The last significant presidential primaries until March 4 will be held tomorrow our time: primaries in Wisconsin and Washington for both parties, plus caucuses in Hawaii for the Democrats. Discuss them at your leisure here.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Washington, Wisconsin, Hawaii
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868 Comments
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748
jen
It’s time (where’ve we heard that, again?) for a breath of fresh air in Washington, and there’s a population that’s gasping for a lungfull of it.
Whatever Obama turns out to be (and sure, there’s plenty of expectations which are impossibly high), he will be a breath of fresh air, and someone who most of America will be proud of and who will get a lot more respect from the rest of the world.
Their country is really in a mess, and he can only begin the process of fixing it, but he’s got a population that overwhelmingly thinks the Republicans have trashed the place and are prepared to try some new ideas.
It’s a good place from which to start.
Here’s a coincidence. Dick Cheney and Barack Obama are related (eighth cousins).
Obama camp responds to revelation: ‘Every family has a black sheep’!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21340764/
And John Kerry is also George Bush’s eighth cousin as well.
“snake oil salesman” was a swiftboat introduced by my ‘ESJ friend’ to sneer at Obama but he had the audacity to then try and bury it into a history lesson arguing declining Empires in the past have turned to this type
hence my #731 blog
However alot naster swiftboat smears will be directed at Obama in the future
The young and the inspired will take no swiftboat notice and they didn’t when Howard tried it against Rudd. They will out in droves to support Obama but the 45 to 60 group he now only splits he’ll need to respond to some ofthe swiftboats
Diogenes, no slight intended. Please check between the
—————
—————s.
My reference was to MSM fundies, eg. Billo and Drudge et al. using the snake oil sledge. Quite honestly, can’t ever remember anything that you’ve written that I’ve ever wanted to seriously take to task. We’re on the same side here, Doc. We both mention the Messiah/snake oil thing, but the rabid Right have been bangin’ on about it for quite a while now.
The *hand* I refer to in my last opening was my own, as in Darryl Kerrigan in the film The Castle….the classic line that his family used on Darryl when he was getting a bit carried away with himself:
“Get yer hand off it, Darryl”
I was being self-deprecating at my own expense not yours, Doc.
My understaning of the asterisk “quotes”,
eg * does something*
is that it referrred to the person who was commenting. At least that’s the way I understood it worked at sites like LP. So, sorry for any misunderstanding.
———————————
Quote of the Day
“I’m the insurgent — she’s the champ… If you’re the title holder, then you don’t lose it on points. You got to be knocked out.”
– Sen. Barack Obama, quoted by CNN.
Obi’s quote is brilliant. Every one of the 5 phrases “works” for him, especially the first. It deftly snuffs the Obama/Osama bullsh-it, and it neuters the beat-up baloney about his middle name, Hussein.
Sensational!
752
Diogenes
Very old news Dio, but funny as in ’small world’, huh?
Gotta say, Obama is a class act, and as much as Hillary is a great policy wonk, she ain’t got his mojo.
And speaking of swiftboating, looks like Camp McCain is getting a fair share of it at the moment.
Ironic, huh?
KR, you can either call Adam “some puffed up academic who spends his entire life tabulating polling results”, or you can say “never once I did I see anyone on this blog return the favour and offer anything but their opinions in return, despite the derogatory remarks”. Not both.
753
Ron
’sneer’ is so apposite, and goes well with ’snide’. For an ugly little troll that contributes virtually nothing but petty insults and waves his pretend ‘erudition’ around, he’s got a very high opinion of himself, eh?
God knows why, ‘coz he’s just a little creepy stalker on this blog, as we all have seen, over and over.
KR-
Don’t Start!!!
you’ll just bring him out of his hole.
And to be fair to the Great Dr Carr, I think he did apologise somewhere, and admit that he was wrong -but only because the voters were misguided.
KR, how long do we have to wait until your next piece of self-congratulation for being above personal abuse?
KirriR
I have had my disagreements with Adam but I must say you wouldnt even measure up to his jockstrap.
Jen,
Try a little argument for a change. Intolerance does not amount to policy.
Dear Sweet Ron,
Keep the dream alive.
754 ec- No worries. Just checkin’.
On the “snake-oil salesman”, I did a google search for the exact phrase “X is a snake oil salesman” and got the following matches:
Obama 902
Clinton 2 (and both were for Bill not Hillary)
Bush 4
McCain 0
Romney 677
Huckabee 614
Rudd 3
Howard 0
So Obama, Romney and Huckabee score very highly, while Bush, Macca and both Clinton’s are essentially zero. I can see why Huck gets the tag due to his folksy, wacky manner. But characteristics do Obama and Romney have in common to get them the label “snake-oil salesman”?
Kirri -
warned you.
KR – In the words of Bob Dylan:
In the dime stores and bus stations,
People talk of situations,
Read books, repeat quotations,
Draw conclusions on the wall.
Some speak of the future,
My love she speaks softly,
My love winks, she does not bother,
She knows too much to argue or to judge.
761 Diogs-
they both have an ‘o’ and an ‘a’ in their names?
Talking of class acts and appologies – I’m assuming your all familiar with the apology earlier today from Hillary on behalf of Bill’s racial innuendoes back during the South Carolina context:
Clearly, both ESJ and our mate John Howard could take a leaf out of Hillary’s campaign as a lesson in the art of the delivery of a deniable apology for something that may or may-not of happened, intended or otherwise, impacting an audience that may or may not have been listening.
Jen,
You know for someone who lovelingly regaled everyone last year with her personal details in conversation with Adam I did think it was somewhat rich for you to complain about me commenting on your senate photo but you expressed your upset and I happily apologised.
But for someone who is so personally precious you seem to have a fine line in being personally offensive and making patronising comments about others who do not fit into your myopic inner city world view. Almost of your posts has a patronising putdown or adjective.
Like most Greens when you are challenged you get offended and seem to happily go in for the boot when a person (like Adam) is not around.
Get a life Jen
Tell me davidoff what do I have to apologise for?
Oh Eddy -
I think we’ve been over (and over) why I didn’t like you commenting on my appearnace -(ie: what is the relevance to the discussion), but if I have hurt your feelings by being mean then I’m sorry, and I promise I will try and get a life.
BTW – my “personal details” were that I was a senate candidate in Victoria.
Thank you making that well-timed obnoxious comment, ESJ. A welcome opportunity for me to demonstate my even-handedness by slapping you down as well. In particular, it won’t do for you to congratulate yourself for having apologised while simultaneously stoking up the argument again.
759
William Bowe
I love giving it back from whence it’s eminated! LOL
No Jen,
I think you have revealed a bit more than that on this blog and secondly you challenged me on whether I had seen your senate photo.
As to what you post its your business but you might be taken more seriously if you actually were a bit more critical and analytical in your posts.
Take Ron since he has been on this blog he has gone from a strong Howard backer to an Obama backer through the cut and thrust of argument.
But WB, it’s just getting exciting. More exciting than the effing Cricket and Football on at the moment. Oop, Newcastle just scored a fantastic goal.
William as Richard Russell (the leader of the Southern Democrats) said to LBJ when he introduced the Civil Rights Act and I paraphrase , If I have to get a whipping I would want to be from you Lyndon.
762
jen
Thanks jen, I’ll watch out for the usual quality of Teddy Snidely Sneers ‘put downs’, they are amusing little efforts.
#767
ESJ said …
This is difficult, because the more I think about the subject the more I end up in the pro-life pro-choice debate. While I haven’t reached a definitive conclusion – for the moment I’m siding with the pro-choice camp. I guess the important point here at this moment is that if I project forward my current line of thinking it basically is kind of a good outcome for you – in that you don’t need to apologise, but is your mother ready to take the consequence that this line of thought leads to – and that’s pushing back to the pro life camp – because at the end of the day – I don’t really want to give your mother a hard time and I figure individual who stuff up should be accountable for their actions – but that just takes me back to the same debate – was it Eddi, was it Eddi’s mother?
Oop, Lee just LBW Tendulkar
ESJ-
fair enough, but the election here is over and I think I do , on the odd occasion, try and give a comment about why I have particular political views.
They may not always be “highbrow”, but then I’m just a plain old member of society when it gets down to it. (Although, I did give a great speech in Wangaratta on Thursday, even if I say so myself, so I reckon I contribute plenty). And I do like the odd stoush given that like Finns, I can’t stand the bloody cricket. But you’re right ,- memo to self: Get Life.
758
jen
I think you are referring to the post that went (paraphrasing here): I’m sorry, but the Democrats are throwing away their chance to beat McCain.
Or some such thing.
Don’t hold your breath for an apology for being an ‘ignorant loathing leftie’ or better, one of the ‘elite commentariat’ (hmm, sounds like something one of Howard’s Kulture Vultures would say, eh?).
We can let the outcome speak for itself, but let’s not forget the gratuitous insults along the way, for they make the little victories so much more enjoyable! LOL
William,
Fair’s fair, its your blog and you set the rules but I would say that last blog from Davidoff was beyond the pale.
#780
ROTFLOL
Well Kirri,
luckily for him he has Eddy to champion him.
(not sure how he would feel about that actually…)
William? Any response?
ESJ’s right Davidoff, that was an extremely childish comment.
If anyone was offended by anything that was said, whether it was meant or not, or misinterpreted or not, then obviously, I regret that.
Off to the naughty corner with you, davidoff.
785
what about compensation then??
Weak as piss, Davidoff.
William,
If you want to demonstrate your even handedness you will delete that post of Davidoff’s NOW!
784
William Bowe
But quite funny, nevertheless.
There was a similar exchange by some recent Australian politicians where one said the other’s mother had failed to exercise ‘choice’.
No doubt the usual suspect will come up with chapter and verse, asking for a pat on the head.
#789
And there was I thinking it was one of my better posts.
Shame on me!
791 davidoff.
you need to get a life too obviously.
Do we get them cheaper if we buy 2?
ESJ, your right to plead hurt feelings is not all it might be. Besides, it’s too late to make any difference now. And please don’t bark orders at me, whatever the circumstances.
789 [If you want to demonstrate your even handedness you will delete that post of Davidoff’s NOW!]
ESJ when did you develop such a thin skin?
Jen,
I dont believe anybody on this blog has suggested that you should have been aborted as yet.
Ha Ha – its such a hoot isnt it? What a laugh!
Just to annoy everyone, I’m going to back ESJ’s theory vs Ron et al regarding people in failing empires flocking to false prophets (I’m not going anywhere near the current one and I’m not referring to Obama).
I don’t know enough history to back it up that way but there is a lot of psychological research to support it.
It has repeatedly been shown that people under adverse circumstances especially stress act differently to those who are comfortable. They are more likely to:
- make decisions based on less pieces of information
- ignore dissenting information
- refuse to change their opinions
- show increasing irrational behaviour even when the irrational behaviour is what is causing their poor circumstances
- embrace irrational opinions
A common example is from many civilisations who understand the world using religious beliefs. When there is a famine etc, their usual response is to increase the sacrifices, prayers etc to try and turn things around.
Hey Zino, don’t you dare go and ‘get a life’ until November!
I for one get so much information collated in one place, you save me heaps of time pulling in the polls and interesting press articles.
As for the failed tory trolls, they’re nothing short of amusing. They were wrong then, and they’re wrong now.
And they still hang around here trying to prove they aren’t! LOL
Talk about having problems!
796
Diogenes
It’s the old Aztec principle: Kill a few more kids and everything will be alright.
Modern equivalent: Send a few more kids to Iraq, and everything will be alright.
Same result, however.
797 kirri
Does zino have to get a life too?
We might get a really good deal for bulk purchases.
731
Ron Says:
February 24th, 2008 at 11:08 am this morning
In the context of the US Election , swiftboating have labelled Obama as a ’snake oil salesman’…….he’ll be called much worse between now & November.
The suggestion that an Obama inspirational type is a snake oil salesman & this type is PECULAR to a decline in an Empire or that people in a declining Empire find this type especially appealing is wrong. Its faiirly ordinary ’swiftboating’
Brilliant inspirational type Leaders like Obama WHENEVER they appear on the scene are always appealing to the masses and often gain power WHATEVER stage an Empire or civilisation is at.
Ron now says tonight:
The art of ’swiftboating is to meld SOME SELECTIVE historical truth into creating doubt about a political opponent this time Obama and the mising of some history with “snake oil salesman” WAS SWIFT BOATING….an amateurish at that
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