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	<title>Comments on: More on the Hoaxing of Keith Windschuttle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/</link>
	<description>Margaret Simons on Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +1100</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; Quadrant Demidenkoed. That is all</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; Quadrant Demidenkoed. That is all</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>[...] While it is tempting for lefties like Margaret Simons and the LP crew to engage in some schadenfreude, and they&#8217;re probably entitled to their fun [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] While it is tempting for lefties like Margaret Simons and the LP crew to engage in some schadenfreude, and they&#8217;re probably entitled to their fun [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Crikey! [required reading] - de minimis ago curat blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>Crikey! [required reading] - de minimis ago curat blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-647</guid>
		<description>[...] any line of argument as long as it fits in with their particular paradigm or ideology.  Simons puts it like this: The sting of this hoax as I understand it is to establish that despite its attacks on post-modern [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] any line of argument as long as it fits in with their particular paradigm or ideology.  Simons puts it like this: The sting of this hoax as I understand it is to establish that despite its attacks on post-modern [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Tourism Queensland admits: The Reef video was a fake that took in AAP &#171; mUmBRELLA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Tourism Queensland admits: The Reef video was a fake that took in AAP &#171; mUmBRELLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-325</guid>
		<description>[...] main shareholders are News Ltd and Fairfax. As Crikey&#8217;s Margaret Simons revealed less than a fortnight ago, the hoax is not the first one to hit Australian media this year. Quadrant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] main shareholders are News Ltd and Fairfax. As Crikey&#8217;s Margaret Simons revealed less than a fortnight ago, the hoax is not the first one to hit Australian media this year. Quadrant [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: DR MUMBO&#8217;S DIARY: Hoax is good news for Quadrant sales &#171; mUmBRELLA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>DR MUMBO&#8217;S DIARY: Hoax is good news for Quadrant sales &#171; mUmBRELLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-291</guid>
		<description>[...] a comment &#187;  The story of the hoaxing of Quadrant magazine, which was broken by Crikey&#8217;s Margaret Simons, may have been embarrassing for the publication, but it&#8217;s been great for sales. Newsagents [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] a comment &raquo;  The story of the hoaxing of Quadrant magazine, which was broken by Crikey&#8217;s Margaret Simons, may have been embarrassing for the publication, but it&#8217;s been great for sales. Newsagents [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Marohasy &#187; Magazine Duped by anti-GM Activist – A Case of More of the Same</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Marohasy &#187; Magazine Duped by anti-GM Activist – A Case of More of the Same</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-239</guid>
		<description>[...] and The Age newspapers without explicit condemnation and incredible that online news service Crikey has actually promoted the hoax as a public [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] and The Age newspapers without explicit condemnation and incredible that online news service Crikey has actually promoted the hoax as a public [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: The Australian Conservative &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Journalism the loser in Quadrant con</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>The Australian Conservative &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Journalism the loser in Quadrant con</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-217</guid>
		<description>[...] Simons&#8217; blog is interesting. On Tuesday Simons was boasting, &#8220;I had the lead story in Crikey today &#8230; Depending on how long the silly season is this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] Simons&#8217; blog is interesting. On Tuesday Simons was boasting, &#8220;I had the lead story in Crikey today &#8230; Depending on how long the silly season is this [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Margaret Simons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret Simons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-177</guid>
		<description>More from John Craig:
Further to my earlier email on &#039;Fraud in Science&#039; and your response (see below), I have also reproduced here the discussion of the &#039;hoaxing of Keith Windschuttle&#039; from your Crikey blog and would like to try to add value to your argument in terms of the nature and significance of public &#039;truth&#039;. I have also highlighted in it what seem to be your key points, namely that:
a distinction is vital between a fraud and a hoax - in that the former involves personal gain while a hoax (such as that perpetrated on Windshuttle)  is motivated by mockery or mischief; 
stings in the hoax were that: (a) those, such as Windschuttle, who have criticised post-modern / academic slackness could be deceived by pseudo-scientific nonsense that they find ideologically attractive; and the hoax impacts on the dispute between those who suggest that all research is affected by its social and political context, and others who suggest that science should be above this.
 
However the distinction you suggest between an (acceptable) hoax and an (evil) fraud seems a bit arbitrary, as &#039;Sharon&#039; would surely not have bothered trying to make a mockery of Windschuttle via a &#039;hoax&#039; unless &#039;she&#039; thought that &#039;she&#039; would gain some sort of personal benefit by doing so. 
 
Moreover the biggest sting is that &#039;Sharon&#039; (whether through a scientific hoax or a scientific fraud) has illustrated the very real philosophical problems which relate to post-modern theory and the credibility of science which, as I understand it, Windshuttle has been trying to highlight. &#039;She&#039; has simply provided further evidence of a critical problem, which is presumably not at all what &#039;she&#039; intended to do.  
 
The Credibility of Science
 
My earlier email regarding your Crikey article (which is reproduced below) referred to the damage scientific fraud does to the credibility of science - and I can&#039;t see that scientific &#039;hoaxes&#039; are less damaging. 
 
Science is important to our ability to cope with humanity&#039;s current challenges - through providing evidence-based understanding of the natural world that is critical (for example) in developing technologies that might provide alternative energy sources or prevent epidemics caused by antibiotic resistant bacteria.
 
However the process of science is imperfect. One of the failings long recognised in the philosophy of science is the &#039;theory dependence of observations&#039; - in other words people usually see only what conforms with their preconceptions. &#039;Sharon&#039; has provided a practical illustration of this through a hoax that trivialized the problem of preconceptions presumably without recognising that it has real-world importance. An example of its importance is that anthropogenic preconceptions have apparently dominated the IPCC in seeking to explain climate change - and thus left a dangerous uncertainty about whether current political proposals regarding greenhouse gas emissions are a &#039;storm in a teacup&#039; or a grossly inadequate reaction to pending disaster. 
 
The inability of human beings to see past their preconceptions is not the only structural difficulty in the progress of science (eg see others mentioned in &#039;Competing Civilizations&#039;). 
 
The Politicisation of Knowledge
 
Furthermore it is not only in science&#039;s attempt to understand the world that people have trouble with knowledge. Limits to rationality are recognised: in management theories;  by economists in justifying the creation of a market economy; and by students of public administration observing the counter-intuitive responses of complex social systems to &#039;rational&#039; public policy. Moreover some knowledge is simply arbitrary (eg whether it is correct to drive on the left or right hand side of the road). And though faith in knowledge has been critical to the organisation and success of Western societies (through trusting individual rationality), quite different assumptions have prevailed in societies that lack the West&#039;s classical Greek heritage (eg in East Asia). 
 
Given the limitations of human knowledge, some have &#039;thrown the baby out with the bathwater&#039; and declared, in effect, that all knowledge is arbitrary - a product of social circumstances and what political elites perceive to be advantageous to themselves.  Such &#039;post-modern&#039; assumptions, which Windshuttle has apparently been seeking to criticise and &#039;Sharon&#039; was apparently trying to justify by showing that Windschuttle could be fooled by &#039;make-believe&#039; knowledge, have very damaging consequences. 
 
Examples of post-modern-sourced damage to societies like Australia&#039;s are suggested in Competing Civilizations. These include: devaluation and erosion of the practical knowledge and experience required for effective government; eroding the foundations of individual liberty - namely the confidence that authorities have had in the socially-constructive behaviour of individuals; and undermining the notion of public truth which is critical to meaningful political debate - and thus to democracy. 
 
&#039;Make-believe&#039; advanced knowledge is now not only being used in Australia to fool Keith Windschuttle. It is being used by populists to fool community opinion-leaders as the basis for gaining political power (eg see An Alternative to Market Fundamentalism?) in much the same way that highly-educated non-democratic elites have traditionally maintained control in East Asia.   
 
As noted above, &#039;Sharon&#039; has merely illustrated and trivialized a problem that requires much more serious attention.
 
I have no objection if you wish to reproduce the above on your blog.
 
Regards
 
John Craig
 
Centre for Policy and Development Systems     
CPDS supports leaders developing enterprise, economic, community and governance systems</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More from John Craig:<br />
Further to my earlier email on &#8216;Fraud in Science&#8217; and your response (see below), I have also reproduced here the discussion of the &#8216;hoaxing of Keith Windschuttle&#8217; from your Crikey blog and would like to try to add value to your argument in terms of the nature and significance of public &#8216;truth&#8217;. I have also highlighted in it what seem to be your key points, namely that:<br />
a distinction is vital between a fraud and a hoax &#8211; in that the former involves personal gain while a hoax (such as that perpetrated on Windshuttle)  is motivated by mockery or mischief;<br />
stings in the hoax were that: (a) those, such as Windschuttle, who have criticised post-modern / academic slackness could be deceived by pseudo-scientific nonsense that they find ideologically attractive; and the hoax impacts on the dispute between those who suggest that all research is affected by its social and political context, and others who suggest that science should be above this.</p>
<p>However the distinction you suggest between an (acceptable) hoax and an (evil) fraud seems a bit arbitrary, as &#8216;Sharon&#8217; would surely not have bothered trying to make a mockery of Windschuttle via a &#8216;hoax&#8217; unless &#8217;she&#8217; thought that &#8217;she&#8217; would gain some sort of personal benefit by doing so. </p>
<p>Moreover the biggest sting is that &#8216;Sharon&#8217; (whether through a scientific hoax or a scientific fraud) has illustrated the very real philosophical problems which relate to post-modern theory and the credibility of science which, as I understand it, Windshuttle has been trying to highlight. &#8216;She&#8217; has simply provided further evidence of a critical problem, which is presumably not at all what &#8217;she&#8217; intended to do.  </p>
<p>The Credibility of Science</p>
<p>My earlier email regarding your Crikey article (which is reproduced below) referred to the damage scientific fraud does to the credibility of science &#8211; and I can&#8217;t see that scientific &#8216;hoaxes&#8217; are less damaging. </p>
<p>Science is important to our ability to cope with humanity&#8217;s current challenges &#8211; through providing evidence-based understanding of the natural world that is critical (for example) in developing technologies that might provide alternative energy sources or prevent epidemics caused by antibiotic resistant bacteria.</p>
<p>However the process of science is imperfect. One of the failings long recognised in the philosophy of science is the &#8216;theory dependence of observations&#8217; &#8211; in other words people usually see only what conforms with their preconceptions. &#8216;Sharon&#8217; has provided a practical illustration of this through a hoax that trivialized the problem of preconceptions presumably without recognising that it has real-world importance. An example of its importance is that anthropogenic preconceptions have apparently dominated the IPCC in seeking to explain climate change &#8211; and thus left a dangerous uncertainty about whether current political proposals regarding greenhouse gas emissions are a &#8217;storm in a teacup&#8217; or a grossly inadequate reaction to pending disaster. </p>
<p>The inability of human beings to see past their preconceptions is not the only structural difficulty in the progress of science (eg see others mentioned in &#8216;Competing Civilizations&#8217;). </p>
<p>The Politicisation of Knowledge</p>
<p>Furthermore it is not only in science&#8217;s attempt to understand the world that people have trouble with knowledge. Limits to rationality are recognised: in management theories;  by economists in justifying the creation of a market economy; and by students of public administration observing the counter-intuitive responses of complex social systems to &#8216;rational&#8217; public policy. Moreover some knowledge is simply arbitrary (eg whether it is correct to drive on the left or right hand side of the road). And though faith in knowledge has been critical to the organisation and success of Western societies (through trusting individual rationality), quite different assumptions have prevailed in societies that lack the West&#8217;s classical Greek heritage (eg in East Asia). </p>
<p>Given the limitations of human knowledge, some have &#8216;thrown the baby out with the bathwater&#8217; and declared, in effect, that all knowledge is arbitrary &#8211; a product of social circumstances and what political elites perceive to be advantageous to themselves.  Such &#8216;post-modern&#8217; assumptions, which Windshuttle has apparently been seeking to criticise and &#8216;Sharon&#8217; was apparently trying to justify by showing that Windschuttle could be fooled by &#8216;make-believe&#8217; knowledge, have very damaging consequences. </p>
<p>Examples of post-modern-sourced damage to societies like Australia&#8217;s are suggested in Competing Civilizations. These include: devaluation and erosion of the practical knowledge and experience required for effective government; eroding the foundations of individual liberty &#8211; namely the confidence that authorities have had in the socially-constructive behaviour of individuals; and undermining the notion of public truth which is critical to meaningful political debate &#8211; and thus to democracy. </p>
<p>&#8216;Make-believe&#8217; advanced knowledge is now not only being used in Australia to fool Keith Windschuttle. It is being used by populists to fool community opinion-leaders as the basis for gaining political power (eg see An Alternative to Market Fundamentalism?) in much the same way that highly-educated non-democratic elites have traditionally maintained control in East Asia.   </p>
<p>As noted above, &#8216;Sharon&#8217; has merely illustrated and trivialized a problem that requires much more serious attention.</p>
<p>I have no objection if you wish to reproduce the above on your blog.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>John Craig</p>
<p>Centre for Policy and Development Systems<br />
CPDS supports leaders developing enterprise, economic, community and governance systems</p>
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		<title>By: kayt davies</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>kayt davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-173</guid>
		<description>I know I should just drop this but .... for anyone else who, like Mark, who thinks the topic is just so wacky it could never be the subject of a serious article check these that are all a bit dated now (opening questions about more recent developments):

About chimera research legislation in the UK circa 2006:
http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/life_sciences/report-68747.html
and 
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/uc1308-i/uc130802.htm

Legislation in the US 2005:

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.659:
http://www.njrtl.org/core/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=810

and work being done right here in Australia:
http://www.biotechnologynews.net/storyview.asp?storyid=64647&amp;sectionsource=s0&amp;highlight=animal

(and these took a whole 2 minutes to find!)

Sorry I&#039;m not being a good sport and laughing along with y&#039;all, it just doesn&#039;t seem that funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I should just drop this but &#8230;. for anyone else who, like Mark, who thinks the topic is just so wacky it could never be the subject of a serious article check these that are all a bit dated now (opening questions about more recent developments):</p>
<p>About chimera research legislation in the UK circa 2006:<br />
<a href="http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/life_sciences/report-68747.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/life_sciences/report-68747.html</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/uc1308-i/uc130802.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/uc1308-i/uc130802.htm</a></p>
<p>Legislation in the US 2005:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.659" rel="nofollow">http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.659</a>:<br />
<a href="http://www.njrtl.org/core/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=810" rel="nofollow">http://www.njrtl.org/core/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=810</a></p>
<p>and work being done right here in Australia:<br />
<a href="http://www.biotechnologynews.net/storyview.asp?storyid=64647&amp;sectionsource=s0&amp;highlight=animal" rel="nofollow">http://www.biotechnologynews.net/storyview.asp?storyid=64647&amp;sectionsource=s0&amp;highlight=animal</a></p>
<p>(and these took a whole 2 minutes to find!)</p>
<p>Sorry I&#8217;m not being a good sport and laughing along with y&#8217;all, it just doesn&#8217;t seem that funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret Simons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret Simons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-171</guid>
		<description>The following correspondence from John Craig (published with permission):


It is rather a pity to imply that there is virtue in dishonesty - as your recent Crikey article seemed to imply about an allegedly scientific article by one Sharon Gould.  

Fraud in science seems to be a major problem, and to discredit what some see as a major hope for humanity&#039;s future. Google &#039;scientific fraud&#039; and see. For example:

Global Trend: More Science, More Fraud - New York Times  
Scientists Vow To Crack Down On Science Fraud   
The Great Betrayal: Fraud in Science: Horace Freeland ...  
New rules proposed to catch science fraud - science-in-society ... 
Corrupted Science: Fraud, Ideology and Politics in Science: John ...   
Likewise, while con men may be heroes in movies like The Sting, in real life those who are caught are usually sent to jail. And very few people admire regimes that use deceptive propaganda to mislead their subjects. Telling the simple truth has been a traditional Western virtue (eg see Matthew 5:37). 

I guess &#039;Sharon Gould&#039; will be too embarrassed to apologize. 

Regards

 

John Craig

 

Centre for Policy and Development Systems     

CPDS supports leaders developing enterprise, economic, community and governance systems</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following correspondence from John Craig (published with permission):</p>
<p>It is rather a pity to imply that there is virtue in dishonesty &#8211; as your recent Crikey article seemed to imply about an allegedly scientific article by one Sharon Gould.  </p>
<p>Fraud in science seems to be a major problem, and to discredit what some see as a major hope for humanity&#8217;s future. Google &#8217;scientific fraud&#8217; and see. For example:</p>
<p>Global Trend: More Science, More Fraud &#8211; New York Times<br />
Scientists Vow To Crack Down On Science Fraud<br />
The Great Betrayal: Fraud in Science: Horace Freeland &#8230;<br />
New rules proposed to catch science fraud &#8211; science-in-society &#8230;<br />
Corrupted Science: Fraud, Ideology and Politics in Science: John &#8230;<br />
Likewise, while con men may be heroes in movies like The Sting, in real life those who are caught are usually sent to jail. And very few people admire regimes that use deceptive propaganda to mislead their subjects. Telling the simple truth has been a traditional Western virtue (eg see Matthew 5:37). </p>
<p>I guess &#8216;Sharon Gould&#8217; will be too embarrassed to apologize. </p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>John Craig</p>
<p>Centre for Policy and Development Systems     </p>
<p>CPDS supports leaders developing enterprise, economic, community and governance systems</p>
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		<title>By: marklatham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/06/more-on-the-hoaxing-of-keith-windschuttle/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>marklatham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/?p=247#comment-168</guid>
		<description>Dont get off your bike,kayt.
Surely editors should be suspicious of articles like the hoaxers?
Or are they only vigilant on april the first?
Keith must have been enjoying his christmas cheer too much not to have checked anything.
Lazy.lazy,lazy editor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dont get off your bike,kayt.<br />
Surely editors should be suspicious of articles like the hoaxers?<br />
Or are they only vigilant on april the first?<br />
Keith must have been enjoying his christmas cheer too much not to have checked anything.<br />
Lazy.lazy,lazy editor.</p>
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