The latest Roy Morgan face-to-face poll has Labor’s two-party lead up to 58.5-41.5 from 56.5-43.5 a fortnight ago. Labor is up 2.5 per cent on the primary vote to 49 per cent, the Coalition is down 1.5 per cent to 36 per cent and the Greens are steady on 8.5 per cent.
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth
Morgan: 58.5-41.5
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655 Comments
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Looking forward to 8.30 Monday night on the ABC. I expect though, that a number of watchers will cringe at some of the presentation and attempts at cover-up and justification (read lies) that will be a feature of the production.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/navy-chief-torpedo-over-children-overboard/2008/11/14/1226318927477.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
I expect that Turnbull & Co would rather the public be concerned more about “phone gate” than take the trouble to question whether or not they have been “had” by Howard and his cohorts, many of whom are still in the Parliament.
The only way any of this would have relevance is if a) Bush was Obama or b) Kevin headed a conservative party in which case any friction would be very unnatural. I would be far more worried if Bush was back slapping Kevin because the last time POTUS did that Australia went to war.
Shanahan fails to get it:
Rudd did not self-aggrandize himself. The article came out with all the aggrandizement you’d ever need. In fact the article pointed out that Rudd “refused” to comment before it was published.
Apart from the “What’s the G20″ bit, the report covered a perfectly ordinary phone call from one world leader to another, pointing out that Bush had to be persuaded to up the meeting from one of the G7 to one of the G20.Rudd, along with others, managed to change his mind. That is not self-aggrandizement. That is fact.
It seems to me that it’s Chris Mitchell who’s doing the self-aggrandizement. He was there and he got one of his flunkies to write it up. The connection is too pat to be a co-incidence. “Look Mum, I was with the PM when the Prez rang!”.Shanahan confirmed Mitchell’s presence at the drinks at Kirribilli in his article today. Mitchell has never done this himself. His flunkie didn’t do it either.
So now we have Shanahan writing-up the report of the phone call as a scandal, when it wasn’t. Reports of phone calls between leaders are often in newspapers. We have him putting Mitchell at the scene, when Mitchell has pointedly declined to confirm that. We have The Australian writing plonking “we got the story and you didn’t” articles pointing out that it was drinks, not dinner, and all on the same day another writer at The Australian guilty of making the same mistake as the rest of the hack at the other news orgs wer criticised for making, calling it a “dinner party”.
Shanahan berates Media Watch for not covering the story behind the story. Why would they bother? It’s a total schemozzle from start to finish. MW is only 10 minutes long. They’d need a mini-series to do the whole f–k up justice.
This is a succinct explanation of how Howard & co operated. Unfortunately, Turnbull seems to think that it is good strategy. Once more of this comes out in the open, I think that people will be more awake to this sort of thing. A pity that the media are going to continue to be misled and keep on pushing the dishonesty that continually sprouts from the Libs.
You bet your life he does. One doesn’t get known as “the lying rodent” for nothing.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/navy-chief-torpedo-over-children-overboard/2008/11/14/1226318927477.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
With due respect but I though it was already on the public record that Peter Reith knew from advice that the photos were not has he protrayed them to be. I do hope the rest of the program isn’t just rehashed stuff we in here have heard all before.
Australian headline:
Any greeting short of French kissing was never going to be good enough …
With Fran Kelly being in charge of what material is included and what is excluded, I think you can be assured that it will be mostly rehashing already known information that isn’t particularly damaging to Howard’s legacy or the ex members of his Cabinet still in Parliament.
Let me remind you all that Mr Mitchell is the former editor of the Courier-Mail who published the allegation that Manning Clark had recieved the Order of Lenin and was a Soviet spy. The Australian Press Council said: “The newspaper had too little evidence to assert that Prof Clark was awarded the Order of Lenin – rather there is much evidence to the contrary. That being so, the Press Council finds that the Courier-Mail was not justified in publishing its key assertion and the conclusions which so strongly flowed from it. The newspaper should have taken further steps to check the accuracy of its reports. While the Courier-Mail devoted much space to people challenging its assertions, the Press Council believes it should have retracted the allegations about which Prof Clark’s supporters complained.” Robert Manne, former editor of Quadrant, wrote: “”It was clear that a couple of people saw him wearing a Soviet medal but there are many Soviet medals and I never thought that it was an Order of Lenin. But the Courier-Mail went from the assumption that it was an Order of Lenin to the assumption that he was one of the spies of the century. This was one of the most absurd pieces of journalism that Australia has ever seen.”
Just saw the Headline on Skynews … something like Rudds get cold greeting … LOL
so the Italian PM who said of the US President Elect “he has everything needed in order to reach deals with him: he’s young, handsome and even tanned.” gets a warmer greeting from an outgoing unpopoluar President ….geez thats really headline news
So will Skynews give us a handshake by hug account of each of the G20 leaders greeting by that master of diplomatic greetings Bush (did he give Merkel another neck rub?)
BB 550 – Well said.
Shaun Carney wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/liberal-strategy–crash-and-burn-20081114-679z.html?page=-1
I’m sure it would be just as accurate / pertinent to point out the corollary: the Liberals have a born-to-rule complex. They genuinely believe that the Australian public made the wrong decision last year, that, after this brief hiatus, will return to their senses and restore the Liberals to their rightful place, and Labor to theirs.
Turnbull is often cited as a character of outsized ego. It seems that this problem is not confined to him but afflicts the whole party. Arrogance in believing that only they are fit to govern. Arrogance in the belief that the public got it wrong, while the Liberals were, have been, are, and will be right all along, if stupidly misunderstood on the odd, rare occasion.
Now, if I may re-word the old saying:
In fairness to Berlusconi, I think his comments were meant to be self-abrogating. He was saying Obama was like him when he said “he has everything needed in order to reach deals with him: he’s young, handsome and even tanned.” Tacky, impolitic and stupid yes, but not a hanging offense.
Look, it is a big deal – in the media and I guess MT and co will be pleased that they got to take a bit of shine off Kev’s trip. (can hardly blame em for trying, imagine being in their position?)
But it’s just not a big deal anywhere else (except, perhaps the bat-freak fringe) so who cares?… why are people here still going on about it?
When they announce whatever the hell it is they announce at the end of the g20 sleepover, will any of it matter? I doubt it (I doubt it matters much now anyway)
What’s the bet there’s a big smiley-faced, bum-grabbing love ya kid photo of Rudd and Bush by the end of the sleepover…
And the next newspoll will be = 1pt increase to Labor (Gaff fails to dent blah blah)
Who really give a monkeys?
358 Adam now the Curious Snail has found someone Ken Henry had a drink in a pub with and is running a daily circus act pretending he is some sort of advisor to Ken Henry.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24653873-952,00.html
just scanning the papers, the OZ has ignored the whole thing and all the others have published the same story word for word– doesnt any of them do their own writing or investigating to see if it’s true, i saw a video of it and it didnt seem any different to the other greetings, Rudd and Bush went into the meeting together.
if there was any frostiness {which i couldnt percieve} we can thank Turnbull for blowing it up sky high and the journo’s who played being his cats paws, i can tell you Joe voter wont give a damm.
lol – if you want a bit of a giggle = http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrra-WkpqeE
Good point, Judith.
Turnbull talks up the incident and Bush is forced to give Rudd the cold shoulder.
But what comes next? An election? Rudd resigns and hands over to Turnbull? The Labor caucus sacks Rudd? The conference ends up in a bar fight with Bush breaking a chair over Rudd’s head?
I hope Turnbull’s happy now, if this is what he hoped would happen. The more gullible at home reading this might well think they’ve got less hope now because of it. Beautiful. And all to no end.
Spam Box, pmsl, very very cleverly done, the whole family is in fits of laughter over it— thank you.
Just imagine how much material the MSM would have had if they wanted The Rodent in opposition?
- Never ever GST
- Children Overboard
- WMDs
- @rse licker
- Pre-emptive strike
- Obama a victory for terrorists
- For eff sakes Coconut committed war crimes
Every journo who has given phonegate space and oxygen needs to stick their head down the toilet and press full flush to clean themselves up a bit.
Looks like we are at the beginning of an all in brawl within The Canberra Press Gallery. They are so deprived of “off the record” and “background briefings” that they need to do thier jobs, they have to resort to eating each other alive.
“Journalists” who made their reputations by being on the teat of the Howard Regime are fighting for relevance as the new kids on the block start to get the cream.
Its just too delicious for words.
Ru
I think in times to come this will be known as the “grand outing”
The usual suspects have only enhanced there irrelevance.
the standard of reportage hopefully will improve
I thought it was a bit ironic that The Australian was calling Crikey a “gossip website” in the same article it was defend its decision to write a story about a party at Rudd’s house.
That’ll be the day
I think certain people are still hurting from the blog wars parts 1 and 2
Maybe they were trying to start a third one but no-one obliged
No 346
Why would I read the Melbourne Socialist Daily?
No 369
Centre, I’d like to see the argument that Howard committed war crimes, stand up in a court of law.
The truth is, it won’t stand up in a court of law.
No 372
The party at Rudd’s house clearly resulted in a damaging leak with the potential to cause diplomatic rifts. So yes, it’s more than mere gossip.
not if ‘it’ is indicted!
Then howard can sit,stand or lie.
GP
If we (well some of us) read the OO, the least you could do is read the Melbourne Pravda so you know what your Government says it’s up to and why it’s so good.
It was a rumour that was disproved. It very closely fits the definition of gossip. More so than Crikey
No 379
Since no-one has the intestinal fortitude to indict him, the claims about being a war criminal are heinous nonsense.
No 381
It has not been disproved. Rudd still refuses to acknowledge of the leak. As Annabel Crabb said:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/11/14/morgan-585-415-5/comment-page-8/#comment-216621
Sorry link to the Crabb report: http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/annabel-crabb/much-in-common-theres-no-denying-it/2008/11/14/1226318924738.html
On that basis are the claims that Saddam Hussein was a war criminal “heinous nonsense” as well?
what’s a DBO?
Howard has a better chance of being indicted for war crimes than George Bush, although it is almost zero. Australia is fully signed up to the ICC, but the US reserves the right to pull out unilaterally (What a surprise!).
Howard accused of war crimes over Iraq troop deployment
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/02/2262414.htm
Saddam was tried and convicted by an Iraqi court.
But NOT by the ICC! I thought every agreed that the trial was a rort.
Pol Pot never faced court did he?
“This really was world-class DBO, champagne DBO – the kind of DBO that makes even hardened reporters sit back, rub their eyes, and think, “Hang on. Am I going mad? Am I missing something here?”
GP – this relates to Crabb’s view of Howard denying the bleeding obvious over troop commitments to Iraq. Why did you quote it out of context?
Plus, we were calling Saddam a war criminal for years before he was convicted. It was one of the pretexts for invasion.
Who gives a stuff about Howard. He’s yesterday’s news and he and his former ministers have trashed the Liberal party. He’s suffered enough. Leave him alone.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/18/1090089035899.html
“PM may be targeted by criminal indictment: lawyer”
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1394137.htm
according to reports Rudd is the only G20 leader given the priviledge of holding his press conference in the same venue as the meeting tomorrow.
Tell that to the ABC.
Pol Pot was convicted by a Khmer Rouge “court” after he was deposed as leader.
Saddam’s trial was a bit of circus, but that was mainly his own doing. No-one doubted that he was guilty of the things he was charged with, which were not war crimes but crimes against his own people.
Of course Saddam was a war criminal. He started the war with Iran, which killed 900,000 people. He invaded Kuwait. He gassed the Kurds at Halabja.
I’m not denying that, I was pointing out that by GP’s definition we wouldn’t be allowed to call him one.
So on that basis the Coalition would be war criminals. They started wars with Iraq and Afghanistan leaving hundreds of thousands dead and millions displaced. They invaded both those countries. And they used illegal weapons.
No..no, he hasn’t. He has 10 years to go, at least. And even then he won’t have redeemed himself.
Yes, he’s been snubbed all right
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