Duke it out here. Those participating in the US election threads are advised that they do so at their own risk.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Presidential election minus 21 weeks
Copyright © 2008 Private Media Pty Ltd, Publishers of Crikey.com.au. All Rights Reserved.
Independent news, blogs and commentary on politics, media and business.
Editor: Jonathan Green.
Publishers: Eric Beecher, Diana Gribble.
Level 7, 22 William St, Melbourne, 3000. Ph: 1800 985 502 Fax: (03) 8623 9975
1,623 Comments
Pages: « 1 … 26 27 [28] 29 30 … 33 » Show All
Growls at 1349:
always pay paticular attention when you quote authoritative sources. Barry will be just SO flummoxed after these shocking revelations from Faux. The “Presumptive Democratic nominee” should do the right thing by
1)his family,
2)his Team,
3)the great State of Illinois and
4)his country.
Just walk away from the whole Presidency thing pronto, no ifs or buts. This one goes way beyond “disappointment” for the junior Senator.
It’s simply devastating!
———-
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55122
http://media.kansascity.com/images/cartoons/judge/06-2008/judge_06202008_700.jpg
http://caglepost.com/cartoon/Pat+Bagley/52219/Offshore+Oil+Color.html
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2008/06/20/1213935117_6983.gif
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55155
Further bad news for the McCain supporters on this board, all 3 of you:
The latest Newsweek Poll shows Obama opening up a 15 point lead over McCain:
Obama 51
McCain 36
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/20/161428/822/757/539272
Votemaster.
The most indicative poll of all today is in IN-09, an R+7 district in which Rep. Baron Hill (D) and Mike Sodrel (R) keep taking turns at being a congressman. Hill now is leading 51% to 40%. We saw earlier this year that Democrats swept three open seats in Republican territory (IL-14, LA-06, and MS-01). Now we are starting to see what might happen to incumbent Democrats in Republican territory–they might be reelected in landslides. While it is still too early for Hill to break out the champagne, when a Democrat has an 11-point lead in a heavily Republican district it does not bode well for the GOP in contested House races.
more…
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Though the Obama campaign is keeping mum about whether it will definitely run spots, it has asked NBC Universal about Olympics advertising including $500,000, $2 million and $4 million packages of ads. (NBC presented those along with a $10 million package.) It’s not only a sign that the Obama camp has faith it can continue its stellar fundraising achievements but a signal that a widening field of battleground states has the candidate contemplating national broadcast buys.
more….
http://adage.com/article?article_id=127880
Bush Approval Sinks Again.
George W. Bush’s overall job approval has dropped to 25% as Republicans and independents are less apt to say they approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president according to the latest survey from the American Research Group.
Among all Americans, 25% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 71% disapprove. When it comes to Bush’s handling of the economy, 23% approve and 73% disapprove.
more…..
http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/
“Barack Obama stated yesterday that he won’t take public funding for his campaign, thereby breaking an agreement he had with John McCain to do so if both were nominated”.
Is this a “change you can believe in”, or another lying politician?
Further to 1356,
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/21/will-the-newspapers-toss-obama-under-the-bus-now/
Howdy Bludgers; E-Day minus 135:
Yes Growls at 1356, I too am shocked, dismayed and appalled that a pollie would resort to such monstrous mendacity. Thanks ever so much for drawing this startling revelation to our attention. Fair dinkum, mate, it’s enough to give a bloke a touch of the vapours.
—————————
The Big O with John Cusack on Tweedle-Imbecile and Tweedle-Bomb-Bomb:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/21/john-cusack-talks-politic_n_108421.html
Saturday, June 21, Eighth Year of the Third Millenium: God’s gift of Freedom is symbolically bestowed upon Mesopotamia……
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/mikeluckovich;_ylt=AtNUTmkfYCB7JfxdkPbDOXtR_b4F
EC,
“Vapours”, is that what you Obi’s now call “bulldust”?
Seems ,Growler, your “hotair” hypothesis at 1357 has yet to permeate Punterville. That’s probably because hot air rises. (Vapour; a term denoting those particles of bodies, that are rarefied by heat: being thus rendered specifically lighter than the atmosphere, they ascend to a considerable height, and are at length totally dissipated.)
Intrade Market Odds: The Kid, 64.3; McSurge, 32.2.
(Bass trombone, descending riff: pom pom pom paaaahhhh!!)
Be very afraid, Bomb-Bomb fanciers, we are now entering psephological Lewis & Clark territory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_and_Clark_Expedition
Obama is showing he is prepared to do what he can to win. Winning counts in politics. There is no second prize. Voters understand this. In choosing to maximize his campaign spending, Obama is giving himself the best chance of winning. The only voices of objection will come from desperate republicans.
That’s exactly right blindoptimist, Kerry strategists have continually said that the biggest mistake of there campaign was to continue with the public funding agreement.
LATEST POLLS
NEW HAMPSHIRE:
OBAMA 50
MCCAIN 39
NEVADA:
MCCAIN 45
OBAMA 42
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/21/113746/790/294/539735
Ready to Attack Obama, if Some Money Arrives.
UNIVERSITY PLACE, Wash. — A Bible verse taped to a whiteboard in Floyd Brown’s office that he uses to track his efforts to attack Senator Barack Obama reads, “That is why for Christ’s sake I delight in weakness, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.”
more….
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/us/politics/21ads.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
EC,
1. Read the comments attached to the article.
2. Only made the decision in the last few days. Pretty hard to show up in polls yet!
Obama will come under scrutiny as the “flip flop” candidate. Gonna be hard for him to refute that on this issue.
In the months ahead, John McCain will have to repeatedly beat back claims by Barack Obama’s campaign that he is running to win a third term for the Bush administration.
But events this week have illustrated just how difficult that could be. In this crucial opening phase of the general election campaign — when McCain is trying to establish his independence from the unpopular president — his message has repeatedly been eclipsed by that of the White House.
more….
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccain20-2008jun20,0,2497288.story
Speaking of President Shrub, his approval rating is down to a new low of 25%.
More “flip flopping” by Obama.
“For months, Barack Obama said that he would ‘make sure that we renegotiate’ NAFTA, demanded unilateral changes and threatened to unilaterally withdraw if he did not get his way,” McCain said in a statement released by his campaign. “. . . Now he claims: ‘I’m not a big believer in doing things unilaterally.’ ”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/20/AR2008062002836.html
Anyone watching the impact of the Democratic backdown on FISA on potential Obama votes? Only have to go to reddit to see some howling opinions.
How to protect Americans while protecting Americans. Obama excels in 101 Compromise then Promise.
http://www.theseminal.com/2008/06/19/dems-caving-on-fisa/
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/201032.php
“EC,
1. Read the comments attached to the article.
2. Only made the decision in the last few days. Pretty hard to show up in polls yet!”
Growls, no need to carry on like some kind of zealous didactic ninny, dear boy. Punterville as expressed by Intrade Market Odds is, by definition, not the polls.
Now off you pop to hunt down more hard eveidence of your meme du jour, which appears to be why that naughty Mr. Barry is such a dreadful flip-flopper. There’s the good lad then.
GG, I did read the comments attached to your link. They confirm the point: the only voices of protest are coming from Obama-phobes. On the whole, voters are going to say to themselves: “Great, Obamas got more money, more firepower, and he’s more certain to throw out the republicans!” Only the ejectees are going to complain.
Obama’s flip-flop over the public financing could turn out to be a turning point of the election so far. For a candidate that has been branded as the change agent and a clean skin that is not hostaged to money politics, this is very damaging to that brand. It will reinforce that he is no difference to the others, that the best president money change buy.
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=AACE1562-3048-5C12-000DC6AC5126E738
Couple this with his megalomania pseudo presidential seal.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/an_awfully_pres.html
He is just not feeling their pains.
GG
All this flip-flopping Obama and what does it deliver …
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/us/politics/22obama.html
The media vultures can whinge as much as they like. McCain’s numbers are falling into the 30’s and Obama looks more like the winner-in-waiting each passing day.
Fins at 1371
Yep, its the sign of the people stepping up – and watch how it unfolds as the Obama Campaign moves steadily from a contestant in a race towards a greater emphasis on appearing presidential and controlling more power than the lame duck GWB.
That will be fun to watch.
The spin from the McCain supporters on this board will be fun to read in the leadup to November, these are the same people who claimed they were right behind Hillary LOL
Well, I’ve just had a good laugh this morning. I log on here to find GG and Finns DESPERATELY trying to give oxygen to the latest Republican strategy of painting Obama as Mr. Flip Flop.
Firstly, thanks guys for finally revealing your true colours.
Secondly, if you really think this strategy is going to work, then you’ve got rocks for brains. Everyone knows that politicians occasionally change their minds or soften their stance on particular issues. Sometimes it’s about winning elections. Sometimes it’s about a genuine change of heart.
The truth is that Obama hasn’t actually flip-flopped anywhere near as much as Republicans would like you to believe. The truth is that McCain has flip-flopped a LOT more.
And apart from this, trying to make “Mr. Flip Flop” stick to Obama is a waste of time. It simply doesn’t ring true. Obama’s entire campaign, and even his public persona, is built around a number of solid principles. People know he stands for something. All the Republicans will do is make themselves look desperate in trying to find anything negative to pin on Obama.
On the other hand, “Mr. Flip Flop” has a better chance of sticking to McCain because he lacks a clear set of principles or values. People don’t really know what McCain stands for. While he was once a moderate in the Republican Party, where he got tagged as a “maverick”, he has changed his mind on a long list of issues to now position himself somewhere on the hard Right, which is why recent polling has revealed McCain is no longer regarded by the public as a maverick, but instead a full-on conservative.
I think Republicans are playing with fire on this one.
Just in case anyone was wondering whatever happened to those disenfranchised Hillary supporters…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prM9gIkozh4
Catrina,
Any advertising person will tell you that it does not matter how much money or how well you place your ads, if the product is a “crock of excrement”, then it won’t sell.
Obama is continuing his well established pattern of ‘throwing under the bus” anyone or anything that gets in the way of his attempt on the POTUS. Dispensing with principles, he can do that. “Yes he can”!
Who’s next in Obama’s insatiable bus chucking under hobby? It could be the left wing fawners. How sad for them.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html
“Obama’s flip-flop over the public financing could turn out to be a turning point of the election so far.”
I agree with you. I think the fuss over Obama’s decision to refuse public funding will make him MORE popular.
For a start, he’s using his own funds, drawn predominantly from grassroots supporters like you and me, and therefore not wasting taxpayers money.
Secondly, the fact that he has been able to raise such a huge amount of money sends a message to the public that Obama is popular, that millions of people want him to win, and that he is capable of creating and organising something on a huge scale. This feeds directly into “expectations of winning”, which pulls in even more voters. Americans love to back a winner.
Catrina: “the disenfranchised Hillary supporters” have largely gone over to Obama, as recent polling proves. Obama now wins women by more than 10%!
It would seem the only demographic favouring McCain is white men.
I’m expecting staunch McCain supporters to become increasingly aggressive and irrational as we inch closer to November.
It’s like last year’s Australian election. The Howard supporters panicked, backed themselves into corners, and then furiously started name-calling, leaving all semblance of rationality behind as they entered a parallel universe where Kevin Rudd was the devil-incarnate and Howard a holy messiah.
Looks like GG is one of the first to go. Apparently Obama is a “crock of excrement”!
I love it.
It’s a great sign when this starts happening. You know they’re getting desperate. And just think, we still have months to go. McCain supporters will be insane by then.
GG at 1378
The FISA decision is interesting territory as the story has not quite played out just yet. On one hand the bill returns endorsement of surveillance measures back to FISA (which most people believe is a good thing). However – there is this nasty little issue of amnesty for the big telcos during wiretap operations performed at the request of GWB. Now Barack has suggested that this aspect will be raised in the Senate, but this gets interesting because he will be able to publicly oppose the amnesty issue, very likely be defeated in Senate vote, and then walk away with the frame established as Obama fighting against corruption of the constitution by the combined actions of John McCain and Gorge W.
And all though this Obama is leading the party in a way that will ensure that the Democrats cannot be painted as the wimps or bad guys.
The guys choosing the fights he wants and turning losses against his opponents.
Oh and by the way…..
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080621/pl_politico/11241
GG at 1383
So what – during the period McCain was the presumptive nominee while Obama was fighting Clinton. I figure Obama will be out-raising McCain significantly in the next period, and every period between now and the election – and by staggering margins.
You agree?
Progressive, i notice that it is your bad habit of accusing people of what they are not just because they disagree with your view. As Poss had correctly pointed to you and others few moons back, just because we criticise Obama, it does not mean we suppose McCain.
If Obama has come out just a plain simple Barack Obama, I am a politician, and i want to be POTUS. None of this rubbish such as Kumbaya, Change agent, new politics etc tec. he would have my support whole heartedly.
Catrina,
I expect Obama to come under a lot more scrutiny. He’s going to be called to book for his flexible positions on a range of issues, which is something he does not seem to handle very well. His responses may not play out well in the coming weeks or months.
It’s interesting/amusing how the Obama “la las” here keep on saying that any criticisms or flip flops don’t matter because…………oh because they support him hell or high water. Good for them.
They have completely ignored the point that an Obama Presidency would see a free trade rethink and a policy of growing protectionism. Neither of which will be in the interests of Australia.
As one of the fence sitters here at PB, I can look at different issues as they emerge on their merits. But, I am sceptical of the messianic powers allegedly possessed by Obama.
Improvised Explosive Terrorist Flip-Flops…
http://dcist.com/attachments/dcist_sommer/2008_05_flipflops.jpg
….are about to be thrown under this bus!!
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc116/juggalokilla99/bus2.jpg
I congratulate GG and Finns for making the most of this issue. They don’t have much to work with. You can only play with the cards you are dealt. It clearly is a self-interested flip-flop from Obama. He’s got a long way to go to catch up to Bush III though.
BTW What is “maverick” about taking a populist stance on campaign reform and Big Tobacco.
Constantly vigilant, a pair of Arizona prarie dogs remain on guard lest the legacy of local hero, Johnny McSurge, is despoiled by marauding Bludgers.
http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/prairie_dog/White-tailedPrairieDog_01.jpg
Finns, I agree that questioning Obama does not equate with supporting McCain. And Obama should be questioned and held to account for his behaviour.
What you have tended to do here, however, is hold Obama to one level of scrutiny, and McCain to another. It is illustrated in the rediculous pile-on about what is a pragmatic political decision by Obama, while ignoring the fact that McCain has behaved in a way much more legally and ethically dubious, and he is doing so at the moment. Have a look here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200902.php
Alongside your trackrecord of jumping on every rightwing smear that has been thrown at Obama so far (all the gate-gate business), I can see why your motives are questioned. Of y’all amigos, I must say that Ron is the only one not engaging in the bitter McCain flirting, and seems to be questioning Obama on a policy level these days (I think) rather than hiding disappointment at Hillary’s loss in a regurgitation of smears and a faux looking at the issues and candidates mantra.
You Amigos know that, placed side by side, and given your own ideological positions espoused here on many occasions, there is no choice between Obama and McCain. In fact unless I am wildly off base, a McCain presidency would be disasterous for much of what you seek politically. Obama has at least a chance of being better. That is why not holding McCain to the same level of scrutiny as you do Obama just seems bitter.
Pancho, [What you have tended to do here, however, is hold Obama to one level of scrutiny, and McCain to another.]
1. Obama has placed himself on a fairly loftly position from the beginning, self inflicted. So stop whinging if we judge him differently from the others.
2. You guys already doing a good job scrutinizing McCain and will not do likewise with Obama. So someone has to be the dirty work and it’s us. So stop whinging when we scrutinize your candidate.
Finns – I’m not whinging mate, it’s your prereogative to scrutinise whoever you wish. Just as it’s mine to point out an inconsistency that appears to be driven by disappointment at Hillary’s loss.
Pancho, this article sums up nicely where i am standing:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/20/AR2008062002275.html
Finns – fair enough. That article seems pretty weak to me though, and the conclusion – only framed as a question – is far from convincing.
Broder says
Recent polling questions this. Pew finds that
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/16/polls-show-mccain-cheapened-his-maverick-brand/
Broder’s other point is that Obama may be damaged by not agreeing, without any negotiation, to McCain’s demand for 10 town hall meetings. With respect, this is a bogus charge. First, you know as well as I do that you do not completely cede to your opponents demands. Second, given Obama’s huge leads in finance and popularity, all he would be doing by agreeing to such a demand would be giving McCain free publicity in front of Obama’s huge energised crowd. The fact that the Republicans have not negotiated beyond their initial demand shows this was a stunt.
On another point, I take it you have thrown electoral-vote.com, the instrument you saw as proving Hillary’s popularity and guarateeing her victory ‘under the bus’ now? Because surely, given the way you trumpeted it previously, and talked about its past successes and accuracy, you couldn’t be having doubts about an Obama victory based on this when it is showing him winning 344 evs?
For those who haven’t noticed it, there is an interesting analysis on 538 as to how the post-primary ‘bounce’ for Obama is pretty much the same in state-by-state polling as it is in the national polls when you look a bit closer. Something like 4.7 points across state polls compared with a fraction less nationally:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/06/obamas-bounce-in-state-vs-national.html
Pancho @ 1392
It’s funny reading through a couple of days’ posts at a time. Those 3 Amigos – it stands out like something very prominent this position they’ve adopted in the new scenario.
It’s exactly the same now as when Barry was against Hillary: never anything positive about his opponent, just any dirt available about Baz.
It just looks so absurd these days though – now he is up against a right-wing old dope.
There aren’t any positives in McCain being elected for anyone remotely of the ‘left’. The only ones who won’t settle back and enjoy Barack’s journey are those who are either: 1. Repug supporters, and/or 2. those with an issue about skin colour, and/or, 3. cyber pokers and prodders who will say anything to get a response, and/or 4. disappointed Hillary supporters who want to bring the whole marquee down.
Ever caught a moray eel when fishing? That’s what these guys are like, they are so contorted avoiding any mention of the quality of McCain’s candidature. Their agony will indeed be exquisite to watch by November.
1368 Greeensborough Growler Now there’s a HUGE issue. Flip Flopping. I can just see that will be number 1 on everyone’s lips.
1371 The Finnigans Yeah right, it’s a real killer of an issue. Good to see you out backing up GG. What a coincidence.
Nocat @ 1381
“It’s a great sign when this starts happening. You know they’re getting desperate. And just think, we still have months to go. McCain supporters will be insane by then.”
The earlier they go nuts the better.
Obama’s camp seems to be well prepared for the republican negative campaign with a swift counter punch strategy.
Ideally a big negative push should happen towards the end of the campaign. There is less time to respond and you want the negatives have their stongest resonance on polling day.
If the fall any further behind they will have to start throwing haymakers much sooner in the campaign.
That McCain supporter are already showing signs of stress bodes well – but ’tis long way to go.
Yep. Flip flopping, more important than the economy, more important than Iraq, more important than corruption, more important than McCains health, more important than his age and last of all more important than George Bush’s popularity. Get off the grass.
Pages: « 1 … 26 27 [28] 29 30 … 33 » Show All