The first Newspoll survey after the end-of-year break shows the Coalition recovering to 54-46 after the shock 59-41 result of December 9. The Australian spruiks this as the Coalition clawing back support, but a more likely explanation is that the previous poll was a rogue. Kevin Rudd’s lead as preferred prime minister is down from 66-19 to 60-22.
UPDATE: Graphic here. Rudd’s approval is down seven points to 63 per cent; Turnbull’s is down two to 45 per cent, his weakest result to date.
Elsewhere:
• Essential Research’s weekly survey has produced a status quo 59-41 result, along with a 56-20 preferred prime minister lead for Kevin Rudd that marks little shift from the previous time the question was asked in late November. Also featured are questions on expectations of the year ahead economically and for the Barack Obama presidency. Most interestingly, respondents were also asked to name their favourite prime minister since World War II, which produced a win for John Howard on 28 per cent. This is largely because those supporting Liberals (45 per cent of the total) showed no interest for contenders other than Howard and Bob Menzies (11 per cent), whereas the Labor loyalist vote was split between Kevin Rudd (20 per cent), Bob Hawke (12 per cent), Gough Whitlam (9 per cent) and Paul Keating (8 per cent).
• Former Tasmanian Tourism Minister Paula Wreidt has retired from politics, creating a vacancy in the electorate of Franklin that will be filled by a countback on February 2. This provides a clear entry to parliament for Daniel Hulme, the only remaining unelected Labor candidate from the 2006 election. My election guide entry tells me Hulme was an “Australian Taxation Office worker and former Young Labor president described by Sue Neales of The Mercury as a ‘right-wing pro-development campaigner’”. Hulme was the last man standing after Paul Lennon’s exit in the middle of last year resulted in the election of Ross Butler – who, according to Peter Tucker at Tasmanian Politics, has raised eyebrows with his performance. If Hulme declines to nominate, or if any further Labor vacancies arise in Franklin before the next election, we might see the unprecedented activation of the clause which would allow Labor to initiate a by-election rather than have the seat go to another party. Still more from Peter Tucker.
• More casual vacancy news: the last remaining Australian Democrats MP, South Australia’s Sandra Kanck, has been replaced following her retirement from her upper house seat by David Winderlich. More from Andrew Bartlett.
• The NSW Nationals have intriguingly announced they will preselect a candidate for a yet-to-be-determined winnable seat at the 2011 state election by conducting an American-style primary, open to all voters enrolled in the electorate. Peter van Onselen notes in The Australian that “parties in countries such as Britain and Italy have increasingly embraced primary contests, more often than not with electoral success to follow”. The most likely electorates for the trial are said to be Dubbo, Port Macquarie and Tamworth, each traditionally Nationals seats currently held by independents.
• Counting continues in South Australia’s Frome by-election, on which I have written an overview in today’s Crikey. Read about and comment on the progress of the count in the post below.
850 Comments
Well at least it’s not a record low for Rudd… had a few of these last year.
Ze narrowing?
statistical noise?
end of the honeymoon?
MOE?
Mo’s bar?
(personally I go for Mo’s)
“In the wake of Access Economics’ forecast yesterday that the federal budget was “buggered” (please link to ryan yarn in monday’s paper), Mr Turnbull said a budget deficit should be a last resort.”
HAHAHA, whoops, perhaps they were so excited to publish it they forgot to properly edit it! At least they call it for what it is, a yarn, and a misquoted taken out of context yarn at that.
And now buggered has been correctly linked.
They’ve fixed that one pretty quick, Bob.
diog
Posted Monday, January 19, 2009 at 9:14 pm
“Ron I know you can’t divorce a person from their politics but if you could, GWB would probably be quite fun to be around. He’s witty and quite charming in a buffoonish sort of way …….so I’m not indiscriminately magnanimous.”
Diog (later)
“I just find Bush and Abbott likeable. Perhaps I need therapy”
diog , i wasn’t with you at all ….until those last 4 words “Perhaps I need therapy”
You were coming along quite well actualy , but GWB likability is a big relapse……..into a sort of intelectualism fashionable fairness , but don’t let those fairy floss intelectuals cloud your intelegentsia logics And thanks for your info on that WW2 resistanse fighter I reely admire people like that , and so how come Howard gets a medal of freeedom & yet i asume your guy didn’t
So back to the same 54-46 2PP we last saw on 26 October 2008. There’s no doubt the last Newspoll was a standout rogue and this one seems to be a better fit with the basic scheme of things.
Something for a Tory to cheer about an 8 point deficit instead of an 18 point deficit, each are horrible….
20% for Rudd the greatest labor prime minister since WW2 youch
The last seven Newspolls have gone like this:
20-Sep-08: 55: 45
11-Oct-08: 55: 45
26-Oct-08: 54: 46
09-Nov-08: 55: 45
23-Nov-08: 55: 45
07-Dec-08: 59: 41
19-Jan-09: 54: 46
Ron,
I suspect GWB would be a much better bloke to have a beer with than most political leaders … which probably sums up his problem as a leader.
steve,
Agree with your summation – in this early stage of the economic downturn, Rudd is effortlessly holding Turnbull at bay.
20% for Rudd is bull butter and is only because people can recognise his name as he is PM now.
Half those other PMs have done more to change Australia than Rudd has in only 1 year as PM…
further to that b’uggered’ story , and Socrates earlier coment of media exagerations , confidense is a fickle thingy and is vital with Govt pump primin to provide stimuli and reduce GFC afects ….GFC will hurt us , we’ll get a deficit , higher unemployment , a tech recesion etc , but we don’t want silly media talking econamy potentialy don worser than what it will be as that can be self creating also into worse tech recession As for depression it is not going to happen here for numerous reasons , but some countrys may end up on edges there
abit of responsibility wuldn’t hurt and critisise indiv policys directon , but responsobility is not an MSN word known , perhaps Malcolm could try that aproach & be suportative on Keynesan approach and difer in detail , but not sure he ralizes that wuld be quite politcaly wise , let alone econamicly so and that his cureent bagging is not confidense wise (longterm) helpful to oz
I’m surprised that Ben Chifley didn’t make it to towards the top of the “favourite PM since WW2″ list. I think this is partly because not many people under the age of 70 have heard of him (except for politics geeks like us), and also because Australians don’t really know much about the history of our Prime Ministers. This might be a good thing and a bad thing. At least we don’t turn our leaders into canonised heroes like the Americans do. I can’t ever imagine Bob Menzies on the obverse of our 5-cent piece, or Andrew Fisher on the $20 note, or a public holiday devoted to the birthday of John Curtin.
I’d love to see the results of a “least favourite PM” poll. I nominate Billy Hughes, by a very very long margin, with Stanley Bruce and John Howard neck-and-neck a distant second.
Catatonia,
Keating would run hot in a “least favourite PM” poll. He created a whole generation of rusted-on Liberals – myself included.
Ron,
Unfortunately Bonhoffer was killed by the Nazis a month before the end of the war.
Dyno
#11
“Ron, I suspect GWB would be a much better bloke to have a beer with than most political leaders … which probably sums up his problem as a leader.”
Dyno , i’d be a better person that GWB for you to hav a beer with , especialy if you were shouting I mean then i’d almost agree with everting you said
now if you took all th Labor Premiers incl Carpenter ex WA Premier , if i was having to pay 50/50 then i’d only be intersted in a beer with Beattie (and Anna) , and Bracks , supose Brumby if quality beer is on offer to make up for his humour lacking ….other Labor Premiers can drink by themselves if I’ve gotta pay for my drinks I feel its purely a co-insidense that I also think Bracks Beatie Anna Brumby etc th best Premiers as likability and performanse different
Turnbull is making reasonable progress given the circumstances. Problem is when he doesn’t produce the magic wand and magic away the weight of the past 12 years the polarising, dry liberal faction will begin to get impatient, either ousting him or leading to him saying some ultra-conservative things to placate them, and upsetting the electorate in the process. Someone put the sod out of his misery, if anyone deserves to have to suffer the pains of first term opposition it is Abbott, shove him in the grinder for three years. Turnbull can have another go in a more favourable climate like Peacock and Howard both go to.
And Canatonia, I agree whole heartedly, Hughes the worst of the worst, Howard and Bruce can fight for second.
Howard would top the least favoured PM as well, lets say with 72%
Dyno
Posted Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 12:07 am | Permalink
“Ron, Unfortunately Bonhoffer was killed by the Nazis a month before the end of the war.”
Just saw that post Dyno , sorry to hear that Obviously a brave man and wars produce those wonderfuls fighting for a reel cause , and yet one sees some Dictators around th World and wonder at them shake me head and amazed at diferences in th quality of diferent men
Britain has announced a new bank bailout scheme today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/business/worldbusiness/20ukbanks.html?_r=1
Ron and Judith
Sorry you were quite right – I saw the “buggered” quote on the news by Richardson. Anyway as Ron said the rest of his comments were still reasonable – he did not imply any criticism of current government policy. I also agree on the importance of language and confidence – widespread optimisim and pessimism can both be self fulfilling. People shoudl understand that this shoudl pass more quickly in Australia, as the underlying debt problem is noting like the US. We have to get things moving again.
As for this poll; its steady as she goes, why would there be any change on recent events?
“the underlying debt problem”
you ar quite right Socrates , our debt is manageable , whilst US’s is quite worrying Whilst chinese won’t desert th US $ in securities buyng , they do face intersting choises as well now in levels of investments & how , given there projected contracton of available excess funds to invest and where do you feel
Catatonia, I was thinking along the same lines but was shot down by Possum. Most people have zero idea who people besides Keating, Howard and Rudd are.
In international news, El Salvador is going to the polls this weekend and it’s predicted they may become the latest Latin American country to make a leftward turn.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/16/el.salvador.election/index.html
This should not be understated as El Salvador has traditionally been a US economic outpost in Latin America.
Dynos @ 16
Keating was bad (with some good points), though I haven’t heard anyone bad-mouth Keating for several years now. Like I alluded to in @15, political memories fade. I think the 2007 election result is testament to this. In 1998, 2001 and 2004 memories of Keating, and the “recession we had to have”, and the 17% interest rates, the perceived pandering to minority interests, and the cosying up to South East Asian dictators such as Suharto, would probably still have been stronger. So I don’t think Keating would rate as high in a hypothetical “worst PM” poll now as he would 5 years ago.
Vera @ 20
John Howard probably would top the “worst PM ever” poll, but only because he’s so fresh in everyone’s memory. Give it another couple of generations and all his bad points would fade from people’s minds and he’ll be probably be remembered, if he is remembered at all, as just another plodding, do-bugger-all conservative PM in the mould of Malcolm Fraser or Bob Menzies who got Australia involved in some war or other.
OZ
“Catatonia, I was thinking along the same lines but was shot down by Possum.”
oz , don’t let that marsupial up there in a tree put you off
“respondents aged 18 – 24 were more likely to rate Gough Whitlam as the best
as the best Australian Prime Minister (17%)”
So th young people voted our Gough at 17% , and overall that dropped to 9%
Then “Respondents in the 25 – 34 year age group were more likely to rate Kevin Rudd as the best Australian Prime Minister (34%)” & overall that dropped to 20%
So enemy marsupial must hav fallen off his branch there
Also “People aged 50 years and over were more likely to prefer Robert Menzies (19%)” , which overall dropped to 11%…which as i sugested earlier is a demograpgic problam i feel libs hav
WILLIAM , you may like to tell essential Research that my post said 55% went for Labor PM’s and 45% to Lib PM’s per there own chart but at bottom they say:
“56% of respondents nominated a Labor Prime Minister compared to 44% who nominated a Liberal.” which is incorect , and perhaps they may not appreciate somone of my eloquense pointing out there maths errors
I’m extremely proud of the people in my age bracket. University age radicals are what make this country what it is.
Just saw Possum’s article on the same subject of the Best PM Since WW2 poll. I’m surprised that Gough was more popular among people aged 18 to 24. This shoots my “political memories fade” theory a little bit out of the water. Not right out of the water, but enough to get a few feathers dry.
The 18-to-24 cohort was born in January 1985 at the latest – 9 years and 2 months after Gough’s dismissal. Therefore, the 17% of this age cohort who picked Whitlam as their favourite PM must have gotten their information which caused them to like Gough from some source. Perhaps their parents mentioned E.G. with adulation over dinner a few times, or maybe they heard about him on Triple J, or possibly some progressive-minded school teachers and university faculty members. Who knows?
Catatonia, you might be interested to know that I sent the following email to Essential Media two months ago, shortly after they had asked a question on perceptions of Howard:
“Certainly my readership would be fascinated to see the results from this kind of question, for whatever that’s worth.”
I’d be fascinated to see them corect there maths per my #27 , seeing they obviously took up your suggeston to poll by PM’s
you know that us libs will eventually beat you, ha ha ha ha
hello glen, my fellow twaveller
Ron, it’s obviously to do with rounding – we’re adding up results that have been rounded to full percentage points, whereas they have raw figures to go off.
and then you will win again, you howwible socialist, dang, and then we shall win, and then you shall, OOOhh the endless Cycle of life!
William i can see what you’re saying , however its rather inconsistent to show rounded % figures per PM , that show Labor PM’s at 55% suport and then via rounding say “56% suported Labor PM’s”
Essential could hav rounded by PM first , so that adds equal….or show PM’s by decimal , but they seem to hav criss crossed methodoloogys to what I’d hav done , but then i’m not Essential
seeing rounding affects even Newspolls % figures both Nationaly and by State ….like th curent Newspolls of 54/46 may be anywhere from 43.6% to 54.4% …and then th MOE
corecton , from 53.6% to 54.4% …0.8% diferential (not 43.6% to 54.4%)
No 28
Oh please. University radicals have barely even set foot in the real world, let alone had a chance to shape it. After all, those same radicals are advocating for the imposition of compulsory taxes on students to subsidise their political escapades!
Another Liberal National conspiracy theory being developed for the Queensland campaign. What will they think of next?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24935529-5006786,00.html
“These are people who could tell you nothing at all about Khemlani, Morosi, Gair or the rest”
The inconvenient truth …
Probably the same people who could tell you nothing about siev X, Children overboard, Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Australian Wheat Board, workchoices, Reith, Andrews, Ruddoch or the rest.
Yes Steve @ 41,
Give me Khemlani,Morosi,Gair any day compared to those other utterly corrupt and contemptuous Sieve X, Children overboard etc.
steve @ 10,
That poll on Dec 7 may show what a Government can do with a $1000 handout at Xmas. Already the punters are asking, “What have you done for me lately?”
Apart from that quirk, the trend shows the electorate actively standing still.
#38
I think you missed the sarcasm.
ummm Steve, you forgot their last nasty, Haneef.
I think that’s a pretty strong misrepresentation. Young Australians are not idiots and certainly have not be under represented in rallies and campaigns against WorkChoices, the Iraq war and for human rights in recent years.
In two days time, Whitlam passes Frank Forde to become the longest-lived Australian PM ever
“Probably the same people who could tell you nothing about siev X, Children overboard, Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Australian Wheat Board, workchoices, Reith, Andrews, Ruddoch or the rest.”
Indeed Steve, will any of us ever be TOLD the full truth on those topics. Some powerful people went to a lot of trouble at the time to prevent those in the know from speaking. As much as I looked forward to 2005 for hte end of the 30 year rule to see the truth about east Timor, I suspect we’ll have to wait till 2035 for the truth about Howard, ugly as I expect it to be.
Here is an in-depth misunderstanding of the Newspoll from the ABC, where clearly Antony Green needs to do some teaching of the reporters about MOE and outliers:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/20/2469640.htm
#43, [“What have you done for me lately?”]
Amigo GG, guess what? Heard this morning Gerry Harvey of Harvey Norman whinging already that the $10B handouts was for December, it has passed quickly and not doing anything for january. You have to hand it to good old Gerry, the bastion of capitalism and free market.
Dont also forget, Gerry also pioneered the “buy now, no interest for 2 years and pay later with 28% interest if you miss a payment”, supported by GE Money.
Ultimatley the hadnout shows that, while useful, handouts and tax cuts are NOT as effective at generating jobs as direct government investment. Whether in health, education, transport or internet hardware, that is where we shoudl put money next. It both generates employment and demand in the short term, and gives us a useful end result in the long term. I hope all the talk about tax cuts is just that – talk. Apart from payroll tax (now very small in most states) tax cuts don’t create jobs.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24935538-11949,00.html
Clean coal not viable even with an ETS. Wow, what a surprise. Now bury the stupid idea.
Time to buck up and back Nuclear Energy but of course the ALP have a stupid ideological opposition to the one technology that could help reduce carbon emissions…
Catatonia went:
Not really Catatonia.
17% is the top figure for the youngest demographic (for Whitlam) but it’s not a very big figure in and of itself.
SO when you have Rudd rudd getting a third of the 25-34, double digits in the 18-24 and then fading out as you get into older age groups – it still makes you right, there’s just variance in the figures that cloud the relationship between political memory and PM support, but not to the point of suggesting it’s actually incorrect.
Ron – Essential might have got their 56% figure from adding up the raw numbers and then rounding, rather than adding up the rounded figures. That is actually the way things are supposed to be done in polling – calculations made raw then rounded.
Poss
Mumble has a rounding quibble as well,tho his relates to the latest poll being 54-46,Mumble says it should be 55-45
This Newspoll proves that people are ready to vote for the Coalition again but they don’t like Turnbull as the leader. Costello’s preferred-PM rating would be twice as big as Turnbull’s.
Unless the next newspoll goes to 53-47 then 45-55 is the status quo….for the time being.
16 dyno – I reckon there is a good chance Howard has created a whole generation of rusted on Labor supporters.
56 Bree – hardly. The last Newspoll was clearly a rogue poll. This just continues the pattern of last year’s polls. The Libs are as far away from government as they were last year.
57 – That’s a fair comment Glen IMHO.
Gus, I agree with Mumbles – rounding knocks these things around sometimes. Last Newspoll was probably unlucky to be a 59 rather than a 58 in the same way this one is unlucky to be a 54 rather than a 55 (unlucky in terms of sampling error throwing the results fractionally enough one way for the rounded numbers to come in as they did).
Neither Morgan nor Essential have had similar poll movements in the new year – they’ve been effectively flat, so it’s unlikely that the true underlying level of political support as determined by Newspoll was either as high as it was or as low as it currently is.
A new Nielsen would be nice to to add to the mix to see.
It looks like Costello will be on the back-bench for another year.
glen
care to chance your arm and give a prediction for the mid year figures
Poss
The way the MSM is playing it,you would think that fibs were on some resurgent wave.
Taking into account the avg. I suppose its no real change and we are hovering around the 55-45 mark (still honeymoon territory)
The best excuse for a 5% swing to the Liberals (other than LOTS of noise) would be if, in between the two Newspolls, Rudd had’ve released a really crap, cave-in, woefully inadequate, anti-science, Howard-like policy which failed to address the biggest threat to Australia’s future and made us a pariah nation around the world.
I see that new political channel is up and running on pay TV. Had a peep earlier and they had Obama walking around a classroom in Washington making small talk and shaking hands.
I suppose that will be all we see as they will follow him around filming his every move right up to the big swearing in gig.
Diogenes,
I know Australia never lost a home cricket series under Howard. But, aren’t you taking it a bit too seriously.
I’m not sure that’s the case is it?
Samantha Maiden is getting short thrift on her write up about the poll, of course theres the usual libs but theres also some quite good blogs from some who see it as it is, i wrote one but i dont expect to see it published, i just said the whole beat up made the OZ a laughing stock because it was just a settling back to normal figures.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24935702-601,00.html
Gary
The ETS White Paper was released on the 15th December. The last Newspoll was 7th Dec and was 59:41.
GG
No, I’m not being terribly serious but someone had to say it and it might as well have been me. I think the 7th Dec Newspoll at 59:41 was artificially inflated by the Christmas handout. I do think that part of Rudd’s drop in approval rating is due to the ETS though. Lots of “progressive elitists” would have said they didn’t approve of him because of it. I certainly would have switched from approve to disapprove, but wouldn’t have changed my vote.
On a more serious note, there’s lots of chatter that Rudd is going to announce a new stimulus package. He’s in Adelaide today to meet Lance Armstrong. The ACTU wants an “emergency energy retrofit” to deal with climate change, which would create jobs.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24936983-601,00.html
Diogenes,
Aren’t you falling for the old Shanahan foible of picking one change in a poll and using that to make predictions that re-inforce your already established prejudices? It’s probably true that you want the reason for the drop in popularity to be a populist reaction to ETS. However, the evidence of one poll coming after a previous poll that was an outlier is not convincing.
If you take the previous poll out, the trend line is flat.
GG
Yes, I am. Shanahan is my mentor.
I’m being more of a Devil’s Advocate than anything. Without Boerwar around at the moment, someone has to put a CC spin on the polls.
What I really want to know is whether all you Obama-doubters going to commit mass harakiri tonight.
For the record, here is the record by the Bush Administration.
http://www.metafilter.com/78429/100-Things-Im-Ready-To-Take-Credit-For
Diogenes,
Really, as you are an athiest I would have thought the “Devil” is a fairytale to your ilk. I could see you as a “Fairy Advocate”.
As for Obama, I bow to the tyranny of the majority who seem to have invested this untested performer with messianic powers. I wish him well. However, there is plenty of room in this world for doubters.
Nonetheless, I’ll concede that, if sweet words could solve the world’s problems, then he could go alright.
GG
I’m sure Dio was using it as a metaphor. The devil (and god) are like “the will of the people” – you don’t have to believe they exist but its hard to disprove them.
As for Obama, I don’t think he’s the messiah, he’s just a very nice boy
This is one for the “it could be worse” category as far as Australia is concerned. Spain has bene put on negative credit rating watch alert by S&P i.e. the national debt might get downgraded below AAA. Greece, Ireland, Italy and Portugal are in a similar situation.
http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/economics-and-demography/standard-poors-puts-spanish-sovereign-debt-on-ratings-watch-negative/
This doesn’t mean these countries could default but does mean they will pay more interest on their debt, and may find it harder to borrow.
Of course, given the rating agencies pathetic inability to forecast any of the recent failures, Spain could legitmately say its best to ignore S&P.
looks like the unions are coming to the party.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/01/20/2469871.htm
and though we all know the budget will have to go into deficit to save jobs Julie is banging the drum about it here, dunno what she wants–i take that back yes i do, she wants the government to fall into a screaming heap while the economy explodes so she can switch benches.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/01/20/2469988.htm
Trade unions have lost their influence on employers ever since March 2, 1996.
Paul Williams with a different slant on the next Queensland election. Independents will be a big risk of winning seats, he thinks.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24933495-27197,00.html
Diog, as per usual, you are wRONg, again. As per GG, i wish him well and sincerely hope he succeeds for all of us in this pitiful world.
From what i have seen so far, Obama is just happy to play the celebrity POTUS role, doing the swiggin’ jivin’ clappin’ and rappin’. And let others do the hard yakka, especially the likes of Clinton Mark 3. So i cant really commit harakiri over a virtual, digital POTUS as now.
btw: will be watching the crowning
Complete age breakdown on the Essential “Best Prime Minister” question:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/01/20/breakdowns-on-the-essential-best-pms-question/
There was a small error in the Essential commentary, Whitlam didnt come 1st in the 18-24s but third.
Possum, I think what Essential was trying to say was that the age group most supportive of Whitlam was 18-24, not that he was the highest rated PM among that group.
steve @ 79.
The LNP chance of winning the next Qld state election is not very high. They need to win exactly 22 seats from Labor and a uniform swing of 9.10% to the LNP. I can’t see this happening.
Finns be honest now the only reason you’ll be watching the crowning is to see if that Irish bet you had pays off. You want to see duckin’ and weavin’ instead of jivin’ and rappin’
The Finnigans, did you watch the making of Barack Obama on auntie last night? maybe you should have, it goes right back from law school up, do you know he spent quite a lot of time representing people who couldnt pay in court, like Rudd he did his time helping in homeless shelters, he helped start up programs to get the kids off the streets in chicago, he settled his family in a mixed middle class Chicago suburb, no fancy professional neighbourhood for him, both whites and coloureds from his old neighbourhood spoke highly of him and his family, maybe you’ve only been looking on the surface.
There wasnt an error, I’m an idiot. Apologies.
79: That Courier Mail article’s trying to get the usual message through, I see…
I’m sensing a bit of “good cop / bad cop” with this newspaper – a different way of getting the same thing. Coming from a town with the West Australian, I can sympathise with you Queenslanders – as soon as Bligh calls an early election, good cop’ll turn around and strike like a cobra.
Pfft. ‘Anecdotally’ = asked the barfly at the Journo’s Arms over a pint after work. Show me a poll.
Nuh uh. Besseling only won the by-election by 4.5% – Oakeshott was the guy with the ~30% margin, in both Port Macquarie and Lyne. Lazy shoddy reporting.
The Essential “Best PM” question is just like those dumb “Greatest Albums Ever” polls. The recent albums are always over-represented and the popular “classics” like Led Zep IV get wheeled out every time. The truly great albums like “In The Aeroplane Over The Sea” get missed.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AH3CRVVBL9o
I assume you mean “under-represented”, Diogs. Either way, I hadn’t pegged you as a Neutral Milk Hotel fan. Learn something every day.
Unless you’re saying the album doesn’t count as recent, which I guess is the case – it’s 10 years old now. Sobering.
[The Finnigans, did you watch the making of Barack Obama on auntie last night?
Judith, yes i did. i have no problem with Obi, as he and i have something in common., very common. It's to do with the soup that he and I like very much.
My problem is the expectations people placed on him. As a disciple of the Life of Brian, he is not a messiah, he is just a naughty boy.
Amigo Vera, you are a very naughty girl. Yes, the Irish joke was there, you know Uranium235 or U235, singing some rubbish song as per usual.
Nah, it’d be ‘over-represented’. Lists of best albums / songs of all time tend to contain a bundle of bands that just happen to be popular at the time of writing, especially if they’re voted JJJ Hottest 100 style. For example, Wolfmother would probably be in one of those lists written recently, whereas it wouldn’t be in such a list written in the year 2020. Find a list written in the late 90’s and see how many would still be on it now. ‘OK Computer’, ‘Moon Safari’, ‘Loveless’ etc would still be on it, but there’d be stuff that’s now fallen off the radar.
Poss, i wish the possums that come to poo on my back veranda every night would say that to me. i am thinking of cooking possum stew in red wine.
Enemy Marsupial
#54
Sometimes you spend too much time in th ‘right” place in that tree , instead of hopping a few branchs over to th “left” place
Your reply to my #27 on Essential Research’s maths ‘error’ is pretty well what William already replied to me in #34 saying
• 34
William Bowe
Posted Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 2:55 am | Permalink
“Ron, it’s obviously to do with rounding – we’re adding up results that have been rounded to full percentage points, whereas they have raw figures to go off.”
However I replied to William in my #36 which you may hav missed seeing , and await Williams reply to my #36 which said
“William i can see what you’re saying , however its rather inconsistent to show rounded % figures per PM , that when you add up those per PM rounded figures show Labor PM’s at 55% suport , but then separately use unrounded per PM % figures with decimals and (Essenbtial Reseach) end up saying in there Summary quote “56% suported Labor PM’s” “
So actually I ‘m saying Essential could hav rounded per PM first , and then there Sumary wulkd hav added to and acytualy said th total % Labor support (was 55%) , OR Essential could hav shown unrounded (by one decimal ) per PM and then there Summary wuld hav added to and actually said th total % Labor support (then being 56% rounded or to ist decimal , either way ) …but either way there individul per PM % support would hav added up to there total Summary figure o % Labor PM % support , but Esential research’s alternative criss cross double methods way doesn’t add up and equal , and is inconsistent
You say that’s th way raw figures ar domne …but why is “th way” right for th future …I’m saying if % per Labor PM support (55%) doesn’t add up to th total % of all Labor PM support (being 55%) and Esential in there Summary say instead say oh no its reely 56% not 55% but that’s ok guys , that may be th way its done but it doesn’t make it “right”….and these poling fraternities ar not immune from valid criticism either This political Site supposed to be intersted in accurate political data and done consistent
BTW my #36 also said this rounding bit is even in Newspoll and said then that current 54/46 NewsPoll can be a 0.8% diff reely , 54%/46% can be 53.6% up to 54.4% , and 45.6% to 46.4 …then th MOE , then small Partys % ‘s hard to be accurate on , but that doesn’t make Esential method consistent with this at all as they sub analysed per PM and by par % per PM
BTW I also suggested your memory fades view with th young is a bit off and actual just don’t agree with you at all nopw i tink about it , like as I mentioned th great Gough has 17% suport in 18-24 sector poled (but 9% overall) , so its not ncesarily a memory thing for th young at all , but th young selectivley seing/hearing of how big a achiever a PM was in changing our Country for th better , and our 18-24 young I sugest at 17% for Gough do obviously not hav faded memories weren’t born , so instead actualy remember/told of Gough th manificents from 36 years ago , so fully don’t agree with you there , its selective memory even for th young by greatness/effect …and actually Gough Whitlam got HIGHEST % support in 18-24 groups so that’s my case Whereas with Curtin I think bad history sylabus teachin English history instead of how great our aussie PM Curtin was
And yes , reckon curtin then Gough then Hawke ar our 3 greatesst PM’s by achievement/influence on our Country , and willing to ague for that as well
Liberace’s Beer Barrel Polka never goes out of fashion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ao8vIrzYto&feature=related
Julie Bishop will have answer the question, “How do we save jobs, help people out and keep the budget in surplus by cutting government spending, all at the same time?” The answer would be fascinating. Which is it Julie, jobs or surplus? Of course Glen assures us you can do both but is reluctant to explain how.
Make that – Julie Bishop will have TO answer the question ….
William
Jeff Mangum of Neutral Milk Hotel could have been up there with Mark Oliver Everett, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain if he wanted to. Colin Meloy of the Decemberists is probably his heir.
Apparently, History will be kind to that nice Mr George W.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24934654-5013480,00.html
I can scarcesly believe my luck
“Possum
Posted Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 3:16 pm | Permalink
#86
I’m an idiot. Apologies.”
a line I can see thats just gonna keep on giving
Perhaps Obama has ‘delivered’ deliveranse to me ……after all
Gary i have told you how, No Fair Work Australia and bring back Pre-2005 AWAs with the original no disadvantage test that the 1996 AWAs had and bobs your uncle oh and how ill tell you how you cut spending while delivering tax cuts to stimulate the economy….
Wow Gerry Harvey is the latest economic advisor to Malcolm Turnbull.
Ever noticed that Harvey Norman sells its goods at recommended retail price? Why? Because the computer shop, bed shop, furniture shop etc are all separate businesses all paying franchise fees and rent to Mr Harvey.
So unless you need to “buy now – pay later” there is very little reason to shop there. Did you know the retailer has to pay a penalty charge if the “buy now – pay later” gets paid off on time?
The other way they (and others) make money is by selling extended warranty, in fact many retailers make more Gross Profit selling warranties than they do selling the original goods.
Have a close look at HN price tags – they show buy price, the price where the sales person starts to get commission and the GE Money price.
I suggest people with cash in hand would not buy from Gerry.
Glen what I think your zig zag zig post means is …you’ve now ditched W/C ?….you’ve now taken up Keatings 1996 no disavamntage test ?…………..and that is gonna produse growth in your free market deregulatd IR where workers ar comodities based on clinicol supply and demand theory …..and you will cut spending as well but say not say where these cuts will be or how much ?……and you will deliver tax cuts , amount also unspecified , but believing such free market idealology of tax cuts to create growth in a GFC envioronment , despite Wall St showing that ideaolgy is in ruins , will “somehow” ‘deliver ‘ econamic growth & jobs ?
Thats a recipe for lots of our Ruddy terms of office , you see youse guys for a politcal furture at min , need to embrase regulaton and Keynes and dust bin your idealogue past gurus , use dates ar gone on thems
Ie continue with Workchoices.
So how does it help the federal budget stay in surplus Glen when the government is to give tax cuts?
Explain the rationale behind these actions Glen. I suspect they’re steeped in ideology rather than practicality.
Gerry Harvey, the economic genius who recently described homeless people as “no-hopers” and “a drag on the whole community” …
Gerry Harvey who wanted a 2 tier wage system so he could use overseas slave labour and pay them a pittance and then before long Howard & workchoices III would have lowered the rest of Oz wages to match.
As ruawake says he is the latest economic advisor to Malcolm Turnbull who has taken him on after Howie got the boot.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22625338-3122,00.html
According to his wife, Biden was offered a choice between SOS and VP. His wife wanted him home more so he went with VP.
If he went with SOS, Hillary might have been VP. Oh, the humanity.
Vera this line from your link says it all.Poor dear old man,makes one feel sorry for him.
“I’ve got horse studs and it’s difficult to get staff”.
Why would Obama be offering him a choice between VP or SOS before he’d even won the election? Doesn’t sound right.
Diogenes
Posted Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 12:36 pm | Permalink
“GG Yes, I am. Shanahan is MY mentor. “
Sorry Dario. I forgot the link. It was on Oprah. A Biden spokesman denied it afterwards.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/19/biden-had-a-choice-betwee_n_159159.html
Ron
Shanahan taught me everything I know about reading polls in a biased, incorrect and unscientific manner. It comes in handy occasionally.
vera
Posted Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 7:04 pm | Permalink
“Gerry Harvey who wanted a 2 tier wage system so he could use overseas slave labour and pay them a pittance and then before long Howard & workchoices III would have lowered the rest of Oz wages to match.”
Hello Vera , quite right there about Gerry Harvey
Also today he may be very ‘respected’ , but yesterdays …ah th yesterdays of Gery harvey , now when i met Gerry many times at meetings accross tables , first when he had his failed Norman Ross business , and thens when he opened with some dificults th new business first store at auburn of Harvey Norman (with same mate Ian both times) …now that was yesterdays , and Malcolm Turnbull obviousley doesn’t know much , but th Gerry not a finance guru , and not a fan of me at all …many meetings and many times said i didn’t like his balance sheets , all pyromids of paper and straw at bottoms to me , and very very uinimpressed was Gerry with that , and especialy with all his accounting guru’s sitting there nicely suitedd were they but horified at such blasphames …so Vera am quite happy Malcolm is using my Gerry , will do him absalutely no good at all
I just noticed that ABC, 7, 9 and 10 are all showing the Inauguration of Barack Obama. I can’t remember the last time all four showed the same event. Even for Di’s funeral channel 10 showed a movie or something.
ABC is probably the best bet but with that cretin Barry Cassidy as host, we’ll have to put up with 50% of his comments being pro-Bush/McCain so he can keep his pitiful job. I don’t think I can stomach that.
The tax cuts idea is, both economically and politically, silly. Economically tax cuts don’t create as much stimulus as direct investment because some people use the saving to pay off debts rather than spend. This is true of businesses and individuals.
Politically it is not the greatest cause of confidence either. Those who have a permanent job don’t need the tax cuts. Inflation is now dead and with falling interest rates and fuel prices, most people can get by on their current salary. OTOH if you don’t have job security you are stuffed, no matter how low interests rates go. if peopel know their jobs are safe they will feel a lot better about life.
The idea of limiting working hours and using that to get more employment is a very good one. Its far better to have more people doing teh same work than having soem working a lot and others on social security. And all get a better life. It was legislated in France a few years ago and was well accepted, especially by the young who saw themselves as frozen out of the job market.
A lot of the current mess in employment, with some overworked and others not employed, is because we did away with all those “inefficient” penalty rates for overtime years ago. But were they really inefficient? For the company maybe, but for the nation as a whole probably not. I can still remember the time when I coudl have a professioal job, finish at 5pm, and go play some sport before dinner. It was a healthier life, and I still got my work done.
I know this may seem like a rant, but if this crisis causes us to reexamine some of the sillier consequences of economic rationalism, it might actually do some good.
If Turnbull was talking about reducing company tax I could understand his logic, any reduction in personal tax – or bringing it forward is going to do stuff all.
But I think there was an economic guru from the USA who said tax cuts were the bee knees last year, Turnbull is still regurgitating this mantra.
If Julie Bishop waffles on about “modelling” I think I will puke – just in case I will buy a new bucket with my Kev Xmas pressie.
Socrates
According to the Taylor rule, if they could drop interest rates to MINUS 6%, they could avoid a recession. Those high interest rates Cossie and Howie gave us have really given Rudd a lifeline to lever the economy.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/getting-fiscal/
Diog
You need to appreciate that in the US people buy a house with a 30 year fixed mortgage.
Comparing US interest rate policy with Australia is stoooopid.
ruawake
You can download this at Moody’s. It gives a “bang for your buck” ratio of dollars spent vs increase in GDP. Corporate tax cuts rate very poorly at 0.30, as do all permanent tax cuts. One off tax cuts rate better but actual spending increases are easily the best.
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small Business_7_24_08.pdf
Dio
Yes that is exactly the problem in the US. But even here I an suggesting that direct govt spending would be a more effective form of stimulus than a tax cut.
ruawake, you might struggle to find a bucket. Most were sold before Christmas to people needing to carry coins to the RSL.
(But not back.)
You’re kidding me! Why the hell would they do that?
Diog
Is that the same Moody’s who said Collateralised Debt Obligations were AAA rated ?
ruawake
Has anyone ever told you that you have a very mean streak sometimes.
I put my blind faith in Krugman and he seems to like Mark Zandi’s analysis.
Diog its historical – its the way its alway been done – just like employers paying health insurance for their workers.
Many “journalists” make similar errors – exstrapolating US figures into an Ozzie context. It all turn to crud because our economies are very, very different.
Innerwestie, they weren’t buckets, they were thimbles!
http://economics.com.au/?p=2079
The media just love gerry harvey because he is a motor mouth, most of the time with his foot in it.
harvey was cheering when the money was being spent in his stores just a few short weeks back.
Well, you must be an abstemious lot up there in QLD steve. This is from yesterday’s Adelaide Now:
The latest Office of the Liquor and Gambling Commissioner figures show people spent $68.1 million on poker machines in December, an increase of more than $8 million on the $59.76 million spent in December, 2007.
This is the most spent on poker machines during December in any year and is higher than spending levels reached before the State Government removed 3000 machines in 2004 in a bid to cut gambling. It is also higher than the previous month – November – when people gambled $60.94 million.
The increase coincides with the Federal Government’s $10 billion rescue package, which was delivered on December 8 and designed to prompt spending.
Yep in December he thought the $10b was brilliant, now because he wants to close stores without suffering any backlash he makes it sound like the $10b was dumb.
Here he is in December:
but also in the same article here’s a bit of news:
oh, so it had nothing to do with the stimulus package “failing”, but because he was going to do it anyway…
whoops – the link to 128 – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24808707-5018018,00.html
but thats Gerry th talker ……he’s top shelf in that department , few better
Although i cannot stand Gerry Harvey and yes he was preaching his love for the nice round figure of 10 Billion before Christmas, i agree with his comments. This spend fest was a waste of dollars. Better to use the money on projects which will bring worthwhile benefit to this country. When will the country begin invest in Solar Technology, or how about better public transport or water projects to help people, but instead we get a gimic called 10 billion why not 9.1 billion, no 10 billion.
And what i read Swan wants to use tax cuts, is he mad that would increase the deficit even more… As i have said before governments need to borrow and spend and own things again instead of this fetish of believing that the private sector will get us out of this mess. Tax rises on the rich should occur instead of tax cuts. They will be immune from the crisis and should instead be made to help the needy in a time of collapse. Britain has just done this.
It would be good if the government owned a bank but it sold it when Labor was last in power.. a government bank may make more loans and encourage the other banks to do the same due to competition.
They should also scrap the first home owners grant, why possibly put people in homes which they be unable to afford if they lose their jobs, therefore encouraging people to buy homes could down the track see people blaming the government for such actions. And was Rudd at another sporting event.. Howard all over again.
Gerry Harvey has had a plan to “own” whitegoods retailing, the Domayne stores are a direct competitor to his Harvey Norman and Joyce Mayne stores.
The losers are the HN franchisees who suddenly see a competitor open across the road, paying fees and rent to the same parent company.
Gerry complains that there are too many retail stores, but in his space he “owns” most of them.
His domayne fiasco was a bad business decision – but he blames it on the great financial swindle.
HN franchise owners were complaining about the domayne concept two years ago.
So Gerry Harvey is an economic expert? Actually i think anyone can be an economic expert. I remember access economics stating time after time last year that their will be no recession, a slowdown and modest growth and now it is a deep recession and we are buggered…
The poll result put simply make the most of it Labor it will not last.
Although i believe they will win the next election federally many State Governments will not survive… NSW, Victoria and South Australia, all have dud leaders and somewhat dud policies… Victoria wasting money on a Massive Station and failing to use it on public transport stupid policy… Now coming home to roost… Mind you still do not know what the Liberals policy as usual… But realistically they will not have to release one the public will so fed up anyway to care.
Great sentiment marky, but would take ages to do anything for the economy. Meanwhile we all go down the toilet. Not the right option.
Have to agree. It’s like seeing a house on fire and deciding to build a fire station.
So throwing money around like confetti works? I would be delivering stimulus packages which look at short term and long term projects Dario. Projects which you can begin work on immediately. Surely the government could ask some of our State Treasurers about what worthwhile projects you could immediately fund and begin work on.
How about increasing pensions or providing dole reciepents with extra funds or employing more people in the public service… or giving money to local government to do the same. Projects to clean up our inner city creeks and rivers would be a good start and it would have long term benefit. More bike paths another project of benefit.
I would be delivering stimulus packages which look at short term and long term projects Dario.]
And if you’d been paying attention, that’s exactly what the goverment has been doing. An immediate stimulus package of $10b, and various medium-term infrastructure projects brought forward.
I would like to know how many people actually saved the money the got at Christmas or put it into paying of debts instead of spending it.
Best to provide more Government jobs to get us out of the mess. In 1983 and 1991 the Hawke Government put significant amount of money into projects to get the economy going and this i think is the way to go. It provides people with skills, self esteem and a future.. A 10 billion giveaway does nothing.
Just before Christmas the Federal government gave local councils $300m to spend on infrastructure projects
Rubbish
Yep 10 billion a nice round figure why not 10.1 billion, similar to Murray Darling Scheme, wasted money which the bureaucrats will piddle up against a tree.
Yep need both – without the infrastructure program we might as well go back to the barter system.
marky, dunno where you get the idea Rann will be going down the gurgler, MHS is a dill and it shows, he’s struggling to retain a safe liberal seat in last weekends by election, it’s down to the wire, actually it was expected to go the way of most by elections and be anti government, instead theres a slight movement towards the Rann government, thats after Rann made some unpopular moves that should have pssd the voters off, we crow eaters might btch about Rann but we also know where we’re better off, the state election next year will show very little movement and any movement wont be to the libs, if there is any changes it’ll be the libs losing to independants.
‘HN franchise owners were complaining about the domayne concept two years ago.”
that all , i know of creditors , but no one ever associated with me , ‘waiting’ decades longer than that , and it s worth more than complaints
Oh ffs. If it was 10.1 billion you’d say “why 10.1?”.
i cant speak for anyone else marky but my money was spent on repairs to my crazy cottage so local guys got my share, my pal spent hers on recovering her lounge, again locally, next door had a new fridge {australia made} and grandie spent her money on a bedroom suite so the little fellow could have a bed instead of the cot, not a pokie in sight.
Yep give you that Dario, but how many councils are their in Australia? This may amount to very little in the end. So the difference between 10 billion and 300 million is…
Nonetheless this does not change my mind. This package to me was kind of like a bribe, fueling further greed and maybe putting people further into debt or short term debt or using the dollars to gamble or drink. I do not know begrudge giving money to people who need it such as pensioners or single parents, but was this package means tested?
Marky, as Dario pointed out, putting money into medium term infrastructure projects is exactly what the gov’t. has done. Furthermore, no-one yet knows how the money to pensioners, FTA benefit people got spent, really, but people weren’t supposed to save it, or pay off debts, necessarily.
Sigh, so early in the year, and already so hypertensive about the ABC’s reporting! I had ABC Online in the background today at work, and I swear no definition of balance could describe the amount of time Turnbull, J. Bishop and the latest addition to the ABCs pool of economic gurus, G. Harvey, received.
Turnbull doesn’t disappoint, though, does he? I suspect he believes if he just keeps telling the gov’t what to do, a la Bushfire Bill’s Rainman expose, eventually he’ll get it right. Trouble is, Minchin and neocon compadres, will fight to the death to retain control. I’d love to be a fly on the wall inside the Libs. strategy meetings; it must drive Turnbull nuts.
so who’se sitting up for the inauguration ceremony tonight??
there was a few digs in the blogs today because Bush never gave Rudd a farewell phone call, though how the journo’s would know that heaven knows, anyway my mind boggled at the thought if Howard was still PM, after what he’d said about Obama i very much doubt he’d have ever got a call of any sort.
Marky Marky ”
“put significant amount of money into projects to get the economy going and this i think is the way to go. It provides people with skills, self esteem and a future.. A 10 billion giveaway does nothing.”
Marky marky I’d like you you to tink about options here
In a normal downturn Marky Marky you ar absalutely right ie put money into infra type bit and no give aways , and certainly no Liberol Party proposed tax cuts so in principal I agree with you
Well govt is doing what you want , th infrastuture type things , howevr Govt also has had no choise but to also give a stimuli of give aways to get pensions & famiys etc to spend….figures indicated th GFC winds already had affected sales , growth and unemployment …AS THEY hav WORSER in other countrys , so Rudd jumped in to stop those worser efects happening here as well since figures indacated econamy was deteriorating …to buy “time” four th longer term infrasture type things to kick in and hav a then positive efect
Love an argument… So are their any Libs in South Australia who could replace the dud of a liberal leader.. The economic mess will kill many of our Labor Priemers and yep if the Libs have no Answers in South Australia to the mess than Labor may get back in.
And yep i am happy you and your friends have some new furniture, but what of the future? Harvey Norman Judith?
And more independents great, because both sides are to busy helping the mega rich in this country and the media barons who run the country .
No 135
That presumes that the house was ever on fire. There is no material evidence that the Australian economy is in dire straits. Unlike the UK and US, we have not had massive bank collapses.
Actually it was 10.4 billion so it was my mistake as usual… The media i suppose with their continued carry on sucked me in…
Anyway for pin the dockey on my backside…
marky, ask and Lib HQ supply GP, amazing.
You can call it what you like, but the facts are that 60% of our economy goes through the retail sector. Leading up to Christmas the writing was on the wall and the retail sector was in deep shit. If the government had sat on its hands they would have been pilloried. An immediate stimulus was needed.
“Love an argument…”
but mate , you lost easily as you didn’t realize Rudd had to do both bits , short 9to buy time from GFC efects) and long (for infrastucture net benefits)
“The economic mess will kill many of our Labor Priemers”
No it won’t….NSW was gone/lost well before th GFC …and Vic , Qld and SA and Federal won’t be lost…so which state ar you refferring to
Got work tomorrow, Judith, and am finally drawing together a lovely project with both Fed. and State money to do some bonza ‘triffic stuff with families where a parent has a mental illness. There may be lots of droning on about the failures of the Vic.Labor gov’t, particularly about public transport, but I tell you what, they’ve certainly been out ahead of the State pack with regard to health in general and mental health in particular. The local regional acute service had met their annual targets for non-urgent surgery, with the extra Fed. money, in November last year.
Think we’ll record the SBS coverage and watch it later. Besides I’ve a mate who’s got a formal invitation who’s promised to take lots of pics, and send commentary.
So Dario on the one hand the government says debt is bad and on the other it says that we must all spend spend and spend… what is going on here..
Perhaps you also think that it is good idea if workers go without pay increases also.
Generic Person, you’re back! Or have you ever been away? Are you writing Malcolm’s press releases of late, because it sounds very similar to Malcolm complaining today that Kevin had been talking about how bad things were economically, since coming to power?
Health care and education are significant wins for Labor in Victoria, unfortunately recent infrastructure projects are not. They seem to be fiddling whilst rome has burned in recent years and it is showing.
Steve comrade now who do you work for?
Gawd, marky, there’s different sorts of spending. Surely you get that. I’ve just told you that the money the Fed. gov’t. gave to the States to reduce waiting lists for elective surgery, wait for it, got used, to reduce the numbers of people waiting for elective surgery. Sheesh.
Marky, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next economic stimulus was directed at education, health, transport and broadband rollout. I agree that tax cuts would be a waste of opportunity when there is so much infrastructure that needs building or updating.
No 158
I’ve been enjoying the sandy shores of a Four Seasons resort in Thailand, hence my protracted absence.
Harry read between the lines peronal debt i have a problem with, but government debt i have no problem with.. Governments can get the best interest rates and they should borrow more.. It is personal debt that is out of control and this will make it an deep and nasty recession.
Governments ever since the 1980’s have had this fetish with debt and have passed it onto the individual and made each of us responsible for our affairs whereas governments should be investing in its populations and doing more. Superannuation a case in point, good while it lasts for the financial gurus who invest in shoddy deals but when it fails who wins only the financial crooks with your life savings.. Nice one Paul Keating living on your Government funded life scheme and bonus package.
Where in Thailand, G.P.? I must admit to a very soft spot for Koh Samui.
Did i hear broadband rollout? Which minister is doing a fantastic job organising this successful idea sorry a total mess and who was responsible for providing us with a host of broadband companies and competition in telecommunications… How you can have competition i wonder.. Still after all these years we dither over fast broadband and why because of stupid competition. And an even stupider person in Tasmania who helped sell Telstra Brian Harradine… Mind you damage already done.
First answer Steve Conroy
Second answer Kim Beazley
They said debt is bad?
Without, no. Tempered, now that inflation is falling, why not?
maybe i’m a bit thicker than normal tonight marky but i dont understand your reference to harvey norman to me, do you mean do i like the man? no i dont, or is it would i buy from him? well thats a resounding no! do i care if his business goes belly up? well i care for those who lose their jobs.
marky you were a bit patronising about the new furniture mate, i’m still paying a small morgage off and the repairs to my house were welcome, tradesmen cost the earth nowadays, my friend is crippled and rarely goes out, that new velvet covering for her lounge not only brightened her home up but it’s brightened her spirits up as well, my great grandie’s new bedroom suite means he can move out of the nursery and make room for his sister due in five months, isnt it dreadful we couldnt fufill the dire predictions of drink and pokies, though i must admit to a bottle of lambruska to see the new year in.
i think i’ll be taping it too HSO, things have been moving along here and i havnt been getting much sleep, actually i’m a bit like a cat on a hot tin roof and as jumpy as all hell, so i think i might try and nap later on.
Are you a Telstra shareholder or something? For goodness sake, they put in a dud bid and got punted. Go and cry somewhere else.
Marky Marky
What is any Labor Govt doing that you ar happy with
marky, I understand what you’re on about, unfortunately, when Keating undertook the reforms he did, particularly when he did, I don’t think anyone could have forseen how superannuation funds managers would behave, how many years down the track. If economists now can’t agree about how best to tackle the GFC, and they don’t, what the heck do you think Rudd, Swan and Tanner are going to do? Like you, I would rather gov’ts. took on debt to fund the things that are really needed to make a society just that, but this Fed. gov’t has got a monumental task in taking the population with it. One of the things that has struck me about the Obama campaign, is his appeal to something that binds U.S. citizens to something greater than the individual, which is sort of ironic. Rudd has been attempting something similar. Have a look at ‘The Piping Shrike’s’ site, for instance.
No 165
Good guess – the new Four Seasons in Koh Samui. Truly lovely spot.
HSO, do you have any programs for decrepit old dears who’se family thinks she’s nuts ‘cos she finds the old dear stuff like bingo, or oldies day trips, or gossipy afternoon teas, or knitting, bluddy boring, if so i think my lot would like to hear from you lol.
Judith, am thinking of you.
Harry
My tip for Obama ,and possibly Rudd to follow, is a peace corp ala JFK coupled with the Big infrastructure projects ala ‘the new deal’
Ron, marky is one of the left’s finest. Ideology before politics. Admirable, but a sure way to long periods in opposition and political impotency. Hey, just ask the Libs.
I must say though that on the deficit and government spending, I agree with you marky. It makes sense during these difficult economic times.
Judith, what interests you?
That’s an interesting one, Gusface. Hadn’t thought of that. You clever socks.
Upsetting everyone tonight with my Lefty take on things… People do not like others having opinions. Sorry to say this but maybe we are all to conservative.
Judith i do not begrude you being able to buy things and i am very sorry to hear of your plight and your freinds.. and if it came across as patronising well i do not go around putting people down due to their circumstances… Harvey Norman was tongue in cheek and perhaps my silly sense of humor got the better of me, i apoligise.
Nonetheless one should be asking about how and why you and other poor people are in such circumstances and if our governments are doing enough and i believe they are not.
This package was it means tested? If not why should wealthy families with kids get the bonus?
Dario i am not a Telstra shareholder. What kind of hypocrite would i be, aganist privatisation and i buy shares… If Telstra was government owned Dario we would have a first class broadband system now, more jobs, and all of us would have a better and cheaper service. I for one can still remember the free phones given to people when it is publically owned, now we get nothing but phonecalls about extra services which you have to pay for and broadband system made up of comapanies who have line dropouts and problems with service. Dario surely you admit that we have had a bunch of dud politicians running this country for to long.
And Dario a dud bid yes but who owns the infrastructure.
No 177
Going into deficit is absolutely unnecessary and irresponsible.
Gary Bruce i wondered where you were. Has Steve finally told you to leave the Labor Party headquarters and reply to my ranting. Happy New Year to you Gary missed your reply to something i said recently had to have a snooze and dream about Chavez and the Lefty governments and Europe and what good policies they were implementing.
GP you obviously have been reading the latest economic texts, please tell me how do you get of this mess if governments will not spend money?
marky, this is the last place you’d find where people with different opinions weren’t accommodated. Disagreeing with you is a different thing to not liking your opinion or you. A point I’ve previously, but unsuccessfully tried to make to Ron. You’re not him/her are you?
No 181 -
May be you can explain how you can have meaningful tax cuts for all and avoid going into deficit. You can also explain how you have infrastructure development of the scale needed to make a difference without going into deficit.
There have also been some very reputable economists who would dispute your assertion.
Gary Bruce , what like th old ’socialist left’ ? …..better th purity in idealalogy as opposition members , rather then reality equiteble policy and be in Govt
Rudd has raided (corectly) th future fund , given a stimili to ward off immediate GFC efects already evident in figures , has secured our bankin system with gurantees , interst rats ar down , petrol prices ar down , he WILL alow budget to go into deficit if needed and probably wil , AND he’s investig now in infrastucture ……do not see what all th complaints ar aboot VS rest of world in a mess
marky, you make the same error every time. You are the Labor member, not me. I’m not in any political party.
Agree Harry, people are all entitled to having an opinion and i am not against that. Stating your views is important and hopefully we do not end up like some Asian countries which jail people for doing so- pathetic.
Generic Person, @ 181. What would you persons do to deal with the current and projected (even though you can fudge this a bit, on account of the economists not having much of a clue anyway)?
Koh Samui is highly recommended by G.P., & H.S.O.
No 183
In the Australian context, there is no reason why the Federal Government should be going into deficit. It’s idiotic. We don’t have banks collapsing, we don’t have hundreds of thousands of job losses and the economy is still growing modestly.
There is a case for deficit spending in the US and UK, however.
Harry
I think the fact of the world economy today requires Gvt to take a direct interventionist role to
1.restore sanity
2.protect public assests eg infrastructure like roads, power blah blah blah
3.stop rorts
4.restore confidence in the basics of the economy and thru that society itself
as marky so poignantly said [Dario surely you admit that we have had a bunch of dud politicians running this country for to long.]
now its time to clean up the mess and put out the garbage.
marky,
yes Rudd was at a sporting event but unlike Howard he wasn’t there having the day off. It was more to do with him announcing funds for cancer research and the fact that Lance Armstrong is a cancer surviver who set up a fund for cancer research himself and has donated $100,000 of his own money to a cancer centre in melbourne. Rudd also while in Adelaide today had meetings with Swan and advisors to discuss economy and addressed an Australia Day function.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/20/2470433.htm
Tax cuts for all, and yep what services should be cut to provide the tax breaks?
This policy will increase the deficit.
I am glad you have finally recognised this Gary but it would not seem like it.
One day though you will be like me and critiscise those in power.
No 190 – you left out the words “at the moment” after the words “job losses” and “economy still growing modestly”. Very important words to leave out.
Generic kiddo, @ 190. If, as most of the financial reporting today was indicating, that there was going to be a lot less in the Fed. gov’t coffers, for instance, and I meana lot less. for stimulous spending, where are the gov’t. going to get the money?
The same old deficit theory is back. Ask me GP do you have a housing loan and how do you pay it off?
If unemployment rises due to an economic mess caused by a bunch of duds in America and because of a previous government which sat on it hands for to long and let us all go into debt that would mean reduced taxes and greater unemployment benefits therefore a higher deficit… But of course Australia GP is a little country miles from anywhere and ofcourse is immune to this so we should not go into deficit and recession. What next?
Vera, good to hear. Good policy.
Very tough times need tough solutions marky. At the moment going into deficit will be seen as necessary. That would have been political suicide not that long ago. I bet you were advocating it then too.
I don’t know why you think criticising the government is “good” and not doing so is “bad”. When I disagree with something I will do so. It just so happens I don’t. But if it makes you feel like a man go right ahead.
Hi Ron
what you been doing hanging out with gerry harvey? that sounds like a bad crowd to me, but I’m glad you told him you didn’t like his balance sheets and if he wasn’t too impresssed with you then it just goes to show what bad judgement the man has
Where’s the inauguration thread!?
Channel 9 has already started their coverage (ABC).
Gusface, it’s going to be interesting, no? I am certainly to the left, if that is any way still meaningful, of Rudd’s gov’t. Probably in a position of power, which I obviously ought not be, I’d have torn down those bastions of all that I despise about the Howard years…the detention centres. I understand the politics of managing the aftermath, as I understand the politics of trying to get an ETS through the parliament, doesn’t mean I like it.
Marky I think you like having a stir and getting us lot to bite don’t you. the more diverse the opinion the better anyway so keep up the good work!
Ron- refugees policy federally fantastic stuff and a great start.
More money for health and education good by our State Governments.
Decriminisling abortion in Victoria, gutsy and fantastic policy change.
Medicare changes last budget good first step.
More funding for public transport good policy initatives in Victoria.
Kyoto agreement pity about the rest.
National Parks creation in Victoria- Barmah and Gunbower regions pity that Murray will have no water to help keep the Red gums alive.
William,
Will you apply for the Editors position at The West ??
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2009/01/20/the-west-trawls-the-newsroom/
Vera, i actually believe in things and that is very much the prob today not many of us do, or actually think about the world around them. What things deep down are really causing probs to the world and should be changed… (Nearly going to say something about the Middle East but will not) but instead we continue to go down the same stupid paths everyday with the same problems… Why not fix them and create a better world…
203 – I don’t know who you are but stop pinching marky’s name.
Actually, I agree with Vera 202.
Hi shows
I think billbo needs his beauty sleep and so this is the defacto obi thread
Harry
I think obamas election has broken a lot of rules and Rudd certainly has shown that he is not all words and no action. As regards howrads leagcies,I think rudd will clean that up by his 2nd term
Gary or Steve.
marky, we may be a relatively new species, but we’re a remarkably adaptable one. You’ve got some angst going on, I know, but stay hopeful. Sometimes, like me, you have to work an entire lifetime to see real money put to something that’s going to make a difference. Do you have that endurance, marky?
Now whilst l’m gone you can all talk peacefully together.
Good night, time to think about Chavez and the European lefties who care about the world.
Gee, you’ve got me there marky. Steve I think. Those multiple personalities, I just can’t control them.
Night, fellow bludgers.
Sorry one last comment. Yes Harry. Do not worry comrade. See you another night.
Marky It’s good to be passionate about what you beleive in and to speak your mind but it ain’t all bad, there are some good things going on and Rudd is having a go and that will do me for now.
marky, good grief mate dont pity me, theres very little i need, the government is a bit more generous to war widows, the repairs to crazy cottage could have waited but as it is i’ve the comfort of them a little earlier, it was either that or a pretty new ‘puter, as my beloved darth vador is going fine the repairs won out.
HSO. as a foundation member of the first VOCs in the world {actually it was my brainchild} law and order will always be a very big interest to me, though i have nothing to do with VOCs now its government run, we managed to change a few things like the unsworn statement in our time, i get a great deal of pride in the fact the victim phamplet is automatically handed over at every crime scene, until recently i was giving a talk every semester to the tafe victimology class, Debbie the police victim contact officer jokes she owes her job to me and my friends of years ago, we have a commissioner of victims rights now as well.
obviously politics is a major interest, it always was, when my husband a career soldier was fighting in Vietnam i was marching with his blessing against that war, trotting along pushing my baby’s pram, i love reading, i think i’m the bookstore’s best friend, i teach animations to a couple of groups on line and of course my life gets enlivened a bit too much at times with serious stuff.
Bloody channel 9! They keep playing adverts instead of the U.S. coverage, and when they finally get back to it, the U.S. coverage goes to adverts!
No 203
The watering down of our refugee policy is a disgrace.
Marky I agree with your sentiments but not your specifics. I think the first home buyers bonus is a good idea. It doesn’t benefit me, but I think it is needed for the young. The costs (fees etc) of buying a house a so much higher now and it is neede just ot match them. Spending $21000 in a grant to stimulate $200-$300K in economic activity sounds a pretty good deal to me. Also it is being spent on the part of the market that isn’t overheated.
Much as I am in favor of infrastructure spending (personal bias I am an engineer) I also agree its not enough on its own in the short term. Measures to spread and reduce the cost of employment are the way to go for now I think.
GP, our whole refugee policy of the last ten years has been a disgrace, along with quite a few of Howard’s other little ideas, i sincerely hope Rudd will eventually just wipe it all off the face of OZ.
YEAH! It was better when we had a Government that moved bills that over ruled “any other law”, including – but not limited to – the criminal code.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/bill/mlab12001347/
Before I go off to sleep, does anyone know what time Oz time Obamas speech wil be given?
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,,24926472-2761,00.html
A good article about the wasted boom in WA by Liam Bartlett.
No 219
Judith, the best example of the results of poor border protection is the United States. I need not say more.
I accept that indefinite detention is not appropriate, but it should be mandatory and limited to 3 months, thereafter resulting in either a visa or deportation.
About 3:30 AM Eastern.
This is closer to the Labor policy than the Liberal policy.
GP
The US is a complete non-sequiter to Australian border policy. We don’t have a 1000 km mountainous land border with Mexico.
Thnaks ShowsON
Looks like I’ll be catching it on a replay.
thanks Vera
…been away
Actualy he wanted credit with lots of 000’s , plus lotsd of products vera , so was not social visits at all them meetings , we had a communication problem as he reckoned I talked diferently and worse wuld not believe him or what i said were his straw figures , and his pitch was virtualy all financiers & suppliers “trusted” him (and did actualy although i denied that) so why would not I ….anyway in end couldn’t convince him about th figures he was too smart to admit thats , so my tack was convinced him i was th most distrustful person he’d ever meet so those sacred bricks and mortar for me , and then after it all , he then gritted out people should believe in ‘values’ and that word ‘trust’ , and I could tell I’d won no friend at all ….by way his franchise ideas were super Actualy after went and had a beer or two and was happy So as said Malcolm has a super salesman as an advisor , but not a financial wiz
,
ABC, 7, 9, and 10 are all playing it live. So you could just record one of those channels if you want a full live recording, instead of just highlights.
Which makes it 1am WA Time -p oh the benefits of living in WA, and if there WASN’T Daylight Savings it would start at Midnight
Ron
I think Malcolm needs more than a salesman (even if it’s a super one). Besides he hasn’t got himself a policy to sell yet has he?
I’m always happy after a beer or 2 too
OBAMA IS LEAVING THE BUILDING
Vera
“Besides he hasn’t got himself a policy to sell yet has he?”
nah policy free zone there
.
by th way everyone seems a bit twitchy tonite , is an event happin of importance in World , or is it just everyones so thrilled at Ruddys cancer bit with Lance Armstrong
GP, i know a little about the American/Mexico border probs, i stayed in San Ysidro right on the border for a while, there was border jumpers every night, Australia doesnt have that problem, we get a few stragglers via the sea, no comparison mate, our worse problem are those who come legitimately via the airport and forget to go home, last i heard it’s about 50,000 at any given time, it makes the handful of boat people look a bit of a flea bite in comparison.
For anyone watching the Inauguration, the latest Big Picture blog at the Boston Globe website site is well worth having a look at: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/
(’tis a fairly bandwidth heavy site mind you, if anyone’s using a 56K modem or similar)
(The Big Picture is one of my absolute must visit websites – some amazing photojournalism on display there)
cheers,
Yeah, but those people are from the UK or New Zealand, which is different.
Some like this ‘coronation’ stuff US style , I like our australian way of changing Leaders…….in 10 minutes on TV , from defeted PM to th winning PM , and its done
In US we will hav a week of feel good words in a speech , of ‘change’ , of ‘new directons & emphasis’ , of renewed US moral authority …and fine sentaments they’ll be , and deliverd orotorialy as well making intelectuals swoon and that will enough for them , and always has been here ……but for mine , i await concrete results and far more than just a non Bush president cause any , any Democrat was gonna provide that anyway
The P.M. isn’t the Head of State, or Head of the Defense force.
WHAT a President that can make a speech, and who is HIMSELF an intellectual! NO WAY we can’t have that.
When Australia is as powerful a nation as the U.S., THEN your criticisms may have a basis in reality.
In WW@ , Vietnam , iraq wars our PM is in charge , so don’t play pedantics with me about a GG’s technicol constitution poers , deel with reality….but then what reely got you pesky is like our aussie way of power change , perhaps you like the US coronation razmataz , but certainly intelectuals lov superficial pretty liberal words from anyone but its fluff without acton
and US power is irelevant , its a ’show’ to showoff themselves showon , just like those English coronations of pomp , but if it makes you giddy , you’re easily pleased
The P.M. isn’t the Head of State, or Head of the Defense force.
I copied our quote , then decided it was irelevent , but forgot it was in ‘paste’ …so you see showon ….you ended up in ‘paste’ , rather fitting
Well, there it is. Cheese on toast in Dallas for the Bushes tonight. Eight inaugural balls for the Obamas.
only one way to go now and thats up, Bush hit the pits so anyone else has got to be an improvement, i wish Obama well and if he can do even a fraction of the promise he shows then thats a huge plus, he seems to have the ability to unite people behind him and that can only be a big step forward, the only concern is that for some strange reason the Americans seem to assassinate the presidents that show charisma, Bush was never in any real danger.
I thought it was a non-event and remarkably boring at times considering the built-up expectations surrounding Mr Obama.
Janet is as good as ever:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/seduced_by_the_saint/
Generic Person
Posted Wednesday, January 21, 2009 at 12:19 am | Permalink
No 219
Said: “Judith, the best example of the results of poor border protection is the United States. I need not say more.”
If it wasn’t for the illegal Mexicans the USA agricultural industry would have little labor, further the Mexicans seem to be the only sane group there. It has always seemed to me a little strange that there is free movement of capital and goods and restrictions on the movement of labor. The Europeans have the sense to allow free movement of all three plus operate their common economic zone under one currency.
That aside, the USA waste far more than us on “boarder protection”, and they have all the nonsense we have, the difference is they have land boarder.
Time can do strange things, white USA waged war and stole a lot of Mexico, now it looks as if the Mexicans are going to claim the place back with immigration both legal and illegal. Whites now being the largest minority in many states.
MY bet GP is your a WASP and the changes time bring would upset you greatly, however inequality is unstable and it does not last forever.
The markets dont think Obi can walk on water. On his day, Dow Jones went down 332 pts, a whopping 4% to 7949.09 and NASDAQ by 5.8%. dont cry for me my superannuation.
GP, if you were so bored why did you continue watching? you only have yourself to blame mate, as for Janet’s scribblings i saw that item in the Australian and decided to give it a miss, i’ve already had my shower this morning and i’m afraid the vitriol this lady and her compatriots seem to spew out makes me feel rather dirty, just as if i was sloshing around in a bog.
Janet’s really sucking hard on those sour grapes isn’t she? As GP says, that’s as good as she ever gets. Yet another diatribe about the liberal media giving Obama and Rudd a free pass when they hounded that poor man Howie into his political grave. She should stop getting her columns from Sarah Palin’s interviews.
No 247
It is ironic that you accuse Janet of spewing vitriol given that it is typically the left which leave bilious comments to her articles.
Janet made some ok points about the media’s inability to separate fact from opinion. The MSM do want to be players in their own right, and lots of us are sick of their inability to simply give us the facts!
However:
- you always run the risk of looking like a sore loser when you raise this just after your own “side” has lost.
- in view of all the symbolic overtones of today (which, to be fair, Janet did acknowledge), today was probably not the right day for this kind of article about Obama.
GP, dunno who leaves comment bilious or otherwise, like most sensible people after giving someone a fair go and finding they’re rather poisonous and nasty i tend to avoid them like the bubonic plague, Akerman falls in that catagory as well, they say only the good die young, what i wouldnt give for another Matt Price or someone of his ilk who could sit on the fence, be even handed and say it like it is, we dont need left wing or right wing journos, i yearn for real honest journo’s who take pride in their craft—saying that i wouldnt give up red Kerry for worlds, it’s the pointed pixie ears and impish smile before he goes for the kill that sucks me in.
The liberal media don’t mind giving Labor state governments in NSW, WA and now Victoria stick when they deserve it. JA is fantasizing about her enemies as much as about her heroes.
The whole description “liberal media” is a throwback to the culture wars. There are three centre/left papers in Australia (SMH, Age, Canberra Times) and all the rest are right wing, the Oz and West Australian absurdly so. Would JA prefer no opposing POV?
For that matter, why did we have “culture wars” in the first place? I think it was to placate the intellectual insecurity of the right wing hacks. “Listen to me, I’m right!!!” is their real inner motive. Many of their fiercest warriors were former left wingers in their younger days, who turned far right after the end of the cold war. Guess it was easier than admittintg they were wrong. Paul Norton explained it better than me:
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=1110
Quite amusing to see the list of names who were former left-wingers – Padraic P. McGuinness, Keith Windschuttle, Piers Akerman, Ross Terrill, Bob Catley, Bettina Arndt, Michael Thompson, Christopher Pearson, Michael Duffy. Albrechtsen has been consistently right-wing though.
Of course, the solution to these peopel is ignore them. Hence I comment here but don’t click on their websites. I’ve been Shanahan-free for some time now
Socrates
Andrew Bolt was a Labor Party adviser. Who says people don’t change?
Dio
Then you can add him to the list of changelings in Norton’s article.
Bolt only further proves the point: these people have changed from extreme left to extreme right. The only thing that has remained constant is their extremism. Hence their inability to recognise other viewpoints and their constant characterising of alternative views to their own as extreme. Its because they MUST BE RIGHT!
Dio, another doctor in today’s print section of letters to the editor, this time lauding the Marge and calling for the RAH to be bulldozed, says the elite specialists there are an all male club, was a male doc who wrote it too, dr. Patrick O’leary, next door always brings me the letter and crosswords sections from his copy because i refuse to buy it nowadays, i provide him with coffee and biccies in return.
Socrates, i find if after a few tries a journo pss’s me off i avoid reading them, it’s so much better for the blood pressure, i’ve never bothered with Bolt, on the Insiders he comes across as a smug self opinionated twit, a boring one at that with his plummy accent, why bother, i’d love a wide range of opinions but honest opinions, i know i’m biased but i can and have had to curb that when talking to some of the folks i’ve had to mix with over time.
Judith
Yes Bolt’s accent is a give away and the pretentiousness speaks of the intellectual insecurity I referred to. Serious intellectuals don’t need to bother. My best lecturer in philosophy was a brilliant Cambridge educated professor who spoke modestly with hardly any accent and wandered around university in jeans.
Judith
O’Leary appears to be a social worker with a PhD. He seems to have a few chips on his shoulder about the Royals and medical profession. Don’t think he advanced his cause with that silly letter. What was that crap about a “new breed of doctors”? They’ll just be all the RAH doctors.
i’ve found that also Socrates, one of the brainiest people i know Lynn Arnold, who was born with a very silver spoon in his mouth never bothered to put on side, he thought nothing of wiping a grubby brats dirty face while i made coffee, he’s the best premier Sth Aust ever lost, he inherited the poison chalice from the state bank fiasco, still it was some of the world’s poorest children’s gain, he went on to better things.
Dio, i just thought it was interesting he doesnt say what he’s a doctor of and those doctorates can be confusing, why do they call a top specialist Mr instead of doctor?
Barnaby’s considering Flynn:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/21/2471041.htm?section=justin
Joyce is a fool if he lets Howard whisper in his ear and pull his strings, this wasnt on the horizon untill he had a couple of dinners with Howard then he comes out all guns blazing aimed at Costello and the idea of taking over the nationals, actually i’m a bit disappointed, i rather liked Joyce and thought he was his own man, he’d make a great independant, now rather than a voice of difference he’ll just become another party hack, hmmm i wonder what Howard’s agenda is, is it to get to quieten a rebel and smother him in the fold, or is it to lead a revolution and stir the pot.
Judith
Technically, most medical doctors shouldn’t be called doctors as they don’t have a doctorate in anything (most have a bachelor in medicine and surgery). It’s a courtesy title.
A few medical doctors have a doctorate in medicine or philosophy (me for eg). They are “real” doctors.
In the olden days, physicians wouldn’t touch their patients-almost literally- and if they needed a procedure done they would get a barber to do the operation. The barber-surgeons were looked down on as they weren’t doctors. With time, the barber-surgeons became full-time surgeons and had medical training. But surgeons still keep the title Mr instead of Dr as a tradition relating to the original barber-surgeons. It’s dying out a bit now and mainly only old-fashioned surgeons keep the title “Mr”.
The Nats should never have lost Flynn in 2007, thankfully BJ will win it back for them in 2010.
As long the LNP doesn’t come into federal politics and, Joyce will definately win Flynn for the National Party next year.
Don’t miss the New Zealand Herald’s take on the latest Newspoll result.
Peter Costello as Opposition Leader and Barnaby Joyce as National Party leader is the dream team.
The dream team for Labor maybe.
People keep underestimating Costello. Deep down inside Labor is scared of Costello. Costello has a perfect record on his CV. Not a single recession under his watch and he wiped out $96 billion Labor debt from Keating. If the economy is bad, more Australians will want Costello as PM.
Glen, you can’t lose something you never had. Flynn was a new seat in 2007, it had a notional 7% Nats margin. They didn’t hold it though, so they didn’t lose it.
I’m surprised BJ wants to leave the Senate, I thought he valued his role there, rather than be a lower house coalition lapdog.
I doubt it. Maybe as Treasurer again, but not PM.
does Bree sound rather familiar??
who the heck is this Greg Ansley? has anyone else seen his headlines about OZ?
Rudd struggles with the weight of the world.
Australia the not so lucky country.
summer sinks its fangs into Australia.
unions and government head for a showdown over wage claim.
i’m getting the impression he doesnt like Rudd or us.
Costello is poison. People may have respected what he did as Treasurer but at no point did they want him anywhere near the primer ministership. That won’t change.
Joyce is just a fool. Plain and simple.
You can tell he’s jealous that his right-wing government has no clue how to get New Zealand out of recession and is trying to bring us down to make himself feel better.
“Costello has a perfect record on his CV.”
ROTFL This was the man who cobbled together a $10 billion “Murray rescue package” without consulting his own treasury. Perhaps by perfect record you mean he never took a courageous decision? Even the GST was pushed through by Howard more than Cossie, with Nick Minchin overseeing the appallingly badly drafted legislation and admin arrangements.
Itep @ 271
You sound very worried about Costello coming to the leadership.
No one’s worried about Costello coming to the leadership, except Turnbull.
Turnbull is a lame-duck. Even Nelson was better.
Please, Mr. Costello, Mr. Workchoices sir, take over the leadership.
The big misconception is that people will blame Labor for the GFC. I just don’t believe that will happen. Why would they?
oh please
On the contrary, why wouldn’t they? Things are bad and they’re in power.
Obviously, it’s not actually their fault and I don’t believe most Australians think that way, but I think some will.
After one term of poor government from Dudd, I think Australians won’t mind workchoices, they will ONLY see Peter Costello’s strong economic management of nearly 12 years.
10% unemployment equals a 10% swing to the Coalition in 2010.
hahahahahahahaha, oh it’s comedy hour!
Are you sure your not Samantha ?
Welcome back Tabitha. We’ve missed you.
i thought she sounded familiar, now the site has its resident clown back lol.
Dyno
#250
“Janet made some ok points about the media’s inability to separate fact from opinion. The MSM do want to be players in their own right, and lots of us are sick of their inability to simply give us the facts! However ……..today was probably not the right day for this kind of article about Obama.”
Dyno , both you and Generic Person made some complementary coments about Janet’s article , so for th first time in over a year I had a gander , but surprisingly did it a bit diferent , copy pasted it , then i put Howard’s name in place of Obama’s ….. yep Howard for Obama , and then Keating’s name in place of Bushs
Now picture th year is Jan 1997 this ‘re ron-ed’ article is written by a ‘lefty’ person strongly critisising “th Australian’s” newspapers fawning uncritical treatment of John Howard …compared to ‘th Australians’ relentless sniping critical attitude to Keating
I find this ‘re-roned’ article is a valid criticism of th MSN th Australian papers biased uncritical treatment of th new Howard PM vs there biased criticol treatmetn of th defeated PM Keating
Then I believe going then bak to th “un re-roned” Janet article it has surprising substanse validness for exactly th same reasons as th re-roned one
And so it is with th liberal progresive elitist US Media who hav been and will always be uncriticaly biased in favor of Obama in th same way th “right” orientated ‘Australan’ newspaper was uncriticaly biased for howard yet criticaly biased against Rudd
Obviouslt there is th australians equivalent in US , like Fox News & some print papers …but th balanse in our USA between liberal and/or progresive left and th right is I feel more to left than right where it counts here , whereas in oz th weighting is strongly to th right , except Fairfax mainly except smh editorialy at electon times So Obama has had a free adulation like uncrticl ride and will not continue to get it for whole 4 years Trick is to separate positive spin of him , from th positive actions he’s taken that all thinkng people actualy hopes he takes
Lots of people on both th ‘left’ and right’ , usualy th intelectual sets , ar so one eyed they only tink th other side has biased Meddia and biased reporters , nonsense I say In fact this over biaseness uncriticaly goes down to posters as well , so just as well i’m only unbiased person here otherwise who wuld know of this hypacracys
At hart of Media deterioation is my de news theorys , ‘news’ is rarely separately reported any more…as facts of events or of statements made by pollies …with ‘comentariats & opinion writers separaetley giving there objectiv views on that…or there biased unobjectiv views for that matters We hav now a closing of th barriers between ‘news’ and ‘opinion’…with de news-ing of ‘news’ re-writen as/’presented’ as with th opinion makers biased slanted ideas
So on this day of “change yes we can” there is no damn change at alls between Howard and Obama reely …… betwen how there rusted on Media groups and rustd on suporters hav closed uncriticol minds vs partisen Ruddy and Howie suporters natural pushing there man knowing he ain’t 100% perfect but better than th other mob and so some of marky marky last nite was fine in principal and some wasn’t in reelity
And so I return to oiliness , Obama he with orororial skills perhaps US’s best ever . whose words ar feel good …even inspiring for some and for all elitist intelectuals , and reely 100% uncriticly adored by liberal Media….. yet th oiliness is in th words th nuances & when pressed for detail & practicalitie Surprising when one critisises this man on lacking core left policys th rusted ons ar so indignant at my heresy to actualy even criticse as if he is a messiah…but can never rebut th policy substanse of th criticisms , and thats th danger of Obama , traeting as uncritisable god like he’s just a man Sensible non rusted on people must hope Obama is 100% successful in reel repeat reel positive outcomes in US and in FA that ar concrete as do I , why wuldn’t one anyway except a moron
….but reel my fear is th illusion myth getting created , th fairy floss intelectual Media & bloger set will fawn him measiahia like even where/if he is failing in an area….but it won’t stop reasonable criticism I hav to say unrepentatly , nor th false indignation in return So Dyno there were some merit in Janets article but she also doesn’t folow her own advice regularly , and toaday wasn’t th day for her to civilisably do so …only th uncivilissd can get away with that
Rusted on coalition supporters and those who live in place of very limited communication systems.
I refuse to engage the purile name callers.
so I’ve lost another friend
Maybe people should ask Costello if it was a “last resort” when he delivered a deficit budget in 2002.
Or Maybe if he agrees with Ross Gittens in 2005.
“Peter Costello may yet make an excellent prime minister, but he couldn’t hold down a job as a teacher of high school economics. Ask him how fiscal policy works and he confidently gives you the wrong answer.”
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Ross-Gittins/Will-Costellos-budget-force-Reserves-hand/2005/05/13/1115843370320.html
Costello was an awefull treasurer.
Ronster
What an absolute crock. The media gave Georgie Boy a free pass over almost every crappy, illegal decision he made with unquestioning loyalty. It was only after Katrina that they woke up to themselves.
The media completely failed on the Iraq invasion, WMD, torture, illegal wiretaps (they sat on that one for a year), rendition, political witch-hunts, a completely politicised DOJ etc etc.
Each disaster had to be rammed down their throats until they could no longer ignore them. There were a few liberal journos who dissented but the MSM in the US was completely in the Administrations pocket for 6 years.
Colbert bucketed David Gregory for it in an interview yesterday.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
They’re always going to go vote for the Coalition. I’m talking about a subset of swinging voters. Though they could easily be cancelled out by others who think that in the face of a global depression the government’s doing a good job.
The World is facing a Recession – not a Depression.
Any definition of Depression you care to use does not fit what is happening now.
ruawake
I thought a Recession is when you lose your job and a Depression is when I lose my job.
I thought this blog had moved on from these juvenile names
Diog
I don’t have a job, officially inspected and detected, reviewed and Job Assesed little me. DSP is my fate. Although don’t mess with me if you park in a disabled parking space without a sticker.
Although it was during the last global recession that Costello changed the method of determining eligability for DSP.
The year he sent the budget into deficit.
I doubt you will lose your job, unless your union decides you should be struck off.
“Former President Bush”, how sweet the sound?
i hate to point this out. Obama is potus no:44, a double 4. It is not a good omen.
especially if you are potus no:43
Albert
very sweet indeed
Finns, you are wRONg again! Number 44 is quite auspicious in numerology.
Sums Obama up perfectly! He’s going to win those two Wars and fix the GFC.
http://www.decoz.com/Double-digitNumbers.htm
Is 44 Chinese?
4 = si = death in Mandarin. Double 4 = Double death.
Diog baby, just remember you are always wRONg, even when you are right. We hold this truth to be self-evident, that you have not been created equal.
Albert @ 298
Hate to spoil your day but former presidents conventionally still get addressed as Mr President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._President_(title)
btw why did Aretha Franklin sing a version of God Save the Queen in drag?
Coz she can.
An idea for those saying the Government’s pre-christmas spending was misplaced and should have been placed into projects.
I believe the Government has moved to ensure that the retail sector and the hospitality sector were able to clear the christmas season while being clear that it was developing a further plan for projects and we have seen some announcements in particular the $300M for local government.
Some people might mock this as painting swiming pools but in reality many of our local governments would have used that money for infrastructure improvements.
I would expect the Government to use the up coming budget to announce spending programs also the Government has said that it may need a second package.
This poll looks more normal than the run of massive ALP leads we have become use too.
wRONg,wRONg,wRONg and boring
As an in joke or a sly dig at first, perhaps it was funny. The thing is the rest of us got tired of it months ago, yet we have to read it day after day.
Truly boring now
Diog
What now oilsiness is in power you want to rewire history as well , you suporting that liberal progresive elitist US Media nonsense they paddle , and th uncritisisable prophet , Obama ..well its reality time now and I want to see results
To re-quote your words “I am need of therapy” , and that you ar….
and even Mrs diog said it all
“Diog baby, just remember you are always wRONg, even when you are right “
How times have changed.
From:
The inauguration was a “remarkable moment in the history of the United States and the history of the world,” Mr Turnbull said.
” “Barack Obama says America is ready to lead, while the world is ready to listen to Barack Obama, to look to him for the vision that he is offering the world,” Mr Turnbull told reporters in Sydney.”
Anyone remember:
“If I were running al Qaeda in Iraq, I would put a circle around March 2008, and pray, as many times as possible, for a victory not only for Obama, but also for the Democrats.”
Thank goodness that sad little man lost his seat.
SNIP: Personal attack deleted – The Management.
While I have the knife out – Bree @ 280, “Dudd” is on a blacklist of stoopid insults that aren’t allowed here.
ruawake
That was probably the lowest thing Howard said in a career liberally sprinkled with lowlights. Ranks up there with his Hansonesque “We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come.”
i still have a mind boggle over what Australian/American relations would be now if Howard won the election, just how could our diplomats possibly gloss over that?
Diog my lowest Howard moment.
“”Prime Minister, was the government contacted by the major Australian producer of ethanol or by any representative of his company or the Industry Association before its decision to impose fuel excise on ethanol? ”
“Speaking for myself, I did not personally have any discussions, from recollection, with any of them.”
John Howard had met on 1 August the head of Manildra Group [Dick Honan], which makes 87 per cent of our ethanol, and they discussed how to help the Australian ethanol industry.
Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Official Record of Meeting, 1 August 2002
He lied to Parliament – and got away with it.
ruawake @ 315, being able to quote a time and place when Honest John lied is old hat – the real challenge is to spot a time and place when he spoke the truth without a hidden agenda. Anyone up for the challenge?
Tom
Spam Box
In due course , all will be revealed that ‘wRONg” is now actualy used in quite distinguished politcal circles , but like Keating to Hewson ….geez I don’t want to rush it
However in meantime , where ar your contributions to this Thread , and use that skip button
Tom
Sorry I can’t find an occasion when that occurred. Maybe Glen or GP can answer, but to the best of my memory his recollection was fuzzy, he wasn’t told, he was taken out of context etc. etc.
Senator Abetz was correct in his description, but of course he never said it.
“To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society’s ills on the West – know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wRONg side of history; but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist”
- President Obama, 21 jan 2009.
Amigo, you are RIGHT.
and amigo FINNS
there is more….now actualy used in quite distinguished politcal circles in oz WITH th capitals in th right as well …actualy spelt wRONg … but Spam box like hewson can wait abit to see that….its politcal parlance so to speak , and making diog thrilled
Oh I remember ruawake, I’m sure many others do too
That nice Mr Rudd for one, but more importantly, Ms Gillard or Mr Tanner
I’m thinking some “young hot shot” that works in Rudd’s office might remember it as well
I’m sure they all remember it well
Ruawake, perhaps you are thinking of the reported comment by Senator Brandis regarding a certain untruthful specimen of Rattus rattus? But of course he never said it.
Diog #313 “ruawake That was probably the lowest thing Howard said in a career liberally sprinkled with lowlights”
“the lowest thing” ? it wuldn’t rate in top 100 of ‘lowest’ , diplomaticaly partisen foolish is another matter
What you arr eely upet about is not th diplomacy gross gafe , but howard named Obama …well that was just a statistical coincidence in time , in March 2008 th last of th big decisive Democrat primarys (Texas) had been run & Hillary won it but not by enough to statistically ever overtake Obama for th Democrat Nomineeship , that’s why Obama’s name was used by Howard , Obama’s lead was then reely unasailable
Had th statistical race been in reverse with Hillary with an unassailable lead Howard wuld hav said “Hillary Clinton and th Democrats” Wuld you hav then been sop upset ? …perhaps not
So howards coments reely were directed FOR th Republicons electoral benfit AGAINST th Democrats …and naturally consequentley Howard added th statistical unassailable Democrat Primary race Nominee leader (being Obama) in his biased comments
It was not a slight against Obama as much as against th whole Democrat Party …a wrong biased intrusion by an aussie PM partisienly into US elections…and a diplomatic blunder
But that was fixable anyway had howard been re- elected , like lets not kid ourselves Leaders all like each other , and they all know who dislikes who they ar smart (some) .. but business is business and it doen’t stop them all still doing diplamatic businees , and howard and Obama wuld hav
Alsoo Beasley in 2004 privatly was baracking for Democrat john Kerry against Bush , probably thought GWB was a buffoon as well , just not foolish diplamaticly enough to say so publicley So Howards coment was not th lowest Howard coment by a long way…except to those over sensitive Obama suportrs
How many people went to George Bush’s auguration anyone know?
I did marky marky…no one else was there
Ron
Actually, Howard could have substituted the name of any politician, liberal or otherwise (except perhaps for Hamas) and I would have been just as disgusted.
Fall asleep Ron?
chavez
‘adios senor bush’
in th fisrst 10 seconds , as soon as that GWB cheesy smile emerged , marky marky
diog , why did you hav to post again , after i disgreed with points why your “Diog #313 “ruawake That was probably the lowest thing Howard said in a career liberally sprinkled with lowlights” …was not Howards th lowest thing said
so in 2007 Australian election , GWB had of said ;
“If I were running al Qaeda in Iraq, I would put a circle around November 2008, and pray, as many times as possible, for a victory not only for Rudd , but also for the Labor Party.”
and that wuld be th lowest thing GWB had ever said No , I’ve said why Howard was wrong partisiemly and diplomaticaly , but worse has/had been said by howard , not th lowest thing said diog …now whilst you ar ….you know what , hav a chardy or quality beer , it wasn’t earth shatering , children overboard comments were as an exampel
Can someone tell me why Rudd awarded a pay rise to some members of his office then asked the general populace to show wage restraint? Surely he must have known this would look bad if it leaked.
What I also want to know is who leaked the details of Rudd’s office workers’ pay packets?
we know th rationale point used …market place competitiveness , doesn’t convinse me so well it shows Rudd is not perfect , he made a blue …no excuses
So the Rudd government is telling employers to minimise sackings but at its own Australian Taxation office it just shred 2OO staff.
Obama’s chief of staff was the head of Freddie Mac in 2001 just when massive accounting fraud occurred. Also believes in further deregulation.
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/19749
I must say though that article by Steve Lewis does not say when the bonuses were given. The clowns posting on that blog are feral. You’d think Rudd had shot his grandmother.
Actually missed a zero it is actually 2000 staff.
Just one point though marky, 200 may be minimal sackings. ‘Minimise’ doesn’t mean no sackings.
Evolution, natural selection right before our eyes. Darwin was RIGHT, again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7840404.stm
As i stated last night only one way of this crisis and that is for our Governments to create jobs and again own and run businesses again. That is kind of how we got out of the last crisis in the 1930’s. Simply giving money to people will not work and believing that the profit motive which is built around individualism and greed will not work, the private sector is not about jobs but making as much money as possible.
Marky Marky ,
yes quite corect there…..another is ex Wal Mart chief who actualy headed his econamic team said in response to a strike by 5.50 an hour workers
‘Wal-Mart’s critics are the real threat: the “efforts to get Wal-Mart to raise its wages and benefits” are creating “collateral damage” that is “way too enormous and damaging to working people and the economy … for me to sit by idly and sing Kum Ba Ya in the interests of progressive harmony”.
spoken like a true anti unionist …a deciple like many on his tean of Friedman ,
ie econamic rationalism …..GFC has forsed Keynesan now , but for how long
Winston suggested
Winston, my dear boi, you can’t spoil anything for me today… whereas for you, I surmise, this day has been your Room 101.
Gary, Howard bought in bonuses for heads of staff so it could have been a hangover from that early in the piece,no time frame was mentioned, Lewis also went on about some of the staff driving petrol guzzlers, the staff are not allowed to use government cars so i would take it their vehicles are their personal cars, i cant see any boss telling his workers what car to buy unless he’s paying for it, another thing Lewis forgot to mention was that Rudd froze pollies pay last year among hand wringing and wailing from the libs, particularly Abbott and now he’s forcasting the same thing this year.
Ron the problem about wage restraint, wage cuts and wage reductions is that it is fueling the economic problems. The less money in the economy the less hope their is for the economic crisis to be reversed. In 1930’s these economists thought the same way and actually a Preimers Plan in 1931 decided to slash all government expenditure, wages, salaries and pensions by 20 % making the situation much worse. Government borrowing was also halted.
One thing i will say at least we have three world western leaders who have a brain at least in power. Rudd, Obama and Brown, if the conservatives were in power who knows what the twits would do.
Re Aretha Franklin at the inauguration. She sang the patriotic hymn “America”, also known as “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee”. It is one of the several US anthems. The melody is the same as “God Save the Queen”. The lyrics were written early in the 19th century and there is some confusion as to whether athe lyricist knew the tune was the British royal anthem. God Save The Queen wasn’t the British national anthem at the time so wasn’t as well known.
would the real Obama please stand up, it is amazing.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24942170-5006301,00.html
341 – you make some very good points Judith. I don’t think Steve is a fan of Rudd.
Judith, Feel sorry for you South Australians having to put up with one daily newspaper.
And it is a Murdoch paper. This is the typical dull boring rubbish that he produces.
Rupert Murdoch Kevin Rudds assistant, telling him what to do.
I think that information is in the public domain.
I tell you what marky, with an assistant like that who needs enemies.
Wikipedia points out re the tune of “God Save The Queen”:
Why can’t u edit your own comments here?
“It is one of the several US anthems. The melody is the same as “God Save the Queen”. The lyrics were written early in the 19th century and there is some confusion as to whether athe lyricist knew the tune was the British royal anthem”
Given th timing in early 19 th century , it would be a long bow to think it was a
co insidence…th same melodies Also surprised it still has currency , like people usualy like uniqueness of there anthem
We do not elect Rupert but he runs this country- 70 percent of all newspaper coverage with a monopoly of newspaper coverage in Tasmania, South Australia and Queensland. His company has significant ownership elsewhere. Do as i say or else.
Time we had more diversity in the media, but when?
Marky Marky
“Ron the problem about wage restraint, wage cuts and wage reductions is that it is fueling the economic problems. The less money in the economy the less hope their is for the economic crisis to be reversed”
Well marky marky , us centrist Keynes type believers reckon pump primin is always th answer in downturns , and if you need to go in deficit its no big deal , get th infrasrastucture etc spending going and “create” to make up for slack in private sector investments then …seeing in a full econamic cycle surplus’s should be attainable in growth periods
Marky, i never read the rag, i cancelled out during the election when they assassinated Nicole Corne’s charactor casting her as a brainless bimbo, i’ve got a deal going with the bloke next door, he gives me the letters to the editor page and cryptic crosswords after he’s read it and i’ll provide coffee and biccies, now and again i’ll send over some pea and ham soup or meatloaf etc, i do a bit of bulk cooking occasionally, i never did learn to cook for two so eldest daughters family round the corner gets a respite from cooking as well.
As an incentive not to post drunk?
That was in reply to Albert Ross at 350.
Marky, i do buy the sunday mail, my good pal is the head crime reporter there, i’ve known him since he was a cub reporter 30 years ago so i have to stay loyal to him, besides the tv book is useful.
Good to see Judith, i encourage people to not buy it, it only encourages him and increases his strength.
Ron, this is all before recorded music. My memory was that the lyrics were written to a piece of German music which turned out to be the same music the British knew as God Save the King. There were no national anthems in those days, no visiting international dignitaries, no international sport, no recorded music, lots of hymn music floating around that new lyrics could be written for and no lawyers enforcing copyright on sheet music. I don’t think it’s a long bow to claim coincidence.
But a music historian would know better. My quick hunt around the web produced a variety of answers.
Antony , thanks for that info , and assume many attempts hav been made over th years to see why th lyricist picked that particular German tune
Also imagine th first time , British and US dignatories were at a ceremony unknowing of th same tune for both anthems , there may hav been some unease , or even red faces
Jeez Fulvio I am a tee-totaller.
However, Special Minister of State John Faulkner last night defended the special “top-up” payments.
He said: “Approval of personal staff salaries above the band is a mechanism available to Governments and Oppositions … and should be used in exceptional circumstances.”
that sounds quite a logicol and reasonable statement reely , but its still incorect
.
“Jeez Fulvio I am a tee-totaller.”
well I believe you….sort of
Ron, I honestly enjoy your contributions but I kindly suggest that you install a spell-checker add-on to your browser.
I was just trying to suggest an answer your question Albert, not make a value judgment of your excellent posts!!
While I agree it can be frustrating not to be able to correct obvious grammatical/spelling errors, it does prevent the more devious amongst us from changing the meaning or context of what has previously been said, in a moment of madness or otherwise.
It also prevents a later post appearing irrelevant or nonsensical due to the editing of the post it is responding to.
Ultimately, the rules probably amount to 1, not posting anything you might later regret, 2. not posting after drinking, and 3. using a spell checker or dictionary.
Unless of course you are Ron, in which case rule 3 does not apply.
Just kidding Ron.
“2. not posting after drinking”
this is th rule I may be flaunting…..and naughtily
g’night everyone, this little rubber ducky’s got a busy day coming up, cya in the morning.
Well at least we may finally have an answer for Ron’s consistently barely-indecipherable postings!
Hillary Clinton has just been confirmed by the Senate at 94-2 as the SOS.
Go, Hill go and save the Obama Admin from falling flat on its face on FA.
About “God Save the Queen” tune. i can understand the Royals of Europe using the tune, as they are all come from the same inter-breeding cesspool and genepool.
But why sang this tune yesterday, at such an important occasion. Something that has linked back to the former colonial yoke. What about something more stirring and American like:
“With God on Our Side”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qzsTdRTV90
Yes, there are laws to abide even with God on your side.
Entirely a matter of self defence. As my age has increased my tolerance for alcohol has decreased and it’s now at the point where if I have a couple of beers or have wine with dinner I feel totally RS the next day. If anybody has a work around for this TELL ME!
Martin Hamilton Smith has come up with a new pie in the sky idea, as if he could pull this off plus needing a 7% swing against labor.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24946750-5006301,00.html
Finns
I really think you should go see a doctor regarding your Hilary itch,maybe there is virtual calamine lotion available.
You really cant stop it can you,even if you wanted to
When are you going to comment on today’s market results Finn?
Maybe they do think Obi can walk on water.
I know you have said that you really hope Obama does well but, in many of your comments on this I can’t help feeling there’s a deep down desire on your part to see Obama crash and burn.
Finnigan,
The point about “With God on Our Side” and the song and melody from which it may have derived from “The Patriot Game” are both ironic and questioning in sentiment. Not the average American’s long suit.
Does anyone else feel as I do about this heading in the OZ?
“Swan admits plan to prop up business”
The word “admit” to me has guilt overtones. You admit a wrong doing to police or to your parents. “Ok, I admit I have hidden this plan from you and you’ve found me out.”
Given that Tanner had already disclosed the idea, surely a better word would have been “confirmed”. A more positive, stronger image is portrayed. Then again we are talking about the OZ.
Sky Noos likes to use “admit” as well.
Caroline Kennedy bails out of New York senate race.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/nyregion/22caroline.html?_r=1
#375 GB,
How many times must a man posts,
before they really get it,
yes n’ how many times that “he is not a messiah, just a naughty boy”,
and a naughty boy requires constantly watch and spanking.
The answer my friend (amigo?), is passing in the wind,
The answer is passing in the wind.
#374, Gus, no no, yes yes. i do need a bit of the Obi oiliness to ease my itch.
i heard somewhere that there could be legal challenge to the legitimacy of Obi as a POTUS because the Chief Justice John Roberts has stuffed up the oath of office. A conservative conspiracy?
Roberts:”I Barack Hussein Obama”
Obama: “I Barack”
Roberts: “do solemnly swear.”
Obama: “I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear”
Roberts: “That I will execute the office of president to the United States faithfully…
Obama: “that I will execute…”
Roberts: “faithfully execute the office of president of the United States…”
Obama: “The office of president of the United States faithfully…”
Robert: “and will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Obama: “and will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Roberts: “So help you God?”
Obama: “So help me God.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2168608/posts
He already retook the oath
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/obama-retakes-oath-of-office-20090122-7nab.html
Gary since when has the OZ been careful about using a proper headline when theres a more negative one to labor that can be installed? c’mon, cant you remember before the election, Shanahans breathless headline that Howard was catching up on Rudd–there was a 1% movement in the polls.
Newspoll got it wrong in 07. On election day in 07, there was only a 1.5% difference between Labor and the Coalition on the primary vote. So if Labor was dead even with the Coalition on the primary, then the Coalition would have retained most of their Queensland electorates and then WA would have saved them.
Temporary Tax cuts:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24947985-2702,00.html
I hope the plan is to double the tax free threshold for 1 year, back dated to January 1st.
Frankly my dear, are you serious!!!!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/frankly-sartors-the-best-option/2009/01/21/1232471392453.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
I was just going to puke over the writer of this article, until I saw it was La Divine. It’s alright then, she was just trying to help the ALP to win the next election. She’s kosha.
Phew, it got me worried for a moment. Frank Sartor? What’s next, Tony “People Skill” Abbott for PM?
There’s an old crude saying, which I won’t fully say here, that covers this type of argument – If my aunty had ….. she’d be my uncle.
It really is a useless exercise.
Now here is a case highlighting the opposition’s tactic of finding fault no matter what action the government takes.
When Rudd proposed taking Japan to the high court over whaling the Libs cried that this shouldn’t be done. Now that Rudd is saying diplomacy first we get this response.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24948189-5001028,00.html
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. They are a joke.
Looks like “The Snails” holiday push for an early Qld election has been for nought.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24947582-952,00.html
Greg Hunt is getting his knickers in a knot over the McArthur River Mine, maybe he needs to be reminded that it was Ian Campbell who origanally approved the mine.
It was Campbell’s decision that was succesfully appealed in the Federal Court.
Or maybe it was John Howard’s idea.
PM intervenes in McArthur River dispute
“JOHN HOWARD: I want this project to go ahead, or the expansion of it to go ahead because it will be very good for the Territory and very good for the Country.”
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1755750.htm
Hunt is a dill.
Gary
Wait for the Snail headline,
“Bligh backflips on early election due to Global Financial Swindle and Job Losses.”
GB 387
I suppose the Oz will say that Bligh “has admitted she will wait out her full term, and is not prepared to face the people before then”.
389 & 390 – Both are real possibilities.
In the absence of Boerwar, I need to keep his spirit alive.
More good news for the Pine Bark Beetles. The Antarctica is warming after all. They have another habitat to infest. That 5% Rudd/ Wong CO2 reduction will make all the difference.
But it’s not all good news for the Beetles. They might need to shift inland by the end of the century. Still, a seaside house will be cheap until it’s underwater.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24946666-11949,00.html
Simon Jackman on the retaken oath.
http://jackman.stanford.edu/blog/?p=1087
ruawake
Hunt is a dill.
so whats new lol.
Judith
Hunt is lucky that parliament is not sitting, it was John Howard who pressured Campbell to approve McArthur River in haste.
This approval was flawed as the Federal Court found. Garrett has to fix a Liberal Party stuff up.
This all comes back to ministerial responsibility, just ’cause the PM says “I want this project approved…” Does not mean OK – rubber stamp boss.
I guess that is what hapens when you give a “Commercial Property Consultant” the environment gig.
At least Garrett has a law degree and may understand the legal ramifications of his office and the approval process?
GB – regardless what you or I think of the CM (which I suspect is something we can agree on) the story of the early Qld election was not a beat up.
There were strong rumours that she would go in Feb/March.
However, if she has been reported correctly (it was the CM again after all) it doesn’t give her much wriggle room.
Winston
The only people saying there would be an early election were the courier mail and ABC 612’s Madonna King (wife of the CM editor).
How many times does Anna Bligh have to say she will run full term?
Rua, I don’t base my opinions on the Courier Mail or Madonna King.
OK Winston
Please tell us what “strong rumours” you are aware of ??? Or is that secret squirrel stuff???.
Rua, I’m just sharing a bit of information.
The story is that the Qld economy is not looking good, with a significant downturn in the mining sector. We’ve already had the news of BHP cuts – well that’s what the Qld mining companies are facing. It means that the Budget will be pretty nasty.
And with the opposition looking so hopeless, an early election was a serious option.
Now it sounds a bit too much like WA to me, so maybe they came to their senses.
Winston
Anna Bligh has said on at least 6 occasions that she will run full term. The latest today.
The LNP are hopeless they will be just as hopeless in Sept. The budget will be a plus for Bligh.
You are not sharing info, just repeating rumours. Labor was always and will go to the polls in sept.
Winston
“Rua, I’m just sharing a bit of information.
The story is that the Qld economy is not looking good, with a significant downturn in the mining sector. We’ve already had the news of BHP cuts – well that’s what the Qld mining companies are facing. It means that the Budget will be pretty nasty.
And with the opposition looking so hopeless, an early election was a serious option.”
Hav you since heard option is now killed , or has no further info has come to you
One thingy about any Politcan thinking of calling an early electon , is they do not say they’re thinking about it They instead say they ar not thinking about it , until after they hav had a think about it and decided , and even then they ar still thinking about it ……..and why wuldn’t Anna think about it still , at th moment she is guaranted of 4 more years ( getting th “excuse” is usualy th problam)
Has anybody had a look at the A-PAC channel???
Anybody think it’s any good??
There are rumours that the ABC will set up their own politics channel too and that the pay-tv groups will provide A-PAC to digital TV viewers…
See we also hav Wall Street cowboys , this is th story of Soust a CEO of a biotech crowd on our free market ASX , but only getting $245,000 a year so know where near enough to afford a decent holiday But our own aussie cowboy Soust looks at his bonus scheme and sees no greed options , or did he Yep he did , Mr Soust then spends $2200 worth of th Companys in last 25 minutes of trading on 31st December and whaco share price jumps form 2 cents to 2.5 cents……and 2.5 cents a share under his bonus scheme that he probabley influened parameters anyway triggers a Soust bonus of $34,500
Am tinking to myself , how did he later sit thru Remuneraton committees Oking it and later Board meeting aproving it …..and ASIC asked same questons and found he was there but silent , andd so Soust stoory ends at ASIC actions
but story not should end there …shame these cowboys in publicity so deter greedy others and how come Board bad governanse is no penalty , and how else you get productive managrs & private enterprise unless charlotans pay a reel price , and supose Soust disappears as another story in a week forgot and so lessons also forgotton
.
Glen , who but I will ask you like where is this channel and which buttons hit
looks like Joyce’s move to the lower house would cause a bun fight for his senate spot between the Nats and the Libs and the OZ is still pushing the story Bligh will call the election next month.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24950563-2702,00.html
Listening to ABC Radio on the way to work I just heard a prime bit of Turnbull falsehood. When asked what to do about the GFC he said tax cuts because “evidence from around the world” was that they gave people confidence to spend and were not just saved.
Quote that evidence! This is not necessarily true, and depends on how high tax rates were, and who gets the cuts. The Bush tax cuts that went to the wealthy did not do much for the US. The only way that consumption went up and savings down was a perverse one – as the poor got squeezed their savings fell. Someone please challenge Turnbull on this drivel.
The overall eveidence is that government spending stimulates activity more than tax cuts. I’d challenge Turnbull to prove otherwise.
That’s exactly what I was thinking about Joyce’s move to the House. It’s got the very real possibility of The Nationals reducing their numbers in the Senate by 1. They’ll gain one through Victoria… but possibly lose 2 (1 in Queensland and 1 in NSW).
Judith,
“Mr Springborg, who has pointed to the LNP as a model for coalition unity, declined to comment”.
Says it all, really.
If Joyce does get elected to Fed Parliament, will he be a National or a LNP member?
As a Qlder he must be a LNP which makes him half Lib and half National, that then becomes a conflict of interest for him to lead the Nationals. What a woven mess this is becoming.
We also now see that a Liberal wants the Upper House seat that Joyce is vacating. I thought they are now all members of the LNP.
There is great unity in the LNP in QLD, so says the Borg.
This alone shows what a shambles the idea of the LNP is.
and this is because Howard put his finger in the pie by getting in Joyce’s ear, there seems to be no end of the damage he wants to inflict on the party he professes to love, maybe it’s revenge because in the end they wanted to unseat him.
It does look as the Section W.11, does come with a handy part ‘C’ escape clause.
(b) Amongst such sitting Senators, the order shall be as follows:-
(i) Senator the Hon. George Brandis;
(ii) Senator Barnaby Joyce
(iii) Senator the Hon. Brett Mason;
(iv) Senator Russell Trood.
(c) This clause is subject to any subsequent written agreement to the contrary signed for and on behalf of and with the authority of the Liberal National Party of Queensland, the Liberal Party of Australia and the National Party of Australia.
http://www.lnp.org.au/images/stories/PDFs/LNPConstitution080808.pdf
I just can’t understand why Barnaby would want to cause all these problems by moving from the Senate to the House. He might be Shadow Minister for Trade or something. Then he’s more susceptible to Party discipline and can’t spout off about any topic. It’s not as if he’ll miss out on being PM because of being in the Senate.And everyone can ignore him coz one vote in the HOR is irrelevant.
Have I missed something
Put it this way, that other well known mavericky maverick Sarah Palin wouldn’t do it so why would Barnaby.
I don’t think he was a merger fan in the first place. The dislike between Liberal and Queensland Nationals runs far deeper than rational thinking, Diogenes.
I’m just waiting for the formation of the “True Liberal Party” or the “Real Liberal Party”. It mustn’t be far away now.
In the age of economic globalisation voters are less likely to blame incumbent state govts for a struggling state economy or even a resultant tough state budget. As we see in NSW its the quality of govt services that govts are held accountable for, my impression is that Qld Labor is seen as doing OK on these.
with all of this infighting the Courier Mail is trying to push Bligh into an early election, she’d be mad if she did, this is heaven sent for her.
It will pay to keep an eye on “others” in Newspolls between now and the September election. A sharp upturn in “others” could give us an indication if there is a move on towards independents at the expense of the Liberal National Party. It was always going to be the risky side of the merger and this Joyce nonsense feeds into the likelihood.
The merger should have been done Federally first.
There is no reason to have 2 conservative parties in this day and age.
Speaking of Independents, a few minutes ago some bloke drove past with a rickety old trailer holding up a cheap billboard with “Stiller for Sandgate” scrawled across it. Had something about the need for Independents.
Everyone seems to be getting in on the early election act.
Yes, we should have the Liberal Party, the National Party, the Liberal National Party and the True Liberal Party.
How about just the Australian Conservative Party vs the ALP hey it works in the UK?
Glen, you’d lose a swag of inner metro seats where the inhabitants aren’t actually conservative, but anti-labour (in the old fashioned sense) and hence non-labor (in the modern sense).
Julie Bishop on ABC Brisbane radio seemed to be advocating more workchoices as the answer to the economic crisis.
Bull butter Possum, Australians are by and large a conservative people whether you like it or not…how did Rudd win in 2007 by moving to the far left?? No he went to the Right to win…the less bickering we have between the Libs and Nats give the people a clear choice between one group and the other mob…NZ have one conservative party and they won last year…the Brits have one and they will win in 2010 and Canada have one party and they’re in government too.
I watched the inauguration (replay) on it, as well as a quick squiz every now and then. At the moment there is a lot of C-SPAN stuff which appears to be more informative than the other US channels (CNN, Fox, etc), though not as funny as Fox.
It’ll come into its own when it parliament is sitting. No more cutting off of transmission in the middle of a delayed question time (I may be projecting hope there). Plus we’ll get to see a few state parliaments in action (or lack thereof).
Thanks for the update Flaneur.
Glen – if you want to know which Coalition seats a Capital C branded Conservative party with a Capital C branded conservative political framework will lose, look no further than Coalition held seats that either voted yes, or very nearly voted yes in the Republic referendum.
If you reckon the country contains 18 million Eric Abetz’s running around the place, you’ll be on the wrong side of the chamber for eternity.
Do you honestly think the people that elect Bruce Scott actually have anything meaningfully in common with the people that elect Malcolm Turnbull?
Conservatives you reckon?
Waltz down the middle of Wentworth one day spouting anti-abortion, anti-gay, vacuous family values stuff and see how far you get.
Something else worth mentioning, the conservative fantasy of the Australian population being “just like them” is nothing but an enormous myth. If we go to page 23 of the Australian Election Study – it’s pretty clear that the Australian population is, on average, centrist and that they see the Coalition much further (on average) to the right of their own political beliefs.
The first two charts on this page are the two diagrams from page 23 of the survey.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/11/09/sunday-requestathon/
#424 You are going to have to be more specific about you mean in that context about ‘inner metro seats’. For instance, in Sydney, do you mean Wentworth, North Sydney, Bradfield, Warringah?
Possum
On that graph, I’m surprised that the voter’s see the Liberals as further to the right than the Nationals.
Charles,
North Sydney, Wentworth and Ryan upfront. Over the next decade/decade and a half, depending on the death rate of the elderly, some of those blue ribbon Victoria seats like Kooying and Higgins would be a marginal call. Actually, Melbourne would become a real problem. The Melbourne anti-labour forces only really had two things in common with their northern conservative cousins for the last 100 years. Their dislike of organised labour and, post WW2, their protectionist tendencies (after the NSW free traders died out).
The former is slowly becoming irrelevent (as is organised labour itself on the whole, YRAW not withstanding), and the latter is already meaningless for anyone not old enough to remember it.
That exposes a lot of raw cultural differences in the Liberal/Conservative movement now that the glue that has kept them together has slowly started to dissolve. Howard didn’t help by forcefully moving the Liberal Party into National Party territory. In the coastal seats – sure, it was a fair enough demographic fit.
But in the inland seats it’s going to be a nightmare, forcing the Libs to juggle two constituencies that have virtually nothing in common, but an awful lot to dislike about each other.
Dio, maybe some see the National Party’s agrarian socialism for what it is?
Possum im not saying the 18m Australians are as right wing as Eric Abetz but i will say they have more in common with most Liberal MPs than Julia Gillard…
The Conservative Party (UK) has like the Liberals many MPs with differing opinions on some issues putting some in the centre which isnt a bad thing you could hardly call David Cameron a right wing nut job he is a Conservative but he’s not far right by any stretch….but the people by and large want lower taxes and less government influence in their daily lives.
You can be so nasty sometimes.
I saw that Virginia Tech had another tragedy today with a PhD student studying agrarian economics being decapitated in the cafe.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24951745-5006301,00.html
Glenn – the poms have the Liberal Democrats, which allows the small l Liberals to park their vote in a non Labour Party place, which then allows the Tories to move to the right – not really having to worry about that constituency.
But if the Liberal Democrats didn’t exist AND you had compulsory voting in the UK running with compulsory preferential, the Tories would arguably have the same problem at the moment that the Coalition has here.
Another question Glen – I’m fascinated by the Liberal Party line on Gillard. Do you really think that the wider public (meaning wider than the local Liberal Party) believes that Gillard is a left wing fanatic?
All of the (albeit sparse) polling so far shows she’s pretty popular.
There’s another myth that the Coalition needs to get a bit of self awareness over too – tax cuts. Taxes have been repeatedly cut since Hawke, which makes the so called coalition “strength” mostly one based on propaganda and political messaging than any real inherent truth.
But Howard’s GST weakened even the propaganda value of that line for a large chunk of the country. It’s not really something that the Coalition can rely on as an actual vote winner (although I’m sure they’ll continue to bang on about it and waste their breath regardless).
The other point is that people want “less government interference in their lives”. Again, a nice nebulous concept that crashes into the reality of public opinion when it comes down to actually suggesting which government services should be cut.
Food for though anyways.
Possum i hardly thing you could say David Cameron has moved the Tories further to the Right…the Tories compete with the Liberal Democrats for seats as much as they do against Labor so they are capable of branching out to the small l liberals…
Gillard wont be Prime Minister Possum. Plain and simple she is too far to the left for the ALP to have her as PM and if she were put in power at a later date she’d lose at the next election…She is not representative of middle Australia and her views arent shared by large sections of Australians…She is merely a novalty factor for the media to build her up but Joel Fitzgibbon would most likely take over from Rudd down the track if that ever happened.
Never forget it was the DLP., with urging to vote DLP by the Catholic Church, which kept Menzies in power or so long after WW2.
Glenn – I wasnt really talking about which way Cameron has moved (or if he even had), but was saying that comparing the behaviour of the conservative political forces in the UK with Australia isnt really a meaningful comparison because of the existence of a small L liberal party, and the way that combines with non-compulsory voting (and their lack of compulsory voting running with compulsory preferential) and how that all plays out demographically means the political landscape is just fundamentally different.
I had nothing to say at all about Gillard being PM or otherwise – but was wondering why the Liberal Party seems to think she’s a radical left weak link in the ALP armour, even though there’s has been no evidence to even remotely suggest that the public believes the same.
The polling evidence actually suggests that she’s getting more popular over time – making me wonder just what the purpose of the Gillard attack is, or if it’s just a bit of desperate flailing about?
Steel @ 433
There will probably be Labor hegemony across the broader electorate for a while but if Federal seats like North Sydney, Ryan, Kooyong and Higgins do become ‘marginal’ for non-Labor in the next decade, then inevitably non-Labor will adjust its personnel and policy positions to ensure it does not lose the electoral support of the people (of whatever age group) who live in those comparatively affluent areas.
Ooops, sorry David – didnt mean to call you Charles! It’s all a bit formal – let us put on our smoking jackets and break out the cognac dear fellow!
No doubt the Liberals will try to move that way if their blue ribbon seats start to fade from them. I wonder though how that would play out with their rural and regional constituents?
If the Coalition moves to the right to bolster the regions, they suffer on their left flank with votes going to the ALP and the Greens. But if they move to cover their small l liberal constituency they lose votes on their right flank to either independents (or to the ALP from people that would ordinarily vote on values issues, but if it’s removed by both parties appearing the same, leak to the ALP on government services issues like health, education and welfare).
The right flank of the Coalition is larger than the left flank of the ALP. If the ALP moves to the right, Greens votes come back to them anyway via prefs.But the if the Coalition moves to the left, there’s no guarantee that the votes they lose on the right will come back to the Coalition at all.
We’ve seen how places like North Sydney have been slowly moving toward the ALP since Tampa – the Coalition left flank. But we’ve also seen the Coalition lose their right flank to Labor in places like Forde and some of the regional QLD seats. The Coalition struggles to play values politics in the regions to bolster their right flank without it getting coverage across the country and blowing back on them in the inner cities.
Glen dont kid yourself Gillard couldnt be PM later on, four years ago what chances would you have given an African American would be POTUS? Gillard isnt very left at all and she’d get some votes just for being a woman, women like to see some of their own sex in charge and Gillard has shown herself very capable when she fills in for Rudd.
That’s Ok Scott. Don’t like cognac but appreciate the bonhomie. I am certainly interested in your perspectives on the direction of non-Labor politics in our great country. Perhaps we can revisit this topic another time, maybe on your site. Cheers.
Possum,
My experience from chatting with some of those Conservatives of which we speak, tells me that they consider themselves very rational realists. They believe absolutely in small government and low taxes and even more in the proliferation of big government, big spending socialist lefties.
They are so convinced by their own logic and practicality that, for them, is stands to reason that all right-thinking people would feel the same. Hence the claim to enjoy greater support Australia wide than in fact they have on any real measure. In fact, the majority of the Australian public has not supported many conservative positions, such as the monarchy and the war in Iraq.
Alternatively, the Australian public has continued to support causes which the Conservatives have traditionally railed against, such as:
climate change; abortion; single parenthood; and welfare payments.
This is why they think Julia Gillard is a liability – they can even imagine why she wouldn’t be.
Young Liberals propose national service:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24951935-601,00.html
No, not to develop a sense of community involvement, it is actually to detail with the financial crisis!
“Young Liberal president Noel McCoy said the aim was to provide a sizeable low-cost workforce that would help to offset the effects of the financial crisis.”
Well I guess you can’t get lower cost than ZERO. So I guess this counts as WorkChoices II
This push for tax cuts to diminish GFC efects is just a repeat of th econamic philosophy of 12 years of Costello
According to ANZ guru’s stats , th July 2008 tx cuts were significantly saved debt reduction , not spent and thats what you’d expent except th spending demographics I wuld hav thought if turnbull didn’t like infrastructure spending , then atleast he should be pushing th other obvious , temp tax breaks for investment
(finishing) as Tiurnbull seems to hav lkost touch even with business sector
“But the if the Coalition moves to the left, there’s no guarantee that the votes they lose on the right will come back to the Coalition at all.”
No , not at all But ahilst I think you ar wrong i just hope th Liberal party actualy believe you completely Enemy Marsupial because they won’t win back Federol power thinking that way
They need to become less ‘consevative’ and revolutionary 9for Libs & Menzies thoughts) become ’services’ policuy focused cause Labor beats them in all those categorys , and there past alternitive fortes (national security & econamics) won’t help them with a Rudd at helm watching them two areas
Will be interesting to see what the LNP campaign on at the next election.
Race, bigotry, interest rates and the national security fear cards are all gone. No Aboriginal communities to invade, no refugees to use and abuse, no public servant departments to corrupt, no billions in tax payer dollars to throw at the media and, no neocon USA to call on either. Not being in government there is no wedge card available. Goodness! for the first time in a decade they will have to actually campaign on policies. They are doomed in that case. They will have to campaign on how Rudd ruinded the world economy in the space of a few months.
And it is not certain conservative business would like to see Rudd go either so the LNP might not get the usual full support from that quarter.
BTW so the young libs announce the ultimate conculsion of Workchoices – nationalising the workforce.
Ahhh slavery, the wet dream of the young liberal.
“Now Boy, wash my Merc”
LCP had surplus’s , good econamic mangers and low employment….
ALP hav deficits , bad econamic mangers and high 6-7% unemployment
LCP offers tax cuts
ALP CC policy transferring aussie jobs to overseas
ALP gone too far on IR , Union thugs ar running things
ALP promised fast broadband , where is it
All politcal Partys always hav lines
Its arrogant & political ilnous to wipeout Libs as if they will never regain Govt and also that all there best voting demographics (older people) ar all dying… as if we ar just still staying young , but then maybe we ar These things go in cycles (th better th encumbant Govt & poorer th oposition th longer th cycle except econamic/security crisis’s)
Diehard Libs hate Gillard the way the left hated Howard. It took Labor a long time to realise that the average non-interested swinging voter didn’t hate Howard like they did. Similarly they don’t hate Gillard the way the Libs do. My personal experience is that Labor voters love her, Liberal voters hate her and the middle don’t seem to mind her at all.
To say she doesn’t represent middle Australia is ridiculous. I suppose Malcolm merchant banker Turnbull does? Most average people have been exposed to unmarried, childless people through their own family or work. They aren’t scared of her.
What is it that you compare Howard with Gillard. Howard had form, he was the Treasurer in the ‘Bottom of the Harbour’ fiasco in the 80’s and did nothing about it. Then he became PM and invented core and non core promises, the ‘never ever GST’ and continued the lies and deceit for the remainder of his term.
What is it that Gillard has done, that gives reason for the hatred shown towards her by the die hard LIbs?
You don’t form government with only North Sydney, Ryan, Kooyong and Higgins, and you don’t need North Sydney, Ryan, Kooyong and Higgins to form government. As the AAP move to the right they force the Liberals into a very narrow zone.
No , ALP has not moved to ‘right’ at all , thats a Greens myth Th Labor Party is a centre left Party, reflective of its Govt who won like all Govt’s do with th midle ground Australian voters….this middle ground has always favoured Labor’s ‘left’ policys on Health educaton , social justise etc and Polls hav always shown that
Labors electoral problams hav always been to overcome Liberal’s perceived advantages in security & econamics both of which assisted Howad vctories , but when th first ‘died’ and th second’s crdability undermined by rate rises , and then W/C as well then Labor was in box seat to win So ALP haven’t forsed Liberal Party inrto a narrow zone , they did themselves by swinging to ‘consevative’ to creat seeds of defeat wirhth W/C a ‘consevative’ notion , they need to become ‘liberal’ again to hav any chanse & therfter sweat on Labor error’s
Ron,
There is and has been far too much gratuitous advice to the Libs about how to conduct their affairs. I am more than happy for them to continue exactly as they have done for the last twelve months or so.
GG
yes Amigo , agree am happy for them to continue as is…thought it was safe to giv advise on what they should do , because they like th elitist intelectuals see my lyrics & tink such literary prose is just too far above there levels of imaginations
Ron,
Tell them nothing, take them nowhere.
That is true GG “take them nowhere.”
At moment they’re 1/2 way between notwhere and no where , but if there left alone they’ll end up at nowhere but united….. But If they follow me advice , then ‘consevatives’ and ‘liberals’ will fight each other….and still end up nowhere but divided….only trying to help
ron
we got our vowels from the greeks
Suppose you’ve budgeted for your finalls 8 judster tickets already
Also glen mentiond a new channel APAC that i could’t find , but my tech daughter did near Discovery Channel , first time saw it tonite and had good China lecture on
Ron,
Not quite. Fixing up membership renewal details this weekend.
Blues are back!
Gusface , just because thats where we got em from , does mean they’re ‘right’ , Greeks pinched stuff from Egytians and for mine st.ffed up those thingys long th way
You know GG “Blues are back!” , geez I can picture Big Jack sayin out loud “th blues ar back in town” gravel voice and all
Ron
Thats for when peeps claim to not understand you
“its all greek to them” !!
Oh noes, you’re talking feetball, bludgers. Quelle horreure! Pardon about the spelling, the 3 legged cat is on the rampage. Now, let’s see if I can say something before the whole thing gets consigned to virtual oblivion. ( He doesn’t like the letters v and b they disturb his positioning on my lap). O. k. , he’s decided to play cello, always charming.
Anyway, I’ve been laughing every time today I heard of Her Maj’s Loyal Opposition Leader attacking the gov’t. for being on the side of the banks. That he says it with such a straight face, just adds to my mirth.
Idiot.
Amigo GG, the Blues migh be back, but the Green&Golds have gone away. they were just too scare to HIT the effing ball!!!
Doesn’t anyone care about cricket?
1: Demonstrate her capability’s
2: Fear
3. Show a respect for property rights unlike the inhabitants of Gilligan’s Island.
I wonder if the Young Liberals, running up this scheme for military or civil “national service”, have bothered to think about whether the latter would be held by the High Court to be constitutional See Constitution, s.51 (xxiiiA).
pedant,
fire, aim, ready
What is that about Pedant? Have the Young Libs. been coming up with yet more wonderful ways of sending everyone else to fight stupid, ill-conceived wars, I’d not heard of? Wouldn’t surprise me. They’re very good at that, as long as it’s not them who have to fight.
Harry @ 473: see the link at 446.
What You Talkin’ ‘Bout Willis?
I seem to remember a poll before Rudd became leader, showing Gillard as prefered ALP leader with Rudd deputy? Not much evidence there that the public dislike her.
Sometimes Politics is as easy as 101.
>>ALP has not moved to ‘right’ at all , thats a Greens myth
Yes but purveyed with gusto when a rank and file ALP member expresses his disgust with the shenanigans perpetrated by the Another Liberal Partei “elites”.
And do you know what? It works. My GRN group in western Sydney picked up another 2 disaffected ALP members this week – one had nearly 40 yrs membership and had been a winning campaign manager back in the 80s . That makes 15 in the last 12 months. Mind you it isn’t hard when you have the current motley crew in power in NSW.
Rudd has cancelled his overseas trip, the first half was deferred by the countries involved and Rudd decided to stay home and work on the next package and send someone else to the economic forum, whats the bet the wheels are spinning in Turnbull’s head to work out how he could turn it to his advantage, perhaps he’ll try on that Rudd is scared to leave him an open field, or things are much, much worse than Rudd is telling us, or Rudd is panicking, i’m sure his fertile brain will come up with something.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/01/23/2473473.htm
Better watch them Albert, loyalty isn’t their long suit.
479 – Don’t worry Judith Cosby Textor are working on it as I write. One of your options will be right. I don’t expect Mal to just say, “Good move” (which it is I think).
AR,
So where do the prefs go my lovely,
When you’re alone in your bed?
Tell me the angst that surrounds you
Cos, we can look inside your head.
ALP Sarsted
Popular song from the sixties
Nice one Hungry Horse. However at state and local govt level the decision might be to exhaust. We still have to see what the sainted Faulkner will recommend as the set up for the next Federal election.
AR,
The ALP will eat their Greens, eventually.
477 – well duh!
Thanks for pointing out the link there chuckles, otherwise surely many others would have missed it
You don’t like that I have visited Politic 101? is that the problem?. Well for what it’s worth yeah, sure have, still do sometimes and have a fair amount of respect for many(most) of the inhabitants. This is wrong in some way for you?. If your after a fight over the “troubles” that were happening a long, long time ago then I suggest you’ve picked the wrong one to single out for your attack. Go have a look through the archives grumps and see who suggested what during those times
Although it’s clear that truth isn’t the point for you, it’s more about the excise of power,
Isn’t it Judge
The excise of power.
Now there’s a taxing problem.
Now that’s funny
“Interest rates will always be lower under a Liberal government.”
$4bn fund to shore up developers
http://www.theage.com.au/national/4bn-fund-to-shore-up-developers-20090123-7ora.html?page=1
Note Turnbull’s comment. He will never agree to anything this bloke.
Gary,
Boasting about low interest rates at the moment is a bit like boasting that you’ve lost weight because you’ve got cancer.
No boast Dyno, just highlighting the stupidity of your past leader.
Oh, and the stupidity of your present leader.
Hooray!
Someone finally invented a useful machine.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/23/2473520.htm
SPAM BOX
Did you watch ‘under belly’ channel 9 Now this was story of Carl Williams criminal drug lord earning squillions from kids drug addicton Bad man you say
Then we hav those non Carl Williams persons but still a ‘Williams’ that did not trade drugs , thats th ‘family’ …..who knowinly lived a high life knowing there life was drugs crime soursed financed , and ar they pure , ar they got standards , and angels of innocense
So when you “benefit” from crime , from that you know was ‘rights’ wrong …and post blog so ‘benefiting’ from an immoral ‘birth’ you perpetarate and condone by your blogging presence , then can no longer claim ‘innocence’ , perhips think again …principals
BTW , taped th cricket…and result stlill same still lost , th earlier news was right
BTW , now GG a mobile in a shoe ? , can a mobile in my gum boots be far behind
Albert Ross
#478
Ron #456 “ALP has not moved to ‘right’ at all , thats a Greens myth”
Albert Ross “Yes but purveyed with gusto when a rank and file ALP member expresses his disgust with the shenanigans perpetrated by the Another Liberal Partei “elites”.
What I went on to demonstate in #456 is th Labor Party was and still is a ‘centre left’ party Now it might be a convenient ’spin’ to Greens rusted on to say this but it is not based on fact , any more than its corect to call Libs neocons
Why I dimissed such nonsense in my post is because Greens seem to hav 2 factions , i call th rational Greens in policy and politcal aspiratons as a ‘influence’ party on public policy nuancing for more old type ‘left’ directons with CC a modern version , and th nutty intelectuals with extreme policy solutons and false grandurs of replacing labor who called Labor ‘right’
So politcaly inept silly is th later Greens intelectual ‘corect’ group that a minor movement by Labor to th ‘left’ although presented more wuld fataly damage Greens Party politcaly and electoraly , and thats in neither Partys politcal intersts anyway so don’t pray for what may be a don Chipp Party outcome , it may theoireticaly hapen In preactise Labor remains a centre left Party recognising reality of “globilisation’ , and for Greens Party in general it can afford to pretend ‘blobisation’ etc is not reel and market policys accordingly , knowing they’’s never be in govt & knowing in govt many ar impratical
So if you’ve got some additional members , thats fine , increases Greens ‘protest influense vale , and electoraly votes end up in Labor seeing 77& Greens wuld never pref Libs anyway
BTW
you arasked for advice other nite on drinking with dinner & you had to giv up drinkin cause next day you were ratsh… , no one hleped with with any advice not even your Green mates , well Albert as a centre left party beleiving in social justise & helpin peoples , can I say answer of your ‘drinking with dinner & you had to giv up drinkin cause next day you were ratsh…’ is you cut out wrong one , giv dinner a miss , drink away and next dat you won’t be ratsh…at all …although you may not remember anyting either , but you’ll be happy
Turnbull’s out to save the world again.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24955360-5017906,00.html
if anyone wants to reply, Ray Evans president of the H.R.Nicholls society has written a letter to the editor in the OZ lauding work choices of course, you can blog replys there so any printed should be interesting.
Young pup demands an election now!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/teen-lnp-candidate-ignores-party-line/2009/01/23/1232471580187.html
Perhaps young Palmer has a short attention span or doesn’t trust the LNP camel to hold together much past the end of February.
At the risk of drawing irate responses from diehard Labor supporters in SA, I’m going to point out, yet again, that the Tiser is not pro-Lib but often acts as a newsletter for Mike Rann. I’ve noticed this on Health on many occasions. There is no point trying to get bad news published on Health by the Tiser coz they just won’t do it. The Sunday Mail is much more balanced.
The Tiser’s Editorial today says that the next election will probably have two main issues, Water and the Marj Hospital. They unequivocally supports Rann in building the Marj Hospital to replace the RAH and goes as far as saying they should not even have to convince everyone what a great idea it is, as it’s so self-evident. They will obviously campaign for Mike Rann again this election.
c’mon Dio, you know usually the Advertiser bangs the liberal drum, look at the lies and twisting they did against Nicole Cornes and how they usually laud MHS’s pie in the sky ideas, perhaps your being a tad biased here because your anti the Marge, some of us are all for it, i’m no doctor but i’m looking at it from a patient’s point of view, the trams will go right past it and it’s right on the train station, there’ll be underground parking and everything will be ultra modern with a helicopter pad on the roof, Dio, have you ever tried to get a park near the RAH, it’s hell i can tell you, i’ve had both of my knees smashed in an accident and walking distances is out, that counts the RAH out for me, just as well vet affairs allows me some sort of choice, my last turn in hospital was for a skin graft, i had it in Calvary, i would have much preferred the RAH specialists, alterations have been going on at the RAH from as far back as i can remember and it’s still a long way from being up to scratch, regardless of all of that Dio to accuse the Advertiser of being left leaning boggles the imagination, thats why Downer is allowed a weekly column, {i could tell you why} and Chris Kenny, Downer’s offsider was also weekly till he went to Canberra to work for Turnbull a couple of weeks ago, i know some of the Advertiser’s editors and believe me they dont have a labor bone in their bodies.
Now we are expected to believe that a small l Queensland Liberal will go to Canberra and sit in the National Party partyroom meetings.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24955337-5006786,00.html
Judith
I don’t think the Nicole Cornes disgrace was necessarily due to anti-Labor sentiment, I think it was just appalling, populist character assassination. I agree that it was an all-time low for them and I cancelled the Saturday Tiser as a result (my wife got it).
Mansell was a journo with Mike Rann. There are LOTS of close links on the Health side. The only area I know enough about to really comment on is Health and the Tiser just won’t publish anything anti-Hill or anti-Sherbon (who is the CEO of the Health Dept). Their attitude to Lee Stevens, the previous Health Minister was quite different, and Hill is probably more hopeless than Stevens. There is something foul in the State of Denmark…
And the difference between the Tiser and the Sunday Mail is quite stark. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t another anti-Marj article tomorrow.
I don’t mind the Tiser thinking that the Marj should be built; there is a good argument for it. There are also good arguments against it, esp the name change, but the Tiser just won’t show any balance and present both arguments.
It now seems like that the Nats are running the Coalition in opposition, or is it the Qld Nats or the Qld LNP or is it BJ himself.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. I wonder if he will provide targets.
Here’s a great way to celebrate Australia Day!
http://www.bastardwatch.com.au/grill_a_bastard/
Gary
Turnbull wants to be greener, cleaner and more economically responsible than Rudd. It looked like more BS with no basis to me but we’ll wait and see. He does have a point about using renewable energy as a stimulus for the economy at the same time as helping CC. Garrett has dropped the ball on that one.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24955367-601,00.html
Gary, surely you dont expect Turnbull to do anything so mundane like giving targets or costings, you should know his lordship is above such everyday exercises, you’ll just have to take him on trust, he learned well with Howard’s $10b Murry intervention and the indiginous foray, both uncosted and scribbled on the back of envelopes without going through cabinet or treasury.
So what. Kevin Rudd or Mark Latham never submitted any of their policy costings to treasury in thier respective election campaigns.
508 – and I bet you were one of the first to criticise them for not doing so Tabatha er Bree.
508 – Besides, at the present time, where finances reign supreme, surely any such plan should be costed. The opposition is saying this can be done now. Well, how do we know that? It could be too costly to achieve. The Libs are all about not going into deficit and being careful with spending.
What garbage
Bree, ever heard of the Charter of Budget Honesty Act 1998? It’s the law and is complied with by all sides of politics.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/framelodgmentattachments/1AF5822889419466CA256F710051FA64
Another thing, Bree.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/31/1093938926668.html?from=moreStories
We finally have some good news from Peter Martin as to whether Australia is headed into recession or not. I was getting sick of his pessimism and doom and gloom so this must be good news indeed.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/
Steve, what this GFC, if we dont know it already, is telling us is that NOBODY knew and knows about anything, even for the master-of-the-universe and the quan-king of this world.
It simply reminds me of my encounter with G.O.D the other day. She asked me about my future plan, so i told her. She has not stopped laughing ever since.
this would come close to the perfect one liner, it’s on the OZ’s letter columns blog.
“Turnbull turns up ETS heat” read “Turnbull pumps out more hot air”
Debating whether we will have a recession is a bit like debating whether we will have CC.
You can’t be sure of either, any more than you can be sure the sun will rise tomorrow.
However in both cases (just as with tomorrow’s sunrise) you’d jolly well better be planning for it to happen!
Given what I’ve read of Malcolm’s CC announcement, it is clear that he thinks the sun shines out of his ar….
Mr Turnbull wants to put more money into carbon capture and storage, an untried and stupid policy. It is just to say that we are still in denial, unfortunately the Rudd Government is doing much the same thing. Meanwhile the world continues to get hotter, last year temperatures went up again on average in this country and the world continues to warm… Put simply our politicians just do not want to do anything.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/global-warming/turnbull-unveils-climate-change-policy/2009/01/24/1232471644804.html
Some things in it are good, like improving effeciency, but most of it is blah blah blah.
Except the next step of your analogy is that with climate change, the sun currently is rising.
Tony, what were you thinking…
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24957627-29277,00.html
bluddy hell the libs lost Frome!!!
sorry wrong thread
Tony, what were you thinking…..
http://redland.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/abbott-wants-costello-to-be-ready-to-serve/1414252.aspx?src=rss
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126921.500-interview-one-last-chance-to-save-mankind.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=climate-change
James Lovelock states some very gloomy stuff for the next generation and some of the present if little is done…
Abbott has put his foot in it all the way down to his throat, he’s compared Howard’s medal to our new VC, boy has that got the vets going.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24957627-5005962,00.html
There is speculation that outer space sent a delegation to the Obama inauguration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jTAd-TVFM&eurl=http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24957442-5006301,00.html&feature=player_embedded
Judith, i have not slept nor eaten all these days waiting for the results. TQ, so now i can resume my normal life.
529 – Finn, this is a political blog. What do you expect? It’s better than taking cheap shots at Obama all day.
well Finn it’s great news for those of us who’ve been following it, this was the wrong thread, over excitement i think, still Dio might be interested.
Was that necessary?
it was a huge shock, the libs claimed victory days ago.
GB, you mean like this?
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/ny-usclin236009151jan23,0,1737272.story
Yes, it was unfortunate that Obi has to play second fiddle to Hillary on that occasion. She even got the gig to announce the two special envoys for ME and Afgan/Pakistan.
Yes Judith, that well known Hillary lover will be pleased.
Finn, i’m not going to apologise for posting on the wrong thread in my excitement, please dont use my posts to take sarcastic pot shots at other posters, Dio and i dont always see eye to eye on everything but i have massive respect for him and his views, he treats me with respect which is more than you are doing, if you dont like my post please dont reply to them, cheers, judy.
534 The Finnigans – Yep, that’s what I mean Finn.
Houston, we have an agreement.
Finns
She must have had Bill in tow and they were excited to see him again. Then again, after four years of Condi, anyone would look good.
btw Diog, do you massive respect for me? and vice versa?
have
From that Tiser article.
Whoops! Wrong thread.
Finns
I have the appropriate level of respect for an individual such as yourself.
While I appreciate the mutual love in going on here I will return to Malcolm’s strategy on carbon.
Why release it on the Saturday of a long weekend? Was it for public consumption or Liberal – National Party consumption?
I think the latter.
Diog, hmmmm, only an “appropriate level ” level? never mind.
But i do have massive respect for you. otherwise, why would I travel all the way to Macchu Piccu to place a “Diog, you were wRONg sign” there even though you were RIGHT about Obi.
Finns
The last person I know who went to Macchu Pichu went by himself, spoke to the Knowledge Trees, and decided to leave his wife and kids.
ruawake, is there a polling going on this weekend? thats when Turnbull seems to unfold his big announcements, newspoll wont be taken till next weekend, parliament starts tuesday, perhaps he’s trying to get some momentum up or top Rudd’s new package for publicity.
Or coincide with a column by a News Ltd friendly writer like the poisoned dwarf
and Mark Riley on Ch 7.
Judith
Thats why its weird, if Turnbull had announced it yesterday it would have made the printed versions of the newspapers.
Did it really have to wait for the Young Libs talk fest?
Parliament sits in a bit over a week, next Friday would have been a good day to release it, then have momentum going into tuesday QT.
Turnbull must have known, or should have known that his “strategy” will be lost in Australian of the year, fireworks, fights and arrests.
I think this announcement is more about soothing L-NP factions, than a real attempt at doing anything on carbon.
do you think the troops might just be getting a bit restless? they have this last newspoll that gave him a boost, though blind freddy would see it as things just settling back to normal after an outlier, which it was.
Finns
I think this is what I was trying to say.
I love the last line.
“Is it because I is black?”
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=QFKtHSlaMVI
This afternoon Rudd Govt officially announced funding to protect jobs in the construction industry. But how far would Rudd Govt go to protect jobs?
The Singapore Govt has decided to directly subsidize the wages to save jobs. Singapore is already in recession, and this year contraction is expected to be 5%. About 200,000 highly paid expats are losing their jobs and returning home, including Australians. So the Sing Govt has decided to:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_330169.html
CPF is Singaporean Super Fund.
For any Democrat die hards still out there:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24954114-7582,00.html
Been away a day and therre’s some FINNS bashing goin on , picked th wrong guty there he’s not only cleverer but lacks my uncivilised graces to say.. get
I liked this line….. “Finn, this is a political blog.” No , some posters want to make it a politcal blog of only what they select is apropriate , and anything abit sensitive like criticism or humour about oiliness people , th Obama geez is too sensitive for ears , get used to it , and actualy i just get evens more encouraged to chalenge on principal by somes not too subtle attempts at selectiv censorship Then of cousre there is Gazza and now over wider m/e strategies can post , of israel’s charades and of both sides foolish use of forse but nothing changes status quos stay just more funerals
Then there was malcolm’s annouce , causes confusions of whys , yey Malcolm has revolutions of libs &Nats within and Parliament coming , so strategy to asert himself to inner sanctums …and if public effects a bonus bonus But wit warring factions , but is anyone listening Malcolm
Hi Ron
I been away for 4 days, haven’t read the last few days posts but i see above where you say Finns has been copping a bashing! does that mean they are leaving you alone for a change?
And what about Talcum flapping his gums about CC when most of his good buddies say it doesn’t exist!
And Ruddie is looking after the workers and staying home and BBQing sausages and getting in the spirit for Australia day. will Australian of the year be an Aboriginal do you think?
WHAT! This hasn’t been mentioned?
The Liberals have lost Frome to the independent
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24957588-5006301,00.html
NSW won the 20/20 final on the final ball! go blues
Ron, like it or not this blog is a political blog. “Poll Bludger” – doesn’t that suggest politics? As to the political topics and what is acceptable, well that’s William’s perogative.
As for the childish name calling that reflects badly on the name caller, not the target.
ShowsOn, i made the boo boo of posting that on this thread by mistake, ummm it sort of stirred the pot a bit, Finn didnt take too kindly about it, never mind i retired to the correct thread to do a gleeful war dance.
Shows
Hillary would have won frome in a canter
Ahh, Peter Van Onselen doing his bit to assist the Opposition.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24957766-5005374,00.html
Vera
“Hi Ron
I been away for 4 days, haven’t read the last few days posts but i see above where you say Finns has been copping a bashing! does that mean they are leaving you alone for a change? ”
Vera , how could I deny thems there daily bread , thats why I cann’t go away for long times
Reckon Vera it would be reel appropriate after Appology last year to go with your great idea of an Aboriginal aussie of year…now learned briggade will corect if its they’ve had this honour before , but for me Pat Dodson , very wise man when hear , some don’t listen a 2nd time but should as 2nd time when you do he is even wiser and realistic as an “aboriginal australian” , if not then that Lois lady done much , and then theres Noel pearson up north piooneering Aboriginal self responsibilaty
….could name some absolately brillant Aborigial footballers & leaders like th Michael Long , but th intelectual elitist set don’t like cultured footy , should tell you about michael Long , humble man indeed
I’m following you gary Bruce , this is a politcal blog so both turnbull and obama by definition ar on th platter for mauling , but youse can criticise turnbull any way here and at any level and ad nauseum , and with ‘names’ and ‘black’ humour (that i don’t object to by way , but notise you do NOT object to either , yet when obama gets some ‘names’ or humour only then do you selectively object to ‘names’ or ‘black’ humour…your argument at best is double standards and parisien precous I mean if you ar going to argue an ilogical argumetn then at least be consistently ilogical
Frank i left a blog, not that i’m expecting it to be printed, but i tried.
LOL! SOLID GOLD
amigo vera and ron, yes there was the big bash, the blues on top. Amigo gg was right, the blues are back!!
The other bashing? Mickey was my middle name and they didnt know it. Give me the exiles of the g island anyday
Ron, I never mentioned black humour. It’s the purile names of anybody I object to. You’ll notice I don’t use those names for Turnbull, Howard or anybody else. It adds nothing to the argument. William has in fact banned some names (on both sides of the political fence) and rightly so IMHO. I happen to think it demeans those using the names.
By all means use whatever name you want (or William will allow), that is your right but don’t expect me to take yours or anybody else’s argument seriously if you do so.
Judith , I leave you with thought lnowing FINNS man…his post wass simply alittle lite humour , and not debasing you or that your post was on wrong thread cause anyone can mis type wrong thread to post on , and his second postwas reely to diog , who he knows is a velvet South aussie who’d alsos be pleased with a Labor by electon win Maybe you were thrown blogging on wrong site , but I commit more sins in a day than thou in a year , be happy….Libs lost th by electon
ShowsOn @ 555 – you’re not looking in the right place.
Gary Bruce , having exposed th ilogicalness of your post , you now become petulant like digging your own hole You DO reply to bloggers calling Malcolm names , so do not try that ’spin’ , so your problam objection is solely that you object to ‘names’ or humour against Obama only but not Turnbull , and it is only those ‘Obama posters’ you now say you will not be responding to …which indicates your over preous support for Obama or misplaced thoughts tonite …seeing your own alleged defence of “standards” is not patantly correct
Ron, let me expose your “ilogicalness”. I didn’t say I wouldn’t respond. I’m responding to you. It’s also not the first time I’ve argued this case against people. Actually I did so earlier on on this thread.
I’m consistent. I don’t like the name calling and I don’t do it.
I don’t recall saying that.
Ron, along with Dio i’m also South Australian and i too have a sense of humour but no i dont think i took it wrongly mate, Ron ive had to deal closely with all types from the top pollies to the worse journo’s over the years and when years ago i would have cringed at being spoken down to, i lost my inferiority complex years ago in pure self defence, i’m the most innoffensive person around and there is no way i’d go looking for probs, but theres no way nowadays i’ll be talked down to neither, if i can tell a premier of this state to go jump i can tell anyone, i admit i’m like a cat on a hot tin roof right now because of personal issues, at present i have a sword hanging over my head, but i still expect to be treated with respect, Ron i appreciate your trying to pour oil on troubled waters–and they’re not too troubled, as far as i’m concerned the spat is over, i dont hold grudges, cheers, Judy.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch. Things are not looking good for the Indians lately:
There was the Mumbai terrorist attacks that shook the nation. Then there was the Satyam business terrorist attacks that shook the corporate and IT world.
Now its PM is in ICU after a sudden heart surgery:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/PMs_surgery_over_stabilization_process_on/articleshow/4026161.cms
Mr. Singh is one of the very few highly respected politicians in India because he is CLEAN. He is unlikely to return to be PM again. The cash grab will begin again in New Delhi.
Judith , sorry to hear youse got some issues hpe work out fine soon, as for getting talked down to well I get tlked to all time so figure there is only one way and thats up ! …one day Guess was trying to say that this posting bit is abit dangeous cause what one person says another can take diff like not same as face to face and just bit out in words and bingo wrong meesage ges sent accross these bytes , and humour even worser cause very fine line of someone seeing a smile and geting offended But glad you say its over , FINNS is a great guy , no a nice as me I might add and as for your south assie humour , geez th water that goes into West end beer could do with something
Amigo Ronnie, i deserve to be exiled to the island in the sun for upsetting Judy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjObgrE9CT8
I hope the day will never come
That I can’t awake to the sound of drum
Never let me miss carnival
With calypso songs philosophical
Gary Gary Bruce
“that is your right but don’t expect me to take yours or anybody else’s argument seriously if you do so.”
then
“I didn’t say I wouldn’t respond. I’m responding to you.”
Now i’m going to keep saying obama is oiliness with words , because he is …nuances galore amongst intent broad statements that sound desirable good & results will be in th eating…and if you don’t like th politcal assessment so.. , and to diog i’ll be sayin Hillary is in charge of all FA and will be rewarded righty with praise for all success and there wil be some , except when there is a st.ff up and then its Obama’s fault Now which of your two blogs i’m suposed to take , I wonder (but your ’standards’ chop out a hell of lot of posters who hav taken notice of and replied to , you on whisky or something tonite)
Ron i’ve lived with these issues for quite a long time and i’ll be going through the mincer again before they’re finished, but i’m tough and i have good family backing, it’s a pity they have to live it all again though, i’m a little sad because my youngest cant take any more and has gone to live interstate, i’m sad for me but glad she at least can be a bit insulated, we’re survivers and tomorrow will be a brand new day, i dont want any trouble in PB’s i come and hide here when things start to drown me, Ron i truly believe in nemisis and the law of karma and that will be enough.
Finn, i’ve been upset by experts, tonights flea bite doesnt count, watch it though lol, i’ve turned the hose on a couple of journos on my front lawn at 6 am before now, peace, Judy.
am upset seeing effect on your family Judith , they’re probably th world to you and so should be , you know ‘help’ of many kinds and kindnes’s can come from unexpected plases …like PB , so there’s th email via william could try to that great gal Vera my friend whose a fair dinkum lady , so its only a flick of keys to do so , never know…cause could go to me as well …but I might lead you astray , so serous think about it its like a ‘phone’ call away , just an email awat reely
Those two statents are not contradictory.
To describe someone as using oily words is different to calling them a name.
It seems to me that you’re saying Obama is all talk and no action. Well I’m impressed so far. As to what he does the rest of the term I’ll make that assessment down the track. I’m not going to write him off before he even gets started. You may prove to be right Ron but that is yet to be determined IMHO.
Judy, the B**tards are getting to you. They are winning.
Ron most South Australians know who i am, Dio helped me with medical advice re my daughter, William also knows me, if he wishes he can send you the internet links about my son, i’ve nothing to hide, thats why i use my real name instead of a nick, please dont let it change anything if you get the links, debate with me and pull me into line if i step on your toes as i will you, cheers Judy.
Dio, it looks like it’s all over bar the shouting, Hill’s telling anyone who doesnt like it to go vote for the libs, i guess it all depends on just how anti the Marge you are, i dont think we’ll ever agree on this.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24959745-5006301,00.html
Gary Bruce I’ve called obama his oiliness , oily with words , with nuances . a guty brillant orator and i;’ve said maybe great politcal oroator ever …and so those orotorial words that do hav broad messages that capture people thinkin th same also hav th nuances meaning what he willa ctualky do is not specified , whereas less orotorial politcans ar forsed to be mor explisit and definite amd so there ‘promises’ ar more and measurible
(I’ve alos says he lacks some core ‘left policys , proved it and not been chalenged , and that his company of numerous undesirable people like corrupt Rezko shows poor judgemtn and standards and shown whom , and again those “asociations” i’ve stated hav not been chalenged either Thats reality
I call th abov a assessment of a politcan by his words , stated policys and actions Now If I understand you you call any of that ‘names’ or you wish to say what other ‘names’ I’ve said , and so if I assume I’ve understood your post because of that you will NOT take serious notise of my arguments , thats your right but I think you ar wrong to do so
You then say
“It seems to me that you’re saying Obama is all talk and no action”
That is untrue , th above is what my assessment was ot his electon Its improper to assume what he actualy will do , except i’ve noted th cautions as i hav every right to do pressures of Office responsibilty may make him ot forseehim to be made…th GFC for one has forsed him to abandon his own and almost all his econamic advisors ‘behavoural economic rationalism’ idialology (I can supply name & there thoughts by way) , and instead favor Keynesan pumping which is correct approach to GFC So i was right and Obama philosophicaly wrong , now he’s on th right (left) econamic philosophy side , somethinhg most americon politcans don’t like
You’ve preassumed wrongly my thoughts on a ‘to electon analysis , , he may grow into job , or like th GFC policy changes to his originol thoughts may be forsed on hi m , either way as long a there’s good outcomes
Judith , glad you’ve had some assistanse and don’t forget pb emailing if needed nothing lost nothing gained As for stepping on my toes well my mate diog has publicly blogged publicly i might add , his sinister plan for me is to end up on a stake ! , so I’ll tell him th toes torture is all yours …let th Labor wins anyway cheer you up
The reason why the Libs lost Frome is because MHS is not a capable leader (at the moment any way). There are plenty of LESSONS TO BE LEARNED for the SA Liberal Party, which means they can still win in 2010. It is a shame the SA Liberal Party doesn’t have a true statesman as their leader, they need someone like Colin Barnett. When you compare the SA Liberal Party to the WA Liberal Party there is a huge difference, state and federal divisions. The WA Liberal Party is a true success at the moment and is more organised, focused and better managed than the useless SA Liberal Party. I suggest MHS gets a few pointers from Colin Barnett if he wants to win in 2010.
SA is right next to WA, yet the two states vote in completely opposite ways. One state is very left-wing (SA) and the other state is very right-wing (WA).
Judith
Hill sounds a bit rattled. He’s gone for the “ad hominem” attack because doctors disagreed with him. To say their opinion doesn’t count because they are senior is pretty stupid. He’ll regret saying that when they wheel out doctors of every age to disagree with the Marj. Once again, the Government can’t find a compelling reason to sell their argument. It certainly looks like being a big election issue.
Bree, if you think the libs are going to win the next state election here, all i can say is dream on, they couldnt even hold a plum seat where the government had made some very unpopular descisions, Rann might abrade some people but he’s been a capable premier, he made me a promise once years ago and rare for a pollie he hasnt forgotten it, it’s in the pipeline now, the only holdup is a request from an official department to hold off for a while, theres bigger fish to fry, Rann has made tremendous steps forward in victimology, law and order, i dont know a lot about Barnett but i dont think he’s doing a very good job to date, he made far too many unsustainable promises to the the nats to get their support, promises he has no hope of keeping, still time will tell.
Dio, looks like we’ll get the Marge—that really is a stupid name and i guess when the dust settles down, the docs will settle in and do their jobs as always and forget the bun fight after time, well at least i hope so, being professionals they should do.
Judith
If they dumped the “Marj” name and kept it as the RAH, more than half of the opposition to the new hospital would disappear overnight. It’s dumb politics and it’ll cost them votes and seats. Still without an Opposition, they can afford to make plenty of mistakes.
Labor really needs to look at Hill’s performance. He’s done an appalling job of selling the new hospital. Do you know that in those pay disputes with the doctors that he actually gave the anaesthetists MORE pay than they asked for? He’s absolutely hopeless. I met him once and he seems nice enough.
Dio, Hill is one of the few pollies i dont know personally, i guess that might be to his relief lol, i’ve been told he takes his portfolio seriously but i dont really know, i must agree the Marge is a stupid name, they should have put it to the people, like had a contest or something, saying that i cant see why they should keep the royal in RAH, we will become a republic eventually, probably in the fairly soon future and the “royal” will become a tie from the past and really wont count.
Judith
That’s a good point about the Royal bit. Lots of staff just want it to be the Adelaide Hospital. The Ruddster doesn’t seem to be in too much of a hurry for us to become a republic, which is OK with me. I think it will be in his second term, when he’s got us through the GFC.
Ronster
I know we were disagreeing about whether Obi or Hillary would be responsible for stopping torture, “CIA black sites” and closing Gitmo. Fortunately, Obama did all those things in his first three days as President before Hillary was sworn in as SOS, so he can take sole credit. Hillary can take the credit when she organises lasting peace in the ME.
Is that before or after she turns water into wine
BTW Ron, I agree the choice of hilary smacks of tokenism.
I mean Hilary would never have stooped so low would she?
Dio, you may be interested in the paper version of the Sunday Mail today, theres a big two page write up about the RAH and the Marge, the fors and againsts of each, i agree Rudd will wait till his second term –but he will do it.
MHS obviously doesnt understand the voting system very well, he’s claiming there’s been a collapse in the labor primaries {they went to Brock} so now he thinks on that he’ll win the next election, someone had better whisper in his ear about a little thing called 2PP that actually caused a 2%swing to labor, fancy that, a party leader who doesnt understand the system.
Judith, maybe MHS is trying to fool his own party for self protection.
JB
Thanks for that. I went out and bought it. The articles were pretty “fair and balanced”. Hill is getting caned on the Adelaide Now website. He’s just digging a great big hole for himself which is starting to look like a grave.
Dio i get my SM gratis from my pal lol, boy they’re having a field day over on the Frome site, hey i even got a couple of blogs published, one way of passing a lazy sunday when theres only sport on the box.
Diogrones
a mere mention of our lady your heart fluttars & on your bile to Gittmo , and another of your libertarien myths of Obama I did dismantel previous to your dispairs Obama voted AGAINST closing Gittmo in Senate for oiliness reasons but reely to help his politcal suport/positining at time , other time avoided vote Then later ‘left’ Democrats later forsed him into line & when it suited him
Guess you’d already know with dispairs who I’m gonna say instead always voted in favor of closing gittmo unconditionaly , yep th lady , and th Jon Edwards and other true ‘left’ Democrats So flip flop Obama signs an order now to close , but not as a long term believing unconditional libertarien sad isn’t it to say , and so rustd on libertariens can cringe at this , whereas all sensable people can be happy that that disgrace to justise will finaly close with youse still myth creatin a fake 100% libertarien , but reely a ’success’ notched up for th true ‘left’ and your lady
bike
I,m not sure what kind of cloud cuckoo land Bree lives in but calling Barnett a statesman has got to be about the best laugh I have had for a while.
The man is Leader of a bunch of incompetents who is only in power because of the Nats,who are the real power,Buswell the chair sniffer does not have a clue,and the rest are a conflicted bunch who to put it mildly are hopeless.
They were helped into power by (a) The Labour party who are run by people who in anything other business would have been fired for gross incompetence,and then they added to this by putting the chief fool in charge,what they should have done is over the next 2 yrs pushed the front bench out or Parliament, and brought new younger people in,and Alanna should have been leader of the opposition,she can run rings around Bumbling Barnett,but then so could a smart 10 yr old, and(b) the uncompromising support and ridicule of The Worst(Editor has since let the building) and Beaumont and friends on 6 pr.
Barnett is a dimwit of the highest order and there’s a party of then behind him,WA Libs are only good at two things and one day if we are very unlucky we may find out what they are
South aussie proposed new hospial under fire , Obama-ites not only create libertarien myths of there man these intellegentsia create myths that a new modern Hospital is worser than refurbing a relic
First objection for intellegentsia is th ‘name’ (Marj) , as diog says 1/2 opposition wuld diminish if th “Marj” name was changed…..1/2 would diminish ? , what sort of priority is that , worrying about a name , I mean even if Rann da man called new Hospital th John howard” , so what , a new modern hospital with its benefts is more important than ‘progressive myths of politcal correctness of a name BTW whats wrong with a great aussie marjorie jackson anyway VS existing “royal’ name making Monarchisit smile and republicons wishin for a Republic , but side issue th name anyway
we want infrastucure spending , we want new mosdern hospitals and ’servises’ thats what Labor does as ’services’ been run down , and some people want to not praise but nit pick names….what put monies instead of a new modern hospital into tax cuts ala Kiberal way where progressive tax system means higher incomers get most money , hospitals service all peoples irespective of incomes
Same problam happened in Cairns when anna wanted new Hospital development ex airport monies Now redoing relic was looked at but costs vs benefit and public inconnvenience (read sick people not proparly attended to) was considerd unacceptable especialy health inconveniense and spending over 2 billion to refurb and ending up with a ‘repainted’ relic and not as big as new hospitl….and a Review was done Well onviousley th dissenters didn’t put up a plausable argument in Review ….and doctors opposition , do you exclusivly ask Lawyers to decide on public policy on th Law cause they know law….no , as there views ar not broad enough to cover all of our public’s intersts
Labor is delivering a new modern hospital, and tainting that over a ‘name’ or poor cost benefit anilysis just gets headlines to make Murdoch earn more
John Ryan
#600
John well said , you capturd foolishness of Bree calling “Barnett a statesman” perfectly , and suppose he’ll elevate Julie Bishop to th same level shortly
Can anyone explain Glen Milne and Julie Bishop’s logic in this bit from the Sunday Tele ?
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24958884-5014099,00.html
Wayne Swan states the bleedin’ obvious – our interest rates are 4% higher than the US.
Julie Bishop interprets this as Swan directing the RBA – when every “economist” has been saying there will be a rete drop in Feb. What does Julie want? an interest rate rise??
Good to see Milne back from holiday – still writing stuff that will not win him a Walkley.
Westpoll: 56-44 to Liberal in WA.
Ronster
1. The Generational Health Review never mentioned building a new Hospital. It recommended improving the existing peripheral hospitals so patients could be treated closer to home. John Hill is just lying about that.
2. The Marj will be smaller than the RAH. It’s being done to CUT BEDS. The RAH can house 1200 patients, although Labor and Lib governments have cut it down to 600. The QEH will close and lose it’s 350 beds. The Marj has 700 beds and 100 chairs which they pretend are beds.
3. There was NO consultation whatsoever with ANY group, medical or otherwise, about building the Marj, a fact which Rann freely admits to.
4. There is a lot of history and world-wide prestige associated with the RAH. It’s like Coca-Cola losing it’s brand name. The brand is very important in attracting overseas doctors, which we need as most doctors don’t want to work in the public health system.
5. The new name “Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital” is terrible and I haven’t met a single person who likes it. It’s too long, she’s not even South Australian, she’s done next to nothing for medicine and her greatest claim to fame is being able to run fast when she was a little girl. And it would appear that she is a megalomaniac to boot. We are home to Howard Florey, who co-invented penicillin. Some might suggest that he would be more worthy than a runner from NSW.
While we are talking SA health I have a little barny going on with Flinders Medical Centre, these guys are world beaters in research.
One of the “prognostic markers” in my disease is FMC-7 it is used world wide.
But the main prognostic indicator is the mutation status of the immuno gobulin variable heavy chain. This test is only available in Australia at the FMC. But if you live outside of Adelaide you cannot get it done. (I sent blood to Southampton Uni in the UK – to get a result – non-mutated = bad).
There answer is we are using the test as a research tool not for clinical use, geez if they tested everyone diagnosed in Oz it would be less than 5 tests a week.
End of whinge.
A very happy Australia Day to all and also a very happy and prosperous New Year (tomorrow as well) to our Chinese Friends, tis the Year of the OX. The barbie and the Yum Cha will be flying and frying tomorrow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ox_(zodiac)
Aboriginal leader Mick Dodson has been named 2009 Australian of the Year.
and won’t that upset our conservative friends and associated media commentators
Especially as he beat Glenn McGrath.
To be fair to McGrath his foundation is doing important work funding breast care nurses, but Dodson has has spent his entire life advocating equality.
Jonty Bush is young Australian of the year, she joined the Queensland victim support group after her sister was murdered, she becane CEO of the homicide support section of the group, how many people realise the first victim support group in the world started in dear old Adelaide in 1980, it was run all by volunteers for years out of a church hall and later on offices owned by the church, Chris Summner when he was AG took a paper written by a victim family to a U.N. victimology symposium and read it out, all the other delegates from other countries took the idea back with them and so the idea became world wide, a pebble is thrown into a pond and the ripples spread.
Yes, I am aware of that – but watch the OO and others accuse Rudd of “Political Correctness” in light of the apology for the decision.
Lee Kernaghan is all I can say.
That looked like a legacy of Howard to appease the Nationals Vote over Telstra being sold off
ruawake
Mick Dodson is a worthy winner, much more so than a few previous winners esp one from a few years ago. I’ll say no more.
I’ll bet anything that Janet A or one of her ilk will point out that 8/50 winners have been indigenous.
I used to work with Heddy Zola, who helped develop the FMC7 test. It would have been part of the huge CRC on surface antigens. I agree that as it has proven prognostic significance, and was developed using CRC money that it should be available to all Australians as it was Federal money, not SA money that funded it. Heddy is a lovely man and I’m sure he would make it available if he could.
Given that the cahir of the committee that decides has been
Adam Gilchrist – current
Lisa Curry Kenny 2000 – 2008
Kevan Gosper 1996 – 2000
Phillip Adams 1992 – 1996
John Newcombe 1990 – 1992
Its amazing that any non sporty type got the gong.
Diog
Its not FMC7, that is available worldwide thanks to Flinders, it is IgVH . If I lived in Adelaide and my heamatologist requested the test it would be done by FMC.
As I live in Qld I have to arrange for my blood to be shipped to the UK in 3 days (thanks DHL and QML).
But it will change.
I don’t think you’ll have to go so far to the right as Andrew Bolt and Janet Albrechtsen in search of displeasure at Mick Dodson’s gong. There is an enormous amount of popular goodwill toward Glenn McGrath at this very moment, whereas only the committed left will be enthused about Dodson, who can be seen here wearing a Malcolm X T-shirt. They will regret not giving it to McGrath and holding Dodson over until next year.
“The Rudd government is buying off the left with symbolic gestures while it pursues conservative policies.” Discuss.
and according to the Perth Now article:
Prof Dodson, 58, is the eighth Aborigine to receive the honour. The last was Olympic gold medallist Cathy Freeman in 1998.]
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24961036-948,00.html
hmm, so the last Indigineous Winner was 11 years ago, and prior to that 6 years previously was Manduway Yunipingu.
the 5 people are:
1971 Evonne Goolagong AO MBE born 1951 tennis player
1978 (joint recipients)
Alan Bond born 1938 businessman
Galarrwuy Yunupingu born 1948 AM native title activist
1979 (joint recipients)
Neville Bonner AO 1922-1999 first Aboriginal elected to the Parliament of Australia
Harry Butler CBE born 1930 naturalist
1984
Lowitja O’Donoghue AC CBE born 1932 Aboriginal health worker; inaugural chairperson of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (1990-1996)
1992
Mandawuy Yunupingu born 1956 singer, Yothu Yindi
1998
Cathy Freeman OAM born 1973 athlete; also Young Australian of the Year in 1990
2009
Mick Dodson AM born 1950 Indigenous Leader
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_of_the_Year_Award_recipients
Alan Border
Mark Taylor
Steve Waugh
I guess its Pontings turn sooner or later.
Apology if this has already been raised but Tony Abbott has now made it his mission to annoy the normally right wing voting RSL types with his comments comparing Howard’s medal of freedom to Donaldson’s VC:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2009/01/24/1232471652076.html
Is there any way Labor can pay Abbott some kind of ratainer or advance to keep writing such stuff?
Socrates
Yep it has been raised, Tony is playing to his power base.
William 618
Regarding Rudd’s symbolic gestures, sadly I must agree up to a point. Obama’s actions since inauguration have underlined that Rudd hasn’t done that much on tackling “difficult” (i.e. potentially unpopular) issues.
To be fair it could be argued that Rudd had less of a mandate than Obama, no senate majority and is now constrained by the GFC. But I don’t think that is sufficient excuse. Rudd seems to separate social (progressive) and economic issues quite sharply. He does not seem keen to move on issues that cross both. Hence only the easy (low impact/popular) social issues get addressed.
at the end of the day Rudd is a politician, not necessarily a change agent. He might yet make a good reformer, but we don’t know.
Perhaps the faux-inner city “leftists”. But it’s working.
ruawake, if you feel this rule about your treatment needs changing then do it, drive your local pollies mad, there must be others with the same problem, track them down, band with them, stir up a fire about it, use the media, they’d use you soon enough, find someone who’se well known or in authority to help you, bang on doors, create a fuss, go to Canberra and lobby the pollies there, sound off till someone listens to you, nothing will change until you make it change, believe me it’ll take time but if you create enough fuss it’ll change to your benefit, at times you’ll wonder if it’s worthwhile but you’ll get your wind back and you’ll start again, if you’ve beaten the path it’ll be easier for those following you, believe me it’s worthwhile, there’ll come a day when you’ll look in wonder at what an ordinary person in need can bring about.
Socrates, Rudd has had his hands rather full trying to counteract the meltdown ever since he’s come into power, i think thats going to take most of this term, i expect the changes will begin to appear next term when the dust has settled.
Who needs a Republic when we need to focus on the economy and to survive a recession this year???
Becoming a Republic would also cost millions of dollars…what a waste of money!
God Save the Queen!
Let us remember that it was the British who colonised Australia and that saved us from speaking Dutch or French…
Glen,
Burp or fart! Not sure what I just did.
Judith my local pollie is Alex Somlyay – enough said – my greatest help is Queensland Medical Labs.
I have a “rare cancer” only 1-100,000 people will get it and of these most will be men over 70. So its the “good cancer” (thats why I admonished Diog for repeating the mantra).
I am the admin for the largest support group for CLL in the world, it is tough when a member dies every two weeks.
So to cut a long story short, what you say is entirely correct, but I am ill. I have an incurable disease, where no treatment has been shown to reduce mortality.
The only question is “how long do you think I will live” ?
The answer to this question is available in the UK and the USA – I will not rest until it is answered here as well.
Of course William is right as usual. The apology, Kyoto, Dodson and the “Iraq Withdrawal” were all sops to us on the left but they are largely meaningless in terms of actually delivering anything.
Rudd is almost as Conservative as Howard…and his Prime Ministership has been centre-right except for his symbolic gestures mainly because he ran for PM as a Centre-Right (except for IR) he ran as a conservative and won over the people because he wasnt a radical like Gillard…
Rudd is almost like our Tony Blair…
I wonder what the Howard govt would be doing now if they had been re-elected?
Probably nothing – Costello would be saying tax cuts, tax cuts and the Nats would be in a queue to get funding for pork oops infrastructure funding.
Howard would be saying that lower interest rates were all his doing and that petrol prices were pushed down by a secret cabinet plan.
The states (except WA) would be the nasties causing all our ills, and Obama would be the devil incarnate for funding “family planning”.
Glen Milne would be lauding the budget moving to deficit, and the Bolt will have moved on from climate change to immigration.
Why does Labor get elected to sort out the mess left by the Right?
ruawake, then lobby the medical labs to begin with hon, i know all too well how hard it is to drive yourself when all you want to do is curl up and block everything out, see if you can get the medical teams to back you, Dio isnt there something your friend can do? depression is your worse enemy, i know i reached suicidal level once, you lose someone every few weeks then concentrate on those still alive, look whats been done against immense odds for the asbestos group, search for someone who is healthy in authority or the family of someone who needs the same treatment to help, you dont have to do it alone, you cant do it alone but you can light the fire, ok i’ll shut up now, it’s easy for those not involved to give advice, the worse thing anyone can say to me is “i know how you feel” because they bloody dont— just as i’m dishing all of this out to you and i dont know how you feel, i’ll try sending you positive vibes though it’s all i can do, Judy.
Thanks Judy
sorry, i should have minded my own business, i meant well.
Glen accept it or not Australia will become a republic in the not so distant future, it’s inevitable.
VERA
Another first exclusive for PB :
ruawake
Posted Sunday, January 25, 2009 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
#608
“Aboriginal leader Mick Dodson has been named 2009 Australian of the Year”
Ron
Posted Saturday, January 24, 2009 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
#561
Vera “…Reckon Vera it would be reel appropriate after Appology last year to go with your great idea of an Aboriginal aussie of year…now learned briggade will corect if its they’ve had this honour before , but for me Pat Dodson , very wise man when hear , some don’t listen a 2nd time but should as 2nd time when you do he is even wiser and realistic as an “aboriginal australian”
So Vera , whilst th intellectual elitists don’t read culture posts , seems Ruddy does….th beard always throws me between Pat and Mick
Judy
No offence taken, we had hopes when Ed Bradley the host of the US 60 minutes died of CLL but alas no.
The percussionist from Frank Zappa’s mothers, alas no.
The Shah of Iran – well who cares.
I appreciate your comments, thank you, Love and Hugs
Ron
Posted SATURDAY, January 24, 2009 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
#561
Vera “…Reckon Vera it would be reel appropriate after Appology last year to go with your great idea of an Aboriginal aussie of year…now learned briggade will corect if its they’ve had this honour before , but for me Pat Dodson , very wise man when hear , some don’t listen a 2nd time but should as 2nd time when you do he is even wiser and realistic as an “aboriginal australian”
Vera , th beard always throws me between Pat and Mick , but ruddy must hav read our conversation and agreed dodson was to be aussie of year
ruawake
I’m more than happy to talk to Heddy if you want. I know plenty of oncologists and haematologists who I could lobby if you want. Just say the word.
Glen
Margaret Thatcher was asked what her greatest legacy was a few years ago. Her answer was “Tony Blair”.
John Howard may well answer that question “Kevin Rudd” after a few more electoral wins.
i’m mentally going through anyone i know but unfortunately my stirring wasnt in the medical profession, i just wish there was something i could do, since Clive Cameron died i dont know any pollies in the federal sphere, just South Australian state pollies.
Diog, Judy
email me at admin@cllforum.com I hope that Polly Bludgers will excuse my indulgance.
Looks like William is going to be right on the money. Why do I ever doubt him
OUCH!
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24961856-5005962,00.html
William
#618 your opinion said there
you hav got my post in moderaton saying that last nite in #561 where I said to Vera I thought Pat Dodson wuld be th appropriate Australian of Year Mixed up Pat and Mick there with beards , as Mick who I meant , although Pat has also contributd
Don’t agree with your point on Glen McGraph , thats too early Mick Dodson was heavy involver in appoplogy leadership and WAS th Aboriginal spokesman at Nationol press Club that day after representing Aboriginal reponse to th rudd apology Its not symbolic but recogniton of what Ddson prevous done including th pre appology involvemen and post it
whereas Glen is 2nd best oz fast bowler ever , and that can be done next year if he produces (as he will) more kick to Jane McGragh’s previous cancer work it was Jane who set it up with michael Bevan’s wife helping and those 2 women produced most of worlk and results, not Glen So making Micjk Dodson next year wuld be out of kilter with Micks pre and post appology work (excl his prev work) ,
and making glen this year would also be out of kilter , with Glen now fulltime only about to work on Jane’s foundation filltime
done
Seems Pat Dodson gave th press address , so for me either Dodson were worthy and its damn very ‘ordinary’ to say its symbolic seeing what they’ve both contributed
theres nobody who can be chosen who’ll please everyone, theres a lot of worthy people in OZ and they cant all be chosen, everyone will have a different opinion, congratulations to this years recipients.
Anyone who knows Mick Dodson’s story will know he will make a very good representative for Australia. He’ll cop some criticism from his own community for looking like he’s supporting “New South Wales/colonialism” day. Interesting that Pat Dodson was also there as WA nominee for Elder Australian of Year. We have moved on from needing to be a Sir to be Australian of the Year in the sixties but we haven’t moved on from sporting people dominating the system. Its time we also moved on from Jan 26 – its not Australia Day. A pity that the Federation people chose New Years Day to start Australia as that muddles things up a bit.
Wakefield , I’m obvously happy with a dodson getting it seeing i suggestd it beforehand , however see nothing wrong with sporting people dominating it , thats our culture and overwhelming majority see it that wat like witness melbourne cup day all us involved , whereas for other countrys there emphasis is diferent Now for non sportings its a problam , but thats our Country including all PM’s except maybe PK
As for 26th Jan , well it will never change anyway , and why should it , thats when modern austrlia as we NOW it started , thats when th change started from so celebrating it is completely apropriate , and most aboriginol leaders like Dobson and Noel Pearson see themselves as aboriginal australians & 26th Jan not serous problam Wakefield guys like Michael Mansell represent foolish grandstanding & a hurdle to reconcilaton and understanding & he ilk is not part of solution vs a Mick Dodson an aboriginal austrlian as Australian of year ON 26th
Jan is part of recognising 26th Jan process of one australia inclusive of Aboriginol australians as futures , not Mancell who keeps lokking backwards at 26th jan with bad vibes Agree with your comment about no more “Sir” ’s , …Gough
For those concerned with accuracy
Australia Day is a recognition of the proclaiming of the colony of NSW (they actually proclaimed on 25th)
No sane person would ,in the spirit of reconcilliation, wants to keep “invasion day”.
The best day would be in may/june
Ron. I also don’t have a problem with sports people having a significant role – but not too loaded. Its not just the Michael Mansells of the world who have a problem with Australia Day being Jan 26. Just about without exception political leaders in SA, NT and WA have to swallow hard to see the relevance of Jan 26 and now with Ron Barassi and plenty of sports people having similar opinions perhaps some change will come. Fact of life that Australia started on 1 January 2001. Unless there is national agreement on an alternative then that is what should be Australia Day dont you think?
Gusface,
They landed in Sydney Cove on the 26th. Hence the date of Australia Day.
Wakefield,
Don’t forget that there was an Australian national identity well before 1901 – it just wasn’t a legal entity.
Having said, if the day has to move, the 1st of January would be the best date. Except (I guess) it would mean one less day off!
Dyno
I read somewhere that the actual reading of the proclaimation was conducted on 25th (will find source later)
I asked my history teacher many many moons ago why,considering the first fleet made landfall at Botany bay,that date was not used. I never got a satisfactory answer.Anyone know whywe dont use the Botany Bay landfall date?
Gusface , th british flag was first hung up there in oz on 26th Jan 1788 Celebrations subsequently were celebrations of that event ….of first landing on oz shore that day th 26th and putting flag up
any sane person wuld want to retain 26th January as Australia Day , thats when white settlemetn on oz shore started , and FROM which changed th continent owards what it is , our oz today Thats reality of our history that no sane person should run from , nor will majority of austrlians run from or try to change th date Purpose of apology was in part to recognise what was displaced but not to hide it but to bring Aborginol austrlians in as one part of one australia ie what post 26th january 1788 has produced , oz today , reality todays ….”invasion day” wishs as th disroptive Mansell wants, is to alternatively maintain a pre 26th jan 1788 “permanent” hatred , chips on shoulder &antipathys …otherwise why do you tink Micj Dobson accepted australian of th year unless he & many Aboriginal leaders also thought along my lines , move forward and embrace what we now hav , a great oz country & respectful of there cultures
18th jan supply-botany bay,rest of fleet 2 days later
25 jan supply- port jackson (sydney)
Phillip had taken longboats from 21 jan to survey port jackson
Wakefield
Just saw your post
“I also don’t have a problem with sports people having a significant role – but not too loaded.” I agree with your opinion wakefield , i’d mistook your earlir coment as i’ve debated with many who object to any sports people at all , and feel they do belong signifiantly as sport so so big part of our culture vs other coiuntrys Yes you ar right whilst love cricket I didn’t feel Mark Taylor for egcould be best that year he got it , and also add that committee is abit unbalansed
About ist Jan a date , I partly answered that in #655 to gusface that i feel 26th January should be celebrated for reason thats first day people got on shore and also when flag wnt up I do concede ou hav a good point Wakefield that
celebration of our Nation forming is also appropriate like US bit on there ‘Day’ My personal preferense would be to very serously celebrate BOTH for what they actualy ar , and what actualy took place on those days (first landing vs Nationhood) as don’t tink our history highlites signifiance of ist jan enough , but think i’d be in minority as ‘change’ is dificult to achieve over tradition
Ron
It looks like Dodson seriously considered declining the Award.
BTW I agree that we shouldn’t change Australia Day, although I can certainly see how indigenous people feel. Basically, indigenous people lost a war to an invading British force, which is how most of history works. We can’t expect them to like it but nothing will change it.
hi Ron
Don’t worry about getting mixed up about who has the beard, you aren’t the only one, I had to ask the other half if Mick or Pat was the bearded one.
I been on the road all day so just read your tip for a dodson to win. well picked amigo
I think it was a great choice.
Just saw Dokic win and is now through to the quarter finals, Gutsy girl, she can be next year’s aussie of the year.
Diogenes
#658
“Ron
It looks like Dodson seriously considered declining the Award.:
‘Prof Dodson said he was anxious about accepting the nomination but eventually decided it was in the best interests of the country.’
diog , you hav admitted being a ‘Shanahan’ apprentice , and that was pure Shanahan “art”
You quoted he said “he was ANXIOUS about accepting the nomination” , but blah blah… So he did NOT say he was tinking of declining at all What he wuld hav serously thought about and so was quote “anxous” was th reaction of nutters like Mansell faction charging him as a collaborating tyope white , someting Mansell has prevously accuseed both Dobsons of prevously , and that effect of such publisised claims that wuld be headlined would undermine reconcilaition process
FACT that he DID accept it means what I sugested , he sees 26th Jan as part of oz history process from which 26th Jan reely started that process and he’s embracing a future , and if he thought for a second in his mind that quote 26th Jan was an “invasion day” & maintian th Mansell rage i guarantee you he wuld hav declined , and its not rspectful of micj dodson to think otherwie (not that you were suggesting that I realize)
Ron
I’m sure that’s what Dodson meant. I wonder if the previous indigenous winners felt they would have to worry about the “nutters”. He said that Australia Day should be changed from 26/1 though. His comment was that lots of his fellows viewed 26/1 as “invasion day”, which I can totally sympathise with.
Whether or not Mick thought twice about accepting the award he looks pretty happy holding it up along side Kev who is being a dork giving the thumbs up.(said with affection not malice as I’m rather fond of the Ruddster)
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/aussies-take-a-break-from-turmoil/2009/01/25/1232818241638.html
Vera
#659
“hi Ron I been on the road all day so just read your tip for a dodson to win. well picked amigo
Don’t worry about getting mixed up about who has the beard, you aren’t the only one, I had to ask the other half if Mick or Pat was the bearded one.
I think it was a great choice.”
and Vera , it was you i remeber saying first you thought it wuld be great idea to pick an Aboriginal leader , so I just followed your smart idea lead Vera in pickin one Yep a magnifient choise fro this Country , and i always staggered at intelectals swooning over oils Obama and yet here in our country we hav a few dodsons & others to b equaly proud of , and not just talk but actualy done things
Anyways Vera thanks for lead th other nite
And i promise one nite to tell you a true story of th Michael Long from first hands , of dignity with greatness
Ron that little statement proves you have no concept of How important Obi’s win was
Hint-think of the apology and magnify 1000 times
Ron Being a NSWelshman and a Swan supporter (that’s Sydney Swans not Wayne the worlds best treasurer) I’m a fan of another Michael, O’Loughlan that is he’s a sweetheart, and Adam Goodes is a favorite of mine as well.
Was Michael Long the one who in reply to racist taunts from the crowd lifted his jumper and pointed to his black skin. It became a famous photograph.
Talking of Obama, on Cactus Island (different place to Gilligans Isle) they call him Barack Oh-Bummer and they have him saying “All men are created equal. It’s just that white guys’ peckers never reach adulthood ”
http://www.cactus.com.au/index.htm
Nope, that was Nicky winmar – former St Kilda Footy Player.
Why drag gayFL into a political blog, rubbish game, expat followers in Sydney and propped up by the Gay FL in Melbourne, so a a bunch of lonely expats and some in the Eastern Suburbs don’t have to mix with the lower classes
Thanks Frank
Have a go at this.
someone should tell Rebecca Keenan we had an election a year back and we got a new much improved PM now. At least Shamahambles and co admit to Howard being gone.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a7zw8J2RJe3E&refer=australia
John Ryan
How unaustralian-my da played for subiaco and fathered six kids,he was no cream puff
gayfl indeed-now soccer is another matter
Vera , an immortal quote indeed !!
Yes Frank is corect , Winmar’s gesture was defianse etc , what Long did was publicly chalenge on a footy gtround in front of 50,00 a Collingwood guY Monkhouse over a racial taunt It was a moment cause Long was a known quiet but brillant footballer and because th ‘chalenge’ was prolonged at clearly caught on live TV camera , and continously replayed They made up later both private and public , a ‘code’ was more enforsed , and highlited aboriginol racial discriminaton tp public in way it could reely understand , thru a champion footy plaayer So John relevance of footy here is in its effect FOR aboriginols , although happy to talk footy at anytime even without an excuse to be honest
Gusface there’s no 1000 apologies nonsense at all , a myth only Realitys for you ar any Democrat (providing he ran a clever campaign & was articulate , and obama did both ) was goin to defeat th most disliked Republicon POTUS in hisary whether he was black or white , a fact you may find gallingly true ….and statsticaly and know youse myth lovers don’t like facts but on actual polls GFC also played big part You mix intelectual myht with politcal reality , Obama did not win because he was black and if he’d lost it would nott hav been becasue he was black , times favourd a Democrat 9obviously given Bush was th comparison) Same reason an Obama wuld not hav defeated Ronald Reagan in 80’s either , politcal tides come and go for Partys and his being black would not hav been a cause
Now if one reely wants to look at a defining black leader in racial terms it was Martin Luther King , revered by all US blacks and with justificaton
Geez ron if I didnt know better,I would have thought that line was from the KKK
A irrelvant red herring talking points attemppt as a slur doesn’t change politcal reality does it You may not be able to deel with a politcal inspired result that th times favourd a Democrat black or white pprovided they were a clever camaigner and articulate plus GFC effect helped , (and that by chanse somehow Obama had of lost it still wuld not hav been a black race reason either …not that politcal tides suggested that could happen given Bush (read Republicon) was point guard of what voters needed to vote against
You wish instead to create your own flawed myth of a ‘race’ win for which there is no politcal substanse , and one liner KKK slurs hardly advanses logic of your case reely
Ron
may the “black” man always know his place eh-bugger history
Gusface
I’ve made two posts (#670 and #672) which any objective person can see is politcal assesment based , to clearly rebut your original ‘racial win’ blog showing it lacked politcal credibility
In fact my argument standards had it been Hillary , and then I wuld hav said (as with Obama black ) she won not because she was a women ( but also becausee politcal times etc favourd a Democrat , if a clever campaigner & articlator plus GFC AND I wuld hav said if she’d unlikely lost (not likely given Bush was POTUS a Republicon) then if would not hv been because he was a women
So a hillary win or loss would be not because she was a women ie won or lost politcaly but for th same politcal reasons why I listed for Obama wuld not hav been a ‘gender’ win , even though historic in sense she was first , but sane people wuld NOT hav gone gah gah over it swooning that women had been recognised from slaverys of men geez well past that nonsense (but not perect yet) for women and black peoples ..who both hav earned recognition on there ability irrespectiv of being a black or a women or even a Ron
Your resort in face of my assessed polital realityies , was then in your last 2 posts to try racial black type KKK slurs , which ar irrlevant to my poltical reasons and reely indicate , well …..
Enjoy Australia Day , its started , and as courtesy goodnite
Vera, i’ll put my beloved crows up against your swans any time.
Hi judith, at least we have in common that both our teams are of the feathered variety. Crows & Swans, probably suits us us pair of old chooks what do you reckon.
I love journalists:
The headline:
the quote:
and how fortuitous for Bolt to come back from holidays to trash Dodson.
Apparently he thinks the Australian of the year committee is a govt stacked one – presumably because the Secretary of Immmigration and a Dep Sec of PM&C are 2 of the 8 members.
http://www.australianoftheyear.org.au/pages/page15.asp
sigh.
Vera i agree wholeheartedly lol.
would the real Glenn Milne please stand up, this article is too reasonably well balanced to be written by him.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24961777-7583,00.html
Grog, most journos are an unethical amoral lot, i’ve got nothing but contempt for most of them and that includes journos of all types not just political, i could tell you stories of some of their practices that would make your hair curl, the motto is “why spoil a good story with the truth” the ordinary news journos bask in dramatic headlines and story’s that bear no relation to the truth and the political journos delight in stirring up strife where theres none, they use inflammatory headlines to make supposition seem fact and trouble where theres not, every now and then you strike gold, the late Matt Price was one, a great journo and a decent person, in Adelaide we have a reasonable political journo in Mike Smithson but these apolitical ones are few and far between, the only reason Dolly Downer gets his monday stint in the Advertiser is because its payback, when a certain editor was based in Canberra Dolly fed him political leaks, so now we have to tolerate Downers fatuious ramblings to pay for it, believe me over the years i’ve had a great deal to do with journos from australia wide host down, most are tarred with the same brush.
Kim Beasley scored an AC in the Australia Day Honours List. Pathetic.
Ron@674
All your backtracking and “muddying” of the waters,confirm my earlier assesment
I suggest you actually speak to a few “blackfellas” and see what reaction you get when you call obi “oiliness”.
I am saddened that you think aborigines are great “sporting” models (and seemingly thats all they are good for) and that an intelligent popular african american is “oiliness”,but I suppose reading all that KKK literature does that to you eh ron.
Gusface
Blackfellas like us whitefellas are also proud of black sporting heros and I don’t recall Ron saying that’s all they are good for. It seems you are the one who has suggested that and your hyphenated blackfellas says a lot. No need for hyphens, trying to emphasise the word as though you are being daring using it. For chrissake I grew up with and my best mate is aboriginal and they call themselves blackfellas and us whitefellas and putting emphasses on one and not the other is a hidden form of rasism IMHO.
In fact Ron has been full of praise for the Dobsons and they aren’t known for their sporting prowess.
Back on “Australia Day”. Does anyone know of another colonised country which has its national day celebrating – I doubt there are many.
Try again. Does anyone know of another colonised country which has its national day celebrating the start of colonisation – I doubt there are many
Canada’s national day is the day the four provinces became one country.
New Zealand’s national day is kind of the opposite of ours, it celebrates the Treaty of Waitangi which enshrined Maori civil rights.
I reckon Malcolm is on a hiding to nothing with this approach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24962641-601,00.html
Why?
Gusface,
So, Ron’s criticism of Obama makes him a closet racist who takes his cues from KKK literature?
What a pathetic argument.
You are indeed making a fool of yourself, Gusface.
Gary, Malcolm’s ideas just get weirder and weirder, who else would advocate a threat to 50,000 jobs in this economic crisis? that was on top of his way out CC scheme, i’m wondering if he’s having a mid life crisis of his own.
William, I was going to ask much the same question. I think Dio has overlooked the work Beazley has done over his political life, not just the last few years.
William and Gary
My main problem is that the AC is the highest award in the Honours list. Kim Beasley is only one of many politicians who have worked for the public good over many years. He has made quite a few contributions esp as Defence Minister, but so have many other politicians from both sides of the fence.
Are all of those politicians who have made as much of a contribution to Australia going to receive an AC? Most politicians don’t receive any Award, let alone the AC. Or does that only go to politicians who have been kicked out as leader of a Party which wins the next election? Are the Honours there to make Rudd and Beasley feel better about what happened?
It is political cronyism of the highest order. I think it cheapens the Award by politicising it. It’s exactly what would happen in Yes Minister.
Well yeah they should.. given me a list of those who have done as much as he has over as many years. I think you’ll find it’s a damn small list.
Not many politicians get them – have a look at this year’s list. Most pollies need to put in as many years as Beazley did. It’s hardly “political” – he is no longer a politician, and it doesn’t give him any money like say an appointment to the UN etc.
The Bomber deserves the nod; he was a good one.
William and Gary
In the interests of fairness, I went back and looked at the CVs of previous politicians who had won an AC. All the PMs (except Keating who has never even had an OAM, presumably he declined) have won ACs. Quite a few deputy PMs, Foreign Ministers and long-serving Party leaders have won them.
So given Beasley’s short time as Deputy PM, his long-term Leadership of the Opposition and time as Defence Minister, I am happy to say I stand corrected and that Beasley deserves the AC, based on precedent. I was wRONg.
So I guess Downer will get one one day…
who else?
Roddick? – very long service.
Costello? – somehow I doubt it.
Crean?? – the honour’s site is down at the minute, but I’d say he probably is already AM from his union days (he and Garrett are probably the only MP with an AM for service done before going into politics)
National days. The following site has most nations listed with a reason for National Day. Australia along with some other countries is missing. Can’t see any that emulate Australia in celebrating a colonial settlement date. Commonwealth of Australia well worth celebrating but on a day which has national recognition – not just the colony of New South Wales?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day
Hear, hear.
But, it’ll never be changed.
So the best we can do is ignore the tradiitonal reaosn and just make it about celebrating whatever we like about Australia – you know the vibe…
Yeah, but you used to be able to have a picnic in Hyde Park without being mobbed by drunk bogans draped in Aussie flags.
Like a good Aussie, my missus took me to see “Australia” on Australia Day. i am normally not one for our Nic, but i have to say that i really enjoy Australia and our Nic.
I agree with those bloggers who question the celebration of Australia Day on 26/1.
From Timeless Land by Eleanor Dark. Wunbula was the father of Bennilong. I can understand how Wunbula felt that day. He knew, his paradise was lost forever on that moment on the arrival of the magic boat. And now, his people are asked to celebrate the day that Wunbula’s paradise was lost. It does not make sense to me. It has to be a better way and better day.
Malcolm better watch his back
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24950285-662,00.html
Gusface, we coined Obama’s oiliness because he came from Chicago and a true Chicago type politician. The oiliness was referring to that classic advertise for a certain lubricant oil where a gangster character was uttering the classic line “Oil ain’t oil”. It has nothing to do with his colour or race. Best of luck to the IT industry.
Malcolm Turnbull is a republican, hence, the Australian people will reject him in 2010 for that stance, because Australians want to remain a constitutional monarchy.
funny that, Rudd wants a republic and intends us to have one and yet his popularity stays at unprecedented levels, either way we’ll end up with a republic.
No way! Anyone that wants a republic should move out of the country. IF IT AIN’T BROKE, DON’T FIX IT!
Bree, I thought that was the only reason the Liberals chose Turnbull as Leader. So the Liberals could lead us into a republic. You knew that when you chose him as leader though Bree, didn’t you?
Hello diog
Every time i just log in you giv me a new line , today it was quote “I was wRONg.” , thats about 6 unique your ones I’ve copied now , and all just “diog-ronian”
Anyways on serous notes , thanks diog for your earlier blog about race , and also to my friend Vera th magnificents , for also doing so
And diog on Mick dodson where i suggested with youse last nite why I thought Mick dodson said he was initially “anxious” about th Award , like with Mansell nutters accusing him of white collabaration (and our nutter Mansell has done this before publicly to both Micj and Pat dodson ) , we today hav a headline that Mick also wuld hav been “anxous” may come out NO MATTER what he said :
“Mick Dodson wants Australia Day date changed”
A disgraseful misquote wording of what he meant and said , here’s a aboriginal australian obviously embracing 26th Jan as date when oz as we know know it today started from , and so celebrating what we ar now as an oz including apologys & reconciliaton process’s started to move forwards , (and he IS biggger than th Mansell’s who don’t understand this is what Australia day is) , and Mick dodson understands that very well …THATS why he accepted award with pride , now of couse there IS undarlying Aboriginol feeling about th 26th Jan we all sensibly understand , which th Mick dodsons ar trying to articulate to his peoples why it CAN be celebrated…but thats a dificult long process , cause th first 150 years variousley not good for aboriginols due to th 26th Jan (white settlement) starting also that bad side for Aboriginals process also
So there’s THREE very opposite competing mesages to aboriginees AND to many ‘left’ Australians We hav th Mansell nutters repreesentin th most extreme anti 26th Jan view for Aborinigees …all that is bad and keep hatreds forever , and maintain sense forever of antipathy resentments That Mansell view undrmines aboriginals desire to ‘reconcile”Its a message to nowhere Then secondley there is th ’some left’ Australian anti 26th Jan slitely diferent , where I disagree with and oh most here may wsh to string me to a stake for heresy This ’some left’ view is we invaded , we did bad things , we caused great hurts (and whilst thats all true) and what ? change th Day , but that won’t change what actualy happened , that wont change that was day whites first set foot here , that is revers howardism denying what was , histary his view not only denies history of factualy what happened but seeks to make our 26th Jan celebraton a US celebrating we invade and us also celebrating we did past harm to Aboriginols But that is not th 26th , Australia Day is celebrating
i believe th 26th Jan is worth celebrating but my way is not easy road & a road where one liners can be easily thrown as an ‘thoughtful argument’ … but it is a road ahead to a positive 26th Jan future despite majority view here maybes disagreeing with me , actualy feel perhaps so is Mick Dodson thinking somewhere on my road as well ……seeing FACTUALY Mick dodson DIDS accept Austrlian of Year fo what day ? yes THAT th 26th Jan Day , and it is reflekting yea we understand that there was settlement from overseas peoples & it hurts and its often hurt since , but look at what from th 26th Jan 1788 that has now produced , that was th day it started from so lets not forget that and now what , an oz a wonderful country for us all , & with via applogy & reconciliaton etc we can look forward so in that sense its worth celebrating , and we Australians including Aboriginal Australians should be doing so
Its a fine line this 26th Jan bit between th three competings , and it needs leadership from Leaders from both Parliamentary and Aboriginl areas to smooth this forward
IF as I suspect in long time , an attempt is made to change to 1st jan , what do you tink th Mansell nutters ar gonna say….white man trying to insult us now worse by changin dates , a slite of hand ….so now instead of 26th Jan when we came its now 1st Jan when those white men formalised there take over of our lands So ist Jan may satisfy a tech point of celobrating ‘Australia Day’ on actual day we became ‘Australia’ , a sovereign country…but reely does not solve th Mansell charge AND in fact it may actualy inflame antithathy feelings of white formalisation control by us Aboriginees by whites declaring themselves a new ‘Country’ called Australia (therebys dispossesing th former “Country”) So ist Jan may create m,ore problams than it solves
I personaly favor celebrating both , for what actualy happened on both days , and with ist Jan given more dominanse…not sure howebver how a double public hiolidays works like if same as double penalty time…like we get 2nd Jan off as a holiday as well or not
And so to that false headline , when dodson actualy said we should hv ‘a conversation about that’ , now he said no more , just a conversation about it but MSN falsely assumes what he meantt or what he’d hav a conversaton aqbout and such scandl reporting inflames negatively on th 26th Mansell’s wuld just love that rotten headline Perhaps Pat dodson may even been thinking that 26th could include th appology type day ceremony done every 26th Jan …like where th Aborigin elder in parliament house gav th leaves and all and perhaps do that equivalent as posible every 26th jan , an anyway Mick Dodson’s actual thoughts on a conversation yet to be held and with whoever ar factually unknown , even to that Reporter
So i celebrate 26th today our Australia Day , of th date that commenced where we actualy ar today a wonderful country , although more is to be done and reckon th very worthy on merit Austalin Aboriginal leader Mick Dodson I feel thinks somewhere in my orbits areas And as for lookin backwards as a footy coach sort of said….better to look forward and remeber th past lessons …and those that permanently keep looking in rear view mirrors crash…
Also, I can’t believe there are crazy people in this country who want to change our flag. The Australian flag will never change because our flag shows our heritage.
There is no need to celebrate Australia Day on January 26. We should take the lead from the monarchists and move it to a more convenient date, such as has been done with the “Queens birthday” holiday which is mostly celebrated on a monday in mid june, well away from the Queens real birthday. I suggest the last Monday in January so that it can fulfill its role as the symbol of the end of the holiday season and the return to a year of serious work.
Mid June long weekend will soon be Republic day.
Bree, so anyone who has different view or opinion from you are either have to leave the country or crazy. You will go well with the religious fundamentalists.
When the time comes that the Australian people voted to be a Republic, you should leave the country.
There will be no republic day, because we will not become a republic.
I’m going to do everything I can to block the republicans.
Any Australian flag alledged to “show our heritage” that has no reference to the Aboriginals and TS islanders, has no trace of green or gold, no trace of our unique flora, etc etc is just cover for mindless conservatism.
I know “mindless conservatism” is an egregious tautology!
I have met plenty of Aborigines that say the Australian should stay the way it is.
CORRECTION:I have met plenty of Aborigines that say the Australian flag should stay the way it is.
Bree, I encourage a broad range of views on this site, but you’re testing the limits with your assertions that the 50 per cent of Australians who support a republic and the 32 per cent who want a new flag are “crazy people” who should “leave the country”.
On the other hand, it seems from the latter link that 77 per cent want one of the worst songs ever written to remain as our national anthem against 6 per cent who would prefer one of the best, so in some ways your views are similar to my own. Mark Steyn gets it.
yes, you just do that. Just lay your body down in front of the history train. Then you dont have to leave the country, it will crush you to death.
William @ 715
That umr research survey doesn’t seem very accurate to me. It looks like the only people surveyed were republicans.
And the only people who voted at the last election were Labor supporters.
And I’ve quoted Colbert before;
“Reality has a well-known liberal bias.”
Newspoll’s surveys this decade have had it between 45 per cent and 52 per cent, while Morgan’s have had it between 45 per cent and 51 per cent. Every poll has had support well ahead of opposition.
You mean 50%, of course.
I’d prefer to hear ‘I Am Australian’ (I think that’s the name?) as the anthem. The one that goes “We are one, but we are many; and from all the lands on earth we come”. It’s better, and doesn’t have the word ‘girt’ in it.
As for that republic, that’s the main reason I hope Turnbull will last longer than I think he will.
If Australia is to become a Republic in the next 5 or so years then I don’t think who the leader of the Liberal Party is will make any difference.
I like that ‘I am Australian’ song too
Thinking about it though, the “We are one, but we are many; and from all the lands on earth we come” has similar sentiments to Advance Aust Fair’s
I’m happy enough with Advance Australia Fair
Its interesting how Conservatives like to think Australia is a “young” country (which it isn’t) and then that we should cling to historic links because history is terribly important (but just ignore history that they don’t like) and that we should never change the flag (which we have changed several times) nor change the national anthem (why not keep God Save the Queen) nor become a really independent Commonwealth of Australia by having our own head of State and on and on. There is nothing wrong with serious debate about national symbols – any group that doesn’t like such debate is just frightened of a serious look at our history and our current society and lacks confidence in the institutions they prefer.
Becoming a republic will not cost us thousands, it will not cost us millions but it will cost us billions, yes BILLIONS of dollars.
It may even run into the zillions.
A republic will definately turn Australia into a Zimbabwe.
WB
anyway good to see that you have all encompassing views (when they suit)
ps If you get a chance go to the KKK site and surprise surprise, you will find an exact copy of the quote I took exception too
It would be the end of civilization as we know it.
GG
#688
Thanks for your race comments GG (and to Vera) , however GG somehow before when posting I incorectly thankd diog instead of correctly you Now I could say we had a barbie and we did , and a mistake was made , me put in charge of meat , then coverts add some wine…. for ‘taste’ but not explain how diog name snuck in there And as for you diog….. a recipient of a completely undeserved thanks , damn well cann’t take it back now , so will treat that as a ‘credit’ I hav…. for a free ‘hit’
the “i am”
song was written by the Seekers, i love it, as for the flag a mixture of the Eureka flag and the indiginous flag would be good, we wont get a new flag or anthem until we’re a republic anyway.
the best songs were written by the seekers and John Farnham, working class man by Jimmy Barnes is a sort of great blue collar anthem, i was friends with Dot, Jim’s mum years ago and i knew Jimmy and his half brother John Swan when they were young and practicing in the garage, nobody could have told then how far they’d go, John was the more laid back one and he was more interesed in fishing than music.
Bree
Posted Monday, January 26, 2009 at 5:30 pm | Permalink
“Becoming a republic will not cost us thousands, it will not cost us millions but it will cost us billions, yes BILLIONS of dollars.”
Its a flick of a pen on a doc , don’t know where you get your pens from but th $2 shop hav them ….for yep $2
I actualy wrote a ditty for th Gough competiton , but poorly educatd peoples obviously couldn’t read my reel lyrics It sort of went along th “I’m am one” theme but diferents …but introduced aboriginols as first as ‘only’ Australians , then whites and Aboriginols as th ‘only’ Australians , then other lands peoples come recognised blah blah , then multicultural , and was not ‘one’ through it but instead started and went all thru as th ‘only Australin’ , so by end we were all th “only” Australian
Ron
Yeah, I wondered what I was being thanked for. FWIW I know better than anyone that your dislike of Obama has nothing to do with race, it’s that disturbing infatuation you have with Bill Clinton’s wife.
Listen to the voice of the young. My son (20s) said that Australia Day should be the day when Australia as a Republic is proclaimed. That’s our Independence Day. hear, hear.
Making Australia a republic will Americanise our country. If you want to live in a republic, bugger off to America.
Didn’t JWH already proclaim Australia the 51st State of the USA ?
I doubt we will become a republic while Her Maj Liz is alive, given her mum’s longevity it could be a while.
All it will take is a Royal Scandal with Charles then its all over for the Monarchists.
Does the flag really matter? It has great importance for some and they wil take offence if it is changed – so why bother?
ruawake, i think our own flag matters, i have the current Australian flag folded in my cupboard, it covered my John’s body when i became a war widow, i will never part with it nor will my children, John was a career soldier and fought under it in all conflicts from Korea to Vietman, but there comes a time when we need to say who we are as a nation, we cant and must never forget our roots, but with migration our roots are so very different now, walk down any street and you’ll see Vietnamese shops, Greek, Italian, Egyptian,Chinese, Indian and so on, what have these Australians got in common with the English flag? i’m Irish heritage third generation Australian, one of my great grandies is half Asian, we no longer owe allegience to mother England, we are adults in our own right, when we become a republic we need our own new flag and anthem to go with it.
Hang on, will Australia become “Americanised” or “turn into a Zimbabwe” if we become a repubilic? How confusing.
We will become a bunch of American Zimbawens and it will cost trillions. Does anyone else feel that someone is having a lend of us?
We dont need to change what already works so well…we already have an Australian as defacto Head of State our GG Bryce and have the added safety of a Monarch who can act to protect Australian interests…
Judith you’ll win more people over to a Republic if you promise never to change the flag…the amount of aussie flags i saw on my way down to the beach and worn by young people was staggering …you’ll never win hearts and minds if you take that away from them.
Gary,
Maybe we should all go to the dreamtime land of “bugger off”.
Glen, they wouldnt have it taken from them just replaced and you dont think they’d be just as proud of a flag with their own heritage on it like the Eureka flag?
jeeeez i thought we oldies were supposed to resist change
I think it would be pretty inconsistent to have a Union Jack on our flag if we were a republic. How many republics have someone else’s flag on their flag? I’m guessing none.
Lots of people are understandably attached to the flag though. We could become a republic, with a view to changing the flag later with a separate referendum, although I gather we probably don’t need one constitutionally or legally.
I always get a bit of a chuckle from those conservatives who lambaste Rudd for “symbolism” (Apology), yet who would be the first to say we must never change the flag because is an important symbol.
I bet if the new flag had Howard’s head in place of the Union Jack the consevatives wouldn’t be able to get rid of the old one quick enough
Steve of the Munch rendition. I just read that the Munch Museum follows up copyright infringements. They seem more concerned about advertisers taking advantage of the work, but I would be remiss if I didn’t share this. The topic needs a separate blog post, almost.
Dio, of course it would have to be done in steps, easy does it, if the public were eased along step by step only the most conservative would dig their heels in, Cuppa, symbols are fine until you outgrow them, i think any flag to mark us as a nation must bring in the indiginous flag, they were the custodians of this land well before we came and took over.
Amigo Vera, on Australia Day, the OZ cricketers are playing oh Collapso kind of cricket. Bring back Damir Dokic anytime.
Judith the Eureka flag represents a bunch of traitors to the crown.
… whose leader went on to become a minister thereof.
Judith, I agree about the need to outgrow symbols which are no longer relevant. The problem with some conservatives is that the idea of growth, progress, whatever, is not to be countenanced under any circumstances. .. It makes me wonder how they can keep a straight face while singing along with (the first verse of) Advance Australia Fair. Advance?? Come off it, they want to stay put, thanks very much.
traitors–patriots, Glen it all depends what side of the fence your on, the facts doesnt show them as traitors, actually the crown betrayed them.
And Cronulla is in the news again – with a repeat performance of their last newsworthy event
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24966331-948,00.html
Finns all they need is 8 wickets for 30 and they are home… done & dusted as Kev would say
Oh Lor!
If you are such a patriot Glen, what are you doing in front of a computer when you should be out on the river foreshore somewhere watching fireworks to the sound of head banging music, stubby in hand, drunk, and expressing your fervour by yelling oggi, oggi, oggi, oi, oi, oi to anyone who cares to listen?
You’re unOrstrayan. Go back to where you come from!
Those bogans give us average Australians a bad name!
Because Fulvio that is not how i celebrate the British colonising Australia…
WB @ 715,
“On the other hand, it seems from the latter link that 77 per cent want one of the worst songs ever written to remain as our national anthem against 6 per cent who would prefer one of the best”.
You da man, William! The tune of Advance Australia Fair is embarrassingly pedestrian – sort of like something from an Eastern European country circa 1960. It’s terrible!
Matilda is great and should of course be our national anthem. Who cares about the eccentrically violent words – that sort of thing doesn’t stop the Marseillaise or the Star Spangled Banner being amongst the world’s most inspiring anthems.
Cuppa, if they had their way we’d still be driving horses and buggies, thered be no modern medicines, we’d still be in slavery to our liege masters and we’d consider living past 40 as being long lived.
Yes, we British do have a lot to celebrate over our colonial rule. Damn those cheeky foreigners and colonials who don’t know their place.
freihans
There are several versions of The Scream. The most famous one is in the National Gallery in Oslo, which was stolen in 1994 (the thieves left a note “Thanks for the poor security”. The Munch Museum also has a version which was stolen a couple of years ago. Both were returned.
Steve’s gravatar is the National Gallery version, not the Munch Museum’s. So the Munch Museum’s copyright has not been infringed.
Glenn, your oh so English Winston Churchill was prepared to let the Japanese have us in world war two and your hero pig iron Bob hid out in England for the duration and was prepared to let him.
Fulvio better the British than the French!
I hate to say this Judith, because I agree with your views about conservatives, but Lincoln was a republican and indiginous Australians gained the right to vote while under a conservative government. Hell, I sound like Glen. Someone take me out and shoot me.
Glen, mate,my ancestors had them both as colonial masters, and you know what, in the end it really didn’t make much difference who was pulling their chains.
Judith it may be a surprise to you but we had units fighting in Europe and the Middle East and Robert Menzies there to oversea their duty and the conduct of the War against Hitler. I suppose you’d not have sent anybody to defeat Hitler judith???
Winston was also the architect of the Gallipoli campaign.
Frank
Just sticking up for the fair citizens of Cronulla, but this latest race riot was in Manly.
The problem wth Gallipoli was that the British should have been prepared to suffer bad losses with their ships trying to force their way through to the Sea of Marmara but they werent so they went with a land invasion.
If they’d sent first rate ships and enough of them and been prepared for 50% losses they’d have gotten through and been able to shell Constantinople…
Whoops my bad I misread the opening paragraph which mentioned the comparison to Cronulla.
But still it does prove my point about the jigoism of the day.
Glen,
If your mama had a moustache………….
Winston was no friend of Australia unless you count the whole Gallipoli experience as ‘character building” and creating the environment for the the US Alliance in World War 2 as “masterstroke bastardry”.
pmsl Gary, cant shoot you we need you here, Glen there was no need for Menzies to be over there, the allies had very capable people to manage the Australian forces, actually there wasnt much Menzies could do.
I suppose you’d not have sent anybody to defeat Hitler judith???— dont load that on me Glenn, i come from a family of soldiers a couple of generations back who fought Hitler and the Japanese, i married a career soldier and i have family serving now, it still doesnt change the fact that Churchill was prepared to hand us over to the Japanese, much as i hate to admit it it was the Americans being forced into the war that helped save us.
GG
At least Churchill was sacked for the Gallipoli disaster. I think the problem was that he ran out of alcohol and was going through delerium tremens when he rushed the Gallipoli plan through the War Cabinet.
Diogs,
20 years on the sideline to comeback and try to f*ck us over again. We should have given the sous his own swimming pool sized vat of scotch. Maybe he would have dived in three times and only come up twice.
Glen, here’s a few home truths about the man you are so proud of.
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve3/1042cult.html
Whoa! Hang on a minute there. I’ve never heard that before. That has to be the single worst thing I’ve heard from an Australian politician.
Is that true???!!!!
Judith Barnes provide me evidence that Churchill ever said he be happy to let Japan take Australia! You cant so stop making such accusations!
Churchill was fighting for his life against the Nazis and so needed every bit of man power in Europe hence the British forces in Asia were not first rate…i hardly think you can criticise him for that!
Judith if Britain had surrendered to the Nazis in 1940 i hardly think Australia would
have done well out of the changed world…Britain won the war for the Allies by not surrendering to Hitler.
Vera your post does not warrent discussion since your source happens to be the Communist Party of Australia i hardly think that article is fair or balanced!
Glen the truth hurts hey? it is just as balanced as your rantings to Judith about her not wanting troops sent to stop Hitler!
Glen
It’s in Wikipedia so it must be true. Oh, Glen, how could you. You’re going to have to change the gravatar or you’ll never live it down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line
Vera, thankyou, my dad and uncles {those who came back} used Menzies’s pic as a bullseye when playing darts, they referred to him as “that traitor” maybe it’s fitting that an amoral person such as Howard idolised him.
Vera the ALP fabricated that story to help them win the 1943 Election. Menzies had nothing to do with such a plan and was exhonerated by the Royal Commission.
If you’ll note that at the time contingency plans were made in the late 1930s we had just 5 divisions and 3 were battle ready so to sacrifice land to be able to defend populations areas would not have been a bad thing. That said there is no evidence that Menzies ever agreed to such a plan or that he made up the plan himself so you are totally wrong and out of order.
Judith criticised Menzies for overseeing our troops fighting Hitler so she was not in favour of them being there…nuff said.
Judith my dad was a Rat of Tobruk and he hated Menzies with a passion
True, and you can’t criticise Curtin for wanting the best forces back here becasue surely he was fighting for his life against the Japanese…
Glen if ALP hadn’t won the 1943 election we would all be speaking Japanese now.
what, you don’t think the yanks would have liberated us??
The bastards! Last time I ever get excited about the Super Bowl.
Well vera not enough of the vets hated Menzies like your Dad because he won the 1949 Election, the 1951 Election, the 1954 Election, the 1955 Election, the 1958 Election, the 1961 Election and the 1963 Election…i guess enough of those who fought in WW2 didnt hate Menzies at all!
Glen,
16.7 million references on google is plenty of evidence. Maybe it was an early version of “We shall decide who comes to this country and how they arrive”.
HAHAHAHAHAH Vera you crack me up!
Im not criticisng Curtin for wanting our Divisions back here we needed them then Grog.
Yes sure Vera if the UAP won the 1943 election we’d have surrendered lol what a joke!
7.30 REPORT TONITE
Interview with Mick Dodson and Ali Moore mostly about this 26th Jan bit
Ali pressed Mick Dodson firmly as to his attitude to th 26th Jan date and that some people wanted it changed Mick Dodson said quote “I hav no problam with th 26th date
When Ali pressed some wanted it changed Mick Dodson said “I hav no problam with th 26th Jan date , I understand some indigenous people and white people do but I do not”
Then Ali pressed what did he mean about having ‘a discussion’ did that mean he favoured a date change Dodson says “ no , it means to have a discussion I don’t hav a problem with 26th Jan date I’m not fussed about th 26th Jan date or any date , but some ar so we need to have a discussion to see if we can accommodate them”
Ali asked what Austalia Day meant to him After mentioning personal reaction on himself , Ali pressed and Mick Dodson indicated it means a celebration of who and what we ar He also said Reconciliation is a generrational thingy , to be passed down for later ons to worlk on re there then situations and thoughts
Then Ali changes subject to Constitutionol preamble bit
At interview end , Mick Dodson says to ali:
“ Happy Australia Day to you ….and to all your viewers”
Pretty black and white to me , and what I’d pre suggested here last nite ie Mick Dodson has no problem with th 26th Jan itself
Furthermores in wishing a ‘happy Australia Day” Mick Dodson is displaying a positive view of th day of what it stands for That’s my opinion as previously said here
and what I thought Mick Dodon thought from quotes and his acceptance of this Award As to accommodating those not happy that Mick Dodson referred to , then as per my earlier post today , perhaps a yearly ceremony on 26th simalar to what Aboriginal elder with leaves etc did ala apology day in Parliament may make more inclusive
And happy Australia Day to you as well Mick Dodson …….Australian of th Year
Now Glen don’t try to rewrite my words I said if the ALP hadn’t won. you naughty boy!
vera,
Menzies denied the existence of the Brisbane Line.
Curtin said he didn’t believe in it.
But still, why would you believe the two of them when Eddie Ward (and the Communist Party) say it’s so!?
no worries Glen.
I have my problems with Chruchill, but when you get down to it, you can’t complain too much about what he did in WWII – we’re a big coutnry, we could stand up for ourselves (and Curtin did). Churchill did what he thought was best for his own country, can’t blame him for that.
Plus I’m reading his “History of the English Speaking Peoples” at the moment, and it’s a damn good read.
Dio,
He should have been shot.
I think Ron is right about what Dodson said. Certainly the comments on 702 this morning were not “let’s change Australia Day”.
All the fuss about Dodson seems to be just the MSM doing what it does best: spreading misinformation in the name of a “good story”.
Vera so was my uncle, he never came back, my dad was fighting the Japanese along with his other brothers, my mums brothers were fighting Hitler and her dad was in france, we lost a few family in those wars, my husbands dad put his age up for the first world war and then he fought in the second world war, John signed up directly from school for Korea and eventually seven of my cousins joined him, we have family serving now, i became a fairly young widow–thank god for legacy they’ve been good to me.
Churchill was wrong about most things in his life.
Still, he was persistently right about one (very important) thing: the Nazis were a menace that needed to be stopped. We tend to be blase about this now but it wasn’t at all obvious to many Westerners till about 1938.
Dyno
I would beleive anyone over Menzies. And I think I’d take Communists over facists as well.
“And I think I’d take Communists over facists as well.”
Ok, but if you believe that stuff about Menzies, you’re also (by implication) saying the Communists are more credible than both Curtin and Menzies.
Why?
dyno I would believe Curtain over Menzies as well.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/04/SMH190401.html
Oh come on, you know very well that if this was the 40’s, PB would be heavily leaning towards the Communists.
We’d all have our little red book
S.O.P. really.
798, Dyno, I agree with you completely.
Geez, how bad are the Aussie’s getting beat in the cricket?
blog by telegraph??
vera,
I was possibly unclear, but what I was saying is that Curtin’s views (broadly) accorded with Menzies’ account, in relation to whether the Brisbane Line was real (they both said it wasn’t).
Hmmm,
Would the 1940s retro PB be pro-Communist? I’d like to think not…
Grog my opinion of journos is well known here, the motto of most is to never spoil a good story with the truth, believe me most live by it.
Churchill nearly was shot – after he resigned from the house of commons he went into the trenches to do penance, and on 1 Jan 1916 was given command of a batallion – the 6th Royal Scots Fusileers, until May, when he returned to England & politics.
Churchill bears a lot of responsibility for Gallipoli, but it was Haig who refused to give him enough soldiers (Churchill had effectively called him a murderer earlier in the war, so its unsurprising that Haig was willing to sabotage Churchills plans), and the Navy who refused to put the fleet in (possible) danger by sailing away from safety in England. Churchill at least deserves praise for having the guts to try something to break the deadlock in France.
The Gallipoli campaign was a convincing failure, but it was far from the worst campaign of the war, and the relatively light fighting (compared to France that is) allowed the AIF to gain a lot of valuable experience, without being annihilated in the process. General Monash – perhaps the finest allied General of the war, earned his stripes there.
In fact, by the kind of perverse logic that only operates in wartime, one could argue that it *saved* Australian & NZ’der lives, because those young men were undoubtedly bound for France, where casualty rates were much much higher.
Furthermore, we wouldn’t have any of the ‘forging of a nation’ type narrative floating about today – which would deny politicians a whole lot of press & photo opportunities every April
the problem is, the motto never ceases to serve them well. In fact, it’ll generally lead to better pay. (and a gig on TV)
made for a great film as well.
I heartily recommend Les Carylon’s two books – Gallipoli and The Great War (even if the latter is full of references to the father and grandad of a certain former Liberal PM… gee how DID it win the PM History Prixe???)
Grog when you’ve a few spare days maybe i’ll tell you some of what i know about journos, saying that two beloved men in my life were/are top journos, dear old uncle Bob Whitington who protected me as much as he could and became a second dad to me till he died and Nigel, one i’d trust with my life.
would be great Judith.
But for now I’m off to bedfordshire. For once the tennis is finished before midnight.
Dyno
thanks for your coments in my #791 and of Mick Dodsons 7.30 Report interview whwere his views and mine ar in same ball bark about th 26th Jan date , which i sugested last nite
Those that ar strong anti th 26th Jan date now find critisisng me means criticising Mick Dodson
you wouldnt believe me anyway Grog lol.
Ron when we become a republic then perhaps that day should be celebrated as Australia day.
Absolutely , i’d like that
Not only did Churchill do “trench time” he also had been nearly killed two or three times in his youth, stuffing around in various British colonial adventures.
Had there been no Churchill, WW2 may well have turned out quite differently. Halifax would almost certainly have become PM (Chamberlain was dying anyway, though this wasn’t realised at the time he resigned) and Halifax may well have negotiated peace with Germany after France surrendered, presumably on pretty crappy terms which would have left Hitler completely in charge on the Continent.
So the youthful Churchill’s inability to get himself shot (seems to have) had major historical ramifications for the world.
Funny how history works out sometimes …
It is difficult to think of anything good to say about Churchill in a very long life in the public eye. However we should remember the one thing he did get right, and that was his aversion to Nazism. This was not a popular stance to take in the upper echelons of British society in the 30’s, especially before the abdication of King Edward, by all reports a keen supporter of Nazism. Much of what later became dressed up as anti nazism was only zenophobic anti German sentiment, definately not anti nazism. Most countries in Europe (and Australia) had very influential fascist parties and organisations throughout the 30’s. Popular support for those organisations only fell away as war became inevitable. My father among others spent the early part of his war service patrolling the south coast escarpment of NSW looking for and occasionally finding fascist sympathisers signalling to ships at sea, especially ships flying the flag of fascist states such as Spain and some South American countries.
Michael,
Yes it’s hard to know what to make of someone who got most stuff wrong but got the most important thing right, and had sufficient courage to stick it out through the “Wilderness Years”.
Dyno
i hav n o problam with churchill rightful place in helping to defeet Hitler burt as an australian I just cann’t forgive him for Gallopilli and then refusing & procrastinating , and diverting re John Curtins demands to hav our oz troops back here in oz to defend oz
This is also my citisism of menzies in period Menzies wanted oz troops in england to sav Empire , Curtin wantd them back here fromm/e to sav oz and of empire got st.ffed then so be it So two diff approachs , for me curtin was right …this is Aug 1941 only months from Nov 41 Pearl Harbours I actualy think curtin our greatest PM on achievment and changin oz also
Dyno seeing this aussie Day , like to test this theeory about Republic oposition as its many , how to elect like by peoples or by joint 75% parliament , our Queen , th flag , monarchists blah blah
If a referendum was put that i tink should be tht asked one queston Do you suport an Australian Republic by…? (with note saying that NO Republic will occur unless a 2nd vote is made to oz people to decide how a President is electd)
this ways , all Republicons ar united in same boat shed , now what % of libs do you reckon wuld supoort such 1 queston referendum , cause past poll questons may be influenced by confusions/doubts over method of Pres electon
Ron,
I reckon about half of Liberal voters would support the question as phrased by you. You might get that proportion up a bit more if there was a provision saying nothing would change till QE2 was no longer on the throne – more or less the Bob Hawke formulation, I think.
But that’s just “what I reckon” – William, Possum, others – is there any polling on this?
Dyno , i sent this to last Republicon talk feast in about 1999 , seeing they did not invite me Trouble was even beforehands I could see all th different pro Republicon factions like Phil cleary clan were just going to end up divided , and cann’t get Referendums thru unless there is general 2 party suport
probalm with polling is i think it UNDERrstates Republicon suport BECAUSE of public prevously seeing confusing 2 Pres electon methods and obvously given a choise they’ll go for electing direct , rather than via pollies
So thats why I reckon get th yes vote first , then all monarchists ar out of th ring confusing th issue , and after yes for Republic vote perhaps some more education of public on adds and minius’s of both electon options
Yeah, will get round to reading them one day – although I think I’d like to go right to the source first – Charles Bean.
When Chamberlain resigned Halifax was actually first in line – he was favourite amongst the conservative party, and also with the King (supposedly). He was too Machiavellian for his own good though – he thought that whoever succeeded Chamberlain was bound to fail, and thus he would be there to pick up the pieces in the aftermath.
Churchill
oops … was going to add something there but forgot what it was …
I think you mean Kitchener, the Secretary of State for War, not Haig. Otherwise, you’re correct. Kitchener failed to supply the Dardanelles campaign with the necessary amount of troops. Prime Minister Asquith knew this but pathetically wouldn’t overrule his famed war minister. But Kitchener escaped blame because of his status as a war hero and his untimely death.
I think you might be referring to Hamilton’s effort in the Dardanelles? He refused to sail on to a lightly fortified Constantinople, despite the relative impotence of the enemy. The only vessels that were lost had gone that way because they sailed too close to the shore. Alas, this timidity and procrastination proved counter-productive: by the time the British led forces were ready to fight, the Turks were ready for them.
I think this says too little. Opening up the southern front could have been a masterstroke. But for its woeful execution.
It is also a fact that two (or was it three?) commanders of the royal navy were tried and found guilty of cowardice and relieved of command for the constantinople. As alraedy said, if it had been properly supported, it would have shortened the war and possibly saved millions of lives.
Janet A is so boring and predictable. We saw this coming two days ago.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/dodson_proves_an_ungracious_winner/
Gawd Dio why read her scribblings, i’ve got more respect for my blood pressure than to inflict her or Akerman on it, you know the crap you’ll get from both of them and it aint pretty, while the Newsltd stable has some fairly rabid scribes those two take the cake for poisonous spiteful garbage, i guess she keeps her job because of her following of blue rinse set conservative happy clappers, dunno who else would bother, they can congregate together and lay the claws into whoever is Janet’s prey of the day and extol “that nice mister Howard”, i only bothered to read her wafflings once and that was enough, at the time she was extolling Turnbull becoming the lib leader, if i remember rightly it was sinking the boots thoroughly into Rudd and finishing with the term “ladies and gentlemen now it’s game on” — yeah right!
Judith I keep my eyes well protected from those lot who still haven’t got over their mate Howard being givin the big A. I’ll stick to the SMH.
Iceland’s govt coalition partner is threatening to withdraw support unless they sack the central bank governor, who is an ex prime minister.
Imagine if we did that sort of thing here, Howard could have Glen Stevens job now and then we’d really be stuffed.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/icelands-economic-crisis-threatens-govt-20090126-7q2n.html
Vera, thats the stuff nightmares are made of, Howard who thought the public purse was his own unlimited money stream and kept his nose very firmly in the trough, it doesnt bear thinking of.
It’d be OK of course if Paul keating had got the job
Yes vera let’s leave the RBA in the hands of a man who brought about a recession, 13% unemployment and 96billion dollars of net Commonwealth debt not to mention a 10b dollar budget deficit…yeah that sounds like an excellent plan!
A very good article by Krugman here shooting down all the arguments against economic stimulus packages. Its practically a “how to” guide to shooting down everything Turbnbull is likely to say in the budget session. This assumes the Libs will mindlessly follow the rhetoric of US republicans on how to deal with the GFC, just as they have done with everything else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/opinion/26krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
834 – So Glen, you’d be happy to have the RBA run by Howard? Now, let’s see, what was his record as treasurer in the Fraser government again?
Glen
Harper faces the budget vote on the 28th. He seems to think he’s going to win it. The NDP and Bloc are voting against it so it’s all up to the Liberals.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2640699820090126
And in more great news for the world, Netanyahu looks like winning the Israeli election in two weeks.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE50P2H820090126
No i dont think Howard should run it either. I’m sure we can find enough competent people in the private sector to run the RBA.
Dio the Liberals are cowards they wont bring Harper down because they know they’d not look good to the rest of the public which want Harper to continue in Government.
Second the NDP are a bunch of radicals it would be like Rudd forming a minority government in the House of Reps with the Greens that would not help the ALP and would help the Opposition. Iggy isnt going to want to be PM if it means having to appease the NDP or the Bloc.
Hurray for Bibi maybe they’ll eliminate Hamas for good and install Fatah in Gaza (which should have been done ages ago)…
838 – Fair enough Glen. I tend to agree with you actually. I don’t want any politician in charge of the RBA.
Glen 838
That is an interesting view. Too bad we don’t sem to be able to find enough competent financial manages in the private sector to run the private sector lately
Glen my comment about PK was tongue in cheek (thus the smiley) I agree with you and Gary the RBA should be independent of the govt whether Labor or Lib are in power.
Glen
I do agree with you that we shouldn’t have a politician running the RBA. However, I think the GFC has exposed that the “best financial minds” AREN’T in the private sector. They (private sector financiers) are usually the best salesmen, not the best financial experts.
the private sector couldnt even find a job for that wonderful economist Costello, but then it’s over run with Turnbulls mates and ex compatriots the merchant bankers, WHOOPS! isnt that the mob that helped bring about this global economical meltdown.
The Age seems to have developed a philosophy of presenting the doom and gloom of the GFC in neon lights and whatever is positive couching it in negative terms so that we don’t get too confident. Hell, we mustn’t try and stop fear setting in must we?
Kerr trying to make a story out of bugger all.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24969405-601,00.html
Gary let’s see the bad spin they put on this. Julia announcing and extra $719mil for NSW schools.
I can hear it now, Libs will be up in arms saying Rudd is bailing out the NSW Govt. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/gillard-unveils-school-funding-boost-20090127-7qis.html
Julia has been busy today, she also is meeting with welfare loby to discuss ways to help those who are least well off.
Finns you’d like Lindsay Tanner’s take on the effects of financial crisis
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/banks-on-notice-as-tide-of-jobless-rises/2009/01/26/1232818339488.html
cant you just hear it now, the libs screaming about the schools boost, even if it was another state other than NSW they’d find something to whinge about.
i think maybe Turnbull’s lost his leak in the treasury because his demands dont seem to be spot on with moves the government ’s making now, before now he seemed to have the info on what the government was planning next so he could trumpet it off as a demand they do that and then look as if he’s trumpted them and they’re following his advice, maybe the mole has been tracked down.
Gary, Kerr is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, how does he know theres been no contact? maybe the PM’s office is antsy in letting out info about phone calls after the other fuss.
New thread.