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	<title>Comments on: WA redistributed</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: VPL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19754</link>
		<dc:creator>VPL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19754</guid>
		<description>Ok - some interesting comments.
Of course I&#039;m sure that SOMEONE will object to SOMETHING - they always do! ;-)
That said, I don&#039;t think that there&#039;s lots to object to.
I don&#039;t think that you could really object about Esperance - all the comments and responses I saw from that pretty little corner of the world were in favour of links with Kal and M&amp;P.
The Parliament, by requiring the regions be split according to land use, made this problem for themselves. That was always going to create disparity demographically and geographically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok &#8211; some interesting comments.<br />
Of course I&#8217;m sure that SOMEONE will object to SOMETHING &#8211; they always do! <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-wink.png' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
That said, I don&#8217;t think that there&#8217;s lots to object to.<br />
I don&#8217;t think that you could really object about Esperance &#8211; all the comments and responses I saw from that pretty little corner of the world were in favour of links with Kal and M&amp;P.<br />
The Parliament, by requiring the regions be split according to land use, made this problem for themselves. That was always going to create disparity demographically and geographically.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Proud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19736</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19736</guid>
		<description>Tom, of course giving the Greens more power in the supposedly more powerful house might prompt others to not vote for the greens.  We cannot assume that people vote for the Greens (or any party) solely because they want them to be in government.  Another good reason is to provide a check, which is why the &quot;minor&quot; parties do better in (outside of Tas) the upper houses.

I think Tasmania is also politically different.  For the ALP to get almost 50% and the Greens to get 16% as in 2006 shows a different political complexion to all other states.

Part of the negotiations for the legislative reform package in WA proceeded on an understanding that each house was best to decide how that house was formed.  I would also expect that if the negotiations were looking like a multi member lower house that the Libs would have negotiated an alternative that suits them.  The current system promotes the Nationals and Greens against Labor and the Liberals.  i do believe that this promotion is minor though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, of course giving the Greens more power in the supposedly more powerful house might prompt others to not vote for the greens.  We cannot assume that people vote for the Greens (or any party) solely because they want them to be in government.  Another good reason is to provide a check, which is why the &#8220;minor&#8221; parties do better in (outside of Tas) the upper houses.</p>
<p>I think Tasmania is also politically different.  For the ALP to get almost 50% and the Greens to get 16% as in 2006 shows a different political complexion to all other states.</p>
<p>Part of the negotiations for the legislative reform package in WA proceeded on an understanding that each house was best to decide how that house was formed.  I would also expect that if the negotiations were looking like a multi member lower house that the Libs would have negotiated an alternative that suits them.  The current system promotes the Nationals and Greens against Labor and the Liberals.  i do believe that this promotion is minor though.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19728</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19728</guid>
		<description>The Greens would be in a better position if they had negotiated a change to 9             7-member electorates because it would give them some power over who was in government quite a bit of the time and because giving people the chance to elect the Greens in the more powerful house may cause them to be more likely to vote for them e.g. Tasmania.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Greens would be in a better position if they had negotiated a change to 9             7-member electorates because it would give them some power over who was in government quite a bit of the time and because giving people the chance to elect the Greens in the more powerful house may cause them to be more likely to vote for them e.g. Tasmania.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Proud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19676</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19676</guid>
		<description>The Labor party, according to a report I read online, is considering objecting to matters pertaining to the agricultural boundaries, whether Esperance is considered part of mining and pastoral or not.  Since these regions were introduced, it has always been in the agricultural region. 

The regions are now determined in part by land-use and this could stymie any objections about relative sizes of the regions.  There is no requirement that the regions be equal (outside of the metro area) in numbers of electors or electorates, so there argument would have to be some other argument (maybe demographics).  Half of the south-west electorates are under quota whereas 3 of the four in the slow growing agricultural are under quota.  I think an argument could be made that the agricultural boundary should be shifted - whether east or west, i am uncertain, but it is an argument with merit.

The Liberals will find it hard to object to the northern boundary of Dawesville as their submission has a similar boundary - though more favourable to them.  Their submission included the shire of Waroona - which of course would have increased their margins.  Dawesville is now at 1.7% from 4.1% and this is ordinarily the lowest they would get. 


The commissioners have been prudent in seeking objections, reminding people that an objection to an element of the redistribution requires a solution and they have asked people to come up with a solution that meets the objection.  This makes it harder to say the redistribution is flawed.

The Eastern Metropolitan &quot;problem&quot; for the Liberals is that the region always had some very dense areas of ALP support and usually less strong areas of Liberal support.  With the increase of seats in the area, parts of the ALP support have been joined to the Liberal areas to make marginal Labor seats.  

I think this is more a consequence of what was almost a landslide election in WA terms and the fact that what was once very strong Liberal voting areas are not so dark blue anymore.  In 1996 John Day achieved a 55% 1st primary vote in Darling Range and a 63% 2PP.  In 2001, these had dropped to 36% and 50.3%.  These elections were held under the same boundaries and so are comparable.  

In Roleystone (1996 48%/57%  2001 32% 45%) and Swan Hills (1996 51% / 60% 2001 35% / 48%) the figures are the same.  The Liberals suffered a lot of swings in 2001, but they should never have suffered this in good Liberal areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Labor party, according to a report I read online, is considering objecting to matters pertaining to the agricultural boundaries, whether Esperance is considered part of mining and pastoral or not.  Since these regions were introduced, it has always been in the agricultural region. </p>
<p>The regions are now determined in part by land-use and this could stymie any objections about relative sizes of the regions.  There is no requirement that the regions be equal (outside of the metro area) in numbers of electors or electorates, so there argument would have to be some other argument (maybe demographics).  Half of the south-west electorates are under quota whereas 3 of the four in the slow growing agricultural are under quota.  I think an argument could be made that the agricultural boundary should be shifted &#8211; whether east or west, i am uncertain, but it is an argument with merit.</p>
<p>The Liberals will find it hard to object to the northern boundary of Dawesville as their submission has a similar boundary &#8211; though more favourable to them.  Their submission included the shire of Waroona &#8211; which of course would have increased their margins.  Dawesville is now at 1.7% from 4.1% and this is ordinarily the lowest they would get. </p>
<p>The commissioners have been prudent in seeking objections, reminding people that an objection to an element of the redistribution requires a solution and they have asked people to come up with a solution that meets the objection.  This makes it harder to say the redistribution is flawed.</p>
<p>The Eastern Metropolitan &#8220;problem&#8221; for the Liberals is that the region always had some very dense areas of ALP support and usually less strong areas of Liberal support.  With the increase of seats in the area, parts of the ALP support have been joined to the Liberal areas to make marginal Labor seats.  </p>
<p>I think this is more a consequence of what was almost a landslide election in WA terms and the fact that what was once very strong Liberal voting areas are not so dark blue anymore.  In 1996 John Day achieved a 55% 1st primary vote in Darling Range and a 63% 2PP.  In 2001, these had dropped to 36% and 50.3%.  These elections were held under the same boundaries and so are comparable.  </p>
<p>In Roleystone (1996 48%/57%  2001 32% 45%) and Swan Hills (1996 51% / 60% 2001 35% / 48%) the figures are the same.  The Liberals suffered a lot of swings in 2001, but they should never have suffered this in good Liberal areas.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Q</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19663</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19663</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s going to be objections - whether or not they&#039;re reasonable is anyone&#039;s guess.

The two things I can see triggering objections are the spill of Dawesville over the Mandurah bridge (probably from the Libs) and the relative sizes of the South-West and Agricultural regions (probably from Labor).  The fact that the Libs had two marginals in East Metro and now have none despite their being more actual electorates might make them object to that section of the redraw.  Labor might object to Esperance being in Mining and Pastoral rather than Agricultural (as it makes it impossible for them to win a seat in the South-East)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s going to be objections &#8211; whether or not they&#8217;re reasonable is anyone&#8217;s guess.</p>
<p>The two things I can see triggering objections are the spill of Dawesville over the Mandurah bridge (probably from the Libs) and the relative sizes of the South-West and Agricultural regions (probably from Labor).  The fact that the Libs had two marginals in East Metro and now have none despite their being more actual electorates might make them object to that section of the redraw.  Labor might object to Esperance being in Mining and Pastoral rather than Agricultural (as it makes it impossible for them to win a seat in the South-East)</p>
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		<title>By: VPL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19652</link>
		<dc:creator>VPL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19652</guid>
		<description>Ok - now the boundaries are out.
I think all concerned seem to agree that:
1) they have not been unreasonably drawn, and
2) that they have made things harder for the Libs.
That said, objections are due by 30 July  - does anyone think anyone will lodge objections and, if so, what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok &#8211; now the boundaries are out.<br />
I think all concerned seem to agree that:<br />
1) they have not been unreasonably drawn, and<br />
2) that they have made things harder for the Libs.<br />
That said, objections are due by 30 July  &#8211; does anyone think anyone will lodge objections and, if so, what?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Proud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19555</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19555</guid>
		<description>I suspect the Greens might politically prefer to have their regional system of PR as it will give them more chances to actually have members of parliament.  Their very high level of votes (compared to the ALP) in 2001 meant that they had 5 members in the LC or 2 more than proportionate to their vote.

The new system with 6 members will give them more chances now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the Greens might politically prefer to have their regional system of PR as it will give them more chances to actually have members of parliament.  Their very high level of votes (compared to the ALP) in 2001 meant that they had 5 members in the LC or 2 more than proportionate to their vote.</p>
<p>The new system with 6 members will give them more chances now.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19472</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19472</guid>
		<description>Would the Greens been able to get lower house PR in instead of the six in each region they did get ammended in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would the Greens been able to get lower house PR in instead of the six in each region they did get ammended in.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19268</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19268</guid>
		<description>One thing that is remarkable is the political weight of the &quot;leafy suburbs&quot; has been minimised with only the loss of the northern portion of Chuchlands and West Perth Compared to the Seventies when there were seats such as Floreat, Mount Hawthorn, Subiaco, Nedlands and Cottesloe. with an increase of eletorates of the current redistribution has created the loss of political clout of that area is profound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that is remarkable is the political weight of the &#8220;leafy suburbs&#8221; has been minimised with only the loss of the northern portion of Chuchlands and West Perth Compared to the Seventies when there were seats such as Floreat, Mount Hawthorn, Subiaco, Nedlands and Cottesloe. with an increase of eletorates of the current redistribution has created the loss of political clout of that area is profound.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Proud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/06/29/wa-redistributed/comment-page-2/#comment-19115</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/500#comment-19115</guid>
		<description>Blacklight - it may be hard for the Liberals to accept the nats in coalition if they challenge Omodei in the new seat of (now called) Blackwood-Stirling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blacklight &#8211; it may be hard for the Liberals to accept the nats in coalition if they challenge Omodei in the new seat of (now called) Blackwood-Stirling.</p>
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