Introducing another round of comments action in the endless US presidential election campaign. Participants are encouraged to try their luck in the IRC room:
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Introducing another round of comments action in the endless US presidential election campaign. Participants are encouraged to try their luck in the IRC room:
2,113 Comments
Good to see freedom of speech is measured out to idiots too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBRUalssp0Q
And this is how a insincere apology looks like … must admit shes hot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8oIy6Crrs&feature=related
G’day Bludgers, Poll Follies continues afresh…….
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55209
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55212
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55213
Vale George Carlin:
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55226
Barack Obama announced this afternoon that his Democratic unity event with Hillary Clinton will be in the appropriately named Unity, N.H., on Friday.
Coincidentally, Obama’s campaign said, both candidates received exactly 107 votes in the western New Hampshire town in the primary, which Clinton won in January to stay in the race.
more…
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/
Bloody hell, you cant even go to sleep,
and wake up to the screaming headline that PB has lost 2 bloggers,
Oh my heart is shattered and soul has surrendered,
Who gives a hsit about:
Mugabe more isolated
Angry questions follow ferry sinking
US welcomes EU sanctions on Iran
Pakistan adrift without a leader
Landmark NKorea nuclear declaration expected Thursday
Nigeria: The Case Against Gambari
Chile extends whaling ban as meeting eyes Japan
EU approves new sanctions on Iran
‘Peace Valley’ launch cancelled
Faction fighting continues in northern Lebanon
Another Female Suicide Bomber Kills 15 in Iraq.
Sweet William oh, i want them back,
pleeeeeeease, especially my pet,
’tis not a fair contest that is 3 Vs 30,
’tis more fair is 3 vs 32.
Finns,
It’s like a humungus game of ten green bottles.
Seven in 10 worry that McCain’s policies would be too similar to President Bush’s, while half are concerned Obama’s changes would go too far. Almost one in 10 say Obama would be a less effective president because he is black, while nearly one in four say McCain, 71, would be less effective because of his age. People prefer a Democrat to a Republican representing them in Congress by 10 percentage points.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijClHoidEl8XEJMJoUooHU1R_nmgD91FSIN83
Finns on the previous – ha!
Close, but:
“Although many people initially assume that the song is about the famous Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa, Van Zandt has denied this, and the lyrics are not easily reconciled with the historic details of Villa’s life and death.”
New Rasmussen poll for New Mexico
OBAMA 47
MCCAIN 39
I note too Democratic Senate candidates are headed for landslide victories in New Hampshire, New Mexico and Colorado.
How do you reckon the sort of candor below will play out? As well as Howard and Haneef, or better?
“We saw how that might play out early in the campaign, when one good scare, one timely reminder of the chaos lurking in the world, probably saved McCain in New Hampshire, a state he had to win to save his candidacy – this according to McCain’s chief strategist, Charlie Black. The assassination of Benazir Bhutto in December was an “unfortunate event,” says Black. “But his knowledge and ability to talk about it reemphasized that this is the guy who’s ready to be Commander-in-Chief. And it helped us.” As would, Black concedes with startling candor after we raise the issue, another terrorist attack on U.S. soil. “Certainly it would be a big advantage to him,” says Black.”
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/20/magazines/fortune/Evolution_McCain_Whitford.fortune/
Progressive @ 10,
I don’t think Colorado is the bag yet, but New Mexico, New Hampshire and especially Virginia are all probable Democratic pick-ups.
New Mexico and New Hampshire are looking good for the Democrats, and maybe Colorado too. Outside of the greater DC area, Virginia is a tough nut to crack for the Dems; but they have a good Senate candidate in the shape of former Gov Mark Warner (who, coincidentally, is running for the seat vacated by John Warner, former husband of Elizabeth Taylor). But I think Obama is dreaming if he thinks he can carry Virginia in the pres election.
Demographic changes are pushing all four states (NH, NM, Virginia and Colorado) closer to the Dems; but Virginia and Colorado have a long way to go.
Obama and his seal. Another demonstration of his poor judgement?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23913240-12377,00.html
#14, GG, what’s next? Emperor Obama. It got a nice ring to it. Dont u think?
Finns,
Is he wearing any “policy” clothes?
Touche, amigos. But in the interest of balance as an unbiased contributor, some nice designs storming about in this teacup too
:
“So since the Republicans have been beating the drum on Obama’s alleged presumptuousness and lack of respect for the seal of the President, when’s the GOP going to take down its seals for the National Republican Senatorial Committee’s Republican Presidential Task Force, Republican Senatorial Inner Circle, and Republican Presidential Roundtable?
Also offensive, no?”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/on-seals-and-ba.html
GG and Finns, gosh, I’m stunned. So now all has been revealed. Obama lacks judgement because his seal had a similar eagle on it to the presidential seal. And Finns, my god – please no, surely it’s not, not, not a sign of h-u-u-u-bris??
And boys, don’t forget about Obama not wearing a flagpin earlier this year. Apparently that was a sign of his lack of patriotism.
I’m looking forward to more of these illuminating discoveries. I guess by the end of it, we will be thanking you for not electing the anti-christ. After all, you guys saw it all right from the start, eh?
The disposable Presidential seal there is more than meets th eye Yes the GOP have foolish seals , no question The GOP’s are about teh Republican Party & is in bad taste , but this seal imlys aan annointed one Poor judgment guys yes , but also elititism arrogoance ‘they cling to their guns , they cling to their religion’ Even a Roman Emperor’s coroination is one of the last qualities you’d want to see in a nukie Countrys head But then it seems in the US as with PB , perception has become reality before examination & a disowning of michelle may havr no effect on this “virtual reality” election
Yeah, the seal was a mistake, but the reaction to it is typical “Gotcha” politics. It’d be awesome if the media bothered to cover key policy differences, rather than just inanely focussing on gaffes. I guess it’s what sells paper and grabs viewers though.
GG, [Is he wearing any “policy” clothes?] – policy clothes? i have not seen any. You can judge a nation very much by the way it looks after its people. Healthcare. If one thing that Obama Admin can really do for the American people is to introduce a Universal Healthcare.
But guess what? who was the real champion of the Universal Healthcare? It was our candidate Ms. HRC.
Noocat,
Here’s the killer quote allegedly from the man himself:
“One Obama aide told Fox News that the widely panned seal was intended as a one-off for Friday’s event. But Atlantic.com reported that the candidate himself felt the image had been a “silly mistake”.”
What other silly mistakes are there and when are they likely to happen?
ah FINNS , yes absolutely Universal healthcare for our countrys people
….and a countrys people’s future people ? ……..Kyoto
GG – that’s a fair indication of class I’d say. While aides are spinning, Obama announces ‘mistake, move on’.
Finns – still with the Hills hangup? Once Obama has won the election with his less threatening stance, both Elizabeth Edwards and Hillary will be at the centre of debate and implementation of the most revolutionary healthcare policy the U.S. has ever seen.
Pancho,
Did you read some of the comments on your link? Some are very funny.
GG, you’d better sit down for this one. Obama will probably make some more “silly” mistakes in the lead up to the general election because he is an imperfect human being.
The same goes for McCain. Expect him to make some more silly mistakes over the next few months too. He also is an imperfect human being.
And it was the same last year with Rudd. He admitted to making some mistakes on the way to the federal election. Rudd too is an imperfect human being.
The point of difference between all these imperfect human beings, which should be your main concern, is how they handle the “gaffe”. Do they have the courage and personal dignity to admit to making a mistake or do they try to run away from it? Obama (like Rudd last year) has already demonstrated the former. Howard was of the latter. Let’s see how McCain goes over the next few months…
Noocat,
I’ll remember all the forgiveness and goodwill you extol. It is a charming credit to your character and so consistent with the views of the Obamaphiles on PB towards John McCain. (Wanders off laughing uncontrollably).
Pancho, two critical issues that Obama has not led at all but waiting to be led.
1. Healthcare
2. Kyoto
me and my amigos have nailed these from way back. Our flags are flying high, where’s yours?
i think i am going to enjoy on the top Machu Picchu, shouting “i told you so, i told you so” on about 4/11/08.
9 Progressive How about a link?
13 Kakuru They already have one Virginian senate, Jim Webb. Why not two?
Why should the next American President ratify Kyoto? They’ve missed the boat already through the inaction of the Bush 2 and Clinton administrations. The commitment period is already here (2008-2012) and their greenhouse emissions have increased by 14.7% to 2006 from 1990 levels. In 2006 they had a total greenhouse output of 7054.2 Tg of CO2 equivalent, which represents a Kyoto exceedance of 904 Tg (just under a billion tonnes). Under Kyoto they would then take a hit of 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent during the next commitment phase (on top of their other commitments), through the inaction of the previous governments. The next commitment period needs to bring on board all developing countries and institute large reductions in GHG levels; much larger than the 5% reduction attempted by Kyoto… more like 30%. A 30% reduction in addition to the extra 1.2 billion tonnes reduction would force the US to push for a 50% reduction by the next commitment period.
Given the current economic climate in the US, the better option is to chase the 6% target by 2012 as rigourously as possible, then come on board for the second commitment phase. The thought of US ratification of Kyoto sounds good, but in practice, I don’t think it would work.
Finns – “i think i am going to enjoy on the top Machu Picchu, shouting “i told you so, i told you so” on about 4/11/08.” What a coincidence!
Two points. First, you seem to forget that there is an inherent difference between campaigning on the one hand, and governing on the other. No elected government will ever do everything they have promised, and most will pull things out of the hat that they couldn’t, or wouldn’t publicise in a campaign atmosphere. It is my belief that Obama’s longer history shows him to be both politically savvy (he obviously knows how to play politics and win elections) and principled. We obviously differ on how we see him approaching both healthcare and climate change, and there will be no proof puddings until a couple of years into the Obama administration.
My second point is related to the first. While you spent most of the primaries admonishing Obama for being unreal and promising all sorts of things, you now seem to be the one with the kumbaya cap on. Trumpeting universal healthcare in an election atmosphere just gives the Republicans a reason to hit Obama, and claiming he could ratify Kyoto would be a lie, given this is done by Congress. So while I admire your political optimism, demanding pure ‘Healthcare’ and ‘Kyoto’ from Obama in a campaign atmosphere lacks a little pragmatism, and dare I say it, has more than a whiff of kumbaya about it.
30 Al Clinton initiated Kyoto. Bush put a stop to it in the USA.
Noocat
#26
“The point of difference between all these imperfect human beings, which should be your main concern, is how they handle the “gaffe”. Do they have the courage and personal dignity to admit to making a mistake or do they try to run away from it? ”
You are just too partisan to see the US is non compulsory There are 3 voters options , McCain or Obama or no vote Rudd had 3 problems 9Burke, terize’s money & his drunkem boogie fixed all 3 immediately Lets use youer standard The pastors you tube comments were playded to obama on 15th February Obama m 8 televised quoted TV interviews re the Pastor from 15th february to the ist May , each different , each one slowly untanfgling himself from the pastor from 15th February to 1st May (including his alleged Gettysburg address You remember that one at Philly don’t you , the greatest speech of all time Its already been forgotton because it was about one of his 8 Pastor “positions” Why did it take Obama so long ? because he had no one else to blame So on your criteria he fails The sea l,, there’s someone to blame , but he made the original approval on itand AL says its a mistake , yes a mistake but also an unsavoury character insight like bittergate
13 Kakuru You are also forgetting the huge increase in the black vote.
http://216.55.182.132/FairData/Historical/map.asp?command=scope&map=0
Chris,
Clinton never sent the Kyoto to the Senate for ratification, and
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/12/11/kyoto/
The Byrd-Hagel Resolution passed unanimously in the Senate on July 25 1997 (95-0) stating that the Senate would not ratify the Kyoto Protocol in its present form. Sure Clinton helped draft it, but Bush isn’t the only POTUS not to have ratified it.
Pancho, i bought the kumbaya message. so give me the effing kumbaya.
FINNS & GG
Here the Panch goes agaiin trying to hide the Obama lie on Kyoto Obama does NOT support the ratifiaction of Kyoto Obama will NOT say he supports the ratification of Kyoto So the panch stop trying to deceive your less read supporters her , because you don’t deceive the 3 amifgos with that bullsh.t
The second stain of the panch’s ‘tale’ is to elect a POTUS not on what he says he will do !!! No not alll , but insteads elect him on what the panch thinks he will do ,crap Rudd like most Polliticans for electon put all his policys out there before the election , so did hillary on both universal healthcare and Kyoto etc What we hve seen from Obama and McCain is useless healthcare , Kyoto and other FA & domectic polices
For 3 months these Obamabots have run fantasy Obama ‘promises’ that they cann’t quantify
Ron, let me just say that we are talking here about “gaffes” that are almost inconsequential. The flagpin, the seal, and whatever else, really say nothing about the kind of president Obama would make.
The meaning attached to them by the Republicans or by the media is FAR beyond reality. It’s just point-scoring, nothing more.
From farqnews with love:
Obama: We are no longer a Christian Nation.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik
btw; it’s good to have a sunny day off and a good health cheer to my amigos and the Cat woman (she’s a bit too sensitive to Sweet William’s feather slappin’)
35 Al Thanks Al.
All fired up Ron!
But back to reality – do you dispute the fact that Congress and not the President ratifies? Do you dispute the fact that no Congress will ratify at this stage given there is no way that the US can make the goals set for it when they signed but not ratified Kyoto given over a decade of inaction and that we are now in the 08-12 period that Kyoto is running?
Come on, lift the chip off your shoulder and be honest with yourself pal!
I think this is not fair on the old man, but he still got the moral authority. It’s time for Nelson Mandela to make a statement on the Zimbabwe issue. The South African president Thabo Mbeki is really pathetic. In fact, the whole ANC is a pale shadow of what it was.
The next leader in waiting for the ANC, South Africa’s former Deputy President Jacob Zuma, has a real murky past. he was charged with corruption and rape but acquitted. He is also linked to a “S Africa’s controversial arms deal – Mr Zuma says he will quit as ANC chief only if a court finds him guilty Despite his unequivocal election victory as leader of South Africa’s ruling African National Congress (ANC), Jacob Zuma is by no means assured of the presidency in 2009″
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7153473.stm
I heard a BBC radio documentary on him. It’s not good. It will not be good for SA’s reputation and moral standing if he became the president.
Panch stop seemleslly deceiving posters here FINNS went down this path with you for a day and you avoided him as well The fact is Obama will not say he supports the ratification of kyoto
Supply a quote where Obama says this No you can not because he refuses to say it Obama always ducks the question
YOU HAVE NEVER challenged the accuracy of this statement from either FINNS or me You are a dishonest blogger & continue to use up cyber space with this Obama Kyoto fraud
(AL i will address your valid points separately so the panch can not misquote)
Pancho, for you:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/new-warning-from-us-climate-change-prophet-20080623-2vjl.html?page=-1
As Obama is big on symbolic things. he can galvanise his nation by doing a very simple symbolic thing, just say “I will sign Kyoto”. That will send a very powerful and simple message to the World.
Yes Finns, Mbeki has completely dropped the ball on this one. Seems totally disinterested since losing the party leadership last year.
My wife has just returned from SA for the first time since she left in 1998, and says the whole place is falling apart, crumbling infrastruture and unimaginable violence. As uselss as Mbeki is, I think think your right, Zuma atrocious, we are in the process now of trying to get as many of my wifes family over to Australia.
Finns
I’ve been thinking the same thing about Mandela. Mugabe and he are not great mates so it’s not out of loyalty to Mugabe that he’s not spoken up. Mbeki is a pathetic stooge who seems to think AIDS is a good population control measure. The US looks set to take the Zimbabwe elctions to the UN Security Council.
http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20080623_who_is_going_to_stop_mugabe/
Ron – I’m not having a go here, but bear with me. My point has continuously been that I think you are asking the wrong question, and to ‘groupthink’ a phrase, it seems to me a gotcha question, for the following reasons.
1. The President does not ratify instruments such as Kyoto, Congress does. Therefore it is neither here nor there if Obama says he wants to ratify, and it would not be politically astute of him to announce that he intends to force through ratification when Congress (including many conservative Democrats) will just cut his legs from under him, and give the Republicans talking points about his leadership and the fact that the economy is crashing while Obama tries to slug them further.
2. I don’t believe that the US ratifying Kyoto in mid 2009 will see them attain the goals they were set over a decade ago. This has been because of the Bush admins general inaction, as well as a lack of desire to move on this issue throughout the wider US body politic. For this reason there will be little instrumentally gained by the US signing on at this late stage. AND the fact that the US won’t make its target, and would be fined heavily, is another reason why Congress will not sign on.
3. Reasons 1 and 2 are why I think it more important that Obama has pledged to work within the UNFCCC towards a post-Kyoto agreement. This is alongside his plan to create a G8+5 agreement you have previously mentioned. See page 4 on this link: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/EnvironmentFactSheet.pdf
So in short – no I don’t believe that Obama will ratify Kyoto, but nor do I believe that he can honestly, or politically astutely promise to. But I do see his policies as heading in the right direction with regards to climate change, and am hopeful that his nuanced position could create enough of a concensus to get the majority of US lawmakers onboard.
47 ec
The technical term is “survival cannibalism” is it’s purely out of starvation. If it becomes more for revenge, it’s called “exocannibalism”.
Just make sure you have good feed then before you go to work, Doc.
Pancho, Obama can follow the lead set by the FEMALE President of Chile. Yes, it is a symbolic act, but it has to be done. The ‘Oil Man sounded very please. He had a win as Chile was a major whaling nation.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06/24/america/LA-GEN-Chile-Whaling.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7470353.stm
Britain threatens military invasion of Zimbabwe if genocide begins. At least the world’s attention is on Mugabe, which makes genocide much less likely.
West on standby to halt Mugabe terror
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23913224-601,00.html
Viva Michelle Bachelet! Viva Chile!
Mon June 23:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/boondocks;_ylt=A0WTUei.BmBInpoAMBEDwLAF
Mon June 23:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/jeffdanziger;_ylt=AvvxbkDWRaoQcd8eyFr2SMxX_b4F
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55198
Finns – I don’t disagree with you in principle. I just think that with regards to an international agreement Obama’s political capital is better spent pragmatically, on developing a post-Kyoto agreement, rather than on fighting Congress in an attempt to get them to ratify something that they will not.
The point was made above that B Clinton’s administration was part of the drafting of Kyoto 1, and did sign it, but it was not ratified. I don’t see what Obama doing similar would achieve. I see more in advantage taking the smaller positive moves that he can in the short term (see the policy linked above) and working towords something structurally more important post-Kyoto.
Ron,
Read Obama’s policies @
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
Under the energy and evironment heading you can read his quite extensive environmental plan, including
“Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change:
The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.”
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55009
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55156
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55195
17 Pancho Yep there’s another issue that will race into the top ten issues. Talk about power issues. Obama has absolutely no come back for the HIGH QUALITY issues being thrown up. The Republicans are CERTAINLY going to STORM HOME with this stuff. It’s all over for the Democrats. Pack up your bags.
Come on guys lets go home the elections lost.
56 Enemy Combatant There’s no point posting anymore we’ve lost the election over the seal issue. Let’s go home.
Anybody?
Please?
Echo: Please?
Oh dear, another “silly mistake”,
“Barack Obama has released his first general ad of the presidential campaign, but its upbeat “values” message is slightly undermined by the revelation that he took credit for a law he didn’t vote on. Whoops.”
http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080624-US08-Media-Wrap.html
Yes it seems that Ron GG The Finns etc are just too good with the power issues. We might as well just give up.
The quality of major issues are simply stunning.
Am I missing half of a conversation here?
66 Al The major issue is over Obama’s election seal, which looks similar to the U.S. Presidents seal. It’s going to bring down the Democrats. Massive landslide to the Republicans.
We just can’t compete with stuff like that.
GG
63
It’s worth reading the Daily Kos link that was embedded in the Crikey story because it helps to clarify the facts – as opposed to the spin.
“The FACT, however, is that he did have an active role in the passing of this legislation. Just because he missed the final vote when the bill was sure to pass doesn’t mean that he had no role in its passage.
Ironically, John McCormick alludes to this very fact in his quote above when he says “While the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee authored provisions that ultimately made it into the law…”.
As we all know (but these pseudo-journalist-wannabes apparently don’t), a bill of this magnitude goes through an intense process of initial drafting, countless additions and edits, consensus-building, and finally passage. The passage part is often, ironically, where a Senator plays the smallest role — for legislation that has already passed in a previous incarnation (as in this case, see below), and which is sure to pass by a landslide, adding the ninety-third “yea” vote has absolutely no impact beyond cosmetics.
And what about Obama’s claim in the ad regarding veterans health benefits? It turns out that he submitted two amendments to the bill that would have enhanced health benefits to active servicemen and returning vets and co-sponsored an amendment that would have started bringing some troops home.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/21/11914/2500/451/539570
Cheers
Iraq, Gitmo, Subprime. None of this is going to mean jack sh*t once the ‘muricans hear about that seal.
Grace,
Good you found that. But, they would say that wouldn’t they?
Do you disagree that he at least played a part in drafting the bill GG?
The economy? That’s nothing compared to the seal. So don’t bother mentioning the economy any more.
dogb,
Not according to the rest of the Crikey post.
“Did he contribute to it in some way that might be reasonably referred to as extending healthcare for wounded troops who’d been neglected? It certainly doesn’t seem that way, as even Obama supporters at the Daily Kos discovered…”
The Daily KOS found that Obama had tried to insert several amendments which didn’t make it into the bill — one about screenings for service members returning from deployments, and one for easing the discharge of service members found to have personality disorders. Another part of the bill, calling for inspector general reports about hospital facilities, had come from a different bill Obama had sponsored.
As you know, DailyKos has a reptutation for being a fawning and uncritical supporter of Obama. So what do you think.
63 Greensborough Growler. Yes and there’s another election winning issue. It will dominate the election, and McCains age and health won’t have any impact at all.
GG. I do see you point but IMHO the fact that his amendments were defeated doesn’t change the fact that he was at least interested enough to take part in the debate.
I take that to mean he had a part to play. If you want to look at it differently I’ll agree to disagree on this one.
Chris B,
You whinge that no one should discuss or debate with me, yet now you want to discuss and debate with me. For goodness sake, get your morals and principles in order. People might start thinking that you want to start thinking. And, you don’t want none of that now, do you?
dogb,
Cheers.
77 Greensborough Growler. What?
77 Greensborough Growler Yeah right on there.
“There’s no point posting anymore we’ve lost the election over the seal issue. Let’s go home.”
Indeed ChrisB at 59, there is nothing as pathetic as a poorly performing seal!
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/bgr/lowres/bgrn874l.jpg
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55251
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55009
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55262
——————-
An 18 wheeler is tooling across the Nullabor towards Norseman. Emblazoned on the radiator muzzle a polished crest in chromed bas-relief flashes in the sunlight:
“KR”.
Business had picked up since the highly publicised schlepping of the Rodent Family from the People’s Palace at Kirribilli. There was lots of interstate work these days. “KR” was an outfit much in demand.
Unusual in that most truckies, particularly removalists, happily extend the courtesy of the road to trailing motorists, the real wheel mud-flaps display an iridescent:
“Pass me at your peril, Pal!!”
The cabin is aurally awash with the amplified tones of Bryn Terfel, the Welsh tonsillier; the driver sings along, interrupting himself on a regular basis with seemingly spontaneous bursts of resonant LOLs. His satellite tuned CB radio begins to crackle with static.
“Ssszz, fhzitt, krrrk, krrrrk……”
The driver reaches for the handset and depresses the button with his thumb.
“You rang?”
“Yeah, boss, there’s a whole bunch of Bludgers on my case here wondering when you’re gonna haul yer arse to a cyber-connected keyboard. WTF am I gonna tell ‘em??”
GG
74
Given that Obama submitted two amendments, “SA 2085 (”SEC. 703. POSTDEPLOYMENT MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH SCREENINGS FOR MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES”) and SA 2086 (”SEC. 593. DISCHARGE OF MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES FOR PERSONALITY DISORDER”)”, to that Bill, I think it is the conservatives that are making the misleading statements on this.
Chris B,
Have it your way.
But, I would be interested why you post here when you don’t want to engage/debate with other posters unless you are sure they will agree with you?
I think Al@ 66 put it best.
Grace,
See my 74. These amendments may have been for a different bill.
EC
81
Beautifully written but do you really think Bryn Terfel, or is that a clever ruse to tempt KR to respond.
Thanks, Grace. Whatever it takes to double-shuffle the bastard back into gear again. He’s been ghosting in “angel” for far too long.
EC,
KR is probably having a well earned sabbatical, recharging the batteries for a further flurry later on when the POTUS campaign really warms up. Either that or he has discovered other more worthwhile pursuits such as family and friends or even work.
Like you, I look forward to his return. Things are far livelier and more fun when he’s around.
GG
84
The amendments I quoted were from the “National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008″
Obama also sponsored S. 713, the “Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act of 2007″, which was passed.
Too true, Growls, too true.
Grace,
The other link on that Crikey has this:
“About 46 seconds into the ad, we are told that Obama “passed laws” that “extended healthcare for wounded troops who’d been neglected,” and in the usual manner of these political commercials we are given a little citation at the bottom. The citation reads “Public Law 110-181 1/28/08”. That law is the only federal legislation cited in the ad — the other two items mentioned were from the Illinois legislature and referred to other issues raised in the ad.
Public Law 110-181 was the 2008 defense authorization bill. It passed the Senate by 91 to 3 in January, with six Senators not voting. Among those six absentees was Barack Obama. So he cites a bill he didn’t even vote for. Did he contribute to it in some way that might be reasonably referred to as extending healthcare for wounded troops who’d been neglected? It certainly doesn’t seem that way, as even Obama supporters at the Daily Kos discovered when they tried to answer some of the bloggers who pointed to Obama’s citation of the bill. They found that Obama had tried to insert an amendment that had to do with screenings for service members returning from deployments, and one that would ease the discharge of service members found to have personality disorders, but neither amendment passed. Another part of the bill, calling for inspector general reports about hospital facilities, had come from a different bill Obama had sponsored”.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2YxNTk0NzBiNjgzZmY0MjEwYzg5ODViMjMxN2JlY2Y=
#52 – Diog, my wife kept asking me why the USA didn’t “invade” Zimbabwe to restore democracy like it did with Iraq. I was lost for answers. What should i tell her. I told her maybe the USA got too much tobacco already. have I missed something?
No oil there, Finn, so there’s no need to bestow god’s gift of Democracy is there?
————
His lovliness goes on and on……
“Bonus Quote of the Day
“Even if you never met him, you know this guy. He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.”
– Karl “Turd Blossom” Rove, quoted by ABC News, describing Sen. Barack Obama to Republicans at the Capitol Hill Club.” (polwire)
Finns
Rant for the Day
Your wife doesn’t have sufficient appreciation of the subtleties of US foreign policy. The US promotes democracy when the outcome will provide for benefits for all mankind (ie US business interests). Democracy is not to be encouraged when the new regime would subvert the wishes of God’s own people (ie US politicians). It works out best that way.
Some might quibble that there are similarities between Mugabe and Saddam, but aren’t torture, assassination, jailing of dissidents, the odd ethnic purge and machete-wielding death squads the hallmarks of good, strong government? Sure there were the occasional excesses of a few enthusiastic supporters but the violence was always in self-defence. Quite commendable the restraint shown really.
That’s the kind of leadership the US has installed all over the world, such as Haiti, Chile, the Phillipines and Nicaragua. Those leaders managed quite well without having elections, which really would just have been an expensive exercise much better spent on US contracts. And it’s worked out incredibly well in all those countries without “democracy”. These people don’t REALLY know what’s best for them and it is better just to let the US of A tell them.
EC, Pancho Left et al,
I am prepared to bring my prediction deadline forward from September to the end of August.
ESJ
What about our bet? (i) FL or (ii) VA and NC. Your choice.
Diogenes,
Ok I’ll rule out A Suitable Boy, how about Das Kapital?
I’ll take both.
#93, Diog, tq for your rant. will inform the wifey accordingly of your wisdom.
btw, is it my imagination or Mugabe has taken up the Hitler mustache?
http://www.topnews.in/files/robert-mugabe1.jpg
A top adviser to Sen. John McCain said that a terrorist attack in the United States would be a political benefit to the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, a comment that was immediately disputed by the candidate and denounced by his Democratic rival.
Charles R. Black Jr., one of McCain’s most senior political advisers, said in an interview with Fortune magazine that a fresh terrorist attack “certainly would be a big advantage to him.” He also said that the December assassination of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, while “unfortunate,” helped McCain win the Republican primary by focusing attention on national security.
more….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/23/AR2008062301979.html
Chris B,
McCain has repudiated Black’s comments:
“Mr. McCain condemned the statement at a news conference here. Mr. Black said in a statement: “I deeply regret the comments, they were inappropriate, I recognize that John McCain has devoted his entire adult life to protecting his country and placing its security before every other consideration.’’
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/mccain-adviser-apologizes-for-terrorism-remark/
Will Chris B or Harry H now come forward and repudiate Catrina or Andrew?
Not only Hamas have stopped dancing in the street. Now the American Muslims are now under the bus.
* Mr. Ellison believed that Mr. Obama’s message of unity resonated deeply with American Muslims. He volunteered to speak on Mr. Obama’s behalf at a mosque in Cedar Rapids, one of the nation’s oldest Muslim enclaves. But before the rally could take place, aides to Mr. Obama asked Mr. Ellison to cancel the trip because it might stir controversy. Another aide appeared at Mr. Ellison’s Washington office to explain. “I will never forget the quote,” Mr. Ellison said, leaning forward in his chair as he recalled the aide’s words. “He said, ‘We have a very tightly wrapped message.’ ”
* While the senator has visited churches and synagogues, he has yet to appear at a single mosque. Muslim and Arab-American organizations have tried repeatedly to arrange meetings with Mr. Obama, but officials with those groups say their invitations — unlike those of their Jewish and Christian counterparts — have been ignored. Last week, two Muslim women wearing head scarves were barred by campaign volunteers from appearing behind Mr. Obama at a rally in Detroit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/us/politics/24muslim.html?hp
It looks like the French fries is off the menu again. Pres “My wife is so sexy” Sarkozy of France told the Israel that it must help to establish a Palestinian State with Jerusalem as its capital. Whereas Pres “My wife is so clever” Obama said Jerusalem will never divided. So back to Freedom Fries.
Chris B: dont forget to take your medicine everyday. we dont want to see you going into a convulsion again. it wasn’t pretty.
There have been 4 big stumbles so far: (excluding Hillary R.I.P, who made stumbling an artform).
1. Michelle Obama- never been proud
2. Barry – Bitter
3. McCain – his abysmal speech on Obama victory night.
and now
4. McCain”s No.1 representative Charlie Black – another terror attack is great for us.
This will play BIG right up to the election. Doesn’t matter what McCain denounces. If he doesn’t fire him he is crazy.
Maybe HarryH McCain is actually loyal to his staff unlike the hopemaster to his spiritual guide the very Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
ESJ
One book each for FL and VA/NC.
Das Kapital is OK. Looks a bit boring though. Don’t know much about Marx although I just got a book “Worldly Philosophers” about economic philosophy including Marx, Smith, Keynes etc. I still need another one if Obi loses both.
Finns has me reading The Perfumed Garden out loud in the unlikely event Obi loses.
I’ll give you four to choose from; The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Murakami, The War at the end of the World by Vargas LLosa, Selfish Gene by Dawkins and Machiavelli in Hell by de Grazia.
FINNS
did you indicate Obama had a poor family upbringing
Ron,
“Poor” as in money? would have to say yes.
“Poor” as in quality? would describe it as very unsettled and confusing. As to “who am I?” kind of confusing. Especially the Indonesia episode. Everything was strange for him, country, people, culture, foods etc. He was 6-11 then.
Methinks Michelle and Pastor gave him the stability and sense of belonging he needed.
GG
regarding that sponsoring conversation earlier , well DailyKos , fish & chips credibility there Also , Sponsoring or co sponsoring for some Poiitcans is an artform , it means their name gets on the Bill even if they did nothing So whether the republicans have a story or a beatup depends on the knowledge of peoples in the committees and their version you are aware of Obama’’s Senate record no doubt , till near end last year sponsored 129 Bills (how much work he did I haven’t yet checked) , and 2 got passed into Law Obama the non lobbyists , one of them i think was Lobbyists had to stand whilst eating (penance presume)
Ah, the politics of fear. I will show you fear in a handful of dust. It’s time that dust was swept into the grave with the cremated corpse of the Bush Administration.
Richard Clarke: Charlie Black Should Be Fired
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/23/richard-clarke-mccain-sho_n_108812.html
FINNS
This is either the Barbarians history or Obama’s
From the ages of 2 – 6, Senator Obama was raised by his wealthy, grandparents. From the ages of 6 – 10, Senator Obama was raised by his mother and his step-father who was an Oil Executive in Indonesia; from the age of 10 until his early adulthood, Senator Obama was living again with his wealthy grandparents, one of which was the Vice President of the Bank of Hawaii. Senator Obama has attended prep schools like Occidental College, paid for by HIS FAMILY. He then went on to Harvard, the State Senate of Illinois, and the U.S. Senate.
I note Tim Pawlenty has overtaken Mitt Romney as favourite to be McCain’s running mate. After my hiccup with Warner, who dropped out the day after I picked him for the Dems, the fates may yet smile on me.
Hello Lovelies-
haven’t read the posts since I left,but see that the the same players are still in the game. Not to mention Obama and McCain.
Good to see there is nothing new under the sun.
Finns, Ron and GG
Do I have to do your job for you!!? Lift your game boys!! From Matty Drudge.
Jen and jv- LOOK AWAY. DO NOT READ THIS POST. YOU WILL FEEL SICK.
Obama recently met in Chicago with religious leaders, including conservative evangelicals. His campaign also plans thousands of “American Values House Parties,” where participants discuss Obama and religion, as well as a presence on Christian radio and blogs.
Dobson accuses Obama of ‘distorting’ Bible
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gnLulDbwWGYGLiXlDW5hPiNMGMRQD91G51AG0
Good to see there is nothing new under the sun.
well i got a sun tan
Ron, i dont know whether his grandfather was wealthy or not. but his Indo Stepfather certainly was not. He was working for the Indo Army TNI. Later he did join the oil company.
thanks , was not sure of source
Diogenes ,
we release this stuff at strategic moments and you barge in and spoil the party
with advance releases Uyou’ve already tried to be an ‘elitist’ 9failed0 and suport 2 adelaide teams Why not ask Mr obama & Mccain why the US are not renditioning Mugabe right now , tell him thee are huge oil reserves there , this spin on allowing Mugabe to stay is sick
Yes. They’re off on all the topics that will swing this election. Democrats are in so much trouble its a wonder anyone will turn up for them at this election.
Come back Catrina. We miss you.
Ok-
so I did a little trawl back.
Catrina and Andrew appear to have departed the arena- shame I say..
still it appears that barrell bottom trawling is still the name of the game.
Diogenes -
have you sent your wine to Ferny yet? -I am remiss in my duty, having been at the coast for 5 days with no post packs, and anyway somehow the wine eveporated agin in 4 degree heat. Obviously the Cooler was tropical.
I must pose the question: if PB’ers are so vitriolic in the slow times, WTF is going on in the US?
Cannibalism I presume.
chris b @ 118
hear,hear!
Diogenes-
OMG! (oops)
Not the “Focus on The Family” program???!!!
He is just like, so totally f*cked, and that.
Thank God for God, who will save us from heathens and pagens.
And black POTUS’s.
Ron
Here’s a good article on the US politics take on Zimbabwe from the WSJ. Do we support a Bush-style intervention or the Clinton hands-off see-no-evil liberal approach. It’s a bloody hard decision.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121426493088398375.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
jen
I don’t believe there has been a reported case of political cannibalism in the US yet. Several murders but no cannibalism.
jen, I was on the Amazon site, having just bought a book on ante bellum US. They have blogs on various historical subjects, and I was amazed by the loathing and contempt shown for the Shrub even by people who thought Barry Goldwater would have been a fine POTUS.
But I suppose this was a self selecting site for elitists, ie you have to be able to read and write!
Diogenes-
beg to differ.
I think Hillary did a pretty good imitation of one who eats their own for the sake of their own survival.
So… what happened to Catrina and Andrew?
I would like to think that none of the veteran PBers actaullay drummed a new kid out of town. Poor form IMHO.
Gippslander -
you may not like what I am going to say, but there cannot be too much contempt, ridicule and disgust diercted at the very worst example of Democaracy gone wrong.
Bush should be charged and locked up for unimaginable numbers of war crimes.
And I can read and write – just not type.
123 Gippslander Good to see you back. Did I tell you my aunty owned Birrilda at Metung. Next door to the serviced flats. Near the jetty where you fill up for fuel.
124 Jen Andrew was sticking up for Catrina. Catrina was warned for being nasty to one of the Three Amigos.
She left after being warned by William.
My objection is that the siamese triplets get away with murder. Unlike others.
I think that was Catrinas feeling too.
Jen, it was jolly poor form! After 2000 unmoderated posts, (on a thread actually advertised to be a slug fest) William decided to do an impersonation of God the Father and beat up on Catrina, who’d been mocking Ron’s innovative grammar. It was puerile stuff, no doubt, but hardly in the same league with the poisonous exchanges between certain other posters! If I were Catrina I would feel unfairly singled out. I just hope that she doesn’t spit the dummy permanently, depriving the blog of some of its most interesting views.
131 Gippslander. Couldn’t agree more.
Come back Catrina. We love you.
Chris B; Obviously you have not taken your medicine for today. your convulsion is showing again. It’s no good for your health.
hey Jen, I wasn’t disagreeing with your view of Bush! The reference to elitists was Ironic, and refered to the Amazon bloggers, with whom I agree, being a member of the unelected elite myself.
Does anyone know about the polls Progressive mentioned at 9 and 10?
99 Greeensborough Growler To late he’s already said it. It can be used against the Repugs adnausium.
One awaits William’s comments on the childish post 134
See Jen. I rest my case.
No sign of William.
[My objection is that the siamese triplets get away with murder. Unlike others.] – so i assume that everyone here at PB agrees this statement is of the highest quality.
Election 2008: Pennsylvania Presidential Election.
Barack Obama has now taken a four-point lead over John McCain in Pennsylvania 46% to 42%, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of state voters.
Five percent of voters favor an unspecified third-party candidate, and 8% remain undecided.
In last month’s survey, Obama had a narrow 45% to 43% lead over his Republican rival, but this was before Hillary Rodham Clinton dropped out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. Two months ago, McCain held a statistically insignificant lead.
more….
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/pennsylvania/election_2008_pennsylvania_presidential_election2
The Republicans’ already imperiled efforts to hold onto their seat in New York’s 13th Congressional District took a tragic turn Sunday with the sudden death of Frank Powers, the former Wall Street executive endorsed by the local GOP after a personal scandal forced Republican Rep. Vito J. Fossella last month to drop his bid for re-election. And though GOP officials maintained a traditional reticence Monday in the immediate aftermath of Powers’ passing, the party will have little time to lose in picking a new candidate before the state’s July 10 filing deadline.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002903443
It has been nearly two years since six-term Republican Mark Foley resigned as representative of Florida’s 16th District, after revelations that he had sent s*xually explicit online messages to House pages. Three Republicans, all potentially strong general election candidates in the usually Republican-leaning south Florida district, have entered the Aug. 26 primary for the nomination to challenge freshman Democrat Tim Mahoney — who, GOP partisans argue, won the seat in 2006 only because of Foley’s downfall.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002903478
Chris: they are Rasmussen polls!
Have you checked out http://www.electoral-vote.com/?
All your polling info on that site, updated daily!
And, isn’t it funny the personal abuse is coming from those who claim they are being oppressed by the Obama supporters LOL
Correct link: http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Gippslander & Jen
You should go and read what actually happened
Catrina had a shot at me , i did not respond at all , then Themoderator said Catriana grow up , then Catrina caught by surprise decided to leave Thats what happened The moderator did not ban Catrina or threaten her
Andrew on the other hand attacked the moderator personally & complained of being called a parrot etc The moderator responded & said something like poo poo back Andrew waited and hour or so , obviuosly stewing at the ‘put down ‘ and decided to leave himself Again the modrerator gave Andrew neither a warning or a threat
Also andrews intervention on 2 occasions if anything was detrimental to an earlier genuine request by EC for Catrina to come back
So the moderator did a fine job , Andrew firstly acted like a spoilt child and then compounded it by acting selfishly & inhibiting EC , and as for Catrina she reacted , unlike Andrew , on human emotion at the time and perhaps too hastilly , and as for me well i’m the cause
Obama is ahead 46-30 percent over McCain in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties in the survey of 807 people conducted by Zogby International. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
”Obama’s 16-point lead in South Florida could springboard him to make it a competitive race statewide,” said pollster John Zogby. “I really think Florida is in play.”
more…
http://www.miamiherald.com/political-currents/story/580781.html
The Votemaster is not working at the moment. Must have missed them previously.
It was down for about 6 hours the other day after being attacked.
Up again. My name actually links to electoral vote.
Oh Diogenes ,
meant to answer your query first Do not agree with Obama’s lame TV interview on how to handle either Darfur or Mugabe , nor McCain’s mushy response too
I kept re-reading that 200,000 figure in Darfur sorry Diogenes , but i would send the US military into both and rwanda and clean it up , arret the war lords in sudan etc and mugabe and if the rest of the world objected , i’d say , you’ve had years and faile and people are dying Now my condition of invasion would b the Intell first to make sure it will succeed , and to be able to get out and out quickly And i’d havy ‘friends’ to pitch in with peace keepers immediately after because the US should not be an occupier treatment Whats the use of the military power if it it is not done to help other peoples
I’m not going to get my hopes up about Florida! I well remember how painful 2000 was when that state was taken off Gore, I was literally devestated!
Kakuru @ 13,
I find your analysis a bit confusing. You drift back and forth between talking about the Senate contests and the presidential contest to the extent that it’s unclear what you’re talking about when you bring up certain states.
The Senate race is a foregone conclusion. Warner left office with massively high approval ratings and remains very popular in the state. Polls show him comfortably ahead.
This is too dismissive. It’s widely recognised that Virginia is gradually getting less Republican. Whether Obama can cash in on that trend in 2008 is the big question. Personally, I think it’s a hell of a lot more plausible than some other red states mooted (e.g. Georgia). If McCain’s the favourite here, he’s no more than a narrow favourite. In fact, the last three polls to come out of VA have Obama ahead.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/vapres/
81
Enemy Combatant
Ecky, I’m scrawling this with a thumbnail dipped in tar, and the perspiration dripping from the fingers to the keys.
I’ve not been droving, (nor driving), but trying to beat a deadline before another one beats me, so it’s head down and tapping, and I’ve just this minute come up for air.
And by the way, you caught my eye with the trucker’s lament, as it’s been a bit that way to tell the truth, but I’d prefer the big Pav, (at his best), to jolly Bryn, but that’s a quibble for another day. Let’s just say I’ve heard the big pizza up close a few times, and it’s not something you ever forget to smile at.
Speaking of music, the big lad played the goanna the other day, and the venue had this hanging on the wall:
Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, a charm to sadness, and a life to everything.
Plato
I’d memorised it by the concert’s end, and when we got home, the darling 7 seven year old asked me what ‘moral’ meant, as he’d noticed the plaque too, and then we wrote out the quote together.
And by the way Ecky, don’t miss Seinfeld’s homage:
THE honest truth is, for a comedian, even death is just a premise to make jokes about. I know this because I was on the phone with George Carlin nine days ago and we were making some death jokes. We were talking about Tim Russert and Bo Diddley and George said: “I feel safe for a while. There will probably be a break before they come after the next one. I always like to fly on an airline right after they’ve had a crash. It improves your odds.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/opinion/24seinfeld.html?hp
153 Progressive Keep your eye on it, there’s a long way to go yet.
KR I am honoured to be called another KR. I have been accused of being another you. You can guess who by. Then it’s definitely good!
I think Obama has a damn good chance of winning Virginia this election year, and he’ll be riding on Warner’s coat tails!
Kirribilli Removals: Nice to see you’re back on the forum!
Where has ESJ been lately?
158 Progressive I’ll second that. With the money Obama’s got, the advertising down the will be huge. The advertising cost is cheap compared to NY etc.
And Northern Virginia in particular is trending more Democrat/blue these days, Tim Kaine and Jim Webb owe their recent victories to strong support in that part of the state, it tends to balance out the Republican Southern areas.
Gosh don’t tell me Eddy’s faded away, that would be a great loss! LOL
Keep on truckin’ mama….
CB, you can do the radio!
Broadcast the good news, and take the flak, and ride down the highway with the big Pav in flight…
Ron at 107: “well DailyKos, fish & chips credibility there….”
Ron, would one be correct in assuming that you are giving Markos Moulitsis and his Kossacks a big wrap here?
“In June 2006, members of Daily Kos organized the first ever political blogger convention, called YearlyKos, in Las Vegas, Nevada. The event was attended by approximately 1000[9] bloggers and featured appearances by prominent Democrats such as Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, California Senator Barbara Boxer, General Wesley Clark, Governors Mark Warner, Bill Richardson, Tom Vilsack and DNC Chair Howard Dean. The event was widely covered in the traditional media including Capitol Hill Blue,[10] The Boston Globe[11] and MSNBC[12]. C-Span also carried portions of the convention.[13]
The event was generally[14] considered a success. YearlyKos 2007 took place in Chicago in August 2007, at which time it was announced that future conventions would be known as Netroots Nation.[15]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Kos
————–
Kirri, that’s a wonderful story and quote from Plato. (also Jerry S’s Op-Ed.)
For you and budding goana man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0
Great to see you back. You too, Jen.
I never got an invite in 2006
and the panch probably did
anyone catch any of this today in Canberra…I couldn’t make it:
http://tokblog.org/?p=459
…but this guy gives a few ideas.
maybe PB should have a few members turn up and do mud wrestling or Ecky thump demonstrations (sorry, EC couldn’t resist! LOL)
Sorry if anyone’s already discussed this, I’ve not had time to back-trawl, here’s Matt Bai’s story:
http://stilgherrian.com/politics/oh-dear-im-going-to-canberra/
Well, Ron, isn’t it about time we held our own?
Already had some firm expressions of interest for the Wed. morning (Nov 5 EST) of the tally at a joint as yet undecided in Brissy. Would you attend? We’re twisting Jen’s arm to get a cheapie return flight from Melbourne. Imagine that, a bunch of Bludgers gathering for a few hours to witness and live-blog one of the most significant moments in recent planetary politics.
———————–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRNNb1kRpQ
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55196
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55228
(Dig it, Dio!)
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55229
Holy Toledo Kirri, is that synchonicity orwot? In blogspeak I think that’s what they call it when we cross but not angry:)
more woe in the us housing market: values still falling…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aa8XB1YgGRoE&refer=home
Wed June 24:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tomtoles;_ylt=AhRwkblJWpvabv.DLllfURxT_b4F
{This conference (Rio Earth Summit 1992) was attended by George H. W. Bush(Poppy), then President of the United States of America, who proved resistant to efforts to make deep and lasting changes that could ensure protection of the world on which all nations depend. His reasoning? “The American way of life is not negotiable”.}
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55232
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55240
————
BO, the rot’s really starting to set in now. Be fascinating to watch Johnny Bomb-Bombs presidential aspirations blow up like a monster IED on the outskirts of Baghdad’s Green Zone.
Would have to go in the Quantas luggage compartment , drssed as a suitcase
Blindoptimist , those are not good trends at all and there’s that perpetualy created cycle effect thats been created and this is partly the result of efeecticely no regulation and loose credit risk decsion critiria Wonder if the Chinese & those despotic oil Sheiks reckon gold is looking better than the US currency by the day for all there richs
sees yous all
172
Enemy Combatant
…and B/O, the trend ain’t their friend, not this time around the block. And no, it ain’t gonna look pretty any time this decade (at least).
Of course some of us have been saying for quite some time that this would be the 4×2 to the electors’ frontal lobes, and so far, it seems perfectly on target to have that effect.
Johnny B-B from company B(ahgdad) can blow on his horn with all his might, but the ethanol’s in the corn and and the oil’s under the desert sands, and it’s all a mangled kid’s nursery rhyme with not much point…a bit like his whole campaign, really.
Two options are available to those who object to my moderation rulings: a) put up with it; b) go away. Note that this list does not include c) whingeing. Those who exercise this non-existent third option risk being banned. Please try to remember that this is my website and not yours, and as such I will let you comment here only if I feel like it. Thank you for your co-operation.
Poll Bludgeon is the registered trademark of WB, so watch it folks, ‘coz he’s da man! LOL
You need one of these KR; the ‘Zimmer Zoomer’
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/24/countdown-gas-pain-john-mccain-and-the-300-million-battery/
Bolton Blows Off Black…
http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-hawk-predicts-israel-strike-on-iran-20080624-2w5s.html
Codge, old Bolton has been itching to shoot off his bolt since Kim Jong Il was a boy, but like Dr Strangelove (or, should that be “Dr Strangeglove”???) he’s got a recalcitrant arm, that just can’t quite be controlled.
I’ve always imagined his moustache twitching like some character from the cartoons (Rocky and Bullwinkle, but don’t quote me!) everytime someone says ‘nuke’. Too sad, the old Bolt.
As for Herr Zimmer wid da glimmer in his eye long gone, he’s truly past it, eh? Flash Gordon? He needs some flash memory, just to bring him up to this century, let alone this nearly ended decade.
Oh, sod it, look at the time…gotta…gotta, stop working and hit the sack.
night
I reckon Crazy John Bolton could become the first Neocon suicide bomber if someone doesn’t goddamn bomb bomb I-ran soon.
I can see that crazy mutherf**ker strapping himself up to the gunnels and detonating himself in the main street of I-ran…or in the United Nations building…or in Robert Gates’ office….hell anywhere you lily livered cowardly realists can see the greatness of the four letter word(get down on your knees and bow) BOMB.
In immortal neocon speak….Faster, Faster Please…Bomb Bomb Bomb.
#147 [and as for me well i’m the cause], yes amigo, you are the naughty one.
* you caused cat woman’s bruised ego,
* my pet’s petulant
* the daily convulsion,
* stole the thunder of Showy,
* invented a new net language,
* made the Platonian logic illogically logical
* caused the flappin’ of the buttrflies that led to the tsunami
* exposed the lazy one (Jen, You should go and read what actually happened), as per her usual self
* fixed Swanee heart attack for me
* made fish & chips trendy again
* the reason for the sun is shining
other than that you haven’t done much my amigo, a very good day for you, GG and the PBs. Just an advice to the C one, dont take it too seriously.
Great day of polling for the Kid
Michigan + 9 PPP
Indiana + 1 SurveyUSA
and NAtional LA Times/Bloomberg +12
Everywhere he has been weak, he has turned around in the last few weeks, Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire and now Michigan
Looks like ESJs Thanksgiving Turkey might need more time in the oven eh?
Timbo: the Hillary supporters are coming over to Obama’s side, their joint campaign appearance later this week should help further reconciliation!
I’ll predict Michigan stays in the Democrat column this November
Indiana? A sleeper, potentially interesting!
181
HarryH
Maybe Bolten could start his own company: Patriot InVest
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Well, here at Patriot InVest we take the lead away from the leaders and InVest you with the power of one…one god (or Allah) almighty blast to get you into heaven and them into the other place!
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Get yourself InVested today, and join hundreds of other fully satisfied customers…on the other side.
Good morning Kirribilli!
Please rush me an obligation free Patriot InVest prospectus NOW!!
More bang for one’s buck is where I’m at.
‘But the great majority of Clinton voters have transferred their allegiance to Obama, the poll found. Only 11% of Clinton voters have defected to McCain.’
Timbo, plus 15 on a 4 way ticket…
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll25-2008jun25,0,5763707.story
gobble gobble…
Turkey, the real deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU_MSxCoAW4
Ron @173: Something like this? http://www.theartnewspaper.com/imgart/190-am-dubai-camel.jpg
EC,
Don’t be fooled. That is the same package sold by Obama Bin Laden which promised martyrs there would be 72 Virgins awaiting them in heaven. Read the fine print.
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ok/state/iraq/virginians.htm
Bill’s ready to offer his own special brand of ‘assistance’ after Obama apologises to him! Go Bill. Hope you can make the general as amusing as you did the primaries. http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/why_bill_clintons_miffed_at_obama.php
June 24: Bomb-Bomb’s Burdens
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/patoliphant;_ylt=ArbfHgoihYC8pcvwtzvzSQLd.sgF
Ahhhhh, GG. So THAT’S what they mean by “pie” in the sky when you die.
Morning all -
Finns- you’re usual charming self I see.
BO at 171
Yep it’s all happening. Never a dull moment.
http://www.builderonline.com/mortgages-and-banking/fbi-arrests-60-people.aspx?cid=BLDR080610002
http://www.builderonline.com/economic-conditions/minnesota-builder-files-chapter-11.aspx?cid=BLDR080610002
I wish some IT nerd would tell me how they are going to stop the fraudulent vote counting with the “Die-Bold” machines.
Big O can have all the Mo he is getting but if they can not neuter the fraud counts it means for nothing.
193 EC
Brilliant toon.
I’ve noticed i always seem to admire that Pat Oliphant’s work. Is he a particularly famous tooner or new kid on the block?
He’s good.
196 Assume its the same Pat Oliphant who comes from Adelaide, as been around for a long time and for many years in US.
GOP going for green
Senate Republicans aim to undercut Democrats’ claim to be the environmentally conscious party by combining their own conservation message with a longstanding push for more oil drilling.
more…
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-going-for-green-2008-06-24.html
Obama in the driver’s seat but McCain reads the map
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) holds important advantages in the states that decided recent presidential elections, despite the strong headwind Republicans face this November.
more….
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-in-the-drivers-seat-but-mccain-reads-the-map-2008-06-24.html
Courting the black caucus in Colombia
One month before the White House finished negotiations with the Colombian government on a free trade deal, a Republican-leaning organization began working with black members of Congress on a project in the South American country.
more…
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/courting-the-black-caucus-in-colombia-2008-06-24.html
Obama Leads McCain by 15 Points as Voters Reject Republicans.
June 25 (Bloomberg) — Democrat Barack Obama has opened a 15-point lead in the presidential race, and most of the political trends — voter enthusiasm, views of President George W. Bush, the Republicans, the economy and the direction of the country — point to even greater trouble for rival John McCain.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agCTbSDJ83rc&refer=home
Obviously the seal issue hasn’t kicked in yet.
This bit is highly significant from the same article.
McCain is struggling with traditional Republican base voters. Fifty-one percent of those who identify themselves as members of the religious right say they aren’t enthusiastic about voting for McCain. That could hurt him in the South, the only region where McCain has a bare lead over Obama.
lots more..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agCTbSDJ83rc&refer=home
It will be interesting to see the colour change in the Votemasters map when he updates it tonight about 10.30pm. A lot more blue states I suspect. Looks like my enthusiasm has not been misplaced, although still away to go yet. http://www.electoral-vote.com
New Mexico senate Tom Udall Democrat 58% Steve Pearce Republican 30%
Blow out in a swing state. Colorado too.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
I think Udall, Warner and Jeanne Sheanne(New Hampshire) are all specials to win extra senate seats for the Democrats this November.
I meant to say both Udalls LOL, the one in New Mexico, and the one in Colorado.
Why would a whole lot of states change colour on EV? The only poll that shows Obama winning where previously he wasn’t is the SUSA poll in Indiana. I’m not sold on EV anyways… all he’s doing really is collating state-wide polls. Any outlier poll just throws the model out. He doesn’t seem to be doing anything really innovative with the numbers.
WOW!
John McCain isn’t certain to win his home state of Arizona?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/24/20353/3917/612/541451
Progressive @ 208,
That is a shockingly badly-conducted poll in Arizona. The headline figures are:
McCain 38
Obama 28
Undecided 34
Any poll that has an undecided figure of 34% is really REALLY poorly-done.
That said, it’s clear that Obama currently has a clear lead over McCain both nationally and in they key swing states (Arizona is not a key swing state). The fact that on RCP Averages, McCain is now behind Obama in Indiana and Virginia (2 states that haven’t voted Democrat since 1964), as well as being behind in every Kerry state, shows that he needs to start turning things around soon or he may be in for an extremely tough campaign this fall…
Btw, the link for the Arizona poll is:
http://www.azpbs.org/horizon/poll/2008/6-24-08.htm
207 Al Check his past performance, its excellent.
209 Swing Lowe He’s still not a certainty. Like Howard he’ll have to fight a reargard action.
Democrats have plenty of money, advertising is cheap in Arizona compared to other states and BINGO!
It’s not a good sign for McCain that he has to spend money in states that should be safe Republican territory!
Chris B @ 211,
If McCain is forced to fight a rearguard action in Arizona in October, this election will already be O-V-E-R by then, with Obama winning in a clear landslide.
At this stage, I am not convinced that things will get that bad for McCain – I expect him to get some bounce after he announces his VP choice and another bounce after the Convention in early September (which occurs after the Democrats’ Convention).
So, as long as he holds his own in the debates in October, I don’t see McCain losing to Obama in a landslide in November.
Of course, the issue of whether McCain can win in November is another question entirely…
Chris,
Check the methodology. The only reason his past performance is excellent is because the polls for that year accurately predicted the final result. For the 2004 presidential election, he used
The most accurate (staggeringly enough) was the second one, and that’s the process he now uses (except elevated to a 7 day average).
Now subtract all the “safe” states, in which polls showed a candidate ahead by 5% or more in the leadup to the 2004 election, and that really leaves the states that he was “predicting” as Washington, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia and Florida. Two of those states he called “too close to call” so only made predictions in 8 of those states, one of which he got wrong (Iowa). Of the other seven, Washington, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire all showed fairly steady polling in favour of one candidate in the leadup to the election (which ended up being right). His method really only made predictions in 4 states, 3 of which were right.
As I said, he’s not doing anything innovative with the numbers, just collating the statewide polls.
The media in Arizona HATE McCain which doesn’t help him.
And I note that Billary is electoral poison according to that Arizona poll. She will cost Obi 5% of the vote. At least we don’t have to put up with all that silly “Make Billary VP coz it’ll help you win” guff anymore.
In today’s Cronkite-Eight poll, the following results were found:
Putting Sen. Hillary Clinton on the ticket as his vice-presidential running mate could cost Sen. Barack Obama about 5 percentage points in Arizona, according to a new statewide Cronkite/Eight Poll conducted among registered voters June 20-21, 2008. When asked whether they would vote for Sen. John McCain or Obama, 38 percent said they would vote for McCain and 28 percent said they would vote for Obama 34 percent were undecided. When asked whether they would vote for McCain or an Obama/Clinton ticket, 47 percent said they would support McCain and 32 percent said they would choose the Obama/Clinton ticket 21 percent were undecided.
Swing Lowe
That’s an awfully big “If”. I don’t know how much the debates count, as Bush managed to lose all his without much downside, but I think McBush is going to be SLAUGHTERED in the debates. The cleaners will be in to mop up the blood. He speaks very poorly, can’t hold a train of thought, has a very poor grasp of issues and has flip-flopped on every issue so often he will have trouble remembering what his current position is.
Chris B @ 210,
Whilst Electoral Vote has a decent record in previous elections, it’s hard to go past Real Clear Politics – in 2004, they only got one state wrong – Wisconscin (projected to go to Bush, instead went to Kerry). In 2006, they projected every close race correctly (margins were slightly off, but the winners were correct).
So I have to say I prefer the RCP average as a more accurate estimate of electoral college votes – there seems to be more method in their madness than Electoral Vote (or Fivethirtyeight for that matter).
Sorry… right at the end there, where I said “Washington, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire all showed fairly steady polling…”, I meant Virginia, not NH.
HarryH at 196, yes, Oliphant one of the best and he’s been at it for a long time. No Paddy come lately this man. He’s seen more bullshit in his day than a cattle yard auctioneer and you’ll notice in the link, he’s been awarded the National Sep Political Cartoonist’s award 7 times.
Heavy medalling for a cartoonist!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Oliphant
—————–
codger, rooly excellent clip at 189, commend it to all. Caught it in print at the time but the “son et lumiere” sure packs a wallop. Maybe it’s simply an oversight that this “footage” didn’t play on American MSM.
They must have all been out to lunch at the same time, I guess, and just missed it. Coulda happened to any broadcasting corporation.
215 Al Regardless it’s still not bad and not far out at the end, which is what we want.
Diogenes @ 217,
That very well may be the case – in which case there will be a landslide.
But your example of Bush is very pertinent. In 2000, Bush clearly lost the 3rd (I think) Town Hall-style debate on the issues. However, what most people took out from that debate was Al Gore’s constant sighing to Bush’s answers – it led to the impression not only that he considered himself intellectually superior to Bush (no dispute here
) but more importantly, that he was arrogant and condescending.
This debate took place at a time when Gore had the momentum in the polls and a “win” in that particular debate was projected to give him an easy ride to the White House. Instead, he fell in the polls and was only able to catch up to Bush by election day due to revelations in the final week of the campaign that Bush had been caught drink-driving in his younger years.
What this episode shows is that whilst Gore was clearly the better debater compared to Bush, the way he handled his intellectual advantage came across as arrogant to middle America – which is a major risk for Obama in the October debates this year.
So – whilst we all expect Obama to easily win the debates this year – remember that not only will McCain prepare extensively for them, but that even if Obama is better on the issues on the day, he can still “lose” purely on tone…
SL,
Expect to win the debates? Given, Obama has reneged on his town meeting debate agreement with McCain, makes you wonder.
Obama seems strong in a controlled environment where he can use his undoubted oratory skills coupled with a teleprompter. However, he does not perform as well “on the fly”. It also explains his refusal to do one on on interviews with experienced journalists who will drive through he bunting of his rhetoric to seek answers to real questions about his policies.
I was unaware there was ever an agreement with McCain GG. Wasn’t McCain pushing for ten, and Obama said he would only do one? The whole idea always reminds me of Town Hall (the website that is).
Al,
It might have been a none core promise like the election funding one.
Personally I think Obama should do all ten.
He should fight for them to be scheduled as close together and late in the day as possible.
I think by about half way through a tired and grumpy McCain should self destruct nicely.
dogb – I disagree. Why give McCain the free publicity? He only wants these debates cos he can’t afford to campaign on his own and wants Obama’s platform. He’s been offered 5 debates, if he doesn’t want them, fine.
Pancho – Perhaps. I do think Obama should pressure the old man mercilessly (without appearing to do so).
I’m just thinking one debate per day for ten days plus travel time. Imagine doing that when you’re 72 years old – I think the poor old guy would just come unravelled – live, on national television.
Pancho,
McCain can legitimately run the “empty chair” trick for the “empty rhetoric” Obama if he tries that on. Obama says he wants to give politics back to the people. Yet, won’t meet them to explain how this is going to be done.
Why won’t Obama debate John McCain. What’s his hidden agenda? Glass jaw?
Perhaps he can use the internet to show how up close and personal a POTUS he would be.
222 Swing Lowe
I think that’s an excellent point. Obama will win the debates easily if you were voting on who was the best debater but perception is the key. I’ve read people say that Bush II actually won the debates in terms of getting peolpe to vote for him because no-one expected him to come across as well as he did. He was likeable, had a good turn of phrase, feisty and easy to relate to. He even made a few good points.
Obama will be expected to win the debates easily. So the only advantage he will get is if McCain self-destructs. Which I think is almost certain.
GG -I can’t really believe BHO’s afraid of McCain.
It’s debatable but IMO he held his own against Hillary and she’s an order of magnitude better than McCain.
GG
I agree. If Obama can survive 20 debates with Hillary, who is an excellent debater, he can easily clean up on McCain who is deplorable.
And remember, with Hill he didn’t have the advantage of the better message. They were essentially debating from the same side of the room.
Maybe Obama is just being kind- not wanting to utterly decimate and humiliate McCain in public, which is the guaranteed outcome.
You know, the new politics thing.
Jen,
That would be a very risky strategy indeed. The key to implementing this mythical ‘new politics’ would surely have to be actually winning the election.
There are two sides to debates/debate talk – the politics on the one hand, and the tactics on the other.
First, why would anyone need more than 5 to get a grasp of the policy and politics? This will be Obama’s response. He is also running an energetic 50 state campaign over several months. He’ll be face to face with a heap more people than gramps, so shirking/hiding won’t really cut it as an arguement.
This will lead people to look at the tactics. Why does McCain want 10 debates? Why not 5? Why not 20? Why should Obama acquiese to McCains preferred demand?
A couple of things could happen – McCain will harp and whinge, be called on it and seem old, or will realise how far behind he is and take whatever he can get. Beggars shouldn’t be choosers if they don’t want to get wiped out in a reverse Reagan election.
From the Obama campaign’s point of view, asides not wanting to cede their popularity and give the old boy free publicity on their stage, they would be know how much McCain wants and needs these debates. Hence, tactically, it’s a non-starter.
DG,
Jen would contend you have to do it nicely, or not at all.
I just think there is a lot of Obama wishful thinking going on around the debate . The reasons he won’t debate are all about not wanting to “scare the horses”.
Ronald Reagan reportedly slept for most of his term in office. Yet he is regarded very fondly within the USA as one of the better Presidents. So the ageist meme of the Obamaphiles does not hold up to scrutiny or is of little importance.
Perhaps Obama is concerned that he’ll be seen as being too twitchy to elect. I am not convinced that mainstream America wants to change too much of their lifestyle. Obama could appear as a bit scary seeing as ‘change” is a big part of his mantra.
I agree with Pancho on this … Obama is attracting thousands of people to his events in every state whilst McCain is battling to fill a room, why should Obama give him that exposure.
Yesterday PB’s were talking about the situation in Zimbabwe – so have look at
http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/98.php?cl_tf_sign=1
and sign the petition “calling for an emergency summit of Southern African countries to broker a legitimate government in Zimbabwe — and end the campaign of terror that Robert Mugabe has unleashed.”
Avaaz will place be placing ads with this message in South African newspapers this week.
I agree with Swing Lowe’s point.
Arrogance is Obama’s only enemy from here til November. I don’t mean arrogance of thought, against Republicans that is a good thing. Fight them hard on ideas. i mean arrogance in demeanour.
Be forceful Barack….but learn to lower your chin a bit in the debates…it’s not a good look.
EC 220
Thx for the reply. I’m not a devourer of political toons but do enjoy them mostly. I find that when i admire a toon i glance at the author. I seem to glance at the word Oliphant a lot.
cheers.
In respect to the debates, it is clearly a smart tactical move by the McCain camp – 10 debates means 10 nights of free national advertising for the McCain campaign (as well as the Obama campaign, but they could probably afford to pay for this anyway) during the most crucial part of the general election campaign.
However, IMHO, I think Obama should take McCain up on the offer. If Obama is as good a debater/public speaker as we all think he is, he should easily win the majority of these debates – and thus, guarantee a win in November. The fact of the matter is that if Obama can’t beat McCain on average over the 10 debates, he probably isn’t the most qualified person to be POTUS. After all, weren’t we all complaining last year that Howard should have engaged in more debates with Rudd???
On Zimbabwe, this piece argues that military force is the only option.
But they need a casus belli for that. Genocide perhaps.
Military force might be the only option left for Zimbabwe
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23916754-32682,00.html
237 GG
I was reading this article about evangelicals:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/dr-dobson-has-just-handed_b_108989.html
While reading a few of the replies, i came across this:
“To go back to a speech in 2006 that got rave reviews btw and use it today tells me a couple of things it tells me that Obama is making inroads with the young evangelicals and that people like Dobson is losing their influence with this group. This is one of the reasons why Obama connects with the young. Be it liberals college students or evangelicals they are HUNGRY for something different. They want to be more active and Obama has effectively tapped into that so its a concern for people like Dobson. ”
As much as this election is about the issues, it is mostly about generational change. The young from all spectrums of thought seem to be saying that they are sick of the way things are done by the “Baby Boomer” generation.
Obama is the figurehead, and recipient, of this mood.
The Clintons suffered from it. The Republicans are suffering from it. Religious Leaders are suffering from it.
This is a changing of the guard. The ousting of the ideology and methods of “Baby Boomers” and the rising of “Generation X and Y”, for want of better terms.
Life is all about cycles…not least of all in politics.
237 GG
….So the ageist meme of the Obamaphiles does not hold up to scrutiny or is of little importance.
Really GG. His Grandfather died of a heart attack at 61. His Father died of an unspecified illness at 70. He has several well documented health issues.
Seriously, you could make the point he’s already living on borrowed time. He could keel over any time. If the US decides to elect him they better make damn sure he picks a good VP.
dogb
McCain’s resemblence to a cadaver is not coincidental. Mortality statistics based on his age, family and medical history indicate that he’d be an awfully good chance not to see out his term. One healthy mum at 94 doesn’t cut it. He is more likely to follow the male members of his family.
Diogenes.
I’d say the chances of him seeing out a full term would be considerably lower than the chance of him dying before November.
I’m not wishing it on the guy but you can’t ignore it.
Diogenes-
Re: Zimbabwe.
It’s time the UN stopped with the strong words and went in there to oust Mugabe.
Just for interest sake I went to one of those sites that predict your date of death and entered McCain’s info as accurately as I could.
It told me he’s been dead since 18th of March 1998.
(Of course it also told me my dad is dead and he still jogs every day.)
Jen
That would create a dangerous precedent. We only hear about Mugabe so much because of the British interests there. He’s hardly the only thuggish dictator in the world. If you argue that he should be ousted militarily, why doesn’t the same logic apply to all the other dictators?
You can’t selectively apply foreign policy like that, unless they’ve got large oil reserves when it obviously is the right thing to do.
Thanks Grace.
Done, and passed on to others.
dogb
I worked out he has a 5% chance of dying before the election in November and about a 30% chance of dying in office. The numbers are rough but very significant.
Is this the same as premature ejaculation for Emperor Obama?
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1102702&format=text
Zimbabwe is descending into a Rwanda-like situation. Reports of murders and torture starting to come out. How long should the world wait?
And Diogs –
I’m talking UN, not unilateral action by the US!
I loved the line from that article Finns:
#250 – Diogenes Says: [I worked out he has a 5% chance of dying before the election in November and about a 30% chance of dying in office. The numbers are rough but very significant.]
Diog, i watched a fascinating doco last night on the History Channel called “RFK Must Die”, about the assassination of Robert Kennedy. One of the theories was that the CIA was involved in order to “protect Amerika”.
i heard Bobby muttered to Abraham, Martin and John as they walking over the hill, “he has a 30% chance of dying before the election in November and about a 5% chance of dying in office. The numbers are rough but very significant”. I can only assume they were referring to the kid. Bobby should know, shouldn’t he?
The new Pennsylvania poll is interesting. I have not factored Penn into my calculations previously – I simply assumed it was an assured Democratic hold (rather like I assumed that Florida was an assumed Republican hold).
the Panch
#48 Kyoto
Decided to give a whirl to replying to your post There been no gotcha’s , the queston did he support the to ‘ratify’ Kyoto was simply to get you away from serving up Muralis on the Kyoto’s , and instead go to the whys and benefits and disadds of his decision not to support to ‘ratify’ And now in #48 finally a Warnie , you say at end “So in short – no I don’t believe that Obama will ‘ratify’ Kyoto” So inded you are acknowloging that seeing “Obama will not ‘ratify’ Kyoto” then obviously he has not previously said he supports to ‘ratify’ Kyoto either We are finally in agreement , Warnie was always better than the Murali’s , but on the political benefits & risks to Obama and to CC regarding why he will not support to ‘ratify’ Kyoto I tink we’re still in disagrement Where to go to is look what risky & benefit Tyoto options were available to Obama ands still are for awhile
Rudd said i will ‘ratify’ Kyoto Actually we both know parliament had to approve it and did , & then Rudd wizzzed of to sign it The US started the process in the reverse , Bill Clinton had the authority to sign in 1998 & did (Goreo on his behalf) However to make it enforceable still requires the Congress to ‘ratify’ as Bills signature is still valid The political & CC choices Obama had were
OPTION 1/ whether he Obama would go to the voters with a POTUS policey that prevnted the Big Oil & Energy companies & the Republicams from attacking Obama on Kyoto & CC through a policy implying (and meaning) not to ‘ratify Kyoto’ , and further by Obama saying he’ll form a new body (the 13 member Global Energy forum ,GEF) to ‘liase’ wit Kyoto & its science panel (and ultimately merge with it sometime and on some basis)
Obama chose to take this option
A/ The political benefits of this option are it is politically ‘safer’ couse to git to be POTUS because Obama can not bee politically attacked by the Big Oil & Energy companies nor by the Republicans , because by saying he’ll form his own ‘GEF’ body in the future (that will liase somehow with ‘Kyoto’ and also saying sometime in future his ‘GEF’ will merge with ‘Kyoto’) then seeing Obama’s ‘GEF’ has notr even been formed , no one knows what if anything it will ever do , it cann’t be attacked by the ‘right’ , and (ii) no Dems senators etc presently are under pressure to answer re kyoto (iii) that by ‘nuancing’ over time , Senators can be coalversed This political approach perhaps improves getting POTUS
B/ The political & CC risks of this option are (i) Obama has no peoples ‘mandate’ to pressure a reluctant Senate to ‘ratify Kyoto’ mark 1 or a later negotiated ratifying of Mark 11 from 2013 (as a counter to the Big Oil & Big Energy compays counter pressure to Senators to say NO to any emissions target) and (ii) Obama has committed to no world based binding & enforceable emission targgets at all (iii) For the 4 years 2009 to 2012 there are no ‘Kyoto’ type presssures on the US to limit its current nassive emission pollution ands (iv) Because Obama needs the Senate’s ‘ratification’ majority vote to approve any future world agreed emission target , but in 1995 the Senate voted 97 to nil (inkluding all Dems) to oppose any world wide enforceable emission targetss , how can the ‘nuancing’ of politicans suggested that Obama will do be powerful enough alone against big vested Energy interests (who’ll put Senators own seats in danger ), hence the 97 to zip vote , unless yous can blame someone else , ‘the mandate’ man (v) the alternative “GEF” body is not even formed , the GEF may not even function , there are no agreed emission targetts or penalties & even if there were they won’t be the same as what Kyoto mark 11 works out so there’s a 2 body conflict , meaning nothing happens
So Obama may end up being the POTUS but he may not have the ‘mandate’ leverage to get any world agreed ‘ratification’ CC agreement through the Senate
OR
OPTION 2/ whethr he Obama would go to voters as a perpective POTUS saying I support the ‘ratifiction of Kyoto’ , the negotiation of Kyoto mark 11 & its ratification and I will attempt to persuade Congress to approve both with yous the people’s “mandate” to tell congresmen to ratify (because CC will hurt our kids)
Obama chose not to take this option
A/ The political & CC benefeets of this option are (i) Obama gets a peoples “mandate” to ptressure the Senate to ‘ratify Kyoto’ and/or ‘rastify Kyoto mark 11” (as a counter to the Big Oil & big Energy Companys counter pressure to Senators to say NO to ratify targets) (ii) an immediate World Kyoto pressure & non compliance penalties on the US to reduce their massive emissions for the 4 years from 2009 to 2012 (iii) an immediate involvement from Jan 2009 by Obama in the Kyoto protocols & negotiations to do a deal now for a Kyoto mark 11 effective from 2013
B/ The political risks of ths option are that (i) the Big Oil & Energ companies & the Republicams being able to attack Obama , their attacks would be on Kyoto itself because of its has known emission targets , coimmittments & penalties so the attack would be the ecanomic costs consumers would ware (ii) the penalties for failing to make 2012 targetts & (iii) Senators asked to declare their Kyoto hands in advance (iv) the Kyoto itself scare of allegedly ‘selling out’ US companies (the Oil & energy ones)
OR
OPTION 3/ whether he Obama could have simply copied Hillarys policy of saying i will join Kyoto’s full protocols & negotiations now to have a Kyoto mark 11 (effective from 2013) agreed by 2010 and have it begore Congress to ratify by 2010
Obama chose not to take this option
A/ The political & CC benefits of this option are (i) Obama gets a peoples “mandate” to ptressure the Senate to ‘ratify a Kyoto mark 11” (as a counter to the Big Oilys & Big Energy Companys counter pressure to Senators to say NO to targets) (ii) Right now under Kyoto , countrys are negotiating for a 2013 onward Kyoto Mark 11 deal , and this option puts Obama in immediately from Jan 2009 within those protocols & negotiations of Kyoto of this post 2013 Kyoto mark 11 (iii) senators are not forced at all to declare their ‘Kyoto vote’ hands in advance (iv) an option to re-negotiate or trde the 2008-2012 penalties under Koyoto mark 1 and (v) immediate World Kyoto pressure on the US to reduce emissions for the 4 years from 2009 to 2012
B/ The political risks are (i) a much greater greater scare campaign than the ‘GEF’ option 1/ of the Big Oil & Big energy and Republicans , but not as big a scare as would occur under the Kyoto mark 1 & 11 option 2/ (ii) the tying of the US in with all other countrys in its energy usage , so the US loses some ‘soverainty’ (iii) a fear campaign enrgy costs will rise
Summary , This post is not about a CC choice between Obama and McCain , this is a choice about what Obama can consider as a new policy despite the risks to put at the Convention You appear to support Obama’s option 1/ and whilst I suggest the political risks are much less , the CC benefits are much less too I favour either option 2/ or Hillarys option 3/ , either of which means once the Senate ratifys from a POTUS’s ‘mandate’ pressure , then neither any future US politician nor any Big Oily company can thereafter stop the US being bound by the Kyoto collective agreements of all 199 countries emission targets & collective penalties , backed up by the worlds top 400 sientists The political risks are higher , but in nett vote terms think a vote winner anyway , and also the the greater political risk is warranted by the existent CC risk
Note , I listed 5 reasons in 1/ B/ (i) to (v) against Obama’s current policy option 1/ , but I now think of as we go furthr adverses to that current policy , excluding carbon credits , as follows:
1/ (vi) per Obama’s own policy , quote “Obama will start reducing emissions immediately in his administration by establishing strong anual reduction targets , and he’ll also implement a mandate of reducing emissions to 1990 levels by 2020” However Kyoto mark 1 requires developed Countrys to be 5% below their 1990 levels averaged each year from 2008 to 2012 , so Obama’s equalling of 1990 levels by 2020 is 8 years later and a 5% higher emissions target No one in the US has ever mentioned this barbarianism but maybe I’ve written too much here today to see a hidden code
1/ (vii) The Kyoto scientists say 30% to 50% reductions are requird by 2020 and Obama’s policy of just equalling the 1990 levels rather 30% to 50% reductions by 2020 means no north pole left
1/ (vii) If there is a POTIUS Obama with no “mandate” to support “ratifying Kyoto” mark 1 or mark 11 And at the same time the Dems control the Senate from November for the first time on their own since 1994 and at the same time not one of those Dems Senators have ANY “mandate” either to ratify any Kyoto or other type CC agreement , one wishs to rely on ‘nuancing’ vs 1995 history presedent of
Yet In 1995 when all Countrys started talking about a Kyoto type CC agreement with emission targets & penaltiys , the US Big Oil & Big Energy Companys pressured all Senators (all Dems and all Republicans) to vote 97 to zero to oppose any such Kyoto emissions target type agrement …OVER 12 months BEFORE an Kyoto agreement was even drafted !! So whether Bill Clinton had a ‘mandate’ or not was irrelevant (he didn’t anyway) , because from 1994 until 2006 the Republicans have controlled the Senate , meaning no Kyoto ‘ratification’ was ever going to occurr anyway Whereas now in 2008 the Dems finally on their will ‘control’ the senate As an aside only , Billy Clinton despite the Repugs Senate control from 1994 & against big Oil pressure , got gore to sign Kyoto in 1998 , so to lock the republicans in the future either to Kyoto or to make them ware the future political costs ( not China concerns) This history of Senators voting against a Kyoto type agreement in 1995 by 97 to zero suggests a Dems senate control in 2008 and a POTUS ‘mandate ‘in 2008 are essential for a Kyoto CC So a ’mandate’ would mean Obama taking up option 2/ or 3/ at conventions and dropping option 1/ So guys & gals Obama should climb aboard the barbarian greeny gallactics and now will go back and put some Groupthink paras and point numbers for futire arrows
Ron-
if I had the kind of concentration required I’d be Diogenes.
was just reading another kyoto article and the 1995 vote 97 to 0 reversed my 5 & 7 memory and makes it 1997 vote 95 to 0 , will check that but the 0 vote is the same the message from that vote that pretended trie to tie in undeveloped countries was really ant emission targets cause the Big Oilys & Big Energys get affected in their massive profits
aaargggh.
Hiya Jen, maybe you should just stick being the mother hen of the cry babies. they need your cuddling and coddling
Ron – you truly are an output demon!
I had a skim, but probably missed some. Nonetheless my responses:
I agree that climate change is urgent, but I don’t think that the US and Australia make a rational analogy when looking at real implications. It remains a fact that Australia is heading towards making its target (hence signing on has no negative consequence) and the US is not.
Hypothetically, the position of a US politician running on a pledge to ratify Kyoto (which s/he cannot do) would be accepting, from memory, hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. This would be a brave gesture, but one that would be campaigned vigourously against. Opponents, who would come from both sides of the political aisle could claim that Obama is an elitist not acting in the national interest. This would not be pragmatic politics acting in the interest of future agreements.
.
Obama has said he will work within the UNFCCC in government. This is the body working towards a post-Kyoto agreement.
.
A couple of side points. You say that ‘Kyoto mark 1 requires developed Countrys to be 5% below their 1990 levels averaged each year from 2008 to 2012 ‘. This is not the case for Australia, which is allowed to be at 108% of its 1990 levels. This is another reason why we ain’t so brave signing on.
While Warne was great to watch, Murali has taken more wickets.
In L.A., the stars line up for Obama.
His battle with Clinton split A-listers, but at a gala that raises an estimated $5 million, they signal they’ve come together.
Sen. Barack Obama’s bid for Hollywood’s financial support was officially cinched Tuesday night at — where else? — a gala attended by celebrities, studio executives, producers, directors and other well-moneyed people.
more….
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obama25-2008jun25,0,7648164.story
Santa Barbara fumes over McCain drilling plan.
Even some of McCain’s supporters berate him for backing the idea of offshore oil exploration.
SANTA BARBARA — John McCain came to California promoting an array of ideas to spur the market for clean cars and otherwise reduce carbon emissions.
But in this coastal city, the site of a disastrous oil spill in 1969, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee was dogged by critics at nearly every turn for his recent embrace of offshore drilling.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign25-2008jun25,0,1618946.story
Turnout boost could favor Obama
Tribune analysis finds battleground red states could turn blue as Democrats push registration drive.
If Obama could inspire just 10 percent more Democratic voters under 30 to go to the polls than did four years ago, that alone could be enough to switch Iowa and New Mexico from red to blue, the analysis suggests.
more….
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-turnout-web-jun25,0,2780397.story
Iowa and New Mexico are going to Obama in any case, according to the polls.
266 David Gould All sounds good, but could you post liks?
Sorry links.
There was movement at CentreBet
For the word had gone around
That The Kid from Yeswecan had got away
He had joined the Netroots People
He was worth his weight in gold
And Bludgers all had gathered to the fray….
President – WINNER
OBAMA, Barack 1.50
MCCAIN, John 3.00
269 Enemy Combatant He he he.
EC,
So the question is, will Obama reach $1.85 by polling date so you can lay off and make a killing?
Ideology-Based Hiring at Justice Broke Laws, Investigation Finds.
Senior Justice Department officials broke civil service laws by rejecting scores of young applicants who had links to Democrats or liberal organizations, according to a biting report issued yesterday.
more….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/24/AR2008062400819.html
Excellent article on why Obama should pick Clinton as his running mate
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/its_not_even_close_obama_shoul.html
I’m not entirely convinced, but the points were articulated very well. Enough to get me to post a link to it, anyway
Yes, the 3 Amigos would accept the apology from the Obamabots here:
(CNN) – The same day that Bill Clinton’s office issued a statement saying that the former president is “committed to doing whatever he can” for Barack Obama, the Illinois senator told CNN that he and the Clintons will be “working closely together over the next couple of weeks to put together a plan.”
“They’re going to want to campaign actively on behalf of the Democratic ticket,” said Obama, “I am going to need them.”
“Bill Clinton is one of the most intelligent, charismatic political leaders that we have seen in a generation and he has got a lot of wisdom to impart,” he added.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/24/obama-i-am-going-to-need-clintons/
Ron 257
Thank you for that. I think there are two aspects you have not allowed for in that enchanting analysis.
Firstly, Obama could change tack when he runs for re-election in 2012 against Chelsea.
Secondly, I don’t buy all this “mandate” stuff. Obi will have so many policies that he can’t say he has a “mandate” for any of them. No matter what he campaigns with, Big Oil will buy off the House and Senate to filibuster anything that is contrary to their interests. These people have no interest in what the people want or have voted for. I honestly don’t think it would make much difference to climate change policy if Obi says he’ll ratify Kyoto. All it would do is reduce the chance of Obi winning.
Dio – 2016. She’ll still be too young in 2012. Gotta be 35.
Diogenes,
It’s the vibe.
Just go with it, heh man yeh.
Finns, after that last line you quote:
“Bill Clinton is one of the most intelligent, charismatic political leaders that we have seen in a generation and he has got a lot of wisdom to impart,” he added.”
There was another one which was missed by the reporters. Obama continued:
“I would like to offer my personal, heartfelt thanks for all that Bill did throughout the primary season to ensure that I became the Democratic nominee for the President of the United States. Believe me when I say, I don’t think we could have done it without him.”
Pancho, i was just warming up to the kid as he is seeing the folly of his ways and showing the right respect. you clearly demonstrated with your folly that you prefer McCain to win.
Seriously though, Bill could be a great campaign asset if he could be controlled. That’s a pretty big if – his lack of discipline was a huge problem to the end – but there is no denying when he put his megalomania to the side and campaigned out of sight in the Appalacians for Hillary he was a star.
pancho, i am also glad you are seeing the folly of you way.
Max @273 – that is a good article. I still don’t think Clinton as #2 is the best idea, but it definitely has become more attractive as some heat has come out of the campaign. The bit of the article I liked best however was Beckel’s decription of those counselling against this course of action with his words:
The inference, of course, is that Bob knows all about these things, and running campaigns. While true that he has run a campaign, unfortunately it was in 1984, the Democratic Party’s greatest shellacking, when Reagan picked up 525 electoral votes and near on 60% of the popular vote. History tells us Bob mightn’t be the guy to be taken serious on these matters.
heh!
Finns, I am humbled by your gracious acceptance of my personal growth. But just one last blast from the past…
“No. 2 to No. 1: Be My No. 2″
Still makes me chuckle
273 Max
That’s all easy for Bob Bechel to say.
He’s not the one that Hillary subconciously wants assasinated, he’s not the one that Billary stated was not fit to be President, he’s not the one that has to put up with their circus, he’s not the one that gets his political essence crushed just to accomodate the aforementioned circus and their ego’s etc etc etc.
Bechel is a hack….yep, another one on the way out who just don’t get it.
The Clintons are history. It is no longer 1993.
She is getting what she has angled for. She is getting her debt paid by the new Machine.
Then she will go back to being No.34 of 51 in the Democratic Senate.
Terry McAuliffe knew it was all over when he went on a bender for 3 days after Puerto Rico and before the Rules meeting. He was sloshed on every tv show in America for 3 days.
Hey the party was fun for a decade or so….but time moves on.
Only the bitter and delusional cling on.
PS: i’m not directing that last sentence at you Max.
pancho, [Bob mightn’t be the guy to be taken serious on these matters.] i can only assume that Karl Rove is your idol then.
Seeing possum here reminds me that i reckon his pick of Wes Clark is shaping up as a real chance for vp imo.
The ONLY main issue Obama trails McCain on is national security. He trounces him on economy,health,energy and Iraq and breaks even or leads on values.
Democrats will win regardless of who is VP, but Clark would be the sealer if the Party is anywhere near nervous.
I still think he wants Sibelius as his VP for 8 years of Governing though.
Time will tell.
Max at 273 says: “Excellent article on why Obama should pick Clinton as his running mate”.
Max, your linked article was by Bob Bechel. Of course someone like Bechel is pushing for HRC to be Obi’s Veep because they know that Obi can be hurt electorally thru HRC. Remember how Rush Limbaugh was urging his nutters to get out where they legitimately could in the Dem primaries and vote for HRC over Obi.
GOPper & Allied would much rather have had HRC as the Dem nominee because she’s easier to attack than The Kid. If she’s on the Dem ticket then she’ll still draw plenty of static.
Bobby B. is a Fox schill. He who calls the piper calls the tune.
From the wrap below your link:
“He(Bob Bechel) is a senior political analyst for the Fox News Channel and a columnist for USA Today”
From newshounds: “Democratic strategist” Bob Beckel’s main strategy during his three-day stint as Alan Colmes’ (Hannity and Colmes, PNAC spruikers extraordinaire) substitute was to ingratiate himself with the FOX News conservatives. Last night (1/27/06), Beckel was joined by another “Democratic Strategist,” Pat Caddell, a pollster who has distinguished himself by having an unusual zest for attacking Democrats.
http://www.newshounds.us/2006/01/28/democratic_strategists_bob_beckel_and_pat_caddell_think_bushs_violation_of_wiretapping_law_no_big_deal.php
Bobby Bechel is PNAC-connected up the wazoo. He, like everyone else paid for by Fox, do as they are told. Unless, Max, you buy the bit about Fox being “fair and balanced”, in which case there will be little one can do to convince you of Bobby B’s bias.
But then again, you said that you were only partially convinced:)
You goose EC 288,
Bob Beckel ran Mondales campaign in 1984, Pat Caddell was Carters pollster in 1976. Rather than just reading internet bios you should try and get beyond your own crude prejudices.
I just checked the Intrade market for Democratic VP.
The current leader is still Jim Webb, followed by Hillary. Third on the list is Possum’s nomination – Wesley Clark.
However, the clear leader still is “Field” – i.e, someone else. Who that person is anyone’s guess, although I note that my pick for nominee, Gov. Tim Kaine (D – VA), is not on the available list – so I still have hope that I’ve picked this correctly
The recent polling I’ve seen suggests Obama is ahead in both Iowa and New Mexico, but the leads are by no means large!
California on the other hand will be safe Democratic territory again, as it’s been since 1992.
Swing Lowe: My pick for VP would still be Edwards, I think he and Obama compliment each other very well. But, if they’re going for military experience, Wes Clark is your man.
Swing Lowe
Try this link and then hit the + sign next to the VP nominees lines. There is no “field” anymore. All the candidates are listed.
http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/
oops don’t think that link worked. just try this and then hit “politics” on the left list.
http://www.intrade.com/
Voter drive would put 9 states in play.
“Based upon the enthusiasm and the greater historical significance this time around, I certainly think a 20 percent increase in black turnout would be entirely within the range of possibility,” said David Bositis, a research associate who studies African-American voting trends at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, D.C.
Lots more….
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-turnoutjun25,0,3852013.story
MTV to Rock the Vote, Will Now Accept Political Ads.
WASHINGTON (AdAge.com) — Politicians can finally get their MTV. After declining political advertising since its inception in 1981, MTV is reversing course.
The Viacom MTV Networks channel — once known for round-the-clock music videos and now home to a host of reality shows — says it will now take political ads, though only from political candidates and party political committees, not from third parties.
Mmmm, I could imagine John McCain in a political ad rocking along. Yeah, right. Old man rock n roll.
I think they can see a heap of money coming from Obama
http://adage.com/campaigntrail/post?article_id=127973
Obama’s aim: 14 Bush states and local races.
Barack Obama will focus his resources largely in 14 states George W. Bush won in 2004, his chief field operative said Tuesday, hoping to score upsets in places like Virginia, Indiana, and Georgia.
But winning the White House won’t be his only goal, deputy campaign manager Hildebrand told Politico: In an unusual move, Obama’s campaign will also devote some resources to states it’s unlikely to win, with the goal of influencing specific local contests in places like Texas and Wyoming.
“Texas is a great example where we might not be able to win the state, but we want to pay a lot of attention to it,” Hildebrand said. “It’s one of the most important redistricting opportunities in the country.”
Texas Democrats are five seats away in each chamber from control of the state legislature, which will redraw congressional districts after the 2010 census.
Lots more…
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11320.html
It just keeps getting better.
Diogenoski & the Panchand other posters
#275 & #262
I do not understand why the US has not been criticsed by all ‘left’ blogers here
There are 182 Kyoto signatories to Kyoto , only 2 have not ratifed 9the US and the country Diogenoski told me about Kazzkhstan) However my research has found that Kazakhstan is signalled it will ratify
So that will leave the US as the ONLY country of the 182 not to have ratified The reason they have not ratified is they have to meet emission targets to protect our Planet and if they do not they get peanalties
‘oz’ is not a comparison to the US Lets look at other comparative developed countries obligationss vs the US for the 2008 to 2012 period in required emission reductions
Canada 6%
Japan 6%
USA 7% *********
UK 8%
Germany 8%
France 8%
EU was 8% as a group
So the US did NOT have a hard job vs other rich developed countrys at all
the only hard job the US has is Dems & Repug politicans protecting US big Oil & big energy companys at the expense of CC
ALL the politicans in these countrie had to face the music , but not US politicans
..
So the Panch I compare the US not to ‘oz’ but to all other developed countries
and think leav ‘oz’ out of comparison
..
So Diogenes your argumnt is contradictory 1/ “Big Oil will buy off the House and Senate to filibuster anything that is contrary to their interests” and 2/ “Obi will have soo many policies that he can’t say he has a “mandate” for any of them”
On your point 1/ , no Kyoto mark 11 will occur , mking your point 2/ academic
On my argument if you look at the details I did list , point 2/ can counter point 1/ and don’t suggest a key policy like CC does not become a ‘mandate’ pressure on Senators to keep their seats
..
IF all other develpoed counties can ratify & commit , i do not ewear any US pollie in 2008 beit Obama KHillary Edwards or anyone else not risking some political capital to do what every other countrys politicians hav had the courage to do
Finqally , my post #257 contains many arguments , so until most have those have been shot by this site down my barbarian case has something
GOP going for green. Oxymoron?
Senate Republicans aim to undercut Democrats’ claim to be the environmentally conscious party by combining their own conservation message with a longstanding push for more oil drilling.
The shift, to call for increased energy production and less oil use, allows Republicans and their presidential candidate, Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), to argue they will do whatever it takes to stop soaring gas prices. And it could throw cold water on Democratic attempts to link McCain with President Bush and the oil companies reaping record profits.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-going-for-green-2008-06-24.html
This one came out last week and everyone thought it was absurd. This was the first of two showing a 15% lead. For 2nd poll see PB # 201.
Barack’s Bounce The latest NEWSWEEK Poll shows the Democrat with a 15-point lead over McCain.
Barack finally has his bounce. For weeks many political experts and pollsters have been wondering why the race between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain had stayed so tight, even after the Illinois senator wrested the nomination from Hillary Clinton. With numbers consistently showing rock-bottom approval ratings for President Bush and a large majority of Americans unhappy with the country’s direction, the opposing-party candidate should, in the normal course, have attracted more disaffected voters. Now it looks as if Obama is doing just that. A new NEWSWEEK Poll shows that he has a substantial double-digit lead, 51 percent to 36 percent, over McCain among registered voters nationwide.
Lots more…
http://www.newsweek.com/id/142465/page/1/
Latest from the Votemaster.
The Republicans don’t seem to be able to get anything right this year. Of the 45 House seats in which the 2006 winner is not running, only 11 are held by Democrats and only two are seats the Republicans might conceivably pick up. One of these is the D+1 OR-05 district from which Darlene Hooley (D) is retiring (the other is AL-05). The Republican running in OR-05 had at least a fair chance of winning, until an Oregon woman, now 34, has stated that Erickson impregnated her and paid for her abortion.
more…
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Indiana Obama 48% McCain 47%
New Mexico Obama 49% McCain 46%
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Thank you for your ornitological observations, Eddy.
For a trained Historian, you’ve not drawn its lessons very well have you, sunshine? What people like Bobby Bechel or anyone else did for a quid 23 years ago is no foolproof indication of how they behave today, although in your case, one could possibly be persuaded otherwise.
Sorry if this comes as a shock to you, Edward dear boy, but people change.
Remember good old “Tumbledown Bob” Woodward of Watergate fame? You know, Bernstein and Woodward who deep throated then deep sixed Tricky Dicky? Wouldn’t want to tax you with too obscure a journalistic reference, Eddy, scholarly and gentlemanly though you are on most occasions.
” Some of Woodward’s critics accuse him of abandoning critical inquiry to maintain his access to high-profile political actors. Anthony Lewis called the style “a trade in which the great grant access in return for glory.” [8] Christopher Hitchens accused Woodward of acting as “stenographer to the rich and powerful.” [9] Woodward believed the Bush Administration’s claims of Iraqi WMDs prior to the war….”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Woodward
Do let me know if the “degree of difficulty” of my dialectic is beyond you, Eddy. Happy to dumb it down even furthur if it helps the 15 watt bulb in your cranium glimmer just that little bit more brightly.
Help!
just had my father for dinner (not literally), and he said that he hopes McCain wins because “at least he has experience.”
So now I am without family.
I’ll reblog as I left the end out
The average of 5% emission reducton I’ve refferred to is the average of all the develeped countries emissions required by 2012 So between 2008 to 2012 that is the average reduction for those 5 years combined thats required That combined 5% figure was arrived at after calculating each countriees indidual 5 year average reduction required between 2008 to 2012 combined , hense I listed the indidual targets of some of the bigger developed countrys below to show the US does not have a hard target , it has a hard lack of CC courage
Diogenoski & the Panchand other posters
#275 & #262
I do not understand why the US has not been criticsed by all ‘left’ blogers here
There are 182 Kyoto signatories to Kyoto , only 2 have not ratifed 9the US and the country Diogenoski told me about Kazzkhstan) However my research has found that Kazakhstan is signalled it will ratify
So that will leave the US as the ONLY country of the 182 not to have ratified The reason they have not ratified is they have to meet emission targets to protect our Planet and if they do not they get peanalties
‘oz’ is not a comparison to the US Lets look at other comparative developed countries obligationss vs the US for the 2008 to 2012 period in required emission reductions
Canada 6%
Japan 6%
USA 7% *********
UK 8%
Germany 8%
France 8%
EU was 8% as a group
So the US did NOT have a hard job vs other rich developed countrys at all
the only hard job the US has is Dems & Repug politicans protecting US big Oil & big energy companys at the expense of CC
ALL the politicans in these countrie had to face the music , but not US politicans
..
So the Panch I compare the US not to ‘oz’ but to all other developed countries
and think leav ‘oz’ out of comparison
..
So Diogenes your argumnt is contradictory 1/ “Big Oil will buy off the House and Senate to filibuster anything that is contrary to their interests” and 2/ “Obi will have soo many policies that he can’t say he has a “mandate” for any of them”
On your point 1/ , no Kyoto mark 11 will occur , mking your point 2/ academic
On my argument if you look at the details I did list , point 2/ can counter point 1/ and don’t suggest a key policy like CC does not become a ‘mandate’ pressure on Senators to keep their seats
..
IF all other develpoed counties can ratify & commit , i do not ewear any US pollie in 2008 beit Obama KHillary Edwards or anyone else not risking some political capital to do what every other countrys politicians hav had the courage to do
Finqally , my post #257 contains many arguments , so until most have those have been shot by this site down my barbarian case has something
Paragraphs Ron!
Excellent.
I think Ron’s right about Obama and Kyoto – his stance seems pretty cynical to me.
No disrespect, and let’s hope he makes a great President (the world needs one), but it makes you think he’s just another politician …
newy stats #308
“Excellent’
does that mean you are the fiirst one to agree here & join the Kyoto spaceship wild voyage of battle
Jen (the political orphan): “So now I am without family.”
Have you been informed of our 24/7 Bludger Adoption Initiative, Jen?
Betfair POTUS odds:
Obama 1.53
McCain 3.20
well, yes, paragraphs are a start.
Ron.re: ratifying Kyoto (and YES, I am a Green)
it is a great notion. But given the US contribution to greenhouse gas emissions, and given that Australia has been able to increase ours while signing, I fear it is the white elephant in the room.
We need an innovative approach and a major injection of funds to support renewable energy. Not to mention balancing the pressure of losing local manufacturing jobs to developing nations while trying to win an election.
In simplest terms it comes down to this: no one has an easy answer to the enormously complex environmental, economic , social and political quagmire that climate change is dealing up for us – but who do you think has a better chance of dealing with it?
I am going for the younger, environmentally educated,willing to negotiate and ‘have a dialogue with others’ Candidate, vs. more of the ’same old f#ckers that got us here in the first place’ one.
oh Ecky/Daddy … I am so happy now.
Do you want the left over roast lamb?
Ron – I don’t disagree with your underlying argument, which seems to be that the US has been a failure on climate change.
My point remains that the failure has been of the leadership of the previous decade and more. Obama cannot campaign with a pledge to ratify Kyoto and take the punishment for a decade’s inaction as he enters office, as he would be kneecapping himself.
He needs to act positively on taking office, and should be judged on what he does going forward, rather than on the failure that has been left for him. He may yet fail but has not to this point.
Side note – The EU has been somewhat cynical in its overall 8% reduction. I’m sure you could research it better than I, but my understanding is that much of this reduction has come from the decommissioning of Soviet industry traded to other states.
Jen,
Notwithstanding the comments of others I suspect Obama may balance the economy vs environment issue by taking the US down a more protectionist path – not good for us, or many countries.
And McCain’s record on the environment is not all that bad (for an American politician).
In matters green this election is not quite such a clear-cut choice as you seem to make out.
Dyno
thanks , CC is so impotrant , policy integrity is paramount , CC is the only world problem where time is a factor
JEN
forget ‘oz’ , we were the one of 2 big exceptions in mark i , ONLY because of our cleared land continent
For goodness sake look at my #307 , the targets are fair for ALL those rich developed countries includig the US Yet the US is holding out That makes getting India & China into mark 11 emission committments verty hard NO ONE in the rest of the world will take notice of Obama if he does not commit to mark 11 , THEY will be demanding of the US !!!! And forget McCain , i’m talking Obama needs to chnge
Dyno-
I think you misread me. I fear that there is no one yet capable of really addressing the envirnomental issues running for POTUS. It’s political poison once jobs get cut, fuel prices rise etc etc – the inevitable outcomes.
All I am saying is that given that I want to see the old regime buried I accept (unwillingly) that we will get a compromised approach due to local economic concerns.
however, I am hoping (maybe as naively sa i am constsntly accused of – or maybe pragmatically) that there is more chance of some positive change with Obama (Dem.)than McCain(GOP).
Ron-
dare I say that you are more utopian than I.
Want some nose clips?
Pancho
re EU , alot has come from that ara , and Russia itself originally benefited in its targets However the targets have had an effect in the EU and they know they pay the penalty in mark 11 which what makes the sysytm a fair incentive our point of difference is the political risk I think he needs to take now ‘re mandates’ otherwise I do not believe he can get Senate ratification later and I further feat but have not said till now that idf he does not , frankly i see a ‘deal’ being done by the G8 and India & China etc outside of Kyoto mark 11 , “dressed up” , which does NOT meet the 400 scientists required 2020 target It may get presented to the world as the best possible deal I’m saying to avoid my scenario of either 1/ the Senate ratification failure or 2/ this G8 etc ‘deal’ I forshadow , needs the mandate change & committment directly into Kyoto mark ii and Obama is left with that choice my predictions of 1/ or 2/ are buit on distrust of all politicans and the worlds politcans past failures , escept Kyoto
Jen! You remember bubble & squeak. Yumbo gumbo.
http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20080624_mcterror/
Wed June 25: “It’s a Big Club…..and you ain’t in it!”
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/billschorr;_ylt=AhCBuKJf48KJOQ0MXNigbnUxvTYC
The Big Club & The Ameican Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw
Do we really want a 72yo who doesn’t know how to use a computer as the leader of the free world in 2008-2012?…cmon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNehRSWmvJM&NR=1
We just had an idiot for 8 years. I’m not suggesting McCain is an idiot, but….
Harry-
are you saying George is an idiot??
I think that is v. disrespectful to true idiots.
Like Alan jones for example.
Just had a rethink.
Clearly GWB is the Biggest Idiot.
But we shoud have a special Runners-Up category :
all nominations welcome.
HarryH & Pancho & Diogenes
#322
I have not mentioned McCain i’m talking of Obama taking some risk , and ome of this risk is caused in part by Bush’s formal rejection of Kyoto ratifiaction in 2001
What Kyoto ACTUALLY does is take the control of emssions and Oil profits out of Politicans hands and big Oils hands and put into the hands of 400 of the top CC scientists in the world They produce the projections and the requird targets The politcans do not have much excuses to avoid those rquired targets , politcands hate that, so does big Oil , thats why Kyoto is a bad word in the US
IF you allow these politcans including Obama and India and China and the G8 to sneak away and do a ‘deal’ first , outside of Kyoto’s mark 11 protocols and the 400 top CC scientists projected targets required , then goodbye serious CC Unfortunately for Obama politically , he is left with the baby for Bush the some politcal risk , but he has a choice right now before the convention And as for those US Senators , the panch , they will vote on Bills that keep their seats and Big Oil & energy are like the a mafia offer , more powerful than a nuanced POTUS
And Jen , its not that uopoia at all , world poitcs is based on military power , greed and economiscs selfishness , and Kyoto happens to make them all transparent because of the 400 CC sciientisrts , thats why every other ‘world’ initative has failed and why Kyoto is an exception provided all countries are kept inside that kyoto ring without ’side G8 plus deals Has this site gone consevative tonite
Ron
I assure you my #322 was not directed at you.
I have discovered this site is more enjoyable for me by completely ignoring your posts. If others enjoy them and engage you i am most happy for all involved.
But me?…no thanks.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55274
Latest FL poll on electoral-vote.com: McCain 45%, Obama 45%.
“history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes”.. Mark Twain
Abe Lincoln (IMO the greatest POTUS) was very “inexperienced” when he ran for office..only one term on the HoR.
He was defeated for reelection because of his opposition to the hideously immoral American Mexican War of the 1840’s. (although he supported supply for the war) .
He came from Illinois, although born elsewhere.
He was labelled a “Black” republican because of his support for negroes.
He didn’t do too well in the South.. his name wasn’t even on the ballot in most Southern states.
his CV certainly “rhymes”with Obama’s.
Disclaimer: Folk who smoke from a corncob pipe and enjoy watching professional wrestling may find the following Op-Ed piece offensive.
“Charlie Black (McBush’s Brain) crassly argued in Fortune that a terrorist attack would “be a big advantage” for John McCain. And what’s scary is, Black is the smartest adviser McCain’s got.
It’s hard to believe that if Americans get attacked after all these years of getting strip-searched at the airport, they’re going to be filled with confidence at the performance of the Republicans on national security. And at least Obama wants to catch Osama and doesn’t think he’s getting his directions on war from “a higher Father.””
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/opinion/25dowd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
According to Plouffe, Obama’s strategy at this stage is to hold all Kerry states, then make playes for Alaska, Nevada, Montana, North Dakota, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Mexico. This lot totals 199 evs on top of Kerry’s 252.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/25/plouffe-obama-enormously_n_109248.html
Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin were Kerry states
Timbo – Indeed, sorry. Was just cut and pasting. Will need to do some more sums. Suffice it to say, even part of that list on top of the expected is a good victory though.
Plouffe also has documentary evidence of John McCain signing on to campaign finance limits for the primaries: http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/d414fe069de3f30b31_8im6i2j1v.pdf.
Camp McCain will probably corncob pipe down about funding now.
Your right though, who would have thought the Dems would even be considering Alaska, Montana, North Dakota and Indiana in their calculations
Zimmergate?
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1670
lol
326 HarryH Couldn’t agree more.
327 Enemy Combatant That been there for a few days now. This ones more interesting. Obama leads in South Florida…
http://www.miamiherald.com/political-currents/story/580781.html
Hello Catrina.
codger.
nice guy, huh?
Plouffe: We will play ‘offense’.
Plouffe, briefing reporters here today on the status of the campaign, shed light on Obama’s aggressive, nation-wide plan of attack into not just battlegrounds but also reliably “red” states. The first strategic goal, he said, was to hold onto the states — and the 252 electoral votes — that John Kerry won in 2004. But he also made clear they will play to win in states they deem “tossups,” including some that will surely raise eyebrows — Georgia, Alaska, Montana, Indiana, and North Dakoka.
more….
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/plouffe_we_will.html
Chris B at 338
Jen at 339
I got the nose peg – thanks!
Finns, Grinch, Eddy – this one’s for you.
Might get some new material to use against Lunatic Lefties.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13421
Hey Catrina-
good to see you back.
It seems this Obama dude has some character after all.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23924890-663,00.html
Hi Growler-
and Mandela is finally speaking out, unlike Mbeki who has been utterly pathetic. I hope the UN acts soon.
330 Pancho
There’s no FL, VA or NC on that list. The list has some issues.
GG
#345
Obama’s words on Zimbabwe are cheap words , no promise of any action , no oil there ditto no promised action on Darfur , Rwanda etc Just butterfly fodder for the faithful
Ron,
What you say may turn out to be correct. However, at this stage I’ll give him credit for raising the issue in the way he has. I believe Bush is also working in the background, so hopefully there will be a united approach to addressing Zimbabwe in the very near future.
GG
Over 50 World leaders have condemned Mugage before Obama Obama’s words are no different to those & contain NO measures Mccain’s do
McCain “I believe the international community must act to impose sanctions against Mugabe and his cronies and thereby hasten the end of that regime. We should consider expelling Mugabe’s diplomats from Washington and explore options with our friends in Africa and beyond, including suspending Zimbabwe’s participation in regional organizations as long a Mugabe clings to power. The results of the March 29 election must form the basis of a post-Mugabe resolution in Zimbabwe.”
Ron,
I applaud McCain as well. To me this matter should transcend partisan politics. I only hope the appropriate powers are getting ready to act decisively.
Ron
What do you actually want Obama/Bush/Rudd/Brown to do about Zimbabwe?
btw Ron -
Obama is still a candidate, not a world leader. Yet.
Big move for Wes Clark for VP on Intrade today.
GG
I thnk partisan politcs is the problem with Zimbabe & I thnk this is a good wxample Obama promises nothing upon which he later can be judged (so no help to Zimbabe) mcCain promises a theoretical sound solution (where there is a benchmark) BUT McCain’s theoretical solution will not rid Zimbabe of Mugabe i think anyway If there was big oil there and the US relied on it , then i think Mugage might be more worried Self interest and dometic home votes seem the importance I tink Dafur is another example , barbarian cynic am I
Ron,
Last night on SBS news an MDC spokesperson said that the words of Nelson Mandela and Barack Obama condemning Mugabe will have a big impact on the other African leaders, leading to Mugabe increased isolation and opportunity for change.
GG & Jen
I agree this issue is above partisan politics.
Cat at 342,
Perhaps madame would find our new season’s “History Changing” range to her liking?
http://texyt.com/files/Image/cleopatra_nose_clip_pack.jpg
{In his Pensées, philosopher Blaise Pascal contends that Cleopatra’s classically beautiful profile changed world history: “Cleopatra’s nose, had it been shorter, the whole face of the world would have been changed.”}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_VII
(glad you’re back, pal)
————–
Yep, Jen at 346, “I hope the UN acts soon”, and Growls at 345, “It seems this Obama dude has some character after all”; let’s hope so, and it does.
But our buddy at 348, Doubting Ronaldo, contends that it’s:
“Just butterfly fodder for the faithful”,
and that by inference, the future POTUS wouldn’t stick his nectar out for anyone.
*big dwalfy sigh*
OK. 4am in the morning will be interesting again. cant wait.
btw jen, this link of yours
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13421
has been attacked.
I also encourage everyone to check out the humourous ‘conservative t-shirts’ linked via an ad on the webpage Finns has recommended above.
Crikey (Subs required) is predicted the Nowhere Man is going somewhere at long last. I will miss his tear jerkers. bring back the Noticker Man.
Finns@358-
not sure what you mean -”it’s been attacked”….
Jen at 361
Seems that the page has some javascript that is attempting to auto install an application into you system (which could be nasty).
Catrina -
I have absolutely no idea what that means! . Is there anything I should do ????
Jen at 363
OK – the page you referenced contains some javascript that is attempting to some unhealthy things to you computer. Your probably not seeing any issued because of the security setting on you browser. You should be able to go into the preferences on your browser and increase the security settings. If your running Firefox the default settings will automatically detect this. If your using Internet Explorer there should be something in the preferences that let you increase the security level.
What browser are you using?
Internet explorer
OMG this sounds so scary….will it hurt?
Jen at 365
Maybe!
I need to reboot into Windows and check where things are.
Give me a moment and I’ll be back with instructions.
Jen,
Sometimes being good isn’t worth the bother. You put up a post that provides a robust but balanced critique of Huffington’s book and your system chucks a wobbly.
I think you need to assemble all your home appliances and weed out the bolshie ones.
It’s a Big Club and you ain’t in it: Part 1
Wed June 25:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/bensargent;_ylt=Ag2Ei1xXxsTydHBEGHg4jAhN_b4F
Thurs Jan 26: http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tonyauth;_ylt=Aka.lfmHZzm3xmCyHT31N.gV2r8F
Thurs June 26:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/billday;_ylt=Amsaa0._PrUu2H3bINVltnTXj5Z4
Et voila, mesdames et monsieurs: Part 2.
Court Spares Exxon $2 Billion In Damages From Valdez Spill
Worst Oil Spill in American History
http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch8en/appl8en/img/exxonspill.gif
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/March-April-08/On-this-Day–Exxon-Valdez-Captain-Acquitted-After-Oil-Spill-/news/0/image/Main-N-2008-3-21-ExxonValdez-AP890409065.jpg
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/25/court-spares-exxon-2-bill_n_109140.html
(actually, can’t best the photo on HuffPo homepage)
Jen
I just checked the site with Internet Explorer and it does not raise any issues even with the most severe security settings. Basically the site has a massive about of javascript running in the background but on the stuff I could see it was relatively harmless stuff (although I did not see all of it – some imported packages I didn’t look at). Basically it has been reported as a suspect site and if you running a browser like Firefox then you’ll get a warning and page will be disabled. So your choice is – (a) live with Internet Explorer of (b) upgrade to Firefox.
You’re right Grinch. There I was trying to give you boys some support to continue to slam me, and look what happens!
My computer seems to be OK but I’m worried that if anyone else tries to follow the link they might get attacked too.
(Mind you being attacked is pretty much par for the course here.)
Of course the other way of looking at this is that article was such a ridiculous slur against left leaning people that the whole system just about fried in response to such nonsense.
Catrina
WTF is javascript??
(and thanks).
Jen, Catrina was right. it might not hurt on the surface. but you never know. I posted few days ago about the new version of Firefox.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
Everyone should support Firefox. It’s free, safer than IE and effing good.
#370 – [Of course the other way of looking at this is that article was such a ridiculous slur against left leaning people that the whole system just about fried in response to such nonsense.]
Jen, The honeymoon is truly over. Now the Left is under the bus and discovered that they have been betrayed by Obama.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11349.html
But we have told you that he is not Da Man for you lot.
i have lost count on how many have been thrown under the bus. Now let see, pastor, priest, church, grandma, granduncle, Hamas, Palestinians, Iran, NAFTA, Public Funding, New politics, The Whitey, no flag pin, change you can believe in, the great seal, Osama Was Laden, and no race card (‘He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?’). Michelle is hanging on by the skin of her white teeth. And what about Scarlett Johansson, is she on or off the bus?
Catrina,
To prove a woman’s work is never done, Possum is calling for mental assistance.
http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/request-for-mental-assistance-on-us-election-intrade-stuff/#comments
Finns,
Scarlett Johannsen and Obama are pen pals.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/06/barack_obama_denies_scarlett_r.html
GG, Scarlett Johannsen and Obama are pen pals. – only?
309 Dyno. After the election is when he’ll make the tough decissions not before. You don’t want the flat earthers and rednecks to have any leverage.
No Finns –
clearly they are boffing the living daylights out of each other and Obama is a two-timing adulterous bastard.
Or else they exchanged emails.
Wed June 25:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/mattbors;_ylt=ApK.DT7q.KItMyUvhTnM4f8l6ysC
Wed June25:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/mikeluckovich;_ylt=AkSUfhI28×9lcK45NaIgr2tR_b4F
Thurs June 26:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tomtoles;_ylt=AhzZkhZ02QCLg1OeNGPZw85T_b4F
Finns,
It’s in one of those glossy magazines, so it has to be true.
322 HarryH Thats brilliant Harry. I can’t use a computer either. If you missed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNehRSWmvJM&NR=1
Catrina is that you further up under another name? Glad to have you back your going caused a real storm.
Jen methinks the javascripts have gotten into you. btw: the javascript was originated in indonesia in the sixties. it’s derivative of the Indonesian traditional jamu herbal medicine.
i believe Obama’s stepfather Lolo loved it, as many Indonesians. he must have given some to Obama, because he was very skinny. I believe along side the clove Kretek cigarette, tripe soto soup, Jamu is also a fav of Emperor Obama.
Finns –
I have googled javascript and looked at various sites and still have NFI what it is!
I can however cook.
Two Big Obamacons?
What is an “Obamacon?” The phrase surfaced in January to describe British Conservatives entranced by Barack Obama. On March 13, the American Spectator broadened the term to cover all “conservative supporters” of the Democratic presidential candidate. Their ranks, though growing, feature few famous people. But looming on the horizon are two big potential Obamacons: Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel.
lots more…..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/two_big_obamacons_1.html
Moveon insulting US Servicemen and women on Obama’s behalf?
http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Insulting+our+troops:+Moveon.org+strikes+again&articleId=c5b9f3ea-1e15-44cc-bab9-0bcde5376f2c&source=cmailer
FINNS
#353
you were rather generos with the lisst the bus has run over , i’ve got over 50 and only 1/4 declared here Of course the goldengate bus went the hole way , it ran over a few states Of course there’s all those ‘left’ editorial boards who were told in person by da man he will stick by publicly funded campaigns , so they didn’t get fully run over , only their naevity
jen – [I can however cook] – we should exchange recipes
More Phony Myths.
Karl Rove was impressed with Barack Obama when he first met him. But now he sees him as a “coolly arrogant” elitist.
This was Rove’s take on Obama to Republicans at the Capitol Hill Club Monday, according to Christianne Klein of ABC News:
“Even if you never met him, you know this guy. He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.”
Actually, that sounds more like W.
more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/opinion/25dowd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Ronnie, yes, i was rather generous with da buses. i was just finishing cooking my indonesian rendang, the genuine one from Padang, West Sumatra, Indonesia. The real recipe involves some ganja.
I’m good at toast.
u r toast
John McCain has been having trouble generating the kind of popularity among Republicans typically enjoyed by Republican presidential candidates! And he’s also been pushing “comprehensive” reform of late, potentially winning Latino support but further jeopardizing his GOP support. Kausfiles notes that there are more Republicans than Latinos. If McCain win’s an extra 10% of Latino voters but loses an extra 10% of Republican voters, he loses, right?
lots more….
http://www.slate.com/id/2194221/#cannondown
“gnja”
is that an Indionesian butterfly
House Republicans Who Are Proven Survivors Can’t Count On Immunity This Year.
On top of the obvious troubles — such as a serious fundraising disadvantage for the National Republican Congressional Committee and the unprecedented number of voters who say they want Democrats in charge of Congress — they also face new and unforeseen dangers.
In an environment as ugly as this one, a well-prepared incumbent can still lose.
Lots more….
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/ol_20080625_9349.php
Ronnie, too much of that gnja will turn u into a butterfly
Ron,
This article sums up Obama’s position on electoral funding.
“Reformer, hopemonger — and politician. Barack Obama had a choice between keeping his word on public financing or reaping a windfall of hundreds of millions of dollars from unrestrained fund-raising, and in true American fashion, he chose the money. The decision is widely viewed as pragmatic — after all, he’s trying to win an election here, not run an exhibition on consistency. But for those dazzled by promises of reform, Obama’s reversal has the scales falling from their eyes — a recognition that he is, beneath all the hype, a politician who acts in his best interests.”
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/06/obamas_halo_seriously_flickering.html
This wouldn’t be an article written by someone trying to talk Obama speding his millions on TV advertising would it?
Why TV Ads Are a Waste of Money.
With his decision to forgo public funding, Barack Obama can raise as much as he wants, giving him a huge financial advantage in the fall campaign. If he spends that cash on organization, registration, and get-out-the-vote efforts, he will absolutely get his money’s worth. But if he spends a major portion of it on television advertising, he will only be doing John McCain a favor.
That’s because the era of TV advertising in presidential general elections is over.
Jen,
Maybe some of your homemade gnja toast with peanut butterfly made your computer go all strange.
Chris B at 381:
Nope – no me!
308 newy stats I thought this was you. New person, old subject, dear to your heart.
Jen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javascript
All clear now – right?
“Ronnie, too much of that gnja will turn u into a butterfly’
well then I’ll take them off the Coles trolly list It was probably only availabl at the one Coles store anyway , at the bae of the Ivorty towers
“Ronnie, too much of that gnja will turn u into a butterfly”
will take it off my barter list , probably was only available at coles , probably just that one premium priced Coles store at the base of the Ivorty Towers
This is trouble and getting serious for Da Man. The “anti corporate” candidate, no not Obama but Ralph Nadar, is having a go at him:
[Independent presidential hopeful Ralph Nader is pressing the case that presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama is another corporate candidate who won't really change Washington.
"There's only one thing different about Barack Obama when it comes to being a Democratic presidential candidate. He's half African-American," Nader said in what the Denver newspaper described as a wide-ranging interview. "Whether that will make any difference, I don't know. I haven't heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What's keeping him from doing that? Is it because he wants to talk white?"
Nader added: "I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be [doing] is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas. . . . Haven’t heard a thing.
“He wants to show that he is not . . . another politically threatening African-American politician,” Nader said. “He wants to appeal to white guilt. You appeal to white guilt not by coming on as, ‘black is beautiful, black is powerful.’ Basically he’s coming on as someone who is not going to threaten the white power structure, whether it’s corporate or whether it’s simply oligarchic. And they love it. Whites just eat it up.”]
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/26/naders_obama_remarks_draw_fire/
the lefts, progressives, greens must be spewing.
Finns, I dont think the lefts, progressives or greens have wanted to do anything with Nader since 2004 apart from beat him to death.
This is not good, an open warfare.
http://www.votenader.org/media/2008/06/25/Obama/
Or 2000 even… doh
“the lefts, progressives, greens must be spewing.”
daisys and butterflys take longer to realise , they are still in the converted daze state & still chirping with flapping wings a plenty and it may take years for the virtual reality to close As Nader says , just another politican and as Nader says wants to keep whites happy so may never want to upset the whites which avoids hard decisions
Poss, i thought the lefts, progressives, greens want to smash the corporate power structure. tell me i am wrong here.
After eight years of Bush, I’d say that “the lefts, progressives, greens” would be spewing at Nader for the past instead of any criticisms he wants to throw at Obama now.
Only when they think their candidate is going to lose Finns :mrgreens:
Finns-
i don’t think they are mutally exclusive. Nader and the corporate structures are both fair game.
Catrina @401 -
as mud.
FINNS
#406
“Nader: One, why don’t you support single-payer national health insurance, which is supported by a majority of doctors and the American people?
When i startted pushing universal Healthcare 2 months ago and criticising Obama for abandoning such a policy in favor of a ‘howard’ free market one , i was told by th ‘experts’ here it was a non issue Glad mr nader does not think so
#413 – Ronnie, touche, health and kyoto
GG
Answring your valid point The regressives will sell out any principle to win The bus has run over the Telco surveelance Bill twice !
Example one , FINNS #373 “But with his (Obama’s) support of a government surveillance bill (just drafted in june) that offers retroactive immunity to telecommmunications companies — a bill that he vowed LAST YEAR to filibuster — the progressive netroots) honeymoon has ended.”
But 2nd bus run over incident hapened , the bus has run over 2 Dems as well as the ‘pregressives netroots , see back in February tha man wanted progressive votes at that time in the senate was a Bill (now varied) that did not allow all this retro Bushs Teleco guys off the hook it was sponsored bye Obama’s Dems Dodd and Feingold and da man said in feb quote for your forensic records: “I am proud to stand with Senator Dodd, Senator Feingold and a grassroots movement of Americans who are refusing to let President Bush put protections for special interests ahead of our security and our liberty.” Now Obama’s supporting a bill to protect these ‘crooks’ , the opposite So Dodd & Feingold just went under the bus FINNS did you gave the 2 bus run over casualities ?
Ronnie, [So Dodd & Feingold just went under the bus ] noted
The way the left feel about Nader:
The way the greater populace feels about him:
The megalomaniac arsehole you are talking about so badly wants attention that he claimed Bush and Gore were tweedledum and dumber, and gave us all we have experienced over the last eight years. And hasn’t even had the guts to admit it. He has constantly claimed that Bush stole the election so it wasn’t his fault. So I’m pretty sure that most of the progressive community doesn’t care one bit what Nader is doing to keep his 15 minutes of infamy on a loop.
Quotes from http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/pollitt
“It reminds me of that old saying,” said communications director Robert Gibbs, “which I’ll paraphrase: ‘Better to be thought not-so-smart than to open your mouth and remove all doubt,’ which is apparently what Ralph Nader did in Denver yesterday or the day before. Obviously Ralph Nader hasn’t spent a lot of time looking at the entire career of Barack Obama, somebody who turned down high-paying Wall Street jobs and Supreme Court clerkships to come back and organize on the south side of Chicago, in fact, taking on asbestos in public housing projects. He’s worked tirelessly in the United States Senate to make sure that our kids don’t chew on toys that are imported from China that are filled with lead and that we begin to pass reasonable, but strong rules ensuring that there isn’t any more lead paint in homes that children can chew on. We’ve talked throughout this campaign about making sure that our middle-class is protected. So, I think Ralph Nader is — besides those comments being reprehensible and basically delusional, I don’t think he’s spent a lot of time looking at the record of Barack Obama.”
Pancho, i notice you have missed your belinda neal’s anger management session again. it’s no good for your health.
Although of course I realise that you are a Naderite of convenience, Finns, unfortunately the messages he is wishing to push are laughed at by most of society, and rejected by the left (in presidential forums at least) because he has absolutely no credibility in this arena. 0.36% of the vote makes for a pretty small army, even if it is “open warfare”?
Pancho – I give you a clean bill of emotional health and you get extra points for not taking the bait.
Amnd indeed what Ralph Nader says is as irrelevant as the mn himself.
btw – did you know Obama exchanged emails with Scarlett Johannsen and so they must be having an affair???
Nader supports Healthcare & Kyoto Obama does not support either Nader knows this , thats why he said it
405 Possum Comitatus If we have the massive win I am expecting. Will that make him a hero for helping wipe out the Repugs?
Jen – ha! I bet Michelle would have something to say about that – she probably ain’t a woman to cross. Also Obama patently has better taste in women than one who (in spite of amazing pretensions) could not sing to save her life.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4paPtRuIw2Y
She has a record now as well? Of course ‘music has always been her first love’ though. And she might go and do some theatre now…
Although I guess she is using her I’ll gotten powers for good.
Because without Bush winning there ia noway the Repugs would be destroyed as they are about to be. Thanks George.
It’s like all the South American countries would not have turned various shades of red while George was busy in Iraq. Too busy to interfere down south.
426 Chris B meant to be “is no way”
So the South Americans should be thankful for Iraq. Its possible it save thousands of lives from the death squads.
The only country in South America that is not a shade of red is Columbia. The nastiest of them all.
Pancho,
Given the caustic reaction, Nader’s criticisms are hitting their mark. If he keeps on exposing Obama’s phony change mantra, he hopes to pick up votes from the disillusioned and disappointed when they realise that Obi’s just another Democrat politician.
425 Pancho It was Ralph Nader who said if the Democrats can’t win this one in a huge landslide they don’t deserve to win it.
GG – There are so many reasons why Nader will get even less than 0.36% of the vote this time. A few off the top of my head:
1. In a divided electorate third players generally get shut out. For all we like to discuss closeness of policy and pretend there is not much difference here, the election will be won on a few big ticket items which will not play out with great nuance: Obama anti-war, McCain pro; Obama pro-healthcare, McCain anti etc. For this reason Nader can’t pretend to be the real alternative.
2. Those who tended to vote for Nader – the young and elitists no less! – are now firmly in the Obama camp.
3. By running again after such a disasterous previous attempt, and on no real platform other than ego, Nader is a laughing stock.
Two further points. One, Nader has had no publicity until he came out with his ‘Obama pretending to be white’ line. This is a shallow stunt. Two, had Nader not run in 2000, we’d be far further down the road towards Kyoto and the US wouldn’t be in various messes created over the last terms. So him raising these issues as his reason for running is problematic.
And a little more from the Nation in an open letter to Ralph:
“Look around: no one, including former strong supporters, called on you to run this year. Doesn’t that deafening silence say something?”
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=289938
Once a story’s told
It can’t help but grow old
Roses do
Obama too
So cast your reasons to the wind
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=O3_AetXXx3U
Pancho at 433
Spot on!
Talking heads on both the Democrats and Republican sides are calling this nothing more than a a publicity stunt from someone who is getting no oxygen and an overall negative for the Nader campaign. I.e. a momentary amusement in the real campaign between Obama and McCain.
Pancho,
Latest polls say you are wrong:
“In a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll released this week, Nader had 4 percent in a four-man race, just ahead of Libertarian Bob Barr, but far behind Obama and Republican John McCain. Nader received nearly 3 percent of the vote as the Green Party candidate in 2000, the race in which many Democrats blame him for Al Gore’s narrow loss. Nader didn’t reach 0.5 percent in 2004, when he also ran as an Independent.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/26/naders_obama_remarks_draw_fire/
GG at 436
Do you have any numbers on Nadar’s polling results this far out last time around? It would be interesting to compare.
jen. is Nader’s Green Party the same your Green Party. Or your Green is slightly more brown and a pale imitation.
GG – Nader was polling up to 7% in 2004: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/mar/17/uselections2004.usa2
You may be right (although I don’t think you think you will be). But the smart money is on Nader to be little more than a blip on the radar this year. The Republicans have much more to fear from Barr, because his votes will be concentrated in places like Georgia.
According to RCP here, Naders numbers shrunk almost by the poll until election day in 2004: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry.html
439 Pancho That’s not likely this time around. Thank heavens.
Pancho,
Is “smart money” a substitute for imho or just wishful thinking by political insiders “whistling” in the dark.
Yeah, Pancho 440, the numbers of Nader’s Raiders have dropped off faster than a caravan of refugee scabies in a sulphur storm.
Finns- not everone that belongs to the same party loves each other.
Look at Meg Lees and the rest of the Democrats (Aus. version).
A federal commission’s independent investigation of the books found that they contained passages espousing religious hatred and giving permission to kill unbelievers, passages critics say are in violation of an agreement the Saudi government made with the United States in 2006 to clean up its textbooks.
“The United States government owes it to those who are concerned and to the parents and students at the ISA [Islamic Saudi Academy] to thoroughly examine this matter and find out the truth about the content of the textbooks in question,” Wolf’s letter read. “Your personal attention is appreciated. Please keep me informed of developments.”
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=hsnews-000002906089
I wonder whether they will pressure them to let women learn to drive? I also wonder whether they will pressure them to introduce democracy as well?
Obama’s Campaign Manager: It’s Good To Have $300 Million.
David Plouffe looks ready to roll. At a Washington, D.C., press conference, Barack Obama’s campaign manager surveyed the general election political landscape for several dozen reporters, and he spoke confidently, like a man who will have the money to do all that he believes is necessary and optional. Which he is, because he can expect to have $200 to $300 million to deploy–now that Obama has decided to sidestep the public financing system (which awards $85 million to party nominees) and raise much more from individual donors.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/davidcorn/2008/06/obamas-campaign-manager-its-go.html
The Repugs who used to have the most money every election are wining and whinging because someone else has all the money this time.
Senator Russ Feingold smacks down his own craven Party over the capitulation on FISA. Obama sucks on this issue along with the other Dems. One can only wait until January 2009 to see the hoped for changes start to slowly occur.
And occur they will…because this little tool we are all using now (internet) is going to demand things change. Organisation is the key to change. The power of the netroots is just beginning.
It will be interesting to see how this affects fundraising from those 2 million odd online contributors. I would say Obama will get a leave pass until November and then the screws will be turned on him.
The 3 leaders…Reid, Pelosi and Hoyer are gonna have the blowtorch applied to their feet next year.
At the end of this interview Feingold was being kind in not saying his Party was guilty of all 3 points the interviewer mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX20bsBpTEI
This is an interesting point from the same article.
When I asked Plouffe about possible racial basis among voters, he said that based on the campaign’s own research, “we certainly don’t believe it will be a major impact….It’s not a barrier for the people who will be deciding this election.” In other words, voters who won’t vote for Obama because he is biracial are the same voters who wouldn’t vote for any Democratic nominee.
447 HarryH They do have to tread carefully for two more years. The last third of the senate vote takes place. The last of the Bush post 911 senate seats. Should be enough seats to prevent a filibuster for a long time.
So do the popular things for two years, then go for the jugular.
The Repugs will never be able to turn back the clock.
GG
Don’t forget Andy Tanenbaum reply about Nader.
“I think he will max out at 0.5% this time. He barely got 1% last time and Democrats understand they could actually win this time if they don’t do something stupid. ”
I think Barr will cost more Repug votes than Nader will cost Dem votes.
Those high Nader figures are classic Bradley effect votes. They won’t translate into real votes on V-day.
Barr will triple Nader votes.
I’ll bet anyone on that.
Shooting low there Harry. Triple 1/4 is still less than 1%. Barr could get 3-4% if he mines the right areas.
447
HarryH Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Senator Russ Feingold smacks down his own craven Party over the capitulation on FISA. Obama sucks on this issue along with the other Dems. One can only wait until January 2009 to see the hoped for changes start to slowly occur.
“to see the hoped for changes start to slowly occur.” yep change yes we can ,
the changes whatever they are , are now HOPED for
Parody of Moveon ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecX-jQL19A
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bob Barr managed to get above 5% come election day and was seen to be polling above 10% in some polls. He’s probably the only real small-government conservative running this year.
452
Diogenes Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
“GG
Don’t forget Andy Tanenbaum reply about Nader.”
Was that before Obama sold out al the ‘left’ Newspapers editorial boards on his previous support for public funding of campagns and previous suppport on the Telco FIS Bill Y ou realise obama had made ‘presentations to actaula Newspaper Boards on these and they are quoting back Obama now
How quickly the ‘conservative Democratic’ supporters here have become idealists, shedding their acceptance of a stances like the gas tax holiday to demand absolute purity of the flagbearer now their candidate has lost!
Ron @459 – you should take Harry H up on his offer of a bet then.
he would not pay up Thats why i play poker with real money
Ron
I share your disappointment about Obi’s move away from the liberal policies to the centre which McBush has conveniently vacated for him. He is a clever politician. It’s Rudd all over again. I’m not surprised though. You lot were right all along. I’m glad I was one of the cynical moderates.
I think HarryH is right about Nadman and Barr. Nads ain’t a problem for Obi.
Also you’ve brought out some murali balls again I’ve been the idealist here , I’ve always pushed for Kyoto , universal healthcare , & public funding of campaigns & I support the Feingold Telco FIS feb bill Obama does not support any of those 4 and yous repregressives have sold out all 4 as well The site reords proove this gas holiday geez big deal in comparison , the workers get a benefit cann’t argue too hard on that with that even though a slly McCain stunt hillary copied Just what do you guys stand for
Unlike yous repregessives without firmm believer ‘left’ principles , IF hillary had not supported Kyoto , universal healthcare or public funding of political campaigns , I’d hav not suported her ALSO , if shs have latar ditched them like the o man has done , then i would have ditched her I support labor policys , if the pollie does not , then dustbin for him Victory no good unless there are real marbles in the kitty to implermant
Ron, as I recall it was Rev Wright who caused you shift, not policy.
I know the discussion has been had before, but I reiterate – Hillary never had a policy to ratify Kyoto (an ambiguous line in an interview does not count as policy). In fact her environmental policies make no mention of international efforts towards climate change agreements, and her one act on energy/the environment in the primaries was for a gas tax holiday. She loses on that front.
Diogenes,
That’s three time you’ve said that. Are you trying to convince yourself that it might be true?
What if 2008 is more like 2000 than 2004?
With Obama disappointing his left wing supporters with his flexible approach to issues, then Nader is likely to be the beneficiary of the disillusioned idealists who thought Obama was really in to change you can believe in.
Also, this poll was taken well before the press conference and is quite remarkable given Nader has had little prior publicity.
Spin by political insiders who have a vested interest in damning Nader, does not qualify as reasoned political comment. You guys lap it up, if it is what you want to hear.
If you guys are saying, wait till later in the campaign for more solid figures, can you stop the gleeful Morris Dancing whenever new polls appear and show Obama in front at this point in the cycle.
Diogenoski
#462
what a terrible thing to says in jest re the Ruddy mans Hell i could write a blig post on that as the Rudd sttood for all labor principles 7 policys , bar 1 9that he snuck aroundds witha clecer add on) , so no comparisons plesse Kevin07 ran a ‘consevative’ image campaign , right from the tie around his backs , the armarni cloths and the prety measured quiet unscary words he was me too on economics , loved the Costeloos monetry policy and saids so like 15 of GDP (no risk seeing the forwards were 1.55 anyway and thats responsibl0 but what else , matchd 90% of tax cuts , had to , otherwise loses election BUIT what did he not do ? the rudd kept the rich tax cuts , put them into educatiins , abolish w/c , keeps uni health free of howards snipets , brings computs & interneets to all schols , changes private health subsidy from 50k to100k for net funds use , puls out of iraq , capital works priograms , blah blah blah , The rudd had the unthretening conservative perctions campagns but in the brief case everytim he spoke he spoke labor policys and promises anAPOLOGY and HE SIGNS KYOTO
no more murali balls ,hillary has a sign kyoto mark 11 policy and all signed for Senate by 2010 , have quoted her in 2008 before , obama doesnot support Kyoto at all , no Pastor didn’t change the game pure coincidence of timing, saw some stiuff that did not add up & researched & it did not , hillary was the Kyoto kid, obama is the anti Kyoto guy
457 Greeensborough Growler A real moveon ad or if the make a parrody its a parody of the parody.
https://pol.moveon.org/baird/
GG
I honestly think Nader wont get more than 1% of the total vote. He’ll be lucky to get on the ballot paper in many states. And my political sympathies are definitely with Nader’s policies.
Ron
Lots of Rudds “achievements” are more symbolism than real. When he wimped out and gave 90% of the Rodents tax cuts, he became Howard-lite.
To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, when Howard is asked what his greatest was he will answer “Kevin Rudd”.
Chris B,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVThqpkSRcM
Ron
“gnja”
is that an Indionesian butterflybong or straw by score…?
…a ‘thinksin’ or ‘thinkskin’ secret agent…shshshshh…careful he might hear youse
Catrina, b’fly pooincoming….& welcome back “sweetie”…
Get Ready for the Persuasion Army.
Or at least grow accustomed to the use of the term. Senator Barack Obama’s campaign manager used that term or similar phraseology several times today as he outlined for journalists a bit of the campaign’s general election strategy.
Using a Power Point presentation with maps of the states that seem strong for Mr. Obama, strong for his opponent Senator John McCain or somewhere in between, David Plouffe, the Obama campaign manager, enthused about the campaign’s volunteer and staff operations that could make the Democratic presidential candidate competitive in more states this time around than Democratic contenders have been in the past.
more…..
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/get-ready-for-the-persuasion-army/
Diogenoski
suggest you do some tax research The money went to the people , except the 3.3 or so billion Rudd took OUT of howards policy that howard earmarked for the rich Nothing wrong with giving the people there tax monies back at all , do you oppose that ? check the forward estimates , rudd was ALWAYS , I repeat ALWAYS was going to give massive tax cuts , thats Labor policy ! What he did not do is give the rich tax cuts rudd ended up promising about 6 billion more than he intended , that being for intrastucutre no addresssed What part of non symbolissm do you not understand re W/Choice , universal health , dental , private reduc healthcare subsidy , renewable energy programs , captial works for sshools , even kyoto now we are locked into post 2012 etc
Who is Barack Obama?
With Karl Rove’s latest attempt to define Sen. Barack Obama — this time as an arrogant country club elitist — it’s clear Republicans haven’t yet settled on who the man is they are facing in the presidential election.
Sometimes he’s part of the country club set, other times he’s an outsider with a strange name raised by a hippie mother.
Sometimes he’s a Christian with a controversial pastor, other times he’s a secretive Muslim.
more…..
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider/
Is he a black activist who hates whitey or an Ivy League lawyer who doesn’t understand Joe Sixpack?
Or is he someone who is naive or someone who is a Washington insider?
He can’t be all of them at once. Now it is too late to define him as Obama, backed by tons of money, will be defining himself very soon.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
FINNS
SUMMARY OF OBAMA’s own KYOTO policy in writing
“Re-Engage with the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC): The UNFCCC process is the main international forum dedicated to addressing the climate change problem and an Obama administration will work constructively within it.”
page4 /http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/EnvironmentFactSheet.pdf
RON: to do WHAT ?? IF Obama was to work within Kyoto’s UNFCCC on a post Kyoto mark 11 , the Obama policy would say so wouldn’t it EVERY other policy he listes is detailed except this one The next section is a NON KYOTO/non UNFCC new body
“Create New Forum of Largest Greenhouse Gas Emitters
“Barack Obama will create a Global Energy Forum – based on the G8+5, which would focus exclusively on global energy and environmental issues. This Global Energy Forum will complement – and ultimately merge with – the much larger negotiation process underway at the UN to develop a post-Kyoto framework.” page 4 http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/EnvironmentFactSheet.pdf
RON : “complement” ? what does that mean , ‘complement’ is not the same as being inside Kyoto /UNFCC which IS the one body actually developing a post 2012 Kyoto If you were actually going ‘to develop a post-Kyoto framework’ , you would do it under the Kyoto /UNFCCC itself in the first abov section Houdini words
Pancho #48 correctly said “in short – no I don’t believe that Obama will ratify Kyoto, but nor do I believe that he can honestly, or politically astutely promise to.” So no more of ths myth Obama supports Kyoto or will support its rastification Obama clearly does not However his non Kyoto support may get him to be POTUS , becorse the ‘right’ cannt attack him This may allow him to do “other things” , but Kyoto is under the bus & with it serious CC So FINNS , did records have this stuff
Thurs June 26:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/nonsequitur;_ylt=A0WTUcmBjGNIVtgAADoDwLAF
“Even if you never met him, you know this guy,” Rove said, per Christianne Klein. “He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.”
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55389
An abridged course in rube chain-jerking
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55395
“Centered on a cap and trade system for carbon emissions, stronger energy and auto efficiency standards and a significant increase in green research funding, Hillary’s plan will reduce America’s reliance on foreign oil and address the looming climate crisis.
Setting ambitious targets, the plan would reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80 percent from 1990 levels by 2050 to avoid the worst effects of global warming, and cut foreign oil imports by two-thirds from 2030 projected levels, more than 10 million barrels per day.”
http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/energy/
Not one mention of any international agreement in the document above Ron. While McCain’s policy does mention international agreements, there is nothing specific in his policy either. The US is weak in this area, but it is completely disingenuous to pretend that Obama is the worst candidate on this front. In spite of whatever ways you wish to contort yourself with directed analyses of what a single word may or may not mean, for better or for worse, Obama is the best candidate that the US has thrown up with regards to climate change.
Ron, I think you’re missing the point a little bit. The Kyoto Protocol is an update to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. For all intents and purposes they’re the same thing. If Obama says he’s going to re-engage with the UNFCCC that’s exactly what we need to be hearing from the US, particularly so that we can get them on board in Copenhagen next year so that we can push to bring all countries (Annex I, Annex II and Developing Countries) on board.
They’re never going to meet their Kyoto requirements… you can’t just magically wish away carbon dioxide, methane and your other significant GHG contributors. By re-engaging with the framework, it means he is committing to getting them in line with the overall UNFCCC requirements, even though they have already missed their Kyoto targets.
Obama’s got plenty of flaws that are worthwhile targetting. Ratification of a treaty that he has no power over is certainly not one of them.
AL
“Ratification of a treaty that he has no power over is certainly not one of them.”
His policy makes clear he does not support the ratification of Kyoto the Senate ratifys The POTUS has a view and influence , obama’s influence on kyoto will be zero , his own policy is clear enough he does not support the ratification
And thepanch , no red herring balls your guy using your own words will not support Kyoto ratifcation ( I agree with you)
Hi bludgers – Why the surprise lately about Obama’s positioning for the election? If he is to be elected, Barry must be a consummate politician. Have a look at Dukakis’ answer to the capital punishment trap question back when. What Dukakis said is the only humane, intelligent and sensible position to have, of course. But even if if that is what Obama believes himself, he cannot say so and remain a viable candidate. His answer was very politically effective, and has neutralised a dangerous US issue. The realpolitic of it all is well addressed here:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/25/1168683.aspx
For those of us who want him to beat McCain everything is going according to plan (although the others who don’t support Barry on PB seem a little uneasy at the moment, as he consolidates his lead. They don’t want Barry – must be the way he parts his hair – but they also can’t really openly support McCain because he’s an old dope – hmm … tough … I see testicular pain increasing from all that ‘fence-sitting’. Funny to watch though
)
I remember saying – as did other Obama supporters – back in December that change under Obama will be a matter of subtlety. There won’t be any radical policy pronouncements from Obama before or after the election.
But the whole tone of the US’s engagement with the world will change immediately he’s elected in November, even before he does anything specific.
It’s the sort of change the US voters want, say the polls, and now the general election polling is starting to suggest that voters are realising Barry will deliver that desired change – by definition. The tide is rushing out on the Repugs. Nothing will change this, and McCain will be swept aside on the tidal run.
Yes it’s early, but not too early to predict with confidence that, barring the large and unforeseen, McCain will be a big loser.
the Panch
HILLARYS POLICY
“RESTORING AMERICAN LEADERSHIP IN SOLVING INTERNATIONAL ENERGYAND CLIMATE CHALLENGES
Hillary knows that the U.S. has to lead the way in addressing climate change, but she also knows that this is a global problem that requires a global solution.
Leading the Development of a Post-Kyoto Treaty: The Kyoto treaty is set to expire in 2012, and Hillary would act quickly in 2009 to restore U.S. leadership in the global warming arena by playing an active role in developing the post-Kyoto treaty. As a guide to the treaty, Hillary would propose a science-based goal to limit global warming to levels needed to avoid the most catastrophic consequences of climate change. She would re-engage in negotiations, work to bring rapidly developing nations like China and India along, and convene high-level meetings every three months with the goal of getting a new deal in place BY THE END OF 2009.
Establishing an “E8” to Speed Global Action to Address Climate Change: Hillary
would invite the G8 nations and key developing countries to join the United States in establishing an “E8.” This group would be comprised of the world’s major carbon-emitting nations, and would hold an annual summit devoted to international ecological and resource
“BY THE END OF 2009″ and I have her on record this uyear saying tha tpost 2012 Kyoto deal would be put to the Senate in 2010 for ratification
FINNS this post on hillary & my #477 on Obama are their own policys
the Panch
no more murali’s on kyoto , try the Palestiniians where you may have som esolid gound on hillary , where i disagre with her lots
Pancho at 479: “Obama is the best candidate that the US has thrown up with regards to climate change.”
Yes indeed, Pancho, on an either/or basis The Kid has got it all over the McBush on this most crucial of issues.
Ronaldo, you can twist your perceptions into the most convoluted of intussuceptions but on Obi’s approach to global warming you’re spruiking rubbish old son.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55361
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55381
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55384
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55385
Here are the facts. Obama will not ratify Kyoto 1. He cannot. Clinton would not have ratified Kyoto 1. She could not.
Obama has pledged to engage the UNFCCC towards a post Kyoto agreement. Hillary would have done likewise.
You can parse all you want beyond this, but they remain the facts.
Who’s Hillary, and why is she here?
FINNS
read both written policys , its their own policys !
re re -read #477 where obama is NOT even promising anything for Kyoto
re read #484 where Hillary is defitively promising a Kyoto deal for post 2012 by 2009
Now these guys can blog as much as they like pretending the words ar not written or pretending the words say sometink they do not , but it does not change Hillarys & McCain’s policy words at all They’re in virtual reality with a rotten CC candidate to go along side another in McCain
Good question jv. It appears she remains a ghost benchmark of wonderment for the real candidate left in the race to live up to. Since her timely demise, those pining for the better days can think back to what Hillary might have done in any given circumstance in order to salve their egos.
Unfortunately all of this requires the suspension of disbelief, because, as we all know, Hillary couldn’t even beat a candidate who had not passed the Commander in Chief threshold, one who was offering ‘change you can xerox’ and who was out of touch with ‘hardworking Americans, white Americans’ because he didn’t embrace gas tax holidays.
And losing to such a klutz really says something about her political nous.
jaundiced view Says:#488
“Who’s Hillary, and why is she here?’
She Hillary (and Edwards) are in the room as a reminder of what true ‘left’ policy on Kyoto and CC is ,as McCain & Obama are neutral on CC , one heavy & one lite
So r/Ron … who is the candidate who should be supported for POTUS, McCain or Obama? And who will win?
G’day, jv, good to see you kicking goals again.
Ron at 482: “your guy (Obi) using your own words will not support Kyoto ratification”
Have a gander at this, Ron, from a couple of days ago.
“Senator Obama says now is the time to get rid of our dependence on foreign oil. He says for years presidents have merely talked about using renewable energy. He plans on actually moving forward and says Nevada will play a crucial role.
“What Washington has done is what it always does — it has peddled false promises, irresponsible policy and cheap gimmicks that might get politicians through the next election, but won’t lead Americans through the next generation of renewable energy,” he said.
Obama started his visit in Las Vegas looking at the solar panels at the Springs Preserve. The senator says, with our potential for solar, wind and geothermal energy, this state could create upwards of 80,000 jobs by 2025, all while reducing our dependence on foreign oil. He wants to spend $150 billion over the next 10 years in alternative sources of energy.”
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=8546440&nav=168Y
Looks sympatico with what Kyoto’s all about to me, Ron. Or do you genuinely believe McBomster would do any better?
483
jaundiced view
I’ve not even looked at a poll for weeks, no need really, as the zeitgeist is overflowing with the Kid’s good doings.
Nice to know we plonked our money on him last November and then had to sit through tedious sermons from the pontificating ‘experts’ as to why us dumbarsed ‘ignorant loathing lefties’ didn’t have a clue.
Yeah, right!
Good night all, along and difficult day, but worse to come.
Actually it was last December to be really precise.
Still, light years ahead of the pack.
EC – Good evening to you and thanks for the cartoons as usual. I sent my bottle off to Ferny G the other day. Hope the other donors have got a bottle moving in his direction.
KR – g’night to you – same here –
Yes, our suggestions that Baz might have what it takes and be best for the Dems generated plenty didn’t it? The roiling vitriol was hot and effervescent with the malevolence of those producing it. Ah, those were the days …
EC
you ar leading the poker away from the big pot That oil dependency bit is a separate issue which all 3 candidates have detailled stuff on frankly , its an economic essential to US survival and obam’s words on it are fine and i agree with thems , but its not guts of CC CC is now have a look at tapes of Bejing for olympics , thats our future without quick targits Yes Hillary lost the nomineeship race , so did Edwards I’m simply saying if a non partisan ‘left’ person like a bob brown looked at Hillarys (#484) , he’d support it and suport Edwards very similer policy view as well and , would reject Ovbama’s (#477) out of hand Bob brown would almost ceraintley say , and I do not underrstands why yous do not either , is to git Edwards & Hilary in a room with da man (or maybe leav Hillary ourside with the cookies) and tell him to wake up , the 400 top scientisats say min 30% by 2020 is essentials maybe 50% , mr o man take the ‘change to’ politicel risk , put up the clear pro support ratification Kyoto 11 policys at the convention At the campaigns , tell the folks that big Oilys ar going to try and scare yu , but i’m here for the future of planets & our air ,and as for those Senators I expect to ratify as they’ll take notic eof your vote for me I believe the public disclosures of the 400 top scientists of required 2020 targets to the Tyoto politisans negotiating there , leaves them no chice but to accept dem targetts , otherwise hillary Obama McCain and every other World Politican would downsize any targets deals to hilp there own economy , why becasse Kyoto mark 11 comes with big consumer energy cost increases , but also big posible emmission reductions Yous are in diferent galactics tinking somehows agreeing with me on Kyoto CC makes your support for obama zero , it actuallys just makes him a flawed polie that you still support , and as for Mr big mac man he gives me no CC confidendce So i’m at the end and thats where i think so we disagree
“The Republican Party is a dead rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of ‘Weekend With Bernie,’ handcuffed to a corpse.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062501942.html
The above statement was written a fortnight ago by an ardent lifelong Beltway Conservative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm5AO4S04r4
George W Bush and Dick Cheney are not only probably the 2 most reviled men on earth(and that includes a lot of assholes), but they have managed to kill their own Party.
The landslide is coming.
It’s just a shame we can’t fill Gitmo up with these 2 c*nts and a few hundred of their prime enablers.
FINNS & GG
Been reading about the ‘refornation’ and how footy influenced it , and come back her and find my mates are all gone left , probably gon to the bar , and forgot to tell me GG left you out of posts note out of special recognition for FINNS for his Indonesian gnja butterfly recipe
Kyoto was the nite entrees , Post #477 is Obama’s excact written policy Post #484 is Hillarys exact written Policy (similar to john Edward’s policy) Post #497 is my philospies why Kyoto is vip and how da man can sell it
I don’t think the association will come naturally to people as being black is usually associated with not being part of the club.
#462 – [It’s Rudd all over again.] – Diog, it’s not. you are doing a disservice to the Dear Leader. From Day 1, DL proclaimed I am a conservative but bludging on Labor’s solid Reformasi credential.
Whereas Emperor Obama of Ukeleleland has been dragged screaming and packaging into the centre from the far left. But he is not convincing in butterfy morphin’ himself. Not enough of the heavily javascripted borobudur scented indo gnja for the kid i am afraid. Obviously his step father Lolo that has gone into the lalaland did not give him the right javascripts. It’s malicious for you Obamabots here as the javascripts have infected your obamarobotic systems. SNAFU time for you lot here as the Nader Raiders occupied the far left. Where do you go now my lovelies?
A good day to the Amigos Ronnie and GG.
Ron, will reply to 497 this arvo, gotta hit Bris. on biz this glorious morning.
Finn re 501: do you have any concept at all as to what a preferred Candidate is, and has the concept of realpolitik any resonance with you at all?
“Emperor Obama of Ukeleleland”: but you get a cupie doll and a big lei for that one.
As an egalitarian, I don’t do no emporer stuff myself, so “Hanaleiland Barry” is good enough for me!
———————–
St. Joan questions Ralph’s acumen:
“When I first heard, rather than read, Nader’s comments, on “Hardball” today with Chris Matthews and Bob Herbert of the New York Times, I felt a little sorry for Nader, because he sounded almost doddering the way he was rambling about race.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/06/25/nader_obama/
—————
Quinnipiac latest from political wire.
Colorado: Obama 49%, McCain 44%
Michigan: Obama 48%, McCain 42%
Minnesota: Obama 54%, McCain 37%
Wisconsin: Obama 52%, McCain 39%.
Ron,
The next UNFCCC meeting is in Copenhagen next year (December 2009) at which it is expected that a post-Kyoto protocol is agreed upon. Hillary’s “policy” was to come on board for that agreement. Obama’s is the same, he just doesn’t use the words “Kyoto Protocol” because Hillary was using that to appeal to people who don’t understand that they’re the same thing.
Oh, and mandates and US politics don’t really mix. Obama as POTUS would have as much sway over the Senate as Bush does now (i.e. not a hell of a lot).
EC – [realpolitik any resonance ] – it does, when realpolitik = the change i no longer want you to believe in…… ping, ping, ping of the IP address 196.10.804.000
John McCain’s latest add against Obama …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Zy50Dy6Zk
ROTFLOL
Finns- it appears that you are under the misguided impression that those who support Obama (and it appears that there are a couple of hundred or so around the world ) expect him to not behave like a politician.
This is an erroeous assumption on your part i’m afraid. He is going to have to do that to become POTUS – acting like the Dalai Llama won’t get him across the line sadly.
So – all your ranting about javascript (still don’t know what it is) and your allusions to the fact the fact he has lived in Indonesis – is that a problem for you? – are meaningless. The man represents a move in values from what we have had until now.
That’s enough really.
Jen, last night you asked what ‘java script’ was, and I can tell you what it is NOT:
It is not what they write on the island of Java, for example!
It IS, in fact, a programming language that makes web browsers do cool things, like make drop down menus work, and give you little pop-up screens and lots of other do-dahs that we’ve become accustomed to seeing.
No JS, no colour and movement.
As for writing the stuff…eeeeeeeeeeeeeek, that’s for the pointy heads, but if you talk to them nicely, they’ll usually make the code into something a normal person can edit to set the parameters they want, like widths, colours, link appearance and all the features it’s written for.
That any better now?
(I’m doing a biggish project at the moment and talking to programmers at all kinds of funny hours by email/)
Kirri – thank you!
It does make some kind of sense now. Unlike some of the other posts on here…
Republican John McCain would beat Democrat Barack Obama in Texas if the
race were held now. But a significant number of Texans said they haven’t picked
a favorite yet.
Freshman U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, a Republican, leads Democratic challenger Rick
Noriega in the poll, but the margin is slim and a large number of voters haven’t
made up their minds. Cornyn had the support of 38% of the likely voters in the
survey, to Noriega’s 36%.
Texans overwhelmingly believe the country is on the wrong track, with 70% in
that column and only 23% saying “things are moving in the right direction.”
That’s a change from a year ago, when 62% thought the country was on the
wrong track.
more….
http://www.texaslyceum.org/media/staticContent/PubCon_Journals/2008/National%20Summary%20_day%202_%20final.pdf
Obama Leads McCain in Four Key Battleground States.
Democrat Barack Obama holds narrow leads over GOP rival John McCain in Colorado and Michigan, two of the most competitive states in two of the most competitive regions of the country heading into the general-election campaign, according to surveys conducted by Quinnipiac University for washingtonpost.com and the Wall Street Journal.
In two other states that were closely contested in the 2004 presidential election — Wisconsin and Minnesota — Obama holds double-digit edges among likely voters, an indication that these states may not be in the swing category this election. The Democratic Party’s presidential nominee carried both Wisconsin and Minnesota in each of the last four elections, although Sen. John Kerry (Mass.) won each by slim margins in 2004.
more…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/26/AR2008062601307.html
Finns
I agree with you. I misspoke.
I think I was confusing my hopes for a Rudd post-Rodent Government with what he actually said. I agree he did not misrepresent himself as anything other than a more decent version of Howard, which he is. He’s doing a good job IMHO.
Obama has been very clever with his shift to the centre left. While it’s a bit disappointing, it will almost guarantee he gets elected. And then “We’ll just change it all”.
Did Arnold Diss Charlie?
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California is opposed to ending the federal ban on offshore oil drilling, putting him at odds with his party’s presumed nominee, Senator John McCain. On Thursday he also criticized politicians who suggest expanded oil exploration off America’s coasts would lower gas prices, to the delight of the Obama campaign, which saw the remark as an intra-party slap.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/did-arnold-diss-charlie/
Chris B @ 509,
Whilst I don’t think Obama has a chance to win Texas in the general (there are still too many Bush loyalists there), I think Noriega has a surprisingly good chance of taking out Cornyn in the Senate.
For once, the Texas Democratic Party haven’t nominated a liberal cannon-fodder candidate for a state-wide election. And look what happens – a competitive race!!! If only they did this more often in other “unwinnable” states…
As Democrat Barack Obama campaigned on economic issues, polls released today showed him leading likely Republican presidential rival John McCain by five to 17 percentage points in four key states, including one captured by the GOP in 2004.
The polls, by Quinnipiac University in partnership with the Wall Street Journal and washingtonpost.com, show that Obama seems to be building a coalition of women, minorities and younger voters. Obama leads McCain by 49% to 44% in Colorado; 48% to 42% in Michigan; 54% to 37% in Minnesota; and 52% to 39% in Wisconsin.
more….
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign27-2008jun27,0,3191814.story
Clinton loyalists moving to Obama.
On the eve of their big Democratic unity rally in New Hampshire, a new poll released this afternoon suggests that Barack Obama is winning over Hillary Clinton’s former supporters.
The Associated Press-Yahoo News poll found 53 percent of the Democrats who favored Clinton for the nomination two months ago now back Obama for president. That’s an improvement from April, when only 40 percent of Clinton supporters said they would back Obama over Republican John McCain.
That means, however, that nearly half of Clinton loyalists are still not firmly in Obama’s fold about four months from Election Day.
more…
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/
AFL-CIO backs Obama.
Barack Obama solidified his union backing today, as the nation’s largest labor federation formally endorsed him.
The AFL-CIO’s general board unanimously supported the presumptive Democratic nominee, citing his “strong support of working families on issues such as health care reform, fair trade that will lift up workers here and around the world, retirement security and the freedom to form unions and bargain for middle-class living standards.” Obama has a 98 percent voting record on working families’ issues, compared to just 16 percent for Sen. John McCain, the union said.
more….
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/aflcio_backs_ob.html
Minnesota is starting to behave in a very odd manner atm. The GOP evidently thinks that they have a shot of winning it – hence the reason why their Convention is in the Twin Cities this year.
But for most of the year, the polling has shown that Obama has had a clear lead there over McCain. The Quinnipiac poll that Chris B refers to shows this.
However, the previous poll taken in Minnesota (a Survey USA) showed Obama only up by 1% in Minnesota. This was seen (by Fivethirtyeight amongst others) as Obama not getting a post-primary bounce in the North-Central states.
The question is, therefore, which poll is rogue – the Survey USA or the Quinnipiac? And is Obama getting a bounce in these North-West/Central states (i.e, Minnesota, Wisconscin, Iowa, Oregon, Washington, etc)?
513 Swing Lowe. Yes, but at least it will be interesting. Force them to take away resources from elswhere. Also have a look at the undecided.
Here y’all amigos go. Straight from the horses mouth (although I’m sure you can parse something good out of it):
http://www.politico.com/playbook/0608/playbook349.html
That AFL-CIO endorsement may well lead to a bounce for Obama in several key highly-industrialised/unionised states, such as Michigan, Ohio and Indiana (amongst others). The AFL-CIO is the biggest union in the US and will help Obama boost both turnout and fundraising in those “heavily” unionised states.
The AFL-CIO also announced during the primaries that they would be spending about $55 million advertising for the Democratic nominee.
521 Pancho. On top of the Democrats 300 million. WOW! Then there is Moveon.org. We’ll blow them out of the water!
Here’s a reality check for the poll tragics.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/today_now_how_to_pretend_you_give?utm_source=embedded_video
I’m surprised about Colorado, I thought it was a pretty solid Republican state.
It also looks like the Democrats will pick up the senate seat in that state!
So, in other words, Obama probably won’t win some of these red states in November, like Alaska and Texas, but he sure can help his comrades running for house & senate seats!
Swing Lowe
re Minnesota.
I think that it is instructive that the Obama camp didn’t even bother to add Minnesota to their 18 state ad buy .
I’d say that says they are not in the slightest concerned about losing Minnesota.
The only 3 Kerry states they included were New Hampshire, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
But if McCain picks Tim Pawlenty as his running mate, that will make Minnesota very competitive, surely?
Progressive
The Obama team would have included that in their deliberations. They are not in the business of taking risk.
If they were in anyway concerned about MN, it would have been included in the ad buy. imo.
Progressive at 524
Not really – during the Clinton campaign in ‘92 they swung Democrat by 4%. With GWB in ‘00 they went red again by 8% but backed away to 5% for GWB’s second term. In terms of swing capability, the stage shifted 8% towards the red zone between ‘86 and 2000 but they also swung 20% towards the Democrats between ‘84 and ‘88.
whoops … that should have read that Colorado swung swung 24% towards the Democrats between ‘88 and ‘92 (sorry about that).
24%!
They don’t mind a bit of a swing over there do they.
Looks like I’m getting some numbers mixed up – my earlier comments at 528 was correct (20% swing). The 24% swing was from Nevada.
519 pancho -well that’s all fine and well, but he didn’t say he’d sign Kyoto,did he now.
Barack and Michelle each contribute $2,300 to the Clinton Campaign.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/obama-clinton-meeting-fest/
Jen,
You seem to be becoming a little disenchanted with the Obama dream.
From the Imbecile
“I’m the master of low expectations.”
Aboard Air Force One; June 4, 2003
I could add that he consistently fails to live up to those low expectations.
Yes Grinch- I want the Dalai Lama as POTUS.
DYNO & AL , and the Green peoples
Both of you have replied to my CC posts in last 2 days and I’ve not reasonably addressed what yous said until now The UNFCCC in 1992 is non binding emissions , Kyoto is a protocol from that , the binding targets add on There are 2 subtle but crusial points you are mssing But before I do , I acknowledge the political POTUS risks & Obama’s polital reasons , but I think what I propose below is a net vote winner & the only political corse to get a Kyoto deal under the top 400 scientists targets and to get later Senate ratifiactions
Insidently the first complianse penalty period under Kyoto only started on ist January 2008 , the US like all Countryies is required to reduce emmissions for the 5 years 2008 to 2012 by a set average % target , or face that % shortfall added to the next period post 2012 , plus 30% of that % shortfall For the US its target is 7% averaged over 5 years from jan 2008 Japan’s is 6% , UK is 12.5% Germany 21% incl East G , Belgum 7.5% , Canada 6% , Italy 6.5% (and ‘oz’got a pass in mark 1 , as we were deemed a cleared land continent but not from 2012) So all other Countrys are all committed So lets not worry about knee capping Obama or McCain’s presidency vs everyone else in the world whose committed vs the USA’s politcaians ‘vague’ unspecified Policy words
Firstly Obama’ policy is so vague , it is merely promising to dissuss CC Policy docuements by Politicans can be as specific as they want them to be and as vague with as many “outs” as they want them to be If you read Hillarys policy $484 its specific , it promises a post 2012 Kyoto with the US in it by 2009 If you read Obama’s policy #477 under the UNFCCC section only , its not specific at all It promises to ‘engage’ with the UNFCCC Unlike Hillarys #484 , Obama’s does not promise to do anything other than to engage , it does not promise to develop a post 2012 Kyoto at all , it does not promise a timeframe when whatever Obama is discussing will be completed by , it does not promise whatever Obama is dicussing that the US will be part of , but it does allow for Obama /US an “out” to leave to leave the ‘engagement’ if it wishs If you are suggesting its great the US is ‘engaging’ vs Bush’s non ‘engagement’, I’m saying ‘engagement’ is worthless without the commitments the policy is totally blank on The policy allows Obama’s rust on supporters to have faith & assume the best , based on Obama’s Policeys zero promises an committtments Its hard enough to have faith in Pliticaians promises when they are specificalley written down , but to ghave faith when they are not , well good luck vs the 90% of oz who don’t trust pollies promises
Secondly even if one ended up with this vaguelly unspecified Obama policy agreement , it needs Senate ratification (of what the POTUS has negotiated) The POTUS can influence Senators how they vote because of his popularity & patranage However one will not get the US Senate to approve ratification of this vague unspeciffied Obama agreement unless there is a political election ‘mandate’ pressure on them to vote yes , to counter big Oills threats of lobbying risk on their own seats points Therefore my 2 points are connected , the Obama unspesified policy and the politics of getting Senate ratisfication , and a bomb out on either one kills the ‘deal’ Therefore Obama’s policy is deliberately vague promising nothing , he is taking a promise nothing policy to voters , afterwards even if Obma got this unspecified agreement from other Countrys the Senate have to ratify something the voters have not previously voted on & supported , thereby allowing the big oil to kill it by threatening Senators seats electabilitiys
Prediction ? 2 of the 3 worst World polluters (India & China) are off the hook off post 2012 Kyoto , caused by the top polluter the US politicians Obama & Mccain undermining Kyoto by not committing specifically to Kyoto now and supporting a competing CC body at the same very time , India & China become under Kyoto have to negotiate targets post 2012 that Kyoto required of them I predict a non Kyoto non 400 top scientists requird targets ‘deal’ will be done by a G8 type group , of the 13 worst polluters (mostly the richest) and it will contain emission tagets dangerously below the 400 scientists minim required targets to prevent CC irrevversibilty , but get ‘sold’ as a great deal , then see Bob Brown treat it with justified contempt Why bob Brown , on the environment I take acout of what he says
Jen,
I think you just like men in dresses.
Amigo Ronnie,
They come fast and furious. two more under the bus:
1. Gun control – he was a strong advocate. Now “Obama came out in support of yesterday’s supreme court decision overturning a gun ban in the city of Washington that had been a model for fighting urban crime. He had previously supported the Washington ban, the strictest in the US”
2. Death Penalty – he was against death penalty, but now he “took issue with the supreme court for striking down the death penalty for cases of child rape that do not involve murder….. The hard line was seen at variance with comments in his memoir that the death penalty was not a deterrent to crime. As an Illinois state senator he had opposed the death penalty for gang murders”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/27/barackobama.usa
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1818334,00.html
Does this man stand for anything now? Somebody?
Finns,
With so many people and things under that bus, is there any wonder that Obama’s campaign is stopped in its tracks with only the wheels spinning?
Finns
Obviously, my personal view on those two issues is not in line with BO’s thinking on those two. However, isn’t this largely an attempt to neutralize those potentially wedge issues?
YHH, it is very obvious now that:
1. Obama raced to the left and far left as much as possible in order to win the Democrats and beat Hillary during the primaries.
2. Now he has won the nomination, he is racing furiously to the right and far right as much as possible in order to win middle Amerika.
It might be good politics and he might win. But not my cup of java brew.
Finns,
It’s quite normal for candidates to run the to the extremes of their party during the primaries before tacking towards the centre during the general election campaign. Any candidate that does not do so is destined for a landslide defeat (eg, Goldwater ‘64, Mondale ‘84, Dukakis ‘88).
Remember, George W. Bush won the 2000 election on the back of the slogan of “Compassionate Conservatism” – whatever that means. Similarly, Bill Clinton won re-election in 1996 in part because he said “the era of big government is over”.
Whilst Obama’s run towards the centre may disappoint the hardcore Obamanauts, by doing so, he’s taking the issues of gun control and the death penalty out of the equation for the general election. Why? Because these two issues are guaranteed (and proven) losers for the Democratic party unless they run to the right.
I’ll also make the point that McCain ran to the right during his primary campaign (eg, his mega-backflip on immigration) but it should be expected that sooner or later he will move back towards the centre. How he does this is anyone’s guess (there are less hot-button issues against Republicans), but I guarantee you it will happen (probably after he picks his VP)…
“It might be good politics and he might win. But not my cup of java brew.”
Nor mine Finns, and feel free to point out the flaws all you want. Two things though:
1. What makes you say Obama raced to the left in the primaries? My view was the policy differences between him and Clinton were minor (in fact my memory is so pathetic all i can remember in terms of differneces during the primary was the fuel tax cuts). I think the difference was more in the tone of the campaign (postive and ‘utopian’ vs negative and ‘realistic’). I don’t think you can call ‘postive’ campaigning a ‘left’ view. Reagan won himself two elections by handsome margins pulling the same crap.
If i had to suggest someone ran with a particular wing in the primaries, it would be that HRC ran to the right.
2. I would suggest the left is well and truly won for him (in the election contest vs McCain). There seems little to suggest that winning the fringes will help him anymore and it appears clear that he will get the left to turn out. Now he has to win Hillary’s voters, as well as negate the ‘clinging to their guns’ fallout i.e. man the centre. From an objective perspective, this appears to be exactly what he’s doing. As you said, it may be good politics. I think it is. I don’t like it, but then again, it sill irritates me we have a citizenship test. Not that voting for the other team would help that much…
The Finnigans at 542
If you were Obama’s campaign advisor – what would be recommending (keeping in mind that winning is the prime short term objective on which all other objectives are contingent)?
Finns,
A very generous summary of Obama’s flexiblity. Apparently sell out equals pragmatic shift on Planet Obama.
“Mr. Obama is an introspective candidate, and perhaps the best analyst of his own political style. “I serve as a blank screen,” he wrote in “The Audacity of Hope,” “on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.””
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/us/27obama.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
FINNS & GG
Gun control run over by the bus today ? You mean maybe 5 times
Senator Obama voted NO to a Bill in state Senate “to Ban semi-automatics, and more gun possession restrictions.” So semi-automatics are OK
Then he is a Director of Joyce Foundation advocating gun bans & no citizens rights to bear arms So a change , now guns are no good (he got $70,000 directors fees as well)
Then in the Senate in 2005 he votes NO to a Bill on “prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.” So a change , now gun Manufacturers are OK , do not need more controls
Then a change , in the Nominee campaign he was for Gun control
Now today a change , you say “Obama came out in support of yesterday’s supreme court decision overturning a gun ban in the city of Washington So he is now anti gun control
Now I realise Obama is running over principles , but I wish once he has run over it like gun control , that he does not keep resurrecting it so he can run over it 2 more times
My Dear Catrina, my advice would be a very simple one.
* Be yourself
* True to your principles
* People actually do believe in the change that you want them to believe in, so dont betray them.
I would also advice you not to be too sensitive to Sweet William. It’s good to have you back.
Ronnie, GG: This is taking it a bit too far:
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/06/27/bill3.jpg
The Finnigans at 548
The better part of me agrees completely with your criteria. The other part thinks about the realities of being a presidential candidate and the necessary compromises that this will entail. What keeps me sane in all of this the sense of where I see him going based on everything I have seen an heard. For example on the gun stuff – I think we can safely dismiss the abolute positioning that Ron is suggesting at 547, instead, there are interviews with Obama back in the early days of the primaries during which he was talking about the conflicts between the constitution and the realities on the ground. During that interview he talked about some more subtle things, in particular the application of technology to ground the associate of bullet to gun to owner – and the separation of the right to bear arms from the right to ownership of an anonymous bullet. My thoughts at that time was that he thinking about this with a degree of pragmatism that I had not heard before from a US candidate. He was taking into consideration the political realities and the legal realities, and from that articulating a potential solution. Through that, he may not be being true to himself – instead, he may actually be doing something better – in that he may be thinking about ways to save America from itself.
And I love you back, Sweetie!
On the subject of guns and the high court decision …
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/opinion/27fri1.html?ref=opinion
Work Station Abodes:
Evidence of how The American Way Of Life is being cruelly compromised by sky-rocketing fuel prices:
http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20080626_the_ideal_commute/
Ron, in response to your comments at 497, Pancho at 519 touches, as they say at Wrigley Field, the necessary bases. Sure, Obi’s priorities are not as specific as many would prefer them to be, but depite the occasional bunt, The Kid is scoring runs in a ballpark that bleacher people can relate to.
A schmuck like Bomb-Bomb who wants to “drop derrick” in ANWR and drill adjacent to FL & CA coastlines is too much a part of the CC and biospheric problem.
Just another reason why good folk yearn to see Barry kick Bomb-Bomb’s butt come November.
———-
Examples of rudimentary javascript have been documented at temples in Borobudur.
http://www.borobudur.tv/Image/mandala_summit_2.gif
Catrina, there is an old saying: “If you can’t win on your principles, it’s not worth winning at all”. Obama was sold from the beginning as a politician of Principles. Remember the Philly Race Speech. It was supposed to be one of the greatest political speech ever. So you can’t have it both ways.
I like to see him do another Race Speech right now.
The Finnigans at 553
Yep – normally quoted by a loosing party as a part of a validation of defeat.
Me too.
The Oregonian
A key lobbying group philosophically allied with Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Ore., released a survey Wednesday warning that Smith “is clearly quite vulnerable” in his re-election race against Democrat Jeff Merkley.
more…
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1214445329183780.xml&coll=7
The Finnigans @ 553
You’re sounding like the Victorian ALP before they were reformed by Gough Whitlam!
Remember “politics is the art of the possible”
And When Has Obama Ever Worked With Republicans? Oops.
John McCain’s a maverick. He’s fought for a bipartisan fashion,” Brownback said. “I think that the biggest thing I’ve seen from Barack Obama is a willingness, aggressiveness, to talk bipartisan and yet to vote the hard left — most liberal member of the United States Senate.”
So Obama’s rapid-response team quickly fired off an e-mail listing the projects on which he worked with Brownback. They include a Brownback bill that authorized sanctions against people who were involved with the genocide in Darfur, a version of which became law in 2006. They also teamed up on an Obama bill that required the administration to provide humanitarian relief and other aid to the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
more…
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/beyond/2008/06/and-when-has-obama-ever-worked.html
Obama-Clinton Meeting Fest
By Jeff Zeleny
WASHINGTON – Senator Barack Obama said Thursday that he had written a personal check of $2,300 to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, a goodwill gesture intended to nudge his top donors to help ease Mrs. Clinton’s debt and help the two Democrats move beyond their rivalry to focus on the fall campaign.
“I wrote my check to the Hillary for President committee,” said Mr. Obama, who was greeted with booming applause from some of Mrs. Clinton’s top supporters. Michelle Obama also contributed $2,300.
more….
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/obama-clinton-meeting-fest/
Finns, this is one reason why I prefer the Greens to the other Australian parties. In the U.S., however, the two party system is more deeply entrenched, so the Democrats have to take the Left and the Centre in order to win.
I don’t like Obama’s current position on the gun ban in Washington. I personally wish he would stand more to the Left because that suits me best. But I still think there is potentially a lot of good to come from an Obama president, so I understand that in order to win, he can’t simply pander to the Left.
It’s just reality. We also had to deal with the same issue last year with Rudd.
Anyway, Finns, as a McCain supporter, your politics must be well to the Right. So I would imagine you’d be happy to have Obama shift Right-wards, yeah?
“It’s good to have you back.”
reply
“And I love you back, Sweetie!”
well another dityy went tinto the dustbin
“we can safely dismiss the abolute positioning that Ron is suggesting at 547″
the voting NO to baning semi automatic weapons , and the later NO vote to controls on Gun manufacturers are actuall recorded Senate votes Yous cann’t getting any more absolutes than that They ar not ‘regressive liberal stances ats all and neither was todays bit opposing Washinfinton gun controls I have lots more I’ve never voted ‘right’ in my life , but just because bush was bad everyone looks good against him bush was a once off , but one does not have toi ‘vote’ for Obama either if we find the product opened is not what the packits said it was So yo ho ho and Blind we ar talikng US politicaians here not ‘oz’ ones
“So yo ho ho and Blind we ar talikng US politicaians here not ‘oz’ ones”
I fully agree with you Ron. I said i’m not particularly excited about the stance. I just don’t think it will hurt him come election time.
Mr Obama received a standing ovation from a crowd of more than 200 at Washington’s Mayflower Hotel when he said he would enlist his supporters to help pay off Mrs Clinton’s debt.
Mrs Clinton is due to back Senator Obama’s bid for the White House for the first time on Friday at a joint campaign rally in Unity, New Hampshire – where they each got 107 votes in the state’s primary.
more….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7476689.stm
Yo ho ho
neither will hisck of support forr Kyoto & universal healthcate , but that does not make it rite
his lack of
Will Smith gives backing to Obama.
Pretty good judge’
“Nelson Mandela is kind of the one person I’ve said yes to. And Barack Obama was probably only the second person that I’ve really to this level said yes to.
“And that’s because I believe what he believes in.
more…..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7474836.stm
I don’t like Obama’s position on guns either, but the reality is that the vast majority of US citizens believe in their right to own guns. According to a Gallup Poll taken on 26th June, after the Supreme Court decision:
“A clear majority of the U.S. public — 73% — believes the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the rights of Americans to own guns. And almost 7 out of 10 Americans are opposed to a law that would make the possession of a handgun illegal, except by the police.”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108394/Americans-Agreement-Supreme-Court-Gun-Rights.aspx
No-one running for political office can afford to be that out of step with the majority of citizens. As I posted earlier “politics is the art of the possible”
Noocat, are you trying to be obnoxious or you are obnoxious.
Four states that are expected to be pivotal in deciding November’s presidential election are trending comfortably toward Barack Obama, with independents giving him wide support over John McCain, according to a Quinnipiac University poll conducted in partnership with The Wall Street Journal and washingtonpost.com.
The battleground surveys suggest how favorable the terrain is for Sen. Obama, the presumed Democratic nominee, at the outset of the summer general-election campaign. He is leading Sen. McCain, his apparent Republican rival, by double digits in Wisconsin and Minnesota and by smaller, but still comfortable, margins in Colorado and Michigan.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121448793591307047.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
Fri June 27:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/billday;_ylt=AsnbsyrsVeFlS8hUNRqqm7zXj5Z4
Fri June 27:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/jerryholbert;_ylt=Aj15IU9nOvwA9yE3HRy_1UPV.i8C
Fri June 27: for Big Club members , it’s “hi ho the merry-O, a hunting we will go”, but for folk who ain’t in The Big Club, it’s an Armed Madhouse out there!
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tomtoles;_ylt=AguVCPgHYcv9DhE4V5JDkXNT_b4F
567
Well, Finns, the question for is this: have you remained true to your principles as you shifted your support from Hillary to McCain and from the Democrats to the Republicans?
It’s hard to imagine you didn’t sell out somewhere along the line, which is not exactly a great look for someone who judges others according to whether they stick to their principles, would it?
Has anyone noticed how many very safe Republican seats are now borderline. Oreagon senate, Florida, & Indiana judt to name a few.
Spell check just to name a few.
Can I think of another politician who religiously avoided being wedged on any issue?? Hmmmm, let me think.
Can I think of another politician who only differed from government policy when public opinion was firmly on his side? Hmmmm. Work Choices, Kyoto, Apology….
573 Diogenes Whatever it takes to win an election. Its much better than the alternative. 4 more years of Bush III.
Can I think of another politician who only differed from government policy when public opinion was firmly on his side? Hmmmm. Work Choices
So if workchoices had of been popular , Rudd & Labor & the Greens would have supported it you are being deliberately obnoxous
573 Diogenes Thats a McCain ad? Could have fooled me.
Ron
Crank the dwalfy, ‘monkey’ is baaack!
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23931545-5012572,00.html
576 Chris B Sorry that was meant to be 505 Catrina.
Chris B
I agree he’s much better than McBush. He’s also better than Billary. It’s just getting a bit hard to muster up too much enthusiasm.
I don’t agree with “Whatever it takes to win an election”. If you move too far from what you believe in, it’s no longer a victory for you, it’s a victory for someone else.
579 Diogenes. Don’t change what you believe in. Just moderate it for the election. That is much better than blatant lying that some parties do.
Ron 575
Yes Ron. Rudd would not have opposed WorkChoices if it meant he would lose the election. WorkChoices was a dog with fleas so he was on a winner. He would have thrown the unions under the bus faster than Hillary ran from the sniper fire.
I will not introduce a GST.
I agree. In this case, it would be a victory for the MSM, which loves to cook up a storm when a politician deviates into anything resembling Left-wing territory.
For me, however, I see a President Obama as a small step toward positive change in the world. The fact that he is Black in an historically racist country, keen to tackle climate change and dependency on oil, isn’t a neocon, is not hawkish, and wants to change the way politics is done, is enough for me, at least for now.
My hope is that an Obama president would at least inspire a shift to more progressive thinking in other parts of the world, even if he is predominantly a centrist in his own country. At any rate, despite whatever is said before the election, I suspect that Obama will provide a few surprises when he is president.
I never expected a revolution from Obama. But there is the potential for an evolutionary step in the right direction, far greater than Hillary could have provided and of course, way beyond McCain, who would be a further step backward, in addition to all the other steps backward under Bush.
Ronski
Here’s an excellent article on poor old Zimbabwe. I draw your attention to the line that says that Morgan Tsvangirai’s name is still on the ballot paper. I further ask you to recollect your arguments that Billary deserved every vote to be counted in Florida, where Obi had his name on the ballot, as well as Michigan where his name was not on the ballot.
In light of these facts, may I humbly suggest that the inescapable conclusion I reach from combining these facts is that you support Mugabe’s re-election as democratic.
Zimbabwe votes in Mugabe election
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7476735.stm
583 Noocat Their is also one more of the tri senate elections to go. If he is too radical the filibuter proof senate will not last long. For the next two years he should be moderate. Then the senate will be fillibuter proof for a long time. The last of the George Bush post 911 landslides will be overturned. The Repugs will NEVER be able to undo what has been done without first completely rebuilding.
Should read filibuster proof.
Bill Clinton lost control of the Senate after 2 years, and I am sure the Democrats are aware of how important that was.
It highly restricted what they could do, and the changes they could make.
The Democrats lost control of both houses of Congress in 1994. They’d previously held a majority in the House of Reps for 40 straight years.
If there’s a lesson there, it’s that mid-term elections are often difficult for the party in the White House. We shouldn’t automatically expect that the Democrats will make gains in 2010.
Jen
#532
“519 pancho -well that’s all fine and well, but he didn’t say he’d sign Kyoto,did he now.”
NO , and he never will I copied word for word th exact policys of Obama an Hillary on Kyoto and UNFCCC in #477 and #484 , I did not add a word and I did not leave out a word Send them both to bob Brown for his judgment You see I’m not asking yous to believ me at all !! He will trash Obama’s and support Hillarys policy for Kyoto mark 11 post 2012 (and criticise both re Kyoto mark 1)
Ron-
do you have the faintest idea what iRONy means?
it may be a blessing for you however.
you obviusly do not undertand Kyoto mark 1 or Kyoto mark 11 , and you ar showing yur ignorance of it Why you are in the Greens
589 David Walsh You are quite right. But I suspect barring the Democrats stuffing up badly. The good will they will have after GW Bush should last a while.
Jen,
Do you have the faintest idea of STUPIDITY means?
ESJ
May I assume you have accepted our two-book bet? What’s your second book for me, the first being Das Kapital?
I left a very delectable foursome for you to choose from, in the unlikely event that I lose.
Some of yous Greens Party supporters like Noocat , HarryH and j/v must vote ‘green’ cynically The Greens partys existence is environment with Kyoto & CC as its core and yous do not have the courage to criticise Obama here for a rotten Kyoto CC policy that bob brown would sneer at Then others like Jen just do not understand their own Green Partys pelicy anyway
You can not evan do a Yo ho ho , he is not happy about obama on guns & death penaltys but wstill supports Obama FINNS “If you can’t win on your principles, it’s not worth winning at all” , agree , selling out core policy principles was Howards way and obama is copying Labor and “normal” Greens do not do that
ESJ
the answer is NO , she does not Otherwise a supporter woud not cynically poke fun at their own Green partys core Kyoto CC policy
Diogenes,
I propose:
Kwame Nkrumah “Neo-Colonialism, The Last Stage of Imperialism”
RIP. The Change Agent and the “magic” of Obama. The profile of no courage.
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=C6D9A9B8-3048-5C12-007ECB3F0699E3EB
does Obama have any ‘left’ or repressive policys remainng , all run over ? The virtual reality Candidate
No Ron he’s the Seinfeld candidate.
598
ESJ
Excellent choice and very topical too. I read somewhere that it’s Mugabe’s favourite book. I accept.
Edward StJohn at 594
That would be a measure of stupidity at one’s disposal. I’m guessing your asking because you don’t know the definition of means as I do know your already familiar with the term stupidity. But if you like I could provide some additional reference information to help you understand the underlying concepts if it all gets too much.
After all, we are here to help you.
Ronnie, Is he:
* Pro life or Pro choice
* pro or anti Gay rights & same sex marriage
The Finnigans at 604
Are we talking about ESJ or Obama?
Catrina good to see that you ar not ‘wimping’ it with ESJ our resident pekinese pj probem…lol
Hey Ron give us another ‘monkey’ burst, go on…or did you miss this
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23931545-5012572,00.html
FINNS
Rudd took all kimmy Beasleys clothes , grabbed all the Labor policys Kimmy had in his pockets and put dem policys into Ruddys Armani Then ruddy runs around and says he’s a fiscal consevative and me too with Pete with that dapper consevative business look , but still sprouting all of kimmys policys , and he wins
Now to Ommy man , he starts off in reverse gear to Ruddy , speaks so loooverly with that loovrly tie on , with all those regressive policys in his pockets & sprouting them to all with ‘getysberg’ oratorys But as he’s travelled , a hole got into the policys pocket , and those dems ‘left’ policys been falling out and the bus runs dem over And now the pockeys are almost empty of those old style progressive policys So at the finish ruddy looked consevative but was still sprouting really ‘left’ policys , wheras Ommy originally did look ‘left’ & dapper , and did allegedly have ‘left’ pockets , but finishs looking only lite ‘left’ with empty ‘left’ policy pockets The Bus ran over both at same time
Ron at 607
Ron, you have to give the guy credit for choosing a quality product. With all of the things you claim the bus has run over, the suspension on that vehicle is out-performing anything I’ve seen on the public transport circuits. I guess when you opt out of public financing it just means you can put more into quality suspension.
‘The Bus ran over both at same time’
FINNS with conception , obama has voted both ways depending on definitions of what is a baby , so pro and anti abortion can see good in him , one of the issues the bus ran over not mentioned here
Catrina, is ESJ running for POTUS?
codger at 606
I don’t see what your laughing about!
Clearly ESJ has a problem and we should be using all of the means at our disposal to help ESJ with his question on stupidity – even if this means pointing out what means means, if you know what I mean.
The Finnigans at 610
I don’t think he’s qualified.
“public financing”
realise FINNS is the atrractives amigo , me the naughty one and yous ar jesting here But one day i’ll post on this Suffice to say if someone of 2% of Mr gates wealth run in futur as a Republican with so much money he controls the airwaves & blocks out the dems and wins , this is the US of A free entreprise , and wins POTUS , I can hear you sayin wealth should not decide who is the best POTUS nice to win when your man has all the bickies , but “public financing principles were not negotiable as presedents are dangerous an one day dems marbles are going to be in a Republican hand
Catrina, what exciting stuff have you planned for us this am morning?
* A ball by ball of Wimbledon of court 35?
* Zimbabwe votes counting?
* The dismantling of the North Korean nuclear facility?
Serina is lookin good
Ronnie, [Serina is lookin good] please be more specific
Ron Says:FINNS with conception
Dwalfy thinkskin condo* explodes…
The Finnigans at 614
Well, now that you mention it, I was thinking about vocabulary lesson for ESJ. Something along the lines of introducing a bunch of new words. Stuff like rusty knife, castration, and self-mutilation – but then I thought about that and figured that William would not appreciate me drifting off-topic – so instead I’m planning on catching up political traffic over on the NYT.
What about you?
Catrina, my amigo Ronnie has planned for me already. How can i resist: FINNS with conception
FINNS ,
its dems drss’s she 1/2 wears , such a distraction for a coinnoisor of tennis
can the bus be equpped with jumbo tires i may have a go soon at the the Obama bigest principle of all No one in the US seems to have cracked the Fortress code of it , but i got a feeling they all lookig the wrong way I may use his principle of how he broke up all the 435 congressional districts to attack the nomineehip as the point as how they constructed team Obama waggon , but jumbo tyres to run it over are needed if I found the code
The Finnigans at 619
No, no, … tell me its not true!
yes, yes, yes, she’s waiting already. gotta jump
LOL
Sandstorm stalls Iraq Anbar handover
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/27/2288502.htm?section=justin
For a fascinating read on the location of the Obama/Clinton Unity event – the following post is kind of almost out of a good book. It’s almost all too sublime to believe – but so sublime that it its so believable.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/the-view-from-unity/
CodgY ,
see Serina , FINNS , conception Can not you see yet what ou mssed out on staying with those history books lent to you by the Ivory Tower mob ,, you have had it all
mssed out, story of my life Ron…
Ron at 625
But think about the consequences!
never worry about those when having fun , hell that would spoil it
Here is an interesting pro-life advert against Obama going to air in several US cities on Friday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCm8a5e47Kw
Some of the background and politics of the add is further discussed in the following NYT article.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/new-ad-hits-obama-on-abortion/
luckey he seems swiftboat proof I could runadds against Obama on both pro life and anti , and abortions Suppose for FINNS ,ten theres Serina , i could throw in som conception ones as well
January 10, 2008 at 6:21 pm @ Poss’s
’cause yous have double standards
The Indians are calling ‘Roy’ a liar.
BUT
the precious loney left , the righteous ‘politically correct’
and the ‘reluctant Australian’ jealous immigrants would cry
Yooz should go back to your crappy country of origin yo jealous Poms Kiwi’s etc or if yooz are from the looney left , you,ve obviously had your full days drug quota already
So pal , piss off back to your crappy country of origin’
Come on Ron give us the ‘full monkey’…those Japanese can’t get away with this surely?
CodgY
Like the way you pull quotes out of a whole post I also notice you have not quoted Possems slamming of the Indian team I also more importantly for context notice you did not quote Possum at all eg
” 51 Possum Comitatus Says:
January 10, 2008 at 10:50 am
Chade, I had a flood of them (Indians flooding sites) late last night – I’ve got them going into the moderation bin. I dont do flamewars here.”
Yu really are a fool CodgY Read what Possum said We had Indian blogers , pretending to be Australians , flooding ‘oz’ sites everywhere to make it appear as if the ‘oz’ public thought the ‘oz’ cricketers were crooks & liars and racists
And you sucker fall for it , unbelievable
The most effective means of atacking such morions was not to call them Indian blogers which they plainly wer but to call them someting ‘oz’ peoiple understand , a whinging pom , a llooney eft drugies And i’ll do it again whethrr you like it or not And as for your intepretation at the time effectively calling 5 ausrtralian legend cricketers liars , if you like the Indian standards of non racismm so much , live there , but you will be allocated a ‘caste’ level The fact is 5 aussies say the ‘monkey’ term was used and it was intended to be and is racist to th West indian born Simmonds And as for players behavour these days I agree with Possum its professional today played hard for big bucks , if you do not like it switch to an Obama movie
Bite the ‘monkeys’ bum Ron…
codger,
This constant personal attack on Ron is offensive drivel. More importantly, you are boring. It’s about time you had something to say about the topic of this thread.
GG at 634
I think your critique against codger is unwarranted – after all, codger came out in support of me in the subject of ESJ’s stupidity question. I think the subject of stupidity and ESJ are relevant topics and you, I, and codger have the means and the wherewithal to address this in a way that serves the public interest.
The Allieance, rendition & goal post shifting; oh & he would say that…
Last month, Mr O’Sullivan told the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee that ASIO had no knowledge of a request to transfer Mr Habib to Egypt and that “we were never asked by the United States about that issue”.
However, this week he corrected that evidence in a letter to the committee, revealing he had since been told about a conversation between “my predecessor Mr Richardson and a US government official in Canberra on 21 October, 2001″.
“I believe Mr Richardson in effect regarded that conversation as a request for Australian views,” Mr O’Sullivan wrote.
“Consequently I have come to the view that it is more correct to say that the United States sought Australia’s views on the possibility of Mr Habib’s transfer to Egypt and that Mr Richardson conveyed the view that the Australian government could not support any transfer of Mr Habib to Egypt.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23934537-601,00.html
GG nothing personal at all, just asking for Ron’s ‘monkey’ watch radar re BHO; a ‘kyoto’ moment if you will…
You are saying because CodgY agrees with you then codgY is OK The fact is codgY is bad & is clever than you think in channels
Insidently , CodgY did not “SUPPORT” you , ESJ did not call you stupid , my
ESJ actually called Jen , the “Greens Party ” poster , stupid in #594 because Jen in #591 mocked her own Greens Party CC Kyoto policey stance that i had set out in #590 i agree with ESJ , jen either was disrespecting trashing her own green party’s CORE brand or does not underrstand ‘greens party’ CC Kyoto policy , and eithr of which is not smart Jen is probaly very well meaning , but lacking full greens Kyoto policy knowledge would have been better off accepting my suggestion to send #477 (hillary’s) and #484(obama’s) to bobby Brown or just saying nothig As for ESJ and public interst , I get along fine with ESJ even though in past we sometimes argue strongly on our differnt philo’s and we will in future , an I will with my emporatus history mate Sir robert doctinaires as well I could writes you a loovly dityy but would never do so behind FINNS back , And GG amigo , thanks mate
‘The fact is codgY is bad’…sheesh big mouth, can’t you keep a secret Ron?
Now, ‘monkey businness’; come on Ron, let’s set the Japanese right…come on, there’s a good Ron…THE JAPANESE IMPLIED THAT THE PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRAT NOMINEE IS A MONKEE!!! We can caps lock this together…you know we can! Dig deep, find your true amigos as opposed to your fellow travellers…
Ron at 637
No – note at all – all I was pointing out is that codger was maintaining commentary relative to the thread at that time. After all – the thread was for the most part dealing with ESJ, stupidity, and means.
I’m sorry, but I’m having a little difficulty in parsing that question. If you like I could include you in my remedial writing lesson, but – I should point out that dealing with ESJ, stupidity and means are non-trivial. However, if you think you could benefit I would be happy to include you in the program.
Ron at 637
No – note at all – all I was pointing out is that codger was maintaining commentary relative to the thread at that time. After all – the thread was for the most part dealing with ESJ, stupidity, and means.
I’m sorry, but I’m having a little difficulty in parsing that question. If you like I could include you in my remedial writing lesson, but – I should point out that dealing with ESJ, stupidity and means are non-trivial. However, if you think you could benefit I would be happy to include you in the program.
Ron – nobody is calling anyone stupid – gosh – that would be really stupid. What ESJ did was to ask Jen if she knew what a “stupidity means” was. I simply answered ESJ question by pointing out that a means is a measure and stupidity is an attribute that ESJ is already familiar with. I mean – I’m not saying your stupid or anything for not recognizing this – or that your don’t have the means or wherewithal to address the subject – but I think we should keep the topic focussed on ESJ’s comment.
Ron! That would stupid. What ESJ actually asked is if Jen understood “the faintest idea of stupidity means”. Now clearly economic means deals with personal revenue, moral means deals with the morality of self, and presumably – stupidity means deals with a level of stupidity. ESJ di not call UJen stupid – he simply asked her a question about her understanding on the term. As the term is clearly resolvable given a modern dicroinary, I thought it appropriate to present to ESJ common ground on ESJ, stupidity, and means – although I should confess that we are in difficult territory here. After all, this is a political blog, and using the terms ESJ, political, and means is a bit of a stretch. But in this regard – if I can help – just call on me and I’ll be there.
And so you should. You and I, together with codger and GG – we can make a difference. ESJ may not have the means or the wherewithal, he has demonstrated his ability to capture the subject of stupidity – and I’m sure that CNN or MSNBC could package the combination of politics, ESJ, stupidity, means (or the lack thereof) as an important topic. I agree with you and join with you in calling for everyone here at PB to stand up and support these three important word …
ESJ, means, stupidity.
Hillary is live …
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#22886841
Catrina, in the Philippines, they call you Mis Conception.
Am disappointed in your 4am excitement machine. I got up to watch OZ trashing the Calypso Collapso Boys and was expecting to follow your vote-by-vote counting of the Zimbabwe election. You know one for Mugabe, one for M again, another for M, one for M etc etc.
Instead I got a live link to the boring old conventional polly Hillary uniting with another boring new conventional kretek smoking, tripe eating and jamu drinking polly called Barry O’bama. Is that kid from Big Iresland? You have to do better next time.
Amigo Ronnie, [I could writes you a loovly dityy but would never do so behind FINNS back] – pls be my guest. The Cat Woman needs and deserves some sunshine in her life, as she seems to live thru the darkest hours just before the dawn.
You might also dedicate it to jen as her Green has turned into a very white shade of Brown as the ceiling flew away from her courtesy of ESJ.
A very good Saturday to all. (just seeing the lovely Mr. Sun peeking thru’ the leaves, it’s kinda hard to die on a morning like this).
Turnout is reported to be slow in Zimbabwe despite the ZANU-PF’s fairly aggressive get out and vote campaign, aka Vote or Die. Scrutineers were surprised to see quite a long queue until they realised they were queueing for bread not to vote.
Salve Psephsters,
Circumstances beyond my immediate control render me Poll Bludging from an upmarket computer this morning less befitting one’s cyber-station in life, hence the poncey handle.
It’s a temporary thing.
Fri June 27:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/mattbors;_ylt=AhCZ3HYGoKeha6ESbAj.8IfX.sgF
Fri June 27: Catrina, 4 U:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/doonesbury;_ylt=AuzNvfRO1FLE1GdSjWs1OWzb.sgF
Fri June 27: Hypocricy, thy name is Imbecile!
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/mikeluckovich;_ylt=Al1bNzXVvfNbejHnHSIqOpFR_b4F
McCain’s new ad:
“ANNCR: American technology protected the world.
We went to the moon, not because it was easy, but because it was hard.
John McCain will call America to our next national purpose: Energy Security.
A comprehensive bipartisan plan to:
Lower prices at the pump.
Reduce dependence on foreign oil through domestic drilling.
And champion energy alternatives for better choices and lower costs.
Putting country first.
McCain.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O85jpuFKT4&eurl=
No difference at all between their climate change policies and postures, eh?
Damn – missed all the discussion about my stupidity.
Which I gather is all about my non-outraged response to Obama not focussing on Kyoto and therefore me being a sellout to the Greens party.
I was not aware that Obama was a member iof the Greens – or I might have had a bit more to say about it. I am aware thatlin this and several other areas including his support for guns, the death penalty and a wavering on pro-choice and his religious beliefs he is not one hundred per cent ideal.
However, i am also of the view that no politician running for POTUS is going to be.
The Dalai Lama on the other hand is a much better representative of many of the values I hold dear (apart from the religious stuff). However given that he is not running, Obama is closest to the mark.
Clinton brings Obama to Hispanic supporters.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced former rival Sen. Barack Obama to her Hispanic supporters and fundraisers Thursday night, and he got an earful from a group that remains skeptical nearly a month after their Democratic primary battle ended.
“We were offering constructive criticism that will help him in the fall,” said Ingrid Duran, a Falls Church consultant who advised Clinton on Hispanic issues. “At the end of the day, we’ll support the nominee. The question is how actively.”
more….
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/clinton-brings-obama-to-hispanic-supporters-2008-06-27.html
If Barack Obama can emulate Reagan and cross the acceptability threshold, he will not only win but win big.
Yes, a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll shows Barack Obama ahead of John McCain by 12 points, and a Newsweek poll has Obama up by 15 points. But two polls aren’t a trend. A more recent three-night tracking poll, completed on June 24 by Gallup, has the race dead even at 45 percent each. A separate USA Today/Gallup poll has Obama up by just 6 points. And polls by Fox News; ABC News/Washington Post; Cook Political Report/RT Strategies; and Reuters/Zogby, all taken about the same time, have Obama ahead by 4 to 6 points.
lots more….
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cr_20080628_6561.php
More from the same article…
Americans are demanding change. A glance at the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows that just 16 percent of voters think that the country is headed in the right direction. Seventy-one percent say that it is off on the wrong track. As they are demanding change, voters are showing a preference (note the distinction) for Democrats. The same poll shows that, by 16 points, voters want the Democrats to win the White House.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cr_20080628_6561.php
Obama, Clinton appeal for Democratic unity in N.H.
UNITY, N.H. (AP) — Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton sought Friday to turn the page on their bitter, history-making fight for the Democratic presidential nomination, declaring the next chapter is about beating Republican John McCain.
Choosing a small New Hampshire community aptly named Unity for their first joint appearance since the campaign ended, Obama and Clinton stood on a platform before thousands of cheering, shouting supporters and took turns praising each other and urging party solidarity. She called the nominee-in-waiting a standup guy and he declared: “She rocks. She rocks.”
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_CLINTON?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Obama & Clinton came together in this hamlet where each won 107 votes in January’s primary. Body language rivaled campaign rhetoric as attention-getter of the day. And a pair rendered distant by a marathon campaign acted like teammates, alternately exhorting the rank-and-file to put any recriminations behind them.
Clinton noted that they had stood “toe to toe” against each other in a primary season fight that began almost two years ago and declared the time has come to “stand shoulder to shoulder” against the GOP. They seemed equally determined to regain a White House that their party hasn’t seen since her husband, President Clinton, left at the start of 2001.
more….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/27/AR2008062700475.html
Unity: ‘It’s a wonderful feeling,’ Clinton and Obama say.
Once rivals for the presidential nomination, Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton came to this small town today, hoping it will live up to its name come November.
“Unity is not only a beautiful place,” Clinton said. “As we can see, it’s a wonderful feeling — isn’t it?” she said as Obama, sitting nearby, applauded.
more…
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign28-2008jun28,0,3978248.story
If Obama holds all the Kerry states, he’s at 252. Add Iowa for 259. Add a win in Virginia or North Carolina, “and it’s game, set, match,” says Plouffe. Or add Colorado and New Mexico, Republican states where Obama now leads, to reach 270. The campaign last week put up a biographical ad in 18 states, including Alaska and Montana, historically Republican states. It looked like Obama was just trying to taunt McCain, lure him into spending money in states where he shouldn’t. But Plouffe insists “there’s not a head fake in the bunch.” Alaska’s octogenarian Sen. Ted Stephens, under investigation for corruption and the sponsor of the infamous “bridge to nowhere,” is in a tight race for reelection. Montana, which Bill Clinton won in ‘92, has a Democratic governor and senator.
more…
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143474
Fri June 27:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/mattbors;_ylt=A0WTUcWGkGVIPJgANwEDwLAF
Fri June 27: for Catrina
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/doonesbury;_ylt=A0WTUcWGkGVIPJgACQEDwLAF
Fri June 27: Axis-of-Evil maker ‘n’ breaker mouthpiece, The Imbecile, flaunts his formidable wares as a Reality Controller:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/mikeluckovich;_ylt=AlihsfbdnycHwi_ob_7isrbXj5Z4
Reality Control 1: “Doublethink” is the major way the Party controls its members. Through “doublethink,” people consciously accept anything the Party tells them, even if it contradicts something they already know. Furthermore, they consciously suppress any thought or information that goes against anything the Party says. To complete the cycle, they must forget that they have even used doublethink. For example, Oceania is continually at war with either Eurasia or Eastasia. In April of 1984, Oceania is at war with Eurasia; citizens must force themselves to “remember” that they have always been at war with Eurasia, despite the fact that Oceania was allied with Eurasia only four years before. Failure to control their thoughts using doublethink, would result in thoughtcrime.
http://www.bookrags.com/notes/1984/TOP3.htm
————————-
Read ‘em & weep amigos trios:
Intrade Market Odds
64.9 The Kid; 30.9 Johnny Bomb-Bomb (Eurasia).
It used to be said that 3am was the devil’s hour but clearly on Poll Bludger the hour belongs to the resurrected Catrina.
The various aggresgate measure of Obama position are all starting to level out.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/ has Obama on 317
http://www.intrade.com/ at a state level has 322 seats in the democrat column with an overall win probability of 65%.
(the difference between the two is that punters at in trade are slightly favouring the democrates in Nevada but they are slightly behind on current polls)
Over at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ some fancy filtering of incoming polls have Obama on 310 seats with a 65% chance of winning.
So Obama’s much anticiapted post-primary bounce seem to be about 5% or around 50 college votes. These are good numbers but its by not means a killer lead.
Next question is whether is can improve on this baseline or have we hit peak Obama?
The key swing states (according to Intrade prices) are
State ECV Probability (democrat)
OHIO 20 66
NEWHAMPSHIRE 4 65
VIRGINIA 13 58
NEVADA 5 54
MISSOURI 11 52
FLORIDA 27 37
INDIANA 11 33
NTH.CAROLINA 15 29
The problem for McCain is that he needs to win every single state in the list – assumming the rest go with form (farily big assumption I know). He a reasonable chance in many- but winning em all – that is hard.
“We’re not going to wake up on November 4th with our campaign worrying about one state,” he said, harking back to Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. “We will have a lot of states in play … a lot of ways to get to 270.” Were he any other partisan strategist, I would discount 50 percent for spin. But Plouffe is convincing, and here’s why: He ran a brilliant primary campaign, and Obama will have the money and the technology to pursue every last vote he thinks might be his.
Let’s do the math……..”
(one more time with feeling)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143474
Here’s Plouffe’s spiel: https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/briefing1?source=20080627_DPV_ND
From the link at 657, it is apparent that Team Obama have gone to great lenghts to secure the all important “codger vote”.
“while Obama can fill stadiums with people who swoon when he blows his nose.”
Ronster, you’ll like this.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Tanden_signs_on.html
#660, Pancho, just as i was expected, Obama has started to bludge on the talent of Hillary and her people. But it’s ok, we are generous people.
Whatever you need to make the humble pie go down easier Finns.
More doubters emerge regarding Obama’s transition in to just another politician.
“the last thing Obama wants is people asking the question, “Is this the man I thought he was? Because once the question is asked, it’s already answered.”"
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider/2008/06/is-obama-a-typical-politician.html
excellent summation work to rule. Although to be fair the list below applies to Obama
OHIO 20 66
NEWHAMPSHIRE 4 65
VIRGINIA 13 58
NEVADA 5 54
MISSOURI 11 52
in the sense that each has a strong republican voting record or is a true bellwether, Ohio has always been won by Republicans who win, NH has a strong McCain bias, Virginia voted democrat in1964, Nevada is a traditional republican state and Missouri is classic swing territory.
Bottom line – Obama to win has to win independents and moderate conservatives over McCain in at least one of these states, ie he has to win the fabled middle class.
If you buy the Obama malarkey about not needing the whitey vote and he does in fact win Virginia then it probably means the Dems do in fact have a lock on the Electoral college given the impossibility of a republican winning in places like NY and CA.
GG, there are just that many times that you can “tweak” your brand. Once the critical mass is reached, your brand is ain’t worth anything anymore to anyone anytime anywhere.
flip flops anyone?
Corroborating my, “the bastards have lost control of the message” meme.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55298
Fri June 27: Hidden Persuaders of the Unconscious meet Market Forces
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20080627/cx_zi_uc/zi20080627;_ylt=A0WTUf2BoGVI8msB4xMDwLAF
Pump ‘n’ Dump
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55338
The 21st Century invention ‘ObamaroticThink’ , coloquilly called ‘grna ButterflyThink’ In centuries past , media barons & MSN’s with GroupThink controlled the masses , and then there was DoubleThink the Political Partys suppressing the masses inde thinkings But the new centuy has brought 2 new thought Ttitians , one on the one horizon is the beacon , th ray of light of lucid diverse free thoughts for thinking peoples via AffiableamigoThink and , the other titan against the clouds is ‘ObamaroticThink’ , causally known as ‘grna ButterflyThink’ where daily on a liquid of 10 secnd Obamarotic videos creates Obamamannias of chirpings of peoples consciously accepting all even if it contradicts something they already know And for the elitisdt gentrymans , th daisy brand of the video recipe now now available in all good Ivory Tower appartments , especially the buttiefly premium fodder video that consciously suppresses any thought or information that goes against anything ‘grna ButterflyThink’ says and blocks out every and all diverse views
Bush Lawyers:
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55451
“ On June 26, 2008, Addington appeared to testify under subpoena from the House Judiciary Committee along with former Justice Department attorney John Yoo in a contentious hearing on detainee treatment, interrogation methods and the extent of executive branch authority”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Addington
————–
Ronaldo at 669, positively Poppinsian, mate.
Supercalifragilistic-dwalfy-expialidocious!!
Help me out here, Ron. Is ‘ObamaroticThink’ a necessary prerequisite to Babylon Kidspeak?
656 Work To Rule A long way to go yet. The serious advertising hasn’t started yet.
That shouldn’t start till at least September. Just build up slowly till then. Any big lead the Democrats have before then they won’t knock back. All they need to do is prepare all the ground work and show a face of unity. Then the tidal wave starts, although it is hard to be patient.
665 Edward StJohn The parties religned in 1968, so that is irrelevant.
Any polling information before 1968 has nothing to do with current politics.
670 Enemy Combatant Brilliant as usual, altough people who do not understand irony, may not understand these, which is a pitty.
27/6: Bludgers, say hello to The Imbecile-appointed SCOTUS capo di tutti capi, Antonin “Ombrello” Scalia. (the selfsame Anton that Stephen Colbert paid out en passant at the 2006 Washington annual press bash)
http://www.higher-yearning.org/uploaded_images/scalia-714640.jpg
(He’s such a lovely man, isn’t he, Bludgers?)
Some of Anton’s recent handiwork:
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55363
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55449
————
Ta, ChrisB, but they get it orright.
and some use stone age shovells to dig tunnells searching sonaring for any message the quilled tabanacles , but those blessed with ObamaroticThink’ , oh the heavens awaits , and for some with special buttie recipes even grater visions of universe meanings are giveth , and so to the Operaa to see the footy of culture
Just came across this while looking for album covers for my mp3’s
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/DJJunglebook/aNOTJUST2.jpg
675 Enemy Combatant.
He/That will become an issue in the run up to the elections. Talk about handing people another issue for the tidal wave. Hope they keep handing us more issues on a plate. The more they do it the bigger the tidal wave.
The current theme at PB POTUS is a stoush between the progressives who support Obama despite some of his less than progressive recent stances, and the progressives who feel these stances are making for a highly compromised candidate.
Two of my favourite commentators are having a fight over the same thing. In the Obama’s supporters corner is the Big O, along with Pancho, jen et al. In the Obameroticspeak corner is Glenn Greenwald along with Ron et al.
I’m reading Greenwald’s “A Tragic Legacy: How a Good vs Evil Mentality Destroyed the Bush Presidency” ATM so I’m siding with Greenwald and Ron.
Keith Olbermann, Glenn Greenwald Feud Over FISA
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/27/keith-olbermann-glenn-gre_n_109572.html
PS Am I the only person who thinks Hillary shouldn’t wear blue dresses anymore? It’s a but icky if you know what I mean…
678 Chris B. Or to put it another way they keep adding fuel to the fire.
GOPper & Allied Energy Solutions: “You consume, we profit!”
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55411
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55404
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55452
#679, Diog, The Irishman Man, Mr. O’Bama, flippin’ floppin’, too frequently and too soon, is the reason why he is not 15% infront of McCain right now. This is not looking good:
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1818386,00.html
He needs the devil with the blue dress on desperately.
Finns
There’s something funny going on with this blue dress thing. First Monica’s subpoenaed blue dress and now Hillary keeps wearing blue dresses. Bill’s favourite author is Walter Mosley who’s first book was Devil in a Blue Dress.
BTW Labor is getting caned in Gippsland with a 7% swing AGAINST it. The moods a bit funereal at the other thread. There’s some soul-searching going on.
Diog, she was looking very good in that blue dress. i was actually rather surprise to see that they were quite touchy touchy at Unity. An attraction of an older woman?
Disaster Capitalism for beginners.
bushslide economy:
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55437/
highwire economy
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/54130/
home economy
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55396
Finns
Have I ever told you that you are one sick puppy?!
With the polar ice-cap in meltdown, Willy Loman, ever-ready to nail a niche market, schlepped his smile and his shoeshine North to Alaska before the rush was on.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55429
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSt0NEESrUA
OH is going Blue ….highest housing loan Faults, UN-empolyment around 6 percent.
Bush got 16 percent of the black vote in 04 Do you really think McSAME will even get 8 percent? Also, Strickland will make sure that east Cleveland, and inner Ciny have plenty of voting machinces. Make the right freaks in Del CO and Holmes CO etc wait out in the rain.
more….
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/06/27/surveyusa_obama_just_ahead_in_ohio.html#disqus_thread
New Campaign for Democrats: Unity.
Obama, Clinton Take Public Step Toward Solidarity.
Besides the message its name sent, the town of Unity also had the distinction of splitting its votes evenly in New Hampshire’s presidential primary, with Clinton and Obama each picking up 107 votes, and it served as a carefully chosen backdrop for transitioning the senator from New York into a substantial role in the Obama campaign.
“I know what we start here in this field in Unity will end on the steps of the Capitol when Barack Obama takes the oath of office as our next president,” Clinton said, speaking to a crowd of 4,000 outside Unity Elementary School on a steamy day.
more…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/27/AR2008062700475.html
I think the blue looks Ok. Hillary does look happy.
If any wants to watch the video here’s a good quality version on The Washington Post site. The clip after is also pretty good.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/06/27/VI2008062702151.html?sid=ST2008062702300#
A Candidate Runs to a G.O.P. Chorus of ‘Don’t’.
None of it bothers Bob Barr, the former Republican congressman from Georgia turned Libertarian Party candidate for president, who gleefully recounted what he says a group of Republicans told him at a recent meeting in Washington: Don’t run.
“ ‘Well, gee, you might take votes from Senator McCain,’ ” Mr. Barr said this week, mimicking one of the complainers, as he sat sipping Coca-Cola in his plush corner office, 12 stories above Atlanta. “They all said, ‘Look, we understand why you’re doing this. We agree with why you’re doing it. But please don’t do it.’ ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/us/politics/28barr.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
Former EPA official to campaign for Obama
Jason Burnett has made a lot of news lately, criticizing the Bush administration for rejecting California’s request for a federal waiver that would have allowed the state to enforce greenhouse gas restrictions.
Burnett, until recently the associate deputy administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, testified last month before a congressional panel about the possible White House role in overruling the EPA staff’s recommendation of the waiver. Since then, Burnett has given numerous interviews on the issue.
Now Burnett is talking with his checkbook, too. After submitting his resignation last month, he donated $3,600 to Democrat Barack Obama’s presidential campaign. That came on top of a $1,000 contribution he made to Obama before rejoining the EPA last year.
more….
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-trailepa28-2008jun28,0,6258223.story
EStJ @ 664
Certainly Obama needs to take one or two of those states or look further down the shopping list at Florida or some of the fly-over states.
Its sounds like the demorats strategy (at least for the 1st Act) is to bring as many states as possible into the contest – rather than an all or nothing campaign for states like Ohio.
So far its working but things are only justing getting warmed up.
Finns
As someone experienced in the sensual side of life, I have a riddle.
If Hillary is an Angel
While George and Bill are Gendarmes
What is Barack Obama?
Sen. Hagel won’t endorse McCain.
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) declined to endorse his party’s likely presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, and said he would consider serving in a Cabinet under Democrat Barack Obama.
But Hagel, who last year considered a White House run as an independent, said he would remain a registered Republican, at least for now.
“I don’t have any plans to endorse any candidate,” Hagel, 61, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital With Al Hunt,” to be broadcast today.
Hagel broke with his party over the war in Iraq, which he called a “catastrophic mistake.” He voted with Democrats to withdraw troops and against President Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq last year.
Hagel criticized McCain for saying that Obama, the Democrats’ likely presidential nominee, misunderstands the war in Iraq and was wrong to oppose the troop buildup. Hagel called McCain’s criticism a “superfluous, gratuitous political comment.”
more…
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-hagel28-2008jun28,0,1089970.story
Chris: Could it be because Senator Hagel is on Obama’s shortlist for VP?
It could be.
and it might not be
But, then I wouldn’t put a Repug on Obamas team.
Some economists and people who follow business think the economy will get worse. When people feel pain in their wallets, the usual political reaction is “throw the bums out.” The effect this year will be magnified because Barack Obama puts the word “change” in every sentence whereas John McCain is running on experience. Oil hit $142 a barrel yesterday before falling back. Not a good sign for a speedy economic recovery.
The Republicans can’t seem to find a candidate in NY-13, Vito Fossella’s Staten Island-based district. A couple more prospects have bowed out. DCCC chairman Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) is playing with their minds there. He just announced a $2.1 million ad buy in New York. (English translation: Hi there, Republicans. Chris here. If you want to run here you’d better have $2 million cash on hand right now before even starting.)
http://www.electoral-vote.com
more…
Lots of polls todays. For President, Obama has increased his lead in Colorado to 5 points. This is within the margin of error, but it is also the fourth consecutive poll in which Obama has been leading. If the state were truly a tossup and these polls were like flipping a coin, Obama has gotten 4 heads in a row. The chances of that are 1 in 16. He has solid leads in Wisconsin and Minnesota. The latter could affect McCain’s choice of Veep. If Minnesota is tied, Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN) could help pull the state over the line. But if McCain is 17 points behind there, Pawlenty won’t be of any use.
Some economists and people who follow business think the economy will get worse. When people feel pain in their wallets, the usual political reaction is “throw the bums out.” The effect this year will be magnified because Barack Obama puts the word “change” in every sentence whereas John McCain is running on experience. Oil hit $142 a barrel yesterday before falling back. Not a good sign for a speedy economic recovery.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Sorry. Pasted the wrong section above.
Only four more hours until Esmeralda (aka Catrina) appears on her broomstick.
“If Hillary is an Angel
While George and Bill are Gendarmes
What is Barack Obama?”
A probationary agnostique.
ESJ
A tug to the left on that pekinese would work wonders…never know where you might end up…what an adventure!
BTW
have you boned up Ron re the ‘monkey’ flip flop & the implications…not a good look; Finns may label it ‘monkeygate’ tsk a tsk…
#694 – Diog, you asked for it:
Finns – As someone experienced in the sensual side of life, I have a riddle.
If Hillary is an Angel
While George and Bill are Gendarmes
What is Barack Obama?
You look like an angel, walk like an angel
Talk like an angel, but I got wise
You’re the devil in disguise
Oh yes you are
The devil in disguise
He rocks (the King that is) and She rocks (according to the Irishman)
Van the Man used to rock
But will Mr. O’Bama rock?
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mO6_EOpY35U
Intrade Market Odds:
65.3 Barry-O , 30.8 Johnny B-B.
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/doonesbury;_ylt=As1FmfxmfyFuRS9ZkK3Dclfb.sgF
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55329
“this here’s a zoo and the keeper ain’t you” *
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55413
Compassionate Privatisation
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55474
“They say the President’s dead but no one can find his head
It’s been missing now for weeks
But no one noticed it he had seemed so fit
and I’m Sick of it”
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5te9f88LYuU
Finns and ecky
Actually, I don’t know the answer to the riddle but the clues refer to the fragrances they wear. Hillary wears Angel, while Bush II and Bill both wear Gendarme.
A couple of people have said Obi wears something limey and gingery, perhaps Navegar.
That was a good INSIDERS special this morning, Cassidy actually had a decent panel of political experts on for once!
Chris: if Obama is winning Colorado in November, it’s a frigging landslide!
On Insiders in from the USA this morning, the Republican representitive said Obama may get up to 58% of the vote. He quickly added it could go the other way as well. He also mentioned that 84% of people want change and that it does not auger well for the Republicans.
710 Progressive. Yes no neocons on the panel. They did the same for Lateline on Friday two balanced representitives. Hewson was thoughtful and logical on the Liberal side. Back to Colarado, yes it looks like it will be devastating for the Repugs. That Repug guy on Insiders was very realistic about their chances.
If they had neocon he would have gone into denile and taken an very unrealist stance.
What I am really interested in is the strategy as to where the Democrats will put their money for the advertising. As I see it the Republicans are in a no win situation, and the Democrats can draw the Republicans money away from vital areas such as Ohio and Florida by spending in Republican areas. Attack their strengths. A real mind game which Democrats cannot lose. The Republicans will already be loosing a lot of sleep over this. I also suspect their will be a huge amount of man power from around the world jetting in to do voluntary work for the Democrats. Resources the Republicans could not expect to match. Already the Democrats have a huge advantage in man power, add to that the overseas contingent and Bobs your Uncle! None of this will show up in the polls till the final weeks.
One thing that definitely will not show up in the polling in the south, is that when the black vote rolls up in their thousands, white racists are NOT going to stand in the queues with black people. They may not even go to vote just at the thought of standing in queues with black people. This will have a major impact on the voting.
679- Diogenes -
that’s a fair assessment of where we are at- although I would not class Ron as a progressive.
But really we are talking about shades of grey here- look at the alternative FFS.
I have no doubt there will be endless examples of Obama letting down the left- par for the course in an election. However unless he nukes Iran with no provocation I think he is ptetty much sticking to the values he hs espoused all along. There will be lots of discussion about how these should be implemented, but basically I want the guy to win and erradicate the Repubs. And yes, there will be compromises.
I’ve found what is ailing some of our most dedicated Obama slammers…
http://www.slate.com/id/2194317/
Q: How do you win an election in an economically depressed state with malarkey like this going on?
“Newsweek is set to publish a highly embarrassing report on Sen. John McCain, revealing that the McCains have failed to pay taxes on their beach-front condo in La Jolla, California, for the last four years and are currently in default, The Huffington Post has learned.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/28/mccains-failed-to-pay-tax_n_109785.html
One of the advantages of the bruising Democratic primary season is that these sorts of moments are overwhelmingly going to be coming out of the old man’s camp from now on.
Bill continues to do all he can to hamstring Hillary: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/28/18269/1459/624/543465
From the London Tele:
“A senior Democrat who worked for Mr Clinton has revealed that he recently told friends Mr Obama could “kiss my ass” in return for his support.”
Huff:
“Bill Clinton wants Obama to reach out to him as a mentor, a guide who can lead Obama through the labyrinth of a tough presidential election. “Bill wants to be honored, to return to the role of Democratic elder statesman, and get rid of this image of him as a pol willing to do anything to win,” said one associate.”
718 Pancho It just keeps getting better. That will surely move into the top tens as an issue. As if Obama needs anymore issues. He can at least afford a couple of stumbles up his sleeve.
CB at 715:
“They may not even go to vote just at the thought of standing in queues with black people. This will have a major impact on the voting.”
Say What!! Mebbe you right mah man ’bout a POtential shortage o’ white people in Southern poll lines come NOvembah 5.
‘Less o’ course dem white folk come in a bunch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R16gPne9bc
Now git yo ass ovah heah, boy, and give ol’ ecky a terrorist jab!
Nuclear power is on the table with climate change being at saturation point. Ever wondered what Chernobyl looks like? Here’s some footage set to East Hastings, which is one of Godspeed You! Black Emperor’s most famous tracks. It doesn’t get more apocalyptic and bleak, yet poignant and beautiful than this.
28 days later chernobyl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnigFmQTC4s
721 Enemy Combatant Well said, I used to enjoy that movie. Especially playing the train crash at the end in slow motion.
In Barack Obama’s presidential campaign, the mantra of the faithful has been that a child shall lead them – but few were taking that literally.
Now, though, they have 14-year-old Joshua Steele of Studio City, who is too young to vote but not too young to show them the way.
In the five months of the just-completed historic Democratic presidential primary campaign, Joshua personally made no fewer than 1,100 telephone calls on behalf of the now presumptive party nominee to voters in several states holding primaries as well as Guam.
more….
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=11745
A New Political Geography.
Role Reversals in Virginias Reflect National Shifts.
When Sen. Barack Obama chose the Nissan Pavilion in the outer suburbs of Northern Virginia to kick off his general-election campaign, one of the 10,000 supporters there was David Bruzas, who recently moved to the fastest-growing part of a state that is moving rapidly away from its Republican past.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/28/AR2008062802124.html
“The Lincoln whom Obama admires in The Audacity of Hope is the politician who was not an abolitionist but, when faced with a decision, made the correct one, however reluctantly, and then used this reluctance to bring the Union with him, step by step.”
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21611
http://xkcd.com/438/
http://xkcd.com/428/
CULVER CITY, Calif. — The video blasted across the Internet, drawing political blood from Senator John McCain within a matter of days.
Robert Greenwald, a director, takes aim at John McCain from Culver City, Calif.
Produced here in a cluttered former motel behind the Sony Pictures lot, it juxtaposed harsh statements about Islam made by the Rev. Rod Parsley with statements from Mr. McCain praising Mr. Parsley, a conservative evangelical leader. The montage won notice on network newscasts this spring and ultimately helped lead Mr. McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee, to reject Mr. Parsley’s earlier endorsement.
In previous elections, an attack like that would have come from party operatives, campaign researchers or the professional political hit men who orbit around them.
But in the 2008 race, the first in which campaigns are feeling the full force of the changes wrought by the Web, the most attention-grabbing attacks are increasingly coming from people outside the political world. In some cases they are amateurs operating with nothing but passion, a computer and a YouTube account, in other cases sophisticated media types with more elaborate resources but no campaign experience.
Lots more….
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/us/politics/29opposition.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Another Repug defector to the Good Guys. Another commentator points out that the Repugs are stinking up the joint. If Powell endorses Obama, there’s gonna be a run on the bank. Lat one out turns off the lights.
Hunter was fired as U.S. Chamber of Commerce chief economist in 1993 when he would not swallow Clinton administration policy, and he later joined Jack Kemp at Empower America (ghostwriting Kemp’s column). Explaining his support for the uncompromisingly liberal Obama, Hunter blogged on June 6: “The Republican Party is a dead rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of ‘Weekend With Bernie,’ handcuffed to a corpse.”
The Obamacons Who Worry McCain
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062501942.html
Trust me, this is VERY FCUKING BAD.
You may recall I warned a while back that the first sign of genocide in Zimbabwe would be the displacement of pro-MDC supporters. Leaked Joint Operations Command minutes show that supporters of Morgan Tsvangirai, the opposition leader, “will all be internally displaced. The target number is two million supporters”.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4232386.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55397/
“Trust me, this is VERY FCUKING BAD.”
I’m afraid you’re right, Dio.
“internally displaced”, what an ugly euphemism for systematic cold blooded murder!
And the UN are just going to sit on their hands like they did with Rwanda. There is no significant commercial gain for “US interests” so Team Imbecile will do sfa. Wonder if BHO will have the balls to make an issue of it before it’s too late. I have a notion that BHO would gain huge worldwide support and improve his chances of getting a good international hearing after The Imbeciles criminally wasteful years as POTUS if he acts with conviction.
After all, if we’re to believe the gloss:
“The Lincoln whom Obama admires in The Audacity of Hope is the politician who was not an abolitionist but, when faced with a decision, made the correct one, however reluctantly, and then used this reluctance to bring the Union with him, step by step.”
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21611
Have a look at how many staes are turning pink one that I never thought would turn even pink is Texas. This is big boys.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
In the senate have a look at the amount of blue states and states turning pink.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Senate/Maps/Jun28-s.html
Now have a look at a graph that shows the current trend vs 2004.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/ec_graph-2008.html
Still along way to go!
“The people saw through him, but he had powerful friends. Three million more of the American people voted for Gore, but five foul-weather friends in the Supreme Court overruled them, and a brother who was Governor of Florida both times, both times when it counted, when miscounting counted, and helped out where he could.”
When the old bastard keeps a handbrake on his hyperbole, he still turns a more than passable essay.
http://2cents.dailyreckoning.com/viewtopic.php?t=31420&sid=3084935583b313a0b028ca6856b0f8ef
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/billday;_ylt=ArL6iOtCL40tCUAfRpnfINnX.sgF
Double-Bunger!!
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55473
————
Yes, CB, so far so good, but them varmint terrorists could get up to anything in the next four months. Johnny Bomb-Bomb even reckons that it would aid his campaign. Will the home of the brave be able to protect itself without declaring Martial Law? Remember terrorists hate America because Americans love Freedom so much.
GG & FINNS
Just got home from a 10 hour spelling class so lets away on a thoughts voyage A new ‘grna butterflyThink rcipe video must ave arrived Having piercd the Obamabot defences with just a few salvo’s of de mans ‘change from’ flip flops of regressive principles , the new thought control grna buttieflyThink video just in the stores now says all principles may now be junked in persuit of victry So the faithful can never be really disillusioned now to Nov by de mans bus run overs !! Hel , the video even says its a Ruddy mark 11 , so ticpical pf biased FL thought patterns against the ALP But for the objective , the ALP is a Party of ‘executives’ and MP’s , the Ommy is a one man Party executive When Kimmy went in 2006 , the ALP executives and MP’s had their ‘left’ policys decided , & all were ‘left’ policys , so tounge tied Kimmy could hve tackled the rodent on 2007 with the sam ‘left’ policys as the Ruddy did They were , and ar , not the sam as either the Greens or the FL ‘left’ policys , but thats not the pointy , as we can disagrres between different ”left Partys policys But Ruddy took Kimmys policys to fight the rodent because they wer & are ALP Party policys , rather than a one man Ommy candidate Party The ALP salesamn changed from kimmy to Kevin , Kevin looked & sounded concervative , and non threatening , and no tounge tied so clear messae , and ‘me 2′ to avoid the irrelevant wedgies , an image perseption for the swinging voters But the core ALP principles & policysd never changed in what Ruddy promised & spoke Same happenedd from Hayden to Hawke , a salesman change People here obviously looked at the visuals an did not listen to Ruddy’s words But Ommy , the non ALP Party structure , & instead the one men Party is , except Iraq , ben speaking non ‘left’ policys , & not just on universel Healthcare & Kyoto Thats what yu’ll get from Ommy in goveremnt So throw away your thought videoThinks Now to those other policys the ‘vague’ policys , well invested interet groups will get him on those Sure he is a change from Bush , thats not real hard is it , but what a ‘change to’ 1999 USA , maybe I just made the Decemba 2009 videoThink headed ‘oh but at least he is ‘a change from Bush’ , and Ommy is not doing anything cause he’s still cleaning up Bush’s work Now I respect Bobby Brown & Kevvy Rudd may have different respective ‘left’ policys , but there respective different ‘left’ cores principles policys have not changed , no matter who the Party saleman is , but regarding Ommy , me and the bus just don’t know where the core is
Ronnie, am doing the Cat woman 4am dash here. But i got my excuse, Spain 1 – Germany 0.
[but regarding Ommy , me and the bus just don’t know where the core is] – yes the Irishman Mr. O’Bama is getting a pasting for his flippn’ and floppn’ and the so called move to the centre strategy. The lefts, the activists and the liberals are spewing with him. Where is Da Man? they ask, where is the Da Man.
Since becoming the Dem Nominee, Da Man is a poor pale shadow of his former self. He should be bold and carried on with his message of change and new politics. Especially as McCain cannot seem to rise above the dead man walking pace. He should be crushing McCain right now. Instead, he seems to be giving McCain oxygen everyday by doing a very good impersonator of Kerry Mark 2.
As Hillary was rightly occupying the centre. she is looking true, better and truer each day. His flip/floppn will come back and haunt him.
Hillary Clinton is the is the William H Seward of the 21st century, exept obviuosly without Sewards honesty, idealism and integrity.
Barr: GOP says one thing and does another.
Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr, who has some Republicans worried that he might take votes from their nominee, on Sunday accused the GOP and its standard-bearer Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) of saying one thing and doing another.
“What’s wrong with John McCain is symptomatic of what’s wrong with the Republican Party in these first years of the 21st century,” said Barr, a former Republican congressman from Georgia. “They talk one thing but do something different, and that’s become very obvious to the American people.”
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/barr-gop-says-one-thing-and-does-another-2008-06-29.html
The Early Word: Web of Attacks.
Perhaps the most widely remembered attack of the 2004 election came from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a 527 group that produced a television ad questioning Senator John Kerry’s military service in the Vietnam War.
The Times’s Jim Rutenberg reports today that as the activities of independent advocacy groups decline, increasingly computer-savvy individuals with a little bit of time on their hands are taking their place.
more…
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/the-early-word-web-of-attacks/
Burnishing Credentials, Obama Will Visit the Middle East and Europe.
WASHINGTON — Senator Barack Obama will make his first international trip as a presidential candidate this summer, his campaign announced Saturday, traveling to the Middle East and Europe in an effort to bolster his foreign policy experience in his fall campaign against Senator John McCain.
Mr. Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, will visit Jordan, Israel, Germany, France and Britain. On a separate trip, he also is planning to tour Iraq and Afghanistan, although aides declined to disclose details or the dates of his travel for security reasons.
more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/us/politics/29trip.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
McCain’s unorthodox campaign.
Such seemingly contrary tactics as focusing on national security and foreign affairs when voters are most concerned about the domestic economy have provoked consternation among fellow Republicans.
This week, when Barack Obama campaigns in Ohio and Colorado, John McCain will be visiting Colombia and Mexico. It’s an unusual path for McCain to follow. But even more, it’s a risky strategy for his presidential campaign.
Not since Richard M. Nixon traveled to all 50 states in 1960, fulfilling a pledge he came to regret, has a presidential candidate followed an itinerary that appears so at odds with his political needs.
more….
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccain29-2008jun29,0,1575201.story
Very Retiring Republicans.
The prospects of a Republican revival in the foreseeable future are exceedingly poor. So 30 of them, including some of the party’s brightest stars, are retiring. Four have already quit, resigning rather than finishing out their final term.
This is a serious problem for Republicans in the 2008 election. The retirees have created an unusually large number of open Republican seats, exciting Democrats. Defeating incumbents is difficult, but open seats are easier for the opposition party to win. Here are the stories of four Republicans who are retiring.
more…
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/279gbneg.asp
America is falling apart.
Growing backlog of repairs to roads, sewers and other basics threatens economy, livability.
America is falling apart. Literally.
From highways to bridges to plumbing to telecommunications, we are not keeping up with our national maintenance chores.
Our highways are crumbling. Just maintaining them as they are would cost up to 40 cents a gallon more in gas taxes over the next five years.
And that would do nothing to meet the increased demand; highway travel and hours stuck in traffic have both grown by about 25 percent in the past 10 years.
more….
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/
McAuliffe: Bill Clinton and Obama to talk within 48 hours.
Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe assured CNN’s Candy Crowley that former President Bill Clinton and presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama will be discussing Clinton’s role in the campaign within the next two days.
“I believe that in the next 24 to 48 hours they will talk and off we will go,” McAuliffe stated on Sunday’s Late Edition.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/29/mcauliffe-bill-clinton-and-obama-to-talk-within-48-hours/
Democrat with military background assails McCain’s credentials.
McCain’s experience in Vietnam, where he was a prisoner of war for five years, has seemed at times almost to grant him invulnerability to criticism of his security background. But on Sunday he was assailed by a fellow military man, a highly decorated one who was once the NATO supreme commander.
more….
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/29/america/campaign.php
For many swing voters, Obama has yet to seal the deal.
Janell Mader and Sheryl Randoll are undecided American voters, and Barack Obama has to show them he has the right stuff to lead the country.
“Most of my life, my decisions have been based on morals and family values,” said Mader, a 32-year-old homemaker. “Now, all of a sudden, our country is, like, turned upside down with all these economic issues.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/29/america/letter.php
More to 744.
It isn’t that these citizens dislike McCain. When Hart asked them which of the candidates they would prefer to carry the American flag into the Beijing Olympics or to lead a lost party out of the forest, overwhelmingly they said McCain. Even partisan Democrats admire him.
They just don’t identify him with any issues except the Iraq war, and the Republican Party carries a huge burden. When Bush comes up – a majority of these people voted for him four years ago – the contempt is palpable, with words like “horrible” and “worst ever” rolling off their tongues.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/29/america/letter.php
745 The above article gives an indication of how people feel, especially uncomitted voters. It is a matter of how long before they make the decission. They may way until the last minute as the voters did with Regan. Or they may get swept up with the euphoria as it move through the country. Eventually it will show up in the polls.
The sound of one blogger clapping?
The sound of one gardener digging?
Just heard a funny story via the Glastonbury festival. Jay Z (of Obama’s mp3 player and the inspiration of his ’shoulder flick’) is headlining, much to the conternation of Noel Gallagher who claimed that this wasn’t the place for hip-hop acts. He walked on stage doing a solo version of ‘wonderwall’.
Then, midway through his set, he got going about the US and was doing some sort of freestyling while projecting a huge picture of Dubya behind him. He then cut to a picture of Obama and tens of thousands of people exploded into a massive roar. The implications of an Obama presidency for international politics and the US image around the world are phenomenal.
Pancho at 749
I suspect we will see similar things when Obama does his European tour – and I’m guessing that the US media will give things like crowd size and enthusiasm some good coverage.
Pancho and Catrina,
Now everybody join hands and cry, “Oh Lawdy, Kumbayah”.
11 posts in a row – wow.
Surely even KirriR in his prime never matched this.
GG – You cynical boomer – not wanting to share your sixtiesesque enthusiasm with the kids of today! In spite of you oldies preference for’ I’m still grumpy cos Clinton lost’, that sort of reaction on the other side of the world is pretty cool.
Dolly’s column on Zimbabwe seems to he a tad self-serving but is enlightening. The reason the US don’t like the ICC is that they know if they send other coubntries there, that they could well follow.
Three years ago the then New Zealand foreign minister, Phil Goff, and I decided we ought to do more to try to get change in Zimbabwe. We approached the British and American governments to try to get them to introduce a resolution into the United Nations Security Council to send Mugabe and his henchmen to the International Criminal Court to face murder charges.
The Americans wouldn’t do it because they don’t like the ICC.
The British wouldn’t because they thought it was too confrontational and the resolution wouldn’t succeed anyway. China and Russia would veto it.
Downer attacks UN for shirking Zimbabwe
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23942454-5006301,00.html
Catrina @748 or one potty…?
Pancho,
It seems that Obama is not just a naughty boy, he is the Messiah, eh?
Nah, GG, just a popular antidote to a decade of Bush and extreme US arrogance. I can’t see how disaffected youth (even British ones) being excited about politics and a US election can be a bad thing. Unless of course, for some reason, one has a bruised ego about a prediction that went awry on a web page and hence wishes to nitpick.
Pancho,
Remind me, who rammed those planes into the the Twin Towers.
Rhetoric gets you only so far. One of the reasons these “British yoof” are able to lounge around in a paddock enjoyoing the excesses of modern life is “the extreme US arrogance” of standing up for democracy and against criminal Islamo Fascists.
Oh please GG, you’re smarter than that.
GG, sounds like something Dick Cheney would say.
GG – I’ll let the historical rediculousness of referring to ‘Islamo Fascists’ slide. Even the morons who coined that phrase have now realised how ill-conceived it was. This is a good snippit, if you want to follow:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×2012264
You know the debate has turned moronic when US history begins at 9/11, and kids are cheering Obama because of the heroism of the Bush admin. Not bait I’m gonna take.
Timely though GG – here’s Seymour Hersh with a feelgood story for you: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh
“Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program.”
GG
I love that one. “The extreme US arrogance” of standing up for democracy.
ROTFLOL!!!
That is one of the funniest things you’ve ever said.
Pancho,
It was you used the decade long concept in your 757. All I have done is put some perspective in to what happened during the ten years of US arrogance. It is vey hard to do a proper analysis if you conveniently exclude or discount the most significant event that occurred during the time period under question.
GG – I stand by it. 9/11 was not the fissure in history that Cheney and his mob want us to believe it was. Neither, in spite of John Ashcroft’s chronic ignorance of twentieth century history, was it ‘the most massive hate-crime ever committed’. It remains a tragedy, but one brutally and cynically exploited by a regime who had designs on Iraq and the ME for a long time. The destruction of the US standing in the world post 9/11 was a response to that act, but it was a chosen and disasterous response. None of the aims stated publicly at the end of 2001 have been achieved (except Wolfowitz’s claim at the end of September that war with Iraq would follow).
By the way, I mentioned the positive reaction to Obama at a music festival in the UK, in contrast to the Bush years. It was you who jumped in with the Giuliani bullshit.
The stand on the shore looking out to sea, but they can’t see the tidal wave 100 feet away.
“The destruction of the US standing in the world post 9/11 was a response to that the actions of the Bush Admin.”
I’m clumsily trying to make the point above that the US actions were a chosen response. Since the open letter to President Clinton in 98, signed by Wolfowitz, PNAC cronies and supported by much of the DLC, hawks in Washington were itching for a chance to get at Iraq. If there is an abuse of anyone that died in 9/11 going on, it’s by the use of this act for political puposes (in the loosest sense of the term).
Shoud be very powerful images beaming into the USA from his European tour. The Repugs will go into denial and dismiss it out of hand, what else can they do? But boy will it destroy their morale. Remember what coverage McCain got? Bugger all.
766 Chris B. Typo should be they stand on the shore.
If Obama goes to Iraq and Afganistan and receives a massive welcome from the troops who aren’t allowed to be political, that will be another blow.
Pancho,
“9/11 was not the fissure in history that Cheney and his mob want us to believe it was”.
Absolute rubbish! Next you will be saying that 9/11 was produced and directed by the Bush Adminsitration.
Nit picking seems to be a major past time on here. After all they haven’t got anything else.
When you struggle to get any issue in the top twenty, nit picking is all you can fall back on.
For those interested Mark over on LP has reviewed Jerry H Hough’s book “Changing Party Coalitions: The Mystery of the Red State-Blue State Alignment ”
Among other things, what Hough “is trying to do is to expose some of the myths that we tend to create about past political patterns and partisan alignments – based on our present understanding of voter motivation and party image.”
Well worth a read.
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/30/beyond-the-red-state-blue-state-dichotomy/
9/11 was chicken$hit compared to many events that have happened. 3000 people were killed in one day (about as many US citizens died on 9/11 from smoking). 800,000 Rwandans were macheted to death in 100 days while the US and UN looked away. Some perspective is needed. The US has grossly over-reacted and done incalculably more harm than good due to its simplistic Manichean thinking.
The response and the way they handle 9/11 will result in the destruction of the Republicans. If they had handled it properly they could have lived off the good will for a long time.
But the Repugs are very, very, short sighted people. That’s why they need to completely rebuild.
Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists, hey GG?
Of course I don’t believe the Bush Admin produced the attack. But nor do I believe that it was ‘the most massive hate-crime ever committed’ to borrow the then Attorney General’s response. There have previously been attacks on the US, even on the WTC. Not in the magnitude of 9/11, granted, but in each case the response of the executive government was markedly different to that of the Bush Administration. Its chosen response squandered the goodwill the world felt towards the US in the aftermath of the event, and the aggressive ideological and militaristic overtones wasted many lives and money. 9/11 has been overshadowed by a war of choice, which has proven the worst foreign policy disaster in the history of the US.
But I know we are off topic here, and not going to get anywhere if one-liners are to be your response.
GG – I think one must draw very clear distinctions between “9/11 the event”, and “9/11 the opportunity”. I also agree with Diogenes, the 300 9/11 death is equivalent to just 40-50 days of regular shooting by handgun deaths across domestic USA.
However – it was an opportunity not to be missed.
Most hated crime ever. So where does that put the 20 million deaths of Russians in World War II. Pearl Harbour, Millions of Chinese slaughted by the Japanese. Stalins Purges. Shall I go on?
Death squads in South America, over 30,000. Oh, sorry. They were only killing lefties.
The Holocaust?
Pancho,
You really seem to struggle and squirm when your own words are quoted back at you.
You now seem to be postulating that although 9/11 happened, it wasn’t that important.
If so, you have no idea about the real world.
Something big is brewing over at the NYT according to Matty Drudge.
Red type story
SOURCES: BUSH ANGER AT COMING NEW YORK TIMES STORY DETAILING HUNT FOR BIN LADEN… The newspaper planning to expose internal debate surrounding ‘highly classified Pentagon order’; Special Operations forces hunt al-Qaida leader in mountains of Pakistan… DEVELOPING….
Then there’s the Spanish inquisition. Whoops, sorry, non believers. And all the religious purges throughout the middle ages.
Chris B,
“Most hated crime ever”. Not my words. Do not try to verbal me with your banality. Perhaps you copied it from somewhere else.
GG
perhaps you did not realise that in FL land , 9/11 in September 2001 happened after the Iraq invaion in 2003 Perhaps you may not have realized the Bali bombings that happened on 12/10/2002 were after after the 2003 Iraq invasion In fact according to michael moore’s shaby diocs , Bush & the CIA invaded the Towers The World TV audiance all saw terrorism , unprovoked , able to strike anywhere but in the context of the last 10 years hardley an important event as the Panche says
And here’s the story. Seems Bush II is none too happy that OBL is making him look like a fool. He put in place strategies to catch OBL. The NYT seems to have printed Top Secret documents which have tipped off al Qaeda about the US strategy. Could get very ugly.
Amid Policy Disputes, Qaeda Grows in Pakistan
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/washington/30tribal.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1214794036-7CFN7J3HGdnECrJsJ8dmsA
784 Diogenes Maybe, they want to catch him before the election. Someone let it slip to spoil it for them.
Here comes his backup. Gee I never would have seen that coming.
GG, never have I said that ‘although 9/11 happened, it wasn’t that important.’
A more cerebral take on the quote, (which I am happy to reproduce:“9/11 was not the fissure in history that Cheney and his mob want us to believe it was”) in the context of all that I have written above is that perhaps I disagree with the neo-con take on, and response to the event.
I have written a little on the US response to this act, and the outrageuos rhetoric it used. I’d be happy to send you some bits for context tonight if you’re still swallowing simplistic dichotomies then.
Speaking of ‘the real world’, does the US “standing up for democracy and against criminal Islamo Fascists” exist there, or just in hyperbolic responses to comments about music festivals?
Cheers.
I’m badly loosing this argument someone come and agree with me.
786 Greensborough Growler. Did I mention anyones name?
Pancho,
Your 778 creates the impression a more measured bureaucratic response to 9/11 was more appropriate. Just the sort of view a “shiny arse” academic with no connection to real people might propose.
9/11 is far and away the most important act of terror/war that has occurred in the last decade (your context). The aftermath has dominated US and world politics since it occurred. Really, any other view is just revisionist nonsense.
Chris B,
Your quote was from Pancho’s 778 which I have just re read. Apologies.
“Your 778 creates the impression a more measured bureaucratic response to 9/11 was more appropriate. Just the sort of view a “shiny arse” academic with no connection to real people might propose.”
Also the sort of view that the current Secretary of Defence, Robert Gates, might propose. Or much of the Bush I foreign policy establishment, including Baker and Hamilton. Or anyone that thinks glorifying two-bit ‘martyrs’ by placing them on equal footing with the US in a war for the civilised world is a bad idea. Like my favourite Catholic conservative Colonel Anderw Bacevich:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070423/bacevich
“When President Bush in September 2001 launched the United States on a global war against terrorism, he scornfully abandoned the law-enforcement approach to which previous administrations had adhered. To all but the most militant true believers, it has become increasingly evident that in doing so Bush committed an error of the first order.
Underlying Bush’s declaration of war were two assumptions: first, that terrorism is subject to defeat; second, that military power, aggressively employed, offers the shortest road to victory. The Damadola incident only adds to the mountain of evidence calling both of those assumptions into question.
As most Americans have come to understand, terrorism, as currently employed in Washington’s political lexicon, is a code word. Seemingly referring to a tactic, it actually alludes to the violent Islamic radicals who perpetrated 9/11 and who if given the chance will attack us again.
In dealing with the radicals themselves, the old adage applies: it’s kill or be killed. On this point there can be little room for debate and none for compromise. But for the killing to be purposeful, it must occur selectively: to employ violence indiscriminately is to replenish the ranks of al-Qaeda and its spawn faster than we can deplete them. That way lies not security but bankruptcy and exhaustion.”
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_02_27/article1.html
Pancho,
Can only repeat,
“9/11 is far and away the most important act of terror/war that has occurred in the last decade (your context).”
Why is that, ‘my context’ again GG? I’m not really that into moral equivalency arguments, so I’m happy to let that comment sit there looking as clever as it does. The article at 797 particularly is worth a look.
Pancho,
The first sentence undermines your whole thrust.
“When President Bush in September 2001 launched the United States on a global war against terrorism”.
Once again, are you implying the Bush administration plowed those planes in to those buildings?
Pancho,
Your 757.
“just a popular antidote to a decade of Bush and extreme US arrogance”
That was the context you chose.
Diogenoski and others ,
so 3,000 at 9/11 was not a big death number they were office buildings , population densaty 10 tim a house size , you got 220 floors of office buiding how manys peoples normally were working there at any 1 time at 10 in morning
The low death toll was a flukey thing Someone here must know the 220 floor figue , what the toll could have been and really should hhave been , for this insignifiant hisrtoical event
Interseting how it has gone way off topic, the absolute thrashing of the Republicans. I suppose we can use the original root cause of all their problems. Bush and 911.
Anything to distract us from the tidal wave.
GG, just wondering what your thoughts are on the 9/11 -> invasion of Iraq -> takeover of oil infrastructure and commercial operations in Iraq. … has to do with a war on terrorism?
GG – Again I stand by it. This is why Obama is so embraced by youth who have seen a unilateral approach to politics by the US for their adult lives, and cheered at his image in Glastonbury. The promise of a few big ticket changes – greater multilateral engagement, an acknowledgement of the environment as a concern, and an historic candidate in just who he is.
Obviously you see something different to what I do in the Bush admin’s actions over the past (near) decade and the shadowy ‘clash of civilisations’ we are now engaging in. Although, again, I think there is more than a little fishing in your stance.
Ron
I respectfully disagree. al Qaeda killed many more than in their wildest dreams. They didn’t expect the buildings to collapse. In fact, the buildings were built to withstand a plane flying into them. The attacks were meant to more symbolic than anything. Terrorists have always been trying to attack the WTC for some reason.
I fear people who cheer politicians. And I seriously worry about politicians who are cheered.
In some people’s minds, Obama is not the second coming; he is the first.
Obama will win the election (and that is a very good thing). But do not expect the US to suddenly be a different country as a result of that. What I hope for is health care changes and a more coherent focus on foreign policy. Beyond that, perhaps a little bit of environmental window dressing (can’t be too drastic, though, as Rudd is in the process of discovering – people want a cleaner world, but they do not want to pay anything for the privilege).
For Heaven’s sake!!
What happened on 9/11 was appalling. What the US did in response was also terrible. It’s not a competition for who is the worst – both parties have acted with unbelievable violence and with the belief that god is on their side. Or in the case of the US – Halliburtons.
Surely the point now is to try and change the dynamic between the West and the Middle East to prevent a further escalation of hatred and violence. Which, in a nutshell is why I support Obama as the candidate who appears to offer the best chance of bringing about this change.
Ronster
About 50,000 people worked in the WTC.
What specifically do you think that Obama will change?
Catrina,
Fair questions and without too much detail.
Opposed 9/11.
Opposed invasion of Iraq. Agree it was primarily about oil.
However, the real question is how the mess is resolved now five years after the event. Not sure if Obama’s approach is better than McCains in the long term. US broke it, now they have to fix it.
Surge is reportedly very successful atm. Jury out for a few more months.
War on terror seems to be abating now that Muslims have worked out that OBL and his merry men were killing more muslims than infidels.
Encouraged by cease fire in ME between Palestinians and Israel.
Iran is a big unresolved problem.
Regardless, a weak or isolationist US is not a recipe for world peace and harmony. I believe that the US is the greatest force for good in the world. Remember, we’d all be blogging in Japanese if not for them.
809 David Gould. With the defeat of the filibuster (the ability to stall legislation by continually talking) and introduction one vote one value, which is coming. The U.S. for the first time have the ability to make brand new laws. This will have flow on effect around the world. The only other time a fillibuster proof senate was in 1968. But even then some conservative Democrats crossed the floor. Particularly in matters of civil rights. 1968 was also when the two parties realigned.
David Gould @ 809, Not sure what you mean, I stood in the main function hall at Suncorp Statium on the 24th of November, and when Kevin Rudd made his appearance, myself and about 500 other people cheered, and damn did I cheer. Don’t see how it diminished either me or Kevin Rudd
This will result in increased efficiency in the U.S congress, and much speedier implimentation of laws.
Are you that confident that the Dems will have the numbers to defeat the filibuster? The polls do not seem to reflect such a massive change. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely. Further, are you that confident that even if they do they will still not have to contend with extremely conservative Democrats? Look at the Democrat who won recently. He is so right wing that Cheney looks like a Green by comparison.
Which laws do you think that a Democrat controlled Senate would introduce and in what way would those laws change the US and by extension the world?
Hear hear Jen. The September 11 (I hate the Americanised reference to the date) terrorist attacks were one of the most significant moments of the last 50 years, and the US were well within their rights to invade Afghanistan (and they had the support of most of the world in doing so). It’s when the Bush adminstration stretched the truth to make the case for war in Iraq that worldwide goodwill towards the US began to evaporate.
Timbo,
If you cheer the mere appearance of another human being, you frighten me.
813 Greensborough Growler. “US is the greatest force for good in the world”. Will be come November, at the moment it is on the dark side.
819 David Gould. So what do you say to those that cheer the Queen?
Or the Pope?
(Although I will admit to cheering when the Ghostbusters climbed out of the hole in the ground in front of the building. However, I think that I was cheering their survival, but I could be kidding myself. I am as prone as any other person to crowd emotions.)
Or George Bush?
Chris B,
I fear them. I thought that I had made that clear with my general comments.
Those who elevate another person above the rest in such a manner make me afraid because they are the kinds of people who have the potential be manipulated into doing pretty much anything in the name of the person that they cheer.
824 Chris B. Sorry. That was an oxymoron.
Sorry. Moron.
People who cheer George Bush do not scare me, as I assume that they are being ironic.
What about Humphrey B. Bear? Bananas in Pajamas or The Wiggles?
Diogenoski ,
50,000 , is that per Tower ?
By the way , the world trade Centre was bombed from the basment in 93 by a shadowry group Now if you go through the transcraps of scientific evidance of the later trials , in there is in typiccal foolish US poor national security protection , in detail how & the heeat to bring them down So bin ladin may say he is allegedly surpprised and all US pollies may want to forget the info is in the public arean , but US experts gave out valuable info before Billy Clinton left office , but then publicity of that buggers up everyones narratives
Elle McPherson?
By the way, speedier implementation of laws is not necessarily a good thing. It depends very much on the laws. And I prefer a long committee evaluation, personally, so that fewer errors are made.
For Elle McPherson, don’t you mean leer?
As to the Wiggles and Humphrey, children being children do not frighten me. It is when adults are children that my worries emerge.
Ron@830 – we’re in agreement!
I can see them all now standing on the decks of the Titanic. It’s not an iceburg, it’s a snowflake, and please don’t mention the iceburg.
DG
I cheered Torres this monrning, I’m so ashamed.
832 David Gould. Till next year they have not been able to have that.
This is the first time that the congress will work properly.
Chris B @ 835,
Your blaming the Jews for the sinking of the Titanc is disgsuting.
Hold on, I take it back Ron, I misread your 830. I think. I’m not over such details. I do agree that the US could have done better with its 93 (and 98) intel…but we’re way off topic now.
too late , i’ve copy pasted it
dogb,
Cheering at sports worries me far less, as people tend to cheer performance rather than performers. Perhaps this is because sports performance is more easily measured?
Still, for your own sense of well being, I will try to fear you at least a little bit.
Chris B at 837
Congress has had many committees into legislation over the last little while, so I am unsure what you are referring to.
You are awfully easily frightened DG. If a little public emotion or exitement at the political process frightens you, you need to lighten up, we are hardly talking about the rallies at nuremburg
Timbo,
Given that US political rallies are built pretty much from the propaganda lessons learnt from Nuremburg (we studied this specifically in my marketing diploma) I am unsure that the distinction is valid in that specific sense. The message is certainly different; how people are emotionally manipulated is not.
Growler!
-you are such a bugger.
Jen,
Wrong religion, if you don’t mind please.
Davi G -
in theory i agree with you, but I am also subject to heightened emotions in a crowd situation and have been known to be somewhat undecorous when some musician or other was in stage. Positively delerious at the Stones in ‘95, and the Waifs can get me on my feet.
As for politicians – well, it depends. John Howard never did it for me, but Obama…
it’s how people express their excitement and sense of shared experience. Sometimes it’s dangerous (Nuremberg is a good example) and sometimes it’s joyous- an encore for example. Either way, it’s human.
Which religion would you prefer ?
DG as I said, cheered Kevid Rudd during his victory speech last year, my emotions, not manipulated. I don’t see why emotion should be left out of politics
Jen,
Which one you selling?
Timbo
The reason emotion should be left out of politics as much as is humanly possible is that our emotions are not good guides as to the best course of action to take, given our goals and circumstances.
Jen,
I agree that it is human, and can be a lot of fun. Specifically in the political context, though, it is not something that I can ever be comfortable with.
Some nasty stuff happening in Orlando.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/29/anti-obama-vandalism-city_n_109834.html
I hope this is an isolated incident but something inside me suggests that we will see more of this as we move towards the general election event.
Gee, I love this change politics that Obama wants us all to believe.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/06/wesley_clark_obamas_hatchet_ma.asp
DG, Yes of course that the ‘right answer’ but emotion gets involved regardless, I don’t nessecarily think that is a bad thing. I Show plebtly of emotion over politics (usually anger), I assure you they are my emotions, quite happy to own them. Why would you even get involved in politics or indeed anything if you didn’t have some sort of emotional response to it.
Who let George play with spray paint?
Growler- starting my own – all donations tax deductable.
HQ Dunk Island.
OMG- it’s VeteranGate!
puhleese
- they really are desperate.
GG, Bush being a draft dodger wasn’t relevant to the Repugs, why should McCain being a war hero.
844 David Gould. Committees don’t mean a thing if one party blocks the bills, which is done by the fillibuster. That’s why the U.S. system has been so inefficiant till now.
Timbo,
I am glad that you assume that they are your emotions, completely immune from manipulation by others. It makes it much easier to manipulate you.
Seriously, however, emotional responses to things are spurs to actions, and are very useful. It is emotions that become tied to particular images or people in a Pavlovian kind of way that are dangerous. This is why a crowd cheering an image of Obama, or the Pope, or the Queen or whoever is not something that I am very comfortable with at all.
I should point out that I am a very emotional fellow, and passionate about many things.
Chris B,
Blocking a bill can be done for political, policy or drafting reasons. In a system where one party has the majority in both houses, it leads to bad legislation on all grounds. See Howard control of Senate – it helped the Liberals lose the election. An unfettered Democratic Party is not necessarily in their own interests, let alone the interests of the nation.
DG Why do do I get the feeling you are trying to emotionally manipulate me now?
Greensborough Growler at 798
I would disagree with comment. I don’t think we can honestly mix ‘act of war’ with ‘act of terr