The latest weekly Essential Research survey (providing a rolling average of results over the previous fortnight) shows Labor’s lead up to 59-41 after a long stretch on 58-42. Also included are leadership approval ratings which provide an interesting point of comparison with Newspoll: Kevin Rudd has 56 per cent approval and 33 per cent disapproval (compared with 59 per cent and 25 per cent in last week’s 56-44 Newspoll), while Brendan Nelson’s ratings are 24 per cent and 51 per cent (compared with 36 per cent and 39 per cent). Breakdowns are provided telling us how much of this approval and disapproval is “strong”, and there are also results on whether Nelson’s party has given him “the support he deserves”, and on the seasonal workers issue.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
554 Comments
Evening Trots,
It seems that the Government is running the untenable line that higher taxes are somehow evidence of brilliant economic management. Shame on Krudd.
Nice to be back after a long haitus.
Now that the dust is settling on the selection of Michael Palin as McCain’s veep. I think this will go down as McCain’s folly in a Monty Python proportion. Obama-Biden will now win.
On the previous thread, I don’t see what evidence there is for Turnbull being any more or less able than, say, Swan, to run the economy.
Finnigans,
It was a crazy decision. I agree, Obama will win.
I don’t think Obama will have the clean sweep he desires. Given the tightness of the polls, and his lack of tangible policy, he has a way to go. The game has changed given the advent of Palin.
By the way, it is hardly a crazy decision. Obama can hardly profess to be a candidate of change when his VP is but a few years younger than McCain and from the same old Washington machine.
The hysterical effort to chastise Salin by dyed-in-the-wool Democrats is a testament to their envy that McCain has pulled a rabbit out of his hat and drowned all serious media coverage of the Denver convention.
At times it is hard to see how either side get figures as high as they do.
I’m tipping the government will improve its rating over the next month or so as the relief of a reduced interest rate is felt through people’s monthly mortgage repayments.
That the whole world is now talking about candidate experience must be a net negative for Obama.
Afterall, he is running for the top job without any real adminstrative experience.
His VP announcement was always going to take coverage of the Denver convention away given it’s timing. Who it was didn’t really matter. I wouldn’t call her much of a rabbit either… more like Elmer Fudd with all the gun-toting.
Neither does McCain though. If anyone seriously thinks a VP that has a year or two as Governor of one of the US’s smallest and most remote states adds much to a ticket then they are kidding themselves.
I’d call 25 years in the Senate, his history as POW etc etc. a reasonable CV filler for the most important job in the world.
Obama, on the other hand………….
How does being a POW give him administrative experience?
Dario,
You keep avoiding the obvious.
“Obama’s got plenty of nothing, but nothing seems plenty for you”.
Well I think the electorate will judge the government by turning interest rates down, though that will seem to contradict the right wing noise squad’s mantra that interest rates are ALWAYS higher udner Labor. What if they aren’t??
Meanwhile I don’t know how tenable it was for a conservative “small government” party to think that continual spending of surpluses on marginal seat pork while capital investment declined was being economically responsible? Blocking budget revenue measures in the Senate doesn’t look like a responsible use of a balance of power either. The voters will decide on that too.
GG,
I agree with you, McCain’s got a good CV. In fact he’s more likely, judging from his legislative record, to be able to negotiate with Nancy Pelosi et al, than Obama is.
His age and general grumpiness are more worrying, but people probably say the same about me!
But Palin? Why did he do it? And is she up to being President, if required?
Politicians don’t “run the economy”.
WTF? You don’t need a “clean sweep”, 270 electoral college votes is enough.
Maybe so, but the fact he has changed his mind on nearly every substantive issue you care to name over the last 8 years is going to work against him. Thankfully he didn’t pick Mitt Romney as his VP. But he out did himself by picking another person who thinks creationism should be taught in high schools, so he is obviously losing it as he gets older.
ShowsOn, “run the economy” wasn’t my phrase originally, but in some senses, don’t you think politicians do run it?
Put it this way, politicians can stuff the economy up.
Socrates,
Further, the previous Lib Government not spending money on skills training and education is the reason our productivity has plateaued.
By golly I want this Labor Government to commit to skills training on a huge scale.
The key to a secure future in the world is a smarter and more creative workforce.
Why does “…his history as POW etc etc” mean “a reasonable CV filler”?
There were plenty of other POWs, in all wars. Never heard a one of them claim it as a reason to become a street sweeper, let alone for “the most important job in the world”. 25 years in the Senate sounds reasonable but I’d like to see the achievements listed with it (Rolling over like a puppy for GWB doesn’t count as an achievement, by the way).
Palin has already assumed joke status and has been taken away from the media by the Republican handlers. Sort of the reverse of Petey Costello. Hands up those who felt strangely unclean after reading Glenn Milne’s piece today? It was like reading someone else’s love letters. Could these two please just go and get a room somewhere and get it on? And keep the pillow talk to themselves?
ShowsOn,
Palin’s belief in creationism isn’t the point, in fact it’s probably the only aspect of her that makes her a sensible choice. One of the key groups with whom McCain has a popularity gap is the Christian right, and they believe in creationism.
No, the reason she is a defective choice is her gross lack of relevant experience.
Dyno,
At least she is a change you can believe in!
As I said previously, her appeal to the swing state conservatives can not be underesimated. Her appeal to the get out the conservative evangelicals is undoubted.
She seems feisty and no fool.
Could be an inspired choice.
Obama is rapidly becoming last years ‘toy of choice” for the voters.
I don’t really think McCain is the answer to sorting out the US economic mess. Here are some quotes:
“I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.”
“The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should. I’ve got Greenspan’s book.”
“The fact is we had four years of failed policy. We were losing. We were losing the war in Iraq. The consequences of failure and defeat of the United States of America in the first major conflict since 9/11 would have had devastating impacts throughout the region and the world.” –forgetting the war in Afghanistan, which was launched in October 2001, CBS News interview, July 21, 2008
And just to prove he has lost that common man touch:
“I think — I’ll have my staff get to you. It’s condominiums where ? I’ll have them get to you.” –after being asked how many houses he and his wife, Cindy, own, interview with Politico, Las Cruces, N.M., Aug. 20, 2008
So GG, I distinctly prefer Obama to that. In a two horse race you only have to be better than the other guy. And Obama is. Just as I can vote against Howard here, and not have to pretend that Rudd is perfect. He is still an improvement.
GG @ 23,
There is a 1 in 1000 chance she could turn out to be an inspired choice. Not impossible, just very, very unlikely.
I promise to grovel to you if she does.
I agree by the way, Palin seems no fool. Just way too raw in my view.
Roy Orbison,
Palin is the “Pretty Woman” ,”Working for the Man”. Obama will be “Crying” as everyone works out “She’s Got it”.
Fox News is reporting that Palin has good international experience because Alaska is very close to Russia. Cindy McCain agreed.
Palin is already unravelling.
“I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq.” Palin on the Iraq War.
When asked if she’s ready to be president “Absolutely, yup yup.”
“I’m not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she’s a woman and a conservative. Well, she’s a better speaker than McCain,” from mother-in-law.
She’s got some serious abuse of power problems with “Troopergate” due to a petty and vindictive nature which doesn’t augur well for being POTUS.
And McCain didn’t want her. He wanted Lieberman but Rove told McCain he wasn’t allowed to have him.
#
23
Greeensborough Growler Says:
“Obama is rapidly becoming last years ‘toy of choice” for the voters.”
You’ve got to be kidding. Wishful thinking will get you nowhere.
Dyno,
“There is a 1 in 1000 chance she could turn out to be an inspired choice. Not impossible, just very, very unlikely”.
Please point to any credible research study that confirms these figures. Or is it just your humble opinion based on your prejudices.
Socrates,
Can respect a judgement call. Just, I don’t agree.
Steve K,
All pollls are showing a convergence. No wishful thinking there.
GG,
It’s entirely my opinion, and is totally unscientific! (But I think you already knew that).
Sarah Palin is about to find out what Nicole Cornes went through but 100 times worse. Nicole Cornes wasn’t a fool either but she still got slaughtered. One of the most popular searches on Google is “Sarah Palin swimsuit”.
Can we please have a US election thread, I think the topic here is the Essential Research Poll. It only took a couple of posts to return to US politics. YAWN.
With the interest rates “good news” how high will Kev and Labor vote go?
i thought this was a site about aus. politics not a site for people who live in aust. but belive they know something about a election in another more boring country. I am sure that there are other sites around for persons who want to blog one-handed with their pants around there legs.
you beat me to it ruwake.
ruawake. sorry
Fair comment Ruawake. Not a bad idea William….
As I said earlier and on the previous thread, I think this trend (interest rates down) will be very good for Labor, not only because falling interest ratex are always good for a government, but because it vindicates their budget strategy.
No I don’t. I think Raoul Castro runs the Cuban economy, I think Kim Jong Il runs the North Korean economy, but I don’t think any Australian politician runs the Australian economy. We have a substantially market economy which runs itself. The RBA determines the price of credit, but again, the RBA board doesn’t have any politicians on it.
The best thing that our politicians can do is use taxes to pay for things that the market won’t provide, like major infrastructure projects as well as education and health institutions which can’t or shouldn’t be run for a profit. But to me that doesn’t equate with running an economy, to me that is providing things that helps the economy run itself.
Ok, ShowsOn, semantics, but fair enough.
Let me put my comment another way: I haven’t seen any evidence that Turnbull would be any worse (or better) at being Treasurer than Swan is.
“The best thing that our politicians can do is use taxes to pay for things that the market won’t provide, like major infrastructure projects as well as education and health institutions which can’t or shouldn’t be run for a profit.”
And they can refrain from doing such things when they are ill-advised. Which is (nearly) as important as doing them when they are needed.
Do you think that maybe a little of the gloss of best economic managers is wearing off. Howard got one thing right i think, when he said the australian
people usually vote the correct way. Sure not always ,but seems they picked right again this time ,so at least a 2 term labour govt. is a cert. no matter what the libs try and throw at them.
Everyone seems to be talking experience re the US race.
Obama v McCain= McCain win
VPs= Dem win
Dem VP and McCain seem to have similar experience.
Obama has more experience then Palin
Therefore the Dem ticket is more experienced
Bert,
Strange call.
Palin is actually the Governor of Alaska. Obama’s experience. Oh, that’s right, there isn’t any.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.
GO AWAY with the US crud.
Does anyone belive now that the major banks now will not pass on the intrest rate cuts. Swan played them absolutley right , ask threat. and then tell. Costello is going to be shown up as the lasiest, luckiest, treasurer of all time.
gg bert diogenes etc, ferk off to another site if you want to play us wankers.
ER seem to be like Morgan last year, always a point or two above Newspoll. If so then this poll indicates nothing has changed and, if anything Labors voted has firmed around the 56-57 mark.
Very low unemployment even in a slowing economy is not going to create enough disenchanted who would also blame Labor to make any difference. IMO
A halt on rate rises and even some small cuts also will make the average voter feel things are coming under control. Fuel prices though under nobody’s control will make people feel more comfortable if they do seem to continue easing in the long term.
The LNP will try and make Labor’s CC policies the scare campaign at the next election. And no doubt big business groups will be pumping out misinformation scare reports in the meantime to prime the audience. Though it will be hard job given the polls that say the majority of the population is behind actually doing something tangible.
Labor must getting close to phase two of their reelection plans whatever they are.
ruawake and madk,
We play under William’s rules.
What happens in the US election is vital to the intersets of Australian political life.
Madk @ 35. Are you male or female?
TP
the thing that the MSM have not picked up is that rudd is now embedded in the peoples mindset.So,like last year, any attack on rudd is actually taken as an affront to most people.
I expect rudd to maintain theses sort of figures up to and into an election.
GP
hope your hiatus was not herniated too much by the fibs leadership antics
Ru
hear hear
Finns, your parrot here. so glad to finally agree with you on the US election!!
GG, I was mearly alluding to the fact that none of you wankers really know what you are talking about. MY gender has no relation to the fact.
madk,
Please tell us all what it is that you do that justifies your oxygen intake and makes your opinions more superior?
I am sure there is phone booth full of people waiting to see you drop your pants and indulge in one hand blogging.
Essential Research: 59-41
Published by William Bowe at 5:51 pm under Federal Politics
The Fibs have been snookered by their own rhetoric, Oh dear it was Swannie talking about interest rates that made them rise, now it is a “slowing economy” that is causing interest rates to fall.
Talcum - economics 101. You raise interest rates to slow the economy. The RBA has been trying to slow it for 6 or 7 years but the worlds greatest hammock swinger, knowing what should really be done, let the Rat Man try to spend his way to election wins.
I wonder what Rat Man had on Tip, apart from a Squirrel Grip.
madk
hey don’t be calling the pollbludgers wankers! Not nice!
on the Yanks though, as Ted Bullpit would say
“someone should blow the lot of them up”
I have never stated my opinions are more superior to yours GG ,you sanctimonious git . I just put forward my opinion that this is a site for discussion of australian politics not US. politics, and if you wish to discuss the us election there are other sites to do that on. Now i am sure there is a highway service station dunny waiting to hear your first hand experience of how the USA election will be won. I Say again look at the thread title .AUS POLITICS
Madderandmadderk,
In sad news another great stateman of the post war alliance between Australia and the US shreds his mortal coil.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/comments/0,22023,24273937-663,00.html
The Liberals know they’ve been snookered by their own rhetoric on interest rates, in particular their promise to keep them “at record lows”.
Now, rather than show contrition for making promises they could not and had no way of keeping, they are trying to verbal Rudd Labor on grocery prices, petrol prices etc. A couple of weeks ago the Liberal Party homepage (liberal.org.au) was running a Flash animation saying Labor had “promised to reduce prices”.
Of course Rudd did no such thing. No one in their right mind would.
We all know what he said: that Labor would do whatever possible to put downward pressure on prices and inflation.
That’s quite semantically different to “promising to reduce prices” as per the dishonest Liberal ad.
So that’s the Liberals for you. Dishonest when making their own promises. When busted, make dishonest claims about the other side.
PS: The misleading Flash ad is now gone from their homepage.
exactly rx. for all the libs. spin and talk the more is exposed that they where the liars.Costello must know this and he will retire. Did anyone see his face on QT. when swan read out how good the inflation figures where. He knows he is toast.
Me! Me! Me! Hands up me!
Perfectly put, Roy Orbison. Just perfect.
Christian Kerr came close too, the other day. “Costello owns Parliament” (or words to that effect). And all because he sotto voce’d “Blame Game”.
One can only surmise that Little Glenny has fallen off the wagon again recently. What will Mr.s Milne say?
Poor buggers, you do have to feel sorry for them, don’t you?
McCain-Palin.
Milne-Shanahan-Abbot-Costello.
Wishful thinking, billboard size.
Very unfair of the Libs to blame “Poll Bludgers” for the unemployment problem.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24277170-12377,00.html
Been away a few hours , see some interest & disinterest shown in electons yonde rof glitz & glitters , and whilst i’ve said nought about it today I’ll plead guilty in advance
Before getting to Turnbull’s history , can suggest that deputy ‘oz’ leaders had little to or from a ticket on stat evidence , and th same is true of USA on actual stat evidence These things ar for media reely to waste timber on and rust ons to talk abouts , but peoples on polling vote on th Leader , there policys and on there opponents
GG , yep agree with you
Socrates , there is a third option that i’ve taken on principal , thats informal
Our toffyiness Turnbull history of dealing and wheeling , there is a excellent book on Kerry Pavcker for those interested inwhich our Malcolms gets a number of cameo appearances as Consolidated senior exec , then lawyer for Kerry then with tourang & Faifax takeovers etc
now as some know am not impressed with most USA media (either ‘left’ or right’ as they’re very biased for left or right , about equal to my views on there shallow pollies) but we hav unlike USA some good journos and th writer of book of th ‘rise and ris of Kerry Packer uncut’ is written by paul barry this guy was reporter on 4 corners , then hosted Media Watch then some CA on 7 , then reporter on ACA & 60 min and i like his works , 600 page book Note that ‘uncut’ is he wrote a similar book wwhen packer was alive & Packer threatened many defamations but with Kerry gone afar now , most of those defams stuff doesn’t allow so its now ‘uncut’
So guys tell th pretty lady that fathers day on sunday would be better with a book than a lawn mower , and Vera shout yourself a presi
Ron i have never interacted with you online but i was accused of being you yesterday on a silly us site. some people just believe they are right no matter what.
Will do Ron, cheers!
I see the Fibs are having yet another do in honour of the Rodent on friday in canberra. Smirk ain’t gunna be there, what a surprise!
But I mean when’s it going to end, seems they throw a gig for him every other month.
Talk about living in the past.
hey Greensborough Growler I feel a song coming on….Memories
@1
It’s called reprioritising. Rudd Labor has cut waste from the last Howard/Costello budget, to allow Labor to invest tens of billions of dollars in the education, health, and infrastructure funds. The $6b in taxes the Libs are going to block will reduce the budget surplus from $22b to $15b, something you don’t really want to do - but we can thank the Libs for leaving the incoming government with inflation running at 16-year highs, and a dozen interest rate rises giving Australia the second-highest interest rates in the developed world, despite promising to keep interest rates at “record lows” at the prior election.
And BTW, welcome back
It is amazing that the libs are lauding a loser, current destroyer of the Liberal Party Howard. Although they are probably thanking him for that great $1m tax free Superannuation gift they all received over 12 months ago.
Bill,
Great point. Some on this site are so consumed by what is happening in Australia. However, the fact is our interest rates were very high vis a vis our competitors and this was because of our relatively high inflation.
If Rudd and co can lance this demon now it will facilitate future investment in those important priorities you listed.
ruawake @54 :
Now thats funny.!
“Ron…but i was accused of being you yesterday on a silly US site.”
So to th USA unwanted infamy spreads , most people’s fame spreads expedentially on there popularity , mine is going in reverse…..I mean I wouldn’t mind if there were any royalties in it for me & William to hav a slab & wine on
Actualy there seems strange movement at th station , term ‘obamabot’ is a kindly term that admittedly I’d used numerous times on Pollbludger earlier in year , but according to a PB th Age Paper circulation 500,000 apparently subsequently said that ‘obamabot’ had been invented by a blogger ‘Ron’ , but no royalty cheques hav come from that either , typical capitalists never pay up
I’m allowing US election talk for the time being, if only because I’m too preoccupied to stop it, so I’m afraid the naysayers are going to have to put up with it.
yep lets keep our surplus in the bank so rich investors can make money out of it. Captured by financial investors and Mr Murray from the Commonwealth Bank who will invest the money in the sharemarket and currency markets..
Has anyone ever mentioned how much our treasury has lost doing this and it is taxpayers money.
Why do we need a surplus?
What happened to borrowing??? And bonds….
Economic ratiionalist nonsense yet again.
Yep Bill one day we will spend the money but when i ask.. Oh i forgot an election is due in eighteen months and it no doubt will be then.
Meanwhile we go without.
#51, I will NOT allow the Republican to claim the FIRST female POTUS.
I will say it again and again, like a parrot. It is all the fault of Obama. If only this little petulant twit has the manner and patience to wait a little longer and not disturb the mandate from heaven, none of this would have happened.
The best candidate is not even in the race, so i simply opting for the lesser of the two evils.
‘Hands up those who felt strangely unclean after reading Glenn Milne’s piece today? ”
Mines piece was quite critical of Costello, virtually said if he doesn’t step up to the plate it justifies Howards assessment of him not being up to it.
It is pretty clear now that the Libs are hopeless atm.
How long before Turnbull calls on the leadership challenge?
Nelson is dead man walking, all the lib heavyweights are lined up behind the deadman talking called Costello. Abbott is the dead man sqwaking and just demonstrates the futility of the Libs game plan.
The strategy is to keep Turnbull from the leadership. At what stage does he say, “Sod it, I’m the only one that can lead you rabble and take them on”.
If he wins he snatches the leadership.
If he loses, he goes to the backbench and waits for the call.
Does anyone believe that Nelson will lead the Libs in to the next election?
Rod
Is thos th same Glen Milne who in front of TV camera’s drunkedly boarded th Press Clubs Awards stage wishing to punch someone in nose , or ar there two of them with equal credibility
Thinking of Cossie’s economic manager’s alleged credibility , think office of finance under his watch may hav lost almost a billion or so in early 2000’s from memory on currency swaps , if so then that CV would not look good applying for a Public company Board job
Actualy , think they incurred initial currency swap losses , and then may hav breached there own fonance dept guidelines on levels trying to recove there losses and in fact increased them , that would make his CV better than my last post
GG,
No way Nelson will lead them to the next election.
Eventually Minchin and co will wake up to their essential choice: a loss under Turnbull that maintains the Coalition’s HoR representation at say 55-60, versus a loss under Nelson (or Abbott or even Bishop) that is a complete wipe-out. It’s not a hard decision.
Costello is not a starter and has never been a starter in my view. He said so on 25/11/07 and significantly he has never contradicted this.
I reckon all this stuffing around is about maximising interest in his book, which paints him in a very poor light.
Dyno,
The Libs always think they are in with a chance. Don’t disagree with your points about the machinations.
However, to win the leadership, Turnbull will have to make his own luck.
Eventually, the polls will have to be reflected in the Lib party room. Otherwise they are gone.
If I were Putin, I would find a pocketful of Alaskan natives [They include Inupiat, Yupik, Aleut, and several Native American peoples, including Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, Eyak, and a number of Northern Athabaskan peoples]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Natives
and get them to pledge allegiance to the old Czar Emperor at the time Alaska was sold to the USA for $9m. Give them Russian passports and then claimed that the Yanks have been doing ethnic cleaning of the old Czar subjects. Send troops across the Bering Strait to Alaska to protect the Russian citizens. This will really test the security credential of Obama and Michael Palin.
Finnigans,
Surely there must be a less complicated way to start WW III?
Dyno, at least it is fun ala Monty Python. This is how the POTUS election is looking to me now. It is frightening to think the most powerful position in the world has been turned into a joke.
Nelson on Lateline… this should be a hoot
Nelson is on LL
Did anyone see Four Corners tonight regarding the market power of Woolworths and Coles? I was a bit surprised by Graeme Samuels reaction to some evidence of supermarket leases that have clauses excluding any other competitor within 100 metres or for ten years or more (!!). Is that legal? Its not my field but I thought that would be a clear restraint of trade under the Trade Practices Act? Does anyone know?
If my suspicion is correct, why did Samuels merely say he was “very concerned”? What does concern have to do with it? If it is legal, his view is irrelevant. If it is illegal, then it is Samuel’s job to prosecute and prevent it. Surely it must be one or the other? Concern shouldn’t enter into it. Can someone advise on this please?
Socrates
It is legal. It’s basically the only restraint of trade contract which is legal. It has to be reasonable though, so you can’t stop a competitor moving in indefinitely. It’s pretty hard to challenge successfully.
There’s gotta be a few lawyers here but that’s my bush lawyers advice.
Vera, amigos GG & Ronnie,
a song, very tropical, for you:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lICk_uPAPfg
Nice one Finns.
Dio
Thanks. In that case our Trade Practices Act is a piece of crap that needs rewriting. I can think of at least two other countries I am familiar with through work (Canada and Austria) where that sort of condition would be illegal. Not surprisingly,
I have to say I found Samuels answers in the show very dissappointing. On several similar issues he didn’t say “this is a problem but its difficult to act in this case for legal reason X..”. He said that he saw no evidence of a problem, based purely on a macro-economic viewpoint. That just isn’t adequate. Anyone familiar with the ABS regional production figures would know that they are very weak and don’t reveal much about the structures of industries or the way they operate.
The Gun of Sarah Palin:
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-08/41999285.jpg
Samuels was pretty lame, wasn’t he?
Go Aldi!
89 TF - expect many many more such photos and out there statements of Palin to be found.
What about Nelson on Lateline?
“People have been underestimating me for 20 years”
No wonder. He tells the Reserve Bank to lower rates by 50 basis points. He belives in climate change, but not in Australia (re Murray Darling).
What a lightweight! The bloke is totally useless. And Turnbull, I can assure you, is just as bad.
Curly = Cossie
Larry = Allbull
Mo = Brenda
Finns @ 81,
Here’s a thought for you though: is Palin any scarier than the current crew?
I’m not sure, I’m still pondering this.
Why on Earth was Nelson at a forum named “Mastering Complexity”? Shouldn’t he be at a forum called “Stuffing up simplicity”?
And Rudd should go to one called “Making Simple Things Sound Complex”.
Is that thing dead?
No Dyno, Rudd would be at one called “Making Simple Things Sound, now if I take the first part of the statement second, and taking into account the second part first, can I begin by reiterating what I said in an eerlier response that it may in fact be Complex”
Another gate to add to the gate farm
Troopergate could dog Palin on campaign
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_troopergate;_ylt=AtSpB9QuTD4O1wj2lrTzdEtsnwcF
Does anyone know when Nelson received his Ph.D. in hydrology?
Was it during the Olympics? I must of missed it.
Finns - Have you seen this one?
Her T-shirt says “I may be broke but I’m not flat busted.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/sarah-palin-photos-a-bust_n_122816.html
“supermarket leases that have clauses excluding any other competitor within 100 metres or for ten years or more”
Reality & tricks and committment in houdini magic mirrors especialy section 50 Firstly leases ar written to comply with Act Secondly Landlords do not hav to provide competition within there propertys But Landlords can not prohibit so they ar not prohibiting competition by offering to lease more than 100 metres away Thirdly landlords in there building plans construct and then pre lease so space is not available Act is designed to prevent acts that diminish competition Then there is reality that all complex Shopping Centres ar already built , so can not pull them down & Samuels knows it
Answer does not lie in th Act in respect of supermarkets as there ar virtually only 2 anyway , and competition reely wouldn’t be improved if both were in every complex as they both massage prices between themselves cleverly , but within th Act So problem is not th Act but reely in th monopoly distribution sector of those 2 chains , and whether they could ever be dismantled or whether Audi’s etc can be encouraged
for those with a long memory-the fibs caught out trying to make mischief over a lame duck japanese pm and the worth of rudd visiting first.
fibs- liars and malcontents the lot of em
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/01/2352549.htm?section=justin
Japan PM Fukuda resigns
“The Government has been frustrated since the opposition won majority control of the Upper House of Parliament in an election in July last year.
Seventy-two-year-old Mr Fukuda stepped in to the job in October to replace Shinzo Abe, who also quit after less than a year in the job.”
Thomas Paine
What that link excludes re trooper and what MayoFeral’s earlier one on baby birth is all of info Media bias in selective reporting to BOTH Partys leaves th ‘australian’ for dead , terriblely hard to find reel objective & whole info
MayoFeral link actualy shows she was one month early not two months , but link also ommitted she checked with her doctor first even before her speech & if anyone wants minorness of water details I’ll supply them
Your link , regarding th Trooper (and not blaming you) but article omits the Trooper was “elegible” to be fired because he had been found guilty by Police of infractions with his former wife (sister of Palin) and using a Taser stun gun on his stepson Fox News , Rush Lumbragh etc on ‘right’ also use selective reporting
What we do not hav in ‘oz’ is a “left ” equivalent to th “Australian” My faith in most US Media and internet is low , ‘NYT’ is reasonable
ar you suggesting that seeing Nelson insisted that it was important for Kevin07 to visit th Japanese PM Mr Fukuda (now since resigned) that Nelson should follow his own advice and still visit him …sort of a meeting of 2 irrelevants
ron
simply put rudd is still two steps of the fibs.
for all their bleating about how important japan is, I think its best we let them sort themselves out before “popping in for a cuppa”.
well this example showed Rudd could read those cuppa tea leaves about Fukuda’s position did you see on ABC Nelsons unbelievable statement that he wants RBA to lower rates by 0.5% yet when questioned I think he said that he was PM he’d not direct th RBA , one rule in opposition and one rule in governent separated by one Q & A
ron
nelson is johnnys stalking horse to make sure the “legacy” theme is maintained.
now not that this gospel,but from putting 2 and 1 half together ,I actually feel for cossi ina funy sort of way.Even though the organ grinder has been turfed out ,the poor old monkey is still being frustrated by the dead hand of said organ grinder.
its not that cossi has no cojones,just that he cant get enough ballroom.
Gus
Yes that is beautifullly said
Guess it would be very heartless of me to suggest th reverse of your last sentense , he having none of th former and still cann’t enough ballroom
Nelson is reported in today’s Australian saying that he wont step aside for anybody, and that he’ll lead the Liberals to the next election.
He apparently has a secret deal with his wife to see the job through
This is of course highly reminiscent of his former leader John Winston Howard before the last election, when he said, after being beseeched by senior cabinet ministers to resign, that he had talked it over with Janet and the kids and they told him they wanted to remain the First Family, so there.
It’s good to see the consultative traditions of the Liberal Party being so faithfully carried on, with family values and aspirations being at the forefront, even taking precedence over the entirely vexatious and unnecessary concerns of the party leadership
Good for the Labor party that is.
Centre reported Nelson also said on LL
“People have been underestimating me for 20 years”
By how much , would hav been my next queston , like ar we talking a mm here
Well, well, well. I wonder what Turnbull, who claims that tomorrow’s interest rate reduction is a sad reflection of an under-performing economy, will have to say?
The Australian seems to be throwing in the towel on the “tanking economy, too:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279574-601,00.html
But, but, but…. Starbucks closed some shops! I thought no-one had any faith in the economy! Whaddabout Cadburys?
So, have Rudd and Swan talked the economy down? Ruined it with their socialist ineptitude? Should they be blamed for the latest upturn? Why do we need Cozzie to save us when it appears we never needed saving?
I’m confused.
BB “I’m confused”
Let me lead you to th light then , if you always turn th ‘oz’ upside down then it always makes more sense …then you can even assume th symbols ar chinese crosswords…predicting 2 terms of Keviin 07
I reckon there will be many ‘happy days’ ahead of many many interst rate decreases , unless a world calamity , so many many more good Kevin07 headlines for 18 months of interest rates going down , econamically don’t think thats too optimistic , although must say unemployment is likely t trend up a bit over that period
now reluctantly read that article , see what you mean , it predicts interst rates to go down for a long time but rest of article has confusing or some even contradictory comments , suppose this way th economics writer can never be wrong as he’s backed all th horses
What has Alexander Downer done since he’s gone to Cyprus??? Lot a lot!
(from the Cyprus Mail)
FOR THE first time since the disastrous Burgenstock lock-in four years ago, the leaders of the two communities will sit down for fully fledged negotiations this Wednesday.
The 2004 referenda left the Turkish Cypriots beating their chests about their “unjust isolation” while the abject lack of diplomatic charm in the Papadopoulos government had the Greek Cypriots feeling the same.
The voting public noted the lack of progress on the Cyprus problem in the last elections, leaving Papadopoulos out from the first round. The new government, headed by AKEL chief Demetris Christofias, promised to make an earnest start in ending the decades-old conflict. His Turkish Cypriot counterpart, Mehmet Ali Talat, offered the same.
Soon after Christofias came to power, the Ledra Street crossing was opened, and the two leaders soon set up six working groups and seven technical committees to prepare the groundwork for direct talks. The technical committees dealt with day-to-day issues and confidence-building measures while the working groups focused on the core elements of a future settlement (security and guarantees, territory, property, governance and power sharing, EU matters and the economy).
After a little flirting, some bickering, a few domestics and the odd dinner and wedding invite, Talat and Christofias finally agreed to a date and are now ready to start the next “big” effort to solve the Cyprus problem.
The omens are never bright in Cyprus but with the pro-solution AKP government still in power in Turkey, and two leftist comrades leading negotiations, one could say there is reason to put the zivania in the freezer, just in case.
The flare up on Friday after the Turkish Cypriot side refused to open the Limnitis checkpoint to allow Greek Cypriot pilgrims to visit Ayios Mamas in Morphou is a clear indication of how far apart the two sides remain and why that bottle of zirvania may never be opened.
The Sunday Mail asked Presidential Commissioner George Iacovou just what could be expected from this Wednesday’s first meeting.
“A nice photograph. It’s really the official kick-off but there’ll be no ball game on Wednesday,” said Iacovou.
The two leaders will meet in the cosy quarters of the UN Chief of Mission Taye-Brook Zerihoun, along with the new UN special envoy for Cyprus, the former Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, for a simple opening ceremony.
Downer will read a message from the UN Secretary General and give his own comments, after which the two leaders will each make a short statement. There’ll be an informal discussion and then a joint statement released. There’ll be no Beijing-style celebrations on Day One of The Talks.
“The premises don’t offer the services for a bigger show,” explained Iacovou.
A week later, September 10, will be the next meeting, where negotiations will start in earnest. The first subject has been suggested by Talat and approved by the Greek Cypriots, who will likely choose the topic of discussion for the following meeting.
The leaders will meet on average once a week, as prepared in advance. There’ll be no set day for the meetings, which will depend on their commitments. The first break in talks will come between September 20 and 28, when Christofias will be in New York for the UN General Assembly. The working groups will continue to perform both preparatory and detailed work.
“Once you get going, you need to put the negotiations into the shape of an agreement, so the working groups will be doing plenty of work,” said Iacovou.
While the two leaders have met informally several times, the preparatory work for direct talks was largely undertaken by the two aides, Iacovou and his younger Turkish Cypriot counterpart Ozdil Nami. The two were responsible for coordinating, supervising and evaluating the work of the technical committees and working groups.
Both Talat and Christofias have been keen to define the talks as a “Cyprus-owned” process. Though both don’t share the same view on when the process might end, they are in agreement that there will be no outside intervention or strict time frames, unlike 2004. As a result, the actual details of how the talks will be conducted remain specifically vague. Both leaders prefer to play it by ear and see how the first two or three meetings go.
According to diplomatic sources in New York, Downer will attend the meetings once a month for the first four months, and then move to Cyprus in 2009 to play a more hands-on role. In the meantime, it’s not yet clear whether Zerihoun will deputise in Downer’s absence for negotiations to be conducted in between meetings, using the now familiar Iacovou-Nami connection.
Speaking from Ankara last week, Talat predicted that the Cyprus problem could be solved by the end of the year. Given Downer’s planned living arrangements for next year, and lack of progress in the key issues of security and guarantees, territory and property, this seems a touch optimistic. It’s more likely the two leaders will take baby steps towards a solution, starting off with the easier issues before digging in to the more thornier chapters.
As for Downer’s role: “Downer will play a significant role. But the UN Security Council has agreed that this is a Cyprus-owned process. The UN or Downer won’t be taking initiatives or preparing documents unless the leaders ask them,” said Iacovou.
Asked whether Downer was in danger of becoming a glorified note-taker, the presidential aide replied: “No. It depends on his skills. If he’s sufficiently tactful and bright as opposed to abrupt or reacting on the spur of the moment, then he can make a lot of significant contributions.”
The official language of the talks is English. There is no cap on the number of people in each delegation, but the confines of space will probably set the maximum at five for each, including the UN team. The Greek Cypriot delegation will be made up of Christofias, Iacovou, a note-taker, interpreter for the odd moment when Talat expresses himself in Turkish, and a fifth person.
“We could use this fifth seat to rotate people. Depending on the subject, we could bring an expert or someone we trust,” said Iacovou.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008
Housing affordability gets a double boost today in Queensland with large State Government stamp duty cuts as well as the likely interest rate cut.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/qld-home-ownership-just-got-easier/2008/09/01/1220121110429.html
Now the locks have been changed keeping the Pineapple Party out of the Liberals $2 million headquarters in Brisbane.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279388-5006786,00.html
Oh dear, WTF is happening here. Must be the Alaskan cold:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-my-daughter-is-preg_n_122947.html
Is this a POTUS election or a soap opera?
“Now the locks have been changed keeping the Pineapple Party out”
Interesting story thanks steve.
Seems that the LNP cannot get their hands on the building as is held in trust account by the fed libs. I see a future court case as unhappy state libs led by Brough seek to keep state lib assests going to the LNP.
And another Costello story.
“All camps were unanimous yesterday that Mr Costello should state finally whether he was staying or going and stop taunting his colleagues and the public.”
I think he is right, getting more and more like the Jana olympic saga of past years and has just as much interest and respect as that did.
Watched the replay of question time of the HR. It was a pleasure, no shouting or abuse at the Opposition. Dorothy Dixer’s from the Government side and continued questions to the PM from the Opposition re the economy since 26th Nov 07. CPI up,economy down, people’s earning down, inflation up etc.
Where the PM Rudd (gee that still feels good), answered calmly and confidentially, of course he used some figures to de bunk some, such as peoples earnings, where the figures were showing a 2.5% increase in income but any downturn in earnings was due to the huge fall in the Stock Market which was out of the govt’s hands and the World economy. Also Kevin Rudd accused the Opposition of talking the economy down.
The PM also blamed the lack of infrastructure for creating a bottle neck in our exports. Who was responsible for this lack of infrastructure?
All together now - THE HOWARD/COSTELLO Government.
Muskiemp @ 120 : Personally speaking, PM Rudd is just so different in style to Howard & Co. No ranting, raving etc. Some may say it is bland, but he is making some very good appointments The new Chief Justice should be applauded,
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279488-5013172,00.html
Shows how really easy it was to say sorry and give respect for pasts mistakes, and how petty Howard & Co really were.
Re Aussieguru @ 115
So much for a united Cyprus then . . . Will this result in war between Turkey and Greece?
Seems McCain would have been better with Cleese. Pick up the languishing humor vote.
Palin looks like being the gift that keeps on giving.
IMO she has shown very poor judgement in boarding a plane with a seven hour trip ahead at 36 weeks pregnant with her waters broken and a baby with Down Syndrome. Babies with Down Syndrome often need ICU after delivery as they frequently have cardiac problems. You could argue that she was recklessly indifferent.
PS I should add in her defense that the rumour about her daughter really being the mother of the child is pretty ridiculous. The chance of a 16 yo girl having a child with Down Syndrome is negligible (1 in 1250) whereas a 42 yo would have a much higher chance (1 in 60) as the incidence of having a child with Down Syndrome increases with maternal age.
Yes Diogenes assuming that they picked Palin to appeal to the fundy vote, there are a few risks apparent now. First, why isn’t she staying at home looking after that new born disabled child that needs care? Not to mention that unmarried pregnant daughter. Speaking of which, that brings us to the second problem… Maybe they better vote for a nice responsible, stable Democrat family man instead. ROTFL
As soon as you see stuff like this, you know it’s going bad.
It also turns out Palin was a member of some nutter political group that wanted Alaska to secede from the US.
You would think Palin would have offered up all this information when being vetted as she and the GOP would have expected a thorough digging around by the media and Democrats. Hopefully McCain didn’t know all this stuff before hand but still decided to proceed.
Seeing her with a child posing next to a freshly killed Stag is hardly the homely family image you want to convery - or maybe in the USA it is.
I find it remarkable that its OK for th sleeze to be for oiliness but not against oiliness WTF we hav experts knowing more than th family doctor , WTF we have 17 year old kids personal lives subject to ridicule , and yet so much outragousness if such gutter politics is instead used against a ‘left’ candidate Double standards can come back to bite
But then red herrings still don’t change a phoney being any less a phoney , but it gives meaning to th message “a new style of politcs”
I like our aussie Kevin Rudd’s “old style of politcs” , standards , contempt for sleeze , and principals…and yesterday in Q & A he displayed that but was still able to dismantle Liberal attacks with dignity, stats and logic
“..she was a member for two years in the 1990 of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede..”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Actually all this stuff is not that much out of the ordinary but the US media will latch onto anything ‘interesting’ aka Rudd/Murdoch/Scores/Childhood/not knowing tax scales/ etc
The only distasteful sounding and potential damaging thing would be a possible abuse of powers in trying to have a State Trooper sacked.
And I am sure they would latch onto anything they could dig up on Obama as well, not as though there isn’t enough right-wing media in the USA.
126
Diogenes
She may well still be part of it. Who knows?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/1/4231/18477/878/581881
Finns @ 86
You’re wicked!
Fats had better make one of those 2 pairs of shoes he needs walking to New Orleans gum boots.
Here’s a thought!
Limelight seeking Oilbama has hardly got a mention since Palin came on the sceen, bet he’s sulking big time.
And I don’t reckon the hillbilly, factory workers, dirt farmer type that Oil needs would give a stuff if she gave birth to an alien with 2 heads, lol.
She’s their kinda woman. Hell being unmarried and having a kid when you’re 14 is the norm for them folk. Just ask Jerry Springer!
Gaffhook
So she’s infiltrated the Repugs to help Alaska secede hey! Isn’t that Unamerican? Didn’t Georgia and Russia have a war over South Ossetia wanting to secede?
Ron
It’s background, not sleaze. The public has a right to know. Who am I to tell the voting public what is relevant and what isn’t?
‘would’ should be wouldn’t
Diogenes,
You may be besotted by the sleaze. However, this is the only type of background that really counts.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/481733.html
The hillbilly factory workers were never going to vote for Obama anyway. It wouldn’t matter who was on the Republican ticket…
GG
Read the comments on that link. Like this one;
Yippy!
Break out the Bud-Light!
Our government just passed a law allowing themselves to stuff $500 mn into a giant burn barrel and set it ablaze! It’s an ‘amazing achivement’ alright. Duped again by a soothsaying poltico Alaska, way to go!
Well what now folks?
I wonder who is going to get a FERC certification and a successful open season? Will it be TC with zero nat gas reserves, $500 mn in public funding and a cereal box AGIA ‘license’ or will it be the leaseholding producers that have billions in capitol and trillions of cubic feet of nat gas to sell?
Hmmm…
Dario
Strange that? So you are saying the poorest lowest paid in the USA always vote Repub?
I’ll admit I don’t have the interest or inclination to delve deep into US politics but I thought Democrats = Labor, Repubs = Fibs?
Blimey sorry I got it so wrong, all these years I shoulda been cheering for Bush! Yikes!
vera
It’s a much debated point exactly how true it is but the conventional wisdom is that if you live in a small town, own a gun, and barely make enough to survive despite working like a dog then you vote Repug. It’s why we keep losing. Bill Clinton got enough to vote for him to win but he’s about it.
There’s a great book on it called “Deer Hunting With Jesus” by Baigent.
Diogenes, the sad thing is that perhaps Hillary may have been able to do the same with Bill’s help.
we’ll never know now.
I think you can explain the Republican vote by Howard’s line of the “aspirational voter”. Its the rich and those who long to be rich (the poor) that vote for them. Those in the middle are more likely to vote Democrat.
It wasn’t always like that - after Roosevelt’s new deal in the 30s the poor vote was solidly Democrat for a long time. But LBJs decision to end segregation in the 60s cost the Democrats the poor white vote from then on. Poor blacks still vote Democrat.
vera
As an Obama supporter even I admit that Hillary would have won more easily than Obama (probably) will. She had that Appalacian redneck vote in the palm of her hand.
vera and Socrates
When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act it into law he acknowledged that he “lost the South for the Democrats for at least a generation” which proved to be true.
Back to Australina politics, and at the risk of rubbing it in, another bad news story about the financing of Gunns pulp mill:
http://business.smh.com.au/business/forests-threat-for-gunns-20080902-47mv.html?page=1
As I have said for a while, the economics of the pulp mill proposal were always very suspect. Gunns were basically hoping to get all the approvals and then flog off some of teh ownership to whoever to raise the cash to build it. But as the article shows, they (Gunns) still have a lot of debt and already have enough trouble refinancing their existing operation. Still no sign of the identity of the alleged foreign investor Gunns referred to before.
Oh, and the Reserve cut rates by 25bp. Nostradamus Nelson fails again.
#79 & #80
Dyno - [Finnigans, Surely there must be a less complicated way to start WW III?] & [Secessionist Sarah: VP pick Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party]
Dyno, i was right, something is fishy at Anchorage. LOL, it has been rejected by John West.
Dont tell me Sarah Palin is a Russian’s mole. Is the Alaska Independence Party seeking to re-join the Russian Motherland?
Ron @ 104 -
MayoFeral link actualy shows she was one month early not two months , but link also ommitted she checked with her doctor first even before her speech
That link does indeed state that she was 1 month premature, but I’d already seen other information that the child was born at about 35-36 weeks. Normal gestation is 42 weeks.
Since my first post on the subject I’ve learnt that Palin’s flight wasn’t direct but included a stop in Seattle which adds at least another 30 minutes to the journey, and more likely 60-90 minutes.
I wonder what the FAA regulations on transporting women in labour are? Pretty sure it’d be an outright ban considering that:
A state governor would not be exempt from a federal regulation, nor would her doctor!
Your link , regarding th Trooper (and not blaming you) but article omits the Trooper was “elegible” to be fired because he had been found guilty by Police of infractions with his former wife (sister of Palin) and using a Taser stun gun on his stepson Fox News
So? Surely that was a decision for his superiors, not the governor of the state?
Seems this woman has as little regard for the law as the current President which might be telling us a lot about why she got the gig.
MF
Just quietly, normal gestation is 40 weeks.
Finns
When that $500M Alaskan gas pipeline turns out to go across the Bering Strait into Russia all will become clear.
From the Newspoll thread:
743
Socrates Says:
September 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
I think we are all agreed on Turnbull: he is not up to running the economy. He never was. He is a smart lawyer and a deal maker. That was the world he worked in and was very succesful in. But I doubt he’s ever done any economic analysis. Without treasury and finance experts to brief him and make him look good, he will struggle.
Turnbull has his fair share of potentially fatal flaws. But it would be a serious mistake to underestimate him, he is very sharp and a very quick learner.
••••••••••••••••••
143
Diogenes Says:
As an Obama supporter even I admit that Hillary would have won more easily than Obama (probably) will. She had that Appalacian redneck vote in the palm of her hand.
Is there any good poll data about this? On the face of it I would have thought Hillary would have been almost as unpopular in that demographic as Obama.
(Not challenging you, I am genuinely interested in this question.)
Turnbull may be sharp, but he is no politician. He’s the man who lost the unlosable Republic Referendum, don’t forget. Mostly by being a smartarse about it.
Not only does he grate on his own party, but he would be rejected by the public for this trait as well.
Just Me
These are painful memories for me. We got flogged by Hillary in the redneck states of West Virginia (about 65-35), Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Indiana and Ohio with monotonous regularity. We won the redneck Carolinas based largely on the black vote. Ron beat us around the head with it endlessly.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/can+barack+obama+win+the+appalachian+redneck+vote/2436192
151
Bushfire Bill Says:
Turnbull may be sharp, but he is no politician.
Not yet.
He’s the man who lost the unlosable Republic Referendum, don’t forget. Mostly by being a smartarse about it.
I know it is fashionable to blame Turnbull for that loss, and he certainly has to wear some of the blame for it, but it is more complicated than that. The referendum was basically doomed from the start because Howard rigged it by demanding the convention produce a specific model for people to vote first time round, instead of going for a plebiscite, then a binding vote on the particular model. It was a totally inappropriate process, and Howard knew it.
I still say it would be foolish to underestimate what Turnbull is capable of, and to write him off as a serious political opponent. He may well turn out to be complete turkey as a pollie. But it ain’t certain yet. I am reserving my judgement on him for now.
Diogenes
These are painful memories for me. We got flogged by Hillary in the redneck states of West Virginia (about 65-35), Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Indiana and Ohio with monotonous regularity.
Fair enough, though that does not prove that those voters would still preference Hillary over McCain.
#152 Diog [These are painful memories for me. We got flogged by Hillary] - I can assume that you would commit a hara-kiri when Obama loses the unloseable election in November.
Julie Bishop was on Agenda saying the the RBA lowered interest rates because it was worried about unemployment.
The RBA actually said “…there have also been some signs of an easing in labour market conditions.”
Thats it. “Some signs” becomes the “reason” in the Fibs parallel universe of voodoo economics.
The first interest rate cut in seven years - I wonder when Labor will have a tpp with a six in front of it?
If there were/are signs of easing in labour market conditions, I’d have though this would be largely the cumulative effect of the interest rate rises (10 of which were under the Liebrals’ watch).
I notice the Liberals bleating on about low consumer confidence, attempting (dishonestly as always) to draw a cause-and-effect connection between this and the change of government.
What they never say is that the rate rises were meant to curb consumer confidence, to get people to stop spending so inflation cools.
That being the case, the blame for lowered consumer confidence should by rights be put back into the Liberals’ lap - as presiders over 10 of the 12 confidence-curbing rate increases.
Diogenes, Finns There really isn’t any evidence that Hilary Clinton would be doing better than Obama against McCain. With the GOP seeming to have somewhere near 40% rusted on conservatives and fundamentalist Christian supporters its easy for the Dems to get pulled apart/pull themselves apart when they are trying to balance support from various constituencies.
Despite the heat of the primaries Obama still seems to have GOP/McCain on the run otherwise they would not have made such a spectacular gamble as Palin for VP. Trying to stop the listing of the polar bear as a threatened species by the Bush administration and denying human impact on global warming as the Arctic ice-cap disappears potentially taking a lot of polar bears with it hardly seems to be mainstream conservative or popular (except no doubt in Alaska where oil wealth rules).
McCain ‘they’ say needed a surprise out of the blue candidate to resurect interest in his campaign.
He certainly got it with Palin but looks as though the media focus is going to be a net negative with most being on the odd things about her life which, is going to make her look awfully undeserving and unsuited to be VP by campaigns end.
It has also been noted that Palin herself gave birth 8 months after getting married which is no big deal for anybody, unless you are a fundy Christian against the teaching of sex education in schools and favour teaching abstinence.
Does Palin have to debate Biden?
The vultures are circling and a crowd of voyeurs are gathering to see a grissly dismembering, maybe.
ruawake
I think Possum worked out that each 0.25% change in RBA rate equated to a 2% change in TPP. And there’s more to come.
Please explain!!
If so, how did her 17 years old daughter find out what it is, what it is for, what to do and how to do it.
Turnbull is not sharp. And he is definitely no politician. I will tell you what Turnbull is:
ALL PERCEPTION - NO SUBSTANCE! Truly.
Not enough parental supervision. Dad’s away on an oil rig. Mom’s busy being governor and plenty of boys around to show the Governor’s daughter what, uhm, bristols are for.
The Libs are wailing like vampires denied a juicy village virgin for dinner. Today’s news on interest rates was like spinkling Dracula with Holy Water.
“Aaaaargh! It burns! It burrrrnsss!”
While not claiming that Labor can take all the credit for what looks like will be a coming road to recovery, they certainly didn’t drop the ball, either.
* A responsible Budget: a nice mix of tax cuts and spending (remember how all the critics said that going ahead with the cuts was economic suicide?)
* A suitably finger-wagging lecture to the Aspirationals for over-spending (seems they got the message)
* Concrete steps to enforce market conditions on the Banks.
* Looming large increases in government infrastructure spending (leading to greater productivity, which is not of itself inflationary).
The Coalition’s wailing response to all this was to ask how many would lose their jobs as a result of an assumed economic downturn. Turnbull even asked “Is this the downturn we had to have?”. But unemployment last time I checked was at a record low, so WTF was Turnbull on about? He couldn’t be “talking the economy down, could he?”.
Already private investment figures are looking the best they have for years… as is the trade deficit… as are business profit expectations.
Put all the good indicators together and it looks like Labor haven’t done a bad job at all of staving off recession.
A for the other mob. They’re history.
No wonder Costello wasn’t in Parliament today to face the music.
AHHAAA. Now we know why the Pope and Pell wanted you to populate the planet. Because they don’t want you to have sex without contraception. No wonder Palin has had 5 kids and now her teenage daughter has had a kid.
What a SICK SICK SICK religion. What business is it of theirs how people get their jollies. Kaarriisst.
Why dosen’t the catholic church do something constructive with their billions, instead of worrying about what people do with their sex lives. Sheezus.
Got to check out the second half of QT today. Turnbull asked Swan a question about the rate cut and unemployment, and Swanny let rip and tore them to shreds. He was outstanding.
MSM note: That’s (Costello) not a parliamentary performer. That’s (Swan) a parliamentary performer.
in parliment Swan is calling Brenda !st choice, Allbull 2nd choice and Smirk 3rd choice.
And to think everyone was calling Swanny the weakest link, saying he wouldn’t last, not too long ago.
Yes Vera. I remember Wilson Tucky calling out in QT to “give Swanny a go” in answering a question. I bet he wont be doing that again.
Before the budget, Turnbull was actually preferred treasurer miles ahead of Swan. Now it’s the opposite. Now, even Cossie is miles ahead as preferred leader.
There is something uncanny about the ability of the electorate to judge character. They know Allbull is, all perception - no substance.
Finns
I think we are selling the young man short. His name is Levi Johnson. From his website;
I’ll take that as a denial that the kid is his.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09012008/news/nationalnews/palin_admits_her_17_year_old_daughter_is_127025.htm
Talcum just proved what a dill he is on the 7.30 report. He tied himself in knots over interest rates and then resorted to the Smirk when asked about the damage to the Liberal brand that Tip was causing.
What a pack of whimps - someone do something, we need an opposition.
164 Centre - yep Swan was in very fine form today - but to be honest he has been since the budget. He has had to wear the preseption of useless parliamentary performer due to his perfromance in the first 2-3 weeks of the year; but he ain’t no bunny anymore - Turnbull needed to get him out cheaply - he didn’t and now Swan is looking set for a big score.
and btw “preseption” is a fancy way of spelling perception.
Centre
I have met Swan and he is highly intelligent and can have a sharp tongue when required. He preferred not to be in the limelight but he was Labor state secretary in the critical period leading up to the election of Goss. I would say that he and Beatty were the best performers in that job by far in the last two decades.
Swan did handle QT very well so too Rudd. The Opposition just continued from yesterday, being irrelevant and doing the blame game and taking no responsibility for their work in letting out the inflation genie, even after numerous warnings from the RBA.
Regarding inflation and government spending lets not forget that despite the rate rises and RBA warnings, and the leaked speech by Dr Henry last year, The Drunken Sailor was still promising to increase spending even further in the last election campaign. Overspending was like Workchoices for Howard - a personal hobby horse tactic he couldn’t let go of. The Liberals own the current inflation and interest rate rises as badly as Keating owned the 2001 recession. The fact that Labor has got them trending down after one budget shows that it wasn’t inevtable. Our interest rates under Howard were amoung the highest in the OECD. And all that spending was done without adequate investment in infrastructure or technical skill training. You can still smell the embers of the pork BBQ.
I missed Turnbull on 7:30 Report, but he couldn’t have been worse than he was on AM this morning: check it out:
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well there is wide spread confidence in the market that the reserve bank is going to cut rates.
LYNDAL CURTIS: But most people are saying by a quarter of a per cent.
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Most but not all, I mean Brendan Nelson has been standing up for homebuyers and for borrowers. …
Wayne Swan when it was three per cent, said inflation is out of control. He said the Genie is out of the bottle and he said it again and again and just before the Reserve Bank met. So what Wayne Swan did was he stoked inflationary expectations and he egged the Reserve Bank on to put up rates.
LYNDAL CURTIS: But isn’t Doctor Nelson egging the Reserve Bank on to cut them by half a per cent?
MALCOLM TURNBULL: Brendan Nelson is standing up for homebuyers;
Yep it’s true he did actually think that arguemtn had merit:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2352657.htm
Vera
Ignore th information you got told today , working class workers States like Ohio , West West Virginia , Pennsylvania usually vote Democrat when th candidate is not an elitist like Obama and has practical Labor type policys , which is why Bill Clinton won such States (twice) , as did Jimmy Carter , LBJ When Democrats pick an oiliness type elitist and/or lack of working familys policys then working class familys see th bullsh.t & usualy instead vote Republican Same reason Hillary smashed Obama in all th working class workers States Yes Hillary smashed McCain too in polls in those States as well
Thats now past history & choice is between oiliness & a maverick & neither for me As to info on th Lady today you can dustbin that also , inaccurate & incomplete
Saw toffyiness TURNBULL on 7.30 tonite and he fluffed his lines on interst rates , did not know econamic rational at all , but his smirk when challenged is B grade compared to Cossies
Ron
It has begun. Intrade has a new category to bet on;
Sarah Palin to be withdrawn as Republican VP nominee before 2008 presidential election.
Currently at 15.0% up from 3.0%.
McCain is an idiot.
Grog, Socrates & Muskiemp, yes, the ALP does have a very strong line up. In finance and as possible future leaders (after Rudd breaks Hawkies record).
Instead of playing cheap opportunistic politics with everything, the tactics that I would recommend to the fiberals if I was one of their advisors would be to me-too with the fair enough policies and try to devolop your own policies that would be effective for the economy. They can’t keep doing what they are doing at the moment, they are heading for a 100+ seats defeat.
2010 is a long way off yet Centre; but so long as interest rates don’t go back up (cue 15 minutes of interest rate sunshine speeches) they’re looking pretty solid.
He may have made a fool of himself on The 7.30 Report tonight, but what pi$$ed me off was that turnbull was interviewed at all.
This was Labor’s day, not Turnbull’s, with his fairy stories about “talking the economy down”.
Dio, I was wondering how long it would take for that market to appear.
What sort of outfit chooses a Veep and then does the vetting?
A desperate one.
How stupid is American politics - reports are coming out that Palin’s husband may have been arrested for drink driving more than 20 years ago.
Wow geez Batman better get Commissioner Gordon on the phone to let him know about that one. I mean wtf! 20 years ago??? her husband??? And they wonder why they struggle to come up good candidates - why would anyone good want to run?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24280358-601,00.html
Possum
PaddyPower has her at 33/1 to be dropped before Sunday and 14/1 to be dropped before the election.
Lieberman is now at 6/1 on Betfair to be VP.
Surely he HAS to stay with her now.
BB
It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
It might be better to let Allbull reinforce the thought in the public’s mind that the rate cut is only happening because they voted AGAINST the idiot on the box.
Sure, a rate cut is good, but rates in general must surely be in the ‘negative’ pile?
No one likes someone bragging about something they didn’t really do anyway.
What Allbull is doing is telling somone who’s found $50 on the footpath that they’re unlucky…who is going to believe him? His mommy might listen to him and nod a little, but that’s about it
TP, McCain got what he wanted and needed with Palin- a huge jolt to the contest. The initial favourable responses to her looks and gender are sure to be eclipsed by the skeletons and her lack of experience
Grog
It’s happened before in 1972. Eagleton was McGovern’s Dem running mate until it came out that he had a fairly serious mental illness which had required shock therapy on two occasions. He had to withdraw. Of course McGovern went on to get the hiding of all time from Nixon, winning every state except Massachusetts.
184 - I agree. Nothing to be gained by gloating. Let the monthly mortgage statements do the gloating for you.
Turnbull’s transcript is now up on the 7:30 website:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2353568.htm
here’s a classic snippet:
MALCOLM TURNBULL: I am not exaggerating. Look, all I’m saying is this: had we been governed by leaders who were responsible, and who had the economic interests of this country at heart, we would have had lower interest rates, the cost of money would have been lower, both in terms of the credit squeeze would have been less severe here, and I don’t believe the Reserve Bank would have put up rates twice if Wayne Swan had been more responsible at the beginning of the year.
!!!! Yep read it a few times; it’ll makes sense one day… (well, one can only assume)
The selection of Palin has given much opportunity for the media to mock the GOP.
Which this piece of mocking humor at the Washington Post does.
Just to show that he would not ask of others what he would not do himself, McCain came before Chris Wallace to sing Palin’s praises. He said that he had “watched her record . . . for many, many years” which is, a prudent man might say, more years than she’s had a record. McCain, as a fellow military man, did not mention Palin’s tenure as the supreme commander of the entire Alaska National Guard, maybe because he thought it speaks for itself. If that’s the case, he’s right.
Probably the most depressing thing about Palin is not her selection but the defense of it. It has produced a parade of GOP spokesmen intent on spiking the needle on a polygraph. Looking right into the camera, they offer statement after statement that they hope the voters will swallow but that history will forget. The sum effect on the diligent news consumer is a feeling of consummate contempt for the intelligence of the American people — a contempt that will be justified should Palin be the factor that makes McCain a winner in November.
In 1959, the novelist Terry Southern published “The Magic Christian,” a darkly comic tale based on the premise that people will do anything for money. The choice of Palin proves that people will also do anything for political power — including rising early on a holiday weekend to make fools of themselves.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090101715.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
186 Diogenese, cheers - didn’t know about that (my main knowledge of that election comes from All the President’s Men, where McGovern is talked about offering the VP slot to…err everyone)
That we’re comparing McCain to McGovern says a fair bit I’d suggest.
Diogenes @ 176 -
McCain is an idiot.
No. He’s a reckless loose cannon as his military career, and now his VP pick demonstrate.
Which makes him far more dangerous that the current President. GWB may be a lazy twit, but there are limits to his bravado. McCain won’t be as timid, particularly if he’s not playing with American lives. Georgia seems to be an example if the whispers about his involvement in egging on his old pal Mikheil Saakashvili are true.
If i recall correctly, Saul Eastlake of ANZ was predicting tonight that:
1. Two more interest cuts this year to 6.5%
2. Four cuts in 2009 to 5.5%
3. Two more in 2010 to 5%
So that will be 9 cuts over 3 years of the Rudd Government as it sails near the election in 2010. No wonder Cossie is furiously paddling the other way.
“(cue 15 minutes of interest rate sunshine speeches)”
There is no bully in a dark suit this time and the reserve bank minutes are now made public.
“Trooper was “elegible” to be fired because he had been found guilty of using a Taser stun gun on his stepson”
You’re not allowed to use tasers on your kids!!??
When did this become law?
Finns if Eastlake is right (I don’t think they will fall that much) the liberals will be in for a massacre in 2010.
I find it interesting that the Libs claim low interest rates are an absolute good.
Yet, to get to low interest rates you have to have falling interest rates beforehand.
And today they are saying that falling interest rates are bad.
I don’t get it.
Am I supposed to?
Centre, i recall rather incorrectly, this is the actual quote from Saul Eastlake. It is still a pretty good cycle to sail into the election year in 2010:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2353661.htm
Didn’t realise all was not posted , “eligible” to be fired , meant he was not a police officer with an impecable record nor one to be held up to community as a role model policeman Police investigations hav found th trooper guilty of several infractions , including using a Taser stun gun on his stepson , and also he has been reprimanded for violating nearly a dozen laws and departmental policies since December 2001 & in police parlance not good
195
I think whether you ‘get it’ or not depends on how you voted recently.
Those who voted for the loser find it easy to understand, while those who voted for the government don’t.
odd eh?
It’s soo much fun using ‘allbull logic’ where heading toward the good (low interest rates) is B A D bad; for example:
If you’re in Melbourne and you want to get to Sydney - head toward Perth,
If you want to boil the kettle - turn on the switch, but then remove the plug,
it’s endless fun…(and oh-so successful)
The fibs haven’t yet worked out that the easy availability of media also allows the easy access to news and opinion other than the old media. I know they don’t know it exists, but surely one of their minders does??
Still, I guess they deserve some credit for even being in the game - imagine how you’d be doing if your knowledge was limited to what Murdoch thought you needed to know?
(What’s worse is that our former national broadcaster wants to grow up to be just like Rupert)
So what? It still requires due process to get someone fired. And when you can’t get him fired you don’t then fire the boss who refused to fire him.
any home with kids should have a Taser
“you don’t then fire the boss who refused to fire him.”
The boss has publicly stated he never received any such instruction ! Furthermore has said she/he did not even discuss it Policeman’s bad record & his continued employment was discussed at lower levels by Administration as it should hav been , apparently his ‘record’ was an embarassment Thats why there is an Inquiry
Th “accuser” is an ex Republican turned Independent who got thrashed by th Lady in last governor’s election !! Hardly an unbiased “accuser” more like a vendetta , unless you believe despite that th Police Chief allegedly instructed has publicly lied , plus th Lady But partisan people will believe anything circumstantial one way but not in reverse
Problem with th Lady may be politcal experience in Washington
Have it your own way Ron. I can’t be bothered arguing with you.
above facts speak for themselves , which is totally inconsistent with your unsubstustiated statement , thats why there is an inquiry
Someone didn’t vet Palin properly. A mistake they could very well come to regret.
Agree 100% with that Gary , usually politcal “operatives” do it , current information suggests that on our Laws basis someone is innocent until proven guilty so she’d likely be found innocent , but politcally just mere allegation should hav been enough to disqualify her as it allows negative storys
Plus experience factor am surprised wasn’t taken more into account
Yeah, they buggered it up royally
McCain suffers some damage out of this. He has chosen a person that might actually damage his position rather than enhance it. These from left-field decisions are supposed to be one his qualities, however it might prove a bit scary in the role of President.
I would rather have an intellectual deciding how to deal with international issues such as China and Russia than an unpredictable McCain or Palin if he should become indisposed. In addition I would rather not have the old Bush crowd continuing to influence foreign policy.
I wonder how long the Democrats will start to run the line of not risking someone ‘erratic’ running foreign policy?
yep Dario , baby story was nothing she’d consulted her doctor first , her 17 year old daughter’ pregnancy don’t think belongs on Worldwide media anyway & probably was a plus actualty now , but th Police one despite his numerous police violations is just not smart politics/vetting as allegations whether unproven still ar very damaging so she shouldn’t hav been considered
Of course choice was not very good either , th religous nutter th Huck , th Morman , and th 3 wives & strange life styles man Mr Rudi
Wish Economists from same Bank could agree , within just 24 hours
Saul Eastlake, ANZ BANK Chief Economist , ( said tonite)
I would venture that we’ll see ONE more this year, THREE during 2009, and possibly TWO in the first half of 2010
The Warren Hogan ANZ NANK head of Australian economics, (said last nite)
the financial markets were still expecting today’s interest rate cut to be followed by a further TWO cuts this year, and another TWO or THREE rate cuts in 2009 , did NOT mention anything re 2010
I,m anti war anti Bush anti Repub but I see things a bit different from most here.
Seems to me the Lady (as Ron calls her) has got Oilbama’s lot in a real flap. Otherwise why would they feel the need for personal attacks, ridicule and half truths, attacks on kids and hubbie (geez I could be talking about Rodent smeer and scare tactics! the Latham dirt files come to mind.) If she was such a dud wouldn’t they wan’t to keep her around the same way we love having Brenda to laugh at?
One thing for sure she’s getting all the publicity, mostly negative maybe, but I imagine the TV audience she gets when she makes her VP acceptance speech will make Oilbama’s speech ratings pale to insignifigance. Everyone want’s to check her out be they hoping for her to flop or to excel.
And O’s lot had better hope like hell that her speech isn’t a ripper or instead of talk of replacing her she may end up with Mccains job!
Hi Vera ,
i’ve given a politcal opinion about th allegation that I think sh’d be found innocent of if you look at my #201 and #197 , think its unfair & not ‘oz’ fair go
REMEMBER VP Joe biden agrees with bush’s Iraq policy and PUBLICLY says ‘USA should stay th course and ‘win’ ”
COMPARE THAT TO and you ar going to LOVE this
“I want to know that we have an exit plan (from Iraq) in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe. Every life lost is such a tragedy. I am very, very proud of the troops we have in Alaska, those fighting overseas for our freedoms, and the families here who are making so many sacrifices.
We are a nation at war and in many [ways] the reasons for war are fights over energy sources, which is nonsensical when you consider that domestically we have the supplies ready to go. Palin also stipulated that a clear exit plan for Iraq should not include concerns with oil or energy dependence, saying, “I’m a mom, and my son is going to get deployed in September, and we better have a real clear plan for this war. And it better not have to do with oil and dependence on foreign energy.”
Wonder whether Obama supporters will post here to support her opinion or Joe Biden’s ?
More good news for the economy and the government.
Oil Falls Toward $107 as Hurricane Fades
Oil slid to around $107 a barrel on Tuesday after initial reports showed Hurricane Gustav had spared major U.S. Gulf oil facilities.
U.S. crude was $107.16 a barrel by 9:21 a.m. EDT, down $8.30 from Friday’s close. It touched a session low of $105.46, its lowest since April 2.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-markets-oil.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Another thing McCain has done in choosing Palin is that she will attract a lot of attention and distract some attention from McCain and, her performances will reflect on McCain. People will want to interview her more and quiz her more than usual.
She has a tough job in front of her. If they try to protect her too much it will show. I guess she is doing a lot of study. If she can come over as at least credible politician then good for McCain.
hello Ron
I think people are so anxious to see the back of Bush’s lot that they don’t want to even think of the posibility of the Democrats not winning.
me I’m a bit of a worry wort so consider the negatives a bit more lol
Ron, just reread you post and I like the fact she says the Iraq war was over oil
Vera , your first sentence hit th jackpot 100% with peoples thinking , any non Republican & so all th evidence oiliness has a sleezy history & is a phony is ignored Dis you notice th lady’s Iraq policy to get out of Iraq is firmer than Obama’s and owns up to th reelreason US ar there , oil not ‘democracy she cut thru th bullsh.t , average people like that
Apparently Mccain took $47 million for his campaign in August. I wonder how much was taken after his VP announcement?
wonder how many will answer my question (last sentence of #211) , Obama has over 300 million and don’t let anyone tell you its mums & dads $20 donation from a milion internet donors , hav been through th list many many hours , Lobbyists , Oil , insurance Lawyers etc
Reckon th Ladys Iraq opinion to get out & its about oil will be received well as VP vs Biden’s war mongering view his idea could be 20 years in iraq
September 2, 2008
The Democratic convention appears to have helped solidify support for Barack Obama among former Hillary Clinton supporters, with the percent saying they will vote for Obama in November moving from 70% pre-convention to 81% after the convention, and the percent certain to vote for Obama jumping from 47% to 65%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109957/Obama-Gains-Among-Former-Clinton-Supporters.aspx
Palin however does speak well.
Here she is congratulating the Alaskan Independence Party convention 2008.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/sarah_palin_and_the_fringe_ala.html
Why do Gallup do a Poll between 2 conventions , instead of after both so you get a reel picture , except to make money
How can you support Biden’s Iraq policy over th Lady’s Iraq policy because I like hers , and am not impressed with non ‘oz’ ie US style dirty politcs concentrating away from reel policy issues (both VP’s on Iraq hav there Partys mixed up)
For those that like a bit of humour…..the brilliant Bill Leak.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/opinion/cartoons/
regardless of what side you are on in the POTUS debate here, this is pure gold. !
New South Welshies need a local council election thread William! (I know, it’s boring council elections, but the most colourful loonies come out to play).
This guy and his ilk aren’t colourful, they’re just plain deluded:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/candidates-play-white-australia-card/2008/09/02/1220121234486.html
The Shire xenophobic?
Mr Hodges – along with those who plan on voting for him - should be informed that as a Sutherland Shire councillor, he cannot control the flow of immigration into Australia.
I truly believed that Australia was over the Hansonesque “Asianisation” hysteria which was first sprouted 150+ years ago.
Betfair is interesting for President - McCain is $2.92. He was $2.66 straight after the Palin announcement and $2.74 the following day. He was $3.00 a couple of weeks ago. Looks like the punters (whatever they know) are seeing Palin as fairly irrelevant one way or the other.
Cynical thought for the day - if they want to withdraw Palin, what’s the betting that she (or better still, one of her family) will suddenly develop a completely unforeseeable health problem? One that requires lots of her time and attention.
Whatever happens, they won’t do an Eagleton!
It’s looking as though the Liberal senators have painted themselves into a corner and are just going to be a sidelined, irrelevant circus. The playmakers are turning out to be the Greens and minor parties. Maybe the Liberal’s decision to block the budget surplus was not smart politics.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/03/2353785.htm?section=justin
Fagin, ‘love’ this quote from Hodges:
“To ensure that the Sutherland Shire remains a safe, peaceful and harmonious community of Australian heritage, it is important to prevent overdevelopment,”
The only true ‘Australian heritage’ is that of the first Aussies, the rest is a hodgepodge of influences from recent arrivals, so I assume if, in the hopefully, extremely unlikely event he’s elected, Hodges won’t support the erection of anything more substantial than a wurlie. That should keep those ‘foreign devils’ outta the Shire! Sigh!!
There really should be a law that prevents people of his ilk, including a former PM with what I believe were similar convictions, from standing for any elected office, even secretary of the local tiddlywinks club.
I wonder how long it will take the polls to reflect the newfound ineffectiveness of the Liberal senators in finding a constructive role for themselves in the senate?
Steve - maybe the danger for the Libs isn’t any polling hit from being seen as irrelevant in the Senate, but from the polling hits that will flow from the consequences of that irrelevancy - such as giving the Libs far more time on their hands for internecine warfare over the leadership and factional jostling.
222
sondeo
‘The Anchorage Daily Hardon’
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
MayoFeral Says:
I’m glad that someone else has made a statement such as this as I am having a running battle with a christian nutter on another forum on this very topic.
As for the Shire……the ghosts of Howard live on……I hope they pack up and go one day soon.
Not sure if this is right thread for this, apologies WB if its not
No charges will be recommended against Belinda Neal or John Della Bosca over the Iguanagate scandal by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.
But the careers of the political power couple still hang on the decision of the State DPP.
In a statement, NSW police said: “The Commonwealth DPP has determined there is no reasonable prospect of a successful prosecution for a Commonwealth offence and has recommended that no prosecution for a Commonwealth offence should be instituted.
“As a result of this advice, police will not proceed with any charges in relation to Commonwealth legislation.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/iguanagate-no-charges/2008/09/03/1220121282844.html
“I wonder how long it will take the polls to reflect the newfound ineffectiveness of the Liberal senators in finding a constructive role for themselves in the senate?”
The libs went white when Faulkner pointed this out to them in June.
Maybe why their press releases, like Turnballs, are becoming a touch unhinged, as they come to grips with irrelevancy.
Bush to apply the kiss of death to McCain.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24286514-601,00.html
Radio in my area is a bit pathetic so we resort to Radio National in the morning. Hubby and I dragged out of bed so late today that we were still breakfasting when the Religion Report started. It turned out to be a it of an eye opener, to say the least.
Can I suggest that someone tries to catch it on its site and give me an opinion please.
The conversation was with the author of new book about ‘The Family’ which is based in the US and is the Protestant equivalent of Opus Dei. Their influence is staggering with bankers, industry and politicians.
Author was asked if any Australian politicians were connected or had had any involvement with The Family. He replied - ‘yes, Bruce Baird, Ross Cameron and ….. Peter Costello’. Suddenly the chat was interrupted by some irrelevant, noisy broadcast which seemed to make no sense at that point in the conversation.
We both thought there was cross interference but, after a few sentences, Stephen Crittenden came back on and continued his conversation.
Was the discussion interrupted for a specific reason?
Can someone else pick it up and give an opinion please.
On the plane trip Palin took, its time to tip the bucket on doctors in general.
Despite suggestions to the contrary, I do not think doctors are special in any way. They are exactly the same as everyone else except they had to sit more exams for longer than most, but not all. Because of the extra study, they/we tend to be a bit dull and know very little about the world. When the real world and the medical world interact, there is a well described problem called the VIP Syndrome and Palin’s pregnancy is a good example of it.
In VIP Syndrome, VIP patients (especially politicians) often get WORSE outcomes than the average patient with more serious complications. The reasons are that the doctors panic and try to cut corners and do things they would never do with a non-VIP patient. I have seen it countless times and it’s well described in the literature. Many VIPs have died because of it. BTW John McCains mutilating scar on his left face is another example. That surgery was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and there is NO evidence for having performed it. If it wasn’t McCain, he wouldn’t have had it.
In Palin’s scenario, there was;
1. Premature rupture of membranes at 36 weeks with contractions
2. Fifth pregancy (they come out quicker each time on average)
3. Down Syndrome
4. 8 hour flight
5. Planes are depressurised at high altitude which “sucks” the baby out
6. Illegal travel without informing the airline
Any sensible doctor would say she should have stayed in Texas. I’m betting that if a non-VIP patient rang her doctor with that story, he would have said stay in Texas. But the doctor stuffed up and made an unnecessarily risky and stupid decision because his patient was a VIP.
Sue H
The book is “The Family, by Jeff Sharlet” scary stuff.
It looks like Palin may have a Wright-like Pastor Problem.
Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war “contending for your faith;” and said that Jesus “operated from that position of war mode.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
When Swann sarted to refered to the current Lib leadership as options A (Nelson), B (Costello) and C (Turnbull) in the HOR yesterday they all went berko and Swanny need a number of attempts to get his lines out. Maybe a sore point at the moment me thinks.
Not only are the realising their irrelevance they might be begining to see that to keep up with the government they will actually have to work hard like Rudd and Co did, having no civil servants to feed them. This working hard without the at-hand resources might all seem too hard, too demeaning or too much effort for some of them.
Turnbull seems to not be getting any better at being a politician either and consistently talking gibberish.
Thanks Ruawake - but why would the discussion have been interrupted so abruptly after Peter Costello’s name?
Will buy the book for our son who likes to read the ’scary stuff’ re various religions.
Obama hits 50% mark in Gallup poll
Barack Obama met the 50 percent threshold for the first time Tuesday in the Gallup daily tracking poll, a symbolic hurdle that until now had eluded the Democratic nominee.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13094.html
Thomas,
From today’s EV.
“Polling has been a bit slow due to the holiday weekend. It should pick up this week.
A new CBS national poll taken entirely after the Democratic convention puts Barack Obama ahead of John McCain 48% to 40%. The Gallup tracking poll makes it Obama 50%, McCain 43%. Rasmussen puts it at 47% to 44%. It appears that Obama got a small bounce from his convention. It won’t last. Now it is McCain’s turn.
For completeness sake, Zogby also released an Internet poll showing Obama 44%, McCain 43%, Barr 5%, and Nader 2%. Internet polls do not use random sampling so they should be taken with a barrel of salt. There is no way in the world Barr will get 5% nationally. Internet users are much more libertarian than the population as a whole”.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep02.html
Palin’s appearance makes it all interesting again.
Now only if they could ge Cossie to pull on a dress.
More like a salt mine worth… I don’t know why you are even bringing up such a ridiculous poll.
Sondeo @222
love the Leak cartoon. what about Brenda with a slingshot in his back pocket, heavy weaponry, he can take it next time he rides shotgun with a truckie. lol
Dario,
It is EV’s quote!!
I don’t want to be accused of “cherry picking”.
Applaud your completeness GG but I doubt anybody would have accused you for that.
Diogenes, Pastor Kalnins should sit on a cucumber positioned upright.
Cherry picking by excluding an internet poll? Never…
Yesterday you said it was th Lady’s fault despite being already a mother of 4 , you may now find th internet sites these days ar full of professional dirt merchants for both Partys peddling “facts” Today you (correctly) lay blame where it belongs th family Doctor , and thats who any mother relies on , of any politcal colour
Then for “balance” we get th fair & balanced Huff woman journo , mentioning a typical stupid ‘right’ evangelical priest for a VP vs a 20 year extremist whaco of whacos th Rev but NOT for a VP but for actualy th POTUS , no comparison , let alone all th subsequent 8 marks of backward stepping ‘clarifications” from version 1 to version 8 on TV tapes Th former man of cloth is a reel worry but th latter is an extremist nutter like Jerry Falwell Then there is th queston of publicly ordering a seat on th Gallactic of ‘informals’ seemingly since abandoned
But then we hav our own looneys our Pinapple party denied there 2 million Q’ld Liberal Partys asset bounty by a Trust Deed on one hand , a 75% “members” requiremnt on other yet to there horor those “members” may no longer be “Liberal member” but Pineapple ones , and just what overriding legal powers do National Liberal executive hav , now Q’ld Nats you would hav thought would hav decided how to grab th Q’ld Libs 2 million prize before th rape , like pre paying for a stripteez show and arriving all ” motivated” only to find th comedy show is playing
Is John Watkins in a very safe seat?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/watkins-set-to-quit/2008/09/03/1220121304006.html
#251
Ryde is normally a marginal seat but the terrible results for the Libs have blown the margin out to double figures. Maybe the demographic change that saw Howard booted out has had some effect too. It’s about 10% or something but probably the kind of seat the Liberals could/should win if they win government.
Not sure where you’ve been Ron, but Obama’s got plenty of attention over the views of his pastor. Why should Palin not get the same treatment?
Don’t know where this would go, but:
NSW Deputy Premier John Watkins is resigning from Parliament. With Rob Oakeshott likely to win Lyne on Saturday, there should be a double by-election in Ryde and Port Macquarie. Ryde is held with 10.1% margin, and was a very marginal seat before Watkins built up his margin. I would expect a strong Liberal candidate could win it.
“NEW South Wales Deputy Premier and Transport Minister John Watkins will retire from politics at the 2011 state election.”
No by-election in Ryde.
# 243 wrote
“Palin’s appearance makes it all interesting again.”
She looks and sounds like “Elaine” from Seinfeld to me. Those glasses, her face shape - and the voice sounds pretty close to me.
Pity Kramer is not running - he would get heaps of votes and lets face it would be very hard to be worse than bush.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24287355-5001021,00.html
Apparently he’s quitting Parliament immediately to take up a new position. The article mentions “a by-election on a date to be set”.
Watkins has allowed Iemma to reshuffle/renew the cabinet while protecting Labor from a by-election. Whether it has any positive effect or not is debateable.
Sky Noos reported that Watkins will quit at the 2011 election.
Although online Sky Noos does say “a by-election on a date to be set”. Strange.
Standard level reporting for Sky
The Australian is reporting that he will retire at the 2011 election?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24287493-12377,00.html
So I guess he will retire on Monday
No, 262 ruawake, this article also says - “A by-election will be held on a date to be set.” So who knows.
Daily tele article implies he’s found a new job in the private sector, so it seems unlikely he’d just hang around the backbench for the next two and a half years.
And if the state Liberals are to have any credibility whatsoever, they must win any by-election in Ryde.
“And if the state Liberals are to have any credibility whatsoever, they must win any by-election in Ryde.” Absolutely.
What is the difference between Skynews’ Agenda and ABC1’s Insiders?
In reply , some exposure of Lady is reasonable but not th same treatment as one is running for th top job and one as an assistant , also Obama had th whaciest of whaco’s Rev , Having that Rev as your priest for 20 years would be like Kevin Rudd having Exclusive Bretheren as his priest for 20 years , but with even more extreme ‘teachings’ than them
One has 6 letters, the other has 8
and as I said earlier Ron, Obama copped stick for his pastor, so why shouldn’t Palin?
Finns went:”What is the difference between Skynews’ Agenda and ABC1’s Insiders?”
One budget and usually two dills.
”What is the difference between Skynews’ Agenda and ABC1’s Insiders?”
With Agenda you get to miss - Bolt, Toad, Milne and Kelly.
Occasionally Agenda has Hawker on - the best political brain in Oz.
NSW reshuffle now on the cards, apparently there is plenty of deadwood to be pruned.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24287848-12377,00.html
Perhaps you may think i’m not agreeing with you th Lady should not get some treatment , I am , all I’m adding is overall it should be proportionate to there respective jobs they’re running for whereas McCain should get equal ‘treatment’
Also I mentioned th extreme relativities between th 2 priests extremism which is a point , although it does seem all US politcans for some reason seem imbeded with a zealous religous bent , and also a God bless America bent to finish every speech which I find annoying
Ryde , Deputy Premier Watkins seat he’s to vacate is in Maxine’s Federal electorate , hope she does not waste her capital there over Yemma
I find most posts on America to be annoying.
ruawake, what’s your take on the Liberal senators. Do you think they are just going to be sidelined or can they get back in the main game?
Ron,
The first rat departs the ship in NSW.
No that happened in bennelong.
You just forgot ?
Gold, dave.
ESJ,
If you can be bothered, check out 129 on Gilligans. The Beagle Boys can’t think up a new name. Now they can’t tell time. Six dropkicks in search of someone to punt them.
sondeo @ 231 -
I’m glad that someone else has made a statement such as this as I am having a running battle with a christian nutter
So much for us all supposedly being God’s children, eh?
steve
The Liberal Senators are irrelevant they just haven’t realised it yet. Labor is finessing Mr X and Feilding and they will give The Greens a reason to pass legislation.
Will the BoP 7 pass the Medicare Surcharge Bill, of course they will.
Sue H @ 235 -
Was the discussion interrupted for a specific reason?
God moves in mysterious ways, child!
.
Diogenes @ 236 -
<i.But the doctor stuffed up and made an unnecessarily risky and stupid decision because his patient was a VIP.
Has the doctor actually made a statement confirming what Palin claims, or is this just on her word? I’ve not found one, though I did find this in a comment to a (US) ABC article so take with a large dollop of sodium chloride:
re: MDMConnell @ #265
John Watkins is taking up a position as CEO of Alzheimers Australia.
My guess is the by-election will be held after the new railway opens later this year.
Two of the stations are in the Ryde electorate and the other station a few hundred metres outside the electorate.
Alex Mitchell from the Telegraph was on ABC radio this afternoon saying people don’t want the Railway, so the Libs will win the by-election (or something along those lines).
It will be interesting to see the outcome of the by-election as the main opponent of the Epping to Chatswood railway is now the Liberal Party Leader.
“Labor is finessing Mr X and Feilding and they will give The Greens a reason to pass legislation.”
Some of these issues ar beyond Mr X and Feilding’s comprehenson
That sounds like utter rubbish to me. I used to live in the area and work at Macquarie Centre, and a train line would have been awesome! The Terror probably just interviewed Liberal party members as usual.
Well they already got the Greens vote on the luxury tax by exempting fuel efficient vehicles, so I think the prospects are good
well Labor drafted legislation with that freebie in mind so as to sensibly trade it away , otherwise Greens would hav asked for something else again But those 2 cowboys ar out of there depth which makes negotiating difficult to know what they’ll ask for
True, I think X & FF will be more difficult to negotiate with. It won’t be a good look for them though if the Greens are willing to compromise and they aren’t.
Here’s the Economics Committee Report on the “Tax Laws Amendment (Medicare Levy Surcharge Thresholds) Bill 2008″.
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/economics_ctte/tlab_medicare/report/index.htm
Oh Dear, what a circus this Federal Opposition is. A Liberal senator forgot to turn up to vote and Fielding is lost in space as usual.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24289395-12377,00.html
Diogenes,
Is Gilligan’s Island still running ?I got some crazy email from crazy Catrina last week, I didnt read it - was worried it was a virus (she has made earlier threats in that direction) and deleted it.
and the organ grinder continues to show extreme relevance deprivation syndrome
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/03/2354786.htm?section=justin
sigh
Gusface, Howard is probably the reason Senator Boyce missed the vote.
“Senator Boyce said she was attending a function at the time and did NOT hear the bells ring.”
Thats pretty hard to achieve , and why didn’t Liberal whip do his job As for Fielding my post unfortunarely was prophetic , he and X a nightmare for sensible negotiations & thankfully after th next electon he will be gone
MayoFeral
I was only going by what Ron said. He doesn’t tend to provide links. I got the impression from Ron that he was basing his information on what “Yup Yup” reported that the doctor said. I haven’t seen anything from the doctor. I’ll look around for more as the story unfolds.
My feeling is that Palin’s doctor is going to be getting a nasty letter very soon and the words “malpractice” and “negligence” are going to be on it.
ESJ
Stop being naughty. What do you think of the chances Palin will be Eagletoned? If Obama was Nixon, she’d wouldn’t make it to the convention on Sunday IMO.
MF
I found a reference;
So the doctor is denying being asked for an OK to fly but the Palins are saying they checked with the doc. It’s hard to imagine Palin didn’t mention to the doc that she was in Texas. Looks like to doctors lying to me. There are plenty of obstetricians happy to go on record to say that Palin should have gone straight to hospital.
Diogenes,
Let’s see how the Palin speech goes tonight before we rush to judgement. I think it will be clear by 1 October (after the first debate) as to who will be President. If the hopemaster isnt in front by 5 or more on that date John Sidney McCain III will be the 44th President of the United States of America.
Regarding the US contest, I can see now why Obama was being so circumspect about Palin: the last thing he would want would be for her to withdraw! She seems to me to be a diasaster. Her inconsistencies are funny to Democrats, but must trouble the very fundys she was presumably brought in to appeal to. Plus her lack of judgement is a serious issue - McCain is not young and there is a real chance she could wind up being president if he won. That prospect will be ridiculed in the campaign. I can’t imagine her debating Biden. If she stays the candidate, unless there is some very strange surprise tactic waiting in the wings, I think McCain has no chance. Thats great news for those of us sick of Bush, but it would surprise me if the Republicans would give up this easily.
ESJ
Any idiot can read a speech written by someone else. She used to be a newsreader so I’m sure she can read out what Bush’s friends have knocked up for her.
I saw that the TrooperGate investigation is due to report on 31st October. I bet the Repugs try every trick in the book to delay it.
Socrates,
Obama supporters are still Obama supporters. So the fact they are humoured, ridiculing or frothing at the mouth re Palin is neither here nor there.
Palin’s job is to persuade the conservative voters in the swing States and get out the Christian Right on election day.
Not many of them will be blogging on left wing Obama cheersquad sites.
Regarding Palin, TrooperGate is the most serious skeleton, but by no means the only one in her closet. Apparently she has rejected funding support groups for teenage mothers. I guess she must have worried about the conflict of interest
ESJ
I agree with you on Watkins: there’s nothing like bad polls to remind you of your family obligations. I can’t say I blame Watkins though: it is a sinking ship and if he feels he gets no traction with the Phillips street bover boys then it can’t be much fun. Its going to get worse for Labor in NSW too. On todays economic data did you notice in the State breakdown that NSW economic growth was actually negative in the last quarter? With no asset sale money and little to invest, NSW will effectively be in recession by Christmas. Even if they don’t ascribe such labels on a state by state basis, that is the reality voters there will experience.
GG
Even comedians in the US MSM are making jokes about Palin, not just bloggers. She will cost them plenty.
They’ve always made jokes about politicians Socrates.
As for NSW - it certainly is implosion coming up. Which little green bottle will come down next? There at pension maximisation stage now - ie mps will be fighting to get a ministry because it maxes out there super not in the expectation of re-election.
Socrates
On Iraq policy specificaly , do you support Biden’s view or Palin’s (both of which I posted (at #211)
I’ve ommitted Obama’s and MCain’s because there 2 differing policys ar each different again from both Biden’s & th Lady’s
Interesting story here on odds of Palin being dropped and general US election betting.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080902/pl_bloomberg/azjwbcginwsg
GG
I read a few of the fundies comments on a website and they were quite interesting. They liked her views on abortion etc. They were worried that she should be staying home to look after her disabled baby and pregnant daughter though. One said “Her family need her more than America does.” They also made quite a few references to her parenting skills. It was all the kind of stuff that us lefties would never get away with saying, even if we were thinking it.
And even if she mobilises the right, she’s looking like a big turn-off to the independents.
I think you are right ESJ; its one thing to have a stiff upper lip when you are in government, but once you know its over it must be hard to keep discipline. Its not as though an excess of nobility of spirit has kept NSW Labor together over the years. Just as an example, it will be interesting to see if Belinda Neal even gets pre-selection back into her nice safe seat next time if Labot lose NSW. There would be a lot of people used to employment in political offices over a long time looking around in that circumstance, and she would be pretty vulnerable.
Ron
I have said before I was opposed to the idea of a war in Iraq from before it even started, and still am. Of course I don’t support Biden. I agree with Palin on that topic. Her views on energy are crazy though; Alaska isn’t even close to a solution for the US oil supply.
Socrates,
Neal’s seat is actually a marginal one that she holds by a thin margin.
She won’t hold it after the next election. Jim Lloyd (former Lib member) has already popped his head up I’m pretty sure. There’d be nothing like a Neal-style meltdown to get the former member thinking it might be worth the hassle of running again.
On the other hand, Labor could pre-select someone other than Neal, and give themselves a chance of holding the seat.
Diogenes,
I haven’t seen any credible poll re Palin as yet and reserve judgement.
However, I do believe the Democrats and the feral Obamists are demonising her excessively and that all she will have to do is continue breathing in order for her to be a hugely popular and credible candidate.
Diogenes @ 298 -
I can’t understand how any competent GP would be happy about okaying a patient 5,000KM away in Palin’s condition flying for 8+ hours based only on what the patient is saying. Surely, at a minimum she’d have suggested a quick check at the nearest ER, or by the airport medics.
Especially, given that it turns out this drama started a lot earlier than recent reports have been suggesting. Apparently, Palin first called the doctor about leaking amniotic fluid at 4am and didn’t arrive back in Anchorage until 10.40pm. That’s nearly 22 hours with the 3 hour time difference between Texas and Alaska factored in. More than enough time for a quick medical check you’d think!
http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html
BTW-probably not surprisingly, Alaska Airlines is one of the few that has no policy on pregnant passengers: http://airtravel.about.com/cs/safetysecurity/a/pregnantflyer_2.htm
However, unless Alaska has seceded from the Union without telling anyone, they are still subject to FAA regulations, so I suspect Palin’s doctor is not the only one about to get a “nasty letter.”
Socrates
“I have said before I was opposed to the idea of a war in Iraq from before it even started, and still am. Of course I don’t support Biden. I agree with Palin on that topic”
Ditto , as did Beasley
You will find every future Democrat or Repug Alaskan Governor will follow th Lady’s enegy line , its th nature of ‘State’ based politcs , as was here over th MRB
You ar going to be disappointed with Obama’s actual nuanced Iraq policy both with withdrawal and indeed his supplementary policy should Al quaeda ressurect itself in any meaningful way in Iraq , his Iraq policy regretably for me is not what people believe it is (for that one would be supporting either my no 1 preference Al Gore , or for example John Edwards) USA style politcal mirrors unfortunately
I’m sure Palin could answer that question for you… she’s been a secession supporter for a good while
Ron
Yes Edwards was my first preference (assuming Gore didn’t run) then Clinton, then Obama. However I have nothing against Obama, and feel that there is no hope that the US slide economically and in terms of moral and political authority will be stopped, unless the Republicans lose and Obama and the Democrats win. So while I’m not an Obama fan, I dearly hope McCain loses.
C’mon, McCain supporters (or should I say Obama haters) the selection of Palin is a shocker LOL.
How can McCain be trusted to make correct and informed decisions if he can’t even pick his own veep?
Surely Obama has to win from here. Surely the Americans will get it right this time?
GG @ 313,
“However, I do believe the Democrats and the feral Obamists are demonising her excessively and that all she will have to do is continue breathing in order for her to be a hugely popular and credible candidate.”
Whether or not that is actually true, you can see the Dems are very fearful of being portrayed in that light. Stories like “Palin must be trailer trash because she wears hoop earrings” are gold to the Republican theme of “don’t vote for the Democrats because they look down on you”, now playing in blue-collar, small town America.
Palin’s first speech, first press conference and the VP debate will be big tests, but if she survives them or does well, she’ll probably end up doing ok electorally. Nevertheless I don’t really see how choosing her can be a plus for McCain. Why her? There’s really no sensible answer to that question.
I’d be quite fearful if she became President.
Socrates
with regret in hindsite I invested considerable months into checking Obama ,less on Hillary , Edwards & McCain as it was more accessible and having too much soursed adverse information disallows my support for either candidate on principal , I’m now actauly an informal voter
Accordingly my concentration todate (& probably in future) therefore on Obama rather than equally with McCain is simply a reflection he’s more likely to win AND there’s quite more than sufficent posters here on thise ‘left’ site who criticise McCain’s weakness’s
If you ar intersted I hav th best expose I’ve seen on what US world policy should be inclusive of Geo Politcal plus intertwinning morals and standards within it as well as rule of law & UN Just need to find it ,it’ll take about 15 minutes to read , had it saved up in case someone said Obama and/or biden were FA experts ! , and they ar amateurs in comparison
Dyno,
You’re not a moose are you?
Over on LP, Mark Bahnisch sums up my views.
Another indictment of the so-called liberal blogosphere from The Pinocchio Theory:
There are two things that especially trouble me about the “liberal” blogosphere’s attacks on Palin. One is good old-fashoned misogyny. I just don’t believe that a white male candidate would ever be subject to the sort of treatment that Palin has gotten: the smirks, the knowing winks, the ridicule of her prowess as a hunter, the doubts as to whether she can be an effective public servant at the same time that she is a parent to children under 18 (and especially one with Down’s Syndrome), and so on. I am in no way opposed to the basic need for partisanship, for taking off the gloves and attacking the other party. But I wish I could see a bit more thought going into the premises of all these “liberal” attacks on Palin, the sorts of values that they are appealing to. We are not going to win if we base our attacks against the Republicans on the Republicans’ own odious prejudices and presuppositions.
Dario @ 316 -
I’m sure Palin could answer that question for you… she’s been a secession supporter for a good while
So I’ve heard. And Alaska is only a short hop from Russia, the champions of oppressed peoples wanting protection from powerful national overloads, too. Wouldn’t Putin just love to help Palin achieve her fondest wish. Talk about blow-back for Kosovo and threatened NATO expansion into Georgia and the Ukraine!
If I was a moose I’d be hoping she gets the White House - less time to shoot at me!
Ron
Thanks although I already have read a fair bit on those topics (and still have a fair bit more I haven’t finished reading!). Have you ever seen Australian ethicist Peter Singer’s book “President of Good and Evil” on Bush? Its excellent IMO. Points out the dangers in the moral absolutism that underpinns Bush’s personal philosophy and administration. Its a few years old now but no less true.
But GG,
The basic point is this person is totally unqualified to be President. The only obligation of any note whatsoever that the VP has, is to be ready to be President.
Palin isn’t, and won’t be by January next year.
No doubt we can all get a good laugh out of Singer criticising other people for “moral absolutism”.
Dyno@319. The Republicans have gone with Palin to mobilise the religious right to vote on election day. McCain is not popular with that group and they would sit on their hands on election day as voting is not mandatory in the US.
I think that if Miss Sarah was such a dud there wouldn’t be all this mass hysteria and panic and fevered searching for dirt to throw among the Oily One’s supporters. (wink)
She sure has got them stirred up and running around like headless chooks and her speech tomorrow is sure to break all prevoius TV ratings.
What’s that oily blokes name again? haven’t seen hide nor hair of him since Miss sarah came on the seen lol.
vera,
You make a good point - Obama seems far less interesting than he did this time last week!
That may not end up hurting him in the election, who knows?
GG
Thats just spin. The point is not fundamentalists’s beliefs or behaviour, but their moralising and hypocricy. Liberals hold the view (amoung others) that the State shouldn’t have the right to dictate people’s private beliefs and behaviour, unless it harms others. For exampe, I don’t demand that others switch their pesonal philosophy to small L liberal, even though I consider it a sound philosophy. The trouble is, that there is a depressingly familiar pattern whereby those who promote state intervention on moral issues, oftne fail to live up to the standards they demand of others. If they didn’t raise the morality issue in the first place it wouldn’t get discussed, but they do raise it and so are fair game IMO.
“Peter Singer’s book “President of Good and Evil” on Bush? ”
no haven’t will seek it out , expose i was refferring ALSO demolishs Bush policaly , morally , intellectualy and FA wise in a 15 minutes speech AND it includes Iraq Will post if it interested
Dyno,
Now Let me see.
Nixon was a crook.
Carter was a laughing stock.
Reagan slept all the time.
Bush 1 held a lot of positions but never did anything of note.
Clinton had a zipper problem.
Bush 2 is universally seen as dumb.
Now, what was that about Palin being unqualified to be President.
Oh, and Obama can talk a good a fight.
PfS @ 327,
I agree with that - that’s why they’ve done it. Also to try to get the money flowing in from the religious Right.
There’d have to have been better candidates, though …
GG @ 332,
They had all done a lot more than Palin has now, before they became President.
Dyno,
Palin is running for VP.
However, if that is the standard, please explain what Obama has done to be President.
GG
He struts the stage like a moooovie star reading speeches and being worshiped and bowed to by all his dopey opps i meant doting (truly i did) subjects.
GG,
You raised the list of ex-Presidents and their faults, I didn’t, so why now try to pretend they are irrelevant to this discussion (if they are irrelevant, you should have thought of that before bringing them into the picture).
I am not particularly an Obama supporter (though he is the most fascinating politician I’ve ever seen). Nevertheless it’s not my brief to “explain what Obama has done to be President”.
But Palin just seems to me to be an appalling candidate. Basically there is nothing she has ever said or done that makes me think she is up to being President (and being able to take over as President is the only function of significance for a VP).
As I said yesterday, I’m perfectly willing to grovel to you in due course, if it turns out that she is, after all, an inspired choice.
GG
“However, if that is the standard, please explain what Obama has done to be President”
May I ask you th same politcal queston slightly reworded , a pattern , that has disturbed me from day one about USA style politcs , and you hav been a witness for months including tonite
Thousands of Obama supporter’s posts of anti Edwards , anti Hillary , anti Bush , anti Cheney , anti Iraq , anti McCain , anti th Lady….and defensive posts of a minsecule Obama’s skeletons publicised
Now we know ANY democrat POTUS will be a “NON Bush”…no more gittmo , no more judicial interference , no more Katrina foul upsd , no more renditions , no more pre emptive Iraq style wars , no more of Bush style of governing…ie. NO more Bush but any Democrat will provide that ! but blogging always seems to stop in th last paragragh stage narative !!
BUT where ar th reasons stated specifacly FOR Obama as Obama and what ar th specific benchmarks he’s promisding by which he can be later judged
I guess there are different ways at looking at it. Obabma got his convention and speech in and all went well. Solid safe performance with a little bounce. So that is the last impression people were left with of the Obama team before the side show started. People might not like it but Biden and Obama make a solid safe looking team.
Next came the sensationalism of the Palin choice for VP quickly side tracked into the quickly found dirt on her and, what many Americans may see as an patent lack of credentials and experience. Her claim to fame really is to be a redneck, fundy Christian woman.
Simultaneously we also had a hurricane to also diminish the McCain’s convention and the word is out that McCain was forced into picking Palin.
So what contrast do voters have of the McCain team and the Obama team after the last week?
Obama being out of the limelight is probably a good thing - who was it that said don’t disturb your enemy whilst they are in the middle of making a big mistake?
I think Obama needed a little break from focus as well as people are getting too familiar with his style.
All Obama now needs to do is come out with Biden, show themselves as a solid sensible and dependable team to increase the contrast.
Personally I would be appalled if Palin ended up as VP as there is the chance she would be President and she seems to be so much worse than Bush - can just see her dancing to the stings of the fundy Christian right and their agenda.
Dyno,
My point was that Palin will do VP as a precursor to running for President. At which stage she will be amply qualified.
There were plenty of other candidates with religious right appeal that he could have chosen. Why her?
TP,
I don’t think any of the dirt - so far - on Palin is of all that much significance. The much-touted Troopergate seems to me like something that many people will admire her for - the ex-brother-in-law sounds a right bastard - and much of the rest is just flim-flam, quite frankly. And her religious views won’t hurt her in the places where it counts, they’ll help in fact.
It’s her complete lack of credentials that bridles with me. I think it will also put off many voters.
Dario,
Exactly. Why her?
Ron
Post a link if you like.
GG @ 340,
Ok, fair enough. We’ll see …
Can someone articulate what this “lack of credentials” means? As far as I know, all she has to do is be on the winning ticket and she is qualified, credentialled and experienced enough to be VP and POTUS if the opportunity were to arise.
Night all.
I’ll find it tomorrow in my files and post it & then leave to you if you wish to look at it , lots of people make hindsite views whereas he accurately predicted th future of where Bush would send up Is that book widely avaialble
end up
GG
In your flood of posts did you see #338
Also how ar you Vera , saw your straight shootin post there
gday Ron
i’m fine but a bit confused because now we got polls for Hillary versus Palin
what the? what happened to Oils and mcCain? have i missed an assassination and a heart attack?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election
Dyno & Dario (oh will now add Vera , vera see 3rd paragraph)
“Why her?”
As a neutral observer I believe there were politcal reasons firstly Rudi Huck & Romney were all negatives for th fundi ‘right’ base & probaly negative for Independents So he had to pick an “unknown” McCain is behind and had to take a big politcal risk picking an ‘unknown’ , but selecting an ‘unknown’ with more experience like Mr P would not hav narrowed his % gap
So he had to sacrifice having to hav an ‘unknown’ with Washington/ more State experience , wear inexperience criticism & that may somewhat diminish his ‘experience’ advantage over Obama, wear th inevitable skeleton sleeze about her that comes on Internet/Media , and gamble his selection would get through TV interviews & Debates for th benefits she brings thereby narrowing th gap/ winning , or losing bigger
So he’s picked a Lady who despite ‘left’ criticisms does bring some politcal benefits not to ‘left’ voters so convincing them or ‘left’ bloggers was irrelevant , but who brings benefits/votes to ‘right’ voters to get them out to vote & potentialy win some Independent votes …starting with , she brings that she is Pro Life (hell she proved that with having her 5th child knowing in advance th child had down syndrome , very powerful message ) , she brings she is a go getting successful female , she brings ’success’ female career with family and specifiacly comparable to th ’successful’ female Hillary potentialy winning some male 7 especialy female Hillary supporters and Independent male particulalry female voters who will like that , she brings sh’e mother 5 kids Husband World champion success man & defeats both male Dems & Repugs for Governor both of whom had been th governor previously , she bering from that subtext she has appeal of having reel ‘ticker’ plus family & combining th 2 , she brings no Iraq baggage at all & in fact is sending a son there in Septemmber americans love patriotism , she also brings she wants out of Iraq and out without worrying about oil & that will appeal , she brings she speaks very straight & well at her political level about bread & butter issues unlike McCain Obama or Biden making a big contrast against all 3 , could list more but th Lady brings no experience but alot to th political table
So compare th last 2 paragraphs and one see plus’s and min’s , and you guys were never going to vote for her , but yous ar not voter groups being chased , politicans take gambles
Little Johnny Would be proud of her
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
George Lakoff is always interesting on the symbolic realm of politics and here is his take on the appointment of Palin
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/02
Everybody seems to be talking of Senator Obama’s inexperience in US federal politics re his term length as a senator, I was just looking at the wikipedia entry for Abe Lincoln http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln and am I wrong in thinking he had only 2 years as a federal congressman before being elected arguably the best president ever? neglecting all the un-elected stuff he and no doubt obama did before, during, and after being elected ???? so what’s all the fuss about obama then?
I just saw on the morning news that the coalition failed to kill off the luxury car tax bill last night because Liberal Senator Boyce failed to show for the crucial vote ROTFL.
Fielding voted against it, citing concerns over farmers and people with large families. IMO that is a croc - there are lots of people movers not affected by teh luxury tax. Many 4wds are under the threshold too. Why should farmers automatically get a subsidy? On grounds of their industry being unviable? I think its time that Labor started attacking the automatic entitlement/subsidy mentality many attach to farmers. They need help on water, but there are many distortions in our system to “help” them which are simply rorts. And they do get abused.
Sorry Fielding claimed that farmers and tourism will be harmed by the luxury car tax. WTF? Tourism isn’t even a believable excuse.
Ron, GG, vera,
Maybe Palin is Ronald Reagan in a dress. I don’t think so but I am frequently wrong, so we’ll see.
Today’s speech will give us a lot more clues.
Palin is a better educated Pauline Hansen. What does a VP do all day? Please explain?
She can say things other politicians cannot or too afraid of saying. But people like to hear those things and react to them.
Dario @ 341 -
There were plenty of other candidates with religious right appeal that he could have chosen. Why her?
There is the possibility that faced with a party order to pick a someone that the fundies approved instead of his preferred choice, Lieberman, McCain chose the very worst candidate in the hope she’d crash and burn thus enabling him to ‘hastily’ rope in Lieberman as the last minute replacement.
Whichever way you look at it it says much about McCain’s character, or lack there of, IMO.
I hope McCain does drop Palin and picks up Lieberman. If he does win we for god sake should have somebody not a red neck child to step into the position. Palin is now become a national security risk.
The question for the second reading of the Tax Laws (Luxury Car Tax) Bill 2008 and 3 related bills was put again
Commenced 9:31 AM
Negatived at second reading
Senate divided: Ayes 33; Noes 34
I love the smell of responsible economic management in the morning.
For the record the result of the division was actually 34-34.
Tellers miscounted, no aye vote was absent.
Now the National Enquirer has got Palin in their sights! They reckon she had an affair with her business partner but she has of course denied it. They got it bang on (pardon the pun) with John Edwards so this should be fun!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/palin-camp-hits-back-at-national-enquirer-story/2008/09/04/1220121383123.html
Dyno,
I think you are thinking of another noted Republican.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18108978/
Hahahaha, now some conservative MSNBC commentators have been caught with an open mike slagging Palin off… they reckon it’s all over… funny stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg
James J, the interesting one that will hurt the Liberals and Fielding is if the “Tax Laws Amendment (Medicare Levy Surcharge Thresholds) Bill 2008? is voted down.
It was interesting that when it was first introduced the Liberals claimed probably no one would ever have to pay the tax because very few would be affected by the threshold. It remained unchanged for the remainder of the Liberal rule. Now thousands of people are ripped off each year due to the unchanged threshold.
Nobody likes to pay their tax all year and then get slugged with a bill for extra tax just on a Liberal Party whim as I am sure the Liberals and Fielding are about to discover.
There is no doubt that Swannie gets better as the days go by.
Tuesday night on Red Kerry Allbull made a statement about being governed by leaders who were not responsible but forgot to mention that he was referring to ALP.
So yesterday in Question time Allbull duly asked him a question regarding taxes and Swannie delivered the following as part of his answer. In Hansard.
Pure Gold.
Last night, the member for Wentworth was on The 7.30 Report,
and this is what he said:
I am not exaggerating. Look, all I’m saying is this: had
we been governed by leaders who were responsible, and who
had the economic interests of this country at heart, we would
have had lower interest rates …
Isn’t that an awful thing to say about Mr Howard and
the member for Higgins—particularly on the night that
Mr Howard is in the House! That is a terrible thing to
say about them because it is so true.
The “Tax Laws Amendment (Medicare Levy Surcharge Thresholds) Bill 2008″ is being debated in the senate now. A bit of history in the making.
I notice that “Levi Jonhston” has been upgraded to be Bristol Palin’s fiancee. How quick and how soon. Was he given an offer he couldn’t refuse?
I have this theory that there is a right wing conspiracy to Americanise us as much as they can. They have influenced what we eat, they spread this bizarre christian rubbish and they support a distructive form of Capitalism and elitism.
When Media in Australia start spending a huge amount of time on the USA presidential election (What difference does it make to us and what influence can we have on the teenage pregnancy,) it does not help my paranoia. Secondly it highlights that the Media are often just short of copy. They often mimic teenagers who if they have nothng to say say something anyway.
Off on tangent, what is the age of consent in Alaska, and if its 18 is McCain associating with a sex offender, or doesn’t it count if you marry your victim?
No, it’s 16 in Alaska
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/04/2355271.htm?section=justin
I guess that makes up for the revenue lost by the defeat of the luxury car tax.
Budget intact.
How serendipitous!
Dario
I keep saying, Palin is the gift that keeps on giving.
And its showing up in the polls and betting markets.
Diogenes,
Is the poll measuring the Obama bounce from the DNC convention, or is it recent enough to attribute to the bizarre VP choice?
That poll would have had the VP choice I believe
Minnesota would have been worse than expected for the Repugs as they’re probably a bit miffed Pawlenty was overlooked for Yup Yup.
Dio, Dario,
I agree with you that she is a poor choice.
However the all-out attack on Obama that she apparently launched at the Convention today is not a bad tactical manoeuvre: it gives the Dems a real dilemma about how to respond.
Dyno, I don’t think it was that surprising… it was about the only option for the Republicans. From here on in she does as she is told, and gives the speeches the RNC give her. As for the how the Democrats respond, I think they have been given a gift and come the debates it will just get worse for the Republicans no matter what the Democrats do.
“The National Enquirer’s coverage of a vicious war within Sarah Palin’s extended family includes several newsworthy revelations, including the resulting incredible charge of an affair plus details of family strife when the Governor’s daughter revealed her pregnancy. Following our John Edwards’ exclusives, our political reporting has obviously proven to be more detail-oriented than the McCain campaign’s vetting process. Despite the McCain camp’s attempts to control press coverage they find unfavorable, The Enquirer will continue to pursue news on both sides of the political spectrum.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/mccain-camp-battles-natio_n_123696.html
Something funny - the heavy bovver boys out and about?
This link is dead:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/sarah_palin_at_war_with_her_daughter_over_pregnancy_wedding/celebrity/65370
AND
‘Page under construction’
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/
Republican hackers at work?
A week ago you’d have thought McCain would have spent the week having to deal with people talking about Bush and Obama.
Instead it’s been the Gustav and Sarah show. Not ideal, but overall, probably a bit of a lucky break for McCain the way this week has panned out, compared to what it could have been.
Palin has a few tests to get though yet, though.
Minnesota and none of the rust-belt Kerry states seem to be in play (and with the pro-life Palin the very independent New Hampshire can be kissed goodbye). If the Dems continue to have solid leads in Iowa, New Mexico and Colorado as they have in almost all the polls it doesn’t even matter what happens in all the toss-up contests (Virginia, Ohio, Florida, Indiana, Nevada, Montana, North Carolina) which McCain has to do a 100% sweep to even have a sniff. I think this explains the crazy-brave pick of Palin, its sort of like Latham in 2004 where there was the necessity to take risks when you are trailing in tracking polling to hope it somehow changes the game (although in 2004 it made Latham appear more instable and cost him a lot of votes)
Lieberman would have been a much better choice, would have increased the focus on foreign-relations and McCain’s ability to transcend the partisan divide, but obviously the Repubs selected purity over pragmatism.
The Republican base would have deserted a McCain/Lieberman ticket in droves, and they would have been slaughtered
Very true I agree, I think the Reps are caught between the devil and the deep-blue sea in their need to maintain the coalitions that were behind their previous victories - its the ironic inversion of all the culture wars B/S that they believe the B/S so fervently that even when they hold their noses and pick a strong candidate with cross-over appeal like McCain they have to find a way to damage this appeal by bringing back the “red-meat stuff” that only appeals to the faithful
Mesmeralda sent to naughty corner for one hour by the Speaker for being persistently… well… naughty.
This is exactly what Obama needs to do in response to Palin’s speech.
Say what you will, stick ya heads in the sand in denial, troll the net and oilbama blogs for shit to throw and make a noise to distract from it but Miss Sarah’s speech was brilliant.
A few home truths on Obama hit where it hurt and were delivered with a smile, I laughed when she made the comment about the Greek styrofoam pillars being taken back to the movie lot, how true, she also told MSM to get stuffed and that she wasn’t out looking for their approval. Msm have crucified her for days and she comes out fighting and sits them back on their arse Game on!
someone said “Msm have got a dog in their trunk and it’s called Obama” LOL
If all the critism they can come up with is she had the help of a speechwriter they need help themselves. Notice this was the first comment by MSM as well and yet there has been no mention of everyone else using speechwriters Oilness included.
Carmel Tebbutt is the new NSW deputy Premier
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/tebbutt-is-iemmas-deputy/2008/09/04/1220121409677.html
Did you get that from the Rebups? lol
She’s a woeful candidate and will be lucky to make it through the campaign without getting dumped
391 James J - I think she will lead them to the next election along with a new broom being put through cabinet. It may not save them but I don’t think Labor will sit around and go to the slaughter without major surgery taking place in the meantime. If it’s not working as is, there’s nothing to lose with such change IMHO.
Palin represents a genuine security risk to the USA and world as there is a real possibility that she could become POTUS. Her lack of exposure and experience in the real world plus her extreme religious politics must be a concern.
Would she send in USA planes to bomb Russian tanks in Georgia? She might if her fundy right wingers living in fantasy land thinks it would be good for God.
Unfortunately there is no planet we can escape to if she actually does end up there.
I haven’t seen all of Palin’s speech but I’m sure she presented it well and had all of the necessary phrases and issues that turn republicans on. As one commentator noted on CNN when was the last time a VP or Presidential candidate gave a poor speech to the adoring masses?
The only question is will she appeal to the independents and reluctant voters. I doubt it personally.
God’s sake how long is Malcolm Turnip gonna keep going on with Swannie talking up inflation BS?
I’m no fan of Belinda Neal, but this latest accusation by Nelson & Bishop is a good laugh
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24292874-421,00.html
Ms Neal then walked “very closely behind Dr Nelson and Ms Bishop into the terminal, in ‘an obviously aggressive manner’ ”. Puhleese. What next?
I too am no fan of Belinda Neal but it’s obvious if you can’t get her one way you try the next best thing. She really needs to keep her distance and shut up though.
Dario
no I watched her speech, I never would have if the media hadn’t had the spotlight on her all week. So curiousity got the better of me as I’m sure it did for a lot more people, If they had made Huck, Juliana etc the VP nomination I’d have had no interest at all and wouldn’t have turned the TV on.. But it’s human nature to want to see what all the fuss is about. so I had a gawk.
I can’t cop Obama, to me he’s weak and bigheaded and being protected fiercely by the press. Anyone who dare critise their boy gets torn to shreds, and I’m sick of putting up with the same sorta crap here in Oz concering MSM where the Fibs are their darlings.
Maybe there’s a bit of sympathy too for the underdog as well and a hell of a lot of disillusion as a Hillary supporter but I reckon Miss Sarah did a good job today.
Sorry but i tell it like I see it. and wouldn’t it be boring if we all agreed on everything lol
I admire your ‘loyalty’ vera, but with all due respect she is a dud candidate and the Repubs know it, hence trotting out all the attacks in the convention. Repub insiders have been caught on open mikes slagging her off as a bad choice and saying that the race is effectively over. They are in a hole and it will take a massive shift to get them out of it.
As for the media protecting Obama, you obviously haven’t been paying attention for the last year (or are just ignoring it). He’s copped plenty, as has his wife. Now it’s Palin’s turn.
Hey Dario I’m not loyal to any Yank! Don’t insult me, please!
I don’t reckon it’ll matter much to oz who gets in, Kev’s already on good terms with both cantidates and will be able to work with either.
I’ve got no doubt your hero will be elected but don’t get too upset with those of us who don’t fall over ourselves praising him lol
vera
Palin was a newsreader in her speech. If you want a newsreader as POTUS, who has no idea about the economy or national security, good luck.
Obama writes most of his own speeches. And he certainly writes his important speeches, like the one he gave to the convention and the “race” speech.
As Dario said, even the Repugs as saying it’s over because of the ridiculous choice of Yup Yup. Peggy Noonan’s pathetic attempts at explaining her bucketing of McCain and Palin are driving a stake through the Repugs heart. But it’s all over youtube. 700,000 people have watched it today.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122044753790594947.html?mod=todays_columnists
Someone counted the number of blacks at the Repub Convention - 36.
Also been hearing that things turned real ugly when Rudy Giuliani whipped up the delegates with a torrent of abuse about Obama.
There are going to be a lot of sleepless nights if these clowns get another 3 years, especially with Putin in no mood to take any shit.
As I’ve said before: time to start pricing backyard nuke shelters
vera,
I’m not a fan of Ms Palin (for VP that is - I’ve no real objection to her personally) but I have to admit the early write-ups of the speech are very positive. E.g. the NY Times which is normally very pro-Democrat.
I’m not changing my original prognosis that she’s a dud candidate, but I am feeling slightly more nervous about it …
On who Rudd can best work with, a key point is that based on past history (and current rhetoric) Obama is likely to be more protectionist than McCain. This will be a problem for Oz. But overall I agree with you, no big deal either way for Oz.
#397 - Dario, apparently the diminutive Brenda Nelson has to be “rescued” from the Amazonian Belinda Neal by the newly crowned Julie “i am Sarah Palin” Bishop.
Bill Leak was spot on:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6230417,00.jpg
Well said Vera
I wonder if a successful woman has made many insecure men more insecure , I wonder why th birth of a down syndrome child instead of being beloved should be turned into sleeze , I wonder why a 17 yearold teenagers pregnancy should be publicly ridiculed when family ar supposed to be off limits , I wonder why unproven often sordid alegations against th Lady ar so freely publicised with glee
Most of all , I wonder why those that profess ”standards” so freely trash them against a political opponent But then there is always that well worn excuse of “relevance” and “context”….coincidently an excuse also used by th “right”
For a Lady who is alegedly so imperfect and one politcally not to fear , she has generated a lot of comment , so much so th Lady may just be th most known Lady on earth at moment
Oiliness’s response typical oiliness , twist th truth as if oiliness writes all his own speechs , or did his good mate th convicted Rezko write his speech About time some reel positive policys were put up so they can be later benched marked (because ANY Democrat was going to be a NON Bush)
lol, I didn’t mean it that way… I meant loyalty to your original position with someone you were originally a fan of despite the evidence subsequently piling up against her
Finnigans,
Be all that as it may (yes, it was a funny cartoon), if I was Neal I’d still be planning for life post-politics (straight after the next election). She is (to use the phrase of the day) a “gift that keeps on giving”, and, in view of how little else the Libs have to work with at the moment, it would be naive to think they’re going to ease up on her one iota.
We haven’t even had the TV exclusives from the restaurant staff yet, but they’ll be on the way …
She holds the seat by something like 200 votes. If the ALP doesn’t get her, the voters will!
Ron, I have absolutely no idea why you are wondering why, when in reality nothing is off limits in a US presidential campaign. I mean Obama still gets accused of being a muslim ffs!
Vera, that petulant little twerp better wins in November, otherwise he will be lynched by the old oak tree for losing an unloseable election and disturbing the Dems’ mandate from heaven to govern.
I blame him completely for the situation as is now. He should have waited, and then he should have picked Hillary as the veep. He didn’t do both, so it is on his head to win.
If the Dems is not careful, Palin could turn out to be Margaret Thatcher Mark II.
Ron,
I can be fair dinkum and admit that Palin did much better than expected today.
You should be able to be fair dinkum, too, and admit that Obama is a rare talent.
Ron, believe what you want, although gievn the amount of hate you seem to have for Obama I doubt anything would sway you
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837368,00.html
Ron
I don’t fear Palin politically. I fear having her as POTUS. Even the Repugs have admitted she is a dud when then actually tell the truth. Noonan and Murphy are hard core neocons.
Dio,
Yes, I agree with you, I doubt very much if she is up to the job of POTUS. Which in turn means she’s not up to the job of VPOTUS.
However I admit my equilibirum on this topic has been a little disturbed by the way her speech has been reported today. Maybe an Alaskan Amazon who doesn’t take sh.t is just what small-town America wants in a VP. But I still doubt it.
Dyno
The thing that is really relevant is not so much that Palin is a featherweight regressive redneck hick, it’s that McCain would pick someone so inept for purely cynical reasons. It shows a terrible lack of judgement and complete contempt for his own argument about Obama not having enough experience. That was his main advantage over Obama with the independents and he’s blown them off.
It all comes down to expectations really. Palin has been hammered in the media since being nominated for various reasons and not much expected of her, so even an average performance would have been seen by many as a positive against a sea of negatives.
Dio,
I basically agree with you about the choice of Palin.
Having said that, just to play devil’s advocate, have you checked out guardian.co.uk today?
When a Republican gets the Guardian team saying words to the effect of “The speech might have been full of rubbish … but it was brilliant” you know it’s more than just your average schmaltzy American effort.
Finnigans
On 10 news Julie Bishop was acting the scared little woman in need of protection, said she felt menanced and had to take a step backwards!
A Palin she aint.
Neal won’t get preselected again anyway… I’d say that decision’s already been made internally
Family feuds are the nastiest.
“In the brief cover story, the Enquirer also says this:
The ugly family feud stems from a three-year battle between the 44-year-old governor and her former brother-in-law, state trooper Mike Wooten.
“Sarah has many enemies in her hometown – but a lot of them are in her own extended family,” a source close to the Palin family told The Enquirer.
Family members loyal to Wooten are now waging a campaign to drag Palin’s reputation through the mud.”
hi Ron
not being an Oilbama fan I’m just sitting back now enjoying the circus. no emotional feelings one way or t’other. Democrats are dead certs (well that’s what msm says 5 to 10 point lead) and allthough the contest might be well and truly over the soap opera continues lol.
I don’t get stressed out (like i did when Kev was up against the Rodent) so I’m feeling relaxed and comfortable (who said that?) and since Sarah arrived on the sceen it’s getting more entertaining everyday.
I don’t know if I’m watching a family drama an adventure epic or a wild western but I got my popcorn and am standing by for the next episode.
Finally, that petulant little twerp acknowledges that he needs Hillary more than ever to win in Nov.
http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/nation/ny-usclin045828629sep04,0,4322864.story
Clinton will be lining up for a cushy gig if Obama gets in with her help. She’s only 60 isn’t she? Possible candidate still in 2016 perhaps?
A housewife in Wasilla ‘close’ to the Palin family since 1992 and intimately knowledgeable of her life/activities has written a missive on Palin. It is relatively detailed and knowledgeable of historic events, describes personal events. Mostly mundane but reveals some quite unpleasant character traits of Palin. Some good background character material on her.
The way that it is written would indicate it is quite genuine and the woman pretty well identifies herself. She puts it under the comments section.
http://theland.farmonline.com.au/news/world/world/general/palin-accused-of-steamy-extramarital-affair/1262904.aspx
I wonder who Bludgers would vote for president if they were voting in November? I just don’t want to see the Repblicans get in this time. They don’t desrve it after putting up Bush. The further we can get away from those policies the better.
Ron Paul!
Hi Vera
yes my feelings also , notice th petulance & feelings of SOME replies as if questioning th messiah , as if religous zealots not liking diverse opinions
Those ‘mates ‘of oiliness Rezko & Rev Wright ar not a mirage they ar a public fact Amazing is not it that objective ‘people’ would not absolutely condemn him for both
When you get time you may like to check on another guy called William Ayres (there’s a number with this name but this particular one was part of th ‘weathermen’) after that got other ‘mates’ as well
Hello Dyno
your ‘non experience orientated’ comments on th lady hav been non critical & as I understand you you think they’re nothing your concern seems to be experience only , so happy to measure that against a one term Senator who at best should be VP no higher
In answer to your last question , Oiliness I’ve said previously is best Orator I’ve seen far better actor than Ronald Reagan Obama could carry off th part in West Wing well i think However no use people speaking pretty words & not believing what you say nor being eloquent but not suporting Kyoto or universal healthcare whereas John Edwards supported both (but does not talk as nice)
Give ma a bland Edwards anyday , he believes in what he says , better still an Al Gore
Slight problem with him cheating on his cancer stricken wife, but hey I guess McCain cheated as well…
Ron,
You have represented me pretty accurately.
Palin has views that seem odd to most Australians (guns, abortion, etc) but within the context of the Republican Party they are nothing out of the ordinary. Some of her views on religion would be acceptable within the Dem Party as well. America is different to here.
So far I don’t think the Palin scandals have legs, though this area is obviously a watching brief. But so far I think they’ve all been in the realm of “so what” (the pregnant daughter and the waters-breaking flight), contested facts (Troopergate) or standard politician behaviour (the apparent back-flip on the Bridge to Nowhere, and ruthless elimination of opponents). If a candidate has charisma none of those sort of things will really hurt them too much.
But yes, I think her cv is woefully inadequate for the job.
Obama has no executive experience, true. But he’s been running for President non-stop for four years, and in a sense, for most of his adult life. Plenty of testing there.
Neal accused of being nasty to Nelson!!
Isn’t that Australia’s favourite passtime. MSM out of psynch with the community again?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/neal-accused-of-being-nasty-to-nelson/2008/09/04/1220121407475.html
GG,
Have you heard we have yet another Labor power couple in NSW?
Our Deputy Premier who is partners with the Federal Transport Minister? They are out there fighting for all of us on half a million a year!!
We have other power couples too - the workers can sleep easy knowing they are looking after them.
On Palin - she’s a hit big time - how’s that Intrade contract Diogenes - deflated??
The Intrade Contract halved after the speech Diogenes - I better not post about it anymore I’ll get another loony email from crazy Catrina.
A poll on women’s response to the Palin pick.
But 52 percent of voters polled in a survey for the women’s activist group Emily’s List said they would vote for the Democrat ticket of Barack Obama and his VP choice Joseph Biden, against 41 for the Republicans.
The poll, carried out by random dialing of 800 women on Sunday and Monday, shows that 50 percent of women voters felt McCain picked Palin out of political expediency and not because he believes she has the experience to do the job.
Only 29 percent said he had picked her to run in the November 4 elections because he believed she was qualified to be vice president.
And when asked which ticket had the most experience to run the country, 52 percent opted for the Democrats compared to 37 percent for the Republicans.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080903/pl_afp/usvotewomen;_ylt=Ao_CWJ8LGFDeL8E6CO23XABsnwcF
Yes GG. I’m sure that Brendon had nothing but good intentions
————————————————————————
<blockquoteWhen the flight landed, Dr Nelson attempted to help Ms Neal with her bags, prompting the furious Labor MP to demand to know when he was going to apologise for the remarks.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24292542-601,00.html
ESJ
I heard she didn’t slobber too much during her speech. Evidently that pleasantly surprised a few pundits. I couldn’t listen to it myself. That shrill screeching gave me a headache. Hillary’s was much better.
Poblano makes a good point about her speech. It was the usual divisive crap Bushies come up with. No-one is going to change their opinion on Obama, who has record high favourable ratings (equal with Bill at 63%), based on some-one they don’t know and don’t trust. She won’t have persuaded anyone to move from Obama to McCain.
Is that baby real? Saw him in the wind at the airport. Saw him at the campaign launch. Saw him being passed around at the RNC like a rag doll.
But he was sleeping all of the times, no movement, perfectly still, no crying, he must be a pretty good sleeper for a baby.
ESJ
PaddyPower has Palin at 3/1 to get kicked off the ticket, in from 8/1 a couple of days ago. For mine, it all depends on whether she can stall the Troopergate investigation long enough (or get a change of jurisdiction) coz I think it’s going to recommend criminal charges.
ESJ, is that the Czarina, the Editor-in-Chief of the G Spot? Do share.
I was not impressed with Belinda Neil before Iguanas Waterfront Bar affair , and incident & subsequently handling of her didnn’t improve my opinion So hope she does not get re endorsed on principal not th fact its a marginal seat that now given Iguanas is more dificult Not comfortable with Belinda Neal representing people as a politcan
Yes I’d take a cheating Edwards over that phoney , just as th cheating JFK was better than Nixon in 1960 , rand th cheating Billy was better than Bush one but those Dems stood for something As does Edwards & Gore like suporting ratifying Kyoto & universal healthcare ar there core values , and oiliness no no on them , he’s got pretty words as his core values
Dyno
your first 90% of your post we ar in agreement , might add Obama is pro Gun as well even supporting consevative Supreme Court decision to disallow Washington City law that had banned hand guns etc AGAINST ‘left’ Judges decision
As to experience , in todays World of globisation & instability th role of POTUS is a bigger job than VP by far yet th Lady has at least had 2 years as an effective State Premier being a governor with executive responsibilities , Obama has had zero yet HE is running for th bigger job , so IF there is an experience argument against th Lady then I’d believe consistent that equally an experience argument lies against oiliness Secondly as World is far more complex & challenging these days all POTUS’s in last 30 years or so hav been a Governor or VP beforehand including Bush that doesn’t diminish th point it shows even then a dim wit gets through , but that stepping stone principa is used in Corporate structures as well
Thirdly ar you still somewhat ambivilent re result
Ronster
Isn’t it time to do what Hillary and almost all her supporters suggest and jump aboard the good ship Obama? You’ll feel a whole lot better about the result.