Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth

Essential Research: 59-41

The latest weekly Essential Research survey (providing a rolling average of results over the previous fortnight) shows Labor’s lead up to 59-41 after a long stretch on 58-42. Also included are leadership approval ratings which provide an interesting point of comparison with Newspoll: Kevin Rudd has 56 per cent approval and 33 per cent disapproval (compared with 59 per cent and 25 per cent in last week’s 56-44 Newspoll), while Brendan Nelson’s ratings are 24 per cent and 51 per cent (compared with 36 per cent and 39 per cent). Breakdowns are provided telling us how much of this approval and disapproval is “strong”, and there are also results on whether Nelson’s party has given him “the support he deserves”, and on the seasonal workers issue.

554 Comments

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  1. 101
    Ron
    Posted Monday, September 1, 2008 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    “supermarket leases that have clauses excluding any other competitor within 100 metres or for ten years or more”

    Reality & tricks and committment in houdini magic mirrors especialy section 50 Firstly leases ar written to comply with Act Secondly Landlords do not hav to provide competition within there propertys But Landlords can not prohibit so they ar not prohibiting competition by offering to lease more than 100 metres away Thirdly landlords in there building plans construct and then pre lease so space is not available Act is designed to prevent acts that diminish competition Then there is reality that all complex Shopping Centres ar already built , so can not pull them down & Samuels knows it

    Answer does not lie in th Act in respect of supermarkets as there ar virtually only 2 anyway , and competition reely wouldn’t be improved if both were in every complex as they both massage prices between themselves cleverly , but within th Act So problem is not th Act but reely in th monopoly distribution sector of those 2 chains , and whether they could ever be dismantled or whether Audi’s etc can be encouraged

  2. 102
    gusface
    Posted Monday, September 1, 2008 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    for those with a long memory-the fibs caught out trying to make mischief over a lame duck japanese pm and the worth of rudd visiting first.

    fibs- liars and malcontents the lot of em

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/01/2352549.htm?section=justin

    Japan PM Fukuda resigns

  3. 103
    gusface
    Posted Monday, September 1, 2008 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    “The Government has been frustrated since the opposition won majority control of the Upper House of Parliament in an election in July last year.

    Seventy-two-year-old Mr Fukuda stepped in to the job in October to replace Shinzo Abe, who also quit after less than a year in the job.”

  4. 104
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Thomas Paine

    What that link excludes re trooper and what MayoFeral’s earlier one on baby birth is all of info Media bias in selective reporting to BOTH Partys leaves th ‘australian’ for dead , terriblely hard to find reel objective & whole info

    MayoFeral link actualy shows she was one month early not two months , but link also ommitted she checked with her doctor first even before her speech & if anyone wants minorness of water details I’ll supply them

    Your link , regarding th Trooper (and not blaming you) but article omits the Trooper was “elegible” to be fired because he had been found guilty by Police of infractions with his former wife (sister of Palin) and using a Taser stun gun on his stepson Fox News , Rush Lumbragh etc on ‘right’ also use selective reporting

    What we do not hav in ‘oz’ is a “left ” equivalent to th “Australian” My faith in most US Media and internet is low , ‘NYT’ is reasonable

  5. 105
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    ar you suggesting that seeing Nelson insisted that it was important for Kevin07 to visit th Japanese PM Mr Fukuda (now since resigned) that Nelson should follow his own advice and still visit him …sort of a meeting of 2 irrelevants

  6. 106
    gusface
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    ron
    simply put rudd is still two steps of the fibs.
    for all their bleating about how important japan is, I think its best we let them sort themselves out before “popping in for a cuppa”.

  7. 107
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:46 am | Permalink

    well this example showed Rudd could read those cuppa tea leaves about Fukuda’s position did you see on ABC Nelsons unbelievable statement that he wants RBA to lower rates by 0.5% yet when questioned I think he said that he was PM he’d not direct th RBA , one rule in opposition and one rule in governent separated by one Q & A

  8. 108
    gusface
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:56 am | Permalink

    ron
    nelson is johnnys stalking horse to make sure the “legacy” theme is maintained.

    now not that this gospel,but from putting 2 and 1 half together ,I actually feel for cossi ina funy sort of way.Even though the organ grinder has been turfed out ,the poor old monkey is still being frustrated by the dead hand of said organ grinder.

    its not that cossi has no cojones,just that he cant get enough ballroom.

  9. 109
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    Gus

    Yes that is beautifullly said
    Guess it would be very heartless of me to suggest th reverse of your last sentense , he having none of th former and still cann’t enough ballroom

  10. 110
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    Nelson is reported in today’s Australian saying that he wont step aside for anybody, and that he’ll lead the Liberals to the next election.

    He apparently has a secret deal with his wife to see the job through

    This is of course highly reminiscent of his former leader John Winston Howard before the last election, when he said, after being beseeched by senior cabinet ministers to resign, that he had talked it over with Janet and the kids and they told him they wanted to remain the First Family, so there.

    It’s good to see the consultative traditions of the Liberal Party being so faithfully carried on, with family values and aspirations being at the forefront, even taking precedence over the entirely vexatious and unnecessary concerns of the party leadership

    Good for the Labor party that is.

  11. 111
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:52 am | Permalink

    Centre reported Nelson also said on LL
    “People have been underestimating me for 20 years”

    By how much , would hav been my next queston , like ar we talking a mm here

  12. 112
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    Well, well, well. I wonder what Turnbull, who claims that tomorrow’s interest rate reduction is a sad reflection of an under-performing economy, will have to say?

    The Australian seems to be throwing in the towel on the “tanking economy, too:

    The latest official figures show no signs of a downturn. Pre-tax profits, which showed little growth in the first nine months of the financial year, leaped ahead in the June quarter, rising by 22 per cent. The biggest contributor to the gain was the windfall profits of the big iron ore and coal miners, which raised mining profits by 33 per cent.

    Profits were strong in other sectors: manufacturing up 17.3 per cent, construction up 21.8 per cent, retail trade up 17 per cent and business services up almost 40 per cent.

    The ANZ’s head of Australian economics, Warren Hogan, said the profit figures, coming after the forecasts last week for a 33 per cent surge in business investment this year, revealed the economy was in much better health than the financial markets believed.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279574-601,00.html

    But, but, but…. Starbucks closed some shops! I thought no-one had any faith in the economy! Whaddabout Cadburys?

    So, have Rudd and Swan talked the economy down? Ruined it with their socialist ineptitude? Should they be blamed for the latest upturn? Why do we need Cozzie to save us when it appears we never needed saving?

    I’m confused.

  13. 113
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 3:13 am | Permalink

    BB “I’m confused”

    Let me lead you to th light then , if you always turn th ‘oz’ upside down then it always makes more sense …then you can even assume th symbols ar chinese crosswords…predicting 2 terms of Keviin 07

    I reckon there will be many ‘happy days’ ahead of many many interst rate decreases , unless a world calamity , so many many more good Kevin07 headlines for 18 months of interest rates going down , econamically don’t think thats too optimistic , although must say unemployment is likely t trend up a bit over that period

  14. 114
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    now reluctantly read that article , see what you mean , it predicts interst rates to go down for a long time but rest of article has confusing or some even contradictory comments , suppose this way th economics writer can never be wrong as he’s backed all th horses

  15. 115
    Aussieguru01
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 4:37 am | Permalink

    What has Alexander Downer done since he’s gone to Cyprus??? Lot a lot!
    (from the Cyprus Mail)

    FOR THE first time since the disastrous Burgenstock lock-in four years ago, the leaders of the two communities will sit down for fully fledged negotiations this Wednesday.

    The 2004 referenda left the Turkish Cypriots beating their chests about their “unjust isolation” while the abject lack of diplomatic charm in the Papadopoulos government had the Greek Cypriots feeling the same.

    The voting public noted the lack of progress on the Cyprus problem in the last elections, leaving Papadopoulos out from the first round. The new government, headed by AKEL chief Demetris Christofias, promised to make an earnest start in ending the decades-old conflict. His Turkish Cypriot counterpart, Mehmet Ali Talat, offered the same.

    Soon after Christofias came to power, the Ledra Street crossing was opened, and the two leaders soon set up six working groups and seven technical committees to prepare the groundwork for direct talks. The technical committees dealt with day-to-day issues and confidence-building measures while the working groups focused on the core elements of a future settlement (security and guarantees, territory, property, governance and power sharing, EU matters and the economy).

    After a little flirting, some bickering, a few domestics and the odd dinner and wedding invite, Talat and Christofias finally agreed to a date and are now ready to start the next “big” effort to solve the Cyprus problem.

    The omens are never bright in Cyprus but with the pro-solution AKP government still in power in Turkey, and two leftist comrades leading negotiations, one could say there is reason to put the zivania in the freezer, just in case.

    The flare up on Friday after the Turkish Cypriot side refused to open the Limnitis checkpoint to allow Greek Cypriot pilgrims to visit Ayios Mamas in Morphou is a clear indication of how far apart the two sides remain and why that bottle of zirvania may never be opened.

    The Sunday Mail asked Presidential Commissioner George Iacovou just what could be expected from this Wednesday’s first meeting.

    “A nice photograph. It’s really the official kick-off but there’ll be no ball game on Wednesday,” said Iacovou.

    The two leaders will meet in the cosy quarters of the UN Chief of Mission Taye-Brook Zerihoun, along with the new UN special envoy for Cyprus, the former Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, for a simple opening ceremony.

    Downer will read a message from the UN Secretary General and give his own comments, after which the two leaders will each make a short statement. There’ll be an informal discussion and then a joint statement released. There’ll be no Beijing-style celebrations on Day One of The Talks.

    “The premises don’t offer the services for a bigger show,” explained Iacovou.

    A week later, September 10, will be the next meeting, where negotiations will start in earnest. The first subject has been suggested by Talat and approved by the Greek Cypriots, who will likely choose the topic of discussion for the following meeting.

    The leaders will meet on average once a week, as prepared in advance. There’ll be no set day for the meetings, which will depend on their commitments. The first break in talks will come between September 20 and 28, when Christofias will be in New York for the UN General Assembly. The working groups will continue to perform both preparatory and detailed work.

    “Once you get going, you need to put the negotiations into the shape of an agreement, so the working groups will be doing plenty of work,” said Iacovou.

    While the two leaders have met informally several times, the preparatory work for direct talks was largely undertaken by the two aides, Iacovou and his younger Turkish Cypriot counterpart Ozdil Nami. The two were responsible for coordinating, supervising and evaluating the work of the technical committees and working groups.

    Both Talat and Christofias have been keen to define the talks as a “Cyprus-owned” process. Though both don’t share the same view on when the process might end, they are in agreement that there will be no outside intervention or strict time frames, unlike 2004. As a result, the actual details of how the talks will be conducted remain specifically vague. Both leaders prefer to play it by ear and see how the first two or three meetings go.

    According to diplomatic sources in New York, Downer will attend the meetings once a month for the first four months, and then move to Cyprus in 2009 to play a more hands-on role. In the meantime, it’s not yet clear whether Zerihoun will deputise in Downer’s absence for negotiations to be conducted in between meetings, using the now familiar Iacovou-Nami connection.

    Speaking from Ankara last week, Talat predicted that the Cyprus problem could be solved by the end of the year. Given Downer’s planned living arrangements for next year, and lack of progress in the key issues of security and guarantees, territory and property, this seems a touch optimistic. It’s more likely the two leaders will take baby steps towards a solution, starting off with the easier issues before digging in to the more thornier chapters.

    As for Downer’s role: “Downer will play a significant role. But the UN Security Council has agreed that this is a Cyprus-owned process. The UN or Downer won’t be taking initiatives or preparing documents unless the leaders ask them,” said Iacovou.

    Asked whether Downer was in danger of becoming a glorified note-taker, the presidential aide replied: “No. It depends on his skills. If he’s sufficiently tactful and bright as opposed to abrupt or reacting on the spur of the moment, then he can make a lot of significant contributions.”

    The official language of the talks is English. There is no cap on the number of people in each delegation, but the confines of space will probably set the maximum at five for each, including the UN team. The Greek Cypriot delegation will be made up of Christofias, Iacovou, a note-taker, interpreter for the odd moment when Talat expresses himself in Turkish, and a fifth person.

    “We could use this fifth seat to rotate people. Depending on the subject, we could bring an expert or someone we trust,” said Iacovou.

    Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

  16. 116
    steve
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    Housing affordability gets a double boost today in Queensland with large State Government stamp duty cuts as well as the likely interest rate cut.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/qld-home-ownership-just-got-easier/2008/09/01/1220121110429.html

  17. 117
    steve
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Now the locks have been changed keeping the Pineapple Party out of the Liberals $2 million headquarters in Brisbane.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279388-5006786,00.html

  18. 118
    The Finnigans
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Oh dear, WTF is happening here. Must be the Alaskan cold:

    Sarah Palin's 17-year-old , unmarried daughter is five months pregnant, the campaign has announced. Hoping to quell internet rumors about about her youngest son, Palin released the news about her daughter Bristol earlier today.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-my-daughter-is-preg_n_122947.html

    Is this a POTUS election or a soap opera?

  19. 119
    rod
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    “Now the locks have been changed keeping the Pineapple Party out”

    Interesting story thanks steve.

    Seems that the LNP cannot get their hands on the building as is held in trust account by the fed libs. I see a future court case as unhappy state libs led by Brough seek to keep state lib assests going to the LNP.

    And another Costello story.

    “All camps were unanimous yesterday that Mr Costello should state finally whether he was staying or going and stop taunting his colleagues and the public.”

    I think he is right, getting more and more like the Jana olympic saga of past years and has just as much interest and respect as that did.

  20. 120
    Muskiemp
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Watched the replay of question time of the HR. It was a pleasure, no shouting or abuse at the Opposition. Dorothy Dixer’s from the Government side and continued questions to the PM from the Opposition re the economy since 26th Nov 07. CPI up,economy down, people’s earning down, inflation up etc.
    Where the PM Rudd (gee that still feels good), answered calmly and confidentially, of course he used some figures to de bunk some, such as peoples earnings, where the figures were showing a 2.5% increase in income but any downturn in earnings was due to the huge fall in the Stock Market which was out of the govt’s hands and the World economy. Also Kevin Rudd accused the Opposition of talking the economy down.
    The PM also blamed the lack of infrastructure for creating a bottle neck in our exports. Who was responsible for this lack of infrastructure?
    All together now – THE HOWARD/COSTELLO Government.

  21. 121
    sondeo
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Muskiemp @ 120 : Personally speaking, PM Rudd is just so different in style to Howard & Co. No ranting, raving etc. Some may say it is bland, but he is making some very good appointments The new Chief Justice should be applauded,

    ROBERT French broke new ground yesterday with a tribute to the role of indigenous people in Australia’s history as he was sworn in as the nation’s 12th Chief Justice.

    Chief Justice French, the first West Australian to fill the role, said his recognition of the Ngunnawal people as the traditional owners of the High Court’s land was “no mere platitude”.

    “The history of Australia’s indigenous people dwarfs, in its temporal sweep, the history that gave rise to the constitution under which this court was created,” he said. “Our awareness and recognition of that history is becoming, if it has not already become, part of our national identity.”

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279488-5013172,00.html

    Shows how really easy it was to say sorry and give respect for pasts mistakes, and how petty Howard & Co really were.

  22. 122
    dyspnoeia
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Re Aussieguru @ 115

    As for Downer’s role: “Downer will play a significant role. But the UN Security Council has agreed that this is a Cyprus-owned process. The UN or Downer won’t be taking initiatives or preparing documents unless the leaders ask them,” said Iacovou.

    Asked whether Downer was in danger of becoming a glorified note-taker, the presidential aide replied: “No. It depends on his skills. If he’s sufficiently tactful and bright as opposed to abrupt or reacting on the spur of the moment, then he can make a lot of significant contributions.

    So much for a united Cyprus then . . . Will this result in war between Turkey and Greece?

  23. 123
    Thomas Paine
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Seems McCain would have been better with Cleese. Pick up the languishing humor vote.

  24. 124
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Palin looks like being the gift that keeps on giving.

    IMO she has shown very poor judgement in boarding a plane with a seven hour trip ahead at 36 weeks pregnant with her waters broken and a baby with Down Syndrome. Babies with Down Syndrome often need ICU after delivery as they frequently have cardiac problems. You could argue that she was recklessly indifferent.

    PS I should add in her defense that the rumour about her daughter really being the mother of the child is pretty ridiculous. The chance of a 16 yo girl having a child with Down Syndrome is negligible (1 in 1250) whereas a 42 yo would have a much higher chance (1 in 60) as the incidence of having a child with Down Syndrome increases with maternal age.

  25. 125
    Socrates
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Yes Diogenes assuming that they picked Palin to appeal to the fundy vote, there are a few risks apparent now. First, why isn’t she staying at home looking after that new born disabled child that needs care? Not to mention that unmarried pregnant daughter. Speaking of which, that brings us to the second problem… Maybe they better vote for a nice responsible, stable Democrat family man instead. ROTFL :)

  26. 126
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    As soon as you see stuff like this, you know it’s going bad.

    Gov. Mark Sanford of South Carolina said that he had heard no discussion about removing Ms. Palin from the ticket.

    It also turns out Palin was a member of some nutter political group that wanted Alaska to secede from the US.

  27. 127
    Thomas Paine
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    You would think Palin would have offered up all this information when being vetted as she and the GOP would have expected a thorough digging around by the media and Democrats. Hopefully McCain didn’t know all this stuff before hand but still decided to proceed.

    Seeing her with a child posing next to a freshly killed Stag is hardly the homely family image you want to convery – or maybe in the USA it is.

  28. 128
    Ron
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I find it remarkable that its OK for th sleeze to be for oiliness but not against oiliness WTF we hav experts knowing more than th family doctor , WTF we have 17 year old kids personal lives subject to ridicule , and yet so much outragousness if such gutter politics is instead used against a ‘left’ candidate Double standards can come back to bite

    But then red herrings still don’t change a phoney being any less a phoney , but it gives meaning to th message “a new style of politcs”

    I like our aussie Kevin Rudd’s “old style of politcs” , standards , contempt for sleeze , and principals…and yesterday in Q & A he displayed that but was still able to dismantle Liberal attacks with dignity, stats and logic

  29. 129
    Thomas Paine
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    “..she was a member for two years in the 1990 of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede..”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

  30. 130
    Thomas Paine
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Actually all this stuff is not that much out of the ordinary but the US media will latch onto anything ‘interesting’ aka Rudd/Murdoch/Scores/Childhood/not knowing tax scales/ etc

    The only distasteful sounding and potential damaging thing would be a possible abuse of powers in trying to have a State Trooper sacked.

    And I am sure they would latch onto anything they could dig up on Obama as well, not as though there isn’t enough right-wing media in the USA.

  31. 131
    Gaffhook
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    126

    Diogenes

    She may well still be part of it. Who knows?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/1/4231/18477/878/581881

  32. 132
    vera
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Finns @ 86
    You’re wicked!
    Fats had better make one of those 2 pairs of shoes he needs walking to New Orleans gum boots.

  33. 133
    vera
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a thought!
    Limelight seeking Oilbama has hardly got a mention since Palin came on the sceen, bet he’s sulking big time.
    And I don’t reckon the hillbilly, factory workers, dirt farmer type that Oil needs would give a stuff if she gave birth to an alien with 2 heads, lol.
    She’s their kinda woman. Hell being unmarried and having a kid when you’re 14 is the norm for them folk. Just ask Jerry Springer!

  34. 134
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Gaffhook

    So she’s infiltrated the Repugs to help Alaska secede hey! Isn’t that Unamerican? Didn’t Georgia and Russia have a war over South Ossetia wanting to secede?

    Ron

    It’s background, not sleaze. The public has a right to know. Who am I to tell the voting public what is relevant and what isn’t? ;)

  35. 135
    vera
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    ‘would’ should be wouldn’t

  36. 136
    Greensborough Growler
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Diogenes,

    You may be besotted by the sleaze. However, this is the only type of background that really counts.

    http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/481733.html

  37. 137
    Dario
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    And I don’t reckon the hillbilly, factory workers, dirt farmer type that Oil needs would give a stuff if she gave birth to an alien with 2 heads, lol.

    The hillbilly factory workers were never going to vote for Obama anyway. It wouldn’t matter who was on the Republican ticket…

  38. 138
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    GG

    Read the comments on that link. Like this one;

    Yippy!

    Break out the Bud-Light!

    Our government just passed a law allowing themselves to stuff $500 mn into a giant burn barrel and set it ablaze! It’s an ‘amazing achivement’ alright. Duped again by a soothsaying poltico Alaska, way to go!

    Well what now folks?

    I wonder who is going to get a FERC certification and a successful open season? Will it be TC with zero nat gas reserves, $500 mn in public funding and a cereal box AGIA ‘license’ or will it be the leaseholding producers that have billions in capitol and trillions of cubic feet of nat gas to sell?

    Hmmm…

  39. 139
    vera
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Dario
    Strange that? So you are saying the poorest lowest paid in the USA always vote Repub?
    I’ll admit I don’t have the interest or inclination to delve deep into US politics but I thought Democrats = Labor, Repubs = Fibs?
    Blimey sorry I got it so wrong, all these years I shoulda been cheering for Bush! Yikes!

  40. 140
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    vera

    It’s a much debated point exactly how true it is but the conventional wisdom is that if you live in a small town, own a gun, and barely make enough to survive despite working like a dog then you vote Repug. It’s why we keep losing. Bill Clinton got enough to vote for him to win but he’s about it.

    There’s a great book on it called “Deer Hunting With Jesus” by Baigent.

  41. 141
    vera
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Diogenes, the sad thing is that perhaps Hillary may have been able to do the same with Bill’s help.
    we’ll never know now.

  42. 142
    Socrates
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    I think you can explain the Republican vote by Howard’s line of the “aspirational voter”. Its the rich and those who long to be rich (the poor) that vote for them. Those in the middle are more likely to vote Democrat.

    It wasn’t always like that – after Roosevelt’s new deal in the 30s the poor vote was solidly Democrat for a long time. But LBJs decision to end segregation in the 60s cost the Democrats the poor white vote from then on. Poor blacks still vote Democrat.

  43. 143
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    vera

    As an Obama supporter even I admit that Hillary would have won more easily than Obama (probably) will. She had that Appalacian redneck vote in the palm of her hand.

  44. 144
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    vera and Socrates

    When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act it into law he acknowledged that he “lost the South for the Democrats for at least a generation” which proved to be true.

  45. 145
    Socrates
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Back to Australina politics, and at the risk of rubbing it in, another bad news story about the financing of Gunns pulp mill:
    http://business.smh.com.au/business/forests-threat-for-gunns-20080902-47mv.html?page=1

    As I have said for a while, the economics of the pulp mill proposal were always very suspect. Gunns were basically hoping to get all the approvals and then flog off some of teh ownership to whoever to raise the cash to build it. But as the article shows, they (Gunns) still have a lot of debt and already have enough trouble refinancing their existing operation. Still no sign of the identity of the alleged foreign investor Gunns referred to before.

  46. 146
    Dario
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and the Reserve cut rates by 25bp. Nostradamus Nelson fails again.

  47. 147
    The Finnigans
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    #79 & #80
    Dyno – [Finnigans, Surely there must be a less complicated way to start WW III?] & [Secessionist Sarah: VP pick Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party]

    Dyno, i was right, something is fishy at Anchorage. LOL, it has been rejected by John West.

    Dont tell me Sarah Palin is a Russian’s mole. Is the Alaska Independence Party seeking to re-join the Russian Motherland?

  48. 148
    MayoFeral
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Ron @ 104 -

    MayoFeral link actualy shows she was one month early not two months , but link also ommitted she checked with her doctor first even before her speech

    That link does indeed state that she was 1 month premature, but I’d already seen other information that the child was born at about 35-36 weeks. Normal gestation is 42 weeks.

    Since my first post on the subject I’ve learnt that Palin’s flight wasn’t direct but included a stop in Seattle which adds at least another 30 minutes to the journey, and more likely 60-90 minutes.

    I wonder what the FAA regulations on transporting women in labour are? Pretty sure it’d be an outright ban considering that:

    Obstetrical patients are free to fly, but pose a significant risk in later stages of precipitating delivery during flight. Pregnancy past 32 weeks should be carefully considered for restriction from flight and must be accompanied with an authorization note from a doctor. Those past 36 weeks should be prohibited from flying unless personally accompanied by their doctor.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071227193411AAFTniX

    A state governor would not be exempt from a federal regulation, nor would her doctor!

    Your link , regarding th Trooper (and not blaming you) but article omits the Trooper was “elegible” to be fired because he had been found guilty by Police of infractions with his former wife (sister of Palin) and using a Taser stun gun on his stepson Fox News

    So? Surely that was a decision for his superiors, not the governor of the state?

    Seems this woman has as little regard for the law as the current President which might be telling us a lot about why she got the gig.

  49. 149
    Diogenes
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    MF

    Just quietly, normal gestation is 40 weeks.

    Finns

    When that $500M Alaskan gas pipeline turns out to go across the Bering Strait into Russia all will become clear.

  50. 150
    Just Me
    Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    From the Newspoll thread:
    743
    Socrates Says:
    September 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
    I think we are all agreed on Turnbull: he is not up to running the economy. He never was. He is a smart lawyer and a deal maker. That was the world he worked in and was very succesful in. But I doubt he’s ever done any economic analysis. Without treasury and finance experts to brief him and make him look good, he will struggle.

    Turnbull has his fair share of potentially fatal flaws. But it would be a serious mistake to underestimate him, he is very sharp and a very quick learner.

    ••••••••••••••••••

    143
    Diogenes Says:
    As an Obama supporter even I admit that Hillary would have won more easily than Obama (probably) will. She had that Appalacian redneck vote in the palm of her hand.

    Is there any good poll data about this? On the face of it I would have thought Hillary would have been almost as unpopular in that demographic as Obama.

    (Not challenging you, I am genuinely interested in this question.)

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