Qantas to shrink but refurbish 767 fleet
Not going away any day soon, a Qantas 767-300ER
Qantas has confirmed the departure of seven of its 23 aging Boeing 767-300ER jets in a refurbishment program that will renew the interior of the remaining 16 of the type from October.
The statement doesn’t clarify the fate of the few remaining international services flown by the current 767 fleet, but the reworked jets will no doubt be valued by many Qantas flyers, as there is nothing as comfortable in a wide-body domestic jet cabin in economy class, including in the few international 747s that also operate some Perth transcontinental services, compared to the seven across seating found in these jets.
The issue for Qantas will be the added cost of keeping 767s in service way beyond their use-by date, which was to be by 2010 when the airline originally ordered the Boeing 787 Dreamliner in December 2005 for delivery from 2008.
But there is nothing ‘use by’ about the actual seating format. If you want the same spacious geometry in a domestic flight in a different type of jet you have to turn to the single aisle shorter range Embraer E-190s flown by Virgin Australia.
The ‘newly re-minted’ 767s will for the airline increasingly use more fuel and more maintenance dollars than newer more efficient designs.
Going on earlier guidance from Qantas, it intends to replace some of its 767 capacity with A330-200s which were transferred to Jetstar and will be returned to the carrier as the low fare subsidiary puts eight 787-8s into service from sometime next year, or, whenever.
With the Jetstar Dreamliners configured for 313 seats, most of them as tiny as the economy seats in a 737, that experience will not be as ‘dreamy’ as a renovated 767, and the same could be said for the returning A330-200s, which are mostly configured for 303 seats although it isn’t clear at this stage what if anything Qantas might do to their interiors to keep them in touch with the older but more human friendly dimensions of the 767.
This is the statement about the 767 refurbishment from Qantas.
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I suspect that the 7 planes to be sold off /ferried to the Mojave desert will be the 767-336 aircraft VH ZXA- ZXG. These are the 767′s obtained from British Airways about twelve years ago. They have slightly lower seating capacity than the 767-338s.
Qantas has sold off another 6 767-338′s in the last year or so , VH-OGA to VH-OGF, which were the first ones it bought new in the late 80′s. Several of these according to aussieairliners.org have been sent to Tel Aviv for conversion to freighters.
Contemporary design interiors might look nice, but I would be more concerned with the aging airframes and components
by nonscenic on Aug 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm
nonscenic,
I suspect you are correct. Qantas leased all 7 767s from British Airways in mid-2000 and they progressively entered service with Qantas between August and November 2000. Unlike the remaining 16 Qantas 767s, these are powered by Rolls Royce RB211 engines which I understand are heavier (and less fuel efficient) than the General Electric engines fitted on the rest of the Qantas fleet.
Also, because the ex-BA aircraft have 8 exit doors (as opposed to the 4 doors and 4 over wing hatches on the Qantas aircraft) these aircraft require a minimum of 8 flight attendants on every flight (one per door). This also means the seating configuration on these aircraft is 244 passengers, 10 less than on the GE powered 767s configured for domestic operations.
The extra weight, poorer fuel efficiency, higher number of minimum flight crew and fewer seats meant that these aircraft were living on borrowed time. The oldest of these planes (VH ZXA) first flew for BA in March 1990 and the newest (VH ZXG) in February 1992.
by FlyLo on Aug 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm
My understanding is that 3 spool engines like the RB211 type are lighter than 2 spool engines that GE makes. Newer engines are generally more fuel efficient but I would be surprised if GE was making turbofans that were more fuel efficient as well- all things being equal.
by ghostwhowalksnz on Aug 21, 2012 at 9:31 am
ghostwhowalksnz,
These are the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets for the RB211 engine (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/78635932a4cb7e7b862572a70057e006/$FILE/E30NE.pdf) and the GE CF6 engine (http://www.aftd.com/TCDS_PDFS/E13NE_20.pdf). The RB211 is much, much heavier than any variant of the GE engine.
I remember when Qantas bought second-hand 747s, one from Asiana Airlines (a 747-48E registered as VH OEB) and two Malaysia Airlines’ 747-4H6 (registered as VH OEC and OED) during the Asian financial crisis (the three “ugly sisters” as they became known). These are all GE powered aircraft and Qantas found the power to weight ratio performance to be significantly better than on its RR powered 747s.
These three aircraft remain in service with Qantas and were supplemented by the purchase of 6 747-438ER aircraft from 2002 to 2003 (VH OEE to VH OEJ) all with GE engines. These aircraft are used almost exclusively on the Pacific routes as they have better range than RR powered 747s.
Back to the 767, when these aircraft were first introduced into the fleet, Qantas prepared a document summarising the differences of the ex-British Airways’ 767s to the standard Qantas 767 (http://theoldfields.name/Michaelftp/Documents/Flying/Qantas/767%20Gouge%20CD/767%20Good%20Oil/captain%20notes/Command%20Training%20CD/767/Summary%20of%20Differences%20767-336.pdf). I found it interesting.
The picture at the top of Ben’s story is one of the ex BA aircraft likely to be retired. I understand the current leases run out on these aircraft (VH ZXA to ZXG) next year.
by FlyLo on Aug 21, 2012 at 11:08 am
I always try to get the 767 flight from Cairns/Syd. The good old 767 has about 30 kts (and more space) over the 737′s.
This equates to about 20 minutes time saved on the sector.
by Glenn Dunstan on Aug 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Ben, photos are here:
http://australianaviation.com.au/2012/08/qantas-767s-to-get-new-interiors-ipads/
Looks superb.
by ChrisCunard on Aug 21, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Lipstick on the pig. It won’t make the 767′s any more reliable nor will it change the fact that these are very old aircraft compared with what the opposition are flying.
by Goat Guy on Aug 21, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Just going to put it out there that all the ex BA 767s are now owned by Qantas. Anyone who suggests they will be retired because the lease will expire is incorrect. Sorry.
by ButFli on Aug 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm
I really think these 767 are older than I’d like to fly on. It’s not the decor but the metal fatigue I’m concerned about. Not a likely thing to happen but the creak and groan of the planes is not pleasant.
by Zarathrusta on Aug 22, 2012 at 1:04 am
This is typical of the ‘why do today, what we may not need to do tomorrow’ Joyce plan.
by TN Kangaroo (Blue Tail) on Aug 22, 2012 at 6:17 am
Flylo would a appreciate a working link to the difference document that you mention, the link included does not work.
by Kapo on Aug 23, 2012 at 6:24 am
Kapo, thanks for letting me know there are problems with the link. Try this instead http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/8/24/3340272/Summary%20of%20Differences%20767-336.pdf
by FlyLo on Aug 24, 2012 at 2:56 pm