The first federal Newspoll in three weeks has Labor’s two-party lead steady at 59-41. Kevin Rudd’s lead over Brendan Nelson as preferred prime minister has widened from 60 per cent to 64 per cent, having gone 73-7 to 70-10 to 73-9 over the past there surveys.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Newspoll: 59-41
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494 Comments
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Steve – The challenge was to put up and substantiate your allegations that Joh was corrupt (or shut upI guess). I would like facts.
Steve K – I suspect anybody right of you would be a red neck in your eyes. That doesn’t make me one though.
Maybe I can speculate that both Steves are young, full of fire and that by the time they reach my age they will have seen a bit more of the world and that they will see things very differently.
onimod
A Fairy Tale with no basis in fact.
A young ambitious journalist joins a TV news crew – not too far from the Burvale Hotel. He falls head over heals in love with the daughter of a well known novelist, he is so sure that this will lead to paradise he buys a love nest in Upwey – in the picturesque Dandenongs.
Unfortunately as often happens true love falters, the young journalist, heartbroken moves to Sydney joins Aunty and gets a job travelling the world.
But this is an ancient tale, at least 30 years old.
300 steve K
how can you tell? (no – I don’t need an answer)
Does anyone else see the irony of the use of the term “drawdown” when used in relation to troop withdrawals from Iraq?
The first two links from google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawdown_(economics)
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/drawdown.asp
W I T H D R A W A L is not a dirty word.
(and that’s all I’m going to say about Iraq – just don’t mention the war)
Did anyone who watched Kerry Interview Swannie get the impression that Kerry has a bit too much invested? Swannie even laid a punch tonight.
276 dovif
“Did you know that 1 million Iraqi died between 1988 and 1998 because of genocides? ”
Can you provide a reference for that egregious piece of nonsense?
Saddam liquidated about 80,000 Kurds in a genocide at the time of the Iran-Iraq War SUPPORTED by the US who sent him the chemical weapons to do so. Even after the War finished they backed him, until he invade Kuwait. He probably killed about 100,000 political opponents, which does NOT meet the definition of genocide. Political groups are not included in the genocide treaty.
The largest genocide in Iraq was caused by the US sanctions after they decided Saddam was no longer their best buddy and an estimated 500,000 died due to the sanctions, which make the Iraqi population totally dependent on Saddam.
Barry,
Are you really suggesting I am going to become a Joh-loving, right-wing xenophobe in 25 years time? Why haven’t my parents had the same conversion?
ruawake – a lovely tale indeed.
One Tree Hill is a great location for training on one’s MTB too
I hope you get over it one day!
ruawake
306 is the other half’s login
that’ll teach me to type on the wrong machine
301
Barry
I have no interest in debating Joh with you or anyone else. All I know is that he was either corrupt or totally stupid. Either way he was a disgrace to his profession and QLD was a much better place for his departure from public life.
Not everybody can see the obvious Chris. Maybe there’s hope for your parents yet. Perhaps discuss the calibre of the current labor Party members with them – don’t leave out Keith Wright, Bill Darcy, Brian Burke (and the rest of the crew in WA), the people involved recently in Woolongong, Milton whatisname in NSW, the incompetence of Joan Kirner, Big Red in Tas, the current crew in NSW. I could go on and on but I have a few more important things to do at the moment.
Don’t write off your parents just yet though.
303
onimod
“Did anyone who watched Kerry Interview Swannie get the impression that Kerry has a bit too much invested? Swannie even laid a punch tonight.”
I missed it – what do you mean by Kerry having too much invested? Also would you describe the punch? Kerry is normally the best prepared of journalists so Swannie must have been quick to land a jab.
309 [I could go on and on]
I do not doubt that for one second, Barry!
Barry,
I think my parents have been scarred enough by Howard’s 17pc interest rates, Kennet closing schools and rail-lines, cutting funding to hospitals, Bolte creating hi-rise slums, children overboard (”we don’t want people like that living in this country” – indeed), the Justice Kirby ‘affair’, etc etc.
You’d think if Labor were that bad there would be a Liberal Government somewhere in Australia. but I suppose not everyone can be as enlightened as you.
310 Steve K
You should probably watch it, but Swan was much cooler in his delivery up until the last line of the interview. Kerry was pushing throughout and Swan was toeing the line. Kerry called him on it and Swan responded with a retort that indicated he’d memorised Allbull’s questioning of Glen Stevens at estimates. Kerry pushed again and Swan basically told him to think up his own questions and stop parroting Allbulls piss weak questions. When the camera returned to Kerry he had the big grin across his face. The next and last question was soft, but Swan was ‘up’ and rushed the reply.
The grin was either sheepish, or maybe Kerry achieved what he was after.
I think Kerry was trying to get Swan to look nervous and panicky in response to the worsening international conditions; Swan looked cooler than Kerry. I wondered what Kerry’s stock portfolio looks like – that’s all. He may well have been just ‘amping’ up a little with the hope that Swan would respond?
on another matter, i think the libs would be stupid to merge with the Nats. I agree that being out of power federally should prompt review of their policies and platform (although I dont think they’ll do this), they should think twice about giving up their party’s identity altogether. Would be a strange irony though, if after the PM the Libs tell us was one of the best ever, his party amalgamated with another- maybe he wasnt so good after all…
oops i meant out of power federally and all states and territories (feels good to say that!)
Meanwhile the Magical Listening Tour now has a new video attached.
http://www.liberal.org.au/Shadow%20Ministry/Brendan%20Nelson/index.php%20#3
314-15 Andrew
I can’t see the sum of the parts being as big as it stands now.
I just can’t see how a Queensland pastoralist and a Sydney Institute member are ever going to be members of the same party.
313
onimod
Thanks for that onimod. I was hoping that the 7.30 report was repeated in the morning on ABC2 but I don’t see it listed. It sounds like Swannie handled himself fairly well – not the best Rudd minister by a long shot but improving over time. It’s good to see Albull getting a mention.
Onimod.
If a Yorkshire Tory and a Westender Tory from London can be in the One Party, why can’t a Queensland pastoralist and a Sydney Institute member be in the One Party?
If a Tory from Vancouver can be in the One Party as a Tory in Quebec City then why can’t it be done here???
Conservatives only need 1 party.
The Conservatives of Italy are gradually trying to get a single party going the Party of Freedom.
The Canadian Conservatives merged the Canadian Alliance and the PC Party and now they are in Government.
New Zealand has just one conservative party.
Japan has one conservative party.
Singapore has one conservative party.
South Korea has one conservative party.
Great Britain has one conservative party.
Denmark has one centre-right party.
France has one centre-right party.
USA has one conservative party.
Spain as one conservative party.
Greece has one conservative party.
Need i go on?
Australia no longer needs a bush centric party in Canberra the Liberals already hold more rural seats. If the Nats dont merge into the Liberal Party then there ought to a new single conservative party with a new name born soon!
Diogenes @ 304 -
Saddam liquidated about 80,000 Kurds in a genocide at the time of the Iran-Iraq War SUPPORTED by the US who sent him the chemical weapons to do so.
They also supplied the satellite photos the Iraqis needed for optimum targetting.
He probably killed about 100,000 political opponents,
At the rate two of Bush’s new best friends, Uzbekistan’s Islam ‘Boil Them in Oil” Karimov and Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakstan, are killing off political foes (and their families) they’ll soon eclipse that figure. Perhaps they already have.
And the bushies are just going to toe the line?
They believe in ’single economic units’?
I don’t know why you’re going on – the point was that your dream of a single conservative party means people with widely divergent views are just going to come together because……
What’s you evidence that ‘conservatives only need one party’?
Look at most democratic western countries they don’t have more than one conservative party!
Hell if One Nation can be smashed then any other small bush party will too anyway Canada don’t suffer from 3rd party (rural political organisations)?
Let’s look at 3 of the most similar nations to ourselves…
New Zealand = National Party
Canada = Conservative Party of Canada
UK = Conservative Party
They all have just 1 party and they all have diverse peoples in them…
I’d say it would be harder to get a Tory from Quebec and a Tory from Vancouver to come to agreement but look they did so how hard can it be doing the same thing here!
Steve K,
No need to wait. See here.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/
Glen,
The UK is about the size of Victoria, you simply cannot compare the needs of rural people in the UK to those in Australia. Someone from Yorkshire only need to drive about 30 minsute to be in a city -that simply doesn’t happen in rural Australia. You only have to look at the Telstra-rural conundrum to see that. Telecoms aren’t an issue here.
Chris
I hate to point out but despite that fact the UK has what 50million citizens that gives you alot of diversity!
Anyway what percentage of people live in rural areas a small percentage. Plus why not focus on Canada lot a rural places there and yet they have one conservative political party. Nice Try!
Glen,
I’m not ‘try’ing anything – I’m simply pointing out that you can’t say that a country with 60 million people in an area the size of Victoria can be compared with a country that has 20 million people in an area the size of western Europe. If you think they can then you’re a bigger fool than I thought.
Canada has 30million and are are about the same size as us and they have 1 Tory Party explain that!
Did I mention Canada? I thought I said a comparison between UK and Aust is not relevant. I don’t really care if the Libs and NP merge, I was making an observation.
*bangs head against wall*
You deliberately avoided the Canada comparison!
*bangs head against wall*
The Australian conservatives must be the only conservative party on Earth calling themselves a Liberal Party.
Glen, to all intents and purposes there is just one conservative party in Australia already. Formally merging the two tory brands is not going to improve their market share. You may end up with the worst of all worlds: socially liberal urban voters may feel uncomfortable with the more old-fashioned, monarchist, flag-flying, country types and likewise, country voters, who really depend on the government for lots of support, may not long support a party run by and for the big-end-of-town.
But one thing is for sure, whether you tories go for a uni-brand or a dual-brand strategy, you have to improve your product first. The public are not buying the second rate offering currently out on special. Where are the ideas? the will to improve things? the energy? the desire to lead? The product is second rate and you’d better start with that, imho.
Chris in LDN @ 328 -
*bangs head against wall*
Never argue with a village idiot, Chris. People tend to soon loose track of who’s who
331 blindoptimist
bingo!
(ruawake – I hope I didn’t say the wrong thing?)
Glen, I think the best days of the coalition are clearly behind us all. What lies ahead? Why do conservatives bother to seek office? Tell me why. I really don’t know what y’all stand for or what you might do if you ever won an election again. What are you for? I suspect you stand for one thing only: office itself.
Blindoptimist, I suspect (actually I’m positive) they do stand for something very significant: the imposition of Work”Choices” onto all employees.
Rx i agree it should be called either the Conservative Party of Australia or the United Australia Party (the former Tory group of the 1930s). The Liberal Party merely confuses people overseas…
331
blindoptimist – that may but will they really vote for the left?
First we need structural change then we can start pumping out policy IMHO! Both changes are necessary!
blindoptimist we are in favour of choice to be able to chose your education for your child and not be punished for your decision for being able to encourage sensible wages growth and give employeers the conditions applicable to create more jobs. We Tories are for a strong economy with practical and well thought out policies that don’t lead to big government. When we get into power in say 2016, we’ll no doubt have to fix the mess left to us each time we regain office from the Left fixing the economy will be the number 1 priority. Everytime we leave the economy in good shape except 1929 (Bruce) but we have left the ALP a bounty when they got into office and they end up squandering it or ruining the economy somehow and we have to sort out your mess!
336 [The Liberal Party merely confuses people overseas…]
It confuses people in Australia too. Some have been known to be so confused that they actually voted for the Liberals.
Well Steve that kinda happens when the ALP me-too’s just about every Tory policy and promises to be like the Tories when they take office…it’s an understandable confusion given the ALP are so willing to go towards the right to win an election…
http://news.theage.com.au/conservatives-win-majority-in-s-korea-election-exit-polls/20080409-24y2.html
‘The polls by four TV stations gave differing figures. But the lowest prediction for Lee Myung-Bak’s Grand National Party (GNP) was 154 seats in the 299-member single-chamber National Assembly, and the highest was 184.”
The Tories are on the march!
At least in South Korea!
I think it’s funny that on site full of political nerds, Glen thinks he has to explain what the UAP was.
ruawake@286
I am a supporter of proportional representation (and I have previously outed myself as a Green). The key problem with single member electorates is the failure of representation, not of government. Many countries work just fine with coalitions (heck, we’ve had one in Australia for the last 11 years – even if I didn’t like it, it fitted the ’stability’ argument). Germany is currently in a coalition and has been for the last 40 years. So too for France and other European nations, irrespective of their electoral system. The point I’m trying to make is that governments can still be formed, nations operate, economies grow. That is not chaos. What does concern me here is the representational issue – that is, of the citizens being represented in parliament.
But to go further on my two points of failure of responsible government in Australia, the very strong party discipline exhibited here undermines the nature of government being responsbile to parlliament. This has partly ameliorated by the Senate (or at least did between 1980 to 2005) when neither Coalition or ALP controlled it, but even there it has been possible to pass most Government legislation. And of course between 2005-2007 we had the spectre of an unfettered Coalition ruling with only limited checks or balances upon it.
I am sure on a planet somewhere in this galaxy there is a conservative government on the march.
I’ve already shot down Barry’s argument re the Fitzgerald inquiry and it’s terms of reference. If he is prepared to mislead us on that what else is he prepared to mislead us on? Funny how Barry didn’t respond to that posting.
Now the Tory supporters (read Glen) have to find electoral satisfaction from overseas, namely South Korea and Italy. Am I the only one here who couldn’t care less about what goes on politically in these countries? You are desperate Glen.
338 Glen – hang on, earlier you expressed to me that the ALP had no policies and now you’re saying they have the Liberal’s policies. Which is it? By the way, I think you’ll find the Libs have adopted Labor’s policies in some areas since the election.
“Everytime we leave the economy in good shape except 1929 (Bruce) but we have left the ALP a bounty when they got into office and they end up squandering it or ruining the economy somehow and we have to sort out your mess!”
I don’t recall in 1983 the economy being left in good shape for the Hawke government. Who was the outgoing treasurer again? Stop trying to rewrite history Glen.
Ah but look at the shape we got it in 1975 and also when we got it again in 1996…
Also Fraser was a tool and wouldn’t like Junior Howie as Treasurer do what was necessary!
347 Glen – I think by that answer you’re acknowledging Howie left the economy in bad shape in ‘83, something you failed to mention earlier. By the way the only reason the interest rates weren’t higher than 13% under Howie was that they were pegged at 13%.
You got a far stronger base to work from in ‘96 (given the economic reforms of the Keating/Hawke governments) than Hawke got in ‘83.
Glen, I don’t think most voters assess things in terms of left and right most of the time. That is a pastime for the politically animated. Life for most people is both less charged and more nuanced than that.
A very successful politician from the Goldfields, Premier Wise, had an axiom: politics, for him, was about service. In other words, politics was about knowing and understanding your constituents, listening to them and serving them without reservation. He was an outstandingly successful politician, usually winning more than 80% of the vote in his seat and revered for his good sense and honest application to improving things for the people.
Until the conservatives come to view politics as being more a call to serve and less as a chance to rule, they will continue to attract duds and lose elections.
347, 348
Exactly – interest rates were on a downward trend when JWH started to make us feel ‘relaxed and comfortable’.
I suppose it’s good manners to help people relax before shafting them.
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