The latest weekly Essential Research survey has Labor’s two-party lead steady on 61-39. As promised, there is also voluminous material on attitudes to the economy and stimulus package:
• 62 per cent are “concerned” about job security over the coming year, although 60 per cent are “confident” Australia can withstand the crisis.
• The opposition’s approve-disapprove split on handling of the crisis has widened from 31-35 to 35-44, while the government’s is little changed.
• Labor is more trusted to handle the crisis than the Coalition by 55-25.
• A somewhat unwieldy question about which leader’s approach to stimulus is preferable has Rudd leading Turnbull 51-33.
• Opinion is also gauged on five individual aspects of the package, with free ceiling insulation rated significantly lower than the rest.
• Perhaps most importantly, Peter Costello outscores Malcolm Turnbull in a head-to-head preferred Liberal leader contest 37-26.
What’s more:
• Last weekend’s Sunday Telegraph reported that Malcolm Turnbull is supporting preselection moves against former NSW Opposition Leader Peter Debnam in the blue-ribbon Vaucluse, which is wholly contained within Turnbull’s federal seat of Wentworth. Those named as possible successors are “restaurateur Peter Doyle, barrister Mark Speakman, UNSW Deputy Chancellor Gabrielle Upton, barrister Arthur Moses and former Optus spokesman Paul Fletcher”. Debnam quit shadow cabinet last May in protest against his party’s support for the government’s attempt at electricity privatisation, and was left out in December’s reshuffle despite reportedly angling for the Shadow Treasurer position. Also rated as a possible starter is Joe Hockey, who might have other ideas now he’s Shadow Treasurer. Alex Mitchell writes in Crikey that Hockey might also be keeping an eye on Jillian Skinner’s seat of North Shore, and muses that Tony Abbott might also consider the state premiership a more achievable objective than a return to government federally.
• Former Howard government minister Richard Alston has nominated for a Liberal federal electoral conference position, which is reportedly a gambit in the keenly fought contest to replace retiring Petro Georgiou in the blue-ribbon Melbourne seat of Kooyong. Described by The Age as a “patron” of long-standing hopeful Josh Frydenberg, Alston will attempt to gain the position at the expense of incumbent Paula Davey, who is associated with faction of Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu – which would prefer that the seat go to Institute of Public Affairs director John Roskam.
• Yesterday’s Sunday Times reported that long-serving Fremantle mayor Peter Tagliaferri has been sounded out by Labor as a possible successor to Jim McGinty as state member for Fremantle. The report raised the prospect of McGinty going sooner rather than later, thereby initiating what could prove a very interesting by-election in the Poll Bludger’s home electorate. While Fremantle has been in Labor hands since 1924, McGinty received an early shock on election night when it appeared Greens candidate Adele Carles might overtake the Liberals and possibly win the seat on their preferences. Carles was ultimately excluded at the second last count with 28.6 per cent of the vote to the Liberal candidate’s 32.1 per cent.
• Tasmanian Premier David Bartlett rates himself “extremely pleased” that Winnaleah-based school principal Brian Wightman will seek Labor preselection for Bass at the March 2010 state election. Labor narrowly failed to win a third seat in Bass at the 2006 election, being pipped at the post by the Greens for a result of two Labor, two Liberal and one Greens. The likelihood of a swing against Labor next time means Labor is all but certain to again win two seats: one seems certain to stay with former federal MP Michelle O’Byrne, while the other is being vacated by retiring member Jim Cox. Also in the field will be CFMEU forests division secretary Scott McLean, reckoned by The Mercury to be a “star candidate” despite having been “condemned by many diehard members of the Labor Party in 2004 when he backed Liberal Prime Minister John Howard over Labor’s then-federal opposition leader Mark Latham”.
• The Hobart Mercury talks of upper house disquiet over Tasmanian government legislation for fixed terms, a draft of which is “currently out for consultation”. The government wants early elections for the House of Assembly to be allowed if the Legislative Council does so much as block a bill the Assembly has deemed to be “significant”. This sounds very much like South Australia’s “bill of special importance” exception, which I gather has never been invoked since it was introduced in 1985. Independent Council President Sue Smith says there is concern that “the provision could be used as a threat to pass controversial legislation or as an excuse to go to an early election”. Another exception, according to The Mercury, is that “the Lower House would also go to an election if the Upper House blocks supply of funds for a budget”. This seems to suggest that 1975-style supply obstruction would produce an instant election, though I suspect it’s not quite as simple as that. Nonetheless, Greens leader Nick McKim has “foreshadowed an amendment by which the Upper House would also have to go to the polls if it blocked budget supply”. This would be a significant development for a chamber that currently never dissolves, as its members rotate annually through a six-year cycle. Less contentiously, the legislation also allows for an early election if the lower house passes a no confidence motion.
1,646 Comments
Is this the narrowing?
Apology if I misunderstand but are these figures the wrong way around?
“The opposition’s approve-disapprove split on handling of the crisis has widened from 31-55 to 35-44, while the government’s is little changed.”
To me a shift from from 31-55 to 35-44 is a narrowing, not a widening.
Corrected, Socrates.
THE NARROWING!!!
lulz.
That joke never gets unfunny IMO
You could have a lot of fun in Shanahans office sending him figures the wrong way around, making him think there was a narrowing. Then, just as he is halfway through gleefully typing his column, say sorry and give him the figures the right way around.
ShowsOn, Rudd Labor has held their unprecedented Newspoll popularity since late 2006. It’s now early 2009.
The delusional rants of the right, especially Bree, continue to be an hilarious source of entertainment.
Looks like the undecided folk are abandoning Mr Turnbull.
Interesting that the most popular stimulus measures were schoools funding (84% support) and public housing (&3%). Only 3 % opposed the schools funding.
Also loved the last leadership question – 24% prefer Turnbull, 37% prefer Costello and 37% are undecided! Remember that Liberal Party support is only 32%. So Turnbull has at best 75% support from amoung Liberal Party rusted ons.
Steve K
Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 5:05 pm | Permalink
‘His 8000 word essay was not intellectually disciplined…’
“Gosh GP, I’ve seen FIVE word sentences from you at Pollbludgers that aren’t intellectually disciplined.”
and you ar qualified to make that assesment , hardly
.
Actualy Generic Person is one of our cleverest PB’s….and just at th moment trying to get him to buy my CBA bank & having all key public services Govt ownd & debate will on
84% approve of the school building construction and maintenance programme, yet last week a heap of Liberals (senators in particular) were standing up in parliament attacking it.
I guess they must be part of the 3% who oppose it.
it just gets better and better.
Ron, talking about intelectual discipline. What a hoot!
After extraordinary event,..no real change. 60’s seem to be the upper limit. I’m perfectly happy with that but
So Julie Bishop thinks politics is tough in Australia. She aint see nothing yet:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/SE%2BAsia/Story/STIStory_339086.html
Yes, the prim and proper, sedate Malaysian politics.
No, no relation to Ms. Penny Wong.
Yes that 40% is obviously the 32% who are congenital Liberal voters and another 8% of Nationals, Family First etc for whom the Liberals aren’t far enough to the right!
Finns @ 15
things here in Oz could almost outdo your Malaysian Story
thank god for that, otherwise the OO would of had Rudd in the slammer awaiting sentencing!
This is interesting – the third attempt of a Chinese firm to buy a major stake in an Aussie miner in the past few weeks.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/16/2492862.htm?section=justin
In this time Baosteel has bought a stake in Centrex, Chinalco has bidded for 185 of Rio Tinot, and now Minmetals is seeking to buy Oz Minerals. The good news is it looks like Chinese banks are starting to supply credit again and this will help us too. But there is an underlying significance: after the GFC the US is an indebted wreck, and China still has cash. Now they are starting to flex that muscle. Hope our relationships with Beijing are in good shape Kevin.
This seems to be the government’s M.O. in Malaysia, accuse any and all opponents of sexual impropriety.
link
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/pms-property-searched-for-sex-attacker-20090216-88kb.html
Those numbers about economic management must really hurt Lib supporters. It’s the one metric that the Libs have dominated since 1990. If that has gone south there is little wonder that Bishop was shot.
One way for the Libs to regain credibility is for the economy to tank and the Government to be seen as the cause. A strategy built about being vultures picking over the bones of economic victims is pretty low politics.
The other is for a new leader with economic credentials. Have the Libs got anyone hanging around looking for the gig?
Bob @13. Your barb might have had more punch if you’d spelt “intellectual” correctly!
Er nope.
GG 21
I haven’t seen any impress me on that score so far. Too many attack dogs, too few brains. We’ll call them the zombies.
Obviously too cryptic. The name starts with Peter Costello.
GG
Costello has no economic credentials.
12 years as Treasurer. Paid off Labor’s debt. Won the Great Asian Financial crisis. Left $20billion surplus.
Exactly the credentials for a backbencher!
What exaclty is he waiting for? Is he trying to “do a Howard”, you know, hang around for 8 years before becoming opposition leader again.
At least Howard had to guts to stay on the front bench.
BTW, wasn’t Hockey a Costello numbers man?
GG I think the operative clause in your post (@21) is “and the Government to be seen as the cause”. Even if the economy tanks, everyone knows that we’re in the midst of a global financial crisis. Sure there will be a backlash against Labor, but I doubt there’d be enough people who believe it’s the government’s fault to actually win the Libs an election.
I thought that was Pyne.
No wonder he never got close.
By selling $90 billion in assets.
By handing down a deficit budget and stimulating the economy with tax cuts – thus making it harder to pay off labor debt. (
).
Left a $10 billion surplus but claimed the other 10.
Tim,
Agree. That’s why scenario 2 is more likely. Changing the players changes the dynamics. Labor surged once Rudd was elected Leader and have been consolidating ever since. The Libs will gamble that Cossie can do the same.
ru,
Perception is reality. You might be right but the punters think something else. Check out those Costello numbers.
Shows On,
Hockey was in the boat. Perhaps that’s why it got swamped.
GG
Costello equal with don’t know – hardly convincing.
The “Don’t knows” were probably the Liberal backbench.
Ruawake @ 8,
They are getting with the programs
Vera, what i want to know is what was Sen. Fieldings doing wandering the streets of Canberra late in the night. i just dont trust those bible bashing type.
Costello could have been opposition leader at any time of his chosing since the last election. Now I doubt it.
He has done none of the “heavy lifting” for the past year – has only appeared in the media to sell his book or to defend his legacy.
He is just staying on because he hates the NSW division of the Liberal Party.
If I was a Liberal supporter, the current team of Turnbull-Hockey would have been my preferred option after the 2007 election in terms of being competitive with Labor, once Cossie made it clear he wasn’t going to lift a finger. Unless Costello pulls his finger out, this is as good as it gets for the LNP.
And I just can’t agree with Adam on this;
WTF? How do all the dimwits employed as bureaucrats in the public service get competed out? They’ve got jobs for life. You just can’t buy incompetence like you get in State departments. It’s ingrained.
Ah, now the game begins again for Costello. He hears again the siren song of the “prefered opposition leader” polls. These polls are a snare and a delusion, as he probably knows, since they always show the incumbent opposition leader trailing whoever is being put up as the alternative de jour. But will ambition and vanity lead him into one last gamble anyway? I kinda like to think so
I’m not interested in ignorant populist tabloid-press-level public-service-bashing, thanks.
RUAwake at number 40:
Ah, but that’s when he did the heavy lifting. Climbing out of a hammock is quite a feat when one’s body is conformed to the hammock shape!
Adam
You should be. It’s a huge weakness of the public service.
And it’s not ignorant. I work with these people every day and they are absolutely hopeless (at least in SA Health). They rise to the level of their incompetence and cannot be moved out. The system festers around them and any of their colleagues with any idea leaves and goes to the private sector.
I should add that I’m referring to the top-level executives, not the middle-level ones.
Costello has made it blatantly obvious that he is not interested in helping to make the L-NP competitive.
If by some miracle they do become competitive – who in there right mind would dump the leader in favour of a hammock dweller?
Ahh, Costello. Give him a once in a generation trade boom and rusted Libs think he’s top shit. So amusing.
In a short statement, Mr Hockey said he welcomed the challenges posed by his new job.
“It is the responsibility of the Opposition at this time to put forward responsible and progressive policies that will help steer Australia through these difficult times,” the Member for North Sydney said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25062618-601,00.html
Bwahahahaha. Doesn’t he realise that there’s nothing progressive about the Liberal Party of Australia since the dries began to dominate the wets? What a deluded fat fool.
Ron @ 10
Get over it.
No 49
Bob, your personal attacks on Hockey are banal and infantile. I would have thought the standard of debate around here could rise above that which is typical of kindergarten students.
http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2009/02/16/Stop_sticking_up_for_Julie_Bishop
Bloggers and armchair experts across the nation have fallen over each other today to say what a brave person Shadow Treasurer Julie Bishop was by falling on her sword.
——-
lol
GP, he is fat isn’t he? It’s not an attack, just a statement of fat. Er, fact. Just like the taunts Beazley got.
Oh yes, your time has come.
No 10
Ron, thanks for your kind comments, but I will never subscribe to government ownership of banks and other businesses. Government involvement is a recipe for inefficiency, incompetence and waste.
bob1234, what on earth does someone’s body shape have to do with anything?
No 53
I don’t believe I’ve criticised Beazley for being overweight. It’s totally unnecessary and, as I said, infantile.
ltep, if the weight is due to their lifestyle choices, it shows that they are unable to manage themselves correctly, let alone the finances of the nation.
Of course, it could all be glandular.
“When our leader Malcolm Turnbull was elected last year, I chose the treasury portfolio because it had been something of a tradition in the Liberal Party for the deputy leader to hold that portfolio and because I believed that with Malcolm and others this would give the opposition a strong and effective team in the area of economic management,” Ms Bishop said.
But er oops Ms Bishop when you were elected Deputy Leader originally you chose to take on Ms Gillard – she nuked you.
Then when Dr Nelson fell out of favour you decided you would take on Mr Swan – he nuked you.
Now you have set your sights a little lower – but Mr Smith will do the same.
I can’t say I’m much impressed by “deluded fat fool” either.
Oh come on. You can do better than that.
It’s the kebabs.
Hockey lacks ticker. All fat politicians lack ticker.
GP
Why does the right always say that? What are the advantages the private system has over public that lead it to being more efficient, competent and less wasteful?
(Let’s just ignore my comment earlier that the Peter Principle mainly applies to public systems because it’s a lot easier to shaft someone in a private business).
No 57
Oh for goodness sake, grow up! A politician’s weight, sex, colour, sexual preference etc have nothing to do with their mental capacity for the job.
No 61
Ugh. Here we go again. Poor form guys.
I take it you mean by the phrase, not the person so described.
For once I agree with GP, it does not matter if Joe is 80kg or 200kg it is the quality of his argument that is the only thing of interest.
William, i’ve called politicians deluded fools several times if not many times. Does adding a factual word, fat, change the acceptability? Or are you not banning the use of such a phrase, just expressing your dislike for it?
I notice it’s really annoying to GP…
http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2009/02/16/Stop_sticking_up_for_Julie_Bishop
Ross Lightfoot and Julie Bishop used to date each other?!
Just saw ABC TV news. It’s reported that Costello was offered the job as Swan’s shadow but he again wimped it. What a wonderful servant of the party he’s turned out to be. The soon he has his preselection removed the sooner the Libs can start to rebuild. Of course I hope that doesn’t happen soon as the longer the stink of the Howard years hangs over the Libs the longer Labor will rule the roost.
GP
“I will never subscribe to government ownership of banks and other businesses. Government involvement is a recipe for inefficiency, incompetence and waste.”
I also find this a statement of ideology rather than fact. It is always stated as a fact but no evidence is offered to prove it. In reality this is simplistic rubbish. I have spent my career in both government and private consulting firms and I find there is no correlation – there is good and bad in both. I have worked for one very efficient government department, one average and one very poor. Similarly the consulting firm I work for now is verry well managed, but one I worked for previously was not. In my experience the size of the organisation, quality of management and degree of compeitition have far more to do with whether it is competent, not whether it is public or private.
In an era when business executives are installing marbled personal bathrooms in their offices at shareholder expense, only a fool would believe that private is always more efficient than public.
Hockey as treasurer will be interesting and more of a challenge for the govt than the previous two were.
Also some very interesting times ahead for Joe, he could well take the leadership from Turnbull down the track and, lets face it, at the bottom of it is the money.
Leader of the opposition pays way, way more than shadow treasurer, and Joe took a huge salary cut in dropping for Work Choices Minister to opposition spokesperson. Remember all the talk from Abbott, Downer and co crying poor. Didn’t affect Turnbull so much though.
Also with Joe, the federal election is before the NSW election, if libs get a caning at federal level this could prompt Joe to move on O’Farrell. A close result could see Joe as fed leader with the extra cash it brings.
ruawake, don’t you mean “weight of the argument”?
When Beazeley was in opposition going into the election, I was chatting to a head of a prominent think tank in UK, who said Beaza would never make PM on acount of his weight.
And everyone was eyeing Al Gore’s weight to see if he was going to run
In peoples mind fat=weak, Hockey won’t go very far
Obviously you’ve never had to deal with Robert Ray, the most lethal political operator of his generation, and a very formidable Cabinet minister too.
Brissendon just suggested Turnbull offered the treasury rolle to Costello.
I heard that too Grog.
It shows the man is gutless. He’s happy to carp on about his brilliance in the press but when he’s offered the opportunity to develop policy and attack the government in parliament he runs away.
GP,
The Banks in the US have done such a fine job that they are going to have to be nationalised to survive.
I’m fascinated that the trillion dollar bailout by the US Government has been treated with a yawn by “The Markets”. It’s like they all want window seats on the rescue craft.
Finns the good senator walks the streets at night because he has trouble sleeping I believe, well thats his story anyway so help him God
Obviously Uncle Joe’s weight has nothing to do with how we should perceive him as a competent politician but I really think it makes a difference to whether he succeeds. There have been very few successful overweight politicians in recent history.
The same is true of height in America. If McCain had’ve won, he would have been the shortest POTUS in 120 years.
Mr Gladstone walked the streets at night too, though not through insomnia.
I don’t think anyone accused Amanda Vanstone of lacking ticker. Judgement yes, ticker no.
vera,
Such a segue cannot be ignored.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFOhQoGJPY8
Julie to Malcolm.
Its not working out, I think I will move to Foreign Affairs.
Malcolm to Julie.
No worries.
Malcolm to Helen
Sorry but Julie’s Dept Leader – your gig is cactus.
Helen to Malcolm
What do I do now?
Malcolm to Helen
Wait a bit – I am waiting for Peter.
Peter to Malcolm
Sod off.
Malcolm to Helen
You’ve got Joe’s gig.
Joe to Malcolm
You want me to do what !!!!!!!
Generic Person 63:
But it was OK for the Liberal scumbag to call Julia Gillard “deliberately barren”? And, for that matter, the Liberal Party to smear Rudd because he visited a strip club?
Who leaked that Costello was offered the job though?
Gives the ALP a perfect attack to any Hockey question in QT – “the member for North Sydney, who’s leader didn’t even want him to be the shadow Treasury spokesperson”.
Good point Grog.
Maybe Costello told Brissenden over another boozy meal.
No 70
Socrates, the fundamental difference is that inefficient businesses pay the price for their incompetence through decreased market share and/or bankruptcy. The public sector has no such worry.
I think weight, height (for males) and appearance generally have gotten more important for politicians as TV coverage has become more crucial. Didn’t Howard get his teeth capped? Its a pitty in many ways – style over substance. I wonder if a Churchill would even get elected now? He was also fat but not weak.
Vanstone was never in such a high position as Hockey/Beazley within their own party.
Turnbull wanders up to the hammock and after shaking it vigorously, Costello slowly opens one eye. “Wadda yu want Allbull?”
“Arrr Worlds Greatest Treasurer, there’s a job going down on the front bench. We need a new Shadow Treasurer.”
“Arrr. p off Allbull, a man of my ability doesn’t need all that cr*p going on down there. It disturbs my sleep and after 11 and a half years of propping up that dreadful Howard character, I need to catch up on some beauty sleep. My smirk is starting to slip because of all the demands placed on it over the years.”
Go and try Hockey. He’ll have a go at anything. Won’t be much good at it, going on past performance, but he has a good appetite for a challenge. Big Macs for one.”
No 84
Mr Heffernan’s remarks were inappropriate. Simple as that.
bob1234, you’re arguing Beazley would not be a suitable Prime Minster because he is fat? Seriously?
GP if the business is a monopoly or too large to be left to fail that simply isn’t true. If it is a major bank its collapse definitely won’t be permitted. Westpac here was insolvent in the early 90s, but helped out of its mess. Likewise GM and Chrysler in the US, on top of their banks and insurance companies. Companies in profitable businesses can underperform for years and get away with it.
He should’ve been expelled by the Liberal party after his baseless attack on Michael Kirby.
ShowsOn
you are forgetting that the Liberals were IN POWER then. The time to talk about standards of behaviour is when you are in opposition. Surely Howard taught you that?
The chair-sniffer should have been expelled by the Liberal Party for sexual harassment.
The stalking of Turnbull begins. The headline puts Turnbull’s leadership in play.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25062618-601,00.html
No 93
I made an exception with the case of banks earlier – it would be inappropriate to let the entire banking system collapse. However, it is important to examine the reasons why banks collapse – regulation that forced banks to sell loans to people with no ability to repay as well as a lack of appropriate prudential regulation, as examples.
As for GM and Chrysler, bailing them out is an obscene waste of taxpayer’s resources. Whilst banks form an essential part of every economy, the success or otherwise of an inefficient, wasteful auto maker does not. Foreign car makers have been profitably producing vehicles in the US for years and none of them have received the generous taxpayer bailouts that the big three have.
I’ve added more stuff to my post, if anyone’s interested.
Heffernan was probably the nastiest of John Howard’s attack dogs. But Howard always had a few.
NOTHING that happened in the L-NP after 2002 was done without the express permission of JWH.
No 94
Mark Latham should have been expelled from the Labor party for his outrageous attack on Janet Albrechtsen in the parliament.
Tell me GP, what about farmers? If farms are not viable, do you think they shoudl be propped up? The former government seemd to think so, with tax rebates, diesel subsidies, drought relief, flood relief, zone rebates, subsidised freight etc. I presume you were opposed to the Howard governmetns efforts to keep them afloat?
Oh you have to be kidding. This would be a blessing for NSW Labor… an opportunity to win.
Dont you think it was just another nail in Costello’s coffin by offering it to him when he’d refuse, this way Turnbull scores and Costello looks on the out (good for Turnbull)…Hockey will do a better job because he knows his stuff, he’s jolly (personable) and he’s got ticker (ie doesnt take crap)…
See i told you guys on the weekend Julie would take Foreign Affairs!
Score one for me, i mean she’s going to need a senior job that isnt in the forefront all the time so the portfolio is perfect for her anyway Coonan wasnt doing anything with it.
Look at it this way the Liberal Party is living up to its name…
Leader
Treasury
Finance
Education
All held by moderates…all the conservatives have is family affairs, health and foreign affairs…
GP,
JA invites invective and dines out on it I’m sure.
And yes… a Fremantle by-election would be very interesting indeed!
GP
Don’t forget Latham’s attack on Pies Ackermann.
Don’t forget Akerman’s attacks on everything Labor.
Don’t you mean Curtin – Fremantle is held by the ALP’s Melissa Parks
I’m referring to Williams comments up-top about the possibility of an early retirement from Jim McGinty.
Was he really an attack dog? Or just plain nuts?
No 111
Can’t possibly be as nuts as Latham who assaulted a photographer.
What? Albrechttsen was and is a hack journalist. Not a jurist in the highest court in the land.
It is explicitly against the standing orders for a federal M.P. to make derogatory comments in the chamber about a member of the Federal judiciary. But that didn’t seem to concern Senator Hefferlump.
Pity they have to defend such inane policies, such as supporting higher unemployment.
The latter.
ltep, fremantle in state, not fed politics.
I’m much bemused by speculation about Fed. pollies moving from the Fed. level to the State. Has this happened? What were the circumstances?
Yep. That’s what I was referring to.
Ahh, sorry about that – yes that would be interesting due to the Green/Hippe/Feral demographic that live in the electorate
and Peter T has a very high profile with his role as Mayor of Fremantle, especially in light of the recent decision by the WA Libs to allow the transport of Lead through the town from Esperance, which is as a result of a recent lead scare which contaminated the local water supply and had killed some of the bird life.
GP,
At that stage Latham was a private citizen with his children at a McDonalds Restaurant. Latham objected to the photographer taking photos of his children. If it was me, the camera would not have been the only thing broken.
John Brumby was a member of the House of Representatives from I think 83 until losing his seat in 90.
Yep, actually at least a couple of former Premiers were former Federal politicians. Ray Groom, form Tasmanian Premier; and John Brumby.
Frank Calabrese, your knowledge of WA politics is great for me, as an ex-Perth person. I live for these tid-bits to feed back to my family!
Former S.A. premier John Olsen was a Senator for a couple of years too.
Rob Hulls Victoria Attorney General. Michael Hodgman in Tasmania.
Plenty going the other way including Menzies.
Actually it was Hungry Jacks, but the point remains that Latham was well within his rights as a parent to prevent photos of his children being taken – especially in the current climate of child pornography and Bill Henson.
Pardon my ignorance but what did Latham say about Janet A?
GG @ 82
sang along with Elvis, reckon there are a few on the edge of reality round here
He called her a skanky ho.
Thanks for that, bludgers. O.K. some of them moved because of losing their seat, were ther other circumstances?
Diogs,
“skanky ho” comes to mind. It’s in Hansard.
“Bush himself is the most incompetent and dangerous president in living memory.”
The defence rests.
Then there was the cowardly Costello’s attack on Michelle Grattan, saying she needed “a stronger prescription”. (Grattan wears thick glasses). A schoolboy-standard jibe from the biggest gutless wonder in the parliament.
Sir George Fuller went from being a federal MP to Premier of NSW. I’m struggling to think of many others.
How this is even close to calling a jurist on the high court a child molester, and a hirer of teenage prostitutes I’ll wait for G.P. to explain.
cuppa,
I’m sure Gratten has forgotten all about that jibe!
This argument over which side of politics has the worst behaving MPs isn’t very interesting.
It was budget day! He was suffering an extreme case of Relevance Deprivation Syndrome.
William… what’s that avatar you have? It’s looking very biblical.
This is a fascinating review, putting things in a new light for me:
“Skanky Ho” : My only memory of this incident was that Latham clearly had no idea what “skanky Ho” meant. It was just a really cool phrase he had heard and thought he’d try it out
” a stronger prescription” : At the time, I thought Peter Costello was referring to medicines, not spectacles
OK
To change the subject.
We had a major draft report on Health Care today – very little coverage.
Would you support a 0.75% increase in the medicare levy to have free dental care?
No 62
Markets unencumbered by governments allocate resources more efficiently. No matter what communists/socialists/marxists say, a central planner cannot possibly plan for every single occurrence.
I’m pretty sure that’s God from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Yep. I’ve got no qualms about being taxed higher for the provision of better health care.
No 134
ShowsOn, I did not excuse Heffernan’s remarks, but nor will I excuse Latham’s reprehensible attacks either. They are unparliamentary and appalling.
Ha haha har de har har, sorry GP they get us in the deep brown stuff.
Hockey:
“It is the responsibility of the Opposition at this time to put forward responsible and progressive policies that will help steer Australia through these difficult times,” the Member for North Sydney said.
Steer, steer…???
They still haven’t realised they’ve done none of the steering since Nov 07.
Talk about delusional.
But I do like the bit about “progressive” policies. If only, they might still have won in 07.
Hell yes!
GP,
“Markets unencumbered by government” is the cause of the GFC. Evidence would suggest that “markets” could not organise a root in a brothel with a fist full of fifties.
Tell us the story of the GFC, GP, a brilliant allocation of resources by unencumbered markets.
saw that as well andy c.
Who’d a thought the denial could last 14 months.
My favourite:
Yep real solid those foundations – they couldn’t even support the weight of the builder!
GP said
Poor GP, be the end of the year there is a fair chance the entire British ( well on the way) and USA banking system will be nationalized because of inefficiency, incompetence and waste. People who can’t get over old prejudices are going to find the next twelve months really hard to take.
Perhaps Jim McGinty (or others) might time his departure so the by-election could be held concurrently with the daylight saving referendum.
Correct.
My problem with the dental levy is that most dentistry is discretionary. It’s like a luxury for most people. Some people go twice a year or whatever and have lots of fillings, crowns, caps and cleaning. But what for? Are there outcomes to justify this expense?
Personally, I haven’t been to a dentist in 24 years and I still seem to be alive. Why add 0.75% in tax?
153 Diogenes my attitude to doctors. If they were depending on people like me for Doctors would all be broke.
Perhaps in the future they should make it that referendums can only be held at the time of an election of some kind.
Less money wasted…
Or, even better, stop using so many referendums.
“Would you support a 0.75% increase in the medicare levy to have free dental care?”
I defunately would. But I bet someone like GP wouldn’t, how dare the government partake in wealth redistribution!
GP 102
You must have missed my post about whether the Liberals would support inefficient farmers? The whole rural sector only contributes about 3% to GDP and not that much to exports. We export 80% of our food prduction so its not as though we need most of it to survive. Its very ineffcient in a resource usage sense but highly subsidised. Wouldn’t the Liberals want to stop inefficient farms?
Looking forward to your answer.
“Some people go twice a year or whatever and have lots of fillings, crowns, caps and cleaning. But what for?”
So they can keep their own teeth?
Diog
What is one of the major causes of heart disease? Rotten gums.
Why do teeth get treated differently to a pancreas?
I break a big toe – medicare. I break a tooth – big bucks.
I have an EPC medicare number – so I can get $4,000 worth of dental care in 48 months. Labor’s changes to this boofhead policy got knocked back by the Senate.
Your arguement is puerile.
Sounds like a lot of “Bull” to me.
Not if they are restricted by monopoly.
Not if they are restricted by monopsony.
Not if they are restricted by consumers who don’t know the value of goods and services (e.g. when consumers must rely on professionals to determine what to buy or sell)
Not if the good or service should not have a market at all for health and safety reasons.
Not if the good or service is unlikely to create a profit, meaning it won’t be provided by a free market.
Not if the market fails to count for secondary costs, not directly related to a primary market, e.g. environmental damage.
Yes, with the proviso that it shouldn’t be used for cosmetic dentistry (i.e. can’t be used just to make your teeth look better, but to fix problems, and of course for funding free checkups for everyone).
But Diog has a vested interest in this matter
These poor medicos would have to make sacrifices to the beamer, the annual ski holiday and the school fees. 
Who’s watching 4 Corners? This is damn scary stuff.
Generic Person
Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 7:58 pm | Permalink
No 70
If only this was true.
But some people with really crook and crooked teeth have major psycho-social issues, we are all attracted to people with “nice teeth” it is one of the first things we notice when we meet someone.
You’re kidding me, right. Please tell me you don’t believe that. Can you explain the mechanism for that gem? It went out with the systemic toxin theory of insanity. There is a correlation between gingivitis and atherosclerosis, not a causation.
I should add that most visits to the GP are a complete waste of time as well.
Ha, blanky, ha. Or as Tonto used to say, “How”?
ru,
Others turn it into a marketing opportunity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiPRN63sfPE&feature=PlayList&p=914A277E0326019E&playnext=1&index=4
“The potential role of periodontal disease, gingivitis and other dental infections as a possible chronic source of infection and inflammation represents a continuous challenge to the host organism. The high number of oral pathogens, lipopolysaccharides and soluble mediators are related to the pathogenesis of local inflammation and the initiation of systemic inflammation process, which may impair systemic health. In the last decades, studies suggested that there could be a connection between the local oral infections and several systemic conditions such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease, low birth weight and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death in the last century. The primary contributing factor in the majority of cardiovascular diseases is atherosclerosis. The role of infection is believed to provide a critical inflammatory stimulus that contributes to atherogenesis. The present review is a short summary of studies of the last years about the possible pathogenic role of local oral infections as a contributing factor in the initiation and progression of cardiovascular disease.”
Diog
Do you really want to debate this issue?
And heart valve failure which kills over 500 people per year in the US.
Frank
I drive an 89 Corolla, I’ve never seen snow and my children go to a public school.
If only you could give me antibiotics by blog!
Diogenes is the exception rather than the rule.
I would agree, especially when most visits for me invlove getting a repeat script for ongoing medications – you USED to be able to ring andask for a repeat over the phone and you’d just pick up the script, but now you are forced to wait over 2 hours just so the JP can do a couple of mouse clicks and print out a scripte.
Luckily my GP Bulk-Bills
Grog – and medical certificates!
ruawake
It’s an absolute crock. The vast majority of cardiologists go into hysterics when it is mentioned. There are a few dentists who keep it alive as a marketing tool.
Brendan Nelson to quit politics at the next election:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25064559-601,00.html
Brenda gone? LOLOL
scorpio
The link to heart valve disease is quite true, but it’s pretty uncommon. Subacute bacterial endocarditis causes it and it is related to gingival organisms. But you need to have an underlying heart valve abnormality for it to happen (eg from rheumatic fever).
He has a prime safe seat, so I wonder if the Liberals will try and find a star candidate.
Bloody hell, it’s like a ten green bootle convention for the Libs.
No 156
No, taxes should not be increased. I support Diogenes’ position on this.
No 157
Farmers should not be subsidised. Indeed, farmer subsidies across western nations are one of the contributing reasons to the ongoing poverty of many developing nations, particularly in Africa.
Oh for goodness sake, William’s avatar is specifically, Terry Gilliam’s “God” from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Mine’s Mr. Gumby, on account of there being no extant images of HSO, which from my point of view is sort of a pity, but I can live with Gumby as a sort of silly red herring for the unwary, or young, or pitiably unexposed to the Pythons.
Now, apart from who has the worst behaved pollies going, which is beginning to look like a reverse P***ing competition to me, does anyone know anything at all about the circumstances surrounding pollies moving from the Fed. to State sphere, other than them losing their seat.
No 178
An unfortunate loss to the party, but unsurprising nonetheless.
But you support putting the GST on everything, that’s a tax increase from 0 to 10% on some things.
The Liberals support more farm subsidies than Labor, they have to, else the Nats wouldn’t vote with them.
I wouldn’t expect any other answer from GP. Wealth redistribution in the form of a 0.75% increase to the medicare levy to enable universal dental treatment? How dare the socialists suggest such an idea!
Grog
It’s pretty uncommon for antibiotics to be indicated for the disease they are prescribed for as about 80% of illnesses the GP sees are due to viruses. GPs feel they have to prescribe something or the patient feels their visit was a waste of time and won’t come back. It wastes the patient’s time, gives them the risk of side effects and costs a lot for Medicare as well as the PBS.
GP
Still no comment about 102 – would the Liberals support inefficient farmers? You must have thought up a way to avoid the question by now… You remember, you were saying how private is ALWAYS more efficient than public.
No doubt Nelson can quit now, happy that Julie Bishop’s career is also over.
No 181
Rosanna Capolingua would be a reasonably good candidate. Although, I doubt she’d enjoy being parachuted in from Western Australia.
John Olsen had been leader of the opposition in S.A., he went to the Senate from 90 to 92, but then quit to become leader of the opposition again in S.A. He then won the 1993 election in a massive landslide (37 out of 47 seats).
No 190
I already responded to your inefficient farmer argument at 184.
Yeah, things must suck when even your deputy doesn’t support you in a leadership ballot.
“I wonder if the Liberals will try and find a star candidate”
I’m sure Corey Worthington would make the move North if her were offered a decent portfolio.
LOL!
I would love to see Peter Debnam make the transition to federal politics. Maybe that is the way they can get him out of his state seat.
Diogenes, doctors I visit never prescribe antibiotics for a virus-related issue. Only if there is bacteria.
Showson, Olsen wasn’t Liberal leader in 1993, Brown was. And the Libs didn’t win 1993, Labor lost 1993.
You didn’t respond to my explanation of why free markets don’t ALWAYS allocate resources efficiently.
No 197
Ugh. Peter Debnam need not grace the Federal Parliament with his imbecility.
Ta, Shows On.
Matbe they’ll Tap Julie on the shoulder and ask that she retires from Politics,and thus paving the way for Dr Capolingua:-) Or there is always the seat of Tangney
GP
I don’t agree that no dental care should be under Denticare, as there are plenty of conditions that should be. Trauma, pain, significant gingivitis etc should be, just as a broken toe etc is under Medicare, as my wise colleague ruawake has eloquently pointed out.
But a huge amount is discretionary and of questionable benefit (the same is true for GP visits) and therein lies the problem.
Oh of course. He lost the leadership ballot, but then won another one in 1996.
Those two shared the leadership for so long that I got mixed up.
Incidentally, John Bannon was one of my politics lecturers at uni.
Anyone recall the deptuy voting against a leader before (challenges excepted)
Diogenes, things like fillings should be covered.
Because without fillings, decay gets worse.
No 199
And when they don’t, there are consequences. Old news.
Geez Diog
All the published, peer reviewed evidence says you are wrong. If you wish to remain uneducated about the link between oral health and systemic disease, fair enough.
I have changed medical “specialists” views before –
Just what the Libs need – a ding-dong battle for a safe NSW seat, culminating in the choice of another crooked, ultra-rightist, branch-stacking, David Clarke acolyte like Michael Towke, who then has to be dug out like a bad tooth.
bob1234
In principle that sounds good. But plenty of dentists put in fillings for minor disease that will cure itself. Just as plenty of doctors give out scripts for diseases which will get better by themselves.
What’s this, OnlineDenistry.com.au?
Yeah fair enough. But surely there must be a line drawn somewhere. For example, what about teeth whitening? I personally don’t think that should be covered.
WTF!? This is a non-answer.
Anyone in Sydney want to help branch stack Nelson’s seat?
Oh c’mon GP! He’d be the first Australian parliamentarian to approach the despatch box in speedos!
That’s what happens when David Clarke gets his way. He appoints morons tot he leadership of the party.
He wants the customs portfolio, because he is an expert in smuggling things.
Ceiling cat, now I’m really confused about who left what for whatever reasons, apropos the Fed to State move.
There is evidence of correlation between poor dentition and cardiac pathology, but I don’t have it to hand at home (well, actually that’s not true. I could probably go and do a lit. search, but I’m back into the fire fields tomorrow, and I’m diverting myself with the bludgers, before then, because, well, you’re really good at it). It’s more complicated than that correlation, because of the clusters of chronic health problems that tend to compound each other.
William etc: is there a link for that Freo story? And has the Herald got onto it yet?
I reckon Tagliaferri would be a pretty sure bet if he ran in a by-election… whether for Labor, the Greens or as an independent. If he goes for Labor, Tagliaferri vs. Greens will be pretty interesting – the Liberal vote might go the way of the Dockers last season.
Bruce Goodluck thought a chicken suit would make him seem more intelligent.
Chances are he was right …
Inner Westie, Don Dunstan came close.
Do you mean that people with tooth decay also tend to be unfit, so they get heart disease for other reasons unrelated to tooth decay, but they have that as well? i.e. they eat unhealthy foods which both results in tooth decay, and makes them fat?
ruawake
I’m always happy to change my opinions if the evidence is good enough. You have changed my opinions on a few things already and made me look at things differently, for which I am genuinely very grateful.
If you have a good review on the link between gingivitis and atherosclerosis from something like the NEJM, Lancet, JAMA, Heart or similar, I would enjoy reading it.
HSO: here’s a funny titbit of info. Rob Hulls (Vic attorney-general these days) was beaten in the federal seat of Kennedy by none other than Bob Katter, still the member and now an independent with a very big hat. I just can’t imagine him and a Melbourne politician having anything in common, but there you go. (And the member Hulls knocked off was Katter Sr.)
Hugo Chavez wins referendum to end term limit:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25060973-601,00.html
Dentalaid is a great idea. About time those dentists decreased their fees and services. Hopily bringing dentists services under medicare will allow many of the poor to get access to dental services and have the abilty to get meat and toffees again.
Just got done watching The Blues Brothers on DVD …. even for all the laughs in that movie, thinking of Abbot as party leader, let alone state leader after having won an election is funnier
……. would like to know what Alex Mitchell was smoking 
bob1234
Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 5:42 pm | Permalink
#13
“Ron, talking about intelectual discipline. What a hoot! ”
had you not madly rushed in but instead actualy read my #10 , subject was Steven K foolishly thinking he had intelectual capacity up to Generic Person’s level when clearly he doesn’t
seems you’ve just made an intelectual hoot of yourself
Or the Libs won’t run a candidate, though in this case they need all the By-Election Wins to ensure they stay in power
Not surprised to see Nelson go actually either. Now, we just need to see the same announcement from Costello and a few others …..
No 210
The Labor Party doesn’t have an excellent history with respect to branch stacking either.
But to be honest, so long as a proposed candidate isn’t a complete idiot, I don’t mind banal branch politics being circumvented for the purposes of getting a decent candidate elected.
Is that kind of like a large owl?
My guess is he will get on the board of a private health insurance provider.
What’s wrong with scones, lamingtons and cups of herbal tea!?
It will be very interesting to see what the dentists say about Denticare. Most must be making a good wage already and don’t want to be “nationalised”. In the USA, when they tried to bring in a Medicare equivalent, the AMA threw out any doctors who supported it!
Hulls didn’t knock off Katter Sr. Katter Sr retired because he was dying. Hulls beat a Nat called Ross Shannon.
Shows On, there are different populations that need to be considered in terms of the clustering of health problems which compound other health problems. One relatively straight forward population are those who have a serious cardiac event and depression. If you don’t treat the depression, they’ll mostly have another, usually fatal cardiac event. Colleague here in Melbourne has done the research, David Barton, and published on it. Can’t recall exactly where, but he’s certainly convinced the cardiologists at a major Melbourne hospital. From memory, his research established that clotting rates were affected by the neurological changes that depression caused.
Ta, Bird of Paradox, very droll.
seems you’ve just made an intelectual hoot of yourself
‘Is that kind of like a large owl? ‘
more like an intelectual large owl…..in his case
Glen, G.P., The Howard Years is out on DVD at an ABC Shop near you!
Is it in the horror section or the fantasy section?
Woah, that’s fascinating, I would’ve never thought those things were connected.
So that means it wears glasses, and has a blackboard? How cute!
They’d be stupid not to, governing with 24 members out of 59. They’ll be lucky to get 25% of the vote, but there’s always the ghost of a chance. Who knows, Tagliaferri might do a D’Orazio and direct preferences to a surprised-looking Liberal. That’s unlikely too, but they’ll want to take every chance they can get.
I’ll be more interested in a Kalgoorlie by-election, govt-wise. If Bowler has to resign through more CCC stuff like Norm Marlborough did, that seat is winnable for Labor, and if they won that they’d be just one seat short of a majority. Brendon Grylls (with or without his party) might get a bit tempted if that happens. Alternatively: if you can believe Bowler siding with the Liberals, Janet Woollard siding with Labor isn’t so much of a stretch. (Yet another thing that probably won’t happen.)
Well, you certainly are a diverting mob. Just when I think I’ve been informed, someone else, thank you Adam, informs me otherwise.
Bit like, when we argue about anything else really.
No 238
I find the Dismissal much more enjoyable.
They’ll just put copies in both and let the consumer decide.
I wish ABC would reissue Labor in Power on DVD.
“Is it in the horror section or the fantasy section?”
I’d think comedy myself.
Actually the link between depression and heart disease, which is well-established, is probably due to lifestyle factors. People with depression exercise less, smoke more and are less compliant with taking their medications.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/38899/title/Lifestyle_may_link_depression_and_heart_disease
And tragedy.
No 244
I do too. I’ve only ever seen excerpts of it.
more like an intelectual large owl
“So that means it wears glasses, and has a blackboard? How cute!’
tinted of course , nothing but th best …for those intelectual large owls
GP,
I lived it. It was the best thing since bottled beer.
Bought any good Blu-rays lately? I was considering getting this $249 player:
http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/kogan-blu-ray-player-full-hd-1080p/
Unlike most name brand players, the region coding can be changed, so I could start buying Criterion Collection Blu-rays.
Shows On, I’ll have to dig out the references for folk like Diog and others who are interested, but it seems the” knee bone is connected to the thigh bone”, in more intricate ways than we thought possible.
I’m still hoping the Neilsen will turn up tomorrow, as I can’t see much point in doing one last week (himself indoors) and not publishing till March, as apparently Possum was informed.
Yeah good old Gough and the Bottled Beer Act 1972.
Totally.
Maybe it takes them that long to make a complete sample?
I did the Morgan Face to Face poll a month ago, the guy told me only about 1 in 10 people actually do the survey.
Here’s another series that should be out on DVD: ‘The Downer Months’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFbtckAFyA
GG
“accidently”…I taped footy over th last 1/2 hour of th dismissal…did Fraser ever become PM
“From appalling errors to astonishing mistakes.”
On a more serious note, a Micallef Programme box set is high up on my list of things to buy once I get a job (or get some of Rudd’s $$$). It’s a classic pogram.
Ron sort of,
But, his life was later serialised in a televison show “My name is Mal” where the star spends all his waking hours trying to undo the damage he has done to democracy.
Karma is a beautiful thing.
Howard to seek preselection for Bradfield?
Dennis would love it.
Peter wouldn’t.
No 251
I purchased a Playstation 3 in January 2008, but to be honest I stopped collecting Blu-Rays. I realised that the expense was unnecessary because I don’t typically re-watch a lot of the films I buy. I reserve purchases for excellent films only.
Like THERE WILL BE BLOOD! Which I watched on Blu-ray over a friend’s place. It looks amazing.
GP for Bradfield! Let’s start a Facebook page.
John Taylor on Lateline. Oh joy.
He is angling for the Senate. You said that is where the extremists go.
I wish the ABC would release ths on DVD , which featured several Labor & Liberal pollies as Extras.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corridors_of_Power_(TV_series)
thanks GG , feel alot better now , suppose your mate Karma taught Fraser life was not meant to be easy afteral
Nah, I want a 4 way pre-selection battle betwwen GP, Glen, Bree & Dyno
By announcing his retirement so early, won’t that just help the David Clarke faction branch stack it out? So hasn’t Nelson done the right of the party a big favour?
Well poor Senator Fielding can get off the streets and get a good nights sleep now, seems like Rudd is looking after the unemployed
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25064493-662,00.html
No 263
Pity I don’t live in North Sydney and nor do I wish to migrate there. I’d much prefer Lowe.
My guess is that Bree would do a Steven Bradbry and win after the others kill each other via their dirty tricks units.
The Howard Years should not be available to minors. An article in this month’s issue of Science cites the work of a team of Brisbane-based pediatric neuroscientists who have discovered a dangerous link between mental illnesses such as depression and dysthymia and exposure to any information related to John Howard. This is only evident among children aged between 3 and 16.
The ABC should recall these products immediately.
speculation abounds,does that mean you can buy shares in Costello on the futures market?
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25065122-5005941,00.html
No, that’s Hockey’s seat
Rudd basically told everyone he was announcing something like this. It is sad that Fielding didn’t know / realise / believe him.
No 275
Bradfield is on Sydney’s north shore Dario.
Pity Nelson isn’t going at an election now. I’d love to see how the Liberal vote holds up so soon after the Coalition tried to block the stimulus package.
As a resident on the border of Bradfield and North Sydney, I am aware of that GP
You’ll never win Lowe again. It might well be abolished this year anyway.
No 279
Stop being facetious.
No 280
That’s rather presumptuous of you Adam.
If so, will Mr Stroganoff run for a different seat, or will he retire?
Hahahaha, it’s my middle name
This Taylor guy just doesnt get it
Is their a high profile candidate labor could use ala Mckew?
now there would be cause for senior libs strategists to poop themselves
Poor bloke. Wandering around Lake Burley Griffin in his jim-jams and Bert and Ernie slippers before getting all puffed-up and prickly in the senate, and now … he’s got nothing to show for it …
(Oooooooo, it’s the curse of Danny Nalliah.)
What about that weather bloke who ran for North Sydney last time?
Is Steve Waugh still being courted?
Mike Bailey, yeah who knows
No 285
He is not particularly charismatic, but his argument is persuasive.
Gee
the libs would be tied in knots defending the heartland.
and they would be bloding anew face as well
plus they are the opposition
Cardio Classics an Orchestral Workout, out now in an ABC Shop near you!.
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=303370
LOL!
No 290
Bailey had a particularly bad interview with Hockey on Sky News, where one particular question left Bailey rummaging through his notes for more than a minute to look for a response – all on camera of course.
Lateline now at, clearing trees around your home will save it. Maybe the reporter should look at a photo in The Age on Saturday of a house which survived with trees all around it.
More trees mean more carbon sinks, but according to the ABC and The Age it would be better if people who moved from the city to the country did what they do in the City and cleared all the trees.
Pathetic lateline i wonder if it is going to show an economic advisor who agrees with Rudds economic approach, what is the ABC scared of? Time some of these dills went.
I live in Bradfield. If GP comes here, i will migrate.
It’s about time the Libs put someone decent here, ala Sexy Maxy. Else i will vote Communist.
I reckon the government will be quoting some of his malarkey back at Turnbull next week.
Good idea, but he would be better in the Western suburbs, Keating’s old seat of Blaxland would be ideal.
Hockey is clearly the best Liberal performer in Parliament, and it would be interesting to see how he goes against Swan. If they do not change their economic thinking no shadow treasurer will be able to lay a finger on the present economic ideas which are far superior.
0.75% for dental is a steal. It would certainly bring into control, the outrageous fees that many charge.
This can bring about huge improvements to a populations overal health. No one mentioned the mounting evidence that many miscarriages are linked to dental decay. Also take a few years off your life expectancy if you don’t have your own teeth
It’s a psephological observation. Inner city Sydney has been getting worse for you for 30 years. Lowe and Barton were once marginals but you won’t win them again.
I’d love to see a contest between Mike Bailey (ALP) and Tim Bailey (Totally Psyched! Party).
I’m waiting for the 2015 election when Labor eases Leigh Sayles into the House.
No 295
The heinous revelation in that story is that the gentleman was fined $50,000 for clearing trees.
“Pathetic lateline i wonder if it is going to show an economic advisor who agrees with Rudds economic approach,…”
No, exact opposite in fact. Jones will be speaking with the US economist that Turnbull likes to quote, the one who advocates tax cuts.
Hey, here’s an interesting thing I just dug up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_state_by-election,_1990
When Jim McGinty came into WA parliament (also in a by-election), the other main candidates were Arthur Marshall for the Libs (later member for Dawesville, and Channel 9 newsreader Dixie’s dad), and Christabel Chamarette for the Greens (later WA Senator). Sounds like a pretty good by-election to be in. The Greens got 12.4% of the vote, which surprised me a bit – were they that big back in 1990?
LOL the shitfight that will stir up over Bradfield will be hilarious…so many apparatchiks will be stumbling overthemselves for a safe seat…
My only hope is the party can weed out the scum and get someone who is talented and young (younger than 40) into Parliament…
Generic Person
Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 10:42 pm | Permalink
No 263
” I’d much prefer Lowe.”
used in live in Lowe , which part you’d move to , and whicareas you feel you can win back as wealth & educ splits there
No 300
We may not win it for some time but I doubt your conclusion that we’d never win it again. The seat is actually rather balanced in terms of the socio-economic status of its voting population.
Blaming government intervention for the GFC and spruiking broad tax cuts (which would favour the rich) as the solution? Persuasive if you’re a right winger I’m sure.
Why has Van Onselen gone from being an Associate Professor to just a plan old Dr? Did he get demoted for editing a book that a credited author didn’t actually contribute to?
“…the gentleman was fined $50,000 for clearing trees.”
I understood he was fined $50,000 for willfully breaking the law.
For once i agree with the current economic thinking adopted, thus the spending on infrastructure. The Libs views and this Taylor dork would send us into a deeper hole.
My view is that we need to go back to owning our infrastructure services. Hence much of the current probs in Victoria due to the heatwave and perhaps the bushfires have been caused by the privatisation of infrastrucuture servicing and a massive lack of spending.
Possum’s analysis
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/01/25/seat-of-the-day-2-bradfield/#more-3603
Interesting fact
the 2pp has gone from under 25% 1996
32% 2004
to almost 40% 2007
No 306
Yes, someone preferably in there late 20s, early 30s.
Glen,
“weed out the scum”
Don’t be bashful, name names.
Showy, Labor should put Leigh for Bradfield. She’ll romp in with my support.
No 311
A breach which just so happened to save his home.
Actually, Janet Albrechtsen would be perfect for Bradfield.
Finns,
You seem keen to show fair lady Sayles your preferences.
I’d move house across the border just for her!
GP, if Janet Albrechtsen comes here, i will also migrate
Maybe PJK could be coaxed out of semiretirement
317
But he bulldozed the trees months ago.
Nah, not enough tanning salons in Chatswood these days
GG, i have suffered that Nelson fool for the last 4 elections!!!! cant wait to have Leigh here.
Is Howard’s son back from helping the Republicans win in the US? He’d be under 30 and a Liberal Party blue blood to boot
Even in 1996 you only won Lowe with a 2.5% majority – not very good in a landslide year in a seat which Bill McMahon held for more than 30 years. The demographics are sliding away from you. It’s becoming an inner-city multiculti cosmopolitan seat, and we inner-city cosmos don’t vote Liberal. Maybe you should run for Newcastle – the Hunter is gradually getting worse for us as the old working class disappears.
Maybe Howie could make a comeback?
No 323
Steve, the point is that the legislation needs urgent revision such that it does not penalise people for the elementary task of protecting their homes and livelihoods. The price that has been paid for this green zealotry is that some 95% of particular towns have been obliterated by fires which is just appalling. Of course, this is not aided by maniacal arsonists.
as what?
Or daughter Melanie, though being divorced from Hubby might not go down too well with the Blue Bloods, and being a single mum to boot
No 321
Would be no great loss to Bradfield.
Frank,
Never stopped Princess Di being popular.
Van Onselen was found to have plagiarised his title. (If he’d cited the man from whom he took it, Associate Professor Funkenstein, everything would have been alright.)
Can anyone imagine having JWH and that battle axe as in laws???
No 331
I don’t believe she has divorced her husband. They are currently separated last I read, which is a terrible circumstance given that they have a young child.
Actually it would be good to have:
Janet Albrechtsen vs Leigh Sayles here at Bradfield, it will like:
Phyllis Dillis Vs Angeline Jolie
“Nah, not enough tanning salons in Chatswood these days”
Were there ever enough?
How about we get Larry Anthony??
ABC learning cant be doing that good and he didnt really fit in well as a Nat?
ala Sexy Maxy. ?
No 338
I’ve met Janet and she is quite luscious in real life.
No 341
The only sexy thing about Maxine is her voice.
Melanie Howard has been divorced? I didn’t know that.
Glen, Larry Anthony will never be able to show his face in politics again after having been a paid flack for Eddie Groves. You guys have NOT heard the last of ABC learning, believe me.
329
Yes the laws should be reviewed (and no doubt will be) but we can’t have people taking the law into their own hands. Next we’ll have people clearing trees because they block a particular view of some other natural attraction. Of course the reason given to the authorities would be “I considered them a fire hazard.”
LOL! He was on the board of ABC Learning! Labor could run a killer scare campaign pointing out that he’s an incompetent failure.
Oh, and he’s a Nat.
From the OED: “luscious: Sweet and highly pleasant to the taste or smell.”
GP, you dirty dirty creature …
Adam
LA doesn’t want to go to the big house? Perhaps he wants to stay out of the big house.
GP, is she Italian?
It’s true!
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24959356-5007133,00.html
That’s what I get for spending January in China.
And her dancing GP, who can ever forget that at the watermelon festival?
Further to my 305 post: there’s an independent by the name of ‘Pietro Tagliaferri’ in that 1990 by-election, who got 3.6% of the vote. I wonder if that’s the Freo mayor going by his Italian name? I think he was on the council at the time, so it’s plausible.
Howie isnt a happy man, having Howie pissed at you for ruining his daughters life is not a smart move…
No 338
Actually, Boston Legal’s Rhona Mitra would be perfect. And far better than frumpy Leigh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a_PBRlNaCA
What’s he going to do – have him deported to Nauru? “Howie”’s days of menace are over, Glen.
WHAT! This Taylor guy doesn’t know about the University of Chicago study on how cash handouts effect spending!? Even The Australian reported on it!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25032715-5013404,00.html
The actual study is here:
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/christian.broda/website/research/unrestricted/Stimulus%20Payments%20and%20Spending.pdf
No 351
I was at that festival campaigning for Mr Howard. She was absolutely obscene.
Leigh Sayles FRUMPY!? You have lost all sense.
This law regarding trees must be fairly specific to Victoria.
I know that in at least some LGA’s in NSW there’s mandatory clearing distances of 30m.
No wonder Howie has taken up sitar playing and the Eastern religion now that Melanie has broken melody.
http://www.crikey.com.au/Media/images/080118-Howard-sitar1-08552728-ae1d-4bf7-989f-acd01c7b15f4.jpg
No 358
Come on, even Chris Bath on Channel 7 is more polished.
Perhaps Labor could select the moribund Helen Dalley from Sky News?
Leigh Sayles FRUMPY!?
I suppose the sight of Bronwyn Bishop in a low cut dress and stilettos is more appealing GP?
Yeah, not really a fan of Leigh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8AJS-qCYdY
And here it is kinda….
No 362
Perhaps to Wilson Tuckey. Not me, however.
Ha! Taylor just admitted that sometimes tax cuts don’t work, as they didn’t in 2008.
Now he is saying rely on the automatic stabilisers to fix everything!
How pleasant it is not to know who any of these people are.
OZ
if you’d heard th non news reportd info I’ve heard from source on ground on reel fire toll , you fair dinkum wouldn’t worry about any trees near houses being choped down
Or Mandy Vanstone.
What about Nicole Chettle?
http://tvnewsroom.co.uk/nz/images/abc/reporters/nicolechettle/vlcsnap-2702486.jpg
I’m pretty sure that is the case as he was the owner of Interfoods in Fremantle at the time (which he has since sold once he became Mayor).
GP: If you’re ever in Perth, can I interest you in Susanna Carr?
By automatic stabilisers the conservatives mean unemployment will automatically increase to ensure the wrong people are not out of pocket.
I prefer the Indian Curry Puff, Katrina Kaif:
http://www.katrinakaifweb.com/katrina-kaif-wallpapers/katrina-kaif-wallpaper13.jpg
359 Oz
Not sure about the details of the charge he faced but the guy in question had cleared an area greater than 30 metres from the building.
Ha! I remember Interfoods… I’m still grumpy about it shutting. It was a great cafe, and was known around Murdoch uni for its $3.50 coffee and muffin deal (you don’t see that for under $5 these days, even as a special). Huge muffins, made by Mrs Tagliaferri… I occasionally couldn’t finish one. These days it’s become the third or fourth ice cream place on the cappuccino strip instead… such a shame.
Now you know why the OZ Cricketers keep going back to India, especially Brett Lee. They love the Indian Curry Puffs.
Oh god… I feel so ill
Hot damn
Bloody hell. What should Swan do about these Chinese conglomerates trying to buy into Australian mining companies? First Rio Tinto, now Oz Minerals?
Showy, red lanterns will be sufficient.
No 379
Swan should do nothing.
I think I’d O.D. on cough medication if I was the Japanese finance minister.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/16/2492922.htm
If he did that Costello would serve him a writ for plagiarism.
You could have cut down trees 30 metres around every home on Saturday last and that would not have made a difference. The wind going at up to 100 km an hour and fire that intense it would not have stopped its intensity and efforts. Sorry we need to look at the what allowed the fire to become so damaging and it was the drought, and heatwave and also ask what can we do about it? Also think about whether we should be building in these areas thus reducing the need for electricity wires. Underground bunkers should also be looked at.
383
ShowsOn – that’s very good.
Yep, who became a widow about a year or so back – though she was, and may still be a member of Amnesty International.
Here is a selection of Susanah Carr Bloopers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lKzJZC_YOc
And here is her 20th Anniversary on Ch 7 Perth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnJMJzHr2Yc
Costello turned down Turnbulls offer as Treasurer, because he still believes that one day he can be Prime Minister. He is like Andrew Peacock a deluded sole who thinks that the Australian electorate likes him. Sorry Peter but one look at you and electorate looks away.
No 386
Can’t say I fancy her. Sydney’s Chris Bath is superior.
It is funny you say that, because Costello blocked Woodside Petrolium from being bought by Shell, and he blocked Air New Zealand from buying Ansett, because it is partly owned by Singapore Airlines.
So Costello must rank as the most protectionist treasurer since, well, John Howard.
#382 – he will not last long. btw; Mr. Aso’s popularity is 9%. It makes Turnbull looks like Mr. Popular.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_339151.html
And here is Sussanah with former WA Premier Alan Carpenter when the WA Govt donated $1,000,000 to mark the 40th Anniversary of the TVW 7 Perth Telethon.
(I have posted this before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nh6zotlC0E
The look on Susannah’s face says it all.
No 387
The fact that Costello turned down the Shadow Treasury portfolio should come as no surprise. The longest serving Treasurer with the longest-held desire to become Prime Minister is hardly going to jump at the opportunity of becoming Shadow Treasurer. It’s plain common sense and hardly represents a “rocky” start for Hockey as Lateline tried to infer.
marky marky.
Quite right.
There was a story on one news service (7.30 Report maybe) about a guy who had an above ground bunker. Cost $3000 and it saved his life. Simple inexpensive things like that should will be part of standard building regulations in the bush.
I think this is how Costello thinks he will become P.M.
1) Kevin Rudd’s government passes a bill through parliament banning the Australian Labor Party
2) Kevin Rudd visits the Governor General and asks Mrs Bryce to sack him, and appoint Peter Costello Prime Minister
3) Peter Costello calls a double dissolution election which he wins, with the Greens in opposition
GP,
Who leaked that Costello was offerred the job first and why?
No 395
I haven’t the slightest idea. And why does it matter? Costello has the most experience on Treasury matters in the Federal Parliament thus it is natural that he would be the first point of call despite the unlikelihood of him accepting the offer.
What I think it represents is that Costello still doesn’t have confidence that he has superior arguments, ideas, and policies.
GP,
It matters because “Joking Joe” is second choice and is labelled as such from the outset.
No 397
ShowsOn, Costello is consistently dominating in debates. Had it been Costello, not Hockey, on Lateline last week, Tanner would have been punished. At the very least, the outcome would have been more balanced.
For Costello, it’s all about the timing. Of course, it suits the ALP for Costello to become leader now, but Costello can afford to wait.
My guess is that Turnbull would have leaked it
No 398
GG, you’re making something out of nothing. If you were leader of the Liberals, and had on your backbench Australia’s longest serving Treasurer, you would of course consult him first for the job of Shadow Treasurer. No-one is more experienced than Costello.
at what exactly?
If Costello was offerd th job then tunrbull has no politcal nouse , because of course Costello would refuse it unless you foolishly thought Costello after being treasuer for 12 years still wanted to be shadow treasurer
So asking a queston you klnow answer to only leads to GG’s #398 point , & poor politcs Now if it was falsely leaked by Libs thats just as bad , but if leaked falsly by labor well clever
I’ve heard Costello interviewed lately and he is a lightweight without Treasury behind him.
If he is so good at debating, why doesn’t he contribute to parliamentary debates?
He has made TWO parliamentary speeches in the last 16 months, and one of them was to a condolence motion!
OK, let’s pretend Turnbull makes it to the next election but loses, would it be Costello’s time then? Should he challenge for the leadership, and potentially be in the job for a full term?
I’d bet London to a brick it was Turnbull who spilled that Costello knocked it back.
This way a fair bit of heat being applied to his hold on power by Costello backers both in the Parliamentary Party and outside Libs will be neutered to a large degree.
I don’t think Costello’s high media profile a fortnight ago went down too well with Malcolm and it certainly rejuvenated the Costello cheer squad.
Their is presently no one in the Liberal ranks who can win them an election next time round. Turnbull perhaps is their best bet, but in the last few months he has shown just plain stupidity and economic dumbness. I thought he could win once because i thought he had some intelligence but he has become the John Hewson of the Liberal Party just plain stupid. Unlike Hewson he currently believes in nothing absolutely nothing. He is embarrassing himself by the current way he is acting regarding policy and not supporting government policy.
Hear, hear! He has two policy objectives 1) government should never be in net debt ever 2) any surplus money should be spent on transfer payments to middle class families and / or tax cuts
No vision, no nation building strategy, nothing for education don’t worry about spending on health. No infrastructure spending (oh, except a pork barrel roads programme to keep the Nats happy).
Yes, GP I remember how punishing an interviewee Costello was when he had that tandem interview with his conjoined twin John Howard on the 7.30 Report.
Brilliant stuff, he cut Red Kerry to ribbons …
He was with Treasury behind him,
Remember when he couldn’t work out the tax payable on the new marginate rate of income tax, his rate for which he was resposible, fumbled around and got it wrong by a factor of about 3 times?
That is something millions of Australians can do every year, but the Treasurer, as he ws at the time, could not.
I don’t think poor old Nelson would appreciate the ABC doing a timeline of his achievements since December 2000 especially these two “records”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/16/2493069.htm
Wasn’t that on that show Lucky used to host? (Today Tonight)
Costello is unelectable, and that is shown time after time in the Polls. The media and big business may love him but average Joe who wins elections for leaders hate him- simple.
He is unattractive to look at and smug and arrogant. People hate these people.
Keating was hated and only one because he faced a dill like Hewson who had big hated policy ideas.
No 405
I’m not in a position to comment authoritatively on why he hasn’t contributed. My personal view is that it would be seen as attempting to undermine Turnbull/Bishop.
As for a potential challenge, I’d say 12-18 months prior to an election is a good time to challenge. Then again, this is all dependent on the political environment in the future and obviously neither of us can predict it, except to say that Labor will be in for at least two terms.
GP,
Yes and anyone with a smick of nous would have known that if Costello is coming back it is as Leader.
Turnbull trying to be seen as conciliating Costello in the Liberal strategy last week and now with this offer as Shadow Treasurer shows poor judgement and a lack of leadership skills.
The only thing that will stop Costello is results in the polls. Given Turnbull has willingly incinerated the traditional Liberal lead on economic management and has blithely accepted a hit in the polls, his future does not look bright.
As for Costello, he is playing the serial murderer. First Nelson, then Bishop. Turnbull is hanging on by a thread. But, the ones he really wants are Minchin and Abbott.
one=won
and Costello only won Higgins because the Liberal’s original choice, Glenn Wheatley who is John Farnham’s Manager and was recently a guest of Her Majesty’s chain of correctional facilities was in a spot of bother in matters both financial, and with a certain nightclub in Melbourne
Lowe will probably be re-named McMahon this year
Werriwa will exist until they can re-name it Whitlam
What? Even making a second reading speech when Bishop and Turnbull aren’t even in the chamber?
IMO a parliamentarian that can’t make at least one contribution to a debate in a sitting WEEK shouldn’t be a parliamentarian.
So a year out from the election this term? Or do you think Costello is waiting to make a move NEXT term?
I’ll just point out that Turnbull achieved this by adopting a policy that you endorse, the pro-unemployment economic policy.
Marky Marky , i thought you were right th first time
No 415
Yes, I accept that. I don’t think it was particularly useful for Turnbull to ask Costello because he already knew the answer. That being said, Turnbull is not going to forfeit the leadership either and probably asked Costello out of desperation due to the damage done by Bishop.
I wanted to vomit when that guy turned up on Channel 9’s Bush Fire Appeal. What the hell was that crook doing there?
Shows On,
I’ve told you before about cutting and pasting. 419 has wrong attributions.
Costello camp denies shadow offer
http://www.theage.com.au/national/costello-camp-denies-shadow-offer-20090216-899k.html
the plot thickens
That post wasn’t directed to you.
Shows On,
Your last comment is misleadign then.
Sorry, I wrote “you” but I meant G.P.
That’s exactly why he asked him
I’d say next term, but it is impossible to judge. I think it hinges on the economy – if things really go pear-shaped, Rudd will be in trouble.
Generic Person
“Yes, I accept that. I don’t think it was particularly useful for Turnbull to ask Costello because he already knew the answer”
Think you ar very kind on turnbull’s politcal nous , Costello’s answer was obvous , a no always
Of course great chanse it was a leak , costello did make a little flutter all of a sudden a few weeks ago (If he wasgoing to chalenge it would be no earlier than October 12 months out)
This is further evidence that Costello is a political dunce. What about the two separate plagiarism affairs? What about not knowing the interest rate? What about the cut taxes to increase revenue comment? What about the “just wait and see” method of dealing with a recession?
Seriously, Costello may be a good debater (provided he is in Government), but he is a hopeless politician. If the Liberals ever make him party leader they’ll regret it in a couple of years at the most.
But wouldn’t that STRENGTHEN Turnbull?
Say what you will about Nelson and Turnbull, at least they had the guts to take on the worst job in politics – opposition leader to a first term government. Costello just isn’t up to their level of political bravery.
You’re probably right ShowsOn @412. I do remember being mesmerised by Costello’s glazed, sickly grin throughout the interview, to the extent that I may be mistaken as to who was conducting it.
It certainly wasn’t Costello.
“Mr Costello is believed to have told people that Ms Bishop had done nothing wrong”.
At the same time he implied she had done nothing right. it’s like the fulsome support of her Leader. Beware the accolade!
Do you remember the last interview Howard did on The 7:30 Report? When Kerry tore him to shreds, and Howard looked like he wanted to go home half way through?
SowOn , not sure you realize what you did , you were arguing against GG’s quote (that was correct) as if it was Generic Person’s quote
ShowsOn
#419
GP quotes and your ShowOn’s ansdwers
then inserted GG post #415
“The only thing that will stop Costello is results in the polls. Given Turnbull has willingly incinerated the traditional Liberal lead on economic management and has blithely accepted a hit in the polls, his future does not look bright.”
then ShowOn’s answer…to GG’s post
“I’ll just point out that Turnbull achieved this by adopting a policy that you endorse, the pro-unemployment economic policy.”
Oh please. Costello is scarcely going to behead Bishop in public, just like you’d never get an admission from Rudd or Gillard that Latham was a raving lunatic.
Perhaps. But Turnbull has failed to mount successful attacks against the government. I still think his accent and verbosity are a problem. He’s just not an effective performer in the media.
I must say, what a master stroke by QLD Labor. Get a Melbourne-based company to design the election campaign website, get some News Ltd trash rags hooked on to the story, and voila. Publicity money can’t buy.
After all, who changes their vote based on who designed a campaign website? Not one.
Ron,
Shows On sorted it at 427.
Cheers.
Always wonder why the Conservative side put so much faith in Costello,he was treasurer but he relied on Treasury advice,he is a Keating described him Tip.
Now the same treasury officers are giving the advice and suddenly its all wrong, give me a break,the only thing Costello would be good at is like most conservatives,a night cart man,he might make a go of but I doubt he’s a Coward,still GP and Glen dream on
http://business.theage.com.au/business/stimulus-an-investment-in-the-future-20090215-8849.html
The coalition must know that their excuse for opposing the Federal Government’s now-passed $42 billion economic package, on the grounds that it would place an intolerable burden on future generations, is nonsense.
The coalition clearly had no alternative economic strategy for dealing with the deepening recession except to hope that blocking the stimulus package would lead to rising unemployment that could be blamed on the Rudd Government and carry the them back into government at the next election, in 2010.
Apart from being immoral, this could be labelled a high-risk strategy likely to blow up in their faces.
Most in business, even the most partisan Liberal and National Party supporters, can see that Australia (and other countries such as the US and Britain) are caught in the condition Keynes called the “paradox of thrift”. The threat of rising unemployment and high levels of household debt means that the first priority of individual consumers is to cut debt, not increase spending.
—–
And some were complaining the stimulus would be used by people to cut their debt?
GG , missed showOns #427 , fast posts tonite
“Always wonder why the Conservative side put so much faith in Costello”
believe because they still think 2010 is winnable , and no one else seems to hav any chanse of beating rudd , so look backwards , instead of looking at 2013
So Costello is going to hang back, wait for the polls to turn, then mount an attack. If he really wants the job he should go for it now. If he really is the Liberal’s best hope, they should put him in as leader and tell him he has 4 years without the threat of a challenge.
When you see statistics like this, it’s easy to see why the Coalition are having so much trouble with their economic credibility.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/joe-seems-to-have-trouble-with-his-maths-20090216-899l.html
No 444
ShowsOn, Kevin Rudd successfully challenged Beazley when the ALP was ahead in the polls, so your point is moot.
The only reason why you’re suggesting Costello should challenge is because it would suit the ALP in casting the Libs as a disorganised rabble. You know that, I know that, and Costello knows it. Timing is critical in politics – now is not the right time.
Sure, but I think there is a difference, Beazley had been leader for nearly 7 years.
No, if he is their best bet at the next election, he should be leader now. If he isn’t the best option, he should be told to resign.
No 445
Of course, the jibe at lawyers conveniently ignores the fact that Australia’s longest serving Treasurer, Peter Costello, is a reputable lawyer.
And because, conceivably, given time, he could make himself even more unpopular as a leader than Nelson …
Nelson didn’t even bother to tell Barry O’Farrell that he was quitting:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/nelson-quits-seat-and-calls-on-liberals-to-renew-themselves-20090216-89dh.html
Rudd had WorkChoices and people fed up with Howard after 11 years.
What do the Liberals have? Rudd Labor continues to be immensely popular and has done so since late 2006 when Rudd took over. Rudd’s polling streak, Howard could only have dreamed of.
No 450
That article erroneously dates the Coalition’s election loss as December 2007.
“Of course, the jibe at lawyers conveniently ignores the fact that Australia’s longest serving Treasurer, Peter Costello, is a reputable lawyer.”
And people hate the arrogance and smirk. And it’s far harder in opposition.
Remember the exit polls at the election? Something like 57% don’t want him as future PM? The exit polls had the final result at 53/47, and it turned out to be 52.7/47.3.
You rusteds think that Costello will be the next PM. It will make his failure all the sweeter.
No 451
Bob, only one thing is for certain – such polling will inevitably decline for Rudd.
Turnbull will be hoping that that article by Kenneth Davidson doesn’t get picked up by too many other media outlets.
With their Economic credibility in free-fall now, if a good proportion of the electorate start to become more informed as per the contents of that article, then they are shot altogether.
http://business.theage.com.au/business/stimulus-an-investment-in-the-future-20090215-8849.html?page=-1
ABC1 is playing a great John Ford film The Lost Patrol at 3:16 AM.
No 453
Bob, people make such a big deal about the smirk. Your criticism is of the same lowly calibre as when you criticised Hockey due to his weight.
Of course. But Howard survived for 11 years on 50/50 polling, give or take a couple. Not quite 13 years either.
I don’t want Peter Costello to become Prime Minister.
Agree: 59
Disagree: 41
http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2007/11/24/Exit_polls_look_good_for_Labor
This is the poll that was off 0.3% on the 2pp result. And it is pretty much the only question untainted by a comparison of another potential Liberal leader. 59/41. Enjoy your false hope.
No 458
Yes but that was likely influenced by Howard’s decision not to commit to a full term, which was disastrous.
Yeah that was a piece of genius “Vote for me so I won’t be P.M. for a full term”
The members of Bennelong decided to give him the whole term off.
Am I there yet?
People had their choice as to whether they thought it would be a good idea to have Costello as PM at some point.
59% said no.
Depends where you’re going …
Scorpio
Check your email, thank you.
Someone mentioned earlier about a possible payback over Bishop not supporting Nelson. Looks like there was some truth to that.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/hockey-ascends-as-the-alsorans-lick-their-wounds-20090216-89as.html?page=-1
All the talk of the Libs about shining the spotlight on Labor and its failings is just wishful thinking. Unfortunately, the spotlight is firmly on them and their woes and incompetence. Why they ever thought they had “any” chance of regaining Government in 2010 I’ll never know.
They should have just kept their heads down and rebuilt so as to be able to gradually reposition themselves for a tilt in 2013 when they would have had a better chance as a united, competent, alternative. It’s too late now, they can only be perceived as badly damaged goods.
Scorpio
Check your email, thank you.
Okey dokey.
Costello will never be PM. As in all gambles, he at least is in sympathy with his brother. Playing LOTO game is a clear loser. Sitting on your winnings is Peter’s game.
crikeywhitey, you have certainly been having some fun while you had a break from PB. So glad to see you back on board. e-mail me anytime.
Boy, this will hurt. Peter Hartcher is telling a few home truths now too. Commentators like him would have done the Libs far more good by telling it like it is rather than trying to prop them up for the past 18 months.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/nelson-to-quit-as-libs-paint-themselves-into-a-corner-20090216-89dn.html
Did anyone else notice that Essential has omttied the word billion and is reporting that 72% of people supported tax breaks of $2.7 for small businesses? Even I think that’s a little on the low side.
Fun???
Oh, Scorpio!
Maybe I will have some now.
Bigpond is vanquished! And a glimmer of water may, I say may, appear in the shape of the Good Ship Xenophon!
But, heavy heart at the fires. I have been urging my Blackwood friends to do bunkers, cannot think of an option other than leave, and early.
scorpio…
But his numbers soon improved, and they kept improving. His initial polling results as leader were sky high, assumed to be a honeymoon.
But after two years the honeymoon rolls on.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/nelson-to-quit-as-libs-paint-themselves-into-a-corner-20090216-89dn.html
How many times had The Oz, Sky Noos, and other awful media outlets declared Rudd’s honeymoon to be over? 23534674326 times? I don’t seem to recall them saying it lately. Perhaps they’ve given up and realised that he’s just immensely popular and that it wasn’t a honeymoon. But they won’t say that.
bob1234,
Not a bad article is it. A more realistic appreciation of what was evident to the average Joe out on the street by commentators like Hartcher etc would have helped the Libs more than trying everything in the locker to knock Rudd off the perch.
Most sensible people, not ideologically blinded as many are in the MSM, would have woken up long ago and tried a different tact.
Now if the Murdoch media and the ABC had not wasted time as Opposition flag wavers, guide and marketing managers and instead focused on the hard realities within the LNP they may have been forced them to go some way in reforming themselves.
The LNP seem to be not much better off than after the election, in fact they are worse off. After the election it was a Rudd honeymoon as you would expect however the shenanigans and tactics of the LNP from that time have damaged their brand.
When Rudd was in the midst of a election honeymoon the LNP were making total idiots of themselves trying to score silly points against him when they should have been holding their fire and acting responsibly.
They are much worse off now because they have created a credibility gap. Whereas before people would have thought them a viable alternative government now they would have to wonder.
Shanahan and Sheridan have turned on the Liberals like mangy dogs in today’s Australian.
And the hilarious part is that all they had to do to do so was to tell it like it really is!
If they had done that from the beginning they wouldn’t be having to do it now.
Problems of mixing a Federal redistribution with an early election.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25065306-5006786,00.html
Which would make the Speaker’s job a little more fun I’d imagine…
Had to laugh at The Australian’s sidebar headline,
Wayne will be soiling his jockettes at the thought that Joe is coming after him.
Hartcher’s and Shanahan’s articlesm while superficially different, are still (to me) are written from a pro-Liberal point of view, regretful that so much time has been wasted. Hartcher, however, seems on the cusp of realising that solid policy work is the only way out of the morass for the Libs, while Shanahan continues to look for conjurer’s tricks and short cuts to get rid of the hated Rudd. He, and the loathesome van Onselen, tried the “shame” tactic a couple of days ago with the bushfire relief speech but it didn’t stick.
On van Onselen, can anyone tell me why he’s scores such a regular gig on ABC radio, even being interviewed by Adam spencer at 6.55am this morning re. Julie Bishop? There he was, the Associate Prof waxing all nostalgic about the politics of the 1980s: the man was about 8 years old then and I doubt very much whether he could have had any cogent memories of the period at all.
There has been comment on the media this morning about the whimpout of the govt doing anything on bank fees for ATM use. This deserves criticism; there is no defence for the fees. Our banks are already govt guaranteed and not insolvent so have no excuse for it. The fees should be limited to actual costs, which would be a few cents per transaction if that.
Didn’t the States cede control of the MDB in the Rudd Water deal? Looks like Brumby is going to end up in court again, this time on a constitutional law that he is restricting trade between states. Sounds a bit tenuous to me but the bottom line why are Wong and Rudd being dictated to by Brumby.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25065496-601,00.html
I think the Liberal supporters should be angry, very very angry. In a short 18 months, the current mob of Liberal FWs have lost the crown jewel, the brand, and the mystic of “The Superior Economic Manager”.
Listen to Joe Hockey this morning on ABC AM will tell you why. Joe didn’t have a chance from the beginning as he cannot escape from the shadow casts by Cossie and that Joe was the second choice. Poor Joe, he will be better off as the NSW State Premier.
Cant wait for the QT.
BB, because he is an “EXPERT” and the sad decline of ABC, especially the Sydney 702 morning radio show. The current host is appalling in her political Q&A. The slide started with Trigger Trioli.
Finns
It’s “mystique” not “mystic”. Tsk, tsk.
Steve @ #477
Thanks for the link. The last line of the article intrigued me…
“In NSW, the redistribution has the potential to reshape the political fortunes of a number of high-profile MPs in marginal seats, including Malcolm Turnbull in Wentworth and first-time Labor MPs Maxine McKew (Bennelong) and Belinda Neal (Robertson).”
How exactly…?
I can’t remember this before. Is blogging subject to suppression laws? The police aren’t stopping people talking to each other verbally about the arsonists address but they want to ban it on blogs. How on earth do you enforce that?
The honeymoon is over for Obama. Datsun? as they like to say in the land of the Rising Sun.
I have previously posted that his choice of the Secretary of Treasury Timothy Geithner has been a very poor one. This is not only bad news for the Obama Admin, but bad news for the World.
* He was part of the in-crowd of the Wall St vultures as the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York
* Before he was even confirmed he started badly by accusing the Chinese of exchange manupulation. It’s up to Hillary now to mend the fences with the Chinese.
* He failed to declare his extra incomes and pay the necessary taxes of $43K.
* He failed to impress at the recent G7.
An excellent article by Peter Hartcher:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/hope-isnt-about-skin-or-style–its-about-change-20090216-895r.html?page=-1
Houston, we got problems. The jivin’ rappin’ swingin’ highfivin’ are already a faded memory. Datsun?
Diog, still an exalted one?
Bushfire,as you well know, the ABC was heavily politicised by howard.PVO being given howards stamp of approval has elevated his worth way beyond its real value.
The tsar’s that rule the ABc are grade A howardista’s and consequently are the last line of defence in defending howards legacy. Any chance to slip the knife in to the Rudd gvt is seized with malice and spun adroitly to give the worst possible impression.
Finns
He’s sold out on the economy to the centrists. His stimpac will fail but there will be lots of tax cuts for the Repugs. Geithner looks like a Paulson clone to me. Krugman is eviscerating Obama and Geithner daily. It’s painful to watch.
Everyone knows this is the case and many officials have said so. I don’t see why the Treas Sec shouldn’t say so too. It’s done immense harm to the US and the global trading system.
It is a valid question on van Onselen. Apart from any leanings either way, he is only 32 (young for an academic) and Howard and the Liberals are the only topics he has written about. You wouldn’t say he appears to have a wide spread of knowledge or experience. There are many far more qualified political analysts at ANU for example.
Dio @ 485,
Don’t think this one will fly ….. Victorian police can’t make laws applicable to folks in other states and the net is national. Don’t see how they can police this one.
I saw a Sky report last night that said Sky was banned from showing this guys picture since they broadcast into Victoria, they were bound as local news would be in Melbourne. This was as it happened too, we had a newsbreak here during Underbelly last night and the local Channel 9 showed the guys picture as part of their update story just because they could.
dross with a droll attempt to summarise obi’s eco problems down to one guy.
what is most surprising is that guys like hartcher just change the names for the different countries and throw in some pithy fact or two.
Rejection is such a bitter pill to swallow
I must also agree with Hartcher on Geithner. I had hoped hemight do better without Paulson, but he hasn’t, which leads to teh conclusion he is part of the problem. The stimulus package outcome was poor but that was largely the Senate. But the bank bailout proposal is just bad and its his idea. It isn’t just Krugman; lots of people are criticising it. Even the IMF is underwhelmed.
Topic for today: Does the instant proliferation of names, faces, allegations and comment on the internet make it impossible for high-profile defendants like Brendan Sokaluk to get a fair trial? Why not just hang him now?
Adam
I’m reading a detective novel set in 1936 Berlin. They keep referring to the police as Cripo, Sipo and Orpo. Do you know what they’re referring to?
Incidentally, France has just found itself guilty during the Holocaust.
Just because van Onselen is young doesn’t mean he knows nothing about pre-Howard Liberal Party history. van Onselen pointed out alot of important issues last night on Lateline.
Costello was first choice
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,25066133-948,00.html
they deserve every harm, self inflicted no sympathy.
BTW
Obama has been in almost a month. wht’s he being doing all this time, as some would imply, pickin gotton
Not good enough in my opinion.
why hasnt he solved the worlds ills, solved the GFC and defeated poverty
and yet, he is still to turn lead into gold.
Poor performance for mine.
I mean almost a month, sheesh the moon goes thru a full cycle iin that time.
I can’t see how having his name, photo and what the allegations are would make it impossible, as the jury will see all those anyway. “Facts” and “evidence” and “commentary” are quite another matter though.
We’re being reported internationally as wanting to burn him at the stake, which is a bit unhelpful. Just about every country has named him and shown his photo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/4639352/Australian-web-vigilantes-call-for-alleged-arsonist-Brendan-Sokaluk-to-be-burned-at-the-stake.html
Cripo, Sipo and Orpo
Kriminalpolizei = Criminal Police
Sicherheitspolizei = Security Police
Ordungspolizei = Order Police
When the Nazis came to power in 1933, Germany had a tangle of national, state and local police forces. These were amalgamated into the three forces named, plus the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei, Secret State Police). The Kripo dealt with criminal matters, the Sipo with security matters (although these were soon taken over by the Gestapo) and the Orpo with mundane matters like traffic control. The SS’s security service, the SD (Sicherheitsdienst) also muscled in on police matters. Eventually Himmler made himself head of all the police, and appointed HSSPF (Hohere SS und Polizeifuhrer, Higher SS and Police Leaders) for each region of Germany.
Costello welcome back any time: Hockey
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/17/2493223.htm
Adam
Thanks very much. You are a legend. Incidentally, the book is called March Violets, after the term for late converters to Nazism. Nazi Party ID numbers from the early years were sold off to late converters so they could avoid being labelled a March Violet. It’s all very interesting.
I hadn’t heard of NSDAP membership numbers being trafficked, although I know there was a strong political and career value in having as low a membership number as possible, which made you an “alte kampfer” (old fighter) and qualified you for all sorts of benefits. Alte kampfers in the Wehrmacht and SS wore a “V” stripe on their sleeves to show their status. By the same token, after the war it became a liability to have joined the NSDAP before 1933, because that showed you were an ideological Nazi and not just a careerist.
Gasp! The SMH has misidentified Johnny Sheffield, who played Boy in the Tarzan movies alongside Johnny Weissmuller, as “Johnny Sutherland” (photo page 5). Can’t the media get anything right nowadays?
#495
If the jury members can’t put aside what they come across before the trial and just concentrate on the evidence then they aren’t fit to sit on any jury. Laywers and judges seem to support the jury system yet they are extraordinary sensitive about a jury’s capacity to arrive at a fair verdict in a high-profile, emotional case. Juries are apparently so hopeless that they’ll confuse a TV show with trial evidence (e.g., the ban on “Underbelly” in Victoria), yet they are supposedly still more competent than judges to determine the defendant’s guilt or innocence.
I might as well get this out the way before the Amigos get onto it. I’ll spin it as “Hillary offers Australia a sop to cover up the fact she is snubbing us”.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25062446-601,00.html
Diogenes,
Her boss seems to be strugling if even Stewart is starting to ridicule him.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=218354
Don’t be silly, Dio. Why should she come to Australia? This is not a royal tour – she’s a busy Secretary of State who is visiting countries which have serious issues with the US. Australia is not such a country, we are a loyal ally and all we need or can expect is a friendly wave in passing. That’s not “snub”, it’s a compliment.
How outrageous, a comedian using a political figure for satiric purposes.
Next you will be telling us comedians do parodies on people like hilary clinton
perish the thought
gus,
You’ve got that puppy love look on again.
GG
must be your avatar that’s doing it to me
Paul Bourgiono on Ten News just said that Costello won’t resign from parliament because he hates both of the front runners for his seat.
Adam
She should at least have visited Australia to thank Ron in person for all the advice and information he gave her campaign during the primaries.
That has got to be the lamest of lame excuses
Bree
if your still lurking, could you please help me to understand, What exactly is Costello’s appeal to Libs
Where is his brilliance?
How would his “experience” help out in the present circumstances?
The Australian article says:
Is this ever going to end? Until Cossie either gets out or steps up to the plate, this kind of speculation will eat away at the Libs.
#517
Whatever his actual reason, it will makes things much more interesting if Costello re-nominates for the seat. I can’t see how it wouldn’t lead to endless leadership speculation. No one will buy, “I’ve decided to continue to serve the people of Higgins” or whatever he’ll say.
It looks like North Korea has a welcome to Asia present for Hillary. The long-range missile they are reported to be about to deploy is capable of reaching California.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/16/clinton-in-tokyo-pledges-_n_167179.html
Well yes. I don’t think Costello cares though. He couldn’t give a rats if it destabilises the party (especially if Turnbull is leader), but doesn’t seem to realise/care that it just further reinforces the perception of him as gutless.
Well he hasn’t done that, he is nowhere to be seen. 1 glossy before Xmas for the whole year, where he attended 1 school and 2 cermonies. That’s it for the year!!! Pathetic!!
Who does he actually like in politics?
The usually reliable Andrew Landeryou has more on Higgins.
http://www.vexnews.com/
Sorry that was from Triton’s comment “I’ve decided to continue to serve the people of Higgins” or whatever he’ll say.
Turnbull was at pains yesterday to say that the Liberals are very “united”. We all know what that means …
Gusface, don’t you know? Costello was in a hammock during the mining/trade boom! Let’s get him back in to that hammock and hope it comes back. He deserves better than those awful opposition backbench hammocks.
GG I doubt I have ever read such a deluded diatribe as that of the “loyal Costello lieutenant”
Ah he’s our destiny… or as George McFly would say, “he’s our density”.
In line with Harcher referring to Iceland the Dutch are holding Kev up as an example of what their government should be doing instead of hesitating (like Malcolm)
This is their take on our situation.
http://www.scienceguide.nl/article.asp?articleid=106810
Vera, you always come up with great links and quotes. Thanks.
Hockey & Swan to appear on Q&A this Thursday:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25066315-661,00.html
Cuppa in between my bouts of CRAFT (cant remember a ‘efing thing) I have a rare moment of clarity now and then
Grog,
Read the comments sections attached to any articles by Bolt, Albrectson and Akerman. Surely proof that such “deluded” individuals exist in breeding quantities.
True – but they are generally not quoted as an anonymous source.
That was your first mistake…
Grog,
The last time Andrew quoted names, a few Liberal officials were dismissed. As I said, Landeryou is usually reliable. It is up to you how much credence you give the report.
I can’t wait to see Rudd defeat Turnbull in 2010 and Costello in 2013. Both are unelectable.
It doesn’t matter if Australia’s economy continues to go down the toilet. As long as our eventual recession is not as deep as other western countries, Rudd is safe as houses.
Diog,
X and the unknown quantity of water to be delivered.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/17/2493463.htm
#505 – Gee Diog, first it was the “enlightened one”, now it’s “a legend”, what’s next? Deitification: “Adam, you are my God”. The conga line of suck holes can only go that far.
#509 – just as well that i was out there doing some real stimulation of the economy.
And as long as the Liberals retain their “sit and wait” economic policies, they will be considered extremists, while spending money to support jobs will remain orthodox economics.
It’s like 1993 all over again, a slowing economy, and increased unemployment won’t stop Labor from winning while the Liberals retain their pro-unemployment economic policies.
A legend in my own lunchtime
Speaking of which…
Dio @ 520,
Grog @ 525,
Peter Costello
ShowsOn 542
“And as long as the Liberals retain their “sit and wait” economic policies, they will be considered extremists, while spending money to support jobs will remain orthodox economics.”
This is absolutely the Libs problem. Even the right wing economists people are trotting out in support of Thatcherism policies like Taylor on LL Monday night would say they should do tax cuts instead of a spending package. Nobody credible would say do nothing. Nobody credible would say wait and see; by then its too late.
Finns
Adam noted that Hillary not visiting Oz is a compliment and not a snub. I was going to ask him if Hillary will be paying Gordon Brown the same compliment when she visits Europe and give the UK a miss. But I’m playing nicely, as you have noted.
GG
Been there, commented on that earlier. Looks like Rudd and Wong are being led around by the nose by Brumby. I thought Rudd was meant to have control of the MDB.
Apologies if they have already been posted, but I think these articles are must reads.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/02/17/what-if/
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-if-hockey-is-julie-bishop-in-new.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ngh39UfxEQ&feature=related
This is also a must read
Dio, Australia is not the Asian equivalent of the UK. Australia is the Asian equivalent of maybe Norway – a nice friendly reliable ally with no issues.
I have no doubt some “insider” did say that to Landeryou; I just couldn’t believe how deluded it was.
I note that once he got past all the “second choice” questions today Joe Hockey didn’t bang on about $200 billion debt that our children and children’s children will have to pay off, as Turnbull has been for weeks. In the interviews I’ve heard he talked about debt in general but his main argument was that there’s too much spending and it’s badly targeted. Is there any chance that he’s avoiding the Turnbull line because it’s dishonest?
Norway!! Oh, that really hurts.
The Whitlam economic legagy in perspective.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25062495-27197,00.html
I thought this bu “Robert” was pretty good.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/17/2493148.htm
Please spare a thought for whichever anonymous staffer it was who cribbed the stuff from the Wall St Journal for Bishop’s speech. She never recovered from that. That staffer wrecked his/her boss’s career. That will not look good on his/her CV.
Steve 553
Thansk for that link – loved the article. Surprised to see that in the CM. I loved the bit where Williams pointed out that foreign debt was 2.6% of GDP under Whitlam and had reached 45% of GDP under Howard. as I have said before, Whitalm was unfairly maligned on economics; things here in 1975 were no worse than in most of the OECD.
Adam
Is there any chance that the staffer was a Labor plant who infiltrated Bishop’s office and sabotaged her? Does it get that dirty? Nixon would have done it.
Adam 555
Surely staffers know the rules on acknowledgement of sources though? Lifting it straight out of the WSJ without acknowledgement was neither honest nor clever. When I was a public servant you had to be absolutely correct on anything you put into notes for parliament. Why shoudl staffers get held to a lower standard?
Dio, I’m shocked – shocked! – that you think Labor would stoop to such a thing. No, the incident was a product of the culture of ruthless, cannibalistic dishonesty that now characterises the internal affairs of the Liberal Party.
Translate that into Latin, and it would be the motto of the Young Liberal Staffer Training School
Adam, unless you know something I don’t, I think we only have her word that the plagarising staffer actually exists.
I would want something a little more empirical than her assertion on that point.
What’s the alternative? Shadow Treasurer writes own speeches? That’s not very likely.
Speeches, no, but a chapter for a book on the Liberal party, yes I would have expected so.
LOL!
Exactly!
Ah, I thought it was a speech where she used the WSJ stuff. I suppose that’s possible, but even then they usually get someone to ghost it for them
The Australian online has a headline saying
What’s happened to Malcolm? Has there been a development that I’m not aware of?
Maybe they were referring to an upcoming pie-eating contest
Joe would cream him!
Sadly, yes
You guys are sad for attacking someone because of their weight, you’re as bad as school yard bully…
Diogs,
You should remember that old adage of never getting between a Premier and a bucket of water.
Cheers
Don’t cry Glen…
Glen @570 … or as good a Shakespeare. (Julius Caesar Act 1, scene 2, 190–195)
Costello when asked if he was offered the front bench spot ahead of Hockey:
“Well, I don’t know who’s putting that speculation out there, so you’d have to ask them,” he said. “I think the most important thing is to back Joe. “It’s a wonderful opportunity for Joe. It’s something he deserves and I rang him yesterday and congratulated him and offered him every help. Joe was my junior minister for quite some time.”
Gotta love that last sentence “Joe was my junior minister for quite some time.”
While Hockey was off trying to sell a policy that stank to high heaven no matter how it was packaged (workchoices) Costello lay back in the Treasurer’s hammock only rising to eat and use the bathroom yet he has the nerve to make such a condescending remark about someone who at least tries to encourage his side of politics.
Im not the bully here Dario…
WAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Glen
If you want a constructive drum to bang for the coalition, get them to raise that issue of the bank fees for ATMS. There is no excuse for it. They are just fleecing peopel to pay off debts brought about by their own stupidity. Given the monopoly nature of the service, and govt guarantees over bansk, it is neither fair, economcially efficient, or necessary.
“Nec pius nec callidus” is my guess of the Liberal staffers motto of “Neither honest nor clever”.
Glen,
I agree that focussing on Hockey’s weight is purile. I think William addressed it yesterday.
Lift yer game folks!
Also i think attacking Hockey on WC is purile too, im sure even ALP supporters should be able to come up with valid points where they disagree with Joe economically…
Glen, many Lib supporters paid Beazley out because of his weight.
Get over it.
“Also i think attacking Hockey on WC is purile too”
Hardly. He is Mr WorkChoices, and will get hammered for it.
bob Andrews is Mr WC…
bob then they are purile too…
Andrews, Hockey, Howard, and Costello are all Mr WorkChoices.
Call it purile, but the word doesn’t change anything. It continues to be an effective line.
hahahaha
what no toilet humour
GG, sorry. he’s too heavy, he aint my brother
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KtScrqtbc
Glen, I can see and agree with you on your point re Hockey’s weight but this is wishful thinking at its best. For heaven sake this man defended Workchoices through thick and thin. He’s not going to be let off that lightly. We’re talking policy, IR policy, not personal insults to do with weight. Policy is fair game.
Glen, the Liberals were bullies in government for 11+ years, and are still bullies in opposition. They deserve whatever they get back in return (and more).
Well I for one, am concerned about the Australian obesity epidemic. It has surpassed smoking as accounting for the most preventable deaths. And what does the opposition go and do? It puts a blimp on the pulpit, like it doesn’t matter, or condoning or ignoring this massive problem.
Nobody fears being bullied more than a bully. I think its because they don’t like it so much that makes them believe it will work as a tactic on others. That is why so many are Kiss-Up/Kick-Down types.
Arghhh it’s PUERILE PUERILE PUERILE, from the Latin puer, a boy.
And Glen and other neocons, I still make the point that I will always remember that on Friday 13th the government could have destroyed the libs for good, but chose to help the Australian people. This has all just become as simple as a super hero comic…we are the side of good and you are the side of evil!
Wonderful
I think Glen is a puercon
Anyone know what came out of this incident:
Sydney Morning Herald, 25 March 2007
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/no-sworn-testimony-from-hockey-over-tristar/2007/03/25/1174761275187.html
Peter Costello attacked Kim Beazley over his weight. He used to interject “sit down fat man” when Beazley stood to make points of order.
Oh, and he said that Beazley was conceived in the back of a Com-Car.
No, he said that about Crean.
Hockey was the chief cheerleader for WorkChoices and he will be nailed to that particular cross all the way to the election.
ShowsOn evidence???
… New saying: “as low as Costellow”
As hokey as Hockey.
The ComCar remark will be in Hansard because Crean took a point of order on it.
Q & A will be fun to watch on Thursday night now that Joe has decided to go on…
#604
That’s right, Glen. And Swan will be there to punch holes in the $200 billion “children’s children” nonsense if Joe dares to bring it up.
Swan will blather on about saving money on weekly shopping by shopping around what a genuis…
I think the economic situation has moved on a little from Grocery Watch, Glen. They’ve handballed that one over to Choice anyway.
Grocery watch was silly but that illustrated my earlier point: Swan has learnt a lot since then, and is a much tougher opponent now than he was in 2008. Bishop hadn’t, and with Hockey it remains to be seen.
hey there blimpy boy…. (Homer J Simpson)
I suppose Hockey will get asked the usual question about how much croissants cost in Cremorne.
So Glen, you want Labor to go easy on Hockey over Workchoices but want to club Swan for his comments on saving money on weekly shopping which has been handballed over to Choice. The difference is? I wonder also how many times you mentioned Medicare Gold in relation to Julia Gillard and her role within the Labor Party and government?
And why has the price of boston buns gone up so much?
And there is no mention in the NHHIC interim paper of medicare funded lap bn procedures
lap band
No 608
I agree. Swan is still a bumbling baffoon, but he has improved his parliamentary performances. If Hockey can at least remain coherent rather than mesmerised, he’ll have a chance to do well.
Peter Martin conjures up frightening imagery with his title.
However the killer phrase is, “Only 1 of the Coalition’s 21 frontbenchers has a degree in economics. This doesn’t mean that the rest are innumerate, but it does mean that they haven’t been drawn to the study of mathematical concepts”.
This is the party that sees economic credibility as its long suit. BTW, Hockey is not the one with economic qualifications.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-if-hockey-is-julie-bishop-in-new.html
True Gary but unlike Gillard, Hockey didnt write the legislation he was lumped with a poor policy in the 2005 form and had to try and amend it…Gillard’s rookie policy Medicare Gold did much to destroy the ALP’s credibility…
GP, Hockey is loud so Swan will look like a whimp compared to Joe…
Someone (Bird of Paradox, I think) asked yesterday if I had a link to the Sunday Times’ story on Jim McGinty’s possible retirement. I don’t, and I haven’t kept the print copy, but it was in there I swear. The West had a similar report on January 24. The current Fremantle Herald says “the Greens have called a war cabinet to talk tactics and anoint a candidate”, who is “all but certain” to be last year’s election candidate Adele Carles. The “tom-toms have been beating for weeks” about Peter Tagliaferri, but “more recently a senior union figure has emerged as a front-runner”, which has reportedly had Tagliaferri threatening to run as an independent. However, the Herald intimates that Carpenter might go as well, making Willagee available to said union figure. The Greens are also quoted saying McGinty should make it so a by-election could coincide with the daylight saving referendum on May 16. This could all add up to same-day neighbouring by-elections right in my own backyard.
GP,
“Baffoon” is a word that doesn’t exist but needed to be invented for a blog such as this.
Cheers.
Glen, the Liberals have been piling excrement on Labor for 17% interest rates, for how long now? 20 years or something? (while not mentioning that Howard presided over a 21.4% cash rate).
Grocery watch and Fuelwatch were two pieces of silly campaign populism that predictably sank without trace once Labor was in office. Now that the GFC has struck they are ancient history anyway – just like the Liberals’ equally silly populism about pensioners and dog food. There is only one economic issue now – the correct response to the GFC. If Labor’s stimpac works, Turnbull and Hockey will flounder hopelessly just as Bishop did. As I said before, the Libs’ problem is not the messenger, it’s the message. On the other hand, if the stimpac fails, T&H will get their chance to say “we told you so.”
My view is Coonan should have got infrastructure and Robb should have got Finance…
William for Willagee!
Knowing people love an argument, have one over the meaning of the word ‘contiguous’. Depending on the meaning, any early election could see the NSW Federal seats of Lowe and Sydney amalgamated. But it depends on whether the contiguous boundary between the two makes them neighbours, or whether the existence of Iron Cove makes them non-contguous.
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2009/02/redistributions.html
How many on the Labor front bench have a degree in economics?
No 620
No-one paid 21.4% because banks couldn’t charge more than 13.5% prior to deregulation.
They all have one in voodoo economics Dio…
Thanks Adam, but I’d prefer that my skeletons remain in the closet.
No 622
Coonan was a particularly good communications minister, I think she should be there rather than Finance.
And no one was able to get a sraight up loan. It was part home loan part personal, credit squeeze etc etc
No 627
Yes, too true.
On that basis Richmond and Eden-Monaro are contiguous, since they are separated only by water.
But I think you’ll find, Antony, that the official border of Lowe runs along the eastern side of Iron Cove, making it contiguous with Sydney and Grayndler.
Glen,
That was how George Bush senior described neo con economics and the Laffer curve in the 1980 election campaign.
Only on their ‘official’ home loan GP. They were rationed, you couldn’t usually borrow the whole amount to buy a house, so you nearly always had to have a second or third mortgage which would be at the higher rate. Cocktail loans they were known as. Classic example of why you don’t legislate prices for commodities, because you end up with the quantity changing to reflect the fixed price.
William for Willagee: put a Bludger in the House!
You can’t lose with that slogan
Greg Sheridan kicks Bishop while she’s down:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25065395-5013460,00.html
Exactly GP as I said it but Antony is much better at explaining
Not with Sydney it doesn’t. It runs along the eastern shore, then across Iron Cove Bridge, then up the western shore. Not that it matters. Little chance of an election this year anyway whatever the Australian says.
I think you’ll find that Emerson has a Ph.D. in economics from Harvard.
No 634
Of course, I’m not justifying the price ceilings. They were arcane and unncessary and held the economy back.
It was how he described REAGAN’s economic policy. “Neo-con” is not an economic policy term, it’s a foreign policy term. You’re thinking of “supply siders.”
Didn’t swan use to lecture in economics?
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/pics/electrts/Lowe.pdf
Lowe has a border with Sydney. The fact that it is over water is irrelevant. All of Sydney Harbor is divided up between the various divisions.
Andrew Charlton, ‘The Economic Myths of Peter Costello’, The Monthly, October 2007
http://www.themonthly.com.au/tm/node/676?gclid=CPGt1pnwnJECFQQbegodmyvUuQ
No 644
Cuppa, quoting the ALP mouthpiece, The Monthly, is about as useful as me quoting Quadrant.
Swan lectured in social policy, I think
Adam,
Puercon, Neocon. There seem to be more cons in economics than at a Greek wedding.
Julie will stay on as Deputy there really isnt anyone else for the job plus she holds a lot of votes from WA…
Glen, it’s more important to “speak softly and carry a big stick”.
If Hockey doesn’t know his stuff and can put what he does know over in a comprehensive manner, then Swan will just quietly pick him off and Hockey will end up looking like a bumbling, loud-mouth fool.
ANU wasn’t it?
May or may not be irrelevant on a whole range of different levels Adam. But I know the question has already conjured up legal advice, even if it would be unlikely to ever be required.
Emerson
Qualifications and Occupation before entering Federal Parliament
BEc(Hons), MEc (Syd), PhD (ANU).
Economic analyst, United Nations 1978-80.
Economic Adviser to the Minister for Resources and Energy and the Minister for Finance 1984-86.
Assistant Secretary, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet 1986.
Economic and Environmental Adviser to the Prime Minister, the Hon R.J.L. Hawke, MP 1986-90.
Director-General, Department of Environment (Qld) 1990-95.
Chief Executive Officer, South East Queensland Transit Authority 1995-96.
Director, Eco Managers 1996-98.
Chris Bowen also has an Economics degree IIRC
Craig emerson:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=83V
Chris Bowen:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=DZS
Swan
BA (Qld).
Lecturer, Queensland Institute of Technology 1976-77, 1981-82 and 1985-88.
Policy analyst, Office of Youth Affairs 1978.
Adviser to the Leader of the Opposition, the Hon. WG Hayden, MP 1978-80; Special Ministers of State, the Hon. MJ Young, MP and the Hon. KC Beazley, MP 1983; and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Hon. WG Hayden, MP 1984.
State Secretary, ALP (Qld) from 1991
Adviser 1996-98.
Hockey
BA, LLB (Syd).
Director of Policy to the Premier of New South Wales.
Banking and finance lawyer.
Didn’t Crean have an Economics degree also?
Geriatric Person,
Howard’s 21.4% interest rates is a documented fact. The Monthly quote is the the unvarnished reporting a fact. You’ve a problem with that?
Re 649,
On the topic of Hockey being loud, I think that he will be perhaps even more on the bad side of Jenkins as Treasurer than he has been in the Opposition Business spokesperson … For that matter, Pyne will so ingratiate himself with Jenkins as opposition business spokesman that he won’t even have time to warm up his seat on the Front Bench, he will be spending more time out in the hallway
Not quite C@658. There’s a slight apples and oranges problem. There was no benchmark rate prior to 1990 so your comparing a different environment in 1990 and 1980. The great mistake is to confuse nominal and real interest rates. Keating deserved to be shot at dawn if interest rates were 17.5% and inflation was 2%, but inflation was much higher than that.
Albo has a BEc too!
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=R36
And Macklin had a bachelor of Commerce, I’ll be damned…
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=PG6
Crean
Qualifications and Occupation before entering Federal Parliament
BEc, LLB (Monash).
Assistant General Secretary, Federated Storemen and Packers Union of Australia 1976-79; General Secretary 1979-85.
Vice-President, Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) 1981-83; Senior Vice-President 1983-85; President 1985-90.
Member, National Labour Consultative Council 1981-90.
Member, Economic Planning and Advisory Council 1984-90.
Member, International Labour Organisation Governing Body 1986-90.
Member, Qantas Board 1987-90.
Member, Australian Industry Development Corporation Board 1988-90.
Swan co-authored the first Australian academic article on ALP factions. He also made some reasonable arguments in the 1980s defending the 1915-57 Qld Lab govts against the attacks of the then archetypally trendy left Ross Fitzgerald.
Antony 651. Surely the AEC determines what the boundaries of Divisions are, and they have drawn the boundaries of the Sydney Divisions to include areas of water such as Port Jackson. The word “contiguous” in the Act can only mean “sharing a common boundary as determined by the AEC.”
And Crean did have a BEc as I thought
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/biography.asp?id=DT4
So that’s:
PhD Ec – Emerson
B Ec – Albanese, Bowen, Crean
B Comm – Macklin
I have a book he contributed to, he is credited as “Lecturer in Public Administration, QLD Institute of Technology”
It also says he was an advisor to Bill Hayden and Mick Young.
And Laurie fergurson, Chris Bowen, Albanese, Emerson, Anna burke has a masters in commerce….and that’s just up to the F’ s
Are you telling me 1 opposition member has studied economics..surely hat can’t be right!!!!
Abbot seems to be beating the Costello drum on PM Agenda
…….
Oh Glen the holes in that argument are numerous and wide. Hockey voted for that ligislation and proceded to try and sell it, so don’t give me that.
Workchoices destroyed a government, your government Glen. If that isn’t destroying a party’s credibility I don’t know what is.
Gillard didn’t write any Medicare Gold legislation.
That is one argument Adam. But I think my favourite law, the Acts Interpration Act would apply, particularly Section 15AB, and any court would be able to examine parliamentary debate and committee reports to determine what was meant by contiguous.
Conroy has a BEc too…
So the final ministry tally:
PhD Ec – Emerson
B Ec – Albanese, Bowen, Crean, Conroy
B Comm – Macklin
I wonder if Hockey will be on 730 tonight?
Is that the one on QLD Labor in the book Machine Politics?
Glen, how are you going to feel if Labor are still belting the Liberals around the head for SerfChoices in 20-odd years time … like you lot have done to Labor for “17% interest rates”?
Why Clive Hamilton is an absolute dunce:
http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/your-argument-filtering-falls-flat-when/
and Gary gray has BEc and Laurie ferguson dario
Sure go ahead if that’s the worst you’ve got go ahead but at least we tried to reform the country (we could have done it better with that policy ill admit) but it is better than putting us 96b in debat and having 17% interest rates and 13% unemployment…
And for William, cue Stevie Wonder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8vMmgeDiKU
Yeah, wasn’t including Parl Secs in that list
BEc doesn’t mean your an economist. I’ve got one and half a post-grad degree in econometrics and wouldn’t call myself an economist. I passed on working as an economist two decades ago because I was offerred a short term job working on an election coverage. I can always go back to economics I thought.
The last economist to serve as Treasurer was Les Bury and who remembers him?
Glen,
Only a flesh wound, eh!
So Labor has eight frontbenchers with economics degrees and the Libs have one and the Nats obviously have none. There’s an ad in that for the next election campaign.
Glen, the Liberals did it to cut wages and conditions, and to destroy unions (thus the ALP). What do you think employees’ income would have done to domestic demand, wage-earners being responsible for a large measure of consumer demand?
Ah, yes, I can see the 2029 Labor election ad now. “Don’t vote for the Liberals or they will cut your kids’ wages and conditions like they did with WorkChoices”.
Artie Fadden was a Country Party accountant and served as Treasurer for a decade. He used to always complain to Treasury because their tables didn’t add up. (They’re rounded to the nearest million sir!)
That’s right Dio, how can you be expected to coach the team if you have never played the game before
Sorry, Glen, please ignore my hastily- and errantly-composed 683. If I have time I will re-type it properly.
William, closets are for clothes, as we used to say in Gay Lib days. Whatever your skeletons, I’m sure the broad-minded folks of Willagee won’t mind.
Bill McMahon used to just make figures up and then get Treasury officials to correct Hansard later.
I’ll see your 8 economists and raise you 17 lawyers…
It is only fair Cuppa that one side harps on about the others failings especially since both sides do it.
So whereas Labor’s worry was Interest Rates and the Economy.
Ours will be IR…
Fairs Fair
Fingers Crossed Hockey is on 730…
Antony, with those qualifications you clearly should be Treasurer
Hmmmm, i am an MBA – Manager By Accident
Health, Environment, Social Justice, Education…
Adam, there was a very funny moment on Sydney radio yesterday. ABC radio host Richard Glover referred to some UK article saying that Prince Charles should travel to Australia and visit the fire scenes. Glover did a mock rant about this, statingthat Prince Charles should come out, which caused complete silence from his guests who didn’t understand what he was on about, before a bemused Tony Abbot responded with “Prince Charles should come out as what?”.
Dario it is sad that you think all centre-right people havent got an interest in Health, Education, Environment and Social Justice…
THE MEDIA finally notices that Costello didn’t make a single speech in parliament last year:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25067355-5013871,00.html
Didn’t he go to some private high school in Victoria for a year or two?
I hate to tell you this Glen but polls are showing that the Libs have lost their mantle as far as which party is better on the economy is concerned.
The “economics degree vs law degrees” ad could include footage of Barnaby Joyce asking questions during the Stimpac Senate hearing and Julie Bishop reading out the WSJ article.
But as Adam said earlier, Labor would never stoop to those tactics.
It’s not whether they have an interest in them or not…
Geelong Grammar
Timbertop?
Showson @ 697: Geelong Grammar. Hence the urgent need for a republic (one heart beat etc).
I think it was six months. Didn’t qualify him for Governor General when the palace inquired.
That was the campus of Geelong Grammar
Timbertops old chap
And one of his fellow classmates was one Jon”Sam” Newman of the AFL Footy Show – talk about chalk and cheese
Antony, is one seat added to QLD, and one seat taken from NSW the only change for the entire country?
Yeah, GP. I started to read that last night and ended up just skimming through the rest of it.
Time for him and others like him to hang up the old badge and melt quietly into oblivion. They are not only doing their cause no good, but are just doing positive damage to it.
Have we ever thought about increasing the HofRs?
90-100,000 per electorate (at the high end) is alot…
I can understand why it is hard for politicians to tell adults to supervise their children more, but I can’t understand why non-politicians can’t make that point.
The determination has been made by the Electoral Commissioner.
http://www.ag.gov.au/portal/govgazonline.nsf/74066D6681F83648CA257560000DA18F/$file/S%2028.htm
NSW down one, Queensland up one.
Frank,
Newman and Charles might be almer maters but I think Newman was long gone by 1966 when Charles turned up for his two term sojourn.
The problem is the nexus clause, once you increase the reps substantially, you’ve got to increase the senate too.
But it has happened, going from 125 in 1983 to 148 in 1984, with the Senate going from 64 to 76.
Now it is 150, because NT and ACT have 2 members each instead of 1.
True but 100,000 constituents is alot i dont know how they think they can represent them all…
ShowsOn couldnt you increase the number of Senators for each state from 12 to 14?
According to Sam Newman’s Wikipedia page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Newman
Other way around SO@714. The House is twice the Senate. You have to increase the Senate to increase the House. And it is an increase from 60 to 72 State senators. The Territory Senators aren’t counted in the nexus formula. That was why the House shrank from 127 to 124 in 1977 after a High Court ruling.
It’s never been a problem for your lot. They only represented the major campaign contributors of the people who voted for them.
The rest were left to fend for themselves.
No offence meant to you personally, Glen, but that “IS” the truth.
Scorpio i am being serious here…
100,000 per MP is too high
90,000 per MP is too high
even 80,000 per MP is too high
60,000-75,000 would be my limit of course you’d have to increase the house by a dozen seats or so…
It’s a bit of a dream to think an MP really does represent each of their constituents. Even in state electorates they cannot represent them all. Perhaps the only parliament that has MPs that truly can do this is in the NT.
Yes, but was he at Timbertop?
We have state and local government too though.
88 is quite a bit more than half. I don’t know if this could be done without also increasing the size of the House of Reps to near 175.
Oh, and then you’d get people annoyed that Tasmania gets even more senators.
You’d need constitutional change for that one Glen to avoid increasing the size of the Senate.
Ah! Didn’t think of that.
So in 1984, did Hawke want to increase the Senate or the House? Or both?
Except Tasmanians ShowsOn….and they prolly would still have 5 seats out of 175 but 14 Senators to make up for it….
Only a small % of constituents ever write to their local member and even fewer seek a meeting. Almost all contact with an MP is done through their office staff. Why would we even contemplate increasing the number of members?
Besides Glen, a bigger parliament means a bigger thrashing for your lot.
The Liberal Party should get Peter King or John Hewson to pre-select for Wentworth in 2010. The current member for Wentworth has destroyed the Coalition’s credibility on all fronts.
Show some faith in your leader Bree!
Bree, Peter King was dead wood and Hewson is a disgrace for losing in 1993 ensuring another 3 years of PJK!
Well, depends who you talk to. Labor wanted more House seats, as did the Nationals. Labor and the Nationals combined to put the bill through the Senate against the votes of the Liberals. It was all part of a package that got rid of the formula that weighted seats in favour of rural areas, introduced ticket voting. Some argued also that by increasing from 10 to 12 Senators per state, that 6 Senators per half-Senate election made it virtually impossible for an opposition to again control the Senate. Some were concerned that 6 would make it easier for minor parties to be elected, though others said it made it harder. (There are arguments both ways on that one.) It also made it harder for Governments to control the Senate, though Howard in 2004 proved it wasn’t impossible.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25065402-5013871,00.html
Oh dear, question time is going to be boring as hell if it is all on economic theory.
ShowsOn, nah it’s great. Let GP, Glen and Bree hate the entire Liberal Party sans Costello, then when he eventually takes the leadership and fails miserably against Rudd, they’ll all go in to retreat, curled up in a foetal position in the corner rocking back and forth.
So weren’t the Nats and Libs in a coalition at the time? Or did they all cross the floor on just that issue?
Woah, I can’t believe the Nats supported it!
The Nats would sell their mothers if it meant more seats in Parliament…lol!
The Nats supported it because it increased the absolute number of rural seats, even though they decreased in relative terms. It didn’t stop the subsequent decline in National support. The two parties were in Coalition in 1984, but on that bill they had different self-interest.
So are you hoping the Nats lose even more House of Reps seats at the next election so they either die out, or merge with the Liberals?
To put their hopelessness in context, there are more Greens than Nats in the Senate. There is the same number only if you include Scullion, who is really CLP.
ShowsOn you know my view about having a single Conservative Party…
If the Nats die i shall not shed a tear for them…
ShowsOn, it’s hard to go by the Senate, considering that all four Senate Nats got in through the Lib/Nat joint tickets of NSW and QLD. None of the Senate Nats got there on their own merits.
But would it be better if they formally merge? Or better if the Nats just die out, so the Liberals can finally run candidates everywhere?
Oh, and wouldn’t it still be strange with the QLD LNP, if all other states are still Liberals?
Ain’t that the truth!
ShowsOn the Nats wont merge with us…
ShowsOn i am assuming the State branches of the Nats wont give up, so we may still have them around but they’ll be eliminated from Federal Politics…
Swan article on factions was co-authored with Clem Lloyd: Australian Journal of Political Science 22, 1 1987. Swan also wrote a book Postcode on social policy which I haven’t read. I think I once heard that Swan also ‘contributed’ to Mick Young’s I Want to Work.
If the Libs and Nats merged then all that would happen is more Independent Country oriented candidates would run and win.
The gloroius conservative coalition is a myth.
Borderless Internet:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/World/Story/STIStory_339442.html
Happy for WB to delete this one if he sees fit.
So the myth is that the Nats are independent, when they actually aren’t (goodbye Tel$tra!)
Yes Craig Emerson studied at ANU. I would say that ANU is every bit as good for economics as Harvard (I didn’t study there; this is not personal bias). RSS at ANU is rated in the top five in the world for branches of Philosophy (based on Blackwell ranks).
Why are the Libs happy to let Peter Costello white ant their party? How many times in the past 5 years have his leadership ambitions been the “story”.
Joe Hockey has had all the wind taken out of his sails today – by Costello’s presence on the back bench.
Bizarre.
The Australian in their inimitable style have done another beauty of a poll. At http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22073824-5013404,00.html
Do you think Joe Hockey is the Coalition’s best person to take on Treasurer Wayne Swan? Yes or No?
So if you think that he’s the ‘best person’ because he’s a goose who will fail, what does that do to the polling?
Sydney Channel 10 news led with “and leadership tensions continue for the Federal Liberal Party”
Over on Channel 9 Laurie Oakes kept going with his story on Costello getting asked frist – apparently he was asked on Sunday (before Bishop jumped)
hockey has been beating his manly chest and sending out war cries—he wants Swan’s job.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-want-wayne-swans-job-hockey-20090217-89o0.html
Greensborough Growler
Posted Tuesday, February 17, 2009 at 3:51 pm | Permalink
GP, “Baffoon” is a word that doesn’t exist but needed to be invented for a blog such as this.”
yes GG , it existed ok with that intelectuals elitists Site for me to call Bush a baffoon regularly , so some only get so ‘pure’ about pretty english when its shot at non-repugs
BTW we know it exists , a replacement for cluelessest of th clueless
“So if you think that he’s the ‘best person’ because he’s a goose who will fail, what does that do to the polling?”
Funny, I was thinking the same thing .
If Joe Hockey is not careful, he might end up as the “Second Hand Joe”, ala Streisand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1JSv3B-cGA
He is terminal before he even gets started. Poor Joe.
Mr Abbott also spoke highly of Dr Nelson, saying history would say that Dr Nelson responded to the national apology to the stolen generation last year in a “statesman-like” manner.
“He has a lot to look back on with pride.”
http://www.theage.com.au/national/costello-front-bench-plans-feverish-gossip-abbott-20090217-89jx.html?page=2
What, like a 7% record low preferred PM and 37% two-party preferred figure, both record lows, that occurred after the apology?
Get your hand off it Abbott.
Country Independents are a myth, The Liberal Party holds dozens of rural seats more than any other party and the Independents are barely a factor in NSW and QLD…everywhere else is Blue country…
It’s all relative. In India, Lok Sabha constituencies have an average of about 700,000 voters. US House of Reps districts average about 300,000 voters. Japanese and Bangladeshi constituencies average over 200,000 voters – and in all those cases that’s only people who actually voted, not the potential electorate. In the US, where turnout is usually about 50%, districts probably overage well over 500,000 registered voters.
Tell that to Bob Katter.
He was also a dreadful education minister. If he’d been a bit patient and waited until the ALP found a seat for him, instead of storming off in a sulk when we wouldn’t give him Denison, he’d be a Cabinet minister now.
No 759
He was not a dreadful education minister. VSU is one of his outstanding achievements.
If Hockey wants Swan’s job then the first thing he needs to do is apply for ALP membership.
“VSU” was a petty piece of ideological revenge against the universities, motivated by juvenile hatred of “left-wing students,” and did enormous damage to Australian education. Like most of the Howard regime’s “achievements”, it now has to be reversed at great expense.
This is a Federal Government that continually acts on behalf of the people, not just business interests.
“Govt to fast-track new consumer protection laws”:
New laws to protect consumers from unfair contracts are being fast-tracked to be in place by 2010.
Consumer Affairs Minister Chris Bowen says the laws are designed to provide greater power to consumers and consumer groups to legally challenge unfair contracts terms.
The new laws apply to standard form contracts and are modelled on existing Victorian Consumer Affairs laws.
“This has been in place in Victoria for some years and the evidence is that it has been very successful,” Mr Bowen said.
“Consumers get quick remedy and importantly future consumers don’t have to put up with the terms at all.”
Mr Bowen says unfair terms include those which reduce the negotiating power of the consumer, limit legal recourse or allow suppliers to change prices without reference.
“We have contracts where the consumer isn’t able to cancel but the supplier is, or there are very heavy penalties for cancelling the contract,” he said.
“You get some contracts where the upfront price is fine but then the supplier is able to increase prices as they see fit.”
Originally the Federal Government had planned to apply the laws in 2011 but has moved it forward after a COAG agreement in October 2008.
Mr Bowen says regulators will make the case of whether fees or charges are unfair in a relevant tribunal.
“There are operators which come up for public scrutiny quite commonly,” he said.
Mr Bowen says the 2010 date has been set to allow the laws to pass through Parliament and to give suppliers a chance to remove unfair contracts terms themselves.
“The law as it is at the moment doesn’t provide protection for unfair contract terms,” he said.
“We’d be seeking business to look at the spirit of what we’re trying to do and get their houses in order before the first of January where possible.”
I wonder how the Libs will attack this initiative.
Plus VSU did not achieve its intended result – as noted by Adam. In fact it removed funds from “right wing students”.
Dud policy – dud outcome. Say it all really.
No 762
Rubbish. VSU has liberated students from compulsory subsidisation of unpopular and unnecessary services. It has also stopped nefarious transfers of student funds to political causes. It is also saving students up to $600 per year.
No 764
Funds for what and for whom? If students desire services, they will pay for them.
Uhlmann reporting joe’s elevation
priceless
GP
At best VSU was about use of student fees. What about education outcomes? or cost of courses? or staff/student ratios? or participation rates? Did Nelson achieve anything on those? He and his predecessor prattled on about uni ranking tables too. Did he achieve any improvement there?
“There will be no $100,000 university degrees. ”
Falls about laughing.
Sorry for accuracy.
“I can guarantee we’re not going to have $100,000 university degree courses.”
John Howard, interview with Neil Mitchell on Radio 3AW, 15 October 1999
What it did was kill all services.
Well that is something-con philosophy to the nth degree.
No 771
It didn’t kill all services. It simply killed obscure or duplicated services, and ceased political donations.
No 772
Why should I pay for services at university that I’ll never use? Why should I subsidise the political careers of professional students, whether left or right wing?
Things like dental, legal and child care are already available in the broader community and funded by the state and federal governments.
All work and no play make GP a dull boy.
GP
“Why should I pay for services at university that I’ll never use?” is the same as saying why should I pay tax.
You really should join the anarchists – you would feel at home.
Why should I pay taxes for things I’ll never use? Out of *social obligation* – not part of the neo-liberal vocabulary, I know.
No 777
Adam, I feel no social obligation to extremist student unions that waste student money on duplication of services and nefarious political causes. Student organisations are not governments and thus should not be treated as such.
No 776
University campuses have not become lawless cesspits since VSU. So I fail to understand your reference to anarchy.
I’ve never used, and never intend on using, intensive care services. Why should I pay? (They’re a luxury anyway.)
No 775
If I want to “play”, I’m happy to pay. No-one else should be subsidising my lifestyle choices at university.
Don’t you know Adam, there’s no such thing as society….
What, like reading the univeristy newspaper? Yeah big lifestyle choice that one.
I hope you will never personally use a prison, but you receive a benefit from it – it keeps criminals away so they can’t harm you.
Some public goods are useful to us in a broad sense, even if we don’t specifically use them.
Code for: keep out the riff raff
But you’re willing to let the tax payer pay for 75% of your degree!
No 784
Yes, but that argument is a perfectly legitimate refutation if I was arguing for the abolition of taxation or governments. I’m not arguing for that.
I’m arguing against compulsory acquisition of fees by student organisations which are not subject to any of the strict regulations or transparency and accountability requirements that apply to local, state and federal governments.
No 786
The taxpayer isn’t subsidising my degree. I’m paying for it.
So you are now arguing that governments should pay for child care and other services at unis so that students don’t have to. Because we know if the fees don’t come from students, the unis have to cut all their services.
“World shipping is still in manure, it is now in up to its neck, instead of its eye balls.” – Alan Kohler
Really? Truly Ruly – Fair Dinkum?
Are you paying for it out your own funds? Or are mater and pater helping out a teeny bit?
Just askin.
Obviously Social History is not part of your curricula.
Glad your logic dont extend to police etc
No 789
Not at all. The fact of the matter is that many of the services provided by student unions under CSU were already provided by local, state and federal governments. CSU simply duplicated government-funded services, regardless of whether you used them or not.
No 792
Gusface, student unions are not the fourth tier of government so your snide arguments are irrelevant.
ALL of it!? Including the lecture halls and tutorial rooms you sit in? And the library and computers you use?
Some of us weren’t fortunate enough to go to a uni in a capital city.
Now you’re moving the goalposts. Pointless arguing with you.
There is no way you are paying every cost associated with your degree. Pointless arguing with you.
No 797
Well you are free to make that judgement. If universities think the fees charged are inadequate, they can increase them. Oh wait….Rudd’s micromanagement of the tertiary sector means that universities have fewer avenues to raise funds.
No, quite relevant as you cant use ALL the infrastructure but only pay the costs you WANT.
Unless you are some toffee nose git with a born to rule mindset and no concept of obligation and the ’social contract”
GP @ 796:
Pot. Kettle.Black.
Youse know the drill.
Anyway the legislation the Rudd government is introducing isn’t re-introducing CSU, nor is it handing compulsorily-acquired funds over to student politicians, nor will it allow student funds to be syphoned off for external political campaigns. Read Ellis’s speech here:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr110209.pdf
No 799
Student unions don’t provide any infrastructure that can’t be provided by the private sector, the university itself or the various governments.
What they do provide is a constant stream of funding to political parties, the Labor party in particular, which is why there is a virulent aversion to weakening their grip over students.
Yeah, for example, all the computers unis have are donated by charities.
Are you saying your uni doesn’t have a club for hack Liberals!?
The bill specifically prohibits funds collected by the universities to provide services being used for electoral campaigning.
the clay pigeon society?
GP
That was my point – the whole logic for the VSU legislation was to stop “left-wing” student politics. It failed, these left-wing student pollies still have the same amount, if not more, funding.
While your mob is technically bankrupt.
GP:
I agree that moderate and conservative students should not be forced to fund left wing campaigns
Adam:
I’m surprised you’re for the student unions – they’ve been extreme left wing since the PLO campaigns of the 1970s and earlier – i thought you were a centrist
GP 802
I think this is the real reason for teh opposition – a few hundred thousands in political donations justifies penalising the institutions millions. Just nasty revenge politics.
Mary wade, kindly read the bill and Ellis’s speech at the link provided before making ill-informed comments.
I was never in favour of left wing or right wing political groups being funded, but why not just ban that sort of funding? Don’t use it as an exuse to rip millions out of the system.
the liberal party manifesto!
I must admit Gusfce, that while I don’t want to overgeneralise, an aweful lot of Liberal activists act liek they have a chip on their shoulder hanging over from their own uni days.
“Through the consultations some universities indicated
that they were forced to redirect funding out of
research and teaching budgets to support services and
amenities that would otherwise have been cut, while
others highlighted price hikes for parking, food and
child care.
This demonstrated that students were paying the
price for the removal of government support for services
and amenities on campus…”
That OK cause GP used his own funds… or did he ???
I used to hate paying compulsory student union fees for the reasons given by GP above. But the VSU went too far the other way. Kate Ellis has drafted a very reasonable compromise which is ideologically sound. That’s why she will be our first female PM when Rudd steps down at 70.
Socrates
#812 “liek they have a chip”
so just bcause you ar a greek philosph you get away with using (correct) dialecs , and i don’t
I agree with Dio – I was also against the student politics on my campus as an under grad but as I said, they buggered the whole system to settle one score.
Diogenes, i’d suspect she’d have to move seats first. I don’t think Labor would have a PM in a seat that was Liberal 1993-2004. Too risky.
Well Ron, when I can afford a web browser with a spell checker…
The best evidence that the new legislation is moderate is that NUS doesn’t like it any more than the ideologues of the Liberal Party do:
“The National Union of Students (NUS) says the fee would be a welcome winding back of the Howard government’s VSU reforms, but argues the legislation doesn’t guarantee student control of student services.
“We’d be very happy with the student services fee if there were guarantees in the legislation that support and representation was to be done by student organisations on campus,” NUS education officer Stefie Hinchy said.
Rudd’s seat was Liberal until he won it. Ellis will be safe in Adelaide for as long as she wants to run.
The best evidence I heard was on Triple J where they asked a whole lot of genuine students. They were almost unanimous in their mild praise of it. A couple of far right and far left wanted less or more, but their arguments were purely self-serving. I’d be happy to pay it now as it is.
And then he lost it and it became Liberal again. Then he won it again.
But are you talking about the nominal seat of Griffith or the collection of suburbs which now comprise the seat of Griffith? The boundaries of the seat have moved dramatically over the years.
Big call of the night!!
And yep Adam, I agree (with the Bill and with your views of Ellis’s safe seatness)
Apologies. I suppose Rudd didn’t lose it after Ben Humphries retired and bequeathed it to him because Rudd didn’t win it in 1996 at his first go. He won it at his second attempt.
If memory recalls, he was one of the few Labor sitting members to get a swing towards him in 2004.
SA is the only state never to have a PM. Even bloody Tasmania has had one. We’ve been waiting for the right person to come along for a long time. We’ve had lots of senior Libs (Downer, Minchin, Hill etc) but we don’t have much luck with Labor. Wong was a bit of a hope but I doubt she’ll leave the Senate. Kate Ellis is a natural.
So Dio, you’re not expecting Chris Pyne to step up to the plate?
But, it is the only state to have had Don Dunstan as premier
Hawke was born in S.A., but represented a Victorian seat.
Other senior Labor federal MPs from S.A. Mick Young, Blewett, Clyde Cameron.
SA Labor has been pretty successful after the Playmander, so I guess a lot of them stay there, rather than go federal where Labor has been less successful.
And Bob Hawke was born in Bordertown.
Pyne is very bright, sharp and a very hard worker. I’ve been listening to him recently and he sounds a bit less pompous, but he’ll never be electable as PM in Australia.
I don’t think he is a hard worker, if he was he would’ve managed to come up with a single idea of his own in the 16 years he has been an M.P.
And each week ex-seantor Chris Schacht gives him a lesson on 5AA
When i was a struggling mature age student with a family to support, i resented having to pay union fees from which i got very little benefit.
I believe there should be student services at each Uni, to cater for student needs.
What I objected to was going home at night after night past the student Union and seeing crates and crates of liquor stacked for the students, out of fees i had paid, while i went home to my family before a night of study.
I guess it was the abuse of the student fee i objected to.
Grog
Everyone was born in SA but they all left! We had Julie Bishop and Julia Gillard born here as well.
Dio. I’ll claim one of them as a croweater. The sandgropers can have the other.
Japan’s ‘drunk on cough syrup’ finance minister resigns:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25070109-23109,00.html
Gillard was born in Wales, she went to high school here.
Julia went to Unley High; Julie to St Peter’s Girls…
Unfortunately Bishop was 5 years older so they never got to meet in any intershcool debating comp
I doubt Kate Ellis will ever be PM…
So socrates , your only ‘excuse’ is not being able to “afford” , greek philos ar paid
lots says diog , join th union greek ‘Union’
Diogenes
Posted Tuesday, February 17, 2009 at 8:28 pm | Permalink
“I used to hate paying compulsory student union fees for the reasons given by GP above…”
But that was Mary WADE’s query legit query in #807 , and not sure new th Bill prevents that What it seems to do is stop financing electon campaigns & politcal Partys but not preventing using funds to push left or right ‘issues’ , could not see a clause making that prevetion
She’s from the Right, so she probably has a better chance than Gillard!
I seriously doubt she would even want the job.
True but she’s not a leader ShowsOn…one can see that very plainly…
Joel Fitzgibbon will prevent this nation ever having Gillard as PM thank god.
You keep wishin’ and hopin’
Brendan Nelson and Therese Rein also went to school in SA and left. There’s got to be a message in that somewhere.
There was a bit of talk that Mike Rann would move into Federal politics but he’s looking pretty old and grumpy now. I’m often surprised that popular state premiers don’t end up PM more often (or ever coz I can’t think of one). In the US, a popular Governor is a great bet for President.
I think Australian generally dislike politicians who think they can waltz into the top job. I’m surprised more don’t go from federal to state politics and go for Premier.
Yeah, she’s the same as Costello. Just a lot prettier.
Wasn’t Wayne Goss going to get a safe QLD seat in the 2001 election, but then it was found he had a brain tumor?
I can remember when the Beazley forces were white anting Crean, there were talks of Bob Carr making the switch.
things at coalitionville are getting murkier and murkier, now theres talk of “dirty deals” with Cossie, looks like some of their disruptions may be just starting.
http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/02/17/2494037.htm
At the same time, I think it is lame that some politicians are there 20+ years before becoming PM (Keating and Howard come to mind).
The Oz people figured out that Rudd was a goer pretty quickly, and made him PM in under 9 years.
Glen,
Gillard has acted as PM already for 2 months all up.
1 out of 50 of the voters wouldn’t even know who Fitzgibbon is.
Kate Ellis was born in Melbourne. Nice picture here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Ellis
I would say a majority of voters don’t know who Joel Fitzgibbon is.
Neither of whom actually wanted to wait that long!
Plus PJK was a young starter.
The Hawke route would be envied by many.
What is it with the Liberals, and especially Costello, never wanting a bit of blood on their hands!
There was also talk of Brian Burke being touted as a future ALP PM, until things went pear-shaped with WA Inc.
I remember that being said about kevin Rudd, on many occasions.
And grew up in country SA – Mannum in fact.
But in the US, all you have to do is nominate for Presidency and then you are in the race. A few more hoops to jump through for State Premiers…
What a lovely couple of paragraphs! Peace and good will towards all.
And if you lose, you’re still Gov.
Pretty impressive. I wonder what her 2PP and Primary will be after 2010.
A very good point. In fact, losing can enhance your Governorship considerably just through the profile it brings.
So am I. With the truly appalling state of many Labor and Liberal State Parties (think NSW Labor, SA Lib, Qld Lib, Vic Lib), why don’t they bring in someone from Federal Politics. Premier of a state would be a great job if they could turn things around. eg Downer or Pyne for SA, Brough for Qld look pretty attractive for their party.
It’s not that reasonable. While it purports to block political donations, it doesn’t prevent a student body using a third party proxy to donate funds to the Labor party. Ellis’ bill is CSU by another name.
I doubt it’ll change too much scorpio. It’s never going to be a seat like Port Adelaide
You say it is as if a few hundred thousand is pocket change. That is a significant amount of money to donate to a political party.
That one being seated beside the dispatch bow on the other side of the chamber.
No 865
Mal Brough should move to Sydney and run for Bradfield when Nelson retires.
Yep, and he wants it without an election, and if you please a guarantee that he will win the following election, oh and no one can ever challenge, plus he isn’t really up for the whole treating fellow MPs with any respect…
Geez, has there ever been any MP more over-rated?
Bradfield? Shades of Ted Theodore. Brough could be another Queenslander crucified by his NSW party’s internal divisions.
Stingy sods. I would have bought their miserable magazine if they has been successful.
What I can’t understand is why so many in the Liberal Party kow-tow to Costello as if he was some kind of demi-god.
“Oh, Peter can do whetever he wants.”
“Of course, Peter can have a front bench position any time.”
“It’s Peter’s decision, and Peter’s decision alone.”
Why don’t they kust come out and say it:
“Peter’s a bullying prima donna who wouldn’t have the guts to have a go if his life depended on it. I’m over him and his tantrums, his smirk and his ‘It’s all about me’ bull$hit.”
Yet amazingly, nobody utters a peep of criticism of him. Not even a whimper, unless it’s unattributed and totally off the record (usually to the loathesome, deluded Shanahan).
What has this guy got going for him that a gnat with small cojones doesn’t have?
No 872
Reasonable point, but Brough is a very good candidate and it was a pity that he lost his seat in 2007.
I love how the supposed 2 great hopes for the Libs are a guy who has been rejected by the party, and another who was rejected by his own constituents.
Yeah, let’s see if he can lose another safe seat in a different state! That would surely be a record.
What do people make of this from mumble.com.au?
Are our major parties really more partisan than say, Democrats and Republicans? They are of course far more disciplined (Labor members can’t cross the floor) but does that mean they are more partisan? I think our politicans are over all more MODERATE than U.S. politicians.
If you’re right I totally agree. The funds should be for services only, and not for politics. I thought the university oversaw the process and could stop that kind of thing happening.
No 874
BB, the party isn’t going to publicly behead him because it actually needs someone of his credibility right now.
Theodore was also a good candidate but destroyed by the viscious Labor Party factional wars of the 1920s. NSW Liberal politics isn’t that bad, especially now the factions have a whiff of victory at the next NSW election, but there would still have to be a lot of kissing the ring before an outsider like Brough was granted a safe seat like Bradfield.
No 876
Mal Brough was an excellent minister and had a good chance of becoming Liberal leader. His “rejection” was apart of a significant nationwide anti-government swing, not to do with his ability.
What. Not another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Theodore
You’re very kind Antony. Joe Hockey certainly didn’t feel too much love when his whole move back to NSW politics was mooted.
No 877
Proportional representation in the lower house would be a shambles. Do we really want unholy coalitions having to be created just to get anything done? For all the flaws of our system, it is one of the most stable democracies in the world.
So much for the “good local member” theory.
That would make Nathan Rees Jack Lang, a comparison which flatters Rees somewhat.
No 883
Why would Hockey move to banal state politics? Further, why would the NSW branch want to go through with it? It would undermine O’Farrell and cause more instability in a party that has been out of government for 14 years.
Mal Brough for Bradfield!!!!!!!!!!
Was that as bad as QLD Labor politics in the 60s and 70s?
They gave Bradfield to Nelson, who was not only a blow-in from Tasmania but a Labor rat as well. Brough would be much less of a stretch.
Theodore was our only corrupt Treasurer in political history…he is scum IMHO.
Is that the NSW Liberal’s election policy? Win government by waiting a really long time?
Antony, if he joined Hill Song and consorted with the Firey ones he might be a chance!
No 885
If people are sufficiently dissatisfied with the government, it won’t matter how good of a local member a politician has been if his constituents are determined to change the government.
Did he stack it using Dr’s wives?
How so?
Not as bad as Labor politics of the 1920s is the comparison. Communists taking over Trades Hall before being expelled by an Industrial Wing takeover. The battles to deal with the WWW. Jack Lang getting himself appointed Leader for life and sacking his cabinet. Lang taking all the cash out of the banks to stop the Federal government sequestering it.
Even in my own lifetime I still remember the pictures of Peter Baldwin’s face after a few brothers decided to set him right on a few points of inter-factional protocol in 1980. Liberal Party factions are wimps compared to that lot.
Adam, not twice in a row. And Brough had the Doctor’s Union in full support.
No 892
ShowsOn, stop being facetious. Part of the reason why the Libs have been out has been due to sheer incompetence and the perception that they are an absolute rabble. O’Farrell has done a lot of work to get the factions talking, getting branch-stacking prevention reforms through etc. Sure, he may be as charismatic as a wet blanket, but the current NSW Premier is the embodiment of idiocy and aloofness.
mmm, internet browsers have never heard of the Wobblies.
Wasn’t Brough a main member of that Govt?
As can be seen from Glen’s reaction, there are large numbers in the moderate wing of the Liberal Party who adore Brough. He certainly made an effort and was genuinely passionate in Indigenous Affairs, but I think the portfolio helped lose him his seat.
Unquestionably, the Liberals could do with him now on the front bench.
On the other hand, I heard that he was a boofhead who was hated by his advisors as he was incapable of taking advice.
But good members either hang on, or get a swing to them, like Rudd in 2004.
Good local members don’t suffer 10% swings, which was higher than the state average.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungana_Affair
“The Mungana Affair involved the selling of some mining properties in the Chillagoe-Mungana districts of northern Queensland, Australia to the Queensland government, at a grossly inflated price. In 1929 a Royal Commission was held into the affair and found that two prominent politicians: Ted Theodore Premier of Queensland (1919-1925) and William McCormack Premier of Queensland (1925-1929) each secretly held 25% ownership of the properties sold.”
Theodore was corrupt and one of the reasons Lyons left the ALP as they hated each other.
never fear, the Wik has:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobblies
Jack Waterford, The Canberra Times, 13 September 2008
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/costello-shadow-play-shows-need-to-go-behind-the-screen-of-words/1271607.aspx
Glen, I’m pretty sure he was aquitted.
Phillip Coorey and Mark Metherell, Sydney Morning Herald, 19 August 2008
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/nelsons-battle-plan-oppose-at-every-turn/2008/08/18/1218911572783.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
If the intervention was commenced 12 months, rather than 4 months, prior to the election, there would have been more time to judge him on his record and whether the intervention was successful or not. That Rudd is still continuing with the policy shows that the policy was sound.
No 907
I’m certainly sick of it, but I can’t blame him either.
Theodore was never charged with anything, so the assertion that he was corrupt was never tested in court.
Wasn’t a criminal case, was a civil case taken against him by the Queensland Government which it lost. However, he never gave evidence at the Royal Commission or in the Court Case. So found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Samantha Maiden, The Australian, 9 September 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24317502-601,00.html
Geez you throw around that adjective pretty easily at someone who had no disernable influence on your life.
Glen. There is a bit of a history of Politicians and mining in Qld. Old Jo and his front bench were partial to black gold to pick up a few quid on the side.
Besides, Theodore was never charged with anything and subsequent investigations seem to point to a set-up. This is all wiki has on it but it badly needs updating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungana_Affair
Currency Lad is instructive on the Costello issue, and pretty much argues what I argued last night:
http://thenewcurrencylad.blogspot.com/
Antony, I’ve had a conversation with the man who wrote the semi-biography of Joseph Lyons – ‘The Tame Tasmanian’ and from his research he told me Theodore was as crooked as a bent nail…
So it seems this may not have been the only occasion Theodore got himself into hot water he just was so close to it all with Mungana…
It doesn’t show that at all
No 917
Dario, you can worry about all the symbolic rubbish, but that doesn’t achieve the change that is required in aboriginal communities.
After political life, he has quite a successful career in business.
And a little something that many would not know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Theodore
And neither will the intervention
I’d love to know how successful or otherwise the intervention is but I just can’t find anything impartial about it. The voices of the indigenous population are all over the place on it. I get the sense that the political indigenous leaders are unhappy with if for philosophical reasons and the local indigenous leaders are happy for practical reasons. the whole thing is remaining a mystery to me. The reporting on it is terrible.
And I’ve heard the same things. Find me an old QLD AWU man from that period who wasn’t.
Scorpio Theodore never himself testified under oath…seems dodgy to me!
Scullin destroyed his Government by reappointing such an unsavoury character to be Treasurer after all the work Joe Lyons did when Scullin was overseas trying to stop the depression getting worse and then he went and dumped him…no wonder there was a split.
glen
according to curtin:
‘four men i’ll ever be grateful to in this war-macarthur,esington-lewis,Theodore and blamey’
be very careful who you try to tarnish.
Sounds like a political witchhunt than an unbiassed inquiry. The corrupt politicians were the Joh era Liberals and Nationals who were jailed (and those who should have been or died before they could be).
No 920
The intervention is ensuring that communities operate under the rule of law and children receive basic healthcare and schooling.
The “rights” and “victims” brigade have done nothing to improve the plight of aborigines except whinge at every stage of the way. Brough will be long remembered as the politician who started the necessary change process in aboriginal communities.
Joh didn’t get convicted either…
You actually believe things written on a blog that thinks the global financial crisis is a [wholly contrived fascist catastrophism that copycat left-of-centre governments are deploying to frighten their constituencies, suspend democratic processes and sustain their grip on power]
???
Sounds like a right wing nutcase to me.
Adam:
I accept your acidic correction
Do you think they will finally re-name Lowe this redistribution?
I support re-naming Cunningham to the Division of Wade as it contains Fairy Meadow where she lived and died.
Two very interesting articles that we all should take notice of….
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/camilla_cavendish/article5725106.ece
And the bushfires now what have they done?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/feb/13/carbonemissions-australia
I think the balance of probability is that Theodore was corrupt, but it is fair to say that it was never proved. If Glen thinks that makes him “scum”, I assume he would also apply that epithet to Bjelke-Petersen and Askin, against whom the evidence is much clearer. The only reason that Bjelke-Petersen didn’t go to jail for corruption was that Nationals managed to corrupt the jury! Askin was protected only by NSW’s defamation laws: the truth about his taking bribes from developers came out as soon as he died.
“Theodore was also a good candidate but destroyed by the viscious Labor Party factional wars of the 1920s. ”
he was also guily of corruption as well so whilst a keynesan (rightly) believer he had a past , and later became a Packer henchman for years….corruption conviction nand Packer combined ar not exactly pure ‘labor’ CVR’s
No 928
I don’t agree with everything he says, but he is one of the more lucid right-wing bloggers.
The standard Labor joke in NSW redistributions is to try and re-name a north shore seat Askin. They also try to get Londonderry re-named Derry.
You mean Aboriginal.
That gives professionalism a new meaning.
“but it is fair to say that it was never proved”
he was …..by Royal commission , don’t rely just on balanse of probabilities legal court games
Mary, I suppose they might rename it McMahon, since Bill McMahon is the only deceased PM who does not have a seat named after him. (Cook is now officialy named after Joe Cook as well as James Cook, I believe.)
Do you think the global financial crisis is a fascist conspiracy?
On the other hand, Lowe is the only federal electorate named after an albino, so renaming it might be seen as albinist.
never convicted,even tthough he asked the qld AG to charge him, if the royal commisiion had any evidence to indict him.
They didnt.
(cpd,vol125,pp3749-52]
Theodore was one of the ‘cogs’ of WW2 australia,along with essington-lewis they ensured supply of weapons and material.
Quiz question: Which member of the first federal parliament had been transported to Australia as a boy for theft? Clue: A federal electorate is named after his son.
Adam:
true – on the other hand, a Division of McMahon might be a positive for gays – and for people that have beards…
No 938
No. Currency Lad often uses rhetorical flourishes – and funny ones at that.
From marky’s article
Thankfully,
I don’t believe McMahon was gay.
Beards?
Dennis Shanahan, The Australian, 12 September 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24332950-7583,00.html
Sounds like an unstable character, hardly the make-up of a leader. Liberals must be desperate indeed to see him as a saviour. And imagine the country being led by a dithering, sulking, quaking coward. Disaster in slow motion!
The speciality was purchasing land at give-away prices that soon after was purchased by mining companies and with generous share packages thrown in.
Another good one was bauxite up on the cape. A number on the inside did extremely well with that little caper.
After that dried up, it was back to the old brown paper bags.
It has become more apparent in recent timed that Theodore was framed to some degree. I bet though, with a couple of hours of digging, I could come up with interesting information on the conservative side, both State & Federal that would not look at all flattering, Glen! Stones, glass houses etc.
Joh is in the same league as Theodore, just because he was right wing doesnt mean he wasnt bad news…
Adam, what’s your opinion as to McEwens private hatred for McMahon?
Adam:
I was joking about McMahon’s rumoured homosexuality – like you made the joke about the albino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)
One man’s rhetorical flourish is another’s raving lunacy I guess.
Also, his post “The Unevolved Cro-Magnon Men Of The Media” displays a complete lack of understanding of the Theory of Evolution. But that doesn’t stop him defending the Catholic churche’s nonsense (evolution was actually discovered in the 4th century by a theologian! LOL!).
What about for bearded gays?
Then there was Qld Labor Deputy Premier Tom ‘Fine Cut’ Foley. The nickname came from an incident in the Second World. To quote the ADB “In December 1946 a charge against Foley, concerning illicit tobacco discovered in his garage, was dismissed by a magistrate. Two men, one of them Foley’s brother-in-law, were found guilty of possession of the contraband. When Foley was acquitted, the government promptly abandoned its undertaking to establish a royal commission into the affair, but one lasting inheritance was his euphonious nickname ‘Fine Cut’ Foley.”
Black Jack begged to differ with you Adam…
Contemporary politics is lame compared to these guys!
I see, tres amusant.
But Robert Lowe WAS an albino.
“Here lies poor old Robert Lowe;
Where he’s gone to I don’t know;
If to the realms of peace and love,
Farewell to happiness above;
If, haply, to some lower level,
We can’t congratulate the devil.”
Why don’t you believe the rumours!?
McEwen’s antipathy for McMahon was mostly over policies. McMahon was a free trader and McEwen was of course an arch-protectionist. Also McEwen believed that McMahon was in the pay of Japanese exporting interests, which might have been true for all I know.
I think the stuff about McMahon being gay results (I’m ashamed to say) from deliberate rumour-mongering by Fred Daly and other Labor people, based on the fact that McMahon didn’t marry until he was in his 50s. There were similar rumours about Holt.
Surely there were some closeted gays in parliament during that era that were never revealed.
Glen
Posted Tuesday, February 17, 2009 at 10:32 pm | Permalink
“Joh is in the same league as Theodore, just because he was right wing doesnt mean he wasnt bad news…”
theodore WAS found specif guilty by a Royal Comission , a fact some people here blindly ignore…like unconvenient facts so try to ignore and pretend know history , more like rewitre it to uninformed here
Now Q’ld Govt did not then charge Theodore with an offense , and that occurs with many commission findings incl Fitzgeral with joh era…..reason usualy is chanses of proving on balanse of probabilities critera , but thats a legal deficiency in law mumbo jumbo reely to protect th fair dinkum innocent , but guilty often get thru under it as well incl Theodore and prob Joh
Ron, does the AWB Royal Commission ring a bell. I would have to think that on the balance of probabilities there, that a number of senior Libs should have had more to answer for and didn’t.
They really depend on who runs them and the terms of reference whether or not they “really” get to the “full” truth.
Disappointing if true, at least from my perspective: Harry Quick “is understood to be re-considering his decision to run for the Greens in the May Legislative Council election … due to family pressure to stay true to the Labor Party”.
AWB shares are now down to $1.15, the lowest ever.
Scorpio , was trying to think of anothr like situation ….yes youar 100% correct , same problam , clearly info went to FA as copys of written trail shows and so to Downeer , and there was those recoded meetings at time with AWB and FA & Downer , so again court bit of probablilites saved some Libs ,as it did Theodore and prob Joh from fitgerald All prob guilty for mine
I thought it was assumed he had quit cos he didn’t pay his fees?
Would that mean he rejoined, then quit again?
theodores royal commission was by a non-labor state gvt enquiring into the previous labor gvt
AWB royal commission was by a federal lib gvt enquiring into the federal lib gvt
Huge Difference.
Time to turn the Lateline Liberal Party spruiking show off.
Adam, your 941?????????
Excellent point raised by Pyne. Tony Jones is asking good questions as well!
Gusface, smack!!!!
Costello was wise not to fall into Turnbull’s trap.
Gusface
2 diffs , in theodore case he was found guilty by royal commission …and unless we wish to queston integrity of Judges etc feel should act guilty is guilyt Also if one looks at transactions with mining co involved he & his mate did won 25% each and directly coruptly benefitd Believe even on lay basis Thoedore should hav been found guluty and was
In AWB , unlike Thoedore cae , terms of ref i think from memory were resricted …think to non govt & non PS actions , so there is a diff seeing AWB could never make a finding against any Libs or PS …unless they were totaly careles which they re not
Ron
Do you think Curtin would have appointed Theodore as effectively quartermaster-general for Australia during WW2 if Curtin thought he was a crook?
ShowsOn@954. I can think of at least two, one who served for decades and was relatively well known for his sexuality in his later years. The other was never out, and was only outed after being sensationally murdered.
922
George Martens?
Pyne has punished Turnbull big time!
Do you honestly think Lateline is biased?
Both federal politicians? Blewett was one, don’t know the other one.
Before Adam does, I should also rase the CAMP candidate who ran against McMahon in Lowe at the 1972 election with the slogan “I’ve got my eye on Billy’s seat”. Everyone was so much more politically incorrect in those days.
And how will that help the Liberals win the next election?
Pyne has just said that he has a close friendship with Costello! Not good news for Turnbull!
Ah, my 941. William Henry Groom, first member for Darling Downs, was transported for theft in his youth. I assume this was not known during his political career. He was succeeded by his son Sir Littleton Groom, after whom Darling Downs was renamed in 1984.
Colin Hollis, ALP member for Macarthur then Throsby, came out in his retirement speech. Thanks a lot, Colin.
Bill Arthur, Liberal member for Barton 1966-69, was murdered by some youth he picked up in park in I think 1983.
Antony, what was the very first election that you were asked to cover? And was it doing what you do now? All the stats etc?
966 – Glad I missed it.
Tony Jones: “Peter Costello sitting on the back-bench like a ticking time bomb”
Neal Blewett now lives with a man, but maintains he was not gay during his time in politics, when he was married. We may recall he threatened to sue Bruce Shepherd over this when he was Health Minister.
Pyne was clean spoken! Well done!
Ron the state qld royal commission found he had a case to answer-agree
theodore (now fed treasure,in middle of budget,) says in fed parl charge me- see earlier post
state non libs AG declines to press charges-yet he initiated said royal commission
a legend related by curtin
theodore was playing bridge with sir john latham ( fed opp leader) , when latham said basically they had recieved the mungana report-latham the went into house called for theodore suspension, then the two resumed their bridge game.
How civilised eh what
Well, yet another day when, for the Liberal Party, it became all about Peter Costello. The footage of Costello on Melbourne streets being asked about the treasurer role and leadership highlighted the glee he feels when the spotlight is turned on him. He is a desperate attention seeker and would have loved watching Pyne’s interview tonight on Lateline – as it was all about him, no matter the direction Pyne tried to take. Costello does his party no favours. The Libs would be better off refusing him pre-selection for the next election.
Lateline has not changed much since Labor was elected, night after night when the Libs were in government it was Liberal MP’s and admittedly very little has changed. They may not be bias as it may be seen as tearing strips of them, but i am getting a bit of sick of this Turnbull and Costello leadership rumours as personally i find so trivial and bit like kindergarten stuff.