The headline says “CNN projects Obama clinches nomination”, but during what in many ways has sounded like a concession speech, Clinton has declared: “I will be making no decisions tonight”.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
“No decisions tonight”
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2,132 Comments
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I find those who opinions are derived entirely from other peoples commentary so tiresome.
Your comments of course Andrew are entirely original.
FINNS
For anyone innterested in seeing Hillary’s exact words to set up & sign Kyoto mark ii , that I referred to in # 277 see below.You know however references to Hillary/Kyoto are a red herring. The issue was Obama not supporting Kyoto ratification (not Hillary) Today first you then I , asked (for about the 20th time since March) “will Obama support ratifying Kyoto” and “if not why not”. As of now your questions & mine have been avoided. (thanks dinsdale)
Hillary 2008 “One of the worst messages the President (Bush) sent was when he took office and rejected completely Kyoto. He could have said we don’t like Kyoto but we’re immediately starting a new process. But that didn’t happen I’ll change that by leading the process to develop a new treaty to replace the Kyoto Protocol, which is set to expire in 2012. One of the worst messages the President sent was when he took office and rejected completely Kyoto. He could have said we don’t like Kyoto but we’re immediately starting a new process. But that didn’t happen. Well, come January 2009, I’m sending a different message. I want to act quickly to help develop a new treaty. I will engage in high level meetings with leaders around the world every three months, if that’s what it takes to hammer out a new agreement. My goal will be to secure a deal by 2010. We can’t wait for two more years. Hillary would act quickly in 2009 to restore U.S. leadership in the global warming arena by playing an active role in developing the post-Kyoto treaty. As a guide to the treaty, Hillary would propose a science-based goal to limit global warming to levels needed to avoid the most catastrophic consequences of climate change. She would re-engage in negotiations, work to bring rapidly developing nations like China and India along, and convene high-level meetings every three months with the goal of getting a new deal in place by 2010, two years ahead of Kyoto’s expiration.
KR
i’m not sure if you were watching CNN today but
They were saying all the PC things and how this was a monumental day in history with the first black nominee and what a proud moment this would be for Barack….then Barry hit the podium and
Not 1 word about being the first black, or history making or any of that stuff….he was just the candidates for Americans.
The Baby Boomers in the media just don’t get it. Those fights are over…especially now. Barack gets it.
I love those comments HarryH its kind of the OMG its all gone wrong for years because we have had cynical calculating politicians in charge and all we need is one good man to change it.
Entirely naive.
Jen,
Is the glass half full or empty for you just now?
I was in the US when the black caucusus debate was televised and I really couldn’t see any rational reason to choose Obama over Hillary.
She walked all over him in the debate. He was really average and Hillary outskilled him when the pressure was on.
Have the dems chosen the best presidential candidate or just the better democrat?
My view is the secong….its like watching Rudd with 18 breifing papers in Parliament, you just know he wasn’t ideal, he was just there when the tipping point came along
we are all naive compared to you Eddy,it’s just that most of us are relevant also though.
i think the depression stage has just hit the Obamabots here that the POTUS is actually for Obama to lose. How many times do i have to say that Obama needs Hillary more than Hillary needs Obama.
[It’s Now All About Respect – By winning the nomination, Obama supporters may feel that they have gained the upper hand in debates with Hillary supporters, but this is a false perception. This campaign is not over until the race is over. Political campaigns can never afford the luxury of feeling superior to anyone. Obama may have won the nomination but it will mean nothing if he does not win the General Election in November, and to do that he needs the votes and even the enthusiastic support of Hillary and her supporters. Clinton’s supporters cannot be insulted, bullied, or guilted into enthusiastic support in the fall………..
Specifically, there are three areas where Obama supporters need to look at their current posture and messages and prove that “change” is not an empty promise of a “new politics” by changing their message to something more welcoming, inclusive, and respectful.
First, stop labeling Clinton and her supporters as the politics of the past.
Second, Democrats need to reclaim the luster of the Clinton years.
Third, embrace feminism as one of the indispensable pillars of the Democratic coalition.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/its_now_all_about_respect.html
Of course your important too HarryH
Rumour: Obama and Hillary are meeting later this week!
I’d be OK with a joint ticket, but I wonder if it can work in reality! Of course Obama has to bring Hillary and her supporters on board in some way, that’s obvious! As said earlier, with a team behind him of Clinton, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Tom Daschle etc, he will win this thing in November!
McCain looks like a sad, old loser in comparison.
v.true Finns
Does Hilary deserve to be VP:
argument for no – she’s run a pretty nasty and divisive campaign
argument for yes – she’s won almost 50% of democrat support
Should Hilary be chosen as VP:
argument for no – not a change persona, not a team player
argument for yes – she can help to deliver votes that help Obama win
The “yes” arguments are more persuasive in both cases to me…
I’d be more worried that she has a 2012 strategy in mind – publicly focus on her senatorial ambitions and hope Obama loses. Of course, that’s risky for her if he wins! Too big a risk for her to turn down VP now, I would think.
Can Obama win over Hilary-fans – yes. Can McCain flop so badly that he can’t win – yes… but does the risk of HRC as VP outweigh the reward of an almost certain win? (Mind you risk might include a higher probability of being assassinated)…
That’s me being conciliatory to the Clinton supporters! Believe it or not, I really do like Hillary, I think she’s still got a lot to offer!
Potential Obama running mate profile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deval_Patrick
Have a look at Terry McAuliffe here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/4/7336/07191/721/529130
He’s actually a pretty funny guy.
Diogenes re the VP – I agree generally, but must disagree on Hillary for VP – as stated by others earlier – she is steeped in the old politics and has more baggage than Imelda Marcos. No General is necessary but someone with strengths in addition to Obama’s. They are all there in the Betfair list.
#302 – Ronnie, i was actually a touch more gentle with Obambi here. I simply asked him to sign Kyoto first, simply symbolically as a commitment to real change.
The Votemaster is up and running with his map. Here is the state of play at the moment. Obama 287 McCain 227 Ties 24. As more polls com in the maps will become more accurate, I doubt that Florida will stay like that. The data is updated daily, and as the formula kicks in we shall get a better idea how things are going.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
ESJ- you still can’t get yourself up for a … prediction, can you. Dont worry , if you look on the internet you might see some ads for a blue pill.
I am going to have to work out where I can. I never realised I could until tonight. I mean I knew I was an American Citizen by birth, but I didn’t realised I could register to vote from aboard.
Hey Finns ol chap
Have you seen the map on your favoured http://www.electoral-vote.com today?
Diogenes and KR, Hillary could bring over her supporters with a major non-VP role such as health
#310 ESJ – Has Evil Hillary has morphed into St. Hillary right before our eyes tonight. Amazing.
HarryH, given Obama is already 60 votes ahead, I dont think electoral-vote is going to be Finns favorite site anymore!!
307 Finns
The “feminism” line is pure BS. Billary got where she is PURELY due to who she married. Without her husband, she would have been a nobody. True feminists want a woman to be POTUS who got there on her own merit, not riding on the coat-tails of her husband.
Sibelius and Pelosi are much better examples for feminists.
I’d look into Pelosi’s history a bit more closely before you make that claim Diogenes. I think you will find big daddy played a part as did her husband.
Finns more on that theme below
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam.html
Diog, need any help in enrollment in the anger management course?
FINNS
Amigo you have always been the more gentile , but clarity especially with characer & gates , leaving the 1200 BC arrows with the barbarian Amigo , perhaps today we made the point finally on the ‘green’ issue
Check out the Senate race also, almost 60 seats to defeat the filibuster.
Who kidnapped GG?
#325 ESJ, Bob Beckel apparently is predicting Michelle Holy Whitey at Trinity is a coming.
Andrew, to what extent do you think is their difference on the qn of mandates a potential problem?
You reckon she’d give up potential Senate leadership role for exec role that didn’t include VP (am not refuting it, just not so sure)?
If she’s acceptable enough to be part of the team as SecHealth, then why not VP? Either she should be part of the team or not – yes but not for VP doesn’t make a lot of sense to me…
Pancho
Terry McAuliffe has been on a bender since Puerto Rico. He’s been pissed at every appearance he’s made.
ESJ, methink jen baby had him in a chastity belt as shown earlier
I am having another “road to Damascus” moment on the VP subject. I had one when Rudd and Gillard were preparing to roll Beazley back in 2006; I wasn’t against it at first but then thinking about it, it made a lot of sense. Since then I have never regretted changing my opinion.
Hillary as VP would create an unprecidented double (or even triple) headed monster and it would be politically very unorthodox. But then again, if there is one thing Obama is not, it is orthodox. He is about being different and it would be very different. She could use her position as President of the Senate then to push her barrows (Health etc). I can see it making a lot of sense…..
I am still not sure about it but I think it might just have wings (I know kids I am scared myself).
Exactly Diogenes.
the obvious answer to such twaddle that all Feminists support Hillary is to say that the women who supported Obama are not feminists.
Rubbish.
This race is about who has the best policies and ability to lead the United States, not what gender they should be.
Ronnie, the Obamabots are dis-integrating right before our eyes, even without Amigo3. should we send out a search party for Amigo3?
326 Finns
I can assure you the blood runs very cold in my veins. Not a flicker of anger.
I have a question about the VP thing. Does the nominee usually name who their Secretaries during the campaign? I thought they only named the VP and the Secretaries were only decided if they won. If that was the case, Obama would have to break protocol to announce Hillary as SoH during the campaign.
jen, it’s good to see you still around. what have u done with GG.
Mr Squiggle (somewhere back there)-
sadly the glass is actully empty. And there’s no more, but if someone would be so kind as to share…
Obama/John Edwards is still attractive to me, Edwards appeals to much the same constituency as Hillary. I noticed the electricity between the two guys when Edwards endorsed Obama in May! And Senator Edward’s wife is a powerful advocate for health, especially breast cancer prevention.
Actually Finns- I was wondering the same thing. He’s probabaly outside yelling at the passing kiddies to get off the nature strip again. Or just plain sulking.
Was he arrested by a Green snatch squad Jen?
JEN
#335
“This race is about who has the best policies and ability to lead the United States, not what gender they should be.”
Jen , then per your own words you are saying the 60% of white women (vs Obama 40%) who voted for Hilary did so because they thought Hillary “has the best policies and ability to lead the United States” ? just wish to clarify
Me too Progressive. I reckon Edwards would mollify the disgruntled Clinton supporters in time, and Obama and Michelle wouldn’t have to check under the bed everynight.
Ron- not sure if you’ve noticed yet, but Obama has won. ie- hillary lost.
337 – Exactly Diogenes-[I thought they only named the VP and the Secretaries were only decided if they won.]
It would be presumptuous to get down to that sort of detail at this early stage of the general. And, anyway, who cares? Hillary in the meantime can be SoSFA
expat, being VP is more prominent and really blunts the CHANGE message. And could Obama really trust her??
I still think Bill is a liability. There is a whole scope for a lot of questions on his last minute pardons that might be dug up with Hilly is VP candidate.
I can’t see them getting along however and it will annoy the heck out of some of the middle ground. I doubt Obama wants to do that, but if he choose Hillary then I sort of see it working….. I growing cold on it, now I think about it….. maybe I am not turning complete around on the road….. just stopping to consult a map.
Diogenes,
Is electoral fraud justified if it furthers a greater social purpose?
Diogenes – wouldn’t they still indicate who it would be IF they won – particularly this time?
haven’t got a clue really, but it seems to be expected.
Finns- why would the Greens want to snatch Growler?? We have no access to safe storage facilties, and I can’t imagine anyone would pay a ransom.
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