No FuelWatch effect from Morgan either: indeed, their face-to-face poll conducted last weekend shows Labor’s lead up to 63-37 from 61-39 the previous week. Labor’s primary vote is down slightly from 53 per cent to 52.5 per cent, but the Coalition’s has fallen further – from 34 per cent to 31.5 per cent, their worst result since mid-March.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Morgan: 63-37
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738 Comments
The voters polled by Morgan are either (a) masochistic, (b) feel sorry for Rudd and his government over their incompetence and vacillation or (c) come from a blood-red ALP seat.
But I’m probably getting ahead of myself here. This is a Morgan poll after-all.
Don’t like what you see A-C? I’m betting the Newspoll disappointed you too. What a lovely set of numbers.
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4299
Wasn’t the Morgan Poll before the last federal election the most accurate one?
Would the stupid petrol debate have shifted a few voters back to the Greens?
Laughing my frigging arse off! When will the MSM ever learn, they are so out of touch with the general populace!
Wonder how many (few) P-Oed media hacks will be using that trite old “honeymoon” excuse this week.
A.C. Roy Morgan is a coalition sympathiser so i would say he’s probably skewed his questions to help them as much as possible.
regardless it’s a good poll for Rudd,even though the shaky world economy would have a lot of people a bit jumpy.
Here’s my kick too. Shananigans & Milne are SO out of step with relevant journalism that they should feed him through a hole in a door. Nice try GIRLS but the Australian public can see past your hysterical bull shit. Why don’t you two go get a job at the BULLETIN.
We can see that Ray Morgan is a coalition sympathiser by his very words “the government needs to wake up.” What kind of talk is that? He reports it as if the government is way behind in the polls and not the opposition.
Gary Morgan says:
“The latest results from the Morgan Poll show Australian electors are not interested in debates about petrol prices — they are more interested in solutions to Australia’s economic problems.
“The Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence Rating has dropped for the sixth month in a row to a 17 year low of only 90.7. The last time Consumer Confidence in Australia was this low was during the recession that then Prime Minister Paul Keating said “we had to have!”
“The Rudd Government needs to “wake up” to the economic difficulties facing Australians and avoid repeating those mistakes or we will have a “recession we don’t have to have!.”
Translation:
I’m a F’ing idiot who can’t even look at my own dodgy poll and see what it’s telling me, let alone a GDP or balance of trade table. I’m not even smart enough to shut the F up when I’ve got nothing to say.
A pretty stark example of the skill set difference between collecting data and interpreting it.
I’m guessing Mr Morgan is mortgaged to the hilt, is hanging on for dear life, and doesn’t like the look of the ANZ interest rate projections/predictions.
Is this evidence of the ’second honeymoon’?
Bwaaaaaaaa!
Even if Morgan is a little out as they consistently favour Labor by a liitle bit, this is 63-37 with primary vote for Labor almost the same! Perhaps people can see through to the hopelessness and incompetence of the Opposition despite the help of MSM. Perhaps people are p—d off with Nelson AND the media.
Nice set of numbers to confirm Newspoll and a most satisfying result.
I don’t see why the shaky world economy will hurt Labor. First, this soon into their term it is obvious that the financial risks were created before Rudd and Swan took control, so they can’t be blamed for it. Second it will underpinn the correctness of not being overgenerous in the budget and prefering to fight inflation by saving some money for a rainy day. The rainy day could be next year.
Last but not least, who would want to have a coalition government and Workchoices, when there is a risk you might lose your job? Thanks to Julie Bishop and her senate cronies only being dragged into voting through the industrial relations changes kicking and screaming, it has exposed that there are a lot of coalition politicians who still believe in the philosophy of Workchoices. That won’t be forgotten for a while, and will damn them during any election held while times are tough.
Maybe by “Honeymoon” they mean Labor’s first decade in office? (Or the coalitions first decade in opposition? They are still adjusting to the role change…)
I don’t think The Australian will be reporting the results of this poll. I remember they reported a Morgan Poll once and guess which party it was tending to favour? I think it may have been not long before the last election. It was certainly last year sometime.
Just because it’s Friday, and Mr Morgan’s poll is worth a laugh, I’ve plugged the numbers in to Antony Green’s wonderful pendulum for the 2007 election:
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/calculator/?swing=national&national=15.7&nsw=0&vic=0&qld=0&wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1.5
Yes folks – it represents 136:12.
That’s just silly.
14 Socrates – agreed. The Libs will be tarnished with Workchoices for sometime to come. They still seem to be defending it. There words will come back to haunt them next election.
Why does Morgan insist on providing editorialising, commentary? Other pollsters don’t do it, let alone with moralising tone.
As a known Liberal sympathiser, his interpretations must be open to questions of bias.
Better to close one’s mouth and be suspected an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt.
17 onimod – we all know the poll is silly but we’re comparing it with the last silly poll and there has been no loss of votes for Labor. It’s not the raw figures that’s important here, it’s the comparison to previous polls.
I kept telling friends during the last election campaign that is was lot more than people wanting to get rid of Howard. They actually like PM Rudd and his policies, a lot of which are starting to be implemented.
You’ll be struggling to find any reference to this Morgan poll in any of the MSM this weekend.
Ominod 17 – 136:12. Scary, huh?
You can tell the pressure is getting to Nelson as he screeches and screams more and more each day in Parliament. The positive for the Liberals is they have plenty of time before the next election to change leaders and get some ideas, preferably not ones as stupid as their 5c petrol excise one.
20 Gary
I know, I know, …it’s Friday.
The silliness I refer to is the previous two weeks of MSM commentary and the LP front bench prancing about as though they’ve achieved something.
In my sporting existence ,I’d be saying nothing in reply, while pointing to the scoreboard, but if the LP wants to live by, and die by, the polls then so be it.
It’s the policy, stoopid!!!!!
Morgan demeans his polls by providing this stupid commentary, which appears to be just his opinion, rather than any reflection of qualitative polling.
I agree with several others that:
There was more to the last election than getting rid of Howard.
The Coalition’s support for Workchoices will help Labor if times get harder.
The whole FuelWatch debate didn’t help the Coalition. I actually think most people understand that cutting excise won’t make much of a difference to petrol prices, and will damage the surplus. The Government has managed to get the message across that a good surplus is a hedge against rising interest rates (though, in fact, the economics of it aren’t that simple).
The punters like the fact that Rudd is keeping all his promises, irrespective of what the promises are.
As Onimod points if, if this latest poll is a true reflection of voters’s current state of mind, Labor is every chance to win the Gippsland by-election. And if that happens, fans in Liberal Party offices will be coated with excrement.
Does anyone know how long before the Gippsland by-election and when the decision on Fran Bailey’s seat is? It will be fascinating to compare the Gippsland results to the November election result in the same seat. Whether Labor win Gippsland or not any swing to it in a real election will be hard for the “honeymoon” camp to explain away.
Antonio
Snap!
Did anyone see Julie Bishop on Q&A last night? For a while there she seemed OK and then she couldn’t stop herself from reverting to type.
Yeah I’d be very interested to hear what people ‘on the gound’ or in the know are hearing about Gippsland. I’d think it’d be a hard ask to win but would be interested to know if there’s something to suggest otherwise. You would’ve imagined there would’ve been some token Budget measure that would benefit Gippsland thrown in.
LTEP
I’m actually very glad they didn’t throw in token measures for Gippsland. They still might not win the seat anyway and it would taint Rudd with a distinctly Howardesque look. Besides, I don’t think they need to win Gippsland to do well. Traditionally, by-elections swing against governments (Antony can tell us how much.) so any swing in Labor’s favour compared to November will still be a good result. And it would certainly make Fran Bailey sweat, as her margin is wafer thin.
I think a wafer’s probably too thick to describe Ms Bailey’s margin.
Yes it’s good that they didn’t throw any measures in specifically for Gippsland. Certainly encouraging after the years of eye-rollingly obvious pork barreling. I expect we’ll see some of that in the future though unfortunately.
That’s because you’re used to the previous Government’s way of operating, LTEP. At least, I like to think this one will be different.
Green issues – 4WD subsidies:
http://news.theage.com.au/business/low-4wd-tariffs-stop-car-advances-20080606-2moy.html
car industry response:
Sorry – can’t hear you – sand in my ears….and besides, I’m upside-down!
From Tim Dunlop’s site. Very interesting.
{It was announced today that Mersey Hospital is to be returned to the State Government to run.
What I found amusing about it though was this quote from the article
”From our perspective, this appears to be the end of a very unfortunate use of the people of the north-west for political gain,” he said.
“There has been too much politics and not enough strategic thinking.”
by the Tasmanian Opposition spokesperson for health!
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, wonder who he had in mind when he said that. }
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23820660-29277,00.html
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/weekend_talkback44/
heres the summary of an online poll i took part in after the budget
http://onlineopinion.com.au:80/view.asp?article=7466
Queensland National Vaughan Johnson, showing the sensitive side of his nature.
{SOCIETY would be better off if pedophiles committed suicide before they abused children, an MP said today.
Queensland National Vaughan Johnson, who has four young granddaughters, told State Parliament that he had been sickened after 41 Queenslands, including teachers, were arrested on Thursday in one of the nation’s biggest pedophile busts.}
It also looks as though Commissioner Keelty jumped the gun a bit in making public the raids on the pedophile network. Allowed plenty of time for suspects to destroy hard drives, CD’s etc and make the job of further prosecutions slightly difficult by not having any evidence of criminality found in their possession.
Yeah. Good one Keelty. Almost as incompetent as the Haneef case or was there a good reason for the announcement in maybe to allow more of his mob to escape the net.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23819546-2,00.html
What does Gaz mean by this:
“The Rudd Government needs to “wake up” to the economic difficulties facing Australians and avoid repeating those mistakes or we will have a “recession we don’t have to have!.”
Shouldn’t he be saying that to the people he polls?
Further to the earlier point about bad economic times helping Labor….
Don’t forget Keating’s win in 1993. For many reasons, Hewson should have won, but the voters couldn’t stomach his economic policies – a GST, deregulation of IR, big cuts to public sector employment, throwing the unemployed off the dole, etc. The “cure” was worse than the complaint. Hewson could have won the elction simply by getting every unemployed person to vote for him – yet most probably voted for Keating. An Opposition can’t blame the government for worsening economic times, and then promise to belt the victims.
Workchoices is a prime example of this. There’s no doubt the Coalition wanted to introduce WorkChoices in good economic times (when it wasn’t necessary, but wouldn’t really hurt), so that it could be used as a sledgehammer on the workforce when the economy turned bad and employers found the going tough. It will be a long time before people forget this, particularly as they can remember other Coalition teams like Kennett and Hewson taking the same line.
If the Coalition started to really show it cared about the mentally ill, the disabled, the unemployed, the poor, it might make some headway. But it’s still going to take a long time to erode the goodwill labor currently has in the electorate.
The word ‘honeymoon’ refers to the sweetness of first love but also its brevity (’moon’ used to mean ‘month’, so the honey of first love might be sweet for a month; the other possibility is that first love wanes like the moon). Either way, the Ruddster’s honeymoon should have been over by December (or January or February at the latest) but 6 months is getting beyond a honeymoon. Clearly the MSM should invent another word. Another possible derivation for the ‘honey’ part is that newly-weds apparently used to drink mead every day for the first month, possibly for the sake of fertility. Cup of mead, anyone?
http://blog.oup.com/2008/03/honeymoon/
Only 8 more sitting days until the Fibs no longer have control of the Senate. People assume that Labor need the Greens, FF and Nick X. but don’t forget about the Nats.
My gut feeling is despite Qld, they will decide to be a single party in opposition Federally.
Don’t expect them to vote with the Fibs all the time. Truss will not want his legacy to be the death of his party.
Labor would be crazy to not beat the lousy Liberals around the head with SerfChoices for years to come. It is the gift that will keep giving. (Thanks Johnny, ya top chap).
It will be (well, it should be) be to Labor as “the recession we had to have” is to the Liberals.
But with one difference: SerfChoices was deliberate and calculated. It was imposed in the full knowledge that people would be hurt. The recession was a global one, hence almost completely beyond the control of Paul Keating and/or his government.
Better yet, as Antonio said, the worse the economic conditions are/become, the more mileage to be made for Labor by talk of the Liberals doing the same again to people, or even worse, should they be re-elected.
Scorpio 36
If that is true about Keelty jumping the gun, quite apart from political bias (Haneef etc) wouldn’t it threaten his job simply in terms of his performance as a police officer. After all Haneef was a stuff up too – the DPP said so.On this topic, two questions;
- was Keelty definitely the person who announced the operation, or a political figure?
- did other named police figures say it was a stuff up, or was that only the view of journalists and/or unnamed sources?
The Queensland Government says state police are puzzled that their federal counterparts went public yesterday with details of an internet paedophile operation.
Forty Queenslanders were arrested yesterday, but authorities say inquiries and arrests will continue for another couple of weeks.
Police Minister Judy Spence says she is sure the Australian Federal Police had their reasons for announcing the operation.
“I think many Queensland police are puzzled at the decision of the AFP to go public with this case yesterday, but we’re certainly not here to criticise the AFP,” she said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/06/2267497.htm?section=justin
{- was Keelty definitely the person who announced the operation, or a political figure?}
Yeah, Keelty was quoted in a number of reports as announcing the bust.
{did other named police figures say it was a stuff up}
Yeah, the QLD Police Commissioner was less than impressed. See the article I linked previously.
{Mr Atkinson denied he was critical of the AFP’s decision yesterday to make public the operation, but he said he did not know why the AFP released the information.
“I really don’t want to be critical of the federal police – that really would tarnish what was overall a worthwhile activity,” Mr Atkinson said.
“I hope that the operation hasn’t been compromised.
“Whenever anything becomes public now there is always that risk (of compromise) … but we hope that won’t happen.” }
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23819546-2,00.html
Gippsland: Labor has promised to go ahead with projects promised by the previous federal government before the election, so they obviously think they’ve got a chance of winning the seat, but I agree it’s a tall order.
There is no conspiracy theory with the AFP and the kid pron stuff. These creeps were in a network – they knew where to find the stuff on a hacked server.
The fact that so many had been busted would have been known to the rest in minutes.
Nothing to see here – move on.
BK Says:
“Did anyone see Julie Bishop on Q&A last night? ”
No way, watching horror movies that time of night gives me nightmares!
vera
I was wondering why my budgie had turned to stone overnight. It can only have been Mesmerelda. Luckily I had an old stone to flesh potion left over from an old Dungeons and Dragons session.
Oh I didn’t realise *Return of Chuckys granny* was on
bummer
Much like the newspoll, doesn’t show much change.
It’s unfortunate that Morgan doesn’t poll for PPM though. We might be able to confirm whether or not the drop in Rudd’s PPM detected in the last Newspoll was real, or just static.
Julie Bishop last night was actually watchable until she launched into the tired old Fuelwatch rant. Tony Burke is always good value, one of the better performers in Rudd’s team.
Is any other media reporting on the morgan poll besides pb? I can’t find any mention yet.
I nice way to complete Friday.
No indication of a change in trend and confirms same with Newspoll.
#52 plebs morgan doesn’t seem to get a lot of coverage these days.
Part of that might simply be because its not commissioned by any media publication – e.g, Newspolls are commissioned by News Corp, Fairfax usually commissions ACNielsen polls.
There won’t be any mention of Morgan poll figures in msm but I bet The Sham and The Dwarf give this comment of Gary’s a good run.
“The Rudd Government needs to “wake up” to the economic difficulties facing Australians and avoid repeating those mistakes or we will have a “recession we don’t have to have!.”
By the time they finish the impression given will be that Libs are miles ahead of Labor in the poll.
Vera in #55 quoted Morgan:
It does sound like he was trying to be politically provocative.
1) Labor is being economically responsible, as evidenced by their Budget. OK, it didn’t set the world on fire with praise from economists, but it wasn’t much criticised either. It was solid, cautious and appropriate for the conditions.
2) Morgan’s use of the Keating line, “the recession we had to have” but corrupted to “the recession we didn’t have to have” smacks of a political statement.
3) If there does come a recession, it will be global and not due to anything Rudd does or doesn’t do. Morgan’s attempting to imply it to Rudd negligence: “not waking up to the economic difficulties”, again is blatantly political.
The post by Kina here on Poll Bludger the other day of a bizarre letter written by Morgan in sympathy of the Coalition (over WorkChoices of all issues!) reveals him as quite openly partisan. Something borne out, IMO, by his transparently political editorialising of this poll.
OK, it is Morgan’s poll, it’s got his name on it. He’s entitled, obviously, to attach any political statements he wishes to them. He doesn’t have the right for such statements to be taken seriously though!
Thanks net #54 but the point is why does Morgan even bother as an independent if its poll result is not reported on (or have a main release) in the msn or anywhere else. Might as well pack up his bags and go home if his results are going to be cherry picked by the msm at a later date to suit their purposes.
What, still no movement? Does that mean that all that hot air about means tested tax concessions for high-income houses going solar, and knocking 5c off petrol excise has all been for no traction?
Well, back to the drawing boards, Thanks for nothing Shanas and Milne!
I noticed in QT this week that the opposition spread their questions pretty widely, pitching up curve balls (with the velocity of beach balls) to various senior and junior ministers. On almost every count (notably Abbott on child care, smacked out of the chamber by Gillard, Dutton on FuelWatch, smacked into the gallery by Bowen, Cobb on the Sustainable Regions Program, smacked over the speaker by Albanese and May on grocery prices and pensioners, smacked into the face of Christopher Pyne by Elliot*), they failed miserably. No amount of cross-armed smirking from the schoolyard bullies in Bishop and Hockey could lift their morale or improve their shamefully lacklustre performance.
* Where she reminded the parliament that the previous Minister for Ageing once said that “he didn’t particularly like older Australians.”
Ha ha ha, Libs still in a spot of bother.
oh duhhh, after reading the above posts about Morgan’s political leanings, I guess that’s the point
Ha
While it’s funny friday…
Just imagine 136 to 12 – the ALP front bench could talk to itself across the chamber!!
Don Wigan @ 59. I reckon Shamaham and Milne are proving just about as effective as Crosby Textor. And what particularly impresses me, is that the tactics that clearly are having bugger all impression on the polls, they continue to employ with gusto, e.g., Mesmerelda on Q&A last night.
I read somewhere this week that the senior policy advisors to Brendan Nelson are from Newscorp, that might be one of his many problems.
On a more serious note, while no one can take the current Libs. seriously, what on earth are they going to do to re-invent themselves? Possum has said he will do some modelling of the changing demographic implications for the Libs.in terms of who votes for them, which should be interesting. Trashing their supposed economic credentials, via the stupid petrol price cut, seemed to me to be a spectacularly dumb move.
Meanwhile, in Victoria, every man, woman, dog, cat, budgie, goldfish of the ALP, are biting, gouging, smacking, smiting, pecking, thumping, and generally getting on with the lovely process of someone getting their hands on Andre Hayermeyer’s seat. Well, why wouldn’t you, on something like 76%, even if you performed like an amoeba on valium?
Seems that Clive Palmer is not content just having the Pineapple Party franchise. He has now got the franchise on a soccer club in case the Pineapple Party fails to perform.
“Once the FFA had decided not to have new franchises in 2008/2009, the focus turned to 2009/2010. The Galaxy consortium’s chances of entering the A-League were dealt a severe blow in June 2008 when a rival consortium headed by real estate and mining billionaire Clive Palmer entered talks with the FFA[7]. On June 3, 2008, Fred Taplin announced that the Gold Coast Galaxy had dropped out of the race for the Gold Coast licence and a place in the A-League ‘in the interests of football’[8]. The same day, FFA chief Ben Buckley confirmed that the Palmer consortium had succeeded in securing the franchise [9].”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_Galaxy_FC
On a less serious note, to celebrate the Morgan poll, I went up to the local Vintage Cellars today specifically to obtain two double-coated snack paks of Patons chocolate-covered macadamia nuts.
Double-coated… double-swoon… rise up to ceiling and float for a while with smile on face.
Imagine my surprise and dismay when they had run out of said confections.
Luckily they still had the “15-Pak”, that is, a box full of em, albeit single not double wrapped.
Works out to $0.65 cents each double wrapped or $0.73 cents each in bulk. Yeah I know, I got ripped off, but the taste was worth it.
To sweeten the deal, the store attendant (no names, no pack drill) offered me not one, but TWO bottles of red (James Busby, Barossa Shiraz, 2001) for nix due to a labelling problem on the bottles. Jokingly I asked whether they’d forgotten to include the percentage of dioxin in the brew and he said, quote. “Yeah. Something like that.” So I got two $20 bottles for nix and paid and extra 11c per cent oveer the odds for a chocolate-covered macadamia nut.
Call me naive, but I would have thought it would have been easier for the James Busby company to print new labels and stick them over the extant, offending ones and get the $20 retail without all the hassle of credits, buy-backs and re-stocking involved. As I said, “call me naive”. What do I know? I just don’t understand modern marketing.
Which brings me back to the Morgan Poll.
When will Gary Morgan and his colleagues at News Ltd. learn that a turd dressed up with crispy batter and smothered in tomato sauce still tastes like a turd?
Rudd has a lesson to learn? What is going on in this country?
Free grog, over-priced macadamia choc treats and an Opposition that wouldn’t know $hit from clay, with urgers on both sides of the equation raving on like nothing has changed since December 2004. There’s modern marketing for youse.
Call me crusty, but I just don’t get it anymore.
Can someone please remind me – what is the accepted wisdom on the cause of difference between Morgan’s phone poll and his face to face?
Do people speak their mind more when they only have to talk to a voice on the phone or do they hold back
The reason I’m asking is that Morgan’s phone poll of May 7 now seems so out of trend that it should be discounted as a rouge poll
rouge/rogue
that self transposing ‘u’ again,- what me worry, maybe I’ve had some Bushfire’s macadamia’s
Scorpio Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
“Queensland National Vaughan Johnson, showing the sensitive side of his nature.”
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty, and will all this to end up as the Henderson fiasco after whatever was being covered ( Pedophile Milton in the case of Henderson) has past, but with Vaughan Johnson gloting over someones suicide.
To say I was not impressed with his performance is an understatement.
Charles, just another display of why the Nationals are being slowly weeded out of the Parliamentary system in this country.
On Q&A last night Bishop was asked why the opposition behave like school children in QT by continually interjecting and hurling abuse across the chamber?
I’m not too sure but I think her reply was something like “QT is a very important part of parliament which can change the way the dynamics of politics is presented on the nightly news – therefore if we can avoid the government from being heard we will” ???
The Prime Minister should demand that the Speaker ensures that the government be HEARD in silence!
If the Newspoll was the end of the honeymoon, does this Morgan poll constitute makeup sex?
BB @ 68
Your story might have been explosive if you were supersized with imperfectly labelled alcopops (and the person serving you was a member of href=”http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23800362-5001021,00.html”>Young Labor).
Speaking of Julie, she reminds me of one of the first chics I used to date in the back seat of my Ford Escort the way she bobs her head up and down LOL.
Whoops:
Young Labor)
#
73
Centre Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
“The Prime Minister should demand that the Speaker ensures that the government be HEARD in silence!”
Why would Rudd want to stop the Liberals presenting themselves as badly behaved school children?
Yes good point charles.
73
But that is self-defeating for the Opposition. People notice they behave like grade 9 kids without the teacher present. Who would trust them with Gov’t? And even the news clip would show this.
They have to have policy and argue it like adults or no one will take them seriously.
Shows how muddle headed they are at present.
Nelson inadvertently indicated that the LNP had no economic answers to petrol prices, by playing a small 5 cent game that didn’t address the nature of the problem. Rudd immediately put that into context by comparing it with the GST on excise.
Nibbling at the edges of the problem like that I think over the longer term subconsciously informs the public that they have no better economic answers than Labor, and damages any residual credentials.
If Nelson and co don’t have any fair dinkum economic policies to put they best shut up or risk damaging their credentials each time.
Hmm? an 18month long honeymoon, and Kev’s been able to keep it up for all that time and they reckon he’s got heart troublle!
the msm dont pay any attention to morgan polls. His comments are getting more and more ridiculous. No one is listening
Kina @ 81
I reckon the aggressiveness with which the LNP pursued Rudd over FuelWatch last week can be at least partly explained by Nelson’s desperate desire to get his due* – in fact, any incremental quantum – of momentum and lift himself and his party out of the purgatory they’ve been flailing around in since the election. With Turnbull minding his wheelchair in the back of the Tarago and with the polls refusing to budge, we’re seeing an ambition-impaired man in primal, raw-skinned survival mode … which is so much more entertaining than that pseudo guff on commercial teli!
* In his understanding.
83 [No one is listening]
In Gippsland nobody from the Liberals are turning up.
http://sale.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/forum-noshow/783936.aspx
I have just emailed roy morgan. I encourage all to do the same. This week’s effort deserves feedback
If Newspoll improves for Labor, the MSM will go with a Rudd comeback. Anything but admit they got it wrong with their “interpretation” of the no-change 57/43 poll
If the Libs have decided to run dead in Gippsland and not bother to turn up to community meetings then what is the point of running a candidate. It is beginning to look like the story of the night of the Gippsland by election might be ‘Liberals kicked again by Voters’. A poor result down there will not be good for the Doctor.
Seeing as it’s frivilous friday, check out these world headlines on Kev’s chunder.
LOL he said “We’ve all had to drive the porcelain bus at some stage.”
Can you ever imaging the Rodent causing this sort of interest with the foreign press? (and over a spew no less!)
Sunday Tribune (subscription), South Africa –
Driving the porcelain bus? You’re not alone
Sydney – Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said on Friday he had identified the mystery fast food that gave him a stomach bug last month, forcing him to …
BBC News, UK –
Vomiting Australian PM blames pie
Australian PM Kevin Rudd has said a simple stomach upset was blown out of proportion by speculation he is ruining his health through over-work. …
Kevin Rudd sticks anything edible in his mouth!
Thaindian.com, Thailand –
Melbourne, June 6 (ANI): Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has admitted that sticks anything edible in his mouth. This is also the reason, Rudd says that ..
International Herald Tribune, France –
Australian prime minister says upset stomach sparked health scare
AP CANBERRA, Australia: Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said Friday that a simple stomach upset has been blown out of proportion by national …
Does anybody know if the Sale Netball Association has been given its $5 Million yet? Clive Palmer might be able to help out with the franchise. After buying the Libs, Nats and Galaxy FC, a Netball Association could be the best buy of the month.
http://sale.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/committee-says-give-us-5mill/781324.aspx
Malcolm Fraser giving a critique on the war in Iraq.
{FORMER prime minister Malcolm Fraser has criticised the world’s media for not having done enough to expose the background of the decisions of George W. Bush and Tony Blair to go to war in Iraq.
Mr Fraser said yesterday there should be more scrutiny of the lead-up to the Iraq war, which hedescribed as a “disastrous venture”. }
{But he said that the lead-up to the Iraq war was a story waiting to be told. “I don’t think journalism has pursued what happened there – how the war was begun – as vigorously and fearlessly as it should have,” Mr Fraser told an audience of politicians and journalists.
“I don’t believe that the fabrication of evidence and the false intelligence that was used to justify the war has been adequately exposed for what it, in fact, is.
“And I don’t think that the leaders of Britain and the United States have really had put on their shoulders fairly and squarely the responsibility for what I believe was a most disastrous venture.” }
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23818706-7582,00.html
Malcolm Fraser is a Lib isn’t he? Funny how he left out the Rodent’s contribution.
Looks like workchoices is still getting a run in the local ALP ads for the Gippsland by election.
http://www.alp.org.au/people/mccubbin_darren.php
Scorpio – yeah, Fraser is a Lib, but he’s also no fan of Howard so I suspect he left the Rodent out simply because Ratty’s contribution wasn’t worth wasting breath on. After all his only role was cleaning GWB’s arse!
William. The Federal Joint Committee of electoral Matters has published the submissions it has received. There are 159 submissiions published to date.
I think it would be good if you were able to start a thread on the submission and I would very much welcome comments and constructive debate on various topics that have been canvassed.
the focus of my submission has been on the method of calculation the surplus transfer value and the need to review the formula used. The current system in place was designed to facilitate a manual counting system. With the use of computer technology this is not longer required or desirable.
I have also advocated a reiterative count where the count is restarted falling every exclusion. the count continues until all vacant positions are elected with the need for further exclusion. This combined with a value of the vote based STV formula would address many of the anominalies that are inbuilt in to the current system
Analysis of the 20076 Victorian Senate vote and a realistic hypothetical shows that had the Liberal surplus been distributed the Greens would have received a “System added bonus” equivalent to 6,000 votes above and beyond the level of their support.
These and other issues must be addressed and the more public discussion the better.
Link to submisisons
Barnaby goes to Bendigo and lists his achievements. I’d hate to see someone playing a non pivotal role.
“He has also played a pivotal role in issues such as the single desk for wheat.”
http://www.vic.nationals.org.au/news/article.aspx?ID=7454
If anyone’s interested, it’s the Mad Monk vs Shorten on Lateline.
46
ruawake Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
{There is no conspiracy theory with the AFP and the kid pron stuff.}
Not out of the question at all I would have thought. Only about 80 arrests and somewhere around 1500 potential offenders now warned off.
At the very least, it displays gross incompetence by keelty and the AFP.
Lateline last night and tonight haven’t painted a good picture.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/
william
Hhaving read of your submission to the Federal joint Committee on electoral Matters and in general agreement, I would like to stress that tegh reiterative vote count proposed in my submission would best facilitate optional preferential voting as the quota would be adjusted on each registration to take into account those ballot papers that exhaust. If we are to adopt an option preferential voting system, and I am not 100% supportive of the idea as it could lead to a de facto first-past-the-post system, then it should be 100% option and not limited to the number of vacant positions.
There is no logical argument to support the minimum number of valid preference requirement. All it does is encourage parties such as the Greens to nominate more candidates then the could possibly win.
The other issue of concern that i would have about optional preferential voting is the potential for parties to register an “Optional” limited preference ballot paper. if optional preferential is to be introduced then it should not apply to register tickets. Parties should be able to nominate the percentage breakdown of multiple registered tickets as opposed to the equal 50/50 or 33.3 x 3 that is available.
I can see no problems with BTL voting being optional. But if a voter expressed a vote above-the-line and a valid preference below the line. Maybe the vote should then follow the ATL preference at the point where the BTL vote becomes exhausted. Again a reiterative count in relation to the Senate count would be beneficial and more democratic then the current system.
A reiterative count would not be prohibitive with the sue of computerized counting. (It would take 3-6 hours as opposed to five minutes to count – Ideally you would have one transaction per candidate + distribution of surpluses.)
Incompetence and Keelty go together hand in hand LOL
And the only person in WA was charged last month – and another 3 houses were raided yesterday and today, AFTER it was splashed on the media.
Why does Mick Keelty remind me of this WA police marketing tool ?
http://www.constablecare.org.au (scheck out the pictures of the puppet show)
And I should also say has appeared in court and has been found guilty, and is awaiting sentencing.
I can hear the sound of hard drives being shot to pieces so the data can’t be retrieved etc.
I’ll buy tickets on the shorten bus on that performance. Smart cookie with great communication skills.
Tony would have been rejoicing that he wasn’t up against another one of those quality ALP women, but all to no avail.
He’ll never make a diplomat, or even the trade portfolio with his bagging of Obama. Shorten praised both sincerely, while favouring Obama through political reason as opposed to a playing the man like Tony the dolt.
97 – The reason the AFP probably went public was they had an AFP officer involved. If the story had broken without arresting one of their own there would be more suggestion of conspiracy than there is now.
Plus amongst the 1500 suspects there were probably a lot that were struggling to have a case made against them. If evidence was strong enough than you would expect charges to be laid six months after the event.
Another alternative is the story had broken overseas at some stage in past 6 months and some bright spark in the MSM had suspected that there would be Australians involved and has now started asking questions. For all we know it was in December last year given the average time that an Australian journalist takes to work out the most basic of ideas (in this case, a “world wide web” might included Australians).
{I can hear the sound of hard drives being shot to pieces so the data can’t be retrieved etc.}
Frank, that was the first thought to come to mind when I read that they had made 40 or so arrests and there were more than 1500 suspects.
In publicly announcing it, they gave most of them ample opportunity to destroy any evidence linking them to the offense.
Most previous webs that have been busted have been coordinated operations where all suspects have been picked up simultaneously.
This smacks of total incompetence or worse. Was there many more police and other high profile potential suspects.
We’ll never know now.
Tony Abbott was again demonstrating his people skills on Lateline tonight.
Shorten got him a beauty when he told him that the reason they lost the election was because they wouldn’t listen to people.
People Skills looked as though he had been “tazered”.
Didn’t the AFP do something very similar last year when they (confidentially of course) told Howard his Queensland knuckleheads were about to be raided on suspicion of rorting their allowances?
Very intersting to hear Bill Shorten say that McCain was the real deal regarding his war record. Basically finding positives about the Repubs
Tony Left ear abbot by contrast couldn’t stop himself from questioning the experience of the dems candidate.
I think Blinky Bill played that question better
The AFP, creatures of habit and operating true to form.
Just watched a replay of Stephen Smith on Lateline last night.
Very impressed with his performance so far and feel that he was a great choice by Rudd for this position.
For that matter, all Labor Front Benchers are performing admirably and are a real contrast to the previous lot.
Um, Senate Watch, I understand that this is a psephy site, but some of us come here to learn (and to make snarky comments), however, for those of us who are here to learn, it would be useful to know what the hell you’re talking about. You may want to think about what you know, and then how you might then tell someone like me who’s interested in politics.
Scorpio, that’s no compliment. A flock of sheep would be an improvement on Howard’s lot.
Yeah, FS. Probably a good explanation as to the 63-37 2PP result in this poll and the consistently high polling results since the election.
The Libs seem determined to see how long they can maintain Labor’s so-called “honeymoon”.
They may set a record here that might never be broken. LOL
On the other hand, they might all just be “rogue polls”.
Isn’t it a classic sign of insecurity in a leader (and vice versa) when he picks talentless deputies that follow him meekly and will never offer a threat. It reminds you of Margaret Thatcher’s closing years and teh vacuum that followed. Whereas Rudd has consciously selected rising stars like Penny Wong to develop teh next generation of Labor leaders. The contrast is stark indeed.
Please say its true. What makes people believe Costello is popular? The last time I saw him do a doorstop he behaved like a child.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23822910-952,00.html
I saw Nelson on 7 News telling all that would listen petrol would be 5c cheaper a litre under a coalition government. Never mind people have already passed judgement on that idea in the latest round of polls.
I was surprised how unimpressive Costello was during the last election campaign and also after when Howard made them a duo. He also struggled in his debate with a nervous Swan. He also doesn’t speak that well to the camera in interviews, not like in parliament.
There may be a reason why he has never gone for the top job, lack of confidence in his ability to be out front as number one. But of course he should improve quickly. You have to ask yourself since 1995 why has he been so weak about challenging for the Leadership?
I admit though that he may be a more seriously taken candidate than the others.
But from Costello’s point of view what is the point? He has to invest 2-3 years as leader of the also-rans who lack a fair bit of talent, have quite some dysfunction – only to lose the election which is the more likely course of events.
After 11 years as top dogs he can only put himself of for scrutiny if he took the job and there is something Swan and co would like to say about inflation, lack of infrastructure investment etc.
Not much in it for Costello, except if he wanted to trash Howard’s legacy and policies and set a different course he knew Howard would hate.
Costello,
I guess Costello thinks Swan is just keeping the seat warm.
What an arrogant S.O.B.
“But MPs, who have acknowledged the strong performance of Liberal leader Dr Brendan Nelson over the past fortnight, say they have no intention of publicly rocking an increasingly stable Coalition boat.”
They must have been watching a different QT to me. Looks like though Nelson will stay for the moment. Media are determined to ram him down our throats – I wonder why.
The Libs by pushing their populist line and trying to play santa Clause with the $22bil surplus are simply cementing it in the sub concious of the population that the budget is responsible and is tough – at least tougher than they would have brought in. People are not buying this line despite the so-called “journalists” wishing it were so.
Costello is only strong in Parliament when he has the full weight of Gov’t behind him and can do headkicking. He would be a different man in the Opposition front bench – like Abbot.
Video of Hetty’s reaction to the desicion not to charge Bill Henson.
She single-handedly set back the cause of Sexual Abuse Advocates by a good century.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2008/6/6/2267661.htm
Shorten’s quite silly statement about McCain’s ability ,flies in the face of a thousand opinions from American commentators in recent days, who see McCain as a poorly informed and of an extremely reactionary mindset
McCain’s Foreign Policy agenda consists of nothing more than a promise to bomb any nation which gets in the way of the neo-cons Bushite agenda…and worst of all he used the conference of peak Zionist-Jewish groups in Washington to grovel for the Jewish vote and make belligerent statements about Iran and Palestine
The problems of the US in the M E will be endless until they unhitch themselves from their disasterous alliance with Israel,and as a Jimmy Carter makes clear in his recent book, only when the Palestinians have justice will there be a chance for peace in the M.East. The zionist lobby now denounces Jinny Carter as if he was a neo-nazi..but that the way they operate in the USA. and here too !
Like Mad Hilary who says she would” obliterate”Iran if it threatened Israel(all 8o million people!???)
McCain made a disgraceful fool of himself when he sang “Bomb.Bomb Iran” to an old ‘50ies tune’
Bill Shorten should have know more about all this, before he offered an opinion,,,if he is quite ignorant as I suspect is the case..silence would be better than blather we heard tonight from him on ABC !!
The recent Lateline interview was the first time I saw Bill Shorten on the box. He struck me as solid but a bit defensive – and although I rarely agree with Tony Abbott, Shorten does waffle. Fortunately, Abbott’s so smug he couldn’t win a debate if he tried. Abbott for next opposition leader please!
Shorten being part of the elected government has certain responsibilities and as well he is not Howard and, not about to provide negative comments on a person who could end up being President. I could just see the MSM jump on Rudd for that! Privately they all know that McCain is probably not up to the job.
I look forward to President Obama meeting with Kev in 18 months time in Australia.
One other thing about much US comment on McCain..the man is aged 72,..one writer in Vanity Fair recently thought that McCain was likely to have great physical difficulty in the long campaign. ahead ..up till now he has sat on the sidelines…some note his lack of vigour…recently trying to bound up to the stage he left an impression of being a bit doddery…remember John Howard’s looking old and tired at the end of his last campaign ?..that may be McCain’s real problem in the long days ahead.
Obama’s task will be to avoid the assassin’s bullet !!!
Forty years ago today Bobby Kennedy was shot dead in L A !!
Let’s hope Obama makes it safely into the White House ,
Gary from your link at 114.
Not surprising that Liberal MPs from Queensland would not want to go on the record. Now they have been taken over by the Nationals who have become a franchise of Clive Palmer all their public utterances probably have to be approved by a Western Australia Mining Company.
I think the Queensland Liberal MP’s would be well advised to leave Federal Politics alone and to work out how they are going to retain even eight seats at the next state election as it is doubtful the Queensland voting public will vote for an instable franchise owned by one man.
Costello is too lazy to be PM let alone opposition leader.
As far as Shorten went on Lateline, he was a little (a lot) nervous as he has only been in Parliament and Government for 6 months. What he did say was that he preferred Obama as President because he represents a new change for the USA. He definitely could not be critical of McCain, that would be political suicide. Abbot would not stop mumbling in the background and he did criticise Obama for being young and inexperienced.
Brian @ 123: I really think that is the major danger for Obama not winning the Presidency. Scary to think about.
Each $1 USD rise in the oil price equals a rise of about 0.75 cents per litre in the cost petrol. The $16 rise in the last two days will see petrol rise by about 12 cents. (Oil had fallen about $10 in the previous week and a half however).
Nelson and his 5 cents tax cut is hardly going to help much when you 12 cent rises in a matter of days. It will be seen as fiddling whilst Rome burns. Plus a five cent tax will cost as much as Family Tax Benefit B costs (which is paid to some 1.5 million Australian families).
Oil is likely to hit US@150/barrel within a month, and may well hit $200 by late this year/early next. Of course this assumes Israel doesn’t carry out its latest threat to attack Iran.
Playing with a few cents here and there is nonsense. We have to accept that oil will never be as cheap as it was just a couple of years ago and begin re-ordering our societies accordingly. That’s where we need to spend our taxes, not on pathetic vote buying sprees that achieve SFA.
I forgot to add that a fall in oil is just as likely as a rise. The current supply is a little higher than usage. At $100 a barrel many more fields have become profitable and production just takes time to get online. If oil does reach $200 a barrel, it is a bubble and it will burst.
I don’t believe “the sky is falling” all the time like some people.
#132 B. That’s a pity. I was looking forward to a resurgence in public transport.
A cut of 5c per litre would save most people what? $1 – $1.50 per week?
Can anyone out there in voter-land fail to see this as nothing more than a really expensive political gimmick?
Yep, Milne, Shanahan, Albrechtsen, Bolt, Ackerman, Toohey, Henderson, Uhlman…. in fact, the whole press tool box.
#135 Evidently, Jenny Macklin too alas.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/25/2254856.htm?section=business
Abbott reckons that fuel should be exempted from the carbon trading regime because it is ‘inelastic’ and usage doesn’t change with its price, thus putting a premium on it wont help reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Unfortunately for him we see people in cities using public transport more because of the increased fuel price and, Garnot saying that we will exceed our Kyoto targets because of the increase in oil prices.
Abbott obviously runs everywhere and feels no personal effect from fuel prices.
NV, I hear you, but isn’t there a point of principle involved in removing GST from petrol, when in reality it is already being taxed under the name of excise duty?
The Government would be more honest in increasing the rate of excise than taxing on its taxes and then washing its hands of its hypocrisy by claiming the GST component is somehow the States’ fault as they get the benefit.
The reality is that the taxing system is riddled with inequities, but equally neither this government nor the alternative rabble have the courage or desire to deal with the issue.
The fact it is inelastic is a reason to include it in carbon trading, because a further increase in price may force people to reduce their consumption, or at least buy cars that use the same amount more efficiently.
GST on Fuel
Jenny Macklin only said they would review it. Apparently all tax is on the table for the Review.
A review is different to actually saying that you would definitely remove it. It was floated some time ago. There is no confusion between considering and doing. One is one and the other is the other.
I would want to see a proper review and this includes looking at the GST, tax, excise and whatever else and how they interrelate.
Oil is probably the most important of polluters. If there is no carbon tax on it it is likely we should forget the idea altogether. Poor Planet!
Doug, you are of course right, all tax is on the table for review.What is wrong with that?
The LNP are grasping at straws and the media are trying their hardest to keep this alive. Why? I don’t know.
I think you’re wrong there Fulvio. The tragedy of the Commentariat is that the Usual Suspects you have listed (and a few more than just them) do see the gimmick in it all but, as they trade in gimmicks for a living, they don’t care.
They have said as much, frequently, with statements like, “While the Nelson 5c excise cut is irresponsible and a pure politicial tactic, it has wedged Rudd Labor and caused the Honeymoon to be finally over…” &etc.
At one stage, a couple of weeks back, Milne tried to make out that the only people who objected to Nelson’s 5c cut were hoighty-toighty “economic elites” (which was rich, coming from him and his overuse of the word “paradigm”). But it didn’t run as a serious point for long. He eventually lapsed back into the far easier “Gotcha!” game, with the rest of the lazy sycophants that make up the laughingly-called “MSM”.
It’s all just a passel of fun for them, as long as Labor is embarrassed.
Oh dear… (shadow minister for environment / climate change / unlimited government hand outs) Greg Hunt’s way of aiding the solar industry is to jump out of an airplane:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23826723-12377,00.html
And how much carbon dioxide was released into the atmosphere by the plane that carried Greg Hunt to do this stunt?
They will not admit that some of their old policies were not 100 % correct. The Rudd government did not break a promise, they are going to make it more efficient, by subsidising the correct building structures that provide the best outcome. Also they are working on a plan to have the solar panels feed into the power grid, the excess power generated and get paid for that power, consequently receiving a continuous income, instead of a government subsidy.
Muskiemp – feed in tariffs are already well on the way. Here in SA we’ll be getting 44 cents for every KW pumped into the grid as of 1st July with a guaranteed payment of at least double the standard tariff for the next 20 years. QLD is paying the same, but not sure if they’ve already started, and I believe the you get even more in the ACT.
However, without the $8,000 subsidy, 44 cents/KWh would only return about 4% on the initial investment of $15,000 for a nominal 1KWh system assuming all the generated power was fed into the grid which is unlikely in practise.
However, likely steep increasing in tariffs in the next few years may change the equation.
I always though a “share” system would have been a good idea for solar panels.
You purchase the panels with your subsidy (means-tested or otherwise) and instead of having them installed on the roof of your house where leaves, shadows from trees and limited space all hinder efficiency, you have them installed in a regular solar farm on rural land, feeding directly into the grid. Most cities have this kind of land, for example all that government-owned land at Badgery’s Creek in Sydney, originally slotted for the second airport.
Another advantage of grouping all the panels together in open space at ground level is that installation costs would plummet. This means either the same number of panels for less, or more panels installed for the same price. Instead of having to use expensively insured tradespeople with licences to work up on roofs, doing three or four panels per day at one domestic site (plus cartage etc.), you would have the same number of workers at ground level installing thirty or forty panels in a much more efficient and productive manner at the solar farm.
There could be a workshop or secure lockup at the farm for leaving tools behind so that you wouldn’t have to cart them to and fro and pleanty of sunshine, all day ’round, instead of when the sun peeks from behind a large decorative gum tree, or emerges from the shadows on the other side of the roof. East, north, west or southerly pointing houses would not be a problem as all panels would be optimally situated (even perhaps on rotating devices to maximise sun exposure).
Much prettier, too. We don’t want any more visual blight on the landscape too add to television aerials and telegraph poles.
The financial model would be that your panels remain your property despite not being literally on your roof. You still own them and so can move house and retain the benefits of your investment. Or they could be tied to the property as a type of “remote fixture” and sold along with the house. Or they could be sold on the open market at whatever the going price of the day happened to be…just like shares, only subsidised by the government.
It wouldn’t be long until such a solar farm would be producing a lot of electricity. But even at a small scale a pro rata contribution to the grid would be made. Solar farms are almost infinitely scalable, up and down. You wouldn’t have to finance a 100 megawatt farm to kick off. A single megawatt would do. Or for that matter a kilowatt. Grid connection infrastructure could be added as required and the only maintainence required would be a crew of people walking up and down the rows of panels with a feather duster.
I once put this idea to Origin Energy who said of course it made sense. But they couldn’t do it because the Federal and state governments wouldn’t give them a license to operate such a farm. No reason given, just “No” for an answer.
The manager at Origin I spoke to strongly suspected that the state and federal governments were protecting the coal miners and other vested power interests. He said that state politicians he had spoken to told him that if he wanted to compete with the “big boys” in power generation, then they would have to pay the same rates of taxes and levies as the “big boys” did… no subsidies.
Perhaps that line of thinking is closer to being changed, what with global warming around the corner.
Funny this… how come the Nelson 5 cent excise reduction did not translate into 5.5 cents off at the bowser – given the GST would be applied to only a 33 cent excise?
This would mean foregoing $2.2b, not the $2b being widely mentioned.
I suspect this was another masterful, well thought out, deeply considered Coalition policy – on the back of a postage stamp – just where Nelson’s predecessor left off.
Have they learned anything on opposition?
BB @147
kinda depends on the land you have available – badgery’s creek isnt necessarily the best (transmission aside, there are some areas of natural bushladn plus older farmlands). The problem I have is that we keep looking at parking power generation somewhere else instead of closest to its point of usage, and on land that is currently non-urban. We alienate land from farm production or we far from urban areas. This is unclever. We could utilise the many hectares (hell, many square kms) of roofs for ths purpose, decentralising power generation. And Badgery’s Creek? Well, if we want to keep chewing up the food producing areas of Sydney thats fine, but DON”T ask for a green vegetable then – given that 80% of them come from the Cumberland Plains. And then we get to native vegetation, and its regeneration…
So, stick the panels on your roof, unplug the appliances, and get your food from places nearby – simple really, and ready-made for a Low Carbon future…
And could PBers please not give the 5c rubbish any more air. WE all know its a crap policy (for economic, greenhouse, fuel efficiency etc etc reasons). If we are so concerned lets all go out and tell our neighbours (etc etc) and get them to change their behaviour – sell the 2nd car, switch to public transport, write to their Transport Minister/Premier, write to the paper and so on.
oh all right, I went and saw CW Stoneking and drank champagne at Tumbalong Park…
One thing that most if not all commentators have forgotten or ignored is that 8c a litre in excise is collected by the federal govt on behalf of the states.
Only Qld gives this back to motorists.
This came about because the states used to levy their own excise on petrol (except Qld) until the High Court ruled it was unconstitutional. (Due to the smut video industry taking the ACT Govt to court).
So the Federal Govt gets 30c a litre and the states get 24c (given petrol at $1.60) It will not be too long until more revenue goes to the states than the federal govt from petrol.
No wonder the Govt are looking at taxes on petrol.
AAAAARGH can’t resist – Muskiemp @145
Well, if the Rudd Govt can change building regs then they’re doing better than Frank Sartor here in NSW – who’s just trying to get rid of compliance with them (and consequently give a gazillion exemptions to developers). Until Rudd brings his own party to heel (and alters their viewpoint on coal vs solar, building regs vs developers etc) then this is just spin.
I think the best compromise would be to include petrol in carbon trading, but remove the GST from it. Excluding it completely would be environmentally irresponsible, and just slow the transition to non-fossil fuel based cars.
The Government should be hammering the opposition on the head saying that they put the GST on petrol, which Labor voted against.
Bushfire Bill,
I saved this from one of Dennis’s articles in the oz.I’m a learner,but am learning quickly about bios in the media.
Shanahan.2:40 PM 29/05/2008
“The Rudd Government’s credibility on petrol prices is in tatters, its ability to function as a sophisticated modern federal government is under question, and it’s stretching credulity on economic management.”
Review: The Political Mind by George Lakoff
* 28 May 2008
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19826586.300-review-ithe-political-mindi-by-george-lakoff.html
154 – Why not remove the excise instead when adding the carbon cost? The question then becomes will the GST be levied on the carbon tax? Because this will apply to power and gas bills as well.
Yes Eddie, that Shameaham is pretty amazing. What incredible is that he learnt nothing after all his spin about Howard and Rudd was exposed for the biased crap that it was once the election came. So he pretty much has no credibility. But to say:
““The Rudd Government’s credibility on petrol prices is in tatters, its ability to function as a sophisticated modern federal government is under question, and it’s stretching credulity on economic management.”
when commenting on a 57/43 newpoll with a PPM of 66/17 is too ridiculous for words. Now the Oz has not got a huge circulation, but the fact that the major national newspaper actually employs this man as political editor defies belief
Shows On @ 154.
How do you arrive at that 24 cents for the states. Isn’t it whatever each state used to levy (approx 6 cents) for petrol sold within each state. In other words it is not 38 cents plus NSW plus Victoria plus Queensland plus South Australia plus Western Australia plus Tasmania.
Ruawake wrote that, I was just quoting.
Actually Eddie, with some small changes, Shanahan might make sense:
““The Nelson opposition’s credibility on petrol prices is in tatters, its ability to function as a sophisticated modern federal opposition is under question, and it’s stretching credulity on economic management.”
BS Fairman 132 and others
I don’t wish to be a prophet of doom, but the simple fact is that in the long term oil is running out, and the price will then go up (further) in real terms. Even the Bush governments (bogus) figures give it 50 years max at current levels of demand. In the short term there probably is some speculation and prices could go down or up (nobody knows). While I agree we will never get to zero supply, the supply has plateaued, and will decline after about 2012 according to the IEA. See their Medium Term Outlook from 2007, which started this whole price spike running. It is due to be updated in November this year, and that may trigger further rises. Amoung other things, recent discusssions in Europe to curb biofuel production would drop supply perhaps 2%. Learn to live with less. Its that simple. The economy will have to change but will go on. We won’t be driving 4WDs though.
I take it everyone saw the news that oil has hit $138US per barrell:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7441462.stm
That should see petrol in Australia reach $1.70 per litre. So much for the 5 cents.
Nelson was still spruiking his grand plan on 7 noos tonight. Just remember petrol will always be cheaper under a coalition government (but at what cost?).
With the latest hikes in petrol prices clearly demonstrating that none control petrol prices except the international market no one is going to give any credibility to Nelson. In fact it is a bit embarrassing – he may as well say the grass will always be greener,
The Poison Dwarf is still on autopilot beating the Costello drum. I hope he finds some news to report one day it will make a nice change from this rubbish.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23826918-953,00.html
Milne’s article reveals just how divided and Byzantine the Libs are at present. Daggers are being sharpened all over the party room. It is no wonder that Nelson is sounding increasingly shrill these days, they have already made him into a eunuch!
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,23826162-5012477,00.html
George Soros has announced that the oil market is exhibiting all the classic signs of a bubble, and if anyone should know it’s George. The current prices however may give governments the nerve they need to take on the rapacious oil companies and demand the move to alternative fuels, such as CNG (compressed natural gas) or hydrogen. Why oh why are we continuing to tinker at the edges with this 5 cent nonsense, or GST on excise. We must demand real change NOW.
Here is the link to Soros:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/26/cnsoros126.xml
Basil Fawlty – Soros may be right, thugh I see he’s flogging a new book so….
But I was struck by this:
Mr Soros also warned that the Bank’s inflation report represents a “Faustian pact”, obliging it to keep interest rates high to control inflation, even as the economy is starting to slump.
“You had the nice decade,” he said. “Now that is over and you are in a straitjacket.”
This is also the dilemma we may soon face. I’m not sure than any government has worked out the best way of dealing with it.
I am starting to feel sorry for Rudd. Its increasingly looking like his time in government is going to be a rerun of Whitlam, but on steroids. Gough too faced an oil shock and the financial repercussions from it that signalled the beginning of the end. Plus an opposition that felt it was the legitimate government and a media that tended to agree with them. Though back then they were much more disciplined and competent than the current rabble!
Apparently, Whitlam keep a copy of his policy speech on his desk and every time a promise was fulfilled he crossed it of. I just hope that Rudd has the sense to abandon a promise if changing fortune renders it economically untenable. That was Whitlam’s big mistake. And Whitlam’s problems were minor compared to what we could be in for.
The #@#$ Libs sure know when to be in government, and when to loose!
Yes Eddie, that was one of his more egregious utterances, right up there with his “old dog/young dog” analogy where apparently the “old dog” (Howard) was blind in one eye, missing a leg etc. etc. but could still steal a sausage at the barbeque while the “young dog” (Rudd) was the centre of attention. Or something.
Then there was his famous (and I paraphrase), “Beazley can’t ever be Prime Minister: he likes Perth too much, and he’s only seen his wife Suzie for a total of six months out of the past 5 years, so his marriage and therefore his personal judgement now both come into question.”
Put these alongside his microscopic dissection of a Newspoll where a 1 point movement to Howard in PPM (while the voting figures tanked) was seen as the start of the “comeback”. Or his “Election winning lead to Howard” write up of a single 51/49 Newspoll in August 2006 (they never won another, and still haven’t, almost two years later).
But Dennis isn’t alone…
Honourable Mention goes to the ABC’s “They’re on a winner… and they know it!” 7pm news headline the day after the 2006 Budget (and for that matter Dennis’s “Master Class” analogy from 2007).
All this is right up there with Hartcher’s Howard “marching triumphantly along the Boulevard of Ideas” (when the Quadrant “Culture War” story was hot), and Uhlmann’s “deck of cards analogy” (as in Labor is about to collapse from within, and it’ll be a big collapse because they’re so far ahead in the polls, but only temporarily, because they’re a deck of cards etc.).
They all have a go at the “judgement” ploy. It runs something like this: “Rudd’s shoelaces come undone one day during an interview. Do we want the kind of man who has no judgement about whether his shoelaces are tied or not to apply that poor judgement about an admittedly minor thing to running the affairs of the nation? Well? DO WE?”
A couple of months ago I even saw Milne, exasperated that he couldn’t pin something on Rudd over the “Did Rudd attend a funeral in Perth or was it a cover for secretly seeing Brian Burke paid for with taxpayers’ money four years ago” “scandal”, finally write this journalistic gem: “Everyone in Canberra knows Rudd is up to something with Burke,” (he just won’t admit it) etc. etc.
“Everyone” knows? Brilliant investigative work there, Glenn. Walkley material, for sure. almost as incisive as “People say…” to which Maggie Thatcher once famously retorted to George Negus during a 60 Minutes interview, “Who are these ‘people’? What are their names?” … the only thing was, Negus learned from that, Dennis and his mates in today’s Commentariat never have.
But I must admit that the reputation of the government being “in tatters”, all gleaned from a mighty poll showing a public approval that would have been the envy of just about every politician in the World except Robert Mugabe, Saddam Hussein and that guy who runs Uzbekistan (they all get 99.9% “Preferred Great Leader And Father To Their People” ratings), was a biggy, even for Dennis. From reading it you’d have expected Rudd and his entire Cabinet to have handed over the keys to the Lodge to Brendan and just walked away, thankful to get out of politics with their hides intact.
Shanahan’s series of diatribes against Beazley in The Australian during 2006 arguably had some effect on the outcome, or at least got the ball rolling on the pack rape by the media of Beazly’s leadership. Dennis even got interviewed on Lateline by Tony Jones for his troubles. For a brief, shining moment, Dennis The Menace actually allowed himself to believe he was a kingmaker. Except the “King” he made, Kevin Rudd, turned into a Frankenstein’s Monster (or, as we shall see later, just an ordinary monster) as far as Dennis was concerned. Ever since, Dennis has been trying to atone for this, his biggest sin against the Liberal Party cause. The man he thought would be a “dud”, turned into “KRudd”… all over Dennis’s face.
I can still rmemeber an article by Dennis very close to Christmas 2006 where he shuffled all his index cards – and those little pieces of paper he must use to write up his crackpot theories – around on a table and came up with a sort of “Path To Victory” article on how it was inevitable Howard would trounce Rudd. He gave a blow-by-blow forward description of each milestone as Rudd (in Dennis’s fevered hope) succumbed to scandal after scandal, as inevitably as night follows day, culminating in an October election where Howard would wipe the floor with him, even worse than the Latham “disaster”. I think he even mentioned an exact date for the vote.
Strangely, out of all his articles that I linked to at the time, this one piece is the only one that comes up with a “We can’t find this article” message.
Well, the “scandal after scandal” bit came true, but as we all know, each one seemed to strengthen Rudd’s prospects, rather than dilute them. I was reminded of Steve McQueen’s line in The Blob as the big piece of jelly just grew bigger when terrified townspeople tried to kill it with shotguns: “Don’t shoot! It feeds on energy!”
If Dennis had been a schlock-horror buff, he might have done well to take McQueen’s advice and stop shooting. Every time he lets off a blast the Monster just gets bigger.
Another opposition member on Insiders- go ABC
Julie Bishop on Insiders now saying that Rudd should not try any diplomatic initiative regarding Asia because he’s only been Prime Minister “for about five minutes”.
Eh?
I thought he was supposed to have solved the petrol crisis, inflation, interest rates, pensioners’ entitlement, Global Warming, solar electricity and the Orangutan Dilemma in the same five minutes?
Pies is racking on about Gosford Gate (NSW state minister and Federal MP wife are supposed to have threatened staff at a Central Coast eatery).
Cassidy, as usual, is asking Dorothy Dixers to Bishop. Pies looks like he is about to have kittens with his “scandal” news.
Is it any wonder Rudd won’t go on this crappy gossip show?
171
Bushfire Bill
BB, This is an excellent essay. Serious suggestion; you should send it to The Monthly and ask if they’d like to publish. It deserves to be made available to a much wider audience.
“Insiders” is fast turning into one of those shows I’ll refuse to watch. I don’t mind government criticism but how about some opposition criticism to balance the books eh?
I agree with Steve K (174) BB.
Pehaps Milne might treat us to a story one day on why a man who is writing his memoirs would persue Milne’s fantasy of challenging for Leadership of the Opposition?
175 Gary
It’s off at my place.
It’s in the same relevancy deprivation basket as Dolly.
BB at 173, bad enough having an opposition member almost every week, but she got a very very smooth ride. And Cassidy didnt call her on her “five minutes” remark as you say.
And who is that dill from the SMH???
Getting close to turning off myself- a shame, because it could be a good show
Still get a sense that the MSM has not gotten over Howard’s loss. They get so excited about anything that looks bad for Rudd; meanwhile the polls remain unmoved; where are the questions about how we get a viable opposition
Poor Cassidy has not gotten over Rudd not appearing. He is appearing much more opinionated than in the Howard years, when he was more of a host
Neither did Cassidy call her on her false remark that Japan is Australia’s largest trading partner (China overtook Japan in May).
I wonder if we’ll see any ‘Gotcha!’ media over that?
Its amazing to see how Insiders operating inside a bubble. Its a parallel universe. You wouldnt think by watching this that the polls are 57/43 (Newspoll) and 63/37 (Morgan).
Pathetic
Worse when there isnt any reasonable panelists to reign in Porky
“insiders” is fast becoming the TV version of the OO.
OK I accept it. Watching this is like reading The Australian. I’m turning off
Snap GB!!
Well the government is in chaos, they have to seriously reassess itself, etc etc
Yes 57/43 is really crisis-level
The only people who watch a show like “Insiders” are political junkies like us, which is a fairly limited and small audience. They stand to lose a fair chunk of that small audience with shows like this.
GB I cant remember it ever being this bad. It was a free-for-all today- seems everyone has it in for Rudd today. I think its worth emailing the ABC
e-mail “Insiders” Andrew, I’m about to do it.
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/contact.htm
Have done. Have also posted on the ABC TV message board- although this has to go through moderation.
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/MessageList.aspx?b=81&t=1&te=False
have a go at these out of touch fossils
i sincerely believe they are suffering group dementia and irrelevance syndrome
come july and somehow i think an ABC reshuffle is in order
first off should be “liberal insiders” and its poor grasp of reality
gusface, I encourage you to email Insiders. It wont make a difference I suppose, but they cant really get away with this crap without comment
No point emailing. They’ll ignore you.
I agree, Today’s show is a shocker. Pies is almost hyperventilating during his anti-Rudd diatribes.
Finishes up with a tongue-tied word gaffe by an Opposition backbencher, to much guffawing by the Panel.
What is wrong with these people? Let’s seem them get up there in Parliament and try to never make one mistake, or say one wrong thing that could be quoted back at them.
Post script: Pies predicts the Heiner Affair will be resurrected. Does this man ever give up?
I dont mind if the panelists want to take free kicks at the government, but have the professionalism to put it into context: ie. the government is MILES ahead in the polls, so maybe its the opposition that is actually in trouble
The only light in an appalling show- Porky talkers about the comeback of the Heiner affair. Cassidy talks about “logging dead horses” and KA says “Piers is good at that”
BB I disagree. We should give them feedback. We are the tragics that watch it.
It certainly won’t hurt to vent the spleen to these people. If enough people do it they’ll take notice.
This show is just a great example of the holding pattern (or decline) this country has been in for the last decade.
Which journalist has really emerged in the last decade?
It’s just all part of the pattern toward an education system that’s hell bent on teaching skills (doing, not thinking), instead of the problem solving ability to work out what skill is required before you apply it (thinking, then doing).
Pity about the thinking….
It seems to me the government needs a few more very good polls to wake these people up. Governments should be scrutanised but balance should be applied as well.
GB 192
I’ve just sent an email to the link. This is what I said:
“Have you seriously asked yourself why it is that Kevin Rudd has not appeared on the show? It’s the lack of balance Barry – lack of balance. You continually push the line that the Rudd government is at or very near a point of crisis when the truth is that the government is riding high in each and every poll. You need to turn your attention to the shambles that is the opposition parties with their ‘fly by the seat of their collective pants’ approach to politics. Why is it that you provide Nelson and Bishop several free kicks every week when they don’t go in for the hard ball? If your beloved Pies received this much ‘treatment’ from the umps they might have won last year’s preliminary final and maybe gone on the win the flag.”
The Pies I refer to is of course the Collingwood footy club and not the puss bag that appears on Insiders
pmsl, my email to the Insiders went in as soon as the cane toad opened his mouth, wonder if we’ll get a reply.
I disagree on writing to them. They NEVER take notice at the ABC. All you get is nil feedback, or a smarmy form letter ranting on about Codes Of Conduct disagreeing with your assessment. They then invite you to write as often as you like, but never reply to the follow-ups.
It’s an exercise in frustration.
Thankfully, Insiders’ audience is microscopically small, and two-thirds of them are Watchers like us, cataloguing the atrocities.
They get no increase in rates to advertisers from ratings because there are no advertisers on the ABC. they get nothing except an opportunity to plead with their bosses to not close the show down bcause at least someone is watching.
I think Cassidy is digging in his heels having Pies on the show. Pies is a small-time, hopelessly compromised Rudd Hating hack from a tabloid paper. He’s a nobody. His predictions are always wrong… 100% wrong. He has nothing to offer any kind of rational discourse. Why does Cassidy sully his personal reputation (or the one he once had) with this buffoon, especially as he sits him in the separate lounge chair, as if he was someone important?
Pies does not qualify as an “insider” as he is, by his own utterances, so far outside government circles that he has become a joke even among his colleagues on the panel.
There is no reason for Cassidy having him on the show except sheer bloody-mindedness on Cassidy’s part, or on the part of some producer at the ABC who gets to decide who goes on the air each week. It’s so bad, Insiders is a parody of itself. a disgrace to the once great ABC, by any calculation, seen from the Left or Right of politics.
Don’t anyone be ashamed of watching it. The ABC gets nothing from our participating in the audience. We all need a laugh and a cry on a lazy Sunday morning. Insiders gives us both.
“Pies does not qualify as an “insider” as he is, by his own utterances, so far outside government circles that he has become a joke even among his colleagues on the panel.”
I noticed that, too. The only thing the other panellists could do when Piers came out with another chestnut was to laugh. Ridiculous.
BB i think we have to let them know we’re not happy. Were the target audience. We ll have to disagree on this one
Onimod, ironically, I think in the lead up to the election Insiders has more of a sense of balance. Since the election, it has gone off the rails.
204 – I agree with much of what you say about this show but disagree on two points. Firstly I refuse to watch something that doesn’t give me enjoyment and/or insults my intelligence. I tape “Insiders” and watch it later. Having scanned it the last couple of weeks I believe it is not enjoyable and has insulted my intelligence by coming out with information that is clearly wrong. It is on thin ice with me. Another show like this one and I’m off.
Secondly, writing them does two things, it allows me to get my grievances off my chest and it doesn’t hurt to let them know.
On the subject of the Whitlam Government, if only they had won in 1969 then they probably would have had 3 years and would have changed things a bit more slowly and ended up in quite such a mess. On the subject of “if only”s, if only they Calwell had won in 1961 then Australia would be a better place.
GB I’m with you 100% on this one. What BB is saying is accept its bad, dont say anything and watch it anyway. Cant agree. So they may not take off Porky, have more govt members on or be more balanced. But at least they may get the message that some viewers are off-side
Having wasted my time in the past complaining about Insiders only to get the formulaic reply that BB talks about, I don’t expect anything much to come of complaining. However, I still think that it’s worth registering our views about ‘our’ ABC even if to let them know as Andrew says that a number of people are not happy.
OK, I seems I’ve been out-voted. So I wrote to them, not expecting a reply.
I justy emailed “Outsiders” again and placed a comment ont he discussion board.
Enough do it they should take some notice. While it was on I was at the Farmers Market in Wayville getting some reat fruit, vegies and a utterly delicious belgian chocolate tart, yum! Much better way of spending my time.
Good journalists? I can think of George Megalogenis and Mike Steketee in the OO. The Fin Rev weekend edition is the only paper I buy and is generally good.
reat=real good
I think it is about time that Labor enjoyed the fruits of its, errr, labors.
WWII and Curtin takes the tough decisons needed to defend ourselves from the japs. He also, in the middle of bloody WWII mind you, makes major reforms to the economy like the Reserve Bank, uniform taxation and post war resettlement of returning soldiers and the post war immigration program, Snowies etc.
Chifley then loses the election to Pig Iron Bob who coasts along on those reforms, fiddling with the economy occasionally resulting in highest-ever inflation followed by credit squeeze. Like the rodent, PIB ensures he has no decent successors but retires at a time of his choosing unlike the rodent.
Twenty years later, Hawke/Keating reform the economy, Howard/Costello coast along on these reforms. Now the rudd government has major problems to cope with, another oil price surge like Whitlam but this time maybe peak oil will make the problem even worse. he will overcome them, but I don’t want to see another useless Lib govt coast along on Labor work again.
Online newspapers get their income from the number of hits they get from people browsing them. If you wish to complain about certain sites, go to a site that has balanced reporting and post your complaints there. This will help the more balanced reporters gain both income and recognition for their organisation. All you are doing by posting on bad sites is helping them, If a site offends you DONT SUPPORT IT BY POSTING THERE! Sorry about the ’shouting’ but I an getting really sick of the posters saying that “I sent them an email…”. PLEASE post your grievances on a site that you wish to support.
Tom
Sheesh… as soon as I break the habit of ages and actually write to the ABC, Tom comes along and tells me off.
Ya can’t win, can ya?
I don’t watch insiders, mainly because the cost of replacing TV’s busted by flying bricks would be too great.
I agree with BB though about not emailing, ignoring them would hurt more. They might then realise that NO ONE IS WATCHING. but then again they don’t axe shows on the ABC because of bad ratings, do they?
Rudd was on Meet The Press on 10 this morning. I missed it but seems like he’s had a dig at Brenda lol
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23830432-662,00.html
Rudd baits Nelson on Obama support
PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd has challenged Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson to distance himself from comments by John Howard about Barack Obama.
“Mr Nelson was defence minister at the time, he didn’t disagree with Mr Howard’s statement then, I challenge Mr Nelson today to publicly distance himself from Mr Howard’s remarks now that he is leader and alternative prime minister,” Mr Rudd told the Ten Network today.
“but then again they don’t axe shows on the ABC because of bad ratings, do they?”
They might. Whatever happened to that sleeping pill hosted by Jeff McMullen?
actually Rudd was very impressive on Meet The Press today, he fielded the questions in an unruffled good humoured way, totally relaxed and at ease, it’s Insiders loss that he refuses to appear there.
I don’t have any figures handy, but I’d imagine it’s a bit of a no-brainer decision on the basis of viewership in choosing between 9, 10 or their ABC on Sunday mornings.
vera Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
“I don’t watch insiders, mainly because the cost of replacing TV’s busted by flying bricks would be too great.”
One of the quotes of the year!
Insiders is really not that bad and it is what it is. A fluffy, opinionated look at the week in politics.
More quotes worth commending:
“Andrew Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 9:26 am
And who is that dill from the SMH???
gusface Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 9:57 am
have a go at these out of touch fossils
i sincerely believe they are suffering group dementia and irrelevance syndrome
Bushfire Bill Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 10:00 am
I agree, Today’s show is a shocker. Pies is almost hyperventilating during his anti-Rudd diatribes.”
Andrew, Kerry-Ann Walsh is the Sun Herald contributor. She’s the one who ran with “story” about Rudd’s background and his recollections of his family being tossed off the farm.
You can contact her at kwalsh@sunherald.com.au I am sure she would appreciate the feedback.
Everyone’s favourite can be contacted at akermanp@dailytelegraph.com.au
204
Bushfire Bill Says:
There is no reason for Cassidy having him [Ackerman] on the show except sheer bloody-mindedness on Cassidy’s part,…
It’s all part of a cunning communist ABC plan to give the conservateriat ample opportunity to behave like fools and knaves in the full public gaze. And it is working a treat.
If only the “Insiders” listened to the Your Shout people they could hear what is going on in the real world. I was impressed with the three on today, they had a genuine gripe with the government, but also realised that everything can’t be done in such a short time.
Kerry-Ann Walsh was also responsible for the beat up “Rudd endagering health of staff by not taking doctor on OS trip” what a load of shit.
she’s still at it by the way
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/06/07/1212259177590.html
INSIDERS? I’ve stopped watching, the program isn’t the agenda setting tool Cassidy & co would like to think it is, and the continual parroting of extreme right wing views/Rudd bashing has ruined what could potentially be an informative piece of television!
Hard to believe, but Rudd gets fairer coverage on the commercial networks these days!
Another point: Barry Cassidy looks down on someone who appears on SUNRISE or TODAY regularly, and snubs his show. Maybe Barry it’s because virtually nobody except a few journos and political junkies watch INSIDERS, the Ruddster is more interested in reaching a wider audience?
I just got Morgan Phone polled. The usual Morgan political questions plus a heap of questions for Tourism Victoria and a question on legalising marijuana. There was one odd question:
“Do you believe a woman’s place is in the home and a man should earn the money?”
porkies porkies get shot down in super quick time
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/06/08/1212863429807.html
“club apologises to della bosca and withdraws all staff statements”
The management of a Gosford nightclub has retracted all staff statements in an apology to a NSW minister and his federal MP wife, denying the couple were abusive and threatening during an altercation on Friday night.
As Julia Gillard said on Insiders, Cassidy behaved like a “jilted lover” when Rudd pulled out of Insiders (the same day of the Rove appearance). He is still behaving like one, and good on Rudd for staying away.
Whilst I and others have been complaining about the high % of opposition v govt guests there are, maybe the govt guests dont want to go on, and would rather appear on MTP and Sunday, shows that more people watch.
And thanks BB for emailing a complaint!!!
transcript of Rudd on the meet the press. the show I should have watched instead of Insiders
http://legacy.ten.com.au/library/documents/mtp0806.doc
Well that’s KerryAnne for you – not that I disagree with the sentiments of the annual Australian Community Sector Survey, released on Friday, bwtf it’s Kev’s fault????
Blindly ignoring the fact that it has been the MSM’s preoccupation of petrol sniffing and snivelling over the last 2 weeks, there’s a report – a report I tell ya – released on, oh yeah, yesterday.
Never mind that it was 2006 – 2007 that the report was looking at (when was Kev elected?) He hasn’t acted, the big fat arse.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/rich-country-poor-underclass/2008/06/07/1212259177882.html
I’ll leave this end quote : “Give us a break. Or rather, those who need it – and there are way too many, Kev.”
231 gusface – ie they reviewed the security video.
Of course, too late to make it into the Sunday papers. They’re still down at the local Franklins screaming bloody blue murder over this “outrage”.
Same thing happened with Milne’s totally unsubstantiated, outright lie re. Rudd being ejected from Skidmarks (or whatever that strip club in NY was called). He only repeated it once (on Insiders, funnily enough…) and then shut up. But he never retracted it either.
As Harry Snapper Morgan wrote last week: the aim isn’t to get any of the accusations to stick on the day. It’s to chip-chip-chip away. Then, when they do get something to pin on someone, all the “I told you so’s” will be regurgitated like a magpie’s breakfast.
Just thinking about Pies’ malevolent meanderings this morning about Heiner and Gosford Gate makes my blood boil. Such hatred as Pies displays should not be allowed in the land. It’s a corrosive force. It does no-one (least of all the Insiders program) any good at all to have this creep spreading his double-barreled bile over a pleasant Sunday morning. The guy is so keen to butt into the conversation he nearly chokes himself in his eagerness.
Once the ABC would NEVER have allowed this garbage to come anywhere near its good name.
Well that’s KerryAnne for you – not that I disagree with the sentiments of the annual Australian Community Sector Survey, released on Friday, bwtf it’s Kev’s fault????
Blindly ignoring the fact that it has been the MSM’s preoccupation of petrol sniffing and snivelling over the last 2 weeks, there’s a report – a report I tell ya – released on, oh yeah, yesterday.
Never mind that it was 2006 – 2007 that the report was looking at (when was Kev elected?) He hasn’t acted, the big fat arse.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/rich-country-poor-underclass/2008/06/07/1212259177882.html
I’ll leave this end quote : “Give us a break. Or rather, those who need it – and there are way too many, Kev.”
Hilary did one thing her husband never did.
She pulled out.
230- Was that a straight yes or no question or was it like most morgan polls where there is a range of opitions:
Strongly Disagree (How dare you suggest such a thing)
Disagree (I am happy with women working)
Neither agree or disagree (I am too stupid to have an opinion)
Agree (Damn straight, I miss the ’50’s)
Strongly Agree (A women’s place is really only in the Kitchen)
Re the Kerry-Anne Walsh article. So which party with the help of the MSM have continued with “the tasteless proposals that a government should forgo $2billion a year in petrol taxes to give a Vegemite sandwich in relief to those who can actually afford to run a car”?
Rudd competing with Howard for silliest idea. Howard still ahead with going to war with Iraq, but Rudd’s trying hard.
Note to Rudd, it’s a limited resource, limiting demand might be an idea.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-calls-on-g8-to-pressure-opec-to-raise-supply-20080608-2nhc.html
If a barrel of crude can go up $10.95 overnight becuase of the thoughts of a minor Isreali politician then it is not a supply and demand issue.
It is a commodity market being expoited. Someone made an 7% profit overnight.
Maybe Iran was correct and it should establish its own market trading in Euros. But this would ensure retaliation from somebody.
I do wish the NRMA would stop going on about the 1 cent on petrol per dollar per barrel of oil nonsense. I showed on this site, how the actual figure is about 0.75 cents. It used to be a Cent per dollar when the AUD was 0.76 USD or so but in the meantime the US dollar has dropped in value.
By telling the oil companies they expect a 10 cent rise when only 7.5 cent rise is necessary is asking for them to profiteer from the situation.
My thread on today’s insiders in the ABC TV blog didnt make it through moderation- surprise! but this is one with some negative comments
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/Message.aspx?b=81&m=20040&ps=20&dm=1&pd=3
I e-mailed Piers – “Why on earth would anyone take any notice of what you say? You’re hero was beaten last election, get over it mate. As Cassidy says stop flogging dead horses and actually be a journalist. Report the deficiencies of both sides not just one.
Get used to Rudd Piers, he’s going to be around a long time.”
His reply? “My track record would not indicate a career spent flogging dead horses. My advice to you is don’t speak too soon about matters you know nothing about.”
LOL
Cassidy ought to be ashamed to have his name associated with his show. It is pointless apart from being an avenue for Liberal party members to produce statements to be quoted as news.
Continually having a bunch of Liberal party hack journalists as the panel makes it obvious that it is deliberately designed to be a pro-Liberal anti-Labor show.
Liberal party shadow ministers get soft interviews and in fact get lead into areas where they can make their ‘news-worthy’ quotes for the day. They may as well have Ackerman do the interviews as Cassidy.
Why would Rudd legitimise what is no more than a Liberal party agony group?
Cassidy should know that his show is next to pathetic, though it probably makes the neocons in exile feel good about themselves.
Phooey on petrol. Australia is sitting on so much gas that if you lit a match in strategic areas, the entire continent, if not half the hemisphere, would lift off into space. I don’t know if Marn Fnerson is across this, but I’d be damned surprised if he wasn’t. We’ve got so much gas, we’re the Qatar of gas. South Australia seems to miss out on anything but Dolly, but the rest of the country, well bar Tasmania, and they’ve got scenery and wine, has got unbelievable, humungous amounts of gas. Bit of smarts in terms of transport, particularly public, and moving big stuff around the place, re-jigging transport in general, industry should have a fine time of it, the PM should be happy the place is manufacturing things. Bobs you’re uncle.
Seriously, we’re sitting on an amazing amount of alternative fuel. Will make Brendon (I’m a doctor) and his 5c. proposal look even more like a fool. Goody.
Does Cassidy have an a public e-mail address?
So which is it? A supply and demand problem in Oil or supply and demand problem due to lack of refinery output? Or, simply trading on sentiment?
The ABC news tonight was a corker too. It is explained in more depth here.
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/08/more-abc-bias/
Kina, Rather than agonise about the wretched Insiders Program, I’d suggest simply not watching anymore. I have,and have to say feel much better for it. It’s rubbish, we all agree it’s rubbish, why bother? On the wider question of the ABC having gone off the rails, I’d suggest something like a Get Up campaign to the gov’t to say they had made a pre-election commitment to independently appointed boards to bodies such as the ABC, and get on with it, forthwith.
The other news services used Robb as their only source of “proof” too. Bloody disgraceful.
I may be in moderation, though I’ve no idea why, but I’ll have another go at commenting on the fuel issue.
Petrol. forget about it, and phooey on petrol. We’ve got so much gas you could light a match under much of Australia, and the entire continent, probably most of the hemisphere, would erupt into space.
We’re the Qatar of gas.
We’ve got so much gas, even without the fauna farting, that we could probably fuel the planet for hundreds of years.
I’m sure Marn Fnerson has heard of it.
How long before the Liberal Party installed thought police finish their contracts and Australia can have its ABC back?
Madam Lizard-Skin will be slowly falling into a mentally created alternative reality of denial, where Johny boy still pats her on the head saying ‘good dog’ and, Australians are the indentured servants of big business under WorkChoices, The Australian has replace the Supreme Court, Climate Change has stopped, CO2 is good for health, and the Labor party outlawed by a meeting the full bench of The Australian, and whatever she says is consider the new Gospel of Truth and, all who disagree exiled to the SM dungeon.
maybe the journo’s? in question could have their membership of the MAEA changed from full member to “provisional” nad then. subsequently publish a list of said ‘provisionals’ with a proviso to use extreme caution when reading/listening to their “opinions”. a tag line along the lines of “not authorised by the liberal party but actually paid for” would also work a treat
(cross posted at LP)
Petrol, phooey. We’re sitting on so much gas that if you lit a match under some parts of Australia, the entire continent, possibly a part of the hemisphere would erupt into space.
We’re the Qatar of gas.
I’m sure Marn Fnerson knows about it.
And therefore, the gov’t.
While the stupid narrative being spun by the MSM is one of Rudd being too preoccupied with committees and so forth, I suspect something much more devastating for the so-called Opposition.
As to Insiders, I think they’re best ignored these days, It’s just rubbish, why would you watch it?
The ABC? Would constant complaints to Stephan Conroy to effect the gov’t’s pledge to have independent bodies appoint people to boards help?
Kina, gusface, steve, seriously, we’ve got so much gas, it’s enough to fuel the joint for a very long time.
Hey, hang on, what”s this “we” business?
That’s WA gas, and don’t you forget it!
Especially when it comes to your bleating about our share of GST income! LoL
Are there any plans to bring back the staff elected director to th ABC board?
News on McEwen –
http://www.theage.com.au/national/end-in-sight-for-mcewen-ballot-battle-20080608-2nko.html
I wish you ppl with jobs would all hurry up and buy hybrid cars, cos I am a pensioner, I only ever get to buy cars that are 10-15+ old… get off your ass’s ppl and buy these hybrids, even if ya dont think you can really afford it…
Your hand -me-downs will be what I driving in 15yrs
A.B.C. News Thing –
I am a first year politics student, and I believe you allowed to have your opinion. But I do not think the evening news is the right place to do, especially when there are people who cannot read the media like us do and take it at face value. There, you cannot afford to have bias on anyside. You need to be objective.
Shanahan is bursting with pride that Labor has put up Howard’s name for a gong in the Queen’s Birthday list, Companion of the Order of Australia.
This is, in Shanaland, a recognition of all Howard’s acheivements, including the GST and even Workchoices.
But of course Howard is too much of a Statesman to say this himself according to Dennis.
The award is automatically bestowed on all retired (booted out igonominiously or otherwise), Australian Prime Ministers, no matter how awful they are, but this little known fact is not something made much of in Shanaland.
I wonder how many people who have received the award, because they actually deserved it, will be returning it now.
Paul Keating declined his gong.
Howard gets the OoA…
See. Pigs DO fly!
Glenn Milne is full of it again in the Australian (no link).
He claims that Tom Hughes, the crusty old QC and ex-Attorney General, has spoken.
Fuel Watch won’t catch unincorporated franchisees.
Probably won’t, but how many unincorporated franchisees are there? Does anyone sell fuel in a service station scenario without a company structure behind them?
The federal power over corporations extends to all corporations, not just Big Business oil companies. Even little ones who run a corner independent discount petrol station.
In other words, Hughes’ advice, while perhaps technically correct, applies to so few real word petrol retailing operations as to be practically meaningless.
If you’re a company and you sell petrol, you’re part of Fuel watch, whether you like it or not.
Milne’s article sets Tom Hughes up as some sort of Establishment Godfather figure, not to be slighted by the ring-in players of mere Labor governments, in office through some inexplicable miscalculation by a few voters in marginal electorates. “Ooh-Aah! Let’s get all nervous, boys. Uncle Tom is qwanky.”
Another example of Labor Wreckers, apparently, thinking they can change the status quo when John Howard isn’t looking. Can’t the man even go off to watch the cricket without the locks being changed? Labor’s job should be to do a little damage as possible while in office, to preserve the chandeliers, cover the Chesterfields with sheets, and put a feather duster over the mantle piece until the True Father Of The Nation can make a comeback. He will then try to undo any confusion that may have arisen in the public’s mind that he lost office in about the most comprehensive manner possible last November (and we’ll check the silverware, thank you very much).
Everything they write purports to chip away at Labor’s legitimacy in office. They change things that shouldn’t be changed. They have their own policies (the cheek!). They brawl in restaurants and get chucked out (oh, wait a minute, no they don’t). They meet with shady figures from their own party (uh-hum, they don’t do that either). They use taxpayers’ money to go on overseas junkets. They take doctors with them. They don’t take doctors with them (depends on which paper you read). And now they’re mucking about with the precious Constitution, dabbling in enacting laws they should not even contemplate, and of which they clearly don’t understand the full ramifications. This means it’s just going to be harder to undo all their tinkering with really, really important things.
But don’t worry, grumpy old Uncle Tom is on the job. He has rellies in high places, don’t you know. Why (amazing)… Malcolm Turnbull is one of his sons-in-law. The Hughes family is one of the most important in the Sydney establishment. And these Labor ruffians have upset him.
Well, we’ll see about that…
Just who are the Cane Toad’s sources in Japan? As if any self-respecting member of the Japanese establishment would lower themselves to confide in that repulsive little bloat-fish.
BB, wasn’t Uncle Tom AG in a Liberal govt, was it Fraser’s? He is bound to be unbiased, not.
Kina 250 –
How long before the Liberal Party installed thought police finish their contracts and Australia can have its ABC back?
Somehow I don’t think it’ll be as easy as giving the Liberal aparachiks the flick. Their influence has become so pervasive that the staff now automatically spin in the ‘right’ direction without needing any prompting, just as Rupert’s lads and lasses do. Unfortunately, reversing 11 years of brainwashing can’t be undone in a few months.
However, I was encouraged that ABC news has finally realised Robb is the shadow FM, and not Lord Lunchalot.
The John Della Bosca – Belinda Neal incident in Gosford is the lead item on the SMH this morning:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/ministers-job-on-line/2008/06/08/1212863458288.html
If it as reported they both should go. Abuse of their authority is unethical conduct by any definition of the term. They potentially embarrass both governments. Rudds can afford some embarrassment; Iemma’s cannot.
Basil, the point is that Tom Hughes is a “gun for hire”. He argues whatever brief is put before him. As even Milne points out, Hughes isn’t infallible (he lost the Mercedes Corby case for Channel 7). Highes’ opinion is just that: an opinion. It carries no weight at law.
The import of Milne’s story is that Rudd Labor has upset him and, because of his importance in the Sydney Establishment, to upset Tom Hughes is a bad thing.
The whole premiss of the article is that Labor are wreckers who don’t know what they’re tinkering with and that Uncle Tom is required to sort them out.
It’s part of the mantra that whatever Howard did was right and that any challenge to it, or change is therefore wrong. Howard and his supporters, in Milne’s mind, continues to rule from the political grave. Rudd is trying to show that isn’t true.
We got the same thing with the Future Fund debate last year. Howard and Costello (with the help of their urgers in the media) tried to set up the Future Fund as some kind of untouchable national treasure, a beneficient gift to future generations. Well, apart from it just being a pool of money for public servants’ superannuation (and not for the future of all Australians), it was up to Labor, once elected, to decide what they wanted to do with it: continue it on, dip into it, or scrap it altogether. It wasn’t a constitutional fund, requiring a plebiscite to alter in any way. All it required was a simple majority vote in both houses of Parliament, just like any other law.
What I find amusing about this whole thing is that the Fuel Watch idea rests upon the Howard government’s successful constitutional challenge to the corporations power. I always thought at the time that the Work Choices constitutional case, expanding the Commonwealth’s corporations power as it did, would come back to bite the conservatives in the bum. Well, it has, and I for one am enjoying a tiny giggle as I watch them squirm.
If anyone was a “wrecker” in the Constitutional area it was the Liberal Party when they sought to expand the Commonwealth’s powers far beyond what the original drafters of the Constitution had anticipated. Control over prices was several times rejected by referenda over the years. Howard tried to back-door it by whispering sweet-nothings to the High Court. He got his way and Fuel Watch is one of the unintended consequences. Let them swim in it.
The few unincorporated resellers of retail petrol won’t have the slightest effect on Fuel Watch’s operability. they usually undercut the majors. I don’t see why this should change under Fuel Watch, as to overcharge would be tantamount to financial suicide for the unincorporated independents.
{Just who are the Cane Toad’s sources in Japan? }
He doesn’t have any. He’s just repeating the nonsense sprouted by Robb and he doesn’t have any sources either.
It’s passing strange how Coalition Spokespersons can make “ANY” statement, no matter how ridiculous or far fetched, as long as it is an attack on Rudd personally or on any facet of Labor policy, and “virtually “NO” journalist queries the legitimacy of the statement.
How often have we seen a “journalist” say during an interview, “do you have any evidence to support that claim?” “What is it?” Or to say, “that is a load of bunkum!”
Another thing that stands out to a remarkable degree. How often have we seen any positive statements made about what Rudd is doing and how well he is doing his job.
I don’t mind constructive, objective criticism, as this is an essential part of a functional democracy and can improve the standard of decision making and government.
This is totally lacking throughout the commentary we are having dished up to us by the MSM and I for one, are totally sick and tired of it.
Earlier, I read an article from the Washington Post and what a contrast it is to the current Australian media’s rubbish. It was balanced, analytical and showed that the journalist had researched his subject matter.
The fact that it contained no apparent bias, slanted by personal opinion one way or the other by the journalist, made it a pleasure to read and I felt that I had been competently informed of the subject matter without having to “decode” it or try and interpret any “newsworthy” content in between the spin and personal opinion.
The media in this country is a disgrace and and in my opinion is doing untold damage to democracy and Australia and its people who deserve better than this.
They are certainly not doing anything to improve then standard of offering from the current Liberal rabble and the crude, transparent attempts to prop them up by refusing to critically analyze them and act as a defacto opposition in the manner that they are is to the detriment of everyone, no matter what political leaning they support.
scorpio youre spot on. its as if Aussie journalists worry that if they praise Rudd, his popularity will soar even higher, and they need a contest to report on. The hysteria over Fuelwatch and the no-change Newspoll shows how desparate they are
Shame Milne forgot about the Federal Govt’s “Trade and Commerce Powers” under the constitution. “the mutual communings, the negotiations, verbal and by correspondence, the bargain, the transport and the delivery” all come under this Federal Power.
So what is the learned one’s view on this power?
What I have found amazing is the deafening silence coming from the Coalition supporters.
Are they too stupid or too complacent to realise that the current standard of MSM commentary is doing untold damage to their cause.
If the Liberal Party and its operatives are not held to account for the disastrous situation they are nor in and subsequently are forced to modernise, reform and better reflect the needs of the challenging, ever changing world that we now live in, then even if they are able to somehow damage the labor brand enough to get this rabble back into government, how in ever are they going to be able to govern at the level necessary to enable the country to prosper and succeed given the challenges that now confront us.
Climate change, global economic challenges, the ever growing, balance of payment problems and a score more?
The MSM is supporting “mediocrity” at best and that is not good enough for me. How can it be good enough for LNP supporters? Are they living in a bubble or in a fantasy world where everything is wonderful as long as they control the reins of power?
Not in the world that I wish to live in and not the country that I want for my children either.
Paul Keating declined his gong. Said being PM was enough honour, presume Hawke did also.
Bill Kelity union (boo) leader gets same gong as Howard, good to see.
Charles 240
I agree; one of Rudd’s silliest moments. He had sounded so credible when he was explaining about world forces. He’d be better off leaving oil to Tanner or Swan if he’s going to say that.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I went to have a look at the Fuelwatch site, and I reckon it would be brilliant to have it in the eastern states. I can see it would be a means of promoting real competition among the oil majors and indys. A much, much better idea than that of the eunuch’s 5 cents.
Basil @ 273 : The only change to Fuelwatch I would make is that I would allow stations to DROP their advertised price and be able to give notice of the drop in price on the website.
For example if Station A has fuel going for $1.50.9 pl and Station B is $1.51.9 then I would allow station B to log back on and re-adjust the price down to either match Station A or better the lower price.The priviso being that the new reduced price cannot be changed for 48 hours.
It’s not hard to set up.
The problem with allowing them to adjust the price is that they will “play”
it. That is, put in a higher price initially than they need to and then only
adjust downward if they need to. Defeats the purpose.
Rod @ 271 – Hawke was awarded his Companion of the Order of Australia in 1979, nearly 18 months before he even became the member from Wills, much less PM.
Just one from the vault, for everyone to revisit.
The infamous Galaxy Poll of early June 2007 and Chris Ulhmann’s response.
Ulhmann “…….this election is a long way from being won and the people who have been writing the Prime Minister’s obituaries should perhaps take a powder and have a lie down.”
AM – Monday, 4 June , 2007 08:04:00
Reporter: Chris Uhlmann
TONY EASTLEY: On the back of all that there is another poll out today. But this one is a little different. For the first time it shows a significant shift back to the Coalition.
Chief Political Correspondent Chris Uhlmann spent the weekend at the Liberal Party Federal Council meeting and he’s back in the relatively quiet surroundings of Canberra after his big weekend in Sydney. He joins us now on the line.
Chris, good morning. I’m told that this poll is one of the PM’s favourites. What does it show?
CHRIS UHLMANN: Well it shows, Tony, that Labor still has an election winning lead but the Coalition has more than halved that to a gap of just six points. Now, more importantly it shows a lift in the Coalition’s primary vote to 42 per cent. Which is the point at about which they start to become competitive.
But, and look, this is a very big “but”. One of the stories after this election, I believe, will be about opinion polls and how much faith we can put in mid-term polls and I think the answer will be: not much.
About the only thing that we’ve learned from opinion polls so far is that Labor can win this election but this election is a long way from being won and the people who have been writing the Prime Minister’s obituaries should perhaps take a powder and have a lie down.
This will most probably be a very close election and I’ll add one final rider to that. It’ll be an election in two parts: the Coalition will take a big hit on the east coast and in South Australia but in the west it’s a different country and Labor could actually lose votes there and seats.
TONY EASTLEY: At the Federal Council meeting John Howard seemed to hone-in on Labor’s Peter Garrett. Is that likely to be a regular affair?
CHRIS UHLMANN: Yes it will, and it will broaden to include people like Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan as they try and get people to look behind Kevin Rudd and into the faces of the people that are supporting him.
I should note two things though: it’s not Labor’s official policy to have 20 per cent cut in emissions by 2012 and the example that the Prime Minister used about taking all cars off the road and coal-fired power stations to shut down is probably debatable.
But I think you can expect to hear the term “rock-star economics” applied to Peter Garrett before too long.
TONY EASTLEY: Chris, as I mentioned, you were at the council meeting all weekend. Any chit-chat over tea and sandwiches about Liberal leadership?
CHRIS UHLMANN: There certainly was and I think there was some concerned expressed really by the supporters of the Prime Minister that that was going on. I don’t think that there was enormous amount of substance to it. There was a big contrast between the Treasurer and the Prime Minister when they spoke – the Treasurer being much more engaging. I don’t think at this stage there’s any real move on against the Prime Minister.
TONY EASTLEY: Our Chief Political Correspondent Chris Uhlmann in Canberra.
Flaneur @ 275. I understand what you are saying but the thing is that their opening price has to be set for 24 hours.Any changes ( drop in price ) would be effective for 48 hours.
Now with all the stations having to show a price, they won’t be able to play too much because they will lose turnover to the lowest seller. Most of them also have in store shops where a lot of their profit comes from. No-one going in to buy fuel means less profit from their shops.
Under competition laws they won’t be able to collude together to fix a price.
Within a kilometre of where I am in western Sydney there are at least 6 stations and they all have varying prices with most of them hiking the price by between 10 and 15 cents a litre on Wednesday afternoons and then slowly reducing it until it reaches it lowest on Tuesdsays.
I would love the opportunity to be able to sit at home and know with certainty what price I am going to pay and be able able to shop around without the expense of burning fuel while doing it.
Mayo @ 276
Thanks, article was unclear on Hawke.
We about to reach parity. Not AUD/USD but Petrol/Milk.
Chalk up another first for the Ruddster.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23833768-12377,00.html
I still enjoy the novelty of seeing ” the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd”.
If outlets are aware that they can adjust prices down to be competitive with the others then they have no incentive to set a lower competitive price.
In fact it would be better for them to set prices at the upper limit then adjust them down to match others who would be following the same strategy. You would end up with the market operating at the highest end not lowest end of price range.
Now when they bring their prices down to be competitive it has to last 48 hours, this takes us back to the original concept – setting prices to be competitive in tomorrows market. But this gives them the added advantage of trying out a higher price first and then trying to set a competitive one, though I do understand they will be stuck with it for 48 hours while others will have more flexibility.
Probably not much different then than sticking with the original concept of setting a forward price that needs to be competitive or risk losing turnover and thus profit.
Milne as I have said is one of our worst journalists, not quite the worst of the worst but still very low quality in content and writing ability. If there wasn’t a demand from an uncritical right-wing press I doubt he would get a job as a journalist, except in a one horse town.
My 15 year old nephews are smarter and write better than him.
But I don’t think it is journalism that he is doing. He is just uncritically regurgitating anti-Labor trash fed to him. In other words he is simply a conduit of slime with no inherent qualities of his own apart from being the equivalent of a sewer pipe.
{he is simply a conduit of slime with no inherent qualities of his own apart from being the equivalent of a sewer pipe.}
Snap!
Anyone got an e-mail address for Mr. Sewer Pipe?
The quality of some of the postings to this thread explains why William’s blog probably gets more ‘viewers’ than Insiders does.
I have just been looking at the 07 election report from parliament that was linked here a while ago.
Some interesting info.
Just one to lead off with.
Electorate average sizes by population. [My very rough estimated averages cos I didn't work them out exactly.]
STATES
NSW -< 95,000
Vic -95,000
Qld. -90,000
WA -< 90,000
SA -about 98,000
………………………….and the 3 ’special’ places.
Tas -about 70,000
ACT -about 120,000
NT -<60,000
Now in the 5 main populated states thats a bigger variation than I would have expected. I’m from SA, so you may get the drift I’m hinting at.
Should SA go back to its previous number of 12 electorates?
Change the others to stay at 150 seats OR increase the number of seats?
Anyone know how many trips to Japan Robb has made since becoming Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister?
Gary Bruce,
Milne’s email is
milneg@theaustralian.com.au
It’s the same format for all Oz journos surname first name initial etc
The format the ABC uses for other journos is:
surname dot firstname at abc.net.au
So for Barrie Cassidy, you can try the following
cassidy.barrie@abc.net.au
Kina @ 288: You’re most probably correct.
Where I work has no public transport close by…and I work shifts…sometimes day..sometimes afternoon.If I do an afternoon shift then there is NO public Transport at all at the end of the shift so I actually need to drive.
With the way the price can rise or fall by 15 cpl on any given day I want the ability to know for certain what is the cheapest price available on any given day is without wasting more fuel just driving around to find it.
I understand the debate and our need to reduce the dependence on fossil fuels. But that comes at a cost. I wish I had the ability to switch to a hybrid or other fuel efficient or fuel saving car. Now even with a rebate for LPG conversion you have to have the finances to be able to pay upfront. If you have a mortgage, and I certainly do, it’s harder when rates rise 10 times in a row and take another $600-$700 per month extra OUT of your budget. Any extra savings get eaten away very quickly. Certainly makes it harder to save.
Thanks Aristotle. I think these people need to be reminded of their responsibilities as a journalist, and I use the term loosely.
294 Steve – Having googled Robb trip Japan I would sat nil, zip, zilch.
GB, I’d say he had clear air on the ABC last night because both Rudd and Stephen Smith would probably be overseas. It is a common trick of the Queensland Opposition to make mischief in rural areas while cabinet is sitting on Mondays.
When Robb starts naming and quoting Japanese government officials backing his claims then I may start believing him. So far he has produced nothing and the MSM have lapped it up.
Scorpio#287
Another story on Kev’s Hiroshima visit. Is it just me or does the mayor seem pretty pleased with our Kev? nah that can’t be right, surely, he soured relations, Japan hates us blah blah blah
“Hiroshima Mayor Tadatoshi Akiba told Rudd he was the first serving western leader to visit the exhibition, which includes wax dummies of burning people, pictures of horribly maimed victims and a photograph of the shadow of a person vaporised in the blast.”
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/1838414
sad ain’t it when we need to read NZ coverage for an unbiazed view.
Gary,
Whenever you wish to write to one of the reptiles, it’s always handy to remind them of what good journos actually do. You can start with Ed Murrow:
“Mainstream historians consider him among journalism’s greatest figures; he was noted for honesty and integrity in delivering the news.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_R._Murrow
If he isn’t enough, you can add Walter Cronkite:
“the most trusted man in America,” because of his professional experience and kindly demeanor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Cronkite
And if he/she’s a real reptile of Jurassic proportions, then throw in Seymour Hersch to clinch it:
Hersh received the 2004 George Polk Award for Magazine Reporting given annually by Long Island University to honor contributions to journalistic integrity and investigative reporting. This was his fifth George Polk Award, the first one being a Special Award given to him in 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersch
Rx 292
‘The quality of some of the postings to this thread explains why William’s blog probably gets more ‘viewers’ than Insiders does. ‘
Spot on!
It’s worse than sad. It’s blooming disgusting and running true to form on my previous post on the subject.
How long can the opposition keep getting away with the “its spin” line? They didn’t “spin” when in government? Really?
Pritam at 304, its sites like this that help me survive the past 18 months of getting angry at the mostly-idiotic MSM
One causality of the expanding internet as a source of news and discussion is the reputation of hitherto ‘respected’ journalists. pre-internet if you were a journalist at a MSM establishment you gained some sort of grudging respect simply because the real facts and context wouldn’t be fully known to the general public, they had journalists only to rely on and, in the past a diversity of media ownership.
Now information flows much quicker and gets a variety of feed back much quicker. Murdoch journalists and other are exposed, their dishonesty more easily revealed and available to be known to the general public.
SO the choice for partisan journalists is to either reform or to bear the reputation and continue on their way. For some opinion is up for sale to the MSM boss, others will be intent on prosecuting their job to favour their partisan choice regardless of truth and honesty.
None of the partisan journalist enjoy respect and as time goes on they will appear not much more credible than a red faced supporter screaming from the sidelines at a footy match. AND so to the paper/TV they come from.
At the moment they justify and get away with their dishonesty by calling it Opinion.
If the source of people’s news and opinion becomes more and more the net the public may again get the benefit of being exposed to a range of views.
The more prevalent the notion that all MSM is inherently bias and dishonest becomes the less effect their partisan campaigns will have.
I think the better message to get out to the public is not that such and such an item is ant-this, but that the MSM has its own agenda and partisan plans that causes it to try and manipulate public opinion with ‘dishonest’ reporting. In particular that murdoch papers generally pursue an anti-labor message and so on.
People should be encouraged more to use the net to find information on news and current affair.
I wonder who commissioned and paid for this poll.
{More than 50 per cent of Australians believe they have become worse off financially since the Rudd government swept to power last November, a new survey shows.
An online poll conducted last month by mortgage brokers Loan Market and X Inc Finance Group found just 17 per cent of respondents felt their financial position had improved since Labor returned to power after 11 years in Opposition.
Some 54 per cent of respondents believed things were worse than before Kevin Rudd became Prime Minister last November.
A further 29 per cent said there had been no change in their financial circumstances since the election.}
http://news.smh.com.au/business/most-aussies-say-theyre-now-worse-off-20080609-2ns1.html
I found this statement a bit strange though.
{”Australia had enjoyed a strong domestic economy, employment growth and relatively low interest rates for around a decade under the previous coalition government,” she said.
“But the uncertain global economic situation, triggered by the sub-prime lending crisis in the United States, and the Reserve Bank of Australian attempts to tackle rising inflation by twice raising official rates this year have changed the domestic economic climate considerably.”}
Wasn’t the sub-prime crisis well underway early last year and hadn’t we had about 10 consecutive interest rate rises under the previous government.
No, must have missed that. Looks as though it’s all the result of that nasty Rudd Labor government. Incompetent lot they are!
I wonder how Howard would have reacted to this.
{Japanese Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda is expected to unveil a plan to force industry to cut carbon emissions in a bid to step up the fight against global warming despite resistance from the business community.
In a speech scheduled later in the day at the Japan National Press Club, Fukuda will likely announce a self-imposed target of cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 60 to 80 per cent by 2050, according to media reports.
He is expected to support a so-called “cap-and-trade” system which would require major businesses to reduce carbon emissions while creating an economic incentive by allowing the trade of emissions credits.
Fukuda’s announcement is aimed at showing his determination in the global battle against climate change before he hosts the July 7-9 G8 summit, where global warming will be a key issue.}
http://news.smh.com.au/world/japan-pm-set-to-unveil-action-on-climate-20080609-2nv7.html
Kevin Rudd should get a bit of an idea how the vested interest, large emitters here will react following the Garnaut Report recommendations after seeing what happens in Japan.
Have loook at http://www.xinc.net.au/ the online poll is 3 questions. Hardly scientific – who would go to this website?
What were the questions they asked last month?
So 54% of people looking for a mortgage broker on this site who bothered to click on “Your Say” think they are worse off.
So what.
Why is the SMH even publishing this, oh thats right they got it of the AAP wire. 
Lazy bastards.
Why would mortgage brokers Loan Market and X Inc Finance Group commission such a poll? AND why tie the questions to the change of government instead of time frame if it was intended for business decision making?
The answers might be found in looking at who owns and runs these companies.
They commissioned the poll because quite obviously given international events and oil price increases they would get a negative result and, they tied questions to the changed of government so fault could be implied, why else?
Channel 9 simply uncritically posts the story.
Australia’s ‘Green Mafia’ will do all it can to halt any real policy from Labor and attempt to gain the most windfalls they can from the process.
The only way to make these type of companies behave in an honest way is to create personal penalties. That way owners and managers cant just depend on the company to pay fines but themselves face prison or fines. It can be strategically beneficial for companies to break the law when the gain is greater than the penalty.
Nothing would shut the green mafia up and amend their ways more quickly than if they risked a few years in prison themselves for unlawful practices thus rorting any system put in place wont be an option for them.
Landeryou has something on the Tele’s Della Bosca error.
http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/06/defamation-diner-false-stat-decs.html
The SMH should go a row too.
I am going to disagree with some of the pollbludgers on this one.
I honestly think Insiders had been fair and balanced so far this year until somebody posted a list of all the guests who had been on the show for the year two weeks ago claiming a bias towards the coalition.
It’s as if those behind the show have said “stuff you” and now (over the last two weeks) we have had bias.
How dare the Prime Minister go to Japan and say that the world should be free of nuclear weapons. The gall of the man.
To think that different nations could co-exist in a peaceful manner on this planet? It’s simply outrageous that is!
I honestly have the solution for the MSM who seem unable discredit the Prime Minister in any way.
They should try to recruit Mark Latham for the Liberal Party!
Mark Latham is the man, If Latham can’t, no one can.
Another “Beat Up” by Their ABC”, quoting the Shadow Minister For Google
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/09/2269385.htm?section=justin
Piers Says:
June 8th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
“My track record would not indicate a career spent flogging dead horses. My advice to you is don’t speak too soon about matters you know nothing about.”
This is from the man that pushed for a Liberal win; and is now trying to make a bunch of right wing nutters competitive.
It really is what it has come down to, labor against the Canberra press gallery. If they keep this up for months and labor continues to be ahead in the polls, what happens then.
It is already the case that if you interested n politics you read the comments and the blogs if you want to know what is going on, and take what is written by the press gallery with a grain of salt. If the press gallery continue writing rubbish the trend can only continue.
ABC 7 pm news couldn’t find fault with Kev & Therese in Japan so they decided to attack him for not making up his mind if he was going to meet the Dali Lama or if he was going to the opening of the olyimics.
They had old news footage of the Rodent at the Sydney games being tossed in the air by atheletes (throw up!!! pity they hadn’ta dropped the silly old c**t) and carping quotes from Robb saying Kev should go to the opening and why is he dithering and to end their anti Government diatribe words to the effect that the dithering was having a negative effect on our atheletes.
Their news is as bad as Insiders!
Stuff ‘em all!
Anyway how cute are Therese and Kev holding hands like a pair of lovebirds wherever they go. And catching the train with all the common folk and looking like they were really enjoying themselves.
Frank
you beat me to it
pity they hadn’ta dropped the silly old c**t
I’m pretty sure you’re allowed to say ‘coot’ on this site.
lol, not coot … un instead of oo
I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you. The thought never crossed my mind.
Well, not too many times.
Just Me @323
classic
I can’t complain to C7. because I’ll get no reply (I’m a Howard Hater).Before I watch ABC News at 7.00PM,too fill in time I sometimes watch ‘Todaytonight’.Why is it that it is always a story about poor old struggling pensioners.I’m on a Pension (sole income),paying rent (not in a Commission home),yet I don’t struggle.It’s about time a lot of Pensioners got out and did a bit of walking instead of whinging about the price of petrol.And as far as Grocery Prices go,I shop around for the cheapest,and save a few pennys.They even had ‘call me Brenden’ on tonight.
Call me an insensivite ba$tard, but I’ve just been watching Australian Story on ABC TV about some Iron Woman of 23 (Candace Someone-or-Other) who’s been allegedly pilliored in the Press.
Ah ha! (methinks) more rabid tabloid mob behavior, this time accosting a young and beautiful Aussie gel who just wants to do well in her chosen field.
I should have switched off when I heard her say, after yet another of the seemingly infinite series of Iron Woman qualifiers conducted around the country in summertime, “I dug deep.” I really should have swapped for Judging Amy (my wide’s favourite) on the WWWW Channel when a little later on she intoned, “Competing at Maroubra – I come from there – is the nearest thing I can think of to Heaven. Imagine your office being the beach!”
But I didn’t.
So… on I watched. Apparently this little moppet at 14 joined the “seniors” training squad. By the time she was 18 or so she’d started to fall behind her PBs (or whatever they call them). This made snookums a tad depressed. So she started out annoying the older girls (not detailed how) and it all ended in her throwing a punch at one of them. Due to the fact she was dating some dopey League star, this made the Dailt Telegraph gossip pages.
I felt a few pangs of sympathy for her at this point, but then when her Mum (”her best friend in the world”) started breaking down on camera when she reported, “One day Candace rang us and said ‘Mum, I’m on the side of the road and I’m crying’.”, that was it for this nasty, grumpy old man.
At that point I thought to myself, “Poor diddums. What about the bloody women in China who’ve lost their children? What about Darfur? What about Iraq.. all places where whole families disappear overnight and no-one gets the blame. In the case of Iraq the Yank soldiers are acquitted of massacring an entire town because some smart lawyer did a deal with the prosecutor.”
What about the poor buggers with cancer, or who’ve lost their homes or their livliehoods. What about the poor fools who voted Liberal and still think they’re in with a chance at the next election?
Caroline Jones did nothing to help, as when she introduced the segment she was almost in tears herself (although still sufficiently self-possessed not to turn sideways to the camera).
This parading of sport and sports heroes, this blind uncritical love of the damn beach (as if that’s all anyone would want), this pap, this garbage put out by the ABC as being of “human interest” (you may be able to tell) is getting on BB’s goat.
Don Bradman as part of the citizenship test. Howard in Barbados for the cricket. The free-to-air stations getting, gratis, new standard definition broadcast stations so they can put even more sport to air. Foxtel in general. Sport in particular all day, seemingly every bloody day on ABC radio. And now we have a whole half-hour about some 20-something year old whyo got a bit uppity with ther betters and then was put firmly in her place.
Ultimately, this twirp gets a whole show to herself because she cried on the side of the road and whinged to her mum about it?
Call me callous. Call me an unfeeling sociopath. But this is not a suitable subject for our airwaves, particularly the airwaves we pay for.
Candace darling: GET A LIFE!
ABC: DO something useful with our money besides put this rubbish to air and playing gotcha with the new government.
End of rant.
(my wide’s favourite)
Umm, Freudian slip?
Eddie at 327, its amazing how the pensioners are now apparently so worse off now that Rudd is in power. He has done nothing to cut their pensions or allowances. Now Im not saying pensioners hae it easy but they shouldnt pretend their hardship started with the change if govt
Just me @ 329: It was so wide it went to a freudian 2nd slip.!
Vera 321, now lets see, Rudd has too many ideas, works too hard and expects public servants to work hard. Despite working too hard he hasnt been to Japan and they are very angry because Andrew Robb says so, Now he hasnt decided about the Olympics. Vote the man out I say!!
Is Robb going to the olympics and if so who is paying for his ticket is what I want to know after his performance in Parliament earlier this year? I would also be interested to know where he has travelled so far as shadow Foreign Affairs Minister and who is financing his travel so far?
Andrew @ 330: My dad is 80, on the pension and he said the same thing. Why blame a new govt for something that is the cause of the previous one. He does what Eddie @ 327 suggested and that is he shops around. The MSM are on a beat up crusade this year and it seems the govt are and MR Rudd are the targets
Well, Robb seems to have settled in as Chief armchair critic of Rudd, Smith and Foreign Affairs. Nothing in his press releases of him going anywhere or doing anything of significance on the world stage.
http://www.andrewrobb.com.au/news/Default.asp?sectionid=5
He does it all by using Google
I put the abundance of rubbish on the ABC down to Howard. No, seriously. The TV pap described by BB is run because it is cheap. Same with radio sport. Cheap to produce, and it fills hours and hours of airtime. Howard was mean with their funding (though, to be fair, all governments are/have been accused of the same thing), forcing them to these humiliating degrees of austerity.
Then, before leaving, he stacked the Board with sycophant-recruiting, agenda-running neocons, meaning we get cheap and partisan crap like Insiders.
Insult on injury.
He certainly doesn’t have the appetite for travel that Dolly Downer displayed, Frank.
Robb is actually a bit of turn off when he appears on TV, he has to take care not to seem spiteful which can seem to be his underlying motivation.
I can’t believe he is shadow minister for anything and it just shows how shallow the Liberal barrel is. He sometimes, like Downer, can do more harm for their side than good.
His effort with Google was disgraceful and deliberate and he should have lambasted long and hard by the media – except that we lacked a non-Howard media at the time.
337 Rx
It’s not just because it’s cheap. It’s the commodofication of everything – a nice little thread of that title existed over at Lavartus a while ago.
It’s the idea that an economic measure of something trounces all others. It’s not just the ABC – it’s a lot of things in Australia.
True – it’s not just Australia, but it does please me no end when I travel O/S and find people doing things where cost is a long way from the top of the priority list. This does not mean being over budget – it just means there’s a commitment to achieve something, not something for a price.
Economic rationalism is costing this country it’s soul.
It has infuriated me listening to the rodent crap on about values when he never understood the first thing about what they are or what drives them.
Bradman on the citizenship test is a case in point. It would be nice to think that potential citizens might be interested in Australian history, but a test is no way to trigger it. The controversy in fact it illustrates that potential citizens are not interested in Australian history. That is a failure in values that is not just limited to potential immigrants either.
Surely we might be reaching the point, after 3.5 million years of evolution (give or take), that it might be more important to know who we are, as opposed to counting how much we’ve got.
The frivolousness of the present ABC is fuelling the latter at the cost of the former.
I am a bit surprised there has been little comment in the MSM about the hypocrisy that Government has displayed about limiting emmisions yet encouraging OPEC to increase oil exports. There is at the moment an incredibly juvenile debate in Australia about the causes and effects of high petroleum prices. And this Government seems incapable of defining the debate in it’s own terms. What seems obvious is that both Federal and in particular state Governments should be strongly encouraging public transportation to mitigate private petrol demand. (and also improving our energy imports). Instead the whole debate seems to revolve around 5c discounts to petrol.
The Japanese seem to have the right idea about trying to limit demand. You would think the major item on Rudd’s agenda would be harmonising Japanese-Australian cap & trade carbon trading.
BTW I see a real lack of critical comment and thinking about Government decisions, actions and gestures within this forum. As a long time lurker and sometimes commentator it is disapointing that Pollbludgers has descended into a turgid forum full of backslapping and acceptance of the Status Quo. It wasn’t always like this.
The last time I heard of Andrew Robb being in Japan was way back when he was head of the NFF but his junkets of the past do not seem to be a part of his Parliamentary biography any longer.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=FU4
Compare Robb’s overseas trips as an MP with Truss.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=GT4
Onimod, #340
I tend to think of the rodent as having waged an ideological crusade against the Australian way of life.
Take the often-touted Australian values (though they are of course not unique to Australia) of mateship and the fair go. Both were assaulted with WorkChoices. The “fair go” was the most immediately obvious casualty. But the ideal of mateship in the workplace took a deliberate hit too, as his shitty laws pitted employer against employee, employee against employee, with distrust all round and at all levels.
His approaches to refugees, his obscene upper-class welfare, privatisation (admittedly he was not the first cab off that rank), funding decline of universities, his constant divide-and-conquer culture wars – all struck hard into the, as you put it, the soul of Australian-ness.
Worse, he wasn’t even original. He sourced most of his, ahem, economic ideas from Thatcher and Reagan, and his dirty style of politics from American neocons including Karl Rove. Alien attitudes rudely injected into the veins of Australia.
This observation always does it for me: Economic rationalists know the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
341 zedder
I agrees with you that the government should be talking about limiting oil demand rather than encouraging greater production, but that’s a long term view that ignores the political reality of now. The Rudd government will have no long term impact if they are unable to implement emissions trading because of the short term political pain. We’re not the only country on the brink of large scale emissions trading and demand reduction.
Just have a think for a sec, if you were big oil, on how you might delay or railroad that happening….That’s right – a price spike would do it, wouldn’t it?
The idea that the price of oil is supply-demand controlled has been blown out of the water this year. The world has finally come to the view that oil is finite. The current pricing system is NOT designed on this basis. I’m not stupid enough to predict what might happen, but I do believe it’ll be a wild ride from here.
I suspect the government’s tactic is to get the price of oil down long enough to get a scheme implemented that encourages demand reduction locally, and shifts the cost burden on to larger consumers rather than smaller. Of course the large consumers also have more organised lobbying power than the smaller, whom they will try and divide into as many minorities as possible.
Of course if this had happened even 5 years ago I suspect it’d be a non-issue now, and the longer we leave it now the greater the pain. Big oil will be doing everything it can to use that pain as a discouragement.
Oh – and having a go at the posters here for having a particular view different to yours, illustrates your lack of input rather, than having anything constructively critical to add. Democracy has always been about being a participating citizen. A whinger on the sidelines adds nothing to the democracy.
All of us can learn from each other, but only if all of us engage.
I’ll be looking forward to your contributions to balance the debate!
Rx,
I disagree – Workchoices re-inforced the notion of a fair go – it said that if you are prepared to do a decent hours work for a little bit less than the union enforced wage level, then you would could have a job.
The power to do something cheaper than your fellow human being is a liberating thing….check it out …if you are unemployed you might like it
Reading the posts on Andrew Robb. The Liberals seem to be experts at making trouble/wedging out of trivia- often personal trivia eg “Jeeves”. They do not seem to say a word about anything of any importance, at least anything that makes sense. Media lap it up as it is probably easy for them to understand, especially shows like Today-Tonight, Current Affairs but also News Reports. I mean this besides the present anti Rudd slant.
I wonder if this is the reason the Liberal Party are at each other’s throats all the time eg Victoria, NSW, Qld, WA and I don’t know about Tas or SA. Also even in their own Fed party ie Turnball/Nelson, Costello. I mean this besides the idealogical differences in their party.
Seem to be a small minded lot. It is more like backyard gossip than anything.
Would be quite premature to start attacking the Rudd government over action or inaction after 6 months. You would really need to wait at least two years to get the real and whole picture.
BTW I wonder what the nature of the Japanese media is and if their government can expect to get support, neutral or big oil attacks etc on their policy.
Rudd Labor do need to put in a range of policy but their difficulty is having to fight the Green Mafia, the MSM and Liberal party over a likely coordinated misinformation campaign. There is little point in going all the way upfront only to be voted out then have everything reversed as it would be – the murdoch guys and Liberal party are not believers in GW/CC or in really doing anything about it. So as we are talking about the future of the planet I guess Rudd is entitled to play this strategically.
Criticism of the MSM is well deserved and of the previous govt well deserved.
Rudd Labor has been criticised here over its handling of the Fuelwatch issue.
“..John Howard was an enthusiastic captive of the carbon lobby. In recent times, however, inaction by Australia has become much harder, so our greenhouse mafia have had to come up with a more sophisticated approach that focusses on delaying emission cuts by their sectors.”
“Oh, and if you needed any proof that the greenhouse mafia is still kicking just as strongly as ever, have a look at Matt Warren’s latest greenhouse mafia-friendly piece in The Australian. Surprise, surprise! The oil and gas industry (through APPEA) has commissioned polluter consultant of choice (CRA International) to do a paper saying Labor’s MRET will cost $1.5 billion and hammer consumers, then Warren gets the scoop on the story.”
http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080319-Reading-the-fine-print-on-emissions-trading.html?CurrentDate=21+%2F+05+%2F+2008
little bit less? $90/week is not little!
344 Rx
I agree to an extent, but I believe it was because he was a stupid man, not because he was necessarily malevolent. Even worse is that he had an entire party organisation that let him do it. They either collectively turned a blind eye, or are similarly perspectiveless in their understanding of Australia and it’s place in the world.
I believe your final observation is abso-F’ing-lutely spot on.
From a cultural point of view I have a thesis that the 2000 Olympics is one of the major things that prolonged the rodent era – it became socially and culturally entwined with the time of Howard by luck. Without it, I think the cultural disenfranchisement of 2007 would have occurred much sooner.
346 Mr Squiggle – LOL. Good one. There have been some very funny comments on here tonight but this takes the cake. Well done.
Mr Squiggle @ 346:
WorkChoices MKI was designed to strip away conditions, take away penalty rates and lower wages. It was a govt sponsored attempt to allow business to run sweatshops.
Go and ask all those poor folks that got shafted by WorkChoices on the take it or leave it AWA’s BEFORE the safety net was introduced and how they are coping with increasing fuel, food, and ten rate rises in a row.
And if WorkChoices was so fair why the change.? Joe Hockey on Four Corners after the election admitted that some MINISTERS in Cabinet did not understand the full effects of the legislation they passed.
Mr Squiggle 346 -
The power to do something cheaper than your fellow human being is a liberating thing
Yeah, sure. I need someone to paint my house. How cheaply can you do it? Hell, why not become really liberated and pay me for the privilege!
Mr Squiggle,
A reverse auction on pay and conditions is your idea of a “fair go”?
Fair for who, the person who bids lowest? The less he earns, the fairer for him? Fairer for him because he bided the cheapest while others miss out because they didn’t bid low enough?
I say it was designed “fair” to the employer only. While being calculatedly unjust to every employee compelled to either bid themselves into penury, or have nothing.
The race to the bottom (I believe) was Howard’s Third World economic ideal. Third World workplaces, with Third World pay and conditions and Third World workplace safety standards.
With an entrenched 19th-century Master-and-Servant style of executive tyranny to boot.
It was mockingly nicknamed SerfChoices for a number of excellent reasons.
Thank god the majority of Australians have a little bit more moral fibre than Squiggle, and that’s about all we need to say – let’s not rehash Workchoices.
Despite all the advertising, the power of encumbancy and a cult of personality not seen in Australia for decades, it wasn’t enough to cover the smell of rotting prawns on Boxing Day.
Australia made it’s choice – let’s move on.
353
MayoFeral
He he.
Forget about the price of oil and global warming. The SA version of Barcelona Tonight have solved the problem. Just add a gizmo that turns water into hydrogen by hydrolysis and feed it into the engine air intake. According to their ultra lo-tech, completely unverified test, a car fitted with this device used only a quarter of the petrol of the control over 100km, disproving a fundamental law of physics in the process. They even had a Melbourne professor verify that hydrogen was the fuel of the future though his introduction was designed to make you believe he was actually endorsing the gizmo. I assume this male bovine excreta won’t be aired in Victoria so the poor bugger may never know how he’s been used.
And they have the hide to call others shonks!!
Bugger….that should have been ‘electrolysis’ not ‘hydrolysis’
Cool, so I can fill my tank with water now.
MayoFeral @ 358: There is available on the net a pdf guide for building exactly what those guys did. Now I have to admit that I have a copy. Downloaded out of curiosity.
Here is a link…
http://www.inethouse.info/user/bahalaka/2008/05/26/run_your_car_with_water/
There is a very funny statement left in the comments section about it.
Andrew Robb is a tool! So now Rudd should be going to China for the Olympics?
Yes Squiggle, well done, who would ever have thought of the concept that ‘work makes us free’? You are one of the original thinkers. Godwin would be proud of you for losing the argument so subtly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Steve, see also Troll,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
might be apt for Mr Sqiggle!
sondeo @ 360 – Try it by all means, but the is no such thing as a free lunch. Alternators become harder to turn when they are charging and thus use more power which means more fuel. Give the inefficiencies inherent in electrolysis and power generation you end up using much more petrol, not less.
BTW-one clue the TT is bull is the claim that the blokes in the story blew up their shed with the humongous quantities of hydrogen they produced. Hydrogen doesn’t explode, as the Hindenburg disaster proved beyond doubt.
” Hydrogen doesn’t explode, as the Hindenburg disaster proved beyond doubt.” How did it prove that?
The sad thing is I believe Mr Squiggle@346 actually believes that. It’s a good reminder of why the Liberal Party are not yet ready to govern.
The worst-case event resulting from release of all forms of hydrogen
into the ambient environment is mixing of the hydrogen with an
oxidizer (usually air), reaching detonable concentrations, and
subsequent ignition producing a detonation of the mixture. The positive buoyancy and rapid molecular diffusion of GH2 means that any
release will quickly mix with the surrounding gases. Rapid
vaporization occurs and subsequent mixing with the surrounding gases
can lead to a detonable mixture if LH2 or SLH2 leaks. Should a
detonation occur, the resulting reaction zone is a shock wave and the
accompanying blast wave has much greater potential for causing
personnel injury or equipment damage.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/canceled/871916.pdf
Hydrogen mixed with air can explode.
357: That include salt water? Otherwise its just replacing one problem with another.
I note the Della Bosca “scandal” has become Rudd’s problem as far as the Daily Morongraph is concerned.
Now Rudd’s being criticised for having grand plans. Am I missing something here?
I believe they found that the Hindenburg fire was actually caused by combustion of the paint used on the zeppelin’s exterior, not the Hydrogen.
MayoFeral @364: I have no intentions of trying it. ! I found the link about a month ago and was curious as to how it would work. Then along comes Barcelona Tonight with a story on the very same thing.
At last! Phillip Coorey in the SMH is finally writing something that calls the Coalition to account for the current flood of rhetoric surrounding Rudd’s Japan visit.
{The Opposition at home has been ramping up the attacks on Rudd’s handling of Japan, but to the point senior officials in Government believe could harm the relationship.
Foreign affairs is Rudd’s great strength, and the Government can see why the Opposition, believing it has an opening, is trying to smash on through. However, deeper down is a concern the Opposition’s shrill rhetoric is being reported in the region and, said one official, “words are bullets”.}
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bold-move-in-kevins-nuclear-diplomacy/2008/06/09/1212863546340.html
Phillip Coorey? Gee, it was pretty grudging praise. Unsourced gossip mainly.
#371
From a look around the web the paint theory is highly contentious (e.g., according to Wiki, Mythbusters debunked it). Anyway, however the fire started it would have ignited the hydrogen unless the cells holding it could withstand the heat without rupturing. The hydrogen would not have exploded because there is no oxygen until the hydrogen escapes into the air, so it would have just burned as it escaped. But a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen or air would certainly produce a big explosion if ignited.
“For all the talk at home about Rudd snubbing Japan, Fukuda is far more preoccupied with his own survival at the moment. Wednesday’s Senate motion of no-confidence in him is exercising his mind more than any visit by the Australian Prime Minister.”
Wonder if Robb, Emo Man & Mesmeralda read that?
My email to Gary Morgan
Mr Morgan,
I am very disturbed by the partisan nature of your commentary on the latest
63/37 federal poll. Your comments:
“The Rudd Government needs to “wake up” to the economic difficulties facing
Australians and avoid repeating those mistakes or we will have a “recession
we don’t have to have!.”
are very difficult to reconcile with a poll that shows the coalition would
be left with 12 seats.
I thought you were a pollster rather than a commentator, and if youre going
to commentate, at least reflect the polls in some rational way
His response:
Thank you for your interest.
I always split comment from the poll result – as I did.
The reason the ALP is so far in front is due to the LNP Opposition. The poll vote will change very quickly – as was the case with Howard.
Rudd was elected because what I said in my letter to Shaun Carney – the LNP Govt was out of touch.
Letter to Shaun Carney, The Age – Separate Spin from Facts & Policy – The ALP Government Needs to get on with Governing or be a One Term Government!
——————————————————————————–
Australia : Paper No. 20080601 : June 3, 2008
Letter from Gary Morgan , Executive Chairman, Roy Morgan Research in response to an article in the Saturday Age – “Forgotten Themes” by Shaun Carney, Associate Editor regarding the ALP’s use of “Spin” rather than “Facts” and “Strong Policy”. Full Article ( PDF, Size: 35KB)
It is so important that the Rudd Government realises that Australia will be in a recession soon unless major changes are made on the “business” front. It would be a shame as the ALP Govt needs to be given a fair go.
The key question to watch is: ” Australia is heading in the right direction”, 49.5% (down 3.5%), while 30% (down 1.5%) of electors believe ” Australia is heading in the wrong direction”.
Yours sincerely
Gary Morgan
So there you have it “the poll vote will change very quickly” according to Morgan. So now he is a predictor instead of a pollster. Very interesting
I stand corrected on the explosive properties of hydrogen. I was told long ago that it was very difficult, bordering on impossible to create the right conditions to get it to explode.
#377
Morgan’s response also undermines his polls to some extent. If polls are going to change quickly then the most recent polls cannot be used as predictors, and if they can’t be used for that then what good are they? Parties make decisions, such as change leaders, on the basis that current polls are some indication of the vote at the next election.
Scorpio at 373, the huge problem with the Opposition is that in their desparation they OVERREACT to everything. The Japan issue is entirely of their making aided by the OO. They would be better off working on their alternative policies than reacing hysterically to things like Japan, Fuelwatch etc. Obviously, the media need to life their game, but we’ve know that for years. Fancy reporting on so-called displeasure in Japan without one source or shred of evidence except the shadow foreign ministers thoughts
It can get to a point where the dishonest spining of information by the MSM can end up being detrimental to the health of the country. By giving favour and support to one side of a debate regardless of quality they fail to address the truth of what is the real good and bad of policy.
Robb’s mindless attacks on Rudd does no good for the Liberal’s reputation overseas as it may seem they don’t support the ideals that Rudd Labor espouses. Rudd/Australia seems to have developed some good o/s credentials and respect thus the Liberal party will be viewed with concern o/s.
Countries will be mindful of the Liberals close association with Bush, Republican neocons and their attack on Obama and the Democrats. They thus continue to reinforce this negative image.
Can anyone imagine someone as incompetent as Robb as Foreign Minister?
Youre spot on Triton. Its like Morgan is hoping and wishing the polls will change. My reply to Morgan:
thanks for your reply.
i find your responses The reason the ALP is so far in front is due to the LNP Opposition and The poll vote will change very quickly – as was the case with Howard intriguing. How do you know the poll vote will hcange quickly? What is this based on? What about Rudd’s popularity- it was there from before he got into government, so you cant just blame the current opposition.
My point is essentially- I find your comments quite negative about a government that’s ahead 63/37. Telling a government in this position (almost a Morgan record) that they have to wake up is astounding, and putting a twist on the Keating phrase looks like a desparate attempt to link the two governments. The economy was struggling before Rudd won office, and Rudd and Swan have been very open about and aware of the challenges.
The bottom line is that your comments read like Opposition spin. And I cant believe that you would have made such comments if a similar poll had Howard 63/37 ahead. I think its obvious that some pollsters report whilst others report and spin.
PM announces Toyota to build Hybrid car in Australia:
http://business.smh.com.au/toyota-takes-hybrid-approach-20080610-2o50.html
Quote:”Grants from the $500 million green car fund could be made available before its 2011 start date to speed up production of an Australian hybrid car, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says.”
Maybe the other manufacturers will jump on board as well.? If the Aust car industry wants to survive into the future it has to embrace these sorts of initiatives.
The media can hound PM Rudd all they like over the cost of fuel but he is going to show them up in terms of defining a policy and then putting it into action. Something that was lacking in the previous administration.
Kina, I just wonder whether Rudd is going to have a go at the MSM sooner rather than later. Fuelwatch, the so-called end of the honeymoon and now Japan must be surely testing his patience.
I understood that the present Japanese regime wasn’t expected to last long and we’re flat out with domestic problems. Hardly the time to be forging long term agenda.
I wonder if Robb could find that out on google?
Obviousl he’s been there to get first hand knowledge hasn’t he? I mean, a flight to Japan wouldn’t stretch his friends in business to far would it?
The media introducing their bulletin with ‘Rudd’s trip to Japan to patch up relations’ is frankly laughable. I’ve heard everyone except Michael Usher say it, including SBS.
Oh, and Mr Morgan doesn’t do much to dispel any concern that’s he’s a bit of a simpleton there does he?
Dont forget onimod that Piers Ackerman spoke to a Japanese person on Sunday morning and apparantly they were very unhappy about Rudd. What a joke
Onimod, I say Morgan is more partisan than simpleton but I get your point
Andrew Says: @ 380,
{the huge problem with the Opposition is that in their desparation they OVERREACT to everything. }
Or come out with petty, irrelevant nonsense such as this by Tony Abbott in today’s OZ.
{After six months in government, one thing that Kevin Rudd clearly doesn’t do well is parliamentary oratory. Because he takes so long to make largely meaningless points, he runs the risk of not being listened to.
Last Thursday, for instance, the Prime Minister interrupted the passage of allegedly urgent bills to deliver a formal statement to mark World Environment Day. Reading a prepared text, he actually used the cliche “when all is said and done”. According to the prime ministerial speechwriter, “Petrol is expensive. It takes a big chunk out of household budgets. It adds to the pressure on working families. And it is not a new problem.” The parliament hardly needed to hear this statement of the bleeding obvious but at least it was intelligible, unlike his later unscripted answer to a query from his own side. }
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/yoursay/index.php/theaustralian/comments/wise_words_of_a_prime_gibberer/
Surely the Opposition have more worthwhile things to do such as reforming their party structure, develop comprehensive policies which engage the numerous challenges facing the nation now and into the future.
MSM outlets such as the OZ are demonstrating just how out of touch and irrelevant they have become in the current political climate and articles such as this are a classic example.
I can’t even begin to contemplate what audience they are targeting with this dribble and what is the rationale behind it. What are they trying to achieve? What direction are they trying to lead this unknown target audience towards?
{Piers Ackerman spoke to a Japanese person on Sunday morning }
Actually, he said a “Japanese speaking person”.
This imaginary character if they exist at all, may not in fact even be Japanese.
I have more than grave doubts that any such person exists at all and why should the “opinion” of a Japanese “speaking” person carry any relevance or credibility anyway.
It really just goes to show that Pies sprukings should be treated with the due respect they deserve. ie Totally ignored by any remotely intelligent being.
So unhappy that they’re going to build hybrid cars here. Rudd must go!!!
Piers ‘cultural attaché’ Ackerman – what a joke
387 Andrew – a partisan without credible reason is a simpleton in my book.
A rusted-on to either party at present is a bit dangerous at present – a good argument could be made that both parties have left their true rusted-on base behind at present. The difference is that the ALP has seemingly dragged theirs with them a bit more than the LP. I guess rusted-on greens are pretty much still in the zone.
It’s amazing how pies could interpret the current Japanese government attitude towards Australia from “would you like soy sauce and ginger with that?”
Scorpio389
Would that imaginary character that appears to Piers be like the one that was on the news last night with his face covered saying he saw Della Bosca abuse staff in Gosford?
What a joke that was, Chris Harcher’s (NSW Lib MP)
got gremlins in my computer! wasn’t finished
this is what i was talking about
“THE man who countersigned statutory declarations accusing John Della Bosca and Belinda Neal of abusing and threatening staff at Iguana Joe’s is a Liberal Party staffer and former One Nation candidate.
Christopher Edward Francis Spence, who witnessed all six declarations from staff, works as an electoral officer for the Opposition’s right-wing warrior, and MLA for Terrigal, Chris Hartcher.”
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23838594-5001021,00.html
TBH I reckon Della Bosca and Neal weren’t on their best behaviour that night, but the Lib staffer stat dec is a mighty big coincidence that’s for sure.
Has Dolly got a son who works on Sky Business channel? Just saw a pompus git who looked and talked just like him!
After a reporter at the Toyota factory at Altona had finished his report (all positive) about Kev’s hybrid car announcement, the “Dolly” look alike said, “we’ve just had an email asking if the new luxuruy car tax will be added to them” Code for “The Libs just rang and we need to turn this positive into a negative, FAST!”
Expect all newpaper headlines not to be about new hybrid car contract for OZ but about how they will be so expensive as to attract the luxury tax and none of the battlers will be able to afford them.
Get ready for the media feeding frenzy folks.
http://news.theage.com.au/national/rudd-has-too-many-grand-plans-oppn-20080610-2o4x.html
You would have thought Robb would have got his heat around the non-proliferation treaty by now wouldn’t you?
If India were serious about their need for our uranium and could guarantee none would be used for weapons then they just have to sign up.
I guess the LP are hoping no one looks deeper into this than their press release again….
#328 Bushfire Bill. I agree with you completely about last night’s episode of Australian Story. I turned off when they said she had hired Max Markson as her agent!
I suggest you put your excellent critique of the program on the Australian Story website, in the comments section.
#320 Charles, Piers Ackerman is NOT a member of the Canberra press gallery. He sits in an office in Sydney, and rarely ventures out, except to make gratuitous TV appearnaces. Perhaps it would be better if he WAS a member of the Canberra press galerry – at least he might have to come face to face occasionally with some of the politicians he slags.
And I have to agree with many other PB posters that this Rudd-snubs-Japan line is bizarre. Japan has only recently worked out who its Prime Minister really is, and its government has been in disarray (it still is, actually). It was sensible to delay a visit to Japan.
And anyway, Rudd seems to be one of the few politicians who really understands that China is the dominant force in the region, and that the China-Australia relationship is the one that really needs to be built up. I think the Opposition remains in shock that Rudd can actually speak Chinese, and can deal with China in a way that Howard never could.
Rudd should have made his first visits to Tuvalu and Kiribati, given they might not be there later in his term.
“Antonio Says:
June 10th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I turned off when they said she had hired Max Markson as her agent!”
Also now representing: Industrial Mediator – Mick Gatto.
It was “I dug deep” that got me. Clearly a hand-me-down from her footballing “friend”.
The idea seems to be: here’s this lovely Australian family, where Mum and Daughter are “best friends”. How dare anyone say different? No matter that little Candace punches her colleagues and acts like a brat. This of course doesn’t deserve the full Daily Telegraph “treatment”, but it doesn’t merit a half-hour of national TV either.
Some people have real problems, not just pretend ones.
BB, if Candice ever catches wind of your heartless condemnation, I’m afraid she’ll have to dig even deeper. Long saronged 1000 mile stare walks along Maroubra beach might help, for a time. But in the end it will only be the unswerving devotion of compatriots such as Kate McCulloch (who’s Australian and Catholic values, despite what the pontificators say, are completely beyond reproach) that will give her the confidence to shine again as a true sporting patriot.
That’s not Downer’s son.
Downer’s son’s at Flinders Uni. (I know, because my Facebook directory keeps asking meto pick him as a friend!)
whoops re posting 400, i only meant to paste the last item about Milne, yoiks i dont know what went wrong, sorry William i’ll put in a donation to help with the bandwidth—Judy creeps away shaking her head muttering about people shouldn’t try things their not adept at.
donation completed, sorry again William.
On two somewhat related topics, the US election and poor political commentary.
Whilst we have to endlessly endure the drivel slapped together by what laughingly passes for intelligent conservative commentators in Australia; the US is blessed with quality commentators of all political persuasions. One of the best conservative commentators is David Brooks of the NY Times.
Here is his classic article from October 2006 encouraging Barack Obama to run for president.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E6DB1F30F93AA25753C1A9609C8B63
If you heard girlish shrieks, crying, and temper tantrums emanating from the Mayo area this is probably the reason why.
“AUSTRALIA is to lead the way on kick-starting the faltering nuclear disarmament process, with former foreign minister Gareth Evans to co-chair an international commission.”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23836647-23109,00.html
Wails of ” But, I’m more relevant than Gareth were heard”.
Possum’s Pollytrack has the ALP Primary vote down from 46.6% to 46.2% from mid May, everything else is flatline. I really, really want the ALP pre-election commitment to independent appointments to boards fast tracked so that some approximation of balanced reporting on the ABC becomes possible again. As for that Australian Story last night, if that’s an Australian story, we’re in a lot of trouble.
That people who excel at sport should, by virtue of that fact, be catapulted to celebrity status, points to a deep shallowness among the populace. Where is the lauding of people such as David Malouf or Peter Carey? Where is the lauding of people who excel in science? Where’s the gong for someone like Robin Williams, the Science Show? Or philosophy? Or anything else that actually contributes to the sum of human knowledge, experience, understanding, capacity to engage deeply and across divides?
With some exceptions, who still survive, beyond all expectation at the ABC, bugger all.
End of rant from grumpy old woman. Goes off to start sending emails to gov’t members and Conroy to get on with it.
Just watched the the 7.30 Liberal Report. Who needs Chris Toolman when you have Heather Ewert. Rudd couldn’t do a thing right. The sneering, negative report on the hybrid car plus a scathing account on how Rudd sees the big picture. And guess who she interviewed to get an unbiased point of view? Greg Sheridan. Spare me. Can Rudd do anything right?
Interesting article, Aristotle. Ta.
BB,
It’s CandIce. She can’t be all that bad – was wearing Rabbitoh gear twice that I saw. That alone, by anyones lights, squares the ledger.
By the way, the Super League war is hotting up again. Mate against mate. State against state. Date against date. And all that. The Ruddster follows the Broncos, thereby putting himself squarely in the News Ltd corner. Might get messy later on so he needs to snuggle up to some Sydney teams for balance.
response from Morgan:
Keep in touch, it will be interesting to see where the poll sits in a few
months, you may be right as the problem up to now has not been caused by
Rudd and his team. However they will need to fix the future, and this will
be tough!
Gary Morgan
Watching SBS.
The common denominator of those countries with the best health and hospital services and coverage (every one) is the lack of profit making health insurance companies. Japan, Germany, Britain, Taiwan.
Tawain 6% of GDP on health care, the USA 15-16%. No doubt that extra 9% is profit in the pockets of health insurance companies.
Gary whilst i agree somewhat with your view regarding Sheridan, their were some interesting things said by Ewart in her article.
Thus is it feasible to make cars in Australia which will be save less Greenhouse Gases than overseas hybrid counterparts and will the cars sell as prices for them will not be cheap in comparision to smaller cars.
Also should Toyota get money for a project which may not succeed?
I am ambivalent about the project and do not necessarily support Ewarts’ stated views.
Sheridan who i cannot stand did make one good point regarding policy all symbolic gestures and not much substance.
Pity he did not say the same about Howard and Downers’ ideas.
Kina i thought it was 2% of GDP.
Nonetheless the Taiwanese are smart people, look all around the world at all Health systems work out the mistakes and develop the perfect system. And looking at it they along with the French have the best health care systems in the world. Far better than Australias’. We are dumb here more interested in individualistic greed.
Even those nasty socialist types in Switzerland fixed up the health system transforming it apparently. No profit on basic care and everyone has the right to health care. A basic human right she says.
Boy how much would Howard and the Libs hate all these countries. The AMA would scream blue murder.
The USA was 2%? If it was 15% given that there is appalling coverage it would mean money being wasted – insurance companies. If it is 2% then government under investing – leaving up to profit making orgs. Will have to check this one out – or probably people hear who knows it.
here
re: the hybrid car plan, at least the OO online is headlining with a positive tone:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23842485-601,00.html
Re: the oppositon’s response, this is typical of how poor their strategy is. They just attack everything for oppositions sake. Rudds skill as Opp Leader was to choose his battles and not just be negative about everything, or he would say, we support this but they should have done this or that. The current opp has so much to learn
Taiwan- i am sure was 2%. And look how they acheived it, they research, invest and innovate and do this with an urge to better themselves and their country, how fantastic is that. Australia the land of dills, commodities and not much else. And we sell our minerals overseas for countries to build things and we then buy them back- how intelligent.
Andrew (419) – I’m with you on that point, but don’t forget the coalitions embarrasing agreement with Rudd on:
a) the apology for everything that was ever done wrong to an aboriginal
b) certain aspects of Workchoices
c) kyoto etc
I think brendan ” I need no blanket, my love for my country keeps me warm” nelson is trying to choose his battles, just not sure how successful he is at it
Maybe Murdoch has some shares in Toyota.
The judgment of Herod was a little less subtle than Solomon’s. It involved killing all the kids in the hope he could get one. True believer George Bush certainly emulated Herod’s single-mindedness rather than Solomonic judgment when he vetoed the bill to provide healthcare for millions American children currently without it.
Most astoundingly, for any capitalist with an accountant, is the difference in costs and efficiency. Taiwan gives everyone healthcare for less than one sixth the price per head of the US. In fact by 2005, US healthcare amounted to almost $2 trillion, or $6,697 per person, amounting to 16% of GDP – and still left 47 million people without insurance, more than 20 million inadequately covered, and, as GM’s recent manoeuvres show, untold millions more whose insurance is not as secure as they once thought. Taiwan spent 5.7% of GDP and less than $900 a head.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/oct/07/taiwangetshealthy
Gary Bruce: what happened to Michael Brissenden? Is he on leave of some sort?
I must say I miss him, the 7.30 REPORT seems rudderless without him!
Spare a thought for those of us in New South Wales, we’re being deluged with Della Bosca/Belinda Neale/Igaunagate scandal!
Progressive #424, Della Bosca and Neal should be thrown out of the Labor Party if found guilty.
Taiwan- i am sure was 2%.
I thought that was Japan.
425
guilty of what?
having dinner and arguing with about the service with staff
strueth quick! better sack half Australia
425 John,
Are you serious? Dis-membered for complaining about restaurant service? Sure they were probably acting like a couple of wine-soaked Tories, but you wouldn’t have an issue with that would you? (Melbourne Cup, John Kerr, etc.). Do we need to stat a pissing contest as to which side has the worse record re: alcohol fuelled idiocy? Anybody who can be bothered (in this the binge drinking awareness era) with putting together a league table of political grog indiscretions, I’d be happy to see it, and my suspicion is that the blue bloods win hands down (happy to be corrected, however).
Didn’t Peter C spill his guts to Brissleden et al over numerous Aristotles of red?
I think they are in more shit for covering it up, rather than the incident itself… if they have that is
It’s Brisbane city council budget day today and the livability of the city continues to fall and the debt rise. Good work Liberals!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/city-slips-in-liveable-ranks/2008/06/10/1212863638627.html
Perhaps we should all be rejoicing over the MSM’s antics, they are in the process of rendering themselves a laughing-stock with the average Ozzie. I still believe that we have an inherent sense of fair play, we can see the hypocricy such as the feigned concern for pensioners, when nothing was said during the Rat years as pensioners slid further into poverty. And who can believe them when they trumpet the latest ‘news’ from the camp of the screeching eunuch.
The Libs will soon start to self-cannibalise as the grim reality of life in opposition sinks in, and the media will then move on. In the meantime, I look for my news from other sources.
All this feigned outrage over Della Bosca and his wife is being whipped up by one anti-Labor commercial radio station in Sydney and the DAILY TELEGRAPH, always a model of journalistic integrity(rolls eyes). Now we’re being told Rudd should sack Belinda Neale because she allegedly elbowed an opposing player in a soccer match! The two of them are a pair of idiots, and Iemma is a weak tool, but this media feeding frenzy is getting to the point of sheer lunacy!
Somehow I doubt any regular person gives two hoots about this whole thing.
I’m struggling to care myself.
Della alienated David Penberthy (Daily Telegraph) a few weeks back when the Minister engaged in a frank and colourful discussion with some of Penberthy’s staff. This occurred at an awkward and sensitive time for the Minister: when he was photographed on a bicycle with an ill fitting helmet. It was shortly after the announcement that Della’s driver’s licence was to be cancelled for repeat speeding offences.
As for the Member for Robertson, one of Penberthy’s journalists (Malcolm Farr) wrote an uncomplimentary piece on her in yesterday’s Telegraph. So in the great tradition of ‘balance’ so cherished among Poll Bludgers perhaps some of the regular contributors here (those who have better than average knowledge of the Australian Labor Party and its elected representatives of the people) can confirm to the rest of us that Belinda Neal is indeed a fine, upstanding and decent human being, who was very even tempered in the face of rude and offhand behaviour from unreasonable staff at a restaurant in her electorate.
living in the area and knowing iggies and its reputation, im surprised that the veritable storm ina teacup has been blown up so much.
that said the fibs press mates are used to making a mountain out of a molehill viz jwh
regarding belinda,i have a sister much like her and constantly wonder why males are so intimidated by a strong woman,must be small penis syndrome i guess
Regarding Neal & Della Bosca, they are both complete tools but they will bunker down until the news cycle blows over.
Iemma won’t do anything because he needs Della Bosca in Cabinet to get Electricity privatisation through.
David Charles I didn’t read the piece in a completely uncomplimentary way. In some ways it presented her as a strong female parliamentarian. The whole piece, though, seemed overly personal and, in a way, demonstrated the insular nature of the Canberra Press Gallery.
But no, I’ve heard far from glowing critiques of Ms Neal mostly.
Have just received a response from both Barrie Cassidy and Kerry-Anne Walsh.
“FYI, I worked for some three years as a press advisor in the former Labor government.
I get more emails accusing me of bias against the Liberals.
So I guess I’m doing my job.
Kerry-Anne”
“we received numerous e-mails the previous week saying that we constantly bash nelson and that it’s time we concentrated on the government – after all they are the government. we must be doing something right.” Yeah, thanks Barrie.
So they all respond. Worth a shot.
Don’t worry this BS about Della bosca and Neale will pass into oblivion very soon. The Morongraph is capable of making a non story last about a week. Take “spewgate”, what a wank.
And now we wait for the inevitable defamation lawsuit against The Terror:
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23846154-5001028,00.html
#438
Of course, they need to do something extra for balance whenever Piers Akerman makes an appearance. Probably nothing short of a Labor politician as one of the panel members would be sufficient.
I wrote to the Insiders (via their “email contact” form) on Sunday. No reply yet.
It is of course easy to say people complain for supporting one side or another – but the reality is one thing. Cassidy knows what the reality is. I find hard to believe that anyone could complain that the insiders has been even a little bit hard on the Liberals they interview.
Further back on this thread Aristotle suggested to contact Cassidy on cassidy.barrie@abc.net.au It worked.
“I wrote to the Insiders (via their “email contact” form) on Sunday. No reply yet.”
You won’t be getting one. Emailing them is as big a waste of time as watching them.
Anyone want to get in touch with Kerry-Anne Walsh?
Kerry-Anne Walsh
Political Correspondent
61 2 6240 4080 t
61 2 6240 4075 f
0412 397759 m
kwalsh@sunherald.com.au
If only Piers was so contactable.
Nelson today calls on Rudd to sack Belinda Neale from the Labor Party: oh please, why would the Ruddster even bother? I’d bet Belinda is kept in mothballs for the next year or so, she won’t be called on to ask Dorothy Dixers in parliament, she’ll be confined to work in her constituency.
What’s worse than the DAILY TERROR when it comes to anti-Labor bias? Try listening to radio station 2GB in Sydney, it’s wall to wall Rudd & Iemma bashing all day!
447 Progressive Try 3AW or better still try the opposition’s own pay TV channel. Oh, and its free to air TV channel.
akermanp@dailytelegraph.com.au
The Liberal supporting MSM is uncritical and would not change their support even if the Liberal party wanted to legalise child abuse.
You could just imagine all those murdoch journalists and Liberal radio stations spining weird stories demonstrating how beneficial child abuse would be if legalised. In other words they would support the devil if it were head of the Liberal party.
This is why they are on a path where they could eventually be harmful to this country, trying to have installed an incompetent and chaotic Liberal party as the government. The last people they are thinking about are Australians.
Just watched the end of The National Press Club speech by Mike Rann (impressive) and one of the Press questions was should Della Bosca and Neal be sacked. He said he’s known della 20 yrs and he was a wonderful caring bloke or words to that effect. Then he had a dig at the press saying (tongue in cheek)that he knew how honourable they all were and how none would tell untruths (not exact words).
Then he went on to tell of a story which had run for days in the papers and on TV about how he had abused a service station attendant and demanded he fill his silver Honda which had even number plates in a time of petrol rationing when it was the day for odd number plates. The problem with the story was he didn’t drive, didn’t own a car and had never been in a silver Honda in his life . He also told how his wife (they were engaged at time) had been accused of being in Caines(spelling?) film festival at tax payers expense when at the time she was 5 minutes from the newspaper office.
He finished up by telling them to get their facts straight!!
I smell a rat, but don’t quite know where it is yet.
The Australian ran with a story today that Toyota were always going to build their hybrid car in Australia and didn’t need the “$70m” subsidy offered by the Govt. (Rudd offered $35m, but anyway). The implication being that Rudd is needlessly throwing away money. This has now been replaced as top story with a non story, Rudd to meet Emperor.
I haven’t found any reference to the “hybrid” story in the Age or SMH online.
In my suspicious mind, unless the OZ has some problem with their initial story, they would have shouted it from the roof tops for a week or so.
What’s going on?
Fulvio
Their ABC is also at it with the Lib propaganda (AGAIN!)
Big headline
“Hybrid grant a ‘$35m Rudd photo op’”
then we find that this is a quote by Libs
“The Federal Opposition says the grant handed out to Toyota to build hybrid cars in Australia amounts to a $35 million photo opportunity for Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.”
ABC have become so predictable, you don’t need to read their crap to know what it will say! They are an embarassment to themselves.
Fulvio 452
this is why toyota has had a go at them
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23846728-12377,00.html
Thanks Vera.
No futher comment required. They are truly pathetic.
Maybe y’all should write to Purnendra Jain, Professor and Head of Asian Studies at Adelaide University for not glorifying Rudd.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JF11Ad02.html
JoM
what a crap article
think it was ‘hastily cobbled together’
Vera, the headline you quote is an abbreviation of the first sentence of the story, nothing more nothing less, and single quote marks are put around the key claim by the opposition. Are you suggesting that the opposition’s remarks shouldn’t be quoted? Are you suggesting the ABC should ignore the key point the opposition are trying to make!
John, he’s entitled to his opinion. At least he presents it as such and not as some eternal truth, as do your heroes in the MSM.
gotta laugh at the Libs stamping their feet and having a bawl about Kev and his “photo ops”
The Rodent was like a hooker in The Cross when the fleet was in. Any uniform in sight and he was on his back, legs spead begging for someone to take photos.
Gary: you’ve got Neil Mitchell, we in Sydney have Alan Jones and Ray Hadley!
All 3 have made a career out of crawling up the arse of the Liberal Party.
“vera Says:
June 11th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
The Rodent was like a hooker in The Cross when the fleet was in. Any uniform in sight and he was on his back, legs spead begging for someone to take photos.”
You have a remarkably colourful turn of phrase, Vera.
Gary Bruce, I am glad the email contact for Barrie Cassidy worked.
John @ 456 : Any yet there is this from Hadi Soesastro, Executive Director of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Jakarta…..
http://eastasiaforum.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/kevin-rudds-architecture-for-the-asia-pacific/
….which is a very positive take on it.
one of the comments on Howard Sattler’s “Blog” on the new Fairfax Perth news website.
http://blogs.watoday.com.au/madashell/2008/06/pensioners_the.html
So you see from Sondeo’s link, John, that when an opinion piece is presented as such, it is unobjectionable per se, and can be rebutted by argument from a different perspective and mindset. What you then accept is up to you.
To be bombarded by extravagant exaggerations, beat ups, deliberate lies and distortions, all presented as proven facts, is another matter entirely.
But I would have thought you’d have known that.
Maybe y’all should write to Purnendra Jain, Professor and Head of Asian Studies at Adelaide University for not glorifying Rudd.
No point wasting time and effort on an ‘expert’ who apparently isn’t aware that the delay in Rudd visiting Japan originated more in Tokyo than Canberra, or who believes we should abandon our Nuclear Suppliers Group obligations because the war criminal in Washington and his LibNat fellow travellers find its provisions inconvenient. If India really wants our yellow-cake it only needs to sign a safeguards agreement with the IAEA. That should not be a problem if its intentions are benign.
As one of Belinda Neal’s constituents, I remember last year before the election having one or two here question me about my outspoken opinion on Belinda’s uselessness. I now feel completely vindicated. None of the latest tawdry story surprises me. A read of the stat. dec.’s and a look at the CCTV tells you he allegations are all true.
I thought last year the ALP would be better off if she didn’t win the seat, which was a big call from someone like me desperate to see the back of Howard. She made it only by the skin of her teeth, when a quality candidate would have romped in, because the workers around Robertson know she’s a dud.
For the first time I agree completely with Horatio on something. Except he wasn’t damning enough.
Frank Calabrese #463
I think I can guess, without even looking, who wrote that. Ann of WA?
I can tell by the phrasing, the oddly-placed capitalisation and the obsession with Rudd being a “Junior Diplomat”.
Have seen “her” malicious howard-licking posts on News Ltd blogs. Will no doubt maintain the rage for years to come.
Now you have to got to worry about the competence of this so called Australian Toyota spokesman and wonder if he still has a job. It is so stupid you have to also wonder about motives.
Regardless of the facts, from a business perspective you would think he would have had the nouse to protect his $70 million by not making comments such as these.
Hi gods in Japan have set him straight and now we have:
I’m assuming so
_
btw, check out “Skink’s” cooment, as it was me who predicted what Howie’s first column would be over at http://theworstofperth.com
Downer was an even more junoir and less successful dimplomat.
The ABC has gone from bad to worse, in the past they wouldnt headline with something like the photo op headline without having Opposition says, or :Opposition after the quote. Now they just parrot the liberal party
The best thing about the MSM bias at present is that it means Nelson stays. And that’s great for the government
You are spot on Kina. Ann it was. I’ve just posted on Sattler’s blog that he might want to change it’s name from Mad as Hell to Mad Ass l’s.
I have to say this Belinda Neal stuff holds slighly less interest for me than watching paint dry and I’m into politics. I’d imagine the average “don’t care” Joe Blow would find it even less compelling than I do. For those who hear anything about it, it will be “Belinda who?”
good on ya!
I encourage you all to monster Sattler’s blog – which is all about Betty and Mavis being forced to eat dog food due to the paucity of the State Pension. Utter hogwash.
be polite though – it’s their first week and their moderator is very sensitive to any ascerbic criticism.
GB funny how Cassidy and Walsh respond that they have complaints from Lib voters. Its like a bigot saying, “some of my best friends are (insert object of bigotry)”. Die hards from both sides WILL complain no matter what. It cerainly DOES not prove bias doesnt exist.
At least you got a reply. i got nothing
The one thing I will say about Neal though is that Rudd has successfully turned her from “bad woman to be hated” to “mad woman to be pitied” and that politically is a good result. Now, let’s hear “Just Call Me Brendan” get into her and still look compassionate and caring.
Fulvio,
It seems that between her and The Worst Of Perth, Sattlers blogging days will be successful as his pitiful attempt over on Perth Now
474 Andrew – I’m going to keep hammering too. They don’t know it yet but they made the mistake of replying. If nothing else it makes me feel good.
The pensioners eating dog food stuff brings back memories of the Keating years, one of the “current affairs” shows of the time ran a similar story – poor pensioner eating dog food. Until it was pointed out that dog food is more expensive than, say, braised steak and onions, for human consumption.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
JV at 466, you assessment of Neale may be inherently correct, but what about the fact that the stat decs were signed by a Lib member, and dont you think there has been an overreaction to the incident
The other thing about the hysteria and bias of the media, which also applied when he was opposition leader is this: if THIS is all theyve got to attack Rudd about, then he must be doing well
That $30m did seem funny to me, the Toyota head honcho not knowing what it was for.
Any fool would know you don’t tell a government offering you 30 million dollars that you don’t need it. What a clown. It could only have been said to embarrass the government, it certainly wasn’t a business decision.
But Farmer Jacks has Kit-Kat for 79c a tin while also having Continental Pasta Sauces for 99c
Decisions, Decisions
that should be Kit E Kat
Talk about eating Pussy
Dear Sir,
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Neal’s behaviour has acted to enhance her reputation as a very, very nasty piece of work. ALP powerbrokers would be wishing that they had found a safe state seat for her instead of burdening the federal government with her boorish behaviour: I say that as a long-time Labor voter.
The NSW ALP government is perfect for Neal: she would be among her ilk and such saintly and well behaved folk as Joe “Lucky Luciano” Tripodi, Eric “Meyer Lansky” Roozendaal, Mo “The Chairman” Iemma, Michael “Toe Cutter” Costa and of course John “The Boss” Della Bosca.
Skink, Frank! Mine got published!
I think the moderator thought I was aiming my comments at the handfull of pro Labor posters on his penny dreadful…
I noticed that – it seems that the moderator doesn’t understand irony
Rudd has ordered Neale to receive ‘counselling’ to be able to communicate with people and be able to attend to her constituents. Neale has apparently accepted.
Neale’s preselection and subsequent behaviour should give succour to those in the ALP wjo want to better manage the selection of future candidates.
On the face of it she doesn’t set the world on fire by any measure.
Word is that censure motions against the Japanese PM may have him cancelling his meeting with Rudd. If so will the MSM be in a tizzy about ‘Fukuda slights Rudd’ or will they spin it as Rudd getting his just deserts? Need I ask!
The pensioners eating dog food stuff brings back memories of the Keating years, one of the “current affairs” shows of the time ran a similar story – poor pensioner eating dog food. Until it was pointed out that dog food is more expensive than, say, braised steak and onions, for human consumption.
Presumably, that would now be even more true now given that pet food is subject to the GST.
Oh, we had it tuff, we used to stay up nights,
dreaming of eating dog food
Now you tell that to the young people of today and they won’t believe you
454 Vera
Thanks for that link; I thought the Oz story was an appallingly slanted coverage of the Toyota Camry hybrid decision. That decision probably saved 3000 jobs in the Melbourne area in the short term and more in the long term. It finally introduces a critical transitional technology into the Australain car industry. Its pathetic that the Libertarian tries to shoot down a story that is crucial to the long term survival of one of our largest industries.
I suppose an apology for a blatantly false report will not be forthcoming.
That is Neale to attend ‘Anger Management’ Counselling
Mayo – the headlines will be “Japan gives Rudd the Snub he Deserves”
Isn’t it amazing how well the Dalai Lama is able to send our politicians into exile? The top 3 have all skipped the country, leaving Chris Evans in charge. If one was going invade the country maybe they should get the Dalai Lama to lead the charge? There wouldn’t be a pollie left.
#497 and your point is???
Curiously the MSM is beginning to not just look to promote a negative view of the government they have also become like sulking children. Rudd does something good, they have to pout and say it aint good, or ‘what about….blah’.
Keven Rudd saves someone’s life in an act great bravery….and the ABC and Murdoch press will come out with how his shoe laces weren’t tied and how can he present himself so untidily in public. Exactly like the jealous sulking kid.
The collective MSM has developed a personality problem…haha (we know Brendan and Co already had one).
Andrew @ 481 – I think the reaction is partly because of Neale’s reputation, and the political dynasty angle. They were ready to pounce. It may not be of interest in the rest of Australia, but you can be assured it has fed into a local festering dislike of Neal, which is abroad because not only because of her execrable personality and also because she is a political waste of space who everyone knows was shoe-horned into the seat after previous failures only because of Della. The widely read local paper had the headline screaming across yesterday’s edition “Iguana-gate!!” with an unflattering photo. She could well be a one-termer if the Libs get a reasonable candidate to stand, and deservedly so.
With the Murdoch press so negative on anything non-Liberal party, the ABC become a promotional arm of the Liberal party, a few TV stations tending toward the negative, a batch of spiteful anti-Labor radio stations – there is a whole empty niche there for the taking – the positive MSM.
I reckon a media outlet that undertook the optimistic route may win itself a niche that is now under catered for. Positive and Optimistic also sells.
#500 well, that’s the local meeja for ya – an msm equivalent?
I thought Neale had a bit more credibility than her hubby pulling strings?
497
B.S.Fairman @ 497 -
If one was going invade the country maybe they should get the Dalai Lama to lead the charge? There wouldn’t be a pollie left.
Oh, goodie. We might have a chance then!
News ltd have been spruking a poll showing 87% want Rudd to take legal action over whaling.
This is from the article
“The Government has recently backed away from taking the legal route, despite gathering evidence from the Japanese fleet’s summer hunt in Antarctic waters for such a purpose”
I think msm are hoping like hell that Kev doesn’t mention whaling so they can accuse him of weakness etc. But they are going to be dissappointed, going by Kev’s comments that his opinion hasn’t changed and if diplomacy fails he’ll follow other options.
Also from this article dated 10th June
“The poll also saw Labor’s lead over the Coalition widening by four points to 58-42 on a two-party preferred basis.
The online survey of more than 1000 respondents was conducted between June 4 and yesterday. ”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23842104-29277,00.html
“Consumer confidence drop shows Govt ‘impotence’”
another ABC headline which is in fact a quote from Allbull (or is his new name Invisabull)
498 – Well, Next election when you want to go to local Shopping Centre and want to live in peace, take yourself the Dalai Lama.
We can all rant and rage and rage and rant about the MSM, ABC, et al till the cows come home – what is going to make a difference? How to change it?
Does anyone know anything about this Essential Research mob?
I don’t think the Japanese PM with his domestic political problems would enjoy very much Rudd raising Whaling or would they be in a position to offer anything – on the contrary they would want to seem strong on the position. Depending of course on Japanese public opinion on the issue.
So probably not very strategic to make too much out of it on this trip.
cille, It’s my view you can forget about the OO and their ilk, however, I’ve taken to emailing Conroy and my local member, who admittedly might be a bit busy with Health (bastard portfolio, though love her latest setting the cat among the pigeons with primary health care reform; has got right up the noses of the “business” type GPs and got the support of the more sensible) to tell him I’m most displeased with specifically, the Online News and quoting examples, and requesting they get on with their pre-election promise to have independent appointments to statutory boards, such as the ABC, and that while, I can understand they can’t do everything at once, it’s getting really annoying and it might just be in their interests to have something other than Heather Ewart interviewing Greg Sheridan on the 7.30 Report.
Just keep hammering away.
#506 B. S Fairman – I asked what your point was, not some dribble about a shopping centre and peace – in ancient times you’re ancestors may have been considered to be a fair man – “Fairman”.
Well, Kina, as long as Fukuda offers Rudd an Iced Vovo and not some whale sashimi, Rudd will probably, it’ll probably go O.K.. Well, that’s if Fukuda can focus.
#510 Snapper – you’ve got Roxon as your local?
Sorry, Kina, got distracted by listening to Nicola on the 7.30 Report and didn’t complete the sentence properly. Aplologies also to William for wasting bandwidth. Meant to say Rudd will probably use a more strategic approach in terms of topics addressed and that it will probably go O.K. if Fukuda can focus on anything other than his own political survival.
cille, Yep. She, like Julia, is impressing me more and more. These people are seriously, seriously smart and intelligent.
So The Morongraph will run with more negatives on Neale. They’ll overplay it as usual.
snapper, I know – she is one helluva force – give her a couple of years – do you know about her background and her aunt (I think) powerful stuff
Cillie – Clearly you’re too thick to see the point. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed or something?
Now, now fairy don’t get all contrary on me – tis ok – what’s the point?
What’s the point of what? The fact that most members of the Rudd government run for the hills if there’s a chance of offending the Chinese in any way? I don’t know what the point of that is; they’re still going to buy our resources even if we call them nasty names or meet with their moral enemies. It is bloody hard to fridge without Iron Ore.
Fairy and those (most) members names are??
B.S., will remind you that Rudd was criticised for raising the Tibetan issue when visiting China – several commentators thought it ‘poor form’.
As for meeting with the D.L. – what would be the point to it? He has no political power and is a religious leader of a very small sect. It’s not as if he is leading the resistance in Tibet (he’s more a ‘government in exile’ type).
Do you think Rudd should meet with the Basque separatists, Sinn Fein, the leader of the Tamil Tigers, Hamas, the Taliban (all of the above would portray themselves as a persecuted group fighting for the freedom of their people against a powerful oppressor) —- or just with religious cult leaders?
Raising Tibet whilst in China was far more important.
Rudd is in Japan, Gillard took off to NZ and Swan has pissed off to Europe. It does seem they’re a gutless bunch sometimes. And I know it is probably not deliberate but it does look fishy to some.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/11/2271708.htm
When the Government is being accused of being too focused on China, doing something to displease the Chinese Government would help to counter that charge.
523 – No. But by playing so conservatively he is still risking the losing ground to the left. But I reckon Rudd is pretty safe at the moment as it is not going to happen whilst the Greens are “the left” as Bob Brown is actually a really weak leader. But with the Liberals in state of being a joke, it is the left flank where an upstart might be able to make ground against the ALP.
The coverage of Belinda Neal is another episode of voyeurism politics by the media and the public. The type of saturation highlighted by Mark Latham in his book.
Nonetheless Neal is a dud, and should never have been preselected and why was she because her husband had a say and helped.
The Labor Party is continuing to preselect dills or factional mates and the New South Wales party is likely to be full of mates or likely corrupt factional bullies.
Which faction are Neal and Bosca in? I assuming the Right on the grounds of his stature and the fact it is NSW but I could be wrong.
And the Liberal Party is full of them, too.
Sophie Mirabella was accused (and denied it in much the same way Neal has) of biting a fellow member of Parliament during an altercation. Although this story appears to be totally apocrophal, it was reported as factual by both the Fin Review and Crikey at the time…but she wasn’t asked to have counselling.
She later referred to fellow Liberal party members as ‘political terrorists’ and in her local electorate has engaged in behaviour which would shock Mr Nelson.
Wilson Tuckey is called ‘Iron Bar’ for a reason; Abbott abused Roxon on national television; Heffernan dodgied up a case against Michael Kirby, using Parliamentary priviledge, and called Gillard ‘intentionally barren’; and Downer, Vaile, Howard et al were either grossly irresponsible or corrupt or lying about AWB.
In any political party, of any hue (and I include the Greens), people are going to seek power for its own sake rather than because they are adornments to public life. The nature of political parties means that more people than we would like end up in Parliament (and alas, too often in safe seats; they don’t dare run for anything else).
The world has its fair share of dills, incompetents and bullies; you would expect that, in a representative democracy, there’d be a proportion of these in Parliament.
Oh dear, the highly scientific poll on ninemsn:
Should Belinda Neal be sacked?51101 Yes
8329 No
It appears our dear voters can tolerate being lied to and misled on children overboard, WMDs, AWD, Hicks, Haneef etc etc but not a backbencher with a temper
I say tolerate because, whilst the Howard govt was of course eventually thrown out, these issues were tolerated at the time by the electorate
Channel Nine could have a poll on if Nelson should be made to eat cockroaches and probably 40% would say yes. Probably the most useless polls run – probably used to gauge how many people read their stories and what interests people most.
Sack a backbencher? Sack from what? The best Rudd can do is ask her to leave the party. Even then he can’t force her to go, that’s up to the party and if they got rid of everyone with a temper then the ALP would be badly depleted.
Parliament can expell a member but I think the only single time it every did so was in ’20s.
Nine and Sky polls always favour libs 80/20. Sky polls had Rodent a dead cert to be re-elected with bloomin’ big increased majority to boot! LOL
530
I certainly would
Funny ain’t it? how this weeks Essential Research online poll which shows Labor stretching the gap to 58/42 TPP has been ignored where as the last one which had libs gaining ground was the main story on all the TV nightly news’ and msm Shamman Toad and Dwarf were shouting “THE HONEYMOON IS OVER” from the rooftops!
Never mind, a few more polls like this and the buggers might jump of the rooftops. One can only hope LOL
Yes Vera, a fortnight ago, Essential Research went from obscurity to THE poll that mattered. When it suited the MSM of course
Again with the Neal issue, Nelson has overplayed his hand. He could have handled it in a more mature fashion, and shown the compassion he wants everyone to believe he has. He cant help himself, he just jumps onto everything.
“msm Shamman, Toad and Dwarf ” The fellowship of bath-ring
Nothing to be done about the bias of the MSM – too many of them all singing from the same song sheet. SO if you can’t change them change the people’s understanding of them. As I said before if it were possible for people to be made alert that the majority of the MSM is working at every opportunity to have the Liberal party elected by smearing the Labor government then it wouldn’t matter what the media said, people,s incredulity would be in operation at all times.
Smear a persons character then they lose credibility – likewise the media.
The question then becomes how do you get the message into the minds of the general public without spending a lot of money.
For those of us that remember the joy of an unchanged Newspoll/Morgan or AC Neilson from the time Mr Rudd became Opposition Leader and during the election campaign, we know the TV polls are a joke.
I’m sure both parties have people with a specific job of dialling in and to register a vote. Unlike the polls mentioned above in which most people are selected at random by the polling organisation.
As Sir Humphrey Appleby in “Yes Minister ” so aptly put it, you can get a poll to say exactly what you want. You just have to have the right questions. And so it is with TV or Radio or even online polls.
536- What about O’Farrell over playing it with his “As big as Watergate”. Somewhat different I would suggest.
Sorry if I implied that the MSM poll had any worth as a measure of public opinion. Of course it doesnt.
And Kina, there isnt anything you can do, but I find it amazing that there appears to be a real lack of awareness in the community about the bias. The former government did well as painting the ABC as biased (until it stacked its board) and I wonder how long Rudd will bite his tongue
Remember last year when Shanahan took a pasting on the blogs over his Liberal interpretation of Newspoll. This made some impact because of the size of the protest. If enough people target a news organisation and hound them on bias something will eventually be done. If the pensioners can make their case known so can those who find the conduct of the media deplorable at the moment. It’s a matter of numbers and will.
The only thing against taking action I suppose is that this bias is having no effect on the government’s popularity. Maybe it is helping them.
I wonder if Labor have decided to in effect sacrifice Neal (knowing the Feds can absorb such bad publicity at this stage) in an effort to distract the media from Della Bosca.
And while we’re on about ABC bias, check out the bias about the Gippsland by-election at http://www.abc.net.au/elections.
In 32 of the 34 elections listed, the National Party is listed first. I don’t care if the Nationals had the highest primary vote in those 32 elections, the listing of parties in descending order of primary vote is obviously another sign of bullying by the ABC. Fairness should respect failure as well as success. I think anger management is recommended.
And if I can’t write a piece myself and then have the right to be the first to accuse myself of bias, then what sort of democracy are we living in!
Groan, stray full stop again
http://www.abc.net.au/elections
Gary @ 542: And the Australian Editor openly attacked the blogosphere in his editorial. Poor Dennis had to shut down his blog replies because his reporting of the poll findings was biased and was shown up for the sham it was.
” Possum ” proved that you don’t have to work for a news organisation to give some of the best unbiased, well documented poll commentary you could find anywhere, and his deconstruction and analysis of the Crosby Textor documents showed all how Howard used advertising, spending in marginals and dog whistling on specific subjects to win elections.
What these journo’s don’t realise is that most people are more intelligent then they give them credit for.
Antony Green @ 545
Got it in one.
In Victorian Politics: Les Twentyman is going to stand as an independent in the Kororoit by-election. I would expect a decent showing from him given he does have a fairly high profile and the ETU is backing him. I wouldn’t suggest a win however, but again it is the left flank which could be a nasty thorn in the ALP’s side.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/youth-worker-to-challenge-labor-in-byelection-20080611-2p0g.html
My guess is Rudd threatened Neale with disendorsement unless she cleans up her act! What I found interesting was Julia Gillard taking a similar hard line to the boss, certainly not sticking up for the sisterhood. A lot of Labor people hate Belinda and her husband, they’d dearly love to see the back of both of them!
I’ll agree she’s hardly an attractive figure, but one should give her credit for winning a seat off the Liberals with a 7% margin, a sign that she’s an effective campaigner, or maybe it was just WORKCHOICES anger on the N.S.W Central Coast that helped her get over the line?
On comments above on how people can be made to realize the MSM are “cooking the books” with their comments?
I think the MSM are doing a pretty good job of undermining their own credibility by their outrageous statements. I mean , despite everything, Rudd still commands a massive lead in 2 PP & primary votes. No-one has changed their mind. OK he lost a little in approval, but he is still quite high.
Gov’t has a number of good performers on interviews including Rudd, Gillard, Roxon, Tanner, Shorten, Swan(now), and Combret still has to be exposed. They have measured and intelligent answers with plenty of political savvy. And Garret is Ok usually. This would I think goes a long way to neutralising the MSM comments as they usually get their say on fairly well listened to programmes.
Pensioners will get their rise in July and that will go a long way to discrediting the present well organised protests and help to discredit some of the people making this an issue.
But yes I think complaining does help as well.
I agree Rudd needs to fix the ABC.
Antony Green-Is it anger that is causing this bias or a desire that some people in the ABC may have to suck up to the Board?
Gday guys, first post back since the election – good to see the site still here (thanks William) and good to see people still posting.
I’m a little bemused by the MSM as of late. Is the large negative slants we are seeing across the board in many of the prints a response to Rudd’s perceived tight media management?
I see very little positive from todays stories – especially the Essential Market Reasearch poll or the clarification from Toyota of the critical nature of Oz investment.
I expected as much from Shanahan, Ackerman, Milne, Bolt, Albrechtsen et al, but this just seems to be more widespread.
Bias in the media should never be accepted and always complained about even if complaining has little effect. We should never get to the stage of just giving in because people get sick of seeing it or hearing about it.
Hi Antony, can you please tell me why the ABC story on Les Twentyman standing in Kororoit has a Google Map pointing to Broadmeadows?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/11/2271302.htm
Where’s Adam? Some months ago he wondered why the election of Belinda Neale was met with such cynicism. It only took her 6 months to show us why.
Gees, Barcelona Tonight’s Adopt A Pensioner must be really popular.
And you have to register before even being allowed to read what’s on the site.
And surely these pensioners are too poor to afford the internet ?
http://adopt-a-pensioner.yourwebspace.com.au/index.php
Speaking of ABC journalism, last nights Lateline ran a story on the decision to increase immigration intake to @300,000. (net immigration @200,000)
The Lateline piece strongly questioned the wisdom of reaching these levels and highlighted the negative long term impacts of absorbing 3,800 people per week on
rent
food
housing affordability
urban infrastrucutre
water supply
public transport
etc.
THe numbers are far in excess of our ability to absorb them and thank god, the ABC was prepared to run the story and run the risk of backlash (ie racism, little Australia etc)
“Lateline the Brave”, I say
559 Mr Squiggle – How many people were leaving this country each year for 1 or more years again Squig? By the way. there won’t be too many complaints from your side. Immigration ballooned under Howard.
So what’s the answer Squig? Stop immigration? We have an ageing population with many to leave the workforce over the next 5 to 10 years and we have difficulties finding skilled workers as it is. Our economy relies on growth, not stagnation. So provide us with your answers to the problem.
Mr S, 559 says…
The economy is expanding at around 3% pa – double the proposed increase in immigration (in percentage terms).
And besides, it is the ability to absorb the increased number, not the total!
You, apparently, were quite happy with the previous quota (Howard’s), were you not.
My Squiggle
I’m pretty dam sure there is nothing I can say that will change your mind.
Immigration policy was they only plus under the Liberals, they increased the intake along with the anti immigration rhetoric and labor never said boo; I just loved it, the anti immigration crowd got conned big time.
Every dam person in this country including the Aboriginals is an immigrant or comes from immigrant stock, get over it.
Now I know that there are those that want us to go back to cave dwelling but I am not one of them, I am with every elected government in this country, I want to see us have a good standard of living.
Yes all things mentioned are a problem, solving them will create employment for us all.
They couldn’t quite bring themselves to admit it was only a beat up in the Australian press.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-visit-drowned-out-amid-din-of-events-20080611-2p4t.html
And let me add to Antony’s self condemnation over his obvious bias;
Not only does he list the Nationals first nearly every time, he also has the ALP listed in bright red text!
And we all know that red is the colour of danger. Coincidence or psychological manipulation? – we’ll let the readers judge for themselves.
As for his Tory mathematics – what a disgrace! Notice how Antony “Leni Riefenstahl” Green only goes to one decimal place when he publishes the results? As any pseph worth their weight knows full well, if we look at the RAW electoral figures (not these doktored jobbies) we see quite clearly that in an overwhelming majority of cases, the Nationals get their results to one decimal place ROUNDED UP!
OVERSTATING THEIR TRUE LEVEL OF SUPPORT BY UP TO 400 VOTES!
Notice also his cunning plan to pre-empt his obvious bias with a jovial quip on Pollbludger, trying to distract us from his TRUE AGENDA? “Oh No – Antony couldnt be working for Crosby-Textor” say us, “Look, he’s having a joke about the coincidences on his own page that might lead to allegations of media bias” say us. Well don’t be fooled comrades, it’s all part of the cunning plan. Just like the way he changed his last name from Downer to Green!
How many have noticed that on election nights, when bad results come in for the Coalition, Antony’s computer suddenly has problems – but when the ALP starts having problems Antony’s on it in a flash and the computer miraculously has fixed itself?
You might be able to fool most of the people most of the time young Mr Green with your cool demeanor and veneer of political independence, but some of us know THE TRUTH and we PUT YOU ON NOTICE!
Comrades of the 101st Keyboard Division – break out the type writers, replace the ink ribbons, I smell a letter writing CRUSADE FOR TRUTH coming on!
Looks like ‘little Australia’ can influence world opinion
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/12/2272087.htm
Canada PM apologises to Canada’s aboriginal inhabitants for forced schooling in grim church schools where abuse seems to have been rampant.
Onya Kev
From today’s Age, on Gippsland:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/labor-defends-deal-with-exone-nation-candidate-20080611-2p56.html
‘….saying neither deserves its preferences…’
So let noone say that Labor signed Kyoto to curry favour with the Greens!!
It’d be interesting to know what you have to do (other than adopting the entire Green policy platform without question) to ‘deserve’ Green preferences.
Put them ahead of BB on the ticket? Pledge to the voters of Gippsland (timber country) that the ALP will veto the Gunns pulp mill and save the Tasmanian rainforests?
Honestly, for the Greens to imply by this statement that there is no difference between the Federal Labor and Liberal parties, is just silly.
They have earnt the contempt of the present Victorian State Government and looks like they want to make themselves irrelevant federally as well.
Hmm – the original boundary also cut between Moe and Morwell.
I have never met Belinda Neal but I did hand out ALP how-to-votes for her last election. What strikes me as curious is: (a) the almost indecent availability of a Liberal staffer JP to harvest 6 stat decs at the Iguana haunt; (b) their rapid withdrawal; (c) the subsequent litany of ‘corroborating evidence’ ‘proving’ diminished character (Soccergate, Freezergate) plus the appearance of other ‘aggrieved’ third parties, and (d) the reaction (”proves she’s guilty”)to Neal’s acknowledgement that she would learn to be more adroit in handling difficult situations.
Add to that unflattering photographs and virtually ignored stat decs authored by her guests supporting Neal’s account.
By the way, why did a member of staff follow John Della Bosca out to the car park? Is this the usual practice? Or just another element of the ambush?
Call me old fashioned, yea, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I smell a Liberal rat.
Hi Gary, Bryce and Charles,
My guess would be a net immigrant intake of @80- 100,000 per year is about right.
I’m not opposed to immigration, but I can still see reasons to question why we should reach record levels when inflation is such a problem
Instead of taking in @200,000 in one year, lets take two years and ease the pressures.
CC youre right there is certainly a witch hunt element to all this. My concern is that Rudd has reinforced the perception of Neal’s problems by the counselling decree. Howard in this situation, as part of his defend to the hilt policy, would have pointed out as you have that the stat decs signed by a Lib staffer have been withdrwan and their were opposing statements etc etc
It seems that Rudd will not have much tolerance for this sort of stuff.
According to Mark Latham, Tony Abbott was kicked out of Parliament for shaping up to fight a Labor politician. Anyone know the name of the Labor pollie?
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/06/26/1023864602092.html
I sent this e-mail to David Spears – “I’m just wondering if David Spears will be interviewing the head of Essential Research online poll this week which shows Labor stretching the gap to 58/42 TPP. I suspect not, it’s not projecting the
story you want it to.”
I received this reply:
“Gary,
We did the interview on Tuesday.
Sorry you missed it.
David.”
He’s right, I didn’t watch “Agenda” on Tuesday. Did anyone see this on “Agenda” last Tuesday?
Hmmm, must mean the Liberal honeymoon is over.
572 Andrew – Actually, Andrew, I think Rudd has worked out a way to protect Neal and himself from further political damage. Neal has been made the victim now, a victim of her inner demons, while Rudd has been seen as decisive and fair. Both win and the story fades. The media can produce as much “evidence” as they like now to back up what Rudd and Neal’s action. Had they roughed it out this “evidence” would be used to prod them into taking action, which would politically damaging.
GB, OK you got caught out this time, but lets keep up the fight!! Good to see that we are at least getting replies
GB, you may be right strategically, but it does confirm that Neal indeed has a problem. Now the restaurant incident is highly debatable and seems a beat-up but are we to assume that Neal DOES have a problem anyway??
Who cares if Belinda Neal has a problem? The good people of Robertson will make up their minds on her in 2/3 years time.
And Rx, its amazing how we can have so many failed pronoucements of the honeymoon being over (I’ve lost count?? 10) without any scutiny, apology, retraction by those responsible. Perhaps we should email Media Watch for what its worth??
Rx:
From a story published on 22 June 2000
“Hypocrites in the house”
Dennis Shanahan
Mr Abbott, standing in the aisle, began to yell back at the Labor cries of “disgrace”, “grub” and “get out”. One barb hit home – which Mr Abbot would not disclose, and the minister, renowned for winning an Oxford blue in boxing, bounded towards the Labor back benches. Speaker Neil Andrew shouted, “The minister will excuse himself from the service of the house”, thus suspending a minister for the first time in 40 years.
It doesn’t say who the member was.
In another article it says the member was Sid Sidebottom.
Mr Squiggle @ 571 – We’re loosing about 100K workers a year, and increasing, due to population aging, so your figures, at best, only maintain the status quo.
But the don’t address current labour shortages, which are really a skills shortage created by the indifference of the previous government. Unfortunately, that will take years to correct. Meanwhile a mate of mine has had 7 workers twiddling their thumbs all week because the earliest he can get an electrician to fix a machine that packed up last Saturday is tomorrow afternoon.
BTW-the 300,000 is the media’s scary headline figure. The increase in permanet migrants is only 37,500 more than Howard was bringing in.
Thanks LTEP 581 and 582. Good research! Ány links please?
Andrew #580. Agreed, they are tools who rely on clichés and a largely uncritical public.
Now if we still had Howardism in the party we would see them run the fear and xenophobe card. We will be over run by strange types not like us, so be fearful.
“Agreed, they are tools who rely on clichés and a largely uncritical public.”
That’s true Rx but the public are uncritical because they are apathetic, which also works for the government, as can be seen in the latest polling. Many of the negative issues are washing over the “great unwashed”, to use a term I don’t really like but you get my point.
I’d back Abbott in a boxing matchagainst Sid Sidebottom, the Mad Monk is a fit bloke!
All that migration over the Howard years with no provision for housing must have put price pressure on housing.
When we arrived here from Holland in ‘57 at least the SA Housing Trust was building houses like crazy, and my parents bought a house 2 years from arriving here, not bad with one of Mr Menzies’ credit squeezes being in effect
Go Fulvio on Sattler’s Blog
http://blogs.watoday.com.au/madashell/2008/06/pensioners_the.html#comments
Fulvio you bad arse
I’d love to see some of those comments directed at Howard Sattler being directed at “Barcelona Tonight”. They are classics.
At my local supermarket, you can get two cans of baked beans for the cost of one can of Kit-E-Kat. I can feed my children more cheaply than I can feed the cat. Can you please pass this information on to those poor pensioners?
Which reminds me of something my father once did…
He used to work for a wholesale grocery company, and one day a pet food salesman can in with some new brand, and claimed it was so nutritious even people could eat it. My father went and got a can-opener and asked him to demonstrate. Needless to say, the salesman didn’t prove true to his word.
No doubt, there are pensioners who feed their pets better than they feed themselves, but I don’t think governments can be blamed for this attitude…
Some previous Essential Research
Howard’s Loss a Generational Change in Australian Politics March 7, 2008
However the figures on the following table aggregated from 3 national polls EMC conducted last year indicate that the conservative parties’ strength is in the older voting demographic, and as it begins to die out the liberals will need to attract more and more voters with ALP or green voter identification to win government.
http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/NewsAnalysis/AnalysisIndex/HowardsLossaGenerationalChange/tabid/2203/Default.aspx
I think they mean literally die out.
The previous Essential Research Poll reported:
THE Federal Government has taken a whacking in the popularity stakes, just as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd predicted.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23799748-5005961,00.html
Mr Squiggle – One more crumb you might want to digest:
This was produced earlier this decade so increased immigration numbers in recent years may have upped the projected figure for the 2011-2020 decade a bit, but going from workforce growth of about 170,000/year to a little more than 12,500/year (without immigration) would pole-axe our economy in the 2020s decade.
Keiren Gilbert from Sky, who is travelling with Kev, gave him a big wrap this afternoon. Said he got diplomacy just right and that he and Japan PM got on real well, talked about whales, defense, trade etc and they even had a joke about a steak on the barbie at the lodge at Kev’s invitation.
whaaaaa! was that the whailing of msm having to reprint the front pages of their papers? Nah, they’ll still print that Kev has started WW3 with the Japanese and we’re all doomed!
583
MayoFeral Says: “….Meanwhile a mate of mine has had 7 workers twiddling their thumbs all week because the earliest he can get an electrician to fix a machine that packed up last Saturday is tomorrow afternoon….”
The “Advertiser” a few days ago had an article about an 18 year old [hence an adult] electronic engineering apprentice whose pay rate was $ 6.40 per hour.
The son of a friend of mine gave up his mechanics apprenticeship to go and stack shelves at Woolies where the pay rate was nearly double and the career path as good if not better in his estimation.
workNOchoices still [as of a week or 2 ago] operates in over 100,000 work sites.
Relevant?
Correction – the fact sheet was in fact produced in April 2006 so the projected 125,000 figure may take into account at least some of the big boost in immigration during the last 5 years of the Howard government.
So where’s Robb now? He should be out there congratulating the PM on successfully “repairing” the damaged relationship between Australia and Japan. Of course we know it never was damaged but it could be a good face saving tactic for the opposition.
Vera, #595
Likewise the Editorial writer on today’s The Age:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-asian-odyssey-of-kevin-rudd-from-queensland-20080611-2p1b.html?page=-1
Ah, but wait for Heather Ewart tonight. She should be able to turn positives into negatives.
592
Antonio Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
At my local supermarket, you can get two cans of baked beans for the cost of one can of Kit-E-Kat.
That’s all very well Antonio but some of those pensioners are buying the Fancy Feasts brand which is more expensive but offers delicacies such as Grilled Salmon Prime Filet – perfectly grilled salmon, delicately basted in a savoury broth.
Mmmmmm – makes my mouth water.
Oh, stop Steve or we’ll have people falsifying their birth records just so they can get on the pension early!
#601
Clearly, cat food subsidies are the way to win the pensioner vote in the next election. Perhaps Brendan Nelson could promise to remove the GST on pet food, and tax it at the same rate as people food (given that many Coalition-voting pensioners are eating pet food).
You’ll notice that some cat food is labelled “senior”, so clearly there’s already a big market for it in the Coalition’s only remaining demographic.
Mayo
While I don’t dispute the statistics you quote, I think such employment growth projections can be a little spurious when projected forward. The 1980s in particualr saw a huge increase in both casual/part-time employment, adn women remaining in the workforce. Areas showing the biggest increase were service industries such as child care, cleaning and even food where the work was previously unpaid in the home. We can’t have that revolution again, so I don’t think we have good reason to believe that employment growth in the future will be the same. The labor market economist Ironmonger has done a lot of work on this; worth reading.
Actual output from the economy grew far more slowly in this period and perhaps explains the decline in real wages through the 80s, which didn’t stop till the early 90s. I think the current reduction in unemployent is more due to the first cohort of baby-boomers entering retirement and the mining boom than anything to do with training or labor policy.
Bottom line – we are growing employment fast now but, regardless of who is in government, I’m not so sure this trend will continue at the same rate for long.
Some interesting cost comparisons here:
(from The Age) The cheapest hybrid available in Australia sells for more than $35,000
From the start of the year, in the USA (US dollar prices) this was the list price of a Toyota Prius:
Standard 4-door hatchback $20,950 US
Base 4-door hatchback $22,325 US
Touring 4-door hatchback $23,220 US
Given that our dollar is now trading at 95 cents to the US dollar, and the price of Toyota Prius’ has not gone down, the pricing police might well start asking questions about these vehicles. Either Toyota in the US are selling at a loss (ha!) or we are now paying over the odds here for these vehicles. Our dollar has not appreciated as much against the Yen as the US dollar, but it has still appreciated.
this is a letter to the editor of the OO –i don’t really expect a reply.
to the editor.
It’s with much regret my family and I will be cancelling our subscriptions to the Australian and all newsltd papers, I realise that the7 families involved –7 Australians and 7 Advertisers daily wont make much of a difference to your overall figures but it’s the only way we can protest about your constant Rudd bashing, all we need and can ask from our media is fair and balanced reporting, unfortunately your paper seems to have forgotten that there IS an opposition and it’s only by drawing attention to that hapless mob that they will be forced into taking stock of themselves and then giving us a viable alternative, since the wonderful Matt Price has died there isn’t a socalled columnist worth reading, Matt at least was so well balanced nobody could ever guess what party he voted for.
I think you’ll find I’m not the only person who thinks this way, I know of many others who are really fed up, your journos definately stick by the old adage not to spoil a good story with facts, maybe one day you and your story tellers will work out that we, the general public, unless we are fanatical party followers, don’t want bias either way, of course we want any government failings bought to light {a pity you didnt do that in the later Howard years} BUT we also expect the opposition to get a grilling as well, until you get rid of your stable of avid right wing journos and replace them with others such as Matt you’ll find this once proud paper’s credibility in the dirt, with Rudd, no matter what item is printed in this paper, if theres one negative line in it amid all the positives, that negative line is headlined.
The only reason I have persevered so far has been your excellent cryptic crosswords, but today, all I could think of after reading the plethora of Rudd bashing, is what the hell am I doing reading this crap, thats just it–I know its mainly crap, Shanahan has trumpeted the honeymoon is over umpteen times in the last 18 months, I would have thought that after his embarrassingly hysterical headlines last year about Howard’s so called resurrection after a minute 1% movement in the polls would have taught him and YOUR PAPER to be more realistic, the honeymoon will be over eventually but all of his trying to force it wont make it so, actually all it does with us is make us even more addicted to Rudd– but there it is, while he boasts being your political editor in chief it’ll be the same hopeless same old, same old.
I dont expect this letter or our opting out to make any difference –but if enough do it, as many have said to me they will, then maybe we can eventually get a factual balanced newspaper that’s something to be proud of.
Mrs. J Barnes, for the Barnes family.
Judy
Good letter and good decision; treat this publication as its quality merits.
I can’t believe the level of discussion here that focuses on media bias… I mean we all get it! Seriously…
$5.50 for half a kilo of prime mince today. It will feed two small dogs and 1 cat for two nights, so $2.75 per night. This is their treat because one of the dogs is sick and I put his pill inside a mince ball. Naturally if the other dog and the cat see mince, they have to have the same.
A tin of Fancy Feast is about $1.15 at our supermarket. Add in $1.60 for My Dog (serves two dogs) and we have, over two nights, $5.50 to feed the BB menagerie with pet food. Same price.
That same half kilo of mince with a large can of chopped tomatoes and some spices plus spaghetti would mean a big spag bol would cost around $8 and would feed 2 adults for three nights, running out to about $2.70 per night.
So there we have it: the animals eat like gluttons with mince for $2.75/night, with tinned food for the same, and the humans eat like wiseguys gone to the mattresses for $2.70 per night. Make that $50 a fortnight with some ice cream and toast for brekkie thrown in.
There’s no need for pensioners to eat dog food. In fact I’m thinking of applying to be dog myself. Spag bol, toast and ice cream every night can get awful monotonous.
Heh, the pill inside the mince ball will work only once
I was still at High School when the Australian first came out. It was a pretty good paper for quite some time.
609
Bushfire Bill Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
….There’s no need for pensioners to eat dog food….
And you know what BB I don’t believe for one minutre that any of them actually eat the stuff – unless of course they’ve got a screw loose which is quite possible. Certainly the pensioners who stripped off outside Flinders St station weren’t living on a small can of cat food per day. Some of them were pretty large suggesting a healthy appetite and too little exercise.
Judy,
I made a similar decision about the Australian in 2001 or 2002. I’d been a home delivery customer for about 10 years prior to that. My letter explaining my decision (not submitted for publication) was ignored – not even an acknowledgement.
I understand that my decision was easier – having access to the Age, even with its considerable failings. I’m of the newspaper junkie generation, and I still find it hard to break the dead tree habit, although the internet clearly makes such a decision (to do without a print newspaper) feasible.
As always you have provided a measured assessment of the situation.
BB @ 609: Very funny about wanting to be a dog….I don’t know if you ever watched the TV series red dwarf but your line……[blockquote]In fact I’m thinking of applying to be dog myself[/blockquote]…..brings to mind an episode where the computer suggested to one of the characters who wanted to hide his identity, that he have a procedure called a “roverostomy”, and produced a picture of a labrador to show how effective the procedure was.!!!!
Damn, I can never get those quotes to work.!
We get THE AUSTRALIAN delivered to our house every weekend. I disregard the political coverage in there(especially Shanahan’s garbage), and enjoy their sports, entertainment and magazine sections, which are always good to read.
614 –
.
617….Thank you…!
601, 602 603 and Bushfire Bill
Oh you lot are awful! Don’t know when I’ve laughted so much!
You made that pet tucker sound so good that I couldn’t control myself, just had a fight with Bad Billy (my cat) over a tin of Ultimates whitemeat tuna with flaked salmon.
damn! those pensioners sure know how to live!
Progressive, nup i’m not even going to get the weekend edition {im crying when i say that–goodbye my favourite crosswords lol} i will continue to get the Sunday Mail because my journo pal is their chief crime reporter and he keeps agitating about the so called “family”, besides it’s cheaper than buying the TV books.
LTEP, there IS massive bias and at least i feel better for getting it off my chest, i’ve had a lot to do with the media over the years and i know only too well how they can twist something innocent and make it into something else again, we’ve been getting the Australian since my kids were in uni and it’s a habit hard to break, if we dont talk about it and complain then we are as bad as they are for letting it happen without a protest, we may not change things but we can at least let our opinions be known.
On the topic of price differentials with the US, I recently went shopping online for a digital voice recorder (Olympus). Best price online in the US, $103, Australia $495. Exactly the same machine, almost 5 times the price. How the hell do they explain that, certainly not freight. And our $ is almost at parity. Reminds me also that our very own Monaro, rebadged as a Pontiac sells for about half the price in the US, and we make them! We are being royally screwed.
Vera, you talk about laugh, I am still smiling at your analogy of Rodent as the happy hooker in the Cross when the sailors hit town
Vera, that rodent quote of yours was the quote of the year, i’ve shown that one around with great glee.
Libs can’t take a trick at the moment.
“Today’s report confirms what many of us suspected, that due to a massive failure of the Howard Liberal Government’s quarantine systems, appropriate protocols were not followed.” The report says it is most likely the EI virus spread beyond Eastern Creek after being imported from Japan.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23853634-29277,00.html
Released just in time for Gippsland by election.
NEW South Wales Nationals MP Andrew Fraser has been ordered to pay $70,000 to a union boss over a defamatory letter sent to nurses ahead of last year’s state election.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23853270-29277,00.html
Poor Andrew, I think it will have to come out of his own pocket.
Basil & Judy
The Rodent’s sneering, shifty sideways look he permanently wore as he lied his rotten head off used to make my blood boil.
Basil @ 621, do you suppose the Free Trade agreement would have anything to do with it? Or does it have more to do with market size, tariffs? Does anyone else know why there are such price discrepancies?
Meanwhile more strife for the WA Libs, and Brian Burke is involved
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/12/2272777.htm
And here in WA the Libs are again doing what they do best – self flagelation
MP McGrath was accused of doing Brian Burke’s bidding by asking Brian’s questions in Parliament, Omodei calls him a liar and they almost come to blows in the Chamber, Buswell refuse to sack McGrath, Rob Johnson thinks McGrath is a disgrace and threatens to quit the shadow cabinet, Barnett thinks that it is all too much, and Buswell keeps blathering about how robust they all are.
Of course you wouldn’t know it unless you really, Trully, deeply, listened to the Channel 10 news, after a story about how the town of Harvey abatoir killed a few less beasts yesterday, how if they’d pre-booked the gas explosion in the North West they might have avoided it, and how some dog went under someone’s house.
Ah the West, a place of beauty, wealth and wankers.
Snap Frank. OK, you beat me by a whisker.
And The West will downplay it because McGrath was one of their own before entering Parliament.
The never ending saga of the Netball Association funding and the moving of the TAFE has become even more bizarre according to Tuesday’s Gippsland Times. Can’t wait to see what developments will be in tomorrow’s edition.
http://sale.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/sport-funds-uncertain/786096.aspx
But you said it so much better, I only linked to the ABC story
But at least CH 10 didn’t report on the Gas “Crisis” causing pensioners to die due to lack of heating, unlike TWAToady 
It is some time since I visited this site. It used to be a site that dealt (fairly) rationally with politics and psephology.
Now it just seems to be ALP supporters bleating about so-called media bias. Get a life. The media is not biased against the ALP or against the Libs. The media just enjoys bashing whomever is in power.
For 11 years that was Howard (I don’t remember anyone complaining about the MSM’s obsession with 1. Iraq 2. AWB 3. Howard refusing to say “sorry” 4. children overboard 5. many other examples). Now it is Rudd’s turn. Get used to it.
I got into an argument with a bloke over the weekend. He was saying that the pensioners (he is not a pensioner) were completely overlooked in the budget. I was trying to explain to him that the Rudd Labor government were giving the pensioners more than Howard at his last budget or at any of his previous budgets.
His response was that I was being ridiculous “as if the pensioners would be complaining if they were getting more money” he laughed.
I said to him that they are complaining because it is not their hero Howard who was giving them the increase in allowances.
I hope that those pensioners complaining realise over the course of the next financial year how much more they receive under PM Rudd and feel like FOOLS!
Frank @ 627. Isn’t it passing strange that different parts of Oz have these weird regional variations on broader national themes? How to tear yourself apart, W.A. style vs. N.S.W style, whether Tory or Labor. It seems to mirror the slight but discernible language variations which have emerged over time, but have more to do with the historical and geographic variables. If there’s any proper psephy’s hanging around, such as that shameless purveyor of ABC election bias, Mr Antony Green ( and, really, Antony, the name’s such a give away), or historians, even, has there been any research in this area, i.e., State/regional differences in how political parties evolve?
633 center
Or how much political capital they will have spent when people realize that the pensioners that complained took them for a ride. Bit like the greens, you can go one step too far.
Centre the opposition with their MSM cheer squad, aided by dial-a-lib-pensioner, have done well to create a perception about pensioner’s treatment by the budget. I dont think Rudd and co have done enough to counter this. My prediction is that they will do something more obvious next budget
Stuart @ 633
You got it right. There is no media bias against the Libs. Never has been
Stuart, welcome back, and it would be great if you could stay around because this site does need more intelligent debate. The problem around here is we’ve had the likes of Glen and Tabitha carrying the Tory torch which has not made for much rational discussion.
I take your point. The incumbent does get alot of scutiny, and so they should. The issue here is balance though. For example, in the year leading up to the election we were continually told that the rudd honeymoon was over and Howard would win. Any poll movement in the coalition’s direction was trumpetted and movements back were ignored. Whilst the issues you mention did get scrutiny, the coverage was quite compartmentalised and it was not portrayed a government in crisis or trouble, even when they were behind in the polls.
Now we have a government that is miles ahead in the polls but stories about crises and problems as if they are in trouble, when in fact there is no contest.
637 “My prediction is that they will do something more obvious next budget”
Or maybe the one after since it will be an election year and these things are easily forgotten if delivered too soon in the electoral cycle.
There is an interesting piece in the current DISSENT magazine
by Ian McAuley who “shows by reference to Australian and international statistics that the greater the dependence on private health insurance the higher the total level of spending on health without any discernible benefit in terms of health outcomes.”
http://www.dissent.com.au/index.htm
Unfortunately you will have to buy the print version at the Newsagency. It does have a graph demonstrating that the higher total health care outlays are the higher the percentage that health care is financed by private insurance in that country. The USA is way out on the edge.
It does have the cute quote:
Those on the ‘right’ of politics, who are so quick to condemn the ‘nanny state’, have no difficulty in rendering people dependent of the ‘nanny corporation’.
Stuart @ 633
Agree it’s the media’s role to keep those in power accountable – but the Murdoch outlets are providing a dichotomy of reporting perspectives which any objective reader couldn’t help but notice.
BTW I’m not suggesting that pensioners dont have it tough, because they do. The issue here is that since Rudd’s election their pensions will increase with indexations, all bonuses were retained and I recall the utilities part was increased. So why so much noise since the election??
And the Utilities and Internet Allowance was extended to ALL Pensioners and Carers, and not just restricted to Age Pensioners.
Of course the MSM is biased. You would only have to check out Piers-Dessicated Rice Bubble-Akerman’s or Shama-hana-hana-ham’s (however the hell he spells it) columns and the like to realise that.
Why don’t the opposition and it’s MSM cheer squad fight Rudd on good conservative values?
Oh… they don’t have any! LOL
571 Mr Squiggle
I agree immigration should be used as a tool to control inflation and economic activity. I would suggest the right level is as hard to predict as the right level to set interest rates, and in my view it should be done in the same way, in fact why not expand the RBA’s role.
“This month we are dropping interest rates by 2 percentage points and increasing the skilled immigration rate by 100,000″.
And on that front I think Labors recent changes are about right, I think next year we will see a decrease in interest rates and an increase in immigration. But who knows.
643
Andrew Says:
“So why so much noise since the election”
all that dog food has got the buggers barking
Stuart, i suffer from severe chronic acute inertia {gee that sounds great} in other words i’m as lazy as, it takes a lot to make me pop my head up and push myself into taking any action, or come to think of it do much blogging,BUT there comes a time when even this old dear says ENOUGH!, i certainly dont want a media bias for Rudd, in the long run that won’t help him, all governments should be kept on their toes, all i want and expect from our media, be it print or TV is honest reporting, just a modicum of fair reporting will do, i KNOW what standing up and being counted can do and unless we start to be counted we will continue to be saddled with the one sided bias we have now.
ive tweaked a few tails in the past when it was important enough to me, gosh i’m barely literate but i’ve had a paper my daughter and i wrote read out at a U.N. symposium by our then state A.G.—my dragon slaying days are well past but at least this old dear can still raise a little whimper now and again, so i guess it wasnt much of a whimper cancelling the papers, but at least I feel better for it {except for losing my bluddy crosswords}–and i WILL continue to bog about media bias where i see it.
633
stuart
Unfortunately the media didn’t give Howard the beating he deserved before the election so the Liberal party didn’t start fixing their problems. After the election the media is not giving the Liberals the beating they deserve so they are not fixing their problems.
I often sit and wonder,why would anyone from Labor would complain about the current media circus:
1) The media is discrediting itself so media activity when something is wrong will have little effect.
2) See the first paragraph.
good one Charles, to have a good strong government we need a good strong opposition to keep them on their toes, unless the media presses the opposition to renew themselves and get rid of the dead wood and bring in new talent then we’ll end up with a copy of state politics, the only policies the current opposition can think of is to try and spoil or block anything the government tries to do be it good or otherwise, where are their big ideas?? 5 cents off petrol, pshaw!utter crap, they should be clever enough to pass the government bills and come up with different ideas of their own, thats exactly what Rudd did, again though we turn the full circle, the media isnt needling them and demanding better, instead it’s cosying up to them and as far as the coalition is concerned alls right with their world and they’ll climb up the poll ladder eventually, it’s like the umpire wearing one teams colours, that side will never ever improve because they’re not forced into it.
thats my rant for the night, this old fossel will now settle back and watch the blogs go by.
Judy youre right, the opposition actually needs the focus and criticism to improve, so it in fact actually good for Labor for the MSM not to change. Still frustrating though. And good on you for your OO letter.
Charles, 649 – very sage observation.
If Howard had been critiqued (by the msm) responsibly he may well have adjusted his position on many issues and prevailed in 2007. As well, their attacks on Labor were not heard by the electorate. They were, unintentionally and unknowingly, sowing the seeds of Howard’s ignominious dumping.
The current situation shows they have learned little. The attacks on Labor (particularly Murdoch writers) have no effect as long as the alternative is so inept (witness the polls).
Rudd will climb back 2 or 3 points next Monday night after his impressive visit to Japan and decisive handling of the Neal (non-)affair. Can you imagine Nelson cutting down, say, bully-boys Tuckey or Heffernan for inappropriate behaviour? Not on your life.
Says a lot, eh, about the alternative.
Rudd should go easy on Nelson.
Stuart @ 633. I don’t think anyone here would do anything other than welcome a debate on the interaction between the reporting of the MSM and voting behaviour, particularly if it was backed up with some research. It’s something that certainly interests me. That I happen to be more likely to vote Labor or Green, is irrelevant to the questions around these relationships, if they exist. That the site has somehow become polluted by being more frequently visited by particular leaning types of folks is also probably more a sociological observation, in both directions.
Mr Morgan seems to be a regular chap nowadays. What are the chances of another poll tomorrow? And what are the odds of some bad analysis of the results?
judy barnes – I suspect that half the problem is that some in the media, especially those that often get cited here, see themselves as the Opposition and keepers of the flame.
And your post about giving the OO the flick has finally motivated me to do the same to the only Murdoch rag I still bought, the Sunday Mail. I know you have a soft spot for it, but the double dose of Milne in last week’s was a column too far. I’ve mainly been buying it for the TV guide insert anyway and I’m sure I can find a suitable alternative if I get off my lazy arse.
MayoFeral @ 655: there are TV guides on the web/net.”google” tv guides and refine search for pages from Aus .It works for me.
I watch tv on the computer and use this guide
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/tv-guide/?hour=18&min=8&date=12&mon=06&year=2008&next=1213268400
What about that Brandis on Q&A tonight!
He was looking down the camera with a straight face saying that Howard had done more for the whales from the slaughtering by the Japanese than Rudd, and that Howard had given more funding to public schools than private!
The audience wanted to throw their chairs at him LOL.
Thanks sondeo, Kina. But I subscribe to a fairly detailed electronic TV guide that I use to program my PVR a week ahead. However, I still prefer to peruse a dead wood version at leisure. It seems to be a quirk of us ancients. We still like the feel of paper.
who was Brandis calling the lying rodent?
Chris Pyne on Q&A next week
The audience WILL throw chairs
Kina, George Brandis is famous for labelling Howard as the Lying Rodent back in the late 80’s I think.
Personally I like Keating’s “Dessicated Coconut” best. Also I reckon Dessicated Rice Bubble suits Akerman perfectly.
What a shambles Q&A was again tonight. Jones should hand the show over to Jenny Brockie and then it might actually become a useful forum for public debate. Goward fires off more cheap shots per minute that any other current politician but none of them anywhere near a bullseye – she comes across as being of average intelligence at best which surprises me considering the jobs she’s held before politics. Maybe she didn’t win those jobs on merit? Had to laugh when Brandis tried to brush aside his infamous naming of the Rodent. For than one George we’ll always thank you. Joel Fitzgibbon impressed me with his mild mannered style and connection with the general audience.
661
Thomarse Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Chris Pyne on Q&A next week
Gee, I hope he gets asked which is his favourite steam bath.
Brandis is typical of the Liberals: arrogant, toffee nosed, up himself, self important, private school educated, lawyer.
I agree Q&A is an unmitigated shambles, usually rescued by which ever Labor Govt. Minister is appearing! Tony Jones is appalling, the number of free kicks that man gives the conservatives is outrageous!
Well summed up Steve K.
I like it (Q&A).
Centre @ 648 – the sad part is that Brandis probably genuinely believes both propositions, just as apparently almost none of his colleagues understood that workers could be worse off under SerfChoices. Indeed, their continued reluctance to abandon it suggests that most of them still haven’t fully grasped that point.
Will he be asked about his second jobn as the Flight CEntre Captain ??
http://www.flightcentre.com.au and check out the picture of the pilot
LOL Frank. At least the bloke in the ad is better looking.
Oh FFS by “Their” ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/13/2273294.htm
There used to be a leader of the opposition named Nielson, and a shadow treasurer called, I think from memory, Termbills?
There was also a portly spokesman for something or other called El Hockian.
Whatever happened to them?
MayoFeral, gawd i rarely read past the sports section, the TV insert and letters to the editor of the “Sunday Scream”, my main link with it is my pal Nigel and his expose’s on Von Einam, though as he generally rings me saturdays to let me know what he’s writing i could forgo it, we go back a long way to when he was a cub reporter a bit wet behind the ears, Nigel is that rare animal–a down to earth honest journo, even a good part of SAPOL trusts him, i like to think that being close to us over the years has given him a different more humane perspective on things, i’ve seen him through his young heartbreaks and he’s cried with us in the past, it’s wonderful to see the mature family man he’s become, if he was in politics i’m sure we would have had another Matt Price, anyway the “Sunday Scream” will eventually go the way of the others when i get off my lazy butt and look for an alternative TV book, i’ll miss my sports section though, i’m a Crows tragic lol and i love swearing and cursing at Rucci’s one eyed Power rambles.
So much for the beauty of part time work for female employees:
“THE slowing economy appears to be taking its toll on females in the workforce with data showing that nearly all those who lost jobs last month were women.
In another sign that higher interest rates are working to slow economic activity, the number of employed people fell for the first time in 19 months, by almost 20,000.
Of the 19,700 jobs lost, 19,600 were lost by women and only 100 by men.”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/business/19700-lose-jobs-only-100-men/2008/06/12/1213283193001.html
#610:
Actually no, especially if the pills are “Happy Pills” (prednisone, for an inflamed neck disk). Happy pills make them contented and hungry. They’ll eat anything.
Bob (the dog in question) is a real lean, mean fightin’ machine. Legs like chicken wings, a bark like a Rottweiler and a heart like Phar Lap. Weighs all of 6 kilos, all of it concentrated hatred (when it comes to other dogs).
After a course of Happy Pills he goes up to 7 kilos. He becomes a stomach on four legs. Even sometimes lets other dogs walk by in the street without being barked at.
Here’s a tip: for the first pill (which bob never wants to take) I get one of those cheap nylon syringes from the chemist (30 cents), pour in 10 mils of milk, and the pop the pill into the syringe. Shake well until the pill dissolves (usually about 1 minute). Then poke the end of the syringe between his side teeth and squeeze gently until all the milk (plus pill) has gone into his mouth. There’s hardly ever any spillage and the whole lot gets ingested. After that Bob’s walking around scraping the cat’s bowl, looking under chairs for dog chewies and generally hungry for a month. That’s when the mince balls come in.
I showed the syringe method to my vet (who prefers the gag-and-pop method of pilling recalcitrant dogs). He liked the ease of it so much he uses the technique himself now. No trauma to the dog and you don’t get bitten on the fingers.
Another embarrassing revelation about the DellaBosca/Neal affair in the SMH this morning:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/dear-me-della-penned-iguanas-apology/2008/06/13/1213283202681.html
It seems (confirmed in article) that Della Bosca wrote his own apology issued by Iguanas management. Given the obvious potential for intimidation or manipulation of management by him, this means there is no credible alternative view to that of the staff.
While I was delighted to see Howard go and am happy with Rudd’s performance to date, I cannot agree with other pro-labor bloggers here that this is a non-issue. This will damage Labor in NSW, and Federally unless there is action. If six different people signed statutory declarations that the behaviour of the figures in question was offensive and involved bullying using their parliamentary powers then that is unethical conduct. Unless someone can prove that those six were the local chapter of Young Liberals, they have a right to have their complaint taken seriously. If they were threatened it is valid for the police to investigate. Letts not defend the indefensible, or Labor’s claims to teh high moral ground will soon be destroyed. This is not a media beat up.
Soc, their complaint is being taken seriously. The cops are investigating.
Too many “ifs” in your post.
The truth will out.
Everyone has an uppity waiter story. Just like everyone has a bullying MP story.
Today’s DAILY TELEGRAPH: Rumours of a coup against Iemma in New South Wales, moves to install either John Watkins or Carmel Tebutt as Premier and Nathan Rees as Deputy.
Socrates: Della Bosca has to go, NOW, and I’d bet Neal is disendorsed before the next election, Labor can find a better candidate for Robertson!
675
Socrates Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 8:10 am
…It seems (confirmed in article) that Della Bosca wrote his own apology…
I don’t have a strong opinion for or against Della Bosca – I live in Victoria and don’t follow state politics in NSW all that closely. However, his comment that it’s not unusual for the person seeking an apology to actually approve the wording of the apology before it’s issued sounds reasonable to me. Maybe it’s normally done through lawyers but that’s a technicality. Of course few, if any of the opinion pieces will acknowledge his involvement in the wording of the apology as a reasonable thing and wil be represented as another example of his stand over style. He’s in a no win situation.
I think Della Bosca’s position as a minister is untenable, but Iemma won’t sack anyone right now, he needs the votes of the entire cabinet to get electricity privatisation through the parliament! We in N.S.W deserve a much better government, but one has little confidence we’d get any better from O’Farrell and the Liberals.
More evidence of the Liberals running dead in Gippsland by election.
“Liberal candidate Rohan Fitzgerald did not return calls made to him on this topic.
However, in relation to the results from Streetbeat, it seems that whichever party is willing to increase the number of shops in Sale will most likely win the 18-25 vote.”
http://sale.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/youth-apathy-over-federal-election/786120.aspx
writing your own apology is not a good luck. Why do it? How smart is this guy??
sorry look
despite this, though from a non-NSW perspective this does seem like a massive beat-up. I though the stat decs signed by a Liberal JP had been withdrawn?? There is enough doubt about what happened to make it hard to judge and does not seem like a hanging offence
NSW ALP seem like they need an extreme makeover fortunately or not their opposition needs it too
Here’s more lightweight offerings from the MSM
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2008/gippsland/
Antony from the stories in the local paper it would appear that the Libs haven’t really got into this campaign in Gippsland at all. The Friday edition of the Gippsland Times hasn’t been posted on line yet but the Tafe moving/Netball Association issue tends to dominate the paper.
A very reasonable analysis there of Gippsland. The fact that there have only been 4 Country/Nats MPs over the course of 86 years is testimony to the resistance to reform and revive the Nationals. I think they’ve got a reasonable chance to do that in the coming years, with a handful of ‘new’ or ‘fresh’ faces.
The sticking point to this is of course, Senator Boswell, who should come clean on his promise of resigning part way through his term.
685
Antony Green
FFS Antony, can ya put in a bit more effort next time!
Thats we pay you the BIG BUCKS! over there at *OUR ABC* ya know!
g*ddamn MSM lightweight
As far as the Della Bosca story goes, it wouldn’t do NSW Labor any harm at all if both Della Bosca and Iemma depart the scene. Three years to the next state election and a fresh start now may just be the filip they need.
I’m not convinced Federal Labor will be hurt by this though. Rudd has done the right thing here which has been recognised as such by no other than Fatty O’Barrel himself on Sky Noos. He has also been given credit for his actions by political journalists, something they have been loathe to do in recent times.
Steve Lewis, friend of Peter Costello, thinks Peter would make the next election very difficult for Rudd. Please Peter take the leadership, Labor needs to extend its majority. What are these journalists on? Why do they think Costello is popular?
#633 Well said, Stuart. As a journalist myself, I get absolutely pilloried on this site if I ever attempt to defend the media over anything. The media frequently gets it wrong, and some journalists, and media outlets, do show bias, but the media-bashing on this site is a bit over the top.
I began commenting on this site because I really enjoyed its political discussion. But now it’s all about the MSM bias and conspiracies. Politics is playing second fiddle to discussion of media. I get quite enough media discussion at work – I don’t need it in my spare time.
If Poll Bludger wants to be a real alternative to political discussion in the MSM, it needs to have actual political discussion, rather than endless critiques of what the MSM are writing/broadcasting.
getting off the Dellabella stuff for a sec
I thought this article was interesting.titled
“US Senator backs PM’s nuke plan”
“PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd’s proposal for an international commission on banning nuclear weapons has received high-level support from one of the most influential US campaigners against nuclear proliferation, former senator Sam Nunn – but has been met with silence from the White House.
The former senator, who has been mooted as a possible vice presidential running mate to Democratic nominee Barack Obama, has been urging action on the spread of nuclear weapons alongside former secretaries of state George Schultz and Henry Kissinger, and former secretary of defence William Perry, for the past 18 months.
“We’re about to write to Kevin Rudd and tell him what a great idea it is,” said John Loretz, the group’s program director.”
http://www.theage.com.au/national/us-senator-backs-pms-nuke-plan-20080612-2pqg.html
also interesting was the last paragraph outing another sneeky Bush arse licking deal done by the Rodent
“Meanwhile, Science Minister Kim Carr, in Washington, confirmed that cabinet would soon consider the Government’s attitude to remaining part of the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership. Australia signed up to the controversial Bush initiative last year alongside Lithuania, Bulgaria, Jordan and a number of other small states. It was not publicised by the Howard government.”
Following on from the SBS program and the DISSENT mag article does anyone know if there is any comparative data out there on the health systems of the devleoped countries?
McCain backs Rudd’s Pacific plan
“Prime Minister Rudd is a very talented individual and I had the pleasure of meeting with him in Washington,” he said.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23856967-1702,00.html
Dolly will be going blue in the face! “no he’s not (pout pout) I’m more talented and I speak French and anyway he’s just a big show off… look at me look at me!!”
LOl
Morgan is out for those interested
Phone poll 56/44
F2F 59/41
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4300/
691 Antonio & 633 Stuart. Firstly, I don’t recall anyone putting any limits on what people talk about here in regard to politics. Secondly, the MSM has gone way over the top to the extent it has been difficult to find one journalist or organisation that has been fair and balanced. At least during Howard’s time he could rely on Piers, Shanahan, Bolt and Janet A to name just a few to always support him (up to near the very end), no matter what he did. Name one journalist supporting Rudd to that degree. Name a paper that shows Labor the same support as The Australian supports the Liberals.
Personally, I’m not going to sit back and think of England when I see injustice being done, not for you or anyone else.
I t will be interesting to see if Morgan gets a run in MSM over the next couple of days, given the “fall” in support.
Gary
What do ya reckon the odds of “Honeymoon is Over” getting another run
Vera, I’d like be as sure of winning tattslotto. With those “awful” figures it’s sure to come up, even from those who right off Morgan as a joke when the numbers go against them.
691
Antonio
Perhaps the noise has got so high because the coverage has got so bad.
Bushfire Bill Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 8:06 am
#610:
Heh, with my chihuahua bitch I used to try and hide heartworm tablets inside her favorite food, chicken hearts. Worked a few times but eventually would see on the bottom of her food dish everything gone but the @#$% heartworm tablet
At present I have a crossbred terrier bitch from the Lonsdale pound. Will eat pretty much anything, the toes out of any socks she gets her hand, errr teeth into. If needed, will try your syringe trick
Poor Morgan, he’s only a bit relevant when his polls show a big change toward the coalition. I’d assume that 63/37 going to 59/41 really IS the end of the honeymoon
OMG The Honeymoon must be over, Morgan says so!
Even the lower figure of 56-44 is annihilation territory for the Libs. Newspoll next week will be interesting to see the 2PP and Leaders ratings.
Will Nelson climb above his historic high of 17%.?(…which actually means 83% want someone else other than him.)
The 56/44 though is the oppositions best poll EVER isnt it, and its still a whopping 12% behind. Oh dear
BTW, cant find this poll getting any coverage yet online, not even OO
Maybe David Speers will help out or even steve Lewis.
Andrew: The MSM ignore Morgan polls, whatever the results! They only care about Newspoll, ACN and Galaxy! But I guess if anyone will start bleating about a Liberal comeback, it’ll be Mr Spears
Spears might have a nice, filled with cliches, cosy chat with Gazza on Sky?
Just on Spears, when doing crosses to Gilbert for Rudd OS trip reports, you can tell by the look on his face that he hates the happy positive reporting of his colleague.
Progressive the OO at least on-line covered some Morgan polls when they shifted to Howard, as did news.com.au
Morgans headline, “ALP Support Down After Cabinet Leak on Petrol Strategy as Petrol Price Soars – But Would Still Win the Federal Election”. is erroneous. The poll after the cabinet leak showed an INCREASE in support to 63/37. A poor attempt to explain the latest shift. The phrase “would still win” implies the election would be close. perhaps “easily win” might be more appropriate.
Spears will never live down being Howard’s chosen pet during the last election campaign, the man can hardly claim to be an objective political commentator.
Ackerman, Bolt and Shanahan at least don’t pretend they aren’t Liberal Party supporting hacks!
Morris Iemma holding a news conference at 2.30PM: Could Della Bosca be sacked, asked to stand down, or will Iemma once again express confidence in his embattled minister? Stay tuned!
I remember Speers very clearly during the last election campaign looking into the camera, smiling adoringly and saying, “You can never right off the Prime Minister” in regard to Howard losing his seat.
Never understood why Speers, an up and coming presenter hitched his wagon to Howard when all signs were Howard was going down. What a stupid stupid career move
http://media.theage.com.au/?rid=38612&sy=age&source=theage.com.au%2F
Video stream of the Iemma press conference
Slick move by Obamam
“Barack Obama has shown the stunning power of the Internet for political fundraising. Now he is fighting its darker side as a vehicle for “smears” against his bid for the White House, unveiled an interactive website to debunk false rumours peddled by email and right-wing media outlets.
The site at http://www.fightthesmears.com was created after one recent, and thus-far unfounded, assertion that Obama’s wife Michelle had been caught on tape slurring white people.”
http://news.smh.com.au/technology/obama-combats-darker-side-of-internet-politics-20080613-2pzl.html
I think we saw a fair bit of this during the last campaign when links and photos were posted highlighting false information and quotes. Most of it was from the labor side and it wasn’t until after the election that the libs and nats realised that the power of net for spreading information and combating misinformation.
Rod, wrong thread, and I’ve posted about this on the US election one! A good move for Obama I think
Internet restrictions at work prevent me from watching the video stream of the Iemma press conference. What’s happening?
Steve K, I’m realising just how sad we are, but I am in the same boat, and I want to know!!
Sky News – della bosca being stood down not sacked while police investigation contiues
ABC news- Della Bosca is standing aside
Andrew
Not so much wrong thread, as more Obama copying strategy from Australia.
As I noted we saw a lot of it during the last campaign here in Australia, significant ones where when Howard and his supporters said he never promised to keep interest rates low. Within a day there were PDF’s of the lib pamphlets and sound recordings from the previous elections.
There were also other significant postings relating to interest rates, inflation, unfair dismissals, welfare for the rich and alternative energy.
Also concerted efforts in the smear campaign against Rudd, especially in regards to the Scores incident where the lib journos were suggesting he was asked to leave after touching one of the dancers.
As I mentioned it appears the libs and nats only realised the power of the net after the election, but judging from most of the comments they still do not fully understand it.
Eg Mostly they post repetitive schoolboyish “Rudds a dud” type comments or continue to post half facts or innuendo without any links.
Iemma is standing aside Della Bosca for the moment, but still expressing support for him, so not a complete sacking from the ministry: about what I predicted, the Premier is as weak as piss, to put it bluntly!
hey Antonio, one of my family’s close pals is a senior newsltd journo–even he is scathing on some of the media coverage, gosh, i could tell you some horror stories about the way the media treats people they think of as fair game, thats why i take the Della Boscagate with a huge cynical pinch of salt, a senior Advertiser journo became like a foster dad to me and mine and we grieved for our loss when he died, saying that journos like him and our Nigel are few and far between, the feral pirahnas i’m afraid are the main lot.
i’ve already had my whinge about media bias and i can promise you i wont fight with you about any sort of media from now on–except if you laud Barcelona Tonight.
Progressive, I disagree. Given that the stat decs signed by a liberal member have been withdrawn, the club has apologied (albeit it drafted by DellaBosca) and that there are witnesses that say nothing occurred, there is enough doubt to stand down rather than sack pending the police investigation
Della Bosca drafting the apology: that looks very dodgy!
Of course he and his wife wouldn’t be in this mess if they’d kept their traps shut and calmly moved tables!
I reckon there is going to be a 39.74% swing to Liberal in the Robertson by-election later this year.
Agree it looks dodgy and he should have made them do the apology themselves. Dont you think though there is enough doubt about the incident to wait for the police investigation??
What strikes me as more bizarre though is the way the media decides some conduct is bad (Della Bosca) but barely raise a concern about bigger things like overboard, WMD, AWB, Hicks, Haneef etc. Getting angry (allegedly) at a restaurant cant be compared to these bigger issues surely, and no ministers were sacked because of them
I cannot see the police investigation into the Della Bosco matter going anywhere really.
It will come down to “he said/ she said” and no real evidence to legally prove anything – something the msm – the terrorgraph in particular don’t worry about – unless they are ones in question.
Della Bosco and wife should be challenged etc on what occurred, but we are now into the 6th day of front page headlines etc. Did our involvement into the illegal iraqi war etc etc ever receive such intense coverage?
I think it was walter cronkite – the veteran US TV journalist, who when asked what he thought of the aussie media during a trip here in the 1960’s replied – “Too many reporters & not enough news ! ”
Well walter, we are getting virtually no news these days – just nonsense.
The LNP unclear as to their current stance on IR laws and I am sure this will again become a negative issue for them come election time.
For those with an interest in unfair dismissal laws – some comparisons
USA
The United States of America (‘USA’) has limited termination protection for employees. Employment contracts can contain protection expressly or implicitly through employer policies or employer representations. However, most non-union employees in the USA are employed under ‘employment at will’ contracts. These contracts retain employees for an indefinite period of time. Employers can dismiss employees at will for any lawful reason. In essence, the doctrine of employment at will enables an employer to terminate their employee for a good reason, bad reason, or no reason at all. A reason is lawful providing it does not breach any express or implied terms of the employment contract or breach any employment protection statutes.
These statutes do not address dismissals, which under the WRA, are generally protected by unfair dismissal. The USA statutes only consider the equivalent to the Commonwealth’s unlawful dismissal protection. Unlawful dismissal aims to protect employees against being dismissed due to their sex, disability or other grounds. Unfair dismissal focuses upon protecting employees from dismissals which are unfair, unjust or unreasonable. USA employers can dismiss employees for any other reason, for example, if the employer does not like the employee’s car.
Australian employers with less than 100 employees or where the employee has been employed for less than six months will have the same power as USA employers under Work Choices to dismiss employees without reasons or with bad reasons. Otherwise, under the WRA employees are entitled to reinstatement, or compensation in lieu there of, if they demonstrate that they were unfairly dismissed.
GERMANY
Unlike Work Choices, German employers must provide reasons when ever they dismiss employees. In Germany the Civil Code[54] and the Protection Against Dismissal Act (the ‘PADA’) require all employers to provide their employees with reasons for their dismissal. Section 1 of the PADA requires all dismissals to be socially justified.
A significant difference between the Commonwealth and Germany is the access threshold to unfair dismissal. The Civil Code and s 23 of the PADA restrict unfair dismissal legislation to companies with five or more employees, not including vocational trainees and marginal part-time workers. Between October 1996 and January 1999 the threshold limit was lifted to 10 employees. This alteration in the threshold provided material for research into the effect of unfair dismissal protection on businesses. Research presented at the European Association of Labour Economist’s 2004 Conference found that there was no clear evidence that the alteration had any positive or negative impact on businesses.
CANADA
Canadian employees, who are employed on indefinite contracts and have not given their employers grounds for summary dismissal, cannot be dismissed without reasonable notice or a reasonable severance package. What constitutes reasonable notice is determined:
with reference to each particular case, having regard to the character of the employment, the length of service of the servant, the age of the servant, and the availability of similar employment, having regard to the experience, training and qualifications of the servant.
In addition to the notice periods, Canadian employers cannot dismiss employees in bad faith. The Canadian Supreme Court has provided employers must act in good faith when dismissing employees. Writing for the majority in Wallace v United Grain Growers Ltd, Justice Iacobucci explained this requirement as:
at a minimum, I believe that in the course of dismissal employers ought to be candid, reasonable, honest and forthright with their employees and should refrain from engaging in conduct that is unfair or is in bad faith by being, for example, untruthful, misleading or unduly insensitive.
If an employer breaches the doctrine of good faith, then they will be held to have dismissed the employee wrongfully. Damages for wrongful termination are awarded to place the employee in the same position as they would have been had reasonable notice been given. In Australia s 654 of the WRA entitles unfairly dismissed employees to reinstatement or damages in lieu of reinstatement. In Canada, wrongfully dismissed employees are only entitled to damages and have no entitlement to seek reinstatement.
Work Choices will require employees to have worked for an employer for six months before they are eligible for unfair dismissal. In Canada employees are eligible to claim a breach of the doctrine of good faith at any time. Indeed, it is not even necessary for an employment relationship to have developed! In Kilpatrick v Peterborough Civic Hospital an employee of 30 years standing had been approached over a six year period by a headhunting firm on behalf of a competitor.[66] The employee resigned and the competitor did not make an offer. Whilst the competitor had made no express inducements or offers, the competitor was held liable for not acting in good faith. The employee was awarded 30 months wages in damages
“Of course he and his wife wouldn’t be in this mess if they’d kept their traps shut and calmly moved tables!”
If that is all this is about surely we are looking at making a mountain out of a mole hill.
It’s amazing how the offence now is how the apology was drafted. By the way it is not uncommon for both parties to have a say in drafting an apology, particularly through lawyers.
I’m just hoping the media come out of this with egg on their faces but I’m not holding my breath.
I wonder if Della Bosca is going to conduct the investigation into his conduct: he’ll do what he damn well pleases given that he runs the show. Iemma is a gutless tool.
The NSW Teacher’s Federation is no doubt rolling around the ground laughing and enjoying the delights of schadenfreude re. Della’s predicament.
Della Bosca is representative of the crook state of affairs in NSW: the man is a disgrace to his party.
If only NSW had an opposition.
dave reminds me of the Melbourne Herald Sun that ran 4 FRONT PAGES in a row about Therese Rein’s business. I cant recall them ever covering ANY other issue to that extent. Baffling
727 Honest John – I reckon you have no idea what you are talking about.
Fagin I think youre overreacting which is not usual for you as far as I remember. Please detail what Mr Della Bosca has actually done to deserve being sacked given that the stat decs have been withdrawn
It would seem to me to be the right move at this stage for Bosca to stand aside while police investigations are going on. From the internet there is enough doubt about what has happened to not make it an open and shut case. I have noticed lemma in the past will only make a definite move when there is suffient evidence. Fair enough.
This is not a reflection on other parts of his performance which have not been good. In fairness he inherited a lot from Bob Carr. Still as in other States and Fed the Opposition is pretty much hopeless.
I think Liberalism is going to its Use-By date. It is travelling very fast now to being a right wing rump run by extreme thinking. In the Global climate at present and the way Global politics is going, unfettered mining and the resultant pollution in processing to the end product will be constrained by the danger to the world environment. This movement has to get stronger as time goes on or the planet will not be livable. In the past without this constraint unfettered industry which the Libs believe in was viable. What was it hurting? And benefits were undeniable.
Future Oppositions will probably have to come from a major realignment of people’s thinking/philosophies.
New thread.