The Australian reports that Newspoll has produced its second successive result of 57-43 in Labor’s favour. The Prime Minister’s approval rating is up two points to 68 per cent, while Brendan Nelson’s preferred leader rating is down two points to 12 per cent. More to follow.
We also have the weekly Essential Research survey showing Labor’s lead steady on 58-42. Also featured are questions on issues deemed important in determining vote choice, economic conditions, interest rates and China’s human rights record. The first of these provides at least some good news for the Coalition if you know where to look: Labor’s core strengths of health and education are found to have fallen in importance since January, while economic management and taxation are up (though so is environment). There is also an echo of the Gippsland by-election in the substantial increase on “Australian jobs and the protection of local industries”.
UPDATE: Newspoll graphic here. Brendan Nelson’s disapproval rating up from 42 per cent to 48 per cent.
969 Comments
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What are your opinions on the Liberal leadership speculation?
Adam, you’re missing out on a good ALP stoush over on the WA thread
748:
That is a bit of a childish way of looking at things. He is making the race competitive even if it may or may not be indicative of the actual election result in November, so much can change so fast.
Frank
if yous need any reserves to slay Liberal hordes , let us Easterners know , otherwise leave sweetness of your conquests to you guys
It’s actually ALP’er vs ALP’er namely me and Jasmine, with the occasional interruption by A-C
Well Frank , already got “James Ron and th Ronnettes” , so would hav to go with Labor lady Jasmine and her argument whatever it is , as Frank sorry but you’re not quite “Ronnettes” material
Frank,
Seems like you guys are one big happy family.
The Manson Family!
Try not to descend in to violent agreement.
GG
WA politcs may be like in East , blowtorchs cause butterfly capitulations in air
Jasmine is a Greenie, not a Laborite
“It’s actually ALP’er vs ALP’er namely me and Jasmine,”
Jas is a good debater Frank, as are you, and makes some good points,the most helpful criticism usually comes from within.
Oh they’re just arguing about uranium. Zzzz.
But she claims she’s an ALP member - unless she didn’t renew her membership.
Those querying Kevin Rudd on Murray Darling and lakes and Coorong MD Commissions assessment was there was insufficent water to save Coorong and lower lakes based on there calcs of water in overall sysytem
There figures overall was MD River system was in deficit , capacity of 24,000 gigalitres but only 4,800 stored These figures hav been disputed by some
This is reason for Kevin07 requiring new Murray Darling Basin authoritiy set up from july 08 to do a new audit of what private and public water is reely in system , and then to get a 2nd 3rd party audit to verify figures Also this NEW Authority will mange whole MD sysytem ith common water trading, rights etsd unlike prior 5 diferent entities “managing’ for each State’s self interest , and with conflicting water trading , rights etc
MD cap next year will be 6% of consumptive ! , with option to increase thereafer
Kevin rudd this week however did reiterate 3.1 billion water rights butyback and further said it major commercial irrigation properties not just htere rights , these ar major users of MD water
Total National water Plan now totals 16.6 billion , following a further 3.7 billion added from July COAG meeting After 7 months Kevin Rudd has made a fine start on MD with a vision and an actionplan
ESJ,
I often wonder about the true meaning of bureacratic speech. I recently cme across these gems on an obscure site and decided to reconstruct.
Towards this end, I have developed the following migration plan:
-establishment of a new domain path - The local Council is cool!
-server facilities that will allow the deployment of our own wordpress installation- I’ve bought some more memory.
-the new site will provide us with total control over site theme and plugins. It has an on/off switch.
-a supporting infrastructure will have more than sufficient space and very big pipes- The toilet has been unblocked.
-the solution will not require financial contributions The Russians are providing the dosh.
-transparent redirection from our current site to our new home will be implemented. We’ve left a forwarding address.
-the plan aims to deliver complete integrity of all existing data. We’ve given William’s property back.
may buy
GG, “Editor in Mischief” unleashed on PB? Frightening.
Frank,Adam
Jas is definitely not green.
she has the ability to differentiate substance from spin.
Adam
you support uranium mining?
Rod “the most helpful criticism usually comes from within.”
I completely agree with that rod , a difficulty on a site like this to be frank is I’ve noticed some posters ar not Labor supporters at allbut imply they ar and then criticise
Difficulty dealing with that approach of pretend Labor suporters , is it would be better they declare there allegiances so philosophical ‘context’ of what they’re arguing against is seen , and then one could rationally debate a point , back and forward
i have no objection to mining and exporting it subject to proper safeguards. i don’t think australia needs nuclear power.
Ron
at times i believe our passion blinds all our judgement
the overall intent of PB is to encourage debate in its many forms
that said i kinda follow a gut feeling whether some one is playing silly buggers
ps can we move on from “gilligans”- rather like rehashing a bad joke over and over
Adam
from your statement i take it you agree with jasmines general thrust re uranium mining then?
Guface
you read something into #768 that was not there , I said this site , further hav made no mention today of Gilligans so where did that come from , but seeing you hav , suggest read #293 its not a laughing matter
Ron
simply put,bilbo has dealt with the matter.
case closed.As he has said more than once.
ps the ‘gilligans’ reference was not meant at you, more a general stfu about it
my apologies if you took it personally.
Gusface
Point of my #293 and subsequent posts was to ensure posters here knew th whole truth , because it had reely bluntly come down to our moderator’s integrity vs Gilligans disinformation being posted here , and our moderator naturally was not going to defend his integrity (why bloody hell should he) , so I simply set facts out so posters actualy knew facts of his 100% integrity in matter , rather Gus than people assume despite hearing disinformation
Re jokes Gus , gues its like cossie jokes done over and over , we still enjoy them over and over all reely from ones PERSPECTIVE (and obviously Libs do not) , same thing Island fun does not hurt & if some think bad joke just scroll no harm , no Gus your comment was not taken personel
Ron,
cool
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/im-no-coward-why-john-howard-refused-to-step-down/2008/08/15/1218307227794.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
hello? full blown deprivation syndrome kicking in
Gus
no problem
liked link “full blown deprivation syndrome kicking in” looks like
Rodent moved FROM ” I’ll stay as long as Liberal Party wants me”
TO whenever they no longer want him , then more important is “my reputation as not quitting th job than Liberals badly losing ….but if Liberal Cabinet formally say I’m to go , then that means I did not quit I got pushed , SO THEN I’ll go ‘for benefit of party to prevent a bad loss
did I get that ok , or did i miss some subtletly there in Rodent
Heh, heh…
The party was going to ask Howard to leave before the election, but they decided to let him stay… because a Newspoll improved by a point or two.
Legends in their own lunchtime, the Libs. There’s courage for you.
And their supporters, too. Dennis finally has a success with his forensic entrail reading.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/im-no-coward-howard/2008/08/15/1218307227794.html
Double heh, heh…
According to The Australian, Nelson reckons…
>blockquote>…it would be impossible for Costello to tell anything approaching the real story of his time in politics in his memoir, due on September 15, without permanently alienating many key figures in the party, including former prime minister John Howard.
Poor fools. Howard’s dream of ruling from the political grave has come true.
If Costello broadsides Howard, as he probably must do if he’s to tell the complete and unvarnished story, the Liberals will disown him like dog droppings, such is their abased attachment to their failed former King. And out the window would go any leadership “aspirations” they are right now praying he might have.
If Costello whitewashes over the various times he was spurned by His Maj, it will just confirm what everyone from both sides of politics suspected: that he was too spineless to speak up, even from the pages of a book.
Too spineless, and too easily swindled.
Not foreman material.
And too temperamental, as that low attack on Michelle Grattan (”you need a stronger prescription”) shows.
As you say, BB, not foreman material.
I predict he would crash and burn spectacularly. The sadistic side of me hopes he does “take on” the leadership so we can see it all come flying apart.
AntiGG giving the Tiptoe another front page run. Lyons says that libbers have moved from 80:20 that the Tip would move on, to 50:50 that he would move on ‘and firming’. Also there or elsewhere, that job offer did not actually happen when it was ‘orchestrated’, but, really, truly, six months earlier. Well, that’s all right then. He must be credible.
Greg Sheridan must have caught up with a combination of a few bloggers on this thread, including Ron & Adam. A bit unsettling when you find yourself agreeing with a neocon running dog who states that the US has made three mistakes:
1. Bill Clinton stuffed up for not supporting Russian democracy more and better when there was a chance to do so.
2. Expanding NATO to Russian borders.
3. Mismanaging the Saakashvili client relationship.
Sheridan opined that Bush had made ‘extravagant promises’ to Saakashvili. Whatever that means.
He also, rightly, points out that the Russians bear the entire moral and political responsibility for ‘their actions’. But then again, I thought that goes for everybody, even for AntiGG journos.
No, he just stands for things that are wrong.
I never said that expanding NATO to Russia’s borders was a bad idea. I’m all in favour of it. Georgia and Ukraine should be immediately admitted to NATO, NATO troops should be stationed along both borders and Russia should be told that if they mess with NATO countries they will get nuked. If the US won’t send troops to Georgia and Ukraine (and I’m sure under McCain they will), no doubt Poland will be happy to. They have a few scores to settle.
LOL! Which will give Russia the right to fire nukes at every country in their vicinity.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through very carefully.
Well, if he announces this policy BEFORE the election there is even less chance that he will become the president.
When Serbia tried to crush the separatists in Kosovo, NATO intervened. When Georgia tried to crush the separatists in South Ossetia, Russia intervened. What goes around, comes around.
It’s interesting that while the ALP is not contesting either Lyne or Mayo, the DLP has nominated for both seats. Also, as pointed out above, Labor’s candidate for Mayo in the general election, Mary Brewerton, is running in the by-election as an independent. Meanwhile, the Libs do not have a c andiate in Lyne.
NATO intervened in Kosovo to save a million people from genocide. Russia intervened to rebuild its empire in the Caucasus and gain control of the oil pipeline through Georgia. There is no comparison.
Did they achieve this using nuclear weapons?
And really it was the United States that took the initiative. NATO jumped on the band wagon after Clinton told them he was going to go it alone.
The ‘bludgers have certainly been ahead of the curve on this one. Georgia caves completely, the Russians remain on Georgian soil and Russia doesn’t even have to recognise Georgia’s sovereignty. The US have taken a bath on this one. Chalk up another loss for Bush II.
Georgia forced to accept a Russian occupation
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4543728.ece
Adam @ 784
I didn’t intend to verbal you, and was not clear enough about what I was trying to say which was that Sheridan had picked up different ideas from different bloggers, not that all bloggers were thinking exactly the same as Sheridan.
Apart from that, expanding on your nuke advice, all we need is one Goldwater in Russia and one Goldwater in the US, and all complex problems will be vaporized before you can finish saying ‘Saakashvili’.
I’ll get back to Afghanistan when I get some more thinking about it done.
without permanently alienating many key figures in the party, including former prime minister John Howard.
More evidence that the Libs should be more accurately called the ‘Howard Party’
The longer they cloak themselves in the delusion of his ‘greatness’ the longer it’ll be before they become a credible alternative to the government.
Ol’ Ming must be spinning like a top in his grave.
Boerwar
The reason given for the US invasion of Afghanistan was their failure to hand over suspected terrorists. The Afghans had the temerity to ask for evidence of guilt of the terrorists from the US. Of course, the US had no evidence whatsoever given how totally useless the CIA is. There is a legal requirement to having some sort of evidence when seeking an extradition.
Yet again, the US flaunted accepted legal processes and did whatever it felt like. And it’s continuing to pay in spades.
Mayoferal,
This is precisely the problem confronting the Libs. To get back in the game they need to repudiate the Howard legacy. This can’t be done while the current crop of leaders remain because it would undermine their own credibility, lack of performance and courage. Initially, the knife plunger will wear as much flak from the Libs side as the Labor side. However, someone will eventually have to do it.
Fraser never mentioned McMahon when he took Government, Howard never mentioned Fraser. Same on the Labor side.
Until someone on the Libs side can forge a new identity for them and the Party, they have no hope.
From the ‘I’m no coward’ article linked to by gusface (774):
But Mr Howard told his minister that while he was pessimistic about the election, he “had more show of winning than Peter” and if he stepped down voluntarily, history would regard him as “a coward”.
So this is really about Howard’s ego?
Adam
There was no genocide in Kosovo according to the UN court. As for the one million people figure, it’s hard to see how about 800 people being massacred can reliably point to one million being the final figure without US intervention. And most of those died after the US intervened anyway.
I’m not saying the US did the wrong thing, or that the Serbs wouldn’t have committed more atrocities if they weren’t bombed but Kosovo pales into insignificance compared with Rwanda.
Kosovo assault ‘was not genocide’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1530781.stm
Youse are all splitting hairs here on Georgia.
Whether the analogy is Kosovo, Iraq or Cuba, the end result is the same: invasion in support of perceived interests.
The Americans have been touting their right to intervene in South and Central America and the Caribbean for donkey’s years, as official policy (aka. “The Monroe Doctrine”). Lately they’ve expanded this to the Middle East. They do not have a leg to stand on with their preaching.
Russia now has, or more accurately is reasserting its own version of the Monroe Doctrine. Theeir demand is there will be no interference by foreign powers in their sphere of influence. In other words, the Russians decide what goes on in their region.
There is no difference between the ferocity of the Russian military activities in Georgia and any number of American adventures in their own region, from death squads, to tinpot dictatorships, to outright invasions and assertions of a right to invade, whenever and wherever they want to.
For years now the Americans have been getting away, literally, with murder. Their lame excuse regarding Iraq - that it was all a tragic mistake - is laughable in the face of their lecturing and posturing now.
A succession of American Presidents - from Reagan in Grenada to Bush in Iraq, and yes, Georgia - have cruelled the ground for the diplomats and their own credibility. They have none, and they are powerless, both morally and militarily, to do anything about it short of going to war with Russia… and we know that’s not going to happen. Russia may not be able to destroy the US 300 times over anymore with nuclear weapons, but I reckon eighty or ninety times over will suffice.
They’ve stood by while Israel - their vassal or their master, it’s hard to tell - claims a right to bomb Iran. Ditto with just about anything else they see as being to their, and their economy’s advantage.
The Americans had their chance and blew it. They could have helped Russia instead of impeding its progress to democracy. So we end up with Putin who is just doing what leaders of big powers do. The rest is noise. It really is.
And if anyone here who thinks the West can do anything about Georgia wants something really tasty to chew on, consider what’s going to happen when China starts flexing its muscles.
Okay everybody, back on topic now.
Dang. Was just preparing my bit on A*****istan.
Okay, one last comment, Boerwar.
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