Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth

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I guess we’re not getting a Morgan poll tomorrow, so a stand-alone post is required to note recent developments. To wit:

Antony Green has crunched the numbers from the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ latest state and territory population figures and concluded that yet another new seat will need to be created in Queensland next year, again at the expense of New South Wales. Queensland will thus have boomed from 26 seats to 30 in little over a decade, having earlier gained Blair in 1998, Bonner in 2004 and Flynn in 2007. New South Wales lost Gwydir in 2007.

• The Australian Electoral Commission has announced that the finalised new federal boundaries for Western Australia will be gazetted on December 18, and maps published henceforth.

• Possum reckons “it’s time to rethink political demographics”, and explains why across a two-part epic here and here.

• A constitutional crisis is brewing in Canada that has some excited observers invoking the example of Australia in 1975. The election on October 14 saw Stephen Harper’s Conservative minority government re-elected, but again requiring the support of Bloc Québécois. However, Bloc Québécois has now signed an accord with the Liberal Party and leftist New Democrats due to dissatisfaction with the government’s handling of the financial crisis. Harper reportedly plans to ask that Governor-General Michaëlle Jean prorogue the parliament so it will not sit until the budget is presented in January. This would avert a sitting on December 8 at which Harper’s government would likely be defeated on a no-confidence motion, and allow him time to pick apart the Liberal-Bloc-NDP deal. This raises the question of whether Jean ought to grant a prorogation to a Prime Minister who might not have the confidence of the House.

UPDATE (5/12/08): Jean agrees to prorogue parliament until January 26. Ben Raue at The Tally Room expresses his displeasure, and proposes reforms to the appointment of prime ministers (citing the practice in the Australian Capital Territory), the scheduling of parliament and the timing elections. I am a little more sympathetic to Jean’s decision, on account of the Liberals’ evident state of disarray – although I can buy the idea that it’s not the Governor-General’s role to make such judgements.

1,278 Comments

  1. 1
    juliem
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Has the Canadian GG given any indication of a time frame for her to decide this matter? One would think sooner rather than later if the looming no confidence vote is to otherwise happen on the 8th …..

  2. 2
    ltep
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Is there any precedent for a Governor or Governor-General refusing to follow the advice of the Prime Minister in the absence of a no-confidence vote?

  3. 3
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    If we want Fielding to be marginalised, what about that nutter Bidgood? Not only does he sell his photos of the petrol covered protester, he turn out to certifiably insane. If we’re in “end times” why bother running for parliament? Evidently the GFC is an act of God.

    We have to say 'What would Jesus do?'," he says.

    "In 1987 there was another march for Jesus. That took place in April. And guess what happened in October 1987? The stock market crashed. All property values lost one third of their value and over a million people lost their homes.

    "I believe when Christians pray, God does things. I believe what is happening today is as much to do with God in economics bringing judgement."

    He goes on to warn that "there is God's justice in action in what has gone on here".

    "I believe there is God's justice in action in what is going on here. We haven't seen the end of it. The ultimate conclusion is like I say, we look at Bible prophecy, we are going towards a one world bank and a one world monetary system. And if you believe the word of God and you read Revelations...you will see clearly what is being spelt out. We are in the end times."

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24750170-601,00.html

  4. 4
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    ShowsOn at 664, my understanding is that the courts can and do refer to Hansard as an aid in interpreting the intent and meaning of legislation if there are doubts in that regard. The relevant minister’s comments and explanation at the time the Bill is presented in Parliament may well be relevant and of assistance to the Court.

    Well that is stupid, what happens if the minister said something that was blatantly wrong? It should be the legislation that counts, that’s what the parliament actually votes on, not what the minister says. Plus, Carr isn’t even the Minister for Education anyway, he only represents Gillard in the Senate.

    You left ouf the funniest part:

    Liberal frontbencher Chris Pyne said the behaviour was "low rent" and Tony Abbott said it was "tacky".

    Yes Tony Abbot, the guy who threatened to punch Cheryl Kernot behind the speaker’s chair in the House of Representatives, and who was the first cabinet minister for 40 odd years to be temporarily suspended from the chamber has decided to chip in his 2 cents worth about the behavior of another member.

  5. 5
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    We have to say ‘What would Jesus do?’,” he says.

    If this clowns actions are any guide, He’ll be taking happy snaps at the “end of times”

    I agree with Hockey – who said the age of miracles was over ;) – the sooner the ALP cuts Bidgood loose the better.

  6. 6
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Bibgood belongs in the Liberal Party!

    He’d be right at home there with tacky and low rent.

    ShowOn, don’t shoot the messenger. It’s what happens.

  7. 7
    Tom the first and best
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Anyone know of any moves to enlarge parliament?

    What about a referendum on basing the distribution of seats between states on enrolment not population?

    Does anyone know which member(s) of the HoR support PR for the HoR?

  8. 8
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    You can’t enlarge the House without enlarging the Senate at the same time.

    And doing this will probably be opposed by the major parties as it would allow greater opportunities for minor parties to get elected…

  9. 9
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    OK, Bidgood is a loony tune. But so is Fielding! And what about Abbott? Heavens above, when supposedly intelligent people start talking about the bible — it’s a worry!

  10. 10
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Centre, do you not see anything ironic in your injunction to “Heaven”?

  11. 11
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Hell — No! :)

  12. 12
    Tom the first and best
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    I said enlarge Parliament not enlarge the HoR.

    he HoR can and has been expanded (and contracted) without expanding (or contracting) the Senate if that expansion (or contraction) is due to interstate fluctuations of population changing the number of states that have are above/below half a quota above the the number of whole quotas that they are entitled to or if it is to do with the territory seats.

  13. 13
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    ShowOn, don’t shoot the messenger. It’s what happens.

    Well I read an article last year sometime that most judges are even dubious about the merit of explanatory memoranda when interpreting legislation. If many judges consider those irrelevant, I can’t see how a few remarks in the Senate could be of greater import.

  14. 14
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Fielding and Abbott are moderates compared to Bidgood. The judgement he exercised in photoing a man who could soon self-immolate and then sell the pictures to Murdoch is diabolical. And his fundamentalist millenarian views make him completely inappropriate for Parliament. When was the last time we had a politician saying “The End is Nigh”.

  15. 15
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    One wonders how Bidgood got preselection in the first place.

    That said, it’s quite probably that he was a cannon fodder candidate who got caught up in the Labor wave in Queensland last year.

    What are the odds of the Labor Party in Dawson ousting him in the preselection before the next election?

  16. 16
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    The judgement he exercised in photoing a man who could soon self-immolate and then sell the pictures to Murdoch is diabolical.

    What was the diabolical part? The photographing, or the selling of the photograph?

    What if he gave the photograph to the federal police, would’ve that been OK, or just as bad?

    And his fundamentalist millenarian views make him completely inappropriate for Parliament.

    Unfortunately about 1/3 of the members of our federal and state parliaments hold the same or similar views.

  17. 17
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    I’d say the Nationals are looking forward to winning Dawson back just as the Liberals are looking forward to taking back Robertson.

  18. 18
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    I apologise if this was posted in the previous thread.

    A Senate Committee has dismissed its own inquiry into bias at universities and schools as a waste of time.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/04/2437923.htm

  19. 19
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    That’s because we all know it occurs Oz…

  20. 20
    ltep
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Oz, it was also referred to as farcical.

  21. 21
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    sell the pictures to Murdoch

    He didn’t really sell them, just gave them to Murdoch on the proviso they donate to charity

  22. 22
    Roxanna
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    When I grow up - I wanna be Antony Green

    Spam Box – so do we all. :-D

    Except the Opposition, who are mostly the dark side of Peter Pan.

  23. 23
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    I’d say the Nationals are looking forward to winning Dawson back just as the Liberals are looking forward to taking back Robertson.

    Even you have to admit the parliament is better with Dee-Ann Kelly gone.

  24. 24
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Not only farcical, but everything to the right of ludicrous in a thesaurus.

  25. 25
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    That’s because we all know it occurs Oz…

    The biggest problem in unis is bias against BOTH the Left and Right by post-modernists in the Humanities who see both sides as the same.

    It isn’t Left-wing bias that is the problem, it is No-wing bias that is the issue.

  26. 26
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Well yes i agree but maybe they can recruit that Hajnal Ban to run for the Nats in Dawson…i would say she would be a marked improvement on Kelly and Bidgood.

  27. 27
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    What was the diabolical part? The photographing, or the selling of the photograph?

    Both. Anyone who’s first instinct when they see someone about to self-immolate is to take photos is beneath contempt. And then to publicise the man’s misery is just despicable. I’ve treated quite a few self-immolators. It’s not nice at all.

    Unfortunately about 1/3 of the members of our federal and state parliaments hold the same or similar views.

    Name a single one who says the world is about to end and that the GFC is “God’s justice in action”.

  28. 28
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    There is NO issue of bias in any universities.

    Do lecturers and tutors have their own perspectives on the world? Obviously. Do those perspectives sometimes become more noticeable at certain points intime? Yes, they do.

    But that’s not a problem! University students aren’t idiots who swallow everything they hear without analysing it. That’s the point of university. To understand how to think critically and analyse. There a broad range of opinions in universities and the fact that they’re sometimes expressed and sometimes contrary to those of students is a good thing.

  29. 29
    The Finnigans
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Oh dear, that soon? The poor guy has not even taken the office as yet.

    Obama's Windfall Taxes Shift: First Broken Promise? - The Obama team's decision to drop the idea of forcing oil and natural gas companies to pay a tax on their windfall profits has caused a firestorm among liberals and small business coalitions.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/03/the-debate-over-obamas-fi_n_148225.html

    Btw; how come the Govt has not made a big song and dance over the good news on the trade surplus, weird.

    Record trade surplus may save economy - Australia has posted a record trade surplus of nearly $3 billion, giving rise to hopes that surging exports will keep the economy out of recession.

    http://business.smh.com.au/business/record-trade-surplus-may-save-economy-20081204-6r5a.html

  30. 30
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    http://news.smh.com.au/business/car-sales-crash-22-in-november-20081204-6rc2.html

    Holy crap, Toyota is outselling both Ford and Holden COMBINED.

    Never would have seen that coming in Australia.

  31. 31
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Look forward to the new boundaries for Kalgoorlie. Hope it’s still in reach.
    Talking of hopeless MHRs, Liberal Barry Haase takes the cake. Hasn’t had an original idea of national/any significance in ten years. That’s more than a million dollars of taxpayers/voters’ money wasted. Not to mention his notorious printing and mail expenses. I miss the strange political landscape called WA. Well, sometimes.

  32. 32
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    But that’s not a problem! University students aren’t idiots who swallow everything they hear without analysing it.

    The sad thing is that some of them – especially first year students – do take the lecturer’s word on everything, because that is generally what they were taught to do at high school! Part of tutoring first years is trying to unwind that reliance on arguments from authority. But some university faculties just make it worse. They had down things as if it is obvious dogma, then produce students that regurgitate the same opinions in essays without first thinking critically about issues.

    This is particularly an issue in some sections of the Humanities where adherence to certain theories is considered a pre-requisite for ideological and political purity.

    That’s the point of university. To understand how to think critically and analyse.

    I completely agree with you! But when students are having certain orthodoxies rammed down their throats without being exposed to alternate views, then they don’t learn how to critically analyse what they are being told.

    I am not suggesting this is a universal problem. Some faculties don’t have this issue because they are inherently taught dialectically. The lecturers and tutors will demonstrate two (or more) opposing theories by different people to explain the same phenomena. Then students will be asked to learn and explain the advantages and disadvantages of each theory. Then they will have to pick one and explain why they think that is the best one. THAT is critical thinking in practice.

    Unfortunately the Humanities doesn’t have the same history of teaching dialectically. Instead certain theories become considered orthodox, and almost unchallengeable. Adherence to various forms of psychoanalytically infused Marxism is the most common.

    Such theories are the only ones presented in lectures and tutorials, or even worse, are simply assumed to be self evident facts, rather than challengable conjectures! Within such an environment such ideas can only be challenged by students who do a heap of their own research! They shouldn’t have to do this. They should be presented with competing theories at every turn, then asked to reflect on what they think is better, and asked to explain why.

    I say this as someone who has been taught about globalisation in both politics classes and media studies classes. In the politics classes I had to reflect on how globalisation has both positives and negatives, benefits and defficiences that have reshaped Australia and other countries in BOTH positive and negative ways.

    When taught about globalisation in media studies I was essentially encouraged to hate America, because, apparently America uses globalisation to oppress the rest of the world! The fact over the last decade about 200 million fewer people in China are now living in extreme poverty – in part thanks to increased trade – was never mentioned. The fact Australians enjoy high living standards compared to most people in other countries, because – in part – Australia spent the 1980s economically, culturally, and politically integrating itself with other countries was not mentioned. The fact if Australia wanted to (somehow) deglobalise itself Australians would have to pay double or triple for consumer electronics that we generally love was not considered.

    How does any of that encourage critical thinking?

  33. 33
    Eratosthanes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Shows On @ 32

    Sounds like it incouraged some pretty critical thoughs from you!

  34. 34
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Unfortunately the Humanities doesn’t have the same history of teaching dialectically. Instead certain theories become considered orthodox, and almost unchallengeable. Adherence to various forms of psychoanalytically infused Marxism is the most common.

    I have to disagree with you there. Perhaps that was your experience but it certainly wasn’t mine. I’m not suggesting that it doesn’t necessarily occur, just that it doesn’t in all the Humanities like you’re suggesting.

    An example – In one particular course about International Relations and various political/sociological theories we were taught about a number of them. Emphasis was put on a few as they were the dominant theories in the particular field but a lot of others were canvassed. No lecturers or tutors attempted to ram particular theories down our throats and when the tutor did finally reveal what theory they subscribed too, at the end of the semester, none of us could have guessed it.

    However, when the tutor did say something that some in the class disagreed with they were quick to point it out. This was in first year, so also on that point I wouldn’t lump together dumb first years.

    Now you can say there are some who will swallow everything and some faculties are engaged in ideological battles (though they wouldn’t call them that), particularly noticeable regarding post-modernism. But expecting those things not to exist, or to not be an issue, is to expect that teachers are robots with no life experiences of their own that have shaped how they view the world.

  35. 35
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    The Finnigans @ 29 -

    I didn’t expect much from Obama, but so far he he’s failed to meet even those low expectations, especially on foreign policy and defence. Seems to me that the “Change We Need” is mainly a wholesale return to the Clinton era, mostly the worst bits, with a smidgen of Bushism.

    Employing Madeline Albright who believes the pitiful deaths of perhaps 500,000 Iraqi infants was a “price worth paying” as his ’social’ secretary and Hillary ‘Bomb, bomb, Iran’ Clinton as Sec. of State aren’t the only disappointing appointments, just the worst.

    That said, he’s probably still marginally ahead of what I’d anticipated from Clinton.

  36. 36
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    I have to disagree with you there. Perhaps that was your experience but it certainly wasn’t mine. I’m not suggesting that it doesn’t necessarily occur, just that it doesn’t in all the Humanities like you’re suggesting.

    Of course, I noted it wasn’t universal. But adherence to ideological dogmas instead of argumentation tends to proliferate in faculties that don’t have a history of dialectical inquiry. That is my experience as both a student and a tutor.

    But expecting those things not to exist, or to not be an issue, is to expect that teachers are robots with no life experiences of their own that have shaped how they view the world.

    Sure, so we agree. Those faculties or departments who are stuck in ideological battles are biased, because they – by definition – allow ideology to get in the way of teaching in a way that promotes critical thought.

    I don’t want robots. I just want teachers that can back up their claims with evidence and coherent arguments, instead of saying things because they supposedly make them ideological pure.

    Ultimately I hope that Gillard extends her school grading system to universities, so those with faculties full of actual teachers – instead of ideologues – end up with more government funding. The faculties full of ideologues should just be left to wither on the vine for all I care, they don’t actually teach students anything anyway.

  37. 37
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    I think there are more pressing problems with university staff then what I see as a minority of “ideologues” that should be sorted out first, but after that, I agree with you.

  38. 38
    Michael Cusack
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    I attended Question Time with an international visitor today. It was not an occasion to be proud of, generally speaking. Visitor was impressed with the condolence motion for Crean, and the respect shown him behind the scenes, especially from Hockey, Ruddock who also spoke, Truss and another I didnt recognise. She was appalled at the behaviour during QT proper, especially when Swan and Gillard attempted to answer a question. It was obviously the opposition tactic to interrupt their answers with serial points of order and to shout loudly in an attempt to intimidate. This didn’t work, esspecially to Gilliard. The loudness of the din was astonishing, Pyne and Dutton and someone I didn’t recognise were literally bellowing like football barrackers. Wilson Tuckey looked and occasionally sounded as though he had become his own best customer, a failing of many publicans. He especially fired up when binge drinking was criticised.

    Gilliard is head and shoulders above the rest in the house. Akin to having Steve Waugh in a high school team!

    The security at the House is stultifying, and visitors are treated like trespassers with malice.

  39. 39
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Heavens above, when supposedly intelligent people start talking about the bible — it’s a worry!

    There’s a difference between talking about the Bible and sprouting “end of days” stuff…

  40. 40
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Talking about Dawson:

    The son of a former Howard government minister will front court on a charge of trafficking a dangerous drug.

    Ian Kelly, 21, was allegedly trafficking ecstasy in Mackay over an 11-month period between March 2007 and February 2008.

    His mother, former frontbencher De-Anne Kelly, was the Nationals member for Dawson for eight of those 11 months.

    http://news.theage.com.au/national/former-mps-son-to-face-drug-charge-20081204-6r8a.html

  41. 41
    Socrates
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    I would also like to see Bidgood go, just as much as Fielding. Its not just the weird religeous views – selling the photos was indeed callous. Curious how so many of these “fundamentalist” religeous types don’t allow their beliefs to stand in the way of making a buck by means which ost reasonable people woudl find objectionable. I wonder if he’ll declare that income? Blessed are the hypocrites.

  42. 42
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    In other news, the Government’s scrapping of their idea to create a “Department of Homeland Security” is a very good idea.

  43. 43
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    selling the photos was indeed callous

    He didn’t sell them

  44. 44
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    What electorate does Bidgood represent, bludgers?

  45. 45
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Well, he did sell them but gave the money to charity. I can’t get outraged about this myself. Storm in a teacup.

  46. 46
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    I think there are more pressing problems with university staff then what I see as a minority of “ideologues” that should be sorted out first, but after that, I agree with you.

    I see it as an extremely pressing problem, because universities aren’t any better than the quality of the people teaching the students.

    It doesn’t matter how much extra funds you give a faculty, if it is run by people who can’t, or are unwilling to promote critical inquiry, then the quality of the graduates won’t improve.

  47. 47
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    What electorate does Bidgood represent, bludgers?

    Dawson – Dee-Ann Kelly’s old seat. He defeated her with a 13% swing.

  48. 48
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Michael Cusack, do you think security may have been more than usually stroppy, due to the bloke jumping to the floor of the House earlier in the week and the incident involving the person dousing himself in petrol?
    Must say, the behaviour of some of Her Maj.’s Loyal Opposition sounds less than parliamentary, but am pleased to have confirmed that JG just keeps shafting them no matter what they throw at her.
    And gotta say, I did say the gov’t. wouldn’t cave on the Private Schools Funding Bill and very chuffed I was right. It’s getting so that you can read where they’ll shift ground, and where they’ll dig their heels in, IMHO.

  49. 49
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Ta, ShowsOn. Hmm, know that electorate somewhat and can understand why he was preselected and elected. I think it is a problem referred to by Barak Obama, in relation to a group of people, who, when anxious, and they generally are, will cling to religion (any sort will do, but the one promising most certainty they come across first, they’ll grab onto with a deathly grip) and guns.

  50. 50
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Apparently Hefferman is a “family friend”.

    Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan has provided a character reference for a fake Qantas engineer who has been described in court as a pathological liar.

    Timothy McCormack, 27, admitted forging qualifications to pose as a Qantas engineer in 2006.

    But the court has also heard that Senator Heffernan, a family friend, has thrown his support behind Mr McCormack, writing him a character reference that has been tendered in court.

    Funny how the Libs seem to have different standards for their members to what they expect of Labor.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/04/2437985.htm

  51. 51
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    In other news, the Government’s scrapping of their idea to create a “Department of Homeland Security” is a very good idea.

    Yep a dopey old idea left over from Beazley, that was handy for opposition, but not worth tuppence in govt.

  52. 52
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Yep a dopey old idea left over from Beazley, that was handy for opposition, but not worth tuppence in govt.

    What about a Coast Guard, instead of using the navy.

    Does that have merit?

  53. 53
    Michael Cusack
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    HSO. @ 48. Yes , definitely that played a part of it, especially within the gallery of the house. I actually overheard one security person tell another that there was a “suspect” in the opposite gallery connected to the events of the other day, and to keep a close eye on him. I cant comment on the security elsewhere, except to say that it was not user friendly to visitors, and tending towards abrasive.
    Re the Opposition, I was amazed at the din they raised, much more overpowering than comes over the TV coverage, and often drowning out the speakers. No one was warned today which raises the question of how bad it has to get when oeiole are ejected. Pyne, and to a lesser extent Tuckey were just bellowing out incomprehensible noise on a continuous basis. Others on the opposition side joined in as required by tactics.

  54. 54
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Well, he did sell them but gave the money to charity

    The word ’sell’ shouldn’t even be used. He handed them over provided News would make a donation to a charity… he never touched any money.

    I agree on the storm in a teacup. Since when has MP’s taking photographs of something been a no-no? Bidgood may well be a nutjob but it seems there is a desperation to make this a lot more of an issue than it really is.

  55. 55
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    It’s getting so that you can read where they’ll shift ground, and where they’ll dig their heels in, IMHO.

    They’re picking their fights quite well at the moment. But they’re going to fighting the Senate all the way till the next election.

    And as someone who despised the way JWH treated the senate, I say good on it.
    And as someone who agrees with PJK, I say unrepresentative swill get out of the bloody way!

  56. 56
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    If anyone cares what I think, I find it in rather poor taste of Scorpio at #40 to promote the fact that De-Anne Kelly’s son is on a drugs charge. What the hell has that got to do with anything?

  57. 57
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    If anyone cares what I think, I find it in rather poor taste of Scorpio at #40 to wave around the fact that De-Anne Kelly’s son is on a drugs charge. What the hell has that got to do with anything?

    Well if taking a photo of somebody rates a mention…

  58. 58
    Michael Cusack
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    OEIOLE = people foe english speakers!

  59. 59
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Another non-story, IMHO, but at least it directly involves a sitting member of parliament.

  60. 60
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    What the hell has that got to do with anything?

    I don’t understand why the connection was made in the original article.

    After all, he is an adult, and there is no suggestion the alleged crime was aided by his mum.

  61. 61
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Quite so, ShowsOn.

  62. 62
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    What about a Coast Guard, instead of using the navy.

    Does that have merit?

    Less sure – not really my area – my Homeland security opinion is based on views of how effective such a dept has been in the USA.

    I guess it boils down to could the navy be better served doing other things besides picking up the odd people smuggler and illegal fishing boat (in between hot romance between Nav and ET :-) ), or would getting a coast guard be more $$$ and less efficient.

    I think there’s merit in saying this group only do coast guard duties, and this mob can go round in submarines etc.

    But as I say, I’m only putting forth a completely ignorant opinion

  63. 63
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Another non-story, IMHO, but at least it directly involves a sitting member of parliament.

    Kelly was a sitting member during the period the offences allegedly occured

  64. 64
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Kelly was a sitting member during the period the offences allegedly occured

    Well she ain’t in now. Let it go. I don’t care about Nick Whitlam when I talk about Gough

  65. 65
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Well she ain’t in now. Let it go. I don’t care about Nick Whitlam when I talk about Gough

    I’m not fussed, but the question was asked

  66. 66
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Someone who had worked with Bidgod extensively rang ABS Sydney radio this morning and informed us that Bidgood not only worked for the Illawarra Mercury as a press photographer. but had run a successful photography business independently of any media association. So he has photogrphy in his blood.

    I dare say if the guy had immolated himself Bidgood would not have handed over the photos at any price.

    It was a stunt on behalf of the guy with the petrol that turned out happily in the end. It got publicity for the poor demented Russian bloke and provided $1,000 to charity.

    I really cannot see the problem.

  67. 67
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    It’s just another reaosn why I would hate to be an MP (and why I have no probs with them getting a pay rise) their life and that of their families is considered everyone’s business.

    Palin and her kids
    Bracks and his son
    Hawke and his daughter

    unless it’s like Reith and his son’s phone bill, I don’t want to know

  68. 68
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    I really cannot see the problem

    Given the relative lack of ’scandals’ by this first term Government, it seems the bar has been lowered as a result

  69. 69
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    INDIA has declared a security alert at three major airports and added extra checks to vehicles and luggage after warnings from intelligence agencies of an airborne terror attack.
    The alert was sounded after Defence Minister A.K. Antony ordered the armed forces to be on guard against "any terror strikes from the air", officials said.

    Geez.
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24751329-23109,00.html

  70. 70
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    With the end of parliament (or are they coming back for another day?) sdilly season has officially begun:

    In the first seven months of the Rudd government, the prime minister's overseas jaunts cost taxpayers just over $600,000, according to a register of parliamentary travel released on Thursday.
    ...
    Special mention should go to Labor rising star, Bill Shorten.

    The Victorian MP was one of only a handful of politicians to have paid heed to a long-term directive to use frequent flyer points to redeem airfares where possible.

    Mr Shorten saved taxpayers the most money, taking frequent flyer flights worth more than $9,000.
    ...
    Former prime minister John Howard, who lost government and his seat last year, spent $2,856 on domestic airfares.

    Mr Howard, who is reportedly getting a refresher course in driving after being ferried about for 11 and a half years as prime minister, also ran up a bill worth $48,207 for the use of a commonwealth car.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=682061

    Haven’t heard Shorten referred to as a “rising star” for a while…

  71. 71
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Err, B.B, whether or not photography is in his blood , when confronted by someone who may kill themselves imminently, the appropriate response is not a photograph. That the photographer is a parliamentarian, or vice versa (reminds me of the “Who called the chef a ****” joke), who thinks that the GFC is his invisible friend’s idea of retribution and reckoning, and there’s a plot afoot in relation to global banks and stuff, that’s further proof of “the end of days”, is frankly just weird.

  72. 72
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Because he’s not.

  73. 73
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    when confronted by someone who may kill themselves imminently

    Was the person not being restrained by people? If 50 people are standing near someone who passes out and falls over, do they all have to drop everything and help the person up? Come on…

  74. 74
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    William @ 56′

    No offense meant but just pointing out that some were commenting on Bidgood’s error of judgment and yet there are circumstances where it is unwise to throw stones because no one is immune from damage to their reputation from either their own actions or those of people close to them.

    The exact words I said;

    Talking about Dawson:

    If that is enough to receive censure from you, then I think I have sadly misjudged you.

    If you feel that my contributions to this blog are inappropriate, then maybe I should refrain from any posting and just occasionally visit to see what others feel about the subjects that you put up for comment.

  75. 75
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Grog @ 79. The shrink who works with me, gets pay TV from India, which reported some remarkable things about the planning and preparation for the Mumbai attack. If such reporting is to be believed, both were very professionally done and very sophisticated, suggesting lead times of at least 18 months to instigate such an attack. Seven of the attackers were U.K. born, disaffected Pakistani youth.

  76. 76
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    There is currently “17″ news items on De-Anne Kelly’s son on Google News!

    I don’t think it is now, somehow an issue, that will not be a talking point in some circles or other.

  77. 77
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Scorpio, I did say “if anyone cares what I think” – you’re entitled to not care in this case, as distinct from when I exercise my authority as moderator.

  78. 78
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Dario, I don’t know if the person was being restrained. I’ve not heard or seen anything to inform me on that score. The point I’m making is that if someone is genuinely, in extremis, that taking a photograph is hardly likely to be helpful, and is, in my view, paparazzi like. Common sense could prevail, if he had any. Someone fainting with 50 folk about is hardly a comparison.

  79. 79
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    suggesting lead times of at least 18 months to instigate such an attack

    I’m guessing it won’t stop the right wing media from carrying on with the line that it was done to deliberately ‘test’ Obama

  80. 80
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    HSO, here’s some of the photos in question. There is a copper trying to deal with the situation in the first picture. If Bidgood had run in instead what do you think the headlines would have been?

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-blasts-labor-mp-in-cashforphoto-row-20081203-6qnv.html

  81. 81
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    taking a photograph is hardly likely to be helpful, and is, in my view, paparazzi like

    Taking a photograph of someone dousing themselves in petrol is paparazzi like??? Wtf? The paparazzi PURSUE their subjects specifically for a photo. Please don’t even try to compare that to this.

  82. 82
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    That’s just the point. I do care. It has “never” been my intention to belittle other posters or test your tolerance on the line of comments I contribute.

    I have not been very well for the past couple of years similar to a number of other posters here and have gained a lot of enjoyment from contributing to discussion and putting forward issues that other have missed.

    Again, I do care how you take my contribution and if I have caused offence, for that I opologise as none was ever intended.

  83. 83
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Thank you, Scorpio. I’m glad you enjoy the site.

  84. 84
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, the photos in that link above were from the Canberra Times. Here is the news.com photo Bidgood took, well after the guy had been subdued

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,,24745230-2,00.html

  85. 85
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Naked short selling ban bill has passsed

    http://news.smh.com.au/national/short-selling-bill-passes-parliament-20081204-6rhn.html

  86. 86
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    apologise!

  87. 87
    It's Time
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    I think the Bidgood drama was an overreaction by Rudd, probably based on minimal information. Any photos I have seen appear to have been taken when police were dealing with the issue or subsequently. More disturbing were his comments about the financial crisis being the wrath of god. The logical(?) from this line of thinking is that politicians shouldn’t do anything because everything is the will of god. Why bohter seeking election then?

  88. 88
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Scorpio, all I’ve done is state my opinion, and it hasn’t changed. I probably shouldn’t have the words “the hell” in my original comment. For that at least I apologise.

  89. 89
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    WB My thinking was that scorpio was just correcting his own spelling

    opologise

  90. 90
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    I think comments by Bidgood and the MP who complained about the food at Parliament House and the Member for Robertson have simply shown us that when a Government wins a big victory they are bound to bring in some people who will do the wrong thing…I am sure after the 1996 landslide there were Coalition MPs who made just as many errors as these MPs and in all fairness their actions will have consequences…most likely that will happen in 2010.

  91. 91
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    #89: Ah, I see. Sorry about that as well (if correct).

  92. 92
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Grog @ 89,

    Spot on!

  93. 93
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    90 Glen, Kay Hull also complained about the food
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/annabel-crabb/stroganoff-affair-mp-says-sorry/2008/09/18/1221330977822.html

  94. 94
    It's Time
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Yes Glen, wasn’t it 3 of his own ministers whom Howard sacked in his first year. One would have thought that such people would have known better than first timers.

  95. 95
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Gratefully accepted!

  96. 96
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Well it’s time at least Howard did sack Ministers who were doing the wrong thing or underperforming…if only Rudd have the gumption to sack Swan…

  97. 97
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    which underperforming minister did Howard sack????

  98. 98
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Immediately after Mr Murphy had spoken, the National Party MP for Riverina - Kay Hull - added her own complaint, describing the "quality, presentation and availability of food" as inadequate.

    Mr Hockey approached Ms Hull in the chamber to reprimand her, but witnesses said Ms Hull told him to "f--- off".

    Yesterday, Mr Murphy received a reprimand at the direction of Mr Albanese

    I bet Hockey didn’t have the intestinal fortitude to attempt to reprimand Ms Hull.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/annabel-crabb/stroganoff-affair-mp-says-sorry/2008/09/18/1221330977822.html

  99. 99
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Somlyay

  100. 100
    David Walsh
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    In September 2006, some idiot wrote the following and signed my name:

    Victoria’s last three quotas have been 36.76 (1999), 36.65 (2003) and now 36.54 (2005). That 37th seat is a goner.

    Whoops. Obviously the state has turned things around. Antony Green puts Victoria 2009 determination at 36.66.

    That leaves open the problem that Victoria may have a redistribution triggered under the seven year rule in early 2010 that would be unlikely to be completed in time for an election later that year.

  101. 101
    It's Time
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Well it’s time at least Howard did sack Ministers who were doing the wrong thing or underperforming…if only Rudd have the gumption to sack Swan…

    But Swan hasn’t done anything wrong. And underperformance is relative. Performing better than Turnbull and then Bishop might be seen as underperformance but you only have to be a little better than your opponents. Perhaps if the opposition had someone more challenging then Swan would lift his performance.

    NOTE: It’s Time, to do blockquotes, just put [ and ] on either side of the quote – The Management.

  102. 102
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get this obsession with Swan.

    He’s far from my favourite politician and not as good in Parliament as Tanner or Gillard but he’s doing a fine job policy wise and selling the message. The polls say the public thinks he’s fine as well.

  103. 103
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Somlyay

    Isn’t he back on the front bench!?

  104. 104
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Alex has been since 1998.

    Oz Swan couldnt sell you an umbrella on a rainy day!

    He is the government’s weakest link because he never sounds sure of himself…struggles in QT and has made some woeful policy errors.

  105. 105
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    I have heard Bidgood ask a question in QT, the guy sounds like a good bloke. So he may have made a slight mistake, but I agree with BB, there is no way that is a hanging offence.

    Yes Grog, anything that’s said in relation to the bible – is loony land stuff!

    And Glen “if only Rudd had the gumption to sack Swan”. Swan is the best treasurer since Keating, he is a real economist. Not like his predecessor. If anybody dosen’t believe it they know nothing about economics, or have never seen QT. Like the old saying “if you throw enough mud, it sticks”!

  106. 106
    It's Time
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    Woeful policy errors? Only in the fevered imagination of Turnbull and the conservative drones. Where are the disinterested parties like academic economists criticizing the government’s economic policies?

  107. 107
    onimod
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    And yet the latest polling suggest that Australians prefer Swan the previous mob?
    Odd eh?

  108. 108
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    struggles in QT

    I don’t really see that? Like I said, he’s not a brilliant performer but he doesn’t “Struggle”. He defends his position well and counter attacks.

    QT and has made some woeful policy errors.

    I think considering the fact that virtually all of his policies have been on the advice of, or have the support of, the RBA and Treasury they can’t really be considered “woeful”.

  109. 109
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Centre…Bidgood sounds like a Pom.

  110. 110
    Glen
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Oz Swanny and Rudd never talked to the RBA Gov about their stupid bank deposit safeguards and they ended up making a meal of it!

  111. 111
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    Those who think Swan is no good in QT should get their eyes and ears checked. Seriously.

  112. 112
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Swanny and Rudd never talked to the RBA Gov about their stupid bank deposit safeguards and they ended up making a meal of it!

    The Treasurer’s department did and the RBA is on the record saying they support it.

    I take offence to you calling our trusted, national regulators “stupid.

    It’s un-Australian and shameful.

  113. 113
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    The Parliament House food issue would probably have received far less, as in no, media attention if the owner of the catering company, which had only very, very recently taken on the contract, wasn’t married to a senior political journo who went on and on about it in the days and weeks afterward.

    It may well be that the complainants were trying it on, but it may equally be true that there was the odd hiccup.

  114. 114
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood sounds like a Pom.

    That’s coz he was born in the UK.

    Anyway – people’s accents isn’t necessarily a predictor of what their character is. That said, Alexander Downer, with his Jar Jar Binks-accent, is an exception to this rule…

  115. 115
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Sign #235646 that your country is screwed – police enforced dress codes:
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24753220-23109,00.html

  116. 116
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    The Parliament House food issue would probably have received far less, as in no, media attention if the owner of the catering company, which had only very, very recently taken on the contract, wasn’t married to a senior political journo who went on and on about it in the days and weeks afterward.

    Who was that?!

  117. 117
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Centre…Bidgood sounds like a Pom.

    That’s because of this!

    [Bidgood was born in the United Kingdom and grew up in the East End of London.}

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bidgood_(Australian_politician)

  118. 118
    Swing Lowe
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    The Parliament House food issue would probably have received far less, as in no, media attention if the owner of the catering company, which had only very, very recently taken on the contract, wasn’t married to a senior political journo who went on and on about it in the days and weeks afterward.

    I’m guessing the terrible chefs at the Hyatt Canberra (the old caterers) have plenty of hooks in with the pollies – after all, most of them head there for post-QT drinks when Parliament sits…

  119. 119
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Shows On @ 115. What the hell is wrong with those people? Women can’t wear tight pants! Guys can’t wear a spiky hair style!

    Loooony Tunes! The lot of them. What is their problem?

  120. 120
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    Err, B.B, whether or not photography is in his blood , when confronted by someone who may kill themselves imminently, the appropriate response is not a photograph.

    Absolutely wrong, HSO. A press photographer is always a press photographer. If you’ve never been one, then it’s hard to understand. You shoot first, ask (yourself) questions later.

    In this case the ending was a “happy” one and the charity benefited from it.

    Can’t see the problem at all.

    OK, perhaps I’m being disingenuous. It’s sort-of, maybe, perhaps, unseemly for a polly to be snapping pikkies outside Parliament House, but only if you take a very restricted view of politicians. They have lives outside of their work. They have histories that are hard to relinquish. For mine, Bidgood doing what he loves to do and has a career of doing is perfectly natural. That he sought not to profit from it and instead turned his photographs into a benefit for a chosen charity is something that should be praised, even if it is admittedly a little odd. But no more than that: unusual, but hardly beyond the pale.

    As a side issue: I often think the biggest wowsers are from the Left. No reason for that being the case: it just is.

  121. 121
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Fortunately that nice Mr Rudd agrees with me about the photos. :D

    More disturbing were his comments about the financial crisis being the wrath of god. The logical(?) from this line of thinking is that politicians shouldn’t do anything because everything is the will of god. Why bother seeking election then?

    I totally agree that his millenarian views are much more of a problem. I’m surprised Dario and a few others are so comfortable having someone in Parliament who thinks the world is about to end and that God has punished us with the GFC. That level of detachment from reality is delusional and frankly dangerous.

  122. 122
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Yes Grog, anything that’s said in relation to the bible - is loony land stuff!

    Well you’ve just lost both Rudd and Turnbull.

  123. 123
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    We were right a few days ago , th Libs would back down on Education Bill…and now they hav ….all that money allocated in Bill to private schools must hav resulted in them inundating Libs to pass it

    Of course Libs & Private Schools realize where Julia’s trojan horse is heading , but do not knoiw how to stop it First that Nation curiculum , then publishing of results (now that will cause jitters , alegedly top private schools charging a fortune and marks may be no better than less expensive private schools

    Of course after that , expect funding will be tied to ‘disclosure’ of “donations” Will be interested to see how they tie up to School commission submissions over years

    If process of horsey gets to end game , there may be comparative tax payers monies assessed that directly provide rich schools with state of art facilities matched for benefit/outcomes to poor private & public schools whos facilities ar appaling i can see alot of squirming and red herrings thrown up in future to divert th trojan horsey down th last rack

  124. 124
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Press photographers are notoriously sleazy and unprincipled. So are politicians but at least they’re meant to pretend they’re not.

  125. 125
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Vera , our Education discussion forcasting Libs backdown

  126. 126
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    It may be that Israel is preparing a send off to GWB and an unappreciated welcome to the White House for Obama.

    ISRAEL is reportedly drawing up plans to attack Iranian nuclear facilities and is prepared to launch a strike without backing from the US.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24750795-401,00.html

  127. 127
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Press photographers are notoriously sleazy and unprincipled.

    Well, if you’ve got a hate up against the guy, who am I to buck the power of the Lefty wowsers?

    I hereby withdraw from the Bidgood case. Good luck to youse all trying to crucify him. for mine, I think it’d be easier to get a life.

  128. 128
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps this might get you on board, BB.

    "We have to say 'What would Jesus do?'," (Bidgood) says.

    "In 1987 there was another march for Jesus. That took place in April. And guess what happened in October 1987? The stock market crashed. All property values lost one third of their value and over a million people lost their homes.

    "I believe when Christians pray, God does things. I believe what is happening today is as much to do with God in economics bringing judgement."

    He goes on to warn that "there is God's justice in action in what has gone on here".

    "I believe there is God's justice in action in what is going on here. We haven't seen the end of it. The ultimate conclusion is like I say, we look at Bible prophecy, we are going towards a one world bank and a one world monetary system. And if you believe the word of God and you read Revelations...you will see clearly what is being spelt out. We are in the end times."

  129. 129
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    You just know there’s going to be trouble about this. A new Lego-style range complete with a Muslim suicide bomber and terrorist. Osama bin Lego. The photo’s pretty cute.

    A RANGE of Lego-style fighting figures — including an al-Qaeda terrorist — has been slammed by religious leaders.

    The masked follower of 9/11 mastermind Osama Bin Laden comes with a rocket launcher, assault rifle and grenades.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2002041.ece

  130. 130
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Dario back @ 81, sorry, just got headed off at the pass by life, I suppose. I conclude from what you have posted (for which, thanks) that the police were trying to talk him away from any precipitate action, and were successful in doing so. What I find disturbing, and described as paparazzi like, is people inserting themselves into the national media, via photographs taken by a parliamentarian, and that includes the bozzo from Dawson. And does the parliamentarian in question have any clear idea in his mind about what is the role of a member of parliament, local representative, contributor to the development of policy for the party he serves? Apart from what his invisible friend tells him?
    I will keep an open mind about the Hon. Member for Dawson, for now, but he hasn’t impressed on first outing.

  131. 131
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    William,

    Bidgood might be right after all. This to follow on from my post at 126.

    FORMER US president Jimmy Carter has said Israel holds at least 150 nuclear weapons, the first time a US president has publicly acknowledged the Jewish state's atomic arsenal.

    That’s quite a lot of fire crackers and if the big boys get involved then???

    "The US has more than 12,000 nuclear weapons, the Soviet Union (Russia) has about the same, Great Britain and France have several hundred, and Israel has 150 or more. We have a phalanx of enormous weaponry ... not only of enormous weaponry but of rockets to deliver those missiles on a pinpoint accuracy target," he said, according to a transcript of his remarks.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,,23765222-401,00.html

  132. 132
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Diogenes,

    I think I prefer the video game rather than the real thing.

  133. 133
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    I’m surprised Dario and a few others are so comfortable having someone in Parliament who thinks the world is about to end and that God has punished us with the GFC

    On the contrary, his religious attitudes scare the bejesus out of me, but I fail to see what that has with him taking photos of someone

  134. 134
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    William & BB

    William , I don’t see th relevance of that religous quote is to th photograpgh

    What th quote is this guy is unrepresentative of his electors , and for mine should stand as an independent (and would lose) and has no pace in a mainstream politcal party (Labor or Liberal)

    Photograpgh shows something else …BB is quite wrong to assert a pollie following his hobby of taking photos is excused “as a photohrapher” from every other normal human reactions to actualy save th human immediately by instinct This is a separate ground to suggest th guy has no basic decency judgment at all , and should be representing any voter He has no place in th Party , and would only remain on pregmetic ’seat’ politcs reasons

  135. 135
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m putting good money on it that those statements about God causing the GFC isn’t the first stupid thing Bidgood has said. And there just has to be some intrepid journalist trawling through his past speeches a la Reverend Wright. If I was the journalist, I’d be starting just after 9/11.

  136. 136
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    It’s hard to beat a bit of publicity.

    Bidgood and his revelation currently rating 135 news stories on Google News.

    Not bad for just over a day!

  137. 137
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    What I find disturbing, and described as paparazzi like, is people inserting themselves into the national media

    If you are minding your own business outside Parliament house and someone chucks a mental, it’s not paparazzi-like to take a photo, it’s human nature. Chasing someone in a car 7 days a week with a camera at the ready is paparazzi-like, and the two shouldn’t be compared.

  138. 138
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Kerist Almighty, B.B. Take away the particular case being argued. Imagine, for example, yourself being so distraught about your situation that you douse yourself with petrol and threaten to set yourself alight in a public place. Can you do that? You ant photographs with that?

  139. 139
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    Dario

    They are quite separate and unrelated. Although they are two instances of this guy stuffing up. I’m glad you were only referring to the photo not being a problem (although I disagree). You were getting me worried there.

  140. 140
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood and his revelation currently rating 135 news stories on Google News

    Shows how little the media cares about policy… in that time how many pieces of legislation have been through parliament, and how many things discussed in QT?

  141. 141
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Diogenes, you could probably put a bit of money on the rest of us at some time or another having said something a bit goofy too.

    One good thing though, we don’t have the MSM trailing along behind to allert the rest of the world to it.

    That is something Bidgood will have to learn and quickly, I would think.

  142. 142
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Shows how little the media cares about policy

    Yeah, and you can bet if he was a Lib, that it would have barely got a mention, if at all.

  143. 143
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    HSO
    On the self-immolation thing. Although they often get terrible burns (and quite a few die), they actually do surprisingly well mentally after. Some commit suicide after, but quite a few do well. Perhaps they concentrate on their burns and rehab instead of whatever was causing them to be mentally unwell. We get quite a few who do it as inpatients, in prison or outside court.

  144. 144
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    I would bet that Abbott and Fielding have even more ridiculous loony views and beliefs. The only difference is that Bidgood opened his mouth.

  145. 145
    vera
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Ron there have been a few backdowns in past couple of days by them Libs. Murray water bill, Education bill and expect another backdown before weekend on the Infrastructure bill, being blocked because libs are concerned about pork barrelling no less!!!!

  146. 146
    vera
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    I’m with BB on photogate, mountains outa molehills
    At least he didn’t go over with a match and offer the bloke a smoke.

  147. 147
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Looks like Turnbull & Bishop’s imaginations have got the better of them again.

    STATE treasurers did not propose a so-called national infrastructure bank, the Queensland Treasurer says.
    State Labor treasurers have written to the Federal Government saying its bank guarantee scheme has frustrated their attempts to borrow funds on overseas capital markets.

    But Queensland Treasurer Andrew Fraser told state parliament today that while a number of ideas were put forward, the bank was not one of them.

    "Yes, we did put forward a proposal for bonds to be matched through the AOFM (Australian Office of Financial Management) ... an entity that stands in the market already and has increased its issuance in the market for a range of very sound reasons," he said.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24751221-26103,00.html

  148. 148
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Shows On @ 115. What the hell is wrong with those people? Women can’t wear tight pants! Guys can’t wear a spiky hair style!

    Loooony Tunes! The lot of them. What is their problem?

    Their country is run by a minority of people who want to control the majority of people, and one way of doing so is by enacting and enforcing absolutely absurd laws that act as a threat to make the majority of people conform to other even more absurd and stupid laws.

    What th quote is this guy is unrepresentative of his electors , and for mine should stand as an independent (and would lose) and has no pace in a mainstream politcal party (Labor or Liberal)

    About Half of the Liberal party (the right wing / conservative faction) probably agrees with his views.

  149. 149
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    Dario, I take your point about the difference, but I’d suggest, if not paparazzi like, which was probably an ill-chosen descriptor, then, how about really insensitive, lacking in common sense and ill considered. And he believes in an invisible friend, who does nasty things to the global economy, cos….retribution & the reckoning, etc.

  150. 150
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    Oz @ 116 – Tony Wright

    BTW, just found this:

    [Ms Wright, who took over the catering contract in July, admitted there were still come teething problems.

    “It (Parliament House) is an incredibly large building … but we are working it out,” she told ABC Radio today.

    Customers have had to adjust from self-service to receiving set portions.

    “It has been difficult because the previous contractor had serve-yourself portions.

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,24364908-5006922,00.html

    As for the photographer/part time pollie, according to someone that was there, Bidgood only began talking about giving the money to charity when it eventually dawned on him that propositioning the media probably wasn’t a good look and when asked which charity he wanted the money sent to couldn’t think of one. Guess he hasn’t been following one of Rudd’s first edicts about getting involved with the less fortunate.

  151. 151
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Diogenes, the first suicide I was involved with was of a young woman who doused herself with petrol and set herself alight. She took 3 days to die, and it was truly awful. Are you doing a burns unit?

  152. 152
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    vera

    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:58 pm | Permalink
    “Ron there have been a few backdowns in past couple of days by them Libs”

    Looks like they’ve invented a new back step shuffle dance Vera

  153. 153
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood was already in Rudd’s bad books. It turns out that he described Rudd’s actions in Phonegate as “indiscreet”. He retracted that a few hours later.

    JAMES BIDGOOD, LABOR BACKBENCHER: There's no question that Kevin Rudd was indiscrete.

  154. 154
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Julia Gillard just said “A silly set of propositions by the opposition” about 16 times in a row.

    A good interview with her but she stacked it at the end.

  155. 155
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    how about really insensitive

    And the Canberra Times journalist who also took photographs?

  156. 156
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Shocking footage on Lateline concerning dental health in nursing homes.

    The Minister has urged the dentist who took the photos to send his report directly to her, but I think Rudd should intervene.

  157. 157
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    The Editor of the Telegraph which first ran the story & pictures tells a different story than that.

    I think this one can go into the same box as Rudd’s dog, nanny and butler. Libs grasping at any feeble thing.

  158. 158
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood only began talking about giving the money to charity when it eventually dawned on him that propositioning the media probably wasn’t a good look and when asked which charity he wanted the money sent to couldn’t think of one

    news.com denied that he asked for money, just that he wanted a donation made to charity

  159. 159
    Diogenes
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    HSO

    Yep, I’ve been in the Burns Unit here for five years. I should point out that the police or security guys did a great job in that case, not just from a bravery point of view. You can actually die without setting fire to yourself if you’re covered in petrol. It can cause a chemical burn and lung damage. They washed him off with water and saved him.

  160. 160
    enjaybee
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    The Parliament House food issue would probably have received far less, as in no, media attention if the owner of the catering company, which had only very, very recently taken on the contract, wasn’t married to a senior political journo who went on and on about it in the days and weeks afterward.

    Who was that?!

    She is the wife of Tony Wright

  161. 161
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    WOW I didn’t know that Clare Martin was now CEO of ACOSS.

    In other news, Barnaby Joyce thinks the economic stimulus package is going to result in an increase in rape. :D

  162. 162
    vera
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    ron
    Dancing with the pollies? Isn’t that a TV show?

  163. 163
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    She is the wife of Tony Wright

    Name a political reporter more boring than Tony Wright…

    GO!

  164. 164
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    HSO and william… I’d love to argue all night with youse, but I said I’d had enough of the Bidgood Affair and I have to stick with that.

    Suffice it to say that my argument cares not either way for Bidgood’s religious beliefs. They’re irrelevant to my mind. And as to the morality of his situation, HSO, you should know better than to judge others by your own beliefs as to what is proper and decent.

    Now it really is “to bed” for me.

    G’night all.

  165. 165
    scorpio
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    This is unusual, the media accusing the media of inciting terrorism. Makes some very telling points too and well backed up. Well worth a read.

    One suspects the terrorists spent far too much time listening to the BBC World Service.

    Let's hasten to add that by no means should the BBC alone be singled out. When it comes to terrorists and their grievances, nearly all the Western media have provided them with a rich diet on which to feed.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24747361-7583,00.html

  166. 166
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    Dario
    “If you are minding your own business outside Parliament house and someone chucks a mental, it’s not paparazzi-like to take a photo, it’s human nature”

    Bullsh.t
    .
    Human nature is to instinctively either try to stop th guy or alternatively seek to find Security/police to prevent someone torching themselves

    I suppose its human nature to witness a head on car crash and pull out your nippon camera , rather than instinctively try to render assistance

  167. 167
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    In other news, Barnaby Joyce thinks the economic stimulus package is going to result in an increase in rape

    And yet he kept quiet about all of Johnny’s handouts… does that make him a rape accomplice?

  168. 168
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Human nature is to instinctively either try to stop th guy or alternatively seek to find Security/police to prevent someone torching themselves

    The police had already stopped him torching himself. Look at the photo.

  169. 169
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    Human nature is to instinctively either try to stop th guy or alternatively seek to find Security/police to prevent someone torching themselves

    Ronster, read more about human nature. Those words put in that order actually mean something.

    I suppose its human nature to witness a head on car crash and pull out your nippon camera , rather than instinctively try to render assistance

    Don’t be racial now Ronster, you mean Nikkon.

  170. 170
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Oh I see so I suppose its human nature to witness a head on car crash and NOT pull out your nippon camera , rather than instinctively try to render assistance….and only do so after th medics hav arrived

    Only an indecent person takes photos of tragedys , and th victim is one

  171. 171
    Oz
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Why’s he keep calling it a “nippon” camera?

    “Sino” reflects more on accurately on where it’s manufactured.

  172. 172
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Oh I see so I suppose its human nature to witness a head on car crash and NOT pull out your nippon camera , rather than instinctively try to render assistance….and only do so after th medics hav arrived

    Human nature existed well before cars and cameras was my point.

    Only an indecent person takes photos of tragedys , and th victim is one

    This is completely absurd! Some of the most famous photos in history have been of people being killed, or killing themselves, such as:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Nguyen.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Ngoc_Loan

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/The_Falling_Man.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_man

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Burningmonk.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c

    WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT IN ALL OF THE ABOVE LINKS

    Are you honestly saying that none of these photos should’ve been taken? Or are you just saying they shouldn’t be published?

    I think it was extremely important for the photos to be taken and for them to be distributed.

  173. 173
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Why’s he keep calling it a “nippon” camera?

    I assume it is a typo. I think he means Nikon.

    I don’t think he is deliberately being racist, it just sounds like it.

  174. 174
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Only an indecent person takes photos of tragedys , and th victim is one

    Or a photographer, or former photographer. How else would we have photos of tradegies the world over?

  175. 175
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    I assume it is a typo

    I think we should call it a ‘Ronno’

  176. 176
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    And so to bed for me, as well. Bushie, there is a difference between being judgmental and making an informed judgement, as I think you well know.
    Dario, taking photos of someone in an invidious situation is, just, well distasteful at the very least.

  177. 177
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Barnaby reckons the economic stimulus package is going to result in more rapes? No, c’mon, surely not, what a day for stupid comments!

    How? Why? It’s not a full moon is it?

    Another religious loooony tune, no doubt.

  178. 178
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    How? Why? It’s not a full moon is it?

    This was his reasoning – More money means more people buy alcohol, more people buy alcohol the more they want to have sex, the more they want to have sex, the more likely they are to rape someone.

    Barnaby obviously hasn’t considered the possibility that people will just take the cash and spend it on a prostitute! Thus saving the need to buy alcohol, and commit a criminal offense.

  179. 179
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Dario, taking photos of someone in an invidious situation is, just, well distasteful at the very least

    I’m sure many professional photograpers in war zones around the world would agree with you

  180. 180
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    This was his reasoning - More money means more people buy alcohol, more people buy alcohol the more they want to have sex, the more they want to have sex, the more likely they are to rape someone.

    As I said earlier, I wonder what his view on Johnny’s handouts over the years was…

  181. 181
    Pica
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    It’s human nature to run away from potential danger, it’s either brave or callous to stand there and photograph it. Bigood made a smallbad by being callous, but it’s not a hanger, however, my human nature tells me to ran as far away from end-of-timers as I can, and I hope they disendorse him.

  182. 182
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    As I said earlier, I wonder what his view on Johnny’s handouts over the years was…

    To be fair, I think he broke ranks and said the Coalition should hand the baby bonus out as quarterly payments, rather than as a lump sum.

    So I guess he is just trying to make the same point. But I don’t think he helped himself by linking the payments to rape.

  183. 183
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    my human nature tells me to ran as far away from end-of-timers as I can, and I hope they disendorse him.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that finds end of timers scary.

    I mean, why should we care about the world and the future of humanity if the world is about to end and we can’t do anything about it?

    It just makes me thankful Obama / Biden won, instead of Palin and that old guy.

  184. 184
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    But I don’t think he helped himself by linking the payments to rape

    No, I can’t imagine that was mentioned about the baby bonus… although the comparison would have been quite amusing!

  185. 185
    vera
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Rat attack: Mosman ready for rodent invasion

    What would you make of this healine inthe SMH? lol
    Isn’t that where a certain ex PM lives?

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/mosman-ready-for-rat-invasion/2008/12/03/1228257139088.html

  186. 186
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    it’s either brave or callous to stand there and photograph it

    He was a professional photographer in the past apparently

    my human nature tells me to ran as far away from end-of-timers as I can, and I hope they disendorse him

    Can’t argue with that

  187. 187
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    This was his reasoning – More money means more people buy alcohol, more people buy alcohol the more they want to have sex, the more they want to have sex, the more likely they are to rape someone.

    Um…wouldn’t lowering taxes on alcohol produce the same outcome? Particularly, if the alcoholic product was being marketed to the young, i.e. hormones on legs, a demographic not renowned for exercising restraint whilst p*ssed as newts?

  188. 188
    Dario
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Um…wouldn’t lowering taxes on alcohol produce the same outcome? Particularly, if the alcoholic product was being marketed to the young, i.e. hormones on legs, a demographic not renowned for exercising restraint whilst p*ssed as newts?

    This is Barnaby we are talking about… logic rarely comes in to it

  189. 189
    Ron
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Well we hav 3 red herrings going all at once to camoflage Bidgood’s indecent cold blooded action

    you will find Kevin Rudd agreeing with me , thats why Bidgood got a well deserved roost from his rh man Unlike yous guys Rudd’s team didn’t hav partisan glases on , it was a non natural distasteful action , and he was told that bluntly , and i’m sure no other MP would hav done Labor or Liberal , so yous defenses look quite lame

    As to ‘paid’ photographers , those that give us pictures of tragedys before rending assistance ar also indecent I tink , and most people would prefer assistance given …and happy to miss out on th tragedy photo if there is a choise , exceept strange minds What sort of people would feel otherwise

    Whats this racial herring , so its not nippon but nikkon is a brand , just missed out a few letters along th way Reel point is he pulled out a camera and it has a brand name , and his camera should not hav been pulled out , and also he is an MP not a news photogrpgher anyway

    when yous guys back yourself into an over partisan corner , you look quite inconsistent criticising oppositions like Bishop’s foolish hand signal to julia for also doing stupid things

  190. 190
    Harry "Snapper" Organs
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Dario @ 179. As I’m sure you’re aware, there are prices to be paid. And there’s a discussion to be had, if William would allow. I suspect William would want it to relate even tangentially to psephy stuff.
    Really have to exit stage left and catch up with you tomorrow.

  191. 191
    Centre
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Oooohhh, if people have got money, then they can party, drink alcohol, feel horny, and have sex.

    What a scream! Barnaby can go where the goodies go, we’ll go where Paris, Lindsay and Brittany go LOL.

  192. 192
    onimod
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    On the end of timers – have you noticed them consistently advertising in the financial section of the News Ltd websites?

  193. 193
    MayoFeral
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    I mean, why should we care about the world and the future of humanity if the world is about to end and we can’t do anything about it?</i.

    Even more scary is that some of the End of Timers want to hasten the End by encouraging the wars, etc, that are supposed to trigger the Rapture.

  194. 194
    Tom the first and best
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    ShowsOn @ 172

    Would it not be a good idea to put the graphic content warning above the links not below them?

  195. 195
    ShowsOn
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    you will find Kevin Rudd agreeing with me

    Argument from authority. Try again.

    As to ‘paid’ photographers , those that give us pictures of tragedys before rending assistance ar also indecent I tink

    How do you render assistance to a person who has jumped from the World Trade Center when you are standing on the ground?

    Whats this racial herring , so its not nippon but nikkon is a brand

    I proposed that you WEREN’T deliberately being racial, but it would’ve been good if you corrected yourself earlier to dispel that impression.

    when yous guys back yourself into an over partisan corner

    You’re the one being partisan, you are agreeing with whatever Kevin Rudd says.

  196. 196
    PAAPTSEF
    Posted Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    It’s a photo of a person being saved.
    Since when has it been morally wrong to take a photo of someone being saved? What was he supposed to do, grab the bucket of water off the copper and tell him he’s doing it all wrong? Move closer so that he’s in the way and asked to move back? Grab a police radio and start screaming mayday into it?
    Emotional response to witnessing someone saved from mortal danger: releif – joy – happiness? isn’t that likely to have been Bidgood’s state of mind at the time he took the picture?

  197. 197
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    SNIP: You know this won’t do, Dario – The Management.

  198. 198
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    SNIP: +1 – The Management.

  199. 199
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    Would it not be a good idea to put the graphic content warning above the links not below them?

    Are you saying that the following text wasn’t enough of a warning in itself?

    This is completely absurd! Some of the most famous photos in history have been of people being killed, or killing themselves, such as:

    If you are worried the internet may offend you, don’t click ANY links under ANY circumstances.

    Even more scary is that some of the End of Timers want to hasten the End by encouraging the wars, etc, that are supposed to trigger the Rapture.

    Oh of course. This is why fundamentalist Christians support certain extremist elements in Israel, because they think that their success will lead to nuclear conflict with Iran.

  200. 200
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Liberals’ second-in-charge needs to lift her game and soon – Michelle Grattan
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/liberals-secondincharge-needs-to-lift-her-game-and-soon-20081204-6rhc.html
    The heat is on.

  201. 201
    onimod
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    200 Gary

    When the less than intellectual political press gallery is that far ahead of you, you really have to question your skills as a politician.
    It’s like Grattan is giving her daughter the speech after she’s just scraped enough marks to go to university or something.
    Also – is Bishop still in charge of the Libs policy review?
    Yeah right…

  202. 202
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    ShowsOn and Dario

    So Rudd’s chief of staff gives Bidgood a drssing down for taking th photo ….but not yous you still want to defend Bidgood

    Yous ar past being over partisan , you ar out of step with Labor

    Not surprising seeing your defense of Bidgood is quite out of strp with normative decency standards anyway

    Instead of simply saying th guy made a stupid callous decision , you’ve continued to defend him , and with th support i’d guess of few in community ….and certainly not th Federal Labor party

  203. 203
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    So Rudd’s chief of staff gives Bidgood a drssing down for taking th photo ….but not yous you still want to defend Bidgood

    I haven’t mentioned Bidgood once in this thread. All I have done is demonstrate that your ‘rules’ for determining when it is acceptable to take a photo of someone are completely incoherent, because they are contradicted by some of the most famous photos of all time.

    Not surprising seeing your defense of Bidgood is quite out of strp with normative decency standards anyway

    NO WAY! Are you suggesting that thinking logically is no longer a core left policy!?

    I thought the left invented reason and rationality.

    Instead of simply saying th guy made a stupid callous decision , you’ve continued to defend him ,

    Quote any post of mine from this thread that defends Bidgood’s actions. I haven’t even MENTIONED his actions in this thread. You’re boxing at shadows as usual Ronster, and are completely missing the point of my posts.

  204. 204
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    A spokesman for Kevin Rudd said the actions of the MP were “deeply offensive”. It is understood Mr Bidgood was called into the Prime Minister’s office and ordered to apologise to parliament and write a letter of apology to the family. It is also reported Bidgood got prior dresing down from Rudd’s Chief of staff

    Well who agrees with Kevin Rudd vs who still defends Bidgood’s actions?

    Guys , no evasions , simple choise

  205. 205
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:43 am | Permalink

    A bit of advice from Germany’s conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel to the Canadians about running a coalition government.

    Basically it seems, strap yourself in, don’t sit in the middle and hold on tight for an interesting ride.

    LONDON — Shortly after she agreed to form a coalition government whose odd pairing makes Canada's proposed Liberal-NDP-Bloc matchup seem mild, Germany's conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel likened the exercise to a national soccer team.

    The players all hate each other, she said, because they come from competing teams, but "once we're in the same boat, we're forced to pull in the same direction."

    Hours after she gave that interview, the German national team lost in an awkward World Cup semi-final. Her government seems to be faring similarly.

    That, Canadians may well learn, is the lesson of multiparty coalition governments, which rule most countries in the West: It's a sport requiring discipline and concentration.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wcoalition04/BNStory/International/home

  206. 206
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    “discombobulated”

    Greatest word to have ever been published in the media.

  207. 207
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:48 am | Permalink

    Harper to meet G-G in less than an hour.

    Dare I stay up!?!

  208. 208
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    “discombobulated”’

    Yeah. I tried to Google it to find out what it meant and it crashed my computer.

  209. 209
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    Mr Della Bosca said a Federal Government report found that a total advertising ban could reduce drinking by 25 per cent and road fatalities by 30 per cent. It could also cut the social costs of alcohol abuse by $3.86 billion.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/alcohol-ads-must-go-della-bosca/2008/12/04/1228257229300.html

    Surely this outweighs any economic benefits to be gained from advertising?

  210. 210
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    This is an interesting economic analysis by George Megalogenis. The comments are well worth a read too.

    A year ago, household consumption was worth 55.9 per cent of GDP. Now it’s 53.7 per cent - a record low. A year ago, federal, state and local spending was worth another 17.8 per cent of GDP. Now it is 17.3 per cent - a figure last seen in 1979.

    How did federal Labor manage to run against the cycle?

    The simple answer is they didn’t know what they were doing. The more subtle explanation is that neither did the Reserve Bank. Glenn Stevens was still raising interest rates in February and March - the very quarter that the data tells us the economy had peaked. It is easier for the Reserve Bank governor to admit error. He can cut interest rates as fast as he can raise them.

    But prime ministers don’t enjoy the same flexibility with fiscal policy because the lead times are longer. The Rudd Government inherited an over-heated economy, with inflation too high for comfort and fiscal and monetary policies in open conflict.

    http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/meganomics/index.php/theaustralian/comments/number_crunchers_missed_turn/

  211. 211
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    This here doesn’t help the Coalition’s latest attack on Labor re the refugee/boat people issue.

    INDONESIAN police have smashed a people-smuggling ring, arresting the kingpin of the syndicate responsible for sending rickety vessels laden with asylum seekers on the perilous journey to Australia.

    Brigadier General Badrodin Haiti, director for national security at Indonesian police headquarters, told The Age yesterday that the arrest of an Iranian man, Haj Sakih, his accomplices and some Indonesian nationals had busted a major people-smuggling racket.

    The syndicate has smuggled scores of asylum seekers, most of them Middle Eastern, to Australia over the past three years.

    "He is a big fish," Brigadier General Haiti said of Sakih. "His connection is with Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. He smuggled people to Australia several times, both successfully and unsuccessfully."

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/arrests-crack-peoplesmuggling-ring-20081204-6rp9.html

  212. 212
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    This will all be forgotten in another week.

    Speaker Harry Jenkins has inquired into the issue and says he has checked that Mr Bidgood's actions did not interfere with security matters.

    "I have concluded his actions did not cause interference," he said.

    "In relation to all other questions raised I have concluded the actions may have been insensitive and inappropriate as described by the member for Dawson himself, I do not recommend any further action."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/04/2438390.htm?section=justin

  213. 213
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    Harry Jenkins as Speaker concluded his investigation as stated on security matters , and of course found security had not been interferred with

    But it does not change th fact Rudd dressing Bitgood down , nor fact Rudd’s chief of Staff dressing him down , nor fact Rudds spokesman said the actions of the MP were “deeply “offensive” nor fact Bidgood was called into the Prime Minister’s office and ordered to apologise to parliament and write a letter of apology to the family

    Defenders arguments of Bitgood’s actions ar in tatters ….proved BY Rudd’s reactions alone , apart from common decency

    Whilst th event may be forgotton in a week newswise , am not sure that his photo action/religous comments will be when pre selection s arise in 2010…. i wouldn’t pre select him on either ground

  214. 214
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    Amigo FINNS

    Tonite have done my Amigo “bit of good” ….’Bitgood’ defenders have surrendered….in silence , but I did not address a curious “psephology” post tonite this being a politcal site & tinking you with th Macchu Piccu ‘knowledge trees’ inspirations could psephologicaly unravel for me :

    “More money means more people buy alcohol, more people buy alcohol , the more they want to have sex..”

    Did thought th first two conditions were quite irrelevant to th third

  215. 215
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Canadian GG agrees to Harper’s request to prorogue Parliament:
    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/harper-jean.html

    As expected.

  216. 216
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    What an utter shambles the Opposition are:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/05/2438417.htm

    I note that the responsible shadow minister in the Senate refused to vote in support of his own Cabinet’s decision.

  217. 217
    Muskiemp
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    About Bidgood and that photo. The person who doused himself with petrol to protest would have wanted the photo taken to aid in his protest. Instead the story is now about the photographer not the protester, all for political point scoring.

  218. 218
    The Finnigans
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Amigo Ronnie, are u emulating the Cat woman by bloggin at 2am?

    i am also thinking about my Maccu Picchu “Knowledge Tree”, because i wonder how long can it last?

    President Elect Obi has made big splash on his economic team, security team etc. Of which, basically, the old Clinton Teams in disguise. But we forgive him, especially his wise decision and now arm-in-arm with Hillary.

    Queen Noor of Jordan - Hillary Clinton will be a strong, effective Secretary of State in the new Obama administration. I observed first hand her commitment to peace and justice during the presidency of Bill Clinton, when Jordan's King Hussein, my late husband, and I worked closely with the Clintons in an attempt to achieve a Middle East peace. When they take office next year, I know that President-elect Obama and she quickly will begin looking for ways to bring security to Israel and justice to Palestinians, including four to six million Palestinian refugees.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/her-majesty-queen-noor/hillary-clinton—a-champ_b_147699.html

    But I am not forgiving him for making NO splash at all on his Environment Team, CC, Kyoto etc. This should be his next big splash, else we will put him under the bus as per usual.

    btw: Diog’s silence on this issue is also deafening. And where is Amigo GG?

  219. 219
    juliem
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    ltep @ 215,

    from a story on Canadian English google news …

    OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper has won a stay of political execution - at least until January.

    We must remember this is only a reprieve for Harper, his troubles are still very much with him ;-)

  220. 220
    juliem
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    "Checkmate to you, Mr. Harper"

    Step three: introduce (out of the blue, of course) a total cut of public funding for political parties and suspend the right to strike for all public-sector unions.

    I get it now. Canadians were expecting you to manage the finances of the country in a thoughtful, responsible manner. Little did they know that the smartest course of action during economic downturn, instability and war would in fact be to go after the civil service and functionally cripple your political opponents.

    Prime Minister, I know this is getting embarrassing, but I feel sorry for Dion, Layton and Duceppe. I mean, none of them thought they’d be ready for government in two years, let alone two weeks. Instead, you provided them with three alternatives:

    1. Allow the economic update to pass, along with the cuts to the party funding on which all three opposition parties depend.

    2. Go into another election, one which they would handily lose.

    3. Form a coalition government.

    http://www.martlet.ca/article/6329-checkmate-to-you-mr-harper

  221. 221
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Ronster

    Bidgood’s photographic escapades will be forgotten as an error of judgement and taste in a few days. His comment that the GFC was an Act of God will haunt him forever to his political grave. Imagine how the poor bastards in his electorate who are losing their jobs feel about being part of divine retribution.

    If the Ruddster had a genius solution which would fix the GFC with the flick of a switch, Bidgood would oppose Rudd fixing it. The Opposition are going to make mincemeat of him and Labor. Turnbull is going to ask “What credibility does a Party have on the economy if one of it’s members thinks God caused the GFC and we’re entering the “end of days” predicted in Revelation?”

    Finns

    Obi’s not even POTUS yet! Let’s wait until he gets there before we apportion blame. Anyway, under Ron’s agreement with me, the failure of the world to change it’s emission enough to avert global warming falls squarely in Hillary’s lap. Obi can take a little bit of the blame if he doesn’t cut US domestic use. I’m still using 20% reduction by 2020 based on 1990 emissions as my gold standard. We’ll compare Obi and Rudd.

  222. 222
    MayoFeral
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    I see the media is making a big deal of the $600k cost of Rudd’s overseas trips in the first half of the year. Someone remind me how much it cost to shuttle Howard between Sydney and Canberra every day because the missus wasn’t impressed by the Lodge. I seem to recall it was about $1 million a year. I do know that $100k went on silk wallpaper and imported mattresses for one of the Howard Air 737s.

  223. 223
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Hurray for Harps!!!

    Juliem public opinion will destroy this subversive attempt to steal the reins of government in Canada now that Harper has until January to survive…

    Also there are cracks already forming in the Liberal Party even now on the Coalition agreement….

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/opposition_reaction_AM_081204/20081204?hub=TopStories

    Cracks in coalition staring to show: Liberal MP

  224. 224
    triton
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    This Friday sitting of parliament is a little less rowdy than the last one.

  225. 225
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Looks like Canadians still want Harper in power….

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/parliament-poll.html

    Support for Tories up amid House crisis, CBC-EKOS poll suggests

    “According to the poll, Stephen Harper’s Conservatives received 44 per cent of respondents’ support, up from the 37.6 per cent support the Tories received in the federal election that returned them to Ottawa with another minority government just seven weeks ago.

    The results suggest support for Stéphane Dion’s Liberals is down two percentage points from the election with 24 per cent of respondents’ support, while the New Democrats are down almost four percentage points at 14.5 per cent support.

    Meanwhile, the NDP received 14.5 per cent of respondents’ support, while the Bloc was at nine per cent and the Greens at eight per cent.”

  226. 226
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    I’m trying to work out Ron’s angle on this… apparently as Labor supporters we are not allowed to disagree with the views of the almighty Rudd on ‘Immogate’. Ron, do you disagree with Rudd on any issue?

  227. 227
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I’m trying to work out Ron’s angle on this… apparently as Labor supporters we are not allowed to disagree with the views of the almighty Rudd on ‘Immogate’. Ron, do you disagree with Rudd on any issue?

    According to Ronster, if we disagree with Rudd then that means we are party hacks!

    It makes PERFECT sense.

  228. 228
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    The Liberals just imploded in the Senate.

  229. 229
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    According to Ronster, if we disagree with Rudd then that means we are party hacks!

    It makes PERFECT sense.

    Yes, I’m totally confused

  230. 230
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    The Liberals just imploded in the Senate

    Details Oz?

  231. 231
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Itep linked earlier:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/05/2438417.htm

  232. 232
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    I doubt the media will focus on it much

  233. 233
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    David Kirk, Fairfax CEO, resigned today.

    The media here are getting slaughtered.

  234. 234
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    There’s no doubt the government has the opposition shadow cabinet spooked.

    Senator Minchin told the Senate the decision was taken because of the "scare campaign" the Opposition would have faced had it stuck to its original position.
    "But I regret to say that on balance it is the Coalition's position that we will not insist on these amendments," he said.
    "The Government will spend the next two months falsely asserting all over this country that we are responsible for denying infrastructure funding for every road bridge and port in the country."

  235. 235
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    we are responsible for denying infrastructure funding for every road bridge and port in the country

    Well that’s largely what they’ve been doing for the last 12 years…

  236. 236
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I actually agreed with some of he amendments put forward, especially regarding increased transparency.

  237. 237
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    I doubt the media will focus on it much

    It was just covered on ABC News, including footage of the division.

  238. 238
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    It was just covered on ABC News, including footage of the division

    I stand corrected. Perhaps the ABC is feeling the spirit of the season?

  239. 239
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    I stand corrected. Perhaps the ABC is feeling the spirit of the season?

    It’s now the head line story on The Australian website:
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24754820-601,00.html

  240. 240
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    A Coalition source said the split was a direct challenge to Mr Turnbull and not the result of a communication mix-up

  241. 241
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    A Coalition source said the split was a direct challenge to Mr Turnbull and not the result of a communication mix-up

    There you go… a nice Christmas present for the ALP

  242. 242
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Why would the Libs end the Parliamantary year on such a bad note? It’s just going to raise questions about the leadership team over the Christmas break. They really need a goog, long hard look at themselves over summer. Their discipline is terrible, especially when compared to the iron rule Rudd has over Labor.

  243. 243
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Wow, it is the FIRST story on ABC TV1’s Midday Report.

  244. 244
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Talk about a stupid way to insert themselves as the headline act for the media Silly Season over the next 5 weeks.

    Foot, meet shotgun.

  245. 245
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Any sign of leadership problems is grist for the mill as far as the media goes. I’m not surprised.

  246. 246
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Julie Bishop performing poorly, Turnbull being ignored. If ever there was a party in trouble this is it.

  247. 247
    Spam Box
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    ho ho ho – I’m really enjoying this Christmas already :) Every paper I’ve seen this morning is belting the Libs on a number of fronts

    It really is a Merry Christmas :)

  248. 248
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Robb blames Labor for their stuff up in the Senate. Say what?

  249. 249
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    It’s looking really bad for Turnbull. His “team” is leaking like a sieve. The Opposition opposition are making sure that the journos know the split was a deliberate challenge to Turnbull. Even Dennis has caned him.

    MALCOLM Turnbull's authority as Leader of the Opposition is under threat after the second Senate revolt in a week.

    The Liberal leader’s ability to manage a fractious Coalition, a rebellious backbench and confront a rampant Labor Government is being questioned by some Coalition MPs and senators who are complaining about his style.

    ‘’He’s trying to run things too much like a business, giving out an order like a CEO and then expecting it to be followed,’’ one Coalition senator told The Australian Online this morning.

    ‘’There are some decisions you just have to stand against.’’

  250. 250
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Hah ShowsOn and you think the media is biased against Rudd…we Libs never get a thing!

    Now it doesnt matter how well Julie performs because the media have got it out for her they’re never going to let up…this in spite of the fact Swan is doing little better if not worse!

  251. 251
    zombie mao
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    The Howardistas just won’t die will they

    It is soooo amusing

  252. 252
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Glen

    Why can’t Turnbull keep his team behind him? You are a rabble at the moment.

  253. 253
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Hah ShowsOn and you think the media is biased against Rudd…we Libs never get a thing!

    Where have I EVER said that THE MEDIA is biased against Rudd?

    I don’t even accept the concept of “THE MEDIA”.

    Now it doesnt matter how well Julie performs because the media have got it out for her they’re never going to let up

    Julie Bishop’s problem is that she is one of the most over rated members of the federal parliament. She was a mediocre education minister who basically didn’t do anything. Her crowning achievement was the push for a national curriculum, but now she is deputy leader of a party who spent most of the last few weeks opposition a national curriculum!

    The longer she remains deputy leader the easier things will be for the government.

  254. 254
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Why can’t Turnbull keep his team behind him? You are a rabble at the moment.

    Because which ever way they look at him they see an arse? :-D

  255. 255
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    So who would you have replace her with if she’s so terrible?

    I think Abbott is being wasted where he is, i dont want him to be leader but he was a senior minister for some years…

  256. 256
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Glen, your attack on Swan lacks one very important ingredient – fact. Swan started off nervously but he has performed well. He is not one of Labor’s star performers, granted, but neither is he as bad as you want the characterise him as being. On that score Bishop leaves him for dead.

  257. 257
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    So who would you have replace her with if she’s so terrible?

    Well after today’s antics in the Senate….

    BRING BACK NELSON!

  258. 258
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Gary did you see QT yesterday?? Did you see how Swan bumbled his way around not answering a question on setting up a new Government Bank…Jenkins called him to answer it 4 times before he sat down…he is not getting better IMHO.

  259. 259
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Besides Glen, attacking Labor members will not sove the myriad of problems your side face.
    By all means bring Abbott, that John Howard and Workchoices fan, to the fore. What an addition to Labor’s cause. Drag out someone from the past to go into the future.

  260. 260
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Glen, did you see Swan say in QT (which I did watch by the way) that the proposition Bishops put up about the bank were absurd?

  261. 261
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Shannahan tries to prop up Turnbull’s corpse.

    but the Liberal revolt has been more contained to protect Turnbull’s authority.

    And then the Nationals come out with this!

    Former nationals Seante leader Ron Boswell was quick to fly the Nationals' rebellious flag while Liberals grumbled and complained.

    “Last night’s Senate vote shows that rural Australia remains a force to be reckoned with on the national political stage,” Senator Boswell said today.

    “Those who ignore the interests of the bush will pay a political price."

    The last sentence spells out exactly “WHO” is paying the political price!

    But for the moment, the image of fractured Coalition shambolically avoiding confronting Labor is a political price Turnbull is paying as parliament rises for Christmas.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24755034-17301,00.html

  262. 262
    rogan
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    The Libs should have insisted on the amendments, work out a story to tell about it (”The Government could have had its infrastrucutre fund – our amendments concerned only a relatively small part, which was nevertheless set aside for improvements in country areas”) and let the Government do its worst. Would that be so hard?

    Instead, they’ve allowed the Government to wedge them, and possibly lost a lot of trust in rural areas. AND the Government now knows how to wedge them again, if they ever need/want to. As a result of these actions, the Coalition have basically guaranteed they will face wedging of the city slickers against the hayseeds again, and they’ll eventually have to make a stand on some rural issue or another -and they may as well have taken whatever insults the government could throw at them now.

    Great work guys! Time for some new tacticians! There are some reasonable tacticians in the Parliamentary Liberal Party. Sitting on the backbench, of course…

  263. 263
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    So who would you have replace her with if she’s so terrible?

    Once the Liberals have conceded that they’re going to lose the next election they should now focus on getting rid of Howard’s old guard in safe seats and replacing them with people who may be decent politicians, like Abbot, but aren’t tainted by so much of Howard’s rubbish.

  264. 264
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Cossie will be leader before mid 09

  265. 265
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Cossie will be leader before mid 09

    I hope so. I want to see him lose an election as the leader of a party.

  266. 266
    The Finnigans
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Love conquers all - except La Gillardine - But La Gillardine couldn't resist one last shot. "I hear she's tested very well as Catwoman."

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/annabel-crabb/no-love-from-la-gillardine/2008/12/04/1228257227521.html

    So who is the real catwoman here?

    We used to have one here at PB before she escaped to become one of the fugitives on the G Island. Or is it JB with her meow meow claw as per described by La Gillardine.

    Or maybe, it is our amigo Ronster who was doing one hand bloggin at 2am like the old catwoman used to do.

  267. 267
    The Finnigans
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    The catwoman is in trouble according to La Michelle:

    Liberals' second-in-charge needs to lift her game and soon - "Gillard can mix it with the boys. Bishop can't. Gillard can cope in a man's world. Bishop is operating in a man's world."

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/liberals-secondincharge-needs-to-lift-her-game-and-soon-20081204-6rhc.html?page=-1

  268. 268
    evan14
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    G’day William and fellow Bludgers, it’s good to be back!
    Yes, what a rabble the Liberals are, last night’s vote in the senate was quite farcical!
    Indeed, a rather humiliating week for Turnball, that tosser Pyne, and the others.
    I guess the only success for the Libs was James Bidgood’s stuffup, which actually wasn’t as bad as the media made out. He’ll learn from it, he’s probably the sort of offbeat character people in Dawson want representing them.
    And, I kinda agree with Glen, Tanner is a much better parliamentary performer than Swan.

  269. 269
    evan14
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Dario:
    If Smirky is still member for Higgins in 6 months time, he’ll make a move on Turnball, if the polls haven’t moved in a positive direction for Malcolm.
    Bring on the Liberal infighting!

  270. 270
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Gary if it was absurd he should have said NO shouldnt he?

  271. 271
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    So who is the real catwoman here?

    Annabel Crabb.

    I used to like her and she sometimes comes up with insightful things but her shallow and pointless “analysis” of parliament is pretty dumb.

    All she does is remember a few witty lines, change the names of the politicians to nicknames and publish it verbatim.

  272. 272
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    And, I kinda agree with Glen, Tanner is a much better parliamentary performer than Swan.

    Tanner is one of the best politicians of our generation.

    Swan doesn’t have to be a better parliamentary performer than Tanner to be an effective and hard-working treasurer.

  273. 273
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    I hope Swan stays Treasurer…but if Rudd wants to look competant then he should be removed in favour of Tanner.

    But Tanner cant have it and neither can Julia because they are of the Left Faction of the ALP LOL! So the ALP ends up with Swan.

  274. 274
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Glen, I’ll give you one Swan for a hundred Julies.

    Err, no I won’t. How about one Bidgood for twenty Julies?

  275. 275
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Swan doesn’t have to be a better parliamentary performer than Tanner to be an effective and hard-working treasurer.

    Exactly

  276. 276
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Ill trade you the Member for O’Connor and the Member for Canning for Bidgood.

  277. 277
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood can sit next to Alex Hawke….lol!

  278. 278
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Bidgood can sit next to Alex Hawke….lol!

    Alex Hawke is a time bomb waiting to damage the opposition.

    It may not happen this term, or in 3 terms from now, but eventually he will be involved in something that will severely damage the Liberal party.

  279. 279
    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Geez you drive a hard bargain, Glen. One Armageddon guy for two flat earthers …. I don’t know…

  280. 280
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Tuckey is how old in his 70s…why oh why cant we recruit someone in the 20s/30s to take his seat?????

    But he is worth a laugh…didnt he and Keating almost come to fists???

  281. 281
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Tuckey is how old in his 70s…why oh why cant we recruit someone in the 20s/30s to take his seat?????

    What about Ruddock??? He’s doing jack all.

  282. 282
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Yes but Ruddock actually did stuff while we were in Government he deserves to wait….Tuckey has done jack all…

    Id stick Tuckey and Katter in a Room and lock it lol!

  283. 283
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Glen what’s so different about saying an idea is absurd and saying no to it? Why would anyone introduce something that they reckon is absurd and would be reminded of their description of it in future if they did so?
    I realise you come from the party of Howard where every word by your leader had to be analysed ten times and then some before you could believe a thing he said but this is ridiculous.

  284. 284
    vera
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    This talk by the Nats about betrayal of the bushby Libs and that the rural folk agreed to the sell off of telstra on condition of $2bill fund to be used on them is garbage.
    I’m in rural NSW and the running poll (for 2 yrs before sell off) on local online newspaper site always had 75% AGAINST sell off.

  285. 285
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    If it was absurd as you claim then how come Swan A) didnt say it was absurd and B) wouldnt say No?

    The Nats should come to their senses and merge with the Libs…

  286. 286
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Glen, Swan DID say it was absurd. You want to play word games.

  287. 287
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    But saying it is absurd is not denying it, all he had to say was this…

    ‘We have no intention of creating a State owned bank, it is an absurd suggestion’

    But he didnt…

  288. 288
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Let me ask again Glen and please try and answer the question why would anyone introduce something that they reckon is absurd with the knowledge that they would be reminded of their description of it if they did so?

  289. 289
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Well this is Swan we are talking about…

  290. 290
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    That’s a weak response Glen. I think I’ve made my point.

  291. 291
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    All Swan had to do was to say N O and that would have been the end of it.

  292. 292
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    You want to play word games.

    Ooh goody! What English word have the most consecutive double letters :?:

  293. 293
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    You wouldn’t believe him anyway. You don’t believe him when he describes the notion as absurd. Let me use synonyms for what Swan thinks of the idea. Ridiculous, silly, strange, illogical, meaningless, bizaarre, incongruous. Got it Glen? He doesn’t like the idea.

  294. 294
    BH
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m with you Vera. Here in my part of rural NSW the mob were furious with the sale of Telstra. They still are, because we probably could all be using broadband now if it had the darn thing had been kept in our hands.

    Here in my neck of the woods I can’t even use wireless – nearly 2009 and yet the dial-up is as slow as a wet week.

    What’s so precious about rural Oz having a separate fund – Rudd & Co will probably use the $2b towards broadband or something else decent for us.

    Glen – get off Swannie. At least he is an Economist – discusses, listens, takes advice from Treasury where Costello had to learn by rote whatever problem Treasury had to explain. He found it hard to grasp. Hence all the bluster, smirking and ‘blowhard’ stuff.

    But I’ve had a good laugh at Minchin trying to spin his way out of not voting this a.m. – now it seems he went for a ‘wee and cuppa’ break at 1.30 a.m.

  295. 295
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    Dio, it was a statement not an invitation but seeing you asked, what?

  296. 296
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    WOW! Even Nick Minchin joins the “THE MEDIA” conspiracy theorists!

    I regret to say that, on balance, it is the coalition’s
    position that we will not insist on these amendments.
    We know very well what the government will do if we
    vote here tonight to insist on these amendments. The
    government are so obsessed with spin. They do not
    actually make decisions; they just do the spin. They
    will assert, falsely and contemptuously—through the
    media machine that the government run—that the coalition
    has blocked these infrastructure bills

    http://aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds041208.pdf
    pp. 148 – 149
    Why is it that Liberals adopt essentially Marxist media theories, but don’t ascribe to Marx’s economic philosophy?

  297. 297
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    now it seems he went for a ‘wee and cuppa’ break at 1.30 a.m.

    Do the division bells ring in the dunny?

  298. 298
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Do the division bells ring in the dunny?

    All clocks in the parliament have division bells and lights (red / green) in them. So if they have a clock near the loo, then surely they would be audible.

  299. 299
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Who cares how a vote went in the Senate at 1:30am???

  300. 300
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    All clocks in the parliament have division bells and lights (red / green) in them. So if they have a clock near the loo, then surely they would be audible.

    Maybe he couldn’t hear them over his ‘movement’ ;-)

  301. 301
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Amigo FINNS

    Under th terms of th Armictice sought BY “G” Island ‘s representative diog , you will notice diog unambiguously agreed to Obama ( Not Hillary SOS) having reresponsibility for CC

    Diogenes #771
    Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    “Ronster
    Kyoto wouldn’t normally be a SOS job (for hillary) would it. Smith didn’t go to Bali, but Wong/Garrett did. I don’t think Condi (SOS) was there. Obi TAKES THE RAP on CC.”

    Amigo , you will now note diog trying to elude his signed Armistice treaty terms , for which under th Armistice penance for breachs may be extradition to G Island:

    Diogenes #221
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    “Ronster
    Anyway, under Ron’s agreement with me, the failure of the world to change it’s emission enough to avert global warming FALLS SQUARELY in Hillary’s (SOS) lap…..Obi can take a little BIT of the blame if he doesn’t cut US domestic use.”

    Having never been thru those Pearly Gates of Uni’s , is ‘disengenuous nuancing’ a required subbject

  302. 302
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Who cares how a vote went in the Senate at 1:30am???

    You know Glen, you may have a point? Who really cares what happens in parliament? You may also want to ponder that next time you make a big deal about Swan’s performance in parliament.

  303. 303
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    All clocks in the parliament have division bells and lights (red / green) in them. So if they have a clock near the loo, then surely they would be audible.

    They actually have bells and lights in the toilet stalls and the bells would’ve been run for a substantial amount of time.

    Who cares how a vote went in the Senate at 1:30am???

    Only a sycophant would not acknowledge what an utter shambles the Coalition was on the issue. When are they going to get their act together?

  304. 304
    BH
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Loved the bit from Minchin about the Government’s spin from its Media Machine!!

    I bet he wishes that ‘Hyacinth’ was still checking the media 24/7 and ringing Canberra 10 times a day to tell the Libs what they should be counteracting. They can’t seem to get their stories straight.

    Minchin says Rudd will waste the Nationals Telstra slushfund and David Johnson (Shadow Defence) was saying on ABC2 this a.m. that he was sure Rudd would spend it on the bush.

  305. 305
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I’ve got to hand it to Fielding for putting The Nationals right in their place on the issue:

    I suppose what tonight reinforces is this statement: when they agreed to Telstra being sold, the Nationals sold out the bush. They were sold a pup of some fund by the Liberal Party. All of a sudden now, it is gone.

  306. 306
    vera
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Who will be the first Nat to say Rudd has given the bushes $2 bill telsta sell off funds to the car dealers? lol

    The federal government has struck a $2 billion deal with the country's four major banks to provide financing for car dealers, Treasurer Wayne Swan says.

    http://news.smh.com.au/national/deal-to-support-car-dealerships-swan-20081205-6s9e.html

  307. 307
    Diogenes
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Gary

    Flooddoorroommanager
    Raccoonnookkeeper

  308. 308
    evan14
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    I have a mental image of the division bells going off while a senator is stuck on the dunny LOL
    Glen, I admire you for defending them, but they are a sorry lot!

  309. 309
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Another thing that can be noted about yesterday is that the Liberals’ attempt to start up a Senate Select Committee on the Bank Deposit Guarantee failed largely because the Liberal Party refused to make the membership of the committee balanced. Instead they wanted a rigged committee so they could make it say what they wanted it to say. A shameful waste of money.

  310. 310
    Steve K
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    307
    That cracks me up
    :-)

  311. 311
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Who cares how a vote went in the Senate at 1:30am???

    Me!

    For the record, 2 Liberals voted for the amendments, 5 voted against it (i.e., with Labor), and 30 abstained!

  312. 312
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Maybe the 30 of them were all in the dunny?

  313. 313
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Maybe the 30 of them were all in the dunny?

    There are so many lines oen could respond to that with ;-)

  314. 314
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Most of them were outside the locked doors.

    Some of them were in the chamber, but hid behind the President’s chair.

  315. 315
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Turnbull should remove Minchin as Senate leader. A very good opportunity.

  316. 316
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Dario #226

    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    “I’m trying to work out Ron’s angle on this… apparently as Labor supporters we are not allowed to disagree with the views of the almighty Rudd on ‘Immogate’. Ron, do you disagree with Rudd on any issue?”

    You ar an certainly evasive & avoid th central issue….th act

    Kevin Rudd has nothing to do with th core issue that Bitgoods photo actions itself were indecent and distasteful in any event ,….IIRRESPECTIVE of whether Kevin Rudd chose to dress him down or not AS AN MP Bitgood’s chosing to take a photo of such an ‘event’ simply breached community standards of taste Fact that you ar out of step with Society’s tastes is your problem Whilst your mate ShowsOn simply sits on a barbed wire fence on th issue petrified which way to fall

    You misunderstand that ALL that Kevin Rudd’s carpeting of Bitgood did , and then Rudd demanding Bitgood appologise to Parliament did , and then Rudd’s spokesman saying Bitgoods action was quote “offensive” did , and then Rudd demanding Bitgood appologise to th family did were collectively & publicley demonstrate HOW grossly distastefuly out of step Bitgoods actions were with community requirements & tastes You actually reprresent a insignificant minority on taste

    Actualy you initialy foolishly shot from hip against th MSN to defend a Labor MP without ‘taste’ thought , and then backed yourself into a foolish corner , probably out of step even with this site

    As I’ve said photogate is not a National key issue & will blow over newswise quick , but it and his religous coments may cause him problems in 2010 getting preselection , and I wouldn’t support him on either ground …on judgement nor standards reflecting his voters levels

    And what would points be in highlighliting policy diferenses with yous , when you and probabley your mate miss th distaste test…however Rudd agreeing to continue Schools Commission funding formula for 2009-2013 , questions over ‘oz’ CC targets vs lower likely Coppenhaggen target ageeements , leaving existing AWA’s to continue after expiry by agreement , and lack of generall National overview of Sydney/Melb cities car transport solutions vs public transport could be areas of caution to me presently

  317. 317
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Yes but Itep you know who would take over then…Eric Abetz………………

  318. 318
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Turnbull should remove Minchin as Senate leader. A very good opportunity.

    That would just make Minchin start doing the numbers for Costello.

  319. 319
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    You’ve got a good point Glen. When your other high profile options are Abetz and Coonan I suppose Minchin is not much worse. Still you have to wonder how untenable it is for leader of the party in the Senate and the House of Representatives to not publicly be on the same page.

  320. 320
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    I have always wondered by Nick hasnt tried to go to the House of Reps??

  321. 321
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Maybe the 30 of them were all in the dunny?

    If not, they are now Glen, well and truly.

  322. 322
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    SNIP: Unconstructive comment deleted – The Management.

  323. 323
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    That would just make Minchin start doing the numbers for Costello

    You don’t think he is already?

  324. 324
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Dario

    when contronted with logic exposing your foolish untenable position , your replys lacking any substnse ar not even turnbull quality….more Brenda’s

  325. 325
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    There is a deeper politcal message in todays LCP Senate implosion than just trunbull’s leadership & LCP’s lack of tactics

    Nats hav progressively sold out rural Australia , and in doing so hav progrssively signed there own death warant Nats Senate opposition is like a cry from past….too little too late for rural Australia Fortunateley for Labor longterm Nats don’t understand how to turn priovincial towns into rurual vs city , and given up demographic fight….ala pineaple party in Q’ld….that will leave 2 mainstream CITY orientated Partys fighting for rural votes…much better for Labor than fighting a rural only Party , not clever but Labor stategists ar smiling

  326. 326
    Dario
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    when contronted with logic exposing your foolish untenable position , your replys lacking any substnse ar not even turnbull quality….more Brenda’s

    Ron, as usual you are nothing but hot air. Your position is that ‘Rudd said so’ so it must be correct, which is totally laughable. Looks like I am going to have to ignore you in the Oz forum as well as the US one from now on. So long.

  327. 327
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Dario , you ar a deceitful , although L word is more accurate My posts clearly stated I (not Rudd) thought Bitgood’s actions were indecent and distasteful and that they breached community offensive levels I then stated Rudds actions simply proved HOW grossly far Bitgood’s actions were out of step with those community standards

    Your deceitful posts trying cmoflage your indefensible position of defending this indecent Bitgood’s actions simply makes you not only more foolish by each post you make , but exposes your appalling levels of what is distasteful

  328. 328
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    And any blogger reading my #316 can see that

  329. 329
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Describe in detail what you mean by “community offensive levels” and “community standards”.

    Why should it concern us that you find some of Dario’s comments “distasteful”? I provided you with several links to “distasteful” photographs last night that are extremely famous. Your notion that there are self evident standards that all photos should be measured against is absurd unless you can say what those standards are, and why everyone should be forced to comply with them.

  330. 330
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Calm down, Ron.

  331. 331
    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Just to stick my bib in on the photo business…

    Ron, I think you’re way out of line, setting yourself up as the moral arbiter of what is good and decent. You seem to be determined to keep haranguing us about your fundamental, but alas (for you) totally subjective point and personal opinion. There isno way you can argue the truth or otherwise of your point so you have resorted to repetitious restatement of it until everyone gets sick of reading and responding to your posts and goes away. The “Last Man Standing” ploy only achieves the result of you making yourself look overly dogmatic and stubborn.

    You have to accept that others do not share your opinion. Endless restatement of it does not convince anyone. You seem convinced yourself, and that’s your business. But until you can bring some evidence to bear that Bidgood’s actions were, by normals standards, reprehensible, your arguments will fall on deaf ears.

  332. 332
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Greetings bludgers

    On the week in Parliament: Glen, to quote the late great Fred Daly, your lot couldn’t go three rounds with a revolving door at present. They are in a state of deep, deep frustration and depression. This is a bit strange, because the Labor government is obviously heading for a very rough year, and Turnbull’s personal standing with the electorate is quite high for an oppositiion leader up against a phenominally popular PM. But within the building they are a complete shambles. When was the last time a party leader (Minchin) walked out of the chamber in disgust rather than bvote to support his own party’s position, yet neither resigned not got sacked. It was quite quite strorders (as Jessica Mitford would have said).

    Canada: This circumstance is not at all like 1975, because where Whitlam always had a majority in the lower house, Harper does not, and never has had. It is only two months since the electorate declined to give him a majority. Now a majority of MPs have signed a declaration of intent to vote him out. In these circumstances, the GG has no obligation to follow his advice. The correct course for her is to tell him to go and face Parliament. If he requests a dissolution she should decline it.

  333. 333
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    As much as we attack Bidgood, the sad thing is that there are Australians who share his views….

  334. 334
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Adam on Canada…

    Firstly let me make you aware of some quotes….

    Mr. Layton on Mr. Dion: “I urge Canadians to also defeat Mr. Harper’s best friend over the past year or so in Parliament – Stéphane Dion.

    Mr. Layton on Mr. Dion: “When it comes to the environment, I do have a few words for my Liberal colleague [Mr. Dion], and that is that his carbon tax proposal is wrong, that it won’t work, and that he knows it.’’

    Mr. Dion on Mr. Layton: “Mr. Layton does not understand the economy. I cannot think that Canadians will give their support to a man who will kill jobs everywhere in the country in raising the corporate tax … If you were worried about your savings, your pension, your mortgages, if you are worried about your jobs, then think twice before voting for Jack Layton.”

    Mr. Dion on Mr. Layton: “The NDP can promise you the moon. But they are trying to buy your vote with Monopoly money. They want to pay for all their promises by increasing the burden on our economy. Jack Layton’s old-fashioned socialist mentality is as backward as Stephen Harper’s conservative ideology … I have no lessons to learn from Stephen Harper or Jack Layton about how to balance a budget.”

    Mr. Duceppe after Mr. Dion asked that a question on the economic crisis be repeated three times during an interview with an English-speaking television reporter: “The real question is that I think [Mr. Dion] understood the question. The real problem wasn’t the language, it was the substance. He had nothing to say.”

    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/12/02/what-the-coalition-leaders-really-think-of-their-new-partners.aspx

    In light of this Adam how can Jean honestly allow these groups to Govern…most likely she will call another election in January if Dion keeps up this Coalition…

    Also the Bloc have come out and say that the Coalition is better for their goals of sovereignty in Quebec…how can Dion get a mandate to govern from the Bloc and not from the people of Canada…he never said he’d form a Coalition with those trying to break up the country and now he wants them to have veto power over the Budget???

    Jean made the right choice.

  335. 335
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    All the GG needs to know if there’s a no-confidence vote is whether there’s another government that can be formed that has the confidence of the House of Commons.

    It doesn’t require her to look at the past comments of party leaders. That’s completely irrelevant.

  336. 336
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Glen – what Ltep said.

  337. 337
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Itep…it goes to the fact these Political Party’s cannot get along despite what they say in their Agreement…Plus Itep Dion doesnt have a mandate to form a Government with the NDP and Bloc when in the last election he said he would do no such thing…In Canada there is a tradition that all governments must face the people and hence if Jean does sack Harper she should then call another election…

  338. 338
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    I would have thought the GG would want to see if a government could be formed before sending the country to an election again. What excuse is Harper going to use. “I’ve lost the confidence of the house?” He hasn’t unless he tests it and even then the opposition should be invited to try and form a government surely.
    As for the quotes Glen, times and circumstances change.

  339. 339
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Yes but what none of you can retort is that Dion never got a mandate to form an alliance with the Sepratists or the NDP hence he would need to face an election…the people didnt vote for that…they voted for an increased Harper Minority not for Dion as PM, Layton as Finance Minister and Duceppe having a say on everything…

    Jean will most likely call a poll.

  340. 340
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    In Canada there is a tradition that all governments must face the people

    The people elected the members of Parliament who will make up the Coalition government if that goes ahead. Whether they have a ‘mandate’ or not is of no relevance to the GG.

  341. 341
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Ben Raue at The Tally Room has a good post on the Canadian crisis-ette, in which he proposes reforms to the appointment of prime ministers (citing the practice in the Australian Capital Territory), the scheduling of parliament and the timing of elections. I am a little more sympathetic than Raue to Jean’s decision, on account of the Liberals’ evident state of disarray – although I can buy the idea that it’s not the Governor-General’s role to make such judgements.

  342. 342
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Itep they didnt vote for a Dion, Layton Duceppe mish mash Government…if Dion wanted that he ought to have run on it in the last election he didnt and hence he has no mandate to form such a government without an election.

  343. 343
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    337 – If you use your logic Glen the Tories should remain in government no matter what they do because the opposition said during an election campaign they wouldn’t get together. I bet when they said that they didn’t expect Harper to be doing what he is doing to disturb them so much as to bring them together.
    By the way, did Harper have a mandate to do those things the opposition finds so offensive?

  344. 344
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Glen, do you think the WA Governor looked at comments of Colin Barnett and Brendon Grylls before accepting their Government?

    Of course not. That’s completely irrelevant. What’s relevant is that they have the confidence of the lower house of Parliament.

    Similarly in NZ when Helen Clark won her last term the GG didn’t need to measure up statements by party leaders or whether Clark had won a mandate. All that is completely irrelevant.

  345. 345
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    If they want to bring Harper down they should do so and have another election called as is the practice not try to get into bed with a political party who would gladly love to break up the country….

    Itep they are completely different circumstances…they occured at the time of an election not 7 weeks after a new government was sworn in!

  346. 346
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Glen that is completely irrelevant as well. People voted to send representatives to Parliament who happened to be members of parties. What those parties choose to do after the election is up to them.

    The people did not elect a majority government so in the absence of that the Government will be whoever manages to demonstrate they have majority support in the House of Commons.

    It’s just the way our parliamentary system works.

  347. 347
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    344 – Correct ltep. All the GG requires is a majority group of MP’s pledging to work together to form a government.

  348. 348
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    People voted against Dion forming a Government if they had wanted him PM they wouldnt have taken the Liberal Party to its worst result since Confederation and just 77 seats!!!!!!!!

    They wanted a strengthened Harper Minority Government and its only because of the Bloc Harper didnt get a majority!

    Not if they havent a mandate for it…

  349. 349
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Glen, if the Nats in WA decided to side with Labor now, would WA have to go to a new election?

  350. 350
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    But they didn’t want a Harper majority government Glen. In fact more people voted against Harper than voted for him.

  351. 351
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Well I’m not going to continue arguing over this. A waste of time.

    I like this quote:

    Meanwhile, a Nationals backbencher says he is deeply disappointed that the Senate has passed a bill to fold a regional communications fund into the Government's nation building funds.

    Nationals Whip Paul Neville says the Coalition should not have allowed the bills to pass.

    "I just think it was an error of judgment, not by Malcolm Turnbull or anyone else," he said.

    "I just think it was an error of judgment on the part of the Coalition, I think we should have fought and defended that to the last day."

    Surely that makes no sense? Surely someone owns responsibility for the direction of the Coalition and that person is Malcolm Turnbull.

  352. 352
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Glen, in constitutional terms, voters don’t “vote for a government” at all. They vote for their local MP. It is then up to those MPs to form a government and support it. If 30 Labor MPs defected to the Liberal Party tomorrow, Turnbull would quite legitimately become PM without another election. The voters didn’t elect a Labor government in 1940, but they got one in 1941 when the two independents who held the balance of power changed sides. There are many similar examples in the history of Westminster parliaments. The duty of the GG in this situation is clear: it is to say to Harper: Can you form a government with the support of the majority of the Commons? If the answer is No, her duty is then to send for Dion and ask him the same question. If his answer is Yes, then her duty is to commission him. This is a well established matter of constitutional practice in Westminster systems. You won’t be able to attack it with shallow rhetorical points such as you make above.

  353. 353
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    So a combined oppostion vote is the will of the people.

  354. 354
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    352 Adam in Canberra – spot on.

  355. 355
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    The GG is by the way also entitled to send for the leaders of the other parties or independents and ask them for guarantees that they will provide stable government. This was done in Canberra in 1941, in Tas when the Field government was formed, and in Vic in 1999 when the three independents undertook to support Bracks.

  356. 356
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    The Nats didnt rule out anything though so they might not have too.

    But Dion, Layton and Duceppe all ruled it out so they’d require a mandate from the people.

    Dion needs a mandate from Canadians not the Sepratists.

  357. 357
    Centre
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    The bookies are paying out on the opposition leader at the next election. I’ve still got my betting ticket on Cossie and I won’t be throwing it out just yet.

    Apparently Cossie’s press secretary reckons Tip didn’t have the killer instinct to challenge Howard!. That’s putting mildly. Cossie was too weak, but he is all they have got at the moment.

    Speaking of opposition leaders, it’s nonesense to believe that Labor kept losing elections because they couldn’t find someone reasonable enough for the job. How does Beazley look now given the time he spent in opposition and his narrow defeats in unwinnable elections, and especially after blokes like Downer, Crean, Latham, and more importantly, Brenda and Turnbull? Bit like Swan really, throw enough mud and it sticks!

  358. 358
    Gary Bruce
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Glen, Adam is right. All of your moralising on this means nothing. The rules are the rules and with that that is my last word on this.

  359. 359
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    I am not moralising Gary…there is such a thing as a democratic mandate!

    Dion is getting his ‘mandate’ from the Bloc rather than the people because he knows he would lose!

  360. 360
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Dion is getting his ‘mandate’ from the Bloc rather than the people because he knows he would lose!

    Every single government in the history of Westminster, besides those appointed directly by the head of state (eg. Fraser) get their mandate from parliament. We don’t directly elect a government.

  361. 361
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Spoken like a true Whitlamite, Glen. I must profess myself surprised that you have proved so hostile to Edmund Burke’s view on the role of representatives.

  362. 362
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    This is a different case all together William, it is like one of our major political parties here saying after an election in which they promise never to form a Coalition with another party and then after they lose say they will govern with a party who wants to break Victoria away from Australia, it is madness and who in their right minds would vote for such a government??

    Anyway if the Fibs, Socialists and Frenchies form a Coalition it is the people of Canada who will suffer not the Tories they’ll win a majority government whenever there is another poll 2011??

  363. 363
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Bushfire Bill
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    “Just to stick my bib in on the photo business…
    Ron, I think you’re way out of line”

    No , you ar way out out of line You set yourself up as an arbitrator YOURSELF of what is right and wrong by yourself foolishly defending Bitgood , you decided a standard by your own post …. So don’t be santimonious with me

    I gave a diferent opinion that obviously embarasses you , tough seeing you wont find many public figures , Politicans or otherwise who agree with your foolish suport of Bitgood’s distasteful act

  364. 364
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    SNIP: No abuse, please – The Management.

  365. 365
    It's Time
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    it is like one of our major political parties here saying after an election in which they promise never to form a Coalition with another party

    So Glen believes in promises made by political parties. I suppose that explains his following of John Howard.

    A “mandate” is anything which the majority of elected representatives vote for in the parliament. Everything else is window dressing.

  366. 366
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    SNIP: Thank you, Adam – The Management.

  367. 367
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    SNIP: Thanks also, Gusface – The Management.

  368. 368
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    geez, i try to be considerate and that’s what I get…

  369. 369
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    lol

  370. 370
    It's Time
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Adam

    Don’t be disingenuous. obviously from Glen’s general knowledge and literacy he is not an eight year old. The maturity of his arguments and assertions are up to each person to judge.

  371. 371
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Adam i am not saying what you are saying is wrong…you are constitutionally right in respects to the duty of a Governor-General…

    But now that Parliament is prorogued Harper has already recieved tacit support from Dion on the budget if he works with him, which he most likely will.

    Id far rather the Tories work with the Liberals than the Bloc or NDP.

  372. 372
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    I come back and see snips

    Well when I gav my original post it was a personal opinion , which i believed reflected societys views of what MP’s should and should not do

    AT THAT stage , I was actualy unaware Rudd had dressed down th guy , notr that his spokesman had said th actions were quote “offensice” nor that rudd has demanded bitgood write an appology to th family , nor would I hav cared either way had I hav known

    However Rudd’s strong & public displinary actions (to th embarassement of many here) indicate HOW bad Bitgoods actions were

    I’m just waiting for th defenders of bitgood to hav th gumption to actualy say Rudd is wrong in his public carpeting of Bitgood

  373. 373
    Don Morris
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    I was interested in your remarks on the current situation in Ottawa, and I see that the Governor-General has now accepted the Prime Minister’s advice that Parliament be prorogued until January.

    Apart from the Byng-King incident, well known to Canadian constitutional scholars, there are two Tasmanian parallels which may be relevant as they involve the exercise of the Vice-Regal discretionary powers in situations where a Premier appeared to have lost the confidence of the House.

    1981 – Tasmania

    In November 1981 the then Premier, Doug Lowe, was deposed within his own party and replaced by a colleague, Harry Holgate, who was duly commissioned as Premier. Lowe quit the ALP and moved to the cross-bench as an Independent. This left the Government with a majority on the floor of one.

    A week later, the then Government Whip, Mary Willey, also quit the ALP and moved to the cross-bench as a gesture of support for Lowe. Her decision put the Holgate Government into a minority.

    The Premier sought a prorogation from the Queen’s representative, the State Governor, Sir Stanley Burbury. He was granted a prorogation from November until March the following year. It later was revealed that he initially sought a prorogation for a longer period, but the Governor said he was only prepared to grant four months, to enable the Premier to consolidate his government, after which he would have to face the House.

    During the recess it became clear the government would be defeated when the House resumed. Petitions were sent to the Governor asking him to recall the House. The Governor responded in a statement that governments are determined in the Lower House, they are not determined by “counting numbers outside the House”. In this the Governor, who was a former Chief Justice of the State, acted with complete constitutional propriety.

    In the event, when the House resumed in March 1982, a motion of no confidence was the first business moved and, after debate, the government was defeated and the Premier asked the Governor to dissolve the House. The government was resoundingly defeated at the polls.

    1989 – Tasmania

    In 1989 the then Liberal Premier, Robin Gray, went to an election. The result was, in a 35-Member House, 17 Liberals were returned, 13 ALP and 5 grouped independents, called Green Independents. Before the House resumed, the ALP Opposition Leader, Michael Field, and the 5 Green Independents signed an ‘Accord’ wherein the 5 agreed to support the ALP in votes of no confidence and supply, but reserved their rights on other matters.

    The Premier sought legal advice that he was entitled to request another election, given that the prospect of such an ‘Accord’ had not been canvassed before the election. The ALP and the Greens also sought competing legal advice. This was all provided to the State Governor, General Sir Phillip Bennett. The Governor himself sought independent legal advice, with the permission of the Premier, from the Solicitor-General and from others.

    Whilst Gray desperately wanted another poll, he knew that the Governor was faced with the situation where the House had not even met after the election and, on the face of it, he could see that a viable government could be found from the just elected Members. The Governor interviewed both the Premier and the Opposition Leader, and then separately saw each of the Green Independents to test for himself that an alternative government had a prospect of existing for at least some period of time.

    In the event, Gray did not demand an election, which avoided a constitutional crisis. The Governor did, however, repudiate suggestions that the Premier had a duty to resign before the House met and accepted the Premier’s advice that he was entitled to test his government’s support on the floor of the House. In the event, a vote of no confidence was passed when the House met, Gray resigned and Field was commissioned as Premier.

    The new government functioned for 20 months after which Field sought another election, having found the ‘Accord’ totally constraining. The minority government was resoundingly defeated at the election.

  374. 374
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    glen
    if it is any consolation I agree (to an extent) with what you are saying.

    tho canada is a very different animal and the system has the potential to do an Italy

    many forget quebec and what a powderkeg it could become.

  375. 375
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Well I must say I think the GG was wrong to grant a prorogation to a minority PM whose sole motivation was to avoid defeat in a confidence motion. There are probably precedents for it, but she would have been well within her rights to refuse.

  376. 376
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    If Harper really was as mean and tricky as the Left say he is, he could just as easily sack Jean now that she has prorogued and nominate a GG who would call another election if Dion tried to bring a motion of no confidence against him…that would be just evil lol!

  377. 377
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see how Bidgood’s actions were anything worse than stupid. Who has been harmed? What law has been broken? What parliamentary convention has been violated?

  378. 378
    Muskiemp
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    There is nothing wrong with what Bitgood did in taking a photo of a newsworthy event, as I previousley said the protester would have wanted someone to take a photo of the insident, for the publicity.Instead it became a political point scoring event and the protester missed getting his point to the Government.

  379. 379
    redwombat
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    Did the “spokesman” really say that?????

  380. 380
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    the video of him talking about the end of days was a tad freaky.Dont let this man near the education ministry

    the real issue is how he became a member of the labor gvt??????
    (though he is from FNQ so that explains a bit)

  381. 381
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    He is English…or at least was.

  382. 382
    The Finnigans
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    They dont like and trust their politicians in India:

    http://www.outlookindia.com/images/mumbai_protest_20081204.jpg

    Btw Amigo Ronnie, are they tried to bully you?

  383. 383
    juliem
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    The author is a US based writer, thus the “down here” reference …..

    So, as bad as it may seem down here--with every investment bank on earth and the Big 3 to boot busking for change in the halls of Congress--at least the demoralized Republican Party still shows up for session. Canadian conservatives, on the other hand...they've have gone prorogue.

    http://tinyurl.com/5vye6u

  384. 384
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    What Bidgood did was stupid, and no more. The punishment for stupidity is to be yelled at by the PM, which is what happened.

    His religious views are obviously pretty strange, but he is not alone in that in federal Parliament (ask Peter Slipper). We have no religious test either to be an ALP candidate or an MP. It might be pointed out that Dawson had a 10% majority in 2007 and no-one expected him to win when he was preselected. He got a 13% swing so obviously people in Dawson like him. I’m not going to argue with them.

  385. 385
    Roxanna
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Adam – kudos to you for quoting Jessica Mitford.

    And whoever suggested that Eric Abetz should be considered for anything more influential should be advised that there are those of us in Tasmania who would fight tooth and nail (and even donate money) to prevent that. He hasn’t been called the most hated man in Tasmania for nothing.

  386. 386
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I think they are suffering from buyers remorse lol!
    Same as the good people of the Division of Robertson.

  387. 387
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Well Glen we will see about that in 2010 – or in 2009 if you want to reject Fair Work and give us a DD.

  388. 388
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    the ‘photo incident’ was piffle no more.

    so basically a drovers dog could win dawson then eh?

    or is bidgood that attuned to his electorate-methinks i’d go with the dog theory

  389. 389
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    glen
    leave belinda off.

    Im talking religious nutters here,not self assured women that scare the fibs.

  390. 390
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Roxanna I’m not surprised! Abetz is truly awful.

  391. 391
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    You cannot expect to keep seats that swung so heavily like that, some will come back, probably not enough to change Government though…

    BTW if Fair Work Australia is bad, we’ll give our two bobs worth.

  392. 392
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

    Oh come on I like Eric :) whats not to love, his nasally voice, his upity demeaner…and he’s a tasmanian to boot!

  393. 393
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Not to mention his charming relatives
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Abetz

  394. 394
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    adam
    apologies,after rereading 384, I see that he actually got a 13% swing to him.
    still I think he is too scary. :(

    hmmmm we are a weird mob!

  395. 395
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Glen you may remember Bruce Goodluck, one of the stupidest men ever elected to Parliament, who won Franklin with a gigantic swing in 1975 and held it until he retired in 1993. He was phenominally popular locally, despite hardly being capable of uttering two sentences in a row.

  396. 396
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Why was Don Morris’s comment yellow? Is he a new moderator?

    Is Bill Bowe outsourcing SNIP duties?

  397. 397
    Ron
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    “Btw Amigo Ronnie, are they tried to bully you?”

    No mate , they’re just playing pedantics I’d called it indecent & distasteful Th PM’s office called it quote “offensive” , thats clearly a description of taste standards (distaste) that ar below quality standards So people hear play word games

    Whilst th act was also stupid as well doesn’t change th “offencive” quote……..and furthermore Bitgoods letter of appology to th family (guaranteed to be vetted by th PM’s office) wll be with th taste /offensive flavouur as well , rather than just admitting he was stupid

    Suspect my poppularity continues to soar

  398. 398
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Also is Don Morris the failed Liberal Senate candidate from 2007?

  399. 399
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    To whom and in what way was Bidgood’s behaviour offensive, Ron?

  400. 400
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Adam it is a bit harsh to criticise him based on his relatives…

  401. 401
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Did I criticise him?

  402. 402
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Don Morris emailed that to me and I asked him if I could put it up as a comment. I did this under my own account and then changed the name and email address, which evidently doesn’t make the yellow background change.

  403. 403
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    But i dont see why you had to bring it up?

  404. 404
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Can I offer myself as a potential moderator? I have the following experiences:

    - I know a good flame war when I see one
    - I can understand most parts of most of Ron’s posts
    - I rarely take Glen’s posts seriously
    - I’m not a failed Senate candidate
    - I forgive and forget all those that attack me
    - I have a solid knowledge of parliamentary standing orders

  405. 405
    Oz
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    I’m indignant that this wasn’t put to a vote.

  406. 406
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Don Morris emailed that to me and I asked him if I could put it up as a comment. I did this under my own account and then changed the name and email address, which evidently doesn’t make the yellow background change.

    Oh, I guess that ends my moderating career before it started.

  407. 407
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    oz
    you missed it

  408. 408
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Because it’s of historical interest. You are free to point out that I am descended from Charlemagne and William the Conqueror anytime you like.

  409. 409
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Are you?

  410. 410
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    http://www.adam-carr.net/charlemagne.html
    http://www.adam-carr.net/familytree3.txt

  411. 411
    It's Time
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Glen

    Have you not heard of the advantage of incumbency? A lot of those seats won by Labor in 2007 are going to be a lot harder for coalition candidates to win back than first appears. The Labor incumbents will have a higher profile in their electorates than prior to 2007 and those generous postal and stationery allowances to boot. And how many defeated coalition members from 2007 are going to run in the next election? Their personal followings are not necessarily going to transfer to a different coalition candidate.

  412. 412
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Virtually the whole European population of the world is descended from Charlemagne and William the Conqueror. I am only unusual in being able to document it, thanks to my great-grandfather, who was a tireless genealogist.

  413. 413
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Your Dukeship

    Very Impressive…

  414. 414
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    And how many defeated coalition members from 2007 are going to run in the next election?

    I hope Kellys, Jackie and Dee-Ann run.

    That would be HILARIOUS!

  415. 415
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Quite correct but by the same token some marginal Liberal Seats should be more easily held this time around…it would be funny if we ran a real campaign in Bennelong to oust Maxine i would laugh if she lost.

  416. 416
    Gusface
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    adam
    actually im descended from an ape but if you are a recent arrival to our fair planet , I say welcome from a people who go back 3+ million years.

  417. 417
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    And whoever suggested that Eric Abetz should be considered for anything more influential should be advised that there are those of us in Tasmania who would fight tooth and nail (and even donate money) to prevent that. He hasn’t been called the most hated man in Tasmania for nothing.

    And of course his Brother is now in the WA Parliament :-)

    http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament%5CMemblist.nsf/WAllMembersFlat/Abetz,+Peter?opendocument

    and this, obviously written before the writer knew the outcome of the Election.

    http://tasmanianpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/08/abetzs-pitch-for-family-franchise.html

  418. 418
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Bennelong has been a Labor-inclined seat for some time. Now that Howard is gone Labor will keep it unless there is a real crash. The seats at real risk in NSW will be Page, Eden-Monaro (country seats are always at risk), Macquarie if Debus retires, Robertson and Dobell. But of course there is still a redistribution to come…

  419. 419
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Well Gusface we are all descended from trilobites but it’s not something I boast about.

  420. 420
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Why would Debus retire he only just got here?

  421. 421
    It's Time
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Quite correct but by the same token some marginal Liberal Seats should be more easily held this time around

    And why would that be? Apart from wishful thinking. Will a coalition led by Turnbull (or Costello or Hockey or Abbott or Bishop or Nelson or…) be more popular in the remaining coalition electorates than Howard?

  422. 422
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    I hope so :)

  423. 423
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Because he’s 65?

  424. 424
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Why did he win pre-selection?

  425. 425
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Because he’s very popular in the Blue Mountains. He got whopping swings in the Blue Mountains towns. But he was intending to quit politics and had to be talked into it. I don’t know if he will feel like running again. I hope he does, but he will be 70 by the end of the next parliament. He will also need dispensation from party rules to run again.

  426. 426
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Really??

    You cannot be over 70 and be a Labor MP???

    Well no wonder Tuckey is a Liberal lol!

  427. 427
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    In Victoria the rule is that you cannot be preselected if you will turn 65 during that term. I don’t know what the NSW rule is. But George Seitz, the longest-serving Victorian state MP, who is 67, simply ignored the rule at the 2006 election and no-one dared challenge him. He argued, and he is probably right, that the rule would be found to be illegal if it were taken to court.

  428. 428
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Tuckey is a good example of why such a rule is a good idea.

  429. 429
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    I think Tuckey is an exceptional case though.

    Iron Bar isnt your average Senior Cit.

  430. 430
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    We might be related. I’m a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce of Scotland who came across with William in 1066.

    His original name was Roberte de Bruise and came from Normandy. There were 7 Robert the Bruce’s, king of Scotland. The eldest son was always named Robert. My mothers father was Robert Bruce and his eldest son was also Robert.

    Unfortunately he broke the tradition and named his eldest son Geoffrey.

  431. 431
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Well below average IMHO.

  432. 432
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    I would lock Iron Bar, Gillard and Katter in a Room and lock the door.

  433. 433
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    What powers does Tuckey have in the WA Liberal Party?

  434. 434
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    An iron bar?

  435. 435
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Undoubtedly are all related – the trick is to document it. Can you find a table of Robert’s descendants? There is bound to be one online somewhere.

    If you’re a DIRECT descendant of Robert the Bruce why aren’t you King of Scots?

  436. 436
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Maybe he’s a Scottish Nationalist?

  437. 437
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    He only used his iron bar (actually it was a piece of iron cable) on defenceless Aboriginals. These days he’s just a silly old man, but don’t forget what a truly loathsome creature he really is.

  438. 438
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    The ALP have their own bad eggs too Adam.

  439. 439
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    It would have to be King Gregory. He’d probably end up in the tower.

  440. 440
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Weirdest division ever:

    AYES
    Arbib, M.V. (LABOR)
    Bilyk, C.L. (LABOR)
    Brandis, G.H. (LIBERAL)
    Brown, B.J. (GREEN)
    Brown, C.L. (LABOR)
    Cameron, D.N. (LABOR)
    Carr, K.J. (LABOR)
    Collins, J. (LABOR)
    Coonan, H.L. (LIBERAL)
    Crossin, P.M. (LABOR)
    Evans, C.V. (LABOR)
    Farrell, D.E. (LABOR)
    Faulkner, J.P. (LABOR)
    Forshaw, M.G. (LABOR)
    Furner, M.L. (LABOR)
    Hanson-Young, S.C. (GREEN)
    Hogg, J.J. (LABOR)
    Hurley, A. (LABOR)
    Hutchins, S.P. (LABOR)
    Johnston, D. (LIBERAL)
    Ludlam, S. (GREEN)
    Lundy, K.A. (LABOR)
    Marshall, G. (LABOR)
    McEwen, A. (LABOR)
    McLucas, J.E. (LABOR)
    Milne, C. (GREEN)
    Moore, C. (LABOR)
    Pratt, L.C. (LABOR)
    Ronaldson, M. (LIBERAL)
    Sherry, N.J. (LABOR)
    Siewert, R. (GREEN)
    Stephens, U. (LABOR)
    Sterle, G. (LABOR)
    Troeth, J.M. (LIBERAL)
    Wortley, D. (LABOR)

    NOES
    Boswell, R.L.D. (NAT)
    Eggleston, A. (LIBERAL)
    Ferguson, A.B. (LIBERAL)
    Fielding, S. (FAMILY FIRST)
    Joyce, B. (NAT)
    Nash, F. (NAT)
    Williams, J.R. (NAT)
    Xenophon, N. (INDEPENDENT)

    I wish we had MORE voting chaos in our parliament! I think we would get better legislation if EVERY Senate vote was a conscience vote.

    Oh, and let me guess, the Liberals that voted with Labor all voted for Turnbull as leader?

  441. 441
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Labor has endorsed any candidates in recent years with criminal convictions for beating a defenceless man with an iron cable while he lay on the ground. (And who is still proud if it.)

  442. 442
    Centre
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Is this the beginning of the end of Turnbull’s leadership?

  443. 443
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Maybe he’s a Scottish Nationalist?

    Nah, I only know Advance Australia Fair. Used to know G*d Save the “Queen” which wouldn’t go over too well in Scotland.

    Some of Adam’s friends would probably like the song though. And please, just a joke.

  444. 444
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Tuckey has the power to hold his seat from the Nationals.

  445. 445
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    It would be, except that the alternatives are Bishop (groan), Abbott (groan) and Costello (giggle). If they had any brains they’d have moved Minchin to the Reps last year.

  446. 446
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Is this the beginning of the end of Turnbull’s leadership?

    No, that is known as “September 16th”.

  447. 447
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    So if Tuckey left the Liberals would lose the seat?

  448. 448
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Adam
    No you are right.

    Tuckey is in a league of his own but the ALP have some nasty people in their ranks…

  449. 449
    ltep
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    They could’ve moved Minchin to the reps through the Mayo by-election.

  450. 450
    scorpio
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Is this the beginning of the end of Turnbull’s leadership?

    No, I think that was the first day he picked up the poisoned chalice.

    We could very well be for a repeat of the 1980’s.

  451. 451
    Glen
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Minchin as leader….him doing a Gorton???

  452. 452
    ShowsOn
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    They could’ve moved Minchin to the reps through the Mayo by-election.

    What for? The average Joe has no idea who he is.

    He was hopeless as finance minister, he never found any savings.

  453. 453
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    http://www.adam-carr.net/mainphotofolder/familyhistory/pic2.jpg
    Hoots mon, this is my great-great uncle, after whom I am named.

  454. 454
    Frank Calabrese
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Hoots mon, this is my great-great uncle, after whom I am named.

    Speaking of Hoots Mon :-)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoots_Mon

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mfxWY_NxS0c

  455. 455
    redwombat
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    needs a wax job :-)

  456. 456
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    We’ll have no Calabrians making fun of the Scots, thankee kindly. I know plenty of mafia jokes.

  457. 457
    Centre
    Posted Friday, December 5, 2008 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    If Abbott became leader, the Labor Party should not hope for any more leadership changes. Victory would be guaranteed. They should even start to praise the bloke lol.

  458. 458