The Australian today brings us a second round of figures from the weekend Newspoll survey. It shows that in spite of everything, the Prime Minister is rated the leader “more capable of handling Australia’s economy” by 48 per cent to Kevin Rudd’s 33 per cent, while Peter Costello leads Wayne Swan as “most capable of managing Australia’s economy as federal treasurer” by 53 per cent to 21 per cent. The Prime Minister is also rated the leader “most capable of keeping interest rates lower”, although his lead over Rudd has narrowed since last month.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Newspoll part two
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693 Comments
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489 AG
Your comments made me chuckle. I like to see myself as more an iconoclast or as the English say someone who is not “clubable”. As previously disclosed I think PJK was one of the great PM’s.
I think anyone who is privileged enough to lead has to have the courage and elan to do something with it not just to sit on power like the 90’s Labor Premiers did.
491 Winston
Unions are dead or dying. But what a glorious past – to meekly go into the dark after a 110 year history how very sad? To have a leader (Combet) who at their darkest moment leaves to go into parliament.
I would have had them go out gloriously in a worthy ending with guns blazing. For an institution that has achieved nothing in 20 years – maybe they should have wound themselves up and returned the money to their members.
Unions in Victoria have provided through their efforts provided more public holidays.. in fact holidays which Kennett took away.. Long Service Leave entitlements at pro rata levels at seven years instead of ten… The bringing back of common law rights regarding injury… and the return of award conditions for workers for people not covered by awards which Kennett took away during his dictatorial reign… Their are other provisions but they don’t readily come to mind…
Mark 502 -
IN NSW the unions stood by as the Labor Govt stripped common law workers compensation rights. Winners for workers?
Marky if workchoices didnt stem the flow of members away from the Unions 20% and falling i dont see even with a Rudd government the Unions staying afloat…if they can’t attract new members with workchoices how can they do it with workchoices-lite under PM Rudd.
I’m waiting for the Talleyrand quote, Edward.
How about “a Conservative government is an organised hypocrisy” (Disraeli)
Glen,
Could you please repeat your last post.
I love the words “Rudd Government”. and “PM Rudd”.
I’m excited!
Firstly, it appears that the Coalition’s white elephant is stomping all over their petunias at the moment. The more the public hears about Workchoices and sees a commercial, the more entrenched the mistrust becomes. It is killing them and rightly so.
However, not all the comments here have made complete sense, well at least to me. I do reserve the right to claim my own stupidity or tiredness in defence, but here is an example from Just Me:
“She and her business partner HATE Workchoices. It creates more work and gives them less choice in their business decisions than before. It has also opened the floodgates to a ‘race to the bottom’ in their industry, and they are soon going to have to decide whether to screw their loyal employees, or close the business.”
The questions I would pose are:
1. If the business was profitable before and she either maintained previous awards or offered AWA’s with the same or better benefits in real terms, then should it not still be profitable?
2. If her business was offering “the best deal” in their industry, then, geography permitting, wouldn’t her business get a choice of the best workers and, in the long term, benefit from being fair.
In the short to medium term, competitors having the possibility of higher profitability does not necessarily affect your own business. Indeed, if they are “shafting” workers in her industry, then, over the long term, this will cripple (or at the very least decrease productivity) in their businesses, rendering them less profitable.
I have actually seen private companies and NGOs improve outcomes and profitability through offering better terms and conditions than competitors. We have also seen how companies like Microsoft and Ben & Jerry’s in the USA have become market leaders and attracted the best talent by looking after workers.
I believe the worst aspect of Work Choices is the very real possibility that those least able to negotiate their package will need this the most, particularly in a downturn. I think this vulnerability is unjustifiable. At the same time, it saddens me to see the ALP using it as a chance to shift the needle too much the other way.
Unfair dismissal laws stifle small business and cause massive headaches when you are “scraping the barrel” in terms of unemployment. I saw a lifelong ALP voter change immediately his party preference to Liberal in 1987 after a year in small business. To my knowledge he has never voted ALP again. He also never took on a net increase in staff whilst the ALP was in power.
How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
(Ronald Reagan)
“They have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing” (referring to the bourbons) – which I am sure you know Adam.
Also addressing young diplomats going on posting
“Above all, gentleman, not the slightest zeal”
Adam, why the bagging of Talleyrand? perhaps you were thinking of Fouche.
Scorpio, as the Nats don’t stand in all seats, it’s very hard to assess their standing in the polls. And the polls themselves sometimes under-estimate the regional vote, or people declare themselves Liberal voters then find they only have a Nat available to vote for.
The Nats are certainly succeeding in some respects. They have helped deliver an astonishing amount of drought relief to farmers. Unlike the Libs, they’ve always had a very strong grassroots organisation, which delivers campaign money and hustings support. They’ve held out against easing of quarantine laws (though horse flu won’t help them), when there’s a lot of pressure to ease quarantine to help the international push for free trade.
And they’ve managed to retain some vague form of single desk for marketing wheat, when you’d think free trade agreements and the AWB scandal would have made the single desk dead meat.
But all this has been delivered to farmers. There’s very little from the Nats that will win them votes among the majority of regional voters, who are NOT farmers. Petrol prices and skills shortages, in particular, are hurting in the regions, as is housing affordability in some areas. We’ve heard little from the Nats on these issues.
So Edward when will you answer my question?
And on that what has John Howard done for working people?
Oh given them a job… Low Interest Rates… nothing in regards to conditions at work…
and who benefits the employer of course
back to the master that being Glen and Edward St John and Marky as the servant….
my favourite Reagon quote
“trees cause more pollution and automobiles”
“trees cause more pollution than automobiles”
Mark 512
Relationships often start off great and then sour – should we stay in bad relationships?
Unions played a vital role in our history but since the early 90’s became a club for young ALP politicians. If something has gone bad should you keep it because of sentimentality?
All of the things you identify are actually protected by legislation under WorkChoices.
Captain Gerrymander Unfair dismissal where introduced in 1993 under the Keating Government.. So where does 1987 come from…
Oh is that all, I though you had something new and original about cynicism.
Fouche was a simple policeman, doing what he was paid to do. Talleyrand was an evil, sinister manipulator, and a total cynic. His remark on the death of his wife (”This greatly simplifies matters”) is fairly typical.
William
Can you please add the word “hubris” to your spam filter please.
Thank you
ESJ at 488
asked yesterday “what advance unions delivered since 1987 (compulsory super) ”
Well, they’ve placed the Howard Government on the edge of electoral oblivion (see possum’s site)
(oh, and the aqueducts)
Give us a break its midnight and mum and dad are telling me to go to bed …
It was something about black coffee – I just cant remember the rest of the quote – I thought the second one qualified and showed the essential character of the man.
Glen,
You are absolutely right, Groucho Marx and John Lennon have a lot to answer for.
Time for all Young Liberals to go to bed and jerk off to Amanda Vanstone’s photo in Liberal Review Bumper Spring Edition?
Well I am only 17
Maybe Talleyrand didn’t love his wife. I certainly dont think Talleyrand was evil. Fouche was a monster. This perhaps one of the most chilling sentences ever written, during the Revolution as Fouche was killing thousands of people:
“Terror, salutary terror, is now the order of the day here….We are causing much impure blood to flow, but it is our duty to do so, it is for humanity’s sake”
Edward and Glen… These people made their living under conditions which the unions helped achieve… But the unions do nothing for people.
Once votes were being lost the Coalition finally realised that it better enact legislation to protect working people… but after the election it will be back to square one and than even hasher laws…
All about winning an election Edward, not about working people…
But you see i don’t care because i made my income under conditions provided to me my unions…
I think it would be more possible Adam to do that with a picture of Vanstone than young Labor member jerking off to Julia Gillard and Jenny Macklin lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh well that’s one vote the Libs dont have (ESJ) ah well!
adam & scorpio,
bear in mind that every $1 bet on Labor only gives you about $0.40 profit, if they win, whereas you get a $2.00 win if the coalition gets up. Even at this discrepancy, the punters are still pouring money into the ALP.
Adam, the key thing is that Bookies are not Gamblers. They adjust their odds so that whichever side wins, they make a profit (about 5%) .
if they’re receiving $60 on ALP, their payout will be about $84 if the ALP win
If they are receiving $40 on the Libs, their payout will be $120 if the Libs win. A net profit of $16 if the ALP wins, a loss of $20 if the Libs win.
If their book were to be balanced with a 60/40 split, their ideal prices would be 1.58/2.37, giving them a guaranteed profit of 5.2%. Since it isn’t it means they’re trying to DIScourage ALP money, and attract LIB money. This could be be because they’re bigger gamblers than I think, or because earlier they had the ALP figure too fat, and are trying to balance their books.
In view of your description, Adam, it is fortunate I never met the appalling Talleyrand.
“The temptation shared by all forms of intelligence: cynicism
— Albert Camus
MM, stop demanding that ESJ answer your question. He has every right to ignore you if he likes. Same applies to Optimist earlier on in the thread.
William Bowe
http://www.pollbludger.com
“Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.” –
— Lillian Hellman
If in doubt complete another enrolment form and mail it back to the AEC.
I couldn’t confirm my own enrolment online. Apparently an online enquiry must match the AEC’s records perfectly. One character different and the enquiry doesn’t match.
Actually ESJ,
The answer is Vote ALP.
Then there is hope for you yet, Edward. Consider the career of Gladstone, who started out an obnoxious young Tory snot, just like you, and matured into a great radical.
I have benefited from union membership. When I was in construction here in QLD I was a member of the BLF (Q). Because of the nature of the industry you can be on a project for a certain amount of time then get layed off when the project comes to an end. then you are back to square one looking for the next job. The union recogised this and had got us a negotiated deal with the major builders to start a redundancy fund for all employees that work on EBA sites. Its called BERT (Building Employee Redundancy Trust)
It works like this. The boss pays $70.00 per week into the trust & lets say after 9 months you are let off from the project. As a trust member you can claim that money by providing your separation notice & go claim that money – $2520.oo less tax. It is a life line to construction workers here in QLD and it allows a worker time to look for his/her next job without being financially strapped.
Also as the fund is an non-profit organisation all the interest earned from the fund are transferred over to the training fund the QCTF – QLD Construction Training Fund so if I want to upskill myself I can apply for a grant & go & get more tickets. As I have done in the past . I received $1400.oo grant to study to become a Workplace Health & Safety Officer & just this year again I got another grant for $1800.oo to study for my Certificate IV Trainer & Assessor. Union membership has it benefits.
The trust has a board of directors from the BLF, CFMEU, Plumbers union & the QLD Master Builders Association.
You see ESJ unions can and do lots of good for their membership. Solidarity Forever. I can go on about other things that as a member I have received like th CSTC – Construction Skill Training Center where I can go & get unskilled in any facet of the construction industry from being a scaffolder to operating a crain to …you name it!
Please feel free to check its web page out
http://www.cstc.org.au/ I hope this has been an education for you.
{We’ve heard little from the Nats on these issues.}
Antonio, I haven’t even seen any thing from them in the media.
I’m in the TV coverage area for “Flynn” and “Dawson” and there is zilch.
The Labor candidate for Flynn is running adds with Rudd constantly, but absolutely zilch from the Nats. I don’t even know who their candidate is.
I think they have just decided to give Flynn away and will just run dead. Kelly in Dawson is quiet too and I have the feeling that she feels threatened so much that it may not be worth their while to spend too much until thye campaign proper.
I really think that workchoices will lose Dawson for the Nats. I’m off to bed, on a promise and don’t intend to miss out. Goodnight all.
Indeed, if they are “shafting†workers in her industry, then, over the long term, this will cripple (or at the very least decrease productivity) in their businesses, rendering them less profitable.
Captain Gerrymander 507
“over the long term”
And in that phrase lies the answer to your own question. No matter how good a small company is, they cannot survive for long against cut-throat competition, even if it is ultimately destructive it is for the industry. What happens is the good ones go out of business, and then some time later, after the industry’s customers realise what a mistake they made blindly going for the cheapest service/good, another company starts up offering something approximating the original quality of service/good. But the company originally offering that quality service/good has had to close down in the meantime. Where’s the market (and social) good in that?
I have seen several examples of this close-up over the years. It does not deliver better quality services/goods, and is just a incredible waste of capital and human resources which benefits nobody in the long term.
and consorter of prostitutes too! Adam
One of history’s greatest, most repugnant figures
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/02/25/bohar25.xml
marky marky @502
yes the Bracks Government restored common law rights to workers taken away by Jeff Kennett.
But they did NOT backdate them like they PROMISED they would do in the election campaign. This has resulted in an 18 month black hole where workers were left with NO common law rights.
i happen to be one of these workers. i have not been able to return to work and my life was turned upside down by my injury.
Talleyrand lied all the time, especially about himself. And people lied about him. As he himself remarked: ‘People always say too much ill or too much good of me. I enjoy the honours of exaggeration.’
http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/johnson_02_07.html
Churchill had some truth in his quote about not having a heart if when your young and you dont vote Labor and not having a brain when you’re older and dont vote Tory…
I may not have a heart but at least i have a brain…
Adam – now now – let’s not turn nasty and frighten the kids. Besides there are better options.
well then it must be true
Only to save their souls, Edward. He was a great churchman as well as a great radical.
en plus…
No one really knew what went on inside his head, not even Madame de Dino. He had no fixed moral or political principles, beyond a general preference for peace as opposed to war, and for order as opposed to radical change. But he was at all times perceptive and quick to seize opportunities, an expert at taking advantage of events as they occurred. He was, in his own stealthy way, a superb negotiator and diplomat. His weakness was a failure to understand the military factor, which led him to many misjudgements. He was incorrigibly and perpetually corrupt, taking money from individuals and governments in the most shameless manner, and thus acquiring several fortunes, which he also lost by foolish speculations in banking.
“Talleyrand lied all the time” big deal. Everybody bags Talleyrand for betraying Napoleon. Im not saying he was a good man, but to unfavourably compare him to monsters such as Fouche and Napoleon is a sick twist.
No doubt Adam that’s what all the “johns” in history say when they are caught.
For someone who is obviously well-read your naivety is amusing.
I was just trying to be like Kerry O’ Brien Willam.. But it never works.. Fine.
Glen, that was Francois Guizot, not Churchill.
Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart;
to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.
If you do indeed have a head, please get someone to show you the “on” switch.
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