The latest face-to-face Morgan poll shows Labor breaking its record result of a few weeks ago. It now leads 56.5 per cent to 31.5 per cent on the primary vote and 64.5-35.5 on two-party preferred. Morgan also presents us with qualitative findings on perceptions of the two leaders, which gives a strong impression that Brendan Nelson failed to please anybody in attempting to have two bob each way on the stolen generations apology.
Other news:
• The AEC has commenced redistribution proceedings for Western Australia and the Northern Territory. It is likely that no change will be required for the latter; the outlook for the former was earlier canvassed here.
• A transcript of a High Court hearing regarding Labor’s appeal against Fran Bailey’s win in McEwen has been published, the upshot of which appears to be that the matter will be heard in the Federal Court late next month.
690 Comments
i should go first here as I broke the news!!
can anyone tell me if this is a record result
I can, Andrew. In fact, I already have.
Nelson’s honeymoon is over.
Don’t know if any of you caught Keating’s letter in The Australian today but it was the biggest load of hypocritical tripe that I’ve had the displeasure of reading.
Just like the old saying goes, “records are made to be broken”.
I wonder though, just how high can they go, or in the case of the Libs, how low can they go.
They (the Libs) are certainly trying hard enough.
bloody hell
wipeout
Rudd is approaching omniscience. I reckon he could walk on water at the moment.
Kina says:
“Nelson’s honeymoon is over”
When will the divorce proceedings begin?
*Trying to change the subject GP? Good luck with that.
64.5 up 12% from Election result anyone for a DD or a few by-elections!
Not trying to change the subject. Such wildly favourable polls for the government are to be expected within the first year or so of a victorious election.
GP, yes but that bad
4 Generic Person – I read it and thought that no conservative supporter is going to like this and, GP, surprise, surprise you hate it. That must mean he wiped the floor with her and he did.
No. 10
What’s your point Mexican Beemer? I don’t why there is such a fuss about these polls. They are only instructive when an election is nearing.
Keating’s letter in the Neocon Manifesto is the best thing I have read all year. In just a few words, he has undone JA to her bare bones. With supporters like JA there is no wonder that LNP has a primary vote of 31.5%. Keep it up Janet and we will end up with one party rule!
9 Generic Person – True but these are record numbers, even bettering Howard in 1996, I’m suspecting by a long way too.
William, was the previous record 64 and when was it achieved??
No. 11
It’s not about the left vs right debate, it’s the simple fact that here is a man chastising Ms Albrechtsen for her “tawdry name-calling” and yet in the next line labels her a “loony tune” and a “no-talent proselytiser”.
Even I can laugh uncontrollably at some of Keating’s acerbic commentary, but his latest escapade is demonstrative of a politician from a bygone era grasping for relevance.
So happy was Australia, when it gave Mr Keating the pink slip he so well deserved.
I think after the polling last year, we can safely say that these polls are not even instructive when an election is nearing… so let’s enjoy each one for it’s unique charms and lovable eccentricities.
Gotta love 35.5% two-party preferred, though…
GP, if you could please produce a similar poll three months post Howard’s win in 1996, I’ll stop gloating
No. 14
Record or not, they are not particularly instructive given that the government is still very new and hasn’t had to make polarising and tough decisions.
Also, Howard was much older than Rudd when he was elected in 1996 and also less charismatic. Not that Rudd is a bastion of charisma.
16 Generic Person – Oh, I see. So his hypocritical name calling negates all his other valid points does it? The fact that you can’t stand him and he was a Labor PM has absolutely nothing to do with your final remark? Pull the other one GP.
Andos, a major difference now is that it is the GOVERNMENT that is up by so much. When the opposition has a big lead the general consensus is that the government can claw back ground due to the benefits of incumbency
GP, with all due respect, all I want to hear from you is your Howard poll figures
A good example of how to destroy your own argument in one sentence. “Also, Howard was much older than Rudd when he was elected in 1996 and also less charismatic. NOT that Rudd is a bastion of charisma.”
Wouldnt it be great though if a conservative blogger just said “look, this poll is diabolical, this is what I think the Coalition need to do etc etc”
No. 20
I don’t agree with Mr Keating, but respect his right an opinion. However, if he is going to challenge someone for having non-reasoned arguments, then it is slightly absurd to imbue his response with such unbridled hypocrisy.
I also find it difficult to stomach his assertion that we should all be beacons of cosmopolitan tolerance whilst he is simultaneously demanding that the Australian suppress difference of opinion.
Hello all
It’s been a month or so. Where’s Stephen Kaye? I miss him.
Hey there folks!
This is a positive happy happy joy joy thread, don’t let the troll take the gloss off!
Everybody dance now! I am!
24 Andrew – what you are witnessing is the same blind loyalty that cost the Libs the election. The Libs stuck with their disastrous IR policy knowing it was as popular as a shark in a swimming pool (cleaned that one up).
GP @ 19 – can you define a “polarising” and “tough” decision for us?
Polarising – within Cabinet? Within the Labor caucus? Within Parliament between the parties? Between sections of the community at large?
Tough – tough as in a decision they had to think long and hard about, could negatively affect people, and/or might cause some political fallout?
I would’ve thought the apology would count as at least a somewhat polarising decision, though I don’t think it was that tough for them to make. Maybe if you put up some examples of what you were talking about, it’d help. Cheers.
No. 24
Andrew, the Liberals have reversed their support for Workchoices, they’ve supported the Apology and so forth. Indeed, the party’s policy platform has changed considerably from the Howard era.
These wildly favourable polls for the government are simply a product of honeymoons. You’d be naive in the extreme to think these numbers could last indefinitely.
No. 28
My definition is largely as you already described.
The fact is, in opposition it is possible to be all things to all people. In government that isn’t the case.
Notice the toned down rhetoric on health, on petrol prices, on grocery prices and so forth.
I’m not saying that Rudd isn’t popular, I’m merely saying that the realities of government will soon change the poll results. Rudd isn’t immune from this. It’s happened to every government prior to him.
GP (25) – “However, if he is going to challenge someone for having non-reasoned arguments, then it is slightly absurd to imbue his response with such unbridled hypocrisy.” This still doesn’t mean he was wrong about her.
“…whilst he is simultaneously demanding that the Australian suppress difference of opinion.” Gross generalisation. He wasn’t suggesting that at all. He suggested SHE move on. Big difference.
Pride and fall lads. remember the connection. Still, it’s all right to crack a wee smile, I suppose…
GP again please produce the Howard poll numbers, and whilst you are at it please indicate where anybody said these poll numbers could last indefinately
No. 4 – you mean you’ve stopped reading your own posts?:)
I’m waiting for Glen to come on an d utter his immortal phrase “Bullbutter”
No. 31
I quote from the article Gary, if you don’t believe me:
That’s not him suggesting she move on, it’s him suggesting that the paper give her the flick.
No 19.
Yes because dismantling Howard’s flawed policies in relation to Iraq, Aboriginal reconciliation, Workchoices is no longer polarising nor tough given the Liberals can barely scrape a 36.5% 2PP and have their entire ex-front bench moving to greener pastures.
What’s the objection to that, GP? Keating’s only problem in this article was that he didn’t elaborate on Albrechtsen’s status as an uber-elite.
Basically the Oz bet heavily on the Howard era going on forever and loss. Now it has a paper full of cranks who either have tried desparately to appear as if they are behind the Rudd agenda or have gripped onto the old status quo (kind of like the coalition backbench)
Albrechtsen was a cheerleader for the Howard agenda. He’s gone. So she now has no useful purpose. Keating’s call is on the money.
No. 38
I’ve already stated my objection, Dinsdale.
No. 29
Yes Rudd had an extremely long honeymoon period as opposition leader.
Given the depth of denial of the hard core right wingers, lets see how long this record breaking honeymoon period can continue.
Watch the rabid right wing commentators finally get what they deserve. Ridicule and the sack.
36 Generic Person – Yeah. So? It still not what you were suggesting ie “…whilst he is simultaneously demanding that the Australian suppress difference of opinion.” He says that the Australian should get rid of HER. Still a big difference.
Oh Gary, you’re too funny.
He’s demanding her sacking because he can’t stand her opposite opinion. Just accept it.
Understandable, given his support for despotic dictators like Soeharto.
Are you saying Janet is the only anti Labor, anti Keating commentator in the Australian? It sounds like it. That is what your comment suggests.
I predicted Howard’s selfishness would lead to the political oblivion of the Liberal party.
Now as we watch the rats leaving the sinking ship, the Liberals only have one real opportunity for survival. Remake the entire Liberal party back into what it was in Menzies time, trash the Howard legacy and leave the remnants of it in the dustbin of history.
The Liberals only ‘mythological’ strength was economic management. With a new government in power, this myth has been comprehensively dispelled. No wonder they are in such deep trouble.
Out of all the current leaders, I believe only Malcolm Turnbull has the ability to start the long-term process of reviving the Liberals. The longer Brendan Nelson stays, the worse it will get.
This will be a demoralising poll for the Opposition, on top of everything else working against them at the moment.
I can see Brendan Nelson happy (or at least relieved) to pass on the poisoned chalice .. but why would anyone want to take it.
Another big problem for the Liberals, is that their main support base is in the over 65′s. They lost the youth and middle aged vote under Howard. Over the long run, this will be devastating to the Liberals.
“He’s demanding her sacking because he can’t stand her opposite opinion. Just accept it.” Keating copped a lot from her over the years and said nothing. He’s not suggesting every anti Labor / anti Keating commentator at The Australian be sacked, which is what your argument is suggesting. You are wrong accept it.
It amazes me that Generic Person still gets so many bites on his well baited hooks. Seriously, everyone here knows how GP argues, and the fact that there is no possible way to change their opinion. Why do you all still bite instead of doing the only sensible thing, and ignore them?
I guess it is fun to watch Generic Person simultaneously take on a whole message board at once…
No. 46
Asanque, the party has changed considerably since the Menzies era. I hope you aren’t suggesting a return to extreme economic protection and re-regulated financial systems as well as a White Australia Policy.
Here is some great news for the Nicole Cornes fans here.
Nicole Cornes’ abuse nightmare over – molester’s appeal dismissed
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23296578-5006301,00.html
No. 50
I find that astonishingly hypocritical Andos. Don’t pretend that you’re willing to change your opinion of the Libs.
No. 52
Actually, my opinion of Ms Cornes changed quite a lot after watching Australian Story on Monday.
Despicable treatment by the media and the ALP!
Did I even mention the Liberal party? No, I didn’t.
You didn’t have to Andos.
GP @ 30 – I think the wires have got a bit crossed here. I was offering some possibilities for where the line could be drawn on what counts as a polarising and/or tough decision, and was asking where you would draw said line. Or did you mean that any (or all) of those suggestions I put forth could fit?
In any event, the main thing I was getting at was your statement in post #19 that the government hasn’t had to make any polarising and tough decisions, which might be why (particularly in light of your response @ 30) the numbers will come down. Personally, I think the apology, and the ratification of Kyoto, were two decisions/actions that could’ve negatively affected the poll numbers, although it seems like they haven’t. While both decisions may have been symbolic to a greater or lesser extent (Kyoto moreso, IMO), I put them forward as two examples of decisions that could’ve polarised the community and thus affected poll numbers.
Personally, I think this reflects more than just a honeymoon effect for a new Government. I could see that there’d be at least two additional factors at work here – 1) Morgan, in the last 12 months or so that I’ve looked at it, has always seemed to be high for Labor, and 2) the performance of the Coalition in Opposition, and Brendan Nelson in particular. Putting aside any link to the election result for a moment, it’s possible that the movement upwards of the ALP vote reflects a condemnation of Nelson/Coalition as much as any approval of Rudd/Labor. GP, I’m willing to allow that the numbers will most likely narrow as the government has to make more decisions, but I don’t think they’ll narrow much unless the Opposition picks their act up.
No 51
I didn’t realise those were true liberal values
Gary Bruce at 24. Youve a got a good point. Rather than get frustrated at the Libs denial/ lack of insight, we should be happy about it. It will increase the their number of terms of opposition!!
50 Andos – You’re a spoiled sport. It’s fun shooting down these simplistic arguments. There’s no fun arguing with you. I usually agree with most people here. How is that fun?
Like I said, GP, you only hear what you want to hear. That’s why there’s no point talking to you.
The problem with shooting down GP’s simplistic arguments is the fact that this has little effect whatsoever on the conversation. You know GP’s wrong, I know GP’s wrong, but does GP care? Not in the slightest…
No 58
They were the values of all political parties for seventy years.
No. 62
Saying I’m wrong without any substantiation is hardly helpful to your cause Andos.
STOP GLOATING!!THIS IS BAD NEWS PEOPLE. THINK IT THROUGH!!
I agree with GP that these early post-election polls are almost always meaningless but this one might not be for one reason. The poll may well be tested in William’s Super Saturday scenario of a glut of Lib by-elections. That polling, if translated to a swing in each seat, would amount to the loss of Mayo, Higgins and Gippsland. The poor poll may mean we are stuck with Cossie and Dolly for longer until the polls turn around!!! And that may take forever.
No. 65
Yes, there is merit to your argument. I would agree that the polls are correct if the Liberal Party loses the forthcoming by-elections.
Diogenes @ 65 – Thanks for a good laugh
However, I feel the need to point out that for that to happen, you’d have to assume Costello, Downer et al. would put their personal plans on hold and hang around for the benefit of the party. Perhaps I’m judging them too harshly, but I doubt they’re that selfless.
I forgot – also, the swings weren’t uniform at the last election. From the 2004 – 2007 election, there was, what, a 5.something % swing to Labor? Costello only took about a 1.7% hit in Higgins, if I recall. So even though these numbers might show a 10-12% swing generally, which would be enough to take Higgins (and more), it might not translate into that much at the actual seat level.
Conversely, of course, it could translate into more if the “personal vote” of the retiring members were taken into account.
GP at 66 youve come close to a reasonable point for once, except that this is a national poll not one done in those specific seats
Labor has increased its primary by 2.5, taking 1.5% from the Coalition and 1% from the Greens.
In my opinion, two things are happening. Firstly, some Greens supporters shifted to the Labor side after the Stolen Generation Apology. They will probably swing back to the Greens in the next couple of months.
Secondly, the Coalition lost more support because they have had nothing positive to say about anything. They appear wishy-washy. They were pro-WorkChoices, then anti-WorkChoices, then pro-Workchoices again, before finally becoming anti-WorkChoices. They supported the apology without qualification according to Nelson, but then a heap of Libs comdemned it. They also can’t seem to find their feet on climate change, had difficulty with Kyoto, and on and on it goes. In short, voters out there see a party that has no platform, no clear direction, little strength, and lacking leadership. It’s a mess.
So, is it any wonder that some more wavering Coalition supporters have shifted to the other side? The Coalition inspires zero confidence. Only the MOST faithful will stay now, hoping to God that the party gets itself organised.
The Coalition is a victim of the new order politics. They can’t cope in a bipartisan, inclusive environment because for eleven years, they have only learnt to survive and thrive on Rovian-style divide-and-rule tactics. Being focused on real solutions that pull the entire country together is anathema to their current brand of politics because it doesn’t give them the space they need to whip up fear campaigns and encourage and exploit human selfishness.
And the funny thing about all of this is that, on the one hand, we could think of Rudd as a master tactician by using bipartisanship and unity as a weapon against the Coalition, but on the other, Rudd is really just doing the RIGHT thing, that is the more respectful, inclusive, solutions-focused thing. Funny that this is like poison to the Coalition side of politics…
I think GP’s argument is correct. If there are a couple of by-elections, these polls move from perception to reality and it would be infinitely more damaging to lose three safe Liberal seats than one silly Morgan poll. I can’t imagine Cossie and Dolly would be allowed to let that happen, as they’d be leaving the party on very poor terms. I guess we’ll see how committed they are to the party.
No. 70
Noocat, it is reasonable to expect the Coalition to be in a mess. They were tossed out of government with a substantial swing against them. The Labor party was a mess before Rudd arrived on scene.
In the immediate aftermath of election losses, it is a period of rebuilding, consolidating and reality-checks. Of course, I am disappointed that the Libs lost, but to expect them to be perfect in opposition so soon after their loss is naive and a bit rich.
Personally I’d be quite happy if Dolly was forced to languish on the backbench for the whole term of parliament. He obviously considers it far beneath his dignity to be a mere backbencher. My opinion of him has managed to sink since the election which I didn’t think was possible.
MPs retiring halfway through the term really annoys me too. They’ve signed up for three years they should stick around barring some good reason like ill health. They shouldn’t be able to quit because they don’t feel like playing any more.
If Kevin Michael Rudd can now ‘walk on water’ (at least, figuratively speaking), then there is no doubt that his shadow cannot. But imagine if the figurative became the reality for the Opposition Leader. Suppose Dr. Nelson called a press conference near water’s edge (say, Milson’s Point under the Sydney Harbour Bridge), and (assuming some members of the press are in attendance) the good doctor proceeded to ACTUALLY walk across to Miller’s Point. In the present political landscape, I can envisage the headlines: ‘Opposition Leader Evades Bridge Toll’ or maybe (and perhaps more aptly), ‘Nelson Cannot Swim’.
Yes Andrew (24) the latest Morgan poll is ‘diabolical’ for Nelson. His leadership of the Liberal Party is sunk before it has even started.
I expect that the Australian Labor Party will continue to win the politics of perception handsomely for a while yet and most certainly for so long as its Federal parliamentary leader is thought of in the community as ‘Kevin from Queensland who’s here to help’. Bless all the Labor barrackers who regularly visit this wonderful website: “God’s in His Heaven, All’s right with the world!”
No. 71
On reflection, Costello would’ve been a decent opposition leader if he decided to stay on. At least he would have hindered the free-fall into uncertainty and delivered excellent parliamentary performances.
But it isn’t so. I can understand why he intends to leave, however.
Of course they should be able to quit. If they no longer have the passion to represent their constituents, they should resign and hand over to someone who does.
GP, of course, any party that loses government goes through a period of rebuilding, and tend to tank in the polls. But you have to admit that the Coalition have done themselves no favours so far. They seem to be having a harder than usual time dealing with it, hence we have their leader on a record low PPM of 9% and now a record Morgan low of 31.5% primary (Libs down to 28.5% compared to ALP 56.5%!).
I know Morgan tends to overestimate the Labor vote by a couple of points, but just wait for the Coalition’s record low in the coming Newspoll of Nielsen.
Howard sucked the life out of the Coalition.
If they think they are going to get off the WorkChoices hook as easily as just saying they now disown it, they should think again.
I am sure Rudd plans to keep reminding people of the Liberals WorkChoices defibrillator: throw the switch, bring the monster back to life. Keep it on life support in the back room lab, ready to be wheeled out again at midnight when everyone is asleep.
Quite simply this is a “honeymoon” period for Rudd but as time goes by this lovely set of numbers will not last.
To me Rudd has not done a great deal, though he is being smart politically for example holding a summit or talkfest is not about doing things it is simply a diversionary tactic taking the focus off interest rates to a summit.
Shane Warne could not have spun a better idea if he tried.
No 78
I don’t think so Rx. Rudd knows as well as anyone that isn’t easy to make considerable reforms in areas like IR. He famously labelled the GST as a fundamental injustice in 1999. That doesn’t mean he’s going to reverse it.
Likewise, the majority of his IR policy from the last election won’t be in place until 2010.
Has anyone seen the poster called “lose the election please” who was active on this blog before the election?
When you say major reforms Generic the Labor Party isn’t making many major reforms, health- private health rebate stays, Education- wealthy schools continue to get their bonuses, Housing- nothing being done about the causes of price rises such as negative gearing and first home owner grant, economic reforms all about spin and oh how terrible the banks, energy owners and big supermarkets are but in reality they can continue to do as they please. And on IR not much in the way of change as said until 2010, hence what about the Qantas dispute at the moment regarding workers in a particular area being forced onto AWA’s with a loss of pay, now what is the Rudd government going to do about this?
Put simply this government has been getting good press from the media barrons which has contributed towards their poll numbers, and isn’t it strange that a director of News Corp is on the main table of the summit and another is helping regarding infrastructure priorities. And silly me thought that things had changed.
He’s not making many major reforms simply because he agreed with the majority of Howard’s agenda.
I am afraid that it is going to take a consistent set of horrible polls to convince the Liberal party that it really does need to change and change a great deal. Turnbull is not the answer, Hockey maybe one day, as leader of a new bunch.
David Charles at 74. I can see your pain. I can see the gentle shuddering of your shoulders. Your desperate resignation and plaintive sobs obviously come from the heart.
I feel like that reporter watching the fiery demise of the Hindenberg. “Oh the humanity”.
@79, Why would you expect Rudd to have done a lot. He is setting the directions and laying the foundations. Time will tell if the actions pick up from these.
@83, How many years did it take for Howard to make his major reforms – Rudd is playing for more that the last 3 months
I think Noocat at 70 is onto something. It looks very like the LNP are trying to ditch the things that were central to Howard’s Way, but doing it very clumsily. In the case of the Apology, Nelson’s inclusion of current cases of abuse, in explicit detail, on national TV and radio, was one of the most spectacularly ill- advised and grossly tactless acts I’ve seen in a good long time, and he doesn’t appear to have worked out while people spontaneously turned their backs across the nation. At the same time, Rudd extends a hand to Nelson to include him in a bipartisan approach to solving the Aboriginal housing problems, and Nelson declines and makes no attempt to compel his members to obey the Speaker, or they defy him, or think he’s irrelevant. No wonder these numbers are so bad.
edit: why people spontaneously etc.
No 88
Harry, that’s the problem with the alternative approach to indigenous policy: no-one wants to face up to the facts that children were and are being abused.
It’s not something you can sweep under the carpet, and certainly not something an Apology will fix.
Love this, from GP:
Haven’t we heard loud GP bleating about how he expects Rudd Labor “to be perfect in [government] so soon after their [win]“?
Perhaps an admission from GP that he is being “naive and a bit rich”?
marky marky. I think Rudd has a much longer game plan and tackling those things, head on, would do against what he has said repeatedly he would do, which is stick to the promises he took to the electorate. I recall him being interviewed by Kerry O’Brien on the 7.30 Report in which he said he thought taking the country in a different direction was like turning a huge ocean going cargo carrier, that you couldn’t do it suddenly, you needed to do it incrementally.
Just saw GP’s latest about how children “were and are being abused”, presumably in relation to the Apology.
Where’s your proof GP, that the children were stolen because they were being abused way back then?
Remember: “abuse” in those days was defined as “being aboriginal”.
12#Generic Person,
Yes the poll numbers are pointless for the next election is Three years away, guess what try telling that to both ALP HQ and 104 for they know that time will pass very quickly and while at some point PM Rudd will stuff up but at the moment he is further ahead than ever before.
The real problem for the Liberals is if after the Government delivers its big budget cuts and in 12 months time the polls still have a massive lead to the ALP.
At state level the ALP have proven very good at developing a core vote and maintaining it regardless of how poor a job it’s doing.
One thing that JWH will NOT be remembered by – that’s affection!
{90Generic Person Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
No 88 Harry, that’s the problem with the alternative approach to indigenous policy: no-one wants to face up to the facts that children were and are being abused. It’s not something you can sweep under the carpet, and certainly not something an Apology will fix.}
If abuse was happening why were the abusers not assested.
Child Abuse is a crime
Rape is a crime
Sexural Assult is a crime
Assult is a crime
Why not arrest those who commit the crime.
Generic Person. The problem is that there is no one “alternative approach to indigenous policy: no one wants to face up to the facts that children were and are being abused. It is not something you can sweep under the carpet…”.
Speaking as someone who has workerd in the area, presented at conferences and written peer reviewed papers and researched the subject, I can assure you I and many others have been doing our level best to shine as much light on this subject as possible. For starters, there’s not just one cause, there are many, as well as many contributory factors. That it occurs in dysfunctional Aboriginal communities might lead one to question the complex question of why. At least one contributory factor is the chronic over crowding and sub-standard housing.
Rudd, in attempting to make this bipartisan, is attempting to go beyond just one alternative approach. I just think Nelson was very foolish and if he’d had the sense to consult with someone like Fred Chaney, wouldn’t have done something that so clearly and unnecessarily upset so many people.
One of the probs for Labor already is that it continues to do everything to the script hence we can’t break what we said during the election campaign..
Yep lets do it incrementally pity about those Qantas workers who must either take a pay cut or find another job. And a Labor government plans to do nothing about this for two years.. Is LABOR spelt LABOR OR LIBERAL.
Incrementally also means allowing murdoch appartchiks in on policy development code for helping big business.
Sorry folks time you realised this government will do very little for the battlers and why do i say this, their are six Labor State Governments in this country and most are helping the top end of town with their policies to get richer.
BK@95
Effectual the man was. It will take a generation to purge from society.
So we keep the promises we promised, meaning that kids in private wealthy schools continue to have their rowing clubs and digital scoreboards and people with private health insurance continue to have a lavish rebate for the next three years and house prices continue to spiral out of control whilst battlers struggle to even save for a house…
Doing nothing means that such policies become entrenched, meaning that they will be very difficult to remove if ever in the future.
Thus less funds for public hospitals, higher interest rates for battlers whilst investors due to negative gearing get their tax rebates and less monies for public schools or the tiny unfinancial independent schools thus allowing the wealthy private schools to continue to build up funds to lobby harder for more funds…
All this whilst State Governments are forced to pay for public health, education and public housing… hence in all three areas they are struggling.
Mexican Beemer. Sexual abuse and assault can be very difficult to prove in court and it can be very difficult for a person to decide to report to the police. Child abuse, particularly if intra-familial, can be even more difficult for a child to report. Children are usually taught to obey the supposedly trusted adults in their lives; the perpetrators use a variety of methods to ensure the child’s silence; the child may not have the language to describe what has happened to them. You have no idea what it is like to sit through a rape victim being traumatised all over again by a defence barrister.
What does 64.5% TPP mean? It means the oppostion will need the world’s biggest balls or rocks in their head to block anything in the senate. Could you see the Locum and his 9% coming up against Kruddy? The Liberals backbench would be wetting themselves, hence why they knifed the leadership team on AWAs. Self Interest is a backbencher’s main interest.
The poll was taken either side of Friday 22nd so there is no telling what effect the kindergarten antics of that day in the HOR had. Maybe LNP can go lower, if they really try.
Rudd’s interview on first 100 days in office.
http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Interview/2008/interview_0108.cfm
steve @104
Glossy paid for by the Labor party. What tricks will they dream up next?
Harry whilst the Rudd policy is on balance a good policy in regards to housing.
But what of the internal infrastructure within the house who is pay for this.. many aboriginal communities have little in the way of money to buy bedding, kitchen appliances and furniture.. who is pay for such things? Not forgetting air conditioning, and also the services to such homes.. telephone and electricity and also gas and water.
Nonetheless to me the main problem in these areas is employment and the lack of it. I can see homes being built and people sitting around doing little within them hence being bored thus resulting in drinking, drugs and other problems.. whilst housing is a start it again to me is just touching the sides of the problem. To me people need jobs, educational facilities and recreational areas to get them away from the boredom. To me the Rudd plan could end up as another bureaucratic spend fest hence build something and walk away like most other occasions.
marky marky. If they are in government, they have to deal with everyone, including the big end of town. If it’s any comfort to you, the regional health care network has opened 2 extra operating theatres, and they’re open the full week, and extra wards to commence the elective surgery funded by Fed. Labor next week. Not bad, in under 100 days.
Harry the Rudd Government has made enormous ground in immigration, Nauru gone and detainees who were handled in dranconian way by the Conservatives slowly being treated with decency and Cornelia Rau provided with compensation and deservedly so.. should come out of Howards’ super.
And it is putting money into skills, hence funds to help 20,000 people learn new skills in the areas which are most in demand- a great policy. But this government to me still has a long way to go.
marky marky. Fundamentally, I agree it’s just a beginning and there is much much more to be done. However, one of the things we know about changing people’s health status is that structural change is one of the most effective things you can do. For example, we know the the provision of clean water supply and sewerage systems made more of a difference to public health than any other medical advance in the 18th & 19th centuries. The other thing I think Rudd has right, given that Aboriginal communities are not homogenous and he knows this, is that the local communities need to be engaged in generating their own solutions. It’s certainly what a lot of the Aboriginal people say is needed, local solutions for local problems. I think I also saw somewhere that one idea he thought might have some appeal in terms of employment, is engaging Aboriginal people in relation to the changes needed in relation to climate change and sustainability.
Who paid for the Rudd Governments book on 100 days in government.. this is a waste of money and is all about spin again.. The cult of personality at work?
Marky Marky, at the next election vote liberal and I’m sure all your wishes will be taken care of.
marky marky maaate. The ALP paid for it. Chill.
ViggoP @ 105
“Glossy paid for by the Labor party. What tricks will they dream up next?”
That is outrageous that party funds were used to produce the brouchure, they are in govt for chrissakes, haven’t they heard of the govt printing office.
Party funds are for parties, conferences at Terrigal, not for brochures, hope zoom is onto this.
Michelle Grattan in today’s Age:
“Finding themselves on the wrong side of the chamber has left many Opposition MPs in near shock. Most had known only the green pastures of government, under the watchful eye of John Howard. They are like children who’ve lost their father.” (My emphasis.)
As wrenching as it will be for some of these children (Tony Abbott in particular), for the sake of their party they must disown their damaged father (who, it now appears, was all too willing to abandon them anyway to the well-meaning but unloving executive staff of ABC Learning Centres … metaphorically-speaking).
Marky Marky got hysterical- yes,
Trivial issue anyway.
I’ve calmed down appartichiks.
Yes, Arbie Jay, I am outraged at this abuse of party funds. What’s the use of being in government?
Surely telling citizens what a great job their elected representatives are doing is a legitimate way of spending taxpayers’ money?
The trashing of another great Howard legacy.
I expect to hear roars of outrage from GP on this matter.
“As wrenching as it will be for some of these children (Tony Abbott in particular), for the sake of their party they must disown their damaged father ”
That is cruel, so cruel. But the healing has to start somewhere and recognition is the first step.
More bad news for the Nationals in Lyne (from previous thread).
The Nationals (and developer) dominated Port Macquarie-Hastings Council was dismissed yesterday by the State Government, more for stupidity than corruption (that’s Woolongong). The precipitating cause was a council built Arts centre that has blown out in cost from $8M to $64M.
The two major proponents of the centre were the two most likely to be the Nationals candidate if Vaile retired, Cr Rob Nardella (Vaile’s electoral secretary) and the Mayor Cr Rob Drew.
They are now claiming their dismissal is due to a conspiracy between the likely Independent (or liberal?) candidate Rob Oakeshott and the state government. Btw what is it with Nationals and the name Rob?
Marky Marky got hysterical – certainly, however, the issues aren’t trivial. Look, I’ve got my own concerns about how technocratic Rudd is, but he isn’t the whole government. There’s some interesting people in the mix of the Fed. government now. Underestimate people like Shorten, Combet, McKew, Guillard, Wong, Roxon, gawd, you’d be a drongo. Which, unfortunately from the point of view of having an effective opposition, Horatio Half Nelson and his merry rabble, appear to be doing. Often and effectively.
Zoom
I am disappointed, if I had wanyed honesty and accontability I would have voted for Snow White.
oakeshott country. they clone them?
Catch you later, fellow bludgers, a nice red and dinner beckons. Bloody hell, it’s so nice not to have to continue to hang one’s head in shame at what Howard did.
Laurie Oaks was clearly very unimpressed with the Rudd’s 100 days report card on tonight’s six o’clock news.
Its good to see, a small indication that maybe some healthy critisism will return
Geez leftards
from the party that gave us Mad mark
you sure are fooled by appearance
what i worry about marky is that rudd will rule by reams of paper and very little action
also the lack of brains in this government is truly scary-give me someone who has lived versus a flunky any day
123 Mr Squiggle – big deal.
Laurie dishes out a lot of “healthy criticism”. He thinks the opposition are rabble and that Nelson is for the high jump. Where were you Mr Squiggle when that “healthy criticism” was given? Not here, that’s for sure.
124 nemesis – such criticism would be warranted at the end of his first term if nothing is done but not 5 minutes into his tenure. Desperate conservatives are great to watch and listen to aren’t they? Squirm away.
gary
glad to see you are a paper chaser
in the real world people want results not reports
“Squirm away”
wtf does that mean?
128 nemesis – well, with that post we’ve established two things. Forstly, if paper chasing is the only criticism you’ve got of Rudd then he is doing well so far and secondly your comprehension skills need work.
nemesis – please list what you would have expected Rudd to have done after 3 months in office. This should be good.
Read Tim’s Blog
Recognised a few Avantars, or whatever they call themselves, is it kooks talking to themselves on the blogs. The 40 or so bloggers that I indentified back in March.
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/prozac_v_the_placebo/P20
well
mr la de da
wtf is “forstly”
and like a typical leftard you shoot yourself in the foot by denigration
perhaps a dictionary might help
nemesis,
I believe that mangy maggots “squirm away”. John Howard was very good at “squirming away”; he has, thankfully, “squirmed away” for good.
Gee-whiz Gary,
You really are grumpy tonight.
Kevin Rein has had such a dream run with the media, (admittedly enabled by the appalling efforts of Brendan Nelson) but even so…
everyone knows his credit with the media is heading for a re-rating, basically there is going to be one great big bloody downgrade of his credability soon and I for one can’t wait to see it.
Its only when the pressure is on that we will see the true Kevin Rein and I want to know what that looks like
Laurie Oakes tonight gave me a sense that a change on the horizon in this regard
Can’t imagine how much more you can achieve in a 100 day period, especially your first term, not matter the government. Can’t imagine what Laurie’s problem was.
Clearly 64.5% don’t have any concerns.
Kina,
I reckon a large portion of the 64.5% have concerns but they aren’t about Kevin, they are about Nelson and the L-NP generally.
64.5% won’t just be gratitude for Kevin’s leadership, it will be partly be disgust at the pathetic Libs.
Laurie’s point tonight was that the 100-day pamphlet wasn’t Kevin’s first report card
It was his first piece of state-backed propoganda
Squiggle
but will the PR machine allow him out for a morning walk
maybe we will get a chance come the summit
Gary
a lot less talking,
considering how good things were i just hope he dont piss it up the wall with
feel good crap like kyoto-christ almighty the tree huggers must be salivating,whilst in fact big business is making heaps out of the rising prices of energy and ‘compliance,meanwhile the little guy gets shafted as usual
Yeah Kina,
The word “cobblers” comes to mind when reading the criticisms.
but will the PR machine allow him out for a morning walk
Will we see the Forest Gump walk, thousands of loyals walking behind Kev as he walks around the lake.
Ignore the troll from the land of Bolt and nuts.
A dictionary will not assist such academic prose…
Arbie
“Will we see the Forest Gump walk, thousands of loyals walking behind Kev as he walks around the lake.’
all the hacks pleading for jobs and favor from the messiah-maybe he will do a bread and fishes for em.
ogmios
” a troll comes from icelandic mythology-originally part of the giants they now reside peacefully practicing craft’
so knowall knownothing back to H/O for a new cheat sheet
ps any intelligent thought processes more than welcome
Do not go gently into that cold night, Mr. Squiggle. As black as things may appear to be to you at present, in 20 years or so the successors to the Liberal party may prove themselves electable.
Sadly nemesis, the only items that makes sense on your posts are your cut and pastes.
wow club labor is out in force tonight,perhaps you could all get together and come up with a original put down
like your sheepish name,runs in the family does it
Hi Fulvio,
If the coming night lasts 20 years, there are going to be some very rich and wealthy media consultants who owe the ALP thier livlihoods.
a 100 day report card? sheesh!!
AJ- If Kevin rein is to start the walking, will he wear the wallabies tracksiut?
nemeisis your purile, hatfull and baseless rhetoric is realy quite underwhelming
141
Practicing craft or crafting a mutant peace?
Another query, are you # 12?
If you are, then we have crossed swords before.
Right, let’s get back to the topic, hey!
To me this poll is an ordinary reflection of a change of government, the question is……will the coalition genuflect to their constituency and re-organise to become a political force in the near future??
Let’s face it mate…..they have a lot of work to do.
Nemisis,
I just mis-spelt ‘thier’ Sorry ’bout that chief! let the side down a bit
“nemeisis your purile, hatfull and baseless rhetoric is realy quite underwhelming”
i tips me hat then
but really leftards what has kevvie done huh
besides some feel good guff about all he has done is issued a report card
though considering the collective intelligence of the left maybe he will start issuing weekly “how i am doing” reports-written real slow so you can all take it in LOL
Hello Thank Gough,
What exactly is “hatfull rhetoric”?
do you mean his rhetoric is as ugly as a hatfull?
I think he makes a welcome addition, kind of witty-like
My mail is that the Australian Electoral Officer for Victoria, who was a political appointment of the Liberal government on the eve of the 2001 election, faces the chop after the subsequent by-election in McEwen. The ALP are very angry and rather disillusioned with the whole process.
It is one thing to win or lose a seat narrowly after the Divisional Returning Officer makes his decisions and counts all the votes. It is another thing for the AEO to unilaterally override the DRO’s decisions and change the result. In fact it is, to put it politely, most unusual.
The ALP are very confident about their High Court petition. Many of the rulings on the admission of informal ballot papers into the count contradicted the opinion of the experienced Divisional Returning Officer. His authority has been effectively usurped by a political appointment.
Needless to say these rulings tended to favour the incumbent and this subsequently reversed the result from an ALP majority of 6 to the Liberal majority of 12. In otherwords a net gain of 18 votes to one of the candidates.
According to ALP scrutineers some of the decisions were inconsistent at best and plain wrong at worst. A by-election appears inevitable. Imagine if we were waiting on McEwen to form a government.
It is about time that appointments to the AEC were not made by politicians but by an independent panel of the public sevice commission. It is not a good look to have the independent election umpire stacked with political appointments.
ogmios
“Another query, are you # 12?’
well if i was a leftard then yes my intellectual age would 12
but considering i class myself as a liberal i would conservatively say i was 45 going on timeless ( being a liberal you have that luxury of permanence and right)
One thing I can think I say Kev has done is demostrated a clear divide for those Greens who always claim there is no difference between the ALP and the Liberals by way of saying “sorry”. You don’t understand how annoying that is as they fail to see the forest for the trees.
I have enjoyed watching all the hacks report on Ruddster’s first 100 days booklet through gritted teeth today. You would think that they would be more grateful to have such a handy catalogue of the Government’s achievements as they sit down to write their own assessments of the first 100 days over the weekend. You just can’t please some people.
That’s the spirit Mr. Squiggle. Rage, rage, rage against the dimming of the light!
By the way, hatfull rhetoric is when you’re accusing someone of talking through their hat.
Anyone called Gough can do or say no wrong.
“Anyone called Gough can do or say no wrong.”
so say a minority of electors in 1975 and even more emphatically in 1977
Well you see nemesis, it’s all in the eye and mind of the beholder. Seven ministerial dwarfs in the wilderness said the same thing about someone called Howard last September, but I daresay they’ve since changed their outlook.
Nemesis at 151
‘being a liberal you have that luxury of permanence and right’
The only remnant of permanence the Liberals have at the moment seems to be opposition. I’ll bet Brendan Nelson doesn’t feel his job’s secure.
anyone got a pack of Kleenex for the Howard losers to blow their little noses and wipe their little teary eyes?
and to stick in their little bottoms, because they all have the shi*ts.
I know it’s too much to hope for, but every time we get one of these right wing ‘intellectuals’ popping up on this site, I wonder if we’re going to get the insightful critique of the left which a healthy democracy (and this blog is nothing if not democratic) needs.
Alas, nemesis seems to be ‘same old same old’ – lots of insults, no substance.
Please please please can we have some reasoned argument from someone from the right, before I dismiss another illusion?
I was brought up to believe that the right was based on hard intellectual argument and dismissed the merely emotive but my experience on blogs of all colours suggests otherwise.
I used to think my leftist leanings were a remnant of my less critical past but am rapidly beginning to believe that only left wingers can put together a reasoned argument and that those on the right are blinded by emotion and when pressed can therefore only resort to insults.
The Liberals are simply wasting their time attacking Rudd. Their first major problem is not Labor it is themselves and they won’t get within 10% of Labor at election time unless they do. They don’t even know who they are, what they stand for or who really is in control of the leadership and the party. They have a talent shortage and idea shortage.
Labor’s tactic well might be to try and draw fire from them to keep them distracted from self-repair. Maybe Rudd can offer to lend them Combet, Shorten and McKew for a year to prop up their image and standards a bit.
thanks vera
though a bex and a lie down would be the ‘put down of choice’ tonight i thought
Bull butter anyway this is Morgan they hardly ever have the ALP ahead by less than 20 points.
Vera
Just remember you needed a bunch of Kleenex for 1996, 1998, 2001 and 2004 so trying to rub it in now that we’ve lost once seems a little sad on your part. There is such a thing as being a bad winner.
Chris
I actually think Nelson’s not worried about losing his job atm i mean who honestly would want the worst job in the country right now you wouldnt find many takers.
Regarding the 100 day booklet, it seems hypocritical when the ALP have trashed policy information booklets of workchoices but then feel it equally necessary to waste taxpayers money telling the media how good they’ve been and how many inquires they’ve set up…seems like that money should have been used to fix the health system since the buck stops with Kevin.
Goodness me, it’s all gone a bit pear shaped here, between going off to have dinner and coming back. Is it feral Friday night?
Nemesis
peace brother ,if’n you’re feeling a tad frazzled have a little lie down by all means
Zoom
hmmm do you actually mean that,or is it a feel good way to reinforce your supposed ‘intellectual’ superiority
i ask again beside feel good stuff
what is labor going to bring to- the economy ,the laws basically zoom how are they going to “improve things”
Glen, so good to have you and you’re considered opinion back. Missed you.
My opinions aim to bring some ‘balance’ to pollbludger that is about as much as they are appreciated.
Glen,
You have a problem as the TPP moves to 66%. This means that 2 out of three eligible voters support Labor. How you gonna go. You sitting at the bar with a beautiful women on either side and your the only Liberal. It will definately cramp your style. Pull out now and go with the Kevinistas.
Glen
wasn’t tax payers money was ALP funds,
hmmm all those losses eh and yet you begrudge me a moment of happiness
well too bad cause I haven’t stopped singing and dancing and grinning since november
Nemesis, I’ve said the same thing several times on various threads on this site – I came to blogging in the belief that there were sound arguments backing right wing positions and wanting to understand what these arguments were.
To my surprise, I’ve yet to hear anyone identifiably right wing articulate any substantial, evidence backed arguments.
I am really interested in hearing them.
I’m not here to defend the ALP, or to outline the Labor party’s future actions. I’m here to try and understand how other people think and the basis they use to arrive at their position.
And no, I don’t believe that I am intellectually superior to anybody else; I like learning, and like people who challenge my thinking and (you will also find, several times in previous threads) am perfectly willing to admit when I have got something wrong.
Are you?
I meant Nemisis12 who blogs around!
If you are not ,then I am mistaken.
By the way…….what do you believe is the best strategy to resurrect the support for the conservative parties?
Will there be a collapse and a new force emerge……or will the conservative voters have to endure a possible long drawn out generational change??
Nemesis, you’re right up there with the best of of them. Take no prisoners, as sure as hell us centre lefties won’t.
Where would we be without you, arguing amongst ourselves?
Or worse, like marky marky, muttering darkly in shadowy corners and imagining windmills to tilt against.
You, nemesis are the common enemy, the glue that keeps us united. Your name says it all and your words galvanise our solidarity.
Nemesis, I salute you .
Snapper,
Welcome back from your dinner, I’m on the Red and steak routine right now, a rather nice JOhn’s blend from 2000 that I found at the local Dan Murphy
Not sure what it was that brought me back to William’s site, perhpaps it was the need to express a centre right view in all its rightiousness..
Unless I’ve missed my guess, the ’100 day report card’ could be titled ‘the end of the honeymoon report card’ – please god make it so
Greenborough Growler, Glen would be all right. With his luck, they’ll be Julie and Bronwyn.
This Morgan poll only entrenches Nelson as opposition leader. Who would want the job at the moment?
No wonder the opposition has caved on IR, the apology, Kyoto etc. The last thing they want to do is to give St Kevin an excuse for calling a snap election. They would be slaughtered.
If I was Rudd I’d go for broke. Try to pass eveything on his agenda and see what happens. The opposition would be nervous to block anything at the moment.
OK, bloggers, a challenge -
the earliest prediction that Rudd’s honeymoon is about to end that I can find was made on 23 February 2007.
the earliest comment I can find that says Rudd’s honeymoon is over is dated 2 March 2007.
Can anyone find an earlier date for either of these?
(and do we want to start nominating dates for the REAL ending of the honeymoon?)
Mr Squiggle. A nice red will usually calm even the most ghastly creatures of the extremes.
Greeensborough Growler
As we’ve all seen Labor has gone from a laughing stock under Crean to the heights of popularity under Rudd this just goes to show you that the tables do turn eventually and they will turn at some stage down the track back our way again maybe not for some time but remember the golden rule it won’t last forever so enjoy every bit of it.
My only hope is Rudd leaves the country in as good shape as Howard left it. Ideally each Government should leave the country in better circumstances then when they took over as Howard did after the Keating years so Rudd will have his work cut out for him to leave the country in as better shape as it was given to him. I won’t object to everything Rudd does and i do hope he does manage the economy well enough but i wouldn’t be holding my breath at the moment with Swan.
Considering we lost i can see the glee that might come by saying you i should keep your head down being a Tory. While it may be unwisely considered ‘cool’ to say you vote Green or Labor it’s never the best thing unless in like minded company to say you vote Liberal so in that sense nothing has changed for me at all.
176
The first budget…..ouch!!!
Fulvio
just doing my public duty
ogmios
the libs are simply realigning to the new political landscape
as the rudd virus wears off and the real issues bite ,then i think would be best to enunciate lib policy
leftards-admit it rudd has inherited a dream economy-the real and only question is
will he stuff it
Zoom, only the godess knows really, but I would guess Rudd’s REAL ending of the honeymoon to start about when the State Labor govt’s start unravelling – see NSW currently. Keerist, NSW has not ever got beyond the Rum Rebellion.
Glen. I say this most sincerely. Reform your party. Any government needs a robust opposition. Listen to people; they may not agree with you, but they are you’re potential constituents. Your party is currently garbage.
No, actually it was Hawke and Keating who have handed Rudd a strong economy. Howard and Costello have only stood at the till, raked in the cash and let things go to ruin. The business and economists including the Chief Economist at the ANZ have said this already. Rudd’s major job at the moment is to repair the mess Howard neglect has wrought.
176 Zoom, my guess is 2023. I think that the infighting of the Liberals will increase and become more bitter as they realise that Labor is intent on curbing inflation to within the Reserve Bank’s 2 to 3% range and keeping it there permanently.
The next cry of anguish will be when Labor attacks their nearest and dearest propaganda piece that rates are always higher under a Labor Government. Once interest rates are long term under what the Tories could manage Labor will be in Power for a long, long time.
Add the whole community cabinet process to this mix and the Liberals will realise that nobody has a need to speak to a conservative politician ever again. Then we will see real landslide wins as we have seen in Queensland over the past few elections.
133 Mr Squiggle – gee we are full of hate tonight. Still trying to come to terms with the election loss are we?
Snapper at #177
I agree, all I have to ignore is:
An apology, made on my behalf to people I feel sorry for anyway
Confirmation of a kyoto treaty, the targets of which we were meeting anyway
removal of an severe industrial relations regime, when we 4.1% unemplyement anyway.
Thats not hard to do… What me worry? I should just have another red, smile a little and live with the results
Kevin Rein has yet to be really tested. The above three points are no serious shift away from Howard’s reality
Who set this 3% target in the Rserve Bank, how did they come about that 3% was the magical figure.
Why do other economies boom along with 6-8%, yet 3% is so terrible for us?
186 You obviously need some lessons in how to drink effectively, Mr Squiggle, if that is the best you can do. Proper drinking skills would at least have rendered you unconscious by now. Don’t live with those half baked results, get some real ones.
AJ,
Costello set the 3% target, although its safe to assume he had some serious players telling him what to do.
The questions over NAIRU should help you understand one of the economic theories behind drivers for inflation
Myself, I think NAIRU is overrated. Polulation growth and excessive immigration is the cause of above-system price increases
Politics in Australia have changed since November 24. There is a spirit of freshness, of new ideas and of openness.
If you are a Labor hater look on the bright side: the new government is putting out so many ideas and promises, most of them in print, and you will be able to hold it to account when they go skew-whiff. If you’re an LNP hater just breathe in the fresh air and smile, for a long time to come.
Arbie Jay, you didn’t happen to see any interest rate rises as inflation blew out did you?
136 nemesis – judging by the language and terminology used I’d say I’m dealing with the son or daughter of a Young Liberal. Consequently I don’t expect any more replies to my posts from you, it’s way past your bedtime. Besides I’m really not interested in talking kiddy language. Sweet dreams little fella/lady.
181 Harry ‘Snapper’ Organs, it’s business as usual in NSW.
187
Good question. It’s a form of nairu that is not calibrated to growth and hence is constricting the development of this nation.
gee daddy
a big man said some nasty wasty words to me,seems the adults want to congragrualte each other on how wonderful they are
oh i am scared, mumsie said if i just waited the labor pipples will hate each other anyway-they always do it seems
From memory, the 2-3% target was set by Keating after chat with Bill Kelty. In my opinion, 3% is too high. Inflation brings nothing but grief in the end.
194 And wasn’t it fun to see the Reserve Bank put up interest rates in the middle of a crucial election campaign once the ‘good Economic Managers’ in the coalition let inflation gallop outside this range. Don’t think Labor will be stupid enough to fall for that one at the next election.
Have a look at the Poll at the head of this thread and you will see why the coalition is doing so poorly. Publicly expressed attitudes like your 194, works a treat, keep it up. You are on a winner here for sure.
195 nemesis – exhibit A. The spitting of the dummy.
Mr Squiggle. You’re kidding aren’t you? The LNP has back peddled into electoral obscurity – Workchoices, Yes, no, yes, no – nuclear power, well no, but we won’t tell you about it; the Apology, well that went well! For goodness sake, the LNP is a shambles. You need to go have a good long hard look at what you are on about, and it’s going to be difficult because your power base is 2 very different constituencies – see Possum Comitatus analysis of Brendon Nelson’s 9% rating.
The Libs will go into the next election as “Labor Lite”. Hell, why would you vote for them when you can have the real thing?
Gary Bruce, funny bugger
What has rudd dismantled from the glory years
why is increasing the nt intervention
why is rod “”eddington being appointed to be master of business
admit leftards-the electorate wanted lib lite and ridd cant even deliver that
ps gary pls go to cheat sheet four-advanced insults for dummies, yours currently lack spice and elan
No. 160
I do wish, zoom, that you would cease your belligerent whispers about the alleged inadequacies of right-wing commentators. You continue to raise this point but the reality is that you don’t accept alternative arguments.
196
Inflation is in the same class as death and taxes I reckon.
I question the method of the control of inflation.
My concern is the demographic that is affected by the induced mantra are not the offenders.
202 nemesis – exhibit b. Childish name calling.
202 [What has rudd dismantled from the glory years]
The Liberal Party
The National Party
The Non core Promises
The ignoring of Inflation
The inability to apologise
The determination to let interest rates rise perpetually.
My guess is either 10 or 11 years old.
gary answer the questions as im waiting for my bottle and clean nappy (wella t least according to your “non childish name calling”)
funny buggers you leftards -you really should read your own posts
204 [I question the method of the control of inflation.]
We’re all ears. Tell us your formula for slaying the dragon, Ogmios.
208 nemesis – Hmm, younger than I thought.
gee steve
i know the cabal thinks he is superhuman but mate read what you just wrote
The Liberal Party
The National Party
The Non core Promises
The ignoring of Inflation
The inability to apologise
The determination to let interest rates rise perpetually.
I ask again (slower this time )
What has rudd dismantled from the glory years
Gotta love Keating. Only he could so elegantly slap someone down for ‘tawdry name calling’ and then go on to call them a ‘loony tune’ and a ‘no talent proselytiser’. Still…what do you do when it’s the truth?!
“Albrechtsen’s objection is to cosmopolitan Australia; to those people who will not accept the tawdry name-calling and labelling that are part and parcel of her political incorrectness.
Will someone at The Australian take this loony tune off its pages? Her journalism is not national debate. It is not reasoned argument. It is not even polite difference of opinion. It is vilification of the most addled variety. The Australian celebrates itself as a right-wing newspaper priding itself on some intellectualism. Even in its terms, it should draw the line somewhere.
Albrechtsen is a no-talent proselytiser for causes overtaken by history and events.
If not for the rest of us, perhaps for the paper’s own sake, will someone summon the courage to give her the pink slip?” – PJK
Steve, this (211 nemesis) is coming from a person (boy/girl) who is yet to supply me with a list of things he/she thinks Rudd should have achieved by now after only 3 months.
211 He’s only been there 100days, so that’s not a bad start. But seriously as you obviously know more about curbing inflation and getting it back to the RBA’s target range tell us what you would do to have it there in the next 100days.
Glen @178, after my 169,
Definately not getting any are you?
Of course given the self confessed bottle and nappy reference earlier I guess I’m asking a bit much of nemesis.
gary
why should i provide you with stuff
you should be shouting from the rooftops with glee at all the wondrous things -tangible now,not your gooey stuff.
so shout away
ps your infantile subtext is slightly disconcerting-do you have issues you wish to elaborate on
209
That is tough cookie to crack….let’s look at the driving factor….the ever spiralling cost incurred by petroleum.
Now in a thriving economy when the government is taking record tax receipts and there is no clear end in sight…would it not be prudent to reduce the fuel excise until such time that a balance is re-established.
I know…..the environment and all that….there are times when sacrifices should be made for the long term future.
213 Gary,I’m sure he’ll get to your list as soon as Ogmios tells us how to cure inflation in the next 100days. If he takes much longer Rudd will have solved the problem before he types the reply.
Gee ogmios
the cabal is pretty nasty tonight eh
214 Steve, you’re asking for specifics? You’re not really expecting answers are you? It’s easier just to criticise, not supply solutions.
zoom Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I think the question is what is the right wing position.
It used to be labor/capital. That’s gone, Australia has the highest share ownership in the world, encouraged by both sides of politics. Possible right wing position, share ownership should be for party members, not exactly a vote winner.
-Perhaps welfare. I think labor supports work. Possible difference, the degree one uses the carrot or the stick. Hardly a big vote getter.
-Perhaps green issues. I think labor supports change that doesn’t destroy the economy. What can the right say, we will cut down more trees.
And so it goes on. Where is the difference that can get votes.
Howards great contribution, back to the 50′s.
What does the right stand for; stupid white males? Given the last friday, perhaps that is it.
218 If cutting taxes was the solution my friend then there would be no inflation after Costello’s tax cutting extravaganza. Try again.
revealed official labor policy
“It’s easier just to criticise, not supply solutions.”
thanks gary at least that didnt take long
220 nemesis – This is the second time you have avoided that list using this exit strategy. The list?
Albrechtsen is a no-talent proselytiser for causes overtaken by history and events.
God he has a way with words.
Oh my, this is simply hilarious. William, I swear I can find you a bunch of musos and comedians who could turn this thread into something like “Keating the Musical”. I’d really like “Howard. the Requiem” Sniggle.
if i was rudd i would have appointed howard gg and left the countries running to the existing bureacracy also i would have made atoken apology ,then covertly gone into wa,then i would reconfirm to business my undertaking to pay lip service to the greens ala the pulp mill but being the pragmatist i would make a solemn promise to follow uop on kyoto (see apology).
then i would go back to the states and impose the health and water plan that the libs had drafted.also i would make cosmetic changes to parliament and workchoices.
except for howard as gg i suppose your right rudd is howard lite.
you genius gary you
With this poll, I was just wondering what would be the minimum post-election swing it would represent? Even allowing for maximum margin of error as an outlier, it must represent an actual 2PP of no less than around 60/40. That would suggest as much as another 5-6% since the election! So much for LNP dreams of voters blaming Labor for the inherited inflation mess. They realise now exactly who caused it.
In a way this is good news for all those Howard henchmen waiting to retire – they get to stay on longer! In a sense, it gives them an opportunity to serve. After all, they are servants of the battler one and all, so what better way to serve than to remain in Canberra 5 days a sitting week for another 3 years
The only one who might not have this opportunity is Fran Bailey, who will hopefully get the extra election she longs for to prove the strength of her personal vote! I bet she can hardly wait.
228 nemesis – As I thought, your nappy needs changing.
bingo
229 [what better way to serve than to remain in Canberra 5 days a sitting week for another 3 years
]
Socrates, I think your five days was a bit generous considering there is one afternoon off for golf and Friday mornings abusing the speaker because they can’t be on the golf course.
Glen,
Somehow I don’t think the ALP printed 2.8 million of these information booklets, Glen like your mob did with the recycled workchoices booklets that were superseded when they brought in the 5 point “fairness test”.
There was probably at the most 50 printed for the benefit of the media circus. I don’t think that would make much difference to the 25 billion dollar health budget, do you.
Anyhow, I understand that the ALP paid for them, not the taxpayer.
231 nemesis – Exhibit C. Thinks he/she has “won” by writing childish nonsense.
223
Yep, let’s just stick to the status quot….let the dragon have his feed.
Controlled reduction of the fuel excise might just lead to deflation on our domestic economy.
But then again…
233 Scorpio – and those bloody Lib sympathisers at Sky news kept saying all day that the taxpayers were paying for the booklet when Rudd had had already said on radio that Labor paid for them. Fools.
gary your obvious knowledge and analysis has reduced me to a quivering mess
how insightful of you to
a.repeatedly name call
b.dodge my one simple question “what has rudd dismantled ”
c.provided no conceptual or factual arguemneti to allow an interrchange of ideas
keep up the abuse
229 Socrates, earlier in this thread, there was talk of what this might mean in terms of the inevitable bi-elections to come. Your compatriot, Diogenes, had a few words to say about it, amongst others, and before the children started acting out.
ooh i do love these schoolyard games algernon
too bad the leftards cant answer a simple wimple question
keep blowing bubbles ruddernauts
235 Just go back to 204 Ogmios.
If you are going to question the method of control of Inflation then tell us what you really think will solve the problem. Clearly the lowering of excise on fuel is not going to give you the result you want if your aim is a permanent reduction to keep it within the Reserve Bank’s target range so that interest rates can be reduced without a perpetual threat of rising inflation.
nemesis, I think you would have noticed that most of us don’t really take much notice. If you have something to say, we might.
No harry
wrapped in your smug cocoon of self indulgence i doubt one leftard can answer the most simple wimple question
(and i will say it even slower dis time for those that cant understand ,even though i have only asked it ten bloody times)
WHAT HAS RUDD DISMANTLED
237 nemesis – Name call? Me? Where? Who cares whether Rud has dismantled anything or not. Three months is no time to dismantle anything. You’d be the first to criticise him for going in hap hazardly if he did so within 3 months. He’s put through legislation to dismantle AWA’s with more legislation to come. Silly argument.
Ill be very happy to engage you with “factual arguemneti to allow an interrchange of ideas” but with the tripe you’ve been dealing up so far, for example “228
nemesis” and more, I’m not confident. You’re really the last one to be accusing people of name calling and dodging questions. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
243
Food for thought Steve….now tell me if you would be so kind….what would you put forward as a solution to curb the inflation rate in an over heated economy?
gary
so the only vagary you point to is some flimsy admin shaving on AWA
harden the f up and debate what he really is about-you know substance not style
you condone WA eh,yet would have condemned howard
you condone keeping workchoices -if howard had you would have condemned him
so really gary analyse where your obvious discomfort is coming from-is rudd really just howard lite
maybe the messiah was just all politicians are
self serving
has anyone noticed how the libs “rudd=howard lite!!!” tends to come across in the tone of someone talking themselves down off a ledge?
besides if rudd is howard lite, that doesn’t say much for the man he defeated, does it?
Oh, for goodness sake, nemesis, go back and read this thread. Try and understand, when you have.
Harry
Thanks I just read the rest of the thread and Diogenes comments. He and I agree – very few coalition MPs will be allowed to retire on these figures.
Thinking a bit further ahead though, things might change. Labor actually faces a tough budget sesssion in May, where they will have to do something about inflation. Whether it is cutting spending, or “clarifying” their tax cut promise, they risk having to make their first unpopular decisions. I can imagine they will be trawling through the last lots rotten fish (eg the Super Hornet decision) for all they’re worth. If they handle it well then I think the retirement brigade are indeed stuck in Canberra for three years. If there is some voter resentment, then perhaps those in the safest seats could be allowed to go.
That being said, assuming these figures are an outlier, but still represent another 5-6% swing on top of the election, are there any potential retirees who could still risk it? Does anyone have a view on the uniformity of this swing either State by state or city/country?
247 The whole Federal Budget is being drafted this year with exactly that result as the centre piece Ogmios. Just wait another 100 days and you will see what difference a change makes.
Did you really think that Rudd and Swan would want to go to the next election with interest rates higher than when they gained office? It is not going to happen.
sorry smart lefty know it all
i will leave you all to mutuallly backslap
(wish the leftards could answer questions and not abuse or denigrate,maybe when they grow up they might come out to play
…… )
goodnight ‘nemesis’. maybe when you wake up howard will be back as pm! you never know hey?
such rare and exquisite music is the sound of wailing liberals emanating from the mangled wreckage of their party. the best part is howard just dusted himself off and toddled away from the flaming ruin like mr magoo. i’m loving every second of this, it’ll never be this good again.
Steve and Ogmios
I also agree that they wil have to inflation this time. A few of the better economists have already suggested the solution – cut the tax rate as promised, but jack up the compulsory super contribution rate at the same time. Presto – no net inflation impact, some fresh capital reassuring a volatile sharemarket, and promise still delivered. Plus the long term threat of underfunded baby-boomer retirees being reduced. In a time when economic conditions are sensible it really is a sensible investment of the spare funds (reported as $30Bn for this year!!!)
That being said, at the risk of being biased, I really hope they don’t cut funding in the areas that remove supply constraints: education, infrastructure and skills training. But with $30bn available, surely that can be done without risking the overall balance. Shooting down the super-stupid Hornets saves the first $5.5 Bn (asuming we will have already blown around $500m of unavoidable costs).
Thats my 2 cents on the budget.
It’s a very interesting scenario, Socrates, and I’m certainly hoping a lot of the tax cuts get funneled into superannuation, and a bit concerned that the Ruddster’s mob will be too formulaic. Steve, I hope you’re right.
gam,
I picture you in Star Wars as one of the Jedi Knights.
May the Force be with you!
Gary,
He/she’s just a troll and a pretty pathetic one at that.
They’re just wasting William’s bandwidth.
good to see the leftards have something to hate
soon enough it will be st kevin
btw get h/o to update your insults
trolls are really nice and you abuse icelandic mythology ignoramuses
One other tricky budget issue I forgot but they will have to tackle – housing affordability. Its almost a worse problem than the inflation – because it is not self correcting. Bring down the prices to much and many people will have negative equity. Plus there will then be a building slump. But if we fail to stop them going up then a whole generation will not be able to buy a house, and while I am one of those that have benefited from the rise, I must admit that I feel quite sorry for the 20 somethings now. tehonly solution I can see in the short term is targetted assistance or tax breaks for the first home buyers – hopefully not as rortable as the last scheme. Someone really has to say: stop bying houses with teh expectation that the capital value will go up faster than CPI. It won’t, adn teh governmetn shoudl make it clear that it will stop that happening. We must get the speculation out of this market. The Japanese property bubble in the late 80s gave them a decade of recession. Lets not repeat that error.
Another thing that is on their side Socrates is that for years now the Surplus figures have been way out. I think the biggest cuts will be in the areas which have traditionally been the province of National party pork barreling. I’m sure that people like Anthony Albanese will run a much more rational and prioritized road and transport construction and upgrade program.
Ministers of the caliber of Niclola Roxon will have more ideas on what is needed to fund the health system and return some sanity to it than her predecessors. I expect the cuts while huge will be in areas of genuine waste and not in the areas of needed services.
Jeez, do you reckon nemesis’ mum left him a double chocolate drink for his foray into the wonderful wide world of the pollbludgers? Do you think Saint Kev. should get someone to do something intertuby about access to the nasty world of the pollbludgers? Do you think nemesis’ mum knows?
Steve, I’m sure lateral thinking will come into play in the formulation of the budget.
Socrates, if they cut funding in the areas that you mention…then they are depriving the nation the opportunity to develop….I see investment in these areas ahead.
We can but hope Steve. The last governments obsession with rural freight at the expense of urban public transport bordered on the neurotic. Someone should have reminded them that the entire farming sector is worth the princely sum of 3% of our GDP, while the cost of urban congestion in Sydney alone exceeds the total value of rural exports.
oooh harry you are so funny
maybe get a gig on community tv
you could dine out on latte’s for a week
your wit needs to be coupled with something…….?
Socrates Says: @ 251,
Socks, these figures are really bad for the Coalition.
In my electorate, the sitting Labor member increased their 2PP vote to 65% at the last election. This result was common for most sitting ALP members, ie a substantial increase in their 2PP vote.
It is unlikely that these figures could increase much more substantially since Nov 24th which means that the majority of this increase must be in marginal and “safe”? Coalition seats.
In all probability if Labor continues to perform as they have for the past 3 months, then things are looking diabolical for the Coalition.
Socrates
” But with $30bn available, surely that can be done without risking the overall balance. ‘
where did this come from-surely not those liberal budgets and prudent financial management
st kev creates 30 bill
how will he waste it
Socrates…decentralisation is the key.
Got to create a economical environment inland….I’m working on two areas.
Scorpio
Thanks, then Diogenes is right – Lord Downer really will be tied to his chair for three years and denied the brilliant corporate career that awaits a man of his caliber. You would imagine that coalition staffers will be wanting to keep their bosses pretty healthy in this time – no nasty retirements on health grounds wanted. Game of tennis, Lord D? Like a lift to the gym Mr Andrews?
Socrates, this article about a Galaxy poll finding most Queenslanders wanting superannuation rather than cash tax cuts was in today’s courious Snail.
“QUEENSLANDERS have given Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan the green light to deliver the election tax cuts into their superannuation instead of in cash.
An exclusive Galaxy/Courier-Mail poll showed more than half the voters in the state wanted the promised $31 billion put away for their retirement.
The surprise result will increase the pressure on Mr Swan and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to re-think the promised tax breaks that are due to start on July 1.
Leading economists warn the tax cuts will be inflationary and it appears many voters are onside.
The poll also revealed solid support for Mr Swan in his performance as Treasurer.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23294093-953,00.html
Nemesis,
Yes it was all the coaliton’s doing. Its a little known fact that in his youth John Howard secretly buried millions of tones of coal under central Queensland so that it could be dug up later. Meanwhile Peter Costello was writing a future blueprint for teh Chinese economy so that they would buy it from us at the right time. No luck involved at all – pure genius!
Seriously, Steve, there is an amazing amount of money to be saved from one very simple manouvre. Shift people who no longer need acute care from acute hospitals to rehabilitation or nursing care. Our health system is currently consistently constipated (wish I had an emoticon for that!).
Steve
I find that very encouraging. For once the popular wish really is the right thing to do economically. Putting it into super would help mortgage holders by reducing inflation pressure, and older workers by helping them save for retirement. Its the only answer that makes sense.
Gee, that won’t make Glen too happy.
He thinks Swan is a dud and can’t hold a candle to poor old “Tip”.
so socrates
you will not give credit to helmanship that led to unprecented wealth and job creation
yet you gladly divvy the spoils of this hard work
says it all
274 He was misled by the Bolter.
Nemesis
I do give credit for helmsmanship. The premier of China has done a brilliant job for us, as have the Indian Finance Minister and Chip Goodyear at BHP. We’d have been stuffed without them, given the way the former government spent money like drunken sailors.
aiming for a gig with harry are we socrates
so all our great wealth and investment,strong economy etc is due to foreign gvts
and a token yank
economics 101 says your talking thru your arse
if not for howards firm leadership and free trade stance etc
we would still be gnashing our teeth over industrial reform
so what the labor party is power,but what really is the differentiator (no gooey stuff now, you hear)
ogmios, the rising price of fuel (and other commodities) is not a cause of inflation: it is a manifestation of inflation. Price pressures are being driven by a combination of very strong global demand and a weakening USD.
Most commodities are denominated in USD. In the same way the USD has been weakening in value against other currencies, it is also weakening in value against nearly all commodities. The last time this happened in a really drastic way was in the 1970′s, after Nixon abandoned the gold standard, the oil-shock of 1973 and following the fiscal and monetary excesses that were used to finance the Viet Nam war. The parallels with the last few years are very obvious.
The weakening of the dollar is particularly serious, as it is associated with all kinds of dislocating effects, of which commodity price instability is just one. At the present time, the global financial system is in big trouble, so the authorities will really struggle to find ways to stabilize the dollar and, by corollary, the prices of major commodities.
The consequences will probably be very serious, especially in the US, where they have to face up to consequences of years of misguided monetary and fiscal policies, as well as two decades of wild speculation. It is likely that credit conditions in this country will also get progressively tighter – a legacy of years of under-saving and debt-fuelled over-consumption.
Steve,
The strange thing about that poll is that probably the same amount of notice will be taken of the result as has been taken of numerous polls over the last half dozen years or so.
In these polls, respondents clearly preferred the increased taxation revenues to be spent on improving services rather than tax breaks.
Howard and Costello unfortunately did not have the intestinal fortitude to take the risk and preferred to pork barrel, increase middle class welfare and refund meaningless tax breaks, (remember the coffee and sandwich one) rather than step up to the plate and provide meaningful and useful improvements to public health and education as well as increase pensions to more appropriate levels.
Nemesis, GO TO BED NOW!
Bleeding hell, I created a monster at #175.
O.K. Now you’re just mildly amusing, nemesis, (just) and the sight of Luna Park sort of puts you into perspective. Cruel, but fair. Try the Spring Surprise Chocolate Delight or the Krunchy Frog in Dark Chocolate.
cheers
Nemesis
I am too tired to list ALL teh past governments economic failures, so in a spirit of fairness, I will say two things.
At first the coalition did reasonably economically, especially with the (IMO) necessary, though clumsily implemented, GST.
However in the past two terms they were just lucky. I can do no better than quote their own Treasury head Dr Ken Henry from a 2007 speech as teh budget approached:
“All of us would wish that we had been listened to more attentively over the past several years in both of these areas. There is no doubt that policy outcomes would have been far superior had our views been more influential.”
Still think I can’t pass economics 101? Where did you do your degree?
Goodnight, and sleep well unless you vote Liberal.
280 Scorpio, I think you will find that there will be an emphasis on providing the services where the need is greatest. I know that some state governments do research on an electorate by electorate basis and funnel funds into the most disadvantaged areas whether they be metropolitan, provincial or rural.
The Howard government seemed to have a dysfunctional reversing of that process but swan was in the area of Family and Community Services for a long time so he knows where the greatest areas of need are located.
socrates
thanks for the feedback
drop the snidies and i will
gee where did that 30 billion dollars come from again?
nemesis, the former regime were pretty happy-go-lucky when it came to economic policy. They taxed freely, spent liberally, invested hardly at all and dispensed bribes as often as required. On social matters, they didn’t so much have policies as practice the politics of division and gimmick. In this, they behaved like true conservatives.
blindoptimist
that is why today australia is third rate country
with oh only 30 bill in the kitty
RIGHT!!!!
yup, they taxed without a care in the world. what do we have to show for it? congested roads, lousy (privatised) airports, antique railways and ports, failing energy systems, inadequate water infrastructure, run down schools and unis….what were they doing all that time?
Well, there was the 50 billion in the Future Fund. Oh wait, who invested it in the sub prime market through American based money managers? Thats right, Australia’s greatest Treasurer!
Can I now buy an icecream with my expectant share?
The Morgan results, even if inflated for the ALP, says it all. The LNP are stuffed, and if folk like nemesis are the hope of the LNP, they’re stuffed completely and irrevocably.
blindoptimist Says: @ 287,
Here’s a real good example of that right here. Worth reading, but likely to upset some people.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23298270-953,00.html
The full article is even more depressing.
Fulvio Sammut,
And what about the $800 million that Costello lost on the short term money market?
Worlds greatest treasurer my ar*se.
blindoptimist
couldnt agree more
why as my rickshaw tumbled over the rutted,waterlogged track into syneytown,i had to avoid one of those ornithopter thingies chasing a sopwith,to my surprise the 3801 had gone topsy over pier 7 at pyrmont,what with those damned infernal traficator lights and there dc generators,then as i slurped the brackish water from the tank stream, i noticed some urchins jackadiddling some old etonian
your right there we need bicycles and watertanks and lockheed tristars and ….
Turnbull!! If he was spending his own money, there’d have been a good deal more scrutiny and rigour and a lot less devil-may-care. harumph!!
And they have the hide to comment on the goings on in NSW at the moment?
nemesis, you figure in tale about hubris, a well-known criminal tendency in these parts. funny, at first i mistook you for narcissus.
It just keeps getting worse.
Quite big falls on US & Euro stock markets tonight, yet again. Trubble is comin.
scorpio
“It just keeps getting worse.’
sadly in NSW yes i think the worst is yet to come
blindoptimist
narcissus was too busy looking for a mirror
the better to admire himself
Here’s a selection from a great post at Tim Dunlop’s.
split
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/the_opposition_mirror/P20/
Now, why oh why, can’t some of these Lib trolls put forward something like this?
blindoptimist Says: @ 299
More here.
{MOTORISTS will pay at least 10c extra per litre for petrol, with oil giants poised to pass on the cost of reducing greenhouse gas.
Australia’s biggest petrol refiner, Caltex, yesterday called for a direct 10c carbon tax on drivers. The company first suggested the carbon tax idea last year.]
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23294333-953,00.html
scorpio
mate read your bloddy mythology,a troll is one of the giants and retired off to create the crafts
so what your calling me a “potter,an artist”
anyway i agree with that post wholeheartedly
maybe its time to take off the blinkers and realise that australia is not just labor and we got here by hard work
granted some things could have been done better
BUT
dont devalue the processes for ideological “wins”
Phew! Not counting the last few posts and the occasional, such as Viggo P.
Generic Person 25 posts.
Andos 7 posts.
Vera 4 posts
Marky marky 8 posts
Mr Squiggle 9 posts
Glen 3 posts
Asanque 6 posts
Nemesis 36 posts !!!!
WOW! Somewhere, somehow the Libs still have money. Unless the posters are doing it for love.
crikey whitey
we grouped our pocket money together down at the bunker
Here’s one to lighten the mood.
Why I Fired My Secretary
Last week was my birthday
and I didn’t feel very well waking up on that morning.
I went downstairs for breakfast hoping my wife would be pleasant
and say, “Happy Birthday!”, and possibly have a small present for me
As it turned out, she barely said good morning, let alone “Happy Birthday.”
I thought… Well, that’s marriage for you,
but the kids…. They will remember.
My kids came bounding down stairs to breakfast and didn’t say a word.
So when I left for the office, I felt pretty low and somewhat despondent.
As I walked into my office, my secretary Jane said, “Good Morning Boss,
and by the way Happy Birthday! ”
It felt a little better that at least someone had remembered.
I worked until one o’clock , when Jane knocked on my door and said, “You
know, It’s such a beautiful day outside, and it is your Birthday,
what do you say we go out to lunch, just you and me.”
I said, “Thanks, Jane, that’s the greatest thing I’ve heard all day.
Let’s go!”
We went to lunch.
But we didn’t go where we normally would go.
She chose instead a quiet bistro with a private table.
We had two martinis each and I enjoyed the meal tremendously.
On the way back to the office, Jane said, “You know, It’s such a beautiful
day… We don’t need to go straight back to the office, Do We?”
I responded, “I guess not. What do you have in mind?”
She said, “Let’s drop by my apartment, it’s just around the corner.”
After arriving at her apartment, Jane turned to me and said, ” Boss, if you
don’t mind, I’m going to step into the bedroom for just a moment.
I’ll be right back.”
“Ok,” I nervously replied. She went into the bedroom and, after a couple of
minutes, she came out carrying a huge birthday cake .
Followed by my wife, my kids, and dozens of my friends and co-workers, all
singing “Happy Birthday.
And I just sat there…
On the couch…
Naked.
What about putting some of towards William’s bandwith, nemesis?
Hi, Crikey,
It’s been a long night alright, what with all the trolls and all.
Time for some beauty sleep.
SCORPIO!!!
Happy Birthday to you!
nite nite billy goat gruff
Phew, just caught up with the posts on this thread. Was there a full moon last night, anyone?
I must confess to having an empathic deficit since November, I really had not absorbed the depth of the grief and loss that our Tory bloggers were experiencing. The infantile rants of nemesis and his/her ilk have led me to a new appreciation of the balance of such esteemed commentators as dear old Glen. Even Generic Person seems positively rational now.
It just proves how frustrated and impotent they are feeling when this is the best they can put forward, oh happy day!
Extracted from Morgan, comments on Liberals, sounds pretty accurate to me. Dark night of the soul indeed, even a tomtom won’t get them out of the wilderness this time.
“I think they are lacking good leadership and unity.”
“They need a decent leader.”
“Too many people vying for power.”
“They’re falling apart. No party unity.”
“I think they’re a disaster at the moment. They can’t seem to agree with each other.”
“Lack of credibility of current leadership and a fair possibility that the current leader won’t be there for the long term.”
“Too fragmented and too many old politicians in.”
“I think they are a bit childish. They are like kids in playgrounds. They backstab each other and stuff like that.”
“They have no direction and the wheels have fallen off the Liberal party in Australia. They need to support their leader and stop all their in-fighting.”
onya basil
another flunky from h/o out to play
are all the morning shift so intellectually challenged,as i told your compadres last night use new cheat sheets as your insults are rather tenditious
BTW
LIBERALS=BOO
Good morning nemesis, when do you think that Turnbull will make his move on the leadership?
Before the next election or after?
My guess would be the latter unless the government really stuffs up in this term, time will tell.
good morning to you ogmios
i dont care regarding turnbull-at the moment his position is grossly inflated due to the unfortunate brainsnap of the electorate.
as time goes on and labor is shown to be howard-lite (in fact in some areas howard-fat) then will nelsons cool and logical demeanour will shine.
Remember ogmios he is dealing with a party trying to figure why,when things were so good, they lost.He faces the herculean task of reform internally and dealing with the most effective pr machine (read labor) that the electorate has ever encountered.
i just smile when someone says tamar,NSW,nt intervention -need i go on
ps for the thirteenth time
What has rudd dismantled of the Howard glory years (remember no gooey stuff you all)
Nemesis, I would not underestimate Turnbull, he is overtly ambitious and those that know him from yore call him “El Presidente.”
I believe that most people would like to see the reformation ASAP, due to the fact that without a vibrant opposition democracy is not served.
ogmios
ambition is good,numbers are everything and turnbull is seen as a ‘loose cannon’
he can go and wreak merry havoc but the real work is already underway.
NSW and the fatty o’barrell (beat ya’s to it leftards) premiership will be just the beginning of the end of the one term ruddernaut,grounded on the shoals of endless papers and committees but precious little action or reform
ps
.
.
.
What has rudd dismantled of the Howard glory years (remember no gooey stuff you all)
Nemesis, I believe that Rudd has dismantled nothing thus far, but I suspect the IR legislation in the near future will be the starting point.
These tax cuts in the next budget irks me and could be inflationary, but my understanding is that the thirty billion is over a three year period….please correct me if I’m mistaken.
ogmios
thank you for answering my query (julia is about to beat up the states re their rights over IR i understand -how very totalitarian)
re tax cuts – i think BOTH parties endorsed them with learned treasury input, so if kev says we will match em its all right but if johnny does -evil nasty man- that is part of the problem with the rudd ascension
lot of smoke and mirrors very little critical analysis
also may i add the gsc project looks extremely interesting, perhaps that sort of visionary view is needed more,thats why knocking the turnbull rainmaker is flawed-at least it was given a go- plus for those that care to reflect we have globalised our scientific and hi tech research areas- CSL etc anyone
so what rudd is doing is not massive reform but at best inkering at the margins at worst a barren field of dreams
Hey Crikey
Don’t lump me in with the Lib trolls!
How insulting! the first election I was eligible to vote I voted for Gough then Bob, Paul, Kim, Mark and Kev. Have manned the Nth Nowra booth come election time handing out ALP how to vote leaflets.
I upset Glen and Nemesis last night because I was being too cheerfull about st kev’s win!
Love that he’s enabling me to once again have some pride in being Australian instead of the shame I’ve felt over the last 11 years.
Kyoto, Sorry and will now ratify the Optional Protocol to the United Nations Convention against Torture which howard refused to do.
Poor old Nemesis believed Howard’s lie that Labor would hand IR back to the unions. Ain’t gonna happen, was never gonna happen: Howard lied and lied and lied. Legislation to start the dismantling of SurfChoices introduced and will be passed.
NT Intervention being reworked so it will produce good results for Aboriginal people instead of miners. Impressed with Jenny Macklin doing allthat consultation with aboriginal elders/communities.
The Apology, all sorts of people, including Lieberal voters, that come into my shop saying how impressed they were. The foundation for lots of hard work still to do, but you can’t build without a foundation laid down first!
Worried a bit about inflationary impact of those huge tax cuts but will wait until the Budget is handed down. RBA is worried about them too, which adds to my worry.
As to all the reviews and Talkfest 2020 I am relaxed about those, want informed action thank you.
“I voted for Gough then Bob, Paul, Kim, Mark and Kev.”
Paul, great as he was, had too much self satisfaction for his own good. He is like those salesmen you meet who are so self assured and tell you you won’t get a better deal anywhere else. Probably won’t, but generally I go elsewhere, as that smugness puts me off.
Kim had no real conviction, nice likeable bloke, but waffled and flip flopped when the pressure was applied.
Mark, well only the most loyal would have voted for Mark.
101#Harry ‘Snapper’ Organs
Without knowing each others backgrounds I would susgest it is unwise to presume what knowledge I may or may not have regarding Child Abuse issues.
My post was in response to GP claiming that Aboringal childern were removed because of widespread abuse, my point was Abuse is again the law.
I acturally was making a sutble point for the Right is very big on Law and Order, they have been in Government for most of the 20th century so why didn’t they deliver better policing for Aboringal Australians rather than taking the easy option of removing Childern.
305 Crikey – I think it is a bit unfair lumping Marky Marky in with that lot. He seems to be a disgruntled left winger, not a right winger. Even some of the right wingers show some debating ability such as Glen and GP. However there are some that give you all the signs of being constantly over refreshed, well I hope that is the excuse or their problems are worse than I thought.
Arbie
do you now regret voting for mark?
would mark have won in 2007?
Nem
Did not vote for Mark,as did many others.
Mark would not have won in 07, similar with NSW, no matter how bad Iemma and co are they will have to get a lot worse before the electorate gets truly desperate to vote them out. Unless and until the libs put themselves forward as a credible alternative NSW will be stuck with a govt they don’t want.
I regret Latham didn’t beat Howard earlier, giving that odious excuse of a man, 4 more years to trash Australia’s international reputation and enact policies that have cost Australia billions which are now being systematically dismantled.
Aj
thanks for that insight
Most strongly disagree re Minor and NSW
its going to get much much worse
6 mths and the natural order will be restored to nsw-go barry go
Rudd will go down in history as the one term wonder who promised the land of milk and honey and delivered sour cream and lemons
Mexican Beemer at 324. G’day. Most certainly, I would not presume what your knowledge may be of child abuse, and I understood your points about proper policing and the false rationale that removing Aboriginal or part Aboriginal children was done because of abuse. I think I have stated elsewhere on Pollbludger, somewhere, though can’t be sure, so will state it again, that I’m of the view that the primarily part Aboriginal children were primarily removed for the purpose of breeding the Aboriginal peoples out. Again, in my view, a continuation of other genocidal actions such as massacres, deliberate introduction of disease, poisoning, in another form. However, the point I was trying to make is that in order for an arrest to be made, a report of abuse/assault must be made, and for many children and adults this is often difficult for a few of the reasons I advanced.
Jeez, Nemesis. Big call about how Rudd will go down in history. We’re only just nearing the first 100 days.
Howard will go down in history as the person who singlehandedly caused the political obliteration of the Liberal party.
Its always humourous to look at the hypocritical Howard supporters who claim others make false promises, yet refuse to look at Howard’s record of broken promises.
However, this level of delusion is really bad news for the Liberals who unless they reform themselves and actually look constructive are looking at future decades in opposition.
harry
call it intuition
but a few early signs are very discouraging,the policy of being all things to all people only lasts so long
with nsw ready to implode the resultant carnage is going to stain labor to the core
Nelsons leadership will allow the ‘wets’ to reassert some strength in the party and recruit some great talent
come 2010 labor will be facing a fractious caucus,riven by sectarian interests all wanting to gnaw at the bone
bingo nelson will be seen as the more stable and representative of the wider community
I can’t understand why anyone possessing such “great talent” would want to spend the next 12 to 15 years sitting in the back row of the opposition benches.
Surely, anyone with only a modicum of “talent” would find something better and more rewarding in which to spend their time.
To see just how far the Libs have to go to be relevent again it is useful to reflect back on the legacy that John Howard has left to them.
["Want to get an idea of what ambitious politicians go through when they set out to climb the greasy pole of power - and what they have to do to stay at the top? Want to know what mean and tricky really means? If so, this unauthorised biography is compulsory reading. [. . .] A real page-turner . . . and it’s all true.”
South Coast Register, 08/08/2007]
http://www.mup.unimelb.edu.au/catalogue/0-522-85334-X.html
And this “revealing study” was written by two Liberal supporters. Not only is it unflattering reading, but what stands out the most, is what they left out and avoided in writing this tome.
nemesis. You’re talking about 9% Nelson, right? Good luck with that!
harry
i will make sure the message gets through
the thing is harry, that nelson has a lot of political capital he is still to exploit
the 9% is certainly unflattering,but given the plethora of “good news’ coming from labor central,coupled with high expectations, i foresee his rating quadrupling
come the next two or three measures
it really comes down to
1.how messy NSW becomes
2.how long before the afterglow rubs off
3.what budget measures labor bring in
4.how far “welfare to work” bites the battlers
333 nemesis – wishful thinking at its best.
With the Libs me-tooing on everything what ever Labor is branded with so too the Libs. No-one but the rusted ons are going to believe the Libs at the next election when they say “Workchoices is dead”. They will wear that around their necks for as long as Labor had to wear the 17% bogey as sure as night follows day. Just mentioning Workchoices will send a shiver up and down the spine of voters and remind them of what a mean bunch of a…holes the Libs were.
gary
thanks for your first no insult post
and yes i might be a tad wishful,but mark my words
the kingdom of heaven is about to be shaken by a morris minor-how very 1950ish,.almost poetic justice
So you voted for Fraser in 1980?
339 nemesis – thanks for actually trying to make a case on something using sensible words for once, hence my reply. Now explain to me why trouble in one state means Labor will lose out in the others (in Victoria it’s hardly reported) and explain how this will impact in 3 year’s time. Also explain why you believe people will blame the Federal government for Iemma’s problems.
The problem your wishful scenario has is that it deals with what is happening now and assuming that those factors will still be playing out in 3 year’s time. Bad mistake. Because a budget is severe now doesn’t mean it will be so in an election year, just think back to your Lib friends. They were past masters at this tactic. I suspect Iemma’s problems at the moment will have washed through the system by then, at least the most destructive elements of it and I’m not convinced people will hold Rudd accountable for the economic situation just as they were reluctant to hold Howard accountable (remember the “better economic managers” polling all last year?).
gary
NSW is rotten to the core,greiner realised this and set up ICAC.
Unfortunately since then the momentum to root out corruption has stopped.
the people of NSW arent dumb and watching the daily soap opera of the gong
is sure opening their eyes.
Victoria is just as rooted ,just the usual suspects aint been dug out yet.
people believed in rudd and his new broom,yet as i have stated before (and some have graciously admitted as as such)
what has rudd overturned of the howard legacy?
So 3 yrs down the track-lots of bubble blowing -but where will the decisions that impact on the battler and improves his/her lot be taken. at the moment the only real change is to TIGHTEN the welfare model-not very nice to the battler i suspect
the gooey stuff is great for the bleeding hearts but of what substance will it have to the battler,remember at the end of the day howard bought each election
I suspect that the rhetoric will not match the actions and the infighting will happen
my case in point- Morris minor- promised to bring in the new broom when all he has done is try to sweep stuff under the carpet
hope this helps gary
No William, my minds a bit fuzzy but was the drovers dog leader of ALP then? If so i guess i voted for Bill
Yeah, I’m just needling you for having forgotten poor old Bill.
Is Bill still an arch-monarchist?
I have an excuse for forgetting him, had other things on my mind. I joined the navy and was at HMAS Cerberus doing basic training around that time.
“what has rudd overturned of the howard legacy?” This is a question you should be asking in 3 year’s time NOT 3 months. I don’t know if you are in Victoria or not but in today’s Herald Sun they list the changes Rudd has made in this first 100 days and compares this with past PM’s including Howard. I suggest you read it and then you will stop pushing this line. Howard doesn’t compare well.
You are making a lot of assumptions, many of which I believe you can’t substantiate. Believe me if Labor was in the same position as the Libs are now in I would not be giving them a snow flake’s chance in hell of winning the next election.
“I suspect that the rhetoric will not match the actions and the infighting will happen.” Again wishful thinking. You have no reason to believe this to be so.
I also notice you failed, IMHO, to address those points I asked you about.
All I’m saying is that you’re basing your arguments on a set of factors that probably will not be the same set of factors come the next election.
Do nothing Rudd is at it again – doing nothing (well, nothing the Libs had the courage or the decency to do).
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/australia-to-sign-torture-treaty/2008/02/29/1204226991242.html
…AUSTRALIA is set to seize back the moral high ground against the use of torture by ratifying an international treaty snubbed by the Howard government…
Gary,
Is this the story you speak of?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23299649-662,00.html
gary
1.the unions want heads to roll ,b bennett etc
2.now that their is no enemy the next natural progression is to attack oneself for supremacy of ideology-the greens are ready to blindside labor at every turn
3.NSW is pivotal to labor -once it falls the house of cards comes tumbling down and if my name aint martha a state election aint far off- 6 mths max
4.factional warriors-d mighel,j robertson etc
5.the proven venality of the electorate- it remembers the $ not the “ahs’
most of labors win was finessed via the youth vote who were enamoured by St Kev-give em a few years of pain and they will be begging “uncle howie” to lead em out the wilderness (back to the good times that they remember under the libs)
yes a bit of conjecture mixed with a fair dose of OBJECTIVE reality.
appreciate greatly your feedback.
350 Greeensborough Growler – yes but the online version doesn’t give the detailed points of each PM’s efforts over their first 100 days. It goes back to Gough and goes forward from there.
I’ll just have to get the dead tree version.
3.NSW is pivotal to labor -once it falls the house of cards comes tumbling down and if my name aint martha a state election aint far off- 6 mths max
How do you come to this conclusion? How can this happen with fixed terms?
You beat me to it, Gary Bruce. I think nemesis has been at the red cordial.
351 nemesis – what has Rudd done in the first 100 days you object to bearing in mind the party you hold so dear has agreed with most of what Labor has done.
gary
3.the concept of fixed terms does not mean that no matter what the term is unchangeable
beside certain parliamentary mechanisms that are available to the state libs…..
there is always this caveat
“Only if the Governor dissolves parliament can an election be held before the four year term is complete.”
perhaps 75, jack lang etc didnt happen in your schema but never say never is the byword of my political schema. especially when it comes to labor and sectarianism
“Only if the Governor dissolves parliament can an election be held before the four year term is complete.” And under what circumstances can this happen?
What are the “certain parliamentary mechanisms”?
Tell me something nemsis does announcing or establishing something in the first 100 days constitute action IYHO?
Scorpio @ 307
What a laugh..Pure Gold
gary
359
not telling
358
may i direct you to this site
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+41+1912+FIRST+0+N
harry
still angling for a gig on community tv i see
nemesis, let me add a bit more to that question at 360. Does announcing or establishing something or introducing laws in the first 100 days constitute action IYHO?
nemesis, can the Legislative Council force the government into an election by voting against their budget? Ours can’t and we have fixed terms. I really think you are grasping at straws.
For those that don’t understand what’s been happening since the Rudd ascension here is an Editorial that summarises things well.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/100-days-that-have-changed-a-nation/2008/02/29/1204226986449.html
Section 24B of the Constitution Act states:
Sub-section 5 suggests to me that the Council can indeed force the government to an election by blocking supply, through the intervention of the Governor if necessary.
363
yes-if it is real and tangible-like moving the furniture out of the pms office-besides that nothing tangible so far.
364
see 362 :0
Thanks William but I’m not so sure about your final comment given this, “The Council has similar powers to the Legislative Assembly (Lower House), but it has limitations in respect to some financial bills.” There must be something that tells us whether it has this power or not.
re Nemesis at #343 says
Nemesis,
I completely agree with you. The momentum stopped shortly after the ICAC was set up!
You will probably recall the ICAC Investigation in North Coast Land Development in about 1990. At least 2 of the Coalition MPs named in this report are still in Parliament with one on the frontbench.
If you would like to refresh your memory, the summary and findings reports are here:
https://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/files/pdf/pub2_4i_11.pdf
https://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/files/pdf/pub2_4i_51.pdf
IMHO, all business donations to political parties and candidates should be banned and donations by individuals restricted to some small amount.
Yes, I believe you are correct, Gary. Section 5A(1) reads:
So there can only be an early election if the government is defeated in the Assembly, and stays defeated.
Wasn’t Greiner hoist on his own ICAC petard?
I seem to remember that he was found guilty of corruption by this august body. By the time his appeal was successful, he had lost his entire political career.
A reasonably successful Liberal Premier done over by his own creation. Of course the Libs have been out of office ever since. Delicious irony.
367 nemesis – ok let me give you the beginning of each of the points explaining Howard’s actions in the first 100 days.
- Slashed bureaucracy
- Announced …
- Announced …
- Announced …
- Announced …
- Introduced new IR laws.
Now for Rudd.
- Ratified
- Apologised
- Embarked on razor gang
- Announced ….
- Announced …
- Closed offshore…
- called a …..
- Froze MP’s ….
- Introduced IR legislation
- Visited Iraq….
- Sent more troops….
- Set up …..
- Appointed petrol …….
- Commissioned grocery ……
- established bureaucracies …
And Rudd had the Chrismas break in his first 100 days. Makes Howard’s effort look positively sick doesn’t it?
Thanks william. Nemesis there is your answer. I really don’t see the Iemma government losing the confidence of the Lower House. They have a large majority.
Hmmm! Perhaps nemesis has gone to try out for community TV? Seems to have gone very quiet since William systematically unscrewed the constitutional nuts holding the wheels on the hypothesis of the unravelling of Labor across the continent. Oh,and Tasmania. Either that or the red cordial has worn off. Thanks for that info., William.
367
nemesis @ 367
yes-if it is real and tangible-like moving the furniture out of the pms office
That would be the leather furniture Janette insisted on, at great expense to the taxpayer, which was moved to the basement so the original built-in furniture, which every previous PM was happy enough to use, could be returned to its rightful place, would it?
Incidently, the original furniture has considerable federal significance.
374 Harry, don’t tempt fate, it will crawl out from under its rock soon enough!
Hello PB’s -
been away for a couple of days ,but having had a quick perusal it seems clear that the libs (poor sods) are so lacking in anything useful to do that they have got together and created nemesis.
I’m surprised that s/he got any traction, but I suppose while one head still pops up over the parapet…
BTW – went to see Spamalot: the Black Knight and the Knights of Ni bear a striking resemblance to a certain opposition front bench, particularly when they were all running around looking for a shrubbery. Or when they were hitting themselves in the head with dead herrings.
I see the “brains trust” in the Liberal Party have come out with their own 100 days brochure called “100 days of spin and uncertainty”. Sounds like their last 100 days in office.
Well the Brisbane City Council election limps towards March 15 with wraps on. Rowell opened his campaign today on a day that Brisbane city was hopelessly gridlocked most of the day. Gridlock Campbell has been all but invisible so it looks as though as soon as the action starts it will all be over.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/rowells-vow-rates-will-be-capped/2008/03/01/1204227046850.html
Or in the case of the more ‘Abbott’ elements of the party: “40 days and 40 nights of autocannibalism and bowel failure”.
Very nice article on Mr Rudd in the SMH today.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/softer-side-of-rudd-begins-to-emerge/2008/02/29/1204226991245.html
And the lousy Liberals call him KRudd.
Rx, I know quite a few lib voters who are very impressed with Kev and his team. One even referred to Kev as “Our Prime Minister” and he said this with real respect. KR has won over the nation and this reflected in the polld. He’s a very good and decent man.
I agree Steve K. He is the best thing to happen to Australian public life in a long time. And I say that without partisan bias. Good on those Libs who are gracious enough to acknowledge his character and decency. We are indeed a lucky country.
Whoa, just saw the first Gridlock Campbell ad for the Brisbane city Council elections. In a tunnel softening people up for higher tolls by the looks of it.
And as a Green member I agree. Rudd is doing a good job, and is quickly changing the dominant culture of this country from mean -spirited and defensive to open and flexible. No doubt differences will continue to arise, particularly around some environmental issues, but socially he is progressive and decent.
With the strong possibility of Obama getting to the White House the rule of the mis-nomered “rationalism” and extreme conservatism is looking like it is finally coming to an end.
Which is quite incredible if you think back 4 short months.
hi harry
your wit unfortunately was rejected down at community tv -apparently you measure to about half
william
thank you for that piece of info-how silly of me to think that there would no fail safe mechanisms in the event of a corrupt or seditious government.
i mean whitlam and lang were just blips right???
gary
thanks for deftly avoiding my 4 other points @351 -maybe a bit close to the truth eh.
nemesis-
It must be so degrading and humiliating to still be charged with the impossible task of trying to find even the smallest glimmer of light in the otherwise dead and buried carcass that was the Liberal party.
But good on you for trying – a thankless task indeed, you poor thing.
We feel your pain.
The sight of our most senior elected Liberal in a tunnel with hard hat, big glasses and smug Peter Costello like grin on his face will only terrify small children and furry animals let alone the ratepayers and toll users of Brisbane. I thought it was the idea of TV ads to give out positive images of pollies.
barry@369
nice points re ICAC and political donations
perhaps some sort of meaningful dialogue could establish what a political donation encompasses-i understand greiner actually had a proposal along those lines (including limits on spending and possible funding as part of the process) but the luvvie duvvies in labor would have none of it.
Jen
unfortunately your entrapments precede you-go spin your web elsewhere as this black duck dont swim in your cesspool
I see the “brains trust” in the Liberal Party have come out with their own 100 days brochure called “100 days of spin and uncertainty”. Sounds like their last 100 days in office.
Did they pay for it themselves or use a colour photocopier in one of the electoral offices.
By the way what is happening re the Lindsay pamphlets.
well spotted nemesis. You are a bright young thing, aren’t you.
Thought of running for leader? Or any of the OPPOSITION front bench positions as there appears to be a bit of a dearth of talent there at the mo.
Hi Arbie Jay (#391)
Rx 393.
Surely not!
Our Tone would never resort to such base, spineless, pathetic behaviour.
Jen (#394)
I wonder what Pauline Hanson and even the WA division of the Australian Democrats would have to say about that.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2003/s932679.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/18/1063625155054.html
This should be repeated as often as possible:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23299649-662,00.html
Oh yes he would and yes, he did – guilty as charged. But it was only a Chaser style prank after all at least that was the spin he advised the former bogan member for Lindsay to go with in the early hours on the day the story broke.
Abbot is a very un-christian kinda guy who likes to pretend to be holier than you and I. He is a despicable individual but the best gift the libs have offered up to labour these last 12 months. Keep it comin’ Tony!
Rx
I always assumed that Howard was the prime mover in destroying One Nation and the Deomocrats.
Looks like there is a lot more to Abbott, probably even had the Greens lined up next.
Steve K-
he is no more a Christian than Ebeneezer himself.
Arbie Jay
Add to that the agenda of WorkChoices to financially disable Labor by crippling unions’ ability to function effectively.
actually i heard he sacrifices goats and eats kids hearts,when of course he is not masterminding all the plots the lefties accuse him of
when does that man sleep i say
401 There’s no rest for the wicked, Nemesis.
steve
first hand experience i presume?
403 No, just agreeing with you for once. don’t be too shocked it’s not likely to happen too often.
steve its okl
your actually one of the better ones and no im not here for self gratification and pumped egotism-just simple debate!!!
I think that went completely over his head.
That is exactly what I am here for self gratification and pumped egotism. Why are you here?
knowledge my friend
the eternal quest
Jen, I didn’t realise how versatile you were – spinning webs in cesspools!
They must be very strong ones if you’re hoping to catch little black ducks.
Maybe you could find a nice, Green, Victorian spider to use as a new blog name?
“no im not here for self gratification and pumped egotism-just simple debate!!!” You sure give us VERY SIMPLE debate nemesis.
As far as that posting you say I overlooked I actually read it and came to the conclusion that to reply I needed to understand any part of it. I’m afraid your humour escapes me.
Been away for a few days, get back to find nemesis spouting forth complete nonsense over and over again — same old same old, no logic, no argumen, a kind of constipation of thought and expression. Nemesis, you’re still young. Go away and do something worthwhile then come back when you have something to say.
ah
labor blog central has come online
what worthy pronouncements shall issue forth tonite zoom
perhaps outright praise for the attack on abetz or a half-hearted defence of corruption is us (oops i meant nsw labor)
but still sadly no-one can tell me what rudd has dismantled of the howard glory years
ps zoom check out the amazon-apparently the spiders there can entrap some endangered parrot or something
moral quandry time for the greenies methinks
Hey, zoom-
talented indeed! As a Green though I am dead against the harming of ducks, black or otherwise, so nemesis is safe with me.
Kind of.
Someone does need to clarify the notion of debating to him/her though. It needs two opposing sides presenting rational arguments to support a particular position.
Appears to be something missing from this picture…
412 What attack on Abetz? I’ve been waiting over a decade for that bunfight to break out.
“but still sadly no-one can tell me what rudd has dismantled of the howard glory years”
Can you tell me nemesis how answering this question is relevant to anything? Can anyone explain it to me?
Gary
i forgot your ozymandis powers of foresight and knowledge
perhaps you might entertain my juvenille mind a bit more
“As far as that posting you say I overlooked I actually read it and came to the conclusion that to reply I needed to understand any part of it.”
considering you posted at least three times re my point three i seriously doubt your cognitive abilities oh great one
I think it’s all too obvious that nemesis is here for self gratification and pumped egotism. Haven’t heard a proposition that’s not been shot down in flames yet. Wry humour is certainly beyond this person.
steve
abc news has quoted a report in a news publication revealing his great uncle was a nazi and then going on to compare abetz views with his great uncle
gee wonder what party spilled that tidbit-hypocrites
With all due respect to nemesis this is a different person writing these posts than the one who was on this afternoon. Either someone differently writes under his/her name at night or the “refreshments” kick in full bore at night. I’m tipping the latter.
Gary @415-
in all honesty -no.
Sometimes the mysteries of life are too great for simple bloggers to try and understand. And why anyone wold want to try and defend the former government is one of them. Unfathomable.
actually
gary during the day the leftards are not affected by “lunar’ activity and are quite amicable
at night the old hatred burns anew
case in point!
ps
got a response to points 1,24 and 5
appreciate your input on point three but perhaps you should re-read 24b (this time slowly-helps with comprehension)
Actually, dear little Nem, you will be hard put to find me extolling the ALP’s virtues on this site. I generally respond to comments and am not here to push an agenda.
It would be a waste of my time to do so – I have more effective ways of making things happen, I don’t need to go around trying to convert people in blogdom.
I’m not a NSWaleser and know very little about what’s going on there. Sorry, may be the centre of the universe for you, I’m just not particularly interested (and never have been, before you start accusing me of fair weather friend dom).
Similarly, know little or nothing about Erica Betz or of any attacks on said person.
As for dismantling aspects of the glory days of Howard (whenever they were), why are you so hung up on this? Aren’t things moving quickly enough for you?
I know you think Kyoto, whaling, dismantling of Nauru, the apology etc aren’t big deals, but if so, why didn’t Howard do them?
418 Yes, read the story about Abetz. Looks like the Libs are sowing the seeds for a new broom to replace Abetz when the Double Dissolution moves into full swing. Funny that the story is being pushed here by the Liberal trolls.
Gary Bruce, whether it’s one person or a number of persons, they’re as tedious as all get out. Stupid hypotheses about the defeat of Labor federally, being predominant. I’ve said before that if this is what the LNP have to offer, they’re in serious trouble – for a long time. Let’s think obliviated, buggered, ###ked, and seriously gone for all money.
416 nemesis – Ok, which is it then, I ignored your posting or I responded to it three times?
onya gary
you
replied
to
point
3
only
answer
the
other
4
points
cheers
Gary-
Don’t ask!!!
The answer won’t make any sense. Just like the previuos one’s haven’t.
nemesis, you haven’t as yet responded to my points made this afternoon. You left after being blasted out of the water re Labor in NSW being forced into an early election and the poor effort of Howard in his first 100 days as compared to Rudd.
steve
nice duck and weave
ps this shite re abetz is really quite sick regardless of his political leanings
or its okay cos he is a liberal
Nemesis, you’re the only one interested in the Abetz story.
This shows how irrelevant it is and how little we are interested in ‘playing the man’.
nems @ 429.
Yep.
nemesis
I assume you chose your blog moniker for some reason. Nemesis was the goddess who took divine retribution against mortals who showed hubris. However, in popular culture, “Nemesis” is often used ignorantly by the disaffected who feel the name ennobles their cause, which is inevitably rage brought on by their inability to come to terms with the reality that the world has left them behind.
In which sense are you using the term?
I must admit I would have left too after being totally humiliated like that but the difference between you and I is that I wouldn’t be coming back on again tonight to be further humiliated by talking total garbage in a fully “refreshed” state.
gary
see 426
ps why did you only respond to point three,then try and obsfuscate
disingeneous at best
dishonest at worst
perhaps spider webs are more your forte
432 Diogenes – do you really have to ask?
Now Nem’s getting his posters confused – and losing grip on his insults.
Nem, Jen’s the one who weaves webs, get it right.
434 nemesis – can someone please help me to decipher this claptrap? Bah, bugger it, forget it.
zoom
i forgot labor doesnt allow inclusion of diversity,just enforcement of demagogery
please bring your comprehension skills up to date zoom as i am finding the repetition rather pedestrian
perhaps an original comment or a bit of shooting the brreze may unblock those analytical skills i’m sure you posess
If someone accused me of being “over refreshed” and it wasn’t true I’d be denying it. Not once has nemesis denied it. I think that speaks volumes.
And I shoots ducks -.
i think..
or is that Bob Brown?
Or, maybe that’s Prince Harry . Or ..
f@#k it . I’m going to bed.
Cheers all (well, most).
Good to read you again.
[color=red]nemesis[/color] is a menice.
Oh for goodness sake. nemesis, like all of his/her LNP compatriots are suffering severely from relevance deprivation syndrome. Why on earth do you grant this silly person with silly ideas any oxygen?
Jen, serious question. Garret is going to try changing the whaling ghastliness, what help will the Greens provide to help, given Japan has been busily stacking the International Forum?
Waste of time responding to Nem. And boring. Don’t do it for your own sanity and that of other pollbludgers.
Nem – you, to accuse someone else of repetition!
Nice of you to suggest I possess analytical skills – sorry, I can’t return the favour.
(BTW, if I was your parents, I’d be sueing your private school, they obviously didn’t teach you spelling, grammar, punctuation OR clear thinking).
443 apres – agreed. No more feeding.
actually
scorpio depending on the company
“[color=red]nemesis[/color] is a menice.”
i can be mebad ,but yes mostly menice
OK, Harry and apres, but I do like a good stir.
Nem takes himself so seriously it’s cute.
zoom
i dips me hat
I’ve read about 3 or 4 write ups on rudd today and I think he has come out of them smelling like roses. The only journalist who doesn’t like him, and I think there must be history there, is Alison Carabine, heard on 3AW. She is viscious for a so called objective radio journalist.
Gary, Rudd has a community cabinet on Brisbane’s northside tomorrow. These things are goodness in wrapping. Could never understand why the Tories never adopted these processes while they were in power. It will hurt the Tories more than anything else that Rudd has done so far, having democratic processes where anyone can have the ear of government..
What are the odds of the name Brian Burke being mentioned in the Poisoned Dwarf’s column tomorrow? Will he ever learn?
Nope but Keating and Latham crack a mention.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23301855-5005371,00.html
AW likes to portray Rudd’s community inclusion style as weakness. All spin, no substance. DO SOMETHING they say. He’s been voted in. Democracy has taken place, now do. Make decisions. You went to the people with ideas. Implement them.
What could be more democratic than involving the average person in gathering opinions and ideas? Truth be known they hate it that Rudd is so popular.
Thanks Frank. How come the West get Milne before we do? (You poor buggers.)
Perth Now ALWAYS posts stuff that will appear in the Sunday Crimes around 6pm Saturday Night our time – check out Joe Spagnolo crying crocodile tears cos an unamed ALP MP called him a “Ding”.
Good ol’ Glenn sticking up for his mate. Costello couldn’t win the next election for the Libs if Rudd was found in bed with a friend’s wife. Costello is as popular as dog droppings on a shoe.
Why people believe Rudd will be blamed for this economic situation is beyond me. what Milne fails to realise I think is that people were hurting economically before the last election. It certainly played it’s part.
The Entire Fairfax Radio Network (Formerly Southern Cross Broadcasting) sing from the same Hymn Book.
It’s interesting to note that a former member of SCB at one stage was former Fraser Communications Minister, Tony Staley.
They run polls on Rudd and wouldn’t you know they come out negative for him. Surprise, surprise. I’m convinced if you’re of the Labor persuasion your chances of becoming a commentator on AW is zip. You are right, they all sing from the same Hymn book.
I’m surprised 6PR employ Bob Maumill considering he’s a mate of Brian Burke
THeir Breakfast team have Andrew Bolt as a guest to discuss politics, and at the last State Election in 05 they had as political commentators Burke and NCB.
My pet name for 6PR is 6 Perth Rednecks
thanks leftards for your woeful attempt at debate
i presume you never ever look in the mirror
back tomoroww space wasters
Nemesis, can you please try and do a little bit better than #460 tomorrow (note spelling).
Notice that the allegation is against an “un-named” MP, wheras he has no compunction about naming the MP he was supposidly talking to.
Probably more than a 99% chance the whole thing is nothing but a fiction and used as a week talking point around which to build a similarly week “news”? item.
It must be too hard to actually go out and find out what is happening in the real world and write a story about that.
I think that Glen Milne’s article is in a similar vein. Quite a few words, oblique, unsourced, references to what could be possible if something or other does or does not happen.
Just woefull, forgetable trash. Similarly, Janet A.
sorry william
should read : tomorow,waste of spacers
nts; remember mr bowe is trying to encourage diversity and discusion,lefties cant deal with typo’s,facts or intellectual challenge
sol; take mogadon before posting (ensures vacous reasoning akin to leftard brain processes)
Is it just me or are the Libs around here a bit schizoid?
They (like their Parliamentary colleagues) carry-on about the brilliance of the Howard Government while simultaneously attempting to distance themselves from it. Examples include Workchoices, the Apology and Kyoto. In each case the current position of the Liberal Party is the exact opposite of Howard’s.
While it’s most satisfying watching the elephant trying to forget, I fear for their psychological well-being.
At some point they’re going to have to face-up to the fact that Howard was a waste of space, if they’re going to retain any relevance at all in the new political climate. They’ll have to adapt or die, as Darwin might have said.
The poor buggers just can’t quite bring themselves to do it. Not just yet, anyway.
That probably explains the extraordinary polling figures.
Why do I get the strange feeling that this “nemisis” is some sort of “artificial intelligence” experiment gone wrong.
It is surely impossible for a living, breathing, person to be able to spew out so much repetitive nonsense over such a long time-span.
I hope it’s batteries go flat soon, as I am heartily sick of this abject nonsense.
william
ping scorpio for nemisis
its nemesis goddammit
scorpio
HAL greets your superior intelligence
but is slightly pissed off at your spelling
LOL
More like Skynet from the Terminator.
465 Scorpio – It’s a symptom of too much “refreshment”. No-one can carry on like that without it for that long. The sad thing is though it isn’t much better earlier on in the day. I don’t know what the “refresher” is but boy powerful and plenty on hand.
Anyway, HAL9000 in the film 2001 became psychotic due to conflicting programming requirements.
Again, a bit like the Libs: Hanging onto the Glorious Howard Legacy, while simultaneously attempting to disown it.
gary
available from all good labor shops (isnt what you and the renegade leftard train run on ?)
but hey since you know it all why not tell us what is fuelling me/us/the machine
ps any chance of a response to points 1,2,4 and 5 of my @351
since you made such good gravy of point three try your hand at 1,2,4 and 5 if you have the balls
or is the truth a bit woopsy poopsy for such a bastion of ‘all that is good and true’
462, note that it was more than a year ago – what’s the bet that the unamed MP was Collie MP Mick Murray, or even upper house MP Vince Catania. And note that Spagman didn’t mention that Carol Martin is Indiginous.
Funny that he shares the same surname, though he’s not related to former City of Bayswater Mayor Adam Spagnolo.
It is quite unfair to say that Howard did nothing in his early days of office.
He dismantled the apprenticeship arrangements, stripped the dental scheme, increased application appeal fees to the High Court, stripped Abstudy of its intended purpose, decimated Research and Development a la CSIRO.
Just for a start. I am sure that the Libs on the site will recall more.
Evan, Gary,
Well put.
If I thought you would be able to comprehend my answers and then give them due consideration I would try and decipher your posting but it would be a waste of time, given your state of mind at the moment. Still haven’t denied being well and truly “refreshed”. Time for bed.
sleep well oh good and noble servant
perhaps the sleep will invigorate your synapses
and allow you to answer @351
Nemesis, whilst I am a Liberal supporter, I do wish you would cease your insolent bile.
Hmm well it appears Abetz’s grandparents were nazis. I must say as a Tasmanian it all now makes sense. Interesting he is blaming labor for the story. I have heard one or two whispers it may have come from within the liberal ranks. Well i guess this may be the last time ol eric is re elected. Doubt he will keep his top position on the senate ticket by a couple of votes this time.
Anyway has anyone seen that Brisbanes Lord mayor appears to be keepin his job in a couple of weeks.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23301566-13360,00.html
No figures however that i can find.
476 Generic Person, hail friend, you are truly a beacon of reasonableness and civility on behalf of your cause. Must say the impotent rage of ‘nemesis’ is not a good recommendation, bilious indeed.
I find the attack on Abetz just a bit extreme and tacky. the grounds for the accusation apparently are that he is ‘distantly related’ to a Nazi war criminal. I may not like him very much, but surely he is not responsible for crimes committed by some long dead relative.
478 One of the problems of a new batch of young Libs beginning university each year I suspect. They do tend to fire up, grow up and then disappear only to be replaced with more of the same the next year.
An even scarier thought is that Nemesis it may well be the next Liberal Prime Minister in training. It has all the traits of previous ones.
I’m trying to sit on my hands here, but the bad spelling’s getting to me.
460 tomoroww
461 gentle correction from William ‘tomorrow’
462 tomorow
This while bleating about misspelling of moniker and constant references to ‘leftards’ (use of that term is always a give away) not admitting errors.
As I said, I’d be sueing the private school. (Must say, generalising from one or two particulars to form a general rule, a big no-no, the worst spellers I know of personally had been educated privately).
A key paragraph in the Abetz story is:
“Rumours of the Nazi link were leaked from the Liberal Party early last week, leading the Sunday Herald Sun to contact Mr Abetz’s office.”
Why are the Libs pissing on their own?
Also, the story today about Costello by his hagiographer Glenn Milne.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23302789-5001030,00.html
I got the sense that Costello was offerred nothing in the commercial world. Obviously, the merchant banks want deal makers, not bus drivers.
Basil Fawlty @ 479
the grounds for the accusation apparently are that he is ‘distantly related’ to a Nazi war criminal. I may not like him very much, but surely he is not responsible for crimes committed by some long dead relative.
No, but he is reponsible for associating with war criminals and aiding and abetting war crimes.
GG @ 483 – You’re right the Cossie’s phone hasn’t been ringing off the hook with job offers. He’s headed back to the bar, though that prospect may have him reconsidering staying on in the hope of being drafted leader……eventually.
Same story for Lord Lunchalot. Nobody wants him, except maybe, possibly, if nothing better turns up, Natasha’s hubby and, wierdly, Nick Bolkus.
Milne’s at it again… this time SWan used to smoke dope at Nambour High, and had a first marriage that’s not in Who’s Who?…
As he and Rudd were both a school together – 30 years ago – what did and does Rudd know about all this?
Cover up?
Please stop. It hurts!
BB,
Piers on Insiders was very circumspect about drugs, the 70s and all that. Wonder why?
yo zoom
labor blog central is up early today
you are a petty little hack arent you-though glad you are pedantic enough to pick up my (intentional) spelling mistake,you simply can not answer or debate any of the issues i raised at @351 or others for that matter
ps did the “menice” get under your skin, or the fact that someone has a different view to your orthodoxy
the presumptive behaviour shown here is exactly what the liberal party was accused of in power
have any of you considered that in fact i may be an alp insider trying to rouse yourself and your compadres from your hubristic and introverted ramblings.
there is work to be done,ideas to debate,innovations to be tested-if the level of debate on this site remains stagnant-you might as well talk to yourselves in the mirror if its consensus you are after
basil
good to see your sense of “fair play” re Abetz is way beyond others here-well done that you can show some compassion
ps piss poor attempts at insults- ive heard better at the ladies auxillary
“Fight Club” Milne with yet another nonstory.I think these stories hurt him more.As my Granny says “he is just a little man who is after big attention”.
nemesis, which bit was piss poor as you so eruditely exclaimed? Was it the impotent bit, I can change that to limp dick if you prefer. However that presumes you are of the male gender in the first place.
Milne’s good for a laugh, nothing else.
GG #486: yes, I noticed that. “Pies” Akerman going all quiet on something.
It just annoys me that Milne actually thinks this kind of rubbish – rubbish under any definition – is interesting.
“What did Rudd know?”… drumroll… dark music… pfffht.
After having his “big Burke story” hit for six Milne is attempting to make headlines each week. He is a sh.. stirrer for the Libs and nothing more. Which Lib is feeding him?
Good old Hanoi Piers, reckon all those years of peruvian marching powder must have played havoc with the neurons, managed to be as obnoxious as ever this morning. Thank dog for George Mega, rational and calm as ever. Miss Mattie Price tho!
Piers was put back in his box a number of times this week on Insiders. He looked chastened and had no come back when challenged. What a goose.
basil
exhibit A
“376
Basil Fawlty Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
374 Harry, don’t tempt fate, it will crawl out from under its rock soon enough!’
good to see you can constructively engage in debate.
And I was right wasn’t I? You did crawl out from under the rock, just like the venomous little spider you are!
Gary,
Piers could not sustain his opening par from his oped piece today so basically sulked throughout.
“AFTER 99 days of the Rudd government, Australia is in its worst political position since the Whitlam Government crisis days.”
Just a little disconnected from reality I would say.
496 Basil Fawlty – Nemesis is good at one thing, and I know because I’m as “guilty” as anyone, he is adept at sucking people in to responding to him. There is one way of ridding ourselves of this person or of changing his/her way of communicating his/her ideas and that is to ignore him/her until his/her postings show sensible debate.
basil
har de har har
glad i got your strap-on in a knot
gary
quick ask william to ban me
Isn’t it sad that we have a bunch of conservatives openly hoping Rudd fails to achieve his sensible goals for Australia? We see it here and on shows like Insiders with Piers. It shows the low quality people supporting the Libs. Not all supporters of course but a bunch of hard heads that will stop at nothing to regain power.
496 Basil Fawlty – I’m sure you realise I’m not asking anyone to ban anyone here by what I’ve said at 498.
This is my favourite Glenn Milne article, written after the Bali conference.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22932363-5007146,00.html
Such blatant arse-licking was quite amusing at the time, it must not have got him the response he wanted from the government which is why he’s digging the dirt now.
gee gary
you are very selective about what and when and with whom you debate
remember @351
5 points of discussion
you answered one point only (3) and then turned and started attacking me.
i presume from your inabilty to debate the others points that they are totally correct and henceforth i will refer to you as cherrypicker
anyone willing to front up to the plate re @351?
or is it a bit close to the truth
Gary,
Don’t feed trolls. It is the equivalent of arguing with a known dickhead in real life. They beat you every time because they reduce you their level and are far better at being a dickhead than you will ever be.
Cheers.
Gary,
Don’t feed trolls. Just ignore.
That’s my intention GG.
Hmmmm
1.the unions want heads to roll ,b bennett etc
Not sure what that means
2.now that their is no enemy the next natural progression is to attack oneself for supremacy of ideology-the greens are ready to blindside labor at every turn
Not sure what that means
snip
4.factional warriors-d mighel,j robertson etc
Not sure what that means
5.the proven venality of the electorate- it remembers the $ not the “ahs’
most of labors win was finessed via the youth vote who were enamoured by St Kev-give em a few years of pain and they will be begging “uncle howie” to lead em out the wilderness (back to the good times that they remember under the libs)
This has been trotted out by a few Fibs on various forums. Assumes 2008 will be like 1990 or something. Real problem more likely to be stagflation. Middle aged also voted overwhelmingly for Labor. Fibs are the ones in trouble with only oldies favoring them. good times under the Fibs eh? with 10 interest rae rises on the trot what good times exactly were they?
“Sydnet Voted Worlds Best City”. Well, well and I thought it was a basket case. There you go.
Make that Sydney
What good times were they Thom?
They were the good times when shareholders, employers and CEOs could become wealthier through government-sanctioned exploitation and insecurity of working people.
What good times were they Thom? They were good times when one could divide and conquer for one’s own political gain.
Gary Bruce (510) I don’t understand what you mean. The practice of politics is and always has been about division and conquest. If you are suggesting the Liberal Party has participated in the practice, then I would agree. But where does that get you?
David, the Libs made an art form out of the practice. It became the main game. Not good government IMHO.
I dont think Eric Abetz is by any means responsible for the actions of his relatives. The point i was making is that Abetz is no greenie socialist nor even a wat u would call small L liberal. His politics is a little (well lot) on the Neo Conservative side. I was simply remarking on this very interesting coincidence.
You see as a Tasmanian i also get the the distinct hnour of getting to hear him alot more than you mainlanders. As im sure for example people in South Australia get the fortune of hearing Downer or minchin more than the rest of us.
GB thanks for the clarification. It will be interesting to see whether the government which supplanted ‘the Libs’ makes an ‘art form’ of the practice. I surmise its longevity might depend upon it.
We’ll see won’t we? I think the Libs are much more skilled at it though.
486
GG
This may explain about “Pies” on the drug issue.
Read from page 35 of 106 or actual hansard page 7605 of 15th October 2002.
Looks like Latham nick named him “Cokey”
Read this page and the next one.
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr151002.pdf
Checked out Otto Albetz on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Abetz
Strangely, under “Decendents”, they only listed one. Eric, a member of the Australian Senate for the Liberal Party.
486
GG
Actually go back one page as well to 7604.
This paragraph on page 7605, describes “Pies” journalistic style well.
Unfortunately, it is still the same, if not worse.
#518…
I found that curious, too. If you look at the editing history the mention of Eric Abetz was inserted only today. It was then removed by someone. IT was then re-inserted by the original author. All today.
I’m in two minds about Abetz’s “links” (if you can call them that) to Nazisim.
Mostly I think it’s irrelevant and stupid to bring up not only things that happened 60 and 70 years ago, but things that happened to the subject’s grandfather’s brother(!) for Chrissake.
This is the kind of gutter journalism that Milne relies on to dredge up something… anything… on Rudd…. from as far back as he (Milne) needs to go. Today’s exercise referred to Swan’s first (and discreet) wife, his dope smoking and his second wife’s pregnancy at the time of their marriage. Milne didn’t seem to care too much about this, but made reference to the fact that Rudd and Swan were alumni of the same school and… What did Rudd know?????? about Swan’s first marriage, dope smoking etc.
A couple of weeks ago Milne wrote one of his neo-Burkegate columns and, although it sank like a lead balloon, he referred to “the cover-up” often being more of a sin than the actual “crime”. Now, we could read a “Woodward-Bernstein” fantasy on the part of Milne into this reference, or we could take him at his word. It seems Milne will continue to dredge up embarrassing references to Rudd’s (and others’) previous lives in the hope of getting oneof them to deny it. Once it is denied, then we have a cover-up, which Milne is on record as regarding as worse than the crime.
So, while Milne’s articles lately have been pretty mediocre, if not stultifyingly irrelevant, his agenda is not so much to shame but to trip-up his victim into a denial. We saw this with the “emails” imbroglio subsequent to the Burkegate articles, with Chris Pyne (among others) asking Rudd careful questions as to whether he had any more emails. Well, maybe they were fishing expeditions, and maybe the public not only does not care, but doesn’t mind Rudd being tainted at all (if last year’s opinion polls are any guide), but the Opposition and friends are out to trip Rudd up and catch hi in a “lie”, even if it’s only just the possibility of a lie.
Likewise with Abetz, whoever leaked the story (and it’s supposed to have come from the Lberal Party) seems hell bent on the same thing.
It’s dirty, it’s gutter politics and it’s awful to read. Just as Rudd is not responsible for what Swan did or did not do 30 years ago, Abetz is in no way responsible, or indeed answerable for what his grandfather’s brother did 60 years ago. Neither stories have one iota of relevance to today, or even to the past of these men.
I never thought I’d feel sorry for Eric Abetz, but there you go… I do.
bushfire bill
well said
it seems not all on this blog have ideological blinkers
perhaps you could give them lessons
mr bill
BB,
Great post.
There’s something curious about that phrase “The coverup’s worse than the crime”. We hear it so often that most nod and say, “Yes. that’s right.”
We are therefore primed when a “cover-up” – which could range from an outright lie about the events in question, to a momentary loss of memory, to a confusion about the question and so on – is found.
We are automatically on hair-trigger about “cover-ups” because that’s how we’re told to react to them. But what about cover-ups that aren’t cover-ups? What about “cover-ups” where there’s no crime? For example, a cancelled meeting between Rudd and Burke in Perth in 2005 is no crime. I don’t give a hoot in hell whether Burke was a “convicted criminal” or not. If meeting with people who’ve done time was a crime then I think we’d all be in jail, including Howard, Costello, and all the other bigwigs from politics and society.
But as soon as there’s a whiff that the victim is trying to worm his or her way out of such “accusations” suddenly we have a cover-up, which (Milne tells us) is worse than the crime. In fact, in Milne’s view, a cover-up can transform an innocuous act into a crime, by virtue of its being uttered. An accidental misrepresentation about the alleged act can turn innocence into suspicion, which, again the view of the Milnes of this world, is tantamount to guilt (even if the victim is only guilty of clumsiness of ineptitude). Being primed by the Milnes of this world into believing that the cove-up is worse than the crime, the idea is that we all start to point our fingers.
That such gutter tactics are employed by perhaps the most demonstrably disgusting member of the journalism profession, someone who while drunk got up on national television and assaulted the presenter of the show and then who persisted in pressing home his attack, is perhaps the thing that gets me the angriest. That and Milne’s pat answer to these facts being, “Well yes, but I’m not putting myself up for Prime Minister, am I?” really get my blood boiling.
The Abetz story and the Swan story are all over Fairfax papers now. This is what we get for allowing ourselves to be tittilated by scandal rumours. And all from the poison pen of righteuous drunkards like Milne and holier-than-thou pontificators from the backrooms of the Liberal Party. If there is a God of Kharma, I hope she’s watching.
BB,
You are right. But, unfortunately the increase in the speed of communication through personal phones, the internet, hidden cameras means that no one is ever going to be fit to fill any office ever again.
Look at the David Hicks scenario where someone who has done hard time and (seems) to be trying to get his life together is being continually harassed because of his “News” value.
Milne and co need to be more and more spectacular with their deviancy to be employable (relevant).
bushfire bill
i am sure a site like this would appreciate your musings
http://www.newmatilda.com/polliegraph/index.php
as a bonus no-one is abusive and surprise surprise all views are tolerated
You are right BB. But it is precisely this kind of shallow and witless rumour-mongering that sustains the current Australian political media cycle. (Or at least the mainstream cycle.) There really are very few msm commentators or analysts who bother with objectivity, the exploration of themes, the laying out of an historical context, or, dare I even utter the word, facts when putting together their stories.
Glenn Milne is a tragi-comic example of the sclerotic mediocrity weakening our capacity (and deadening our desire) for sophisticated debate in this country about the big and complex problems confronting us (water, global warming, Aboriginal disadvantage, homelessness, housing affordability, etc.). This mediocrity diverts us from the deep, democracy-nourishing value of debate conducted in a mature manner with the best outcomes in mind (i.e. not point scoring, scandal unearthing, or the provision of, as you say, titillating fodder for Sunday morning cafe conversations).
A further comment on mediocrity: It is no surprise to me that Janet Albrechtsen, among others, has been so desperate since the election to push her elite-equals-bad mantra. For the opposite of elite is ordinary and ordinary is the status quo illusion that allows her to lunch with friends in Bronte while urging single-income families on the poverty line in Macquarie Fields to rise up against the elite (whoever they be). Until now, the balance has been just right for this abject and insidious hypocrisy to flourish. Howard encouraged it; I hope Rudd will help us to wash it all away.
Inner Westie
A bit of elbow grease is required to wash away the skid mark from our society.
Alas, the stain will remain.
Bushfire Bill, fine posting. I can’t actually work out why anyone takes Milne with anything other than a van load of salt, let alone Akerman or Albrechtson. I also can’t work out why Milne and Akerman appear on Insiders. It’s not as though they have anything meaningful to say politically. I wasn’t aware of the Swan story being in the Fairfax papers. Didn’t see anything on it in the “Sunday Age”. Anyway, given the primary,TPP and PPM numbers currently, it would seem they labour in vain. Perhaps Kharma is watching.
Rudd and Swan were alumni of the same school and… What did Rudd know?????? about Swan’s first marriage, dope smoking etc
As I understand it there’s a 2 or 3 years age difference between them, so presumably there was the same separation at school. I can’t for the life of me remember anything about anyone 2 or 3 years ahead or behind me at boarding school where we probably knew more about our peers than might be the case in a regular high school.
Bushfire Bill @ 524
If meeting with people who’ve done time was a crime then I think we’d all be in jail,
I believe that Rudd would have done better by making a big show of meeting Burke when he was last in Perth and then making it clear he was elected to governed for all Australian, even those who’d messes up. First, it’s true, second it would put this nonsense to bed for most people, though not bottom feeders like Milne. Not that it matters. I suspect very few folk give a monkeys.
The Abetz link should not used against him. Modern society should not punish one’s relatives for one’s descendent’s crimes. Heck, we are nation that was founded as a penal colony, is that allowed to be held against the nation as a whole?
531 BS Fairman, the Abetz story is just another example of the Liberals behaving badly and turning on each other. Just rubbish not worth commenting on. What made me suspicious initially was that the Liberal trolls were introducing the story on this blog.
steve
the tinfoil is tearing
BS Fairman, have just re read the Reserve Bank Boards reasons for the last interest rate rise and they seem very confident that inflation will be peaking in March and it should be all downhill thereafter. Tanner said today he is expecting the surplus to be bigger than expected and the pork barreling of the last government is going to be cut to shreds. Should be the most interesting budget since the man with no economic credentials leapt out of the Dollar Sweets junior barrister job to alleged Treasurer 12 years ago.
532
steve
Good observation.
535 It was our old mate here, Steve K:
412
nemesis Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 10:16 pm
ah
labor blog central has come online
what worthy pronouncements shall issue forth tonite zoom
perhaps outright praise for the attack on abetz or a half-hearted defence of corruption is us (oops i meant nsw labor)
steve
context please!
i was referring to zoom
you my old chum
are part of the cabal
i fortunately am not beholden to ideology or party politics
The Liberal trolls not only were the ones to introduce it, they kept banging on about it even when we clearly weren’t interested.
(Noticed also that certain points of view were attributed to posters which were not expressed by them).
Surely the RBA has to allow time for the last two (three, counting the bank’s own grab) rate rises to work in the market. To impose another rate rise now in view of the nose-dive in the stock markets would appear to be perilous economics. If indeed they expect inflation to start to ease soon, then surely it is time to ease up on the levers.
Milne doesn’t care about the original acts. He only care when someone tries – or can be said to have tried – to cover them up.
The slightest loss of memory, the slightest mistake, one errant email, fax or phone call will be pounced on as proof that smoke exists, so where’s the fire? Once the public has been conditioned to the cover-up being the thing, not the act itself, the theory goes that they’ll get interested, eventually.
The day after Milne’s first Burkegate article there was a barrage of questions from the Opposition in Question Time. Quite forensic they were.
A week later, and Milne had been through the travel diaries held at Parliament House. One… two…
He found that Rudd’s diary said he was in Hong Kong, when he was in Perth (for Senator Cook’s funeral). Now, he was originally supposed to be in Perth with Burke and the journalists, then he cancelled (far to chummily, according to some) citing a “stuff-up” from Foreign Affairs as the reason. He told Burke in an email that he had to be in Hong Kong. So did he go to Hong Kong, as his travel diaries said he had? No! He was in Perth, ostensibly for the funeral.
The clear implication was that Rudd had falsified his travel diaries to say he was in Hong Kong, while he snuck into Perth to meet with Burke, even though his excuse for being in Perth was Cook’s funeral. Are youse all following this?
It’s not the act, it’s the cover-up, Milne reckons. That is his stated position.
If he can cause some confusion regarding Rudd real whereabouts on the Saturday in question, cross-correlating travel diaries with Rudd’s verbal answers in QT, adding in his emails, and showing some alleged discrepancy, then (in Milne’s fevered mind) the cover-up is established. A simple trip to Hong Kong, three years ago, interrupted by the funeral of a dear friend on the same Saturday that Rudd was originally supposed to meet with Burke suddenly becomes a hanging offence.
OK, so it didn’t work this time. But there’s always tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. Dredge up something on Swan and tie in Rudd because he went to the same school. Does anyone here not believe that right now, up in the back-blocks of Queensland there isn’t some old hack, hired in on a contract, trying to find a mutual friend of Rudd’s and Swan’s who’ll spill the beans on their drug and sexed crazed surfing safaris together? They sent someone to dig out the Eumundie eviction “facts” and tried to tip a bucket over Rudd last year over it. Why not the Rudd-Swan beach crawl in the summer of 1978?
Surely someone will stump up with a lurid story? In Milne World, remember, it doesn’t matter what happened thirty years ago, but it does matter if someone today is lying about it. And of course Milne himself, the uber-coiffed, snappy dressing drunkard (sadly prone to a little biffo in public, but he doesn’t want to be Prime Minister), will be the sole arbiter (well, him, Chris Pyne and maybe “Pies” Akerman) of whether anyone’s telling lies and the morals that lie behind it. That goes without saying.
As the plan goes, Milne’s Sunday articles will morph into an Inquisitorial grilling in Question Time the day after and maybe on the Tuesday as well. It’s the old “one-two” in action. One in the guts and then the uppercut. If not this week, then next week, or the week after, or maybe next year. But sometime.
So, call the above the product of my own fevered imagination, but for the life of me I can’t think of any other reason why these articles have appeared just out of the blue.
I know Milne’s an idiot, and I know he’s a sanctimonious pipsqueak, but he still has a few functioning brain cells even after all those Scotches and he’s not actually stupid (although, does he not allow himself to be used like an old rag?).
Something co-ordinated is going on. The whiff of a smear and innuendo campaign is too strong, like that dead possum under the floorboards that you can’t find, no matter how hard you look. But you know it’s there.
Otherwise these stories, and their timing, just make no sense.
539 Basil Fawlty, I believe there will be one more interest rate rise from the Reserve bank in March closely followed by one more from each of the lenders due to their exposure to the sub prime fiasco. Hopefully that will be the extent of the anti inflation medicine to fix up the worst of Howard’s legacy. Other measures such as the spending cuts in wasteful areas will do the rest it seems.
While I am no great fan of Wayne Swan, It’s crap to go on about what he did in his youth!
O dear he smoked a joint and had sex in his younger days, I’m outraged for these have no impact on his currant role.
The band Tool has a song which goes.
“If you are against drugs, go home, take out all your records and throw them out for all those artist were real high on drugs”
I’m not condoning drug use, but I know very successful people who have done things in their youth or have in their private lives had situations which would be condifered unprofessional yet these people are trusted to run companies and make a contribution to society.
Message to Wayne Swan.
The first thing you should cut funding to is the Disability Employment Providers, they are a complete waste of space.
On Interest rates, I went to an auction yesterday and all I can say is the market is showing little sign of slowing, I’m tipping two more rate rises this year.
Good points BB, so you might say that Milne is the prawn in the curtain rod left behind by the rodent?
537 [you my old chum
are part of the cabal]
Really? Sure you haven’t got it back to front. Do you realise your side is not in power any more? Would it not be more correct to say the liberal Trolls form a cabal?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cabal
Plus having more than one marriage is not that uncommon in politics. Isn’t Nelson is on his third?
Plus given that surveys suggest approx. 50% have attempt at some stage to smoke dope, I would be very surprised if there were not more cases that Milne will disclose as some great sin of the past.
For the record, I was once done by the police for rolling past a stop sign.
“trying to find a mutual friend of Rudd’s and Swan’s who’ll spill the beans on their drug and sexed crazed surfing safaris together?’
Probably see Rudd’s approval rating go up another 10 pints, like it did after the stripper story.
bushfire bill
the point of journalistic integrity is to have FACTS not innuendo
milne’s campaign against rudd has been almost pathological, as early in the Rudd rise to power milne tried to nail him,as did various posters on this and other blogs.
Milne’s credibilty was trashed then and his failure to”hit the target” has led to ever madder scribblings
totally irrelevant i believe the abetz article was an attempt to restore some credibility
he truly is a sad little man
Basil Fawlty, one point Rudd did make today, in Brisbane, was that australia has the second highest interest rates in the world due to Costello’s neglect. I don’t think that he likes them to be that high and once inflation is back under control, a shift downwards can be expected but certainly not before inflation is strangled.
steve
i do recommend alcan extra strength aluminum as it stops those “rays”
and as an added bonus it is easy to fit over ones head
550 Nemesis, sorry I only speak English or German – Tory speak is meaningless to me, and I have no interest in whatever it is that 550 means to you.
On interest rates the RBA seem to use kid gloves, always 0.25% rises, one after the other, 12 in a row now.
Surely if you wanted to put the skids on spending or send a real message the rises should be higher. Or are they scared of increasing them too much and creating another recession we had to have. Either way just because they are on the RBA board does not mean they know what they are doing.
But when you try to control something there inevitably has to be movements in both directions, both up and down, their pussyfooting suggests a lack of confidence.
No 549
Steve, get off the blame Costello bandwagon. The resources boom and high oil prices have been fuelling inflation for a number of years. I think it’s a fallacy to argue that infrastructure and skills investment will automatically solve the inflation problem given that consumer spending has also been rising at astronomical rates.
Arbie Jay, a pathetic performance by the RBA…..I don’t like the game they play!!!
Incremental adjustments are a slow death that could have been avoided, but the tread softly approach is somewhat disingenuous, as will be proven.
What gets me is the reference to historical economics per se…..this is different times and the dynamics are not being fully recognised!
Look at the good old USA….interest rates going through the roof???
It’s kind of like the wave is too big so it is best to flick out….no balls!
oy GP
im the resident “troll” here according to zoom,steve and a few others
but others know the truth
Pod
i truly do pity the poor buggers like glen and steven kaye to name but a few
dealing on this forum
trying to stimulate some lateral thinking is hard
how in hell some innocent poor bugger is going to get oxygen is incredible
if the kneejerk labels is applied and assidiously followed
to you glen i (conditionally)apologise,steven kaye you deserved every last insult
Nemesis whilst we hold similar ideological perspectives, your errant behaviour is doing yourself a disservice.
Water Matters. SA.
I was troubled by my neigbour’s immoderate use of bore water.
A conversation with a staffer for Gail Gago, South Australia, a couple of weeks ago gave me rest. Gago is in charge of bore water matters, as it transpires. Not Carlene Maywald, the Minister for other types of water.
No wonder Kev and Penny are into the 100th day of sorting it out.
My immediate area is not an aquifer, but is fed by falling water.
It is saline, so no use to anybody much. Except, because we are on sand, in my area by the beach, the salinity is not retained. It drains. Yes, it does yellow the grass, if directly sprayed, burns leaves on plants. But does not accumulate, as it would do on clay soil.
So the grass recovers. The plants would take a little longer, if they survived.
The unfortunate thing is that draining the bore supply affects all users of the bore water in the area.
That is, it will run out. Not to be replenished until and unless it rains.
The neighbour has been, since 6.00 pm and is still, running his bore. With the watering leads going to his other neighbours.
A changed note in the sound alerted me. The electric pump is running.
No water is being pumped.
Guess Gail Gago’s staffer was correct.
Piers
your next column awaits
why dally here
Nemesis whilst we hold similar ideological perspectives
oh no we dont rightard
Clearly I made a bad assumption then, nemesis.
Bushfire Bill @ 540 -
Think you’re right. The problem with Rudd is that he has a tendency to over elaborate when he deals with the Milne type rubbish. For example, on the strip joint caper all he needed to say was that he didn’t know what it was when they got there and once he realised he had one drink and left, which by most third party accounts is about all that happened. Instead we got the tale about being drunk as a lord and how he rang the missus to confess all, etc. Totally unnecessary and just gives the bottom feeders more stuff to work on.
Mexican Beemer @ 543 – Place 2 doors up had its first open inspection today. Estimate at least 30 groups went through which is slightly more than when next door was sold in mid December. I’d be very surprised if this one also isn’t snapped up by mid week. So it looks as if neither interest rates, petrol prices or post Christmas empty wallets are having an effect yet.
Bushfire Bill
I dips me lid. So insightful, so articulate.
You should be the columnist, not the Milnes, Albrechtsens and Awfulmans.
Crikey
have followed your “boring” escapades with much glee
perhaps a scale model of the problem might help?
my personal suggestion is to drain a 4 litre cask with the neighbour and say
at the end “well mate until we go to the bottlo we aint got anymore bit like whats happening to the bore i hear” then leave him the inner(bladder) as a pillow to reflect on this wisdom
BB and MayoFeral
Do support the notion that Kev should not go overboard on explanations. Though never to the extent of Howard and Co, the never knew, never were told, cannot even remember. Just a little less information will do.
And even on consultation. At the risk of inciting the trolls, I and probably most listeners thought, amusing, Kev on Christmas morning, being unable to work out the industrial dishwasher, consulted the nation.
Kev got plenty of feedback, laughs and help, though.
Good suggestion, nemesis. But the draining of the bore will be more effective.
Then, I will, as he is a little deaf, yell ‘Well.’ Etc.
Gp
i also (very conditonally) apologise
some very nice truffles can be snuffled out of your rants
as a matter of interest @351 was more to see who is dogmatic (and a tad obsessive) and whether there was a sense of “achievement” from the leftards
has any one compared rudds 100 days to gough’s and bob’s in any meaningful way
i do apologise for the some time seemingly ramble but i think only “thomarse’ had a go at 351 in earnest and hit googa gagga land real quick
Zoom
do you value freedom of speech higher than your particular dogma
One for the trolls to ponder:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/rudd-grilled-on-housing-health/2008/03/02/1204402264032.html
I’m not even sure what my particular dogma is supposed to be, Nem. Please enlighten me.
I joined the ALP to change it, not because I blindly support its every belief. I haven’t joined a faction because I value my independence too much and also have a firm belief (borne out so far) that merit will be recognised.
I also believe that a member of a party has a responsibility to criticise it (internally) – if you don’t get the truth from your friends, where will it come from?
I’m not quite sure why you’re so obsessed with me, but I suppose you know.
Oh and yes, I value freedom of speech, with the correlating resposibilities that go with, and don’t believe I’ve ever tried to deny that to anyone on this site.
If I haven’t responded to a post by you, it’s because it didn’t interest me, I didn’t understand it or it was outside of my area of expertise, nothing personal.
BTW, I asked you some questions, too and you haven’t bothered to answer them.
No 567
If that’s the case, he could start by demanding that state governments reduce their prohibitively high taxes on land and developers.
giants are involved in building houses steve?
(see previous posts re norse mythology- trolls are giants who went on to live in caves and become artisans)
doubt they have time to visit pollbludger
You had twelve years to fix that. Any more unfinished business that your side couldn’t handle?
Zoom
am formulating reply
zzzzt exterminate zzzzt
sorry wrong program wil get back to you shortly
ps you have some pretty impressive BI running there sunshine ;0
Don’t understand what you’re saying there, nem, good night.
I do wish people would stop feeding the troll.
nemesis, for me to say that I think you are a highly opinionated individual would be, I think, to substantially underestimate your feelings of self importance to yourself.
Your incredible ability to put forward an argument with absolutely no substance and to savagely tear apart the opinions of others without so much as putting forward even the remotest thread of countervailing argument are a wonder to behold.
You are reaching the stratospherical depths of masters of the art such as Piers, Bolt, JA & Co. It must give your ego a wonderful sense of achievement without which, I suspect you would fall into the pits of despair. Congratulations.
offering me job are you scorps?
Zoom
apologies i just thought after you rather savage posts
(example attached) i would play to your stereotype
444
zoom Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Nem – you, to accuse someone else of repetition!
Nice of you to suggest I possess analytical skills – sorry, I can’t return the favour.
(BTW, if I was your parents, I’d be sueing your private school, they obviously didn’t teach you spelling, grammar, punctuation OR clear thinking).
GP@569
Can rudd actually make the states reduce theses taxes ?
Why should developers pay lower taxes anyway?
Does the creation of a Dept. alleviate or exacerbate the problem?
your thoughts most respectfully you rightard trolliness
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Coffers. William’s. Nemesis.
Do it. Others have managed.
Possum has finally got around to replying to Sham-I -am. Includes great soundtrack for reading the work of Dennis or his cheersquad of trolls.
Mexican Beemer, I hope you noticed my response at 330 to you.
crikey
please,please stop being so presumptive.
btw the cask idea will work if done a few times-either way he will be too pissed to notice you turning it off anyway.
cheers
Am I presuming? About?
I have no need to be concerned about the water, as I said.
For those who would like to keep an eye on the Queensland Local Government elections on March 15.
http://qlddecides.com/
crikey
how do you know that i aint donated $100?
why did you make a statistical analysis of my 34 odd post re others earlier in the thread?
i dont have the right to post beyond a quota and prevailing dogma?
and i must pay for the privelege?
enlighten me please
GP, I feel obliged to point out again: inflation is not caused by high oil prices. It is the other way around. Strong demand for a good or service – in the absence of other factors – will cause prices to rise. Oil is not exempt from this axiom.
In fact, it can be argued that in general prices will only be able to rise when demand is sufficiently strong. Correspondingly, when demand is weak, prices will more or less automatically fall.
Rather than being a source of inflation, a fast-rising oil price is in fact a contractionary force. Increases in oil prices tend to cause a subtraction in demand for other goods and services: that is, when oil prices rise very quickly, it becomes more difficult to raise prices for other goods and services and recession can ensue, as has occurred nearly every time oil prices have suddenly “spiked” to very high levels. Think of 1973/4, 1981 and 1990/1.
We have observed a rise in the nominal price of oil in the US. But this has more to do with the decline in the value of the USD than with demand for oil or inflationary pressures in the US.
We should recall that the nominal oil price – and the prices of many other commodities – and the value of the USD move inversely to each other. The decline in a desire to hold the USD is being expressed in part in rising prices for all commodities, including oil. But the AUD oil price has not moved much because the USD has also declined against our currency.
The peculiar thing about the current situation in the oil market is that even though US demand is not growing, the oil price has still been able to climb. This is because the US has lost its role as the driver of growth in the oil market and in the world economy. The increase in the oil price is a real increase in the US and – rather than causing inflation/ expansion – is a genuine recessionary pressure in that economy.
I don’t know, nemesis.
Only you and William know.
I did not exactly analyse, merely a rough sum of the posts. I think, though not in Vera’s case, unjust to some.
I came home, read, and was struck by the vehemence and input of those who could be named as trolls.
So amused myself by counting. Posts.
Troll or not, nemesis, you achieved the highest score.
And if you have donated, you are entitled.
Cheers.
585 blindoptimist, you’re too cruel blowing away 50% of a troll’s argument in a single slap.
and if i was an unemployed anarchist
what would be my rights then
Steve
seriously ,is there like a bureau of trolls or something?
i must have missed my licence
589 Just a disaffected rump who can’t accept that they are no longer in power anywhere except the Brisbane City Council and watching the polls reflecting the increasing isolation of their brand of politics. It happens to suit me and my view of life so I don’t care really whether they are a bureau, a split individual or a whole disaffected party.
They have a licence to fight over the spoils of defeat and are behaving as a rabble individually and in parliament as an opposition. Long may they stay there. A decade and a half of opposition will mature both troll and opposition so strap yourself in and enjoy the journey, I know I will.
Anyone, it is apparent, donating or not, may contribute to this post. Anarchist, monarchist, doesn’t matter.
William at particular moments has been supported in his endeavor when the posters have chipped in.
Heavy traffic drawing on whatever his resources.
It is not William who is objecting to anyone’s input. It is me.
I just find it irritating that the Libs sweep in to the site without a thought to William’s bandwidth and costs. Or is it?
Sort of a takeover thing. Apparently, sites which are so imposed upon may actually fold. Deliberate sabotage?
Which is not what I would like to have happen. I love ythis site.
So those who can, put in a little cash.
That is all.
Nemesis, seriously mate, enough is enough.
The odd funny insult, the occasional dig, is acceptable.
However, what your persona on this blog has become is a parody of civil discourse and does you, as an individual of obvious intelligence, no justice or credit.
As a guide, I would suggest that bloggers refrain from posting anything they would be embarrased to post under their own name.
At the very least, an insult published with the courage of disclosure would deal a far more powerful blow, if that is the level of argumentation we chose to indulge in.
Thanks for your efforts CW, but I’m a bit uncomfortable with the whole moral-pressure-to-donate deal.
Nemesis, you are indeed responsible for 20 of the 93 comments on this page of the thread. That is rather too many, for what you have had to say.
Apologies, William. That I did not mean, at all.
Also, I’m no longer getting those mounting bandwidth bills I used to complain about – they were purely a phenomenon of the election campaign.
sorry william
what about the set quota deal?
or
only peddle the party/dogma/wheelbarrow line?
Fulvio
sorry didnt realise this was your blog
btw are you from the BOT (bureau of trolls)
apparently some think i need one
Licence that is
(for those that came in late)
For a person with so much advice for others you seem to be extremely reluctant to take a little yourself.
No it’s not my blog, but one doesn’t have to own a wall to recognise the grafitti on it.
Chacun a son gout….
sorry william alas didnt see @594
will get nanny to tuck me in and give some warm ovaltine and carrs table wafers
in closing may i respectfully ask
how telopea park high school ,which i attended (and was goughs alma mater)
could ever be called private school?
such insults are purile and just cause for retort
g’nite
I am aware that would be the case, William. #596
To expand a little on what I said, I have heard of sites which are overwhelmed, and by accounts, deliberately so, in an effort to bring them down.
My intention is a challenge to that kind of attempt. And I do wonder. Look at nemesis, since even then has not stopped the meaningless post.
On the other hand, he may just be nemesis.
Yes, I saw your post and agreed.
This view appears based upon the comments made by various Politicans and Public servents who impliemented the policy
I accept this view, this was one of the reasons why mantionary reporting was introduced, sadly when it comes to child abuse or domestic violence the view that what happens behind closed doors remains behind closed doors was used to hide from the problem.
The way rape victims are forced to face the offender in court is one of the reason why many rapes go unreported, and how in some cases the rape victim is cross-examinted only adds to the suffering caused by the orginal crime.
Crikey Whitey Says: @ 601,
It’s amazing that you mention that Crikey.
I was strangely enough, thinking along similar lines when I posted at 575.
My thoughts were that that individual was purposely sabotaging the blog so that people would become frustrated and lose interest in posting on the site and in reading and commenting on other posters.
When that individual started overwhelming the site with repetitive and trashy comments, there was quite a deal of informative and enjoyable traffic which very quickly dried up, basically sabotaging the blog.
I stand by my comments at 575. This individual is nothing but a self-centered troll deliberately trashing William’s excellent blog.
I appreciate everybody’s concern. Nemesis will be more economical tomorrow, voluntarily or otherwise.
For sure, Scorpio. Apart from the cost implications, which I was concentrating on, the mere trashy stuff is enough to put one off.
In fact, my post counting is evidence of exactly that. Did I take any note of. or respond to the content?
No.
I was engaged with the trash.
Now, I don’t much respond to rubbish, but I suppose that I have, actually.
Everyone (except William)
as GUSFACE
i was quite acceptable
as NEMESIS i am cause for concern
take a long long long hard look at yourselves
goodbye
Engaging, again. #606
More nonsense. As if.
Bye Bye.
I thought the Mardi Gras was yesterday…
Nemesis, your behaviour under your new name has been quite different to that under your old name. You have indeed proved something here, but it’s not what you think.
That’s a relief! LOL
Think it was, though I observed that our ABC still has not recovered, broadcast wise, Fulvio.
600 I apologise then, for my assumption…but in fairness, that should work both ways.
Interesting moves in the Libs, taking away the power of the branches, could it be that they are finally ready to accept the fact that they were unelectable thanks to the loony right fringe. And are finally ready to confront and change their public perceptions.
Will the expected bloodbath on the ASX give the Reserve Bank pause for thought on further interest rate rises. This should be enough to spook the consumer spending spree, the spectre of deflation is looming in the US.
Basil – source?
Zoom, the fact is that the measures taken so far by the US Fed Reserve (lowering interest rates dramatically esp) have had no impact on the US economy, indeed it has continued its downward spiral. The likelihood of deflation must be now considered a very real possibility. All we need now is for the oil exporting countries to demand payment in euros and it’s goodnight nurse.
On the topic of oil exporters and euros, see:
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Energy/Analysis/2007/09/10/analysis_iran_moves_to_ditch_us_dollar/6990/
The other consideration to put in the pot is the role of the Chinese.
My understanding (no source, just the ‘vibe’ over the last few months) is that one of the main sources of financial backing internationally is the Chinese.
If you’re the up and coming superpower and want to dispose of the old superpower, wouldn’t you be tempted to pull the plug on them financially?
(My son jests that he wants to rule the world when he grows up. My advice is to him is that conquest by arms is old hat – do it through control of the economy).
618 You mean like the ‘Hunt Brothers’, Zoom?
http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html
Zoom you are right when you say conquest by arms is old hat – do it through control of the economy.
Yes, Zoom, my understanding is that it is the Chinese who are propping up the US now, financing their debt borrowings. Along with the usual suspects of course, Saudis etc. Regarding your son, I really hope you didn’t name him Adolph
Aussie SX taking a beating this morning, along with most Asian markets, also bad employment figures coming out of the US. Really hope the RBA is watching!
Landslide: Sydney house values drop
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23307117-5001021,00.html
623 John of Melbourne – yes, thanks Mr. Howard for nothing.
Sorry I don’t know how to do links so have cut and paste from The telegraph
Isn’t it great to have a government that is respected on the international stage and is able to negotiate on delicate issues? My admiration for Kev rises more every day!
SCHAPELLE Corby’s chances of returning to Australia to serve out the rest of her 20-year sentence have been dramatically boosted following confidential negotiations between the Rudd Government and Indonesia.
Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus has held high-level talks in Jakarta aimed at finalising a prisoner transfer treaty with Indonesia that could see Corby return home within a year.
Mr Debus met Indonesia’s Attorney-General and Foreign Minister a week ago to hammer out details of the proposed treaty, which has languished over the past 18 months after negotiations stalled on several crucial details.
A signed treaty would allow Corby and at least three members of the Bali Nine to serve out the remainder of their sentences in Australian jails, close to family and in conditions far more comfortable than those in Bali’s Kerobokan prison.
vera Says: @ 625.
Vera, to paste a link, right click in the “adress bar” of the article to be linked to, left click on “cut”, return to the “comments window” at PB and right click where you wish to place the link and right click on paste like I have done here. Easy.
There are other ways to do it, but this is the easiest for me.
Cheers, Scorpio.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/815#comments
Zoom and Basil (618 and 621 respectively)
Its no different than when the Japanese were financing the Carter/Reagan administrations deficits in the late 70s/early 80s. What happened then was that the US used its superior political/trade clout to basically tie the Japanese into continuing to do this for fear of restrictions on their access to the US market. Called it the Plaza Accords (1984 i think).
Anyway, depends on whether or not you think the US still has that political clout to pull a similar move, it could be one of the first moves of the new regime.
Off topic but topical and interesting and relevant…
I made mention of this before – seems you can read the whole article on-line now at Scientific American
A Solar Grand Plan
A massive switch from coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power plants to solar power plants could supply 69 percent of the U.S.’s electricity and 35 percent of its total energy by 2050.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan
606
nemesis Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 am
take a long long long hard look at yourselves
“I have. Everyone has. They love it”
Nemesis’s departure needed more fist shaking, piousness and a vow of revenge.
Good point, Yo ho ho.
So the question is, would the Chinese allow their biggest market to collapse, thus damaging their own economy?
I suppose it depends how used to the benefits of a booming economy China has become and whether they are willing to bear a short period of economic loss when the result may well be that they become the ‘top nation’ at the end of it.
A risk, certainly, but a risk worth taking?
As a totalitarian society (to what extent this is true, I don’t know) they’d be likely to take a longer term view than a wussy democracy. (Don’t get me wrong, I love democracies, but short term political considerations DO get in the way of world domination).
So is the best long term option for them…
i. continuing to shore up a collapsing US economy by not pulling the plug and thus maintaining a market for their goods, so that they can continue to build (still get to the world dominance bit in the long run);
or
ii. pulling the plug, taking short term pain, and reducing the US to the same level of world playerdom as the UK currently enjoys? (so still influential, just not The Leader?)
redrum
Judging by his post at possum’s, he might have a terminal disease, seriously.
Was nemesis really gusface?? Seemed much more irrational and juvenile to me.
I have a small business and all the long-term traders are saying things have never been so quiet. add on a couple more interest rate rise and it’s pretty scary.
Jen
My business is grinding to a stop also. I’ve placed some advertising for the first time in years….bad times ahead.
Zoom
I think its a wait and see thing for the Chinese. They’d be petrified of striking to early…the USA’s economy has looked massively pear shaped before (early 1970s, early 1980s) and countries that have been financing their deficits are usually the countries that get burnt (see Europe after Nixon removed the dollar from the gold standard in 1971, and the Japanese with the plaza accords). The upper echelons who run the Chinese economy (at least, the national economy – the local govts routinely screw the economy for their own political benefit) are quite cluey on these things.
zoom @ 630 – I don’t see it as an either/or situation and I hope the Chinese don’t either.
It’s probably a moot point anyway. Successive American governments have been doing the work for them, and I’m far from convinced that any of the current presidential candidates would make the fundamental changes required to significantly turn things around. For one thing it would mean giving up much of the imperium.
If they’re smart the Chinese will be broadening their market bases ASAP. They’ve already indicated that they want to substantially increase the size of their domestic market. While that is a good move it will inevitably cause them to become less competitive at the low end of many market sectors, clothing, electronics and toys that make up the majority of their exports to the US.
Housing affordability plan announced.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/rudds-plan-for-cheaper-rentals/2008/03/03/1204402340246.html
Interesting view on corporate china and Australian resource companies here.
http://business.brisbanetimes.com.au/pulling-the-levers-in-corporate-china/20080302-1wb2.html
631 Ogmios, just had a look at the post on Possum, certainly disturbing, hope he/she is ok.
Scorpio @626
thanks will give it a try next time
Here’s a monday afternoon funny for you….
Have you seen this man? = http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/escape-of-terrorist-from-toilets-beyond-a-joke/2008/03/03/1204402346427.html
I like the pirate disguise the best
steve @ 637 – From the link:
At what point might Chinese investment in Australia become contrary to the national interest?
It would be equally valid to ask “At what point might Australian control of international resource companies become contrary to China’s national interest?”
At least the Chinese are willing to use cash to prevent potential monopolies which may strangle their national interest and not political thuggery or war.
638 It was an amazing series of posts that often were impossible to decipher, seemed far more serious than anything I have seen here before, I too hope he is OK.
Is anyone else looking forward to tonight’s Newspoll? I bet some of you are like kids at Christmas; “Santa is comin’, I hope he brings me what I want.”
643 News what? – I must admit that, although I looked forward to every poll last year, now that the election is over and a long way off, these polls mean very little to me. Mind you, if they’re like this just out from the next election I will be delighted.
I think Rudd is going to be on ACA.
643 BSF A newspoll following the record breaking nine percent ppm will create a bit of interest. I think Rudd has pretty well cut him short of oxygen with his ioo days achievements so we may well see a move towards zero for Nelson. Wonder if Sham-I-am will break open a new calculator and work out the margin of error for this poll properly.
If there is a one percent rise in Nelson PPM figure, will it be written up as a 10% rise?
Will Cardboard Kevin be included in the figures?
Will South America erupt into war? (And what is that going to do to the oil price?)
Will there even be a Newspoll?
They’ve gone monthly lately – I’m sure they’ll get back to fortnightly at some stage, just wondering whether it would be now.
Hmmm businesses slowing? My homebrew shop is doing OK, but I guess it is a counter cyclical thing–it was slow while the house building boom here was in full roar.
Possum, the online OZ says it will be released tonight at 10.30 AEST
MayoFeral at 641, I’m not sure the Tibetans would neccessarily agree with you. Also noticed the post from nemesis/gusface at Possum’s. Very disturbing, given the postings on this thread as nemesis. Nemesis, if you’re lurking, go talk to someone you trust.
Business slowing? Well, not in my line of work. Himself indoors, architect, total crap for years. At least the kitchen got redesigned and built.
B. S. Faiman. I had only limited time to notice that Chavez was rolling tanks up to the Colombian border and no time to find out what the hell was going on. He has been recently involved in getting some long term hostages released from the Maoist type guerillas. Have you any more information on what he’s up to? Of course, he may just be miffed he got well and truly done in the recent referendum on giving him rather too much power.
Ooooh Mal X.
The anticipation begins!
Anyone have a link for the Oz lead-in?
Might be worth a try to read between the lines. The Newspoll results are released to The Oz early afternoon I think.
Forget that last request – it’s just a dead link. Nice blatant attempt to generate some eyeballs for advertisers with a little hype.
Funny thing is – it’ll work because were all suckers!
I still cant believe that 35.5 percent of Australiand are morons
655
Steveo
Unfortunately I can. I see some of them every day.
Steveo. Ditto Steve K.
My spanish is not very good, so I am relying on English language sites. Colombia sent troops into Ecuador to attack FARC rebels, killing a couple of dozen as they slept. Ecuador is very unhappy about the violation of the border, Ecuador and Venezuela are allies, Colombia and the USA are allies, plus they both don’t like Chavez. Venezula and Ecuador are both oil exporters.
So fill up tonight or tomorrow, two dollar petrol might be on the cards.
Just saw Rudd on 7.30 Report. This bloke is what you see is what you get. Keerist in a hammock, what a change from Howardian double speak straight out of 1984. I may not agree with everything he’s does, but at least I don’t have to listen to the self-centred, me at any cost, twisting of words and dog whistling that characterised Howard. Despicable man. I hope the Liberals trash his legacy. Glad I got that off my chest.
Rudd’s main priority throughout the term will be to keep the people informed on the economy – who is responsible for what.
Thanks, B.S. Faiman. Interesting. The FARC have been going for a very long time. I was in Colombia in the mid 70s and you needed to be mindful of where you went and who was around, or you could wind up dead, robbed or held for ransom very easily. FARC had, of course, been going for a good deal longer than that. Of equal impotance were the emerald wars, which had been raging out in the provinces and at the time, were still raging. Easy way to get yourself killed, mining emeralds. This, in my view, relates to the early incursions of the Conquistadors into Colombia, searching for El Dorado. Well, it was there from the POV of the Spanish, but when the locals figured out what the Spanish were after, they threw the lot in a local lake. If you go to the Museo del Oro in Bogata, ther is a central vault with glass wall containing over 10,000 gold items, spoons, buttons, pins, you name it as an item of everyday use. Other parts of the museum have the most exquisite examples of all the gold working techniques known today. Also when I was there, parts of some of the cities such as Cartagena, would be shut down electronically as much as 3 times per day, in order for the ‘American’ parts, the hotels, where the weekend coke and dope deals were happening, to continue.
Kina, he did it nicely.
Kina, but strategically. He’s certainly smart.
I must confess to a sneaking admiration for Chavez, he knows how to get up the nose of that fascist Bush and Co, and of course the reality is that he has OIL to flaunt in the face of the Yanks.
In a first (as far as I can remember) the Australian has a headline up: “See the latest Newspoll at 10.30pm”.
Can’t ever remember them advertising a coming Newspoll for the on-line edition in the past.
Looks like Exxon Mobil has upset him with some court cases.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/10/venez.exxon/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
How come all this news was so slow getting out?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/03/ecuador.colombia/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
Nobody on the ground there, I guess. Plus it is not like PR to English speaking world is high priority.
BSF that second CNN link seems to be half news, half spin too. A very sus report if ever I saw one.
Might be why it is getting low play….
Hmmm, interesting post Steve. Wouldn’t neccessarily give you 2 bob for what’s reported out of South Amarica. Colombia used to colour itself pink (I kid you not) along with pink for the U.S. on their national T.V.. as bastions of democracy. They’re probably still doing it. A continent of very strange and extreme political positions, a lot of it fueled by the U.S. ghastly interventions to secure its own interests, see Pinochet’s Chile.
Milne is showing serious signs of having a duel personality. One day he’s sliding around in the gutter and the next he’s kissin’ Labour’s arse. Fawkner (a man that I very much admire) couldn’t help but be flattered by this piece.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23307664-33435,00.html
Well any predictions on Newspoll? I think the last one was nearer to the bottom end of the MOE range – so I’m guessing something nearer the Morgan poll. I’m tipping 60/40.
Can’t recall an opposition leader looking so dead in the water.
Make that ‘dual’. I don’t think he’s got the balls for a duel….unless he’s had a skin full.
665
Bushfire Bill Says:
650…snap!
My god, what a crock that garbage is from Milne. I reckon Faulkner would see this nonsense for what it is…garbage. I don’t think Faulkner is a fool. Milne clearly is.
Has everyone gone off to do other stuff, like go to bed or something? You lucky bastards!
Yes. We are all in bed. Except instead of a girlfriend I have a laptop.
What will the headline be if Newspoll is 55/45?
I actually thought the last newspoll at 57/43 would have given the libs some heart – particularily in the context of their single digit leader.
A 55/45 would put them back in game.
“What will the headline be if Newspoll is 55/45?”
‘The Night Watchman Digs In’
678 [What will the headline be if Newspoll is 55/45?]
Rabble Rewarded!
“The Locum’s miracle cure”? Dennis would be proclaiming that if the gap was to continue to close at this rate the margin will be a 70% Liberal lead by the next election.
63/37 – a new record
Actually that would a Liberal Party lead of 170% the way Dennis does his maths.
No more Mr 9%. Now he is Mr 7%.
Try
Mr 7%!
Brendan oh 7%
Beat me to it B.S. Fairman.
What an amazing situation. That leadership position better pay lots more than a shadow minister as even the most ego driven fool would not want it at this time.
7%
New thread up.