The latest two-week rolling online panel survey by Essential Research shows federal Labor retaining its record 61-39 lead from last week, although the preferred prime minister gap has narrowed from 41 per cent to 35 per cent. Tellingly, the government’s handling of the financial crisis has the favour of 63 per cent of respondents against 18 per cent disapproving, compared with 31 per cent and 35 per cent for the opposition. Also covered are attitudes to the US presidential race.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Essential Research: 61-39
Copyright © 2008 Private Media Pty Ltd, Publishers of Crikey.com.au. All Rights Reserved.
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861 Comments
It’s interesting that the Opposition have a net negative for their handling of the ‘financial crisis’. I know from my speaking with people that they haven’t been happy with the Opposition claiming they support the Government’s action and then complaining about everything.
I think one thing we can probably gather within the next couple of polls if this ‘trend’ continues is that Malcolm Turnbull isn’t the political mastermind he was made out to be. I’ve always said he will not cut it with the general public so will be interested to see where this will go.
Interesting: that must mean a full 50% of regular Liberal voters approve of Rudd/ Swan’s handling of the crisis.
The figures also indicate Talcum not only made a mess of it; people have noticed him doing it too.
Read and weep, Talcum.
I should actually correct my previous comment by adding that the large number of people ‘undecided’ about the Opposition’s response to the ‘crisis’ indicates that the Opposition haven’t been able to present a clear idea of what their policy is.
On another topic, Rudd comments on Bush conversation leak:
“Mr Rudd would not confirm if the source of the story came from his office.
“On the source of individual stories … there are multiple conversations with multiple people from political offices and elsewhere which leads to the construction of a story,” he said.”
Well if that isn’t obfuscation I don’t know what is!
Wow, Australian’s really don’t like George Bush.
Fair enough.
Family First outpolling the Nationals, hah.
kev returns fire
“Instead, he said in Brisbane today that Mr Turnbull had been “jumping up and down about alliance politics” and he was the one who needed to apologise.
“My call on Mr Turnbull and the Liberal Party is to apologise to Senator Obama for those remarks, for those statements,” Mr Rudd said.
“It is extraordinary that one side of politics could make such extraordinarily partisan remarks.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24594569-5013871,00.html
It’s clear as to what happened with that phone call. Some clown at that gathering has joked about bush not knowing what the G20 was and Mitchell, sensing a way to make mischief, has reported it as fact. It didn’t happen. Case closed, move on.
No 5
Gus, Kev is just obfuscating in order to disguise his own office’s incapacity to keep a tight ship.
“I should actually correct my previous comment by adding that the large number of people ‘undecided’ about the Opposition’s response to the ‘crisis’ indicates that the Opposition haven’t been able to present a clear idea of what their policy is.”
Perhaps because the Libs have no policies, they just jump at whatever can draw them a headline. It’s been the Lib trademark since December 2006 – throw anything and everything at the immensely popular Rudd in the hope that some mud eventually sticks.
SNIP: Lame comment deleted – The Management.
Response to lame comment deleted – The Management.
Someone was saying the other day that Downer should be off-limits for political comment these days cos he’s a diplomat and no longer in politics.
Well, seems he is still playing politics, judging by his appearance on Libsiders yesterday, with his hissy “demand” that there be an enquiry into who said what about Bush.
So as far as I’m concerned it’s open season again on Lexie – politically anyway.
(William, does the post at number 9 meet your requirements for value-adding?)
GP you’re blinded by your allegiance.
From day one of Rudd, the Libs have thrown anything and everything at the immensely popular Rudd in the hope that some mud eventually sticks.
Infact, it’s obscene!
Pretty Labor optomistic polls from this group, makes you wonder just how far they are from reality.
When the LNP lost the election I was most encouraged by Turnbull’s comments about a number of Howard policies being dead. He spoke like a real moderate and sensible person. If he had continued on in the same vain without the move to slash and burn political opportunism, criticism for its own sake, the direct attacks on decent public senior servants going about their jobs and so forth he may well have done much much better. It must be some sort of envy that Rudd generates in Liberal politicians that they can’t stop themselves going down the hate and spite path.
Rather than representing a new type of Liberal Party politician he has followed the same old dirty path. He is in the process of trashing his brand with many though his vast stable of media remoras help to confuse the truth.
I don’t think U-Turnbull is not “trashing” the brand. After the WorstChoices fiasco it wouldn’t be easy to trash it much further than it already has been. What he’s doing is consolidating its reputation for the politics of attack and smear.
on the 4 30 pm news they’ve said that Rudd absolutely denies that the remark was ever made and he has no idea where it came from, sounds like another lib dirty trick to me–re the pamphlets fiasco, as for dolly Downer –theres nothing sadder than yesterdays man trying to prove himself still relevant, {not that he ever was.}
Hah, I also heard Rudd on the ABC news specifically deny the remark was ever made. Hope that turkey Uhlmann now eats crow.
Downer played politics on the weekend basically criticism Rudd over the ‘leaked’ phone call (as if he didn’t know it is B/S). He really shouldn’t be slagging his boss like that for a start. But in his typical spite mode as he is when it comes to Kevin Rudd he couldn’t avoid some snide comments.
But the real disgrace with Downer is that he was Minister for Foreign Affairs when Howard openly trashed the Obama and the Democratic party and, if anything was going to put an alliance at risk it would be that sort of premeditated hostility to the man likely to be the next President and the ruling party of the US.
Where was Downer’s comdenation of that? There was none and what we got instead was Downer standing up for the disgraceful campaign tactics the Republicans have been using. Downer is the man of shame, willing to support harming relations with the USA in order to play partisan politics for the Republicans. Does Downer have even the smallest amount of credibility.
So at the end of the day Rudd was the better diplomat out performing Downer and got the better posting, he out performed him as Opposition leader and made it as PM. Downer eventually got his success in the dimplomatic circles by being given it by the man who soundly beat him at everything.
“When the LNP lost the election I was most encouraged by Turnbull’s comments about a number of Howard policies being dead. He spoke like a real moderate and sensible person. If he had continued on”
The problem is, unlike the old days, the party dictates the leader, not the other way around. Turnbull represents the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party does not represent Turnbull.
A vote for the Libs is a vote for the conservative-stacked party that Howard assisted in.
Also interesting in this poll is the disapproval rating for the Coalition’s handling of the GFC. Don’t suppose they’ll learn though.
Judith I think the OO ABC and Alan Jones type shock jocks are the only ones pushing this nonsence. They are getting more shrill the more they are ignored and their lie isn’t getting any traction.
Sorry to self-reference (and nakedly blogwhore): but I posted on the Downer Cyprus appointment on my blog a while back. http://bitemylatte.blogspot.com/2008/07/galbraith-on-downer.html
Good grief, PM has just had Mesmerelda on, criticising Rudd for not squashing the story the weekend before last when it was published and for seriously damaging the U.S. alliance. I saw or heard of it being denied at least twice last week, the first time on Monday.
lefty e, I had not realised that Galbraith had crossed paths with Eddixinder. Sounds like he had him sussed.
I doubt plagiarist Mesmerelda has a leg to stand on when demanding Rudd attribute something to its correct source. It’s something she serially fails to do.
Like anyone listens to a thing she says now anyway. Probably got a staffer to write up her talking points.
Does anyone remember the “good old days” when the Libs used to get 50% plus of the TPP. It’s true.
Oh, and twelve months ago, John Howard was PM.
My how the world changes!
“Does anyone remember the “good old days” when the Libs used to get 50% plus of the TPP. It’s true.”
Well not really. Howard spent most of his time around 50-50 give or take, unlike the immensely popular Rudd.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/the-long-view/
Nuff said.
GG
“Oh, and twelve months ago, John Howard was PM.”
I have only just got over the nightmares. I still cringe when I hear the term “the government said” but then realise its now Labor not the fibs in power.
Yep, Harry – they stoushed over the Timor Gap royalties big time.
Downer lost.
Gusface @ 29 –
Same here. The habit of 11 years is hard to break.
Tp,
Actually agree very much with your comments. Downer is way out of line if he is making partisan Party comments while enjoying the largesse of a Government sponsored appointment.
Not across all the facts, but prima facie he should be facing the sack.
Gus and Roxie,
Put your bravest front on and say “Boo”.
Or whistle a happy tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhhgXdC0q4Q
lefty e, no wonder they sent him to Cyprus, though I don’t see why the Cypriots should have to suffer him.
G.G. @ 27, that’s rather cruel, you know? That eleven plus years was nothing short of ghastly in the extreme. The only thing Howard did in his entire time in office that I agreed with, was get rid of the guns after Port Arthur. No, two things, the second being sowing the seeds of destruction of the Liberal Party in its current form.
Ooohhh the agony of sitting in a car, listening to ‘our Canberra correspondent’ on ABC radio (some woman who’s name I didn’t recognise) saying that parts of a conversation with George Bush and Rudd had been leaked, that GB hadn’t known what the G20 was, that Rudd had categorically denied that Bush had ever said that, but, given Rudd’s expertise in foreign affairs, it really was embarassing for him that this had happened!!
So, in other words – it was a rumour, it’s been denied, but how silly of the PM to do it!
The real disgrace was Downers remark that “He was sick of visiting busted arse countries”.
Thing is he never mentioned which countries he thought had prostituted themselves so much as to end up being worthy of his description of a busted arse country.
Downer visited many countries during his time, Howard was only interested in the USA, was pretty xenophobic about most other countries, and was happy to keep Downer away from Australia and for that matter the USA. He didn’t care what damage Downer did to relations with the other countries, for the big issues he just pushed Downer aside and handled then himself.
Now that Downer is out of politics he may care to repair some of the damage by disclosing just which countries met his criteria of busted arse.
Will give the current administration some help in understanding which damaged relationships they have to repair.
dawson, I share your pain. This issue has had me just about apoplectic, mostly about the ABC, and about parts of the ABC that I had previously taken seriously, such as PM and AM.
What on earth are you talking about HSO?
Itep, what in particular?
Your condemnation of the ABC seems a little misplaced. What exactly have they done wrong?
For the ABC to report this story AT ALL, given that it has been denied by both parties, is a sign that their standards of journalism have seriously declined.
For the ABC to report this story AS IF IT HAS CREDIBILITY, given that it has been denied by both parties, is simply disgraceful.
My spouse has a theory that the poor standards of ABC programming and reporting (especially out here in the sticks) is a Liberal party conspiracy — we’ll get to the stage where we’ll be BEGGING that the ABC be taken off the air, it’s that bad.
I can’t even begin to describe the dismal programming on local ABC radio. A few weeks ago, the lines were opened and people encouraged to ring in to give their opinion on portion sized packets of cat food versus cans.
I kid you not.
Yep, time to delouse the ABC board of liberal party stooges – appoint some people who know something about programming and journalism for a change.
I don’t think you understand the point of the story. It doesn’t matter whether the statement made is something that really occurred. It’s where the story stemmed from. Has someone from Rudd’s office leaked a version of the conversation (true or untrue) to the media?
Rudd has not denied that the source of the story is from his office. In fact when asked he said this:
“”On the source of individual stories … there are multiple conversations with multiple people from political offices and elsewhere which leads to the construction of a story,” he said.”
It’s hardly a categorical denial that the source of the story was from his office. Therefore we have the possibility that Rudd’s office leaked an untrue version of the conversation to the press in order to provide a puffed up image of Rudd to the press.
No 42
Dawson, the PM obfuscated and the ABC reported. I cannot believe the feigned indignation about the ABC everytime there is criticism of the Government. Get over it – it’s call democracy and the free press.
Does anyone here seriously believe that Bush actually knows what the G20 is?
dawson,
Great example of the dumbing down of a great Australian institution. I can well undesratnd the balance between different aspects of Australian Culture whether that be gardening, politics, books or day to day hum drum. But whatever they do, must be done with professionalism and integrity.
How about a forum on PB about the ABC. It’s always political and never far from the hearts of most PBers.
I believe that the Opposition have bungled their response to the GFC and other current financial matters. As I posted about a week ago, two old age pensioners told me that they were sure Malcolm Turnbull was opposed to the cash handout they were looking forward to so much and so gratefull to Mr Rudd for giving it to them.
I spent some time assuring them their windfall was not in jeopardy, but they remained very concerned and consequently very miffed at the opposition and Turnbull in particular.
While I cant see how these people came to the conclusion they did, my guess is that Turnbulls consistently switching between bipartisanship and blanket opposing has just been confusing among the less sophisticated pensioners and perhaps others.
Normally I wouldnt give too much weight to the opinion of just two people, but these two are habitues of Pensioners Clubs and other gatherings that swap both information and gossip.
Itep, the supposed story has been denied three times. The first time was Monday week ago. The latest today when the PM said it was factually incorrect in the substance of what was reported. I’ve no idea what they think they are doing, other than lazy journalism. I expect more of the ABC, and particularly programs such as AM and PM. Why would you continue with a story such as this? Why should Julie Bishop, unchallenged, get to speak lies as if it’s the truth, on national, supposedly impartial programs? This government may well, and does need to be held to account, for its actions and the effects of same. An ABC that is either incompetent or under resourced to do its job, is to the detriment of us all.
HSO they have not denied that the source of the story, that is the details of the conversation were provided by the Prime Minister’s office. That is the real story here. Why? Because foreign leaders ought to have confidence the details of their confidential conversations aren’t going to be provided to the press.
Rubbish ltep. He denied it AGAIN today:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24593957-29277,00.html
If they have denied the details in the ‘leak’ were true, then how can an ‘untrue’ leak be a leak??? Seriously, what a beat up.
That is him denying the President made the comments in the story. Where does he deny that the details of the conversation were leaked from his office?
Are you suggesting that because he gave an answer that suggested he had no idea that he in fact has an idea? Isn’t that like saying that because a denial was not given (as in “no comment”) we must assume guilt?
Because the office could’ve leaked an untrue version of the conversation to the press. If their office is definitely not the source of the story Rudd could easily say so. Instead he says this:
“On the source of individual stories … there are multiple conversations with multiple people from political offices and elsewhere which leads to the construction of a story,” he said.
No 49
HSO, once again all the bluster about the ABC. Seriously, the opposition has a right to criticise if its chooses to do so. I cannot believe you are criticising her right to free speech! You are a disgrace, seriously.
Gawd Almighty, Itep, why would the highly disciplined Rudd do such a thing as reveal the detail of a conversation with Bush. It just does not make sense. At all.
How can anyone ‘leak’ comments which were never made?
OK…here goes…
Malcolm Turnbull, in private, looking into his mirror, said today that he thought he was terribly good looking.
Now, if MT denies it, I will ask where I got the information from, if it wasn’t from him.
No 54
Yes. Rudd is obfuscating exactly like during the election campaign where he said “I haven’t read the article” whenever something critical emerged about Labor or his character. Of course he’s bloody read it. And of course he bloody knows where the leak came from.
Then why not deny his office has anything to do with the story?
I urge fellow bludgers to formally complain to the ABC about the distorted coverage of the “who said what oh yeh they didn’t say it but should have denied it more often and its destroying the US alliance” affair currently running on ABC radio. Don’t just whinge (even if its fun) take action.
ltep
I respectfully and totally disagree with the tripe your pushing.
please read the story from day one
ps-the line you are pushing ie that rudd is “hiding something” runs parallel to the fib talking points Ive seen on other blogs/sites
co-incidence old chap?
One quote ltep? That’s it?
Oh goody, Generic Person, I’ve made it to disgrace. What do I have to aspire to now? Obscene disgrace? Disgraceful obscenity? What do I have to do to qualify?
Because he may simply have no idea where it came from. What if one of his staffers made a joke to a reporter who then a la Neill Mitchell beat it up into a serious story?
No 62
It only took one quote to embarrass Australia thanks to Rudd’s leaky ship.
If it runs parallel to ‘talking points’ it may just be that these ‘talking points’ are an objective viewing of the facts presented by the parties.
It’s not that difficult for Mr Rudd to just categorically say “The story printed in the Australian is wrong in its entirety. No portion of the story has been provided by me or any member of my staff’.
Instead he’s said one comment is untrue but declined to comment on whether any of the rest of the story is true or whether the outline of the conversation provided in the story was given to the journalist by a member of his staff.
GP, that is an obscene allegation
If he doesn’t know whether the source of the story comes from his office he should find out. Perhaps ask around a bit? He has responsibility for the actions of his staff so he ought to at least do that much.
ltep, so Rudd should say his office didn’t leak a conversation that didn’t take place. Am I reading “Yes Prime Minister here”? That makes no sense whatsoever.
No 68
Obscenely truthful allegation.
GP, it is obscene to have the word truthful in a sentence delivered by yourself
Well obviously Rudd had a conversation with Bush. His office may have leaked details of the conversation and some of those details may have been factually incorrect.
Itep – ‘declined to comment on’ implies that he was given the opportunity to, and declined.
I would suggest that this demonstrates not only your bias, but the difficulty Rudd is faced with.
Obviously, no matter how much he denies this one, the media is going to find a reason not to be happy with the wording of the denial.
The more he denies it, the longer it stays a story.
So his best action is to deny it and move on, not stick around playing semantic games to make sure he’s crossed every single conceivable ‘t’ the media might come up with.
I can just see some smart arse journo – if Rudd used the form of words you suggest – coming out with ‘Ah, but he didn’t say which story in ‘The Australian’ he was referring to.”
It does sound like it doesn’t it. And this is the best the Libs have lol.
Just one question. Does this whole issue make Rudd look good or bad?
Dawson @ 74:
“Mr Rudd would not confirm if the source of the story came from his office.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/03/2408662.htm?section=justin
The media will have to be happy with his denial if he words it plainly.
If it makes him look bad then wouldn’t you think Rudd and his office would have seen this coming? Of course they would have. This is coming from a source (try Chris Mitchell for a start off) that has it in for Rudd.
But look at the way the sentence is phrased – it’s contorted in an effort to make it sound evasive.
A more accurate way of phrasing this would be “Mr Rudd didn’t say if the source came from his office’.
You can ‘not confirm’ something if you haven’t been asked it, or indeed if you’ve denied it.
The very sloppiness of the wording makes it suspect.
Julie Bishop says, Julia G, you look like you need a big free kick, so here you go:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/03/2408968.htm?section=justin
Any idea how that will square with what Michael Keenan said last Friday:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/coalition-backdown-on-laws-for-workplace/2008/10/31/1224956332616.html
Dawson, without seeing footage of that press conference it’s hard to say. I assume there will be a transcript somewhere.
I generally tend to believe the ABC over politicians but acknowledge the sloppiness of ABC journalism of late when it comes to the finer details.
Gary Bruce, it’s possible the story is a complete fabrication from a journalist at the Australian. If it is a complete fabrication Kevin Rudd should be able to categorically deny that the source of the story is from his office.
The problem is, some of you will criticise the media or other posters for even questioning who the source is.
stock standard MSM tactics …
1. put out some unverified accusation
2. … which is then denied and proven false
3. then change the story to THE COVERUP of the original story
… ffs same old crap every time
Itep – what we’re questioning is if there is a source (as such) at all.
If one doesn’t exist, because the comment was never made, then how can anyone confirm or deny where it came from?
If a journo misheard a wisecrack….”What were you and the PM laughing about? Doesn’t GB know what the G20 is?” “Yeah, got it in one.” ….then there is no source.
Well it’s possible that’s what’s happened here. Where did all the other details of the story come from?
Details such as?
All the details in this story:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24549090-5013404,00.html
For instance:
“Rudd, the former diplomat and Mandarin speaker, advised Bush that the G7 plan, largely being pushed from within Europe, was out of touch with the reality of the Asia-Pacific century.
It made no sense, he said, to take action on the crisis without engaging China.”
Given that Rudd had been advocating G20 publicly for some time, who knows where the comment came from
GP, as you and your fellow tories ponder the important of the G20 story, I wonder what the general public thinks?? Well the numbers at the top 61/39 might give you some indication. The opposition, running on its issue of the day fed by the OO, Glen Milne or his ilk, has no direction and appears to not be doing the groundwork to be a viable alternative government. You see, Turnbull SAYING he’s going to win the next election aint gonna make it happen. It might be good for Labor for your lot to keep their heads in the sand for a few more terms, but I kind of think its good for democracy to have a viable opposition
Good to see the Joyce experiment as leader of the NAtionals in the Senate is working so well:
At last! Turnbull has “a test”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24595307-601,00.html
87 – Come off it ltep. Do you seriously believe someone from Rudd’s office would make fun of the POTUS to a reporter to big note Rudd?
I’ll ask again, is this story good or bad for Rudd’s and the government’s reputation here and overseas? If bad, doesn’t that shoot the “big noting himself” theory?
Ok Dario, what about this:
“During the spirited 30-minute discussion that followed, Rudd continually brought Bush back to his contention that political imperatives and economic common sense demanded the involvement of China in any response to the crisis.
He told Bush he had heard “through back channels” that the Chinese believed the economic collapse underscored the inherent failures of capitalism and the benefits of a planned economy.”
Grog
“Well it’s possible that’s what’s happened here. Where did all the other details of the story come from?”
Gary Bruce, if you read the story it paints a good picture of Rudd, as someone in charge and saying all the right things.
The question is are the details of the conversation plucked from mid-air as you seem to be suggesting or are they part of a strategic leak by Rudd’s office or another source?
ltep,
Please accept the truth. There was no leak, that article you linked yo in # 77 the story of the words used was denied 3 times.
The story on what the conversation was about, that is the G20 and the G7 and China is not a leak it was the truth as stated by our Kev.
The real issue here is not the invented issue but the obvious corruption in the ABC that now sees it present it’s stories regularly in such a way as to attack the government and give every assistance to the Liberal party.
The ABC is quite obviously being coached or instructed how it has to present its political stories to ensure the greatest possible negative portrayal of the government.
This evening’s ABC radio story on the current issue is a blatant example of such corruption, ensuring it gave every opportunity to Bishop to attack and make repeated attacks using a strawman issue that they all know is straw. It is apparent that this was organised and scripted with the Liberal party.
It is corruption because the ABC being a tax payer funded body has a duty to be non partisan. But it has gone beyond just being occasionally partisan or leaning to one side to being an all out Liberal party promotional arm. It has all the hallmarks of being a preplanned, intentional move to strongly promote the Liberal party and or undermine the government.
It is time I think for the Govt to split up the ABC and get the Howard plants out of news and current affairs, away from radio and its web site.
The story is just rubbish. That’s the long and short of it. It’s garbage, c*%p.
Muskiemp, what about this part:
“Sources said Bush spent the first third of the conversation attempting to keep Rudd at bay. Although the President was seeking input, he was initially resistant to the idea of allowing nations like China into the tent.
But over time, Rudd appeared to convince Bush he had a reasonable point.
“He was like a bull terrier,” said one source. “He was polite but firm. He was not deferential at all. I could not have imagined John Howard talking to Bush like that.”
Where did that part of the story come from?
I’m with you Thomas Paine. I’ve never seen such garbage from such places such as PM.
HSO, if that’s the case why doesn’t Rudd just say that? They’ve disclaimed one part of the story rather than the entirety of the story. Why not just say “No part of the story is true and no member of the Prime Minister’s staff played any part in the creation of this story”
ltep – it’s not the rest of the conversation that is the problem is it? What makes you think that because someone has discussed the conversation with a reporter that they also said that Bush didn’t know what the G20 was?
Probably the same place that alleged Bush said “What’s the G20?”, i.e. somebody’s arse
Fortunately the issue the Liberal Party has decided to corrupt the ABC with is a non event and will find difficulty in making any impact on the public who already know and trust Rudd on foreign affairs and know that he or his office wouldn’t engage in such things.
This is something the OO, Turnbull and the ABC ought to think hard about. Rudd will hardly be affected by this because he has something they are losing very quickly, credibility. Turnbull does not yet have much credibility and in fact the last public opinion on him was that he was not trustworthy.
Itep, what about making it up?
HSO,
It’s not that good!
Sorry Gusface, not sure what you’re referring to.
ltep the more you relate that story to me (I haven’t read it) the more implausable it seems to me that Rudd or his office leaked it. It is crap.
Dario/HSO
Why would the journalist bother making up a story which makes the Prime Minister look like he’s influencing world leaders?
Gary Bruce you don’t seem to get it. It’s bad that any part of the private conversation was leaked to the press, not just potentially embarrassing parts of the conversation.
Ltep – does that story make Rudd look good in your eyes? I don’t think it is a good look at all. Hence the reason for the story.
Oh c’mon! Parts of conversations between leaders gets reported ALL the time. Just as Cabinet papers get leaked – the ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top.
109 and you think Rudd and his office would be aware of that? Give me a break.
Heard two news stories on the ABC today about the expected rate cut tomorrow. Both times the stories were basically vehicles of publicity for the Liberals.
This morning it was U-Turnbull, saying the banks were prosperous and could afford to pass on the full extent of the cut to customers. And this evening, the same line, this time delivered by Mesmer-Eyes.
Now, I would have thought the ABC might have questioned these senior Liberals a little. Something along the lines of, “How credible do you think your party is on interest rates, given that under your government rates rose to the second-highest in the developed world?” Possibly a request for a “please-explain” to the fact that under the Liberals’ high-rate regime the proportion of average income needed to service the interest component of the mortgage reached the highest levels ever.
But nothing. They simply accepted the Liberal soundbites without any follow-up, analysis or contextual comparison.
This is disappointing for: 1) the shallowness of reporting & analysis; and 2) the apparent prostitution of what is supposed to be a neutral news service for the day’s Liberal Party Talking Points.
Gary Bruce, yes it does make Rudd look good to the casual observer.
Grog, show me one other story which goes into the private discussions between two world leaders like this one does. In addition show me one which paints such a great image on one of the leaders.
ltep, please explain to us what possible benefit Rudd or his office would have from ‘leaking’ that Bush didn’t know what the G20 was, when clearly he did. Give it a try…
I tend to think as I may have said earlier that this was a premeditated and coordinated attack on Rudd trying to undermine his extremely strong international credentials.
The Liberal party advantage on economics as such as it was in the public eye has suffered and is not much of an advantage anymore and they (the Opposition) made a dogs breakfast of the economic crisis. They have thus moved on to foreign affairs as they know it will be a major part of Rudd’s future activity given the economic crisis and international meetings. This is why they have taken something very trivial, invented it to be something else and have been running non stop with it, to extreme levels.
The ABC has well and truly outed itself as having an agenda to undermine the government.
What I am looking forward to is six months out from an election and just before Obama makes a visit to Australia, Rudd in parliament demands Turnbull and the Liberal party make an apology to the President and the United States for equating them as supporters of terrorists. (should Obama win). Or ask do they support Howard’s view and demand that they repudiate his view.
The same benefit the rest of the story would have, to make Rudd look like he was calmly getting the President of the US to agree to something which would be advantageous to Australia.
Now explain to me why Rudd cannot flat out deny the entire story and that none of it comes from his office.
itep @ 98
Where did that story come from?
That is the story as reported, the lie is the supposed leak.
ltep, this took me 2 seconds to google. Read it.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=28&ContentID=48268
By making him out to be stupider than we already think he is? You must be joking…
Believe me ltep the casual observer wouldn’t be reading the OO and certainly wouldn’t be reading such an article. This is a beat up and will be dead issue, and IS a dead issue already.
Grog
sorry the rest of the post just vanished.
Those are very general outlines of conversations as opposed to the specific outline the Australian gives. They also don’t spin the conversations to make it appear as if Rudd is winning something for Australia.
All of you are just so blindly devoted to the ALP that you cannot bring yourself to think Rudd’s office played any part in this. In the end it’s a personal opinion, you think the Australian is making it up to make the ALP look bad. I don’t think so. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Itep, you seem to be assuming that the private conversation was leaked to the press. There is no evidence for this.
Why would they do it? I’ve already advanced the idea that damaging the government at every turn is the primary function of the Coalition, the O.O. and now seemingly the ABC.
I’ve already advanced reasons why neither Rudd or his office would do such a thing.
Just going on and on about it does nothing. You’re getting about as boring as Generic Person.
I really don’t wish to repeat myself, or have to rehash previous discussions.
I just don’t understand why you’d try so vehemently to defend Rudd’s office when they’re doing so little to defend themselves. A quick, short statement would clear it up. No the story is factually incorrect in its entirety and no part of the story has been conveyed to the Australian by our office.
“All of you are just so blindly devoted to the ALP….”
A bit harsh on GP and Glen, but I’m happy to welcome them as fellow travellers if Itep’s outing them.
bet it was great! (the lost ones always are!)
ok ltep this is the best i can find from just one google search:
of “blair and Bush phone call” on google:
Or this from Howard and Bush:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/07/politics/main1596108.shtml
OK not the detail you want. But it’s getting late, and I’m more into the stupidity of Julie Bishop raising IR again, or Joyce on the university fees than this old straw clutcher of a story.
My final point – if Rudd leaked it, it’s no worse than Costello’s gaffe after meeting the Fed Chair, and he got on ok afterwards.
ltep, you are asking us to believe a story when something as ridiculous as “What’s the G20?” appears in it, is denied by both parties, but yet the rest must be true?
That is not true. You seem to think that Rudd and his office are a bunch of ego maniacs that will do or say anything just to big note Rudd. Even at the expense of the US Australia relationship. Give me a break. This is the Bolt argument.
I would argue that this article does the opposite as can been seen from what is happening now.
Fair enough Grog. At least you acknowledge Rudd’s office may have leaked it. If there’s a chance he leaked some parts of the story there’s also a chance he leaked the false assertion that Bush did not know what the G20 was.
Many here won’t even acknowledge the fact that any of the story could’ve been leaked from Rudd’s office.
Bishop in another bungle.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/11/another-bishop-howler.html
Sigh, Itep. Let me say this again. If you haven’t noticed, there is a global financial crisis going on at the moment,. It might actually take some time to take in the data coming in from across the globe, particularly when no one knows what it all means, what the new rules may be.
Just how young are you?
What are you talking about HSO?
Yeah, she’s a star…
steve – she’s a goner – Christmas break she’ll be moved to health or education. A big call I know and hard as she is Deputy, but her credability is shot. Turnbull obviously didn’t want her as Treasury, so he’ll be building up a nice file of “reasons for you to move for the good of the party”.
Oh for an Australian SNL…
Julie Bishop is such a winner, steve.
she’d never leak a state secret would she steve.
I mean she is a fiberal and like malcolm , a true warrior for the truth…….
whether she could remember it is another matter
yeah they might have – the G20 bit though seems to me to be more poor journalism – an off the record joke recorded as fact – than a real “leak”. I doubt the PMO would actually say that to a journo for use in a story. I guess my disagrement with you are the ramifications of the story if Rudd’s office did leak it.
But as you have said I think we’ve all reached a point of impass on this topic!
Next!!
Apparently Julie Bishop thinks workchoices is still not dead… (he fishes….)
She really is clueless as a Shadow Treasurer. Her passion for Liberal Party IR ideology is obvious, given she is still defending aspects of SerfChoices. Surely IR would be the natural and sensible slot for her.
Reminds me of how Howard never gave Nelson the Health portfolio. He had the experience, had the passion, yet he was stuck with, variously, Defence and Education for heavens sake.
Like a fish needs a bicycle Bishop needs Shadow Treasury.
What the hell are you enquiring about now, Itep.
“Sigh, Itep. Let me say this again. If you haven’t noticed, there is a global financial crisis going on at the moment,. It might actually take some time to take in the data coming in from across the globe, particularly when no one knows what it all means, what the new rules may be.
Just how young are you?”
What was that about?
Hardest I’ve laughed in years.
So again we’re confused as to what happened to WorkChoices. Can we have a straw poll as to what people’s favourite slang terms are for it? Mine is SerfChoices. Sums it up well.
Her comments on IR are especially dummb as Turnbull had made a point of killoing it off as an issue by appoointing nobody Keenan to the position. And Keenan had done well to say WC was done and dusted.
But just when you thought the fire had gone out, Julie comes along to poor petrol on the embers…
I personally don’t think Wayne Swan is a particularly brilliant or confident politician (I also don’t think that’s really important), but seeing off one opponent, Bishop, should boost his confidence.
No 132
Steve, I wonder why you’re not chastising Rudd for talking down the economy. He said it’s going to be tough and ugly today. Not happy Kev.
Bishop is accident prone. She really isn’t up to the job. I hope she hangs around for awhile.
He didn’t exactly say it was done and dusted though. (My emphasis) …
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24439000-5013404,00.html
They still have “a philosophical position on IR”, so their attachment to it is not dead.
Yesterday’s effort from Bishop was a cracker, too.
No 143
I think your support for compulsory unionism is a vehement indication of your support for involuntary servitude.
I’m loving the explosion about what Rudd said on the phone. ABC news in Perth didn’t mention it, and Turnbull didn’t feature either. Julie Bishop had a 5 sec soundbite, but that was more her being the only notable WA federal Liberal, pushing her ugly mug into a state story. Rudd was in a school and Uhlmann made some joke about a horse. I think there’s some kind of horse festival happening soon.
Here’s a thought, by the way. The Libs did very well in WA at the 2007 election – they’ve got 11 MHR’s here. Apart from Bishop, where are they all? Randall and Jensen pop up occasionally, apart from that… nothing. (Seen Mal Washer lately?) Not what I would have expected from what’s currently the jewel in their crown.
Who gives a toss about all this? Bush is a political corpse awaiting cremation. No-one cares what he did or didn’t say. I thought the topic of this thread was a poll showing LABOR ON SIXTY-ONE PERCENT IN THE MIDDLE OF A FINANCIAL CRISIS FOR CHRISSAKE. Doesn’t anyone think that worthy of comment??
Itep, you may want to question the so called information with which you are provided. It may not be information.
Oz at 143
I also like “WorstChoices”. (Well, not really, but you know what I mean …)
No 148
That’s perfectly normal. A party without an underpinning ideology is unworthy of support.
No 152
Not particularly given that Essential Research polls are useless given how disparate they are from the others.
No 154
Yeah the choices are so bad, Julia G kept them. Yokel Yokel Yokel….
Gp, we are on the eve of another big interest rate cut, probably more than your mates in the Murdoch press have been tipping and you want to nit pick. Rudd is talking about the road to recovery, the Liberals have been hell bent into talking up a recession.
No 158
Rubbish steve. You’re clearly full of double standards. Rudd says economy will be tough, painful and ugly; but that’s not talking down the economy…. hypocrite, much?
It’s the truth GP. and the Liberals have no economic credibility to deal with tough times.
148 cuppa – true there is an out there, but “philosphical position” is pretty weak compared with
Turnbull had it dead in that it wasn’t an issue in the news – ansd was giving Gillard nothing/little to talk about. Julie B has just given Gillard her first Dorthy D next week.
HSO @ 153
I still have no clue what you’re talking about.
No 160
They dealt with the Asian financial crisis, they dealt with Labor’s criminally negligent $96 billion of debt, they dealt with the drought, they dealt with the global financial decline after 9/11. Your posturing is replete with meaningless platitudes.
Grog
Putting Keenan’s admission that they still “hold to a philosophical position on IR” together with Bishop’s “they should rethink its rollback”, it is clear to me that they are intent on re-imposing back SerfChoices if they should ever get back into government.
They say WorkChoices is dead, but that only refers to the name, the brand, which they killed off before the election.
No 162
Nevermind ltep; HSO does not believe in free speech, does not believe in freedom of the press and does not believe in government criticism.
GP how did they deal with the drought? Wasn’t Howard’s policy on water to ‘pray for rain’?
Itep @ 55:
Jeezus Itep, for someone who, on the last thread, said explicitly that he thought this Phonegate thingmy was probably all made up, you sure hang onto a non-story like a dog guarding a bone.
What is it with youse wingnuts? Can’t get used to the fact you lost? Think Labor is permanently unsuitable for office? Reckon the polls are always (and all) wrong? KRudd’s a dud or something? Wake up to yourself and try to be constructive, or failing that, at least a human being for a change. That’d be nice (if unlikely).
Have to say the Lib primary vote in this poll of 31% seems very bloody low.
Not exactly the boost Turnbull would have been promising the faithful. Still, early days.
He can fall lower
thought we’re still in it?
No 164
Cuppa, Ms Bishops musings from earlier this year are inconsequential. There is now a new leader of the party and for all intents and purposes, Workchoices is dead. Yes, the Liberal Party philosophically supports liberalised labour markets, but it did not get popular support.
Gp, interest rates are lower now than when Howard was elected initially and when he left office. What happened to interest rates will always be lower under the coalition? Tell me about meaningless platitudes why don’t you?
I agree – and I bet my super that will be the ALP’s line all the way till 2010.
No 167
Huh, I’ve now heard it all…Bushfire Bill proclaims someone is not human if they criticise the government.
GP she said it TODAY!!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/03/2408968.htm
Bushfire Bill I’m over discussing that issue and think everyone else was hours ago. I am not a Liberal Party supporter but cheers to you if you want to believe so.
No 171
Admit that Rudd is talking down the economy, then we’ll talk. Meanwhile, back at the ranch…if it walks like a hypocrite, talks like a hypocrite, it is a hypocrite.
Itep, no clearly not. Go and have a sleep, I’m certainly going to do just that. The wee three legged cat has been a little more civil in his behaviour this evening. A benefit to us all.
Human beings are sentient, GP. They can add up and construct logical thoughts. Itep wasn’t criticising the government, he was hanging onto a nothing story like a dog with a bone.
Dogs with bones can only growl and make other inscrutible noises, signifying nothing.
Generic Person at 170 wrote:
Well, they’re not musings from earlier this year, but from earlier today.
ABC News, 3 November 2008
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/03/2408968.htm?section=justin
Very consequential, given the currency of her never-changing attachment to IR extremism.
I disagree with Itep in some areas, but I don’t think he’s a Liberal supporter, let alone some kind of hack that spouts the talking points day after day… like some.
No 174
My apologies, I looked at the link and thought it said 11th March.
Itep @ 175:
Oh, for Christs’s sake, Itep, so you think we actually came down in the last shower?
No 178
Dogs are sentient as well.
So, yet another poll, taken during a time where the economy appears to be going down the gurgler, and the ALP is so far ahead in the polls as to be almost emabarrasing.
This has got to be an “outlier”, but ALL the polls have the forces of goodness and light well ahead of the forces of evil, darkness and gaffe. This poll is the perfect salt for their wounds i think and from recent performance’s Turnbull and Bishop deserve it. Idiots!
Seems that the Fibs are letting the OO set their agenda latley, which is pretty poor form considering they are supposedly the alternative government. Still, if this is the way they are behaving now, what if the polls dont “narrow” appreciably by say, this time next year??
I think thats likely if interest rates keep coming down, and Australia is obviously doing better than other economies. Unemployment will be a problem, but at least those who still have jobs wont be being screwed over by SerfChioces (my favorite too Oz) during a labor market downturn. The ALP will be able to play that one really well, particularly if Bishop (bless her!!) keeps bringing it up. Not that she has long left in the ministry. Her kind of political incompetance they can only afford if they are resigned to multiple terms in opposition.
Unfortunately for you Bushfire Bill (and probably most other people here) I will decide what I think is a ‘nothing story’. If other people wish to ignore me they can do so.
No probs – her comments would have made more sense back in March!
No 185
BB’s had quite a night. Calling people dogs, subhumans and other atrocities just for having the audacity to criticise the government.
so are Libs. sentient, G.P.?
Whatever BB, it may be easy for you to dismiss everyone who criticises the government as Liberal stooges but that’s the fastest way back to the Opposition benches.
No 188
Quite.
I don’t think BB objects to anyone criticising the Government. He seems more concerned about the corrupting of the political process by this beat up.
Sure beats treating them as dogs, treating them as sub-humans and a number of other atrocities for having the audacity to criticise the government.
Ooh how’s that for sneaking Abu Ghraib into a thread about a poll.
That $96Bn of debt had a fair bit of Treasurer howard debt in it. Paid off by selling pulic assets very cheaply.
After the 1993 election, when the voters rejected the GST (Hewson version), Howard piously told us all that the Libs accepted the verdict of the voters and would never ever introduce a GST. We know what happened when he got in. Smashing the unions is far closer to the core beliefs of the Liberal Party than the GST ever was. If they get back in in 2010, or 2013, or 2345, whatever they say now and whatever they say in the campaigns, son-of-WorkChoices will rise from the grave as soon as they are sworn in. This is an agenda they will *never* give up on – otherwise what’s the point of being in politics at all? I give the Libs credit for ideological consistency: they believe what they believe. They are just choosing to lie about it at the moment, just as Howard lied about the GST.
No 193
After 13 years in office, the debt is 100% thanks to Keating’s waste and mismanagement.
Steve
I think most here share your concerns
btw worstchoices is my favourite term,for obvious reasons
though saying that serfchoices encapsulates the master/slave nature of the fib approach to IR
61-39…. interesting poll. Not good numbers for the LNP…
Oh geez, sorry for getting on topic
Won’t happen again!
Generic Person admitted:
That of course is Liberal Party code for handing employers the means to cut the pay, conditions and job security of our kids and coming generations. Integral to this is legislatively strangling unions, to thus remove any chance of fairness in the workplace, leaving workers atomised, on their own to “negotiate” with powerful employer interests.
Yep, we know all that. That’s why youse were booted out, and why (I expect) Labor will continue to remind the people in the years ahead of your agenda.
Adam
hear hear
No 194
Here we go again. Does the fact that Howard took his change of mind to an election ever spring to mind when you mouth off about the GST?
steve @ 191
“corrupting of the political process”
Are you serious?
Adam @ 194
I agree. Work Choices will be back in another name and sold in another way when next they’re in government. It may take them a while to get a hospitable Senate back though (hopefully).
No 197
You’re excused Grog. LOL
No 198
Cuppa, you can bring your kids, your kids’ kids, and your kids’ kids’ kids into this debate if you wish but it’s arrant nonsense all the same.
Subject to minimum standards, indexed to inflation, the market should be free to operate.
The 61/39 is obviously not accurate but it correlated with its previous polls and other polls it shows the trend.
This poll is consistent with its last effort and indicates a likely strengthening of Labor’s position. With the significant increase in Rudd’s personal ratings to stellar levels in the Newspoll, not withstanding that showed a one point drop in TPP, the over all picture is of government in strong position getting stronger.
Apart from MOE fluctuations you would expect from the trend suggested and Rudd’s very high personal ratings that the next Newspoll and other polls would indicate a slight increase in Labors numbers. IMO
And as for Swan he actually beat of the shadow treasurer Turnbull according to the polls and now he is up against Bishop who is intent on Sepaku it seems.
GP @ 200
It depends whether you believe Howard changed his mind or lied about it. I believe he lied about it, as evidenced by the fact they tried to set up a Senate select committee into a GST in 1997.
I am actually more concerned at the process the Libs adopted in the Economic Senate estimates committee the week before last where they attacked the Treasury Secretary and disbelieved every answer he gave because it didn’t comply with another OO beatup.
Then they had a couple of Lib versus Nat brawls and went home poorer than when the day began. No wonder the polls are reflecting the conservative’s economic incompetence.
GP
the word is errant not arrant.
errant is what most of your posts are.
have a nice day
No 204
Swan should be sacked in favour of Tanner.
No 207
Both words exist.
Night all – Barbaricus and Profound Beauty my quinella. Put all your bad money on it.
I reckon. There’s nothing ingenious about flogging off revenue generation assets for a short term balance sheet boost.
Generic Person, you mock me for thinking about my kids. For your information one must consider the welfare of coming generations in the workplace, when confronted with the the Liberals’ ideological commitment to SerfChoices sweatshop conditions.
The enviable working conditions our generation inherited did not evolve overnight, but were the product of generations’ worth of struggle. The Liberals want to mow all that down, take coming generations back to some Dickensian Master-and-Servant type conditions from previous centuries.
No 205
ltep, he changed his mind and took it to an election. You cannot be more honest than that. He put his political future on the line, and he nearly lost Government. Thereafter he was resoundingly victorious in two subsequent elections.
Of course you’d want Swan sacked GP, he’s outperforming Turnbull and Bishop as well as the rest of the Liberal Party.
GP ,we will never forgive you for Serfchoices. Never.
No 212
Cuppa, you debate on emotional grounds. I debate based on principle. I’ve got nothing against children.
No 215
You don’t have to forgive me. Julia already did. She kept Workchoices largely intact.
No, only against their inheriting from this generation a fair and reasonable workplace regime, such as we ourselves inherited.
That is Liberal Party “principle”.
GP I acknowledge that Howard got a mandate of sorts for the GST in 1998. That doesn’t alter the fact that he went to the 1996 election promising “NO GST,” and as soon as he got in suddenly he was in favour of it again. Clearly that was his belief and his intention all along, and he just plain lied about it in 1996. Just as Turnbull and Co are lying about WorkChoices now. Do we seriously believe that a mere election loss has actually persuaded them that WC was wrong in principle? Of course not. What kind of weako wimps would that make them? They just think that that nong Andrews explained it badly. They still believe in it, and if they get back, they will try and do it again. Can anyone really doubt that?
Funny one GP. Which principle would that be?
Generic Person, you’ve got nothing at all in terms of principal. I’ve not seen anything from you that remotely resembles an argument.
What’s “principled” about supporting an idea, apparently scrapping it when its resoundingly defeated but secretly keeping it?
HSO, it would be the principle that if a story emanated story from Liberal Party Headquarters then argue for it.
No 221
Ditto for you. All I read from you these days is endless vitriol toward the ABC. You can’t handle the truth.
actually GP@209 I checked out “arrant”-Origin: 1350–1400; ME, var. of errant
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrant
so if you want to post using words from the middle ages go ahead,it fits with the fibs overall policy approach i suppose.
No 219
The problem, Adam, is that if a politician changes their mind, they are considered liars. I don’t believe John Howard is a liar, and even if he was, he very nearly paid the price in 1998.
No 220
The principle of liberalised labour markets.
By the way, when are you going to admit that Rudd is talking down the economy?
What is it with ‘fibs’? Is the standard of argument really that childish?
Hmmm, what did Howard say? (my emphasis)
http://www.smh.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/prime-mover/2007/11/19/1195321650843.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Least he got that one right.
ltep
“What is it with ‘fibs’” cos they lies der
No 225
Gusface, amidst all that pomposity and tomfoolery, you forgot to read the definitions of each variant. The definition is subtly different for arrant and errant.
Oh, bugger it, if that is acceptable by William. The ALP is ahead by a big margin, the Opposition has the credibility of a gnat, that’s sounding like Xmas to me.
That same idea, Work Choices, was kept from the electorate in 2004 and then rammed through without any consultation and minimal debate. There was no “principles’ in the original policy and the way it was legislated and implemented.
Have a look at the polls since the GFC worsened and tell me the Australian people like the way the Liberals have been talking down the economy. Nothing like ignoring the evidence GP.
GP
enough splitting hairs just admit that catweazle is the fibs policy guru
No 222
You can hold philosophical principles but not necessary attract popular support. Compulsory student unionism is a philosophical treasure of the ALP, but holds no meaningful support by students, an overwhelming majority of which choose not to pay for union services. But Kate Ellis has reintroduced it by stealth.
steve, the polls cannot be used to prove anything you wish to say they prove.
No 233
Steve, where and when has Turnbull talked down the economy? It is plainly evident Kevin Rudd has talked down the economy: just today he labelled it ugly.
What truth would that be, Generic Person ?
61-39
I think gusface nailed it a while ago when he said that the libs are like a kitten with a ball of wool.
They play around with it rolling on the floor, looking cute and at times entertaining, but you can only watch them for so long before you have to get back to the serious stuff.
Thats all they are at the moment , is a distraction, and from the look of the polls that is what a lot of people are also thinking.
No 239
Castle, all politics is a distraction until election season.
There’s a difference between the PM telling the the country what to expect and crap.
No 238
That the ABC is not a mouthpiece of the Liberal Party. That the ABC is entitled to criticise the government.
Mark my words, our PM is on the verge of becoming one of the most highly respected and talented leaders in the world. Australia is in a strong position to face the GFC. Our budget is well in surplus. Our corporations are delivering record profits. We are making the necessary investments in planning for our long term prosperity. Interest rates are falliing. The wealth is being shared fairly with a $10.4bil package. Our leader is an expert in affairs with our largest trading partner. And most world leaders like Rudd, most certainly more than his predecessor.
Of course the liberal party MSM stooges are desperately trying to discredit the PM for their own political interests. It’s that simple.
Rudd has handled it like a professional and not like the media or ltep wants him to.
Perhaps Centre. Professionals often don’t handle things with much transparency either.
That is just partisan rancour.
castle@239
that comment was directed straight after the nov election (i think).
the disarray and despondency of the fibs seemed to be because suddenly the boys were asked to play a mans game(sorry for the sexist reference).Rudd had said he was going to play with their (the fibs) minds and subsequent events have shown that I have given kittens a great disservice-more appropriate I think these days is “moths to a candle”.
So GP, you expect us to believe that Howard enthusiatically supported a GST in 1993, changed his mind and opposed a GST in 1996 (thus accepting Keating’s arguments), and then changed his mind back again in 1998? Come along now. We all know that Howard doesn’t work that way. He’s a man of principle – he supported a GST consistently. He just chose to deny this fact to get himself elected PM in 1996. No doubt he justified this in his own mind as a necessary deception for the greater good. Mutatis mutandis, Turnbull Bishop and Co are engaging in what they see as a necessary subterfuge now. They know they will have no hope of winning in 2010 if they say, “Yes we’re proud of WC and we’ll bring it back if we win.” So they pretend otherwise.
Good post, Centre at 243. Rudd’s disapproval ratings are low (don’t have the figures at hand). That represents the bitter core of Liberal supporters, the real extremists out there, on the extremities of popular sentiment. Figures also indicate a percentage of people who are nominally Liberal supporters, who approve of his performance.
If I was Turnbull would be watching for the knives, possibly from Abbott or Hockey.
And ironically it happened on Melbourne Cup day 2006
No ltep, There are much more important things for a professional on the agenda at the moment than playing in the gutter with a few partisan journos.
C’mon GP, where are your body language skills? Have you seen Rudd with other leaders compared to Howard. Truly.
Howard and the Liberals did not get a democratic mandate in 1998 because a majority of voters voted indicating preference for Labor and no GST over the Liberals.
I don’t understand why the opposition just want to tear down the PM. Do they think, really, that just tearing down a government so they get the government benches, is really all there is to it?
Of course HSO. What use is it being in Opposition? You think Labor wouldn’t do anything to tear the Liberals down when they were in government?
ltep
labor constructed a reasonable policy base that allowed people to differentiate labor from liberal.Also principled stands were taken on a variety of issues.
The current opposition is not presenting alternatives-just carping and whining
Boy do the Liberals ever need to read this one.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/03/opinion/03krugman.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin
H”S”O, they really have no alternative. They have no policies. Maybe some of the conservatives here can tell us but I doubt it!
HSO
Its waht they see as their (narrow) idea of opposition. But don’t worry – they are not putting up any credible alternative and meanwhile Rudd and Swan are acting to fix the crisis. As long as that continues, then they can attack all they like, it won’t cut through.
Rudd did well in the closing stages of his leader of the opposition term last year not by being shrill, but by being calm, and proposing alternative policies, which the government was forced to adopt. It made him look like a leader, and the polls have confirmed thats the impression people have ever since. Turnbull is a better opponent than Nelson, but he is still not denting Rudd’s position as preferred PM.
That may be true gusface but everything Labor did was a strategy to get it back into government. There was no philosophical high ground taken.
They knew it was electoral poison, so what better day to try and get it in with as little media scrutiny as possible
No, Itep. I absolutely disagree. The point of Opposition in the Westminster system is to sharpen and refine the government’s policies through debate. This is not what the Opposition is doing. Or any one else in the MSM for that matter, which is why I’ve been going a bit feral about the ABC’s treatment of the Rudd/Bush convo..
There will be nothing more scary to Australians during an economic slow down with increasing unemployment than a policy like Workchoices. They will see it as a tool for business to use and abuse them as it previously did.
It will be very simple for Labor to use this type of IR thinking by the LNP in any number of ways, all of witch will make Australians most anxious.
If the LNP don’t dispatch Workchoices and its intents without qualification they could find themselves slaughtered at the next election. It will be ‘the’ most pertinent issue again.
The hard right will of course resist this as making an unqualified ‘execution’ of WC type IR means it is dead for the foreseeable future, they wont have the option of using it if they got into power. The Minchins and Bishops of this world will be ngashing their teeth.
which
Itep @258:
Yes ALP wanted to get back into power. But they wanted that since 96!
They really had no chance though till Rudd did the calm, “I am the alternative PM and i have something real to say” thing so well in the year before the election. Not shrill, not nitpicky, not having his agenda run by a newspaper, just getting on with it and playing his game, not Howards.
Howard, and the Fibs were lost pre Nov 2007, and the Fibs without Howard are still stumbling around. They will be back, eventually, but they have to prove they can do the hard bits like being an effective opposition before anyone will see them as having much credibiity.
“That may be true gusface but everything Labor did was a strategy to get it back into government. There was no philosophical high ground taken.”
ltep
labor wasnt “doing anything to tear the Liberals down when they were in government”
they were doing everything to present a government that was for all of us.
dwell on those words “for all of us” not just fringe dwellers,but we the PEOPLE,the majority.
nite all
Well, the three legged cat has gone to bed without the usual nightly plunge onto the keyboard, the really stupid chinchilla just sits on her perch, the polls look O.K. to me, Barack is about to be elected, the world is about to change, and that’s O.K. by me.
that may be the point but you’re deluded if you think Oppositions of any party will hold their tongue on an issue they think has the chance to get them back into government.
I recall at many stages last year people were defending the ALP for ‘not giving in to the Government’s wedge tactics’ (e.g. on the intervention, initial responses to the Haneef situation etc.) and acknowledging that the ALP would not be able to do anything from Opposition.
Just to balance the tide, Gerard Henderson attacks the ABC for perceived partisanship in favour of Barack Obama. Mind you, this is the same station that HSO believes is a mouthpiece for the Liberal Party:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/gerard-henderson/media-focus-more-fashion-than-facts/2008/11/03/1225560733790.html
GP, thanks for pointing out the article. Classic Henderson grump!
It is good to see that Gerard Henderson is on song with GOP plan B, which is to blame the media conspiracy and bias for when the GOPs lose. It beats having to take any accountability for the terrible legacy of 8 years of Bushism, the warmongering, the financial irresponsibility that Bush and GOP control of the Senate have generated.
The GOP has dragged the US into two wars, and pissed away $UStrillions while doing so. The GOP has has generated an additional 960,000 unemployed in the US this year. It has trashed the world’s economy. It has trashed the US economy. It has made it more, rather than less, difficult to get basic health cover. It has white-anted environment protection whenever possible. It has trashed multilateralism at evey corner. It was the prime obstacle to any genuine world progress on the one big thing. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So, what does the GOP do to improve its electoral prospects? It selects a VEEP candidate with such amazing policy depth that she can’t even understand such basics as the importance of funding for fruit fly research for biomedical progress. She appears to think that this is some pointy-headed, no- account, Washington-type spending boondoggle. She may not be as thick as George Dubblyuh Bush, worst pres ever, but she gives a damn good impersonation. She has not the faintest notion of foreign policy. She rattles sabres. She does not understand the basics of the role of the VEEP. She has demonstrated an ability to use power in an unethical manner. In a heartening sign that he is not going to let reality get in the way of his links with his rightwing GOP buddies, Sheridan thought that Palin’s selection as running mate was a ’stroke of genius’. Yep, Greg, you would not be wanting for material with her around as Pres! Good on Palini and good on Greg! Palin has done decency a favour by looking like the bizarre oddity she is. Why shouldn’t reporters be trying to save us from the GOP incompetents and the GOP know-nothings by reporting the truth? Good on them. (And, as Hendo rightly points out, they should have taken Biden to task for his nutty comment about Hezbollah in Lebanon).
BUT, BUT, BUT… As Henderson also points out, with the press, having sussed out Palin properly, and with the world more or less being trashed by the GOP, with the media conspiracy against the GOP… why is Obama only 5-6% ahead? Excellent question.
I trust that the know-nothing right-wing crazies of the GOP and their Aussie mates like Henderson and Sheridan will continue to blame media conspiracies on the one hand, and the horror of ‘celebrity’ politics on the other.
The longer they search for the ‘truth’ by putting their heads in the sand, the more time they will give to Obama to fix the humongous mess they have helped create.
Adam in Canberra @ 247 -
So GP, you expect us to believe that Howard enthusiatically supported a GST in 1993, changed his mind and opposed a GST in 1996 (thus accepting Keating’s arguments), and then changed his mind back again in 1998? Come along now. We all know that Howard doesn’t work that way. He’s a man of principle – he supported a GST consistently. He just chose to deny this fact to get himself elected PM in 1996.
It was the same story with Medibank/Medicare. Having helped killed off the first while Treasurer, for many years he promised to do the same to Medicare. Eventually the penny dropped that this was the biggest factor keeping him in opposition so he pretended to have had a change of heart and leading up to 1996 promised to keep it.
However, almost from the day he was elected he began killing off Medicare. Not by the direct frontal assault of the Fraser government, but by white-anting it piece by piece, a policy that accelerated in the latter years as Howard sought to force all but the most disadvantaged into private cover. I believe that had he won last year, Medicare would have ceased to exist as a universal system by the time Howard retired in 2009. At best, there would have remained only a token shell providing the most basic of services to social security recipients. We’ve been spared that this time, but no doubt it’ll be on the next LNP government agenda irrespective of whatever promises are made in opposition. Unlike Labor, the Libs are incapable of change.
Boewar, couldn’t agree with you more. Despite everything Bush has done to *&$% up the US and the world for the last 8 years, and the lowest approval ratings in living memory, Gerrard and the GOP blame the liberal media. Says it all really.
Great news about Bill Leak:
ARTIST Bill Leak is likely to return home today, 16 days after suffering injuries in a fall at the home of ad man John Singleton.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24598622-2702,00.html
Makes you wonder if he can see the huge hypocracy elephant defecating in the corner of his room, it is a wonder he can still ignore the stench. He has issues with a generally Obama friendly anti-GOP media in the USA but no issue with a strong anti-Labor anti-Rudd media bias in Australia. As though one is unfair and corrupting but the other not an issue at all.
So Henderson no doubt wants fair and balanced media treatment of a clearly failed GOP rule in the USA but the constant negative and dishonest media treatment of a 11 month Rudd in Australia is not an issue?
So when is media bias bias? Only when it is affecting neo-conservatives it seems.
Media bias is 90% in the eye of the beholder. The ABC-bashing from the left at this blog is just as silly as the “liberal media” bashing from the Repubs in the US. Venting about media bias is a waste of time and energy. The trick is to wean oneself off the mass media altogether, as I have largely done. I listen to RN briefly in the morning, and I flick through the Age, the SMH and the AFR at morning tea. Other than that I get all my news from the internet.
I find it ironic that The Age is now Australia’s most balanced paper.
Think there is a message for the Liberal Party and its remora media in the US scene.
Replace all that with Howard. LNP and Labor and we have something similar maybe.
Howard’s and the LNP’s nastiness culminating in Workchoices broke trust in the LNP. This loss of trust and the presentation of Rudd as the new political center (and as it turns out Mr Trustworthy) has maybe made the LNP impotent and their attempts along with their media to ’swift boat’ Rudd on a regular basis lacks bite because of this lack of trust in Turnbull and his party.
Certainly Rudd’s campaign was all on positives and very rarely moved to the negative whilst Howard and his media continually tried to smear Rudd.
The dilema now for the Liberal Party and the Murdoch media and ABC is that in a time of global economic gloominess people don’t want to hear negatives, carping and spitefulness. They want to hear the bitter truth but are more open to hope and positive messages, you would think. But it is a hard habit for conservatives to break since they have learned to live on a diet of hate. lies and spitefulness, it is their very nature.
The link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/nov/03/us-election-republicans-democrats-tomasky
The problem with bias is that it is hard to measure. Time exposure is flawed because it ignores tone. But even if tone is calulated it is an oversimplification. As a CNN reporter has said if one candiate says it is sunny outside and the other says it is raining, and it is sunny then it is their duty to point that out. Of course in practice, there is ambiguity in that.
The Gerard Henderson article is abit of a joke really. It is hypocritical at best presenting opinions as facts. Mentioning Obamas asociations while ignoring the fact of Mccains queastionable asocciasions. He uses lazy terms like “seems” and “flirts with” in the absense of facts and figures. He is perfectally entitled to, but when adressing an issue about journalistic integrity it seems foolish.
TP I don’t understand in the slightest how you get the impression that the ABC is biased. I suppose it says something that supporters of both parties consider the ABC biased against them.
Rserve Bank drops interest rates by 0.75% following on from 1% cut.
There is some very worried people for cuts of this size.
And meanwhile during this global financial crisis Turnbull and Bishop pursue Rudd over a phone conversation that never happened.
Kittens with wool, says it all
Yes, because there is a financial crisis noone should ask questions on any other topic. Democracy at work!
Are you seriously arguing the phone conversation never happened castle? Even Rudd isn’t denying there was a phone conversation.
FFS of course Rudd has conversations with world leaders. The Fibs must be desperate if they still have their trolls out on left leaning blogs trying to push this BS.
Must congratulate them though, they have taken over this supposed thread on ALP thrashing Fibs in polls and turned the thread into a rebuttal of their lies about Rudd.
one way to make sure any good news for ALP gets buried i suppose,,,, sorta like their ABC.
HSO – have been following your comments re ABC for awhile. I heartily agree especially RN. Larvatus Prodeo has a good bit on new ABC2 breakfast program and lots of comments there agreeing with you. Remember Antonio – he used to comment here during last K07 election.
Antonio was again cheering for the ABC – unfortunately some of the bloggers made more sense.
The constant diatribe straight from the Libs press releases is the lazy way for ABC journos. I don’t pay them my 8c.+ a day to just recycle opposition press releases.
Frank Kelly & Co haven’t yet worked out that Kev & Co are really favoured by most of us – even in a time of financial crisis.
They need to be reminded that we want much better than the ABC is presently giving us.
What good news for the ALP? This is a left leaning blog?
Yes I would’ve thought it was fairly obvious that Rudd had a conversation with Bush too, yet castle seems to think it was a: “a phone conversation that never happened”.
A fair lot of indignation just because someone has the gall to question the actions of the government or the spin of its supporters in trying to defend it.
I don’t play with trolls, starve them and the die is my motto
ltep. I can see where you might have got that impression but the impression I got from Castle’s comment was that they reported the conversation incorrectly, one that didn’t happen, not that A conversation didn’t take place.
This is my last comment on this BS. It really is a beat up.
Vera I remind you of the comment moderation guidelines:
“Talk about politics, not other commenters. This precludes any personal attack which fails to engage with the point the other person was making, however little value you personally might attach to that point.”
“A message to my friends on the left. In the immortal words of P.J. O’Rourke: “this ain’t no hippy commune”. The left consensus here does not mean that anyone who argues against it is a “troll”. Nor should you imagine that the moral superiority of your worldview entitles you to be abusive to those who don’t share it.”
Yes I think it’s been acknowledged they reported the conversation incorrectly. That’s immaterial. The material part of the debate is who provided the incorrect version of the conversation to the Australian. Was it made up entirely or was it provided by Rudd’s office? You believe it was made up entirely. I’m not so ready to jump to that conclusion and await confirmation from Rudd’s office that they did not provide the incorrect information.
And then you say –
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle
I haven’t called anyone a troll or been abusive. If I have I apologise and recognise it’s not conducive to adequate debate.
Vera, I do ask that you be economical with the T word. There is a thick line between debate and disruption, and LTEP’s efforts are well on the proper side of it.
The problem with this non-phone call leak malarky is that I doubt it has any purchase with the general public and in fact it might simply be highlighting a Rudd strength.
Another great problem with this attempted ’swift boating’ on Rudd is that the issue itself would be a non issue to the public. They wouldn’t care less if this was a leaked call or not, it is not an issue they care about. IMO
This is a bit like the Burke thing where the murdoch media and Howard were certain they had an issue to sink Rudd with and they all went hell for leather on it, exactly like they are doing with this non phone leak thing. The public didn’t give a toss, it wasn’t relevant to them. And if anything the public may have thought the media and the Liberals were being unfair and publicly beating a dead straw-horse.
This was a weak attempt at trying to put some smears on Rudd’s exceptional foreign affairs profile and an opportunity and excuse for the ABC to give the Liberals some free electioneering time.
But if they are not careful the Liberals and their supporters could end up doing the opposite – highlighting and strengthening Rudd’s high interntaional profile and tarnishing themselves as being cheap carpers with nothing of substance to talk about and, always being negative. And as usual Turnbull having no political accumen goes overboard again and wants a police investigation into a nothing affair. The man is a fool.
Yes there may be a bit of trolling going on with regard to this affair but that too highlights how little Liberal supporters have to go on in order to attack Rudd and how incompetent the Opposition is that this is the best they can come up with.
It will be interesting to see how the Murdoch media, the ABC and Liberal party will coordinate their attacks and smears on Rudd when he goes off to the USA shortly, at the invitation of Bush for the G20 meeting. You can guarantee now that The Australian and its sister papers will think of some smears on Rudd for going to this meeting.
It is almost predictable now that no matter what Rudd and Labor does these people will be finding a negative attack angle though they will as usual insert the occassional ‘positive’ article to have something to point to when people complain.
They seemed to have not learned anything. They have two years of experience and they also now have evidence from the USA on Obama. Repbulican style attack, smearing and negativity has little effect. And they have gotten so desperate now that they invent ‘facts’ to attack with.
The Liberal party have to wonder that if after two years of continuous attacks on Rudd by themsleves and alsmost the entire media has only done little damage they might be better advised to use new tactics. But the Liberal party being raised on hate and spite may be unable to break away from this nature.
Maybe another two years of attacking will reduce Labor to low poll figures, but you would have to wonder if the LNP don’t make themselves unelectable in the process as their true characters are revealed.
They get one part ridiculously wrong, then hammer that and when its shown to be utter rubbish move on to the next. Sorry but that’s just BS.
It’s entirely irrelevant whether it has any holding with the public or increases or decreases Rudd’s popularity.
Dario, the question is whether the journalist got it wrong or was provided with the incorrect information. You believe they got it wrong on their own, I’m not so sure. Again, it could be solved quickly by a press release saying no member of his staff provided those details to the paper.
There is good reason for the RBA to drop by 0.75%. The mere fact that they announced the decision on the same day rather than waited shows the urgency. Here is some of the first evidence of the financial crisis leading to a slowdown in demand and now in turn leading to a decline in demand for Australian resources:
http://business.smh.com.au/business/iron-ore-goes-from-boom-to-bust-20081103-5h22.html
This decision will not immediately cause unemployment in the mining sector, but the deays of unlimited growth are clearly over. There will also be an effect on State government revenues via less mining royalties. People will soon see just how lucky Howard was with the mining boom.
for god’s sake everybody get off the unicorn! the earlier blogging about this subject was just the minutist of splitting of hairs and was downright boring, at least i can admit i’m biased on a point and write it into my blog, if some are not being completely honest about what they are then ignore them, i really like GP theres no pretence with him and he flaunts his one eyed tendencies as do i, i’d ignore any blogger who i dont think is honest and is just stirring, it’s no good getting ones knickers in a knot.
And then the attacks of the Oz and their mate Turnbull will just move to the ‘handling’ of the whole ‘affair’. Why feed it when it’s already been shown to be a sham.
Oh, back on topic, 61-39 by the way…
Well I object to being called dishonest if it’s me you’re commenting on. I also object to any inference I am ‘one-eyed’. Just because you are biased an partisan doesn’t mean everyone else is.
To criticise someone’s integrity merely because they disagree with you is low. If you consider me or my comments boring there’s nothing that says you need to read it! Similarly there’s nothing that says you should feel the need to throw this sort of abuse out there.
Dario
from the liberals point of view ,this iss the “harrowing”
Dario @ 296: You think it’s a sham. Not everyone else does. I think the government’s obfuscation on the issue only serves to make it look like they were the ones who provided the details, including the incorrect material.
@ 297: I’ve already commented on the 61-39 back on the first page. It’s an excellent result, I’m not sure of the overall accuracy of ERM and don’t think it will be anywhere near that by the next election. It demonstrates a level of comfort the public has with the government and it’ll be interesting to see how events develop over the next year and a bit.
Dario, the ABC had a blog going from Helen Coonan demanding that Rudd should run an inquiry into the matter and apologise to Bush, the overwhelming consensus was that it was a rumour made up by the libs dirt machine and had no basis in fact and should be ignored, also a great many remembered and mentioned Howard’s unfortunate remarks about Obama who now looks very much like being the next American president, THAT WAS A MASSIVE BOO BOO, nuff said.
Well some people think Elvis is still alive, I’m not sure what it proves. The FACTS are that the story said Bush asked “What’s the G20?”, and that this was denied by both parties. The credibility of the entire story has been shot to hell as a result. It’s going nowhere.
It wouldn’t surprise me given it’s accuracy so far
Judith Barnes, exactly what was a rumour made up the the libs dirt machine? The entire story which detailed his conversation with Bush? If so, why doesn’t Rudd just say that?
Of course Howard’s remarks were ridiculous and only the most partisan Liberal would defend them. It was a sign of his arrogance. That, however, is completely irrelevant to this debate.
It’s not if the Libs are being hypocritical in this case by demanding Rudd apologise
Dario I’m not sure whether you’re deliberately misrepresenting the material issue here. That is, how did the Australian get the details of the conversation Rudd had with Bush? If the details were provided by Rudd’s office, were the incorrect details (that is Bush’s comments regarding the G20 summit) provided by the office?
Everyone agrees that Bush did not make those comments. That is not the issue here.
Dario, indeed the Liberals are being hypocritical. I don’t care about any apology, I just want to know who provided the information to the Australian. Like it or not it does affect the confidence other diplomats have that conversations with the Prime Minister will be kept private.
The simplest way to resolve it would just to be to announce that his office had no part in the release of details of the conversation. That would ensure the diplomatic community that there is nothing at issue here.
They are two totally different things.
Rudd leaked a conversation he had with the President of the USA.
Howard criticised Obama for his political position on Iraq….
Dario, i’ll be keen to see how next weeks newspoll compares with this poll, by balancing them together we should get a fair idea how the general public thinks the government is travelling, both Morgan and this one can give a bit of an outer at times by putting them all together we should get a reasonably accurate balance, outers pss me off a bit they can give unreasonable expectations.
He did more than criticise Obama’s position, he actively campaigned for one side in the US election.
No 305
So because Howard had a moment of insolence, that justifies Rudd’s leaky ship?
Those were the primaries not the US Presidential election.
Well the Liberals can hardly call for Rudd to apologise to Bush if they didn’t call for Howard to apologise to Obama. Unless they publicly state now that Howard ought to have apologised.
Rudd leaked a private conversation with the PTOUS that deserves an apology.
Howard expressed his opinions.
Big difference Itep.
No 314
I would agree.
Well it depends on whether the supposedly offensive comments were leaked by Rudd’s office or were made up by the newspaper. If they were made up then Rudd has nothing to apologise for really does he?
So if Rudd expressed an opinion that blood was on the hands of Bush for the killing of innocent Iraqi civilians would you think he should apologise for those comments?
Glen, now, now, your being a norty boy splitting hairs, actually what Howard said was by far just about the worse gaffe of any pollie since that dreadful remark about the congo line of suckholes–i still squirm about that one, especially from a labor leader, however if Obama is elected tomorrow and Howard had won the last election it would have been insupportable with American/Australian relations, that would have damaged us beyond repair.
Hypothetical question: if the world’s most powerful leader was dumb enough to ask “What’s the G20?”, should we, for national security reasons, be informed? I mean, what if the question were “Kevin, there’s a big red button in front of me. It’s flashing. It’s like a Texas slot machine. What do you reckon?”
(I’d want to know.)
I love it how the right-wing posters say, as if it were fact, that Rudd leaked it. Quite the amusement.
I don’t know Inner Westie. I don’t think so. The conversation was private so unless there was permission to divulge the contents of the discussion I don’t think ‘public interest’ claims can override confidentiality.
You’re right that it’s a hypothetical though. As both parties have denied he asked the question it actually makes it more important where this detail came from.
IW, i dont think anyone believes Bush is the brainiest president ever and in the last eight years he’s shown an appalling lack of nous, saying that, very few would by the greatest stretch of the imagination believe that he’d be dumb enough not to know what the G20 stood for, it would fit to call him a bloodthirsty warmonger indifferent to human suffering, just look at the execution rate in his home state, but this whole G20 garbage is just that, it’s an obvious ploy to damage Rudd not Bush.
Howard and the Liberals must apologise to Mr Obama and the Democrats for:
1) impugning them in a most abhorrent way;
2) partisan meddling in the internal political affairs of our close ally.
The apology should extend to Democratic Party supporters also, since his inference is that they are (by virtue of their voting preference) enablers of al-Qaeda.
His vile tirade was a thinly-masked attempt to intimidate the voters of the United States through typical right-wing smear and fear.
For those people claiming the whole incident is an Opposition beat-up, aided by their allies the Australian and the ABC (!)… does that also extend to Crikey?
http://www.crikey.com.au/Crikey-Says/20081027-Crikey-says.html
http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20081103-What-does-the-G20-giggle-say-about-Kevin-Rudd.html
Say it was true? Does Talcum think anyone here cares?
Australians couldn’t give a crap about Bush, or are already entirely negative about him. Why are the Libs banging on about it? It only makes the PM look gold!
Lesson one: oppositions should attack on fronts likely to gain votes, not lose them.
Clueless gets.
Cuppa, i cant ever remember any Australian Prime Minister making such a bad partisan intrusion into another county’s political workings in the past, i know that Howard other than his palling up with Bush was perhaps the worse PM we ever had on foreign affairs, Downer was bad enough as foreign minister but even though he was a bumbler he would never have gone that far, all we can do is thank the powers that be that Howard was ousted at the last election, could you just imagine the gritted teeth of the Americans everytime Howard went over there with Obama as president.
We’re in the middle of a global financial crisis and heading for a global recession, the US is about to elect a new president, the icecaps are melting, the Murray is running dry – no-one gives a flying f*ck about Bush, or whether he knows what the G20 is (who does know?), or whether he said he did or he didn’t, or whether someone told the Australian (which is notorious for making things up, and which no-one reads anyway) that he did. This is a total non-story, and if Turnbull thinks anyone gives a stuff about it then he is living on some other planet. Can we move on?
Glen, you know perfectly well it was not that Howard criticised Obama’s position on Iraq, but that he did it by saying Obama would be the preferred candidate of a group that caused the biggest peace-time loss of life in his country. You are just being disingenuous.
Who cares? Maybe foreign diplomats?
Comments #310 to #316: Itep, GP, Glen, Itep, Glen, GP, Itep… a circle-jerk of momentous proportions.
And they all claim not to be anti-Rudd and/or Liberal voters.
It’s obscene, I tell ya.
Judith at 325, I agree it was such a low act it took a real rat to go down that far.
As Piping Shrike said in 327, invoking the name of an illegal extremist outfit that has caused incalculable pain and suffering to the people of America, and associating them with a legitimate political party doing nothing more than exercising their right to nominate candidates and contest elections, is not much short of pure evil, in my opinion.
I see similarities between Howard’s egregious, unprovoked attack and the Lindsay leaflet scandal of election week 07. Both tried to draw an association between legitimate political parties and islamic extremists.
The only difference is that Howard’s outburst was deliberately public and never retracted; the Lindsay operation was covert and quickly denounced by the Liberals.
Adam @ 326 and BB @ 329 – between you, you have summed up the whole purported leaking of meaninless conversations perfectly. The only problem that I now have is do I refer to the whole matter as ‘G20 gate’ or (and I am not treferring to pollbludgers here, certain politicians) ‘Circle jerk gate’?
Tom.
Should read …but certain politicians.
Interest rates going down by 3/4% will be more newsworthy than phonegate.
But, hey it’s news – and it’s up to Rudd and Co to deal with it. If they can’t then they’re not much good are they – especially with Bishop, Coonan and Turnbull going way over the top.
Obviously it’ll be first question on Monday.
And to be honest, politically I think this plays into Rudd’s hands. It’s trivial for most voters, and won’t change a vote (even if it may be bad diplomatically – which I also think has been way overestimated).
My summary – Rudd needs a Leo McGarry.
Very tasteful Bushfire Bill. Your maturity is astounding.
The thing most of you seem to avoid is that not all issues are political footballs. There are greater principals than whether it causes popularity to drop in opinion polls. What should concern people is adequate governance of the country.
For a government that has promised increased transparency it’s sorely lacking in this case. If, as you say, noone cares about the issue then there’d be no problem fully disclosing whether the office provided any details to the newspaper. That would fulfil their promise to transparency and not damage them politically at all.
Grog, what gives you the impression that the diplomatic issue has been overestimated? Remember our very own DFAT had a file on Helen Clark (NZ PM) which called her a control freak etc. This kind of thing would be something to go on Rudd’s file, that his office potentially leaked details of a private conversation to the press and spun it to make him look good. I agree in the entirety of things (and for the duration of the Rudd Government) it will not be a huge issue. That doesn’t mean the Government should be free from criticism on the issue, like some people here seem to suggest.
Gee ltep, you would have been really useful around the time of children overboard.
Even better, the AWB scandal needed your terrier like interrogations.
You’re a decade late mate.
Children overboard was a disgrace and the Rudd Government are to be congratulated for introducing the Code of Conduct for Ministerial Staff.
Of course compared to AWB and Children Overboard (and numerous other Howard Government ‘episodes’) this is nothing. That doesn’t mean it should be free from criticism though.
If it happened.
Since no new evidence has come to light, let’s take a hiatus on this topic. Seem to be going around in circles. Jerk or not.
Their refusal to be open and transparent happened. I’ve got nothing else to add but will respond to any ridiculous comments for as long as Mr Bowe permits.
Itep, this is absolutely the last thing I will say on the topic of the Rudd/Bush conversation. Mitchell, editor of the O.O. was a guest that night. Rudd/Bush were on speaker phone. I’d have thought it pretty obvious where the story came from, and pretty obvious Mitchell might be waiting some time for another invitation.
The point I was making about the ABC was not about disagreeing with criticism of the government, but lack of critical analysis and simply picking up whatever the O.O. was running. I’m not the only person to have noted the direction taken by the ABC. I know it’s only anecdotal, but today was at a Cup BBQ locally, but with people from all parts of Vic. Apart from the races, and catching up about family, the two main topics were what total c%#p Turnbull is and whatever has happened to the ABC. Now this was not your usual lefty mob. There were folk there who are worth big bucks, advertising types, business people. Make of that what you will.
As Adam in Canberra points out, however, there is an international financial crisis going on and still the polls remain unmoving for Malcolm.
because of you later point:
No I agree there has been a severe lapse in the quality of reporting on the ABC and an almost paranoid culture of ensuring they are not perceived to be biased against the Liberal Party. One wishes they’d just have a bit of testicular fortitude.
I won’t comment on the rest because it’d just be retreading old ground. We’ll agree to disagree on the principals of the matter.
I must add that I’ve had 0 problems with the management of the specific story by the ABC. There’s not much leeway to be balanced on the story when the Government aren’t being open about it and there’s really only been 2/3 stories on it in total that I’ve seen.
Oh Dear, the Commonwealth Bank is cruising for a bruising.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/
Long time reader but first post so please be gentle… have been keeping tabs on OO breaking news and no mention at all of ‘phonegate’ for past few hours – IMO Mitchell was the one big noting himself. Scenario is that he gets back from dinner at Lodge and phones journo Franklin to brief him on phone call overheard (who knows, he may have had glass up against the door to listen in) and having had a few red wines got carried away with the retelling and Franklin faithfully reproduced what his boss told him (after all he is editor) and the rest is history … Rudd is protecting Mitchell because (as you would probably be aware) Rudd is the godfather of Mitchell’s son and doesn’t want Mitchell to be in the poo with Murdoch. Also OO will owe Rudd one in the future because he took the flack for Mitchell.
Welcome us. It’s an interesting theory, and given the accuracy of the report anything is possible.
Bugger that! Listen China, round here you take your knocks and smile… and making intelligent, interesting posts like you have will only serve to get you respect. And you don’t want that!
Have to say it’s been interesting that the running on this story has been more the Daily T and Bolt in the Herald. The Oz has been pretty low key…
Well, yeah, entre nous @ 344. I’ve been pointing to that for days. FFS. Welcome, BTW. It’s just that we’re b@#$%^&ds.
Harry
stop being such a softie
Grog @346, and a nice little outing tonight on PM with some supposed diplomat expert, whom I’d not heard of before, saying Rudd had stuffed up big time, would probably never be trusted again internationally, certainly not in the U.S. You get the picture.
I missed it HSO… the story is nowhere on the ABC website.
Saw this on the PM website from yesterday:
Grog
its here on smh soon to appear on abc online
“Retired Australian diplomat Bruce Haig said that while there was unlikely to be any long-term damage from the incident, the government had been slow to manage the “diplomatic gaffe”.”
http://news.smh.com.au/national/bushrudd-phone-call-leak-amateurish-20081104-5hnp.html
Well, there you go, grog. The PMs been hanging out with ne’erdowells, such as Mitchell, being godfather to one of his children, asking Joe Hockey to his daughter’s wedding, being nice to Mr. Howard when he lost the election and had to move out of Kirribili House – take your time, he said.
Clearly the man has no judgment, and the people being polled have none either.
So it was Bruce Haigh on PM?
Yes.
I could be naive, but I can’t believe Rudd, or his office to be so amateurish. His office and he denied the story three times, in unequivocal terms, over a week. What is going on here?
I really think Mitchell has been the problem. That rings true.
So unlikley to be any long term damage, but also a disaster. Hokay.
Well if it was someone in Rudd’s office, time to fall on the sword I think. If not, not. I very much doubt Rudd himself would have leaked the G20 line. As I have said he may have said it jokingly in private, but I doubt he would say “yeah you can publish that”. -Why would he? It makes no sense.
gary
the salient point in all of this is :
who ran with it. and why.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a cadre exists to frustrate rather than inform.
the same names seem to appear time and time again.
I think it is essential the Government shut down the ABC in its current form as it is obvious a bunch of Liberal party hacks have taken it over and are out of control, corrupting it into the promotional arm of the Liberal party.
Either dissolve the board, implement another arrangement or simply split the ABC into two arms and put all the Liberal party hacks into kids programs. Get a bunch of academics or whatever on a panel to appoint new management and set up a new standard of behavior and accountability on its reporting and content. And soon.
The other job the Government will have to undertake in this term or probably next is a total split up of the Murdoch media in Australia. Such media ownership concentration in a small market simply leads to the corruption of democracy and they have abused it to the hilt. Murdoch and all foreigners should be allowed to own no more than one paper/media outlet and to own more than one need to be an Australian citizen.
On another issue I noted that Bishop did not take the opportunity to repudiate Howard’s attack on Obama the other day when asked about it. She instead simply moved it to the current trivial issue as though the Howard government’s trashing of the likely next President and the Democrats was nothing to do with her. She was allowed to easily move away from this issue.
But you would have thought that this is the most important issue of all. The Liberal Party’s refusal to repudiate what it said of Obama and the Democrats. It is simply astounding that they don’t feel that they have to and the media don’t think it is important.
Yeah, Mitchell, for one. Maybe the PM should have a bit of a think about who he has around for drinks.
Keep your friends close…
Yep, agree Thomas Paine. However, what’s beginning to trouble me is, is Rudd too close to the likes of people such as Mitchell, and indeed Murdoch?
actually harry
mitchell is ahem quite reasonable-my thinking steers more to milne etc and their band of syncophants among the other MSM organs
This google link relates to all stories on the beat up-instructive as to who is reporting it.
I’ll let you draw your own conclusions
http://news.google.com.au/nwshp?rls=ig&hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1265559156&topic=h
Here’s Bruce Haigh (also here), with optional ‘h’ at the end of his name. He’s one of those commentators the ABC keep in a cupboard and pull out every several months (quite a few hits on the ABC site); done a lot of stuff, and since he retired he’s been growing olives near Mudgee, not liking the Howard government, and running against them as a low-scoring independent in Gwydir / Parkes in the 2001, 2004 and 2007 elections. Seems to be more anti-government than anything… see him having a go at Alexander Downer about East Timor back in 1999 here.
Oops, last link should be:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s51945.htm
Oh geez TP, c’mon Ferrevanti-welles practically kept a full-time office going when the Libs were in power finding “biases” against Howard and Co.
I agree their web site seems to always go with a Liberal viewpoint first – and today on the radio the story on interest rates being dropped was followed by “the opposition believes banks should pass on the full cut”, and yes AM and LL always seems to be interviewing Bishop or Abbott or Turnbull … ok you have a bit of a point!
But the ABC ain’t meant to be Pravda. Rudd is a big boy; he should be able to handle it.
Plus I like the “Cook and the Chef”.
Thing about ABC coverage is Bruce Haigh gets to weigh in to debate but no other diplomat is sought out who may have a different take on the story and give opposing view as in “no damage done, as you were – this is a bit of a gaffe but there you go”. Nup, just Bruce, retired diplomat and commentator on call who claims that all gravitas is out the window and KMR may as well stay at home because he’s cruelled his appearance at G20.
Yep, Dario, but what damage do they cause along the way, as they intend to take you down, any way they can? Rupert, and his minion, Mitchell, intend only to continue their power. Damaging Rudd and the government internationally, if that is their intent, is risky business.
363 – it’s interesting how lazy news services are – so many repeated sentences… noticed on Bolt’s blog how he points out a line in the London Times about reports that the leak may have come from Rudd himself, as though that proves it – when in fact Bolt was the one suggesting it – see! they quote me in another paper, therefore it is now fact!!
and as predicted at 351 here is the ABC version
NB the subtle rewrite of the intro/header
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/04/2410316.htm?section=justin
“Govt’s handling of G20 leak ‘immature’”
Haigh does speak some sense:
Well said, entre nous. You’re really very promising. This from what my son describes as a bar fly, however.
Yep wil be interesting to see what happens there – no doubt the media will look for anything as a sign of being frozen out. sigh
Yep, I said that would be the next mode of attack once the comment itself had been disproved
Well, wee bludgers, tomorrow marks another day, and the changing of the guard in the U.S., and may I never hear another thing about what Dubbya said to Kev, ever.
Geez, the Essential Research numbers cheer me up. 61! Whoo Hoo!
Last gripe for tonight is about Chris Uhlman on AM this morning commenting that lucky for gov. that Melbourne Cup, USA elections and Reserve bank meeting were all happening because they were events that served as smokescreens for ‘phonegate’. Uhlman is a good operator but has a dark side occasionally – he had some good press after his coverage of the election and I’m wondering whether it might have gone to his head just a little ….
Ullman is just a stooge
Goodness me gentlemen, are you still squawking about the ABC?! Get over it!
No 376
Phonegate is a national disgrace and Kevin Rudd should be ashamed.
GP
I’ll bite.
I couldnt agree more
1.The acts of near treason by certain elements of the MSM are, to quote you GP,”a national disgrace”
2.The pm,once again quoting you GP, “should be ashamed” that the MSM is still beholden to its myopic view and its obvious infatuation with every utterance by a liberal stoolie.
have a nice night GP
Your comments are obscene GP
Now we’re getting down to it – ‘phonegate’ has always been about attempting to sabotage Rudd at the G20. As for our ABC there’s a good chance (hopefully) they’ve copped a bit of flack for their coverage and are now desperate for vindication. “We will decide who’s coming onto our show” A might vindictive.
I agree with Mr Haigh entirely on the issue. The Government’s response has been terrible. The Opposition’s ‘attacks’ have been on one hand like hitting them with limp lettuce and on the other hand over the top and unbelievable (getting the AFP involved… a ‘national security’ issue… really?) If anything it’s further evidence Julie Bishop and Coonan needs to be sacked as ineffective.
The ABC’s handling of the issue has been fine and I’m hoping they rise above the petty criticism directed at them by thin-skinned government supporters who cannot handle any questioning. I honestly can’t believe there’s people here calling for the ABC to be shut down. I thought that lunacy was merely in the realms of the Liberal Party.
ltep @ 383, Rudd has stated, more than once, that Bush did not say what was quoted in the OO and subsequently by the Albrechtsen Broadcasting Corporation. What part of that statement do you and the other shrill LNP hacks not understand? The fact that the conversation was not correctly quoted would point to the fact that either a) a conversation did take place, but not as reported or b)the purported conversation did not take place. Rudd has stated that a conversation did take place, but not as it was reported. End of story.
Tom
It’s not the end of the story and just repeating that won’t make it so. Your b) is not true. Noone has denied the conversation took place. Your a) is more likely. The material issue is who provided the version of events to the Australian. That is, who provided the details of the conversation to the Australian. Did that person also indicate that Bush asked what the G20 was? What part of that don’t you understand? It’s really quite simple.
Another uplifting article by La Stupenda beginning with the cheery words:
followed by a litany of levity, with phrases such as,
It seems like a little competition La Stupenda is having with herself to see how many hopeful words she can cram into just 372 words.
372 words?
You wonder why she bothers.
But there’s a cheery sign-off to the piece where Michelle tells us:
So, we need more confidence. Fat chance of the old boiler giving us that as she talks down the economy, while lamenting that it’s being talked down.
And her last brilliant political observation is that this could affect Rudd’s chances at the next election, as the community turns on him. Absolutely brilliant, La Stupenda, absolutely brilliant. It’s almost as good as one her her classics when she breathlessly told us that Rudd could profit greatly from the fall in petrol prices, or not at all, or somewhere in-between. What a savant is our Michelle.
I can now see why Grattan is paid so much.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/pm-preparing-us-all-for-the-worst-20081104-5hqp.html
BB usually i dont mind Grattan so much, when you compare her to the likes of Bolt, Milne, Shanahan, Albrechson and Akerman it puts her into perspective, look if Turnbull and co can talk the economy into a recession they’ll do so, it looks like their only hope, slim as it is of them getting into power over the next 8-10 years, in the pastTurnbull has shown his mantra of whatever it takes is a priority for him, to hell who or what he tramples on, the man’s supreme egoism is starting to show and people are taking notice as his personal fall in the polls is showing, most of my lib pals have turned off him completely, we cant debate any longer because they wont defend him, –bugga there goes some of the fun at our barbies sigh, oh well, back to the football rivaliries, anyway back to the subject, the general public, thanks to the constant newscasts, are quite aware that country’s are falling into recessions like dominos, if Rudd can steer us into a reasonably soft landing with a very minor recession under the circumstances he’ll be labled a hero.
Turnbulls personal popularity has really changed only in a minor way in the polls. This poll actually shows an 8% improvement in preferred PM for Turnbull.
I also don’t know if I agree Rudd will be labelled a ‘hero’ if we slip into recession, minor or not. People are just not rational like that. Evidence? People thought Howard could keep interest rates low in the ‘04 election.
Unless your focusing on the polling in regard to the leader best able to handle the economy. Turnbull has fallen in that quite susbtantially in the past few weeks, which is probably quite important to focus on.
*tumbleweed*
i’ve spent the day glued to the telly watching history being made with Obama, i dont understand the American voting system enough but it was rivetting, a spokeswoman for the American ambassador was asked about the so called leak, she said both the PM’s office and the White House have denied it happened and therefore it was a non event, hmmm no good Turnbull keeping on beating that drum, madame Bishop has come out and said theres no reason the budget should go into deficit to save the economy, well we all know what a great financial genious and brilliant brain she is!
Noone has denied any leak to my knowledge.
let it go ltep
Swan on 7 30 report still thinks we can avoid a recession, i sincerely hope so, surprise, surprise, the opposition has been out and about claiming if the budget goes into deficit or we do have a recession it was caused by the government’s mismanagement of the economy, gosh Rudd and Swan are powerful to have caused a worldwide economical meltdown.
They must be aware, even as they are mouthing that nonsense, that they look foolish and lack credibility. The indignities they have to stoop to in opposition. LOL
Obama did better than all Democrats since Carter with White voters despite only getting 44% of them… shows how much the Dems have struggled there in recent times
doh, wrong thread
Good to see Turnbull continuing to follow the path of least credibility.
What is he saying is akin to saying that if somebody gets wet during a tropical cyclone its the fault of the umbrella maker.
The world has just had a very public dose of economic salts, the subject of news since before the election, it will be very firmly in people’s minds what the cause of all this is.
Time to give the kittens a new ball of wool to play with, they have such a short attention span.
Can Turnbull last until the election?
Nelson is starting to look way better, at least he had some credibility
pmsl Dario, a mistake easily made, i’ve been wondering how long it will be before we’re grown up enough to elect an indiginous PM, i’d love to be around to see it, America has broken some glass ceilings with making Condaleeza Rice one of the most powerful women in the world.
Turnbull trashes his own reputation everytime he opens his mouth, i’m sure Nelson and Cozzie decided to just sit back and let him implode, have a good look at him next time he’s on telly, my grandy asked me if he was looking balder in the front because he’s pulling his hair out, i had a good look and he is looking greyer and more hairless than he was a few months ago, maybe opposition leader isnt all he thought it would be.
With Aboriginals making up only 1% of the population its a lot less likely than the US. The talent pool is just so much smaller than AA’s over there.
Castle, the only thing that would keep Turnbull as opposition leader till the election is the pathetic lack of talent in the opposition’s ranks, just imagine Coonan, or Abbott, or even Pyne as leader, i know Pyne is such a shrinking violet he really fancies himself at the dispatch box, it’s enough to give you nightmares, those old workhorses that have been in for years and years should do the right thing by the party and fall on their swords and let some new vigorous blood in.
Dario i realise that but it doesnt stop me dreaming, the treatment of our first people over the years has been disgraceful, i like Rudd’s idea of giving them scolarships, education will eventually be the deciding factor.
Even though it removes them from their people and communities?
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/11/05/2411353.htm
heres the turnbull link.
Has Ken Henry done this before? Why not Chris Bowen?
I agree. Maybe one day, but not any time soon.
That’s because Swan will be overseas
Department heads hold press conferences from time to time. The important thing is that they only speak to explain policy rather than to make political points and provide opinion.
I know Swan is off for the G20 – is Bowen going as well?
Grog i could be wrong but i think i heard that he was accompanying Swan.
Henry has been most impressive in the past, look how he took the eight hour senate grilling in his stride, he’s been head of treasury for years and i’m sure he knows damned more about the economy than Cossie, Swan, Bowen all together, he has more info in his little finger than just about all the economists in OZ, it’ll probably be a better conference without all the political spin, i’m sure he’ll say it as it is.
Could also make some changes thus:
TP, very much to the point lol.
g’night folks, this little rubber ducky’s had one hell of a fortnight including ch9 today so i’m going to pull the covers over my head and let the rest of the world go by, Obama winning the presidency was nearly as good as Rudd’s election.
TP, the explanation was given by Turnbull. The ABC just reported it.
Itep, the ABC goes out of their way to report every trivial, trumped-up piece of hogwash the Libs come up with. Any Lib will do, they get equal time as if they were really an alternative government, which they clearly are not. They are a rabble, a bunch of carnival barkers, shouting out inanities from the sidelines to try to get the public’s attention. Their mates at the ABC – and a few others in the media – just can’t get used to the fact that there was a changeover of power a year ago.
When I heard Virginia Trioli explain ABC policy on Sydney radio last year as putting the (the Liberal) government’s case in their absence, whether they turned up to the studio or not, I gave up on the ABC as fair reporters of what’s going on. They clearly do not put the Labor government’s case as generously, in their absence or otherwise.
It’s the prominence the ABC gives to any wild utterance by the Opposition, as if anything they say – as the “Alternative Government” of course – was a damning case that needed to be answered, and quickly, that irks me. In other quarters, your own statement this week that you believed the recent non-story about the leaked phone call to Bush was trumped up and false, but warranted investigation anyway was a perfect example of this crackpot idea from another source.
Your lot (and please don’t try to deny you’re a Lib supporter, that’s too funny) will not get back into power by cheap tricks and free publicity for your crazy ideas from the media. You’ll have to re-build from the ground up. you’ve lost most of your top performers to retirement (round up the usual suspects) and have a carnival barker in charge instead, with a collection of second rate circus freaks running around after him yelling “Me too! Me too!”. That is no substitute for policy or performance, which there is precious little of in any case, if the last two years of crushing poll figures are to be believed. The Libs at the moment are all smoke and mirrors, and to think that the Rudd government is a “oncer” is delusion on a grand scale.
I repeat again I’m not a Liberal supporter and will do so any time someone tries to make the silly assertion. I’ve never made the statement the Government is a ‘oncer’ because there’s absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.
I don’t want to go back into ‘phonegate’ again really but would say it doesn’t warrant ‘investigation’ insofar as an AFP investigation (the idea of which is ridiculous), but still think it’s a legitimate story to which questions remain unanswered. Whether the ABC or any other news source considers it newsworthy is entirely up to them. Again, I repeat I never stated that I believed the story (and it was a story) was either trumped up or false, just that it wouldn’t particularly surprise me. That doesn’t mean there is any evidence that the story was trumped up or false. Media should make their stories based on evidence rather than beliefs. Is there any evidence the Government did not provide the information to the Australian? No. So it’s still an issue to which legitimate questions can be raised.
The job of the ABC is not to ‘put the Government’s case’ or indeed to put the Opposition’s case. It’s to report on events, comments, stories as they happen. That is the true measure of impartiality. It’s not to put positions unprovoked. If the ABC seeks answers to particular questions and the Government declines to comment then that’s the end of the Government’s contribution to the story.
As an aside the Liberals have not lost any top performers to retirement. They have no performers to begin with so there’s nothing to lose.
BB,the last 12 years or so the ABC board has been loaded with fanatical liberals, Windshuttle, Albrechson and their ilk, the sooner that Rudd brings in his independant selection comittee the better, Howard used the ABC
sorry pressed the button too soon—Howard used the ABC board appointments as a reward for his most ardent followers.
I certainly see no reason why the entire board could not be dissolved and then the entire board appointed through the new process. If there are any current members of the board who meet the standards then they can be reappointed. Ms Albrechtson of course does not belong on the board.
Whilst there are problems with the new appointments process it’s better than Mr Howard’s Christmas card list, as the Minister would say.
Good old Howard! His action in attempting to take partisan control of the national broadcaster comes from a long historical tradition. It’s the sort of thing you’d expect from a Suharto, Lee Kwan Yew, Ferdinand Marcos, or even, gulp, Goebbbels.
The ABC is a bit screwed but I think the problem is systemic rather than the bias of whoever is news editor.
Because the Libs jumped up and down whenever they weren’t mentioned in relation to every single story on the news, they always managed to haul in the management and accuse them of bias again and again. The ABC management shouldn’t be responsible to the Government or any political party. Yes it’s a public broadcaster but that means it gets its money from the taxpayer not that it’s the mouthpiece of political parties.
So the ABC’s sick of getting grilled both in parliamentary committees and accused of bias in the public and they figure it’s better to be safe than sorry. That’s why we get what we perceive as lopsided coverage of events because every time the government says something they have to get a Liberal to say something as well. Regardless of the fact that one side is the actual Government and regardless of the fact that it’s not election time.
An example of the Liberals being upset at “bias” was when they accused the producer of Q&A of stacking the audience pro-Labor. They said the audience had more Labor voters than Liberal voters. So they wanted it to be even. On what basis? By party membership? I highly doubt party membership in Australia is even amongst Liberal and Labor and even then what about the other parties? By parliamentary representation? The parliament is not 50/50 Labor/Liberal. By popular vote? Again, not 50/50. So regardless of what the make up of the population is they believe that they, as a political party, deserve equal representation. Now on that logic every single party should be given equal representation, again regardless of their membership, vote or representation.
But that won’t ever happen. Because while the Libs are paranoid dropkicks still scared of reds under the bed, they have a fair amount of political clout and can keep putting pressure on the ABC.
i still think the libs are aided and abetted by Howards salting of the board, they have the power to put pressure on the programmers, it would be a brave producer to ignore the board directive.
Rudd has gone out of his way not to rock the boat and to keep the public servants in their field– including Howard’s appointments, unlike Howard’s paranoid night of the long knives, that gives even more importance to Rudd ,as soon as he came to power, announcing the ABC board will be chosen by a completely independant comittee made up of broadcasting experts, now Rudd must have had a very good reason to do that, it goes against all of his other actions.
the ABC refused to show or have anything to do with a couple of programs that may have shown Howards government in a negative light and what about that political book they commissioned and then refused to have printed.
The stupid thing about the Q&A thing was that the Liberal Party also wouldn’t listen to reason that the ABC had taken all reasonable steps to get Liberal people to attend the audience. If the Libs can’t be bothered rounded up enough hacks to attend that’s their problem.
Judith Barnes, you say it’s an independent committee, but the committee is selected by the Minister, reports to the Minister (privately) and the Minister is not obliged to listen to the board’s recommendation. Again, I think it’s better than Howard’s Christmas card list, but there’s still a way to go and a few wrinkles to iron out.
at last some positive news, while the full effects of the meltdown still has to filter through, if it goes no further then we can cope with that, Tanner is well known not to gild the lily so it looks like we may be getting a reasonably soft landing in comparison to other countries, things will probably be tight for another year or so, but its better than what we were bracing for, if Tanner’s right Turnbull’s going to hate this news.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/11/06/2411722.htm
Given the unpredictable nature of the crisis I think Tanner spoke a bit too soon. I hope he’s right though.
Unemployment figures stable:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/06/2411897.htm
Very good news amongst all the gloom
ltep, as there is no evidence to suggest that you were not involved in the Bali bombings does that means you should be executed with the rest of the bombers?
Based upon your logic you should be. Your argument has as much credibility as the the story has substance. NIL.
Absolutely laughable.
Tom.
Good news, true, but the write-ups this morning and yesterday of what might be in those unemployment figures were astoundingly pessimistic. For example, La Stupenda, Grattan, just about had us all on dole queues and eating in soup kitchens by next Tuesday.
Many stories started out like, “With unemployment figures expected to blow out tomorrow/this morning…. etc.”.
And NOTHING_EFFING_HAPPENED after all!
The journos all talk about “loss of confidence” but seem to think it’s only other people who cause it with their negativism. It’s not. We all have to pulll together and tell the truth… not fairy tales about living happily ever after, nor ghost stories about how we’re already rooned. The journos should keep their pessimism to themselves and try to help, not hinder.
Judith Barnes @ 424 Yes, well we all hope Tanner is ‘right’. Whether or not Turnbull ‘hate(s) this news’ does not matter.
Tom, the analogy you use is ridiculous. This is not a criminal matter, it is one of transparency and honesty in government. Of course, should a paper print that story I would quickly deny I had any part in the bombings. Rudd’s office, on the other hand has not denied they are the source of the story even when asked directly. If someone asks a direct question and the answerer avoids the question it leads rational minds to wonder why they won’t just answer the question. Two easy questions: Mr Rudd, did your office provide details of a conversation with the US President to the Australian? If so, did your office also tell the Australian that Bush did not know what the G20 is?
Those questions should be easy to answer if the Government has done nothing wrong. “No and not applicable.” Why can’t they do that?
Interesting observation by one USA commentator yesterday about Obama staying on message and refusing to be drawn into the minutiae favoured by many political commentators and media outlets. Meanwhile our media continue to scrabble over trivia like cockroaches over crumbs. Rudd seems to be applying Obama’s method with ‘phonegate’. Will there come a time when this will force the media to respond to issues with more depth and insight?
Not likely. It takes far more effort to do that for not much better ratings or readership numbers.
No surprises that the media is trying to put a negative slant on the job figures… now carrying on about it being the highest rise in part time jobs in 7 years. It’s as if they want a recession…
c’mon Dario, the meeja {excepting for a couple of honest journos} are the libs cheer squad, it still hasnt sunk in that the libs lost the election yet and a lot of them lost their cherished positions of being on the Howard favourites list and therefore getting all the scoops.
warning: dog with bone following
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24607080-5001031,00.html
“This account, if true, and The Australian has not found it necessary to publish anything to counter the initial report, would indicate that the oafs, if not the barbarians, are well and truly ensconced in Kirribilli House.”
finally the nub of the matter
I read ‘by Piers Akerman’ and stopped reading.
ltep – you should read that article by Akerman. You have a great deal in common with him on this matter. Talk about dog and bone.
thanks ltep you saved me clicking on the link.
I’m stunned he didn’t mention Heiner. What a fat, pathetic excuse for a human being.
Yes Gary, I’m just jealous that I’m not so eloquent.
Bushfire Bill @ 429 -
Many stories started out like, “With unemployment figures expected to blow out tomorrow/this morning…. etc.”.
And NOTHING_EFFING_HAPPENED after all!
It was much the same with the previous month’s when unemployment as measured by the numbers on the dole hit record lows. As Craig James from CommSec said a month ago:
“The number of people filing for unemployment benefits in Australia hit record lows in September. Didn’t hear about it? That’s because the media chose not to report it. The data released by the Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations last week showed that there were just under 284,000 people claiming unemployment benefits – the lowest level in a data series going back over 20 years.”
Indeed, about the only place where it was reported was here:
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2008/10/no-economist-can-explain-whats.html#links
The MSM said very little about it when the figured were released (or since). Guess it didn’t accord with the “OMG – We’re all rooned” spin that seems to get woven into nearly every story with even the most tenuous economy link.
His writings are as venomous as any cane toad.
And based on Liberal-logic, it also proves that halting WorkChoices reduces unemployment. Right?
Hmm, so the news “services” could hardly bring themselves to mention the news of record low unemployment numbers.
How things have changed with a changing of the guard in Canberra. I recall the Howard years (when unemployment was higher than it has been under this Labor government) the media regularly gushing forth with happy headlines such as
and chorus-like commentators devoting countless column-inches to regurgitating Liberal Party Talking Points about “strong economic management.”
____________
*usually referring to a time in the 1970s when Mr Whitlam was PM
Unemployment in WA is down from 2.9 per cent to 2.2 per cent.
William
I’m waiting for the Liberals to claim that figure as a success of the new Liberal government in that state. I reckon they’d be brazen enough to try it.
Of course, if they do, logcially they accept that the record-low unemployment experienced across the country for the last several years has all been due to “wall-to-wall State Labor governments.”
Imagine if Alan Carpenter had waited a few months and gone to the election on the back of that.
sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, they’re right on cue, you could just about set the clock by them.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/11/06/2412483.htm
and i bet Newsltd is wondering why!
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/11/06/2412345.htm
Mind you, he’s lucky not to be in charge now, considering the “Belt Tightening” by Buswell
Apparently the government is deferring it’s “aspirational” abolition of the top tax rate. I didn’t even know that was a policy. It’s allowed them to boost next years budget surplus forecast from $700million to $6.7 billion.
I assume the Libs will go to town with this tomorrow, but I don’t think they’ll get very far with the public considering it’s the top tax rate.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-08/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10541541
Two polls in NZ.
National 13 points and 12 points in the lead.
TV3 Poll has National up 1 to 46 and Labour down 4.3 to 33.1.
Greens still riding high at 9 percent in both polls.
Channel Ten News reports corruption charges laid against Brian Burke and Julian Grill.
And Norm Marlborough besides. Burke and Grill charged with corruption; Burke and Marlborough with false testimony. Charges relate to Smiths Beach and the pearling industry.
And who was the Busselton Shire President at the time ?
Mr Barnett should be VERY wary getting stuck into Labor, as it may rebound on his Treasurer
As well as Burke’s Business Associate, a Certain Mr Crichton-Browne
I think it might be a good thing for WA Labor that they aren’t in government at present. The Tories have a nasty habit of having inquiries come back to bite them and this should be the greatest entertainment for the next 18 months or two years.
I think that cancels out the unemployment figures.
Bit of a weird coincidence that earlier today I was watching an episode of The Chaser from April last year where Julian dresses up as Brian Burke and tries to have lunch with various politicians..
Frank, sounds like shades of the Painters and Dockers Royal Commission where it started as an anti Labor witch-hunt and ended with the Liberal Party on the run over Bottom of the Harbour Schemes.
Perth Now article on the Burke/Grill/Marlborough charges.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24612636-948,00.html
Nothing on “Their ABC”
WA Today:
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/burke-grill-marlbourough-face-further-corruption-charges-20081106-5j8p.html
And from The West, who will have a field day over this
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=106747
Great piece on ABC TV news about Bill Leak. He looks well and is home from hospital and back drawing again, but it sounds like he was very, very lucky to survive…
The wiki entry on the Costigan Commission is worth a read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_on_the_activities_of_the_Federated_Ship_Painters_and_Dockers_Union
Good News indeed and for those who missed it, here is the video.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2008/11/06/2412531.htm
I should add, well done to everyone at RNS who saved his life. Too many times hospitals only get bad news stories about them, but they deserve some credit for this one.
And a ringing endorsement of the much maligned Public Hospital System
BTW, that link to the video I posted is the complete uncut interview, not the story shown on TV.
And the ABC bring up the rear in reporting the Burke Charges.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/06/2412598.htm
Didn’t Geirner lose a few to ICAC which he set up and then himself fell to ICA.
Howard also had his code of conduct and lost nine ministers before he abandond it.
Labor yet to lose anyone in their 1st year, just a misbehaving Belinda, is that why the libs and MSM are so angry?
the opposition needs to be very very careful, Howard used the PM’s jet daily to go back and forward from Kirribilli when The Lodge was’nt good enough for Hiacynth, Howard also used it as his own personal property to go overseas to the cricket, Rudd is using it here to get to the field cabinet meetings he promised, i think that would count as legitimate use, Hiacynth was even having it decked out in silk wallpaper at an astronomical cost till she got caught out.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24611672-5005962,00.html
Excellent news re BB and friends, it needs to be dealt with and for now it looking good.
No party needs arsehole’s like this, nor any state or any country for that matter. There will always be BB type people in any place, when there’re found however, they should be exposed and dealt with
spam box – when I read your 470 comment I thought, don’t tell me William has banned Bushfire Bill!
471
lol – heaven forbid, there’d be a riot (and rightly so!)
I must admit to seeing my life flash in front of me there for a second or so…
Must say I was pleasantly surprised to see that the avuncular Rupert Murdoch is about to wield the retrenchment axe at his Aussie newspapers. First to go should be Shanahan, whose plonking column this morning, purporting to instruct Wayne Swan on how to comport himself at press conferences, was a more than usually egregious piece of unnecessary blather.
If Wayne Swan gives us opinion leaders a gotcha (so the Shanahan rule runs), then ordinary folk may think this is only a slip of the tongue. But we opinionistas know better. We know that the kind of person who gaffes in public does not have the character to hold high office. Why? Because someone who gaffes in public will be crucified by us, the opinion leaders.
It’s all a circular game, see? The gaffe is not in itself important. It’s that it gives the jackals of the press a chance to ridicule the high office holder over nothing much at all. Therefore someone who’s stupid enough to give said jackals an edge is… voila!… lacking in suitable character for high office. Who better to reveal this rule to us than… one of the chief jackals of the press?
I am developng a theory (about which I may write a book… or maybe not, or maybe something in-between, as La Stupenda might put it) that the single sole consolidated line of attack that the conservatives have against left wing politicians is that they do not know how to behave properly when in office. The attack always becomes one of character or judgement. They take a trivial matter and admit that it is trivial, but point out that it is revealing as to judgement or character.
Say Wayne Swan’s office bought the wrong size paper clips one day. Shanahan’s argument would be that paper clips are, in themselves, an unimportant matter. But… that Swan would employ someone who made such trivial mistakes is a reflection on his judgement in picking staff. Shanahan would write it up as a poor reflection on the character of the man who is supposed to be in charge of our economy. Suddenly paper clips becomes revealing of a nation-theatening lack of judgement. If Swan stuffs up on something as trivial as paper clips, what will he be like when really important matters come up for judgement?
Pies’ column yesterday (yes, I got out the sturdy leather strap I keep for such occasions and lashed myself to the chair to be able to finish reading it) was full of this character and judgement stuff. Rudd was a hypocrite for using Kirribilli House (misrepresenting Rudd’s position that it should not be the Prime Ministerial home, not that it should not be used at all). He was possibly misusing public funds by holding a dinner there at all (so now the Prime Minister has to pay for his own meals when on official business? So says Pies… he reckons there should be an investigation). He is a celebrity junkie, revealing a childishness and lack of judgement and characater in the Ruddian head. He is too big for his boots (ditto on character and judgement). Pies summed up by saying that the oafs and barbarians had invaded the shores of Sydney Harbour, hardly a ringing personal endorsement of the Ruddster. A simple dinner for movers and shakers at the PM’s official digs when in Sydney becomes a scandal of character and judgement of gargantuan proportions. Throw in Phonegate and there you have it: Rudd is unfit for office. And to think he fooled all those millions of people into voting for him! I can picture Pies contentedly tucking into a bag full of hot dogs as he re-read his words, thinking, “There Mr. Rudd. Gotcha!”. I am expecting my exciteable neighbour to knock on my door at any moment now with his famous, “Rudd’s F**KING GONE, mate!” line, again.
Anyway, I’m not going to reveal all my material because one of youse might steal my idea and get into print before me. But I hope you all get the drift: Labor is unfit for office because they do not know how to behave according to the rules set out by political journalists, who themselves are solid citizens (in Pies’ case, extremely solid citizens, enough for two) and in every way beyond reproach in their personal habits. Except of course for the diminutive El Presidente, The Poison Dwarf himself, Mr. Platform Shoes… Glenn Milne. But, as Glenn once famously said (when pinged for hypocrisy after committing assault and battery on the stage at the Walkleys and then criticising Rudd for flying to Perth, or something), “… I’m not running for Prime Minister.” Suffice it to say that I thank God for this simple blessing every day.
Let us hope that the denizens of the Press Club remember what Glenn is running for, and act appropriately. The man really doesn’t have much judgement, or any character at all, as far as I can see.
And neither do his mates. Perhaps the Godly among us should pray that Uncle Rupert sees it that way, too.
The degree of influence these journalistic clowns have on public opinion can be judged by the length of time these non issues remain in the public domain. Twice “phonegate” was cranked up as an issue and twice it fell as flat as a tack. Swan’s performance at a press conference has gone unnoticed to the great unwashed out there, as, I suspect, most of his press conferences. These “issues” are for political tragics and journalists only. Most people are going about their business trying to survive.
Great posting BB.
All I can say is that after the same period in Howard’s first term he had already lost half a dozen ministers. Unfit my ass.
Call in the AFP!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rudd-reveals-obama-chat/2008/11/07/1225561103210.html
Nah, call in ltep
UK Labour has won a by election. Wow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7710999.stm
476 – you can here the “Rudd big noting himself” criticism ramping up can’t you? The fact that Obama’s office released this information earlier (I saw it on CNN this morning)will mean nothing to the Rudd haters.
For the croweaters, and anyone who used to vote for the Democrats:
Last Democrat on the way out
Sandra Kanck, last Democrats MP in Australia, has retired from the SA Upper House, a couple of years early. Goodnight Democrats.
Like Johnny never stopped playing his ‘pals with Bush’ card until the Texas idiot made an utter mess of things
BB, thank god you’ve stayed with us lol, you dont know how many times you’ve made me laugh when i’ve felt like crying, your da man.
Swan’s doing ok, he’ll never be a great orator or have a lot of charisma, but he a good honest solid workhorse who puts his heart into his work, thats the sort of treasurer we need in these traumatic times, i sometimes think a lot of people underestimate him, he calmly says it how it is and i respect that, a few have touted Tanner in Swan’s place but i think Tanner’s better using his talents where he is, that man is the brain for the plotting and planning, Swan has got Henry to guide him if needed.
now Turnbull is supposed to be a chasimatic whizkid, ex merchant banker and all, sure he made $millions, but most merchant bankers did in the good times, now they’re falling like ninepins and if any of Turnbull’s utterances lately are anything to go by he’d be ninepinning with them if he was’nt in parliament, if the government had carried out the pie in the sky plans he’s been touting we’d be deeper in the mess than we already are, you know the ones, 5 cents off petrol etc, all Turnbull is good for is trying to block the budget and stuffing up the economy further in his attemps to discredit the government, unfortunately for him the government is oozing with a depth of talent right up to the backbenchers.
i saw re Sandra Kanck earlier, as a croweater all i can say is thank god, she should have gone when Lees did, those two singlehandedly destroyed the democrats, Lee out of spite and Kanck with her nutty ideas, it was bloody embarressing they both came from here.
You watch the Libs crow if we have to have budget deficits for a while. The fact that this economist believes it’s a good thing will not stop them getting on here screaming “labor is sending us broke”.
http://news.theage.com.au/business/budget-deficits-coming-soon-economists-20081107-5k00.html
“Citigroup managing director of economics Stephen Halmarick said the government would have to deliver budget deficits for the next two financial years to shield Australia against unfavourable economic conditions.
“We do not, however, see this as a negative,” he said.
“Indeed, allowing the budget to move into deficit at a time of significant global recession and near-recession conditions in Australia would be sensible economic policy.”"
They will say Labor promised to keep the budget in surplus. Let’s see if they’re that predictable.
over the cycle
I know that, you know that and they know that but it probably won’t stop them from running the line.
I’m with you though, if an economic stimulus is needed, it’s needed. Then later when the economy has recovered you can ensure it’s back in healthy surplus.
Can’t do, Amensty has declared the use of LTEP constitutes cruel and unusual punishment and should be banned along with waterboarding.
You’re absolutley right ltep – Costello is already running this line in McCrann pathetic article yesterday. “Where’s my surplus gone?” sniff sniff; “what about the future fund?” sniff sniff. All my work ensuring a commodity price boom gone…
He obviously needs a lie down – but the hammock’s been taken away.
“Costello is already running this line in McCrann pathetic article yesterday. “Where’s my surplus gone?” sniff sniff; “what about the future fund?” sniff sniff. All my work ensuring a commodity price boom gone…”
He had the chance to leave parliament when the others left, but he hasn’t. This constant commentary is interesting. He’s staying there for a reason.
Opposition leader Peter Costello. The political tart’s leadership will be stillborn.
MARK MY WORDS #2,974,633
Turnbull will find a way to blame Rudd for the ABC Childcare meltdown.
Youse have been warned…
“Turnbull will find a way to blame Rudd for the ABC Childcare meltdown.”
And he’ll initially support the bailout of ABC, then spend weeks carping at the edges.
Hey c’mon BB he really should have seen this coming
Expect the Libs to follow this line from AM this morning:
And expect them to ignore the next line of the story
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2412887.htm
Maybe it is time to partly nationalise the banks?
How-greater minds than me i’m sure could devise a plan
The Federal Seat of Kalgoorlie will be split under AEC changes.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/07/2414011.htm
Ben Chifley tried that n 1949, and look what happened to him
My goodness what is Leigh Sales wearing… yum
That seems fairly intelligent. If that’s just a renaming of the draft changes that came out a couple of months ago, then that’s Kalgoorlie -> O’Connor (southern seat) and O’Connor -> Durack (northern seat). The southern seat looked a bit weird being called Kalgoorlie… it also contained Albany, Esperance and the southern wheatbelt (coming to within 30 km of Armadale). It’s better off having a generic name.
Does the latest revision affect the margin in Cowan at all?
So they’ve abolished Kalgoorlie. That’s two redistributions in a row at which they’ve quite unnecessarily abolished a federation seat name (last time it was Gwydir). What part of the electoral act don’t they understand? Why doesn’t someone take them to court over this?
David, if I’m reading it properly, an area containing 3544 people as of the 2006 census (rapidly growing since with many young families) has been transferred from proposed Moore to confirmed Cowan, who split about 57-43 to the Liberals at the election. This means the Liberal margin of 1.1 per cent which Antony calculated when the redistribution was announced will probably increase to 1.3 or 1.4.
Thanks William. That’s makes for a larger effect than I would have figured.
Adam, the seat containing the city of Kalgoorlie has more commonality with the present seat of O’Connor. I think it’s a reasonable decision. Though I do agree that dropping Gwydir was indefensible.
So this essentially changes the seat balance in WA not very much? Is Durack likely to be safer than Kalgoorlie?
“In an exclusive interview, the Opposition Leader complained Mr Rudd ignored him socially and refused to respond to his letters.
“I don’t have any relationship with him at all,” he declared.”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24617956-5007133,00.html
Tell your social problems to someone who cares Mr Turnbull.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24617956-5007133,00.html
“”If I was in his position I would be more courteous. I think his demeanour in Question Time is not courteous, he virtually never answers a question for a start, he turns his back on the Opposition,” he said.
Mr Turnbull said Ms Rein appeared to have the same attitude.
“I have been in the same room as her but I don’t think I have ever had a conversation with her,” he said. ”
ohhh…. Poor Malcolm … needs to man up a bit
snap ltep
… Malcolm sounding like a child … “but mummy he won’t play with me” … ffs grow up Malcolm
Faced with the outstanding poll performance of the government, over the period of its incumbency and for over a year before that, Shaun Carney does a giant dummy spit in today’s Age:
I would have thought 61-39 would provide a lot of comfort, skinwize, but Shaun has the gotcha: Howard, Bush and Blair are all gone. Political success is followed by political failure. What goes up must come down. These are almost La Stupenda-esque insights, from a writer clearly at the top of his game.
With the Rudd government not yet a year old, Shaun is already writing it off as one that – some day – will lose power. Gee, how brilliant is that? I guess we don’t have to be serious about political analysis for the duration of the slippery-slide down to abject defeat, ’cause one day Labor will lose an election. I mean, what’s the point?
There’s even a snarky bit in there about the bank guarantee. After, on occasion, “appearing to know what it’s doing”, Rudd’s amateur lot “drags its feet about tying up the details on its bank guarantee”. Little consideration is given to the possibility that the bank guarantee was only meant to be applied to registered banks, with strict prudential reporting obligations, as opposed to other financial institutions who deliberately knocked back morphing into banks so they could offer higher – but riskier – interest rates to the baby boomers in smug, self-funded retirement… all based on property, y’know, the cause of all this meltdown business in the first place, as in “property not worth its paper value.” Sheesh, how many ways can you interpret the phrase “bank guarantee” to argue that it really means (or should mean) “universal insurance for anyone who has any money invested in any mortgage fund, dodgy or otherwise”? The reason the squealing BBs didn’t deposit their money in banks is because their smartie financial advisers told them that the funds would offer a higher rate of return. Perhaps the silk-suited BMW types flogging these schemes skipped over the really fast mumbly bit at the end of the radio ads, or the fine print at the bottom of the brochure that read “Conditions Apply”? Conditions like: “Psssst!… We’re not a bank“?
Faced with the government’s surging popularity, with a big tick being given by the public for it doing pretty damn well, considering, in handling the financial crisis; faced with unemployment figures that “counter-intuitively” (a delightful Stupenda-ism I couldn’t resist) didn’t “nosedive”, “blow-out”, “take a tumble”, “trip up a bit” or even change at all in any downward direction, the opinionistas are left with the savant-like pronouncement that one day the so far successful and popular Rudd government might do something wrong, with the hinted conclusion lingering that, knowing this, we may as well write them off right now. The only thing lingering to my mind is the pong from the intellectual farts that conservative columnists are letting off in their frustration that the present government is doing OK. It’s not so much irritable bowel syndrome… more like irritable brain syndrome, and I mean collectively irritable.
As I’ve said many times (well, at least three in the last few weeks) “Sex, death and misery sell.” Why be optimistic, or even balanced and level-headed on any subject, when you can take a fabulous poll performance, general agreement that the government is coping quite well in a fluctuating situation, record low unemployment and a little thing like the saving of our economy through rapid, accurate decision making and turn it into “A fair bit of the time, it gets close to appearing to know what it’s doing”?
I’ve been doing one of my mini BB surveys. The people I am working with at the moment, generally a dour bunch who would rather “get the quote out” than breathe, or watch the football than waste any mental energy on sentient thought, get animated about one thing that isn’t on YouTube or the lunchroom Foxtel: their super. They’re aghast that it’s worth but a fraction (albeit a largish one) of what it was a year ago. Any do you know who they blame? Not the government.
They realise that much of what we see happening on the stock market and in house prices is caused by fear, loss of confidence and the “you go first” syndrome, as in “you jump in the river first and see if there are crocodiles in it.” In short, they blame the media, so full of itself with reporting, nay talking up misery and doom, that the whole world is panicking for nothing except the bloated egos of the misery-gutsers who write the depressing trash offered to their readers and viewers day after day. Many others in my mini survey think the same: if all you read is negative, eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling conclusion. Judging by the almost universal agreement my mini-survey has found on this (you’d hafta say) fairly important point, I’d guess that this is a pretty widespread opinion out there in Voterland. It’s the one thing anyone I’ve asked about it get angry about. The thing is, it doesn’t matter whether they know that the misery aspect is being played up far too much. As long as there are some mugs, like the chappie who had $5 left in his, his wife’s and his two kids’ bank accounts due to a freeze by his investment fund, who are prepared not to act wisely and calmly, the entire market takes a dive. The freaked-out few, the ones on the margins, make merry hell for us all. And there’s nothing we can do about it except wait for the Grim Reapers at Fairfax, News and the ABC to wake up to themselves that they’re making the situation worse, not better with their gloom and doom.
Although I can’t remember a specific occasion, I’m pretty sure my mum told me that if I couldn’t say anything nice about someone, then I shouldn’t say anything at all. I certainly don’t say very many nice things about certain journalists and politicians, but then again I don’t have an audience of hundreds of thousands like Shaun Carney does. Rolling-about tummy tantrums like this morning’s piece are just nasty. If he can’t think of anything nice to say about the government and the way they’re looking after the state of our country and economy, why not write about the cricket, or the footy, anything but politics? Please.
We’ll put that down in the column of “gee I never saw that coming”.
Turnbull v PJK:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2413970.htm
Lowlife, he’s worse than Latham, the press went feral over the Latham handshake, what will be the reaction over Turnbull going the PM’s wife.
Turnbull seemed to have difficulty understanding how his bagging of the deposit guarantee increased the run on smaller banks. He must think that nobody listens to a word he says.
Over on The Oz’s website, Jack the Insider points out it was an odd decision for MT to go against PJK – what did he have to gain from it?
The Liberal Mark Latham has arrived methinks… but you’re right castle, how will the tabloids react?
Mark Newton from Internode has met with Kate Ellis to discuss the Government’s ridiculous filter plan:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1080349&p=41#r813
Again, I urge anyone within the ALP to lobby directly whoever they can to dispose of this stupid policy ASAP.
Can’t help you there ltep as I’m not in any political party but I fail to see any other result than this one just being quietly withdrawn.
Castle
malcolm has crossed the rubicon regarding the PM’s wife.
Decent people will see this as what it is-the trumpetting of an empty vessel,besides being a blowhard,Talcum is a becoming the ‘green eyed monster”.
milne,etc nows the time to show what standards you expect from the opposition-if any
I can see Rudd being asked about this and saying,
Yes Durack is safer than Kalgoorlie.
Swan is now a notional Labor seat.
Canning, Cowan and Stirling are a tiny bit more marginal.
Ditto Hasluck.
Re 504
Malcolm Turnbull and Thurston Howell III, Gilligan’s Island patrician castaway – separated at birth and sharing so many character traits IMO. (Re http://www.gilligansisle.com/thurston.html)
“No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never.”
Mr. Howell is actually a billionaire and one of the world’s richest men, inherited from his father. He met his wife “Lovey” at Harvard and married her in 1944. He remembers it as the day Consolidated General jumped 17 points. Although they’ve been married 20 years, they both admit that the last 5 years haven’t been much of a picnic. But still, Thurston can be remarkably sentimental and romantic with Lovey.
Known as the Wizard of Wall Street, he has been convicted 6 times on antitrust suits, and investigated every year for income tax evasion. He owns up to 12 corporations, and as chairman of the board, has 5,000 employees and an office on the second floor.
He prides himself as being a Harvard graduate and a registered Republican. He has homes in Palm Beach, Paris, Newport, New York, Monaco, and all 50 states. Thurston has 20 suitcases just for himself.
Howell displays little tact, blames the Skipper for the shipwreck, and is always trying to break the castaways’ laws and bribe others. He is sneaky, untrustworthy, conniving, greedy and corrupt. Yet, when it comes to the lives of his fellow castaways, he’s always exceptionally generous and caring.
He refuses to do manual labor, preferring instead to hire Gilligan to work for him. He usually spends his day relaxing with his wife Lovey on the bamboo lounge chairs, sipping tropical drinks, and listening to the stock market report on the radio (which is his). He also enjoys playing golf with bamboo and seashell clubs and reading his only copy of the Wall Street Journal every day. He finds it comforting that the market never goes up or down.”
Quite.
For those among us who doubted the importance of UK Labour’s win in the latest by-election this article puts it all into perspective.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/poll-win-a-rare-fillip-for-brown-20081107-5k7r.html
There goes the Libs 5c off petrol pledge.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24620661-12377,00.html
LTEP #503: Antony Green calculated the margins at the time they were originally proposed in August.
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2008/08/new-federal-bou.html
The proposed boundaries have been confirmed with one actual change, namely an area has been shifted from Moore to Cowan that will increase the Liberal margin in the latter from 1.1 per cent to maybe 1.3 or 1.4. The other change is that they have decided to call O’Connor Kalgoorlie and Kalgoorlie Durack.
Thanks GP!
Malcolm Turnbull backs away from petrol excise pledge – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24620661-12377,00.html
Honestly, if one ever needed convincing that The Australian is a Liberal paper, this is it. If Labor did it, they’d rip them to shreds. The article is so small, yet they still think it’s a good idea to say:
“Mr Turnbull said the Opposition’s priority was helping pensioners, not cutting petrol tax.”
When did the Liberals ever once care about pensioners? They actually looked at cutting the pension when they were last in power. And let’s not forget the Rudd government had a pension review right from the start of their time in office, for ALL pensions, not just the aged care pension, doing it to get the aged demographic back to their side that abandoned them when Rudd came along.
Populist Turnbull. I’m glad he came in this early in the electoral cycle, he’ll have no credit left when the next election comes.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2413970.htm
Great article! I’d love to see more of Keating and Turnbull debate issues! Keating really can show up the Liberals for what they are. A bunch of coattail riders.
Ahhh what a legend.
521 – they had to do it – but it does give the Govt a few easy answers in QT next week.
In other news – Ken Randall easily won the National Press CLub Presidency vote over Milne -http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/landslide-victory-for-club-president/1355362.aspx
try the link again:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/landslide-victory-for-club-president/1355362.aspx
motor mouth is at it again, he’s busy sounding off whilst Rudd and co are busy saving the economy.
by the way Mark Kenny has written a full page on motor mouth’s ramblings about the Rudd’s, pity i cant get a link to it, i’ve written a short sharp letter to the editor though being the Advertiser it may not see the light of day.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/11/08/2414210.htm
Good riddance.
I didn’t see anything particularly controversial in that statement.
“LOSER Political journalist Glenn Milne”
my thoughts exactly
ok full quote from the title under the photo:
“LOSER: Political journalist Glenn Milne will play no further part on the board.”
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/landslide-victory-for-club-president/1355362.aspx
ltep@528 are you talking about Turnbull’s:
“There are naturally concerns in Australia about some of the fairly protectionist sentiments that he’s expressed in the course of the campaign,” Mr Turnbull said.
I agree nothing wrong with that … but then he goes on (he can’t help himself)
“Where his policies emerge in office we’ll see, but certainly no matter how much presence or style he has, a more protectionist America is certainly not good for Australia.”
why the cheap shot about “presence or style”?
and why the hell is it lead story on ABC Online (I know, I know … its pointless asking )
So now we know. Milne didn’t want to be Prime Minister. He wanted to be el Presidente Minúsculo instead.
Such a pity he lost.
Of course getting drunk, disorderly and aggressive, throwing punches at the Walkleys after clambering up onto the stage, and being w_r_o_n_g in most his prognostications about the imminent demise of the Rudd government and just abotu everything else (Peter Costello for PM, anybody?) wouldn’t have had anything to do with it, now, would it?
I wouldn’t have voted for Milne simply on his overuse of the word “paradigm”. And besides, you’d never know whether he wasn’t going to launch a haymaker at one of the luncheon guests. Could you imagine TPD introducing Kevin Rudd without someone getting socked in the kisser?
If only the Fairfax journos showed as much sense in their writing as they did in their voting, the Australian media might be in a less egregious state of decline.
I didn’t notice that bit. Maybe he’s just jealous because he lacks both presence and style.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/08/2414189.htm
Communist.
Funnily enough, that’s exactly the same line the opinion forming class was regurgitating yesterday on TV, radio and print. Same thing that’s in the letters today. I doubt many of those people will have the courage to say “Hey Senator Brown’s stance reflects exactly what I was harping on about! I think instead of a puff-piece on the Libs I’ll write an article tomorrow about how there’s a party who’s on the same page as academics, employees, parents, journalists and public opinion.”
turnbull:
Once again, Malcolm Turnbull showing how he suffers others of less brilliant talent than he. Being generous, Malcolm will give Obama a go, to be fair and all that, but really… Obama is all presence and style, no real substance to him, don’t y’know? Certainly not in the Turnbull class. Probably hasn’t ever had to slum it in rented accommodation, for example. And does Obama know a Packer? No, I thought not. Sheer populist politician.
I always said Turnbull would destroy himself. It’s arrogant stuff like this, and his comments about Therese Rein recently that show the man up to be a complete political buffoon. Either the World beats a path to his door, begging for the Turnbull wisdom to be bestowed upon it, or else the World’s the loser for it.
A size 12 ego in size 6 boots.
PPP, BB, what an ego that “man” has, i was gobsmacked when fresh from bagging the Rudd’s he immediatly got stuck into Obama who at this time is the most popular leader in the world, of course none of them have motormouth’s understanding of world events, he’s a paragon of knowledge second to none—- in case you didnt get the message.
I want my 5 cent a litre discount and I want it now!!
What’s The Australian going to do about it? They know it’s good policy.
Oz: Your comments about Senator Brown and a publicly-based system, saying he is a communist – you either said that in jest, or you actually believe that.
If it is the latter, I do feel sorry for your inability to tell the difference between communism and socialism.
BB – “Once again, Malcolm Turnbull showing how he suffers others of less brilliant talent than he. Being generous, Malcolm will give Obama a go, to be fair and all that, but really… Obama is all presence and style, no real substance to him, don’t y’know?”
Replace Obama with Rudd, and it begins to make the Liberals sound like a broken record.
/lame joke/
This is what happens when you Turn a bull loose in a China Shop
Turn-a-bull …sorry
Turnbull really is just floundering around all over the place – commenting on anything just to get a headline (which ABC Online dutifully does)
bob, better have your irony and sarcasm meter reconditioned if you want to survive around here ….
some good news (but only the tiniest of reporting to be found)
I can’t believe that this was actually happening …
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/08/2414252.htm
Members of the Defence Force will be able to keep their defence-funded acommodation when they are deployed overseas for six months or more.
Previously they had to vacate their homes and put their belongings in storage.
Minister for Defence Science and Personnel Warren Snowdon says the change of policy affects 1,100 people nationwide.
He says Defence Force members returning from deployment were having trouble finding new accommodation and it was becoming a significant morale issue.
“People were coming back from deployments and discovering that they couldn’t find accommodations easily in places where rental markets are tight, such as Darwin and Townsville,” he said.
“What we needed to do is provide them with the capacity to keep their rental assistance while they’re on deployment so they can keep their accommodation.”
I would have thought that the second part of my comment would have made it obvious.
If you still aren’t sure, then I’ll ruin it by spelling it out – Was a joke!
Forgive me. Hungover, late night.
PPP, your headline remark reminded me, is’nt the newspoll being canvassed this weekend, maybe thats why motormouth has had even more opinions on everything than usual, somebody had better whisper in his lily white ear that first of all offering yourself to be rolled by Keating isnt a good look, especially when theres no way you could top him and then adding to it by bagging the Rudd’s and Obama–both incredably popular leaders is plain stupidity, is this the best the libs can offer?
Glenn Milne should take Ken Randall to court. It’s an absolute disgrace he didn’t win. Bias in the NPC! It’s unconstitutional! He has been judged a loser without substantiation.
Either that or it’s been decided a violent, drunken buffoon who’s efforts at political journalism are as sophisticated as a wind-up bear is a bad choice for president of the country’s foremost press luncheon club.
(Incidentally, I reckon David Speers should have a do-or-die tilt at the presidency too.)
whose
Yes.
Sad, isn’t it?
It serves the government well whenever Paul Keating buys into an argument (eg Gallipoli) because it provides Rudd an opportunity to respond as a centrist and thereby underline the contrast between his and previous Labor governments. Punters are reminded how eminently reasonable and representative of the middle thinking population Rudd is.
“It serves the government well whenever Paul Keating buys into an argument (eg Gallipoli) because it provides Rudd an opportunity to respond as a centrist and thereby underline the contrast between his and previous Labor governments. Punters are reminded how eminently reasonable and representative of the middle thinking population Rudd is.”
A rather similar comparison would be Rudd = Menzies, Keating = Fadden, and Turnbull = Chifley.
I think we’ll let Turnbull be Frank Forde who was PM for only 8 days.
I’m referring to the Menzies tactic in the late 1940s, where Fadden would ask Menzies a question with an extreme arch-conservative view against Chifley, which Menzies would then answer in a qualified fashion which came across as middle of the road, to make Chifley appear too far to the left.
“the middle thinking population”
Oh god, the gentle suburbs of Centrism! (Where not one belly has a fire in it …) Accessed via the low-fenced township of Market Liberalism, the plum-blossomed village of Democratic Socialism or by the dangerously unstable truck stop known as The Third Way.
Inner Westie, Hawke/Keating and Blair are proof that the third way is successful.
Oh and Clinton.
Yes, absolutely where I was going – sorry, just threw the 8 days thing in as a light aside. And the point of course is that Menzies was one of the, if not the, most popular PMs in Australia’s history. The electorate remembers the Keating and Whitlam eras as being artsie and leftie and by comparison Rudd’s government is not – Keating pushes Rudd to the centre and Rudd pushes the Lib’s to the right by default. Also Keating and Turnbull have more in common than Keating and Rudd in the artsie arena and the average elector is a bit lary of that too. So Turnbull loses out all round. He’s artsie like Keating and his party is pushed further to the right by Rudd’s centrism.
Inner Westie like it or not the ‘thinking middle’ is the hand that rocks the cradle of long term governments.
hang on ‘middle thinking’ …
Whitlam dropped Labor’s committment to socialism and removed trade barriers, he was quite more economically right than previous Labor governments. Hawke/Keating moved even further to the right, and basically setup the economy as it is today. Rudd by default is further to the right again, by keeping the GST and most of WorkChoices.
I wouldn’t call any of them economically left. I’d call Whitlam an economic centrist, with the latter economically right.
And Menzies wasn’t popular, he never achieved any great wins or implemented much legislation, he was just the beneficiary of Labor’s internal problems in the late 1940s, 1950s, and early 1960s. Disunity is death. In comparison today, Menzies would be considered quite the economic socialist in some respects.
Not to mention Whitlam was more economically liberal than prior Liberal governments of the time.
Menzies was the longest serving and since when does doing a lot equate with popularity? Sometimes the most popular leaders are those who do nothing and maintain the status quo (hence my suspicion whenever the MSM are egging the gov. to get a narrative or ‘do something’).
I’m not sure that laying the economic foundations for consumerist profligacy, growth upon growth (no matter what the environmental consequences) and the anti-Keynesian worship of surpluses for the sake of surpluses has proven to be any kind of useful “way” at all. (On the contrary.) What did Hawke, Keating, Blair and Clinton teach us about the principle of living modestly and within your means? (Beyond rhetoric and lip service, I mean.)
The fact that even though corporation profits are exponential in comparison, real wages have gone up, as has the standard of living?
Surpluses are a good thing as a temporary means – ie: savings, to be used on something later on. If Howard actually used the surplus to invest in health, education and infrastructure like Rudd wanted to, we’d be a lot better off. But without a surplus, we’d have to borrow the money and go in to a sizeable deficit – a negative for the RBA and wider economy as a whole.
bob1234, we might have to go into deficit, and this is thought to be a sensible thing to do by many economists, if we are to get the infrastructure and skills/knowledge training done that’s needed to have an economy capable of making the transition to a world dealing with climate change.
It’s going to be fascinating to see the next Newspoll and Neilson. Himself indoors was recently polled be Neilson, so am I right in thinking it will be out next week, along with Newspoll?
“With his banking background, the eloquent former shadow treasurer is a formidable opponent on economic matters ”
WHY?
as BB and other have postulated this one simple sentence and the subsequent lack of supporting evidence,highlights what is wrong with the MSM
they are abunch of fawning #$@%&%#%&^ who couldnt examine their own fingernails let alone the veracity of their work
HAVENT THE BANKERS LED US INTO THIS MESS
oxygen thieves most of them
pps
dag tail to previous comment
““With his banking background, the eloquent former shadow treasurer is a formidable opponent on economic matters ”- {and the Prime Minister knows it.}
FFS disneyland is calling for these so called ‘journalists’
http://www.theage.com.au/national/can-rudd-keep-the-country-on-track-20081108-5klb.html?page=-1
Whoa there!
What’s this all about?
Paul Daley, the Age’s “national political columnist” has let loose with a bitch piece on how the “fabulously indiscreet” Rudd, the “nerd” with “big ears” and a “Beatle haircut” (but don’t let that fool you) has, in a “sweaty-palmed” sort of way, fallen victim to celebrity-itis. Daley’s advice is for Rudd to take a chill pill and “relax”.
WTF? Where did that come from? Has Rudd done something to upset Paul Daley (whoever he is)?
I was expecting the last fornight’s bull$hit story about Kevin’s phone call from Bush to be distilled down to two words, at last a form of common wisdom. And there we had it: Rudd is now “fabulously indiscreet”… a known known, it seems (although the example given, the Beijing-Rudd-Bush-Putin “scandal” was given as “evidence”, I guess because Phonegate was from a Murdoch paper). But the rest of the diatribe sounds like someone got out of bed on the wrong side, and it wasn’t Rudd. The piece is actually Akermanesque in its vitriol. One gets the feeling that in the continual “Insiders v. Outsiders” fashion parade these circle-jerking, politically inbred scribblers of Canberra indulge themselves in, a certain “P.D.” is definitely on the outside lately and wants to have a whinge about it.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/hi-im-kevin-and-i-want-to-be-your-friend-20081108-5kkc.html
Yesterday, The Age’s Shaun Carney pictured us a government that sometimes, sort-of, half-way, maybe, occasionally appears to be in control (on a good day), and now we have childish schoolyard name-calling from someone who – as “national political columnist” – should know better (I exempt myself from liability for name-calling… I’m only a blogger, a known nobody who knows he’s a nobody). The only explanation for the Daley brain fart that I can think of is that there’s a little bit of bridge-burning going on here, as in “I don’t want to talk to Mr. Wudd anyway.” And I think Daley might achieve that result with a nothing column like this, dredged up from the permanent sludge of spite that seems to have come closer to the surface in national politics lately. Maybe it’s the Drought?
Elsewhere, in the Sun-Herald, Rudd is front and centre being carpeted by two non-entities, Josh Gordon and Lisa Carty, leftovers from the recent Fairfax purge, for holding a celebratory, fundraising dinner to mark Labor’s first year in office. A fundraiser? Held by a political party? Oh, the horror!:
Oh, “appalling” is it, Josh and Lisa? And who says so? Seeing as the adjective you use is not attributed, I guess it must be your own. But wait a minute, the intro reported that Rudd was being “slammed” for insensitivity. If this was a News piece, the journo doing his own “slamming” would be enough. In the particular case of el Presidente Minúsculo, Milne himself simply asserts the governent is “reeling” or is “under fire”, but let’s assume Fairfax hasn’t sunk as low as just making it up, yet. So, let’s take a look… Ah ha! Here it is, Barry O’Farrell is doing the “slamming”:
Perhaps Barry reads Generic Person assiduously? If so, take a bow, GP…
Hey, just wait a cotton-pickin’ minute! I thought it was Rudd being “slammed”. The “starving families” of Australia have taken to the streets. But no, alas, we find the only slamming being done is by Barry O’Farrell, against state Labor ministers. Not a whiff of Rudd-slamming to be seen. So I guess Josh and Lisa did make it up, after all? Seems like Fairfax have thrown the babies out with the bathwater if Josg and Lisa get a front-page gig like this one.
There’s been a bit of this turning perfectly normal political practices into anti-democratic binge fests lately. Pies himself told his readers a couple of days back that a Prime Ministerial dinner at Kirribilli House, apart from being totally hypocritical due to the venue, would of course be paid for out of the Rudd millions… or would it?. Surely an official government dinner with senior journalists wasn’t… gulp… funded by the taxpayer? Pies advised holding an enquiry in Senate Estimates, or perhaps some stinging questions in QT to get to the bottom of the matter. We can’t have Prime Ministers asking the public to pay for their official dinners. And now, according to the neophytes, Josh and Lisa (it took two of them to write this drivel?) you’re not allowed to have a fundraiser to celebrate the anniversary of the ousting of an unpopular government that was araldited into the seat after ten years in office. Barry might want to get Josh and Lisa to tone that down a bit, methinks, if the next NSW state election goes according to script.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rudds-1m-party/2008/11/08/1225561201520.html
In another section of the Sun-Herald, La Stupenda is playing with my mind.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/here-we-go-with-bho/2008/11/08/1225561196470.html
I clicked on the link, but got one of those bot messages saying “We can’t find the article”. However, here’s the tantalising header:
Oh, so now there are dangers in getting too comfy around BHO (Barack Obama)? Kevin had better watch out. He might be classed as getting far too uppity. Despite not being able to read the article in full, I reckon by now, with my special studies in La Stupenda-isms, I could write it myself.
Does that just about cover it?
Now to try and find Milne’s piece for today. The small, but perfectly formed Glenn will no doubt be in a seriously bad temper from his trouncing in the Press Club elections yesterday; stalked by the Black Dog and all that as he realises that not only can he never be Prime Minister, or el Presidente Minúsculo of the Press Club, but he couldn’t even get a gig as Peter Costello’s publicity flack. So today’s piece from our paradigm in platform shoes should be a humdinger…
Gusface, they’re getting prepared for the next arising when Rudd becomes a one term wonder, they’ve all sternly foretold he’ll not get re elected next term and that eventually the honeymoon will be over, thats when we poor deluded fools will wake up to ourselves, then in a burst of revelating light we’ll see the wonderful opportunity we’ve missed and restore those born to rule in their proper places in the universe, then of course we’ll know OUR place in the scheme of things and tug our forlocks and get back to working for a pittance to help our betters to live in the luxury they deserve, the meeja sycophants just want to ready the way.
While my longer comment is awaiting moderation, I got to read Milne today in the Tele.
Apparently Rudd has not made a statement to Parliament on the GFC because he’s scared Malcolm Turnbull’s reply will steal his thunder.
What a giant of an imagination. And in someone so small…
Meet the Press ….what a joke
Andrew Robb allowed to say ANYTHING he wanted without any challenge at all.
If that is supposed to be political debate why bother airing such rubbish at all
Loony Guy Barnett sunk to the 3rd spot on Lib ticket in Tasmania for next Senate election.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/09/2414372.htm
Hopefully this will see the departure of one of the most far right religious looneys in Parliament. Unfortunately they didn’t take the chance to ditch the repugnant Eric Abetz.
Dave, Meet the Press just started here, what a hoot, the American ambassador has just firmly squashed phonegate and yet Robb is still trying to breathe life into it, he still wants a police inquiry, now he claims Obama wont deal with Rudd over it, he’s conveniently forgotten about Howards little foray into American politics by saying a vote for Obama would be a vote for the terrorists, now with that i could understand Obama avoiding us like the plague if Howard was still PM, actually i think it will probably make Obama closer to Rudd seeing him as the good cop.
There has been no such ’squashing’ of ‘phonegate’.
Judith, the fibs also very conveniently overlook tip costellos blunder with alan greenspan went he spilt the beans on his so called confidential conversation during a previous financial crisis.
Yet tip is now revered by some as the worlds greatest treasurer, albeit sulking still on the backbench.
Isn’t it convenient how msm rarely recall blunders of conservatives
sorry ltep the caravan has moved on. Regardless of the “diplomatic concerns” this was apolitical issue, and it didn’t get up. Turnbull will try this week no doubt, but I can’t see it having any legs.
Joe Hockey on “Sunday” says the ALP promised too mcuh during the election whereas the Libs were warning of dark clouds. Gee I guess that’s why they went with “Go Fro Growth”….
good comment though by Barry Cassidy on the “phonegate” that The Oz has run dead on it. It’s true that as the only national paper it does have far too much influence on the agenda.
sorry ltep the caravan has moved on. Regardless of the “diplomatic concerns” this was apolitical issue, and it didn’t get up.
Well in that case AWB, children overboard etc. were ’squashed’ as well.
And as Insiders pointed out, a lot of that has to do with The Australian completely dropping the story.
I think Barrie Cassidy and ltep are the only people who care.
Re. The australian dropping the story… I think the jist of that conversation on Insiders was that someone at the Australian knows who leaked. And that perhaps the reason they’re not running with the story is that they can hardly make a big thing about who leaked it, without disclosing that they alone know who it was. What’s the point of writing speculative stories about who leaked what when you know all the time who the leaker was?
Further, I think the raised eyebrows had something to do with the fact that Chris Mitchell was present at the dinner when Rudd took the call. You don’t have to be Einstein to figure out that Mitchell is the leaker, or since he didn’t have any official standing re. the call from Bush, could be more accurately described as “the source”.
Given that the more lurid of the story’s details have been denied by both sides – Bush and the Australian government – and that it therefore seems established that they didn’t happen, it’s becoming a distinct possibility that Mitchell may well have made the story up himself, or at least embellished it somewhat, passed it onto the journalist to write up, and created a very large kerfuffle for his paper. A passing joke – either from Rudd or, more likely, Mitchell (you can imagine him asking Rudd “Did Bush even know what the G20 is? Ha! Ha!” when Rudd sat back down to resume his meal) – has been turned into a national scandal that Mitchell wants no more of.
Even the other News Ltd. journos on Insiders were curious as to why the Oz went mum on the story.
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4333/
Hah, Gary Morgan on 3.5% primary.
I wonder how he managed to give himself 18% of second preferences.
569 – Laurie Oakes gave Hockey a fairly free run too. Although I must say Laurie’s article on Swan yesterday was very good and fair to Swan.
578 – BB I believe you are spot on. What other explanation can there be?
The average person couldn’t give a fig about “phonegate”. When will they just move on?
Indeed they were. Time to move on and I think most have.
Pretty sure there’s no comparison to be made between giving money to a despot, who you are actually trying to depose, and a make-believe phone story.
I think ltep has trouble distinguishing betweens and molehills.
MAKE THAT:
I think ltep has trouble distinguishing betweens mountains and molehills.
The most likely explantion for ANY story in The Australian is that The Australian has made it up – haven’t you folks realised that yet?
According to Robb, on Meet The Press, the Libs do believe in climate change it’s just they think that Rudd is not competent enough to handle the Carbon reduction.
Of course the Libs also believe in Climate change so much, they are willing to put off doing anything about it until every one else does or not now, because the time and the economy is not right yet. Or some other reason they will think of to put off doing something.
Muskiemp
“Or some other reason they will think of to put off doing something.”
last i heard,they were washing their hair,but they would get right on to it, promise.
If you listen to Robb, Hockey and the like you always get the impression that only they know how to govern Australia. Their egos are huge. I cringe. It’s the born to rule syndrome in full flight.
quit biting everyone, i think LTEP’s remarks are more about having a dig at me than any overwhelming belief in phonegate, theres been other negative remarks about what i post, dunno why, it doesnt worry me one little bit and i certainly wouldnt bother argueing about something in a blog, i’ve got far more important things going on, besides i’ve been razzed by feral journo’s and pollies in the past so lets move on, if i can ignore it so can everyone else.
I’m not the one that keeps bringing it up. I just respond to peoples’ (in my view) silly or incorrect assertions about it (it being ’squashed; it having no foundation etc. etc.). In any political discussion it’s unrealistic to think everyone will have the same view, and I, unlike the rest of the world, think the Government bungled on this occasion. I haven’t attempted to raise the topic unprovoked in a long time and will be interested to see the last time anyone could find where I raised it on my own.
Judith Barnes, I am not having a ‘dig’ at you. Like you, I have better things to do with my time.
Graffiti seen on the pavement on my regular walk route.
C’mon fellas, give the conservatives a break. This phonegate (if that’s what we’ll call it) is the only hope the cons have got in trying to discredit the Prime Minister in his constant dealings with WORLD LEADERS , even if it was all made up!
Did Bob Hawke ever meet Ronald Reagan at the White House?
Did Reagan ever come to Australia?
I think The Australian newspaper had better do something productive to restore any embarrassment that may have occured in the past with our allies. Like the then Prime Minister of Australia at the time saying that Obama is a leader that the terrorists support.
Can you imagine if a labor leader said that? CAN YOU IMAGINE IT?
The Australian should publish a screaming full front page apology from Howard saying sorry to Obama, NOW in tomorrows paper!
Anything John Howard has to say is completely irrelevant. However, you’d assume they’d at least ask Mr Turnbull and every other Liberal member when they arrive at parliament tomorrow whether they support the comments made by Mr Howard last year and think terrorists are currently rejoicing ah the Obama victory.
It’s the question I’d ask.
I think The Australian newspaper had better do something productive to restore any embarrassment that may have occured in the past with our allies. Like the then Prime Minister of Australia at the time saying that Obama is a leader that the terrorists support.
Can you imagine if a labor leader said that? CAN YOU IMAGINE IT?
The Australian should publish a screaming full front page apology from Howard saying sorry to Obama, NOW in tomorrows paper!
dream on Centre lol, you’ve got two chances of that happening buckleys and none, mind, now Obama is going to be the president i think there should be a parliamently inquiry into Howards remarks and an opology issued, of course any official opology should be made by Turnbull as the now leader of the offending party, it may avoid a diplomatic incident and rift between OZ and America, it’s one thing to insult a lowly senator, but lets face it it’s a bit different when the said senator becomes president of one of the world’s leading powers.
Oz @ %80,
I just love the intro on that poll.
“A special poll conducted on the Melbourne City Council elections shows that failed former Liberal Party leader Robert Doyle, who led the Liberal Party to a crushing defeat in the 2002 Victorian State election — the heaviest defeat the Liberal Party had ever suffered in Victoria, winning only 17 out of 88 Lower House seats, is nonetheless favoured to win the upcoming Melbourne City Council Election for a new Lord Mayor”.
Oh, that we could all own our own Market Research Company.
Judy you are right.
Turnbull must be man enough to say sorry on Howard’s behalf for the good of our association with the US. Does the Liberal Party still believe that Obama is a leader of the terrorists? Of course Howard is not man enough to say sorry for anything. Howard was and always will be remembered as a tiny little WIMP!
ltep, in complete contrast to JB, you are wrong.
What a former PM has said at his time in government is very relevant.
My point was that he is currently irrelevant. His opinions now on anything are of no concern to most Australians. I don’t want to know what he’s doing, what he thinks about anything etc. After 11 years I’m happy to no longer hear anything from him.
You say I am ‘wrong’ but post much that is an agreeance to what I say. The Liberals should be forced to qualify their position on Obama and whether they share Howard’s opinion. If not, the logical question should be to ask them whether they think Howard was wrong to have made the statement.
I don’t think the issue is anything that there should be a parilamentary inquiry into. What would the inquiry investigate in particular?
ltep, this is what happens:
A journo at the Oz goes over to Howard’s place and asks “would you like to take this opportunity to opologise to President Obama for having made remarks at your time as Prime Minister that Obama is a leader that terrorists support”?
This story would go on for weeks. Yes the Australian people would be FASCINATED to see if Howard could finally and rightfully say SORRY for something that he really should!
Remember how the journos would never leave Latham alone for anything? Well this would be HUGE!
Fair enough. They can do that if they want. I suppose it’d make for an easy headline. Has Rudd made any statement yet asking for an apology from Howard and explanations from current Liberal members of where they stand on the issue? It’s certainly a very easy point for them to put across should there be any questions about ‘phonegate’ during QT this week (which you’d assume there will be).
the government has called upon the liberal party just last week to apologise for Howards remarks, it was met with a deafeningt silence.
LOL Hypocrites!
It’d be pretty silly for the media to miss this opportunity to try and get some answers from Liberal members. I’d just ask each member as they show up for parliament tomorrow. You’re bound to get some idiotic backbencher that will support Howard’s statements from last year still.
It’d all make for a very easy story to sell a few papers and get a few more hits on your online stories.
Yes ltep. Now, we know how to sell newspapers. Not like some of those scribes that should really be put out to pasture.
Here’s your story News Ltd. Get Howard to apologise, and it’s legit.
Wilson Tuckey?
I’m surprised that no-one in the Labor Party has pointed out that if Howard had won the election he would be Prime Minister right now, and our government would be in the middle of a REAL diplomatic crisis, with Howard having no way out but to grovel to Obama for forgiveness.
Ok, so you can say it’s “Alternative History”, but one thing’s for certain: it retrospectively justifies a vote for Labor all by itself and should be used to kill off any notion that the Libs were best on relations with the US. We would be in deep doo-doo as of now.
Turnbull’s remarks the other day about whether Obama is more than just “presence and style” are pretty foot-in-mouth as well. It was such a condescending remark, the kind of thing no-one in the Liberal Party would utter if Obama didn’t happen to be black. In effect Turnbull was labelling Obama as insubstantial and based more on spin than substance. He was also flagging diplomatic trouble if Obama didn’t toe the line on trade relations. Turnbull has no sense of proportion when it comes to making himself out to be a genius in all matters, economic and now diplomatic, and no sense of perspective when it comes to who he tries to belittle down with his plonking put-downs. Obama will be President of the US in a couple of months, after an election campaign ten-thousand time more gruelling than anything the silvertail Rainmaker has had to go through. But Turnbull is speaking of him as if he was a newly installed tinpot ruler of some Pacific island state.
The Libs have gone international in their arrogance. Not satisfied with being “born to rule” just Australia, now they’re passing judgement on the American President’s fitness for office, for Christ’s sake!
What a coincidence! I have exactly the same concerns about Turnbull!
I commend him though for getting rid of the lunatic petrol excise policy.
BB, last week Rudd and a couple of ministers said that the libs should apologise to Obama and bought up the Howard remarks, i dont know whether it was because of the ongoing election headlines or sheer ignoring it but other than a small mention it didnt get any oxygen.
newspoll tomorrow night folks, then we’ll see if phonegate and Turnbulls constant posing in the media all weekend will have any effect, i bet Rudd and co are shaking in their boots, i think i’ll be too scared to look, it might just be time for the honeymoon to be over and the dreaded narrowing.
‘Phonegate’ will have no effect I’d imagine. I don’t think anything major has happened that would logically effect polls.
Well Turnbull being agains tthe ABC learning “bailout’ (such as it is), is sure to make him popular:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/09/2414528.htm?section=justin
He compares it to Ansett falling over. Yep Malcolm losing out on holiday flights is the same as suddenly having 1000 daycare centres shut… Glad to know he understands how easy it is for parents to find a place to take care of their kids while they work.
I listened to Alan Kohler today. He was passably objective when on after Lateline until they replaced him recently.
But today after the Barry Cassidy pukefest Kohler rattled my cage.
Twice he referred to the Australian “recession” that we are apparently in the midst of without any evidence to support his statement or any attempt to demonstrate that we are in recession.
The fact is that on the application of any recognised mathematical formula we are not, to my knowledge, in recession, and the economy, thanks to the Labor Government’s initiatives, continues to tick over adequately, albeit at a slower rate than during the Howard wasted halcyon years of the China boom.
This man stated a week or so ago that he had no idea as to where we were heading or as to what is going on in the world of finance.
I would have thought that with that degree of insight into the deficiencies of his analytical abilities he might have been better served leaving such analysis to people who do, rather than following the Liberal party tactic of shouting down the economy.
I thought the technical definition of recession was something to do with 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. We haven’t even had one quarter of negative growth yet have we?
Ltep#613, your second “effect” should be an “affect”. Pedantic, I know, but still….
Ltep, that’s what I thought too.
fulvio, barry is turning into a shanahan/akerman clone right before our eyes. Each week he comes more shrill and desparate in his labor party bashing. He must really hate Rudd
yep. I guess Kohler doesn’t need pesky data or proof to justify what he knows… it’s seems most financial commentators love to call a recession about 6 months out, and if they do refer to data they preface it with “technically”. As in, “while technically Australia is not in a recession…”
You’re right on both counts, but journoconomists like to be the first to “predict” it. So he’s probably saying “Well when the figures for the next quarter come out we’ll have negative growth and that will be transfer into the next quarter as well so we may as well be in a recession”.
Stupid, but it gives him, and anyone else saying the same kind of crap, attention.
He wouldn’t be Robinson Crusoe there. I suspect there isn’t a person alive who’s got the answer to this multi-faceted, intertwined, far-reaching mess. I’m guessing poor old Obama won’t be able to do anything much to stem the tide. Dubya’s already put almost a trillion dollars into it, with negligible effect.
Presumably (if one can make presumptions about this sort of thing) it will right itself in good time. Last time things got this bad with “the economy” it took a World War to shock the system back into eventual normalcy. All going well the “cure” this time won’t be so drastic (worse than the disease). But if not a war then I see no precipitous event to shock the system into recovery, just a long painful rebalancing.
True Cuppa, but most of us don’t pontificate and extrapolate a definite outcome (recession) based on our self acknowledged ignorance.
I think Barry Cassidy is OK. The old codger who sat in the middle on Insiders this morning who writes for the Courier Mail is a Liberal supporter I reckon. By the way, that other bloke who sat where Milne ewww sits (forgot his name) is worried about Obama’s inexperience. He “HOPES” Obama can handle it he said. Don’t worry Fish Face, Obama is coming off a very low base in the line of Presidents!
With time and as more information becomes available we will know if we will fall into recession. All eyes will be on employment figures and the next company reporting period.
True Judith, but I wasn’t talking about demanding an apology. That’ll never happen, and if I was Turnbull, I wouldn’t feel bound to apologize for one of Howard’s crazy remarks made over a year ago.
What I was suggesting was the Rudd puts it in the public’s minds that IF they had re-elected Howard, right now we’d be in a pretty pickle with the new President. A sort of retrospective justification in peiople’s minds for them to ponder over and perhaps think to themselves, “Well, I’ve been having my doubts about voting Labor, but it’s true, we would be screwed now if I’d stuck with Howard. All in all, voting for Labor was a good idea.”
A sort-of anti-buyer’s remorse message.
Fulvio, yeh, he rushes in where angels fear to tread. I’m not making excuses for his pontificating from a position of admitted ignorance. It puzzles me that an economics commentator wouldn’t think it prudent to keep his mouth shut if he couldn’t think of anything sensible to say. Sometimes it appears they yabber inanely simply because they can (ie have an audience).
Most people think Bush is stupid anyway, so they probably think it is true.
That was Tim Blair who said “don’t write McCain off yet” two weeks ago!
I don’t think we need to take much he says seriously after that piece of hilarity.
I agree with Oz on Kohler.
Having missed the boat with predicting the GFC, he doesn’t want to miss out on predicting the next chapter of misery. It’s what I’ve been saying over and over again: they’re falling over themselves, shouldering each other out of the way to be more negative than the next bloke. This has a bad effect on a jittery market. Whereve you turn all you hear is misery and gloom. No one wants to be left off the boat this time, so it’s better to predict disaster and then hope the viewers, happy that things didn’t turn out so bad after all, forget your prognostications in the general euphoria. No-one ever got punished for being too gloomy when things turned out happily in the end. They only get punished for being too optimistic.
What irks me about the “Insiders” is that they get so much of their confident predictions pretty-well totally wrong. Yet they just mopve onto the next prediction as if nothing happened. Eventually one of them will be right, and then that’s all we’ll hear about for months afterwards. I must say though that many of their predictions are based on how they will react, as in “Political commentators will be unhappy about xxx”, as if they are not political commentators themselves, with the power to make their opwn predictions about their own reactions come true.
On “Insiders” and confident predictions (i.e. Heiner will be the end of Rudd): WHERE HAS PIES GONE? Was that last bag of hot dogs too much for his waistline? Couldn’t he fit through the studio door?
Tim Blair is Andrew Bolt’s ideological godfather and journalistic mentor.
Anyone denying that is an idiot. The average consumer has no idea about abstract economic indicators that actually are nothing but an indication of what they’re doing anyway. But when they hear those figures being spun into “We’re heading for recession, household spending is going to freeze as families put away their savings” what do they do? Put away their savings!
Yesterday I was at Bondi Junction Westfield (Sydney Eastern Suburbs biggest shopping centre) and it was virtually empty. Every other time I’ve been it’s been packed. This is an affluent area and most of the shops there are more expensive designer outlets.
HAH good question.
No doubt a Marcel Marceau routine on his nightly ABC News appearance would be highly stimulating, in its way.
The domestic Liberals will be worried about the election of Obama having a positive effect for Rudd in the future and it is in their blood to also hate anybody not on the neocon side. You can bet the murdoch papers and the LNP will be trying hard to ruin his image with the Australian people.
It is a joke that we have a junior nobody like Turnbull what amounts to slagging off at Obama. Turnbull is a basically a nobody whose claims to fame are stuffing up with FAI and giving away $10 million of tax for a rainmaking machine powered by magic. He also made a lot of money during the economic boom times, then again if he didn’t he would be basically the only banker who didn’t.
The guy is himself close to being a political imbecile yet he thinks he has some authority to voice concerns (try and undermine) President Elect Obama. The guy who just did a two year election campaign beating off the meanest nastiest and toughest people in the business and, having the eyes of the world focused heavily on him, including business and economists and the like in the process.
Turnbull yet again proves he is more like Howard than not – do anything, say anything, destroy anything as long as it might help you with votes in the long run.
He was in the Sunday News Ltd. tabloids today with an article about how Obama is going to move away from free trade, which is going to kill us all.
He didn’t stop to question Bush’s economic policies that caused 240,000 Americans to lose their jobs last month.
Nor did he mention that $50 billion farm subsidy bill the U.S. congress passed last year at the urging of a supposed free market President.
I must say I found it completely believable that Bush didn’t know what the G20 was. I didn’t know myself until about 2 weeks ago and I’m ten times smarter than Bush if I say so myself (so is my stuffed turtle by the way). Why has no-one considered the possibility that Bush DID say “uh, Kevin dude, what’s the G20?” and that everyone is covering up for him out of polite embarrassment that the leader of the free world is a moron?
William, you know what they say, “Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt”.
Gee, fancy that. So Fish Face told us all not to write off McCain yet. I reckon he couldn’t pick his nose in front of a mirror!
Wasn’t the plan to fire Iodine crystals into clouds?
Did he stop to consider that areas in drought generally lack clouds?
This was after the brilliant analysis that ignored the fact Obama was leading in Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa. They seemed to imply that Obama needed Virginia, Indiana and Florida to win.
Of course he won all of them, but that’s another story.
Genearally the only ones they get right are the ones where they predict a story will “not go away” – which is code for, I’ve already written the stroy – expect to see it in tomorrow’s paper. Milne is especially good (bad?) at doing that.
He may or may not have said it but there would be no need to ‘cover up for him out of polite embarrassment’ if the details of the conversation hadn’t been leaked to begin with.
I still think, however, that the most likely explanation is that The Australian simply invented the whole story.
I believe it is habit with journalists now days to think that you are not doing your job unless you can write a piece dissing the government. It is common practice to be negative and to look for negatives. Even Crikey has gone this way and is beginning to morph into a typical MSM attitude and in danger of becoming no better. They all needs to find an angle to run down Rudd, Swan etc. as though that proves they are something.
It is a simple matter to find a negative angle on anything with government policy and actions as you will always find someone with a contrary opinion and their will always be some who miss out and there will always be alternative ways to do something. Too easy to go down this path and it seems the more trivial the better.
Why has The Australian stopped writing about it. They are not protecting Rudd that’s for sure.
was just reading the original story, and the thing that strikes me is how long it takes to get to the G20 line… Poor journalism if the line was true – surely you would lead with that fairly startling fact?
Though Franklin is trying a sort of conversational new journalism style rather than a lead article.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24549090-5013871,00.html
Presumably the Dark Lord has told them to stop. He now has to deal with the Obama-Rudd world rather than the Bush-Howard world, so he needs to tread carefully.
Chris Mitchell was at this dinner party. Maybe one of Rudd’s staffers was mocking Bush’s intelligence, then Mitchell added this to the fact Rudd had taken a phone call from Bush that evening, and sort of improvised to two things together.
To me reporting and entertaining have merged together. People LIKE reading a slant on everything, ‘just the facts’ reporting is considered old fashioned.
Why else does The Australia fill their website with opinion pieces and blogs, instead of say investigative articles?
Centre, the Australian would feel obliged to not reveal their source if they have any understanding of journalistic ethics or a desire to continue receiving inside information on the Government.
I agree though, that it’s very odd the Australian would not publish anything, not even to verify the integrity of their own material.
That being said, it’s not an issue that will destroy the Government in any way so the time to move on has well and truly come.
Virtually every single news outlet in the country has gone this way.
Sad to say I think you’re right – though it’s been around for a while. There’s a reason Alan Jones and co rate better than the ABC.
People generally like to listen to people who think like they think so they can think that the way they think is the way people should think.
Rupert Murdoch will be making across-the-board cuts to his Australian operations. With any luck, Pies will be relegated to lunch room duties.
Yeah very true. But the fact The Oz has gone for it as well means they can’t be considered much better than the News Ltd tabloids.
I guess it is the best way to get hits, which is what pays the bills.
It’s not all bad though, Megalogenis is worth reading still.
It is quite sad though, because it means people have lost the sense of how hard it actually is to properly understand something. The brash judgment is considered superior to the well considered opinion.
It doesn’t help when people who are meant to know things, like about running the world economy, have just proven that actually had NFI.
Did he announce this in one of his speeches?
They could lose half their staff and it wouldn’t matter.
I should add it’s also why blogs are rarely too diverse in the views.
Bolt’s blog is just a shock blog; ditto Piers’. Those who can’t be bothered ringing up Alan Jones, go on to Bolt’s blog and are comforted by what they read, and thus have no problems with what they right.
And to be honest, it’s why PB leans to the left. Sure there are some who go on blogs for a fight, or who genuinely love a hot debate, but just as I wouldn’t join a conversation at a pub full of young Liberals, I stay clear of right wing blogs, and go for the more friendly crowd here.
whoops Freudian slip perhaps?
I meant, of course “what they write”.
Grog, I recently visited a right wing blog I’d posted at once or twice a while ago and went to post something new only to find I had been banned.
I think many bloggers are violently opposed to having people disagree with them, which sort of doesn’t make sense to me at all.
I think the right wing bloggers would be welcome here.
Mate, bring it on!
which one? to be honest ltep I don’t know any right wing blogs besides the bolt and piers’ ones.
I have no problems with people who disagree with me, I just don’t like the ones who are violently opposed to me!
ShowsOn at 653
Murdoch:
The Age, 7 November 2008
http://www.theage.com.au/national/murdoch-to-slash-jobs-at-papers-nine-sheds-staff-20081106-5jdc.html
Grog, it’s called A Western Heart ( http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/ ) It’s probably not a good idea reading blogs like that. It can be a little depressing.
Wow, nice to know it isn’t only the Fairfax press that is going down the drain.
660 thanks ltep, I’ll be sure to put it on my blocked list! Just read one post – “President B. Hussein Reveals his inner a**”
No point reading any further…
We went out of our way to get GP reinstated, so I think the evidence is there to support that
Wow, I never knew he was banned!
you guys have no idea just how long i lurked on the outskirts of this blog before i was game to post, that was untill i thought bugga it i’m missing all the fun, now you cant shut me up.
This blog could quite easily have become right-leaning, had the election result been different. Steven Kaye, Nostradamus (and others who I’ve forgotten) would still be filling it with gloating “Told ya so’s!”
It was short but sweet
Look, I wasn’t saying we’re all bleeding heart lefties here – and thank God we’re not.
With regard to the views expressed on blogs though, it always comes back to the owner/moderator. William’s posts are factual rather than opinion, so there’s no urge to abuse as you find on other sites.
Props to William for keeping things pretty much on the level. (suck up over – I did afterall get my first snip last week, freakin rule #2!)
News Ltd closed at around $12.40 a share last Friday.
10 years ago they were trading at $14 and as high as $28 at the peak of the dot com boom. However the $12.40 includes a two for one share split therefore their shares are worth $6.20 compared to 10 years ago. Also their yields are among the lowest on the ASX. This is a company that should not be anywhere near as affected by the GFC as finance stocks.
Same here… I can’t even remember how I got here. Most likely someone linked it in either Matt Price’s blog or Blogocracy. Read for a bit, then dived in mid-way through last year.
A few have been lost along the way…
Wonder what ever happened to ‘voter boy across the water’ he was in the finance industry in England from memory – would’ve been good to hear some inside info on the GFC
Oh no, GP was OK. Bring back Nostraldamus and Steven Kaye I reckon.
What about the So Says Snoopy guy?
Cedric Conan? Pretty sure William banned him.
I did, and I received weird emails for some time afterwards for my efforts. Snoopy/Moose has been banned twice, most recently after returning under a new name during the WA campaign. You occasionally seem him on the News Ltd blogs. Banned Steven Kaye as well. Just plain didn’t like the guy, and it was my ball back then to play with as I saw fit. Nostradamus was never banned – in fact, I don’t think he ever posted here much, he was mostly one of Palmer’s.
Didn’t Cedric have a female sock puppet name as well? It was the same sort of “so says” posts, but from a female name.
The “female” RWer I remember had a name I’ve forgotten, the one who wrote in simplistic couplets such as:
Was just having a look at some of the post frm the archives (didn’t realise they covered the ones from the old site). Geez, we were a nerotic bunch last year!
Lot of names no longer with us.
For a quick memory lane trip, this was the blog that Samantha Maiden wrote about in The Oz (Newpoll 53-47! the horror!!!)
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/05/newspoll-53-47/comment-page-1/#comments
Oh geez, it comes flooding back to me…. thought that memory was gone for good!
A year later and we’re still talking about him!
Give the man his due, he was a feather ruffler of the first order.
I miss him.
Similar here, except I came in from Wikipedia – whoever writes the election articles on Wiki (and particularly the individual electorate articles) uses PB as a reference a whole lot, so I ended up linking straight to here. I lurked for ages in the comments bit because I didn’t want to get involved with the 1000 post US threads.
Can’t see any posts from me. Hopefully that means I was out letterboxing!
It was “tabitha”
Eg:
Oh dear, I didn’t need to be reminded.
ShowsOn at 674: I believe you are thinking of Tabitha, and you are misidentifying the hand behind the sock puppet.
Found you on post 1107 ShowsOn..
Anyhoo this has become too introspective for me (and yes I know I started it).
Night all.
That was Tabitha
William,
Come-on now, you can satisfy our curiosity now can’t you?
The unseen hand didn’t belong to you, did it? You weren’t just stirring the pot eh?
You know who it was?
It was Adam Smith’s “invisible hand”.
I believe I read a half hearted mea culpa from the puppet master after Willim threatened to out him …
Steven Kaye & friends were great at reading the tealeaves weren’t they. Compare this with the current reality.
The world has changed so much since then…
I don’t recall that, FS – you might be thinking of another sock puppet.
I remember ESJ going on about getting a blog at The Australian. Did that ever happen, or was he just crapping on?
Yes I could be, William … that’s why I didn’t name him.
Would you really be surprised if even GP got a blog at The Australian?
ESJ never crapped on about factual issues. I believe he had the offer but things never worked out.
A pity, as he would have stood out as a moderate intellectual against the current backdrop of right wing lunatics on that paper.
A couple more blogs that would have to be considered right wing. Tim Blair’s and JA’s at the Oz.
Some of their posters and TPD could benefit from this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/07/2413243.htm?section=world
Ahh interesting.
Have they been able to make souls yet?
JOKE!
Only if they experiment with stem cells from an ass….
I would strongly suspect that CO would have to be in Uncle Rupert’s sights at the moment. She might try for a job with Malcolm.
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Fantastic, intellectually stimulating subjects which are really arousing great enthusiasm with the readership. Yes??? Errr, probably not.
More cash for car industry to promote production of fuel efficient vehicles:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24626910-601,00.html
Sheridan has been at the crystal ball again (the one that you shake & snow flies around inside) and is able to foretell Obama’s future domestic and foreign policy, especially as it related to Australia. Similar to Turnbull in some ways. Took me 3 hours to read this as you can onle take it in small doses. Example here! I wonder if it is chocolate?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24617886-7583,00.html
Well it is not as though we didn’t expect the neocon press to go to work undermining the credibility of Obama. How on earth can this idiot make predictions about someone he hardly has any data on. It is the same tactic they are trying on Rudd, try to undermine what he does by saying he isn’t doing anything.
We are going to get a vicious rear guard action trying to save the right-wing past. There will be a flailing of limbs in agony, a gnashing of teeth, predictions of gloom and doom as these ancient creatures gradually go under.
I think one of the casualties of the last 8 years should also be the murdoch press and all others of their ilk. A dishonest right-wing media have been just as bad for the world as the ones they have championed. Pandering to and promoting fear, bigotry, intolerance, violence, greed, selfishness etc.
Murdoch has to deal with the Obama-Rudd-Hu Jiantao world.
Be fun if Rudd is telling Hu JianTao that that Murdoch media lot are a bunch of trouble makers. How about some alternatives.
Let Warren Buffet buy up News Ltd Australia and FoxNews in the USA. Now that would be fun.
Probably just sitting back waiting for the share price to bottom out and pick it all up for a song.
Yeah, it would be funny. might be able to get the print media back to where it used to be. A responsible organ for dissemination of news and information.
Scorpio, the other possibility is that Sheridan is absolutely wrong and that new opportunities is what Australian and US businesses need to give them some confidence in the future.
I assume he didn’t have a full analysis of how well, Bush has gone in the past four years or how well the rightwingers are expected to go in Western Australia, California, Alaska and New Zealand in the next three or four years did he? I’ll read his story later as I have things to do.
Especially if the source was themselves.
Well fancy that… Lord Turnbull now accusing a journalist of making something up about him. I didn’t think journalists would do that eh ltep? Perhaps we should have the AFP investigate…
http://news.smh.com.au/national/rein-snub-claims-an-invention-turnbull-20081110-5l2x.html
BB, if you have a bit of time to spare, I would love to see your analysis of that Sheridan article.
It’s quite possible that it is even beyond your amazing skills to determine where he is coming from, where he intended to go with it and what he intended that we derive from it.
Quite an incredible piece of “journalism” really. And they wonder why they are going broke!!!
Dario, isn’t it funny how the Opposition don’t mind it in the least when the MSM make up rubbish about Rudd & Labor, but are highly indignant when the boot is on the other foot.
How dare they! The total insolence of it all! The MSM are there to do “our” bidding and make us look good to the electorate!!!
But of course everyone knows the electorate got it wrong when they went in to the polling booths last year… the Liberals are still our rightful Government and the ALP is simply warming the benches until the ruling party is returned triumphantly next election, to much fanfare and adulation. Lord Turnbull tells us so.
With such a complicit media, the Opposition are really going for poor old Rudd now.
This is a concerted program to try and change public perception of the PM and pave the way for their inevitable return to government in 2010 which was so cruelly stolen from them.
[PM conceited, insecure and odd: Abbott] Talk about the kettle & billy.
http://news.smh.com.au/national/pm-conceited-insecure-and-odd-abbott-20081110-5l6l.html
And here’s the evidence of a concerted Coalition/media attack to try and end Labor’s “honeymoon” and reclaim government by default.
http://news.smh.com.au/national/pm-conceited-insecure-and-odd-abbott-20081110-5l6l.html
I doubt more than a handful that voted for the ALP last election would take anything Tony Abbott ever says seriously again. IMO the guy’s days as a politican are far, far behind him.
Hahahahahahahaha more prognostication about the ‘end of the honeymoon’… it almost sounds like a Shanahan or Milne article! They’ve got nothing.
God I’m bored, do we have any polls coming out today/tomorrow?
AC Nielson tomorrow maybe?
In contrast, we all wish we could forget the fact Tony Abbott exists.
The Ghost of Bernie Banton will forever haunt the ex-seminarian …
Tony Abbott passing judgement on the quality of the brave campaigner’s character: “Let’s be up front about this, I know Bernie is very sick, but just because a person is sick doesn’t necessarily mean that he is pure of heart in all things.”
And all for the sake of saving a dying hero in Howard! Lest we forget.
Car industry gets $3.4 billion:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24628026-601,00.html
Who thinks Australia will have a car building industry in 20 years time? What about 40 years?
What a waste of money….3.4b gone…what’s the budget forcast now!
96b in debt here we come!
This is what we need Glen! More Liberals willing to tell every worker in the car industry that they should get a different job.
Honeymoon is officially over, Abbot said so.
We would if the short-sighted idiots at Holden hadn’t scrapped the Australian designed and built hybrid Commodore back in 1999/2000. The international car industry deserves everything that’s coming too. They tried to stifle innovation and milk the petrol-fuelled combustion engine for everything it was worth and now it’s all crashing down around them. Unfortunately, the workers are the ones who are paying the brunt, as usual, but it was the execs who made the poor decisions and, as usual, they’ll be walking away with millions.
I’d rather have a deficit and have well funded infrastructure and services then have tens of billions of surplus’ and nothing to show for it, a la 11 years of Howard.
So lets just throw away money to failing industry.
The Libs didnt do that for Ansett and it was the right decision.
The last thing we need is Rudd blowing the surplus on unprofitable industry for absolutely nothing!
Does our industry have the skills to make small energy efficient cars that can compete on price with the Asian imports?
Or are we only skilled at making big cars like Commodores and Falcons?
If we didnt create a surplus there would be no 3.4b for Rudd to throw away Oz god dont you understand anything!
How buggered would we be in the GFC if we didnt have money to throw around?
“You” didn’t create anything.
I doubt you can name a single policy that Howard implemented to “create prosperity”.
The Howard surplus’ were created by a combination of millions of years of natural processes giving us a lot of crap to dig up and sell and the selling off of public assets. The country is worse off for it. The rest of the OECD was INCREASING investment during that period and they didn’t have the money for it. We HAD the money and your bloody legend of a PM wasted it all. That’s his legacy and nothing you can say or do will change that so don’t even bother.
No, what it did with Ansett was not allow Air New Zealand to buy it, because Air New Zealand is 1/4 owned by Singapore airlines, which is owned by the Singaporean government.
So at the end of the day, Costello was just an economic racist / protectionist who couldn’t handle the Singaporean government investing in Australia. He stopped Shell from buying Woodside Petroleum too remember. So he has a track record of protectionism.
I’m glad you’re attacking this, because Turnbull won’t.
Can we even compete with Asian imports? I think instead of trying to compete in markets where we have no hope we should either try to make our own markets (big, efficient cars?) or stick developing IP.
But we were designing and making hybrid cars years before the Prius became all trendy here. Holden didn’t think there was money it so they gave up. And what’s GM’s profit now? Take that you twats.
The weekly talking-point email clearly hasn’t come out yet.
Glen’s at his best when he thinks for himself.
The ALP do thank the Libs for all the hard work in building up the surplus, and its with the greatest pleasure that they will direct it to the workers. When Kennett left that thumpng great surplus in Victoria I’m sure the Bracks Brumby cabinet were thrilled. What by the way is the point of having a surplus if not to spend in times of economic crisis. Hello, we have an economic crisis, therefore any responsible government would do the same. Oh sorry I forgot, its not the countries surplus its little Johnnies, silly of me.
If Labor has to thank the Howard government for the surplus; the Howard government should’ve thanked Labor for completely recreating the economy so that it could create surpluses.
But they never did, so there’s no need for Labor to thank the Howard government.
Glen, I hope your heroes in parliament take your stand on this. It will ensure their continued occupation of the opposition benches for some time. What you are essentially advocating is the destruction of thousnda of jobs. Nice one.
Rudd’s a “mystery man”, “conceited”, “insecure”, “odd” and “chilly”. All of these items are still listed on butchers paper in Turnbull’s office. A week of brainstorming, with the occasional involvement of Chris Mitchell*, and this is the best they can produce!
(On another page, there are a number of dot-pointed items mysteriously crossed out during an afternoon tea break: “the narrowing”, “honeymoon”, “Heiner”, “enough mud”, “Henry (W-R-O-N-G)” and “Pizza Supreme (x 4, Hockey)”.
* Who is becoming increasingly desperate in light of his boss’ recent forebodings. Oh, those neocons know all about loyalty don’t they!
The Libs haven’t learnt a very important lesson. Trying to create a new perception when the opposite is in full swing is impossible. You can only enhance an already growing perception. When a leader is popular you don’t go about making him unpopular by attcking him. You wait until he does unpopular things and becomes unpopular first, otherwise you end up becoming very unpopular yourself.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/10/2415200.htm?section=justin
The 75 year old flamingo that was bashed in Adelaide is getting better. Good work, zoo keepers.
Turnbull as the leader of the “Government in exile”, is a bit miffed that they are not getting access to the levers of power as they rightfully should.
http://news.smh.com.au/national/oppn-wants-abc-learning-bailout-details-20081110-5l1z.html
Meanwhile, a 69 year old dinosaur is still in a critical condition after being mauled in the Bennelong Zoo … by a tiger (rrrrrrr) …
For a better understanding of just how the greed on Wall Street contributed to the GFC, this article, although only outlining just a small part of the problem, is probably the best I have seen.
The greed of the players involved here verges on the obscene and shows just how the regulators were asleep at the wheel during the last three or four years.
But as 2007 progressed, the mortgage business began to fall apart — and the impact was brutal. As mortgages started to fail, the debt ratings on CDOs were cut; anyone left holding the products was locked in a downward spiral because no one wanted to buy something that was collapsing. Among the biggest victims was Merrill.
In October 2007, the firm shocked investors when it announced a $7.9 billion write-down related to its exposure to mortgage CDOs, resulting in a $2.3 billion loss, the largest in the firm’s history. Semerci was forced out, later landing at a London-based hedge fund, the Duet Group.
Merrill’s board also ousted O’Neal. On top of the $70 million in compensation he was awarded during his four-year tenure as chief executive, O’Neal departed with an exit package worth $161 million.]
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/09/business/09magic.php?page=1
Westpoll is out
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=107194
Rudd’s $10.4b economic stimulus package looks small bikkies compared to the Chinese one just announced which saw a 2% rise in the Aussie market this morning.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/09/business/yuan.php
I can’t see that lasting for too long Frank. Once electors realise that the election promises have no chance of being delivered and were just “spin” to suck them in, there will be a backlash.
It’s already happening with the Stadium, and the 3% in savings for the Public Service, especially as the Police Commisioner has come out and said there will have to be cuts in Frontline Policing to achieve the savings.
And Brendon Grylls is looking for more money for the Bush from the proposed BHP deal.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=107193
Have to admit, Grylls is trying his best to shore up National support in regional areas.
In other news, Kev The Big Spender has injected billions more into an uncompetitive industry that continues to produce cars nobody wants to buy. Why oh why do we persist with this nonsense?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24628026-5018011,00.html
No 744
Scorpio have you not accepted that Labor lost the election? Get with the program.
The Bush Administration have a cheek in pushing China to help bail out their incompetence and greed. Especially after only 18 months ago making all sorts of threatening gestures towards China in relation to the Taiwan issue.
The beauty about this package is that it will be of great benefit to Australia and help keep our mineral export income running reasonably strongly, but not unfortunately at previous high levels.
This is where Rudd’s good relations with the Chinese leadership is going to pay off in spades. Obama understands this and is going to develop close ties with Rudd to try and take some advantage of our great China relationship.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/09/business/yuan.php
No 728
Oz, you can criticise Howard all you like but you can’t really talk when Rudd is throwing money hand over fist at our car industry. It’s practically a government department now given how much assistance they’re giving it. $6.2 billion / 65000 workers = ~$95,000 subsidy per worker. An absolute outrage.
GP @ 747,
We’re not the only ones.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24626908-5017906,00.html
So GP, you’d rather close it down in Australia and have all those employees in the auto and related industries out of a job? Well, we always knew the Libs were no friend of the workers…
$6.2 billion over 13 years GP
The government should’ve put strict conditions on it. Such as they can’t manufacturer any more petrol powered cars after 2025.
No 751
Yeah, but at least the US Auto industry actually has a sufficient body of demand and diverse product. And they’re much closer to green cars too, with far more models available with hybrid engines. The Australian industry by comparison is a dinosaur – the Ford Falcon engine has roots in the 1960s, indeed it still uses the same cast-iron block.
I doubt they could restrict export standards, but I would say those kinds of measures are likely to be introduced on Australian emission standards some time in the near future. No need to tie the money it… you can just change the law.
No 752
No, that’s a straw man. The very reason why our car industry is so uncompetitive and ancient is because the Government has been propping it up since time immemorial and much of that assistance has been unconditional. That doesn’t mean I want it shut down – but the only way it will ever be self-sustainable is if the Government stops subsidising dinosaurs. Real competition is the only way you get real innovation and build competitive advantage.
No 753
Can the government give my family business $95,000 per worker too?
Now for a bit of light “relief”. Make love not war.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/64909/IM-A-SEX-ADDICT-25-year-old-woman-with-medical-condition-slept-with-1000-men.html
GP @ 758
Don’t forget, your hero dished out the largesse to doomed farmers in much the same way …
Here’s Ross Gittens in 2002:
“If you thought the notion of farmers and their political toadies wanting to ‘capitalise the profits, but socialise the losses’ was a thing of the past, wake up. It’s happening now.
It got little publicity in the cities but, just last financial year, 2001-02, Australian farmers had their most profitable year in yonks. From a recent average of $5.1 billion a year, farm income almost doubled to $9.8 billion.
The latest estimate is that, this year, income will slump to $3.7 billion. So what happens? Out comes the begging bowl.
Farming must be the only for-profit industry in the country that passes round the hat whenever profits slip. If any city businesses tried that, we’d laugh them to scorn. But when Dad and Dave do it, we dig deep. And if we don’t, our vote-chasing politicians do it for us.”
Did your family business receive any of the rivers of gold that flooded rural Australia during Howard’s prime ministership? (Let’s face it – he was only a free market man when it suited him!)
Gittins
I’m sure that doesn’t count, as that was by a Liberal government
Nathan Rees is apparently the premier of Victoria…
http://www.premier.nsw.gov.au/contact.html
It would be interesting to know how much public money Howard used to “subsidise” private health …
The Age, 30 September 2007
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/pm-of-ulterior-motives/2007/09/29/1190486626917.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Again Cuppa, that’s just not fair… only subsidies by Labor governments count
Let’s not forget the handouts (shamefully maintained by Rudd, I must say) to those schools no less desperate* than Macquarie Fields High School or Moree Public School:
“Trinity is the biggest winner: its funding in the 2005-08 period was $14.7 million higher than it would have been under the old system. And assuming it maintains student numbers, Trinity will receive an additional $19.1 million when the next four-year funding deal goes through next year. Other big winners are Kinross Wallaroi at Orange ($9.4 million), The King’s School ($9.2 million), Newington College ($8.4 million), PLC Croydon ($6.1 million), Meriden at Strathfield ($5 million), St Andrew’s Cathedral School ($4.3 million) and Scots ($4.1 million).”
Source: SMH, Oct 2007.
* E.g. King’s is struggling with only “15 cricket fields, 13 rugby fields, 12 tennis courts, five basketball courts, three soccer fields, two climbing walls, a 50-metre swimming pool, gym, boatshed, and indoor rifle range.”
Fossil fuel subsidies…? Or does that again not count?
By the way, for anyone who couldn’t be bothered watching QT, the Libs are still talking about the apparently “bungled” deposit guarantee and the “leaked” phone conversation.
Oz
did anyone take talcum to task re his remarks about mrs rudd.
Don’t you get it! Giving millions of dollars to private school is about choice!
Not in the first 45 minutes, that’s all I saw. Was a bit of an anti-climax after a two week build up.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/10/2415385.htm
Christine Milne elected first Greens deputy leader.
No 766
Every dollar spent on education is a dollar well spent.
We’ll remember that quote when you next complain of funding to an indigineous or Muslim or other non-christian school.
No 769
Still playing the private vs public game. Even Gillard has the maturity to move on from it. The vast majority of private schools are not wealthy – it is a false image portrayed by envious dolts in the Teachers union.
Oh, and how could we forget the sugar industry …
Nov, 2002 (AAP):
“Australia was not prepared to follow the United States and Philippines and corrupt the world sugar market by providing subsidies, Prime Minister John Howard said today. He said a nation of 20 million people could not afford to subsidise the Australian sugar industry and he did not want to add to the corruption of the industry. Mr Howard said Australia’s sugar industry was on its knees because of a very depressed world price rather than because it was competing with subsidised farmers …”
Feb, 2004 (Associate Professor Ann Capling):
“One thing is for certain though: we can expect to see some sweet deals for the Australian sugar industry in the lead-up to the federal election.”
Jun, 2004 (The Age):
“To compensate, the Federal Government announced another big sugar rescue package, but farmers say it is still not enough for them to create their dream of an industry where profit is literally powered by cane. The $444 million sugar package includes $146 million in ’sustainability grants’ and $75 million to help the industry diversify. The sustainability money will give farmers a much-needed extra $2 to $3 a tonne for this year’s harvest.”
Jan, 2006 (SMH):
“‘It’s unfortunate if Australia feels as though it was out-negotiated,’ Jack Roney, chief economist at the Washington DC-based American Sugar Alliance, told AAP. ‘A deal is a deal. I think US negotiators were very wise in excluding sugar from this free trade agreement.’”
“The King’s School ($9.2 million), Newington College ($8.4 million), PLC Croydon ($6.1 million), Meriden at Strathfield ($5 million), St Andrew’s Cathedral School ($4.3 million) and Scots ($4.1 million).”
Yes – King’s, St Andrew’s, Newington, PLC and Scots. Famous for not being wealthy.
No 776
Those are not the only private schools in Australia.
Nope, but they’re the ones that get the most money.
The King’s School principal, Dr Tim Hawkes, going in hard on the “class question” (Aug, 2004):
“‘The stereotyping on Federal Labor’s part, and presumption of wealth … is a political stunt designed to cast King’s as the villain of all educational ailments in the country,’ he said. ‘It’s both irresponsible and unwarranted and scapegoating of the most depressing nature.’ Dr Hawkes said, however, that ‘a good proportion’ of King’s parents would probably vote Labor anyway.”
A good proportion being those whose kids were lucky* enough to get a scholarship!
And by charging each student a fee of merely $16,000 in 2004 (compared to the minimum annual wage in the same year of $23,316), I don’t think King’s was making any presumptions about the wealth of those families sending their kids to the school (without any financial assistance)!
(Dr Hawkes must have got his PhD in the study of parallel universes!)
* I use the word advisedly!
Oh GP, I didn’t realise you had a business employing thousands of people, with many off shoot companies depending on you, that you’d existed here in Australia for 50 years and that you have the opportunity to go green in the coming years. Silly me.
Turnbull & Co seem to be keeping fairly quiet about this. I wonder why?
Could “this” have something to do with it?
Well, fancy that. Built for a political reason. Now I wonder who he is referring to here?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24626721-5013404,00.html
No 781
Would that be the same political reason Rudd’s propping up a dinosaur industry at a cost of $95,000 per worker?
GP, that’s $55,000 less than Howard’s offer of a $150,000 “exit grant” per farmer in Sep, 2007. Why are these workers any different to those in Broadmeadows, Elizabeth etc.?
Gary
“that you have the opportunity to go green in the coming years.”
The only green GP is going to go is green with envy at the Fabs superior economic skills.A bold restructure of inefficient and outdated industries will increase both our competitiveness and our skill base.
Built by Kellog-Brown-Root, aka “Halliburton”… without tender, right in the middle of the Iraq Qar.
War
BB
As much as it pains me,the railway line is crtical to australia’s long term “interests”
The short term imperative was definitely political .The long term brings into play strategic and economic benefits that far outway any initial under utilization.
Of course if Hawke had bought certain elements of the defence review of the late 80’s the railway would have been long built.
the libs are flogging a dead horse with the bungled guarantee, even blind freddie knows it saved the banks and therefore the economy from crashing down, same with the phonegate, both sides say it didnt happen and even if it did nobody except the libs and LTEP cares, Joe Worker is more worried about holding his job or paying his bills, as far as he’s concerned bush can go take a running jump {preferably over the gap after presiding on the meltdown} as far as Joe Worker thinks, he had a funny feeling he never did like that Bush bloke.
there should be a newspoll tonight.
782,
Don’t think so GP. There’s no Federal Election on at the moment.
According to Robert Manne (in The Monthly), Rudd believes that industry policy is “neither backward-looking nor a form of disguised protectionism.”
He notes, however, that “under the influence of neo-liberalism and the market fundamentalists, ‘nation building’ was the not the only descriptor of state action in the economy that was banished from the respectable political lexicon during the Howard years. Also banished was the idea of ‘industry policy’. Governments, we were told, could not ‘pick winners’. All forms of assistance to industry would be exploited by ‘rent seekers’. Industry policy was nothing but a euphemism for protectionism. The market was the only rational allocator of resources.”
Well, I hope that Rudd and Kim Carr have designed this $6.2b package in accordance with some kind of “industry policy” …
Hey, BB.
Did you see my posts at 702 and 709? I would love to see your comments.
Every time I see something like this, for some reason the name Stan Howard pops into my head.
Also I get a strange thought about ethanol.
I know, it’s like a bad smell. Perhaps it’s because of hypocrisy like this (and the blatant $444m bribe given to the sugar industry in the wake of Vaile’s failed FTA negotiation), that our very own Free Market Crusader is lecturing countries such as Nigeria about economic reform!
(Incidentally, the government of Nigeria didn’t ask him back.)
From watching QT today, I think the main lesson today is for the Lib not let Sophie Mirrabella asks anymore questions… Gillard slaughtered her, the Speaker really should have invoked the mercy rule…
And ltep will no doubt be disappointed with Rudd’s answer on the phonegate.
Well there wasn’t an answer. I think that’s all that needs to be said.
Grog, what did the PM say re: the dreaded.. what was it according to Malcolm and Mesmerelda? Some sort of monumental insult to all Americans, via the PM’s leaking of the contents of the phone call? Not forgetting Chris Mitchell being in the next room? Not forgetting Eddixinder’s memorable advice to that novice, the PM, on the diplomatic nuance required in these circumstances, and how he’s probably blown it for all time with the Americans.
Gawd Almighty, I can’t believe it’s getting another run on the 7.30 Report, courtesy of the exceptionally balanced and insightful Michael Brissenden. He’s now quoting the original story in detail! WTF?
Yeah, Brissenden says the story was wrong BUT should still be answered anyway. He even mentioned that Chris Mitchell was at the dinner and drew absolutely no conclusions from that. Whatever happened, apparently it’s all Rudd’s fault.
Who is this pompous git Brissenden when he’s at home?
OMG, I just saw a bit from QT on the 7.30 Report. with Malcolm declaiming who would have thought we’d ever see the day we’d see “a black man” elected as U.S. President. G.P., Glen, anyone who has any clout/influence in the LNP. please get out the big shepherd’s crook and drag him off stage, in any direction, as soon as possible.
“Black man”… I wondered about that myself.
The whole thing about Obama was that he was a well-rounded candidate. To the Rainmaker he’s just another “black”, all “presentation and style”… your classic definition of an “uppity n—er”.
Erm, what?
Are you trying to say Obama isn’t black?
It isn’t a racist term!
B.B., did you have a look at Ad astra’s posting today? Recommended to all PBers. Ditto Peter Martin’s latest.
Maybe, the ABC has become a sort of sheltered workshop for those who would be political reporters?
Glinn, he’s half white. as well. What has his skin colour or racial origins got to do with whether or not he has the capacity to be POTUS?
Harry, could you please link both?
Latest Essential Research has Labor’s lead down from 61-39 to 59-41.
The dreaded narrowing!
Oh the pain the pain
for the fibs that is
Sorry Oz, just saw it on the 7.30 Report. Maybe if you go the the ABC’s website?
It isn’t a racist term (although perhaps “African American” is preferred in certain circles). That wasn’t my point. My point was that of all the good things Obama means to those who vopted for him and billions who didn’t, but would have like to, his “blackness” is the grossest feature. And that’s just what Turnbull picked on.
His mistake was to forget the central tenet of Martin Luther King’s dream:
In referring to Obama’s [i]color[/i] and not “the content of his character” (how could he, after stamping the man as having to prove he is more than just “presence and style”?) Turnbull uttered an awfully crass comment about someone who has suffered, dreamed and positively achieved more than a thousand Malcolm Turnbulls ever could.
Sorry, again, Oz. You can find Ad astra’s stuff at Political Sword, which I usually go to via Possum’s political blog sites.
Although if I saw tonights Newspoll at 59-41, I would be quite happy to see such a figure after the past weeks events.
K thanks, Harry.
Exactly, B.B. Particularly those who vopted for him. We need more vopting, I say. It’d be good for the country, probably end the GFC and stop global warming in its tracks.
I predict the Newspoll 2pp to remain stagnant at 54-46.
814
Newspoll to be 52-48
Just catching up with a few of previous postings about the $ injection into the automotive construction industry. One of the things I’ve not seen mentioned, is the nitty gritty reason you need that industry, i.e, the continuation and continuous redevelopment of being able to make things beyond the automotive industry, the skills, knowledge, the R & D. Obviously, the free market, left to its own devices, has not done this. A government with a wider view of what is needed can prod different, particularly important industries, in different directions. They may not always get it right, but clearly the free market on its own, can’t do it.
815,
In your dreams, GP.
Hmmm, that table in the Essential Research poll on the issues of national importance was interesting. While the overall vote may have shifted TPP, just look at what has happened in the vote on issues of national importance. Also makes some sense of why the usual suspects are trying to damage the PM in relation to national security. Has Crosby Textor removed the stake from its heart to rise again? Where’s the garlic?
“Newspoll to be 52-48
”
Wishful, obscene thinking GP.
No 812
Back to the fiery hell whence you came!
ACA story on 24/7 with Rudd.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mkt=en-au&brand=ninemsn&tab=m164&mediaid=205830&from=39&vid=C23632EC-250A-4968-B9C3-DEB0ED2527E4&playlist=videoByTag:mk:en-AU:vs:0:tag:aunews_auaca:ns:MSNVideo_Top_Cat:ps:10:sd:-1:ind:1:ff:8A&wa=wsignin1.0
That link is obscene, Frank.
Give us a digest of it.
24 Hours with the PM, from Tassie to Sydney. You have to see it to appreciate it.
Hi guys back after getting some chimeric monoclonal antibodies
I little known fact about the Oz Sugar Industry, there used to be a reseach body (funded by Govt and the sugar growers) except the growers decided they did not want to fund it any more.
So the previous Govt in its wisdom says “OK guys, you don’t want to fund your share, we will open up this research to anyone who wants to kick in a few bucks.” The Brazilians, being sneaky bludgers, fund Australia’s pre-eminent Sugar research body thus getting access to Aussie Research.
This research helps nuke the Oz Sugar industry – who is to blame?
797 HSO – he dodged it I have to say.
Geez, Turnbull going on about Obama was as cringe worthy a performance as I’ve seen since Nelson talked about the wheelchair in the back of the Tarago… which isn’t that long ago I guess!
ruawake, welcome back and go those monoclonal beasties. Bloody fascinating science that led to them BTW. The type of medication you’re talking about kept my sister alive for longer than anyone expected. I’d really like to see the government put some real dollars into more of the bio-nano type research in every area, but specifically the medical.
The video was fantastic, Frank. So much for Malcolm, the terminally relevance deprived.
From FC’s link – Gough’s comment on Rudd – “He sees Australia in a world’s context in a way that his predecessors have never done”…
A warning for those in the West. Don’t watch Good News Week (as if you needed to be told anyway) tonight. Julie Bishop is a guest and it’s become a party political. She looks good while she’s bucketing Kevin though. The camera loves her.
Geez Diogenes. I’m trying to eat here!
Did anyone bring up her fondness for other people’s words?
grog @ 825, ta, dodging seems a sensible thing given Mitchell’s proximity. I had the same reaction to Malcolm’s proclaimings on the election of POTUS elect, Barack Obama. Why the hell this merchant banker of dubious capacity to provide sound advice to corporations contemplating mergers, lately Leader of Her Maj’s Opposition, should take it upon himself to declaim as widely as the MSM will enable, his pronouncements on the suitability or otherwise of the POTUS elect, is beyond me.
She’s answered that one already. She was asked whether she preferred lawyers or politicians and she said that both were more trustworthy than journalists, and that has been proven in repeated surveys. She was than asked if she didn’t like journalists and she said not one little bit.
She was asked to do word association. These were some:
Opposition- temporary
Malcolm- Prime Minister
Bipartisanship- overrated
They should have said: “Workchoices”…
Diogenes, that’ll endear her to those that purport to be journos. Sniggle.
Allright, who’s just waiting for Newspoll and sort of just noodling around? Got to admit, I’m also waiting for the Neilson, as himself indoors got done, as it were.
An odd thing to say really. A politican who hates journo is like a cricketer who hates umpires. Sure the bad ones are annoying, but the good ones keep the game going. Does she, like Palin, think they infringe on her freedom of speech?
Gawd, you’ve all gawn quiet. What the hell’s the matter with you lot? You usually can’t get a word in edgeways round here?
No 823
The one they did with Howard last year was better.
Perhaps everyone except us has gotten a life HSO?!
Newspoll prediction? – what was it last time 54-46. Sounds about right. That or 55-45.
Anyone see Talking Heads tonight? Interview with Stephen Mayne – I cracked up when drunk Milne pushed Mayne off stage LOL.
There is a lot of Palin in her performance. She’s rubbing up against the male guest at the moment while they’re dancing together singing Echo Beach.. She just held up a money bag and was asked what it was. She said it was what’s left of the budget surplus after a year of Rudd.
Excuse me while I reach for the sick bag…
Didn’t see it tonight, but it was a classic moment. You have to wonder how many he had under his belt to actually get on stage and do that?
No 840
And she’d be right. Emperor Rudd has no clothes.
You are so right GP, much better if we keep the surplus just in case the world goes into recession and we need to boost spending.
Or to pork barrel before the next election….
They just had a quiz where they were asked who was voted the sexiest politician in Oz. Bishop put on a big pouty face and said The Minister for Sport. She added that she snuck in there with a big smile and flounce.
‘And she’d be right. Emperor Rudd has no clothes.’
last time I looked kevin had his trousers on,unlike other pms (and bears) I could mention.
That’s Keynes, isn’t it. Krugman was saying that governments should go go into debt during a downturn in the economy. Hey, I’ve learn’t something about economics. It’s pretty cool to be able to win a Nobel Prize winners column every morning.
so, Generic Person, @ 839. Glen Milne is a really funny person physically attacking Stephen Maine? This is aprops of what exactly?
btw
the only thing julie bishop does for me is send me into a deep trance
(followed by horrible nightmares about union thugs in dress shops wanting to turn down the lights)
I carry a glove garlic just in case
Ah come on, GNW tonight was hilarious. Bishop was pretty pathetic and tried way to hard to score political points but she got heaps back from the rest of the guests.
Yep… he’s a smart man. The surplus should never be an end.
Ross Gittins on the whole surplus Keynes thingy:
http://business.smh.com.au/business/listen-carefully-he-might-say-the-dword-20081107-5k5n.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Newspoll: 2PP 55-45
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24632961-601,00.html
nice work 3P – you get the kewpie doll!
PPM 62:22 (+3:-3)
In regards to the car industry a couple of points
1we are one of 15 countries that can produce from design to shopfloor
2strategically,a heavy industry capabilty is amust
3transport earns more relative to its input costs
4we suffer the tryanny of distance
5we “made’ the ute etc
Ouch.
So, while we’re waiting, what games do we want to play? Mine is what absolutely cretinous relative by marriage you’ve managed to acquire. I’ve got a ripper. She’s a Lib. voter, of course, and tonight phoned to give me an earful because Mum had been moved into the high dependency unit. It’s all my fault, you see. I’d not thought I could cause dementia.
GP, check it out!
From 54-46 to 55-45, and Rudd PPM 59 to 62, Turnbull PPM 25 to 22!
It’s obscene! (for you anyway!)
What are we waiting for?
New thread.