Roy Morgan returns to its normal Friday routine with a face-to-face poll of 1055 respondents conducted last weekend, showing Labor’s two-party vote again has a six in front of it after dipping below in the previous week’s phone poll.
Other news:
• The ABC reports the hearing into Labor’s appeal against its 12-vote defeat in McEwen has been adjourned, and will “resume next month”.
• In an article in yesterday’s Australian, former Labor Senator and professional number-cruncher John Black reported on research conducted by his firm Australian Development Strategies indicating that Labor’s pitch to “working families” in fact led to a swing away from it among childless women. This did much to explain the phenomenon demonstrated on this map of swings in Melbourne showing a stable result in the city and inner suburbs giving way to progressively larger Labor swings in the mortgage belt. Black goes so far as to claim, a little extravagantly, that “a continuation of this trend in 2010 could give the Greens enough primary votes to come ahead of the Liberals at the next election and could cost Rudd Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne), Housing Minister Tanya Plibersek (Sydney), Infrastructure Minister Anthony Albanese (Grayndler) and Resources Minister Martin Ferguson (Batman)”.
• In further number crunching news, Antony Green and Possum Comitatus have drawn my attention to a demographic review of Newspoll data published in March at Australian Policy Online by Ian Watson, freelance researcher and Visiting Senior Research Fellow in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University.
• Yet more number crunching news: the 2007 Australian Election Study, providing comprehensive post-election survey data from 2000 respondents, can be accessed from the Australian Social Science Data Archive.
• Much goodness from the Australian Parliamentary Library: Scott Bennett and Stephen Barber’s research paper on the 2007 election, and electoral division rankings on various measures from 2006 census data.
882 Comments
Gary Morgan thinks Nelson’s proposed 5c cut in fuel excise is too small. He wants 15c.
We all face a bit of adversity in our jobs from time to time, but just imagine how Dr Death and Allbull are feeling after being notified of the latest Morgan F2F.
Yowzer!
Rudd is going to have a baby while still on his honeymoon at this rate…
I hope his travel insurance covers it.
Looks like the Party room meeting for the coalition next Wednesday could be an eventful time.
There is also an EMRS poll for Tassie if anyone cares
preferred Premier
Will Hodgman 39% (liberal)
Paul Lennon 17 % (Labor
Pegg Putt 14 % (Green)
http://www.news.com.au/mercury/story/0,22884,23740341-3462,00.html
I care, Scotty – thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Scotty, funny that they forgot to mention how many were in the sample. It wasn’t just the Hodgman family was it?
Let’s have a think about the business of a pollster.
First, core business – the process of collecting and weighting data.
From there, one might branch out a bit and do a little bit of analysis. it’s really secondary to the process of collecting and weighting the data, and you wouldn’t want to do or say anything that dissuaded clients from wanting to pay you, would you? If you had a point to make it’s probably safest to stick a question in amongst the ones you’re getting paid for.
If the polling reveals something pretty obvious, then it can’t hurt to say it out loud:
Gary Morgan says:
“The Rudd Government’s first Budget has the “thumbs up” — 56.5% of Australians (up 4.5%) now say that Australia is “heading in the right direction” — a strong endorsement of the Government’s Budget.
(I’m not so sure, but I’ll get back to that)
What on earth would possess you to come out with:
Gary Morgan says:
“Soaring petrol prices are putting a strain on family budgets and working Australians need relief at the bowser if they’re not to stop the spending on retail and internal travel that help prop up the economy.
“Brendan Nelson’s pledge to cut the fuel excise by 5c is a small step in the right direction that the Government should follow — why not a 15c cut?
“Either the RBA must cut the high interest rates at its next meeting or the Rudd Government needs to respond to these concerns or risk sending Australians into a recession “we don’t have to have.”
The mind just boggles when I read that.
I wouldn’t have thought that knowing what the next opinion poll is going to say a couple of days before the rest of the country gives rise to any sort of expertise in economics, let alone the heady world of political economics.
Sheesh! Talk about watering down your core business.
Back to what the Morgan poll really says.
Yes – the movement is to the ALP, compared to the last poll which moved to the Fibs, which…… yada yada yada.
[according to a combination of face and phone Morgans] Since early March there appears to be a drift away from the Government, while the second to last poll seems a little iffy, meaning comparisons to it are pretty meaningless too.
steve @ 6
Steve i am sorry if i have given you the impression i was trying to mislead you. I was merely trying to spread the word of its existence. The lack of detail is more to do with me not being in the mood to be bothered with all that effort. The most significant statistic if you ask me is that around thirty percent are still saying none of the above. EMRS is not the most accurate poll in the world. But it is mostly in context of its past polls which are showing clear decline. Also that Tasmania is probably demographically less complex than most mainland states. As Newspoll does not do Tasmania, in short it is the poll we got.
New post up on the EMRS Tasmanian poll.
“Labor’s pitch to “working families” in fact led to a swing away from it among childless women.”
Well, it’s a good thing for the Libs that they have silver-tongued SNAGs like Bill Heffernan to woo this demographic over to the Liberal Party.
Kakuru
Maybe Big brother would have got better ratings if it was like Bill heffernan Wilson tucky, Barnaby Joyce and Alexander Downer ect.
ah Bill heffernan and those national’s press conferrances are funny.
While they came third in primary vote, the Greens passed the libs on preferences, got into the two candidate prefered and changed the seat from safe Labor to marginal Labor (54.71%).
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-13745-228.htm
I don’t think Mark Riley of channel 7 news fame likes Kevin Rudd. He just presented a real hatchet job on Rudd’s comment that he has done all he can re petrol prices.
Riley stated that this comment by Rudd was the silliest thing he has said since coming to government. They even interviewed a typical working family. I’m convinced 7 are running a political agenda.
Channal 9 they suggested the rising petrol prices could be a life saver for Nelson.
Well it was a silly thing to say. He has done all he can… which means he is useless. It’d be better to just say his Government will continue working and doing all they can to relieve cost of living pressures in a responsible way etc. etc.
They should also be reminding people that a few months ago the Liberals were telling us we’d never been better off.
I’m surprised Andrew O’Keefe is still employed by them as he was very pro Rudd on the Election Day Sunrise special.
BTW, Did Prue McSween fulfill her promise to leave the Country if Howard lost ? Or was it a “Non-Core” promise, like her hero Rattus ?
Nelson has got to get a better line on Petrol. His suggestion the Kevin Rudd should be doing more on Petrol is almost laughable. I know he’s got his own wheelbarrow to push on his unfunded 5 cents excise cut but excise could be cut to zero and petrol would still be $1.20 a litre and the budget would be in the red (It would cost ~$21 billion). It is a worldwide market we belong to and they have got to get to that fact.
As Mr Black idea of the Greens beating the ALP inner city, this has supposed to have happen at the past 4 elections and so far it hasn’t happened. There are three things which have to be overcome.
1) The Greens need to get in front of the Liberals. They managed to do this last year but I think the inner-city Liberal vote is likely to have reached the low point last year. Howard was very unpopular with the small “l” Liberals, I can see some of these people coming back to the Liberals at the next election*.
2) They need to get the ALP primary significantly below 50%. That happen in Melbourne in 2001 largely as a protest vote on the Tampa issue. But an ALP primary vote of 49% is close enough because of preferences from micro candidates. Tanner last year was over 50% before Liberal preferences distributed on the back of FF and Democrats voters.
3) They have to stop a leakage of Liberal preferences to the ALP. Sometimes Liberal voters aren’t that keen on the Greens and prefer a Red to a Green. Hence if the Greens can’t get that under control, the ALP could probably get away with a primary vote of 46%. In Melbourne last year 17% of Liberal Voter preferred Tanner to the Greens candidate.
Of course, there is no guarantee that the Green will be able to keep any lower house seats that they gain at the next election. Previous experiences have shown that members of all parties often are no up-to-speed on all of their own policies and when you one of a very small group you tend to get picked on by the media.
All that said, the ALP does need to be careful of its left flank as it always a threat but as long as Bob Brown** is leader I would not suggest that there is going to be too much trouble.
* The Liberals might go down the extremist path of the NSW branch but then I don’t see them preferencing the Greens.
** The Greens supporter base has not grown very much given that they are now the new third force in Australian Politics. Question should be asked about his leadership but their is naivity on this issue within Green circles.
B. S. Fairman, I reckon, Brendon (I’m a doctor) thinks he’s on to an absolute winner with the petrol pain line. Perhaps he thinks it’s like putting someone in pain on morphine, or someone with anxiety on a benzodiazepine, preferably permanently, and in the case of benzodiazepines, multiple versions of the same. It still gives me the absolute irrits how ‘their’ ABC report stuff. I clicked onto the online site today, and I swear, every second story was about the Tories view on everything. That Penny Wong announced a significant return of water flow to the Murray via the water buy back number, disappeared within about 5 nanoseconds.
Federally the Greens are irrelevant, if they ever manage to get the balance of power in their own right in the Senate they will end up just like the Democrats.
It is easy to make a lot of noise when you are politically impotent.
How many Pollbludgers out there have adopted a pensioner because that wretched Mr. Rudd did not include them in the budget? According to Today Tonight here in Adelaide they were “swamped” with offers and presumably the same line was offered in every state. Hmmm I wonder how many offers they really got. Yet another example of blatant media bias. I know it’s been said before but where has the media been for the previous eleven and a half years when it came to the supposed plight of the pensioner.
15 LTEP – It was an honest thing to say, given that he doesn’t control world oil prices. The Libs can’t say he isn’t being honest about it can they? Their so called solution is looking more and more ridiculous as the prices go up.
Rudd has always said “there is no magic bullet” ,while saying they maybe able to help around the margins. Of course our unbiased media have taken that to mean he promised to bring prices down.
I am just hang out for Nelson to start calling for the nationalisation of our oil industry. It’s funny because he just might
The party of the free market is blaming Labor. . .for letting the free market work.
If the petrol price keeps going up I hope Labor will have a minibudget to cut more spending to give more tax cuts to the lower income taxpayers.
Now there’s an idea that I might agree with even if it did come from Nelson, Blair.
Harry, yeah the ABC irritates me too.
When the Libs were in government all we heard on The World Today was Liberal ministers spruiking on. Now that they’re in opposition, all we hear is Liberal ex-ministers spruiking on.
It seems that at the ABC they still haven’t realised the government’s changed.
Speaking of denial, Shaun Carney writes an article this morning about the Libs working to a “what will happen in the next three weeks” strategy. Generally a reasonable article, but then he says this:
What could he possibly be thinking to even offer as a possibility that the Libs could be back in power by 2009?
What I was getting at in my post immediately above was that there still seems to be an expectation, even a hope in the national media – from the ABC to the tabloids – that soon, one day, next week, in a month or two, in the near future… the Rudd government will crumble like a house of cards.
Almost every article this week has been roughly on this topic: “What do the Libs need to do to win the next election?”.
That there is no hope of the Libs winning the next election does not seem to occur to their spruikers in the press. Or if it occurs to them, they are keeping a stiff upper lip, trying not to speak the unspeakable truth.
Hartcher’s latest is like this, full of bluff and thunder of how the Libs can get out of the mire and take on the government.
Shanahan’s piece this morning was titled “Rudd’s honeymoon lingers on”… like a bad smell, Dennis? It’s not “lingering” on, it’s triumphing, beating all comers, making Rudd the second most popular PM in history (behind Hawke). “Lingering on” has an air about it of con, swindle, snow-job… not at all descriptive of the reality of the situation.
Carney quotes Lib insiders approvingly as thinking they can get back into government next year(!). When have they been right about anything in politics in the past three years. Why should they start getting wisdom now, all of a sudden.
Almost everything I read lately treats the Labor government as quasi-illegitimate. Full of tricksters and vapourware merchants, symbol peddlars and outright inept. While the Libs seem, by contrast, to have a real message somewhere, if only they could find a leader to uncover it, or wait for Rudd to inevitably implode, or something.
It’s becoming an unhealthy obsession with them: the Lib leadership, Rudd’s imminent collapse, his workaholic nature driving his ministers crazy, his con on Kyoto, Japan, whales, China… name your scam.
Can’t they see the new government is doing well because they are keeping their promises made before the last election? That people think they were let down by the Libs under Howard? That every chance they get the Libs call again for Work Choices or some other failed ex-policy and can’t seem to understand that the public didn’t make a mistake, they took deliberate aim and fired both barrels at the Coalition government last November?
No, it’s all down to some sleight of hand with leadership, a Messiah fixation that will somehow allow them to avoid the hard road of re-equipping their policy portfolio and actually going out and winning government, not stumbling into it.
They just don’t get it do they?
The LNP and its many varied Liberal supporters in Press, Radio and TV need to ponder long and hard on the fact that it was ONLY the incumbent Howard ‘aura’ that saved them from annihilation last election.
This entire group truly does live in denial. They should have realised before the election when all the Howard ministers after a decade in government were still out performed by their counterparts in the debates, that the Rudd team are competent individuals (which Bolt admitted was a problem for the LNP on The Insiders).
The still don’t understand that Howard, Costello and the team did very little useful in 10 years of government and, that the economy was mostly on auto-pilot all that time. They also forget that, all things being equal, that even Howard only scraped his elections in apart from the Latham effort and, that there has been solid Labor support for some time.
But their true denial is with Rudd.
They feel extremely jealous and spiteful toward Rudd because of the way he often humiliated Howard during the campaign and, outperformed the government in most ways. They simply couldn’t stomach that their hero Howard was shown up to be a shallow, limited man with his only claim to fame being often re-elected, however on the back of disgraceful Carl Rove type tactics….bigotry, hate, racism and greed.
They are truly in denial, they still cannot see it. They still cant understand that people like Gillard, Roxon, Pilbersek, Tanner, Swann, Rudd, Wong and others are actually intellectually and politically and publically more capable and gifted than their LNP counterparts.
They think Rudd is going to crumble? The man that held his own on the world stage 10 seconds after being elected, pulled off a tricky bit of work in China and is garnering international respect and admiration….the man who could sit for an hour in front of the public and answer any question that came along.
There must be some sort of mist surrounding the LNP and people like Hartcher, Shamaham and so on where reality doesn’t seep in.
They are hoping that the latest budget might be so unpopular as to cost an election? Or that somehow the Rudd government is going to Sepku?
I think the secret of their next 6 years in Opposition is being revealed in this. They are in the mindset that they will win an election because Labor will lose it…not because they will win it themselves. They are hoping that the other person will fail and thus they will be chosen. Oh how they failed to learn from Rudd, who went out and won the last election.
If Labor is to lose then the LNP will have to win it, take it away. They wont win because of any error Rudd will make. And who are their great hopes? Nelson, Turnbull and Bishop! Even with the benefit of being in government so long, having access to all the departments and briefings and information….yet they still are incompetent.
Wonder if they have stopped to wonder why Rudd has been very very popular for a very long time?
In the mean time they are probably thinking, the LNP wont have to do much, just turn up to the show, because it is their intention as media to try and promote the LNP and sell down Labor no matter what.
So we have the prospect of the LNP press, radio and tv lot ready to lie to Australia and ignore the right or wrong or good or bad of Government policy and performance.. they think they have no responsibility to Australia, only to their own partisan desires or maybe that of their boss.
So we will get read a lot of moronic and deliberately critical economic ‘analysis’ of the the Rudd government.
William, thanks for posting the link to the Australian Parliamentary Library paper, makes for fascinating reading, especially in the role of the media section. Have filed it away for future reference. Like many others here I am bloody fed up with our msm at the moment, pandering to that idiot Nelson and his ridiculous ‘fixes’, as Bushfire Bill said the public took deliberate aim and fired both barrels. Great post BB.
Bushfire Bill #27:
What you are saying is exemplified by the intro to a PM segment just yesterday in fact:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2254238.htm
And why so many ex-Liberal Ministers spruiking on ABC constantly: Radio National and NewsRadio? Every little non-issue, and you can count on it: the failed and ousted Liberals will be there spouting their spite … often without the balance of a government reply.
Kina
I agree with your summary of the MSM, the question is, with the opposition getting such a good run why are they having so little luck in moving the public opinion. It goes deeper than that, the comment sections in the MSM blogs are getting more strident in there criticism of the behavior of reporters.
On the ABC yesterday, the Liberal mouth piece from the Institute of public affairs got a royal ticking off, with several listeners making it vary clear they are sick of the crap.
Kina and Bushfire Bill – both great posts.
Watching QandA with my husband the other night, we both realised how incredibly across the detail Rudd was. (OK, we already knew he was a policy wonk, but seeing him in action always reminds you how competent he truly is). We tried to think back to how Howard would have handled some of those questions – for example about pensioners and carers. Rudd could list how many people there were in different categories off the top of his head, Howard would have been lucky to have made any kind of approximate guess that was within the ball park. And Kevin did not shy away from difficult questions at all.
At the end of that show I said to my husband that if this show becomes a regular feature, and Kevin appears on it in any kind of regularity, then the poll numbers are just going to get worse for the Libs. Back when Rudd was the Shadow Foreign Minister and was just getting his head on TV for interviews, you could clearly see what a clever performer he was. Smart, calm, makes the viewer feel good. We said back then that if he could extricate Big Kim from the leadership then he would be a force to be reckoned with, and that is exactly what has happened.
I think watching QandA made it very clear that the ALP are aiming squarely at the middle, and the more we see of Rudd, Gillard, Tanner, Swan, Wong, Plibersek, Roxon et al, the clearer it becomes just how competent they are – and the more popular the government in general becomes. I’m seeing this with the people I work with, neighbours and friends – I still hear occasional criticism, but everyone I am talking to is at least open to listening to the Rudd government – I am even hearing some distinct praise, even if it is a bit begrudging at times. And I live in Sophie Mirabella’s seat of Indi!
Our country has fundamentally changed with the new Rudd government. Suddenly, we are seeing intellectual debate back on the radar – but it is not being framed as elite or only for the “chardonnay sippers”. I would even go so far as to say that people feel that a general decency has come back to the government. I think we, and the MSM, had become so used to broken promises, obfuscation, and word weasling that it is a shock to the system that this new government deals differently. The MSM will be waiting a long long time if they are looking for Rudd to step on his unmentionables. I think he will go down as one of the best performing PMs we have ever had, and maybe our most popular.
Middle Australia loves Rudd.
This article by Mark Davis, should be compulsory reading for “ALL” MSM media commentators.
{Now the most definitive election exit poll undermines the revisionist interpretations being promoted by some of the protagonists in last year’s poll.
The survey shows:
? Industrial relations and global warming were the biggest vote-changing issues.
? Rising interest rates did not cost the Coalition as dearly as thought.
? Voters respected Mr Howard but were virtually in love with Mr Rudd, giving him the highest “likeability” rating in the survey’s 20-year history.
? Low-income battlers moved decisively back to Labor.
? The Coalition would have struggled under Mr Costello.}
{The Australian Election Study is a postal survey of 1873 voters at last year’s poll by a team of researchers led by Ian McAllister of the Australian National University. The Herald’s analysis of this data shows the election was a story of a politically-engaged electorate, a prime minister at odds with public opinion on cut-through issues, and an opposition leader who wrapped up the contest months before polling day.
Just under 70 per cent of the survey’s respondents said the Coalition’s Work Choices legislation had been important in their decision. A majority of 62 per cent disapproved of Work Choices. Labor had a strong lead among these anti-Work Choices voters, winning 66 per cent of their first preference votes compared with 17 per cent for the Coalition.
Global warming was also a strong vote-changer.
Asked whether Australia should participate in the Kyoto Protocol, 67 per cent of respondents said yes, 25 per cent said it depended, and 8 per cent said no (Mr Howard’s position). Of those supporting Kyoto, 55 per cent voted for Labor compared with 30 per cent for the Coalition.}
Clearly, the so-called “Howard Battlers” turned on the Coalition.
{Perhaps it was the battlers who had the last word. In 1996, 49 per cent of people in unskilled and semi-skilled occupations voted for the Coalition and 35 per cent for Labor. But last November, this was reversed as the Coalition’s share of battler votes plunged to 37 per cent while Labor’s rose to 51 per cent.}
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/23/1211183103011.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
This is a most telling statement in the whole article that most commentators have still not come to grips with.
{the election was a story of a politically-engaged electorate, a prime minister at odds with public opinion on cut-through issues, and “an opposition leader who wrapped up the contest months before polling day”.} (emphasis mine).
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/23/1211183103011.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
It’s mainly ABC, OO (and all News Ltd papers) and 7 who continue to shamlessly campaign for the return of the Coalition. But lets face it they have been doing this full on for the last 2 years and Labor is still riding high. It’s just that in their frustration at Kev’s continuing popuality they are getting more shrill and more nonsensical in their comments.
They don’t seem to be having any effect, their carers & pensioner beat ups didn’t shake the polls neither has all this petrol BS. Meanwhile Allbull has lost credibility and was shown to be a liar (to do with petrol tax) and Brenda is a figure of ridicule. No one would want the fool running our country he’s an embarassment to the planet.
enjaybe #20 hey those adopted pensioners had better watch it or nasty Mr Rudd might tax them on all this extra income the are receiving.
I reckon a lot of pensioners would be upset about this Adopt a Pensioner crap. If my mum was still alive she’d be one of them, a proud woman, brought up 5 kids in the 50s, husband WW2 vet with a drinking problem who worked in saw-mills for not a lot of money. Mum used to go pea picking to try to keep food on the table, there was no welfare then. She’d see this latest gimmick as an insult.
I sent this e-mail off to Hinch’s blog site. His reply was weak.
“As a person who prides himself as a journalist of integrity, it surprises me that you continue to misrepresent Rudd in regard to his so called promise to lower prices of goods and petrol. He, of course did nothing of the kind. He clearly stated that there was “no silver bullet” but would instigate ways of keeping the prices as low as possible.
My challenge to you Derryn is to find any Rudd quote, either before or since the election, verifying your contention.
You also said Rudd stated that “the buck stopped with him” in regard to prices. Wrong again Derryn. He said that in regard to hospitals and you know it.
You’re letting your dislike of Rudd and Labor get in the way of your journalistic integrity Derryn, big time.”
Derryn replied – “Gary. I have no ‘dislike for Rudd and Labor’ as you put it. My job is to question the government – the same way I questioned the Howard Government. dh”
This from the man who once said he thought Downer would make a good PM way back in … 2006-7.
So he signed it dh – sounds about right.
He left out the u in the middle
Nah, only the ‘i’, ‘c’ and ‘k’ in the middle and ‘e’, ‘a’ and ‘d’ at the end
41
MayoFeral
I guess my ‘joke’ was way to subtle. You have spelt it out very clearly indeed. Hinch is a dh of the highest order. Likes to pretend that he supports those who can’t support themselves (the battlers I guess) but it’s a front to hide the fact that he’s really a society circle brown nose who uses populist issues to make out he’s a man of the people.
Steve K @ 42 – Like his ‘Struggle Street’ mate in Sydney?! LOL
And let’s not forget the “best friend workers ever had” currently living it up in Jamaica watching the cricket at the workers expense.
Hope all the ‘adopted’ pensioners are being paid in one dollar coins, I understand that they are the most suitable ones to feed the pokies.
The ‘best friend the workers ever had’ seems to be spending a lot of time out of the country since being WorkChoiced by the electorate. (What a pity he did not retire much earlier).
44- You too can sponsor a pensioner for just a dollar a play….
Rudd was late on stage for his speech. Channel 7 said the reason for his tardiness was that he wanted to make adjustments to his speech while over at 9 they said he became lost in the building as he tried to avoid the protesters. In fact Brumby, on stage, confirmed 9’s version. What are 7 up to? By the way, 7 headed their piece “Better late than never”.
The Poisoned Dwarf reckons Downer is “the comeback trail”.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23751087-5005374,00.html
First its Costello, now its Downer. Please, oh please say its true. Hell, we just had an election to get rid of these clowns. If it takes another election defeat so be it.
Good old Dolly. Party in turmoil. Need of firm handling. No prospect of knight on white charger. Dolly to rescue in fishnet tights. Mercy dash. Endless enjoyment for observers from the left.
Hmm maybe another investigation into AWB, some documents released under FOI? Rendering prisoners to Egypt, Tamap, SIEVX….what did he know?
Regarding fuel prices and 5 cent tax cuts, I can only agree with BS Fairman and others that it is errant nonsense and I hope Rudd and Swan don’t fall for it. Fuel would still be expensive ($1.20+/litre) even if the tax were zero and as Blair said, the budet would then be in deficit with no room to move to compensate those really in need. Nelson still hasn’t said how he would pay for the cut, or agreed to pass the anti-inflation measurs in the budget. I think it is a good marker to identify journalists with a strong right wing bias when they fail to question Nelson about those things.
Those who have bought large, thirsty 4WDs should bear responsibility for their error, not be subsidised for it. We might as well give tax rebates to gambling addicts. If they can’t afford the fuel they need to buy a more economical car; its that simple. The fuel prices aren’t going down any time soon. IEA forecasts are that after 2012 the rate of price increase for oil wil actually accelerate.
Its sobering to reflect that Gerge W Bush recently went to Saudi Arabia and convinced them to raise oil output by 300,000 barrels per day. Sounds a lot but its what they use in under an hour! If the USA can’t shift this market we should not kid ourselves that we can.
The only long term solution is federal investment in pubic transport and shifting to local production of more economcial cars. (At present the former government’s “AusLink” rules mean that Federal transport funds don’t go inot urban public transport.) There is no short term solution to fuel prices other than tax relief for those on lower incomes (in the budget) and fiscal discipline to push interest rates lower (also in budget).
When petrol is $2.00 a litre the suggestion of saving 5c per litre becomes meaningless. This is where Nelson, if he hasn’t already, will lose the argument.
Pyne, on Lateline was asked to explain how such a plan would be payed for. He couldn’t answer it. Just saying they will cost it before the election is no answer.
Just in time for Downer’s comeback – an investigation into AWB
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rudd-probe-into-iraq-kickbacks/2008/05/24/1211183189576.html
Milne’s latest article seems like he’s putting the boot into Brenda.What gives?
“BRENDAN Nelson’s Liberal Party leadership has been dealt a new blow with revelations another senior shadow frontbencher rejected his Budget plan for a 5c a litre fuel excise cut.”
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23753303-5006301,00.html
He is probably worried about Nelson getting lucky and recovering some ground on Rudd and making it harder for the LNP to dump him.
The dilemma for the LNP is that they need a night watchman to absorb the punishment but because figures start to recover they find it hard to part with him. They will have to determine if figures recover because of him or because of gravity. Thus when the time comes and lines are drawn…the blood might flow.
Spot on, Socrates. The best way to lower the price of fuel is to reduce demand for it, with genuine investment in public transport. People who do not own cars deserve recognition for the ’sacrifice’ they make-maybe carbon credits, tradable for free public transport. Better still, the Commonwealth could provide cash subsidies -let’s say at about 100%- for public transport fares.
Kina, you’re spot on, too. Dr Nelson is a ligature on an aneurism, under internal and external pressure. We should call him Catgut. Eventually, he will dissolve.
2 points.
I note that the Parliamentary Library article shows that the Greens received a positive swing from non-metro voters in the 07 election. Seems there may be more support for them in rural regions than often supposed.
But more interesting perhaps are the results of the poll regarding Downer that the Adelaide Now site has [follow the links from Vera's post for the poll].
The results currently are:
“Do you want to see Alexander Downer:
Return to frontbench 22% (35 votes) Take over Treasury 5% (9 votes) Take over leadership 23% (37 votes) Quit politics 48% (76 votes) Total votes Total of 157 votes”
I vaccilated between ‘quit’ and ‘take over leader’.
fred, how about another option for Dolly, being blasted into space (where no-one can hear him) , 100%
54 Constant Lurker, that is the best news I have heard for a while. It would be interesting to see what an open, independent inquiry would make of the AWA saga.
AWB even- mixing up my military contractors.
The AWA Saga is a sorry one. I still see little vans running around Sydney with the famous logo on them. I once asked a driver what they did nowadays – AWA – and he told me they were “total systems configurators”, which meant “installers of other companies’ equipment”. A lot of Australian tech companies ended up like that.
Meanwhile, on Insiders, Barry Cassidy continues to prove that he thinks internal Liberal Party affairs are of paramount importance to the nation. They’ve been discussing Alexander Downer’s federal “leadership” ambitions, Uncle Joe Hockey’s state leadership ambitions, and right now Joe is defending the petrol excise policy, and has just quit putting Swan down as not really a proper economic guru like Costello or Turnbull.
Both sides of this interview still in denial.
Now Joe is saying the alco-pop tax increase will lead to young girls having their drinks spiked (and then presumably sexually assaulted).
Why did I get out of bed?
I am well and truly sick and tired of the MSM now taking up the Libs’ meme that Rudd promised to lower petrol prices and the cost of living. He did no such thing. The fact that the media have picked it up when they also know he said no such thing is pathetic.
And yet again on Insiders we just hear about the Libs: the Libs’ leadership woes, the Libs’ internal debates on policy and economics, the Libs tussle between Dolly and Minchin, blah blah blah.
Just out of interest, this is Insiders politician interview lineup for 2008 so far:
25/5 – Joe Hockey
18/5 – Brendan Nelson
11/5 – Malcolm Turnbull
04/5 – Wayne Swan
27/4 – Martin Ferguson
20/4 – Julia Gillard
13/4 – Andrew Robb
06/4 – Stephen Smith
30/3 – Brendan Nelson
16/3 – Lindsay Tanner
09/3 – Julie Bishop
02/3 – Nicola Roxon
24/2 – Andrew Robb
17/2 – Julia Gillard
10/2 – Malcolm Turnbull
They’re not talking up the Libs’ meme. They’re talking up the fact that the Libs’ meme is being talked up.
But not by them of course. It’s always other journalists, the roughneck ones at the other TV shows and the dreaded tabloids who are doing the talking up.
Insiders merely reports the news that people are saying what they are saying, wiithout feeling the slightest duty or even vague urge to examine whether it’s true or not.
There’s a difference, apparently. One reports the “fact” that someone said whatever-it-was they said. The other tyoe if journalist reports on whether what is being said is true. Plenty fo the former, but I’ve been hard-pressed to find any of the latter.
Antonio explained it all to us a few weeks ago. Quite simple, really, when you get the mindset right.
Thanks for that, Fiztig (#64). Interesting. So, 14 programs so far this year. We are in the first few months of a brand new government – and the preponderance of Insiders‘ coverage is given to members of the failed, former government. Wouldn’t political followers (audience) want to be seeing their new government given reasonable airtime for appraisal? Meet-and-greet etc? Staggering the coverage to those just ousted doesn’t make sense (or balance).
P.S. Hilariously, this is most likely Cassidy’s “revenge” for Rudd not going on his show just before the election.
Oh, flog me with a limp lettuce leaf, Barrie.
bluddy hell! if they keep putting that imitation cane toad Akerman on insiders i’m thinking of giving it up, the man’s a bloated ignorant dill and a waste of airtime, he definately isnt capable of balanced analysis or political nous, it’s bad enough with the dwarf and his ilk but the revered Piers is way over the top, after getting that off my chest i think i’ll go make a good strong cuppa to get my blood pressure down.
The good thing about “Insiders” is that only the politcal tragics are interested enough to watch it. The average Joe couldn’t care less. As far as the MSM is concerned, their view on Rudd is being ignored and has been since Rudd became leader. The polls show this. Piers is good for a laugh. What a waste of space.
The good thing about my Sunday mornings is that I have stopped watching The Insiders. They might as well rename it “Inside the Liberal Party”. If they wish to understand their own minds they should look up the philosophical definition of the “self-referrential fallacy”. I just spend an enjoyable hour reading the SMH instead. Then I logged onto Poll Bludger to read some on line opinions. Good bye TV News-tripe. I won’t miss you.
How often does Insiders get a scoop? Almost never. If a pollie wants to get an important message across that will have a good chance of flying early in the new week it will be via a door stop or 9s Sunday programme. Insiders is irrelevant.
So Dolly Downer wants to be Shadow Treasurer. And we all guessed that budget was going to do Nelson in, but instead it looks like it has done Turnbull in. Nelson has not improve, there is just no clear alternative given how poor a performance Turnbull has given in the past two weeks.
This can’t be good for them; Nelson is not cutting through and is about as popular as a fart in an elevator (amusing for a little bit but then just stinks). If can’t replace him as there is no acceptable alternative, their pain is only going to get worse.
Speaking of the SMH, there was an excellent article on Peak Oil, or perhaps as it should be called now “Peaked Oil”, beceause we have indeed passed the peak.
It is worth taking some time to understand this issue, which will have a significant impact on both poltiics and economcis over the next ten years. After that it won’t matter, because we will have either begun to transition the economy to new forms of transport energy or entered a long term recession.
In my view the best sources of information on Peak Oil are ASPO and the International Energy Agency. Their report “Medium Term Oil Market Report” of July 2007 really started the ball rolling. It can be downloaded from their website at http://omrpublic.iea.org/mtomr.htm
There are a couple of points to realise for Australia:
- world oil supply and demand are now roughly in balance; hence price spikes.
- on current trends by 2012 there will be a shortfall in oil supply of 11%
- Australia supplies 60% of its oil internally and imports 40%. However our supplies are light crude so we import a larger share of diesel (over 1/3)
- biofuels are not a viable solution even ignoring food price impacts. If all the cropland in Australia were converted to biofuel crop production we ‘d have no veggies or grain and still only have 30% of our fuel needs.
- We use about 75% of our oil for energy, the rest for making fertiliser and plastics. So oil price rises will increase prices of those too. Farmers will hurt.
- Of transport oil usage (2/3 overall) about half (1/3 overall) is petrol for cars. This can be reduced with more public transport in cities and more economcial cars.
- About 1/4th of overall oil use is diesel for freight trains and trucks. This is economicaly vital and has no easy substitute without years of work electrifying train lines. I believe the day may soon come when remaining oil stocks will be rationed towards this use.
So politically, in my view the Australian car industrie’s policy to make big sixes is a dinosaur. As is the AusLink rule where Federal transport funds do not go to urban public transport. At present only the mining-royalty-rich states (Qld and WA) can afford to invest in public transport. Finally, inefficient, incompetent and/or apparently corrupt transport organisations liek Sydney Rail must be reformed. We can’t afford to waste that many resources on something the nation needs to work properly.
Hope this wasn’t too much of a diatribe, but I work in this area for a living and I am concerned that urgent policy action is desperately needed.
Their ABC Online headlines
Petrol will always be cheaper under Coalition: Hockey
Downer leaving job decision up to Nelson
Petrol prices ‘threatening rural dialysis patients’
Minchin plays down Opposition fuel tax row
Then there’s this
“The Federal Government will review whether the GST charged on top of the petrol excise should be scrapped.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/25/2254856.htm?section=justin
Kev is pretty clever, he’s putting the public focus of the fuel prices back on the Libs by first talking about the Iraq invasion as a factor, the other night and now he’s brought up the hated GST on petrol. Everyone associates the GST with Ratty and Smirk.
I hope they get rid of the GST on electricity bills as well, that would be popular. Maybe if they still had a tax at a lesser rate and called it the enviroment tax. People would accecpt that and it’d help us reach our targets.
http://news.theage.com.au/national/labor-to-investigate-petrol-tax-changes-20080525-2hx3.html
“The tax inquiry will more broadly consider whether the entire petrol excise regime should be scrapped and replaced with a specially designed environmental tax.”
where is my Liberal Party sponsored free petrol? Why stop at five cents when they can make the stuff totally free?
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/05/brendan-didnt-go-far-enough-free-gas.html
Akerman claimed this morning that Rudd supported gay marriage and that he has the quotes to support it. I’ve just tried to find such quotes and all I could come up with were quotes saying he didn’t support it. What is Piers on?
Do you think there will be many people out there who know who Brough is?
78
“when the Brough breaks the baby will fall”???
Piers wouldn’t let the truth get in the way of his fantasies. I’ll really start to worry when ABC 7pm news starts using him and his quotes in their political news stories!
Rudd is as gay friendly as Fred Nile!!!!!
Petrol will always be cheaper under the Coalition? What is that? The ‘04 election campaign take 2?
In opposition Rudd was going to let the states and territory’s do whatever the wanted to do on Gay marriage or civic unions. But it seems he has changed his mind in Government, and threatened to over rule the A.C.T., which is why they didn’t go a head with their laws.
Ackerman is wrong to assert that Rudd supported gay marriage. Rather he was just going to leave it as a state and territory issue. I don’t know why he changed his mind.
He changed his mind because the territory didn’t do as he liked.
Seven News update is reporting that the Government is to scrap the GST on Petrol; I can see this being held up as evidence by the opposition in a few months as the government not doing as it has said. In reality it is just bad Journalism.
After Labor lost the 96 election, the party was strongly united behind Beazley and almost won the 98 election yet spent 11 years in opposition. Labor went on with a further three (Crean, Latham & Beazley again) opposition leaders before Rudd finally became PM.
The question that I ask is how many opposition leaders are the liberals going to go through before their next PM? Nelson, Turnbull, Abbott, Pyne, Downer, Costello, Hockey etc…
Julie might go through more partners than Debbie did doing Dallas. LOL
Maybe the problem could be with the media! The current crop of fat old lazy hacks are just not performing in being able to turn the opinion polls. It might be time for them (the media) to start considering some new talent.
“Petrol will always be cheaper under Coalition: Hockey”
When Hockey and Howard were in they allowed the petrol market and grocery to be controlled by two companies, little competition, no oversight and the philosophy that “there is nothing wrong with businesses seeking to maximise their profits”, ie charge what you want, it is free enterprise.
Oil hit over $80 a barrel during the Hockey/ Howard years and petrol $1.45 to $1.50 a litre, oil is now over 50% higher at $135 a barrell, and petrol at $1.55 a litre, probably would be higher at $2.00 a litre if the “maximise profits” mantra of Howard Hockey was still in.
The petrol/ retail inquiries of Rudd have probably slowed the profit gouging, the Woolworths boss admitted before the retail inquiry that they got a bigger margin (ie higher profits and prices) in Australia than New Zealand because of less competitors. I would assume this would apply to petrol too.
Who knows whether Rudd personally supports Gay marriage (who cares, it’s moot) Once he became leader he made decisions, formed and presented the various bits of their policy platform for election. On GM it was decided that if elected, the Rudd Gov would legislate to remove many/most (all?) of the various unfair doobies that affect gay couples(super, tax whatever) but they would NOT support Gay marriage. They won and he did exactly as was promised
No fault, no foul
What was great was that when Piers made the claim about Rudd supporting gay marriage on Insiders this morning, all the other panelists (David Marr, Misha Schubert and Barry Cassidy) all reacted with the same ‘what planet are you on and what have you been smoking’ reaction. Barry Cassidy even went as far as saying something like ‘we’ll wait and see the quotes in your next column’.
Gay Marriage
Yep – I agree that it’s discriminatory, but unfortunately, through many reasons, some purposeful, some not, it’s not that simple any more.
Sure, the government could show some leadership on the issue, but it seems that they’ve decided that they’re not going to.
At this point you can either argue with them, or change the underlying reason they disagree, which is very likely populist in origin. Given that they’ve decided they’re only going to go so far, I think pushing them is a bit of a waste of time. It’s the general population’s attitude that’s going to have to change before government will support it.
Rudd’s personal opinion is irrelevant – he’s the elected representative of an elected party.
Pies is a rather sickly cane toad who because is of his weirdness is not taken seriously except by pathological haters of Rudd.
I wonder what happened to Cassidy in the past. Maybe Keating gave him a few reality lessons and he has hated Labor since. Certainly his show is all about propping up the Liberals and down selling Labor. He would also be still smarting from the big slap across the face Gillard gave him when he was pouting over Rudd not attending his show. Cassidy ought to sit back and think, why would someone appear on his show when they know the only intention of the was to attack Rudd and Labor during an election period. And Cassidy pouts?
This 5% excise Nelson is chasing is pure nonsense and everyone knows it, including most of his party, but the press and Liberal spruikers will give it as much positive air as they can whilst trying to keep a straight face.
Can anyone imagine the state of the country if Nelson and his team were leading? God help us. You would have Bishop pushing WorkChoices 2 and 3 endeavoring to make legal slaves of everyone and, every liberal supporting enterprise being given government hand outs, Murdoch getting even more rewards in legislation and, an attempt to out-law the Labor party aka Thailand through whatever means they could. The economy being flooded with more handouts and middle class vote buying and inflation looking for 8%
And with the LNP now looking to kitchen table issues are getting into a battle about who can help the average Australian the best? If so then Labor has won and ‘turned’ the Liberal party. Maybe Rudd will end up Laborfying the Liberals – except they still need to kill of WorkChoices type stuff permanently. That will still be a killer if Bishop and Co still don’t publicly kill it off.
The blogging scandal in the Victorian Libs is still smouldering.
“THE Victorian Liberal party descended further into crisis last night, with allies of leader Ted Baillieu seeking to expel the young members involved in the recent blogging scandal, and one of the bloggers vowing to fight to stay in the party.
Speaking to The Sunday Age, John Osborn, sacked earlier this month along with fellow Liberal staffer Simon Morgan for setting up an anti-Baillieu blog, said last night that he considered moves for his expulsion from the party “as a double punishment for a single act, driven more by a desire for political scalps than regard for principles of procedural fairness”.
It is understood he will resist any attempts for a suspension or expulsion from the party and make use of all avenues of appeal under the party’s constitution, raising the spectre of months of destabilisation.”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/crisis-deepens-for-baillieu/2008/05/24/1211653824521.html
Liberals in Disarray
In the wake of John Howard’s electoral defeat, the Liberal Party is not only out of power federally, but also in every state and territory. A series of recent blunders and embarrassments by State Leaders and Senior staffers across the states certainly haven’t helped the situation. It’s left the former political party at its lowest ebb ever. Senior members of the party are now scrambling to find a solution to turn the party around.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/article_2459.asp
Interview: Jenny Macklin
May 25, 2008
LO: Sure, but Brendan Nelson’s promising a 5 cent a litre cut in petrol excise. You won’t do that. But what about the suggestion this morning that the Labor Government will consider dropping the GST component that’s imposed on petrol above the excise, a tax on a tax? Are you serious about looking at that?
JM: Well, that’s one of the issues that we will address in this major tax inquiry that the Treasurer announced, and he has announced the detail of that inquiry, that we will look at the issues that you’ve just outline and a wide range of other critical matters that haven’t been looked at for such a long time. So it is very important that we do that. But honestly, you wouldn’t know what the Liberal Party believes. I see that Alexander Downer now is considering coming back onto the front bench of the Liberal Party. He wants to be the Shadow Treasurer. I understand he’s indicated to some in the Liberal Party that he doesn’t think that the fuel policy that Brendan Nelson’s put forward is economically responsible or sensible. So, if Alexander Downer wants to come back onto the front bench, he should renounce that economically irresponsible policy, totally uncosted. It would see the Budget surplus wrecked by the Liberal Party, and I think if Alexander Downer’s serious, he needs to come out and renounce that policy immediately.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/political_transcripts/article_2463.asp
onimod Says:
May 25th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Come on get real, the reason why people like Rudd is you actually know what he stands for, even if you don’t agree and the party is in power because of the man.
Now I know I’m being a little bit blunt here but like it or not hetrosexual relations can involve something more than the relationship between the couple; that is marriage often ends up being about more than the two people involved. What I can understand is why homosexual couples can’t get over it and leave marriage and the family court to couples that are likely to result in families.
On the other hand if homosexuals want to go for civil unions why not, however as children are seldom involved I can’t see the civil un-union court ever being as messy as the family court.
William,
Can I suggest that you consider starting a thread on the Australian Joint Standing committee on electoral Matters – 2007 Federal Elections
The committee is currently reviewing the 2007 Federal Elections.
The Parliamentary web site can be found Here
One of the Issues I have placed on the agenda is the need to review the method used by the Australian Government in calculating the Australian Senate Surplus Transfer value and the method used in counting the ballot
The method of calculating the Surplus Transfer value MUST be based on the value of the vote and not the number of Ballot papers (See submission)
The other option I would like to see adopted is a reiterative counting system where the count is restarted on the exclusion of candidates the count continues until all vacant positions are filled without the need for further exclusions.
The current system was designed in the early 20th century to facilitate a manual count. With the use of electronic computerized counting it is possible to review the system used to ensure that the count reflects accurately the one vote one value principle and true proportionality of the ballot. The current system has serious errors built-in to the system that distorts the value and results of the election.
Hopefully the Joint Standing Committee will address these issues and adopt the recommendation contained in my submission.
This issue not only e3ffects the senate election but also other multi-member public elections as most tend to adopt the Australian Senate system. the distortion in the counting system currently used is more prevalent in those election where above the line party voting is not used. Ideally this should Abe address prior to the 2008 Victorian Municipal elections. Tis review is also of interest to State elctions
I would welcome any constructive discussion and debate on this issue
If anyone thought that Joe Hockey might be a goer as leader one day they might think again after his comments on The Insiders this morning.
Joe reckons the tax on alcopops is going to lead to girls getting the drinks spiked.
You only need to follow that line of thinking a little way to realise what he is thinking and saying.
JOE is saying this – If alcopops are too expensive then young girls wont get so drunk on them and so their drinks will be spiked. Huh?
Who will spike their drinks and why?
OK so girls not getting so drunk will not do the sort of thing they might do when drunk and so someone will spike their drinks to get them/force them to do what they wont?
It is fairly clear what Joe is on about with this comment. Young girls not getting so drunk so wont be available for being ‘voluntarily’ abused. Thus thinks Joe men will spike their drinks so as to still have their way, sexual assault, rape.
What he says can only mean that in Joe’s logic is that it is better for women to get drunk and have wanton sex than to stay sober, be drugged and raped.
Wonder no one has picked up on this in the press. It is a pretty low comment.
SO the Liberal party is trying to win votes off men who might miss out because of sober women?
Hockey is a scum bag. I read his comments early today and had a similar reaction. A decent, balanced interviewer wouldn’t let his comments pass without a serious test but he appears to have not been challenged. I’m surprised that he hasn’t advocated for the removal of all taxes on alcopops so that young men and women can get totally smashed for just a few bucks with little or no risk for their health or safety.
Honestly, this alcopops argument is the worst possible issue that the libs could have taken on board. They really are a shattered lot. Even Nelson knows that it is wrong but he is willing to put the safety of young women ahead of his own political survival – another scum bag for sure.
Did any of my Perth bloggers watch the 7pm news on ABC Saturday night, had TV on and getting ready to hit the town, when I’m sure the presenter of the news said that “the Rudd honeymoon is now over” . Is it possible to get a podcast or whatever of the daily 7pm news?
Just shows how low Barry Cassidy has fallen to let a horrible comment like that pass without seeking clarification.
I don’t watch ABC news anymore because of the tabloid lows it has sunk to. But my sister straps herself into the armchair, props her eyelids open with matchsticks, stuffs a gag in her mouth and watches it for me.
She’s in Sydney (as am I) and she reports to me tonight that “The Rudd honeymonn is over” line was also used on Sydney ABC TV news.
So it ain’t just Perth JC.
I seem to recall hearing that the scripts to anything bar local stories are compiled from the Sydney Newsroom.
It is awful policy from Nelson and one roundly condemned for years. Even Hilliary Clinton tried it for a little while then let it drop.
Apart from making a hole in the Budget, it neglects that a 5c reduction in price will quickly taken up by the fuel companies who wont miss the opportunity to make a bonus billion. Who is going to know if the fuel price increase of 5 cents over a month was natural movement or fuel companies filling the gap left by the excise reduction.
So Nelson basically wants to cut billions from Govt revenue and give it to fuel companies for what? A bit of political popularism that has already been half killed by dissent within his own ranks and economists generally.
What next? If a 5 cent reduction in fuel why not on other things taxed? Reduce tax and this and that? Nelson in his attempt at popularism would be willing to obliterate the economy?
But it is really Turnbull who has lost economic credibility. Trying to trash the Head of Treasury ( his own head only months ago) and the Reserve Bank Governor (his own Governor months ago), saying one thing then the opposite becomes evident…..well Turnbull has made a mess of it all.
Things have gotten so bad that even Downer thinks he might have a chance….now that really does show how bad the LNP has become. Downer was among the least acceptable before the election, for good reason, and now even he looks as good as the rest. They are all useless. Their only saving grace is that any opposition in a two party state will always garner a large percentage of the vote.
From the Radiowise newsletter.
http://www.radioinfo.com.au/news_item.php?id=7509
Unfortunately you have to be a paid up subscriber to read the full story.
Does anyone believe Rudd’s comment, that he has done all he can for working families, will cause him any political difficulties? The journalists and opposition seem to be going into raptures over it. I just don’t think it will have any effect.
I’ll say it again. Where were these pensioners last year?
Thx for the confirmation BB and FC. I wasn’t sure if I was hearing things. Is this the start of the confirmation that all things are over – our ABC saying so!!!
Funny all these people were so quiet during the Howard years. Too scared to speak up or think they might actually get something now that he is gone.
Why were they declaring Rudd’s honeymoon over?
Now, all, just got home after my birthday weekend. Did my own polling, during. Have not read your posts. The Labor voters of the less than analytical kind are seriously upset with Kevin. Particularly those who are not of yet pensionable age but entertain enormous sympathy for the elderly poor. Who think back, even to 1948, for whatever reason and oddly enough the year of my birth.
Who believe that Kevin implicitly, or more likely believe explicitly, that it was a lay down misere that Kev would deliver the pensioners, aged at minimum, instant financial relief. Not ifs, no buts, no review, but now! They expected it after the long, mean, Howard years. They were used to Howard failing to do a thing. They hoped and hoped. They expected Kevin to deliver. Click. They are seriously, not merely disappointed, totally disillusioned!
Well, its a good thing the pensioners make up a small part of the population, politically speaking. Having said that I believe they will do well out of Kev before the next election. Why didn’t they pressure Howard?
The other thing that must be said is that this anger is not showing up in the polls yet.
I said, will you hear, it was not the pensioners I was listening, listening to. I did not argue, I heard. These people are intending to hold the State Government responsible, in the first instance. For whatever reason, that is the deal.
I am not a pensioner .. just older than 25
well older than 50 also
I can’t say that Downer and Turnbull on the front bench would be good for the LNP. Turnbull will always be worried about Downer’s intentions. Nelson would be happy though, gives Turnbull something else to worry about.
Just imagine the back biting. We know how petulant Downer can be.
The honeymoon over?
What? They mean that Rudd’s lead might come down to normal levels now that the media has hand in hand with the LNP have spent 18 months trying to character assassinate Rudd? I guess Nelson and Co will be elated when Labor falls from the high 50s which it must do eventually.
It is inevitable that by the next election the Labor party will be maxing out at around the 55/45 level. But even that is a very large lead. It is inevitable because the novelty wears off, people who had unreal expectations will be disappointed, the press will have had 3 years of trying to assassinate Labor.
However if Rudd wins it will be great, if he does it with 53.5/46.5 that will be even better.
But to be honest, if the press was describing the Liberal party’s real performance and abilities and its policies truthfully, with honest analysis the general public wouldn’t go near the LNP. With the current group Australia would be at risk with these people in power.
The LNP and its team is absolutely awful with limited policy making talent or leadership talent. Lacking direction and who knows what their platform is? ARE the media really saying that this group are an acceptable alternative government?
If Rudd squeaks through the next election he should go through media ownership regulations with a flame thrower and most certainly divide up the ABC into an entertainment/education and news/current affairs group and, remove any future possibility of a neocon controlling thought police ever being appointed again.
And when Rudd retires one day just how much in demand would he be with the corporate world? Costello cant find a job, Rudd will be knocking them back.
Has anyone read Milne’s latest rant in the Oz?
Apparently the Labor candidate for Gippsland is a former mayor of somewhere or other who was also a Festival director. A year or more ago the festival included a production called Beautiful losers which was rather rude.
Shock, horror, the sky is falling on the Labor Party! An apocoplypse is about to descend!
Is this goose for real?
I believe pensioners will be a large demographic for ABC TV which means they would have seen Rudd on TV the other night.
I have no doubt that the Labor election machine is in full swing planning.
It would be good if the Labor States got themselves into proper order soon, especially NSW where they are ruining the brand name. They ought to be careful or get caught out like Howard did. Along will come a Rudd type and all of a sudden they (NSW Liberal) decide to be coherent for 5 seconds until the election.
Yes, I do know how to spell apocolypse.
I do mean to say, that none to whom I have listened has expressed an intention to vote Liberal, federally next time, yet. Obviously and because there is nowhere to go.
The disillusionment and clear sense of entrapment may easily result in a backlash against State Labor, which they seem in my State at least, to be pretty well asking for. Tasmania thread speaks for itself.
Of course, it is the responsibility of the murdoch press to make sure Labor doesn’t get elected in Gippsland. Any stupid little thing will be news if it can be spun in a negative manner. Don’t assume that these people are jounalists.
Turnbull will be starting to get nervous about now. It will dawn on him that he will have to debate Rudd three times during the next election campaign. By then Rudd will be well and truly polished and more impressive than usual. Turnbull will still be the waffling wind bag.
IMHO, the problem with Nelson’s 5 c/l excise cut isn’t what it does to the budget, but that it’s a diversion and impediment to tackling the problem.
The fact is that the combination of peak oil and climate change is propelling us into a new paradigm that will require new solutions, not desperately applying band-aids in a vain attempt to retain the status quo. That simply is no longer possible.
However, I don’t get a sense that the government has grasped the extent of the problem either. Its thinking also seems to be fixated on managing the consequences of escalating petrol pricing instead of working on alternative transport solutions. The plans to remove LPG subsidies being just one example.
fizdig at 64, i’ve posted about this before. I cant believe how many opposition MPs have been the guest on Insiders, and other ABC shows, and coverage on the news. The ABC is a complete joke
Crikey and any others,
I am curious exactly who amoung the pensiones is sayign they are bitterly dissappointed? I don’t mean to identify individuals but demographic groups. Please be specific about age groups and status. I strongly disagree with the notion that all pensioners need more money. Some do (eg disabled & carers), but many don’t. Statistically, those 55 to 70 are the wealthiest group in our society. Curiously, the over 75s are actualy poorer than the generation after them. So who exactly is saying this?
I raise this question again because if there is one group in our society who are in for a rude shock in the next decade, it is those imagining they can retire at 55 and comfortably live till 80+ at public expense. Unless you are in the top 5% of income earners (hence no pension neede) it isn’t possible. The numbers just don’t add up. Retirement at 55 was always a pyramid scheme paid for by population growth and all the working women who had to give up their jobs when they got married in the 50s and 60s. Pension schemes were started with payouts at age 65 when male life expectancy was about 68. Now with people starting work later and living longer, retirement also needs to be delayed.
Anyone who dobts what I say should study the social history of what happened to Sweden and Finland in the 1980s and 90s with their low populaiton growth and long life expectancy. They had to change some of their retirement income schemes because they were unsustainable. France and Germany are now grappling with the same problem.
Time to put an end to this idyllic illusion (fully funded retirement before 65+).
Further to my previous post, here is a link to a good paper on Swedish pension reforms
http://www.nek.uu.se/pdf/wp2002_6.pdf
Good news Labor and the PM have done all they physically can to provide help with the Family Budget! Lol!
JOM
Obviously they haven’t done all they could. The trouble is they have already done more than they should. Nor have they cut all the fat that should have gone, including some business welfare, which is absurd in a booming economy. See Ross Gittin’s column this morning, which isn’t flattering for Rudd or Nelson:
http://business.smh.com.au/rudd-needs-to-start-leading-20080525-2i1p.html?page=1
Socrates #127,
You should be emailing the link to the PM and the Labor Party for the PM said, we (I assume the Labor Party) have done all they physically can to provide help with the Family Budget.
What was Howard doing for 11.5 years if Rudd has done everything in 6 months?
Good question John, but I really don’t think you want to be reminded of the answer!
Cheers Fulvio would it go something like this being Australia most successful Prime Minister?
JOM
By Howard’s Lies, that is an exaggeration of almost Liberal proportions!
Ah John, thinks he sees a head to kick and pops his up to be kicked. The conservatives (medis included) think they have Rudd on this and that everyone out in voter land now hates him. The average person wouldn’t even know he said it. The next set of polls will continue to show Nelson a dud and the Libs languishing.
Successful at what exactly?
Here’s your opportunity to trot out the campaign lines again.
Guess what – they didn’t work at the last election – didn’t convince a majority.
an the reason they’ll work now is…(fill in the blank)?
He might have been successful in your own little world, but that’s exactly the problem. Some perspective beyond your immediate is required.
Please.
Lol, Howard was yesterdays man, todays man, Kevin Rudd, has declared he’s finished the job just 6 months into a new government, I suppose it leaves him with more time with Cate, Hugh and the rest of the gang.
Howard was a successful PM? Successful at being the second PM to lose his seat. Wow he was well liked.
One would think four terms would be considered a success.
JOM
Just because I try to be honest in assessing Rudd’s performance for better and worse, doesn’t mean I can’t also recognise the extraordinary degree of dishonesty and mediocrity that characterised Howard’s government. In fact, I saw some at first hand.
Howard was successful at getting himself elected four times, not much else. Even if that is your only criteria for success (election) Howard is obviously inferiro to Menzies, so there is no rational criteria by which Howard could be described as Australia’s most successful PM. For economic criteria, growth rates of GDP and GDP per capita were far higher in the 60s, so you can forget about claims along those lines to. Howard was cunning not clever and in terms of outcomes just lucky, plus frankly he faced an opposition that was weak in defending Labor principles (sorry Kim but its true). Thats the only reason he got elected four times.
If election is your only yardstick for a politician’s success, given that Howard is one of only two sitting PMs to lose his own seat, does that make him our second most unsuccessful PM?
Is this the same JoM.
I thought you were a bit deeper than news.com.au comments previously?
Oh, now you want to cut Howard loose John (yesterday’s man). I would too if I were you. He wasn’t that good.
Gary #135, JWH sould have done the Beazley thing and looked for a safe seat?
I’m trying Onimod.
Up until now Rudd had shown a polished performance he went into the election giving the perception that he could stop prices from rising now he has said he has done all he can after 6 months… To quote Seinfeld, “It’s gold Jerry, Gold!”
What do you think of Nelson John? Will he last?
Do you think Rudd’s comment will save Nelson?
John, it’s only gold for those who take any interest in politics. It will go over most people’s head. It will certainly be forgotten when the Libs change leaders.
I like Nelson he has done a great job and should be given at least a year to 1.5 years to prove himself.
Will he last… I think it depends on how much he persues Rudd over his comment and yes Rudd’s comment did save Nelson. Which ever way the petrol price debate goes it will forever be known as Nelson’s baby. If prices continue to go up people will ask how come we have to wait a year to see if a review recommends GST excise be removed.
So if/when petrol prices reach $2.00 people will thank “thank heavens they are now only going to be $1.95. I don’t know about you John but that really doesn’t do much for me.
First “thank” should be “say”.
Are you really suggesting John that if Labor brings the petrol price down people will be thinking to themselves “Brendan did that”? Hardly.
Tell us the old old story JOM. First he is just going to stay until the budget, now it is the end of the year, then it will be till the budget next year, then till the end of next year, then, hell why not keep him till the next election?
My used by date for Nelson is this Wednesday’s Party room meeting anything past there is just being deliberately damaging to the Australian economy by ensuring political uncertainty.
Gary I do see your point and yes it is valid but 5 cents reduction across the board means other commodities will also be cheaper.
Plus its action now, Rudd seems to or at least I have the impression delay things and pass it onto reviews etc. Make a decision and stick by it.
Exactly what the Libs should do on Wednesday decide to dump Nelson and stick to the decision.
Steve Rudd’s comment saved Nelson. The only people to benefit in a change of Leadership in the Coalition would be Labor.
Gary, #148 depends how much blood the Libs extol.
JOM,
The problem is that if the excise is changed in 12 months or whatever, the heat goes out of the issue and leaves the Libs with very little to say other than “We support the Government’s moves”. Not a vote changing message.
The real problem with petrol at the moment is that oil is $130 per barrel and that the cost of running a car has escalated so quickly. The adjustment to family budgets is the issue causing most of the pain. Again, if petrol returns to $80 then the heat also goes out of the issue. Most people can see this although the commentariat, as always, have their egg beaters in over drive. Those paid to be outraged are outraged. Some people may be spouting off, but whinging has always been a national sport and is not always reflective of how they will vote in 2-3 years.
Tax cuts come in to play July 1, so people will have a little more in their pockets to cope.
Steve, Nelson’s 5 cent cut in petrol excise has the PM on the back foot why would you get rid of Nelson now?
JoM nothing can save Nelson. Clear the decks and get serious. The problem for the Libs is that they are unable to make tough decisions and stick to it.
John, at 5c off all commodities people will laugh at how little that is. Besides who is to say when you take the 5c off petrol that that will not be eaten up very quickly. It is tokenism at best. Why do you think Costello and Howard rejected the idea. By the way they also rejected taking the tax off a tax in regard to petrol. Not only did they not act they didn’t even check it out.
This notion that a government just needs to act rather than review the options fascinates me. As Costello used to say we have a trillion dollar finally balanced economy and Nelson wants quick decisions that are half thought through. Of course if the government did act quickly and it went horribly wrong, guess what Nelson would be saying then? Does the term “policy on the run” sound familiar?
hmmm? what was that about honeymoon & over?
somebody had better tell these good folk!
“Mr Rudd’s arrival though sparked massive interest with many Traralgon shoppers stopping to chat and have their photographs taken with the PM during his walk through the CBD.
Mr Rudd did not rule out another visit to the electorate before the by-election. ”
http://latrobevalley.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/pms-endorsement/776792.aspx
Bugger – “finally” should be “finely”.
GG I agree with what you said about adjustment. You said, “whinging has always been a national sport and is not always reflective of how they will vote in 2-3 years” Rudd rode on the back of whinging all the way into office.
JoM, just declare Nelson’s honeymoon over and move on. Nothing wrong with politicians getting out while they are ahead is there?
“PM opens Kirribilli to charities”
I bet the Rodent is spewing.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/pm-opens-kirribilli-to-charities/2008/05/26/1211653887495.html
I think it’s Gold in the Howard world John – where people abrogated their responsibility to read a little deeper into the crap that politicians spout.
The electorate believed everything Pete and John said up until their sham relationship was exposed and trust was lost.
Somewhere in the last 3 years the electorate divorced their view from that of the former government and slowly started to understand what politicians were capable of influencing, what they weren’t, what they should be commenting on, and what they had no right to. it made them realise the ride they’d been taken on. There is now a slightly more than capable understanding of the effect of international factors on our domestic situation.
In short, Rudd does not treat the electorate for a bunch of fools and simpletons that the Murdoch press, former government and current opposition market themselves to.
Now, you can either throw your hat in to the ring with the above listed jokers, or you can sit on the sidelines [even join in if you're so inclined] and wait for the next crop of intelligent conservative politicians to evolve.
Paring the world down to the Glen Milne view from the gutter, where stealing your older brother’s Hustler magazine when you were 10 means the apocalypse is coming is a PROVEN LOSING STRATEGY.
Yes, Rudds statement might have been spun in to a real negative in the pressure cooker atmosphere of the last two weeks of a campaign, but in the context of the first year of a new government it’s meaningless.
The mistake both the opposition and press are making is that the little things are only meaningful when they form the incisive indicator of the big picture; otherwise they are ignored.
The big picture is that one of the most popular new Prime Ministers, and his competent government have changed the direction the country is moving in, and the electorate likes it.
Sure – they liked the previous lot once, but times have changed. The past has gone.
GB, You are right it is tockenism at it best and tockenism feeds perception. If 5 cents is so insignificant then why are 4 cent shop a dockets so popular?
More importantly why are 4c shop a dockets so ineffective in creating positive perceptions against world oil price rises?
#162
Nice post onimod. Perceptive. And hopefully accurate in that the past has gone. Time will tell. I’m mildly optimistic.
John, there are people out there who use the dockets, Im not one of them, but they would be in the minority. The higher the price of petrol goes the more insignificant 5c a litre seems and in reality is. By the way John can you explain to me how Nelson would pay for the 2 billion dollar shortfall in the budget each year, the cost of giving everyone 5c off? This policy is a dog. Costello and Howard were right, not to mention Turnbull, Downer and Hunt.
Onimod, Rudd sold the perception that he can do something about rising prices etc and now he has turned around after simply six months and said there is not much more I can do. If prices keep going up he’ll know about it!
Wish I had thought of that Steve (164). Bloody good question.
GB there is a 22bn surplus… I’m sure Labors, so called razor gang will find the money.
HANG ON … tax Alcopops
No John, Rudd sold the idea he would have a go at doing something (unlike the then government) but emphasised “there is no silver bullet”. The press and opposition, for political purposes, are creating the perception you are talking about.
Steve I don’t know.
If memory serves me correctly didn’t Swan in his shopping with Swanny guide on youtube prior to the federal election last year advocate the use of shop-a-dockets as one way of keeping prices down?
So what services or programs do you want to see cut to pay for this EVERY year, good or bad economic times. I say that because once its in woe be tide the government that has to remove it.
JOM 169
Are you suggesting that the coalition will pass such tax measures in the Senate? Or are they still playing economic vandal while pretending to care about the nation?
171 JoM, I do think that the world oil price might have moved a little bit since then.
JoM, I also seem to remember that at the start of the Iraq war opponents were tipping the price of oil to go over the $100 per barrell mark and the Howard government assuring us that it wouldn’t.
BG no need to cut we have a surplus!
Socrates we’ll have to wait and see.
Steve just a bit
BG no need to cut we have a surplus!
Socrates we’ll have to wait and see.
Steve just a bit
JoM, glad you repeated the comment, it was much more interesting the second time around. So waste the surplus propping up and subsidising oil companies is now good economics is it JoM?
Lol the Iraq. I believe on Insiders yesterday Piers Ackerman showed a graph highlighting the Iraq war has played a minor role in the price of oil. Things must be going good in Iraq, The Age hasn’t bagged GWB aboutit for a while now.
Yes, it is sheer genius to take a whole oil producing country out of the world supply chain.
Steve, 178, What’s Rudds suggestion? Oh that’s right he’s thrown in the towel after 6 months.
Steve, 180, so Iraq isn’t selling any oil to the world?
Let me say it again John. 2 billion dollars out of the budget A YEAR to prop up a token gesture (you agreed it was) through good and bad economic times. You believe that is good financial mangement? Costello and howard disagreed with you. I can find the quotes of Howard saying why that was bad economics John if you like.
You continue with this distortion of Rudd’s comments John and then build a case aound the distortion.
It certainly isn’t anywhere near full production.
JoM
If you relying on Akerman (correct spelling) then your case is pretty desperate!
Thomarse, anything to save Nelson’s hide on Wednesday morning is the liberal game being played at the moment. They don’t want to face the truth that his time is up, honeymoon over and time to leave.
I’m sorry John but clinging on to this one comment of Rudd’s like it’s a lifeline smacks of desperation. As I said earlier, for most people it will pass about a kilometre of their head. The parliament watchers and political fanatics (probably the same beast) will get something out of it but that’s about all. Nelson will still be seen as inadequate and the Libs in turmoil and Rudd will still be seen a the necessary new broom.
Even dolly Downer can see Leadership sharks circling, why can’t JoM?
I guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out.
I’ve said my piece.
I’ll look for a new topic now..
So much so that Downer would rather join the feeding frenzy of the leadership pack than be a diplomat.
I saw the Q & A program on ABC last thursday night and when the Prime Minister said he had done all he could – HE WAS REFERRING TO THE BUDGET.
So there John of M – and all the journos know it!
The journos should all get together, lock themselves up in a room and bang each other senseless over their frustration that Rudd is on track to being the best PM Australia has had since the second world war. Yes.
Has there ever been a more stupid and idiotic populist policy than cutting the excise by 5 cents.
The oil companys would be laughing. How do you know if the price goes up that it is due to global oil prices or not.
The liberals are a mess. Labor under Latham were even far more competent.
191
Don’t get caught in the same prophesy world the Fibs and their supporters are in.
For most politicians, especially the Fibs, just reaching office is the goal – hence the lack of relevant policy development and implementation once they get there.
Good decisions take time to implement and even longer to evaluate.
The ‘quick fix’ mentality that’s developed over the last decade or two has shown itself to be not very reliable politically, or in the evaluation of the politics either.
As fred also pointed out at 165, I’m cynically optimistic, no more.
Rudd has just warned in Question time that whichever of the five prospective Liberal leaders is responsible for blocking budget measures will pay a huge price.
The first hint of a double dissolution hit on the Liberal Party possibly.
“The member for Wentworth is going so bad that even Alexander Downer wants his job ”
Goodonya Swanny.
Michelle Grattan, in today’s Age, talks about the destructive instability brewing between Turnbull and Nelson. The leaked email from Turnbull expressing his dissatisfaction with Brenda’s 5c gimmick has done ongoing damage to both players. She predicts more leaks to come from Liberal HQ, symptomatic of a declining discipline which set in before the election.
She contrasts their situation with that of Labor, who, she says, have been “tight as a drum” since a year before the election.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-leaks-that-make-a-politicians-life-a-misery/2008/05/22/1211182996702.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Nicola Roxon got under the skin of Joe Hockey and the rest of the Opposition over alcopops once again today. Julia Gillard gets all the plaudits as a parliamentary performer, but my favourite minister in QT is Roxon.
#106 Rx
Nitpick: that article is from the 23rd
Lindsay Tanner told the Opposition that they were “giving a rabble a bad name”.
GG@153
Think you’re spot on there re oil. Plus we are already a low-excise nation in terms of taxing fuel (the US is of course the lowest). As we head on up to the $200/barrel mark (although I think this is an exaggerated mark in the short-term) changes to excise will have a diminshing value to people. However, alternatives to the car will become more important, yet we are not making the provisions and expenditures there that will be required. I note from todays Daily Telegraph (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23756325-5006009,00.html)
that there are charges that RailCorp is struggling with systemic incompetence (although any commuter could tell you that, and apparently today did, at a RailCorp press conference). Although Iemma is about announce another 150 buses are to be bought (for $112m), this isn’t going to alleviate the fact that many of Sydney’s roads are already at capacity. Substantial funding for all forms of public transport might help, but then all Australia city’s should be planning for this too.
Triton #197 Thank you, my mistake.
StewartJ @199,
There is however, opinion that the sudden surge in oil prices in recent months is a bubble that will burst.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/22/oil.bubble.economics
199 Stewart J
It still strikes me as a bit silly that the talk is still all about the pain and how someone else might relieve it for us. There are plenty of cities and even whole countries who have made conscious decisions about what the solutions are/might be, and yet we’re still worried about what the next tank of petrol might cost after a decade of unprecedented national income. How did that happen?
Australians addictions to cars, and big ones at that, really confuses me when I come back from overseas. It’s like we’re living in this little bubble that can’t look outward.
I guess the point is that when the furthest an opposition can see is a tax on alcopos, then I think we’re a long way from being ‘relaxed and comfortable’.
Just a point on your last sentence about how we should be planning. One of the main reasons for a lack of suvccessful planning process is the fact that future planning will change things, and that will be universally unpopular. Who has been supporting plannning change? None of us. In fact governments have been explicitly and implicitly been telling us there’s no need for change for some time now. Overcoming our culture of selfishness is going to be incredibly painful for some.
201
A bubble it may be, but is that any security against it bubbling again, and again, and again?
The oppostion failed to lay a glove on the government in Question Time today. And they copped quite a bit of stick themselves. Where to now?
204 BK – I was about to write the same thing myself. If that’s the best they can do the opposition have real problems. The government took them apart. The opposition lacked passion and conviction.
JOM would have to have been disappointed with that effort if he saw it.
205 Gary – Today’s session was probably as lame as they have had so far – and that’s saying something!
Really, they will get nowhere until they can pull together a coherent and consistent new brand that offers something for the medium to long term. And this begs the question of who can properly and convincingly represent this to the electorate.
204 Agreed. They looked like a pack of whingers. Bishops personal remarks look petty and weak; Nelsons mock outrage over 5cents; Hockey’s tantrums. It’s still the politics of extremes, and if your opponent didn’t say something extreme, you just exaggerate like an 8 year old and make what he said sound extreme anyway.
Sure – it’ll get people looking at you, but when they’re looking you’d better have something to say that makes them forget the original petulance.
It’s brainless stuff.
A good high school debating team could tear them apart at the moment.
It’s what comes from having no platform of your own to talk about.
Where to…?
The next newspoll.
Busy day today. Lots of people to visit and see about various projects. So I wanted to get off to a fresh start with the clean taste of toothpaste in my mouth and not regurgitated bile.
Which is why I didn’t read Glenn Milne’s column in The Australian until 4.30pm.
Is this guy back on the sauce again? Either that or it’s Glenn, and not the Phoenix Voyager who is sending those pikkies and data back from Mars or whatever planet he is currently on… (because it’s clearly not this one).
“Earth to Glenn Milne…. come in… Earth to Glenn Milne…”
“[crackle...hiss...sputter]“
First there was this, on Rudd and Labor in general:
And then this, on the candidate for Gippsland:
Beautiful Losers, indeed. Rudd, like Howard before him, is about to learn there’s nothing beautiful about losing.
“Worst week”? “His own inadequacy”? “Rudd’s failings”? “Impression nationally”? “Beautiful losers”?
Somehow or other Rudd is written up by the Tiny Poisoned One as being responsible for high petrol prices, sexploitation of young children and therefore his own political demise (which, forgive me for pointing this out) hasn’t shown up in any polls yet. … must be one of those “delayed effects” Glenn and Dennis keep on telling us about.
Meanwhile Nelson has seized the national agenda from Mr. 75%:
Just as you think it’s safe to go out in the dark again those “elites” (in this case, of the economic variety) come to scare the horses and cast aspersions on the common sense of practical Aussie voters who believe that it’s OK to ruin the budget bottom line in a futile gesture that will be swallowed whole by the oil companies in one month of price gouging and manipulation (i.e. “the market”) without so much as a burp to wash it down with. By the way, one of those elites would be Malcolm Turnbull, Shadow Treasurer and Leadership Hopeful, who reckons slicing a measly 5c of petrol is a stupid, silly idea and bad policy, too. But let’s not that get in the way of a good elite-bashing.
But of course, as Glenn would remind us: he doesn’t want to be Prime Minister. We’re not talking about policy. here We’re talking about The Politics. Completely different story. and this is where Glenn’s genius comes to the fore. The Little Man with the Big Question.
In The Politics Rudd is a perv-supporting loser who’s own inadequacy and failings are becoming a national embarrassment to everyone but himself. Nelson, on the other hand, although prepared to wreck the Budget with his excise scam that will never be put into effect, is some kind of political genius, and everyone would admit this if only it wasn’t for those pesky,pointy-headed elites who point out that enacting his 5c reduction in petrol excise would be inflationary, pointless and tantamount to fiscal self-mutilation on a grand scale.
Whadda they blardy know, Glenn? Eh? They’re just every financial, business, journalistic and economics expert (including the Shadow Treasurer) in the blardy country. Blardy elites. They should just pi$$ off and leave Rudd to wallow in his own ineptitude?
Blimey, Glenn: whatever spirituous or other liquid you’re into at the moment, give it up baby! It’s ruining what few brain cells you have left in that small, but perfectly-formed little head of yours. We want you around for the comedy of what you write, not to manufacture self-parodies like today’s effort and ruin it all. It’s all about verisimilitude, internal consistency, suspension of disbelief. If you write too many of these clangers we don’t think you’re funny any more.
We do the laughing. You do the writing. But not too silly, or else we think you’ve gone peculiar all of a sudden.
Got it, Glenn?
This morning on 3AW Alison Carabine (Canberra political journalist) stated that the opposition and Nelson had a spring in his step and that Rudd had presented them with a stick to hit the government over the head with. So much for the spring in the step and the stick. May the government be hit that hard from now on. It’d be like being hit with wet lettuce.
Alison on radio now says this because of the petrol price rises. “This could be the end of Kevin Rudd’s honeymoon.” Very negative against Rudd.
“The opposition is winning the political war on this.” What a bloody joke.
After a party loses office, many of its publicity people have to find new jobs in the mainstream media. They’re a ready-made propaganda unit for their old employers. In the Adelaide Advertiser, for example, not only do we find a weekly column by Alexander Downer’s former chief of staff, Chris Kenny, but there’s also one by Alexander himself. Compounding the situation, a lot of Labor sympathisers in the MSM have now moved to jobs with the new government. leaving the field open for the doomsayers and knockers. It happens both ways. Such is life.
How on earth are journalists canvassing the views on the Australian population from bloody Canberra?
This could be the end of civilisation too, but I doubt it, and I’m sure there’s equally as much evidence at this stage.
A journalist she is not.
I do hope Glenn Milne is reading Pollbludger, and esp Bushfire Bill at208. He needs some feedback but doesn’t seek it. I realised only today, courtesy of Crikey, that he (GM) does not open his Australian column up to comments.
Interesting that the previous federal government was one of the sponsors of the Gippsland Arts festival that has fueled Milne’s righteous indignation ( information courtesy of PM).
CL,
Andrew Landeryou was all over that this morning.
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/05/gross-hypocrisy-nats-score-own-goal-in.html
‘elite economists’
do you think Milne was straining a bit there? Far out!
Neither channel 9 or 7 news services (Melbourne) had anything on federal politics tonight, that’s how much impact they thought the opposition had.
This has got to be about the base. Australia was not settled by Puritans and mainstream Australia is not easily socked (eg. They watched “Underbelly” by the millions).
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alp-candidate-backed-offensive-show/2008/05/26/1211653901960.html
Phil, it’s been bad enough skipping my afternoon talkback program after Dolly and his missus infested the studios, but the worse insult is to have to skim past the issues section of the Advertiser {my favourite part} every monday morning because Dolly’s ego has him thinking we want to hear his fatuos meanderings,for heavens sake someone point the ‘man’ to the exit and push him through,a good many South Australians would be extremely grateful.
The Libs got crucified in QT today – what odds on a censure motion tomorrow?
Interesting poll. People tend to support Nelson’s petrol plan but not Nelson as leader.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23761023-5001028,00.html
Why not ask them if want their cake and to eat it too?
217 Ha
I thought Nelsons outrage moment was spectacular enough to make the news.
Mustn’t have filled the 7 seconds.
Milne -
You’d swear he wouldn’t have time with ‘teh insiders’ with his unbending attendance to a particularly strict church all day Sunday wouldn’t you?
Nah.
He’s just mixing someone else’s puritanical beliefs with his own navel gazing. Surprising that it’s only fluff he’s managing to find, isn’t it?
221
what’s wrong with “7″?
It’s a perfectly good number.
Will Mr Rudd come out and publically support the number seven?
The classic in that poll is the combined 49% support for:
a) Nelson or Costello or Allbull
b) none of the above or couldn’t give a rats
that’s right – b)
Yep, Nelson’s got Rudd on the ropes now…
clowns
Glenn Milne’s personal attributes and drivers are well known and those who’ve dealt with him will always – for the rest of their lives in most cases – hold strong views about his trustworthiness and accuracy.
But don’t you reckon that flaming the hell out of the commentariat is pretty weak because they are having a go at the Government (albeit one most of us like)?
Ain’t that their job comrades?
And isn’t he making some relevant points along the way?
225 emily
the problem is the content, not the job
I haven’t seen most of them make a relevant point for years, mostly because most of them want to make the news rather than report it an analyse it. It’s the chicken little problem. Earwax is important, and yet the reasons for going to war in Uraq weren’t. Alcopops are vital, and yet the bungling in the federal police isn’t.
I could go on.
Besides, if they can’t hold themselves to account, are we supposed to ignore it?
Fair point onimod, I don’t mean to say the fourth estate is beyond reproach. I’m just dropping in and no doubt reading a bit of preciousness in when I’ve missed the guts of the debate.
It’d be a bad run if the press wasn’t having a go, and there’s a bit to have a go at, while the Opposition bleeds out for the next three months.
214
Constant Lurker, I heard that too on PM. laughed, and thought, could Brendon (I’m a doctor) possibly find another foot to stick in his mouth, being a doctor, he might be able to find it. Not know what to do with it, other than what he traditionally does with it, but still, he knows it’s a foot.
225.
Emily, I think you’ll find that some people who post here take a very close look at not only what is reported but how it is reported, also, at how, for instance, so called ‘balance’ at the ABC, isn’t, when you look at, for example, the content of stories over a day. Today’s Online reporting was a good example. Have a look at it and tell me there isn’t something strange going on.
The petrol watch scheme is a fantastic concept. It WILL WORK in lowering prices because, for the first time, motorists will be able to compare the price of petrol offered by providers in a practicle way.
The opposition squirm eveytime they hear about it. I think it was Wilson Tuckey who called out in parliament today that it was their idea and labor copied it.
Can you believe it! LOL, one second they oppose it and the next they say labor copied it.
Turnbull, Abbott, Hockey, Downer and Cossie had better be careful! If the MSM keep giving Brenda so much oxygen, he might just lead the party to the next election.
Harry, I did enjoy the irony of Erica talking about media freedom in Parliament House. It’s almost Monty Pythenesque.
I also saw Albo bagging McGauran, numerous state government responses and attacks, and of course Brendan Nelson and the art show.
It would be wonderful if the MSM actually undertook non-partisan reporting and analysis of government actions and policy as well as those of the Opposition. It is something that is badly needed.
But of course as all know and admit – the Murdoch press is basically there to support right wing politics and politicians regardless of quality, the SMH cant make up its mind and The Age is usually a left wing paper.
There are a core group of journalists well known to all that are the hard line Howard and Liberal party lovers and undertake at every opportunity to sell down labor and help the LNP. It is not about fact or proper analysis, just supporting the side they support. The ABC since the thought police were appointed now also do their bit for the Liberal party when they can.
That is the result of 11 years of hard line Howardism.
Milne’s piece is nothing unusual. I suspect when he needs a story he puts his hands down his pants and pulls out a handful to smear across his sheets and calls it journalism. But we are all used to him but he is know where near as bad and redeemable as the Cane Toad.
If you want to hear some decent non-partisan political discussion and analysis watch News Hour on SBS or listen to the BBC. Unfortunately not Australian politics.
I was too busy today and missed all of QT! Was it worth listening too?
Emily, theres political commentators having a go and making a point {thats their job} and then theres so called commentators such as Akerman, Milne and Shanahan who have made it their lifes work to twist and weave anything about the Rudd government into a negative and to laud whatever the coalition does into a shining positive–no matter how illogical.
I dont think anyone in this blog has a problem with honest fair comment about the Rudd government be it good or bad, even some of the died in the wool bloggers here sometimes have a dig at Rudd, theres been some commentators who have earned complete respect for their balanced reporting but unfortunately they’re few and far between, the late Matt Price was one of these–we miss him dreadfully, unfortunately a lot of the current lot are still in la la land and hav’nt accepted that theres been a government change and are still mentally tied to Howards apron strings, this will change with time but untill then all we can do is keep pointing out their comments are complete crap in todays politics.
phew that was a mini novel from me, when is the next newspoll due please? I’ve lost count of the weeks.
Kina, it was a good QT for Labor, but of course the MSM don’t report it that way. I think Swan is developing into our best performer. Also the liberals hated listening to ( forgot his name, memory blank) the assistant treasurer on the fuel watch scheme.
I would like to see the Speaker silence the house everytime the opposition interjects or hurls abuse. They should be made to sit there, on their hands while listening to the government in silence. And if they explode into space, good, all the better!
7 news in Sydney actually had a feel good story about Kev opening up Kirribilli House to charities to use for fund raisers.
The last part said “A view that was only enjoyed by the elites (showing a clip of the Rodents) now used to help those in need”
Video here
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=248153&cl=7978333&ch=248154&src=y7news
211 The Opposition is winning the war on petrol prices…
I think the Libs have spooked Labor on Petrol Prices, although they have not been able to take many points it has made Labor say something stupid, that being looking at the GST on excise which may be about taking off the GST.
For once i agree with economists, doing such would be economically stupid, it is time the Rudd Government had some guts and stated the obvious, oil is running out and therefore we must start looking at alternatives such as Public Transport.
But of course the Labor party seems to have little talent in its ranks which can adequately explain the current oil crisis. Instead a three cent cut would be far better- yep a three cent cut and what difference would this make?
Would have better to attack Nelsons’ stupid policy instead of falling for it, thus Nelson has enticed them and they have fallen for it.
When is Four Corners going to provide us with some quality Australian journalism again- instead of nothing stories like tonight.
Hey Judy nice to have a fellow lurker! I am no fan of Milne but I think he’s in a different category to Ackerman. Although I might be biased, Piers once wrote a column arguing that I was an international socialist in (god forbid) the SMH. Matt Price would be doing his job right now, picking apart the Government, were he still with us, and annoying the hell out us if he were here, and we are all the poorer for his absence.
And Centre, that’s a great approach when your side is in power, I would (and did) hated that stance over the past decade. So I reckon it would be pretty lame of me to try and impose constraints on Parliamentary interjections when the side I like is in power.
I agree Rudd would have been better off ridiculing Nelson on the fuel excise debate for the pointless policy it would be. I mean, he has plenty of ammunition, even from Nelson’s side. Rudd could have made a few points out of this one.
Reviewing or removing the GST on the excise is only tokenism and wont make much difference to anyone except a decent drop in revenue.
Not to labour the point, but journalists used to be in some ways self policing. If they didn’t do it to themselves the driest of the dry – the cartoonists – would do it for them.
These days the only people left in Canberra long term are the supporters of either side, whose very existence is dependant on the drip feed from one side of the other, or the short termers who are looking for a newsreaders job somewhere (anywhere but Canberra).
In the past no self respecting journo would put themselves in the shadow of a party for fear of national ridicule. Unfortunately it’s become de rigueur. Journalists are their own worst enemy at the moment because they’re not calling each other out, and selling each other, and themselves, down the plughole.
At present Rudd is eschewing the former regime’s suckholes and they’re running around like petulant little children. What’s more, even if they were inclined to do real investigative journalism, they’ve forgotten how.
There is so much going on behind the scenes in Canberra right now, but we haven’t heard a word of it publically, except for the odd report of public servants being made to work ‘too hard’.
What are they working on?
Who cares.
It’s easier to turn up to a doorstop, cop the marketing in the face and shovel it out to the masses.
Even better if you’re a clown like Milne who gets the briefing direct from the partyroom – you don’t even have to turn up.
At some point these people have morphed from reporters to opiners who think they can drive the debate. I guess in some ways when you’re briefed ahead of time you can pretend you do drive the debate.
Of course if you were half intelligent you would realise the folly and petty worthlessness (other than financial – Rupert will always pay you for a right wing view) of a life spent doing these childish things, and therein, exactly, is the rub.
236 marky – there you are Marky I actually agree with you on this one. The government needs to stick to their guns. Of course they have not committed to anything yet. Nelson’s policy is also a dog.
In my experience, journos are pretty good self policers. And they come and go, talking of their grand salaries News Limited is paying about $40K for a Grade 2/3 at the moment as I understand it, hardly rich pickings.
Opinion pages are different to journo stories. The Gallery still attracts good journos. They lose them – I’m still lamenting Joe Kerr – but don’t disguise dislike of general critique for lack of objectivism.
I work on the other side these days and what annoys me most about journos is their mindless refusal to agree with my opinion and write the story I want them to write. It’s so irritating! I’ve gone to all this trouble, spent all this time, sucked up all this much – and still they want to find a counter view!
Imagine how the Great Leader feels! Yet I reckon he feels an attacking press is the right press for a good democracy. But then, I was always mindlessly idealistic.
And now the GST on fuel is now open for debate while the excise isn’t. That’s called “a story”. You might call it cowardice, expediency, delivering on promises, giving working families what they ask for in due season… but it’s a story.
Interesting that Kina and Gary agree with me, and that they always agree with one another. Are you both working for the same Labor media unit.
re 234,
aahhaa, It just came to me. Chris Bowen.
Emily, I would hate to think all those fat old lazy hacks were on huge salaries, there is so much more talent around, surely.
243 Emily – you haven’t been “sent” here to “put us straight” have you? I can name maybe 4 genuinely objective journos, Laurie Oakes, George Meglagenous(?), Gerard Henderson and Barrie Cassidy. These people give it to both sides and try to be factually correct.
p.s. I agree with you too Marky.
Centre the speaker is the talented Harry Jenkins. Another untalented dill that the factions have provided.
Gerard Henderson objective! Sorry this guy was John Howards’ speech writer and now he is Brendan Nelsons’. He is a IPA spokesperson and peddles out continuously their bulldust.
Marky, I reckon the liberals should recruit Latham for their leadership. He couldn’t do any worse. lol
Nah, I’m an old girl, ask William if he might recall. I don’t work for any political party, but I do hand out for the ALP on election day. You’re all just driving me nuts and I had to unlurk. God forbid the press might bag us! God forbid when we won Government the opinion pieces might not be favourable! Oh no now the ABC is biased to the RIGHT WING! Tbey might be critical to the GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY!
There’s never anything you can’t recover from about being exposed to genuine press coverage, but again I’d say, I’m an idealist.
That give you a hint?
Should i or not state that i was a Latham fan. He would have made an excellent Prime Minister, as he for one was willing to stand up to this countries current Prime Minister- Rupert Murdoch. He unlike Rudd did not crawl to him and look what happened Murdoch and his cronies went after him and completly ruined him, just because he did not crawl, pathetic.
244 marky – come off it. I’ll say it one more time. YOU are the Labor member not me. I have never been a member of a political party. For a lefty who gets mistaken as a conservative supporter on here and quickly sets people straight you are not beyong labelling people incorrectly yourself are you?
Marky, I too voted for Latham and believe he was done in by the press including Murdoch. We differ however on what type of PM he would have made. At the time i thought he would have been good but since his melt down I have serious doubts about his strength of character under fire. He was badly flawed as we have seen since.
Marky, if you want to be honest with yourself, you know that Latham got a really good go by the media until he blew it. It was then they decided to start sticking the boot in.
Actually i think you are right because being a Labor member these days is very much being like a conservative supporter as for some of their policies. Gary i just state what i see, comments which give us feedback regarding the news nearly every day hence the radio or television or today tonight, sort of like keeping track of what they are saying and telling us all.
Similar to when a party realises a policy a one page media brief is provided or when a minister or member makes a comment.
I will say it again i am a member, i have the platform, yearly card and rights to vote in FEA elections and for State Conferences, did not attend the weekend lovefest tend to be decided beforehand by the factions these days.
How did he blow it Centre.
I suggest you people read Lathams’ book especially the introduction.
Emily,Akerman started out here in the Adelaide Advertiser, my adopted surragate dad, dear old uncle Bob Whitington was the head crime journo there at the time and Bob who was as straight as a die had no time for the cane toad even then, when Bob died some of his investigative papers fell into Akerman’s hands and the petulant dill burnt them, they would have been a great help to SAPOL now in an ongoing case, Bob’s legacy in balanced factual rather than shock value reporting still lives on today, a journo from his training is now a head reporter here, I’ve seen too many journos of the Akerman ilk who would’nt spoil a good story with the truth, I’ve got nothing but contempt for them, have you ever wasted your time watching T.T. or A.C.A? nuff said!
Gary – a few weeks ago you were saying if the Tarago Tax numbers didnt make it into Parliament you’d eat your hat or words to that effect?
You’ll be pleased to know that your hat is safe from the broad culinary experience – Mark Butler apparently used it today during a second reading of an Appropriations Bill
He made policy on the run, Marky (troops home by xmas in a radio interview).
Still, not as bad as cutting the fuel excise.
Judy,he’s horrible. I hate him.no argument there.
Well done Possum, that was a great piece of investigative work on your part. I’ve never liked eating hat, thank heavens for that.
The problem was Centre, the corporate media saw him as a threat to their interests and for that reason they went after him. Hence the taxi driver which was not an issue, his first wife not a issue, his relationships with women not an issue and then their was the dopes within who hated him because he had brains and they didn’t- Conroy, Carr, Lennon ( Tassie Priemer) ex grouper , and some dopey dills from the New South Wales right and not forgetting the union movement
the CFMEU who campaigned against the Labor movement a day from election day, the ultimate betrayal and the idiots who made a deal in Victoria to give preferences to Steve one policy Fielding.
I will say it again go to a library and borrow his and book and read it, you may have a different opinion.
I will say this though i did not agree with his economic beliefs and did not agree with going to an election with to many idealistic policies that may have been a failing but he got little help from his own side and the State Governments who as usual had their own agendas at heart.
Marky, the media went after Rudd as well ( Bourke, strip club, etc…).
Are you saying Conroy likes Rudd because he has no brains?
Latham’s Tasmanian forests policy was a shocker, Marky.
marky
it is useless to cast pearls before swine
ps pancreatitis is the most debilitating disease
bit like the old vd joke
first you think your pissing barb wire
second you know your pissing barb wire
third you wish you were pissing barb wire
Read his book Centre to get a bit of a look at his ideas and what were the machinations behind the scenes during his time as Leader.
Forests policy was not a shocker, it was released to late and was badly handled. A union should not get on a stage with a Leader of a Government who did nothing for them, especially the introduction of workchoices and then people such as Dick Adams and Mr Lennon go out of their way to support Howard also.. treachery at its worst and Lennon thankfully has gone and i am rapt.
Gusface can i have what you are having?
239
Kina @ 239 -
I agree Rudd would have been better off ridiculing Nelson on the fuel excise debate for the pointless policy it would be. I mean, he has plenty of ammunition, even from Nelson’s side. Rudd could have made a few points out of this one.
Ridicule? No! What he should have done is shown Nelson up for the small minded, bereft of ideas, lazy, knee jerker he is by demonstrating real leadership on the issue in acknowledging we have a huge crisis on our hands and starting the process to fix it. Unfortunately, Rudd seems to be just as clueless/in denial.
Back in 2000, Nelson’s small minded, bereft of ideas, lazy knee jerking predecessor, John Howard, froze the fuel excise when increasing petrol prices became politically inconvenient instead of addressing the real problems – that oil is an increasingly scarce resource and a major global warming contributor with a limited future.
I don’t know how many billions in revenue have been lost because of that freeze, but if the money had been used to reduce our dependence on oil we would now be better able to cope with the current crisis. Instead, most of it just ended up in oil company coffers and we are even further up poop creek.
This problem is not going to go away, it will only become worse. So the sooner we accept that we need to do more than apply a few band-aids and start doing the hard, expensive, yards to replace oil as our major transport energy source the better.
Unfortunately, perhaps the ultimate solutions, electric fuel cells and/or hydrogen aren’t yet viable. But there are ways of bridging the gap. Better, more flexible public transport, greater use of LPG/natural gas, tax breaks to encourage denser, less transport intensive, inner city housing instead of increasing urban sprawl – and a host of other things that I haven’t thought of but no doubt others have.
marky-touche
actually a lot of what you wrote is true
othello was a victim of both the machine and chronic health problems, the meds he was on and the dosages can cause quite severe reactions (personal experience can attest to that)
also i believe that alot of the intelligentsia that parades as ‘true believers’ didnt get marks working class ethos-or the fact that he was more in the mold of rfxc than than jbc
so now we have a ‘dry” as pm run by a machine more attuned to power for powers sake than the “light on the hill”
rage on marky as your voice aint alone
I know who rfxc is but who is jbc?
so who is rfxc?
and jbc?
gary
ever met rex? or heard some of his diatribes? f##king life changing imho
(jbc was chiffs sometime nom de guerre/code name during ww2)
thomarse
rex francis xavier connor
“junior” ben chifley
And who is Gusface today?
whose asking?
ahh, rex connor
I have The Dismissal on DVD. If the portrayal of Rex Connor is accurate then I agree with you gusface. A brilliant character and a bloke with big ideas. If only they had gone through the right channels for the money Australia would have been a much better place with his grand ideas put into effect.
cheers gary
i wouldn’t characterise rfx as “grandiose’ more visionary- imagine the royalties etc that we would be rolling in
as an aside i believe mark was influenced by rfx’s rhetoric
an old timer i met in the 70’s said he (rfx) had the billy poos (hughes) about him
without the underhandedness of hughes
For once i agree with Gary, the Foreign Debt would probably not exist.
Night Visonaries and dreamers and rest in peace ben chifley a real true believer.
GB @ 278: Well, we wouldn’t be suffering these crippling uranium shortages, that’s for sure. Compare the original Rex Connor rendition of his speech at the special “loans affair” sitting of parliament (which you can hear along with many other wonderful things at Whitlamdismissal.com) with Bill Hunter’s rendition in The Dismissal, and I’ll think you’ll be very disappointed.
nailing your colours to the mast are we william re uranium perchance?
btw rfx’s crusade was about ownership and equitable arrangements
the ‘loans affair’ speech was a sad postscript to a remarkable “mission statement’ re all OUR mineral wealth- not just yellowcake (uranium)
Thanks William.
Marky I have said before that a 5 cent excise reduction would be the same as giving money to the oil companies as their prices would immediately rise fill the gap, they wouldn’t miss the opportunity. The net result would be a loss in govt revenue and nothing else. It was a bad idea and an opportunity for Labor to get stuck in to Nelson to boot. Rudd’s review on the GST on the excise at least makes sense in that it is looking at should we collect a tax on a tax. However he might do that but for little net result to the consumer.
I come from no media unit. Not even close.
—————————–
It is simple fact that the OO and a number of Murdoch journalists have been gunning for Labor and endeavoring to promote the LNP. It is also plain that the ABC has indeed gone to the right since the advent of the thought police.
It is fact that in the absence of anything tangible they go for the trivia…ie Rudd’s salute to Bush.
It is not unreasonable to expect the media to be non-partisan and offer up decent analysis on real issues. And those that are partisan it should be made clear to the reader that they are partisan to whatever side.
Because we have had a bad media in the past doesn’t mean we should not criticise it, or is the media beyond criticism. Because papers and journalists have become incestuous with parties in the past doesn’t we have to accept it or not criticise it.
The media has on the whole been giving Rudd and Labor a bad go for 18 months. Simple fact and unacceptable. The people get their impressions and data from the media and make their decisions from this, so it is indeed important that they get some semblance of truth and context. AND not spun incessant partisan views.
In my democracy it would be nice to have non-partisan reporting so people can make up their own minds based on analysis and facts. That isnt going to happen so the alternative is to not have too much media concentration to allow a diversity of opinions reaching the public. AND it should be mandatory that partisan journalist be identified clearly as such so that people can filter what the see, hear and read. The few journalists that I deal with do tend to be defensive on this issue.
So, now they tell us:
So I guess all those happy photos during Howard’s time of desert cricket, fun runs, tyre changing competitions, sniling Iraqis being trained, visits to the local casbah and so on were true.
We weren’t in Iraq to fight the evil terrorists, provide a vital bulwark against Islamo-fascism and save the Iraqi people.
We were there completely for show.
“Strong on national defence”, was the mantra from the neocons and Howard urgers.
It was all a crock.
285
Kina
Another result of the Howard years IMHO
Analysis & criticism were discouraged, remember the elites, chattering classes etc etc? The great thing about the 2020 Summit was to signal that that was no longer the case.
I still lurk Pies’ blog–can’t post because I have been banned
–and you would not believe the constant whinging about the ‘left wing press’ with special venom for the Age and above all the ABC.
The silver lining for those a bit left is that all these blogs, Dolt, Pies, Janet, Shamaham have helped Labor win office: the Howard government did not receive real feedback on their policies.
It’s interesting how the press sees any differing views within a political party as a split, like it is somehow wrong to disagree within your own ranks. This happens to both sides of course and has done so with the petrol issue recently. Of course the opposing party will always make hay while the sunshines when it happens to their opponents but it just seems to me to be unrealistic to expect everyone within a party to agree on every policy measure.
Discussion and differences within any party must surely be healthy. Isn’t that the way cabinet government works? They sit down thrash out the arguments for and against, make a decision and all agree to go along with it.
How predictable the Murdoch Press and commercial radio are running hard with this, and talking up the supposed split in the Rudd government. These characters haven’t changed their spots since November 24, it’s obviously time to give Nelson a leg up.
I’m not sure this type of thing really plays out there in voter land. This government had a mountain of goodwill out there at the moment so I think the “fallout” will be minimal. The workings of government don’t excite most punters.
The real issue here is who leaked it and why. This was just normal cabinet government at work and some mongrel has leaked.
Geez Mumble has taken a dislike to Rudd in a big way.
my belated thoughts…
The halfwit locum wants desperately to snare back that prized mantle of being the better economic managers, the reason he fails is because he thinks he doesn’t need policy of his own to do this, he thinks if he can stir enough hysteria it might make the other team pull a bad move and give him something to bang his drum about. if the ruddster sticks to his guns the liberal party will disintegrate in its current form.
the silverbullet to rising oil prices? I reckon only one is to be prudent and use your car less, or get rid of it.
The price will decrease when there is either an increase in supply, or a decrease in demand. There can’t be an increase in supply because supply is currently maxed out because of China and India, so the only way to get the price down is to reduce demand by using what we buy more efficiently.
i thought the production of oil had already peaked and is on the decrease, yet the demand is still rising hense the price will only go one way.
Yep a censure motion in Parliament – geez Brendan is predictable
Did anyone else notice that Nelson’s argument was self defeating? He censured Rudd for being unable to bring down the price of petrol, but promptly refused to promise to bring down the price of petrol.
The Opposition today at QT were a rabble and intent on spoiling tactics as they have been all year. There was nothing constructive in their questions just a resolve to disrupt and cause trouble, and to destroy the Gov’t’s credibilitity on very spurious grounds. They did not seem to have any real ideas of their own and seem to think if you deny something, ignore it or make outrageous statemments you can change its truth. They simply do not have any principles and would be in far deeper trouble if the Press did not provide them with “life support” .
Rudd had evidence based material for his policies. What is it the Opposition don’t understand? The best interests of Australia seem far from their minds and they seem to think the end justifies the means.
The Ferguson leak was reported but was one sided. It is simply more of the same in regard to the pattern of reporting we have had all year. I have never seen journalism at a lower ebb than it is now.
I thought Malcolm made a strong speech, sticking to the ACCC report, Chris Bowen’s reply not as good.
Rudd should stick to his guns, world price is beyond his control, he will work at the margins.
If they had cut a lot more deeply into stupid Howard spending they could have offered a bit more to make up for petrol prices.
The PoisonedDwarf is on Agenda extolling Brendan Nelson’s virtues. He says he got the better of Rudd in parliament and Rudd didn’t perform too well. Which parliament did he watch?
Hahhahahahh Hockey is drowning at the moment.
Warren Truss is showing Hockey how to move a motion of dissent
302 Thomarse – I’m no admirer of the buffoon to whom you refer but I do agree with your comment.
hehehe yeah
Hockey was all petulance, is he a kid or a Parliamentarian?????
Hockey gets even more emotional than Nelson. He wouldn’t make a good leader. Not a good look.
I thought Truss did well.
We won’t be silenced!
Milne mentioned the honermoon being over on Agenda today. LOL
Honeymoon that is.
How will the Libs vote in regard to Fuel Watch?
I couldn’t see the video but from the audio it seemed likely that Joe was about to blow a poppet valve. A distinctlty ruddy face as well, no doubt.
Anger alone (faux or real) is insufficient alone.
So the Libs voted against Fuel Watch or maybe they did or perhaps they did not or possibly they don’t have a clue what they voted for.
What a shambles.
I will probably like Fuelwatch, often having to buy petrol on the go and couldn’t be stuffed lining up in those long queues Tue night.
Seems the really cost conscious and time rich (pensioners) might miss out?
Possum has an article on Fuelwatch
Labor should nail Nelson on where the money for his 5c off petrol plan is coming from. The MSM won’t.
I think the Canberra journalists get carried away with what they perceive the effect of the goings on in parliament has on the average Joe. Milne expressed the view that Rudd has got a Keating or a costello to help him. What Milne forgets that neither of those people were particularly popular out in voter land and their performances in parliament didn’t save their respective governments.
Thst should read HASN”T got a Keating or Costello.
hehehe Gillard & Tanner deliver the barbs but without the bombast of K&C
The LNP are of course hypocrites and should look to their behaviour when in government where they basically shut down debate in both houses of parliament in total contempt of democracy. Howard’s crowd were a threat to a fair parliamentary democracy in this country.
Now, having being booted out they still seek to make parliament unworkable by childish pointless behaviour. They are not only lacking in talent and policy they lack a moral compass and dignity as well.
Hockey seems to have become bitter of late and has joined the petulance crowd. When he turned traitor on Rudd by refusing to attend his daughters wedding it seems he burnt his bridges and decided to descend into Howardism.
—————-
I find it remarkable that some think it fine for the media to misrepresent, context and or fact simply because Labor is now the government.
Labor won government so shouldn’t whinge because it gets attacked by the media? I think some have missed the point or reveal their real political persuasion.
It makes no difference the government – media systemically and systematically misrepresenting the truth of the matter is not ok. AND when done in a way to deliberately and falsely undermine one side and to promote another it is a disgrace and not acceptable. It treats Australians with contempt and the democratic process with contempt.
People who chose governments are almost entirely informed on politics through the media on which they then have to make a decision. Thus any systemic bias in the media leads to people making decisions not based on the full truth or context.
I find it amazing that some can be so blaze about partisan media, as though it is nothing to them. I suggest they have look at China media or old Pravda to see an example of one extreme ‘truth’ media.
Journalists who consistently report in a way to support one side of politics regardless of the merits of the facts, are a disgrace.
I think too many years of Howardism has made many accept and find acceptable consistent negative reporting of non-Liberal party views and parties, for no other reason than they are not helpful to the Liberal party.
One good reason for having diverse media ownership is that it gives greater opportunity for diverse reporting so that the generally population has some chance of sifting the facts from the BS.
This is another example of just how petty the Libs have now become, aided and abetted by their MSM minders.
{The opposition wants Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to repay a $US1,700 hotel cancellation fee despite his decision saving taxpayers $US3,400.
Mr Rudd was booked into a suite at the four-star Willard Intercontinental in Washington for three nights as part of his 18-day overseas trip in March and April.
But at the last minute he decided to stay at the Australian ambassador’s residence instead because it fitted in better with a dinner with expatriate Australians.}
http://news.smh.com.au/national/rudd-criticised-over-hotel-cancellation-20080527-2imf.html
296 good call yesterday ruawake
Sky Nooze has a poll on “Who has the answers on fuel prices?”
Govt 11%
Brenda’s Mob 35%
Neither 54%
Now, given that most Sky Nooze polls favour the coalition, this is instructive. 65% of a pro coalition poll thinks Brenda is talking crud.
321
and as has been posed here – this isn’t an issue.
The MSM is wasting paper and bandwidth again…
Maybe it’s a bit like goading the kid with ADHD at school to see how psycho he can really get?
I missed it today, but it sounds like Hockey will be in the mechanics for a few days to get the gasket replaced. Bloody young kids over-revving….
onimod
The Libs are so predictable. They use a sledgehammer to crack a peanut. If they had let question time finish. Then had a MPI debate on petrol etc they would have had identical news coverage.
But NOOO they have to have a censure – which is always dangerous, Rudd did the obvious thing and changed the wording of the motion.
Then Joe has to spend two hours fluffing about in mock indignation while behind the scenes the ‘leadership team” try to work out what on earth to do.
At least they did not just walk out again. How long will Hockey, Joe remain as leader of opposition business – he stuffed up big time today.
MSM have been having kittens by the litterload over the past month at the failure of their “Build up Brenda” campaigns.
Carers – big flop, Pensoners rage, hate Rudd – no sudden drop of Kev’s popularity. Food prices, petol prices, interest rates, Petrol petrol petrol Rudd’s fault blah blah blah– still Brenda sits at 7%!
If newspoll doesn’t stack a few numbers tonight has Brenda at least a 35% and Kev dropping to 55% and have the coalition within 5 %points of Labor in 2PP
we could see mass suicides tomorrow.
Lord wouldn’t that be sad—NOT!
Nelson’s proposal works out to be $2.50 a week if you use 50 litres a week (about 300kms in a V6 in moderate traffic). How many people are going to be marching in the streets for two bucks fifty?
They’ll be driving in Convoy tooting their horns
The censure motion didn’t make it to 7:30.
I cannot for the life of me think of another situation anywhere where Nelson could get away with the mock indignation he put on show today.
Perhaps that sort of tantrum would be appropriate in firing up a bunch of suicide bombers, but that’d be it.
What an embarrassing twat.
I’d wager that the primary response to that sort of behaviour is to switch off, with the express intention of never switching on again.
Initially I thought the 7% was a confluence of factors. I can now believe that it’s a well considered response.
My next door neighbour has a refrigerated Mack truck with refrigerated trailer. He drives to Adelaide and back each week – it costs $6,000 in fuel.
He delivers Pita bread for a major national bread company. It is cheaper for them to truck it than to set up a factory in Adelaide.
One of his favourite yarns is the prawns he trucked from Cairns to Perth to Melbourne to Sydney then eventually to Brisbane because some bean counter in a major supermarket kept changing his mind where the prawns could fetch the best price.
Crazy stuff like this happens everyday, the bread I buy from Aldi is baked in Sydney and is half the price of the bread baked on site at my local Wollies.
318. Kina, I’m with you on this. I’ve mentioned this before on William’s blog, but maybe Ruawake’s site might be an appropriate site for a systematic monitoring of the ABC in particular? Bit of citizen action? The OO, I think you can just forget.
Isn’t there some type of monitoring organisation that looks into standards of reporting? Some of these journalists and papers must be able to be held to scrutiny somehow.
327. Onimod, yes, what would the reaction be, from Brendon (I’m a doctor) if the Labor Party proposed a squillion bucks on the Christmas Island Detention Centre, the Pacific Solution, Abrams tanks of no use in Australia, helicopters that can’t fly in the dark, and so on? Would he spontaneously combust? Or just say, “Oh Yeah, that is a foot, and what’s it doing in my mouth?” This fool thinks Rudd’s going to call an early election, apparently, and that they’re on to a winner with their current behaviour.
328
Ruawake, Get yourself a breadmaker, only use it for the initial knead, you’ll have a loaf of bread or whatever for 60 cents.
Ican’t believe it!!! well maybe i can –this is the coalition remember.
one of the coalition questions at the estimates committee was who is paying for the Rudd dog to be walked in the Lodge grounds, THIS after Howard kept two fully staffed homes and the use of a fully staffed jet to travel to and from Sydney/Canberra so that Hyacynth could keep up appearances,it also meant that staff had to travel to Sydney and stay overnight when needed.
was’nt it great that Rudd opened up Kirribilli to charities for fund raising? all the coalition is doing is showing up just what idiotic dills they are.
Well it’s my view Kev made a fool of himself this week pretending he was an art critic; but no damage done Nelson followed, they now both look like fools. As for the fuel watch thing, who cares. We are close or past peak oil, the price is going to go up, get over it and start working looking the alternatives.
Wind turbines being proposed for Lal Lal, I wonder if we are going to get support or silence from the greens.
328 – Of course for those in transport industry it cost more but there is the chance to recover cost but recharging the customers more(in that case the supermarket chain). This of course has the added consequences of rising prices and adding to inflation.
As for the states (Costa mainly) complaining about the lost of GST revenue if excise is no longer taxed; since petrol has risen about 38 cents in a year, there not going to be out of pocket one cent in reality. Swan should have accused them of profiteering and put them back in their box.
I predict a surge in populatiry for the government.
It’s counter-intuitive, I know, but every time there’s been a “Let’s Get Rudd” frenzy like this in the past it’s flopped big-time.
Asking people to change their minds on who’s best to run the country just six months after an election (and just two weeks after record poll results) is a bridge too far.
Having said that, Ridd’s government is not helping matters by seeming to cave in on every stunt the Opposition pulls.
They need some backbone.
I get the feeling that Rudd is listening to his spin doctors far too much, and has been for some time.
“Labor has acted on a report commissioned by the member for Higgins who TEMPORARILY sits on the backbench and hopes to INCREMENTLY WORK his way to the frontbench”
LOL, well said Prime Minister.
If service stations display the highest price they intend to offer for the next trading day at 2.00pm, the petrol watch scheme MUST work. If they wish to lower their prices, they can notify motorists on the web site at the same time they make the change.
Note you cheap political point scoring irresponsible imbeciles, Nelson and lightweight Turnbull: COMPETITIVE FORCES WILL NATURALLY LOWER PRICES.
I reckon by as much as 3 cents a litre in my opinion. Also service stations wishing to offer discounts will vary on different days of the week.
It’s an excellent policy and the liberals are going to look even more pathetic when it’s proved that it works.
Centre,
Why must FuelWatch work?
Why do you assume that servo operators (or whoever sets the prices) won’t work out the scheme (just as you apparently have) and load the prices to allow for the fact that they can’t go up again till 24 hours later?
It’s a stunt, in my view, just like the 5c off the excise plan.
Also, how is anyone going to prove that it works?
BB @ 336,
I agree with some of this:
- Nelson is a joke and his presence keeps a natural floor under the Govt’s ratings, so nothing would surprise me with Rudd’s popularity.
- Rudd does listen to the spinners way too much, hence the wimpy budget and general over-sensitivity to criticism. No-one can run a country (or stay in office for a long time) by jumping at every shadow that moves, which is the impression Rudd is giving at the moment.
The government has a lack of talent within its ranks, and this alone is the reason it does have any backbone. Question where has Gillard gone has she been gagged?
One of the only competent people they have and lately she has dissappeared?
Spin doctors well they are everywhere now and put simply as i have said before their is the government and media which now controls this country, hence whatever the media says the government acts upon…
They have lost the plot on petrol and the plot on solar rebates.
Rudd needs to stop being so precious and paronoid and to be acting like a perfectionist.
Dyno it must work because all the service stations will be conscious of what their competitors are offering. If you owned a service station would you be happy that the bloke a km up the road is offering cheaper petrol?
You offer your price, and then you must compete to attract business. We will have stability and LESS teamwork and rorts. That’s what the motorists want.
The government should demand the Liberals repay the hundreds of millions they wasted on their failed unmandated radical WorkChoices experiment.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/howard-ignored-polling/2008/03/06/1204779971065.html
http://news.theage.com.au/work-choices-dead-says-nelson/20071219-1i1i.html
In the meantime Nelson talks up the prospect of an early election.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23766291-661,00.html
He has gone completely troppo. It would be a slaughter.
The Liberals need to change leader – NOW!!!
Dyno, you can prove that it works by providing fair dinkum factual statistics relative to the price of oil on each given day.
But Centre can’t they drop their prices below the stated amount? So won’t they quickly work out that by adding 2-3 cents to what they would previously have charged they give themselves the freedom to still end up at the same profit margin if it turns out that they did misjudge the guy down the road?
Case not proven, as far as I’m concerned.
And the Libs’ 5 cents off (even though it’s just as much of a stunt) is far easier for the average person to understand in terms of its effect on prices.
Even though i hate Nelson and do not for one minute believe he will win an election,
the Labor Party should underestimate him, and sadly they seem to falling for his mantra on petrol and put themselves into a giant hole, Nelson seems to as a result to be setting the agenda.
Put it this way Centre, what do you reckon the price of petrol is going to do in the next two years? I reckon it will go up – significantly.
So then Nelson/Turnbull/Bishop/Hockey/Costello* just says “it hasn’t worked, you’re paying fifty cents (or whatever) more than when Rudd was elected”. It will be a potent line.
Econometric arguments about the relativity of the prices of petrol and crude oil respectively aren’t going to cut it, compared to that line.
* Insert 2010 Liberal leader of choice
Dyno, they would not overstate their price because a competitor could EASILY offer a cheaper price on the net and risk losing a sale!
It wouldn’t be practical to start high. You would set your price and then compete.
Nelson was warning his partyroom today of an election next year? If that happened it would set up nicely for Kevin 11 for the election after that. Does anyone seriously believe a broke Liberal party really wants to fight again so soon?
Dyno for your 348, you could refer to my 345. And yes, rising oil prices is a serious concern. More of a concern than the credit crisis in the US.
Heard the Deputy Treasurer (I think it was) say that in each of the years 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 the average price of petrol in WA (the only state in which Fuelwatch so far operates) was the cheapest of any state. (Except Queensland which has an 8c per litre subsidy by the government.)
Fuelwatch was apparently an initiative of the WA Liberals when in office.
Centre @ 351,
Agree that rising oil prices are a massive concern.
On the credit crunch, no less an authority than Warren Buffett was quoted this week saying he thought the worst of that might be behind us (mind you he also said we’re already in a recession).
Dyno, I would totally agree with your 353. The stock market has copped an absolute hammering. It’s not only volatile, there is absolutely no confidence there.
One thing for certain, when we completely clear the credit crunch, and inflation is controlled, and interest rates start to fall, the market will EXPLODE. But we don’t know when that will be. Don’t miss out???
For those accusing Rudd of a knee-jerk reaction to Brenda’s 5c excise tax cut by announcing a review of the GST on the excise
Last night on one of the TV nightly news, can’t recall which maybe 10, they had a video cilp of the assistant treasurer speaking on the 15th of May (before Brenda did his budget reply and made his 5c tax announcement) saying labor’s tax review would look into the GST on petrol excise. that’s BEFORE brenda’s BS.
So who’s copying who here, but hey don’t let the truth get in the way of taking for gospel what MSM says.
But, vera, the Assistant Treasurer then qualified the comment and backed away from it later on the 15th.
not on last nights news he didn’t, in fact the reporter even commented on the fact brenda was the copycat
The 5c a litre discount will be forgotten a month, if not sooner, after being implemented. Unlike the 4c a litre shopper discount, which shows as a dollar amount on the docket is always visible, unlike the excise tax, which is not visible so is consequently forgotten and the cost of petrol is still too high.
Marky Marky your misreading Rudd too much, you are expecting him to fix all that is wrong in 6 months, just like the Right Wing Ratbags having a go at him just because. The fuel watchdog was a promise and he is implementing the promise.
That also goes for the GST off the excise tax.
I’m not convinced the average Joe out there blames this government for high fuel prices. They see and hear about other countries experiencing the same problem. People just aren’t that uninformed thses days.
I’m also not convinced they believe either party has an answer to the problem. Are you really impressed with a solution that offers about $3.00 a litre off per tank or less as both “solutions” are offering? I’m not. That’s not an answer.
I can tell you one thing though, if there is not a dip in the up coming polls for the government the opposition are going to wonder what they have to do.
How do channel 7 know “working families” are angry with Rudd over petrol? Not according to the last set of polls.
Ever wonder why the anger of the anti Labour forces (ie LNP and Media Friends) is so strong at the moment? Rudd & Swan & Tanner are directly attacking their Economic Credentials! LNP under Howard were always a “one-trick pony” and without their so-called economic credentials they have absolutely nothing.
Now without the assistance of Treasury this is being exposed for what it is and they are frightened – hence the hype, bravado, tantrums and wild statements and outrageous headlines. I think they are fighting their last defence for some time and are desperate.
Their economics always favoured the big end of town and only looked after the “battlers” so they they could keep their vote. Then came Workchoices and enough of the voters could see what was happening and so they lost Gov’t.
Rudd and Co. are interweaving the economy into Health, Infrastructure, welfare, Tax etc and every part of life to do with the Gov’t. This is how it should be and is the holistic approach.
The Gov’t needs to weather this storm. This will influence how many terms they will be in Gov’t.
I think you will find that where they have been portrayed by the Press as “backfliping” and compromising under pressure(which is not always a bad thing and is often simply just being flexible) it is entirely in line with election promises. It is all part of their general policy and part of the whole picture. They are not jumping at shadows.
Not only that Doug but anybody watching the Liberal performance in Question time today could only point, laugh and shake their heads at the rabble of a performance on display.
I just caught Agenda on Sky News. OOh, Milne was on it. How sickening!
He reckons motorists are going to miss out on cheap tuesdays. What about rip off fridays & weekends?
Imbecile.
What about Nelson! He reckons people are going to miss waiting in traffic for half a km to get fuel on tuesdays. Is this bloke the full quid???
Clown.
is there a Newspoll tonight?
Vera, not till next week.
According to Springborg the Pineapple Party seem to be heading for some sort of trainwreck.
“It’s been a long time coming,” Mr Springborg said.
“The train is travelling fairly quickly now.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23764029-5006786,00.html
By the way Newspoll is partially revealed on each second Monday night and in the OO on Tuesday mornings.
I just wnat to know who leaked Ferguson’s letter and why. Maybe Rudd should have cleaned out the public service in some areas.
thanks Gary, I thought we were due one tonight
GB , it’s not worth worrying about. It will be chip wrapping by tomorrow.
I agree Steve and the Libs can’t depend on petrol prices to be in the headlines forever either. I’m still yet to be convinced there is anger towards the government over this.
I think all it proves is that divergent views are taken to cabinet and discussed then a decision is made. I’d be more concerned if someone came up with a $10 Billion Murray basin scheme on the back of an envelope while cabinet was meeting.
Notice how quickly Alcopops has disappeared from the headlines
Alcopops – another beat up.
Why would anyone be blaming a new government for the petrol rises when the previous government wasn’t blamed?
So has the Japan snub, interest rates, inflation fighting,carers allowance, old age pension increases, carers allowances, the mortgage stress of the Mad Monk and travel woes of Andrew Robb. But the one consistent unsolved problem is the poor polling of Nelson, that will always be with us.
Exactly, and I wonder how many vox-pops they shot before they got the ones which suited their agenda ?
The general public are not going to get that excited over the 5c excise issue.
Firstly they are aware that significant members of the Liberal party thought it was a bad idea including the shadow treasurer, may be aware that Howard already rejected it, are half aware that it may not be such a great idea and, more importantly 5c starts to become irrelevant when prices are leaping so quickly. People will also be aware that the international price of oil is sky rocketing, thus they don’t see it as an issue very much under Government control.
If you were talking 5c where fuel was 20c a litre you will get some backs up, but 5c on $1.60 wont have the same effect.
Nelson can have his fun with it but the 5c will have not much bite. Maybe he will pick up a few points just for seeming to take a stand on something.
Don’t know how he thinks he will get an early election. Maybe trying to to muddy Turnbull’s waters.
Someone ought to tell Nelson that his angry look is not a good one.
Rudd and Swan should just hold their nerve. The new tax scales will kick in from July and that will give people some relief. If the opposition refuse to pass any budget revenue measures then they make themselves a target. Petrol prices aren’t going down in the short term and will rise in real terms post 2012. So the best thing Rudd & co could do to show leadership is to say honestly to people: “Look, these prices may drop a little but you can forget petrol under $1.20/litre, so buy more economical cars, and we will support local manufacturers to switch to hybrids”. Or fund public transport. There is no quick fix to world oil prices.
Beyond that, there is bugger all they can do without blowing the budget and increasing inflation. That would be a terrible outcome for Rudd and the rest of us.
I think Kev might be sitting back letting the rabble on the other side self destruct. With all the hysterical shouting and sreeching and red faces it’s just a matter of time before one of them bursts a boiler. Gor, imagine having Joe Hockey splattered all over you, yuck what a nasty smelly mess, how would you get that stain out?
Kev seemed to be enjoying himself in QT today going by the clip on SBS late news. Doesn’t look a bit worried to me.
According to the dwarf Kev was rattled. What QT did he watch?
The dill probably hasn’t worked out Kev is sitting on the RIGHT hand side of the speaker now.
Wasn’t the dwarf promised the job of being Smirks press secretary when he became PM? or was it David Spears
Either would be perfect.
Might have been spears? he was Sky chief political reporter before election but now Kieren Gilbert has that title. Could be he jumped the gun then had to get his old job back! lol
I reckon Gilbert does a good job. Speers let’s his bias show.
Where’s Toolman this week?
I wouldn’t mind betting that Heather Ewart scored a little better in her HSC…
I think it was the fecal dwarf that was looking to be Costello’s press secretary.
It was embarrassing to watch him. Why Costello would choose him is beyond me, he has no self respect, is looked down upon and doesn’t appear to have any skills as far as I can see. For a journalist his pieces are fairly poor.
He has become a simple purveyor of trash without a sugar daddy to fantasize about.
Speers is next to irrelevant (and I don’t mean Nelson).
I very rarely read the Dwarf these days as he always seems off with the fairies and gets things totally out of proportion. He does not take comments like he used to and this is probably because he got too many comments bringing him back to reality.
I watched QT today and Rudd and his other speakers seemed to have plenty of confidence. They had evidence based replies. Nelson and co spent much of the time just sneering. They were a rabble – who could possibly elect them?
Where is the Liberal party talent?
If you had any talent would you think about throwing your hat in?
You’d have to be a crazy masochist.
392 They are in Queensland writing a new constitution that has just eliminated the billionaire mining magnate from Western Australia Clive Palmer from membership of his own Pineapple party. Oh Deary me.
This is the thanks Palmer gets for supplying a 100 seater plane , helicopter rides for the Queensland shadow cabinet and financing for the next Queensland campaign. What a ship of fools!
I think the Libs should be encouraged to keep up their QT behaviour, Nelson must be allowed to think that his faux anger is cutting it in voter land. Joe Kebabs a master class in action. The more they do it, the more certain Kev will be of a landslide next election. Keep it up guys!
Their pointless disruption of parliamentary proceedings yesterday was just true to the form established when they were in government. Their shenanigans under the Liberal Speaker, Hwaker, surely among the most biased ever to disgrace the House, tells a lot about the tories’ contempt for parliamentary process, and by extension, the Australian electorate itself.
GG, thanks for the link to the Guardian article on an earlier page, confirms my thinking re the oil price. The current $130 is an aberration caused by international speculators in a feeding frenzy, it is exhibiting many of the signs of a bubble and will follow the fate of all such aberrations. I was chatting to a Qld Labor pollie yesterday and he informed me that cars produced here from 2010 will be designed to run on compressed natural gas, the same as presently used by the buses in Brisbane. CNG is in abundant local supply and we are presently virtually giving it to China. When are people going to wake up to the fact that these scares (a la millennium bug) are simply money making scams for the few?
“I just want to know who leaked Ferguson’s letter and why.”
Most likely within labor and to help Nelson. Keating’s big mistake was doing Downer too quickly, should have left him in place for the election.
Rudd has gone from playing with Howards mind and then Nelson’s to playing with the parliamentary lib party mind.
As soon as Nelson looks weak and indecisive and may be replaced, a leak or slip by labor will happen. The libs go from “Oh my god, we have to get rid of Brendon, even if it means we get Malcolm”, to “Hey, Nelson isn’t so bad, I think we have a chance”.
The MSM very obviously think Rudd has had a dream run for long enough, it’s time to prop up Nelson. I’ll laugh my butt off if Newspoll next week shows an increase in Labor’s ratings(which always happens very time they go on a feeding frenzy to bash Rudd).
Rudd has done nothing for 6 months apart from insignificant things with no substance, ie appologies and Kyoto, which he knew was not working
He has shown himself to be what he is, a person who believes in nothing but power
He talks about the Education revolution, then took laptops out of the FBT, so the kids of today won’t get help with their education.
He talks about being Green, then mean test solar panel (can someone tell me how someone on $35k a year can use solar panel, when they are having enough problem paying for housing and fuel)
He talks about easing inflation, then outspend the last government
He talks about now he will lower patrol prices, then say that was not a promise, he says 5c cut in excise is irresposible, but 3c cut in GST is not, and is being considered.
All spin no action, the honeymoon is over!!! Then again when incompetant governments like NSW Labor, keep getting re-elected just based on spin, the Australian public might be dumber than we think
Another person blaming the Australian people, keep it up you of the follower of the incompetent party.
It’s not evident from all the dismissive comments here, but the Opposition has been getting some hits on the government, e.g., the Ferguson letter. This can only help Brendan Nelson stay on as leader, which is exactly where the ALP wants him.
dovif@401:
The reasons for the way the economy is, is solely the result of the former Liberal government. That’s why they’re in opposition now and will be for a long long while.
After all the interest rate rises because of Nelson, Hockey, Bishop, Costello, Downer, Pyne & Co’s inability to control Howard and the economy, my mortgage has $7k p.a.
Makes little Brendans 5c a ltr look exactly what is is. A p*ssy little attempt to cover up their own incompetence while in government.
And don’t worry I keep sending Brendan and the Liberals in parliament emails asking them to explain why under their fine economic stewardship I’m paying $7k a year more for my house and he wants to give me back $3.00pwk
I haven’t had a single reply. So much for the listening tour.
404 should read :After all the interest rate rises because of Nelson, Hockey, Bishop, Costello, Downer, Pyne & Co’s inability to control Howard and the economy, my mortgage has risen $7k p.a.
Sondeo
That is exactly why I said they should hold their nerve on petrol. Petrol costs are a big issue for some people, especially those who have bought themselves large 4WDs. But for the rest of the battlers mortgage payments are a far bigger issue. Finding enough cash to reduce petrol prices significantly would kill the budget surplus and put upward pressure on inflation andhence interest rates. Nobody except an opposition praying for a recession to show up the government would want that.
To put it in perspective, if you had to choce between giving up your car or your house, I suspect its a quick decision.
Thinking about this further, I wonder if that is Nelson’s game? First block revenue measures in the budget, now try to bait the government into a huge petrol price subsidy – it would all increase the risk of higher inflation and interest rates, which would greatly increase Rudds chances of losing the next election.
The LNP are show terrible judgement in the battles they pick.
Turnbull wants to stand up for the guy who took naked photos of adolescent children as art, despite the fact that it is illegal (art not being a defence).
Regardless of the merits of the argument the public are going to see any sophisticated defence of this as something from the elite world. Too easy then to link Turnbull to defending child porn, as long as it is artistic?
AND blocking Fuel Watch is pointless too. It is not an additional tax or anything the public will see as an imposition and may see as a hope of some control being exerted on ‘oil companies’. The evidence tends to point to it being beneficial but in anycase blocking it could even seem as them hurting Australians.
So they are a bit silly in picking the battles. Just like Hockey saying that a tax on alcopops will lead to drink spiking. (analyse his logic and you will see he is being quite disgusting in what he is implying).
Turnbull, Brown join forces in Henson’s defence
High-profile Opposition frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull has spoken out in defence of artistic freedom after revealing that he owns works by controversial photographer Bill Henson.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/28/2257747.htm?section=justin
Opposition to block FuelWatch: Turnbull
But in a sign of Opposition dissent on the issue, WA Liberal Senator Judith Adams says FuelWatch has been effective in her state.
“I think FuelWatch is working. I mean, what can you do? If that’s the price, some places are a lot higher and others are a lot cheaper,” she said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/28/2257694.htm
Sondeo
We then should examine why interest rate rises
Petrol – Australian government except Rudd who says he can reduce its cost before the last election have very little effect on price
Full employment – Liberal government through workchoice, gave employment prospect to unskilled labour, by giving more incentive for small employers less risk to hire unskilled staff (they can fire them if it does not work out) that is why wages inflation was delayed in Australia. Any Economy with 4% unemployment will have inflation, as employer needs to attract good employees, the fact that inflation was so low was actually
The scrapping of work choice will have two effect
it will reduce the chance of employment of these unskilled staff (so they will not become skilled and useful), so this will be good to ease inflation, unless you became unemployed
this will led to wages inflation, as labour supply is reduced
The last budget did nothing to ease consumer spending, or reduce wage inflation, so the worse is yet to come
Unemployment is heading up, inflation is heading up, wages is heading up under Labor, the next few years will be interesting
Just on the solar,
1. Its mean tested at 100K and only covers grid connect. As far as I know stand alone is still OK. (Could be wrong on stand alone) I could not be bothered researching for ill informed RWDB’s.
2. They are replacing the rebate with a FIT (Feed In Tariffs) scheme to pay people for electricity produced. In the ACT it will be 3.88 x the retail price of electricity.
3. FIT produces an income stream for the connection of solar, not just a one off payment.
I suggest you do a little more research and come back with something more like facts instead of Liberal talking points from LIB HQ.
408 dovif – and all of this began under the previous government. People won’t forget that.
Judith Adams has really helped the Libs cause – NOT.
Well, it seems Shamaham and Milne are won over by Nelson. If the opinion polls don’t move the Libs way this time they are going to look very silly. I suspect their glee is felt up in Canberra but nowhere else, not out in the real world.
This policy was rejected at the last election, you’re going to have to think up something else.
Low skilled workers don’t gain skills in jobs for low skilled workers. They receive skills via education.
Thank you Judith Adams!
Parliament this afternoon should be hilarious, watch the shambolic team of Nelson, Malcolm and Hockey in action LOL
The best thing the government could do now is blow the 5c a litre argument out of the water. Sink it in facts and figures. Use the same arguments the previous government gave. Quote them back to them. Show the cost of parting out with 2 billion per year to save 5c per litre. Explain in detail what it does for the family budget, which is bugger all. Show where it will hurt the family and national budget.
This does two things, it puts the opposition on the defensive and destroys the only argument they have. We all know its a dog, that’s why the previous government refused to do it.
Just a small point.
What’s going on in politics (again) is reminding me of the US high school students president election where popularity is seen as an end in itself, whereas we all know that, at least in the movies, character ends up being the main decider.
The thing that concerns me is the diverging of the popular view from the intelligent view yet again.
The opposition is basing their thrust on individual selfishness, and the government is fearful of it too. The issues we’re wasting our time on at present have really got stuff all to do with Australia reaching it’s potential.
I think a relatively unchanged poll will suggest that the general population can see the frivolousness of the current debating points, whereas the opposite is a worrying sign.
415 agreed
I’m a visual person and a simple ‘possum style’ graph does it for me every time, but I don’t know how the general population will react?
I remember when I grew up the papers always used to have nice little diagrams, pictures and time lines that would explain the latest disaster, discovery or whatever; they seem to have gone.
The issue isn’t the 5 cents, it’s the 5 cents multiplied by the volume of fuel used; a number that at present has no meaning to the general population. It, and it’s affects, needs to be converted to something tangible that reveals the true pain to the populace.
Hectares of Amaxon, rooms of the house, time in years it’s taking off your life etc…
or alternatively it’s frivolousness – how many candy bars, big macs or the like.
Office bearers in the NSW Libreal party have just announced they are quitting:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/top-liberals-quit/2008/05/28/1211654089003.html
According to the SMH, this suggests that the (hard) right faction will entrench its control of the branch, as those resigning were unsuccessful in pushing reforms to limit factional influence.
Another gem for parliament. Nodding dogs.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23772200-5003402,00.html
418
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/senior-liberals-to-quit/2008/05/28/1211654087597.html
Annabel Stafford got it on the web first by a few minutes.
Check the beautiful irony about serving full terms in the final quotation from a “senior Liberal source”:
“I’m a big supporter of Geoff (Selig) and I’m sorry to see him go, but I think spitting the dummy and leaving the table is not the right way to go about it. He was elected by the party to serve the full term.”
I don’t recall a division in question time too often, or ever actually. Does this mean fewer questions or does it just make the day longer?
dovif@408, You’re delusional if you think I or others will swallow that crap.
The current economic mess was created by John Howard with his (” win an election at any cost and stuff the consequences )” throwing wads and wads of government cash into welfare, letting inflation get out of hand , and all the while carefully targeting to get the maximum result for the Liberal Party not the country.
Howard was warned, and so was the government about 20 months before the last election, about its spending but it did jacksh*t about it. Howard ( and thereby the now opposition who let him ) was quite prepared to ruin the economy all for political expediency.
According to Joe Hockey during the last election some wages rose by 50% due to WorkChoices.So any wages blowout can be directly attributed to the Liberals.
But in reality WorkChoices was designed to strip away conditions and entitlements virtually making people slaves with no rights.I had to threaten to take a National fast food chain to court, and expose them in the media for illegally forcing my 16 year old son without my consent or knowledge, to sign a wage stripping AWA. He and five others who also threatened them were dismissed.
Wilson Tuckey not a happy chap. I didn’t catch what he let go at the Speaker after being suspended.
I think he said “I’ve lost all my respect for you.”
So the hard right won out in NSW and some of Nelson’s allies resigned. I thought Nelson was from the Right – he certainly is controlled by the Right in Parliament.
The Hard Right is bad news for the small “l” Liberals and for Australia – win at all costs, end justifies the means and extreme views on society. All characteristics of a view that can tend to fanaticalism.
The Liberals in the long term seem to be “digging their own grave” as voters just do not like extremes.
Rod @399,
Interesting take. With all leaks you need to look at “who benefits”. Mar’n had his defences well rehearsed beforehand. “Yes, my Departmental submission opposed Fuelwatch but we lost the argument in Cabinet and I support the decison that emerged”.
Fuelwatch is the current Government answer to being seen to do something on petrol prices. So it is good for the Government for it to be emphasised. The Libs threatening to block it and the confused reactions of different Libs is just a bonus.
Wasting time on a division in question time? WTF? Usually members just go quietly, without waiting for a vote.
QT is the Opposition’s big chance to score. The less of it is televised, the less chances they have to get a story out there.
You don’t fritter away your opportunities like this.
A very slick and clear government performance thus far.
its is interesting how the debate will evolve into energy security
a lot of fertile ground there-not least howards gas deal with china
i think nelson has stepped on a carefully placed landmine,which may just blow up in turnbulls face as well- political chess at its most ruthless
perhaps we may start to buy back the farm/recieve equitable royalties
Chris Bowen is getting right up the Fibs noses.
He’s actually a pretty good performer – simple and clear.
Nelson is still trying to extract an idiotic (Tony Jones style) guarantee on petrol prices. Rudd has just suggested they’re the party of big oil. That’s an association that might cut through.
It’s not going to do the government too many favours with the oil industry, but there aren’t too many people who see big oil as having the moral high ground either.
FMD Nelson/Turncoat etc did not take up the offer of a briefing on Fuelwatch???
Hahhahahhh Turnbull just wastes a question by breaching the standing orders.
They know everything already apparently.
Socrates @ 381
I agree. A policy to reduce the petrol excise is bad policy. The way you wrote with concern about outcomes for the general community, is to be encouraged, and it sets a good example for other cheerers on this noticeboard.
It seems that Julia has now come across a Workchoices mug, and of course made use of the alternate meaning of that word. She has certainly squeezed every drop of humiliation out of the Opposition over Workchoices paraphernalia.
Julia has been injected, and boy to the opposition like being lectured by her don’t they. The props are back! Nelson is goin to have to turn up the indignation to beat that to tonight’s news.
Why is it that The Duchess of Sturt – who represents my electorate – can always be counted on to make the most frivolous contributions to Question Time? It is as if he just feels he needs his voice to be heard, irrespective of the meaning generated by the generated sound waves.
from Socrates 418 article about ‘Top Libs quit”
“State Opposition Leader Barry O’Farrell was also opposed to the reforms, causing the Left to withdraw its support.
Dr Nelson had backed the reforms and has implemented a separate review for similar changes to be made at a federal level”
Federal and NSW Libs at odds with each other, and just when MSM was doing such a nice job on praising all that is Brenda. LOL fools can’t take a trick.
chris bowen sorta got a bit of a dave hughes thing about him i reckon?
seems brendon $1.60 nelson is only concerned about one thing?
yes here comes tanner to put em all to shame.
“The way you wrote with concern about outcomes for the general community, is to be encouraged, and it sets a good example for other cheerers on this noticeboard.”
David, I may be doing you a disservice here but why do you feel you have to give a slap over the knuckles to some of the posters here? It’s not the first time. You may disagree with them but this slap is not going to change them. Ignore the ones you don’t like. It’s easy. Cheering and debating is what this site is all about. Noone is going to change because you want them to.
GB (440) Think about it. Cheerers include Labor and non-Labor supporters and when it is all said and done, the practise of politics should be about implementing policies which produce favourable outcomes. There are plenty of ’slaps over the knuckles’ dished out on PB threads, including by you, Gary. Anyway, I thought Socrates (381) made a good point about outcomes for the general community in the context of the ongoing debate about petrol excise, and I wanted to say so.
As much as I love your site William, I have to say it has gone to the dogs recently.
WA Govt Defends Fuelwatch, which ironically was introduced by the Court LIBERAL Government
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23772287-2761,00.html
441 David Charles – I understand all that David. My point is that by suggesting, encouraging, slapping, (call it what you will) posters so that they change their ways is a waste of time and effort. People will post what they want to post in the manner they want to post it, subject to William’s standards. You won’t change that. Why bother trying to?
442,
Woof woof!
dovif @ 401 -
He [Rudd] talks about the Education revolution, then took laptops out of the FBT, so the kids of today won’t get help with their education.
So you admit that the relatively well off have been rorting the tax system to get their kids cheap computers while children of ordinary PAYE taxpayers have missed out?
OTOH, isn’t Rudd giving laptops to all kids, even those in working families.
He talks about being Green, then mean test solar panel (can someone tell me how someone on $35k a year can use solar panel, when they are having enough problem paying for housing and fuel)
My pension/super is about that and I could afford the $5K for a 1 KWh system. So could my mother on her aged pension, though, because she has more north facing roof area, her system only cost $3,800.
Interestingly, while I’m the only person on my street with solar (either hot water or PV) I’m also the only one without a pay TV dish.
But, as I’ve posted here before, I am far from convinced that individual solar systems provide the most environmental benefit, or is the best use of resources and our tax dollars.
Installation of solar hot water systems provides the greatest environmental/economic bang for your buck, followed by bringing houses up to at least a 5 star energy rating, which very few Australian homes are. Indeed, many are barely better than tents at keeping heat in/out.
Only then should solar PV be considered. Even so, large scale solar farms in areas with the highest annual solar radiation would be better both environmentally and fiscally and might even have social benefits by providing long-term jobs in remote communities.
Plus, as Ebenezer points out at 409, some of the states (SA, QLD) and the ACT are, or soon will be providing very significant incentives for grid-connect systems. No doubt the other will follow. While these only just make solar economically viable ATM, with likely big hikes in tariffs solar could well end up being a nice little earner in the future.
I am getting sick of this petrol crud. In my case Brenda would save me $1 a month, Rudd about 36 cents. (I use about 20 litres a month).
The Liberal Party strategy is silly, parliament has another week to run. The wisdom is that Thursday is the crunch day and Brenda has fired all his ammo already. Then there is next week – if the Libs think they can bang on about petrol for two weeks they are more deluded than I think they are.
This time next week petrol will be a minor issue again. Where it belongs.
I don’t know about anybody else but in watching QT today I felt that the heat had already dissapated from the petrol argument. I still think the government should mount a detailed case against the 5c a litre stunt. May be that’s coming tomorrow.
The government looked relaxed and performed well. Martin did his best and made some valid points. He’s not a great orator but he described the situation as it is. I would think end of story on that.
Again, Truss puts his point of view quietly and plainly–4WDs needed by farmers, not a luxury vehicle. Tony Windsor made the same point.
Much prefer them to the hysteria of Brenda, Jockey etc
445 – My point proven. I guess it is largely due to the fact that bugger all has in reality been happening.
Thomase @ 449 -
I doubt anyone has a problem with farmers, or anyone else that really needs one, having a 4WD. However, most are bought more for their pose value thyan any genuine need.
There are ways that farmers etc could get a rebate on any extra tax that the government might impose.
I know some people buy 4WDs because they believe they are safer. That apparently isn’t quite as clearcut as many believe. However, to the extent it is true, any additional protection in an accident is mostly gained at the expense of the other vehicle and its occupants. A large 4WD will destroy a smaller sedan and kill its occupants in an accident that they would survive if the other car was a regular sedan, though admittedly its occupants would likely suffer greater injury.
Even worse, many 4WDs are fitted with thumping great bull bars that add greatly to their lethality. I regularly come across one that has a bull bar the projecting top of which is at temple height for most people when seated in the average sedan. If it hit you in a side-on prang you’d have no hope even with side airbags.
I admit 4WDs are a bane of my life, especially in car parks.
And “Battling” Pensioners who need thm to tow their Caravans around the country living like Gypsies.
The channel 9 website is trying to make a big deal out of it (Oakes) with an ‘exclusive’ – leaked departmental memos recommending against the petrol watch scheme.
If it works in WA as they said on AM this morning that it did and produce about 2c liter lower cost on average in WA – how can they say the opposite? If that is the only factual data about the rest must be opinion.
The problem for the nay sayers is that it is anti-intuitive to say the scheme will increases costs instead of keep them lower than usual. At least people would assume at worst a neutral effect.
That is why this issue in itself wont bite with the electorate. Though I guess the whole big deal with Nelson and parts of the MSM is to be seen to making a stand, no matter how silly, as that will wins some votes over.
Once again it is crud about 4WD being in the luxury car class, how much for a Toyota Landcruiser Prado? Well if you want the “Sophisticated and stylish” or “Lavish and luxurious” yes you have to pay the tax. If you want “Understated elegance” there is one model that attracts the tax.
If you want “Performance and safety” or “Practical and purposeful” you do not pay luxury car tax.
http://www.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/RangePage/0,5141,3865_582,00.html
hehehe I hate the @#^&# 4WDs too, I was only talking about debating style.
A farmer buying them would claim them as an expense, receiving back the GST and getting and being able to claim depreciation.
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Probably claims the diesel fuel rebate as well.
If you want to know How fuelwatch works in WA, here is their FAQ page.
http://www.fuelwatch.wa.gov.au/misc/dsp_faq.cfm
MSM and politicians are going from one minor issue to another and it is distracting from the main issues of the budget. MSM may have contempt for the punters and think that blowing up a tiny issue will give it traction for Nelson, but hip pocket aware voters are going to say – this only saves me about $2/week, so what? And they stop listening “just a lot of pollies posturing on how much they care about people-BS!”. People are not as silly as they think.
The worst is it takes up valuable time in Parliament and Media that could be used to discuss the main features of the budget. What of nation building? – infrastructure, broadband, health, improving productivity thru removing blocks in infrastructure? The benefits from these will dwarf the petrol fiasco.
What about Climate Change – will it get attention when the final report is done? This issue must be the most important of this generation BUT THERE IS NO DEBATE!
Why cannot the budget be an opportunity to educate the people and get them to be involved in these issues? Why cannot our pathetic media play its part rather than worrying about piddling issues.
The true plot has been lost.
Landeryou, always entertaining in a strange way, has a bit of a go at Turnbull.
RICH AND THICK: Malcolm Turnbull Defends Child Porn
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/
I suspect a word below put my comment in the sin bin… try again.
Landeryou, always entertaining in a strange way, has a bit of a go at Turnbull.
RICH AND THICK: Malcolm Turnbull Defends Child P&orn
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/
I note with interest The Age, Mr. Rudd’s mouth piece, is not carrying the headline, “Rudd ignored FuelWatch price warnings.”
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=570866
I feel Rudd is just going through the motions waiting until the end of June when the Coalition become totaly irrelevent. They will be lame ducks in both houses then and I doubt if the government will even bother discussing anything with them. All the talking will be with the Greens, FF fella and the anti pokie chap.
Also the tax cuts and bonuses will kick in then as well.
I love how Kev isn’t playing the msm or opposition’s games,(and don’t they hate it) he remains quietly spoken,cool and calm as always. Refuses to give any oxygen to the fires Brenda and co are trying to light.
Oh I so love this line: “The leaked document shows the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet did not support a scheme based on the Western Australian model.”
Such ammunition!
I called it a few days ago petrol is going to be a big ticket item for the next couple of weeks as it heads for $1.70 + . The good Lord help us all.
12 and 13 year old kids should not be photographed in the buff. End of story.
Tell that to the parents who take “funny photos”
I wonder if the awful behavior of the LNP in parliament is trying to get Albanese/Govt to move that the member for north sydney be no longer be heard aka Abbott.
Yeah it’s pretty bad. Government’s should always listen to advice they’re offered… and the ACCC advice they’re supposedly relying on? It’s weak and not enough to counter the advice of a separate 4 departments.
It’d be better to do nothing than do something that will just cost money and still do nothing.
How old was Michaelangelo’s David?
All the more reason for the Govt to puts some early and deep focus on public transport development from their Infrastructure Australia fund. He made mention of if the other night.
467
That was a painting by a great artist not a sleazy photo that any sicko would be capable of snapping.
Kina, if you have any sway a metropolitan rail link around melbourne linking all the lines would be great for starters. Then a bullet train linking Geelong to Melbourne and Ballarat to Melbourne would be great, I think this would help creat larger regional centres which would ease the housing affordability crisis…. Hey what ever happened to that?
For roads a freeway linking the ring road with the eastern and newly developed scoresby freeway would be welcome.
Vera, David was a sculpture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_%28Michelangelo%29
The Age is up to speed.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pm-under-the-pump/2008/05/28/1211654116550.html
JoM
If you downloaded the pictures to your PC you would be committing a criminal act.
Painting, Sculpture etc. is fine. A photograph is not. I am an artist is not a defense.
He wasn’t a child John of Melbourne. The whole point of this art debate is that the paintings are not pornographic. It’s just hysteria.
Ruawake I confess I am not upto speed with the artist controversy, do you have a link?
Oh, for goodness sake, don’t start up on the Henson photos stuff. It’s a pseph site.
Senator Brandis says artists must act within the boundaries of the law.
“No artist has a carte blanche to say, ‘Because I’m an artist, I’m entitled to breach the criminal law in relation to matters like child p*rnography’,” he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/28/2258174.htm
How about that one JoM?
The MSM and the liberal party just can’t understand how pathetic they have become!
On tonights channel 10 news, Ron Wilson was telling viewers where the cheapest petrol is here in Sydney. He has been doing it for years. Informing viewers where the cheapest petrol is in Sydney.
Fuelwatch will be doing what Ron has been doing for years but at a more informative, productive and practical way.
All you liberal supporters must be so proud of the cheap political point scoring, irresponsible policies of your mob!
Hang your heads in shame!
462
John of Melbourne, you may think it ripe pickings for an attack, but do you really think any Australian gov’t. has any real capacity to alter the price of oil? Like many others, I’m sick to death of the rubbish that goes on at the Federal level in politics. Tantrums, confected outrage, and the rest of it just infuriate me.
Turnbull, with his gratuitous comments, will be burning bridges with the cross-waving Exclusive Brethren-type fundies who are so critical to the Coalition vote.
Who should we really blame for higher petrol prices at the bowser?
Hmmm, Who introduced the GST? Who went to war in Iraq where oil prices have quadruppled since the invasion?
That’s right. The Dessicated Coconut.
So there Piers Akerman. You Dessicated Rice Bubble.
HSO
I agree, parliament has become a farce this week, the Libs and thier constant points of order, Wilson Tuckey gettin booted every other day.
I noticed The Speaker getting peeved today – warning members and naming Tuckey.
Rudd has tried to be Mr Nice guy, its about time he shafted a few PS Dept heads left over from Howard. Tuckey is in deep poo after refusing to apologise to the chair today.
Thanks Ruawake… tricky one.
Centre and HSO, Rudd went into the election giving the impression that he can help reduce the cost of living pressures on everyday working families, he is only being held up to the impression he gave to the community. You call it cheap political point scoring but when Rudd and Labor were doing it from opposition it was ok?
HSO, No the government does not have any real capacity to alter the price of oil but it can change laws, regulations and standards. It could begin by asking questions why diesel is dearer then unleaded seing as though it is cheaper to produce. The government can tell car makers that they will only be able to produce diesel running engines which are more fuel efficeint etc…
479
Interesting observation, Rx, particularly given the exit today of the so-called moderates, aligned with Nelson, from the N.S.W. Libs., leaving said party in the hands of the really, really neocon/fundie right. Looks more and more like disaster for the LNP to me, but hey, let’s try and crucify the gov’t about leaks from gov’t dep’ts, ESJ?
I’ll get back to you later, people. Dinner has landed.
No John of M, the Prime Minister said he will do as much as he can to lower petrol prices – at the margins. Everone knows petrol prices are largely determined by world oil prices.
The PM has done something, and is trying.
Coconut did – NOTHING!
John of Melbourne he did no such thing. He merely said that he understood cost of living pressures, unlike the Howard Government who said Australian’s had never been better off. It’s funny how they thought that then and now less than a year later suddenly Australians have never been worse off.
Centre, Who introduced the GST? The Australian people voted for it. Go on repeal it!
Who went to war in Iraq where oil prices have quadruppled since the invasion? So Iraq is the worlds no.1 oil producer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_producing_countries#Production
487 So Iraq is the worlds no.1 oil producer?
Centre made no such claim, JoM.
LTEP, “He merely said that he understood cost of living pressures”
Well if he said he understands them what is he doing about them?
See he gave the impression he is here to help. Did he say that in a comercial… Hi I’m Kevin I’m here to help?
Lol, wait unitl the media hold him to ask about hospitals… Don’t forget the buck stops with him. I think that question will be asked in about a year or twos time.
No he said that to the party conference. I’m not sure anyone ever thought he would bring down petrol or grocery prices. But we still deserve better policy than the spin they’re giving us and something 4 departments have told them is a dog.
John of M,
Howard and that man of strength Costello LOL, introduced the GST – without majority of the total vote.
Iraq would have been in a position to make a greater contribution than it has.
LTEP, oh yeah thank you for jogging my memory it was at the party conference.
You said, “I’m not sure anyone ever thought he would bring down petrol or grocery prices.”
I was in Safeway (Woolworths) the other day and the cashier started talking to me about prices going up and up and she said, “we got this new guy, what is the government doing about it?”
This from Labor heartland Maribyrnong imagine the feelings in the mortgage belt.
Well I guess those people are just as stupid as anyone who believed Howard could keep interest rates low.
Looks like someone needs a quick fix.
Something approximating 6000 years of civilisation have passed and we’re expecting a fix to a global problem to be produced miraculously in the Australian parliament.
Give me a break.
Centre, Thank you Democrats.
“Iraq would have been in a position to make a greater contribution than it has.” You mean to say Iraq was producing more oil during the food for oil program?
JoM we are waiting with anticipation to hear what wisdom you imparted to the tory you attracted in Labor heartland Maribyrnong.
Onimod,
“Something approximating 6000 years of civilisation have passed and we’re expecting a fix to a global problem to be produced miraculously in the Australian parliament.”
Give me a break.
I feel the same way about global warming
Steve, sorry to disappoint but I just agreed and went on my way.
Turnbull is actually being very smart. It is the small “l” liberals who the Liberal party has lost and it is the small “l” who are one’s defending the artist. Makes sense.
Also if anyone is interested here is the NSW Crimes Act on child pornography:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s91h.html .
Section 4C would suggest that no actual crime has been committed, as distasteful some may find them.
J of M, right now demand is excessively outstripping supply. Iraq should have been in a position to supply far more than it has being the second richest oil nation in the world. But nooo, thanks to Howard and his pretend best mate Dubya.
JoM I thought you would have at least told her to watch Question time and seriously consider whether the performance of those on the left of the speaker are a rabble or…on second thoughts walking away probably is the best thing to do. Well done.
So government departments determine policy? Rubbish policy should be done by the executive. Although i do not think to much about the price watch scheme, i do think that it may have some impact on oil companies and their behaviour because it at least will be keeping them accountable, they are at least being watched.
Who is leading this carry on about the scheme and who hates it – no doubt oil companies. At least the government is trying things, but realistically it better start focusing on rail freight, public transport and public housing because these are areas which will help the affordability situation.
John you are kind of correct when you say what is he doing? Really what he is doing seems to be bandaid solutions.
However at least he cares the previous lot did not give a stuff and they wanted to cut workers wages and make the workers’ lives even harder and harsher.
On the Henson art, Rudd should have kept his mouth shut. Nonetheless i am still trying to work out what is Art? From what i have seen this to me is not art.
What is stopping me or anyone else from doing the same and saying this is art also.
Centre, I read in the Australian that its a buble.
From the sounds of silence it would appear that Iraq is doing better now. If Iraq can continue to be a stable democracy then yeah ha to Dubya!
489
John of Melbourne, I refer you to Possum’s piece on the Real Rudd Revealed. No matter how much Nelson does his faux compassion number, it isn’t believable, due to Nelson’s obvious proclivity to go where he thinks his bread will be better buttered. Don’t expect Rudd to do anything other than what he has done. Check out chicks in Maribyrnong are hardly a representative sample of the population, and I should know given where I live and work – Western Melbourne burbs – changing, and therein lies the rub. The perception being conveyed in the MSM seems to vary from the recent polling. Now the polling may be different next time around, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
What’s the point of asking the public service for advice if you’re not going to listen to it?
John did you tell the cashier that if Howard was still in government her penalty rates, long service leave entitlements, leave loading and a range of other benefits
would probably be under threat.
504
LTEP, because the purpose of having a public service is to proffer advice, and the purpose of having a government is to listen to the advice, weigh it, and make a decision for which you will be held accountable, whether you’ve got it wrong or right, or somewhat.
HSO what does changing mean?
LTEP, I suppose its to ask whether an idea has merit but cabinet also said it disagreed.
MM, No but I sure she would have been fairly compensated. Lol, Howard could have been still in office if he had only kept a safety net.
Yes John of M,
Do you know why Iraq is doing better now? Because we’re leaving. And when Barrack Obama becomes president, so will they.
LTEP
I’ll tell you something else. The public service can and do deliberately tell governments stuff that they want them to do, that they know is political suicide, they also provide advice out of their rear ends. I can personally think of one State gov’t dep’t. who is inhabitated by people who haven’t got a clue about the actual work that needs to be done. Mind you, that would happen under any Party. Perhaps there needs to be more attention paid to the role of the bureaucrats? I’m sure Rudd and his Ministers will be paying some attention to such things after the leaks to Channel 9 tonight
Centre, 300 are leaving 200 are staying how is that leaving?
If he becomes pres, bama will do no such thing he’ll weisel out of it by saying the Iraq government has asked us to stay
Howard would have abolished the “fairness test” if he had got back in. It was too troublesome to administer (tens of thousands of “agreements” were banking up because they had failed the test).
Then he would have gone much further with WorkChoices, perhaps abolishing awards entirely, the minimum wage, and holidays.
The checkout chick’s (especially people like checkout chicks) life would have taken a steep dive for the worse if the silvertail tories had been re-elected.
Rx well never know.
Iraq is a mess. It was an illegal war built on a lie and oil. Meanwhile over half a million of iraqs’ citizens are either dead, maimed or psychologically destroyed whilst troops go home destroyed mentally and physically causing fragmented families and greater costs on health and welfare departments. This was a no brainer of a war and today Iraq is going no where. Wars between factional groups, a people who suffer daily due to inadequate social and physical infrastructure.
In the late 80’s Iraq was one of best economic performers in the world but then America decided to pull the plug with sanctions and then eventually bomb the hell out of it and then invade- today it is a basket case. Just because iraq wished to stand up to America. Bush, Howard and Blair should be jail should be jail for this genocide and complete and utter disgrace which consequences will linger for several generations.
I agree with Socrates @ 381. From a policy perspective I hope the Government stands firm on petrol prices, or only gives away something symbolic. That’s not to say there won’t ever be a case for cushioning the blow of rising energy costs for battlers, but there must be better ways, surely.
From a political perspective as a supporter, I hope the Government stands firm too. It really does seem dumb for the Liberals to risk their economic credentials over this, as Laura Tingle seemed to be hinting last night on Agenda. It’s a real pity that half the press gallery currently seems to be cheering on a policy that, in the US, was pretty much roundly condemned by respectable opinion, even on the network news. But it’s very, very dangerous for the Coalition to think that that will be sufficient to overcome the long term damage.
Minchin did drop quite a few hints when he actually apologised that WorkChoices – already among the most extreme IR laws in the western world – did not go far enough.
The rodent is on the record as far back as the 1980s for wanting to attack the minimum wage. (This from a bloke who has never run a business OR worked a real job in his life). Costello likewise. In government they opposed every rise to the minimum wage … except after they’d imposed WorstChoices when it was politically expedient to support rises through gritted teeth.
The Coalition dirtbags were – and I believe still are – the greatest threat to living standards of workers in living memory.
Perhaps the bureaucrats are upset with the 2 percent budget cut.
What did Rudd say to the Chinese premier when he was in Beijing, “are you on Facebook?”
http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/grandpa-wen-shows-up-on-facebook/2008/05/28/1211654096729.html
Where is Corey when you need him
517
It is strange to see us behind the US on the stupidity of fuel excise, but I guess that’s where the MSM and the opposition are at at this point.
An excellent day for the OO. Headlines on front page:
Rudd twisted ACCC fuel advice: Opposition slams Labor ‘fraud’ after watchdog warned of petrol price rise. The day Nelson breaks through (Shamaham)
PM hits brakes on luxury car tax (Shamaham)
FuelWatch ‘benefits oil majors’ (Elizabeth Gosch)
Middle pages, ‘The Nation’:
Taxpayers foot bill for MPs’ carbon (Steve Creedy)
ANZ predicts two rate rises this year (David Uren)
Enough oil to last ‘for at least another 30 years’ (Siobhain Ryan)
Butler polishes silver-tongued Rudd’s cliches (Christian Kerr)
Taxpayer footing bill for valet, Liberals say (Patricia Karvelas)
No effort made to soothe Japan on visit (unattributed)
No letter of the law for PM’s ministers (Patricia Karvelas)
Nelson tells troops to be ready for early poll (Matthew Franklin)
Budget reforms to hit family trust members with tax fines (David Uren)
Salvos demand action on homelessness, not reviews (Stephen Lunn)
My favourite is ‘Nelson tells troops to be ready for early poll.’
I hope you only picked it up and scanned this rag, i for one do not read or buy a Murdoch paper it only encourages them to write rubbish and stay in print.
507
John of Melbourne, Have a look at the ABS site on the changing demographic. I think you’re in the same LGA as I am? Have a look at the real estate pages in the local rags. Despite the Western burbs of Melbourne being the immediate repository of the displaced of the world, and some of the most god awful housing I’ve ever seen in my life, somehow it still works. Badly at times, I’d grant you, and I have a necessarily skewed view, given the population I work with, but nevertheless, somehow or other, mostly, people work together here. Our back neighbours are dyed in the wool LNP voters, but we have a shared gate between our properties, so we can look after their dog and garden when they are away, and they look after our cat and garden when we are away.
522 the OO
what’s the bet the fuel companies have offered to pay for some advertising this week, but conveniently failed to submit the artwork.
“It’s okay – we’ll pay anyway. Our fault…”
522 Apres, that’s impressive, even for the OO. They must be really worried.
I’m not up with all the abreviations what does LGA and OO mean?
HSO may I ask what profession your in? I’m an engineer, went to school at St. Bernards
521 – Depressing isn’t it.
Another interesting thing Tingle sort of said last night was that Nelson is afraid of giving the Government double dissolution triggers on controversial issues. If Nelson is trying to avoid a double dissolution sometime next year full stop, he only gets one free go. Would he want to use it yet?
526 Harry
Sh*tting themselves, I reckon
526 HSO, this is probably revenge for the loss of Federal Government advertising dollars showered on the OO by the last Howard government and not continued this year.
You wonder if the Liberals have a mole in the public service?
The $64 question is: who is the leaker?
It’ll be a bad day tomorrow for Rudd Inc: wait for all the crowing from the MSM, doing their best to display their obvious anti-Labor bias.
There really have been some nasty leaks that sort of point to the public service in the last few months. Sometimes a bit of leaking doesn’t go astray (indeed, it can be a very good thing) but when it seems to be fed directly into the newscycle at a point most calculated to damage one side of politics, on a consistent basis, that really is a poor effort by those concerned if it was people in the public service.
I think that a confident prediction can be made that there will be far less leaking in future parliamentary sessions than there has been this session. Rudd would be implementing watertight changes to ensure the integrity of confidential cabinet papers by now. The Ferguson leak was a poor move because there won’t be any second chances given to get a hit on Rudd using that method.
Rudd made very few changes to the upper echelons of the Public Service compared to what incoming governments usually make, but if the leaks continue he will soon remedy the situation.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the leaker is Martin Ferguson?
Perhaps he’s been told Rudd will soon replace him in cabinet with Combet or Shorten or McKew, so it’s Martin’s revenge?
534 Progressive. No , it would be disgruntled tories trying to boost Nelson’s numbers for sure. It was not the gameplan to have him limping along this far behind the field. The only solution is to replace him but the Tories are incapable of making a good decision and sticking to it so hence diversions and theatrics are the only thing left to them while they refuse to deal with the problem.
A bit obvious isn’t it? Or is the obviousness the cover? But isn’t that a bit obvious?
The real story is going to become the leaking itself, not the content. The content is easily dealt with as Swan did tonight.
Where did all the ex Howard ministerial staffers end up? In London or in the Federal Public Service I’d guess.
Replacing Martin with Conroy? I think Conroy goes to Martin for advice and Martin does the same with Conroy and look what you get… Time to put McKew in Cabinet, more talent than Shorten, Conroy and Martin put together, oh i forgot she is unaligned, no hope now.
I doubt whether McKew’s unalignedness would be a permanent bar to her. That would be dumb if that’s what it actually came down to, and I don’t think Rudd’s dumb. But now’s not the time for a reshuffle. No-one’s making an obvious goose of themselves. Quite the contrary. A reshuffle would make it look like they were spooked by something, and I genuinely doubt they are that spooked. The polls show pretty clearly that they have no cause to be.
GG@426
“Fuelwatch is the current Government answer to being seen to do something on petrol prices. So it is good for the Government for it to be emphasised.”
Agree GG, all that happened the past 12 years was libs sat back and watch the market be dominated by 2 players, Fuel Watch helps the small players, their number has grown in WA since Fuel watch there.
The more publicity for petrol the better for the govt, highlights the inaction of the previous govt as they let the smaller operators be driven out by the big 2.
527
John of Melbourne, You’re an engineer and don’t know what a LGA is? What form of engineering are you in? A LGA is a Local Government Area. The OO is the Opposition Organ, formally known as “the Australian”. I’m a mental health clinician/manager, do both direct work with people and also manage $20 million plus budget and the management of same as required.
Not if you believe the crap in Today’s West.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=75768
I think they have been spooked by petrol prices definately and Nelsons’ policy and this worries me. Rudd made a big mistake last week when he said we have done all we can to help people, a stupid comment which boxed him in regarding petrol prices.
His comments on the nude paintings were also stupid, he should have said nothing, instead he has alienated people and allowed others to take the moral ground.
530
Steve, Now there’s an interesting thought. Interesting to see how it plays out, though I suspect Rudd is a lot smarter than you’re average bear.
I doubt the Bill Henson business will damage Rudd in any way!
The general punter thinks the arts community are a bunch of toffee nosed bludgers!
1.3 million people are about to be re-located in China due to the formation of quake lakes and after shocks. Does this put petrol prices into perspective? That’s 1.3 million people. Got that?
546 I agree on the likely reaction to the Bill Henson thing. I actually agree with the PM on the merits though. I saw a big Henson exhibition a few years back that I’m pretty sure had some of the photos in question. I tend to agree that they should not have been shown. I usually come down on the side of free speech and free artistic expression, but this seems a little different somehow. I do, however, feel a bit sorry for the artist, at this stage anyway. I think a reasonable outcome would be that we have no more such exhibitions (with some clarity on what the boundaries are) but that we go easy on the artist in acknowledgement that, until now, the photos in question wouldn’t have struck a lot of people as obviously illegal (if that’s what they are under the relevant legal tests).
Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the Henson business, I wish Rudd had let questions about it go through to the keeper. One of the many things that used to really annoy me about Howard was his commentary about everything and anything, particularly matters he quite obviously knew bugger all about. Fair dinkum, if a dog farted in Woop Woop he’d offer an opinion – after first making it very clear it wasn’t his job to give running commentaries.
He was right, it wasn’t. Nor is it Rudd’s. Especially when the law is already involved.
549 MayoFeral – hang on unlike Howard on many of these issues Rudd was shown the picture and asked for his opinion on a TV interview? He hadn’t seen it before. What was he supposed to do say no comment?
549 agreed
He went part way to explaining the difference between his personal views and that of the government during Q&A, and yet goes straight back into confusing the population with his personal viewpoint, which is irrelevant in terms of real decision making.
He should have directed the question to the attorney general if there were legal implications he was aware of, or the arts minister if he was not.
He may well have couched the comment with the fact that it was his personal view [I'm too lazy to look] but the forum was one where he was representing the government.
Answering the question encourages the same innanity next time.
549 You’re right about shutting up when the law’s involved. This is actually a reasonably serious business, from a legal and a policy perspective, if it’s going to be sorted out properly. It needs some careful thought.
Erm, Molesworth and MayoFeral, did you notice my previous Post? Really, really big numbers of actual people are out on….nothing? One point three million people.
Oh, bugger, I might eventually get the hang of this posting business, though I doubt it. Probably best just to go back to being a lurker. Retires to middle distance. nighty night polllbludgers.
I did notice it HSO. I couldn’t really say much. The only good thing I can say is that I hope the (limited) media openness puts a little pressure on a few people to do a better job than usual responding to it.
#522 apres
The OO having a coordinated assault today on Rudd Labor. That level of undermining doesn’t happen by accident, only by design. So probably new instructions from above, but how high up? The old fecal Sun God or the fecal Editors in chief. Probably a Murdoch Troll given instructions to keep alive neocon politics in Australia, seeing that Nelson and his bunch of no hopers are in the process of destroying it. In any case nothing new there – the GG now OO didn’t get its nick name for nothing. Just a trashy paper with an array of trashy journalists.
Don’t buy it and don’t read it on-line. Only will read anything if there is a copy laying around in a cafe. But really it is useless except if you want read Nelson mind.
Why would anyone bother with the OO in anycase. If you are looking for decent analytical pieces with truth, context and fact you wont find too much in the OO. I think they as about lacking in talent and moral fibre as the Nelson Liberal party – I guess they mirror the Liberal party, hence their abysmal standards and denial of truth.
Honestly though, would any Liberal supporter want the current crew to win government? Can you imagine watch damage Minchin and Bishop would inflict on Australians! God forbid they get to implement their 1810s IR policies. Surly Liberal supporters would want the party to let some blood and reform itself properly?
The issue Henson is a non-issue for the general public. Rudd made a comment about it, the whole nation would understand where he was coming from and, no doubt support the notion generally naked photos of young pre-teen girls is on the wrong side of the ledger.
The fuel watch nonsense will be swamped by international goings on on oil prices. Nelson can block fuel watch if he wants but it aint going to sound good when election time comes around – a sound bite for Rudd on Nelson being friends of the oil companies and not wanting scrutiny of petrol pricing etc..
Wrong issue Brendan no matter if it gives you a few points in the polls for ’seemingly’ being in the fight for a change. He isn’t really of course, the media is just making out he is.
We are having a function this weekend to raise some money for the China relief effort…so if your in Darwin come to the Mall on Saturday.
It’s a good point Harry.
The scientific method is just catching on with the general population – we know how to get from the general to the detail.
Getting back up from the detail to the general is still a struggle.
What’s Paris Hilton up to today?
It is an unfortunate truth for China throughout its history that in having such a large population any disaster is going to be a big scale disaster. At least this time around they are a much richer country and hopefully more able to deal with their problems.
You will see below that in 1998 floods left 14 million homeless, 5 million houses destroyed.
1998
China suffered massive flooding concentrated in three areas during the 1998 summer: Along the Yangtze River in south central China; across extreme southern China in the area around the Gulf of Tonkin; and across the north near the former USSR border. The heaviest rainfall was reported at Qinzhou, with an incredible 68.28 inches of rain during the June-July period. According to official Chinese government reports, 3656 people have been killed by the floods, the second worst to hit the country in more than 130 years. Many observers believe the death toll is higher, although it is unlikely the casualty rate will reach 1954’s level of 30,000 dead. The floods have left 14 million people homeless, affected 240 million people, destroyed 5 million houses, damaged 12 million houses, flooded 25 million hectares of farmland, and caused over $20 billion ($US) in estimated damages.
If servos could drop their price would that make FW a tiny bit less marginal?
Cost of oil is going up, nothing much can be done about that in the short term, so Fuel Watch is practically useless but it may make people feel better.
Longer term, alternative energy/fuel, much better fuel efficinecies, public transport etc
need to allow Auslink to invest in public ransport.
555 Molesworth Good to know you’re out there. Again, night to all, don’t let the MSM bite.
Sniggle.
I have posted this some time in the past but it is quite relevant and important if it leads to commercially viable use. If it works out then you could have ugly ‘coal’ power with ZIF filtering and so on to reduce greenhouse gases and buy us some time on renewables etc.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/new-materials-can-selectively-45139.aspx
Well the Murdoch press is ready to declare that that their efforts this week have turned Rudd into a one term wonder. It appears Glen Milne the greatest political genius in Australia has won the day. Put down the binoculars the race for the next election is over. It is in black and white in the Courious Snail, so it must be true. I think the journalist is in need of a good holiday myself, he is suffering from Murdoch groupthink.
Link
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23776380-3102,00.html
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! All of us should now put up the white flag and give up.
Harry “Snapper” Organs @ 553 -
Yes, I had noticed, but what can you say? Shows just how little we really are in the scheme of things, despite our overinflated egos. Or maybe because of it.
However, the Chinese seem to be doing everything possible to look after the survivors.
Unfortunately, the 4 million or so homeless created by the very unnatural disaster we helped create in Iraq are getting no help or even consideration from us or the wider international community beyond the neighbouring countries that have taken many of them. And, moreover, have done so without building a single
psychological torture facilitydetention centre, or arm twisting poor island nations into doing the dirty work for them.The only (tenuously) related passion being generated here is over the building of a mosque!
565 Muskiemp, looks to me like a desperate rerun of the conservative budget bounce drama from last year which is still to materialise. I’m sure these journalists have no idea how odd their stories are.
Brendan has butted in on the scheduled government business in the House and moved a censure motion against Rudd. These sorts of interruptions by the Opposition are quite common first thing on Thursdays. Labor used to do it all the time. Usually it ends when the government moves that the member be “no longer heard” and after a few divisions, taking 10-15 minutes, government business resumes. But so far they are letting Nelson go.
I don’t understand the rules about these things. What’s to stop an Opposition member interrupting things and forcing divisions at any time, not just first thing in the morning?
Do they need to seek leave to move a censure motion?
I think I heard the Speaker ask if leave was granted and it was. IIRC, most of these interruptions are not censure motions. They are just Opposition members making statements attacking the government, and I don’t remember leave being necessary in those cases.
Triton, Rudd has just reversed it into a censure against Lord Nelson. The censure against Nelson will be the one that succeeds.
Well the Government obviously doesn’t mind their business being disrupted otherwise they’d deny leave and go through the much lesser hassle of having a debate on the suspension of standing orders.
As for the other times when Opposition members get up and speak to attack the Government I assume that’s during allotted times of the day where they are allowed to, on notice (for instance MPIs etc.). Any of those can be sped up by moving a closure if the Government really wants to.
The truth is that despite what the Opposition and Murdoch Press have been frothing at the mouth about all week, the government wants to thrash out the Petrol price issue this week. It is the Government who sets the agenda and this is their agenda.
You’d imagine their agenda would be of a more legislative kind.
It is exactly that and the Opposition is determined to oppose and vote against it in the Senate. It is the first step towards rounding the opposition up for a double dissolution down the track.
Well, this is going to take at least an hour out of the day’s proceedings. Really it’s a waste of time. We aren’t hearing anything new.
These sorts of motions usually occur after Question Time, so I wonder what Nelson has planned for this afternoon.
On the interminable fuel debate, Graeme Samuel essentially supported the government position on radio this morning and contradicted the Opposition, yet as I write this Turnbull is still rabbiting on about the ACCC report.
576 “On the interminable fuel debate”
Triton, you aint seen nothin yet.
Here is the process for the Fuelwatch legislation.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s57.html
This Time article puts our petrol/diesel prices in perspective. The Europeans are paying between AU$2.20 – 2.60/L. Note in particular the amount of tax they pay on fuel. Our government is almost Santa Clausish in comparison.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1809900,00.html
In comparison, today’s SYDNEY MORNING HERALD was more interested in Qantas/row over the Islamic school in Camden/Bill Henson/N.S.W Liberal Party disintergration!
As for Milne, he’s been a Coalition cheerleader for a while. Is his wife still working for Crosby/Textor?
#577 steve
You could be right. I’m sure they’d like a trigger for a DD, just in case they want to use it, but I think it would be a hard sell for Rudd that this issue is worth an election. I think they’d need something more important and add Fuelwatch as an extra just to strengthen their case.
And for all the supposed media outrage and posturing from Nelson, I’ve got a funny feeling the next Newspoll will show Rudd’s ratings going up.
This is all just very minor fiddling at the margins!
That Nelson does go over the top! Tarago with weelchair & five kids, FFS!
Governments tend to stack these things up to stretch the opposition and make them look totally incompetent by the time the time the double Dissolution is announced. They will do the same thing with forcing the Opposition to vote against improving grocery prices and interest rates too. It all adds up to making the Opposition totally inept and unable to handle the fury being directed at their offices.
The Deputy Treasurer just gave out the email addresses of Nelson and Turnbull for people to direct complaints about petrol prices. The staff in opposition offices haven’t got the resources of Government and will find it difficult to handle the responses. Once half a dozen major issues are opened up against them their life will be a nightmare.
I suppose this censure debate will end sometime today?
Nelson will completely make a dogs breakfast out of this: not even the cheerleading from Shamaham and the Poisoned Dwarf can save the toff from Bradfield.
Steve: I think Chris Bowen is good value, enjoying watching the bloke in parliament.
The Opposition Orifice and now the Curious Snail in on the act? What planet is Porteous from, what dimension? Govt and PM support at near record levels and he talks about a one term govt?
OK I get it, the whole point is try and sell a lie to the public, that the govt is struggling. Try to create the impression that the govt is not up to scratch.
You have to have some pitty on Milne, the same sort of pitty that Gollum generated, a poor sick creature unaware of how detestable he had become in the sight of man. He has attached is flag to another bunch of losers – seems Milne is set to always be the loser in life.
It won’t be the last time News Ltd hacks end up with egg on their faces.
when i watched question time yesterday i was thinking of one thing – b in p and ps bring it on (substantially influenced by my daughter though…)
586
I reckon he’s all right too.
I was thinking about the pluses and minus for both teams on this issue.
It’s allowed Chris Bowen and Mar’n to both get up on stage and they haven’t faulted.
Does it allow any moles to be uncovered on an issue that surely won’t raise an eyebrow come the next election?
If Wong & co. have some really big ammunition to fire at the carbon industry later this year, it does give a bit of a clue as to how the fight will be fought, and who is in who’s pocket – even if it’s troops on your ‘own side’.
Does it paint a pattern on the MSM?
Maybe Rudd is prepared to be a one-termer, so long as they get hold of the Senate at the end of it. I can’t see the Australian population letting the LP get control of both houses for some time, no matter how bad Rudd travels.
This is a great version of a good censure debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKN4qWo7×1Y
steve, how relevant is a DD trigger now anyway with the current Senate consigned to the dustbin in about a month? It would have to be the new Senate that won’t pass the bill, and I’d say that’s unknown at this stage.
Labor will want to eventually win the upper house in it’s own right rather than have to depend on the whim of various groupings of small parties and independents I’d assume.
Yes, but they won’t be able to justify a DD election because of anything this Senate does. They’ll need the new Senate to obstruct its program.
steve Labor will never win the Senate in its own right. A double dissolution would put their own senators and senators from the Coalition at risk and increase the number of independants’ and minor party senators which is why we haven’t had one since 1987.
It is all bad news for the Liberals though because oppositions quickly get the reputations of carping whingers who oppose just for opposition sake. You said earlier, Triton that you were getting tired of the “interminable fuel debate”, well how silly is it going to look when the opposition are prepared to debate this for months on end and achieve nothing for all their months of hot air. In the end the voting public will turf them out as being obstructionist vandals who are unable to let the country progress.
LTEP, I’d see a double dissolution as favouring the Government and minor parties. Losses would be largely on the conservative side.
Well, this censure motion is certainly a stark illustration of the interminability of the fuel debate. It’s still going.
The public will want a resolution and when it drags on for months when it could have been over in a couple of days that is when they will look at where the hold up is and come up with the answer the Tories could have passed it whenever they wanted to do so.
steve I think the highest number of senators Labor have ever won is 34 (in 1985, after the 1984 election). They’d need to win 39 to have a majority in their own right which is 5 more than they have ever got. I think it’s likely they’ll match or slightly edge up their record at the next election but it’s unlikely they’ll even get to 38, let alone 39.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/handbook/historical/representation.htm
594
steve
We just had a precedent that control of both houses can be deadly to the majority party.
I would not mind if Labor had to do negotiations and debate to get major bills through. Rather not have Labor just pushing Bills nilly willy through the Senate!!
WTF is Bronwyn Bishop wearing?
Steve, Rudd has said there won’t be an election until 2 1/2 yrs time. If there was a DD the opposition rabble would look like they’d had a win and would say Rudd couldn’t govern. That is why lLbs are desperately making so much noise now because they know their time is running out fast and come July they’ll have no power and won’t be able to get all hairy chested threatening to block everything that goes to the senate. They will be LAME DUCKS and how that hurts!
After June Fuel Watch will pass through the senate. I read somewhere that all minor parties will pass it so long as it dosen’t disadvantage motorists, which it wont.
here is a good balanced article that answers most questions people would be asking.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/fuel-for-thought-20080528-2j3c.html
The government might be doing well, winning all the debates on rational grounds and doing what is right and proper but part of the media is trying to paint the opposite picture.
Howard didn’t give these guys more generous media ownership laws before the last election for no reason. He knew these guys are mostly right wing and will run a right wing line – otherwise there is no way he would have given them more. Howard never did anything without a self interest reason being paramount, as Dr Hewson.
I had the opportunity to listen to and then watch Parliament the last few days. The government did quite well the opposition were terrible, but you would not know from the media.
Vera, good article but would the minor parties bother to just pass government Bills when the system gives them a huge advantage via the Double Dissolution process. I am not at all confident that they will necessarily not have one eye on improving their position at the expense of the conservatives.
The Government will need to be more precise in the questions it asks of the PS. No doubt there are some Howard lovers in their ranks all too willing to produce reports that counter whatever they think is advantageous to the government.
Might be time to shuffle them around and put the known Howard supporters into jobs that produce nothing for external consumption.
Steve at 464, poor Milne has apparently forgotten to look at the opinion polls for the past six months
Kina, as far as I’m concerned the Government has not ‘won the debate on all rational grounds’. I think the reason they’ve chosen the Fuel Watch scheme is because they want to be ’seen’ to be doing something about petrol prices, when in reality they have received advice from 4 separate departments which says the effect will be either negligible or could even send prices up (unlikely… but possible I’d imagine).
It’s still a better idea than cutting the excise though, which is stupid on so many grounds.
Apres at 522, my commiserations for you having to read the OO. Dont bother, no-one else does
I think it is dawning on the LNP and its concerned supporters that 6 months in and there is still no sign they can improve their position before the next election. In fact they are probably terrified given Rudd’s long term popularity that they might never be able to make significant inroads.
Hence the sudden flurry of anti-government activity in the media coordinated with the Nelson nonsense on the tivial issue of a fuel watch scheme and, alcopops. They are desperate to avoid total destruction at the next election.
These people are fighting to gaurd against being left with 20 seats in the house after the next election.
607 Andrew, Milne doesn’t have to read the opinion polls he is a political genius and strategist without peer as far as he is concerned. The day after the last Federal election he logged the prices of fuel, groceries and interest rates and mapped out a plan that once the budget was bought down Nelson would shoot ahead and stay there. The rest of the Murdoch press is following the advice of the guru and trying to make the Nelson ‘Budget Bounce theory according to Milne’ a self fulfilling prophecy.
It didn’t work last year when the Tories were in power and there is no evidence it will work for Milne or the Tories this year either.
Vera – that Tim Colebatch article is great.
LTEP – apparently the ACCC document that’s due out today made it a hands down decision in favour of fuel watch. Chris Bowen has been quite convincing on that. It’ll be an interesting read. There are so many flaws in the way the current data of averages is being presented that its’ a bit like talking about MOE errors being movement. Specific small results require specific data – it’s just not black and white enough for anyone to really know what is going on at present.
I think the WA experience is the clue though – if the consumers feel empowered that’s great, and if it raises the failings of the Australian car based culture along the way then I’m all for it.
Long term it may also reveal a bit more to the public about the way the oil industry might, or might not, be manipulating the market, which again gives the government triggers to act.
The main argument seems to be on two fronts – that prices will rise, or that the money is wasted. First the amount of money is chickenfeed in the budget and the potential rise? Let’s wait for the ACCC report.
This whole argument is along the same lines as the Medicare rebate – anyone remember that issue? We have a major entrenched industry arguing it’s point against the government through a third party – the opposition. If they they were sure they were on the moral high ground the oil industry could have been spending millions in fighting directly, but have instead tried an each way bet through the opposition.
Rudd alluded to it yesterday with the mention of big oil in Q-time. Everyone knows it, but no-one can say it.
People like Milne forget one thing, the present situation (leaks) and issues such as Fuelwatch, will not be part of the next election campaign. Hell, Nelson himself may very well not be in his present guise. To talk about a one term government now is pure folly mixed up with a very Liberal (pun intended) dose of bias.
If the Libs do not get some substantial bounce in the next round or two of polls Nelson will be done for.
612 Onimod. Is this the ACCC document that you were looking for?
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/806216
Putting aside the predictable excitement in the conservative media and opposition, I dont think Rudd has played this issue well. It was stupid to say he had done all he could, even if it was twisted, and not retract it later. The FuelWatch issue is a fraught one, but he hasnt convincingly made the case.
I wont worry though, he is miles ahead, and these sorts of bumps are part of the game. And if it keeps Nelson around longer, it has all been worth it!
If this quote from chapter 15 doesn’t support Fuelwatch then I don’t know what will.
“Enhanced price transparency is more likely to benefit consumers the more it is aimed at improving buyer information and options relative to seller information and options.
The main evidence of price transparency for petrol consumers in Australia appears to be the prevalence of large headboard signage with each retailer proclaiming their current price. However, the existence of petrol price volatility and weekly cycles makes this prominent signage less of a sign of transparency than it would be in markets with more stable prices.
This volatility makes it difficult to know how the signboard price will compare with other retailers in the area, or how it will compare with the same retailer later that day or week.
Comparative current price level information is more important due to the high price volatility and is much more difficult for the consumer to get.”
This bit from Chapter fifteen is what Rudd was on about earlier in the week.
“The main finding from this econometric analysis is that the average of the price margin reduced by a statistically significant amount for Perth relative to the eastern capitals in the time since the introduction of FuelWatch. The relevant weekly average price margin was around 1.9 cpl less on average for the
period from January 2001 to June 2007 than for the period from August 1998 to December 2000.”
The censure debate is over.
The media will have their collective eyes fixed firmly on the Liberal leadership well before the next election. Nothing loses votes more than inhouse fighting for the leader’s job.
Anyone noticed the latest Sky Noos poll? The Libs are working overtime.
Steve 605
I don’t know if the Minor parties & Independants would risk going the same way as the Democrats. When they cosied up to Howard and passed the GST they cut their own throats. Would the minor parties be happy to be seen as having the desire to bring down a labor government and return the libs?
Imagine the add campaigne Labor would launch against minor parties. Stuff like budget blow out funding election causing inflation to rise, and the end of all Labors health, education and nation building plans. 7 months worjk wasted. They would also be accused of being in bed with the coalition and risking the return of workchoices.
615 steve
No.
http://news.theage.com.au/national/accc-to-release-modelling-on-fuelwatch-20080529-2j6l.html
new information only cabinet has been privy to thus far.
It’s presumably the same information Bowen offered briefings to in Q-time yesterday that the opposition wasn’t interested in…
gary
sky polls the day before election had Libs winning and Ratty miles ahead of Kev as preferred PM LOL
If Nelson and the LNP don’t get a tangible poll bounce out of these series of free gifts from murdoch and co then they should rename themselves the vasectomy party.
My argument exactly vera which makes them more likely to actually act in favour of causing a Double dissolution which in all probability makes them get more members in the senate at the double dissolution as they too would attack the conservatives once the Double Dissolution was called, as this is the most likely place for votes to come from for them.
622 Onimod, I do believe that the modelling is the subject of chapter 15. Might not be but sounds like it to me.
Could it all be a cunning stunt by Kev to get Labor’s fuel watch back on the front page?
think about it, all last week msm were full of Brenas’s 5c cut, (trying to get his PPM rating out of single digits) Fuel watch was getting no air.
Now that the attention is back on it Kev gets to release the ACCI modelling which will get airplay in prime time news! And also will show up the opposition’s lies.
It’s no stunt. They just need to counter the leaks in some way.
627 vera
Does it have to make tonight’s news, or is it better to deliver a weekend blitz?
I think failing to end the week with a bang would be a mistake.
LTEP
I’m not so sure – why is the main argument still under wraps?
Sure – it’s not going exactly to plan, but planning for perfection is folly anyway.
Onimod, I’m sure that as both sides aware that Newspoll will be taken this weekend there will be plenty of shock and horror stories generated tomorrow for the weekend papers.
onimod
dunno? how about a bit of airplay on the news AND a blitz.
626 Steve
Bowen talks about it at the start of the transcript from Lateline last night:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s2258351.htm
There’s the original modelling and then there was further work as I understand it. Chris Bowen has nailed all of his Cabinet colleagues to the wall and no-one has said boo thus far (unless you think the leaker was a minister).
Just their general demeanour suggest that they’re happy to let him run with this one. It stinks of holding back the ace to me.
I really don’t believe this will do any long term damage as long as they can fix the leaks. Better for all of this to happen now rather than in 2 1/2 year’s time.
Dennis has really shown us his true colours, as if we didn’t already know. The term “over the top” springs to mind.
The one thing that keeps going through my mind is how little effect the MSM had on the last election result. Also why would people turn on a government that firstly is prepared to do something about petrol and secondly wants to make the petrol situation more open and transparent?
Kevin Andrews in the Chair? That’s a new one to me. I wonder if they can persuade the honourable member for Higgins or Mayo to have a go.
Mike Steketee makes sense
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mikesteketee/index.php/theaustralian/comments/green_road_all_but_ignored/
Steketee and Megalogenis about the only decent journalists the Oz has got.
The MSM had little effect on Rudd Labor prior to the election because the population had already switched off to Howard and were looking for or were happy to have a change.
The LNP horrible polls so far have been a reflection of their total invisibility and lack of credibility in opposition to Rudd doing all the things he had promised. They are making a lot of noise at the moment, useless noise but noise all the same and, the MSM is doing everything it can to make it seem they are doing well and Rudd badly. Thus some soft voters might come back to the fold simply because they seem to be some sort of opposition now even though the matters are minor ones.
The interesting question for me is what will be the value of incumbency to Labor at the next election. We saw Howard get a swing back to him closer to the election and maybe people a bit nervous about changing from what they knew.
Surely the LNP will need to get Labor down below their election result if incumbency means a little swing back to the government at the last moment.
637 Kina – nothing stays the same over 2 1/2 years. There will be swings and roundabouts.
I notice with interest that Sam Newman is on the front of the Herald Sun and nothing else.
Rudd has many strings to pluck yet. If he plucks the right ones (I’m confident he will) he is home and hosed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/29/2259298.htm
Looks like Rudd has called the elephant to come out from behind the curtain:
From the linked article:
At a press conference, Mr Rudd said the debate on petrol was a global one.
He said the Government always knew and accepted that the issue of fuel prices would be a contentious debate.
“We fully embrace the difference of opinion within the Government,” Mr Rudd said.
“We believe in having the debate, resolving it and getting on with the business.
“There is a clear choice. Either you vote for the consumer or you vote for a cosy deal with big oil companies.”
He said he was absolutely confident that no one within the Cabinet had been the source of yesterday’s leak.
The very fact that opposition questions are about Fuel and the Government dixers are about fuel prove that the Government is in control. They would be asking dixers about anything but fuel if the Murdoch press fantasy was true.
On the fuel issue, I thought that the best article in today’s paper was by Kenneth Davidson in The Age
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/fuel-price-debate-ignores-real-issue-20080528-2j2h.html
Rightly, this article is not flattering to either Labor or Liberal. It also gives the lie to the complaints about hurting families from fuel prices. No doubt some are, but Davidson shows that it is all quite exaggerated. As I have previously said, the budget was good overall but transport reform was the area I was most dissappointed in. I have no objection to Fuelwatch but in the end it makes little more difference than the 5 cent tax cut nonsense. Thus on this issue I’d give Nelson 1 out of 10, Swan 5 out of 10 and Rudd 3 out of 10 (for the stupid GST fuel suggestion). None of the policies stated to date will solve the problem.
Nice comeback by Rudd. Nelson asked him if he would rule out a cut in fuel excise. Rudd asked Nelson if he would rule in a cut.
642 indeed – good article
Hahaha – J Bishop just got her own arse handed to her.
She prance around like a royal corgie and Swan sat her down with a one word answer – “yes”.
My other half refers to her a s a ‘clothes horse’.
Ah – Nicola Roxon has just tied fuel and alcopops together and pointed out how the opposition is just toeing the established industry line on both issues.
The government needs to push cars as fuel efficient this…………… Peugeot has claimed two new fuel economy world records set here in Australia according to the Guinness Book of World Records after one of its production cars completed a lap of the country on less than eight re-fills of fuel.
The car was a standard 307 HDI turbo-diesel wagon driven by fuel economy expert John Taylor who averaged an amazing 3.49 litres per 100 kilometres (or 81.16 mpg) over the 14,634 kilometre journey at a total fuel cost of $540.53.Here is the link to the story…http://motormouth.com.au/myresources/alternatefuelsarticle.aspx?article=200406_record
I don’t work or have any association with Peugeot, it’s just an example of what is out there.Now if govts…State and Federal offer incentives,tax breaks, cheaper rego etc for the populace to buy these sorts of cars then the sting in the rise of oil is lessened.
For me the telling line from the article is………………”after he drove from Melbourne to Rockhampton on a single tank of diesel in a showroom-spec 406 family sedan in 2002 over a distance of 2348 kilometres using less than 70 litres.”
These are the sorts of mileage figures that should be mandatory for family cars.I know Mr Rudd proposed a $500M scheme for car manufacturers in Australia for the Research and development for hybrids……It may need a partnership between govt and industry to make it happen ssoner rather than later.
At a press conference, Mr Rudd said the debate on petrol was a global one.
snip
“There is a clear choice. Either you vote for the consumer or you vote for a cosy deal with big oil companies.”
Earlier today I heard ACCC boss Graeme Samuel saying that the oil companies and Coles and Woolies are dead against Fuelwatch and will do everything they can to stop it. Which could be a very big stick to beat the opposition with by painting them as tools of the vested interests. Wonder if Rudd was thinking the same thing when he saying the above?
Possum has done some analysis of the results of the fuel watch system in WA and has some nice graphs up which the Opposition would find slightly embarrassing in relation to their current position on this matter.
http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/
#645 onimod
Yes, that was nicely done. I’ve been a Roxon fan, if I can put it that way, since the horrible beating she gave Tony Abbott over his no-show during the campaign.
Turnbull comes in with a smart alec question “If the PM lacks confidence in departmental advice why appoint Ken Henry as head of the tax review.” Rudd’s reply was to quote Costello, when he was treasurer, as saying the ACCC new more than any other agency re petrol. Beautiful.
onimod
here’s a picture of Julie (mad cow)Bishop for you
http://ambushadventuresports.com/madcow/madcow2.gif
Hahhahah Dutton just asks a minister to release a cabinet document. He obviously didn’t study politics at high school
Showson, that would have to be the silliest question ever asked in the Parliament this year. He obviously has no idea as to why stupid questions are detrimental to the opposition cause on every level.
Socrates @ 642 Thanks for linking Kenneth Davidson’s article. It is the people on the fringes of our major cities who need better public transport options. Mr. Rudd and his government can play a part in that but we need more effort and foresight at state government level.
Now the Queensland Liberal leader Mark McArdle has contadicted the Federal Liberal position on Fuelwatch.
654 David – spot on and they need to get to work on it.
The opposition has no idea how to hprase a question and they don’t really know what they’re trying to uncover. All of their questions are delivered on the assumption they know what the answer is but don’t expect that answer is going to be voiced. What is the point? They are getting more and more detailed and further away from a question that sums up their arguments.
It gives every impression of a recently beheaded chook being in charge.
Tuckey’s removal is being dealt with now. No further action to be taken for his outburst yesterday.
Albanese has just had a massive laugh at the opposition as the mover of a proposed amendment has not bothered to be in the house.
Headless chooks. Unbelievable.
An opposition MPI has lapsed in the House due to the absence of its
sponsor. It’d be funny if… well it *is* funny.
Onimond, it was actually a major debate called ‘A Matter of Public Importance’. It is the job of the whip to ensure that members are in the house when needed. It is the first time in my life I have seen a MPA lapse because the member who proposed the MPA absented himself from the house. The Opposition has no idea.
What a tame QT. The Libs had all the ammunition in the world and fired off none. Even following question time they couldn’t get ther act together. One of their members was to speak on the governments failure to act on governments advice. This member had left the chamber so this discussion failed to get off the ground. The last member seen leaving the parliament with his tail between his legs was Hockey.
MPI -of course.
Now the member for Groom was caught napping.
Maybe the Opposition whips are asleep.
Poor old Brenda all puffed up and ready for his MPI rant and the member for Stirling forgets to be in the house.
I bet Keenan is getting a bollocking already – or maybe he has already run away back home.
Ha HA ha. Pathetic,
David Charles 654
Agreed but the Federal funding rules for AusLink are a large part of the problem. They not only tie the Federal money to urban freeways (none for urban PT) but by requiring matching State spending they effectively tie the State money up too. Thus there are only two States doing anythign serious about PT capacity – the ones with spare cash via mining royalties, Qld and WA. SA and VIC are at least trying to maintin or marginally upgrade their systems with the (limited) budgets they have. I won’t pretend to defend Sydney rail, which IMO is a national disgrace.
The Government was going to gag it anyway. But still, it kind of looks bad when you don’t bother turning up.
I laughed out loud when Swan mentioned today that Turnball hadn’t even read the ACCC report he was trashing – LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Have pity on the opposition whip. His job would be like herding
cats (a clutter of cats, perhaps, or mayme a nuisance of cats).
Maybe the Hon Member for Stirling thought better and went home LOL
Queensland has been disadvantaged by Auslink funding under the Howard government who would only fund about 40% and leave the states to finance the rest. It needs to get back to a 50/50 funding arrangement.
Fair enough. A bit less humorous then.
What a rabble they are. This was meant to be Brenda’s big day, and his lot blew it! I’d say a clear points win to Rudd/Swan/Bowen!
Shanahan and the Poisoned Dwarf won’t be happy!
668 Probably caught the flight home with Ironbar Tuckey.
ShowsOn
The Govt does not gag MPIs. Occasionally previous speakers have allowed the MPI debate to be on a subject proposed by the Govt. but it is never gagged.
The disgraceful heckling and jeering: obviously civility was never taught at the tory bullies’ private schools.
I think Rudd has handled this leak well over the day. Saying the ACCC are an important part of the Treasurer’s department brings it into context. The leak needs fixing though.
Steve: Michael Keenan and Wilson Tuckey, that’s some twosome.
It makes you wonder what other thing could leak out.
Well parliament is only sitting till 5.00pm. What time did the flight to Perth leave.
Rx: The Libs have this born to rule mentality, it must be surely a mistake that they have to be in opposition LOL
Gary: Am I correct Rudd left a lot of the previous public service mandarins in their jobs? There’s bound to be more than one Liberal in there, who wants to prop up Nelson.
Well, it wasn’t going to go ahead. Albanese said so just before the start of Question Time. He said that it could happen after the Government introduced ~15 bills. By the time that happens the adjournment debate would have to start.
Steve: I’m guessing all the WA MPs would be on the same flight, Liberal & Labor.
682 Only if the Liberals don’t fall asleep and fail to show up on time.
Progressive@680
Yes you’re right. I said at the time he should’ve axed a lot of them and that if he didn’t he was risking leaks. It was and is stupid to allow obvious party stooges to remain as department heads.
The reasoning behind Rudd’s decision to leave many of the ex-Howard staffers in their positions is apparently that he will keep them so busy they won’t have time to help out the Liebrals.
Rx – If that is as good as it gets when the Liberals have been helped out with leaks, then God help them if the leaking stops.
LTEP: Good to see you back on the board!
Yeah, I’m far more interested in who is doing the leaking than the endless argument about the merits or otherwise of Fuelwatch!
Steve: My good mate, we can laugh about WA Liberals, but remember that there are far more of em than Labor MPs(only 4 in the HOR). One would expect the balance is redressed in 2010/2011
Steve, since they have fired all their ammo on the first day, all they have left now is bluster – they have plenty of that, the bigmouth bullies – and faux concern for people “doing it tough” (Let them eat cake).
PROPOSED DISCUSSION OF MATTER OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE—FUELWATCH
The House was informed that Mr Keenan, 3:27:05 PM, had proposed that a definite matter of public importance be submitted to the House for discussion, namely, “The failure of the Government to heed departmental advice with regard to Fuelwatch”.
The proposed discussion having received the necessary support—
Due to the absence of the proposer, the matter lapsed.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/info/liveminutes/index.htm
If Keenan had been in Parliament the MPI would have gone ahead. If Albanese had tried to stop the MPI the Libs would be screaming blue murder. Did you see the steam coming out of Brenda’s ears? If there was not going to be an MPI he would have already left the chamber.
Progressive, the federal Fiberals would have to feel pretty exposed on FuelWatch about now. Given that the scheme was introduced by a a WA Liberal government and is now being defended by the leader of the Qld Libs. LOL
ACCC issues details of further fuelwatch econometric analysis:
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/829429/fromItemId/142
quotes:
Further econometric tests undertaken
The ACCC also undertook further econometric analysis to take account of price effects on different days of the week. In particular the ACCC wanted to check that consumer who benefit from the price cycle by buying on the lowest price day each week would not be harmed by the introduction of the Fuelwatch system.
The ACCC looked at price changes for the lowest price day of the week, the highest price day of the week and for the remaining five days of the week. The ACCC’s analysis showed that:
* prices decreased an average of 3.5cpl for the highest price day of the week and
* prices decreased an average of 0.7 cpl for the lowest price day of the week and
* prices decreased an average of 1.8 cpl for the remaining middle five days of the week.
This analysis confirmed that the overall price reductions indicated by the inquiry analysis were not isolated to certain times of the week.
Conclusion
The purpose of this econometric analysis has been to satisfy the ACCC that the introduction of a Fuelwatch scheme nationally would not, based on the experience in Western Australia, lead to consumers paying higher prices for petrol.
From the econometric analysis, on a conservative basis, the ACCC can say that there is no evidence that the introduction of Fuelwatch in Western Australia led to any increase in prices and it appears to have resulted in a small price decrease overall.
659 steve
thanks – my ears only pricked up when i head Albanese’s huge laugh.
if you turned up to an occasion you’d know wether he was present or not within seconds.
I said last night that the was either born to be a whip or a deputy principle.
Turnbull on Agenda about the ACCC modelling:
“Where’s the Excel spreadsheet?”!
heh!
Mal might know how to make a buck, but he knows three fifths of five eights of sweet f*ck all about economics if he thinks anything like this is done in an Excel spreadsheet.
Possum, he’d probably get that calculation wrong as well …
693
Don’t tell me he’s going to insinuate that the ACCC has made it up?
Seriously.
I just can’t imagine being a patient of that guy.
On making a buck – I think I’ve said it here before – I have relative who makes a good buck in Mal’s former business who I doubt can even tie his own shoes.
695
err – patient – I meant Nelson
Allbull – I don’t know what he’s good for either – perhaps cruise ship captain?
Does Morgan take in Thursdays?
Swan says leaks will be investigated.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23773544-953,00.html
Sometimes Gary
699 Possum Comitatus – Thanks Possum
I didn’t watch Agenda but I bet they’ve written off the government already.
My daughter was in Canberra today as part of her school “camp”. The itinerary
included a stop over during question time. So, in the off chance that the cameras
swung past the public gallery, I recorded he session. (All this to mitigate the
charge that I’m a sad git.)
Having looked at the start of question time, I can confirm that ShowsOn @ 665
was correct and that Anthony Albanese did say “the MPI, to give notice, won’t be proceeded with”.
I guess Nelson and his column were gathering to “scream blue murder” before being
scuppered by (self-inflicted) events.
If thats the case I apologise to ShowsOn.
But it means that the Libs agreed to scupper the MPI. Why?
702 So they could go home early, ruawake.
My understanding is that an MPI can be gagged by the House. Generally, though,
the wording of the MPI is phrased so that such an action would be seen as
strange.
In fact:
(from http://www.aph.gov.au/house/pubs/gtp/text/GTP_ch16.htm)
So, such a motion may be the first thing done after the MPI begins, and there
is nothing the opposition can do about it.
Flaneur
You are correct but an MPI is one of the rare opportunities that an opposition gets to make a point. It is very, very, very rare that they are gagged.
So the Libs must have agreed to forego the opportunity, maybe that is why they had the censure this morning.
But it is dumb politics in my book.
Eh? She was probably just passing on a message from someone in her electorate to Ms Mirabella, but still…
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23777864-29277,00.html
the whole article:
A LABOR backbencher has withdrawn comments she allegedly made to a pregnant Liberal MP, who says she was told her unborn child would turn into a demon.
Victorian MP Sophie Mirabella, who is 34 weeks pregnant, yesterday accused NSW Labor MP Belinda Neal of saying to her that “evil thoughts will turn your child into a demon”.
Parliament’s official record, Hansard, shows Ms Neal twice denied making the comment, but this morning she told the House of Representatives she was “unreservedly” withdrawing any remarks that may have caused offence to Ms Mirabella.
The comment was an insult to all Australians, Ms Mirabella said.
“Ms Neal’s fitness to be a member of the national parliament needs to be questioned and the Labor party should send her off for some serious counselling and professional help,” Ms Mirabella said after Ms Neal withdrew her remarks.
“Ms Mirabella’s fitness to be a member of the national parliament needs to be questioned and the Liberal party should send her off for some serious counselling and professional help”.
Surely Belinda was only stating obvious biblical truths? Maybe Tony Abbott can help her out.
It is possible, but the response to Albanese’s statement that the MPI
wouldn’t be proceeded with from the opposition benches, plus the
gathering of Opposition MPs after Question Time gives me pause.
I’d imagine the Opposition and their MSM mates would have had a
field day with the Government’s “flouting” of Parliament, and I think
that was what they (the Opposition) were trying to set up.
The Government reserved their right to gag the MPI since the first 3 hours of the day was spent debating the censure motion. If the opposition let Government business proceeded in the morning, then the Government would’ve allowed the MPI debate in the afternoon.
It’s essentially a convention that the opposition can’t have a censure motion and an MPI on the same day. Fair enough I think, I mean the parliament has a bit of legislating to do.
I posted earlier on reported plans to introduce compressed natural gas (CNG) compatible passenger vehicles in Australia. Here is an excellent link to explain the benefits of this fuel which we are presently ‘giving’ away to China. Why are we so far behind?
http://rosettamoon.copley.org.au/?p=138
Peter Martin on fuelwatch:
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/05/did-western-australias-relative-fuel.html
711 A big gas deal was announced in Brisbane today too.
“Gladstone will become one of the world’s largest liquified natural gas export centres by 2014 after resources giant Santos today announced it had signed a partner to a $7.7 billion world-first project to convert coal seam gas to liquified natural gas (LNG).
Coal seam gas will be piped via a 450 kilometre pipeline from gas fields near Roma and Injune to Gladstone, where it will be chilled and liquified for export on Curtis Island in Gladstone Harbour.
Santos has announced Malaysia’s national oil company Petronas, with assets of $50 billion, will take a 40 per cent stake in the project.
Petronas is the largest liquified natural gas producer in Asia and the world’s third-largest LNG producer in the world.
Santos’ Acting CEO David Knox said the project could become as big as the North West Shelf gas project off the shore of Western Australia.”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/historic-77b-qld-gas-project/2008/05/29/1211654206589.html
Why would a news service put on Rudd asking if the papers he had were in site of the cameras? How is that news or is it just sh.t stirring? Want to guess which channel?
“The comment was an insult to all Australians, Ms Mirabella said.”
Only to those with devil children. Why is it an insult to all Australians? Is Sophie’s baby of much interest to the rest of Australia? Is her baby going to “the one”? Did I miss that memo?
Basil Fawlty @ 711 – Ford were building natural gas powered Falcons for taxis back in the late 1990s. Don’t know if they still do.
In the U.S. you can buy new cars off the showroom floor that will run on petrol, alcohol and natural gas, so there’s no reason Ford and GMH couldn’t do that here within weeks if there was a demand. It probably only needs is a push from the government.
Also all Ford cars sold in some European countries are dual petrol+natural gas. They have to import the NG. We have it in abundance literally on 80% of the population’s doorstep and all the talk is about saving, at most, 5 cents/litre on petrol. Sigh
Wonder how many cars could be converted each year for the $2 billion Nelson’s cut in excise would cost?
Nobody Knows News Like ……. Mark Reilly”
Correct Frank. Was he a member of the Libs?
Have no idea, though he’s been cheering for the libs since Rudd got elected.
He’s not alone. I must say though I think Oakes gives it to both sides. Reilly is just so one sided.
Inside tip it is “strongly thought” that the Cabinet leak was from Resources and Energy. Ian McFarlane’s old stomping ground.
Expect a few resignations for “family reasons” as the remaining Greenhouse Mafia are finally put out to pasture.
If I was Rudd I’d be cleaning the bloody lot out in that department.
MayoFeral, sigh indeed, it appears that CNG is also vastly less polluting and greenhouse effect inducing. And we boast about these ‘deals’ where we give our valuable resources to other countries, all the while these morons in the liberal party
rant about a bloody useless 5 cents.
It appears that the Federal Police are not going to investigate the cabinet leak. Probably a good thing as I don’t recall them having too much success in tracing leaks in the past. Better to put the time and effort into getting the process working I think.
“The Australian Federal Police has not yet been asked to investigate either leak, AFP Commissioner Mick Keelty said.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23778511-5014046,00.html
Isn’t it odd that that the leaks started after the news that there was basically no chance of a public service pay rise in next 3 years? Not the way to get people on side or to recuit talent.
Hmm, but ABC Online say there are investigating.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/29/2259697.htm
The Public Service was offsided badly when Rudd was Chief of Staff to the Queensland Goss government too. It could be a bit of a Rudd blindspot, BSF.
726 Who leaked that story to the ABC, Frank?
I only read the Australian online for the cartoons (honest) but I inadvertantly clicked on Shanahan’s latest literary deposit there.
I did’t know whether to laugh or cry. The man has a serious problem, and it is consuming him. Such irrational hatred is abnormal and unnatural and goes well beyond political opposition. It is Mugabe like in its intensity and its dissociation with reality.
Please someone, do something. For his sake.
Cabinet documents are secret squirrel classified stuff, they may look identical to the average reader but there are subtle changes in line spacing, pagination etc.
If the AFP can get a hard copy of the leaked document they can easily trace it to a single section of a Govt Dept.
But as I said before, PM&C already know the who, when, what, where.
Steve @ 728 it was leaked to chn 9 Laurie Oakes (not ABC)
And I’m also thinking the usual suspects of the Lib leaks aren’t there (ie the OO and others) – when does Oakes get a scoop??? And by whom?
“But as I said before, PM&C already know the who, when, what, where.
”
And why!
So Gerard McManus declares in the Herald Scum that “the honeymoon is over” for Rudd. These guys dont even need opinion polls to twist any more, they can just declare it. Given this is the fifth or sixth time that they’ve declared it, I’m happy to ignore their opinions
Cille
The original Ferguson leak was direct to the Liberal Party – they asked questions based on the leak the day before The Australian published.
Well at least Oakes has confirmed that it was not leaked by a minister. That means it would have to be a pretty high level public servant that did it.
732
Cille, I heard Laurie Oakes confirm on PM that it wasn’t a Minister who had leaked, ergo, it’s the public service. There was then some discussion from a rep. from the public service union, that there was possibly some disgruntlement around that they were working hard to provide advice as requested, and then, it wasn’t taken, or that the person felt so strongly about the “rightness” of their advice, they should prevail, rather than the government. He wasn’t saying it was advised, just that it might be motivation. Then Rudd was on saying that if the public service was protesting about how hard they had to work, they’d better get used to it. Then Swan saying it was the job of the public service to provide advice, but it was the job of the government to consider that advice and come to a decision about the policy, including debating the advice proffered. Personally, I think someone in the public service is trying to help the Opposition. No evidence for this, just my normal paranoia.
ruwakake – thanks for the info, but there is no way Martin would have leaked in a bucket – I used to work at the ACTU (albeit as a very minor underliing secretatial position) when he was assistant secretary to Bill Kelty – I have great faith in Martin
734
Andrew, it’s called wishful thinking.
I suspect the list of suspects for the leak is already pretty short.
Asking the AFP to go looking is a complete joke – they couldn’t find a leak in a sieve and it’ll probably cost about $8M and take 12 months or so. It would be interesting to find out who has been put in charge of the investigation.
I’m sure there’s plenty who want to give Keelty a shove – this might be their chance.
Cille
Sorry if you thought I was saying that Martin Ferguson was the source of the leak. Of course he was not.
He has taken over a Dept. well known for promoting “Big Resource Companies” and Rudd has been stupid in not cleaning out the politicised PS left over from the Howard years.
As I said expect some PS retirements shortly
ruawake – no probs – I just got a bit riled I guess and caught up. You’re right tho about the PS – we need a clearing house now
Didn’t Howard have more AFP searching out leakers than t*rr$ists?
741
Ruawake, I reckon the Ruddster has a much smarter tactic than Keating’s night of the long knives. He’ll just work whatever bastard did the leaking into an early grave, or stick ‘em in a room far away from power, where they’ll go psychotic from lack of sensory stimulation. Just my sick revenge fantasy. But, it’s all just so interesting really. Honeymoon may be over, and engagement begun. Frankly, I still reckon the gov’t is a work in progress, but on all fronts, well, excepting the stupidity from Belinda Neal, demonstrating increased confidence and competence. Stupid predictions from the likes of Gerald Henderson, notwithstanding.
Did anyone catch John Clarke and Brian Dawe on the 7.30 Report? This was very, very funny.
742 Cille
I don’t believe it will be a clearing house so much as the slow burn.
I’ve already posted here before about how I think that the LP has brought up a generation of poor decision makers under Howard through lack of practice. There’s no way the current shadow front bench will be a good government even if given the opportunity.
The top level of the PS will not be much different. It will be much better if the tier below the top in the PS force the dead wood out rather than create a vacuum. Clearing means that someone has to chose the successors, and sometimes that is obvious, but it’s much better for them, and their future subordinates, if they emerge rather than be anointed. Whoever was advising Rudd on the 2020 summit will know this and presumably was consulted. I know for a fact that there are larger cultural movements going on behind the scenes – Rudd has already made specific moves to put things in to play, but they may not emerge for some time.
So the only thing Rudd can do in this process is just keep turning up the wick. The motivated and the committed will survive while the dead wood will find it intolerable. In the short term you’ll find underlings to the department heads being invited to present to the ministers, and that’s really the sign to those at the top that their time is up. Some will fight to hold on and this can sometimes take years, but they will be sitting in an office watching the leaves change colour – it’s soul destroying stuff. Meanwhile the pace will lift, and with a little bit of planning the PS will be running at a pace that will just blow the mind of the next conservative government.
Harry @ 737- thanks for that -and Snapper just for fun – I don’t know if you remember this but don’t the libs remind you of the thunderbirds http://puppetbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/thunderbirds.jpg
What i do like is Rudds’ attitude towards the bureaucracy, put simply they don’t make the decisions the government does, and if they don’t like it then they should pull their head in or join a party and try to get democratically elected.
And for Oakes to justify it, sorry as usual Laurie doesn’t give a stuff about process just news but i suppose it is his job.
onimod says
“know for a fact that there are larger cultural movements going on behind the scenes”- Rudd has already made specific moves to put things in to play, but they may not emerge for some time”
Hey Onimod I’m probalbly on your side, but what are these cultural movements going behind the scenes?
I think it’s been a good day for the only professional party in the ACT, led by the PM.
If anybody with half a brain cell still thinks fuelwatch is bad for consumers, I suggest they grab a replay of tonights 7.30 Report. Game over!
What about the former media spokesman for Dubya saying that the war in Iraq was unnecessary and based on lies to sell it to the people? Dubya is f*ck*d if his conservative religious beliefs are legit when he dies!
FUTURE PREDICTION:
The media to turn on the uselessness of both Nelson and Turnbull, and throw their support behind Cossie as leader and Downer as shadow treasurer, well before the next election. You read it here first. So says Centre.
I’ve yet to see Gerard McManus write anything positive about Rudd. I’ve got his e-mail address at the Hun, I think he needs a blast. He usually replies too.
Centre is a bit pissed off I’d say
Seems there is some problem with budget proposals in the Solar Industry according to the Curious Snail.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23778431-5003402,00.html
I think the opposition is losing the argument for one important reason. Once Fuel Watch comes in, does anyone honestly think the Liberals will go to the next election promising to repeal it?
Centre, for my own fury can I say I would have to write a book on the media – any takers? of headlines versus reality?? yeah ritght
Or will the WA Liberals promise to do it at the upcoming State Election – considering they introduced it at the start of this decade
I just wish the media could be somehow held to account.
752,
Over what?
Centre @ 758 Sorry, sorry – misconstrued exuberance with pissofidness
Here’s the 7.30 report transcript:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2259726.htm
From the 7.30 Report transcript.
DAVID MOIR: I think it’s very unfortunate that FuelWatch has become a political football. FuelWatch is a very valuable consumer information tool, and it would be a shame that the political connotations that have been attached it to mean that it isn’t trialled in other states, because based on its success here in WA, we believe it would be of benefit to consumers throughout Australia.
Anyone watching Q&A?
It’s gone to the dogs in episode 2.
As I suspected the power of last week came from Rudd, not the format, and certainly not Tony Jones.
This show has about as much political awareness as a cup of dirt.
Gary the media regulations should be changed, hence they should be forced to apologise for mistakes on front pages and if not fined substantially.. But who is the communications minister yes who the dopey Steven Conroy.
Onimod: I’m giving Q&A a miss this week, I can’t stomach a whole hour of the Mad Monk Abbott.
Yep onimod, I’m watching QandA.
So far the best line has been “sshhhh” by Tony Abbott to the audience. Comedy gold.
Tanya is in good form too. The other three are a waste of space so far.
A little quick maths. Barrel of oil (TAPIS) is about $135 USD. Exchange rate is at .96 USD/AUD. So its about $140 AUD a barrel.
Petrol is at $1.65 a litre or so. 42 cents is excise (and GST on the excise). So that is $1.23 without excise.
Take off a profit margin for both the retailer and oil refinery, delivery cost, and refinery cost as state tax. So that I reckon would be a minimum of 23 cents. (This could be seriously wrong however, I’ll do a little research later)
So about a buck for a litre of petrol still in a barrel of crude oil.
100/140 gives 0.71. So for every rise in the oil price, there is going an increase of about 0.71 cents in the petrol price.
So provided no change in other costs or the exchange rate, $200 USD a barrel oil is going to result in petrol at about $2.07 / litre and $300 USD a barrel oil is going to work out to be $2.78 / litre.
(Of course there is a GST which is adding 10% to the price but that is not going to change so I left in on top of everything).
hehehe…
I’m loving the Mad Monk’s facial expressions during the Bill Henson question. His eyes to the heavens asking for help while he’s surrounded by all these lefties.
But yes, last week was much more compelling with the Ruddster on (although I must admit I am rather fond of Tanya who always speaks eloquently).
All these lefties- Warren Mundine, he is New South Wales Right.
749 Cille
I have heard of one particular story from a reliable source where in the early days Rudd met with department heads who were asked to give a ‘blue sky’ presentation of their area of work – ie – if all their dreams came true, what would they like to see happen. Rudd’s dreams were bigger than some of the presenters.
The 2020 experience was the big clue to me that deeper things are at work.
The comment of the night- just happened well stated Bob Brown, Rudd said the photos by Henson were revolting but children locked up in Woomera well no comments were ever made by Rudd or Abbott. Just perfect.
Q+A
Politicians discussing art is like asking an forklift truck driver to discuss quantum mechanics.
This is embarrassing and extremely hard to watch.
Yes marky marky @ 768, but Warren is still left of Tony Abbott!
Now we’ve got “Bob! Bob!” in the audience in his wacky hat telling Bob Brown not to rail on Howard. Good stuff.
763 marky – I agree with you totally.
The big and visionary issues- Camden school next. The mindsight of this country. What next. Simple answer no schools made up of religious dominations, all schools should be secular.
And according to the Shell website, the basic cost of petrol is 95 cents a litre. That works to 0.68 cents per USD rise in oil. So in fact a $200 USD barrel of oil means $2.05 per a litre and $300 a barrel oil means $2.72 per a litre. Which is very close to my original calculation.
Camden was a classic. The area is in a local recession and along comes the biggest building project in the years and they reject it. Big brains in that area.
If it’s in a liberal seat, then it’s a no brainer why they rejected it
i was going to give QU@A a miss untill it looked like the mad monk was having a sort of a fit before the shhh and then Tanya put him back in his box, she’s damn good and to add to it she looks so innocent as she goes into the cut and thrust—until she opens her mouth, the female lib MPs could learn a lot from her.
777 – Yeah, it is Liberal seat; Macarthur. Pat Farmer is the member.
As oil is running out we should be trying to save it by putting in place good public transport, scrapping the fringe benefits tax concession on cars which costs 2 billion dollars, scrapping the GST on public transport, but we must do so only on petrol (stupid) and encouraging greater measures to stop us depleting it.
Oil is needed in everything we do, it makes our clothes, helps food production and is somewhat a necessity but we are doing little to save it.
We are entering an area of serious concern hence climate change, water shortages thus in the future only our capital cities will have water but rural areas will not. It requires strong leadership at present their is none in evidence as we are heading into a period of high inflation, recession, high unemployment and declining living standards.
I had a quick look at the 7:30 report transcript. It doesn’t yet seem to include an interview with a representative of the RAC in WA wqho was complimentary of the fuek watch scheme.
What do you think the headline in todays Worst Australian says – FUEL WATCH IS A DUD SAY RAC BUREAUCRATS.
Much of the critisism of fuel watch comes from fuel retailers and subsequently their spokes persons, the fiberal party.
Crazy hat guy was good value. Tanya is a very good performer.
Abbott is a twit, but damn I find him funny sometimes. He can be quite the comic wingnut.
But overall that show was a bit of a fizzer. (Loved Julia Gillard’s comment in the closing credits: “Go on, ask the question, they’d have to be better than Tony’s”. Love it!)
area= era
The fact is the RAC BUREAUCRATS are just going to have to get used to it.
780 – Bit hard to make stuff out of gasoline. Sure we probably should stop cracking the bigger alkanes, but the lighter stuff is a bit harder to combine into more useful items. Plus it takes more energy.
And note that the story didn’t make the online version, only the Dead Tree version.
How will a system of allowing people to see fuel prices increase prices?
The editorialising on Lateline that scored the government a tight win today is just simply staggering.
I expected much better from Leigh Sales – did she not watch today’s proceedings before letting that get to air on her watch.
Staggered.
Q&A was all about trivial issues, which summed up the type of people we have in this country, full of trivia and voyeurist dills as Mark Latham highlighted in his book the age of the five minute celebrity.
Next Weekend is a long weekend in the Eastern states. The normal price jump will occurring and it will be a very good example of when Fuel Watch would be useful. Missing the discount days doesn’t upset people anywhere near as much as getting screwed on a long weekend.
(Which reminds me to fill up on Monday as I am driving to my parents).
That makes it the trifecta for poor Tony Abbott. Julia, Nicola, and now Tanya. He can’t handle the women LOL.
BTW, I think it’s a good show.
While in WA it’s this weekend.
Prediction Gordon Brown will be defeated in two years by David Cameron.
Only one person will help British Labour David Miliband and he should be leader.
Time to change leaders in Britain Labour.
Maybe we should compare the prices between WA and Victoria and see if price fluctations occur Frank.
747.
Cille. Yep.
Marky Marky: Another name mentioned as a possible successor to Brown as British PM is a chap named James Purnell, the current minister for Social Security, said to be a young one on the way up!
I agree with you that David Miliband is probably the only option to give Cameron a decent fight at the next election.
By all means refer to http://www.fuelwatch.wa.gov.au
Now i understand why the big companies hate it, they can no longer put prices up together and say they do not do it. Perhaps we should do grocery watch wouldn’t that upset our supermarkets.
The media to turn on the uselessness of both Nelson and Turnbull, and throw their support behind Cossie as leader and Downer as shadow treasurer, well before the next election. You read it here first. So says Centre.
Ahhh the old DREAM TEAM hahahaha
Muskiemp, I reckon the media will be left with no choice but to give up on Brenda and lightweight Turnbull and revert back to stability and experience e.g.
- Downer replaced by Howard.
- Latham replaced by Beazley.
Another story that Costello about to pull the pin. Nice comment that Cossie had finally found a job in the small tools section of Bunnings.
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/05/thanks-for-memories-cossie-on-move.html
At last, a political commentator that is not writing Rudd off, quite the opposite – Michelle Grattan.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-leaks-in-this-scheme-20080529-2jhp.html
“CALL me naive, but the Fuelgate leak — or suite of leaks — does not spell doom for the Government, despite some hyped commentary.” – Good start Michelle. I wonder who she has in mind.
LTEP @ 596 The next time the Government can have a half-Senate election is July or August 2010, so unless they want to separate the House of Reps from the half-Senate election, which would be risky, it has to be a double dissolution at any time before then. So you can see how difficult Nelson’s position is: He knows it only takes the Opposition plus one other Senator to block something after July, and some of those other Senators might prefer a double dissolution when the time comes, so they could be eager to help. He also knows that once it’s done twice (there’s some time test thing too I think) he has given the Government an option it otherwise wouldn’t have. So he’ll be permanently stuck talking big and then, paralysed by fear, abstaining or voting with the Government. Not really a good look for a bloke who isn’t exactly Mr Decisive to begin with.
Gary,
Dennis is off his medication again. Not even bothering to link.
What journalist in their right mind would predict doom for the government based on a few leaks re fuel watch? The Opposition has very little credible talent to start off with – so who they going to put up against the Labor side and not look stupid?
Rudd and Labor have been soaring for many many months and whilst the polls will inevitable come back to normality bit by bit the public will still require a reason to change and, something more credible to change into.
The LNP really is a rabble of no hopers at the moment with precious little to turn to.
They actually might believe the delusional nonsense they are writing, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I can remember they were so gleeful over Burke-gate. They thought they had sunk Rudd and singled handedly saved Howard. You could imagine them dancing around in their offices, self congratulating and cheering. It was party time at The Australian GG.
But it was a total non story, no one was interested and, all of us knew that most people wouldn’t be interested in that issue. But the inbreds at the GG could not see it, could not understand it, so out of touch with reality and Australia they were. They continued to push the issue for ages continually perplexed by its total lack of bite.
Every time they got something on Rudd they ran with it gleefully believing they had sunk him this time. The GG’s / Murdoch journalists simply had no idea about Australians and they still don’t.
Now they are in total raptures over fuelwatch and a few leaks and as usually they see it gleefully as the end of the world for Rudd and Labor. These people should be embarrassed to call themselves journalists let alone political journalists so poor is their judgment and understanding of this country.
I notice Hartcher’s disappointment of Howard’s loss lingers in his hatred of Rudd and continual attempts to belittle him. Poor old sod has to continually think of devices to undermine Rudd’s competent performance this past 6 months.
Oh how the Howard lovers still suffer, stewing in their bile, looking for revenge.
The good part about this is that it washes over the head of most people. It’s just a blip. They don’t read political journalists and they don’t watch political shows. Rudd has a lot of goodwill out there. He has handled this latest “storm” very well indeed. Unflustered, business as usual and even managed to paint Labor as on the side of the people and the Libs on the side of big oil.
You can always tell if something is dire or not, it lingers for days. Just look around and see how many people are writing or talking about the Laurie Oakes “revelation” today. It’s over – gone. It was over yesterday in parliament.
Inasmuch as people out there in TVland do follow politics, the take-home message they are likely to receive is: the government have put forward a plan to help (somewhat) with fuel prices, and the Liberals are trying to block it.
I wonder if people will draw associations with the Liberals, who screwed them with WorstChoices, now trying to screw them again by blocking something which is being put up to help with fuel pricing.
That, and their resistance to means-testing of the Baby Bonus and the tax on luxury cars, paints them unambiguously as caring only about the Top End of Town and dismissive of those doing it tough (which is not far from the reality as we know).
Very strange fuelwatch getting good press in the business press.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/The-usual-suspects-F3V39?OpenDocument
Greeensborough Growler @ 801 – Thanks for the heads up, GG. I’m dumping my my shares in the company before the news hits the MSM and they become worthless
Before reading that article Charles I was going to write here that I the strength of opposition to Fuelwatch smacked of vested interests wanting to protect their turf. This article, by a respected financial journalist expresses just that.
Rx I suspect you are right. The perception of the Libs protecting the rich at the expense of everyone else is not good. I think inspite of the journalists anti Rudd sentiment the people will continue to support him.
I heard Rudd on the Sunrise TV program this morning (yes he does work long hours!) and he sounded really good! It was his best performance of the week by far IMO. He acknowledged it was a world wide problem (true) that there was no easy fix (true) and that they were looking at a long term plan, including funding for major public transport improvements (metros) in Sydney and Melbourne. Hurray! That is the only really sustainable long term answer. He came across as honest, across the issues, and looking for a solution. If they were to start committing some of the infrastructure fund to serious public transport projects it would be a huge step forward. I’d love to know if someone has a link to any transcripts of that show. He was on about 7.15am Adelaide time; 7.45 am eastern time.
I haven’t held back in criticising Rudd previously in this thread when I felt the government was on the wrong path (I gave him 3/10 for the GST suggestion) but if they listen and move to a better solution, not just cave in to populism, then I will happily adjust my rating to 9/10 for this mornings effort (he gets 10 when it actually happens
Meanwhile Nelson’s idea is still stupid.
813 Socrates, I’m sure it will appear here sooner or later.
http://www.pm.gov.au/media/index.cfm?type=3
GB at 802, thank god for grattan. always calm and sensible
Rudd just completed an interview with Neil Mitchell. It was like he was sparring with Nelson himself. Rudd sounded calm, confident and hit most of the balls for 6.
A polished performance.
In the news service that followed they spoke of disgruntled public servants attacking Rudd for the hours they worked. Who, out there in voterland, is going to feel sorry for the public servants? They were seen as bludgers by the very people 3AW cater for.
At the end of the interview I even detected disappointment in Mitchell’s voice. He knew he failed to land a punch.
Yes Socrates, the Liberals can hardly whine about FuelWatch being a bad scheme when their suggestion is even more stupid.
I particularly like how Rudd is now linking the Libs with big oil companies. His use of Costello’s words re ACCC goes down a treat too. Mitchell tried to counteract that by saying how Rudd criticised Costello and thought Cossie did a bad job a treasurer but now wants to use his words. What Rudd should have said but didn’t (understandably) is that he was using Costello’s words because many of Mitchell’s audience think Costello was the greatest treasurer on earth.
Mitchell always wants to portray Rudd as flustered and angry (temper up and swearing), He even asked Rudd at the end about his feelings on all that has happened and, of course gave him these options as to what his demeanour may have been at the time. The problem for Mitchell and any others that want to portray Rudd in this light (whether its accurate or not) is that Rudd doesn’t present that way and nor does he own up to being like that. People are mostly believe what they see and hear for themselves rather than what they are told.
Online petition to request Govt. not impose means testing on solar panel installation rebate.
Please – this is important.
http://www.gopetition.com.au/petitions/solar-panel-rebate.html
I doubt the punter out there will have much sympathy for overworked public servants!
Tieing the Liberals in with the oil companies is a brilliant tactic, like their association with the private health insurance industry!
Once again the hacks in the MSM have egg on their faces! I guess Shamaham and the Poisoned Dwarf still haven’t accepted the result of November 24 LOL
The incredible thing about the commentator frenzy this week is that the likes of Shameaham and Milne have learnt absolutely nothing in the past 18 months. Overreacting, beating up on Rudd, predicting doom, all to no avail. Dont they care about their reputations?? They are a laughing stock.
Trubbel at Mill… what exactly do you plan on doing with that petition? It cannot be lodged in either house of parliament.
813
The problem Rudd has is that currently he has his hands tied by inflation – it has to start dropping before he starts expending big time in a bunch of areas.
As I understand it a number of department have big ticket announcement they are feverishly working toward in the second half of the year. If inflation doesn’t start to drop they may be even further delays.
For a number of reasons, you just can’t be making those sort of declarations, and so the government is just going to have to weather the storm in the mean time. I would imagine the leaking has revealed most of the forward planning to the opposition, and it’s pretty hard to keep this stuff quiet regardless – I mean I’ve heard the stories and I’m not in the public service and have no friends or relatives in it either.
It may well be that they’ve programmed the petrol debate to consume ‘x’ amount of time. You’d imagine that the current sitting period would be committed to any issues arising from the budget and the passing of it’s 15 (?) bills, and to that end arguing about an issue like petrol that’s pretty well assured to be a political plus when implemented, (evidence from the WA model) is just an accepted event.
Despite what the media has been reporting, my view is that Rudd has remained cool and confident and that Chris Bowen is anything but shaky.
Onimod: I’m quite impressed with Chris Bowen, at least what I’ve seen of him in parliament. And Swan has definitely improved his parliamentary performance, he kicked the shit out of the Liberals yesterday.
Crocodile tears for the status quo.
“THE Brisbane-based company that supplied fuel price figures to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has criticised the watchdog’s analysis of its figures.
Informed Sources – which runs the motormouth.com.au website – claimed the Government watchdog had simply got its sums wrong with its advice to Cabinet and to the public that the Rudd Government’s FuelWatch scheme will save motorists money.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23782137-952,00.html
Graham Samuels is Rudd’s new best mate!
I’d presume he’s won himself reappointment to another term as ACCC Chair.
The reason the Libs will lose the Fuelwatch debate is that it appears to have some impact on prices in WA (which are less than other states expect Qld which has subsidies), and even if it doesnt lower prices, it offers transparency and info to motorists. Isnt it worth a try then??
Except Galaxy to do some push-polling on petrol. Perhaps a question on whether they approve of the Libs 5 cent cut, then ask voting preference???
Now that Rudd seems to have his position well spelt out and under control, they should still continue the attack on the opposition: where will they get the money for the 5 cent cut? which funding program will they reduce? which tax will they increase? or do they plan for higher inflation and interest rates? They can’t win that one and Labor should stick to it.
Further to Andrew’s comment a good counter question to ask would be:
Would you accept higher interest rates in order to get 5 cents off fuel prices? That will leave Nelson and Shanahan gagging at the replies. (I get mixed up, which one is the Liberal politician and which is the journalist?)
trubel at mill
You’d have to explain to me your problem with the means test. I’m all for the solar industry, but subsidising the upper echelons of the Australian population doesn’t seem like the place that the government should be efficiently spending my tax dollars thankyou.
I think the fact that the percentage of population that is both affected by the means test and is considering installation of units on truly rational grounds could best be described as a niche. It doesn’t matter how many signatures you get; the number affected is both small, and should know better.
832 Socrates – spot on. Having weathered the storm kick the crap out of the alternative plan. There is only one problem with it though and that is if the government down the track wants to adopt the idea – I would doubt that however.
#834
They might want to do it if inflation comes down and the surplus goes into the stratosphere, if only to match the Opposition, who would surely promise it. It wouldn’t do their global warming credibility any good, though.
Just wait till Rudd starts telling them on a daily basis that people are sick of their indecision. Just pass the Bill.
I doubt that very much Gary; we must remember that while there was debate over Rudds plan, it still went through a proper assessment process and Cabinet discussion. He had majority cabinet support – only a few (Howard appointed) bureacrats were in opposition. Nor has Rudd attempted to hide anything.
By contrast Nelson dreamed his 5 cent cut up on the run, presented it in a major speech against advice from his own Ministers and claimed it had been costed and funded, even though it subsequently looks as though that was false (and he has never presented evidence to prove it). Ever since then the liberal stooges in Canberra have been desperately trying to leak material to deflect criticism from him. Strange how the Nelson “fan club” have forgotten this.
As I said on a previous post it is a good test of the bias of political journalists if they interview Nelson on the fuel tax cut without asking how he will pay for it, as that point has been raised by just about every independant economist who has spoken on this.
Sorry, I should have said “against advice from Shadow ministers” in 837; of course no departmental analysis of Nelson’s plan costing has been done because no funding explanation has been given
After listening to the debate over the 5 cpl or fuelwatch I am convinced the plan by the Libs was to take the heat out of the debate about their bad management of the economy whilst in power.
Nelson and Co can bleat on all they like about 5 cents, the fact of the matter is that from 2004 to 2007 there were TEN rate rises that added over $600 per month to my mortgage, over 7K pa, and the blame for the rises was the inept economics of Howard and Costello and the members of the Liberals AND Nationals that let them get away with it. There were warned to reign in spending, but Howard couldn’t help himself as he tried to but the 2007 election.
I wish PM Rudd would batter the opposition over the head with this, as the mortgage payment is the thing that is killing a lot of folks at the present time.The tax relief in the budget will help, but increases in mortgage payments far outstrip any savings made on fuel.
The opposition were thrown out of office by the electorate, not just because they were tired of JWH, but the country needed to go in a new direction. God help this country if Nelson, Turnbull & Co ever get re-elected. They were complicit in the Howard years and I suspect they have learned nothing.
New Morgan – Face tot face, ALP leads 53/34 on prims for a 61/39 TPP
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4297/
Oh, and Gary muttering something abut heading in the wrong direction.
William
I noticed you were off line earlier, if you need a donation can you give me a PO box address or somewhere to send you a money order to help out?
““Last weekend’s Morgan Poll shows a high 31.5% (up 6%) of Australians now say “Australia is heading in the wrong direction.”
that means that an even HIGHER 68.5% think neutrally or that we are heading in the right direction
must try harder gary
c-
At what point is Gary going to realise that his heading in the wrong direction statistic correlates with sweet F all, and the answer he’s getting is not to the question he thinks he’s asking?
“We’re heading in the wrong direction, but I’d like a little more Rudd on my plate than last week please”.
Silly.
The only way it can make any sense is if support for the coalition front bench members has absolutely plummeted, and that people would love an alternative but can’t find one. The party numbers don’t support that and are virtually unchanged.
What was that about the Rudd Honeymoon being over?
Shamaham and his News Ltd hack mates are a disgrace to the profession of journalism.
Possum,
Gary says,
“This weekend’s Morgan Poll will measure the effect on voting preferences caused by the recent ALP disunity on how to deal with rising petrol prices.”
Gary means,
“And we desperately hope that this weekends poll will cause something to happen?’. Is he a pollster or a barracker?
844 Progressive – in all fairness this poll is measuring last weekend’s thinking. To answer GG’s question Gary is a barracker and always has been. I don’t know what it is about pollsters but they all barrack conservative.
What is it also with political journalists who insist on barracking rather than independently reporting?
Gary – I dont think O’Shaugnessy baracks – he just made the mistake once of trying to defend a Dennis bout of fancy and has sworn publically that he’ll never do it again.
I cant remember ever seeing Stirton barack either.
Gary: point taken!
As for pollsters: the bloke from AC Neilsen has always struck me as being impartial, unlike that idiot from Galaxy.
848 & 849 – yeah I will concede that. Some of these people just get under my skin.
The latest Sky Noos poll is a joke. The Libs must be ringing and voting online their little hearts out
850
let ‘em.
It’s just another stupidity tax.
sigh, it cant get any better than this–it’s the longest honeymoon on record i think, the Rudder is doing ok.
Gary says:
Despite a rise in the ALP vote now 31.5% (up 5.5%) of electors say “Australia is heading in the wrong direction”, 53% (down 3%) of electors believe “Australia is heading in the right direction” and 15.5% (down 2.5%) are “undecided”
Surely this is evidence enough of there being SFA correlation between his dumb question and the TPP.
Maybe we can run an alternate poll asking whether people know what the ‘right direction’ question means, and fior those that answer that they do , ask them the following two questions:
1. What do you think it means? (no options just their own words); and
2. Do they vote in Sky News Polls?
Affirmative answers to the second question are then removed from the sample.
852 judy
Don’t be too sure just yet. This weekends polling will tell a story.
I’d rate the misreporting this week as possibly one of the worst. Even during the campaign there was often a better sense of balance.
I realise I have some bias, but even accounting for that, the reporting of parliamentary proceedings this week was just ridiculous.
As far as I could see the government only committed Rudd and Bowen to the fray this week. Mar’n made a cameo, not of his choosing, but that’s about it.
I noticed on 7.30 report last night that the word “witch hunt” was used to describe the search for the person leaking info to the reporters. This is slanting news one way.
Cabinet Meeting workings are secret for very good reasons. What Company Board would allow meetings on controversial matters to be public? The fact that someone was willing to do this for policital purposes shows a flaw which for matters of National Security could be dangerous to the Public. If the person responsible did it once why not again for political purposes? Especially if that person underneath it all is a right wing fanatic.
“The Law has been broken and it must be investigated” – so true!
What of the media who encouraged that person to break the Law?
Rudd has a view of the Public Service that it should be independant. This is Ok when you are dealing with normal people. But he has to clean out the top echelon first.
A senior Public Servant is a priveleged position and involves trust no matter what the person’s political persuasion. The action of leaking priveleged is disloyaty of a very high order.
If you didn’t hear it this morning go to http://www.mytalk.com.au/Pages/default.aspx and click on – FuelWatch: Rudd’s defence
Take a note of the tone and arguments Mitchell puts up. I’ve heard him interview Howard many times as PM and he didn’t cop this shite. Mind you Rudd did very well indeed.
Maybe the cleanout of the Public Service has started already…
http://www.apsjobs.gov.au/SearchedNoticesView.aspx?Notices=10397604%3A1&mn=JobSearch
Given the Salary:
1. The wages breakout has started, at least for policy officers in the Arts sector.
2. I don’t Blame Rudd for wanting to freeze public service wages which clearly got out of hand under Howard; and
3. The public service shouldn’t be complaining about working long hours if this is the sort of salary that they are being paid.
http://whatthepeoplewant.nationalforum.com.au:80/archives/003070.html
this is a condensation of an online poll i take part in, the full results plus the summary are to be posted later this weekend.
On Honeymoon periods, didn’t Menzies have quite a long one?
As for public servants, I wish people wouldn’t make sweeking generalisations. The problem is with the ranks of the SES, not teh rank and file. I was in Canberra a few years ago and I found it a frustrating experience; some of my managers were very good, but the politicised actions of some executives gave everyone a bad name, when most people were just trying to do their jobs. In the case of these leaks too, if actual Cabinet budget briefing documents went missing, you can bet that it had to be one of a fairly small number of quite senior people. So by all means punish the guilty, but lets not have guilt by association.
Gary Morgan is going more and more off the rails. Last time, he was spruiking a 10c excise cut, now he is salivating at the prospect of Rudd’s ratings going down. Given they are 61/39, they can only really go down anyway, but I’m sure he’ll make a meal out of even a small MOE drop
Why has it taken a week after Morgan’s poll for him to release it? Newspoll do their’s on the weekend and publish Tuesday?
Could the delay be because he didn’t want to ruin Coalitions 1st week back in parliment after budget reply? It would have put all the news of the week back on Nelson’s poor polling. Instead we have had all this frenzy over Fuelwatch trying to give the sad Libs a boost.
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/calculator/
Remember Antony Green’s election 07 calculator?
It’s still up.
So I thought I’d plug this latest poll result in to see what resulted.
But it wouldn’t go all the way to 61% 2PP for the ALP so I had to be content with 57.3%
Thus:
Coalition ………. 42 seats.
Ind. ………. 2 seats
ALP ……….. the rest………well that’s 106 seats.
Yep, honeymoon is over.
Progressive 849
I agree on AC Neilsen. I had to do some work on a (politically sensitive) project with them and found them very impartial. Even after several months working together I still couldn’t work out which way their analyst voted. A credit to their professionalism in retrospect.
If the speculation by many commenters here on Poll Bludger is correct – that Morgan polls tend to favour Labor by a couple of percent and downsell the Nationals (ask Glen!) – then, being the conservative spruiker it’s fairly clear he is, why does he not correct his methodology, or whatever is amiss, to more accurately reflect the “true” situation?
fred @ 862 – You’re not trying hard enough. You just need to edit the URL. But in the interests of humour, I’ve done so…
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/calculator/?swing=national&national=13.7&nsw=0&vic=0&qld=0&wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1
Results? That’s why this is humour.
Independents 2.
Coalition 18.
Labor 130.
Aren’t AFL teams allowed 18 players on the field at one time?
#864 Rx
I remember a debate on TV between Sol Lebovic and Gary Morgan. Each swore that their method was best (i.e., telephone v. F2F). Lebovic thought that people are more likely to be honest down a phone line that face-to-face. I suspect he was right. But even Morgan’s phone polls seem to lean to Labor compared with the other polls.
Oh, and based on the 2007 election, a 61% TPP would be an 8.3% swing to Labor. If it was even across the board, Labor would pick up another 40 seats, with Flinders right on the margin for #41. Which would make 120, maybe 121.
Here’s the AEC table I used
http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/Website/HouseTppByDivision-13745-NAT.htm
a bit of nation building underway
http://www.theage.com.au/national/500-million-rail-link-upgrade-for-victorias-northeast-20080530-2jqo.html
Onimod @855
I’m not stupid enough to think Rudd’s stratophere ratings are everlasting, they have to get back to a more normal figure eventually–BUT this old dear is thoroughly revelling in them while they continue lol, i have my own reasons for loathing the libs albeit at state level thats carried on to federal level, they made the hell my family was going through a few years ago a thousand times worse, the only support we got was from the labor party when it came into power and our then Attorney general ended becoming a good friend, our present premier when they regained power after the state bank disaster has kept an important promise to us, i’m more than grateful to labor.
The Liberal party journalism of the Opposition Orifice and other Murdoch papers has been blatant, there is no doubting it and, it seems they don’t care to be seen supporting the Liberal party as best they can. But the really sad thing about it is they are trying to help the fortunes of a totally incompetent party. It wouldn’t be so bad if the LNP were full of great talent and good policies, still very wrong but at least the effect would be less damaging to Australia.
I don’t know if this poll means more than nothing much has changed.
HOWEVER with Morgan comments like this:
“This weekend’s Morgan Poll will measure the effect on voting preferences caused by the recent ALP disunity on how to deal with rising petrol prices.”
Haven’t they just rendered the validity of their polling to be useless?
This is clearly a political statement, phrased in a negative Labor context and, dressed up as a polling question. The comment itself is untrue.
I thought pollsters were keen to protect their integrity so that people could have confidence in the validity of their polls?
Well, Morgan has just given cause for people to not have total confidence in their polling which, tends to render them useless for any future use.
If your ruler is buckled then it becomes useless for measuring with.
Socrates 859
Even though it may have sounded like it I was not advocating some grand purge of the Public Service. This would be really a self defeating action for a number of reasons. However what I did mean was those whose loyalty was suspect(in the sense of being independant) should be reassigned to other duties. And I was referring only to senior Public Servants who were in politically sensitive positions.
The media calling the investigation a “witch hunt” is trivialising the issue to just an idea of political self interest. It is far more than that. The media have been playing bad games in the past week and I would be surprised if it did not have any influence on the less committed voters.
I too believe in the sentiment that the guilty should be punished but not the innocent.
#870 Kina
It depends on whether they ask the same questions they always ask (i.e., Morgan is simply assuming that Labor disunity will influence the result) or they actually refer to disunity in the question. I agree that any mention of disunity will render the results useless. He does publish the questions asked.
I wanna buy a newspaper and a tv station, where do i sign?
Poor Shameaham, last week his blog was “Rudd’s honeymoon lingers on”, now its all over. Poor guy doesnt know if he is coming or going
vera at 861, Morgan always releases on a Friday, so there’s no conspiracy there. Mind you I think we are the only ones who notice anyway.
and Kina at 870, as above, no one pays attention to Morgan’s polls anymore, so I dont think he has the problem of credibility to maintain
I wonder how many people read Shamaham.
869 judy
I hope I didn’t insinuate anything about your analytical skills. I guess I’m just saying I won’t be surprised if the biggest push I’ve seen has at least some effect.
If it doesn’t it’ll be the best political lesson on the difference between content and delivery we’ve seen for a long time.
Fingers crossed; I so hate style over substance.
Some of the commentators think that divorce follows honeymoon. If they are not at stratospheric levels in the polls then the its end of the world for Labor.
Maybe it reflects their own lives.
I guess they are all frantic because some elections will becoming up soon…Costello, Downer, Gippsland. But surely they wont have to worry about any of them.
Rudd is using the tried and true – We’ll probably cop a pasting in the polls approach. It’s worked for him in the past, it may work for him again.
Onimod.
pmsl, hey i was just pointing out i was revelling in the status quo while it lasts, it’ll come down eventually –bet gee aint it great right now? i do like Rudd and don’t expect him to be an perfect, eventually he’ll do things i wont agree with –that comes with being PM and running a country, i do think though he’s basically a decent person and tries to carry out his promises through the pollie speak, what a change from the rodent.
an anyalist i’m not lol, though i dont miss a posting on poll bludger and i follow every bit of political news including parliament avidly, i dont often post because lets face it i left school in grade seven {as we did in my time}and i’m not very good at expressing myself in writing, i’m much more fluent in speaking, i’ve had to be with the years i had to spent talking on telly.
i know it’s not good for keeping the government on the straight but i’m enjoying the opposition country wide being useless rabbles at least for now, though eventually that has to change.
New thread.