Brendan Nelson has thrown the Liberal leadership open to a party room vote tomorrow morning. A source quoted by the ABC calls the move a “suicide mission” and “predicts Malcolm Turnbull has the numbers to take the leadership”. Nelson defeated Turnbull in the first round five days after the November 24 election by 45 votes to 42.
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Liberal leadership: round two
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520 Comments
Jeez, William, you’re fast. Still beat you to cracking the story, BB. Grins and stuff.
Just noticed – tonight is a full moon and everything is behaving just like it.
Brenda throwing the dice, world stock markets in confusion etc.
A busy night for allbull with the phone glued to his ear.
None of this matters to me. Because we now have a Liberal-National Government somewhere in Australia, anyways GO BRENDAN NELSON. I predict Nelson will win by 11 votes!
For what it’s worth …
The Australian, 16 August 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24188998-601,00.html
No doubt Turnbull will contest the ballet.
In his media release Nelson says that he will nominate. There goes Costello. Seems that Turnbull has the numbers.
Only a spill of the leader, Ms Mesmer is safe? – maybe.
James J,
The thought of Turnbull contesting the “ballet” has not helped my libido.
Who really cares, everyone knows that Mr. Rudd will win the next election and most likely increasing there seats. All libs that disagree please post as i will save them then post them back to show how you really don’t know what you are talking about. GP. please.
Honest John, I do hope Brendon wins, but even more that Malcolm does. It really doesn’t get any better than either outcome, frankly, because neither can unite the party. While the LNP continue with this lurching from populist stunts to internal warfare, they are cactus as an effective opposition. Not good for our system of gov’t.in the medium to long term, but handy in the short term, for Labor to get some real stuff into the outcomes pipeline.
Nelson wins is a vote for his guts and determination to take on all challengers.
Or
Nelson wins is a vote for more indifference from the electorate.
Turnbull wins is vote to take Australia in to the future.
Or
Turnbull wins is a vote to more Liberal Party infighting.
You decide!
Possum beat ya.
Honest John – doesn’t bother me either. Labor still has 8 governments in power and more importantly in Victoria and federally.
It’s Malcolm, Malcolm’s the one.
If Nelson wins he’ll have 6 months.
If Turnbull wins he’ll have 12 months.
They may as well elect Abbott now.
Rumor on 7.30 Report Abbott may have done a deal with Turnbull and contest deputy position. Now that will be hilarious.
It really does not matter who wins, the issue is the winner needs to win big. Not 40 ish – 40 ish.
Brenda cannot get a workable majority – Talcum may be able to.
Otherwise we have Howard – Peacock – Howard – Peacock etc. etc. MkII
Turnbull is a vote of more of the same.I have not seen anything from him to make me believe that he will get a preferred PM into the 30’s.
GG. Baked beans and jam for all- vote Brendon; cassoulet with a nice chardonnay and a selection of cheeses with quince paste and a nice sticky for all – vote Malcolm.
Good Luck Malcolm Turnbull! Bring the Liberal Party back to the centre , especially on social issues and you will be back in Government quicktime!
Well in the 4 Corners bio on Turnbull from a few weeks ago Abbott did say that Turnbull was “destined for big things”. By that I guess Abbott meant making him Deputy Leader.
Ahhhh the post-government blues…
Harry,
My take is that Malcolm loses, goes to the back bench and waits. It will then be a matter of time.
Do you seriously think Nelson is going to turn things around.
Anyone else having trouble getting access to Possum’s site?
Wow! Bizarre move by Nelson.
It is about time. Kudos for Nelson for having the courage to call the spill amidst all the infighting.
Brissendon on the 7.30 report said that apparently Nelson gave one of his best and most impassioned speeches ever.
Well, I’ll still claim it: “Frist!” … this should have been post #1, but William’s sense of humour and history must be in idle tonight.
There is no question that Turnbull will win tomorrow.
How can the Libs possibly elect Mr. 16%?
I don’t care whether he’s going to change the Lib gay marriage guidelines or go in harder on the ETS, they can’t elect someone so unelectable (electable, that is, at the only poll that counts).
Gotta give Brenda this, though: he’s got more guts than Costello ever dreamt of having. “A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse! Aaaaaaarggggh!”
Very reminiscent of Beazley’s failed attempt at snookering Rudd. Only… Beazley gave Rudd a week. Brenda’s so unsure of himself that he probably thinks 14 hours is too much.
Heavens, GG. You must have seriously misread me. I was taking the p**s out of both outcomes, though at least Brendon has taken on the spill, and as I said before, more than Costello ever did.
I might add that I argued for Nelson to call a snap spill to catch Costello/Turnbull off guard.
Nelson’s done the right thing here. It’s crash through or crash.
Am I the only one who thinks Turnbull won’t contest this and Nelson will be re-elected unopposed (or with some token opposition)?
If so, time and place people, I’ll predict that here. I am, at this stage, unwilling to offer a hat to eat. But that’s because I like all of my hats, and one can never rule out the fact Turnbull is ever so slightly ambitious.
There must have been some serious happenings on behind the scene.
To be expected really after Nelson’s pathetic performance today.
Turnbull will get in over the dead bodies of Minchin, Costello and the rest of the right-wing hard-heads.
Nelson by a nose.
Me too. Great minds.
GP,
Nelson is a dead parrot. You reckon he would get his own vote in a real spill?
Max, it’s already been announced that Turnbull is contesting the leadership.
Yes.
Turnbull is not Peter Costello. He knows how to fight.
Max @ 30: Turnbull will run. He hasb’t spent the last 9 months destabilizing Brenda for nothing.
So does Nelson. good on ‘em!
No 34
Who knows, from what Brissendon was saying many Lib MPs were impressed with his speech at the emergency meeting. He may well survive.
But frankly this had to happen. The party has treated him appallingly and it has to be settled once and for all.
I don’t like Turnbull because he wants to say “sorry” to children that were never stolen.
Has anyone realise this mean Cozzie’s book is in the remainder bin by next saturday?
I find it hilarious that half the Liberal Party hate Turnbull because he’s TOO liberal.
You could be right, Max @ 30. Malcolm could be smart and not contest, but I suspect his ego won’t let him, and the rest of the rabble, stuck in their “leader/messiah rescue us from this unnatural position of being in opposition, and return us to our natural position of ruling” mode, will vote him in. Good luck to you with that.
No 42
liberal in the left-wing sense, cuppa.
Gary –
I must have missed that, where abouts? Can’t see it on ABC/news/fairfax
No 43
Come off it snapper. Neither party seriously believes that their natural state is to be in opposition.
30 Max, I think you may be right. Turnbull doesn’t need to challenge yet… but then he might as well throw his hat into the ring.. you don’t need to win the first time you challenge – Keating didn’t, and even Fraser lost to Snedden in the first challenge (in fact Snedden did the same thing as Nelson is doing in 75; it worked the first time, but didn’t kill off Fraser).
Red Kerry announced it Max. He seemed pretty sure about it. It wasn’t a maybe.
BB. Back on the other thread, I suggested that Costello may actually knife Brendon due to the impact of the spill on the launch of the Great Book.
It is too soon for Turnbull. Maybe he wont stand yet. Then again having Turnbull may give them a bounce in the poll and help remove the worry of a DD later.
GP,
I actually agree with your assessment. But, the plain facts are that the voters regard Nelson as a dud atm. No doubt he will take this very hard personally. However, there is always a chance of a comeback if he has the bottle. Furthermore, he will be completely removed from the internecine fight that is about to happen.
Turnbull is not popular within his Party and the dark forces are bound to want to see him smitten.
Nelson may re emerge in about five years as a genuine leadership contender.
No 49
I was resolute in arguing that Nelson should spill prior or on the launch of the book. That way if Costello truly means what he says, the matter would be finally settled.
The irony of course is that Costello was due to spruik his book on Commy Kerry’s show this evening until the surprise spill was called.
There must be quite a few blue-rinse (and other) monarchists in the Liberal-supporting bloc getting toey roundabout now.
Does anyone think anything other than a Turnbull win will kill off leadership problems?
Didn’t think so.
No 51
I doubt your assessment that Turnbull is not popular. The MPs that are opposed to him are mostly concerned with his inexperience in the parliament and lack of fine-tuned political judgment. Others are concerned that he is a trot.
Odds are that he’ll win tomorrow, but frankly it is shamefully disappointing that Nelson has been treated with such contempt by his own colleagues both in the media and elsewhere.
GP @ 46. You may believe that. It’s a question of whether you are prepared to do the work to mount a credible alternative. Not happening with your mob, I’m afraid. In my view, not going to happen for some, possibly, considerable time. I don’t think either Nelson or Turnbull can unite the LNP and bring the sort of discipline that Rudd brought to Labor.
No 54
Even if Turnbull wins, the speculation won’t necessarily end. Costello has expressed much angst at the thought of Turnbull leading. It is my opinion that Costello will run for leader tomorrow.
fun fun fun!
No 56
Snapper, again, your living with the fairies. People who join the ALP or the Libs in the parliament want to govern at some point. No-one likes being in opposition and the chaos that characterises the current opposition is not too dissimilar to the ALP five years ago.
Goodness, GP, did you read something I posted earlier, in total mischief mode?
Don’t assume Turnball will win!
A large section of the Liberal Party hates the man, they’d prefer to keep a tool like Nelson as leader!
Whoever wins, let it be as close a vote as possible, I want a completely destabilised opposition!
Gary –
Did he? I haven’t seen that, but I’ll take it at your word. Mind you, nobody else has dared to pre-empt it yet. You would suspect that if Turnbull IS going to run, he will announce it in the next couple of hours. He won’t want to give Nelson the front page to himself tomorrow if a number of MP’s are still on the fence.
My thinking is though… challenge now and he goes to the backbench. It worked for Keating yes but Keating had 8 or so years of being Treasurer under his belt, and didn’t exactly need the exposure to try and prove himself.
Turnbull would probably benefit from the added six-twelve months from being shadow-Treasurer, taking pot shots as Swan as the economy begins to slide down the toilet. Would also show his ‘loyalty.’ I think Milne had a point (sorry guys) on the weekend when he suggested that it is in his best interests to wait and give off the illusion he has ‘learnt patience.’ But logic doesn’t always win out against ambition.
Anyway, we’ll see.
GP,
I am not trying to be cute.
Minchin, Abbott and his block etc. are all in the “Anyone but Turnbull” faction. These are the serious heavies of the liberal Party. Abbott as deputy to Turnbull. Watch your back!
Turnbull to win but will it matter much? His instincts will take him back toward the centre ground (republic, reconciliation, environment, etc) – but will the right of the party accept that or his autocratic style? For that matter, will marginal voters take to him? He will surely do better than Nelson, but I suspect not very much.
Quick question, and then I’ll get back on topic. Where does Cossie stand on the republic issue?
Premier-elect Colin Barnett should give some words of wisdom to the federal Libs I say. Our federal brand is being damaged with this stop-start routine. The federal Libs need a clean spoken, straight-forward individual like Colin. Who agrees?
Your wrong GG. Abbott, certainly, is not anyone but Turnbull. Abbott and the others have only really criticised Turnbull’s experience. Anything else is just a media fabrication.
you’re not your
Cuppa – Costello supports becoming a republic.
Thanks Tobias.
The support for a republic has collapsed anyway according to all recent polls. Go to norepublic.com.au for more information.
Where does Cossie stand on the republic issue?
Exactly where Nick Minchin tells him to.
GP @ 58,
Off topic, but,
Rob Hulls, The current Victorian AG parked next to Jeff Kennett fcoincidentally just after Labor won the election in 1999.
As you do when you are talking to someone you work with but work against but meet in non structured situation you chat amiably.
Apparently, Kennett said, “Congratulations on winning Government. Every Parliamentarian should have the opportunity to be in Government”.
Hulls said, “Thank you for the Opportunity”.
Rubbish, Fag.
Turnbull is a shoo-in tomorrow. It’s inconceiveable that they’ll go with Mr. 16%.
But the other thing I like about this is that Cozzie’s book is now ancient histoy.
As are Cozzie’s (and his spruikers’, like shanahan) ambitions.
This is the first smart thing Nelson has done.
Pity it’s also the last.
Costello will be in the islands working the Family Business by year’s end. Turnbull will be leader on 30% (and falling).
Nelson will be Shadow Minister for Somrthing-Irrelevant.
And Kevin Rudd will still be Prime Minister, will still be miles ahead of the Opposition (large or small “O”).
Well he should, but he is too gutless.
GP @ 57,
You speculate that Costello will run tomorrow? ROTFL …… if so, that will make QT one big barrel of laughs, I am really looking forward to TH now, I always try to watch but TH will be there in person … whether Turnbull or anyone else, this will be grand entertainment
No 76
We shall see.
GP,
Opinions can never be wrong. Maybe misinformed.
The reality is that Minchin, Abbott and Co will do everyting they can to do over Turnbull and his small Liberal values. This includes making him Leader of the Opposition.
Cuppa @ 65,
He supports it. His ONE repeat ONE redeeming feature in this ALP voters eye
No 79
You are misinformed and wrong.
No 80
juliem, we already have an Australian head of state. The republic is a waste of time and money. You lot can’t even work out what model you want and yet, Australians are expected to place a vote of no confidence in one of the Western World’s most stable democracies.
GP @ 58. Of course I’m living with the fairies, and Santa, and, and, and the tooth fairy.
Truly, I don’t know why I bother. I’ve figured out you’re fairly youngish, but do you smile, tell jokes, enjoy the ironies of life, a bit of satire?
Do you know there have been great and enduring friendships across LNP and Labor party lines? Usually are people of intellect, wit and compassion, who could respect each others’ party affiliations and allegiance, while still respecting, liking and having admiration for each other.
In short, sometimes, I have my tongue in my cheek, and sometimes, there’s a point behind the joke.
Come on GP, I enjoy reading your thoughts on various matters and yes, you cleverly have an “out”(see, it’s easy) by saying you were just shortening Fagins name… but you don’t need to do that cheap stuff, I respect you more when you stick with your well written opinions, not cheap taunts
A careless error Spam box
It certainly hasn’t been a dull couple of weeks in Australian Politics.
GP, as soon as the Queen dies the Republic will cruise it in
No 83
The problem is, your disparaging and disingenuous dismissals of anything to do with the Liberal party is not conducive to a relationship of mutual intellectual respect.
GP@ 81,
I am neither.
As an apparatchik of the Libs, where do you stand on the leadersip and why?
The Fibs are going to be sorely wedged on the republic issue if Allbull gets up tomorrow.
No 89
If you believe you are neither, you should state your sources. The fact is you haven’t spoken to any Liberal parliamentarian to make those presumptions.
No 90
Since we’re on a path of disrespecting politicians by calling them infantile names, I shall refer to Mr Rudd as Krudd, Ms Wong as Pong, Garrett as Terrets and Swan as Dill.
Cuppa,
It would be the first thing that Rudd and Co should start talking about. Wedgie the Libs with the ultimate underpants accessory.
Oh god here we go again.
Nelson wants to go in all guns blazing, but had the MPs who didnt end up winning their seat not had a vote Malcolm would have been the leader 10 months ago.
This smacks of desparation. Oh well at least it will be over and done with.
I fear we shall have a new leader tomorrow.
Also is the deputy job going to be up for a vote??? I hope Julie wins but Fat Tony may get it or Robb.
I would be asking leader Turnbull if he can guarantee that Workchoices in all its disguises is totally and absolutely finished as a Liberal party policy. There are those in the party that still have a flame for it.
However if Turnbull is smart he will manage is ego and not let his ego manage him and delay his challenge until the new year.
Feel the wedge, GP, feel the wedge …
Check the timing! Why now? Sure Turnbull is back in town, but what was wrong with next week? It scotches Nelson’s OWN pension attacks on the government.
No: there’s only one explanation. He’s stuffing up Cossie’s book launch! Serves Smirker right for generally wasting everyone’s time with his Hamlet routine.
No 94
The Deputy Leadership has not been spilt.
Dario @ 87, especially so now that the news broke from London today that Charles is trying to sneak his Queen in via the back door …..
Oh come on GP, allbull is sooo descriptive!
Robb is a clever guy, they could do worse.
I just love this. Brenda or Turnbull or Abbott or Hockey. WGAF because it will solve nothing as long as Cossie is still there smirking.
The Fibs will still sit there with their month open waiting for Godot Cossie.
Cossie’s revenge, how sweet it is.
Nelson is either a genius for doing this or a fool. We’ll know when we get the results of the ballot tomorrow morning.
This means Turnbull and Abbott havent had time to canive and sort out who’d get what, and Nelson could look decisive and like a leader by doing this.
Either way a spill was going to happen, Nelson has done it when he still thinks he can win it.
GP @97, never say never ….. (from the Melbourne Herald Sun) “Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop has not indicated she plans to stand aside from her position.
However, during tomorrow’s meeting, one of her colleagues could call for a spill of the position.
The matter would have to go to the vote.
A spokesman said Ms Bishop was not making any comment tonight. “
No 101
He’s caught the two most likely contenders totally off guard: Costello and Turnbull.
Costello was busy backstabbing and saying that he wasn’t spineless. Now he has to prove it.
Turnbull has been on an Italian siesta in Venice and hasn’t canvassed support.
Tomorrow morning shall be interesting.
*sigh*
Oh well. At least I didn’t fence sit. And I still have my hat!!
GP I agree it’s a good surprise move – unless it is to counter a “surprise” move by Turnbull that he got wind of.
Perhaps the real Malcolm will be revealed when he won’t have to embarrass himself any more by waffling along in support of the untenable and the hopeless. And with a bit of intellect up front, perhaps there will not be the same need for his colleagues’ confected rage and childish stunts.
I recall Beazley did a similar thing in December 2006. That turned out well for him.
Guess it just hastens the inevitable
Ok, if Turnbull wins who gets shadow Treasury, and what will Nelson do?
No 106
Mog, we saw plenty of stunts from Labor over the last 12 years. Remember ease the squeeze, ladder of opportunity, whingeing bitching Simon, bomber the waffler?
Malcolm in the Middle.
This is Brendan’s Maxwell Smart trick to take the attention away from his failure to produce his private member bill on the Pension Increase today. good thinking 99.
No 111
1. The private member bill is unconstitutional in the lower house.
2. It is constitutional in the upper house.
Turnbull is definately in:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24350022-601,00.html
No, please don’t! It hurts too much!
GP,
my point exactly
This is wrong. You can’t initiate an appropriation bill in the Senate; it is unconstitutional.
No 115
If the Coalition introduces it in the upper house, it will easily get the support of the two independents and the Greens.
116 GP – that is old news now.
Apologies. My bad.
On Sky news news, Spears says Tony Smith and Mitch Fifield support Nelson. Apparently Smith voted for Turnbull in Novemebr.
Also apparently Smith and Fifield both worked for Costello in the past…
118 lol. Well I guess if Nelson gets up it’s still alive.
I have to say I don’t agree with you on Costello challenging. I think he’s resigned (at least for the moment) to being the power behind the thrown (such that it is).
The more I think about it, the more I think Nelson is doing this because of Costello, not Turnbull. Costello not resigning and refusing to give a definite answer re: a leadership challenge has forced Nelson to do something he hasn’t done for 10 months, show leadership.
Failing leaders often call this particular stunt and it rarely benefits them.
I just love that it interrupts Costello flogging his book. Beautiful timing by Nelson (intentional I hope).
It’s called a “Hail Mary” pass in American football.
Does anyone know of the list of how people voted last time?
No 125
Even if he loses the leadership, Nelson has done the right thing. If he was destined to lose the job, it would be pointless continuing on when he clearly lacked the support of his party and of the public.
Dario
It’s REALLY going to piss off Costello. If he doesn’t challenge now, that stuff about him having ticker etc will never fly. If he does challenge and lose, he’s even more of an embarrassment than ever. If he challenges and wins, he’s stuck in a job he doesn’t want with a now irrelevant book.
I guess, but Nelson figures he’d win sooner rather than later against Malcolm.
James J is right about Beazley, when a floundering leader is flopping about in the boat someone is going to eventually bop it.
What could Nelson do though if he loses?
Well i suppose Robb would take Treasury and Nelson would either sit on the backbench or get Foreign Affairs.
No 130
It shouldn’t really annoy Costello. After all, he has let the rumours fly and allowed the speculation to continue since November last year.
No 132
Nelson could get health given his ministerial an vocational experience.
Who has health now?
Diog, i heard Cossie’s wife said something like this on AM or RN this morning: “Cossie is a man of his words. So people should take his words that he is not interested in the Fibs Leadership”. If he goes against his own words, he aint got no place to hide.
Joe Hockey
yeah Robb to treasury would make some sense (I don’t think much of him, but most think he’s wasted in foreign affairs).
GP back @ 88. Keep up that attitude. It’s doing wonders for you. That you would think you can simply appear here and expect automatic respect for a party and fortunately ex-government that has done so much damage, on balance, as opposed to good things for the country, speaks volumes about your comprehension of both the people who post here, and political process in Australia.
I’ve been googleing to try and find the answer. Please, why is Brendon called emo man?
No 135
Yes, Fin but he failed to completely rule out a challenge which to my mind indicates he may still challenge.
Except that everything was in his control with that. Now that he has his book planned for release Nelson comes along and upstages him. Yeah, he’ll be pissed off all right.
The question is whether the other job Deputy will be spilled. If Turnbull wins I suspect it will be spilled, though Julie would be favourite to win given the Sarah Palin hype at the moment.
No 138
Harry, I’m sorry but the fact that you consider the majority of the Howard Government constituted heinous damage to Australia automatically rules out any impartiality you might think you have.
The fact that government is voted out is not a rejection of everything they did. If you think otherwise, you are very much mistaken.
Colin Barnett said was retiring, now he’s premier. I think if Costello changed his mind the Libs would be happy to forgive him. (What the public might think is a different matter).
No 142
How about Wilson Tuckey for Leader.
He’d smash a hole through Rudd’s ego.
It didnt seem to hurt Colin, did it. But the Libs were coming off Sniff’s leadership, anybody would do better after that.
but not impartial ol’ you lol
139 fredo – because he is so into being overly dramatic about things
Not putting the Deputy’s job up for a vote is actually a clever move from Nelson (didn’t think he was capable of it). Reason being, if the Turnbull-Abbott* rumors are true, it would secure Bishop’s WA bloc.
* Maybe the deal was won an agreement to make George Pell the 1st President of Oz?
Flashback:
The Age, 22 July 2007
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/no-hunger-for-the-lodge/2007/07/21/1184560109135.html
The story, by the way, is titled “No hunger for the Lodge”.
Right through the entire Liberal party more like
Fredn at 139
It’s because of Nelson’s habit of Emoting.
“… a family in a tarago with 5 kids in the back, with a wheel chair in the back (sniff – a tear develops)… for the love of god, they have to eat processed sausages because they can no longer afford real meat! And it’s Kevin Rudd’s fault”
That kind of thing.
That can easily be done in the meeting though
fredn @ 139. Emo refers to a particularly overly emotive style of popular songs, characterised by people wearing not only their hearts on their sleeves, but all over themselves. It’s been applied to Brendon due to his overly emotive style as applied to newly discovered people, e.g. the sole aged pensioners (as opposed to the last 11 or so years) who need urgent help, and bugger the financial consequences, as the opposition don’t care to address these needless details.
No 152
Yes, it is Kevin Rudd’s fault.
From the ABC story:
The Liberal Party’s Senate leader Nick Minchin left the meeting praising Dr Nelson.
“I think he’s done an outstanding job in the nine months he has been our leader and I hope that he’s re-elected tomorrow morning,” he said.
So if Turnbull gets up that is a serious slap to Minchin.
The right move by Nelson. No point in delaying the inevitable, if he can’t survive tomorrow, with Costello now gone, and Turnbull not quite ready, he probably never would.
152 Possum – today of course it was jam sandwiches and baked beans (all Home Brand of course)
Thanks, emo as in emotive, got it.
Another thing I have been wondering, why does one Liberal party supporter use Robert Menzies as his avatar, and the other the US republican logo? Seems very; whats the right way to put this; over the top.
Possum what’s wrong with your blog? – I keep getting
Grog @ 156,
Minchin needs to be taken down a peg or two
……. He’s right up there with Cossie in the arrogance department imho
Keep getting what Grog?
Unfinished sentences”
Agreed juliem.
From The Age:
“ABC TV reported that Dr Nelson planned a “clean out” of his frontbench if he retained the leadership.”
oh excellent; the Liberal Party to a T: In defeat malice; in victory revenge.
Skynoos said the nsw right wing eg: abbott, bishop, is swinging to Turnbull. what about the chicken wing?
no possum: this is what I get on your page:
Nelson Plays Poker
September 15, 2008 – 7:33 pm, by Possum
That’s it.
Hear Hear
As a Liberal voter, I’ve never had much time for Nelson. And as Leader he’s been fairly useless – sure it’s hard times for the Libs, but boy, has he made some unforced errors!
I’ll give Nelson kudos for two things though:
1. Having the guts to give the leadership a go.
2. Dealing with the leadership speculation in a way that seems to have the interests of the Party in mind.
Still, Malcolm has to be the least bad option the Party has right now. He won’t win the next election, but he’ll be more competitive than anyone else I can think of (if he lasts that long).
“oh excellent; the Liberal Party to a T: In defeat malice; in victory revenge.”
Ah, that’s not only the Liberal Party, Grog. Or are you saying that Reba Meagher’s resignation was prompted by pure motives?
Ta Grog – there was a bit of redundant html in there. I’ve killed it so it should work now.If it doesn’t, it’s out of my hands for tonight I’m afraid.
GP @ 143. I do wish you’d actually think about what I posted back to you. Let me re-phrase. I said on balance, I thought (it’s my opinion) that on balance, the worst that the Coalition, specifically the LNP had delivered in gov’t. out-weighed the good they had done. On the good side, I would put the gun buy back, the continued support for national mental health reform (though I wish they’d put money into a very effective public sector, rather than line the pockets of half-assed general practitioners and others who will simply rort the system), the GST, which took guts, apart from that, hard to think of anything really. Bit like the W.A. thing about asking whether anyone could think of anything good the Labor gov’t. had done there. Tricky stuff for gov’t. at any level. On the down side for me, the negatives are so numerous, so divisive of our polity, that I won’t start.
Suffice to say, dismiss me and my ilk, if you wish to do so; wear the consequences.
No 167
Rudd will implode thanks to emissions trading.
Howard waited 13 years till the time was right. Can Turnbull wait that long?
It works for me Possum, it has all day(Google Chrome,Mozilla. if that helps?)
Dream on GP
No 170
The thing is Harry, Mr Howard (our greatest PM) had the courage of his convictions to take controversial policy to elections and risk his political future. He succeeded on the GST and failed on Workchoices.
The days of those politicians are over in my view.
Muskiemp,
Howard was on his second go though, when he eventually won.
Turnbull hasn’t got 13 years, he’s about 53 or 54 I think. He’ll have one good shot at it, and if he fails, he’ll go and make some more money.
Sportingbet is running odds! heh!
http://www.sportingbet.com.au/uipub/sport.aspx?l1id=34&l2id=983355
Nelson favourite
I think there is a real division between the small l liberals and the conservatives. The broad church has been destroyed and the party it can no longer appeal to both. I think Turnbull will do a great job but Minchin will make sure he doesn’t last.
No 174
The Business Council is up in arms with the policy. Wong has no idea what she’s doing. Garrett is a useless rockstar. Garnaut has done an about face given the political difficulty. And so on.
When people have to start paying massively more for energy (which has flow-on effects for food prices and so forth), I doubt they’ll see Rudd in the same light.
Speaking as a Labor hack, I think Turnbull is the most formidable Opp Leader the Libs can come up with right now, and if we really are heading for a major economic crash, he might well have better prospects in 2010 than seemed possible last November. But he also has huge vulnerabilities. He can easily be portrayed as an arrogant, pompous millionaire banker – since that’s what he is.
just saw a clip of Nelson during QT doing him baked beans thing. Julie Bishop behind him looked particularly unimpressed (as did Hockey). I’m thinking they’ve deserted him.
Grog @ 163,
From your quote – “From The Age:
“ABC TV reported that Dr Nelson planned a “clean out” of his frontbench if he retained the leadership.”” …. that implies that Julie Bishop will go no matter what [don't seriously believe for one second that Turnbull would keep her onboard] LOL ……. Oh boy this gets better and better, if that happens would serve her right for sticking her nose into the politics of the state election.
GP
The Liberals did NOT take Work”Choices” to the electorate until AFTER it was introduced. Very big difference.
It was the Work”Choices” we got when we were given no “Choice” in the matter.
No 180
Mr Rudd has an equally large ego Adam, so I don’t particularly think the voters care all that much. After all, Ms Rein commands a $200 million fortune.
Gutsy move by Nelson, While this appears a straightforward contest between Nelson and Turnbull I recall Costello saying he will do his best to stop Turnbull therefore I wouldn’t be too surprised if Costello throws his hat in the ring.
With due respect to Tanya Costello, I don’t think the average voter cares that she remarked that Peter was a man of his word.
The Interesting thing about this is for the last few weeks have been quite good for the Liberal Party with Rudd now facing serious questions over the cost of Carbon Trading and with the global economy situation looking gloomy Rudd needs to be every bit the fiscal conservative he promised to be.
Based on the Republic debate I’m not a fan of Turnbulls campaign style for he came off as not knowing what he was talking about and somewhat lazy in debates, yes I acept that modal wasn’t his perferred one and being a leader allows you to create policies as you want to them to be.
What a shame for Cossie!!! His big day’s gonna get spoiled by all the headlines over the Lib leadership. Cossie’s going to be absolutely fuming!!!
GP @ 171
So the Liberals are going to win the next election because labor does something supported by the majority of Australians ( http://news.smh.com.au/national/majority-support-carbon-trading-poll-20080909-4cdc.html), not because they present a viable alternative government.
Get real.
He can easily be portrayed as an arrogant, pompous millionaire banker – since that’s what he is. (Adam)
But that of course fails to take into account his childhood.
No 183
A difference, yes, but Howard could have had a transition to Costello and left on a high. He went right to the end. You can characterise the legislation however which way you dishonestly want, but Howard had courage.
Lord D @ 186, seeing Costello fuming makes my day/week/month/year
Adam,
I basically agree with your assessment of Turnbull. The man has attractive centrist views on most key topics, and is articulate. Coupled with that is a gigantic ego and a bullying personality which leads him into unnecessary scrapes (classic example: carrying on that ridiculous stoush with Geoff Cousins during the election, a more seasoned operator like Howard would have rendered Cousins irrelevant by ignoring him). His colleagues will only tolerate him till as far off as 2010 if they think he has a chance of winning.
Should be an interesting experiment, but I do think it will damage the Liberals less than another 6-12 months of the current leader would. Hats off to Brendan for trying, though.
Yes GP, but curiously Rudd doesn’t LOOK like a millionaire, whereas Turnbull does. And yes Rudd is arrogant, but he’s not pompous in the way Turnbull is. The voters don’t seem to mind arrogance up to a point (Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke, Keating, all very arrogant men), although Kennett showed that they have their limits, but I don’t think they like pomposity.
Adam, you have a point about Turmbull being painted as a rich man but it is mostly self made and if he went with Robb as his deputy a man who is from Reservior.
Maybe they should go with Robb from Reservoir and Billson from the Pines! how could the ALP call them toffs.
So?
Rubbish
He’s not really involved anyway
Last time I checked he was an advisor not a politician
The polls on the subject say otherwise
I see Sportingbet is offering odds on Ian Macfarlane! wtf???!!
GP @ 170. This is a gov’t. is in it’s first term, finding their feet . I realise there is a dream about that this gov’t. will be a one term wonder, and that is always a possibility, though not necessarily a probability. You do realise that the news out of the U.S. today about Lehman Bros. (spelling could be suspect) and Merrill Lynch could presage a total Big D type meltdown of possibly the global economy? You got any ideas about how any gov’t. might deal with this? Guts and conviction and ideas are going to be needed. My point is when critical events can be forseen or just happen, there is a need to operate across party lines, and we may well be approaching a nu,mber of such points, both economically and ecologically.
Yes the people support Carbon Trading me included but once the power bills start going up expect to see opposition grow to it.
Oh OK, let’s do nothing then because it will be easier.
No 187
Fredn, what do we really know about the model that Rudd proposes? Nothing. We can all have in principle support for particular policies, but unless there is corresponding detail there is no way you give your support. Once it starts hitting their hip pockets, voter opinion may well change.
I categorise carbon trading as similar to the republican debate. There was a swell of support but in the end no-one could enunciate a clear and proper model for the people to vote on.
That will be Rudd’s test. I suspect he will fail.
Grog,
Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. Maybe they’ve got the work experience boy running the show tonight.
Yeah, thats the point of an ETS: major polluters will not like it. Its meant to change behaviour.
If there;s any other policies you’re not understanding, do remember to stick your hand up.
And the reason I am suspicious of carbon trading has already been debated. I am simply of the view that Government really needs to be driving the investment in alternative energy sources BEFORE introducing emissions trading.
GP: Interest rates will fall. They’ve started too already.
Is an ETS going to be as expensive to the electorate as ten rate rises in a row. ?
Affects the hip pocket just the same.
No 201
Yeah, great. How do you suddenly change the behaviour of a coal company? Or the thousands of other companies reliant on coal-fired electricity? Please do explain. The environmental zealots are so fixated on global warming that they cannot see the forest for the trees.
Behavioural change requires alternatives. A snap ETS without alternatives simply becomes a de facto tax.
There you go again with the charge of dishonesty. This is becoming quite a habit. You’ve made the same charge over at Possum’s blog and been shown wrong.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/09/15/nelson-plays-poker/#comments
If Howard had had courage on IR he’d have taken his dream legislation (the most extreme IR laws in the western world) to an election as a major platform ticket.
In stead he took the IR Coward’s way of waiting till he was RE-elected, THEN dumping it on the heads of the very employees who trustingly voted for him.
By the way, most people consider that he was motivated to contest the 2007 election out of selfishness first and foremost (well he IS a Liberal). Courage was incidental to his grim determination to hold onto the job no matter the cost to Australia or the Liberal Party.
I hate to break it to you GP – but the BCA aren’t exactly the best barometer of opinion in voter land. The business community (apartm from Ridout) backed WorkChoices pretty strongly in the lead up to the last election campaign, but the policy was about as popular as Nelson is now!! You are on much safer ground when you point out that it is much easier for people to support a policy that they haven’t had to pay for yet (either in terms of slower potential growth or higher prices).
What you’re forgetting is that the climate will be changing at the same time…
Dario, the climate always changes. The question is whether we influence the pattern of change. I think not.
Depends how its sold, and whether support is bipartisan. As I predict the LNP to flush our futures down the dunny for short-term gain, it will be a struggle requiring strong partisan leadership.
However, it will create far more jobs than people realise; and those jobs will be sustainable careers (as opposed to jobs in dying brown industries), and in the regions as much as the cities.
And the export potential for technology is just incredible. Tertiary, and top dollar. Someone else will do it if we dont.
Between Generic championing the virtues of the LNP, ESJ who’s gone AWOL and where is Glen, where are we to get any real inside breaking noos about the leadership?
No 209
Again, it is a constant claim by environmental zealots that all these wonderful “green jobs” will be created, yet we haven’t heard specifics. Just that tens of thousands of people in the coal industries, automotive industries and other related industries will lose their jobs.
I just cannot believe that some people are so fleeting in their disregard for the magnitude of likely job losses.
GP, since you’re a CC denialist, you’re opinion on whether an ETS will “work” or not, and on whether it’s the best way to tackle CC, is a tad irrelevant, n’est ce pas? As an atheist I don’t presume to lecture Christians on points of theology.
HSO at number 210
Nope, just dishonesty, Howard idolatry, climate change denial, WorkChoices apology, all the same old Liberal rubbish that mitigated to get them thrown out on their ear at the election.
aghhh “you’re opinion” = “your opinion” – it’s getting late.
GP @ 199
Your hanging your hat on seasoned politicians screwing up the introduction of a major economic reform. I’d say that is pretty much where the Labor party was when they opposed the GST.
On the weekend Carpenter received the lesson labeled, “don’t go to elections just after an opposition leader change”. Why didn’t he look at the copy handed to Fraser, why did he want to see it again?
Looks like the Liberals want to again look at the lesson called “don’t treat the public as fools”. Why don’t the just look at the copy handed out by Howard ?
As I said; get real.
mitigated – wrong word.
for some reason I don’t think the ETS is the big issue of the night…
GP – the early targets of the ETS will be quite quite mild, and the corresponding carbon price quite low. Labor will not be dumb enough to set harsh targets and force through a large short-term adjustment, particularly with there being so much uncertainty surrounding what the large international emitters will do. The point of the ETS is to send a credible long-term price signal that facilitates capital to gradually move away from fossil-fuel energy sources toward less emission intenstive sources – whatever they may be. The final Labor policy is unlikely to tax production in the short-run. At the same time, it would be sensible for Labor to abandon the MRET (or at least expand it to include all low-emission technologies) and reconsider its opposition to nuclear energy.
Labor has more to worry about from the Greens (not going far enough in their eyes) than it does from the Libs.
You are in the very small minority, so how do you think that is going to be a problem for Rudd, given that most who share your opinion probably don’t vote for him anyway?
No 212
No, I don’t deny climate change. I am suspicious of the science surrounding anthropogenic climate change. Nevertheless, what I think about the science is academic. The reality is that it will be introduced and it will have dire consequences on our economy and standard of living.
Dario! without knowing your circumstances let me put this to you.
You get home from your $40,000 ayear job and you open your mailbox to be greeted with a power bill that is more expensive than it was a few years earlier are you going to care more for what the outside air temp is or more preeved off at the Government for creating the increase.
Regardless of Carbon Trading the currant climate isn’t go to change that much between now and 2010, yes I accept Interest Rates may well be lower than they are now and that will off-set some of the pain, Carbon Trading is to Rudd what the GST was to Howard, it will only hurt him if his other policies are seen as reckless.
No 220 should read “The reality is that an ETS will be introduced…”
Grog @ 217
Who will run the liberal party for the next six months? Does it really matter.
I also remember that you are suspicious about the science of evolution.
Enough said.
mexicanbeemer @ 221
Howard got the GST in using short term offsets, do you really think the Labor party are incapable of doing the same?
Come on, stop dreaming get real. If the Liberal party want to win they have to offer a viable alternative.
No 224
No, I am not suspicious about the science of evolution.
Rather, you are suspicious of people making up their own minds or being exposed to alternative thought.
223
No 225
Stop telling us to get real.
What we understand to be real is that an ETS will destroy our economy even though Australia’s emissions are only 1.8% of global emissions.
Dario! No one is claiming Global Warming can be stopped and anyway it can’t for the Planet is forever changing and this period of warming started some 10,000 years ago, all the Government is wanting to is minimise our impact on the Climate, In pointing that out both China and India are increaing their output so unless they are included then what we contribute is minor.
okaaayyy…
hahahahahahahahahaha
Labor getting a ‘low’ target to set was good planning. When they bring it in it will be difficult for others to run a scare campaign when most are complaining it isn’t enough. It leaves the LNP no room to select a lower figure that doesn’t seem like zero.
The Greens will moan and maybe Labor will take it a touch higher but not so high as to give the LNP any ammunition to say it cause the end of the world. Once it is in then they can tinker with it over time, especially after another election.
The only option for the LNP will be to choose zero or a higher target. If they chose higher Labor will happily go along with them. And with Turnbull it might just happen LOL.
Also, No 225, a viable alternative would be significant government spending into solar power plants and so forth to build up renewable base load power. Rather than some bureaucratic rabble that is ETS.
After all, the paragon of climate abatement, the EU, has had an ETS for sometime but has utterly failed to achieve anything on emissions. Yet, everyone is paying more. Fantastic. This is the legacy of idiotic and artificial markets.
What does that have to do with the price of fish
It’s a Minchin/Robb smokescreen/stunt for sure – not only to take the attention off the cossie book release tomorrow, but to present a united face.
1. Arrange a Tuesday ’spill’ to get the media heat off the book launch.
2. Promise Brenda that he will have the numbers tomorrow and be re-elected even though he is a complete loser, so it appears he has the support of a ‘united’ Party. (Party unity in action)
3. To give some credence to the ruse, make sure Turnbull challenges (and loses), but promise to reward him with the leadership ‘at the right time’ – so to the public and media the whole scam seems like a legit vote of confidence in Brenda.
It’s a (rather transparent) Liberal scam. Backroom deals have obviously been made.
The Libs are polling so poorly, and they want to keep Turnbull for a ’strategic’ entry closer to the election – desperate times call for desperate measures!
The numbers men in the Liberal Party are cunning but transparent.
OK quick let’s get back on topic quesiton. Predictions now:
I’m going with Turnbull.
When I say you are a CC denialist, I meant that you deny that CC is caused by, or can be reversed by, human activity.
Yes serious action against CC will have economic costs. No-one denies that. But inaction will have higher costs. Responsible politicians accept this. Irresponsible politicians just see it an an issue to score cheap opportunist points. History will judge them VERY harshly.
Fredn! I refer you to my first point, I said with things looking tight Rudd needed to be the fiscal conservative that he promised, I’m not saying he is gone far from but Rudd is entering an interesting period and if the liberal Party are to be a serious threat to Rudd they need a leader that can take them on, I’m not sure how long you have been on Poll Bludger but I openly supported Kevin Rudd in the lead up to the last Federal election both as Mexicanbeemer and before that as bmwofoz & bmwofvictoria
No 233
Australia’s total emissions are minuscule, thus it makes no sense to move before the rest of the world.
GP @ 228
Go for it, play with fairies, but I’m one of the 2% you have to attract back if the Liberals are to form government.
Your irrational arguments may be attractive to those who will vote for no one other than the Liberal party but that doesn’t get you into government now does it.
Dario! you have commented to the effect that Rudd will cope no backlash over increasing power bills.
for the voters support Carbon Trading, you found my comment about a voter being on $40,000 reacting to opening a bill as funny, in making that fiqure I wasn’t referring you and if you are laughting at people on those incomes then may I susgest you cease to be a supporter of the ALP.
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2007/s2315661.htm
Paul Kelly, ‘The Insiders’, ABC-TV, 27 July 2008
No 236
Responsible politicians don’t murder their economies when our total emissions are ineffectual.
I actually think that the move to greener energy is a good thing in terms of securing energy independence, cleaner air and more environmentally sustainable development.
Climate change is merely a secondary issue when there are far greater reasons to move to greener energy. I just think that the magnitude of investment required necessitates government involvement, not an the imposition of an artificial market that increases costs without adequate alternatives.
Did any media commentators see this comming?
The people want it, they’ve said so in big numbers time and time again. They may well change their minds when they realise they have to pay for it. But as it stands right now, they were asked, they answered and it should be respected and acted on
Grog number 243
There were headlines last week saying “leadership spill likely next Tuesday”.
How are we moving before the rest of the world?
GP, “Murder the economy” is just hype. There will be costs, but not murderous ones, and not as great as the costs of inaction. The fact that Australia only produces 1% of emissions is irrelevant. We are among the highest per capita emiters, and rich nations like Australia must take the lead if we expect big developing emiters like China and India to make the real sacrifices that cutting their emissions will entail. If CC continues, Australia suffer more than most. It’s thus very much in our interests to lead.
Why don’t you have a chat to Greg Hunt about this, GP? He knows all this stuff extremely well and I don’t think he wants to murder the economy.
mexicanbeemer @ 237
Fair enough, my central point is, these people are politicians, they will introduce a trading scheme that has general support, for the Liberals to hang their hat on the possibility of a stuff up is wishful thinking. The Liberals have to offer a viable alternative.
I actually think Turnbull is the right man, but I don’t think he will last more than 6 months, too many conservative in the party don’t want it to go where they have to go to win.
There might be some, but it won’t bring him down
I know exactly what you were inferring. May I suggest you are assuming that these people will blame Rudd, and I think you will be wrong.
It’s a bold move by Nelson, but i’d have to back Turnbull as the winner tomorrow.
I must say i like Nelson and i am not happy the public havent warmed to him, but that’s more the Liberal brand federally than anything else. Still it is a gamble and let’s not forget all those former MPs who voted for Nelson and lost their seats as well as the old Senators. Turnbull has to be favourite.
The phones must be running hot tonight.
245 yeah, but they seemed to suggest someone else would push it, not Nelson.
Dario! the big word in that last post is “MAY” for if Rudd can sell the policy in an honest and open manner and if Interest Rates come down he should be fine, the question for the Liberals is can they get their act together and in the currant climate they could do so but recent political history shows the ALP should be returned, one other point while we in here are across the issues and are mostly fixed in voting intend but out their in Voterland they go by how things appear and sometimes what appears right to those across the issues can go down like a lead balloon in voterland.
AM this morning certaily didn’t see it coming:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2364267.htm
“A leadership spill is looking increasingly unlikely this week, with senior Liberals insisting the Opposition leader be given more time to prove himself.”
Glen, if I was Turnbull, I wouldn’t ring anybody. I would wait to see who rings me, he can always withdraw… and wait
Generic Person said:
A difference, yes, but Howard could have had a transition to Costello and left on a high. He went right to the end. You can characterise the legislation however which way you dishonestly want, but Howard had courage.
I say:
Your memory is faulty, Generic Person. Even Kim Beazley had a consistently higher PM rating than Costello. That’s the real reason Howard wouldn’t hand over power (not that he could, because the Libs don’t do leader succession – it goes to a vote).
If Howard could have theoretically handed the PMship to Costello , they would have lost the 2007 election in an even bigger way. That’s why Howard stayed on – he had no choice. During his tenure, Howard was so insecure he head-kicked all potential rivals off the ladder and ensured he was only surrounded by sycophantic yes-men – the Liberals of 2008.
Get your facts straight, non-generic person!
No 250
Yes I think Turnbull will win. It is unfortunate that I disagree with his approach to reconciliation and the republic, but I will live with that for now for the sake of some stability.
SNIP: Poor quality comment deleted – The Management.
Had the Liberals handed the Pm’ship to Costello in 2006 and never come up with that stupid policy (Workchoices) they would have won in a landslide but once Rudd become leader and the Liberals stayed with Howard and they come up with Workchoices and started playing Rudd otherthan running the country they were gone.
GP your opinion mirrors my own.
Nelson and his supporters seem to be remarkably confident of victory – we’ll see what happens tomorrow! I think the ALP would be hoping Brenda stays in the top job.
I’ll argue again that too many in the Liberal Party hate Turnball, they’d support Attila The Hun instead LOL
Mexican the only thing stupid about Workchoices was the fact Unca Howie took away the previous no disadvantage test. Had he left the bloody thing the Unions couldn’t say boo to the legislation. The fact ppl were being ripped off meant Howie was breaking his pact with the battlers.
If they’d left the no disadvantage test and had somebody other than Kevin Andrews to sell it like Mal Brough or Joe Hockey from the beginning I would say Howard would probably still be in power today.
I’m hoping (against hope) they’ll hand him the leadership tomorrow!
People in the liberal Party hate Turnbull, where have I heard that said about a leadership contender! my memory is coming up with a guy called Kevin Rudd is hated by the ALP left o wait he lead them to Government.
No 260
You know nothing about the Liberal Party.
263 you’re right – but after 11 years the ALP was deseprate enough to put aside such feelings…
Spam Inbox @ 254
I think your right, whoever wins tomorrow will not be leader at the next election, Turnbull needs to wait until the likes of Minchin are totally discredited, however it looks as if he isn’t going to have the option.
Glen! I don’t think I have ever agreed with you more and without going over old ground there was the problem of how the Australian Fair Pay Commission worked.
Glen, but the whole point of WC was to disadvantage people. Business wasn’t interested in a fiddle at the edges. They wanted the full class-war model, to smash the unions once and for all and drive down wages. Othwerwise what was the point? WC with a “no disadvantage” test was a contradiction in terms. Yes Andrews was a dismal salesman, but no salesman can sell a dud product for long.
Exactly, it could of been done much better, ah well its been and gone now.
The sooner we get Turnbull in the better he’s what 53 he wont be round for more than 2 elections. After all then we can start looking toward the Greg Hunts to lead us to victory in 2016 or later.
GP you say post 260 knows nothing about the Liberal Party, was post number 260 me or Glen.
Have to say, making the announcement at 6:30pm wouldn’t have made Nelson any friends in the media – the TV news miss out, and the papers would all be quickly having to re-write their front pages. Pretty much the 7:30 report and LL were the only winners (and Bruce Bilson was the only LIberal who would agree to go on LL!)
No 260 is evan14 on my screen.
it’s times like this I miss “voter boy over the water”.
Adam in Canberra @ 268
Business didn’t particularly want work choices either. Hawk tamed the unions, it really was enough.
No 257
How existentialist of you.
Is that your best response? Total rubbish? Another one-eyed, die-hard, never to be swayed Lib voter, obviously!
I think, therefore I’m Spam.
You must have been the team leader in your school debating group.
GP! Thank-you
William, I can’t see post numbers!
I dont call giving people a job disadvantaging people, but with the no disadvantage test out it did on pay that i agree with.
Still where the heck is Labor’s IR policy????
All they’ve done is roll back.
I wonder if Nelson wins he’ll release the result in votes. I recall one leadership spill involving Gorton when no figures were released, i suppose to minimise the appearance of division within the party.
One would have to have a punt on Turnbull at those odds.
No 274
The issue with workchoices is that for all the claims about removing regulation, it actually increased regulation and red tape. And even more so once the fairness test was introduced.
I guess we were putting lip stick on a well you get my drift.
GP, I’ve deleted five of your comments today. Lift your game or you’ll be banned.
William, I heard you being interviewed about the WA Election on PM earlier tonight!
Well done, any more radio gigs in the future?
sorry but I just can’t give Brenda credit for having the guts to call the spill, more like he was told to call it himself and go looking like he had some dignity or else someone like Bill Hefferman would do it for him tomorrow and he would be totally humiliated.
After the baked beans, and phantom bill in parliment today who would blame the Fibs for taking swift action.
Well, one of the issues certainly. There were several more.
harsh but fair vera
Glen:
Turnball surely is the best bet for your side of politics, he’d give Rudd more than a few headaches. But, will the majority of the Liberal Party cop a more moderate position on an ETS/climate change/the republic/social issues?
Are you referring to astrology?
Evan, I’ve been on AM/World Today/PM about five times in recent weeks, as well as The 7:30 Report, ABC Perth morning show, Triple J’s Hack and various ABC regional programs. However, I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for me to appear again before the next WA election.
He has the potential to be a Latham or a David Cameron.
Exactly. Can’t see it myself.
I reckon Pedro’s post at number 234 is worth another look.
For those who missed it, and with William’s indulgence …
Latham or Cameron! o dear me tut tut go the Doctor’s Wives
Dario, if the Tories in the UK can be talking about social issues and be 20 odd points ahead of Gordon Brown, i’d say its possible for Liberals to alter their stringent views on some issues.
Historically the Liberal Party is focused around the leader therefore as long as Turnbull is travelling well in the polls and has the Government under some pressure then the Liberal Party will cope for who would be brave enough to takeTurnbull on, its a bit like after 1993 everyone knew Keating was struggling but no one in the ALP would dare take Keating on.
Pedro, I accidentally deleted the comment you just left: what I meant to do was snip it and tell you off for it.
You can double your money on sportingbet for Turnbull if anyone wishes to place money where their mouths are.
Further to my previous point the Liberal Party historically have done best when they have been more socially progressive why do you think seats like Kooyong have never liked Howard.
William: the ABC should dump Michael Brissenden and replace him with your good self.
Can’t you tell I’m sucking up to the moderator?
I’ll wait till tomorrow night, but I really do believe the spill has been arranged in-house, and the outcome is already known within the Liberal Party. A media stunt to diffuse the Costello problem and hopefully present Brendan Nelson as a strong leader before the spill to either Turnbull or someone else they can draft in before the next election. Perhaps they are trying to emulate the way Labor did it with Rudd, but they just haven’t had the renewal time like Labor did with Crean/Beazley/Rudd.
The Liberals are still in ‘we should still be government’ mode and don’t seem likely to regain power until two terms away, at least.
That was after a long, long time in the wilderness. This is not even a year into Opposition. It won’t happen.
New Zealand politics would be far more interesting.
It’s much more left vs right rather than let’s get to the centre to win.
Pedro! you may well be right for the timing does seem suss for the Economy is looking gloomy and its about now you want to be focusing on Swan so this does potentiall take the liberal Party off message for at least the next 48 hours just as the crap is about to hit the Walls Street fan.
No 294
No problem William, I’ll keep my comments on topic in future and avoid the tit-for-tat.
What time will the party room meeting be?
That’s the spirit, Pedro.
Nelson / Turnbull – one not supported by the people (i.e. Mr 16%) the other hated by the party. Interesting contest.
I’m sure Turnbull would’ve liked to have another 6 to 12 months but they’d be dumb to pass him over again tomorrow. If they do, it’ll be very interesting to see if Nelson sends him to the back bench.
Either way, with a couple of states going liberal – to break down the wall to wall Labor stuff people couldn’t live with – and the federal liberal party in a mess Rudd should win in 2010 and then hand over to Julia – happy days
I bet Costello is positively spewing after tonights development.
This will take away any chance he had to have the spotlight focused on his book release. His publishers are probably not too happy either.
Hey Pedro,
More of a “rip” than a “snip”.
What scenario is better for a Costello challenge down the track? Nelson or Turnbull as leader?
No 306
I have little sympathy for his book and his public backstabbing ways.
I don’t doubt his talent, but for goodness sake he really needs to get a grip and stop damaging the party through his hubristic self-indulgence.
I love this!
Nelson wins and they have Mr Small % for the foreseable future, but almost certainly another leadership challenge before the next election.
Turnbull wins and they have a yet another twerp up front with no substance and less credibility. Saw him on Q&A a couple of weeks ago up against Penny Wong. There was just no comparison. Wong looking straight at the people who had asked the questions even when she knew they didnt like her answers, being concise and to the point. Turnbull dithering, stuoid grin and always looking to the cameras. Besides he was the stupid prat who was so eager to be in Howards pocket that he scupperd the republic.
Will Cossie have a go?? Who cares.
Any way it goes its good for the ALP.
Just got an inside word that Christopher Pyne is busy on the phone. Not sure who he is supporting, however I do know that he is prepared to back whoever can get him out of the horrible Shadow Ministry for Border Protection and Justice and into somethingmore significant. He is even suggesting that if the deputy spot is open that he will have another tilt at it…. Should be a fun day tomorrow.
Neither, I would think. Costello really just wrote a 400 word leadership, suicide note.
The only way he could do that was if he resigned from parliament.
James J
I think the meeting’s at 9am.
Is it out of the question that Smirky might throw his hat in the ring tomorrow?
Dow Jones indices are off about 2.5%. After 20 minutes trading.
Something tells me that when historians write the story of this week, the WA election and the Lib leadership vote are not going to be the key items.
Costello has just climbed back into his hammock. The droning background noise in the parliamentary chamber is just like a lullaby to him. He gets such a sound sleep each day that he is in great shape for his daily jog over the roof.
Whoever it is may well be leader at the next election, Mr X and Greens saying they’ll block bills this week, Fielding doing the same last sitting, a DD could be sooner than we think.
lol, did I miss something?
Oh, and the company that is buying Merrill Lynch has said that Merrill Lynch is “more likely than not” to survive.
Now there’s a ringing endorsement of one of the world’s largest financial institutions!
Won’t a DD just make things in the senate worse?
Wont a DD get Fielding in for another 6 years?
I don’t suppose my Commonwealth Bank shares are going to look too healthy tomorrow either. I knew I should have sold them when they hit $63.
I don’t know but at least we might get rid of Fielding, and hopefully the greens could hold balance of power on their own?
I don’t think Labor would be silly enough to pass on their excess to Fielding next time. The Greens making waves in the Senate might cost them too.
Wont a DD get Fielding in for another 6 years?
http://andrewbartlett.com/?p=7117
Hi vera,
Where’s your mate ron tonight. On holiday.
Scorpio, just remember the dividend you get i sure do!
Plus what goes down must come up again espeically with the blue chips.
Cheer up old chap!
No 320
Yes, what an absolute disaster the banking sector in the United States is. How banks worth hundreds of billions can simply vanish is astounding. I am glad that the US Government has chosen not to bale out the bank at this stage – investors must learn from their obscene mistakes.
Glen, I’ve been putting my dividends back into shares so I hope you are right about a comeback other wise I may have been better taking the cash.
Probabloy should put a few dollars on Turnbull though and pick up some of my losses!
hello scorpio
Dunno where Ron is, haven’t seen him for a couple a days, he could be making waves over at the US election site.
Damn, Probably.
Dyno! I argee I’ve just been looking at the Wall Street Journal and reading that Leyman Brothers is filing chaptor 11 and Merrill Lynch have been sold to the Bank of America, this is a watershed moment in the Sub-primal crisis and the alternative government is having a leadership ballot! speaks volums about where the Liberal Party are at.
Hell vera, he’s not shipwrecked on the island is he?
I think the rule is now – don’t go to an election with when the Opposition have just got themselves a new leader. Putting Turnbull in may get them a bounce in the polls making it less likely Rudd would go looking for a DD and, thus allow the LNP to continue to make trouble in the Senate.
mexicanbeemer, Costello said on the weekend that there was no problems with the economy etc last year. It’s only since Rudd took over that things have slipped so we know who to blame don’t we?
scorpio remember it’s only a paper loss, and with a DRP (i also have this), you increase your wealth overtime and your portfolio.
I suspect it will be close regardless, but Turnbull should have the edge.
Never been to that Island Scorpio, but from what I’ve heard it sounds like a scary place so Ron could be in big trouble if he’s stranded there. Better call out the Coast Guard!
All those hyping the falls on Wall St need to calm down.
The market is may have fallen 300-odd points, but that’s taken it to about 1% lower than it was a week ago, to levels not seen since July 2008. Even a small bounce later today or tomorrow means the market will be at historic three day lows. Horrors!!
I’m aware that the funtermentals of the Australian Government are sound and I don’t expect us to have a recession within this financial year.
The thing is the American Economy is in a very ill state and since we don’t live in a bubble there will be come impact.
On a side note I was thinking about the NAB’s failed homeside business a few years ago and I was thinking that might turn out to be the best failed business in Australias banking history for it lead to the NAB reducing its involment in the American Mortgage market.
I don’t see anyone hyping the situation on Wall Street
Glen, it was still depressing to see many thousands wiped off in little more than a fortnight though.
A bit like my rollover. I watched it loose 8 grand a year for three years and they still had the hide to charge me over $800 per year management fee. I think I have done about 5 or 6 grand this year now too.
It is slightly depressing. If the whole system collapses then we are all in trouble. I hope the “Future Fund” doesn’t disappear too. Won’t do Costello & Howard’s legacy much good.
OMG mexicanbeemer – one US bank goes into chapter 11 and oppositon parties all over the world need to stop all normal activities and await, presumably with bated breath, for any subsequent events?
Grow up.
There is one positive about the falling market, my former employer whom I wrote about here last year is having its bottom line hammered everytime the market falls so at least that is good
{Better call out the Coast Guard!}
Vera, whatever happened to that? I thought that was one of Beasley’s policies that Rudd kept. A $500m Coastguard to be established.
As for the Island, I haven’t been there either. The early reports back from it were enough to scare me off from wanting to visit.
Gotta love Tuckey:
LATELINE REPORTER: Who’s got your vote?
TUCKEY: Well, that’s my business. What’s your next question?
LOL
scorpio dont worry if it makes you feel better i had money in Colonial First State for about 6 years with 0 return actually i think i lost money.
How about a new vote winner for either side of politics. Stopping the Banks from charging us more to make up for their own losses?
No 345
I think Rudd has forgotten about it amidst all the bull and bluster coming out of his office these days.
johnpkramer,
Agree it’s not really the market falls that are the issue – they’re just the symptom.
Here’s the issue:
- at the start of this year there were five major investment banks. Now there are two (in effect, Merrill Lynch having been swallowed up as well as Bear Stearns and Lehman disappearing)
- the world’s largest (or second largest, depending how you measure it) insurance company, AIG, announced on the weekend that it needs US$40bn as a “bridging loan”
- the Chinese are now cutting interest rates which is the surest sign they are worried about recession
- etc.
What is really scary is we have no idea when all this bad news is going to end.
No 347
It’s pretty simple Glen, change banks if you believe the service at your current institution has been inadequate.
I’m not sure I understand the alleged connection between the US financial crisis and the Liberal leadership ballot.
Do you really think that if it were not for the leadership instability then the Liberals would be able to attack the Government regarding the sub-prime crisis? Do you really think the members of the press gallery, or the public, are stupid enough to entertain arguments that blame the Australian Government for the fate of Merrill Lynch?
Andrew! The Global Economy has a problem that is undermining it and it is the U.S and to a lesser exstinct the European
Housing markets are falling this has left a sea of dept.
You say that I should grow up for suggesting the Liberal Party should be focusing its attention onto Wayne Swan to ensure that the Australain Economy remains healthy, rather than focus on a leadership ballot brought on by the leader.
The voters out there want to hear their politicians speak about Economic security and how Australia will build on the currant boom not who is the most popular within the Liberal Party room.
Leyman Brothers is one of the larges financial sector companies in the world therefore its important to the global ecomony.
That reporter was lucky. I think Tuckey was still carrying his “ironbar” looking to bash the 3 traitorous Libs undermining Nelson.
Nick Xenophon is to oppose the Medicare Levy bill:
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/09/15/2365365.htm
No 351
Blaming Rudd for the fate of US Banks would certainly be innovative. LOL
No355,
He gets blamed for pretty well everything else. So why not?
There is no connection what so ever between the Liberal Party leadership ballot and the U.S Economic situation and there is no connection between the Rudd Government and the U.S crisis but has the share market declindes and the job market retracts people will want to know how the Government is reacting and what if anything the Liberal Party as the alternative Government have to say about the situation.
Politics is about preception and at the moment the Liberal Party seems more interested with itsself rather an than being an alternative Government.
I’m off to bed. I want to be fresh in the morning to watch the blood sports.
Sure hope ron’s ok over on the island though?
MB @ 357
Ever considered that perhaps getting a new leader is the first thing the Libs need to do before they can even start to be seen as an alternative government?
If not for the spill, what would you have the Nelson do tomorrow, given the Lehman Bros/Merryl/AIG news?
Bilson argued on Sky News with respect to private members bill.
The argument essentially was that the Budget papers had already been appropriated and hence any Coalition bill would merely amend the calculation of the pension, not appropriating new money. Thus, it is constitutional in the view of the Liberal Party.
JP! You have a point about moving to Turnbull may be the best thing to do!
You ask what would I do as Liberal leader, tomorrow every question in question time would be directed at Wayne Swan, I would want him to tell the parliament about what is the advice he has received from the banking sector, I would want to know what is he doing to ensure the Australian Economy is seen as healthy aboard and I would be wanting to know what is the Governments approach to any financial company that finds itselve in trouble, a Treasurer on his game will have no problem handling these questuions also has I wrote its about preception as an alternative Government looking like its ready to Govern
And talking about leaders – those who find it interesting listening to Keating’s take on things can do so here at this address of 12th to the Melbourne Writers Festival, he ponders on everything from Australia’s place in Asia, nuclear weaponry and the future of Kevin Rudd’s Labor government.
rtmp://cp44823.edgefcs.net/ondemand/flash/fora/streams/paulkeating.flv
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2362757.htm
No 362
Paul Keating need not have any more of our attention. His insufferable arrogance reminds me of Germaine Greer.
He praises GH Bush and gets down on Clinton’s two terms and GW Bush.
Keating may well have been arrogant. He may well be bitter also.
Keating, however, was not pure evil.
Having watched Four Corners last night (Baxter and Woomera Detention Centres) I am more convinced than ever that Howard was a small man suffering small man’s syndrome. What a disgraceful, inhumane, dishonest little grub of a man he is. Phil Ruddock, along with the aforementioned little grub, should face the music. Rudd, unfortunately, hasn’t got the clackers to initiate a Royal Commission (a firing squad is more apt IMHO).
360 Geriatric Person
Fortunately we do not depend on the Liberal Party’s idea of what is constitutional and what is not – there is a high court for that. And I for one would enjoy the entertainment value of the Opposition rabble (regardless of who is leading them) going down in a screaming heap because even after 12 years in Government they still don’t get how the place works.
Keating did mention the hundreds drowned and Howard in that presentation.
If Turnbull had won the leadership, after the election, I suspect he would be in a similar position to Brenda now.
All reports seem to be saying it will be close – exactly what the Liberals don’t need. The big problem is that the Libs are split and no amount of waffle will cure this.
Just put $20 on talcum Allbull. The Fibs cannot keep going with Brenda.
Ideal scenario for this biased Labor bloke: Nelson wins in a close one, Turnball is sacked from shadow cabinet and goes to the back bench, Nelson promotes some climate change sceptics/right wingers = a recipe for further Liberal Party infighting!
BRING IT ON!
Why would anyone in their right mind want to lead these self obsessed group of self interested members of mens clubs.
Poor old Malcolm, hes going to get flogged in the markets and he can’t win the day here. The problem all the Liberal contenders have at the moment is that they are still tainted with the stain of the previous government.
Has anyone had the heart to tell Brendan what a complete hypocrit he looks over this pension thing. Everyone I talk to says the same thing. “They were in for 12 years and they blocked the push before the last election and now they get their staffers to by plain label baked beans and carry on like cheap pork chops. Really”.
No 365
That’s right, let’s just open up our borders for the whole world and forget about having standards for the type of people we want coming into this country….you lefties are simply contemptible.
We will decide who comes into this country and the circumstances in which they come!
“Federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland has welcomed the convictions of six men who were found guilty of forming a Melbourne-based terrorist cell.
Mr McClelland described the case, in which the jury found Abdul Nacer Benbrika guilty of leading a group of men to foster or prepare for a terrorist attack, as lengthy and complicated.
He has praised the cooperation of various agencies to secure the convictions.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 … 365141.htm
Can you imagine what hysterics the Howard Government would have performed with these convictions. Minister after Minister would have been lining up to ramp up the fear monitor. Endless interviews would have been given squeezing every last drop out of this issue.
Isn’t it a joy not to have to endure those days any more.
What a delight it is.
Online
Report |
Edit |
Quote
#2
Let’s try that link again.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/15/2365141.htm
It never ceases to amaze that the right wingers have this whole groups of attitudes, Climate change deniers, racists, anti-immigration, anti-reconcilliation, anti our natural environment, usually carrying some strange delusional belief system, etc etc etc.
GP
Just what types of people were you refering to , white, christian, capitalists?
#373 ‘Attitude’ traverses all shades of the political spectrum.
Malcolm has won according to Skynews
News Radio reporting Nelson rolled.
Double Ouch! The Lehman Brothers bankruptcy filing is the largest in history. $613 BILLION! And it looks like Japanese and Chinese banks are the main ones left holding the can. How robust are those markets to withstand that kind of loss? The Chinese exposure doesn’t look good for Australia, unless they choose to invest here instead of the US. We must have some economists here to tell us how Oz will be affected. Or the infallible William could just pronounce…
Lehman Lists Debts Of $613 Billion In Chapter 11 Filing Monday
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200809150751DOWJONESDJONLINE000296_FORTUNE5.htm
Will Malcolm do a cleanout of the front bench ?
You’re right there David, you should check out the face book of the Pineapple Party Member for Hinchinbrook, Andrew Cripps, his arrogance extends to calling himself ‘the Prime Minister for Hinchinbrook’. Turnbull at least is voted in to contest the job. Cripps is self appointed.
Gee it’s quick. Malcolm now is described as a “fresh air”. RIP Cossie, EmoMan.
Malcolm has won it.
Turnball Ha Ha Ha Ha
News Radio reports SMS messages from MPs saying Turnbull has won.
What about spineless? I thought he wanted to stop Turnbull.
45-41 change nothing
45-41 Ooops
Turnbull 45-41…..still close..
That’s some nice work, Brendan.
I guess spineless may now wait another 23 months and walk into the position (drafted) just before the next election. Not withstanding a DD.
I guess getting angry at the party room doesn’r pay off.
The media will now want to talk to Turnbull, there goes “the book”. Straight to the remainder stand.
Another monarchist bites the dust.
Well – 45-41 was probably the closest Nelson was going to get in a leadership challenge versus Turnbull.
If he had waited another few weeks, the margin would have blown out considerably…
Has anyone heard about the Deputy position? For that matter, Turnbull will have to move quicksmart to get front bench positions filled before QT at 2pm …. Not moving the TV channel from Sky today
……
Bishop retained deputy unopposed.
Ok. SKY has just answered that question .l… Bishop unopposed as the Deputy ..
I love it: Nelson’s suicide mission! I guess acting like the big man last night didn’t work out for Brenda LOL
Turnball really needed to win by far more than 4 votes! It’s still a divided Liberal Party room, and the far right won’t like Turnball presumably taking the Libs back towards the centre. I’d guess it’ll be far easier for Rudd now to get an ETS through parliament, and a few other budget measures? But, Turnball will be a more formidable opponent than Nelson – Labor better not be complacent!
Hear! Hear!
The Government should censure the Opposition Leader on the grounds that he is jet lagged and sun burnt.
So – it’s the “Ken and Barbie” team for the Libs…
#370
“That’s right, let’s just open up our borders for the whole world …”
Just like your beloved McCain and his amnesty program.
“We will decide who comes into this country and the circumstances in which they come!”
You’ll also indefinitely lock up children behind razor wire in the middle of the desert. You conservatives are really contemptible.
Yes, will anyone be vaguely interested in Smirky’s Press Club address this afternoon?
For those who are interested, ABC is streaming live at the moment
Some crickets will be attending.
“Yes, will anyone be vaguely interested in Smirky’s Press Club address this afternoon?”
Milne might get an exclusive scoop there this afternoon.
Told youse so.
Ya gotta hand it to Nelson, though: he had the guts to put his cojones on the line, while Costello, smirking in the background was still asking people, “What are these cojone things I’m not supposed to have?”
The Academy Award for “Smarmiest Politician In A Performance As A Back-Stabber” goes to Nick “As you are aware, we were always behind Brendan” Minchin.
Look out Brendan, they’re right behind you.
Turnbull gets the guernsey without too much public blood on his hands (it wasn’t his idea to call the spill) and Costello, forgotten, sails off to the islands to do a llittle moral and spinal regeneration courtesy of World Vision with Brother Tim.
ShowsOn,
“The Government should censure the Opposition Leader on the grounds that he is jet lagged and sun burnt.”
ROTFL …….. thanks for that
Hey Max, do you have a link? I can’t find it. Thanks.
So it’s Turnbull 45 to Nelson 41 this time, but was Nelson to 45 to Turnbull 42 previously.
Did someone miss the vote? And who changed their mind?
scorpio: http://abc.net.au/streaming/abc-video2.asx
But the line died, it seems
Scorpio, press conference begins shortly.
abc.net.au/news
OK – Game on! So who is going to be dumped from the front bench and who might come on?
Press conference delayed until 10:30
Shadow Treasurer? Any prognostications?
One thing is for sure ruawake, none of the Queeensland Pineapple Party members are fit to be Shadow Treasurer. Better look to the other states.
Unfortunate for Nelso, but this was inevitable.
About 10 months too late GP.
Well, it’s interesting that Turnbull has been the least vocal about the leadership woes of the party; the most disciplined of them all.
Here’s the blow-by-blow. Sadly, Chris Pyne seems to be especially happy. He might even get a shadow ministry which has an equivalent Govenment Ministry instead of “Justice” which left him without an opponent.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24353382-5013871,00.html
stream is up. same link as prev posted
Gee that ex Costello staffer on sky is full of it.
Pure slime. Reminds me why I have such a low opinion of the fibs.
Perhaps Cossie for treasury? I know Turnbull and Cossie hate each other but IMHO Turnbull as leader with Cossie as shadow Treasurer is their best bet at re-election. Lots of voters still think highly of Cossie as an economic manager,
Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce said Peter Costello would have been an extremely good choice for the Liberals, considering Australia was facing tough economic circumstances.
“We have to make sure the best team is on the frontbench,” he told reporters.
Turnbull is performing admirably at the conference.
Turnbull is worse than Brenda, his press conference is woefull.
Brenda off to the back bence.
Turnbull is simply stunning. He has my full support.
At least the Liberal Party has some good orators. Rudd would be reading off briefings.
SNIP: Poor quality comment deleted – The Management.
Ditto for you BB.
GP
Turnbull just let Labor of the hook, Bishop has been banging on about consumer confidence, Talcum admits there has been a GLOBAL fall in confidence.
End of that line of attack.
allbull might appeal to the party faithful, but whether the
broader community will take to him remains to be seen.
No way will brenda let it go. He may get behind allbull, but it
will only be to stab him in the back.
Abbott still sees himself as a chance as well.
Will the leadership change be in time to be covered in the next Newspoll? If it is, I’m betting on a swing to the Libs.
That was Dennis Shanahan clapping at the end.
Turnbull unfortunately waffles, says too much about nothing and, comes over as pompous. He usually trys to make it seem he knows a lot about something when it is apparent he doesn’t and thus starts talking in pointless circles. He will need to tighten up his style. Though he will at least not be back flipping every two minutes (maybe).
OK first question to Turnbull. ‘Can you unequivocally state that Workchoices type IR in any form has been totally discarded by your party.’
Yeah, like John Howard.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
No 430
Turnbull was pretty succinct in that press conference. The only person that can be accused of indecisive waffling is Mr Krudd himself.
Intriguing – Alex Hawke (conservative firebrand MP for Mitchell) switched from Nelson to Turnbull in the vote. So did Abbott.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24353392-421,00.html
I smell a shadow ministerial deal in the works…
the Libs are believing their own rhetoric re a 1 term ALP government, they just can’t believe the people voted them out because of their flawed policies, and bad economic management.
No 431
The 1995 (IIRC) censure motion against Keating was one of the finest parliamentary performances I have ever had the pleasure of viewing. Howard was stunning.
Turnbull claiming he doesn’t come from a background of privilege was a bit over the top. Which slum did he actually grow up in?
All new leaders give good performances at their first press conference – it’s the testosterone talking. But it’s a long race to November 2010. Testosterone doesn’t do much for stamina.
No 433
They were not voted out based on economic management Muskiemp.
Indeed, Rudd is swimming in so much money thanks to the Liberal National Coalition.
Brendan Nelson chooses the back bench. Could we be looking at another by-election soon?
“Howard was stunning.”
GP, I have always been stunned by the propensity of Howard to mislead the nation myself.
No 435
The point is that he isn’t some silver-spoon toff that you lefties like to think that he is. His success is self-made. But I guess communists don’t like individual success.
I just called the QT ticket number and have put my name on the list for this afternoon as well
… so I will be there today and Thursday too 
…….
# 430 Thomas Paine,
Why continue to ask questions re IR. Remember the GST was pronounced dead and never ever, back in 1995 by Howard himself.
That is what the ALP must continue to remind the Australian public that we can never ever believe the Coalition.
# 437
10 Interest rises in a row.
SNIP: Abusive comment deleted – The Management.
Muskiemp,
So – the GST is now being “rolled back” by the ALP government as the Beezer promised with (presumably) Rudd’s full support. Oops – the GST was the only tax the Rudd has put out of bounds for the tax review. Oh well, back to the ol’ drawing board.
That speech from Turnbull was full of contradictions. One minute he’s criticising Rudd / Swan for taliking down the economy, next thing he’s telling us we’re doomed. Then he says Rudd is a one man band but criticises him for widely getting opinions of other people and for having a green paper for the ETS. Trurnbull is all over the place.
GP You obviously have a good intellect and at times argue a very good case for your side of politics. But referring to Labor supporters as communists just demeans you. .
GP – back to your name calling, dummy spitting best I see. How about just debating the points and leaving the childish rubbish for your friends.
For God’s sake GP @ 444, can’t you disagree with anyone without abusing them? The independence of the Reserve Bank doesn’t stop either side blaming it on the other.
440 “His success is self-made.”
And everybody else’s failure is because of the Rudd Government. Good one GP.
GP, suffice it to say you are all blather
That didn’t take long. Rudd says Turnbull should try and get the Libs behind him to support a republic. God that’s mean!
Turnbull should push for republic – Rudd
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24353705-5005962,00.html
The republic issue will be a very good wedge.
Roxanna – abuse is the liberal way.
They always have been bully’s. Old habit are hard to change.
Gary
The republic issue is almost such a horrible wedge on the Libs that the voters might even see it as Rudd exploiting it knowing it would divide the Libs. It really was pretty nasty of Rudd to call for Turnbull to work with him on a republic timetable five minutes after he was elected.
#445 Andrew,
I was not debating the GST I was just pointing out the dishonesty of Howard. Just to remind you that in the GST election of 1998, although winning the election he did not win the popular vote.
As for the GST that to was dishonest by having it at 10%. Howard never had the courage to totally reform the Tax system.
that to should be – that too.
Generic Person #444
More conservative abuse.
The Liberals apparently weren’t aware of that when they made promises regarding interest rates. “Record lows”, “30-year lows”. And they delivered what? Second highest interest rates in the developed world, behind New Zealand. The highest level of interest rate stress in the world.
Daily Telegraph, 31 December 2006
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,,20991848-5001031,00.html
Nelson and his right wing mates will be whiteanting Turnball, just watch and wait for the fireworks!
Diogenes – I really don’t see how it is nasty given Malcolm’s VERY strong position on a republic. To me many will think it a logical move rather than a tactic. Remember we’re not talking about people who follow politics closely here.
Besides, Diogenes, when Howard applied the “Wedge” those who do follow politics closely thought it was a masterstroke. Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
No 458
They were at record lows.
Your dishonest campaign against the economic management of the Liberals is as obscene as it absurd.
evan14 – Nelson didn’t go to the back bench for nothing. This is a determined man believing he will lead the Libs to the next election.
Question time should be a cracker. Labor have had months tyo prepare for a transition to Turnbull and he will find the heat in the kitchen pretty hot for a while.
If Turnbull thinks he will have an easy time of jousting with Rudd, he will be sadly mistaken. Why did Costello refuse the opportunity to take over as Liberal Leader? Because Rudd & Gillard would have made mince meat of him and shown him up for the fraud that he was and is.
Good luck with the book launch Tip. Looking forward to then questions from the floor at the Press club this afternoon.
There are going to be some uncomfortable conservatives out there, assuming most monarchists / anti-Republicans are coalition supporters.
steve says:-
” Turnbull claiming he doesn’t come from a background of privilege was a bit over the top. Which slum did he actually grow up in?”
According to Lucy in a letter sent out in the closing days of the election in 07,
“slumming it in rented accommodation in Double Bay”
That’s the well known slum between Darling Point and Point Piper.
SNIP: Poor quality comment deleted – The Management.
tyo, “to”. then, “the”.
Must check before posting. Must check before posting. Must check before posting.
No GP, you don’t get away with that. The advvertising said they would KEEP THEM at RECORD LOWS. Big difference. Now who is being dishonest?
If Turnbull speaks like he did at his press conference, Rudd and Gillard will be mince meat. QT just got that much more exciting.
All Hail Our One and Only leader Malcolm Turnbull!
Al least he was until 9.00 am this morning, Gary.
If he waffles like that in parliament Turnbull will be mince meat Glen.
Our two resident conservatives are excited?
I’m sniggering to myself!
Can you really imagine Malcolm Turnball winning over battlers in Western Sydney?
LMAO
Gary
I’m sure you’re right but it was so obvious it made me cringe. It is GOLD though.
What is Turnbull’s answer going to be in question time when Rudd asks him “Given your leadership of the Republican cause, will you work out a bipartisan time-table with me for a Republic?” If Turnbull equivocates, Rudd will just say “Aren’t you the leader of your Party? Don’t they agree with you.”
Diogenes,
“That didn’t take long. Rudd says Turnbull should try and get the Libs behind him to support a republic. God that’s mean!
Turnbull should push for republic – Rudd
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24353705-5005962,00.html”
GOOD on Rudd for making this his first policy area to get into Turnbull about. I hope Turnbull remains true to his thoughts on this. Shows you that Rudd is indeed serious on the Republic and was just looking for the right time to introduce the debate LOL …….
Rates did nothing but rise after the Liberals promised to keep them at “record lows” / “30-year lows”.
http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/econchart-interest.png
The “dishonesty” claim you carelessly bandy about applies to the Liberals:
1) promising they could control interest rates, then
2) watching them rise relentlessly, and
3) now abusively and gratuitously snarling (444) that the Reserve is independent of party / government influence.
No 466
They were at record lows due to the subprimes, look what happened to those.
The Banks were able to borrow at a lower rate than those set by the RBA. See what happened after the crash of those subprimes, the banks were forced to raise the interest rates independent of the RBA as they were having to pay higher interest, in reference to what they were before the crash.
The Republic wedge put on Turnbull by Rudd, was a master stroke.
Gary how could he waffle more than Kevin Rudd and Co???
HAHAHHAHAHAHA a CENSURE MOTION!?
Go read the Redfern speech mate.
Could be interesting in 18 months time or so.
Turnbull will spend a lot of political capital watching his back too.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24353382-5013871,00.html
The reason I want Turnbull to pressed on Workchoices as there are some still there who wish to bring something like it back in. ie Minchin, Bishop and Nelson made similar noises.
They should be made to categorically rule it out. Turnbull probably would want to but he would know that there are those there adamant it shouldn’t be.
master stroke?? what are you talking about, it doesnt take a genius to pull that one out?
How predictable and cowardly by Rudd.
Rudd needs to focus on his ETS rather than a Republic!
Rudd is great; he may not know how to speak, but he sure knows how to play politics.
ShowsOn, I am leaving for Parliament House in about 30 minutes
…. should be one hell of a ride today 
…….
They ought not have disclosed the vote, being close it should have been kept under wraps.
Glen, I think they would have had to disclose the vote, either of their own accord or in response to media questioning. It’s one of the first questions the media will ask; they can hardly refuse to answer straightly.
Glen
It was not genius but it’s very effective. What is Turnbull going to do about it? Rudd is playing the card very early, perhaps trying to spoil Turnbull’s honetmoon .
Lucky you. I’ll have to do with recording the replay.
What happened to the new Good Manners Pollbludger?
There’s no way the Liberals can stay unified behind Turnbull. He is like Hewson, Greiner, Brogden. The monarchists and religious nut jobs won’t be able to handle his social liberalism, and will spend all their time undermining him.
That’s what Rudd is playing up to.
30 Minutes ’till Hammock drops a bucket on Turnbull via his book.
What a feast today.
Midday Report.
QT
7:00pm News
7:30 Report and
Lateline to boot
ShowsOn,
“There’s no way the Liberals can stay unified behind Turnbull. He is like Hewson, Greiner, Brogden. The monarchists and religious nut jobs won’t be able to handle his social liberalism, and will spend all their time undermining him. That’s what Rudd is playing up to.”
Same old same old with the Libs
…….
Re: QT and the Republic – It will be interesting to see if Turnbull doesn’t blink, but rather takes Rudd up on his challenge for a timetable for a Republic, he could take the wind out of Rudd with that and get himself plenty big O2. The right in the LIBs already can’t stand him, so why would he be worried about them in this honeymoon stage?
How many people with a poor family get to spend their primary school days at Sydney Grammar prep?
Talcum is a fraud.
Adam @ 495
[What happened to the new Good Manners Pollbludger?] Good question.
Ruawake, Julia is speaking tomorrow (prescheduled), topic of “Forward with Fairness”. ACT leaders debate with all 4 present (leaders and deputies) on Thursday. This week will be a good one at the NPC. As I understand it, Sky is carrying the NPC show today by Cossie live; imagine that they will carry Wednesday and Thursday speakers live too
495 What happened to the new Good Manners Pollbludger?
There’s some very twitchy and nervous tories around here today. I think they thought this was going to be a decisive vote and almost half of the Liberal Party have rejected Turnbull already.
Glen, just those comments by you show how much of a masterstroke it was.
I’m sure the Liberals will love fighting for the Republic once the new Leader explains it in terms they can understand. We don’t want this crippling disunity and disloyalty to the leader to drag on longer than necessary now do we?
In all fairness Adam most of us here are dispalying very good manners IMHO. There are just one or two slow learners but they have improved over time.
We may be DISPLAYING (I think I’ve got that right this time) good manners but typing is proving a problem on my part.
Peter Costello now at the NPC.
After a retrospective review, I’ve deleted one comment by Bushfire Bill and two by Generic Person. The next comment of GP’s that gets deleted will be his last at this site.
As I have said, we already have an Australian Head of State. The whole republican debate is a waste of time, money and effort.
Wonder if Labor will start a reform school for monarchists would are finding it difficult to accept the concept of the Republic of Australia that the Liberals effectively voted for this morning.
GP your gravitar looks a lot like the symbol of the ‘Republican Party’ to me. Tell me that you aren’t a closet Republican.
I might be wrong on this but if my memory serves me well, the OO was very pro-Republic during the referendum, as were the media in general. That’s going to make it harder for Turnbull to squirm out from the wedge. Any chance he’ll support it?
Turnbull needs to explain his position on the Republic in terms of where it should sit on the country’s list of priorities right at the moment, and ask Rudd why he’s focusing on something which will effectively do nothing to better the position of anyone except the President and the Vice President when the entire world’s going into economic meltdown. Labor already has a monopoly on the symbolism, the Libs need to pull back ground on pragmatic policy.
512: It’d be a re-education revolution.
“It’d be a re-education revolution.”
Justin, it will have to be if people claiming to be Liberals and monarchists have got the hide to use the symbol of one of the great republican party logos while arguing against a republic.
They’re part of the same conspiracy as ALP members backing that self-proclaimed liberal, Barack Obama.
I’m not a member of any political Party, Justin, so does that mean I can make up my own mind?
Shanahan asks a question at Cozzie’s press conference…
“Why didn’t you issue a challenge to Howard? Hawke challenged Hayden, Keating-Hawke, Howard-Downer, Beazley Crean, Rudd Beazley, Turnbull-Nelson… Do you regret not challenging Howard and thereby giving up forever having the chance to be PM?”
“Cozzie (after quibbling about who challanged who)… Howard losing his seat was a disappointment.”
That’s it… evaded the question.
New thread.