The headline says “CNN projects Obama clinches nomination”, but during what in many ways has sounded like a concession speech, Clinton has declared: “I will be making no decisions tonight”.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
“No decisions tonight”
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2,132 Comments
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Ah, that MoDo has a way with words:
He thought a little thing like winning would stop her?
Oh, Bambi.
Whoever said that after denial comes acceptance hadn’t met the Clintons.
If Hillary could not have an acceptance speech, she wasn’t going to have acceptance.
NYT
…sums her up, really.
The reality is on SBS right now.
Well David, I think poisoning him would also count as very naughty.
248
Jen
Jen, it’s getting awfully like Greek tragedy already, and the unkillable harridan does not need to be pre-nutped, she needs neutering! LOL
If you don’t get the pre-nup right, she’ll get you on a technicality. Really, you Obama people are like babes in the woods.
It’s not the legal technicality that I’m worried about – it’s the revenge.. you know,
prawns in the curtain hems in the Oval office and such like.
Forget the pre-nup – Just keep Clinton busy – I think this is why they will give her SoH.
Commisar Jen’s here surely Doktor Robert is sure to follow………
Well, given that Hillary had already measured the curtains, that might well be an issue …
#256 – Jen, what about Bill and Michelle then. Can they be left alone?
Isn’t it rich, aren’t we a pair
Me here at last on the ground – and you in mid-air
Send in the clowns
Ferraro’s continued harping about Obama’s sexism gets a thorough deconstruction here: http://www.theroot.com/id/46697#
“Ferraro has a right to her opinions but her drumbeat of nonsense should not go unchallenged. If race were not a factor in this election, she would not be harping on it every chance she gets. At least voters in Indiana, Pennsylvania, Kentucky and elsewhere who felt comfortable saying on television that they could not, and would not, vote for a black man, were being honest. Ferraro’s comments, on the other hand, speak volumes about the depth of her intellectual dishonesty.”
Sigh. The Richardson-for-the-Senate baloney rears its head again.
Warner and Webb, yes. Richardson, no.
The New Mexico primaries were last night. Tom Udall (D) will face Steve Pearce (R) in the general election. Polls show Udall with a wide lead. The other New Mexico Senate seat is held by Democrat Jeff Bingaman. So Richardson doesn’t fit into this picture.
A question to the experts. Once elected – can a president change VPs?
I would imagine so. I would also expect that it could be terribly damaging to the party to do it. Hillary has enough supporters to make sure that Obama could not do it without destroying his own presidency and burning the Democratic Party to the ground.
However, on a positive note, it would certainly be change that we could believe in.
footnote: I’m not an expert
Harry H,
Spot on about Senate Majority Leader Reid, who has been repeatedly outwitted by the Repubs and Lieberman for two years. Clinton would be a huge improvement.
If she is not Veep nominee, I’m not worried about a significant % of Clinton Democrates voting for McCain, but a fair number would follow any coded messages from key Clinton surrogates to sit it out and certainly to eschew shelling out donations. That’s just what an equally fair swag of Ron Paul’s, Mike Huckabee’s or Mitt Romney Repubs are likely to do if their preferred Veep candidate is not running with McCain.
Finns – I’m sure Michelle would know to steer well clear of Bill. In fact if they get VP, my guess is there will be staff training sessions on protective behaviours and personal alarms handed out for all the women. And of course, no tobacco products.
I think I may be wrong about the VP thing. The VP is an elected official in their own right. I do not think that they can be sacked by the president.
There is nothing wrong with tobacco products between consenting adults – in moderation, of course.
There might be something wrong with Bill Clinton between consenting adults, howver.
So jen, i assume the NSC has to issue an edict on a security device for the female staff like this:
http://trulyequal.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/chastity-belt.jpg
What i have been most impressed about with Barack Obama’s campaign, and why i don’t quite understand others doubts about him, is that he has beaten the vaunted Clinton Machine on his own.
The Clintons had Hillary, Bill and Chelsea all campaigning non-stop for the whole campaign.
Obama did it on his own. No big backers…just himself and his message.
He didn’t have Richardson to help him in Texas or New Mexico or Nevada or Colorado or Florida.
He didn’t have Edwards to help him in the Carolinas or Virginia.
He competed in those states first, by himself, and then those guys came on board afterwards.
The only help he enlisted for the whole campaign was Bob Casey in Pennsylvania. And he didn’t help one bit. Casey’s catholic conservatives still voted for Hillary, which is totally reasonable to understand.
So all the support he has he has earned himself…with his message, his policies and his style.
With all the Party’s diverse personalities and resources now behind him he will surely improve in his weaker areas of support.
Democrat women and Democrat poor are not going to vote McCain OR sit out.
The only Dem votes Obama will lose are the racists…and they won’t vote for him even with Hillary as his VP.
He has expanded the Dem voter base and the all important Independants are going to vote Democrat over Republican. A lot of them have now already been registered as Democrats through these Primaries.
As for McCain holding onto all the splintering Repug factions….well thats another post altogether.
Jen 267
Its the Democrats not the Australian Greens. I am sure they can be civil.
There is a mechanism to replace Vice-Presidents mid-term, as when Ford replaced Agnew and Rockefeller replaced Ford.
However, I’m pretty sure a Vice-President has to quit of their own accord. I don’t believe the President can force the issue.
Well anyway, apart from being one heatbeat from the top job – does the VP job carry any additional authority? I don’t think she get a set of keys to private quarters of the white house.
Why not give the slot to Clinton and ensure McSame goes down?
Pah – Jen, Finns – Michelle could dispatch of Billy with one hand tied behind her back. What a First Lady she’ll be. Just as Bill’s 90s will be put in the shade by Barack, Hills’ squandered time will also be eclipsed by Michelle.
HarryH, I think that you are overgeneralising. A lot of non-racist Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama not because he is black but because he is not her.
Dinsdale Piranha
#176
Thanks for your Kyoto post & its honesty Politics is ful of difficult choices , my marsupial enemy was a step short of that direction , but you’ve said it which I’ve been waiting 3 months for somones to say Today I echoed Hillarys congratulattions and for me till midnight so I can only say in general terms I feel its not suicidal , a general election environment is the perfect time (with risk) to point out to voters already receptive against big self interests groups their masive conflict of interest & so potentially make a net voter gain.
Finally I do acknowledge your broad point Dinsdale , however for one of our biggest crisises (Kyoto & Climate) , if one is not going to put that issue on the table in a general election , when is it ever going to be put on the table. Conversely , getting it through the Senate is itself a huge political challenge & peopl forget whilst Bill Clinton ’signed’ the original treaty , Senate ratification was the main problem because he did not have a “voters mandate”. A mandate via a general election I feel is a perquisite to Senate ratification & to ‘influencing’ reluctant Senators. Hillary’s plan was a Kyoto mark 11 by 2010 for post 2013 emission targets to achieve base by 2020 set by the 400 odd scientists For mine the selling of “Kyoto” benefits have been poor generally world wide both in environmentel terms , human/animal survival terms & that economic costs of delayed actions will be greater
WTR – VPs get the deadlock breaking vote in the Senate in case of a 50-50.
For the factually inclined – Hillary’s energy policy is here: http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/energy/
Targets, you will notice, are the same as Obama’s. The difference is in her lack of mention of an international framework.
WTR- No the President can’t change VP mid-term. The VP is an elected officer by the electoral college. (In the early days, pre-1800 the VP was actually the runner up. So Jefferson was Adams VP, but they ran against each other.)
The President can ask a VP to resign but has no power to make the VP quit. But they can run with a different VP candidate at the next election. FDR had several VPs in his four terms. Ford ran with Bob Dole in 76 but his VP was Nelson Rockerfeller.
Pancho – excellent snipit of knowledge.
Still its not really a big piece of power for Obama to ceed to Clinton.
The more I think about it, the more it seems, wtf, let be VP if they keeps her camp onside.
She can campaign in the “fly over” states & florida and ensure a republican wipe out.
David 276
Why?
If it was tomorrow then maybe they wouldn’t but time heals.
What would they have against Obama?
Hillary doesn’t OWN these people. They just preferred her as Dem nominee. The women are most angry , understandably so because their dream of a woman POTUS has been taken away .
But any woman that is that strong on womens rights or womens empowerment isn’t going to vote for McCain and his Supreme Court.
A lot of pundits are dreaming that Hillary OWNS her supporters. The Dems OWN them. There are hardly any swingers in there.
Gee Jen,
You are firing on all 8 cylinders tonight, there is alot of passion in your comments but I can’t work out your point
Is it that, of the two great icons of victimhood, black african or woman, the greatest democracy on earth appears to have confrmed male octoroon as more deserving of the nomination?
If only the candidates had come sequentially, 4 years apart
For the glass half empty folks:
Five years ago, Obama was a little-known Illinois state senator embarking on an uphill race for the U.S. Senate. Think of all the ambitious Democrats who have eyed the White House in this decade — John Kerry, John Edwards, Howard Dean and all the rest — and realize how Obama just blew past them without ever working up a sweat. This is an up-from-nowhere narrative that puts all modern politicians to shame. Even though Obama’s cool charisma often evokes memories of John Kennedy, JFK had spent 14 years dabbling in Congress before he ran in 1960.
Salon
…and that’s the point, that this guy has done the unthinkable and rolled Hillary Clinton from so far back in the field nobody even knew how to pronounce his name.
Smooth operator.
#283 – dont worry. she never had one.
Harry H @ 192 says to ESJ -Will McCain or Obama win in Nov?”"
@196 Edward StJohn Says:
HarryH gave you the chance to be actually express an opinion about something other than fellow posters, and you demurred. Not to put too fine a point on it, that is a dead set softc*ck wimp response ESJ. I know KR goes off, but you do behave like a transparent niggling nobody, who runs way from stating a position. The Gerard Henderson of PB.
Mr Squiggle-
just having fun really. Main point being that I am delighted Obama has won, I ubderstand that Hillary makes an attractive proposition as VP, but I don’t trust her.
Nothing very complex I’m afraid. I’ll leave that to Ron and ESJ- incomprehensible in fact.
Excellent!
June 4 has arrived, and electoral-vote.com has started the general election battle.
Time to roll boys and girls
LOL – JV
I feel no need to get into a masculinity contest.
I think we have all focused on one team but yes I personally would like to see how the other team performs. To me it seems very much like one team (McCain) has been training in secret and we just havent seen the moves they will put on yet.
I expect the hopemaster to take a lead in the next 3 months but for that to be pegged back, I believe he is a fatally flawed candidate hence my turkey comments but yes sometimes the turkey does escape the butchers knife.
Obama’s speech was tremendous, very (overly) nice to Hillary. I sincerely hope he doesnt choose her as VP, maybe Health Secretary??? She has too many negatives, too much baggage, she is the antithesis of the change message, and quite frankly she has behaved so badly she doesnt deserve it. My only concern is that the Hillary supporters are quite bitter, and may not turnout or vote McCain, but I think Obama has 5 months to win them over and will do so, particularly if Hillary doesnt behave badly
ESJ youre doing great in your spoiler role, but guess what you can say turkey all night if you wish doesnt change the fact that Obama WON. And seriously, did you see Obama and McCain’s speeches?? And the crowds at each??
I have previously stated that there was no way the Americans were going to vote for a black president whose middle name is Hussein 7 years after 9/11.
Believe me, I hate getting it wrong, but now that Barack is the Democrats nomination – I had bloody better be.
Go Obama.
As perhaps the most virulent Hillary-hater at PB, the thought of Hillary and Bill being “co-VPs” fills me with bilious nausea (BTW someone earlier said Nausea was a Sartre play, it was actually quite a readable and enjoyable existentialist novel).
However, we have to remove emotion from the equation and I would prefer an easy victory with Hillary as VP (which is largely ceremonial, just look at what Bill did to the environment with Gore as VP) to a small chance of a loss with someone else. Obama could just get her to sit in the corner and screw up the universal health care again.
I make no secret that I admire Juan Cole for his astute observations and historical knowledge, but sometimes he just ‘gets it’ in ways you don’t see anywhere else.
His first comment is that everyone is carried away with Obama being black, but why not Hawaiian? Remember, it was asked often enough early on, ‘is he black enough?’
But he gets it right with metro-racial, and how this really applies to a heck of a lot of Americans who don’t see things in such narrow polarised categories as ‘black and white’.
Oh, and it’s the Web 2.0 thing, without which Obama could not have done it.
Intelligent comment:
http://www.juancole.com/
Just looking at the demographic breakdown from the 2004 election from Wikipedia:
The two education level fields that Kerry won were No High School and Post-Graduate Study. So it is the middle level of Some College and College Graduates which need to be touched by Obama.
Bush also got 45% of 18 to 30 vote. So Obama does need to bring out the Young as he is supposed too.
As for Union members being the key they only made up 14% of the voters and then 38% backed Bush anyway.
Max
I see Missouri has moved over to Blue already
Diog old son, some anger management would help
Now that Clinton has been removed from the frontpage graphic, of perhaps more interest on e-v.com than the fact Obama leads McCain by about 60 votes is that the predictions currently show the Senate numbers at 58-42.
Diogenes wash your mouth out!! You cant possibly want Hillary. I think she is overall a negative and the VP candidate I dont think counts that much in terms of getting votes anyway (Edwards who seemed a good choice for Kerry did nothing in the south)
293
Diogenes
It’s hard I know, to separate the rather vile narcissism of Hillary from her utility to the party in another role in November, but I guess that’s the kind of real world decision making that will happen.
But just to let you know, I ain’t so keen on her either, and would much prefer to see the Clinton era as TV re-runs rather than Hillary lurking behind the arras as VP.
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