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	<title>Comments on: Morgan: 57-43</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on Earth</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:43:12 +1100</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: William Bowe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253096</link>
		<dc:creator>William Bowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253096</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/23/newspoll-56-44-9/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New thread&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/23/newspoll-56-44-9/" rel="nofollow">New thread</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Socrates</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253095</link>
		<dc:creator>Socrates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253095</guid>
		<description>Adam 529

I think you are rewriting history there unless by &quot;No one&quot;, you mean no-one in right wing ALP politics.  It has been a big scientific issue for 30 years, though not proven IMO at first.  The CSIRO was hosting conferences on it in the mid 80s at least.  I first read conference proceedings on it in 1988; at the time the hole in the Ozone layer was the biger threat, but that was taken care of by the Montreal protocol.  There were UN conferences since the late 80s.  It was a significant Australian political issue in the runup to Kyoto in the mid 90s, and that is over 10 years ago now.

I was a skeptic on it at first but was convinced after the Russian ice cores from Vostok in 1992 - that pretty much proved it.  After that it was a debate about how fast it would act and how much damage it woudl do, plus what we would do to respond.  I don&#039;t recall much denialism until after IPCC2 and the coal and oil industries realised the solution was a threat to them.  They did their dishonest work well, and obviously have mining unions in tow too now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam 529</p>
<p>I think you are rewriting history there unless by &#8220;No one&#8221;, you mean no-one in right wing ALP politics.  It has been a big scientific issue for 30 years, though not proven IMO at first.  The CSIRO was hosting conferences on it in the mid 80s at least.  I first read conference proceedings on it in 1988; at the time the hole in the Ozone layer was the biger threat, but that was taken care of by the Montreal protocol.  There were UN conferences since the late 80s.  It was a significant Australian political issue in the runup to Kyoto in the mid 90s, and that is over 10 years ago now.</p>
<p>I was a skeptic on it at first but was convinced after the Russian ice cores from Vostok in 1992 &#8211; that pretty much proved it.  After that it was a debate about how fast it would act and how much damage it woudl do, plus what we would do to respond.  I don&#8217;t recall much denialism until after IPCC2 and the coal and oil industries realised the solution was a threat to them.  They did their dishonest work well, and obviously have mining unions in tow too now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253093</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253093</guid>
		<description>Not too bad from Newspoll.  What a shame for Turnbull.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not too bad from Newspoll.  What a shame for Turnbull.</p>
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		<title>By: ShowsOn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253092</link>
		<dc:creator>ShowsOn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253092</guid>
		<description>Newspoll 56 / 44

Rudd now 45% ahead on prefered P.M. (65 - 20)
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25232508-601,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newspoll 56 / 44</p>
<p>Rudd now 45% ahead on prefered P.M. (65 &#8211; 20)<br />
<a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25232508-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25232508-601,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Harry "Snapper" Organs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253091</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry "Snapper" Organs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253091</guid>
		<description>AiC, I think it&#039;s taken some time for the science to actually capture what is happening in a system that&#039;s very difficult to map and track changes.  That our political systems have lagged grasping, understanding and comprehending how to respond to this, is hardly surprising.  While on one hand, I get why Rudd would try and get the current ETS proposal through, on the other, I get why people, including me, say do more, even if it is too late for this civilisation.  For whomever survives the message must be, you can&#039;t live beyond your means.  The Malcolm Fraser look alikes on Easter Island will thank us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AiC, I think it&#8217;s taken some time for the science to actually capture what is happening in a system that&#8217;s very difficult to map and track changes.  That our political systems have lagged grasping, understanding and comprehending how to respond to this, is hardly surprising.  While on one hand, I get why Rudd would try and get the current ETS proposal through, on the other, I get why people, including me, say do more, even if it is too late for this civilisation.  For whomever survives the message must be, you can&#8217;t live beyond your means.  The Malcolm Fraser look alikes on Easter Island will thank us.</p>
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		<title>By: ShowsOn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-12/#comment-253090</link>
		<dc:creator>ShowsOn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253090</guid>
		<description>Four QLD Ministers dumped:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25232538-29277,00.html
Any idea which factions these ministers are from?
[Police Minister Judy Spence, Transport Minister John Mickel, Communities Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr and Child Safety Minister Margaret  Keech are understood to have missed out on cabinet spots, after talks with the premier today.]
Is Bligh trying to give the Left more ministries?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Four QLD Ministers dumped:<br />
<a href="http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25232538-29277,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25232538-29277,00.html</a><br />
Any idea which factions these ministers are from?</p>
<blockquote><p>Police Minister Judy Spence, Transport Minister John Mickel, Communities Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr and Child Safety Minister Margaret  Keech are understood to have missed out on cabinet spots, after talks with the premier today.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is Bligh trying to give the Left more ministries?</p>
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		<title>By: zoomster</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-11/#comment-253089</link>
		<dc:creator>zoomster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253089</guid>
		<description>Adam! That&#039;s exactly my point - if Brown had made it a preference deal breaker in 2006, climate change would have been a front ranking issue. 
Remember at the time the media was full of pictures of BB taking Latham tree hugging. 
BB was aware of the issue at the time, it&#039;s just (to him) the trees were more important - he was being self indulgent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam! That&#8217;s exactly my point &#8211; if Brown had made it a preference deal breaker in 2006, climate change would have been a front ranking issue.<br />
Remember at the time the media was full of pictures of BB taking Latham tree hugging.<br />
BB was aware of the issue at the time, it&#8217;s just (to him) the trees were more important &#8211; he was being self indulgent.</p>
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		<title>By: ShowsOn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-11/#comment-253088</link>
		<dc:creator>ShowsOn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253088</guid>
		<description>[The fact that the theory was about didn’t make it a “front-rank issue”. ]
No, but it should&#039;ve been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The fact that the theory was about didn’t make it a “front-rank issue”. </p></blockquote>
<p>No, but it should&#8217;ve been.</p>
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		<title>By: zoomster</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-11/#comment-253087</link>
		<dc:creator>zoomster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253087</guid>
		<description>1. I was agitating within the Labor party re cc well before 2006 (and it gets a decent mention in Labor&#039;s Federal platform for that election)....and I don&#039;t claim to be as environmentally aware as BB.
2. BB had written books well before 2006 advocating action on climate change.

Yes, it&#039;s too late to stop climate change, and very likely (even with no carbon emissions from tomorrow onwards) that we&#039;ve bought into the 2 degree temperature rise and all its associated effects regardless. However, this is neither cause for despair or for inaction. CC will have benefits as well as problems, but we need to act now to ensure that we capitalise on the former and minimise the later. 
The big problem with the cc debate is that we&#039;re ignoring the need to adapt - people seem quite happy to talk about drastic cuts in their lifestyles if they can hold on to the idea that the climate will stabilise. Tell them it&#039;s about drastic changes to their lifestyle AND adaption to a new climate and they go all peculiar.
Not just my experience, one of my friends is a leading climatologist and she reports the same reaction - everyone&#039;s quite happy to talk about mitigation but start talking about the need to adapt and they become hostile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. I was agitating within the Labor party re cc well before 2006 (and it gets a decent mention in Labor&#8217;s Federal platform for that election)&#8230;.and I don&#8217;t claim to be as environmentally aware as BB.<br />
2. BB had written books well before 2006 advocating action on climate change.</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s too late to stop climate change, and very likely (even with no carbon emissions from tomorrow onwards) that we&#8217;ve bought into the 2 degree temperature rise and all its associated effects regardless. However, this is neither cause for despair or for inaction. CC will have benefits as well as problems, but we need to act now to ensure that we capitalise on the former and minimise the later.<br />
The big problem with the cc debate is that we&#8217;re ignoring the need to adapt &#8211; people seem quite happy to talk about drastic cuts in their lifestyles if they can hold on to the idea that the climate will stabilise. Tell them it&#8217;s about drastic changes to their lifestyle AND adaption to a new climate and they go all peculiar.<br />
Not just my experience, one of my friends is a leading climatologist and she reports the same reaction &#8211; everyone&#8217;s quite happy to talk about mitigation but start talking about the need to adapt and they become hostile.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry "Snapper" Organs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/03/20/morgan-57-43-2/comment-page-11/#comment-253086</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry "Snapper" Organs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=2964#comment-253086</guid>
		<description>Oz, I&#039;m feeling a bit gloomy about the human species ATM, so you know. I don&#039;t think any of us really know just where we&#039;re at in terms of the critical tipping points, but from all I&#039;ve been able to glean, the rapidly accelerating processes, the interaction between feedback loops, the long lasting nature of CO2 in the atmosphere, and governments trying to deal with the Global Financial Fiasco, which really, when you think about it is just another symptom of a species out of control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oz, I&#8217;m feeling a bit gloomy about the human species ATM, so you know. I don&#8217;t think any of us really know just where we&#8217;re at in terms of the critical tipping points, but from all I&#8217;ve been able to glean, the rapidly accelerating processes, the interaction between feedback loops, the long lasting nature of CO2 in the atmosphere, and governments trying to deal with the Global Financial Fiasco, which really, when you think about it is just another symptom of a species out of control.</p>
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