Four observations that grabbed me from Insiders this morning. One from Barrie Cassidy:
• “Paul Keating described his win in 1993 as one for the true believers. Last night’s was not. Kevin Rudd promised to govern for all Australians. His appeal within the Labor Party itself is tempered because of his conservative cautious stance on so many issues. He will be seen as the leader the party had to have to beat John Howard. Julia Gillard will be the light on the hill.”
Three from George Megalogenis:
• “I suspect Jackie Kelly tipped (Bennelong) over the line for Maxine McKew. Her performance that Thursday morning on AM radio – my understanding of the tracking polls, a few of them went mad on Thursday night. There was actually swings back to Labor in marginals where there were previously narrowings through the week.”
• “Going into this election, 12 out of the top 30 seats for single mothers were held by the Coalition. They’ve lost eight straight off the bat, another three are doubtful, they’ll be left with one out of 30. (Cassidy: Why?) Welfare to work. Mal Brough. May have been popular in the intervention into Aboriginal affairs, but you know, he wanted single mums to go to work. And if they didn’t go to work they were going to lose their benefits. If you think that this didn’t shift votes where the government didn’t expect them … I think it did.”
• “The Liberal Party needs to have a good hard look at its membership base. This wasn’t just Lindsay, we saw a breakout at the Press Club on Thursday where Liberal Party members were heckling female journalists including Michelle Grattan, I think there was a meanness of spirit in the Liberal Party this year that came from its grass roots. I don’t know what it’s about, but Peter Costello (sic) needs to have a good look at it.”
To elaborate on the second point. I don’t have figures on single mothers specifically, but Megalogenis’s demographic tables include data for single parents which shows 11 previously Coalition-held seats in the top 30: Wakefield, Cowper, Lindsay, Leichhardt, Dunkley, Dobell, Solomon, Page, Robertson, Kingston, Bass, with Macarthur, Hasluck, Blair, Herbert and Longman not far out. The only definite survivor out of these is Dunkley, with Labor narrowly ahead in Solomon, Robertson and Herbert, just trailing in Cowper and Macarthur, and victorious in the other nine.
862 Comments
ShowsOn – you mentioned you were standing next to Pyne yesterday – which booth was he at? I think you said you were going to be at Higbury South sometime? What times did you have there?
Ah yes, the greatest irony of all, the big huggable Jackie Kelly, Mr Howard’s great champion of the ‘battlers’ finally took the lid off the stinking fish heads of the NSW Liberal party just in time for everyone to get a good whiff.
Bless her cotton socks, and her amazingly stupid mouth!
Re point 3: Does anyone have a link to what happened at the Press club? Or more details?
Another good reason for the Libs to elect Turnbull as leader. He is smart enough, tough enough and rich enough to demand and get a thorough purge of the NSW Liberal Party. Most of its staff should be sacked and the Ugly faction led by Clarke should be expelled. if they don’t do this they’ll be in opposition for ever.
I was at Highbury South from 11:30 – 5:00.
Pyne was there from about 2 – 3.
It seems as though Karen Chijoff might not have known about the pamphlets.
Apparently she turned up the booth yesterday without her husband, and with no wedding ring on. She said that her husband has moved out, and that she has not spoke to her husband for a while…..
Or is she saying this to save herself?
Anyone heard anything?
Speaking of pollies, we were at a 4yr olds birthday party yesterday arvo, and one guy had just voted in Bennelong earlier and who should pass by, with his horde in tow, but the Rodent itself. He grabbed the blokes wife’s hand and then his, so he quickly shot off “Enjoy your retirement Mr Howard” to the loud groans of his entourage.
I went down on my knees and shook the hand that had farewelled the Rodent! Oh, did we have a good laugh when I told them not to worry about the ‘narrowing’ and we’d see the Rodent finished off by 8.30 or 9.00. Everyone was palpably relieved when I told them it was finished, Rudd would win handsomely.
Does it really matter? Surely her political career is dead. If she ever runs again Labor will just bring up Kakie Jelly-Gate
I dont think Brendan Nelson is captive to the Christian Right either Adam.
Adam what are your thoughts on the Deputy Leadership?
I think Julie Bishop will be elected unopposed, WA is our last bastion of support it would be foolish to deny their most senior member a high profiled position IMHO.
It’s official!
Steven Kaye is a dickhead
1243
neophyte
Bloody GOLD my friend. Thank you for that link. So much happens on a daily basis that you tend to foget the details of those previous litany of lies and propoganda peddling. Both video clips were excellent. Brilliant get.
ShowsOn 8
Agreed that her career is gone. I simply brought it up a an interesting side point. Politics can be so fickled that you career is killed through no fault of your own…..
I though that Brendan was a gay former ALP member from modbury (not there is anything wrong with that) so definitely not a captive of the religous right
Shows On @ 5. Would you happen to be poor unfortunate soul who was stuck with the 2 young libs? (were you wearing the Kevin-07 t-shirt?).
Is Malcolm the only one to put up the hand for the Libs leadership?
Is Vaile staying on as deputy?
Vaile was deputy PM, leader of NATs only so he was never deputy
Julie Bishop is as dumb as a post. She will make excellent deputy material.
I think the liberals can pick who they want for the leadership team, it will all change in 9-12 years when they will get a cyclic look in at a general election. What sort of loser would want it now?
Made it to the Tally Room last night, had to wait about 90 minutes in a queue with my daughters.
Worth the wait though, wanted my kids to experience the histroic occassion.
Saw tears in Hockeys eyes, only a couple of metres from him, Julia came to the front of the stage to wild cheers, Kerry walked the floor later, Tanya was very, very happy. Great crowd and atmosphere, recommend it if any can make the next one.
Yelled Nantuck Sleigh Ride to Antony about 4 times and Pollbludger a couple of times for good measures.
Did Antony actually use Nantucket Sleigh Ride last night himself?:)
Yep that was me. Here’s some things they talked about:
Mussolini was great, because he got trains to run on time
Tasmania should only have 1 seat in the House of Reps
There shouldn’t be a senate
State governments should be abolished
There never was a hole in the ozone layer
Robert Mugabe only became a tyrant after his Christian wife died (this point was seconded by the Family First volunteer) I challenged this by saying Mugabe is a strict Catholic, who even attended the funeral of the last Pope.
I C Moore 16
Yes, I meant is he staying on as deputy leader of the opposition?
I am assuming the coalition agreement still holds up, and the Nationals leader is the deputy leader when the coalition are in opposition.
BTW, question to all, when is the next poll coming out? LOL
Sorry, force of habit….
NY Times report on the result – liked this bit:
“Mr. Rudd, 18 years younger than Mr. Howard, has a reputation as a cerebral student of policy, as opposed to the Liberal leader’s image of a hardened and aggressive political animal.”
What sort of animal could they possible mean?
Swan looks gone. Labor up by 39 now, with postals to come…
6 Sir Eggo This was in the ‘Curious Snail’ today.
LIBERAL candidate Karen Chijoff, who revealed yesterday she had split from husband Greg after he was caught distributing fake race-hate election flyers, appeared last night to have lost her bid to win the crucial western Sydney suburbs seat of Lindsay.
Labor candidate David Bradbury had an 11.5 per cent swing and was ahead of Ms Chijoff on primary votes.
Lindsay, held since 1996 by retiring Liberal MP Jackie Kelly, hit the headlines this week when Ms Chijoff’s husband Greg and Ms Kelly’s husband Gary Clark were caught distributing a phony leaflet from a fake Islamic group claiming Labor wanted the Bali bombers forgiven and supported building a local mosque.
“I’m not speaking to him any more,” she said yesterday while casting her ballot. “I’m personally outraged by the offensive and unauthorised material.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22817525-5013650,00.html
Sir Eggo, Vaile has already indicated he wants to stay on as leader of the Nats no matter what (Yesterday). Therefore we would be the Dep leader of the opposition, barring any bunfights.
Evening all
Can anybody tell me when Mr Rudd officially becomes the PM? I initially thought that he needed a vote of support from Parliament, but after reading up last week learnt this isn’t the case.
I assume it’s when he goes to visit the GG, and thus assume that this will happen after the Labor caucus meeting.
Does this mean Howard makes executive calls until then? If a national emergency arose, who would make the call? You would assume Howard would do what Rudd told him to do, as I imagine caretaker conventions are still in place, but I am curious as to the technicalities.
I trust you have all been enjoying your day of jubilee. The senate ensures it will be an interesting few years to follow.
Everyone needs to watch Shanahan’s report. He looks very tired / emotional / disappointed:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22458164-5013871,00.html
Fozzy (3), some of the local libs took to heckling the journos, because they believed that the journos were focusing too much on the Lindsey incident when asking questions of the then PM. They even had the temerity to heckle La Gratton! The then PM was also exasperated: ‘What more can I say?’ he asked. He did condemn the Lindsey alleged breachers of the Electoral Act in every which way except for one thing. He was careful not to say that that their activity was ‘racist’. I suppose that is one reason why Labour now holds the top thirty of the seats with the highest number of foreign born voters. Some soul searching needs to be done on the use of the race dog whistle. Some nice bookends for the historians. At the beginning of the larger campaign period we had Haneef, the Sudanese refugees (remember: the then Minister Andrews decided to limit the number of Sudanese refugees after a young Sudanese was murdered early in the election? Imagine how the youth’s family felt!). Lindsey was the other campaign bookend. The larger, government-long, bookend was Howard co-opting the Hanson dog whistle in the early days of this Government, only in the end to find that the battlers rated their rights at work a bit higher than the siren calls of racism and xenophobia and related calls to patriotism, security and militarism. A sorry national saga. Let’s all hope the Wets rally, regroup, reflect and set a new agenda for the loyal opposition.
ShowsOn @ 21. We actually met yesterday – I came in during your shift at about 3.15 & then stayed on the scrutineer (stood at the other entrance).
Mia & Mike Rann were there during my shift earlier in the day – pity they didn’t arrive when Pyne was there to cause a bit of a stir
Julie Bishop – cold, metallic, spooky, freaky rightwing – the opposite of Julia
I imagine Howard would consult Rudd. Howard is still acting-P.M., Rudd is P.M.-elect.
Cool! Pity it didn’t work out for Mia, looks like she has lost by about 1000 votes.
Unfortunately I arrived just as Mia was leaving. I talked to her a bit on Thursday night, and told her if she didn’t win, there was always the senate.
IC Moore – apparently Brendan Nelson had a gay brother (now deceased). You may be confusing that story with Nelson’s own sexuality. As for being a former member of ALP I think thats right.
From a gay rights perspective it would be really interesting to see Turnbull as Opposition leader. In order to hang on to his seat he will have to play nice on gay rights but how will that sit with the far-right in his party?
And who will the Exclusive Bretheren have left to support?
If Turnbull or Nelson become leader, you can expect the Liberal party to make a big step left on social policy.
Expect support for civil unions, equal rights for homosexuals, the end of support for the Pacific Solution and support for the Republic and Aboriginal Reconciliation.
The Liberal party will go back to its base after this election and try to rebuild from there…
29 Boerwar. The material wasn’t racist (there wasn’t even a race mentioned). Certainly defamatory to the Labor party though.
ShowsOn. Yes, it is a real pity. She certainly held her own with Pyne in a couple of public forums I attended & I was most impressed with the way she relates to the people around her – all round, a very nice person & would make a very good representative.
Highbury South ended up having a pretty good swing – more than the minimum required. It looks like Beaumont, Burnside & the other “Born to Rule” suburbs didn’t deliver enough votes in the end according to the AEC site.
What are people’s thoughts on the likely final seat count after doubtfuls have been decided?
i was going thru scenarios in my head as to what the Libs do now re: leadership,direction,policy,membership,money etc etc
i came to the conclusion they are focked.
its gonna get very nasty,very desperate and very unedifying to the public.
to sum up their future i would say:
temporary/permanent irrelevance.
i mean, they have been flatly rejected at every level of office in the land …. and the worst is to come.
ABC is now projecting 88 seats for Labor. I think that’s a trifle optimistic – I’m expecting something around 85 or 86 seats (although I’d be glad to be proven wrong).
So is it true – $weeite is outta there!!!
Can you remember what the final 2pp for Highbury South was?
I believe it was 62/38 last time. Even 55/45 would’ve been good.
One good thing about the result Boerwar is that awful dog whistling has now stopped.
As for Howard doesn’t he have to make a second concession to Maxine in Benelong when the seat is finally called.
“Hello Maxine, it’s John, I’m ringing to say I have conceded”
“Hello, John, sorry can’t hear you, you’re ringing to say your constipated?”
“No, no, I’m conceding, conceding”
“You’re conceited?, yes we know that, so why are you calling?”
All this of course whilst the speaker phone is on and everyone is rolling around the floor doubled over in laughter.
Matt Price dies, age 45.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22818522-7582,00.html
“And who will the Exclusive Bretheren have left to support?”
Didn’t they say that it would be the beginning of the end of the world with a loss of Howard? They seemed to think he was some kind of God-appointed messiah.
Sadly off-topic, Matt Price has lost his battle with cancer. Story & open comments for condolences can be found here
“i mean, they have been flatly rejected at every level of office in the land …. and the worst is to come.”
It can’t get much worse than this so i dispute your comment.
Malcolm Turnbull – Julie Bishop leadership team does it for me.
Yes, sad news about Matt. Was very sudden too.
SwingLowe: The gay community will hold Turnbull to this stance on gay rights. It would be amazing if the Libs are the ones that pressure the ALP on gay rights, though I doubt it in their first term of opposition. If Tanner is right in saying that the ALP will move on gay rights, then I would hope Turnbull says that the Libs want a bi-partisan approach. In fact, for the Libs to regain the lower-l liberal voters, they might actually have do the bipartisan approach on the ALP social policy. Time will tell.
On a personal note, I was at the Laird Hotel celebrating last night. This is a gay hotel in inner north of Melbourne. Only a few people were upset, including my partner. I think amazingly he started asking me more questions about how government works. He still wonders why majority of the gay community votes Greens and ALP. I hope a few years under a federal Labor government will help him see it’s not all that bad.
ShowsOn, TPP was 53.89/46.11.
Here’s the breakdown of the other booths according to the AEC:
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionTcpByPollingPlace-13745-190.htm
So when “The Gimp” finally gets the chance to lead the party he goes scurrying and hides in the corner yelling “no master, no master”……….just doesn’t have it in him.
Glen
Try a DLP-style split:
Nelson, Tunrbull Gerrgio etc become the True Liberal Party.
While The far right Christians become the Christian Liberal Party.
I’m not suggesting it’s likely. Just conceivable – and worse.
[ShowsOn, TPP was 53.89/46.11.
Here’s the breakdown of the other booths according to the AEC:
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionTcpByPollingPlace-13745-190.htm
That’s so sad… so close but so far, including a few booths with double figure swings.
Splits never work out well RA, and unless we lose another 25 seats in 2010 i don’t see such a thing happening.
Glen,
it is all very well to say Malcolm or Brendan or Julie but do you think the Right are going to lay down and cop that?
The uglies are the powerbrokers at the moment. that is a big part of your problem.
which direction is your party going to go/
what will be their ideals?
what will be their goals?
what will be their policy?
a fight is looming because of the dominance and subseviance to JWH all these years.
it won’t be pretty and its gonna take a long time.
what are your answers?
Max, I answered the question about the leadership handover earlier. Howard will be PM, with full executive authority, until he formally resigns. That will be on Friday at the earliest. If a 9/11-type disaster happened tomorrow, Howard would be in charge, although he’d probably consult with Rudd.
I agree that a Turnbull-Bishop ticket would give the Libs the best short-term prospects.
Who says Nelson is a social liberal? I’ve never seen any sign of it.
Yes because who in the hard right has the numbers and who in the hard right has profile to lead us.
The uglies are not the powerbrokers atm they may be in some parts of NSW but not nationally.
Let’s wait and see who the new leader is before we speculate on how the party is going to change.
Maybe it was an alcohol induced blur, but I seem to recall Malcolm Turnbull rambling incoherently about “The Serfs” in his victory speech last night.
Not sure if that was wise, but can’t believe that Dr Nelson is seriously being mentioned as leader – no bathhouse in the country would be the same again.
Landeryou is advocating Kevin Andrews as Leader of the Opposition:
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2007/11/good-to-go-malcolm-turnbull-first-out.html
This demonstrates the problems for the Liberal right – Andrews is probably the most qualified right-winger left in the Liberal party. What this means is that the Uglies are going to have to put up with a Wet being Leader, with hopefully a fellow Ugly being deputy Leader. I have my doubts on that, though…
Thanks Adam
I have trouble seeing the same people who said Julia Gillard was unfit because she was “Barren” passionately arguing for the right of two Lesbians to marry.
And that might be where Turnbull takes the party.
There are serious numbers of current Liberal party members who would ideaologically more at home in the ALP right. (Which is now comftably overlapping the original Liberal Wets. That’s got to cause some tension.)
Andrews wont be deputy, Bishop will and shes not Christian right you guys.
According to ABC News, Andrew Robb just threw his hat into the ring as Opposition leader…
WPC @ 36
Your comment made me think a bit and I come out of it with some uncertainty with respect to Lindsey, because I do not know the material well enough. My understanding of it in the general and the particular (Lindsey) is that with a racist dog whistle you actually do not need to actually mention race. You put some cues in there so it is just understood. Therefore you have your cake and eat it too. You can be racist without it being possible for you to be called out as racist. It depends on your target audience being ‘in the know’. The beauty of it is that if your opponents get grumpy about it you just brand them ‘PC’. It all has a certain sort of system beauty. For the Lindsey material. for a successful dog whistle, there would need to be cues to muslims and bali bombers. The audience would be expected to put two and two together, so they generate a personal ‘Aha!’ moment.
The husband-wife parliamentary team seems to be becoming popular. Jon Sullivan, new member for Longman, is the husband of Carryn Sullivan, state member for Pumicestone. Belinda Neale, new member for Robertson, is the wife of NSW Minister John Della Bosca. Any others come to mind?
63# LOL
Matt Price, dead, according to Sky
How dumb is this from Christopher Pearson:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22810937-5013596,00.html
The demeanour of the Canberra press gallery at large towards the Prime Minister in his last campaign address bordered on the churlish, although there were the usual honourable exceptions.
….
Nearly half of question time on the last formal occasion of the campaign was wasted on an ill-considered stunt of no real importance. It’s hard to imagine that in London or Washington the press corps on the eve of national elections would use such a trivial pretext for none-too-subtle barracking. But the gallery often behaves like a rather ratty co-ed boarding school, with Michelle Grattan, the political editor of The Age, an earnest but dull head girl. On Thursday Grattan forgot her prefect’s badge and engaged in a spot of unseemly barracking. It was no more than she deserved when government staffers started booing her.
Are you serious about Andrew Robb?
Glen – Weirdly enough, I’m not joking.
Nelson is an opportunist – AMA president who sold his soul to be in Govt.
He is the quintessential Liberal “Star Candidate” he has no factional backing (yes the Libs have factions – just like Labor).
He is likely to be another casualty – get the stethescope ready. We need more doctors.
I know you weren’t i was laughing out loud that Andrew zzzzzzzz Robb would put himself up as a Leadership contender
Like the Sun said it’ll be a Melbourne Cup field of candidates.
Kerry Obrien and Michael B will lap this up wont they next week.
Can a Senator realistically be the opposition leader? Would the deputy leader handle HoR business?
63 Marko good joke, but the ALP isn’t that lucky!
The Lindsay material was designed to link Labor with Muslims, not with any race. Islam is not a race, it’s a religious ideology. It’s perfectly possible to be a white Muslim – ask Abu Hicks if you can find him. Muslims are thoroughly unpopular in western Sydney, hence the dog whistle about a mosque in St Mary’s, the most working-class part of Lindsay.
Adam,
I asked a question of you at 401 on the previous thread, which you may not have seen, so I’ll repeat it here – just in case you read this:
‘Adam (if you are viewing),
‘In ‘Idle speculation about the federal election’ (10/2/2007), you said that a “Rudd government will probably be the nearest thing to a Christian Democrat government Australia has ever had”. Do you maintain that view? I have said on one thread that Kevin Rudd will be our first DLP prime minister. I just wanted to say it first, but I am sure someone else in the ALP or the media will say it at a future date, just as they said that Steve Bracks was Victoria’s first DLP premier.
‘I also wonder how soon the usual suspects will start attacking the Rudd Government on the same issues as they attacked the Howard Government and how the ALP will deal with the internal tensions that arise from Mr Rudd’s election-winning conservatism and the ALP activists’ trendyism.’
Bloody Hell
If Mr. Personality (Robb) runs for leader, politics will soooooo exciting
Sarcasm meter just blew up…..
Adam, somehow I don’t think it’s the white Muslim’s that racist Australia are worried about.
51
red wombat
He doesn’t even have the numbers! This is Bracket Creep chucking the biggest dummy spit in Oz politics since, well, Latham actually.
Instead of them rolling Howard for him, 18 months ago, they wouldn’t back him, so now he’s just telling them to shove it.
Great “TEAM” huh?
Glen,
Console yourself with the thought that if you’re going to have a leadership contest, you may as well get it right the first time. So if there are a lot of candidates, there’s a better chance of getting the right person elected than if someone was appointed by unanimous acclimation.
Of course, Robb as opposition leader would only be marginally worse than Andrews (actually, I think Robb may be better).
Maybe Robb has found that according to google he has some support
Maybe this was mentioned earlier? If not more info:
NEWSPAPER columnist and political sketch writer Matt Price has died in Perth, just hours after votes were cast in the federal election he had planned to cover.
Price, 46, died today after being diagnosed in September with brain tumours.
Prime Minister-elect Kevin Rudd today expressed shock at the death of the political journalist and commentator and paid tribute to his work.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22818841-2,00.html
No.
You think Downer wishes Costello had told him his decision before Downer wen t on Insiders?
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2007/s2100454.htm
BARRIE CASSIDY: Malcolm Turnbull won his seats against the odds, will that boost his stocks within the party?
ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, he has been in Parliament for 3 years and I think he’s gradually building up a bank of experience there, and I think he has a very good future in the party.
He is a very good friend of mine and I think very highly of him as a person. But look, you need to build up experience in politics and he’s doing that. Nobody in the party, well, I suppose at least in theory with the exception of me, but I’m not running for leader, but no one in the party has the experience of Peter Costello and I think there shouldn’t be a contest to the leadership. It should just go straight to Peter Costello.
On the Kath’n'Kim Movie (yes I know) there was just a line regarding Brett’s new job and the hours he is working.
Kath “If you must blame anyone, blame John Howard.”
Kim: “Who?”
It was clear from the Downer “taking of soundings” incident at the time of Apec that none of these guys talk to Costello except when unavoidable.
And it was obvious that Costello hadn’t told Howard of his future intentions before Howard’s concession last night.
If Howard knew, he wouldn’t of endorsed Costello so strongly.
William re Mega George:
dropped this on Possum yesterday
‘I live on the borderline of 2 NQ electorates, one 10% the other 7%; checked out both major booths: Not one picture or name of JWH; not one!
Big lineups, vocal women with kids knocking back liberal balloons ‘not more advertising’. Feels like it’s on.’ Thanks Poss. November 24, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Herbert & Dawson.
BTW hope all the nervous nellie mexicans enjoyed the march of the cane toads last night on meebo thingy. Ta Mr Bowe.
Maxine appears to have ruined the opening of the new parliament; JWH front centre or back…bugger.
Chris, yes I do maintain that view. On many issues Rudd is a conservative and the ALP left will not be happy with him, and of course there will be the usual rows along the way. But Rudd will deliver on his commitments – repeal WorkChoices, sign Kyoto, invest in education, fix the hospitals, get out of Iraq – so the party faithful won’t have much to complain about. His remarks about Bernie Banton showed that he is an orthodox Labor man in many ways. The unions will get due recognition but won’t be allowed to dominate. Of course it’s a mistake to assume that unions always pressure from the left. The right-wing unions, the SDA and the AWU, will have a big voice in the Rudd government.
As I recall, Rudd was criticised early in his leadership because he decided to go the full monte on a one-election strategy. The first thing the libs need to do is assess whether one-election or two-election is the better strategy. If two elections, pick some one who will make up ground, get damaged and get ditched after the next election. If one term, try to pick a one-election winner. Hmmm. They would need a serious set of national disasters for the latter option to be at all credible. Not impossible with some of the external independent variables operating world-wide. Still, they should probably be looking for the human sacrifice-as-leader right now.
as funny as Robb sounds as Leader, he was the one i was thinking might be the man for the job right now(seeing as that gutless shit Costello has left the donkey work to others).
Robb could be the Simon Crean for the Libs for a while.
Party elder, party experience,steady,boring and eminently expendable.
18 months(or 18 years , depending how bad they get) of Robb might be needed.
If Turnbull takes it now he will be crushed. He is, however, arrogant enough to want it now.
Robb…Leader
J Bishop deputy
who knows.
Robb is a joke. A dream come true for Labor.
“Any others come to mind?”
Steve Hutchins, Labor senator from NSW, used to be married to Dianne Beamer, NSW state Labor MP and former minister.
Julie Bishop on the other hand would be an investment in the future. A better looking, smoother top woman in politics than Julia Gillard. She has time to grow in the job since the Coalition won’t be competitive until 2013. Can you imagine? Julia versus Julie.
If none of you have seen this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2936993.ece
A whole lot of Tory rot (it is the Times, after all) about “Australia’s Mystery Landslide”
Worth a read, though it’ll get your blood boiling.
Favorite quote: “Don’t blame them, for they know not what they do.”
Which I believe makes JWH the Messiah. And here I thought Rudd was the messiah – at least according to Barnaby Joyce…
Labor’s finance spokesman Lindsay Tanner has told ABC TV’s Insiders Liberal voters do not know who they will be electing.
“If the Howard Government gets re-elected, it’s going to be a total snake pit, it’ll be a complete internal free-for-all,” he said.
Will it be even uglier now?
How quickly we all move on , or don’t. Matt Price’s untimely and very sad death has already been reported many times. Don’t start up with rubbish about this, fellow Bludgers, like Ruawake, it’s up front and personal for me. Leadership speculation in what remains of the LNP is indicative of what they have become. If they don’t have a good, very long, and very hard look, and I mean very hard look at themselves, they are an ex-Parrot of a party, IMO.
No Australian government has been defeated after one term since Jim Scullin in 1931, and that was only because of the Great Depression. There would have to be a major disaster, politically or economically, for Rudd to lose in 2010. So the chances of whoever the Libs pick as Leader ever becoming PM are pretty slim. Think Snedden, Hayden, Peacock, Beazley. That’s the real reason Costello is quitting. He blew his chance of being PM when he failed to challenge Howard, and he knows it.
94
Flash – now that would be interesting, Julie should prevail id think.
The last thing we want is a Crean fat load of good he did for Mark Latham.
We tories might as well go with half-Nelson see how he goes if he’s a disaster like Downer, give him the boot and put Turnbull in.
Julie Bishop will be the deputy leader of the Libs.
Labour has ticker
Liberal has tiptoe
Adam,
i also think Kevin will be extremely happy that FF are in a position to counter the Greens on social policy.He will get enough support in the Senate to do everything Labor wants except social policy reform….and that will suit kev fine.
it is the best possible scenario for Kevin…..not so for us progressive people of the centre, the left and the right though.
Adam @ 98 – Yep. And whoever assumes the mantle of leadership is going to have to rebuild all of the State Liberal parties as well. They can’t just expect to survive by flipping the Federal Parliament. That might – just might – take six years. Or it could take 15 years. In the meantime, they’re going to have to gin up new leaders, and they can’t do that unless they control a State or two. But, right now, even the chances of that look impossibly remote.
Funniest quote in Sat night’s ABC coverage was when Kerry O’Brien mentioned a strong “swing to the ABC”.
Too true! Especially in Bennelong.
Andrew Robb, in what little I have seen of him, comes off as quite unpleasant.
He has an air of meanness about him, fitting considering the mean spirited govt he belonged to, but in a new Liberal party perhaps not the image you want to cultivate.
The reason why we’ve not heard from Nelson is because he’s doing the numbers and when he’s got them he’ll announce. Brendan has always been tauted as a potential leader, why not give him a shot up until 2010 if he fails or doesnt bring back enough seats, we can go with Malcolm who’ll by then have oodles of experience in politics.
Julie Bishop and Malcolm Turnbull could fight it out for the leadership in 2010.
Thanks, Adam. I am sure you are right about Kevin Rudd’s implementing his promises. It’s what happens next that will create some tensions. You are also right about the infl;uence of unions like the SDA and the AWU. In fact, I wonder if unions that funded non-ALP candidates should not be disaffiliated as an individual member who donated to a non-ALP candidiate woul be expelled. That would shift the balance of power in the party, wouldn’t it?
Andrew Robb is like Tony Abbott, an ex-DLPer who lost his way.
Marko @ 95,
Our resident right-wing wingnut ‘Thommo’ has actually commented on The Times’ article. So at least we know that he’s out there reducing the IQ of people in the UK as well as those here…
What a patronising article – he seems to think he knows more about how Australia should be governed than an Australian. There’s a bit too much “silly cobbers” seeping through that article for my liking.
Keating said long before that Costello will never be a Prime Minister.
He was right. What an astute politician! I’d like to hear, again, how he reach that prediction
Out of the 7 seats in doubt, it looks like Labor are going to win 6 of them.
So that would be a final result of 89 – 59 (49 + 10) – 2.
How sweet it is!
For a more favourable UK viewpoint, there’s this article from The Observer:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2216548,00.html
That’s Andrew I’ve got the personal charms of a grave Robb(er)?
For party leader? Oh, make my day!
This is getting better by the minute!
Chris, yes I think the CFMEU is on very thin ice. I have forgiven the ETU now that Mike Symon has rather unexpectedly won Deakin.
Ah, ShowsOn, we’re just colonials. What would we know?
Swing Lowe @ 108 -
I knew that. But chose to overlook it.
Oh, and for a lefty viewpoint in the UK, here’s The Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article3194066.ece
Showson, no postals have been counted yet so far. Postals always favour the Libs strongest, as they tend to be cast by elderly people.
ShowsOn
Bull butter, there’s still roughly 20% to be counted for each of those 7 seats, the Tories wont lose 6.
Downer on ninemsn -
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=322564
Proving Costello is a rat (and that Downer is delusional):
“Completely unexpected,” Mr Downer said, adding that he had yet to decide whether to throw his hat into the ring for the Liberal leadership role he quit 12 years ago.
And further proof he doesn’t get it:
The long-serving foreign affairs minister said it was impossible to say whether Mr Rudd would be a good prime minister.
“He basically put together a poll-driven campaign and done so very – let’s not be mean spirited about it – very successfully.
“Basically (Mr Rudd) put together a package built on focus groups and quantitative polling and marketed it really well.
That’s the flavour at work… you know, like when Keating dared to touch the Queen, and Fleet Street printed “Hands off Cobber!” They can’t help bringing out that sort of garbage, you know – treating us like we are all convicts.
I believe that postal votes favor the incumbent, not the Liberals, per se. Something like 60/40. Someone correct me if I’m wrong…
Harry H – I hope you’e wrong about Rudd using FF as a way to get the ALP’s socially progressive reforms to fail but we shall soon see.
Thats why I think Turnbull as Opp Leader would be interesting. Given the make-up of his seat Malcolm would surely have to allow a conscience vote on some of these issues? Im hoping he will be like Brogden was in NSW (at least on certain issues). Unfortunately that might mean he suffers the same fate as Brogden. Lets not forget Alex Hawke is in the mix now (shudder).
I think it’s the showpony ticket – all show and no substance. Turnbull *may* become a good politician with some more experience, but I think the campaign showed he’s not quite there yet. And what is it with the Libs and women with the surname “Bishop”? Julie now is like Bronwyn was in the 90s – apparently the next great Coalition woman, for no discernible reason.
I think Joe Hockey would be a solid candidate, though Workchoices does leave a bit of a taint. Brendan Nelson has been the invisible man for a while – why? A friend did float the idea that he was staying low so that he could come out of the election loss not looking too bad and assume the Opposition leadership without much trouble, but I subscribe more to the idea that he’s fairly useless.
Greetings all.
In my first post here since the truly magnificent Labor victory last night, I would firstly say congratulations to Labor supporters and the new PM, Kevin Rudd.
Having watched John Howard’s concession speech at the Wentworth hotel last night, he was statesman-like and dignified in defeat. Of course, it was a terrible way to be retire from politics, but at least he had the conviction to go down fighting for a policy in which he believed. He is the greatest PM in Australia’s history, and will remain so in my view.
I am disappointed that Costello sees no future in politics. He is still young – Howard became PM at 57, whilst Costello is 50. I enjoy his dominating performances in parliament, which would have kept question time interesting.
However, in terms of the Liberal Party’s future, I like the fact that Turnbull has entered the race because I feel he is now the best choice for moving the party forward, and as Adam said earlier, purging the disaster that is the NSW Liberal Party. Having done limited campaigning in Wentworth during the election campaign, Turnbull’s approach is something from which the Liberal Party has much to gain. The inconsistent and complex campaign of 2007 is something which should never be repeated by the Liberals.
As for my thoughts on Rudd’s prime ministership, it seems clear that if he keeps his communist front bench under control, he should be a relatively decent PM. I would also hope that he refrains from sloganeering and maintains a tough stance on illegal immigration and national security.
Oh well, I knew I was being blindly optimistic at 91 for Labor, but Kerist, me and himself indoors haven’t stopped grinning all day. “the Long Dark Teatime of the Soul” is finally over.
Andrew Robb?
Ha HA de har ha. I agree with Glen lol.
Geez Chris,
these dlp’ers are everywhere aren’t they lol
Didn’t know that about Robb.
in regard to Robb, i agree with what everyone says about him. he is an oaf, nasty, boring, hopeless….but that is all irrelevant.
the Libs have got to understand that THEY are irrelevant for the immediate future. the rebuilding must start from within and it will take time. A blonk like Robb could just wile away time federally and do some hard yard fixing behind the scenes for a few years.
the ascension, when and if it occurs, must start thru the states.
I can’t see the politically and partywise inexperienced Turnbull doing anything other than doing more longterm trouble for the Libs.
but they can do what they like. i hope they remain irrelevant.
wonder what the first royal commission will be about
my tip-worstchoices or health
The Labor leads are too big Glen, and the postal / pre-poll votes are splitting close to 50/50.
No need for a Royal Comission into WorkChoices. They just need to get rid of it.
But it would be great to see Gillard holding press conferences releasing all the workplace statistics that Hockey has suppressed.
I just checked Bennelong – it’s 51.86/48.34. Which seems a comfortable lead, just a touch over 3.5%. When will Howard concede?
Postals used strongly to favour the Liberals because rich people tended to be away from home more than poor people. That’s changed because (a) many more people are travelling (b) many more rich people vote Labor and (c) many more people are voting by post just for convenience. It’s true that postals still favour incumbents, because sitting MPs can run stronger postals campaigns by (mis)using their office facilities, but a good opposition campaign can do just as well if it is well funded.
125. GP…his communist front bench..?
Please.
So basically you think he’ll do ok, so long as he behaves like a Liberal PM.
How big of you.
If the Libs are pointing at Labor for their loss (as can be seen from Downer’s comments in 120), they can stay in opposition forever. I’ve seen Labor do a few post-mortems and it usually comes down to the campaign was f’ed, the party didn’t listen to the grass roots members, and that power needed to go more to the grass roots members not the party machines (like factions and all that). The Libs need to do a real post-mortem and actually plan for their future.
A Royal Commision into AWB would see Downer, Vaile and Truss in very deep trouble. Bring it on!
Grog you and the lefties have said you’ll think Turnbull will be good so long as he’s more progressive, don’t be a hypocrite lol!
How many of you lot read the international newspapers. SOme of the American ones have a passing mention of Australian politics. The Washington Post has what looks like a Liberal Party press release. You can find some stories here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/24/AR2007112401406.html
The original mentioned a ’swag of union bosses’
Another over at the New York Times seems to be confused over the RuddStar’s ability at Mandarin and labels him ‘The Premier of Australia’
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/world/asia/25australia.html?ref=world
But ‘The Independent’ in the UK – gets it right – and a warning – it is very harsh.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article3194066.ece
“As for my thoughts on Rudd’s prime ministership, it seems clear that if he keeps his communist front bench under control, he should be a relatively decent PM. I would also hope that he refrains from sloganeering and maintains a tough stance on illegal immigration and national security.”
yeah, thanks.. we’ll… umm… take your advice on board…. hmmm…
Pretty quickly you would imagine. Howard knows that the Liberals really don’t want a by-election.
I think Labor is playing this right in not claiming a victory.
Haven’t we already had a Royal Commission into AWB?
HarryH,
I don’t have time or the inclination to post a full list – you’d be surprised! From a former Governor-General down!
The danger for the Libs is that they become like the state parties. Some Labor people might like this to happen, but it’s bad for democracy. Even Labor Governments have to be kept under pressure, and we all benefit from strong oppositons.
Julie Bishop is utterly unimpressive. Her policies on education are IPA babble.
The likelihood is that whomever the Libs choose will not get to be PM but will be overthrown by impatient coupsters who can’t be bothered to do the actual work needed to rebuild.
Adam: Albanese and Tebbut are another.
Howard will concede once the first batch of postal votes come in. Unless they come in at a 2:1 ratio in favour of him, he’s lost the seat. So expect it to happen then…
I’ll be honest about last night and say before Qld results I was nervous. We were getting a seat here, seat there, and I was wondering where the 16 were going to come from. I even said that I was concerned to my mates who were political novices. Then Qld hit, and it was over. I never expected Qld to go THAT well. Other states went OK, but it was won in Qld.
Laborites from all over Australia are in debt to the Banana benders. I’m never going to look at that state the same way again. I wish Qld Labor supporters the best for the future
Except in the State of Origin Rugby League off course
LOL
Question without notice to all. How many of the seats that changed hands were Labor behind on primaries but won on the back of (mostly) Green preferences?
For George@139
$weetie is originaly a red-head – makes him a Communist I guess .
Glen, I don’t think Turnbull will be good. (I think Turnbull thinks he’ll be good).
Just out of curiousity, did any journo press Costello pre-election what he would do if they lost? Howard was pressed, of course, but I have no recollection that Cossie was.
Swing Lowe, my impression is that they have been counting postal ballots all day today at the AEC…
ps just got nice sms from craig thompson
pps shows on-maybe a royal commission is best because then ALL the shite that was done can be fully exposed and put on the public record (also future generations would have a guide as to not what to do)
And Worstchoices should be the first of many royal commissions imho
I agree with the person who said on the previous thread that Costello is lazy and sees as below him the job of rebuilding the party, a-la Bomber in 1996. I like to think it summarises the collective state of mind of the Liberals. In which case, they’d better get ready for a VERY long time in Opposition.
Bishop as deputy would be flogged by Julia in any respect anyone cares to mention. For the life of me I can’t see why she’s hailed as a promising prospect. If this is the best the Libs can offer, Heaven help them.
As for Rudd’s agenda, in particular the ABC, I found this article very heartening (apologies if it’s been posted before):
http://thebulletinelection.ninemsn.com.au/the_wizard_of_oz.htm
just remember royal commissions can bite those who start them up…
148 Flash – yes he was asked (can’t remember where) in the last week. He fudged.
(I’ll try and find it)
i think Rudd would be highly highly reluctant to put the Howard Government to the legal sword thru commisions and such.
but he might just make an exception for Dolly and AWB. It is personal between the 2 diplomats.
i think Rudd has total disdain for Dolly and his performances as Foreign Affairs head…especially AWB.
Generic Liberal, that was the first sensible thing I’ve ever seen you say here (apart from the last paragraph of course). Have you considered running for leader?
Re your last point. The first boatload of bearded pseudo-refugee jihadists that pokes its bow into Australian waters will learn that Rudd Means What He Says. It will be off to Xmas Island and then back to Bankruptistan with them.
The state elections are (now) always held in November – which makes the postal dynamic a little different.
As it’s just after the end of Uni, the Uni people on post-exam holidays are a larger part of the postals.
Hence the state experience (i’m lead to believe) indicates the postals favour the Liberals by less than is historically the case in November elections.
There will be as many Royal Commissions as needed to keep the Libs down for as long as desired. That’s pretty much how this game is going to be played. It will decimate the Lib leadership – which may explain why Costello is so quick to head to the exits. He’s not weak willed: he knows what’s coming.
Marko,
From the AEC website, no postals have been counted in Bennelong. They have counted the pre-polls though (which Howard won 51/49 – not enough to reverse the trend).
What is this with “white muslims” ? 75 & 78? Do you /have you lived in western Sydney? How can you say what they are afraid of?
Bosnians were white but that didnt help them much -just ask the Dutch who handed over severalthousands of males aged between 9 & 60.
Call a spade a spade. Declare your prejudices .
Thanks Grog.
Holding a Royal Commission into WorkChoices would be completely at odds with Rudd’s mantra that “it’s about the future not the past”.
Adam 136 – there will not be a further Royal Commision into AWB. There is an unwritten agreement (I wouldn’t say a convention) between political parties not to hold serious inquiries into the activities of a previous government. The rationale is that if one party does try to nail their opponents, then the other mob will do the same in return at a later date. Not a bad idea really. Better to get on with something positive. We all know that Howard, Downer and Vaile lied to the Cole commision – they have to live with that.
Who agrees with Glenn Milne that governments can no longer rely on a strong economy to win elections?
Was yesterday a sign that voters now understand that the government doesn’t really control or manage the economy, and that the real role of government is to figure out the best ways to spend money?
Here’s the rub with the Liberal leader. Whoever takes up the mantle sips from a poisoned chalice (mixing my metaphors only slightly). Labor will be in for at least 2 terms, so whoever leads now will be opp leader for at least 6 years before having a real chance of winning the 2013 election. By that time the punters are used to that person being ONLY an opp leader. Think about it. Gough got the leadership (was it ‘67?), lost in 69 but recorded (still) greatest 2pp swing. Hawkie was leader for about 3 nanoseconds before he scored the top job, Howard was made leader again in ‘95 and won in ‘96 and of course Rudd had < 12 mths in the job before winning. Whoever becomes opp leader now will not be their next PM, unless he/ she is dumped at some point and then re-claims the leadership role, and then goes on to win an election. 2016 maybe at the earliest?
So….do you think this is Costello’s game plan? To have some other shmuck sort out the carnage, lose in 2010 and then make a play for leader so he can win in 2013? Such a fanciful scenario would appeal only to the most devious mind. On the other hand, Costello is a lazy, arrogant, totally self-centred egoist (verging on the pathological variety) who has only ever thought about himself, and never had the guts to grab what he thought was rightfully his. It’s probably the latter.
Marko 157 – read my 161
Swing Lowe – Ta. They must be starting their postal count with the undecided seats first…
I agree. Not to mention a huge waste of money. We already know that WorkChoices is bad policy, and bad economically. The government should just get rid of it.
Who wrote that crap George…did you have a good night?
Alex – Sensible. It’s mutually assured destruction any other way.
Marko,
None of the undecided seats have any postals recorded as being counted. Just pre-polls. The first postals should start trickling in tomorrow…
Aussieguru01, an awesome night! Didn’t get to bed until 5AM. Howbout you?
Just read the Landeryou blog. Couldn’t work it out — is he seriously barracking for Kevin Andrews as the dark horse for the Lib leadership? Honestly?
The man is as sinister as the Blair Witch Project and his values are about two decades behind even Jonny Howard. I’d have thought Bronwyn would have a better chance than Andrews?
Did we see anything of the Exclusive Brethren? When the Lindsay scandal broke out I fully expected to see a flood of complaints, centered around their operations.
They did operate in Chisholm last time, but not a whimper here. Glen I didn’t see you at Anna Burke’s victory celebrations.
Alex, well it’s time that convention was broken. AWB was a criminal conspiracy immensely harmful to Australia’s economic and security interests, and the Cole Commission was hamstrung by its terms of reference. One way or another the truth will be brought out and when it is Downer and Vaile will be politically ruined for good.
No 151
Pathological Logic, I think you have to consider the fact that after nearly 12 years in government, it is not going to be easy for members to pick themselves up and move on. Especially someone like Costello.
In terms of Julie Bishop’s prospects, I don’t think she’ll be a good choice for any leadership job. My ideal leadership team would be a Costello and Turnbull, as leader and treasurer respectively. However, that won’t be so with Costello’s retirement.
It is sickens me that Brough was defeated in Longman. He was a talented politician and had potential to be Leader or another high-profile shadow minister.
I think the first inquiry will be in to the Haneef matter. Rudd has flagged that and I get the impression he intends to implement his programme asap.
Tiptoe may have a two-election strategy in mind. Someone else as human sacrifice for the first election, while Tiptoe ‘mentors’ up and comers (ie builds his support base). An election loss, and Tiptoe is available as white knight. He appears to have a psychological problem with being a front runner. Alternatively, he may be getting ready to pull the plug and go out and make a mozza. That would leave field that looks a bit like it has had a good dose of EI. Meanwhile, there must be something wrong with the Murray water by the time it gets to Adelaide. Dolly appears to believe that the voters must have got it all wrong. To fix it all he has to do is call for a Please Explain.
Okay, I lost my $200.00, but I’m happier than can be imagined.
Went out for breakfast this morning – I’ve never seen so many happy faces in Grayndler (the most depressed electorate in Australia, or so they said 2 years ago)!
This is good. Latham would have been better, but it’s good.
I knew waking up with Style Council’s “Walls come tumbling down” in my head was a good sign.
As for Costello’s resignation – whle Tip is a good nickname, I think VB (Victoria Bitter) may serve him well.
Maybe Robb is prepared to be the sacrifical lamb.
Just logged on for the first time since this morning – did I hear right that Matty Price passed away?
No doubt Costello remembers Gareth Evans’s complete failure to adapt to opposition after a long stint in government. Imagine having to answer your own phone!
Every early on in the campaign I wrote a post called ‘Women Ket to Election’. Can I get some feedback of what people think now the election is over.
http://ozdemocracy.com/?p=8
sorry ‘Women Key to Election’
Sorry Mad Professor, hadn’t read your entry at 163. Two devious minds at work.
Your predictions in QLD were worse than hopeless.
How’s that for feedback?
Adam,
Do you have an idea as to how many postal votes are expected in Bennelong?
4AM for me George (thats 5AM your time). You know where I was…History being made!
#183 – only 2 devious minds? I wouldn’t be surprised if hacks from both sides trawl this site for ideas!
ShowsOn @ 184
I already said I eat my own words like I said I would. There is such a think as a sore winner.
Don’t you love how Costello still think what he thinks matters:
Hands Off Futures Fund
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22818280-29277,00.html
Adam 173 – I totally agree with your views on the AWB crime. I just don’t think Rudd will go in that direction. I mentioned here some weeks ago that I personally have reasonable proof (from my previous work connections to a government agency) that Howard broke the law in regard to certain intelligence activities in Australia. Others know about this too but there won’t be any inquiry. If I stuck my head up, I’d be sent off to the gulag.
Adam – Why would the CFMEU be on thin ice? Because their left wing? If you go by that mantra then you would have to add the AMWU and CPSU no?
I raise this here because the earlier thread was closed, but I think K Jin’s comments about his view of Greens policy needs addressing.
K Jin suggests , at # 561 in the previous thread when suggesting that “The Greens are bad for Trees” that: “Greens are bad for trees because: They stop back burning during the winter and so in the summer, the bonfire of the bush is all the bigger.
Now, I’m no expert on the policies of all parties on this matter, but I AM aware that the Green’s policy on Biological Diversity includes the goal of:
“effective habitat management, including ecologically appropriate use of fire.“
It also , in its policy on Natural resource management states that:
“The Australian Greens believe that:
Australia’s natural resources must be managed in accordance with the principles of intergenerational equity, biodiversity conservation and respect for the traditional ownership of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.”
I’ve worked with Aboriginal groups in Australia for more than 30 years, and I’ve seen traditional Aboriginal fire management practices in action in remote parts of Australia. I’ve yet to see anything in the policy of any other parties, I’m afraid, that recognises the importance of such things.
K-Jin, myths like your suggestions here are easy to start but often harder to stop. If you can show me where a Greens policy suggests that they are opposed to controlled burns in situations where they are necessary and appropriate, please feel free to point them out to me.
I’m more than happy to accept that there may be particular situations where they have opposed such things from time to time, and more than happy to accept that they may well have “got such things wrong” on occasion too.
But it seems to me that in their policies they provide a recognition of the importance of environmental burns that you won’t actually find in those of other political organisations here. As I said, please point me to some concrete, documented, examples if I am wrong about this.
Cheers
Rod
Vale Matt Price
160 Flash
Here it is:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22781986-29277,00.html
He pretty much telegraphs what he was going to do.
O/T, but while looking at the AEC’s 2PP by Division page (http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseTppByDivision-13745-NAT.htm), I couldn’t help noticing the significant (15-20%) drop in voter turnout in many electorates, even where all polling places have returned results. Not being familiar with this stuff, I have to ask: is this actually indicative of a reduced turnout, or does it just mean they’re waiting for postal votes or somesuch?
Emphasis on the word “winner”.
Stephen it would certainly be interesting to know whether any one particular demographic aided Rudd’s election but I don’t think we can really know. What we do know is polling showed a weaker swing to Labor among women. Whether this is accurate or not I don’t know. Surprisingly most polling I’ve shown suggest women are more likely to vote for conservative parties.
Landeryou couldn’t possibly be serious about Kevin Andrews?
Costello has no clever plan to regain the leadership later on. He will quit fairly soon, probably after the first session of parliament. With big bucks jobs in the offing, he won’t be sitting on any backbench for too long. Good riddance.
197
Which polling are you using? I would like to have a look.
OK, Turnbull expected, Nelson I could understand, Hockey, yeh OK, but Andrews?
For the love of God, Allah, Buddha and anything else considered holy….
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“There is an unwritten agreement (I wouldn’t say a convention) between political parties not to hold serious inquiries into the activities of a previous government.”
Howard held inquiries into Keatings piggeries and labors Centennial House, both were bullsh*t muckraking inquiries desigend to embaress labor that did not find anything.
But as others have said Rudd said it is about the future and he was elected to fix the stuff ups and damage the libs have done to the Australian economy and society.
There won’t be any inquiries, the’yd be a huge waste of money, a Royal Commission costs upwards of $100 million, and time and just confirm what everyone already knows.
Interesting that Costello mentioned he’d now spend time deciding on a career outside of politics.
Wouldn’t the honourable thing to do be to resign immediately?
I’m not sure I like having our funds spent on subsidising Costello’s job search for up to 3 years.
Interesting Grog, thanks.
I think the next opposition leader COULD become the next PM for the following simple reason:
Sadly, the indications are reasonably strong that the economy could tank in the upcoming term through no fault of Labor. The US is on the brink on recession. One US investment bank said the US housing market right now is in its worst state since the Great Depression. And Australia has now recorded 17 consecutive years of expansion so statistically, some kind of crunch is on.
So Labor could get thumped, just as Whitlam did, with dire economic circumstances beyond its control – and pay the toll.
The best hope is that China keeps expanding at current levels without a hitch.
The Libs are pretty stupid, but Andrews as leader? don’t think so.
No 198
Costello was an excellent Treasuer Alex McDonnel. You talk about us living in the past, but if you’re going to keep mentioning Keating, you’re no better.
GP – when did I mention keating?
Re: the Lib base, I thought it was somehow apt that Howard couldn’t get through his concession speech for all the yobbo shouting of “Go Johhny”. That’s the current Lib base right there. Bay 13.
My thoughts on Turnbull (from Ozforums):
I think putting Turnbull as Liberal leader has the prospect of actually destroying the Liberal Party forever.
If you look at what is actually going on in the grass-roots branches in NSW – think the Kelly Gang in Lindsay, think the back-stabbing of Brogden, think the religious far-right – Turnbull is so completely out of step with these people that I cannot imagine a less suited leader for them.
He is moderate, he is a Republican, he was in the ALP, he is “soft” on social issues (gay rights), he is pro-Kyoto. If he is made leader there is the prospect of trench-warfare and a break between leadership and base.
Interesting times.
Having always looked forward to Matt’s articles, I felt so so sad to hear of his passing away. It was hard not to like him even though I did not know him personnally. My thoughts are with his family!!
Who will be the first to get stuck into Costello in the first sitting and how many minutes in?
Boerwar @29 Thanks
Johnny B Gon @58 and ruawake @71
“Nelson is an opportunist – AMA president who sold his soul to be in Govt.”
When he was AMA president he took it to the left after the rule of Bruce Sheppard. I remember at the time the commentary being about his support of Aboriginal Health, Gay Rights and the fact that he had an earring (shock horror!).
In politics there is always the balance of having to support some things you don’t like to get the things that are important to you up. Deciding which battles to fight is always difficult. From what has been said of the Howard years, there didn’t seem to be a lot of “melting pot of ideas” but rather a single rodent’s iron fist. So Nelson maybe an opportunist, or more kindly, he may have naively thought he could influence policy from within. With the Iron fist gone, him (and probably others, e.g. Petro Georgio) may pull the party back from the Brotherhood.
I suppose at the end of the day, like Rudd I’m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to see the best in most people – they were all working in different ways under the Howard dictatorship. Now the rat poison has been applied, I’m hoping Rudd will soften some of his policies and the wets of the Liberal party will find their voice.
I realise I maybe living with the fairies, hoping for the best in people, but it gets me through the day.
Oh dear. Still peddling the ‘Costello was an excellent treasurer’ myth. He will go down in history as the laziest treasurer since Howard. His one great achievement – giving us a new tax. Learn something about economics before making a judgment on Cossie’s skill as a finance man.
Flash @ 203
I main problem with China is that its big export is cheap manufactured products to places like the US. China could be in for a slow down if the US falls.
I’m not so pessimistic Flash.
But.
The next opposition leader could be the next PM, if s/he is good enough to stick around till at least 2013. (and probably 2016)
Generic Person Says:
“Costello was an excellent Treasuer Alex McDonnel. You talk about us living in the past, but if you’re going to keep mentioning Keating, you’re no better.”
Costello didn’t have the balls to take over the leadership when he could have. He coasted along as treasurer (the “laziest” ever?). He lost the election (that’s right, remember the “team”) and now he’s resigned and doesn’t wanna play any more. He’s a loser and history will remember him as the no-action treasurer.
GP – Costello was a suburban lawyer with no knowledge of economics. He basically just read out the documents provided by all the Economics PhD s in Treasury. He paid off government debt by selling the family silver like Telstra. Then along comes China with buckets of money for our minerals. Blind Freddie could have run the economy well over the past five years. Costello was a gutless, bully boy fraud.
Condolences to Matt Price’s family and friends. Far too young to go.
That much is true I admit. Opposition Leader after a defeat is not a fun job. But in Costello’s case it fits in with past behaviour. He presented in this campaign as part of ‘the team’ (we can argue whether this was willingly or grudgingly), but if they had won, presumably he would have been happy to accept the prime ministership.
Costello failed to take any opportunity to challenge, even when he had the numbers (after APEC, for example). The fact remains that he does not have, and never has had, the requisite ‘killer instinct’. He was happy to have it handed to him but some (OK, a lot) of thankless flogging is suddenly below him.
Whatever you think of that, the fact is that his departure has suddenly left the Libs spectacularly lacking in top-level ‘talent’, or at least anyone who has cred with the electorate at large. As Possum observed over on his site, the disloyalty is plain for all to see. And one presumes that cuts both ways.
Man of steel.
Rust in peace.
Yes, so sad about Matt Price. Rest in peace. I am glad he had the little amount of time/warning he did to say his good byes and make his peace. We are the poorer to his passing.
BV,
I have to disagree with you. The Liberal base still remains the North-Shore/Eastern Suburbs set – moderate conservatives, who are economically conservative but socially progressive. This is why the blue-ribbon Liberal seats are Bradfield and Higgins – they personify this mindset perfectly.
The problem with the Libs is that their membership base (not their voting base) is ultra-conservative in NSW. They are the disgusting runts who think that playing sexual or racial politics is a perfectly acceptable tactic to win seats or preselection – people like Alex Hawke, Michael Towke, David Clarke and Jackie Kelly.
Malcolm Turnbull (and Brendan Nelson and Joe Hockey) all come from the traditional Liberal base. The only chance that the traditional Libs in NSW have a chance of wresting power from the Uglies is if one of the above three become leader of the Federal party and impose their will on the State party. Otherwise, you’re likely to see more incidents like what happened to John Brogden…
Should Costello resign, I will fully support him. It gives him a chance to start a new life. There is no need to imprison him for the next three years. It will also give the Liberal a chance to inject someone new from Higgins. In this way someone would be making a positive contribution in Parliament and at the same time would be better serving Higgins. Costello in the meantime would flourish outside Parliament. This makes so much of sense to me – everyone wins. I should say I am a Labor supporter!
There is one iron rule about new governments – the predictions of what they will be like almost always turn out to be untrue, that’s why new leadership is exciting!
Keating did more in his first 12 months than Costello did in 11.5 years.
Did Costello actually ever have an original policy idea? He says the future fund was his idea, but why do we need to lock away a few billion only to cream off the interest every year? Why not just pay for things when you want to do something, or give it back by lowering taxes?
The future funds are really just something to talk about, they aren’t actually good policy.
Keating was right on Costello – he spent 11 years swinging in a hammock.
He will be largely forgotten; remembered only as a political warning for those young ambitious politicians who think everything will get handed to them.
True, not many people thought Hawke and Keating would be as successful as they turned out to be when elected in 1983. No one knew they would create the modern Australian economy in the way they did.
Like most of the people at my ALP/Green election party last night, I was disappointed in Rudd’s speech — bureaucratic, heavily loaded with cliches and formulaic phrases, lacking fire. But today when responding to questions he was lively and engaging. I hope we see more of this Rudd.
On Julie Bishop, I can’t understand why Glen et al think she would be good in leadership positions. She’s of limited intelligence, narrow and rigid in her thinking (believe me). OK, she looks ‘well groomed’, but that’s not going to get her far. She’s more or less a younger version of Bronwyn.
Can I just say the De-Anne Kelly’s loss is one of the sweetest.
(at least she won’t have to worry about resigning over the RPP rorts lol)
The other rule is the calumny and evil of the old government must be exposed by the incoming government, shock horror budget black holes discovered in 1983 and 1996 that no one knew about! The horror, Right now a standard narrative is being discussed about the old government which will probably be debuted at the first sitting of parliament in feb 2008 – my tip 12 years of indolence in using good times to prepare australia for the future.
hahahahhh amazing! BetFair still offers bet on Bennelong
McKew $1.02 / Howard $15
Howard still has hope
Even though it was expected, I imagine he would’ve been feeling a bit of shock.
I actually really liked the part when he said we have to build a new consensus, and end the division based on union & business, federal & state, environment & economic growth. Of course that’s very Third Way Blair / Clinton talk, but it is true.
I can’t believe we just went through an election campaign when one side wanted to talk constantly about unions and interest rates. My early prediction for 2010 is that unions won’t be an issue at all.
Kennett was on tv tonight saying Costello was ditching the Libs when they needed him the most.
But it ’s the truth Edward.
George it may happen that there could be another crack at Higgins in a by-election. I wouldn’t be surprise.
ESJ:
“my tip 12 years of indolence in using good times to prepare australia for the future.”
That’s your “tip”??? It should be the bleeding obvious!
The Higgins by-election will be quite soon.
Aussieguru01 Says:
“George it may happen that there could be another crack at Higgins in a by-election. I wouldn’t be surprise.”
I hope so mate.
I’m so glad someone else enjoyed this! The parliament will be improved immeasurably without her pretending Labor are communists.
This would be true. The Coalition pissed billions against the wall in the form of massively increased transfer payments – $90 billion in fact.
The future fund is a con – sell off income producing assets so they can be invested in – income producing shares.
Codswallop.
Fair go, Costello needed SOMETHING to talk about during all those question times.
What a disgusting effort by Costello!. No true intestinal fortitude. No feeling of responsibility to the party and crafting its recovery. Just what one would expect from a bully-boy.
does anybody know who the “father” or “mother” of the house will be?
De-Ann Kelly’s last words in parliament:
Mrs De-Anne Kelly—Mr Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I understand the Leader of the Opposition supports this, but he is not in the House. He is never here.
Interjection
The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Hon. IR Causley)—There is no point of order. That was a frivolous point of order.
lol well done. On your way.
I recall a while back that De Anne Kelly was publicly criticising veterans – not long after she was made junior minister for Defence. She failed at that and was dumped.
I predict that, as a result of the Coalition scare campaign at this election, unions will enjoy something of a minor resurgence – they will be kind of trendy, intrigueing, macho in a good way.
3/4 down the page
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
Edward StJohn Says:
“does anybody know who the “father” or “mother” of the house will be?”
ESJ, that’s one bit of our democracy I’d rather they dispensed with.
Quess what guys I have just placed a $500 bet on the Australian Labor Party to win the next election,
The ALP’s odds are currently at $1.16 to ANY OTHER PARTY at $4.60 at Centrebet
And if the next election campaign is anything to go by what has happened in the past 6 weeks
I can hardly wait
I agree to some extent that Costello lacked the conviction to challenge for the leadership when he had the opportunity. But even if he had challenged at APEC, I doubt whether it would have made much difference, especially with Rudd so well established. Any change was best made in 2006, not a nanosecond before the election.
As for thankless flogging being below him, well I think it is below him. He’s been a successful Treasurer for more than a decade and is now thrust into the political wilderness for a minimum of three years. A man his age can achieve more in the commerical world and retain a family life. I don’t think I can blame him, as much as it is a disappointing loss to the party leadership-wise.
The liberals do have talent on the front bench. It is a shame, however, that Mal Brough was defeated in his seat. While people may disagree with the intervention, Brough was a talented politician and he came across as reasonably honest and moderate. Internal sources are very much aggrieved by the loss, as they considered him leadership material.
As for top-level talent, there is no doubt that Turnbull is talented. He has had real world experience and I think he will do well as leader, if elected.Yes, he is politically inexperienced, but I doubt Downer, Nelson or Abbott will be as marketable.
My choice for leadership team Malcolm Turnbull & Julie Bishop with Senate leader Marie Payne’s (NSW)
In writing that the Liberal Party needs to reform its membership base which appears to be dominated by two groups.
The older members longing for Menzies
The younger ones tend to be negative and nasty
The Liberal Party needs to return to its roots, may I suggest its time for a proper membership drive, currant membership is less than 10,000 now in the UK the Conservatives have a membership base of around 300,000.
Based on the Australian population the Liberal Party should have a membership of around 100,000 but this will mean the Liberal Party will need to get in touch with the 20 and 30 somethings.
To show my point at the height of Menzies the Kooyong young Liberal branch had more members than the whole of the currant Young Liberals.
Yes its true that people are busier today, but that is an excuse run by both Parties, the people see our Parties for what they are.
The Liberal Party has become a miserable nasty and extreme outfit that hasn’t moved with the times and while the ALP has its faults at least its a more open and diverse Party
Henceforth I will no longer refer to Julia Gillard as Medicare Gold, henceforth it will be Oskar Mk2.
Nelson was in Young Labor (or whatever it was called then) when he was a student at Flinders Uni. He was not liked & by all reports was a d*****d
Tiptoe probably is not thinking about two elections. He is probably hardly able to think at all. Very difficult to have all that power withdrawn. His boss ratted on him. His mates did not consult him at APEC time. He got to thrash the hapless, but he never found his ticker. when it might have counted. Hardly anybody out there liked Tiptoe. After the election, he didn’t talk to Ratty and Dolly, nor they with him, so they talked him up. Then he announced his intention to tiptoe quietly to the political sunset. No wonder his face was so full of pain during his talk on election night.
Third rule of post elections:
Journalists must write articles about whats wrong with the party that lost.
Evening fellow bludgers
ESJ is right. The way out of opportunistic election promises is the well worn line: “we didn’t know how bad it was”. I expect at least two Royal commissions – AWB and immigration and several other relevations.
I note Alan Ramsay’s column in yesterday’s Herald in which he referred to the 300 big recycling bins in the basement of Parliament House on Friday. You can bet Peter Shergold and the other mandarins will be shredding everything including the yellow pages right now. They’ll still find enough to get the libs chewing at their own guts for the next two or three years.
It’s the political equivalent of Balmain folk dancing. You knock them down then you make sure they can’t get up.
Can’t wait.
No 224
Future funds are good policy. Almost all economists I heard that commented on the elections said that with existing inflationary pressures, governments should be saving more.
Is it true that Matt Price has passed away?
Sadly Yes
Dogs, yes.
Regarding Andrews, I understand that parties tend not to investigate their predecessors but there is surely still risk here. Haneef’s case is still in the courts and will come back to bite him in the new year. There will be no reason for Labor to protect him, so soem quite embarrassing information could come to light without the powers of office and Keelty to protect Andrews. A high risk IMO.
Whoever the Libeals pick as leader it would be amazing if Labor lost in one term. As I said last night Glen you shoudl get Brough back into parliament, and I can’t remember the last time Slipper or Somylay did anything useful. It is true the demographics of those electorates are changing, but that is the reality of the world, and if the Libs are to have any hope, they must find candidates who can survive in that environment.
Glen, please understand I have no love of the current Liberal party but this is meant constructively. I grew up in Queensland and saw what a weak opposition does to governments and ultimately democracy. The Liberals need to rebuild, and can’t afford to carry deadwood in safe seats where future leaders could develop. If you guys realy want to be brave, you shoudl merge teh Nationals or reinvent them too, as they are no longer even potent in country areas, as Dawson and Leichardt demonstrated.
Happily Labor took some hard decisions before the election and now has some good new blood and a solid leadership team. Good for them.
my 2 cents
Damien J – 255 Pls read my 161 – No royal commissions
Fourth and final rule : one of the anticipated stars of the new team turns out to be a dud, my new team pick, step forward “Peter Garrett”.
Gee Hansard is fun.
This is from Jackie Kelly’s valedictory speech:
http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au/piweb/view_document.aspx?id=2765257&table=HANSARDR
I owe John [Howard] a lot and wish him every success in the future and hope he sees my 12 years of unexpected service as repayment. I apologise for not being with John in the trenches for this one, but Gary [Clark] is thrilled that he finally rates higher in my priorities than the Prime Minister.
I think Rudd can make an exception with regard to a full inquiry into the Haneef case – because it IS about the future. It is about the proper application of terrorism laws, and that is very much about tomorrow’s challenges.
Grog,
If Hansard gives u a buzz u need to get out more, cant you got out and demand a closed shop or close down a business somewhere?
ESJ not necessarily – if he’s given Arts he’ll be fine. (At least the ALP put out an Arts policy!)
One more thing, on Lindsey I have no idea what the truth is, but I refuse to believe that the candidate didn’t know what her husband, her former bosses’ husband and various campaign team members were doing. Plus the leaflets didn’t print themselves. The damage is done now anyway. The sooner they all admit the truth and apologise the sooner the Libs can move on. Does anyone know what the relevant penalties are?
Meant in jest Grog, nah transplants dont work Grog (at least in ALP politics).
And unlike the coalition, Labor put out a defence policy.
Good evening fellow bloggers, this is my first post since the voting started.
I had to dash down to Sydney this morning.
The result was better than I had predicted for Kevin Rudd. I could only find 85 seats for his team. The two party preferred was spot on.
It’s an amazing outcome.
I’m not actually surprised that John Howard has lost his seat. When the analysis is done it will be found that the crucial votes were in the Chinese and Korean communities.
We are now to have a swag of by-elections. It will anger the voters and there are likely to be big swings in those seats.
If Alexander Downer does a runner that seat may go to Labor.
Obviously Malcolm Turnbull will want to have a go at being PM. How long is he prepared to wait? As he has now fulfilled most of his other ambitions he may be prepared to wait nine years.
He might not get it this time but really who else could match him?
I couldn’t imagine Andrew Robb matching Kevin Rudd. He will be at best an interim leader of the Opposition if he gets it.
Unless the world economy goes belly up Kevin Rudd will be there for a long time.
Heard that Chijhof (sp?) has split with her husband she is so peeved. Anyone know whether this is true?
Flash – I agree there probably will be an inquiry into Haneef. Rudd will want to pull ASIO and the Fed cops into line.
I find it surprising that people are condemning Costello for quitting (leadership roles) today.
Seems to me that the bloke’s done his best for 17 years in Parliament and 11 years as Treasurer, and if he now thinks it’s in his best interests to have three years on the back bench and then get out – why is that a problem? And, I might add, the timing of his announcement was perfectly ok as well.
EdStJ
I may have missed it earlier but you promised to reveal your identity today. Was this a core promise?
Swing Lowe – that’s the point. I Turnbull becomes leader, to appeal to the traditional voter base, the current right-wing membership base may possibly go nuts and try to cut him down and push their own kind.
Richard Jones the last line in your post is the important part, will your biofuels shares survive a downturn? Go for recession proof stocks – newspapers, gambling etc in my view
I think the father of the House is Phillip Ruddock!
Very sorry to here Matt has gone ,condolences to his family and friends ,did not always agree with him ,his journalism was always entertaining and thoghtful,RIP.
MNC – only if the Liberals won, not non-core, non-operative.
Chris Curtis, lets assume Ruddock (class of 74) leaves who is next? Must be someone from the class of 83 (if any are left?)
Boerwar
It (Chojhof’s split) has been reported but that is why I am sceptical. Very convenient timing and if your spouse was that much of a bigot and you weren’t, you would think you would know after a few years of marriage. Besides, if Kelly meant her “joke” explanation then her boss was a bigot too, and why would you put up with that if you weren’t. Doesn’t add up IMO.
I see your point, but over the last two months we have been told repeatedly that Costello will be the next P.M. of the country after Howard. Only now do we find out that his heart wasn’t really in it, and he can’t wait to get the hell out of parliament.
192 Rod. K Jin has been banned.
Boerwar – I read about the so called ’split’ between Chijoff and her husband this morning. She announced it yesterday morning – I think it was a stunt to try to save her arse in the election. I’ll bet they are ‘reconciled’ soon.
I trust The Australian will publish a retrospective of Matt Price’s best columns (and there were many) with all the proceeds to go to his family.
Who else will bail out or head for the bilges? Any guesses? Can’t believe that it will only be Tiptoe.
lol ESJ. yes I need to get out more.
I know Garrett is not a politician. But I live in hope. Seriously doubt he’ll be given Environment.
Indigenous Affiars (his other big love) is also probably too hot right now as well. But then no one would doubt his passion for it.
But my tip is Arts and Heritage. (which means the Dept of Communications, IT and the Arts will probably split up (it also has sport in it).
WOnder what they’ll call the Dept of Emplyoment and Workplace Relations?
I’m betting signwriters will be busy in Canberra for the next month or so.
No 271
I wouldn’t be surprised if Chijoff is angered. Though, even I expected Lindsay to go before the scandal broke cover.
Chris B, why was K Jin banned?
Steveo @ 248
That’s crazy mate, 1.16 is a 16% return over three years.. you would make more putting the money in an ING account with no risk and your money at call!
271 – she was last seen wearing no wedding ring, and when asked, said she didn’t know where he was, and hadn’t spoken to him.
Ha!
Lindsay was long gone before the scandal. I have no idea why they even bothered.
ESJ,
I don’t know who’s next as the FotH, and I don’t want to trawl through bios. to find out. I’m not even certain re PR.
No 292
You could say that for any seat, but the aim is not to make it a safe Labor seat.
Just a quick point, not related to anything before it…
I don’t get the Brough love-in.
I haven’t followed him closely, but he look sand sounds like an A class tool to me.
I don’t know what the hell is going on with the NT intervention – the motives stated don’t match the action for mine, the money never stacked up and there’s a general stench about it, not the least because it happened a few months before an election loss it seems everyone (who counted) in government knew was coming.
Brough is either the fall-guy or the mastermind – an idiot or nasty piece of work.
Hockey is also in one of these categories; take your pick.
Flash, I’ve spent the arvo reading some of Price’s columns and blogs on the Oz’s website. Just great stuff.
Ruddock is the other member of the class of 74 (with Howard)
Tend to agree re Steveo @ 248
Even if you just wait for the first decent Labor scandal to break, or for Turnbull’s star to rise a little, the odds on Labor would improve considerably from $1.16. Let’s face it – Labor was never, to my knowledge, as short as that during this campaign.
Also sympathy to Matt Price; I hadn’t followed the story and that is quite tragic. Maybe it is only my perception but I can’t help reflecting that a lot of journalists seem to die young. Sympathy to all concerned.
The modern Liberal party is a means spirited, cynical, divisive bastard of an organisation.
Similar to our ex-Government and PM really.
Father of the Senate after 1 July 2008 will be Senator Ron Boswell, first elected in 1983.
Edward St John, many of my shares are hot rocks and they have a guaranteed future. Actually I’m going for gold in the main. Gold is rising towards $A1,000 an ounce. The Chinese currently hold very little (2%) and will want to swap their one and a half trillion dollars for other currencies and gold. The Indian economy is rising and they love their gold. South African production is down again. There are a couple of Australian companies which are vastly undervalued at present and will become even more undervalued as gold rises in Australian dollars. Gold in the long term is headed towards $US2,500 an ounce. Seems impossible? Just watch.
So when do we get to see Kevin McDonald’s dirt file on Rudd and Julia??
lol
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Rudd-pleased-WA-union-heavy-has-quit-ALP/2007/11/16/1194766944220.html
Tip got his name from Paul Keating
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/
costello-all-tip-no-iceberg/2007/03/05/1172943358207.html
Regarding Chinese exports to US & flow through effects. The Chinese have been investing a significant part of their massive surpluses in US Treasury Bonds. In the event of a decline in the US it would clearly be in their own interest to increase this pattern, thus making funds available for the usual practice of US governments (with support from interdependent countries including China) bailing out the private sector,as has already happened to a modest degree in both the US & UK. A negotiated adjustment of relative exchange rates between the US$ & the Chinese currency (as occurred between the US & Japan in the early 1980s). This would force up US interest rates – hurting the poorest & some businesses, but would simultaneously attract funds into the US which would result in a managed crisis as per the 1982 debt crisis in Latin America & a serious of similar bail outs in Mexico in the 1990s. This would hurt the world economy, especially the poorest countries, but would be likely to sustain a reasonable level of growth in China. The so-called tsunami would be grossly exaggerated. The free-market is a myth. Learn some basic political economy before making ridiculous claims about treasurers’ competence levels.
295,Totally agree ,both lard heads with no substance,Hockey feeilng sorry for his staff,were they on AWA’S ,as if he really cares,Brough should be a race caller.
“The Liberal Party needs to return to its roots…”
This would be my ideal situation/fantasy:
After repeated attempts to unite the moderates and extremists, and after another crushing defeat in 2010, the Liberal Party becomes completely unelectable, both federally and at state level. The Liberal Party then begins a rapid descent into minority party status as it becomes confined to the hard Right, either along with Family First or usurping Family First. The moderates – Doctor’s wives, etc. – shift to the Greens. And so begins the rise of the Greens as Australia’s second major party… the Liberal Party consigned to the fringes of Australian politics.
To me, this is 21st century stuff.
why would the Libs expose Turnbull to the task of eliminating the uglies?
it is suicide. the uglies will crush him.
the Libs need Turnbull in 4 years time.
better to let an expendable nuff nuff like Robb do all the hard yards.He’ll do what the Party needs and then be dumped one way or the other.
i don’t see another option for them.
if they put Turnbull in now, the uglies will fight and Labor will giggle.
On broken promises etc,
Rudd will be able to get away with a lot and still cruise back in (probably with an increased seat majority) in three years time.
The one thing he won’t get away with is if the economy stuffs up. If that happens, the electoral retribution will be brutal, as long as the Libs look credible.
I would have thought Turnbull just has to be leader, if they’re fair dinkum. He’s the only one with the profile and the ability to distance himself from Howard on issues like climate change, Iraq and education.
Nelson – no charisma whatsoever.
Bishop – seems too lightweight.
Robb – too obscure and too much of a JWH man.
Abbott – nothing needs to be said.
OK, who’s done the biggest political dummy spit in Federal politics in the last few years? Costello or Latham?
Maybe they should go on telly together and badmouth their respective parties.
It would get a very wide audience!
Grog,
Joe, not Kevin. Kevin is Kevin Reynolds.
If 7 want to spice up there coverage in 2010 they should call that pair.
311 Chris lol I always get the two of them confused!
Bill and Ben on the WA union movement.
wpc @ 36: while the material distributed in lindsay, per se, wasn’t racist, their intention in distributing it definitely WAS, appealing to, what they perceived as being, the latent racism of the good burghers of lindsay.
it backfired spectacularly of course not least of all because they got caught in the act but also because the people whom they imagined were going to respond in this wave of anti-muslim (and hence anti-labor) sentiment seemed in the main, when interviewed on the msm , not to be racist at all. in fact, most of them said they were appalled and many said they were changing their vote to back the labor man.
it’s a delicious irony i think that racism has come back to smack john howard in the kisser, not only in lindsay but also in his own seat. even if the jackie kelly thing hadn’t happened i get a feeling that because bennelong has now got so many asian constituents they became a critical group whose support he absolutely needed to win. many of these people remember his statements in the 80s about asian immigration and many, i’m sure, must have really delighted in punishing him now for what he said openly back then and all his racist antics since.
howard has been real and truly hoisted on his own petard ,.. silly bitch
262 Blogs moved on a bit but… I think you re underselling Garrett. He is one of the exciting new(ish) faces of new Labor and epitomises the anti-political narrative espoused by The Piping Shrike. Rudd explicitly commented about Garrett’s so called gaffe that “things are bad when you can’t have a joke anymore” which to me is a vote of confidence.
My bet is that Garrett will be environment minister and will enthusiastically sell the consensus message that transforms the growth vs environment arguments of the past. Also if the Greens want to be viable in the new regime they will have to be putting up costed business cases with KPI’s and defined outcomes to get look in.
Robb is a shocker,looks like he has been out with Ben Cousins.
Philip Ruddock is currently the longest-serving member of the House (1973). If he were to resign, and assuming Howard (1974) has been defeated, the longest-serving member would be Wilson Tuckey (1980). Senator John Watson (Lib, Tas) would be the longest-member of the Parliament (1977). His term will end on 30 June. The longest-serving Senator will then be Ron Boswell (1983). The longest-serving Labor member is Roger Price (1984), who will apparently become Speaker.
Richard Jones I would never have picked you for having the gold bug, you must have a very pessimistic view of the future of the economy. Have you read Jim Rodgers on commodities? Worth a read
Joint fathers of the house, Roger Price ALP and Alex Downer (1984)
Yes I forgot Tuckey.
Price as speaker, maybe Crean?
307 – Noocat
I think you just blew my mind. It has the ring of truth to it.
Saying things about Barry Cassidy that were not nice.
Noocat @ 307,
A scenario like this could play out. It would have unforeseen consequences for all, though, for example:
- there’d be an influx of people into the Labor party who currently support the Liberals, which would change the culture of the Labor Party
- there’d be an outflow from the Labor Party of people who are currently in the Left- they’d join the Greens and significantly change the culture of the Greens. The influence of green policies over the next 40-50 years will depend more on whether global warming is as bad as (or worse than) expected, than it will on party structures and names.
Thanks for the info Chris @ 282
I will accordingly stop wasting my breath!
Cheers
Rod
Not only not nice… as if he’d spent time on another planet or ingested large quantities of cocaine.
Labor could of course amend the laws so that there is a ten year limit on records from the Howard era which can be revealed. We could have a never ending feast of the skullduggery of the past twelve years on slow drip feed beginning from 1996. March 1996 records could be revealed first and every month another month’s worth of the Howard years can be released. It would be a fun read. Just call it the Myth busting project.
Wrong on Garrett, I’m afraid. He will be punished big time. Rudd may have tried to spin it but they are all furious that he could be so profoundly dumb – and this during an incredibly disciplined, well managed campaign. That will be remembered for a very long time.
ESJ @ 318, isn’t Ruddock now father of the House. (He got in in 1974 I think). Or have I missed his retirement announcement today?
Where’s Abbot?
#314
I’m surprised there wasn’t a larger swing against Kevin Andrews
Well Ruddock must be up there with the candidates for by-elections.
For mine the Libs should even look at transplanting Brough to Berowra. The ALP certainly had a similar contingency plan for Beazley to Greenway in 1996 which was talked about.
Two comments:
1. Shocked about Matt Price. Only the good die young. And he was really good.
2. Re AWB and Downer. Don’t need another enquiry. Just speed up the prosecutions, that have been on hold by the former govenrment (feels nice to say that!). I think the defence lawyers will have some very interesting information that we haven’t been able to hear, yet.
To clarify K Jin was banned for saying things about Barry Cassidy that were not nice and not true.
Is Robb the straw man for Turnbull? I can’t see Turnbull capturing the hearts and minds of the conservative homeland. I also can’t see why Turnbull wants this now. It is a poisoned chalice. My tip is that the libs will implode and the wets and moderates will coalesce around a different brand within five years. The loony far right will be in the wilderness, where it needs to be.
Dyno / Noocat -
The Labor party in its current incarnation is sufficiently centre-right (oh god that’s going to get me into trouble) as to present a welcome opportunity for some Liberal voters, particularly if the Libs get sucked into a “race to the bottom” with Family First.
The question then becomes: will these oh-so-mythical “Doctor’s Wives” feel at home in the Australian Greens party? My gut is they wouldn’t feel entirely at home in the party of 2007. The Greens are probably going to change more in the next 3 years than Labor will – and 2010 should show us if a migration is on…
Any thoughts on the Overington slap? Will The Oz do anything?
Maybe she’ll be Turnbull’s press officer? lol
Grog, I used to watch Bill and Ben and the unforgetable Weeeeeed 50 years ago. KR and JM do look alike, to say the least.
Andrew Robb is not leadership material. I have never been a fan of Paul Keating, but at leasrt he could put some passion into his words.
I’ve been trying to get through to my Lib staffer mate this morning, but no answer. Will keep trying though. The saga has not yet ended.
Tip is a disgrace. I have no reason to believe that Kevin will crash and burn, but the world economy isn’t getting any better and it could be that the Rudd Labor Government finds itself facing the sort of external pressures that Whitlam felt.
I’m confident that Rudd and his team will face these down far more successfully than Whitlam, but if we ever needed a confirmation that the Libs rang a scare campaign against Labor’s handling of the economy, it is Tip’s announced departure.
This is a man who on Saturday effectively told us that only he could stop Australia from becoming an Antipodean Weimar Republic, and on Sunday effectively said that it didn’t matter, and that he was off to make some money. No hanging around for 3 years doing the hard yards for him. Oh yes, Labor and its union thug mates will wreck the economy and wreck it in one term, but I can’t wait that long (and when, pray tell, did he think Howard was going to hand over?)
What a schmuck.
Still, he is who is he. One thing I have picked up from my staffer mate over the years is that Costello’s failure to challenge Howard was not simply gutlessness. He never had the numbers. Indeed, it was joked a couple of years ago that Petro Georgiou had a bigger grouping of hardcore serious support. He simply was not liked, whatever revisionist history his father-in-law Peter Coleman might like to spout. But gutlessness and laziness also had its place.
Still, it would be hypocritical of me not to want him to go, and go soon. His speech on Saturday night was probably the best he’s ever given, and it was still mediocre, especially when compared to Turnbull’s. Even if Labor implodes over the next few years (which I doubt), Costello must have known that there was still a hard core of Howardites in the party who resented Costello’s undermining over the years (as my mate pointed out). Despite the anointment (shades of Fraser and Peacock), life wouldn’t have been easy.
Talk about an unsafe and unreliable pair of hands. Good riddance.
329 Darryl Yes I thought Kevin Andrews would have a big swing against him.
I actually think we’ll get a good early view on Rudd very quickly – how will he treat Garrett?
If Garrett gets punished, that probably means Rudd will be (a) very focussed on winning at all costs in 2010 and (b) not all that interested in solving our real problems (surely Garrett’s the kind of person we need in an important job?).
I hope he doesn’t get punished.
No 319
David Hawker will be missed.
Ruddock has been father of the house for some time, he was elected in 73 in a byelection.
Of course Rudd will punish Garrett. Risk minimisation is one of Rudd’s guiding principles. Doesn’t mean Rudd can’t take Garrett’s counsel behind the scenes. If Garrett behaves himself, expect him in a minor ministry mid-term of perhaps after the next election.
Garrett is getting Arts. He’s been acting as the Minister-in-Waiting for Arts for the past several months…
337,Costello is and will always be a gug with no heart.
Kevin Rudd will be focused on winning in 2010 and 2013 and 2016…..
Yes Voter Boy – Costello is so worried about the financial tsunami comming that he wants to get a job in the sector.
And btw Voter Boy. Given the result, I have to say your posts from you Lib mate have proven to be right on the money.
Hhahahahahha whatever.
You’re kidding right GP? It’s generally accepted Hawker is the worst of the Howard speakers.
VBOW,
Costello’s entitled to make a decision for his own life that’s in the best interests of him and his family. He lost (in effect), so he’s decided to do something else.
How that makes him a “disgrace” is completely beyond my comprehension.
Whoever the libs put in as leader, HAS to be someone they can do without into the future, and who will probably retire before the next election.
They need to let things settle down, and get some kind of agenda formed before they put anyone with real prospects in the chair.
I reckon Abbot or Downer for those reasons, maybe Julie Bishop as deputy to balance off Julia G, if Bishop can hack the tokenism of it.
I think the libs are going to have major issues with gender balance going forward as their women are not the best performers, while the ALP has a whole crop of experienced women who have learned how in opposition. They have Gillard and Wong as operators, Roxon and Plibersek did well in the campaign and will define themselves in the next couple of years. And, St Max of Bennelong for heart.
Don’t think she will be a minister 1st term,( i think she’s too smart for that) but for slaying the dragon in its lair, she is on the road to icon status. Her inaugural speech in parliament will be one of the most awaited events for poly tragics i think.
But all that said, i really hope the libs can get their act together. It is not good for the country to have a weak opposition, and that they are so weak and divided is Howards fault. As always, he put his own wants and needs before his party or the country. I hope Rudd has learnt from that and if he lasts that long will leave the ALP in good shape when he goes.
Dyno, I agree. But on second thought, such a reconfiguration of the main parties might also coincide with the end of the old Left vs. Right continuum, ominously heralded by Rudd in his acceptance speech when he talked about the end of old divisions of environment vs. growth, public vs. private, employers vs. employees. A new way of defining the positioning of political parties could take place, whatever that might be.
OK how many members of parliament will not be eligible for Latham pensions ? 1/3?
Do the superannuation rules mean returning members like Belinda Neal and Sharryn from Hasluck do get pensions?
348 Lose the election please. You’ve got to remember the Liberals don’t have very high standards.
309 Dyno,
Even if the world economy goes belly up Labor will point the finger at Howard and Costello’s incompetent management of the windfall generated by the mining boom. Libs are out for at least 2 terms.
Re post 271/292 Does any one really believe that neither lady knew?
I suspect that they actively involved!
Yes imacca I think Kevin will commence by abolishing WorkChoices on Day 5, declaring a national Labor front forcibly combining AACI and the ACTU on Day 6 and rest on the seventh day.
David Hawker will be missed.
By who?
No 348
I don’t know where you get the “generally accepted” moniker, but Hawker was an excellent speaker, especially in his constant expulsion of ALP members.
David Hawker (1983) would be the next long serving Liberal after Wilson Tuckey.
I suspect there will be no members elected in the 80’s by 2010.
Lose the election please. I must say you do sound more like an ALP supporter now that we have won.
ESJ are you writing from Vorkuta? Didn’t know they had broadband out there.
Boerwar,
From my bunker on the Kamchatka peninsula dining on frozen deer actually.
One of the better things to come out of the election apart from the defeat of Brough was the rejection of the Liberal candidate for Leichardt. A former journalist who has worked for senior Libs thought she was just going to take over a safe Liberal seat. Centrelink awaits.
Hawker has been a very weak Speaker, nearly as bad as Leo McLeay. He will be another earky departure I expect, especially since his fellow Western District drone Stewie McArthur has gone.
Did Costello actually say that he’s going to spend the whole of this term on the backbench before getting a job in the private sector? I find that hard to believe. I’m sure he would want to go now, and I’m equally sure the new leader will want him gone. In fact the new leader will want the whole Howard Old Gang. By-elections in Higgins, Berowra, Mayo, Mackellar, Menzies and Wannon should provide an opportunity to bring in some new talent.
Yeah, that REALLY helped the coalition win the election.
but Hawker was an excellent speaker, especially in his constant expulsion of ALP members
Well, he certainly served the partisan interests of the (former) government well.
Woohoo! Hate to brag but most of my predictions were correct.
I predicted Labor to win 30 seats, they won 23.
I predicted Labor to win Bennelong if Howard lost the election… this came true.
I predicted Malcolm Turnbull to win Wentworth easily and that some Labor voters in here were dreaming. Turnbull is NOT in a marginal seat, it’s a Lib Safe seat, it was only marginal last election due to King(ousted Lib member) running as in independent. King recieved 18% in that election with Malcolm recieving 42%…. this is WHY Turnbull actually increased his vote this election!
I also predicted Turnbull would probably be the next Lib leader… Costello is pathetic.
Ahhh now if only I put money down
I suspect there will not be byelections anywhere for lib held seats for a while esp
in Queensland. Mr Ruddock & Mr costello promised to stay the full terms as Mps
I think they will keep their word.
I suspect KR will be spending substantial time in WA during his first term.
the (former) government
Ooh, it feels good to be able to say that.
Mick, on what the ladies knew: I suspect that Jackie K knew. Did they meet in her hous? There was form on this sort of stuff. Business as usual, perhaps? Not asserting, not even alleging. After all, a criminal act? About Chijhof I am less certain. The latter is hardly an Anglo name and the lady may have paid a personal price for that in the past. Not sure.
ROFL!
The mosque down the road in my neighborhood is letting off fireworks.
Today is a great day for Australia Fair.
“349
Dyno Says:
November 25th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
VBOW,
Costello’s entitled to make a decision for his own life that’s in the best interests of him and his family. He lost (in effect), so he’s decided to do something else.
How that makes him a “disgrace” is completely beyond my comprehension.”
On Saturday he was pleading with Australian voters to ensure he would spend at least another three years cheating his family of quality time with dad.
On Saturday it was vitally important that experienced people were kept at the helm to secure Australia’s prosperity.
On Sunday it was all out of the window once the immensity of the task ahead became apparent.
He is a disgrace, a coward, a sloth, and a blowhard.
And perhaps now his dead hand and that of his idiot chum Kroger can be released from the Victorian Liberal Party’s throat.
Who can provide a quote of Costello saying that he will waste the next three years of his life as a bored and frustrated opposition backbencher?
“The Greens are probably going to change more in the next 3 years than Labor will – and 2010 should show us if a migration is on…”
Marko, yep, could happen. I actually think that the biggest problem the Greens has is not their policy platform, although some refinement in this would be required, but in their marketing of it. They need to work harder to combat the old stereotypes of being loony Lefties or drugged-up hippies – they do not pose the kind of threat to the economy that many believe.
345 CC says -
(Kevin Rudd will be focused on winning in 2010 and 2013 and 2016…..)
If Kevin Rudd has learned anything it is not make the ‘Howard mistake” of thinking you can hang on to power like your ass would age like a good wine. No.
Kevin Rudd will do 2 or maybe 3 terms & bow out like Carr, Bracks & Beattie. He’s too smart to be caught out like that.
326 Flash. See Mumble. ” Rudd is a Conviction Politician”. Rudd needs other conviction politicians and that includes Garrett. Garrett didn’t lose Labor one vote except when he had to follow Labor’s Pulp Mill politics.
I disagree it was a well run campaign. It was a focus group campaign so deliciously disparaged by Keating. Don’t you remember the miles of typing on this blog frustrated that Rudd/Labor weren’t responding effectively to LP messages?
It’s lineball as to who was the greater Howard stooge:
Hawker as Speaker
Calvert as President
Fifield as Chairman of the committee colloquially known as Senate Estimates
I have often daydreamed about the kind of conversation these three would have over afternoon tea, sitting around glumly staring at their coffee, sighing about the difficulty of maintaining decorum, and limply concluding that there was really nothing they could do about it, because after all, they’re only the Speaker, the President and the Chairman.
I did HTV duty at Berridale, a small town of approx 500 voters in Eden Monaro down near the snowfields. A very hot but enjoyable day. ALP had shifts of 4 to 6 on in 3 shifts, greens had one in 2 shifts. Libs had 2 in 2 shifts. All the Libs on the upper side of 65. With one exception, sullen and slightly belligerent to others. On a couple of occasions, red neck farmers sons with the heightened sense of entitlement that comes with inheritance of a farm and a lifetime on the Govt tit whilst professing to be proud of their self reliance and independence showed symptoms of outright aggression, including shouldering female HTV personnel (accidentally of course). This is a booth that has never had an ALP majority, in 2004 Libs got about 68%, this time they got approx 58%.
I spoke to the OK lib HTV man towards the end of the day. He stated that he thought things would not go well for his man Nairn, but thought the Libs would hang on federally. I asked him if he thought there would be a three cornered contest next election if Nairn did lose. He replied that there probably couldnt, as the membership strength just wasnt there to do it. He claimed that for this election, Nairn was forced to pay for assistance with HTV, and he didnt know a member younger than 60.
Not a promising outlook for a blue ribbon area of a notionally marginal electorate.
ESJ, lol. My advice is take it a day at a time. It worked for Ivan.
For the Greens to improve they’ll need to move to the centre, which will lose them support from the left. Unfortunately I think they’ll just have to be happy feeding off scraps.
The Liberal leader will spend a lot of time in QLD and NSW.
It won’t help much though.
He didn’t explicitly say it. He tried to imply that he was there to serve for the people of Higgins, but it came off sounding like he could go anytime between now and 2009.
No 373
VoterBoy, your characterisation of Costello is truly pathetic.
Picture yourself in the same position, and I wonder whether you wouldn’t pursue a different path.
Let’s get this straight on Garrett:
All Labor contenders were on red alert because it was an election campaign. He meets a guy who identifies himself as a high profile radio presenter. And he makes a joke, the import of which undermines the entire Labor strategy..
I know I’m simply restating a much trawled over incident but when it is baldly stated like that, how can anyone in Labor trust this guy again, for a very, very long time?
Wow, Liberal hacks lose an election, and now they start spouting New Age garbage.
The Liberal Party had a BIG lesson yesterday. The Liberal Party has isolated thousands of voters with their arch-conservative social policies. Australians are basically a secular people. The Liberals have become too close to Family First and groups such as The Exclusive Brethren and Hillsong. Big Mistake!!!!! Australia is not the United States of America. I think all the ‘true’ Liberals should form a new party and leave the CONSERVATIVES to their fate. I dont see any future for the Liberal Party if they continue with their increasingly right-wing religious agenda.
Mad Professor @212. et. al.
Agreed: I’m looking forward to, starting tomorrow, the demolition of “Liberals are better at managing the Economy” meme.
Re Royal Commissions:
Those suggesting an enquiry into ASIO via Haneef. Rudd needs to be careful. The Spooks are suspicious of Labor and the Yank Spooks less so. I suspect there is still bad blood from when Lionel Murphy as AG raided ASIO.
For those interested two films to watch: “Mr Neal is entitled to be an agitator” and “The Falcon and the Snowman”.
However, my impression is that Rudd plays the ball not the man. I don’t see him as the sort of person who will seek out vengeance just for the sake of it. However, if it’s over bad process, that maybe a different sotry.
I still think he will get a junior ministry. But not cabinet until after the next election if he performs really well.
I’d agree with Adam about the prospect of by-elections brining new talent, but the NSW branch is in such dissaray, I’m not sure the talent pool is there. Who of any talent would want the prospect of 6+ years of opposition? Nope. The libs are sedt for implosion. It’s happened several times on that side of politics, it’s overdue.
“346
Grog Says:
November 25th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Yes Voter Boy – Costello is so worried about the financial tsunami comming that he wants to get a job in the sector.
And btw Voter Boy. Given the result, I have to say your posts from you Lib mate have proven to be right on the money.”
Yes. Again I don’t think he had access to internal polling and so on (certainly not up to date stuff), but he is an inveterate gossiper and is sufficiently centrally placed to hear snippets of a lot of what was going on around the country.
I haven’t gone back through everything he said. I think he was right about the Sydney mortgage seats and Queensland (although even the dogs were barking this). He was wrong about Higgins, or at least any swing he said had been there appears to have disappeared. But the sense of panic – which I always felt was a good indicator of what the polls must be saying – he captured very well.
I’m now dying to find out the inside goss on Cos, and the new field for the leadership race.
374 Adam
http://www.smh.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/costello-wont-stand-for-leadership/2007/11/25/1195947541163.html
A01,
You are right about the need for leaders not to hang on too long, but the lure of power is very strong, and 2016 is only nine years away.
373 VoterBoy. Ditto for me.
“Spend more time with my family” is the biggest b*llshit excuse in politics.
On Friday it was essential for the future of Australia’s very survival that Costello be in the driver’s seat.
Now meh, he can’t even be bothered to try for 3 more years?
Obviously he’s all ripple no tsunami.
ShowsOn, thanks. I though so. He will be gone before Parliament resumes in February. And so should Ruddock, Downer, Hawker and Bishop be gone. (Bishop the Witch, not Bishop the Dominatrix).
And isn’t the NSW branch still run by the right, even after last week?
I don’t think Turnbull or Nelson would want 2 or 3 fundamentalist wackos taking over safe seats.
VBOW @ 373,
Costello didn’t get the job of “being an experienced person at the helm” anyway – his side lost the election. So what’s the logic of your argument? Are you saying he should try to be Treasurer/PM from the Opposition benches?
He’s had enough and he’s quit. Just like hundreds of politicians before him who’ve lost. I can’t actually see anything wrong with that.
Anybody who thinks the ALP will win the next NSW State election is certainly optimistic. The libs will surely bounce back there?
I think the Liberals need 6.4% in NSW baswitzer, big ask.
No 385
What is so new age about what I said?
I very much doubt whether anyone who has spent 11 years in top level government positions could be blamed for wanting to do something else after being thrust into opposition.
does anybody think danna vale will go as well? or even farmer after his tantrum especially if he sees all the others go.
The choice of the lyrical baldster was always going to be bad tactics. The main game was to get the centre and leave the Greens to take the left wing. In this scenario the lyrical baldster was going to be used by the Gov to call into doubt the sincerity of the centre thrust. Simultaneously, the Greens were going to be able to portray him as a piker. No wins at all there for the Labs. Meanwhile, he appears to have learned from his mistakes, is no dill, and probably deserves a run as a junior min or parl sec in less dangerous waters.
The ritual knife the leader mid term exercise is scheduled for Feb 2009 in NSW too
I’m in the ‘Costello is a waste of space camp’
He can chose to do whatever he wants, that’s true, but that party machine invests a lot of time and money in each and every candidate (a lot more on some..).
He’s proven himself today, and on many other occasions to be a fair weather fellow. The instant he’s seen a cloud he’s disappeared up his mom’s skirt….on several occasions. Now when his party needs some ‘heavy lifting’ done, again, he’s nowhere to be found.
I don’t doubt he’s made the right decision for himself and his family, but waiting till someone else forces your hand is pretty poor form. He’s had so many occasions to put his own stamp on his own destiny…nothing!
375 – Noocat
The trouble is, the Greens don’t market at all. They somehow feel it beneath them. God, what they could do with a few pollsters and an image consultant…
No 397
If any government deserves to be tossed out, it certainly is the Dilemma NSW Government. Pity about the admittedly weak opposition.
Jacky Kelly has moved in with the loser from Lindsay.
What DOGS?
#406 – what? in a relationship?
I think O’Farrell is in with a real shot of taking out Iemma.
You must be like the Young Liberals at my booth yesterday who claimed that Iemma was worse than Mussolini.
Not many liberals left in the liberal party these days…
The Greens need to actually learn to play nasty. For one they need to preference with the Liberals in the inner-city seats to get into second spot and vote labor out on preferenes. Labor (under the hand of Chairman Albanese) has certainly had no qualms about teaming up with the Liberals on inner city councils to keep the Greens out.
The Greens will never be taken seriously as a ‘major’ party until a name change. While they have more policies other than the environment, but with a name like ‘The Greens’ makes them look like a one policy party.
CC don’t forget that 4 year terms might become a realty. That could be 3 + 4 + 4. Or leave a year before the end of his 2nd termto make way for who ever is inline. I’m just glad we have a 1st term.
No 404
Even with fancy marketing and focus groups, lunacy cannot be disguised.
WHAT! They’re lesbian lovers? Is that why the knew more about what each other knew than the whereabouts of their husbands?
Maybe their husbands are gay lovers, and it was all just cover?
Marko-
we don’t “market” because we don’t have the funds that the Major parties or the religious minor parties do. Believe me , we try. And we definitely need to do it better
but virtually the entire camapign is run by unpaid or very part-time staff.
I think they do a great job with such meager resources. (I’d love to see that change!)
J.
It works for Family First.
DOGS. What do you mean?
So will the Daily T headline tomorrow be “It’s the Telegraph wot won it”?
GP How about Mal Brough for NSW opposition Leader he is unelectable in Queensland. It seems to be the only job that hasn’t been canvassed for him by Liberal hacks today.
410 Edward StJohn They would not have got any part of my vote if they did. And a lot of other peoples as well.
No 409
I do think O’Farrel has a chance, but the problem is that the NSW Liberal opposition is starved of talent.
But then again, so is Dilemma’s camp. Reba Meagre Meagher anyone?
Well GP if Reba Meagher is so poor how come the Liberals havent been able to force her out?
413 Generic Person “Even with fancy marketing and focus groups, lunacy cannot be disguised.” It even shows through in that statement.
GP-
a little respect, Buddy. We’re the third party, and neither side of politics can actually afford to forget it, no matter how much it pisses them off.
It seems the entire Liberal party is starved of talent, hence they’re in opposition everywhere.
AAHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh the smell of victory is swwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeett.
I had to indulge in my HUBRIS.
No 419
I’m not into booting out other members to save talent. It’s unfair and undemocratic.
My understanding is that if it wasn’t for the support (discipline?) imposed by the PM’s office over the last few years, the Lib NSW branch would have self-destructed ages ago. Where is the strength for the Libs? Victoria – don’t think so. WA? umm… The fact is they’ve had a bunch of superannuants, business flunkies, wood ducks and yes men queuing up for seats. Turnbull is the notable exception. Hawker is a prime example but to this add Dutton, Morrison (now in Cook) and that lying pr*ck Pyne in Sturt. There’s so little substance it’s laughable. Except, I’m laughing.
Well Chris B, yet you no doubt gave your second pref to Labor, how pointless>?
Is it true that Matt Price has passed away?
Sorry,has Jacky moved in with the loser Lindsay,would be interesting.
While we’re all bad-mouthing Costello, does anyone else remember when he and Abbott took Bob Ellis to court because he had defamed their wives in a book? “New Jerusalem” I think it was.
That was the first time I thought what a no-hoper he was.
Yes, Basil, unfortunately.
Hmmm. If climate change does come in over the top of all other issues, which, on the balance of probabilities it will, then the Greens will be vindicated as the only sane ones in town. The rest of us will be regarded retrospectively as a bunch of lunatics playing with matches and cans of petrol in a house of straw. Of course, if climate change does come in like that, there will not be a whole of pleasure for the Greens in the old “I told you so.” Sort of no-win for them, really.
Or, sadly, I should say.
Brenton – what nonsense. You’re a political junkie, and hate the Liberals from the start for their conservatism, but the ordinary Australians who swung their votes do not. They were tired, wanted change, and Rudd looked nice.
“396
Dyno Says:
November 25th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
VBOW @ 373,
Costello didn’t get the job of “being an experienced person at the helm” anyway – his side lost the election. So what’s the logic of your argument? Are you saying he should try to be Treasurer/PM from the Opposition benches?
He’s had enough and he’s quit. Just like hundreds of politicians before him who’ve lost. I can’t actually see anything wrong with that.”
Hmmm.. I can see that you, like millions of other Australians, paid no attention whatsoever to the Liberal Party’s campaign themes this election.
Let me remind you. To run the country you need experience. Only experience will get you through the hard times. These guys in opposition have no experience. Therefore you’d be mad to vote them in.
Now, let’s take this forward three years. If you’re in opposition, and you’ve run that line in the previous election – and we now know only too well how lines from previous elections can come back and bite you in the bum – what is a better selling point: having a Leader of the Opposition who has had 11 years in the second most senior job in the country, or a leader who has had just a few years in parliament? Who will be better to harass the government in the intervening years – someone who knows where all the bodies are buried, or a tyro?
Still, it’s not my concern…
BoerWar FYI
Climate of Kamchatka
The absolute temperature maximum on Kamchatka is +34`C, the absolute minimum is -24:26`C on the islands and -49:60`C in central and northern parts of the peninsula.
The number of days with temperature over +20`C in summer: in coast area 1-6, in the valley of Kamchatka river 35-55.
Maximum amount of precipitation up to 2600 mm a year (south-east seaside).
Maximum wind speed in winter up to 40 m/c (at the seaside).
Volcanoes, glaciers, sea around take part in forming of the Kamchatka’s climate.
430 Basil Fawlty Earlier on today.
Australia’s most senior Liberal in power right now is Campbell Newman. Brisbane Lord Mayor. Come March next year we’ll ‘knock him off’ too!!
No 424
I’d respect the Greens more if they evenly divided their preferences between the Liberals and the ALP.
LTEP @ 381
The Greens can move to the center for the same reason that Labor doesn’t worry about the Greens: there’s no major party further to the left. People want their votes to count, even if they think their party has gone a bit too far to the right. They’ll still be to the left of New Leadership Labor ™.
Matt will be sadly missed by many, certainly by me. A good and decent journo.
ESJ
You left out the earthquakes. And lots and lots of hydrocarbons.
A01,
I haven’t forgotten the possibility of 4-year terms, which, if they are fixed, I support, but they won’t happen until the ALP gets over 1975.
VBOW @ 437,
It is possible that Costello’s presence at the next election could have helped the Libs (which is a different argument to the one you were running previously, btw).
Possible, just not very likely.
Voters decide preferences, not parties.
434 Boerwar,
you are right about ClimateChange. We didn’t just and raise it as an issue to win votes – it was actually because we are hoping like hell we can do something as a nation to at least minimse the extent an impact of it’s effects.
It’s a whole novel idea about politics being about issues,rather than party power.
I’m hoping it catches on.
441 Generic Person. I think they’ll take that into account next election.
DOGS – What a delicious twist come post election!
The blame game is alive and well:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/25/2100632.htm
441 [I’d respect the Greens more if they evenly divided their preferences between the Liberals and the ALP.]
Um,GP haven’t we just seen the Democrats disintegrate by using this disastrous policy? Any party that has anything to do with the Liberals is asking for extinction.
Rudd should just legislate for fixed 3 year terms. Then at the 2010 election we should have a referendum on going from 3 to 4 year terms.
He wouldn’t even need to campaign, he could just say “it is your choice”, thus he won’t appear as a loser if the proposition fails.
No 447
Did you miss all the pre-election preference deals?
GP -
sorry to break it to you, but I’m not sure that gaining your respect is a high priority for us.
It would seem that any chance of Pyne being elected deputy leader of the Liberal Party has gone now that Costello won’t be leader?
Would also think it would be pretty risky now he has a very small margin in Sturt.
CC. 1975…meaning?
No 452
The democrats disintegrated because they were really the Greens by another name. Lyn Allison was barely distinguishable from Bob Brown.
Did you miss the fact that when you vote YOU are the one that controls the pencil and YOU determined the order you put the numbers in the boxes?
Is being brain dead a pre-requisite for joining the Young Liberals these days?
No 455
Ditto for you jen. Remember, you’re the one that started the talk about respect.
It seems your sphere of lunacy is alive and well.
jen @ 415 –
As a Greenish person myself, I was delighted to see that my local HoR candidate for Sydney had a YouTube video up. That is, until I watched it. Almost embarrassingly, shockingly bad. I watched it and got quite angry. “What a missed opportunity to talk to their base in their native medium,” I thought.
So yeah, they made a video, but they made a complete botch of it. That’s just bad planning.
You don’t need money; you do need volunteers, and yes, you do need talent. If the Greens aren’t building up those networks, this needs to be a top priority.
(And yes, I plan on volunteering my services for just this task. I would have swung in to volunteer something, but it was about 72 hours before the poll and there was just no way to get something turned around that quickly.)
Oh dear… I thought all this nonsense would be over after the election.
Well I never voted Democrat in my life because they were formed by Chip who was a Liberal Minister and I could not stomach a party who gave preferences to Liberals.
Although Lyn is female and Bob is not. Might have slipped past you though.
It is obvious the Democrats are dead. But surely they would have some party organisation / infrastructure that the greens would like.
Bob Brown should propose to merge the parties just so he can get access to that.
GP@458, the Death of the Democrats can be traced directly to their support for a GST.
Lesson for history is, side with the libs and suffer.
The Liberals in NSW have to set about making themselves electable. Barry O’Farrell hasn’t layed a glove on Iemma yet.
It is time the ABC was made independent of government, we need an arm of the media which can act without fear or favour. Some formula for funding must be found which removes the possibility of any government, Labor or Liberal, strangling it to force promotion of their agenda. With some exceptions (George M etc) the MSM have generally been so biased they have lost all credibility.
Labor still ahead in Swan by 39 votes at 9:29 tonight. One booth left to count. Stirling seems lost (Labor behind by 2000), Cowan to Liberal 51.35 or almost 2000 votes.
if Brendon Nelson becomes leader of the libs, then the Libs will be led by an ex labor union boss
bahahahahahaha
i think i read somewhere that Tip needs to hang around til March 08 to qualify for the top bracket super plan, or something like that.
any news on that?
by election for Higgins before July i think. Gives him 6 months to line up his preferred money making appointments after his public announcement today that he is available.
452 steve Spot on, I never have voted for them since the GST was passed. And I’m still angry.
Costello has a history of wimping out when the going is tough. I know this has been posted before, but in case anyone hasn’t seen it, over a decade ago PK described Tip as a ‘low-altitude flyer’ for his failure to challenge Howard. His behaviour today is entirely consistent.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnwn4q_ZE9c&feature=related
Marko -
good one. We definitely need this kind of support.
The fact that Howard did not know last night that Costello was quitting demonstrates to all how little regard Costello had for each other, and why their TT interview was such a joke.
Beazley is admired by all in the ALP. Everyone in the party knows he did the toughest job, and got no reward. (He will now though!)
No 466
Sorry imacca, but the party infighting over more than five years, a series of leaders and a convoluted message that ended up as a carbon copy of the Greens’, was the cause of death for the Democrats.
Have been away from my post for 48 hours or so on the ground fighting the election – as they say – we won our booth for ALP btw with a 14% swing.
Has anyone else logged into Centrebet and noticed they are still giving odds for who will win the election?
$1.16 ALP $4+ for “any other party”. They have paid out on some of my bets already so I just rolled it into the ALP to win.
Get on it whilst you can.
BTW does anyone knw where you can get a streaming version of the count as it unfolded? They stuck me at a booth at the far flung end of Dobell and the Deputy RO was so keen to have scrutineers around to ensure a free and fair election – hi Racheal at Wyoming Public (I meant what I said you run a great booth) – that I didn’t get away till about 9pm at which point it was really all over red rover and I missed out on all the Antony Green insights.
If Antony is reading this blog still I’d value his insight as to whether he still feels that scrutineers are relevant anymore in getting the results through on the night. What does he estimate is the delay between say the parties being able to call an Electorate and him being able to do so now?
Swing Lowe, nice one. For the next little while the telephone box will feel crowded to the small mob of remainders inside, slugging away, swinging dead cats and sloshing pails of bile over each other. Tanner was right.
Well, bloggers, off for a bit of shut-eye. Apart from Matt Price, it has been a very good weekend, especially for my wet tendency.
Did you hear Beazley on SkyNews say he wished he could’ve given Rudd’s victory speech, but doubted that he could’ve done it so well? He also said it will go down as one of the great political speeches in Australian history, which was a bit hyperbolic, but you can’t really blame him after what he went through.
Anyway, Bomber will be on the plane to Washington by January.
Rudd pays tribute to Matt Price…
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22818842-662,00.html
No 468
The ABC should be privatised. That’s the only way to make it truly independent of government.
Here’s an excellent bit of US reviewing of the Howard years, and his demise:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2007/11/24/howard/
Greenwald makes up for all that maudlin pap about the ‘man of steel’, and puts the little rodent’s actions in the right light.
You don’t seem to understand what the “C” stands for in A.B.C.
Goodnight all, from what has been an absolutely magnificent day. What was it? 24 seats minimum?
Commune?
Commissariat?
Conclave?
Co-operative?
No 483
You like playing dumb do you.
The ABC is fully funded by the Government and the Government also chooses its board members.
23 minimum 29 maximum
OK now for the big one, how much did Belinda Neal win by?
Many Liberals will never move to the Greens because their stance on economic issues is just too left-wing. I never understood why more small-l liberals didn’t desert the Liberals and join the Democrats. Too late for that now, I fear.
ShowsOn, I don’t think fixed terms can be legislated becasue of the Constitution and the need for the government to be qable to gain Supply.
A01,
The ALP lost office in 1975 becasue the Senate deferred Supply and the Governor-General (the one who was asked to join the DLP but didn’t, not the one who did) sacked the Whitlam Government. I did not support the Senate’s action, but there is no doubt that it has the constitutional power to act as it did. Four-year fixed terms have to deal with the issue of Senate power, adn the ALp is still hung up on being sacked in 1975. If it could get over that and accept the power of the Senate, we could have four-year fixed terms as the default position with an exception for a loss of Supply. Referendums which increase the power of the executve get defeated, so any referendum to take away the Senate’s power will be defeated.
GP, ‘privatising’ the ABC is not going to happen, and only complete morons couldn’t understand what that would do the country’s soul.
Do grow up, you talk such inane twaddle I seriously wonder why you bother.
Not exactly fully correct GP. The ABC does generate some revenue on its own.
You know one of the interesting things about tip resigning is that it opens the door for his brother (Tim). I have a lot of respect for Tim and rumor has it that he was asked to stand as a Senator a few years back but declined because the media would focus too much on the contest between the two brothers. With Peter out maybe Tim would be interested.
Okay. Woops! It seems I have bet on the “next Federal election”.
Still confident on my investment, although figuring in 3 years investment the return is pretty low.
The Senate will prove political different but not only because of the Liberals.
Labor wishs to amend work choices. The Greens want to abolish it.
Mr X and Family first will support the Greens for political reasons.
The liberals will sit back and enjoy the fun of Labor being “politically damaged”
Ditto alot of “climate change” legislation
Where the greens will push for grossly un commercial solutions
Beazely deserves all the plaudits from Rudd ,he set the platform and has twice the heart of Costello.
My apologies for all the typos above. I had a late election night, and should probably stop typing.
What’s with these Greens supporters thinking they’ll be a major party and the Liberals will be a minor party…ummm the Greens are an extremist Left wing political Party they’ll never hold seats in the Lower House again.
Swan is still a possibility if the postals come into play we’ll see.
486 [the Government also chooses its board members.]
Does the word ‘rigs’ or ’stacks’ mean anything to you,GP?
There seems to be some incomprehensible desire to get Brough back into parliament. He is not a nice person. None of the other Liberals such as Slipper and Somlyay will resign to give him a byelection. And any byelection in such circumstances would almost certainly be won by the recontesting ALP candidate.
Maybe some of Brough’s supporters should take a dose of reality.
No 468
The ABC should be privatised. That’s the only way to make it truly independent of government.
What, so the greedy shareholders can flog it off to someone like Fox News on listing, and then we can have ‘fair and balanced’ reporting, give me a break!!!
Why is he not a nice person It’s time? Do you have any personal information or is this related to the nT intervention?
No 491
Save me the melodrama Kirribilli. The ABC is not representative of any collective “soul” of the country.
Privatisation is the only answer to make it independent of government.
Ron Brown,
If the Senate is ‘difficult’, there will be a double dissolution. It is in the interests of the Greens to make sure the Senate is difficult because a DD election will increase their numbers.
No 501
Please enlighten me as to how else you make a government organisation independent of government.
Yep – the fact Brough was seen as leadership material is rather telling I think.
Robertson 2PP Neal 50.65 Lloyd 49.35. Four booths left to count. Swing to Neal 7.52 per cent. I understand local branch members hope she’ll win so she’ll be out of their hair.
Apparently the Democrats have researched this extensively with advice from Q.C.s and constitutional lawyers. FIXED terms can be legislated. However, moving to FOUR YEAR terms would require constitutional amendment.
I wouldn’t mind if the ABC and SBS TV were merged. You could have 1 channel exclusively for Australian content, 1 channel exclusively for foreign content. Then an Australian news channel, and another international news channel.
500 [Maybe some of Brough’s supporters should take a dose of reality.]
It’s Time you have made a bad grammatical error. Never put ‘Brough’s Supporters’ and ‘reality’ in the same sentence.
RB @ 495 – Yeah, right, the Greens don’t know anything about economics. Nor has the Green movement in general learned anything in the past 50 years about how to make conservation/renewables pay. It’s all about breaking down the machines and moving to Nimbin and smoking bhang all day.
Pah. Fortunately, I do make a study of this, and I call bull-hockey:
http://www.celsias.com/2007/11/23/nanosolars-breakthrough-technology-solar-now-cheaper-than-coal/
Guess what: solar electricity is now cheaper than coal. Put that in your spreadsheet and smoke it.
Thats quite a pickle CC !
Damien J,
Surely after getting such a strong swing BN would be a ministerial contender?
You make it a CORPORATION with a board and a chairman etc.
Let us all recall that ESJ said there was no chance Labor would win Robertson.
I think were waiting on postal and prepoll in robertson. It should be ok considering that we had the expensive postal vote campaign but these close counts can change
GP the whole point of the ABC is it is government funded.
It answers to the senate (and thus the people). You remember the Senate, it’s that things which will once again be a proper house of review.
I would have thought given you no doubt send Ferrevanti-welles heaps of details about the ABC’s “bias” you’d know all about the Senate estimates process…
Why should Bob Brown propose to merge with the Democrats? The Democrats lost Party status in the Senate at the 2004 Election and sat there for 3 years next to the Greens and didnt OFFER to combine their forces! The Greens are a world -wide political movement. Their problem is our political system! Once again we have seen The Nationals with a smaller percentage of the vote get 10 seats. The Greens with over 7% of the vote get zilch. In NEW ZEALAND with that percentage the Greens would have 8-10 seat in the parliament. It is virtually impossible for new political movements to get representation in our Parliaments. I call it the House of Unrepresentatives.
If my experience of yesterday is anything to go by, G.P. wants to abolish the Senate. That is what most Young Liberals want it seems.
506 [Yep - the fact Brough was seen as leadership material is rather telling I think.]
You must admit though it does take a special talent to turn a safe seat into a loss. It just reeks of what the Liberals consider leadership material for the two decades in opposition that they crave.
GP – 503
You could not possibly be more wrong. ABC Radio is the soul of regional Australia. Not nearly as glamourous as the TV channels, but far, far more important.
505, It requires imagination and good will, but removing control of the revenue stream from capricious decisions by government is a good place to start. There should be some sort of formula entrenched in policy. The BBC seems to do a pretty fair job, they were not afraid to take on Blair when needed.
I think ShowsOn I said in a close election Labor would regret its candidate selection.
But now the public has voted, surely someone with her blend of front line experience (shadow min for consumer affairs) and local know how is in the front line for ministerial promotion?
Brough lost because the demographics in his seat changed and the voters dont care about his portfolio,that area is virtually attached to Brisvegas.
It’s time @ 500,
Basically agree with you about Brough (though I have no idea whether he’s a nice person or not).
I reckon that the rest of the party will give Brough plenty of encouragement to wear out shoe leather canvassing Longman for 2010 (I mean that quite honestly). He’s the sort of person who could easily win back a marginal seat if Rudd slips up a bit.
But if he wants to be parachuted into a safe seat … – I suspect the response won’t be at all friendly.
Well when you look at the “talent” in the Senate on the LNP side, I can see why they would want it abolished.
# 503 Generic Person Says: November 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Keep up that argument mate. It’s a good way to make sure any party you’re a member of remains permanently in opposition. Indeed, it’s that kind of statement, that is the reason the liberals have ended up there.
We have quite enough free-enterprise Rupert Murdoch press thanks. Or the more right-wing extreme journals you subscribe to.
I’m not convinced a DD would be that good for the Greens. In a normal election, with the 14.3% quota, their 9% or so support gives them a pretty good chance of getting a senator up in every state, giving them 2 to 4 (and potentially 6) each half-senate election, for a total of 4 to 12. With a 6.7% quota, they’d get one spot for sure in every state, and two in Tasmania, giving them 7 senators, but quite likely no more.
A DD would probably result in one Family First or Christian Democrat or One Nation senator being elected in each state…
ESJ I understand aBelinda has been asked to open 25 coastal workchoices re-education camps by Julia Gillard. I understand Barbara Bennet is to be the head trustee.
Whatever. You said Labor wouldn’t win Robertson, but it looks like they will.
That was my point.
Only 7 more months of Senator Lightfoot, the lowest spectrum of all Senators.
I think from memory ABC privatisation is the only fightback policy not implemented.
Still Oskar Mk2 could be given her head by the ALP?
505 [Please enlighten me as to how else you make a government organisation independent of government.]
Step one has been achieved. Vote out the Government that has stacked the board with deadwood.
No 513
Giving the ABC boardmembers, doesn’t change the fact that the boardmembers are appointed by the Government.
Damien J, ROFLMAO
Night all. Something the Tories on this blog should remember (given some of the tripe that has been dished up here today)
You lost, in an election that is one of the most emphatic rejections of your parties actions and philosophies on record.
Your front man, who was accorded slavishly worshiped icon status by your ilk, has been subjected to a humiliation only visited on someone in that position once before in our history.
His further failures to provide for the comfort,continuation, and restoration of the party to which he owes so much are only now becoming obvious.
Look about ye lads, tis wilderness afore ye.
EstJ
He is a friend of a friend and we have met him on some occassions at private events. And we have heard things through private channels.
Steve
Reread my sentence. It’s presupposition is that said supporters lack reality. Gramatically and logically correct.
I hope Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull are starting to write up an ACME Fight Back!
So you’re saying that Rudd should sack Janet Albrechtsen and Keith Windshuttle?
OK, I’m pretty sure that can be arranged.
It’s still in the draw under the dispatch box, but they aren’t allowed on that side of the House anymore.
Is that about kicking out the son>?
I understand his brother is the former Family Feud gameshow host and now regional newsreader, BTW I love his hair.
# 505 Generic Person Says: November 25th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Put the ALP in charge.
lol Glen. You sure you;re not secretly on our side??
513… So are High Court Judges!!
No 536
I don’t have a predisposition with regard to who should and shouldn’t be on the ABC board, except to say that the government should not have control over it.
That’s the only way you make sure that either side of politics can’t “stack” the board with partisan hacks.
Damien J,
Because she was in the Senate pre-Latham pension abolition does she come under the old rules for pension entitlement?
Voter Boy of Over the Water,
Thanks for you insightful posts. Please keep us posted during the week if any further information drops off the back of the truck.
I totally concur with your assessment of Costello.
Perhaps a factor in his no-contest decision is that Question Time has become an utterly sadistic exercise due greatly to his incessant bullying backed by The Speaker and heaps more members. Can you imagine what horrific Question Time paybacks a plethora of Labor hatchet squad were itching to dump on Costello. Most of Labor MP’s have decades of hatchet practice in their brutal factional wars.
I assume that now they will dump it all onto Downer, Abbott, Bishop and Vaile. My impression is that Nelson and Turnbull have maintained far more civility, but I’m open to be disabused of the quaint notion.
I think Labor is entitled to stack the board of the ABC to its hearts content. To the victor the spoils.
# 533 imacca Says: November 25th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
We need them to keep reminding us though… so no-one forgets what was rejected. Let’s see the libs go on a ‘privatize the ABC’ ticket, and see how we go.
Glen Says:
November 25th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I hope Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull are starting to write up an ACME Fight Back!
Yeah Glen, we hope so too, and we will give it the same treatment it got last time, but good try mate
No 539
Such hypocrisy Pi. For you, it’s only a partisan board when the Liberal Party is in power, and independent under Labor…..
Ah, the double standards.
They’ve already said they won’t. ABC board appointments will have to be passed by the senate. Labor won’t control the senate.
Paris was worth a mass!
Oh geez we’re still on the hot button issue of the ABC.
Ciao all.
Maybe Costello could have a morning show on ABC radio so we can bag him one on one.
Surely Maxine should claim victory in Bennelong on 51.7% of the vote. If the Liberal candidate was anyone else but Howard, Labor wouldn’t be so damn cautious.
Dont be naive ShowsON,
You can’t handle the new government having higher standards than the old government.
Abbott will be the new Albanese style headkicker, but who on the ALP’s side will do the dorothy dixers?? Maybe Garrett cos he’ll be a backbencher after this.
Seriously with this inexperienced lot coming into Government we all should watch Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister because that’s exactly what’s going to happen in the first few years of Rudd lol. Fun times ahead.
Maybe Paul J Keating has a copy of ACME Fight Back, Malcolm can put some money into Keating’s pigery for a peak lol!
Edward StJohn, I’m pessimistic about the American dollar but extremely optimistic about gold!
Anyway, I’m off to bed now.
Goodnight all
Could someone please sack Barry Cassidy? The man is a hack!
It is funny to see that old habits die hard. I know it has only been one day since you lost power but here is some advice for the Liberal trolls on here who think that their side can still control the narrative of the public debate. Those days are well and truly gone my friends.
It is the new Govt which will rewrite the narrative of the Howard/Costello era not the Liberals. The same was true for the Howard Govt which had successfully rewritten the Hawke/Keating era to its own advantage until it was finally challenged and the record was corrected. Beazley, Crean and Latham were unable to correct the narrative and it took Rudd to set the agenda and challenge the Govt on its lies re strikes, unemployment, interest rates, inflation, economic reform etc etc.
Keating correctly argued that until Labor was prepared to take on Howard’s lies and distortions regarding Labor’s record on economic management and reform head on, they would always be on the back foot and lose the argument.
Beazley and Latham were scared of the Hawke/Keating legacy and ran away from its proud record. The tables only turned when economists started to dispute the Howard/Costello spin. And Rudd in a masterstroke successfully outsmarted Howard on economic management during the campaign but also ensured Labor’s achievements were recognised as well as Howard’s disastrous record as treasurer.
So in summary, the Libs have lost power and with it the control of the narrative.Your record will be taken apart and the myth called “best treasurer” and ‘best pm” etc won’t last 3 months.
Welcome back to earth Liberals. Ain’t it pretty? You will learn to live with reality. There is no stronger medicine.
Apologies if it’s already been posted, but I reckon the following is one of the funniest things of the whole election; in fact, probably for several elections. The following 4 paragraphs were written by Peter Costello’s chief hagiographer and press-sec-in-waiting Glenn Milne, and went online at 7:41am today.
“Despite Labor’s depiction of Mr Costello as a “living smirk”, he’s a gregarious, funny and self-deprecating person. This side will be on show as opposition leader.
And, despite speculation he might not want the job after almost 12 years as treasurer, Mr Costello has already taken the decision to accept the challenge of the opposition leadership.
In this respect, he learned a lesson from former Labor leader Mark Latham’s early departure from politics.
Mr Costello considers politics to be his vocation and does not want to repeat Mr Latham’s mistake – abandoning his career too early and living the rest of his life wondering “what if”.”
Gee, that guy’s finger is right on the pulse of decisions in the corridors of power. Can’t stop the hubris, sorry. Surely the guy can be retrained for a career that he’s good at?
I’m not aware of any requirement for the Senate to approve an ABC board appointment.
525
lets not forget the IPA harping on about how howards reforms didn’t go far enough. Talk about legitimising howard as a “moderate”, whilst simultaneously pushing a radical agenda and moving the debate to the far right. Pity IPA have pulled their journal offline since Roskam took over. It was always fun to see where Andrew Bolt was cutting and pasting his “ideas” from.
Not really, patronage to boards etc is a legitimate gift of government, harmless positions like the ABC board are ideal for party hacks – salary, trips and no chance to cause any real damage to the community or economy.
Don’t worry ESJ. I think parliamentary entitlements have been rising like the tide since Howard’s Latham me tooism of 2004. Even if Belinda can’t get the old scheme, in full season, there will be adequate and just compensation for our tireless representatives on both sides of the house.
Edward, I think your line in superior North Shore smartypants sarcasm has rather lost its edge now that YOU HAVE LOST THE ELECTION – or haven’t you been paying attention? Belinda Neale may not be a genius but she had quite enough talent to kick one of your oh-so-brilliant Howard ministers out of a seat he had held for eleven years and in which the demographics were working in his favour. The good people of Robertson obviously don’t share your supercilious attitude, so why go on fighting a war you have already lost? Get over it, and get over yourself while you’re at it.
imacca @ 533,
You’d be more right were it not for the fact that Rudd copied most Liberal policies.
Good luck with the history re-write on that one!
Glen, you’re just jealous that there are more people on our side to ask Dorothy Dixers. That job will probably fall to the new MPs for Dawson, Forde, Deakin etc.
As an antidote to all that has happened yesterday and today in Federal politics, myself and him indoors watched “John Lennon vs. the U.S.”. Made me weep. I recommend it to all those who value intellectual freedom.
Dyno,Rudd is not a proven liar.
544: I assume that now they will dump it all onto Downer, Abbott, Bishop and Vaile. My impression is that Nelson and Turnbull have maintained far more civility, but I’m open to be disabused of the quaint notion.
Hemingway, I was impressed by Nelson during the retirement speech by Bomber a few weeks ago. He was the only Lib in the house at such a momentous event, went up a lot of notches for me then. The rest of that sad shower were conspicuous by their absence.
Speculation tonight on ABC News that Mark Dreyfuss will go straight into cabinet. This bloke is a barrister, so AG?
Thank you for reminding me that we never have to hear De-Anne Kelly speak ever again.
Glen @ 498
The Greens at my booth ran about 85% to ALP. They were still inconsequential in the result but I am guessing that the overall preference flow between ALP and Greens will be at a record high this election.
I would like to know if there is any difference between Green pref flows in Tas to ALP versus rest of the nation as they were deliberately not preferencing ALP there. This might (hopefully) put to bed once and for all the ridiculous notion that Green preferences are so important that ALP needs to sacrifice Senate preferences and important policy positions etc…
Once again we have had a hyperbolic performance by the Greens which ended in a performance well below their predictions. We should acknowledge that this was very much a polarizing election for the major parties but even so their relevance as a major party outside of Tasmania must once be brought into question.
Bob Brown would appear to me to have only one more election left in him tops. He was all of a sudden looking pretty tired this time round. The Greens have not been able to demonstrate an ability to succession plan so there must be a reasonable risk that they will decline or even implode when he leaves the scene. Milne (I think she is the next senior Green now) was an ineffectual leader of the Tasmanian Greens and therefore not a natural successor.
I’m going to throw a speculator out right now and suggest that the Greens will have real trouble with succession and may well become “the party that ate itself”. Reasons:
1. Tasmanian Greens see themselves as the true heart of the Green movement in Australia and therefore there might be a belief that they should keep the leadership crown.
2. In counter to this the WA Greens arose separately to the Tas Greens and may feel that they are the “true heart”.
3. The Greens nationally lack a Federal structure to bind themselves. They very much rely on grass roots up.
3. There is a “cult of personality” around Bob Brown which may very well disintegrate with his departure from the leadership role, similar to Tito and Yugoslavia
From this I suggest that the Greens may be at risk of “balkanising”. Even in certain States they have weird sbstructures e.g. in NSW there are various Green groups – Newcastle Greens, NSW Greens. They lack the true discipline to go forward as a major party.
Oh Adam I am just going to put you on ignore, you’ve been very nasty ever since I refused to post on your blog – it was just too worthy and dull.
HH @ 553,
I reckon you’re right about the Labor caution in Bennelong.
At one stage last night Channel 9 were refusing to call Bennelong even thought Blind Freddie could see Howard was gone. Again, because it would be so noticeable if you made that call too early and it ended up being wrong.
Howard Hater – AG will certainly go to either Dreyfus or Debus.
No 570
Nelson’s only chance is treasury. There’s no way he’d put a finger on Rudd as leader.
Edward if you had posted on my blog I would have deleted it on sight. I’ve been very nasty since about 1975.
That’s not surprising, I can’t imagine many Green voters support nuclear power.
Edward… how’s your blog at the Australian going by the way… is it true they pay by the hit?
Adam @ 565
I was at a joint booth on Saturday for Dobell and Robertson and the Liberal booth captain was waging a war on voters – a sure sign of defeat in my experience.
Apart from expressing certain homophobic and xenophobic sentiments he was handing out the Liberal how to vote cards with a line as follows in counter to YR@W:
“Vote for Work Choices. Your choice. Have a job or go on the dole.”
With Lib talent like this – who needs ALP booth workers?
563 [Not really, patronage to boards etc is a legitimate gift of government, harmless positions like the ABC board are ideal for party hacks - salary, trips and no chance to cause any real damage to the community or economy.]
ABC radio in Brisbane has degenerated in line with the whole dumbing down of Australia during the Howard years. It is just not true that this has not caused real damage to the community.
Oh someone wants to privatise the ABC.
Yeah, good luck with that.
Open warfare …calm down Adam & ESJ. Adam I missed your blogs on the last week..glad your back!
SimonH, that’s seriously funny. Bugger, I’m going to have to stop visiting so often and do some serious work.
And seriously, anyone with some ideas about health, anything from primary care to tertiary, and research, please email me at 47wankel@optusnet.com. Please note obscure Monty Python reference in both moniker and email address. Sniggle!
No 582
Howard has not been responsible for the dumbing down of Australia. It has been the state education boards that have presided over that policy disaster.
Read Kevin Donnely’s “Dumbing Down” for a more detailed picture.
DOGS @ 569,
Rudd’s record for honesty will speak for itself once he’s been in power for a while.
I honestly don’t know that much about the guy’s integrity, very willing to give him the benefit of the doubt unless/till he proves otherwise.
Which shadow ministers will Rudd drop? That’ll be the media narrative for the next few days.
John Who?
I must confess, for all the excitement, and how happy I am today – I rather wished Beazer was giving the victory speech last night. His concession speech in 01 was twice the calibre.
Id prefer Rudd in government to Beazer, and on soundbites – but let Beazer give the big speeches.
Part of the tragedy of the last 9 months is that it was a Presidential style battle between two of the least inspiring orators in Australian political history.
Somebody hire a decent speechwriter – please!
No 583
Exactly. Privatising the ABC is politically impossible.
But my response was related to Basil who mused that the ABC should be independent of the government.
There’s no other legitimate way of doing this other than privatising it.
All is well LTEP, and you?
I have however made irreversible promises that Radio Berlin (ie posting on Pollbludger) will cease broadcasting on Saturday for the forseeable future.
Apologies if I’ve missed someone making a similar comment before now, but one of the last journos who deserves being taken seriously is jilted lover Cassidy.
Cassidy did the election analyis on last Friday’s Noon ABC News Bulletin in place of the usual Middleton and took the opportunity to tell the newsreader that Rudd “fell short” of showing the voters that he is a credible alternative PM. It was petty adolescent revenge, and of course, he didn’t have the guts to go within cooee of repeating it this morning. It would have been a treat to watch Penny Wong step on him like a bug if he said that to her.
My experience over many decades in the Labor Party is that they forget nothing and forgive even less.
However, George Mega is always worth quoting.
586 [Howard has not been responsible for the dumbing down of Australia. It has been the state education boards that have presided over that policy disaster.]
GP that is the one single, greatest achievement of the Howard era. How dare you deny the ‘dumbing down of Australia’ as Howard’s legacy? Surely you are not going to try and convince us that Howard actually achieved nothing while in office?
The dumbing down effect is due to our commercial (ie privately owned) television networks and their mindless pursuit of everything that is crap from the Evil Empire run by the Village Idiot. Thank god we only have another 12 months of that bast*rd to run, unless they impeach him first and lock him in Gitmo.
HowardHater,
The game of the next 72 hours.
GP 586
If anybody is going to be now trading at discount, it’ll be Kevin Donnelly.
I’m glad everyone else was as unmoved as me by KR’s victory speech last night. His verbal tic (’our great nation Australia’, repeated every second sentence) pissed me off after the second time – like we were unsure what our nation was called…
The only slightly uplifting stuff was the ‘third way’ stuff, which may or may not mean anything in the long run.
I’m pleased to see the back of Howard, but having been burnt with one Blair already, I’m nervous about another one…
Generic Peabrain @ 505
You make them a statutory body with heads appointed by parliament for fixed terms longer than a parliamentary cycle. A similar thing works for the bureau of statistics and the ANAO. You guys don’t like the ANAO do you? A bit too independent for Mark Vailes liking I guess…
steve @ 593,
Pretty much every Western country has dumbed down during the period of Howard’s PMship. Not sure that you can blame him all that much. It’s mainly driven by changes in culture and technology.
Noone’s being dumbed down. It’s a myth that’s cooked up once every generation to make them feel as if they were smarter back in the day.
An even better way to ensure independence of the ABC would be to remove its funding from the annual budget. I don’t know whether the license fee route would be politically feasible, but the current mechanism means that it needs to be ‘in’ with the current government every year.
The other interesting thing is that the Government and Opposition will be led by 2 men who have or have access to 9 figure personal wealth. All very American as where the 2 speeches last night “this great nation” “our best days are ahead of us” etc etc
I thought KR’s victory speech was awful. Someone must – must – MUST train him out using that rhetorical device “you know what?” or “guess what?” every second sentence.
GP@590, not necessarily. They could introduce something like the UKs TV license fee, which gives the BBC a source of funding not directly controllable by the government. I don’t envisage anyone ever bringing something like this back, but it would be another pathway to greater financial independence without commercialisation or privatisation.
You got to hand it to Malcolm Mackerras, he predicted a Labor Landslide with Howard losing Bennelong on October 15:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22586061-5014047,00.html
He got Wentworth wrong though. But he got Lindsay and Paramatta right.
599 You must admit though that the Board of the ABC has been a particularly deliberate and effective dumbing down directly attributable to the Liberal Government as a matter of policy.
597,
Rudd’s speech was “Captain Bland” I thought. Ok, but nothing more. The stuff about a “cup of tea and an Iced Vo Vo” showed what a nerd he truly is. (Dame Edna’s going to have fun with that line). But nerds might make good PMs, we’ll find out soon enough.
Howard did ok with his, under the circumstances. His only real requirement was not to cry, and to remember to congratulate Rudd (which he actually did pretty well I thought). His was a pass.
Big deal.
Of course Australia’s best years are ahead of it – John Howard is no longer prime minister.
GP,
I have read Kevin Donnelly’s “Dumbing Down”, and it did not convince me. It’s a little late in the evening for me to present a detailed arguent here, but in Victoria the Liberals were the ones who caused immense damage to the education system, damage which the ALP has started to repair, though not fast enough for some (including me). International tests show Australia performs very well compared with other OECD nations in literacy and numeracy, though that is not the whole story, of course.
Generic Person, You’ve called me away one last time in relation to privatisation of the ABC. You’re thinking is just what has got you and your political party just where it is now. Nowhere. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Just try and understand, privatising does not mean anything beneficial in any domain necessarily. Look at what’s happened to for example Victoria’s public transport system since it’s been privatised. It’s complex, I know, but unless you even try to understand, you’re f****d. as a political force
“argument”
Well, folks, the highlight of the polling day for me in Curtin took place at the Cottesloe Civic Centre. A group of four likely lads turned up to vote at the same time as a visit from the putative Lib deputy leader. One of said lads was dressed, if that is the word, in a Kev07 shirt and a bright pink jock strap. He was as a camp as the proverbial row of tents and proceeded to prance around in front of Ms Bishop and the queuing punters, purporting to be about to vote for Kev. Ms Bishop was looking aghast throughout and made a hurried departure. One of the aforementioned punters left the queue and came over to one of the ALP volunteers, tore up her HTV card sayng. “I was going to vote for the ALP but after that I’m not”. The quick-witted volunteer replied that “They are all young Liberals!” At which she took another Labor HTV saying. – “Well, that’s ok then!” We didn’t get a pic but of all people, the Family First volunteer did! Such debauchery! The final act was that the man in pink bent over at one stage causing an elderly lady in a car to almost collapse laughing.
The Howard Government is gone and the Liberal party shield John Howard is gone. There is no longer such thing as voter support for a Howard Government or even a Howard liberal party, with a Costello on the backbench.
The Liberal party now lacks credibility as an alternative government and you would think that in a very short term their Poll support will plummet.
They will not want a DD any time before they can rebuild themselves and present themselves as a credible alternative which, may take some time. In the meantime Rudd Labor has the strong hand and will be able to be aggressive with policies if they like and, may even use as a tactic.
The LNP will not allow the conditions for a DD to appear if they are in fledgling state and especially if Rudd builds his stature in this time.
They would risk a total route and loss in the Senate and, if the LNP do struggle to rebuild themselves, you may see Labor seek out DD conditions to strike and weaken them further if it becomes a real possibility.
LTEP @ 600,
Fair point.
When I say “dumbed down” I mean that people know less than they used to about the sort of stuff that was considered important when I was at school.
It’s at least debatable whether that is really dumbing down, or whether it’s just me getting old.
PJK, the pic is probably up on the FF porn site by now.
No 609
Not all of his arguments were convincing, I agree. But the argument that was quite telling and undeniable was the fact that a central tenet of the state education bureaucracies was that education was a vehicle for affecting social change rather than for learning. It’s all there in their respective mission statements etc.
Basil Fawlty,
Thanks for reminding me of Nelson’s respectful appearance for Beazley’s farewell speech. He was also reasonably civil on the Skynews panel last night as opposed to some of the Lib panel members on other channels. He and Hawkie seemed to be kindred spirits at times. Robb is just appalling and Hockey nearly as bad.
The Coalition would be wise to support Labor’s changes to industrial relations.
They need to admit that WorkChoices played a part in their defeat.
I thought Rudd’s speech was just right. Sincere, direct, simple, good humoured, forceful, passionate without being a rant. I agree he has some annoying quirks of phrasing, but they have become his trademark and he enjoys using them. I thought Howard’s speech was very good too, by the way – generous and dignified.
Have the Liberal trolls on here noticed A SEISMIC SHIFT IN AUSTRALIAN POLITICAL LANDSCAPE? It happened yesterday. Most if not all of your arguments and predictions over the last few weeks and today have finally proven their worth – TOTALLY AND UTTERLY USELESS.
I actually didn’t mind Rudd’s speach. I thought it was quite endearing in some parts, particularly as he loosened up. Maybe I was just so happy about the result that I was deluded.
Of course education results in social change, it takes a population that is dumb, and makes it smarter.
Is the Young Liberal theme song “if I only had a brain” from The Wizard of Oz?
No-one has yet discovered WHERE IS TONY ABBOTT?
ShowsOn,
The Liberal Party Federal President today said they have to face up to the role Workchoice paid in losing their “battlers”, so your take is sound.
I liked Mrs Rudd!!!!! She looks like an older version of Miss Connie from Sneaky Sound System-very sweet!!!!!
kina, the Labor Party would not be so ruthless would they? ROTFL
I mean those factional disputes over the years have given Labor a tender merciful and empathic attitude to their opponents, and they would never stoop to kicking them when they are down, WOULD THEY
No 622
I will no longer dignify your ignorant utterances with a response, hereafter.
They should just let Labor pass whatever it wants to, get that out of the way, then debate some other things.
If the new leader of the opposition stands up in the House and shows a bit of humility, then I think that would go a long way to stamping new authority on the Liberals, and to show they will admit mistakes.
Adam,
Do you reckon Tony’s just taken the day off (possible I guess), or are you hypothesising something is afoot and he’s considering his leadership position?
I was more interested in his press conference today…the story hasn’t changed, he appears deadly serious about his policy platform.
I was just stating the f’ing obvious.
Sadly that seems to be the hardest thing to comprehend for your type.
I agree ShowsOn,
They should vote up Labor’s IR policy as long as it is consistent with Forward with Fairness.
Coast to Coast Labor Governments-it doesnt get much better than this.
Is the next Liberal PM in the Parliament? I hope its not Alex Hawke.
I think Abbott will run for deputy. His terrible campaign killed of any chance he had of being leader. He is on record as saying he is too conservative to be leader, which would just remind people of Howard.
625 – full votes for Therese Rein’s busted move on stage. My highlight of the night (only because unfortunately I didn’t get to hear Chris Pyne concede).
Perhaps Abbott will become the keeper of the flame?
Yep, it will be. There is absolutely nothing in it for the coalition blocking that mandated legislation.
Same deal with ratifying Kyoto. In fact, it would reveal the new opposition leader as treating climate change seriously, which would immediately differentiate him/her from Howard.
BENNELONG LATEST AS AT 4.30 PM TODAY
79.09% counted
Whilst Maxine leads by 2PP 3.32%
but only by 2439 in 2PP votes
Lets hope the postals are not a large number of the 20515 votes still to count
PS
1/ Informal 9protest vote) was 4.90 % !!!
2/ all ‘others’ preference liberal ,eg Fred Nile , Family first
So Greens 7 Democrats have preferenced Maxine 96.81% !!!
Had their preferences run 755 , Maxine’s 2PP would be 482 votes NOT 2439
Abbott got thrashed by Roxon every time they discussed anything, I don’t think he has got it as leader or deputy. Then again all the debates went Labor’s way.
630 Kina, Labor in government will implement everything that was promised in the election campaign. This has always been one of the major differences between the Liberal party which will promise anything and then do whatever it wants in government. Labor election policy can be read like a map for the next three year term.
By the time it is Alex Hawke for PM, I will be retired and I can leave the country. I suggest the site ‘International Living’ for anyone else who wants to prepare to leave as well!!!!! LOL.
I think Abott will either run for Leader or quit politics. Given his substantial share of responsibility for the Saturday Night Massacre, I would have thought the latter more likely. But it will depend on what Cardinal Pell advises I guess.
He is certainly the keeper of the Howard legacy. However I don’t think he would be good as deputy. He will be far more conservative than any leader, and thus you’d have tension from the get go.
The Liberals need a leader who is a Republican, and who believes in climate change and reconciliation.
If they don’t have that, then they will be painted as old fashioned like Howard.
steve @ 640,
Your faith is touching.
I must confess I still keep having flashbacks to Julie Bishop telling KR that he was a naughty boy and he should go to the naughty boys corner, I wonder was she ever in B+D, she did it so well.
Correction – hit 5 button instead of % button
had Green/Dem. preferences run 75% ,
Maxine’s lead would be 482 2PP not 2439
No 642
I don’t think Abbott was responsible for the Liberals’ defeat. If you’re all supposed to be psephology junkies, the polls had been consistent all year about an ensuing landslide.
Generic Person… I’m interested to know… did you ever believe the polls?
I look forward to the new Leader of the House passing bull$hit motions that stop the opposition from taking points of order whenever Rudd speaks.
That was the sort of arrogant crap that Abbott liked to deploy, so I can’t wait for the new government to throw it right back at the coalition (if it remains a coalition).
I don’t blame it on Abbott either, I think the entire government was equally inept.
Interesting thing about Abbott is that there was actually a very low swing against him. I think people would be ok with him as Deputy. As Leader the only purpose he would serve is to be the guy who loses the next election and keeps the real next Liberal hope (surely Turnbull, or else someone we’ve not heard much from yet) away from what will probably be a dire three years for them.
644 [Your faith is touching.]
That is what Rudd is all about. Liberals find it so different that it is almost impossible for them to get their head around the concept of actually honouring election promises. Another difference is that under Rudd every letter will be answered. A vastly different approach to the last 12 years of dysfunctional government.
Had a stand up heated argument in my wife’s Chinese Christian Church! today with an Elder…. he was still attacking Rudd using Howard/Smirk manta of no policies blah..blah. Ended up telling him in not so Christian terms to open his effing ears.
mmmmmmmmmmmm, Julie in black leather and thigh boots, sorry, forget I said that
steve @ 652,
Just like the Iemma Govt in NSW, right?
Or are there two different Australian Labor Parties?
Dyno, you need to wait for them to disappoint you and then get jaded and cynical. If you don’t hope for something better then that’s pretty sad.
Dyno,
The Iemma Government is Labor in name only. When Carr was riding high in the polls, our branch always referred to him as the best Liberal Premier NSW ever had.
Bishop’s ageing sex-kitten routine was very distasteful when viewed from the gallery, although the Liberal backbench always got a snicker from it.
LTEP,
Do you have a view on the performance of the State Labor Govt in NSW?
LTEP @ 656,
That’s probably good advice. On that note, farewell all.
I think the bigger lights of the defunct Howard era will follow Tip’s cue and move on. Ruddock, Downer, Abbott – all have had their day, and then some.
Anywhere, who really cares what the shadow team is up to! Losers.
Whats the Ministry??
655 You’ll find out soon enough Dyno, but I can assure you it will be different to the nonsense of the past twelve years.
I’m of the view that says more about the good folk of Warringah than it does about Abbott’s performance in the campaign.
For any interested- they have Rudd’s acceptance speech on his site [with Anna's intro]
http://www.kevin07.com.au/
Dyno, yes there are to some extent, it is the old story of a government too long in power (NSW) versus fresh (Rudd). Iemma will suffer the same fate as Rat if they ever get their act together in the Libs, likewise Queensland Labor is showing signs of the same malaise, too long and they get arrogant and sloppy. At least Seeney (Nats) in Qld is beginning to show some signs of being a true opposition. the Libs here are still rudderless.
LATHAM OR COSTELLO “DUMMY SPIT” COMPETITION
Latham
1/ had the guts to challenge for leadership
2/ had the guts to put himself to the voters for their political decision
Costello
did NOT have the guts to do EITHER
WINNER: Costello easily
HOWARD’s POLITICAL LEGACY : the PM who lost his own seat
COSTELLO’s POLITICAL LEGACY : the biggest’ dummy spit’ in political history
Both have now their just desserts
No 648
I believed the polls to the extent that a sizeable swing had to be expected, but that we would be able to retain government by a slim margin.
Obviously I was wrong, but I respect the decision of the people.
Guess what! Business Unions start sucking up to Labor
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22811448-643,00.html
Does anyone think it has something to do with them having 83+ seats in the new House of Representatives?
Speaking oy blog, here’s a really touchingly dumb post on it from last week. The power of self-delusion is quite amazing:
Paul Kavanagh Says:
November 21, 2007 at 11:28 pm edit
Former Democrats voters who supported the Liberals in 2004 (few went ALP or Green) are returning to the Democrats. I’m convinced of this based on the past two weeks spent at the Higgins Early Voting Centre.
The extensive and overwhelmingly positive media for the Democrats this time continued this evening with the stunning twenty-minute SBS program on the colouful campaign launch. This program went to air shortly after Kerry O’Brien spoke with Kevin Rudd on the 7.30 Report about the GST’s central role in Australia’s economic success.
Recent developments, including the regional funding review and tonight’s Lateline story about the Liberals speading hate and lies against Muslims for their own political gain should further boost the Democrats vote.
All the while the Democrats’ adveerting has been a highlight of this dreary and uninspiring election.
—-
Needless to say, the Democrats polled almost no vote at all – even Allison and Bartlett got only a bit better than a random name on a ballot would get.
ShowsOn
That just shows the Govt is going to back business over unions. Nothing for you in all that perhaps a half eaten rack of lamb from the big table
That first line should read “Speaking of my blog”
Not really ESJ, I’ve only recently moved to NSW and then only in Queanbeyan which is really in Canberra. As such I don’t really have an idea of how services run by the state government are. That being said I’ve never been terribly impressed by Iemma and think O’Farrel at least appears to be competent.
The problem with a lot of state Oppositions is it doesn’t appear they really want government. They don’t try and really get their message out and sell their leadership. After living for years in WA I still don’t know what Omodei looks like even though I’m sure I must have seen him in the news a fair bit.
I couldn’t tell you one thing the NSW Opposition plans to do with NSW and I think that’s a big problem.
That being said, I think it’s almost inevitable they’ll win government at the next election.
665 [At least Seeney (Nats) in Qld is beginning to show some signs of being a true opposition. the Libs here are still rudderless.]
Seeney was real successful with his council amalgamation scare campaign. Never won the Tories a single vote. He is performing so poorly in parliament lately that Springborg could roll him as leader before much longer.
Maybe it should read “speaking of me”
ShowsOn @ 688
Would have been nice for them to have published that before.
668, interesting, see Telstra’s relationship got a mention, being poisonous with the Howard gov. Will be interesting to see how KR deals with the godfather Trujillo, maybe deport him as an undesirable alien, methinks.
It’s JWH who has been a very naughty boy.
Abbott, a natural loser. Conflicted. Only held there by Howard’s hillusions.
This is nonsense. I have not read back, but did hear late afternoon that Pyne is throwing in for deputy leadership, behind Turnbull.
A more laughable pair I can barely imagine. In fact, I can only think of laughable pairs.
No one, Turnbull included, will be turning the bad ship Liberal around within the next three years.
They need new recruits, after and well after they have managed to get over this, get a perspective, get back to what the Libs are supposed to represent. According to their roots.
In the meantime. Its all about the fighting. In fighting. For personal position, not political representation for the country.
It disgusts me absolutely that Costello especially, having filled his and their own and their friends and overwhelmingly massively wealthy company pockets with superannuation free gifts, a zillion dollars of taxpayer’s advertising money, a zillion dollars worth of favours along the way, I could but won’t go on, Costello particularly will not even face the music. And Downer has the nerve to say, while this looting is going on, that he knew all the while they were losers.
The music being that Costello knows he would never be the Leader of even the most abject Opposition.
And, in the meantime, the electorate has voted on the disgrace of Work Choices.
Roll on the double dissolution, if needs must. The electorate will not stand for any more nonsense.
Ahh! Old fashioned thinking based on division and false dichotomies.
No, it simply demonstrates that business unions are always last to support Labor, even if the Tory’s are pissing billions of taxes up against a wall, the default position of business is to think Labor could and would do worse.
The last Labor leader to be genuinely suspicious of business was Calwell, all the rest have been very much pro-business. But you wouldn’t think that from the way the business unions carry on.
Labor still has some messages to get out their and some history to correct and some facts to relate.
1./ They need to get it clearly understood that our economy prospers because of Hawke/Keating reforms and global/China boom.
2./ They need to emphasise that Howard totally wasted a decade of prosperity on vote buying or whatever [the Chief Economist of the ANZ Bank backs that up]
3./ The social divisiveness of the Howard govt.
4./ And the Howard/Liberal governments readiness to betray working Australians.
Labor has suffered at elections because of Howard’s misleading them on reality. Labor need to get these messages out often and clearly until they become accepted as matter of course….bit like the Liberal b/s mantra on 17% interest.
How long before Labor MPs stop saying “Kevin” and start saying “the prime minister”? It took Kerrie O’Brien 11 years to start addressing John Howard as “Prime Minister” rather than “John Howard”, which may reflect the adoption of the fawning American mantra of “Mr President” – even to ex-presidents.
Herring, Chris Curtis. Get back to the real issues.
They’ll start calling him Prime Minister on Friday.
Until then, Prime Minister-elect is probably the most suitable title.
I was a bit shocked when Anna Bligh called him “Prime Minister”, not even “the NEXT prime minister” or “P.M.-elect”.
Edward, it was you mentioned my blog. Were you born a conceited twat or do the Libs have a secret conceited twat training school somewhere? Don’t answer, I’m going to bed. Tomorrow is Day One In Power and I have to be up early.
Can anyone find the full text of Rudd’s victory speech?
I wonder when the tories will decide the leadership??
Still Nelson and Turnbull are front runners with Julie B&D Bishop inline for the deputy leadership by a long way.
I’ll be shocked if it isn’t done by Friday.
Howard will probably concede tomorrow based on these figures…
highlight of the campaign for mine was Howard’s own little battler Jackie Kelly on AM that morning, with the call waiting pinging off in the background, she was at once trying to justify the racist ploy and perhaps blame it on union thugs, truely a chaser moment.
please, no hagiography of this despicable liberal government or any on its members, if there was every any decency in any of them they all subverted it to that disgusting clarion call of racism from Howard and the vicarious pleasure so many people get from seeing others suffer.
Howard a deluded self serving petty man, who, its members will soon comprehend, has irrevocably damaged his party, (I would love it if that ego on wheels Turnbull took charge)
I take pleasure in knowing that in fifty years he will be remembered for kids overboard and hopefully, like Stanly Bruce aprime minister that lost his seat
Of course, it was Liberal HQ calling her to tell her to hang the phone up.
On my own, admittedly, topic of double dissolutions, is it possible to dissolve the Senate without dissolving the Reps?
I mean this, seriously.
My brow, lightened for a while, is furrowed again.
It would be for the best, it is obvious McKew would win the by-election.
The term ‘Liberal government’ has now become an oxymoron. None exist
ShowsOn at 685.
Yep. I have it.
It is possible to have a senate election, without a House of Representatives election yes.
The Senate isn’t actually dissolved though, unlike the House of Reps, it is an ongoing body, hence the different change over time.
Well we used to have half senate elections when the House was being elected but this stopped in the early 1970s…i dunno whether PM KR can do this now.
Crikey you can hold a half-Senate election but only at a certain cycle in the government.
In fact Gough was going to ask for a half-Senate election on the day he was dimissed if I recall correctly.
half senate elections were held in between federal elections, but it stopped.
We had a half senate only election in 1970. This is one reason we had a double dissolution in 1974, so that the terms could be synchronised again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate_election,_1970
Crikey Whitey,
No. The Senate has fixed terms. You can have a separate Senate election, but the term remains three years.
Cheers,
Herring
Paul Keating summed up Peter Costello back in 1995.
THIS VIDEO IS A CLASSIC!
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLLP4sc_6Q
THE ABC BOARD IS FULL OF HOWARD APPOINTEES
One of Howard’s best mates Donald is chairman , Krogh , Janet from the ‘oz’
NOW you Liberals want to change who appoints directors after you have lost !!
The ABC is disliked by Liberals BECAUSE it is balanced
The ‘Age’ is disliked by Liberals BECAUSE it is balanced
The ‘SMH’ is disliked by Liberals BECAUSE it is balanced
Lets look at the pro Liberal News
Channel 9 (but NOT when the Packers owned it)
Channel 7
Daily Telegraph
HeraldSun
Courier Mail (only Q’ld paper)
Advertiser (only SA paper)
WA News (only WA paper)
What Rudd should do is progressively get rid of the ABC board Liberal hacks
and appoint ‘even handed’ Directors like a Michelle Grattan
Then pass a Law that any NEW appointees need a Senate majority
meaning the Liberals NEVER will be able to stack the ABC again
Kennett has got stuck into Smirk big time in todays Age
ShowsOn,
There were separate Senate elections in 1964, 1967 and 1970. The major parties did not like it becasue the government was not at stake so minor parties got record Senate votes (e.g., Frank McManus’s 19.1 per cent in 1970).
Nice…!!
http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/11/25/dream-teams-for-the-libs/
I particularly like the Kevin Andrews / Philip Ruddock combination “..suck the light out of any room they entered.” LOL
700 [You can have a separate Senate election, but the term remains three years.]
Are you sure?
Yep, its wall to wall. (and why didnt the Tories make more of that?)
We’re ‘coming’ back??? The ALP is the only show in town.
In fact, I dare say the Greens run more local councils than the Libs. Since I can think of at least one thats Green majority. Thats one more than I can for the Libs.
Of course, it can all be sheeted back to Howard’s ubercentralist federalism (aka “Canberron the destroyer, runs amok”).
Thus, were all these defences carefully erected by the people at State and Local level over 10 years.
Now look at what you got, Libs: a big fat nuthin.
Zip.
Thanks JHo!
Yes. It occurs because an early election is called for the House, which puts the Senate out of synch. You cannot dissolve the Senate.
We probably need Antony Green.
Bet he’s asleep. Slacker. No AWA.
He’s probably still celebrating with Kevin Rudd and Maxine McKew about now CW.
Thanks, Chris Curtis.
Still strung out. Seeing fishy where no need, looks like.
Oh, Glen.
Oh Crikey Whitey lol.
Has anyone seen a full text transcript of Rudd’s victory speech?
Who cares about that slogan filled semanic traced script, Howard made his up on the go and it sounded better than KR’s speech.
His speech wont go down in History ShowsOn but wait awhile and someone will put the transcript up im sure.
BTW has Nostro popped up today?
Ms Crikey Whitey to you. Glen.
ShowsOn….You really want a transcript of Rudd’s speech?? Have you got insomnia or sumthin’?!
LV @ 701
God I miss Keating…
The Senate CAN NOT be dissolved without the Reps also being dissolved
IF this occurs the FULL Senate is up for re-election
(and of course the full House of Reps)
But there will be not a full dissolution unless Mr X and Family first think they can gain politically out of it…obviously they cann;t gain politically as they’re already elected !
715 [BTW has Nostro popped up today?]
He’s at Tony Abbott’s place.
CW, a thousand pardons.
Wouldn’t he still be in der bunker?
Let’s hope the Liberal party purges its reactionary majority, for the country can’t afford another Howard government
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-liberals-must-purge-the-reactionaries/2007/11/25/1195975866030.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
I must say I’ve waited over 11 years for a Labor victory….and Rudd’s speech was such an anticlimax. Like being excited about a xmas pressie and discovering it’s just socks. An inspiration he aint. Still, let’s give the guy a chance.
ShowsOn
Look at the BBC UK website. They have video of Rudd and Howard speeches.
Don’t know if in full. But surely our (maybe once more) ABC will have it, in due season.
722
ShowsOn – i know you don’t like the liberal party but our party is not controlled by the christian right i hate to break it to you, they are the minority in the party.
Dont worry Neilbris he’ll have at least 2 terms to bore us with answering his own questions zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Read the article Glen – Keating wasn’t referring the religious right. He was referring to politicians who want to divide us between unionists and non-unionists. Between Anglo-Celtics and non-Angleo Celtics. Between worker and boss, between citizen and refugee. His argument is that it is the job of the prime minister to bring everyone together, not to play up divisions.
Glenn Milne dumps on Howard (again):
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22819422-7583,00.html
Well Glen, we’ve been bored silly for 11 years by the former PM. I daresay the new incumbent will be just as gifted as his predecessor in the oratory dept. I guess we were hoping for some ‘light on the hill’ from KR. Faint hope.
I think he will get much better when he feels more confident in the job. It took Howard until 1998 until he was confident as P.M.
I think Rudd was feeling a mix of shock and relief, which is probably what I was feeling. I couldn’t believe it when Forde, Longman and Dawson fell, including swings of 20% to Labor in some booths!
On that note. Quotes.
By TIM JOHNSTON Published: November 25, 2007 New York Times Asia Pacific
Australian Premier, an Ally of Bush, Is Defeated
SYDNEY, Australia, Nov. 24 — Australia’s prime minister, John Howard, one of President Bush’s staunchest allies in Asia, suffered a comprehensive defeat at the hands of the electorate on Saturday..
..Mr. Howard’s defeat, after 11 years in power, follows that of José María Aznar of Spain, who also backed the US-led invasion of Iraq, and political setbacks for Tony Blair, who stepped down as Britain’s prime minister
..Mr. Howard may suffer the indignity of losing his own seat..to a former television anchor and rookie politician. He would be the first sitting prime minister to lose his seat since 1929.
..Mr. Rudd, 50, .. said his first acts as prime minister would include pushing for the ratification of the Kyoto agreement on reducing greenhouse gas emissions and negotiating the withdrawal of Australia’s 500 troops from Iraq…,Analysts said the leadership change was unlikely to bring a radically new foreign policy, although they expected a shift in emphasis in the relationship with the United States, Australia’s closest ally. ..
Mr. Howard has a strong personal relationship with Mr. Bush that is based on a similar socially conservative philosophy and a shared outlook on terrorism.
Australian opinion polls have shown that although Australians remain strong supporters of the so-called Anzus alliance .. they do not approve of Mr. Bush or the Iraq war..
..Mr. Rudd’s dry image was altered by the news that he had visited a strip club during a trip to New York in 2003.
He was a diplomat in Beijing and speaks Mandarin. He impressed many with a fluent address to President Hu Jintao of China when Mr. Hu visited Australia in September.
Australia’s PM-elect Rudd vows better global ties
By Rob Taylor Reuters Sat, November 24, 2007; 8:02 PM WASHINGTON POST
BRISBANE Incoming Labor Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, a Mandarin-speaking former diplomat, has pledged closer Australian ties with overseas allies and unity at home after ending 11 years of conservative rule under John Howard…
Rudd, 50, presented himself as a new-generation leader by promising to pull about 500 frontline Australian troops out of Iraq and sign the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, further isolating Washington on both issues. ..
As part of Rudd’s promised “fresh thinking,” he also teamed with a female deputy, former lawyer Julia Gillard, who will be Australia’s first woman deputy prime minister. ..
Neilbris… it’s hard to imagine Rudd can get much worse. We’ll see how he loosens up over the next year or two… but I certainly don’t see a personality of the calibre of Whitlam, Hawke or Keating from him. It’ll be hard to measure up to those Labor giants.
A Labor figure reiterates my point that Labor will do what it has promised in its election policy unlike the corrupted process we have come to expect over the past 12 years.
”What we will be doing is what we said we’ll do … reinstating CDEP and permits,” he said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22818337-601,00.html
Glenn Milne’s article doesn’t make sense:
“And Howard played a role, as always. It was noted as Costello watched Howard’s concession speech from the Wentworth Hotel in Sydney that the Prime Minister specifically limited his responsibility for the awful defeat to the campaign itself. This was taken as a clear signal that as the inevitable internal bloodletting took its course Howard was going to make certain that Costello shared the odium of his politically fatal ideological obsession with Work Choices.”
Costello was making his speech when Howard was making his!?
Unless Costello stopped speaking and watched TV?
ShowsOn@517: That’s a bit rich coming from the side of politics which abolished the senate in Queensland and which produced the only PM whose lack of respect for the upper house caused him to get the sack.
?MALCOLM TURNBULL Making a pitch to break from the Howard era. Return party to Liberal orientation, rebuild next election, fix climate change. Ruffled feathers during the campaign.
?BRENDAN NELSON Had a difficult time as defence minister but has solid support on the backbench, where he has been assiduously courting numbers.
?TONY ABBOTT Had a shocking election campaign but is in politics for the long haul. Colleagues doubtful about his steadiness.
?ALEXANDER DOWNER Not particularly ambitious for the role, but could step up as a gesture to ensure the party survives the enormity of the defeat.
?JULIE BISHOP Woman, ambitious, would present an alternative to the NSW candidates, would recognise the Liberal’s continuing strength in Western Australia.
?JOE HOCKEY Moderate friendly face to re-position after the Howard years. Had a strong campaign.
?ANDREW ROBB Significant experience as a party tactician and strategist. Regarded as decent by colleagues.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/liberal-leadership-up-for-grabs/2007/11/25/1195975872410.html
MALCOLM TURNBULL Making a pitch to break from the Howard era. Return party to Liberal orientation, rebuild next election, fix climate change. Ruffled feathers during the campaign.
BRENDAN NELSON Had a difficult time as defence minister but has solid support on the backbench, where he has been assiduously courting numbers.
TONY ABBOTT Had a shocking election campaign but is in politics for the long haul. Colleagues doubtful about his steadiness.
ALEXANDER DOWNER Not particularly ambitious for the role, but could step up as a gesture to ensure the party survives the enormity of the defeat.
JULIE BISHOP Woman, ambitious, would present an alternative to the NSW candidates, would recognise the Liberal’s continuing strength in Western Australia.
JOE HOCKEY Moderate friendly face to re-position after the Howard years. Had a strong campaign.
ANDREW ROBB Significant experience as a party tactician and strategist. Regarded as decent by colleagues.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/liberal-leadership-up-for-grabs/2007/11/25/1195975872410.html
The Liberals do not have anybody who is capable of winning at the next election. None of the current bunch, including Turnbull have what is neccessary. Turnbull is not the political animal you need to be for success. And, he waffles far too much and sounds like he is talking down to you.
Surely with 50 members there must be one acceptable candidate as leader?
Many would say Rudd wasn’t either Kina until he got the job and he’s PM.
The fact is the tories are that far behind they’ll need big swings back to them in 2010 to regain ground ie 10+ seats leaving Rudd with a comfortable majority.
Turnbull could do this, Nelson well who knows and Bishop is an outsider too.
As I said, Kina. Glen.
Justin, the Borbidge Liberal Government in Queensland promised to reintroduce their Legislative Council… but then conveniently realised they didn’t want to when they won government.
Also, I’m not sure how you read 1975 to say it was the PM’s lack of respect for the upper house that got him the sack… if you can explain it to me I’ll agree with you.
LOL! Why didn’t the Tory’s respect Westminster convention, and not block supply?
Oh, I remember, because they are hypocrites, only interested in conventions and traditions that suit them.
Turnbull may make an acceptable interim to bring them some cohesion while they look for a real leader.
You have to salute Glenn Milne and Peter Costello.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22819422-7583,00.html
Only Glenn Milne could hail Costello for crafting an economic policy that he hoped would – if adopted by a Labor government – limit its options in best managing the economy, therefore maximising his chances of being returned to office in three years time.
Only Peter Costello could think of such a selfish act of bastardry.
And people call Howard selfish…
Permits back? Means I get another staff member back..lol
For the record there are Northern Territory remote figures here.
Mr Snowdon said Mr Howard’s pledge for a referendum on a pre-amble to the Constitution recognising indigenous people was not a “relevant issue” in his electorate.
He said he got an unprecedented vote in remote communities with their Maningrida booth in the Top End getting a 94per cent vote for Labor. He said four other mobile remote area voting booths received between an 84 and 95 per cent vote for Labor.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22818337-601,00.html
Glen,
What do you see in Bishop that makes you think she is some sort of untapped prospect? What has she actually achieved which makes you think this? (Aesthetic arguments shall be ignored.)
ShowsOn & LTEP: Flowing rhetoric and powerful oratory is never going to be one of KR’s strengths. He’s a technocrat and is more interested in efficiencies and outcomes than with inspiring the true believers with his speeches. So yes, LTEP, he will never be a Whitlam, Hawke or Keating. But let’s hope his leadership and his actions are made of the things that inspire a nation. The way he speaks about them will matter less then. Besides, I imagine after 6 weeks of going 7 days a week, criss-crossing the country and being under intense scrutiny he was just plain buggered!
739 Also just for the record Borbidge was a National Party Premier.
Glenn Milne | November 26, 2007
“YOU have to hand it to John Howard. The man who immortalised himself as “Lazarus with a triple bypass” has reached from just beyond the point of political extinction to achieve his ultimate personal aim; denying Peter Costello his chance to lead the Liberal Party.”
Wow, so that is why he lost the election?
739: By refusing to acknowledge that two different senates didn’t want to pass the six bills originally proposed in 1974, then calling a joint sitting to get them through (refusing to respect the senate’s right to reject/review bills independently of the HOR). This set the precedent for ignoring conventions with regards to the upper house, which in turn cause Fraser to block supply.
I cant see any of that lot winning-sorry! Had to laugh, Robb decent, you have to be kidding. Is there a more mean spirited politician anywhere else in the country? he is a grub pure and simple. So much so, I am amazed he sought a front of house role.
“Howard’s hubris saw him finally dare the voters to dispatch him. They obliged, ultimately convinced it was the only way to get rid of him. ”
Yep, that bit is true Mr Milne.
No.
PL
A) She’s a woman (never been a female leader of a federal major political party)
B) She’s a lawyer (thus would fit in well with previous leaders)
C) She’s got ministerial experience (4 years) – Ageing (2003), Minister for Education, Science and Training as well as Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Women’s Issues since 2006.
D) She’s made inroads in her portfolio and left a mark (in particular the $5,000,000,000 “endowment fund” for higher education) and other grant schemes for public schools.
E) Been an MP for almost 10 years.
F) She’s easy on the eyes.
G) She can stand up for herself in Parliament like when Tanner when nuts at her, she stood her ground.
I agree. I think he is going to be presidential in parliament. He’ll talk up all the good things that the government is doing / has done, and let people like Albanese / Swan / Tanner / Crean do all the yelling.
VoterBoy of Over the Water 742
‘Only Peter Costello could think of such a selfish act of bastardry.
And people call Howard selfish…’
Shellfish.
“Seven selfish shellfish.”
I feel sorry for the bloke/shela who has to be Foreign Affairs Minister, Rudd will run the whole deal lol!
“Word leaked out to Labor that it was Janette Howard who was in fact running the campaign.”
Ma and Pa Kettle ran the Liberal party campaign? Just goes to show how whimpy the Cabinet and advisers had become. Don’t tell me she was also running the country?
To be honest I have no great expectations of Rudd. I was happy to see Howard beaten, rather than in Labor winning. Over the years I have had fewer and fewer reasons to vote Labor. In the 80’s it was to introduce and bed down Medicare and to save the Franklin. But now, it’s more about preventing the damage being done by the Tories. I’m hoping that some of Labor’s front bench will give this unreconstructed democratic socialist something to vote FOR!
My guess is Crean, with McMullan in trade.
Brendon Nelson tipped to be Liberals leader per Neil Evans
(Centrebet media manager)
Bookies sources are usually sound
Julia has just about the credentials, then, Glen.
Apart from the Hey, Big Spenders.
Soon to be Queensland opposition leader, Springborg, wants the Nationals and Liberals to merge.
THE push to amalgamate the Liberal and National parties into a single conservative force is set to gather momentum with the demise of the federal Coalition government.
Former state Nationals leader Lawrence Springborg, one of the chief proponents of last year’s ill-fated merger proposal, yesterday said he remained committed to amalgamating the parties.
Mr Springborg said the state and federal election losses inflicted on the Liberals and Nationals could have been reversed if a united conservative force was presented to voters.
“Eminently sensible ideas ultimately come to pass – it is just a matter of time for obstacles to be removed and ultimately you get a realisation,” Mr Springborg said.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,%2022819828-5013650,00.html
Is it just me, or is there something Gnomish about Nelson? He has this huge head on a tiny body. Looks rather unfortunate in my view. A bit like John Button.
With Turnbull to take him out Peacock V Howard style in 12 months time?
I love this quote from Nick Bryant’s (BBC’s Sydney Correspondent) blog, regarding the Liberal Party’s wake.
Completely broke? I thought the economy was going so well, surely they should be awash with cash.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/nickbryant/2007/11/no_resurrection_for_lazarus_1.html
This isn’t very surprising. They wanted to do this before the last QLD election but Howard stopped them, now Howard is road kill it is logical that it will go ahead.
You can’t ’sell’ Julia you could ’sell’ Julie, that’s not being mean or anything im talking politically here, that’s just a fact.
Julia has never been a minister, Julia has only had her hands on labors IR policy (a joke and nobody knows what it is) and (medicare gold) two flops.
Nelson has been in Parliament since 1996, he’s got backbencher support especially in NSW (not many seats left there but hey). Chances are he’ll win, though you never know the Party might back Turnbull.
I still think regardless Julie Bishop will be deputy.
“755
Crikey Whitey Says:
November 26th, 2007 at 1:06 am
VoterBoy of Over the Water 742
‘Only Peter Costello could think of such a selfish act of bastardry.
And people call Howard selfish…’
Shellfish.
“Seven selfish shellfish.” ”
Well, he was certainly crabby throughout the campaign.
De-Anne Kelly reckons the Nationals were punished for complacency. This is the core and noncore promises coming home to roost. why would a political party promise the world deliver nothing and hand the savings back to people as inflationary taxcuts?
labor now holds large tracts of regional and rural queensland which once would never have even considered voting Labor as the National Party becomes more irrelevant with every passing year.
OUSTED Nationals MP De-Anne Kelly has lashed out at her own party, claiming it didn’t do enough for regional areas.
Ms Kelly – who lost her Mackay-based seat of Dawson with a 13.6 per cent swing to Labor – accused advisers to party leader Mark Vaile of blocking proposals from Nationals MPs.
Warning the Coalition could now languish in opposition for a decade, Ms Kelly said the Nationals had lost support through complacency.
She said the party had not pushed hard enough to deliver on much needed infrastructure projects.
“We were far too complacent in not pushing polices that were stronger for rural and regional areas,” Ms Kelly said.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22820318-5013650,00.html
steve we need to get rid of the Nationals, had the ALP won 100 seats and the Nats below 10 we may have seen the conservative parties combine as they should.
Adam. I haven’t seen Tony Abbott, but his car is parked near the Gap.
Mike you are a prick IMHO.
So nice to see all the experts come out and twist the knife in howards back after the fact. Why weren’t they saying what needed to be said 6 years ago?
Kina. Not only was Janette Campaign Manager, long time.
My eye, as it does, noted her pastel wattle coloured clothing on her Last Big Night Out.
Sprig, though, seemed to be missing, as did the tiara.
Though she still played the part of crowd controller.
Telling, to me, her evident disdain for her husband, as she looked anywhere but at he.
And the children. Crushed.
Oh, well.
773 slackboy.
WE WERE!!
There’s always the next election Glen where Labor will still be a chance of picking up a few more Nationals seats in Queensland. With both state coalition parties due to roll their leaders and replace them with Springborg and Nicholls they could yet be wiped out totally up here before much longer.
Maybe the few remaining Tory Queenslanders could merge with the Western Australian Tories to make up the numbers.
Mike, you are a legend IMHO.
They love jumping on a bandwagon after the fact.
Steve considering this is a landslide and we’ll have a new leader i don’t think we can do worse next time.
All the Nats and Libs need to do is called themselves The Queensland Party, like the provincial tory parties in Canada called the Yukon Party.
Anyway we’ve got a good chance to get back these voters as Howie is no longer the leader and we’ll have a new team.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/liberals-implode/2007/11/25/1195975870395.html?page=2
“Mr Howard, who almost certainly has lost his seat of Bennelong, said nothing publicly yesterday. His only duty was a private function for staff at Kirribilli House. As the Liberals drowned their sorrows on Saturday night, one former senior Liberal adviser blamed the result on “the f—ing Chinese”, an apparent reference to Asian voters in Bennelong turning against Mr Howard.”
So Robb has nominated for DEPUTY leader!
I think his plan is to bore everyone to death, thus stopping people re-electing Rudd in 3 years.
All you who are already passing judgement on Rudd’s premiership should really wait for a bit of hard evidence to accumulate.
Sheesh.
771 Mike Cusack Says:
‘Adam. I haven’t seen Tony Abbott, but his car is parked near the Gap’.
Mike.
New security measures were put in place a couple of weeks before the election, at the Gap. Fences, cameras, goodness knows what else.
Another curb on Liberal rights.
Said I then, drastic, but likely essential. Given the polls.
Anyway, enough from me. All good, good, good.
Bedtime. Night all.
779[ Anyway we’ve got a good chance to get back these voters as Howie is no longer the leader and we’ll have a new team.]
I thought you had a smaller, less stable, old team many of whom will be due for retirement at the next couple of elections. Labor will continue to eat into National Party seats in Queensland for a long time yet at both state and Federal level.
Renewal is not what the Libs or Nats are good at. Infighting, now there is an area to ‘Go for growth’.
Glen @ 770
You need to abandon the national country party and their old world economics and populist social paradigms. There was nothing ‘liberal’ about the howard regime. The sad fact is howard was a borderline crazy reactionary and his attempts at holding onto power have turned Australia into an intolerant and bigoted welfare state. This turd of a man who would hold up Menzies as his hero must have only learned how to run scare campaigns from the Liberal patriarch and idol. This is why we got a re-run of the reds-under-the-bed drill with his pathetic union-boogeyman drivel this campaign.
Maybe this has been discussed earlier, but where can the Libs hope for any renewal in the short term? Qld & NSW branches are shambolic. WA?
Get over it. The arrogance of some of the bloggers criticizing Rudd. Why the bloody hell aren’t you Prime minister. I will tell you why because you have not got the capacity or talent or intellectual acumen. What a bunch of artless whingers. I respect both Hawk and Keating however Kevin Rudd is his own man and he won the election hands down. You are a bunch of petty try hards who should shut up if you have nothing worthwhile to say. What matters is being a good person not a great orator. One of the greatest victories of all time and you bunch of know it alls are pontificating like naughty spoilt children. Contemplate your own stupidity before you play holier than though. Get over it and get a life.
It will be for the last time. There will be nothing mentioned about unions in the 2010 campaign. It is dead, Howard gave it one last go around, and it didn’t work at all.
ShowsOn @ 788
I’m not so sure. Many in the Liberal party truly have been raised to believe that unions are evil. They truly misunderstand what unions mean to the common worker and their interaction in the labour market.
Justin says
“Whitlam ignored conventions by calling a joint sitting to pass 6 bills that were previously rejected, so Fraser then ignored conventions & blocked Supply”
Like Howard , you liberals never let the facts stand in your way of twisting them
FACTS
The liberal controlled Senate 6 bills TWICE rejected that Labor believed it had a mandate to implement.
Whitlam under the CONSTITUTION had 2 choices:
wear the bills being rejected OR
decide on a ‘Double dissiolution’ which puts the whole Senate and House of Reps to the voters to decide
Under the CONSTITUTION , after a ‘double dissolution’ the bills that caused the ‘double dissolution’ MUST BE put to a joint sitting of both houses
This Whitlam did as per the Constitution
To suggest his actions broke ‘conventions’ shows how little you know about how the Senate & Reps operate persuant to a ‘double dissolution’
Fraser’s act of blocking Supply was achieved because a Labor Senator died & Q’ld Premier Belke Peterson BROKE convention by not appointing the Labor nominee but instead appointed a ‘liberal hack’ called Albert Fields
WHOSE VOTE WAS NEEDED TO ENABLE FRASER TO BLOCK SUPPLY
Justine will not respond , because like Howard when caught out on a 1/2 truth , he just moves onto the next issue to do a 1/2 truth on !
Are their any labor blogers familiar with the above history ??
My polling booth. I was there for 14 hours, from sticking up Kevin and Stephen’s pic all over the place to watching these very numbers come together. Nice to be a witness to a teensy tiny part of history.
Note the 15 votes for the Socialist Alliance? We had this one poor guy get terrible sunburn for those 15 votes. Dedicated, but deluded.
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HousePollingPlaceFirstPrefs-13745-8140.htm
Sorry, 14.
Ron Brown @ 790
I have mixed opinions on the blocked supply and subsequent dismissal.
I would agree with Fraser that the Whitlam government needed to be held accountable for trying to get loans without the authority of parliament. The way he and Kerr (and Joh) did it was however grossly wrong.
Gee what about the clown who only got 5 votes! What a putdown. I wonder if there was any candidate out there who got less than that.
It just won’t get off the ground.
Rudd won’t be biased for or against unions. He will certainly consult with them, but he will also consult with business and other organisations, just not the Exclusive Brethren.
So if the Liberals want to attack unions they will never be in government again. Labor will just say “here we go, same old story, no ideas, no policy”
“Mr Howard, who almost certainly has lost his seat of Bennelong, said nothing publicly yesterday. His only duty was a private function for staff at Kirribilli House. As the Liberals drowned their sorrows on Saturday night, one former senior Liberal adviser blamed the result on “the f—ing Chinese”, an apparent reference to Asian voters in Bennelong turning against Mr Howard.”
Labor will keep this one for the next campaign.
If Rudd actually manages to successfully complete his stated agenda then you would have to put him up there with other Labor leaders. Big ask though.
They need Turbull now, he is the only one with money.
Slackboy # 793
Agree with you on both of your points
The Loan was not going to happen because of the Liberal’s proper pressure in
the House of Reps disclosing Connor had breached Whitlam’s instructions NOT to proceed with looking for funds
Is not it ironic that the $4 billion Loan was to build a pipeline to supply cheap CLEAN gas from the Northwest gas field to Sydney & Melbourne
instead we supply the CLEAN gas to Tokyo consumers
whilst we use less clean electricity
One writer has made a point ALL of us have missed re Howard’s concession speech
ie. Howard took FULL responsibility for the campaign & the loss but NOT
either for the policys (read work choices) NOR concede those policys were rejected
so the Party could move on
ie. Howard was not absolving Costello from work choices and therefore was leaving Costello with the losing baggage of always having to defend them
Bloggers was this policy self denial of the voters by Howard or leaving his “friend”
with a ‘poison pill’ or both ??
And it would be a decent gesture, as the last ever days of Kirribilli in its current desecration approach, that Howard make breakfast for the servants.
(i know i said i was going to bed, but i suddenly felt i must eat again, or for once. loving the callers on 891, talk about exit polls, condemning howard for ethics, laws etc).
Not a blue ragger calling, for once. Maybe one. Glen and co asleep?
And dear old Tom of Toowoomba. Onya!!
The Polls in the next few months will be very interesting and will give Labor some important information.
Without any reason for loyal support for Howard or his government the LNP is nothing but an empty shell trying to find its feet. The only people going to support it in a few months after Rudd establishes himself will be the rusted on LNP supporters, their true base-load vote. We will be able to gauge the real rusted on mindless support the LNP has.
Really and truly, this is life imitating art (again).
Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn had every aspect of the game figured out long ago. If you want to know the dynamics almost certainly at play right now and over the last few days in the Liberal camp, revisit the two episodes of ‘Yes, Minister’, where Hacker bids for and successfully attains the party leadership (Party Games). This line is especially telling:
“The PM’s always hated Ray (Home Secretary and deputy leader). He just hung on long enough to make sure his deputy didn’t get the leadership…”
#
590
Generic Person Says:
November 25th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
No 583
Exactly. Privatising the ABC is politically impossible.
But my response was related to Basil who mused that the ABC should be independent of the government.
There’s no other legitimate way of doing this other than privatising it.
———————————————————————-
Yes and selling it to your boss, eh, caroline ? caroline ovirington that is….
and why did you slap George Newhouse I wonder ?????
No 803
davo, I fail to see how Caroline allegedly slapping Mr Newhouse has anything to do with privatising the ABC.
Liberal voters?
I blame the parents.
How likely is the new Govt to try to get rid of GST – particularly as on a 2PP basis it was rejected by the electorate at the 1998 Election?
Goerge was right on the money about the meanness of spirit infecting the Liberal party of recent times. HoWARd gave these types permission to behave very badly. HoWARd never had a moral compass to lose, he was a man without principles. Ministerial standards and standards of public debate were trashed under Howard. I just hope that Rudd can restore some civillity to Parliament.
Graham, not a hope in my opinion, GST is now firmly here to stay.
Glen Milne in the GG:
YOU have to hand it to John Howard. The man who immortalised himself as “Lazarus with a triple bypass” has reached from just beyond the point of political extinction to achieve his ultimate personal aim; denying Peter Costello his chance to lead the Liberal Party.
There is only one conclusion here; Howard has likely incinerated two generations of Liberal leadership on the bonfire of his own vanity. The most accurate statement the outgoing prime minister made in his concession speech on Saturday night was that he “owed the Liberal Party more than the Liberal Party owed him”.
OH THE JOY OF WATCHING THEM SELF-IMMOLATE!
Hockey is unelectable as leader due to his support for Workchoices, Nelson the same because of his Iraq/oil comments (ironic, considering it was the truth). Not to say the libs won’t choose them though. If they do, it will be an admission that they are in a rebuilding stage and don’t expect to be a serious threat to Rudd.
When is Parliament due to sit again?
Shouldn’t the GG now be called the COP (Carping Opposition Gazette)?
Memo to Kev:
Sack the entire ABC board and management on first day as PM, followed by launching criminal prosecutions on AWB perpetrators.
Watching the Libs at the moment is like watching a man eat his own face.
Only time will tell if they are starting at their chin, or their a**.
And to think they were running the country 4 days ago!
810, not until early next year I would have thought
Oh I forgot, then launch charges for voter fraud over Lindsaygate, then over porkbarrellgate, then Iraqgate, there must still be plenty more gates I havent yet considered. Then build more Jails for ex-libs and nats.
Yes Basil, what’s the point of being in power unless you crush your enemies with your iron fist?
810, it looks as though early Feb is the next sitting if we go on past precedent, I dont think there will be time for an early Dec sitting as the poll will not be declared for another fortnight yet.
molloby
I believe the autopsy reported it was a baseball bat
Something like that molloby, I figure we should be able to knock off few of the rump that is left, then to save energy they can hold their meetings in some small room, a toilet perhaps.
So I was right, the Parliament won’t expire until sometime in early 2011. I suppose it doesn’t matter in a way, with the majority Labor are likely to have, the Libs will be out of office for at least two terms. I think they are terminal. They will never recover from this.
Perhaps the Liberals, if they are serious about regaining credibility, should have Malcolm Fraser as a consultant to advise on how to restore their collective soul.
I could never have imagined myself writing this in November 1975 though.
Mind you, if Gough has forgiven, then who am I not to?
I heard that the Liberal Candidate for Lyndsay hasn’t spoken to her husband since the pamphlet and he had moved out?
Does anyone know if that is correct?
Rudd will be a three term PM, at least. ( If he can avoid hubris – and the world soes not implode) Labor will pick up Liberal marginals at the next election. Downer, Ruddock, Andrews will cause by-elections in their seats within 12 to 18 months. ( They will not be won by Labor). Downer may in fact go very very shortly. The result gives Baillieu a reasonable chance in Victoria ( given that the State election will be held after the next federal election). Also gives O’Farrell a chance – although I’m hearing he may not survive.
S, what a loser, the whole lot of em, I don’t for a moment believe that both her and Jackie were unaware of the whole dirty scam. Took the campaign to a new level of filth, must have been around Howard too long.
Listening to Downer on Insiders yesterday I formed the strong opinion that it is only a matter of time before he pulls up stumps. And I loved his admission that he never thought they could win, so the stories about his wife being overheard were true.
813
S Says:
Watching the Libs at the moment is like watching a man eat his own face.
ROTFLMAO! Beautiful description.
808 Given that GST was so unpopular and nearly cost Howard the 98 Election why would Labor now be so disinclined to change it?
Adam:
I was surprised to see your defence of ageism/adultism the other day – I’d have thought that a man in his fifties would want to end age discrimination whether it’s against 65 year olds or 25 year olds.
GG = Opposition Orifice?
What ever it is called the OZ appears to have commenced the demolition job on Howard’s legacy.
Gough had nothing to forgive Malcolm for. The moment Gough tried to govern in defiance of the Parliament, he put himself on a collision course with the Consitution. Gough may have had a gripe with the lying Kerr but his fight was not with Malcolm.
831, point taken
I thought Libs losing the election and Howard his seat was as good as it gets.
If Abbott gets Opposition leader, I will just totally die of joy.
Oh and a more sober comment – if anyone thinks the Libs are done for, remember when Keating lost in 1996, there was only one ALP government in the nation – NSW. Yet 6 years after that we had won back all the State and Territory governments. And 5 years after that, the Federal.
The Libs are temporarily down and out. As Glen would say – don’t succomb to hubris.
But do enjoy the moment.
Basil F,
My take on the dismissal has always been that Gough made no real attempt to stop it on the fateful day. He just ate lunch at the lodge instead of calling the House into session before the Senate could enact Fraser’s undertaking to Kerr to pass supply. My firm belief is that Gough (ala Howard) fell into the Hubris of thinking the electorate would “maintain the rage” over Kerr’s acting like a monarch and give Fraser the same defeat which they had given to Billy Sneddon for causing the DD a year before.
Fat chance. Fraser’s landslide was all about the economy, stupid. Just as Hawke’s landslide and then Howard’s would be.
Kerr and Fraser split this country into such entrenched divisions that Fraser was unwilling to be as economically conservative as Howard (first elected in Bennelong during the Sneddon election) and other right-wingers wanted to go. Howard’s humiliation is the final chapter in the saga of The Dismissal.
Bonfrire of the inanities?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/25/1195975870395.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
“…As the Liberals drowned their sorrows on Saturday night, one former senior Liberal adviser blamed the result on “the f—ing Chinese”, an apparent reference to Asian voters in Bennelong turning against Mr Howard.”
that comes from the mouth of a former senior Liberal adviser. What a bunch of racist rats they are.
I think some are underestimating Rudd.
He will be tough and very ruthless, anyone else notice his special mention to Faulkner in his victory speech, there must be a lot of public servant bosses sh*tting themselves.
Wouldn’t be surprise to see parliament called to sit as soon as possible, Rudd will hit the ground running hard and most of the legislation will alrady be drawn up and ready.
Nothing like applying the pressure ealry fresh from a big win.
Newspoll boss telling porkie after porkie on Skynews. They got it right!
Yep, it was the Cliffhanger with possibly Team Howard surging to a narrow defeat of Howard. Inbloodycredible!
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s2100462.htm
“TONY EASTLEY: Well, while it was a sombre and dignified exit for the Prime Minister, one supporter who had watched the night disintegrate and saw her hero walk out of the building was certainly having trouble coming to terms with how her fellow Australians had voted.
WOMAN: I don’t want to be an Australian after today. I hate Australia, for Christ’s sake. I hate us. I think we’re despicable. We’re despicable. How could we bloody do…
TONY EASTLEY: Mr Howard is about to make his way out, do you think…
WOMAN: …haven’t even (inaudible). I love this man. This man has given us more than anything and I just hate to think what we’ve done to him. I hate Australia. I’m not Australian.
TONY EASTLEY: A very disappointed supporter last night at the Wentworth Hotel.
For Mr Howard it was a trip back across the bridge and to Kirribilli after making his speech. It might have been an extraordinary night, but it was another ordinary morning this morning along the harbour shores, as again, John Howard took his early morning walk.
He set off around 7.00am but refused any interviews, telling the waiting media pack that he’d said all he had to say last night.”
I’d wondered what Tabitha was up to on the night.
834, Hubris is what killed HoWARd so I think you are right in your warning but I’ll tell you something else. The Liebierals will learn nothing from this. The fact they could have let the divisive HoWARd do what he did in turning Australian against Australian and scapegoating every dispossessed group in Australia with his dog whistling tactics not to mention his complete denial of the scourge of climate change, I would say they they are doomed. They will never come back. There is a hsitoriacl precedent for this The U.A.P. tore itself apart under Menzies (HoWARd’s hero) The only way he got back into office was to learn the lessons of History – HoWARd’s groupies are incapable of doing this.
Hey, it’s not a landslide! You only call it Slide when Howard or Fraser gets swings of this level.
Well, as I’ve said all along, Martin O’s job is to keep his megacorporation clients sweet. What a testiment to Murdoch’s control of the MSM narrative that Martin O can spin this tripe when Newspoll stuffed the final 2PP for the second election in a row, but they’ll just keep bragging about getting the Primary vote right.
Of course, Primary vote should be close (except when you deliberately go for a different sampling strategy). Martin O’s media manipulation is in the 2PP calculation methodology and not rounding to the .5 like Morgan did.
I just heard the new leader of the Business Council of Australia on ABC radio. When it was pointed out to him that their ads had portrayed unionists as thugs, and was asked whether he thought this might now pose difficulties, he said that unions were an integral part of life, and that business had always had to deal with them, and that he didn’t foresee any problems in that area going forward.
It’s a shame they didn’t then ask him to choose his favorite record. I’d guess it is ‘What a difference a day makes’.
844: Hey I heard that too. I wouldn’t ever advocate payback but I’ll tell you something for nothing, it will happen. The BCA are irrelevant anyway. They don’t represent small business. I have never heard them complain about the way big business beats up on small business. Labor would do themselves a huge favor if the introduced decent unconscionable conduct provisions into the TPA to stop AMP / Westfield / Gandel beating up on shopkeepers. Frank Lowy is rich enough.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22820141-5000117,00.html
“Yes, the economy is critical. But so is giving voters a sense of goodness, of community, at a time when we seem to be atomising.”
Nice insight from BoltA. Pity that every Lib policy and handout he supported was designed with the express purpose of creating a Liberal fantasyland of a society of individuals in competition with each other and community replaced with contracts.
Does anyone know if Barbara Bennett is on an AWA? Rudd should take advantage of the lack of unfair dismissal laws to p*ss her off ASAP.
shadenfruede.
Just in answer to a point on an older thread, the Greens wont go a split ticket; too confusing. What they did this time in safe Labor seats is go open ticket, advising people to put Greens one and make your own mind up on your preferences. This works better at keeping their hands clean, gives more respect to the voter, while still leaving a bargaining chip to play the Majors against each other for Upper House preferences. Labor is going to be so far right of centre that people will be looking to the Greens to be the progressives in parliament, not a Labor shadow. And the Greens have a record in the States of voting with the Liberal opposition. In fact, as the Liberals continue to implode, the Greens will slowly take over as the true opposition, which they have been in fact for quite a while.
The Greens and Labor are going to have quite a robust relationship!
Said, Hemingway. THE END.
Off topic and a bit of a side issue….
People dont realise how significant the loss of Mal Brough to Parliament was or how long he has been campaigning….
Apparently it all started several years ago…..there was a tv ad that broke into rugged cowboy music and ended by the voiceover saying…
Come to Mal Brough country.
(Ok I’ll go shall I?) lol
Did anyone else pick up that howards “I owe the liberal party more than the liberal party owes me” was a lift from his hero and partial namesake Winston Churchill’s “I have taken more from alcohol than alcohol has taken from me”?
Why is everyone convinced Peter Dutton is talented? I can’t think of a single memorable thing he’s done in parliament or the ministry.
Noel Pearson has effectively sidelined himself. It wasn’t a smart tactic insulting the new Prime Minister. And the huge swing to Labor in North QLD aboriginal communities would seem to indicate Noel was out of step with his colleagues.
854 – No it was stupid, and that must say something about the man.
Dutton is useless. good riddance. I cant imagine why the Libs would mourn his loss for long.
I think Brough cooked his own goose with welfare to work (if you know Caboolture, you’ll understand why it was a pretty dumb move) – but I can see why the Libs would want him back. He’s certainly one of their better performers.
I too tend to think they’ll need Turnbull’s dough….Its tougher in opposition when you cant get the taxpayers to fund your party’s election campaign.
And learn this well Libs: the anti-union nonsense got you **absolutely nowhere**. The failure of that fear campaign is a defining moment is 21C Australian politics
I dont think that Costello will stay long as a back bencher. He will possibly move into the finance sector where his experience in balancing the budget to within 5 billion dollars will entice the big money offers. Maybe a career in stand up will be more suitable where he can resurrect such hilarious lines such as “I always thought Cascade was a beer Mr speaker “Tapes of obviously false canned laughter could be played in the background .Or perhaps he will follow that well worn path of retiring politicians and become a lobbyist. He could cater to the long lines of persons seeking access to the Liberal Politicians despite the fact that they are facing at least the next decade in opposition as an ill disciplined irrevalent bunch of clowns.Then again I think that Costello will stay a back bencher for a long time until he retires onto his taxpayer funded fully indexed pension.
Nationals leader Mark Vaile will not stand again as party leader.
Front page of Australian on the web
Newspoll tomorrow??
Sorry the habits hard to kick…..
857, do you SERIOUSLY think Costello has ANY idea what it takes to run an economy? For pity’s sake he had a public service of gargantuan proportions to do the hard yards for him in that area. I though he was an economic illiterate whenever I heard him speak. And answer me this: If he was so good at economic management, how is it the Government sector grew on his watch to the largest it has ever been even?
hey 860…perhaps I should not attempt sarcasm.
Liberal leadership issue solved
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Liberal-Party-Leadership_W0QQitemZ320187798110QQihZ01