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	<title>Comments on: Dreamliners: A failure of effective public administration?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/</link>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15306</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 01:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15306</guid>
		<description>Well said, Ben! Even more generally, I think there is a general lack of appreciation and understanding of the need for assessment and review by expert, professional and DISINTERESTED (look it up, people!) parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Ben! Even more generally, I think there is a general lack of appreciation and understanding of the need for assessment and review by expert, professional and DISINTERESTED (look it up, people!) parties.</p>
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		<title>By: marple</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15304</link>
		<dc:creator>marple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15304</guid>
		<description>What do Enron, CASA, European &quot;beef&quot;, B787s, Qantas and NSW coal mining leases have in common? Self regulation is also the descriptor for taking laxatives; and the results of doing either to excess are excrement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do Enron, CASA, European &#8220;beef&#8221;, B787s, Qantas and NSW coal mining leases have in common? Self regulation is also the descriptor for taking laxatives; and the results of doing either to excess are excrement.</p>
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		<title>By: keesje</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15303</link>
		<dc:creator>keesje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15303</guid>
		<description>The total 787 story is covered and traceable on internet, by everybody. All the rush, dissidents, public statements, its all under our fingertips.

My gut feeling is the unlaying root cause lays a decade back. The 9-11 trauma, with or against us, Airbus taking over #1spot, A380, tanker fraud

A leap forward was required and everyone rallied behind the Boeing flag to show them, using world class innovation and american excellence, restoring the greatest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The total 787 story is covered and traceable on internet, by everybody. All the rush, dissidents, public statements, its all under our fingertips.</p>
<p>My gut feeling is the unlaying root cause lays a decade back. The 9-11 trauma, with or against us, Airbus taking over #1spot, A380, tanker fraud</p>
<p>A leap forward was required and everyone rallied behind the Boeing flag to show them, using world class innovation and american excellence, restoring the greatest.</p>
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		<title>By: comet</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15302</link>
		<dc:creator>comet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15302</guid>
		<description>The purpose of corporations is to make money, not to do acts for the pubic good. This makes corporate behaviour clinically identical to that of the psychopath. This is why corporations need regulation.

The irony is that corporations are usually better off long-term with good government regulation. The banking industry is an example. Boeing is another example. If Boeing was better regulated over the past fifteen years by the FAA, then Boeing would be better off today.

But now Boeing is in a mess. Who knows, maybe it will do OK with the revamped 777 (which according to Reuters information is coming soon).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The purpose of corporations is to make money, not to do acts for the pubic good. This makes corporate behaviour clinically identical to that of the psychopath. This is why corporations need regulation.</p>
<p>The irony is that corporations are usually better off long-term with good government regulation. The banking industry is an example. Boeing is another example. If Boeing was better regulated over the past fifteen years by the FAA, then Boeing would be better off today.</p>
<p>But now Boeing is in a mess. Who knows, maybe it will do OK with the revamped 777 (which according to Reuters information is coming soon).</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Mullin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15301</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Mullin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15301</guid>
		<description>You are right. But the rot set in a looong time ago. Trouble is that those who warned about it .. were completely ignored.

&quot;Trouble makers&quot;, &quot;communists&#039; or whatever invective came to mind at the time.

Now here we are .. everything breaking down.

Look her are some simple projections of Australian airline trends:

(1) There will be zero Qantas international flights in 5 years.
(2) There will be only Jetstar domestic flights .. until they go bankrupt (5-10 years tops).

Qantas will only be known in aviation history books.

Boeing will pull (be pushed?)out of commercial aviation. Just like McDonnell Douglas (which are now its current management) and Lockheed  to feed on the unlimited trough of US military contracts .. until the US goes broke (just like the USSR did before it).

Someday an Indian/Chinese/etc company will buy the rights to these names (like MG and so on) and Boeing will live on ... maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right. But the rot set in a looong time ago. Trouble is that those who warned about it .. were completely ignored.</p>
<p>&#8220;Trouble makers&#8221;, &#8220;communists&#8217; or whatever invective came to mind at the time.</p>
<p>Now here we are .. everything breaking down.</p>
<p>Look her are some simple projections of Australian airline trends:</p>
<p>(1) There will be zero Qantas international flights in 5 years.<br />
(2) There will be only Jetstar domestic flights .. until they go bankrupt (5-10 years tops).</p>
<p>Qantas will only be known in aviation history books.</p>
<p>Boeing will pull (be pushed?)out of commercial aviation. Just like McDonnell Douglas (which are now its current management) and Lockheed  to feed on the unlimited trough of US military contracts .. until the US goes broke (just like the USSR did before it).</p>
<p>Someday an Indian/Chinese/etc company will buy the rights to these names (like MG and so on) and Boeing will live on &#8230; maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: Rais</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15300</link>
		<dc:creator>Rais</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 04:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15300</guid>
		<description>Stick Shaker said &quot;I don&#039;t see it as a failure of public administration...&quot; - would it have been a failure if one or two of those burning batteries had led to a crash?  In Australia too, government instrumentalities are being gutted to &quot;save money&quot; and resulting incapacity is going to cost money and in some cases lives.  I work in a Federal body whose work saves Australia about 0.5% on overseas loans; as we become more and more crippled by &quot;economies&quot; and &quot;efficiency dividends&quot; overseas lenders are going to wise up and charge us more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stick Shaker said &#8220;I don&#8217;t see it as a failure of public administration&#8230;&#8221; &#8211; would it have been a failure if one or two of those burning batteries had led to a crash?  In Australia too, government instrumentalities are being gutted to &#8220;save money&#8221; and resulting incapacity is going to cost money and in some cases lives.  I work in a Federal body whose work saves Australia about 0.5% on overseas loans; as we become more and more crippled by &#8220;economies&#8221; and &#8220;efficiency dividends&#8221; overseas lenders are going to wise up and charge us more.</p>
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		<title>By: StickShaker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15299</link>
		<dc:creator>StickShaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 03:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15299</guid>
		<description>The aviation equivalent of the non-regulation of the banking sector that led to the GFC would be the scenario where aircraft manufacturers don&#039;t need to certify aircraft at all and the FAA would have no legal powers to issue airworthiness directives or ground aircraft that were deemed unsafe. The current situation with certification of the 787 is nothing on the scale that occurred in the banking sector.

 Aviation is far more visible than the &quot;looter takers&quot; who were doing complex deals in derivatives on the 58th floor in Wall Street and the FAA, despite any shortcomings is still far more vigilant in its governance and oversight than was the US Federal Reserve under Alan Greenspan. In today&#039;s world of instant information and social media there is probably more public pressure on aviation authorities to get it right than ever before.

With the benefit of hindsight the FAA should not have certified the 787 with its Li-Ion batteries in their current form. But neither should the Comet have been certified with its deadly design flaws and neither the DC10 - yet ground breaking technologies such as fly by wire were introduced without issues. New technology will always present challenges in an industry that by its very nature has to push the envelope. 
Deployment of a new battery technology is relatively mild when compared with the other new technology in the 787 and perhaps for that reason it did not receive the attention from the FAA that it deserved. 

The significant embarrassment caused to Boeing and the FAA over the current situation is likely to ensure checks are put in place to prevent a recurrence. I don&#039;t see it as a failure of public administration nor is it analogous to the lack of regulation in the banking sector that led to the GFC. Any form of regulation is a balancing act and from time to time it may require adjustment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The aviation equivalent of the non-regulation of the banking sector that led to the GFC would be the scenario where aircraft manufacturers don&#8217;t need to certify aircraft at all and the FAA would have no legal powers to issue airworthiness directives or ground aircraft that were deemed unsafe. The current situation with certification of the 787 is nothing on the scale that occurred in the banking sector.</p>
<p> Aviation is far more visible than the &#8220;looter takers&#8221; who were doing complex deals in derivatives on the 58th floor in Wall Street and the FAA, despite any shortcomings is still far more vigilant in its governance and oversight than was the US Federal Reserve under Alan Greenspan. In today&#8217;s world of instant information and social media there is probably more public pressure on aviation authorities to get it right than ever before.</p>
<p>With the benefit of hindsight the FAA should not have certified the 787 with its Li-Ion batteries in their current form. But neither should the Comet have been certified with its deadly design flaws and neither the DC10 &#8211; yet ground breaking technologies such as fly by wire were introduced without issues. New technology will always present challenges in an industry that by its very nature has to push the envelope.<br />
Deployment of a new battery technology is relatively mild when compared with the other new technology in the 787 and perhaps for that reason it did not receive the attention from the FAA that it deserved. </p>
<p>The significant embarrassment caused to Boeing and the FAA over the current situation is likely to ensure checks are put in place to prevent a recurrence. I don&#8217;t see it as a failure of public administration nor is it analogous to the lack of regulation in the banking sector that led to the GFC. Any form of regulation is a balancing act and from time to time it may require adjustment.</p>
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		<title>By: TomTom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15298</link>
		<dc:creator>TomTom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 02:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15298</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a real problem: &quot;The FAA is now investigating its past behavior in this matter.&quot; How can FAA be expected to provide a proper investigation of its own &quot;behavior&quot;? There should be a special investigator appointed, akin to a special prosecutor. Of course, with the then-FAA Administrator - who pushed &quot;The airlines and manufacturers are our &#039;customers&#039; so we must be more solicitous and accommodating to them&quot; philosiphy of regulation - now the lead lobbyist for the manufacturers, good luck with that request....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a real problem: &#8220;The FAA is now investigating its past behavior in this matter.&#8221; How can FAA be expected to provide a proper investigation of its own &#8220;behavior&#8221;? There should be a special investigator appointed, akin to a special prosecutor. Of course, with the then-FAA Administrator &#8211; who pushed &#8220;The airlines and manufacturers are our &#8216;customers&#8217; so we must be more solicitous and accommodating to them&#8221; philosiphy of regulation &#8211; now the lead lobbyist for the manufacturers, good luck with that request&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: comet</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15297</link>
		<dc:creator>comet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 01:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15297</guid>
		<description>The neo-conservatives and tea party people love small government. Wasn&#039;t it during the George W Bush era that the FAA was downsized?

The main aim of corporations is to make profits for shareholders. As such, they essentially behave like psychopaths, which is why they need to be regulated for the public good.

In Boeing&#039;s case, engineers are kept beneath multiple levels of non-engineering management. The 747-8 is now taking longer to develop than the original 747, and the 787 is nothing short of a complete and utter disaster. That management has flown the once-great company into the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The neo-conservatives and tea party people love small government. Wasn&#8217;t it during the George W Bush era that the FAA was downsized?</p>
<p>The main aim of corporations is to make profits for shareholders. As such, they essentially behave like psychopaths, which is why they need to be regulated for the public good.</p>
<p>In Boeing&#8217;s case, engineers are kept beneath multiple levels of non-engineering management. The 747-8 is now taking longer to develop than the original 747, and the 787 is nothing short of a complete and utter disaster. That management has flown the once-great company into the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: LongTimeObserver</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/10/dreamliners-a-failure-of-effective-public-administration/comment-page-1/#comment-15296</link>
		<dc:creator>LongTimeObserver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/?p=29186#comment-15296</guid>
		<description>Spot on.  Dereliction.  Thankfully, no one perished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on.  Dereliction.  Thankfully, no one perished.</p>
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