Introducing another round of comments action in the endless US presidential election campaign. Participants are encouraged to try their luck in the IRC room:
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Presidential election minus 19 weeks
Copyright © 2008 Private Media Pty Ltd, Publishers of Crikey.com.au. All Rights Reserved.
Independent news, blogs and commentary on politics, media and business.
Editor: Jonathan Green.
Publishers: Eric Beecher, Diana Gribble.
Level 7, 22 William St, Melbourne, 3000. Ph: 1800 985 502 Fax: (03) 8623 9975
2,113 Comments
Pages: « 1 … 38 39 [40] 41 42 … 43 » Show All
1950 Kirribilli Removals. Wow that would signal the end of the Repugs if the General collapsed. Cannot imagine that anyone would blame it onto Barrack, although they could try.
Part movie revue (and it’s a really astute and topical one at that), part politcial commentary, Frank Rich has LOT to say, (invariably well):
What Mr. Obama has going for him during this tailspin is that his opponent seems mortifyingly out-to-lunch. Mr. McCain is a man who aspires to lead the largest economy in the world and yet recently admitted that he doesn’t know how to use a computer, the one modern tool shared by everyone from the post-industrial American work force to Middle Eastern terrorists to Pixar animators. Getting shot down over Vietnam may not be a qualification for president in 2008, but surely a rudimentary facility with a laptop is. What Mr. McCain has going for him is a press corps that often ignores or covers up such embarrassments.
NYTimes
…so Macca not only failed to learn why Vietnam was a failed war, he’s not even conversant with this century’s all pervading technology. Talk about living in a time capsule of irrelevance!
Did Macca say ‘change’ to the past? LOL
1951
Chris B
It’s one of many that look awfully stressed and close to imploding. Years of pension plans they haven’t been able to afford, a shrinking market, and a recent binge of big SUV’s they pushed with defiance to ANY sensible legislation on fuel efficiency, has utterly snookered them.
Now it’s rapidly declining market share, a total collapse of the SUV market (down 50% over last year!) and far worse to come. Lumbering under huge debt with a bleak prospect in the mid-term.
Close to terminal.
Ironic how quickly the world turns, ain’t it?
As he finished a weeklong tour of states that have voted Republican in recent presidential races, Senator Barack Obama said on Friday that the nation had “hit a crossroads and we’ve got to make a fast turn,” urging voters at an Independence Day celebration to support his candidacy if they wanted to end the war in Iraq.
One day after Mr. Obama said he would consider refining his plan to remove troops from Iraq within 16 months, he offered no timetable for withdrawal as he criticized the Bush administration’s Iraq policy, which he said “has not made us more safe and has fanned anti-American sentiment all around the world.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/us/politics/05obama.html
1953 Kirribilli Removals I hate to bring it down to basics, but what about Bathurst?
On presidential campaigns, most visits to cities – no matter how picturesque or steeped in history – are essentially drive-bys. The candidate lands, delivers a speech, meets with a few local politicians and is on to the next town before dinnertime.
Barack Obama in Butte, Mont.Senator Barack Obama speaks at an Independence Day picnic in Butte, Mont., on July 4. (Photo: Jae C. Hong/Associated Press)
Here in Butte, with the Rocky Mountains in the distance and the Continental Divide only a few miles away, that was not the case for Senator Barack Obama. He spent a portion of three days in this city as he concluded a weeklong political swing through five red states.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/on-the-road-montana-outtakes/
Oh freaky spooky, I got a post with my year of birth! LOL
It’s a S-I-G-N!!!!
Or a funny coincidence.
URRRRGH got one too. It’s a sign! But it gives away my age. 21…
1951 Chris B
Kirribilli Removals Maybe we’re twins.
McCain is also short of cash and has to spend a lot of time in red states raising money whereas Barack Obama is campaigning in swing states and even red states. He spent the Independence Day holiday in Montana, a state that has voted consistently Republican for President for years (although the governor and both senators are Democrats).
http://www.electoral-vote.com
Progressives , idealists
You have decided to support Obam & that’s your parogative Perhaps your support is somewhat influenced by the stark contrast in so so many ways to Bush , the worstest immorals POTUS in history , but maybe there is another alternative President Bush decided that he had the authority to violote federal statutory law and law and disregard the civil liberties of the American by ilegally wire taping US citizens without a Court warrant Bush enlisted & used private Telco companies in his illegal scheme who KNEW they were breaking the Law In Jan Obama says “We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend,” Then in Feb after 12 months work Democrats lead by Dems Senators Dodd & Feingold put a Surveillance Bill that made these Telco’s companys liable for their illegal wiretapping for bush Obama suported this Bill and even said on 12/2/08 , when chasing progressive votes against Hillary , “I am proud to stand with Senator Dodd, Senator Feingold and a grassroots movement of Americans who are refusing to let President Bush put protections for special interests ahead of our security and our liberty.”
But on 19/6/08 Obama says its OK for these Telcos to get immunity , the reverse of his Jan & Feb committmentts Obama says he will support & vote for a current Bill that provides retrospecctive legal immunity to telacommunications companies being sued for their role in the Bush administration’s illegal zero warrant surveillance program Naturally Dems Senators Dodd , Feingold etc have not changed their principles & oppose this retrospective immunity Bill Mr Obam , the retropspecive is a get out of jail free card for special interest groupds ie Mega $ US Telecoms , that did the Bush admin’s biding in illegal spying on Americans in violation of Federal laws re FISA Whats the good of wining if when you get their you’re naked of basic principals to implement , political expediency has bounds My Gallactic voyager called “donot trust politicians” has 2 rows of seats , one for ‘becoming concerned restless obama supporters (chocky cookies for yous) and th other isle for ‘ambilavents’ neither are worth a vote (quality wines in abundance & sins galore) , with tickets available at all good ‘believe in Kyoto as at least a CC start’ barbarian stores , so repugs inelegibel
5 policy changes below , and query Kyoto , and query those ‘non combat’ troops & bases that Ommy is to leave in Iraq after withdrawal & we havwe no details
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
and no universal healthcare for the 45 million poor who can not afford to pay the preiums an nor for the 30 million other poor/middl clas who are under ensured Allowing Inurance co’s Mr O to still set the premiums & offering howard type subsidies /tax credats , won’t get the poor to insure , they just have not got the mullah , will CONTINUE tspend there littles mullah on food & necessities of life , plus vieo games & DVD’s & big Macs of coarse for there kids US has 50% higher health costs than Europe , cause Insurers & Drug co’s etc make the money Edwards , Hillary etc have Universals , and if too dear the voters will throw yu out , how can they thouw out Driug & insurence co;s , they are not POTUS or elected to th Senate , thats why the Libs & Howard dislike the ‘oz’ universal medicare , but its here to stays just thought throw that out
re: #1961
Surely this is intentionally nonsensical.
Is it really possible that someone can be so utterly inept with English language (assuming that English is their first language)?
Whatever the substance or point of the post may be, it is completely indecipherable and, as a result, self-defeating.
Chris@1960-
that’s mine!(sadly).
Ron –
I actually managed to read that post @ 1961, and I do agree with your sentiment in some ways. HOWEVER… this is a political campaign and before you start on “the you Obamabots wanted it to be different ” line I don’t think anyone for a second thought that a campaign to be POTUS would not be political.
You guys, (ABO’s) are the first to throw mud when Obama shows any sign of compromise or pragmatism at the same time as you hang sh*t on him for being an idealist.
It’s a stupid argument – either he is unrealistic, or he is selling out.
Either way, you can always support McCain.
The inference of expected perfection is the ultimate simpleton’s strawman. Fox News 101.
I think you’ve nailed it Jen: the argument is for the sake of argument, and is hardly consistent (or intelligible for that matter! LOL). If it was couched in something like English, had some consistent premises, then it would surely be worth responding to.
But to abuse those who thought Obama the likely winning candidate for being ‘idealists’ and then pointing out that Obama is a politician who intends to win by hauling his nets through ambiguity and nuanced renditions of positions is puerile baiting for the sake of a response.
Next.
The one thing I’m not going to allow on these dismal and depressing US threads is comments like #1963. Diogenes spoke for me also when he said this.
For Republicans, the Senate outlook is bad.
Mississippi, one of the nation’s most conservative states, has not elected a Democratic senator in a quarter-century. It has voted for Republican presidential candidates in the last seven elections.
But this year, there is a real chance that the state will send a Democrat to the Senate.
That prospect is a window onto a remarkable political trend that has been eclipsed by the fireworks surrounding the 2008 presidential contest: Democrats are running strong Senate campaigns in states such as Mississippi, Alaska and North Carolina that Republicans have long taken for granted.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-senate6-2008jul06,0,1446447.story
William- why “depressing and dismal”?
On the odd occasion that I have visited the Aus threads they seem even worse. Maybe you”re just sick of the lot of us (which would be entirely reasonable).
Jen, I actually said “dismal and depressing”. Very important distinction.
1967 William Bowe Thanks for the heads up.
Really?
Sorry for the misquote, (but I still don’t get the distinction)
1967
William Bowe
Both are opinions, and both are valid, but you have every right to decide which gets aired on your blog (of course).
Personally I’m not totally convinced it isn’t a ‘construct’, but judging from the sheer volume and utter opacity, it borders on delusional.
I was being facetious, Jen.
1972 jen Isn’t that your age?
sweet Chris.
William- I take it you won’t be coming to the PB US election party then?
Chris- I just reread that.
I am not almost 2000 years old, although there are times…
Isn’t it in Sydney, or some such backwater?
1963 Optimist
Ron’s 1961 post is perfectly intelligible. It just requires about 10% more effort than usual but is worth 10 posts from other contributors, myself included.
It’s not what us Obamabots want to hear but it’s perfectly correct. Ron is gutting Obama like a kipper at the moment with some help from Finns and GG. It’s like watching a train crash in slow motion. Now I know how the Hillary supporters felt as she unravelled before their unbelieving eyes.
William,
dreadfully sorry to have crossed the line there.
It can be a bit difficult when the line simply appears behind me.
If you’re suggesting that I’m aware of Ron having dyslexia and that I’m deliberately mocking him then you are flat out wrong, ok!
I was expressing genuine confusion about what appears to me to be rambling, logically inconsistent nonsense.
Ron, I apologise if I’ve offended or insulted you. If your style of writing is the result of something like dyslexia then I fully accept that it is incumbent on me to deal with that and I will.
Having said that, it would be nice to know if there’s anything else that you won’t accept William – I’ve been called a liar, a dickhead and much worse on this thread…all in response to logical and consistent debating points.
As i said, sorry to cross the line, but it’d be nice to get a sense of where it is.
Kirri at 1948, notwithstanding the hornet’s nest and the wedge issue, Bush’s approval rating and that of Congress at the moment are both close to all time lows. Perhaps if Pelosi’s Dems in Congress rather than Barry took Bush on over FISA the Dems might get a few more elected to the House and sufficient Senators elected to prevent a GOPper filibuster on future charges against War Criminal Bush. To continue our fleet-footed metaphors, respect for the Office of POTUS doesn’t mean the vicious little prick can stomp on one’s Constitutionally ordained rights or use the nation and its citizens for a Doormat Shuffle.
With four months to E-Day the small target strategy you mention at 1948 is definitely “in play”, but The Imbecile and his core handlers especially Addington and Cheney are not above the law. Theoretically at least.
Btw, Special K, here’s a couple of Starbucks toons, might have to mouseover datebox to july 4 to glom Stahler’s. No doubt about it though along with the US Economy, the rip-off bean pushers are dead set rooted. http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55759
Fri July 4:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/080704/cx_stahler_umedia/20080407
Just took my family and delightful young Italian exchange student out for a farewell dinner after his two week stay with us. My youngest is off to stay with his folks in Bologna come September. It’s a terrific scheme, especially when the kids click. Got to have him at the airport at sparrows so buonanotte, all.
William- possibly. Depends on what the original Brisbane boys say as it was their suggestion, but it would be easire for Kirribilli to get there if it’s in Sydney. Don’t know what they think as yet, so either the back of beyond in Sydney or Deliverance territory itself in Brisbane.
Diogenes – i don’t think Ron is doing Obama like a kipper at all. I think he is pointing out the pragmatism that Obama is employing to win the most votes and pretending that this is a complete sellout. It’s a beat up.
Obama:
I want to take this opportunity to speak directly to those of you who oppose my decision to support the FISA compromise.
This was not an easy call for me. I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn’t have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about President Bush’s abuse of executive power. It grants retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that may have violated the law by cooperating with the Bush administration’s program of warrantless wiretapping. This potentially weakens the deterrent effect of the law and removes an important tool for the American people to demand accountability for past abuses. That’s why I support striking Title II from the bill, and will work with Chris Dodd, Jeff Bingaman and others in an effort to remove this provision in the Senate.
…Huff post reprint from his website.
It goes on, of course, but note the first caveat “I wouldn’t have drafted the legislation like this”…and then proceed to ask who did, why, and what options it left the candidate.
Simplistic diatribes are fine, they just don’t address the real issues because they are very involved, and few here could give even a superficial explanation of them.
Over to Ronsperanto for more ‘dwalfy’! LOL
Well Kriri –
obviously he isn’t the Messiah after all. There’s a surprise.
Classic Ecky, think I’ll put that Starbucks one on the fridge!
night to you
Kirri- 1984??
You did that on purpose.
Yeah, I might catch some tennis (well, it’s once a year! LOL)
Ooops – it was me!
Night all.
“Isn’t it in Sydney, or some such backwater?”
Settle you bloody sandgroper, settle! No one has put up their hand to do the groundwork yet. Ferny and jv and Possum and me, “The Brissy Boys” as Jen dubbed us, can’t put a Sydney gig together from north of the Tweed but under the present circumstances I’m sure we could jump a jet, but until it’s a lock, we(if they’ll permit me the liberty of speaking on their behalfs) or anyone else for that matter can’t purchase our tickets etc.
So don’t be bashful Sydney-siders, who’s it gonna be???
Alas, Mr Bowe @ 1970, what a year btw, but all entreaties to venture into serious frog country appear to have been in vain & backwaters it is…a disgrace all round frankly …pity, hammock bungy jumping & sharing ideas phfftt…no change!
Dio a walk on the beach is seriously recommended…rememeber? Nothing to do with our dwalfy jingo jango at all; & breathe slowly; one choice etc….if you are silly enough to snap your nappy to ANY US politician well, take even longer walks imho…
I think I babelled ron Ron some oh who cares…
just dropped back and saw this Obama comment & thought say a diferent perspective
Obama: “I want to take this opportunity to speak directly to those of you who oppose my decision to support the FISA compromise.”
Obama himself used th word “compromise” , not mines I think there are alot of issues here that are all up in the air & are relaited in many ways and i’m trying to juggle them all to see where yous believe Obama on principals & on pragemtic politics was correct , we have Obama with $350 million and McCain with $84 or so million , we have a Constitition principal of civil liberty of peoples trashed , have illegal spying use of teknology by powerful Telcos , judges & warrants required by fedaral Laws are deliberately ignored , Obama saying one thing in jan and Feb supporting a Bill with no imunity but by June accepting a Bill being put that has imunity instead of saying NO to the Bill because its fundamentally flawed (having an imunity for the ilegal Telcos provision) , Oba’s claim he’ll ‘try’ to get the imunity clause out when he damn wells knows the Dems/Repug deal means ithe imunity clause will get voted yes to stay in , suggestons this is Obama being pragmetic because voters will think he’d be otherwise regarded as ’soft’ on N S for wanting to make illegal wiretaps Telcos acountable , we think voters will belieeve its OK for Obama’s ‘compromise’ & ‘Dems ‘compromise’ for Bush’s mates the Telcos to get off scot free for wiretaping them the citizens given voters give Congrss a 19% approval rating , and voters will not wunder why Obama did not stick to what he said in Jan/Feb instad of agreeing with the 19% approval rating Dems congress ‘compromise’ , and voters are happy with his word ‘compromise’ and his word ‘try’ See if I cans follow up these differing opinions
Now the Obama is the POTUS candiate , so the Obama “comppromise’ he owns The Dems congrss can not wag the tail for the Dems POTUS candidate on such a Constititional issue Obama by not rejecting the Bill like Dems Feingold , Dodd etc , is OK-ing a ‘done deal’ of retrospective imunity for a spesial powerful US sector , Telcos , a rich big interest group that KNOWINGLY (there CEO’s have Uni degrees and they employ the smartest silks ) those Telco CEO’s etc guys KNEW they were breaking Fedaral laws requiring both a warrant & a Judges prior OK for wiretaps This is a protection parsuant to the wholwee US Constitution for heavons sake for civil liberties & the rule of Law, yet yet these rich powerful Telco ’s did the Bush’s technology- based illegal spying on a massive scale against US Americans citizens in violation of Federal laws re FISA And then these Telco guys allowed that wiretapped private citizens info to go to hundreds of analysists in the CIA , the NSA et et The Telco’s & their CEO’s and there Lawyers are lioble under civil and criminal Federal laws , as also so is Bush & cheney and their henchmens So the ‘compromise ‘ of which the POTUS candidate Obama is complient , is not a trfle issue at all , Telcos & Bush etc all belong impeachable on it & fitabble for ‘orange’ overalls
And now lok at the politics of it , Obama rightly says in Jan & Feb he supoprts Dems Feingold , Dodd etc Bill to have no immunitys for the illegal Telco wiretaping done illegablly at Bushs west wing direction , rather than getting a warrant AND a Judisial approval Correct I feel This was th ‘new change style of politcs’ , principal , big principal , the transparant public opposite to th Bush Government style trashing of the Constituton, and the very opposite of bypassing of required warrants & Judges OK No imunity is the very opposite to condoning illegal wiretaps & spying by big bussiness unholys alliances with a corrupt Repug executive arm Obama’s Jan and Feb stance was a contrat , a winner on a fundamental Constitutonal principal and on getting political votes But on 19th June , the ‘change to , new style politcs ‘ man changews sides & supports by complience ‘imunity’ Why ?
Because his Pelosi brethern mates do a deal with th Repugs The ‘New change politcs’ man should hav said to the old style politcs Dems Polosi brigade NO NO , I’ve made my postion public because I believed in it & am not changing Also Obama could have said to Mrs Peolosi brigade thats why yous the Dems controlled Congrss & Senators only have 19% voter approval & why Bush has only 28% voter approval , the reason is because the voters tink you both stink and the voters think I’m different & I am , i’m new style politcs I’m gonna go with that to the people with my $350 million war chest and say the Telcos acted illegally spying on yous the citizens , under the direction of corrupt REPUBLICAN President admin , and those ilegal Telcos are not above the law Now in addition Obama could hav said to the Pelosi Dems brigade , your political pregmetic argument to me is not only unprincipaled but also politically flawed , yous want me to believe voters will accept a Repug argument that I’m ’soft’ on National security issues just because those Repugs (with 27% approval & sinking everytime Macca opens his mouth) those Repugs might say against me that I want the illegal spying wiretapingTelcos to be held accountable and that makes me ’soft’ Wrong , instead after I spend my $350 million war chest voters will think the Repugs are all responsible for the illegal spying wiretaping Telcos & are protecting them , and that i’m tough and principaled and represent the ‘new style politcs’ Voters also may think your 19% congrss approval ratings may be too generous And Telcos are Companies the voters probabaley do not like anyway i mean who likes or believes there phone bill So mr Obama should not have changed his position from Jan and Feb stance at all , and his closing comment of he will TRY to get that immunity clause out , come on the Dems’Repug deal has been dune , the Senate will pass the Telco immunity clause , and we & Obama knows that , so that was a disengenuous throw away for teh faithful Just because the Pelosi Dems set is wrong does not mean Obama had to follows same wrong path , after all he is the POTUS candidate Hell , what sort of Congress standards are going to happen after Nov , if this is the Constitutional illegal imunity standards applied now , think Obama has just let the ‘old style politcs’ brigade convert him from ‘new style politics’ to them
On both a most fundamental Constitutional principal & on smart politcs , the so called political pragmetism treatment of this crucial issue is flawed , & undersells voters feel for both their distaste for illegal spying wiretaping of them & also their distaste of rich powerful Telco crominals being let off free by a Dems involved Congrss inclusive of Mr Obama Additionaly , with congress at 19% approval , this issue was after all a Repug problem not a Dems one , and the Dems and Obama have allowed it to be a joint Dems/Repug one ! This issue reelly was a Repug one only and was actualy a chance to nail the Repug Congressmens & Senators on THEM wanting to give thier Repug powerful ilegal Telco mates immunity !! , and a chance for the Dems to win more Congrss seats not less , maybe enough to stop filla’s Sometimes being too cute with principals & believing ‘political nous experts’ pragmetism is the reverse of what voters will vote for in droves and this is one , i reckon says my politcal antenas If you are gonna junk a principal for pragmetism at leest make it an irrlevant one that both the voters and you don’yt really care about , and this does not fit that criteria and ps/ the ‘left’ media editors would have suported Obama on this to the hilt Whose wagging whose tail , the old style Pelosi brigade or Obama Now Hillary’s history , McCain’s dustbinned , and i’m ambivalant
and ? fight Dems Congrss against powerful interest groups to get Kyoto ratified
Untying a Knot in Campaign Finance.
WHEN Barack Obama announced his decision to reject public financing for his presidential campaign, he caught heavy flak from all sides. Critics, including some of his most ardent supporters, complained that he was willing to abandon the cause of good government to gain a financial edge.
Skip to next paragraph
Melissa Golden/Getty Images
Senator Barack Obama opted against taking public money for his campaign, which has been supported by small donations.
What the critics have ignored is that truly effective campaign finance reform has been precluded by First Amendment concerns. Given that constraint, the Obama campaign’s approach may offer the only realistic possibility of limiting the corrupting influence of money in politics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/business/06view.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good one Chris…
Skip to next paragraph
Melissa Golden/Getty Images
1977 jen whoops. When you were born!
Sadly not Chris.
EC -re election party.
I’m sure Brisbane is fine if no one can set up something in Sydney. ( I can’t – i’m in NE Victoria). . Kirri will understand I’m sure, and we can only hope that by then he might even be well enough to travel if need be.
Sorry if I buggered up the plans!
Cheers.
1991 Ron
I completely agree. The Dems are so petrified of being wedged on any issue that they refuse to take a principled stand. They seem to think the Repugs can control the political agenda at will and the “small target” policy is their best hope. It’s time they crawled out from under their shells and told the US what they stand for. The cowering and cringing and wringing of hands has to stop.
Here’s a users guide to the two boys much practised U-turn manoeuvre. Both score a very healthy five flip-flops. George W and Kerry almost never “repositioned” their policies. It’s going to be interesting to see whose “pragmatic political stances” the MSM decides are the least worst.
US candidates practise their U-turns
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7474558.stm
I suspect the Repugs are very desperate.
Pages: « 1 … 38 39 [40] 41 42 … 43 » Show All