Conservative pundit Andrew Bolt has shut up shop on his prolific Herald Sun blogging activities with a cryptic “announcement from the seat of Higgins”:
Stephen Mayne has been onto this story for a while, and for once he’s close to the truth (from the linked article, written in 2006: “Maybe Bolt’s main chance will be in Higgins if Costello ultimately decided to spit the dummy and walk”). Given that I’m told he’s planning to write about this again, probably as soon as this morning, I want to say something here first before he does. This is it for the blog, at least for now. I can’t pre-empt the announcement that my local member and friend, Peter Costello, is about to make, but it would clearly be a conflict of interest for me to continue to write about politics here if I’ve privately agreed to become a player.
An April Fools’ Day joke would, of course, be highly out of character.
UPDATE: On the stroke of noon, Bolt reveals himself to be more fond of a jape than I had realised. He is however Still Not Sorry, at least with respect to me (see the third update on his post).
Other news: The chances of a rematch in McEwen have surely been greatly boosted by the disclosure that eight people in the electorate voted twice, although the case does not return to the Federal Court until May. And for those whose interest runs in that direction, Antony Green offers a post on contentious changes to electoral legislation in the ACT, which will make like difficult for independents wishing to run group tickets.
360 Comments
Awesome! With their dreadful performances in parliament recently, he’ll be just the man the Libs need to help them give the place the proper respect.
And wait until Question Time when his columns will come back to haunt him
I thought Bolt was one big April Fools Day joke that just went on for decades. Looks like he’s setting us up for more decades of his ludicrous nonsense.
Our only hope is that the voters of Higgins might not be as dumb as the prospective candidate and might send him back to his poorly read conservative blog. Then April the first and fools would be in their rightful places.
It will be an April fools joke. If it isn’t then the Liberals are 364 day fools, and they are not that silly.
Has anyone had a look at the sycophantic morons posting their comments on his so called news, they are so pathetic. Must be the same people who call talk-back radio and vote in Sky polls
Meanwhile the ‘Nelson listening tour’ has rolled into Brisbane just on the day when the next tear is due in the Queensland Liberal facade. Impressive timing indeed.
“State Liberal MP Steve Dickson has, meanwhile, set a deadline of lunchtime today to quit the party unless a proposed merger with the Nationals is put to rank-and-file party members for a vote.
Mr Dickson refused to say if quitting the party would mean signing up for the Nationals or becoming an Independent until Nationals leader Lawrence Springborg’s merged party was ready.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23463893-3102,00.html
Nothing too awful about this for the Labor side.
You could be tempted to say that Bolt is just doing what Maxine McKew and Mike Bailey from the ABC did. Except they weren’t overtly opinionated in their roles as ABC journalists, where Bolt is all opinion and opinionation. In fact wasn’t one of the complaints about their candidacies that McKew and Bailey were secret lovers of Labor all along, and my how they fooled us?
At least the Bolta is up-front. It’s not like he fooled anyone into thinking he was balanced.
Then, of course, there’s the good news that Costello might be moving on. That’s a bonus all to itself.
Think about it: the Insiders late last year, just post-APEC. Andrew Bolt, journalist, claiming that – literally – by the end of the day Howard, Prime Minister, might be tipped out of his position by Costello, Treasurer.
Now Howard and Costello are gone (or going) forever, there’s a new government, and all the Libs have left is a Bolt to screw into the empty void they left behind them. Rudd still won’t go on Insiders, and Pies still thinks he’s relevant.
Can anyone see the amusing side to this?
As in: Rats…sinking…ships?
Bushfire,
I don’t think anyone’s going to get too excited about Bolt as a candidate (and my betting is on it being an April Fool’s joke at this stage).
However I think you hit the nail on the head with your point about McKew pretending to be unbiased, whereas Bolt has always been pretty up-front about where his political sympathies lie. (Still, it’s a free country, so I can’t get too worked up about McKew’s career path).
As for the weather man, well I can’t remember too much political content in his previous media work!
Generally on media bias though, I think many of the Rudd supporters on here are over-reacting a bit. The media want politics to be some kind of contest, otherwise their role becomes (more) irrelevant. Hence the desire to boost the losing side. And stories about Rudd being good/ok won’t sell papers, whereas stories about “government rip-offs” (real or imagined) might. That’s just life, and I can’t think of a government that didn’t have to deal with it.
My advice to Labor supporters would be this: enjoy it while it lasts. These pin-pricks from the media are surely trivial. Politics can get no better than having your own party in power everywhere – and TPP polls in the 60s.
Wasn’t a newspoll due out today??
Dyno,
Nail on the head. The best revenge is to enjoy the schadenfreude.
As for the weather man, well I can’t remember too much political content in his previous media work!
I think it was the way he emphasised how the highs rotate to the left (anticlockwise).
So far about the only criticism I have of the government is that they are too easily spooked by the media hunting in pacts as in the ‘carers’ beatup, and now increasingly over Japan. They need to toughen up, ignore it, and stick to their agenda, especially this early in the term and with 60+% approval ratings. No doubt they will as they gain more experience and the slings and arrows thicken collective hides.
Must be a joke.
Dyno,
I don’t think McKew was pretening to be unbiased. I think she was unbiased.
There’s a difference between showing bias and holding an opinion. She may have had her own opinions on politics. In fact she clearly did. But as to showing bias, I think she didn’t.
She was very professional and, as far as I can see, exhibited no political preference in her professional life.
I worked at the ABC. Agree with Bushfire Bill – Maxine was unbiased – critique and independent thought are a different thing
Its a true double standard of the media – often people who are left leaning are bending over backwards to be fair – when it comes to very right/far right the same respect is never shown – Unfortunately, alot of people do not get what is a very well know double standard – cause everyone in the media knows this double standard
The real April Fools joke would be if anyone in the Liberal party thinks that someone as arrogant and single minded as Bolt could change their public image. It would only confirm that their chief’s still haven’t learnt anything since the election.
As for Queensland, will they have a netball team or seven dwarfs after lunch?
It is probably a joke, but the Libs could use some high profile candidates i mean it worked for the ALP why shouldnt it work for the Libs?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Harold Holt
John Gorton
Roger Shipton
Peter Costello
Andrew Bolt – Ha ha ha
Even it is not an April Fools joke he would never get preselected let alone win.
A couple of Murdoch Meejah links worth checking. One says Cossie’s not leaving for a few months, the other has Nelson putting pressure on him to quit now.
Cossie is due to address his local electorate on Thursday, maybe Bolt is just helping put pressure on him?
On AW this morning Andrew said that all will become clear at 12 midday. An April fools joke indeed.
I’m calling bullsh*t on this …
1. Why would Costello, after a career in which he fell just short of the top job in Australian politics, allow his retirement announcement to be made on April Foolds day?
2. Why would Andrew Bolt, on his own blog site, state that a competitor had got anything right? Wouldn’t Bolt be MORE likely to lampoon Mayne by making his story the subject of a gag?
3. Also, why would Bolter, if he was serious about running as a candidate in Higgins, allow that announcement to be made on April Fools day.
No. There are too many ways that this is weird. I predict a “Ha ha – Gotcha” post after midday.
Well at least Mal Brough wants to get back into politics as Queensland Liberal President and maybe getting back into parliament.
Bolt is a perpetual fool’s joke who needs the first of April to get some attention.
Roll on the 2nd of April.
23 Glen,throw your name in the hatfor Queensland liberal president after all the Mayor of Cloncurry became the second Mayor in recent history to win the title in a chook raffle and we know the Libs here prefer to draw their leaders by lucky dip.
If the Member for Kawana leaves the Libs today and becomes an independent does that mean Flegg has now got the numbers to make a four to three comeback?
For Mal Brough to get back into politics he would need to get parachuted into a seat with at least a 10% margin. Then he may just scrape in.
It shows what a sad state Qld conservative politics is in. Mal turned Longman from a safe Liberal to a safe Labor seat. Yet he is the messiah
ruawake, a chook raffle win looks Brough’s only hope. Don’t think he will ever out vote or be preselected over a Santo Santoro candidate any other way.
Bolt would be good for the Libs given their present lack of credibility and he gives good presentation. However, he will find having the freedom to say what he likes the way he likes will only get him in to trouble. He also has the burden of so many ‘opinions’ expressed in no uncertain terms in his articles and blogs, they will be quoted back to him endlessly if he ever became a shadow minister.
He is also No. 1 ticket holder for the global warming skeptics.
Where would he sit on the Liberal party ‘right-o-meter’?
I guess if it makes sense that John McCain can have a hope in hell of winning the White House, then Bolt could become an MP. These freaks still have a powerful global disinformation network operating, and Murdoch is right behind them.
Hey, it’s the sound of the ocean.
http://www.leahy.com.au/leahy/comic.cfm?CFID=15378394&CFTOKEN=20078822
Have a look at the timestamp on Bolt’s blog entry:
Tuesday, April 01, 08 (12:03 am)
The one below it is:
Tuesday, April 01, 08 (09:41 am)
He has been adding new entries since he “resigned”.
Shamahan is up to his usual tricks. “However, efforts to organise a special Tokyo visit have redoubled in the past fortnight, as Mr Rudd has come under political pressure at home and concern has grown in Tokyo that he was being seen to snub Australia’s most important Asian ally and trade partner in favour of China.”
But whose fault is this? Further down his article he states “Despite the apparent eagerness on both sides to get a summit happening, officials in Tokyo pointed out yesterday that timing remained a serious difficulty on the Japanese side.”
I don’t hear Robb and Co making this point.
No one is suprised by what comes out of an orifice, especially the OO – Liberal Orifice. Shamaham is the paper they use to wipe up afterwards.
He’s announced it as an April Fool’s Joke.
I thought the Japanese PM had his hands full with internal party matters?
Why couldn’t he have rung to congratulate Rudd?
it is an indictment of todays Liberal Party that many were prepared to believe one more qualified passenger was about to board the Ship of Fools.
It’s a joke poeple – he’s admitted it on the third update on his loathesome blog.
woops….people
True, charles. Thank you. At 318 Morgan thread.
A MOST informative session on Super, the Stock Market, the implications and options, this morning, Life Matters.
(Off topic, please forgive).
Do you really think Mal Brough would want to go back to Parliament? He’s going to have a massive pension and probably earn about $400K a year as a consultant or whatever. That, of course, is the problem for conservatives in Australia. The typical conservative can make a lot more money outside parliament than they can in it. So what you end up getting Liberal party rooms full of mega-rich ego-maniacs like Malcolm Turnbull, ideologues like Tony Abbott and hacks like [too many to mention].
On the other hand, the typical ALP voter are schoolteachers, nurses, social workers, journalists, academics who cannot cut it in the real world, union hacks and parliamentary staffers, almost all of whom are earning under $80,000 (the first three are honourable and grossly underpaid jobs, by the way). The prospect of a parliamentary career with al the perks is obviously much more appealing to them than it is for the banker / corporate lawyer / medical practitioner / major league corporates who are throwing away thousands of $ a year taking the chance of politics. No wonder the conservative talent pool is dry and the opposition benches full of morons.
What is always so amusing is that so many posters on here genuinely believe the dire state of the conservative parties is attributable to conservative idelogy being inferior. Think again
Chris
There are alot of people in the private sector who voted Labor – especially as AWA’s were doing over people in the private sector who were not part of the business and economic elites as its been found that AWA”s were really for the most part for them – not most others
My father had a business all his life – and often votes Labor – so you need to be careful before making sweeping generalisations like that -
Yes Bird, it is a generalisation, but with a pretty solid foundation. In any event, I am talking about people who aspire to enter parliament, which is a very different thing to the issue of voting
And futhermore Chris,
Union hacks – what is this derisory comment? I mean union members are part of the working majority like anybody else – the Australian Employers Federation is a union – but that’s different right? they just call themselves association or federations – like the AMA – the last closed shop there is –
I bet your working conditions mate are the result of 100 years of union hacks agitating for decent conditions/wages
my working conditions are the result of my hard work
The problems in the NSW liberals is purely ideologically based. Geee one branch rejected their local Federal MP because his maiden speach was not right-wing enough! WorkChoices is just an example of right-wing madness having victory over the responsibility of governing for the benefit of all Australians, not just one segment.
The Federal party is ready to cut throats behind the scenes in keeping Turnbull out because he is not right-wing enough.
If we did not have unions anybodys hard work would not guarantee them anything. People worked hard before unions and were treated like cattle. Workchoices had that situation as its foundation – business unions decide individual wages.
It is like saying my daily safety is because of my own hard vigelence not because of having a police force and judicial system.
#8 Dyno
I agree with Bushfire that MM wasn’t “pretending” to be unbiased. Any person capable of asking intelligent questions on politics, which Maxine did, almost certainly has firm private political views. The fact that she revealed them later by becoming an ALP candidate doesn’t make her past work as a journalist any more suspect than the work of someone else who keeps their views under wraps. You know they all have them whether you find out what they are or not.
You have accounted for the first …oh…. say 200,000 of the Labor voters at the last election Chris of Edgeciff, pity that your powers of perception can’t accomodate or explain away the other…oh… several millions who also voted Labor.
And please. don’t mistake corporate payment for favours provided from the public purse as an indication of the personal competence of the recipient.
And another point, for all the high flyers you describe, there are dozens more in each of those worthy professions and positions who don’t command or demand the obscene incomes you describe, yet contribute just as much, if not more, to the real needs of our society.
CfE @44
My society is the result of my individuality.
Nice one Margaret!
And, yes, I totally agree: the greed and self-interest of competent conservatives has left the LNP to account for itself by way of divinely inspired nutbags (Abbott), hectoring morons (Hockey) and soporific fools (Robb).
From the Bolt Vault.
“Congratulations to reader Ivan Denisovich for being the first to alert readers to the date. Apologies to all those who wrote, rang and posted on my site and their own offering best wishes and help. It’s appreciated, but not yet needed. Less sorry to the Canberra Times, Tree of Knowledge, and Poll Bludger.”
“All generalisations are dangerous, including this one” – Alexandre Dumas
While it is certainly true that one who generalises from experience is not guaranteed to provide a correct answer, I thought the observations of Chris from Edgecliff (40) but more particularly his final paragraph and his perspective on those who aspire to enter parliament, were uncontroversial.
I think Chris from Edgecliff is confusing “parliamentarian” with “mercenary”.
David Charles
In a way you are right, but its often the sentiments that you know that lurk behind that people pick up on –
Its the simplistic and one dimensional stuff about the individual that people object to – its the reason why the Liberal party lost the election
Maxine McKew was no more biased as an ABC journalist than Pru Goward was. Both were excellent, fair journalists, with a deep understanding of politics.
You could have guessed their personal politics by their spouses, but not by their reporting or interviewing.
Is this Antonio from the ABC?
next Community Cabinet 15 April in Penrith if anyone want’s to book a with Kev
http://penrith.yourguide.com.au/news/local/political/tell-mr-rudd-what-you-think/1213701.html
should be book a chat with Kev
And the weekly award for the greatest number of empty ideologically driven clichés in a single comment goes to…
Chris from Edgecliff (#41)
Bird (54) I think what you say is correct.
Comment on Bolt’s thread:
Never going there myself, can someone relate how long it took for the “thinkers” at Bolt’s blog to wake up?
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2204074.htm
“If the Prime Minister were to visit Japan he’s planning to do so twice later this year apparently there’s a question mark over who’s actually in charge. A political stalemate between the nation’s upper and Lower Houses of Parliament has placed the government at the mercy of Opposition parties. As a result, the Prime Minister Yasuo has been unable to appoint a new head for Japan’s Central Bank and looks set to lose $25 billion in revenue after the lapse of a special tax on petrol at midnight tonight.”
The article says Fukuda a 72 yr old son of a former leader was only given the PM job to try and get some stability after the last PM Shinzo Abe turned out to be a disaster and suddenly resigned after 1 yr.
another quote from the article
“It’s not just the Prime Minister who’s weak, but the whole party is weak and lacking a sense of leadership.”
You know it’s April 1st when that peanut gallery over at The Hun starts complaining about the lack of others intellectual rigour.
Just Me: You have the right to prove CfE (#41) wrong, but you didn’t (couldn’t?).
Sorry to be a speeling nark but isn’t it Halberstam ?
Sorry Just Me @59, where are all the “ideologically-driven cliches”? The truth is champ, I wouldn’t even make the short-list for that award given the barrage of postings on here that read something like “all right-wingers are racist and/or greedy and/or selfish and/or lack compassion etc”.
Fulvio @ 49, if 200,000 voters went back to the Liberals at the last election, we’d be talking about another Howard landslide. However, to say it again, the point I was making related to people aspiring to be in parliament, not the ordinary voter. If the point is too difficult for you to grasp, pity you
With due respect to those here who are real Unionist, my experiance is that certain Unions only care about themselves and don’t give a stuff for the workers for they would rather be all smug in a rug with management.
67 “if 200,000 voters went back to the Liberals at the last election, we’d be talking about another Howard landslide.”
Sorry Labor recieved 881,911 more primary votes than the Liberals at the last election. A bit of intellectual rigour please.
Or did you mean to say if 200,000 voters in certain electorates went back … ?
Anthony Albanese appears to be the designated stirrer in the new government. Today he’s had a go at McGauran and Nelson. It looks like Labor might have finally decided that when their opponent is scoring points any way they can then Labor should score a few themselves. They can’t play nice all of the time.
Chris from Edgecliff I cannot help but respond to your claim that ’schoolteachers, nurses, social workers, journalists, academics’ could not ‘cut it in the real world’.
Firstly, what is this so-called real world? Is it so hard to believe that people could choose these occupations due to their genuine desire to work in these areas. Not everyone wants to be a ’successful’ business person you know.
Your further comment that these people are people ‘almost all of whom are earning under $80,000′ just leads wonder why that even needs to be pointed out. Is the worth of someone’s opinion seriously in any way related to the job they hold or the money they earn?
If your original comment was meant to be taken to be relating to people wishing to enter politics (which doesn’t really seem open on a close reading of the comment) its still without base as far as I’m concerned. Who’s to say teachers, nurses, social workers and academics have any less merit as policy makers and representatives of the people in our democratic chambers than lawyers, doctors and business people (of which there are plenty in both parties in any case).
People go into politics for a number of reasons. Whilst some, if not most, obviously are attracted by the perks and the power I think if you talk and get to know a few politicians you will see they are genuinely interested in promoting what they view as the best interests of the country. In the end this is all we can ask for.
CfE @41 says
“… the typical ALP voter are schoolteachers, nurses, social workers, journalists, academics who cannot cut it in the real world”
You’ve given the game away with “who cannot cut it in the real world”.
Same old, tired old, pathetic old belittling of “elites”. Same old, boring old, predictable old division of the workplace into real professions (e.g. blue sky financial research?) and unreal professions (e.g. photovoltaic technology development?).
Yawn.
Ruawake @ 69, anyone applying intellectual rigour would:
(1) read between lines and realise I meant IF 200,000 votes were apportioned to certain electorates, namely those lost to the ALP;
(2) note that the Nationals were in coalition with the Liberals;
(3) therefore would not even waste their time doing the math to work out the number of votes between Liberal and ALP nationally – its a pointless stat
When you add Liberal + National together, I would suspect the total votes cast are about 130,000 to 150,000 less than the ALP…but I don’t have time to check as I am too busy with a job that contributes to the “real needs of our society”, to borrow a line from Fulvio’s rocket science post @ 49
Workers of the world, if you want to attack me, that’s fine. But at least read my posts properly. If you do (did) this, you will note that my post @ 41 was referring to ACADEMICS who cannot cut it in the real world. Nurses, schoolteachers and social workers are most certainly part of what I consider the ‘real world’, and to say it again, I think these professions are grossly underpaid, given the dedication, skill, demands and service provided to the community. But geez, don’t let an correctly-placed comma stop you from portraying me as some idiot from the NSW Right.
The total Lib/Nat primary vote was 5,188,660 compared to 5,388,147 for the ALP.
My point is that english is a precise language, you said “went back to the Liberals” did you not?
Get back to your job – stop slacking off posting on blogs.
Me I’m one of those ‘crocks’ the Editor of the Oz thinks needs a stick.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23447652-16741,00.html
The argument at 73 reminds me of the Pies conga line, dreaming they only need a small swing at the next election to get the coalition back in power.
As I pointed out there, the new ALP MPs are busy building up personal followings, the ALP govt controls the porkbarrel and they need more like a 6% swing. So as not to give them indigestion I did not mention the 65:35 polls and to save them from having to think did not mention the inevitable redistribution.
Since I made that post have not seen any of the conga line mention they just need a small swing back
The Member for Kawana has proven himself to be a fully pledged say something, do another type of spineless old school Queensland Liberal. Steve Dickson has gone to water under the pressure of phone calls.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-mp-backs-down-on-quit-threat/2008/04/01/1206850879830.html
LOL I just read elsewhere that Bolt got 300 odd posts on his blog, most ‘congratulating’ him!
78 Rx, I think you will find it is very easy to find 300 people who would love to see Bolt move on- even at the cost of having to pretend to congratulate him for whatever his latest madness might be.
Maybe, Steve (#79), but I can’t help recalling Possum’s observation at #64:
LOL
Rx, they have certainly got no chance of complaining about the ‘intellectual rigor’ in Bolt’s columns.
“On the other hand, the typical ALP voter are schoolteachers, nurses, social workers, journalists, academics who cannot cut it in the real world”
Has to be one of the more grimly amusing comments I’ve read here. What world ARE they cutting it in then? Discworld? Is that where you go for your education and medical care?
Good grief.
Steve Dickson is having a flirtation with all the conservative parties, first One Nation, then the Libs, then the Nats and now the Borgs.
He really would be right at home with the NSW Libs.
Tassieannie, heard on the radio at lunch time that the ‘young Liberals’ have started an intimidation campaign against academics. Looks like a few of the ringleaders want to denigrate academics here. Just lost in space and turned up on orders of Liberal HQ, I’d imagine.
Sadly, CfE @74, a misplaced comma can reek great tragedy. I’m curious, though, about the reference to academics. Nurses, school teachers and social workers by your list have real jobs (as indeed they do), but is it that academics do not? What is then necessarily wrong with academics (not all of whom are “lefties” I would add) – their realm is, by the nature of academia, social inquiry, which necessitates a viewpoint that emphasises society as a collective construction, not an individualist pursuit.
Your original post @41 also did referred to “ALP voters” not ALP aspirant MP’s, although we can forgive the slip as it has now been clarified – but what about others who occupations you have not noted, such as solicitor/barrister which comes up all too frequently as prospective MP’s occupations? Potentially they do not fall into the “under $80,000″ salary bracket, yet seem willing to be elected as parliamentary representatives.
Trying to divine why the Opposition benches seems low in talent from the occupations of the respective benches is a little thin on backing I would suggest. Perhaps it is more likely that the Opposition appears to have less talent because a certain element of parliamentary service is based in the notion of working for the public good (the ubiquitous “public service”). Running a business for profit does not necessarily encompass this notion, as it is to maximise profit returns to shareholders and individuals. If you’re raison d’etre in life is to maximise personal gain then parliament might seem to be anathematic to this, both on a personal and societal level.
I do, though, think there appears to be a dearth of talent on the Opposition benches because of a conservative individualistic ideology, but not as result of its superiority/inferiority.
ruawake, I was led to believe that Steve Dickson was a born again, man of his word, good upstanding Christian fundamentalist, who if he said he was going to do something would be as good as his word.
Steve @84
This story (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23359239-12149,00.html) is one regarding the Young Liberals wanting a Senate Inquiry into lecturer bias. The Daily Telegraph ran a story a week earlier on the same topic.
Stewart, talk about pining for the McCarthy era.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23359239-12149,00.html
Chris from Edgecliff I have followed your post today & you remind me of ESJ. Your just a poorer version! By the way where is ESJ???
Comment from the Sunny Coast Daily.
“Steve’s staying in the Liberals.
Now there is a surprise.
Phew! He really had me worried there for a while!
He’s obviously staying in the Liberals to continue to learn from other well known local achievers, Peter Slipper and Alex Somlyay.
He should have actually only threatened to threaten to quit.
His talent could not be lost to the Liberal Party or to the State of Queensland.
Thankfully we can all sleep soundly tonight.
Thanks Steve!
DS on Buderim. ”
http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/apr/01/aap-liberal-mp-wont-quit-over-merger-issue/
Chris from Edgecliff
Most of the academics I know do live in the real world – involved in their area of expertise.
For example, I have 2 IR academic friends – both come from union backgrounds, both have done other things – both involved inconsulting with businesses etc..about the cut and thrust of industrial relations
Another example, are some academics from UNSW – it took them 13 years of international activism to get rape considered as a war crime – yes, this came from the left hand side of politics, so you could not be more wrong – they are actually at the cutting edge of social change and many years of thankless work is involved to achieve outcomes which you probably are not aware of
Bird – they teach the teachers, nurses and social workers, and are obviously not living in the real world. Like Julian Burnside.
Oh wait – he’s a barrister. Also a human rights activist, trade union sympathiser, author, and supporter of the arts. What a misfit!
Saying public servents are slack is nearly as honest as saying that all bankers can’t add up.
Nurses are grossly underpayed considering the actual job they do.
Teachers generally are underpayed and undervalued.
The problem is for a Government to correct the pay of nurses you will have the rest of the Union movement demand higher pay and conditions.
A Nurse should be paid atleast three quarters of what we pay doctors
Albanese reckons that the Nelson Listening Tour is just Nelson running a marginal Liberal Party seat campaign to bolster his own support.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/01/2204580.htm?section=justin
Check our the echo chamber posts Bolt gets! Fawning of a high order. Are people really that stupid?
Losers.
suckers. but then a little andrew bolt might bring some dewy eyed lefties back to earth – you know, the place where reason rules and not the wish to simply be holier than thou. for example i wonder how long a basic right wing lecturer might last in most of our universities – not long when the tribal heavies get after them. you people bark the same tune at every turn because you dont understand the concept of real debate – to you guys it’s like ‘how dare you go against us”. how about listening to a contra-view, make it more interesting than the nonsense on this blog. facts not fiction makes for better interdiction.
Hi all. This place looks like fun for one of Andrew Bolt’s so called ’sycophants’.
Got a question for you. Two actually. Relates to the fact that people in the private sector were being ‘done over’ by AWAs, as mentioned in one of the posts above.
Curious if anyone here can actually prove that. That is, show statistical evidence that Australians on AWAs were, on the whole, worse off than people on other forms of agreements.
Or, were we lied to and did the Government just make a major policy decision affecting a large number of Australians without any solid data to guide them?
Good luck.
Wow, so much verbiage, so little comprehension. Leaving aside the comments which completely fail to understand the basic points made by CfE, we have Stewart J @85 having a stab. Firstly Stewart:
“Nurses, school teachers and social workers by your list have real jobs (as indeed they do), but is it that academics do not?”
Chris from Edgecliff explicitly wrote ‘academics who can’t cut it’. It’s obvious he is referring not to all academics, but to those particular academics whose livelihood depends on the sheltered workshops existing in ‘disciplines’ like cultural studies, post-modernism, or the human rights (aka ‘human flights’ given the amount of gratuituous travel involved) gravy train in Law faculties for example. What follows is the inherent gravy train of politics, which is that much more pronounced in the ALP, where unionism, protectionism and a hand-out mentality to special interests rule the day.
Secondly:
“Their realm is, by the nature of academia, social inquiry, which necessitates a viewpoint that emphasises society as a collective construction, not an individualist pursuit.”
Nice entry from the Rudd school of filling out vacuousness with redundant verbiage. In short, what a crock.
The hilarious thing here is that despite all the ALP loving going on, most of you are oblivious to the extent to which the direction of policy in Australia and Western democracies follows conservative principles. Privatisation – who started the ball rolling by selling Qantas? Why, it was your beloved ALP! Where is the tariff-raising protectionism that the Left would have us believe is in our collective interest? What happened to the howls of protest at the GST (That which Rudd called a ‘Fundamental Injustice’)? What exactly has the ALP done with mandatory detention of people-smuggled illegal immigrants? Welcomed them back in? Has the Northern Territory Intervention been scrapped?
Face it, if you want to live in a capitalist world, then as George Michael once said, ‘If you’re going to do it, do it right’. The fact is that those people who understand conservative principles are the ones who are generally more competent and successful, and less in need of the type of mollycoddling the ALP has thrived on. A mollycoddling which incidentally costs society at large the number one thing which is for the common good – jobs.
Just cleared a few comments out of moderation – apologies for the delay. A warm welcome to newcomers from the Andrew Bolt community.
Welcome Bolters
Carl.
AWA Data the Liberals Claimed Never Existed
The Workplace Authority has provided the Government with data compiled and analysed from a sample of over 1700 Australian Workplace Agreements lodged between April and October 2006, data the previous Liberal government claimed didn’t exist.
The analysis of the 1748 AWAs shows that 89 per cent removed at least one so-called protected award condition:
89 per cent excluded one or more so-called protected award conditions
83 per cent excluded two or more so-called protected award conditions
78 per cent excluded three or more so-called protected award conditions
71 per cent excluded four or more so-called protected award conditions
61 per cent excluded five or more so-called protected award conditions
52 per cent excluded six or more so-called protected award conditions
40 per cent excluded seven or more so-called protected award conditions
30 per cent excluded eight or more so-called protected award conditions
16 per cent excluded nine or more so-called protected award conditions
8 per cent excluded ten or more so-called protected award conditions
2 per cent excluded all eleven so-called protected award conditions
The analysis also revealed the so-called protected award conditions that were most frequently removed:
70 per cent removed shift work loadings
68 per cent removed annual leave loadings
65 per cent removed penalty rates
63 per cent removed incentive based payments and bonuses
61 per cent removed days to be substituted for public holidays
56 per cent removed monetary allowances
50 per cent removed public holidays payment
49 per cent removed overtime loadings
31 per cent removed rest breaks
25 per cent removed declared public holidays
The limited data revealed that 75 per cent of the 1487 AWAs sampled did not provide for a guaranteed wage increase.
These are the statistics the former Liberal government didn’t want to tell the Australian people about. These are the individual statutory agreements that the Liberal Party brought to Australian working families.
Good Luck
By the way Possum has a couple of interesting graphs for the fawners before they Bolt back to the security blanket of the Herald Scum.
http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/political-advice-by-the-column-inch/
Phillip Coorey, Sydney Morning Herald, 13 March 2008
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/liberals-accused-of-hypocrisy-on-bonus/2008/03/12/1205126014056.html
Yes… and your point is? What is so bad about agreeing to remove rubbish like annual leave loading (getting paid *more* while on holiday)? What were the individual circumstances around some of the other removals? And what is the corresponding average increase in wages negotiated through AWAs? You’ll find that information in wage growth statistics, which is typically left out of these discussions by the ALP and its disciples.
103 [You’ll find that information in wage growth statistics, which is typically left out of these discussions by the ALP and its disciples.]
Err Jack, I think you left out the the statistics yourself!
Jack Kerry
If you care to look at the statistics real wages fell after the introduction of workchoices.
I have the stats. Just to let you know that you need to provide evidence for your claims.
You go first, show me the evidence that real wages have risen due to No Choices.
And that will be the first test for the Bolters who are now resident here
Frank, it’s a test they can’t pass.. next!
Nice try fellas, but a fail at economics 101. What’s the difference in wage between a job and no job? That’s right, it’s +100 percent. The real wage growth is reflected in the increase in employment which occurs when you reform the labour market and remove distortions like ‘annual leave loading’. Yes, you get short-term falls in areas like hospitality – because these jobs were artificially overvalued by mandated distortions like shift-penalties. But the real benefit of labour reform comes from long-term wages growth in real terms, while *containing* short-term nominal spikes (which otherwise leads to things like, you know, higher interest rates and stuff). Not to mention more jobs overall. Here’s a question for you ALP disciples. If removal of unfair dismissal (a key element of workchoices) is so bad, why has the ALP kept it for a year? Do you lot seriously believe that labour market reform is not necessary in any way to lower the rate of unemployment? What happens when we fall into recession? Do you want an environment in which it is easier for business to hire, or more difficult?
Jack, see 104 Where are your stats?
Where are your stats, Steve? Show me unemployment rising because of workchoices, and not falling. Can’t do it? Should I ignore all your arguments as a result?
Jack,you made this claim at comment 103. Back it up with figures.
“You’ll find that information in wage growth statistics, which is typically left out of these discussions by the ALP and its disciples.”
The Liberal government spent $121 million dollars of public money promoting their WorkChoices experiment. (Did the Liberal Party at any time spend any Party money promoting their policy?)
The ACTU on the other hand spent just $14 million opposing it.
http://news.theage.com.au/work-choices-dead-says-nelson/20071219-1i1i.html
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23401969-462,00.html
“WAGES grew by 4.7 per cent over the year to January, the most in over three years, despite talk of an economic slowdown”.
Now care to actually contribute to discussion? If not, kindly stop wasting space here.
^ directed at Steve @111
drink
Jack I see no statistics, just a change of tack. You seem to have a thing about annual leave loading – do you agree that business should charge “peak and off peak” tariffs for their services? Poor hospitality workers not getting paid for public holidays when their employers still charge a holiday surplus.
Actually the difference between a job and no job is not 100% in many cases it is about 40%.
I presume you think JWH was unfairly dismissed
Can you cite anyone credible who thinks Australia is headed for a recession. Note the word credible.
Jack – sorry -I don’t see any mention in that article of higher wage growth due to AWAs or the removal of unfair dismissal laws in that article – could you point it out please?
Carl
Professor Gregory Peetz and co from Griffith University did all the major studies into the IR stuff – and the overarching evidence was clearly against keeping them. Because of the differences in power between a person and corporation, AWA’s have been proven to be basically for the business and economic elites – even in the mining sector, when they averaged out 3per cent less across both industries…if you want specific evidence of this i can get it – online opinion.com.au if you look at Gregory Peetz this is available.
As far as jobs go, there was never really any evidence that it produced any, at best if you can crush the wages of the bottom half you can create some casualised working poor jobs – but like in the US people will not be able to live on 5 bucks an hour, 5 hours a week at the local cafe. We already have a high income disparity here, long term ramificatons would be that it would of become extreme – producing more crime and social dislocation
I was also privy to reading the Senate Submission from our top labour market academics – the words extreme and radical were not usual and against ILO conventions -eg. right to strike provisions etc…it was 90 per cent of power to the employer 10% of power to the employee -
Chris in LDN: I see no mention in that article of higher wage growth *not* having anything to do with labour market reform. Could you point it out, please?
Anyone here care to address the substance of my arguments regarding the long-term benefits of removing artificial distortions in labour markets, or have we all just given up, mmm?
Jack Kerry @ 113 –
And what was the proportion of the workforce on AWAs in the year to Jan?
Jack – you were using that article to prove your point -which it clearly doesn’t as it doesn’t reference your points. An argument like that might cut the mustard over on Andew’s blog, but you’ll need to prove your point here unfortunately.
Look there wage growth in the UK too, where are the AWA’s and removal of unfair dismaiisal laws here – oh wait – maybe it’s that wages are pretty mucch growing e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e…….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/nov/15/economy
117 We can see the effects of skills shortages and capacity constraints especially in the construction and mining industries but IR reform – I don’t think so.
Liberals block release of information on planned WorkChoices 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wm5DMYxGcw
Well, at least ruawake at 116 hasn’t given up with actual discussion and thinking. Ruawake, I’m not in favour of supply-side distortions either – remember, two wrongs don’t make a right. If businesses are exploiting monopoly conditions, then they should be regulated. However, forcing businesses to pay things like annual leave loading just lowers the overall employment rate. If you can’t afford to take on another worker because of artificial provisions like that, then somebody has lost a job opportunity. It’s a matter of finding a balance by keeping basic standards, like a minimum wage, workplace safety, recourse for harrassment etc.
Jack
I am more than happy to address your arguements – no matter how fallacious they are.
Wages, we need to compare real wages – ie wages less inflation, unfair dismissal has never been an issue – any competent business will tell you so.
Can you tell me how No Choices simultaneously increased wages and also stopped wage based inflation?
I am still waiting for any evidence to show that No Choices increased real wages, a hint try the ABS not News Ltd.
Jack – I don’t think anyone here is discussing leave-loading apart from yourself? You still haven’t backed up your assertation that AWAs increased wages. Please prove your point.
Jack: – see my post at 118, just above yours
When you say “Labour Market” Reform – its like common sence Jack- like there is no ideology behind it – it was a far right IR policy – Australians have rejected the values outcome in this – you obviously do not, but enough people do
If you go and look at the ABS Statistics, you will see many jobs being created before they destroyed the social democratic structures, in fact there was more jobs 2 years created before the IR stuff changed, than there was the year after it changed. All they really needed to do was slightly tweek those unfair dismissal laws – all else was working fine. Unless of course, you completely wanted a US Society – which you do, but again, others do not because they value other things other than economics takes all. They value others things on top of profit making such as justice/fairness and do not want the values of the market place bought into every area of a society.
Australian’s have decided thatyour half a point does not outweigh the other 30 points that I am bringing up and a no to US style working poor
Here’s to holidays, Jack.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/03/suunday-dollarssense-heres-to-holidays.html
Ruawake: “unfair dismissal has never been an issue – any competent business will tell you so.”
Got evidence for this? Hint: try any source, even the ABS! See, two can play this game.
Have to leave for dinner now – it’s all been good fun!
Just saw the other comments. Steve, who’s arguing against holidays? Please look up the difference between annual leave and annual leave loading.
And before the ‘oh you’re running away’ crowing, nobody here can provide a basic argument against removing labour market distortions. Can anyone here justify annual leave loading? Anyone?
Cheerio comrades
Misha Schubert, The Age, 13 March 2008
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pm-attacked-over-minimum-wage/2008/03/12/1205126011449.html
“99% of private sector firms won’t need to comply with unfair dismissal laws: Businesses with up to 100 staff are exempt from unfair dismissal laws. ABS data suggests only 1.1% of private sector employers have more than 100 staff. This means employees in more than 575,800 private sector businesses now have no unfair dismissal protections under the Government’s new IR laws.” (ABS Small Business in Australia 1321.0, 2001)
Rx,
Careful about quoting from Fairfax, lest you’re accused of supporting those Bolshie Leftards
For the Bolties, Rupert is the ONLY source
Kina has compiled quite an archive of WorsChoices stories at the OzForums site:
http://ozforums.com.au/viewtopic.php?id=28
The amusing thing is that he couldn’t back up his claims, when pressed to back them up started spouting about leave-loading (WTF?!) as a defence, only to be ’saved’ when his mum called him for dinner……
Here’s the story of the Cloncurry Mayor being elected similar to the way the Winton Mayor was decided a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/now-a-pingpong-ball-decides-election/2008/04/01/1206850903073.html
Jack Kerry, provide us with a skerrick of evidence that employment growth and the current state of full employment in this country has anything to do with Workchoices. The fact is, it is entirely due to mineral exports and the China/ India trade boom, not the ideologically driven fanaticism of your conservative heroes.
The only things to increase, short or long term, as a result of such Government repression of working conditions and wages is the profits of the previous Government’s core constituency, and the determination of those suffering as a result to remove that Government. And the proof of that has been laid bare for all to see.
As far as keeping certain aspects of the repulsive workchices in place transitionally is concerned, perhaps you should revisit politics 101, or a high school civics course on the effects of impulsive implementation of policy and the benefits of compromise, so as to understand and learn from the mistakes of the previous administration.
Please don’t presume to lecture us with your facile, self assumed intellectual superiority.
As the Arabs say, the higher a monkey climbs a tree, the more he exposes his backside.
“Can anyone here justify annual leave loading? ”
To the best of my recollection annual leave loading was introduced by the Whitlam Govt. as compensation for the fact that business had imposed holiday surcharges.
This meant that when a family could take holidays (christmas, easter, school holidays) that suddenly everything was more expensive.
You can’t have it both ways, either business charges the same rates or workers get extra.
I guess you believe that business should be able to charge whatever they like?
Frank #133, the Truth according to Neo-Cons? No thanks. Blah!
Sorry to ‘Bolt-on’,
but,
a) is there a specific word for a self-serving joke that is designed to blow smoke up your own arse?
and
b) doesn’t the fact so many people were prepared to believe Mr Bolts ‘jape’ just highlight the paucity Liberal talent?
‘Swap a hack for Costello? No worries.’
I’ve seen Maxine on telly, and you sir, are no Maxine.
Not even half a Mike Bailey.
Shamaham for PM I tells ya.
Anyone want a WC mouse mat?
Well, the Bolt admirers clearly think they’ve belted the hell out of the Bludgers. Very amusing. Truly the new opposition, in the absence of any real one. Possum’s column is a cracker!
I keep getting this image of this crew as a couple of Westmoreland Terriers marching up and down, barking importantly at any new visitor, absolutely impotent to do anything about said visitors. Except they’re the new visitors.
Don’t leave us, guys. You’re such fun. Your reasoning is so superior. Your arguments so convincing.
Oh, bugger, why is Dolly on the 7.30 Report? Who gives a rats what he thinks?
Would make excellent Soundproofing material for Neocons to wail like banshees without being heard, and also to stop them injuriing themselves while banging their heads against the wall.
Re Jack Kerry – I actually felt like he was saying, just name 10, just NAME 10!!!! Must be Boltspeak
Flogging a very very dead horse here. Howard’s biography already revealed that they knew WC was going to harm people and sundry admissions after the election by Nelson and Kevin Andrews especially was that WorkChoices did harm people and they were sorry for it and that they knew it would. Even the horses mouth, now dead and being beaten, admits to WC harming people.
I believe one of Peetz’s (many) analysis of the mining industry showed that those without WC AWAs were considerably better off in contrast to the propaganda. The effect on the retail industry was also devastating, but we are not going to keep digging out the data every time someone wants raise Howard’s flag. The battle has been debated long and hard and lost by Howard, Andrews and co and, they got punished for their ideological adventure into 19th century IR.
There are a number of sites with the data and references and a search of even the papers will pull up a great many articles revealing the dirty laundry of WC.
At least Jack tried to show some intellectual rigour, it’s just his rigour was not very intellectual.
Bludgers tend to back up stuff with data, or at least some kind of basis for the comment.
I find it odd that the Jack’s of this world are big on rhetoric but shallow on detail, must be a smirkey kind of attribute.
There are 171 posts here dealing with WorkChoices and a sundry collection of articles and data as they appeared.
http://www.ozforums.com.au/viewtopic.php?id=28&p=1
I found it amusing that the Canadian back in June 07 court threw out WC type laws saying that collective bargaining was a human right.
OTTAWA — In a landmark ruling, the Supreme Court of Canada on Friday declared for the first time that collective bargaining rights are protected in the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f55f272e-34b8-464a-aa12-b6b2a972aa86&k=78774
Kina
That’s because Canada has a bill of rights in its constitution, its time we had a similar amendment.
I think Mr Bolt would be the first to oppose such a move.
Here is the short statement from the Reserve Bank Governor following the decision to keep interest rates on hold.
http://www.rba.gov.au/MediaReleases/2008/mr_08_04.html
ruawake at 148 ‘I think Mr Bolt would be the first to oppose such a move.’ No if you tried to do it while he was personally trying to dam the Mitchell river.
(What is that all about – have I missed something?)
So all the lerks and perks company directors get, hence claim on as a tax deduction and someone here talks about abolishing leave loading, what planet does this person live on?
Dear Bludgers,
Can someone, preferably a Victorian, please help me comprehend the thing known as Andrew Landeryou.
I am aware that his old man was a Victorian ALP state MP. I am also aware that he is financially bankrupt and a failed businessman. I am further aware that he is not a big fan of Solly Lew (who, it appears, stole poor little trusting Andy’s hard earned), Stephen Mayne, left wingers or The Age.
Landeryou’s blog, at a quick glance, is nothing more than an organ for him to vent his hatred for his fellow man.
He comes across as a very bitter and twisted soul.
The question I ask is: Is Landeryou a Tory loving ALP turncoat, or is he just an average garden variety bitter shite-stirring schmuck?
151
marky marky
Excellent point MM
I would back “average garden variety bitter shite-stirring schmuck?”
So the Bolt spiders crawled out of their dark lairs today did they, pity I had to miss the fun. God it must have been hilarious to have seen their faces after all their outpourings of grief at losing their beloved, only to find the wan*er was having a lend of them. Too, too funny. And pathetic!
Fagin, without any insider knowledge, just on occasionally reading , I’d agree with schmuck.
I thought it was good that Jack Kerry and a few others from Bolts blog found their way over here to have a chat. I don’t agree with a lot of what he said, but it sure did make it abit more interesting around here., a nice change from the usual “the OO said this, don’t the Libs get it?. Howard was an arse” type posts that usually flood this blog.
Beat the crap out of reading Glen’s regurgitated tripe
I wonder what would have been the reaction if Piers had run the same piece?
Anything that Bolt or Piers say is one big April fool joke.
Nice summary mm.
Thanks guys.
Love your work.
Classified.
I enjoy Glen’s “regurgitated tripe” which on reflection it is not. At least he has the good grace to realise the situation.
I welcome other original points of view, but the Bolters who appeared today are fighting old battles that they have lost.
To each their own I guess ruawake…
I can see your point I guess…Like in the election runup, all those “at least Howard doesn’t eat his earwax” posts were quite insightfull, original and well…
na… twas tripe
Landeryou’s comments section brings together the most erudite Liberal minds in this nation.
Classified
I will accept your point – although in election mode I think many of us made some waxy or wacky comments.
Touche
I must say I was dying to type a p.s. along the lines of
p.s. You lost the election! You lost the election! Nah-nah-na-nah-nah.
But obviously I am too mature for that, so i didn’t
Well, I suppose I should have been hoist on my “tragedy” reference – twas not smelly (”reeks”) but disasterous (”wrecks”), but was instead hoisted on…nothing…. While interesting, I am left wondering why the Bolter’s wandered in if the line was simply to abuse and then leave. Perhaps some will come back and debate more throughly.
Seems the attention span of most of the bolters is over, William.
Oh well. So much for your gracious welcome.
Looks like a bit of fun, while it lasted.
Maybe one or two may stay, for a while. Maybe one may be back.
I think, William, it unlikely that they would have been aware of you, until Bolt was kind enough to point you out.
Difficult though, Bolt. Not that I have ventured on to his site until today. He runs so many ‘issues’ that even the most ardent of his devotees would have little time or inclination to gaze outside.
Bolt needs his clickers. Its all about the money. Tough world out there, as his respondents attest. I wonder what the $ per click value is?
Have you lined a pocket, William?
Marky Marky, your comments about Andrew Landeryou have been deleted.
“To the best of my recollection annual leave loading was introduced by the Whitlam Govt. as compensation for the fact that business had imposed holiday surcharges.”
Leave loading was introduced by Clyde Cameron of the Whitlam govt. It was meant as compensation for the drop in pay when shift workers went on leave. Back in those days shift workers got paid an allowance on top of their normal weekly wage for the shift work. When they went on leave there was no shift allowance as the leave was classified as ordinary earnings, so the leave loading was meant to compensate for this.
But, as Cameron himself admitted in the late 80’s, he got snowed by the public service (yes it was happening back then and to labor govts also) and the leave loading was introduced for everyone as a type of holiday bonus.
The leave loading was generally one of the first things to be bargained away in collective agreements and awards, and most awards and agreements now have a clause that shift workers get their loadings whilst on leave. Thus bringing it in line with what was meant to happen.
Correct you are, Rod at 170.
However, I disagree (a little) in terms of public servants.
At a certain point, high interest rates met enterprise bargaining met low wage increases met huge unpaid overwork, over a very long period of years.
The leave loading was essential in my life, at the critical moment.
As is no doubt, such compensation as the baby bonus.
I recall my declaration, one day, finally, that I was fed up with trying to save Australia, single handedly.Paul Keating, love you dearly, but I have done enough. With no reward in sight. Perhaps ungratefully. But I don’t think so.
Handouts are cyclical. As you say, they are bargained out. As should happen to the baby bonus, as I say.
I think Rod @ 170 is basically right about leave loading.
If people want it and employers will pay it, so be it, but I must say (having not had it for the past 14 years) that I really haven’t missed it.
But yes, its absence does mean saving up a bit extra for holiday time.
Crikey
Those comments re being “snowed by the public service” were Camerons own words, not mine.
I also enjoyed the leave bonus, thought it a bit of a rort, as I didn’t do shift work, but also a nice bonus.
The latest rumour about any by-elections is interesting. The story is the AEC is not interested in doing a super Saturday due to some cost factors and would requests the writs be issued for different days. I think they would happy to do one byelection per state on the same weekend but as there could be up to four in Victoria (McEwan, Higgins, Gippsland, Menzies) and maybe two or even three in NSW (Lyne, Berowra and even North Sydney if Hockey goes to lead at state level) that means hiring more casual staff than normal for a byelection.
Understood, Rod 173. About Cameron.
‘Enjoyed’ though is not the correct word. Necessary, until as I say it ultimately became a bit of a handout as order was established. In terms of reasonable salary, for example.
Then, the loading was gone. As should be the handouts I speak of. Especially not means tested.
And I was not a shift worker, merely working my guts out. Before 8.00 am and beyond 8.00 pm. For no money. Even the time unclaimed.
Nelson backs Brough, while Dickson backs Springborg, Michael Johnson backs the Libs federally but not at state level while McArdle tells Dickson to keep his problems within the Liberal camp.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/01/2205275.htm?section=justin
Unclear. Paid for the 8 hour day, of course. No more than that.
176 Welcome to you too GP. What the hell are you on about this time?
Who would know, when overzealous moderation censors the debate.
Well don’t be so rude.
Steve, GP imagines he has an inalienable right to be disruptive and abusive. He does not, so his comment has been deleted.
Just caught a moment of Rudd on Lateline and I think he is porking up a bit.
Any little bit extra that working people can get is a bonus, in an era of CEO’s earning large salaries and their salaries having increased significantly and business people being able to claim significant tax deductions for company cars, lunches and other business perks. Leave loading is something which working people deserve and should get especially from the big businesses who have being doing quite well for themselves.
You know, rude people aside. I just heard the tail end of the repeat of Life Matters, whilst waiting to hear Philip.
Richard Adey (spelling?) is sooooo funny, modest, self deprecating.
A must hear person. As is Ramona Koval. And Mike Mackenzie on Bush Telegraph. The latter program used to be so wan and deadly serious. Exhausting. Well intended, sure. But these days.
The fun injection works. The topics are serious, but leavened.
PS. I do not work for the ABC. If I did, I would jerk their TV into real life.
My ears were burning, thought I’d pop in. Continued respek to Mr William who does such a fine job here.
To answer Fagin, (an interesting choice of name which I hope doesn’t make an unpleasant and anti-semitic point) my site of freedom merely offers my views of the world and my news of the screws loose and hard in local politics.
Am sorry that a description of me had to be deleted because I would happily have responded to whatever filth was advanced. Why do leftistes have such foul mouths? Was it an absence of breast-feeding or perhaps too long a period of same?
While I can figure out a bit about politics and report on it with patriotic fervour, I can’t answer deeper questions like that.
I was a member of the ALP for twenty years and retain great respect for both major political parties. (I acknowledge though as we all should the perfidy of the Greens party menace) I just figured it was a bit of a stretch to retain party membership while dishing out free character assessments on many within, so I lapsed (to use the jargon for not renewing membership) at the earliest opportunity after starting the blog.
I am thrilled that we have an excellent mixture of sources within the parties, particularly factions and fractions that often get unfairly treated by mainstream media agenda-pushing journalists. They range from the hardheads of the NSW Liberal Right to even the occasional brave Socialista Leftist in the Victorian Labor party. We aim to love all and serve all patriots.
It is true that my blessed online publication is a bit of an acquired taste yet I hope is nutritious on occasion.
For those who find it distasteful, I strongly suggest going cold turkey.
Go in peace,
Game on.
No more accidental phone messages, Andrew, I promise.
Tasmanian latest state polling here.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23463086-5013945,00.html
Andrew L. Interesting and pleasing to see you here. (The Bolt effect?)
One thing:
‘Am sorry that a description of me had to be deleted because I would happily have responded to whatever filth was advanced. Why do leftistes have such foul mouths’?
Why do you think them ‘leftistests’ ?
it must be a form of endearment Crikey
Willam,
Speaking of State Polls, did you record last night’s Ten News where they discusssed a Newspoll with Keith Patterson ? I missed the start, but it said something about Buswell being on 18%.
If you have it on tape, a Youtube would be appreciated
.
That should be William
Andrew never misses a chance to knock the Greens. He must have been done in a preference deal ?
Kev cave’s, to the MSM.
Breaking news, Lateline. Visit to Japan, earlier than anticipated. No further details given.
Anticipate, Kev, anticipate.
They are out to getcha.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Steve.
Frank: no, I know nothing of what you speak. Do you mean Westpoll though? Not sure why Patterson would know about a Newspoll that wasn’t publicly available.
Yeah, Westpoll. It was a story about some Liberal briefing with stgakeholders such as the CCI, AMA etc.
mm tassie poll. clear as mud
31, 31, 18 and 19 undecided.
Patterson = WESTPOLL…
I know, it was a Freudian slip after not getting a Newspoll.
The point with things like leave loading is that they’re part of a package – the oncosts of employing someone.
When you’re talking about employing someone, it’s the total cost to you as an employer – leave loading, holiday pay, sick leave, super etc – that you should look at, not just the weekly wage.
Of course, you could work out an hourly rate that factored in compensation for all those costs but if it makes no overall difference to your wages bill there’s no real advantage in doing so – the only way you win is if you are shortchanging your workers in some way.
The implication of posts like Jack’s is that you pay someone an hourly rate and then suddenly! out of the blue! holidays strike and you have to dish out extra money.
This – and concerns with ‘unfair dismissal’ (how can anyone argue that they SHOULD have the right to dismiss someone unfairly??) – raises the question of business competence.
If you can’t work out the true costs of employing someone and you need legal protection so that you can dismiss workers unfairly, then you are obviously not competent to run a business.
My academic background is not economics; a fact I have actually been proud of through my adult life. My grounding is very much in develop theories from an evidential basis that explains what happens. My long-term view has been that if you cant predict accurate outcomes from the theory throw it away. What I have seen over 30 years is that economists cannot predict outcomes using their theories nor can they adequately explain the recent past.
My point is that the conversation regarding workchoices or any other industrial model is a waste of time because empirical measurements are flawed and thus any conclusion that is made from these measurements will also be flawed.
Jack Kerry can make his comments and not feel the heat of being misinformed because there is no definitive argument. There is no argument because there is no definitive theory that encompasses all the parameters.
Marks and Engels got it wrong, don’t expect to get it right here. The economy is an uncontrollable beast driven by greed, on the part of both employers and employees it is just employers tend to be more greedy.
Arguments over leave loading are irrelevant the discussions should be at the deepest level as to how our markets operate and how we all benefit from the existing system with some equity.
What we should all recognise is we live in the world together and should benefit equally from the continal growth in wealth.
This goes beyond politics and petty arguments on irrelevancies.
We need to be discussing new horizons.
I enjoy the intellectual banter provided here and have at times participated but maybe as respect for this site grows based on it’s political analysis so should the analysis of other conversations be consistent with those concerned with the analysis of voting intentions.
I think we should all keep a healthy skepticism of political intentions of those we vote for.
Newspoll or Westpoll Frank , as long as the Liberals do not improve
Colin , even before looking at the theories Jack Kerry did not understand the most vunerable workers were victims of workchoices whether there are definitive theories or not. therefore Labour opposed it . It was not fair to workers anyway
Fagin @ 152
However repellent many find Landeryou and however contradictory his political preferences, his is one of extremely few sites to provide detailed analysis of factional politics based on apparently genuine and knowledgeable internal sources (hidden amongst all the other stuff, including the obvious slant).
This sort of information is very closely guarded usually. And Landeryou’s sources stop at the Murray it seems (he must have f**ked the NSW people over in some student politics deal or something). Unfortunately, the general lack of timely and detailed information about factional matters allows people like David Clarke – the NSW Liberal Party’s right faction boss and easily the most powerful man in the branch now that Howard’s gone – to tell journos that factions are something only the ALP has and somehow not be called out as a liar.
I was really struck a few weeks back by a conversation on this site about NSW politics in which people seemed to accept that Liberal Party factions are somehow less powerful or pervasive than the ALP’s. This may have been true when the professors who taught us Pol Sci 1 were going through student politics. It’s so far from the truth in the modern Liberal Party that it’s laughable, at least in NSW and Victoria (and I strongly suspect elsewhere).
You can’t fault the public for not knowing this – the Liberal Party doesn’t boast about it and the media isn’t interested usually. There’s a real double standard from the commentariat though. If the NSW ALP machine had been taken over by the militant left we’d never hear the end of it. Yet the NSW Liberal Party machine gets taken over by the most radical mob in its history (even the Murdoch papers habitually describe them as the “hard right”) and there’s barely a peep unless one of Clarke’s state MPs actually threatens to punch someone. (Try googling Hawkesbury Williams Pringle for some background on that MP and a taste of Clarke’s methods, and then remember that these people will have a solid majority in O’Farrell’s partyroom were he ever to become Premier.)
I was not going to say anything about Andrew L comments but seeing others have i will respond. He buckets people on his site but does not like people bucketing him back. Lol.
Steve, one State that Labor will lose will be Tasmania and i will glad to see Lennon go, as i do not like him. Unfortunately i do not want the Libs replacing him, it would be better if someone internally challenged and replaced him.
Post up on the Tasmanian poll.
zoom @ 198,
Disagree about unfair dismissal. Especially for small business.
The unspoken basis of your post is that all employees act in good faith in disputes with their employer. But in fact there is a small minority that don’t, and for a small business, the presence of such a worker can make the owner’s life hell.
It’s not an issue for a large employer – it’s just a cost to them, they just find the b*st*rd employee a sinecure, or pay them out in a massive way so they won’t sue for unfair dismissal, and the cost gets passed on to the customer.
But if you run a business with say 10 staff or less, a manipulative, potentially litigious staff member means your life is a misery, unless there is a reasonable way to get rid of them.
So small business end up using a coping mechanism, namely they hire fewer people, and take fewer risks.
Excellent comment, Molesworth.
Dyno , yes there are ‘trouble making bad’ employees however there are always ways to get them to resign for a clever small businessman.
However the abolition of wrongful dismissal as been abused by Employers to get rid of good staff and r-hire replacements at lower wages.
In any event if I had to choose between the 2 alternatives , I prefer to protect the 95% of good genuine workers
193
Crikey Whitey Says:
Breaking news, Lateline. Visit to Japan, earlier than anticipated. No further details given.
Anticipate, Kev, anticipate.
They are out to getcha.
The actual story was that Rudd said they have been trying to settle a date with the Japanese since the beginning of the year, and it has only just happened.
Spin? Maybe. But no more than the spin from the opposition, and their media mouthpieces.
Tomorrows News.
SMH. Iemma proposal. Gaol for parents who fail to send their kids to school. (!)
OZtrailying. Kids abused in State Care, SA. (Surprise, not to me. Worked there. See Iemma.)
Maritime union pressures Rudd Govt to release strategy docs Howard Govt, waterfront dispute. Read dogs etc.
The Age. CEO Transport to step down. Ticketing thing.
Fin Review. More Disaster, stocks shares and other shonks.
Advertiser. As above. Kids abused. State Care.
Radical hospital review/reforms. (Smarten up the slackers, nothing much else)
Hobart Mercury. Proposal to swab steering wheels for drug traces.
Students marching against Pulp Mill..
Crikey:
Anything From The West ?
Sadly nothing I could hear of interest, whilst typing. No poll, no thrills, no nothing.
What do you all do there?
Don’t you like the RWDB’s at the Sydney Institute talk about ABC Bias.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23469026-7583,00.html
Oh, too yuk, Frank. It is not so long ago that one read of Difference of Opinion being introduced as ’so balanced.’ The ABC is at the tipping point. Over.
I didn’t like my flippant tone at 211. Would you and William accept my apology.
As have said before, I think WA is great. And clearly some of its inhabitants.
No offence, The West seems to ignore serious Journalism in favour of Tabloid Dreck, oh and anything involving Brian Burke.
Noticed on Lateline that 8,000 Business’s insolvent in the last 12 Months. Workchoices didn’t help them.
Also, Mortgage defaults doubled in the last 3 years. I wonder if it had anything to do with the 10 Interest Rate increases in that time under Howard & Costello’s management of the economy.
I wonder how Bolter’s crowd can explain these two issues. All Rudd’s fault, I presume.
And I’ve noticed that the main Bolter hasn’t returned from dinner – I wonder if he was battle scarred from playing with the big kids, and has returned to the sandpit with Bolt & and the rest of the Kindy kids ?
Scorpio, so unfair.
Workchoices did not have time enough to work its magic. Not helped of course by the unforeseen introduction of the Fairness Test.
Told you that the Bolters would have returned to their hole.
Its a lot more comfortable there. Everybody agrees with each other.
Nothing helps one’s self esteem more than being part of a mutual master bation society.
Crikey, don’t you know that creatures of the familia rodentia prefer to spend much of their time in holes.
Good to see all you regular Bludgers defending your turf so competently.
Cheers to all. Off to bed. Early start today. Round 1 of the Veterans Closed Golf Championship. Must keep my competitive juices flowing.
Cute and yes. Mind you, if they are creeping about, they may use that against us.
My old neighbour, despite my condemnation of his water practices, is skilled in the art of making and setting traps, as well as disposing of the unfortunate rodents.
Interesting if not particularly enjoyable, is the generational emergence on the, I suppose, anciently travelled paths. Still get trapped, though.
I must see if I can get someone to explain to me exactly what this so-called Academic is trying to say here.
Whatever he is on, I wouldn’t mind trying sometime. It may help me to understand exactly what he is trying to achieve.
http:www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23469026-7583,00.html
Thought you were going to bed. Sleep well.
You are referring to Frank’s 212, Scorpio at your 222.
All we need to know is the orientation of the Sydney Institute.
Wild guess?
Gerard Henderson is one of the Directors – let’s just say “It’s Time” isn’t on their ipods.
Colourful, indeed, are the veils in which the dervish of oz seeks to conceal its face.
The Age has editorial has engaged with the others in the invented tripe of Rudd not visiting Japan on this tour. In fact a number of these commentators are referring to it as a Japan incident/problem or whatever, much in the way of the Carers payments invention by murdochs hacks – but there is no such problem except the beat created by the press itself in its imagination.
The press as usual imagine something, write it, it gets repeated then, they quote it back as fact, from fantasy to fact. The person writing the Age editorial has gone moronic. Not that anybody reads them. Really this is lazy journalism.
There was no issue until they made it one and, that caused Japan to say something just to shut the complaining commentators up. The nut also forgot to mention that Japan has its own domestic problems and also that it was Japan’s responsibility to call Rudd on wining the election.
These people obviously get sucked in by their own inventions and are unable to remember what was reality and beat-up.
I mean this line.. “sensitivities in the region have been exposed with the Japan incident..” is simply crap, invention. Japan incident? What incident was that fella?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/pms-world-tour-and-obligations-to-neighbours/2008/04/01/1206850908897.html
Agreed, about the carry on, Kina.
No more Mr Deputy Sheriff !
At least someone on the Age has got it.
It could be worse….we could have the American media which from my brief sampling is rabid one the conservative side and a little less so on the Liberal side…but either way most distasteful.
Qld Nats meet behind closed doors this week end to try to form the Pineapple Party.
“Mr O’Dwyer said that, if approved, the results of a plebiscite would be known within four to six weeks, in time to be ticked off by the Nationals’ state conference in July.
Then the main task would be finding a name and colours for the new party.
Most of the sessions this Saturday will be closed and a key fight is likely over the wording of the plebiscite question.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23468901-952,00.html
Meanwhile Brough is breathlessly telling the ABC that he is cutting his holidays short and rushing back to get trampled by the Santoro faction in the race for President of the Queensland Libs.
West Australian State Polling
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23470186-5006789,00.html
Doesn’t look good for the Party Troy at all, especially as they won’t be in a coalition with the Nationals at all.
Also, the article doesn’t mention the Perth to Mandurah Railway, which was opened on Dec 23rd, and is VERY successful, despite any efforts by the West to show otherwise.
Now there seems to be some doubt as to how many Liberals are now in the Queensland Parliament and how many are actually secret pineapple Party members. It’s looking more and more like the death of the Queensland Liberals is near.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23290821-32543,00.html
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/libs-urged-to-declare-their-hand/2008/04/01/1206850903009.html
more from the West.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23470185-5006789,00.html
The borg’s position.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23467845-5006786,00.html
The Queensland conservatives are getting messier by the day.
The new Pineapple party at this stage looks like being the National Party plus Steve Dickson, if he doesn’t do a backflip, back down, go back on his word, or is able to be trusted to do what he says.
The position of all the other Liberals is unclear and unstated. The Federal Liberals have had more to say than any of the State Liberals who are the ones actually affected by the formation of the Pineapple party.
Can Springborg survive if the Pineapple Party turns out to be just the National Party with a new name? Is there any point in forming a new conservative party that doesn’t include the current Liberal Members of Parliament? Can a coalition survive this process which looks like deeply dividing the conservative forces in Queensland rather than uniting them
Will the Queensland Liberals just roll over and all become members of the Pineapple Party? Interesting Times.
he Professor last night, speaking about what he thinks the ABC should be:
… which basically means the ABC as a sandwich board, and not even for hire. They have to give free time to everyone’s press releases, whether they merit it or not.
A carefully planned overseas trip by a Prime Minister, meeting heads of state, opposition contenders, lobbying the UN, carrying out important election promises, smoothing troubled waters, is trumped by the 2 of spades: some lowlife from the Opposition claims Japan is offended and therefore the whole thing is a failure, worse than that, a positive danger to international relations. Both get equal time at the head of the bulletin.
A diplomatic triumph is balanced against the ex-Foreign Minister dummy-spitting for half an hour on national radio about the good old days.
And sport, sport, sport… whenever there’s the hint of a cricket match played somewhere, above the level of local Colts, the entire day is given over to a tedious ball-by-interminable-ball description that would flake the paint off the wall with its stultifying inanity.
Native ABC political journalists are not allowed to make commentary (ever seen anyone from the ABC on Insiders?), so News Ltd. hacks are bussed in to liven things up a bit.
Well nobbled, ABC, the nation’s billboard.
So now Kev is off to Japan, the MSM will start their attack dogs on him for being out of the country at a ‘crucial time’, what’s the betting?
Steve, Anna must be rubbing her hands with glee over the state of the opposition in Qld, however it does not make for good government to have such a terminal opposition, challenging times!
Michelle Grattan gives a positive wrap to the Ruddster’s US visit:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bmichelle-grattanb/2008/04/01/1206850911106.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
I wonder if we could start a “Kevin is not doing the right thing here” media circus of our own?
I am outraged – outraged, I tell you – that Kevin is not dropping in on Israel and Palestine to fix the problem there whilst he’s in the area.
We all know that Kev is a skilled diplomat. Fixing the Israeli/Palestinian crisis would only add an extra day to his itinerary and is obviously in the interests of world peace, democracy, human rights etc etc.
He should also then be able to negotiate a successful trade deal with both parties.
But no, he’s such a sinophile (read communist sympathiser) and smarty pants (he speaks TWO languages! How unAustralian is that? Alex is allowed to because he went to a private school and speaks French, which is essential for a diplomat cos otherwise you can’t read the menus and might end up eating snails – and anyway, Alex isn’t Australian, really, he’s sort of an English lord in exile) that he’d rather spend time with the World’s fastest growing superpower than spend a day solving a genuine world problem.
As anyone from the latte drinking, chardonnay sipping, ivory tower elite knows, doing something Howard couldn’t do is big on Kevvie’s agenda. Howard also failed to solve the Israel/Palestine thing, so it’s a natural for Kev.
Over to you, Dennis.
With Japan in the bag, doubtless Kev’s next challenge by the MSM will be to castigate China re:Tibet. Even though egged on by Dubya, I hope he doesn’t.
I have been trying balance the pro “independent Tibet” hysteria raging in the MSM. Letters to Fairfax asking for China’s POV have been ignored. While no apologist for China, I am alarmed at the one-sided, utopian myths promulgated by dispossessed landlords and their hangers-on. There just seems to be no balance, no alternative viewpoint; all we hear of the Chinese is jackboots and batons. No mention of modernisation, of schools, hospitals and transport – and of land re-distribution.
My relatively superficial Internet research on “Tibet and slavery” suggests that China has done more good than harm. Any opinions?
Bushfire Bill (238) Your sarcastic statement about sport (ball by ball cricket commentary) on the ABC was completely unnecessary, and certainly not to the point of your assertion that there be ‘meritorious ‘ balance of political perspectives on the national broadcaster. If you have to indulge in your acerbic spruiking, keep it to politics. You are becoming a vexation to the spirit!
David Charles
I did not take it that way David – chill out mate.
Hey, i used to work at the ABC – independent info comes out good about it. But I kind of agree with Bushfire Bill’s comment on it – The Liberal party spent the last 10 years trying to psychological intimidate it with for the most part, false claims of bias to try and and get the journo’s to ask softer questions, when already the Liberal party are under very little scrutiny. Its become anodyne – everyone’s opinion is not of equal merit – ABC Local Radio is so low brow – there really is only Radio National now.
David Charles, not sure whether you’re serious or not, but I’ll assume serious.
The preponderance of sport on ABC radio, in particular hours and hours and hours of cricket, day after day, with little reference to the importance of the game, time of the day, position of the day within the week or relative to surrounding events (like elections), and to the detriment of straight news, political reporting and public affairs – for gawd’s sake even traffic reports – is truly awful.
There should be a Sports ABC radio network. A tiny (although not non-existant) proportion of listeners are interested in listening to droning descriptions of box-adjusting, sledging and the padding-away of balls to mid-off. A special Sports network would service them perfectly.
However, if you don’t want the ABC to report real news, then running cricket in the place of normal programming (rather than as an alternative to it, on another station) is a perfect way to accomplish that. You cut budgets back. Your news reporters become stenographers. Sport, because it’s cheap, takes over.
A Sports Channel for the ABC is a must.
Howards foreign policy adviser trying to undermine Rudd.
Our foreign policy should focus on ends, not means
To secure strong community support for the Security Council bid, the Government needs to tell us how much that major diplomatic effort will cost, how it will be funded, and how Australians will benefit.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/02/2205555.htm
Apart from obviously advising Howard to have no foreign policy except to ring George and Dick since when has a government needed to ’secure strong community support..’ for these things when the community haven’t the slightest understanding of most foreign policy issues and their complexities. The guy seems to be still flying the Howard flag of dissing the Security Council.
We know Howard supported Bush in every way especially on unilateral military action….attack Iraq, Iran, Syria. Woops, got stuck in Iraq.
I’m not sure I can respond directly to this issue, but I was slightly surprised to discover more of the history of China and Tibet. It seems that Tibet has never been a recognised independent country, and was only really autonomous between 1912 and 1950. I’m not sure where that leaves us in terms of supporting a secessionist movement or not.
BB and Bird, I agree with what you say about the ABC. There are still good programmes on RN, especially AM, PM, Health Report, Religion Report (interesting even to an atheist!), etc. But I can’t distinguish ABC Local Radio from the commercials any more, and find it mostly uninformed twaddle. When RN has something on that I don’t want to listen to I turn to ABC News Radio which often has good feeds from sites such as Radio Netherlands. I’m not remotely interested in sport but don’t find RN overloaded with sports reports except that sometimes I question why a sports-related news item is accorded more importance than a more meaty political or international one. As BB has eloquently demonstrated, the quality of reporting in ABC radio and TV news is quite poor as reporters seem to have lost the capacity to critically engage with ideas and opinion. A separate ABC Sports radio channel would be good, though I’m not sure (given the poor quality of ABC local radio) that what replaces it would be much better.
Bushfire Bill
Just as Beethoven thought music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy, it is possible that there are many in the community who think sport is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy on public affairs, and maybe the ABC understands that. Any of your ruminations on ball by ball cricket commentary or on anything else on the ABC other than its coverage of ’straight news, political reporting and public affairs’, were not to the substantial point of your original post. That is self evident so I am now wondering whether your remarks were serious. Cheers.
Another noncore Liberal promise and classic piece of pork barreling has been dumped.
“The federal government has cancelled the contract for Optus and Elders to build a WiMAX broadband network, the companies say.
Futuris Corporation, which owns Elders, and Singapore Telecommunications, Optus’s parent, both told the Australian Stock Exchange of the cancellation of the contract this morning.
Futuris and Optus, in an equal partnership called OPEL, were awarded $958 million by the Howard government to construct a broadband network for rural and regional Australia.
According to the companies’ statements to the stock exchange, the Rudd government says it has cancelled the contract because of an assessment that the implementation plan does not meet prescribed coverage requirements.”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/govt-cancels-1-billion-broadband-contract/2008/04/02/1206850954658.html
A good article:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23469022-5013578,00.html
An even better one here, JoM, it hasn’t got a Right wing twist in its tail.
http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/a-quick-addition-to-housing-affordability/
252
John of Melbourne
Any thoughts on why the article concluded with this shot?:
“The Rudd Government will, of course, fix all this, won’t it?”
Speaking of Tibet…I would not be climbing on my tall horse demanding the succession from China…one day the west will have to take a good look at itself…when it is ashes!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo
David, what I write in my posts is my business, is it not? Or are you suddenly the site administrator?
The preponderance of sport on ABC radio during otherwise normal weekdays is a disgrace. I readily concede that many people love sport and enjoy ball-by-bloody-ball descriptions. This is a good case for a separate sports network. The ruminations of Pommy commentators on the finer points of Sri Lankan leg side batting theory deserve a network all to themselves, so that the rest of the country can remain informed and entertained with normal programming. If I remember correctly, there was a broadcast of test cricket in the final days before the election, taking out all ABC current affairs coverage of that election for several days. Truly awful performance.
Don’t try the “some people like sport” pseudo-man-of-the-people bizzo on me, Charles. I understand sport is liked by some, let them have it all to themselves.
Ogmios -
This is interesting and quite believable…the media if lacking video or photos..simply borrow them from some other Asian looking country with Buddhists.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas&NR=1
This is quite interesting…and you will recognise the narrator/presentor..from that B/S buster show.
He does make the point that when the Dalai Lamas ruled it was an opulent aristocracy with an oppressed peasantry. The history has only been romanticised after the event, maybe.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=J1O-eLmAA8Y
Would be nice to know that actual historical truth of the matter without the politics and preconceptions.
This doesn’t in anyway excuse the methods China uses to ‘crack down’ on whatever it is they ‘crack-down’ on.
Kina…pretty damning stuff I reckon.
I just don’t understand the intent of the media or am I naive on this?
China in my opinion will be the next super power and they have long memories.
I suppose the west has reason to fear this, but fooling the populations will be our downfall!
And speaking of the ABC…Lateline was going to run a line of questioning to both candidates at the last election in respect to something I have put together, but it got canned due to pressure…not good.
Thanks Bushfire Bill (256). The particular observations I made in prior posts are fair and reasonable. Although I am not ‘a pseudo-man-of-the people’, I am sensitive enough to recognise that you did like my criticism of your earlier posts. For what it is worth, then, I accept that your substantial point about ‘meritorious’ perspectives of politics on the ABC, was well argued.
ogimos
What was the reasoning they gave to canning your stuff…also, what was the topic you were putting forward
Bird…they never gave a reason, they just said they were going to go with it and didn’t.
No skin off my nose though…my point is that the producers do answer to higher powers that constrain their judgement.
but what was the area it was about?
Infrastructure and housing.
interesting, is that what you work in as a job?
No, not really…more like construction project management and native rehabilitation.
I would just like to address a few issues you raised, Bushfire Bill at 256:
Firstly, no-one likes listening to Peter Roebuck. You’re not alone there.
Secondly, I would dispute your assertion that “there was a broadcast of test cricket in the final days before the election, taking out all ABC current affairs coverage of that election for several days.”
It is true that test cricket coverage does take up a large amount of time during the day for the duration of the match. However, as far as I am aware, this coverage only takes place on Local ABC Radio. It has already been discussed that the quality of Local ABC Radio leaves much to be desired in terms of current affairs coverage. The cricket coverage did not interrupt coverage of the election on ABC News Radio or Radio National, as far as I know.
I guess that’s my main point: ABC cricket coverage interrupts ABC Local Radio, leaving the more meaty stations, News Radio and Radio National, to continue their excellent programmes.
Oh, and I’m pretty sure we only get international cricket games covered on ABC Local Radio, as opposed to “the hint of a cricket match played somewhere, above the level of local Colts.”
Regards.
Dangerous @ 248 -
It seems that Tibet has never been a recognised independent country, and was only really autonomous between 1912 and 1950.
That is Chinese propaganda. The truth is much different. I won’t bore everyone with a long diabtribe on that is OT here when there are many reputable sources on the web.
China has no more right to Tibet than Israel has to Palestine, or Indonesia to West Papua. If only someone would find oil in all three!
MayoFeral,
Please do bore us with “the truth”. And please give us your “reputable sources on the web”.
“Tibet’s GDP in 2001 was 13.9 billion yuan (USD1.8billion). The Central government exempts Tibet from all taxation and provides 90% of Tibet’s government expenditures.”
“In recent years, due to the increased interest in Tibetan Buddhism, tourism has become an increasingly important sector, and is actively promoted by the authorities. The Tibetan economy is heavily subsidized by the Central government and government cadres receive the second-highest salaries in China.”
One wonders how they would survive with independence if they lost Chinese funding. They will require assistance from somewhere.
OK and some more issues to consider:
“In January of 2007, the Chinese government issued a report outlining the discovery of a large mineral deposit under the Tibetan Plateau.[123] The deposit has an estimated value of $128 billion and may double Chinese reserves of zinc, copper, and lead. China sees this as a way to alleviate the country’s dependence on foreign mineral imports necessary for its growing economy. However, critics worry that mining these vast resources will harm Tibet’s fragile ecosystem as well take valuable resources away from the Tibetan people.”
Kina @ 270 – You could ask the same question of Timor Leste. If anything it is even more impoverished, which is not helped by where Howard drew our international border. Not sure what Labor’s position is on that, but I hope it’s something the government will revisit.
To change the subject seems Shamyman is set to help lose Nelson an election too.
“it says something important about Brendan Nelson that his themes are confected for him by The Australian’s columnists. It also says something important about him that he’s apparently blind to the toxicity of the Howard legacy on industrial relations, believing that a bit of pr can magic it into a pleasing package (again, those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it). Has he noticed that the mob he’s apparently outsourced political messaging and strategy to are the same crew who spent most of last year expecting a resounding victory for Howard?”
http://www.newmatilda.com/polliegraph/?p=266#more-266
Why draw the conversation away, MayoFeral? Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of being bombarded with all these shocking ‘facts’ and so called ‘truths’ from all the self-respected, sticky beaked little cretins like you.
Take a step back, look both ways, then make your judgement. At least look at the facts and truths from both sides, Tibetans and Chinese.
Once done that, feel free to bander on about the damned Chinese propaganda, and their shameful actions in claiming their own part of their own country.
Cheers.
lol…cmon KieraNoilii…
tell him what you REALLY think
Oh, my, seems I’ve gone and upset the wrong people. Please give my regards to Mr Zhang Junsai, KieraNoilii.
If life is so great under the Chinese, why don’t the Tibetans seem to be very happy about it?
KieraNoilii. I’d suggest that if you have some insights, information to offer or other contribution to make on the subject of Tibet and China, that most here would be interested to listen. Just abusing someone is generally regarded as a waste of space. Frankly, I’d be most interested to hear from anyone with some actual knowledge, as it’s a long time since I formally studied history, particularly Asian history, and I haven’t really kept up, you see, being a bit preoccupied with other things.
Take a step back, look both ways, then make your judgement. At least look at the facts and truths from both sides, Tibetans and Chinese.
Ostensibly, this is a reasonable request, and one that we are asked to perform all the time when it comes to Western atrocities. The Oz article cited above asks for much the same sort of ‘balance’ from the ABC. It is a similar advocacy of ‘balance’ that sees fringe viewpoints such as creationism, demanding equal time in schools, and that reports the deaths of Palestinians with only a couple of IDF soundbites.
Clearly, the Chinese regime is brutal, and has plenty of history in this regard. Few people would doubt this. It is the double-standard between China and the ‘humanitarian’ West that is interesting.
Actually, dredging up some stuff lodged in my brain in relation to the fluidity of borders between what is fondly referred to as the East and West, when interaction, mostly trade, was confined to the physical, along the Silk Route on land, that’s where the most volatile borders or boundaries were/are, for example, all the “istans”. As I understand it, and please correct me if I’m barking up the wrong geographic tree, but I think the Tibetan plateau was/is not exactly a through route to anywhere really. Whether local ethnic groupings in that area considered themselves to be part of a wider community, I’ve no idea. The dominant government in China, over the centuries, may well have considered these peoples to be part of their Empire. Whether or not any of this applies today is anyone’s guess.
As far as contributing is corncerned, Mr. Snapper sir, I think I’ve sang my solo. You know where I stand on this issue (dare I be in the right or wrong). For information, you never have to go far. Open your eyes a little wider, breathe in what you already know and fish around for more knowledge – past and present. You’ve got books from the library on Tibet and the Chinese, the web and other people’s opinions to take in your hand. Why, even by scrolling up on this page, can we get valuable information.
The one snitch? You have to be willing to learn.
What I’ve learnt is that the Chinese have done a lot more good for Tibet, than bad (not saying the chinese are saint by the way). Schools, transport, all the other what not.
But don’t take my word for it, for god’s sake. Look it up.
On a lighter note it reminds me of ‘What have Romans ever done for us?’
Federal Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson says people in regional areas will suffer because of the Government’s decision to scrap a $1 billion OPEL contract for the creation of a broadband network for regional Australia.
“The average hardworking Australian taxpayer that’s struggling with petrol and groceries and increasing interest rates on their homes would have have to ask themselves why they have to spend billions of dollars more, when we already had a solution in place,” he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/02/2206412.htm?section=justin
Dear Dr. It was a crap solution, cobbled together by Helen Coonan and The Singapore Govt. Shame it would not work, which every communications “expert” was telling you. Hills and rain tend to make wireless – broadband-less.
Conroy has done the right thing and saved “The average hardworking Australian taxpayer that’s struggling with petrol and groceries and increasing interest rates” a billion bucks that would have been pissed up against the wall.
The following is a precis of a few sources I have used to read up on Tibet (no, not just Wikipedia), plus a few random thoughts of my own on Tibet:
Tibet seems to have been always mixed up in the Western mind with Shangri La, the myth of an Earthly paradise, even though “Shangri La” is a concoction by a novelist, James Hilton who wrote Lost Horizon in 1933. The idea of a “lost community” in a lost Himalayan valley, a repository of wisdom and truth against the threat of imminent 1930’s Fascist catastrophe had an almost irresistable appeal to a troubled world. This has certainly been my take on Tibet: a sort of paradise where only goodness and truth ruled.
“Shangri La” appears to be a derivative of “Shambala”, the 15th century European name for Tibet. Western explorers, setting out from India sought to find the mythical land. At first these were Portugese Jesuit missionairies setting out from the Goa region. The first of these to see Tibet was Antonio Andrade, in the early 1600s. Interestingly, the English translation of his journals was not published until not long before Hilton wrote Lost Horizon, and may have been informative of the novel.
Chinese influence and hegemony over Tibet began around the time that Andrade was making the first Western visit to Tibet. By the 1700s China was installing the Dalai Lama as a political leader over the region. But it’s hard to pinpoint any definite timeline regarding Tibet. It seems to have been an area that was a prize for Mongols, Chinese and missionairies… anybody who cared to arrive with an army and a determination to subjugate its people (for whatever reason). Until 1911 China ruled, and then Tibet declared independence. One gets the feeling that the Chinese had other, more pressing, matters on hand at the time.
However, in 1951, after Mao sorted out Chang Kai Shek, the Red Chinese reasserted their sovreignty over Tibet. This is the nub of the disagreement to the present day.
From my reading, Tibet has always been a place without nationhood. In some respects the phrase “without nationhood” elicits the notion – albeit a relatively recent one – of Shangri La. The Dalai Lama, clearly a good bloke, is selected by some sort of divine intercession as the spiritual and temporal leader of the Tibetan people. However, I am not religious and I don’t believe in divinities, much less divine intercession. Perhaps, in my own mind, there is some regret that I cannot come to terms witht the concept of “God”.
But nevertheless, I am drawn to the Dalai Lama as a human being. Who wouldn’t be? Maybe it’s because he really is an intelligent, folksy, cruisey dude, and maybe there’s a bit of the old hippy in me that puts it all together.
Whether or not Tibet is a viable nation, that could trade and be self-supporting is, to my mind, highly doubtful. I feel for the people there who are faced with being buried by a Chinese tide. Why China is interested in Tibet, I don’t know. Maybe there’s valuable mineral wealth in its unexplored mountain ranges. Maybe China wants a buffer against India. Maybe it’s just a centuries old tradition that China rules Tibet, and too bloody bad if you don’t like it.
Whatever the situation, the Western concept of Shangri La dies hard. The idea that a perfect people, led by a leader chosen by the divinity is a hard one to let go. The Dalai Lama’s own personality seems too good to be true. Is this all there is to it? Maybe that’s enough for the 50-something politicians of the West, hankering for the old days, lost but perhaps able to be regained, of simplicity and innocence.
Rudd, a Sinophile by all accounts, is in a delicate position. He travels to China just at the time that tensions are at a periodic high over Tibet. Combine this with the imminence of the Olympic Games – with boycott now on the table – and you have a potential powderkeg for the fledgling Prime Minister. It will be a delicate path for him to tread. According to some accounts, he carries a message from America to lay off Tibet. If this is true, it is an unambiguous honour for the boy PM. Whether he can pull of some kind of detente, however, is highly problematic. Whether he should is an entirely different question.
We shouldn’t underestimate the importance of Tibet as related to the Games and hence, to China. I think Rudd will probably understand this and will tread the path lightly. It seems he scored a bunch of brownie points at the APEC meeting by the simple expedience of speak Mandarin. Rudd literally “speaks their language”. Howard’s attitude to China was that there were a few Chinese in Bennelong who might vote for him and that Chinese food was “very tasty”: hardly an open invite to the inner sanctum of the Chinese demographic mind. The beneficiary of China’s attention, from that point on, was pretty easy to predict. Kevin Rudd is “Da Man”.
Critics who lambast Rudd for ignoring Japan neglect the obvious point that while Japan may be our largest trading partner for now, China is clearly going to be the trading partner of the future, followed by India, between whom lies Tibet. Those who say Rudd should have rung the Japanese PM when shit like Tibet is going down are essentially speaking about the past, not the future (and please let’s put aside who should have rung whom).
Rudd is walking in green fields. The future is open to whomever grasps its potential. Tibet, perhaps sadly, is not our main concern.
There never was a Shangri La.
It seems Bertie Ahern, Irish PM, is going to resign amid corruption allegations on May 6th.
KieraNoilii, As I understand it, the person known to his mum as William Bowe, has provided a site that offers the opportunity for learning about all things psephological, and a good deal more, if you take the time. Information exchange is a part of it. You may choose to make only one or two postings, which is fine. Goodness knows, we’ve all got other things to do. As I intimated in my previous posting, other occupations mostly take my time. It’s not that I, or indeed others, might be unwilling to research particluar topics, but a lack of time. So, maybe, learning with whom you are dealing might be useful for further dialogue?
And you forgot Strong Easterly Winds also cause Wireless not to work.
Good move by Conroy.
284
BB – I’ve often observed (to myself, for fear of being avoided by the more virtuous) that the Dalai Lama is a kind of sacred cow – it seems to be automatically assumed that he is a font of all wisdom and unquestionably good.
I remember walking around a school art room a few years ago, which was plastered (presumably by the art teacher) with some of his pithy sayings, and thinking (to myself again, for the reasons outlined above) that they were all a bit wishy washy really.
(Part of the ‘Tibetan problem’ as I understand it at present is in fact that a significant number of young Tibetans feel that the DL’s approach to life isn’t working).
I will also add some personal observations, as someone whose family lives in one of the former Soviet countries.
Although my grandparents, aunts and uncles all did the respectable ‘done’ thing and railed against the Russians, they undoubtedly received better health care and education and thus lived longer lives than they would have had their countries remained independent.
A few years after they regained their freedom, the constant requests for money we used to get from them were replaced by requests for food parcels and basic medicines. One of my aunts wrote wistfully “I suppose it’s good being free, but before we had enough to eat.”
Virtually none of my family live in that country now, but have moved to places like Spain where they can get work – ‘independence’ has meant depopulation.
So I’m very mixed about poor countries ‘yearning to be free’ of the yoke of bigger ones – as with most things in the world, it’s a lot more complicated than the slogans would have you believe.
Howard’s attitude to China was that there were a few Chinese in Bennelong who might vote for him and that Chinese food was “very tasty”:
It’s minutiae, but I read somewhere that Howard always refused to eat Chinese food.
Bushfire B. Yes, that romanticism of Shangri-la is interesting in relation to Tibet, but I think the fluidity of borders between the East and West is an equally interesting concept, particularly if you think about it in relation to the disparities between how local groupings of peoples (clans, tribes, etc.) vs. Empires’ views of who belonges/d to them.
I’m buggered if I know how you reconcile the various views around these days about China and Tibet.
As I’m equally buggered about how you reconcile Israel and Palestine.
And I don’t think I’m alone.
Zoom. Interesting observation. It all starts to get a bit Pythonesque after a while, it seems.
It is in Bushfire Bill family folklore that on the occasion of his first visit to China to meet whoever-was-premier-then, Howard leaned over to his el-Supremo Beijing host and said, “This Chinese food is very tasty”. There was ABC video of the occasion, with the sound from Howard’s lips artificially amplified and filtered to isolate the words, but those were his utterances, as far as my memory is concerned.
Jeanette was tucking into chicken and sweet corn soup at the time, also from memory.
Then again, he may have been briefed by his minders to say that to avoid an international incident by not offending his hosts.
“young Tibetans feel that the DL’s approach to life isn’t working”
Don’t know why they feel that way, the Dalai Lama travels first class, stays in the best hotels and people pays thousands to hear him speak of the simple life, a bit like Paris Hilton, except he is male, a bit older and doesn’t have as much hair.
I reckon he has a great approach to life.
Bushfire Bill – the problem with taking the pragmatic view is that it often the eventual cost is far greater than the gain.
We went along with the pragmatic view of Palestine and the result has been 60 years of misery that has cost untold lives, included some of us, and will cost many, many more.
We took the pragmatic view on T!bet and are allowing a people to wither at a cost yet to be determined.
We took the pragmatic view on Timor and did nothing while 250,000 people died because trade and good relations with Indonesia were of greater import. It has ended up costing us a few lives and a considerable amount of treasure, perhaps more than we made by our indifference, and its not over yet.
We continue to take the pragmatic view on West Papua in a repeat of history.
But will we be quite so sanguine if, or is it when, a more powerful entity decides it wants our land claiming prior rights. These may even contain an element of fact given historical trading links, perhaps enough to allow other pragmatists to shrug their shoulders at our plight without over troubling their consciences.
With the upheavals that climate change may bring that day could come sooner than later. Most scenerios I’ve seen suggest that CC will force a movement of peoples to higher latitutes and in our region they’ll have only one place to go!
This peeves me, greatly.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/02/2206430.htm
bugger: scenarios not scenerios
The Member for Charters Towers is my idea of a good Leader of the Queensland Nats if the Borg’s Pineapple Party goes belly up or fails to get off the ground. So far Shane Knuth has declared war on feral Pigs, flying foxes, dingoes and cane toads. His solution is usually a larger bounty for shooting or some sort of mass eradication. The similarity in style between Shane Knuth and Bjelke Petersen is enormous. I can not see one trait Joh had that is not common to Shane.
Occasionally, when feeling overworked he pines for a holiday at the Cleveland Youth Detention Centre at Townsville. He is one of the harder working and smarter of the Qld Nats with huge leadership potential should the Borg fail for a third time at the next election or the Liberals decline his amalgamation offer.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23472082-952,00.html
284…BB
When one learns to speak the language, one learns insight…I believe the world is in the first phase of the shift in power and influence…India will be a major trading partner in less than twelve years.
Food will be the next boom.
Frank Calabrese (and William)
Of recent interest, as it happens. Lateline Business addressed the Kerry Stokes and WA Newspaper issues.
Apparently Kerry S unhappy with the loss of focus, away from the reader (purchaser, I assume)
Cannot report fully, my TV ariel is a little wobbly, thus transmission is interrupted, in the high winds. I think.
Thank you CW, I will watch it for a change.
Crikey,
This was covered in depth on all Media outlets, but predictably not on the online version of The West.
Rport is here.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23471862-7582,00.html
Transcript of Speech:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/stokesspeech.pdf
THe West’s Response:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/02/2206363.htm?section=justin
Oh, Frank, William.
Had been diverted by work, gasp, so apologies if my info is a little ancient.
Just listened to Tomorrow’s News, with a special ear to WA.
Nothing whatsoever about the topic in question.
Assume you would not be surprised.
And The West has only the AAP story on the speech.
http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.aspx?StoryName=472258
Since it’s The West we’re talking about – no. Most likely they’ll hide it in the Business Section and will give Page one some sort of Laura Norder item, or the latest gossip involving Brian Burke – who ironically is in Paul Armstrong’s pockets so to speak.
WAN
“The ASA has recommended shareholders vote against the election of Mr Stokes and Seven director Peter Gammell, adding that undirected proxies would be voted against all resolutions at the meeting.
It’s believed institutional corporate governance and proxy adviser CGI Glass Lewis has recommended to its clients to do the same.
Mr Stokes requested an extraordinary meeting to have WAN’s four non-executive directors removed and himself and Mr Gammell elected.
The four directors have vowed to resign if the pair are elected, saying Mr Stokes is trying to take control of the company without paying a takeover premium and citing conflict of interest concerns.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23475236-3122,00.html
Now another Howard Government identity who lost his seat at the last Federal election wants to be President of the Queensland liberals. He currently is the Liberal policy advisor to National Opposition Leader Springborg and both want to see the Pineapple Party created.
“FORMER federal MP Cameron Thompson will confront the Liberal Party factions by standing for the party’s Queensland presidency on a promise to arrange a merger with the Nationals.
Mr Thompson told The Australian yesterday that conservative politics in Queensland was doomed without a merger but Liberal factions were united in opposing the merger plan because they were more interested in maintaining control of “an ever-decreasing dunghill” than in winning government.
His comments came as another former Howard government MP, Warren Entsch, said Queensland’s conservative political scene was “cancerous”.
Queensland Nationals leader Lawrence Springborg has been campaigning for a merger as the only way for the Liberals and Nationals to be competitive in Queensland, following a string of state election defeats marked by disunity and policy differences. ”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23475206-5006786,00.html
I think the ABC news just said that Thompson has resigned from his job with Sringborg to try to win the Liberal Presidency.
I am surprised that posters continue to express suprise at the OO and Shameaham in particular spinning things the conservatives way. The supposed Japan rift followed by Rudd healing it (front page yesterday) were an absolute beat up and laughable
Cant we just ignore the OO??
309
Andrew
I’m with you Andrew. We can ignore and I do. I’m feeling so much better since I stopped reading the opinion pieces at the OO. I still read the latest news items as they are often quicker off the mark than the ABC site.
The Opposition Liberal Orifice taking on the role of shadow Liberal party has been noticed elsewhere.
As per my earlier post Mark Bahnisch summarises it well:
“it says something important about Brendan Nelson that his themes are confected for him by The Australian’s columnists. It also says something important about him that he’s apparently blind to the toxicity of the Howard legacy on industrial relations, believing that a bit of pr can magic it into a pleasing package (again, those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat it). Has he noticed that the mob he’s apparently outsourced political messaging and strategy to are the same crew who spent most of last year expecting a resounding victory for Howard?”
http://www.newmatilda.com/polliegraph/?p=266#more-266
I don’t bother with the OO and won’t click on the links people post here unless they actually give a clue to what it is about.
Nightwatchman give the grog and the tour away immediately, it’s driving you mad. People this young aren’t allowed to drive around in Queensland. I think two days of the Listening Tour is more than enough!
” but you’ve just got to spend a bit of time at the Lowood service station to see Australians coming in with their cars – 10, 12, 15 years old – putting $5, $7 or $30 worth of petrol in the tank. ”
http://www.liberal.org.au/Shadow%20Ministry/Brendan%20Nelson/index.php%20#3
steve
plus the
“I’ve had a number of people, not only in aged care facilities but also the facilities themselves and the operators who are very concerned about what the Government’s going to do with aged care funding in the Budget.
And again, like the carers and disabilities issue for which I was thanked by people who are desperately in need on that lump sum carers payment, the providers are very concerned about what the Government’s going to do in the Budget for the funding of the care of our nursing home residents.
Brendan Nelson ”
Will this beatup grow legs?
Perth Now and it’s parent publication The Sunday Times have already started the ball rolling last Sunday, as mentioned in an earlier thread.
Nationals Happy to see Liberal party die.
Robert Menzies created th Liberal party, Howard destroyed it. John Stone considers Howard Australia’s best prime minister.
http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/john-howards-legacy/#comment-46162
Steve
I had a look at your link in 312 to Nelson’s speaking tour.
First off, I thought Speers did not go easy on him, contrary to other posts that paint Speers as a lib man.
Second, after reading through the interviews on the site I was struck by how very much like Max Gilles he is, has someone hacked the site?
Rudd should ignore this stuff and simply debunk it and come over the top of it at budget time. To engage in debate is to give it legs.
On what grounds is Howard Australia’s best PM? You cannot use economic because that has already been debunked and in fact he would come out a large negative on that [ask Costello]. You couldn’t use human rights or freedom of speech or transparency of government.
The only think could be longevity of tenure and willinginess to be threatening to dissenters.
The arguments for Howard being our worst PM are probably much stronger given the changing world and challenges we are to face but previously ignored.
Stokes not happy with the WAN.
http://business.brisbanetimes.com.au/dont-put-stokes-on-board-of-west-australian-asa/20080403-2391.html
And here is WAN’s response
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23477783-2761,00.html
Stokes ponders starting second WA paper
Seven Network chief Kerry Stokes has flagged starting a second newspaper in Western Australia with billionaire mining magnate Andrew Forrest, if his move on the West Australian Newspaper Holdings (WAN) board fails.
http://news.smh.com.au/stokes-ponders-starting-second-wa-paper/20080403-23eq.html
Oh Dear, Malcolm Turnbull thinks that the Springborg Pineapple Party will have less electoral prospects than a coalition.
“Federal Liberal MP Malcolm Turnbull says he is worried a new Queensland conservative party would end up receiving less votes than the current Coalition.
The National Party is expected to put a plebiscite to its members on a merge with the Liberals after this weekend’s state council meeting.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/03/2206970.htm
So Nelson kind of puts his leadership on the line as a pro-amalgamation type, now Turnbull thinks its a bad idea. Nelson thinks it should be handled at a Federal level – Turnbull thinks it is a matter for the states.
This is so much fun.
Todays Akerman blog re “Fraser has blood on his hands” over Zimbabwe was pretty disgusting–I ain’t going there no more!
Got a form email replaying to my email to Insiders re Akerman, replied to that with reference to todays disgusting blog, and added that PM Rudd will not appear on Insiders while Akerman appears there.
It is pretty bad!
Pies is getting more and more shrill – maybe relevance deprivation syndrome? The only link I can see between Fraser and Mugabe is CHOGM.
Went for a flight the other day on Jetstar and noted you now get a free copy of the Australian. I wonder what percentage of their circulation that is. Things must be getting pretty bad.
“A Federal Labor backbencher, Jodie Campbell, has been fined for two driving offences.
The member for Bass in northern Tasmania has admitted one count of driving when she was not the holder of a driver’s licence, and one count of contravening vehicle standards.
Ms Campbell says her licence had expired and she had forgotten to renew it and she had a faulty brake light.
Last year, Ms Campbell was convicted of drink-driving and using an unregistered vehicle.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/03/2207450.htm?section=justin
Er oops ABC not true:
“Also last year Ms Campbell was charged with driving an unregistered Volkswagon Hatch vehicle in February 2007 but pleaded not guilty.
The charge was adjourned sine die and reissued in the name of her former husband Jason John Campbell.
Police offered no evidence when the count came before the court in January, 2008 and the charge was dismissed.”
http://www.news.com.au/mercury/story/0,22884,23478145-3462,00.html
I have worked out the Oppositions new tactic. Find out what Rudd is doing then say that Rudd should do that and hoping that someone might think Rudd is following their ideas. Nelson wants Rudd to be leader of the opposition as well as government. No wonder they have subcontracted the Opposition role to the OO.
About now is the time that a current account deficit will come into play. Whatever came of the debt truck? Did it happen to do anything to get the Current Account Deficit down over the past twelve years?
“The chief currency strategist at Westpac, Robert Rennie, said currency markets were increasingly wary of economies with current account deficits.”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/business/aussie-banks-find-it-harder-to-borrow/2008/04/03/1206851050615.html
Kina
I think Dr. B has been given Hawker-Britten’s strategy for the last election, all he seems to talk about is petrol and grocery prices.
Has anyone heard Nightwatchman comment on the ACCC enquiry into grocery prices?
Now that Labor is back in power , the conservative finance writers will recommence the current account deficit problem articles. Strange how it disappeared from comment during Howard years even though its gone up by about 360 billion since 1996.
330 ruawake, sad to find that the answer is zero.
http://www.brendannelson.com.au/Pages/Search.aspx
steve
It did turn up this gem from 2002.
“The Labor Party’s priority is dentists, lawyers, doctors and people leaving university with $30,000 worth of debt”.
The Nighwatchman admits that even in 2002 Labor were worried about the numbers of Doctors and Dentists
$30,000 debt try $150,000
I did find the reason why there has been no comment from Nelson. Poison Dwarf has been skiting that Nelson is banking on the grocery Price Inquiry being unable to come up with anything that will have an influence on grocery prices and send them cheaper. Milne’s advice to Nelson was just hang around and when there is no decrease in grocery prices then leap on Rudd and attack him. Nelson should know better than to trust the advice of the OO, look how much damage it did them last year.
ruawake,
Without commenting on whether it’s worth a newspaper column at this stage (?), I do seem to recall that Fraser was a pretty big booster of Mugabe in the early 80s.
More than just being photographed together at CHOGM…
ruawake, the Dwarf even went so far as logging the petrol price, interest rates and grocery prices the day after the election just so he can say, I told you so.
So obviously it is the OO who really thinks it is the Opposition and that could be part of the reason why Nelsons PPM figures have been so woeful. People can’t see if Nelson is doing anything because the OO has usurped his role in the political process.
OO hacks strategising for the Liberal Party….bwahahahaha
I mean these guys are not even smart. Their great achievements last year were Burkegate and Scoresgate. This year they have excelled themselves with plastic-bag-gate and fake-Carer-gate.
They will never win government on the back of dissing Rudd and Labor. But I suspect this is all a strategy to boost Nelson’s personal popularity so as to save the right-wing of the party and, keep those nasty moderates out of the picture.
I have an idea…why don’t they develop some credible policy platforms instead?
Dyno
So was Margaret Thatcher at the Lancaster House Agreement.
To say Fraser has blood on his hands is absurd.
Kina
“I have an idea…why don’t they develop some credible policy platforms instead?”
Because half will agree, the other half will disagree. They will say that this is an organisational issue and refer it to the party conference.
Then someone like Steve Dickson will say ‘I think there are many members of the Liberal Party who believe individual members should have that right, regardless of what the party’s constitution says.”
They are split right down the middle and its about time they stopped playing silly buggers – split or amalgamate I don’t care – just do something.
ruawake,
Quite so.
It’s Mugabe who has the blood on his hands. Couldn’t agree more.
The Oz has pretty low circulation, not that many people read it.
Pollbludgers of a Labor persuasion are really getting upset about nothing much if they are going to let the Oz spoil their fun at the moment.
Actually, John Howard is the one with blood on his hands;
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/504 and for a further “link” between Howard and Mugabe see ,a href=”http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/howard-is-just-like-mugabe/2007/05/24/1179601522501.html”> http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/howard-is-just-like-mugabe/2007/05/24/1179601522501.html
Tom
Kicking goals, getting points on the board…..
http://news.theage.com.au/france-to-back-australia-on-un-bid/20080403-23a7.html
The French are pretty good at getting a deal that suits them, or the deal’s off; so what do you reckon we’ve got to give up? Or is the Ruddster’s China link that valuable?
tom @342
re this part of that article
“Amnesty secretary-general Irene Khan said the fear generated by leaders such as Mr Howard “thrives on myopic and cowardly leadership”.
she sure got Ratty down to a T didn’t she.
Heat and pressure building in WAN story.
During his half-hour speech, Mr Stokes also attacked The West’s $210 million printing press upgrade.
“It is probably seriously the worst planned and laid out press hall I have seen in all the press halls I have been to,” he said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23474288-5006789,00.html
Oh Dear, The Listening Tour is turning into a PR nightmare for the Nightwatchman. He has lost the plot totally.
BRENDAN Nelson has a message for families being evicted from their houses and having their homes repossessed: Spare a thought for the people who are evicting you.
While many Australians are in shock about the prospect of rising interest rates costing them their home, the Liberal leader said it was just as tough for the banks.
Addressing a corporate luncheon of bankers in Sydney yesterday, Dr Nelson said people should stop criticising banks and they should be encouraged to make profits.
He said that while it was tough for families to lose their homes, it was also hard on the people evicting them.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23475450-5001021,00.html
How is the Liberal party ever going to settle on a policy platform if they are split down the centre?
Loved this description of Nelson on Blogocracy.
{It already seems that he is only listening with one ear – connected directly to his mouth and routed via the 1300-1400 grams of brylcreamed cat food he calls a brain. [
I hope he/she has taken out copywrite on that.
Andrew Landeryou hears Peter McGauran might pull the plug tomorrow:
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/04/finally-mcgauran-to-announce-departure.html
346
I reckon this has real legs.
He’s stuffed. Did he think there was no-one listening?
Nelson was trying to sympathise with the bank staffers in particular that have to do the selling up. Yes it is stressful and hard to face someone whose life you are about to ruin but, there is no comparison. The banker has a tough day, the one who has lost their home a tough life in front of them.
Nelson as usual has made inappropriate choices and you can bet you will hear this one in parliament in addition to Turnbull’s fantasy inflation.
Sounds suspiciously like his response to the Apology – another case of Foot in Mouth.
I have no intention of affording Shanahan a click. I will talk though on Michelle
Grattan’s response to Fran, on Breakfast, this morning.
As best I recall. Not verbatim.
Fran. Introduces from the point of view of no less a commentator than Dennis Shanahan. Topic being journalists attending on the PM’s travels.
The point Fran seemed to want to make was that the journalists were suffering. Not in the same place at the same time. That a laid on RAAF plane, courtesy the PM, put them at a greater inconvenience than booking, hopping, whatever, on commercial flights.
Fran chose to describe the RAAF plane on which our journalists are travelling, courtesy the PM, as ‘Reptile One’. Now where did she get that description? And the gall to repeat it, without qualification and without critique?
For whom does the ABC imagine it works? I do happen to think it is for me.
The Breakfast producers should note this, before the program is entirely deserted by its listeners.
Most other ABC programs are at pains to explain to the listener. May I quote, for example, Ramona Koval explaining, delicately, the meaning of ‘WTF.’
Fran’s discussion, if it could be called that, was quite correctly brought into line, courtesy Michelle Grattan, who is increasingly pivotal in restoring balance. And managed to take the discussion on a path which made some sense.
Leaving Fran off the hook, for which Fran was no doubt pleased. Beats thinking.
Michelle went on to say, (I do hope I do not misrepresent) her perception of the difference between this mode of transport and that of the last Howard years, which for journalists became evermore difficult, if not impossible, to obtain any sense of where they would or should be journeying, let alone any briefing.
Though Michelle could have mentioned that, earlier than now.
Astonishing, really, that it is left to Michelle Grattan and other commentators to push, pull, prod, the ABC into line.
I congratulate Michelle Grattan and her fellows.
Gippslander will be pleased, if this is so, William.
McGauran resigns, ‘makes way for new blood’
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/04/2207575.htm?section=justin
Done, onimod.
‘Mr McGauran says these are dark days for the Coalition, and he is making way for fresh blood’.
Letting?
$430b: how much greenhouse gas cuts will cost, says Costa
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/greenhouse-gas-cuts-will-cost-430b/2008/04/03/1206851105550.html
However is the NSW govt in the control of the energy industry and this another ‘green mafia’ moment?
Given the NSW govts problems of late I tend to take anything they claim with a cup of salt.
New threads up on McGauran and a Newspoll from Queensland.
Last post on this thread I gather.
See the contrast between the Vic government and the NSW government on greenhouse gas reduction issues. Total opposite message.
The NSW govt’s report seems to be out kilter with other reports on this. It just makes me suspicious that the NSW is doing this to help out the energy industry. They have earned my distrust and thus anything they say I listen carefully.
VICTORIA could slash its greenhouse gas emissions by using technology that is already available, according to a report to be launched at today’s State Government climate change summit.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/how-to-slash-emissions-without-pain/2008/04/03/1206851106573.html
I’m closing this thread now, so can anyone wishing to discuss Australian politics generally please take it over to the new Morgan thread.