Lateline has reported that tomorrow’s Newspoll will show Labor leading 57-43 on two-party preferred. However, the big news from the survey comes from the preferred prime minister ratings: Rudd 70 per cent, Nelson 9 per cent.
UPDATE: The Australian’s graphic here. Note the question on the stolen generations apology, which puts overall support at 64 per cent. It would be interesting to see a state-by-state breakdown, because Westpoll’s survey of WA voters (published in The West Australian on February 11) showed 44 per cent in favour against 46 per cent opposed. Elsewhere in The Australian, that shameless Labor booster Dennis Shanahan reports that Kevin Rudd’s preferred prime minister rating has “overtaken the previous highs of Mr Hawke, on 60 per cent, and Mr Howard, on 67 per cent” – but with respect to Hawke, it must be remembered that the peak of his popularity was in 1983 and 1984, and that Newspoll did not commence operations until 1985.
627 Comments
Just when the opposition Fan Club were trying to convince us that Swan would be the first parliamentary casualty, it turns out to be their own fearless leader. Isn’t politics a wonderful leveler.
With a PPM like this for the Libs, no wonder Milne decided to revive Burkegate.
I reckon the question needs to be asked: How low can Nelson go? Is there any historical record that shows the relative PPM ratings? Has any Opposition leader ever scored in the single digits?
And how long can that go on before a real Liberal leadership spill? The way Abbot’s been shooting his mouth off, it’s clear he regards himself as the Conscience of the Liberals…
Is it just me or is Gareth Evans metamorphosing into Lenin?
After 4 Corners tonight, they should do another poll, and see if there’s anyone left in Australia that would vote for such a pack of spineless mealy-mouthed dills.
What a laugh, it only took Costello 13 years to realise that the Rodent was not a man of his word! Furthermore, he NEVER had the numbers to roll him, but ponced about all that time as if it would somehow miraculously be handed to him.
Great show, great ending.
Thanks Australia, it only took a decade, but you got it right eventually.
GODddd. This is tricky, even mean.
I received the Topfield recorder, purchased over the scary ebay.
It arrived without a power cord, a loop cable, whatever that meant, etc.
Sweating it out, in the present heat, I managed to assemble the bits. Took a power cord from my old trannie. Kept plugging cables in to the loop thing until I found a fit.
Rang Topfield today. Reckoned I was on the right track. Did what one should do with the TV settings.
And it worked!
And now, I only want to instantly record Lateline, for posterity.
Something I wanted to do, for a whole year!
Re 4 Corners: Did you note, hidden among the finger pointing, angst and dashed hopes, Dolly Downer’s pithy assesment of why they lost? Here it is…
…LONGEVITY!
That’s it. Nothing to do with b*ggering the economy, Workchoices, AWB, children overboard, interest rates or a thousand other sins. Nup! They were done in by -
LONGEVITY!
They’ve obviously done some serious soul searching and have clearly learned their lessons.
7 Ferny Grover – Perhaps this Newspoll will provide them some moments’ pause. Or, perhaps, the Libs will just keep walking right off that cliff stretched before them.
Turnbull must be shitting bricks. Seeing all his grand dreams for a 2nd-term rescue of the Liberals going up in smoke…
and what reputation would Glen Milne had as of yesterday
Zero one would have thought.
But on 4 Corners , Costello made him out to be a ’sucker’
Brendan Nelson is a joke.
Yeah, sure did, Ferny. That could be why Dollie is decamping.
Love the Newspoll, just came on!
Do you reckon the Libs will introduce a version of speed leadership similar to the fashion of speed dating. After a very short time (maybe six months) you move on to the next leader. Electorate can exchange details with anyone they really like.
We can then get through the backlog of potential leaders so the Libs can start afresh.
Unlikely though, these fads are full of sleazy types.
The helicopters are just one of a number of defence procurement projects that are running behind schedule, over budget or don’t work as intended.
On ABC TV, Mr Fitzgibbon said he was horrified by the procurement mess left behind by the previous government.
“What I see horrifies me, I’ve inherited an absolute nightmare,” he said.
http://news.smh.com.au/labor-may-abandon-seasprites-fitzgibbon/20080218-1st8.html
expect loads more of these absolute nightmares
On Four Corners
And just gonna, repost thanks William. Cringe.
On Four Corners
Bears out my assessment ( and Arthur Sinodinos’) which was among the earliest signals. Sinodinos resigned after the early post-Rudd and Julia polls. First signal that someone within the Libs knew they were about to go down the gurgler.
And the program, admittedly old news, does stand as a stark contrast to the public face of the Liberal Party as they took on each of the dismal, for them, polls.
Pretending, as they did, that all was well.
Not, must I angrily say, that this stopped, in fact reinforced their need to rape and pillage for themselves and their mates. I mean superannuation. Put in your million bucks for a tax free bonus. Before we lose office.
Well, I just hope they borrowed freely, and are now paying the price vis a vis interest rates and stock market returns on super investments.
12 Greensborough Growler – LOL!
Leader of the week, who will it be?
Newspoll holds the key!
It’s up to you (and Glen Milne too)
Pick the Leader of the week!
Well the two lessons the Liberals need to learn is that public displays of disunity as revealed in the parliament last Wednesday morning during the apology to the stolen generations and dragging out their version of workchoices through the senate committee process spell political trouble.
As a few others have remarked, there wasn’t a lot new in Four Corners, but it was interesting to see the various ex-ministers having their say, particularly Costello.
I think the buck should really stop with the Liberal backbench. While there is an argument that Costello was gutless for not challenging, there clearly was no mood to give him the numbers. Some of the ministers could see that change was needed, but it really required the backbenchers to apply some pressure for change. They preferred to go down with the ship.
Keating had a lot more guts than Costello, but he also had some backbench supporters who worked hard on his behalf, and it was always foreseeable that a couple of leadership ballots could get Hawke deposed.
Really, Costello should have accepted the leadership when Downer was on the way out. But Howard conned him. And Howard conned the lot of them with his line that he’d only stay leader as long as his party wanted him. Once again, where were the backbenchers calling for Howard to go?
As for the latest poll, it’s no surprise and means little, except that the public like what Rudd’s doing. Particularly keeping his promises, I suspect.
I could have missed it on 4 Corners but I did not hear policy interest in the future , only individual selfish self justification of themselves ????
The references to workchoices clinically poll driven reponses rather than understanding the philisophical flaw inherrent in w/c
Pollie speed dating: people skills one week, an iron bar the next. I’m getting moist.
18 Ron – They still think they’re in the right on Work Choices. Hence the desire to tie up the repeal in the Senate. That’s winning them votes, I’m sure.
Who are these 9%?
Front Bench, Antonio, Front Bench.
21 Geoffrey Keed – You can get 10% of a sample to agree to anything, however bizarre. The fact that Nelson has fallen below this threshold is just a sign that at least 1% of that sample watched the Sorry Day debacle.
Geoffrey….the 9% would be the current coalition members….their mothers, kids, wives, a couple of budgies and an old dog that hangs around Hockey hoping for some leftovers.
is 9% the lowest EVER PPM??
Denis Shanahan reports.
In an ominous sign for the new Labor Government, they now lead comprehensively on the PP ratings. As everyone knows leadership on this and who is best able to manage the economy were a poisoned chalice for the Liberals under Herculean stalwart John Howard. If such a successful PM as Howard could not withstand this curse, then what hope the unknown and under qualified Rudd.
The percent nominated include those who have yet to make up their minds, on which way they will vote, as concerns the 2007 Election.
This percent of undecided cut quite a figure, not necessarily glamorous, in the first polls post election.
9%? What are their names?
Enjoying the party of Nelson’s 95 but in 3 years 45% of 2PP voters will vote ALP or LCP anyway.
Can the LCP clone ALP with Malcolm & Julie
How difficult to convert the LCP from the extreme conservatives dominance to
‘wet’ liberal philosophy policys or are these been driven out ?
Oh dear, Greeensborough. Must I read Shanahan? The worst? Already!
I believe the holder of lowest ever PPM was, in fact, Lord Downer….
Until now.
BB,
They are all called Clyde. Might be an outlier!
I’m told it would have been worse for Nelson but the pollster made a policy decision to accept maniacal laughter as a positive response.
Mind you, no one but I seem to have noticed that Julia is wearing her old clothes and Julie has new and even very white attire.
Of course, the lack of any paperwork means that one’s clothes will not be dirtied, with paperwork and so.
But white does show the blood stains.
24 [an old dog that hangs around Hockey hoping for some leftovers]
Wash your mouth out Ferny Grover, we all know via a hard hitting expose from Brisbane ABC radio’s Kelly Higgins Divine that Joe is a cat -person. He even pulls up his car in heavy peak hour traffic to rescue stray kittens.
Hope you haven’t fallen for the propaganda on his website put their by people who don’t understand what a warm cuddly man he is. The story he told Kelly Higgins Divine was so sad I cried myself to sleep for a week. It also turned me from an avid ABC listener to a very occasional listener.
7
Ferny Grover
Astounding self-analysis, isn’t it?
What an appalling bunch of suck-holes to ever do the conga!
Chuck Admiral Horatio Hornet to the fishes, and bring on the Mad Monk for god’s sake! Even god would find that amusing, no doubt.
And then when we’ve dry-retched our way through his unctious and sanctimonious bile for while, we can have Malcolm for a bit of fun and then when everyone’s bored senseless and thoroughly confused, they’ll chuck it to the chick: “Here ya go Julie, you’re the leader now. Who said we don’t believe in equal opportunity?”
Love to see, Kiri B, Julie up against our gal.
Rudd 70% – Nelson 9%
Labor 57% – Coalition 43%
2 losers here.
Horatio Nelson
Rooster Swan.
wonder whether Turnbull,Abbott,Tanner and Emerson smiled.
The bit I liked abou the rehash of Burke was Abbott saying Rudd was “Macchiavellian”, and clearly had a sneaky streak.
Nearly choked on my glass of chardonnay I did.
Dr Nelson and his 9 !!
57-43, such a predictable set of numbers, I believe the Liberal Party are going into the Toilet paper business
…and Nelson’s still in his honeymoon period…
Tanner, probably, HarryH.
A far better analyst, policy developer. But time will tell.
Turnbull may well have a good grasp of the words to say, as Opposition Treasurer.
Guess Kev will deal with, if it becomes a problem.
You mean, gulp…………….. This is as good as it gets?
Glen will not be pleased.
Zoom, Nelson may be in his honeymoon, but I suspect the Doctor’s wives are already seeking a divorce
Nonsense, Beemer, I heard him say on Lateline the other night that he suceeds at everything he does.
So BOTH his marriages are obviously outrageous successes.
Equally astounded, Bushfire Bill.
Abbott apparently does not understand that he regularly deals with the Machiavelli types.
I think he aspires too learn, but hell, if you can’t cut it as a Jesuit aspirant, hope, none.
Yes, 9% is very successful
Rock Paper Scissors for the Opposition leadership anyone?
to be judged by Bruce Flegg or any available member of the Qld Lib leadership.
when Laurie Okes 7 Michelle attend the press Club , they must shake their heads realising both Shanahan & Milne are part of their professional ‘family’
Now maybe I’m reading too much into this but I smell a double dissolution in the offing. The ingredients are there:
1. A popular PM and government.
2. An unpopular opposition and opposition leader.
3. A hostile Senate
4. Legislation that is delayed that the public wants passed ASAP (ie. abolition of Workchoices and AWA’s).
5. A fractured and divided opposition.
6. Spiralling interest rates that show no sign of reversing and the government having a ministerial weakness in Wayne Swan as Treasurer.
Now will the coalition hold their nerve and delay the passing of Gillard’s legislation? If the government steams ahead and decides to force a Senate vote it will be blocked the first time. But a second time? Possibly, especially if the ALP does not negotiate or amend the bill. It all depends on the timing of the first vote and the 3 month wait for a second vote. If the second vote is before June 30 the government will have a trigger. If after June 30 then Fielding and Xenophon might save the day. Might!
The opposition face a choice between public humiliation or an unwanted snap election. One foot each side of the barbed wire fence. Gillard in particular is applying the blow torch mercilessly with the intention of crashing through. She is one hard case who takes no prisoners. An election appears irresistable to me.
November 2008 is a distinct possibility, announced on the Monday after the AFL Grand Final. The governement is itching for a vote, especially in a honeymoon period with the benefits of incumbency. Joint sitting in December. Juicy odds!
can I be assured Shanahan will not claim ‘narrowing’ for the LCP before 2011
or will he just cut & paste his 2007 articles
Wait no longer Ron, the seeds are being sown as we speak.
“The news was a little better for the coalition on a two-party preferred basis, as support inched up for the opposition and slipped slightly for the government.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23235803-12377,00.html
The Australian’s “Breaking News” Story.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23237176-26103,00.html
A goer, Sceptic.
Fielding esp, as a dunce and Xenophon as a pro Work Choice fan, according to his utterances, with a little tinkering, may sink the first legislation.
Leaves the electoral anger wide open.
Steve,
“Snap”, I would’ve called it polishing a turd for the Libs
Sceptic,
1 thing i do know is Rudd deliberately sabotaged any chance of a senate majority in the week prior to the election. The 2nd ACT spot was up for grabs until he recklessly and deliberately(and for no reason)went on his “slasher” rhetoric.
I’ve always thought he did this for 1 of 2 reasons. i’m just not sure which one.
1) he wants a do nothing,unhelpful senate for his first term
2) he has been planning a DD on w/choices all along.
or Harry , the numbers men made a shocking miscalculation ?
Seems the Liberals only chance now is in the Gold Coast City Council elections where they are fielding an”A” and a “B” team against sitting independent Mayor Ron Clark. Nominations for the Queensland council elections for March 15 close Wednesday this week. As usual the Lawyers are in for a picnic.
http://tools.goldcoast.com.au/yoursay/comment_all.php?article_id=7858
Bye.
Steve, is Horatio a goner? So soon? He’s clearly not up to the job, but does it matter at the moment? Rudd is going to be supreme for quite a long time to come, regardless of the OL..
Harry , the numbers miscalulation delivered a DLP into the vic upper house and FF into the Senate 9both decisions based on beating the Greens for the lat spot)
After 3 misses , have they learned
Crikey,
I thought Xenophon was anti-Workchoices. Maybe I’m wrong.
But this parliament will not last 2 years, let alone 3. Blocked IR and electoral legislation will make that a certainty.
Expect an announcement from Rudd in about June about the government’s plan to introduce a plebiscite on the Republic if re-elected. Within 12 months this will be followed by a Referendum.
Won’t that frazzle the factions in the Liberal Party. The reactionary monarchists will get all the air time and the Liberals will look divided and out of touch with aspirational voters. I don’t think Sophie Mirabella, Wilson Tuckey and Tony Abbott appeal to most people.
added bonus Ron lol
of course they will never again make these “mistakes” that hurt the Greens progress.
to be sure
blindoptimist , would Malcolm want the position yet ?
Election 08? Haven’t they banned blood sports?
Harry,
JWH’s loss proved one thing. Senate majorities are poisoned chalices.
Easier to blame the Senate for failed policies than a government with a double majority. The last government that lost their Senate majority (in 1981) also lost the subsequent election in 1983.
I reckon a DD election is a very attractive option and Rudd considered this.
History is a good guide.
One thing that really resonated in that 4 Corners program was the supreme gutlessness of the Liberal front bench. They all got together, all agreed Howard had to go, then (by the sounds of it) most of them were too chicken to tell him to his face and the ones that did put it in such wussy, soft terms that Howard got the wrong message and thought they didn’t really want him out. Result: destruction.
Can you imagine any other political party where every single significant senior minister wanted to boot out the leader and yet none of them had the guts to follow through?
Utterly pathetic.
60 Blindoptimist, for all practical purposes this is the end. No matter how long he holds out there is no recovery from this sort of widespread rejection. It is exactly the reverse of what we saw when Rudd took over as leader. Nelson can graft away all he likes but even a quadrupling of this figure which would be a Herculean performance still leaves him in the wilderness and the pack will demand results.
He was ‘wait and see’, often said he wanted to protect small businesses but also wanted to take the sharp edges off.
He would be crazy to take it, Ron. There are many bad days ahead for the Libs – a lot of resignations/ bye-elections, a lot of policy traumas. He should be prepared to be patient and put in time outside parliament with the great unwashed. There are not many good things about opposition, but the chance to get to meet real people is one of them. He should make the most of this. The Leadership can wait.
Nelson from a purely personal point of view would be better off getting out now, letting some high energy manic like Abbott bear the brunt of the hard work and stand against Turnbull when it really counts.
Patrick #69
If you’re right then it’s all over red rover.
Election this year. No doubt!
That would be sweet. Unlike the rest of them on the ABC tonight he still had that pro-Howard manic glint in his eye. It would be a beautiful thing to see him go to a DD election still touting WorkChoices and other failed policies and get crushed like a bug, clearing the way for small-l liberal reform of the Liberal Party.
Our leader may be Mr 9% but at least the Bulletin won’t run a headline with Mr 9% why does Nelson bother lol!
Also 57-43 = bullbutter…
Also may i remind you of Rooster Swan…
To have a Treasurer who could not answer this basic economic question is really really sad!
“Given the RBA’s stated intention to tighten monetary policy to slow economic activity in order to lower inflationary pressures, what does the Treasurer regard as Australia’s current Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment, expressed as a percentage?”
Swan………………………still waiting Rooster!
Also the Minister for Ageing was caught out reading out a press release in Question Time.
What did i tell you the Rudd Government are bunch of amateurs…the PPM is stupid to report on atm, Rudd’s been the leader for more than a year Nelson’s been a leader for a couple of months after the Tories lost office…who cares!
May i also add that why on earth would Turnbull want to take the leadership now if its so bad, Julie Bishop would be the obvious choice if Nelson gets dumped after a year…couldn’t do any worse having a woman as our leader why Julie would have an approval rating in the 30s at least for PPM. Still i think Nelson is doing a good job especially his Sorry speech.
I agree, Steve. Horatio has no hope…but it’s hard to see how the Libs would benefit by dumping him…
Swan ‘clueless’ about NAIRU: Turnbull
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23233865-2702,00.html
Hows it feel to have made a dunce your Treasurer Laborites? How sad indeed at least Deputy Dawg could answer complex questions in Parliament unlike the Rooster!
73 The theory has always been that if what you’re doing isn’t working try something different. More of the same will just produce more of the same results and I can’t imagine successful business people buying this situation even in the short term. When they see the front page of the Australian tomorrow, the business community will be appalled at the outcome expressed by Newspoll. Phones will be running hot.
75 The one certainty, Blindoptimist is that they gain nothing by keeping him.
67
Patrick Bateman
I have to agree, they were so utterly spineless, and like rabbits in the headlights, were paralysed.
What also struck me was the way Howard knew he was gone, but instead of standing aside to let them get on with it, he clutched the wheel even tighter and steered them onto the rocks.
What an awful little man.
Thanks Howard, you really buggered them right royal.
“Still i think Nelson is doing a good job especially his Sorry speech.”
yep, when the public spontaneously turns away from you, then you just know you’re doing a good job! LOL
74 [Still i think Nelson is doing a good job especially his Sorry speech.]
I thought his apology for his sorry speech was the highlight that helped produce the 9% figure. Great work,indeed.
“The news was a little better for the coalition on a two-party preferred basis, as support inched up for the opposition and slipped slightly for the government.”
Rudd’s in trouble now. The dreaded narowing has started.
Some things never change: the Oz is still the Liberal rag, Glen.
Pesonally, I think NAIRU is a troublesome concept. It is predicated on a fairly static view of economic activity. Of course, the economy is not static. And NAIRU basically posits a fixed relationship between unemployment and inflation. The existence of such a relationship is uncertain at best. I think you can explain inflation in terms of aggregate demand and you can explain unemployment in terms of labour market function and behaviour.
Turnbull is making a lot out of a doubtful concept…
Here comes the Shamaham.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/dennisshanahan/index.php/theaustralian/comments/memo_wayne_stay_out_of_cupboards
83
it is rather humerous that a blogger at bludger knows what NAIRU is but the Treasurer apparently doesnt though lol
another bad day for the rooster
85
HarryH
By all accounts Costello didn’t know much about it either, but he was dopey enough to hang around for a decade waiting to be given something nobody wanted to give him.
Swan may yet learn to fake it as well as Cossie, at least he’s not so patently full of himself.
{the PPM is stupid to report on atm, Rudd’s been the leader for more than a year Nelson’s been a leader for a couple of months after the Tories lost office…who cares! }
Glen, wasn’t the PPM figure one of your important markers towards a Howard victory last year.
Strangely enough, after two months in the job as Opposition Leader, didn’t Rudd have a higher PPM level than Mr Howard. In fact, I distinctly remember Mr Rudd having a higher PPM than Howard from the first Newspoll after he became leader right up to the election.
The Business community will take one hell of a lot of wooing to part with cash in support of Mr 9% Nelson. I think they are royally stuffed at present and it will take an enormous amount of spin by yourself and your regular Conservative supporters on this site to put even a smidgen of optimism towards a Liberal resurgence in the next half dozen years or so with this bunch of incompetents running the show.
86
Kirribilli Removals Says:
February 19th, 2008 at 12:53 am
85
HarryH
{By all accounts Costello didn’t know much about it either,}
Not just Costello. For all Glen’s bagging of Swann and praising the Shadow Treasurer’s amazing economic abilities, it appears that Turnbull doesnt have a clue either and nor do most experts in the field.
http://news.smh.com.au/mps-left-guessing-on-economic-theory/20080218-1ssz.html
{However, Mr Turnbull did not offer what level he thought NAIRU was now.
Commonwealth Bank economist Martin Arnold also was hesitant to put a figure on it.
“It’s a difficult concept to put an arbitrary number on,” he said.
“While people have put numbers on it in the past, it’s always been a bit of a moving beast” }
Patrick, with respect you have a warped view of the situation.
1. The MacLachlan affair was ruinous for Costello’s prospective transition to Leader
2. Hockey was right, “knifing the PM” seconds from the election would have destroyed the Coalition.
Now, I’m fairly certain that many would be happy to see the destruction of the Coalition, but meanwhile back in reality, the circumstances are rather different.
Well Harry, maybe the Treasurer has better things to do with his time than me…I’d like to think so!
Shamaham on Newspoll.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23237263-601,00.html
i agree with Hockey that knifing Howard was not an option.
they would have been decimated.
no-one knew this more than Howard. The selfish little bastard cared for no-one but himself…..as always.
this does not excuse the cabinets gutlessness though. they should have demanded en masse that Howard resign and put on an amicable face. thats if you believe that moving Howard would help them though.
they,along with everyone else, knew that without Howard,even though Howardism was now dead, they were a rabble…..as proof now shows.
GP, the Liberal Parliamentiary Party failed in its primary role – to serve as a kind of standing electoral college and to foster, elect, support and if necessary change the leadership. Having failed in its duty to itself and the public, the public were only to happy too remove a good number of them.
Through no fault of my own, I happen to know a few Liberal politicians. They are buffoons, but this is not their worst failing. Their main crime is to treat the public like we are the fools.
Hockey’s comment re howard seemed the damning of all:
John HAD said he’d leave the Leadership if it was in the intersts of the Party
but he changed the ‘formula’
ie. howard was prepared to resign , knowing the LCP would los ewith him as Leader
BUT PROVIDED the Cabinet resolved formally that he must go…..
“to ensure people do not think I am a quitter’
so in the end it was Howard thinking of Howard , not the LCP’s interests ?
No 93
I’ll take that with a grain of salt.
The extended interview of Peter Costello on the ABC 4 Corners website is particularly instructive. Rudd pitched himself as a younger Liberal – and Costello concluded that if the party did not take the opportunity to modernise itself, then the electorate would do it for them. The 2007 result speaks for itself.
Ron, they all failed to think of their party – Howard, the Cabinet, the rest of the party room. They were thinking of themselves, I suppose. Of how things would look and how difficult it was to summon the courage to change leaders. They all lacked the fortitude and they still do!
The biggest fear I had leading up to September last year was that the Libs would ditch Howard and run with Costello.
It was clear that Rudd had Howard’s measure and the polls reinforced that view with consistently high PPM figures.
Costello would have been able to give the Libs a bounce and new direction and would have prompted a total restructure of the Labor campaign strategy.
By quickly ratifying Kyoto, gutting workchoices and demonstrating a more inclusive and less domineering approach than Howard, the Libs would have had a much better chance than they had under Howard.
Costello would have changed the dynamics and gained substantial media interest which would have derailed the Labor strategy focusing on Howard.
It was more than a risky move for the Libs. It was the only avenue open to them with some chance of success but they were so wedded to Howard’s aura of invincibility and electoral ability, (which in many cases relied more on luck and fortuitous timing of events) that they were too stupid and too gutless to take the chance when it was offered to them on a plate.
For this, the country is truly grateful.
I’m another who’s with Hoe Jockey on the knifing issue. As I see it, Howard has to shoulder a lot, probably the majority, of the blame. He was trying to have it both ways – if he was going to be ‘blasted out’, he was going to make it damn clear that it was on his terms – point being that it was all about the aftermath. If the Libs had pulled a miracle win out of the bag with Costello at the helm, then all would be forgotten; if they lost, as was almost certain, then blame could be placed at the feet of those who drove him out; the polls said he was still their best chance of victory after all. I can see the case for calling the Cabinet spineless, but in the harsh light of political pragmatism I don’t really agree. If I was in their position, my view would probably have been – you’ve made your bed, mister, now lie in it.
Do not doubt that JWH didn’t have all this worked out. Cunning, very cunning. But unbelievably selfish. Wait, on second thoughts – make that entirely believably selfish.
GP, Costello had the good sense to see what was happening and the lack of spine necessary to do anything about it. What should we make of such a person? That he is unfit to lead? That he is weak? That he is just another feeble could-a-been?
No 99
Mate get a grip. It’s always about some Keating-esque notion about “spine” and “guts” with you people.
I tend to agree with Pathological Logic on this.
Keatingesque? I think you miss the point. The public want to know that their political leaders can stand up for themselves. Afterall, if an aspiring leader won’t risk something to rise to the top, if they won’t speak up for themselves at least, how can they be relied on to speak up for the country? Costello proved he was unwilling to risk anything at all. Vanity, all vanity and complaint.
1. He never had the numbers.
2. Howard said it so succinctly: disunity is death.
Unity was death.
Heaven forfend that this be construed as standing up for Costello, but I do tend to think that by the time the way was clear for him to challenge (at APEC) and he knew he had the numbers, the leadership was more trouble than it was worth.
Disunity is death? Well Howard would say that, wouldn’t he. He was the beneficiary of unity. In their unity they perished anyway. What was required was action and what the delivered was excuses. Good riddance to the whole slovenly lot.
No 103
Death to a much lesser degree. I personally never thought Costello could win. The polling showed it, his parliamentary colleagues opposed him and thus any “courageous” challenge to “knife” Howard would have been futile and an electoral disaster.
Again, all this noise about courage and conviction to dispose of Howard is simply a cynical ploy by the Left, who ultimately wanted to see the total destruction of the Coalition.
Well GP, we’ll never know if Costello could have won. The certainty was that Howard would lose. Even a blind blogger like me could see it coming. But the Liberals generally and even Costello himself preferred to let Howard carry the can in the end. Talk about a bunch of lemmings.
If Costello had challenged in 2006, before it was too late, the changeover could have been conducted in an orderly fashion, without unseemly, panic-driven haste.
By the time of APEC, this was no longer a possibility, notwithstanding Costello’s status as invertebrate.
Too many Libs bought the mythology surrounding Howard, including the little man himself. He was neither a much-loved leader, nor a great statesman, and still less a ‘master politician’. It is to the ALP’s everlasting shame that they were too ineffectual to defeat him earlier.
Generic Person, could not the same thing, mutatis mutandi, be said of the right in respect of Rudd’s “inexperience” and concocted “associations” with Burke? Protesting to much is becoming one of your hallmarks!
It was all a question of timing. If Downer was correct in his assessment, Howard would have resigned on his own volition had the MacLachlan affair not occurred. In the extended Downer interview on the 4 corners website, he argues that what changed Howard’s strides was the overwhelming party support in the aftermath of the MacLachlan revelation that he should continue as leader.
By September 2007, it would have been seen as an act of desperation on the part of the LNP to switch leaders, and also an act of cowardice on Howard’s part if he resigned. He’d rather have lost than whimped before the fight. And to some extent, you’d have to agree that the pages of history would not be kind on an act of cowardice of that magnitude.
THR
very well summed up
No 109
I’ve already said thrice that the LNP should move on from Burke given the release of emails indicating no mischief on the part of the PM.
Yes, and I agree with you, but the fact remains that it is still the current chosen weapon of the right, ineffective as it may be, and it is just as cynical a ploy as to brand Costello a coward for failing to challenge Howard when all hope of electoral victory was gone by the time of APEC and he didn’t have the numbers anyway.
The same could not be said of 1996 however
I said in an earlier post that you had significant skills in imperceptively changing the line of an argument when it suited, and my admiration of your ability to do so certainly hasn’t been diminished by your most recent efforts.
Costello had his only chance. He did not take it. It would not have happened in the earlier Howard years of electoral success.
Costello’s chance was Tampa etc. He did not move. To the backbench. Showed no backbone, no principle. He had every opportunity to denounce or show that he did not back the Howard agenda. He had every chance, if he had the guts to move away from the Howard necklace, to back the Apology, to decry the Pacific Solution, to forward his own view over Iraq ….must I go on?
Costello did not take the chance. Did not move to the backbench, make a stand, ask that others stand for him. Show that he could lead.
Not that his judgment was wrong. What is not admitted is that he did not have the conviction. Who, then, would follow?
I wonder to this day what Howard had, apart from ruthlessness. Not principle.The Liberals in any event did not seek principled behaviour. Winning is what they sought.
Maybe a new leader could have turned their attitude. It was never Costello.
He never tried.
No 114
There you go again, back to your old courage and conviction argument.
The fact of the matter is that showing conviction does not mean spitting the dummy and heading to the back bench and thus destabilising the party. Doing that doesn’t show leadership, it demonstrates disloyalty, disunity and obnoxiousness so perfectly exuded by Paul Keating. The ALP supporters seemingly have no concept of loyalty and its vast importance, especially in this context.
I think part of the issue is that the Government has been in for scarcely three months and aside from the squabbles over the abolition of WorkChoices, the Opposition is starved for tact in terms of deriving credible criticisms of the PM and the Government.
Rudd has essentially suffocated the Opposition with seemingly endless bipartisan causes that Burke was practically the only thing left to pursue. Naturally, I disagree with that position because there is frankly nothing mischievous about the PM’s dealings with Burke. But, I can understand why Nelson has chosen to keep attacking Rudd about it with as much hyperbole as possible.
Also, on the subject of the latest Newspoll, my original thoughts about Nelson’s viability have been confirmed. I am a supporter of Turnbull and see him as the very likely successor to Nelson within the next 18 months.
Loyalty?
Crikey Whitey, do not mistake Peter Costello for anyone with social scruples, or for anything other than a political paranha awaiting its next feed. See his brother Tim if you are looking for compassion and respect for human dignity.
Costello may have made errors of judgment over the last 11 years but they were just that, coupled with bad timing. Costello was every bit as ruthless as Howard and did not lack the courage and acceptance of consequences that goes with ruthless ambition. But he was a pragmatist on self preservation issues.
It would have been pointless, and in my view an act of self immolation, for him to challenge openly for the Liberal leadership after Howard won Government. He had no numbers and no hope and he knew it. Second position was always going to be better than the back bench.
No 119
Hear, hear Fulvio.
I do not mistake Peter Costello, Fulvio.
I say again, no principles. No qualities of leadership. No truths one could follow, particularly because none were demonstrated.
Costello’s only hope was ever to demonstrate beliefs and principles, along the lines of his admirable brother.
For Peter,clearly impossible.
Interesting, really. Happens in my own family. Why? Don’t know.
Anyone may think I have a day off. Not.
Good morning, all.
I think that’s an unfair assessment. It’s difficult to contemplate or judge a person’s leadership qualities when they aren’t in a position of leadership, especially in an environment in which there was the overwhelming authority and domineering presence of John Howard.
i think Peter really deigned himself above having to fight for the leadership.
i think he really thought that the Liberal Party were lucky to have the Great Man in their Party and it was up to them to come to their senses and GIVE him the job.
Ego is a wonderfully destructive thing…and between Howard and Costello it was in ample enough supply to leave the Liberal Party and the country in a distant second place.
The Costello problem is either he believed and backed JWH policies or he didn’t. If he did then, as the 2nd in charge, he deserves to shoulder some of the responsibility for the electoral defeat. He was taken around on a lead by John as the nations next PM for the duration of the campaign.
If he didn’t and he believed that the party was placing itself in a losing position, then surely he owed it to the party and himself to present an alternative vision of where Australia would head under his stewardship He failed to do that, probably because he lacked courage or couldn’t be bothered with the hard work this entailed. Which is basically lacking leadership when it was really required of him.
Everything I ever needed to know about Peter Costello, I learned tonight when I saw his smug sleight-of-hand over the Maclachlan note. Even now, he couldn’t bring himself to admit that he’d given Ian the green light to drop Howie in the poo. Even now, he wants people to think that he was a million miles away, that his fingerprints won’t be found at the scene, that it’s all someone else’s doing – that he behaved properly and that he can’t be held responsible if other people feel outrage at his ill-treatment – and act accordingly.
What a schmuck.
The Liberal party is still trying to be one nation and is still slipping down the distribution curve. Idiots.
“1. He [Costello] never had the numbers.”
Costello wasn’t
foremanPM material. If he was he would have worked to get the numbers, which is something he apparently never did. Cossie was more a prince waiting for the king to topple off the throne, only when it finally happened he discovered that the people much preferred a ‘republic’ run by a new PM.I’d give Cossie credit for recognising his limitations if they weren’t driven by a combination of laziness and ‘born to rule’ arrogance. Not that he was the odd one out in the sloth department. Howard’s mob were far and away the most indolent govrnment we’ve ever had.
VoterBoy of Over the Water @ 126 – It wasn’t just that he gave McLachlan to okay to blab to Milne. Milne was/is Costello’s tame journo so he almost certainly got Milne to badger McLachlan for the story in the first place.
Howard – like Kennett before him – made sure that he got rid of or disempowered anyone who wasn’t a sycophant or was a threat.
He never saw Costello as a real threat, which is why he tolerated his existence.
He knew that Abbott, Nelson, Downer, et al were NOT leadership material, which is why he rewarded them so lavishly.
I think he saw Turnbull as all talk, no substance – so accelerated him up the ladder to expose this. (Turnbull, sitting on the backbench and making grave statements he didn’t have to substantiate would be a bigger threat than Turnbull crashing and burning).
When he was first elected as PM, my spouse and I were watching one of the first Question Time. Spouse pointed to the green leather blotter sitting on the table in front of JWH and said, “That’s all Howard wants. He just wants to be PM. He doesn’t actually want to do anything.”
In the end, that was all Howard was still about – he just wanted to be PM.
Nelson is your classic Liberal Leader. The better people get to know him the lower the numbers fall. The trouble is that once the nine percent level is reached how much better do we really want to know him?
Here’s something to completely confound the situation in Higgins.
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/02/higgins-handicap-tim-costello-rumours.html
I thought that the most wierd thing about the four corners program was Hockey’s claim that his collegues, even after introducing workchoices did not realise that workers could be worse off. What were these clowns doing while the legislation was being debated?
Nelson’s 9% is too low from Labor’s point of view. Perhaps Labor needs to let him score some points against them to give him a bit of a boost. The last thing they want is for Nelson to lose his job.
On 4C, I agree with Costello that Howard would have stayed on regardless of the “McLachlan Affair”. Howard strung Costello along year after year, giving him just enough hope that he wouldn’t have to wait too much longer to become PM, but then stretch it out a bit longer. I don’t think Howard would ever have stepped aside while he thought he could win.
most telling point of 4 corners
Costello
“we had 50 opinion polls straight where we did not win one,not one!”
back in mar 07 was when this all started boiling and i said on ozpolitics something was afoot
Nb i never said it was sweety -just locho’ getting (he thought) payback
and they say labor warriors have long memories
re costellofalots suitability:
Generic Person Says:
February 18th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
No 560
Yes, but the party failed to mount a candidate to challenge him. There were murmurs about a “smooth transition” to Costello, but neither Costello or anyone else were effective in accruing party support.
Costello himself has revealed even prior to tonight’s documentary that he didn’t have the numbers for a challenge.
gusface Says:
February 18th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
560
it only takes two functioning ones
It’s official. Brendon Nelson is the new Mr 9%.
to zedder on the last post
I am very clear on the political compass mate (or woman),..Ron Paul is far libertarian..of course there are many positions that you can take before you get to that…..GP is such a person, needs to be extreme and mutually exclusive to one side…that is like a socialist/communist. Given that the mainstream left have come into social democracy there are not many people who are now one dimensional to the left…….the dominant ideology is right wing fundamentalism – their socialism if you like. You never see this critique from the right……..now its there turn to come right in and learn to take from a broad ideological base…
You seemed to have missed my point, or maybe I did not express it correctly
see http://www.politicalcompass.org
John Quiggin has a good explanation of the game Hockey was playing on 4 corners
“In terms of policy, the most startling revelation was Joe Hockey’s claim that members of the Cabinet voted for WorkChoices, including the abolition of the “no disadvantage” test, and were then shocked (or pretended to be) that people were disadvantaged. This news ought surely to sink resistance to Labor’s reforms, and may indeed have been intended to achieve this purpose.”
http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2008/02/18/howard-haters/
There was a time when people used to rally behind successful leaders.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/19/2166223.htm
Crikey Whitey, way back on the other page you licked your chops at a Julia versus Julie match up. Well she sure gave her a slap in the parliament the other day about explaining some complex math to someone who couldn’t add up! LOL
I’m pretty sure Ms Gillard is foreman (ie PM) material, and the way she handles even the most experienced journos is a revelation. Never gets flustered, never loses her poise, stays on message, answers the question, kneecaps the opposition, and all with a smile.
She’s a class act compared with Ms Bishop, who is only in the job of Nelson’s fluffer until the Admiral sinks into single digits. Oh, yeah, that’s right, he’s arrived there already! LOL
Abandon ship! Abandon Brendon!
138
steve
I think Hockey does not want to be the Opposition spokesdrone for keeping WorkChoices on life-support.
He is so over it, having been the loyal front row forward who got thumped over and over, he just wants the whole WC thing to disappear down a drain and never be mentioned again.
You can’t help but feel sorry for him, eh?
141 [You can’t help but feel sorry for him, eh?]
Eh? It’s like watching an implosion that we had to have. Great entertainment but sorry, no I think more like eager anticipation of a much needed change. It was all so wilfully self inflicted insanity this workchoices debacle.
What was most interesting about the 4 corners show was the level of arrogance and denial still consuming the libs. They cant bring themselves to consider issues of integrity (AWB. WMD, children overboard, Haneef, interest rate promises etc etc) as part of the reason for the defeat, as well as the obvious one- Kevin Rudd.
On the newspoll results, it’s interesting to compare responses about the apology to the Stolen Generations with the Galaxy poll of 10 Feb (prior to the apology), which showed that 55% of Australians then agreed with the decision to say sorry, as against 69% who ’somewhat support’ (25%) or ’strongly support’ (44%) the apology now that it’s taken place (Newspoll).
This shows the power of decisive and principled action — also, I guess, the capacity of the media to show people what the apology meant to those Indigenous people seated in the chamber and weeping as Rudd spoke — and the influence of public opinion as people watched in their workplaces and talked about the Stolen Generations and their families. So much for JWH’s mantra (always selectively used) that ‘the Australian people’ didn’t want (an apology, a republic, etc etc). He made us out to be so much worse than we are.
Perhaps, in the next question time, Mr Swan could give Mr Turnbull some references to where economic definitions can be found. Alternatively, he could point out that Mr Turnbull, having studied only law and arts (like his predecessor), could get himself an economics degree. Not that he himself has one.
The Westpoll figures were before the apology and would also reflect the enlightened views of people like our local Liberal member, Kalgoorlie MHR Barry Haase. The Broome Advertiser vox pop “street talk” had 5 out of 6 in favour. Perhaps not a representative sample but encouraging anyway.
Has anyone noticed that the conservative cheer squad makes an appearance at the same time. Is this a co incidence? Maybe they sit in a back room plotting things.
145
ViggoP
Or perhaps Mr Swan could ask Mr Turnbull how doling out millions of public dollars to his mate for making rain with scientifically spurrious ‘technology’ is prudent fiscal policy?
That should get a laugh or two.
147 [Maybe they sit in a back room plotting things]
More likely they get the talking points sent from the Liberal Party at the same time.
I think Swannie’s best response would be along these lines:
“No ordinary Australian cares whether I understand economic terminology. All they care is that I work to keep interest rates, inflation and unemployment rates low. You guys can get yourselves in a knot about terminology; I’m going to concentrate on delivering.”
No, they get the current talking points sent at the same time from headquarters.
Hours of bloging by you lot on Peter Costello and not a SINGLE word of his
11 years of achievements….not even one. Shame
You have completely reduced Peter Costello’s career to whether he had the arrogance (waiting for the numbers to come) or whether he had the ticker
and that sums up what political history will only record
Zoom I really don’t think it would matter who was Treasurer, the same tactics would be used against them. Your response is the one Swan will use for sure.
“The conservative cheer squad” will just have to deal with the tyranny of an enlightened majority in favour of things they don’t like.
Won’t shut them up, of course. But, it will be nice to see them frothing and fuming furiously as they come to realise their mendacious influence on the decision makers has waned. Lost their dreams and now they lose their minds.
I find also that there are strong similarities in the style of language used by GP and ESJ. And they seem to work in tandem. Three Faces of Eve? Sybil?
152 Are you sure there was a record, Ron? I’m still waiting for the budget bounce.
Howard giving a speech pretending he can govern a country
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/howard-talks-the-talk-in-career-speech-therapy/2008/02/18/1203190740184.html
What exactly did you do for economic reform and infrastructure in Australia JWH?
Steve , the one clear point Peter did make last night was his distancing from responsibility for publication of the Maclachlan note.
Peter acknowledges Ian spoke to him in the 48 hours prior to publication but Peter wants us to believe he is above that sort of skullduggery
Keating in 1996 summed up the duo early on:
Costello….’no ticker’
Howard ….’a ticker without cloth’ (substance)
Keating’s reference to ‘no cloth’ was not suggesting Howard had no idealology
but rather it did not include human decency
Rudd’s had an awfully long honeymoon hasn’t he – ever since he was elected leader of the Federal ALP Parliamentary Party!! It doesn’t bode well for the Coalition that he’s doing best he can to honour election promises, and remove cynicism from Australian politics.
asanque
Isn’t Nigeria the scam capital of the world? Just the man for the job.
KR141. You have more compassion than I for Hockey in his former carnation as minister for WC’s. To be the stand up man for that crap means you deserve all the bitch slapping that comes with that lofty position. To top it off his a lawyer too so my sweet mercy’s are less forth coming.
Maybe I had a dream but the voters of North Sydney had decided to keep him. Yes but what a likable GRUB.
The tactics of the Queensland Liberal senators this year leave a lot to be desired, too.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22998984-3102,00.html
Aussieguru01
To top it off he’s a lawyer too so my sweet mercy’s are less forth coming
a recent “Morgan” Poll of the 4 least liked were:
4th Lawyers
3rd Journo’s
2nd Pollies
ist Blogers banned to the Blogosphere solitary confinement ‘moderation’ zone
as a regular occupant of the last option , it is nice to be loved
I think some are a little harsh on Costello, for he himself made a valid point that many MP’s only knew Howard as leader.
I reckon had Costello replaced Howard early 2006 he may well have won the 2007 Election, remembering before PM Rudd became leader many ALP supports felt he had no chance of winning an Election, I recall many mocked him as a nerd and a geek.
Ron . To my potential embarrassment I was not aware of being banned from this blogosphere as yet & if so I ask for William Bowe for moderation instruction if necessary. Like any one I could have missed it or may be cautioned. Over to you William.
#158: “Peter acknowledges Ian spoke to him in the 48 hours prior to publication but Peter wants us to believe he is above that sort of skullduggery”
Sure, Costello would have liked to be PM, not because he had a burning passion to do something useful for the country but because the position was there and it would have been another step up from where he was.
But some time ago, probably early in the 2000s, I reckon that Costello’s desire to be PM took a backseat to his desire for revenge on Howard. Costello felt cheated and used by Howard – it was written all over his face in the 4 corners programme last night – so his MAIN objective was not so much to gain the PMship himself but to destabilise Howard.
So, through McLachlan, he made the public aware of the fact that Howard dishonoured their agreement. He began speaking to journalists about Howard’s ineffectiveness as PM – remember the Brisseldon revelations around the middle of last year? And he probably even had a hand somewhere in the leaking of the Crosby/Textor polling that showed that Howard was viewed as mean, tricky, and a liar by the public.
Costello had no intention of fighting for the PMship because he didn’t want it nearly as much as he wanted to make Howard’s life just that much harder.
Then, the most degrading thing of all for Costello, another example of how Howard used him to try to get re-elected as PM once more, was the day when he and Howard were interviewed on Today Tonight, where Costello was forced to convince everyone that he was best buddies with Howard.
So, the final act of revenge came after the election when he refused the leadership just at the time that it was about to be handed to him. The message sent to Howard was, “See I didn’t really give that much of a rats about the leadership. I just wanted to make sure you couldn’t have it anymore, you lying b*****d.”
Having a comment go in moderation is a completely different thing from being banned, which I only do on special occasions. Comments go into moderation if they include particular words, which are chosen to a) keep spam off the site, and b) reduce the chances of me being party to a breach of Section 7 or Section 8 of the Victorian Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001. The overwhelming majority of the comments caught up by this are innocent on both counts. They are usually cleared through soon enough.
RBA says growth must slow.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/business/reserve-bank-says-growth-must-slow/2008/02/19/1203190788341.html
Brendan and Julie have been rolled by the party room on opposing anti-WC legislation, according to the World Today.
Disunity is what?
Thank you William. Ron. Now we are both aware of the protocols that are in place here I am absolved of any perceived breach. Ron if you like to be more direct in your reply to any of my postings I welcome it but I would respect you more if you don’t cast aspersions upon me like a school boy having a tease. We are grown ups here so pull your head in!
PS – care to me us what is your political leaning? I bet you know where I stand
!!
Mr.9% simply unelectable
),
the man divorced twice, married thrice, piercing his ears (and nipples
stupid and liar (as he repeatedly self-confessed)…
It would be a shame if Australia (ever) elect Mr.9% as prime minister.
Don’t know why the Libs favour him over Turnbul? Let me guess: the Howard legacy/factor? Howard may be gone but his poisons certainly left in the Liberal party.
I believe the song whose artist I do not know said it best, “The only way is up, baby; For you and me, baby; The only way is up; For you and me!” (1990’s)
Nelson is the man! He will bring the Coalition closer to the middle ground. Turnbull should not go for leader until closer to the election in 2010 if the Liberal’s narrow the gap or 2013.
Brendan “Fonzeralla” Nelson used to be a biker, leather jacket, white t-shirt ear ring the lot.
May have been going for the Wild Ones image, but perhaps Mr 9% is really aiming for the two percenters target of the true rebel bikers image.
Here’s comes the Claytons backflip with lots of pikers.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23239365-601,00.html
Does any Liberal member actually know the rate of NAIRU, Peter Dutton though it was 5.1%, Steve Ciobo 4 – 4.5%, why ask this question if your own frontbench is confused. I think the biggest problem for Nelson is after Turnbull there isn’t much batting down the order. And Dutton thought he could be deputy-leader?
Glen
Is this poll churned bull-butter?
#164
“ist: Blogers banned to the Blogosphere solitary confinement ‘moderation’ zone
as a regular occupant of the last option , it is nice to be loved.”
The comment was actually referring to me as a regular occupant !
following fun in check we blogers had the other night re the moderation zone
and that Lawyers rated above us blogers placed in the ‘moderation’ zone.
Aussieguru01 , if I’m going to criticise you I won’t hestitate to do so directly.
On thi occasion you took offence at something that was not even directed at you and this was caused by MY lack of conciseness.
’sorry’ unqualifed for your upset
as to my politics….ESC has me a a ’socialist’ tending to ‘communist’
and we know what an atute ‘generic’ person ESC is
176
Stephen Hill
I’m more impressed that the government knows more about NAURU than NAIRU
Apology accepted Ron. Thats very BIG of you.
ViggoP (#170), I thought TWT reported that Brendan and Julie were rolled by shadow cabinet last night, though isn’t this something that would be put to the party room?
Where can we get “Brendan09″ bumper stickers?
183 – Classic
“Here’s comes the Claytons backflip with lots of pikers.”
So let me get this straight. Firstly, the opposition were opposed to the death of WorkChoices, then Nelson later announced that WorkChoices was dead. A few weeks later, he resurrected it. And now, WorkChoices has been declared dead a second time.
Flip-flop. They have no idea what they are doing.
But I guess the latest Newspoll was probably a clincher this time. Wouldn’t want to oppose Labor’s new workplace bills and risk a double dissolution when you are the most unpopular opposition leader in Newspoll’s history.
Would Costello take on the leadership if Howard handed it to him in the “last minuite” on September 2007, when Howard called/anounced the election date?
As someone put it, Howard crashed the car and then gave Costello the key! There was no point to hand-over at that late stage, but on 4Corners program, Costello sounded as if he would happy to take over two months out from the election.
Ron. As you evaded a direct answer to my question to your political persuasion can I kindly ask to speak for yourself as to that matter, Be BRAVE.
noocat
rudd is talking about ‘flip flop flap’ on workchoices
“curently we are up to flap”
Julia gillard has just released 2006 stats re workchoices
(you know the one “that never existed’ -hockey)
absoulte dynamite-hope the MSM has the ‘mechanisms’ to publish this
Keating said ” I’ll do you slowly ”
The Coalitions tactics are clever politics , accept but amend
which gives them a policy base to defend thats not 100% pro AWA’s
Whereas the ALP I thought always were tacticly too loose in doing w/c in 2 waves…the second of which the Coalition will now be able to defend with
“some” ‘political credibility
Wayne Swan still under pressure, this time on the level of state debt:
“Sometimes I’ll have the details on hand and sometimes I won’t.”
ESJ – Harking back for a moment to your dummy spit the other day about who the ALP candidate was in Billy McMahon’s seat of Lowe in 1972, I was driven to explore that bit of political trivia.
Have discovered it was Major Peter Young, who went on after his loss to be an independent consultant on defence matters and publish a defence journal, but was not President of the NSW Industrial Court as you thought. There is a Justice Peter Young who is Chief Judge of the Equity Division of the NSW Supreme Court, but that’s a different chap.
You appear to have exploded erroneously.
Major Young’s picture here:
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/hwtports/0/0/3/doc/hp003613.shtml
That is a great disappointment re the AWAs, does this mean no longer referred to a committee/ senate inquiry
Nelson and Bishop should hold firm, then we can have a few months of the inquiry, maybe even hearings, the report from the lib members of the inquiry and the report from the labor members.
The libs need this inquiry to hear first hand for themselves about AWAs and Work Choices, seeing as how Hockey said that they were clueless that anyone was adversely affected.
tanner got a nice quip in that will probably end up being the next election slogan
“you cant trust the liberals with the public’s money”
Well done Joe Hockey, I knew he was different to the prefects. The man has a heart after all.
Interesting Question Time today.
Observations on ministers/others:
- Swan is inconsistent at best – apart from anything else, he fails to realise that, when under pressure, it’s often best to be brief.
- Tanner is good.
- Gillard is very good and I suspect the Opposition will have to come up with a different way to deal with her.
- Rudd gave one of the most boring answers ever – five minutes of my life I will never get back.
- Mr Speaker is going to have his work cut out for him. But I thought he was ok today, except when he started giggling (yes I know some of the stuff is quite funny, but even so).
- Turnbull is clearly the best of the Opposition.
- No love lost between Julie and Julia!
Overall, exactly as expected.
Kennett was right Re 4C, John Howard needed sterner characters like Rick Astley in his corner.
http://www.youtube.com/results?orig_query=I+give+up&search_query=rick+astley
Re: Swan, if Rudd is all about performing Ministers and getting rid of Duds how long can the Rooster stay in if he doesn’t even know the definition of NAIRU or know what the level of current State debt is! This is sad that your average blogger would know these facts and the Treasurer of the country doesn’t what a joke!
This quote sums up how badly he has performed since becoming Treasurer on even basic economic questions…
“Sometimes I’ll have the details on hand and sometimes I won’t.”
What a shame the Tories folded on AWAs there was nothing wrong with pre-2005 AWAs but the stigma of post-2005 AWAs has unfortunately made them untenable what a shame
Glen, IMO it’s not so bad that he doesn’t know the figure, but the way he expressed his limited knowledge of figures in general so starkly in a nice little grab for the TV news after several days of bad performances.
Howard needed guys like Rick Astley in his corner ,
but presumably not the dancer.
j/v #192
up to your post proving ESJ wrong for the first time , he’d had a perfect record,
assume you posted your blog with great sadness
God Tanner is better than Swan. Everyone else on Labor’s side is outperforming their counterparts except for Swan.
True aspidistra but one has to feel worried when you have a Treasurer who’s performances conjure up visions of an elephant on ice sakes…hardly the picture needed for the person given the responsibility to manage the Australian economy.
One does have to admire the well polished parliamentary performances of Deputy Dawg when compared to the nervous ranks of Swan…”I’ll tell you what i’ll never do”…yeah Mr Swan you’ll never answer the question!
Once workchoices goes out the back door, Gillard will dump education+workplace relations and be given the Treasurership with Swan or Shorten or Combet picking up the crumbs.
Aspidistra at 134, the disarrayed tories will keep Brendon flying only as a flag of convenience.
The leadership is Petit Mal’s on a platter whenever he wants it. However, it is in Mal’s best long-term interests to allow the bitter after-taste of neoconservative defeat to fester and linger a little longer. In a year or so, the deep denial mentioned by Andrew at 143 will have been work-shopped through and they’ll present the leadership to Mal as a fait accompli, like eunuchs on bended knees with heads bowed offering aloft their nuts in a transparent jar. (propriety precludes gender inclusiveness in this simile)
Despite Minchin’s ie.Brendon’s kingmaker’s blatherings about it on 4 Corners, the Super-Hornet purchase order is going to sting Brendon badly as official enquiries unfold. The Member for Wentwoth will be aware of this.
The exposed ideological ugliness of the Coalition far right (Minchin, Abbott, Mirrabella, Robb, Tuckey and Co.) will render them unelectable until the rising damp of the nascent Neo-Wets develops enough back-pressure to permanently flush the bastards beyond the Party’s Executive S-bend.
Like Kirri sez, Stud will then become Brendon The Abandoned. Today, Nine Percent Nelson aka Nelson En-Passant couldn’t avoid a Work Choices LCP check.
The bloke’s nothing but a bloody doormat and a bench-warmer.
What a loser!
MB at 165, chuffed that you’ve re-badged with your new decal.
On Nelson – 9% is undoubtedly a dreadful figure that the ALP will delight in using to pillory him. But as he is cast in the large shadow of a very popular and brand-spanking-new PM it’s probably to be expected. Horatio’s overall satisfaction rating was 40%. So two questions:
How does this 40% SR compare with former Opposition Leaders?
Which figure is the better indicator of the public’s view of Nelson – the 9% PPM or the 40% SR?
One would expect someone with a PPM rating of 9% to have a satisfaction rating of less than 40% FG that’s what is puzzling?
Glen don’t get too excited about the supposed demise of Swan. He will very quickly get some advisors that can have the detail at his fingertips.
Steve figures like State debt should be known to Swan of by heart he’s the Treasurer!
I hope Swan stays on because he’s Labor’s weak link and the Tories can smash Labor’s economic credibility with a rookie like Swan as Treasurer id be more scared if Gillard or Tanner was facing Mr Turnbull.
Steve if Swan continues to act like a scared fool by not facing the dispatch box and looking on a 90degree angle and cant understand basic economic concepts or know of basic economic figures he’s not doing his job!
I always thought Tanner would have made a better Treasurer than Swan. I think Rudd probably did too – indicated somewhat by his initial refusal to guarantee Swan’s post-election job in the run up to the election – but factional and other pressures allowed Swan to take the reins.
It would be great if Rudd did replace Swan with Tanner. I know it’s early days and probably very unfair for Swan, given that he could potentially grow into the role with time, but I do think that Tanner would command much more respect from the public, and this is needed in a job like Treasurer, and even more so for Labor, given the (unfair and misguided) expectations about poor economic management.
Howard’s advice to Nigeria:
(1) Embrace economic reform – exhibit A: WorkChoices;
(2) More foreign investment – establish a wheat trading agency in Iraq;
(3) Develop infrastructure – start with ports and rail, then move on to skills training.
His reward? Forty large and a double kiss from an important Frenchman.
Ron @ 200 I was unaware of ESJ’s unblemished record, but Robert Bollard deserved to know after the right royal going over he got because of ESJ’s faulty memory.
I presume there will be a small sorry ceremony with smoke performed for Robert by ESJ on YouTube shortly.
207 Just take a deep breathe and get used to it Glen, Swan’s there for a year or two yet. Don’t get too excited it’s early days. I’m sure his advisors will quickly get the message to have the figures he needs at his finger tips.
Does Swan seriously look any more nervous and bewildered by it all than Nelson does? I doubt we’ll see any hint of changes before mid-term at least.
Did Latham ever get a PPM rating after the last election? I don’t think he lasted long enough, did he?
Nelson will probably last the year, but not much longer than that. I doubt Rudd will drop below 65% approval in the next 12 months, what with a nice honeymoon for the first six months, followed by a new senate to break in, followed by the Olympics (and photo ops) followed by footy finals followed by the end of the year when most political minds will be watching the US election with at least half an eye. It helps his cause that there are no state elections either.
Really, you couldn’t ask for a better platform to do what you want: two senates, a demoralised opposition, and the above factors. Of course, rising rates and threatening recessions won’t help, but you can’t have it all.
Steve then you wont be seeing Swans face in QT he’ll be too busy reading out Treasury briefs to look up at the camera. Steve if we had a dunce like that in our Party i’d want him gone in a New York minute!
Hey Glen your Uncie Howie didn’t like facing the opposition in QT, used to turn his chair all the way around so his back was to them (coward) so what does that make him?
Swanny may not be a star debater (that was Kev’s gig Swanny was the rugby captain) but who cares, how many people watch QT? Not many I’d say. Swanny will run rings around do nothing Cossie on matters of the economy and the results will speak louder than words. Could even become the world’s second greatest treasurer after JPK!
vera (Sir) Howie rarely did that but Howard could deliver an answer facing the Opposition something the Rooster cant do. By your definition then Rudd was a coward for never facing the front when a Tory Minister was answering a Question.
Swan doesnt have to be a star debater he just needs to know the facts something he’s shown incapable of doing thus far. Then Swan must have taken too many knocks to the head because if someone who is the Treasurer doesnt know what the level of State debt is and doesnt know its impact on inflation is just sad.
The factions of Labor are costing them whatever economic credibility they think they have…Swan will have about as much chance of being the second greatest Treasurer behind Costello than he has as being leader of the ALP none existent!
j/v touche , I’ll await the smoke signals bearingt the invitation
we do wish to be “inclusive”
an apt term for horatio ‘the convenience leader” EC ,
is there a 7/11 hint to come ?
Glen Costello was and always will be the great pretender. Oh how sad to see him hiding on the back bench.. now there’s someone who’s afraid to face up to anyone!
William, after reading Mr. Shanahan’s sycophantic suck-up in your thread-head update, there is reason to believe that Denny Boy is in no danger of becoming “The Shill That Died Of Shame”. None whatsoever.
Mind you, when you’re punchin’ a keyboard for Citizen Rupert, such life-changing, Road to Damascus turn-arounds come with the territory.
The Boss likes Kevvy. Hey Presto! So does The Shillster.
Just another Miracle of Modern Stenography, I guess.
I log in occasionally. Had a bit to say on the leadup to the election. Only reading nowadays. But I have been moved to action.
Why? Glen is so tiring. Talk about clutching at straws. Continued and willful ignorance of the coalition’s manifest failings, and exaggerating the slightest problems w the government (that’s the ALP, Glen). And he doesn’t even speak very good German.
As for Generic Person (he’s not GP, I am), even worse. Can’t make sense of him, most of the time. What is it about the conservative mindset that divorces them from reality. Cognitive dissonance, that’s the phrase isn’t it?
Harry H says
“i agree with Hockey that knifing Howard was not an option.
they would have been decimated.”
Harry. They lost about twenty five out of around ninety. I don’t know what the term is but I reckon they would have preferred decimation…
Oh Glen you’re an absolute buffoon if you think a good Treasurer is one who has memorised a whole bunch of facts and figures. And as for the NAIRU debacle – well, Turbull needs to explain exactly why this figure is pertinent. It’s clear the Reserve Bank doesn’t give it much credence. And further, he’s opened himself up to pop-quizzes on obscure economic theories wherever he goes.
Knowing what’s important is what counts. Such as the overnight money market rate. Unca Howie knew all about that, didn’t he??
Honestly, the entire Labor frontbench “could get it out” in parliament and there’s nothing at all Nine-Percent-Nelson could do about it.
Very clever of course of Mr Tumbril to expose the ignorance of Mr Swine on the topic of discredited Friedmanite theories in front of the knitting circle on the opposition benches who were mightily impressed even though none of them had heard of it either.
I would guess that most of the few who heard of this would not give a flying.
geepee,
Have you – or others – ever stopped to think that maybe there are a bunch of other conservatives floating about who don’t bother commenting because or generalised comments like that? Because they know anything they post will just be launched into?
I used to comment on political blogs all the time. I don’t any more, because those to the left of me (and I’m actually close to the bloody centre, at least I am socially. Economically not so much) tirelessly state the same thing and polarise those who disagree with them. It is rare I find a person willing to generally debate the pros and cons of ideas, those who are happy to concede points to find common ground. And, hard as this may be to believe when you read posts, 47% of the country thought those conservatives had the right idea just a few months ago.
So what type of poster do you all get? Those who don’t give a flying f** what you think and will continue to spout the same stuff which they know just pisses you off. Want proof? Every comment of Glen’s spouts at a minimum two, three, generally identical, outraged responses from people. It has done for the past 6-8 months. And yet still people still do it.
Ah well, I’m going to peddle off back to the US threads, where (for a change) I am supporting the same chap everyone else is. Nice to be on a winning team for a change, less stress altogether.
No 219
Gerard Henderson wrote a fairly balanced piece on the subject of “contrarian” views in the press, highlighting the obvious dishonesty and hypocrisy of certain journalists.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/gerard-henderson/the-culture-war-crimes-tribunal/2008/02/18/1203190739383.html
On NAIRU
Turnbull asks the Treasurer for “Australia’s current Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment, expressed as a percentage?” and the Liberal frontbenches offer 4%, 5.1% and the old 7% chestnut when quizzed about it themselves. This is just one of those tactical questions with zero merit, the Libs are just being ingenuous as NAIRU is an estimation, as the OECD notes:
“The measurment of NAIRU is also controversial. By its nature, it is non-observable and depends upon a wide range of institutional and economic factors. It follows that even if one accepts this concept, it can only be estimated with uncertainty. Moreoever, it may well vary over time.”
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/46/18464874.pdf
Turnbull’s question is the equivalent of asking how many grains of sand are on Bondi beach, its a Friedman concept that was used in the 70s that the Reserve Bank doesn’t use in determining monetary policy. The hypocrisy that this is being asked by a government who at the last election campaigned on the promise to reach a 3% unemployment target (ignoring NAIRU) in their “Go for Growth (and Inflation)” slogan is staggering, and this from a party lead at the time by the stagflation treasurer who if he had monitored his own performance could have completed a Phd on how to accelerate inflation, just shows the lengths to which the Libs are willing to go to distort the truth.
Maybe some of the Liberal frontbenchers need some training in economics, particular in the connection between micro and macroeconomics. Or do they just take whatever the Chamber of Commerce says as holy writ: – “Workchoices good, public education waste of money, skills shortage non-existent”.
Also I’d add to the best of my knowledge all the states have AAA ratings in regards to debt, while it may offer an easy target for an attack advertisment, it has minimal impact on the economy. I assure you if their was a debt problem with state governments who have been pretty conservative in their borrowings, we would be hearing from S&P and other rating agencies a lot more often.
Bloody hell, there goes the 9% after today’s white flag, hoisted in panic by Admiral Horatio Hornet and his fluffer. The nine percent were only waiting around to see Work Choices resurrected as Coalition policy, but now that Hornet and the best mate have been thrown overboard on this one, it’s bye bye from them.
Well, just maybe 1% might stick around, but since they’re all probably suffering dementia and think young Horatio is Sir Robert, (as they remember him, svelte and suave), he probably can’t rely on them still even being around to vote in the next election.
Surprising what a bit of alliteration can do for a decimated party straight after an election were many barely hung onto their seats while many others were swept away in the tide.
Yep, ‘double dissolution’ sure focused their tiny little minds on their backsides quick smart, and come a choice of ‘loyalty’ to their ‘leaders’, or keeping their backsides firmly planted on the public seats provided and well padded, they wisely chose the latter.
Who said the Coalition backbenchers aren’t smart?
No 220
I should wonder the same about the left when I’m subjected to such insufferable arrogance.
Some smart-alleck journalist should ask Turnbull a few arcane concepts from some old Economic Phds, figures buried in ABS reports and budgets and see whether he tries to fake an answer.
Lol, I would love to see a treasurers debate between Swan and Turnbull.
No 229
Stephen, your feigned indignation is hardly worth the effort. It cannot disguise the rather, shall I say, cursory economic knowledge of Mr Swan.
226
Stephen Hill
Good post.
Last time I looked, when some clown (probably starting with the letter “G”) came on and started hyperventillating about the Victorian government’s debt levels, I checked to find that it was historically low and the borrowings were for large infrastructure assets for which debt is the ideal instrument.
Oh, and as you said, they had AAA credit rating.
Malcontent was playing mindgames and being all Mr Lawyer with the smartypants question, and I hope it comes back to bite him on the bum! (As no doubt it will).
Brisbane City Council candidates named.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/rowell-on-top–for-now-at-least/2008/02/19/1203190803471.html
Kirribilli Removalist, Ihave been perplexed and intrigued by references in two of your recent posts to a “fluffer”. Pray tell, what is a fluffer?
Generic Person
Gerard Henderson gravely refers to Catherine Deveny as a journalist who “in the aftermath of the election, raised a deeply philosophical point: namely, ‘Who are we going to hate now?’”
Two points: (1) Catherine Deveny is a satirist whose satire appears in a broadsheet newspaper; and (2) Like P. P. McGuinness, Paul Kelly, Janet Albrechtsen and others, Henderson appears to have a shockingly undeveloped sense of irony (and humour, for that matter). In my opinion, this is due to the simple fact that he doesn’t get out much (e.g. Stalin is dead, the Cuban missile crisis is over, the cold war has ended).
Given a choice between a treasurer you didn’t know the archaic 1970s term NAIRU, which has no relevance to his job, and The Great Pretender who according to Hockey wasn’t even aware that SerfChoices could make workers worse off, I’ll take the first one every time.
Especially, when we know The Great Pretender also couldn’t have been aware of NAIRU given the election promise to reduce unemployment to 3%, which according to the theory would be economic suicide.
It is truly sad when an opposition is so bereft of ideas that it’s reduced to childish stunts in QT. It’s not as if they served any purpose, they couldn’t even keep The Great Pretender awake today!
No 235
Are you trying to mount the fragile argument that satire is impotent as an expression of political philosophy?
I hope not. You can’t defend the indefensible.
I know 2 unrelated sets of political lobbyists [for want of a better term] who have had extensive dealings with both Mr. Swan and Mr. Tanner and both groups say unequivocally that they vastly prefer the former to the latter on the basis of their respective understanding of a range of issues and personal skills.
237 [You can’t defend the indefensible]
Very funny GP coming from someone whose sole purpose as far as I can see is to do exactly that.
No 239
Mr Steve, not at all.
I have proffered criticism on elements of the Liberal party such as the overzealous regulation that WorkChoices imposed on the market, the needless pursual of the Burke affair and other elements of policy, but most of you continue to resort to old adages of extreme fascism when interacting with what I’ve said.
Fred your friends know their stuff. Swan is skilled in economics but like many will improve in their ‘communication’
Inner Westie , not sure Generic saw the subtle irony of your commnet
Generic Person
No. Just making the point that people who fail to get out much are typically less sensitive to the subtleties of expression mediated by satire.
240 [but most of you continue to resort to old adages of extreme fascism when interacting with what I’ve said.]
Poll Bludgers move in mysterious ways. Can you tell me why they’d react like that.
236
MayoFeral Says:
February 19th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Given a choice between a treasurer you didn’t know the archaic 1970s term NAIRU, which has no relevance to his job, and The Great Pretender who according to Hockey wasn’t even aware that SerfChoices could make workers worse off, I’ll take the first one every time.
I thought Hockey demonstrated a willingness to find out what the problem was with w/c , then try & sell it to people who did not understand.
He also had the courage (separated confirmed) to contact Howard directly & personally tell him he should quit
Despite my jest of 6 imigo’s but there were 5, as I thought Hockey has character
No 243
They are troubled by the fact that others hold different world views and philosophies.
No 242
Even accepting that Henderson misinterpreted a piece of satire (which I believe is a furphy), there is nowhere to hide for the other journalists that he mentions.
245 [They are troubled by the fact that others hold different world views and philosophies.]
In what way? I thought there were as many different world views and philosophies as there were people.
Ron if Swan is so skilled in economics how come he doesnt know what the level of State debt is and its impact on inflation????
When it he couldn’t remember the figures he ranted about it being ok to go heavily into debt as long as you spend it on infrastructure and then kept repeating ‘ill tell you what ill never do’ over and over and over like a broken record.
Swan also started answering a question and then half way through he tried to answer Malcolm’s Question that he couldn’t answer yesterday. Clearly Swan is the weak link and when there is blood in the water the sharks will get Swan the Tories wont hold up, they know they can make him look stupid easily and considering Swans pathetic performances to date one must wonder when the ever consistent parliamentary performer Gillard will take over.
No 248
I have to say Glen, that is saddening that Costello isn’t leader in this instance. He would have, more so than Turnbull, made Swan look like an absolute fool and given Gillard are good run for her money.
I see nothing in Swan’s performance so far that gives me any confidence in his ability, if he speaks to the Banks like he answers Questions no wonder several banks felt relaxed about upping rates without a corresponding rate rise from the RBA.
Peter Costello showed great loyality to Howard only to be slighted, guess what he may leave the Parlianment robbing the Liberal Party of one of it’s few assists, this type of thing happens every day in the work force.
I don’t see Costello as weak sure he should have better handled the McLachlan saga maby he should have asked for a party room vote but you don’t become deptuy Leader of either major party if you are weak.
Costello not becoming Liberal leader is no one’s lost except for the Liberal Party of Australia, if Costello was so horrible why was he popular in the seat of Higgins, might have something to do with being a good MP.
Howard is the only person responsible for the current state of the Liberal Party.
Generic Person
A furphy?
So Deveny was not being satirical when, in the same article, she “declared that, on the morning after the (election) night before, she ‘woke and felt like a woman in love … buzzy and post-coital’”?
Perhaps now is a good time for all of us to reflect upon exactly how much we get out.
No 248
One would be hardpressed to derive appreciation of diverse opinion in the present environment.
I wonder which of the following Political leaders was more popular in their seats.
Howard (Bennenlong)
Hawke (Wills)
Costello (Higgins)
Keating (Blaxland)
I suspect it would go Costello, Keating, Hawke, Howard
perhaps you should read the posts a bit slower
John Howard has begun his autobiography entitled, ” Delusions of Grandeur”. Each chapter entitled ” I.”
True GP but who can blame Costello for not wanting the job at the present time.
More wasted money from the Liberals
I’d like to see all the money wasted on the Haneef case and the compensation he will undoubtedly receive come straight from Andrews or the Liberal party’s pockets.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/andrews-spent-200k-on-media-monitoring/2008/02/19/1203190804063.html
235
Fulvio Sammut
Ahem, can I sugget that you read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer
…and the main reference is the one to which the ship’s mate would seem to be best suited.
However, there are alternate job descriptions, so can I suggest that anyone who wants to can pick one, and in twenty words or less, describe why Julie B should be awarded it (with reference to her particular talents):
Fluffing is a hairdressing and makeup term. Fluffers were originally those who touched up an actresses hair and makeup during a shoot.
One who prepares a house for sale, employing cosmetic skills, such as hedge pruning, or psychological tactics, such as baking bread while the house is being shown.
On a TV show set or in a comedy club setting, “fluffer” can refer to a warm-up act, whose task it is to engage the audience prior to the arrival of the main attraction or in between takes.
Fluffing is also a slang term used in acting. An actor who misreads his/her lines but continues on in character is said to have “fluffed” their lines. This term is primarily used in the United Kingdom.
In call centers, fluffing can be used to describe call avoidance, often by offering incomplete solutions or referring the caller to another provider.
“Fluffing” can also be used to describe the artificial inflation of another’s ego for personal gain and/or insincere promotion of ideals or policies.
“Fluffing” is also a euphemism used to refer to farting.
“Fluffer” can refer to a staff officer who won’t let an issue or program die as they’ve been instructed to.
“Fluffers” or “Fluffies” has been used as a name for workers on the London Underground who would clean hair, dirt and dust from the tunnels at night when no tube trains run.[1] The work was often done by hand by female workers.[2]
…plenty to choose from, but I think her main job was to, ah, ’steel’ her leader for the charge!
What is it about economists? Do we need them? They specialize in saying that X was caused by Y. They have less success in proving that if we do Y then X follows. If more of them got that right then there wouldn’t be so many of them around. Unlike other professionals, take bus drivers, doctors and ladies of the night, they don’t get sued or lose their jobs if they aren’t any good at it. Bit like politicians really.
258 asanque, senate estimates committees are sitting at pesent so in the next week or two plenty of stories about waste and porkbarreling will be about.
Righto Ms GP or whoever you are. You are knicked for excessive use of the words hypocrisy and arrogance. $10 fine paid directly to William of Bowe for all future transgressions.
Don’t whimper it will help you expand your vocabulary.
KR is on the same penalty for snide. Glen had to take a loan out against his parent’s house to cover his over use of hubris.
William is just sitting back curling his moustache in anticipation.
Don’t say you weren’t warned.
Kirribilli!!!!
Kirribilli Removals i must say you really have sunk to an all time low to insult Julie Bishop for no reason whatsoever other than to ‘fluff’ your own ego up. For gods sake shouldn’t you be happy that she caved in today on workchoices when we could of blocked it but noooooo you’ll call Julie childish names.
The one thing i am glad about it that we Tories do not insult people in the manner that you consistently do to those on our side of politics.
Julie Bishop is as dumb as dogsh-t. We’ve already established that.
Let’s move on to debatable topics.
John Ryan thankyou for just proving my point…it never ceases to amaze me at the crude way many left wingers on this blog conduct themselves.
Get over it Glen.
You want to hang around here dragging your sorry tail between your legs and getting clobbered on a daily basis and then complain about some tacky joke?
Guess who the tacky joke is on, Glen?
245
Ron @ 245 – Hockey is one of the few Libs I respect. Unfortunately, the qualities I admire are not ones that the current Coalition have any time for ATM.
265
John Ryan
Now, look here JR, you can’t say that about Jules…
..ah, er, you already have!
Alright then, let’s move on to the next political kamikazee of the Liberal Party.
(Loud voice, off stage) N-E-X-T!
KR you are a fool why should i leave, 47% of people wanted Howard last year so why should it just be left wingers on Pollbludger get over yourself KR really!
Still to politics KR for the sake of us all.
KR,
If you really are a fluffer as Glen accuses, that may be something else he is dragging around between his legs.
No 264
Of course, the delicious irony in all of the noise about backflipping is that the same Poll Bludgers were criticising the LNP for failing to adhere to an obvious “mandate” to abolish AWAs. Now that they do, they’re labelled all assortments of vitriol from the left.
And, for the benefit of Greensborough Growler, that’s another episode of arrogance and hypocrisy. Prove me wrong before you come wielding $10 fines.
Costello,according to Troeth treated his fellow members “with disdain”(Four corners) . He was rewarded with little party room support,as for any future performances on the floor he will to do it without the support of the army of treasury advisers.
Glen, where did I say you should leave?
Crikey, don’t do that, it would just be too dull agreeing with ourselves that JB is, as has been pointed out, as dumb as doggy do!
Nah, you make it funny. Being so wrong on a regular basis and so comic to boot is a hard act.
Gotta hand it to you, you’ve found your calling keeping us in stitches.
GP,
Clearly you cannot laugh at yourself, so we will have to do it for you.
Cheers.
Oh, yeah, Glen, at least the Labor Party’s Deputy is a woman with brains, style and wit, and is going somewhere.
Your little poodle just fluffed her lines for everyone to see.
Love it!
I see you’re still writing bollocks, Glen. Face reality and stop clutching at straws. Who gives a stuff if Swan hasn’t got obscure, meaningless economic stats at his fingertips. Its not called the Dismal Science for nothing. And I guess the Libs are the Dismal Party. Wait until Allbull is asked a whole lot of terms during his next interview. For example – how about the usefulness of the Solow growth model? Or, perhaps he would like to discuss the contents of this paper on Economic Monotonicity of Price Index Formulas
“The present paper discusses, amends, and formalizes Kohli’s (2005) notion of economic monotonicity. It relates this notion to axiomatic index theory. It is shown that the notion of strict monotonicity as defined in axiomatic index theory is somewhat different from Kohli’s notion of economic monotonicity. However, the axiomatic approach provides useful suggestions for defining economic monotonicity in a precise manner. The present paper attempts to provide such a definition.”(http://www.ipeer.ca/papers/Auer,Nov.04,RevisedCommentSSHRC46.pdf)
When Treasury can get a forecast correct I might believe they know what they are doing. What’s the point of knowing all the economic terms in the world if you can’t even get a budget outcome correct? Costello wasn’t an economist’s arsehole, let alone an economist. Treasurers act on advice, so Swan’s job is to ensure that he is getting correct advice and that he is asking them the right questions to direct economic staretegy. He doesn’t need to know every detail of every formula. Does Telstra’s Mexican bandit know the current ratio of people to phone exchanges in Aus? Does the BHP boss know how much iron ore is going into the ships each day in Port Hedland? Do you know how many Liberals iit takes to ruin a country? Not many.
No 273
Kirribilli Removals, given your fleeting disregard for substantive argument, I do believe you are hardly qualified on the subject of labelling others “dumb”. Really, if that is the extent of your argumentative skill, perhaps the joke is on you.
Another wasted $2.4 million.
And that’s just one of 247 cases.
Why aren’t the Liberals directly accountable for their incompetency?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rau-compo-deal-ends-long-fight/2008/02/19/1203190813749.html
PJKFP @ 276,
Swan was poor today (and, I gather, other days) in Parliament. To extend your analogy, a CEO with a similar performance at a results announcement would get caned by the analysts.
He seems like a decent guy and it’s way too early to pronounce death on his career as Treasurer. But let’s not kid ourselves that his efforts so far have been any better than “below average”.
No 276
It is also not unreasonable to expect the Treasurer, arguably one of the most powerful people in Government, to have a commanding knowledge of economic principles and theories.
To continually come up numb when asked basic questions, as Swan does, is just absurd. It is embarrassing at an international level as well that beyond all the rhetoric of the “war on inflation”, scratch the surface and Wayne Swan reveals he really does know little.
It only took one ALP member to ruin Australia. Paul Keating.
Yes, he should never have lost that election….
277
Generic Person
And considering your fleeting disregard for satire, maybe you need a break too.
But let’s just say that JB has fluffed her first big assignment by coming out full throttle for WC and AWA’s and then having her own party tell her where to go.
Substantive enough for you GP, or do you just join the conga line of suckholes and let them lead you over whatever politcal cliff they happen to find?
Fulvio,
Boom! Boom!
MayoFeral , perhaps Hockey is not in the biggest LCP faction as his abilities & character suggest he was the only one out of 4 corners who impressed
As for your interest in debt Glen perhap you could look at the official Treasury Stats on Australia’s trade deficit debt.
Nov. 1996 $187 billion vs. Nov $543 billion not withstanding a net surplus inflation & dollar adjusted in the trems of trade of a $415 billion for 1996 to 2007. “please explain”
We use to use the term “fluffer ” to describe the sow who was used to excite the male pig prior to carrying out his duties on the breeding sows.
Wow, you lads are all getting bitchy tonight! Must be the heat! Well it is bloody hot in Adelaide here. No stockings or Karaoke for Alex tonight. Nick Minchin having sleepless nights worrying about Double Dissolutions and the complete demise of the Conservatives in the Senate!!!!!
Apart from anything else Swan needs coaching on the specifics of handling QT.
Kay Hull asks him “What is the State debt? How much effect does State debt have on inflationary pressures?”
He didn’t know the first part so (eventually after 2-3 minutes of stuffing around) he said “I’ll gladly forward the information to the member” – why not just get up and say that, followed by 2-3 sentences about how (in his view) the level of State debt has been exacerbated by a failure to hava co-ordinated infrastructure policy across the nation. The point about all the States having good credit ratings would have made a good sign-off.
Instead he went on for 5 minutes using grandiose phrases like “What I’ll never do …” (and by the way, doesn’t that phrase from a new minister warm the hearts of an Opposition).
Honestly, the government (rightly or wrongly) is enjoying a honeymoon, if he can’t flay the Opposition in Parliament now, how he will get on later? Being Treasurer is rarely as easy (politically) as it is at the moment.
No 281
LOL Fulvio. Thanks for the comic relief.
Howard was a master at dealing with awkward questions: be brief, (often) be dismissive, and get off.
The Costello model of piling on the pain only works for some people (Keating obviously, and Gillard as well by the look of things). Swan isn’t going to be one of those people.
asanque @ 278,
They lost the election.
278
asanque -
Speaking of Waste…
Thanks alot Chris Evans for giving Rau more than 1 million dollars, i thought the ALP was trying to reel in wasteful spending?
Its disappointing to see the bias and loading in Newspoll’s polling on the apology.
The possible answers for respondants were limited to
Support (a strong affirmative) – 44%
somewhat support (a weak affirmative)—25%
not support (a strong negative).—26%
Basically, a weak negative response was not available to respondants. As a result both “somewhat support” and “not support’ responses are overstated.
I think the real number on this issue will be much closer to 50/50 than Newspoll would indicate
No 287
Agreed, Dyno.
280
Generic Person Says: “It only took one ALP member to ruin Australia. Paul Keating”
281
Fulvio Sammut Says:Yes, he should never have lost that election….
Boom Boom!
snap!
Classified, I refer your dense mind to post no. 286.
thanks GP… i refer yours too 293
Libs have not yet fully finished with Work Choices.
The senate inquiry is still on, so although they do not the oppose abolition of Work Choices they will delay such abolition with a dragged out inquiry. Still more time for labor to bring out the Howard govt statistics on Work Choices which were kept hidden.
Ms Bishop said the opposition still supported a Senate inquiry into the legislation.
“I can’t pre-empt the Senate committee, but given what the coalition position is in the house, you can have an expectation that there will be a similar position in the Senate, subject to the Senate inquiry.”
http://news.theage.com.au/opposition-forced-into-backflip-on-awas/20080219-1sz4.html
So we have had flip, flop, flap, looks like flep will be next after the senate inquiry, or maybe even before once they realise how contradictory it is to have an inquiry.
AND KR.
That post on JB was very offensive and sexist, libs posters were berated for making similar remarks about Maxine and Natasha, fair enough to go on lack of skills and talent but that post was beyond the pale.
Hear hear.
I note reports that Fidel Castro is quitting, after about 50 years in power. I suspect Raul Castro was Costello’s role model.
287
Dyno Says:
February 19th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Howard was a master at dealing with awkward questions: be brief, (often) be dismissive, and get off.
and what opposition questions did he actually answer ?
except his frienship for peter
Dear Fidel, Fingers up to the Americans for over 50 years! God Bless him in his retirement!
Putting aside the fascinating politics of the Howard’s End. More importantly, which has been missed, it shows how badly the Howard regime had governed Australia during 2006 and 2007. It was the lost years. The Howard regime had take their eyes off inflation, climate change and fiscal responsibility. Instead, they indulged in their own palace intrigues, navel gazing and committing hara-kiri with Workchoice.
I hope Rudd will not repeat Howard’s End. Rudd should serve two terms and a bit, and hand over the PM to Gillard in 2014 or early 2015.
That’s assuming he makes it that long.
#302 – GP – with Mr. 9% and Mr. 70%, do you have to assume?
Yes no doubt those he tortured share your sentiments Brenton.
Jaundiced View
I suggest you check Adam’s archive as to the Labor candidate in Lowe in 1972.
No 303
Every Government has its honeymoons. It would be tremendously naive to suggest that Mr Rudd could retain such a record-high approval rating for a number of years.
In Opposition in an election year, it’s easy to be all things to all people. Not so in Government.
301
The Finnigans
4C sure showed what a bunch of politically inbred and morally deformed creatures they’d become.
But the electorate could see it, even if they still cannot.
To have the coalition backbench roll Horatio and his hairdresser (is that anodyne enough for the satirically challenged?????LOL) the moment they realised that KR could not only threaten with a DD, but actually demolish them with one, is the funniest thing I’ve heard since the RBA put up interest rates last November.
All the posturing and self-mythologising just hit the harsh reality that nobody gives a rat’s for anything they say anymore. They have no power. And Kevin threatened to take them back to the electorate for another stiff rogering.
And they bloodywell knew it.
Howardism is DEAD,forever, but its zombies are yet to find out just how long eternity is.
I don’t think I will be crying any biggies for Castro
305 ESJ Nothing compared to the trail of torture and murder throughout Central and South America that has been an American past-time and hobby.
#307 – KR – right on comrade, now that Castro has retired.
Moral Relativism Brenton.
KR @ 307,
Enjoy it while it lasts!
should Castro be regarded as a true revolutionary Leader un the face of US attempts to kill him
312 ESJ Would love to leave you with some of the Mothers and Grandmothers of the missing in Chile or Argentina! I am sure that they would sort you out nicely! Australian Conservatives, breathing in their refined air!
Um Brenton political murder is the same everywhere. I dont draw a distinction between say Pinochet or Castro – they were both dictators, only one was more succesful.
Finns and Dyno
Today was delicious, pure unadulterated ecstacy for someone like me who loathed (yep, that word! LOL) Howard from the moment he whined some assinine crap about wanting Australia to be ‘relaxed and comfortable’.
And today his progeny, after a few minutes deliberation on their own political mortality, took the great principle of self-preservation by both hands and threw the Hair Apparent and his fluffer overboard.
Bliss.
Pure bliss.
If that’s your definition of bliss you really should try and spend more time with your family.
Hull’s question re state debt was an absolute furphy, the answer is ‘it depends on what the loans are used for’. If they are used to increase productive capacity then they are not inflationary, but in fact the reverse is true. A classic case in point is the recent Queensland spending on water infrasructure, we were facing massive disruption to production due to lack of water, with consequent hikes in prices. I believe that debt funding is the only sensible way to pay for long term assets, ie the amortisation matches the life expectancy of the asset.
And of course the NAIRU question was sheer stupidity and bloody-mindedness, when politicians have meddled so much with the definition of ‘unemployment’ where a few hours work a week qualifies as ‘employed’, such terms become irrelevant. This is why even with the official ‘low unemployment’ figures, we have not seen wage push inflation in this country.
#307 – ESJ – Yes, I believe that they do torture people a lot in Cuba. If I am not wrong it’s at a place called Guantanamo. Nasty regime those Cubans at Guantanamo.
Finnigans, TOUCHE
Is Hulls channeling Bishop? Same clothes, same hair colour…a bit disturbing.
320
Edward StJohn
Seeing your side of politics, all fluffed up and nowhere to go, is a special joy Teddy.
Don’t know if William will allow this, but hours of fun for Poll Bludgers:
1. GO TO THE FOLLOWING SITE : http://www.tatuagemdaboa.com.br
2. TYPE YOUR NAME ON THE 1st LINE.
3. TYPE YOUR LAST PB NEMESIS ON THE 2nd LINE.
(Skip your e.mail address.)
4. Click on vizualizar and watch what happens.
Within the “moderation” Blogosphere there is a special zone for serial offenders ….the solitary confinement zone under Dr Adam Carr Commander.
The Growling perpetrator has already been zoomed there for his salvation
Basil @ 321,
Your point about State debt is well-expressed, even if one might dispute the point to some extent.
What a shame (for him) that Swan didn’t answer it that way, instead of taking five minutes of waffle to say “I don’t know”.
Greeeensborough, You’re a very silly person, with too much time on their hands. Laughed, as it involved Generic Person. You may not want the image that conjures, and certainly GP won’t! Snicker!
I don’t get the opportunity to watch QT, so have no way of forming my own view of his performance. I was under the impression that Rudd wanted to have parliament and QT operate in a more openly accountable way. That, of course, leaves Ministers more exposed, including himself, it should be added. If Swan is performing as poorly in QT as is reported here, wouldn’t it make sense for him to get some coaching from Julia? Perhaps I’m thinking too altruistically? Which is probably really stupid given what I know about the operation of political parties, including the Labor Party.On the other hand, I suspect that most punters wouldn’t know or care how he performs in QT, and that what will resonate more is how people are actually affected by changing economic circumstances personally, and how that story is told.
319 KR,
Yes, yes, enjoy while this phase lasts.
But, to paraphrase something that was said about the Republicans and their (comparatively) quick selection of the only electable candidate (McCain), by ditching WorkChoices and AWAs, the Liberals have shown that they actually do want to win the next election after all.
Not that a win in three years is at all likely, but today’s change of heart was another one of the steps they needed to take towards winning in six, nine or twelve years time.
HSO @ 330,
There was nothing about accountability in the answers today – it was all about the failings of the previous government.
Yes Dyno but does the Labor Party want to win the next election or do they want to keep Swannie?
HSO @ 330,
I don’t think Gillard is the right role model for Swan. Apart from anything else, the Libs will rarely ask her a question, at least until she makes a mess of something. So all she has to deal with is Dorothy Dixers about recycling of WorkChoices promotional material, and the effect of WorkChoices on working families.
Swan is playing in a much harder game, and needs to learn to be briefer under pressure, in my view.
Castro was one of the worst dictators in history, up there with Hitler, Mao, and Stalin he ruined Cuba, isolated them from the rest of the world and surpressed freedom of speech and democracy on that island. Castro’s rule made Batista’s rule look good and thats all that needs to be said.
Also Castro almost brought the world to nuclear war infact he recommended that nuclear weapons be used by the Soviets to defend Cuba and welcomed them being stationed on his Island.
Hopefully he wont be long for this world!
Dyno,
Disagree. Altering the policies etc. is the easy part and just an indicator that they believe that the people got it wrong and that they will inevitably slide back in to power with the same charmers that got them thrown out.
When they have the night of the long knives and sort out who is going to be a part of the Liberal future. That is when I will start to take them seriously.
333 ESJ,
I wouldn’t put the choice quite that starkly but he is looking to be the weakest link at the moment.
237
MayoFeral Says:
February 19th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
{ they couldn’t even keep The Great Pretender awake today!}
I noticed that during QT today. Unfortunately for “Tip”, the camera focused right on him in a close-up and there he was in all his glory.
In the hammock, again, fast asleep.
335
Glen theres only one country guilty of mass murder by nuclear weapons, just wish i could remember who it was
Fidel knows when to step down from the leadership, without overstaying his welcome. I believe he may be fulfilling a secret “Havana Agreement” brokered by Che Guevara in 1963.
Raul is now odds-on to win the next Cuban election, and I understand his backbench is 100 per cent behind him.
“There was nothing about accountability in the answers today – it was all about the failings of the previous government”.
I’m shocked. Did a newly-elected government really act in this way?
Gough @ 339
Your comments are deeply offensive to anyone who understands the end of WWII.
Harry Truman had no political choice but to drop the bombs. If he didn’t and one extra American life was lost. Today he might be seen as being between a rock and a hard place. In 1945, he had NO CHOICE. He was a deeply moral man and perhaps hated to authorise the dropping of the atomic bombs, but he his advice that ending the war would otherwise cost upwards of 100,000 American lives.
Anyone who doesn’t recognise that Truman had no other choice is a foolish historical revisionist.
cardster, japan was trying to seek surrender tems for 12 months before they where liberated in a firery blast
338
Scorpio
That’s the tip of the iceberg for today Scorpio! It’s the icing on the iceberg, the iceberg of public popularity that Admiral Horatio Hornet sailed into, and the other iceberg of frozen with fear backbenchers!
Classic.
The ship is going down and Tip’s asleep in one of the deckchairs, dreaming of what might have been with Capt. Cossie at the helm.
Delicious.
Thank Gough…the US didnt start the Second World War just so you know…
So all the Liberals have to do is present new policy products ? nonsense
To win from opposition needs Government mistakes & an overall framework , non conservative political philosophy & credible strong leadership
Check out tonight’s 7.30 Report on ABC TV, transcript available later apparently.
Peter Cullen, National Water Commissioner [Howard appointee I think] stated that ‘as a matter of urgency’, irrigation entitlements along the river should be cut by 40-50% to prevent the river being totally destroyed and to ensure sustainable supplies for urban and irrigation use in the future..
I only caught the tail end of the show but it seems Cullen wants to put the plight of the basin and the need to make the hard decision to decrease irrigation water usage firmly near the top of the political agenda.
Without checking the details I suspect all the relevant federal electorates along the Murray-Darling Basin would belong to the Coalition and probably similar for state electorates.
So making the hard decision is not likely to directly at least cost the ALP seats, although there could be a national/state fallout. Even then I think awareness is growing in the urban areas that Australia can no longer afford the wasteful and uneconomic level of irrigation we currently have and there have been a few hints that people are starting to become aware of the appalling inefficiencies in general in our irrigation systems and to resent same.
Comment?
glen, that dosent justify testing weapons of mass destruction on a civilian population
336
Greeensborough Growler
Now don’t get too upset GG, but I actually agree with you! LOL
The basic problem with the Coalition is, as Possum so nicely put it, that it’s a coalition of the irreconcilable.
It needs more than long knives, it needs to be drawn and quartered, and the bits thrown to the dogs. If some stump remains viable, and can grow back into a life form with a reason to exist, then so be it. But this lingering creation of Dr Frankenstein’s cannot survive intact, it is finished.
Whacking on a new head, rearraning the bits, is futile. Discarding a policy here and a policy there is a tacky conjuror’s trick, and no one is fooled.
Kill it.
Start again, nothing can keep this transplanted cadaver credible, and certainly no amount of celebrity make-overs.
But watching them try is going to be endless fun! LOL
No 347
If you read the transcript when it becomes available, you’ll also note the previous story before the interview which states that a significant amount of the river’s water flow is used upstream in Cubby Station QLD to irrigate cotton farms.
Banning the farming of water intensive crops like cotton and rice should be at the top of any water agenda.
Glen @335
“Castro almost brought the world to nuclear war”
No, I think you’ll find it was John F. Kennedy who did that.
“infact he recommended that nuclear weapons be used by the Soviets to defend Cuba and welcomed them being stationed on his Island.”
Sounds like a plan if you’re trying to defend your small, improvished country against a nuclear armed, highly aggressive superpower which had already launched one unprovoked attack against you and was threating more.
348
Thank Gough – the object of war is to win and win quickly with as few casualties as possible, Truman had no other choice had he left it any longer the Soviets may have invaded the home islands…if you think the North Koreans were bad how bad would a communist North Japan would be!
351
actualy it was general lemay who authorised the stragegic air commond to fly their bombers into russian airspace so id say thank the russians for their common sense
glen, the russians where our allies at the time
350 [Banning the farming of water intensive crops like cotton and rice should be at the top of any water agenda.]
Oh Dear, GP please extract that oversized foot of yours from your mouth. One of the big Shareholders of Cubby Station has always been your Tory mate and shadow Treasurer of Queensland, Member for Mogill and former Liberal Leader, Bruce Flegg.
GP
There is actually a good argument for continuing to grow rice and cotton.
These are annual crops, which means that if it’s a bad year and water isn’t available, then they simply don’t get planted. If there were enough bad years, they would become completely unviable.
Both rice and cotton demand large amounts of water, but in most years this isn’t a problem (although it might be in the future). Without these crops, we would be importing both of these products from countries with less sensitivity about environmental issues.
Certainly there is more of a case for irrigating rice and cotton then there is for irrigating cattle pasture.
Glen @ 345 –
“Thank Gough…the US didnt start the Second World War just so you know…”
Considering WW2 started as a direct result of WW1, which admittedly the US had little to do with starting, and was helped along by the terms of the Versaille Treaty, which the US was party too – especially on the crippling reparations that Germany was required to pay which contributed much to Hitler’s rise to power – the US was quite not as innocent as you believe.
Yeah, but what about the war before that? Federal politics only on this thread from now on please.
349 KR,
Exactly the sort of stuff people were saying about Labor as recently as three years ago.
Still, I think you are wise to make the most of things while the sun shines – enjoy!
my apologies
Hey leave GP alone, as long as he has the right, I mean correct, approach to improving our water systems he’s a mate of mine.
At least on this issue.
And I’m sure that Flegg, the Nats and the Libs are truly interested in what is best for Australia and not narrow and selfish capitalist gain.
So there.
336 GG,
Well, since the election they’ve seen the virtual exit of Costello and Downer (at least, we think so) and now they’ve effectively repudiated WorkChoices.
Plenty of work left to do, but as I said earlier, they are at least showing some signs of wanting to win the next election.
Hah Allies are you serious, the Soviets signed a Non-Aggression Pact with Nazi Germany, invaded the Baltic countries and half of Poland, and took as POWs British sailors who were delivering surplises to the Russians at Murmansk and you call them our Allies???? On the Eastern Front it was not the Soviets whom i wanted to win.
Think of the trillions of dollars we had to spend on the Cold War, think of what we could of done with the $$…
Ideally we should of rearmed the Whermacht and forced the Soviets out of Eastern Europe if not completely destroy them.
Rudd is having a honeymoon, how long it will last anyone knows, but with interest rate rises on the horizon i think the honeymoon will be over very soon. Are problems coming?
Yep as noted by others Swan is a dud. Problem for Labor is their is very little talent who can replace him.
Is it my imagination or is watching parliament these days like watching paint dry, it has become very boring. Same old formats and same old boring jokes and speeches trying to tell us that we are doing things.
Nelson carrying on about Brian Burke, whoopie do.. who cares? What difference does it make?
A petrol commissioner what next? What a waste of money.
I look forward to the cheaper fuel.
Prediction Nelson will not be leader of the libs at the next election. Unless of course Swan becomes leader of the Labor Party.
No 355
Elements of the National Party are, shall we say, misguided.
I’ll let Glen at 363 through, but definitely no more.
The situation as we now see it serves to underline that what comes up must come down. The Tories were riding high after the 2004 election and looked certain to win the 2007 election and everybody wrote of Labor. But just as Labor were in the depth of despair after the 2001 defeat and they reached there lowest point in 2002 when the Crean/Beasley leadership issue arose they in just 5 years would win back office. The truth is Rudd wont stay popular forever nobody does not if you’ve been in long enough. Simple as it is while the ALP are rulers of Australia there will come a time in several years when this is not the case and it is that knowledge that will make the next several years bearable.
365 [Elements of the National Party are, shall we say, misguided.]
Not only misguided but their silence has been deafening since the Federal Parliament resumed. If those who think that Swan is on the ropes were to consider where has the National Party been for the last fortnight, I’m sure that the conclusion would be reached – they are now an irrelevant rump. Nothing like an electoral thumping and the extraction of pork barreling rights to put the Nationals back into their box.
steve,
You must think Swan has plumbed the depths if you are justifying his performance by reference to the Nationals!
Swan is a lame duck…nuff said!
Dyno, must laugh, Hockey’s statement that half the cabinet did not know that people would be worse of due to workchoices was hysterical. Yep all those lawyers, and educated ministers had no idea, who is he kidding. Sounds to me that they had no idea for ten years.
At present the libs are a rabble, listening to Bishop tonight telling us about the backflip, was pure comedy, yep we will pass Labors’ IR changes in the Reps but it is up to the Senators to decide, Yep on the one hand we support Labor but that is only in House Of Reps but in the Senate who knows? Confused must say i am.
369 Dyno, I do wonder how can professional advisors allow stupid questions go unanswered like that but I’m sure Swan will bounce back .
372
steve
maybe its just hard to predict stupid questions
374 Yes TG but these people are paid good money to get on top of stupid questions an have details available on demand as required.
Taxpayers money at work- 100,000 mouse pads, just hope they were Australian made.
Ron? Ron? Where are you? The level of debates down to your level – we need you!!!
Hi Dyno,
Downer, Costello, Minchin, Vaile, Hockey, Turnbull, J Bishop, Hockey, Abbott,
Up and comers Hunt, Mirrabella, Stone, Rudd, Smith, Pyne………………
That don’t include the deadwood Bailey, Ruddock, Tuckey etc.
How many wannabe leaders do you need.
Who will emerge from this lot as the final leader will take years. I reckon it will be one gigantic “ten green bottle” convention.
Look at today, Hockey and Abbott rolled the leadership team over Work Choices. Now, is that a good sign? How will anyone exert their authority in that morass.
Australians are not mugs. The Libs have years of heartache to go!
mm @ 371,
What the Libs are doing in the Senate is purely insurance for later in my view – if the Labor changes work out badly they say “we proposed amendments but they wouldn’t listen”, if the Labor changes work out well the Libs say we took our 2007 defeat seriously and let the changes through the Senate.
The Libs, as I said earlier, are starting to look to me like a party that have decided they want government back (though 2010 is very likely out of reach anyway), and if that means a few backdowns and humiliations in the first six months of Labor’s term, so be it.
They have a long way to go, but ditching WorkChoices was an important step.
And your “rabble” comment is just standard commentary about most new Oppositions – the question is will they still look like a rabble in, say, early 2010. I think it’s too early to tell.
GG @ 377,
Wait and see, and as I advised KR, enjoy this phase while it lasts!
GG @ 377,
You also seem to have forgotten that one Kevin Rudd was hardly a household name three years ago. One of the iron laws of politics is “expect the unexpected”.
Although I would be amazed if the Libs won in 2010, all this “knowing for sure” what will happen at an election in three years’ time is puzzling, to say the least.
Kirribilli Removals Says:
February 19th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
You think so, I once support these guys, and I now have to listen to parts of my family who haven’t seen that politics has moved on from union bashing carry on with the same nonsense the idiots in the Liberal party are.
Questions over the walking of Rudd’s pets? It would be a real start if they just grew up.
Dyno- the libs main problem will be policy. What right wing moderate policies should we produce whilst the party in power has much the same policies.
I would not right them off in 2010 for one reason, economics as i think tough times are coming and if they get tougher Labor may be in trouble.
And already to a degree Labor is cooking its goose by introducing tax cuts.
have been waiting for my less than esteemed bloger ….alas he has arrived
The pets thing was rubbish, I agree.
I actually thought the issue of who was paying for child care was rubbish, too, however it obviously struck a nerve with Rudd since he reacted so quickly to it.
Has anyone any actual idea about what this thread is about anymore? God knows I can get totally tangential, but this has got a bit crazy. I have to tell you, I’ll need to take a good long hard look at myself. And I warn you William tomorow is full moon! Good luck with Brendon and Mezmerelda, Glen and ESJ. Sorry about the shadeundfreude.
mm @ 382,
Agree, the economy is the main thing that is likely to stop Rudd increasing his majority in 2010.
Everyone knows it, and from an Opposition viewpoint, that coupled with Swan’s seeming flat-footedness makes Wayne the perfect target.
marky marky @ 371
Nothing to be confused about, mate. It’s the Lib’s standard operating procedure to alway give themselves a way out from having to accept blame for anything.
It was best illustrated in the 4 Corner’s expose of the so called McLachlan Affair. First Costello had his tame ‘journalist,’ Milne ask McLachlan about the Howard-Costello leadership agreement and then he gives McLachlan the wink and nod to tell Milne everything. But now Cossie claims that it really didn’t have anything to do with him. It was up to McLachlan who he talked to, not him – he is, of course, totally innocent and can’t understand what all the fuss is about.
Hi Dyno,
I suppose to me it is the difference between saying you want to win and really wanting to win. I just don’t think the Libs can win with their current personnel.
However, as you say, things can be unpredictable, especially the future.
Cheers.
Must say Turnbull is tearing Swan apart in Parliament.
Swan was never any good just like Smith and Conroy. The three roosters who can’t crow.
Hey Ron and ESJ,
You guys should really try my thingy at 326.
The only reason Swan isnt gone yet is because its so soon after taking office just wait after 6months and the fall out wont be as bad if he gives it to Tanner.
Swans’ test will be the budget, if he stuffs up he may be gone sooner, if he handles it well he will be their for the long run- unfortunately.
Frankly I do not believe the 9% is accurate. To suggest 80% of Liberal voters
who supported Howard now do not directly support Nelson is not credible
Roy Morgan has got it wrong before
GG @ 388,
They’ll need some changes, don’t disagree with that.
But I think the economy is going to be a major challenge for Labor, and as it’s a topic where their “brand” is not necessarily strong, I wouldn’t be calling 2010 just yet.
Glen what about your mate Lord Nelson, what does he believe in? Will he last longer than Swan?
Ron,
The 9%, coming 2-3 days after the apology, is a pretty meaningless number.
The 40% approval of the way Nelson is doing the job, whilst hardly great, is probably more to the point.
Marky…obviously not AWAs anymore
Maybe thats a possible bet…but why would Turnbull want to take over now i mean he’s no fool.
9% and 40% satisfaction level is odd best leave it to future polls.
I did try your #326… thanks for nothing growler
and what did it get me …………a ban from William for 2 hours
not just in “moderation’ blogosphere but worse , a “re-orientaion” zone where I was forced to read all of ESC ’s blogs over the last 4 months backwards
Currently I’m out on ‘parole’
Ron,
Do the crime, do the time.
350
Generic Person – that’s IT – I’ve obviously died and gone to
heavennirvana – after lurking here for over 6 months u have FINALLY typed a sensible sentence – GG & KR help me pls400 and slapped the Queensland Shadow Treasurer in the same post…amazing stuff.
I would have thought the most important thing for a new gov’t to do is to impress threir stamp, “this is what we are about and how it is to be achieved” type of stuff. As an addendum to Possum’s latest treatise, I would expect the Rudd juggernaut will proceed. Forget Swann’s very forgetable QT performances. It’s unimportant. I’m an unapologetic old woman who struggles with trying to get enough young people do something useful with their lives. For anyone going to the summit in April, see if anyone has any ideas that amount to a hill of beans in relation to the most marginalised in our society.
I think if she stops using arrogance and hypocrite to describe others she disagrees with, she might become a real contributor to the discussion.
Greeensborough, I’ve clearly missed something apropos of you post at 403. What on earth happened? Who is she?
Hows this for form. Andrew actually paid to see, read and hear all that publicity over the Haneef Affair. Methinks a hair shirt under the cassock.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/andrews-ran-up-200000-bill-on-media-monitoring/2008/02/19/1203190812404.html
Harry,
Just testing a few perceptions that either or both GP and ESJ are male.
406,
…or the same person?
oh Megan , tell me it can not be !
Kirribilli Removals
You certainly have a way with words KR.
Very well put.
And the Battle For Wentworth continues – in Senate Estimates.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23244128-5005361,00.html
Scorpio
thats because he has time on his hands since he moved John & Janet , but that may change with his new superhornet removalist fleet having potential business
The problem the LNP now has is a severe lack of talent not to mention credibility. Rudd has almost out performed Howard’s 11 years in the space of a few months.
Nelson, Turnbull and Bishop whilst, the LNP faithful and hopeful might be enamored, the reality is they are short on ability and, now that the veil of Howard has been lifted they are all alone; very naked.
In contrast the ALP is over flowing with talent and we ought not to forget that all the ALP ministers matched and often out performed the Howard ministers in their debates prior to the election. With most of those under performing ministers out in the back benches there is even a larger gaping hole on the front bench.
The ALP have the likes of Shorten, Combe, McKew on the reserves bench at the moment. Each one of them is the equal to anything on the LNP front bench at the moment.
Swan has plenty of time to attune himself to the new environment and even today did a much better job now that he worked out Turnbull’s trick was nothing more than picking acronyms or teasers from an economic text book.
The LNP are on a long cold march. I wouldn’t have too much faith in Turnbull – he was pretty much a failure when he did have a portfolio and is likely to be a paper tiger – he truly lacks any gifts. The LNP really need to dump all of them except maybe Joe for his friendly agreeable bearing.
Megan 407, I believe there’s a good deal of circumstantial evidence to support this theory.
now you have me bewilded apres ,
ESC last night wrote 20 line of uplifting philosophy with the catch at the end to me asking who wrote it
I replied: Philosophy without substance , is like sex without a woman
Then Harry asked GP what he GP did all day and I replied,
GP being generic , clearly sex was not an option
Now you suggest “it” may be the same person but the sex is either unknown or generic meaning my replies were wasted on generics
Ron Says: @ 393
{Roy Morgan has got it wrong before}
Hey Ron. How long has Roy Morgan been working for Newspoll?
Scorpio
The last Roy Morgan Poll 2 days before the Election had the normal ‘intro’ from Gary which Possum suggests is useless as Gary is not a political interpretor.
the ‘intro’ contained many statistical figures contained in the detailed Poll numbers…but one varied from the detailed Poll figures
I rang Roy Morgan & spoke to Gary himself , after 60 seconds backwards & forwards on stats he acknowledged the error & said he’d correct his site
(which he did)
I was not inspired with confidence from the exchange & can fully endorse Possum’s conclusions.
As to the 9% for Nelson Scorpio , I do not think the figure is credible but most would disagree with me
and taking the Poll around the ‘apology’ further distorted the figures against Nelson
Just to clear up all the vitriolic confusion, I am male.
No 412
It’s easy to dismiss the Coalition as talentless after a landslide loss, but I think you’re being rather naive. I can tolerate the excessive love-in about the advent of a Labor Government, but the opposition is not without talent.
Just wait till a scandal/polarising issue arises, then things will balance out. All Governments eventually drop down to Earth after an endearing honeymoon.
No 416
Finally, we reach agreement on something.
Random response, whatever appeals to me.
Mouse pads. Min and Mao.
There are Nine Million Bicycles in Beijing.
There are million mouse mats in the ring
And that’s a fact.
There are fewer choices in the World
A lovely thing is a Choice Mat of the world
And that’s a fact
There a some million mouse mats in t
Crikey , a gem
GP has not replied Crikey as you lost him with your logic
Oh.
Not quite composed.
No relation to Wayne.
Sympathy, however.
Good.
Anyone would be bewildered, harder even for GP.
the current LCP chaos is causing considerable joy , inevitably the polls will come significantly closer together. Perhaps Hockey who I’ve praised from his
4 Corners interview may end up as a surprise packet
{As to the 9% for Nelson Scorpio , I do not think the figure is credible but most would disagree with me}
Ron! Maybe there is a 3% margin of error with this figure.
It could be 13% which could flatter Nelson, or worse still, only 6% which would really be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I meant 12%.
This will please Glen.
{CHRIS Judd is the new captain of Carlton. The Blues have just announced his appointment, with Nick Stevens as his vice-captain.}
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23239446-661,00.html
Given that 47.5% of the country voted for the Coalition, that 9% figure just simply does not make any sense.
429
Generic Person – no- you are right – NO time or events have occurred since 24 Nov 2007
What about the 70% PPM figure for Rudd, GG?
No 430
Otiose you cannot credibly argue that a significant proportion of Coalition voters simply decided to switch sides after the election and support Rudd. That’s a fallacious position at best.
432
Generic Person – non-fallaciousness (credibility) is not mine – it’s the pollsters
{Otiose you cannot credibly argue that a significant proportion of Coalition voters simply decided to switch sides after the election and support Rudd. That’s a fallacious position at best.}
432,
I would suggest that a significant proportion of “Liberal” voters have done just that.
I would further suggest that they were the last minute waverers who dropped the polling figures for Labor in the last 2 weeks and voted Coalition but almost immediately regretted what they had done.
I further suggest that events since November 24th have reinforced that regret.
I further suggest that they will be very hard to win back to the Coalition fold in the next 3 years, especially if Rudd & Co can keep up the pace they have shown so far.
No 434
I’ll await a more consistent spread of polling before making any judgments about voter intentions.
I think it is much too early to rely on these polls, and even more naive to believe they are going to be norm for the next three years.
GP, a significant number of ex-Howard government MPs simply decided to switch sides after the election and support Rudd on Kyoto, the Apology and related indigenous policies, plus we now have the backdown on AWAs, admissions that Work Choices was unfair and a repudiation of Howard himself as a leader who was more interested in himself than his beloved party as seen on 4Cs.
What is so “fallacious” about the voters doing the same. It’s a fact that public support for the Apology went up after the Apology itself was delivered. This was Rudd leading by example, a much better example than Tuckey, Mirabella et al demonstrated when they spat the dummy and either walked out of Parliament or boycotted the Apology sitting.
Face it GP: you’re a denialist relic, a shag on a rock, isolated and rather pathetic in your impersonation of a one-man Coalition cheer squad.
Rudd may not last as PM for 10 years, as Howard did, but the winds of change are blowing. You’d do well to up stakes and forget past allegiances, as it seems that most Coalition parliamentarians have – at least on several major issues so far – as has the public, as evidenced in the latest Newspoll.
You can rail all you like about what’s probable, possible and fallacious… but whether you like it or not with Nelson on 9%, Rudd on 70% (give or take a few per cent… what does it matter with those figures) and Labor on 57% 2PP, with the Coalition on 36% primary, you’re on a hiding to nothing.
The country has moved on. So should you.
435,
{I think it is much too early to rely on these polls, and even more naive to believe they are going to be norm for the next three years.}
This would have to be one of the few times that I am in complete agreement with you.
Hope it doesn’t spoil your day.
Cheers, Scorpio
Scorpio , I would wish to share your optimism re the 9% but can not for statistical & political ‘block’ reasons.
What I’m suggesting is twofold:
The present Poll was taken around the ‘apology’ period and during Kevin07’s honeymoon and following the ‘good’ newsof Kyoto & the impending removal of AWA’s and during the worst cycle of “recognition” for any new Opposition Leader.
It will never get so good again but if an election was held now , the 2PP may be approx at best 55% to 57% not 91% as the 9%s SOMEWHAT implys. The current ALP record 2PP is Hawke’s approx 53.3% and Howard reached 2PP approx 53.5%
In that context , the 9% was disregarded by me
This here is not a good look.
{A LEAKED submission reveals that the Coalition leadership was overruled by its own front bench and forced to abandon the last vestige of John Howard’s industrial relations reforms, Australian Workplace Agreements.
The backdown was an embarrassment for the leadership team of Brendan Nelson and Julie Bishop, who had argued publicly for the retention of the individual contracts.
But at two separate shadow ministry meetings on Monday they were overruled by colleagues who felt AWAs were inextricably linked to Work Choices, a key factor in the Coalition’s election defeat last year.
Ms Bishop denied she was rolled but the Herald has obtained a confidential written submission she took to the Monday morning meeting. It canvassed various options for the Coalition to use its Senate majority to delay or block the abolition of AWAs.}
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/liberal-frontbenchers-roll-leader-on-agreements/2008/02/19/1203190824091.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
{Ms Bishop’s submission argued that Labor’s bill to abolish AWAs would take Workplace Relations back to the pre-1996 era.
“The Coalition introduced AWAs in 1996 and support for them was tested at the 1998, 2001 and 2004 elections,” it says.
“Support for the right of individuals to directly negotiate an individual contract with their employer, subject to a no-disadvantage test, is a core principle of the Coalition.”
In a sign of the distrust permeating senior Coalition ranks, the Herald learned that Ms Bishop had kept the submission deliberately vague and omitted any final recommendations because she was concerned it would be leaked.}
Looks like it is going to be an uncomfortable first 6 months for the Liberal Front Bench team. Infighting and leaking profusely is not a good look.
No 439
It’s better this process of re-evaluation and self-reflection happens now not in 3 years time.
On closer reflection, I think the choice to backflip on AWAs/Workchoices was prudent. The Liberal Party already knew about its dire poll result the evening prior and hence to append a policy backflip to such news is really an exercise is efficient face-saving through the media. It doesn’t look good, but it keeps media frenzy to a minimum.
I am listening to Tony Delroy, Issue of the Day, as I do.
The first couple of callers expressed their hopes, under the Rudd Government.
The usual suspect, extreme cynic, phoned in. The ‘all the same’ deal.
The woman speaking now seems to think that her husband’s AWA is a better thing.
That he can work it through on its merits. Not, as she says, she has looked for one moment at the agreement, nor even asked her husband. She seems to think that because he is, according to her judgment, a fantastic worker, that he will not be replaced.
She says that he is one of the three or four left, of the original work force in his area. It appears that she thinks that her husband’s AWA and his diligence will suffice.
She did not raise an alternative scenario. What dismissal would mean. What her husband’s AWA allows, in terms of ‘that’s it.’
This string of articles coming out in today’s papers won’t help the Coalition cause any either.
The trouble for them is the pain is all self inflicted. They can’t really blame the media for closely following their untidy and disjointed introduction to the world of opposition.
[NOT three months into the Liberal Party leadership of Brendan Nelson, it has become all but impossible to discern what he stands for.
The two issues on which he appeared most resolute when he ascended to the party’s top job — the future of WorkChoices and the wisdom of an official apology to Aborigines forcibly taken from their families — have had him and his party shifting and turning as they tried to get on the right side of public opinion. In the process, he has left deep gouges in his credibility with an electorate that approves of politicians of conviction and punishes ditherers.
The polls show the damage: }
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23242899-13360,00.html
{THE Coalition has called an end to its 12-year crusade to break union power in the workplace through individual contracts, forcing deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop into a humiliating public backdown.
After weeks of insisting that Australian Workplace Agreements were essential to workplace flexibility, Ms Bishop confirmed yesterday that the Coalition would not seek to block the Rudd Government’s plan to purge the contracts from the industrial system.
The reversal came after senior Liberals including Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey and Christopher Pyne argued privately that it was “madness” to cling to AWAs.}
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/libs-give-up-on-12year-ir-crusade/2008/02/19/1203190822590.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
{BURYING a government is a messy business. Just ask Brendan Nelson and his mates.
Burying a leader can be pretty awful as well. And that is under way, too.}
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/liberals-to-limp-on-in-gathering-gloom/2008/02/19/1203190822671.html
Most of the MSM are carrying similar headings in numerous articles all in the same vein. They probably won’t let go of this for a day or so and the Libs will sustain considerable damage in the process.
No 442
Crikey I don’t really see what the problem is – if a certain business or industry is contracting, so will its workforce. The idea that people are in one job for the entirety of their lives is absurd, and its part of the reason why the union movement gradually became so insignificant in the workplace: worker mobility and the casualisation of the workforce.
In the end, subject to a reasonable safety net in the form of a minimum wage, it is up to the worker to prove his or her value to the business at hand.
{On closer reflection, I think the choice to backflip on AWAs/Workchoices was prudent.}
441,
The big problem for them is they are loo late. They took too long and demonstrated procrastination and division. Not a good look.
I’m afraid I have to agree with Michelle Gratten’s Analysis on this.
{To cut its losses, the Coalition should have got its position definitively out of the way before Christmas, when Nelson pronounced WorkChoices dead. But like everything else, the issue dragged on, as Opposition figures argued about what to do, split between those who wanted to retain something of the philosophy and those preoccupied with commonsense politics.}
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/liberals-to-limp-on-in-gathering-gloom/2008/02/19/1203190822671.html
Oh the Humilty for the School Prefect.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/20/2167246.htm
GP.
The dear wife has not, self confessed, the faintest idea of the terms of her spouse’s agreement.
Now, that is a matter for them, but I suspect once her husband’s use by date is reached, ‘worker mobility and the casualisation of the workforce’ will have meaning.
She did not mention a safety net, she mentioned what she imagines is the worth of her husband. She believes that the business holds him in the same regard.
Her husband’s worth, to her, is proven.
The question remains, is it, to the employer?
And as Tony delicately implied, what if he were replaceable by two low wage youngsters.
Golly, Scorpio and Frank.
Good that you are at the barricades!
I was even assaulted earlier tonight by someone who immediately bought into the Rudd arrangements for their son.
Not that I am up to speed on this matter, and the whatevers.
Still feel besieged, already.
No 447
Then clearly that is the market at play. To be involved in that market, the husband would need to reskill and compete on quality.
No 445
But Michelle Grattan is being rather optimistic about the real situation within the party at that time.
They had just suffered a crushing defeat and there was still uncertainty as to how to proceed. Of course, these things should have been proffered and finalised much earlier, but when the party is so divided, it really isn’t that simple.
So, with that in mind, it is unsurprising that the party then sought to minimise the damage by revealing the backflip on the same day as the 9% poll result. Efficient face-saving.
By 2010, the electorate will have long forgotten these petty squabbles, providing that the Coalition remains consistent in its approach to policy hereafter.
Nuh, GP.
Please explain how that is to happen.
Real world, if you would not mind.
Mortgage, children, school fees, income, training opportunities.
No 451
It happens all the bloody time in the market now. Trying to emotionally enhance your argument by adding the worries of mortgages and school fees just doesn’t wash.
If a skilled person has become replaced with a machine or cheaper labour, then the skilled person has to value-add in order to be employed elsewhere. Often, employers are willing to invest in training and education if the worker demonstrates real ability, loyalty and core competency.
Not answered. The means? There is no employer, in the situation of the unemployed. And the woman believes her spouse ‘demonstrates real ability, loyalty and core competency’.
‘Often, employers are willing to invest in training and education if the worker demonstrates real ability, loyalty and core competency.’
Quite often thay are not – they are just as happy to shaft employees. If an environment is created where workers can be shafted, employers will. You’re being naive if you think otherwise.
Scorpio
Abandoning AWA’s now is a better political position for the Coalition long term than continuing to support AWA’s
The decision relects everything I dislike about the Coalition and everything I grudging acknowledge. T
The decision to abandon a FUNDAMENTAL philisophical political belief (for the moment) and not for the first time have they done so demonstrates the complete lack of their Party’s principles.The ALP does not so glibly abandon fundamental philisophical political beliefs particularly in social justice & equity
On the other hand , the Liberal’s have over time have been more successful “politically’ in winning elections than the ALP because they are willing to abandon philosophical beliefs in the persuit of votes to win Elections.
This is not to say the ALP is or has been ‘pure’ but simply the Liberals priority has always been to win elections.
Deliberately naive, if not worse, in the case of GP.
Hence the downfall of the former Government.
And their unlikely resurrection, should GP be among their advisers.
No 456
It is not deliberately naive if you make access to education widespread and easy for all market participants.
At the end of the day, you’ve got to make the case to the employer not the other way around. You do that by demonstrating experience and skill.
I don’t wish to be unkind, but you still have not answered my question.
On that note, I am going to bed.
No 455
I think you’re being a little disingenuous Ron. Rudd abandoned most of the “true believer” leftist ideology once espoused by the ALP in the past.
He essentially agreed with Howard on everything except Climate Change, the Apology and WorkChoices.
At the end of the day, whilst the battle of ideas in politics is important, someone has to win those battles. Pure principle and ideology do not win elections.
This may do. GP. Excerpt. Not that I agree with the heading. Conclusion is excellent. I have included the link, if it does not work, the article is in The Age.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/menzies-way-is-the-only-true-path-to-victory/2008/02/17/1203190649298.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
‘Menzies’ way is the only true path to victory. Robert Dean February 18, 2008
Overcoming the distance barriers to achieving this goal takes ingenuity, effort and inventiveness — a central Liberal attribute.
Saying sorry to help heal a wound of a disadvantaged group is heeding Menzies’ words: “We shall demand (a government) gives to (the needy) all the sustenance they need and support it can …”
Similarly, accepting that WorkChoices could result in unfairness to the weak is, as Menzies put it, “… preventing labour turning into a commodity”.
Why the politically mean-spirited choose politics or why proponents of the law of the jungle join Menzies’ Liberal Party is a mystery.
They will continue to marginalise us’.
Dr Robert Dean is a barrister and mediator of the Victorian Bar. He is a past Liberal parliamentary secretary, shadow attorney-general, shadow treasurer and Opposition Aboriginal affairs spokesman in the Victorian Parliament.
The Queensland Electoral Commission has all candidates standing for local Government election on its website.
http://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/elections/local/lg2008/groupIndex.html
Although I would be the first to caution the Government against complacency, I do not see the Libs being competitive in 2010.
Those who argue that they’re working their way through a few glitches, that they have to sort out their policies, that their leadership team needs time to bed down and that the government will never have it so good again, are ignoring the lessons we should have learnt (and the Libs should have, too) from recent experiences in State Government.
That is, that Liberals across the nation seem to be talentless, directionless and unelectable.
In those circumstances, it would appear that people in voter land are willing to put up with even Iemma rather than vote for them.
I cannot see any indications that the Liberals on a Federal level are any different in quality to their state counterparts, whereas I would argue (using objective evidence such as polls, which are the only oe we really have) that the present Federal Government is far outperforming most other governments.
Nelson does not have the character needed to save this mob, but as I’ve said before, that’s really irrelevant. Their best chance of being reelected is to purge the party of anyone who had Ministerial authority and replace them with bright (emphasis) young things, giving byt the experience they will need to take government.
Even this scenario means at least two terms in the wilderness, but any other I would argue means even longer.
PS however, judging by the calibre of the Young Liberal mob, I question whether there are byts out there.
Scorpio @ 445,
Agree, they would have been much better to do this before Christmas.
However, by late 2010 I’m not sure that the two month delay will matter too much.
The argument about which party has held steadfastly to core principles and which has pragmatically ducked and weaved for electoral advantage is missing the point. Over the last few decades politics in Australia has moved away from the ideological extremes and into the centre. Labor deregulated the banks and reformed IR with enterprise bargaining etc, it was clearly ditching the old left extremes.
What has happened recently to the LNP’s is that they drifted back out to the fringes once they had control of the Senate and thought they could get away with it. Howard, being yesterday’s man in more ways than one, was still fighting the old ideological battle of capital versus labour, and had failed to realise that the modern era has been more about a partnership rather than a winner take all contest. By giving such extreme power to one side, Howard not only turned back the ideological clock, but showed just how archaic his mindset was, and the voters reacted accordingly by despatching him to political oblivion.
Now his progeny are having a hard time leaving the tardy Tardis of Howard’s partisan time travelling and joining the rest of Australia, some desperate to return to it, and others desperate to jump off.
Until this question is resolved, the LNP is in a state of being between realities, neither here, nor there, and we can all sit back and enjoy the show, as they fight over the controls.
Bring on the Republic, and the Australia they think they are trying to return to will no longer exist, and they’ll be stuck in the inter-temporal vortex for eternity, trying to re-materialise at the coronation of QEII.
Pass the popcorn…I’m enjoying this bit…
The core principles of the “true believer” from Labor’s inception the 1890’s to Curtin’s “light on the hill” to Rudd have never changed. All Labor has done over the 100 years is to change the material not the clothes.
Even many otherwise strong ALP supporters buy the Conservative & Media’s revisionist view of political history that the battle ground was all about left wing socialism and because Labor has repudiated socialism its basic ideology has changed.
Keating’s 1992 ‘Redfern’ speech gives a clue but his 1993 victory speech “this is a victory for “the true believers” was NOT hubris or a throw away line but a message the core principles have never changed.
As for the Conservatives , their basic ideology has not changed either. Fraser would have introduced w/c had he the ticker. Howard had the ticker to do so because w/c is consistent with Liberal ideology and Nelson & co. for the moment have simply put it in the draw for later use
The Age’s Tony Wright has just recounted on ABC radio how in the early months of the Hawke government Bob would often return to his office after QT in utter despair at how badly Keating had performed.
We all know how that turned out for the then opposition.
I know there are some very sick male lefties at this site but WTF people!! I think some of you have some explaining to do! Ralph magazine reports.
Gillard voted second sexiest woman in Australia (after the gorgeous Jennifer Hawkins)
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23243859-5006301,00.html
Diogenes, I agree, Gillard is not a looker!
468 John of Melbourne – I agree but she is PM material.
Diogenes (467) …power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
Generic Person Says: @ 450
February 20th, 2008 at 2:31 am
{So, with that in mind, it is unsurprising that the party then sought to minimise the damage by revealing the backflip on the same day as the 9% poll result. Efficient face-saving.}
Yeah GP. Very efficient face-saving. And very effective too.
Multiple articles in every media outlet outlining their divisiveness and incompetence which will be given prominence within the Parliament by Labor leading to further embarrassment by follow-up coverage in the media is definitely “efficient face saving” LOL
scorpio
someone said awhile back that worstchoices would be the gift that keeps on giving.
GP
actually i agree but the “look” will cause some ongoing angst until the coalition can define what it really stands for.
On the contrary , the Liberals have made an astute political decision to ditch the ‘w/c baggage’. Expediency of philosophy over winning votes has been a prime reason for the Liberal’s superior election record over Labor.
w/c now its in the cupboard awaiting the next Lib leader with the ticker & Senate numbers to bring out of the dark
“I know there are some very sick male lefties at this site”
This is presented by Diogenes without qualification , polling or trend lines and is typical of anti Ralph Magazine supporters. “Please explain”
Ron,
William needs to start a new thread to discuss this interesting result.
MF @ 466,
An interesting memory, but I sense Swan’s trajectory is going to be somewhat different … However we’ll see.
The Liberals ought to still support individual agreements with serious protections for workers, that is the perfect middle ground position to take as the Tory IR policy for 2010. I dont see how the Tories can renege on unfair dismissal that ought to be retain as Tory policy for 2010.
Double or nothing Swan has a shocker today?
(after a long retirement)
Hi William,
Any chance of a thread on the latest NSW poll?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/iemma-is-failing-says-new-poll/2008/02/16/1202760661169.html
Glen,
If I was in charge of fund-raising for the Liberal Party (jokes about the impossibility of the task aside) I’d be praying that Labor tightens the unfair dismissal laws.
Just about the only thing Labor might do that would energise the Liberals’ (previous) core supporter base: small business.
Zoom (462)
Your post raises some interesting matters. There is superficial attraction to your argument that Federal politics is likely to follow a course in the short to medium term similar to what has occurred in State and Territory politics since the advent of the new century (that is, a glorious march to power and the circumstance of being able to stay there, for one side of politics, and abject desolation and irrelevancy, for the other side). Non-Labor appears to have a lot of difficulty attracting talented people into its parliamentary ranks at a state level and particularly when they are in power in Canberra. Further, most of the State and Territory ALP regimes came to power when non-Labor was in power in the Commonwealth and certainly all of them have been aided (to varying extents) in their re-elections by having the Howard government in power in Canberra. While I do not expect the changed circumstances in Canberra will have immediate effect around the country, I predict, and please note this is an example only, that by 2011 when the NSW Government seeks a fifth term, its opposition will ’seem’ a little less ‘talentless, directionless and unelectable’. Other than John Watkins, it is not immediately apparent who has any ability and/or talent in the present NSW Government (Carr, Knowles and Debus are all gone), whereas the O’Farrell led opposition do have some people with ability and who show promise of acquitting themselves well in government if allowed that opportunity (and yes, they are relatively young) in Rob Stokes, Mike Baird, Jonathan O’Dea and Gladys Berejeklian.
Whether we like it or not, elections in Australian politics are contests between Labor and non-Labor. This is why so much attention is given to the 2PP vote even in optional preferential voting contests. Inevitably, the cycle turns. It is quite fanciful, with respect, to expect one side will have a perpetual monopoly on talented people worthy of election to government.
I think it is reasonable to expect that non-Labor will be competitive at a Federal level within 2 terms of opposition. Historically, non-Labor has always regarded attaining power at the Commonwealth level of government as an imperative. Obviously getting able leadership is an important consideration for them and this will take time. However, as we all know, or should know, perceptions about issues and people in politics change (sometimes sooner they we might like). While it is certainly clear that the favourable perceptions are all going Labor’s way at the moment that will not prevail indefinitely, and nor should those who have a centrist persuasion want them to.
oakeshott country
Hi! Welcome back.
I was wondering where you got to.
Was missing your entertaining posts.
Cheers, Scorpio
OC, I was going to put up a post on the poll the other day, but they have exasperatingly failed to give us results on voting intention. I will indeed start opening threads on all state polls from now on, which I’ve only previously done during election campaigns.
Glen Says: @ 477
{The Liberals ought to still support individual agreements with serious protections for workers, that is the perfect middle ground position to take as the Tory IR policy for 2010. }
Sounds like a good idea to me too.
Here is a bit of reading on the subject for you.
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/a_brief_history_of_workchoices/
And what Julia Gillard thinks of the wonderful benefits workers have received so far under AWA’s.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/most-awas-stripped-penalties-holiday-pay/2008/02/19/1203190824137.html
David Charles
I asked a certain State Minister (now Premier) that very question a few years ago – was Federal Labor’s problem that all the brilliant, career orientated people were heading for State Government?
His answer was (modestly) that it was simply a brilliant time, economically, to be the incumbent.
So I agree with you to a large extent.
However, I have used Labor’s collapse after 1996 Federally and earlier in the States in earlier posts to point out what has to happen before a modern Party can become competitive again – it must dump all its past representatives (i.e. the public face of the government) and replace them with new talent. The quicker they do this, the better.
So I’m not being partisan here, or condemning the Libs to perpetual – or even short term – oblivion, but trying to point out some political realities.
Yes, cycles change – but we have seen countless elections where the cycle has changed, the incumbent is on the nose and STILL the Opposition is unelectable (and we’ve seen this on both sides of politics), so a party can’t just sit around waiting for this to happen.
Governments are like football Coachs ,
fullfiling their time waiting to be sacked……inevitably
In QT the rainmaker asked swan about state govt debt levels – swan’s answer was more than adequate and, following this blogs advice, brief
Mayoferal,
Keating was always better than Wayne Swan will ever be.
Another question for swan this time from the blond from the west re possible wages breakout – again answered sufficiently (and briefly). He’s even facing them at times
I’m enjoying the Liberals getting roasted in parliament on sky.
489, otiose
Practice may yet make perfect
joe joe joe
wherefore art thou avuncular one
shoe.other.foot
Rudd in full flight (he keeps getting better)
bronny expelled
game on
The bee-hived fishwife (B Bishop) out for an hour
Glen and Generic Person the article put up by Crikey Whitey
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/menzies-way-is-the-only-true-path-to-victory/2008/02/17/1203190649298.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
ia very good read, it would be nice if you both go and read it and think about what he is saying.
Redlands Council Mayor withdraws from contest.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/seccombe-pulls-out-of-redlands-mayoral-race/2008/02/20/1203467143794.html
Keep up Chuck, I read that article a couple days ago and posted a link to it in the last thread.
well the Liberals would take ‘advice’ from Robert Dean wouldn’t they , given during a State election campaign & being the shadow treasurer HE had to resign
and who does he quote…yep menzies in a 1942 speech here was Bob philosophising about “the forgotton People” WHILST HE FORGOT we were then in a deady war to save our skins lead by John Curtin……….such irony
Ron @ 465.
The “light on the hill” is Chifley’s, not Curtin’s. The relevant part of that famous speech is worth repeating here:
“I try to think of the Labour movement, not as putting an extra sixpence into somebody’s pocket, or making somebody Prime Minister or Premier, but as a movement bringing something better to the people, better standards of living, greater happiness to the mass of the people. We have a great objective – the light on the hill – which we aim to reach by working the betterment of mankind not only here but anywhere we may give a helping hand. If it were not for that, the Labour movement would not be worth fighting for.
If the movement can make someone more comfortable, give to some father or mother a greater feeling of security for their children, a feeling that if a depression comes there will be work, that the government is striving its hardest to do its best, then the Labour movement will be completely justified.”
- JB. Chifley in speech to the NSW Labor Party Conference, 12 June 1949.
Noticed two things in particular whilst watching QT today.
(1) The new Speaker is a breath of fresh air and seems determined to have the chamber operate in a level of decorum and responsibility which the people of this country have been screaming out for for many years.
(2) When the camera zoomed up on Fran Bailey, I thought I was having some sort of epileptic episode.
A blinding flash of shocking pink flashed across my eyes and I had to grab tightly onto the arms of my chair to prevent me from cascading onto the floor.
What a sight to cause sore eyes. I wonder how we will get on if she is unsuccessful in Labor’s challenge against her election.
She sure does add some colour and then some, to the Parliament.
thx Ferny
I can not even claim I did not know….perhaps the champers celebrations of another massive Obama win today will suffice in ‘defence’
believe the core principles of the speech are still the basic philosophy
Well Ron, I just thought it was a good excuse to reproduce the speech. It still inspires, and you’re right – it’s still Labor philosophy.
503 Seems like the Liberals are in such confusion over their on again, off again IR policy they have forgotten to issue their talking points to Glen and GP.
And another one of Howard’s beloved “Triumphs” is in tatters.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/20/2167650.htm?section=justin
Nelson is on now denying that inflation, business confidence drop, interest rate rises, Uncle Tom Cobbly & All has anything to do with the Howard government.
Apparently it is all Labor’s fault.
All of it.
A skills crisis, little infrastructure development, education up the spout and somehow or other it’s all Labor’s doing. And it’s only taken three months.
Will he ever learn? This kind of triumphalist claptrap is why they lost.
BB what about the State Labor governments?
506
What about the state Conservative oppositions???
Their performance as the opposition is woeful…but that isn’t the point…is it???
But then again…the Commonwealth has been the shining light the last decade.
State Labor governments? Yes! Let’s throw them into the mix.
Nothing, NOTHING that went wrong was down to Howard and his mob.
The only thing – apparently – that Labor could not be blamed for is the unemployment figure. That’s Howard’s property.
In the interests of following up on my post from earlier and using a reliable source, I was in a bookshop and looked up the latest Ralph magazine. I can confirm that Julia Gillard was voted the second sexiest woman by Australian men along with someone from Barbados called Birannia(?), and Jennifer Hawkins won. What truly disturbed me was that the magazine had offered Gillard $50,000 for a bikini shoot which her office had turned down!
BTW I just bumped into Nicole Cornes for the first time. She needed an extra 10c for her parking ticket. She really is quite stunning in real life.
In Victoria Kennet left Bracks an economy if in fantastic shape and awash with cash.
Where is my Royal Comission into the Vic Police?
NSW well… it will be the State that will give Mr. Kevin “the buck stops with me (health)” Rudd headaches. He will say I only just got in to office and the Coaltion will say when are you going to accept responsibility. That’s my take anyway.
JoM, Kennett (note sp) left Bracks a state where everything that moved had been privatised, infrastructure was beginning to deteriorate, schools had been closed, and many people were unemployed or underemployed because of privatisation. Local councils have never recovered from the forced ‘tendering out’ that occurred at that time. Take off your rose-coloured specs.
Diogenes, this is completly of topic (forgive please Mr Bowe) but can you point me towards some decent info on aspartame and its real and/or imagined downside. I have tried to research it but the net is just full of…well…you get the point
Do you know of any reliable reasearch or indeed do you know whether its as bad as some say?
Thanks in advance, a friend is hitiing 7-10 coke zeros a day in the belief that all is ok … I’m not so sure
John of Melbourne,
The grieving process looks like it is going to take a long time for you. Nelson/Turnbull/Hockey can’t make up their minds about anything. Apparently Workchices was responsible for higher wages but removing it is going to cause higher wages. Go figure! And now the states are to blame for L’il Johnny’s downfall. Of course they are.
For now console your self with:
1) Irag – we’re out
2) Stolen Generation – kissed and made up
3) Workchices – gone (along with some Liberal credibility)
4) Kyoto – signed
And we haven’t even used up the first two weeks! There is not much more that JWH stood for, if you exclude squatting at Kirribilli. Oh – that’s gone too.
You’ve got a lot to be angry about, JOM.
classified @ 512 – Most of the horror stories are rubbish. However, there is a very recent study (pdf) which found that artificial sweeteners actually make it harder to loose weight.
I’d be more worried about the coke. Horrible stuff thats only good for cleaning metal, IME.
Classified, I’m not a doctor of medicine, however, am a mental health clinician with 30 years experience. Forget the effect of the artificial sweetener, the quantity of Coke itself is a problem. I understand why people drink fizzy drinks, but they’re bad, bad, bad, from every perspective. Not good for teeth and gums, do not adequately quench thirst, sets up craving for more, feeds corporate profits for bad products. Seriously, that’s too much Coke anyway, even on the caffeine intake level.
Thanks MayoFeral…
Coke=bad=agree
I cleanse with Wild Turkey at all times just to be safe
Thanks aswell Harry “Snapper’ Organs
512
classified
Try the BMJ (British Medical Journal) in google.
I’m neither a doctor, nor a mental health clinician, but I’ve coached plenty of youngsters. We enforced the rule of 1 to 8 – for every glass of coke they had to drink 8 of water; it worked pretty quickly. Getting 8 glasses of water into a youngster can be hard work though…..
Then their wonderful parents started pumping them full of Gatorade. A fair few kids worked out the ills of that at their first major tournament…when they threw it up all over themselves, and played particularly poorly.
Classified – it’s going to hurst, but at your friends presumed age, just quitting it cold turkey and dealing with a few weeks of real pain is probably the best long term solution. In my experience – be prepared for a personality change, obviously for the worse initially, but then the better.
I once knew of a person who was using coke zero because they actually liked what it did to their personality (more aggressiveness, paranoia). I don’t think he’ll give it up without a lot of professional help.
Now to keep it political, today we saw some real mock outrage in the H of R, from both sides; I didn’t expect Labour to go there this early.
Julia has locked both doors at then end of the corridor that the libs are stuck in now, and the corridor runs from nowhere to the-back-of-nowhere anyway.
What’s the difference between a fortune teller and an economist……nothing.
Does anyone think that if the US goes in to recession that we won’t? There are plenty of intellectual arguments for why we won’t, but by my observation there are too many similarities between the fashion industry and the stock market – if miniskirts are the go in the US, I’ll bet they’re the go here too.
John of Melbourne, I have no doubt that NSW will provide many challenges for Fed. Labor and Rudd. Labor has its own issues there as anyone with any degree of honesty would tell you or agree with you. However, Victoria, where I also live, is a different story, I would suggest. There are many things I would criticise about the government here, the previous Police Minister being one of them, but I think Christine Nixon has been exceptional and to the government’s credit they have backed her all the way. I have fairly senior connections within Victoria Police who confirm that there are people who do sabotage any attempt by Christine Nixon to cleanse and modernise the force. I’ve no idea why you think a Royal Commission would do any better. From talking to my plod colleagues, they seem to think that if you’ve got either the current arrangement in Vic. or something like the Q’l'd CCJ, society has, at the least an ongoing mechanism for addressing the problems in policing. Now ask me about fraud and corruption that happens in the health industry, not to mention outright criminality. I add, to demonstrate I’m serious about this, that I was part of removing a very senior person from my work and having them charged and found guilty of criminal charges, and deregistered. I say in my defence, I’m a social worker with a pronounced mongrel streak.
Another notch in the Howard legacy.
http://www.asx.com.au/sfe/targetratetracker.htm
Scorpio, 500.
Mind how you go! I am alarmed!
Creature Comforts, for example, do not cause such deleterious reactions.
I recorded Rick Stein. French Odyssey. The program itself was very relaxing. Recording it and renaming it on the new machine was even more blindingly boggling, though.
Think I have coaxial issues.
Pretty okay about the Parliament, until I saw the 7.30 report. The Future Eaters bit.
Maybe there will be a double wammy rate increase to correct the legacy of Howard, Costello and the ‘Good economic management’ dream team.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/
Classified
at 512
Google Aspartame + Donald Rumsfeld and you will be guaranteed some interesting reading and eye openers.
Just the name Rumsfeld should help your friend give it up.
512 classified-Actually, your post is NOT off topic. Nutrasweet, aka aspartame, was made by Searle whose CEO was one of history’s most evil men, none other than Donald Rumsfeld!!
Like all artificial substances, it has been blamed for almost every disease imaginable but none of the evidence is credible. It’s been around long enough to say its almost certainly harmless, unless you have PKU (which my daughter has incidentally). It’s certainly better than having normal Coke in those amounts. I agree with the other bloggers regarding the caffeine though. There’s plenty of evidence of harm from that amount of caffeine in terms of psychological changes. Being a Stoic, I think the best advice I can give is everything is okay in moderation, except perhaps ricin and cyanide.
and Liberal Governments
And yeah, it is all Howard’s fault. Definitely. Though I do not overlook Labor’s, or was it the Democrats, progress, or lack thereof, in advancing the digital world, much earlier than Howard’s World.
If my house, street, suburb, district, telephone exchange, cabling, infrastructure, State, Australia, had not remained so dismally 19th Century, under the Golden Years of Howard, as Andrew Robb so deludely, if that is a word, put it to Fran, I would probably not have to grapple with all these weirdly difficult matters, such as not enabled for ADSL2, no digital infrastructure conveyance for digital TV.
And no one need bother to challenge me on this. Why is that my friend’s students, as I have mentioned in the past, from Hongkong, for example, are so puzzled that our buildings are not wired for everything I struggle with.
They apparently have no problem. They apparently have super speed broadband. At cost little to nothing. I don’t know about digital TV reception etc but I would place my bet it is nothing like this household to household challenge.
And I won’t even begin on alternative energy, solar and on it goes.
The Retrograde Years. Retreated, Australia Fair.
Diogenes to qualify as a stoic do you need to be underweight?
Harry i also live in Victoria and yes the Victorian Labor Party is quietly and slowly beginning to be on the nose. A royal commission i am ambivalent about, on the one hand it would be a lawyers picnic and on the other their are a number of endemic problems within the police force at present, they being corrupt police.
In regards to other matters i think the government here has become arrogant and distant, it is letting the big end of town develop policy and is supporting it through spin, this is a major concern. Issues such as transport are a sore and why because the government has been to slow to introduce change, instead it spent billions on a roof at Southern Cross Station this money could have been used for outer suburban lines or railway crossing safety measures.
The government is supporting projects like Channel Deepening with costs and benefits practically equalling each other, who came up with this great vision! It is simply a joke. And guess what to overcome all the truck traffic at the entrance of the docks as a result the government will sign off for tunnel under the Yarra… Already the Racv and the Herald Sun are demanding it, but at what cost and at what future cost when peak oil presents itself and then slowly drives prices to levels in which few people will use the road.
Another toll and another major infrastructure financer owner benefiting… Put simply the Victorian Government has little vision and is in trouble.
After listening to Jacinta Allan telling us that the Opposition has no policies or ideas last week i have one question for her what are ideas and policies of the present government?
Jacinta Labor is on the nose and will if it continues to ignore public concerns be in trouble in 2010.
But when did you last see someone underweight drinking diet coke?
Another $2 billion wasted by the Howard government
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/iraq-war-bill-to-top-2-billion/2008/02/20/1203467178927.html
And not forgetting all those Iraqis’ who died as a result.
And the traumatised and miamed soldiers, it was an absolute disgrace. Just amazing what human beings do to each other.
Wonder where the WMD’s are?
sanque,
There is no such thing as a Howard Government. It was a fairy tale. You were fast asleep while everything was happening.
For Queensland readers there will be a Community Cabinet at Narangba Valley High School on 2 March.
http://www.pmc.gov.au/community_cabinet/#qld
533
Never forgive, never forget.
All too easily we fall into the trap of forgetting just how bad a period of time was, because its easier to forget and enjoy the good times.
The ex-Howard Government was the worst period of Australian history for a long time, and we must endeavour to ensure that this period is reviled and never repeated again.
ESJ- All Stoics are underweight. We have forgone the Dionysian pleasures of the flesh, unlike you hedonists. And as above I met the lovely Nicole Cornes today, but I decided not to ask her about your query? PS Alan Clarke arrived yesterday, if it’s no good I’m holding you personally responsible!
steve- The most obese people in the queue’ I find myself in ALWAYS drink diet Coke. They just have a donut, a pie and a bucket of chips with it.
Good to see the media are concentrating on the big issues-
Julia Gillard is Australia’s second sexiest woman.. What next?
Marky Marky, the worlds best dropkick
I am amazed that Iraq is merely that amount. $2 billion.
But does it include the ships in the Gulf, the support costs and so on?
Or is that figure only about troops on the ground, in Iraq itself? Does it, with due respect, include…..and at this point I stop.
For I entertain some very terrible thoughts, about other costs. Which are hard, inflammatory and need more consideration before being put in writing.
Has anyone seen the prolific pre-election poster, lose the election please, around lately?
ESJ – Mea culpa and apologies for yesterday putting Major Peter Young as ALP candidate for Lowe in the 1972 election. It was 1969 when he stood against McMahon. The ALP insider I asked was an election off the mark, and I don’t blame him as those from that era are getting on a bit now. So it was indeed Bill Fisher in 1972, who later became very an excellent and well-respected President of the NSW Industrial Court.
Diogenes @ 509 – Can you expand a bit on Nicole Cornes needing 10c for parking? It’s intriguing. Did you help her out?
My parking was $50 today – where were you then?
William please withdraw Greensboroughs’ comments, although i am not offended, he rarely has anything intelligent to state.
Crikey Whitey Says: @ 522
February 20th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Scorpio, 500.
{Mind how you go! I am alarmed!}
Not half as alarmed as I was Crikey.
It was a sight to behold. Accompanied by the Pink rimmed glasses, pink earrings and pink lipstick, the vision filled the screen and made my eyes glaze over.
It was like looking at someone through pink cellophane paper. Certainly a very colourful scene in the Parliament today.
Marky Marky,
There is this thing called democracy.
I can tease you,
You can say I wan’t to kill you and I am a member of the KKK.
Let the punters decide who is more credible.
Grow up Greensborough.
Marky Marky,
Prove me wrong!
541 jv- It was very boring. She was with two colleagues and was parking the car in Adelaide. There was a parking inspector there and they needed the minimum of 50c or something for the meter and were 10c short. They asked me, very nicely, for 10c was able to give them. I think she must have been going into 5AA’s studio.
{Has anyone seen the prolific pre-election poster, lose the election please, around lately?}
Yeah. There are still a number of these posters stuck up on telegraph posts in my area! LOL
Did anyone see this love poem from Stephen Galilee in today’s Australian? Evokes memories of ‘I did but see him passing by,……’
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23242472-7583,00.html
Diogenes @ 525 -
“everything is okay in moderation, except perhaps ricin and cyanide.”
A very reliable source tells me that Lib supporters thrive on both in the same way that horses do on arsenic – puts a spring in their step and gives ‘em nice shiny hair. Indeed, the more they consume the better they and the rest of us will feel.
Crikey Whitey @ 539 – The $2 billion will be the raw on the ground costs so won’t include whatever ongoing costs are incurred for Veterans Affairs payments, medical treatment, etc, nor will it include wear and tear/accelerated equipment replacement, etc. OTOH, they usually include some costs that would have been paid anyway – wages etc.
Did she really, Scorpio? I thought for a moment it was just you.
Isn’t there a rather interesting person called Pink? Who seems to be, last I had time to think of such things, a socialist type?
Perhaps Fran has confused her role models. Or is that she is trying to outdo Bronnie Bishop?
GG, it’s not a good idea to abuse people out of nowhere for reasons unstated. I have no idea what your quarrel with MM is about, but most people reading this thread would have to assume you were responding to his most recent comment about Iraq.
Barrel dweller @ 536
I’m 15 kgs over. But, hey, that’s life.
Diogenes -547
I’ve always understood that a gentleman should never hand money to a woman in public, but hopefullly nobody got the wrong idea
There are apparently a few on here who would rather give 10c to Julia Gillard. Can you believe that?
Hi William,
Glad to respond. In a previous conflict with MM all would be revealed. He/She/It
has accused me of all the things specified in my post.
Just because they have forgotten does not mean we all have alzeimers.
Hey Marky Marky, own what you say and fight it out on the boards. No one likes whinger.
In re Stephen Galilee
Whatever the meeja says about whatshisname it will be treating him kindly. Words do not suffice to account the abominations that this being has wrought upon the nation.
Thanks, MayoFeral at 550.
I had thought ongoing medical costs etc, but assumed they were not included. Equipment and ammo? Support? Does the Senate Estimates do that? I suppose so, in Administration Defence, perhaps. So it is not the mere $2 Billion.
My thoughts on other costs are rather darker than that.
JV,
Do you have views on the industrial court generally?
{Perhaps Fran has confused her role models. Or is that she is trying to outdo Bronnie Bishop?}
Crikey, compared to Fran, Bronnie was wearing “sack-cloth”.
Lest we forget the condemnation of Howard and Costello’s economic performance last year:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/26/2044302.htm?section=australia
ANZ Bank chief economist Saul Eslake says the Federal Government should have made better use of the revenue it has made from Australia’s resources boom.
Mr Eslake has addressed the Australian British Chamber of Commerce and told the gathering the Government has spent or given away almost every single dollar associated with the windfall gains.
He says it has put upward pressure on interest rates and the money should have been used to address some of the national issues.
525
Diogenes
Thank you
ESJ,
Apparently, it should be decided on the blogosphere because there is no partisan opinion there.
GG turn from this path of destructive conflict and come to the light, keep hope alive. Yes we can!
And she also got chucked out of the chamber for an hour.
Probably gave her time to change her apparel and re-do her hair and make-up.
Bronnie wouldn’t want to be outshone by one of her own kind.
No worries about anyone much from the other side of the chamber though.
Especially Ralph’s new 2nd place pin-up, Julia.
ESJ,
Take stock,
I think you are channeling Bob the Builder.
Lets end the gridlock here at PB GG!
ESJ @ 558 [Do you have views on the industrial court generally?]
Do you mean whether it has been effective as an arbiter of industrial disputes? If so, yes I think it has been an accessible and effective place – the Court and the Commission. A practical specialist tribunal that I reckon has generally had the respect of workers and employers. Shame about the powers taken away from it recently though by you know who. Not sure how much it will get back from Rudd/Gillard either. For example I don’t know what the proposal will be for unfair dismissal cases, whether that will come back to the states. I must look that up -I guess something has been drafted.
The current President is about to finish up I hear. It will be interesting to see who the next Pres will be, or if any major changes are made given the opportunity.
ESJ
We need everyone to get with the program.
Labor therapy to follow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWKhYQarJU
Did anyone hear Prof Garnaut talking the radio this evening?
I had never heard him speak before, and at first I thought it was Richie Benaud (or the Twelfth Man?).
Do you think the State Govt will abolish the State IR Commission JV? V.interested in your view on this.
I love his site.
Is there anywhere that we coud get a report on what someone sounds like, rather than what they say?
We are blessed.
ESJ 570 – Hard to say for an outsider like me. But it still seems to have enough to do, and if more jurisdiction comes back to the states from the Gillard changes they probably won’t close it down. There have been rumours for a long time now about a new super tribunal subsuming many separate courts and tribunals but nothing has come of that so far. Things might now stay as they are for a while, what with the new mob in Canberra.
Why your keen interest if I may ask?
Unfortunately cannot expand JV due to legal reasons
Crikey Whitey @ 557 – The Yanks supply the ammo and charge it at the going rate, even if it old stock of dubious quality, same for the fuel.
On going medical costs aren’t included. As an aside, I’ve often wondered whether the military used to subsidise fags during wars because it lowers long term medical expenses given that smokers generally kick the bucket earlier (lung cancer is the cheapest serious illness/disease to treat because most patients die within a few weeks/months of diagnosis).
A for the $2 bill. add 50% and you’ll probably start getting close to the real figure give the nature of the deployment. The Americans are multiplying the base figure by about a factor of 5x, mostly because of the huge medical costs – especially for mental health – they’re going to be stuck with for perhaps 60-70 years. They’re also going to have to replace most of the army/USMC.Nat Guard’s equipment.
Dyno, i heard him and it was marvellous, actually it was a cracker.
ESJ 573 Fair enough, don’t risk revealing your true ID – there’s been enough outing of pbludgers lately has there not?
For sure, but I remember the thing that ESJ is referring too and he is right…was awhile ago, but MM went WAY too far… to paraphrase. “.ESJ promotes/is/supports the KKK”
No, E.S.J is right to “brace” over that one
I assume you missed it WB
I can’t be bugged to find it now…but it’s there… if you can…you’ll see
Fran has been channeling Barbara Cartland for a long time now.
Same passion for wearing pink, dyeing hair blonde, saturation make up…oh, and she’s into poorly written fiction as well.
Her car is pink (which was great pre election, looked good in the shots of her driving and talking on her mobile) and so were all her election fliers.
Try driving through McEwen sometime…lots of pink pictures of Fran looking, oh, twenty two or three, stuck on trees.
Urgghh.
ESJ
All I can say is you have a lot to understand at 577.
If i did which i highly doubt, provide the evidence, as i rarely get personal and if i did than i will apologise.
Pity the same can’t be said for GG who has already got personal tonight.
Willam i do wish we all could talk about serious issues.
The following is a commentary on Brad Norington’s Blog at the GG. This is one of the best posts I have seen for a long time. A bit long, but well worth the read.
{The about face on AWAs suggests the Liberal Party is returning to a more realistic and politically pragmatic approach. It is not before time. The recent Liberal Party has in no way reflected the founding values of moderation, consideration and inclusion that were espoused by the party in its formative years. The late 1980s and early 90s represented a watershed for conservative politics in Australia and the Anglophone West. Neo-Liberalism economic dogma was on the rise with its emphasis on privilege and power for the few and the ascendancy of “market forces” as the dominant force shaping all human outcomes. Work Choices and AWAs were manifestations of this narrow ideological world view. The Work Choices legislation was intended as a platform from which the labour market would be totally deregulated in keeping with the ideological imperative that “market forces” could only be effective if there were no checks and balances. And AWAs were to be the process by which this occurred.
The removal of Work Choices and the return of a more regulated and inclusive industrial policy is not going to cause massive unemployment and economic downturn. Something much more serious is going to do that. It is called declining productive capacity, and it has nothing to do with the hours Australians work (already some of the longest in the world). What is powering the Chinese and Indian economies? It is industrial productive capacity supported by an increasingly skilled workforce and that is what provides the basis of strength. The scourge of neo-liberal or “market forces” economic dogma has largely destroyed our industrial capacity and it is this that will have to be rebuilt. And it is in advanced high value, high skill technological industries that Australia’s future is to be found. Heavy industry (steel making and the like) have an important domestic role to play but in the global economy it is the high end of industrial production that we stand our best chance to reduce our utter dependency on mineral exports to sustain us. And Work Choices with its emphasis on the exploitation and degrading of the broader workforce is something that clearly was NOT the way for this country to go.}
Oh BTW, thanks to all that offered their bit re my request about aspartame. I passed the info on and was told “see, told ya” (sigh)… Mentioned what was said about Caffeine and received this—(beats lining Crystal)…
What can you say?… I suppose it does
I think my point was not only lost… I never even touched base
classified, would have helped, but have no idea of what is aspartame. Not lost, but beyond me. Except maybe an anagram.
CW at 553
Aspartame is an artificial sweetener. Think of it as a one-off pension payment, but for soft drinks, cakes, biscuits etc.
Marky Marky,
You can’t remember your previous abuse, so therefore it never happened.
How very Kennett of you.
I promise not to engage you again because you are a complete moron.
Oh God,
I think I have mixed my ESJ’s up with my GG’s. srry too all (although I will put in the effort to find the doobie I was refering too… re:MM)
But this will have to wait till tomorrow cos I’m exhausted … its going to be a all-night watch tonight I’m sure… my friend is teetering and I fear the abyss is near
it’s not the only thing yawning :stress:
I promise not to engage you again because you are a complete moron.
Cannot provide the evidence but instead denigrate me this sums you up Greensborough as to what kind of individual you are.
Like many other right wingers on this site who hate criticism of right wing policies they get personal with insults, this is how the right faction operates they accuse people of being this or that and rarely any of it is true.
Greensborough THIS DOES NOT REFER TO YOU okay.
Sigh, Scorpio. Admirable. I admired, too, the article in The Age, to which I referred earlier. If only I could be so analytical and erudite. Gosh, I nearly typed ‘head screwed on and golly’. Just smart enough to work out who to vote for and kind of why I would do so.
Fortunately for me, some better heads pull their words together. If not the acts of those who should be urged. Including the Pinko, apparently. How ironic.
Thanks, Chris in LDN. I will continue to avoid such things.
Right, MayoFeral. I reckon the multiplier should be a little higher, otherwise no question.
GG, you are being a highly disruptive pain in the arse.
Crikey Whitey Says: @ 588
{ I admired, too, the article in The Age, to which I referred earlier. }
I read that one too Crikey.
Seems as though there are still a couple of sensible, fair minded, intelligent Liberal (liberal) supporters out there.
It’s a pity that they seem to have been marginalised by more radical, right-wing, conservative elements who have hijacked the movement and controlled it for so long to the detriment of the country.
The notion of exploitation, borne out of the flawed and totally dismissed Marxist labour theory of value, is simply absurd.
The supply of labour is wholly voluntary, as is its withdrawal.
You’re right, GP – I can starve if I want to! What’s more, I can look my children in the eye and say “I know you’re dying of hunger, but I said I wouldn’t work under those conditions and I’m a person of principle. Get over yourselves.”
A spell in the real world would do you the world of good.
OMG, the end of the world just has to be nigh!
Nick Bolkus is ‘getting into bed’ with Lord Downer of Mayo. [swoon]
Apparently, he is the third partner of the business Dolly and Nat Stott Despoja’s hubby are setting up.
I blame Rudd! This would never have happened under Howard!
590 GP another exponent of the right to starve I see. Where do you get this crazy notion that if you don’t like your job just leave and live on nothing? Then you abuse anyone living on welfare.
591,
That is quite a ridiculous statement GG, totally divorced from the real world that we now inhabit, especially since 1996.
It may be the case that it is a voluntary decision in some respects for a worker to decide whether or not they seek work and who they decide to work for, but, for economic reasons as well as the fact that a worker does not qualify for any form of Social Security assistance if they voluntary decide to withdraw from the labour market or withdraw from their current employment.
A worker withdrawing their labour for whatever reason within employment, under current Employment Law, (and there doesn’t appear to be much change to this under Labor’s proposed Legislation) is subject to sanctions, whereas employers can withdraw a workers employment for whatever reason with the blessing of the State.
It all seems quite fair to you, GP, but not necessarily so to the majority of the community.
Hi Scorpio @ 595,
“That is quite a ridiculous statement GG, totally divorced from the real world that we now inhabit, especially since 1996.”
I often make ridiculous statements but not that one. GP owns 591.
Cheers.
It is a voluntary decision in ALL respects. There is nothing stopping a worker from withdrawing or supplying their labour at any time. Such action may have positive or negative consequences, but that is not the point.
597 [Such action may have positive or negative consequences, but that is not the point.]
It is the whole point GP and you know it.
525
Diogenes , I respect the notion that you are a qualified medical practitioner in some field of medicine.. I am not.
I find it hard to believe that you can make your sweeping statement that;
“Like all artificial substances, it has been blamed for almost every disease imaginable but none of the evidence is credible.”
Four years ago I was diagnosed with supposed “Atrial Fibrilation”. I will not go into the history of how it all came about but it certainly got me into researching all the likes of MSG and neurotoxins that I was able to over a long period.
Subsequently I followed the trail of Aspartame and all of its glorious history via Rumsfeld and the FDA including accessing documents submitted to the FDA by Senators etc etc. How it was engineered to get FDA approval using Rumsfeld is nothing more than a sick joke. That is one part of it that IMO says that it should not be on the market.
Additionally I have difficulty coming to terms with how people brush aside evidence that is put forward by persons with the qualifications of Dr Russell Blaycock MD who I believe is a very respected neurosurgeon in the US and I also believe that he has no ties to big Pharma.
I can not find any arguments that dispute that aspartame above 85 degrees F breaks down to; Extract from http://www.rense.com/general67/rum.htm
* All metabolites of aspartame (formaldehyde, methanol, diketopiperazine and formic acid)
I also can not believe that any of the above are good for the body in any quantities especially when some are cumulative.
The below paragraphs are also an extracts from the same site;
Neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D., one of the world’s leading authorities on aspartame neurotoxicity, extensively reviewed the Soffritti report. “This study confirmed the previous study by Dr. Trocho and co-workers (l998), which also found the formaldehyde breakdown product of aspartame to be damaging to cellular DNA and that this damage was cumulative. The type of damage was a duplicate of that associated with cancers. These two studies strongly indicate that drinking a single diet cola sweetened with aspartame every day could significantly increase one’s risk of developing a lymphoma or leukemia.”
Because Rumsfeld placed politics above public health and safety, hundreds of millions of people throughout the world cannot think clearly and suffer from a variety of chronic illnesses. It is, therefore, fitting that symptoms associated with aspartame use be known as “Rumsfeld,s disease.”
I believe that we will hear a lot more about aspartame in the coming years.
Hi all
Roy Orbison #513
[1) Irag - we’re out]: We’re only taking out the troops in or around Basra I believe it is. Purely symbolic.
[2) Stolen Generation - kissed and made up] Good on Rudd for this one but a sorry is empty without deeds! Let us not reinstate the permit system.
[3) Workchices - gone (along with some Liberal credibility)] Lol, not true, Howard won this one and he did it by sacrifincing his government. http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/08/28/rudd-clarifies-the-ir-policy/
[4) Kyoto - signed] Symbolic we were going to meet it anyway. We contribute whay 0.5% in emissions on a global scale? I must say I’m surprised JWH didn’t sign it as it would have meant Labor would have had less amunition to use against him.
[And we haven’t even used up the first two weeks! There is not much more that JWH stood for, if you exclude squatting at Kirribilli. Oh - that’s gone too.] JWH believed in offering people choice.
[You’ve got a lot to be angry about, JOM.] What for?
I agree with John of Melbourne.
Much of Rudd’s cherished “achievements” have thus far been exercises in self-aggrandising symbolism.
601 [I agree with John of Melbourne.]
The day you don’t agree with JOM is when something newsworthy has happened. I’m sure you’d agree with anyone suggesting Julie is fighting for the Liberal Leadership too. Is there anybody left who doesn’t think they can beat Mr 9%.
http://www.newmatilda.com/2008/02/21/bishop-waiting
Cheers GP
Brendan Nelson will be an awesome Coalition leader just give him time.
599 gaffhook-I think there are a couple of hundred thousand Iraqis who have died of Rumseld’s disease already!
There are always differing interpretations of data. I tend to favour looking at large population studies to determine what is a reasonable opinion. There have been two large population studies that have failed to demonstrate a link between aspartame and cancer.
“A study published in April 2006 sponsored by the National Cancer Institute involved 340,045 men and 226,945 women, ages 50 to 69, found no statistically significant link between aspartame consumption and leukemias, lymphomas or brain tumors.”
That is a very large study. While there is a saying “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”, I think that if there was a link, it would have to be tiny.
Doctors are a sceptical bunch and it takes a lot to convince us of almost anything, but we are also human with children and would certainly not ignore compelling evidence.
603 [Brendan Nelson will be an awesome Coalition leader just give him time.]
What more do you want JOM? Nelson is already breaking records.
Greeensborough Growler Says: @ 596
So true GG, so very true.
Generic Person Says: @ 597,
Very well said, GG. There is absolutely no point in your original and subsequent posts.
Maybe if you took the time to do a bit of surfing of news sites and then a bit of research, you could possibly come up with something a bit more substantive and engaging than your latest efforts which are just piggy-backing onto other peoples posts in a vain attempt to appear intelligent and well informed.
At the same time it shows a vindictive streak and a propensity to use shallow points to try and undermine the posts of others without any passable attempt to put forward any substantive points or argument whatsoever.
I am sure you are capable of that, but you seem to tend to take the easy way out to try and get enjoyment at others expense.
Unfortunately, it is like standing in front of a mirror. It is reflecting back on you and not very kindly either. There are a couple more posters here who that would apply to also, by the way. I look forward to an improvement in this regard.
name names scorpio
dont be shy
No 607
Scorpio, it would be wise to get off your high horse. When I have bothered to provide detailed commentary, often it is quickly dismissed as fascist propaganda. Naturally I will refrain from bothering too much as a result.
Scorpio @ 607.
Oops you did it again, I think!
scorps has had a “britney moment” has he GG?
609[ When I have bothered to provide detailed commentary, often it is quickly dismissed as fascist propaganda.]
Hopefully you will learn from the experience and try something more successful, GP.
No 612
LOL steve. If you think I’m going to proffer left wing apologism instead, you are sadly mistaken.
613 GP It’s a pretty basic principle I’d have thought that if you are not getting the response you expected do something different. More of the same is guaranteed to get you more of the same result. If that is really what you want , then don’t whinge .
No 614
Oh, so it’s okay for others of leftist ilk to whinge, but not me.
The hypocrisy.
Generic Person Says: @ 615,
Poor old Generic Possum. I’m on your side here. These terrible leftist rogues all having a great old whinge and not being charitable enough to allow GP the honour of an occasional whinge.
It’s quite clear from observing your posts over some time now that some leeway must be provided to you GP.
Due to the constant lack of substance to your arguments and rebuttal, coupled with a lack of any recognition of substantive, well supported arguments put forward by others, that the only avenue available to you to try and appear relevant, is to have a good old fashioned whinge.
You go right ahead champ and whinge all you like. It is far better than seeing those leftist scum being challenged by thoughtful, well constructed argument.
And, far more entertaining.
Has there ever been a worse DPP than Leanne Clare? How many times can one person stuff up before being sacked? I realise the Labor Government seem to like having a political puppet but even they must be embarrassed by now.
Scott Volkers, Pauline Hanson, Di Fingleton, Chris Hurley, Jayan Patel… Where does it end?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23252106-12377,00.html
617 [Queensland Liberal leader Mark McArdle today called for Director of Public Prosecutions Leanne Clare to be sacked over the delay.]
Bit rich coming from him, McCardle couldn’t call for a taxi and get a response.
Look what happens if people have poor Federal representation.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/pauline-made-me-do-it-says-new-mp/2008/02/21/1203467247795.html
617 Diogenes, It strikes me as remarkable the Queensland Libs would call for the sacking of the DPP the day that that it is claimed Patel’s arrest is imminent. Masters of timing they are.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23252152-2,00.html
steve-With Leanne Clare prosecuting, it doesn’t really matter if he comes back or not. She’ll stuff the case up and he’ll ge off anyway.
Kirribilli………..
I was dead certain that during question time today that JG was about to say ‘we have had flip, flop, and flap and now you have “fluffed” it but she said “fuddled”.
“Buggar!”
KUst saw a preview on ABC 1 re Austrfalian Story next Monday featuring Nicole Cornes.
Should be interesting to watch.
that should read Just
Frank Calabrese at 623, I noticed that promo for Nicole, following last week’s Australian Story.
Looking forward to it. I am personally so sad about Boothby. Each of us, counted out. Nicole included.
Nicole was a decent candidate. Not only because, as I think, Diogenes, mentioned, that she is particularly striking in person. If that is what matters, even more must the ALP be held responsible. Should have promoted the poster girl much earlier, in that case.
My ALP must hold itself responsible, because the ALP did not bother to address the seat of Boothby, for years and years and years and in the case of any candidate in 2007, left it so late and so woefully prepared Nicole for her first press appearance, that they have themselves to blame and we in Boothby can, and do, blame them for a particularly cavalier approach to the quite good chance of winning the seat.
Nicole is personable, interested in doing her best for the electorate, has experience of life in quite challenging circumstance and leads it still.
She is, in many ways, the exemplar of what Liberal philosophy used to mean.
She is one of those who realised, and said, that she turned towards Labor, because Labor was attuned to her principles. That she identified with the ambitions that Kevin Rudd represented.
regarding King Mal
http://business.smh.com.au/williams-to-testify-against-adler/20080221-1tp3.html
‘Mr McGrath’s suit, which names nine defendants, alleges that FAI’s true financial position was concealed when HIH bought it.’
“Other defendants include investment bank Goldman Sachs Australia, which advised FAI in 1998, and its then executive chairman and the current federal shadow treasurer, Malcolm Turnbull.”
Hmm,might be a reference point next time he prattles about finacial manangement and responsibility.
Put it up on the “Dennis” thread, gus.
It should stimulate some discussion.
New thread up on Morgan leadership poll. With two other current federal politics threads to choose from, I’m closing this one.