Call it as you see it here. The purpose of this thread is to quarantine the kind of partisan name-calling that is the hallmark of live debate discussion from the main thread, so I won’t quite be holding commenters up to this site’s normal high standards. The other thread remains open for those wishing to discuss the presidential race more broadly.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Palin versus Biden debate thread
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292 Comments
I’m EXCITED!
GO William, thanks for getting into the spirit
…….
ShowsOn – you’re tragic
Totally.
“Can I call you Joe” – no lady, call me Bruce!
Coin toss for order of things ……. first question goes to biden … the WORM is tied into a group of uncommited Ohio voters who are broken down into men and women .. it is NOT tied into the audience in the hall …
The worm tonight is uncommitted Ohio voters broken down into men and women
Men reckon Biden is yawn inducing, women think he’s spunky
Women like “ne benefit for CEO’s” in the bailout, men not so much. Women like Biden about 3 to one compared to men
Biden above the line with the worm on his first answer although the men lagged behind the women in getting there ……
Palin’s talking to the lens! Good signs early.
Surprise – women are reacting positively to Palin about two to one over men. About 30% positive
The Canadian debate should also be interesting, people should look it up on YouTube after Palin/Biden is done. Pity they’re both on at the same time.
She mentions McCain suspending his campaign to help get the bailout passed, the worm tanked when she said that
Still, women react better to Biden than men generally running an average of 15-20% positive regardless of what he says compared to men being flat to 5% positive
“Team of Mavericks”, down goes the worm.
“Maverick from the Senate” – the worm tanks.
Ouch
Yeah, someone new, a guy who has been in the senate 26 years.
Women and Men love this answer – 50% positive for women, 25-50 for men
The worm has left the buidling upward!
Who’s talking, Possum?
Can you guys mention the person and actual answer you are describing when you say how the worm is performing? Those of us not watching can’t tell who you are talking about!
“Biden – marginally positive, women again favour him over men by two to one”
Men dont like regulating health, women love it. I dont think the men understood the answer.
WOmen loved the petrol spiel
Palin was then swing when you asked
She’s doing okay imo.
Will do Dario
Cheers poss
Palin: We need tax relief – Obama is a tax lifter… worm hangs around 20% positive
Biden:Defends tax stance, calls Palin incorrect – worm stays at 20% positive, before dropping down to +10% for both women and men
They’ll be bread and butter questions for the first half of the debate I would think
Palin: Talks about her record on taxes – worm doesnt move, no one seems to give a shit.
Biden defends raising taxes on high income earners: “called fairness” women lift to 25-30% positive, men hang around +10%
Biden mentions middle class tax break – improvces by 5% to 20-30% solid with women leading.
The Fairfax stream says that Palin said Obama wants to raise taxes.
How did the worm react then?
Palin: “Its redistribution of wealth” “Millions of people earn 250K a year” – both men and women go +15%
It went up for Palin to about 15% positve SwingLowe
Palin: describes the McCain healthcare plan – worm goes 0-10% positive, with men liking it and women being unmoved
Biden: Women go +25% on the Obama tax plan, men stay basically zero.
Biden goes into detailed criticism of the McCain health plan, work stays positive at 5-10% positive
AGain, women love Biden and healthcare at +25%, men dont move off zero.
Bizzarre
Biden answering a question on tax plans and started to say the Adminstration and caught himself after one syllable and said McCain. ….. subconciously trying to alert the audience that McCain will be a continuation of the Bush adminstration?
Wow! I didn’t think of that, but yeah it is possible he did it deliberately.
Traditionally men have a lot more difficulty getting up the motivation going to see a doctor (something about not wanting to face mortality) so I’m not surprised by those movements
Possum,
It isn’t bizzare if you have lived in or near Ohio (I was 30 minutes north of the border for 43 years
) …….. redneck “Joe six pack voters” as Palin calls them; there are a lot of them in Ohio 
Palin does do political speak, she said “mode of operation” instead of just saying “method”.
Palin: “I support good things, and oppose bad things”.
Men went heavily negative against Palin then for no real reason. More weirdness
20 minutes in: Who’s doing better in your opinion, Possum?
ShowsOn @ 39,
Biden might make the odd gaffe here or there over the years, but he is NO dummy
….. I’m sure he did that deliberately and even if it was a subconcious mistake, it was a h*** of a smart thing to do 
……
Biden marginally in my opinion. Palin is competent, but too vague.
“corruption and greed on wall street” says Plin – women believe her and go ppositive, men dont and go negative!
I agree, potentially more effective than explicitly saying “McCain will be Bush’s third term”.
Swing – Biden has a slightly higher positive reaction across all answers so far I think, but not by much
Palin calls herself a “Mainstreeter” …….. ?? Worm didn’t like it ….
So far though it sounds as though all the questions have been stock standard. Nothing to catch anyone out really.
Palin answers in rebuttal to Biden about energy plans … worm tanks for both men and women ……
The more serious the answer that Biden gives, the more women like it. At the moment when talking about bankruptcy reform, women were plus 15-20% and men were minus 10%.
Palin talks about energy and plummets to minus 20% before slowly moving back to zero, then slightly positive
Questions now on climate change ….. Palin first …
Men might be feeling protective of Palin – dont want her to embarassed.
Palins favourability is highly variable – she get’s both higher and lower scores than Biden whereas Joe scores consistently 15% positive with women and 5% positive with men and never goes below 5-10% negative
Palin says that climate change is real [doesn't that contradict her previous positions?] …. worm rolling along mild positive ……
Joe has been around a lot longer and is probably considered ’steady’ by most, so they may just turn the dial to a position and sit there no matter what they hear
This assessment from an article in the London Review of Books is being borne out with respect to Palin. She’ll come out of this very well if things continue as they are, given the recent heavy duty expectations management.
Seems like Biden isn’t going for a knock-out punch but rather is focusing on remaining gaffe-free.
Palin, on the other hand, realises this is her last chance to establish her credibility on a national stage and is laying it all out on the table…
Women agree with AGW and Biden, men dont. Women go +15 to +20%, menstay at zero to +5%.
Kicking China shoots the male ratings up. Heh!
Biden: “Drill we must”, men go up, women go down.
Where is the thread with the worm? I can’t see it.
I’m watching it on nytimes. I think Palin is doing much better than expected.
Finally, a differentiation on Climate change. prior to that yawn, yawn, yawn.
Palin talks about energy and climate change and oil and drilling and the worm goes below the line …..
Dario #52: I thought the “what promises won’t you be able to afford now” question might catch Palin out, but she bluffed her way through it pretty well.
Women go negative 20% when Palin starts being a Bogan.
William, that will hold up provided the questions don’t get any harder, which I think they will down the stretch
Yes, that was interesting. Possum’s referring to Palin saying people say to her “drill, baby, drill” in reference to energy policy.
Explain…
No, she thinks it is real. She doesn’t think it is caused by human activity.
Agree!
Some of these worm movements are completely at odds with the large qualitative polling done over the last 6 months. The post debate polling will be interesting.
Get this, Biden goes “we need same sex benefits” – men go up, women go down!
Biden supports granting same sex relationships benefits that they don’t currently have; no discrimination …. worm mild positive …..
Swing Lowe, I hope my comment at #68 did it.
Swing – whenever Plain uses one of her folksy sayings and cliches, women hate it and tank nearly instantaneously. The tank doesnt last long, but it’s clearly there and pretty large.
Biden “I dont support gay marriage”, worm goes 20% positive.
Isn’t that the only way Palin talks???
Talking about foreign policy now … moderator mentions that both have sons in or going to Iraq …..
Palin talks first, worm is below the line ……
I wonder if it is because many women voters feel that her folksiness reflects badly on them?
Or maybe there is a reverse Bradley-Palin effect? Women SAY they don’t endorse her folksiness, but will actually vote for her on election day?
Ooooh – foreign policy now.
Palin on “Exit Strategy”. Worm stays dead flat before heading down to -10%.
Critises Obama’s Iraq voting record and goes 5% positive for women – men still dont buy it.
Worm stays dead flat for women, +5% for men
Palin claims we are getting closer and closer to victory in Iraq and it would be a shame to quit …. worm is at or just below the line …..
Biden talking now, women and men are maxed out in the positive … clearely they recognize that Biden has some expertise on this issue
Biden goes +20% postive on Exit Strategy, women go zero to slightly negative when he attacks McCain but men stay positive 10-15%.
He says Iraq must take responsibility and Women go through the roof positive, men go +40%
FP
Biden 2 – Palin 0
As soon as Palin gets her rebuttal the worm dives ……….
Woah! Palin says the Democrats are surrendering, do you really think Biden is letting his son go and fight in a surrender?
How did the “Your plan is the white flag of surrender” comment go on the worm?
Palin, gets in her jibe at Biden for what he said earlier in the year that Obama wasn’t ready to be CIC and the worm tanks ……
This is Palin’s worst answer so far. She is just repeating her earlier points, and is rushing.
Palin accuses Biden of waving the white flag and everyone goes negative 10%. Men slowly lift to 0-5% positive, women won’t have a bar of it and stay negative.
After that Palin flatlines at zero before Men lift to+10% when she starts praising Biden and his military views. She attacks Obama over the troops and his policies and women go negative again
Biden hangs around +15% for his whole last answer
Biden “McCain cut of $1bill 600mill for the troops”
?
WHich is the greater theat, Nuclear Iran or an unstable pakistan?
Biden mentions Pakistan – Women love it at +30%, men at +15/20%.
Men slowly increase to pull level with women – but then Biden talks about helping Pakistan about governance and women positive goes through the roof and cant be measured, men arent so fussed and remain at +20%
Biden says Iran getting nukes would be more destablizing and then goes on to talk about the region in general and mentions Bin Laden and the worm maxs out in the positive ……
As before, as soon as Palin gets her rebuttal, the worm tanks … clearly she has no credentials on this issue at all with the uncommited Ohio voters …..
now palin talking about israel …..
Palin: “they cannot be allowed to have nukes”, “Iran is a danger to Israel etc etc”, worm stays at 15-20% positive.
As expected Palin is doing extremely poorly on these foreign policy questions. These answers are Couric interview like.
she mentions Obama’s claim about talking to the world leaders as part of dealing with them and the worm flatlines …….
Palin – audience doesnt buy her criticism over Obama meeting nasty leaders around the world. Worm stays flat.
world leaders being castro, North Korea’s leader, Iran’s leader, various dictators
I keep fearing for Palin as I wait for her to respond to these foreign policy questions, but she’s doing adequately. Biden’s doing better of course, but Palin has a lower bar to clear.
To her credit she pronounced the name of Prez of Iran correctly.
I think Palin has probably the lowest expectations in a debate ever – lower than Quayle even!!!
Palin: “Back ye up there”
Biden correcting her “simply not true” … he mentions that the Iranian leader does NOT control Iran, that the theocracy does, i.e the religous leaders in committee ….. worm rises to mid level positive ….
I don’t think ‘adequately’ is any help to McCain with him so far down in the polls though, lower bar or not. He needs her to win IMO.
Biden defending Obama’s policy on diplomacy with Iran – rock solid positive at 10-15%. Stangely men drop down to zero on the phrase “last mile of diplomacy” bore recovering near instantly.
palin says that a 2 state solution MUSt be the solution to the Israeli ME crisis ……..
embassy would be in jerusalem in their eyes …..
Palin gets solid +20% average over the Israel answer with women slightly higher then men at times
We’re heading for a draw folks – and that’s good enough for Obama.
Biden bumps Lieberman for the “best Senate friend of Israel” award.
Biden says he would NEVER have joined the ticket unless Obama shared his passion for Israel …….. looks camera straight in the middle says he is the best friend that Israel has in the Senate … worm mid line positive …… (they don’t have NY Jews in control of the worm
)
That was a pitch for Florida
Hence, why Biden has improved Obama’s standings in Florida…
Palin respects Biden for respecting McCain.
Offers everyone in the audience a soda.
Biden ask how Mcain is different form Bush in policy – women love it straight away +30%. Men slower to catch on but eventually rise to +20%
Dario @ 113,
Quite rightly so, NY Jews either retire to FL 24/7/365 OR they live there 6 months of the year, affectionately known in the US as “snowbirds”
Just want to clarify here since I can’t watch it, did Palin endorse the breaking up of Israel into two states?
WTF, I think Palin just made a gaffe. She said the U.S. has a nuclear arsenal “as a deterrent”.
If that is a valid argument, why can’t Iran and North Korea say the same thing?
If she turned up in a bikini would of it been game over?
Certainly if Biden turned up in a bikini….
Palin talks nukes, men dont buy it and go slightly negative, women start to buy it at +5 then change their minds and go back to zero.
She moves on and it ends up +10%.
On Afghan – “we’re fighting terrorists” – men buy in at +7, women dont at -7%. Men peak at +20, women peack at zero
No. She meant Israel, AND a Palestinian state.
Still on FP
Biden 4 – palin 0
Women lagain go positive for Biden at between +20 and 40% whenever he talks serious policy. Men go +10-15% for the same.
Biden “Facts matter Gwen”.
WHo was the first to ask
“Does my ass look big in this?” ???
And they’re saying on Fivethirtyeight, this would be a blowout if it was anyone else but Palin…
Men like it when Palin says “counterinsurgency” Roflol! Seriously, small little lifts for men everytime she uses the work!
Lessons for Palin – talk about terrorists, counter insurgency, carry a gun and dont act like a Bogan!
Maybe it’s the accent…
No, Al,
what she is endorsing is that there should be a Palestinian state as well as an Israeli one with the capital of the Israeli one being in Jerusulem …..
the former is what everyone realizes I think has to happen eventually (question is where to put the palestinian state) but the latter one is poison to the Palestinians, and always has been. They say that the capital in Jerusalem will be over their dead bodies as both call it a holy site ……
In other words – use the Giuliani tactic. Every sentence contains a noun, a verb and 9/11.
Whenever Biden speaks on foreign policy, I dont think the ohio undecideds controlling the dial actually pay much attention. They just send it moderately positive and start daydreaming until trigger words are mentioned.
Women went ballistically positive when Biden talked about stopping genocide in Africa
Phew, for a second there, I thought she just wiped out McCain in Florida.
Ohio undecideds can use dials?!.. woah
A bias accusation will be fired at Ifill for too many FP questions, which is Biden’s strength.
I think they want her to lead the counterinsurgency.
Biden just resuscitated the Blair doctrine when he talked about intervening in Darfur…
We already got a sneak preview of that yesterday.
Palin talks about the Alaska Permanent Fund and she starts dropping from +20% to +10%. Interesting. When she talks about darfour, men dont buy it but women do.
Biden says the exact same thing on darfour in a different, more wordy style of gravitas and pulls +25%
Palin answers Biden …. “Uhm, [silence] , er ……” and in about 4 seconds, starts her answer .. .meanwhile the worm tanks …… (talking about exit strategies from Iraq I believe)
GOOD Question … How would a Biden/Palin adminstration be different from a Obama/McCain one?
Yes, that was Palin’s first rabbit-in-the-headlights moment of the debate.
Biden says he will continue Obama’s policies, talks about eliminating Al-Queida and to work with allies and not dictate policy to them and the worm loves it all …..
It’s worth mentioning again that most of these dial results arent consistent with national qual polling for the last 6 months on undecided and independent voters.
Joe must be a bit of a sex symbol since everytime he opens his mouth now women go through the roof! Men like it too, but only about 50-70% as much as the women folk.
I can’t see any worm, but i reckon Palin made a BIG mistake emphasising her differences with McCain if McCain died. Palin is unpredictable.
It’s a pity Biden has to go first in all these questions. Palin is feeding of his knowledge and expertise. It was a good toss for her to win.
Palin’s answer along similar lines and the worm is positive but men below women and neither as high as they were for Biden …..
It’s because she had run out of talking points that were remotely relevant to the question.
Palin bashes congress.
I must say Biden has been very good so far, even better than his boss Obama.
Is there an obvioius difference in quality coming through?
Palin says “Wasilla Main street” – men drop +20 to +10, women drop slightly less but both recover back to pre bogan cliche level relatively quickly.
Men dont seem to trust Biden on Tax and have started to go negative when he starts mentioning it before recovering as the answer goes on
Palin says “So Joe, there you go again” in starting her rebuttal and the worm tanks ….
Possum @ 146: , I think it is called the ” Sean Connery” effect. My sisters would gladly leave their husbands for a night with Mr C. Can’t see why myself.? Maybe Joe is having that effect also. !
THERE YOU GO AGAIN JOE!
I’m RONALD REAGAN with LIPSTICK!
Thomas – definitely
Palin talks about education and doesnt say a thing, women go ballistic positive.
Did Palin just say “John McCain knows how to win a war, he’s been there”?
any sign of tears
(i’m in a meeting-no picturse)
Pundits will call this a Palin win.
gusface, don’t think so ……
No. But I think Palin is about to offer everyone a lollipop.
Palin: “i want more power under the Const’n as VP”
hmm…
Biden disses Cheney – undecided Ohio women with dials start throwing their underwear at him.
This does raise the question of whether Obama’s decision not to make Clinton VP was a huge mistake.
I can’t imagine her letting Palin get away with dodging every answer like this.
I think Palin hasn’t done too badly. Though Biden is simply the more knowledgeable candidate.
Palin wouldn’t have been picked if Clinton was VP
Palin to withdraw has halved on Intrade to 5. Obama to win is going up to 70%.
Biden’s not there to attack Palin – he’s there to attack McCain. And he’s getting free shots at McCain, because Palin’s responses are scripted…
I don’t think so, Biden is doing fine.
Palin is asked to address the conventional wisdom that she has no experience and the worm tanks with her answer …..
The fact that anyone in the USA takes Palin seriously as a VP reflects an empire in steep decline. Quality is meaningless. Self indulgence everything.
Must be demeaning for Biden, to have to be on stage with a high school kid and take her seriously. She succeeds is she doesn’t wet her pants and smiles.
I think that Palin is even in the equation makes a joke of American policitics. If Palin is even remotely qualified for VP then each of us here is doubly qualified.
Men consistently dont buy the Palin narrative. Women only move with nice words like education and healthcare when she speaks.
She says American Exceptionalism and the Ohio undecideds have a bit of an orgasm.
Biden: experience.
It is obvious now that Palin has been instructed: “Just throw in a fluffy answer to any question and then make a pre-prepared statement”
Biden goes teary over his son in Iraq, Ohio loves him
he choked up! and the wormy women love it!!!
WOAH, the Biden choke up moment is going to be the talking point.
Then smile.
At Intrade there have been some interesting movements in the “Barack Obama’s Intrade value will increase more than John McCain’s following the VP debate” stock.
It started pre-debate in the 60s, has dropped during the debate to around 40, and is now back up to 58. I think McCain’s value will rise more, simply because he’s coming off such a low base and the low expectations of Palin were already factored into his price
Biden’s teary moment was very touching. He’ll be marked up for that.
Every time Palin says “Maverick”, she clips points off her favourability within seconds.
Palin: “We’ve got to not allow…”
Grammar – an optional extra.
Maybe it’s just me, but the depth of Biden’s knowledge and experience is going to stand him in good stead, whatever the pundits say about who won.
I dont think these Ohio Diallsters believe the McCain campaign narrative on anything. That’s dangerous, but if it’s becoming widespread it certainly explains the polls
What I mean is, Clinton would give the Dems a way to cut through this crap and show that the emperor really has no clothes – the Republicans only real shot is to win on image and perception, because the substance has been and remains appalling. Biden and Obama are both positive types, they don’t like really attacking the other side.
Clinton would have given the Obama ticket real, credible teeth.
And if Palin wouldn’t have been picked if Clinton was on the Obama ticket, maybe that’s another reason Clinton should have got it.
I personally preferred Obama over Clinton, but I am concerned at the inability of the Obama campaign to get the media to report on the reality of the McCain campaign. It is just incredible that this woman continues to be taken seriously by anyone.
When she says maverick the all know there is nothing behind it. Reminds them she is a gimmick.
That’s because she’s said it about a million times.
Ben Smith at Politico says that Palin has been taught to ignore the question and answer the question you wish you were asked. That can get pretty annoying after 90 minutes.
so biden is going teary LOL
Isn’t that the ONLY way the Republicans win?
Palin doesn’ty seem to know what the ‘compromise’ means. figures.
Yes! Irony of ironies.
That works well in a 10 minute interview on the nightly news.
Doesn’t work so well in a 90 minute nationally-televised debate.
Biden’s doing as well as he can. Whether he wins the debate will be another matter entirely…
Apologies to Tiny Tyrant and John Kloprogge for taking so long to clear their comments from moderation.
Just once Gusface – when he was talking about difficulties his children had to face when they lost their mother There’s nothing very funny about that.
Gusface put yourself into his shoes, oldest son heading into combat. i’m parent to 4 children, oldest is 22 and currently is a member of the Michigan ANG (Biden’s son is in the Deleware ANG) ……. I would do the same in his shoes.
“LOL” isn’t even in the ball park with that issue ……
Isn’t this the key to winning any debate?
she’s a catchphrase Pez dispenser..
“Barack Obama’s Intrade value will increase more than John McCain’s following the VP debate” is now up to 63.4
Palin offers a Marxist critique of the operation of the mainstream media.
Curiously, she refuses to adopt Marxist economic policy.
The problem is all of this tactical stuff might be obvious to politics junkies, but many of the punters will get virtually no other exposure to her and may not pick up on the technique of avoiding the questions she’s being asked. The average voter might well come away thinking she’s down to earth, interested in energy policy, and generally ok otherwise.
Yeah, but a really huge one that dispenses cans of SPAM.
That’s crazy, it was down to 40 in the middle of the debate.
Biden! Don’t say “great work toots” at the end!
I can see a new game show coming on Channel Ten “Are you smarter than a VP candidate?” For those who find the Fifth grader show too intimidating.
Are you guys watching the same debate as Ben and Jonathan at Politico (I’m not watching at all)? They say Biden is killing her, and they’er hardly Dem supporters. Ben said McCain beat Obama.
You must have missed Bush being elected twice
Yes. But the expectations for Palin were so low that most pundits will probably say it was a close Biden win.
I just think Biden was in a different class.
Is it over yet?
Yes finished a few minutes ago.
First polls should be out in 2 hours.
Dio @ 211: I’m on a couple of US blogs and their reaction is the same. They are saying Biden has shot the moose right between the eyes. !
Watching Sarah Palin and Joe Biden is a bit like watching a person running for President and a person running for Govenor.
Watching this debate shows the quality of American politics Vs Australian Politcs, the questions are more complex and the answers are more direct and more detailed
I reckon Salah Palin would beat most of our Pollies, yet her answers are not has developed and detailed as Biden.
Image our Pollies being asked what promises can you see you not keeping?
William,
now how long do we stay on this thread before moving back to the generic US thread?
No 213
The interesting thing I found, despite my Republican inclinations, is that both candidates have charisma in their own ways.
It’s hard to see that Palin’s performance – as solid as it was – will make any difference to the drift to Obama.
Where you watching it? I’m watching the one (our) ABC is linking to
IMO, with such a low bar…Palin did ok. No real game changes..
juliem,darn
the ‘tears” comment was because last week I thought palin would tear up
(ps have no pictures only going off this blog)
any offence caused, I apologise
Ben Smith’s closing comment seems on the money to me:
“My quick take is that Palin passed a pass-fail test, though she flagged as the debate went on. Though she was chosen for her emotion connection, she was the drier of the two candidates. But if the central worry was that she’d be a drag on the ticket, she likely returned herself to the same status as Biden and every other running mate in memory: Not, ultimately, a major factor at the polls.
Biden, meanwhile, was — as he should have been, given his experience and skill at this — a more effective presence, and a more lucid one. He effectively, and emotionally, used the forum to drive the Obama campaign’s core message that McCain isn’t the man for the economic moment.”
Where can I find authoritative determinations on who won? eg. Who’s been taking a credible poll of undecided voters?
I completely agree.
This is a benefit of having an INDEPENDENT bi-partisan debate commission that sets the rules for the debates, instead of essentially the Prime Minister having a veto power over any of the rules.
I told you Palin would do well if she stuck to being herself!
On ya Sarah!
Someone on the CNN panel just said Joe Biden just gave the best debating performance of his life.
I have to agree that it did seem pretty good.
David Gergen (?) on CNN said this has been Biden’s single best debate performance ever …….
Yes, I thought about the contrast between American and Australian political debates while watching the first debate on Saturday. Australian politics comes off looking shallow.
Best comment from the Slate twitter feed:
Cheers Gusface. No offence taken.
Drudge Poll, always the most impartial guide, calls it for Palin 76-24.
I think he got it mixed up with yesterdays Senate vote.
I think we can safely say the moderator did her job very well. Even the republicans would find it hard to fault her in any way.
I was surprised at female reaction to Biden. Pretty strong.
Palin is a better debater than McCain!
ehehhehe Biden said Bosniac?
In terms of who ‘won’ the debate, only the genuinely random polls that come out in a few days will tell you that. All of these focus-group style polls that the different networks fall over themselves to be the first out with are pretty much a joke.
I just thought yesterdays rumour mongering was an attempt to soften her up so she asked easier questions.
She just “doesn’t understand”…
Didn’t give McCain about an 85% win for the first one? Makes you wonder why they bother…
Yeah, but they set up the narrative before the actual polls come out.
So they create a perception of who won.
Fox news are asking a room full of ‘undecideds’. “who won?”
only a couple are refusing to say that she won..
It’s just a silly web poll thing. It isn’t randomised or a representative sample.
The point is not that she is an idiot, but that her values are bad and that is where Biden needs to step up.
US progressive media guru George Lakoff laid out what the Democrats have to do, how to ‘not think of a Maverick’ etc but Biden and the Democrats are too value-neutral. He let Palin off way too easy.
So is this a “Palin effect”?
I think based on what we’ve just seen, we can safely say Biden and Palin will be a great team at running the USA. They work so well together.
Now who are these other candidates? They’re on toast.
Biden of course won hands down as you would expect. But that is not what is being measured.
Where are they? Alamaba? lol
CNN are doing the same (see my comment above), ‘cept with the opposite result.
That shouldbe Alabama of course
Matt C! thats why I reckon Sarah Palin would beat most of them, clearly Biden outperformed Plain with his experiance and when he mentioned McCain’s voting record Palin didn’t put much into rebutting.
I can’t recall who wrote it but Biden had more to lose tonight for he has a large amount of experiance whilst Palin is somewhat protected by her lack of experiance.
Yeah CNN are almost a political opposite to Fox News, but maybe slightly closer to the middle
Who needs the CNN post debate focus group breakdown – we’ve already covered everything that they’ve come up with! heh!
So Biden will pick up the Clinton women and not Palin. LoL
Soledad O’Brian (CNN commentator in the room with the undecided Ohio voters) asks who won the debate amongst them
2/3 Biden 1/3 Palin
a heap of them said that the VP debate has solidified their votes too ….
she’s interviewing them now ….
only one lady said based upon this debate that she would vote for McCain now ….
The point is all the Obama supporters said she’d make a fool of herself and she didnt so you all have a lot to retract!
yeah, crazy wide eyed lady
That was nice of them to invite Palin’s mum.
231, gusface, again, no worries
…… cheers from canberra ….
I reckon you’re kidding. If Palin had made the same gaffes she has made throughout this campaign in Australia instead, the media would have absoultely savaged her… and while there is Sky News as a kind of Fox News equivalent over here to help support the right wing idiots, it has nowhere near the viewership, nor is as extreme in its partisanship.
256 All Obama supporters said nothing of the sort. In fact the consensus was that the expectations were so low that she would be seen as holding her own if she turned up and left at the finish.
Well, I think she did. I think she demonstrated that she is completely unsuitable for the job. To me she shouldn’t of accepted the nomination, but as she says herself, she accepted it without even consulting with her family.
I certainly never said that
Possum! I suspect the reason why Women like Biden is he is seen as a strong Man, who has leadership experiance, he speaks with a great level of confidence and Women find these traits attractive in Men. You could say he comes of as an Alpha and Women like that, the biggest thing that went in Bidens favor, at no stage did he show any disrespect or aggression toward Sarah Palin in is answers.
I had to laugh when Palin said she and McCain would dedicate themselves to helping the middle class.
If the middle class is dumb enough to fall for that line of bs, they deserve everything they get.
She didn’t actually say much, it was all safe turf: Alaska and herself and hockey moms. A lot of rhetoric, which isn’t particuarly surprising for a US election. I would have liked more actual arguments between the two rather than the moderation. Palin didn’t end the GOP campaign but I don’t think that she won any votes either.
“The point is all the Obama supporters said she’d make a fool of herself and she didnt so you all have a lot to retract!”
she ’survived’ by only suffering a TKO.
yeah, BIG win.
What does it matter what we think?
It matters what Americans think.
Palin is far too shallow and ignorant even of the most basic things. In Australia she would find hereself quickly embarassed and the likes of Red Kerry would expose her less than high school knowledge of the world, economics, FP and many other things.
oh yes, TP, Kerry would eat her alive
…….
That’s the mystifying thing about America – the group who consistently get $%&*ed hard by the Republicans (lower middle class people, who pay plenty of tax, lose their houses, lose their savings, get their kids sent to Iraq, etc etc) are the group that consistently votes them in on “values” issues. So much the same as Australia, then.
McCain might find that the real issues are biting hard enough that some of those people are no longer prepared to vote purely on values and perception though – they might actually personally see the need for a change at this point.
Because this is a blog where we write down what we think.
and the fate of the free world rests with:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/2907906417_a055925763.jpg
so what ever happens, it’s farked.
Especially if he was in “last interview with John Howard before 2007 election” mode.
But I think the only important thing to a lot of Americans – potential McCain voters – is that she didn’t wet herself, kept her mouth opening and shutting with words coming out for the right length of time and was able to keep breathing. What she said was of little importance.
Then why are you here?
True, but I think these people are already rusted on Republicans.
It could actually disillusion some Republicans, and make them stay home on election day. Which again is one less vote OBama needs.
I didn’t see much today that will make independents shift from Obama to McCain, or from no one to McCain.
So to me this will just help Obama.
Dario! Too a point I agree with you for the American media provides a greater level of Political coverage thanks in part to Fox, CNN and MSNBC than the Australian media which tends to see Question time as the mainstay of political coverage.
The reason why I said Sarah Palin would out debate most Australian pollies is while her answers were at times vague and lacking in detail she still provided deeper answers than we obtain from our pollies.
Regarding her gaffes, yes she has made a few but John Howard was good at gaffes also and ofcourse the media were completely in love with Mark Lathem yet he was more than prone to gaffes and one final example premier Steve Bracks was well known for gaffes yet that didn’t hurt him.
One of the talking heads on CNN made the point that Palin failed to establish the Republican case that Obama is a risk, because she was too focused on dispelling her own negatives – whereas Biden was able to take a more strategic view.
Normally I would agree with you, but this election may be a little different due to the enormity of the economic issues that are taking place. I don’t think being all ‘folksy’ is going to work this time around, as the majority of voters are tuned in to specifics more than they would normally be.
273 Zombie Mao
Fear not, that gentleman won’t bring himself to vote for a Muslim. That’s what Obama is, right?
True, but I think these people are already rusted on Republicans.
It could actually disillusion some Republicans, and make them stay home on election day. Which again is one less vote OBama needs.
I didn’t see much today that will make independents shift from Obama to McCain, or from no one to McCain.
So to me this will just help Obama.
Mikey Kaus at Slate
But that’s CNN.
The media in America is so biased one way or another.
MSNBC – Biden Win
ABC – Biden Win
CNN – Biden Win
Fox – Tie
Palin did make Obama out to be a risk especially his lack of foreign policy experience!
Fox only a tie ?!
When even Fox dosen’t give the repubs a win, you know they are farked
Howard wasn’t out of his depth though, Palin clearly is. A gaffe here and there doesn’t matter too much if you still look as though you know what you are doing most of the time.
Latham just looked unhinged, and rightfully got the voter’s boot up the proverbial.
Bracks made a few gaffes, but he delivered and Victorians saw the results.
Sorry about my previous repeated post.
Yeah you’re right, on this figures it is obvious that Fox is the biased one.
No she didn’t, I agree with Mickey Kaus, she FAILED to make people worry about Obama, which is what she needed to do.
On the other hand, Biden criticised “John McCain” more than he critised Palin.
Glen @ 283,
That list equates to a Biden win across the board as you can discount Fox, they are more biased to the Republicans than Sky is to the Libs
…….
If the medium is the message – Palin wins
If the message is the medium – Biden wins
But Sarah Palin is here to stay whether you like it or not. The deer Hunter boys and girls will love her.
I think both Biden and Palin are better than their bosses.
Palin got beaten up the most by Biden on foreign policy – so I doubt she took much out of Obama on that point…
Agreed! Palin was out of her league and something Biden did really well was focus on his strenghts and on McCains voting record, basically leaving Palin to float along
Obama up to 66.9 on Intrade
CNN debate poll: Biden 51, Palin 36. 64 per cent say Biden did better than expected, 14 per cent said worse. 84 per cent say Palin did better than expected, 7 per cent say worse. On that note, can we please take it back over to the other thread.