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	<title>Comments on: Mayo by-election thread</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
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		<title>By: William Bowe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184927</link>
		<dc:creator>William Bowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 08:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184927</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/936&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New thread&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/936" rel="nofollow">New thread</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: ziggy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184918</link>
		<dc:creator>ziggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184918</guid>
		<description>Josh WK:

The DLP have been against a Carbon Tax/Trade right from the beginning.

It serves no purpose.  Will do no good.   The burden on the poorest people in our community will be far to great.

One only has to look at warnings coming out of Europe.   The greens will only increase the burden on the poorest people in our community.

Bob Brown even wants to shut down all coal power stations.

The extreme green ideology hopefully has reached its peak and once people start to realise the danger of this ideology they will desert it in droves.

Young 18 year olds grow up someday you know


Ziggy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh WK:</p>
<p>The DLP have been against a Carbon Tax/Trade right from the beginning.</p>
<p>It serves no purpose.  Will do no good.   The burden on the poorest people in our community will be far to great.</p>
<p>One only has to look at warnings coming out of Europe.   The greens will only increase the burden on the poorest people in our community.</p>
<p>Bob Brown even wants to shut down all coal power stations.</p>
<p>The extreme green ideology hopefully has reached its peak and once people start to realise the danger of this ideology they will desert it in droves.</p>
<p>Young 18 year olds grow up someday you know</p>
<p>Ziggy</p>
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		<title>By: Josh WK</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184885</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh WK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184885</guid>
		<description>As a matter of fact Ziggy, that&#039;s why I support Vonow.

And you&#039;re wrong if you think the ALP supports a carbon tax. They don&#039;t. That&#039;s why they&#039;re not creating one while they&#039;re in government.

I support the Gs because they might actually put a real price on carbon emissions. Because the Greens are the only party talking about acting on climate change and supporting those on the lowest income to get through the pain that action will cause - pension increase (long before the Libs or DLP said anything); assistance for low income earners; feed-in laws &amp; efficiency retrofits to help households earn money from a clean energy future, rather than just paying as they will under your model (either now or 30 years down the track). Acting now means less pain, zigs, not more.

Environmental action + social justice campaigning. Sounds right up your alley!

Unfortch - still don&#039;t think Vonow&#039;ll win it. Briggs has it for now (fervently hoping I&#039;m wrong).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a matter of fact Ziggy, that&#8217;s why I support Vonow.</p>
<p>And you&#8217;re wrong if you think the ALP supports a carbon tax. They don&#8217;t. That&#8217;s why they&#8217;re not creating one while they&#8217;re in government.</p>
<p>I support the Gs because they might actually put a real price on carbon emissions. Because the Greens are the only party talking about acting on climate change and supporting those on the lowest income to get through the pain that action will cause &#8211; pension increase (long before the Libs or DLP said anything); assistance for low income earners; feed-in laws &amp; efficiency retrofits to help households earn money from a clean energy future, rather than just paying as they will under your model (either now or 30 years down the track). Acting now means less pain, zigs, not more.</p>
<p>Environmental action + social justice campaigning. Sounds right up your alley!</p>
<p>Unfortch &#8211; still don&#8217;t think Vonow&#8217;ll win it. Briggs has it for now (fervently hoping I&#8217;m wrong).</p>
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		<title>By: rod</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184819</link>
		<dc:creator>rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184819</guid>
		<description>Tim

I think at the last fed election about 75% of FF preferences went to labor, which went against their HTV and what FF stands for.

51% does sound a bit low, majors primary is around 80%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim</p>
<p>I think at the last fed election about 75% of FF preferences went to labor, which went against their HTV and what FF stands for.</p>
<p>51% does sound a bit low, majors primary is around 80%.</p>
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		<title>By: coconaut</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184818</link>
		<dc:creator>coconaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184818</guid>
		<description>Wakefield@78 ... 35% at first sounds low to guarantee the Liberal the seat, but as this thread has teased out the numbers, it is probably realistic. With a solid base for the FF candidate and some Labor party transfer to the Liberals, getting that last 15% shouldn&#039;t be too hard for the Libs.

That&#039;s the beauty of PR in my mind, it doesn&#039;t matter if 60% of the candidates are from one side of politics, if 60% of voters want someone from the other side, he or she&#039;ll get in.

And to be fair, if you can get 35% in an election with 11 candidates then your team has done something right!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wakefield@78 &#8230; 35% at first sounds low to guarantee the Liberal the seat, but as this thread has teased out the numbers, it is probably realistic. With a solid base for the FF candidate and some Labor party transfer to the Liberals, getting that last 15% shouldn&#8217;t be too hard for the Libs.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the beauty of PR in my mind, it doesn&#8217;t matter if 60% of the candidates are from one side of politics, if 60% of voters want someone from the other side, he or she&#8217;ll get in.</p>
<p>And to be fair, if you can get 35% in an election with 11 candidates then your team has done something right!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184806</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184806</guid>
		<description>The last Australian Electoral Study, which I think is put out by ANU, found that 51% of all voters reported following the how to vote card. Probably a bit higher but it isn&#039;t up to 75%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last Australian Electoral Study, which I think is put out by ANU, found that 51% of all voters reported following the how to vote card. Probably a bit higher but it isn&#8217;t up to 75%.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Robins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184794</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 04:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184794</guid>
		<description>Just visited a Stirling polling booth.  HTVs handed out for Bell, Brewerton, Briggs, Castrique, Day and Vonow. Briggs gets preferences from no-one.  Day has a big, finely printed HTV on quality paper but let&#039;s &quot;You decide&quot; who to preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just visited a Stirling polling booth.  HTVs handed out for Bell, Brewerton, Briggs, Castrique, Day and Vonow. Briggs gets preferences from no-one.  Day has a big, finely printed HTV on quality paper but let&#8217;s &#8220;You decide&#8221; who to preference.</p>
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		<title>By: Wakefield</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184767</link>
		<dc:creator>Wakefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 03:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184767</guid>
		<description>80 Diogenes.  The figures quoted are for the final outcome which includes people who get the same result through another method or just luck rather than follow HTV.  With minor parties and independents there is a much lower % who strictly follow HTV but again a higher % who end up at the same place just through restricted choice when its down to distribution between only 2 or 3 candidates left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>80 Diogenes.  The figures quoted are for the final outcome which includes people who get the same result through another method or just luck rather than follow HTV.  With minor parties and independents there is a much lower % who strictly follow HTV but again a higher % who end up at the same place just through restricted choice when its down to distribution between only 2 or 3 candidates left.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184762</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184762</guid>
		<description>Wakefield

I can&#039;t find all the references but there is this on Wiki. This one says prefenence leakage is only 20%.

&lt;blockquote&gt; Supporters of the parties and individual candidates hand out &quot;How to Vote&quot; cards (HTVs) at the entrance to polling stations or distributed with election material sent in the post, advising voters how to fill in their ballots to support that party or candidate. The information published on a how to vote card is a recommendation only and no voter is obliged to vote as published, but up to 80% of voters follow the recommendations of their preferred party or candidate. The proportion of voters that choose not to follow their preferred candidate&#039;s recommendations is called the &quot;preference leakage&quot;[2]. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wakefield</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find all the references but there is this on Wiki. This one says prefenence leakage is only 20%.</p>
<blockquote><p> Supporters of the parties and individual candidates hand out &#8220;How to Vote&#8221; cards (HTVs) at the entrance to polling stations or distributed with election material sent in the post, advising voters how to fill in their ballots to support that party or candidate. The information published on a how to vote card is a recommendation only and no voter is obliged to vote as published, but up to 80% of voters follow the recommendations of their preferred party or candidate. The proportion of voters that choose not to follow their preferred candidate&#8217;s recommendations is called the &#8220;preference leakage&#8221;[2]. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting</a></p>
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		<title>By: ziggy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/01/mayo-by-election-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-184748</link>
		<dc:creator>ziggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/930#comment-184748</guid>
		<description>Josh WK:

That would just excelate the governments plans to implement this regressive
carbon tax on the poorest in the community.


Lets say no to this monster tax and vote for the only one who will do all he can to stop it.   (He will gain a lion share of both sides preferences as well).

Lets all go David McCabe (DLP) for Mayo or forever be lumbered with this tax on the poor and small and regional businesses.

These bi elections are our last chance to send a message

Ziggy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh WK:</p>
<p>That would just excelate the governments plans to implement this regressive<br />
carbon tax on the poorest in the community.</p>
<p>Lets say no to this monster tax and vote for the only one who will do all he can to stop it.   (He will gain a lion share of both sides preferences as well).</p>
<p>Lets all go David McCabe (DLP) for Mayo or forever be lumbered with this tax on the poor and small and regional businesses.</p>
<p>These bi elections are our last chance to send a message</p>
<p>Ziggy</p>
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