Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth

A classic from the vault

Time for a new thread. For the want of anything better to hang it off, I hereby reprint my piece in Crikey last week on prospects for the Senate. This does not mean discussion on this thread need be relevant to this topic.

Like so much else this year, speculation about the Senate election has been guided by “the narrowing”: that mystical force that would drive swinging voters to the Coalition once the campaign focused minds on economic management. It’s now clear to all but a dwindling band of die-hards that this hasn’t happened and isn’t about to.

It is thus necessary to revise the view that the Coalition will be strong enough in the Senate to make life difficult for an incoming Rudd Government. The Liberals and Nationals instead find themselves in danger of losing a swag of seats, which opens up a dizzying range of possibilities for the Greens.

A case in point is Kerry Nettle’s bid for re-election in New South Wales. Earlier in the year it seemed safe to assume there would be a traditional three-all split between left and right, with Nettle fighting a probably losing battle with Labor’s number three, Senator Ursula Stephens. In that context, any improvement in the Labor vote would have been damaging for Nettle. Now it seems Labor might be strong enough to win Stephens a seat without excluding Nettle, perhaps even bequeathing her a measurable surplus as preferences. That would boost Nettle’s chances of overtaking and defeating the Coalition’s third candidate, Senator Marise Payne.

The story is similar in Victoria, given that Labor and the Democrats have thought better of repeating their 2004 preference exchanges with Family First (who nonetheless have a vague chance if they can match their vote at the state election).

There has been a further stroke of good fortune for the Greens with the entry of independent Nick Xenophon in South Australia. Such is Xenophon’s popularity that he looks likely not only to win a quota in his own right, but also to deliver the Greens a substantial surplus. This could help their candidate Sarah Hanson-Young overcome the third Labor candidate, Cathy Perry.

Bob Brown should have no trouble winning a seat in Tasmania, the question being how the remaining five seats will divide between Labor and Liberal. There is familiar talk that Brown might do well enough to also carry running mate Andrew Wilkie over the line, but this at least seems a little too optimistic.

The two states where Labor’s strength does not help the Greens are Western Australia and Queensland. Western Australia does not look likely to produce the huge swing required to cost the Liberals a third seat, so a strong hike in the Labor vote has the potential to squeeze out the Greens. Nonetheless, their candidate Scott Ludlam remains the firm favourite.

Labor is also becoming hopeful of winning a third seat in Queensland, which it has never done before at a six-seat half-Senate election. On the other side of the ledger, there is a chance that the Coalition will lose the seat of Nationals Senator Ron Boswell to Family First, who will harness the entire right-of-centre vote if they get ahead of Pauline Hanson. It’s hard to see how Hanson herself could put a quota together, despite all that has been written about her minor successes in preference negotiations.

The remaining wild card is the Australian Capital Territory, where Greens candidate Kerrie Tucker threatens an historic win at the expense of Liberal incumbent Gary Humphries. This would be especially significant because territory Senators’ terms are tied to the House of Representatives, so that an end to the Coalition’s absolute majority would take effect immediately.

While it is likely that not all of these potential Greens wins will come off, they will probably have around five Senators joining the two continuing from the 2004 election, to be joined on the cross benches by Nick Xenophon and continuing Family First Senator Steve Fielding. The Coalition will be reduced from its current majority of 39 seats out of 76 to around 35, while Labor should increase its current 28 seats by four.

1,322 Comments

  1. 1
    NB
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Election 2007 Play List (In no particular order)

    Express yourself, Eric B and Rakim
    Another one bites the dust, Queen
    The final countdown, Europe
    Wont get fooled again, The Who
    Blue sky mine, Midnight Oil
    Should I stay or should I go, The Clash
    Changes, David Bowie
    Gone daddy gone, Violent Femes
    One angry dwarf and 200 solemn faces, Ben Folds Five
    Power in a union, Billy Bragg
    Killing in the name, Rage Against the Machine
    Bottom Line, Big Audio Dynamite
    From little things big things grow, Paul Kelly
    Beautiful day, U2
    Am I ever gonna see your face again, The Angels (including the extra lyrics)

    And finally….

    Non, je ne regrette rien, The immortal Edith Piaf

  2. 2
    cityblue
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    For all the Greens talk about how big and bad Labor is, could the irony be that Labor ends up delivering the Greens a meaningful parliamentary presence?

  3. 3
    chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    cityblue it works both ways

  4. 4
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Costello made an announcement today saying that Labor’s policy costing would not be available until at least Friday if at all – due to Kevin Rudd being a sneak.

    But this was overshadowed by the “ineligable 13″ story revealed by Robb at the same press conference.

    Are the Libs really trying to win this election at all?

  5. 5
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Please, no more “yay me first” type comments.

  6. 6
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    NB…

    I rather like Alan Parsons..

    eye in the sky
    turn of a friendly card

    Or if you like an excuse to annoy the neighbors..

    Frida – theres something going on. (on repeat)

  7. 7
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Hey William. just some friendly advice from someone who runs a number of bandwidth-hungry servers in both Oz and the US :-)

    I don’t know how much control you have over the way your blog works, but I think it would be a good idea to remove the “Show All” link you have in each thread as it mean a ridiculous amount of traffic every time some moron refreshes the page (if they are in that view).

    For example, your Galaxy: 52-48 in “marginals” thread, expanded to show all 10 pages, is a whopping 600K+ in size – imagine that page being refreshed several times, by several people, over and over…

    Just a thought….

  8. 8
    Jude
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    You shameless cheat NB! Repeating your previous post – tisk tisk.

  9. 9
    chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    cityblue what if green prefs get labor over the line in bennelong, nth sydney, and wentworth? will you be chuffed or what?

  10. 10
    Asanque
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    cityblue: ALP winning many lower house seats will be largely assisted by the greens.

    Its a win win for both.

  11. 11
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Not sure I know how to do that George, but I’ll look into it. Would anyone know how to tinker with my paged comments plugin so it doesn’t take you back to page one when you submit a comment?

  12. 12
    Jude
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    You’ll notice William that I wasn’t expecting to be first – I was just wondering what it would be like.

  13. 13
    Jim
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Ineligibility debacle leading on 5pm ABC news

  14. 14
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Kevin Rudd brands Peter Costello a ‘right wing radical’ (news radio). Um.. so er.. whats new?

  15. 15
    areaman
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Glover said one possible take is that LNP is expecting to lose those seats.

    I doubt they expect the ALP to pick up second ACt senate spot. It looks like they just did a google search and listed anyone who’s name hadn’t been take off governmental websites, pretty weak.

  16. 16
    NB
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Jude,

    I’m egotistical to think that it’s actually a nice theme, although others are free to disagree. So I repeated it because I didn’t want it to get lost at the end of the last thread. Again, sorry William I know we’re eating your bandwidth.

  17. 17
    Asanque
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    The only reason the Libs pulled this stunt was to get Downer and the AWB affair off the front bench.

    Dirty dirty politics.

  18. 18
    chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    what about cricket?, should customise a cricket ball with bushy eyebrows.

  19. 19
    Asanque
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    front bench = front page

  20. 20
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    The problem for the Libs is that most people have no idea how our electoral system works. So saying a candidate is ineligible will mean jack squat to these people. Too technical and as boring as all get out. You might as well rabbit on about party factions for all the good it does.

  21. 21
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    ABC radio BrisVegas.

    All ALP candidates have resigned positions and they are all proper. :-P

  22. 22
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    21 – That will make Robb look a goose.

  23. 23
    Jude
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    More unsolicited advice from Alexander. I suppose in his next life he could write a book of etiquette:

    LABOR Labor leader Kevin Rudd’s “cocky little smirk” and cliche-driven style won’t wash with voters, says Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22790661-12377,00.html

  24. 24
    cb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    William I was wondering that myself – going back to page 1 gives me the shits but i thought it was me and my slow machine

  25. 25
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    I think a bit of silliness and light heartedness is a good thing on a blog like this.

  26. 26
    Chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Gary @20

    People are so p#issed off with elections that the prospect of a by-election, no matter how fanciful, could make them vote for candidte who will stay his/her term.

  27. 27
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    21 hope that is correct. If so, I’m upping my prediction to 90, and pleading with Gillard to say, “Right enough of playing nice f***knuckes, lets spell out some ome truths…

  28. 28
    Nick
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone done the latest GG/Online Opinion poll? Someone in there must have a sense of humour, one of the questions asks you to describe what kind of dog both Howard and Rudd would be if they were dogs, and why….

  29. 29
    cb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    25 Mad Cow I think thats what makes this site work – I dont comment much though – I like to watch

  30. 30
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    ruawake, got a link?

  31. 31
    Let It End
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Gary Bruce Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    21 – That will make Robb look a goose.

    Like many Libs, he actually doesn’t require any external assistance for that.

  32. 32
    Sinic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    #21

    When is this going to hit the front pages of news ltd? Rudd needs to get all over this NOW (any ALP staffers reading please get the campaign team onto it).

  33. 33
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    cb, it wouldn’t surprise me if William is a bit short on sleep at this moment. Makes me nervous to comment on the blog itself (duck).

  34. 34
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    I think the worst case for the Libs with this stunt is that it becomes their Ralph Willis moment.

  35. 35
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Sorry I will be off-topic but everytime a post is placed on this blog it gets 100 responses within a minute. So I’ll try to be one of the first.

    Let’s first introduce myself. I migrated from Italy, joined the Australian Labor Party in 1982 and did not renew my membership in 2005. This was a combination of my anger that Labor did not counteract Howard on the Tampa in 2001, my disinchantment with Australia generally after the above mentioned Tampa, 9/11 etc and the associated islamophobia etc. and the fact that I had a young family and I did not have the time to devote to political activities.

    I still remained an ALP voter. I guess my political beliefs would be closer to the Greens but I somewhat got a bit annoyed at they holier-than-thou attitude.

    I will be voting ALP for the House of Representatives and Green for the Senate. Living in one of the safest Labor seats in the country (Batman) it doesn’t really matter.

    However, I am not an Howard hater. I think that he really believes that his actions are the best for Australia. I believe that on that account he is genuine, and in a sense this is what it makes it so sad that when we were on a path of becoming a forward looking country, he dragged us back by limiting our horizons – and many Australians agreed with him.

    I am also alarmed by the chortling and gloating that many contributors have done here over the past few months based on the polls.

    I fear that if Howard wins on Saturday (which is still a possibility) many of you will be so shattered after believing so firmly for such a long time that Howard would be tossed out. I hope you can take it on the chin. It will be really disappointing but life goes on. There are things beside politics.

    Australia has a fantastic environment. Just its skies are beautiful. Should the result not go our way. Just wake up on Sunday. Avoid all media (especially The Australian!) and look upwards and take a big breath.

    It still nice living here.

  36. 36
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    26 Chris – I’m not convinced they would change their vote for that reason. I have no evidence one way or the other, but I’m not convinced of that argument.

  37. 37
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    William, have you considered setting up an IRC channel somewhere for election night so that the site doesn’t melt down?

  38. 38
    Chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    35 But Robb obvoiusly thinks it’s worth a go.

  39. 39
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    very good idea Dave :)

  40. 40
    John Hunt Is A Coward
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    ABC Radio PM show are leading with Workchoices Mark 2 cover up.

  41. 41
    Nick
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    This made my heart sink a little…. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22791429-5013871,00.html

    When the Greens hold the balance of power in the Senate and Labor’s getting frustrated that they can’t pass their “slightly-less-WorkChoices-ish” IR legislation, this statement is going to come back to haunt them. Especially seeing as the Greens are much less inclined to compromise than the Dems were over the GST for eg.

  42. 42
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    That Downer, what a d1ck

  43. 43
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Looks like little Lexy may save the day after all.

    “Mr Downer says he wants the 16 countries at the meeting, including China and India, to sign an agreement on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

    “If we can get their agreement to energy intensity improvements, that is using energy more efficiently, if we can get their agreement to greater efforts in the area of reforestation, that would be a great achievement, that would be enormously important,” he said.

    I can imagine him running back on his widdle fat legs saying ” You don’t have to vote us out , look look what we have, we’re green, we’re green, we believe, we believe.”

  44. 44
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Its all the fault of the voters! heh

  45. 45
    cb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    mc – I haven’t slept much this week and am a nervous wreck – god knows what William’s doing – I can’t even get a rational argument happening with myself – optimism level – ahhhhhh 60% – wringing hands

  46. 46
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    My campaign video playlist:

    The sounds of silence (After John Howard)
    The Party’s Over (The Party’s Over)
    Forgotten Years (not, not… responsible)
    Bright Side of Life (Dead Parrots Society)

    For light relief and some serious satire: “Labor View from Broome’

  47. 47
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    37 Chris – desperation will do that to you. For this to work at all the allegation must be substantiated or you look tricky and this government doesn’t need another example of looking tricky.

  48. 48
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    William, have you considered setting up an IRC channel somewhere for election night so that the site doesn’t melt down?

    Great question Dave, I have begun preliminary inquiries into doing just that. However, I am a complete babe in the woods when it comes to this kind of thing, so I would love to hear from anyone who has any expertise in this area. Email me at pollbludger – AT – bigpond – DOT – com.

  49. 49
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Penny Wong demolished the Robb claim on 10 News. Robb looked flustered and uncertain – as though he was not really believing what he was saying.

  50. 50
    KeepingALidOnIt
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    I posted this on Possum Comitatus:

    From the reporting, all that I can see is that the LNP has collected together a list of 13 candidates who were previously public servants. That’s all. They have taken George Newhouse’s situation and then said that “it might be possible” that the other candidates are in the same situation. The legal advice appears to pertain to the question of whether a by-election would have to be held if a candidate were found to have failed to resign in time. Well derrrr. We knew that a by-election was an inevitable result of such a finding.

    See how slippery this is? No proof, just an assertion that they were public servants, therefore they may be in the same situation as the dill in Wentworth. They don’t actually have the proof at present that those 13 candidates have failed to resign. So the candidates are now being forced to come out and say they are okay, thereby distracting us from the IR referendum (oops sorry the election).

    It may backfire on them actually – just heard the Victorian candidate on ABC 774 – great! 13 candidates, otherwise undistinguished, going on the media to confirm what great candidates they are!!

  51. 51
    cityblue
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    41 Bob Brown said at the national press Club that they would not block Labor’s Workplace Changes

  52. 52
    aj
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Labor slams desperate libs

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22790836-661,00.html

  53. 53
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Mad Moo

    No link just heard it on the 4:00 News (Qld Time).

  54. 54
    mike
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    It just smells very desparate and people don’t like technical arguments so it can only be a negative for the Libs. Look at Newhouse. Prior to all this talk he was getting no traction at all in Wentworth. Since then the whole electorate knows it is a tight race. I think it has helped him. And those well educated swingers in the eastern suburbs won’t like it at all as it smacks of smear….

    there will be plenty more sh$t throwing before the week is out… Labor will do well not to throw too much back….

    on more positive things… looking forward to the ministerial accountability announcement and linking that into AWB, Imigration department, Haneef… etc etc….

  55. 55
    Deo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Even the Herald Sun is saying that this is likely to be a major embarrasement for the libs.

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22790836-661,00.html

  56. 56
    Nick
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Cityblue @ 51: Well I’ll be. Bob Brown seems rather determined to embrace a Rudd govt, despite Rudd seemingly not wanting to know him.

  57. 57
    Ashley
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Howard has moved out to 1.60 on centrebet (bennelong) for the first time in about 2 months or so.

  58. 58
    PJK for President
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    NB Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    Election 2007 Play List (In no particular order)

    Excellent – now how about you configure it a an iTunes list…

  59. 59
    Jim
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Too late – its out there.

    The lasting impression will be possible Labor stuff-up, not LNP smear.

  60. 60
    Basil Fawlty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Blindoptimist 907 in previous topic said:

    “The coalition really must think the public are idiots – a fatally wrong assumption on their part, as they will soon discover”

    Are you sure about that, remember Tampa, kids overboard, WMD, AWB and so the list goes on and on and on

  61. 61
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    “In what is likely to prove as a major embarrassment for Liberal Party campaign spokesman Andrew Robb, Labor has refuted claims the 13 hopefuls are all ineligible because they failed to resign from Commonwealth jobs before nominating for parliament.” (Herald – Sun)
    This story just turned nasty on the Libs – the headlines tomorrow won’t be pleasant for them.

  62. 62
    Snoopy Doo Doo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Rumour has it that Howard’s former mistress will go public in the next few days and declare herself against WorkChoices. Is this idle gossip or something else?

  63. 63
    cityblue
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Nick @ 56 It shows that Bob Brown has learnt from the stuff ups by the Greens in Victoria and won’t allow the Greens to be labelled as “pro-Workchoices” like the greens in Victoria were labelled “pro-nuclear” when tehy voted down a anti-nuclear bill earlier this year.

  64. 64
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    This story had little time to be seen as a stuff up by Labor (of course it wasn;t anyway). The WHOLE story will be told tonight and tomorrow and it is a bad look for the Libs.

  65. 65
    GetReal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Thanks William for this free-fire zone!

    Anyway, when the Libs are reduced to using websites as the basis for their claims its quite clear that they are trying to latch on to anything to distract attention for WorkChoices Mark 2, otherwise known as the “Arbiet Macht Frei” employment policy…

    A person may well have been on a board, or council…it doesn’t make them responsible for the updating of the body’s bleeding website….

    Give me a break

    also, btw, has anybody seen Jeff Kennett with his new ‘tash? surely it must be done for charity…otherwise he’s angling for the job of “arbeits-gauleiter-uberalles-steh-auf” ambassadorship in a returned Howard government…..

    and yes, I know what he is on the record as thinking of both Howard and Costello!

    anyway, just hope the cameraden in the NSW Liberal right cabal are going to be up for a bit of counselling from beyond blue once this all goes down…alex hawke, david clarke and john howard group therapy is now in session…

    And Guido: welcome back!

  66. 66
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    JIm @ 59:

    Wrong mate, Labor has rejected it lock stock and barrel. This will hit the 6 O’clock news and the current affairs shows as a desparate Libs smear campaign gone wrong.!

  67. 67
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Have you read that Hwoard doesn’t fake it with Costello?

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/not-faking-pm/2007/11/20/1195321747836.html

  68. 68
    banana
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    @62: ???

  69. 69
    Let It End
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    ooppss, another own goal by the libs. I suggested they would implode but my God even I can’t believe how pathetic, panicked and desperate they have become.

    One thing we do know now is they DO NOT believe they have a hope in hell. There is no way they would panic and clutch at desperation like this if they thought they had even a remote chance of hanging in.

  70. 70
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Jim. it’s out there now??? are you kidding. average jo and joanne are stuck in their cars at peak hour listen to a couple of moron comedians spin tunes from 90’s boy bands and Oz idol winners. OR they are at home doing the after school battle with the kids… “no jimmy you cant have another coke. sit down and watch the telly or play your playstation!”. OR they are still at work, or at the gym etc….

    its only us that have probably taken too much notice of this. it’ll all be gone in about 40 mins. Tony Jones will chuckle about tonight in his intro and then it will exist no more….

  71. 71
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    @60 Mr Fawlty

    It’s grevious isn’t it.

  72. 72
    Nick
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    cityblue @ 63: I like this new direction from the Greens, I think their moral high horse, holier than thou attitude has definitely hurt them in the past, and if they want to become a major contender they will need to make some painful ideological compromises of the kind that the major parties make all the time. This could be some small steps in the right direction imho.

  73. 73
    Snoopy Doo Doo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Where has the ALP refuted the Andrew Robb claims?

  74. 74
    onimod
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    62 Snoopy
    That’ll rock my world!!

  75. 75
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    So have Labor responded? You must link when you reference! What sort of Lefty intellectual snobs are youz?

  76. 76
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Oakes will go big time on the Robb blunder. It will be a shocking look for the Libs in tomorows MSM – reinforcing the “mean and tricky” image. Their campaign is unravelling like none other in recent memory.

  77. 77
    Historic Election
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Centrebet is narrowing though

  78. 78
    Nick
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Snoopy Doo Doo @ 73: right here – http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22790836-661,00.html

  79. 79
    Goodbye Mr Thatcher
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    As Gillard said once before, the bastards will drown in their own mud.

  80. 80
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Snoopy Doo Doo – try 52 for the link.

  81. 81
    TW
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    “Rumour has it that Howard’s former mistress will go public in the next few days and declare herself against WorkChoices. Is this idle gossip or something else?”

    Yes, but what does his current mistress think?

  82. 82
    Basil Fawlty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    William, just kicked some more in the tin for bandwidth, keep up the great work, will put some more in when my bets come in after Saturday (oh happy days).

  83. 83
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Snoopy – Penny Wong held a press conference and called it desperate politics from a Government that had nothing to say.

  84. 84
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    the link:
    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22790836-661,00.html

  85. 85
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone else here (straight) get perturbed by the Howard and Costello duo interview? How many think that ppl would have seen and heard that and gone ‘EEEwwwwWW!’

    I know I was dry retching on the inside.

  86. 86
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    77 Historic Election – it is but the fit hasn’t hit the shan yet. What a stupid thing for Rob to do.

  87. 87
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    I am reading a book “Excellent cadavers” about the mafia assassination of the leading anti-mafia prosecutors, Falcone and Borsellino. After they were killed, everyone said “You just cant beat the mafia” except for one former mafiaboss turned informer who said “No, you are all wrong. This is a sign that they are totally desperate and they are about to lose.”
    This desperate and despicable act by Team Rodent and Robb will be seen in the same light when the bloodbath takes place on Saturday. Let there be no compassion for such a deplorable bunch who have run the country based on the politics of greed and fear.

  88. 88
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22790836-661,00.html

    Read and weep Rodent felchers.

  89. 89
    Basil Fawlty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Tell me please, who is the current mistress, is it Dolly?

  90. 90
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    85 Gerr – please, do we have to talk about it? I’ll be eating very soon.

  91. 91
    Jim
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    The Labor denial was firstly in edited into the original article. Then removed. You can limk to it as above, but it seems news has removed the denial from the main web page….?

  92. 92
    Yay for Democracy
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    And here:

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22790994-5012863,00.html

  93. 93
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Robb ‘cobbled the information together from websites’

    Geezuz H. Christ, and this guy is on the tax payers payroll.

    Holy mother of god.

  94. 94
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Snoopy Doo, cut the crap. Jim, you last post just proved if futher proof was nacessary, that you are a vile little toad.

  95. 95
    Glen
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    I’d far rather the Democrats hold the balance of power than the Greens or FF.

  96. 96
    blacklight
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    LIBERAL Party assertions that 13 Labor candidates are ineligible to stand in Saturday’s election are ‘baseless, ridiculous and desperate’ the ALP has claimed.

    In what is likely to prove as a major embarrassment for Liberal Party campaign spokesman Andrew Robb, Labor has refuted claims the 13 hopefuls are all ineligible because they failed to resign from Commonwealth jobs before nominating for parliament.

    Mr Robb said legal advice suggested the ALP candidate for Wentworth, George Newhouse, may be ineligible for parliament and had compounded the problem by refusing to release relevant documentation.

    Twelve other ALP candidates may be similarly affected, Mr Robb said.

    However, Labor has just released a statement saying all 13 resigned from their positions in accordance with electoral guidelines.

    ”All 13 candidates standing for the Australian Labor Party in this Saturday’s election are eligible to stand for public office,” ALP spokesman Alex Cramb said. ”This afternoon’s press conference by Andrew Robb was pure desperation.

    ”The claims against the 13 ALP candidates cited by Andrew Robb were cobbled together from web sites. All 13 candidates are valid and they resigned.

    ”Mr Robb’s claims are baseless, desperate and ridiculous. These claims are completely untrue.
    The Liberal party is desperate. They have nothing left to say”

  97. 97
    blacklight
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    wow.

    so what are the odds on Goldstien now ?

    :D

  98. 98
    Goodbye Mr Thatcher
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Gerr – I saw a clip of it after one on Kevin and Therese’s Morning interview. Costello was talking about his political marriage with Rodent – very unpleasant conjunction of associations.

  99. 99
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    91 Jim – I think you’ll find you are looking at the original story and not the updated one. Penny Wong was on the news.

  100. 100
    RGee
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Glen.. The Natasha or Meg Lees Democrats?

  101. 101
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    85
    Gerr Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pm

    Did anyone else here (straight) get perturbed by the Howard and Costello duo interview? How many think that ppl would have seen and heard that and gone ‘EEEwwwwWW!’

    I know I was dry retching on the inside.

    My wife was watching it at the time ( I refuse to listen to anything Howards says anymore and walked out when it was on ) and she reckons it would of turned even the gays off as well. !

  102. 102
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    ON Channel 10 news Paul Bongiorno just ripped the Libs a new one – “transparent”, “apparently the member in Hinkler is supposed to be working for a agency that no longer exists..”

  103. 103
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    ALP response is still included in this article on the GG

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22791352-601,00.html

  104. 104
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    hahahahhaahahaha The Liberal Party’s legal evidence that the Labor candidates are ineligible?

    They red it on the Labor party website.

    What a bunch of jokers.

  105. 105
    donners
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    i have to say, with the Howard/Costello love-in, the stupid statement by Robb and Howard yesterday promising never ever to repeal, change and virtually set in stone the workchoices legislation for ever (or is that ‘never ever’), it really does seem that their polling must be telling them it’s all over.

  106. 106
    mb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Nick @ 41

    The Greens have given a public commitment to support Labor’s legislation to get rid of WorkChoices, but the Greens will move amendments to strengthen workers’ rights.

    They will be amendments that a lot of unions, who are disappointed wth Labor’s Workchoices lite position, will want.

  107. 107
    BK
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    I hear the creaking sounds of an impending ugly implosion.

  108. 108
    cb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Smirk had the interview first on Sky, accusing Labour of not submitting costings and intimating that this was illegal – then came Robb – Smirk couldnt make the accusations, but let it up to Robb to do the dirty work on Newhouse and the other 12 – and intimating this was illegal as well – I wonder why – duhhh

  109. 109
    Glen
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    RGee the Democrats that could work well with both sides of politics Liberals and Labor.

    Anybody but the Greens, and FF really.

  110. 110
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Getting ahead of myself.

    Anyone ever seen the original Italian Job? With Michael Caine?

    Remember the scene when they pull off the Italian job and news gets back to UK and partic the Mr Big Noel Coward character in jail?

    Remember the scene when all the prison inmates chant and bang their pots and chant Mr Big’s name (cant remember what it is exactly) and Mr Big turns to them like he’s onstage after a grand shakespearean performance?

    That’l be Rudd on Sat night.

  111. 111
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Anybody but the Greens, and FF really.

    Family First will vote with the Liberals on social issues, and with Labor on economic issues.

  112. 112
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Why would the Libs pick someone so unappealing as Robb to go on the news with this? Especially since he’s going to draw fire from the telegenic, articulate Penny Wong.

  113. 113
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    The whole Robb 13 thing was about Wentworth – shows that they really think they will lose the seat.

  114. 114
    Captain Smirky
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Howard and Costello looked like that old gay couple reminiscing on the ‘good old days’, how they survived together in the face of adversity after all those years, stroking up each other egos. For a minute I thought they were about to hold hands. Made me want to vomit. What they forgot to ask was “Peter would you turn gay for Johnnie ” who knows maybe he already has.

  115. 115
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Haven’t heard from Adam for a few days….

  116. 116
    Basil Fawlty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Centrebet now Maxine 2.2, Rattie 1.60, the narrowing, the narrowing.

  117. 117
    Asanque
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    114: Dinsdale Piranha

    Check a few of the old threads.
    He said he’d be too busy to contribute until the election.

  118. 118
    Tristan Jones
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Rates Analyst, reply from the previous thread.

    The North Sydney Poll was reported on the Blog http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/728

    Adelaide Advertiser Polls, showing a 10% swing to Labor in Hindmarsh and 14% in Adelaide.

    http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22638480-5006301,00.html

    http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22649966-5006301,00.html

    I predict the outer suburban electorates will hold up for the government, while much more safer inner city ones fall to Labor. Say the Liberals in Victoria retaining Latrobe, while losing Kooyong and maybe Higgins. The inner city small ‘l’ Liberal progressives have been wanting to stick it into the Howard government for ages, now they will.

  119. 119
    Paul K
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Robb’s legal advise is worth as much as Turnbull’s Rain Machine.

  120. 120
    Lefty E
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Oh look, only 545pm and already its a “major embarrassment for the LIbs”. As predicted.

    Their useless campaign team needs to be taken to the knackery.

  121. 121
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    As I said in the other thread if Newhouse wins Wentworth and they force a byelection the only result is to make the seat safer for him.

    After all this is what happened in Lindsay in 1996. As William himself has stated.

    Labor’s Ross Free held Lindsay by margins of around 10 per cent throughout the Hawke-Keating years, having previously been member for Macquarie from 1980.

    He was most unpleasantly surprised to find himself voted out in 1996, following an epochal 11.9 per cent swing to Liberal candidate Jackie Kelly.

    Free was able to secure a re-match because Kelly, who did not expect to win, had failed to get her affairs in order before nominating (she was still serving as an RAAF officer, an “office for profit under the Crown”). Voters dragged back to the polls on a technicality rewarded Free with a further 6.8 per cent drop in the primary vote, and Kelly picked up another 5.0 per cent on two-party preferred.

    The combined 16.9 per cent swing to the Liberals meant the electorate’s demographic profile came to be seen as typifying John Howard’s constituency – high numbers of skilled workers on good incomes, low levels of tertiary education and a distinctly less multicultural flavour than suburbs closer to the city.

  122. 122
    SeanofPerth
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    116, i put on a bet at $2.70 ill be a happy man if the rodent loses his seat

  123. 123
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    If the Libs had just gone after Newhouse they MAY have been able to make a case or at least give the impression they had one, but as usual they went too far and included 12 others. Now, because they’ve been found out to be wrong on these 12, their case against Newhouse is obliterated along with the 12.

  124. 124
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    The Libs are covered in it and the steam is arising.

  125. 125
    adrian
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    “Why would the Libs pick someone so unappealing as Robb to go on the news with this?”

    When you look at the alternatives available they probably drew his name out of a hat.

  126. 126
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Has Loughnane been boned and Robb is now running the show? :-P

  127. 127
    Rates Analyst
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Tristan

  128. 128
    A-C
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    To all those Labor hacks here, what evidence has your HQ put out that proves that these nominations were legal?

  129. 129
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    This talk of previously safe liberal seats looking risky while holding on to the spiv vote is very similar to what happened in the US from the 1960s onwards. The democrats were once the party of the rural south, while the republicans were the party of old money and industry in the north. Civil rights, Vietnam and oil shocks changed all that, and now, as we know, the “red states” are in the south and the democrats hold the north east, north west and California

    Are we witnessing an “inversion” in Australia?

  130. 130
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    A-C, The burden of proof lies with Robb.

  131. 131
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    A-C

    How does a candidate resign from a position that no longer exists?

  132. 132
    banana
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    A-C@128, Half of the organisations the Libs are saying the candidates work for don’t even EXIST any longer.

  133. 133
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    what was that site that was going to have booth by booth results on saturday night?

  134. 134
    donners
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    it really is no surprise that this mean and vicious group of ‘born-to-rulers’ would be mean and viscous right up to the bitter end – they should all go home and write an essay about dignity. They certainly aren’t going to bow out graciously…

  135. 135
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    To all those Labor hacks here, what evidence has your HQ put out that proves that these nominations were legal?

    The fact the Liberal’s evidence is a webpage!

  136. 136
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    what was that site that was going to have booth by booth results on saturday night?

    http://www.orgburo.com/elections/

  137. 137
    Dinsdale Piranha
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    The last time a defendant was required to disprove allegations was the Spanish Inquisition….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZQI0Xm29To

  138. 138
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    My HoR and senate prediction as entered into the Crikey tipping competition. I used the Roy Morgan senate poll to get my senate results so I will probably be way off :)

    http://australiavotes2007.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-prediction.html

  139. 139
    Ashley
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    “(Centrebet CEO) Mr Kafataris said he was surprised by the volume of election betting taking place.

    “In one hour this morning, we took $120,000 on Labor from $1.20 to $1.17 and $100,000 on the Coalition at around $5.”

    “It’s unbelievable … the interest in it.”

    “The election book is our biggest turnover book of the year. We would hold upwards of $4 to $5 million on the event.”

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=104544

  140. 140
    BV
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    This farce and further loss of a day to put out any positive messages was authorised by B Loughnane, Liberal Party, Canberra.

  141. 141
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Am I right to assume this whole candidacy thing has been overblown and will be quickly forgotten?

  142. 142
    GetReal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    “In what is likely to prove as a major embarrassment for Liberal Party campaign spokesman Andrew Robb….”

    Herald Sun tells the truth….

  143. 143
    blehygu
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    109
    Glen Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
    RGee the Democrats that could work well with both sides of politics Liberals and Labor.

    Anybody but the Greens, and FF really
    ————————————————-

    That is complete nonsense – the Democrats concur with the greens on like 95% of issues. Therefore if the Greens are radical, so are the Democrats, and so are the scientists that provide the foundation for their policies. If anything, The Coalition should be getting a battering from the media on their ‘dirty’ labelling.

  144. 144
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Am I right to assume this whole candidacy thing has been overblown and will be quickly forgotten?

    They have legal opinion for Wentworth, the 12 other allegations are just fear, uncertainty, and doubt based on Labor candidate resumes. It doesn’t take into account whether or not they have resigned. It just says sometime in their past they had government jobs.

  145. 145
    John of Melbourne
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Hi all can’t stay long but this was in Crikey today:

    2. The Kevin conundrum
    Christian Kerr writes:

    The most interesting poll appears only after a federal election. It is the Australian National University’s Australian Electoral Survey.

    It asks: “When did you decide how you would definitely vote in this election?”

    In 2004, 14.2% of respondents answered “A few days before the election”, with 8.6% saying they only made up their minds on the day. That means that at this stage in the last campaign, more than one in five voters had not yet made up their minds.

    We are four days away from the election. All the polls point to a Labor win. But what if they are missing something? Labor only needs a swing of 4.8% to win government, but if things are like last time more than 20% of the electorate are yet to decide how they are going to vote.

    Last week many papers ran photos of Kevin Rudd in his school nerd days, as captain of the Nambour High debating team. He seems to have forgotten one crucial lesson from back then. You can make a fantastic case in a debate, but if you do not rebut your opponents’ arguments you simply will not win.

    There is a real danger in Rudd’s election strategy. He says he will barely change a thing. So why should voters change the government?

    Crikey’s Morgan polling tries to identify “soft” Labor voters, people who believe the country is heading in the right direction, but still say they are voting Labor.

    There are plenty of them. According to Morgan’s most recent face-to-face poll, 21% of all electors are soft Labor voters. What if they change their minds?

    The polls say we will elect a Labor government, but they also say we believe the Liberals are superior economic managers, even after the recent interest rate rise. That contradicts political logic.

    “I can’t explain why they are going to throw the government out,” one Labor MP told me last week. “I have a nagging worry they won’t.”

    “They like the message, but they don’t like the messenger,” a senior Liberal staffer said of their research into voters’ views.

    “They don’t like Howard, they don’t like Costello but they like the government and like Rudd,” another explained.

    “Rudd’s popular, but he hasn’t made a case for change,” a minister claimed.

    Liberal MPs say that they have not picked up any real anger with the government, yet report a desire for change. That is the conundrum of this campaign.

    Kevin Rudd has said he is an economic conservative. For most of the time he has been Labor leader, he has gone out of his way to minimise the policy differences between his party and the Liberals. So if Rudd represents no change – or little change – why change governments? It would just be change for change’s sake.

    Australians are conservative about changing federal governments. We have only done it five times since World War II, and never when the economy looks so robust.

    Will the undecided voters back the government? Will the soft Labor voters stop their flirtation? The ANU’s Ian McAllister says undecided voters “tend to be swayed by policies, they tend to be swayed by their own particular economic self-interest”.

    He describes them as “people who are making much more rational calculating decisions about their votes”.

    Or will the votes of people yet to make up their minds likely to follow the direction the polls have pointed in all year? We will have the answer soon enough.

    Send your tips to boss@crikey.com.au , submit them anonymously here or SMS tips and photos to 0427 TIP OFF.

  146. 146
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Channel 7 news Melbourne was on Workchoices and a cover up by the Libs and nothing else. Fantastic.

  147. 147
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    John of Melbourne, it’s quite well known psychologically that people say they make up their minds in the last days or on their way just so it sounds like their open to the suggestion of changing their mind.

    In actual fact there’s very little difference between polling aggregates and the final result.

  148. 148
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Gary Bruce, it was the same with 9 news. Of course we can expect screaming headlines in the News Ltd tabloids tomorrow:

    “RUDD SHOCK: 13 CANDIDATES CAN’T BE ELECTED, FIND OUT IT ONE IS YOURS”

  149. 149
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    William – another suggestion to save on bandwidth – have the site default to the last page of comments, not the first, after someone posts a comment. Otherwise you automatically incur two page views (one to load the first page, another to get to the most recent page).

  150. 150
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    A-C your obvious anger over how the Libs have stuffrd this up is understandable.

  151. 151
    John of Melbourne
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Patrick Bateman I concur, you can do it William.

  152. 152
    mb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Turnbull’s campaign workers have been spotted removing Greens placards on electricity poles in Wentworth and putting up his ones instead. As a Greens member normally I would feel annoyed by that, but it is an encouraging sign that the Liberal party is desperate.

  153. 153
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    ding buzz
    ding buzz
    ding buzz

  154. 154
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    HAHAHAHAHA…..no mention of the “Mr Robb 13″ on channel eddy in Melbourne

  155. 155
    Captain Smirky
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Howard says he hasnt encountered anger over workchoices.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/20/2096283.htm?section=justin

    Did he forget to add “in my own household” or “while praying at church on Sunday”

  156. 156
    John of Melbourne
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    RE Wombat no mention on PM either at least in the first 20 minutes I heard. Probably too late to make the news.

  157. 157
    Noocat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Yep, nothing on either Channel 7 or 9 news on the 13 “ineligible” candidates. The media might already be marking this as a baseless scare tactic and moving on.

  158. 158
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    148 Lose the election please – your right in that it will be in the papers tomorrow but you have the heading wrong. It will be along the lines of “Libs shoot themselves in the foot”. They have proven to be incorrect. This is ‘embarrassment’ time.

  159. 159
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    HAHAHAHA……………..no mention of Mr Robb or his crap on channel eddy in Melbourne!

  160. 160
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Yep, nothing on either Channel 7 or 9 news on the 13 “ineligible” candidates. The media might already be marking this as a baseless scare tactic and moving on.

    But the ABC TV News will spin it in favour of Howard :-(

  161. 161
    Julie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    45
    cb Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
    mc – I haven’t slept much this week and am a nervous wreck – god knows what William’s doing – I can’t even get a rational argument happening with myself – optimism level – ahhhhhh 60% – wringing hands

    cb, I find myself getting there fast …. my optimism level though is very high, it is just the angst, top to bottom, from the other side that I am finding at times difficult to deal with. This is my first federal election in Australia. Have other elections always been like this in the last week or is this election unique in that respect? I don’t have any other to personally judge it by.

  162. 162
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    mb, if you’re really lucky you might get a celebrity to help out with handing out HTV cards on the day!

    Senator Heffernan.

  163. 163
    Therapy
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    How can you say that Xenophon has improved the chances for The Greens? His preferences are split evenly between Family First and The Greens. If FF (who have a strong presence in SA and outpolled The Greens in the Upper House in the 2006 state election) outpoll The Greens, then they will be the ones who benefit from Nick’s surplus. Xenophon’s entry has pretty much halved The Greens’ chances.

  164. 164
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    The tawdryness of this latest Liberal attack on Labor reminds me of Malaysia’s Dr.Mahatir’s attacks on his political enemies. the outrageous lies and dissembling, the low Macchiavellian cunning of the accusations, the abuse of the trappings of office, the manipulation of the compliant media, it is all there.

    I love this country, but I am ashamed and disgusted at what it has become politically because of the actions and ruthless mentality of it’s leadership and Government over the last eleven years.

    I don’t know how things will pan out under the Rudd administration. I can only hope they will put an end to my embaressment as a citizen of this nation. It won’t take much to be an improvement.

  165. 165
    Ashley
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    William is already aware of the comment submission -> back to front page issue.

  166. 166
    frank frederic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    regarding using IRC…

    William Bowe@,
    May I take this opportunity to thank and congratulate you for providing the great work/service.

    Please keep in mind that IRC programs/protocols are blocked for many of us at work.

    This will not be a big deal on election day (Saturday) and “celebration day” (Sunday :) where most if not all of us will be at home.
    During week days / working days, however, this might be a problem.

    PS. Will you run this blog beyond next week, William?

  167. 167
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    The last time a defendant was required to disprove allegations was the Spanish Inquisition….

    NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION.

    But seriously, I thought the last time a defendant was required to disprove allegations was about three months ago in an attempted Queensland show trial run by Kevin Andrews and Mick “incompetent” Keelty. Luckily for the defendant they were able to disprove it, this time.

  168. 168
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    #1
    Can I include ‘Ding Dong, the witch is dead’ in the play list?

  169. 169
    BV
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    This is just the thing to spur ALP supporters on till Saturday!

  170. 170
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    The tawdryness of this latest Liberal attack on Labor reminds me of Malaysia’s Dr.Mahatir’s attacks on his political enemies. the outrageous lies and dissembling, the low Macchiavellian cunning of the accusations, the abuse of the trappings of office, the manipulation of the compliant media, it is all there.

    Same for me – the very first thing I thought of was Singapore and Russia, elections being rigged indirectly by declaring opposition candidates “illegal” or “ineligible” or otherwise using the courts as an avenue to shut them down.

    The ALP should seek an urgent injuction in the High Court preventing the Libs from peddling these lies until after the election. They would get one.

  171. 171
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Do you think the Libs ever intended the 13 candidates story to be a major thing? Is it possible it was just made as some throw-away comment that got blown into a big story?

    I haven’t seen the footage so I couldn’t know.

  172. 172
    Howard Hater
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    HA HA HA HA
    We have 2 new contenders for “Stuffup Of The Campaign Award!” –
    Andrew Robb and Brian Lochnane.
    This was so scandalous Laurie Oakes didn’t even mention it on Nine news.
    It’s funny how Glen and his Liberal troll mates have gone quiet all of a sudden

  173. 173
    blindoptimist
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    The Liberals will already be regretting they have made these absurd allegations. To the extent they havemade news, they’ve largely made the Liberals look ridiculous and distracted from any chance they had to put a more positive message out. The day’s news is the workchoices cover-up and bungling, unsubstantiated allegations against their opponents. Another terrible day on the march to oblivion.

  174. 174
    HarryH
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    what do people think is where Penny Wong’s future lies?

    i see her as a future Attorney General. Oh to have a person of her standard as the country’s guardian instead of the Walking Dead Ruddock.

    she is immensely impressive amongst a lot of hacks on either side of the benches.

    where do others see her ending up?

  175. 175
    Spiros
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    John of Melbourne 145

    There have always been voters who make up their minds late in the piece.

    But all the evidence shows their votes break the same way as those who made up their minds earlier.

    The election is over. As to why the government is getting thrown out on its ear at a time of great prosperity, no one knows. Hence all the nagging doubts about whether it will happen.

    But happen it will.

  176. 176
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    It will only be for Saturday, Frank. Yes, this site will stagger on beyond next week. Thankfully, a huge election drought is looming.

  177. 177
    adrian
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Penny Wong would make a very good Attorney General. She is a smart lady.

  178. 178
    slartybardfast
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    a drop in the ocean, mebbe scare a few Wentworth voters into sticking with Turnbull, more importantly it gets the WC2 stuff off the air. The only thing it actually “proves” is that Newhouse is a moron

    But I think most ppl already knew that and quite a few are going to vote for him anyway

  179. 179
    blehygu
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    163. Therapy:

    1. Split ticket A goes to greens, B goes to fundies first. Like Donkey Vote, more people will choose ticket A. Plus many Liberal voters and more Labor voters will go with ticket A then B, because the Greens are supported more than ff generally.

    2. I’m betting the Greens will outpoll FF by atleast 4% in the senate – the recent polls have shown that, plus if you have been aware during the campaign, a bet such as that is logical.

  180. 180
    Spiros
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Penny Wong is ineligible to be Attorney General because she is a lesbian.

  181. 181
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    what do people think is where Penny Wong’s future lies?

    She certainly seems very capable and principled.

    However, she’s backed by the left, so promotion opportunities may be limited in the current ALP – especially coming from SA, home of the SDA.

  182. 182
    MsLaurie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Hmm, I think Penny Wong could be a great A-G… Another option would be something like Assistant Treasurer, if they wanted to give that job to the Senate. She’s very quick.

  183. 183
    frank frederic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    regarding the “13 candidates ineligible…”

    It is a win-win situation for Howard nevertheless. Even if it turns out a dud, it serves to distract public / media from scrutinising other serious embarrassment for Howard, say WorkChoice.2,… you name it!

  184. 184
    El Nino
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    The loss of Marise Payne would be one of the true tradgedies of this election. She is one of the most intelligent, compassionate and decent politicians on either side of politics. If she is defeated I hope she continues in politcs or in some other capacity in public life. Both sides of politics need more like her.

  185. 185
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Spiros

    We have had a gay Prime Minister before, I don’t see wht we can’t have a gay AG.

  186. 186
    Evan
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Ok, ok, settle down people. There are only two possibilities. The allegation that 13 Labor candidates are ineligibile to stand is either true or untrue.

    If it’s untrue, the Libs will be crucified. It will be seen as the last desperate throw of the dice by a clapped-out, hysterical bunch of scare-monkeys.

    If it’s true in whole or part, consider the prospect of Labor, in Government with a healthy margin, immediately facing between 1 and 13 by-elections.

    That’s the chance of getting between 1 and 13 Jackie Kellys. A chance of increasing their bag from, say, 85, by a good 10 seats.

    These are, after all, seats that Labor is probably not gonna need to win to form government in any event. Apart from Wentworth, none are marginals.

    Byelections in seats like Ryan will give the good people there a chance to “get with the strength”, as it were, having already seen what the rest of the country has done to Howard and his Merry Men.

    They’ve done it before at a byelection and may relish the chance to do it again.

  187. 187
    Spiros
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    frank frederic, your logic would be impeccable if Howard was way in front.

    But he is way behind. This just chews up valuable catching up time.

  188. 188
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    So what if Penny Wong is a lesbian – at least she has the guts to admit it. She is a smart, very capable woman. Who she chooses to get her rocks off with is irrelevant. :(

  189. 189
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    #183
    But Frank all those things you WC2 etc got mentioned on ch9 news in Melbourne but not the “dirty 13″……hahaha

  190. 190
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Spiros #180.?? I hope that was intended as a joke or an attempt at being sardonic. Otherwise it is the utterance of a fool and I dont believe you are that.

  191. 191
    ChristianW
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Regarding the nomination “scandal” I flicked between both Seven and Nine news here in Sydney to see how it played out.

    Both bulletins led off with lengthy stories about the Workchoices cover-up and featured the same wonderful footage of the Prime Miniature looking shifty and uncomfortable as he answered the media’s questions about it.

    Seven briefly mentioned the nomination “scandal” at the end of the report with a brief snippet of Robb’s press conference followed by Penny Wong’s eloquent reply. Nine DIDNT EVEN MENTION IT!

    If what I hear about Paul Bongiorno’s comments on Ten News is true (ie that he said it was all a desperate Lib beat-up) Id call that a clean sweep for Labor!

  192. 192
    Spiros
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    ruawake 188, I was making an ironic point about stupid claims about ineligibility.

  193. 193
    adrian
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    We’ve had a clinically dead A-G for some time now, so what’s wrong with a lesbian one?

  194. 194
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Cheers Spiros.

  195. 195
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Penny Wong would be absolutely fantastic as AG.

  196. 196
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    “Howard says he hasnt encountered anger over workchoices.”

    That is because his nine bodyguards keep people at a distance.

    All of his appearences are carefully staged managed with his minders gently grabbing his arm and directing him to the next friendly encounter.

    If Howard had had the guts to attend the Melbourne Cup then he and Australia would have seen how unpopular he and his laws are.

    But that is why he did not attend, not a good look to be roundly derided on national TV in the middle of an election campaign.

  197. 197
    Will From Kooyong
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    The Libs ploy could easily backfire on them too. If any of those candidates loses by a few votes, you can be sure there will be a court challenge due to the implication even though it was false.

  198. 198
    gusface
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    arbie

    who?

  199. 199
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Christian W – yep I caught Channel 10 at the half way point in their news when they do a recap of the main stories, they then did a cross to Bongiorno with the line “And Paul how damaging will this be to the ALP?”

    He almost laughed.

    After he finished, my wife said “Wow! talk about an ad for the ALP”.

  200. 200
    Pathological Logic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Will from Kooyong, taking that a step further, it would be truly hilarious if Labor lost the election by razor-thin margins in, say, one or two seats, and used this smear to overturn the margin.

  201. 201
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    What a bunch of Nervous Nellies on this eligibility thing you all are!

    Robb is “playing with Labor’s mind” on this one.

    HE is demanding that LABOR nominees produce proof THEIR nomination is valid. What a bloody cheek! They just can’t get it out of their thick heads that they are NOT born to rule. After Saturday there’ll be more more “demanding” anyone produce anything. They’ll be out of office.

    This is how the public will see it, too.

    The Libs are a bunch of tools. This will play badly for them.

  202. 202
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Evan @ 186

    2 of the other 12 are marginals. 1 in QLD and 1 in SA. If it is true Howard has pulled another rabbit out of his hat and this one is from ‘Monty Python: The Holy Grail’. Quick were is the Holy Hand Granade.

  203. 203
    Kiwipundit
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Arbie J @ 185,

    “We have had a gay Prime Minister before”

    Which Prime Minister was that?

  204. 204
    MGM
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Forgive me if someone’s already pointed this out (have not had time to read all previous posts), but I was just looking at Portlandbet and Labor are now favourites in Corangamite.

  205. 205
    ViggoP
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    JWH drowning, not waving.

  206. 206
    Pathological Logic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Kiwipundit,

    ‘Pixie’ McMahon.

  207. 207
    Derek Corbett
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Julie @ 161

    This election is unique. Normally, the libs run a pretty tight campaign, on message. Howard in control. This one has been a shambles. All over the place. I believe it will go down as their worst in recent history. However, it goes further than just the campaign. Many Australian voters proclaim to not giving a rats about politics but are ruthless when they are dudded. They also have long memories. It all adds up. They have turned on Howard. I am nervous, but … I feel something in the air. I went to a rally in Melbourne and cheered my head off for Gough Whitlam. Now, it seems It’s Time …

    BTW, no mention of Robb on ABC’s PM.

  208. 208
    adrian
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    It will be interesting to see how this plays in the morning papers, particularly if the News Ltd papers beat it up for all it’s worth. Probably be lead story in the GG, but really, who cares.
    If the tabloids go heavy on it, it could become an issue.

  209. 209
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    The loss of Marise Payne would be one of the true tradgedies of this election. She is one of the most intelligent, compassionate and decent politicians on either side of politics. If she is defeated I hope she continues in politcs or in some other capacity in public life. Both sides of politics need more like her.

    I totally agree.

    She is one of the only Lib senators (along with Georgiou and Brandis and one or two others) who is prepared to rise above party politics on matters of real importance. It is a reflection of the pathetic state of the Lib machine that she’s third on the ticket and likely to pay for the hard right wing of her party’s mistakes at this election.

  210. 210
    Slain
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    # 11 William

    If you have the Comment ordering set like thus;

    $paged_comments->ordering = ‘ASC’;

    And your your Default page value set to

    $paged_comments->default_page = ‘auto’; OR ‘first’

    then you will get the behaviour you are seeing.

    change the default page value to

    $paged_comments->default_page = ‘last’;

    OR change

    $paged_comments->ordering = ‘ASC’; to

    $paged_comments->ordering = ‘DESC’;

    and leave

    $paged_comments->default_page = ‘auto’;

    either or dependign on presentation preference, give it a go and see if that does what you want.

    Hope that makes sense :)

  211. 211
    Grumblebum
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    It’s been rumoured that the Libs are a bit short of cash!

    They’ve spent a motza on advertising, mail Etc.

    They’re going to spend a fortune in challenges in the Supreme Court???

    Wouldn’t it be a delicious irony if the party of ‘Australia’s Greatest Economic Team’ went bankrupt after the election.

    I used to be a credit manager and if I were Australia Post or a TV Station I’d have ‘em on no more than a 7 day account.

  212. 212
    Maurico
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of the A/G someone should ask Ruddock how much he got for his soul.

    A lot of nervous nellies on this blog – relax and think of the numbers 85 & 53/47. May I ask those who are not confident of a comfortable ALP win, under what set of circumstances would you be?

  213. 213
    adrian
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Under no circumstances :-)

  214. 214
    Graeme
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    It beggars belief that the ALP’s due diligence would be so lax as to let through a dozen disqualified candidates. One or two maybe if they were latecomers in safe coalition seats.

    I notice Robb denied using government resources to inquire as to the job statuses of the candidates concerned. (Not that that would give them any insight as to state govt posts, or probably local govt or academic ones).

    Does anyone know where the ‘released’ legal advice can be found?

  215. 215
    JFC
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Pancho’s ‘The ABC of Johnny’s Empire’, now with soundtrack

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0yfGLa9YcIY

  216. 216
    AJ
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of the Senate (where this blog originally started) I attempted to predict the Senate based on Antony Greens predictions for each state. If the ALP win the Lower house (which to me seems a given – I have them at 87 to 90 seats) they have almost no chance of having control in the Senate.

    I mangled and crunched the Senate numbers as much as possible but still came up with a new Senate of :
    ALP 30
    LIB/NP 38
    GREEN 5
    FF 2
    DEM 1

    These figures mean that the ALP will need Minor party support for every bill to get any laws passed. Even one defector from the minor parties defeat the bill in the Senate…..I grant my prediction could be wrong BUT:

    a) Why has there been so little attention given to this important outcome? Its hardly had a whisper!

    b) Is a Double Dissolution a real possibility?

  217. 217
    midnothcoast
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    ABC on line leading with the story but a fairly balanced article
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/20/2096105.htm

    Those who have allegiance to a foreign power are ineligible to stand. What is Tony Abbott’s position given his allegiance to the Bishop of Rome (the Sovereign of the Vatican State)

  218. 218
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Nice of Robb to let us all in on the fact that internal Lib polling is suggesting things are as dire as all the published polls suggest.

  219. 219
    Observer
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Graeme@214

    ‘Office of Profit’ is very complicated, not many solicitors are prepared to make a judgement. However, it applies to anywhere or anything, renumeration or whatever from the Government, State or Federal. In fact, if you are in a private company with Government contracts, such as acting as a ‘advisor’ to Government, you could well be judged to be in an ‘Office of Profit’

    Did anyone hear Robb say ‘helligible’?

  220. 220
    Basil Fawlty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    216 AJ,
    If the prediction concerning the Senate is true, then of course a double dissolution is theoretically possible, once the bills have gone thorough the requisite number of times and been defeated. We could then completely cleanse the Parliament of this unrepresentative swill.

  221. 221
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    “We have had a gay Prime Minister before”

    Which Prime Minister was that?

    McMahon

  222. 222
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    AJ if the Coalition had 38 senators then Labor would need more than the support of minor parties. If the 38 voted together they would be able to negative any vote. 76/2=38.

  223. 223
    Greeensborough Growler
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    All these scenarios about the Senate voting assumes the Nats will vote with the Libs. Joyce has already said he will support the Labor IR changes. Smart heads may not want a DD and be prepared to deal.

  224. 224
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    So Barnaby won’t be dealing, GG?

  225. 225
    ruawake
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    Remember Barnaby – he will vote for the IR bills. Maybe. ;)

  226. 226
    SirEggo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Apologies to William for my “yay me first” comment on the Newspoll thread

    Everyone thinks nothing will come of this 13 ineligible seats stuff?

    If they weren’t a mile behind, would the Libs be mentioning possible court challenges?

    If they did challenge, wouldn’t that make them unpopular?

  227. 227
    HarryH
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    GG

    The duplicitious Joyce only said that to try and win the seat for Boswell over the Greens.

    in other words:

    election lie No. 12568

  228. 228
    Will From Kooyong
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Joyce will be an independent within the Senate within a year if he supports Labor’s IR laws. If for some reason the Nats don’t expel him, he will never get preselection for the Senate again and he would have to stand by himself or with some micro-party.

  229. 229
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    In news just to hand, the Liberal Party campaign chief Brian Loughnane has announced the Coalition has employed Donald Segretti to assist over the final few days of the election.

    Mr Loughnane says he expects Mr Segretti will fit right in with the Liberal’s team and ethos. He also indicated he is seeking the avaliability of Howard Hunt.

    When asked for a comment, John Howard merely replied “expletive deleted”.

  230. 230
    Therapy
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    179
    blehygu

    A split senate ticket splits the “1 above the line” 50-50 between FF and The Greens in Xenophon’s case, it’s not the same as handing out 2 how to vote cards (a lower house “split ticket”).

  231. 231
    macd
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    can’t say where i work but overheard a phone conversation this afternoon, (paraphrasing) “…yeah, we’ve checked it with payroll and they’ve got nothing to worry about….”

  232. 232
    Will From Kooyong
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Grog: was that ratf**king?

  233. 233
    Boll
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    #204 MGM, so currently on Portlandbet 81-67-2?

  234. 234
    Antonio
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Spiros, surely it doesn’t matter which Greek island Penny Wong comes from.

  235. 235
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    I’ll be very interested to hear what the Rodent makes of this desperate smear on 7.30 report.

  236. 236
    The Finnigans
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Rudd – Show us your WAY!!!!

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmXSYi49IU

  237. 237
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Now we just have to wait for Rudd’s “Cannuk letter”

  238. 238
    cb
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    161 Julie – I’ve been waiting all these years for this – you can’t believe how sweet it will be

  239. 239
    Greeensborough Growler
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Barnaby will be trying to extract advantage for his constituency. He will deal if it is in his interests. A DD is likely to increase the number of Greens and minor parties because the quota threshold will be halved. This would not necessarily be to the Nats advantage.

  240. 240
    C-Woo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    NEW ECONOMIC RISK COALITION AD:

    I’m not sure it will work. The sky can’t be blue and falling in at the same time.

  241. 241
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    C-Woo, the reaction in my house was to laugh. That ad-man’s voice is just in EVERY single Coalition ad. The naff descriptions that they give to the ALP members is just silly.

  242. 242
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Re. Actors in Labor ads…

    Howard says “If there are so many disadvantaged workers how come Labor has to use actors. Why not use real people?”

    One might say the same thing about the Lib ads: if there are so many in the cheersquad for WorkChoices, how come the Libs employ actors?

    The 13 “doubtful” nominees in Labor’s team are just the ones that came from the PS or similar before they became candidates. Robb has no evidence at all. He’s bluffing. There is NO need for Labor to respond in any way. Let Robb and his Tory mates rot in political oblivion after Saturday.

  243. 243
    Constant Lurker
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Derek at 207

    How do we know that it was Howard in charge in previous elections? Maybe the smarts came from Arthur Sidonis? This election is demolishing so many myths about Howard.

  244. 244
    Antonio
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    #241 Yes, Julia Gillard is a “fanatic”, Peter Garrett is an “extremist”, and Swan and Rudd are “learners”.

    Any nominations for descriptions Labor could use in an ad featuring their equivalents – Vaile, Turnbull, Costello and Howard? You could throw Abbott in for a laugh too.

  245. 245
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    ABC Sydney led with the Workchoices thing, followed by the candidates thing. Also had visual of Penny Wong strongly denying the claims. Penny’s a good choice, but Rudd would be better…

  246. 246
    Antonio
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    #242 Bushfire Bill…maybe the coalition can’t afford actors. They just seem to use black and white photos of former Labor PMs and current shadow ministers. Perhaps they can’t even afford colour photos.

  247. 247
    MGM
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    #233 Boll, yes 81 ALP should be right as I think Page took it to 80. I noticed some narrowing action in other seats, Cowper for instance, which hasn’t moved for quite some time.

  248. 248
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Um – what happened?

  249. 249
    BK
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Antonio 244

    Vaile – sharp as a bowling ball
    Turnbull – unreliable
    Costello – lazy/gutless
    Howard – yesterday’s man
    Abbott – unstable

  250. 250
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Sorry about the comment ordering reversal. To be corrected shortly.

  251. 251
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    The things is Swing Lowe – no need for Rudd to challenge little Andrew Robb. If Rudd turns up it looks like a story, if the ALP can only be bothered to bring out Penny Wong, well…

    All Rudd and Julia have to do is just trash it when asked, no need to call a press conference to give the story oxygen.

  252. 252
    Greeensborough Growler
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    The last time the Libs used a real person in their Work Choice ads they ended up being prosecuted.

  253. 253
    Liz
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    I did the GG on-line poll. I recommend it highly. The best questions are; “If John Howard was a dog, what sort would he be?’ Then the same for Rudd. So, that’s new party game we can all play. I said Howard is a mean, but cowardly, pit-bull and that Rudd was a hardworking, honest blue heeler. But any dog has to be nicer than Howard.

  254. 254
    Peter Kemp
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    ShowsOn Says… at 6:03 pm

    They have legal opinion for Wentworth, the 12 other allegations are just fear…,

    The legal advice is based of course on the presumption that the candidate was working in an “office for profit” . It’s a no brainer. It’s the LNP’s Robb going on Mastermind with special subject “The Bleeding Obvious” in relation only to what the legislation says, backed up by case law, as the case may be.

    As a practitioner myself, as I see it, I vehemently object to the political use of perfectly legitimate and absolutely correct advice which is then presented politically, using the imprimatur of a Senior Counsel, with an underlying, inherently disgraceful political insinuation, namely a presumption of guilt in an election period.

    If they have the evidence, shoot. If not, shut up for decency’s sake.

  255. 255
    NB
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    217 midnothcoast

    ‘Those who have allegiance to a foreign power are ineligible to stand. What is Tony Abbott’s position given his allegiance to the Bishop of Rome (the Sovereign of the Vatican State)’

    Or indeed Rattus’ position given his allegiance to the Dark Lord?

  256. 256
    Lefty E
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    The Libs are practically begging for a landslide now.

    What a laughable performance they’ve put up in this campaign.

    Great impersonation of hopeless amateurs.

  257. 257
    Thommo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Rudd would be a poodle. All show….

  258. 258
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    You can get legal opinion on anything. When asked to provide advice you provide advice on any possible legal route to take, no matter how slim the chance of success.

    I find it doubtful Newhouse, as a lawyer, wouldn’t understand all the eligibility criteria. You have to wonder whether they’d be bothering all this Newhouse bother if Turnbull was getting over 50% in the primaries (as LaborVoter contends).

  259. 259
    C-Woo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone see the Bob Day and Tony Zappia (will be volunteering in Makin for him) and probably going to watch the vote at his office on Saturday Night.

    God, he’s a tool.

  260. 260
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Anyone think the Libs will now send out letters in all those seats warning the voters that the Labor candidate may be illegible?

  261. 261
    C-Woo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    260

    Of course they will. This is as low as you can go.

    (And i’m sorry if I gave away my political leaning!)

  262. 262
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Hey, that wasn’t so hard. Thanks Slain, I should have worked that one out long ago.

  263. 263
    Thommo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    It does sound desperate from the Libs to be questioning the validity of the candidates.

  264. 264
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    There you go William… becoming a technical mastermind.

  265. 265
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Interesting comment on David Pemberty’s blog today about the TT interview:

    Hmm – I thought it was pretty soft. The hilarious thing is, here are two blokes who’ve never even had dinner together like normal friends do, and they’re four days away from what looks like defeat, and they finally decide after 11 years to sit down together for a matey chat on the couch. It looked desperate. The only interesting thing about it was the novelty of seeing them sit together. It was a great coup by Seven to get the interview, but i suspect they secured it on the basis of keeping it very, very tame, because they could really have hopped into the leadership, the mechanics of this confusing handover – you name it.

  266. 266
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Works good Will

  267. 267
    JFC
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    229 grog

    So theoretically,

    Donald Segretti

    equals

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratfucking

    equals

    need to edit wikipedia for new Antipodean definition, post 24/11/07 ???

  268. 268
    Bakunin
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    quote]The 13 “doubtful” nominees in Labor’s team are just the ones that came from the PS or similar before they became candidates. Robb has no evidence at all. He’s bluffing. There is NO need for Labor to respond in any way. Let Robb and his Tory mates rot in political oblivion after Saturday.[/quote

    Sid Mariss’s piece in the GG notes that Gary Parr’s “crime” is to be listed as a member of the Bundaberg Ports Authority council. The Lib party hack who turned this one up didn’t bother to do any further research, otherwise they would have found the BPA had merged with Brisbane Ports Authority in May 07 and Parr’s council position came to an end at that time.

    It’s becoming obvious the “public record” search Robb kept harping on about was someone googling for candidates names, and the substance of the claims comes down to organisations not updating their websites.

    Congratulations on a fine “own goal” to Andrew Robb

  269. 269
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Notice this week the absence of the big spend. If Rudd had matched Howard last week, it would have been open slather in the last few days – especially from the Liberals. Rudd effectively ensured the rabbit stayed in the warren. Brilliant strategy.
    And Swing Lowe at 245: A Rudd response would have led the news – the wrong message. As it was, Rudd kept on message with his petition and Workchoices.

  270. 270
    HooHoo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    For the coalition calling for Labor candidates being out of touch

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

  271. 271
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    El Rodent on 7:30Report

  272. 272
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    William, How do I make a financial contribution to this site for us tragics?

  273. 273
    turfmeister
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Andrew Robb the Elmer Fudd of Australian politics with his mantra of: It’s wabbit season.

    ROFLMAO

  274. 274
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    So far Howard’s had to justify the papers he wont release regarding WorkChoices – 4 minutes wasted – love it!

  275. 275
    Ed the Pseph
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    272 alpal – go to the home page. Paypal button on the left hand side.

  276. 276
    libsrok
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    btw has anyone seen esj? im wondering if he came good & put $100 into williams account.

  277. 277
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Given the tracking of wikipedia edits, I’ll let you do it JFC!

  278. 278
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Andrew Robb the Elmer Fudd of Australian politics with his mantra of: It’s wabbit season.

    Cue: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qF6WMUm0fUw

  279. 279
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    William, the first change (making the comment appear on the same page it was submitted from) means you should see some serious reduction in your bandwidth usage. It at least takes away one extra page visit after (previously) being redirected to the first page on comment submission – cool :-)

  280. 280
    AJ
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Hmm perhaps I should mention that the numbers I quoted were BEST CASE for the ALP, its not inconceivable that they only have 29 senators….any comments? Its certainly not something I would wish to see given the large legislative amendments needed to get some of the ALP’s platform inplemented.

    I definately see an obstructive Senate looming and it concerns me.

    AJ

  281. 281
    HooHoo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Just watched an old bit from the Australian version of Top Model.

    Apparently even models hate John Howard.

  282. 282
    Flash
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Turn down the sound. Just look at Howard’s facial expression on the 7.30 Report. You can just tell it’s all over.

  283. 283
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Flash @ 282, agree – and they’re still discussing IR, past and present, and facts and figures – 10 minutes into it. Blah Blah Blah Blah…

  284. 284
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Ferk! He’s losing the plot – I hope you guys are watching :-)

  285. 285
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    He has no idea

  286. 286
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    updates of the rodnet interview would be greatly appreciated by those of us up north that acknowledge the true time of day… not some time made up by humans merely dividing the day into equal parts. who has heard of such nonsense!

  287. 287
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Yes but, no but, yes but, no but, yes but…

    Hang on, hang on hang on hang on….

    Kerry could I suggest that’s the past….

  288. 288
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    On 730 Report, O’Brien is tearing Howard a new one…BIG TIME, tune in, Howard’s flumoxed,

  289. 289
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    its sounds like Vicki Pollard is being interviewed!

  290. 290
    onimod
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    This is tough enough to follow for the informed.
    We’re down to a fraction of university educated economists at the moment….

  291. 291
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    middle man, Kerry is calling on Howard’s comparisons with the (Labor) past and getting him to explain how he argues Labor will be bad for the economy. The beauty of this is that he has now wasted 15 minutes discussing the one issue that is political poison for the coalition… IR.

  292. 292
    Rain
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    I’m a faithful Labor voter of 30+ years, and I’m still nervous about whether Labor can win. I just don’t have faith in the Australian people. In 2001, the support for Howards actions over Tampa were overwhelming. The letters of support arriving in Canberra were in floods! Letters proposing that the Australian army should go over and shoot the bastards *before* they get on leaky fishing boats etc. Race riots on Cronulla beach with hundreds of skinhead thugs wrapped “proudly” in the flag? (The next generation of “honorable” ANZACs??) The total shrugging off of military intervention in the NT? An indigenous community lodges a High Court challenge to question the legality under the federal Consititution…and most Aussies, just don’t give a flying &*^&% as long as they get their pork. Face it, a majority of Aussies are a**holes.

    The total annihilation of State govts through fiscal punishment, ie withdrawing funding. (No wonder they are in debt) In Tassie, the Mersey hospital, and to a lesser extent the mill, are State govt matters, and wouldn’t have been national dramas if those electorates weren’t so important to the feds. Personally, I’m sick to death of hearing about Tasmania’s “issues” every election campaign.

    The Intervention in the NT should have been a federal issue. for all Aussies because of questions about using federal powers of national military, federal police and federal powers over welfare quarantining, as a tool of discrimination on one segment of the population in one territory. The Coalition say they will extend these powers nationwide, and *NOBODY* blinks an eye — as long as they get their pork. I genuinely hope that Rudd’s careful campaigning of trying to appeal as a credible alternative to that huge demographic of a***holes works, but I’m not sure.

    Knowing Labor’s bad luck, will get in with a small majority and face a freaking hostile Senate and a feral Opposition playing sabotage. I wouldn’t put it past them to stage a military coup and the majority of Aussies would say “thats OK, as I long as I get my pork!”

  293. 293
    Flash
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Kerry O’Brien is confronting Howard with various measured points about both his own past performance, and the performance of the Keating government, in particular.

    Howard is flailing around, barely making a serious attempt to deflect the points O’Brien is making. He seems utterly deflated, a lost man.

  294. 294
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Kerry and Howard just hate each other. You think Kerry is thinking, “F*ck it, this is my last interview with him, I’m not even going to pretend…”

  295. 295
    Flaneur
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    libsrok

    im wondering if he came good & put $100 into williams account.

    In a comment far, far away, William did confirm that ESJ stayed true
    to his word.

  296. 296
    turfmeister
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    @288 Bonds underwear about to apply for a patent to cater for the new Howard anatomical make-up.

  297. 297
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    ooohhhh i cant wait to watch it when we catch up to the rest of the east coast!

  298. 298
    Curtins for the Rodent
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    From the electorate of Dawson, home to that model of ministerial (ex) brilliance, Deanne Kelly.

    Whilst the city of Mackay is decidedly labour voting, the provincials have the lovely Deanne on an overall margin of 10+ %.

    Nonetheless, you should see the amount of TV advertising tonight. It’s a blitz and she is making more promises at the moment, than she made funding (pork-barrelling) decisions, immediately prior to the last election.

    Apparently we’re getting camera’s in our fair city. Her area of responsibility has obviously diminished significantly since getting the sack as a minister.

    Is she running scared?

  299. 299
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Grog Says: “Kerry and Howard just hate each other. You think Kerry is thinking, “F*ck it, this is my last interview with him, I’m not even going to pretend…”"

    How sweet.

  300. 300
    Darn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Kerry’s certainly done his home work. Howard’s not getting away with his usual bullshit.

  301. 301
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    18 minutes in… now he’s using Shamaham’s words against the Rodent…

  302. 302
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    301 George. That is just beautiful!!!!!!!!!

  303. 303
    onimod
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    I’ve got to say that Kerry is also revealing some of his own flaws – he’s incredibly well briefed tonight – why doesn’t he do this on a regular basis?

    Kerry deals up Shamaham alam alam and JWH in the one question – a bit too cut and Howard walks around it.
    Back to the detail Kez

  304. 304
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Howard: “there’s no such thing as changing the Government without changing the circumstances of the country”

    Amen to that, rodent

  305. 305
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    I’m a faithful Labor voter of 30+ years, and I’m still nervous about whether Labor can win.

    Pessimism comes with being a Labor voter. :-P

  306. 306
    KeepingALidOnIt
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Keryy is (by proxy for PJK) doing him SLOWLY

  307. 307
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Howard: “if we lose the House, we wont control the senate”

    And that’s bad because….?

  308. 308
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    21 Minutes in – Nuclear Power

  309. 309
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Oh drop the bomb on the bomb!

  310. 310
    Julie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    207,

    Derek, thanks for that :) :) That gives me some kind of perspective. This election was one of the reasons I wanted to make sure I had my citizenship behind me so I could add my vote into the lot ;-)

  311. 311
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Howard: “Let’s have an adult debate about climate change”

    It’s called “Global Warming” and it’s happening in your head as you speak…

  312. 312
    turfmeister
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    I believe Howard has already written his concession speech for he knows he is cactus. Based on the 7:30 Report performance he is mentally deflated as the reality has set in. .

  313. 313
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Geez I hope Rudd is on his game tomorrow night.

  314. 314
    LaborVoter
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    I’ve changed my assesment on Wentworth.

    If the Libs are getting this desperate to save the seat, Malcolm may indeed by in trouble!

  315. 315
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Gloria agreeing with Flint that the Media is soft on Rudd.

    http://livenews.com.au/Articles/2007/11/20/Media_complicit_in_Rudds_spin

  316. 316
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    23 minutes in – Howard’s “education revolution” – although Howard doesn’t like Kerry using the term “revolution”… “I was being ironic” he says

  317. 317
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Howard: Kevin Rudd’s Union “Masters” in the union

    Wow, we’ve gone from “Bosses” to “Masters”… of the Universe?

  318. 318
    RGee
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Kerry has done a job on Howard tonight.

  319. 319
    Evan
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Kezza’s roasting him. Now he’s saying the “education revolution” he proposed in the debate was an attempt at irony.

    Loser.

  320. 320
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    316. that is priceless.

  321. 321
    Ed the Pseph
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    I just checked portlandbet. Not only has Corangamite moved to the Labor column at $1.82/$1.90 but there has also been significant firming for Labor in Cowper, Robertson, Page, La Trobe, Hasluck, Swan, Dawson and Dickson. Eden-Monaro now at $1.14. I noticed that Bennelong went back out to $2.40 earlier. Back in to $2.32 now. Wentworth eased back to $2.40. The Corangamite and La Trobe prices were the ones that stood out to me.

  322. 322
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    25 minutes in: The MILLIONS spent on advertising; Kerry: “staggering
    amount”

  323. 323
    Scotty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think any of this interview will move votes one way or the other. Howard has become very boring and tiresome these days.

    He really looks resigned and deflated, too.

  324. 324
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Howard: “Judge ud by the central things you judge a government by”

    Kerry: “I would have thought ethics was central?”

  325. 325
    Politics_Obsessed
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    William – slight fixup for HOR guide. You’ve mixed the candidate list for the New England and Newcastle electorates. What an interesting prospect it is seeing the bold sitting MP Tony Windsor for Newcastle. Now that’ll get those country folk scratching there heads. :P Also, in the listing of all the seats in your pendulum – under reference note 6 – you have the margin for Indep over Nationals with the name Bob Katter- and not Tony Windsor. :) Just thought that might help.

  326. 326
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    27 minutes: “Why did you ask the advice of Downer and Cabinet on whether you should leave and then not take their advice”

    OH THE HUMANITY!

  327. 327
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    i’ve just ordered my favourite pizza and will be settling into to watch the roasting when it comes on in Bris.

  328. 328
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    28 minutes in: “What if you lose your seat on Saturday”

    Oh, PLEASE, make it stop!!!!!

  329. 329
    Scotty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    EtP 321

    Something is obviously brewing in Victoria, despite the already high (relatively) Labor vote.

    oh, I love it, Kerry is grilling JWH on the appointment of Downer to canvas the caucus before the election.... love it!!!

    And now about losing his seat... GOLD!

  330. 330
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    JHO ’s head getting red

  331. 331
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Kerry will give it to Rudd tomorrow as well. The best journalist in the country by a mile.
    Howard mean and sneaky, full of contradictions, hypocrisy and lies, a pathetic human being, who undoubtedly has been our worst Prime Minister since Bruce.

  332. 332
    alpal
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Ed – there will be a tsunami in Victoria. Labor is playing it down. But it will happen – McEwen, Latrobe, McMillan, Corrangamite, Aston – and watch out for Goldstein ( it will be the sleeper – and that’s one of the reasons Robb was out there tonight on Labors candidates:profile)

  333. 333
    John Hunt Is A Coward
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Kerry went for the Kill!
    Howard down for the count….1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9…

  334. 334
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Kerry: “are you telling me MR Howard when your head hits the pillow at night, that you are not contemplating a possible loss”

    I’m breaking down.. I can’t take it anymore…

  335. 335
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    George are you making this up? the ethics line is top shelf.

  336. 336
    Scotty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    “my focus is my focus”

    “you only change if you believe change is for the better”

  337. 337
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Howard is Mr Yesterday, These lame responses where he has contradicted himself, did NOT rule out or ducked the question of Nukes, and changed history to suit himself, including disputing keatings enterprise bargaining revolution.
    Sad
    Pathetic,
    Yesterday,
    Never was.

  338. 338
    marty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    “It’s not like getting a Christmas present you don’t like and returning it…”

    Yeah. It ain’t. You’re the worst Christmas present I’ve ever had.

    “My focus is…”

    Myself. It always has been rattus cuneiformitus.

  339. 339
    I C Moore
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    No-one listens to Kerry, the ABC 7.30 report is CB radio for political junkies like us, it matters not

  340. 340
    John Hunt Is A Coward
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    What is it with the dyed Eyebrows?

  341. 341
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Kerry: “Thank you sincerely for making yourself available as often as you have”

    Classy Kerry, very classy.

  342. 342
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    When does the transcript or video of 7.30 Report go up online ?

  343. 343
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    He is defeated, body language, language, voice.
    Howard is defeated and he knows it.

  344. 344
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Think he will lose it and cry out “Mr Speaker Mr Speaker” if Kerry keeps pushing.

  345. 345
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    middle man Says: “George are you making this up? the ethics line is top shelf.”

    middle man, my fingers are bleeding :-) check later and let me know how i went with the live transcript

  346. 346
    Flash
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    A touching moment at the end where O’Brien says it may be their last interview, and he thanks Howard “sincerely” for making himself available so often, even during the tough times. I can’t help thinking O’Brien is turning his mind, a little, to Rudd’s refusal to go on Insiders and what that may portend.

  347. 347
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    The Howard Government has practically wrecked the ABC, but two things survived Kerry and in a much tamer version Media Watch, hopefully Howard will go and the ABC can be rebuilt.

  348. 348
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    George. He really used the past tense “have”, and not “as often as you do”? that was pure class.

  349. 349
    GS
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Gawd is he STILL on?? How long must the fat (or bald) lady warble??? :(

    No wonder there staking a trip down memory lane – there’s just so much baggage – I mean history to dredge up.

  350. 350
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Is it a case of Kerry asking for Howard to come on or like Downer with Lateline he has a regular spot.

  351. 351
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    GS, it’s all over… I mean the 7:30 report…

  352. 352
    Steveo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Ohh
    im getting all teary eyed after watching the end of the 7.30 report,
    a touching moment in tv
    :(

  353. 353
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    That was indeed very classy by O’Brien thanking Howard for always making himself available. That is true I guess.

    I guess Rudds going to get a rocket over that tomorrow.

    Nevertheless, These two men, O’Brien and Howard, both knew this was their last interview in their current roles.

    Tonite was history gentlemen! And Ladies!

  354. 354
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    marky marky. it was a request to have both leaders on for extended interviews, to which they both agreed. Rudd has to face to wrath tomorrow night.

  355. 355
    ViggoP
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone else noticed how Kev and Julia always refer to JWH as “the prime minister” or “Mr Howard” whereas John and Peter often refer to KR as “Kevin Rudd” or “Rudd”.

  356. 356
    Lomandra
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    John Howard just committed political suicide.

  357. 357
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    I know that. I am talking about the past but of course Howard only refers to it when he wants to.

  358. 358
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    So what is Howard’s problem with a worker electing to have a union represent them?

    I thought he said that was OK.

    Or was it only OK last week, but not this week?

  359. 359
    GS
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    George – sorry, yes it is. But I was referring to JWH’s voice still reverberating in my head! :(

  360. 360
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    ViggoP. that is a deliberate strategy. research showed that the public still respected Howard but thought that he was getting a bit past it. so they reflected that by using prime minister or mr howard.

  361. 361
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    When and if it does happen how will we feel? Will we feel sorry for the rodent in the end? After his concession? If and when?

  362. 362
    Julie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Re 236,

    The Finnigans Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
    Mr. Rudd – Show us your WAY!!!!

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmXSYi49IU

    I can’t thank you enough for posting this link. That was beautiful. I have passed it onto all of my friends and family. It made me cry like I do when I watch teary eyed type feel good movies. :) :)

  363. 363
    marty
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    You think that was amusing, turn it over to SBS now and watch Insight. An audience full of ‘undecideds’ who will possibly decide the nation’s future.

    Now I’m really depressed…

  364. 364
    Dave55
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    It’s about time that Kerry- hell anyone – questioned Howard like that on his own economic record and his criticism of Hawke and Keating. Loved the fact that Howard tried not to talk about the past because it was exposing flaws in his arguments yet Kerry kept dragging him back there on the basis that it was the Coalition that raised Labor’s record in the first place. He actually made Howard answer the questions because he was using Howard’s own words and twisting them, forcing Howard to clarify. Brilliant work K O’B. Still, it won’t sway votes one way or the other because the arguments are too complicated and can’t be explained in a 15 second add break. Howard has already won that argument with his years of rewriting the Labor economic record.

    As other have said, Rudd will need to be on the ball because Kerry does like to appear balanced and is likely to go harder on Rudd to compensate for the perceived bias. If Rudd is good, it maintains the status quo but if he stuffs up, he could lose votes.

  365. 365
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Howard can’t do it! He can’t give any government other than his own any credit for anything done in the last 100 years.

    What a clown.

  366. 366
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    HAHAHAHAH what!? Enterprise bargaining wasn’t introduced by Labor?

    UNBELIEVABLE! Howard has completely lost it.

  367. 367
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Kev O’Brien IS balanced He goes for the kill no matter who you are , its a matter of his pride.

  368. 368
    kina
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    I am going to record it – could be Howard’s last interview with Kerry.

  369. 369
    GS
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Its part II of the “I just dunno Jenny” series. Insight is usually worth a look although sometimes I feel as if I’m in company with about 200 others out in TV land. Deserves better I reckon.

  370. 370
    Paul Hodgson
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Can someone on PB please help me pursue Edward St John (ESJ) on his promise to donate $100 to William if last night’s/today’s Newspoll was better than 53 TPP in ALP’s favour. It was 54-46

    This morning I posted:

    William: On Sunday, under Morgan phone poll 56-44 at 7.54pm I posted the following:

    “William: I posted the last post on the thread that has just died or lapsed:

    ESJ #562:

    I’ll take you on for a $100 donation to PB so long as you promise to shut up until William confirms you’ve paid the $100. 53.00-47.00 ALP TPP = draw (and we both give William $20. ALP 53.01% TPP and you pay William $100.”

    I hope he’s paid”

    This is getting very dense with quotation marks and yesterday threads. Issue is that I bet $100 against this assinine self-important pompous parading poncing pratulous prick (ESJ) and he lost the bet: Newspoll 54-46. Was it a core promise to pay the gambling debt or is he just another preening troll git with the ethics of everyone else in Howard’s Liberal Party?

    I’d be very pleased, since I am about to go out for the evening if someone could take up the cause. Please someone when ESJ logs on tonight throw this at him.

    And as for “generic person”. WTF does this combination of clueless adjective and noun mean? Why don’t you call yourself “thick idiot”. This would at least get the sympathy vote.

  371. 371
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Oh me! Oh my! Kerry all but blew rasberries at Howard.

    My cup of happiness explodeth :)

  372. 372
    HooHoo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    70% of Labor frontbench are trade-unionists.

    And 100% of the coalition frontbench are c**nts.

    Where after today, where would the undecided be?

  373. 373
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    #366
    I know I can’t get off the floor

  374. 374
    El Nino
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    I have heard some rumours about Howard possibly being in ill health. Maybe even doing a ‘Mitterand’ shortly after leaving office. Inspite of his grave misdemeanours in office, I think all commentators should contemplate this possibility. It is a measure of our humanity, how we extend the hand of compassion when approporiate. Lets face it: the guys is a politcal dead duck. Sun Tsu said, “Do not interfere with an army that is returning home. “

  375. 375
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    I thnkI would rather watch Costello pashing Howard again on Today tonite than watch those utter illbred halfwits on SBS.

  376. 376
    Antonio
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Sorry Middle Man, I don’t like to be a pedant, but “have” is present tense, as is “do”. To be accurate, “have” is used here in the present perfect tense.

    Kerry was effectively saying “Thank you sincerely for making yourself available as often as you have (made yourself available)”. It does not imply that the act of “making one’s self available often” has ended (though I agree it probably has!).

    Past tense would be: “Thank you sincerely for making yourself available as often as you did”.

    Having got that off my chest, I agree with you, and suspect it is indeed Howard’s last interview with Kerry as PM.

    And I do agree that Howard has seldom shied away from facing hard interviews, though, like all pollies, he indulges on plenty of media manipulation. He understands that 7.30 Report interviews have a flow-on effect to other media. In the Howard biography (which I thought was fair and interesting), the authors make the point that Howard uses ABC current affairs program to speak directly to his troops – ministers and backbenchers. Rudd may indeed adopt this course of action if he becomes PM.

    Unfortunately, Howard has failed to adapt to other kinds of media (internet, Rove, FM Radio) that speak to young voters.

  377. 377
    El Nino
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Mind you, Sun Tsu also said, “Violent language and driving forward as if to
    the attack are signs that he will retreat.”

  378. 378
    libsrok
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    ph apparantly esj was true to his word

  379. 379
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    #366
    I know I can’t get off the floor

    All Howard had to do is give a TINY bit of credit to the previous government, and THEN go into his spiel.

  380. 380
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Getting all teary eyed over Howard. Yep i bet he was over workers when he gave us workchoices. Yep also when he sold Telstra and yep when he gave to all Australians a GST.
    And yep i bet Howard got teary eyed over people in detention and Mrs Rau and Mrs Solon. And the people stranded on the Tampa of the Western Australian coast, stuck without food or water in the blazing sun.
    I certainly don’t get teary eyed over Howard a mean, pathetic human being.

  381. 381
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    Antonio. I’m always willing to learn. Thanks.

  382. 382
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    375
    Gerr Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    I thnkI would rather watch Costello pashing Howard again on Today tonite than watch those utter illbred halfwits on SBS.

    I wouldn’t worry Gerr, it’s going to rate as highly as a ODI between Kenya and Canada at 2.00am on a Sunday morning.

  383. 383
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    @380 marky Walburg?

    Yeah, nuf said.

  384. 384
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    sorry, but my tears have told me they don’t have anytime for humans with no heart.

  385. 385
    Derek Corbett
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Constant Lurker @ 243

    Quite right. Probably Arthur. What I was getting at is that Howard was the public face – the man in charge. We know know it was a con.

  386. 386
    Maurico
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Hey El Nino, I will give the rodent the same compassion he extended to David Hicks.

    He lost any right to sympathy a long time ago…..

    He can f*** off and die for I care

  387. 387
    turfmeister
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Marky Mark spot on assessment – this man has completely ruined the lives of innocent people and actually used their plight to further his own career and that of his party.

    I, too, will not be shedding a tear for him when he gets ousted.

  388. 388
    Pi
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    # 361 Gerr Says: November 20th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    When and if it does happen how will we feel? Will we feel sorry for the rodent in the end? After his concession? If and when?

    You’re kidding, right? The guy thinks nothing of demonizing helpless people, and we’re supposed to have sympathy for him?

    Not a chance.

    In the future, this will become known as the Howard years… the decade of hate.

  389. 389
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    hahahahaha……sbs…….he has ronald reagan disease

  390. 390
    El Nino
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    While I am on a roll with Sun Tsu (perhaps Kev is a student):

    Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his
    temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes
    but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to
    victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation
    at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is
    likely to win or lose.

  391. 391
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    Howard has to take on notice when he will put legislation in parliament!?

    WTF?

  392. 392
    Tory Crimes
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    The Rodent King is having far too many senior moments of late. Fancy suggesting labor was not responsible for EB! What next? Labor didnt float the $ or deregulate the economy in the 80’s. Pathetic, absolutley pathetic, even by Rattys usual standards. Crikey, soon he will ask for Nelson Mandela to be released from prison.

  393. 393
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Pi, my sentiments entirely. Howard is one reason why i am an atheist.

  394. 394
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Pi Says: “You’re kidding, right? The guy thinks nothing of demonizing helpless people, and we’re supposed to have sympathy for him?”

    Right on Pi. Amen

  395. 395
    ViggoP
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Julie 362. I’ll second that. And KD Lang; there’s a lady I could change my sex for.

  396. 396
    Let It End
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    libsrok Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    ph apparantly esj was true to his word

    I believe Paul Hodgson is referring to a bet he also made with ESJ in addition to yours Libsrock.

  397. 397
    Rain
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    and I am so tired of polls saying how great the Libs are as economic managers.

    The interest rates under Keating weren’t that bad for chrissake. Sure there were a few “losers”, (who still whinge 20 years later! Ohhh Get over it! Most of you recovered long before 96 too)
    For me, I was a “winner”, 18% of $60K meant people like me could get in on the housing market, when prices went tumbling. No GST and stamp duty was peanuts!
    Its not the interest rate, its the capital sum you are paying the interest on that is the problem!

    Basic Year 7 maths, and do you think these idiots in the mortgage belts can add up? There sure is something wrong with the education system.

    It was a global recession, other countries were much worse off, and Australia recovered quicker than most. It was short-lived, a couple of tight but not disastrous years, and the most vulnerable of society were still protected from the worst blows of it. To me thats excellent “economic management”, as a country amongst dozens of others caught up in it, we did extremely well in comparison, and the majority of Australians came through it.

    It was just Keating didn’t sell himself well… wasn’t one for PR, too tactless, introverted and “cold” for the cameras, and Victorians especially, never forgave him for stabbing their golden local boy Hawkey. I must admit I was one of those, Hawke was popular, Keating wasn’t, but he was a damn good Treasurer and economic manager, through both crises in the early 80s and then around 90 etc – he did well to bring this country through with a minimum of pain, and recovering quicker than other countries.

    Howard/Costello have presided over good times and sold it off, sold off various assets, the national Gold Reserves, ie robbed the treasury, and then robbed the poor and even the middle-class, with over-taxing, and there will soon be nothing left to sell! Thats where all their surpluses came from! From my pocket and my national treasury! Now they want to sell off Aboriginal land (and probably for much less than its worth, like the other assets they have sold) so they have to take $10/week off the disabled, insult the poor buggers when they ask nicely for some subsidised medicines.

    As for Unions – *sheesh* No wonder Rudd has got at least the Youth vote. The Gen-Y 20-somethings wouldn’t know a Union if it bit them on the bum, they were dead 10 years before they were born, and aren’t scared of “Union bosses” – as they look very much like their current generation of employer “bosses”!

    The Gen-X mortage-belters were raised on horror-stories and myths, and honestly believe things like “Unions would take my pay away”….. nothing ever stopped an employer offerring “above award” individually or collectively, and some of us oldies were in very conservative white-collar unions that wouldn’t look out of place at a Liberal Party picnic. For my generation your Union card, was like joining the NRMA/RACV – may never need it, may never use it in a lifetime, but cheap and tax-deductible “insurance” was nice to have. Unions were a part of the cultural landscape for generations, up there with vegemite.

    Drives me nuts. So many Aussie voters believe the crap about this stuff.

    I’ll get off my soap-box now…..

  398. 398
    El Nino
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    BTW, I wasn’t talking about viewing him thorugh teary eyes after his departure. I think his historical legacy should be assessed for what it was. My opinion is that history will judge him harshly, above and beyond current party politics. But for the moment the guy is just an powerless and possibly ill old man. I won’t roll an old guy for his wallet no matter what his politics are.

  399. 399
    Flaneur
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Paul Hodgson wrote:

    Can someone on PB please help me pursue Edward St John (ESJ) on his
    promise to donate $100 to William…

    William has already confirmed that the payment has been made.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/729?cp=4#comment-88690

    No, I’m not Edward’s secretary: just wanting to thwart an unwarranted
    lynching.

  400. 400
    GS
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Ah just roll on E-day. Vote early and often, then backyard bbq, beer(s), ABC tv on in the background and the laptop bookmarked to PB in case it all gets too confoosin… :)

  401. 401
    Steve K
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Re: 7.30 Report:

    O’Brien chopped him into little pieces and fed them to the studio dog. I have never ever seen such a demolition of an experienced public figure in my life. Costello would have loved it now that he and others in the Liberal party can see that the game is up. The Rodent has been trapped and killed off. All that remains is for the public to throw his carcass into the political dust bin on Saturday.

  402. 402
    Lindsay voter
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Yes, that was very touching at the end of 7.30pm. I’d never imagine I would feel a little sorry for Howard, sad even.

  403. 403
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    What was I thinking?!

  404. 404
    ShowsOn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    The Australian 21st of November 2007
    MY FOCUS IS MY FOCUS: HOWARD

  405. 405
    Tory Crimes
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    I remember when Fraser started balling in 1983 and felt nothing but glee after his role in the bloodless coup of 1975. I hope Howard drowns in his own tears. He has debased the body politic like no one else has in the countrys history.

    ‘What profiteth a man should he gain the whole world but lose his soul’? That was written for Howard.

  406. 406
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Rain, you probably remember as well as I do, the shocking behaviour of the MSM under Keating.

  407. 407
    Maurico
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    El Nino your sympathy for El rodent is misplaced.

    Make no mistake. He would roll you for a vote.

  408. 408
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    I’m with you Pi

  409. 409
    Edward StJohn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Good evening comrades!

    Has someone been taking my name in vain?

  410. 410
    Flash
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Yes I agree that I begin to feel sorry for Howard, to sense the human dimension. He is now an elderly man, still in fairly good health as far as we know, whose life work is about to be pulverised, in effect. He will face long, lonely months ahead once he quits Parliament, which he surely will within weeks of the election. He will be haunted by “what ifs”, most notably conversations with Peter Costello which will no doubt get a public airing.

  411. 411
    JFC
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    On the important newspoll(?) scientific issue of

    ‘Which leader is what breed of dog?’

    Howard – Shit-tzu. (sure, it’s obvious now)

    Rudd – Labra-doodle, with a tiny bit of Qld blue heeler that snuck in.

    Latham – a beautiful little rottie, smiling up at you, tail wagging, and the neighbour’s dead cat in its mouth.

  412. 412
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    GEEZUZ the ABC just previewed Rudds interview tomorrow night on 730report and finished with Rudd seemingly giving a heil hitler!

  413. 413
    Hemingway
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Steve K @ 401

    Didn’t come across as a “demolition” to me, so could you please elaborate on which questions you think made O’Brien’s interview so terrible for Howard.

  414. 414
    chris
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    kerry sunk the blade in then twisted it then thank him generously at the end. he must of loved that one

  415. 415
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    It should have happened in ‘98, Flash, when people first realized just what he stood for.

  416. 416
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    C’mon Gerr!! pull yourself together man!!!!

  417. 417
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    chris, I loved that bit at the end. Come this Sunday, I’ll still have a job, you won’t.
    Excellent :)

  418. 418
    JFC
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    I hate corrections

    and I meant

    Latham – beautiful little STAFFIE, smiling up at you, tail wagging, and the neighbour’s dead cat in its mouth.

  419. 419
    Gippslander
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    388
    Pi Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    “……

    In the future, this will become known as the Howard years… the decade of hate.”

    Pi, I’ve said before we must be two halves of the same wit! Let’s hope the next few years are known as “The Ruddy Good Times”

  420. 420
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    People should realise what the two parties stand for not the person. But of course people are stupid, and Australia is full of dills, just think people voting in 1998 to get screwed by a GST, and letting them get away with it in 2001, a country full of dumbos.

  421. 421
    Luke
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Can someone please tell me if Channel 7’s Mark Riley and Channel 9’s Laurie Oakes mentioned Andrew Robb’s 13 Labor MP hitlist on their election coverage tonight?. I saw the Channel 10 coverage with Paul Bongiorno, featuring Penny Wong.

  422. 422
    bronnie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    What constitutes a landslide? How many seats have to be won to be so labeled ? How big should the swing be?

  423. 423
    Edward StJohn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    I am told that Paul Hodgson is actually Paul Case son of Ken Case so i guess that explains the vulgar abuse at 370.

    The caravans moved on buddy!

  424. 424
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    @416

    I just looked into Howard’s eyes on tv and all of the sudden I wanted a Mcmansion, a 40 foot HDtv widescreen , a ford territory, a vacation, another vacation, I wanted to hire a u boat and torpedo some SEIVS, and then machine gun the ppl in the water….I wanted to open up detention cetners in my back yard, I wanted to viliify dirty dirty foreigners dirty dirty dirty un australian foreigners! I wanted to turn on all my applainces and warm the planet so we could all walk round in bikinis…I JUST WANTED TO BE LOVED!!!!!!
    Some body Help me!

  425. 425
    Julie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Re 370,

    Paul Hodgson Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
    Can someone on PB please help me pursue Edward St John (ESJ) on his promise to donate $100 to William

    Paul, he did make good. William posted that earlier today.

  426. 426
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    laurie oakes no

  427. 427
    Edward StJohn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    JFC what kind of dog would penny wong be?

    A. Irish WolfHound

  428. 428
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    John Howard said on the 7.30 Report… you can’t learn from a book. WTF?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

  429. 429
    libsrok
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    esj.im glad to see you lived up to your side of our bet .in the intrest of fairness i will throw in $100 to william if ruddy wins on saturday.i think that is fair

  430. 430
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Luke Channel 9 didn’t mention it – it was all about the work choices II

  431. 431
    Alan H
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    IC Moore @ 339 Around 750,000 watch Kerry every night. More bullshit from Howardistas. They’re swimming in it.

    cheers,

    Alan H

  432. 432
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Watch Howard spin this.

    Labor leader Kevin Rudd has warned that refugees could start fleeing from Melanesian nations like Papua New Guinea, the Solomons and Vanuatu because of rising levels of poverty.

    Mr Rudd says Melanesia is one of the few places in the developing world where economic and social indicators are getting worse.

    He says there are moral and practical reasons for Australia to boost the amount of aid it gives those nations.

    "Because if we fail to act in terms of under-development across Melanesia, two consequences ensue if you are looking at if from the self-interest point of view," he said.

    "You're going to be looking at the need for rolling military interventions which are massively expensive to the Australian taxpayer, [we've' already seen a number of them.

    "And secondly if you don't act, you will see over time an outflow of refugees from the region."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/20/2096342.htm?section=justin

  433. 433
    Antonio
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    For those excited by the Rudd Sun Tsu video, I do question the use of a Leonard Cohen song for political purposes. As we all know, Leonard Cohen prefers to be used for sexual purposes (even in his Buddhist phase).

    But if people insist on linking Leonard with Kevin, try this quote:

    “And you want to travel with him, and you want to travel blind, And you think maybe you’ll trust him, For he’s touched your perfect body with his mind” (Suzanne)

    And for John Howard:

    “His body is gone, but back here on the lawn, his spirit continues to drool”
    (One of Us Can Not Be Wrong)

  434. 434
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Take of the dog and women comments please.

  435. 435
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Howard held his own with Kerry. Of more interest is whether Rudd will replicate a similar performance without trotting through the same old clichees on working families and illusive future plans.

  436. 436
    kina
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    “428
    middle man Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
    John Howard said on the 7.30 Report… you can’t learn from a book. WTF?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!”

    Maybe he can’t read.

  437. 437
    charles
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Gerr Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    When and if it does happen how will we feel? Will we feel sorry for the rodent in the end? After his concession? If and when?

    If you do spare a thought for the Tampa, or the people left to drown, or the people locked up for no reason. No they were not like us, but they were people, they had mothers, fathers, children, brothers and sisters just like us.

  438. 438
    Graeme
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Observer, that’s not right. An ‘office’ is by definition a public thing. A company with government contracts/outsourcing is not covered.

    The only problem with the law is (a) it being hidden, in a rigid way in the Constitution, and (b) the High Court’s folly in reading the date back to the time of nomination, and including State officials, neither of which make sense of the purpose of protecting conflicts of interest involving Federal MPs.

  439. 439
    Rain
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I sure do mad cow @406 –
    I also remember 1975, though I was tad a too young to vote, and how quickly the masses can be so manipulated.

    This election is the first time since 83 I have felt optimistic, and I am proud of the ALP for not stooping to their level, not going so low as the right-wing have.

    When Fraser spoke up for the Tampa reffos in 2001, I was stunned – you have to worry when Fraser feels that this current generation of Liberals are too fascist even for his taste!

  440. 440
    Lefty E
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Well, he made about as much sense on EBAs as certain resident commentators.

    dont they teach key historical facts (and narratives) in pwivate schools? Or is it world histowee according to Downer?

  441. 441
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    @435 Generic Person

    Only serious posts please.

  442. 442
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Antonio, you missed that classic Cohen tune “Don’t let me go home with this hard on”.

    Howard on 7.30 Report is just full of sh*t. He’s telling blatant lies. Changing his mind on things he’s said previously. Knob.

  443. 443
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    “What is truth?”

    Herald Sun: Labor Slams ‘Desperate” Liberals
    Daily T: Cocky Kev’s Crew ‘ineligible’
    The Oz: Libs Flag Wentworth Legal Challenge
    CM: Labor blasts ‘desperate’ Libs
    Tiser: Labor’s Angry Denial
    PerthNow: Ben – I want to play in 2009

  444. 444
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    “Howard held his own with Kerry”

    Oh the humanity!!!!!

  445. 445
    Toby
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    I just saw the best 30 minutes of political television ever. And I’ve seen years, and years… and years. After that effort from the PM, how can he honestly – honestly – stand up as a serious option for Australia on Saturday? I’ve never seen a more deflated and confused effort from Howard.
    He used to be the master of deflection – but he got sucked right in! I actually felt a little embarrassed for him.
    Kerry knew it wouldn’t change a vote – only people who have decided watch the program – but he just went for it, like never before.
    Haha. I’m still chuckling.

  446. 446
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    No 441

    Howard had Kerry around his finger.

  447. 447
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of History.

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=wOHfhP-38OA

  448. 448
    onimod
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    435 GP
    It’s a problem now to have the same message from 1 day to the next?
    Look, I know Johnny and his mates can’t manage it, but if Kev can it’s a bad thing?

    Held his own my (and every other Australians) ass. No – he didn’t contradict himself directly within a 10 second sound bite; he just revealed himself to be running intellectually naked.
    Voters converted – minus ‘a lot’.

  449. 449
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/candidate-claim-untrue/2007/11/20/1195321763222.html

    Labors candidates are good.

  450. 450
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    No 448

    It is possible to maintain a theme without talking in endless clichee.

  451. 451
    Steph
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    One swinging voter on Insiders mentioned that they were now 99% sure they were going to vote for Rudd on the strength of his interview on Rove. Kevin knows what he’s doing.

  452. 452
    Steve K
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    413
    Hemingway

    “Didn’t come across as a “demolition” to me, so could you please elaborate on which questions you think made O’Brien’s interview so terrible for Howard.”

    Try the first question and then the last – and then those in between. It was a wrecking ball experience. If you can’t see that then I suggest you watch it again on-line and the ABC site. I have no time tonight for details so I’ll leave you to your own resources.

  453. 453
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Grog, the truth is the Libs are sunk :)

  454. 454
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    It’s simple…..the old coot has dementia.

  455. 455
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    No 449

    That article doesn’t say that at all.

  456. 456
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Howard on 7.30 Report … “there is no such thing as a changeless change of government” WTF?!?!?!?!?!

  457. 457
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    @446
    Run’o’ the mill Generic

    As long as you believe it it’s ok. Stay away from all sharp objects….and from the tone of your other posts all barnyard animals.

    Goodnight Irene.

  458. 458
    kina
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Never feel sorry for Howard – he would put you in a detention centre without blinking if it meant a bunch of votes. Don’t ever misunderstand what motivates this creature.

  459. 459
    Pathological Logic
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Of course, according to the gospel of Generic Person, we don’t actually need to wait for the ridiculous extravagance of actually hearing Rudd on the 7:30 Report tomorrow to know what it’s going to be like.

    Assemble a post-mortem from the following:

    “Generic”; “cliche-ridden”; “weak”; “no new policies”; “reactionary”; “same old me-tooism”; “not a serious candidate”; “lack of vision”; “creamed by Kerry”; “creamed by Howard”; “union bosses”; “can’t manage ONE TRILLION DOLLAR ECONOMY”.

    You’re stuffed. Get used to it.

  460. 460
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    “It is possible to maintain a theme without talking in endless clichee.”

    Yeah, agree, better than talking bullsh*t, like “Howard had Kerry around his finger.”

  461. 461
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    No 452

    It was not a demolition at all. Talking in hyperbole doesn’t make your case any stronger.

    It was fairly even handed and it was by no means a poor performance by Howard.

  462. 462
    Gezza
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Now that we have caught up over here in Alexander “brings yer” Downer land, I must say that Kerry did a wonderful job on Howard. I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the slow water torture (It’s not really torture of course so what’s good for the gander is good for the goose). The economic stuff would have lost some viewers, but it was worth it for the obvious pain that Kerry put the rodent through & then more, in for the kill until finally came the dry run of the concession speech when the discussion turned to the Senate & was followed by Kerry’s final epitaph – RIP dishonest John

  463. 463
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Yep Howard was the same old Howard, mean, tricky and full of lies and rationalisations to suit his way of the world. Pity no one else asks him tough questions. Maybe Kerri Anne, Alan Jones or Neil Mitchell will work out what a question means and ask him a toughy.

  464. 464
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Toby, it sure was great to see Kerry finally give Howard the interview he deserved knowing no longer will Howard be trying to vandalise the ABC.

  465. 465
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    I thought I’d never say this , but:

    ALL HAIL THE ACTU

    They have flooded the Sydney TV channels with anti-Workchoices ads, meaning that Labor ads now outnumber Lib ads by at least 2:1. This is the endgame – win this and on Saturday, victory will be ours!!!

  466. 466
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Generic Person, I thought Howard did ok… there were no embarassments that will make for a headline or other news.

    However, surely you realise they all use slogans, cliches and are repetitive. It’s how you cut through in a largely disinterested population.

    It certainly makes you wonder what position Labor would be in today if they’d stuck with Beazley. Arguably of more substance, but I just don’t think he cut through.

  467. 467
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    No 460

    And the bullshit about Howard being demolished? Come off it.

  468. 468
    Edward StJohn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    465 – Swing Lowe

    Revealing your true “prejudices” hey?

  469. 469
    HooHoo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Song – What about You’re History by Shakespeares Sister.

    And what was the consensus from Insight from the undecideds.

  470. 470
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    @467

    Medication time.

  471. 471
    Peter Kemp
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Sun Tsu said, “Do not interfere with an army that is returning home.”

    OTOH if their general is caught with a few of his minions, the chopping and casting of the pieces thereof to the jackals was most likely an acceptable outcome for Sun Tsu.

    I’ll never feel sorry for Howard, ever, I want to see him prosecuted for crimes against humanity and war crimes right up to his last breath of his most disgraceful, reprehensible, ignominious, odious political life.

  472. 472
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Steph: sums up this country perfectly. Gee those swinging voters are a deep thinking lot. Just like Four Corners last week, we have a bunch of dills from coast to coast.

  473. 473
    Edward StJohn
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Well comrades,

    I am open to wagers on Friday’s Galaxy poll any offers?
    A little less conversation a little more action comrades!
    What say you?

  474. 474
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    No 466

    As much as I loathe Beazley’s politics, I thought he was decent clear-cut bloke.

    Rudd’s a chameleon.

  475. 475
    George
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    …” it was by no means a poor performance by Howard”

    Sure, if you’re comparing it to a one legged blind man trying to light a cigarette via a piece of hot coal rammed up his bum

  476. 476
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    kina, you’re dead right. Treat him like nuclear waste. Bury him so deep he can never return.

  477. 477
    Toby
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    How can news.com.au run the headline “Election could end up in court” and expect people to take them seriously?

  478. 478
    John Hunt Is A Coward
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    The tit for tat here has to stop. More importantly did anyone notice Howard’s eyebrows were quite a few shades darker than yesterday?

    Oh the vanity!!!

    When Kerry gracefully thanked Howard for the rabbits over the years and a good life in retirement, Howard said it is important to make yourself available because you have to be accountable.

    Kerry responded by saying: Well yes but that didn’t mean you answered many of the questions.

    Oh the irony!!!

  479. 479
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Not really, ESJ – I just really REALLY want to win. How we get there is irrelevant to me…

  480. 480
    Gippslander
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    GE says
    “Of more interest is whether Rudd will replicate a similar performance without trotting through the same old clichees on working families and illusive future plans.”

    I’m sure I won’t be the first to suggest that future plans are not a bad thing, or that working families deserve some consideration.

    I might be the first to wonder why you’ve turned cliché feminine.

  481. 481
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    ESJ, I don’t see it being any higher than 54, no lower than 52. Now I realise that gives me a bit of wriggle room but hey.

    I’ll settle for 53/47 and barely anything separating Libs/Lab on the primaries.

  482. 482
    Julie
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    Re 253,

    Liz Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
    I did the GG on-line poll. I recommend it highly. The best questions are; “If John Howard was a dog, what sort would he be?’ Then the same for Rudd.

    Liz, I couldn’t find this. I just found an online poll where you can say how you will vote at the election. [Coming from a safe Labor seat, my electorate is to date going to elect Labor with 78% of the onlinline vote ;-) ] Can you post a link or direct me with specific directions how to find this one? Thanks :) :) ….

  483. 483
    paul k
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    GP,

    What are you worried about? According to you Howard is going to win all 150 seats and you’ll be drunk on Saturday night. So relax.

  484. 484
    Grog
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    455 GP, sorry but, “That’s B*llsh*t”

    “The Age was able to contact 10 of the 12 candidates, all of
    whom said they had resigned from their Government-paid positions before nominating for Parliament.”

    They said they had resigned, not “potentially”, not “maybe”, not “I’ll get back to you”, not “after the election we’ll look into it on a case by case basis”, not “my legal advice is”.

    And then lets use an example:

    Rob Mitchell, Labor candidate for McEwen, who was named on Mr Robb’s dossier as an adviser to Victorian Agriculture Minister Joe Helper, said he resigned on October 26 and his candidacy was lodged on October 30.

    OK you can say they’re lying, but give us some proof (you know that stuff usually required before making accusations)

  485. 485
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Howard was so humiliated that all he could do was go for the sympathy vote by speaking very softly and then looking like he was going to cry every time Kerry held him to account over a) history, b) economics c) bullshit d) anything you care to mention.

    And there was a headline, in fist six months of re-elected Howard Gov the frameworks for Nukes would be put in place.

  486. 486
    Steve K
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Generic Person Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    No 452

    “It was not a demolition at all. Talking in hyperbole doesn’t make your case any stronger.

    It was fairly even handed and it was by no means a poor performance by Howard.”

    It was a shockingly bad performance by Howard. He will be mortified by it for the next 48 hours which only leaves him with a further 48 hours before he delivers his farewell speech.

  487. 487
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    A song for Turnball- re last night’s 7.30 Report item.

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IRHA9W-zExQ

  488. 488
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Gerr, nuclear hasn’t been an issue so far in the election and it won’t be. The nuclear reactor in your back yard scare has to be the most obvious and most lame scare… well not really… I’m still not scared of union bosses after the whole year.

  489. 489
    Graeme
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Howard and O’Brien were like two old farts in a tinny, sparring about irrelevancies and reminiscences.

  490. 490
    onimod
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    448 GP
    I agree in principle, and as objectionable as I find the mindless talk of all politicians – apparently the ALP cliches are better than Howard’s.
    Howard can’t even remember them – what will the voters thinking of on Saturday?

  491. 491
    John Hunt Is A Coward
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Here is a good rendition of the 7.30 interview

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44gE&feature=related

  492. 492
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Frank, I suggested ‘blue sky mining’ earlier…

  493. 493
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    the goodbye between Kez and the Rodent was class.

  494. 494
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Lose the election

    Howard all but said ‘f*ck yeah’ to putting the framework in place while he has contol of the senate. You may not be worried but I dont want nukes here.

  495. 495
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    No 486

    You’re living on a different planet if you thought that was a shocking performance. But it’s to be expected from leftist zealots who would claim any Howard interview as a shocking performance.

  496. 496
    red wombat
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    #493

    the goodbye between Kez and the Rodent was class.

    Pity Jho will have forgotten he was on the show by tomorrow morning.

  497. 497
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    GP,

    No, most of us thought that JWH handled himself well in the TT interview. Not that that required much effort…

  498. 498
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I agree Average Person ‘any Howard interview is a shocking performance.’ Also you should see someone about your fear of broccoli.

  499. 499
    Alan H
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    467 GP I suspect that you just may be even less intelligent than Howard. He failed General Maths at the Leaving. Rudd got the highest possible result in the equivalent examinations in Queensland. Please understand that intelligent people take your opinions with a grain of salt, in other words they realise what absolute crap they are, and ignore them. You and EStJ make a delightful pair, farting into the wind in unison. Trouble is, it all become a bit liquid, and its running down your leg.

    cheers,

    Alan H

  500. 500
    Goodbye Mr T
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    The best part of the interview was the exposure of rodent’s sham claims of being a great economic reformer. He didnt have the guts to pursue deregulation under Fraser and rode on the back of Hawke and Keating’s reforms over the last ten years.

  501. 501
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    GP. i’ve alsways found that only verbose people use the word verbose, and the same goes for ‘zealots’,

  502. 502
    AM
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    456

    middle man

    Isn’t that why we vote for the other bloke because we want change, Howard is screwed whichever way you look at it.

  503. 503
    Lose the election please
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Gerr, nuclear reactors will not be built in Australia until it has bipartisan support. They will not get anyone to invest in nuclear until that happens because of the large time frame it takes to set up. If the government was to change there’d be a lot of money and time lost.

    I don’t want nuclear either, but I recognise it’s not an issue that is going to win votes. Otherwise the ALP would be running hard on it.

  504. 504
    centaur_007
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Cheesman has taken the lead in Coorangimite odds and Mcmillan is all also ahead. Deakin is 10cent difference. Go Victoria!!

  505. 505
    Generic Person
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    No 499

    LOL How intelligent you are by judging the entire record of the Government on the basis of whether Howard had the capacity to pass a general maths exam.

    You’re uselessy condescending utterances are resplendent in their mediocrity.

  506. 506
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Which site, centaur?

  507. 507
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Ok ‘The election’ you win this time….but we’ll meet again….

  508. 508
    Thommo
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Yeah look guys Generic is right. Howard performed no differently in that interview to any he has had in the last 11.5 years.

  509. 509
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Peter Kemp @ 471: “I’ll never feel sorry for Howard, ever, I want to see him prosecuted for crimes against humanity and war crimes right up to his last breath of his most disgraceful, reprehensible, ignominious, odious political life.”

    O/T, but have you encountered “The Ghost” by Robert Harris?

    A thriller on that very subject, but about Blair. I’ve nearly finished it. Excellent stuff.

  510. 510
    Arbie Jay
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Gerr

    Nukes have to put in place in the first six months if Howard is elected, after that he loses control of the senate. The libs only have a window of opportunity of six months but you can do a lot in six months.

    Labor laid out the first 5 things they would do, what are the libs first 5 things.

    1. Set the 25 Nuclear power station sites in legislation so that they cannnot be overturned without massive compensation.

    2. Abolish the Fairness Test, its unworkable and is only a minor adjustment to Work Choice.

    3.Renege on the hospitals deal, it is unworkable as shown with Mersey.

    4.legislate on contractors, making it easier for employees to be employed as contractors rather than employees, this effectively abolishes the minimum wage.

    5.Tie funding to further reform, ie states must put their workers, nurses, firies etc on Work Choices to receive funding.

  511. 511
    libsrok
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Edward look at my post #429 and before I actually stuck up for you over your honoring the bet. dont carry on like a wanker now.

  512. 512
    VoterBoy of Over the Water
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    GP @ 505: “You’re uselessy condescending utterances are resplendent in their mediocrity.”

    Oh, that we could have your effortless mastery of the English language.

  513. 513
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    @508

    Geezuz another one….

    they’re breeding delusions at young Lib HQ

  514. 514
    middle man
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    AM. i’m with you. bring on the change!!

  515. 515
    mad cow
    Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Yay.. Jim Arneman is down to 2.10
    and.. Mike Bailey is down to 3.90

    bring it on.. bring it on :)

  516. 516