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	<title>Comments on: Toil and trouble</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: gusface</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-109453</link>
		<dc:creator>gusface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-109453</guid>
		<description>This is Connor gusfases 2nd son thanks for knocking out the baddys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is Connor gusfases 2nd son thanks for knocking out the baddys</p>
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		<title>By: Rain</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108840</link>
		<dc:creator>Rain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 02:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108840</guid>
		<description>&quot;982
steve Says: 
November 29th, 2007 at 11:32 pm 
Rain was on earlier complaining about lack of Ministers from Canberra. Turns out there are four from QLD and four axed.&quot;

But QLD didn&#039;t get slapped into the naughty corner :-(

SOK though - we&#039;ll sulk for awhile, and then get over it.

Canberra Times today is doing some sulking for all of us, at least our ACT Territory Chief Minister *loves* us! 
and Bob McMullen said &quot;Canberra has not been forgotten..&quot;

Onyer Bob :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;982<br />
steve Says:<br />
November 29th, 2007 at 11:32 pm<br />
Rain was on earlier complaining about lack of Ministers from Canberra. Turns out there are four from QLD and four axed.&#8221;</p>
<p>But QLD didn&#8217;t get slapped into the naughty corner <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-sad.png' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>SOK though &#8211; we&#8217;ll sulk for awhile, and then get over it.</p>
<p>Canberra Times today is doing some sulking for all of us, at least our ACT Territory Chief Minister *loves* us!<br />
and Bob McMullen said &#8220;Canberra has not been forgotten..&#8221;</p>
<p>Onyer Bob <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fargo61</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108699</link>
		<dc:creator>Fargo61</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108699</guid>
		<description>&quot;Queensland Liberal Party officials have given state MPs a one-week deadline to resolve their leadership row.&quot;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/30/2105683.htm

It must be difficult to secure a majority in a &#039;team&#039; eight of eight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Queensland Liberal Party officials have given state MPs a one-week deadline to resolve their leadership row.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/30/2105683.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/30/2105683.htm</a></p>
<p>It must be difficult to secure a majority in a &#8216;team&#8217; eight of eight.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Cole</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108670</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108670</guid>
		<description>Glen, the Eurofighter looks to be a reasonably capable aircraft. Certainly, we shouldn&#039;t place critical reliance upon aircraft/parts/ships/etc from any one nations - that &#039;s basic strategic thinking. The USA may not always be able and willing to supply us with parts and new aircraft.

Better would be if we did what we&#039;ve done with the ANZAC frigates and the Collins subs - build them ourselves, adapting other peoples&#039; designs to our own needs. FYI, the ANZAC is based off the German Meko-200 frigate.

Also, what&#039;s wrong with the Su-30 or the Su-35 from Russia? Or, if you really want cutting-edge, look at the MiG-35.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glen, the Eurofighter looks to be a reasonably capable aircraft. Certainly, we shouldn&#8217;t place critical reliance upon aircraft/parts/ships/etc from any one nations &#8211; that &#8217;s basic strategic thinking. The USA may not always be able and willing to supply us with parts and new aircraft.</p>
<p>Better would be if we did what we&#8217;ve done with the ANZAC frigates and the Collins subs &#8211; build them ourselves, adapting other peoples&#8217; designs to our own needs. FYI, the ANZAC is based off the German Meko-200 frigate.</p>
<p>Also, what&#8217;s wrong with the Su-30 or the Su-35 from Russia? Or, if you really want cutting-edge, look at the MiG-35.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasmine Pierce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108662</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasmine Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108662</guid>
		<description>Re: the pig heads left on the site of the proposed Muslim school in Sydney - there&#039;s no way a negative decision against the school can be viewed as anything but tainted in view of the blatant racism and bigotry behind the opponents of the application - the leaders have openly referred to Muslims as &quot;towelheads&quot; and stated &quot;We don&#039;t want their kind here&quot;

Some people have these funny ideas:

&quot;If i don&#039;t use racial/ethnic/sexist/homophobic/religious slurs I&#039;m not bigoted&quot; (No, it&#039;s your actions that make you a bigot) (also you don&#039;t get to decide what&#039;s bigoted or not - only the victims do)

&quot;If i don&#039;t intend to be a bigot then I&#039;m not one&quot; (um, yes you are a bigot if you act as one) 

They miss the clear logic that a person who is the subject of bigotry would best know what bigotry is - whether it&#039;s racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia or religious prejudice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the pig heads left on the site of the proposed Muslim school in Sydney &#8211; there&#8217;s no way a negative decision against the school can be viewed as anything but tainted in view of the blatant racism and bigotry behind the opponents of the application &#8211; the leaders have openly referred to Muslims as &#8220;towelheads&#8221; and stated &#8220;We don&#8217;t want their kind here&#8221;</p>
<p>Some people have these funny ideas:</p>
<p>&#8220;If i don&#8217;t use racial/ethnic/sexist/homophobic/religious slurs I&#8217;m not bigoted&#8221; (No, it&#8217;s your actions that make you a bigot) (also you don&#8217;t get to decide what&#8217;s bigoted or not &#8211; only the victims do)</p>
<p>&#8220;If i don&#8217;t intend to be a bigot then I&#8217;m not one&#8221; (um, yes you are a bigot if you act as one) </p>
<p>They miss the clear logic that a person who is the subject of bigotry would best know what bigotry is &#8211; whether it&#8217;s racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia or religious prejudice.</p>
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		<title>By: Crikey Whitey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108661</link>
		<dc:creator>Crikey Whitey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108661</guid>
		<description>Tony Delroy. Issue of the Day. Leadership. What the callers said.

Line return means next caller.

Delighted, looking forward. Pleased with Rudd lineup.

Old Tom, regular caller, all Labor. Scathing over Nelson. Delighted at the stupidity of this decision..

Next. Saddened, Brendan Nelson, no apology, aboriginal people.

What has been, over the past decade. Erosion and setbacks in Natural Heritage Fund. Erosion of and setbacks. Health care, dental. Rural infrastructure, rural aged care accomodation. GPs, Bush. Same as.

Maxine. Congrats. Caller returned to voting for first time in twenty years. Not particularly pleased with Labor policy. Maxine, though, motivational. Rudd campaign, very positive feel to it.  Howard campaign negative, backward looking. 
Looking forward himself.

On Peter Garrett. Voted Labor, really excited Peter in there. Agrees with aboriginal issues caller, but everyone is the same, have to go through hard times. I&#039;m excited.

Claudia, upset with media. For criticising Kev on length of speech, after seeking always short sound bites. Now complain. Therese Rein, journalists, in Canberra seeking school for her son. Made something of an if, that Therese said, and drummed it into something like they would not be living at the Lodge. 

Peter. Brendan a turncoat. Former ALP, 20 yrs. How can you trust a man who?

Compares Costello brothers. Lindsay, pamplet issue, indicative of conservative attitude, this country, they will do anything to stay in power. Tony refers back to Graham Richardson, anything it takes. Caller reverts to Bali bomber link in pamphlet.

Labor could be in a little bit of trouble. Staunch Liberal voter. From equally staunch Labor family member voters. Wondering where Labor will be in 3 years, Labor may rue where US potential recession may leave it. Kevin is brilliant young man and well intended, said most sincerely.  Not a great fan of Nelson. No concern over his changing from one party to another. Capable, but he won&#039;t be there in 3 yrs. Liberal Party has tendency to destroy and go for each other.

Dave wants a leader who won&#039;t lie, says this is what I&#039;m going to do, do it and if it stuffs up, just admit it. Caught Howard out about saying not doing and vice versa. Cites GST.  Goes on to cite AWB, Howard putting himself beyond being blamed.

Too early to talk about leadership. (This from a man who I have heard well before the election, talking of distrusting Labor). Rudd, minister for all, if he sticks to it, good, otherwise I&#039;ll be in there with to shoot him down. The lady (Julia) looks good. Education and work are allied.   

On Nelson. Looking forward to when the Panzer tanks start arriving in the country, he ordered them and he deserves to be there when they turn up.  Small man all over. Wrong decisions defence equipment. So, so happy and optimistic about Kevin Rudd. Cannabis for hemp. (not talking smoking) Clothes, rope, etc.

Caller knows Kev via Labor Party affiliation. Concerned over Kev going too far right, will they deliver on social objectives, consult with and empower the community. It is more than visiting a homeless shelter. Optimistic, but guarded.

James believes it is time for a change for a more youthful...This Liberal govt just dispensed with, thank God, as an ex infantry, this Howard Govt bought American tanks, not Leopards. American stuff tends to break down all the time, according to his mates in the armoured division.

For your project, William, in part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Delroy. Issue of the Day. Leadership. What the callers said.</p>
<p>Line return means next caller.</p>
<p>Delighted, looking forward. Pleased with Rudd lineup.</p>
<p>Old Tom, regular caller, all Labor. Scathing over Nelson. Delighted at the stupidity of this decision..</p>
<p>Next. Saddened, Brendan Nelson, no apology, aboriginal people.</p>
<p>What has been, over the past decade. Erosion and setbacks in Natural Heritage Fund. Erosion of and setbacks. Health care, dental. Rural infrastructure, rural aged care accomodation. GPs, Bush. Same as.</p>
<p>Maxine. Congrats. Caller returned to voting for first time in twenty years. Not particularly pleased with Labor policy. Maxine, though, motivational. Rudd campaign, very positive feel to it.  Howard campaign negative, backward looking.<br />
Looking forward himself.</p>
<p>On Peter Garrett. Voted Labor, really excited Peter in there. Agrees with aboriginal issues caller, but everyone is the same, have to go through hard times. I&#8217;m excited.</p>
<p>Claudia, upset with media. For criticising Kev on length of speech, after seeking always short sound bites. Now complain. Therese Rein, journalists, in Canberra seeking school for her son. Made something of an if, that Therese said, and drummed it into something like they would not be living at the Lodge. </p>
<p>Peter. Brendan a turncoat. Former ALP, 20 yrs. How can you trust a man who?</p>
<p>Compares Costello brothers. Lindsay, pamplet issue, indicative of conservative attitude, this country, they will do anything to stay in power. Tony refers back to Graham Richardson, anything it takes. Caller reverts to Bali bomber link in pamphlet.</p>
<p>Labor could be in a little bit of trouble. Staunch Liberal voter. From equally staunch Labor family member voters. Wondering where Labor will be in 3 years, Labor may rue where US potential recession may leave it. Kevin is brilliant young man and well intended, said most sincerely.  Not a great fan of Nelson. No concern over his changing from one party to another. Capable, but he won&#8217;t be there in 3 yrs. Liberal Party has tendency to destroy and go for each other.</p>
<p>Dave wants a leader who won&#8217;t lie, says this is what I&#8217;m going to do, do it and if it stuffs up, just admit it. Caught Howard out about saying not doing and vice versa. Cites GST.  Goes on to cite AWB, Howard putting himself beyond being blamed.</p>
<p>Too early to talk about leadership. (This from a man who I have heard well before the election, talking of distrusting Labor). Rudd, minister for all, if he sticks to it, good, otherwise I&#8217;ll be in there with to shoot him down. The lady (Julia) looks good. Education and work are allied.   </p>
<p>On Nelson. Looking forward to when the Panzer tanks start arriving in the country, he ordered them and he deserves to be there when they turn up.  Small man all over. Wrong decisions defence equipment. So, so happy and optimistic about Kevin Rudd. Cannabis for hemp. (not talking smoking) Clothes, rope, etc.</p>
<p>Caller knows Kev via Labor Party affiliation. Concerned over Kev going too far right, will they deliver on social objectives, consult with and empower the community. It is more than visiting a homeless shelter. Optimistic, but guarded.</p>
<p>James believes it is time for a change for a more youthful&#8230;This Liberal govt just dispensed with, thank God, as an ex infantry, this Howard Govt bought American tanks, not Leopards. American stuff tends to break down all the time, according to his mates in the armoured division.</p>
<p>For your project, William, in part.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in LDN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108660</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in LDN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108660</guid>
		<description>Hmmm - Glen  - Have you heard of NATO?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm &#8211; Glen  &#8211; Have you heard of NATO?</p>
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		<title>By: Meng</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108659</link>
		<dc:creator>Meng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108659</guid>
		<description>guru @ 1074:
I think by the Libs&#039; broad definition most of the ministry are still considered unionists, but frankly I and most other Australians aren&#039;t worried by that. Heck, Brendan Nelson was a unionist, and one of the finest of his ilk, back in the day - among the crowd that would have campaigned in favour of a Bernie Banton! Sad to say that subsequent AMA Presidents, especially the current one, have really diminished the office ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>guru @ 1074:<br />
I think by the Libs&#8217; broad definition most of the ministry are still considered unionists, but frankly I and most other Australians aren&#8217;t worried by that. Heck, Brendan Nelson was a unionist, and one of the finest of his ilk, back in the day &#8211; among the crowd that would have campaigned in favour of a Bernie Banton! Sad to say that subsequent AMA Presidents, especially the current one, have really diminished the office &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Aussieguru01</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108657</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussieguru01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108657</guid>
		<description>This is interesting. Going by this article on 2 of PM Rudd inner ministry a ex union hacks &amp; only 1 from the outer ministry. So much for Liberal scare campaigns!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22842499-5014046,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting. Going by this article on 2 of PM Rudd inner ministry a ex union hacks &amp; only 1 from the outer ministry. So much for Liberal scare campaigns!<br />
<a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22842499-5014046,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22842499-5014046,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: jaundiced view</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/29/toil-and-trouble/comment-page-22/#comment-108656</link>
		<dc:creator>jaundiced view</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/773#comment-108656</guid>
		<description>Me too gnight all</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too gnight all</p>
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