The Australian reports Newspoll has Labor ahead 63-37 on two-party preferred, with Brendan Nelson’s preferred Prime Minister rating down a further 2 per cent from last fortnight’s headline-grabbing 9 per cent. More to follow.
UPDATE: Two-party records on the Newspoll site only go back to January 1996 (the company goes back to 1985); before tonight the best result was Labor’s 61-39 from 16-18 March 2007, the top six all coming from Rudd’s killer run from March to October last year. The Coalition’s best result was 56.5-43.5 from 5-7 October 2001.
UPDATE 2: Graphic here. Kevin Rudd’s approval rating is at 69 per cent, up 1 per cent to beat the record he set a fortnight ago. John Howard’s best ratings were 67 per cent from 10-12 May 1996, and 65 per cent recorded in the aftermath of the Bali bombing on 1-3 November 2002. Pollsters other than Newspoll had Bob Hawke over 70 per cent in 1983-84. I have derived two-party figures for Newspoll from 1985 to 1995 using preference distributions from the preceding election, and none comes close to 63-37. The Coalition’s best result was 59.9-40.1 from 20-22 August 1993, immediately following John Dawkins’ horror post-election budget. Labor’s was 58.0-42.0 from 12-14 June 1987, at the onset of the campaign for the July 11 election.
UPDATE 3: Rather embarrassingly, this post originally claimed Brendan Nelson’s approval rating was 7 per cent. This figure is in fact his preferred prime minister rating. Nelson’s approval rating is 29 per cent, which is not much to write home about but nowhere near the record-setting level of his preferred PM rating.
836 Comments
7%. Turnbull must be thanking his lucky stars he lost the leadership ballot.
There is actually 7% of the population that supports Nelson. Bullbutter.
I find Nelson to be a bit of a schmuck, but now I’m almost feeling sorry for the guy.
Brendon
Ooh…7
You can kiss the chance of a Liberal byelection win goodbye for a few months…… Costello and Downer might have to get used to those back bench seats for a little longer.
He’s as popular as the interest rate. Tomorrow, less so.
The trouble for Turnbull and his party is that the next election might see them blown off the political map altogether which would make his chances of EVER being in government again let alone becoming PM nothing but than a dream.
Dear, oh, dear, poor, poor Nelson!!!
Damn – and here I was thinking Night Watchman was a good nick for Nelson because that’s what number 9(%) batsman do.
But who sends number 7 into that role!
Fair dinkum – these guys need to be more considerate.
Record breaking stuff folks – 63 is the highest headline poll figure anywhere over the last 20 odd years from a quick squiz at the database, and 7% is just ammo for humour.
So let me get this straight…
Line 10 people up.
7 prefer Kevin Rudd as PM, 3 people prefer someone else (except for one recalcitrant leg which prefers Brendan Nelson).
Note my new “update”: 2PP is easily a Newspoll record, going back to 1996.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Costello chose to stick it right up the party by quitting in the very near future regardless. He might not give a toss about the result of a byelection as he feels totally duped.
Nelson’s honeymoon period with the voters seems to be over. He peaked at 11% and it’s all downhill from here. And a drop from 11% down to 7% is definitely “stormed”. The MOE is going to approach zero soon, as the chance of finding an Australian who will actually say they prefer the Nightwatchman as PM becomes as remote as a monkey randomly typing The Wasteland. Dennis Shamaham has some serious humble pie to eat and I’m going to enjoy watching Possum serve it up for him!
Thanks Possum, I was wondering if 63 was a record for Newspoll.
The conclusion: This is no ordinary rebuilding phase for a recently defeated government. The Coalition is in dire straits. Only the most hardcore, die hard supporters are left clinging to the battered ship, and even some of those are dropping off as each week passes. And this is despite a number of interest rate rises.
Anyone care to take a stab at how Sham-I-am will try and spin THAT.
On another note the Rudbot’s humanity chip seems to be getting daily upgrades – who would have though common sense could be so popular eh?
By the way – has anyone else here been tracking what’s going on at the NCA in Canberra? I heard some mildly encouraging news today that makes me think there’s more than just politics going on. If no-one else is interested than I’ll leave it alone.
Mr 7% – Why does this man bother?
To Chris B #2
Is Nelson’s ratings within the margin of error of Dennis Shanahan? It could be 0% approval.
Amazing, another significant movement in the Locum’s PPM statistic!
Maybe we should just call him PPM (Parts Per Million!).
12
Diogenes
Some honeymoon! He didn’t get so much as a peck on the cheek let alone a roll in the hay before he was consigned to the dog house.
Gawd Almighty, the Libs. might as well just shoot themselves. Nice on top of the stuff on the redoutable Joh Bjelke Peterson’s reign in Q/L/D..
15
onimod
I’m interested. What have you heard?
Bjelke Peterson was so stupid that even though he was undoubtedly corrupt he had very little to show for it. Gough was right when he called him a BBB.
Why not let Dolly and Cossie quit and lose the two by-elections? It gives them an excuse to shaft Nelson when they lose two unloseable seats. My info is that Dolly’s “boutique advisory company” is a done deal and he’s going to quit soon no matter what.
And the libs took the p#ss out of Crean……hahahahaha
Everything the Liberals have done this year actually makes sense in the prism that find themselves. The whole “Cardboard Kevin” and Nelson’s woeful Sorry address were both not aimed at the 63%. It was aimed the 37% or so, the die hards who are the only source of funds and the only one’s who are going to man the phones in party HQ. These are extremely dark days for Menzies’ party who are fast becoming their own forgotten people. It must be absolutely heartbreaking for those who have right wing TB*.
* As a former Left wing TB (true believerism) sufferer, I have had my share of dark days. On a purely emotional level, I do feel sorry for them as it does make you feel like s***.
Simon the Mighty compared to Brendon the Mild.
onimod Says: If no-one else is interested than I’ll leave it alone.
I am..spill
Looking on the bright side in this sea of negativity, at least the nightwatchman is 7% above the figure where the Liberals would be tempted to dump him!
Steve @ 12 – I’m still not convince Cossie is going, and nor is his little mate Milne. As I see it there have been no offers, lucrative or otherwise, from the big end of town and there probably will be few calls for a junior barrister in tawdry anti union bashing cases, so he may think hanging around on the off chance that the party will draft him as leader in sheer desperation is the best of a poor lot of options.
And re the other thread:
Dual or duel, maybe Milne has finally sobered up enough to realise his mate Cossie is stuffed so he’d better start mending fences with the new (gender neutral) blokes. However, I suspect there’ll be many frigid days in Hell before that happens.
Steve – what’s your connection – I’m a local in the building industry….
I found a connected experienced local who has just been hired (yep – hired, not fired) who gave me a lot of confidence that the current actions will be swift, direct and the outcome will provide more certainty, though possibly less scope. None of this is direct, of course – he can’t talk openly and I don’t fell the need to put words into his mouth.
My initial view was that the actions were a little bit of a blight on the Rudd team as it was so apparently politically biased. Of course there’s a little resistance to the inquiry and it’s terms, but it’s my impression that the outcome has basically been predetermined, to the point of preliminary implementation already starting.
One of my long shot guesses (and there’s no evidence yet, is that the remnants of the NCA will be under the wing of either Infrastructure (Albanese) or PM&C.
A lot of this is educated guesses and supposition – do you (or anyone else) have anything to add?
those of us who predicted 100 Labour seats were only a month or so out lol
incumbency should never again be underestimated in this country of easily porked and worked electorates.
24
B.S. Fairman
What you say is true and I also have some sympathy for the grass roots Lib supporters seeing their party in this state. But it should be remembered that Howard turned the parliamentary party into a nasty,divisive organisation that stomped on decency all in the name of winning. At least I can say that my party never stooped to that level whether they were on top of the mountain or wallowing through their darkest nights. If they had destroyed decency in order to win I would have dropped off in double quick time. That’s probably what’s happened here with Rudd’s popularity and the Libs being on the nose.
I wonder what Bob Brown’s preferred leader percentage would be if he was included in the question?
I wonder what Humphrey Bear’s preferred leader percentage would be if he was included in the question?
Costello will want to hide away in a corner while interest rates are still rising and housing afford-ability…..etc.
If he took the job he will have made his career one of being used from beginning to end and, tossed out like a rag doll at the end when Rudd thrashes is backside at the next election.
Only fool would take the job now… Julie?
I think there might be a lesson for the Libs here about playing golf instead of being in parliament and behaving like a disorganised spoilt rabble instead of doing their work on Fridays. With Hockey promising more of the same we can expect future Newspolls to serve up more of the same.
28
MayoFeral
I’m not convinced that the smirk is going to quit either – but when I see him on the back benches and thinking how irrelevant he must now feel as no one cares what he has to say on just about any subject then attending parliament must be like some horrible punishment.
Does anyone know when his Super ‘matures’? That would have to be a critical date if he’s not in demand in the business world. Nelson says he knows what Costello intends to do but it’s not up to him to say – he’ll leave that to Costello himself. If that’s true then there’s no way Costello intends to stay.
Diogenes @ 22 – With Dolly on board, how long do you give the “boutique advisory company”? My bet, 24 months, max, assuming neither Smith or Bolkus plant an axe in Dolly’s skull, or their own, through sheer frustration with him before it goes belly up.
If it was me, I’d rather do business with Brian Burke. He may have an ‘interesting’ past but at least he’s passably competent.
Further update added: “Kevin Rudd’s approval rating is at 69 per cent, up 1 per cent to beat the record he set a fortnight ago. John Howard’s best ratings were 67 per cent from 10-12 May 1996 (at a rather similar stage of the game to this poll, the election having been on March 2), and 65 per cent recorded in the aftermath of the Bali bombing on 1-3 November 2002. Pollsters other than Newspoll had Bob Hawke over 70 per cent in 1983-84. I have derived two-party figures for Newspoll from 1985 to 1995 using preference distributions from the preceding election, and none comes close to 63-37. The Coalition’s best result was 59.9-40.1 from 20-22 August 1993, immediately following John Dawkins’ horror post-election budget. Labor’s was 58.0-42.0 from 12-14 June 1987, at the onset of the campaign for the July 11 election.”
far out, unbelievable!
Yes, I am gleeful, gloating. Do feel for Fibs TBs, but they let that nasty little suburban solicitor corrupt their party and they let him so they could be in power. So stuff them.
Steve K,
i read a while ago that Tip’s super matures somewhere around the end of March this year
If no one challenges Nelson next week at the first party meeting, then we’ll really see how piss weak they really all are.
When faced with the downward slide, I’ll bet none of them have the guts to put the party ahead of themselves
Morgan and Newspoll telling a consistent story and revealing the true size of the rusted on Liberal vote.
onimod. I’m not sure what your’re trying to suss out here. If it’s the building regs. him self indoors is quite happy to help; if it the Serfchoices legislation in all it’s wonderful manifestations, send me an email via William. I’m not sure I can help with Serfchoices, it’s an absolute dog.
Don’t you love those hyphens next to Howard’s name in the poll? So good to see the back of him and to see his house of cards come tumbling down.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/newspoll-4-mar.jpg
Well, this is a devastating result for the Liberals. I suspect a leadership change will be forthcoming in the near future.
Hey, William,
You mean “last months” 9% don’t you.
Cheers, Scorpio
No 46
He means “last month’s”. I dare say many of you are in desperate need of English lessons.
Bah!
These ephemeral results aren’t as meaningful as you gloaty little lefties like to think.
The gloss will wear off in around 2-5 years. Just wait.
I also reckon voters will tire rather quickly from living in what is essentially a one party also state.
Blair’s New Labour (which won government by far larger margin) enjoyed leads just as massive for far longer. The Conservatives are now in a winning position.
Don’t think Rudd’s meagre win on election day (and honeymoon poll results) is some sign that the entirety of Australia has opted to subsribe to Green-Left weekly.
No Scorpio, the previous Newspoll was Feb 15-17. It was only “monthly” in that it held its first post-election poll on Jan 18-20 and didn’t follow it up until mid-February. I assume they’re back to fortnightly now.
Denise Shaman’s likely spin in tomorrow’s A*se of the Nation:
HEADLINE: Ghost of Howard keeps promise despite Election loss – Approval ratings will always be lower under a Coalition Opposition
So good see the back of Howard.
BS Fairman @643
Whatever you have done for Santa to bring you such a wonderful present, would you please keep doing it.
The LNP will only need an out-house at the back of the Chamber if this was an election result. King Tuckey could sit on the throne with Bishop the royal paper holder and Hockey chief a-wiper. Might not be anyone else left. Are there 150 seats on each side of the chamber?
43 Harry
huh? please explain? (it’s getting late)
GP, a month is not a person and so cannot won anything and so it is ‘last months’ without an apostrophe.
Leadership change, leadership shmange. Get rid of deadwood, get rid of extrmeme righties from the branches, do some root and branch reform. Will still take you years and years to get back to looking like an alternative government, but at least a pathway will be mapped out. And go and change your policies.
Time to send out the Cheka to find this recalcitrant 7%. Who could they be? Why do they persist in flaunting their membership of a what is no more than a statistical glitch? Do they have a fetish for strange haircuts, or is their motivation more sinister?
If the sample size is as previous (for the 9%) then the seven percent has an MoE of 1.48. So he could be Mister 5.5 or Mr 8.5.
More than one in five (almost 22%) who voted for Howard last Nov have switched sides. A pretty amazing statistic!
A sure case of scales falling from eyes to a degree never seen before.
cannot own anything I meant
GP @ 45,
Agree. You can play the “give him time card”, you can say it is unfair because Nelson has not done anything wrong and you can blame Rudd’s honeymoon.
However, these figures show that Nelson is not acceptable as a Leader even to his own side.
I think Turnbull is about to have greatness thrust upon him.
Labor would be quite happy if Turnbull took over now – has them playing their only trump so early in the game. He will be damaged goods long before the election. They need to bide their time. I imagine their plan will be to not get slaughtered at the next election.
50% of the country hated Howard and Howardism
30% disliked or hated Howard and Howardism but couldn’t break their Liberal roots and never will
20% loved Howard and Howardism but are now ambivalent to the rabble left behind.
The Libs are in all sorts of doodoo thanks to Howard and Howardism and what it has done to the Brand. What he did over his last 2 terms guaranteed the little bastard 8 years of power but destroyed his Party….maybe to the point of no return.
“The gloss will wear off in around 2-5 years. Just wait.”
You put the -in there by accident I presume
For those Laborites who laugh at Brendan Nelson, lest you forget that Simon Crean in 2003 had an approval rating of 26% whereas Nelson after electoral defeat of his Party has atm an approval rating of 29%.
Just remember what comes up must come down, Labor can’t stay this high forever, soon they’ll actually have to make tough choices as all Governments must and the shine will rub off, if i were Ruddlover i’d be enjoying it while it lasts because it wont last forever.
There will be no leadership change not for months anyway, why would someone be stupid enough to take over now, i doubt even if Turnbull or Bishop took over we’d be any more popular than we are atm, but thems the breaks.
But from the depths of electoral oblivion in 2003 with Simon Crean just 5 years later they have according to Newspoll 63 2PP…just shows you what can happen in a few years….
48 A-C – Exhibit A – showing how tough the conservative TB’s are really doing it.
64 Glen – Exhibit B – showing how tough the conservative TB’s are really doing.
Gary hubris will only get you so far…
if you really think about just how bad 7% is just think:
would Bronwyn Bishop get any lower?
would Ironbar get any lower?
would Alex Hawke get any lower?
would Warrick Capper get any lower?
Nelson has no more cred or likeability than these guys……it’s scary.
He must go. They must think for 2 weeks and put someone else in and try rebranding again. if it fails again…………….
you can’t accept 7.
67 Glen – not hubris, fact.
With a performance like this Glen, the nightwatchman if he had any principle or regard for the party, would just walk. He has proved he is not a leader, nobody is following. Time to go and let a real leader emerge.
People hardly know Nelson at all even though he was a Minister the media are in love with Rudd and that’s all people get so its only natural more people would want Rudd as PM because all people have known in 11 years is Howard as Liberal leader. Im not surprised Nelson’s PPM rating is so low.
Removing Nelson would just make things worse IMHO.
Problem is that everyone knows Nelson and the more they get to know him the lower the figures go.
Glen,
Big statement. How?
Oh come on, Nelson was AMA president, not unknown!
71 [Removing Nelson would just make things worse IMHO.]
The problem the Liberals have is that keeping Nelson is making things worse. Is 7% better than 9% in your twisted world, Glen?
Nelson was also a minister for years – a poor one – but still in the public gaze. Let’s face it, people don’t like him. I hope he stays on till the next election but I that’s unfortunately not likely.
“Removing Nelson would just make things worse IMHO.”
Ah, Glen, it doesn’t normally get any worse than this. PPM = 7%, 2PP = 63 – 37.
Oh where to find another sacrificial lamb. I guess Tuckey would get the comedy vote.
It was the stolen generation apology that really killed Nelson and the rest of the Coalition by the looks of it. Ironic that Howard kept maintaining over 11 long years that Australians weren’t interested in an apology.
76 [I hope he stays on till the next election but I that’s unfortunately not likely.]
I hope he resigns tomorrow. He’s had his chance, proven he can’t cut the mustard. Next…
While it all makes sense for Nelson to resign or to be pushed out by some other contender, the Liberals are probably tempted to leave him where he is for now. As the months tick by, Nelson will absorb more of the damage from the election loss, and will ultimately be blamed for all the woes of the party, before finally being replaced by a REAL leader who will head a re-created party… or so they might hope.
Here I was was today walking down the street and saw in the newsagent window The Australian Newspaper headline paraphasing
“Libs craw back Rudd’s lead”
Me too Nelson, He want’s to be just like Kevin 07
82 It will already be happening as we type Noocat. Every Newspoll is worse than the preceding one and there is absolutely nothing on the horizon to say that anything will improve for any reason in the near future. The behaviour of the Liberals in Parliament under Nelson has been atrocious especially on the Friday morning of the last sittings and he should go.
Watching tonight’s 4 Corners I have never found John Howard so funny talking about being a wrecker of the Conservative side of Politics.
Tanya, another good performer on Lateline.
They need a time machine to take them back to before, say, 2005, and the rodent’s suicidal WorkChoices mission.
But of course, there’s about as much chance of that as there is of the party looking respectable (and electable) anytime soon in the wake of said CursedChoices disaster.
Painful lessons all round – for Australia, and the Coalition.
Gee, I really respect the way Nick Minchin has consolidated his position within the Party as a back-room Machiavelli with his brilliant stroke of keeping the Bantam of Wentworth on hold because Petit Mal was a tad too progressive. Ah yes, The Nickster, what an operator! The body of H.R. Nicholls lies amoulderin’ in his grave but his soul keeps marching on.
And as Harry S.O. sez, how can the Libs ever thank the former El Rodente enough for the legacy he has left his beloved Party?
Apparently, after eleven and a half selfless years at the top, the minor historical speedbump is currently a big hit on Pymble golf course as well as on the satellite lecture circuit. When he scurries forth The Hermitage, of course.
The Liberals have only themselves to blame. They got dragged in John Howard’s tawdry game, and as predicted his legacy will be the political obliteration of the Liberals. The Liberals were lucky that the ALP only got 52.8% of the popular vote due to incumbency and a lot of postals. One imagines a double dissolution would result in the 100+ seats that was predicted earlier.
Now that Howard is gone, people are realising just how bad he was, and how much better Australia can be. They are also seeing the shitstorm that Howard left the economy in, by his failure to invest in infrastructure and squandering the fruits of a generation.
Good riddance.
As for Brendan Nelson, he is in his honeymoon period. Wait until the ALP dig further into the Superhornets scandal and it will drop further.
The Libs only have one small faint hope, and that is to get rid of the rabid right wingers and reform the party entirely.
The Liberals need to do several things!
1- Stop their silly behaviour in Parlianment
2- sit back and wait for the Budget
3- The respond with a senisible reply from which they can develop a platform to be compettitive
4- Pray that no one has noticed their first 100 days out of Government
5- Keep praying
91 The front page of ‘the Opposition Organ’ has a photo of Brendan Nelson waving us goodbye, what are they trying to tell us?
Glen Says: @ 71,
[ the media are in love with Rudd and that’s all people get }
Glen, the Libs only have themselves to blame for Rudd’s high profile in the media.
If they had quietly sat back and let any honeymoon period just quietly wash through the system instead of going into “attack” mode with the help of their supporters in the media, Rudd’s profile would not have been anywhere near as high for so long.
Every time a poorly thought-out “attack” directed at Rudd’s integrity or character was mounted, his profile was improved.
By their constant focus on Rudd verses Howard, they also improved Rudd’s recognition factor with the electorate. In so doing they focused people’s attention on Rudd and away from Howard and allowed people to make a comparison.
And they liked what they saw. And they like it even more now. Further attempts to bring Rudd back to the fold will continue to have the same effect.
His ratings will continue to climb.
Unless or until they wake up and start to get a favourable focus back on themselves, the Libs are going to continue with their downward spiral. They are doing exactly the same thing that both Coalition Parties did in Queensland and look where that got them.
Unless they look around and take note of what they and State Branches have done to put themselves in this position, then history is going to continue to repeat itself.
Groundhog day after day after day after…….
Scorpio there is no question the Tory side of politics needs to Reform itself. I have always stated my desire for the creation of a new single conservative political party and to copy Labor’s successful centralisation of its party structure.
Most of all we need a fresh bunch of policies considering most of the Howard era policies are being dumped. Unless they offer an alternative nobody will think about turfing Rudd out, this is a big reason as to why we’re doing badly right now. But i hardly think this is Nelson’s fault he’s been leader for a couple of months give the man a break!
92 Scorpio,
I agree, the Liberals should have Rudd on the backfoot over the looming budget and the dark economic clouds yet what have the Liberals done, they have shown no clear direction,. they have flipped and flopped on several policy fronts, and their behaviour in parlianment has been outright silly.
The Liberals are where they are because they stopped Governing now they are out of office and bascially wont return until they get their act together, listening the Liberals blaming the media is as pathetic as listening the ALP supporters crapping on about the media looking after Howard and blaming the voters for not caring.
Yes, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Liberals it is time to go not for growth but growing up.
Sham-I-am turns out to be a supporter of Nelson because nobody else can be found who wants the poison chalice.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/dennisshanahan/index.php/theaustralian/comments/nelsons_hopes_lie_in_icarus_rudd
Noocat Says: @ 79,
There were three issues that did them the most damage Noocat.
1. Nelson’s apology
2. Howard not turning up for the apology with the other ex-PM’s
3. Not totally disowning “Workchoices” right from the start following the election loss
Except for those three main issues, they would probably be holding not much worse than they were by the first poll after the election and would be able to start to rebuild on that.
It’s all academic now, far too late to undo those three things. Some times, opportunity only knocks once. They missed the train and now have to walk.
This is becoming a game of Newspoll limbo – grab your pina coladas, and ask how low can Nelson go!
Is is statistically possible for it to go lower than 7%?
Is there a noise-floor, or a background radiation level kind of thing, which an approval rating cannot fall below?
F’rinstance, in an approval rating of, I dunno, Jack-the-Ripper vs Mother Teresa, will you get 7% going for Jack-the-Ripper?
I’m not convinced that what he said was the problem, but the way the Liberal Party seemed unable to reach a position
I don’t think the voters care that Howard did not show
Workchoices will haunt the Liberals regardless of what they say or do, their behaviour in the senate didn’t help but over all the Liberals are on a hiding to nothing
If they keep Nelson and keep doing what they are doing it might take a big, fat zero to get the message through. Great listeners they are not but sooner or later the Australian public will get the message to sink in.
I hope Shanahan reads Possum’s blog which thoroughly dismantles any paltry shreds of credibility that he may have had previously.
Two things!
The important poll numbers will be in six months time when the budget has been handed down and the full impact of the rate rises impact along with the continuing situation with the US Economy.
Glen #93
The trouble with your “always stated desire …. of a single conservative.. party” is that its a chimaera. My observation is that many of the Nats are much more “socialist”than the ALP, and might even be comfortable in the Greens, if the Greens were smart enough to court them… believe me, no one is more climate conscious than your farmer.
The demise of Kennett in Victoria (and the rise of the “Country boys” Bracks and Brumby) is evidence enough of the distaste Country voters have for the big end of town… Non Victorians can probably make their own examples.
I have attempted, without success, to imagine what a re-elected Howard Government, would have spun the incredible mess in which this country is mired.
Housing. Rentals. Interest Rates. Water. Infrastructure. Sub Prime. Inflation. Skills.
Education. Health. Inspiration.
Would the whole damn thing have been swept under the carpet. Probably.
And Kev has not cleaned it up, in his 100 days.
Gee.
MB Two things that won’t help Nelson for the simple reason that he will not be there to see either event happen.
William, I think it’s important we make the distinction between “approval rating” and the rating for “preferred prime minister”.
At the start of this thread you say that Brendan Nelson’s approval rating has fallen to 7 per cent. But that’s not the case. His approval rating in Newspoll is actually 29 per cent.
The 7 per cent figure is the amount of people who prefer him as prime minister over Kevin Rudd.
Nelson’s polling woes are bad enough without us compounding them by using the wrong terminology.
Glen Says: @ 93,
Glen, I can’t remember making any comment regarding Nelson’s suitability or otherwise for the Liberal leadership.
That to me is a decision that the Liberal Party have made themselves and is not something that I feel qualified to comment on, coming from, as I do, the other side of the political fence.
But I will say this, he was a bad choice for leader coming on the heels of Howard who was clearly determined by the electorate to be untrustworthy and tricky as well as dishonest.
Nelson’s background as an ALP member and the manner in which he tried to explain his road to Damascus conversion to the Liberal Party didn’t wash with the greater Australian electorate.
It also caused him to be viewed with suspicion by Liberal supporters including no doubt some of his parliamentary colleagues. Turnbull also is in the unfortunate position of coming on board the Liberal bus with a Labor background although in Nelson’s case, his honesty has been put under question and people will unfortunately, make comparisons with that of Howard.
They can’t put Howard and what he stood for behind them with a leader who reminds them of that which they desperately need to put behind them. IE, people need to regain trust in the Libs. They currently trust Rudd and Labor. They do not trust the Libs.
Spotlight on Liberal leader, Brendan Nelson. From Lateline upon his election as leader. Featuring commentary by John Hewson. Notice the disparaging remark from Hewson on Turnbull: “he is divisive”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0fhk1jmgUw
Water Matters.
I organised it years ago that I could uncouple the downpipe from the roof so that the water flowed into the ground, when rain happened. One is not supposed to do that. Regulations. And as would be the case, my small back yard was flooded. But the water drained away. As anticipated. My idea was that the water would somehow remain in the ground, to help the trees, the vine, the plants.
It occurs to me that my little contribution has been utilised, by the bore waterer.
I did wonder why the trees on the footpath, died. I now wonder if my backyard tree and vine will make it.
Mexican Beemer Says: @ 99
That was the problem. Nelson was only the messenger and the message was the wrong one at the wrong time. He should have just endorsed Rudd’s.
But now it will haunt them even more because they can now, “never” convince the electorate that at some future date, it will not be resurrected as Liberal policy, especially now that people know that they wanted to go even further with it and didn’t care about the consequent damage that it caused to so many people.
As Mumble points out every government enjoys a jump in the polls after an election and Rudds looks good because he has had high polls for over a year now, though these did not translate into the expected landslide at election time.
Howard enjoyed very high ratings after 96 but he almost lost in 98 with less than 49% of the vote.
Hawke enjoyed very high ratings in 83 but his vote went backwards by about 1.4% despite inheriting a mess of an economy left behind by Howard and Fraser.
Whitlam almost lost in 74 and got slammed in 75 despite having to deal with an obstructive senate and despite the big improvements he made in health, education, urban renewal, transport and other issues such as withdrawing from Vietnam and giving the aboriginals land. The Opec oil shocks that hit all economies world wide did not get him any sympathy.
Rudd will most likely face the polls in three years and he is not gauranteed re-election no matter what the polls of today say. If the problems including housing affordability, health and inflation are not contained the electorate may well give the other mob a go. It won’t take much of a swing,3 years is a long time, Howard is goen and a lot can happen.
While ever there is a Liberal Party there will be a WorkChoices (or differently-named) policy simmering on the backburner: either in the kitchen where it is visible to all in the electorate .. or bubbling away quietly in the murky depths of Liberals’ ideological “heart”.
Most house here don’t have gutters or downpipes which would be hopelessly inadequate during our usual rains. Water is plentiful, so are cane toads now. I have been thinking of replacing the lawns with natural trees and shrubs as a water conservation measure during the ‘dry’ season. ‘They’ say the north will get less and less rain with global warming as the monsoons won’t reach down as far though that I guess will be years down the track.
The Liberals might be in considerable strife with the Australian electorate at present, but something struck me when I read this article in the Oz.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23307667-7583,00.html
With Rudd’s emphasis on “working families” and a good portion of Labor policy focused on economically responsible “social democratic principles”, the rug is being pulled totally from under Family First. They don’t really have any substantive platform left now.
Next election will see the total elimination of FF from the Australian political landscape.
Oh not, the cane toads. How dreadful. That beast is not yet here.
I don’t understand about houses not having gutters or downpipes. How does that work?
I am not doing lawn myself, just a bit of overhead shelter, the lost trees, oxygen and breezes, protection from the blazing sun.
Why would Costello feel any need to display loyalty after the way he was shafted both by Howard and others in the party. I suspect that he will announce his departure at a time of his own choosing, irrespective of any damage it will do to the Libs. As much as I didn’t like some of his policies, I also think he will be a loss to the Parliament. He could be forensic in debate, and was generally a fairly good treasurer. Unfortunately so many areas of policy in the Treasury were dominated by Howard (Mr Bottom of the Harbour, remember), and wasteful and pork-barrelling expenditure resulted.
Had to laugh watching 4 Corners on Joh last night, seeing Howard describing Joh for PM, he could almost have been describing himself, divisive, destructive etc.
Poor Nelson. One expects a bit of a honeymoon with any new Government, but he’ turned into the Incredible Shrinking Man. And his party seems to be shrinking right along with him.
What happens to parties when they do this? Maybe they’re like collapsing stars: If large enough, they explode and then collapse up their own a***holes into black holes; If not, they just waste away and turn into brown drarves, barely visible at a distance.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens to the Libs, but whatever happens, it should make good viewing on the Discovery Channel.
My tip is the black hole scenario. After all, the only thing sustaining them for the last 11 years was Howard’s ego. And that was super massive.
onimod back at 54. I couldn’t figure out what you were wanting to know about, and just had a couple of random stabs at things I might be able to find out for you. Then had to crash, got to work today. If building regs or Serfchoices are not what you were inquiring about, forget it.
The Magnificent Seven of Brendan Nelson:
1. He cannot even do better Mr. MOE.
2. When May budget is handed down, the PPM will be negative, meaning more people preferred Mickey Mouse to be alternate PM than Nelson.
3. He tried to resign but nobody will allow him, as nobody wants a poison chalice.
4. He secretly rejoins the ALP as he got no issues left to oppose. Labor already owns all the major issues.
5. He decided to start a new Beatles covered band called The Beaten with “Nowhere Man” as its signature song.
6. He made a complaint to the “Fair Pay Commission” because he said the Australian people has not been fair to him. As his honeymoon period with the Australian people has been stripped away by Workchoice.
7. He decided to become an TS Eliot expert by reciting and explaining “The Waste Land” to his remaining troopers of Costello, Downer, Vaile, McGauran, Andrews and Ruddock, with JWH on the Sitar providing background music.
Dennis Shanahan…
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23315143-2702,00.html
A straight report of Newspoll – no spin, no bluster, no gibes.
It was, of course, all very bad news for him and after Possum’s demolition job I suspect he just wanted to get it out of the way and forget about polls for a while.
Here is a classic from Nicholson:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/opinion/animations/0,25199,10,00.html
How about “The Golden Girls” Sophie Mirabella and Bronwyn Bishop coming to the leadership rescue.
The Liberal party is still trying to pretend it is one nation, we know what that type of policy position is worth ( about 10%, no seats in the lower house and a couple of senators). They still have the -this mod can be the alternative government- vote, they have some way to go before the find the floor.
When the two party preferred vote is 80%+ to labor the right winger nutters may be dispatched, or perhaps they will get a leader that takes the Menzies solution, nutters dispatched by ditching the party. Who knows.
They will be broke after the next election if the right wing nutters still have control. In my view, as things stand, there is no future for the Liberal party.
A Galaxy poll on Queensland situation in the Curious Snail today.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23314146-3102,00.html
122 [How about “The Golden Girls” Sophie Mirabella and Bronwyn Bishop coming to the leadership rescue.]
They all know,BK, that they could not put a dent in the chosen leader, the Nightwatchman. He is just too strong and popular for them to try and roll at present. Like the gutless performance we saw from Costello against Howard, we will see the Liberals wait until after today, after the next sitting of parliament, after the budget, after the Olympic Games, after Xmas, after the next election…
Well I don’t think Nelson has any chance of catching up in the polls now – “Uncommitted” has a comanding lead over him, 20% to 7%! Of course, even a coaliton of the Uncommitted and Nelson supporters could not catch Rudd
Seriously, as I said on a previous thread, the bad economic news has come too soon for anyone to fall for the line that it is Rudd’s fault. Nor does the “not fixed yet” attack wash, when Labour haven’t even had the chance to bring down their first budget. The coalition is the only place that responsibility for this mess can be placed. and clearly, 93% of voters are placing the blame precisely there. Nelson would be better off admitting that mistakes had been made and that the coalition was committed to forging a new set of policies.
On these numbers, you won’t see a byelection this year. Anyone who goes now coudl find a lot of dirt being dumped on them in a hurry. As Lord D would say, the backroom boys would be “tewwibly, tewwibly cwoss”.
I thought “Brendan 07″ was a pretty snappy moniker.
The historical allusions abound: shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, the “Admiral Doenitz” of the Liberal Party and so on.
Shanahan manages to pull some optimism out of the fire (although I think he’s having a joke, really I do) in his “the bigger they are the harder they fall…” article referring to Rudd’s soaring popularity. Even Dennis says it’s B07’s only hope that Rudd crashes and burns… somehow.
So, I suppose the Libs, led by Joe Hockey, that marvellous parliamentary performer, will be arranging for cardboard cutouts this Friday in Parliament? Perhaps a little bit of defiance of the Speaker might get those numbers back up? Maybe a few dozen disruptive points of order will re-establish their credibility? After all, the Libs “know” about these things, don’t they? Turnbull’s still on about Rudd and Swan “talking up inflation”. That worked, didn’t it? Yessiree. Political geniuses, those Libs.
Tossers.
At last, Dennis Shanahan presents an analysis I can agree with!
How you feeling Glen, eh? eh? Reckon the poll is bullbutter, eh? eh?
Where’s your messiah NOW?
Oh yeah… where’s Tabitha got to these days?
We can dispense with: We’re coming back! We’re coming back!
Because… we’re BACK baby! And loving every second of it.
One thing with the last few polls – I haven’t seen any “by the issues” results. I’d love to see economic management, where the coalition has surely crashed.
Bill – Brendan07 – love it! ROTFL
Seriously though, this presents an opportunity to Labour in another, more constructive way. Rudd shoudl not kid himself that he is getting 73% because peopel think he’s great. People are clearly worried about the economy now. This actually gives Rudd a mandate to act decisively in the budget to fix some of the deeper problems. If he does he may lose 10% of popularity to those who will face bad news. But there is a great opportunity to lock in the support of a substantial proportion of the swinging voters here. If Rudd can seize that, his second term majority will be much bigger than his first.
The only real danger Rudd faces at present is spill-over effcts from the debacle that is NSW State labour. His coming from Qld is probably quite an asset at present.
Socrates #130,
Can’t take the credit for “Brendan 07″ Soc, try Classified at #4.
Meanwhile, Gerard is prattling on about “soft” interviews of “leftist” Academy Award-winning filmmakers on ABC radio.
Jesus H. Christ on a stick!
I am waiting with bated breath for someone to come in here with an envelope tucked under his hairy armpit addressed as follows:
Attention: For your eyes only.
The Chief Troll at Poll Bludger
As he breaks the seal from Liberal Party Headquarters, beads of sweat pour from his forehead as he devourers the latest secret message containing the Leadership solution.
It’s a done deal. Brendon Nelson will hand over the Leadership of the Liberal Party to Malcolm Turnbull on the day that Brendan turns sixty four.
Love
The faceless Men.
118 Harry
NCA – National Capital Authority (i’m sure you knew)
Anyway, for anyone else, the NCA is/used to be a little Liberal Party hotbed, just around the corner from the HQ of the LP, who found half of themselves sacked in the last few weeks thanks to Lindsay Tanner. They’re the remnants of the NCDC – the planning Authority that basically built Canberra as it it. We have two planning authorities in Canberra and the general opinion is that both of them are pretty inept.
The story I’ve been fed is that basically none of them were up to the tasks required to project ‘Nation building’ that they will be required to undertake in the near future. Along with the staff cuts a large chunk of public works has also been shelved, but that’s really chicken and egg type stuff.
From my insiders/outsiders perspective the politics around the NCA had become so thick and stifling of progress that the broom might have been the only answer.
I am interested in the BCA – what’s your connection? Garrett mentioned it the other night. I’d love to see the GBCA written out of the equation through the introduction of an AS, removing the whole marketing crap that goes with being ‘green’.
The underlying problem is that both the community and a large chunk of the industry professionals lag 20 years or more behind Japan or Northern Europe, and yet we seem to want to reinvent the wheel instead of emmulating ones that have already been pretty well refined.
116
Basil, That old proverb;
“Evil does what evil thinks”
sprung to mind when i heard his description of the mongrel Joh.
Arbie Jay is right – these polls, good as they are, do not guarantee Rudd will be re-elected.
What they show is that the voters are happy that they changed government, happy that Labor is implementing what it promised, happy with Rudd’s style, and still generally comfortable with their personal social and economic circumstances.
But they’ll expect Labor to “fix” the problems of rising inflation and interest rates, without anyone losing their jobs or existing home-owners seeing a fall in the value of their homes or rents rising further. One wonders whether any government has the power to fix these problems.
Voters will also start to question the implementation of some of Labor’s policies as time goes on…eg where are the shortened surgery waiting lists? Where is the school computer for my kid? Where are the extra child care places? It happens to every government.
The Opposition is still in the dressing room working out what jersey fits, while Labor has been out on the field for 100 days. This is hardly a surprise. The Opposition will make no impact until the Budget is delivered. Then it will have some specific issues to get stuck into, that weren’t mentioned in Labor’s election
manifesto.
What I’m hearing from people is that they’re impressed that Labor has just gone straight into government knowing what it’s doing, moving straight to implementing its policies quickly, calmly and rationally, with no much bullshit rhetoric. They do not blame Labor for the problems in the economy, but do expect they’ll be resolved.
But I really can’t see how you can bring interest rates and inflation down, when there’s a massive skills shortage, a need to bring in more skilled labour, and thus more upward pressure on house prices and rents. The only quick answer to the skills shortage, without increased immigration, is to reduce dmand for the products produced by those skills. That means recession.
Quick question and probably Politics 101. To all of the people saying that Costello, Downer et al. won’t be *allowed* to retire from Parliament on the current figures – how can anyone actually stop them if they choose to go?
Antonio,
Quite right. Rudd has made an impressive start but if there’s a recession then politics will get much more competitive.
I am more pessimistic about the Australian economic outlook with each passing week, people are just waking up to how ingrained is our addiction to cheap debt and “easy” returns on investment. This company results season has been an eye-opener.
135 Antonio
I generally agree, but it’s discounting the posibility that there are means and measures that haven’t been used before that might deliver results outside the commonly accepted box of solutions. If we look at other countries solutions, Canada, for example, has provincial sales tax – basically a variable GST that deals with a variable speed economy (old east slow vs new west quick in their case). It sounds terribly socialist of me but surely the mining boom has to be spread a little more equitably? The big miners and Banks are so beholden to the stock market bottom lines that I fear the solutions have to be legislative, and therefore politically difficult.
136 [how can anyone actually stop them if they choose to go?]
Tassieannie, handcuffs, shackles, whips,straitjackets, imprisonment, mental health orders, or perhaps some form of blackmail are the only options I can see. Whether any of these actually work is another matter.
onimod,
It’s an interesting idea, and in all sincerity it’s something that could be considered.
Now for the cynical hat: Labor only holds 4 seats in WA and probably won’t need to hold any of them to be in Government after the next election. So it could be done, I guess.
139 Steve – thanks. That’s pretty much what I thought. Why anyone should think that party loyalty would/will play any part is beyond me.
Crikey Whitey @ 115
Monsoon rains make guttering and downpipes pointless, they overflow quite quickly – house blocks are usually shaped to allow run off. AND the Cane toads are disgusting – huge and the smaller buggers can run fast, like chasing a little dog. No not the Liberal party, Cane toads. At least water isn’t an issue here nor air pollution during the wet season.
————-
The present polls are nothing except an embarassment for Nelson and the LNP. All they need to do is put in a respectable interim face, shut and say nothing and the polls will drift back by themselves. The more they say the more they get kicked in the teeth by their history.
I fear that Dr Nelsons plummet to to 7% maybe a Newspoll conspiracy. When or should I say “If” Dr Nelsons popularity poll bounces back to 9-10% it will be trumpeted by the MM as a staggering jump in personal approval ratings.
140 Dyno
I’m no economist either, and I’m not really advocating it. It just astounds me that Australia is heading to a more US style mentality where we consider ourselves so different to the rest of the world that we don’t readily consider or debate solutions that have been tried elsewhere in the world. In terms of standards of living, how can we not consider emmulating northern europe in so many ways? There are differences for sure, but there are more similarities than differences IMO.
A lot of the construction industry is doing it tough in europe right now. Now if we adopted building standards that paralleled theirs (better than ours) imported some of their personel and skills (a lot better than ours) we could make a positive change in so many areas. I honstly don’t know wether it would work – I just hope someone is thinking about it, because it’s pretty evident thinking was frowned upon for the last 12 years.
This post looks suspiciously familiar (it was on Sham’s blog). Has Tabitha changed team (and name to Craig)?
Liberals = Short term fixes + exploitive + exclusive = Dinosaurs
Labor = Long term solutions + sustainable + inclusive = Future
Go Nelson Go! The only way is up
HA!!!
What a joke they are. Always were of course, it’s just that the blind can now see.
My suggestion would be make Sophie M. leader, so when she goes off on maternity leave they can give few others a try on a weekly rotating roster in acting positions. Thatway they’d probably get 2 or 3 shots each and they could be assessed an performance. Glen and GP could have a go to, as new blood might be the only answer. And Tabitha. And my cocker spaniel.
Or else a DD: and wipe out the lot and start again.
Dontcha just love democracy!
146 JOM, sadly there is another Friday sitting coming up soon and with Hockey leading parliamentiary misbehaviour, I fear the only way for the Nelson Leadership is down.
What about an AFL/gen-Y solution – a ‘leadership group’ and a predefined rotating named leader?
Silly me – AFL teams are actually trying to win……..
Steve as long as he absorbs the Rudd honeymoon which coincidently never seems to end and enacts the changes to the party structure that will help the Libs become competative again it’s all good.
Besides, this far away from an election the averge voter doesn’t care or probably know who Breandan Nelson is.
Now the Liberals have two lameduck Leaders, Nelson and the friend of all seniors with a mortgage, Queensland Liberal Leader, McArdle.
Perhaps Federally they could have a fortnightly lucky dip to determine which of the non-lame can lead for that fortnight. Similar to what they have in Queensland Liberal Leadership circles but a bit more structured.
Steve 3 years is a long time. Anything can happen!
Maybe the Governor of NSW will sack the Iemma government… lol
152 JoM, with Nelson a fortnight is a long time and drift of support in each successive Newspoll is happening!
It was also a ‘long time’ from the point that Rudd assumed the ALP leadership, and people assured us Howard would come back. At what point does Aquaman consider a return unfeasable for this term – 1% 2PP per month?
Marius Benson put the ‘buyers pride’ argument to the head of newspoll for the reason for ALP popularity and he pointed out out is could quite easily turned to ‘buyers remorse’. At some point some of those buyers could become brand centric – they did for the last 12 years.
Steve I see your point but at this stage of the election cycle IMHO it doesn’t matter. A few more interest rate rises and problems with health will see the Coalition’s stocks improve. Can this poll really be taken at face value? After last years election I don’t think so.
Steve says “Tassieannie, handcuffs, shackles, whips,straitjackets, imprisonment, mental health orders, or perhaps some form of blackmail are the only options I can see.”
Careful Steve, I reckon some of them would probably enjoy the whip etc.
All polls are important to professional politicians JoM despite the spin about the only poll they believe in is election day. What this and every other poll tells us is that Nelson is gone. He can hang on for an hour, day, month, year, till the next election, for the next decade etc. but in politics nothing changes till someone taps him on the shoulder and tells him the game is up. Costello failed to do it. Howard hung on far past his use-by date.
So far Turnbull has failed to do it and Nelson has hung on past his use-by date. If it takes Turnbull twelve years to learn to tap, that’s ok by me but in no way can it be good for the Liberal Party. A quick change is a good change when things are hopeless and heading away from where you need to be going.
Wins are created over time from heading towards goals not by spearing in the opposite direction. What Nelson is doing is ensuring a big loss. He is not capable of anything else on these figures and wishful thinking is not a substitute for leadership.
The head of newpoll prefaced his comments on the 2pp result with (paraphrasing) “I’m sure we wouldn’t see these figures reproduced if there actuall was an election” – so what the hell are they really polling – gives me the shits every time they say it. Either change you polling method, its name or whatever, but don’t present it as an apple when you know it’s an orange.
Steve all good points but reform of the party first then new leadership.
158 It is just straight political dishonesty, onimond, from a group of people who eat and breathe polls but are incapable of giving an assessment that is plain to everybody in Australia including the people who were polled.
Howard huggers were waiting for the magical budget bounce, the narrowing and all sorts of voodoo based conspiracy theories that was going to defy what the polls were telling them and give us an upset Tory win last year. Nothing has changed, their delusion knows no bounds and all have some timeframe where the magic elixir will be found to cure their ills.
It didn’t happen last year, won’t happen this year. Pure fantasy created to hide an unpalatable truth.
JoM, back to front I’m afraid, it’s the leadership that transforms the party. Without the leadership and someone to drive the change, it will never happen.
Steve, Simon Crean drove through changes and his leadership did not last.
111 Arbie Jay – wishful thinking at its best.
162 All successful pollies drive through change JoM. It’s just that some changes aren’t enough to win elections or win increasing support.
Nelson has driven through change too but the unedifying spectacle of their behaviour in Parliament is the opposite of the images that he needs to get support.
The trick is to do things that people want, need and support not change into something that disgusts or irks them as Howard did with workchoices.
Onimod 140
Regarding importing builders and standards from Europe – absolutely on the standards bit. Australia badly needs uniform building codes, and ones that are toughened up at that, to meet energy and environmental objectives. We tend to build large, low quality houses here. A few years ago I worked with a Danish trained engineer and he pointed out to me how many of the residential apartments being built in Brisbane woudl be illegal in Denmark due to inadequate noise and heat insulation.
Regarding the newspolls and various excuses for the low LNP vote, this is why I would love to see a breakdowm by policy issue. I don’t think this is a honeymoon – it is a reaction by voters with mortgages to what has been happening to interest rates. Most people realise now that this was at least in part due to Howard’s last big spending budget. I remember Possum’s analysis of correlation betwen interest rates and voting before the last election. Since then we have had more interest rate rises adn even more time for the message to sink in. In that context this result is not a surprise (except Brendan07).
As a matter of interest, 159 John, what reforms to the party took place before Howard took over the Libs and won in 1996. I seem to recall chanages of leadership on a regular basis and a waiting around for Labor to become unpopular but I can’t recall the party being reformed before Howard took over.
166 Gary, why would the Liberals even be considering reform of the party when they can all just sit around, waiting for the next interest rate rise, waiting for the next budget, waiting for the next favorable Newspoll, waiting for the next leader to emerge, waiting for the next 100 days of the Nelson Opposition, waiting for the next election, waiting for…
Since the election the Liberals have become a policy vacuum, having tossed out their old ones, and appear to be passionate about only one issue – having to sit in parliament on Fridays. I’m not convinced that this is the right approach to win back public support.
Garry Bruce maybe it just semed that way as Howard was in his assendency.
The media’s political correspondents know absolutely nothing about politics many of them state that Nelson’s approval rating is 7% when it is actually his PPM rating and let us not forget that Nelson’s approval rating at 29% is higher than Simon Crean’s 26% in 2003.
If Nelson does not last this year, i do not believe that Turnbull will want the job and i think it will go to the Deputy Leader, Julie Bishop…because Turnbull doesnt want to be a permanent Opp Leader he wants to be Prime Minister.
Costello will be back in 2012
170 Hope $weets have got a job as junior barrister for him in the meantime. He is showing a distinct lack of interest in the Liberal leadership and the parliament is sending him to sleep lately.
Steve, Costello is recharging his batteries after being Australias’ greatest Treasurer for 11.5yrs
“Besides, this far away from an election the averge voter doesn’t care or probably know who Breandan Nelson is.”
This excuse from Liberal Party supporters has been bandied about a lot lately. Let me just say that it is lame, lame, lame. If Nelson’s poor personal rating was simply owing to people not knowing who he is, then why has it continued to drop?
While not everyone in the country follows politics and not everyone will know who Nelson is, the reality is that a lot would, mainly courtesy of the stolen generation apology and all the massive media coverage of it.
But the difficult truth for some Liberal stalwarts is that Nelson messed up the stolen generation apology. It was an attempt at trying to please both the moderates and the extremists in his party, and in doing so, he relinquished his leadership. Couple this with continued and intentional parliamentary misbehaviour (a truly DUMB strategy), the fevered vascillations over WorkChoices, and attempts at trying to deny that inflation is a problem, and you clearly have a leader who is hopeless, ineffective, weak, and now, impotent.
This is what the public see and it is reflected in the worst polls that the Liberals have ever had.
And on top of all this, the opposition still looks like they are stuck in the past, using the same old tactics, just waiting for either a new opportunity to mount yet another scare campaign or for Labor to slip up. No direction of their own. Nothing positive to offer. No hope. No inspiration. In fact, there’s really not much life in them at all.
I want to see a Liberal Party supporter actually admit that Nelson is not turning out to be a great leader for the party, instead of just making the same old excuses and living in the same old patterns of denial that lost them the election in the first place. If the same thing was happening on the other side of politics, many Labor supporters would be out there arguing a case for change. I guess this is one of the biggest differences between the supporters of the two main parties – the conservative mindset doesn’t tolerate change very well, so they end up resorting to denial and pithy excuses for leaving things the way they are, no matter how bad things get!
169 [i do not believe that Turnbull will want the job]
Glen, good idea let’s put Julie Bishop through the Parliamentary Leadership mincer before Turnbull . Bring it on. I’m in the anyone but Nelson camp myself. He’s not even competitive enough to be any fun. I personally like to see four or five leaders spat out each term the Tories are in Opposition.
JoM
I have a piece of paper in my wallet that says “Courage ~ 1/Self-importance”.
168 John – You’ve just confirmed how important the leadership is to the Liberal Party in particular and why they need to get that right otherwise reform will not take place. Leadership first, then reform.
If Libs keep Nelson as their leader I predict that my local member Kate Ellis will be our PM in 2019 (after Julia of course) and ALP will be in government at least until 2022.
“Nelson’s approval rating at 29% is higher than Simon Crean’s 26% in 2003.” Ah, that makes it all better. No problem then.
174
steve – well lets not forget the ALP had 5 leadership changes in 10.5 years and we’ve had our first to Nelson, 4 to go i suppose.
But i hardly think it is fair to blame Nelson for all our woes, the problems with the Party go further than Nelson right now. I have alot of admiration for the way Nelson has conducted himself during one of the worst times in Tory politics in Australia.
179 I have a lot of admiration for the way the Liberal Party conducts itself on Friday mornings in Parliament during the Nelson reign. Good work! compliments where due, these Newspoll records are hard earned by the whole team and not just Nelson.
Some conservative TB’s here seem to forget why they lost the election and seriously believe that all they have to do is wait a couple of years and they will be back into government again. It wasn’t a mistake by the people. They didn’t like many of the major policies of the Liberal Party, so much so the Libs have dumped them themselves.
3 years is not a long time and memories aren’t that short. Do you really believe that because the Libs have said “oops we got that wrong, sorry” people are going to go “that’s ok we want you back now because after all you’re the natural party of government”?
These poll figures are not as they are because Rudd is Rudd. They are like this because the government is doing what people agreed last election should be done. Consequently this government will be rewarded with trust for some time to come. Certainly longer than just 3 years. It won’t last but that’s not what I am contending here.
So combining the memory of the last few years with what the present government is doing now makes for a massive contrast in style and substance, something the electorate are obviously embracing with glee and something they won’t forget in a hurry.
Glen, Nelson is a nice guy generally, and under different circumstances, he might have been a little more popular, but his leadership abilities are woeful. When you are going through “one of the worst times in Tory politics…”, then you need solid leadership, someone who is able to really clean out and reform the party, make tough decisions, and generally fix all the damage from the Howard years. You don’t do that by encouraging the party to deliberately run amok in parliament or vascillating over something as crucial as WorkChoices, just to name a few.
It is the Liberal Party’s inability to enact much needed change that led to them not replacing Howard. It is this same inability that led to them putting Nelson in change – they thought they could still carry on as normal, knowing that Nelson wouldn’t actually take charge and steer the ship in a direction of real change. Turnbull offered change and he was rejected.
You are quite correct, Hass @ 106. Don’t know what came over me. Now corrected.
Nelson has apologised and scraped workchoices (core policies dumped) so i hardly think the Liberal Party of November 2007 is the same Liberal Party of Feb 2008. Infact by doing these things one could say we’ve started to listen to middle Australia.
Turnbull wouldnt have made things any better, being in opposition means defining yourself different to the Government and Turnbull’s views are mostly a reflection of the Government.
185 Glen – just an aside, were you arguing against Workchoices last year?
185 [i hardly think the Liberal Party of November 2007 is the same Liberal Party of Feb 2008.]
I must agree with you once again Glen, Newspoll is definitely showing them to be a far more unpopular party.
“i hardly think the Liberal Party of November 2007 is the same Liberal Party of Feb 2008.” In fact it could be said to be more like the Labor Party, only nowhere near as popular. People obviously prefer the original and frown on the wannabe.
The only real mystery about the decline of the Liberal Party is why it took until 2007 for people to realise how appalling they were.
The same thing is happeneing in the US where the once revered (God knows why) George W Moron has been seen for what he is and all conservatives -including Hillary Clibnton are wearing the backlash.
Conservatives here have no hope until they are no longer associated with the former discredited regime. I’m not kidding when I say they need to start again. Turnbull is the only sitting member that could move forward, and only because he is a relative newcomer. The rest are toast.
A record current account deficit announed today ($24 Bn for the month, with total foreign debt exceeding $600 Bn for the first time). That makes it London to a brick interest rates will go up again. I still don’t think Australia will go into recession in the short term (the US is a goner) but growth will slow a lot.
Turnbull would have the numbers already. Nelson just pipped him for the leadership,
and I’m sure acouple of backbenchers are already regretting their vote.
But what would be the point of changing Lib leaders now? It would just emphasise that the party wasn’t united. The Opposition needs a long period of talking to the electorate and formulating new policies, before anyone is going to pay it any attention. The coalition could do worse than follow John Brumby’s blueprint for returning to government in Victoria. Even though Brumby himself didn’t survive quite long enough in the leadership, his policies and tactics outsmarted Kennett, and picked up where the disenchatment was in the electorate. Bracks played a major role in formulating the policies, and so was very capable of selling them and implementing them.
I actually agree with Glen (!) that Nelson really hasn’t done much wrong, given his difficult position. I heard Nelson do a half-hour interview on ABCMelbourne radio just after the apology, and he had every difficult issue thrown at him. He kept calm and affable, showed a bit of humour, and tried to give thoughtful answer to questions. While I think Turnbull would be a better leader, there’s no point changing until the party works out what policies its leader will be promoting. Just bagging the government doesn’t work for an Opposition, if the Government itself is popular.
189 Jen, Turnbull is being reserved for when the ship turns around, when people have forgotten what the Liberal Party stand for, when recession bites and angry people are marching in the street demanding change or when hell freezes over, … or he just retires to the backbench like Costello did.
188 “it could be said to be more like the Labor Party”
Gary, you are right, it is pretty easy to be like the Labor Party and the two parties are hardly very different .. its mainly about who gets the spoils.
I think the Libs solution is to actually join the ALP (their natural brother and sisters)….. then we can have a more stable one party state rather than the relative messy (pretend) two party state.
#190
The trade deficit must be partly attributable to the rising dollar, making imports cheaper and exports more expensive. And the slump in the services sector no doubt is at least partly due to a falloff in tourism, for the same reason.
Increasing interest rates as a response to a worsening trade deficit would only push the $A higher, compounding the problem. One of the reasons for China’s export success (apart from low wages and workplace standards) is the level of its currency, which is kept artifically low by the government.
A falling $A would help mining, where demand remains very high but returns are falling because of currency levels. It would also help agriculture, where prices for commodities like wheat are skyrocketing, and there’s great potential for a trade recovery as the drought ends. A falling $A would also help save what little manufacturing we have left, and hopefully stem the flow of some Asian imports.
It seems to me that the Reserve Bank has pushed interest rates a little too high today, and in trying to soften the housing market will really hurt our exports.
Steve, Turnbull will bide his time until that opportunity to rule is upon him.
He is a man of great ambition with a green touch of megalomania….could effect radical change possibly.
182 Steve -
at this point i’m going for when hell feezes over unless something drastic happens – like the second coming.
I think Neslon is probably a nicer guy than some of the hard right wingers, but he is a useless leader.
And if I was Malcolm I wouldn’t touch the leadershiop witha bargepole. In fairness Downer, Abbott, Costello, Ruddock et al should all be held to account for the disgraceful decisions of the past government, so why would a cleanskin take it on when he will have to take the rap as the others scuttle away from the sinking ship?
195 Yes Ogmios but the Liberal Party fed us that line with Costello for decades too. I’ll believe it when I see it. The Liberals are past masters at offering change at some ill defined time in the future but never getting around to actually doing it.
No 191
I agree Antonio.
Steve, you would be correct in Costello’s case, but Turnbull would annoint himself the king of the cleanskins and mould the party to his own ideology….history repeating?
The most likely scenario for Liberal leadership change will go something like this:
1. just let Nelson stay until the 2008 budget.
2. Just let him stay till the end of 2008
3. just let him stay till the 2009 budget
4. He’s done the heavy lifting, just let him stay till the election
5. Nobody can bring down a Government in one term, just let him stay till the next election.
6. We are used to him as permanent Opposition Leader let him have the job for life.
Its plain and simple. Nobody is listening to the Federal Coalition at the minute, in time as the get fed up with Labor they will again begin to liste to the coalition.
201 I’m listening JoM and I love the sound of a rabble especially on Friday mornings.
onimod
The NCA has a lot to answer for. The have made / are making a mess of the Parliamentary Triangle. They’ve screwed up the airport and surrounds (for some reason that’s under their control). And I blame them and carnal Kate for replacing a perfectly good hospital (including basic infrastructure such as nurses quarters) with a monstrosity of a museum which would have been much better off 2 ks down the road at Yarramundi Reach.
I’ve lived in Canberra since 1963. The NCDC made some “interesting” decisions but they weren’t vandals.
I agree. That time will be in 10 – 15 years from now.
185 Glen
Blinkers mate, blinkers!
What would be wrong with supporting the ALP positions when you agree and offering to get stuck in and shoulder some of the work instead of arguing for arguments sake eh?
You the LP and most politicians are stuck in “barrister world” – you’re right I’m wrong or vice versa.
Think of how easy you’d make it for those LP supporters who jumped ship to turn back to you if you actually represented their views?
The long term philisophy of democracy is that eventually the adversarial position must diminish as we chip off the corners and move toward a consensus position of how we, as a population, want our government to act. It should be the case that subtle change SHOULD get you elected. The inability to see the world beyond ideology and extremism is immature at best. Take the ALP kit and improve upon it – it’s what Australia voted for.
Sheesh – it’s not rocket science!!!
ShowsOn you’re probably right but it may come sooner, in the mean time lets get back some states.
No 207
Honestly, if Iemma isn’t voted out of office in NSW, the people of NSW are a bunch of idiots.
GP, one thing you Liberals will have to learn is that you win elections by attracting voters support, not by hurling abuse at them.
ViggoP 203
Thanks
I’m partially raising the issue because I’d like to say that and KNOW I’m right – it’s just a general feeling at the moment, though I’ve come across the opposite view often enough.
Are you in the indiustry, or (just) one of those concerned Canberrans?
The problem is that in a town the size of Canberra, everybody knows someone who knows someone (who holds a grudge…).
I feel a bit guilty for burning Williams bandwidth with off topic discussion, so if there’s a collection of the like-minded elsewhere or you’d like to chat drop me a line via William I guess.
The RBA has announced it’s interest rate decision.
http://www.rba.gov.au/
Steve:
1 – probably
2 – possiblybut doubtful
3-6 Nup
208 steve
spot on
people vote (A) “for” something as a priority, but (B) against something if the aversion is strong enough. Obviously if you’ve got no (A) in the tank you skip straight to (B).
telling people (B) because they’re too stupid to vote correctly on (A) is reasonably ironic.
You’d need (un)common sense to work that out though.
JoM, that’s only true to an extent. The Libs have to give people posiive reasons to vote for them. People need something to listen to, before they’ll tune in. They just can’t do a Micawber, waiting for something to turn up.
They’re in the ungainly position of doing 180 turns on basic policy, without offering alternatives. They’re all plainly licking their wounds, but who in the LP has the capacity to reform, rebuild and offer positve policies? Playing naughty children on Fridays doesn’t cut it. It only irritates the punters, especially compared with serious, hard-working ALP.
207 Generic Person – a true Liberal. If you don’t vote Liberal you’re an idiot. That’s the way to win friends and influence people, well done.
210 steve
The RBA cash rate has now jumped ahead of Brendan Nelson’s PPM rating.
No 214
Mr Bruce, that’s not what I said. Clearly, if you enjoy month to month revelations of scandals, jobs for Labor mates, corruption and developer bribes, Mr Iemma is your man. That, my friend, is idiotic.
215 Triton, if you think that is bad just wait until the next newspoll. With all this focus on inflation being cleaned up and interest rates rising due to Howard’s legacy the Liberals will be in freefall.
Puting aside Liberal leadership, with the interst rates rising again, on top of todays balance of trade figures, I think the case (economically) is overwhelming for Rudd adn Swan to back away from a straight tax cut at the budget. If they don’t they could lose a lot of credibility as economic managers very fast IMO.
As for the political comments, I must agree with the right wing bloggers – NSW Labor deserves to go. Like Howard, the myth of their economci management ability is well and trully exposed.
GP @ 216. We hear similar things in Qld, GP. “You’d have to be an idiot to vote for Beattie (or now Bligh)”. And who knows, maybe that’s true. The trouble is, you’d have to be an even bigger idiot to vote for the alternative.
And there’s the problem. Compared to a highly competent Government, Labor was sadlywanting. But compared to the Coalition, well…there was no comparison.
Ironic that the Reserve Bank has chosen to put Howard’s legacy up in Black and blue no wonder the Liberals are feeling a bit bruised today.
William,
Sorry if I seem like a pain in the butt, but I cannot remember seeing a 9% PPM rating for Brendan Nelson “last year”.
I can though remember a 9% poll figure for “last month”.
????
onimod
I was a minor public servant (computers) and have been living in the outskirts of West Belconnen for 37 years, now happily retired. I like my bush capital the way it is / was. If the Molonglo development affects my lifestyle I’ll have to consider my options.
218 Socrates – the problem is that with interest rate rises causing severe pain out there in the mortgage belt, there’s lots of people hanging out for a tax cut to ease the pressure. You can argue all you like that, in fact, this will only add to pressure for even more rate rises, but if Rudd doesn’t deliver on this promise it will damage his “all our promises are core” credibility. There will be a backlash and it will be severe.
FG
Then they have to do something else clever or tough in the budget, or risk going to the next election with the country in recession. That won’t be good for re-election prospects either.
I’ve corrected that too, Scorpio. Think that’s everything …
I heard on the radio news this morning that Nationals leader Warren Truss said Nelson had the support of the full coalition party room.
Think I know where the pollsters found that 7 % then! ;-D
224. Yep Socrates. Rudd is between a rock and a hard place on this one – which is just where JWH wanted him.
Yes FG, quite brilliant of Howard to booby-trap the economy before leaving office. He really was a great economic manager. He should be proud of his achievements on foreign debt and wage inflation too.
216 – GP ['Mr Bruce, that’s not what I said. Clearly, if you enjoy month to month revelations of scandals, jobs for Labor mates, corruption and developer bribes, Mr Iemma is your man. That, my friend, is idiotic.']
I love the hypocrisy of a statement like this from GP.
Whereas if we replaced it as follows:
Clearly, if you enjoy month to month revelations of scandals, jobs for Liberal mates, corruption and AWB bribes, Mr Howard is your man. That, my friend, is idiotic.
Yet, I heard nothing but crickets chirping.
As a follow up to 229.
I don’t live in NSW, yet a corrupt government be it Liberal or Labor should be kicked out.
GP – just to add to 229 asanque’s comments – would you be advocating the same if a Liberal state government was in the same position?
Asnaque I agree with you! No matter the party corruption should never be tolerated as it undermines confidence and undermines the state.
Thus then you also believe the WA ALP Govt should be kicked out too Asanque?
If any Government is corrupt then they ought to be gone. Though i dont see why you think the Howard Government was corrupt, where is the evidence??
JoM
Quite right. Lets see them all go. And the guilty stand trial, whether former Federal Ministers guilty of contempt of court over immigration cases, or State ministers taking kickbacks.
What’s wrong with just removing the bad eggs? Not all in these governments are bad.
Socrates, here, here!
Gary it undermines confidence. Wipe the deck clean and start again, I say.
234 Socrates – I’m sure Glen will agree with that.
Speaking of Glen, glad to see you’re back on line. I’ll aske you the same question I asked earlier – 185 Glen, just an aside, were you arguing against Workchoices last year?
Well at least Iemma and Carpenter were/are prepared to chop the infected portions out of their governments unlike a previous federal government I know of.
GB I always believed that we ought to have removed unfair dismissal but leave the pre-2005 no disadvantage test for AWAs…had we just done that we’d have been able to argue a good case for the policy but since this did not occur it left us open to attack big time.
I think it is a disgrace that we’re going to destroy AWAs who have been in the system since 1996 just because of one policy we made, individual agreements are necessary and i think its a disgrace that the Liberals gave up on them so easily.
No 231
Yes I would.
Glen, fair enough.
240 Glen
I’ve always been puzzled by people’s willingness (including the former government’s) to use the term ‘unfair dismissal’ this way. It implies that you think it’s okay for people to be specifically _unfairly_ dismissed.
“Though i dont see why you think the Howard Government was corrupt, where is the evidence??”
Agreed: Neither Howard, Downer nor Vaile knew anything about AWB’s ‘creative competitiveness’. The Cole inquiry’s terms of reference allowed these honourable individuals to be completely exonerated.
233 – Glen
Yes I would, if they were corrupt.
I love it when you give me a chance to rehash the endemic corruption in the Federal Liberals under John Howard.
Here are a just a few examples:
1. Regional Road Rorts
http://www.alp.org.au/media/0405/msrdr120.php
2. Failure to conduct a proper inquiry into the AWB scandal
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/this-inquiry-is-only-half-the-job/2006/04/13/1144521461752.html
3. Children Overboard – lying to the Australian public
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_overboard#Senate_inquiry
No Trinton i believe it is about making it easier for people to get a job and for small business to not have to worry about letting poor performers go.
IW where does it say that they knew and where is the evidence of any bribes being payed to any of them…if you dont have the evidence you are bordering on slander.
240 – Glen
You do realise its possible to have an individual agreement (called a common law contract) without an AWA.
Asanque
Lets not forget numerous instances of possibly misleading senate committees – a potentially jailable offence. I think if we are honests the real standards of accountability of State and Federal ministers have fallen over the last decade. Its one thing to lose your job, but if you knowingly break the law you should be held accountable. eg former Qld Labor minister Meri Rose standing trial for blackmail. I don’t see why potential guilty partys in the outgoing Federal govt should just sail into the sunset with their super any more than NSW Labor miisters should.
I just realised my first link at 245 was old. Showing that the Federal Liberals under Howard have long been corrupt.
The last such occurence happened in 2005 after the 2004 election which they pork barrelled to victory on.
Given they felt the Australian public just didn’t care about corruption, they were at it again even more strongly before the 2007 election.
http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/e741a3eefa539841ca256c8c0016eaac/04fec85d065e38b5ca2572e40000545b!OpenDocument
Lets not forget the corruption of Freedom of Information as well.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/freedom-of-information-should-be-beyond-price/2007/11/19/1195321692307.html
What are the chance of the Liberal Party being able to reform itself? And what does it need to do to reform itself. After all no matter how important it was to remove Howard it is still important to have a relevant and competitive opposition and from what I can see that is a long time off.
237, JoM
Just do away with state governments altogether….surely in the twenty first century the nation could be governed by a central entity.
The performance of state politicians is sub standard on both sides and duplication is hindering progress.
Glen, can you please remind me who you predicted would win the last election?
Given you were wrong about that, how do we know you’re right about anything else?
I’d also be keen to know were you in favour of Workchoices prior to the last election? If you were in favour of it then, but against it now, why? Were you and the Liberals wrong before? Or have you changed your mind for political expediency? In which case, what are the Liberals core beliefs?
ViggoP
The man (said to be) largely responsible for the airport debacle is a retired west Belconnen resident too – ironic.
I find it truly laughable that both Melbourne and Canberra made the same mistake with retail near their airport. Melbourne’s attempt at an infrastructure fix is mildly more passable.
Some people still want to argue that this government will be blamed for the inflation and interest rates some time this term. Yet last year those same people were arguing that firstly the government couldn’t be blamed for the rise in interest rates because the RBA was independent of government and secondly that the government had minimal control over inflation. So if the last government was not to blame why would they blame this government?
Ogmios #251. No I do not believe we should get rid of State Governments.
I believe what we need to do is clearly outline Federal and State Government responsibilities and funding arrangements so that there are no duplications.
Onimod 253
You will be pleased (in a bad way) to know that the airport retai disease is wiedspread. Brisbane airport Corporation flogged off a block for a large retial warehouse next to their main entrance off the Airport Motorway/Gateway Motorway interchange a few years ago. Presty, an already congested intersection has been banked up for 20 to 40 minutes in peak hour ever since. Not to be outdone Sydney has planned a huge retail development on their site.
Under Federal law airports were exempted from having to pay contributions for access infrastructure, and had total planning control over their sites. So it was predictable that as soon as they were privatised the new owners would seek to exploit the loophole by putting the highest rental land use they could on their site – and thats retail. as usual, its an economically peverse outcome resulting from bad legislation. They make perhaps $100 millioin out of the retail site but impose community costs in congestion and roadworks that are much higher. More Howard economic genius.
Gary Bruce, the one line people will remember is that interest rates will always be higher under Labor.
257 John, and the one thing they will also remember is that this would have happened if the Libs had won the last election because it was happening under them. That line you quote has lost its potency long ago. Also, Howard used it ad nuseaum last election campaign and I think he lost that election didn’t he?
Gary you are right when you say, ‘Howard used it ad nuseaum.” I think he did it so that people would remember the rates would always be higher under Labor.
JOM
Lets not discuss interest rates when Howard was treasurer, or the underlying inflation rate he has left behind this time. The only reason that line has ever been true is because Liberal PMs have been thrown out before the ship they ran into the iceberg sank.
Since our interest rates were sixth highest in the OECD before the recent rise, does anyone know where are we now?
Still JOM, at least we can agree on what should happen to NSW Labor and certain retired Federal ministers. They both give their respective parties a bad name.
John of Melbourne
Actually, that is yet another example of blatant lying from John Howard.
He first claimed that the promise was ‘always higher under Labor’ rather then ‘interest rates would remain at historic low levels’
When they discovered a Liberal advertisement claiming ‘interest rates would remain at historic low levels’, the Howard line became ‘I never personally said interest rates would remain at historic lows”
Then they found a radio transcript where Howard said “interest rates would remain at record lows”.
Howard’s legacy will be as a deceptive destructive politician that caused the political annihilation of the Liberals.
So which is it John of Melbourne was the last government responsible for the rise in interest rates and inflation and thus this government should eventually be blamed for these sometime this term or should the previous government not be held responsible and so this government not be held responsible over its term?
Links are quite easy to find:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Look-to-future-on-interest-rates-PM/2007/10/26/1192941289671.html
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2084067.htm
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22664437-5013650,00.html
Never forgive, never forget.
Not once they start falling early next year….
That’s the perverse thing…. A mild recession could be the perfect opportunity for Rudd….
Inflation falls, Interst rates fall….. A wonderful economic manager.
Just have to make sure unemployment doesn’t rise too much.
260 Socrates – the other fact people, like John, forget is that when Howard was treasurer interest rates were capped at something like 13%. They couldn’t go higher.
But John (259) Howard LOST the election saying that. IT DIDN’T WORK.
JOH, do you seriously think Labor is going to sit back and just let the Libs repeat that without counteracting it as they did very effectively last election. As 263 asanque has shown the material to be used against this is plentiful.
Question – do the Liberals have ANY core policies?
Governments should be held responisble. Run a larger surplus put tax cuts into super etc.
I think its a hard picture to paint that the last government didn’t do enough in regards to interest rates.
Howard got unstuck promising to keep interest rates at record lows. Had he left in 2006 he would have been true to his word.
Labor painted a picture that managing the economy was easy as a result of the mining boom now that phrase has gone?
Is the Reserve Bank set to lift Nelson’s preferred PM rating to 7.25% ??
Glen, your ability to maintain complete denial, rationalise and change the topic in the face of record poll bad numbers is almost admirable. you really are the biggest tool in the toolbox. Are you sure youre not Dennis Shanahan???
“Howard got unstuck promising to keep interest rates at record lows. Had he left in 2006 he would have been true to his word.” Hence the reason why the one line people won’t be influenced by is that interest rates will always be higher under Labor. The potency has gone for that very reason John.
269 – JoM
Are you contending that the Howard government did anything at all to the economy to rein in interest rates?
It sure wasn’t by investing in infrastructure or skills that has caused the bottleneck in our economy.
And those inflationary tax breaks especially for super didn’t help.
Asanque, Howard & Costello made super even more super.
Don’t the states also have a say in infrastructure spending?
“And those inflationary tax breaks..” you mean the ones that Rudd will be delivering in the Budget. I’m sure JWH said hook, line and sinker.
JOM 269 and 274
I have a middle view of Howard. In his first two terms he did OK economically with the Asian money crisis and was correct to bring in the GST to broaden the tax base and making it less reliant on PAYE income tax. But his last two terms were not so good. He got very lucky (booming revenues) and just spend the lot on pork. It might have been different if he had fixed infrastructure and skills training/education but he didn’t for ideological reasons. This is not a Liberal/Labor thing. Even the Business Council of Australia warned him on infrastructure constraints in the run up to the 2004 election but he didn’t listen. The thing that got him relected in 2004 wasn’t economic skill, but Mark Latham.
I don’t see how you can call him successful on interest rates in recent years. Interest rates depend on global forces, and so it is fairest to compare ours with global peers, not past history. Stripped away from political rhetoric and spin, Howard’s policies in the past five years moved our interest rates from middle to lower half amoung OECD nations to now in teh top quarter (we are sixth).
Finally, to illustrate the lack of spending restraint by Howard, government as a percentage of GDP was BIGGEr under Howard than under Keating!
So JOH, sorry but I agree Howard was a skillful politician, but he was no economic genius. He failed high school maths, and it showed.
274 – JoM
The amendments to the Superannuation scheme weren’t reforms, they were the biggest bribes of the entire 11 year history of the Howard government.
Of course, but what exactly did the Ex-Federal Government do by way of infrastructure investment?
Yup, the tax cuts will be very inflationary, but nowhere near as bad as if Howard got in. Especially as Rudd underpromised the Howard government and still got in.
To be honest though, I’m in favour of the tax cuts, on a purely selfish basis.
Asanque
I’m NOT in favour of the tax cuts, from a purely selfish point of view. We will all pay for them later if there are no corresponding cuts.
BK @268:
I am certain WorkChoices remains a core Liberal policy, though one they are keen to keep clouded over for the time being, for obvious reasons.
The Liberal Party, it must be remembered, is beholden to the business union movement. Heck, Brendan07 has hired into his office at least one ex-business union official (Peter Hendy).
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22954553-5003501,00.html
That on its own should be a hint as to what they are up to.
They will keep draconian IR “reform” smouldering away quietly in the back room, then wheel it out again, under another name, when they feel we are over the last lot and “ripe” to be done over again with workplace “reform”.
“And those inflationary tax breaks..” you mean the ones that Rudd will be delivering in the Budget. I’m sure JWH said hook, line and sinker. So what you are saying John is that if Howard had won he would have reneged on the tax cuts?
“Don’t the states also have a say in infrastructure spending?” They certainly do John, so what were the states accused of by Costello and Howard when they had to borrow to fund such spending? Go on have a guess John. You probably accused them of this as well.
Can anyone tell me how the Federal Opposition would fight inflation and thus stop the rises in interest rates? Turnbull is great at the one liners but short on solutions.
From an article presenting the views of students and staff of Cantebury Boys High following JWH’s attack on public education in early 2004:
The teenager destined to become a federal treasurer and prime minister notched a respectable score for the Leaving Certificate at Canterbury Boys: “A” passes in English and modern history, “Bs” in economics, chemistry and Latin.
But his failure to master Leaving Certificate general mathematics meant the standard Commonwealth Scholarship was beyond his grasp.
I don’t judge the man for failing maths. I do judge the man for failing to understand the quantitative significance of ‘record lows’.
269 [I think its a hard picture to paint that the last government didn’t do enough in regards to interest rates.]
We are not talking dodginess to win an election here JOM, what is needed now are some solutions to the liberal’s driving up of inflation and interest rates. It is not a hard picture to paint at all because Howard and Costello painted it.
Some of the comments saying the NSW government should be sacked etc shows how low the Libs have slithered. Are they admitting they are so incompetent and unable to win government anywhere in OZ that they want the GGs to do the job for them.
It’s just another fantasy of the Liberals Vera, The NSW election is years away and the Federal Opposition is so awful that they slip into a dreamworld and type anything. The only place they can win is Brisbane city Council so hopeless have they become.
Oh, and even then it is only the Lord Mayor’s job and in the wards Labor has a huge majority.
Last year the government (and its supporters, very noticeably on the blogs) trotted out the line, “Look how bad the Labor state governments are. Why would you endorse a federal Labor government?”
Of course, that overlooked the fact that, no matter how bad the Labor state governments were (are), they are still – all of them – more electable than the conservative alternatives. The fact is borne out in the results of more than 20 consecutive election victories to Labor at the state and territory level.
NewsFlash: The Nightwatchmans 07% is erroneus.
i got an wrongly addressed email last night (seems my email addy is similar to Martin O’Shannessy’s) saying:
Hello lovey,
how about we do something cute together
what do you think about making up a 7% PPM figure for Brendan in tomorrows poll
it would make a great front page story..hehe
and after all , we both know Malcolm would make a better leader
anyways, think it over lovey
yours truly
C.Overington…wink wink
Caroline is such a kidder
263 asanque, I hope you put those links away somewhere safe, I feel we are going to need them when the Libs try to re-write history (as is their wont) in a couple of years. The simple reality is that successive Howard budgets have seen fit to pump the economy with wasteful spending rather than needed nation building, so as to appeal to the greedy bloody aspirationals. Now they are going to be caught with their snouts in the debt trough, couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch I say.
No 278
Rx, WorkChoices is dead in its current guise.
The Liberal Party believes in the rights of individuals and deregulated labour markets. Hence, real reform would envisage something quite different to Workchoices, which really imposed additional regulatory burdens on business rather than reduce them.
What is it with Family First supporters?
They disapprove of Rudd as PM but put him miles ahead of Nelson as preferred PM but, none disapprove of Nelson as Opposition leader .. zero, nil, zilch% – but 69% Cant say. Turnbull doesn’t rate any better than Nelson as better PM.
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4273/
I note that 30 odd percent of the remaining LNP supporters don’t put Turnbull or Costello above Rudd.
290 [WorkChoices is dead in its current guise.]
How come the Queensland Liberal Senator Sue Boyce was still all gung ho about keeping the cause alive a couple of weeks ago. Certainly got the guise bit right GP.
People seem to dis-remember Possum’s postulation – the leader of the opposition (no matter whom) needs to ingest the faeces focaccia – thus the nightwatchman will need to bat on to protect the valued replacement, (who, apart from his unsuccessful tilt at a republic and making a sh*t-load outta banking) has done not a lot imo
But Otiose, the valued replacement is so terribly clever, you see. I recall a report on the occasion of the valued replacement’s first introduction to the parliament and the not to be missed occasion of his maiden speech. A large number of the valued replacement’s friends, family and connections, don’t you know, were flown into this, like totally alien place, Canberra, where one wouldn’t ordinarily go if one could help it. God, the standard of accommodation. The place is full of politicians, and, and Librarians! Anyway, they had to be transported to parliament house for the valued replacement’s maiden speech, so buses were hired for the purpose. It was a jolly jape. Reported by the staff on the buses was the oft repeated excitement, novelty and utter strangeness of being on a bus – drum roll – for the first time in their life! Us Labor low lifes will never appreciate the sacrifice those people made that day.
This comment on Tim Dunlop’s blog is one of the reasons why these poll figures are so good for Rudd & Labor.
i’m with Socrates. I don’t want the tax cuts. This is the year for Rudd to show himself as truly fiscally conservative. People do realise that they are going to have to tighten the belt (and it has been pretty good for a long time) and I think most would prefer some short term pain for long term gain.
In an election cycle, I imagine this would be the least vulnerable year to inflict the pain. I know Rudd wants to keep his promises but the economic situation is fluid.
And Rates Analyst pointed out that a well managed slight recession could completely be to Rudds advantage. I hope he is right. I would willingly place my tax cut on it!
Hello bastiches.
I return after enjoying bags of goo infused into my white blood. I will spare you the joys of Del 11q and unmutated IGVH genes.
Anyhoo I have always thought that the accidental leader of the opposition is in deep brown stuff but I reckon he is there for at least another year.
Will the Wentworth Kid lead the Libs – not a snowballs chance in hell. He will try and will continue to wreak havoc. Will Costello, Downer, Vaille etc leave when it suits their party Ha Ha no chance.
My educated guess is Prissy Pyne. Mark my words.
HSO – i remember the day – i was severely delayed by road closures – had to circumnavigate the the parliamentary triangle ENTIRELY – Commonwealth Avenue was anything BUT avenurial.
I did refer to his virgin speech -
“This came back to me vividly when the election campaign was in full swing and the Labor Party was declaring that so-called elite schools deserved little or no government funding. I knew exactly which parents that policy would hurt the most: the battlers, the renters, the Bruce Turnbulls of today, who choose to sacrifice personal comforts so they can give their children the education they have chosen for them.”
HSO – sorry but very few battlers argue over elite schools
So why are the Greens polling so well in the last three federal Newspolls?
12% in January, 10% in Feb and again today 10%.
Last year Newspoll had the Greens polling around 4% and 5%. Could it be that Newspoll has finally included the Greens as one of the answer options presented to those surveyed?
Last year the options presented in the survey question were Labor, Liberal, National, Independent or “some other party”.
They are allocating preferences by the same way as they went at the election. Thus the Green votes are flowing at 78% to the ALP.
Does anyone else suspect that a few journalists are getting there best lines from this site? Just noticed the interest rates being higher than Nelson’s approval ratings line on the SBS news.
So I reckon if you are a Journalist and are reading the Poll Bludger, say g’day as we are mostly a friendly bunch here (with some exceptions).
“There is tentative evidence that some moderation in household demand is beginning to occur, with business and consumer sentiment softer recently, and household credit demand slowing somewhat. The extent of that moderation is uncertain, however. As the Board noted last month, a significant slowing in demand from its pace of last year is likely to be necessary to reduce inflation over time.”
This was the encouraging news from the Governor of the Reserve Bank today. At last the demand for household credit is beginning to slow but the Bank doesn’t seem to know by how much.
Hopefully, it will slow further with today’s interest rate rise and the whole increasing interest rate cycle can be abandoned soon. Certainly if the focus of the Federal Budget is all about cutting inflation then the RBA should be less likely to jack up interest rates as regularly as they have in the past.
If Rudd and Swan can get the economy to the stage where the RBA can actually begin to cut interest rates without fear of inflation taking off then they will have done well by any standards. That is the ideal that I want to see from the Government.
http://www.rba.gov.au/MediaReleases/2008/mr_08_03.html
What is the Labor Party going to do about Negative Gearing?
They are using interest rates to slow the economy and then heat it up with tax cuts. What kind of economy are they running?
Sorry both parties have no idea. Working people and the poor are being duded.
What i would like to know is how many of our politicians have investment properties and using the tax system to claim a lovely rebate.
No 302
If you watched the 7.30 report tonight, it was argued that the RBA is not sufficiently considering the time lags involved in tightening monetary policy. There is some merit in that line of reasoning given that it can take months to evaluate the effect of one rate rise, let alone consecutive ones.
No 303
Here is an interesting blog item on negative gearing:
http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/000344.html
good luck with that ruawake
263
asanque
Thanks for those reminder links. It’s import that we never forget what a sneaky shit house rat Howard really was. If Rudd were to play with words like that and then ask people to forget what he actually said I’d know it was time for a change of leadership if not a change of government.
Steve, such juvenile labelling of honourable former PMs is inappopriate.
*spelling* – I meant inappropriate.
308 Generic – Steve may have been a little heavy handed with the description of Howard but you know you had to listen to every word Howard said, very carefully, because he gave himself an out most times. He was bloody cunning. What a manipulator and he didn’t mind who or what he used to do it. Best gone.
Otiose at 298, that was hardly the point of me leetle bit of snark. Let me spell it out, Turnbull and his associates, sometimes touted on this and other threads as the anointed for the leadership of the LNP, after the ignominious demise of he who can’t make up his mind about who to vote for, is just as narcissistic, if not more so, than Howard. He’s got zero comprehension of economics. See his stupid comments recently about inflation. He’s just a barrister with megalomanic tendencies. If you want the formal diagnosis, with all criteria explained, I can oblige.
308
Generic Person
With respect GP – just because some is a former PM doesn’t mean their sh1t doesn’t stink. Howard was a man with a massive ego who put himself ahead of his team mates, his party, his fellow Australians and his country. He was a blight on our history and in the good ol’ days would have had his head removed and stuck on a stick. He got off very lightly IMO.
No 312
Howard – a man with a massive ego? Oh please.
Your friend, Mr Keating more aptly reflects your statement.
What’s Turnbull’s answer to inflation and high interest rates again? Can anyone supply the detail?
Yes Keating also had a massive ego. Your point?
I would have thought most poeple would think someone who was told by the majority of people they worked with they should quit, and didn’t, had a slight ego problem. But maybe I’m delusional.
Turnbull thinks that saying we have a problem with inflation is talking it up. And that it’s not really all that important, in the general scheme of things, like how important he is. Frankly, if the Libs. keep on with this nonsense, they can warm the Oppositition benches for a good long while.
No 317
Mr Organs, Mr Turnbull has not said that inflation is unimportant. He is simply stating that the current Treasurer is misrepresenting the economic record of Mr Howard and is overstating the inflation issue.
Read the lengthy argument here:
http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=97485
Of course, Turnbull takes an idealised perspective of the Howard era as we would all expect, but notwithstanding, it mounts a credible counterargument to the hysterical claims coming from Mr Swan.
GP,
is that the sound of Yadda Yadda I hear?
Please be serious.
311
Harry ‘Snapper’ Organs – i do not disagree – after a tumultuous yrs 8/9 at “churchie” in brisbane in 1959/60 (that clown Ken Crooke from last nights 4 corners was my best/only mate) – i ust thought that income is NO precursor to intelligence?
318 Generic – and this is Turnbull’s answer to lower inflation and lower interest rates?
Mr. Generic Person, I’ve just read all of it, and frankly, even given your disclaimer about the idealised perspective and so on, I rest my case.
Gotta say, I laugh when you call me Mr. Organs. We’ve been on this blog so long and exchanged so many insults, you can call me Harry.
Gary, Swan’s plan is to increase unemployment what a fantastic idea from Labor!
No 322
Rest your case? You’ve yet to make it.
322 Harry – bloody hell Haryy you read all of that? Geez he’s long winded. I tried but I couldn’t make head nor tail of it. Maybe Generic can direct me to the places that show me how Turnbull would lower inflation and interest rates.
Make that Harry
Ah Glen, you explain Turnbull’s answer to the problem for me.
323 Glen – according to your party and who believes them now?
37% of the country if you take the last poll.
Unless the Libs come up with an alternative answer to this problem, a problem they created, then they have no right to criticise. They’re all smart alec phrases and no solutions.
329 Glen – not much is it. Now if you can just supply me with turnbull’s solution to our problem.
Oh no the sky is going to fall in again…and again…and again
GP/Glen – give it a rest and get your head out of Howards arse – it’s left the building – or hadn’t you noticed?
At what point are you going to anticipate where the LP might go instead of handing out last month/year/decades news?
Surely your use of the word ‘juvenile’ at 308 is the ultimate in irony?
No – I don’t want a reply please, unless it comes with a free dose of reason or evidence.
No Turnbull solution yet? Generic, Glen!!!!
Marky GP
We need negative gearing for housing, it gives investors the incentive to stimulate the hosuing market and build houses and units, Keating realised this when he abolished negative gearing the dollar sank to 49c, he promptly reinstated it and it climbed back to 53c.
However Howard took it a step to far when he introduced depreciation allowances for tax purposes. Housing promptly skyrocketed and Howard boasted of how he had increased the value of houses, so proud and full of himself until a grandmother pointed out to him that he had put housing out of reach for her and others grandchilden.
Kroger followed up on Howards boast on increasing house prices by saying people could borrow against the increased equity to pay school fees and other bills.
This is not wealth generation, it is a dutch tulip economy, artifically inflate house values, encourage people to borrow against those values, it is an economy generated by borrowings.
The trouble is when you reach a limit in values and borrowings and those values decline. And if you make housing more affordable, will this not bring down the value of existing house values, leading to negatative equity.
This is the monster of an economy that Howard and Costello left.
Otiose, I hope it was at least character building. Crap environments for young people in my view. You’ve found some one or a number of people to help? Let me know if you need something. William, I’m not trying to turn this into the online social worker, but sometimes people come up with things here, that just freak me out. If I could get my act together to have a website where people could be referred to, would that help?
onimod and Gary Bruce you ask us for the views of Liberal Shadows when Parliament has sat just once since the start of the year, give us some time after all we’re in Opposition your lot are in Government and they’ve done nothing to alleviate the inflation ‘problem’ infact they are making it worse by trying to cool down the economy regardless of how many jobs are slashed while at the same time offering uber tax cuts thus overheating the economy. One could of put that 30b into endowment funds for education/higher education and health or communications if they were smart but alas they aren’t.
I also find it hilarious that on the day Interest Rates have been raised a second time since Labor took office that they release a policy on rental properties so much help to working families with their home loans…just as they (Swan and Rudd) lied to Joanna Harris that she’d be 150 dollars better off when it is for 50,000 now 100,000 houses that have not even been built yet and wont help current renters this policy is just a fizzer!
The following is taken from the Libs 2004 policy document.
It explains why they failed to connect with the Australian electorate leading up to last years election.
They basically spent 3 years either implementing policy that the electorate didn’t need or want and a quick read shows that the sector of the electorate that was looked after was the Business sector at the expense of working families and the battlers.
PART 1 COALITION’S COMMITMENT TO REFORM …… 4
(i) A More Harmonised Workplace Relations System 4
(ii) Encouraging Agreement Making…………………… 4
(iii) Assisting Small Business to Enter into AWAs…. 5
(iv) Mediation Services for Small Business………….. 6
(v) Supporting Small Businesses ………………………. 7
(vi) Strengthening Secondary Boycott Laws ………… 7
(vii) Providing OHS Advisers to Assist Small Business 8
(viii) Clarifying Right of Entry ………………………………. 8
(ix) Occupational Health and Safety Reform………… 9
(x) Reform to the Construction Industry ……………… 9
(xi) Protecting Independent Contractors ……………… 9
336 Glen – that has to be one of the weakest excuses I’ve heard. Laughable.
Not only do you make an excuse for Turnbull NOT having an alternate solution, one you would have thought they’d have had worked out while in government (the problem was looming then) but you criticise the present government for trying to do something and in doing so just trot out Liberal propaganda as though it were gospel. Give us a break.
How can a person / shadow minister say the government is wrong to do such and such when they don’t have an alternate solution? That is just weak oppostion.
I oppose, therefore I am
or should that be
I am, therefore I oppose?
Because the Rudd Government is doing nothing….
Glen/GP I don’t give a flying F that your party hasn’t thought up a policy of it’s own – what the hell do YOU think.
Most of us aren’t here to have a he said she said discussion – we’d like to engage in an intellectually rich debate.
That means thinking, listening, reasoning and responding to the points made.
Trotting out the lowest common denominator party ideology is a waste of time here, and is basically the reason the quality of the debate plummets when you get involved. I agree with Williams view that a one sided blog serves no purpose, but apparently there’s a dearth of conservatives who can think, as opposed to read and regurgitate.
Lift the game mate!
Just because your parliamentary party is performing poorly doesn’t mean you have to in sympathy. Are you afraid, or just accepting, that you can’t out-think them?
I’ll give you a hint – a large chunk of Australia thinks they can out think them at the moment……
341 Glen – Crap Glen, you can argue that what they’re doing is of limited value but you can’t argue they are doing nothing. Rudd has always maintained there is no silver bullet but you and your crew don’t want to hear that. By the way compared to 11 1/2 years of conservative rule Labor is doing a massive amount because they did nothing to help in the last 12 months. NOTHING.
Because the Rudd Government is doing nothing….
It took Hawke and Keating 10 years to fix the almighty unholy mess that Howard left teh economy in last time.
Give them time Glen, he has left a bigger mess this time.
I have suggested already what they should do if they were smart, how about actually putting 30b into education now with that type of funding boost or put into a perpetual endowment fund one could really hold claim to an Education Revolution the biggest play on words in Australian political history. That would stop putting more money into the system and reduce inflation.
345 Glen – and how much were your crew going to give back in tax cuts? How responsible were they?
344
Arbie Jay
A 13b dollar surplus and low unemployment is hardly leaving the economy worse off than 96b of debt and unemployment at 8% when Howard got it off Keating.
Rudd backed them aswell yet he blames us for inflation how laughable, while it was ok to me-too all our economic policies when we were in office yet now he blames us!
A Prime Minister that actually takes responsibility, even when its not his fault.
Unlike Howard who would never take responsibility, especially if it was his fault.
How novel.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/this-will-hurt-says-pm/2008/03/04/1204402433762.html
Glen, for heaven sake put that Liberal handbook of replies away and think for yourself.
348 Glen – now who was in government when this inflation genie escaped from the bottle? Umm.
Glen, are you suggesting Howard would have reneged on the tax cuts if he’d won the election?
Glen these simple little arguments that ignore the politics while discussing economics or the opposite – ignoring the economics while discussing politics is just that – SIMPLE.
Politics is far more complicated.
Get credible.
“A 13b dollar surplus and low unemployment is hardly leaving the economy worse off than 96b of debt and unemployment at 8% when Howard got it off Keating.’
$400 billion squandered, lost oportunities, is how the Business Council of Australia described the Howard years. A golden opportunity lost. Howard inherited a framework that he acknowledged as sound and he blew it. Hawke and Keating did not have the rainbow that Howard and Costello got from the minerals boom.
The true test is how the lean and tough times are handled, Howard and Costello could not even mange the golden years. They have left a tulip economy with massive structural deficencies.
No but considering all the money the Tories put into endowment funds (health/education) he could well have done this given the current economic situation, after all it could have been a non-core promise.
348- Gary Gary who supported all our economic policies, who said he was an economic socialist, who talked about inflation, who didnt know what productivity was????????????????????? Need i say more?
355
Who got elected Glen?
Which population elected them?
Which population (according to recent polling) is very happy that they, or their fellow Australians elected them?
Need I say more?
Sheesh this is hard work!
The people did not re-elect Howie and his mob they elected KR and his, but the more Interest Rates go up and they will higher and higher and the more ineffectual the ALP are at stabilizing the economy the more people will drift from KR.
356 onimod – your post makes no sense, you cant accept that Rudd backed all of our economic policies which he now blames for inflation especially when he said he was an economic conservative, this is called being a hypocrite!
It’s called politics Glen, (as opposed to your blue sky dreaming).
When you realise that the world largely exists between the extremes, in the grey between the black and white, it’ll be worth having a proper discussion with you; until then there’s no common ground to even develop a discussion from. I can’t believe I’ve allowed myself to even get sucked in this far tonight.
All of us are hypocrits; all of us have failings; all of us tell lies, and yet we negotiate our way through these things every day by prioritising based on our own ethics and morals.
While you continue to break the elements down, instead of adding them up, you’re going no-where.
The state governments called for a summit on housing as far back as 2003, ignored by Howard and Costello, but now it appears things are moving. There is no quick fix, especially after Howard has been let loose on the economy.
But this is one way forward. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23321766-29277,00.html
No 359
A Housing Summit was held in 2004.
http://www.housingsummit.org.au/
Thanks GP
The housing summit was Hosted by ACOSS, ACTU, Housing Industry Association and National Housing Alliance*, the Forum brought together 60 invited participants from the housing, development and finance sectors, as well as from unions, community groups, local councils and academic experts.
Unfortunatley no state or federal govt representitives.
Though it did call for
Appoint a Commonwealth Minister for Housing,
Urban and Community Development at Cabinet
level and establish a corresponding National
Ministerial Council.
Develop a five-year National Housing Plan for
achieving specified affordability benchmarks for
home purchasers and renters by specified dates
Negotiate a five-year National Affordable
Housing Agreement between Commonwealth,
State/Territory and local governments to
integrate, rationalise and strengthen government
assistance for affordable housing.
http://www.housingsummit.org.au/05/media/Summit_callforaction.pdf
The states had called for a summit involving all governments, federal and state to address the issue, without the involvement of the federal govt there was no point to such a summit as howard continually resited such a summit.
I seem to recall that the Howard Govt denied there was a housing crisis, at a time when housing dominated every forum (QCOSS etc) that I attended. Or if they did pay any attention, their response was to blame the states or local govt. God I am so sick of blame shifting, now is the time for real solutions, it is a bloody tsunami out there. Kevin is showing some real initiative in raising the profile of the issue of housing affordability, we need to bring back public housing in some form, preferably community based. And the first priority must be to house those with mental health issues, who are currently wandering the streets. How obscene when we have the gall to class ourselves as ‘first world’.
Nelson is going to have to put some of the coalition backbenchers on a curfew to stop them roaming too widely. Maybe the Liberal and National Whips have forgotten the job description after 12 years of government partying.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23322650-2702,00.html
Steve
The same story was reported in the Advertiser here:
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23321269-5006301,00.html
The ever fair-minded Lord D was quoted as saying people should “go easy” on Vaile, as “after all he has just taken a $100,000 pay cut”. Yes it can’t be easy making ends meet on $127K plus expenses and allowances – roughly double the average income. I didn’t know Cabinet Minister was a job for life though.
On the other hand, this view is a little different to the views of the last government while in office on social security recipients having to repay any benefits that were overpaid, even if the mistake wasn’t their fault. Curious how the desire to protect the public purse dissipates when you want to be one of the recipients.
Its good to see the leader of the opposition has some willing helpers in his “Brendan07″ campaign.
I hope the suckers who voted these layabouts back in their seats are having second thoughts.
Socrates and asanque, on the other thread about NSW, it is revealed that Labor is ahead on every category including the economy and national security. Now that we are no longer bombarded with propaganda from the coalition, maybe these voters will behave differently.
Basil at #362
“we need to bring back public housing in some form, preferably community based. And the first priority must be to house those with mental health issues, who are currently wandering the streets. How obscene when we have the gall to class ourselves as ‘first world’.”
I agree.
Public housing is a must, an absolute imperative. Decent housing at cheap rental rates [even running at a loss is perfectly acceptable] ensuring however that above minimum quality is maintained and the obvious pitfalls from the past are not reduplicated. The private market is simply inadequate.
One thing you may not be aware of, the largest single cause of homelessness currently is women and children escaping domestic violence.
They, like the mental health issues you mention, have had their plight simply ignored and put in the ‘too hard’ basket.
And here lies Glen’s problem.
He fails to understand that problems such as the 3 above have been partly caused by and exacerbated by years of Coalition neglect and wrong-headed cold hearted ideologically driven policies. Until we actually start to look at what is really going on in our society, instead of mouthing platitudes and slogans, we will not be able to rectify the problems. When we do start, the problems will, in most cases, take a long time to fix.
To use a slogan “there are no silver bullets’.
367 fred, the rent assistance payment under the Howard Government was a disgrace too. It was just there as a sop so they could say they were doing something but it never actually worked in any sense. This is another area that will have to be reworked by this Government.
Pyne talking a lot of sense – if he is not careful he will end up the next sacrificial lamb in the chair.
THE Liberal Party is signing its death warrant if it does not move away from its hard-right policies, opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne says.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23322816-2702,00.html
Fred 367
I strongly agree on the problem with inadequate funding for homeless women. Even economically this is crazy, as it is far cheaper to provide these people with modest housing than pay all the costs arising from violence if they stay with the abuser. This one was particularly galling given that the previous government also funded some mens groups that represented the abusers! It puts Lord D’s infamous “things that batter’ remark in a rather unpleasant light.
Watching 4 Corners on Monday night, I sat up in my chair when I heard this rip snorter from JWH (as opposition leader in 1987, referring to Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s campaign for PM):
He will go down in history as the great wrecker of the conservative side of politics; not a man of vision and achievement but a man who for his own selfish power desires, with no basis of any policy or principle, is prepared to embark upon a wrecking course.
Inner Westie, I had exactly the same reaction when I heard that on 4 corners!
I think we all had a similar reaction on hearing Howard’s rant about King Peanut. It was delicious. It won’t be long before a former Lib politician says the same thing about Howard. Costello comes to mind once he abandons ship.
Sprite? anyone?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23322969-601,00.html
Seasprites
Is this the tester to see how palatable the bigger cuts might go down?
Fitzgibbon should be on the front lines next week with plenty of dorothy dixers and 7:30 & 10;30 commitments. His media so far has been fantastic – jargon free straight talking with a dash of diplomacy – positively ministerial.
I wonder how much contact he’s having with the big bomber Kim?
Can 7% go lower – you bet!
375 Looks like as usual all the coalition election promises are the non core promises.
Contracts were signed for the Sea Sprite helicopters in 1997 but it’s all the fault of the Keating Labor Government?
Since when has the issuing of tender documents ipso facto created contractual obligations? Did the tendering process not also entail the preparaton of design specifications by the tenderer?
And which bunch of incompetents accepted those designs and tenders?
Minchin and the Libs are pathological, even in their death throes, in attempting to avoid responsibility for anything.
Yes, Fulvio, I loved that bit from Minchin too: It’s all Keating’s fault.
Jaysus. Labor issued the tenders. The Libs signed the contracts in ‘97 and then spent the next 10 years dithering while thr project fell to pieces.
And, somehow, it’s all Keating’s fault.
Explains why they’re in opposition, really. They’ve proven themselves to be unable to take responsibility for anything (except for our current “historically low” interest rates, of course).
The additional problem with the Seasprites is that the new command and control systems of the outdated frigates they were supposed to fly from are so inadequate the ships are unable to defend themselves.
So if the Coalition had been returned we would have ended up with unusable choppers not flying from ships that cannot sail within cooee of an enemy.
During the ‘Cold War’ it was, incorrectly, rumoured that one of the Scandinavian countries had an answering machine attached to a permanent phone link to the Kremlin which in the event of war would endlessly announce in Russian “We surrender, comrades.” Given this and other defence contract shamozzles, future Coalition governments should be required to have a similar system linked to all potential foes!
I wonder if this is a line of dominos?
no helicopter = no ship defence = undeployable ships = cancel ship contract = changed defence priorities = change in tactical air command = dumping of hornet = reduced need for awacs = dumping of awacs etc etc?
It’s a lot cheaper to buy a couple of good diplomats than a good army, airforce and navy, and while the AFP keeps ramping up to meter out ’soft’ justice around the world it makes you wonder.
Personally I think there are better value ways to take Australian society forward than defence spending, though I’m not ‘Glen enough’ (chuckle chuckle) to think that’s got any political hope….Australia just isn’t confident enough to pull that off.
Minchin has missed the fundamental point of a ’sleight-of-hand’ trick – you have to be able to do something captivating with the other hand.
His other hand was amputated for him by the elecorate in November 2007.
And the latest audacity to come out of the Liberal bunker (or what’s left of it) is Minchin’s demand that the Government “come clean” on what it’s going to cost the taxpayer to cancel the contract!
Talk about hides like rhinos….
I would suggest that Mr Fitzgibbon reply – “Mr Minchin and his fellow government ministers, specifically Brendan Nelson, have, it appears, wasted XXX,XXX,XXX.00 million dollars of taxpayer money, or in other words, X number of first class hospitals, XXX number of schools or XXX,XXX number of skilled apprenticeships.”
I wonder when the first boffin recommended cancelling the contract – that’s a valuable piece of paper right now. Of course I KNOW it never reached the ministers desk, or at least there’s no evidence he actually read it, and I’m okay with that….NOT.
Gee I wonder what’s been driving inflation – ‘Can I sell you some fresh air? It’s at the special price of 1 billion….’
Ominod 383 – Yes, the valuable bit of paper. How many more of them are there to be exhumed from Defence and other departents?
Can you selll me some fresh air?
Who do you think I am, Malcolm turnbull in “caretaker” mode?
Now, IF you could produce drought-breaking rain out of fresh air, then I might be interested…
Mark Vaile has no clue.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/05/2181259.htm?section=justin
From the link @ 386 -
“I’m not doing anything as a lobbyist,
So Vaile’s not doing anything for the taxpayer’s $127,000 and now he’s not doing anything for whatever Servecorp is paying him. LOL
Where can I get a gig like this? I’m even willing to do both ‘jobs’ for half price if I can moonlight doing nothing on the night shift! All offers via William.
Mayo, there may be a job coming up for you soon .The nats will need a replacement for Vaile. You have a good understanding of what the job requirements are.
Think Big Mayo, this could be you…
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23328945-5014047,00.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/06/2182228.htm
Howard slams IR changes
Don’t you just love it! I’d like to see what reception he’d get here if he was to spout that rubbish. His own party has reversed his policies and he still doesn’t get it – he thinks he’s right and everyone else is wrong. What a loser. He’s also been caught out tell lies again as it’s now well known that the former government were seriously contemplating pulling the combat troops out of Iraq this year.
This former PM is an embarrassment to his party and an embarrassment to the country when he makes such comments in speeches. I’d say it’s down right Un-Australian!
Steve K,
JWH is not an embarrassment! As with all of us he is entitled to his view.
Ah good old Johnny, bitter and twisted.
391 John of Melbourne – even Paul Keating and Mark Latham John.
It’s got so bad that Gridlock Campbell is objecting to being called the Senior Liberal.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/newman-shuns-most-senior-liberal-tag/2008/03/06/1204779953079.html
391
John of Melbourne
This might be his ’stated’ opinion but who can believe anything that passes his lips? I believe that he was seriously looking at pulling our combat troops out of Iraq this year. I’d go so far as to say the decision had been made but wasn’t announced due to fears of being seen as ‘me tooing’ Labour. Note that our most senior military leader says our mission is complete.
Take a look again at the link as there are more quotes from his speech. He’s locked in a catatonic state with no possible recovery.
Howard will say anything and do anything to try an hold on to what is left of his reputation. The fact the he will now be seen as the Robinson Crusoe of Australian politics is pathetic but of so delicious.
Actually Howard attacking Rudd only helps Rudd.
Howard’s own party dumped his dearest policies and hard held beliefs totally discrediting him and, now the result of his poor economic management by way inflation and rates is coming out from beneath the bed.
When the discredited and defeated start attacking another it only raises the targets worth and credibility.
Howard got defeated at the election because of his IR and Iraq and yet like the spoilt child he refuses to admit it and would rather spit in the face of the Australian voters. Go for it Howard you cant lock up refugees like war criminals anymore or turn workers int business slaves or continue to neglect the economy.
No chance of Howard doing a Fraser, rather he is more likely to become bitter and twisted and more hateful as time goes by.
Seeing Johnnie rubbing shoulders with the who’s who of neocon extremists highlights how dangerously extreme politics had became in Australia. Howard seems more passionate about defending an ideology than anything else. I sincerely hope that Australia never has to endure such an intolerant and mean spirited prime minister again.
Seeing him on the news made me nauseated.
JWH said ” ‘I speak to you tonight as a continuing and unapologetic advocate of the broad conservative cause, but restlessly conscious, as I know you will be, that the battle of ideas is never completely won,’ “. God he’s still banging on about the ‘culture wars’ – he lost those too…..Or maybe it’s like Start Wars – certainly seem sto bet he longer it goes on the more tedious it gets.
Star Wars even.
Howard does seem to be really at home in the states with those who share his warped world view. He does seem to have taken a hell of a lot of his ideology from the American conservative movement, I wonder how many in the Liberal party actually and honestly share the same views?
I hear that Mark Vaile’s next job is for AWB.
John of Melbourne:
As you say, everyone is entitled to his/her own view – that’s what a lot of us think.
I am embarrassed by John Howard.
Ipso facto – he is an embarrassment.
Anyone see the next annointed one, the Member for Wentworth, on the 7.30 Report? Can’t stop being a lying, dissembling bastard. Can’t answer a question straight uo and honestly. Yep, doing well.
I hope Kevin Rudd is documenting what Tutbull said. Later, he’ll be able to hang him with every single word he said.
Don’t worry, the Dept of Prime minister & Cabinet are probably poring over the videotape and transcript as we speak
Pkus going through Hansard and the various media archives.
401
Sinowestie Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
“Howard does seem to be really at home in the states with those who share his warped world view…”
A crazy red neck among fellow crazy red necks? That’d be right.
And now Fluffer Bishop is backing the rodent’s comments about the Government’s IR changes!
Er, didn’t they decide to support those changes?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/07/2182686.htm?section=justin
There are too many lightweights in the LNP. Anyone remember Bill Cosby’s sketch “buck-buck”? What they need is a Fat Albert.
Yeah, I just saw Bishops comments. What are the opposition doing? They are bloody useless. Give them twenty years, they might be back in power, Strewth!
I must say it is a little difficult to decide the best place to post, between the multiple threads.
Suffice to say, not happy, John.
The longer Howard lives the more he will witness the myth of the Howard years dismantled. People will end up asking what good was it he actually was supposed to have done.
Bishop’s Pavlov response to Howard only goes to further damage the Liberal party. They just rolled over and up and over to dump WorkChoices and now Bishop gives it her public support again. These people are experienced politicians?
Are we going to get more of Howard in far countries shaking his fist at the sky in defiance of the Australian people? Maybe he is gathering another NT type invasion force of US neocon soldiers with which raid Australia and to begin again his 19th century cultural war.
And just having heard the latest News break.
Ms Julie Bishop, you may believe that Howard’s speech was brilliant, you may spend your life believing that Work Choices, in any of its forms, is acceptable to the electorate.
You may be assured, if that remains the case, that you will spend your life on the Opposition benches.
412 Michelle Grattan seems to think the Liberals need to take some action to sort out their troubles. Apparently the only ones who want to do nothing are the Liberals themselves.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/no-holds-barred-expm-lashes-out/2008/03/06/1204780002254.html
Sham-I-Am supports the do nothing Liberal approach and don’t resign if past your use by date theory.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23332968-2702,00.html
“The Coalition is not supporting all of the Rudd Government’s IR policies, there is a fine distinction here,” she said.
“We are not opposing the Transition Bill, but we will be holding them to account for the economic impact of their policies, if workers are worse off, if people lose their jobs, if small businesses lose confidence.”
________________________________________
This is a very fine distinction indeed and in fact pretty nonsensical. If they’re not oppoising the transition bill then the economic impacts of it are as much their responsibility as Labor’s. They have the numbers to block the legislation in the Senate and ought to do so if they have the strong belief that the legislation will have disastrous impacts on the economy.
Whilst the Liberal Party certainly lost the election they also have a mandate for those who supported them. That is, they have the mandate to best protect their constituents from any harm they perceive the Government may cause them.
To lay on their backs and say that they’re powerless when they most certainly are not is cheap opportunism. They’re just trying to have it both ways.
415 The Queensland liberal senator Sue Boyce made similar noises a couple of weeks ago, LTEP. It is clear that workchoices isn’t dead in the mind of the Federal Libs just a carcass awaiting resurrection.
The Sydney Morning Herald shows just what a puffed up little toad that Howard really is:
SECRET research handed to the Howard government showed its $46 million taxpayer-funded advertising campaign to promote Work Choices failed dismally.
The research – based on polls of hundreds of people every fortnight from August 2005 to February 2006 – showed that weeks of TV advertising only served to entrench apprehension about Work Choices – which John Howard is still defending while on the lecture circuit in Washington.
Despite the evidence, the government pressed on with another $20 million in Work Choices publicity over the next 18 months.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/howard-ignored-polling/2008/03/06/1204779971065.html
..what an odious creature. Just keep jamming it down their necks with their own money and hey, eventually it must work.
Standing up in the Neocon’s nest to sprout this codswallop about his ‘great reform’ is classic compulsive disorder behaviour. He doesn’t get it, we kicked him out because his policies were contemptable.
But we should thank the creep, because now the Howardista rump in the party are all pining for his ‘leadership’ again, and Julie Bishop, tired of fluffing Horatio Hornet, (and sensing rightly that getting Mr 7% up is a thankless task) is hot for Howard again.
You couldn’t write a better soap opera.
Oh, that Julie’s got a sense of humour. Try this:
“We believe that Labor must undertake and release independent economic modelling about the impact of any proposed changes in industrial relations.”
Maybe Joe Hockey could tell them how he released data on WorkChoices, you know, like he didn’t BEFORE the election!
These people have a friggin’ hide, and deserve to remain in opposition for the term of their natural lives.
What a hide!
Well, Mesmerelda has set the agenda nicely for Kev & Julia for next week.
Kev will pull out the defibrillator again.
I don’t believe we can call her a politician any more – she obviously doesn’t understand the basic skill set required.
Haha – can you imagine Nelson’s reaction when he heard what she said?
419
onimod
Poor Horatio, he’s going to have to replace his fluffer, as he just can’t have her running back to her ex every time the old boy tries to do a tired old lion roar in public.
What a game: Horatio and Mesmeralda have been trashing all the old Howard furniture, but the Rodent gets up at Neocon Central to claim his legacy was a great one. And what does Madame Mesmerelda do? She quickly jumps back to defending the Rodent.
Horatio needs to replace her quick smart, but of course he won’t. He’s paralysed on 7% and she’s wanting to go back to the ex.
It’s too funny for words.
JWH getting the Irving Kristol Award is right up there with Hermann Göring getting best and fairest from Adolf in the field of “exceptional intellectual or practical contributions to improved government policy, social welfare, or political understanding.”
I think the LP is attempting structural reform of the Constitution of Australia.
They’re trying put forward the idea of an opposition to the opposition.
I’m not sure it adds a lot to the democratic process….
Perhaps we need to legislate that indicative signage should be attached to the back of all “wedges” so that the Liberal party know which direction a wedge is travelling, and which way they should be throwing them?
LTEP
“Whilst the Liberal Party certainly lost the election they also have a mandate for those who supported them”
that would be their mums and um….
424
Glen.
Hardly jen, more than 47% of Australians that voted at the election placed their trust in the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party received a mandate from that 47% of electors and ought to be thinking of the best governance for all Australians.
To say, ‘Well Labor were elected… let them do what they want’ is either lazy or politically opportunist. If they still support WorkChoices they should be standing by it, regardless of the political consequences in the short term.
LTEP-
tongueFPIC.
Although I suspect their supporters are deserting in droves.
I agree in fact – they do have a responsibility to represent their constituents as well as listen to the judgements made by the people about their policies, and they have been told loud and clear that Workchoices stinks.
“…more than 47% of Australians that voted at the election placed their trust in the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party received a mandate from that 47% of electors…”
But this is not how politics works, LTEP. Unless the Liberal Party wants to be in opposition forever, it has to pay attention to what the MAJORITY of the public wants. And at the last election, it was very clear that the majority of Australians were sufficiently opposed to WorkChoices to vote for Labor rather than the Coalition.
The ongoing flip-flop between a pro- and anti-WorkChoices stance in the Coalition speaks very loudly that the Coalition actually supports WorkChoices but is trying to be against it in order to please the majority of Australians. It is clearly creating a great deal of tension for them, which is a very simple reflection of the fact that Coalition under Howard (and continuing today) lost its way. It no longer represents the interests of the most Australians. It became obsessed with neo-conservative ideology, and still is.
This is going to give a lot of potential ammunition for Labor. Gillard was already out today talking about the Liberals being the party of WorkChoices after Howard’s US speech to that neo-conservative think tank.
This tension will continue for a long time to come because the Coalition has too many ideological or religious extremists in its ranks, who are representing the fringes of society, not the majority. Good luck to them. They’re gonna need it. Howard has left a trail of destruction behind him…
Well I just don’t agree that elections ever send such a simple and clear message as you are suggesting. The result could just be because people were sick and tired of the Liberals and gave them the boot.
In any case, at any election you can make the case that a Government has been provided with all types of spurious mandates. For instance, the Liberals claim they had the mandate after the ‘98 election to introduce the GST. Did they? I think that’s at least doubtful.
Now, to argue that the Liberal Party ought to take one decision or another just because the majority of people think that way is also wrong in my view. This would provide a tyranny of the majority. Quite frankly, what the majority of people think on most things is silly. To me, a good government (and in similar ways a good opposition) will do what they believe to be in the best interests of the public, regardless of the popularity of that move.
Now, if the Liberals really had had a change of heart on WorkChoices and were now going to support its rollback it would all be very simple. However, what we’re getting is an attempt at play-acting, where they support it and hope it results in economic disaster, in which case they can say “Look… we told you this would happen.”
So in essence what they’re doing is saying ‘We know this will be bad for you’ but because it’s politically convenient for them they will pass the bill. In other words they’re hoping for the ruination of people’s lives and are quite happy to let that come to pass in order for them to win government.
Government scraps Friday sittings
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23335285-12377,00.html
News just in.
I do like Albanese’s choice of words:
“On the last Friday sitting of the parliament we saw a disgraceful performance of the opposition searching for relevance…We saw a deliberate and premeditated attack on our parliamentary processes by the opposition.”
Mr Albanese said he would not allow the parliament to be brought into disrepute, as opposition members had pledged to continue being deliberately disruptive.
I wonder how opposition back benchers feel now that their chance to be heard on Fridays will now be lost among general business on Mondays?
Probably the Labor government was a bit premature in setting up the Friday sittings. Gave the relevance deprivation group a chance to let of some steam when there wasn’t a voting mechanism to stop them.
Pity about the Friday sittings.
However they should have done it properly to start with and had a full proper sitting day. The parliament can’t function properly without divisions. It requires too much goodwill on both sides.
When do we get an equivalent of c-span so we can watch what they’re up to on Monday nights?
If they don’t want the oxygen, then fine I guess.
I wonder if it really was a mistake on the ALP’s part, or whether it was calculated all along? The videotape of the First Friday sitting won’t suddenly delete itself however.
Maybe you need to swat up on just what a majority means and what a mandate means, LTEP. Under your theory people who are beaten candidates in an election can still claim some sort of say in how the country is run can they?
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1998-99/99rp19.htm#Australia
432 Onimod, I think that videotape will be a major part of Australia’s political history and will be trotted out over the next fifteen years as needed.
Well, now the Libs have something else to moan about. They have even less time now to show us all their ineptitiude. They are a disgrace.
James J, the ‘no divisions’ provision has been used in the Senate for a number of years without problem. Additionally, on the occasions where the Senate sits on Fridays it is rare for there to be a question time. They just go through whatever business the Senate may have and get out of there.
However, as you point out, it works on good will and its obvious the Opposition was not properly consulted and there was little good will in place here.
Obviously the simple way to avoid all this silliness would be to ensure it was done with proper consultation. In all seriousness, private members business is not something so serious that a division will be required in any case. Any lack of respect for the chair should just immediately result in the suspension of sitting until the next sitting day with a note that that member has just cost taxpayers a million dollars.
As far as quorum requirements go I think its the obligation of both parties to ensure there is always a quorum present. As far as privelege goes it could be either party in which its member makes a statement that could require the protections of privelege. I think the deferment of quorum calls was a stupid decision to make and could’ve been avoided by just ensuring that the Government always had a quorum present for the 5 hours required on Fridays.
At least by sitting later on Monday it won’t stop them playing golf or going to the beach on Fridays.
The fact is if the Libs wanted to cooperate and treat the Friday sessions in the manner they were intended everything would have worked ok. I’m afraid “cooperation” and “Liberal” are words you can’t use in the same sentence. Pity really.
steve, of course they can. Everyone has the right to state how the country should be run. In fact people do that right here on these threads. Unfortunately, it is only the elected individuals who can stand up in Parliament and have their voices heard.
The Coalition has members in Parliament and control of one chamber. They have a mandate to do what their constituents want them to do. Similarly the Greens, Australian Democrats and Family First all have parliamentary representation, and along with that competing mandates.
What you’re stating is that the somehow the opinions of those who elected these members to the Parliament are somehow worth less than the opinions of those who elected Government members.
Mandate theory acknowledges and casts doubt on the idea that there is a singular, unquestionable mandate. However, it’s always convenient for governments to claim that one exists. Remember when the Coalition had a mandate to privatise Telstra without objection? Rightfully, the ALP considered that it was not in the best interests of the public and voted accordingly. Under a simplistic notion of mandates they ought to have passed it without question.
I notice in our local paper (the Heidelberg and Diamond Valley Weekly) that Malcolm Mackerras is predicting the Federal Court will order a by-election in McEwan.
Malcolm says “The ALP does not need to prove fraud, just that enough voters were disenfranchised by no fault of their own. The court is unlikely to simply kick Fran Bailey out though. A byelection is much more likely.”
The hearing is on March 20.
“…to argue that the Liberal Party ought to take one decision or another just because the majority of people think that way is also wrong in my view. This would provide a tyranny of the majority…”
LTEP, nobody is suggesting that the Liberal Party MUST support X or Y because the majority of Australians support it. There are no rules. And, yes, a party should consider what is in the best interests of its supporters.
BUT, when it comes to WorkChoices, the Liberal Party would be crazy to continue supporting it IF they want to reclaim government.
It’s pretty simple.
And let’s not forget that public opposition to WorkChoices goes beyond the level of the 2PP vote on election day. A number of surveys across the nation in the past couple of years have shown that Australians were overwhelmingly opposed to these laws, including a proportion of Liberal Party voters.
I’m wondering if you are actually one of those in the minority who would like to see WorkChoices stay – perhaps you are annoyed that the Liberal Party are supporting the new transition laws??
I think there are very few in the Liberal party who have a view one way or the other on Worstchoices – like most politician they are sheep.
There are a few believers, and a few haters. What they really object to is that Julia is making them all look like fools and so they are reacting.
Their behaviour is so predictable that Julia has them over a barrel no matter which way they turn. They’ll react to this again and again because the only thing that the core of the Liberal party commonly believes in is John Winston Howard.
Did you see him singing the star Spangled Banner like it was a church hymn?
who said we weren’t the 52nd state….
He’s still bloody embarrassing us!
And mouthing the words to Waltzing Matilda – looks like he was miming to a pre-recorded american singer – even though it was the bloke standing next to him singing.
“Did you see him singing the star Spangled Banner like it was a church hymn?”
Urgh, it was disgusting.
If ever there was a doubt that Howard was firmly in the neo-conservative camp, then that would have to be dispelled after THAT speech and performance. By letting the US basically write our foreign policy for us for so many years, Howard sold us out, BIG time. He should stay in the US – he’d be right at home in the southern midwest.
No a party shouldn’t consider what is in the best interest of its supporters but what is in the best interest of the country. If, after deliberation, they believe rolling back WorkChoices will be bad for the economy, they have the responsibility to oppose it.
Now, there is a situation where they believe the transitional bill will damage the economy. This is apparent from the statements of Ms Bishop. Yet they’re still ‘not opposing’ it. This to me, is demonstrating they do not have the interests of the country at heart, but their own self-interest. If they didn’t believe the rollback would be detrimental there would be no issue. However, it’s obvious that they do believe it will be which demonstrates the moral bankruptcy of their position.
The bottom line is every party should have more consideration than what will win them Government. In fact it was the complaint of many on these threads that the Howard Government was far too poll driven. So a party should not focus on polling too much yet should also not make decisions based on popularity rather than the correctness of the decision?
Also think about instances where it has been thought that taking a particular path would be electorally unpopular, such as the decrease in the age of sexual consent for homosexual people in Western Australia. Yet the decision was still made (and correctly so) because it was the right thing to do for the people of the state. If the Liberals think retaining WorkChoices is in the best interests of the Australian people they ought to push ahead with it regardless of public support.
As to your assertion in your last sentence. No I do not support WorkChoices, or even Australian Workplace Agreements with a weak safety net and limited grounds to object on administrative basis. However, that’s neither here nor there in an argument on the correct moral position to have when it comes to the duty of oppositions.
When I heard JWH last night my feelings for the Liberals went from pity to disgust!
And what would Rudd be doing while Howard is in Washington bagging Australia and bignoting himself?
http://nebuchadnezzarwoollyd.blogspot.com/2008/03/rudd-in-png.html
I think the Rudd honeymoon may come to somewhat of a hault with this carers payment issue. Not a good look. I just hope they think again on this.
448 – make that “to a hault”
As a Disability Pensioner, I reckon that “Bonus” should’ve been over 12 months rather than a lump sum once a year.
At least the Utilities Allowance wilkl be paid per quarter, so it will be more equitable.
And to clarify, the $1600 is a phurphy- $600 was for carers who claimed a Carers allowance, while those on the Carers pension got the fuill $1000.
450 Frank Calabrese – thanks Frank. The only thing I will say about it though is that it is too easily portrayed as taking from those in society that can do with the help. Talkback radio has been scathing and watch ACA and TT tonight. the government will be made out to be the biigest mongrels in the world. As I said, not a good look.
I am glad to see JWH is so popular in the US. I am so happy about it that I wish to move a motion that he move there permanently and never return to these shores. Do I have a seconder?
Tom.
Guys, please don’t jump the gun on the carer’s bonus….let’s just see how it pans out first.
I’m sure it is not as bad as it looks.
452 Tom
Careful – you put the earth off axis with that much unanimous movement!
I don’t want to start a religious discussion but as an atheist it amuses, saddens and frustrates me that JWH can claim to be acting honestly in line with his faith and yet our current PM, also a man of faith, appears to me as an ‘outsider’ to have a starkly better adhesion and understanding of that very same faith.
I would suggest that using faith as a differentiator in the political process has absolutely no place, because there’s no correlation to the believers actions.
The fact that the neocons can’t see the problem (and frankly neither do most of us) with the fact that there isn’t an outcry when faith and war are mentioned in the same speech (JWH) is more the a little disturbing when you look at the length of most faith based conflicts.
So Hockey and Pine have had a win on Friday sittings, have they?
Let’s see: net result is that backbenchers now have fewer opportunities to make representations on behalf of their constituents. Nice one! I hope local members pass it on to their voters.
453 Ogmios – you haven’t watched the news service or listened to talkback have you? I’m not concerned about the reality. The government hasn’t said this will happen but I am concerned how it is being portrayed. Nelson is coming out smelling like roses, if that’s possible.
repost from another tread.
The carers stuff is the biggest beat up this year. First of all they seem to be fixated on a $1600 figure – bull butter.
The figure is either $1000 or $600 depending on which benefit you get. So where the $1600 figure comes from I don’t know – maybe a situation where a couple are both recieving some sort of benefit to look after a child under 16.
But now the person with the disability gets an extra $500 and the carer gets an extra $500, situation the same or a $400 rise.
What a waste of oxygen – and yes I get a disability support pension. My family will be $400 better off.
Gary Bruce…..no, I have not followed the talkback or the MSM.
It will be interesting how the coalition reacts and I suspect a degree of caution on their behalf or it could be Brendon 06!
This could be a case of egg on face….but I could be mistaken.
And here is your answer.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/07/2183624.htm?section=justin
Frank, are the Liberals going to pay back the advertising money they wasted in the Liberal Propaganda department when their version was announced?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2004/06/13/1130802.htm
Now Today Tonight will show “how mean” the Rudd government is. All based on a newspaper report that hasn’t been confirmed by the government.
Today Tonight – “Pensioners and carers abandoned.”
The manditory example of a family caring for a disabled child and how mean Rudd is. Rightly or wrongly not a good look.
This is crap. The government can’t say what is in or out of the budget and these ar. . holes know it.
I think their carers beatup might have just got trumped by the Captain of an anti whaling boat being shot.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23336322-2,00.html
Frank….all the speculation and kafuffle regarding the carers will be a good thing I believe.
Nothing like putting the focus on these people’s plight which will ultimately give them a better deal.
Maybe there is a strategy in play regarding the impending tax cuts….just speculative, mind you.
And don’t you love crap like this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/07/2183207.htm
It’s an ANNUAL Payment, how are they coping the other 51 weeks of the year.
Can’t see how any of this will be helping Nelson much when his promise was extended by Labor.
http://www.qld.carers.org.au/news1.html
Exactly, especially when the “Bonus” was a once off payment paid each year.
And Jenny Macklin makes a telling point.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23336183-949,00.html
And this: From the ALP website, Policy Doc.
Election 07 Fact Sheet Disability and carers
A Rudd Labor Government will focus the disability services system on the needs of carers, particularly carers who have been looking after family members for many years. Older carers want to make plans so that their children will have access to appropriate support when they are no longer able to provide care. For some the pressure of caring is so great that they are unable to continue in the role.
Labor is committed to streamlining respite services to create a more sensible system for carers. Responsibility for respite services is currently split between several departments and programs without any attempt at coordination.
Labor has already announced that it will provide ADDITIONAL (my emphasis) support to the 120,000 Australians who receive the Carer Payment. Carer Payment recipients will receive a quarterly utilities allowance of $125, providing an annual amount of $500.
People receiving telephone allowance who also connect to the internet will also be eligible for an increased allowance – up from $88 to $132 a year.
Conclusion
People with disabilities and their carers deserve better than to be treated as political targets during election campaigns and subjected to endless excuses and buck passing in between.
With funding certainty and new leadership at the federal level, Australia can have a disability service system that enables people to plan for the future and achieve their full potential.
A Rudd Labor Government will work with the States and Territories to end the crisis approach to disability services and to build a more inclusive society that truly values the contributions of people with disabilities and their carers.
New Leadership 7 http://www.kevin07.com.au
CH 7 Perth beat this up in their usual style – still harping on the $1600 amount.
Clueless dolts.
It’s hard to know what the Opposition Organ ( formerly the Government Gazette) is bleating about. Apparently legislation has already been introduced to ensure the promise is delivered.
http://www.jennymacklin.fahcsia.gov.au/internet/jennymacklin.nsf/content/financial_support_15feb08.htm
They’re bleating about their “Cripple Bribe” given by their hero JWH
Oh Dear, Look what I found a Bill introduced into the Australian Parliament which does for carers exactly what Labor told them it would do for Carers before the last election. I hoped that in all the media interviews Nelson did today he mentioned that there is a Bill before Parliament dealing with the issue.
http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au/piweb/Repository/Legis/ems/Linked/15020803.pdf
Steve…..the smell of egg??
Why is the Government allowing this matter (carers allowance) to fester? Surely all it needs is for the Minister responsible is to come out and deny any change and point out the increased benefits, if this is the case as indicated by a couple of posters above, and the subject is put to bed.
What a trainwreck that Today Tonight Story was – the first woman bought a WASHING MACHINE with her $1000 – I thought the bonus was for day to day stuff for the caree.
477 [I thought the bonus was for day to day stuff for the caree.]
I thought it was just an election bribe from the Tories.
Oh and that too
476 Enjaybee – if a government starts ruling in or out that which is in the budget the smart alecs will be expecting this to happen on all manner of things. Not a good precedence to set. I wouldn’t rule out a bit of government kite flying here either. It could also be the old “give em the worst case scenario then produce half the whack and receive a sigh of relief at budget time” trick.
480 Anyway Gary every body knows what will be in the Budget – Labor’s election promises. Everyone also knows what will be slashed from the budget – the coalitions election promises. Thats why it is expected that huge cuts will be in the budget to counter the porkbarreling. I think it might send a message to the Libs at election time to only promise the amount of cuts they want in the next budget.
Gary at 480. Your thought also passed my mind (re worst case scenario et al) but what annoys me is what caused this controversy to surface in the first place. If it is just a beat up by the media shouldn’t it be dismissed by the government as just that as quickly as possible? Are they allowing a significant % of their supporters who benefit from the allowance to become disenchanted with them (not to mention the overall bad publicity this matter is causing) ?
Enjaybee, parliament will be sitting from Tuesday to Thursday next week. Monday is a holiday in Canberra and Friday is the day the coalition refuse to work so I’d say we’ll be hearing more about Nelson’s handling of this issue form Tuesday.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/info/sittings/sittingstext.htm
From Polytickedoff at LP:
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/07/contrast/#comment-445262
482 Enjaybee – I must admit I’m not happy that they’ve let it get this far but as Steve points out parliament is next week and questions will be asked. I really hope they have the answers. It is not a good look and provides a free kick to a very needy opposition. The bidg question is how does The Australian get hold of this stuff?
Frank apparently this one off payment has been going for 4 years, is that correct?
Correct, it was first paid in 2004 in time for that election and has been paid every year since.
JWH was, is and always will be an utter disgrace. His comments criticising Australia in a foreign country are sadly predictable. I cheer myself up by listening and watching this from the 2007 campaign and think what a lovely country we now have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdCO5S0_kI
What Costello said on budget night 2004:
Recognising the contribution of carers
Mr Speaker, carers who look after those with disabilities are unsung heroes.
Carer Payment is paid to those on low incomes who provide constant care for a disabled person or child. Carer Allowance is paid to those who live with and provide daily care and attention to a person with a disability.
We deeply value the work these people do.
Tonight I announce that around 80,000 people on a Carer Payment will receive an additional one-off payment of $1,000 and around 300,000 recipients of Carer Allowance will receive a payment of $600 before 30 June. These people are devoted to those who need help to look after themselves. We can afford to pay it. And they deserve it. It will cost $255 million.
At the moment, carers who do not live with the person they are caring for are not eligible for Carer Allowance. The Government will change this. $107 million will be allocated from 1 April 2005, to enable carers who provide substantial levels of personal care per week, but who do not live with the care recipient, to receive the payment. This will benefit around an additional 13,000 carers.
Carers are on duty all the time. They give of themselves in a selfless way in demanding circumstances. Recognising this, the Budget includes $99 million to expand the access of carers to respite services. Ageing parents caring for adult children will be entitled to up to four weeks respite a year. We will ask the States to match funding for this initiative.
http://www.budget.gov.au/2004-05/speech/html/speech.htm
A one off payment for the last 4 years has a permanent overtone about it. Withdrawing it, if that is what they do, does not look good in the eyes of the average punter.
Bill Shorten on the issue.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=28&ContentID=61852
Hockey and Bowen on LL
Hmm. I would think from the various things I’ve heard today on the subject of the Carer’s’ Allowance that the Gov’t is doing a rethink on how you fund support to people with disabilities and their carers. Let’s face it, Rudd would not have it any other way. This is a bloke who went out on his own time, no media, to find out for himself about the homeless and their plight. I don’t think any of the rest of the gov’t would have this group of people disadvantaged either. My supposition is that someone in the public service has let it slip to the OO, for them to do their usual mischief. The opposition have run with it. For goddess’ sake, Hockey is now touting Nelson as a bleeding heart on Lateline! Hockey is also attacking Rudd for travelling overseas prior to election as though this is something reprehensible, in and of itself. I suppose this is supposed to be some sort of counter to Vaille, Dolly and the rest of them just wandering off to do whatever takes their fancy, whenever it suits them.
ViggoP, What did you think about Lateline?
More misinformation, including claims that it’s lin ked to the stolen generation compensation.
http://blogs.thewest.com.au/general/news-blog-should-bonus-payments-to-carers-be-cut/
I note the Carer’s Alliance Website hasn’t been updated since the 20th of November last Year nor have made any comments about today’s story.
Well, it’s what you’d expect from that rag, isn’t it. Frank C?
Yep:-(
Back again.
It is correct that this ‘bonus’ was paid out for the last four years.
Great.
But nothing was done about the base rate for Carer Allowances.
Nor allowances or benefits of any type.
The now Opposition may posture as it wishes, but the simple fact is that the base rate has not been lifted, in those four years. And longer.
The ‘bonus’ was always intended to catch a vote. Cliffhanger stuff, for the long suffering.
I expect that the Rudd Government intends to increase the base rate, of the allowance proper. Matching the magically conjured but only election time bonus.
This to me, would present no difficulty. The budget was able to carry these ‘ ad hoc’ grants for years.
The difference to the recipients will be certainty of income. Rather than election to election bribery.
So there will be no need to anxiously hold a pencil over a bit of paper, every three years.
Crikey Whitey,
You are indeed correct, the fact that the Carers Allowance is approximately $90 per fortnight, and has been throughout the Howard Era, it was an insult that each budget, Costello was able to buy the votes of some carers by offering these few extra crumbs in one hit, no strings attached – whats the bet some carers spent it on themselves and not for the person they are caring for ?
Frank, human nature being what it is, no doubt some spent it on themselves.
The same kind of person who would milk their parent’s money, little bothered by its exhaustion and consequence for the aged parent.
But not all.
In fact, tonight I had a conversation with a daughter who has just found her mother to be in the same predicament. Thanks to the elder siblings who have Guardianship and Power of Attorney. Drained Mum’s money. No help, apart from the occasional cleaner. Margarine was off. I explained, as best I could, that services are both available and needed.
It would seem that neither money nor care remain, except in the case of this youngest daughter. Who herself has no money to offer, given her own circumstance, but she definitely cares.
Money, as I am sure you know, will be made available. Misspent, a different matter.
I offered some advice. On how to engage with
Obviously, not finished.
On how to engage with ….those who understand, who work in the area.
Who will endeavour.
HSO @ 494
Ho, hum.
Bowen OK
Uncle Joe – obnoxious
Virginia – not the right girl for the job: doesn’t know when to go in hard or when to leave well enough alone.
More leaks from the Oposition Organ.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23338903-601,00.html
And on cue is the Shamaham.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/dennisshanahan/index.php/theaustralian/comments/cuts_leave_rudds_reputation_in_tatters/
Shanahan’s at it again
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/dennisshanahan/index.php/theaustralian/comments/cuts_leave_rudds_reputation_in_tatters/
doesn’t know fact from conjecture, can’t put two bits of data together without jumping to the wrong conclusion.
You beat me to it, Frank
I wonder if these “leaks” are the Opposition Organ’s attempt to recast Nelson as the Caring Leader ?
Sounds like a disaffected public servant is the deep throat here, leaking the moves to improve payments spun as taking away a benefit. There must be a lot of rodent offspring still left deep in the bowels of the PS. Time to call in the fumigators. Basil does not like any rats in his hotel!
Now they tell us (as if we didn’t already know):
AUSTRALIA’S financial institutions have lent billions of dollars to home buyers who were not subject to basic credit checks and had a history of defaults, putting them in the “sub-prime” category that continues to terrorise world financial markets.
The revelation, contained in research conducted by Dun & Bradstreet exclusively for The Weekend Australian, will add to investor fears about Australian banks’ exposure to the global turmoil caused by the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market in the US.
While Shanahan plies his anti – Labor trade other people in the OO say ” …. the Treasury said spending under the Howard government was unsustainable and likened its profligacy to that of the Whitlam Labor government.” Of course the other thing that must be said here is that we are only getting one side of the story and these mongrels know it. The governments hands are tied behind their back. They can’t be disclosing what is in or out of the budget.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/sideshow-takes-on-delusions-of-grandeur/2008/03/07/1204780063499.html
worth a quite little cheer in the confines of your own home…..
Time to get back to the Australia where we call a spade a fu*king shovel
Brendon 07 will be minus07 once people realise that he (with the help of the OO) is preying on the fears of the old, frail and handicapped with this misinformation campaign to try and boost his and his sleeziod party’s poll ratings.
I posted at the Shamaham blog questioning the integrity of the reporting of the carers and pensioners bonuses and guess what….I was blocked which confirms my suspicions that it is a beat-up and causing consternation to the demographic that are supposed to affected.
Libs are sick of waiting for that budget bounce, so will do anything to get a lift and try to avoid another humiliating set of numbers before they have to front up at question time next week
But if Rudd keeps going after carers it’s not a good look, mind you it is debatable that the Tories can get a bounce in the polls anyway given the state they’re in. Even if they found the cure for cancer people still wouldn’t back them atm.
Hello glen
I’m not sure but i think the 20th of march is when the new $500 pa utilities bonus starts so that gives your lot a couple of weeks to keep up the frighteners
Funny that Brough struggled without success to get proper funding for the Commonwealth State Disability agreement and Costello throws a thousand dollars in the budget as a bribe.
I can remember Brough being sent back to Canberra by the State because he came to the Brisbane meeting with no cash to put into the Disability Agreement.
Nelson should trot Turnbull as Opposition Treasurer out next week to explain the coalition messing up of funding for the sector.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200704/s1888641.htm
516 Glen – you’re probably right but it isn’t a good look by the government even if they are doing the correct thing economically (which by the way I’m unsure of, not being an economist. I’d prefer they leave those of most need alone if possible.
Mind you we’re assuming the OO has got it right and I’m yet to be convinced. It has given the Rudd haters a free kick though. They need it.
519 The truth is Gary that the whole Commonwealth funding of the Disability Sector is just another mess left by the Howard Government that Labor is left to clean up. Figures have repeatedly shown the states have been shouldering the responsibility while the Commonwealth Government with ministers of the non performing levels of Brough were unable to achieve even the slenderest of gains from the Treasurer.
See the graph on page five of this documment to see just how bad and hopeless Brough and Co were.
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/cstda/submissions/sub03a.pdf
Not only have they not had gains but actual year on year decreases. Why hasn’t Sham-I-am exposed this before now? It’s been going on for a long time.
Problem is Steve the conservative lazy press don’t want to know. It’s easier and sells more papers if they can scare people.
Ha, just as I suspected, as the smoke clears the sham has been exposed for what it was…..the next sitting of Parliament will be very interesting.
524 Ogmios – Is this statement based on further information or on what we know now?
Ogmios it is the same with the health system, road,rail and port infrastucture, water for urban consumers, public housing, dental funding, etc. The Howard Government was a joke in almost every aspect and their failure in disability services is typical: Slash the funding year after year and hand out a bribe backed by massive advertising campaigns to try to win votes.
514 Ogmios – I wrote a scathing posting to Shama’s blog much earlier this morning and you guessed it, no show. So much for free speech. It shows how he wants to convey the idea that most people are with him on this. I notice the Young Libs and the usual Rudd haters (the “I told you so” lot) are active on the blog.
Ain’t it amazing, all the outrage at the $500 bonus being scrapped but no mention of the fact it is being replaced by $700+ of other allowances
1 Utilities Allowance will increase from $107.20 a year to $500 a year.
“The increased allowance will be paid to all current recipients and extended to all recipients of the Carer Payment, Disability Support Pension, Widow B Pension, Wife Pension and Bereavement Allowance,” Ms Macklin said
“Veterans and their partners receiving the invalidity service pension, partner service pension or an income support supplement will also receive the allowance for the first time.
2 The Seniors Concession Allowance will rise from $218 a year to $500 a year for around 320,000 Commonwealth Seniors Health Card and Gold Card holders, and will also be paid quarterly in line with the Utilities Allowance
3 An increased rate of Telephone Allowance from $88 a year to $132 a year, will be available for around one million veterans, income support recipients of Age Pension age, Commonwealth Seniors Health Card holders and recipients of Carer Payment and Disability Support Pension who have a home internet connection
528 vera – you just don’t get it. It’s not the truth and both sides of the story the conservative press want. Hell that may show the government isn’t as bad as they want to paint it. Please get with it.
Gary, just call it a hunch….the government putting the less fortunate worse off goes against the grain.
Steve, the last government left our social services in a complete mess and it will take a very long time to correct the imbalance.
I suspect the culture of bribes will be replaced by the necessary funding that has to be the case in a responsible society.
Ogmios I suspect that the budget this year will be a rerun of the last Federal election campaign with Labor wanting to slash extravagant bribes and pork barreling from the Tories and the Tories crying that they are the ones who know best because they were born to rule. Cry they will, it has already begun and will become a river of crocodile tears by budget night.
Here’s an idea: ditch the Medicare rebate, ditch negative gearing on non-residential properties and ditch federal funding of elite private schools. Then redirect the money saved to carers.
(And don’t call me naive!)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/03/us_oilman_sentenced_to_prison.php
When you use bribery and corruption to scam the ‘oil for food ‘progamme for personal gain, in the U.S. you are jailed and fined millions of dollars. Howard,the honourable conservative,sets up a mickey mouse inquiry and everybody that appears before it does a Sarg. Shulz I know nothing!Thank God for all those honourable and now caring conservatives. I seem to remember it was Howard’s ambition to take away disability payments and put them to work.
532 Inner Westie – might work, at least until the conservatives are voted back in the next election.
It’s the seniors who are the main cause for concern now according to the mad monk. The Rudd Government is just being mean and tricky now they are in power.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080307/2/162wx.html
Vera’s point two at 538 doesn’t quite give the same impression.
2 The Seniors Concession Allowance will rise from $218 a year to $500 a year for around 320,000 Commonwealth Seniors Health Card and Gold Card holders, and will also be paid quarterly in line with the Utilities Allowance
Concern from the bloke who kicked Bernie Banton in the guts?… i’d like to see that!
It would be nice if the government refuted these claims with the facts. This scare campaign is disgusting.
I wonder if they expecting seniors and carers to donate now. Oh Dear, the sight of this many crocodile tears in one day is just too much.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/liberal-party-faces-financial-crisis-reports/2008/03/08/1204780107324.html
Aren’t they fortunate that the bill for Party political advertising for the past few years went to the taxpayer and not the Liberal Party?
Yes, I suppose if I were earning $200K pa, enjoying health care orders of magnitude superior to that provided by the under-funded, over-stressed public system, managing an investment property portfolio and sending my children to Ascham or St Andrew’s, I’d be fighting tooth and nail to protect any government handout or tax break I could get my mitts on, even if it were at the expense of society’s most vulnerable and disadvantaged.
But sarcasm (or truth?) aside, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a constituency amongst the high-wealth demographic that supported the idea of a funding reprioritisation along the lines I outlined above. It seems to me a self-fulfilling myth emerged during the Howard years about the electoral risks associated with reducing or selectively abolishing middle class welfare.
541 Myth? You haven’t seen the churches, Murdoch Press etc in full flight, Inner Westie. They will say and do anything to get the Liberal party re elected. If there is no story they will manufacture one like they have with the disability story and the seniors story. Even if a policy made good sense it would not stand the pressure of vested interests in this country.
Even Nelson will be dumped ASAP if if his figures do not turn around and start to point to a Liberal win. Conservatives despise change and will do anything to maintain the status quo, especially when they are not in power and calling the shots.
steve
I don’t see much evidence of change aversion in
1. Troops to Iraq.
2. Troops to Aboriginal communities.
3. AWAs and a nobbled IR Commission.
4. The SES schools’ funding model.
5. Cultural warrior plants on ABC and reserve bank boards.
etc.
In the Howard government’s case, the label ‘conservative’ was a euphemism for ‘radical neo-liberal revolutionary’!
543 Inner Westie, I’ll reserve my judgment on that one until I see the response to this year’s budget which is almost upon us. Some of the Tories are only just getting the idea that they are no longer in Government. I think Swan is far too cautious and experienced to give the Tories much to damage him with in this budget.
The problem the people who are crystal ball gazing have is that many of their fears will not be realised on Budget night because they are just guessing and the Government does not confirm or deny what is in the budget till budget night.
I paid a professional visit to the local homeless hostel yesterday, amazing the change among the staff, a wonderful dedicated bunch who really go the extra mile for their clients. There is now an attitude of optimism, things are already changing for the better. Better servicing by outreach teams from Health, and signs of a real commitment by Government to make change happen. At long last we are free of these cynical social darwinists, how did we endure them for so long?
Oh, Steve and Basil….twas like being in a societal coma.
I too expect some egg on the doubter’s faces come the night of the Budget.
I too have noticed the spring in the people’s step.
Sorry…..should have been “me too’s.
Got to keep the fires alight in the land of Neo-Conopia!
Latest housing Assistance data is here:
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/index.cfm/title/10563
Inner Westie @ 543
Yeah! Not like those reactionary Laborites with no social conscience and just in it for themselves.
ViggoP
Steven Conroy and the entire NSW government cabinet (Verity Firth excepted) come to mind.
I voted Greens on 24/11. You won’t get any arguments from me about the need to clean out the hacks, machine men and women, visionless technocrats and mediocre seat warmers on both sides of mainstream parliametary politics in this country.
The trick the Libs played with pensions ect. is that they added on supplements and one off payments.
Why? Because only the basic pension rate is indexed to MWATE if they increased the pensions they would have had to pay more.
So a supplement here a bribe there and hey presto it costs you less than if you had just increased the pension by the same amount.
Tricky Buggers.
So we had Costello laying a golden egg to the tune of $250 Million all paid on one day. Good way to cause inflation and fudge figures.
Inner Westie….a bureaucratic enema???
Oh Dear, another former Minister in strife. Should we add his name to potential by elections.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/bribe-claim-rocks-wool-trade-body/2008/03/07/1204780109321.html
Sorry, he got out while the going was good.
Well, there you go, fellow bludgers. Rudd has just been on the news saying we have to go through the budget process, but there’s no way we’re going to leave the most vulnerable in society in the lurch, specifically mentioning carers. Knew it. Let’s see the sham’s spin on this. The sooner the ABC gets a thorough cleaning out the better, in my view. The govt. can do bugger all about the OO and the odious bastards who purport to be journalists, such as the sham, but I’m heartily sick of the ABC parroting what’s reported in the OO.
Ogmios
As well as making me chuckle, you’ve caused me to connect the name Michael Costa with the word enema. So thanks for that … I think I’ll go and get a cup of tea.
Steve, I find it interesting how most of the time you refer to Brisbane Times as a source.
Just an observation on a positive note.
Inner Westie…after the confabulated news we’ve had to endure….a BEX would not be out of the question…..LOL!
Well the other local option is Murdoch’s ‘Curious Snail’ and I don’t like to encourage them.
I suggest that the Howard apologist over that the Australian be referred to as Dennis Shamahan from here on. He knows that he spouts lies and tries to pass it off as truth. He is a sham through and through.
Steve K, do you have a problem with journalists who have conservative views, you don’t seem to have a problem with left wing journalists yet you single out the few journos who are centre-right and claim they have no credibility when one could make similar arguments about some left wing journos.
Deal with it not all jurnos are raving socialists some are conservative but that doesnt make their views any less valid than those coming from left wing journos.
Here’s trouble.
561 [Deal with it not all jurnos are raving socialists some are conservative but that doesnt make their views any less valid than those coming from left wing journos.]
We don’t have to read conservative journalists Glen, you do for us. That is how the issue is dealt with.
Then don’t complain about journos who hold the Government accountable, that’s their job!
No, that’s the opposition’s job. But when they are hopeless I suppose someone has to do it.
Yep, the Opposition Orifice has exposed the mother of all cracks.
Boy, have I been having fun with the moderator today…the truth hurts and the journalist is a fried egg.
Sheesh, when will the bottom be established???
Ah what do you think Nelson has been doing attacking Rudd for gutting the allowances for carers and seniors, that’s holding them accountable…Steve for left wingers who pride themselves on tolerance your side of politics doesn’t seem so tolerant when people criticise what the left is doing when they get into power!
Nelson has been running around talking nonsense and ensuring his ppm heads towards zero. The only one who will be held accountable for Nelson’s performance is Nelson. Bring on Jules or Malcolm.
Jules will never get it she hasn’t got the numbers, and while Malcolm probably does why would he want the most thankless job in the country right now, Malcolm is no idiot he’ll only want the power if he can become PM.
You told us that about Costello. Promises, promises. Time to act. Get rid of the deadwood. Clean out the dross.
But Costello never did have the numbers….
Steve he’s been leader for 100 days, give the bloke a chance!
He’ll have at least a year in the job i believe before they think about removing him.
One hundred days too long. Next…
Shamahan is not holding the Govt. accountable – he’s spreading rumours and passing it off as leaks. Rudd has been forced to make statement:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/08/2184164.htm
where he says “…What I can say to carers and pensioners right across Australia that there is no way on God’s earth that I intend to leave them in the lurch…” He could hardly put it more strongly than that now could he?
It is usual for governments to say that they are ruling nothing in nor out of their budget considerations and Rudd has rightly tried to maintain that line. He now has had to make the pragmatic decision to make an exception to that policy. I don’t really care much about right v left journalists so longs as they don’t pass off lies as fact such as Shamahan has been doing these past two days.
It took 2 years to get rid of Crean and yet we should dump Nelson after 100days………
Glen, oh Glen…I like this left wing piffle that you saddle all and sundry that don’t agree with your ideology.
Most amusing if it twas bereft of abusing.
I would not crow loud until the Budget is delivered…but you are in the know as far as this is concerned…must be on the same astral plane that Denis the Grate occupies.
Nelson has nothing to offer. Time for a change.
You know as well as I what that means, he’s going to cancel the payment of bonuses in favour of a system of incremental increases that will not be as popular, as much or as needed as the lump sum payments!
If things don’t get worse for pensioners/carers then Shannas may have saved them from the wrath of the razor gang by bringing to attention the budget leaks have you thought about that Steve K?
Just like his political contributions changes are not aimed at kicking the Liberal Party when it’s down!
Steve…not fishnets again.
577 [If things don’t get worse for pensioners/carers then Shannas may have saved them from the wrath of the razor gang by bringing to attention the budget leaks have you thought about that Steve K?]
More likely Sham-I-Am just made the story up.
577 Glen, Who are you referring to in your 3rd para? Shamahan or Mr 7%?
So Shamahan has saved pensioners from destitution. Wonderful chap that Shamahan. He’s always supported the vulnerable in our society. How is it that you know what form of payment will be popular with the beneficiaries? Done your own private research? You watch question time this week and see if Nelson’s crocodile tears work.
Steve K…bingo is not his name.
577 Glen – Come off it. The government never intended to make carers or pensioners worse off. Bloody hell, it’s a Labor government. This was a beat up and now it will be said they’ve changed their mind because of the pressure. Another beat up on this story.
Rudd, him trying to change the level at which a donation has to make public the names/companies of those donating…just a political move because he knows the ALP gets millions from Unions and if companies have to declare they give money to the Liberals the ALP will demand money from them too!
What would you rather a lump sum of 500 dollars for seniors, 600 and up to 1600 for carers or a couple of bucks more with centre link its a no brainer as to which one is more preferable.
Steve K, its nice to know that Rudd is a wuss when it comes down to the punch, he couldn’t handle the negative press coming out of him not being present when Parliament sat not to mention that it was unconstitutional.
582 That’s the problem with Glen’s dreamworld. Once the fantasy is exposed it rolls on to the next improbable hallucination.
I bet the government has come up with a series of scenarios and someone has chosen the worst case scenario to pubicise which they never intended to use. Hell, do you really think they are that politically stupid? Rudd’s latest comment shows that he isn’t. “There is no way on god’s green earth that I would leave these people in the lurch,” he said. Does that sound like he is going to commit political suicide, I don’t think so.
Gosh 583 Glen – are you suggesting extortion?!
“…if companies have to declare they give money to the Liberals the ALP will demand money from them too!…”
583 Glen – I can see now why you are considered a prat.
“…its nice to know that Rudd is a wuss when it comes down to the punch, he couldn’t handle the negative press coming out of him not being present when Parliament sat not to mention that it was unconstitutional.”
The negative press was fairly and squarely aimed at the children on the opposition front benches. Do you simply look at the pictures and skip the words?
583 Glen – just explain to me why Howard made it so that donations up to 10,000 dollars could remain secret. While you’re at it tell me how making the disclosure figure $1,000 makes it even better for the Labor Party.
Gary… this was always a beat up and will be detrimental to many.
Being mean and green…how does a man recycle a burnt out quasi-journalist???
The pensioners would actually end up with MORE money under Labor’s plan Glen.
M O R E!!!
Rudd did the Libs a favour by cutting out the Friday sittings. Now they can’t show us what little spoilt brats they are. I would have been very happy for it to continue.
MORE wasn’t mentioned in his talking points Gary. Just wait till he faxes party HQ for some more details of the plan.
Glen
If you care to take the time to look at the coalition policy for the last election you will find that they intended to “annualise” the carers bonuses via the utilities allowance, yet you get all puffed up with hubris when a pathetic no talent political editor condemns the policy espoused by Peter (get me outa here) Costello.
Read the policy mate. It stinks. More mean and tricky weasel words.
Gary…the opposition are the paralax of the Indian test side…in this modern world there is medication to deal with such folly!
593 ruawake – good pick up. Do you think that might get a run in parliament next week?
Isn’t the coalition Party room meeting on Tuesday morning? If they sit regularly till 5.00am or 6.00am. they will be nice and tired and cranky at the meeting each week.
589 Ogmios – I believe you are right. Much egg will be distributed come budget night one feels.
596 steve – to be honest I don’t think they nedd lack of sleep to be dopey and argumentative.
No, it looks like the party room meeting has been on Wednesday.
Much more sensible to distribute the carer’s etc payments on an incremental basis, I know that in the past the pokie palaces used to rub their hands with glee at the thought of that bonus hitting the banks. Figures showed a spike in poker machine turnover every time. Would have made McGauran very happy.
As DeeCee on ozforums.com.au points out it is even worse, the missing member for Higgins was quoted as saying the annualisation was per household. (although as usual his words were open to many interpretations).
So sorry you people who maybe got upto $1600 our policy is you get $500.
I posted this on shamahams blog at 11:00 am. Guess what.
On the ABC, how long before we can get rid of Madam Lash Albrechtsen and co and while we are at it that disgusting creep Christopher Pearson from SBS. New broom and all that!
601
Hey, it was the same for me.
In the scheme of things there is three stories…one side and the other side and the truth…that will come back to bite the kite flyers.
I have sent a couple of emails to Madonna King – ABC Brisbane morning presenter asking her to clarify the situation.
Ha fat chance – she writes for the News Ltd Courier Mail in fact shes married to the editor.
She needs to either come clean or ship out.
Brisbane has one paper – so all major political news is filtered through Ms King and David Fagan.
Aha a new mission.
604
I see a future in the Brisbane Times…would I be mistaken Steve???
No wonder Sham-I -am is trying to help Nelson with a beat up story. Past budgets from the coalition are looking worse with each passing day.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/03/treasury-tells-thuth-about-its-past.html
604 [I see a future in the Brisbane Times…would I be mistaken Steve???]
Huh? The Brisbane Times is only an online paper not a crystal ball.
Sheesh! What a beat up!
The Optional Oppostion sure knows how to mire themselves further.
First off, they expose their selfish, inadequate bribery, then set out to scare even the most should be level headed heads of organisations.
Who ought to know better.
Clearly influenced still by the hand to mouth at election day bribes they have suffered for a decade. And easily panicked. Especially at the hands of the media. Which has sought to inflame fear.
Delighted that Kev, as you above have said, has said ‘no way’.
Not that it will shut the media up.
608 Crikey Whitey, I think Dennis has set Nelson up for a sucker punch in Parliament next week. I think ‘the Sham’ might be a Turnbull supporter and want to put Nelson in an embarrassing position.
Gosh, Steve..that is arcane, indeed. Yet I doubt that Dennis is that astute.
I think that the Libs have set themselves up for a sucker punch, as you put it.
Flying their ancient, tattered kites, sure to plummet.
And the good old Sunday Crimes continues the lies in their editorial.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23342677-5005374,00.html
Glen should be pleased.
Julie Bishop is to be on “Insiders” tomorrow.
I was going to be uncharitable and describe how I believe it will all unfold in Glen’s household in the morning, but I think it would be better left to others imaginations.
However, tactics matter. Kev is out of the country at the very time these attacks are launched. Funny, that.
When Kev was first out of the country, Julia was the Acting PM.
Logically she is, I suppose, now.
So she should be out there, employing her articulate, measured arrows, to calm this hysteria.
The Adelaide Festival is showing a play of the Dunstan years.
Lesson. Don at the barricades, calming the population.
The potential run on Adelaide Bank.
The necessity of holding back the imminent tidal wave at Glenelg, Canute like.
I note that ACOSS didn’t make any comment, which should say a lot about e truthfulness of the original article, nor did the Carers Alliance political party who ran candidates at the last election and whose website hasn’t been updated since the 20th of November.
The anti Labor media arms are having a ball with this. It truly is disgusting how they are scaring people.
Yes, Frank.
Most organisations are not engaged. Nor possibly asked their opinion.
Brotherhood of St Lawrence, for one, perhaps the foremost public critic of Howard’s policies.
The media will have scrounged around, feeding on those they can encourage to buy in.
Have just heard of someone who was disenfranchised from prepoll voting in the City Council elections next week. He is flying o/s tomorrow but wasn’t allowed to vote at the Brisbane city Hall booth because they only allow voting on weekdays.
And note that they found the carers of the multiple disabilities to interview, mostly with autism I notice (I’m not being dispariging, I have both a nephew and great niece with that problem). I reckon these people were “recommended” by the relevent carers bodies who did comment, as there is no listing for “people with disabilities for media appearances” in the phone book.
ruawake mentioned earlier the Courier Mail but I must say this article puts a good light on it all for Kev.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23340406-952,00.html
Just a quote by Kev, “What I can say to carers and pensioners right across Australia (is) there is no way on God’s earth that I intend to leave them in the lurch.
“Right now, we are engaged in a budget process where everything is being debated in preparation for the upcoming budget,” Mr Rudd said.
“What I can say to carers and pensioners right across Australia (is) there is no way on God’s earth that I intend to leave them in the lurch.
“I will say to carers and pensioners across Australia that as a Labor government we are there to extend a helping hand to those in need, and not to push them to one side as if they are unimportant – they are not.”
Boy, doesn’t that put the lie to all of this BS?
Frank. Makes one question the agenda of the responding organisations.
If they are not apolitical, their constituents need to ask a few questions.
611 Frank Calabrese – who writes those editorials for that rag, Tuckey?
Remember, Howard introduced legislation to basically strip funding to any non-government body who dared criticised it.
Sorry, put this on the wrong thread.
New Galaxy out.
More conservative voters (61%) want Nelson to quit than the general electorate (51%). In Galaxy, only 7% of Lib voters want Nelson to stay on. They’re going to need a second Nightwatchman. Actually, I have seen that a couple of times when the first nightwatchman gets out after a few balls. Maybe the lovely Ms Bishop…
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23342799-5005371,00.html
I do remember, Frank.
That is why I say they are easily scared.
The Dwarf is suggesting that Turnbull won’t be able be stop himself and will take over. I think Hockey would be a really good choice. I thought Cossie might give it a thought but if the Milne hasn’t mentioned him as a possible, Cossie must have really spat the dummy.
Is it the wrong thread, Diogenes?
William will fix it.
Talk about a rort.
I should add that the Carers Payment is meanstest, while the Carers Allowance isn’t.
Really it should be one payment for ALL Carers.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23334176-949,00.html
625 Diogenes – Hockey has so much baggage. The government would have a field day with his IR (Workchoices) background. I can see the ads now for the next election.
Gary Bruce @ 621
Frank Calabrese – who writes those editorials for that rag, Tuckey?
Probably, but he’s on a boat at the moment giving lectures on everything he knows about growing wheat, and global warming. Who would have guessed that an ex publican, part time crim brawler and sometimes politician was an expert on them subjects. Bit of a dark horse is ‘our’ Wilson. On the downside, it keeps the lectures short which means the old dears he’s
hectoringregaling with his vast knowledge miss out on a well deserved kip.I’m guessing Ironbar has engaged a ghost writer while he’s away. Probably a work experience lad from the Young Libs. Glen?
We may well need a second nightwatchman after this performance from the News corp stable and Brendan Nelson. There is no way that this story will not be throughly discredited by the end of the sitting day on Tuesday.
Swan and Rudd will see this as an affront to everything they stand for and believe in. I doubt whether Nelson will have ever seen a storm brewing like this one. It is hard to see Nelson surviving when it is time for Shanahan and himself to eat humble pie over this beatup.
ABC TV News item, and note the their use of the Tassie incident with the cranky pensioner.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200803/r230786_921460.asx
629 MayoFeral – LMAO
The fact is, Frank, that the Allowance/Benefit/Pension, add to that what you may, is so distorted as to be incomprehensible.
Or any other of the systems.
Overloaded with political twists and turns, voter buy jump starts, which have gone on year after year.
My sister in law who works in the Tax Department, has collisions of knowledge between Centrelink, Tax, Family Benefit and Allowances, Family Maintenance.
She spends a good deal of time working and worrying her way through the damned intricacies. Challenging Centrelink officers, who make the most stupid and wrong of statements as to entitlements.
Not to mention a certain Centrelink attitude!
Which I will be sure to continue ranting about, to Kev,
It looks like the Libs have taken their tactics here straight out of the Queensland Liberals handbook. Unfortunately for them the results are always messier and less effective than the potential for damaging the Government that they always dream of inflicting. It will all end in tears and Leadership instability for the Liberals I’m afraid, we’ve seen this sort of thing tried and failed too many times in the past.
The next Newspoll for Nelson will make the last one positively encouraging.
Umm, what did I not make clear back at 555? Anyone?
I love the “honeymoon is over” headlines.
How many times has Sham-I-Am written just that? And how many times has he been wrong? 100%.
They’re willing it to happen. Surely they can’t be wrong THIS time? Well, actually…
Then again, Rudd’s popularity is at a record high for any Prime Minister. Nelson’s is at an all time low, as is his party’s.
There probably isn’t anywhere for Rudd to go now but down a little. I can hear the crowing even before it’s started.
Pretty disgusting all the same.
636 BB just reserve a bit of room for the sitting on Tuesday, it will be a cracker reminiscent of the mudthrowing of the Liberals against Rudd last year.
BB, I think that despite the concerted rubbish from the OO and the hopefully to be re-constucted ABC, that the gov’t and Rudd have already demonstrated, they are disciplined, competent, focussed, and actually mostly know what they’re talking about. Which, when you think about it, is about a zillion miles away from the Opposition.
Did read and note your 555, Bushfire.
Nelson will obtain an even more minus, in due course, over this absurd and as you say, disgusting, carrion.
635 Harry ‘Snapper’ Organs – Spot on Harry. Bloody talk radio parrot the OO as well, especially Mitchell on AW.
Have you noticed that these “outrages” are usually released on a Thursday – which co-incides with when either Newspoll and/or Morgan are polling. What’s the bet that the Opposition Orifice have created this to help Nelson get a good Morgan result ?
Same here in WA with 6PR – the Breakfast guys have Andrew Bolt on as their “Political Commentator”, which is a bloody joke.
“Same here in WA with 6PR – the Breakfast guys have Andrew Bolt on as their “Political Commentator”, which is a bloody joke.” Here too. Where is the balance? Who do they get on to respond to Bolt? Noone that I can see.
And an even bigger joke is that both 6PR and 3AW are now part of Fairax Media, and the bolter is with the enemy at News Ltd.
643 It’s not so bad, Bolt has taken up a new pastime of self censorship.
http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2008/03/andrew-bolt-clap-loudly-enough-and.html
The only thing of Bolt’s you can agree with is the first sentence: “A little perspective might be in order.”
What an uncouth, nasty piece of trash. Yeah, the text too.
Wouldn’t it be an amazing coincidence if Newspoll brings out a ’special’ newspoll on Monday night to prop up the Sham-I-Am’s weekend work.
Hmm, I wonder if it’s time for the posters in the blogoshere to give an almighty smack over the chops to Bolt, the sham. Albrechston and Piers? You could do it at least 2 ways. Either no one ever buys the paper or clicks on one of their pieces ever again, or you storm them every time they write some hideous crap.
Nah, neither of those things are going to work. Bugger. I don’t know about you lot, but it really, really makes me so angry what the demented rusted on neo-con afficianado shills get paid for.
steve, wouldn’t be surprised at all, but still think the current Gov’t is a good deal smarter than what’s on offer in terms of the Opposition. Just cranky about the MSM, myself.
Have there been any “Phone in polls” on the East Coast on this ? I’m speaking of Barcelona tonight and A Grimshaw Affair.
Oops. Your 555. Not BB, Harry.
Dear me. Do apologise.
Re your 648, only reality will smack them in the chops.
Too bad it is such a long time to budget day.
But not so long to the resumption of Parliament.
Where, I anticipate, the Optional Opposition will find itself smartly smacked.
It’s all part of the fun, Harry. In the Queensland Parliament the opposition rushes in with a question based on whatever story made the headlines in the ‘Curious Snail’ that morning. After about three questions they are redfaced, squirming in their seats and thoroughly embarrassed. They have adopted this as standard practice for years and get the same result every time and never learn. They just don’t understand the ability the government has to gather information to refute their arguments.
Another on cue article from a “Battler”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23339102-5014046,00.html
And here is Brendan 07
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/09/2184251.htm?section=justin
And some Crocodile tears from the libs about changes to political donation laws.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23339073-5014046,00.html
Another cheap shot at Nelson from within the coalition.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23343754-5003402,00.html
At 653
‘She said she had come to rely on the money, which was the only windfall she has received in 10 years of caring for her husband, who suffers from Parkinson’s disease, as well as her 38-year-old intellectually disabled daughter’.
Precisely. Windfall. Depending upon the tree the former Government chose to shake.
Not ongoing. Nothing fixed. Nothing sure.
I cannot wait for the Rudd Government to put in place ongoing certainty.
655 Yes glen delivered those talking points with appropriate gravitas and accompanied by the crocodile tears earlier.
Exactly my point – this “Windfall” is an insult for what carers have to deal with 24/7/52 – they should be getting a meaningfull benefit ALL year round, not $98 per fortnight for the Carers Allowance (don’t know how much Per Fortnight the Carers Payment is) PLUS the “$1600″ bonus – which I might add the majority of carers don’t get, especially those who don’t qualify for the Carers Payment.
I cannot wait for the Rudd Government to put in place ongoing certainty.
Hear Hear.
S’O.K Crickey, I’d figured that out. I’ve just got myself in a total lather tonight. Family gathering for the first time for ages. Good gathering. Can we count the ways in which we hate the the the…. unspeakable Howard believers. Though we think the youngest has only just got it, courtesy of a stint in a mine.
Onya, Steve, ta. You’re quite right.
And speaking of “Special Polls”.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23332284-3102,00.html
661 Frank, what a joke where have these people been hiding for the past twelve years? Funny how what they managed to put on the backburner for twelve years is suddenly a downright necessity.
“Liberal senator Gary Humphries, who was chairman of the committee until the change of government, said he had been “personally swayed” by evidence that the single pension was too far below that of the couples’ payment.
“Personally, I think there was a pretty good case made out during the hearings that there is a problem with the single pension being set at the rate it is at the moment,” he said.
“I think the cost of living as a single person isn’t that much short of the cost that a couple incurs.”
Another Liberal committee member Sue Boyce said the inquiry had heard strong evidence arguing that the single pension, currently set at 60 per cent of the couples’ rate, should be lifted, possibly to 65 per cent.
“I think it’s quite likely that we would recommend an increase,” she said.”
I love this Comment
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23340406-953,00.html
Umm, Welfare to Work anyone ??????
Steve@662:
Totally agree – Howard and his Cronies vilified Pensioners as “Bad Back Merchants” etc and did their upmost kick people of the Disability Support Pension etc, yet all of a sudden, they’ve seen the light and want to help them.
Oh and I’m pretty sure that if you don’t get a Disability Support Pension or child disability allowance, then the person caring for you doesn’t qualify for any payment.
Nothing like a stint at the coalface, Harry.
As also the Opposition are learning.
Pleasing that your family gathering worked.
Interesting Comments from Carers Australia about the last Budget, which included the Carers Bonus.
http://www.carersaustralia.com.au/images/stories/Carers%20extremely%20disappointed%20with%20budget.pdf
Another instance of Brough failing to come up with required cash for carers.
http://www.youngcarersnsw.asn.au/Documents/591_MediaRelease.pdf
I can’t believe that the new gov’t will do anything other that a complete revamp
of the welare system. Why wouldn’t you? It’s currently a dog’s breakfast, with poor if any coordination between the States and the Feds. However, it’s going to be a bonzer do da day of shit fighting, I can tell you. The State Health mob in Vic. are, I can tell you with the immediate experience of having to deal with them, short as 2 short planks. It’s not their political masters who are the problems; it’s those between, who can be either enablers or stoppers. It’s one of those times when I hope the people we’ve elected have enough smarts to bang the right heads together.
Jeez, Crickey, I’m back at the coal face every day. I thought I told you my iffy joke about how when women used to toil over hot stoves back in the old days, but now we sweat over hot relationships. O.k. It ain’t funny.
The ALP Policy Statement, as regards Disabilty and Carers, points exactly to that revamp, Harry.
Have not read, but will, their overall intentions.
The bashing of heads, short as they are, will present a problem.
The unneeded running on the old agenda, as presented by the MSM, is hardly helpful.
It would be so helpful, for once, if they actually got behind real reform.
I meant ‘the youngest’ Harry.
The hidden face of care.
http://www.tocc.org.au/media/Final_TOCC_2007_Report_The_Hidden_Face_of_Care_15_Nov_2007.pdf
steve, 672, that is worthy of a big read, in daylight.
Good reference.
Thanks.
Steve @ 606, what a great read, makes their economic manager credentials look pretty tacky now. It was all spin but a few of us saw through it!
Basil Fawlty, I think that Sham-I-am has accidentally released the second tiger of his illustrious career. The first was by attacking Beasley’s polling figures to ensure Rudd won the Prime Ministership.
Now he has unleashed the categorical and unpalatable truth that the coalition were far from being good economic managers in any sense of the word but a team of incompetents who should never have been allowed to be in government.
On both occasions Sham-I-am thought he was helping the coalition out as he set them up to be smashed.
Why does the term ‘Lambs to the slaughter’ come to mind when I note that the next meeting of parliament is on Tuesday?
onimod @ 454 – Don’t judge us christians on the actions of George W Bush and John W Bush oops Howard. Stating that one is a christian is an easy way of getting votes from a large body of people. To put it another way – do you explicitly trust every thing that JWH says?
I myself am an Anglican and I can tell you now that the Anglican and Catholic churches are an extreeeemely long way from garnering support for Howards policies, but this cannot, of course, be said for all members of those churches. There is a famous saying attrbuted to St Francis that goes something like “I will preach the word of the Lord all of my life and, if necessary, use words”. This is basically a belief that actions speak louder than words.
Tom
What next do you think the press will come out with to scare people re spending cuts. All based on “insiders” accounts. No proof. Then when the government denies it, it is headlined as a backflip or backdown. Create a paper tiger then destroy it. Amazing stuff we are seeing at the moment. The latest being the plastic bags issue.
Milne in the Adelaide Sunday Mail says that “Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has been forced to back down from Budget plans to axe the $500 seniors bonus payment and the $1600 carers’ payment”. Methinks its more likely that Milne is backing down on behalf of his News Ltd colleagues who brought this matter up in the first place.
Gary at 678. I was typing my post (679) and did’nt notice what you had posted but what you wrote encapsulated my thoughts precisely and you put it much more articulately than I did.
680 Enjaybee – thanks for that. I notice Rudd HAS said they are thinking of getting rid of the ex politicians’ gold card. Now I’m waiting for the first ex politician to put his/her head up to have it shot off.
I really think the conservative press are out to help their “boys” seeing that they are being creamed in the public’s mind at the moment. They’re out to make Rudd look bad.
“Brendan’s got the full support of the party room and all of the team, including myself,” Mr Turnbull told the Nine Network today.
the kiss of death.
Gary Bruce
I’m not sure that this disinformation campaign by the Opposition Orifice will help the Lib-Lads at all…in fact I see it backfiring.
It is going to be interesting in Parliament on Tuesday, as Steve has posted…pass the gravy!
678 Gary, looks like it was another one plucked out of the ether on a slow news day.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/garrett-rules-out-plastic-shopping-bag-tax/2008/03/09/1204998257432.html
OK, I know I’m days behind, having left the reading of the blog til Sunday Breakfast, but let me clear up the $1600 bit.
Anyone caring for a disabled adult or child is entitled to the Carer’s Allowance, currently around $100 pf, not means tested. Carers who recieve the Allowance generally get the bonus of $600.
The Carer Payment is income support (pension) for carers who care for people full time. It is both means tested, and time tested – you are allowed 25 hours non-caring time per week (ie you can work or study part time), and some days respite/hospital per year. Carers who receive the Payment get the bonus of $1000.
Now, people who are eligable for the Allowance are not necessarily eligable for the Payment, but those that get the Payment are also entitled to the Allowance. Ergo, Carers on the Carer Payment get a bonus of $1600.
Did I say ‘bonus’? We’ve been calling it ‘the bribe money’ for a while now. While I really hate the fact that the real needs of carers are not addressed, the bribe was very useful for those things we would never other wise have, in my case a wahing machine that doesn’t wake the dead, a fridge that isn’t old enough to be a parent to my children, real dental care. I really resent the fact that we are accused of using for plasma tvs. And the idea that people paying 30% of their income are in rental/mortgage stress! I would like some of that stress. The cheap and nasty place I rent takes half my and my teenage daughter combined pensions.
“#
477
Frank Calabrese Says:
March 7th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
What a trainwreck that Today Tonight Story was – the first woman bought a WASHING MACHINE with her $1000 – I thought the bonus was for day to day stuff for the caree.”
This is exactly the kind of comment that pisses me off! Who’s washing do you think the Carer is doing? In what parallel universe is a washing machine not meeting the day to day needs of the caree?
685 steve – It’s just amazing stuff isn’t it? Report what you like and have the government confirm or deny it. Talk about muck raking fishing expeditions.
Too much more of this nonsense and thy could be putting big advertising dollars at risk. After all the AFR does have a Saturday edition and plenty of other more ethical newspapers could always do business with the Government. Or they could just advertise online.
Frank Calabrese at 659
The Carer payment is the same amount as the disability payment.
From a letter received last week, myself and the person I care for will get $500 each year (paid quarterly $125) as a utility allowance and it is to be permanently. Neither of us were eligible until now. The $1000 and $600 bribe money was only ever a one off, the first one was an election bribe in 2004, the rest were to make themselves look good each time they handed down a budget!!
To make that a bit clearer. We will EACH receive $500 every year. Sorry about that.
And a Minister for Communications who may decide to change the media laws so as to disadvantage Murdoch and Co
Speaking of beatups, read this doozy in the Sunday Crimes.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/comments/0,21590,23342539-2761,00.html
Love this comment from the Sunday Crimes “Editorial”
btw, the Editor is Sam Weir.
All this stuff (rumours, etc) is just what happens to Governments – all of them.
Don’t know why everyone is so much up in arms about it.
It would be nice if there was even a half truth behind them Dyno but they are so far off the planet that it is ludicrous.
Looks like Pies is back on the white powder again.
And this…..
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/so_mr_rudd_wheres_the_cash/
It looks like Pies has been left so far out of the loop, that he is reduced to making up issues to try and appear relevant.
In this regard, he is clearly failing miserably. Time to look for another job, methinks. JA, Bolter, Dennis and a number of others are in the same position. Totally irrevelant and likely to be increasingly ignored if they continue in putting forward trash as ‘informed’ opinion.
But it’s cheap fodder for the clueless and Talkback radio.
And the ABC has been cowered into submission by JA and Windschuttle on the Board, that they also use News Ltd Talking points as legitimate news.
Ahh, Glen’s “Hero” is talking Dirty on IR
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/09/2184315.htm
Just cleared a bunch of comments out of moderation. Apologies for delays.
just been browsing a few news storys. Here’s a couple to make the Libs jealous
By James Grubel
Reuters
Saturday, March 8, 2008; 10:40 PM
CANBERRA (Reuters) – Hong Kong-born action film star Jackie Chan paid tribute to his late parents and his Australian roots on Sunday by funding a new science education centre at the country’s top cancer research institution.
Chan and Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd opened the Jackie Chan Science Centre, at the Australian National University, paid for by Chan’s donations to cancer research in honor of his parents, who were long-time residents in Canberra.
Chan’s parents settled in Canberra in the early 1970s, where his father took a job as the head chef at the United States Embassy before becoming a successful local restaurant owner.
Before his career in film, a young Chan lived in Canberra for a couple of years, attending college and working as builder’s laborer, where he was given his now famous name Jackie as a nickname by fellow workers, who struggled with his Chinese name.
Rudd, who was elected to power in Australia last November, hosted a dinner at his official residence on Saturday for Chan and his family, as well as diplomats from China and the United States.
Rudd, who speaks fluent Mandarin, discussed ways Chan could help Australia strengthen its ties with China, which is now Australia’s biggest trading partner.
Chan, who is an ambassador for the Beijing Olympics, invited Rudd to attend the Olympics later this year, and said he would be available to help Rudd at any time, but he refused say how.
“There’ some secret, I cannot say it,” Chan said. “I’ve known Kevin for a few years. Whenever he calls, I’ll be there.”
From The Age
Before they were famous and influential both lugged bricks in Canberra to feed themselves.
Now, in a surreal moment 30 years on, the worlds of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Jackie Chan collided today.
I think that’s about the 3rd invite he’s got to the games
I wish Kev would slip me one of the invitations he won’t use.
If Pies wants to be taken seriously you’d think he’d at least come up with a plausible scenario, wouldn’t you?
Julia Gillard tipped to be the favourite for Labor leadership over Rudd?
ROTFL.
Lovely, capable, amazing person that she is, Julia would not stand a snowflake’s chance in hellfire over taking over from Rudd, today or tomorrow or next year. Also, she would not want the job with a PM so well-ensconced with the public as Rudd is.
Where in the bejeezus does Pies get his ideas from? ONE person allegedly said Julia would win a leadership spill and he PRINTS IT as gospel?
They clearly have nothing to write about and are suffering from Relevance Deprivation Syndrome.
Funnily enough, the wingnut journos seem to be the ones having the most trouble adjusting to the new reality. Worse than the Libs and Nats and worse than Labor and its fluffed lines, the journos are wallowing in a bygone reality, too stupid or too desperate to notice the world has passed them by.
Like Johnny Rocco from Key Largo they’re fully expecting the old days to come back, better than ever: Prohibition, Howard and Sly Grog, all mixed up into a fantasy world where up is down and left is right, where what they would otherwise have called “dole bludgers” are lauded as heroes deserving of every handout they can muster. But THIS time the Mobs will co-operate… see? No blasting away at each other… see? It’ll be just like the old days… see?
But only in Pie Heaven.
Dyno, back at 695. Some, like me, get cranky when dolts spread rumours that hurt people. There’s no doubt many people who are carers and those on aged pensions would have been distressed by the rubbish being touted as news over the last couple of days. I’m not concerned about the gov’t. They’re perfectly capable of looking after themselves. But you can bet on it that it wouldn’t even occur to the likes of the sham and the rest of them who peddle such crap, that what they were doing was going to hurt people and was unethical.
I know I’ve said it before, but I’lll say it again: Labor will win the next election with a swing in its favour. The Liberals have no idea what is going on. Have a look at the Piers Akerman Forum or the Andrew Bolt Forum. It doesn’t really matter which thread, as they are all the same people saying the same things over and over – a bit like the Howard haters of last year, really – but try “Poll: Costello vs Turnbull for leader” for a starter. They think it’s a media beat up, that the opinion polls are rigged, that Labor has no policies, that Kevin Rudd has – even though he has no policies – broken them already, that the Liberal IR laws were a positive, that the Liberals should ditch their left wing (their what?), etc, etc. Some are still going on about Brian Burke and Kevin Rudd’s childhood. It’s a re-run of the Liberal reaction to Steve Bracks’s 1999 win.
Chris Curtis, I don’t know how you stomach reading that stuff. I had a brief look at what being posted on the sham’s blog when he wrote about the razor gang supposedly taking to the carers payments, and couldn’t proceed past the first page.
694 Frank Calabrese – thanks Frank I’m glad you liked my posting.
Hi Chris Curtis of the 70’s…I actually spent a weekend over at the nuts and Bolt tapestry of the thredulous and I was amazed at the warped perspective!
What really got in my crawdad was the constant wishing that this country will crash and burn and can not wait, so they can themselves, on their collective spineless backs, pat themselves and say “I told you so you idiots!”
Best if they stay there in their little askew liberal creche!
Harry,
I like to keep in touch with the political climate. I even post occasionally, most often when there is an attack on teachers, when I present a few facts. The facts are never challenged – of course, you say – but I do sometimes get a response and other times my facts are left hanging in the air.
One problem that the Victorian Labor Government still has is the survival of Liberal ideology in the public service, which is why the government has not reversed all the bad things done by the Liberals and probably never will now. The leak re the carer’s bonus could have been kite-flying by the government (which suggest its political judgement is very poor) or an attempt by a Liberal bureaucrat to create mischief for the Rudd Government. Who knows?
Ogmios,
The 70s is where my mind is. I think of 1970 as the beginning of the modern era. But then I realise that it was 38 years ago, which is like some old codger telling me in 1970 that 1932 was the beginning of the modern era.
It’s easier to post on a blog than do something about the world. You can type away about the dreadful government and feel superior. Meanwhile, those with the real power are out exercising it. The world is run by those who turn up.
Labor needs a strong opposition, so I hope that the Liberals get their act together and start providing one. At the moment, they are just lost.
Chris Curtis…I’m sure many here are active in pursuing a better nation, I suspect.
The point you raise concerning the weak opposition is a worry to me also.
For a democracy to function at it’s optimum, a strong and vibrant opposition is imperative.
Polyquats
I am making some assumptions here but if you have a disabled child under 21 and rent you are eligable for $862.66 per fortnight. Consisting of carers payment, carers allowance, rent assistance and youth disability supplement. I am assuming the lowest figure for the person being cared for it could be upto $295.10 pf.
Including the $1600 “bonus” this means a tax free income of $24029.16 plus you are still able to work 50 hours per fortnight. So lets say that another $650. making a legit $1512.66 per fortnight or $756.33 per week.
I am not saying this applies to you but it shows there are huge problems with disabilty payments.
Put this into context, a single disabled person who relies on nursing care with a mortgage gets $537.70 per fortnight and dreams of a washing machine.
Chris, I appreciate you’re wanting to keep in touch with the political climate, as do I and have noticed your letters and postings.
The reporting of the supposed cuts to people’s money, just had me so angry, as I think a lot of people have been unnecessarily worried by it. I didn’t think it was something the gov’t would do, as I don’t think they’re either heartless or stupid. I think Rudd is the real deal as I was very impressed that he would, off his own bat and no media in tow, go out during some free time in Melbourne to visit a homeless shelter and hear first hand about it. It seemed likely to me that it was mischief from someone inside the public service.
I’ve also been angry, like others posting here that the ABC mostly just parrots the talking points from the MSM, and I’m heartily sick of the spin they put on it. I think it was Fred who did a tally and quoted a string of reports, providing evidence of same.
The fed. Libs. have serious problems, not least being Nelson is clearly not the leader. Clearly, Downer, Costello, Vaille, Turnbull and Abbott, all think they can do pretty much anything they want, with the usual suspects just waiting to get out. So, no discipline and a leader with no authority. Further, if you read Possum’s piece on the twin power bases, I think he made a pretty compelling argument for their differences being greater than their similarities, and therefore, considerable internal tension. Howard had whatever it was it took to manage this tension, but since he’s gone, no one else comes close to being able to manage it.
Just looked at the figures again, the maximum is $1197.16 pf plus $650 from wages = $48026.16 per annum.
Or $923.58 per week. This would be an unusual amount and the person cared for would need to be between 18-21. When they turned 22 the payment would be less.
Just shows what a dogs breakfast we have in disability support.
ruawake,
A disabled child is an adult at 16. Unlike my able-bodied student child, who will not be an adult until she is 25.
If someone on a carer’s payment earned $650 per fortnight, they would start to lose 40 cents in the dollar for every dollar over about $132.00. You have to be able to find a job with the appropriate hours and flexibility.
The $1600 is a bribe, can’t be guaranteed till the end of the year, cross your fingers and hope for it.
There is often no end in site for many carers. And even if there is, what then for the carer, with no super, no work history.
I am well aware of the situation for the disabled, I care for one. I’m not suggesting that payments for the disabled are OK, or that carers are worse off than other pensioners. I’m appalled at the amounts paid to many others, particularly single pensioners. If your numbers were right, I wouldn’t be complaining. But they are wrong.
Polyquats er wrong.
“For Disability Support Pension, applies if over 21 only”. This is the income test.
My figures are accurate for a theoretical scenario, as I stated the payments would be less when the person cared for turns 22.
Prove me wrong.
Tom 677
I’m certainly not bagging faith full stop – just the place it is assuming in the political process. I’m more than happy with the moral compass of Kevin Rudd, and I know he’ll attribute a lot if not all of it to his faith.
I was mostly just objecting to JWH’s call for it’s increased influence in his speech in Washington.
There’s no doubt about it’s influence in the US and it’s apparently becoming optional to be either educated or Christian. I find it more than a little concerning. Having said that, the leadership and actions of Rudd thus far are enormously encouraging.
ruawake:
Carer’s Allowance: $100.60 pf
Carer’s Payment: $648.90 pf (including rent allowance)
Total Carer’s income: $749.50 pf.
Disability Support Pension 18-21 years, living at home: $334.00 pf
Total Household fortnightly income: $1083.50
Rent: $540 pf, which is about 50% of our income.
In reality, my daughter pays half her pension to me for board and lodgings, the rest goes to meet her own expenses.
It is only my daughter’s pension that is not subject to a means test (ie a test on my income). This is a ‘welfare for the rich’ tweak – disabled children of the stinking rich get to have a non-means tested pension from 16. Doesn’t make much difference to those on average income.
I think you are double counting somewhere. If only I could make $48,000 collecting the pension and working within the means test and time allowed. Perhaps if you can tell me exactly what it is that I am missing out on, I’ll print it out and take it to Centrelink tomorrow to demand the rest of my money.
Heh, I too have commented on Piers & Bolt’s blogs. Piers is a nasty little man, a request by me for some actual figures on evictions of subprime mortgage holders in the US I got a reply implying I was weakminded! Nice! NOT! My posts don’t seem to appear anymore.
Some of the neanderthals that post there obviously only read Piers or whomever. How else could numerous posters there keep crapping on about more and more people losing faith in Rudd/ALP??? hello? Rudd 70% PPM???
Polyquats
I am not saying you do not deserve every cent you get, but you obviously get more “test on my income” so you have an income above the $541.75 per week you get tax free. ( I will ignore the $1600 bribe).
Compare this to many others and stop complaining. Imagine if you were a person who had a $150,000 mortgage and were single. You suddenly get a diagnosis of a life changing illness. Payments of $330 per week, income of $268.85. Why should renters alone get help?
Our whole system of disability/welfare payments is stuffed. That is the point I am trying to make.
I wonder if Polyquats is one of these “Carers” who have been parroting the Opposition Orifice’s Talking points ?
Oh and before you attack me again, I am a disability pensioner plus I have 2 sisters who have special needs children – one of my sisters has 2 , one with Autism, and one with Downs Syndrome, plus another sister who has a 21 yr old with Cerebal Palsy.
Note the sister who has 2 children only qualifies for the Carers Allowance of $98.00 per fortnight for I’m assuming each child.
I totally and utterly agree.
You will love this little pension rort.
Recipients of the Blind Pension can get it income and asset test free.
Which means you can be a multi-billionaire with a full time job and still get a pension which allows you amongst other things free public transport.
When Howard first introduced Welfare to Work, the Blind pension was included – public outcry by Vision Australia saw Howard grant them an exemption.
The merger debate has caused friction between Nelson and Pyne.
“A Coalition frontbencher has disagreed strongly with Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson over a possible merger of the Liberal and National parties.
Dr Nelson says that he strongly supports the parties amalgamating at some point in the future, if it has the support of party members.
But Opposition justice spokesman Christopher Pyne has told Sky television the Nationals and the Liberal Party are too dissimilar for a merger to work.
“They make no pretence about holding together any Liberal philosophical strain within their party,” he said.”
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080309/21/16382.html
Yep, all is fine at LNP Central. Still think the Possum proposition about the distantly related twin support bases is a pretty good one.
If the folk at Labor Central are in fact having a good hard long look at Disabilitiy and Aged pensions and associated entitlements, they’ll do it properly, if it’s the pollies who are driving it. Again from my experience, it’s often the State based bureaucrats, (apart from my son who’s a paragon!) who are the problem.
But HSO @ 705,
Did you get equally upset when people peddled lies about the previous Govt doing nasty things?
Dyno I got upset when they were accused of being ‘good economic managers’, ‘friends of workers’, ‘compassionate conservatives’ etc. I have never believed these rumors to be true for a second.
Polyquats at 715
”A disabled child is an adult at 16. Unlike my able-bodied student child, who will not be an adult until she is 25′.
Whilst I am not equipped to argue Polyqat’s personal case on disabilty, I reiterate.
Yet another weird, convulsive twist, introduced by the Howard Government.
On what grounds could a person be a dependent up to the age of 25?
This nonsense was connected in someway with Austudy and Newstart. Living away from home allowances and qualification therefore. The kiddies running away from home. Heavens, forbid that some would wish to escape a situation.
The rule specifically intended a parent to bear the cost of their adult child’s education, by which I mean a person over the age of 18.
Must keep the kids at home. I know, punish the parents. The whole thing typifies the Howard approach. Solve a contemporary issue by hammering the parents and kids into financial submission.
It specifically was and it remains, directed at the less financially able.
But aimed at pleasing the voters who think the moral, social and physical objective has been solved.
As usual, under Howard, it is based not on reality, but political twists and turns.
Wedge politics.
Again, Kev, on with it.
721
Frank Calabrese Says:
March 9th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I wonder if Polyquats is one of these “Carers” who have been parroting the Opposition Orifice’s Talking points ?
Certainly not!
I just take exception to the ‘creative accounting’ being used by some on this discussion. Yes, the disability support system is broken – but spare me the line that ‘carers shouldn’t complain because the disabled are worse off’ or ‘renters shouldn’t complain because people with a mortgage are worse off’ or ‘couples shouldn’t complain because singles are worse off’, or – God forbid – ‘you can afford to spend the bribe on a washing machine, what luxury’ – bullshit. We are all in this together. After all, every carer is a carer of a person with a disability or major illness. So how about some creative ideas to fix the bloody system, instead of whinging at carers.
Such callousness from the left. Is this the new face of socialism in Government? Or just the inteligencia trying to feel relevant – hey wait a minute, that was an OO talking point. What have you driven me to?
Okay, Polyquats 728. Get on with it.
Have a look at the ALP policy on Disability and Carers. I have posted the link above. Ask yourself and them if they are adhering to the policy.
Lobby your local MP, Kevin, whomever.
Go for it!
You clearly have an opinion, make it heard beyond this thread.
We are on your side.
This from that rag, The Daily Telegraph, “Labor brawl over plastic bag tax” The problem for them is that Iemma and garrett are in fact on the same page with this. For heaven sake who are their reporters? Don’t they gather facts first or are they just in the habit of making it up as they go along?
Dyno at 725. Upset about lies peddled about the former gov’t? There was too much that was real they did to upset me.
Child care payment changes.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/childcare-bonanza-for-top-earners/2008/03/09/1204998312242.html
And here comes another beat up courtesy of Malcom Farr based on a Budget submission from the Motoring Lobby.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23348401-948,00.html
Peter Costello. ABC 7.30 report 23/10/2007.
“PETER COSTELLO: Well in fact we did. We gave a pension bonus of $500 in June of this year and we gave a carers payment bonus of $1,000. In fact we did Kerry, we did return to carers and pensioners. Now going forward, what we’re saying is we will now permanently build in that $500 for pensioners, for self-funded retirees and for those on the carer’s payment and indeed in addition to that, those on the disability support pension. So what we did in the past is we declared a bonus and we paid a bonus, what we’re going to do in the future is we are going to build that in so it will be an annual entitlement and this is the way of distributing the proceeds of a strong economy to pensioners, to those on the disability pension and to carers.”
Read the weasel words – The Coalition policy was to dump the payments. In black and white.
More astute commentators heard this at the time – others were duped.
and Brendon 07 Is STILL carrying on over “Bonusgate”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/10/2185144.htm
Good old Shrek.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/10/2184814.htm?section=justin
It is becoming amusing to see the State Libs tripping over themselves to try to get former Ministers to overcome their perceived problems. Brough in Queensland, Downer in SA and now Hockey for NSW.
On the National level a lot of their problems are documented here.
http://thepipingshrike.blogspot.com/2008/03/realignment-not-honeymoon.html
At a Brisbane City Council level here. Some of the Newman clips are quite comical.
http://www.newmanfacts.com/
You forgot to add Bishop in WA
Ohand the WA Nats aren’t too impressed about merging with the Libs, in ffact here they are running 100 miles AWAY from them and standing candidates in all rural seats making them 3 way contests.
Frank, it is the Nationals Opposition Leader Springborg who is driving the agenda in Qld but so far it hasn’t had any more success than in the west and getting the Libs in Qld to agree to anything is near impossible as I am sure Nelson will find Federally.
Go Kevvie
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23349940-5005361,00.html
“When it comes to the bonuses system, carers and pensioners will not be any worse off under the budget,” – Kevin Rudd.
“When it comes to the bonuses system, carers and pensioners will not be any worse off under the budget,” – Kevin Rudd.
and he said it here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/10/2185354.htm?section=justin
Obviously that won’t satisfy Shemaham, the Liberals REAL Puppet Master
ruawake, do you happen to have a direct link to that quote?
Just found this funny piece of work, too.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23348421-5007146,00.html
Thanks Frank
These mongrels just won’t let up. What more do they want Rudd to do, present the budget now? Aren’t his reassurances good enough? Do they believe they’re still dealing with Howard and can’t believe a word he says?
At least the problems with the Liberal leadership, for want of a better word, and the merger controversy are keeping the sharks busy.
And we have a Today Show/NineMSN Poll with appropriate tugging at the heartstrings video,
http://today.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=389330
And click on the link and it leads to…..
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23335528-5001021,00.html
The Daily Terrorgraph.
748 Frank – and the scaremongering goes on. Of course you realise that no matter what the government does from here on in this matter it will be considered a “backflip”, “backdown” or a “cave in”. Just bloody dirty politics, that’s what it is.
And from the bastions of the conservative press – “The OO” and “The Daily Terror”.
Poor today show “400,000 carers receive the $1600 bonus” ooops thats $640 million, budget figures show it was $225 million. Only wrong by $415 million.
Ah well they are only out by the amount it cost to upgrade the immigration depts. computer system.
Frank, I am disappointed in the tory organisational skills. I was waiting for you to tell us that if I clicked on the link of ‘The Daily Terrorgraph’ it would link directly to Turnbull’s office.
And how many of those get both the Carers Payment AND the Allowance. The Magic $1600 is only for those lucky buggers, most carers only get the Allowance.
We all know these fibs and scare mongering (they’re comimg back, they’re coming back!! oh hang on wrong scare!) is News ltd desperate attempt to lift Brenden 07’s and the libs polls numbers.
It may well work short term ,like the next couple of months, but after the budget when people realise they have been taken as fools and lied to Brenden and his bros will be wiped off the map.
While some journalist get worse some are out there doing good work;
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/opinion/at-last-we-take-a-stand-against-the-dark-side/2008/03/09/1204998316530.html
I managed to find the Libs policy for the last election (via http://www.archive.org) it is no longer on their website.
They said something along the line of we will look at the bonuses depending on economic circumstances.
What Costello meant was we will replace the bonuses with the $500 utilities allowance. (Given that some pensioners already got about $120 it was not really $500 for all).
The policy also confirms that this $500 was per family and his interview on the 7.30 report confirms that the bonuses were in the past.
So the Libs went to the last election with a policy to cut carers payments. Yet in mean and tricky style they spun it as an increase.
Will a journalist ask Dr. Nelson :
Did the coalition commit to definately retaining the carer bonuses?
Was the coalition policy taken to the last election a cut in carer payments?
Probably not.
I note PollyQ hasn’t been here since last night – it seems that she preferred News Ltd’s talking points to our own, often real life experiences.
And has anyone notice the absence of Glen and the other Conservatives ? Has all this talk of mergers sent them scurrying to be “re-educated” ?
ruawake, just happened to stumble across a copy of the Liberal Party Policy document from the 2007 election regarding carers myself.
http://www.liberal.org.au/about/documents/Carers.pdf
Thanks steve – thats the one.
A re-elected Coalition Government will extend, for the first time, the
Utilities Allowance to all recipients of Carer Payment.
Currently only recipients of Carer Payment who are of Age Pension
age receive this payment. The Utilities Allowance will be $500 a year
for a single and $500 a year for a couple from 20 March 2008.
More than 120,000 Carer Payment recipients will receive this payment
for the first time from 20 March 2008 through the Coalition’s investment
of $183 million over four years. This will be subject to the passage of
legislation.
This measure builds on the Coalition’s strong record of providing
financial encouragement and recognition to Australia’s carers.
In 2007 the Coalition delivered a $1,000 bonus for recipients of the
Carer Payment and $600 for recipients of Carer Allowance. One-off
bonus payments were also made to eligible carers in 2004, 2005 and
2006.
A re-elected Coalition Government will consider continuing to
pay these bonuses, depending on the economic circumstances at the time.
The defence rests
“In 2007 the Coalition delivered a $1,000 bonus for recipients of the
Carer Payment and $600 for recipients of Carer Allowance. One-off
bonus payments were also made to eligible carers in 2004, 2005 and
2006. A re-elected Coalition Government will consider continuing to
pay these bonuses, depending on the economic circumstances at the
time.”
Pdf page seven
7 and 9 news both put a favorable light on Rudd telling carers and pensioners they wouldn’t be worse off after the budget. 9 even had old footage of Kev in a nursing home holding an elderly lady’s hand.
761 vera – Those at the OO still don’t believe it though. They are desperate to keep it running.
“Samantha Maiden, Online political editor – March 10, 2008
KEVIN Rudd has today pledged pensioners and carers will not be worse off under the May budget.
But the Prime Minister has not ruled out dumping the one-off payments that sparked controversy last week among pensioners and carers who fear the cash handouts could fall victim to the budget razor gang.”
Well dug out, Steve. Perhaps, Glen, Generic Person and ESJ are out trying to find someone who prefers the nightwatchman as PM? Maybe, it’s finally sinking in with some in the MSM, that the gov’t has changed and the country certainly will change. Phew!
Samantha Maiden excluded.
And the entire News Ltd “Journalistic Staff”
I’d go with that, Frank.
Oh and The West Australian in Perth – I hope Kerry Stokes gains control of the Board and sacks that Young Liberal of an Editor
Bonus schemes should be scrapped, they are pure pork barrelling, and instead the pension and carers allowance increased.
Labors’ stupid promises in the campaign regarding middle class welfare are becoming an immense burden. They should be cutting the benefits provided regarding private subsidies on health insurance and to rich private schools, but instead again it seems vulnerable groups may come under the spotlight or if not rumours occur harming Labors’ support.
Why would you care about Labor’s support being harmed in any way? You appear to be opposed to just about everything that Labor represents. I’m still not sure why you haven’t joined the Young Socialists Movement. I’m sure that their agenda would be more to your liking – seriously.
Or the Socialist Alliance or even the Communist Party.
Marky Marky
Yep. I’ll just wait and see the budget in May before I offer an opinion.
Steve, enjoyed the link.
marky marky, I suspect the stupid promises in the campaign will be subtly re-worked. I noticed that Rudd flagged a re-jigging of the support system (hate the word welfare) for people who may be aged or have different needs.
I agree bonus schemes should be scrapped and instead, people needing financial support, should have an indexed system to ensure they get what they need.
I also suspect this will take some time to sort through.
The current system is an absolute mess. It’s not something I’ve any expertise in particularly, so can’t comment further. I’ll get onto the Australian Association of Social Workers to get a submission together.
I’ll say it again, though, often when you’re trying to organise something that some one’s rightfully entitled to, you have to battle bureaucratic idiots who’ve got absolutely no idea. Recently, I had a year long battle with the State Housing mob, who didn’t understand that global developmental delay was one of the criteria for emergency housing and that it wasn’t curable. Won, though.
You gotta love the Terrorgraph.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23350923-5001028,00.html
So Steve you agree with taxpayers money going to the wealthy? Yep the poor pays for private health subsidies and rich schools such as Wesley, Scotch and Kings College.
Steve you are typical of the new type of Labor member, give up on what you really believe. Brainwashed. Countries in Scandinavia can create societies and communities which provide for decency and equalitarian service delivery- they of course are socialists regimes.
And you people have forgotten what socialism is. What is it again? Is their something wrong with equality. In education, health, employment, oh no cannot have that better to have the wealthy get their big wage increases- CEO wages have increased significantly in recent years. Better to let the wealthy own all the resources in this country whilst the poor gets nothing. Ever seen the statistic Steve that the about 100 people in this country own about 80 per cent of our wealth whilst the rest 20 per cent , and it has got worst under both governments Labor and Liberal.
But that is alright.
Frank, what is the difference between Socialism and Communism? I despise communism completely and would never support it.
I am a socialist because i care about all people and despise greed and that is what kind of country we are living in.
Labor continues to apply bandaid solutions last week housing and today binge drinking. What a waste of our taxes.
Binge drinking, how about making the alcohol companies pay for this instead of us taxpayers.
I have checked the Costello’s transcripts since 2004, he did 741 interviews and mentioned in passing carers 3 times.
This omits his 7.30 report interview (23/10/2007) so to be fair it is 4 out of 742. To his credit the 3 reported by the treasurers website were all Alan Jones, but the Tip never answered a question.
I reckon that the missing member for higgins was never in favour of the “bonuses” he was rolled by the former member for benelong.
Steve, Ogmios works for the Labor Party ( i think). He provides objective analysis on the policies of the Labor Party. That is to stop people on this site having a opinion which questions the conventional orthodoxy.
Labor was once a party which was concerned about where this country was heading, it had vision. Today it has little vision and is concerned primarily with spin and doing what the media moguls want.
The upcoming summit- is an idea to divert peoples’ opinions from the real issues. The summit has real Australians on its summit such as a member of News Limiteds’ board on its main table. These are the people who will bring forward a vision- bollocks.
Steve says
Yes the conservatives do not stand for anything.
But please explain to me what the Labor Party stands for.
Democratic socialism is what Rudd said, if that is the case then sorry the policies being put in place mean democratic capitalism.
762 Gary – I doubt there would be too many that read the OO whereas most people watch the 7 or 9 6pm news
I know what you’re saying however but just remember the lies and crap OO sprouted all the way through the election campaign and it didn’t do them or howard any good.
But remember that it’s the entire News Ltd stable involved in this charade- The Terror in Sydney, THe Hun in Melbourne, THe Curious Snail in Brisvegas, the Tiser and the Sunday Crimes here in Perth.
All of those people are aimed at Joe Sixpack, who is either caring for someone, or knows a carer.
No 777
Not too long ago, the ALP failed to enunciate what it stood for as well. Then Kevin Rudd came along and proclaimed the ALP stood for 90% of John Howard’s policies.
777 Can’t help you there Marky Marky, I am not a member of any political party. I just dislike living under conservative governments and range across a broad political spectrum but have never voted right of Labor and never intend to do so. I do not like what the Liberal, National or One Nation, Family First etc stand for now, in the past or in the future.
I am interested in why people vote the way they do and what people do to get people to vote for them or not as the case may be. I am also a keen student of the parliamentary process with all it’s strengths and weaknesses.
I have no trouble with people questioning the conventional orthodoxy. I have been known to do so myself and have been arrested numerous times and jailed under the street march laws of Bjelke Petersen.
I’ve seen both sides come and go on many levels but I’m still here doing what I enjoy, no matter what a party stands for.
780 [Not too long ago, the ALP failed to enunciate what it stood for as well. Then Kevin Rudd came along and proclaimed the ALP stood for 90% of John Howard’s policies.
]
And if you expect us to believe a word of that GP then you will be very happy and quiet for a long time, won’t you GP?
Generic person,
Please list all of John Howard’s policies and tell us which of these Labor has supported too so we can see the 90 per cent.
just watching the Lateline report about the Aboriginal group kicked out of the resort in N.T.
It’s heartbreaking. just so sad.
I will reverse the question Chris, which policies does Labor not agree with which were John Howards’?
780 Generic – by golly the electorate sure hated that 10% though didn’t they GP?
It is interesting how politics works, last week the Agriculture Minister Mr Burke went to town on Mark Vaile for having another job whilst in poltics, then surprisingly enough he went mute because the hypocrite was found out- he to did the same thing.
The electorate voted Labor because and i agree this country is a conservative country, people here are basically stupid and ignorant. The media also helped Rudd a little hence went a little soft on him.
People here wanted us to support Kyoto’ s signing and doing something about it but i bet if policies were brought in which affected peoples’ greedy lifestyles they would hate the government.
People here don’t do much thinking they either go we the flow or change according to a its time factor and this is what happened last year, policies meant little. Workchoices helped a little but frankly the media moguls became satisfied with labors’ workplace changes because in the main awa’s will not change for a number of years.
What we need is a media which is not an arm of big corporations, this would make it much easier to educate and introduce responsible and humane policies.
788 marky marky – if you dislike Labor’s policies that much why are you still a member? For heaven sake there must be a party more suited to your views, Labor certainly aint it. I know we’ve discussed this before but I really get the impression you’d rather see a conservative government in power than a Labor government that doesn’t do what you want it to do. Am I right?
If the Brisbane City Council elections are won on brand recognition, then Can Do Campbell will win it in a canter this weekend. Labor has been asleep at the wheel in this campaign. Most punters wouldn’t even know who their Mayoral candidate is.
He’s displaying the traits of a typical Socialist alliance member who’s stuck in the Cold War, or even is a closet member of the DLP.
The meaning of democracy is to have a say and try to change it Gary and that is what i am doing- simple.
Steve, you and many others rarely utter a word of criticism against Labor or actually i am yet to read a word of criticism, so obviously you get on here and either keep your thoughts to yourself, don’t believe in anything or are closet Labor supporters but deny it.
Joining another party hmm… i like to stay put and try to change from within.. and don’t forget i also am critical of the conservatives but at the moment they are not in government anywhere so it is best to question people making the decisions or nothing decisions.
Gary what opiniions do you have which are different to the Governments’ because yet i have not seen any.
Ferny Grover, I’m surprised they haven’t given Gridlock Campbell a hammering over the last month. They have enough on him but just refused to go for the jugular until time has run out. Especially with Standard and Poors threatening to cut his rating because of his huge debt and rates going up astronomically more than he promised.
Say it again Frank what is difference between Socialism and Communism? DLP what next… Yee support their catholic ethos to a tee..
Also Frank if the scandanivan countries can showcase to the world that socialism can work economically why can’t Australia but of course you are into having a society of wealthy ceos’, media moguls who run it for you and politicians do spend more time talking and doing nothing about our entrenched social, environmental and economic problems. Frank you make laugh.
Marky Marky ever heard of a couple of important principles like solidarity, unity, or joint interest. The Tories have enough people on their side without me joining them or speaking for them. Have your say by all means but the criticism of others allegedly on your own side while you do it is dysfunctional stuff. See how the Liberals are operating under Nelson as an excellent lesson in how not to behave politically.
Steve i thought you said earlier
I have no trouble with people questioning the conventional orthodoxy. I have been known to do so myself and have been arrested numerous times and jailed under the street march laws of Bjelke Petersen.
Steve being a member of a party is about questioning also and having a say and trying to change what is occurring. If you think everyone should be united than you would get no where in the decision making process. Everyone has different views on things and i am expressing my own.
Nelsons’ problem at the moment is not about party bickering because i don’t think their is any. It is about perception, honeymoon for Rudd, and Nelsons’ own personality lack of it and his pathetically poor effort when he was a Minister for Defence. He has bungled on Stolen Generations but that was his own fault.
His party seems to be behind him but the media do not.
Personally i think he is not a leader.
Finally i respect everyone’s views on here but i will continue to express my own- this united stuff means nothing , you argue and argue flesh a view and then come to a compromise that is how politics and policies are made mate.
I am just crying.
796 [If you think everyone should be united than you would get no where in the decision making process. Everyone has different views on things and i am expressing my own.]
There’s your way of expressing a view and as many other ways as there are people on this blog. Just express your opinion and leave it at that, few things are right or wrong and it all comes out in the wash anyway.
Anyway what decisions of any great importance are going to made on a public blog like this? I think you are having a lend of yourself.
If you are going to make decisions that will change the country, marky marky, try Federal cabinet or the board room of a top one hundred company. Somehow Poll bludger, fun that it is won’t be changing the world any time soon.
“Gary what opiniions do you have which are different to the Governments’ because yet i have not seen any.” So Marky because you express an opposing opinion to the party YOU (not me) are in and I don’t, because I recognise political compromise is necessary, this some how makes you a better person? I’m not sure why you insist that people should argue against a government when they don’t disagree with what they’re doing and how that makes you better because you do.
It seems Marky Marky wants to emulate his namesake, and we all know what happened in the 2004 Election, Howard had a bigger Majority AND Control of the Senate, and we all know whatt happened next
I’m afraid I just can’t see the value in adopting policies that will clearly see you thrown out of office after one term. We know the electorate rejects radical left or right ideas. Hell, the last election was the latest example of this. This is one political reality no party wanting to remain in power can buck.
802:
Totally agree, Lathams Private School hitlist and Medicare Gold are two such examples, ensured Howard got back in, and enabled them to scare the shit out of parents who send their kids to non-govt schools, the majority believe it or not would be traditional ALP Voters.
The SMH – “Kevin Rudd promises carers won’t be left short by the abolition of their one-off bonus payments.” This sentence can be taken to mean two things – for the government, one good and one bad. I’m sure they knew this when they wrote it.
803 Frank – It’s ok to say you’re in a party to influence their policies but to do so without taking into account the electorate your dealing with is folly.
Leme guess, the SMH have just written the perfect “Question Without Notice” for Nelson to use tomorrow.
Totally agree, hence why The Greens or single issue parties never have wide electoral success.
A Labor source said yesterday the Government had never planned to take money from pensioners or carers.
Instead, it always intended to incorporate the payments into the budget, possibly as an increased payment or allowance that pensioners and carers already received, to provide greater surety. The Howard Government habitually doled out the bonuses annually to spend some of the huge budget surpluses being accumulated.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pm-vows-to-care-for-carers/2008/03/10/1205125819844.html
As discussed earlier, Frank.
Ceased crying, momentarily.
I’ve always maintained that would be the case, but of course the Opposition Orifice would’ve been told that, but chose not to mention it, and thus engineer the scare campaign that rudd doesn’t care about cripples and oldies – which is crap considering Therese ran an employment agency specialising this area.
Another one of Howard’s Pet Project’s to be dumped.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23353732-5013946,00.html
Watch Brendan 07 become Brendan -07
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23353713-5014046,00.html
In the OO – “The budget changes in education come as Kevin Rudd CAVED IN to an angry backlash from carers and seniors to guarantee they would not be worse off after his Government’s 2008-09 budget in May.” As I said earlier, they create the paper tiger then start knocking it down. The truth is the government never intended to for the carers and pensioners to be worse off in the first place. The OO will say and do anything to embarrass the government whether factual or not.
Howard still doesn’t get it. Now he’s defending his decision to not say sorry:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/11/2186318.htm
We can see now why he didn’t attend Day One of the new parliament.
This person (I’ll refrain from using other descriptors) is becoming more and more isolated as each day passes. Backrupt of ideas and morally busted.
so much for bipartisanship
The feeble opposition are going to block government moves to reinstate entry permits for Northern Territory Aboriginal communities
Marky marky,
Labor did not support John Howard’s policies on Iraq, climate change, IR, tax cuts for very high income earners, the Sorry, non-investment in alternative transport technoloy, support for first home-buyers, family tax benefit B, literacy vouchers, tax deductible/rebateable school fees, entry permits, CDEP. in addition, it produced a lot of policies of its own which John Howard failed to me-too, suchas trade training centres and computer access for every year 9-12 studnet.
The Liberal policies that the ALP accepted do not amount to the 90 per cent that Generic Person claimed in a throwaway line.
I do not see any reason for ALP members not to criticise their party when they disagree with it, but surely if the level of disagreement is as great as yours, you must ask yourself why you remain a member. Do you not think that you have more in common with the Greens?
This might be slightly off track but Adelaide metro hit its record (since recording quite some time ago) heat wave today with the 9th straight day over 35 Celsius and looking like getting to Sunday at least on the same track.
Where is Kevin’s Heaven Opening when we need it.
Maybe if Nicole had won Boothby it would be raining by now.
I see Brendan is trying to shore up his leadership this afternoon. Boy, these Libs stand a good show of having egg all over their collective faces come the budget.
We don’t need to wait for the budget Gary:
PM signals pay boost to carers
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23357461-601,00.html
Not only will carers not be worse off – they will probably be even better off and have it locked in instead paid as a bribe.
Steve K,
But don’t you love how the Opposition Orifice have spun it so it causes pressure on the budget ?
Bunch of hypocrites.
The only thread left for Nelson and Abbott to run on in the censure debate was that they were demanding a lumpsum payout.
Nelson was soooo embarrassing in QT, shrieking like a harridan! Kev’s remark about “the party of newly found compassion opposite” was pure gold, was it PK who liked to “do em slowly”
If the Libs had actually increased the pension by $61.50 per fortnight 4 years ago instead of the one off payment, carers would be ~ $425 a year better off by now.(Including the bribes).
That was the reason for all these one off bonuses, keep the base low (the ones that increase every 6 months).
What a slimy bunch we just voted out.
I note that Nine’s 4.30 news were parroting the OO’s talking points regarding retaining the lump sum payment.
Remember, this is the same network who in cahoots with the TErrorgraph and their “Petition”.
From the ABC Comments on the unsucessful Censure Motion.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/11/2186663.htm
Ahh, another quality Opposition Orifice “blog post”
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/samanthamaiden/index.php/theaustralian/comments/carers_shape_as_governments_first_bungle
826 Frank – wishful thinking by the OO Frank.
I note on the 7.30 report that Rudd quoted the Liberal Party Policy Document posted here last night
I yearn so for a new thread. Say, Parliament. Say, reviling Kev. Say current events.
828 Yes Rudd extensively quoted from ruawake’s find in QT and during the censure motion. He also quotes Costello’s words from the 2004 budget which were posted here on Friday night I think.
hmm
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23357937-12377,00.html
No doubt at all that the entries on this blog were similar to Kev’s quotes, in Parliament.
Which may mean they are reading this or researching of their own accord.
Whatever they are doing, reading the contributions here may be helpful.
Howard, who cares less of course, should note.
Yep, indeed it was the magic quote about the future of the bonus
Wouldn’t get too enthusiastic about how important we are. The memes get worked anyway.
Penny Wong on LL re Kyoto.
New federal politics thread open for business.