Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth

New Hampshire thread

In a probably vain effort to maintain order around here, I will henceforth be running separate threads for discussion of the US presidential campaign. Here’s the first.

928 Comments

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  1. 751
    scaper...
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Speaking of the black box…this might be of interest.

    http://news.google.com.au/news?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAZ_en-GBAU231AU238&q=black+box+voting+in+new+hampshire&um=1&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title

  2. 752
    Diogenes
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    KR- A wonderful book about militant vs secular Islam is “Snow” by Orhan Pamuk, who won the 2006 Nobel Prize. It is a fantastic insight into the competing ideologies in the Middle East and is gut-wrenchingly beautiful and profound. And it uses the Snow metaphor as well as Joyce did.

  3. 753
    Ozymandias
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Scaper @ 751… Only in America (?)

    The US Govt’s blind faith in good ol’ home-made technology is astounding. After chad-gate in 2000 it was made abundantly clear that the best ‘technology’ for recording unambiguous votes (though not immune to human error) was pencil and paper. Witness also GWB’s faith in techno solutions to global warming. Can the planet stand one more year of this guy?

  4. 754
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    752
    Diogenes

    Thanks Dio, I’d come across his name, but havn’t read him. I found a good review by Margret Attwood in the NY Times, and thought you might like:

    The twists of fate, the plots that double back on themselves, the trickiness, the mysteries that recede as they’re approached, the bleak cities, the night prowling, the sense of identity loss, the protagonist in exile — these are vintage Pamuk, but they’re also part of the modern literary landscape. A case could be made for a genre called the Male Labyrinth Novel, which would trace its ancestry through De Quincey and Dostoyevsky and Conrad, and would include Kafka, Borges, García Márquez, DeLillo and Auster, with the Hammett-and-Chandler noir thriller thrown in for good measure. It’s mostly men who write such novels and feature as their rootless heroes, and there’s probably a simple reason for this: send a woman out alone on a rambling nocturnal quest and she’s likely to end up a lot deader a lot sooner than a man would.

  5. 755
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Jen, the funniest thing about that Jimmy Carter spoof was that it’s yet another marker on the calender from Groundhog Day! It would be funnier if it wasn’t so broadly true ie Carter was well ahead of the times with his notion that America was on a consumption/oil binge that was not going to end well. He was also, seperately, rather badly engaged with the Iranians! There was a lot of irony packed into that little piece.

    As for Hillary being attacked by badge wearing sisters, well, Paglia’s got a right to her views, she argues them, and from what I can see, she’s telling more about Clinton’s pyschological make-up than any ‘news’ article you’re likely to see. Does it matter that Hillary has a problem with men? The answer must surely be how many Presidents have had problems with women! (LOL). Is it really unexpected that Hill would let Bill drag his peccadillos onto the international stage while she held her nose? After all, she knew he’d come in handy down the track, and so she covered for him. (Sisters are split by this: ie she belted up the poor victims and protected the predator). But hey, it’s a cruel world, and none more vicious than politics.

  6. 756
    Enemy Combatant
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    KR, one is inclined to add Thomas Wolfe to Atwood’s list, however she’s quite right. From Salem to Ankara; from Teheran to Timbuktu, female midnight ramblers have always had a much shorter shelf life.
    “It’s mostly men who write such novels and feature as their rootless heroes,”
    Ain’t that the truth, too!

    Diogenes, you sold me, will give “Snow” a go.

    Meanwhile, back in New Hampshire, Michigan and beautiful, historic South Carolina, Americans are learning all about how to live free or Diebold!

  7. 757
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Live free or Diebold!

    Perfect, just perfect!

  8. 758
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    None of the US democrat & republican candidates will force Israel to cease settlements as per UN resolutions. Abbas cann’t stop Hamas sending a missile a week. After 40 years of no peace , a further 40 years minimum of no peace seems not too pesimistic.

    The real fear is the US proped up the despotic Shah of Iran for 25 years and does so for the Saudi royal family. What happens if there is a people revolution in Saudi Arabria

  9. 759
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    And speaking of outraging the sisterhood, what about that other ‘minority group’ ie blacks?

    Bill Clinton fouls his nest with disparaging comments about the ‘kid’ Obama, while Hillary almost disses ML King as an also-ran to Lyndon Johnson!

    Sheesh, talk about sailing closs to the wind. It’s just lucky Bill didn’t call him “boy” or use the ‘n’ word! Their both backtracking at the speed of light, but it’s typical innuendo and smear type stuff.

    And, speaking of Lyndon Johnson, in semi-consciousness this morning, I listened to a Radio National piece with Philip Adams interviewing an American writer who recounted how Johnson, immediately on hearing of JFK’s assasination, muttered something about how long before the missiles began. In other words, he knew the total distrust between the forces of darkness in the US military and intelligence and JFK, and just presumed they had begun a military takeover of the government. At any moment, they’d be starting war with the USSR, and not ‘living in peace’ with our enemies as Kennedy had implored. His fears soon dissipated, but for a short time at least, the true ’state of the union’ was by his darkest thoughts.

  10. 760
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    There wasn’t much in the local press about this operation last week, but here’s the salient point:

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/24598.html

    BAGHDAD — The U.S. military dropped 40,000 pounds of explosives southeast of Baghdad on Thursday in a series of airstrikes that underscored the tenuousness of U.S. progress against Islamic extremists in Iraq.

    The targets were near the town of Arab Jabour, a Sunni Muslim-dominated district on Baghdad’s outskirts that American officials recently held up as a security success and an example of how local Sunni tribesmen known as “concerned local citizens” had turned against al Qaida in Iraq.

    …one week it’s an example of the victorous ’surge’ and the next week they’re bombing the cr@p out of it!

    Anyone thinking this war is anywhere near over (hint: this means you Glen!), is very seriously deluded.

    PS McClatchy news on Iraq is of a very high standard, its journalists take huge personal risks, and they will not just regurgitate Pentagon press releases.

  11. 761
    TurningWorm
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    All very 1984ish the reporting from Iraq these days.

    The petrol price was $1.40 in 2007 thanks our success in Iraq it will be going down to $1.50

  12. 762
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    The Clinton camp is alienating many Democratic activists by its use of Karl Rove-type tactics in the primaries. In New Hampshire, the Clintonites misrepresented Obama’s stance on abortion and employed pettifoggery to hamper his people in getting out the vote. In Nevada, where the union representing casino workers is backing Obama, the Clintonites are taking legal action to try to curb the Democratic opposition.

    Clinton is divisive in her own party and divisive in the country. She’ll prabably get the nomination, by fair means or foul, but she’ll lose in the end to John McCain. What a pity Gore is too fat and lazy to run!

  13. 763
    Diogenes
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    KR and EC- As a lover of the genre Atwood is talking about, I consider Haruki Murakami and David Mitchell its two leading exponents currently.

    The novel “Snow” and the Nobel that Pamuk got for it just saved him from arrest for his criticism of the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, which it was illegal to acknowledge. Interestingly, at about the same time the French government made it illegal to deny the Armenian massacre took place. The novel “Snow” is not difficult to read but it really packs an enormous punch and is very unsettling. Pamuk said he found it so troubling to write a political thriller that he would never do it again.

  14. 764
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    759

    Concludes:

    His fears soon dissipated, but for a short time at least, the true ’state of the union’ was revealed by his darkest thoughts.

    …oops, left out the important verb!

  15. 765
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    762
    Diogenes

    Speaking of Turkey, the other US ally on the war on everything they don’t like, I note they are bombing the other US ally in the war on everything they don’t like, Kurdistan.

    Two US allies starting their own territorial war, one of whom won’t acknowledge its genocides against a neighbour, nor it’s continuing suppression of an ethnic minority.

    How drearily familiar it all sounds! (Hint: When the US backed Saddam as ‘our bastard’, he’d already gassed Kurds and Iranians)

  16. 766
    Glen
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    736
    Jasmine Pierce – you forgot Gill Gunderson running for the Libertarian Party lol!

    759
    Kirribilli Removals – as per usual all flare and no substance…

    Anyone thinking this war is anywhere near over (hint: this means you Glen!), is very seriously deluded.

    Kirribilli the ‘War’ was over 5 years ago, what we’re facing in Iraq is an insurgency they are two very different things IMHO. Firstly you failed to mention that the precision strike killed a top al-Qaeda leader in the southern Baghdad region and around 20 terrorists/combatants as well as arms caches and IED making facilities.

    Whenever there is a success in Iraq the Left simply say how bad things are but in actual fact while Iraq is still a dangerous place in some parts its getting better not getting worse something you should be happy about. But why should you care anyway Kev’s already given up on Iraq by not continuing our training mission there, what a way to start off fighting al-Qaeda is you give up on a friend in need hah typical left wing solution.

    In response to the WA Libs the one group who if they got their act together and took out Omodei they’d probably win in 2009 but they don’t deserve to win or come close if they continue to carry on like headless chooks.

    My one hope is that the conservative parties, Nationals and Liberals will merge to form a new conservative political party because its about bloody time, for gods sakes the Brits have one Tory party, the Yanks have one right wing party, the Canadians have one Tory party, the New Zealanders have one Tory party. The sooner we merge the sooner we’ll become competitive again in Australian politics IMHO.

    So says Glen

  17. 767
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    But Glen we do not want the liberals to be competitive.

    We want the status quo…Labor in power everywhere

    see the light glen , join us at labor/Greens …we forgive sinners

  18. 768
    Glen
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Ron politics in Australia is boring with one side in power, and it would be boring if the Libs were in power everywhere too the Status quo is not Labor in power everywhere its a mix of both parties in power everywhere.
    ttfn

  19. 769
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Glen, all Washington talking points and no depth.

    2007 was the MOST violent year of the war (as in, war of occupation), and just take a look at how ’success’ is achieved:

    The president singled out for praise a U.S. program that pays mostly Sunni volunteers $300 a month to protect their neighborhoods and hold al Qaida at bay. The program is known as Concerned Local Citizens or Awakening groups. They now number more than 80,000 people, mostly armed.

    …in other words, the Sunni’s are happy to take arms and money to fight their own internecine battles, and the Yanks are happy to call this ’success’.

    Even if we take the modest figure of 150,000 Iraqis killed directly through violence in the last 5 years, (and that does NOT include IRaqis who’ve been injured, or died indirectly from disease, malnutrition and other ancillary causes), then this would represent, in US terms, about 2.25 million deaths!

    Just for one second, try and imagine if America was occupied, and 2.25 million citizens had been violently killed, 30 million fled the country, and tens of millions were internally displaced. Tens of millions injured, health services had all but collapsed, electricity was severely in short supply, and the government had allied itself to Hugo Chavez’s regime!

    Just for one second, try and think of this as ’sucess’.

    Nah, just give me Beltway claptrap and Faux News ‘in depth’ reporting, it’s what you understand best.

  20. 770
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    But glen if you join us you can enjoy a party with passion & compassion who are
    quite comfortable getting stuck into each other over racial & equity issues

    Whereas the US Republicans write liberal policy and its all “dry” & clinical
    ..small government , lower tax’s , family values , church , terrorism , strong army

    do not be afraid to leave the “dark” side….jeda Rudd is here

  21. 771
    scaper...
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Glen…and who will unite them…or is there a new charter to be written?

    The sooner the conservatives stop licking their wounds and refashion themselves into a real political force, the better for the sake of democracy.

    If Rudd stuffs up (and I have no reason at this point to think this will be the case) then the people will need an alternative option.

    scaper…

  22. 772
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Kirribilli Removals there you go and spoil it by telling Glen some home truths about the idiot Bush just as I was within a chance of enticing Glen to join Labor

  23. 773
    scaper...
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Now you both have blown my cover!

    More Democrat material I reckon.

  24. 774
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Crikey, sorry Ron, I hadn’t noticed how you were so cunningly enticing that tower of analytical strength to lean away from the lunar right and cast his formidable shadow this side of the line!

    Good luck! But somehow I think he’s better off where he is: it’s not challenging for him to cut and past Faux News opinions and we get a good laugh!

  25. 775
    jen
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Why would we want Glen to change? He is a constant reminder of why we are so mkuch better off now without right-wing Bush fans running oiur country. Howard would have been telling us that Iraq was a”success’. Try telling that to the civilian mothers of thousands of dead children.
    Or are they Ok with it, because it was “friendly fire”?
    What a bunch of morally bankrupt cynics.

  26. 776
    jen
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Or in Glen’s case, completely deluded.

  27. 777
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    So, what good has come out of the Iraq war? The removal of an evil and brutal dictator the conservatives may say. And at what cost? Who bloody cares about a few yankee lives and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis including children and children being left without families – many billions of dollars the conservatives may say.

    Bloody idiots, they could have got the Russians to do it for about one hundreth as much. What the hell, I would have done it for about one hundreth as much (only kidding).

    Don’t forget, Hillary supported The Idiot all the way. Not to mention likewise, The Dessicated Coconut.

  28. 778
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Jen , I watch US media and the subject of civilian losses is rarely mentioned & if it is then the cause is the “insurgents”

    only the US military could create such a quaint term …”insurgents”

  29. 779
    MayoFeral
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    To be fair Ron, I think the Poms were using the word a long time before the Yanks began throwing their weight around internationally. Certainly, it was used from at least the mid East India Company rule of India period – c. 1730-40.

    The earliest use of the word in print appears to be in William Falconer’s ‘The Demagogue’ printed in 1765: “His sanction will dismay, And bid th’ insurgents tremble and obey.”

  30. 780
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Human foibles are so abundent that they’re bound to surface, even in those you admire. For example, one of Hillary’s campaign staff Sidney Blumenthal was arrested and charged for drunken driving in New Hampshire, the day before the poll.

    I’ve read a lot of Blumenthal’s recent stuff on Salon before he resigned to work for Hillary, and I’ve always enjoyed his style and relentless dismantling of neoconservative claptrap.

    Never forget, even your heroes have feet of clay!

  31. 781
    MayoFeral
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Interestingly, the foundering fathers of America proudly called themselves insurgents – Jefferson recommended insurgency as a remedy for tyranny. Lincoln preferred to call the Confederates insurgents rather than rebels.

  32. 782
    wpc
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Take heart Glen, you will notice that they offer no logical arguments, just abuse.

    Don’t try to appease them, the only way you get a pat on the head from these types is if you are on your knees before them.

  33. 783
    The Finnigans
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    #746 – Adam, Huge come back. It looks like KMT has won over 2/3 majority that means it can basically do anything it likes. It will be greeted with great disappoint and dismay in DC, Tokyo and Canberra. Sorry, not Canberra, still can’t get use to Howard being kicked out. The DC, Tokyo and Canberra axis was established 2 years ago to contain PRC and was using Taiwan-PRC as a wedged issue.

    The current President Chen Shui-bian is an idiot who has called for indpendent regardless and played right into the hand of Axis. Thanksfully he has only 2 months to go and has been proven to be corrupt especially his own family. The real irony is that the old enemy KMT is now the real friend of the PRC. Last year, its chairman Lien Chan was feted and hailed whe visited the mainland. His message was reconciliation and potential unification with the mainland.

    The real funny thing is that all of the players of the Axis are gone or nearly gone. Abe of Japan, Howard of OZ and soon Bush of USA as well as Chen of Taiwan.

    Looks like Kevin07 is also getting lucky because Taiwan now will not be an issue, Japan political leadership is in shamble, DC will be in a more friendlier hand. It means he can focus on building his special relationships with PRC.

  34. 784
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    782
    wpc

    You obviously don’t bother to read the arguments and just nominate yourself to be a camp follower of someone who backed every loser in the last election at home and now wants to be a faithful Bushy! LOL

    OMG, ya crack me up! Call yourself a ‘fundy’? too. Oh dear.

  35. 785
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    WPC, Hans Blix made it crysyal clear that all he needed were a few more weeks to finish his job. Saddam was being disarmed. Dubya formed the conclusion that Hussein was such a threat with his WMDs that the world (without UN approval) could not wait a few more weeks.

    C’mon, let’s cut all the crap. I’ll tell you why Dubya couldn’t wait a few more weeks, because then he couldn’t get his grubby hands on the oil. If it wasn’t about oil (which it was) what percentage of normal human intelligence would it take to form the view that it would have been wiser to give Blix his requested few more weeks?

    Is this only logical or not? C’mon you tell us?

    Also, the US have already had 8 years of a Clinton, give them another stint in the white house – and nothing changes.

  36. 786
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    And just before the ‘good news’ hits the headlines, that the Iraqi government has started some kind of reconciliation with Ba’athists, consider this about the new law:

    The passage of the new law will be hailed by the War party as a major achievement. But as usual they will misread what really happened.

    If the new law was good for ex-Baathists, then the ex-Baathists in parliament will have voted for it and praised it, right? And likely the Sadrists (hard line anti-Baath Shiites) and Kurds would be a little upset.

    Instead, parliament’s version of this law was spearheaded by Sadrists, and the ex-Baathists in parliament criticized it.

    Somehow that little drawback suggests to me that the law is not actually, as written, likely to be good for sectarian reconciliation.

    (Juan Cole)

    But hey, let’s hear Faux News tell us that this a major breakthrough, that it’s further proof, (if any was needed, as they’ve been telling us for months how well it’s all going in Eye-rack) that the political process is ‘going forward’!

    What in fact it has done is remove a lot of senior civil servants and retire them, and let some low level party members have some low level jobs outside of security clearances. It is, once again, the now dominant Shiite’s making sure no Sunni gets higher than office clerk.

    Welcome to the new face of sectarian hatred and mistrust.

  37. 787
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    OK, here’s how it’s done:

    Mr Bush says the new law has great significance.

    “It’s an important step towards reconciliation. It’s an important sign that the leaders of that country understand that they must work together to meet the aspirations of the Iraqi people,” he said.

    “I come with an upbeat message, a hopeful message, a message that peace will prevail here in the Middle East.”

    - BBC

    …but just consider this from some of the Sunni parties:

    Members of the Iraqi National Front (Allawi’s group), the National Dialogue Front (Mutlak), and two of the three constituent parties of the Iraqi Accord Front (Sunni Arabs), along with some IAF independents, denounced the law in a circulated, signed letter. They said that the law would be “difficult to implement.” They indicated that they had not voted for it and do not support it. They called it “unrealistic” because it contains an article forbidding the Baath Party “from returning to power ideologically, administratively, politically or in practice, and under any other name.” The law’s opponents charged that this language was unconstitutionally vague and could easily be “misused.”

    What are the ex-Baathists afraid of? Well, they are ex-Baathists in politics. So this objectionable passage seems to make it possible for the Sadrists, e.g., to keep people like Iyad Allawi from ever again enjoying high office. His secular, nationalist Iraqi National Dialogue party could easily just be branded too close to the original Baath Party and dissolved, and he could be excluded from high office by this new provision.

    (Juan Cole)

    But hey, let’s not bother with what the Sunni politicians think, George Bush says it’s good for them, and how could he be possibly wrong?

    PS Glen, that’s what you call examining the issues from the available evidence and not just repeating Whitehouse press releases

    And wpc, that’s called an ‘argument’, based on reason and facts. You should try it some time!

  38. 788
    MayoFeral
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    But hey, let’s not bother with what the Sunni politicians think, George Bush says it’s good for them, and how could he be possibly wrong?

    Is that the same George Bush who’s been buying off the Sunnis lately with guns and money so Da Surge plays well back in the good ol’ USA? Nah, he couldn’t possibly be wrong. I mean it’s not like the Sunnis would ever dream of turning those weapons against the Shias, or buying more with the piles of cash, would they?

  39. 789
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    762 Phil Robins. Yeah right Phil. You obviously aren’t following the facts.
    1. The polls indicate Democrats in a landslide.
    2. The Republicans are just about broke.
    3. It’s the economy stupid. (Bill Clinton).

    If you want to do a bit of research this site will be very helpful.
    http://www.electoral-vote.com

  40. 790
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    US journo who did a very good report on the NW frontier in Pakistan:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/magazine/06PAKISTAN-t.html

    …just got deported. Appears like Musharraf does not want the world to know how dodgey it is in Swat, or how he’s not really chasing the Taliban there at all.

    Gotta love them dictator allies that take your billions and deport your journalists.

  41. 791
    Slartybardfast
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Adam @ 725

    Black power baby bib!

    Classic

  42. 792
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Obama draws a really mixed crowd in Charleston. So mixed in fact, that one guy is wearing a college fraternity T-shirt of Kappa Alpha.

    It rang a bell, and yes, it’s origins go back to the defunct order of Kuklos Adelphon, which literally means Circle of Brothers (gotta love Wiki eh?) And it’s rituals were later adopted by that other famous southern organisation, the Ku Klux Klan.

    He draws a really ‘mixed’ audience! LOL

  43. 793
    Jasmine Pierce
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Hillary isn’t a “breakthrough for women”

    Hillary is A) white, B) has white privilage and C) has Bill Clinton as her husband

    The real breakthrough for women in the U.S. will be when the candidates are “Carmen Cortez” and “Shanice Knowles”.

  44. 794
    Ron
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Well we can not have a journo exposing the terrorist enclave in northern pakistan can we

    The enclave only crosses into Afghanistan & attacks our troops

    After all , Musharraf says he’s trying as he receives the billions of US aid

  45. 795
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Sunday, January 13, 2008 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Essentially, the US primaries are between:

    2 charismatic preachers (one black, one white)
    2 battle scarred party warriors (one male, one female)

    OK, that’s a very big simplification, but sometimes its useful to break things down to the essentials.

    My money is on the preachers!

    LOL

    (I don’t believe I said that!)

  46. 796
    Glen
    Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    It’s hard to fathom that what you and the left advocate vis a vis Iraq is precisely what the insurgents want…a quick and speedy US retreat. This would be a disaster especially considering the ground made up by the ‘Surge’ which you left wingers never supported either and has helped turn the tables in the insurgency.

    Let’s rationally look at the situation, will withdrawing from Iraq make the situation worse or better it follows that the best decision would be the one that produces the better outcome would it not. So how is withdrawing and letting al-Qaeda back into a position of power in Iraq a good and positive outcome the last thing we need is another haven for terrorists and now that we’re killing them in sufficient numbers in Iraq it would be stupid not to battle them there in the Middle East than else where.

    BTW As much as i respect Iyad Allawi the man is never going to have enough votes to become Prime Minister again. Iraq is a tribal country in more ways than one and that is how their political parties are positioned. Its sad but inevitable.

    Regardless of how you argue about the wars’ beginning the fact is we have a choice do what Osama Bin Laden wants and pull out or stick in there just as we’re gaining the upper hand.

    And BTW you left wingers cannot claim and statistically reliable numbers of civilian casualties for Iraq since 2003 and besides whatever the number it actually is it would be far less than the deaths of Iraqis and Middle Eastern Citizens during Saddam’s Rule. Just as we took out Saddam so should we take out other despots like Mugabe et al, when we can we should IMHO.

    It’s sad to think that if we had it your way Saddam would still be torturing, raping and butchering his own people thank god he was finally taken out! Had it been done in 1991 i doubt we’d be having the same sorts of troubles we’ve faced in the past few years IMHO. GWB had to fix the problem his father and Clinton created.

    BTW when you sprout your left wing positions i don’t say they came from Barrack Obama HQ or ALP HQ or whatever yet because i hold right wing positions they are somehow carbon copies of GWB’s i mean come on get a grip! It is the lamest attack on someone to say their political beliefs are just propaganda…yawn!

    Oh and Juan Cole isn’t exactly credible either this guy has said some stupid things in the past that it’s no wonder that his anti-israeli comments have led many to assert that he is antisemitic.

    “It wouldn’t take much now to settle the Israel-Palestine thing, and the time is ripe to have Israel give back the Golan to Syria and the Shebaa Farms to Lebanon…” Anybody let alone a ’scholar’ with half a brain would know that doing this would achieve nothing and anyway why should Israel a democratic state appease Syria a dictatorship!

    There i’ve said enough to give the Glen haters some more material with which to try and belittle my political views i await your responses….

  47. 797
    Kirribilli Removals
    Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    So much for McCain being too old, coz not according to the betting markets. This from Rasmussen:

    Current pricing shows McCain with a 45.0% chance of winning the nomination. He is followed by Giuliani at 20.0%, Mike Huckabee at 15.8%, Mitt Romney at 11.0%, and Fred Thompson at 3.5%. Numbers in this article are from a prediction market, not a poll. The markets currently show that Democrats have a 62.3% chance of winning the White House in November.

    (Glad I covered my Huckabee bet with one on McCain!)

  48. 798
    Artie B
    Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 at 1:13 am | Permalink

    MayoFeral
    Re ‘insurgency’ & ‘insurgents’
    Curious that GWB should attempt to overcome an insurgency with a surge.
    Of course in other times we used to call an insurgency an insurrection. Perhaps however insurrection didn’t quite have the nuances the boys in the White House were looking for. (On the other hand perhaps they are just illiterate.) But the origin of insurgent and insurrection is the same Latin verb. Conjugate after me: insurgo, insurgere, insurrexi, insurrectum.
    I assume also that insurgents must insurge and am a bit surprised that this verb hasn’t put in an appearance. It has an excellent pedigree: ‘All the heretikes that rebelle againste it, nor all the tyrauntes vppon earth that ensourge & oppugne it’. (Thomas More ‘The confutacyon of Tyndales answere’ (1532)). More was referring to the catholic church, not western civilisation as represented by the USA, but people are free to draw whatever parallels they wish.

    While I am in classico-whimsico-pedagogical mode, someone referred on this thread a couple of days ago to a ‘pater familius’. It is pater familias (or paterfamilias) (for reasons I am prepared to explain if absolutely necessary).

  49. 799
    MayoFeral
    Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Glen @ claimed;

    Regardless of how you argue about the wars’ beginning the fact is we have a choice do what Osama Bin Laden wants and pull out

    But bin Laden wanted the US to invade Iraq and he doesn’t want it to pull out, Glen. Not only did the invasion allowed Al Queda into Iraq its been a hugely successful recruiting tool (and a superb training camp). By advocating they stay you are doing his bidding!

    You haven’t been hearing any strange noises on your phone line lately, have you Glen? I understand ASIO like to keep a close watch on you jihadist supporters! Or have they already put a control order on you? It’s okay, you don’t have to answer that, given that you probably aren’t allowed to.

    Anybody let alone a ’scholar’ with half a brain would know that doing this would achieve nothing and anyway why should Israel a democratic state appease Syria a dictatorship!

    Um, because Israel’s theft of Syria’s and Lebanon’s land is illegal? Perhaps made doubly so because Israel, especially on the Golan, instigated the 1967 war so that its farmers could steal the land. You jihadi fellow travelers don’t have any respect for the law, do you?

  50. 800
    Andrew
    Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Glen I am really surprised that you are still clinging to the Howard mantra/spin that the terrorists want us to retreat (Mr Howard has been voted out of office by the way). Iraq has been all Osama’s dreams come true: a cause, a breeding ground, a theatre for combat.

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