A thread for you all to discuss the debate as it happens. If you don’t like the company round here, there’s a live chatroom at Larvatus Prodeo.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Open debate thread
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1,076 Comments
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Done, sinic, 773. A number of undecides, I note.
Hello AUSTRALIANS, I am the AUSTRALIAN prime minister, I am TRUE BLUE, DINKY DIE, and I think Mr Rudd is having TWO BOB EACH WAY.
(Particularly if you can have a quick change of heart and find a ministry whereby Pyne get his head shoved up a ruminant’s you know what).
Yes please, yes please. I will pay good money to see that.
794
Why Rudd Must Lose Says:
Rudd was treasonous on security and terrorism.
That sort of vacuous vicious drivel is precisely why your mob will lose.
HH @ 800: I didn’t get that from the Pm’s comments, tbh. When was that made/ inferred?
Even though Ch.9 went in with the fix, the worm still took a dive.
There must be a way Crosby Textor could factor this into their “annelid analysis” of The Debate. These guys are pretty thorough.
I think we might see a newspoll at the strike of twelve. Hope our beautiful carriage that took us away from the debate doesnt turn into a pumpkin!
Anyway, get your predictions in quick (if it comes out tonight), I’m going with 54-46, but really I’m hoping for 57-43+++. Bias-o-metre swinging to the left
Chris Curtis,
I was getting a bit worried that I might have been the only objective one to score Mr Rudd as the winner of the debate, so it is good to know that that makes two of us.
Thank you as well for your reply a few days ago to my query about the 1957 split and also for your previous posts covering some important political history. Your insights and efforts are appreciated.
News Com Debate poll overun by Liberal hacks, they should check the IP’s flooding the voting.
Howard 47% (5440 votes) Kevin Rudd 46% (5314 votes) It was a draw 5% (619 votes) Total votes Total of 11373 votes
The poll was running 65% Rudd 35% Howard before these hackers started.
Just out of curiously, I just asked my daughter (soon to turn 18) whether she knew the meaning of: “to use that well known Australian expression, Mr Rudd is trying to have two bob each way.â€
Is it something about money? she replied. I explained to her what it meant, and that “two bob” was 20 cents, and that John Howard had said it in the debate.
She said she doubted that few people her age would know the proper meaning of the phrase, though they could probably make a guess. So much for a “well-known” phrase!
Crikey cobber, stone the crows, the old feller sure knows how to do the lingo with those hip young folk.
Expect a Sid Marris story about the online poll in tomorrow’s online Australian.
Don’t worry, they’ll need to go to bed very soon.
Why Rudd Must Lose,
Your post at 794 is as unrealistic as your moniker.
I think Rudd should have announced a second debate in three weeks time and the end of the debate and said it will be a town hall style meeting with randomly chosen people or people from one marginal electorate. And do it out in Makin or Stirling. Then Howard would have had to respond and look weak.
“The net worth of Hillary Clinton’s campaign is $48 million, more than twice as much as the net worth of all the Republican campaigns combined.”
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Yeah, the libs have been baking lots of different cookies to give to news.com.au
Shows On,
Reminds of the time I was entertaining a foreign guest while driving round Victoria. Of course being an avid AFL fan I had the game of the day playing as we drove around.
I still remember the dialogue.
Jesaulenko grabs the pill, turns on a sixpence, sells the dummy and goes bang………….Another sausage roll.
My guest was totally bemused.
But it is an AUSTRALIAN phrase! It proves that Mr Howard, our beloved leader, is more AUSTRALIAN tham Mr Rudd who is only partly AUSTRALIAN.
Are you sure your daughter is AUSTRALIAN? Maybe not as AUSTRALIAN as the prime minister, but at least somewhat AUSTRALIAN?
Sorry, I just found Howard’s introduction hilarious. Why didn’t he just USE the statement… it is like Andrew Robb talking about SUBSTANCE as if it is some abstract metaphysical concept.
But you can be sure that Mr and Mrs J. Howard know exactly who Horne was and what he thought of them and their ilk. I am sure that they frequently burn any copies of his works, especially his last work, Looking for leadership: Australia in the Howard years, that they come across at Liberal Party jumble sales.
No 813
Just proves that the size of the warchest determines who wins, not the policy substance.
“two bob each way”
Might be showing my age, but two bob is a two shilling or a florin coin.
Sunday October 21, 10:08 PM
Rudd’s odds shorten after debate win
Labor leader Kevin Rudd’s odds of winning the federal election have shortened after Sunday night’s debate with Prime Minister John Howard, according to one betting agency.
Lasseters Sportsbook said Labor had firmed as favourite for the November 24 poll, down to $1.60 from $1.70 before the debate.
The Coalition’s odds weakened from $2.15 to $2.30.
.
.
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Looks like the whole world thinks Rudd won the debate.
Anyone else pick up that JWH refered to his team as “Shadow Ministers”?
I regard that gaffe as exposing Howards nervousness as well as the fact that he is way past his use-by-date.
Best comment on this blog was the blogger who referred to Howard as coming across as a “Grumpy Grandpa Simpson”. Simply priceless.
Oh the vernacular…. A response to the PM
“Don’t come the raw prawn with me John. I think when you first got elected people thought you were a beaut bloke; but now it’s time you pissed off you silly old drongo.
“Geez, I’m as dry as a dead dingo’s donger, can someone get me a XXXX”
Sorry, that was perhaps a bridge too far. Why does everyone want to channel Hawkie in 07?
I think this is brilliant! The fact it is about an Australian who’s surname is “Jesaulenko” makes it all the more so.
My guest was totally bemused.]
I once watched the rugby league state of origin, but with Roy and H.G.’s commentary with a friend from France. She couldn’t make head or tail of it.
Hey, a Clinton is better than a Bush. Baby steps, after that fall off the cliff 7 years ago, albeit by a florida push rather than a collective jump.
Shows On #816: Yes I’m sure my daughter is Australian. She likes to go out late at night and get on the piss, and tries to avoid school and work as often as possible.
If there was an education revolution, my family would be guillotined.
But I luv ‘em all.
And if I wasn’t indulging in this post-debate chat, they’d be on MySpace. I’m pleased the Kevvie will soon give us a rebate for this.
Why, thank you Fargo61 for your kind words. Perhaps between us we can lift the politeness around here.
Speaking of war chests.For all those a little short on cash. I heard that Howard is paying letter box droppers in Bennelong because he can’t get enough volunteers and he hire a second shop front on the main strip.
That’s a common misunderstanding of US politics. US elections cost a lot of money, but quality candidates attract the money to pay for them. Hillary is rich because she’s a winner, not vice versa.
Damn, it seems Rudd missed it as well. If he hadn’t he could’ve said “Mr Howard just mistakenly called his ministers ’shadow ministers’, well, I think they have been acting like shadow ministers on health, education, and climate change…”
There once was a man
Who stood in a great hall
The problem for he
Was that he could not see
How to get down
Without fall
Just amusing myself.
754
Adam Says:
I have, and I disagree with his views, Australia is a lucky country but when it comes to resources so is Brazil and Argentina. Why the different outcomes? It is my view you will find the answer in the question “Why does Australia have the largest middle class.?” The answer is not because we are second rate people.
It is a question the Labor party should study, they have a few things to to be proud of, however the outcome was helped along by forward thinking people from all political leanings.
Burgey, Howard’s statement that his foreign policy won’t be determined by terrorists I interpreted as a veiled attack on Rudd and other members of the left who oppose the Iraq War. Maybe I’m reading too much into it?
That’s exactly what I thought when he made that statement. He wanted to tip toe up to the line and create an impression, but without a direct smear.
This is Republican party campaigning 101.
That news Ltd use their on-line polls as a source of serious data to write articles proves the GG to be purley a hack paper. At best they measure reader demographic at worst they measure script kiddies or dedicated party supporters voting their heads off. But represent the opinions of the general public?
Burgey @ 804 – I assume Howard Hater is referring to JWH’s line in the national security section, which was along the lines of “we will never surrender our foreign policy approach to terrorists” – the implication of which is that Labor would. The “cut and run” rhetoric really won’t play over here the way it does (or did) in the US.
No 827
That’s absolutely wrong. I’m a member of the Liberal Party and we have 750 volunteers in Bennelong alone.
I’ve got a nasty feeling the Rodent might run the line “A Vote For Rudd Is A Vote For Terrorists”. Remember he’s a desperate man!
I reckon the best approach with the news.com.au poll is to let it go and don’t try to fight the hax0rs. Let them try to write a story making their poll seem legitimate tomorrow when it’s 90-10 in favour of Howard and every other report is about how Rudd won.
“two bob is a two shilling or a florin coin”.
Florins! Why doesn’t Howard bring them back? And petrol would be cheaper if it was priced in guineas.
Strike a light, Johnny! Life was better under the old money. We made do without fibres to our nodes, and we dealt with those bloody Kyoto protocols in their midget submarines.
You’ll need them.
That would be Exclusive Brethren GP.
charles,
As you say, forward thinking people from all parties have made a contribution to Australia’s progress. One reason Australia has he largest middle class is the rise of unionism, its conversion to parliamentary politics and the development of the conciliation and arbitration system in Australia that helped share the wealth. But the topic is too big for here and now.
Anyone into masochism, here is Spamahan at the GG explaining that Rudd won the debate only “because he didn’t lose” LOL
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22458164-5013871,00.html
Mind you I don’t understand all Dennis is saying – what on earth is a “Rudd-centric worm”? Does Kev need a course of tablets?
I found Rudd’s performance a little disappointing. I sometimes found myself wondering “haven’t I heard this speech somewhere else before?”.
That being said, Howard could have given a speech worthy of a Noble Peace Prize and it wouldn’t have convinced me to vote for the cretin. He can say what he likes, but his morally deficient performance over the last 11 years has left me counting down his days with manic euphoria.
I did however like Rudd’s sincere response on reconciliation. If you can’t agree with bestowing the deserved respect to our nation’s original people, then you must be a very cold being indeed.
To be fair, they only use the bull$#|! online polls that appear on The Australian homepage, not the news.com.au page.
They go with the premium bull$#|! , not generic bull$#|! because THEY KNOW bull$#|!, because they OWN bull$#|! .
No 840
Nope. It looks like we easily outnumbered Maxine’s poor showing at the Granny Smith Festival. Totally outclassed by Howard.
The worm is a Joke as has been made clear in the past, to think the worm has given past contenders like beazley and latham the victory over our Honerable PM, this goes to show the farsical nature of it, those who watched the chanel 9 coverage which infact was utilising a Pirated feed of the National Debate are pathetic, You should have watched the debate without the worm and formed your own opinion, most of you have been seemingly to fixiated on the so called worm of popularity. To even listen to the debated topics, Kevin Rudd failed to answer most questions asked of him and most of the policies or ideas he put forward were mere Mirror reflections of Howards already proposed and some already implemented Ideas, he also became very boring going over the same boring proposals and ideas of creating more beaurocracies to give more of his union buddies jobs.
Kevin Rudd acts like a child, playing the blame game, nothing is ever his fault when his party slips up or even when he himself clearly does, how could people even consider such a small man worthy of the Top Job in this country, We are a strong nation because we are all reaping the benefits of a well managed economy, it doesnt run itself nor is The PM responsable for all that we benefit from, its his strong Team, Peter Costello an economic manager whom would be sort after in any government body throughout the world if he were available, Alexander Downer a 3rd generation dipolomat with the ability to successfully negotiate our position in the global market, to hand our Country over to a bunch of Unqualified Union biased morons would have dyer affects to this strong economy we all benefit from.
Take it easy all and remember a Vote for labour is a vote for a Union control economy somewhat like a Dictatorship, you wont have a say in your workplace and nolonger will employers be able to reward you fairly for hard work and dedication, fear of Union control will drive employment down and unsettle the currently afluent job market, that has been created by Industrial Relations reform.
Generic Person
836
The letter box dropping is what I heard. No evidence as such. Although you now have the second shop. Is this correct. Did you go to the Granny Smith Festival?
Yeah, that will win you a lot of votes. You’ve tied up the Granny vote.
Thank you Mr Speaker…
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