Federal Coalition. Today’s Liberal leadership contest is of course being amply covered elsewhere. I will say only that the 6-to-1 odds on Brendan Nelson from SportingBet look remarkably attractive from what I’m hearing. Warren Truss is set to take the Nationals leadership unopposed following the withdrawal of Peter McGauran. No by-elections loom at this stage, but I suspect they will be happening sooner or later in Higgins, Mayo, Berowra and perhaps Lyne.
Queensland Liberals. The state Liberal Party has been plunged into a constitutional crisis by a four-all leadership deadlock between incumbent Bruce Flegg and challenger Tim Nicholls. Flegg and his three supporters voted down a leadership spill motion yesterday, prompting state president Warwick Parer to declare he must “do the honourable thing and stand down”. The two groups might end up holding separate party room meetings today, each claiming official status. Nicholls is associated with the Santo Santoro/Michael Caltabiano faction of the Queensland Liberal Party, and is supported in the party room by John-Paul Langbroek (Surfers Paradise), Jann Stuckey (Currumbin) and Steve Dickson (Kawana). Flegg represents the moderate “western suburbs” faction and is supported by Mark McArdle (Caloundra), Ray Stevens (Robina) and Glen Elmes (Noosa), at least for now: the Courier-Mail reports Flegg’s supporters are united by animus towards the Santoro faction, and would be willing to back a candidate other than Flegg to keep Nicholls out.
Western Australian Liberals. It had long been understood that the looming federal election was the only thing preventing a challenge against Liberal leader Paul Omodei, and the talk is that a spill will be on next week. On Tuesday the ABC reported that Omodei was about to be tapped on the shoulder and asked to make way for Vasse MP Troy Buswell. Omodei – a dangerous man to be around at times – today told the media any colleagues who did so would be “very lucky if they don’t get a good right hook, and they’ll be lucky to get out of the room standing up”. Like his Queensland counterpart Tim Nicholls, Buswell is a first-term MP. Meantime, former leader Colin Barnett has announced he will not seek re-election for his seat of Cottesloe at the state election due in February 2009. Barnett has told The West Australian he has thought better of retiring immediately, because it “wasn’t the right thing to do and a lot of people in my electorate want me to stay”. His enemies in the Liberal Party say he’ s only staying to block any move to recruit Julie Bishop to the state party leadership by having her take his seat at a by-election.
Northern Territory ALP. Clare Martin and her deputy Syd Stirling have both pulled up stumps and moved to the back bench. The Northern Territory News reports that leadership rival Paul Henderson delivered Martin a “gentle ultimatum” a few weeks ago. Martin accepted this without demur as she had lost her enthusiasm for the job following the federal government’s intervention into Aboriginal communities. Mutterings first emerged last November that Martin’s inaction in indigenous affairs had cost her the support of the most of the Aboriginal members of caucus, and that a challenge by Henderson would win the support of 10 out of 19 party room members. Martin and Stirling have both vowed to remain in parliament until the election due in mid-2009, so it does not appear we will be treated to by-elections in Fannie Bay and Nhulunbuy.
In late election counting news, Labor’s Jason Young is back in front of Andrew Laming in Bowman, if only by 21 votes. The pattern of voting in 2004 suggests Young has cleared his biggest hurdle now that pre-polls have been counted (mostly if not entirely), and should be able to keep his nose in front on remaining postal (where he has performed strongly so far), absent and provisional votes. In Herbert, Defence Force votes have slashed Labor’s lead from 528 to 36: the outlook appears better for Labor’s George Colbran now those are out of the way, but like Bowman it’s still close enough that anything could happen. Liberal member Peter Dutton’s lately acquired lead continues to widen in Dickson, and the Liberals are home and hosed in La Trobe and Macarthur. The only reason McEwen is not on the list is those votes we were told about which were wrongly sent to Scullin, on which I have heard nothing further. Defence Force votes have cut Labor candidate Damian Hale’s lead over CLP member Dave Tollner in Solomon from 718 votes to 427, but he should still get up unless there’s a surprise lurking in the remaining pre-polls. The trend in Swan contains to favour Liberal candidate Steve Irons, now 136 votes in front, although there will be very little in it either way. Anyone wishing to discuss these results is encouraged to use the dedicated threads linked to in the sidebar.
A couple of other seats worth noting. The Greens camp has been talking up a possible late-count boilover in O’Connor, where Nationals candidate Philip Gardiner could theoretically overtake Labor’s Dominic Rose and surf over Liberal veteran Wilson Tuckey on preferences. At the moment Gardiner is some way behind Rose, 20.42 per cent to 18.37 per cent. It is argued that most of the 9.28 per cent vote that went to various minor candidates will go to Gardiner as preferences, although a good many went straight to Tuckey in 2004. The other question is how many of the 6.68 per cent who voted Greens followed the card and gave their second preferences to the Nationals. If the combined 15.96 per cent from minor parties delivers the Nationals 2.06 per cent more than Labor, Gardiner might be in business. In 2004 there was an 18.8 per cent minor party vote that split 7.8 per cent Labor, 5.7 per cent Nationals and 5.3 per cent, but the Greens were running split-ticket how-to-vote cards as opposed to their direct recommendation to the Nationals this time.
A late-count surprise has been a narrowing of Labor’s margin in Flynn, where postal votes have split over 70-30 in favour of the Nationals. This is because postal voting is a favoured method of voters in isolated rural areas, although the size of the gap is still a surprise. Whether or not the Nationals are still a show depends on whether there are more postals to come. Today’s Courier-Mail states that “postal votes were counted today”, which sounds like it means they were all counted, in which case the remaining 590-vote Labor lead should be enough. Pre-polls have in fact been running quite heavily in Labor’s favour, and absent votes are unlikely to buck the overall trend.
Corangamite is now on the AEC “close seats” list with pre-polls and postals having favoured the Liberals 57-43, cutting the Labor lead from 2217 to 767. However, there should be few if any remaining pre-polls and postals, and Labor did quite a lot better on the uncounted absent and provisional votes in 2004.
There has been no significant progress in Senate counting this week, but it might yet be worth keeping an eye on the Australian Capital Territory. The Liberal vote is clear of a 33.3 per cent quota on 34.1 per cent, which will need to drop at least 1.5 per cent if the Greens are to sneak through for an upset. At the 2004 election it actually increased by 0.22 per cent.
1,082 Comments
Thanks for all the explanations William, and it certainly makes me a bit more optimistic about a few of the close seat contests.
It can be a bit hard telling whether all the postals have been counted in a particular seat. Should I take it that the number for ‘envelopes issued’ doesn’t necessarily mean the total number of ballots to be counted?
Morning William (he who never sleeps). Interesting that Nelson is behind Turnball, I would have thought it would be the other way round.
Also William, what’s your opinion on Buswell? I can hardly imagine he’d be more ineffective than Omodei but I’m struggling to think of any other Liberal Party members in WA who would be strong leaders.
That being said, there’s obviously a lack of talent on both sides of WA politics and they’d both be well cautioned to bring in some new blood at the next election.
Thanks heaps, William,
Can anyone tell me where I could find the specific vote leads in for all close seats? I’ve tried the AEC and ABC.net.
Like many here, I’d like to know how the vote count in Bennelong currently stands. Of course, it’s an academic exercise whether McKew wins it now or very soon at a By-election, but sweeter if it’s now.
Abbott has said the Liberals won’t be back the Lodge “for a while”. With him threatening to de-stabilise the new Liberal leader before he is even elected, they won’t be if Abbott has anything to do with it.
On ya Tone.
Should be good. If, as expected, Nelson wins (the Liberal Party’s version of Simon Crean as oppoition leader) then both Abbott and Turnbull will spend this term undermining him and each other.
Should set Labor up in office for the next decade and a half.
I see that Costello didn’t attend yesterday’s last supper with Howard. Costello must really loathe and detest him.
Mr. Squiggle,
“1) 1 in 4 Australians are born overseas- exactly what should they apologise for? (sorry for coming here? building a new life, surviving the civil wars I left behind?)”
Sorry, I am a naturalized citizen born and I have no problems in saying sorry to the indigenous Australians.
Julie @6 Ditto for me on saying Sorry to the first Aussies.
Just checked my bet site, but alas no Opp. Leader option to put a fiver on Nelson.
However, they are offering “any other Party” except Labor in 2010 @ $4.50.
Sorry has different meanings. I caught up with someone recently who I hadn’t seen for a long time. She told me her husband died. I said “I’m sorry”, as you do in these situations..
That doesn’t mean I was taking personal responsibility for his death
Some bloke who was at Sydney Uni. same time as Abbott was telling tales on the Blogocracy site about what a wild man he was during his years there.
Abbott had a small mob which followed him around most lunch times as he shouted at apathetic students through his bullhorn outside the Library.
Abbott is the Coalition’s Mark Latham and will increasingly reap a similar whirlwind for his colleagues.
hemingway @ 4 try:
virtual tally room:
vtr
bennelong> is here.
Look at the links:
Two Candidate Preferred By Polling Place
Declaration Vote Scrutiny Progress
for detailed breakdowns of postal, pre-poll counts etc.
Thanks for the site William.
..sorry for not checking html more closely…not enough coffee yet…hope this is ok
vtr
bennelong is here.
Look at the links:
Two Candidate Preferred By Polling Place
Declaration Vote Scrutiny Progress
for detailed breakdowns of postal, pre-poll counts etc.
Thanks for the site William.
Agree William, those odds on Nelson look extremely tempting.
The votes in McEwen that were sent to Scullin will be counting this afternoon
Labor won the election cos they rule.
Liberal lost the election cos they suck.
Re 8,
Spiros Says:
Since the E*L*E*C*T*E*D government is going to say “sorry” in consultation with what the Aboriginals want (wording/place, etc.), you are by default taking personal responsibility like it or not. We finally have a government in place who will do what is right so I don’t mind that naysayers like you are along for the ride. You haven’t got a choice in the matter now. Cheers
I would expect Turnbull to be elected today -although the SMH reports that Nelson is gaining the support of conservatives in the party so he could benefit from this. Also Tony Jones said last night on Lateline that some Liberals are disillusioned with Turnbull’s very high profile media campaign and I imagine some of them probably won’t like him abandoning Howard’s positions on key issues and there may be a backlash against Turnbull due to both these factors and Nelson could be the beneficiary. On the other hand, Nelson’s limitless ambition and opportunism could be an off putting factor to many MPs and this may benefit Turnbull
The Age today quoted Liberal sources as saying Abbott was only capable of mustering up 4 votes for his leadership bid. LOL. Wonder who was planning to vote for him
This may be an interesting assessment of Howard’s legacy. If Turnbull wins, it could be viewed as somewhat of a repudiation of Howard and may also signify that there is a significant bloc of the party who disagreed with his policies but who kept their silence during his government. The downside for Turnbull is that if he does win, he’ll be relentlessly undermined by Abbott and the other Howardbots in the Liberal Party. I suspect he’ll be the next Andrew Peacock -always the bridesmaid but never the bride (in other words he’ll never be PM).
I suspect we’ll see Abbott re-positioning himself to try and look more moderate over the next few years (not with any sincerity but similar to the way did that Howard did in 1995 when he pretended to repudiate his past positions on social policy) so that he’ll emerge as a competent leadership contender in the future. Of course if he’s ever elected, he’ll go back to being the right wing ideological zealot he always has been
The AFR this morning seemed to tip the Lib leadership election decidedly in Nelson’s favor. I’m beginning to suspect that, while he can talk a good game, Turnbull simply doesn’t have the numbers. The Libs may be dazed & confused right now, but that hasn’t sent the majority of them into the self-examination needed for radical change. Nelson, to all appearances, is moderate, but I can’t imagine him as the bulldog Opposition leader that the Libs are going to need to constantly harry the Government…
Will Malcolm get a shadow Treasury portfolio as a consolation prize?
I think Victoria or even Queensland are better chances for the Greens than the ACT. They just need lots of BTL leaking against stated party preferences, whereas the ACT would require a big and unexpected bias in postals/absentees/etc.
There was talk at one time of Barnett not retiring early so he could make a comeback. That’s how bad the libs are these days. This Julie Bishop as state leader thing was never going to happen before, and certainly not now. Don’t wish that on us.
The Queensland Liberal Party woes look like only getting worse with Santoro’s faction trying to get Nicholls up as Leader to give themselves another vote on State Council when Parer resigns in a couple of weeks and Flegg threatening Legal action against Parer’s attempts to break the Parliamentary Leadership deadlock.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22839805-5006786,00.html
Julie @15, I read Spiros as siding with you.
I suspect Nelson as the most moderate, and “sacrificable” without destroying the Party in the process. Abbott is the obvious one to ’sacrifice’ in the “death seat” of Opposition leader in a first term govt honeymoon, but he’d probably take most of the Party “image” down with him.
If Turnbull is their best bet for 2010, they’ll save him for later. (Possibly others will also wait in the wings until the *heats* off and memories have faded, eg Downer) I suspect we may even see a number of Opp Leaders, for the first year or two, while others regroup, and then the *true* leadership challenge happens about 12-18 mths out from the next election.
For those interested in a wager just for fun on the Lib leadership, Lord Nelson is paying $9.80 at Betfair. “Kiss me, Hardy.”
18. Will Malcolm get a shadow Treasury portfolio as a consolation prize?
Traditionally the deputy leader of the Liberals gets to chose their own portfolio, which has inevitably been treasury. It will be interesting to see what Bishop chooses.
Dave -
Since Malcolm is the Once and Future King of the Libs, Bishop had better choose very carefully.
You know the rule: If you strike the King, you must kill him.
Being from WA and apparently winning the deputy position based on fundraising ability, is there any chance Bishop would choose Trade or somthing along those lines? In order to to make herself more attractive to the businesses providing the fundraising?
Possibly even Environment (to keep the miners happy)?
Graham Young puts the Santo camp’s ploys under the spotlight. Might I add that Joh Bjelke Petersen used a casting vote to keep himself in power about 18 months into his term when he was viewed as a hopeless performer too.
* There is a convention in leadership ballots that the leader not use their casting vote. Bit hard to work out where they got this one from. The only time I can remember a leader being in a position of needing his casting vote was John Gorton in 1971. Gorton refused to use his casting vote, and was widely derided at the time. I don’t think it creates a precedent, but if it does, Nicholls ought to be wary, because the successful challenger was Billy McMahon, arguably Australia’s worst Prime Minister
* The Liberal Party State Council can change the party’s constitution to give the Party President a casting vote in a tied parliamentary leadership ballot. Only state conventions can change the constitution, and there is a process that needs to be gone through first, including consultation and notice provisions. It would be a huge philosophical change for the party organisation to be able to dictate to the parliamentary wing, raising the spectre of the “bad old days” in the ALP when Arthur Calwell and Gough Whitlam had to wait outside their party’s executive for their instructions. “Never in our party” has always been the Liberals’ response to that.
* Bruce Flegg will be unable to vote in any State Council ballot becase of his “conflict of interest”. This would indeed be a breach of precedent if Flegg was prevented from voting on this matter. If this were taken seriously, then Warwick Parer should also be excluded because he obviously has a conflict of interest too, because this is about expanding his power.
http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/002592.html
Sorry means you wish it hadn’t happened.
Whether or not you are personally responsible.
It is what decent and caring people say when they feel for another’s suffering or sorrow.
This issue for me epitomises all that stinks about the Howard regime and will be the historical lens that future generations view us through, just as we look back in horror on slavery, genocide, and the invasion and destruction of other indigenous cultures around the world.
Howard’s refusal to apologise to aboriginal people is the greatest travesty of all, as it involves our own people that he was meant to govern on behalf of. – it outweighs AWB, in my opinion.
It shows a complete lack of humanity. And we allowed it to happen by voting this man into office 4 times..
To those of you who still support his position, you are fast becoming relics of a dying age.
The Qld Libs remind me of a factionalised co-op board I once had the misfortune to sit on. (Sad to say it was a v.large organisation).
Board of 8. Rival faction declared unannounced spill against Chairman. Claimed chairman couldn’t vote on his own position. Declared their man elected 4-3. Walked out of meeting claiming power. ‘Old’ chair had this ruse quickly overturned in court, but then to keep board alive had to try governing with his casting vote on every issue to claim a majority, as the rival faction refused to attend meetings.
A stressful farce at the time, but in retrospect quite an amusing example of ego above entity.
You can get 9-1 on Nelson at Betfair.
I think that the Libs will actually have some difficulty with their shadows. Pyne’s elevation to the Ministry was done grudgingly and there isn’t much talent below him. At the same time they’ve lost quite a few front line troops, either at the ballot box or by retirement since.
Spiros @ 8
I take your meaning to be in support of an apology – I think Julie may have misread you there.
It appears Spiros was echoing Howard’s long stated reason for NOT apologising to me.
If he was suggesting an apology he chose an unfortunate set of words.
To me, saying “sorry” is more about saying “I respect you” – at least in this context. The damage done by refusing to say sorry was significant. Even if saying sorry doesn’t actually change much, the removal of the refusal is a significant and symbolic step forward – and probably more important than the actual sorry itself.
Peter in Sydney,
Many thanks for posting the sites on voting count, mate. ‘Onya!
RA
I took Spiros to mean that just because he didn’t cause her grief personally, it was no reason NOT to say sorry. Maybe I’m confused.
Anyway, point is, it must be done.
Truss will need support
Hewson is saying Costello is biding his time to become leader before the next election. If that is true, they can kiss 2010/2011 good by too, because Cossie was the master mind of WorkChoices and any linking to the past will go against them.
DavidS: The Nats need life support. And for Vaile to say the Nats need a generational change and for them to install an older person in as their leader is ridiculous. At least the Libs have younger people who are willing to take on the position.
The fact that the Nats don’t hold O’Connor is a clear indication that they aren’t worth mentioning in WA politics.
Also, Carps actually appears to be trying to clean out the WA ALP – if so, more power to him! If he succeeds, the ALP will retain Government over here.
Tabitha #14,
Kindly leave thinking people (i.e. those who post intelligently on both sides at Pollbludger) alone, and go bother propeller.com for a while.
Doe’s anyone know if Wilson Tucky is in danger on preferences in O’ Conner in WA. I heard that every party except FF put him last. Is it true?. God I hope so! William your from WA do you have any insight?
Saying sorry: In a broader sense, the Government of Australia is an entity that continues in an unbroken chain over the decades, with the baton passed from one to the other.
It is perfectly reasonable for the Government of Australia today to apologise for the actions of an earlier incarnation of this Government.
Flegg to resign, with conditions
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22841022-29277,00.html
I am astonished that Brendan Nelson is even remotely likely to win this leadership ballot. The guy is a lightweight poser – a bit of meaningless fluff. And I don’t mean to be height-ist but he just doesn’t have the physical presence to be a leader, in any event.
Still, the party could do Turnbull a huge favour and let Nelson’s mediocrity burn brightly for a year or so.
Looks like Tabitha (14) has jumped ship and become an ALP supporter. Amazing what a good electoral thrashing can do.
Still no word from the delightful Isabella though. Crawled off somewhere to lick the wounds no doubt.
Howards’ refusal was far more symbolic gesture. It allowed the bigots to wear that symbolic refusal like a Swastika as a symbol of national pride.
I visited Canada, a couple of years ago, and did the tour of their Parliament House, and was surprised to find out their Senate composition includes 5 Senate seats appointed for life for Indigenous Canadians: 3 for First Nations representatives, and 2 for Inuit peoples.
Their Senate is not as constitutionally powerful as ours is of course, but still I remember thinking how interesting it would be if our Indigenous peoples, ended up with “balance-of-power” seats in our Senate.
Such a proposal in referendum I would think is much more solid, than just a few meaningless words in the Constitution Preamble. I would vote Yes with pride.
Rain – a good idea, but such a constitutional amendment would have less than a zero chance of success.
Yeah i’m surprised turnbull has gone out on a limb so early on. how many opposition leaders will the libs burn through b4 they put forward a serious one. should be good entertainment of the next 18 months or so. Question is who are the darkhorses waiting in the wings?
Lots of sad and sorry looking faces in Wagga – I’m lovin’ it!
If the Nats don’t amalgamate with the Libs soon, they’ll be kaput within two elections. Warren Truss as leader will only speed up the process.
Also on the Nats:
Some may have read the article linked below. It’s written by Dr Troy Whitford, lecturer in politics & history at CSU Wagga. Whitford is also a director of The Page Research Centre, the National Party’s “think-tank”: how’s that for an oxymoron!
Whitford has some good ideas on reviving the old dog, but he certainly isn’t calling for amalgamation.
“New leader must fight Libs and ALP”:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22822679-7583,00.html
Whitford on the Nats: “There is an intellectual vacuum in the party that needs addressing”. You don’t need to be Einstein there, pal.
Rain, if you look at the composition of the NZ parliament I think that would interest you. They have an allotted ‘M?ori electorate’ which allows for their continued participation in the parliament.
Of course their opinion is varid over a range of policies, and I think they’re generally pretty socially conservative. Definately a very interesting system to look at.
Forget the left and right, just close your eyes and imagine Abbott as the prime minister; to be blunt, without Howard Abbott is nothing.
William: The ALP lead in Herbert has increased to 108 votes – check the aec site.
Do we know for sure these supposed missing 3000 votes in McEwen actually exist? Labor would need just about every one of them to overturn Fran Bailey’s lead: not at all likely!
Prediction about Turnball I heard from a spin doctor on ABC Radio this morning: he will win the Liberal leadership AND self destruct in 12 months. Tony Abbott waits to pounce LOL
In small rural booths where there was no Green htv.s given out the evidence is that their preferences go all over the place (same for Families First). Tuckey looks secure. I hope Flynn does not turn out to be a replay of Hinkler in 2001 which was very disappointing.
The QLD Libs are an absolute laughing stock.
Tim Nicholls is just a puppet for Santo Santoro and Bill O’Chee. He can’t even convice 4 of his colleagues that he is a worthy leader.
And two proxies pulled out of his back pocket, IIRC.
Will Rudd take on the foreign affairs portfolio? McMullan has been mentioned; McClelland is a bit on the nose.
Rudd would do a good job cleaning up the mess left by his old sparring partner, Dolly the Sad Panda.
Has a PM ever done Foreign as well? Interesting thought but far too much foreign travel, surely, when his stated No1 priority is “working families” ..
Bob McMullan for Foreign.
ABC Radio says Bob Debus and John Faulkner will be promoted, Laurie Ferguson dropped, Combet/Shorten/Maxine become parliamentary secretaries: rumours as yet, nothing official.
Fagin: I certainly hope not. Sure Rudd would be good in it, but he has a lot on his plate. The work of the PM is far more demanding than Leader of the Opposition. News Ltd has an article with Crean being quiet about the prospect of taking on the FA role. Time will tell, but Rudd can’t take on the role.
The new and progressive direction that Turnbull has layed out for his party of right wing reactionaries should include a name change. The Hedgehog Party is my suggestion.
The Prime Minister’s job is surely too big these days to take on another portfolio, let along one as time consuming as Foreign Affairs.
I’m hoping for Bob McMullan as well – maybe John Faulkner as an alternative.
Don’t FA ministers spend a very large amount of time OS?
Interesting that Costello and Downer missed the farewell barbie yesterday. Lets hope that Costello was busy putting the finishing touches on “The Costello Diaries” … in store for Christmas !
Does anyone know the record number for women ministers ?. You would have to think that Gillard, Wong, Roxon, Macklin, Lundy, McLucas & Plibersek will give that a nudge.
If Fergie’s gone, that’s a step in the right direction. Jenny George is far more deserving for an ex-ACTU Prez, and she’s never had a real shot.
Also, just having a few high profile inner cabinet women is not good enough. Keating’s right that Labor’s women have got the right stuff. (I know, I know…..Reba Meagher…..ugh!)
Faulkner is such a powerhouse. Even in a opposition he made bureaucrats squirm during Senate estimates.
What’s happened in Flynn is similar to Maranoa, another big seat with a lot of solid Nats rurals. In Maranoa, the Nats got 62% of ordinary votes, but 79% of postals.
Johnny was perfectly happy when the Japanese government apologised for something that happened 60+ years ago (under a different regime), but when it came to doing the same for the Aboriginals he was entirely hypocritical. Good riddance rodent.
Landeryou says that Faulker will get defence and that McClelland will keep Foreign Affairs. Crean would then presumably be left with trade. I don’t know how Landeryou knows these things, but he frequently does.
I reckon the aec stats per seat are interesting but useless to work out winners as we do not know how many (if any) postal & pre poll votes are left to count per seat
because there is no pre polled total number of votes cast per seat or no postal total number of votes cast per seat…is it possible to assess how/who will win any of these close seats ?
I reckon Cossie will work out, as the legacy gets pissed on daily by his own team, that any comeback plans arent worth bothering with.
No Ron Brown, we won’t know for sure until all the votes are counted. I’d say Labor is a good chance in at least 2-3 of the close seats.
No Costello can’t come back from here. It’s the end for him. If people didn’t think he was gutless before… they will now.
Seems if the reports are correct Rudd has opted to minimise noses out of joint with a promise of promotion to the real ministry for newcomers, wise move in terms of internal party harmony.
Only 20 votes in it in Bowman! ALP ahead.
Ron Brown @ 68
I share your frustration, Ron.
Perhaps only the party scrutineers are to be able to say what’s really happening?
Never say Never LTEP, there was no-one more reviled in the late 20’s and early 30’s in Britain within the Conservative Party then Winston Churchill and look how that turned out.
For frustration, see senate.
At least they’re counting HoR.
So all Costello needs is for Angela Merkel to annex the Sudentenland and he’s back in business.
ESJ #75,
True, but remember that Stanley Bruce barely shoed his face around UAP conferences through the 1930s….
re postal & pre poll total votes in play – thanks re its in “declaration vote scrutiny
progress”
Re: Costello’s lack of courage.
Dr. John Hewson finally ended the “gentle” metaphors about ticker, guts or whatever. He said Costello didn’t have the balls. Good call, Doc.
You’d think I could spell S u d e t e n l a n d by now.
I think Labor will win Corangamite, Solomon, Flynn, Herbert and Bowman but lose Swan and Dickson. I think that makes 85.
Channel 10 news says ministry announced–i’ll switch to skynews.
Rudd on Sky Online Live now
” I think that makes 85.”
As a PB regular, Im shocked to discover Adam is more optimistic than LTEP
Tend to agree. 85 was my pick, so here’s hoping. Whats the prize again?
Well I did say ‘at least 2-3′. I feel more confident today, with reports that most of the postals counting has been done.
Nico, do you have a link the the Sky feed?
Bookies do NOT make a mistake as large as 6 to 1 odds Nelson in a 2 HUMAN race
Clearly turnbull must have it tied up
thought Nelson would be easier to Labor to beat in 2010 seeing the Labor margin will be only about 1.5% ?
Colbran pulling ahead in Herbert as we speak.
Ch 10 news was a squib.
All they know is that new cab members are Faulkner, Eliot, O’Connor and K.Ellis
Out are Lundy, McLucas, Fergusen, and O’Brien
Cabinet Portfolios will not be announced until after meeting this arvo
That isnt cabinet, thats the ministry.
no way that Ellis, O’Connor and Eliot will be in Cabinet!!
Verbal #90,
Why not? Ellis in Adelaide has been a very effective Labor presence there – lifted their vote handsomely. The others I don’t know that well, but they are probably of the same calibre as her.
Flash @46, LTEP et al
Such Consitutional amendments for ATSI power would have zero chance, but was interesting pie-in-the-sky ideal to ponder.
The main difference with the other C’wlth countries with Upper Houses on the Westminster system, is that for some reason Australia’s was set up to have much more *real* power. Greatly irritated successive govts on both sides of the political divide ever since. And Aussies refuse to change it, being historically reluctant to *change* anything.
Gives Australia another unique-in-the-world feature, along with compulsory and preferential voting – a powerful Senate.
In theory, a great idea of checks-and-balances. In practice, its been a royal pain-in-the-proverbial!
Now we have someone like Nick X — its just such a typical quintessential Aussie sense-of-humour joke, that I burst out laughing when I saw the probable Senate results
I suppose in worst-case-scenario, I could live with the concession of banning pokies nationwide in return for other important things, but I couldn’t stop laughing anyway!! *chuckle* and I guess being positive, a big improvement on Harradine! But South Ozzies? Just one question – *why?*
Faulkner will be in Cabinet, the other three in outer portfolios. All good choices. I’m sorry for Laurie, he’s a fine bloke, and shares my enthusiasm for obscure election statistics, but not ministerial talent in the current company.
guess ALL Labor supporters are lucky there ARE 80 seats in the bag guaranteeing a Labor win with 9 doubtful !!
instead of 75 in the bag & 14 doubtful
I reckon this is THE BRIGHT SIDE
I will be shattered if O’Brien is out. I was so looking forward to Kerry O’Brien interviewing Kerry O’Brien.
She’s only been in for one term, is very young, and has zero life experience outside of student politics and federal politics. Plus her high profile surely has a lot to do with being an attractive young woman. Those are some good reasons.
I’m not saying she doesn’t have ability, but why shouldn’t she have to do the hard yards like everyone else?
because the 4 that have gone out were all sub-cabinet ministers, and I doubt (though I am happy to be wrong) that there will be room in the major portfolios for those people, especially given that most of the major portfolios are already, really, in the bag.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Ellis has lots of talent and would be a great asset in Cabinet, but I just don’t think that its happened just yet.
Anyway, I was just clarifiying that we really only know about the Ministry at this point, not the cabinet (to my knowledge anyway). Lots of people use the terms interchangably, and they aren’t!
How come Arch Bevis survived?
Rain, the US system also gives the Senate a great deal of power – arguably, the Senate has more power there than the HoR, as the US Senate approves presidential appointments and treaties.
I didn’t even know who Kate Ellis was before visiting this site. She probably has as much experience as Peter Garrett in a parliamentary/political context.
Faulkner is a no-brainer, as is Wong.
Flash @ 56 Gough Whitlam was both PM and Foreign Affairs minister.
LTEP, if you think Faulkner and Wong are “no brainers” then you are an even bigger fool than I already thought. They are two of the smartest people you will ever meet. (Or in your case, not meet).
#102 I took LTEP to mean they were assured of spots. If not, I’m with Adam.
Adam, I mean ‘no-brainers’ as in there’s no doubt they should be in the Ministry. I have briefly met both.
Adam: I think LTEP was meaning its a no brainer for them to get promoted, not that they have no brains.
If the Libs choose Brendan Nelson over Malcolm Turnbull their ratings will drop by several points. Not the least of his problems is that he is so dour. Hde has nothing like the charisma of Malcolm. He will only be a stop gap until Malcolm steps in those shoes a year or so down he track. Malcolm however will be a breath of fresh air and exactly what the Liberal part needs for renewal. He will be a formidable Opposition leader and keep Kevin on his toes. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Coalition ratings remain the same of even rise if Malcolm gets the job. He really is the only possibility.
I see Antony is now predicting 85-63-2 which is exactly what I predicted for weeks prior to the election(except I allowed for the possibility of an additional independent, reducing the Coalition to 62) plus the 53-47. If you are in politics long enough, you get to read these things.
Here’s another prediction:- if Malcolm gets the job he will give Kevin a hell of a run for his money at the next election.
Adam, I beleive LTEP thought that the decisions to include them were so clear and so compelling that the decision was a “no-brainer”.
The decision to include them, not the people themselves.
Adam, “no brainers” means that LTEP agrees with you !
I think it was in the sense that they were obvious candidates for promotion, Adam.
Penny Wong is sensational and I look forward to having her represent South Australia in the Rudd Labor government.
“If Fergie’s gone, that’s a step in the right direction. Jenny George is far more deserving for an ex-ACTU Prez, and she’s never had a real shot. ”
The Ferguson that is out is L, not M.
He means their going to get in ie”no brainers”
its not only obvious thats what he meant it’s a “no brainer”
6 people and counting who don’t think LTEP can explain/stand up for him/herself. I was first though.lol
OK, I retract my comment. LTEP reverts to being merely the fool I thought he/she was before, not a higher grade of fool.
Arch Bevis, Kate Lundy, Kerry O’Brien, Jan McLucas, Laurie Ferguson, Bob McMullin are OUT.
A fun game for those playing at home – match your fave ALP MPs with their new Ministries!
Cabinet Ministers
Prime Minister
Treasurer
Minister for Transport and Regional Services
Minister for Foreign Affairs
Minister for Trade
Minister for Finance and Administration
Minister for Health and Ageing
Attorney-General
Minister for Defence
Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources
Minister for Immigration and Citizenship
Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry
Minister for Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs
Minister for Education, Science and Training
Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Minister for the Environment and Water Resources
Minister for Human Services
Outer Ministers
Minister for Local Government, Territories and Roads
Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer
Special Minister of State
Minister for Ageing
Minister for Justice and Customs
Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts
Minister for the Arts and Sport
Minister for Veterans’ Affairs
Minister Assisting the Minister for Defence
Minister for Small Business and Tourism
Assistant Minister for Immigration and Citizenship
Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation
Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Indigenous Affairs
Minister for Community Services
Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Women’s Issues
Minister for Vocational and Further Education
Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service
Minister for Workforce Participation
Assistant Minister for the Environment and Water Resources
Bevis did get the bullet according to ABC.
Adam @ 114
Not a good day for the ALP in Canberra then!
I was around yesterday and came back after a meeting to find that something I had written circa 50 comments above had been misinterpreted…..
Does anybody have the full list of names?
LTEP, what have done to Adam to make him so narky, by the way. (”Or in your case, not meet.”) – Just a little petty there perhaps Adam?
Adam, I shall cry myself to sleep tonight knowing I don’t have your approval.
Penny Wong for FA
Penny Wong for FA, I hope.
Could Rudd afford to have a Senator out of the coutnry for long periods? WOuld make the votes kinda tough.
Had the tradition of pairing been re-instated yet?
FA = Finance and Administration or Foreign Affairs?
Penny Wong 4 defence
There seems to have been some surprise about the extent to which postals have favoured the Conservatives. I’m confused – can I ask you pseph experts a few questions?
Have the postals been more favourable in this election than previously?
If “no” how come the seat estimates keep getting revised down – wouldn’t the predicitive models factor in the known postal bias?
If “yes” then how come?
Did the Libs put a huge amount of effort into getting people to go postal or is there something fishy here?
Sorry will be forthcoming from Rudd and Turnbull. Many others will support this sentiment and guess what? The sky won’t fall in.
Sorry, as an issue was, and is 100% Howard.
Howard’s non-Sorry for the Stolen Generation goes much more deeply than just this issue. There are countless occurrences of this reactionary behaviour throughout his entire public career.
It’s tied up in his inability to ever accept a Progressive or Left point of view as having merit. His knee-jerk reaction is to oppose the Left then tries to defend his position. Opposing arguments are of no consequence to him. He puts on his tin ear to opposition but proudly and defiantly uses semantics and rhetoric to appeal to, and stimulate, the ugly and base in too many of us.
The Stolen Generation, torture, the unemployed, ethnic mutual respect (racial tolerance), single mums, the rewriting of history, asylum seekers, climate change (he didn’t believe it for a minute), the homeless… it’s a long list.
To be fair, I can recall that he buckled early in his PMship. And then it wasn’t a buckle. Tens of thousands of refugees fleeing “ethnic cleansing” were offered temporary asylum in Australia. If you remember, JH opposed this vehemently and passionately for quite a while, but it was the constant press coverage of our “appalling national lack of sympathy” (and a quiet word from his media advisors!) that caused this huge reversal. He then announced, with much fanfare, “Operation Safe Haven”. And was completely unashamed! Gobsmacking!
This was probably the last time it happened. He became more sure of himself as the years went by and made an artform of the dog whistle.
But just enough Australians have just woken up.
Wong for Climate Change apparently
Martin B @111
Thanks for that correction, although I’m disappointed.
Albert F, I think the postals are running slightly lower than they did for the Libs at the past election (very slightly).
However, there’s a lot more of them so they make a bigger impact.
LTEP, Adam, enough. Try to leave the personal baggage at home, people.
Regarding the ministries, here’s a few picks of mine:
1. Treasury – Swan will keep it.
2. Foreign Affairs – Given the spectacular job Penny Wong did during the election campaign, I’ll take a punt and call FA for her.
3. Minister for Health – Nicola Roxon’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
4. Minister for the Environment – Garrett won’t keep it after his stuffups during the campaign. I think that he’ll get Arts and Culture instead (A&C to be hived off from Communications). Not sure who will go to Environment, though.
…and Treasurer, AG, Customs, Trade, Works, Education and a bucketload more. That was just nuts. Is it any wonder it eventually ended in tears?
http://www.alp.org.au/people/index.php?task=ps&type=shadows&state=&keywords=
that is a list of the shadows.
IMO, Tanner has FA, Wong is my tip for FACSIA
Skynews banner says Debus is IN.
Warren Snowden for a junior ministry, Sky says. Prepare to bored rigid. He is known around Aboriginal communities in the NT as “the white rabbit” in that he just sort of pops his head up here, there and everywhere, looking slightly bewildered, and doing little else of note.
I suspect Plibersek will get FACSIA.
Can anyone explain Justine Elliot? I don’t get it… I didn’t realise she was a particularly strong performer.
Tanner will keep Finance. Do a good job too.
damn it, Ruddie is already costing me money…. the share market is under performing the other major market by 3% this week already ….
Plibersek is definitely geting a facial
Albert F, the ABC computer predicted Labor would win 86 seats on election night, even though Labor were ahead at the time in 89. Some of us got carried away with election night results; postals always favour the Tories. It’s still disappointing to see Labor leads turned around by postals, but that’s life.
Mathew – I suspect Garrett will keep the enviroment – he was an liability during the election – but is not so vunerable now the ALP is in govt.
Warren Snowdon and Justine Elliot have come from the clouds. I don’t know why you’d put Snowdon in unless he’s to be Minister for Indigenous Affairs – and I don’t know that even that is a good idea.
Elliot must have some sort of regional-based portfolio.
Kate Ellis on the front bench. *Sighs contentedly*
I’ve missed your posts Dovif.
There is still time to get “postals” in – as long as its date stamped before 24 November you can get them in by 7 December. Just need a franking machine really.
Peter Garrett has interesting plans for Arts, including a droit de suite for Aboriginal art. That is when an Aboriginal painting sells a proportion goes to the artist or the artist’s family. He should get Aboriginal Affairs and Arts. Bob Debus might get Environment. He’s very familiar with it, failing that Attorney General. I doubt if Penny Wong, of the Left, no matter how fabulous she is, will get Foreign Affairs.
Albert F #142,
In that case, I certainly hope he wises-up in a hurry. He was a frontman, after all – you’d think that he knew how to handle the press by now…. (mutter grumble).
FACSIA is apparently set to be broken up. Plibersek to get Family and Community Services, possibly Garrett to get Indigenous Affairs.
Macklin to go back to Education, now that Smith appears to have been promoted?
dovif, hang in there in the markets. There’s some superb buying right now.
AIM,CRK,IMP,GRK etc etc
Prime Minister – Rudd
Treasurer – Swan
Minister for Transport and Regional Services – M. Ferguson
Minister for Foreign Affairs – Crean
Minister for Trade – McClelland
Minister for Finance and Administration – Tanner
Minister for Health and Ageing – Roxon
Attorney-General – Debus
Minister for Defence – Fitzgibbon
Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources – Evans
Minister for Immigration and Citizenship – Burke
Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry – Elliot
Minister for Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs – Plibisek Minister for Education, Science and Training – Smith
Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations – Gillard
Minister for the Environment and Water Resources – Albanese
Minister for Human Services – Macklin
Thats my cabinet list, but its wrong, because Wong isnt in it, I just don’t know who they will bump to fit her in. Mackiln is the obvious choice, but they won’t give her DHS, wo where would they put her… interesting, I wait with baited breath!
AAP reporting McMullan has been dropped? Surely, surely not.
Interestingly, now Broadbent is recording a swing to him in McMillan.
Rain @ 92 re:Mr XBut South Ozzies? Just one question – *why?*
Quite easy: X is the quintessential non-politician. Yes: he has stunts; but he is way more than a single issue poli.
As well as no-pokies he is big on states rights [the workchoices high court decision was the reason that he decided to switch to fed. politics] and water resources.
The fact that SA is at the end of the Murray Darling sewer and that the major parties did not focus on this during the campaign was a reason that he got many votes.
Debus would be a good Foreign Minister actually. He is very urbane and mixes easily with all sorts. Not sure if Kevin Rudd wants to give it to someone on the Left though. Anthony Albanese will certainly want Environment but may not get it.
EdwardStJohn
Ashame to admit it, voted with Ruddie, Coward’s use by date was the 90s he just did not know it
Verbal #149,
Good god, that waffler Crean as FA Minister? Shoot me now, please. I’m thinking that given the importance of education in Rudd’s election platform, Science and Training will be rolled into it, all under Stephen Smith.
Dario@133. Gough only ever took on Foreign Affairs when he was PM, with the exception of the first 2 weeks when so much legislation was produced. That initial period is often called the Duumvirate – Whitlam and Barnard – though Gough tells me it was really a Trumvirate because “The Governor-General was sitting at the end of the table signing it all”.
No, Whitlam was FM as well as PM well into 1973, not just during the duumvirate.
Neilbris, I felt too that Kevin Rudd would be by far the best for Foreign Minister if he can combine the two jobs.
Whitlam and Barnard were Ministers for Everything during that amazing period.
Yes, Whitlam was FM until November 1973.
ABC also reporting McMullan is out. Sorry to see that.
ABC says Garrett has environment, but Penny Wong has Climate Change.
So maybe the Latham diaries about McMullan being a notorious leaker are right?
Maybe he leaked to the wrong person about Dear Leader?
ABC says Faulkner Special Min. of State
The ABC will be streaming both the ministry announcement and the Liberal leadership announcement at their website.
Yes I’m sorry to see McMullan out too. The others were duds. All the newcomers are good value.
Dovif,
As a friend of mine said, he made a lot of money under Howard has cashed it in and is now waiting for the good buying opportunities after a year or two of Labor to make more money.
Stayed too long? Unfortunately to have the ego to want it in the first place you probably find it hard to believe its time to go. I dont think history will show its a sin peculiar to Howard only.
Ed St. J
If what you say is true about McMullan, fair enough. But still a loss of competence and experience.
Adam, read my post again – I said “Gough only ever took on Foreign Affairs when he was PM, with the exception of the first 2 weeks”. The critical words are “with the exception”. During the first 2 weeks Gough and his Deputy were ministers for everything. Beyond that he only kept Foreign Affairs.
Edward, your friend is what’s commonly known as a sore loser. That’s what all the sore losers are saying.
163 [So maybe the Latham diaries about McMullan being a notorious leaker are right?
Maybe he leaked to the wrong person about Dear Leader?]
Don’t get too excited ESJ, it’s more likely McMullan will be the Leader of the House and flog the Libs tactically in the parliament.
McMullan would also make an excellent Speaker, but I imagine Jenkins or Price will get it. (Landeryou says Jenkins)
Who will be Speaker? Rudd promised independence in that role.
They all promise independence… independence can be construed any way you wish. I’m sure the Libs will say Hawker was a fine and independent speaker.
Hemmingway
“ABC says Garrett has environment, but Penny Wong has Climate Change.”
mmm – neat trick – Garrett’s election efforts get him demoted without changing portfolios.
The Australian is reporting Smith for Foreign Affairs
Amazing that Peter Garrett has indeed got Environment. That’s a heck of a vote of confidence from Kevin Rudd. All is forgiven evidently. I’m actually very pleased about that. We are in for very interesting times.
Gough was both PM and FA in his first ministry.
He later made Don willisee FA but was in essence still FA which showed he couls stuff both being PM and FA
I am not making any aspersions about McMullan other than reporting what Latham said in the diaries about him. Presumably if Rudd wanted to have saved him he could have.
Steve I thought being leader of the house means you have to be a minister?
LTEP – Well we will see about a recession, I dont want to be BIS Shrapnel but we are statistically overdue.
Now that the schadenfreude is done, must be tough for those who missed out on a personal level. 12 years of chasing the prize and then to be denied by your own at the cusp of victory. I think Rudd is lucky he has a reasonable margin. Note how Howard even gave Wilson Tuckey a go – disaffected people can cause so much trouble.
I’ve worked closely with Penny Wong through some quite difficult issues and she is extremely capable and keeps her cool throughout. She will be highly competent on climate change and will surprise many people.
Dud ministers cause even more trouble.
Smith for FA would be a very good move.
Why is everyone so down on Garrett? His only fault was to make a joke to a media snake.
I think we’re seeing that Rudd was serious when he said “I will decide”.
He’s more a President than a PM so far.
ABC says Smith has Foreign Affairs too.
178 [Steve I thought being leader of the house means you have to be a minister?]
I can’t recall anything that would give me that impression. Just because the tories operate that way does not mean that other combinations are not possible or better.
Adam @180 I agree re the Garret attacks being uncalled for. They do, however, highlight his relative inexperience. Environment would also be a risk in light of his past/lyrics.
However, if a ministry for Climate Change is created, this would help offset (pun intended) the foregoing.
Ed St J yours is a smart friend … Howard won’t be the last I agree … it was a good govenment, it made decision … and it lost its way the last years under Howard
Lose the election …. His friend’s view is supported by history … the australian govenment cycle is Liberal in government, times are good. Since time are good, we get Labor in Govenment so they can make us feel good. We tell them to look after the environment, to spend money on everything. Soon inflation is up, people are defaulting on their home, people are unemployed and we get the Liberals back to get them to look after the Economy …. the govenment do what we tell them to do, not either party’s fault …. maybe Rudd will be different, like he say, he sure sound and have the background of a Liberal
Gillard for Education AND IR?
Adam,
The feckless joke was only the half of it. Ironically, it’s probably Abbott that saved Garrett by outgaffing him.
Dovif… times were good under Howard as Treasurer? Is that what you’re saying?
Supposedly Snowden has got a ministry gig, along with Justine Elliot, Debus and Kate Ellis.
I’m surprised Smith is out of education – would they switch McLelland to there, with Smith taking FA. And what is going to happen with Fitzgibbon – surely they’ll move him out of defence…
Hemingway, what was the other half?
You can always put duds in pretend ministries and then let them go after a term.
Dovif, I think you need to remember also that mortgage default’s are at record highs.
Garrett has not been saved, as Albert F noted. He’s got Environment but without the key area of Climate Change so he’s left explaining why, against his better judgment, the Tassie pulp mill is going ahead. He gets to talk about whales too.
This is a significant demotion. Climate Change will garner more headlines than any other single issue in the next couple of years.
ESJ,
I would assume Kelly would get Veterans Affairs reasonably soon, with Combet, Shorten and McKew also in line to get decent ministries.
191 [You can always put duds in pretend ministries and then let them go after a term.]
Like Mal Brough you mean?
Richard Jones,
Good call on Penny Wong. She ran many hard yards in the campaign, especially on Skynews. Is yours a nom de plume, or are you THE Richard Jones Balmain/Leichhardt?
Adam
I agree on Garrett. It was one slip, widely reported. But even sans Climate Change, environment will still give him some meaty issues to deal with, including the Gunns Pulp Mill.
Well steve, I think Howard did quite a good job of cycling people through ministries like
Jim Lloyd
Dana Vaile
Jackie Kelly
Wilson Tuckey
etc etc
Both parties have large proportions of smoking duds so you have to buy them off and hope they dont do too much damage. Its seems they all like to ride around in the limos and do the trips?
Dropping McMullan is bloody madness – the only sense i can make of it is if he becomes Speaker.
The man is a walking, talking book of standing orders – would bring some integrity back to the chair.
I’m surprised Garrett didn’t get shifted to Indigenous Affairs. Unless they’ve given that to Snowden…
Any word on what Bob Debus got?
Adam,
A few days before Abbott’s day of Apologies, Garrett had wrongly stated Labor’s position regarding developing countries for the upcoming future Kyoto Mach II negotiations. Rudd immediately corrected him, but it was not a good look.
Garrett often looked out of his element, although did better than expected in the Debate with Turnbull.
Swing Lowe-
Kelly in Veterans Affairs, wasted.
Its a declining area – WW2 vets and widows falling off the perch rapidly. Nice photo ops and cups of tea though.
any news on the Libs leadership?
ESJ (#203)- that is a moron’s statement. If you knew anything about the portfolio, you wouldn’t talk such rubbish.
Hemingway 187
Yes Tony Abbott, the gift that keeps on giving LOL.
I only caught up on the full text of his leadership comments on LateLine last night when I read the SMH this morning. An indication of future leadership challenges – just wonderful. So now Labor can accurately point out that the Liberals are both sticking to their unpopular old policies, and internally divided. I dub him the new Shadow Minister for Remaining in Opposition.
ESJ,
Kelly in VA would be an initial step. I’d expect he’d end up in Defence ultimately, but he’ll probably have to jump through a few hoops to get there.
198 The difference is ESJ that Labor intends achieving something while in power and not squandering time as your list of ministers was want to do. Leaving Ferguson out is a good move at this stage.
Dovif, I’d suggest your reading of history is flawed. Historically the ALP is elected when the economy needs fixing and/or people are feeling insecure. They trust Labor to provide a safety net and some compassion in these times. Once the economy is humming again they tend to elect Conservatives in the hope of maximising their financial returns. Labor tends to be the economic and social fixer.
ESJ #178,
You have noted that we are overdue for a recession. Does this mean that you won’t blame Labor if it happens within, say, the next 24 months?
Generally,
I wonder why Smith would be given Foreign Affairs? He seemed well-placed in Education, handing Bishop her backside every time they met.
Btw, I want to go on the record to congratulate Russell Broadbent on getting a swing towards him in McMillan. It shows what can happen if you’re willing to stick to your core beliefs, even if they contradict with the party’s official position…
No Kelly is the perfect person for FA in future
204 [any news on the Libs leadership?]
Yes Glen running around like chooks with their heads cut off as usual.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2104874.htm
Rudd News Conference at 1pm
Optimist, I think you will find the demographic realities are undeniable when it comes to Vets Affairs.
So when will Mal or Bren come out 1:30 or beforehand?
Robert McClelland is Attorney-General (surely a placeholder for Dreyfus). Stephen Smith in Foreign Affairs.
McLelland to be A-G. So what does Debus get then?
Mathew Cole -
Yes, Australian governments influence outcomes at the margins, we are just too small otherwise to cause recessions except in exceptional cases. But if there is a recession Labor will wear it because it happened on their watch, not fair but true.
Stephen Smith LOL we go from Alexander Downer to Smith HAHAHAH!
Who’s got Education?
No wonder they chose Smith because Rudd will do all the work for him LOL!
Gillard has IR and education
Gillard has Education and IR according to the Herald Sun website.
McMullan is now Parliamentary Secretary
Nelson supposedly Liberal leader
The ONLY way to have a reasonably independent speaker is to make it a public service or statutory position
Whilst the appointment may be pro the Government in power , I suspect it may be
more independent than a Government MP
The other disgrace of the ‘Reps’ is question time :
opposition questions do not get answered
government questions do get answered as they’re “Dorothy Dixers”
(or in respect to Downer are they ” Dolly Dixers”)
All will be revealed at the press conference. It’s all speculation till then. I feel sorry for McMullen though….and Bevis is my local member and a decent bloke – though perhaps it’s difficult to justify so many Brisbane members on the front bench. I’d have thought Bevis was superior than Snowden though. Rudd must want NT to have representation. He’s spreading the love around!
Link in the Oz regarding Lib leadership:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22839806-601,00.html
Nelson 45-42 Sweeeeeet
Soc @ 206,
Yeah, I read the Lateline Abbott interview transcript at abc.net, and you’re spot on. Tony went a quite a lo softer on him because he was willing to show up on such a “hard” day.
Given the total rejection he’s copped, I’d surmise that a mid-life crisis looms large in Abbott’s future.
ESJ #219,
Fair point. People still seem to forget that the Western world was in recession in 1989, not just Australia. Damn Paul Keating and his big mouth.
what about deputy?
Nelson in as sacrifical lamb
Rudd to do a press conference at 1 pm AEST on his new Ministry
Thanks Nayto, for the extra info on Nick X
Woot, I just won $200 if Nelson was voted leader.
bob Debus was a rather ordinary minister in a very orddinary to very bad State government in NSW.
Why has he a m inistry.
Kelly, Shortern and Combet have better credentials
225 [Nelson supposedly Liberal leader]
You mean a former union boss who was an ALP member. It won’t get better if that was true.
Young now up by 60 in Bowman, Dutton up by 200 in Dickson.
Ron Brown #226,
The other way to get a non-partisan Speaker would be to appoint Katter or Windsor as the Speaker.
“Swing Lowe Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
I’m surprised Garrett didn’t get shifted to Indigenous Affairs.”
I think Minister for the enviroment could go under the alternative title of “Minister that has to talk to Bob Brown”. In that sense, Garrett is well placed and now has had his wings clipped by having climate change removed.
He is not such a liability now, as the scare tactics he was subject to don’t work once the election is won.
SL: That means Dutton has dropped back since this morning in Dickson
ESJ (#215) – depends on your understanding of the demographics – if you think vet affairs is only about returned combat personell from the 1940’s and 50’s, then you’re take is correct. Problem is – it’s not. What about Vietnam vets, merchant seaman, Gulf War vets (both conflicts), veterans of countless peacekeeping missions, people involved in atomic testing….the list goes on. As I said, yours is a superficial and generally poor understanding of the portfolio. WWII vets and widows dropping off the twig does not mean that Vet Affairs is an irrelevant or increasingly irrelevant portfolio.
yeah but thats 89% counted he’s safe…
All Hail Admiral Nelson!
YES!
Just picked up nett $400 on Lord Nelson, many thanks to William and your cheque is in the mail.
HOLY CRAP!
Nelson wins!!!
Nelson has the unholy alliance of conservatives and anti-Turnbull moderates behind him. Nelson, from what I gather, is a moderate, which means he’s got to move his personal views to the right.
And of course, Turnbull will be waiting there on his frontbench (presumably), waiting for Nelson to stuff up and launch a leadership challenge…
Now, now Observer, Kevin told us we had to look beyond the “old battles”.
238 [The other way to get a non-partisan Speaker would be to appoint Katter or Windsor as the Speaker.]
Katter has been known to turn up to meetings days late. He won’t be responsible for anything.
Bishop deputy
Matthew Cole@238. Katter as Speaker??!!! HAHAHAHA I can imagine that giant hat of his as the perfect accessory to the Speaker’s robe. He wouldn’t expel the honorable members from the chamber – he’d leap over the Speaker’s desk and go the biff…”And F**@@N STAY OUT!!!
This is a great day for UNION BOSSES.
UNION BOSSES are taking over the Liberal party.
Dickson looks like being extremely close. There are 5000 uncounted absentee ballots, which are favouring Labor 51/49. But there are 3000 uncounted postals and pre-polls left which favour Libs 52/48. So we’re just going to have to watch and wait now…
Steve #248,
Then Windsor instead. But my principle remains – an Indie Speaker would generally be non-partisan.
Hemigway (#230),
did you happen to catch this little exchange on Lateline. I was in fits of laughter…..
TONY ABBOTT: But Peter has had many meals at the Lodge with John Howard.
TONY JONES: Why wasn’t he at this one?
TONY ABBOTT: He and Tania hadn’t been to a foursome with John and Jeanette.
TONY JONES: I hate even to contemplate the thought of that. But why wasn’t…
TONY ABBOTT: I would have loved to have been at such a gathering. And of course, Peter and Tania had been at gathering with John and Jeanette and other people.
All i can say is eeeeeewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!
Once Abbott pulled out, a Nelson victory was always more than likely. Abbott will have pulled out because he knew Turnbull would win otherwise.
This is going to be hilarious – both parties are going to have simultaneous press conferences!!!
Oh great, Bishop is deputy! The Libs will still be fighting for WorkChoices.
Optimist #255,
For the sake of Rudd’s chances in 2010, I hope that Abbott never shuts his mouth. It should be interesting to see his & Gillard’s reactions to facing of in Parliament again – from a reversed position.
I look forward to seeing Turnbull go quietly to the back bench. ha ha ha .
Snowden gets defence personnel, Fitzgibbon keeps defence, Wong has climate change AND water.
and what about maxine? anyone care to make a prediction before 1pm (when rudd reveals all)?
252 [UNION BOSSES are taking over the Liberal party.]
Looks like the days of 70% Liberal Lawyers are over. They can’t even get a Liberal lawyer up as leader these days.
Dr Brendan Nelson will be the next PM of Australia! And what’s more, someone who was once in the service of Evil and who has been redeemed. Proves that there’s hope for everyone on these forums yet.
I wish I had put some money on him, the bookmakers were offering some juicy odds.
Bishop is deputy yayyyyy!!!!
Senior Flinders Academic heard this morning: “I should have failed that bastard when I had the chance”.
JULIE
Lord Nelson
Julie Bishop
Garrett should have been punted. He has been hopeless as a politician.
Nelson is good for the liberals as he wil ltake the opprobium of being opposition leader get thrashed and then hand over to Turnbull who could win after that.
however I can see a bad press for Nelson and he mightn’t even hang in there.
how many times will we hear he is a half nelson!
Maxine is not going to get anything (Except perhaps a parliamentary secretary position).
Optimist
To be honest I agree with ESJ on veterans affairs. All the groups you mention exist, but, relative to the size of other needy groups that don’t get a Minister of their own (homeless, mentally ill, disabled) the numbers are frankly tiny. I think the existence of a separate ministry to cater for such a comparatively small group is increasingly hard to justify.
264
Nostradamus – Not only has Nelson had ministerial experience that Rudd hasn’t but he’s got leadership experience to boot with the AMA a wise choice for leader.
JULIE FOR DEPUTY HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
passthepopcorn #262
Communications for McKew. She’d have a ball there.
SMH is reporting Nelson winning Lib leadership. They have obviously opted to fade out rather than flame out.
This is the fourth time a Labor rat has headed the non-Labor forces (after Cook, Hughes and Lyons). Can’t you guys find any talent of your own?
Glen,
I humbly (or not so humbly) suggest that the Libs have f*cked up by not electing Turnbull as their leader (unless they don’t want to win in 2010). Turnbull had the only chance of winning votes from Labor – Nelson is just another talking head.
To me, he seems a lot like Crean – very dull and has picked up the Libs leadership not through any inspiring vision but by courting the Lib right and some bored backbenchers…
I’d like to thank Tony and Brenda for ensuring that Malcolm’s ambition has been kept in check, thereby ensuring many years of leadership battles to come, while the ALP get on with the job of running the country properly.
As of Saturday, Rudd will have something Nelson will never have – prime ministerial experience.
But i agree with you, that Rudd has never worked as a UNION BOSS, but Nelson has.
Umm, if the Lib vote was 45-42 for Nelson, where do they get 87 members from? I thought with their decimated ranks they could now barely muster 60.
Brendan Nelson’s version of gravitas looks like self-parody.
The senators get to vote.
Julie Bishop is a good choice for deputy, in my non-biased opinion.
Adam #274,
Remember that neither Menzies nor Fraser were ALP rats – although it looks like Fraser may just become one AFTER being the PM…..
Yep, Bishop was their best choice as deputy. Still think they should have picked Turnbull as leader…
Swing Lowe, i could of made that post when Rudd won the leadership, we’ll see how well Lord Nelson goes and its nice to know we’ve got leadership potential waiting in the wings should we need it while Labor have Rudd or zip!
How can someone who has a motorbike be dull SL?
274
Adam – yes Labor rats have helped us win in the past have they not good news for us Tory’s
JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE, JULIE!
Brendan Nelson’s an excellent choice – good for him.
Krudd dumps Bob McMullan selects the vacuous bimbo Ellis for the frontbench? I didn’t think stuff-ups would start so early!
And as the counting continues, Labor’s “emphatic victory” is looking more and more pathetic.
280 [The senators get to vote.]
Yes, members and senators get to vote in these gigs.
Nelson – so obviously a stop-gap. At least TRY to make the ALP mildly concerned about the next election.
Oh, and Julie Bishop as deputy. Fantastic!
Glen, I guess we’ll see soon enough whether Nelson was a good choice.
It would be interesting to see if Turnbull gets into the shadow cabinet and what reward Abbott gets from Nelson for giving him his votes. Could Abbott be the new shadow treasurer?
Nelson is a conceited, pompous jackass and won’t last until 2010. Turnbull and Abbott will now form an alliance and white-ant him.
Iain Duncan-Smith here we come !
Did the Libs announce the voting for deputy? I’d just be amused to know how many votes Chris Pyne got? He said himself, he has “political instinct”. ROTFL.
285 [Brendan Nelson’s an excellent choice - good for him.]
He’s very popular with the Labor voters Steven Kaye because it means a Union Boss has been placed at the top of the Liberal Parliamentary party. Beautiful!!!
“What percettage of Liberal leaders are former union bosses?”
[menacing voice] “100%”
I can think of two reasons why Nelson won.
1) He is expendable. Put him in charge will the fires rage then switch to Turnball.
2) Turnball is not liked.
Being able to win an election is not on my list.
I’ll be interested to see how Bishop goes. I think she has a very high style to substance ratio – and she’ll make little progress. But we’ll see….
Nostradamus,
I see you are continuing with your perfect score for predictions. So far you’ve scored a big fat zero for everything you’ve said would happen. Not ONE single prediction you’ve made so far this year has come true. Yesterday you said the Libs would win the elections on postals. And today another bound to fail prediction. Keep up the good work.
Perfect result for Labor supporters: Turnball, Abbott and possibly Costello will have the knives out for Nelson, watch the Liberals implode even further LOL
Glen, you can salivate all you want over Julie Bishop.
My girl Kate Ellis is in Cabinet Woohoo!
Hey steve with Dr. Nelson as our leader, we can lock in the Doctor’s wives for 2010 LOL!
The ABC stream is up.
http://www.abc.net.au/streaming/networktv.asx
What room is that?
Turnbull was offering a real break from the past for the Libs. The elevation of Nelson suggests to me that the Libs are not yet ready to make a clear break. There is a sense of hesitation and caution with really moving forward.
Plus, with only a very narrow win for Nelson, the party room is clearly divided. Abbott is also there hinting at taking another shot at the leadership in the future. So not exactly a very stable situation. I doubt that Nelson will ever feel very secure in his leadership position.
But the good news for Labor is that Rudd is going to be firmly in the spotlight and will have a lot of clear air for shaping the political agenda for the future. I doubt that the media will take much notice of Nelson, so even after a year, a lot of people out there in voterland will still be asking Nelson-who?
I suspect that Nelson’s biggest and most important job will not be taking up the fight with Rudd but trying to bring together the moderates and extremists in his own party. In other words, his will be a party rebuilding role and much less about taking a shot for becoming the next PM.
#287 -
“At least TRY to make the ALP mildly concerned about the next election.”
Little man, they should be concerned. As things stand now, according to Malcolm Mackerras, the Coalition only needs a 2.7% swing to win next time, and could govern with the help of independents with just a 2% swing.
Krudd, like Whitlam, is going to be a joke of a one-term PM-wannabe.
Didn’t Nostro predict the Libs would win the NSW State Election? Wrong at the state level as well.
Maybe you should try to predict the result in the Brisbane council election next year? If you can get that right, maybe some of us will believe your predictions…
Nostrodamus’s predictions are about as reliable as Ben Cousins staying drug free LOL
Yes Bredan Nelson is the living embodiment of stop-gap. He exudes mediocrity, a mis-guided sense of self-importance – and the way he puts on a deep, serious voice for what he sees as important announcements is just beyond comedy.
And Labor needs a 1.5% swing to win another 10 seats.
SK,
Whitlam had 2 terms – one from 1972 to 1974 and one from 1974 to 1975. Get your facts right…
He calls it his Super Hornet voice.
Steven Kaye: back again? I heard you had a hissy fit on election night and stormed off the board. Have you calmed down after a few tablets from your Liberal troll nanny?
glen, your taste in women (and political parties) is appalling!
Steven Kaye – pretty sure Whitlam won two elections.
Flash Rudd does the same thing, look at him talking about Bernie Banton he does the exact same thing as Nelson.
Glen: One of them is Prime Minister-elect, one is Opposition Leader-elect…
Terrible result for the libs. 43 votes to 45 means Nelson will be white anted till Turnbull’s ready for another challenge.
SK #301,
1. Whitlam won in 1972, then again in 1974.
2. Please stop the infantile name-calling. Kevin Rudd is now the PM-elect of Australia. That’s due at least a little respect (and yes, I said much the same to people who bashed Howard on a personal level).
Nelson is a sacrificial goose- who will probably last about 18 months. He was once a member of the ALP and president of AMA- so now a ‘union boss’ taking over the Liberals! What an irony!
Happy to see my local member (Kate Ellis) been promoted.
Sorry, 42/45
If the vote split 45 to 42, that makes 87 votes. Who exactly is voting here? The Coalition only has 58 seats (so far)….
So much for the 1pm presser. Perhaps Kevin’s running on QLD time.
Nelson YES!!!
Thats $300 profit for the Fed election and wait for it … $900 for the Libs leader ballot.
Yes yes yes!!!
Did you manage to get on at 6-1 William?
311 Rudd has never been a Union Boss but the Leader of the opposition was a Union Boss. Glen I can now understand what all the Liberal advertising using taxpayers money was really all about now. The Liberals were warning us of what they planned after the election.
53 Liberal Lower House members + 34 Senators = 87
Well, Swing Lowe, one and a bit terms – that second period of chaos can’t seriously be called a term of government.
Andos #317,
Both MHRs and Senators get to vote in a leadership ballot, in both parties.
Hey, at least we have a competent alternative option to put in should Nelson fail with Malcolm waiting in the wings who does Labor have, Swan?
And didn’t Rudd win by this margin 3 or 2 votes and he won the election?
Lord Nelson
Julie Thatcher
SWEET!
Anybody get any bets in?
I suppose it’s nice my local MP is now the leader of the floundering Libs, but he is quite useless. Julie Bishop only has marginally more utility – she’s only memorable for the hair, the eyes and the occasional bizarre anti-commie/lefty quote. Good to see it was a narrow win, and I’m sure there will be more exciting Liberal leadership games to come.
No comment on the deputy votes, they obviously didn’t want to hurt Pyne’s feelings.
Whitlam won two elections – the second was a double dissolution that he had to do to get anything through. However, he only lasted a total of three years, the length of one ordinary term.
Labor will lose government with a swing of less than 2% next time round. Governments rarely get a swing towards them in their second election; they should be very concerned indeed.
The Krudd ministry that is unveiled today is essentially the same rag-tag joke that lounged around the Opposition Benches in the Crean-Latham era a few years ago, a bunch of union-hack hyenas devoid of talent and shorn of competence. Meanwhile the Liberal caucus remains stacked with up and coming star material putting them in good stead for 2010.
Given the tight margin, and with the Libs in front in a few of the 6 or 7 undecided seats, maybe Turnbull can ask for a recount when the vote count is finalised? After all, it would be a shame to end this process too soon
Andos @ 317
Senators vote too
On Veterans benefits declining with time, see
http://www.themonkeycage.org/2007/11/the_longterm_economic_cost_of_1.html
“as of 1967, 1,353 dependents of [American] Civil War veterans were still drawing benefits”
As an ex-Liberal supporter I’ve got say I’m not tempted back to the conservative fold by Nelson/Bishop. The penny hasn’t dropped with the Libs. They’ll need one more election loss to convince them the party needs a major reform. Nelson/Bishop is a good result for Labor but a bad one for the Conservatives.
He got his own vote. He was promised another vote, but Abbott turned up late.
Turnbull will come from behind to win on postals.
Ah yes, I forgot about the honourable Senators.
Nostradamus
Govts OFTEN get swings towards them in the second term
Danny Yee
the decline over time is the point, but even to start with, Australia has a far smaller proportion of the population eligible to be veterans than the US does.
If anyone is interested, Guiliani is self-destructing somewhat on CNN in a Republican debate. He says he would refuse to sign a federal ban on abortion from Congress if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade.
Nelson?! What a bad choice!
He looked as wicked and untrustworthy as Ruddock.
Turnbull is a nice, round and public-friendly fellas.
Close seats update:
Labor now ahead by 60 in Bowman and 129 in Herbert.
336 [Govts OFTEN get swings towards them in the second term]
Just like Beattie in Queensland, a narrow win and massive majority since.
334 Ashley
Hilarious!
did anyone see that most unfortunate photo yesterday of mr pyne astride a drain hole? it certainly detracted from the “gravitas” he was trying to project.
Nostradamus #328,
1. I seem to recall you claiming that Howard would win this election convincingly – no kudos to you there.
2. “Stacked” is the operative term to describe the LP frontbench – such of it as remains after the dual harrowings of the election and Nelson’s inevitable purge.
Am I right that a few of the Liberals who voted today haven’t officially won their seats yet, like Fran Bailey(there are those 3000 votes still to count), Peter Lindsay, Peter Dutton, Dave Tollner etc? So a few of Nelson’s votes could be considered invalid.
Steven Kaye, your predictions are terrific. What were you predicting for this election?
Look what we didn’t get:
Abbott and Costello
Abbott and Bishop
Lord Nelson and Lord Downer (of Baghdad)
Malcolm and Turnbull (he’d take both PM and Deputy with his ego!)
Crikey, they had some cracker combo’s, eh?
328 nostra could go the other way if the ruddster runs a tight ship. the libs now aren’t sitting on the fat margins they were last time and a lot of seats could fall.
The modern Liberal party: hard of earring.
HH, from what i read the RO of the Lib Meeting allowed MPs who were ahead on the count to vote, i wonder if Steve Irons flew over to vote?
Watch as Turnbull poisons Nelson’s leadership attempt. He did it with Howard and he will do it with Nelson.
Nostrodamus and Steven Kaye, you two blokes are full of crap!
Glen puts the rest of you conservative idiots to shame!
You can bet there will be a redistribution in one or more states before 2010, which will change the margins in seats, and Maxine McKew will greatly increase her margin in Bennelong next time without Howard’s personal vote to worry about.
Bishop means nothing – that hideous old man that the Nats are electing as leader will be the Deputy Opposition Leader – so any “gain” has been wiped out already.
313 & 315 – This is not necessarily bad for the LNP or even from Turnbull’s perspective – instead of Turnbull getting worn and tarnished during the tough, dead years, he can now sit back for for a while and jump into the leadership fresh and new with say 9 months to go before the next election. That’s if he uses the time in between to develop more support in his own ranks – instead of just in his own head. That’s the trouble with an ego as big as his, the opinions of lesser mortals don’t matter.
The other problem for Mal is that over the same period, the NSW uglies will be organising in the state branches and among the parliamentary party and will have a better puppet than the Monk, and firmer numbers, by the time the Admiral is due to be knifed.
Both Nelson and Bishop have their roots in South Australia. As do Gillard (well, Wales for four years) and Rein.
LTEP Turnbull has a better chance to challenge than Abbott, that’s a given.
The smart thing for the Libs would have been to parachute Mal Brough into Nelson’s seat but it’s too late now and they will just have to be content with a union boss instead of a much loved genius.
338
Flash
Yep, Roooody is about as palatable as a pork chop in the Middle Eastern place of worship (choose one or both!)
So, Huckabee to roll Mr DogFood (Romney)?
Hmm – so Truss will be the Deputy Opposition Leader? Interesting…
Oh yessss, Mackerrras – unerringly correct as always. The needed swing is academic – Nelson is unlikely to get it for whats left of the LNP. But someone had to take the first bite of the brown sanger…
Anyone else just clean up on Nelson? I made a cool $1k.
LTEP, lord nelson will manage that without malcolm’s help.
hey, rudd’s on news radio.
Lord Cockatoo Nelson takes over as Leader and Shadow Minister for Truth
Julie Googly Eyes Bishop takes over as Shadow Minister for Domination
Turnbull lost. Liberals screwed.
349
Inner Westie
Cracker!!!
So what is the actual job of Deputy Lib leader……..you get to push the tea trolley?
If Mal Brough was so loved how come the good folk of Longman chucked him out with a whopping swing in favour of a Labor hack with a beard?
You get to stab the leader in the back after 18 months.
Downer is so far the only Liberal leader to have never gone to election. Lets see if Nelson manages to join him.
Glen has this weird idea that if someone deserves to be re-elected, then they should be re-elected, and that it isn’t necessary to count any votes.
Patrons de PB, it’s come to our attention that some people are still reading posts from trolls, and worse, attempting to reason with them.
THIS SHOULD STOP IMMEDIATELY!
Rememer, once a troll, always a troll, and good arguments are but pearls before swine.
Don’t know why the Lib party hacks are all so happy with Bishop being deputy, she supports the old ways including supporting WorstChoices. The public will punish the Libs even further.
Most of the changes in the composition of the Rudd ministry seem to make sense (getting rid of dead wood like Laurie Ferguson is excellent), but I have to say that I’m bewildered at Bob McMullan and Kate Lundy being demoted. Both of them are *fantastic* MPs, and would have made excellent ministers.
361
Yoyoma – you were very smart, Nelson has always wanted to be the leader and he’s been in Parliament for 11 years, he was always going to win, its just that the media backed Turnbull. Gee if Turnbull had shut up this week he might be the leader lol!
The crow eaters have taken over Parliament Phil lol!
Viva Lord Nelson and Julie Thatcher Bishop.
The problem for the Libs is that Nelson and Bishop will never make the reforms the party needs for the long term. They’ll make minimun changes which won’t solve any of their problems.
Julia Gillard gets Education to go with Industrial Relations!
“steve Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
336 [Govts OFTEN get swings towards them in the second term]
Just like Beattie in Queensland, a narrow win and massive majority since.”
- you could add to that Bracks who juuust squeaked into a minority govt and then eviscerated the Libs at the next election
Peter Garrett = Environment, Heritage and the Arts
Penny Wong = Climate Change and Water (responsible for international negotiations)
This will be Howard/Peacock all over again, except this time, we’ll have Nelson/Turnbull/Abbott.
Costello was the only one who would have been able to hold the party together, like Beazley did after 1996 and 2004, these three will only result in its division.
The Liberal Party will need to do some very hard thinking, Federally and at a State level to rebuild, but it will take a long time.
I suspect the next Liberal PM is not even in the parliament. He/she will probably enter in 2010, like Rudd and Gillard did in 1998.
I’m disappointed to hear that Nelson is the leader of the Libs. I’ll never forget his appalling Kokoda speech. Nelson also thinks teaching ‘Intelligent Design’ in schools is a good idea – this from when he was minister for education.
I suppose there’s some comfort knowing he is very unlikely to be primeminister. Those who take over a party after a loss rarely (ever?) become PM.
Kev says he’s taking Peter and Penny to Bali.. Sounds comical somehow.
Yoyama @ 361 – me too. Money for jam at those odds. Even got $15.50 for some of it against Nelson on Betfair. What a great punting election this has been. Great to win money off the misfortune of the conservatives – it adds that extra level of satisfaction you don’t get from the horses. The best for that feeling was Maxine.
Are Combet, Shorten and Maxine parliamentary secretaries?
The hack with a beard may soon be clean shaven (depending on his instrument).
Gillard in Education how surprising? Not
As IR is now largely deregulated and will largely stay deregulated, Gillard obviously wanted something in which she could really get stuck into the social engineering.
Lundy – going down, for mine that could only be topped if Belinda Neal lost Robertson in late counting.
Oh well let the comedy begin.
Isn’t Rudd going to love fixing the Hospital funding while Union Boss Nelson looks on from the wrong side of the despatch box.
Yay, Nicola Roxon stays in Health.
I’m really disappointed to see Nelson get up. What were they thinking? Turnbull might be a risk, but he was a fresh face, and somebody who could lead the Liberals back towards the centre, with fresh policies on the republic, aboriginal issues, IR and so on. I would have taken a serious interest in the Liberals under Turnbull, but Nelson is just a pompous prat. I think they got the deputy right, although I’m not sure if I feel this way just because she is reasonably articulate and presents well, I’m less sure if there is any substance there. Gillard vs Bishop will be an interesting battle.
Things are looking a lot brighter for Labor in Herbert and Bowman, while Robertson and Corangamite are safe, and Dickson is back in play. I feel nervous about Flynn and Solomon though.
Shouldn’t we trust a Doctor to fix the hospital system over somebody who was referred to as Dr Death?
He used to wear an earring and his brother died from AIDS. Been married three times doancherno. Couldn’ he keep ‘em happy? No smoke without fire I always say.
“Roxon in health? That’s bullshit” – Tony Abbott.
Turn it up, Glen.
Nicola is my new favourite Labor politician!
Steven Smith in Foreign Affairs.
Jeez won’t Bill Heffernan be spewing when he finds out that a Chinese lesbian is the minister for Climate and Water!!
With any luck, he’ll resign from the shock.
390 [Shouldn’t we trust a Doctor to fix the hospital system over somebody who was referred to as Dr Death?]
No, He’s Nelson’s his chance and failed that is why the people voted for change. They want results not years of neglect which the Liberals delivered to health with their perpetual underfunding.
Im pretty sure if Dutton holds on he’ll get a good front bench position.
Bishop will probably take shadow treasurer unless they give it to Mr. T
Abbott will probably chose what he wants after all his support must have tipped Nelson across the line.
Glen, which seat did Jack Kevorkian win? (Wait a minute … Kev … orkian …)
Glen, noone cares about the Shadow Ministry positions.
mcclelland – A-G.
excellent
stephen smith – FA
I have to say, I’m glad Robb didn’t get deputy. He still has to answer for his attempt to say 13 ALP candidates were ineligible to stand, and for the Lindsay affair when he went on Lateline.
Glen, your side should promote Bruce Billson, Greg Hunt and Tony Smith.
LTEP you did when Labor was in Opposition, cmon LTEP this is all we have now lol
McClelland puts me to sleep, which probably means he’s a good choice for AG
Half of Parliamentary Secretaries “newly elected to Parliament”.
Well Robb will get a senior position but yes those moderate Libs from Victoria should get a go i reckon after all we need to build up support in Victoria its a wasteland for us atm.
Roy & H.G. are going to LOVE Kate Ellis as Minister for Sport!
McKew gets Parliamentary Secretary for Early Childhood Education and Childcare
Bahahahahahahahaha!!! Nelson!!!
What will Turnbull do now if Nelson won’t apologise, ratify Kyoto or allow Workchoices to be repealed?!
Oh my, with Malcolm and Tony in the background, Brendan will be able to feel very safe indeed!
I think we are forgetting about an important political issue in debating the Liberal Party leadership – political cartoons and satire! Who would Alan Moir rather draw – Nelson or Turnbull? Will we see them draw Nelson as a captain on a burning deck, or a doctor standing over a deceased patient? Or will it be Turnbull, martini in hand, dodging knives from Abbott? What about Deputy – The Eyes Have It (Bishop) versus the imposing Chris Pyne? So many good options.
For that matter, the Chaser team will be affected too. Shouldn’t these affected parties get a vote in the process? I would certainly trust the Chaser’s expert opinion on who is the best Liberal Party leader for the sake of comedy. C’mon Liberals – embrace true democracy and give the people who really matter a vote!
Combet gets Parliamentary Secretary to Defence.
Andos, so that means Combet, Shorten, McKew, Kelly, Mark Dreyfuss get jobs?
Wow politics is crazy we have a wannabe Liberal as head of the ALP and a former ALP member and AMA President leading the Liberals.
Is this bizzaro world or what?
maxine – parl sec (early childhood edn and childcare). yay!
greg combet – parl sec – defence
mike kelly – parl sec – defence
Kelly also Secretary to Defence.
Woo ! Or should I say Ha! Ha!
Go Nelson!
As in Nelson Muntz – school bully at Springfield Elementary in the Simpson’s.
Neslon will keep you wandering in the desert where you belong, you right wing maddies and bullying baddies!
No, Labor is in government, Liberal is in opposition. We have just returned to the normal world after 11.5 years in bizarro world.
Shorten: Secretary to Families, Housing, Family Services and Indigenous Affairs.
Tony Burke is an odd choice for Primary Industries: has he ever been on a farm?
I think the Shorten and Burke appointments are interesting. The real potential future threats to Rudd on the right kept at the most appropriate distance possible.
Try this:
Google Julie Bishop
but beware:
She ‘googles’ back!
Who’s in charge of the Pork barrel, I mean Minister for Industry and/or road funding.
HH, now my pick for the Minister of Administrative Affairs is ………. Simon Crean.
Ferguson gets “Shadow Minister for Multicultural Affairs” – bit of a Freudian Slip there from K Rudd, you’re not in opposition any more!
Glen, Crean got Trade.
Crean got trade.
The problem with Garrett in Environment is nothing to do with his ability, and I agree that criticism of him in this regard has mostly been unfair. The problem is that if he is continually rolled on Environment issues – and it doesn’t appear that a Rudd government is going to be a very deep shade of green – then the Garrett ‘brand’ is devalued.
Okay… WTF, 2 secretaries for defence? Is Labor shaping up for some big challenges within the ADF?
420
Howard Hater
That’s a promotion for a damn good performance. Tony Burke is not a show pony and has that excellent laconic manner which is respected in the bush.
You don’t see the joke, obviously you haven’t watched Yes Minister…
When’s the next poll?
Any ideas why McMullan got dropped? Could it be that he will actually be speaker?
Kevin now trying to get out of his Affirmative Action responsibilities by saying he is proud of having 7 women in cabinet…
Denis Napthine, Robert Doyle, Ted Baillieu: all visionary statesman worthy of a global stage. Victoria was too parochial for their dignified and intelligent leadership.
4 in Cabinet; 7 in ministries
Who is Immigration Minister?
Dave from Albury will you still be on the AC Nielsen on-line poll panel?
No doubt you will be giving the thumbs down and thumps up to the Government and Opposition line ups?
Chris Evans.
428 I think Garrett will get to play a key role with the targets to be set next year for cutting greenhouse gases and promoting renewable energy.
Howard Hater, Senator Chris Evans, Leader of the Government in the Senate
Can someone tell me who is Chris Evans is?
Thanks guys!
Stephen Conroy and Crean: I would have dropped both of them!
432 – I thought when Labor won that McMullan would be a good choice as Speaker.
conroy min for broadband
Conroy in. Boradband and Digital Economy?
Is this one of the first times a Victorian Lib has not been in a main leadership role?
If that’s that case, then it says many a thing about the pathetic excuse for a party the Victorian Libs are.
Dario (#432),
I would like to think that McMullan will get Speaker – if he doesn’t, there can be only one reason a man of his intellect and experience was dropped……..ffffffffactionalism!
I missed Chris Bowen. What did he get?
When is Lord Nelson going to hold a press conference?
“Hi I’m Brendan I’m from New South Wales i ride i motorbike and im here to help.”
I’m actually kind of surprised that Kevin didn’t name himself “Minister for Everything”.
A-C, WA currently has the same number of Members and senators as Victoria so I think they managed to shoulder them out of the way.
Indigenous Affairs?
fagin – jenny macklin
conroy’s kid suffers from ADSL and has to take pills for it.
wire is it so
A-C – Rudd is smart enough to know that he needs to allow time for himself to keep a tight rein over these guys. He wants to run a very tight ship and giving himself too much to do would undermine that objective.
anything on Minister for Cows, sheep and wheat (agriculture)??
449 [When is Lord Nelson going to hold a press conference?]
Why would Nelson hold a press conference? Who wants to be told bad news?
Predictions: Who are the weakest links in the new Labor ministry? Who will mess up first? Who will lose his/her job first?
I just hope Nelson and Turnbull aren’t the Howard/Peacock of the 1980s.
That we don’t need.
EdenMonaro Resi – Tony Burke.
Flash,
Thats easy
McClelland and Garrett. Note that he (KR) has given others overlapping responsibilities with theirs.
Stage left: By gee, Huckabee is impressive. He could beat Hilary. (CNN, Republican debate)
I mean what is the difference between Minister for Home affairs and AG?
459 It will be Abbott/Nelson where the tension will be greatest. It is always the person closest to the Leader who is most likely to be the underminer.
But Abbott will never have the numbers, all Abbott could do is threaten to remove him for Malcolm though i doubt that.
non-rural/regional southwest Sydney Tony Burke? ummmm….
Re: Warren Truss – the Nats might as well have elected Professor Farnsworth from “Futurama” as their leader!
(For those that don’t get that – in the series Farnsworth is 160 years old)
A-C Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
“Is this one of the first times a Victorian Lib has not been in a main leadership role?
If that’s that case, then it says many a thing about the pathetic excuse for a party the Victorian Libs are?”
Robert Ray was suggesting on Sat night, that it is the VIC Libs (ie Kroger) who will be the one’s who need to fix the Liberal party’s problems. The NSW Libs are in the hands of the rabid right.
Mike Huckabee was just asked about Nasa space programme.. He said “Perhaps Hilary could be on the first rocket to Mars”. Not bad.
Turnbull is the sort of O-L that would only shine during recession, I believe.
Otherwise, he seems too aloof and arrogant – I can’t imagine ‘battlers’ warming to him.
Burke in Primary industry – what’s that about?
Just what the nation needs …
“Dr Nelson was the first education minister to exercise his ministerial power to stymie projects from receiving funding through the ARC, even though they had been approved by the council after extensive selection by experts in their fields.”
Brendan and the GDR
Amazingly enough, John Murphy from Lowe got a Parliamentary Secretaryship. I have to admit, even I’m amazed at this – he must have voted for Rudd in the leadership challenge last year…
A-C, you think the battlers will warm to Nelson? This is a genuine question…
465 Costello never had the numbers either but he shadowed Howard like a rabid dog until the end. Nelson should just announce the date today that he intends to hand over to Abbott and be done with it. When that date arrives Nelson should hand over.
@ 459 Glen Says:
Some believe that the Libs will be irrelevant by 2010 anyway.
In today’s SMH pschologist Steve Biddulph writes:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/28/1196036982629.html
466 – iirc John Kerin was Member for Werriwa and was Minister for Agriculture under Hawke. He went to an Agricultural HS though.
I reckon Education will be handed off to Maxine after a year or two
How did Macklin get FACSIA? Surely there were people better qualified for that position…
Sure Tony Burke’s from a city, but what Labor member with a rural background could they give Primary Industry to?
*Education, Employment and Workplace relations: Julia Gillard
*Treasurer: Wayne Swan
*Finance: Lindsay Tanner
*Foreign affairs: Stephen Smith
*Defence: Joel Fitzgibbon
*Attorney-General: Robert McClelland
*Cabinet secretary: John Faulkner
*Health and ageing: Nicola Roxon
*Families, Housing, Community services and Indigenous affairs: Jenny Macklin
*Environment, Heritage and The Arts: Peter Garrett
*Climate change and Water: Penny Wong
*Trade: Simon Crean
*Infrastructure, Transport, Regional development and Local government: Anthony Albanese
*Resources, Energy and Tourism: Martin Ferguson
*Agriculture, fisheries and forestry: Tony Burke
*Human services: Joseph Ludwig
*Innovation, Industry, Science and research: Kim Carr
*Home affairs : Bob Debus
*Broadband communications and digital economy: Stephen Conroy
*Defence, Science and Personnel: Warren Snowdon
*Workforce participation: Brendan O’Connor
*Superannuation and Corporate law: Nick Sherry
*Small business: Craig Emerson
*Ageing: Justine Elliot
*Housing and Status of women: Tanya Plibersek
*Youth and sport: Kate Ellis
*Veteran affairs: Alan Griffin
Parliamentary secretaries:
*Secretary to the Prime Minister, Early childhood education and childcare: Maxine McKew
*Parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister: Anthony Byrne
*Defence procurement: Greg Combet
*Defence: Mike Kelly
*Infrastructure – Northern and regional Australia: Gary Gray
*Disabilities and children services: Bill Shorten
*Multicultural affairs and settlement programs:Laurie Ferguson
*International development assistance: Bob McMullan
*Pacific relations Duncan Kerr
*Social inclusion: Ursula Stephens
*Trade: John Murphy
Suspect that Macklin won’t be there for too long.
# 476
Steve Biddulph, is a moron.
“*Broadband communications and digital economy: Stephen Conroy”
LOL! what a complete load of tokenistic bullshit.
Matt D,
I would have thought Livermore in Capricornia would have been decent enough.
I’m guessing Burke is holding Agriculture temporarily until Elliott gets it (or Combet).
I got 10-1 on Nelson this morning
Thanks William.
He won’t be happy…
Irons up by 146 in Swan. Cheeseman up by 760 in Corangamite. Corangamite is looking increasingly safe…
I will organise a donation shortly.
So who is in Coonan’s old job… is that Conroy?
how about immigration?? is it part of home affairs???
Housing and Status of women
Superannuation and Corporate law
Broadband communications and digital economy
With the enlargement of the public service, Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud, well done KR !
Dario (#481)- so the newcomers to get Parl Sec jobs were Shorten, Combet, McKew, Gary Gray, Mike Kelly and Bob Debus – is that right.
Can i ask the source of your list?
Peter Lindsay is just 10 votes behind the ALP in Herbert with 87% counted.
Yes.
Given the resutl was 42-45, when the new senators arrive will they hold another ballot?
That’s essentially a tie. There’s going to be some fun times ahead.
492 With the enlargement of the public service, Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud, well done KR !
How many ministers did Howard have Glen?
that Biddulph article competely avoids the possibility that parties these days adapt (ie they’ll move to centre rather than into the wilderness).
Gillard in education is very interesting…espcially when you think about the things that Nelson did to it you mention inner westie…any ideas on how she views higher education? can we expect to be ignored or given platitudes?
#9 I always thought that John Hewson was the Libs Mark Latham!
A-C @ 443 – i was thinking exactly the same thing about steve biddulph. against childcare centres.
459 Glen
The real battle for the soul of the Liberal party is between Abbott and Turnbull. Poor old Brendan is “piggy in the middle” standing there helplessly as the salvos fly overhead. Eventually one of the real contenders will get the numbers and simply dispense with Brendan.
So we still don’t know what Chris Bowen has gotten?
Rudd didn’t mention an Assistant Treasurer, but he said that there was a Cabinet of 20 (suggesting that Bowen is in Cabinet).
Donday (498) – Biddulph is a child psychologist – buggered if i know why anyone thinks he knows politics (people, please refrain from the predictable – all pollies are like kids gag).
Financial services? Presumably with Swan and Sherry?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2105169.htm
Can anyone direct me to a definitive list of the new ministry – I’m hearing that McKew is parl sec to the P.M – not Byrne.
Glen
Even if Lindsay wins, he isn’t going to afford that awfully big office he has in the new heart of Townsville (aka right next to Stockland). He will disappear in to obscurity.
If Colbran gets up, he will make every Maccas his own office.
IN other news, Julia Gillard was looking forward to her next sleep being sometime in 2020. Education AND industrial relations? Keeps her pretty busy I would guess.
The current defence minister is obviously a stopgap with two ridiculously qualified people as his parl secs, and Maxine has gotten the reward she deserves – Full time access to the prime ministers ear and two parl sec positions. I hope by 2010 one of the two defence parliament secs has been promoted to minister, and Maxine has gotten the ministry of her choice.
Optimist, there are two parl secs to the PM, two to the defence minister and two to the foreign affairs minister.
Chris Bowen is Assistant Treasurer, Minister for Competition Policy & Consumer Affairs – ALP folk just sent me a full list
Charlie – cheers.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2105169.htm
She will get Education
Oh no: Is this what we voted for?
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22840697-5012863,00.html
506 here it is (if you can trust the Oz as a definitive provider of anything)
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22841904-11949,00.html
Emily, is that a Cabinet position? If not, what is the 20th Cabinet spot? Rudd mentioned that there were 20. Maybe Emerson?
514 – Nice to see the author didn’t have the balls to own up to that article. No mention that the lateness was to allow the Lib leadership announcement to occur.
Charlie, on this list Bowen’s in the Outer Ministry.
The 20 in cabinet are: Rudd, Gillard, Evans, Swan, Faulkner, Crean, Smith, Fitzgibbon, Roxon, Maklin, Tanner, Albo, Conroy, Kim Carr, Penny W, Garrett, Robert Mc, Joe Ludwig, Burke, Martin Ferguson.
Yeah it’s a pretty terrible article, I was actually quite surprised at how unprofessional it is.
Thanks for that, Emily.
513. What a stupid article. How long would you expect it to take to announce the entire Cabinet, outer ministry and parliamentary secretaries?
20 in Cabinet. Everybody wins a prize I guess.
Gillard is minister for Education, as well as IR
w00t
ESJ,
That’s the same size as the last Howard cabinet (I think).
Thank you for all your support on this forum.
Can I just say that there is no such thing as victory in opposition.
People should not be thinking in terms of “conventional victories or success” in Opposition.
Success essentially means that the Liberal Party, supported by its own Right wing Christian factions, will be able to provide protection to its own people for the foreseeable future.
It will, however, also be a party that will continue to be characterised by degrees of sectarian and other violence and internal wet insurgents who so desperately want to make sure that we remain in Opposition. They will do everything to frustrate and undermine our stay the course message, which has brought us so much success in the past. Why would you risk change and change for change’s sake?
Ladies and Gentlemen I can guarantee that We of the Liberal Party of Australia are not for turning.
John Faulkner is also the Vice President of the Executive Council.
Yep, and highly regarded by the industry. AFAIK, he had no farming experience, though he did work for ABARE before going into politics, but that was as an economist.
Having direct personal experience in a portfolio is not necessarily an asset, especially as one as diverse as PI because of the temptation to believe you have a deeper understanding than than you actually do. An ex chook farmer is more likely to be a hinderance than a help when it comes to matters related to wool, sugar, or fishing, for example.
In the same vein I wouldn’t want to see Kelly eventually get Defence. Ex ADF defence ministers have generally not been a success. In fact even making Kelly a parl. sec. for it is a mistake, IMHO. He might have been better supporting the A-G with the intention of giving him the job in a few years. I’m personally disappointed that McClelland is the A-G because it pretty much rules out any action on war crimes and probably also AWB and any other former government abuses than may be uncovered.
Colbran is only 10 votes ahead in Herbert.
And hopefully Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports.
http://www.liberal.org.au/images/NelsonBishop.jpg they look a good team if you ask me
Brendan, have you changed your mind on why we’re still in Iraq? What is your party’s policy on Iraq now? And how much a hold of the Liberal party do you have, a quarter, half, three quarters or full Nelson?
I think Labor can forget about Herbert: too many defence personnel voting Liberal again.
527 A great team for opposition glen, I’d give them 15 years there myself. Just never let them near government.
No, none for the opposition.
Monotone Nelson and Deathstare Bishop. Wow this will be a fun 3 years…
506 Labor have had a Dept of Employment, Education and Training in the past. Different emphasis to Liberals of the role of workplace relations.
Well, I remember when Workplace Relations was called Industrial Relations like it should be.
Who will represent the Treasurer in the Senate?
Carr?
No prizes at all for Glen, ESJ, Steven K, Nostrdamus or LETP – you can all stew in your own bile. See you in three years. Our slogan will be “Kevin Again in 2010!”
534 Seems like alot of us are having to relearn the ‘right’ terminology. Might take a while to become unconscious thought.
So now it’s Kevin v Brendan. We won’t be able to hear the parliamentary stoushes for the snoring.
I like Glen, but the rest of the Coservative idiots on this board can disappear permanently, thanks very much.
Actually Adam, ‘Brendan 010′ sounds much better
!
538
Neilbris – true but thank god for Albanese and Abbott lol!
If Bendan makes it to 2010, I’ll streak naked through Darling Harbour.
Actually I think it was 18 in Howard’s cabinet. Early example of controlling the size of government? Not.
Nelson said on AM several days ago that he did not think that Labor had a mandate to change the IR laws and that the coalition was not obligated to support any changes to unfair dismissal. His main object was to make sure his kids grew up with employment oportunities. Just the man to lead the Libs into political oblivion.
Yes the trotters are being eased ever so gently into the trough. Same old Labor.
541
Howard Hater – true, true, but i don’t think we’ll hold you to that just in case Malcolm wants a crack after 2010. After all Malcolm will probably have the numbers with the new Senate and MPs who survive the postals. Still i think this is good, it will keep Nelson on his toes and he’ll be working bloody hard which i think is good.
It looks like the cabinet is bigger, but the outer ministry is smaller
Any guesses for Speaker? I would have picked McMullan but he is a parl sec
They look like a couple espousing their success since switching to full time Amway sales.
And thanks to you guys the trough is soooooo much bigger.
Dick Adams, he’s already bashed Rudd today on the factions, this gets him out of the way lol!
Glen 527
Let me just say, which one of the two featured in the photo is not man enough? Enough said.
Will 528
Let me just say this. My role as New Leader of the Opposition is to secure future Oil supplies for this country. I am proud of this and I will not resile from this. A majority of the Parliamentary Liberal party have elected me. Julie is welcome to ride on my coat tail but I’m afraid I won’t be able to find a Shadow Ministry for Malcolm.
Speaker will be either Jenkins or Price.
When will we hear the figures for the deputy vote? I want to know how many people thought that Christopher Pyne could be the future of the party.
Edward… you’re really whinging about 2 extra ministers? Note the size of the overall Ministry is exactly the same… but you’d assume this will grow over the term of government rather than shrink.
37.5% of the Labor caucus will have Ministry positions of some type.
Dave they may leak them, but id think Pyne got less than 10 it was between Bishop and Robb anyway Costello would have done the numbers for Julie.
True – 1 is less than 10.
Paulof Kotara: Looks like the Libs are still on a train wreck to oblivion if the new leader is going to try to block any changes to IR. Given the fact that Bishop is still in favour of WorkChoices, it looks like nothing has changed.
They are not in favour of workchoices Will they are in favour of keeping Unfair dismissals out of the IR system.
Adam – if Jenkins gets Speaker, which right faction person will get president of the Senate? I’m guessing it’s basically a factional carve-up of those two jobs right?
LTEP I recall Whitlam could not make the hard decisions about ministry too! As I recall all of them got to be in Cabinet because EGW couldnt bear to deny some.
There seems to be shades of that here too (but obviously not to the same degree)! I mean the obvious logs got sawmilled but KR seems to have squibbed it on McClelland and Garrett. It seems the Cabinet is 20 because the intention is to reduce it to 18 if you get my drift.
Optimist.
John Hogg, the current Deputy President and Chairman of Committees.
Glen, you better hope Brenden stays in the top Liberal job, otherwise you’ll be seeing my ugly naked body plastered all over TV LOL
555 [anyway Costello would have done the numbers for Julie.]
Glen, that’s why people are demanding to see the figures. This bloke was Treasurer for almost twelve years and produced rubbery figures repeatedly.
LTEP – cheers. And if Price gets the chair, which left faction Senator will be Senate president?
Senator Gavin Marshall from what I’ve heard.
LTEP – ahh yes, forgot about Gavan.
Cheers again.
Ms Bishop received 44 votes, compared to 25 for Mr Robb and 18 for Mr Pyne
Rudd’s ministry members that voted for Beasley in 2006:
Anthony Albanese, Stephen Conroy, Kate Ellis, Craig Emerson, Chris Evans, Martin Ferguson, Duncan Kerr, Joe Ludwig, Jenny Macklin, Tanya Plibersek, Stephen Smith, Wayne Swan, Penny Wong
Glen: We will see how the Libs stand on IR once Horatio announces his front bench. If his shadow minister is Andrews, Hockey or even Abbott, then nothing would have changed at all.
In other news Senator Eric Abetz has replaced Senator Helen Coonan as Deputy leader of the Libs in the Senate.
Flash #455,
Quite right – I think that in line with his technocratic background, Rudd will be more of a supervisor than a frontliner. Just the kind of PM we need to ensure that AWB II doesn’t happen.
Flash #458,
My bet on which Labor Minister will stuff-up first is Crean. He’s a total incompetent, and it’s a tribute to his factional backing that he got in at all.
Well, the first Whitlam Ministry was 2 people, for a cabinet of 2.
Whitlam was the first P.M. to designate different roles as inner or outer ministry, with the inner ministry as cabinet.
569 [then nothing would have changed at all.]
It’s the one thing that can be banked on with the Liberals. Even the vote today was a whimpy vote for no change.
Yes thank you for the smart aleck reference to the duumvirate ShowsOn. I think you will find I am correct on the Cabinet.
Re 552,
Adam Says:
Is this speculation? Do you know this for fact? If the latter, please tell me your source, thanks
Turnbull to be Treasurey spokesman. Bishop IR.
IR will be Bishop according to Sky News
Malcolm shadow treasurer
Bishop shadow IR
Turnbull shadow treasurer
Swan will be shaking in his boots lol Turnbull has got a good position
No, Swan is in the government.
Nelson will be shaking in his boots because Turnbull will be able to take him down after a year.
Glen.
Its Nelson who is shaking in his boots over Turnbull. 2 votes away.
570 [In other news Senator Eric Abetz has replaced Senator Helen Coonan as Deputy leader of the Libs in the Senate.]
I thought they lost the election because the Liberals were out of touch. Now they will move out of sight with this great decision. Not a smart move if they have plans of ever being electable in the future. Abetz is a whingy, whiny, sulker who will find it difficult to win the electorate over to his form of moodiness.
The inner Cabinet was first created by Menzies in 1956. Whitlam reverted to all Ministers being in Cabinet, but it wasn’t a success and all subsequent governments have had a Cabinet and an outer ministry.
true true ruawake
Nelson lookin good tho, and Nelson will support ratifying Kyoto.
Thank you for that confirmation Adam.
My sauces are confidential. Some are sweet, some are sour, all are piquant.
Dario #568,
All that shows is that Rudd is willing to let the past stay in the past.
585 [Nelson will support ratifying Kyoto.]
Why didn’t Nelson do it when he was in Government if it is such a good idea?
Shows On : “Roy & H.G. are going to LOVE Kate Ellis as Minister for Sport!”
Yes. Hello Boys!
Nelson thinks he can go and talk to Rudd about Labor policies, he still thinks he is in Govt. Twit.
Turnbull will be the first Shadow Treasurer able to promise that he will abolish taxation and fund the government out of his own pocket.
Whenever I see Julie Bishop, I’m reminded of her relationship with Ross Lightfoot. urggghhhhh
In his case it really was a gun in his pocket.
http://www.chaser.com.au/content/view/3286/127/
591 [Nelson thinks he can go and talk to Rudd about Labor policies, he still thinks he is in Govt. Twit.]
Nelson probably thinks his past Union Boss credentials are worth something.
They wouldn’t shut up about how good Senator Rod Kemp was.
They hated Senator Brandis. I think they’ll like Kate Ellis for some reason.
Brendan already has a fan club and a website
http://www.nelsonfacts.com/
HAHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAH Bishop and Lightfoot? NO WAY!?
Kate Ellis: she’ll go from the “baby” of the House to the old lady in time.
Charlie @ 448
Chris Bowen –
Assistant Treasurer
Minister for Revenue and Competition Policy
Minister for Consumer Affairs
Edward St John,
Considering you said that Lindsay Tanner was not a suitable person to be in government because he has been married 3 times, I eagerly await you condemnation of the Liberal Party for electing as leader a man who has also been married 3 times. Or is it just Labor marriages that are immoral?
The theory that McMullan would be speaker seems to have been dashed by the fact that he’s been made a parliamentary secretary. Pity – he would make a good and fair speaker, and being from Canberra, it would work well for him personally too.
Re 587,
Adam Says:
Ok I can understand confidential sources. Until I see it in print, I will assume nothing myself. If you, however, have confidential sources, can you tell me when the public like myself will see the choice in print? thanks
It obviously isn’t this afternoon 
Paul K,
As the Byzantines ruled, anymore than 3 marriages was regarded as a form of legalised prostitution. So I think that means both of them have used up all of their chances.
Antonio, I think Bob is factionally unalligned? If so, no way will he get speaker.
I think one thing that the ministry list confirms is that there’s no way the factions didn’t play a part in its composition.
or is he Centre?
or just dead meat?
Another disappointing government in some ways ….. Minister for Transport, Regional Development etc but no Minister for Urban Affairs or Cities….. Both sides of politics seem to be “a-spacial” ….. I suppose because they’re mostly all lawyers (and union bossess
)…. …..
From the looks of it the right did better than the left compared to the shadow ministry.
613 Had Nelson not become a Labor rat he probably would have been named Health Minister this afternoon instead of being plunged into the most vulnerable and short-term position in Australia.
Mr. T will be happy with being shadow treasurer though, next best job, plus he’ll still have a high profile enough to one day challenge if he wants.
Making McMullan a Parl Sec is bullsh*t – he’s one of the best minds in the ALP. His experience and intelligence would have been a huge asset, particularly in terms of parliamentary procedure and strategy – bonehead move!
Looks like the leaker got plumbed.
610 [Mr. T will be happy with being shadow treasurer though, next best job, plus he’ll still have a high profile enough to one day challenge if he wants.]
Are they queuing up to challenge already ,Glen? That’s what I like about the Tories in opposition so much stability .
Is Mr T going to go round 2 with Horatio when it comes time, unlike Cossie?
What’s the opinion on Stephen Smith? I was hugely unimpressed with him in his early political career (which I took notice of at the time after he became my local member). I haven’t really followed him closely since leaving WA, is he still just a numbers man? How good do people think he’ll go outside the back room??
With the Labor plant now in charge of the Opposition, does this mean the unions have cemented their hold on political power in this country??
wayaway there’s a reason he’s foreign minister, he’s a deadbeat who couldn’t sell the education revolution and now Rudd will be able to run DFAT by himself.
“When I was Vice-President of the AMA, I was told by the Labor health minister that I should `not bother telling the then government what I thought it ought to do and that, if I wanted to change anything that government was doing, I would have to change the government’. I was then told by his successor that people were `wasting their money having private health insurance’ and that they ought to do what she did. When I inquired what that was, it was to pay cash. There we were representing a million families in Australia earning less than $40,000 a year, half a million people on health care cards and 800,000 pensioners who still made enormous sacrifices to care for themselves and their families, and government wasn’t listening.” – Brendan Nelson Maiden Speech
After Downer anyone is a step up. I think Smith is pretty smart and this may be his chance to shine. After Downer’s policy of offending every small nation on earth he’ll be a breath of fresh air.
614 [Is Mr T going to go round 2 with Horatio when it comes time, unlike Cossie?]
Seems like the Liberals have learned the lesson that nobody willing to challenge leads to electoral defeat so they are determined to have challengers coming from the left, right and centre to keep Nelson on his toes.
Glen, people are wasting their money having private health insurance. Ask anyone who’s had a serious medical condition and they’ll tell you so.
Howard Hater @ 541
If Brendan makes it to 2010, Darling Harbour will be a nudist colony.
Incidentally, has the hate subsided? I mean, pretty soon there won’t be much to hate: the sad little creature will be spending his days walled-up in Wollstonecraft, listening to the trots with a crochet blankie over his knee, sipping endless cups of Horlicks and getting increasingly impatient with his wife (who will soon start arriving home ’suspiciously late’ from the bridge club on Tuesday afternoons).
388 – The QLD libs have Dr in charge as well and he is a dud.
Although, it did mean that during the last state election they ran a slogan “Real Doctors not Spin Doctors”.
Tollner now behind by just 262 votes.
I agree Smith has nothing to beat in comparison to Dolly…
Sorry to disagree but I’ve got Private Health Insurance (hospital only) and I spent a week in hospital last year. I’m glad I have it.
Tollner could hang on if the trend continues.
Pre-polled 53/46 to Tollner and Postals 59/41 to Tollner.
Interesting, so what does he do? He joins the party that voted against Medicare. What a hypocrite.
How history shaped Nelson.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/nelson-unveils-new-liberal-team/2007/11/29/1196037053480.html
Glen, in ‘04 the provisional votes favoured the ALP 54/46. They haven’t started counting them yet for this election. I think Hale is pretty safe.
Paul K,
You are a real Paul arent you? Unless you’ve seen it, felt it, touched it personally you just dont seem to be able to validate an opinion as worthwhile.
Oh god it’s a love fest on the opposition benches:
i saw that on Sky it will get a run on the news or at least 7:30, Julie full on grabbed him it was hilarious especially with those eyes.
Edward St John,
I love you too.
The man who finally admitted we went to Iraq for the Oil elected as Leader of the Liberal Party. Interesting times indeed.
http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2007/11/liberals-go-for-brendan-we-went-to-iraq.html
Paul K today is a day for sharing the love.
What will be next will the Rudd cabinet imitate the Swedes and sauna together? I can just see Faulkner’s specs misting up.
635 – Wil Ms Ellis in cabinet, I can’t blame his glasses for fogging up.
636 – (With)
The Australian is so in touch with the pulse of Australian politics.
On Tuesday they ran two opinion pieces. Christopher Pearson endorsing Tony Abbott, and Paul Kelly endorsing Malcolm Turnbull!
Like magic, factions fall into place
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22842227-5013481,00.html
So Rudd has overcome factionalism in the ALP, HA think again!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22839806-601,00.html
In the contest for deputy leader, Ms Bishop received 44 votes, compared with 25 for Mr Robb and 18 for Mr Pyne.
Will Nelson beat Downer’s 8 months as opposition leader?
so long as Brendan doesn’t say ‘the things that batter’ as his first policy, yes.
That’s better than the Liberals being almost perfectly split down the middle.
ShowsOn but if you read the article there is a perfect balance between Left and Right lol.
Edward,
And you think I’m cynical!
Downer must have backed Brendan by the sounds of things.
DroversDog 607
I agree. There is quite a problem at present with tFederal transport policy that urban public transport is excluded from AusLink funding. So the Feds fund rural railways and highways, urban freeways, but not urban rail or busways. Plus they require the states to contribute funds to the AusLink projects, so most of the State funds as well are tied up in the bigger AusLink projects, usually urban freeways. Only the wealthy State governments (WA and QLD) have the cash spare to fund any new urban public transport.
A simple solution would be to open AusLink funds to include urban public transport projects. That way they could be funded in a cost neutral way, also helping meet greenhouse targets.
Can anyone tell me what the Liberal policy on Iraq is now?
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/nelson_new_liberal_leader
Point very well made Socrates.
Can anyone tell me what the Liberal policy on Iraq is now?
Who cares? it hardly matters.
That’s better than a perfect split between Nelson and Turnbull.
649 But now that they have chosen Nelson to lead them into the wilderness I want to know which path they will take.
http://dailyflute.com/?p=1336
Surely it’s a given of the science of psephology that Nelson’s wife votes Labor, or even Green?
Nelson! hehehe.
Libs being strategic, letting him take the fall in 2010?
Or Mal just a bit less popular than he’d like?
steve @ 647
Redeploy Australia’s troops to the shopping centres of Bennelong.
have they announced the shadow positions yet? not that it really matters i guess…
Lefty E, Malcolm will be better with experience and he’s a good fall back option, but im willing to give Lord Nelson a go. Im just wondering how he’ll fair in approval ratings and preferred PM hmmmm hopefully better than Big Kim when he took over.
If the Liberals win in 2010 they will re-invade Iraq.
Hillary will have surrendered to the terrorists before then Adam.
Yep. The Union’s domination is complete and total. It has 70% of the Government and 100% of the Coalition leader. Effing hell, that Combe was good!
50% of senior Liberal Leadership are Union bosses, then splice in a word play with Nelson saying We’re Coming Back!
What a bunch of gutless spivs! Now Jho has got the arse it’s “Kyoto, Kyoto, Kyoto”.
Road to Surfdom is rolling around laughing at what the Libs have done today.
http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/11/29/kiss-me-hardy/
@ 657
By ‘Iraq’ I presume you mean the mortgage belt?
Kevon Rudd must me laughing to himself at the Libs having voted for Brendan Nelson. Couldn’t ask for better.
I thought that Malcolm Turnbull made the right noises in defeat but told a fib-”we’ll go on to win in 2010″ or words to that effect. He knows there is no chance of the Coalition winning with Brendan Nelson.
Well, he will have to wait another year or eighteen months before he takes over.
He’ll make his move when the polls show Brendan Nelson scraping along the bottom.
There are probably a few in the party who think that Malcolm Turnbull is far too modern to take over. He has such 21st century ideas. Tut,tut.
Maybe we could have the Chaser team dress up as Tony Abbott, terrifying coalition backbenchers entering caucus meetings by ranting to journalists present about his leadership ambitions. Maybe the Chaser team could run for the Liberal leadership. Or impersonate them. They nearly got away with impersonating Canadian leaders, how hard can it be to impersonate a Liberal leader? Would they make it into parliament?
Richard Jones, how many people said the day Rudd was elected leader of the ALP that he would win the 07 election not many?? We’re allowed to take a punt on Lord Nelson as you did with KR.
Is there a chance in the future of Turnbull and his supporters breaking away from the religious right to form a new political force???
667 [Richard Jones, how many people said the day Rudd was elected leader of the ALP that he would win the 07 election not many??]
Pretty much everybody except a couple of Tory trolls.
Oh that darling blowhard of the Howardista, Miranda Devine:
“However Nelson, who commands the respect of the military for his clear intellect, discipline and compassion, and who has long courted the back bench, is not a man to be underestimated. Late last night his numbers were holding strong.”
I nearly choked on my Bollinger!
As Dame Leonie Kramer put it soooo succintly:
“Once you start aspiring you never stop”
The great hope of the Libs “The Doc” and “Chucky Eyes”………….hahahahahahahahaha
Wilkie only 132 behind.
Well Glen I didn’t make a punt on KR except an online bet when the betting favoured the Coalition plus an online bet as soon as the betting opened on Justine Elliott keeping her seat. I can buy a thousand rainforest trees with the proceeds. I’m going to the nursery tomorrow.
Glen I have never voted Labor in my life. I have voted Conservative in the UK for Peter Rawlinson, voted Australia Party, Democrats, independent and Greens but never Labor or Liberal. Nevertheless my preferences go to the people I consider doing the best for the environment and then the economy.
Punt on Lord Nelson, former Labor party supporter, if you like but I am saying it’s not one I’d put my money on to win. I regard Malcolm Turnbull an ideal leader for the Liberals at a time like this and a potential winner. He did have a swing towards him after all.
Even Latham ran rings around Nelson in question time so what hope do the Libs have of not embarrassing themselves.
Gotta agree with Steve. As soon as Kevin took over there was widespread approval, not only among Labor supporters, but the general community (as the polls immediate march north clearly showed). I doubt we’ll see that with Nelson. Half his party don’t even want him and those that voted for him did so out of loathing for the alternative rather than confidence in Brendan.
Nelson’s legitimacy is questionable at 45-42. Now there are 7 or 8 too close to call seats. What happens if Lib wins 4 and they are all Turnbull supporters. Be worried, be very very worried, Nelson.
What of the Senators? Which ones voted – anybody know?
Cause there’s a few of those changing next year, too.
SK – Why wait till 2010?
When talking about “wrecking the place” you could try talking them into denying supply while you have the chance.
We enjoy your pain, you know, Steven Kaye.
To be fair, Turnbull is pretty hopeless in question time, so that wouldn’t make much of a difference.
Regarding Nelson, I don’t have as much against him as some of the other Howard Ministers, and he does not have baggage like AWB or Haneef hanging over him. But does he have other risks? Despite Miranda Devine’s objective (as always) assessment of his capability, is there a risk of embarassement from Nelson in the Super Hornet air force tender saga or previous incidents? I never saw the Four Corners show, but I gather that many people think they are an expensive waste of our money. Also, what about the Jake Kovco fiasco, where I recall Nelson seemed to make some public statements that were quite unfortunate?
I thought Turnbull needed to show he wanted the leadership, but would be entirely happy not to have it at the moment – let someone else do the public heavy lifting…
You’d have to say that cronyism and factionalism still reign. The non-inclusion of McMullan is a disgrace when places are found for the likes of Ludwig, Fitzgibbon, Snowden and Debus.
Glen before you tell us that Nelson being Howard’s successor was not predicted. Read this from 25 January 2006.
http://dailyflute.com/?p=1337
Steve I said Nelson would get it because he has the most party support and he did.
Anyway ever since he got into Parliament people touted him as a future leader, they were right.
Lefty E, it’s the country I’m worried about it. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand, being a leftie. Your species isn’t particularly known for its patriotism.
Nice to see Garrett demoted. Also good to see that Krudd has finally admitted he’s Wong about climate change!
On the first day of Parliament, Nelson should drive his Motorbike to Parliament House
hey if Rudd can do stunts so can Lord Nelson!
“Super Hornets” Nelson does carry political baggage.
Super Hornets: $6 billion worth of obsolete taxpayer-funded garbage.
45 votes to 42 sounds only just a bit better than a half-Nelson.
But what sort of a hold has the Christian Right?
about 5-10 votes out of 87, don’t believe what the Labor trolls tell you about the influence of the Christian Right in the Liberal Party.
685 [Anyway ever since he got into Parliament people touted him as a future leader, they were right.]
Now that everyone is touting Nelson as a short term leader, are they right?
Garrett demoted? He is in cabinet. The Honourable Nude Nut thank you SK.
I don’t think every media person has said that Steve, so i don’t consider it valid.
Glen – “On the first day of Parliament, Nelson should drive his Motorbike to Parliament House
hey if Rudd can do stunts so can Lord Nelson!”
Oh how I hope he does. He should bring his white strat in as well and start riffing to god save the queen.
just as an aside… Labor’s TPP vote as fallen below 53%… down to 52.99% and falling
I was wondering how Steven Kaye would cope with a loss given his continual blithe confidence of a win.
Stop to lick his wounds?, to re-assess?, to wonder why his view of the world is not shared by the majority of his countrymen?
Nope. Sails on as unreflective as ever. Shame, it could have been a learning experience for him.
PS: Belinda Neal getting slaughtered on postals in Robertson.
oh NOOOOOOOO….
Howard craws back in Bennelong
2061 votes difference,
85.74% votes counted,
13,911 votes not yet counted.
Howard 48.69% — McKew 51.31%
Bennelong has recently been updated on the AEC website.
Whats the latest in Robertson Matt D?
LOL how funny would it be if Howie won his seat LOL it wont happen but still!
Yes, with the TPP just dropping now below 53%, what do people think will happen over the next week? Is it likely to start increasing again as more absentee votes are counted?
I just hope it pops over 53% again as I had some money on it being between 53% and 53.99%.
791 vote ALP lead in Robertson.
686 Stephen Kaye
“Lefty E, it’s the country I’m worried about it. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand, being a leftie. Your species isn’t particularly known for its patriotism.”
Yes Lefty E, shame on you! All you left-wingers care about is the environment, education, a decent health system, sustainable long term growth, and an equitable distribution of financial rewards. How will that make Australia a better place? At least Stephen Kaye is fighting so that struggling millionaire Liberals can keep their rightful place as Our Masters. What would you have them do – get normal jobs so that they can make a meaningful contribution to society? Outrageous! You do not respect the Natural Order of Things.
PS Lefty E, how do I become an honory member of your species?
I think Rudd should really mess with the Liberal’s heads and finally let
Bronwyn Bishop be speaker.
Sorry I can’t help it.
Brendan Nelson as Liberal Leader – Ba Ha Ha Ha HA ha burp.
Well laugh all you like but Nelson doesn’t eat his own ear wax unlike KR ruawake lol bahahahahah!
#695 -
“just as an aside… Labor’s TPP vote as fallen below 53%… down to 52.99% and falling”
Their primary’s dropping, too. The poor little mongs can’t even get a landslide right.
Glen @ 587
Maybe after he drives his motorbike to Parliament House, he can ride his car there too.
haha the TPP has just gone back up to 53%. Wonder if we’ll see it oscillating around over the next few days – or is it likely to keep increasing now that the AEC is finally counting the absentee votes?
Only around 8,000 votes left to count in Bennelong now, with Maxine in front by 2,500. Howard is only getting a 55% split from postals, and less from Abesntee and Pre-polls. At that rate there’s nowhere near enough votes left to make up even half that lead.
707 Steven Kaye – Ah, Steve nice to see you are taking the loss to heart. A loss is a loss old son, enjoy!
Gee Steven Kaye… now you’ve used the word ‘mong’… anything else you want to spring on us?
No way Howard will win Bennelong with postals breaking like that. He’d have a chance if it was 10% higher.
The only thing Brendan Nelson cares about is Brendan Nelson – he is the original “celebrity candidate”.
He has the charisma of a paddle pop stick and the spine of a bluebottle. Lets see what the parliamentary secretary for defence procurement discovers.
Did Andrew Peacock offer Nelson a job at Boeing?
LTEP, more to the point would Howard want to win Bennelong?
Crikey has this apology from the GG
http://www.crikey.com.au/Media/images/071128-Aus-Corrx-600px-2-e3fe0fef-b111-4764-905e-52f70e8e248b.jpg
Glen 706
I have never eaten earwax. I smoked it but never inhaled it.
Well, I got my wish – Nelson as leader of the Libs. How they expect to win with him is beyond me.
Well Glen, it depends whether he wants in his legacy to be the Prime Minister that lost his seat. I doubt it. I guess he doesn’t really care but it really would be a smear on his record.
I’m willing to predict Labor will hang on in Solomon, probably in Corangamite and Flynn and cling on in Bowman and Robertson. Total seat count 83-85 seats.
I don’t think they do Gary
Hello William! Thanks for your good works. Hello Poll Bludgers!
Been up-country doing things away from most civilisation.
Brendan Nelson! My god, I’m scared. If he comes at me armed with his wet tram ticket, I’ll run … true dinks! He is so scary. He’s a good friend of Karmahl …
Sorry… 82-84 seats.
Even if Smith was catatonic he’d still be a better FM than Lord Downer. At least he wouldn’t bear great responsibility for the destruction of one country, East Timor, or some responsible for bringing another, Iraq, to the brink of disaster with perhaps 1 million dead and 4 million dispossessed, and creating the world’s biggest terrorist training camp. Nor do I believe Smith would ever be implicated in what was, at best, gross, perhaps criminal, incompetence, and at worst, treason.
Whatever little respect Nelson still had among the top ranks of the ADF was blown the day the CDF and CAF found out at a press conference that he had ordered $6,000,000,000 worth of aircraft the RAAF does not need and had not asked for.
IMO, this is potentially an even greater scandal than AWB. Was he panicked into buying the Super Hornets by the maker’s (and F-111 maintainance contractors) sales rep, the former Liberal MP Andrew Peacock, or is it even more sinister?
Either way, I want my ~$300 share back, and from Nelson’s wallet, not the public purse!
Labor lead in Herbert up to 33 votes – I suspect Lindsay will win, especially if there are more nasty postal votes to come.
Steven Kaye has been put in the moderation bin for his ugly misogynistic attack on Julia Gillard. I would much prefer it if he stopped coming here.
Howard Hater, there are about 2000 more postals at least to come in Herbert.
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionDecScrutinyProgress-13745-165.htm
LTEP: Robertson seems safe for Labor now. I agree with you on Solomon and Flynn, Bowman looks possible, Herbert seems unlikely(even with a miniscule Labor lead), and forget the rest, even the mythical 3000 missing votes in McEwen.
So I’ll say 83 or 84 seats for Labor
And I forgot Corrangamite, which I’ll add on to the 80 confirmed Labor seats.
So my prediction is 84 Labor seats(counting Bowman or Herbert)
William, not SK if he goes all i have is ESJ and John of Melbourne???
Im sure he got banned for a reason though.
2000 more sweet Lindsay has a chance…
Steven Kaye, what are you still doing here? You’ve got nothing concrete to add to the board, only insults.
Hey when are we going to get a Liberals in Power doco?
Glen, my money would be on Lindsay. I don’t understand why Herbert didn’t swing so much to Labor as other coastal QLD seats – Lindsay is that good a local member?
Sorry if this has been covered before, but what is Maxine doing in Bennelong? Is she being nice and allowing Howard to concede or just being sure of the numbers? I want it finally done and dusted.
729 Hey when are we going to get a Liberals in Power doco?
2025
Well hello again fellow bludgers.
My prediction on 85 seats 53/47 wasn’t too shabby after all….
ps: I was very pleased to see “50’s throwback” Brendan Nelson get the gig. Looking forward to increasing the ALP majority in 2010.
Ill take a loss in Bowman HH if Dickson remains ours, though i feel sorry for Laming after all he was cleared and before that had happened he was touted as an up and comer. But thems the breaks. Still i wonder how many postals are yet to be counted for Herbert and Bowman, i think Flynn and Corangamite and Solomon look likely for Labor though Tollner is doing well on postals so that could come close.
Greetings all.
I’ll give myself a small pat on the back for correctly tipping Nelson/Bishop. Someone, several hundred posts ago, perhaps in another thread, asked why Abbott put his name up when he knew he was going to lose. Now we know. He has, at least for this round, established himself as the kingmaker. And he has put down a marker.
The new team is a good outcome for the libs. It saves the one real hope, Turnbull, from himself. Perhaps he will take a major bit of learning from this – that he needs to build a party constituency. If he gets that right he will also have learned a bit about team work along the way.
Meanwhile Nelson and Bishop are both very hard workers. They will absorb punishment and tend to the organisational gardening.
But Abetz and Truss? Panache personified!
It is indeed regrettable Glen, and I wish to God there were more conservatives here like you and ESJ. Unfortunately, so many of them have been in the mould of Snoopy, Cerdic Conan and Steven Kaye: ugly, nasty, spiteful and utterly lacking in any semblance of humour or goodwill. Yes, there have been creeps from the left as well, but there’s no escaping the fact that their proportion on this website is much lower. I repeat the words of George Megalogenis from Insiders on Sunday, because they are bang on the money:
Is it true that Turbull’s middle name is….Bligh?? “Lord Nelson…Captain Bligh is behind you!”
“…for his ugly misogynistic attack on Julia Gillard.”
It’s a bit rough to ban someone for being misogynistic when he doesn’t even know what it means.
Steven Kaye (706) The landslide will be completed at the next election. Plenty more marginals for the ALP to grab.
Yes the Liberal leadership voting numbers can be easily explained. Its not the Senators – the difference between the 87 votes cast and the 59 Liberal MPs is obviously the entire Rudd front bench voting en block for Nelson
I see http://www.nelsonfacts.com is up already. Obviously they had http://www.turnbullfacts.com ready to go just in case, as trying to access pops up an authentication dialogue box for access to area “ALP Private Page”. Nothing up on his defense spend-a-thon, perhaps they are saving that until parliament sits in Feb?
What is funny is that you trash us choosing Nelson but if we chose Turnbull, you’d then say we’ve wasted the only good shot we had.
Now how in the world can I be misogynistic towards Godzillard? Misogyny can only be directed at women!
Glen – I agree. Nelson is probably best case. he can east the s*** sandwich before Turnbull takes over.
Relax Glen, we were going to trash you regardless of who you chose….you know that!
Steven Kaye 743,
Why don’t you just retire to your cubicle with your dog-eared magazines.
William, you better ban Bill Heffernan too …
Glen
I am not trashing the libs for choosing Nelson. I think it was the right choice in the circumstances. Bishop is a no-brainer because she it the pipe to the WA money plus you get an energetic and very determined person to go with it. It doesn’t really have much to do with his qualities or Bishop’s qualities, or their views for that matter. It has more to do with what is likely to happen to them in the next little while. As I said, they will absorb punishment, carry out a bit attrition in the Senate and, with a bit of imagination, carry out some desperately needed organisational renewal. If the polls support them, well and good. If not, Turnbull is a fresh brand.
Glen,
You should be used to being trashed by now considering you barrack for Melbourne.
Steven Kaye: keep on digging that grave mate!
So Julia Gillard is the new Russ Hinze, Min for Everything.
(Nb i’m not being ugly or misogynistic, even if Big Russ was that and more!)
It will be fascinating to follow her already quite stellar career. People seem so polarised by her: and not necessarily on party/ideological lines. Personal I think both poles over-estimate her. She’s not haridan, nor saviour, not a bogan nor a Godiva. Just a fair political operator, with a decent heart but a huge ambition, like 75% of those who enter politics.
Libs big movement since Sat night
approx 5% of the total vote has been counted ( 677,187 2PP votes counted)
LCP have gained 2PP 53.20% of these votes to Labors 46.80%
which has caused Labors 2PP to drop from 53.41% to 52.99%
and the swing to drop from 6.15% to 5.73 %
THIS MOVEMENT IS ON ONLY 5% of the total vote since counted
there is another 19.23% to count
A helpful suggestion for Nelson and Turnbull:
Given the divisions in the Liberal Party over several issues, I have a fair and democratic sugegstion for how Labor can exploit, oops, I mean handle, the problem sensitively. For the key pieces of legislation that deal with the difficult issues, particularly Climate Change and WorkChoices, introduce the bills granting members a conscience vote. So if any Labor members want to vote against a bill to ratify the Kyoto protocol they can. Similarly, if Malcom Turnbull and Brendan Nelson want to vote in different ways on Kyoto, they can. I think we can be confident that Labor’s legislation will still pass. For the Libs, it should help clarify things.
With the demise of the Rodent, we need a new nick-name for the Liberals. Instead of calling them Team Rodent, lets change their name to “Team Unity”.
“ugly, nasty, spiteful and utterly lacking in any semblance of humour or goodwill.”
Well, I’m certainly ugly, and I’m also nasty and spiteful, and I’m utterly lacking in goodwill when it comes to Liberals. So I guess it’s only my feeble attempts at humour that save me from William’s bin.
The Liberal party has no credibility because of their actions and this is not good for democracy!
There needs to be a viable alternative for the people at the next election or Rudd will just be the same as Howard in the next decade….meanwhile Rome burns…..
Christ who is doing the counting? Jack Newton?
Big, big thanks to Mr Bowe for his grand efforts over the past few months. I’ve never been so well informed (or entertained!)
You da man, William!
Did anyone collect on the 6-1 odds for Brendan Nelson? Curious minds want to know lol ……
Wow, in Ron Brown, we have found someone even more alarmist than LTEP…
#723 William Bowe “Steven Kaye has been put in the moderation bin for his ugly misogynistic attack on Julia Gillard. I would much prefer it if he stopped coming here.”
Hear, hear. I come to this blog to be informed. To follow well reasoned political arguements whether they be of the right or the left or even the centre. I don’t want to read irrelevant crap.
So Steven Kaye let put this as politely as possible. F*ck off you moronic w*nker.
looks like the ALP covered all the bases as they have registered:
abbottfacts.com
bishopfacts.com
turbullfacts.com
nelsonfacts.com
guess that they have all the potential leadership scare campaigns covered for the next few months anyway
I have to admit that I thought the Libs would have chosen Turnbull as leader. But this was based on them doing what was the most sensible thing to do for their better interests.
I should have known better. As has been the case ever since 2004, the Liberals have developed a knack for sabotaging their electoral prospects.
Ron Brown is even more deluded than Nostrodamus and Steven Kaye LOL
Quit while you’re ahead, Vote1Maxine. Julie, I collected $150 from the 6-1 on Nelson, and am mortified to discover it could have been 9-1 if I’d gone with Betfair. Noocat, you’ve hit on something there: punters assumed the Liberals would behave sensibly. Now they know better.
Good on you William
I have never put political bets on ever before, prior to this election and after making only $11 on the deal [5 individual seat bets], I will stick to AFL betting exclusively for awhile 
Btw, have those missing votes in McEwen been counted yet?
I’ll stick to Rio Tinto.
I think the reason Nelson was chosen was much more practical and common sense than most would think. The Libs still haven’t figured out and/or came to terms with “why” they lost the election. Clinging to the policies which got them voted OUT isn’t going to cut it in the long term. Turnbull laid his cards on the table and said he was for signing Kyoto and for saying “Sorry” (for starters). Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe Nelson laid his cards on the table at all or if he did, he was much more circumspect about it than Turnbull. Seems to me that a party which still wants to cling to the remnants of the Howard era for now chose the leader who was more conservative and/or less radical on policies. So using the maxim that “less is more” Nelson got himself elected to the job.
Glen 727,
Radio Berlin (EStJ) is going off the air at midnight on Saturday, I guess that makes you a werewolf?
Cheers,
EStJ
Petro Georgio would have been the best bet. Wasn’t “must have spine” on the job description?
Julie,
I was lucky enough to get $20 on Nelson shortly before Sportingbet suspended betting at around 10am: easiest $100 I have ever made!
Thanks for the tip, Mr Bowe!
Nelson wasn’t my fave education minister, and his tacking to the centre-right of his party rivals Gillard’s transformation.
But I feel a bit sorry for him.
A mere 3 vote majority in his caucus, the bulk of his support surely coming from hard conservative resisters of change, and that slim majority explicable because some would simply want Turnbull to prove himself in Parliament a little longer and to be kept powder dry for after the next election.
Nelson’ll have a privately resourced, articulate rival Turnbull down his neck from early in the life of the new Parliament, in a position to bring on a spill whenever it suits him.
Full Nelson is NOT electable. He is the current version of Bill Sneden. Now we all know what happened to Bill Sneden!! At least we know he (BS that is) died very very happy.
Well!
761
The Age has an article and link to http://www.nelsonfacts.com
Someone’s been doing their homework!!
Ron Brown, you’re assuming the total will be 100%… it won’t be. Haven’t we gone over this a few times?
The ALP campaign machine rolls on…
Given the vote I think he is the Half Nelson.
KT, yu are pathetic and get back to work!!!
The Finnigans, my AWA stipulates I can have a break at 6:30 pm after ten hours of hard labour.
KT, AWA? WTF, AWA is kaput!!
Ron – The AEC’s final “Turnout” figures end up in the low-to-mid 90’s, typically. CHeck 2004’s VTR here: http://results.aec.gov.au/12246/results/HouseResultsMenu-12246.htm
Flynn: can we expect all the postals to be returned? Judging by Hinkler in 2004 the total of declaration, absent and pre-poll should be slightly weaker for Labor than their booth vote which should be enough to keep Labor ahead.
$777, OK half Nelson. He is my local member. Since there has been a big swing to ABC according to Kerry, do you think Juanita Phillips would be interested in the next election to do a McKew here at Bradfield?
Glen. I admire your guts in sticking to your cause. This will be a long, hard road for you and your ilk. I wish you all the best in bringing the Liberal
Party back into the real world. We need an effective Opposition but I trust you will forgive me if I snigger at the appointment of B. Nelson.
In the conservation of 1880s sandstock brickwork it is common to use a “sacrificial” lime mortar mix. This will break down over the seasons and will require constant monitoring and renewal. There is a tendency to “re-point” the structure with modern products, which generally has the effect of undermining the intregrity of the structure. It appears to me on preliminary observations, that your structure has undergone inappropriate renovations using stong concrete. The structure is badly damaged, Glen. Raze it and re-build.
Cheers, Derek
William says (736)
“It is indeed regrettable Glen, and I wish to God there were more conservatives here like you and ESJ. Unfortunately, so many of them have been in the mould of Snoopy, Cerdic Conan and Steven Kaye: ugly, nasty, spiteful and utterly lacking in any semblance of humour or goodwill”.
William, you could also have included the lovely Isabella, who always seems intent on spewing out as much invective as she can.
As odd as it looks to those of us on the outside Nelson had the advantage of courting the backbenches over several years, a skill that Malcolm has not mastered and I bet that was the decisive factor (I did bet too – sadly not 9:1 – I think at 4.75!). It will be interesting to see how the rest of the shadow portfolios are allocated, some obvious starters from the moderate camp (eg Marise Payne) might still get outplayed by the old boys yet. On another topic, I know Kalgoorlie was mistakenly called early on the ABC, but that swing to Sharon Thiel looks very impressive I reckon considering the rest of WA – was she a better performer for the ALP or were there more factors at play? Was Jon Ford involved in the campaign any WA folk?
Further to Derek 784;
Yes Glen, you and your elk will have to work your asses off if you want to get anything above the donkey vote in 2011. All you Libs will have to pony up more resources and talk yourselves hoarse, cosying up to the media hacks and nagging business constantly for donations, or its off to the glue factory with the lot of you!
Already your party room has started to buck against the need to reign in the rightwingers by putting nelson and Bishop in the saddle – Lightfoot used to refer to Bishop as ‘a great ride’, but I don’t think he was talking about her sulky. Nay, it was after inspecting her crop back in 2003…
William, or other psephs, am I reading the AEC’s returns on Bennelong correctly to mean just about everything that needs to be counted, has been counted?
Sorry, specifically the scrutineer vote declaration bit, where it looked like there were only c. 3,000 still uncounted.
Well Glen its not going to be easy. SBS and ABC news both featured stock footage of an angry young Brendan Nelson (while still a Labor member) saying that he had always voted Labor. A gem.
Still, Nelson is on the 7.30 report right now and sounding human and intelligent. If he can stop the fighting and prevent the Liberal vote going backwards in the next term he will have done a pretty good job. He is sensibly letting some of O’Brien’s tougher questions go through to the keeper.
Amazing how high the informal vote is in Bennelong is. I guess some wouldn’t vote for Howard but could not bring themselves to vote Labor either.
YAY! I took and punk and put 30 bucks on Nelson to win….Turned into $150..awesome…Makes the victory even better…Libs have no hope!
For those of you who are wondering hown many postal votes, absent and provisional votes remain to be counted have a look at the last election results. As a rough rule of thumb the total for each class of vote is the same from election to election. In other words if there were 8000 postal votes last election expext much the same this time and the same goes for absent and provisionals.
ron brown, do you realise how PATHETIC you sound. Guess what, the elections OVER, your side LOST.
Watching Nelson on the 7:30 Report. Can I just say to the Liberal Party, “Thank You”. Rudd could not have expected a house warming present of such magnitude.
Lord Nelson on 7.30 Report just regurgitating the same old lines showing this lot will need those next couple of terms (only that if they’re lucky) in the wilderness to demonstrate a capacity to learn. Getting ready to hold the line on serfchoices and ‘not my fault so I’m not saying sorry’…..enjoy those couple of years before Malcolm gets the knife out Bren.
“790
Socrates Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Well Glen its not going to be easy. SBS and ABC news both featured stock footage of an angry young Brendan Nelson (while still a Labor member) saying that he had always voted Labor. A gem.”
That’s not the one where he shouts ‘We’re coming back!’ is it?
worst freakin Defence Minister in many a govt BTW…
The Queensland Liberal Party State Council meets in about half an Hour to try to sort out the mess created by the Santoro faction bunging on a leadership spill without having the numbers. This is despite assurances for months that they did have the numbers for a challenge.
According to them it was just a matter of get the Federal Election out of the way and the coup was on. Something weird has happened and the numbers are not there, so they are back to a four all split. Scarily similar to how even the Federal Liberal Party divided behind Nelson today.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/liberals-hands-are-tied-flegg/2007/11/29/1196037059023.html
Nelson on with Kerry at the moment. White noise.
It didn’t take the ALP long (mind you it’s a bit of a rehash of what they had for all Cabinet Ministers during the campaign)
http://www.nelsonfacts.com/
Nelson and Kerry. ZZZZ. Yep. Recall Parliament. Let the Games Begin!
When “Top Gun” Nelson was on all I could think about was where did I put that razor?
Do you reckon all those who just voted Labor, Greens etc are likely to be enticed to Liberals, by Nelson’s offer too good to refuse?
What, years of vote me?
Did the great gazzoo really say that he had a photo of Neville Bonner on his office wall as large as two doorways.
Really this leadership contest for the Libs was a contest that no one wanted to win. Its like a stationary bike race: The person that can stay still and upright the longest wins.
The result leaves everyone disappointed.
1. Nelson gets elected with a bare majority. Would be clearly underwhelmed by the show of support.
2. Turnbull is snubbed but has a substantial base of support in the Party. Still sees a glimmer down the track.
3. Abbott can sit and wait for the right moment to strike.
4. Bishop as deputy will garner support from WA, but where else. Money in WA, votes on the eastern seaboard.
I would not be surprised if Turnbull and Nelson voted for each other.
Wonder if that includes a commitment to tell us the policies.
Before or after an election?
805. Yes, and yes that means that the Liberal Party is therefore the only party that can lay claim to caring about Indigenous Affairs.
Remember if you’re not with the Liberal Party on this then obviously you have no heart. Because of course the Libs have such a history of getting things right on Indigenous Affairs that this “planned on the back of an envelope, rush in first worry about the consequences later, ignore most of the recommendation of the Children are sacred report” intervention must be the only way to do things.
I thought Nelson was still out of the country after his balls up on Iraq,Howard must have let back in to vote last Saturday.
For those who don’t know the detail of ‘the Super Hornet Mess’ from Nelson as Defence Minister.
The Super Hornet debacle perpetuated by Brendan Nelson when he was defence minister gives good insight into how he would govern. It would be executive whim, without deliberation or oversight. In other words Schmittian conservatism.
http://www.southsearepublic.org/article/1062/read/the_super_hornet_mess
That was funny, seeing Shrek having to walk to the carpark, carrying his green plastic trash bag. No more briefcases, laptops, chauffeurs, cameras.
Not even the Chasers,when you need them.
Welcome back to AWA world. Battlers. Traffic. Meaningless employment, just to pay the mortgage.
I bet Richard Pratt has already got an apology from the Libs.
Nelson is not a winner, just looking at him makes you cringe.
He has an unattractive face, and less alone makes you not want to listen to him. He looks shifty and unbelievable.
The Libs have a number of problems within their ranks, undoubtedly the WA Libs are having a significant say, along with the right and the moderates are trying to play of each group to gain their confidence.
On saying sorry Nelson struggled with the question and it seems as Kerry said this helped him win.
Turnbull as Treasurer is a good choice but it may also count against him on his progressive believes.
Labor’ cabinet looks okay but i question the significant workload of Gillard. Not disputing she has the intelligence and competence but the workload could be a bit much for a party wishing to make a difference in these areas, easily to make mistakes with such a workload. Is it possible Rudd fears her and is hoping she does make some errors, nonetheless she may do the opposite and show herself as a possible future leader.
I wonder if once Gillard gets the anti-workchoice Bill through she will dump that portfolio and concentrate on Education?
I just love that Bishop is to be IR shadow.
Bishop couldn’t even beat Smith!
She was such a great Education Minister that the slogan “Education revolution” was even being used by Howard!
I know all the young Libs get all excited by her, but c’mon, if you really think she was a good performer, explain to me why Rudd was able to sell himself as the education PM?
OK, I tipped Nelson/Bishop too:)
Nelson was best bet, as ’sacrifice’ in the ‘death seat’. If he does well, hey? a Bonus! If he does poorly, no harm done to the Party.
Only “pork” I ever got out of that govt was betting on their downfall! *chuckle*
Tho am still waiting for my last bets on Corangamite and Solomon to be finalised…*sigh*
But for info: big disappointment whinge around Canberra
None of the ACT MPs got Rudd portfolios
Geography I guess, pity to be forced to waste super-safe Labor seats on back-benchers, but if it was otherwise, the rest of the country would get the sh*ts
Maybe its “payback” for not delivering the extra Senate seat?
well *sniff*.. *sob* – we TRIED!! Not our fault that we’re so safe we sleep=walk through elections and never see a pollie of any stripe, and wouldn’t know it was voting day, until we go down to the local shops to pick up some bread and milk, and see all the cars parked at the local school…..
Then late in the campaign Rudd shows up, to say “G’Day” we hope, (being last last but not least?) but no – he glares angrily at a city of 300,000 people and tells us our jobs and microeconomy are going to be screwed Big-Time…..
Canberra is a large city, it is not a barracks for public servants. It has 70% of its workforce outside of the public sector. It has plumbers, construction workers, bus-drivers, teachers, businesses – large and small – mortgage-belters, drugs and crime problems, homelessness, poverty, public hospitals (with the same problems as everybody elses), schools and Centrelink offices.
Thats what we get for keeping the faith for 40+ years, through good times and the bad, and even then in the worse times, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer … we even voted in a local ACT Labor territory govt ….
and we finally see the guy we voted for, and got yelled at
Today, after the ministries were announced, we must be the only two safe Labor seats in the country that are not rejoicing. We got *punished*
To make matters worse, our next-door neighbours in Queanbeyan (Eden-Monaro) can now snob it over us, coz Mike Kelly got a guernsey… so our satellite “commuter” town, can now go Nyah, Nyah, Nyah… they get to keep their jobs and hold their heads high.
The only bright side of the eternal optimists around Canberra is that the Lodge will finally have residents again. Its been a twice-daily commuter “eyesore” for many years being empty’n'all, could do with some maintenance and a lick of paint though.
Tho I stupidly piped up and said it proves Rudd is a “true-blue” Aussie PM.
Canberra-bashing is a great Australian tradition, up there with vegemite.
It won’t matter much what Nelson and Bishop do or say in the next year or so – unless they manage to bring on a DD. Apart from that, no-one much is going to be listening to them. There is a bit of a focus now because of the election but as xmas comes along everybody will just switch off.
815 Rain, stop it! You’ll make me cry.
Thanks Grog at 808. Kerry OBrien was lost for words I thought. I couldnt quite hear him at the time but it was an effort to prove that he cares for the indigenous population.
815 Rain – I feel your pain.
Rain @815 Good point. Canberrans were probably better placed than most to understand the true value of the former Government. It was good to see that, despite the sure knowledge that they would be 2% one-off efficiency dividended, and meataxed in the bloaters, most Canberrans voted for their ideals rather than their pockets.
Rain, look on the bright side… you’ve got no less Ministers in Canberra now than you did before.
I have to say, I really like Kate Lundy and would choose her over a lot of the people Rudd has in his Ministry.
Memo to William Bowe… while you are in the frame of mind to moderate comments, can I ask respectfully that comments on this site about (alleged) ‘religious nutters’, ‘jackboot extremists’ and ‘fascists’ are also consigned to the moderation bin. Such comments fail your humour test, add nothing to the discussion and (most importantly) when such comments are applied to politicians of either of the major parties in this country, they are ill informed. You were (rightly) outraged by the remarks of the chief of staff of the former member for Eden Monaro. I see no reason why your outrage should not extend to those who litter your forums with similar remarks.
821, yes Lundy’s star (such as it was) certainly has fallen over the last 18 months. She would be shattered, I think, not to get sport.
So am I to take it that the way Nelson secured the leadership was by opposing Turbull’s moral position on an Aboriginal apology? That he used that to wedge a more talented man out of the position?
Enjoy this grub while he lasts.
Nelson does have a portrait of Neville Bonner in his (now former) office as big as a double door…. I saw it myself. Not that I think that speaks anything of a man other than he is a big believer in individual achievement as in compatible as that may seem compared to a lot of Indigenous communal/collectivist belief system.
See, Nelson is able to turn around and give one of his stories about how Bonner himself was from a highly disadvantaged background, yet managed to climb up the ladder in the Liberal Party and become the first Indigenous person ever elected to any Australian Parliament. And that in itself – in Nelson and LP’s logic – proves that if all Indigenous individuals would just focus on thier own success they would be able to lift their communities from obscene poverty and disadvantage etc etc….
And let’s not forget that it was Nelson (though in no small part pressured by Abbott as Workplace Relations minister at the time and the PM himself) who wanted to introduce AWAs into the higher education system as well as all other regressive policies bundled under the name of HEWRs (which – ingeniously – stands for Higher Education Workplace Reform) long before they were actually news. This included blackmailing those more impoverished universities to introduce such policies in exchange for a slice of a dedicated funding pool (and I know coz I worked in one such institution…).
Fine man, that Nelson…
The lifestory of Nelson is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Nelson
825 JB, I’m with you all the way on Nelson.
I hope Rudd does him slowly.
The Libs should have gone for Turnbull, instead they may have consigned themselves to infighting and turmoil. JB you are right, Nelson is like Howard sneaky and two faced and has some political baggage. Turnbull offers none of this but may get some as Treasurer. Going head to head with Swan will be interesting, i get the feeling he will frie Rudd.
Meant Frie Swan.
David Charles @ 822 – Quite correct, no need to use those hurtful terms, particularly when the generic expression ‘NSW Liberal Party organisation’ includes them all.
827 Always good to meet like-minded people Grog..
BTW, for what it’s worth, I think Costello was pushed. I am not fooled one bit by the PM’s endorsement of Costello in his concession speech and everyone else’s expectations that he would simply inherit the throne no sweat… In fact, this was a deliberate tactic on behalf of the Libs, their typical smoke-and-mirrors which they have perfomed, ah, so well over the past 11 3/4 years….He could have waited more than one day before withdrawing from the contest and made it more convincing but time was not on his side. It is simply obvious that he was too much part of an old pack who blundered this campaign and too unwilling to compromise on IR in the future. If that is possible at all, I think he was more hardline on IR than Howard himself….
Nelson, on the other hand, is someone with PM ambitions but too mellow for the hardliners in the LP (and I am yet to be convinced they are all but extinct – your Heffernans and Tuckeys are still around and the HR Nicholls society stil rules the roost).
As for the Indigenous issues, it is the Bennelong Society which sets the agenda for the entire Coalition (bar a former ALP strongman or two among its members).
Rudd might decide that a DD is a good idea so that Nelson can face an election.
David Charles @ 822
Are you suggesting that the Exclusive Brethren (for example) are not fair game when discussing the relationship between the Liberal party and its far right Christian constituency? Given the events of the past few weeks, I’d say that issue is front and centre for all agents of renewal within the party.
Turnbull will fry Swan? With what? I’m consistantly amazed that people have such a high impression of him. Did he display that much competence with Environment and Water Resources? Not really… I recall farmers laughing at him at some conference because he didn’t understand rainfall flow.
To fry Swan Turnbull will have to significantly improve his performance in parliament. He was not good this year. (Though being Howard’s Environment Minister was being asked to defend the indefensible).
But as a lawyer, no doubt being in opposition will suit him better – asking questions is more his game.
JB, no way was Costello pushed. He’s always been a big cry baby and he showed it again, classic born to rule – never has the expression no guts no glory been more appropriate. I wouldn’t give the Libs too much credit for careful strategic planning – note who the new Oppostion Leader is.
Thanks to the Liberals for not detracting from Rudd Labor’s big day.
Without a person of Malcom Turnbull’s charisma, wider electoral appeal and sheer common sense, the Opposition has blown its chance for a transformation into competitiveness in 2010.
Instead, the Libs have decided to fight for the next three years to prove the voters were completely stupid not to appreciate how wonderful WorkChoices really was for them.
Nelson’s obvious big selling point with Howard loyalists and W.A. kingmakers was to tell them that he was never going to say sorry about WorkChoice, Kyoto, Aboriginal intervention or stolen generations, Iraq, AWB, etc.. He’s proud of it all.
Kicking an own goal in the first minute of the game does not constitute a good start on their road back to government.
758
Julie
I have to put my hand up Julie, (and paid my dues to William too.)
Is it even legal to fry a swan? It’s probably safer, anyway, to get it in a half nelson and call for a bishop.
Kerry was so bored by Nelson that he fell asleep and began mumbling about Malcolm Fraser
Neilbris… I bet you journalists long for the days of Paul Keating’s press conferences.
758
Julie
And by the way, Half Nelson was just about 9:1 too, yummy. Once Abbott was out, it was a much easier decision, but never trusting Malvolio of Mayo not to ponce in to save them from MalBull at the last minute, I slung a $10 covering bet on him at near 300 to 1.
Fun, really.
Grog, agreement again.
Turnbull is yet another classical Liberal. Personal challenge is the name of the game. The man is a multimillionaire. The only thing he has not got is the ultimate in political power, although he is well on his way towards obtaining it. Perhaps this will actually work in his favour and perhaps he will become the leader in time to actually win the elections for the Coalition in 2013 (or whenever). Perhaps he should be really really happy he was not elected to leaad this time around – because Nelson will lose the 2010 election provided he stays put and provided there is a miracle equivalent to the immaculate conception.
I would not underestimate Swan though – I think he was second behind Rudd in the ALP leadership stakes.
LETP. we ALL long for Keating’s press conferences
831 Yes, the Bennelong Society is a strange organisation and I could never understand how Maroochy Barambah got to be a founding member.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bennelong_Society
Actually my last sentence in 2 par should read ‘provided there is NOT a miracle equivalent to immacualte conception.’
Emily – having Nelson as a leader is BRILLIANT strategy: they KNOW they will lose so they might as well pick the biggest loser to lead them and save the good one for later… Turnbull losing the 2010 election would be a blow too big to take…
tuckeyfacts.com is still unregistered – the ALP should be thinking outside the box!
Turnbull is their most competent MP the Libs have, the rest are pathetic. He at least saw reality straight after the election and realised the policies the Libs should support, this alone shows significant political judgement , the rest of them still have not come to terms with defeat and seem to willing to fight amongst themselves. l don’t Turnbull his background speaks for itself but an interesting thing which came to mind the other day was if he did become leader Labor should bring forth the Republic baby again and just see how Turnbull handles it with a list of people within his party ( National Party) who are against it, i fancy they will implode.
Sorry, meant i don’t like Turnbull
JB – fair call, but I still think you’re giving them too much credit!
pynefacts.com is registered to a nursing home in Kensington Gardens. (Also to a plastic comb manufacturer in Thailand.)
I think only royalty were allowed to eat Swan. Though my ancestors in the north-east of Tasmania (Aboriginal society being unware of European sumptuary regulations) apparently use to eat them. So its ok for monarchs and hunter gatherers, not the presumptious bourgeoisie.
David Charles 822
“can I ask respectfully that comments on this site about (alleged) ‘religious nutters’, ‘jackboot extremists’ and ‘fascists’ are also consigned to the moderation bin.”
Up to a point I agree with you. Comments that are racist, sexist, denigrate people over personal characteristics, or slur by association with infamous groups such as “Nazi” or “Stalinist” should be out. So to me, of your jibs, “fascist” may be out, but religious nutter/extremist, jackboot extremist etc seem to me OK. But surely beyond that, colour and humour are OK? Is there no room for wit? I think humour is one of our best weapons against the bully.
I think the context matters too. Indeed, similar terms to yours are used by many Liberals to attack union officials. One person’s jackboot extremist is another person’s union official, one person’s religious nutter is another’s, well, Tony Abbott.
I also agree we should be consistent and not hypocritical. As Liberals might recall, the former PM himself started his term in office by decrying political correctness, then at best doing nothing to stop his leiutenants using all sorts of appalling smears over the years, culminating in the Lindsey disgrace. I’d hardly apologise for calling that the work of jackboot extremists. They were embarrassed they were caught; not for what they are.
The problem with accepting a loss in 2010 so Turnbull can sweep in is that there is no artificial compression of Turnbulls lead in Wentworth – a good candidate in Wentworth and Nelson performing badly enough could results in another 2 for 1 Election wipeout.
DRAFT DISCUSSION PAPER.
PRIOR TO SUBMISSION TO MR KEVIN RUDD, PRIME MINISTER ELECT.
‘HOW TO GET TO SORRY’. Suggested Action Plan, Time Line.
BACKGROUND: Convention is that the Governor General has an expected tenure of 5 years.
Major-General Michael Jeffery (remember him?) was commissioned Governor General on 11 August 2003.
To serve the remainder of the former GG’s term, that is, three years.
As of 29/11/07, 4 years, 109 days served ( no comment.) 5 years due to expire in mid 2008.
As of December 2007, GG permitted to resume his duties in the position. Courtesy PM of Australia.
PROPOSED STRATEGY:
Momentum political and active, occurs in addressing indigenous issues. NT intervention reviewed and reshaped.
In consultation with stakeholders.
Sorry Legislation flagged. Consultation occurs. Noel Pearson mollified.
Opinion sought in private over logical person for next GG.
Sorry Legislation, of whatever type, is framed.
Date nominated as to its being put before the House.
Current GG announces intended retirement date.
Next GG decision announced.
Professor Lowitja O’Donohue OA. First woman. First aboriginal. National Living Treasure.
Last Australian Governor General. Full circle.
Sorry Legislation passes through HOR, supported by Malcolm Turnbull, Leader of the Opposition, then Senate.
New Governor General Lowitja O’Donohue signs Legislation. Great fanfare.
TEMPUS FUGIT: Republic put forward as issue for next election. Referendum. New round of suggestions for the Flag.
Rudd Government re elected to second term. Terms of Referendum framed and announced.
President to be elected by the people. Candidates put forward.
Include: Julian Burnside QC. Tim Costello. Malcolm Fraser. Ian Chappell. Fiona Stanley. William Deane. William Bowe. Possum. Decision made, by the people.
CONCLUSION: Republic comes into being. More great fanfare.
Former Monarch of Australia attends to anoint decision of the Australian people ( Look, don’t touch, Kevin.)
Sydney Harbour Bridge closed for Reconciliation walk.
CC: Pollbludgers, Possum Comitati.
Heather Ridout on television again, probably about to say how magnificent this new government will be, crawler she is, no one from the Labor cabinet should speak to her.
Nelson Flip flop Number one
http://dailyflute.com/?p=1338
Heather’s on a lot stronger ground that Peter Hendy…
Not sure if anyone’s posted this – I was watching PJK goingon about ACME fightback and I saw tis “top 10 moments in Australian Politics”.
Quite good really:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMq0tzfmc3Y&feature=related
Agree, but both sang the workchoices tune and both should be left to talk to themselves, would not surprise me one or the other becomes a Lib candidate.
Yes I vaguely recall reading one article this week where Ridout went to pains to describe herself and her organisation as “politically neutral”. LOL
Me thinks she protests too much. How stupid do they think people are?
Ridout is actually meant to be one of the more neutral leaders of business lobbies. Note that her lobby group did not donate to the pro-WorkChoices campaign and urged other groups not to either.
Really, what she’s doing is representing her members. It’s in her members’ best interests for WorkChoices to stay so that’s what she’ll advocate. Just as its seen to be in the interest of the ACTU’s members for them to advocate the abolition of WorkChoices.
True though that for a while it seemed Roll out Ridout was there to be interviewed in every union scare story the Australian could come up with. Remember the one about builders working in “Risk of Rudd” clauses?
“On the Saturday evening before the election, Kevin Rudd was in Melbourne. It was an opportunity for some time off, an early night after five weeks of tough campaigning. Instead, Rudd went on to the streets to visit a soup kitchen and talk to the homeless people who rely on it. And he spent time at a homeless shelter, listening to the stories of the residents. There were no cameras, no reporters. The media were not told about the outing. It was not about votes. But it said a lot about the man who would be swept into the prime ministership a week later.”
“But the bloke offering “new leadership” also has the kind of concerns Labor leaders are supposed to have. Rudd is certainly, as he claims, an economic conservative, but he nevertheless has more in common with Tim Costello than with Peter. And the commentary suggesting he is a John Howard clone – a younger version of the PM the voters have so emphatically rejected – is mistaken.”
http://thebulletinelection.ninemsn.com.au/election_that_changes_everything.htm
Socrates…agree,and important to be able to discuss the characteristics of both Fascism and Communism as well as capitalism and socialism.
(Have we been backing away from the reds under the bed into the arms of fascism ?)
Found this eye-opener -www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
not just the characteristics but also the article “We thought we were free” .
Now to find something at the other end of the spectrum.
You kidding me LTEP, yes she did not support an advertising campaign but i do remember her on TV supporting workchoices and she did over and over. Yes she speaks for her group but should not go around being political and she was. She is now on television talking the economic rationalist line, taking skilled migrants from countries who lack such skills workers themselves, Ridout is one of those people who has never struggled in her life and has no idea of what it is like to struggle.
LETP: There’s a lot of small businesses that are glad to see Work Choices given the flick.
Crikey Whitey….you’ve got a good bead on Rudd’s knack of boring everyone witless with what were causes of inspiration!
I for one don’t trust people with religious hats who care about the poor what agendas do they have.
I really can’t imagine Brendan Nelson will last three years. I give him two max.
In the meantime Malcolm Turnbull will prove himself a capable money man as shadow Treasurer and demonstrate that he is capable of running the Opposition.
He will still have to wait a while to be PM unless there is a Depression. Some gloomy talk around to which I don’t subscribe. The new economy will be driven not by war and war preparedness as the American economy is currently but by the urgent need to address climate change. There will be massive new investments.
834
Lose the election please
If you can find it, Alan Ramsey did a monumental job on Malbull when he dared to slag Head of Treasury, when Ken Henry came out to say the $10 billion on the back of the envelope had never even been submitted to his department.
Malbull made some stupid comments about how he was dealing with “real people who had dirt under their fingernails”.
Ramsey’s piece was about Ken Henry’s childhood and his formative experiences. It was a slamming indictment of Malbull’s self-importance, and one of the best pieces of journalism I’ve read this year.
Do not fear, Turnbull is so very full of himself that he will get his turn to choke on his own ego.
Clive Hamilton creaming Ridout on television, he should be a cabinet secretary or advisor to this government, so much sense.
marky, I think his agenda is to lead a government that cares about the poor.
Finally watched the 7:30 Report from the ABC website. God Nelson is a bore. And who really thinks the leopard has changed its spots over night and become a more moderate party? Looks like they will oppose any IR changes, Aboriginal intervention and apologising to the Stolen Generation. Add to this that Bishop is deputy and IR shadow spokesperson just sums up what they have learnt from the weekend. Absolutely zero!!!
Well, in my view, it’s just going to be an absolute laugh a minute over the next few years. The Q’l'd Libs. are eating themselves, the W.A. Libs are doing a similiar implosion, N.S.W. Libs. are in the thrall of ghastly neo con religious wing nuts. Who knows about S.A.? Heather Ridout thinks the Labor line on industrial relations is admirable! Gawd! And Brendon Nelson- who got a universal total crack up laughing attack across my entire work place – when announced as Opposition Leader!
Crikey Whitey – wouldn’t that be terrific for Prof Lowitja get a top job. But it’s a bit of white fella dreamin’ if you think PM Rudd will be rushing into symbolism of that degree. Just think back to last week and his contortions on the radio about Sorry.
As for the Presidential candidates you list, agree with the lot, except Ian Chappell – great cricket captain, but only good at leading those who agree with him. Better leave out his brother Greg too, after the recent ABC show about his tenure in India as their coach. It wasn’t a triumph of engagement with new peoples.
You talking about Tim Costello Grog?
869 KR. I for one don’t fear Turnbull. Too many ALP supporters see him as a kind of Albert Speer of the Liberal party – you know, “the good Liberal”. Mostly this is based on his head of the Republican cause.
Don’t forget Costello is a Republican as well.
Turnbull stood up to be counted with John Howard and everything he stood for.
I for one dont mind the crazy nutjobs on this blog whose line of attack is personal abuse, I take that as a sign of a weak argument.
What is sad that we have lost the middle of the road – the Oakeshott’s, Hugo’s etc. It seems in many ways the blog is now dominated by cheerleaders and Labor job seekers.
Oh well!
Recent research Grog suggests Speer was anything but the good nazi.
Marky – I assumed you were referring to the Bulletin Article:
“As part of the most negative campaign ever seen in this country, John Howard and his lieutenants had tried to portray the Labor leader as a politician bereft of genuine beliefs. Tony Abbott, shameless as always, even tried to cast doubt on Rudd’s Christian faith. But Australia’s new prime minister has strong principles. Christian principles. He believes in good works, and he practises what he preaches.”
878 ESJ. Exactly.
Watch the 7:30 Report, Nelson is a disaster. We are back to the crap over sorry. Mean spirited nonsense.
The lodge handover – they actually look genuinely happy ???
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200711/r207471_792307.jpg
Marky Marky – I was in the audience for this program, and Clive Hamilton was talking nonsense. Apparently we have no skills crisis, we should have zero net immigration and we have no ageing workforce.
I’m usually sympathetic to his ideas, but he was off with the pixies tonight.
ESJ
I’d be sorry to see you go from this blog and enjoy your verbal jousts.
And while my schardenfreud-meter has been off the scale since about 6.30pm Saturday, personally I’d also hate to see this blog lose the ability to sniff out the stench of rotting fish that often eminates from the HQ of NSW Labor as well.
Therese Rein always looks happy.
marky marky @ 867. It’s a bit complicated really and usually requires sittting with such a person for some time, listening, trying to clarify if they are clearly nuts, or actually have something to say. Sadly, most people who think they are the second coming of whatever deity they believe in, are just certifiable, tho’ sometimes we can talk them into some things that help their lives be less tortured. Jeez, you people are interesting to speak with. I thought I could just bugger off!
They were probably impressed by how clean it was. Hardly lived in for 11 years.
Has this thread been converted to a Lack-of-Victory Lap for ESJ?
ShowsOn
Its our left-wing compassion coming out – thats why we form more tolerant governments!
ESJ @ 877 – I wouldn’t worry too much – it’s ok. I get the impression that there are a few non-party members here. As a confirmed non-member all my life I like to read the posts of others whose principles are not hanging on a party hook inside a branch meeting door . That’s not to say that party members are not worth reading – most are, although the tunnel-visioned of both sides are tiresome at times. And what’s the point of becoming personally abusive? One’s argument is lost immediately.
I’m not surprised that Greg Combet has got this new little jobbie as defence procurement parly sect. It says to me that Kev wants out of the Super Hornet contract and Combet has the brains and the brawn to do it. What joy that the new Opposition Leader is Mr Super Hornet himself!
I used to call Nelson the Minister for Saluting Flagpoles, but might have to go with the Super Horn moniker now.
887 [They were probably impressed by how clean it was. Hardly lived in for 11 years.]
I thought they were expressing delight about how cheap the rent is.
Geez that Sheahan guy on Difference of Opinion s***ts me. I sat through a “Gen Y” seminar of his a year or so back (a forced exercise). He is all form and no substance. Wait for him to mention his latest book.
Charles he is absolutely right, it is a beat up. We have over 30 per cent of our workforce who are working casually Charles and cannot get full time jobs, i work with a number.
I also work with people who have degrees in business, and working casually. Charles get fair dinkum. Have you heard of the hidden unemployment- you only have work about 4 hours a fortnight? to not be counted as unemployed. The rate is deceptive. We may have a skills crisis in certain areas, but why as Clive rightly points out look at what we are doing in our uni’s making the point scoring systems for courses so high and restrictive that no one can enter them. We need to employ our own and provide fairness in the workplace by having people who are working long hours, working a little less and people working few hours taking up the slack. Charles you are wrong.
Isn’t it O.K. that Kevvie & his beloved said a polite goodbye?
Marky Marky, who is Charles?
Sorry Charlie. There has been a Charles on this blog and for some reason got mixed up. Thought you were little left for him.
866 Neilbris
Looking for positive feedback. Just skip me if you’re bored.
I admire the fact that Kevvie and his beloved were always noice, always said ‘Mr Howard’ and ‘Mrs Howard’ whereas JohnandJanette were as rude as could be. It’s a matter of discipline, not niceness.
Nico- one gets the feeling that he likes hearing his voice.
Donation made, thanks William
891 What joy that the new Opposition Leader is Mr Super Hornet himself!
Yes, I think that Mr Super Hornet it is the sort of nickname that Nelson would love. He will like it even better next year when he finds the name has stuck but the contract been set free. Combet would relish the task of cleaning up the mess left by Mr Super Hornet. In fact if you haven’t nailed down the title with super glue or copyright, I might just borrow the title for my own political purposes.
How many portfolios do each of the Queensland Libs have?
Sorry Marky, it was nit-picking.
We do have underemployment, mate, but it is concentrated amongst the lowest-skilled parts of the workforce. We DO have critical shortages of skilled labour.
The best thing we can do about this is simple – educate people and then educate them some more. However, the reality is that, like nearly all developed countries, we have a low birthrate. That means that immigration is going to continue to play a critical role in our economy for the foreseeable future. Hamilton didn’t say the words – ‘net zero immigration’ – but what he was arguing for was essentially the same as what clowns like One Nation propose. He has his head in the sand if he doesn’t think that an ageing workforce is going to affect our quality of life.
TO HENRY BOWE
per aec site ‘declaration vote srutiny’
Many ‘marginal LCP seats have LARGE “absentee” envelopes issued but NIL received
eg. Macquarie 5365
Lindsay 5210
Corangamite 5579
does this mean , they are still to be received by aec ?
Harry & Marky – . The question is how much do you want medieval superstition to inform decisions that directly affect the whole electorate, most of whom have moved on? Rudd should drop the religious thing from the public eye – it must not become relevant to his decision-making.
I cannot abide the real American pre-condition for political office being religious belief. I think we are moving in that direction too. The problem with it is that a general tolerance of ‘moderate’ religious types gives cover to religious extremists, such as the neo-cons in the US. Have you read about the Mormon candidate in the US? -talk about freaky. But then 70% of Americans believe in creation. Oh, dear …
Tend to agree, people should not be working until they die on the shopfloor.
Brendan Nelson:
Leader of the Opposition & Shadow Minister for HUGE portraits of Neville Bonner
Harry “Snapper” Organs says –
Actually I reckon you’ll also find quite a few incidences in human history where the so-called nut-jobs and ‘extremists’ actually turn out to have been completely right. With the real nut-jobs actually being the status quo…
Anyone heard of Galileo and the Church? Earth the centre of the universe and all that…
There you go, an organisation that was acting on behalf of the ‘first coming’ (long since dead) to suppress a bit of real knowledge (a real fact!) that would transform peoples ideas about their world.
Damn those bloody nut-jobs eh, and their so-called tele-scopes.
Just because most people believe something, doesn’t actually mean that is the way world actually is.
Sadly perhaps, the majority could be just as likely deluded as a minority, it is called human stupidity. Which again perhaps sadly, appears to be the only universal human attribute. Oh, and smiling.
The fact is that smear and prejudice and closed minds have probably been one of the biggest factors in much of human misery.
“The most important lesson of history is that people don’t learn the lessons of history” Aldous Huxley
I think that the most telling thing that I saw today was Malcolm Turnbull’s slip up as he exited the party room.
“They’ll….We’ll win in 2010.”
Nelson is screwed. It’ll only take one speechwriter to be a Turnbull fan and Nelson will find himself having his own “Things that batter” moment.
Steve, spread the Mr Super Hornet thang far and wide. I certainly will. And I will borrow Annabel Crabbe’s take on Julie Bishop – Krystle Carrington. Krystle and the Super Hornet – says all one needs to.
I see little evidence of this with Rudd, what i hate though is that our politicians use religon as a form of moralistic virtue or to show a compassionate side but in the end with the policies they set they seem to be the opposite, Howard and Iraq war, Children overboard. Religion in politics i agree has no place and should be left alone.
With Tim Costello i always saw him as a fence sitter in regards with the Howard Government and could never really like him. He rarely criticised it.
Lateline announced Gavan O’Connor rather than Brendan as part of the ministry. Easy to confuse mediocre time server with talentless hack. Which is which, you ask.
7.30 report TV footage 1993 election:
Nelson on a podium saying “I’ve never voted Labor in my life”
The Liberal hard heads will NEVER allow Nelson to front an election campaign as this replay in a campaign would demolish his credibility
IF you doubt this , imagine 2007 campaign showing Rudd in 1993 saying “I’ve never voted Labor”…Howard would have demolished his credibility
Be careful what you say Ghost his brother may get his pathetic union on to you.
Ghost,
Who’s the lateline interviewee, please?
Mr Super Hornet dogged by ALP past.
Dr Nelson was elected Opposition leader today by three votes over his rival, Malcolm Turnbull.
After his victory, he said he came from a Labor family.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2105620.htm
Ally Moore with Lindsay Tanner
May I suggest a nice alliteration for the new leader, Dr Half Nelson:
Horatio Hornet
P.S. to Ghost
A spent a late night getting elephant’s trunk with Cairns two months before Whitlam beat McMahon. He’s a top bloke.
Crikey: Sorry you misunderstood. I thought what you wrote was insightful and funny. It was your parody of the managerial approach to achieving the ‘vision thing’ that I was sending up.
912 – Marky – Not a DLP govt.? I hope not. I agree about Tim C and many thousands like him. When you think about types like Abbott & Co – they are sooo devout and yet take part in decisions that obviously hurt the disadvantaged. For them religion is merely a means to control – as in Opus Dei in NSW Libs
Thanks, Double Marky.
Agree with that assessment, Cairns was great.
758, I got $9.60 on Betfair, first time I’ve ever backed a Lib and I won, does this mean I should keep supporting them?
What Jim wanted was a whole ministry for youth issues, but never got within cooee of that goal———unless you count Juni Morosi.
I thought Abbott’s attack on Rudd over Rudd’s Christianity was the lowest of low. Abbott accused Rudd of of supporting killing because Rudd voted to allow the introduction of the RU486 abortion drug.
This was an idiotic criticism by Abbott, because it pre-supposes that when life begins is a completely uncontroversial issue. Abbott seemed to be saying that every Christian must accept as a piece of dogma that two cells equals a human life, and if they don’t then they can’t call themselves Christians.
Love your work, Kirribilli Removals.
Krystle Carrington?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krystle_Carrington
If only. Kirribilli Removals.
Now, I really am looking for serious comment, criticism on my 855.
I do intend to send it to Kevin. With any comments.
A bit of a shoving may assist.
Whatever Kev prevaricated about, jaundiced view, and thanks, it is up to people like us to ensure that this is the message.
Ps Only dreamed up a few candidates. Last time I think some wanted Warnie.
Seems like the Super Hornet is already being left in Rudd’s wake. Don’t think he will be able to handle the pace of a workaholic like Rudd.
Newly elected Liberal leader Brendan Nelson says he is not in favour of the Labor plan to say sorry to Aboriginal Australians.
Prime Minister-elect Kevin Rudd says there will be a formal apology to the stolen generation of Indigenous people.
Dr Nelson says he wants to discuss the issue with his Liberal colleagues, but he says he does not see the need for an apology.
“We in my view we have no responsibility to apologise or take ownership for what was done by earlier generations,” he said.
The beaten Liberal leader candidate, Malcolm Turnbull, also supported the apology and said it was a mistake for the Howard Government to have refused to say sorry.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/29/2105652.htm?section=justin
For those that like to laugh…
The position of the QLD Liberals explained…
Mr Nicholls wants to take over from Dr Flegg, but having only 4 out of 8 votes in the party room, he could not get a spill motion passed. Prior to that both groups of 4 has seperate meetings, that the opposing 4 could not or would not attend.
Mr Nicholls says that Dr Flegg does not have the support of half of the party room (true) and that he should resign, or declare the leadership vacant and, that Dr Flegg should vote for Mr Nicholls, or abstain from voting.
Dr Flegg says that no one has more support than he himself does (also true) and that he should therefore remain as leader. Dr Flegg says that he does not actually want to be leader and is sorry that he he accepted the position in the first place, but that he will not give it up for Mr Nicholls.
Both men say that the other’s position is untenable.
Dr Flegg has offered to stand aside and hand over to his current (loyal) deputy Mark McArdle, if one of Mr Nicholl’s supporters will in turn serve Mr McArdle as deputy, however so far on Flegg loyalist Mr Stevens has indicatd a wilingness to do so. John-Paul Langbroek has indicated that he does want to be deputy, but not under Mr Mcardle.
Apparently the Liberal’s State Council is still in session and debating “whether to give the party state president Warwick Parer a vote if future leadership ballots became tied”.
Dr Flegg has indicated that if any such motion is passed and acted upon, then he will probably take the matter to court, as his advice is that such action is contrary to the constitution of the Liberal Party.
I ask the question again how many portifolios do each member of the Queensland Libs hold?
Is the story true that Nelson has been married 3 times
after saying in the 1993 election campaign on TV “I’ve never voted Liberal”)
Here’s Annabel on Julie Krystle Bishop:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/who-needs-people-skills-with-dynasty-onfreetoair/2007/11/28/1196036982623.html
I admit I liked “People Skills” better.
932 Fargo61, the bit that you left out is that Parer is the Former Minister for coal who doesn’t believe in standing down for any reason when it is Parer himself under pressure but now he demands Flegg stand down.
He’ll find out what work really is then because there is a lot of it. Not only the SHs, but the F-35s are totally inadequate as F-111 replacements (which don’t need replacing anyway), and may end up not be a match for the Su-30s that are popping up throughout the our region, though to be fair it was Robert Hill and JWH who lumbered us with the F-35 deal. Then there are the question marks over the second hand tanks, problems with some of the army’s most basic weaponry, not enough air refuelers, still no choppers for the navy frigates, ……..
Yes, Ron Brown, Brendan Nelson has been married 3 times.
Beautiful, Kirribilli Removals (auspiciously sharing initials with the PM I notice). How about working on one for ms bishop?
Julie Bishop:Alas, poor johnny. i knew him, horatio.(exeunt stage right)
So what are the chances one of the wives is going to come out and do a Mrs Hewson No1 on Sixty Minutes at an opportune time?
ShowsOn – 927 – Remember Santamaria, and Brian Harradine.. Abbott is cast in the same mould. Kevin Andrews also wears his fantasy world on his sleeve. We certainly do not want “me too”on this front. How many irrational believers are there on the Rudd front bench I wonder? Having a quick just now it seems there are likely to be quite a few non-believers among them, which is comforting, if not only because non-believers tend to be more intelligent! (myself excluded from sample)
God I love John Hewson – “We hawven’t sween the bwest of Bwenden Newlson”
933 Marky Marky, Here is the whole Qld coalition.
http://qldcoalition.org.au/people/default.aspx
Fargo61,
It only makes sense if there is something happening outside the parliamentary party.
For example, the Leaders vote of the parliamentary party has a specific vote in another forum which the agitators need and the defenders think they must protect.
It is all a bit surreal. The classic arguing about the spoils of irrelevance. But, hey, it keeps them off the street and small furry animal are safe.
Now i know what happened to those Doctors wives’…
Poll Results
Who said that online poll results are unreliable? … From the Courier Mail website.
Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:
Who would be the best person to lead the State Liberals?
Bruce Flegg 4% (127 votes)
Tim Nicholls 17% (464 votes)
John Paul Langbroek 5% (138 votes)
Mickey Mouse 72% (1878 votes)
Sum votes: Total votes: 2607 votes so far
Tigger would`ve romped it in.
945 The Liberal member for Currumbin on the Gold Coast Jann Stuckey is a Doctor’s wife too.
I think Mickey needs to come out boldly and either run or support the leadership.
Greatness awaits!
Marky Marky, I just looked it up. Remember that the Nationals and Liberals are still in Coalition in opposition in Queensland, so a majority of shadows are Nationals MPs.
Bruce Flegg is Shadow Treasurer. John-Paul Langbroek is Shadow Health Minister. Mark McArdle is Shadow Attorney-General and Shadow Minister for Justice and Fair Trading. Tim Nicholls is Shadow Minister for Transport and Traffic Management, Trade, Employment and Industrial Relations. Ray Stevens is Shadow Minister for Housing Affordability and Public Works, Information and Communication Technology. Janet Stuckey is Shadow Minister for Child Safety and Women. The other two Liberal MPs are backbenchers.
Fargo you forgot goofy.
855
Crikey Whitey Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
DRAFT DISCUSSION PAPER.
PRIOR TO SUBMISSION TO MR KEVIN RUDD, PRIME MINISTER ELECT.
‘HOW TO GET TO SORRY’. Suggested Action Plan, Time Line.
COMMENT on appointing an Aborigine as GG
Sorry Crikey , terrible idea
I can not think of much more insulting to Aborigines
because the position of GG is symbolic of the very British Empire that in
Aboriginal eyes invaded their land
COMMENT on direct election of a President
Neither party agrees because it ‘implys’ too much power in the winning President
COMMENT on ’sorry’ procedure
say ’sorry’….Howard thought it was hard but it isn’t
ALL Aborigines & ALL other Aussies know our generation did not participate & are not responsible but that does not stop us from saying ’sorry’
EVEN when most of the kids were taken away by our past generations in good faith to protect them
Any comments ?
Now that Labor are in Government will any information about the Patricks dispute be brought out to the public?
Did I miss something? in the last day or so people seem to be taking the other MM on this blog seriously … meanwhile back at the main game Lindsay Tanner was impressive as usual on Lateline tonight.
And they meet in a cublicle at Queensland Parliament House,
thanks Charlie and i thought Julia Gillard had it tough.
Should their also be a portfolio called skills in leadership and innovation.
950 Charlie, and Nicholls and Stevens sham shadow portfolios doesn’t correspond with any state government portfolio either.
DOGS,
I think Labor will steer clear from anything to do with the Patricks dispute – it was almost 10 years ago and the current historical narrative favours the Labor/Union perspective (primarily thanks to Bastard Boys).
Fargo – Fantastic Courier poll – every online poll should include Mickey or Peter Brady just as a ‘control’ choice – especially at the ex-gg organs, and Sky, Ch9, Ch7 …
Perhaps for issues not involving the choice of a person, the option – “my shiny metal arse” or similar should be offered
BTW – a question for trivia buffs like Adam. Has there ever been a younger federal minister than Kate Ellis?
Interesting, as I thought, Nelson. And as I thought, this would be the pairing.
Hard yards against Julie and Co, if he really intends to moderate. Hard yards.
Moderation or retraction is difficult.
Take back his first wife. If she would have him. Take back his Catholicism, if they would have him.Take back his Labor background, if they would have him. Take back his Union leader, AMA, if they would have him.
You guys are a disgrace, do you know the context of what he said, he was backing Hewson and was against Keating who had f’ed the health system royally he was merely saying how upset he was with Labor and that he was backing the Libs not because he was a toff or had anything to gain out of it but because Labor had f’ed the health system.
Anyway i thought Rudd didn’t use smear and fear???
Excellent point, Ron Brown at 855
‘I can not think of much more insulting to Aborigines
because the position of GG is symbolic of the very British Empire’
Considering your other.
Glen, it wasn’t Rudd who used that footage – it was the 7.30 report.
Steve #943. that web site for QLD coalition is a DORK gallery if I’ve ever seen one!
Crikey agree he has so much baggage. Lord 1/2 Nelson surely can not last to front the 2010 election ? (turnbull wanted the job but nelson has done him a favor) ??
959,
Off the top, posssibly Gary Punch.
No no Triffid people were saying that they’d never allow Nelson to fight an election because of that footage.
God the Health system is a mess, maybe a GP for a leader aint so bad.
Im liking Nelson more and more now but thats just me.
Labor never stuffed up the Health system in Victoria Glen, It was Jeff Kennett privatising, cutting beds, contracting staff, and introducing a system called a Case Mix. But of course you had private insurance you galah and of course the AMA were their as usual caring not for the patient but those poor doctors.
Glen, I agree its outrageously funny, sorry outrageous, that they dredged up that unfortunate film of Nelson screaming “I’ve Never Voted Liberal In My Life!”. But you shouldn’t aim your outrage at Labor. The footage was run by SBS, ABC and Channel Ten news tonight. You just have to convince them that its all a misunderstanding and that Brendan’s “True Blue”. Good luck.
964 Aussieguru Just wait until Springborg tackles Seeney for Leadership of the Opposition that is when the feathers will start to fly. That’s when it will get ugly.
Glen, yes, but to link this argument with Rudd has no relevance.
961
Glen Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
You guys are a disgrace, do you know the context of what he said
Tell me what context don’t you understand in Lord 1/2 Nelson’s words : ” I have
NEVER voted Liberal in my life”
Brendan Nelson is a stop gap leader, while it lasts enjoy because he is a dud.
http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/a/australia/2007/pendulum2007.txt
My new Mackerras pendulum
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5775485,00.jpg
Brendan is more Aussie than Ruddy boy take alook, redneck vote locked in
LTEP? Do I detect a note of optimism in your posts, after all those weeks of “we’ll all be rooned, ere the year is out”. ?
Speaking for myself, I thought your Said Hanrahan impression was a wonderful addition to cultural diversity, couldn’t understand why so many got all cranky about it
Thanks also to those wishing comfort, sharing the capital’s pain/shame, its much appreciated!
821: Lose the election please Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Rain, look on the bright side… you’ve got no less Ministers in Canberra now than you did before.
Actually, they only live here while in session, and in residences set aside in various suburbs. Pauline Hanson was the most unusual I know of though, she chose to live here permanently and brought her family. A few blocks from me. Even more unusual and raised a lot of eyebrows, she chose to send her kids to the local public high-school? The largest high-school with a very mixed bag of class/race population, with the highest crime rates as well. All parents received a letter telling of these new enrollments, and would be discussing it at the next P&C meeting…the Principal was very impressed, almost full turn-out at that P&C meeting *chuckle*
As for the APS, most of the older public servants who’ve been through this before aren’t worried or frightened, indeed look forward to it, knowing exactly which crap needs to be to cut without batting an eye to meet Rudd’s targets, will take great pleasure in removing those obscene wastes of tax-payers money, and looking forward to finally being able to work on sensible national policies, programs and services – raring to go to hit the ground running
Some of the “old guard” SES have already gone, so many “retirements” announced on All Staff messages in the last month or two? Who would have thought so many had 55-60th birthdays in Oct/Nov? *grin*. One was circulated with an mp3 music file attached, with the song “Another one bites the dust”
But these are a minority of voters in a large city.
Its younger ones who are terrified, they’ve known nothing else, and being lower level were more likely to be protected from the politicisation by their mid-level managers, and all those other majority of Canberran residents who work outside the APS are worried about flow-on effects to the local city micro-economy business and service sectors etc.
Even the social services sector, started freaking out about a sudden increase in poverty like we had in 96 – I remember, my own home became an emergency foster home for a stream of kids. Wannabe suicides of 12 year olds off Commonwealth Bridge in the middle of a Canberran winter anyone?
our DoCS is in about the same shape as NSW’s even if we don’t get into national newslines with dead babies littering the lawns of Parliament House. Our public hospitals arent much better than Royal North Shore. Canberra city gets a lot of “rural refugees”, leaving the surrounding NSW country areas looking for work etc. We also have a sizeable and active Aboriginal community, and I hope Rudd remembers the protocol of Welcome to Country that Parliament House and his Lodge sits on Ngunnawal country.
The economic tsunami of 96-99 was very nasty for locals, and like the firestorm of 2003, Rudd’s implication that we were all fat-cats living the high-life at the expense of the rest of the country, and needed a meat-axe, probably didn’t go down too well in some sectors, and struck more frayed nerves than I think the ALP was aware of.
Just listened to the 7.30 Report interview: couldn’t work out where I’d heard the voice before. Then it dawned on me; it’s Pauline Hanson.
Pauline Nelson?
Glen @ 961 – why can’t you express yourself this way?:
“May I disagree with some of the earlier posts about Mr Nelson’s remarks some years ago. While these old comments by him may seem unfortunate, I feel the full context has not been appreciated, and I believe he was sincere when he made the remarks now being used against him.”
Wouldn’t that be more engaging and less unnecessarily abrasive? You try.
972
Ron Brown – He was backing Hewson, he was explaining how angry he was with Labor and Keating in 1993 about the state of the health system. He was explaining that his support of Hewson was genuine Ron, gee you can be stupid sometimes.
Laurence Springers wants it back? where did you get ‘the dirt’ Steve?
So that means preferences from One Nation next election Glen?
Rain was on earlier complaining about lack of Ministers from Canberra. Turns out there are four from QLD and four axed.
Queensland has four obvious winners in the new government ministry, including Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan, but has four casualties, including shadow homeland security minister Arch Bevis.
Mr Bevis, who won the seat of Brisbane in 1990, is currently National Vice-President of the ALP.
Bernie Ripoll, Labor’s member for Oxley, and Kirsten Livermore, the member for Capricornia, have also lost their positions as parliamentary secretaries, while former ageing, disabilities and carers spokesperson Senator Jan McLucas is out of the revamped Rudd Ministry, which was unveiled this morning.
Craig Emerson, the member for Rankin, keeps his responsibility for small business, becoming a minister and also becomes the minister assisting new Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner on business deregulation.
Queensland Senator Joe Ludwig, formerly shadow attorney-general, becomes the minister for human services, an area which Mr Rudd described as “a major area of reform, yet to be addressed” in his comments today.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/queenslands-winners-and-losers/2007/11/29/1196037063371.html
“God the Health system is a mess, maybe a GP for a leader aint so bad”, says Glen. Then why was the Super Hornet, MBBS, never made health minister under Howard? Too scared of the nurses?
He supported Hewson!? HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH now that is hilarious.
Glen @ 975,
I see that photo.
I think Ivan Milat!
#
977
VoterBoy of Over the Water Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Just listened to the 7.30 Report interview: couldn’t work out where I’d heard the voice before. Then it dawned on me; it’s Pauline Hanson.
Pauline Nelson?
WAS PAULINE ONE OF LORD 1/ NELSON’s 3 WIVES ???
Glen… that Ivan Milat LOL!
981
marky marky – we get them whether we want them or not but Labor get’s preferences from the Greens so i classify the Greens with One Nation in their extremities really.
ShowsOn Hewson got him in the Party…Mark Twain they obviously wanted to keep him down but not any longer.
987
Aussieguru01 – although distasteful i agree he looked like a bushranger or Ivan lol!
980 Springborg is getting more vocal all the time while Seeney just struggles in Parliament. I think Springborg feels he was robbed when his father died during the last campaign and he had to withdraw from the hustings.
979
Glen Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
972
Ron Brown – He was backing Hewson
backing Hewson ?? by saying “I have NEVER voted Liberal in my life”
Now we know why Hewson lost …its Brendon’s fault
Well it seems he should’ve skipped some of his lectures at the Flinders Medical Centre, and walked up the hill to the politics department. His explanation of what liberalism means on The 7:30 Report was a complete howler – he would’ve failed any first year politics class with that tripe.
The sad thing about the Queensland Libs is the lack of opposition, governments need something to push them and make them accountable and in many cases around Australia at present their is a lack of accountability and some arrogance in government, i certainly get that feeling about Brumby in Victoria at present.
ehehehehe you think Nelson is boring lol take a look.
“PRIME minister-elect Kevin Rudd spoke uninterrupted today for a staggering 30 minutes as he unveiled his first cabinet – but at least it wasn’t in Mandarin.
Mr Rudd almost finished after 25 minutes but remembered he had forgotten to speak about a minister – and started talking again.
Journalists’ tape recorders began clicking off in exhaustion as Mr Rudd then took questions for another 20 minutes. ”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22842483-952,00.html
Re Admiral’s pic -very similar but a simple check might separate them on examination – I hear Ivan Milat not only has pierced ears, but has a scrotum ring as well.
The Liberal Party of Menzies & Fraser would never preference Pauline Hanson but
then they stood for Liberal values …forgot Howard only stood for getting votes
Horatio Hornet on the 7.30 Report tonight was appalling – no match for Rudd. Looks like we are shaping up for three years at least of Liberal leadership speculation. Not just Turnbull & Abbott, but Costello as well if he doesn’t leave the Parliament when his 18 years service comes up on 24 March 2008 and he reaches his maximum possible parliamentary superannuation.
Ron at 855.
‘COMMENT on direct election of a President
Neither party agrees because it ‘implys’ too much power in the winning President’
Does it imply ‘power’ for the President? I thought it to be more about influence, of the decent moral kind. And our input will help Labor towards what we want, rather than what they, then or now, unknown, have in mind.
‘COMMENT on ’sorry’ procedure
say ’sorry’….Howard thought it was hard but it isn’t
ALL Aborigines & ALL other Aussies know our generation did not participate & are not responsible but that does not stop us from saying ’sorry’
True, true. I acknowledge that it isn’t necessarily hard to say sorry. But for some it is. That is why a legislative framework is, I think, imperative.
‘EVEN when most of the kids were taken away by our past generations in good faith to protect them’.
Not wishing to start a debate, so please, another day, but disagree with the good faith bit. Tony Abbott has good faith.
Thank you, Ron.
I saw on the Chaser that a relation of Ivan Milat was going to run in the election and her preferences were going to the Libs.. Every vote counts hey Glen.
Glen, you have the attention span of a gnat.
If Moses was talking about the Ten Cmmandments you would only be interested in the best three.
Our Kev may be boring, Glen, but he’s never wasted $6 billion on the Super Hornets or anything else for that matter.
Yet!
Glen i will agree with you on one thing when Rudd starts speaking he waffles on, i thought on election night he was unbearable, on and on about nothing, on the other hand old sneaky spoke well and was very gracious.
Glen quoting yet more News Ltd anti-Rudd polemic isn’t going to cut any ice here. We’ve had a whole year of that shite and no-one believes a word of it. (Has Caroline Overington been sacked yet?)
994 And you thought the Liberals were going to keep him accountable. It’s a new era Glen, it is a new league that the Liberal Party and the journalists will struggle to keep up with.
#
1000
Greensborough Growler Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Glen, you have the attention span of a gnat.
If Moses was talking about the Ten Cmmandments you would only be interested in the best three.
Only one of them mentioned “you shall ensure Howard loses his seat”
Adam,
Has there been anything anywhere from Overington since Saturday?
1001
Marktwain – he hardly wasted 6b dollars, SuperHornets are good aircraft, the US still uses them as Aircraft Carrier jets.
Oh and last time i checked Lord Nelson doesn’t like eating ear wax lol
1003
Adam – this isnt being critical of his policies just that he waffles on and on about working families and the like he doesnt get to the point i mean he’s going to have to get used to this because he’s only had to ask questions in Parliament not answer them.
Agree Adam …the ‘oz’ is very similar to ‘fox News” in the USA also owned by Murdoch….very ‘right wing’
except George Mega who I find logically critical of both Partys
I hope unlike the Victorian Parliament Labor and the Howard Government, Labor uses HOR responsibly and answers the questions because really the Howard Government treated the house with contempt.
Marky, good luck if Keating wasn’t going to do it why will Rudd?
The Australian lost its best writer on Sunday…
All I can say Glen is that the Tories had better learn to run on two or three hours sleep. If the Tories bludge along at the rate they have this year Rudd will eat them for breakfast and they will never be able to handle him.
Steve, I have a soft spot for old LS because he do’es have a genuine sincerity about himself. Pity about the rest of his crew!
Kiddies, the evil Oz just won this …
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Haneef-story-gets-Thomas-a-Gold-Walkley/2007/11/29/1196037077365.html
What an election:
1. Conservative winter over.
2. Howard got what he deserved.
3. Overington gets herself fired.
Trifecta!
Unfortunately I have no faith any Party will remedy the appalling question time in the Reps. Actually the Senate under both Labor & Liberal Governments have been a lot better
Keating used Question Time brilliantly, he wouldn’t of won the 1993 election without it.
Shows on. Has Mega George left the ‘GG’?
I think he’s referring to the death of Matt Price
1014
Marktwain Says:
November 29th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Kiddies, the evil Oz just won this …
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Han
That is 31 winners
Fancy having 31 ‘Brownlow’ medal winners OR 31 ‘Daly M’ winners
It is nothing but theatre, always has been, always will be.
No. I was referring to the passing of Matt Price.
Fantastic work, Hedley Thomas, again.
See what pushing on an issue can achieve?
Is Overington fired?
Back shortly. Hard drive full.
Talking about Murdoch, Kenneth Davison in The Age wrote an interesting piece regarding Rupert when he said and i quote
Murdoch gets his power by owning two thirds of Australia’s capital city daily news paper circulation and is reinforced by the gullibility of our politicians.
Rudd is no exception. After Murdoch run a blatant campaign in favor of the coaltion it failed to shift public opinion. Therefore Murdoch editoralised on the eve to support Labor in three of his most influential papers, to ensure he backed the winner.
In return Rudd has indicated he will willingly support much of his agenda. It remains to be seen how much transalates into commercial advantage for News Ltd.
( The Age, Monday 26 November, Page 6, Business Section).
Correction
The only 2 even writers at the ‘oz’ were George Mega & Matt Price ( a sad loss)
Glen, look and weep.
THE HOWARD Government’s controversial decision to go against the advice of Australia’s air force chiefs and buy 24 Super Hornet fighter jets is likely to be investigated by the Commonwealth Auditor-General.
Ian McPhee said he would consider examining the circumstances surrounding Defence Minister Brendan Nelson’s decision to spend $6.6 billion on the Super Hornets. If he did investigate, it would be in the 2008-09 financial year.
In response to a request for an investigation from Opposition defence spokesman Joel Fitzgibbon, Mr McPhee said the Super Hornets were a major defence aquisition. If an investigation were held, it would focus on governance issues related to the decision to buy the jets.
Last November, Dr Nelson stunned RAAF chiefs when he told cabinet’s National Security Committee that Australia needed to buy an interim fighter to ensure a “capability gap” did not emerge between the 2010 retirement of the F-111 fighter bomber and the 2013 arrival of the Joint Strike Fighter from the US.
Just weeks earlier, the nation’s two most senior air chiefs said an interim aircraft such as the F/A-18 Super Hornet was not necessary.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/08/05/1186252546263.html?s_cid=rss_
Correct, Ron Brown, and most of the winners are photographers. Picture tells a thousand words, I think the saying goes. We journos really are up ourselves.
That being said, Thomas’ series on Haneef was good. Balanced out the absolute tripe his Newsie colleague, Paula Doneman, did on the “SHOCK TERRORIST PHOTOS OF GOLD COAST APARTMENT BLOCK AND GLORIOUS OCEAN VIEWS” scuppered scoop. That was hilarious. Not.
Very cynical of 3 Murdoch papers to support Rudd on election eve …AFTER producing a negative Labor presentation during the campaign
How disappointing that the likes of Nelson, Bishop and Haase will go down in history having voted against the sorry to the stolen generation people. It will happen soon enough anyway regardless of their good or ill will. What a mean bunch. By the way some of these stolen generation people have actually been enormous contributors to our society despite the damage done in their childhoods.
1009 Marky -[ I hope unlike the Victorian Parliament Labor and the Howard Government, Labor uses HOR responsibly and answers the questions because really the Howard Government treated the house with contempt.]
They did indeed treat the House with contempt – continuing a trend begun under the previous Labor govt it must be said, but the extent to which it was taken over the past 11 years is not comparable.
Generally though – we can go on about personalities and details, but the main game now is – can the Rudd govt bring back the ‘fair go’? Can they bring back more of our lost laconic egalitarian atmosphere that can reduce the difference between the poorest group and the richest? They have not started well in education policy, which is where this starts, and will continue the obscenity of open slather for first-start religious schools apparently. If any area needs a rethink and a good dose of leadership, it’s this one. No-one here can applaud the ‘education revolution’ if any mug group of freaks can continue to apply for and get govt money to start a new school. This has been going on for not quite 11 years, but for a good part of it. If anything will hasten the classification of Aussie society it will be a failure by the new Govt to fix that. I know they won’t cancel state aid, but the rort of the start-ups and the excesses of across-the-board subsidies must go.
Whew, sorry about the rant.
Ron- Murdoch gets governments and ousts them except Hewson in 1993 and Kennett 1999 he gets all governments to do what he wants.
example of Murdoch bias:
the $420 million ‘regional rorts affair” did NOT get published in the Melbourne sun at all
the $281 million tax payer funded work choices adds got no lead articles
the AMA in Tassie repeatedly said the mersey hospital transfer could not go ahead
as there were not enough speciaists
the WA union leader expelled in the campaign got front page in the Melbourne Sun
etc
but Garretts joke got headlines despite a channel 9 witness supporting Garrett version
WTF is going on in McEwan. No up date for 2 days. Everything, something or nothing is going on.
Very little about Jackie Kelly Gaffe in the Melbourne Papers as well and for memory not on front page of Australian.
Glen just for the record here is the Australians take on the Super Hornet wasteful scam from Nelson.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21342853-31477,00.html
Hahahahahaha….me first
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1033
marky marky Says:
November 30th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Very little about Jackie Kelly Gaffe in the Melbourne Papers as well and for memory not on front page of Australian.
You are 100% right
As you say the bias is not only what is written but also what storys are omited
Try not to read his papers, never buy them, just look at headlines. But Murdoch is the person who inhibits change for the better in this country and it is time our governments did something about his influence.
1033 – they must have quarantined it to Sydney – the Sydney Tele had plenty of it. I wish I’d known the full reporting picture because I upped my forecast of ALP seats from 100 to 104 on the back of the Lindsay spectacular!
Oh Dear, Trouble in paradise for the Federal Opposition!
THE Queensland Nationals have thrown another match into the firestorm engulfing conservative politics, threatening yesterday to walk away from the federal Coalition.
At the end of a week which has upended the national political landscape, Nationals powerbrokers will meet today to discuss their radical threat to effectively create a new party in Federal Parliament if maverick Queensland Senator Barnaby Joyce is not promoted.
Meanwhile the state Liberal Party remains deadlocked over its leadership options as Bruce Flegg continues to defy the wishes of the executive and refuses to quit.
And the federal Liberal Party is set for a testing time under its new leader Brendan Nelson, who yesterday edged out ambitious former minister Malcolm Turnbull after also seeing off a challenge from another former frontbencher Tony Abbott – who vowed to be back. Dr Nelson dodged questions about how he and new deputy Julie Bishop would guarantee stability in the party, after winning the leadership ballot by only three votes from Mr Turnbull.
“Well, you will just have to watch and see what I do and how I do it,” Dr Nelson said.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22844647-952,00.html
By the way – it wasn’t a Jackie Kelly ‘gaffe’ – it was the NSW organisation caught red-handed in what they have been doing for some years – breaking the law and every moral and ethical standard through false publications associating their rivals with bad things such as terrorism.
A week is along time in politics. Remember a week ago the Lindsay scandal was all over the media. I never realised how much of a bimbo Jackie Kelly really is.
Today we got a new cabinet ready to be sworn in & a opposition falling like 10 pin. How sweet it is!
4 Corners did a program on the Super hornets and its replacement the F35
The progam suggested that australia has had air superiority for 60 years but when the F35 arrives it will be inferior to the russian supplied equivalent many Asian countrys have ordered
leaving us for the first time in our history from 2012 lacking air superiority. The US airforce have another fighter 9think F25) which is the best in the world but will not sell it except to Israel
Ron Brown the F-18 Super Hornets are stop gaps, ie extra defence until we receive our 100 or so F-35s. You are critical of buying F-35s but if the US wont sell us F-22s what are we to do buy Russian aircraft no thankyou!
Neilbris at 921.
Your post appeared when I resumed.
SORRY! Re read it. Gotcha!