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	<title>Comments on: Children in the Senate chamber: a Crikey cage match</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/</link>
	<description>a blog from the newsroom</description>
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		<title>By: Justin-Paul Sammons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-2/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin-Paul Sammons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-338</guid>
		<description>Peachlives:

How can it be a stunt if Senator Hanson-Young was not expecting Kora to be removed from the chamber? No one had taken issue with her bringing Kora in for the odd division in the past, so there was no reason for her to assume someone would take issue with it now. Where is the evidence that this was pre-mediated? If it was, then Senator Hogg must have been a willing participant as well. Are you suggesting this?

Here&#039;s Senator Hanson-Young&#039;s account of the situation, which I&#039;d say is more reliable than Barnaby Joyce&#039;s (one of the first to brand it a &#039;stunt&#039;), who wasn&#039;t in the chamber at the time of the incident (check Hansard if you like - 18 June, page 84).

http://sarah-hanson-young.greensmps.org.au/content/speech/debate-standing-order-respect-visitors-senate-floor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peachlives:</p>
<p>How can it be a stunt if Senator Hanson-Young was not expecting Kora to be removed from the chamber? No one had taken issue with her bringing Kora in for the odd division in the past, so there was no reason for her to assume someone would take issue with it now. Where is the evidence that this was pre-mediated? If it was, then Senator Hogg must have been a willing participant as well. Are you suggesting this?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s Senator Hanson-Young&#8217;s account of the situation, which I&#8217;d say is more reliable than Barnaby Joyce&#8217;s (one of the first to brand it a &#8217;stunt&#8217;), who wasn&#8217;t in the chamber at the time of the incident (check Hansard if you like &#8211; 18 June, page 84).</p>
<p><a href="http://sarah-hanson-young.greensmps.org.au/content/speech/debate-standing-order-respect-visitors-senate-floor" rel="nofollow">http://sarah-hanson-young.greensmps.org.au/content/speech/debate-standing-order-respect-visitors-senate-floor</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom McLoughlin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-2/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom McLoughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-337</guid>
		<description>Hurray for former Senator Andrew Bartlett, a voice of experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hurray for former Senator Andrew Bartlett, a voice of experience.</p>
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		<title>By: peachlives</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-2/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>peachlives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Justin-Paul:

So she&#039;s done it a few times, sure, doesn&#039;t mean anything.
The fact (as you request) remains that this has grabbed the media&#039;s attention, which is exactly what was wanted, whether it was this time or the last is irrelevant. 

Here here to Andrew Lewis - she cannot devote herself entirely to both roles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin-Paul:</p>
<p>So she&#8217;s done it a few times, sure, doesn&#8217;t mean anything.<br />
The fact (as you request) remains that this has grabbed the media&#8217;s attention, which is exactly what was wanted, whether it was this time or the last is irrelevant. </p>
<p>Here here to Andrew Lewis &#8211; she cannot devote herself entirely to both roles.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Lewis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-2/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-335</guid>
		<description>The greater concern for me is the lack of organisation of Ms Hanson-Young.

Children in the workplace is both humanising and awkward.  Humanising to all, distracting to most, productivity-challenging to all.

Kids should be welcome on special occasions, and a vote in the senate is neither here nor there, but the expectations of Eva Cox and others that &quot;workplaces need to be as permeable as homes: we now are on call at home 24/7 so why not have children in the workplace?&quot;  will just lead to homes becoming workplaces rather than workplaces becoming homes.

The separation between home and workplace needs to be guarded jealously, not because it harms the workplace, but because it destroys the home.

The idea that a parliamentarian, someone allegedly working 70 hour weeks, can be a &#039;primary care-giver&#039; is a non-sequitur.  It doesn&#039;t matter whether you are male or female; mathematics and an apparent inability to transcend time means that you are not &#039;primary&#039; at that point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The greater concern for me is the lack of organisation of Ms Hanson-Young.</p>
<p>Children in the workplace is both humanising and awkward.  Humanising to all, distracting to most, productivity-challenging to all.</p>
<p>Kids should be welcome on special occasions, and a vote in the senate is neither here nor there, but the expectations of Eva Cox and others that &#8220;workplaces need to be as permeable as homes: we now are on call at home 24/7 so why not have children in the workplace?&#8221;  will just lead to homes becoming workplaces rather than workplaces becoming homes.</p>
<p>The separation between home and workplace needs to be guarded jealously, not because it harms the workplace, but because it destroys the home.</p>
<p>The idea that a parliamentarian, someone allegedly working 70 hour weeks, can be a &#8216;primary care-giver&#8217; is a non-sequitur.  It doesn&#8217;t matter whether you are male or female; mathematics and an apparent inability to transcend time means that you are not &#8216;primary&#8217; at that point.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin-Paul Sammons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-2/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin-Paul Sammons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-334</guid>
		<description>To those supporting Barnaby Joyce&#039;s accusations of this being a &quot;stunt&quot;: how do you explain the fact that Sarah Hanson-Young has brought Kora into divisions on several occasions in the past without incident? Shows how often Senator Joyce was in the chamber for a vote, doesn&#039;t it? Never let the facts ruin a good story, eh?

I&#039;m horrified at the levels of misogyny and child-hatred I&#039;ve seen in comments threads in every single media outlet I&#039;ve visited, and I&#039;m starting to wonder how much of this is partisan as I can&#039;t imagine so much hatred by so many people being directed at a Labor or Liberal MP for doing the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those supporting Barnaby Joyce&#8217;s accusations of this being a &#8220;stunt&#8221;: how do you explain the fact that Sarah Hanson-Young has brought Kora into divisions on several occasions in the past without incident? Shows how often Senator Joyce was in the chamber for a vote, doesn&#8217;t it? Never let the facts ruin a good story, eh?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m horrified at the levels of misogyny and child-hatred I&#8217;ve seen in comments threads in every single media outlet I&#8217;ve visited, and I&#8217;m starting to wonder how much of this is partisan as I can&#8217;t imagine so much hatred by so many people being directed at a Labor or Liberal MP for doing the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Eloise Keating</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>Eloise Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Question to Helen Razer: Does your definition of &#039;primary care-givers&#039; extend to male parliamentarians as well? Or is there some kind of double-standard at play for women who are elected to our parliaments? To suggest that parliamentarians should not be the primary care-givers of children is absurd. A &#039;primary care-giver&#039; need not be a stay at home parent. And if it is okay for fathers to be parliamentarians, why would it not be okay for mothers? 

It is a sorry state of affairs when female politicians who choose not to have children are subjected to ridicule in the public arena (Julia Gillard anyone), and those who embrace motherhood within the institution of parliament are subjected to the same treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question to Helen Razer: Does your definition of &#8216;primary care-givers&#8217; extend to male parliamentarians as well? Or is there some kind of double-standard at play for women who are elected to our parliaments? To suggest that parliamentarians should not be the primary care-givers of children is absurd. A &#8216;primary care-giver&#8217; need not be a stay at home parent. And if it is okay for fathers to be parliamentarians, why would it not be okay for mothers? </p>
<p>It is a sorry state of affairs when female politicians who choose not to have children are subjected to ridicule in the public arena (Julia Gillard anyone), and those who embrace motherhood within the institution of parliament are subjected to the same treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: peachlives</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-1/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>peachlives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Oh it simply SCREAMS &quot;stunt&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh it simply SCREAMS &#8220;stunt&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Liz45</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-1/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-331</guid>
		<description>Those who castigate this young woman for taking her child into the Senate, and the &#039;precious&#039; environment of the Parliament blah blah are really amazing. There&#039;s no credit to the young Senator, or her appreciation of what was happening at that time. The debate was over; the vote is a precedural matter, and the little cherub was perfectly behaved - until she was separated from her mum. Those like &#039;msbhavn.mama&#039; above me obviously doesn&#039;t listen to Question Time??My kids would&#039;ve been sent to their room or outside if they behaved as badly as these so-called &quot;representatives&quot; do? I often feel embarrassed, and frequently turn them off! I&#039;ve seen preferable behaviour from 2 yr olds.

People in dangerous jobs like policing, or in a power plant etc aren&#039;t advocating bringing their children to work. They have common sense! I take issue with those who allowed the new parliament house to be built without child care facilities - day and night? They frequently sit until late or the wee hours of the following day. There&#039;s no shortage of bars or eating places, a coffee lounge and a well equipped gym. It doesn&#039;t take much to look at the &#039;decision makers&#039; around during the discussion and tendering for the building project? Mostly men, and their wives/partners were safely &#039;stored&#039; at home looking after their children. This is 2009 - it&#039;s time to get with modern thinking, re the needs and responsibilites of parents and of course, their children. I&#039;m glad there&#039;s young mothers in both Houses - if only they were there 20-40 yrs ago - my generation wouldn&#039;t have had to wait this long for education and peoples&#039; needs to catch up with reality. We understand much better now, about the vital early years, for both children and their parents. What&#039;s the point of having the knowledge of the 21st century, and insisting on maintaining the inhumane and dangerous practices of the past. I&#039;d like to see the Federal Government introduce policies, where child minding facilities are to be part of any new workplace, particularly those with large numbers of employees, or big buildings, where the costs could be shared by many companies. 
In the meantime, there should be a creche in Parliament House - get rid of one of the bars if space is a problem?
Good on you Sarah - I look forward to seeing your little one in the Senate again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who castigate this young woman for taking her child into the Senate, and the &#8216;precious&#8217; environment of the Parliament blah blah are really amazing. There&#8217;s no credit to the young Senator, or her appreciation of what was happening at that time. The debate was over; the vote is a precedural matter, and the little cherub was perfectly behaved &#8211; until she was separated from her mum. Those like &#8216;msbhavn.mama&#8217; above me obviously doesn&#8217;t listen to Question Time??My kids would&#8217;ve been sent to their room or outside if they behaved as badly as these so-called &#8220;representatives&#8221; do? I often feel embarrassed, and frequently turn them off! I&#8217;ve seen preferable behaviour from 2 yr olds.</p>
<p>People in dangerous jobs like policing, or in a power plant etc aren&#8217;t advocating bringing their children to work. They have common sense! I take issue with those who allowed the new parliament house to be built without child care facilities &#8211; day and night? They frequently sit until late or the wee hours of the following day. There&#8217;s no shortage of bars or eating places, a coffee lounge and a well equipped gym. It doesn&#8217;t take much to look at the &#8216;decision makers&#8217; around during the discussion and tendering for the building project? Mostly men, and their wives/partners were safely &#8217;stored&#8217; at home looking after their children. This is 2009 &#8211; it&#8217;s time to get with modern thinking, re the needs and responsibilites of parents and of course, their children. I&#8217;m glad there&#8217;s young mothers in both Houses &#8211; if only they were there 20-40 yrs ago &#8211; my generation wouldn&#8217;t have had to wait this long for education and peoples&#8217; needs to catch up with reality. We understand much better now, about the vital early years, for both children and their parents. What&#8217;s the point of having the knowledge of the 21st century, and insisting on maintaining the inhumane and dangerous practices of the past. I&#8217;d like to see the Federal Government introduce policies, where child minding facilities are to be part of any new workplace, particularly those with large numbers of employees, or big buildings, where the costs could be shared by many companies.<br />
In the meantime, there should be a creche in Parliament House &#8211; get rid of one of the bars if space is a problem?<br />
Good on you Sarah &#8211; I look forward to seeing your little one in the Senate again!</p>
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		<title>By: msbhavn.mama</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>msbhavn.mama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-330</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t about the Senator or her kid. This is about the voters of South Australia who are entitled to expect their senator to give her undivided attention to her duties in the Senate whenever it is sitting. The aide who took the child out could just as easily have held her until the Senator completed her duties. The Senate is delicately balanced on most issues and we don&#039;t need re-votes being demanded because some Senator was hunting for a dummy under her seat when she should have been paying attention to the matters at hand. This isn&#039;t a feminist issue. It isn&#039;t a parenting issue. It isn&#039;t an employment issue. It is a duty-to-democracy issue for an elected representative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t about the Senator or her kid. This is about the voters of South Australia who are entitled to expect their senator to give her undivided attention to her duties in the Senate whenever it is sitting. The aide who took the child out could just as easily have held her until the Senator completed her duties. The Senate is delicately balanced on most issues and we don&#8217;t need re-votes being demanded because some Senator was hunting for a dummy under her seat when she should have been paying attention to the matters at hand. This isn&#8217;t a feminist issue. It isn&#8217;t a parenting issue. It isn&#8217;t an employment issue. It is a duty-to-democracy issue for an elected representative.</p>
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		<title>By: davoid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/2009/06/19/children-in-the-senate-chamber-a-crikey-cage-match/comment-page-1/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>davoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/crikey/?p=1084#comment-329</guid>
		<description>I would not want my therapist to have their crying toddler in the room with us. Nor my GP nor lawyer if the matter was complex and requiring concentration. Nor an anaesthetist, structural engineer, judge, barrister etc etc etc. Including lawmaker. But for many other occupations it&#039;s just fine. If you have a toddler, the chances are it will become bored and require attention and may signal as much by crying. Don&#039;t bring the child to work if you can&#039;t discharge your responsibilities under these circumstances. Male or female, it doesn&#039;t make any difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not want my therapist to have their crying toddler in the room with us. Nor my GP nor lawyer if the matter was complex and requiring concentration. Nor an anaesthetist, structural engineer, judge, barrister etc etc etc. Including lawmaker. But for many other occupations it&#8217;s just fine. If you have a toddler, the chances are it will become bored and require attention and may signal as much by crying. Don&#8217;t bring the child to work if you can&#8217;t discharge your responsibilities under these circumstances. Male or female, it doesn&#8217;t make any difference.</p>
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