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	<title>Comments on: The Australian versus Peter Brent</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19837</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 02:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19837</guid>
		<description>Aristotle - thanks for the reality check.   I

I don&#039;t quite understand invoking the claim that &#039;Labor has only twice been elected from opposition&#039;.   Is it a caveat that these &#039;records&#039; are based only on two samples and hence relatively meaningless?   Or that governments since about the 1920s have been very stable - existential crises (depression, world war) aside - and so we should realise that changes of government are v.unusual?

It is equally true -but rarely noted - that the Liberals have only twice been elected from opposition:   1949 and 1996 (Fraser was caretaker PM in 1975).   

If we need comparative hurdles, why not look at state results?   There we find a similar incumbency advantage across the century, but have a much better range of instances where oppositions have won, especially Labor ones, and we find a much greater spread of results.     I accept the caveat that Labor is more attractive at state level due to focus on services, and less so at federal level due to focus on economy/security, but that configuration is largely a recent artefact (certainly the withering of state powers).   

The under-researched question is why such an incumbency advantage?   The staple explanations are a relatively prosperous and benign social/economic environment, breeding a &#039;she&#039;ll be right&#039; attitude, plus the professionalisation of politics.       A deeper explanation, needing some deeper research, is simply that compulsory voting brings out the apolitical govt supporters who otherwise would not vote.     

If I&#039;m right, compulsory voting reinforces the status quo, which by historical accident as much as anything, has been conservative federally and Labor at state level.     And if that is right, Labor&#039;s araldite commitment to compulsion is not a partisan benefit to it, and conversely the likes of Minchin do the federal Liberals no favour in opposing compulsion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aristotle &#8211; thanks for the reality check.   I</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t quite understand invoking the claim that &#8216;Labor has only twice been elected from opposition&#8217;.   Is it a caveat that these &#8216;records&#8217; are based only on two samples and hence relatively meaningless?   Or that governments since about the 1920s have been very stable &#8211; existential crises (depression, world war) aside &#8211; and so we should realise that changes of government are v.unusual?</p>
<p>It is equally true -but rarely noted &#8211; that the Liberals have only twice been elected from opposition:   1949 and 1996 (Fraser was caretaker PM in 1975).   </p>
<p>If we need comparative hurdles, why not look at state results?   There we find a similar incumbency advantage across the century, but have a much better range of instances where oppositions have won, especially Labor ones, and we find a much greater spread of results.     I accept the caveat that Labor is more attractive at state level due to focus on services, and less so at federal level due to focus on economy/security, but that configuration is largely a recent artefact (certainly the withering of state powers).   </p>
<p>The under-researched question is why such an incumbency advantage?   The staple explanations are a relatively prosperous and benign social/economic environment, breeding a &#8217;she&#8217;ll be right&#8217; attitude, plus the professionalisation of politics.       A deeper explanation, needing some deeper research, is simply that compulsory voting brings out the apolitical govt supporters who otherwise would not vote.     </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m right, compulsory voting reinforces the status quo, which by historical accident as much as anything, has been conservative federally and Labor at state level.     And if that is right, Labor&#8217;s araldite commitment to compulsion is not a partisan benefit to it, and conversely the likes of Minchin do the federal Liberals no favour in opposing compulsion.</p>
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		<title>By: bmwofoz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19812</link>
		<dc:creator>bmwofoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19812</guid>
		<description>Kooyong becomes Marginal, and Higgins falls to ALP.

With the performance of the ALP candidate in Higgins Costello is safe, while Pedro is a no show type of MP the very sort whom would be in trouble if the electorate went into meltdown 

the other Victorian seat that caught my attention was Dunkley, I would expect Bruce Billson will be returned for he is a good hard working local member and the local ALP is somewhat a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kooyong becomes Marginal, and Higgins falls to ALP.</p>
<p>With the performance of the ALP candidate in Higgins Costello is safe, while Pedro is a no show type of MP the very sort whom would be in trouble if the electorate went into meltdown </p>
<p>the other Victorian seat that caught my attention was Dunkley, I would expect Bruce Billson will be returned for he is a good hard working local member and the local ALP is somewhat a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: William Bowe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19807</link>
		<dc:creator>William Bowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19807</guid>
		<description>A column on the saga from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/polls-apart-at-the-sausage-sizzle/2007/07/13/1183833770404.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alan Ramsey in the Sydney Morning Herald&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A column on the saga from <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/polls-apart-at-the-sausage-sizzle/2007/07/13/1183833770404.html" rel="nofollow">Alan Ramsey in the Sydney Morning Herald</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: loquax</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19803</link>
		<dc:creator>loquax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19803</guid>
		<description>I will send details of this to media watch. Hopefully they will do a story on this, as it is a disgrace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will send details of this to media watch. Hopefully they will do a story on this, as it is a disgrace.</p>
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		<title>By: STROP</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19796</link>
		<dc:creator>STROP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19796</guid>
		<description>Joins Mr Speaker in not responding to the &#039;Howard to bomb APEC in terrorist plot to win votes&#039; conspiracy theorists, Envy you surprise me in joining that club. Whatever floats your boat, but that one is already sunk in my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joins Mr Speaker in not responding to the &#8216;Howard to bomb APEC in terrorist plot to win votes&#8217; conspiracy theorists, Envy you surprise me in joining that club. Whatever floats your boat, but that one is already sunk in my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19764</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19764</guid>
		<description>Taking average of these two early July Morgan phone polls vs average of two early June ones has Labor up from 45 to 48 primary, Coalition down from 40 to 36.  On 2PP, Labor goes from 55 to 58.  It&#039;s yet more evidence that Labor&#039;s primary has increased since June, and also evidence of loss of Coalition primary, though that is yet to be verified by other polls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking average of these two early July Morgan phone polls vs average of two early June ones has Labor up from 45 to 48 primary, Coalition down from 40 to 36.  On 2PP, Labor goes from 55 to 58.  It&#8217;s yet more evidence that Labor&#8217;s primary has increased since June, and also evidence of loss of Coalition primary, though that is yet to be verified by other polls.</p>
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		<title>By: The Happy Revolutionary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19760</link>
		<dc:creator>The Happy Revolutionary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 05:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19760</guid>
		<description>If anything, this little episode with the Oz tells us that bloggers can make a contribution to public discourse, and can call out the egregious asshattery of spinners like Shamaham. This saga has been widely documented across the Australian blogosphere, and I think the political and psephological bloggers (such as Mumble, Possum, OzPolitics, and the present site) are to be congratulated for offering opinion and analysis far superior to that peddled by NewsLtd&#039;s partisan hacks.

Kudos to all: Bloggers 1, The Oz, 0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anything, this little episode with the Oz tells us that bloggers can make a contribution to public discourse, and can call out the egregious asshattery of spinners like Shamaham. This saga has been widely documented across the Australian blogosphere, and I think the political and psephological bloggers (such as Mumble, Possum, OzPolitics, and the present site) are to be congratulated for offering opinion and analysis far superior to that peddled by NewsLtd&#8217;s partisan hacks.</p>
<p>Kudos to all: Bloggers 1, The Oz, 0</p>
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		<title>By: Lord D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19759</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 05:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19759</guid>
		<description>I think Martin&#039;s correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Martin&#8217;s correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19756</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19756</guid>
		<description>Black Jack,

Can you please explain how you derived those figures, for example by using 55-45. I would have thought that to get this back to 50-50 would have need 5 out of 55 to change their mind. That is 1 in 11 or 9%.

Am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black Jack,</p>
<p>Can you please explain how you derived those figures, for example by using 55-45. I would have thought that to get this back to 50-50 would have need 5 out of 55 to change their mind. That is 1 in 11 or 9%.</p>
<p>Am I missing something?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Bruce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/07/12/the-australian-vs-peter-brent/comment-page-4/#comment-19755</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/506#comment-19755</guid>
		<description>Richard Farmer has a list of seats that would change hands given the latest Newspoll - good article.
www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20070713-Bennelong-gone-and-Kooyong-now-marginal.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Farmer has a list of seats that would change hands given the latest Newspoll &#8211; good article.<br />
<a href="http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20070713-Bennelong-gone-and-Kooyong-now-marginal.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20070713-Bennelong-gone-and-Kooyong-now-marginal.html</a></p>
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