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	<title>Comments on: Morgan: 56-44</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73616</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73616</guid>
		<description>BTW if anybody is interested a couple of my relatives went to a recent function with Downer as speaker. It was a fundraiser for Steve Ciobo in Moncrieff. When speaking about what the internal Liberal polls are showing Downer said he expected the Liberals would loose a couple of seats and that is all. This blow me away. Firstly, whether the internal polls were showing this or not you would expect the normal line to be, &#039;it is close and we need all the help we can get&#039;. Secondly if it were showing the same as the public polls then why go out and make yourself look bad. There is something strange going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW if anybody is interested a couple of my relatives went to a recent function with Downer as speaker. It was a fundraiser for Steve Ciobo in Moncrieff. When speaking about what the internal Liberal polls are showing Downer said he expected the Liberals would loose a couple of seats and that is all. This blow me away. Firstly, whether the internal polls were showing this or not you would expect the normal line to be, &#8216;it is close and we need all the help we can get&#8217;. Secondly if it were showing the same as the public polls then why go out and make yourself look bad. There is something strange going on.</p>
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		<title>By: HaHaHa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73600</link>
		<dc:creator>HaHaHa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73600</guid>
		<description>Earlier on I e-mailed my local Liberal candidate Bob Day about his apprentice wages thing. Here is the answer I got.

I believe apprentice wages (make that ALL wages) should be based on
performance. I have long argued that
if an apprentice can perform the work of a tradesman (and I have met
many who can) they should be paid
accordingly. Bricklayers, for example, get paid per 1,000 bricks laid. I
know some 2nd year apprentices
who can out-lay a tradesman with 20 years experience! 

Like it or not, people can only be paid based on the value of work done.
If you wanted a pipe fixed at your
house or some pavers laid or a new power point fitted and the value of
the work is say $100, how can the
tradesman you call in pay someone else $120 to do it? Some people are
slower than others, some are faster. That&#039;s
life, and we all have to live with that. The fast ones end up earning
more than the slow ones.

As for &quot;$5 an hour, be happy you&#039;ve got a job&quot;, every apprentice after a
few short years ends up being a 
tradesman and is then on between $1,000 - $2,000 a week for the rest of
their life!

But apart from that, why is it OK for student teachers, student social
workers, student nurses and just
about every other area of university or TAFE or hairdressing students
etc to get $5 an hour? Why is that
not patronising?

When you spend your money Curtis, you decide whether it&#039;s worth buying
for that price. It&#039;s your money. 
So who should decide how much people should be paid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earlier on I e-mailed my local Liberal candidate Bob Day about his apprentice wages thing. Here is the answer I got.</p>
<p>I believe apprentice wages (make that ALL wages) should be based on<br />
performance. I have long argued that<br />
if an apprentice can perform the work of a tradesman (and I have met<br />
many who can) they should be paid<br />
accordingly. Bricklayers, for example, get paid per 1,000 bricks laid. I<br />
know some 2nd year apprentices<br />
who can out-lay a tradesman with 20 years experience! </p>
<p>Like it or not, people can only be paid based on the value of work done.<br />
If you wanted a pipe fixed at your<br />
house or some pavers laid or a new power point fitted and the value of<br />
the work is say $100, how can the<br />
tradesman you call in pay someone else $120 to do it? Some people are<br />
slower than others, some are faster. That&#8217;s<br />
life, and we all have to live with that. The fast ones end up earning<br />
more than the slow ones.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;$5 an hour, be happy you&#8217;ve got a job&#8221;, every apprentice after a<br />
few short years ends up being a<br />
tradesman and is then on between $1,000 &#8211; $2,000 a week for the rest of<br />
their life!</p>
<p>But apart from that, why is it OK for student teachers, student social<br />
workers, student nurses and just<br />
about every other area of university or TAFE or hairdressing students<br />
etc to get $5 an hour? Why is that<br />
not patronising?</p>
<p>When you spend your money Curtis, you decide whether it&#8217;s worth buying<br />
for that price. It&#8217;s your money.<br />
So who should decide how much people should be paid?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Corbett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73584</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Corbett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73584</guid>
		<description>Keegan

It would be super icky and sticky, not to mention untenable. Therefore, hard to do but, in this atmosphere, necessary. There is always a form of words - for everything. A newspaper has to retain some dignity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keegan</p>
<p>It would be super icky and sticky, not to mention untenable. Therefore, hard to do but, in this atmosphere, necessary. There is always a form of words &#8211; for everything. A newspaper has to retain some dignity.</p>
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		<title>By: The Keegan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73500</link>
		<dc:creator>The Keegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73500</guid>
		<description>418 Derek, fair call, and even if the GG did a 180 I suspect I&#039;d actually find it a bit icky... I mean could I see myself agreeing with Glug Glug Milne on anything? I think not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>418 Derek, fair call, and even if the GG did a 180 I suspect I&#8217;d actually find it a bit icky&#8230; I mean could I see myself agreeing with Glug Glug Milne on anything? I think not&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: will</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73442</link>
		<dc:creator>will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73442</guid>
		<description>Glen, I have a few questions to ask you
You stated the other night that you served in Government.
Would you kindly enlighten me as to how you served, was it with the libs or nats.
Was it state or federal government (I presume State)
Did you serve on the front bench, or were you a back-bencher?
What, if any, was your portfolio if you served as a frontbencher.
On what platform did you seek election?
How long did you serve the people, and did you carry through with your promises that you would have made to the people. How successful were you in implementing policy?
Were you defeated at further elections, or did you retire from govt?
Thanks, Glen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glen, I have a few questions to ask you<br />
You stated the other night that you served in Government.<br />
Would you kindly enlighten me as to how you served, was it with the libs or nats.<br />
Was it state or federal government (I presume State)<br />
Did you serve on the front bench, or were you a back-bencher?<br />
What, if any, was your portfolio if you served as a frontbencher.<br />
On what platform did you seek election?<br />
How long did you serve the people, and did you carry through with your promises that you would have made to the people. How successful were you in implementing policy?<br />
Were you defeated at further elections, or did you retire from govt?<br />
Thanks, Glen.</p>
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		<title>By: Megan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73319</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73319</guid>
		<description>Glen,
A lot of these places don&#039;t have embassies,etc. I too had parents who would have done anything to get out of war-torn Europe,especially during years of occupation. It is one thing to invade another country,but it is another to have your country occupied,with soldiers helping themselves to your property,wife,daughters...
Just imagine if this country was invaded and occupied for years and you had young children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glen,<br />
A lot of these places don&#8217;t have embassies,etc. I too had parents who would have done anything to get out of war-torn Europe,especially during years of occupation. It is one thing to invade another country,but it is another to have your country occupied,with soldiers helping themselves to your property,wife,daughters&#8230;<br />
Just imagine if this country was invaded and occupied for years and you had young children.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73306</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73306</guid>
		<description>Someone was talking earlier about a bloke in a shopping centre today making a goose out of rodent by putting his hand out and then pulling it away as rat face tried to shake. Apparently the coppers then gave the prankster a &#039;talking&#039; to.

Tonight on ABC News Sydney showed the clip of the fake handshake without pointing out what actually went on.

Looked to me as if the prankster got rodent a couple of times - hand out, then as rodent put his out the bloke laughed and pulled his hand away and touched his hair, twice, laughing in rodents face each time.

No doubt the clip will get air time on Insiders etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone was talking earlier about a bloke in a shopping centre today making a goose out of rodent by putting his hand out and then pulling it away as rat face tried to shake. Apparently the coppers then gave the prankster a &#8216;talking&#8217; to.</p>
<p>Tonight on ABC News Sydney showed the clip of the fake handshake without pointing out what actually went on.</p>
<p>Looked to me as if the prankster got rodent a couple of times &#8211; hand out, then as rodent put his out the bloke laughed and pulled his hand away and touched his hair, twice, laughing in rodents face each time.</p>
<p>No doubt the clip will get air time on Insiders etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Flash</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73293</link>
		<dc:creator>Flash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73293</guid>
		<description>I think Dennis Shanahan has finally been caught red-handed. The evidence is clear. This story is a fabrication. In fact, the ABC PM program did seek a comment from him, and the explanation was entirely convoluted and unconvincing - something along the lines that in fact these had been verbal comments made by reps of the various car companies. This of course in now way squares with the story as published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dennis Shanahan has finally been caught red-handed. The evidence is clear. This story is a fabrication. In fact, the ABC PM program did seek a comment from him, and the explanation was entirely convoluted and unconvincing &#8211; something along the lines that in fact these had been verbal comments made by reps of the various car companies. This of course in now way squares with the story as published.</p>
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		<title>By: Get Real</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73202</link>
		<dc:creator>Get Real</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73202</guid>
		<description>I have just had a chance to catch up with how Bongiorno at 10 and others have exposed Dennis Shanahan for the shonk we all knew him to be.

Congratulations BushfireBill for following this up

But when you read in the story this morning paragraphs such as:

&quot;The PM&amp;C submission says it is &quot;widely recognised that Australian car manufacturers are facing serious pressure, raising real questions about the long-term viability of at least two, and possibly three, of the companies&quot;. 

&quot;In essence, the question that the industry is raising is why would a Toyota, Ford or a General Motors in Tokyo or Detroit respectively want to invest millions in upgrading an Australian operation when they are facing higher labour costs, greater union militancy and the threat of more strike action when they can put their money into low-cost and highly efficient Chinese operations?&quot; 

...you have to ask yourself, was the PM &amp; C submission written by Peter Hendy or by a Liberal party stooge placed in the department to generate such rubbish, which frankly reads like something from an undergraduate Liberal student doing business studies at Bond Uni...

With any little luck this story will &quot;bell the cat&quot; on the woeful coverage from our erstwhile national newspaper of record...

I hope someone puts in a complaint to the Press Council

And someone should also try and FOI the letter and its support material (that is, unless there&#039;s a conclusive certificate on it already)

And if the journos of the MSM had any balls they would be starting to direct questions to both the Treasurer, the Finance Minister, the Minister for Industry etc to see if they were made aware of this correspondence

And directing questions to Shanahan himself...

Come on fearless members of the 4th estate.....your credibility demands it....

And BTW, frankly if you were a global manufacturing company would you be happy having your &quot;brand&quot; associated with &quot;Team Howard&quot;? and their ideological anti-union obsessions?

I think not. I suspect that not even Ratsak wants the association....

I really hope the media ask some hard questions of itself about this story, which - after all - led the front page of our national broadsheet and was clearly designed to set the agenda for the day and dovetails perfectly into the rhetoric and verbiage of the Coalition Government....

Is Dennis Shanahan for real?

I guess Paul Kelly is just happy he wasn&#039;t lumbered or instructed to write this rubbish...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just had a chance to catch up with how Bongiorno at 10 and others have exposed Dennis Shanahan for the shonk we all knew him to be.</p>
<p>Congratulations BushfireBill for following this up</p>
<p>But when you read in the story this morning paragraphs such as:</p>
<p>&#8220;The PM&amp;C submission says it is &#8220;widely recognised that Australian car manufacturers are facing serious pressure, raising real questions about the long-term viability of at least two, and possibly three, of the companies&#8221;. </p>
<p>&#8220;In essence, the question that the industry is raising is why would a Toyota, Ford or a General Motors in Tokyo or Detroit respectively want to invest millions in upgrading an Australian operation when they are facing higher labour costs, greater union militancy and the threat of more strike action when they can put their money into low-cost and highly efficient Chinese operations?&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8230;you have to ask yourself, was the PM &amp; C submission written by Peter Hendy or by a Liberal party stooge placed in the department to generate such rubbish, which frankly reads like something from an undergraduate Liberal student doing business studies at Bond Uni&#8230;</p>
<p>With any little luck this story will &#8220;bell the cat&#8221; on the woeful coverage from our erstwhile national newspaper of record&#8230;</p>
<p>I hope someone puts in a complaint to the Press Council</p>
<p>And someone should also try and FOI the letter and its support material (that is, unless there&#8217;s a conclusive certificate on it already)</p>
<p>And if the journos of the MSM had any balls they would be starting to direct questions to both the Treasurer, the Finance Minister, the Minister for Industry etc to see if they were made aware of this correspondence</p>
<p>And directing questions to Shanahan himself&#8230;</p>
<p>Come on fearless members of the 4th estate&#8230;..your credibility demands it&#8230;.</p>
<p>And BTW, frankly if you were a global manufacturing company would you be happy having your &#8220;brand&#8221; associated with &#8220;Team Howard&#8221;? and their ideological anti-union obsessions?</p>
<p>I think not. I suspect that not even Ratsak wants the association&#8230;.</p>
<p>I really hope the media ask some hard questions of itself about this story, which &#8211; after all &#8211; led the front page of our national broadsheet and was clearly designed to set the agenda for the day and dovetails perfectly into the rhetoric and verbiage of the Coalition Government&#8230;.</p>
<p>Is Dennis Shanahan for real?</p>
<p>I guess Paul Kelly is just happy he wasn&#8217;t lumbered or instructed to write this rubbish&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Megan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/09/morgan-56-44-2/comment-page-9/#comment-73176</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/692#comment-73176</guid>
		<description>Here,here,Michael....I&#039;ve written 2 posts as he is the one person I was going to pace the pavements for in his attempt at a seat in the senate.
Such a thoroughly decent bloke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here,here,Michael&#8230;.I&#8217;ve written 2 posts as he is the one person I was going to pace the pavements for in his attempt at a seat in the senate.<br />
Such a thoroughly decent bloke.</p>
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