Voting has begun in today’s Florida primaries, the last to be held before Super Tuesday apart from Republican caucuses in Maine on Saturday. For refusing to play by the rules of the parties’ national committees, Florida has been stripped of the 210 delegates it would normally send to the Democratic national convention, along with half of its 114 Republican delegates. All 57 of the Republican delegates will be pledged to the winning candidate, whereas the Democratic primary amounts to nothing more than an opinion poll. Polls show John McCain and Mitt Romney neck-and-neck in the Republican race, with Rudy Giuliani looking very unlikely to pull off his Florida-first strategy.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
1,099 Comments
The games Rudy plays. Reminiscent of the postal voting and absentee votes the Libs had in the bag at the last Australian election which Senator Minchin, Glen and others told us would ensure a Liberal victory.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/polls_and_early_voting_in_flor.php
Oh well, after today we’ll no longer have to read about what a great president Rudy would make!
What a godawful nasty bit of work he is! I looked over some his personal vindictiveness and vicious backstabbing and came to the same realisation as the folks in FLorida who’ve been polled recently ie he’s a creepy crazed mother, and he’d make GW Bush look like a Sunday School teacher.
So, here’s to Rudy 911, the mayor of nowhere.
I’ll toast that KR. And here’s hoping that Bill’s antics get another walloping too.
Good call, Kirribilli Removals - you’re on the money. It seems so long ago now, but just before 9/11 Mayor Giuliani was on the nose with New York voters. 9/11 resurrected his career, and he’s been milking it ever since.
The question is what precisely did Rudy do on 9/11 day or is it a media myth to show how reslient the US leaders were under stess
I would have thought the numerous Fire Brigade COMMANDERS etc were the ral leaders that day (plus George reading kinder books being the standout)
Earliest exit polls, again only issues and demographics not voting intentions. The economy is the biggest issue and Repugs are almost all white. Only 3/10 Repugs describe themselves as moderate.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jKQGmxj89vyXDiYDSNTLbKgEto-QD8UFQ91O4
Not directly related to Florida, except in the fact that this state is one where acres and acres and acres of realestate is either being foreclosed or houses are left partially built and the rotting air of severe financial collapse wafts over the bright lagoons and canals of housing estates.
Now that the horse has truly bolted:
WASHINGTON, Jan. 29 (Reuters) — The F.B.I. has opened investigations into 14 corporations as part of a crackdown on improper subprime lending, agency officials said on Tuesday.
Skip to next paragraph F.B.I. officials told reporters that the inquiry involved potential violations including accounting fraud and insider trading.
They did not identify the companies, but said the investigation reached across the industry to include developers, subprime lenders, companies that securitized loans and investment banks that held them.
The cases could lead to potential civil or criminal charges, the officials said.
The F.B.I. said it was investigating the cases with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which has opened about three dozen investigations into the subprime market collapse.
Targets of the S.E.C. probe include the Swiss bank UBS and the American investment banks Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns, as well as the bond insurer MBIA. It was not clear whether any of those companies were involved in the F.B.I. investigation.
The S.E.C., which has formed an internal subprime-mortgage task force, is looking at how financial firms priced mortgage-based securities and whether they should have told investors earlier about the declining value of those securities.
…like Das said: “regulatory debauchery”
Free enterprise: free to exercise humungous malfeasance and beggar the nation.
Latest polling information from the Votemaster. It looks like Hillary is starting to pull away.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Rush Limbaugh votes twice (for Romney presumably). Seriously, what kind of a voting system do they have there. What a pathetic joke.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/entries/2008/01/29/rush_limbaugh_has_trouble_voti.html#jump
Diogenes, that exit polling is very interesting, and shows just how much political affiliation tempers perceptions (or actually distorts facts, depending on how you read it!):
AND HOW’S THE ECONOMY DOING?
Republicans were more likely than Democrats to rate the national economy positively, though few in either party rated it excellent. A third of Republicans but fewer than one in 10 Democrats rated the economy good. Half of Democrats called it poor, compared to only about one in seven Republican primary voters.
…so 1 in 3 Repubs can say the economy is GOOD! Whoa, the Fed’s just slammed interest rates towards the floor (more coming soon, BTW), George is out there telling them not to panic ‘coz he’s going to throw some spending money at them, and they actually think it’s “GOOD”?
Maybe the word ‘good’ has a different meaning in Florida! LOL
Or perhaps all those self-funded retirees are living in gated communities and just don’t get outside very much!
KR: Those are the same “special” voters that think the Iraq war was positive and Dubya was a good president.
No wonder democracy has flaws.
If they’re not as concerned by the economy as one would normally expect (ie more like the Democrats), then the Romney “I can lead you through the economc wilderness to the promised land” stuff may not resonate so loudly. That will surely help McCain, even though the economy is the top issue.
Romney: The Mormon Moses, lots of bullrushes, plus he’s got updated Commandments.
Gotta go, just when the party is about to get interesting!
Catch youse all later, bludgers!
(And commiserations in advance to Glen. But hey, think of the upside, you can now pick another loser to flog senseless, and amuse us!)
Although it won’t happen, how amusing would it be if Obama won Florida.
It would be especially ironic for Hillary given she has now sought that the Floridan delegates be seated, and would make her look like a bigger hypocrite then she already is.
The question would be: would Obama then ask for those delegates to be seated?
“The question is what precisely did Rudy do on 9/11 day or is it a media myth to show how reslient the US leaders were under stess”
Yes and no. Yes for Rudy, no for Dubya. Rudy got his hands dirty (literally and figuratively) in the WTC rubble. His conduct was contrasted with the complete impotence of Dubya. Substantively, Rudy didn’t do all that much; but in a time of crisis, his behaviour took on a lot of symbolism.
agree , howeverRudy would have been told to do that anyway by his spin doctors. We’ll never know if he would have done it irrespective since so many pollies are ‘plastic’
Has the media wound up the Public on the Obama oratory and the dislike of Hilary.
As of right now , what does Obama believe in
FOX NEWS EXIT POLL RESULTS
Senior Citizens– McCain 40, Romney 31, Giuliani 18, Huckabee 7
Veterans– McCain 37, Romney 36, Giuliani 14, Huckabee 8
Hispanics– McCain 50, Giuliani 26, Romney 16, Huckabee 5
WARNING-With 1/3 of votes pre-polled the exit polls will be less reliable than usual. Still its Goodbye Rudy!!
Counting has started.
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/dates/#20080129
Surely Rudi would wait on the Super Tuesday results before quitting
One wounders whether the media support for the alleged success of the Iraq ’surge’ has made McCain’s campaign
Early stages point to Clinton.
McCain v Romney too close to call.
Who said cheaters never prosper?
Short term they do, Pancho
Rudi is something like 40,000 votes behind, yes its early and I would imagine that the larger booths are not in yet and they may help him, but he looks beaten, I also thing Edwards looks set to finish third again, considering he is the only major southern on the Democrat side he has not done very well in the south.
I think there is something weird abut the way Americans do elections, how can a state like Florida not be counted or in the case opf the Repubicans only half the normal number will be accepted, I’m starting to think America should cean up its own act before telling anyone else what to do.
“how can a state like Florida not be counted or in the case of the Republicans only half the normal number will be accepted”
It’s because Florida (and Michigan too), for self-interested reasons altered the timing of its primary in defiance of the central Democratic and Republican organisations (National Committees). So the central organisations are (threatening to, may not happen) punishing the state.
It’s like an Australian state branch of a party doing something out of step with the Federal party’s interests (which happens all the time, think Qld Council amalgamations, Joh for PM etc).
Oh, and Rudi must be gone too. Looks like a good McCain/Romney fight though!
Rudi running a distant third.
Cya, thanks for playing!
Clinton has been called the winner of the Democratic race - pretty easy win by the looks of it too
Romney is holding on well and making a good race of it. Huckabee needs to pass Rudy if he is going to get any news coverage.
Max - Yes, but Edwards’ vote seems top be holding up, and Obama is close enough to stay alive for now, when you combine the two.
Obama has won more delegates than Hillary, and is getting the insiders vote in the Dems. Hillary was the only one to campaign in Florida, in spite of a pledge not to. She was always going to win there, patricularly with the aging vote, when you looked at the demographics of what happend in SC - about 10% of over 65s voted for Obama. Obama is alive aside Edwards vote/s.
Certainly looks like Clinton has brought out the female vote in Florida - 59/41. Virtually the opposite of the Repug proportion of females - 44/56
Huckabee is gaining on Guliani - 20,000 votes in it.
jv, I agree, considering this is a dud state where nobody but those who have time on their hands would bother voting, the results isn’t too bad.
Open Question: Would Edwards, if offered, accept the role of VP to Obama in exchange for pulling out and openly endorsing? He’s only 54, and you would think that his only chance now of the presidency would be to run as the ‘virtual incumbent’ eight years from now…
It would do no ends of damage to the Clinton campaign as well - very few people seem to actively dislike Edwards.
Max @ 31- “Open Question: Would Edwards, if offered, accept the role of VP to Obama in exchange for pulling out and openly endorsing?”
That would be great team, but the hard-heads in the party would probably say it could be attacked as 2 inexperienced blow-ins together. The way they think, they’d rather an experienced steady-as-she-goes VP candidate who would help balance the perceived inexperience of Obama.
Not saying they’re right in principle though, because it would objectively be the best option for the US if Obama & Edwards got the top jobs.
The open rumour of course is that Edwards is being lined up as an Obama A-G. I don’t know how reliable that is.
But anyway, I doubt it. Edwards retains whatever ability he has to leverage a deal as long as he stays in, and he wouldn’t want to completely burn his bridges with the most likely nominee.
Hey Pancho…the US system is so confusing to follow.
You say that Obama has won more delegates than Clinton but the last time I looked (pre FL) she had won something in the 200’s while Obama was in the 100’s.
Am I missing something?
If Obama gets the nod, he will want a more moderate counterbalance in his running mate. I doubt he would choose Edwards.
It’s certainly a thumping win for Hillary, but in the circumstances it can’t be considered a thumping endorsement. It’s a win in a meaningless primary, but a win nonetheless. It could, of course, be a harbinger of things to come on Super Tuesday as the large states rally to Hill-Billy. We’ll soon see.
On the other side, I don’t see how it could be interpreted as anything but a humuliating rejection of Rudy. Florida has heard his well financed and loudly trumpeted message and responded with the Floridian Finger.
Well the US is the land of law suits so IF Obama is in front of Hilary at the convention by the difference in the florida delegates each ‘notionally’ won,
the lawyers eyes would be gleaming
FG
The Floridian Finger…
Beautiful.
stark- Hill-Billy is ahead on delegates because of the Superdelegates. Obama has won more “voting” delegates.
FG - “Floridian Finger” ? How ornate. Is that in the same vein as a florid finger, as in flowery?
CNN has called it for McCain.
RUDY TO PULL OUT TOMORROW AND ENDORSE MCCAIN
Glen! Oh the humanity!
http://thepage.time.com/
MSNBC is reporting that Times is implying that Giuliani is going to drop out to endorse McCain because a senior aide refused to deny the story.
Gah. Hearsay at its finest. But it wouldn’t surprise me, Giuliani has stuffed this campaign up from the get go.
Stark - some of the estimates at this stage, like CNN’s, include superdelegates who are nominated by the party and are generally members of the National Committee or something similar.
Most of the estimates assume that Hillary will win the majority of these superdelegates. At this stage that is probably a fair guess, but it is only a guess. Continued good showings by Obama, as well as support from the Kennedys and others could sway these numbers.
In any case, as far as delegates who have been voted for by the people count, Obama is ahead of Hillary.
JV - I suspect that, if it’s a flower then it’s a thistle - and Rudy is getting the point.
The Democrats can’t afford months of infighting and uncertainty over their nominee against a settled Republican ticket. In the extremely unlikely event that the race is still open by the end of June I am sure that all concerned will disappear into a room and hammer out a deal.
41 It was always an amazing strategy for a candidate to come into the race this far into the primaries and deprive himself of months of media coverage. Last I heard he was out of money to pay his campaign workers too. In typical Rudy fashion their wages were converted to TV ads and all to no avail.
Numbers of delegates from Iowa, NH, Nevada and SC are:
Obama 70, Clinton 57, Edwards 29.
annnd FOX and AP calling for McCain as well now.
Onto Super Tuesday
Martin B - as long as that deal involved giving the Presidency to Team Clinton, I am sure they would accept.
Sorry, my numbers at 47 are wrong - they are from here: http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/, and assume superdelegate votes as well for the 4 states. But they are thereabouts.
All hail President McCain.
Stark,
If you are looking at the CNN site, they include both ‘plegded delegates’ and ’super delegates’. Pledged delegates are the ones that have been elected through the primary process - they have to vote for whichever candidate they were elected for. Super delegates are party officials, govenors, members of congress, past presidents, etc. - they can vote for whoever they want. Obama has won more pledged delegates while Hilary has the support of more of the party machine, the super delegates.
About a quarter of the dems convention are super delegates. CNN explains it well here http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/02/delegate.explainer/index.html
We should also all remember when we are critisizing this process that primary elections are not a formal part of the US electoral system. They are internal preselections for the parties. That is why there are different rules in each state - caucuses, open primaries, closed, etc. Its also why some delegates ‘wont be seated’ - internal rules. Just like the ALP and Libs have some crazy internal processes for their preselections, so too in the US. Its all internal Dem and GOP stuff.
Goodbye Rudy, but after Florida he has more delegates than Kucinic.
Now here’s an interesting thing. The results at
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#FL
tally to 98%.
The figures of Obama, Edwards and Kucinich all calculate out to the % shown (when rounded). But Clinton’s votes when held against the total votes displayed come out at 52%, not the 50% shown. What gives?
Diogenes - From your Time link. Hope he’s right - all the way to Tuesday:
“HALPERIN’S TAKE: Seven Reasons Why the Kennedy Endorsement is a Big Deal. While endorsements don’t usually matter much, Edward Kennedy’s does because:
1. He has a huge following with Hispanics, a big deal in California and other Super Tuesday states, and one of Obama’s weaknesses.
2. The symbolic Kennedy family thing — the ultimate message of change, viability, Democratic legitimacy, and youthful excitement.
3. The national press will be obsessed with the story for days and days to come, with no downside for Obama; the local press coverage when Kennedy travels for Obama will be ginormous.
4. It sends a message to other senators and superdelegates that it is OK to be for Obama — they don’t have to be afraid of the Clintons.
5. He has a huge following among working-class, traditional Democrats, one of Obama’s weaknesses.
6. He has a huge following among union households, another of Obama’s weaknesses.
7. He has a huge following among older Democrats, yet another of Obama’s weaknesses.”
Geez JV, thats quite a list of Obama weaknesses. Does he have any strengths apart from brilliant rhetoric?? And does anyone really listen to Kennedy anymore?
Yes FG, there are a few soft spots, but he’s very strong among black middle-class male academics between the ages of 46 and 52.
It doesn’t matter what a Kennedy says, it’s more just the fact that they exist, hopefully in one’s proximity if one is a candidate.
#54 - No: 8 - He was a coward and left a girl behind to drown at Chappaquiddick.
As well as the ones displayed on the website, Joseph Biden Jr., Christopher J. Dodd, Mike Gravel and Bill’ Richardson III are actually on the ballot paper despite all except Gravel having pulled out.
These candidates must be getting ~2% of the vote in total.
Dade (Miami): Clinton 53, Obama 38 (Cubans and Blacks)
Broward (Fort Lauderdale): Clinton 58, Obama 31 (Retirees, Gays and Jews)
Palm Beach (Palm Beach): Clinton 60, Obama 28 (Retirees, Jews)
Duval (Jacksonville): Clinton 35, Obama 47 (Blacks)
Orange: Clinton 48, Obama 39 (rich Whites)
Escambia (Pensacola): Clinton 35, Obama 35 (Blacks, poor Whites)
Same pattern - all the Democrat voting blocks are for Clinton except the blacks.
(By the way Ted Kennedy got 23% in the Florida primary in 1980.)
McCain looks like a dead man walking and his oratory skill makes watching paint dry an exciting sport. I pray the GOP elects him.
Orange Co = Orlando
Well Steve, it appears my predicition of yesterday was spot on, though I did expect the battle between Grandpa and Mitt to be even closer than it was. Still, the outcome isn’t close - 57 delegates to Grandpa and zip to Mitt.
Yes, Biden and Richardson are getting about 0.9% each and Gravel and Dodd are each getting about 0.3%.
Note to Gravel and Kucinich: two candidates who are not running are doing better than you. Perhaps you should reconsider your strategy
Rudy has always said he’d make an announcement tomorrow if he lost, and he’s not bad. I believe he’ll pull out tomorrow and endorse his friend McCain (there are lots of good jobs he could get in a McCain Admin). Romney’s only hope then would be for Huck to pull out and endorse him which he will not do. Huck will go with McCain leaving Romney dead in the water. Unless the hardhead neocons can pull off an enormous coup, we have a definite Republican nomination for POTUS in Senator McCain. If Romney is persuaded against going up against McCain/Huck/Giuliani, with the carrot of being the preferred candidate for 2012 (remember Macca has said only one term), the Repugs will have a united front against a divided Dem campaign in Obama survives Super Tues.
Whoops! First line should be “lost bad” rather than “not bad”. What was I thinking!!
Compare the latest polling (here: http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/states/florida.html) to the actual result. It was right on the money for Clinton at 50% but the undecideds appear to have broken overwhelmingly for Obama. This continues the pattern from South Carolina of understating Obama’s vote albeit by only about 6% here instead of by the double figures seen in SC. But then he campaigned in SC. Hillary campaigned in Florida and only trod water.
Whilst Hillary won convincingly in Florida, one statistic of note is that there was significantly more older people voting then younger people.
One could hypothesise that more younger people would vote for Obama, but felt that their vote would not mean anything in a situation where no delegates will be seated.
Although I’m sure the demographics in Florida have substantially more retirees then most other states which would also explain the discrepancy.
Adam, Tq
@ 70 - That analysis is in line with the steady trend back to Obama overall on the polls. If there is an alignment later of the magnetic forces of: Edwards’ delegates, Kennedy endorsement, independent/undecided delegates, great speeches, luck, no stuff-ups, more Clinton errors and unpleasantness, continuing upward poll trend, effective lobbying, great Dem convention etc, then Obama’s still in with a chance.
Sorry I mean @ 70
Try again @ 69 Bollard
Rolling poll average vote for Clinton/Obama/Edwards in the major Super Tuesday states:
AL 43/28/16 (very good for HRC in a black state)
AZ 37/27/15
CA 44/32/11
CO 32/34/17 (surprisingly good for BHO)
CT 41/27/9
GA 35/41/13
IL 22/51/15
MA 59/22/11
MN 47/22/16
MO 43/24/28
NJ 46/28/10
NY 50/27/10
TN 34/20/16
The last poll in FL was 52/28/13. The actual result is 50/33/14. So the late-deciders were worth maybe 5% to Obama. Even if they break the same way on Super T, that won’t be enough for him to win anywhere except CO, GA and IL. Only CO would be any kind of surprise.
Diogenes,
Where has McCain said ‘only one term’ ?
He’s said once or twice he is only taking ‘one term at a time’ but that’s about it - should he say from the get go that he is only going for 4 years he will achieve very little in his Administration - a Democratic caucus isn’t going to try too hard to cooperate with a guy who they only need to worry about for a few years before there is a new election, as opposed to one who can make their life hell for nearly eight years.
That’s assuming, of course, they keep their majority (it seems to be the conventional wisdom anyway).
@74 Try what again? You imply that I’m trying desperately to spin for Obama. That’s unlikely seeing as I don’t even like him (or any of the candidates for that matter except perhaps Kuchinic - and I’m not even sure how to spell his name!). I just think he has a chance of winning. Opinion polling in a politics free beauty contest (which is what US primaries generally are) are less reliable than in Australian elections. They have fewer “rusted on” voters and voluntary voting.
If McCain is elected he will run again in 2012 (when he will be 75) unless he is actually on a slab. Power is a wonderful rejuvenator (and an aphrodisiac too).
The peculiar congressional arithmetic makes it almost certain that even if a Repub candidate is elected President, the Dems will retain control of Congress, and will probably increase their majority in the Senate, where individual contests count for much more.
The Clinton/Obama P/VP team is looking a pretty good bet at this stage. Are Sportingbet etc offering odds on that?
Of course the McCain VP will be interesting? Will he try to assuage the conservatives? Maybe Brownback from Kansas?
Adam #75. There’s no doubt that Clinton should win Super Tuesday hands down according to the polls and this has to be the most likely result. I was only pointing to an intriguing possibility. It’s true also that a 5% turnaround (I was basing it on the poll average which makes it a 7% but that’s a quibble) would not be sufficient to turn the gap in California et al around. But if Obama’s vote is understated by anything like the extent it was in North Carolina (where the polls were out by double digits) then he has more than a decent chance.
Romney would be a much weaker candidate than McCain, but part of me just wants to see the hard right squirm, see them on McCain here:
http://corner.nationalreview.com
and the loveable Ann Coulter here:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24635&s=rcmp
Primary polling is like measuring a cloud. How much of Hillary’s support is for her specifically and how much for her as the best-known Democrat among less engaged Democrat voters? The later will erode.
HISTORY should warn us all that geat orators like Obama can be dangerous as they can more easily avoid policy scrutiny & substance
(compared to an uninspiring speaker like McCain or Hilary)
I’ve yet to hear a pro Obama bloger here advance policys Obama stands for
(as opposed to negative Hilary reasons)
Finnegans@60, I’d stay away from those FOX ‘fact’ sheets. Nasty stuff.
ESJ #80,
McCain has a problem with his VP candidate. Given that he’s already an ‘outsider’ within the GOP’s power structure, they will be pushing him to take on a GOP apparatchik. However, such a VP candidate is very likely to turn off the voters. If McCain goes for a VP candidate who is more likely to appeal to the voters, he’ll pi$$-off the party, and will receive their half-hearted (at best) support in the actual election campaign. And even there, he’s got issues. Being as he appeals to neither the “liberal” (too hawkish) nor the “conservative” (too socially progressive)segments of the US population, he’d need to (somehow) find a VP-candidate who appeals to both at once. Not easy.
My comment on McCain only going one term was admittedly too black and white. This is what he actually said and the commentary. He says the problems of the US need a quick fix and it is an advantage to look at them from a four year rather than eight year POV.
McCain May Seek Only One Term
When 71 year-old John McCain was asked whether he had the stamina to serve as president for eight years, he responded by suggesting that, if he is elected, he might not seek reelection:
“If I said I was running for eight years, I’m not sure that would be a vote-getter,” McCain said.
Asked later to elaborate, McCain said that every president evaluates his progress after two or three years:
“My health is good, my campaign schedule is heavier than anybody else’s, and I’ve said many times I can out-campaign anybody,” McCain said. “I think the decision as to whether to run for reelection has to do with the circumstances at the time. I really do. You shouldn’t run for eight years, because then you think you’ve got eight years to get these things done.”
McCain’s single term gambit is a better approach to the age issue than Ronald Reagan’s 1980 promise to undergo testing for senility.
About Hillary and Alabama. Remember blacks arn’t allowed to vote in Alabama
From the JMart blog.
“Rudy Giuliani is “very likely” to get behind John McCain tomorrow at the Reagan library in California, accoring to a source close to Giuliani’s campaign.
But, this source cautions, it’s not yet a done deal.
The conversation between the two camps is still ongoing.”
I wonder what position Rudy is asking for in return. Please don’t let it be Secretary of State or Secretary of War (oops should be Defence).
Also I reckon Obama is a good chance for Kansas. Though i haven’t seen any polls for there, his family roots and the extremely popular governors assistance should be very helpful.
Ron @83. Obama stands for much the same thing as Hilary. He is (on paper) marginaly to the right of her on Healthcare and marginally to the left of her on Iraq. Both want to rattle the sabres at Iran. Both will do as they’re told once in power.
The last two Democrat presidents presided over reversals of the reforms that has been brought in by FDR and LBJ. Clinton’s demolition of social welfare was the starkest example. And yet Bill Clinton probably stood on a more left-wing platform in ‘92 than either Hilary or Obama today.
The only real significance of this contest is then symbolic: first female pres v first black pres. Take your pick. The only thing that exercises my opinion either way is disgust at the Clinton’s strategy of getting Bill to do some coded race baiting, thereby writing off the black demographic and guaranteeing the loss of North Carolina but painting Obama into the corner as the “black candidate” in the process and (they hope) winning the main game.
I wouldn’t mind seeing that strategy unravel - not because of what it means regarding the occupancy of the White House but because it would be a positive thing for racial politics in the US.
Ron- Obama’s health policy is excellent. I will include the link to Atul Gawande’s review of it in the NYT (Gawande is the leading medical writer in the world at the moment IMO).
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/opinion/31gawande.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
#84 - Pancho - FOX ‘fact’ sheets? Please explain.
Goodbye Rudy you insufferable creep! And whoever McCain picks as VP is a more important choice than it usually is, as they may very well have to take over if he kicks the bucket
This is also an interesting read on the economy issue http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/22/AR2008012202614_pf.html
asanque @ 11 said:
Given that U.S. politicians can have a direct say in who can and cannot vote (Florida state Secretary of State/Repub state campaign co-chair Katherine Harris removal of thousands of black voters from the rolls before the 2000 election), the hanging chad nonsense, the doubts about the Iowa voting machines in 2004, that the electors pledged to presidential candidates don’t actually have to vote for them in the electoral college, and other ‘interesting’ electoral idiosyncracies you’d have to conclude that any similarity between the U.S. presidential voting system and democracy is purely coincidental.
Diogenes @ 67 said:
FBI director or maybe A-G?
So 83 - Reasons to support Obama over HIllary include a superior economic stimulus package, a more consistant foreign policy especially regarding Iraq, a more realistically implementable health care policy, and a greater ability for attracting bipartisan support for his proposals as demonstrated in Illinois.
The reasons NOT to support Hillary should be supplemental to that, not the entirety of the reason. (Eg her campaigns ‘he won south carolina JUST LIKE JESSE JACKSON DID’)
Those Kennedys !
Obama is now tied with Clinton for Connecticut. Wonder what changed
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/connecticut/election_2008_connecticut_democratic_presidential_primary
An interesting bit about the superdelegate battle here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/29/AR2008012903570.html?hpid=topnews
This bit from Richardson, would indicate a leaning to Obama:
‘Richardson said: “If I do endorse, it’s going to be a gut feeling. It’s not going to be about statistics, about past ties. I’ve been on the campaign trail with both of them. I feel that I know them. I feel I know the issues. I feel I know what makes them both tick.”‘
That would be a coup.
And Scotty, from your link, this about a ’soft vote’ for Hills in California: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_commentary/commentary_by_robert_d_novak/hillary_s_brown_firewall
#83
Ron:
Have you tried the following link?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama
For more detailed info - go to the Obama site and read the issues covering civil liberties, disabilities, economy, education, energy and environment, ethics, faith, family, fiscal and foreign policy, healthcare, homeland security, immigration, Iraq, rural communities, principals of active citizenship, seniors and social security, technology, and polices concerning veterans.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
The Repug blogs are in a meltdown between the Rombots and the moderates at the moment. The hard right are urging their supporters to vote for that well-known Republican candidate Barack Obama. WTF is it with these people? I’ve heard of Obama having cross-over appeal but this is ridiculous.
http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=homepage
Read the health care policy of Obama & Edwards……similar to ours
not sure thats a recommendation but their employer based system is a disaster.
Obama’s economic stimulus package….
Such an economic policy would lead to a drop in the US dollar & ultimately inflation breakout when their economy is most vunerable.
Definitively not a Wayne Swan calibre.
Foreign Affairs…
Not a strong point overall for any recent US President
For anyone having trouble understanding the American system, try this article, it explains it as well as anyone else has. Although it still leaves you confused. The simplest way I could put it is, their are 50 states. That equals 50 systems. Multiply that by 2 because their are 2 parties with different systems. Answer: One hell of a mess.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Jan24.html
96 Erytnicam, [a greater ability for attracting bipartisan support for his proposals as demonstrated in Illinois.]
Just what is this Illinois bipartisan support you speak of?
I think all the pundits are missing a very important point here about the significance of Hillary’s win in Florida. Everyone seems to have dismissed it. I think it is very significant win.
This was a primary vote that is devoid of the candidates’ campaign, spins, lies, half-truths, pressure etc etc. The people were left alone in peace and quiet to make up their own mind. They decided it is to be Hillary 51% Obama 33%. I would have this type of election anytime.
All I can say is Go, Girl, Go.
Forgive the crudeness of wikipedia No. 104 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama#State_legislature
Finnigans, the problem is that as it was a dead rubber many voters who would otherwise have headed for the polls didn’t bother. Whether this would have benefitted Hill-Billy or BHO (or neither) we’ll never know.
72 jaundiced view: Not if you follow the polls. From here on it’s Hillary all the way.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
100
davidoff , thanks had been over that site.
The pity is neither Candidate is really satisfactory.
But Hiliary’s errors are highlighted by the media plus there’s a strong anti Hiliary factor both here & in the US resulting in less policy scrutiny of Obama then there should be.
Whereas on the Republican side they’ve all had the blow torch applied to them
Finnigans- Wash your mouth out with soap! Or cut your typing fingers off. What is left for politicians if the campaign, spin, lies, half-truths, pressure etc don’t happen? It would be the end of civilisation as we know it. Imagine if the voters were allowed to make their mind up in peace. I shudder to think what would happen. We might even vote for the best candidate for the job. You are a very dangerous individual!!
point of clarity re the ‘kennedy thing”
… Senator Edward Kennedy, Congressman Patrick Kennedy, and Caroline Kennedy have endorsed Obama.
However, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, Kerry Kennedy, and Robert Kennedy Jr. (all children of the late Robert Kennedy) all endorse Hilary Clinton.
Ferny , a non ‘Finnigans’ Florida campaign would result in a Hillary victory.
The difference of 18% is too large to reasonably argue Obama would have won…..but it may have been alot closer
#110 - yes, I deserve to be punished to death. Just thinking of those 76 virgins.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch. Robert Kennedy’s children – RFK Jr., Kathleen Kennedy Townsend and Kerry Kennedy – endorsed Hillary in LA Times.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/the-kennedys-caucus/?ref=opinion
Ron @ 112: What you say is the most likely interpretation I agree.
It’s possible that Hillary’s last minute electioneering in FL brought out her supporters; it’s possible that more of BHO’s supporters stayed home than Hillary’s. It’s probable that the dead rubber skewed the results but we don’t know by how much (or in favour of who). In my view, Hillary would still have won by at least 10%, and probably close to the 18% recorded.
The Finnigans just when i was about to accept your appology u mention the Kennedys….hmmm
The Cricket Monkey speech is on Skynews right now.
Convincing win for Hillary - and as others have mentioned this proves she’s the ‘natural choice’ for Democratic voter. Obama will need to campaign to win. He’s only got a few days left to next week’s super Tuesday.
It’s ironic, but Obama is also in grave danger of being a party establishment candidate if his endorsements continue. This will run counter to his messages of ‘change’ and ‘Washington is toxic and only I can fix it’.
McCain won, but again only with just 36% (ie. 64% wanted someone else).
He’s actually going to be easy to beat for the Democrats and not just because of his age. Why? Just in the last few days he’s admitted what most in Washington already knew - he’s “not really an expert on the economy”… Obama or Hillary will be able to beat him with this quote all through the General Election campaign when the economy will be even more at the forefront. The only way McCain has a chance of winning in November is if national security is on the radar again - ie. he needs an Iran or a terror attack.
Finnigans- You must be male. This is what Osma says a female suicide bomber gets. Warning-Political incorrectness alert.
In a new tape played by Al Jazeera today, Osama bin Laden reiterated that only male suicide bombers will be the recipients of the promised 72 virgins. “In the name of Allah, I say to you: No! Only men will inherit the virgins. It is the woman’s place to please her man; to enjoy the company of the other 71 women; and to care for the resulting 789 children. However, every woman bomber will receive a vacuum cleaner as a generous parting gift.”
John Ryan , McCain in fact will be hard to beat
Vietnam POW who on all opinion polls easily beats all Democrat & Republican candidates for credibility.
Defence is always the no 1 issue ….he wins this issue even with those who oppose the Iraq involvement.
Economy…he co sponsored with the Democtats a limit on Washington expenditure .He has an experience advantage
McCain is getting ‘independent’ votes & left Republican votes
Both Hillary & Obama have weakness’s & in my view not great candidates
Sorry Ron 119, I disagree. When has being a Vietnam vet ever helped in being a candidate for US President?? You can ask Presidents Kerry and Kerrey and McCain himself about that one!
Defence is NOT always the no 1 issue. 1992? 1996? 1976? 2000?
There is nothing to suggest this year it will be. All polling has Iraq (which is a McCain/Repub negative anyway) behind the economy in importance for both Republicans and Democrats. Terrorism is also far behind the Economy as an issue.
As I said the only way defence gets back on the radar is if there is a terror attack or Iran acts up or some other unforeseen event occurs.
Phew!
The Zimmer frames of Florida have spoken! Well, not exactly marched their respective candidates to victory, but don’t stand between a phalanx of zimmer frames and a safe bet!
Mackers squeaked it in past Romnoidy, and Hill-Billy herded those Zimmers like gauchos (what’s Cuban for gaucho? LOL). It’ll be interesting to see the age/race breakdowns, but essentially the Clintons took a Pyrrhic victory with no delegates. (Not to say they won’t get lots Feb 5 of course!).
Still, Obama only needs to poll more than 30% consistently to get enough delegates to stay in the race, and the more he stays in the race…
But hey bludgers, so many posts and so many links, I don’t know which one to read first. It’s a bloody smorgasboard!
But alas, where is Glen? I thought he’d be here to give a concession speech about what a great POTUS Rudy would have made, if only the voters of Florida weren’t so damned contrary!
Oh, well, at least Obama got double the votes of Rudy, so they can’t really all be that stupid!
Howard-Loser
Rudy -Loser
I can’t wait for the next endorsement! It’s the Glen “Kiss of Death”!
The CNN polls showed McCain had the best chance of beating Hillary or Obama ,
so to suggest he will be an easy candidate to beat defies the polls.
The reasons are listed in my blog
Romney , Huckle are real conservatives and much easier to beat
How unpleasant the Maltese is back!
McCain can beat Hillary. Probably can beat Obama too. But that races would be a closer call. Also the age factor is easier to bring up if you are running a 47 year old man against a 72 year old compared to a 60 year woman.
If McCain is elected president, you could hardly see him running for another term. Therefore, his VP is going to have a head start for 2012.
There is a rumour that McCain is a Manchurian candidate for North Vietnam and Obama is the Manchurian candidate for Indonesia. So where is “Hanoi Jane” fits in all of these?
Another interesting link about Indonesia is that Lippo, one of the largest company in Indonesia, via the Riady family, was a contributor and on very good terms with the Clintons. Lippo used to own a bank in Little Rock Arkansas. The plot gets thicken.
In which case Finnigans the Chinese would be extremely unhappy because they dont appear to have programmed anyone yet.
Can somebody please explain to me…
If, for example, Mr Edwards dropped out tomorrow, what would happen to his 26 committed delegates? Would they ‘vote’ for whoever he endorses, or be free to vote for who they wanted… in which case do they publicly state their intentions?
(obviously I’m wondering what happens if he gets out with a few hundred delegates after Super Tuesday, should the head to head race be tight).
Is the Republican system the same?
#126 - The Chinese don’t have to. They already own the US Treasury. They are laughing all the way to Wall St.
Well it looks like the pollsters were right about Rudi’s bad tactics. McCain has got the republican nomination sewn up now IMO. If Guiliani steps down its all over.
As for Clinton winning, looks like the pollsters got it right again. Seems now we are coming to the bigger states teh polls are getting more reliable, or is it just coincidence?
Anyway, I have been saying for a while now that it will be Clinton vs McCain and that seems correct. The worse the US economy gets the better her chances of wining POTUS will become. And its going to get worse.
Interestingly, I saw the first few minutes of Letterman on TV the othernight and he started with a joke about Bush’s state of the union address being his last. He got a BIG cheer as soon as he finished those words (Bush’s last speech…) before he had even got to the punch line. If that is indicative of the position of the Republicans, and the MSM attitude to Bush now, then McCain has no chance of turning sentiment around IMO. He just won’t get a chance to get his message across. The airwaves will be full of jokes about the end of the Bush era. Its a pity to me, as I respect McCain far more than Bush, Cheney and Rove, but to me this contest is already decided (President will be Hillary Clinton for sure) even this far out.
my 2 cents
Mr “Unconscionable” is incontinent again!
You can slag me as much as you wish in your snide and utterly creepy way, but we’ve all seen you for what you really are.
I forgot to thank William for that word, it’s more than apposite it this case.
KR hope u are not referring to our resident closet Lib Edward Toff as we allow Glen in & so we should the barbarians
Wouldn’t you just like to waterboard Ann Coulter?
(Just joking!)
What a twisted little thing she is:
Of course, I might lie constantly too, if I were seeking the Republican presidential nomination after enthusiastically promoting amnesty for illegal aliens, Social Security credit for illegal aliens, criminal trials for terrorists, stem-cell research on human embryos, crackpot global warming legislation and free speech-crushing campaign-finance laws.
I might lie too, if I had opposed the Bush tax cuts, a marriage amendment to the Constitution, waterboarding terrorists and drilling in Alaska.
…ah McCain, you’ve done it again! And thereby upset the self-annointed custodians of all things ugly and deranged in the lunar right.
This is going to be one hell of a show!
Ron, we’re under a big tent here, but the pompous clowns that throw the elephant dung are less than sanitary.
I don’t mind a bit of healthy argument, but low, creepy stuff deserves what it gets!
KR 132
Exactly right. McCain has so many weaknesses that the Clintons will exploit. And with the media tiring of the Republicans and the economy on the nose, there will be little sympathy for the “other side”. Again, I have nothing against McCain, but I just don’t see how he is going to win the big race, given that he will now win the Republican nomination.
As for Coulter, yes well if water-boarding is not torture, then she shouldn’t object to its use on herself. But I would, even on her.
Edwards can’t force his delegates to support anyone, but as they are handpicked for loyalty, he can say ‘If you supported me, I want you to support x’ and they will inevitably do so.
134
Socrates
And they reckon Democrats eat their own! She’s sulphuric acid, pure, concentrated hate.
I know the NY chapter of NOW got toey with Uncle Ted, but at least they didn’t offer to boil him in oil and hoist his corpse to half mast! Sheesh, there’s not a skerrick of decency in her diatribe, and if you took her name off it, and changed a few words, it would sit comfortably on any loopy left blog!
The irony!
So, yes, McCain for the Republicans.
As George used to say, (well, before they actually did!): “Bring it on”!
KR #132: It says something that the likes of Coulter think McCain’s soft because, while wanting to bomb the crap out of most of the Middle East, he’s a bit squemish about torture.
I was able to catch a bit of Fox News this afternoon and saw the republicans give their speeches towards the end of counting. Glen would be disappointed now that Giuliani is history. Although I will say this, if it was a beauty contest, Rudy would have won the ugliest looker candidate with no contest. Man, this bloke could crack mirrors I reckon lol.
Speaking of looks, Romney looks pretty good for a president, until he opens his mouth that is. Maybe he should shut up for the rest of the campaign, it could improve his chances.
On a more serious note McCain’s victory was of significance, he has firmed a full point for the presidency in from 4.3 to 3.3, wheras Romney, todays other big loser, has eased from 9.00 to 18.00.
KR , yes ‘pompous’ is such a delightful description of the Toff that pompous should be a preceding adjective. Many thanks.
Everytime I see Ann Coulter , it improves my image of my mother in law
Ooh aah the Maltese has bared its tiny fangs!!!
And now the Pekinese is joining in too!
LOL — try a little bit harder boys!
Did you plagiarise that Pekinese?
ESJ
maltese…pekinese…2 or 4 legged? Just asking. And ‘hem’ is the vowel correct?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WXdg5y8al8
btw is KR now the Falcon?
That David Brooks is worth reading, (again!)
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/what-florida-taught-me/?hp
…and warns people not to get to sure of things.
He’s actually a very likeable chap, for a conservative.
137
Robert Bollard
yeah, I can never figure how the cogs can get so out of whack that they can equate torturing a ’suspect’ (and their ‘error’ rate is abnormally high!) with moral certainty of their holding the high ground.
Yep, just torture any towel head with the name Mohammad and you’re sure to get it right, well, occasionally!
It’s so creepy, twisted and utterly sicko, it’s beyond me. That McCain at least paid lip service to some ideal of human decency (let alone the ‘quaint’ Geneva Convention) against a barrage of these moral zombies is a huge mark of character in my opinion.
143
codger
you amaze,perplex and entertain in a most cryptic fashion! keep it up!
For the Ann Coulter fans, Al Franken has a little fun at her expense on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHx0oLrGjKY
Is the Dems trying to snatch defeat from the jaw of victory with the delegate fiasco of Florida and Michigan?
An anlaysis by a former Clinton strategist of what is happening with the Democrats:
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_commentary/commentary_by_dick_morris/obama_and_kennedy_raise_the_stakes
And for more fun with Ann Coulter
http://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtml
148
The Finnigans
It can get ugly (uglier?) if Hillary Clinton does not get a big majority of delegates, and she tries to invite these disallowed delegates.
Read this, it spells out the twists and turns:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/30/hillary/
147
TurningWorm
Reminds me of someone! When caught red handed putting words into people’s mouths, she just swishes her blonde hijab (it almost hides her true ugliness!), and asks: “Is this just going to be about me?”
Pure egotistical pathological liar, and creepy.
Glad I got on McCakin at 6.50 before Florida!
McCain
It’s been a while since I read this, but it’s still probably the best flensing of Coulter’s beastly prose by anyone.
Here’s Hitchens on Coulter:
http://www.theliberal.co.uk/hitchens.htm
A little more on the Al Gore speculations …
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Gore_endorse_Obama/2008/01/28/68076.html
Jed, you should cut your profit margin by betting back on Hillary. It’s easy money. That’s how to win punting. The form is secondary. You have read the market well, now reap the rewards.
What a shame the Republicans are going to back a Senior Citizen for the Whitehouse and not a genuine moderate Republican that could of won them the Presidency in November. Rudy’s tactics weren’t at fault especially since he was trashed from the start of the primaries by all the mass media except Fox. I blame the media more than anything else as they and the pundits couldnt be proved wrong in trashing his strategy so they starved his campaign of air time and when they did report on him it was all negative.
Well to KR and Diogenes who felt threatened by a moderate Republican as it was he who was verbally brutalised by some unsavoury comments is very sad but expected of people like them. To even suggest that someone would use 9/11 for political gain other than to demonstrate their abilities and character is sickening. Giuliani had to mention his leadership skills when he was Mayor during the attack if anybody has the right to demonstrate their character it was the people involved in the aftermath of the attacks and Rudy was front and centre so i cannot see that that means he’s using ‘it’ he was the only one entitled to.
Had he been the Mayor of Miami and done the same things, then you’d have a point but this man was there and he dealt with the crisis hands on.
Giuliani was the only candidate with true Republican policies, tax incentives to buy private health care, tax reform/cuts, national catastrophe fund, tough illegal immigrant plan, keep on the offence against terrorism what a shame the Floridians got duped by the media to vote for McCain. If i was an American id seriously consider not voting now. But its over now McCain will win the nomination, Romney and Huckleberry dont have it in them and the amount of personal jibing between them indicates they wont get the VP spot so i wonder who’ll it be.
Oh and Hillary must be happy she won delegates who wont get into the Convention at Denver LOL! Still i hope she wins the Dems nomination, McCain couldnt beat Obama in a sweet fit.
Wonder if George W Bush will endorse McCain for President as a parting jibe LOL the kiss of death!
Thats it for me tonight so if you want to say nah nah, nah nah nah fine but i wont be here so dont waste Williams bandwidth.
156
davidoff
It appears that Uncle Ted has let the genie out of the bottle, and the other blokes who’ve been dudded, one way or another by Hillary, are revving to have a go to stop her.
Cranky old men may not be the best look, and I didn’t think Ted Kennedy looked anything like one the other day, but it’s a risk the ‘gang four’ will be running. (Especially from the ’sisters’!)
Coulter represents the discard from the wanabe feminists
A perfect dinner date for pompous Toff sneaking in the background like a virus
Must be hard everyday to realize Howardism has gone
I’ll run this through Babel Fish and see if it comes out as intelligible in ANY language:
“Well to KR and Diogenes who felt threatened by a moderate Republican as it was he who was verbally brutalised by some unsavoury comments is very sad but expected of people like them. ”
Oh Glen, we’re soooooooo sorry! If only we hadn’t felt ‘threatened’ by that lovely ‘moderate’ Rudy!
Oh, Glen, please come back another time! We love it!
“Verbally brutalised”! Tell that to some of Rudy’s victims!
How does one take this stuff without laughing to death?
Oh, and yes, I actually think Adam is right: McCain is the only human on offer, and at least a capable and compassionate one who will not always bend over for the neocons.
(But his fascination with bombing Iran is seriously disturbing!)
Umm Glen- I’m quite happy for McCain to win. I believe he’s a moderate Republican. Actually, I’d prefer him to Hillary. And I actually don’t detest Giuliani but I thought he’d stuffed up all along.
160
Ron
Not only has Howardism gone, but Australia gets some self-respect back as the Rudd government acknowledges the pain of indigeous people:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Australia-Aborigines.html?hp
…and we appear like civilised people to the world again.
Howardism crawled back under a small-minded nasty rock again, from whence it came. Pity all it’s adherents don’t do the same, eh?
Rudy has left rhe building but he did say
America is the greatest Country in the world that has ever existed and Americans have built the greatest civilization in history.
and all us Aussies developed was the Hills clothes hoist
KR160
Dont often comment, but am turning 40 on 13th February. Apart from a 3rd daughter due within a day or two of the date, what better present than to feel proud in ones country again.
Should be an allround surreal time!
163
Diogenes
No Dio, he “didn’t ever vote for a tax cut in his life” (except that he did!), and so, ipso facto, based on totally incorrect ‘facts’, he cannot be a ‘moderate’ Republican.
Go figure?
Bizarre, just totally bizarre. But then to see Rudy Giuliani as some sort of ‘moderate’ anything is totally disconnected from reality! No one could be more vindictive, aggresive, self-serving, petty and downright weird as Mr Mayor, but poor deluded Glen was upset that the poor shrinking violet might have been ‘verbally brutalised’!
OMG, it’s like a parallel universe, but everything is in a mirror, and Rudy is sweet and wholesome, and he’ll build a giant fence to save them from all those exploding Mexicans, and the Secret Service will wire tap all non-members of the Rudy Giuliani President for Life Foundation, and anyone who ever voted Democrat will be detained and ‘re-educated’ while their children watch…
OMG, and they let him go! Oh, the humanity!
glen
in light of rudi’s demise and mccains probable nomination,will we have a dem or repub for president
adam
still tipping hill or will the dems infighting etc affect the voters pysche
william
have you tipped anyone (please excuse if you have,just interested in your opinion)
166
Harold
Congrats to you, and congrats to us all!
Who said symbols don’t count? Oh that’s right, the guy who owned all the symbols!
119 Ron. You keep forgetting the Republicans are stone cold motherless broke. The Democrats have a massive war chest. I think it is at least 4 times what George Bush jnr had, and he won because of money!
Glen if you’re still there, I’m sure you would be pleased to know that Ed St J reckons Rudd is going super! Just to make sure beyond any doubt that K07 wins again in 10, we should keep a running tally of all the things the PM does this term in office. So far;
- signed Kyoto Protocol,
- given ACCC more powers to monitor petrol prices,
- plans to withdraw troops from Iraq,
- given hospitals more cash to cut waiting lists,
- acting on assisting the homeless,
- will unite people by saying sorry for stolen generation.
Bloody hell, that’s more than what Coconut had done in his last term already. 100+ seats in the next election, here we go!
Further to 170, the Republicans are deserting a sinking ship. Scandal is the main reason.
well done Harold
On this site we have 2 Libs…glen a supporter of the failed Rudy whose claim to fame is his extreme views on border refugees & the closet Lib pompous Toff
3 daughters Harold , you’ll have your hands full when they’re in their early teens
172
Chris B
And now that Rush and Ann (Rush-Ann Roulette anyone?) are firing away at MCain, you kind of wait for the explosion if they manage to do anything but shoot blanks. But rest assured they’ll keep plugging away until election day!
Gotta love it! Best show on earth!
Thanks Ron, They call it comeuppance!
And I have been here long enough to know our 2 Libs. All credit to them to still be here i say, although i think one is starting to waiver.
Glen: I’m always bemused at how you supported Senior Citizen Howard at 68 but not Senior Citizen McCain at 71.
In fact: from 158
Why didn’t I hear you saying?
‘What a shame the Liberals are going to back a Senior Citizen for the Whitehouse and not a genuine moderate Liberal that could of won them the election in November. ‘
That would have been consistent.
You could have also taken your next quote (at 158) straight from your after election comments.
‘Howard’s tactics weren’t at fault especially since he was trashed from the start of the primaries by all the mass media except the Ex-Government Gazette. I blame the media more than anything else as they and the pundits couldnt be proved wrong in trashing his strategy so they starved his campaign of air time and when they did report on him it was all negative.’
Refusing to accept fault and blaming others, at least that’s consistent.
Ooh on review of this evening’s posts it seems the Pekinese is snarlier than the Maltese. Guess we can tell which one has been neutered and which one is still “intact”.
The Specials with ‘A Message for You Rudy’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDQ85Dg-ss
Must be abit stuffy in a closet but like all mice they venture into the real world before scurrying back to the ‘dark side’
and alas for little Johnnie , Rudd has now taken over commentary on cricket …
a daily reminder for the man who lost his own seat & with it his legacy
Gee, some people are sceptics. After all the dragon slaying attempts on Kev, who was equally accused of false promise, what is the problem?
America could hardly be in a worse situation, after decades, decades of allowing the ordinary person to slide into such parlous and perilous personal situations.
At what personal cost, for those whose families and children are constantly engaged, as combatants for America, in war, death, mutilation, expense. At what personal expense for those who can barely live?
I find it difficult to imagine that an ordinary American could continue to contemplate, trust or retain any faith in the Republican way, as represented by the potential leadership, of any candidate.
The youtube Columbia SC, Obama speech represents, invites, stirs, hope. A chance, potential. Thanks to the poster/s, here and elsewhere. I was moved.
Who could fail to be stirred? How is that Obama is able to bring Americans to the voting booth? A singular event.
This is about hope. It is Kennedyesque. I cannot remember if JFK made policy promises, I do remember the tenor of it. Black? And there is the ‘how black’ thing, inasmuch as America deals. Does it matter? Kennedy was against the odds as a Catholic. Did it matter? In the ultimate. No.
Sometimes people go with promise. Especially when every and previous promise is unfailingly unfulfilled.
I remain with Obama. I would consider it a great loss for not only the USA, but the rest of us, if he were not to succeed.
Off topic but possum has a new post showing the Libs as losing more state seats than the nats in recent years, also linked to LP.
Steve , possum’s thread is stating the obvious.
of course the Libs have lost most of the seats…..in metropolitan areas
The Nats have been left with mostly have safe rural seats…the rest are lost
Correction on my part, William. Shall I post again?
Whilst we weren’t paying attention, the US military started to go on the offensive again this month, and subsequently, the US death toll is 37, against 23 for December. Of course, paying Sunni’s to fight someone else (ie Jihadis, Salafists and “al Qaeda”) was only ever going to be a stop gap measure. A ‘commercial break’ if you will, as they are actually paying them about $250/month, to join the ‘Awakening’. (Their corpses, or worse, body parts, keep turning up in alarming numbers with attached notes about being traitors).
McCain, let’s not forget, has staked his entire credibility on his backing the ’surge’, like it was some mythical fountain of victory, and the hard reality is that Iraq is highly unstable, armed, violent, and deeply engaged in a fight to the death between numerous sectarian groups.
McCain is on a highwire act, and could get a very rude shock if someone even so much as bumps the nitroglycerine.
By god, did these guys over invest in a Liberal/Howard victory…
http://www.cafepress.com/election07
Any suggestions on excesss stock, glen?
Agree KR , Iraq will end in US failure…the only question is when
the chaos will increase whenever the sunni or the shia decide
171 - Centre
A few more early achievements:
Rudd has also taken up residence in The Lodge saving the taxpayer mega bucks…he’s also established a team to look at national educational standards…he’s resisted the temptation to slaughtered those senior public servants who had become far too close to the previous government…he has convened the first of many sittings of cabinet outside of Canberra - the list could go on.
In the meantime Nelson and the Libs are still suffocating in the stink left by Howard. The stink is in their clothes and hair - it’s in their nostrils and fills their lungs and they hardly notice. Fancy still trying to defend the rat’s decision to not apologise to the stolen generation. They have no shame.
All this and parliament doesn’t sit for two more weeks. More action than a whole year of life under the Libs.
Steve you have shown no sympathy for Lord Nelson at all
#158
Glen said:
Another view is expressed in a Politico article which focussed more of the inability of Giuliani to leverage the political capital gained from 9/11 as opposed to dredging the event and promoting fear and uncertainty to a population that has moved on.
The last paragraph in the article is telling:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8200.html
185
Ron
I’ve got a secret for you…(sssh, lean over, and I’ll whipser it, but promise not to tell anyone, ok?)
Very quietly…they’ve actually already ‘lost’ it! In fact, except in the mind of Dick Cheney and George Bush (note use of the singular!), it was never theirs, there was no “Mission Accomplished” or “slam dunk” or “cakewalk” or flowers thrown over their tanks. The stark reality is they walked into something for which they were completely unprepared, despite the deafening warnings that were given to them.
Now, don’t tell, ok?
188
davidoff
Stop that! Stop that this instant!
You’re trying to ‘verbally brutalise’ Rudy! You…you…you monster!!!!
My aborted or still in detention post, subject, my Obama love in, cannot appear, unless William releases it. I have no copy, and it was as impassioned as one could have done at time of night. It is just that I inadvertently posted under my own name, so I assume WB is checking or something.
Anyway, KR and others, it was intended to support Obama, hope, and to sketch a small expose of my understanding of Americans, or anyone really, no longer prepared to hear the eternal, unfulfilled promises. The complete drag on individual hope, beyond all endeavour.
To draw a parallel with the sudden sceptics, who previousely supported Kev, despite the claims of those who reckoned he had no policy.
Hope is a method.
#77
Point of order - we are taking about Barack Obama here - there is no need for spin. Here he is appearing at the American University on January 28th with Patrick, Caroline, and Ted Kennedy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gF6ElJO8Kc
193
Crikey Whitey
Don’t fret Whitey, I know the feeling! I too can feel this awful Groundhog day coming, with Hill and Bill trying to get back into the Whitehouse and so many people, sickened nearly unto death by Idiot George II, the grinning chimp, whose severely retarded presidency has all but buggered their country in so many ways, just cannot pull the lever for the 90’s again.
A hard choice, and god knows there’ll be heaps of them who angiush over it, but in the end, they’ll baulk at letting that tag team, fangs bared, whirling and dervishing everywhere, knocking over the vases, smashing through people’s lives left right and centre, while all the time playing the victim, and ultimately they will pull that lever for McCain.
God help America, god knows they’ll need it!
Breaking - Edwards out, no endorsement announced as yet.
IMO Bad news for those of us supporting Obama unless there is an explicit endorsement prior to tuesday.
#196
Erytnicam
Do you have a link?
Ouch!
US GDP numbers are dreadful:
The gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation’s economic activity, grew at an annual rate of 0.6%, adjusted for inflation, in the fourth quarter, according to the Commerce Department, down from 4.9% in the final reading of growth in the third quarter. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had forecast GDP would slow to a 1.2%.
http://thepage.time.com/ Here david
Here:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Edwards.html
Do you confirm my belief that this is a Obame negative KR? The way it plays out if there is no endorsement will be fascinating.
Here is another URL to the Edwards article.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1708125,00.html
Erytnicam - thanks for the heads up.
201
Erytnicam
All I can say Mac, is that I am not surprised, and was pretty sure he wouldn’t last much longer after such a poor showing in SC.
As for how this runs now, sheesh, how does anyone really know? It’s a primary, where some Edwards fans may just stay home, while the others split. I’ll admit I haven’t a clue, and I strongly suspect not too many people will either!
(No doubt we’ll get someone to tell us, however!)
My fear is that large portions of his demographic are crusty old establishment types who want their UHC without compromise.
This sounds interesting:
The former North Carolina senator will not immediately endorse either candidate
…but will he ultimately, and what will persuade him one way or the other?
Three senators and a governor (seriously) left, spot the odd man out.
#203
If Edwards himself does not lean one way or the other then its kind of neutral. Exit polls indicate that Edwards supporters are evenly split between the two other front runners. Where things get interesting is the actions Edwards takes with respect to enforcements - and it seems to me he is doing a good job of setting himself up to set an agenda and pull in the bids. But lets wait another 4 hours and see what the announcement brings to the table.
Quite, KR. I despair more over the naysayers, who would dash or malign the idea of hope. Something we all experienced in our own election, god, year.
The cynics, those who said/say ‘they are all the same.’
I had rather strong arguments with my own Labor friends, who took this view.
Gratifyingly, a final argument, supported by the recently retired Catholic Bishop to the Solomons, in whose company I pleasantly found myself, whilst not necessarily winning the day, shut the mouths of those who would take odds with a hopeful stance.
Where would we be without it? I know. Why do we have children? Why do we care for, educate, argue and discuss with children? If there is no change, why bother?
It is rather as Howard and Co tried for, ‘they have no experience.’
Not good enough.
#206 correction
I said ‘enforcements’ and I meant ‘endorsements’.
Wow - some unhappy people over on the John Edwards blog!
Just for the archives - here is CNNs announcement of the John Edwards exit.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/30/edwards/index.html
Obama reacts on Edwards withdrawal.
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_on_edwards_dropout_his_cause_endures_for_all_of_us.php
CNN here in the US is now saying Rudi is going to announce his withdrawal today and endorse McCain
And the NYT seems to be the first one in with some speculation of the days ahead.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/and-then-there-were-two/
More info from the Obama site:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CGjZy
Edwards is such a rat! I hope Hilary doesnt even give him an ambassadorship!
Kirribilli, loved your Babel Fish reference, I think the result would be “permanent fatal error” unable to translate.
From ABC Online:
Barra doesn’t beat about the bush does he? He’s a take-charge kinda guy.
Foreman material who has just received the kiss of life OR the kiss of death from the Kennedy clan. There’s no movement in the market so far cos the story’s still dripping wet, but I can feel a firming coming on. (Eddy don’t be cheap! Spare us the pun, this is one for little Tabitha)
“Mr Edwards was not expected to immediately endorse either candidate but Senator Obama immediately laid claim to Senator Edwards supporters, saying he championed many of the same causes as Senator Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth, who is fighting cancer.
“John and Elizabeth Edwards have always believed deeply … that two Americans can become one,” Senator Obama said. “So while his campaign may end today, the cause of their lives endures.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2150556.htm
216
Basil Fawlty
Good one! That really made me laugh.
Gotta hand it to him though, he can consistently express his convoluted thoughts in such a consistently convoluted way that it’s more than just baroque squiggles, it’s a giant and splendid maze of contradictions.
But hey, it keeps us amused, what?
Two interesting stories about Obama firming in National Polling and women avoiding the Rublican Party in droves.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/gallup_tracking_obama_gaining.php
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/missing_republican_women_prima.php
219
steve
Just wondering if that Mark Blumenthal is closely related to Sidney Blumenthal ?
Sid’s gone back to work for the Clintons again, and although I’ve always enjoyed his dissection of the rightwing nutoids that have been in charge of buggering the nation, I’m a little disappointed by that decision, but that’s life! LOL
By the way, interesting stuff on women primary voting numbers.
Thanks, a good read.
KR, Sidney certainly has a colourful life but Mark seems to be your regular Democratic leaning polling professional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Blumenthal
Giuliani’s support for McCain was expected, but Edwards’ lack of endorsement so far for Obama is a bit of a concern. Maybe some deal-making going on?
For a bit of fun - here’s GeorgeW!
The question arises - in what way are the current Repug candidates any better on the warming issue? Especially ‘it all started 6000 years ago’ Mitt:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3snis_bushonglobalwarming_fun
JV, they are both seeking Edwards’ endorsement.
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/top_edwards_adviser_trippi_on_hillary_and_obama_theyre_banging_down_the_doors_for_our_endorsement.php
Romnoidy (as in “nerd”, pronounced like “Nu Joisy” for New Jersey!) may as well go home now. If the Noid can’t trounce McCain on the biggest issue around ie the economy (stooopid!), he’s cactus:
Surveys of voters leaving polling places painted a picture of how successful each campaign was. They found that Mr. McCain not only did significantly better than Mr. Romney among voters who listed the war as their top concern, but also did better than him with voters who said they were most concerned about the economy.
Mr. Romney did significantly better than Mr. McCain among voters who said they were most concerned about immigration.
Both candidates now face the challenge of rallying the fractured party establishment and grass-roots conservatives behind them — or at least not around their opponent.
…so now that Rudy (I’ll protect us from exploding Mexicans) Giuliani isn’t beating this issue to death, maybe it will take an even bigger backseat. ‘Coz the economy is sure a hell in the punters viewfinders now!
When GDP growth drops from almost 5% annualised to 0.6% in one quarter, that gets everyone’s attention. Real quick! (Mind you it’s a complex story, and there’s a few bits of not so bad news, but hey, with that much bad news the not so bad news doesn’t go very far).
Anyway, Romnoid is cactus. So now, let’s watch the GOP enjoy their candidate dragging them from the far loopy social right to the hard militaristic ‘bomb Iran’ right.
This oughta be lots of fun.
224
steve
Oh, do stay tuned, as they say in TV land!
Can the AG rumours be that out of the ballpark? Hey, stuff principle, this politics, and there’s gotta be deals done in all those backrooms, or what else are they for?
Thanks Steve - I see that while both Obama and Clinton have spoken to Edwards this morning (our time), it was Edwards who phoned Obama, but Clinton contacted Edwards. It’s the little things that tel the story, I hope!
Since McCain has decided to do nothing in both cases it is hard to fathom why both these issues would be running his way. I think both these issues will be a millstone around his neck when it comes time to fight off the Democrats.
Shit.
I said this could happen - but never actually expected it too.
This really has thrown the race wide open. Some of his supporters will swing to the only other candidate who offers ‘change.’ Others will switch to whom they think their best shot is - somebody who is white, stable and well known
Either way, this all confirms the following:
The Democratic nominee is going to either be black or a woman.
That’s gotta mean something!
Personally, I think his dropping out will benefit Obama, but we will see.
Andy Kohut, the pollster, was just on NPR and reckoned a week or so back, Edwards voters said they go for Obama over Clinton by a roughly 10% difference (he said 40 something to low thirty something), but didn’t know how that split would go now.
He also asked the really interesting question: where do the white male voters go now?
Think about it! It is going to be VERY interesting.
Well I hope Edwards is off preparing a big speech endorsing Obama as a the great chance for change as oposed to Clinton the baggage carrier, and delivers it to an attentive Democrat audience at large, after the media dust has settled on the Giuliani endorsement of McCain.
New York Post endorsement
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01302008/postopinion/editorials/post_endorses_barack_obama_813218.htm
The NYP wastes no time with niceties, does it?
It triangulates the Clintons on their own petard, and calls it for Obama is at the very least, not the re-run of the 90’s move with all its noir imagery.
warming up!
And in California Obama is running a new TV advert with pictures of him and his mother (yes, that’s her, the white one!)
warming up!
But not warming up in Florida for Rudy, ah well, all those exploding Mexicans will be going off everywhere now!
I think Edwards is doing the right thing by holding off on an endorsement. I went to have a look at his blog, and a lot of hard core supporters there appreciate the fact they aren’t just being used as voting sheep. Let them make up their own minds, or give the illusion as such.
Interestingly, from what I read, most of those supporters were divided into three groups. Those who are voting for Edwards anyway, those who aren’t voting at all, and those who are voting for Obama. Very few, if any, said they were switching to the Clinton camp.
I suspect that Edwards, unless he is desperately after a role in any Democratic Administration and thus hedging his bets, will endorse somebody (Obama) just before Super Tuesday - the last surge of momentum. He’ll know if he is going to act, he needs to do so before than, because this is the one day when Obama can be delivered a knockout punch. Clinton only needs to do what the polls have said - win big - and the machine men will fall in behind her, with that being the ball game.
steve-
just out of interest why would the NY Post not endorse a repug instead?
Anyone else get the feeling that if Clinton wins (esp. if it’s via super delegates) it is going to taste like bitter poison to a hell of a lot of Democrats?
I think that getting out the vote for Clinton is going to be very very hard for the Dems, now that their base has had a wiff of what a real “inspriational” candidate can engender in Obama…
In fact, I don’t think the issue for the Dems will be “oh no, it’s Clinton Mk 2″ - it’s going to be “oh no, it’s KERRY Mk 2″.
Fascinating new board odds from CBet
President - WINNER
CLINTON, Hillary 2.40
MCCAIN, John 3.00
OBAMA, Barack 3.15
MSNBC is running an internet poll on who Edwards should endorce.
Currently 15,699 votes are registered with the following preferences:
Clinton: 28%
Obama: 59%
No on: 14%
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22915342/
Edwards by staying in, is looking for leverage & isn’t sure whether to go with his beliefs (for Obama) or go for the likely political super tuesday winner (Clinton)
The first casualty of becoming a pollie is often ‘principles’
although Pollies like Howard had none to start with
Nader considering 5th Bid for POTUS
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23136883-601,00.html
Well at least the worst he can do this time is give us McCain as the next POTUS.
BTW While I was pleased Edwards pulled out, I seriously doublt it will make any difference. It’s going to be Billary v McCain. In fact, I was so convinced of that last night that I decided to have a break from political books and read Robert Hughes’ biography of every true Cynics favourite painter Goya. Happily relaxed and care-free, I commenced reading and the first thing Hughes says is a big thank you to his best mate Malcolm Bloody Turnbull.
Oh well, so much for my sage analysis
I think Turnbull is his brother in law.
nader running is a sure fire way of helping the repug candidate win
According to the NY Times things are now going so ‘well’ in Iraq that:
And it seems that the already promised troop cuts may not be quite what they seemed either:
Will McCain be pleased by the Surge ‘dividend’ going south?
Giuliani endorses McCain and Arnie is going to as well
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31campaign.html?ref=politics
The odds on a McCain win at 2:1 are looking better and better.
Well I guess I have to retract my confident assertion that Edwards would not withdraw - just shows one should never believe anything a political candidate says! This does alter the equation for Super Tuesday somewhat, since I imagine the majority of Edwards’s vote will go to Obama. Some of his low-income-white-populist base won’t want to vote for a black candidate, but they probably won’t want to vote for a woman either, so they’ll just stay home. Edwards’s “left” support (using the word in its very relative American sense) will go straight to Obama. This may put Obama within striking distance of winning CA and maybe other states too, but he still needs more momentum than the polls up till now have shown. I still think Clinton will carry most of the Super Tuesday states, and if she does that it will probably be too late for Obama to stop her.
If Ralph Nader dares show his face in this campaign he will be lynched, and rightly so.
On a different topic - look at the OZ - it’s just received a very very juicy leak from someone in Liberal HQ:
“Libs consider IR u-turn ploy to trap Rudd ”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23137409-601,00.html
Adam, I’ll be happy to form part of the lynch mob.
Dio, I’ll bring the rope!
Adam, don’t worry, not too many of us really believe anything they say anymore, despite our yearnings for the impossible dream, the Camelot rising from the mists of another age (or whatever turns one on!).
As Paul Simon says in one of his most poetic albums (Hearts and Bones):
“the thought that life can be better, is woven indelibly
into our hearts and our brains”
This is could a sample of conversation between Hillary and Obama now that Edwards is out. Names have been changed to protect the guilty parties:
Hillary: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid collision.
Obama: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Hillary: Negative. You will have to divert your course15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Obama: This is the Captain of U.S. Navy Ship, I say again, divert YOUR course.
Hillary: Negative, I say again, you will have to divert your course.
Obama: This is the captain of the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the Second largest ship in the United States Atlantic Fleet, we are accompanied By three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels, demand That you change your course 15 degrees north, that’s 15 degrees north or Counter measures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Hillary: WE ARE A LIGHTHOUSE. F*CK OFF
smile -
we’re onto it on the Fran thread.
Iraq -
over One Million dead since the invasion.
And Hillary cannot deny her support for it initially, so I wonder whether this appalling figure will sear into the minds of the demecrat voters who are unsure about Obama, but who want nothing to do with those with blood on their hands.
Georgie Boy turns over a new leaf, and the other cheek. Perhaps he really is a Christian after all.
“It’s in our country’s interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm’s way.”
Washington DC; April 28, 2005
#246 - Of Human Frailties
On Line Opinion and What the people want are running our own online US primaries, of course with some twists. Not only do you get to vote for both Democrat and Republican candidates no matter which party you support, but you get to tell us why you made your choice.
Please go to http://polling.nationalforum.com.au/index.php?sid=51413&lang=en to complete the survey. It closes midnight this Sunday, 5th February so that we can publish our results before “Super Tuesday” in the US.
If you are interested in results of our previous research, most of this is posted to http://whatthepeoplewant.net/ and on our blog, http://whatthepeoplewant.nationalforum.com.au/. The Federal election material is all archived at http://elections.nationalforum.com.au/federal-election-2007/focus.html.
As always the more respondents we get, the more seriously the research will be taken, so I’d appreciate it if you could forward this email, or the URL http://polling.nationalforum.com.au/index.php?sid=51413&lang=en on to family and friends.
Rasmussen Reports telephone survey.
So the question is - will the Edwards pool (9% of voters) give Obama the 3% to cap Cinton?
Government, whoops, opposition gazette running an online poll re the “Sorry” announcement, overwelmingly in favour. There is hope yet for Australia, has also received favourable comment in major newspapers overseas.
I’ll bet that ben Bernanke is now regretting all those years of being Alan (the “Maestro”) Greenpsan’s ‘yes man’.
It got his bum on the Chairman’s chair, but he ain’t ‘da man’:
But Fed officials were already under fire from investors and analysts on Wall Street who complained that the Fed had responded too timidly to signs of a downturn, and from a small but significant number of economists who complained that policy makers were being pushed by the stock market into rash decisions.
…oh dear, the Sorcerer’s apprentice is swirling around in the waves and just cannot make it all just stop and go away.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/california/election_2008_california_democratic_presidential_primary
It’s a 3 point contest in California with Obama leading amongst white voters.
Silly white voters, don’t they know they are meant to vote based on race!
Davidoff @ 255 - I reckon that is the big question overall now. The poll trend is towards Obama, so if Edwards’ support swings behind Obama big time - perhaps with a grand endorsement from Edwards - the underdog could still breast the tape.
#259
Yep - California represents about 22% of the Super Tuesday action.
Another Republican defects to the Obama camp - but this one does it with a suite of recommendations.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/ravisilva/CGBbB
If its Clinton vs McCain, McCain will win hands down.
If its McCain vs Obama, Obama will probably win.
Welcome aboard the Obama wagon of hope, Glen.
Pity Al Gore is not in the field but with Nader not in the field as well guess can not complain
Oh, so this is what Bill’s been doing lately. Greasing the wheels with unsavoury dictators and letting the benefactors become, well, his benefactors. Bill helps Mr Giustra to the big table:
Upon landing on the first stop of a three-country philanthropic tour, the two men were whisked off to share a sumptuous midnight banquet with Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent.
Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
Within two days, corporate records show that Mr. Giustra also came up a winner when his company signed preliminary agreements giving it the right to buy into three uranium projects controlled by Kazakhstan’s state-owned uranium agency, Kazatomprom.
The monster deal stunned the mining industry, turning an unknown shell company into one of the world’s largest uranium producers in a transaction ultimately worth tens of millions of dollars to Mr. Giustra, analysts said.
…the whole story is here, but you get the idea pretty clearly already:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?hp
…but in case you cannot guess how it turns out, here’s the fairy tale ending:
Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.
…’privileges’ is such a nice way of doing deals with Kazak heavies, ain’t it?
(By the way, a mate just back from there, doing architectural work, tells me the locals all have bootlegged copies of Borat, and they ‘get’ it!)
Big call Glen.
glen
why do you think obama will win
kr
please take some immodium as i think you are suffering from verbal diarrhoea
(and approx 1/3 of all words on this blog issue from your orifice)
267
gusface
Thanks Gus, maybe that you could change your nic too.
Try: gus(shutya)face
That oughta work!
As I don’t seem to recall any need for you to be so rude, I’ll just call it quits, is that OK ,or do you actually have something to say that’s not a gratuitous insult?
Well?
It sure is ESJ but Hillary is the most divisive candidate out there. She cant win over Independents as McCain can and nearly half the population wouldnt vote for her under any circumstances. Also her and Bill’s antics during the primaries leave much for the Republicans to exploit. Plus her nomination would galvanise and rejuvenize the Republicans something that would not occur should Obama win the nomination.
Hillary wont win the deep south or any States there and i seriously doubt her ability to win swing states like Florida and Ohio and even Pennsylvania. I cant see NY or CA changing hands though.
Obama would probably trounce McCain given the age difference, but it would make it an interesting election given it would be experience vs younger generation.
Kirribilli,
There seems to be a lot of pots calling kettles black here.
Can you advise who died and put you in charge of editorial standards.
We need to start a book (centre?)
Cos I will put money on that bet Glen… two-up style…all in the pot, winner takes all… my bet’s with you Glen…$100 on the white chick …(all moneys to be donated) to billbowes constant ruthless demands for help with expenses
270
Greeensborough Growler
When someone comes on, and out of the blue tells you you’re talking through your ‘orifice’, then can we assume they’re asking for an answer?
Did I say anything about ‘editorial standards’? Or gratuitous personal attacks?
The latter, actually.
I type, but its funny for me to imagine someone (gusface?) sitting there talking to his computer one syllable at a time as he types desperately imagining that it’s real human contact.
Mac, it’s real for the ‘droids!
On another subject, I’ve been watching the forums they’re running on Jim Lehrer’s NewsHour on some states to vote Feb5, and they get a cross-section of the community and chat about their issues.
I’ve seen the one from NJ and yesterday was Minnesota, and I have to say the personal stories are sometimes pretty disturbing, Watching the old white guy choke up about having to lose his health insurance after he retired and could not keep up with the rising rates, and then having to ‘beg’ for ‘charity’ when he got sick. There’s a lot of it like that. Another, much younger man had to go to hospital with a ruptured appendix, spent 10 days there and copped a bill for…(wait for it) $65,000. He was lucky, his insurance paid out, BUT, only up to $55,000 and now this student has another millstone around his neck.
It’s pretty eye-popping stuff, and you’d be a stone not to feel for them.
(sorry about the lengthy post, but it’s been on my mind all day, and you know, my ‘orifice’ is just flowing over!)
kr
‘oh the humanity”
sorry that you are so STROPpy but i was only hoping to help in your obvious quest to shorten ,to at least a pithy comment,your diatribes
anyway enjoy most of your posts just pointing out that ongoing vendettas and voluminous contributions (i feel) do not a good blogger make
No wuckers Gus, just some days there’s just so much to rant against!
I hate that newshour is behind by a day and that we don’t get the international edition of the daily show any more. Also that Newstopia is no longer on. *sigh*
On the plus side, Good News Week is coming back!
Mac, I watch the daily show on the net… coz I’m truly tragic!
Curse my lax internet speeds and my inherent loathing for buffering times - or is it embedded video like youtube?
OK, Kirri, so you’re a tragic, tell us about it, don’t be shy, when did you first realise that you had a…errrr…..habit?
Gee I was impressed the way you paused to take the kids for an outing, the beach I think, a couple of days ago.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23137409-601,00.html
Bet they are not smart enough to try it.
KR,
Your bullying indignation is really starting to get up a few noses.
Gratuitous sledges are what makes the blogosphere go round. Have you considered that the personal invective is other bloggers telling you to say what you want to say and get out of the way so they can play too.
270 odd posts and 100 plus are yours. How much of your free basing pychotherapy sessions do we have to endure?
All you are doing is filling band width and making the blog inaccessible. No one wants to turn PB into a tumbleweed of piffle and self righteous self indulgence.
Seriously, you are right up their with Van Der Craats and his Senate Watch contributions of meaningless waffle and opinionated inanities.
KR
I agree, you are getting a wee bit stroppy.
Well KR-
I love reading your blogs, and appreciate the fact that you do much to keep these threads going when it’s a slow news day.
glen
“Obama would probably trounce McCain given the age difference, but it would make it an interesting election given it would be experience vs younger generation” is it that simple? any other issues you feel would sway voters
kr
cheers (the orifice i was refering too was your mouth,if i meant your arse i would said it )
Erytnicam -sorry if i offended you-dont know how but sorry anyhow
general question-why would mccain beat obama (my view is that it would be too close to call)
282 - You are wrong, and this blog should not be like other blogs. Posts like yours are precisely as guilty as what you accuse KR of doing and precisely what I am doing in response.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If two people on this blog disagree with each other, exchange private messenger contact details and have it out with handbags at dawn in privacy so the rest of us are not exposed to the shallow melodrama of warring with anonymous cyberpersons. God knows William isn’t paying hosting fees to enable anyones own private chest beating to alleviate whatever inadequacies they feel will be relieved through such posturing.
Now, to make this post less guilty than other posts, I wonder whether this blog will be offering the one SUper tuesday post, two for repubs and democrats, or (unlikely) 20 odd for each of the states. or perhaps an IRC channel.
285 - you didnt, i just felt like flexing my ego like every other insecure person on this blog :p
And McCain currently beats Obama on name recognition, in a general campaign the current numbers are worse than irrelevant, they are misleading.
I hoe you are wrong g face.
The thought of McCain (or any repug) in the whitehouse after this clown is truly awful. Surely surely Americans must be ready to give them what they deserve, and get rid of all the old guard. That includes HillBill, of course.
Good evening all.
Well….Glen has given the kiss of death to both Grandpa and Obama. Looks like it’s Hillary all the way back to the White House.
Geez GG…looks like your earning your surname tonight (@ 282)
hope.
Growler -
comparing Kirribilli to SenateWatch is surely hyperbole itself.
Not to mention v. insulting.
Jen,
When are you posting that photo you promised us way back when?
Sheesh -
some of you are really spoiling for a fight tonight.
A girl! On the INTERNET! Inconceivable!
Truth though, every girl on the internet is really an 85 year old albanian man true story a friend told me once
Who says i’m a girl?
295
Bugger.
You’ve blown my cover.
Well I am willing to accept you are a girl just a girl with views common in down-town Tirana circa 1985.
If I ever have a male child I will call him Jen or Tiffany for the sole purpose of being able to mislead internet posters later on in life. I look forward to them hating me thoroughly.
That is a truly disturbing comment 299.
Tell ya something GG, if you ever tire of my posts, you are NOT forced to read them!
Tell you something else, I won’t bother to read any of yours. (just like I never bother with quite a few little pissants whose only purpose seems to be to pick fights and be snide little creeps. Wanna join ‘em? Don’t let me stop you!)
See simple, ain’t it? No need to insult anyone (who never insulted you!) and no need to get all pompous and editorial and high and friggin’ mighty.
So, there.
Toodle pip!
hmm, something not right with that….
Perhaps rather than permanent banning William we could have a cooler feature? If you feel at your sole discretion someone is getting too carried away a spell of say 24 hours to reflect would be appropriate?
KR - I have noticed you like the word snide. That always makes me think of the cartoon character with the mustache and the tophat. I like to think that when a poster crafts a truly epic burn they are curling their mustache and laughing maniacally to themselves.
jesus, ESJ… smell blood did ya?
your better then that buddy, even when your being a prick
ESj
Handbags at dawn for the Tirana comment.
I have never self inflicted a tattoo with a biro or worn moccassins with a miniskirt in my entire life.
I think some of you ingrates have forgotten the great work Kirrabilli did at prising John and Janette out of their squat.
And re the photo ESJ -
perhaps you should be grateful for small mercies.
I’ve been told I bear a striking resemblance to Julie Bishop . (And Glen, don’t go getting any ideas.)
305
Erytnicam
It just amazes me how nasty and creepy people can be when they are ‘anonymous’
Of course if you tell ‘em, they then accuse you of being the problem! I think it’s called passive aggressive, and I can well and truly see it in a couple of posters here.
Anyone is invited NOT to read my posts anytime. I’m absolutely fine about it.
But attack me with some snide remark, ‘pedophile’ and ‘orifice’ are two that come to mind quickly, and I’ll answer back.
Now, what were we discussing before being so RUDELY interrupted? LOL
” the humanity!”
Ha jen,
It is ironic with the demise of John Winston that the people who seem to be suffering most are the howard haters?
Jen when I go to jail please dont be my advocate before the people’s court!
Slarty - LOL. Actually I am in quite the chipper mood tonight. I always thought Kirribilli would self-destruct a la STROP of blessed memory
Diogenes - Goya, cynic? I have this vision of you surrounded by books in the Adelaide hills drinking fine reds!
Oh yeah, the Daily SHow, it’s here:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
…and Mac, it keeps me sane (oh, OK, I hear the groans!)
KR - You have a snide pedophiles oriface! This should be like the kryptonite of posts!
I’ve a feeling this blog has lost its way…
Jen,
Hyper hyperbole is the only way to get the buggers’ attention!
Erytnicam @ 286,
Your contrariness is fine. I just don’t understand your logic. Pls explain.
ESJ,
Will you please start a fight so I can get out of here.
In the mean time, this is my excuse and I’m sticking to it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Meh1CqE0_so
Putting it simple- people need to grow up, and respect other peoples’ opinions no matter how different. Must admit my tiffs with Adam do frustrate me but in the end i can understand his view although i will never agree with it.
LOL, I actually liked William’s word “unconscionable” for Mr smarmy snide-winder, it suits him to a T.
And Jen, thanks, if you enjoy my posts on a dull day then hey, that works for me. (And by the way, I’ve no idea who STROP was, or is, but I’ve got no inclination to self-destruct over the piddle that comes from the likes of you know who!)
That really is a classic laugh.
what did happen to strop? he was all over this place like…like..well like KR on the POTUS elections…I went to Darwin for 10 days, came back… no Strop?
Carpal tunnel?
OK fellas-
to bring a note of commonality betwwen us ( an i’ve never heard anyone on PB defend Bush - even Glen)
let’s remember what we are thankfully about to lose…
“I hope we get to the bottom of the answer.
It’s what I’m interested to know”.
Certainly 316! I along with many people don’t want to watch two people go at it like uncastrated poodles when they could be arguing in private and not sidetracking this blog, which I have again been made an accomplice to by responding to a post that is not on topic.
314
Erytnicam
Mac, that last post was addressed to you first, ya orifice! LOL
Hey, this could be fun, we can just act like them and just abuse each other or we could actually do what we were doing BEFORE they started throwing their own faeces.
“Truth though, every girl on the internet is really an 85 year old albanian man true story a friend told me once”
That only applies to those phone lines, you know, call now I’m waiting to talk to you.
“why would mccain beat obama my view is that it would be too close to call”
McCain would not need to beat Obama, there is probably already a redneck carving a cross in a bullet for Obama right now and if Obama becomes the Dem contender and looks serious he will load it up.
As for McCain, I thought that there was a serious push in 2004 to get him to be the VP running mate for the Dem candidate. If so it makes McCain presentable for both dems and republicans. Once Bush goes so does a lot of baggage and people may be confortable electing McCain with a Dem controlled house and senate.
Ah Slarty - as they say in the Labor party there are stayers and there are players.
320 - Glen would defend Bush to be contrary. He is a special Olympics gold medalist troller
ESJ,
While I was composing you started that fight. God Bless You!
KR @ 302,
That is my point, I already do and I am sure others do too. I don’t begrudge you having your say but it is just you have so much love to share, you don’t let the lovees in on the orgy.
And don’t pout and sit up straight. No one likes a whinger.
America will get the president they deserve. It has always been so.
ESJ- Just heard Britney has been detained to hospital on a mental health order. Can I add her to my deathlist?
Goya was well recognised as a Cynic. His paintings and portraits started out with sentimentality and ended in a sustained attack on the horrors of religion, war and authority. And I am surrounded by books but I live in the foothills and I very seldom drink alcohol (might make an exception for the Big Day Out tomorrow tho).
GG since my visit to Kamchatcka I have no more hate only love for my fellow comrades.
Eeeeeeeeeek, it’s a case of the zeitgeist tuning into my brainwaves!
Here’s a headline box from politico:
Huckabee gets love from the ladies
By: LISA LERER | 01/31/2008 03:40 AM
With McCain considered snide, and Romney “phony,” these GOP-leaning ladies can’t help but like Mike.
…there’s that bloody word again: ’snide’!
I knew I didn’t like McCain….it’s too funny.
Diogenes,
Do you go for real installed bookshelves, or particle board?
If MCain and Obama get the nominations, we may start seeing comparisions with The West Wing , now wouldn’t that be fantastic.
Please Lord, allow these people on this blog to determine what a private messaging service is, and how it can be used to stop irritating me. Failing that, please turn the next off topic poster (after this one) into a pillar of salt. I hear your good at that kind of stuff.
Cheers.
Enough fun for one day. Real discussion only from now on.
27
trouble is we get them too.
WB is god? The lord moves in mysterious ways!
While you are here (if briefly) WB will there be an IRC channel for Super Tuesday?
#334 - WB, why took you so long?
If either Hillary or Obama cannot beat a 71 yo geriatric, the legacy of 8 yeras of GWB, the Iraq War, Subprime, Economic recession, housing slump, loss of jobs and Wall St meltdown, the Dems then deserve to be out of the Whitehouse for the next 20 years.
ESJ,
I understand your experience.
You are probably unaware, but the Melbourne Ring Road finishes at Greensborough.
Like Kamchatcka, the reason is that once you get there, everyone realises you have reached the workers paradise and there is no need to go any further.
337 Where you see geriatric, many see war hero. And there is no doubt McCain is a true war hero no matter how much I don’t want his as president. I may not like him but I respect the hell out of him.
Arbie @323 “Once Bush goes so does a lot of baggage and people may be confortable electing McCain with a Dem controlled house and senate.”
I think that’s a very real possibility Arbie. A new President, whether Dem or GOP, creates a circuit breaker with the past. That’s where US politics differs from us where a change of PM simply puts a new face on the old clock. McCain is promoting himself as an anti-Bush and the voters may just buy it - especially if the Dem alternatives are seen as too extreme, or too big a change, or too unfamiliar, or too Hillary.
#339 - The Yankees used to laugh at the Chinese because the Central Committee of the CCP was full of 70+ “geriatric” as the Yankees called them. Now they are thinking of electing one and he is now a “War Hero”. Give me a break and what a bunch of effing hypocrite the Yankees are.
337
The Finnigans
Yep, inclined to agree, but stranger things have happened (well, they elected GWB twice..or did they?)
(By the way, I loved your Lighthouse Post…way back there!)
But it’s the perfect storm for the Republicans, and especially as McCain is in no way a uniting figure for conservatives, it seems utterly unbelievable that even Hillary could lose to him.
I note that a recent poll has 59% of Yanks saying that toppling Saddam was NOT worth it, so no amount of make-up with the surge is really going to change that. And that of course assumes the Potemkin facade does not suddenly come crashing down in the middle of one of his rather dreary speeches.
339
I’m sure that being war hero desreves repect for the suffering he undoubtedly endured.
However as a republican he has supported the Iraq invasion, and ‘The Surge” , with the resulting loss of over a million Iraqi lives.
I cannot understand how someone who has seen the horror of war can be so instrumental in sustaining one.
He has had the sanest approach to torture out of the repubs, and how the others can condone it while in the same room as him makes me nauseous. He can’t raise his arms any more he was so badly tortured.
#339 - One more point, those 70+ CCP members were truly “War Heroes” because they were the survivors of the historic “Long March”. McCain a “War Hero”? Which war? A war that the American invaded Vietnam and got their ass kicked bad. Pls give me another break.
Ferny, how does that work? I mean McCain pretends to be ‘not’ Bush, yet he’s openly more militaristic (you know, “one hundred years of solicitude” for the parents of dead soldiers!) and “bomb, bomb Iran”?
Yet he pulls voters who are both pro and anti the Iraq war. It is very odd, and there’s some strange disconnect going on with the perceptions of this guy.
345
well that’s a point in his favour, but it leaves a lot to be desired in the bigger picture of what amounts to wholesale slaughter.
346 - You are the straw man. It is you, you are the man made of straw that the right likes to erect as a model of liberalism. This is what the right likes to believe that the left believes, because straw men are designed for knocking down.
Your next post should be talking about the wonders of the soviet union and how every single American soldier is a war criminal while you burn a flag to light your bong.
Once again, you are not erecting a straw man, you are the straw man
Edit 346 should be 345
Yeah Finns, that’s the other weird thing about McCain: this is so much of a re-run bad movie for him. He saw a useless war, he knows what it looks like when you cannot even define what ‘win’ is, plus you’re getting walloped.
How does he justify doing the same thing again? is he driven to somehow vindicate the first mistake by sheer bloody-minded adherence to patriotic nonsense?
I must say I find him strangely enigmatic on that whole issue.
343
jen
yeah, what you said!
Another edit -
345 should be 344. sorry.
watched the Republican debate for fun
The Mormon , the ‘Reagan” clone , the clown and the Preacher
and I’m thinking…gee they are better than howards team !
or was it a dream
Thank you William.
337 - Finnigans
Obama is a different story altogether, but look at it this way.
If the Republicans can’t beat a washed up, 40% unfavourable, unpopular, machine orientated hypocritical women whose husband (and let’s all pause to reflect on that a moment, because people seem to not realise how unbelievably ridiculous that is) was in the White House only eight years ago, during which she released an unbelievably unpopular health care plan which frightened people half to death…they too deserve to be out of power for a couple of decades.
McCain is a candidate whom independents love, Hillary a candidate whom Republicans loathe, and many inside the Democratic party don’t like much either. They have the Congress, why not wait four years to take on a new candidate or a very very old incumbent Republican, rather than put up with eight years of her?
Just presenting the alternative view.
If that’s the final match up, it is going to be a bitter and nasty race.
KR, I didn’t say it makes sense, but it may explain why he tends to be ahead in head-to-head polls against Hillary and against BHO (tho this is a closer tussle).
His strategy is certainly to distance himself from Dubyah, and it’s possible that the public could accept him as sufficiently non-Bush to elect him - in spite of the Party he belongs to and his hairy-chested warmongering. Creating strange disconnnects are what election campaigns are about - and there’s nowhere stranger than Uncle Sam.
erytnicam - just worked it out.
Macintyre!!
genius that I am.
So, back to the issue - given your respect for McCain, do you support his stand on the surge, or are you as puzzled as I am the a veteran would support such horror ?
watched the Republican debate for fun
The Mormon , the ‘Reagan” clone , the Clown and the Preacher
and I’m thinking…gee they are better than howards team !
or was it a dream
Mac, Finn’s got a point. Vietnam is like our Gallipoli, we celebrate a colossal military blunder and horrendous defeat. There was no victory, and sod all glory. And we did unspeakable things in it too. (I was shown the creased old photographs when I was a kid, by a guy who was there. They were hanging Turks. He reckoned they fought back to the last breath).
War is not glorious, and anyone who’s been in one, and survived, and shows some intelligence, should not be pushing for more of them.
That’s what does not add up about McCain.
357 - You are what republicans want to believe exists. This is not personal, it is like you are the living incarnation of their hatred for the left.
356 - I have every confidence that McCain is as all there as Reagan was. make of that what you will.
Ron-
my kid’s under-11 soccer team is better than Howard’s.
And they are way in front of the GOP’s offering, although none of then have had quite the same degree of plastic surgery.
As all there as Reagan?
I assume then, you think he is demented.
ok KR, for your sake I will show you what I was addressing
345
The Finnigans Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:41 pm
#339 - One more point, those 70+ CCP members were truly “War Heroes” because they were the survivors of the historic “Long March”. McCain a “War Hero”? Which war? A war that the American invaded Vietnam and got their ass kicked bad. Pls give me another break.
I can only assume that Senator McCain did not make the decision to invade Vietnam all on his lonesome, but rather that he volunteered to be a member of the military, and as a member of that military was put into a war situation. There is nothing heroic about the Americans in totality but at the individual level someone deciding to serve their country, who is captured in the line of duty, who is tortured and who refused to be released while other members of his military remains captured is heroic. I’m sorry, but to watch someone criticize the vietnam veterans themselves is precisely how the Right likes to stereotype the left. The props to communism is merely the icing on the lefty strawman cake.
McCain was crafty in the debate today
With an innocent face he undermined Romney’s leadership credentials on Romneys alleged flip flop to cut & run….the dirt will stick
McCain..he’s done it again..easily won the political debate for conservative votes
predict he will be the Nominee
hey Mac, there’s so much that is truly wrong in all political systems and systems of belief that keep losing wars going.
There’s a lot of good people who think this is wrong, that the people who are getting killed and hurt are not deserving of this.
My hope is that there are enough of them left in the USA to change this, and it will make their own country a lot the better for it too.
It appears to me that the republican voters seem to be more pragmatic than their democrat counterparts. The ability to pick the one who polls the best. While the democrats seem to enjoy sidelining the best canidates. No wonder they spent 20 out 28 years in opposition. The one that polls the best finnishes a distant third?
No one ever achieved change by loosing an election.
364 - Im not sure if your disagreeing with me or not :S
Anyways, goodnight folks, Ive got a uni exam tomorrow, which Is why I spent so much time in here instead!
No Scotty , the Democrats best hope was NOT encouraged by the Democrat Leaders to run (Gore)
I think he’s better than all Republican & Democrat candidates
362
Erytnicam
I know what you’re saying, it isn’t right to diminish McCain’s personal bravery and guts, but I thought Finn was pointing out the hypocracy of commandering a failed and pointless war and harvesting it for heroes in the jingoistic way that Americans (in particular) seem to love doing.
It seems to oblige everyone to forget that they killed millions, yes millions of people for this, and yet they never seem to speak about ANY of them.
War leaves nothing but scars.
362 Macintyre
surely that is the point.
After the absolute injustice that was done to the soldiers who went to Vietnam,both by the governments that sent them and the anti-war reaction that they copped (so undeservedly) on their return, surely a man who has suffered that fate would do everything possible to prevent it happening to any other living person, particularly his own countrymen.
That is what I do not understand about McCain.
Which bit of “McCain a ‘War Hero’ … Pls give me another break” did you not understand?
So then KR you’d not have supported World War 2 or the Korean War or the Second Gulf War to free Kuwait????
War isnt desirable but it must always be on the cards.
Appeasement will get you no where IMHO.
Well KR , we hear the cumulative number of US troops killed in Iraq repeatedly getting updated.
We hear about ‘insurgents’ getting killed (what is an ‘insurgent’ ..a non iraqi ?
We do NOT hear about the cumulative CIVILIAN death toll at all nor even a regular cumulative approximation…its as though such deaths do not even happen
which is McCain & others are guilty of
Glen,
I know it is pedantic, but wasn’t Kuwait the First Gulf War?
Ron.
the WHO released today the figure of over one million Iraqi’s killed.
Okay, but I read quite a lot of stuff this evening, as I looked around the US of US for what would/could happen on the Super Tuesday.
One thing I know, if I don’t concentrate instead on my bill paying, I will be disliked. Not here, necessarily.
It’s all very diverting, yet too I must cook, too, for the Saturday do. I did make a list, and bought some ingredients, and kind of tidied the kitchen.
But I read, that SuperTue may not decide the fate of the candidates.
That reasoning, barely comprehensible to me, means that no winner may be ‘decided’ and that more, whatever that is, will need to happen. Something to do with delegates, perhaps?
As for Nader, please no. Not that I disagree with him, but I do remember what happened. Something like Labor doing Family First in Australia?
And how do newcomers get in anyway? Including Al Gore?
And on that note -
peace.
Nite all.
We do hear of the increased suicide rate though, Ron.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/30/AR2008013003106.html?wpisrc=_rssworld
but it isnot reported as a updated approx cum figure in the media
only the US casualties are
#287
Erytnicam
Google Trends disagrees with you …
http://www.google.com/trends?q=obama%2C+mccain
Crikey Whitey , alot of the State primarys are not win takes all delegates
a losing candidate can get more delegates than the winner as Obama did in one state
Really?
Jen,
The figure was 150,000 only last week. Who to believe?
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s2136029.htm
Greeensborough Growler
you should be ashamed of yourself
Ever since you used the word ‘pedantic’ on glen , he’s away from bloging searching to find out if you were complimenting him
370
William Bowe
The context was comparing the two countries and what was used for patriotic purposes. I took Finn to mean that the Vietnam war was hardly a cause for nationalistic celebration in America, and so annointing ‘heroes’ is an odd bit of jingoism.
My immediate reaction was not to see him ’slagging’ McCain, but the use of the Vietnam War in some perverse way.
(In another way, I actually don’t like the term ‘war hero’, because the person it is stuck on did what they had to do to survive, and it always feels like we’ve vicariously assumed their personal story for some ‘civic’ purpose. It feels wrong to me, that’s all. Note this does not lesson my admiration for anyone who can survive and show courage under awful conditions. I just don’t want to misuse them for more ‘patriotism’ that leads to even more stupid wars).
That figure was from the WHO, what’s more. Clearly Jen is mistaken. KR, you seem pretty determined to ignore the clear meaning of what he actually said.
Not Pete Townshend, the other Who.
380 Ron there is a good table on which States are Winner take All or otherwise here.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
373
Greeensborough Growler - Technically but the Iran-Iraq war is also known as the First Gulf War.
Jen given the situation in Iraq im surprised the ‘WHO’ is able to get any accurate figure. Still how many died as a result of Saddams reign of power more than a million id say.
Iraqi deaths:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSL3048857920080130?sp=true
It’s not WHO, whoever said that.
Not the WHO - http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gRd3Bi6CXI94ke9t9CgxqcZ1wPNw
Crikey,
I think it’s essentially that on S Tuesday, around half of the delegates are won from the 22 states or so who are holding their primaries.
I don’t think ANY candidate can ‘win outright’ on that day, especially when proportional voting is used. However, one will get the majority of them. Conventional wisdom says they will then open up a very large gap, and the party machine will line up behind that one candidate to push them through the later states - the media will make sure that it all becomes a ‘foregone conclusion’
It just seems to be ‘the day’ that a candidate gets enough momentum to see them through.
Of course, if the day ends a virtual tie (same number of wins give or take), that’s when the real fun starts. Which brings us to the question… who here has watched (and remembers) the West Wing season six?
oh KR you fast posting bastard
whatever the civilan figure , if it was aussie civilian caualties we’d regard the number with concern
McCain says ‘progress’ is being made
On this he agrees with Bush
Frankly I see it as a repeat of Northern Ireland but on a worsw scale …how long did that go on despite UK troops and for what benefit
Fair enough Glen.
(BTW, I did answer your questions re the McEwen Appeal)
Sorry William, but I wasn’t trying to be obtuse, I actually read it as a comment about the relative meaning of the wars mentioned:
One more point, those 70+ CCP members were truly “War Heroes” because they were the survivors of the historic “Long March”. McCain a “War Hero”? Which war? A war that the American invaded Vietnam and got their ass kicked bad. Pls give me another break.
The inference is there was nothing ‘heroic’ about the Vietnam war (at least not for the USA).
I agree however, that he’s mixed the notion of McCain the person with the folly of invading Vietnam and it reads pretty badly. But seriously, on my first reading it seemed he was really bagging the US over going into Vietnam. (And then scoffing that this is then turned into something ‘heroic’ in that process I mentioned).
That figure on Iraq is based on interviews with about 2,400 Iraqis, 20% said they had lost a member of their household due to the war, this was extended to give one million dead.
This sort of extrapolation sounds as dodgy as some of the polling we were getting last year and could be significantly affected by the areas the people were polled in and the understanding of the community and households.
No doubt that there have been huge losses, but there is also supposed to be over one million Iraqis as refugees in other countries, this would mean 40% loss of population since 2003/04 and would be very noticable.
392
Erytnicam
hey Mac, you’ve got an exam tomorrow. Go to bed! LOL
I believe with regret that McCain will be President if opposed to Obama
The Obama support in Democrat ranks is being INFLATED by the anti Hillary feeling by Democrats. Onse Hillary is defeated , that anti Hillary feeling disapates
A ’silent majority’ of Democrat voters I think then will not vote in the Presidential election
1/ due to justified concern re Obama’s inexperience
2/ due to him being black (but they will NOT say that to a Pollster
#332
mark marky said
Only thing is Obama’s VP will have to take a heart attack and we end up with McCain as the Secretary of State - and I’m not at all sure I’ll be comfortable with that.
McCain a “War Hero”?
This is pretty hard to misread IMO, unless you mistook “McCain” to mean ‘Vietnam’ and “war hero” to mean “heroic war”
I could see that happening
I can accept that you misread it, but to discount individuals on account of the collective is the sort of wrongheadedness that lead to Vietnam veterans being booed upon returning home.
Similarly just surviving isnt heroic, the fact that he refused to be released in exchange for something that he believed to be wrong is.
The exam is at 815 too, but the gf is studying her stuff in the room with the light on
So instead I will talk with my imaginary message board comrades
What’s the exam on Mac, blogging etiquitte? (Ta Boom!!LOL)
Neurology and Neuropharmacology
#350
KR
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Erytnicam you have missed the point
Its irrelevant whether McCain was or was not a ‘war hero’
He is perceived to have been one and even in todays Debate he continues to play it…which is both crass and for this election immaterial
you clearly have no knowledge of the Vietnam War politics
403
Erytnicam
Crikey, you can hurt yourself with stuff like that!
Good luck.
Erytnicam you have missed the point
Its irrelevant whether McCain was or was not a ‘war hero’
He is perceived to have been one and even in todays Debate he continues to play it…which is both crass and for this election immaterial
you clearly have no knowledge of the Vietnam War politics
Except that the point was made that he was not a war hero which I responded to? I think it would be missing the point to say that his use of war heroism is appropriate, or that the US War was right, or that McCains policies were right.
But if the question is whether or not he is a war hero, I fail to understand how ‘Its irrelevant whether McCain was or was not a ‘war hero’ is accurate.
Which following on has even less to do with knowledge of vietman war politics.
I’d say you misrepresented me if I knew that you understood the original conversation?
Hey Ron post it a third time, just in case I missed it
405
Ron
Steady there Ron, remember, we’re the grown ups here now! LOL
I think Mac took Finns post the wrong way coz Finn expressed himself badly. Crossed wires, and it’s easy to do without face to face expressions.
Expressing really complex and emotional things in type, on the run, is a great way to give the wrong signals IMHO.
McCain is a war hero no doubt. He served his time in the military, was captured by the enemy and refused to bow to torture and inhuman incarceration.
Since his return from active service he has served in the public administration of his nation with great distinction.
Whatever any of us might think of his policies, there can be no doubting of his character or committment to the USA. He is more than entitled to run for President.
Eryt @ 403 - All you need is a good neuropharmacologist on your side apparently. The Mormon wing of the GOP would be right into this. Check this cartoon:
http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?mscssid=8NXGB4F6K8BG8PPEC8GJH73E8TDM3SB6&sitetype=1&did=4&sid=124128&pid=&advanced=1&keyword=undefined&artist=Edward+Koren§ion=prints&caption=&artID=&topic=&pubDateFrom=&pubDateTo=&pubDateMon=&pubDateDay=&pubNY=&color=0&title=Edward+Koren&whichpage=24&sortBy=popular
404
davidoff
And you know, it bothers me a lot more than the grinning chimp’s complete ignorance of the world and naive assumptions about what they could do with troops.
The death figures are arguably BETTER now than before the war started (I’m gonna get killed for saying that by the leftists).
I have some figures on Iraqi death related to the sanctions against Iraq that upset OBL so much. In fact, when you read what he’s said, the deaths from sanctions were his main reason for being so pi##ed off (and the US being in Saudi). And so now I can get killed by the rightists as well. I hope there’s a few in the centre out there to support me.
A UNICEF report claims 500,000 children younger than 5 died in Iraq between 1991-8 due largely to impact of sanctions.
The Lancet reported that infant mortality rose from 47/1000 live births to 108/1000 under the sanctions.
http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org
411 precisely - and whatever we might think of his policies is important - I do not endorse the man, he was a better deal in 2000, and 2008 edition McCain supports bad policies and looks eerily like a 70 year old version of the cockroach from Men in black. (The one with the human suit)
Time to have a look at seeing if money can be extracted from the bookies bag.
In California, Obama is currently paying 3.60, Clinton 1.16
http://www.pollster.com/08-CA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
http://www.betfair.com/
Obama seems to me worthy of a few bucks at this price.
Just for some real life experience context stuff as concerns this hero business … back when I was young, there was this guy called Max, his boss was called Fifi by his friends. One day Fifi was giving Max a hard time - and as I recall - this is how the conversation went:
Fifi said:
Max replied (while leaving the building):
Fifi shouted down an empty stairwell:
415
Erytnicam
Yep, but I still don’t think Finn was really saying that McCain wasn’t one, but that the Vietnam war was not something ‘heroic’ for America.
It just was expressed very badly.
KR, how can you be so sure he’s not just an idiot? It seems pretty plain to me that he is, and that you’d have no trouble recognising this if he was conservative and pro-American.
To say that something was expressed that badly, then assign a less horrible meaning to it is to defeat the point of the english language.
I think that is a ball.
What erytnicam meant to say is that that object is a space shuttle, he just expressed it very badly.
I mean for Christs sakes lets just communicate in binary beeps and be done with it!
If you agree with this proposal, two beeps for yes, one for now.
419 expressed it more elegantly than I did.
416
steve
It’s the bloody ‘narrowing’! It’s back to haunt us all!
By the way, did I detect just a moment of doubt from Adam today?
Nah…tell me I’m dreamin’!
Also 419 can edit his own posts - intriguing
419
William Bowe
I can’t, but somehow the main reference seemed to be the actual war, not so much about McCain.
Hey, I’m an idiot too, because I often get replies that so totally take me aback I realise I’ve been misconstrued completely.
Erytnicam ,are you studying to be a neurotic
Of course McCain is a war hero but thats not the point on 2 counts
To us many Aussies who served in Vietnam before you were born & saw Aussies die for a LIBERAL PARTY WAR, McCain’s current skiting of his war record & US patriotism for Vietnam is sickening
In your little room studying how to be a neurotic , such jungle fighting is all academic as your courage resides in computer key strokes
Steve @ 416 - Agree Obama good odds at present, and most likely won’t get longer, so now is the time to get on. If Edwards comes out with a strong endorsement before Tuesday the existing poll trend in Obama’s favour will probably accelerate. If it was a horse race, with form like that and only two starters, one wouldn’t hesitate.
419 revisited
Ouch! Mad old lefties are easy William, they say stupid stuff sometimes but their heart is still in the right place.
Mad rightwing nutters say weird sh!t that makes you wonder where they put their heart.
KR , they would not last a minute in the jungles of Vietnam before deserting
With respect, Ron, there’s an argument going on here about whether or not McCain is a war hero. Your assertions that statements made in the context of this argument are “not the point” seem a little out of the loop.
Yeah, and there is the rub. You and I don’t get a vote. It is up to the American people to sort out their issues. While I agree that MCain is one or two elections too late, if the Dems can’t sort out their internal differences, then McCain will become the real option.
This is a conservative electorate that elected and re-elected George W so a new President who purports to be tough on their enemies while sorting out the problems of Iraq and islamo facism will be very attractive.
The threat of all out nuclear annihilation is likely to focus the attention of Iran and others. Weakness never won nothing in international diplomacy.
I should probably exit the arena at this point, Erytnicam is doing perfectly well making the same argument as me.
I’m not disputing he WAS a war hero 40 years ago
But McCain’s current skiting of his war record & US patriotism for Vietnam is sickening to Aussie Vietnam vets which makes Aussie Vietnam vets dismiss his deeds due to his current misuse of it in a political debate as he did today
420
Erytnicam
Funny!
beep
nah, it doesn’t work for me!
I wasn’t trying to defend Finn, I just didn’t read his post and go ‘oh, he’s said that McCain is not a hero!’.
I read it and thought this guy really hates the whole idea of what happened in Vietnam, and calling anyone a hero for it is somehow ‘wrong’.
But it’s far too late for de-constructing text that’s been flung off into cyberspace by people who really, in all honesty, do not have a great command of expressing themselves with nuance in the written word.
Sigh.
Fry sliced courgette and onions in butter and olive oil, till golden but not too soft. Gently stir in some tarragon. Remove and keep the oil, if not too burnt. Coat patted dry chicken pieces with a mixture of wheatgerm, tarragon, some cracked pepper, lemon rind if desired, fry gently in more olive oil and butter, till golden and not bloody. Depends, that, on whether it is too be reheated.
Place the courgette and onion mix at the base of an oven proof ceramic, as the best vessel. Add some home made or other chicken stock to moisten. More or less. Exercise judgment, if cooking in advance, for reheating and for ensuring that the courgette mix provides adequate liquid. Pop the chicken on top.
Ensure no drying out, when reheating. Add more stock, if necessary. Result should be moist chicken pieces, not soggy on top, a juicy courgette brew for spooning onto the plate.
Goes wonderfully with oven baked potatoes in skins and a light salad, if at home.
The wheatgerm, bought somewhere in a packet, will put out some wonderful flavour and oils, with the courgette.
I recommend this recipe, as I invented it. Possibly healthy.
Still knitting my brow at the responses around the candidates, thanks so.
429
William Bowe
Goodnight William, and thanks for tidying up the sandpit (again!)
Like all right wingers , substance is expendable when their arguments are exposed.
Just like Vietnam , the Libs put us in an unjustied war with Iraq and again Labor has to fix the mess
#380
All Democrat events are proportional - the Republican events are about 50/50 between proportional and winner-take-all.
432
Ron
I think we both have some aversion to McCain’s ‘using’ the whole idea of Vietnam in today’s political context as if he’s ‘entitled’ to a super-patriotic stance.
What’s patriotic in walking around Baghdad, as he did some months back, claiming it was like shopping in the mall back home, while helicopters circled overhead, and the surrounding market seethed with armed troops?
He gets away with something nobody else could, and he gets it from the ‘war hero’ stamp on his forehead. He uses it, of course, but nobody should be afraid to ask what is ‘patriotic’ about sending more young Americans to Iraq so that they can come home in bits, or in a box.
437
davidoff
then this may keep Obama in the race unless super tuesday is a wipe out eh ?
KR , agree and thats whats sickening of his abuse of his 40 years ago record because it almost makes him a non war hero by his abuse of it
which was my point
and this was the point that went right over the head of neurotic Erytnicam
#438
When we look at the member states of Europe (East and West), the Middle East, China, Japan, etc. - these are countries with historical depth. The United States of America (much like Australia) is young - and lack the historical cushion. Here in Australia we are still coming to terms with the idea of ourselves as a self-governing independent nation - and equally the United States of America is still coming to terms with its role in the world. With the absence of history (and the collective consounce that this represents) things like ‘patriotism’ and ‘heroics’ come into play at a level that is frequently viewed as disproportionate by more mature nations. But this underlies a greater evil - the need/desire to be seen to be winning - no matter the cost - to walk away a hero.
What is still missing in the American consciousness is an empathy for the mothers retrieving the dead bodies left on the road as the hero exits stage left.
#439
Exactly - if Obama can keep his numbers up then a scenrio exists where the subsequent states can have a voice and the superdelagates can play their games. This is where Al Gore would most likely kick-in with a Obama endorsement (which would sent a rocket into the superdelegate debate).
441
Ron
Look, I think Mac’s reaction has a place, and Finn’s post triggered it alright, but it’s very hard to judge people’s life experience from a few (often badly composed) sentences.
SO maybe it’s best not to assume too much, and then argue from that assumption, unless of course it’s…(insert your worst troll here!)
Nice words,
But what about WW1 and 2, Waterloo, Agincourt, The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution. Vlad the Impaler etc. etc .
What was that about empathy for grieving mothers?
Except Ron, you are arguing a completely different fight as has been pointed out to you several times :S I haven’t refuted what you have said once, and I have barely responded to your attacks on me, or you strange use of the word neurotic :S
I’m honestly confused, because I haven’t once argued differently to you. You are asserting something I have not said. Baffling.
And thanks for leaving it to me William, now I’ll NEVER go to bed :p
It would help Ron, if you could quote precisely where the disagreement arises, and which part you disagree with. Because Ive got to be honest, one of us is confused as hell about what’s going on, and I can’t tell if it’s me or not.
I am so unbelievably confused as to who is arguing with what about which issue. And that doesn’t happen very often (unless Glen in here, in which case it is a bunch of people arguing with Glen about everything he says).
Perhaps in the light of day discussion will divert itself back to the primaries.
442
davidoff
There’s a lot of conflating Iraqi with 911 in the American pysche, and we all know who’s to blame for that. Hence they have little to no empathy, and by ‘they’ I mean those average Joes and Jo’s who do not think for themselves, get their world home delivered by Fox cable news, and have no more idea of what a stinking sewer of horrors their invading Iraq has unleashed than what’s on the other side of Mars.
This is the problem with America. The complete corruption of ‘news’ and the national narrative by a media so seduced by the ‘idea’ of the Imperial Super Heroes of the Whitehouse and Pentagon that they have created a fantasy out of everything they’ve done.
It will take something special to change it in any positive way, but not electing another republican for president would be a good start.
My argument - McCain is a war hero irrespective of justification of the war.
Ron - Your missing the point, it is wrong for McCain to exploit his war heroism
Me - I never said anything about that either in favor or against.
Ron - NEUROTIC NEUROTIC COWARDLY TYPIST
#445
Thank you!
This are all examples of historical context. If you go to Romania and you talk to the locals - you get get some real in-depth, and graphical background on Vlad. Head west and talk with the French about the different revolutions (and the real extent of death and destruction - and the times where nothing actually happened but novels have carried the reality much further than the truth), watch real reconciliation between German and France, head north and talk about Waterloo with some real historians - and from all of that you get the impression that there is a genuine understanding that wars come at a price - and that sometimes, being bold, heroic, valiant, and brave - is just plain dump stupid ignorance forced on people by the entity in control.
Grieving mothers pick up the pieces. Real heroes walk away with tears in their eyes, hands shaking, and saying under their breath - “never, never again”.
Europe’s down 2% and there’s an ugly stain in the US futures as they get very nervous about the bond insurers.
All that rate cutting and the market hasn’t just gone straight up is a ‘not good’ omen.
This is one hell of an interesting year and it’s hardly started!
Mac, I order you to go to bed! LOL
Looking at CA’s past polls, I’m not sure there is value in $3.50.
RCP Average 01/13 to 01/29 - 45.0 33.3 10.5 Clinton +11.7
Rasmussen 01/29 - 01/29 807 LV 43 40 9 Clinton +3.0
SurveyUSA 01/27 - 01/27 888 LV 49 38 9 Clinton +11.0
Politico/CNN/LAT 01/23 - 01/27 690 LV 49 32 14 Clinton +17.0
USA Today/Gallup 01/23 - 01/26 779 HT 47 35 10 Clinton +12.0
Field 01/14 - 01/20 377 LV 39 27 10 Clinton +12.0
PPIC 01/13 - 01/20 543 LV 43 28 11 Clinton +15.0
I stand to be corrected, but does anyone know any more about the CA race?
Talking about ‘enemies’, isn’t it bizarre the way the USA makes such a fuss over a flea like Cuba?
I mean, the SOviet Union collapsed, but no, they MUST at all times, and resolutely deny anything which could assist the poor Cubans because they have a (shock horror) Communist dictatorship!
Tell me what ignoring Castro and just pretending he wasn’t there would do that so diabolical that they have to expend that much energy trying to strangle the place?
It makes no sense to me.
#455
Its simple - when Castro dies - America claims victory.
Some blogers have bought the McCain bait as did some in the CNN debate today
McCain lost the respect to be called a war hero from 40 years ago when he currently so tainted his record by his current political abuse of arguing that any opposition to the unjustified Iraq war is unpatriotic and that “he knows because he was a POW”
2,976 Aussies died in Vietnam and 56,000 Americans. They were all a war hero
many of whom died despite patriotically opposing the war
Asanque at 454, try these nationwide figures. The junior senator from Illinois has unleashed a paralysing burst in the back straight. Seems he’s got plenty left in the tank.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/104044/Gallup-Daily-Tracking-Election-2008.aspx
The following seems to be a good article in terms of framing the importance and potential impact of Super Tuesday relative to the overall race.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_commentary/commentary_by_rhodes_cook/super_tuesday
Enemy Combatant , yep
Obama nationally is only 6% behind and this Poll was taken before Edwards (who polled 12%) pulled out
On those figures you’d expect the % ’s to be about tied after distributing Edwards votes. If so , super Tuesday is going to be close in alot of States with CA the important one
A statement before I go to bed.
Would it be accurate to say that a “win” for Obama on Super Tuesday is to be within a few hundred delegates of Clinton? (remembering that by that stage around half, or 2000 delegates will have been awarded) It seems to me that she needs to knock him down right here, right now, or else she is going to be overrun by the tide which is carrying him.
A month ago the case would have been whoever wins the day all but wins the race. I think the point has been reached where the line in the sand isn’t ‘who can get past 1000 delegates after the day’ it’s ‘will Clinton have enough of a lead to starve off his oxygen?’ Obama simply has to win a big state or two and say ‘hey, I’m still here.’
Just my thinking.
#461
The republicans seem to reference a 15% lead as a definitive number. If we take that value it equates to a 272 delegate lead post-super-tuesday. Keep in mind that the phases basically break down as follows:
pre-super-tuesday: 137
super-tuesday: 1,681
post super-tuesday: 1,435
superdelegates: 796
Assuming a 3:2 split to Obama on existing Edwards delegates, we have a starting point of:
Obama: 80
Clinton: 57
Lats say that Obama gets 45% of the bound delegates and Hillary pulls in 55% on super-tuesday:
Obama: 756
Clinton: 925
That brings to total bound delegates to:
Obama: 836
Clinton: 982
I.e. a Clinton would have a lead of 146 delegates (or 8%) over Obama which is only half of what would be need to argue a mandate end-game. With another 1,435 post-super-tuesday delegates sill in the running the race would remain wide open. Into this are some 800 superdelegates that are not bound (although about 200 has indicated their intentions). If the post-super-tuesday events do not settle things - the superdelegates get to play their game big-time and you can be confident that the principal subject will be which delegate is most likely to whip the Republican opponent and guarantee the Democrats their victory.
Personally, I figure Obama is going to do better than 45%. In fact - I’m estimating that by the end of super-tuesday Obama will have gained about 860 bound delegates (representing about 48%) following which All Gore will give him his endorsement and we will witness the beginning of the end of the Clinton dynasty.
There was a big thunder storm here last night. Pelting rain, fallen branches and debris everywhere. But I slept well, very well. I had a dream. I dreamed that one day we all will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men and nations are created equal.” That is all.
Obama sets fundraising record of $32m in January:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/story/0,,2250306,00.html#article_continue
Also rumours that the TERMINATOR will endorse McCain, hasta la vista baby.
Baz…
“Dis eez vot dee peeble off Kah-lee-for-nee-ah eleggded me to do!
Hi all -
sorry about the misquote last night re WHO figures. Got that wrong.
not sure who to believe on the casualty figures- the discrepancies are huge.
Max @ 461,
It’s an interesting thought, and I tend to agree.
Obama is bound to win Illinois, of course. (It’s about the fifth largest State at the Dem convention, and it’s on Tuesday). I’d reckon he needs another big one on Tuesday, and a decent smattering of small/medium States, to stay in the race.
Although I’m not sure how the delegate allocations work - ie which States are winner-take-all and which States work otherwise?
Any thoughts on the Maine (R) race, anyone? It’s “today” (effectively tomorrow for us Aussies).
#468
All Dem conventions are proportional.