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	<title>Comments on: Albert Park and Williamstown by-elections live</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Kavanagh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-49393</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Kavanagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-49393</guid>
		<description>Can the voting figures listed above please be updated.  

The Democrats finished with 5.78 % not 4.7% - finshing clear third, after the early voting figures came in. 

These early voters knew who was contesting as the candidates greeted them at the polling booth. Other voters and non-voters, relying on media coverage, mostly thought there were only two candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can the voting figures listed above please be updated.  </p>
<p>The Democrats finished with 5.78 % not 4.7% &#8211; finshing clear third, after the early voting figures came in. </p>
<p>These early voters knew who was contesting as the candidates greeted them at the polling booth. Other voters and non-voters, relying on media coverage, mostly thought there were only two candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: FamilyPseph</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-41713</link>
		<dc:creator>FamilyPseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-41713</guid>
		<description>Very interesting result. I think a number of you have commented on the spin some of the parties have put on the results.....so trying to strip away the spin and skewed % swings. I think this may be a useful contribution. [Looks only at the primary vote]

12479 Liberal votes (where did they go?)
UP&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
1) Increased did not vote 7047
2) Increased informal 762
3) New Candidate Democrats 1702
4) New candidate Strauss 1702 (ironic dead heat according to latest figs)
5) Prodos (Spark from Albert park) 1422
6) Dobinson (Aged care single issue) 297
7) DLP 512
8) Greens increased by 1577 (would have got 265 on increased enrollment with 0% swing anyway)
9)FAMILY FIRST Increased by 916

DOWN &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
1)ALP decreased 920 (in spite of the increased enrollment)
2) Jackson -0.11% swing 104
3) CEC and People Power did not contest 1040
INCREASED ENROLLMENT 1394
_______________________
Balance 0

So I think its hard to make a case that anyone really benefited from the Liberal &quot;no show&quot; other than a bit of spillage across all the minor parties and independents. It seems the liberal voters pretty much &quot;no showed&quot; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting result. I think a number of you have commented on the spin some of the parties have put on the results&#8230;..so trying to strip away the spin and skewed % swings. I think this may be a useful contribution. [Looks only at the primary vote]</p>
<p>12479 Liberal votes (where did they go?)<br />
UP&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
1) Increased did not vote 7047<br />
2) Increased informal 762<br />
3) New Candidate Democrats 1702<br />
4) New candidate Strauss 1702 (ironic dead heat according to latest figs)<br />
5) Prodos (Spark from Albert park) 1422<br />
6) Dobinson (Aged care single issue) 297<br />
7) DLP 512<br />
 <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-cool.png' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> Greens increased by 1577 (would have got 265 on increased enrollment with 0% swing anyway)<br />
9)FAMILY FIRST Increased by 916</p>
<p>DOWN &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
1)ALP decreased 920 (in spite of the increased enrollment)<br />
2) Jackson -0.11% swing 104<br />
3) CEC and People Power did not contest 1040<br />
INCREASED ENROLLMENT 1394<br />
_______________________<br />
Balance 0</p>
<p>So I think its hard to make a case that anyone really benefited from the Liberal &#8220;no show&#8221; other than a bit of spillage across all the minor parties and independents. It seems the liberal voters pretty much &#8220;no showed&#8221; as well.</p>
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		<title>By: dembo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-40109</link>
		<dc:creator>dembo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-40109</guid>
		<description>It looks like the Democrats came equal third on first prefs behind ALP and the Greens. Not bad, not bad at all. Unfortunately impossible to extrapolate to any national figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like the Democrats came equal third on first prefs behind ALP and the Greens. Not bad, not bad at all. Unfortunately impossible to extrapolate to any national figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Baumann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-39250</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Baumann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-39250</guid>
		<description>To completely disregard the Democrats now 5.96% (in Albert Park) vote on the recheck concerns me.  Many people including commentators love to say the Democrats are dead, many also say they will not have good polling booth coverage (without knowing the state of the membership.)

There are young enthusiastic people flooding into the Democrats with the revival of the Young Dems and in SA we have been able to recruit Jenny Williams (sister of Port coach Mark Williams to stand for Hindmarsh) as well as former Green members who are unhappy with how conservative they have become in SA.  We have also been getting reasonably good press and candidates flooding the radio talkback and breakfast shows.

South Australian Democrats have filled every seat for this coming election and have 3 candidates (which includes myself) under the age of 25.

Whilst I acknowledge that the election will be tough for the Dems, we have a great team of candidates in South Australia that I feel can and will be able to boost the Democrat vote and bring in family, friends and supporters to staff polling booths.

Drawing a parallel with the last SA election vote saying the Dems can&#039;t pull more than 1% is disingenuous because at Federal level there is no Nick Xenophon and the Democrats currently have 4 hard working Senators with recent wins on the board.  The most recent Advertiser poll shows the Democrats at 3% on a state level in SA and usually the Democrats poll higher in the Senate.  So don&#039;t write the Dems off yet because the only real poll is the one on election day and anything could happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To completely disregard the Democrats now 5.96% (in Albert Park) vote on the recheck concerns me.  Many people including commentators love to say the Democrats are dead, many also say they will not have good polling booth coverage (without knowing the state of the membership.)</p>
<p>There are young enthusiastic people flooding into the Democrats with the revival of the Young Dems and in SA we have been able to recruit Jenny Williams (sister of Port coach Mark Williams to stand for Hindmarsh) as well as former Green members who are unhappy with how conservative they have become in SA.  We have also been getting reasonably good press and candidates flooding the radio talkback and breakfast shows.</p>
<p>South Australian Democrats have filled every seat for this coming election and have 3 candidates (which includes myself) under the age of 25.</p>
<p>Whilst I acknowledge that the election will be tough for the Dems, we have a great team of candidates in South Australia that I feel can and will be able to boost the Democrat vote and bring in family, friends and supporters to staff polling booths.</p>
<p>Drawing a parallel with the last SA election vote saying the Dems can&#8217;t pull more than 1% is disingenuous because at Federal level there is no Nick Xenophon and the Democrats currently have 4 hard working Senators with recent wins on the board.  The most recent Advertiser poll shows the Democrats at 3% on a state level in SA and usually the Democrats poll higher in the Senate.  So don&#8217;t write the Dems off yet because the only real poll is the one on election day and anything could happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Jackson (Independent LOCAL candidate in Albert Park)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-39006</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Jackson (Independent LOCAL candidate in Albert Park)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-39006</guid>
		<description>An interesting read. 

Comment 36: is correct in his comments about my preference plow in 2006 in Albert Park. While I registered 3 HTV&#039;s I used a pro Liberal one at the Mobile and Early voting booths while my last letterbox leaflet and my HTV on election day was pro ALP. However I only manned two booths out of 14. I got 2% at the 2 manned booths and between 0.5% to 1.5% at the unmanned booths which gave me 1.27% overall. I spent $10,000 with 3 leaflets and 7 local newspaper add that attacked John Thwaites as a failed MP and Minister. His primary vote went for 48% to 41% and now he has retired - mission accomplished.

Comment 48: is correct in saying I did not register a HTV for the Albert Park by election and no booths were manned. However I did say in a 50 word candidate statement in the Port Phillip Leader (11 Sep 07) that: 

&quot;Water was the main issue. Locally other concerns include) law and order, affordable private housing, new local hospital, reopen Albert Park College, detox Gas Works Park, infant and aged care, sustainable energy, recycled water, and stop the St Kilda triangle horror. Thwaites failed; I&#039;m preferencing the Greens.&quot;

Comment 60: is correct about the Christian issue in Albert Park. In West St Kilda, Middle Park and Albert Park suburbs (2006 Census) the biggest religious groups is the &quot;No Religion&quot; voter (25/28%) closely followed by the Roman Catholics , smaller is the Church of England and smaller still are the Orthodox voters with other making up the rest. Jewish resident (not voters) are about 2200 but that includes kids and many are moderates politically and religiously.

Elwood only has one &quot;L&quot;

This by election I spent nothing, except the nomination fee but still got 1.1%. My sole aim was to highlight the looming water crisis and I had limited success (letter to the press and local editorials).

In 2006 I beat CEC and Family First and was 3rd to be eliminated in the preference count.

Next state general election with a Liberal standing the DLP, Democrats, Family First and other independents votes will largely disappear. I think these parties/independents who all lived outside Albert Park District (except me) were having a try out and getting known so they can stand in the Federal election, perhaps in Melbourne Ports.

I will continue to push the water issue as I think we will run out of it in 18 months unless action is taken fact. 

In relation to my ban on US and Israel citizens at my B&amp;B this was a boycott in 2003 to protest the Iraq invasion and the oppression of the Palestinians. Last year I was also critical of Sen Fifield (Lib, Victoria), Helen Shardey (Lib, Caulfield) and Michael Danby (ALP, Melbourne Ports) for attending a pro Israel rally during the Hezbollah/IDF war at the same time as Israel was bombing Aussies visiting Lebanon who were well behind the border combat zone. Who&#039;s side were they on was my big concern - the Aussies or the IDF. 

I am a small L centre progressive politically. I am not anti Semitic (the indiginous peoples of greater Palestine who are Jewish, Muslim and Christian and include many Arabs) as some in the Israel lobby would say but I am anti Zionist which I consider to be a racist, segregationist and fascist political movement both hear, overseas and in Israel. 

Regards, Adrian Jackson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting read. </p>
<p>Comment 36: is correct in his comments about my preference plow in 2006 in Albert Park. While I registered 3 HTV&#8217;s I used a pro Liberal one at the Mobile and Early voting booths while my last letterbox leaflet and my HTV on election day was pro ALP. However I only manned two booths out of 14. I got 2% at the 2 manned booths and between 0.5% to 1.5% at the unmanned booths which gave me 1.27% overall. I spent $10,000 with 3 leaflets and 7 local newspaper add that attacked John Thwaites as a failed MP and Minister. His primary vote went for 48% to 41% and now he has retired &#8211; mission accomplished.</p>
<p>Comment 48: is correct in saying I did not register a HTV for the Albert Park by election and no booths were manned. However I did say in a 50 word candidate statement in the Port Phillip Leader (11 Sep 07) that: </p>
<p>&#8220;Water was the main issue. Locally other concerns include) law and order, affordable private housing, new local hospital, reopen Albert Park College, detox Gas Works Park, infant and aged care, sustainable energy, recycled water, and stop the St Kilda triangle horror. Thwaites failed; I&#8217;m preferencing the Greens.&#8221;</p>
<p>Comment 60: is correct about the Christian issue in Albert Park. In West St Kilda, Middle Park and Albert Park suburbs (2006 Census) the biggest religious groups is the &#8220;No Religion&#8221; voter (25/28%) closely followed by the Roman Catholics , smaller is the Church of England and smaller still are the Orthodox voters with other making up the rest. Jewish resident (not voters) are about 2200 but that includes kids and many are moderates politically and religiously.</p>
<p>Elwood only has one &#8220;L&#8221;</p>
<p>This by election I spent nothing, except the nomination fee but still got 1.1%. My sole aim was to highlight the looming water crisis and I had limited success (letter to the press and local editorials).</p>
<p>In 2006 I beat CEC and Family First and was 3rd to be eliminated in the preference count.</p>
<p>Next state general election with a Liberal standing the DLP, Democrats, Family First and other independents votes will largely disappear. I think these parties/independents who all lived outside Albert Park District (except me) were having a try out and getting known so they can stand in the Federal election, perhaps in Melbourne Ports.</p>
<p>I will continue to push the water issue as I think we will run out of it in 18 months unless action is taken fact. </p>
<p>In relation to my ban on US and Israel citizens at my B&amp;B this was a boycott in 2003 to protest the Iraq invasion and the oppression of the Palestinians. Last year I was also critical of Sen Fifield (Lib, Victoria), Helen Shardey (Lib, Caulfield) and Michael Danby (ALP, Melbourne Ports) for attending a pro Israel rally during the Hezbollah/IDF war at the same time as Israel was bombing Aussies visiting Lebanon who were well behind the border combat zone. Who&#8217;s side were they on was my big concern &#8211; the Aussies or the IDF. </p>
<p>I am a small L centre progressive politically. I am not anti Semitic (the indiginous peoples of greater Palestine who are Jewish, Muslim and Christian and include many Arabs) as some in the Israel lobby would say but I am anti Zionist which I consider to be a racist, segregationist and fascist political movement both hear, overseas and in Israel. </p>
<p>Regards, Adrian Jackson.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Robinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-38885</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-38885</guid>
		<description>It is quite useless to compare two-party preferred votes when we are not comparing the same two parties. Most Liberal voters see the Greens as being well to the left of the ALP, hence when forced to make a choice between Labor and the Greens they will prefer Labor, just as in the past when they had to choose between Labor and Communists. What the result does suggest is that Labor is traveling well and the Greens are not making progress in detaching support from Labor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is quite useless to compare two-party preferred votes when we are not comparing the same two parties. Most Liberal voters see the Greens as being well to the left of the ALP, hence when forced to make a choice between Labor and the Greens they will prefer Labor, just as in the past when they had to choose between Labor and Communists. What the result does suggest is that Labor is traveling well and the Greens are not making progress in detaching support from Labor.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Kavanagh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-38834</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Kavanagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-38834</guid>
		<description>Chris Curtis, what a erroneous use of the word &#039;brave&#039; in recommending that people committed to Democrats principles of judging every issue on its merits should shut up shop on the basis that the Dems will not attract  media coverage.  I would say that would be far from brave.  

It&#039;s far braver to continue to work in the established structure in support of a more humane, compassionate, peaceful, prosperous and fair society, without obligation to outside organisations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Curtis, what a erroneous use of the word &#8216;brave&#8217; in recommending that people committed to Democrats principles of judging every issue on its merits should shut up shop on the basis that the Dems will not attract  media coverage.  I would say that would be far from brave.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s far braver to continue to work in the established structure in support of a more humane, compassionate, peaceful, prosperous and fair society, without obligation to outside organisations.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris C</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-38774</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-38774</guid>
		<description>Well, glad that&#039;s all over, even if the result didn&#039;t go the way I wanted it to.  

A 9% swing is not a bad result for the Greens.  But neither is it great in this context.  I estimated that they would have required 35% primary to have a hope of winning the seat and they fell well short.    

That said, the ALP did run a negative and misleading campaign.  Many commentators seem to think that the Greens &quot;took the bait&quot; by responding to the claims.  However, from my own experience, the media did not seem interested in asking too many questions aside from questions based on what the ALP was saying (for example, the ABC story that ran in the lead up was headlined &quot;Greens Liberal deal?&quot; or something similar).  I know from my conversations with people in the electorate that the ALP advertising blitz certainly had an impact.

  All in all, as a former supporter, I&#039;m disappointed at the way the ALP behaved.  But, what else can I expect from mainstream politics these days?     

As I stated before on this site, it was always going to be a mystery where 25-30% of the Liberal vote was going to end up.  I&#039;ll have to wait for the full results to confirm, but at this point, it seems obvious that it didn&#039;t go to the Greens.  

Now, I&#039;m looking forward to a short break from politics before things heat up for the federal election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, glad that&#8217;s all over, even if the result didn&#8217;t go the way I wanted it to.  </p>
<p>A 9% swing is not a bad result for the Greens.  But neither is it great in this context.  I estimated that they would have required 35% primary to have a hope of winning the seat and they fell well short.    </p>
<p>That said, the ALP did run a negative and misleading campaign.  Many commentators seem to think that the Greens &#8220;took the bait&#8221; by responding to the claims.  However, from my own experience, the media did not seem interested in asking too many questions aside from questions based on what the ALP was saying (for example, the ABC story that ran in the lead up was headlined &#8220;Greens Liberal deal?&#8221; or something similar).  I know from my conversations with people in the electorate that the ALP advertising blitz certainly had an impact.</p>
<p>  All in all, as a former supporter, I&#8217;m disappointed at the way the ALP behaved.  But, what else can I expect from mainstream politics these days?     </p>
<p>As I stated before on this site, it was always going to be a mystery where 25-30% of the Liberal vote was going to end up.  I&#8217;ll have to wait for the full results to confirm, but at this point, it seems obvious that it didn&#8217;t go to the Greens.  </p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m looking forward to a short break from politics before things heat up for the federal election.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Curtis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-38731</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-38731</guid>
		<description>Paul (168),

Yes, I wasnâ€™t so astute on the Democrats and Family First.  I though that the more conservative Liberals would go to FF and the less conservative ones to the Democrats, while those whose main motivation was hitting Labor would go to the Greens, irrespective of their personal ideology.

The lack of Democrats coverage is a far cry from the days of the partyâ€™s foundation when Don Chipp had front page headlines all day every day.  Of course, the press is not interested in policy, and the Democrats are now being treated by the media as the DLP was.  I understand that those committed to the party will want to fight on, but we wonâ€™t see a Democrat elected to the Victorian Legislative Council in 2036.  The braver course is to close down and free the activists to go somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul (168),</p>
<p>Yes, I wasnâ€™t so astute on the Democrats and Family First.  I though that the more conservative Liberals would go to FF and the less conservative ones to the Democrats, while those whose main motivation was hitting Labor would go to the Greens, irrespective of their personal ideology.</p>
<p>The lack of Democrats coverage is a far cry from the days of the partyâ€™s foundation when Don Chipp had front page headlines all day every day.  Of course, the press is not interested in policy, and the Democrats are now being treated by the media as the DLP was.  I understand that those committed to the party will want to fight on, but we wonâ€™t see a Democrat elected to the Victorian Legislative Council in 2036.  The braver course is to close down and free the activists to go somewhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/09/15/albert-park-and-williamstown-by-elections-live/comment-page-4/#comment-38673</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 05:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/576#comment-38673</guid>
		<description>A redistrabution is due in Victoria befor the next election.
Any predictions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A redistrabution is due in Victoria befor the next election.<br />
Any predictions?</p>
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