The Fairfax broadsheets have published an ACNielsen survey of 1400 voters showing federal Labor’s two-party lead at 58-42, up from 55-45 at the previous poll in November. Labor leads on the primary vote 47 per cent to 37 per cent. Also in the poll:
• Kevin Rudd’s approval rating is up four points to a stratospheric 74 per cent, the highest ever recorded by ACNielsen, while Malcolm Turnbull’s is down eight to 43 per cent. Their respective disapproval ratings are 22 per cent (steady) and 47 per cent (up 12 per cent).
• Rudd leads Turnbull as preferred prime minister 69 per cent to 24 per cent, his lead increasing seven points.
• Remarkably, 57 per cent say Kevin Rudd would be “justified in calling an early election to try and break the Senate impasse that has frustrated the passing of some legislation” (although they might think differently if they realised no double dissolution trigger existed, and that any election for the House of Representatives before the middle of next year would throw the two houses’ cycles out of sync).
• Peter Costello is favoured as Liberal leader by 47 per cent against 39 per cent for Turnbull, although Turnbull has closed the gap six points.
• 66 per cent say they oppose sending more troops to Afghanistan, a near identical result to last week’s Newspoll.
In other news:
• Newspoll has published its quarterly geographic and demographic breakdowns. Charts aplenty from Possum, here and here.
• The Victorian Liberals have advertised for federal election candidates in Kooyong, Corangamite and Deakin. Andrew Landeryou at VexNews says “long-time Liberal fundraiser and multi-millionaire Andrew Abercrombie is believed to be the Baillieu faction’s secret weapon candidate” to run in Kooyong against the Josh Frydenberg, who is backed by the Kroger camp and “Malcolm Turnbull’s numbers man”, Senator Michael Ronaldson.
• The Australian reports the Left faction Australian Manufacturing Workers Union and Right faction Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association have joined in a “Moscow-Berlin pact” to seek a “Senate-style system for Victorian upper house preselections”. This would deny rank-and-file members a vote, and circumvent the recent deal between the two unions’ intra-factional rivals. For their part, the latter group are threatening to back separate ballots for each position rather than proportional representation, which would allow them to secure a clean sweep. More from Andrew Landeryou.
• Steve Grant of the Fremantle Herald reports that former Premier Alan Carpenter has backed Fremantle mayor Peter Tagliaferri to replace Jim McGinty as Labor’s candidate in Fremantle. His presumed rival, LHMWU state secretary Dave Kelly, now says he is no longer interested. While still denying it publicly, it is almost universally anticipated that McGinty will shortly quit parliament so a by-election can be held in conjunction with the May 16 referendum on daylight saving. Last week the Herald reported that Keith McCorriston, Maritime Union of Australia official and local party branch president, had “also emerged as a contender”. It was also reported that WA Opinion Polls had been canvassing the electorate asking respondents about Tagliaferri and Greens candidate Adele Carles.
• Speaking of which, The West Australian reports daylight saving advocates have been peddling an “online poll of 610 voters conducted last week by independent research company Synovate”, showing 50.5 per cent planning to vote yes against 46.8 per cent for no. Despite the smaller sample of 400, a Westpoll survey published earlier in the month showing 57 per cent for no and 42 per cent for yes might be thought more credible.
• The Tasmanian Liberals have been keeping busy with preselections for the state election due next March. Mark Worley of the Sunday Tasmanian reports three new candidates have been chosen for Franklin: Vanessa Goodwin, a criminologist who narrowly failed to win a seat in 2006; Clarence City Council building inspector David Compton; and Huon Valley small business owner Jillian Law. Party leader Will Hodgman will be a fourth, while the fifth will be “left open until later in the year”.
• In Bass, sitting members Peter Gutwein and Sue Napier will be joined by Michael Ferguson, who gained the federal seat for the Liberals in 2004 and lost it in 2007, and David Fry, who filled a vacancy in 2000 but failed to win election in his own right in 2002 or 2006. As in Franklin, a fifth position has been left vacant for the time being.
• Sue Neales of the Mercury reports plans to preselect candidates in Denison have been deferred as the Liberals are “concerned by a lack of high-profile talent”. Michael Hodgman, whose parliamentary career goes back to 1966, is apparently set on another term despite being 70 years old and “suffering ill health”. From Michelle Paine of the Mercury (thanks to Peter Tucker of Tasmanian Politics for scanning this) comes a report that Marti Zucco, Hobart alderman and twice-unsuccessful independent upper house candidate, is also gearing up to nominate despite troubled relations with the party.
• Over the fence, Rebecca White, a 26-year-old electorate officer to federal Denison MP Duncan Kerr, has been confirmed as a starter for Labor in Lyons.
• Anna Bligh says she will discuss fixed terms, possibly of four years, with whoever ends up leading the Liberal National Party. Queensland is the only state which still has terms of three years.
• Graeme Orr writes on the impact of optional preferential voting at the Queensland election, and related matters, at Australian Policy Online.
• Gary Morgan takes aim at Newspoll and Galaxy over their under-estimation of Labor’s vote in Brisbane. To which they might justifiably reply: either shit or get off the pot. When Morgan starts publishing his own state polls, and when these prove more accurate than his rivals, then he can reasonably presume to start giving them advice.
UPDATE: Essential Research has Labor’s lead blowing out to 63-37 from 60-40 last week, and also shows Kevin Rudd’s approval rating at record levels: 21 per cent for “strongly approve”, his best result since this question was first asked last September. Malcolm Turnbull’s overall approval rating is down four points to 28 per cent and his disapproval up five to 48 per cent. In answer to George Megalogenis’s question on Insiders yesterday, 50 per cent say our troops should be withdrawn from Afghanistan, and 75 per cent say there should be more armed security at airports.
1,669 Comments
Vera I watched that Negus interview regarding Rudd. I knew Rudd was a bit of an expert on China but that guy was implying that he was more than just an expert, more like an expert’s expert. I gathered he taught the professors in those meetings over in the US a few things. He said that Obama will regularly seek Rudd’s views on whatever policies and actions they consider regarding China in the future.
I guess if they need the views of a merchant banker they could ask Turnbull.
With the Turnbull dog whistling Labor has a number of seats it can help hold / or get over the line at the next election.
All those places that are looking to a China recovery. Qld & WA. All those place with a significant China / Asian population. i.e. Bennelong, Darwin.
How many times have any of Turnbull’s approval, dissaproval or PPM ratings actually improved compared to a previous poll? Once? Twice?
It seems to me that the interesting things are:
1. This poll reverses the recent small drop in Labor polling. The Opposition had a small momentum which now seems to have been lost.
2. It seems to be showing that the Liberals are getting ever more tired of Costello’s roll as a party spoiler.
3. It suggests that Turnbull may do well to re-examine his oppose-at-all-costs approach.
4. It also suggests that Work Choices is still a live influence on voting patterns.
5. Right-wing MSM carping, whinging, posturing and nit-picking is being more or less totally ignored by the punters.
Thomas Paine, this was from that interview too
What with the poll as well The Merchant Banker will be spitting chips tomorrow,
I think it makes a difference the reason a person has gone into politics how they come over to the public, especially if they have not been career politicians.
I get the feeling that Turnbull entered politics because he wanted to have PM against his name and not for some ideal about making Australia a better place. Or if he did enter for the right reasons it has certainly been overwhelmed by his ego.
I don’t think many doubt that Rudd’s drive is to make Australia a better place even if we don’t agree with how he goes about it sometimes.
Have a read of Peter Harcher’s front page article in the SMH. Grudging credit given to Rudd. The headline to it is derisive and sardonic. “Hail King Rudd” or somethig equally juvenile. Nevertheless, the core message is, Rudd on the up and up, Turnbull in trouble.
But does anyone else think the last sentence of his article is a non sequitur? It is a reference to Rudd having recent contact with highly placed Chinese officials without informing the Australian public. Totally off topic, unless it is a directive that any Rudd article has to end in a negative. Incomprehensible.
On another point, I noticed that Harcher is obviously an avid reader of this blog. Certain turn of words, certain ideocyncracies of phraseology, have been borrowed from posts on this site, consciously or unconsciously. He’s not the only one either.
I recall Hartcher predicting Rudd would lose. As did many despite the continuous high polls he got. People have trouble dealing with factual data in its proper context when it conflicts with their bias.
This beat up over ‘China’ is ONLY getting air because it is a large non white country. People not like most of us. If it were any white country (anybody in Europe, USA, Canada etc) it would have died out quickly. But the media and the Opposition cannot resist using a bit of racism or xenophobia to sell papers , to attack the non Liberals and to hopefully wins some votes over.
This is like living in the middle of the Howard years. Luckily the Liberals are not in power or we could expect a raid on some hapless Chinese restaurant, arresting some hapless Chinese student, locking them up, and wheeling out Andrews again to give his usual spiel on keeping imprisoned bystanders imprisoned.
These people are well aware that Governments speak quietly to each at all levels all the time. Always have and always will.
Australia really needs a Huffington Post.
Shades of 1933. It seems already that the G20 meeting will be a total failure.
Germany’s economy contracted another 2% the other day making it -7% I thought? And they are against stimulus spending. So I guess they wait for higher unemployment, then start printing tons of money, figure out they need some huge stimulus spending and so start increasing the military industrial machine.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/G20/article5993184.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7970660.stm
Queensland’s enrolment projections were released last week. (NSW will presumably follow this week.)
I work out that the 19 seats in the south-east add up to 20.1 quotas. Which suggests that not only will the new seat be in the south east, but that neighbouring regional seats will be more drawn into the south-eastern orbit.
Hard to say where exactly where the new seat will be. Perhaps in South Brisbane/Gold Coast. Fadden is by far the most over quota seat and others like Forde, Oxley and Blair are also well over quota.
On the other hand, the seats around Sunshine Coast (Fairfax, Fisher, Longman) are also over quota.
Most of the inner Brisbane seats will be little changed.
Of the regional seats, Leichhardt is the most over quota. Crunching the numbers, it could be refashioned as a seat based purely on Cairns Regional Council. Wherever it sheds voters, they’ll have to go into Kennedy – which will probably also take some of Herbert’s surplus – requiring Kennedy to make compensating adjustments. Maranoa is well under quota, so a push northwards into Flynn with Flynn doing likewise into Kennedy might seem logical. But Flynn’s a pretty awkward looking seat as it is, and will be even more so if it’s forced to deviate away from the Capricorn Highway. Perhaps instead Maranoa could go around Flynn and into Mt Isa. (Farrer-like)
A more radical option might be to abolish Flynn and return Hinkler and Wide Bay to their old configurations. Then create two news seats, one either side of Brisbane.
Perhaps Turnbull should take a leaf out of Chris Lilley’s book?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcQxfBju99k&feature=related
From the previous thread.
TP, this shows how out of date these people are. If they think in 2009, they can just pull out that boogey-exenophobic-let-bash-China/Chinese doll from the bottom draw, they are sadly mistaken. Just as Howard discovered with his 1980s comment on the Asian immigration, people have long memory. Turnbull, Hockey and co. will discover likewise.
It’s time they grow up and have debate about the real issues, such as: What is the rightful place for China, India, Brazil and Indonesia in the new world order, socially, economically, environmentally, militarily and politically. The old order of the West is waning and they dont have the mortgage over the wisdom, if they ever had, anymore.
Just to echo Pres Lula’s comment again that: “This crisis was caused by the irrational behavior of white people with blue eyes, who before the crisis appeared to know everything and now demonstrate that they know nothing”.
In particular, the USA, it might still be the most powerful nation in the world, but it is time to show and learn some humility. The G20 will be a real test for Obama. If he can re-brand the USA, it will be a great achievement. Go Obi, go.
Oh God, it’s not hard to be humble, even though you are perfect in every way. What a great way to start the week.
The Liberals and much of the MSM again out of step with the general public: say it ain’t so!
Old Memsa interviewed on abc news radio full of bile so early in the day.
She sounded as if she had been sucking lemons all morning. Typical stuff, everthing Rudd is doing is wrong and allbull is right.
Please please mesma keep thinking exactly this.
Oh how the high n mightly (or so they thought) have fallen
In my SMH Hartcher’s article is headed “Election trigger? Go ahead, make his day”. The banner head is “The Rudd Supremacy” and there is a nice photo of The Kevin on the BBC. Nothing to complain about there.
It must be driving GP and the other liberal supporters to distraction all this,wonder how the mad right is reacting Bolt Blair and last but not least Ackerman
Also an excellent piece by Paul Sheehan on how the behaviour of Australian Muslims has produced so-called “Islamophobia.”
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/islamophobia-is-a-fabrication-20090329-9fjm.html
It’s been so long since one of their polls, was beginning to wonder if AC Nielsen were still in the polling biz. Good to see them back, especially with this “beautiful set of numbers”.
Interesting to see the percentage of people who think Mr Rudd would be justified in calling an early election. The opportunity to call a double dissolution has now all but passed; perhaps the ETS would be a suitable trigger. Somehow, though, I don’t think he would chance it on that issue. The GFC would be weighing heavily on people’s minds; pragmatically speaking they might punish him for such a move at this time of uncertainty.
I predict Hockey to take over a month after budget is delivered. He will try and build his profile by continually objecting to the budget, offer a mild alternative that will appeal to the suburbanite Howard battlers and go from there
Joe Hockey appeal to the Howard battlers? I think they will long remember the “appeal” of his WorkChoices rip-offs and forked-tongue spiels about workplace conditions.
Cuppa @ 21
Joe Hockey will only appeal to those of equal depth as his own – ie not very much.
He and the Libs are more and more trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
dave @ 15: I might be having a slow morning, but who’s Memsa?
and
Carry-over from last night’s thread, the FREE Australia Party (aka the Bikie’s Consorting Association) supports gay marriage. As well they should. Got to love all those hairy, boofy blokes . . .
funny enough Cuppa his appeal is a fat bloke with a big mouth – he is just like us/he is one of us, a good bloke I’ll vote for him. Turnbull doesn’t have any of that and it is also where Rudd will miss out- unless there is more swearing and visits to strip clubs but then he alienates the rest of the electorate
What’s their position on murdering people at airports?
The Nielsen is lovely: Turnbull hits negative approval for the first time, which is nice.
I’m also taken (sorry if previously noted) with something George M said on Insiders yesterday: in every Newspoll since late 2006, ALP + Greens PRIMARY vote has been above 50%. Every one.
Costello? Hockey? Mal Brough in shiny armour on a white charger with a seat parachute? Maybe all just a teensy bit irrelevant at this stage of the game?
Centaur, a few well-chosen and -directed grabs reminding the battlers of Hockey mouthing off about SerfChoices would surely neutralise much of his boofhead appeal.
A in C:
They only support it when out of range of security cameras.
Sorry, meant BK (#27).
I agree its a good poll result and seems to reflect that Turnbull’s recent nonsense about “reds under the bed” sin’t fooling anyone other than those who already vote for him.
Also refreshing to see that enough journalists are seeing through the proposed Emission Trading Scam to point out to people its a croc in hip-pocket terms.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/polluters-blank-cheque-20090329-9fk6.html?page=-1
Things must be getting really desperate in Liberal HQ. It must now be down to trying to hang on to what little constituency they have left. Forget about winning back ‘the battlers’ or those who might have entered a protest vote at the 2007 election. There must be a large number of people now supporting the government who have voted Liberal at the last election and the elections prior.
I’d like to know the demographics of the dwindling number of Liberal supporters. If any of them are anti racism or detest the politics of personal attacks then this section might be the next to move to Labor.
The Liberals need policies out there and they need to show a lot more respect (at least in public) for their opponents if they want to become relevant again. Rudd was always careful to refer to Howard as Mr Howard or PM and would never contemplated calling him a toxic anything.
Stockdale should make sure that the finger food available at the next party room meeting includes individual serves of humble pie.
Steve K:
That of course is the thing about the Lib’s ‘Yellow Peril (All New 09 Edition)’ . . . do they really think they can afford to write off most of the Australian-Asian community?
That’s a big lot of people. A lot of uni grads, a lot of small business owners. Without the Hansonista regression that the Libs are currently flirting with, they’re usually (and mostly) a natural conservative constituency.
Read that article sipping your “Magic Water” did you, AiC?
Rudd rivals Hawke as most popular PM – http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2529369.htm
A double edged sword. Not only do people love Rudd, but regardless of his popularity people hate Turnbull, and Costello is barely any better.
It’s a long road back to government for the coalition. I’m predicting they’ll be out on their ear longer than the last time they were in opposition.
It’s a pretty dumb move, especially on such a thin premise
Dario:
Absolutely (queue a ConservoBot to start nattering on about alleged ‘threats to national sovereignty’ and other furphies).
I think it’s indicative of their world view problem: the last 2 years have shown up a serious disconnect between the conservative base and contemporary Australia.
Or to put it another way: Malcom’s ‘Rampaging Asian Hordes’ may well work as a dog whistle, but he’s trying to rouse a really old, diabetic and blind dog that can barely get up from its basket . . .
Adam @16. Well, I did say I suspected he was a reader of this blog!
Socrates at 30,
Guy Pearse is a great contributor to the carbon debate, however, in the argument regarding the “blank cheques” he fails to mention that the cheque signatories are not us but other emission intensive industries. Sure the $ ultimately come from us consumers (which include big business consumers, BTW), but the point of the ETS is that it increases price so we don’t consume as much, therefore it costs us the same in $.
Basically,
the Government sets a limit on emissions.
The Government gets lots of $ for selling bits of paper (permits).
They give some permits and some of the $ to industries disproportionately affected.
Some companies buy permits elsewhere.
Companies which provide our electricity and import income don’t precipitously fall over.
Consumers don’t have black outs and/or massive energy price spikes from using (at this stage) very expensive low emission energy sources.
Global emissions go down.
Problem?
kat, I get the feeling its partly because the Govt has given the Libs such a small ‘target area’ to battle them on, that they seem to grab hold of any half-issue as soon as it pops up, without really thinking about it.
Fitzgibbon is the only minister who has been in any difficulty (sure Conroy, Wong and Garrett have had issues, but they have been more about policy than poor performance), so they have grabbed hold of it with both hands and demanded his sacking from the very start. Now they have gone for the anti-China angle, and because they are in Opposition they can’t exert the same accompanying fears through policy that they did when Howard had his xenophobia period.
Fulvio
This blog was certainly the first to predict the dog-whistling from the Libs about the Chinese.
Katbloke
It’s not hard to avoid security cameras in Australia’s airports as none of them work. How much footage was there of the Sydney Airport assualt? None, because our AFP is a joke. I heard that there was another bikie shooting today, the brother of one of the bikies assualted at the airport.
I know… that’s just beyond belief. People should lose their jobs over this… it’s totally unacceptable.
Seems the Brit press are really smarting after Obi’s piss poor gift to Brown the other week. This is hilarious!
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25261741-421,00.html
Good joke.
The hatred of the London Tory-tabloid press for all things Australian is well known. They’re just jealous. So let’s move on.
Did you read it?
Socrates, good article, but Guy Pearse is not a journalist.
Oz and Socrates
You should get the current Quarterly Essay which is by Pearse about “Quarry Vision”, ie Rudd and Howards blind devotion to the coal industry. It’s very, very good.
Yes.
In my opinion, an article which simply lists 3 or 4 incidents involving one religious group, some violent, that occurred over the past few weeks is not worth the paper it’s written on.
For some reason this means the “image” of Muslims has been dealt a “blow”. Yes, probably those like Paul Sheehan who view completely unrelated incidents as some kind of Muslim conspiracy now view the world’s 1 billion Muslims in less positive terms.
After the gang murders and the like we saw in Melbourne in a few years ago, I don’t recall Sheehan arguing that the “image of Christianity” had been dealt a blow. Probably because Christianity had nothing to do with what was going on. Just as Islam has nothing to do with the shooting of Darwiche or gang rapes. I think what Sheehan has a problem with is certain elements of the Australian Lebanese community but instead of openly attacking them he’s framing his points as a rebuttal against the idea of an irrational fear of Islam.
You give them too much credit. The major parties in general are addicted to coal. But I can feel for Labor especially, as coal workers typically vote Labor.
Yeah good article, Diogenes.
If I didn’t make myself clear before, this bit sums up by Sheehan is writing nonsense:
The only people like Alan Jones would view gang crime in the Western suburbs of Sydney as a “blow to the image of Muslims”. What the hell is the “image of Muslims”? Sheehan seems to think that Muslims = young Lebanese males in Bankstown and if they get up to no good than the apparently stupid Australian population acts as dumb as him and decides they are a reflection on all Muslims.
I was listening to Neil Mitchell for a laugh this morning. He is predicting Rudd will go to an early election later this year. To back up this prediction he spoke to Alison Carabine (Canberra journalist) who gave possible reasons for an early election. Mitchell, in concluding the interview, asked her to guess the date of this early election. Her reply was, “I still think it will be next year.” Oh dear.
You think Labor would look after them then, not bury its head in the sand and pretend that it’s sustainable to keep on mining and burning coal forever.
Voters think short term, which is why so does the government.
Islamophobia is a term invented and used by people who can’t accept criticism of Islam.
Similarly, the term christians use against people who critisise christianity is “Darwinist”.
He is the brother of the bloke who was beaten to death at Sydney airport
Another thing I like about Rudd is that when OS he bunks down at the ambassadors place or stays with mates, no flash thousands of $s a night hotels for him (unlike others I could mention)
Also no flash restaurants it seems
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/30/2529427.htm
Kit 38
Your analysis leaves out the compensation and transitional arrangements in the Rudd Emission Trading Scam which means that, since the compensation will come from tax revenue, we are all paying for it, just as Pearse said. He pointed out the source of payments was indirect, but he is correct in hsis definition of the end result: we pay and they receive compensation, while the only changes to emissions will be small and again paid for by us, through higher electricity charges.
The current ETS is so obviously loaded in big business’s favour at the expense of taxpayers (and workers who aren’t in the coal industry), that I sometimes have to remind myself it actually came from a Labor government.
AIC on that Sheehan article – you are kidding?
That piece was so full of contradiction it ended up arguing against it’s opening premise – and this was a call for a scholarly approach? What a joke – your Islamophobia has put the stupid blinkers on you again Adam
bob 1234
You raise a good point about what looking after coal workers realy means. I had assumed that the ETS was about putting coal industry jobs ahead of the rest of the community. But its worse than that. Its an attempt to deny reality and say “don’t worry you won’t have to change what you do”. It reminds me a lot of the pandering to the US car industry by politicians from Michigan adn other US car states. They let GM, Chrysler and Ford go on building SUVs right up to the point where the market has collapsed, and now they are stuck. If they had been forced to do some meaningful reform sooner their jobs might be more salvageable.
Rather than kid ourselves that clean coal shows any sign of working, lets plan for the gradual winding down of the coal and aluminium indsutry in Australia now, starting with brown coal in Victoria. Retraining and investment in replacement industries is the only long term solution.
And losing coal worker votes in the process. Voters don’t think long term unfortunately, and if voters don’t, government doesn’t.
Popular family. The parents must be doing it tough.
That’s true. But we should expect more from governments… that is that they should do what is in the national interest rather than in their own interests. Of course there needs to be an acknowledgement of political considerations but it’s only one part of the equation when it comes to assessing the merits of a policy. I still remain unconvinced as far as the CPRS goes.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25260078-33435,00.html
lol. I wish it was someone other than Milne.
Haven’t we already discussed this last week?
This is a new article, Swing Lowe.
With regards to action on climate change, it is a good example of where democracy is going to have a lot of trouble. See the book described at
http://www.dea.org.au/node/219
There are going to be a whole host of decisions which are going to adversely affect parts of the population more than others. And promises of compensation do not generally go down well to the voters who are to lose: eg, look at the Tasmanian timber workers in 2004.
Instead, even the biggest and most iconic of industries have to listen to the market when it turns against them. Eg, General Motors.
This is why it is better to get an ETS in place, even if some political mechanisms and big lobby groups need the oil of taxpayer funds to make the process smoother.
Then, as the targets tighten quickly over the next few decades it is the market which will tell those coal miners and their workers who are still there that it is time to move on. Hopefully the government of the day will be happy to retrain.
I can not see any realistic way that Australian democracy can work to make an explicit decision to close down coal mines in any other way.
kat
Mesma = Mesmerelda= julie bishop
she of the piercing stare
Crikey editorial has got the OO’s polls sized up well -
“Running the Newspoll numbers acts as a fortnightly reinforcement of the Australian’s sometimes dubious claim to agenda-setting credibility. These numbers, proprietory News Limited content that they are, are not above being subjected to the routine maniuplations that The Australian is liable to impose on any given set of facts that may or may not suit the overiding imperitive of its rampant ideological agenda.
The balance brought by Nielsen, an independent reality check, has always been an important facet of the Australian psephological discussion. But polls of this type are very expensive. It would be a pity if through let’s say, financial strtingency, Fairfax was no longer able to provide this valuable voice. Without wanting to push the boat too far from the shore, it would do the health of our democracy no favors.”
Let’s hope Fairfax has enough in the kitty to keep on with the Nielsen polls.
True – but isn’t this Milne recycling his article from last week? Or was it only Landeryou suggesting the leak came from the NSW right?
But aren’t Newspoll and Nielsen saying basically the same thing? The Government has more public support now than at the last election by about 4%. Kevin Rudd’s overwhelming popularity hasn’t really changed much since December, 2006.
I don’t understand how Neilsen can be an “independent reality check” when it has basically just reinforced what Newspoll keeps saying each fortnight.
Heaven forbid that a government should take into account their political survival, afterall it would only mean allowing a party of climate change sceptics and total deniers to run the show. No problem there.
I don’t think Milne or Landeryou had an article on the topic last week.
And remember, the Liberal carbon trading policy at the last election was to give ALL export intensive industries 100% free permits. At least the Government scheme gives them either 90% or 60% free permits at the start, with that rate decreasing automatically by 1.3% per year, and with the possibility that free permits will be completely revoked if other countries include similar industries in their schemes.
I can’t understand how ANYONE sees ‘100% free permits indefinitely’ as a better system than what the Government has proposed.
I don’t see why you’re framing the argument in terms of the Labor’s broken ETS or the Liberals broken ETS.
Oh, that’s right, it’s better to have no ETS than one that comes up short of what is required at the moment. Better to do nothing than something. It’s our way or no way at all. I think I get the picture.
What countries at the moment are ‘doing what is needed’?
Gary
Let’s see what Obama etc come up with at the meeting at the end of April. We’ll know the lie of the land better then.
re #51
c’mon Rudd needs at least a year and a half to win over those rusted on lib supporters!
Does Oz want a repeat of 2004 with the CFMEU swinging their support behind Turnbull, or Heaven Forbid Costello ?
This online poll is always very ugly. It’s obviously highly biased but quite funny all the same. I wonder what the real poll is.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25262908-5006301,00.html
Showson @ 70, I think Crikey’s point was more about the OO’s bizarre interpretations of the Newspoll figures than about the figures themselves.
Conroy’s internet censorship feeds in very nicely with the meme of Comrade Rudd turning us into a province of China, according to my friends from the Right.
But their argument is blunted somewhat when it is pointed out that Alston was pushing EXACTLY the same thing when Howie was in Govt
Frank
How come we never heard much about Alston’s version? Was it floated and shot down or was the technology not ready?
Sorry a bit late but Socrates at 57.
You are right in the sense that if we charge for permits and don’t compensate then that money will go into consolidated revenue – so indirectly taxpayers are losing. But the ETS is and should be revenue neutral.
It is pro business, I agree, but without them on board we will never reduce emissions. yes we need to reduce our emission drastically, but killing the current energy sector in the process would be counterproductive – we are not ready.
Remember a well-functioning global ETS will slowly make coal and emission intensive industries unviable, whatever the political colour of governments. It locks in, simply via a great business case, low emissions.
It also allows for the transfer of low emission technologies to the developing world without the need for government directive or pro-active (and usually weak) global treaties.
So, let’s not fret about the compensation, let’s fret about the real issue. At Copenhagen the world has to commit to a strong target. And this first means creating public support for an ETS in Australia. That in turn will allow the government to offer the world 15%, and if we really push even more.
But if we don’t compensate the polluters now, they will either shut down or leave Australia. Or, even more realistically, they will never permit the government to reduce emissions at all. I can assure you that without a business sensitive emission reduction strategy in Australia, the full force of the coal, oil and manufacturing industries will be marshalled against any emission reductions.
If Australia can prove that an accord can be reached between government and business to reduce emissions significantly (albeit steadily) then there is hope. Without it …
Basically it didn’t eventuate due to the same conclusions being made now during the trials.
https://www.fitug.de/news/newsticker/old/1999/newsticker210499222043.html
Frank
I notice that Alston used the “either you support this legislation or you are a paedophile supporter” argument. It will be interesting to see if Conroy throws that one back in the Liberal’s faces if they threaten to block it.
Isn’t this dangerously shaky ground?
…..
From today’s Crikey. I might just add that shameful headline on Skynews yesterday: “Spy Link Down Played”. Spy link? what spy link. Even today, or as now, Skynews has been trumpeting: “Does China have too much influence in Australia?”. Julie Bishop is being interviewed on Skynews right now. She is basically calling Rudd as the Manchurian’s candidate. This is our Shadow FM? God help us.
Oh another thing, they dont even know how to pronounce her name properly. I have heard from Lu, Lew, Lo, Bu
It was the same with former WA Labor Minister John D’Orazio being referred to as “The Godfather” and that ALL Italo-Australians have mafia links etc This was especially prevalent when he was caught by the CCC inadvertently conversing with the now jailed Panel Beater Pasquale Mimniti who had suggested he contact a disgraced former Italo-Australian Police Officer, also jailed to get D’Orazio’s traffic fine withdrawn. Of Course D’Orazio didn’t follow this advice and was subsequently cleared.
But you do get my drift
Finns
The OO is hammering the Yellow Peril as hard as they can. They have a poll “Is the Government too sympathetic towards China?” with 61% of 2500 saying yes. They also have an op-ed feature called “Labor’s China love-in”. I won’t even bother to link it, it would stink up the joint.
Oh dear. When asked on PM Agenda whether she’d call Kevin Rudd a Manchurian candidate Julie Bishop said she wouldn’t be the first to call him that.
I’m waiting for prominent Perth Lawyer and Socialite Patti Chong to put in her 2 cents worth
Isn’t Julie Bishop doing a “comprehensive review” of Liberal policies? The Libs need to get their primary vote higher than Labor. They can only do it with policies.
The hammock dwellers look like being in opposition for a very long time.
Yeah, didn’t Turnbull do it already? Validation from your own leader… what a defence
There are 450,000 Australians with Chinese background. Given that many would be soft Liberal supporters, the Liberals would need a lot of dog-whistling votes to make up for the votes they will lose in the Chinese community. I think they’ve stuffed up yet again.
And I wonder how many Chinese Australians vote in her electorate of Curtin ?
Or are indeed donors ?
Talk about biting the hand that feeds.
That’s lawyer-lite, Frank
Diog, the one that really disappointed me has been Malcolm Turnbull. i have always thought that he would be beyond this kind of politiking. Being a businessman/merchant banker etc that has had extensive business contacts in Asia. But then, i am the stupid one as he is just another politician. and that comment by Julie Bishop is beyond belief.
Finns
I googled “Kevin Rudd” and “Manchurian Candidate”. There were 1790 hits.
hoping this poll puts an end to the drivel about fitzgibbon. to hear the liberal party, which brought us, amongst other things, children overboard, AWB, WMDs, Haneef, Hicks etc etc to talk about a minister being sacking for not declaring 2002 and 2005 trips is hysterical.
and can someone tell mesmeralda that the polls have been like this since the end of 2006, so the stimulus has nothing to do with it
meanwhile, how long will turnbull last…and who’s next?? hockey???
Diogenes @ 90,
“The OO is hammering the Yellow Peril as hard as they can”.
You reckon the owner’s missus would get a better run. Is this all a Rupert domestic that has got out of contrrol?
This is the first I can find. Brandis is such a “nice” person.
Andrew @ 100, doesn’t matter who is next, they are just shuffling deck chairs
GG
Great point. I haven’t read Murdoch in China but I think they turned their noses up at him. Perhaps he has stopped trying to break into China but somehow I doubt it.
Murdoch’s China dream shattered
http://business.smh.com.au/business/murdochs-china-dream-shattered-20080125-1o77.html
Just watched Channel 10 News!
People interviewed think Rudd is doing a good job, is a statesman, represents Australia in the international community. One woman mentioned the stimulus package/bonus payments.
Turnball surely won’t last much longer, but will Smirky step up to the plate?
REPORTER: You called the Prime Minister of Australia the Manchurian Candidate.
HAMMOCK DWELLER: Yes I did.
REPORTER: Are you implying that the PM is a brainwashed assasin, who kills people on behalf of the communist party?
HAMMOCK DWELLER: No, its what George said. He’s so clever with lines – remember the rode… oops lets not go there, Goodnight.
Diog, this is the really hilarious bit of the yellow peril bash by the Libs. The large majority of the 450K you quoted are actually right wingers and ardent supporters of the Libs. They were mainly “refugees”, directly or indirectly, of the mainland regime in beijing. they dont like the Beijing regime, but love its money, but they will NOT and NEVER stand for China to weaken and humiliated again.
When Hanson came on and howie didn’t do a thing, the Chinese Libs went out and formed the Unity Party and had one of its member elected in the NSW Upper House. another prominent Unity member was the lawyer and articulate Jason Lee who is now living and working in Beijing.
GG, you mean THAT Chinese born wife of Rupert.
If the Liberals keep up with this rubbish, they can kiss goodbye their chances of regaining Bennelong!
Has anyone heard anything about the Ergas Tax review?
Or was it all to hard?
Finns,
I just substitute Murdoch whenever this racist rubbish (Manchurian Candidate, Yellow Peril) appears. e.g. substiute Murdoch for Labor in Diogs 90.
Much more entertaining and probably closer to the truth.
Latest Essential Research Poll. Rudd 71% popularity, 23% (?) disapprove.. Turnbull well and truly in negative territory. Something like 28% approve and 45% (?) disapprove.
I noticed Joe Hockey had a soft profile in one of the glossy weekend mags.
I wonder who’s next on the Liberal tumbrill?
Gary Bruce, Nelson was turfed with disapproval ratings of 44%
On election night wasn’t there a comment from a Lib about Bennelong along the lines of “those effin Chinese”? The bad losers are still bitter I reckon
Mesmeralda isn’t happy unless she has something about which to display her feigned indignation.
As for her leader he is speaking more and more in the annoying tone of “I’m talking down at you”.
They must be slow learners.
I think Nelson thought stuff it, I’m rooted, Malcolm wants the job so I will bring on a spill. It was more a political suicide rather than being turfed.
Nelson chose the time of his demise, Turnbull will not have this luxury.
From Possum. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/
Malcolm must be crying in his beer, most people would kill for 2pp of 63/37 come election time
……
didn’t I see something earlier today with more speculation on early elections?
…..
Poss – Yellow Peril
“Unless the female population of Australia transformed overnight in secret to become a rampaging mass of Margaret Thatcher clones, this latest political tactic will be counterproductive. Polling suggests that women voters not only see through political games more than men, but are more likely to revolt against such games”
————–
With Turnbull, Hockey and Bishop, no wonder the women hate them. One sits on his high horse and looks down at the peasants, one pulls on his forelock and can be bought by any leader of the opposition – slut, the eyes – freak -ee, plus she plagiarizes and i’m pretty sure isn’t able to relate to the average aussie woman.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/03/30/yellow-peril/comment-page-1/#comment-12523
Hockey’s gotta be next – his Sunrise persona will fool some for a couple days.
Turnbull has no one else to blame but himself – he challenged far too early – all this could have been suffered by Nelson.
But he has little tactical nous.
It’s not going to happen. No trigger exists for a DD and having an early ‘House only’ election would result in there either needing to be an additional early election to keep the House/Senate cycles in synch or a Senate only election.
63/37 is hugely impossible at the the next election, but it puts the frighteners up Liberal backbenchers on small margins.
It will dawn on them that the “one term” Rudd Govt. is not going to happen and that they are in for a long period of opposition. Turnbull will be blamed.
Grog, The Australian banged the leadership speculation drum while Nelson was leader – whose gonna be leader? Now their doing the same thing to Turnbull.
I would think that the Liberals wouldn’t want anymore favours done for them by The Australian. Me – they can keep up the bad work
I’m with you ltep.
Won’t go early, and will win going away.
ltep,
Is that a “please” don’t let it happen?
However, agree with your analysis.
When Hawke peaked at 75% popularity in April 1984, they held an election later that year that Labor only just won.
It’s nice to be popular. But, even better to be in Government.
And Dogma Shanahan is not doing them any favours with dopey
headlines.
fools the lot of them.
First SA, NSW yesterday and Qld today.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25263704-5006301,00.html
Can’t see Rudd making the mistake after the WA and Qld examples
Again, I don’t see why I have to support either Labor ETS’ or nothing. I’m not a parliamentarian, I’m not in any kind of position to vote for or against any legislation. I don’t have to take sides and defend one position to the death as you’re doing.
Ergas had an opinion piece in The Australia today pretty much just bagging every Labor policy he could get his hands on.
Most interesting thing from Essential – 50% reckon we should get out of Afghanistan.
The Govt has not made any attempt to get a DD trigger. Letting legislation lapse rather than reintroducing it.
I think the Govt is hoping the Financial Swindle will be improving in 2010 and they will be seen as the better economic managers. Unemployment is their only problem.
Henry Ergas,
Guess if he is partisan or an unbiased academic.
http://ergasreview.com.au/
It’s messy, but I think I have just about sorted it all out, based on consensus or majority comments on this blog.
It is OK to be
(1) rationally OO-ophobic
(2) rationally Turnbullophobic
(3) rationally GlobalWarmingophobic
(4) rationally badgangmemberophobic
(5) rationally Boltophobic
(6) rationally WorkChoiceophobic
(7) rationally RuddsdudfivepercentETSophobic.
It is not OK to be:
(1) irrationally Islamophobic
(2) irrationally sinophobic
(3) irrationally USophobic
(4) rationally sportophobic.
Boerwar
You missed conroyophobic or filterophobic.
Labor suffers from China syndrome
-isn’t it the Libs who are going into meltdown… and whose poll figures are sinking toward the centre of the earth?
eg my missus.
This should be in the not OK column.
Ooooh apparently Rudd asked to be moved from sitting next to the Chinese ambassador to the UK.
Cue the Opposition: Rudd hates China.
Mrs ru on Turnbull – why do they give him airtime he’s a waste of space.
And Cue The Doors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFGnIshz8E
Boerwar,
This is alright if you moderate your phobia enough to keep William happy and don’t go into the n-th detail on the cricket scores as they are available on cric info and William isn’t interested in channeling cric info
…..
I know Vera is for the Bunnies, everyone knows I’m for North Melbourne, etc. etc.
It always helps heaps if you can bring the sports around in some fashion back to politics as in MT is in more trouble atm than Terry Wallace
Well Belinda Cornes, wife of former Adelaide Crows Graeme was a major discussion point during the last federal election
Frank, great song. not too sure if the missus knows anything about the Doors. although she’s shown me few doors.
I’m rationally Islamophobic, partly as a subset of being rationally religiophobic, and partly as a result of the fact that Islam says I should be killed.
Lenin’s article at Wikipedia has deteriorated since Adam left – just in the Red Terror section, the communists have to mention that all historians quoted are “anti-communist” or “Lenin critics”
143 [wife of former Adelaide Crows Graeme was a major discussion point during the last federal election]
What on earth would possess someone to name their son Adelaide Crows Graeme?
Bit you didn’t mention that on SBS last night though
Though I think you discussed Consorting 
…Unless they were the father.
(Apologies to the Comedy Company)
Forgot to add the word Coach after Adelaide Crows
The Liberal Party attack using ‘being too close to China’ as its foundation can’t have too many upsides and has a lot of potential pit falls.
I get it that they are trying to dog whistle on China on the usual premise looking different, having a different culture, talking a different language and so on. Basically the Chinese are not at all like us, so they are not good, and are probably dangerous.
But it will be hard to buy and even harder to stick. We have been doing a booming business with China for a decade, we rely on them for that extra bit of prosperity and lots of jobs. China came out here and saw Howard and Co and were welcomed. Everybody is hoping China can save the world’s bacon and so on and so forth. We have lots of Chinese students, 457 visa people, tourists and lots of Asian looking people wandering around who could be mistaken for Chinese.
Like Monty Python says, ‘I like Chinese’. Well, I don’t find the people running around with guns and pushing religion. In fact they are real good ‘capitalist pigs’.
There is also now a bit of a power and economic vacuum. The USA is reeling, so is Europe, they have problems of all sorts. China seems to be the only stable country around the place at the moment which wins it some credibility and authority.
The other argument if that China is trying to buy the farm, then the Govt blocked the OZ minerals takeover. But it is a bit over the heads of most of the population anyway.
However if you are aiming for some recovery in the short term it is China on your mind.
So the dog whistling won’t be that effective because it doesn’t reinforce any negative stereotype and, if it does have any effect it is most surely to be short term.
I agree that what the Liberals think they might gain from this they will lose in the longer term as Chinese and Asian Australians get turned off by the implied racism.
The tactic may well backfire quite badly. If the USA continues to suffer and is slow to recover then people’s hopes in China are going to increase and they will be hoping the Govt can get the little bit extra out of them, job wise.
AND further to that, as China takes its place in the world as a legitimate economic, military and intellectual power it will be Rudd Labor that the people will more closely associate as being their friends and, the Libs as being a bit anti China.
Who of course had as a guest Bob Hawke who appeared in one of the Con The Fruiterer Sketches
The 7.30 Report had a story on an Albury company going broke, people rushing to centrelink, people losing their homes, except Kerry said an update, a chinese company has bought the company saving 100 jobs.
It’s interesting that Malcolm et al. keep banging on with their negativity, carping, dog whistling, bagging of all things Labor, and particularly that upstart Rudd making a name for himself and Australia on the world stage, and Malcolm won’t comment on the polls, and just keeps doing the same thing over and over and over. Makes you think Aristotle is right, that just doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome, means you’re crazy. Either that, or they do not know what else to do, and that’s equally plausible.
The Manchurian candidate stuff from Mesmerelda made me laugh. She thinks that garbage is going to wash with the public saying how much they like Rudd? It’s grounds for concluding that despite her having a tertiary level qualification, she’s actually stupid. Really stupid.
When did Bishop say Manchurian Candidate?
Frank, I have long ago forgotten whatever it was I said in that interview, but my recollection is that I wasn’t asked my views on Islam.
Whig, that’s par for the course at Wikipedia, which is why I left. I’m thinking of retrieving the original versions of all my Wikipedia articles and putting them at my website, as a sort of Wikipedia-in-exile.
Now here’s an obvious reason why news editors would be unhappy with the Rudd government after the love affair with Howard. From the SMH:
Billy Wentworth tried running the “Manchurian candidate” line against Whitlam in 1972, and it didn’t cut any ice then either.
hey Frank, it’s Nicole Cornes.
Boerwar back at 134, there’s a few renegades around.
Grog, earlier on in this thread, someone, can’t recall who, referred to Mesmerelda saying this of Rudd, and saying she wasn’t the first to do so.
Adam:
Sounds good – by the time the communists have finished, Lenin won’t be a mass murderer and criminal against humanity but instead a nice old man with a beard!
Mea Culpa, I got her confused with Belinda Neale
I think you’re all making a big deal out of the china thing and forgetting who started all this which was Fitzgibbon…
I wish the Libs would come up with some policies it has been 18 months since we lost and we have no new policies?
Grog, Bishop said it on this afternoon Skynews Agenda.
I wonder if Ms Bishop has read Richard Condon’s book? I doubt it.
It was around the time that the Gallop Labor Govt in WA severely curtailed Govt ads in The West that the paper went feral against them.
Ok folks, car companies of the future won’t look the same as they have in the past …. the Motor City is in deep doo-doo …..
Glen, I feel your pain
The problem for the Libs is policies that the majority of members support.
Most of the public wont understand what she is on about. And if they are asked her she probably might not be able to explain.
And when did Fitzgibbon start it Glen? Please don’t say it was way back when he was a shadow minister. That’s ancient history.
It’s a good film though TP
What is the point of being an Opposition that opposes everything and has to attractive alternative??
There is no reason for anybody to want to vote for the Tories if they arent offering them anything, I cannot blame anyone other than ourselves for being so far behind in the polls.
Glen 171
A good honest assessment mate. If only you could get that message through to Turnbull and Co your party might begin the long journey back to relevance.
Rudd’s receives a phone call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_xrgeQfOI&feature=related
Pathetic. She probably thought she was being witty and original.
She would have been one of those people who think they’re the first person ever to say “I’m a poet but I didn’t know it”.
I think the problem is Glen that the Libs have forgeoten who started all of this.
As usual Turnbull tries to run about 5 lines at once, 4 of which confuse the 1 good issue.
Grog so Turnbull shouldnt make light of the fact a Minister of the Crown failed to properly declare trips he had to China???
I thought it was the Opposition’s job to hold the Government accountable?
The ABC seems to running a lot of this dopey China stuff, but you wouldn’t think the Rpert Murdoch-Wendy Deng press would be so interested.
Yes Glen it is indeed. Fitzgibbon has acknowledged that he failed to declare these gifts and has apologised. You pinged him. “A hit, sir, a palpable hit.” Well done. So what happens next? What flows from this? None of the rest of the stuff the Oppo is running has any real connection to this, not does it have any substance unless there is some kind of dirt on Ms Liu that the Morgoth press has so far fauiled to find. Maybe they are waiting for praliament to resume so they can reveal all under privilege. But by then it will be budget time and all this will be forgotten. So it had better be good. Otherwise all this will roll over and die in a few days.
Oh for goodness sake, Glen. He wasn’t a Minister of the Crown when he took those trips, and the trips were taken in2001 and 2005, I think. He did wrong in not declaring them and fluffed answering direct questions on the topic, but I think he was genuinely confused. You will probably disagree with me, but that’s how I see it. For Turnbull and Mesmerelda and Hockey to be taking the line they are on China and the Australian relationship with China that they are, is simply puerile.
Actually the so called Manchurian Candidate is a misnomer. Strictly speaking the Manchus are not Chinese, they are not the Han Chinese.
They came from North-east of China, on the border with Mongolia/Russia/Korea. They are more of Mongolian ancestry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu
They did conquer China, and were sinofied, almost completely.
We didnt bring this stuff up whoever leaked were people in the ALP or the ADF…
If Fitzy was smart he’d sack Angus and bring in a new ADF chief…at the very least it would show he means business.
168 Ruawake,
The policies that a majority of Libs would support are mutually exclusive to the policies that a majority of the electorate would support and therein lies the dilemma.
You can bet that there will be a discreet rolling of heads at Defence over the next year. Nothing too crude, but there will be a big cleanout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0LWktASTY
The point is, Glen, that your esteemed parliamentary representatives are screwing it up so very badly. It’s fair enough to ask about the nature of the relationship between Australia and China, as between the U.S. and Australia. However, on the basis of the evidence I see, despite the peculiarities of the MSM, it seems that the current government are not dills, and the Opposition are.
The fact that I could probably do a better job than that lot is a sad thing indeed.
Does Nelson have better figures than Turnbull now???
Well, are you going for pre-selection then, Glen?
Move to Bradfield and nominate ?
Have you got a song to go with that, Frank?
Glen
Is this your attempt at spin or are you seriously ignorant of the background to the issue?
Juliem has identified the core of the Liberal Party’s dilemma. They have certain core principles on which they base their policies. Those principles are, for the time being, totally discredited by the catastrophic consequences of the Bush administration, with which, thanks to Howard, the Liberals are linked in the public mind. So they can either stick to their principles and spend a long time in opposition, or they can ditch their principles and, maybe, spend less time in opposition but cease to stand for anything when they return to government. I’m glad I don’t have to make that choice
I’d vote for Glen
just to see him sitting up the back with Wilson calling out “BULLBUTTER” in QT
The reason that “Manchurian Candidate” never cuts it as a term of abuse in Australia is that there are too many Mancunians living in Australia (i.e from Manchester) There are also a lot of people that associate with Manchester United.
Yes they should make the non-declaration the issue not China.
The talk about Rudd being the Foreign Affairs Minister for China etc etc just clouds the issue. And means when they talk about the non-declaration it has no power becasue it’s lost in a haze of dog whistling.
Pick you fight and fight that, not pick every fight you can.
Bend it like Rudd?
Sorry should be Pick your fight, and fight that.
(Or as they say in The American President – you fight the fights you can win)
Turnbull had it right straight after the election. Admit defeat admit that WorkChoices was dead and that the Howard Govt was rejected. That was the only time the Liberals even got close to the right tactic.
surely he’d also do some blogging for his fellow PBers during QT?
Steve K’s 157 SMH story has this headline
Same story on ABC is presented like this
Adam. I’ve got an original Lenin badge from my ex-husband’s family who fled Russia after the 1907 uprising. Would it confuse the Opposition too much to start putting such items on”The Collectors”, do you suppose? They might get their commies confused? Drat, I forgot you don’t have a telly.
Frank,
The Road to Bradfield with the new blood of the Liberal Party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wgrM-R6yfY
Vera, there’s a good chance that Turnbull and Costello would be sitting up there with him.
redistribution chatter:
Yeah, good luck with that.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25260924-5013871,00.html
GG, i did say the Mancunians are not Chinese but i do see many many Manicurians that are Chinese. Yes, yes, yes, the yellow hordes are already here, just visit the arcades and shopping malls.
Oh, GG, that was just absolutely, far out, and monumentally bloody brilliant.
I’d more likely be yelling BULLBUTTER to Tuckey and tell him to quit and go to a nursing home there i said it.
Shocked I tells ya
Scorpio I don’t know if Turnbull’s pride would allow that. Besides Glen & Cossie wouldn’t want him hanging out with them. Glen’s got pride too you know!
Finns,
Possum has already mentioned the problem the Libs have with women voters atm. I fear for the Liberal base if they call Rudd the “Manicurist Candidate”.
This is how they “train” the Manicurian Candidate.
Warning, explicit material that might scare underage adults!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEcHil7kDs
SMH:
ABC:
hmmm
GG, i would second that. Do we have a consensus here on PB that:
Rudd is the “Manicurist Candidate”
Grog,
It’s called balance. Two are true, one is a lie.
GG – one of these things is not like the other…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZIvgQ9ik48
I’d call it spin
As Homer Simpson would say, it takes two to lie – one to lie and one to listen.
I think it might be time to stop listening to abc.net.au…
Grog,
The three the same look like Nelsons, Turnbulls and Hockeys.
At a guess, the three is probably from Bishop.
Costello’s empty plate is not there.
I’d call it their ABC
No doubt Lindsay Tanner is looking lovingly at the ABC budget even as we speak.
Oh how the madam at the ABC must be spewing that her extreme right wing friends so badly.
Looks like spin to me as well. Jezus, I’m still laughing about GGs song for Glen’s presumption to the thrown of Lib. Party preselection.
are doing so badly.
HSO,
Sorright!
Glad to see the Libs Tax expert is a nice non-partisan type:
The guy’s analysis makes Tony Abbott’s opinion pieces look reasoned and balanced.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25260080-5015664,00.html
I did mean thrown, BTW.
Their ABC is getting worse, even the 7.30 Report
on this China stuff, they had clips of Hockey then Abbott then Turnbull, all going their hardest, then had Tanner for 2 seconds saying “Turnbull is just trying to stir up some old ‘yellow peril’ sentiments.” and then back to Turnbull for another longwinded rant of how Tanner want’s us to do whatever the Chinese want etc etc
Libs 4 Alp 1
GG. sorright
Libs 4 ALP 1, Rudd 74.
Anyhoo enough bludging for me. Night all.
vera, doesn’t matter what they do ATM, besides being totally beside myself about the AbC for an age, no matter what the MSM, including their ABC do, the polls say something different.
As GG says via Talking Heads, itsorright, itsorright.
Here is a balanced article re the Fitzgibbon issue. (picked up at Lavartus)
http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2009/03/Joel-and-the-Defenders.aspx
The other side of a mini-redistribution is that Leichhardt and Kennedy would be split up into three seats.
I’m not even sure what the political outcome of that would be. I would guess one for Katter and the other two quite competitive.
Sleep well, bludgers Night from me as well.
Gee, the polls must be really hurting the management at the ABC. Can’t even force themselves to hide their attempts to undermine the Government.
ABC people, do you feel dirty after receiving your riding instructions?
I think the folk at auntie think that they are still part of the “ruling clique”
repeating talking points aint journalism or balanced coverage
The ABC aren’t even trying to hide their bias now. That headline may as well have come straight from Liberal party headquarters.
HSO I’m loving these polls, (warning mention of footy coming up
) seems the silvertails on a whole aren’t having a good time of it lately, Manly on the bottom of the table, arses kicked 3 weeks in a row D:
When the ABC are doing the Liberals job you know we’re in a bad way.
John Howards master plan for the ABC is in danger of coming to fruition. Hurry up and get independant analysis back in there, Kev
Does anybody know if the government pays for government ads on ABCTV?
And if so how are the rates calculated?
Or are they ‘public service announcements”?
You’re not wrong
Depending on the “ad” they should be tagged as Public Service Announcements.
Just logginin, but really Vera who the hell is Manly and what do you call footy in your neck of the woods? Better be yer thinking AFL, so far so good!
the masterplan being to alienate traditional supporters of the ABC to the extent that they wouldn’t bother putting up a fight if funding was withdrawn
There are no ads on the ABC. Just mystery, frivolity and the best of Australian story telling.
Then there is also the entertainment division mostly outside the news and politics.
poll on sky noos: should turnbull be axed as opposition leader before the budget:
current result 65% YES; 35% NO
AMAZING that sky would even ask that question, and even more amazing that their usually pro-Lib viewers are answering in this manner…
glad to see Glen talking about new policy, but how can his side do that when the election was a mistake, Rudd is on a honeymoon, the economy is tanking etc etc. Formulating new policy would be akin to accepting defeat, and the opposition are nowhere near that point yet
… and to think that the candidates to replace Turnbull are COSTELLO, HOCKEY, BISHOP and ABBOTT. Could it be any better? These are indeed great days to be a Labor hack. Once again a Labor government is saving Australia from disaster, indeed from several disasters simultaneously. As Pitt the Younger said: “We will save ourselves by our exertions, and we will save Europe by our example.” Only now it’s the whole world.
*Departs again to sleep the sleep of the righteous.*
Vera: I wouldn’t worry too much about the ABC, they lost their journalistic credibility years ago. It’s a strange world we live in when the commerical stations(hardly bastions of radicalism) give Rudd fairer media coverage than the national broadcaster.
You can tell Chris Ullhmann(or Toolman, as I prefer to call him) hates Rudd getting feted by the likes of David Miliband and the BBC in London, he’s always got a sneer on his face.
Vera 236, that would be NRL not footy
……. [ yes, I know every code thinks theirs is the only one to be called footy 
]
Geez the Chancellor of the Exchequer just put Tony Jones in his place. I lost count of the number of propositions TJ put to him that were totally shot down.
238, Let’s have Antony wearing more than one hat and then we might get some honest analysis
…..
Andrew 245, if MT isn’t careful he’ll end up an Underbelly statistic
……. reminder that Nelson was out on 44% dissatisfaction and MT as I understand it is at 45%, would explain the Sky News take on it tonight …. 
I follow both red & white teams.
I think the Swans are stuffed already for the year!
The Dragons(St George)? Hopefully Wayne Bennett can get them into the finals.
Dario: I’ve hated Tony Jones since his infamous interview with Nicole Cornes on November 24, 2007. A smarmy, self important git!
I’ve been reading that Henry Ergas article, “Rudd on the road to disaster”. After every sentence I have let out a loud WTF and had to take a walk around the room for a minute or two before being able to come back to it.
The better half keeps getting startled and I am still only half finished. This piece must have been written at Lib Headquarters by a bunch of Young Libs on steroids. I’m very tempted to print it out and get it framed to hang on the wall as an example of total revolting(revolving) spin extraordinaire.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25260080-5015664,00.html
Dario,
Was Tony Jones trying on his repetitious “gotcha’s” in different, transparent formats which are as easy to sidestep as a garden gnome.
I never saw that interview actually (or maybe have blocked it from my mind). As scorpio said, he tries the gotcha’s far too much, and just wastes half an interview doing it.
Crikey and Juliem yep Manly are of the league variety
But us NSWelshmen like our AFL as well Go Swannies!
Evan 14 my other half is a St George and Swans fan too.
Was about to go to bed but Sky are showing the Rudd/Brown press conference now so it’s my duty to watch
WTF anyone think they would treat Howie like this??
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/30/2530455.htm?section=justin
Gotta be freaking kidding me
Now Sky loses the Brown/Rudd conference feed… it’s all a conspiracy!!!
Overshadowed ? they wish lol
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25266936-601,00.html
This is going from the surreal to the sublime
OK what’s going on then? This is from the OO!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25266936-601,00.html
The Liberal Party is going down the drain at a hundred miles an hour and the management at the ABC are desperately lashing at trying to save them.
I expect to see ‘bingle in car park overshadows Rudd’s Downing Street talks’
OR
‘bingle in ABC car park overshadows Rudd’s chasing down and beating up of five heavily armed terrorists to protect the Queen’
OR
‘lack of milk in ABC fridge overshadows Rudd’s discovery of cancer cure ‘
Howard and his cronies have reduced it to joke status. They are obviously having a competition to see who can produce most ridiculously bias and untrue headline. Probably can’t out do a Murdoch journalist though.
Gusface me too
I blame the doppelgangers.
Vera
great minds etc etc
Totally surreal. The Oz gives the government a pat on the back from the left while Aunty tries to kick Rudd in the knackers from the right. Interesting times.
Gusface, that’ll be us
And when you have Glen calling out the ABC from pro-Liberal bias, you know something’s up…
Vera
it’s times like these that we need Ron to restore some sanity
Dario
I am always suss when a liberal conceds something
it was karen middleton SBS that asked the China question, she’s another sneerer who likes making petty remarks about the Govt
I miss Ron
Vera
my better half,who is rather mild, refers to the poisoned one as the pissed dwarf and regards most of the journo’s as crocks.
Most “names’ seem to have risen on Howards coatails and still probably think they owe Howie a “debt”
Glen has had a conversion on the road to Damascus.
Despondent Glen is ever so much more rational than belicose Glen.
You people are insufferably boring when you keep going on about non-existent bias at the ABC.
So do I
GP! How’s it going buddy?
Not me. Always felt like you needed to halve your IQ to read any of his posts.
Mrs Gusface sounds like a smart woman
Before i hit the hay, The Herald Sun have a story on Helen Liu. in it Bob Carr says what he thinks of jurnos too
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25266171-661,00.html
If a Liberal doesn’t see political bias in a media outlet you can be sure it favours the Libs big time.
No 279
I’m rather slumberous at the moment.
No 282
Gary, you guys constantly attack the ABC when it’s clearly the best and most balanced media outlet in the country.
You seem to think that balanced coverage is that which accords with Newspoll ratings. Well excuse me if I disagree unreservedly!
dario,
unfair, true but unfair
ps Ron is one the most obtuse bloggers i have the pleasure of reading
hence the empty feeling when he is not around
By the way, Ron does not seem to be unintelligent, merely incapable of spelling.
The Age still trying to make something out of nothing.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/picture-opportunity-pm-didnt-want-20090330-9h1w.html
Note this sentence in the article -
Watching unexpurgated Liberal Party propaganda on the ABC does that to you, GP.
GP
Its not the content that is the problem
Its the way it is presented (sometimes)
No 288
The ABC’s job is to present the party propaganda from everyone and present them in a balanced fashion such that viewers can make up their minds. What you’re actually arguing for is the censorship of the Liberal Party. I suppose, given the likes of Conroy, it is unsurprising.
Censorship of the Liberal Party? That’ll never happen thanks to News Ltd.
I agree with you. Now, if only the ABC did that all would be fine and dandy.
No 292
They do! You simply don’t like the Liberal segment. You are so transparent GB!
Pot meet kettle.
ABC is playing this documentary on how muslims treat gay muslims:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0778701/
I don’t understand why there is so much hatred in the world. We all end up in the same place in the end, why do people find the time to hate each other so much? What kind of mental stupidity do people need to convince themselves of in order to hate others?
With Albie and Schuttle still on board, I wouldn’t count on it Gary.
I agree. Plus they are completely over estimating the power of the media to change people’s opinions, and completely under estimating that cynical / bullcrap detection capabilities of the average Australia.
Complaining about how biased the media is is often a covert “everyone is stupid” theory.
GP,GB
My litmus test is Mrs G’s mum (who secretly still likes johnny I suspect)
and even she, in all her blue rinse glory, thinks the ABC “is a bit hard on Rudd”
ps She always tells me when JH has been on the TV, sorta like sighting Elvis I reckon
It will be interesting to see if the local media give any coverage to the high level of esteem that the PM is receiving by important leaders during his latest sojorne.
The Interview with David Ignatius by George Negus and the one by Tony Jones tonight with the British Chancellor of the Exchequer should, by rights, lead to coverage which demonstrate pride in our PM and the efforts he is going to, to help alleviate the effects of the GFC both here at home and abroad.
This won’t happen of course. You only had to witness that appalling tripe in yesterday’s interview with Dolly Downer. It was almost a replay of the 2007 election campaign. By the way Alex, you lost.
For those who missed it, here is the Negus interview again.
http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/600027/n/Interview-with-David-Ignatius
Shows
I dont complain holus bolus, just when it seems that the MSM or the ABC has “gone over the top”
BTW I start from the assumption that everyone is SMARTER than me.
Since when has the daily news constituted party propaganda that needs balancing, no 290? Why does every Liberal Party imbecility need to be “balanced” into a profundity of wisdom?
Be interested to know if you can point out an ABC online story you think weighted towards the Government, GP. Something equal to the current story “China debate overshadows Rudd’s Downing Street talks” which has a seperate story half way down that tells us “Mr Brown thanked Mr Rudd for his “amazing job” in the lead-up to the summit, in chasing and building consensus on a number of issues and for his proposals to restructure the banking system to remove toxic debts and other assets stopping the flow of credit.”. Do they not have enough bandwidth to publish two seperate stories? Server not have enough storage?
The headline ALWAYS tells the story from the Lib point of view..
Labor wins election???
yeah rightio thanks Gusface
Fulvio Sammut @ 301, Here, Here 0r Hear, Hear.
Paul Kelly got it right.
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2006/s1589615.htm
And GP, what’s your take on the ABC’s headline “Govt racks up $53m ad bill” in a story with no Liberal party source, given that the ad bill was in fact a third of the previous government’s? Do you think emotive language such as ‘racks up’ can at all be justified in such a case when it was actually a massive slashing of the previous spend? Look forward to your response…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/30/2530289.htm?section=australia
besides that I think the score is Liberal 504/Labor1
but whose counting
Just remember you guys that when we were in power I was claiming the ABC was biased against Howard.
So it is in the eye of the beholder and having anybody criticise the Government is seen as a personal attack by a one sided media outlet.
Saying the ABC is biased is getting boring on here.
Come on Glen. Even you saw the blatant bias in the ad spend article earlier.
Well they couldn’t really put much spin on that one could they
The ABC can be biased towards both parties, sometimes youll have Laborites on 730 and then lateline….is this not bias?
Can you point out an ABC online story biased to Labor GP?
Everything old is new again.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s67463.htm
The trouble with news coverage is systemic. Journalists are now “professionals” trained at universities, so they want to exhibit their credentials at every opportunity and think a byline means they can replace actual facts with their own perceptions and theories.
There should be very little room -even in political coverage- for any spin by the journalist. The rule used to be: report what happened and get an appropriate person to comment. In political stories, this meant getting one government point of view, and one opposition point of view for balance. The journalist’s own point of view used to be irrelevant. Nowdays journalists are all columnists.
Glad he got that sorted out
Looks like The Age is still trying to keep the Fitzgibbon story alive.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/fitzgibbon-met-chinese-generals-with-liu-on-trip-20090330-9h1v.html?page=-1
Looks like the investigation by the Defence Secretary, Nick Warner and the Chief of the Defence Forces has been a thorough one. NOT!
http://www.theage.com.au/national/fitzgibbon-met-chinese-generals-with-liu-on-trip-20090330-9h1v.html?page=-1
What a crock!
It’s already dead since the 74% I feel
FMD, if that’s all he did, it’s just pathetic
I wonder why The Age is engaging in this sort of trashy reporting.
They need to boost sales? They don’t like Chinese? New management? Or did JF upset one of their reporters?
———————
Wonder if Chris Uhlmann realises he is wasting his time? He is going seem awfully small and awfully shrill when Labor win the next election.
Time for a new defence Secretary.
If Defence want to play games and waste our tax dollars on unbelievable incompetence they deserve a new boss of this type.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Moore-Wilton
Adam
1. Have done a bit of reading in response to your earlier comment that you have a rational Islamophobia because ‘they want to execute me’. I must admit to a profound ignorance on the topic prior to your comment. I was unaware, for example, that several thousand gays have been executed in Iran these last few years. (If that is incorrect, I would be happy to stand corrected).
2. Have also been doing a bit of reading on your views on ‘death cult’. Re the latter: it seems to me that if world policy makers really do come to the conclusion that the ‘death cult’ notion is correct, then is there no possible future that encompasses both Islam and seculars. It would have to be a war to the finish. I don’t subscribe to this but would be interested in your views.
I am inclined to think that it (a view about the existence of a death cult) is actually gaining legs in the sense of Palestinians having only two alternatives. The first option is accepting disproportionate deaths in the face of vastly Israeli power and in the face of 700,000 plus Jewish ’settlers’ ’settling’ on post 1967 West Bank Palestinian lands. I think Barak has just made some statements about accepting a ‘natural increase’ in settler numbers. What Lieberman has publicly said hardly bears thinking about. Anyway, this Palestinian acceptance of disproportionate deaths, is so frustrating to the Israelis that the only ‘rational’ explanation for them is that they (the Israelis) are facing a people who profess an irrational ‘death cult’. The second option for the Palestinians is to accept that, regardless of whatever other views they might hold, ‘Might makes right.’ In which case their accepting further disproportionate deaths would be pointless.
I am thinking my way through here, would be happy to mull over contrary notions and would appreciate your views.
Ok folks, down to 11% in the Murray Darling Basin storages:
http://riverinfo.mdba.gov.au/weekly-report/current_wr.pdf
Looks like that old notion that Labor governments make it rain has gone down the tubes.
No doubt the 5% ETS will fix it all.
“Greensborough Growler
Posted Monday, March 30, 2009 at 6:51 pm | Permalink
ltep,
Is that a “please” don’t let it happen?
However, agree with your analysis.
When Hawke peaked at 75% popularity in April 1984, they held an election later that year that Labor only just won.
It’s nice to be popular. But, even better to be in Government.”
The problem was the six week campaign.
No it’s not. I think it’d be quite exciting to have a DD election and witness the changes that would arise from it.
My comment was just relating to practicalities. I don’t see an extremely early election happening (that is, before the second half of next year). Even if the Government have trouble getting their CPRS legislation through I’m not sure they’d want to necessarily go to an election on the issue (although I’m sure it will be an issue at the next election in any case).
An interesting discussion on the our monarchy by Rees Mogg. He acknowledges that it discriminates against catholics and women, and argues for leaving it alone for another century or so, for pragmatic reasons (as defined by Rees Mogg).
(It actually discriminates against not just catholics, but anyone who is not a protestant).
Would the adoption of a bill of rights by Australia automatically be in conflict with the Act of Settlement 1701 which establishes hereditary principles that enshrine gender and religious discrimination?
Is this the elephant in the cupboard for anti-republicans who also oppose the adoption of a bill of rights?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/william_rees_mogg/article5998529.ece
Oops. cf 327: Elephant in the room, not cupboard…
Perhaps Chris was upset over the $6.4million the govt spent on advertising against teenage binge drinking as part of the $54 million advertising spend which the BAC had as its headline.
His mates malcopops and Fielding are so against any attempt to interrput the breeding cycle of the average aussie yobbo.
I agree with Glen that the ABC whining is tedious.
Though no less tedious than when those on Glen’s side of the fence were doing the complaining.
“I agree with Glen that the ABC whining is tedious.”
Well thats just too bad for you both. When the boots on the other foot, presumably is not tedious.
Listened to Uhlmann the other day on the 7.30 report and was definitely commentating, not reporting.
There was a brief – probably 30 secs tops – description of what Rudd was doing and then a series of opinions about what he should be doing.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite so blatant – the most that used to happen was a strictly factual report with a sentence at the end that gave away the journo’s bias.
Try reading the whole post before you respond next time.
I usually agree that the whining about the ABC is unwarranted and tedious.
When it comes to Mr Uhlmann though I don’t believe he is ‘impartial’ as many people have called for the ABC to be. When reporting political news your job should be to make statements of fact and not let opinion creep in. He needs to either stick to the facts, go to another news channel or become an opinion writer.
#254 evan14
I think I’d give Tony the benefit of the doubt on that. My recollection is that he was trying to his duty as a journalist by asking straight questions about why she lost, but he chose the wrong words or said something that hit a nerve and then struggled to get out of the hole he’d got into. I remember thinking that he seemed to be squirming a little about how it was going, and he wouldn’t have if he intended to embarrass Cornes. I think it was just one of those occasions when live television goes badly.
Anyone else watch that breakfast show on ABC2?
Wall to wall anti Rudd/pro Liberal Party crap!
I knew Virginia Trioli dislikes Rudd, but Joe O’Brien is now getting in on the act too.
Who would have thought that Mel & Kochy look credible journalists/commentators in comparison?
Well, aren’t we fair and balanced over at the OO today?
Julia will kill jobs
Michael Stutchbury, Economics editor AWARD modernisation will greatly push up overtime costs and force businesses to shut early.
Malcolm Colless: G-G’s absurd safari
Barry Cohen: Unfair law toxic for small businesses
Julie Novak: Monster of debt to come
Let alone Shannahanhanan’s spray about Joel Fitzgibbon (apparently now it’s highly suspicious if you rent a flat of somebody).
I know nothing about Helen Liu but I am getting very angry about the attacks on her. I didn’t realise that it was a crime to be born in China. I didn’t realise that it was a crime to be a successful businessperson. I didn’t realise that combining the two makes you fair game for slurs and innuendo.
I would like one of those journalists indulging in these attacks on her to justify them.
She isn’t an elected person, she doesn’t appear to have a Brian Burke/Alan Bond type murky past, her privacy and her reputation should be respected.
triton
I can’t agree with that. I didn’t have much time for Cornes but she improved a lot. Tony Jones’ interview was a disgrace. He basically asked her if she was glad she lost so she could spend more time shopping. The normally placid Mrs Diogenes almost smashed the television she was so irate at his patronising and smug attitude to someone who had done it very tough and come through a lot better.
zoomster
The media are getting highly annoyed that she hasn’t done an interview and is just ignoring them. They hate that more than anything. They won’t stop until they get access to her. They will keep escalating these BS attacks until she talks to them.
Or hires a really good libel lawyer.
It actually discriminates against anyone who is not an *Anglican*. Strictly speaking Anglicans are not protestants, whatever the Archbishop of Sydney may desire. They are catholics, just not Roman catholics. The Church of England regards itself as part of the catholic (ie, universal) Christian church, temporarily separated from other catholics by a dispute over the powers of the Bishop of Rome. Genuine protestants reject episcopal authority altogether. The Vatican accepts this view to some extent, which is why Anglican priests can become Catholic priests without too much difficulty, in a way that a Presbyterian minister, for example, certainly could not.
zooster
All of this is straight out of the liberal copy book and that of its supporters including the oo.
When they are out of power everything is to be smashed and brought down. Race cards are used at will and even areas of normally bi-partisan approach are used to attack.
This is only going to be worse as it is all they know. Turnbull is getting very desperate and fat boy joe is getting more shrill everytime he opens his mouth.
We are seeing the liberals core beliefs and standards at work. – that is “If they cannot have power – destroy the country’s prospects at every opportunity”.
Now we know why Victoria does well in the Productivity Commission when they rate hospitals. The figures are fake. And of course no-one, including the Minister, will lose their jobs over what is fraud. It’s been happening for 10 years in this instance. The Health system is broken and seriously needs a huge reform.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25266415-661,00.html
Boerwar @ 327 I keep all my elephants in the cupboard, because none of my rooms is big enough.
Have the Liberal Party or the media said anything about Ms Liu other than that she has some type of relationship with the Australian and Chinese Governments? If so, I’d like to see links and quotes.
This whole thing has been a beat-up aimed to attack the Government, not Ms Liu. Looking at the whole scenario for even 5 minutes you can see it’s all flimsy and desperate. The media/Opposition just grabs hold of anything they can and spin and spin until it looks like some grand conspiracy.
turnbull hockey bishop and others have blowing the dog whistle full blast.
If you cannot see it or accept it – thats your problem. Don’t even try to defend what they are doing – it only drags you down as well.
What they are doing is absolutely vile.
#338 Diogenes
Having only seen it live at the time I couldn’t remember exactly what he said. I knew he put his foot in his mouth and maybe there was an underlying dismissive attitude towards Cornes that led to the question. I’m not disputing that Jones handled it badly, or even disgracefully, but I still don’t think he set out to belittle or embarrass Cornes. I suspect he’d like to rewind and try again.
BTW, I’ve never seen worse treatment of any candidate than Cornes got in that campaign. I hope she tries again and wins the seat.
You might as well try defending the action by the liberals in jackie kelly’s old electorate on the eve of the last election.
It is all out of the liberals standard play book – their core approach
How that incident is relevant at all to whether Helen Liu has a case in libel against elements of the Australian media or the Opposition is beyond me.
As far as I’m aware all that’s been done is to take the position that Ms Liu has ties with the Chinese Government and try to blow the issue into a larger point about Australia’s foreign policy position in regard to China. It seem completely nonsensical to do so, but that’s irrelevant to whether Helen Liu has been libelled.
triton
She’s working for a union at the moment to get that “union thug” thing happening.
I would agree with you about Tony Jones but he never apologised to her. Even Andrew Bolt had the decency to apologise and he only called her a “dill”. He said
Ramsay put it best when he said “No candidate for any party in any state emerged with more dignity in “losing” on election night than Cornes.”
Zoomster 337, I don’t usually go to that site as they are normally so hopeless. Out in Perth, The West isn’t usuallly much better but today their online edition is quite reasonable. (I won’t see the print edition until later). The online edition is leading with stories on Gaddafi insulting the Saudis, new probe on Arafat’s death, Bali battling rabies and the IRA. They aren’t giving local issues the time of day
(”Rudd skirts secret meetings” is #10 on the docket)
ltep @ 345
More OO beat up here:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25267130-601,00.html
A great article by Simon Johnston (former Cheif Economist at IMF) on the GFC in The atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
He highlights the political problem at the core of the current economic problems – financial institutions have grown not only “too big to fail” but also too big to prosecute or punish, and too powerful for governments to disobey. The political implications fo this are profound, and the graph on page one is staggering – by 2007 financial firms were makign 40% of al the profits in the US economy. When you think about it, financial “services” are really just a cost to the rest of us, so this shos that the finance sector has becoem a huge burden the rest of us in the “real” economy have to carry. We would be very niaive to think this doesn’t also apply in Australia.
You seemed to overlook that I have never said Helen Liu was libeled.
I am saying the liberals are back to trying to stir up racial hate for their own political gain. That is what they do when they get desparate. That is what howard did in the past against asians.
And I am saying this is vile.
Positive words from the media telling it like it is ….. Good on Ross Peake (from the Canberra Times)
* and if this poll is already showing the fallout from their tactics in the last week to 10 days I bet its only the tip of the iceberg
….
Barry Brook, a prominent CC scientist, has summarised his opposition to a CPRS. He prefers a carbon tax. This is his position as submitted to the Senate enquiry, which I agree with;
http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/03/30/cprs-vs-carbon-tax-senate-inquiry/
btw, the latest “surge” in the popularity of Ruddster and his Govt, has anybody attributed that to Peter Garrett rocking again in the Oils. Methinks so. It is rocking all over the world in this GFC and TGR.
Britian has had these problems too …..
You can libel someone through insinuation, and I would argue that that’s what’s happening here.
Have you READ Dennis’ article?
The clear implication is that just being associated with Ms Liu makes you suspect.
If someone questioned my loyalty to Australia and my integrity in this way I’d been talking to my lawyers.
Shanahan’s article is a low act of political character assassination and bastardry.
Just when you think he can’t go any lower, he comes up with something like this.
He doesn’t even have the courage to accept responses to his vile scribblings lrt alone to have them published.
I hope she sues him into penury.
To me, that all looked like statements of fact. She’s a member of various organisations. The point of the article is questionable though… what do I care if she’s a ‘a member of the editorial committee of Shandong Ming Jia’?
No I don’t make it a point to read articles by Mr Shanahan, Mr Akerman or Mr Henderson. May as well cut out the middle man and head over to http://www.liberal.org.au
Chinese ancestry is the most common ethnic group after Kiwis and Brits. No wonder that the CT poll shows the Libs beginning to lose votes over this
(from the Census bureau)
There’s no way Shana would get done for libel on that article, sadly. It would be covered by “fair comment”. He’s raising questions and insinuations rather than coming out and saying Liu is a spy. He’s saying she could be a spy, which is true. Of course any of us could be a spy and the only reason he’s saying it is to dog-whistle, but there’s no law about that (or Howie would be banged up right now).
Juliem
You also find Chinese ancestry in the most unlikely places.
I met a tall, blond haired, blue eyed sixth generation local farmer the other day, who was very proud that he had a Chinese great grandfather, who had come over during the goldrushes.
I don’t know what the statistics would be, but from my knowledge of local history, anyone whose family has been here more than a couple of generations probably has a dollop of Chinese blood.
Yet you’d label it a typical redneck enclave on ‘face value’.
Diog
sue him anyway and get him to justify himself.
‘Why did you think it was controversial that the Minister was renting a flat from Mrs Liu?” etc…
That is not necessarily a defence to libel
Dario
It’s a partial defence. It depends also on what the intent was and how reckless the statement was. He could also point to his long history of never getting anything right as habitual incompetence is a common defence against libel cases.
They are having a GFC in the Atlantic? Great Fish Crisis?
Yes, I don’t think the laws of libel let you get away with saying whatever you like on the basis that the statement could apply to anyone.
Otherwise what a field day you could have – ‘Malcolm Turnbull COULD BE (insert relevant accusation’.
There has to be some evidential basis for what you say.
Can someone provide a link to this Shanahan article that is apparently so awful? I’ve had a bit of a look but only found one that just mentions her name.
[No I don’t make it a point to read articles by Mr Shanahan, Mr Akerman or Mr Henderson. May as well cut out the middle man and head over to http://www.liberal.org.au
LOL
Precisely why I said it was not necessarily a defence to libel
Exactly. If a journalist were to write tomorrow that ‘Malcolm Turnbull might be a paedophile’, what do you think his chances of winning a libel case might be?
Have only just been able to log in but I have been reading comments this a.m. and definitely agree with whoever said Trioli is hard to watch. Her sneers are infuriating when she mentions anything slightly against Kev – and Joe is not much better lately.
Juliem – was there anywhere in those stats that shows how many of the ‘Australia’ section were Australian born Chinese. That would increase the Chinese influence.
Bet Maxine wins bigtime in Bennelong next time.
“In the 2006 Australian Census, 669,890 Australian residents identified themselves as having Chinese ancestry, either alone or with another ancestry.” (Wikipedia)
Well, there you go, Adam – Maxine will be in Bennelong for yonks. Stupid, stupid, Turnbull & Co.
Re Shanaahanan article – Sorry, can’t copy the link for some reason and the article has mysteriously vanished from the main opinion page – you can access it via the box on the upper right hand side.
NSW projected figures out.
Quick thoughts:
* North Shore electorates all tend to be a bit under quota – might force Bennelong westward again
* Anyone hoping for a westward expansion of Wentworth will be disappointed – it’s actually above quota (but within tolerance)
* The north coast seats won’t change much except Lyne which will expand southwards (not sure exactly what the political implications are for Paterson but I would presume helpful for Labor)
* All the seats west of the great divide are under quota
* Most of the southern Sydney seats seem to hold up OK. Lowe is struggling a bit for numbers, but it borders Reid which is the state’s most over quota seat.
* Western Sydney: Lindsay and Fowler a bit under quota, that might push Macarthur out a bit.
* I can’t get the Malcolm Mackerras idea to a Throsby/Gilmore merger to work. Yes, both seats are undersized, but what about the knock-on effects? All Mackerras has mentioned is cutting the Snowies from Eden-Monaro, which is small beer. Having thought about the implications myself, I would see Hughes being dragged down the coast and becoming a hybrid Sutherland/Illawarra seat. But this is where the numbers fail me. Take the six seats from Sutherland southward as a collective. Now remove Tumbarumba/Tumut from Eden-Monaro (about 10K voters) and remove Liverpool Shire from Hughes (about 34K voters). We’re trying to turn six seats into five, but we’re still left with 5.3 quotas. Where else are voters going to be shed? I can’t see Hume moving into the coastal shires, nor can I see it expanding further southward into Eden-Monaro (it would start to encroach on Queanbeyan). The only remaining possibility would be to bring a third seat into Sutherland Shire; which strikes me as unlikely.
(OK. That last thought wasn’t so quick.)
I think the south coast seats will remain. They can be brough up to tolerance by pushing into the southern or eastern parts of Hume. This would reverse the changes at the last redistribution, where Gilmore lost Moss Vale et al.
Indeed Hume might be a good candidate for abolition. A rural periphery seat, it seems a likely type. The other one I’d look closely at is Hunter, also a rural periphery seat.
The now Paterson part of Lyne was only changed a couple of elections ago. I wouldn’t be happy about going back into Lyne, altho I have respect for the way Oakeshott has conducted himself in the Parliament this term.
We are full of big hopes that Paterson will be knocked out of that dilbury Baldwin’s hands in 2010. Don’t leave me disillusioned David Walsh.
Hume and Hunter are both federation seats. The commissioners are SUPPOSED not to abolish federation seats, although that hasn’t stopped them abolishing Gwydir last time (quite unnecessarily) or Kalgoorlie this time (more excusably). My candidate for abolition is Farrer. It’s not a federation seat, it’s not named after anyone particularly noteworthy, and it’s an awkward hybrid seat with no real regional identity. It could be partitioned between Riverina and Calare, although that would draw Calare a long way to the west and away from the Lachlan, which it’s named after and where it’s always been based. Alternatively Calare (created 1906) could be abolished and partitioned between Riverina and Farrer. But the lesson from the last two redistributions is that *it’s impossible to predict what the commissioners will do.* If they decide to abolish a city seat, Lowe or Blaxland (both created 1949, not named after anyone very important) would be my suggestions.
Hasn’t JWH’s old henchman (Max the Axe) done so well at Sydney Airport.
What has he done now BK
BH @ 381
Read and enjoy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/31/2530644.htm?section=justin
Thanks BK – wonder how much he has taken in bonus payments to compensate for his ‘bottom of the rung’ Airport. Someone should axe him from his job.
Did you see on news.com.au that Costello is mentoring Joe Hockey. So that’s where Hockey is getting is blowhard nastiness from lately – the sneer training is going great guns too it seems.
No, BH, I didn’t have the pleasure of seeing that particular gem. Hockey is becoming shriller and shallower by the day.
Diog 356
Going on about an ETS cap harming voluntary action is like a early 20th Century
Tory going on about the welfare state and public schooling harming charity.
The important point is to reduce emissions. So far voluntary action has managed to get at best 10-12% of electricity consumers on to green power. This is just not good enough: it accounts for very little of our nation’s emissions. We have to switch all the consumers over to renewables in the next 20 years and do much much more besides.
Worrying about a small churn in voluntary action is not the reason to suddenly delay action and go back to the drawing board on getting a compulsory scheme in place.
Most of the advocates of carbon tax in Australia now are using it as a tactic to confuse and delay any action.
There are much more important reasons to put a compulsory scheme in place soon and there are arguments which suggest that a cap and trade scheme has advantages over a carbon tax.
A first class lead-in from Crikey today.
“It is rare that such an open and shut case has been presented to the Australian people for judgment. There cannot be a shred of doubt: Helen Liu is … um, something. You know. Like, a bit, sort of … you know what we mean.
According to The Australian’s headline, Liu “…has strong links with Chinese army”. However, when eager readers examine the relevant article to see this clinching proof that our Defence Minister has been “showered with gifts” by a PLA officer, they only discover she’s on the editorial committee of “Shandong Celebrities Family”, which “has extensive membership within China’s military, the Peoples’ Liberation Army”.
But wait, there’s more compelling evidence. “Of the past 10 cover photos, three have featured senior army officers”. An ex-PLA officer did some calligraphy for them.
And the clincher? Ms Liu — or Madame Liu, as News Ltd publications inexplicably call her — is from Shandong, and “Shandong is famous as a source of senior soldiers in China.”
Lucky she’s not from Szechuan, famous for its duck. Even The Australian in its wildest deluded dreams, surely cannot be serving this rubbish up with a straight face.
Oh, and last time we checked, News Ltd’s owner was himself married to a Chinese-born businesswoman. Married! Chinese! Woman!
ASIO took the unprecedented step of issuing a statement saying it had no concerns about Ms Liu. Or, presumably, with her connections with John Howard, with whom she has been photographed.
What’s the exact charge here? What’s the problem? Where is this all leading? And what is the Opposition trying to suggest with its constant reiteration of loose factoids connecting the Rudd Government with China?
Instead of devoting time and effort to working out who did calligraphy for “Shandong Celebrities Family”, here are some real issues journalists could pursue:
what the febrile Sinophobic atmosphere being whipped up in Australia means for future Chinese investment
how Kevin Rudd can best argue the Anglo-American-Asia-Pacific case for sensible reform to global finance
how Australia’s defence interests are served if a handful of rogue Defence officials can slander the Minister trying to reform that Department.”
Those that earlier expressed some concern on the viability of Geothermal power generation will be pleased to here that Geodynamics has completed the proof of concept stage of their devlopement.
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20090331/pdf/31gv9zd4g6wknx.pdf
Not particularly noteworthy? He was on the bloody $2 note!!!
Uh-Oh! it’ll be Rudd of Arabia next
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/gulf-friends-look-to-us-as-iran-flexes-its-muscles-20090330-9gzl.html?page=1
Dr Good, nice to hear from one of the dwindling number of ETS supporters. Welcome to the club of one (now two)
Everyone on Poll Bludger should look carefully at the ETS. The MSM are going along for the ride with the polluting industries to undermine the ETS in the hope of creating so much popular confusion that action in any form is delayed. A legislative shift now from an ETS now would set this country back a least 3 years in fight against the climate change.
Remember, the Greens don’t like the ETS for a different reason to most of the other opponents. Like so many other areas that the Poll Bludgers well know, the MSM can push a particular barrow pretty effectively on behalf of vested interests.
Secret meetings with women in veils?
And the men could be hiding bombs under their Thobes!
Dario. we could write for the ABC lol
Kit
The GFC has done more to reduce carbon emissions than the CRPS ever would. It’s bought us three years to get in place a decent CC strategy.
I agree with Adam that Farrer should be abolished. As a seat, it doesn’t make sense (what do Albury and Broken Hill have in common?) and to a foreign observer, it looks like a gerrymandered seat (even though it’s not).
Expanding Calare to include Broken Hill (probably by shifting it west) and subsequently expanding Riverina to include Albury and Deliniquin would make more sense. Hume can then drift south-west, with subsequent adjustments being made to Gilmore and Eden-Monaro.
You could then compensate for this loss of a Coalition seat in NSW by creating a new notionally Liberal seat in the northern part of the Gold Coast (I’m guessing in between Bowman and Fadden).
Diogenes – Garnaut says two years. But to suggest that this means “Oh, good, now we can do nothing for two years” is bullsh*t, as you surely know. If the current ETS bill is defeated, nothing will replace it. We will be back at square one, a huge victory for the carbon lobby and their political creatures like Boswell.
Today’s Wong speech: “Our Government’s view is that we cannot allow the global financial crisis to weaken our determination to address the very real and long-term threat that climate change poses. Though it will be a tough battle, the world will emerge from our current economic difficulties. And we know when we do, climate change will still be with us. Failure to take global action at this point would increase investment uncertainty at precisely the wrong time. Such a move would jeopardise the jobs of today, but also remove the incentive to create the jobs of the future. Whether we act or not, there will be fundamental changes to how we live as a result of climate change. The question is: do we have the resolve to take on this challenge, or will we let it overtake us? Will we rise to this challenge, or will we shrink from it?”
Vera & Dario – you’d be a lot more interesting that the mob presently at the ABC.
I sent off an email to the Editor – thanks for the headlines from the other media today Vera. Probably will get one of the formal type replies but if they don’t get any feedback they’ll think they are doing a good job. No harming in telling them they downright lousey at it.
I could never stoop to that level…
Adam
If we pass the legislation, we are locked into a crap ETS for 10 years. If we don’t, we get nothing but might get a better CC strategy down the track. Both are bad. I don’t know which is the least bad.
I’m hoping that Obama’s meeting at the end of April might improve the situation but I’m not confident.
BH, great minds think alike, i’ve sent an email to the editor of ABC online as well.
So a bad ETS, which can be adjusted when in place, is worse than no ETS. I don’t get it.
Thanks Kit and Adam
I am not a one-eyed ETS supporter and would probably be pushing a Carbon Tax if the proposal for one had got as far as draft law. But I do believe an ETS is a better choice.
I also agree that we would lose many years if we changed our minds now. If the government decided to start proposing a carbon tax then there would have to be consultation and all sorts of compromises and special cases and compensation. In three years we would be back to where we are now but with business and some green groups calling for an ETS instead because the carbon tax law looks too messy.
Dio 394, you will need to accept that any of these compulsory schemes are not going to be put in place and work perfectly straight away. As we have seen with the European system, there are going to be many years of adjustments before they start working smoothly. We already know that getting agriculture into the Australian scheme is future work. And we have seen here and in Europe how the temporary initial stages with many free permits(as in Europe) or compensation to prevent blackouts(here) are messy periods.
We need to get a compulsory scheme in place now and get to work on many years of arguing about adjustments as it settles in.
#388 Dario (on Farrer)
Well, that’s certainly note-worthy.
Goodo Judith – bet we both get the same replies. I left a bit on Bernard Kean’s bit today too – can’t let an opportunity go by to point out the ABC’s lack of decent journos nowdays.
Uhlmann as a commentator gets me too. What experience or qualifications does he hold (other than probably a less than beaut communications degree) to make him an expert commentator on things. And why is the ABC wasting money sending him to the UK, etc. Don’t they have decent resident journos over there any more.
Same with Cassidy – why was he sent to the US for the elections. The bloke they already have in Washington is terrific and pretty apolitical. Just perks for Uhlmann and Cassidy and a complete waste of taxpayer funds. Kev should dock the amount wasted from the ABC budget.
gee I’m having a bit of a rant today. Sorry folks.
BTW, Judith, my mates from Salisbury sent a DVD of the ACA program – after watching that I now have greater admiration for your ability to make me laugh at some of your comments and I hope the DNA stuff helps put those bods where they belong.
No we won’t. If Rudd with all his 74% approval can’t this bill up, he won’t be able to just turn around and bring in a stronger bill. It would be a terrible defeat for Rudd and for action on CC. It would be a great victory for the carbon lobby and for Turnbull. Is that what you want? Personally I agree that we should have gone for 20% by 2020, but I disagree that the current bill is worthless. If we can get even to 10% down from 2000 levels by 2020 (if we do nothing emissions will rise to 120% of 2000 levels by 2020) that would be a huge achievement and would *increase pressure on the US and China* – which is the main object of the exercise. The glass is half full, not half empty! Get with the program!
The Guardian seems a little confused about our PM’s character, at one stage calling him “conventional” and “a bit of a nerd” and later suggesting he is the G20 leader “most likely to party like it’s 2009″ and rehashing the Scores story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/31/g20
Do you mean unilaterally 20% instead of 5% by 2020? Or do you mean increase our highest target assuming world cooperation from 15% to 20%?
Diogenes,
I thought we already have one! The strategy is right, it is just the cap that’s wrong.
You cannot predict or mandate emission reductions with a carbon tax. By advocating a tax (and I’m not saying you are Diogenes) you are supporting the idea that carbon reductions are something that should be dealt with by government, like a police force or the military. That is, it’s not a business issue it’s society’s issue. Well, it is a business issue. Like the other garbage which is a result of the process of manufacturing a product, carbon must be specifically included as a cost of production.
It is the political Right which want to brand carbon reductions as a social good which should therefore be achieved via a tax. The Left should be supporting a system which locks-in carbon as a cost of production and a system by which business will, rather than try to avoid or minimise it as they do with any tax, engage in the process of its eventual eradication in the production process.
An ETS is a long term structural change in how industry operates and has the great social democratic virtue of having the main lever (that is the cap) controlled by the government.
A tax is a short term mechanism that cannot predict emission reductions and which can be avoided like any other tax. It can also be wiped off the statute books very quickly with one stroke of PM Peter Costello’s pen
Do we have an expected time for the High Court to settle the case on the ATO and our stimulus money? I know that they are arguing the case today and for all I know, given the time difference, it could be in the judges hands right now. I’ve linked through to the HC web site but it is really vague and says nothing more than the case is being argued today. Will they say something final today or put it off till a future date? Can anyone who hears please post ASAP? Usually the grapevine gets the information about quicker than waiting for some bloke to type it into breaking news on the web
…..
Either would be better. A would be better than B. What we have now is C. If it fails we will have Z.
What’s the bet that Channel 9 are going to bring out an Underbelly series on the Bikie Wars???
The MSM seems to be spruking young Hockey as the next Liberal leader wouldnt they love a Sunrise election. Maybe Hockey might like the idea of not having Mel say to him ‘you look gutted’…he should have flattened her after that comment what a stupid question god.
Marshall Lin Biao – Hubei province
Marshall Zhu De – Sichuan province
Mao Zedong – Hunan Province
Deng Xiaoping – Sichuan province
Zhou Enlai – Zhejiang province
Liu Shaoqi – Hunan Province
If anybody is a potential “suspect” as being a security risk, it has to be Rupert himself, as Wendy Deng (his wife) is “related”, however distant, to “The Venerated, rich and glorious Deng Xiaoping”, that her claim to fame.
Sounds like your standard hatchet job. Cobble together all the accumulated ‘dirt’ you can find into the one article, no matter how small, then try to make an overall story out of it. Problem is, they usually contradict because the myopia of the author makes them so focussed on dealing out a character assassination with each individual element, rather than being able to step back and actually analyse the thing objectively.
I hope Rudd met up with David Cameron after all he’ll be the British PM in 2010.
I can only see two arguments for any unilateral Australian cap by 2020.
One is that it might embarrass other countries if there is still no reasonable international agreement and scheme in place by then. But in that situation we would be a small floundering uncompetitive economy starting to suffer serious real harm to our environment, economy and people’s health. So probably regarded as a basket case and not taken too seriously.
The other argument is that it provides a minimal but significant (economically but not environmentally) temporary target to allow an ETS to be imposed and settle in while waiting for the international agreement to get in place and to allow our economy to slot in smoothly to the new international-ETS economy. As soon as the international agreement is there we switch over to the tougher targets.
For both these reasons I see no argument for the unilateral target to be anything more than 5% (which is a 25% cut on current emissions).
I would welcome hearing of any serious reasons why Australia’s unilateral 2020 target
should be more than a 5% reduction. (Note: I am talking about the unilateral target, not the target if the rest of the world comes on board).
414 – Glen, didn’t you have Springborg being the next Queensland premier?
But Cameron is so far ahead in the polls…
Also he’s not boring like the Borg.
Brown is as boring as the Borg so things do not bode well for him.
Glen, Cameron was mentioned as one of the people Rudd would be meeting.
Did you read that article about how Cossie is mentoring Joe?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25268221-601,00.html
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/no-place-for-chinese-whispers-20090330-9gzk.html?page=-1
A secret visit? Poor Gerard must have a hearing problem, a chinese whisper that was roaring from the Ruddster to Stokes. I suppose you can only hear what you want to hear. Wait, there’s more.
Wow, what a great insight and wisdom Gerard has given us: “China collects intelligence in Australia”. No it cannot be, where do they find the time to collect intelligence? the last time I saw the Chinese, they were busy doing the hokkien noodle stir-fry with the hot Sichuan bean paste, with a dash of Shandong chicken.
Btw what is Pine Gap for again?
Well at lunch time today I can say there is one at least one Australian person of Chinese heritage spewing at Turnbull’s attack on China. They are also upset wtih that Nationals guy trying to stop the cash bonus.
Dr Good, the only issue with an ETS is that it pretty much dominates emission reduction strategies – that is, it imposes a floor and ceiling and therefore leaves little room for other strategies to be implemented which may also reduce emissions. Therefore, to be effective the floor and the ceiling must be robust to compensate for its dominance.
I agree that a unilateral 5% will be useless insofar as climate change is concerned without a global agreement but so will unilateral 25% or 40%.
So, Dr Good you are right, the only number that matters is the numbers each country chooses at Copenhagen. Therefore, hope that we can gain popular support for an ETS and allow the government the political freedom to up our commitment from 15% to 25% or even 30% at Copenhagen and show the world we are willing to give our share if others are.
Vera if Costello is going to stay put it is the least he could do.
TP, Helen Liu is Malcolm Turnbull’s Pauline Hanson, with an apology Ms. Liu.
And where is that now?
Serioiusly though the Murdoch media’s willingness to villifie any old person on the street if they are not white to help the Liberal Party is pretty pathetic and low grade journalism. Well, it isn’t journalism, it is pure propaganda. Racism still runs wild among Murdoch journalists.
Ms Liu’s ‘crime’ is? Being Chinese.
Does she have Australian citizenship???
Exactly, so you should have the decency to let Mr Farrar’s name live on in electoral form!
Yes
Glen,
“I am an Australian citizen and I participate in all activities, not just political. I go to charity functions, I go to parties to which I am invited. I am a very good Australian businesswoman.”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25267806-2,00.html?from=public_rss
Glen, yes she does.
Does she have Chinese citizenship?
If she has only Australian citizenship i dont see how we can call her a traitor for keeping close ties to China even if they are a bunch of stinking reds.
Glen at 411
You’re spot on. Hockey looks anything but gutted.
I think China revokes your citizenship if you take citizenship in another country… not 100% sure though
Glen, have you been to China? Anywhere less “red” is hard to imagine. It’s an authoritarian crony capitalist state, rather like a giant Singapore, only more corrupt. They only keep calling it “communist” out of nostalgia.
Glen,
That buy lots of our raw materials and whose investments underpin our prosperous lifestyle.
And according to Julie Bishop it was the Howard government that promoted our ties with China.
I knew he was the Manchurian candidate
Why do we all like Mesmerelda so much?
Glen, I don’t know if you think this comment is funny. I think it’s extremely offensive language and you should be given a warning from the moderator.
Adam, the only reason the Reds are still in power in China is that they liberalised their economy without liberalising political power.
Yes the Chinese Communists are Communists in name but they are still Reds.
are they still under the bed?
No but id feel alot safer if they were a Democracy…
Is that because a democracy wont attack another country without valid well established reasons Glen?
BH, i was very proud of my son in that show, he’s hot on about the death penalty {the exact opposite to me} but he came across better than any of us and yet i’m used to these shows, i guess it gets to be a bit like a robot, you press the on button and say whatever they want you to say and the press the off button, it’s taken me a bit longer to pick up the pieces this time, i’ve had to take the attitude that whatever happens happens, my John did very well, he explains it as “think of your worse nightmares–thats our reality, you couldnt begin to imagine our nightmares”
sorry for digressing William.
Yes.
Democracies are far less likely to go to war against each other.
How likely is it that Australia and New Zealand would fight a war against each other??
Oh where is that wonderful Youtube parody clip about Australia invading NZ?
Glen are you just stirring or do you really believe that tripe?
Even the Americans wouldn’t criticise the Chinese in such a ham-fisted way right now, because they are desperate to borrow Chinese money to finance their bank bail out.
It seems the opposition is quite prepared to sell out our national interest in some “Dr Strangelove” type strategy that imagines that if we go into recession everyone will blame the new government and automatically love Malcolm at the next election. I can jsut imagine their strategy when they next vote against a budget bill “we had to destroy the Australian economy in order to save it from Labor”.
At least the Liberals are internaly consistent though. They seem quite prepared to destroy their own party as well, in order to prevent the wrong people being in charge.
444 – you just might be surprised Glen.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm
Here is Wong’s Pew Center speech from yesterday. (Another suspiciously oriental-type person, by the way).
http://www.environment.gov.au/minister/wong/2009/sp20090330.html
Read and learn. There will be questions this evening.
Democracy didn’t stop the three idiots from invading Iraq without cause or evidence.
Nothing new there either – students of history will remember the Athenian senate voting to commit all sorts of attrocities during the Peloponesian War in a nice democratic fashion. A list of all the wars started by democracies would be very long indeed. Democracy doesn’t stop you doing evil, it just gives you a chance of removing the evil-doer at the next election.
GB 444
Snap! – great list on your post BTW – a few there I didn’t know.
There are rebuttals in this but …. it is debateable.
Invading New Zealand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hlFcnkGY-o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Q36-9UUQE&feature=related
Gary most of that he has qualifications with all of that.
But seriously now WW1 was not started by democratic states…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory
Democratic Peace Theory is sound.
453 – exactly what I said Glen but it is not as clear cut as you make out.
Democratic Peace Theory.
Sounds like a Kumbayah jug band from the 70s.
Mr. historian, who am i to argue against this. they are so nostalgic about the revolution, the young-uns are actually turning the old propaganda, revolutionary songs into syrupy pop songs.
If Mao is still in his grave, he would start another cultural revolution to teach these young-uns a lesson in meddling with the sacred revolution. No effing respect.
I wonder if Malcolm will like this? Barnaby will go feral.
Well, the Libs complained Swan had over reacted and was spooked when he vetoed the last business transaction, implying that he jumped in to quell the tide of criticism that Australia was getting too close to China. How will they spin this? We’re getting too close to China?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25270617-601,00.html
Will Ms Bishop apologise for her actions or will Turnbull sack her for misleading parliament.
Democratic peace Theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Alan Kohler on ABC News said that Macquarie Communications broadcasts the ABC. When did the former Govt. sell off the ABC’s transmitters?
Is it in the national interest that a Canadian Pension Fund owns the transmission facilities of “our ABC”?
ru,
Can’t wait for the Madame Canuk theory to emerge.
Those two sentences keep Fitzgibbon in his job.
And reveal Bishop (as if any more evidence was needed) is a carping joke.
Watching 7:30 Report – the “Public Policy” guy for Testra is perhaps the worst “public” face any company could coe up with – he is stiff and monotone. You’d think they would have someone a bit better to sell their line.
Grog
The Optus guy was pretty cocky – will Malcolm say the Govt. is too close to Singapore.
To be fair to Bishop, she was acting in the interests of her constituents, people who are precluded from speaking publically themselves (ADF personnel). If the information they gave her was wrong, she should acknowledge that, but I don’t think she should be condemned. Turnbull is another matter, since he beat this fairly trivial matter up into a very personal attack on Fitzgibbon’s competence which has turned out to be groundless.
Adam
I’d argue that the glass is about 1/4 full. There’s a lot of CO2 in the glass.
Dr Good
You could argue that the 5% is a completely arbitrary number. The argument would be the same with 0%, 2% or -5%.
“No-one is more mistaken than the man who does nothing because he can only do a little.”
Every small amount of pressure on the bigger countries makes a difference. We have bucked the trend set by the EU (whose 20% might be rubbery) but we have generally downgraded expectations.
I should also point out that Rudd’s figure of a 25% per capita reduction are also wrong now because he has cut immigration, so our population won’t increase as much as he said.
Diogs,
“I’d argue that the glass is about 1/4 full. There’s a lot of CO2 in the glass”.
Must be all your hot air!
On a more immediate problem.the G20 looks to be in all sorts of problems with a fairly bizarre sight of right leaning groups of countries holding the leftist Obama’s and Brown’s feet to the fire to bring in more banking regulation, including an international regulator.
Perhaps Adam can explain the geopolitics of this one. I’m assuming that the countries overall position in the spectrum has trumped the leaders.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25270902-5005962,00.html
Especially this in the second paragragh:
]there were no instances where SAS soldiers received no money.]
As a bit of a stir I’d be calling on turnbull to explain why he claimed that some defence personel were paid zero.
As a side issue = it makes you wonder about the scruples of some of those involved. It’s clear they were overpaid (based on allowances that they weren’t entitled to) and the department was simply recovering those monies. For those same individuals to then claim they were being ripped off is the height of dishonesty.
GG
I just knew that was coming and somehow I knew it would be you!
Adam
Bishop’s assertions in parliament were incorrect – this may be due to her recieving incorrect information as you stated.
But it means Ms Bishop must make a public apology to Fitzgibbon – although I would not hold my breath.
Adam, Bishop had a pay slip that that she could have passed on to the minister. It was their major piece of evidence, She’s as guilty as hell.
I am an Australian citizen who was born and raised in China. It is disheartening to observe the Fitzgibbon/Liu witchhunt over the past few days. I know neither Joel Fitzgibbon (probably a good thing), nor Helen Liu. I cannot, however, help but sympathising with them.
Apparently, donating to earthquake relief and being a member of an organisation to promote China are suggestive of spy activity. Can one expect a similar response from certain politicians and individuals masquerading as “journalists” if the person in question is of Japanese or Italian heritage? If not, what relegated us to second citizen status? Does being ethinicity strip one of the right to be presumed innnocent until proven guilty given that not even one iota of evidence indicating that Australian national interest was ever compromised was ever found? Additionally, what massage did this saga send to the estimated more than half a million Chinese Australians? That they can sell honey chicken but should not become rich and influential? Since when did not forgetting one’s origin become a criminal offence?
One cannot escape the conclution that an incredible amount of paranoia and bias still exist in the Australian community with regard to China and Chinese in general. These sentiments are like a virus remaining dormant but ready to explode with deadly virulence if triggered. This is especially dismaying because this is the community that I will serve for the rest of my life
*”Does being of Chinese ethinicity…” and “second-class citizen”, sorry.
robot
You’ve got plenty of support here. Almost unanimously I’d say (we don’t really count Glen). There’s plenty out there who think like us. The bastards are out of power and will stay there for a long time.
Diogs,
No one expects……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A
It shows the limitations of the terms “left” and “right”, doesn’t it? Sarkozy and Merkel are conservatives, but in the European etatiste tradition. French Gaullists and German Christian Democrats have never accepted the “Anglo-Saxon” doctrines of the free market. Obama, Brown and Rudd are social democrats (called liberals in the US), but they come from the Anglo-Saxon tradition of economic liberalism. So even in the current crisis they are reluectant to go down the European path of greater state control of the free market than they have already gone. I agree with them, but I doubt this is a defensible position in the court of world opinion right now.
Dio read my comments before passing sentence, id really prefer it if you didnt always tar and feather me in your tory witch hunts….
robot
Don’t confuse the ravings of the rabble party as the views of Australians. Turnbull is desparate as he sees his dream evaporate.
Glen,
Surprise us and say something reasonable about robot’s posts.
Ok, they’ve a lot of nerve. Ragging on FG and now they want some stuff …. Yeah, I know that KPMG said this and not the military but the juxtaposition of the “request” isn’t a good look imho.
The various tactics adopted by the Murdoch & ABC Liberal Party (MALP) seem to be more risky to their own credibility than to the Labor party.
From cardboard cutouts and automatic gainsaying on most issues, flip flopping from support to oppose, blocking things in the Senate, attacking a stimulus package and the consistent use of negative hyperbole….it has done nothing except permanently damage their support base.
The Rudd government was always going to get a honeymoon and by now their support levels should have begun to fade. But I reckon that MALP antics have had extended the honeymoon and switched voters over permanently to Labor.
You would have to think that their figures would have been better if they had basically nodded their heads and shut up for a year.
I think the problem is that when you try to polarise the electorate with an issue(s) while you have a very popular PM you are forcing them to make a decision, to decide if they support the PM on the issue or agin him….they will likely jump in behind their popular person. It simply solidifies his support. It is even worse when there is an unacceptable alternative which Turnbull/Nelson are seen to be.
The MALP have not yet rebuilt their credibility which they should do before trying to attack the Govt.
The China dog whistle is a very risky thing. If the recession deepens as it probably will before their is recovery people will only be thinking about their jobs and economic health. China will be what they hope can save them. None will be worrying about Chinese investment, on the contrary. Rudd’s expertise their will put in a good spot. The MALP’s dog whistling will put them in a worse spot.
Who knows how much effect this China dog whistling is having on the electorate. If it does have any it will be very short term and in the long run it only highlights Rudd’s positive expertise there.
The current exercise is to take focus off Rudd overseas. But that is pointless. His 74% support makes it a moot point. If anything it sets the MALP up for a bigger hit later.
You would hope Australians have been inoculated against dog whistling by now, but we will have to wait and see.
Glen
It was referring to the Chinese as a “bunch of stinking reds” that I found offensive.
Adam
Sarkozy actually said that he blamed “Anglo-Saxons”, which is not only racist, sort of, but just plain dumb. The UK and US are much more multicultural than France and to blame one group of them beggars belief. If he said he blamed “Jews”, there would be a riot.
GG
I dont think anybody should pass sentence on any Australian especially when there is no evidence to back it up.
It is the same witch hunt mentality that the MSM used against the head of Pacific Brands. They are out for a story and they dont give a stuff who’s name they drag in the mud.
Fitzgibbon is to blame for not declaring his trips, it should not reflect on Ms Liu.
Robot, blame it on Admiral Zhen Ho. He came ashore near Broome in 1421. Made “friends” with Aborigenes. From that day, the Chinese and the Aborigenes have been discriminated ever since.
Comment on Shanahan’s article, apologies if this bloke is a PB’r, I’ve stolen your thunder …..
Dio i dislike the Communist Party of China i dont hate Chinese people.
Glen
Fair enough. I was a bit surprised. Your PB retraining was going so well. (Mine’s going pretty well too. “Labor is good, Liberal is bad. Why rock the boat?”)
Your comment just used the phrase “links to China” which was open to interpretation.
If I were a Cartoonist I would be drawing a picture of Turnbull an a bedraggled old dog sitting in the corner….’common boy, just one more time’.
I should have been more precise.
But if you think i will be voting for Rudd next year i think you may be disappointed about as much as I will be on election night.
It is sad that the only Tories who post on here are GP and myself.
Where are all the Young Libs??? They should be tech savy.
Glen,
Fitzgibbon apologised for not declaring his trips.
Why is Helen Liu in the frame? Why are Bishop, Abbott and Turnbull pumping the tyres on this egg beater of a story?
Libs dogwhistling their evr diminishing supporter base?
From this article –
comes this line as follows …..
This letter went out today. Amongst contact details provided for individuals to submit any information, confidentially if needed, was included the legal justification for this specific review of the breaches which occured –> Section 8(2) of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Act 1986 (the IGIS Act).
Notabley, they’ve also went to pains to point out that “protections and immunities” will be offered if the information supplied warrants such action.
GG if you want to know it is because Andrews and Bishop have not done what they said they would do and actually conduct a proper overview of our loss in 2007 and produce some policies. They have failed and so some have engaged in dogwhistling instead of coming up with policy.
Turnbull will be booted after 2010 if we go further downhill.
Glen, I spit out my coffee, you are really funny
He won’t be leading the Libs at the next election unless Rudd calls an early one
I don’t think the Libs position could get much worse. It is almost at rusted on level now. It is the swinging voters the Libs must convince they are worth tossing out Rudd Labor for.
To do that they need credibility. It won’t matter how many stuff ups Rudd makes if their is none they think any better around.
Insight had Conroy on, same ground as question and answer. According to Conroy censorship on the net is going to be less….. if he can get it though the senate.
Arrr let it go through, the kids may as well learn about proxy servers and VPN’s at a young age.
Just finished reading the KPMG report – the Libs should be condemned. It appears that 1 SAS soldier was docked $172.40 after Fitzgibbon told Defence to stop.
What odds Turnbull will conveniently forget about SAS pay in the future?
What chance is their of the MSM actually bringing the issue to the fore?
Surely you could find 2 better poeple to do the review?
You are being rather too fair Adam. She went way over the top, and stuffed up even though she had the pay slip in her hand. That she couldn’t understand the information she held is not the fault of those who gave it to her. It’s like saying the Sunday Telegraph isn’t to blame for publishing the pics of “Hanson”.
“Anglo-Saxon” is an accepted term in French politics. It means broadly “economic liberalism combined with multilateralist foreign policy.” It is a very rude word in French politics, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterise it as racist. It’s not an argument about Anglo-Saxons as a “race” (is there such a thing?), it’s about a tradition of Anglo-American policy.
I can understand why he doesn’t want to make the list public, the filter isn’t going to work a list would make accessing the material easier. But it is the internet, it is a list of blocked sights so all ISP’s will have to have access to it to the list. Sights do get hacked. Bright idea, we could remove the risk of list publication by not creating the list.
TP on these figures all we have left are the rusted ons like yours truly.
That is the trouble with the Tories we usually never get people to want to vote for us we have to wait for Labor to stuff things up so bad they come running back.
We need to copy what Cameron is doing in the UK and maybe even Harper in Canada these are two people who lead successful governments/oppositions and we are a laughing stock and a disgrace to the Tory cause around the world.
I am surprised that Labor has been so gentle on the Libs with their dog whistling. Not even a reference to ‘Red’s under the bed’ come back, or to McCarthyism or the pollitics of fear.
I guess they didn’t want to make it an issue.
Glen
I think the contrary. The results are in. But, the incumbants don’t like the report. A few of the sensible ones got out last year and Nelson and Georgio have pulled the pin. But what about Costello, Abbott, Tuckey, Bronwyn Bishop, Minchin and Ruddock? Even Andrew should consider his position.
Do you think any of these has beens are going to be vital players in the next Liberal Government?
Compounding your problems, Julie Bishop has managed to incinerate her career through sheer incompetence. Turnbull hasn’t the people skills to unite the party.
Now Hockey is being touted as the next big thing. My advice to Joe is stay where you are. Jumping on the escalator now will take you to oblivion.
TP, they don’t need to, the polls are doing it for them. The electorate is smart enough to figure this out and Labor are smart enough to let them do it
…. (check back to the Canberra Times article I posted a link to earlier today, its the first poll I’ve seen that specifically mentions people being pissed off at the dog whistling …)
Cameron still hasn’t been elected. Queensland?
Rudd, Gillard, Swan, Tanner and Wong are so preoccupied with saving the world right now that they are barely even aware of Turnbull’s existence. They have staffers to keep track of that kind of stuff. Parliament doesn’t sit for another six weeks so they don’t even have to pretend to be interested in his carryings-on. As Keating used to say: “The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.”
GG, the King has said so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av8QqyK4Lac
I think Tanner, Swan and Gillard have all been pretty strong on it.
David Cameron fredn, he’s not elected yet but he will be British PM in a years time.
Adam
According to Wiki you are perfectly correct. The French use the term in a very specific sense to denote the Anglosphere.
Adam,
Is it as rude as calling the other side “cheese eating surrender monkeys”?
Glen similar to your Queensland confidence. But as GB Labor were party to the willing I really don’t care, they are the last man standing.
robot
As others have said, the majority here find turnbulls conduct regarding this matter to be vile.
He is desperate and his leadership is failing big time. But this matter is going to blow up in his face big time.
I do not think the majority of australians will put up with such crap from the liberals anymore.
Fredn Brown is more boring than the Borg, he’s a goner.
GG
Churchill actually proposed joining France and GB into one nation during WW2 but the French rejected the idea.
Get used to it. Resistance is futile.
I think the French have had the last laugh over that one. Bush is gone and disgraced, La France is still there. They were right about Iraq, right about deregulation, right about just about everything. Soon they’ll be asking for Louisiana back.
And I cannot resist it, just one more time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs
Glen,
And I bet he proposed calling it England.
The French and the Brits have been waging undeclared and declared war for a thousand years.
Uniting them as one country would be like combining all the outlaw motorcycle gangs.
CNN Live (pay TV) are showing Gordon Brown’s speech (or parts of it) at St Paul’s Cathederal and they said Australian PM Kevin Rudd will be attending. Well at least we got a mention
I just don’t understand Turnbull. Reds under the bed went out in the 60’s. Chine is now a capitalist country with an unsustainable political system that buys a lot of our stuff, populated by people that 5% of out population are related to. It’s not as if you can’t visit the place.
Brown’s opening words
“With my friend Kevin Rudd Pm of Australia I come here to St Pauls Cathederal…”
he then went on to say there was no one he could think of that he’d rather have there with him than Kev and what a great leader he was etc and the crowd gave a round of applause for our boy
Brown obviously hopes The Kevin’s phenominal charisma will rub off on him
Vera,
It seems the Brit Labor Government are riffing off Rudd as the very model of a modern PM and trying to attach themselves to his star.
Can’t say I blame them.
Could be Cameron for the knackery. ( Glen will be desolate).
Ah Groundskeeper Willie, who’d a thought such a line would become so big.
I would just about eat my hat if Cameron lost in 2010.
Don’t worry, he doens’t understand it himself. He must lie awake at nights wondering:
I went to the Newcastle show on Saturday night as usual lots of young people enjoying themselves. One thing I noticed was how many groups of them contained kids of Asian descent. Obviously the young are not as racist as some oldies. These Kids may not vote at the next election but the will at the one after that, and the one after that. The Libs are dreading on dangerous ground.
P#ssing down here, so heavy and loud I can’t hear what Gordy’s saying!
Grog,
It all went wrong when he fell into Rudds’s treatise about neo Liberalism and ended up abusing his opponents spouse.
It went even wronger when he got spooked by Costello over IR.
Since then he has been trying to prove his right wing credentials. His problem is that the right in the party will never accept him, he has betrayed the constuency he actually represents and totally confused the electorate about who he is and what he stands for.
Nelson forever Turnbull never lol
I would just about eat my hat if Cameron lost in 2010.
Not quite ready to put it on the line?
But seriously how could you bet on Brown??
I mean seriously it is Cameron’s to lose.
I’m about 75% sure Cameron will win when it gets to 90% ill eat my hat if he loses.
Glen,
Is that hat a sombrero or a baseball cap?
I’m sure the PB team will help you with flavouring and garnishes btw.
Kev just got up to make his speech after Brown finished but the buggers at CNN aren’t showing it !
sombrero
Yep, hard to see him do it.
Wonder what odds you’d get for a double of Brown and Reese? Write your own ticket I’d suspect.
It’s astonishing how anti-Asian racism has virtually disappeared from Australian life over the last decade or so. The reason is obvious. Now we have new and much more scary foreigners to dislike: MGBs. Asians rapidly cease to be foreign once they’ve been here a few years. Also they don’t try to blow us up or carry on about jihad or operate rape gangs.
Have to say Rudd read his man like a cheap novel there. He put out an intellectual debate knowing full well Turnbull wouldn’t be able to resist trying to show that he is smarter, and thus got totally sucked into a debate he should have not gone near with a barge pole.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/libyas-gadhafi-hurls-insults-at-saudi-king-20090331-9h8z.html
With a friend like that. Why do the Arabs need another enemy. Single handedly Gadhafi has ensured disunity among the Arabs continues. Happy days for Bibi.
Adam in Canberra
Posted Tuesday, March 31, 2009 at 9:48 pm | Permalink
And nor does the average Muslim, Adam you really do need counseling.
lock in another interest rate cut:
http://www.asx.com.au/sfe/targetratetracker.htm
Finns,
Sounds like the boasts of certain football teams during the pre season. We’re fitter than ever, we’ve recruited well, our recruits are potential champions and we’ve never been more united.
Does Gadafi barrack for Richmond?
Don’t bother biting. On this issue, Adam goes into Tabitha mode.
Just remember who will have the finger on the trigger next year when Iran (may have nuclear weapons) lol good luck Obama with Bibi anything could happen.
Grog
I know, some of his posts on the subject have really have been disgraceful.
And Glen try to remember which country has actually used Nuclear weapons!
I hear QLD and the NT are now joining SA and the premier state NSW in banning bikie gangs. Well good on them. If they go round in motor bikes, wear leather jackets (especially with logos) and jeans, lock them up. They can play bikies behind bars.
Gadafi king of kings? They should cut off his crown jewels.
fredn,
You seem to love a snipe. Please tell us your views on the great geo political battles confronting us all and how they would possibly be implemented.
Centre as long as they end up in front of a judge I’m all for it.
Well fredn, Bibi still wont take off airstrikes as an option against Iran…that is what i meant by finger on the trigger, of course Israel could use nuclear weapons but why would they bother.
GG, i dont believe there is a team in the A-League calls Richmond. Aerial Ping Pong maybe? Oh no, not the effing chinese again.
Loved Godaffi’s rakish hat angle! Potential rap star for sure.
He looks like a Pimp.
There was a poll on Sky whether Turnbull should be replaced before the May budget lol. I reckon the Libs best performer since they lost the election is Greg Hunt. But the Party will have to wait until he is old enough to leave school before he can lead it.
Well effendis, you can agree or disagree with me, but that’s the reason why anti-Asian racism has largely disappeared in Australia. When a real foreign threat comes long, people forget about illusory foreign threats.
*Salaam alaykum*
Wait till his voice breaks, give Hockey ago and then Hunt will wipe the floor with Julia in 2016…
The point Adam is making is that most people who were racist towards Asians now fear Muslims more and think Asians arent so bad by comparison.
Glen,
Unfortunately with a name like Hunt, Mike will never be PM.
If any Victorian MP could become a Prime Minister one day it is Greg Hunt.
So says Glen.
Most Muslims are Asians.
All I can think about when i think of Hunt is that disasterous appearence on the 730 report
There you are. it just goes to show there is hope for everyone and everything. Former Indonesian General Prabowo Subianto is running for Indonesian President this year under the banner of “Change you can believe in for Indonesia” and he is now a champion of democracy. He even exploits Obama brand in his election advertisement.
http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au/stories/200902/2482011.htm
Prabowo who was the son-in-law of Pres. Suharto and was accused of human rights abuses during the last chaotic days of the Suharto regime. Subsequently, he was sacked from the Army and still barred from entering the USA.
Glen, your generosity and kindness are unbound. The Asians really should get down on their bended knees and thanking you for their existence.
I wonder what Indonesia would be like if the PKI had got into power?
Glen would be in the labour camp in Irian Jaya.
disastrous appearance. I think this is the one
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2284712.htm
Kerry can be so cruel.
Greg Hunt is a bit like Christopher Pyne in the “turn off” stakes. That is, he’s got one of those oh so annoying voices.
Greensborough
I don’t think it is all clear cut.
I’ve done a lot of travel, more than I wanted to, my conclusion, no matter what the culture, no matter what the country the average person wants to bring up his kids and live a peacefull life.
Western culture is far from innocent, there is no justification for colonialism. Many of the problems we face, western society produced. If you want to take Iran we supported an unpopular dictator, it required the only independent force in the country to do him in, result increased religious power. The Taliban, we funded them we taught them how to fight, Pakistan supported them we reap the rewards, the consequences.
China ( a long time ago I know) we humiliated the imperial power, what was there sin, an attempt to stop the importation of opium.
No, if you look at the seedy side of western civilization we have a lot of skeletons, heck if you want to, you can cast the current tension between the west and the middle east as a rerun of the crusades, do you think we have anything to be proud of there.
Europe and it’s wars have cause a lot of misery. Heck if it wasn’t for Europe’s anti anti-semitism there would be no Israel.
I think a little bit more understanding a little less saber rattling would go a long way.
One of the reasons reds under the beds falls flat in 2009 is the large Chinese population in this country. Attempt such as Adam to stir hatred towards Muslim population in the end will also fall flat for the very same reason. They will have children they will get a political voice.
I think an attempt by any political party to denigrate any group in this country is short sight, it tears at the social fabric and loses votes.
I remember being asked some 20 years ago at baptist church meeting ( they call in kindergarten) in good old Georgia USA, what is Australia’s attitude to Muslims. I said we are a multicultural society, you can’t take religion too seriously if it’s going to work. It required a lot of careful use of words to calm them down, I hope we never see such nonsense in this country, that muslims are accepted into our society.
Wave after wave of immigration has initially been treated with suspicion and then accepted. I don;’t expect the outcome for immigrants form Muslim countries to be any different. There will be shit on the way.
BK what like Julia Gillard’s???
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7974190.stm
Their unemployment rate is 8.2% so I guess this is one attitude that will really help your country by helping the international economy.
PAAPTSEF @ 564, yes I recall the interview but he had to follow the party script then and the problem was that nobody knew what the party script was.
I think Hunt may be the only one there at the moment who could make the Liberals at least somewhat competitive. But in the one after next election.
Yes he can Glen but he didn’t have to bother, Hunt did it all by himself.
Pyne’s voice is unelectable
He would have the same problem right now wouldn’t he, Centre?
Glen.
Julia sounds mature
No she sounds like a whinger she has such an off putting nasal voice that is just about as unelectable as Pynes.
But Glen, she HAS been elected to a very high office.
Only because of Rudd, she destroyed Latham with medicare gold she was kept in her box during the election.
re 578, no I don’t think so. I think he MAY have the ability to formulate decent policy to the extent where the party may be able to stick to it and take it to an election?
Glen. I’ll give you that one on Medicare Gold.
But she has more chance of being PM than Bishop or Pyne or even Hunt ill give you that.
Thanks Glen. Let’s call it a draw.
And France’s stance was aimed at…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/
re 583, I guess his party could try something new if they really tried
Glen: I don’t mind Greg Hunt, and what happened to Bruce Billson, he seemed to me a nice bloke.
However, I guess when Turnball inevitably falls over, the party will turn to Costello.
I hope everyone realises what a compliment Adam’s term for us was. The effendis are reputed to be the only group of intellectuals whose closeted and privileged upbringing actually resulted in a decent functioning group of leaders. We’ll take it as a back-handed compliment.
On a sort of related matter, we were talking about the possible evolutionary advantage of having a certain number of homosexuals in the population. I’m reading a book that quite persuasively argues that the Allies would have lost WWII, or it would have lasted 3 more years, if it weren’t for one homosexual man.
Turing cracked the Enigma Code, well re-cracked it because a Pole had done it before in a simpler form and the Poms didn’t want him at Bletchley Park, and did more for the war effort than anyone. Which sort of makes you wonder why they hounded him to death literally when his homosexuality became widely known.
On closer inspection, I’ll say Hunter probably won’t be abolished.
The ten north/central coast seats from Richmond down to Robertson (I’m including non-coastal Charlton) add up to 9.8 quotas. So Hunter would only need to shed, say, the remainder of Maitland council to make that a round 10.
Hunter would then be reoriented westward or northward to compensate, perhaps including Mudgee, Coonabarabran and Gunnedah.
Diogs it’s a coincidence. Knowing Adam he’s telling us all to go effing
Here is an Idea for debate. A global directly elected parliament.
OT for the AFL fans ….
i.e. An Asian parliament
Julie talking about footy, where’s vera? Who do the Bunnies play next week? No way in this universe am I going to let someone in a skirt beat me in the end.
Not sure Centre ….. she was on earlier whinging about the rain you are all having up in Sydney tonight. Maybe a leak in the roof somewhere?
….. send us some of your rain, we need it here in Perth. I’ve been here now 2 months and have seen rain maybe 3 or 4 times? It is really dry 
That’s what happens when there is a Liberal Government
Hahahahahaha
Talk about building a straw man. Rudd explained his reason and in fact would have still been sitting next to her even with the change of seating.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/coalition-accused-of-race-politics-20090331-9ias.html
Talk about building a straw man. Rudd explained his reason and in fact would have still been sitting next to her even with the change of seating.]
Ah The Age, going back to the future with their links to the Liberal Party :_) Will they next resurrect Radio 3XY and the National First 50 ?
comedy gold
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/01/2531575.htm
Climate Minister Wong’s talk at the Pew Centre is a very, very good speech.
She is wasted on a dud 5% ETS, and 15% by 2020. So is Rudd’s 74%.
After the US kick-started western European economies with the Marshall Plan, the Europeans owe the US, big time. They will probably never get a better opportunity to pay back the favour. I would not be holding my breath.
Other than the issues raised above, there is also a fair bit of European muttering about the Bretton Woods Agreement. The ongoing role of the US dollar is a facet of the heavier regulation being sought by Sarkosy and Merkel. The recent US decision to print an extra $1trillion would not be helping to get any sort of large financial kicker out of the G20. Perhaps they might cook up an exchange of ‘greater regulation’ for a bit more money in the pot? One difficulty is that China is just about the only player with the ready. Most of the rest are already significantly into hock and inflation would have to be a worry.
Yes it’s a pity they have to face political reality ie: the senate
Maybe Turnbull should have copied the GOP pretend budget.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2009/03/31/the_gops_pretend_budget/
PAAPTSEF
Unfortunately, we may never get to know what the Senate would have done.
15% for an extremely wealthy country like Australia is a very poor example and a very poor opening gambit in to the world negotiations.
The real problem is that there is a huge disconnect between the discussion about the implications of any 5%-15% ETS, and the scale and speed of the issues facing us as a result of Global Warming. A 74% PM, and a gifted Climate Change Minister had (and still have) it as option to close that policy-discussion gap.
Nothing that only looks like it might be something is not better than nothing. It is worse than nothing because it encourages people to think that all is hunky dory.
Rudd appoints two to the board at ABC.
About time.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-puts-stamp-on-abc-board-with-two-appointments-20090331-9ib1.html?page=-1
US media is mostly a waste of time. It is entertainment or politicking. Just about everything is someone with an axe to grind. Good unadulterated pieces are hard to find. Much like the Murdoch media in Australia, mostly a waste of time and money.
Who cares if these guys go down the drain if it means they have to compete on-line with non corporate current affair opinion and analysis?
Partisan crap, even if it is for Labor, is boring really. And is only satisfying in that it counters the plethora of right wing crap.
The Channel 9 Morning show has regular Andrew Bolt and other sundry Murdoch right wingers with Steffan-whoeverhisname-ovic who all try to sell down the government. In fact Steffan… gets a bit strained in his attempts to undermine the govt. In any case I gave up watching Channel 9 because of that partisan nonsense.
Channel 7 with Koche is at least more even, less strained and less toxic and much less politics.
I am not surprised Channel 9 is failing.
The ABC I hardly bother with any more especially the on-line nonsense seemingly run by a Gheghis Khan’s drag queen concubine.
Well it appears unlikely she will be a Liberal Party rag doll,that has to be a positive. She might even bring some journalistic standards to some areas.
AND hopefully arrange a clean out of the Howard Cockroaches.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2222596.htm
dogma
One of them has been quick out of the blocks:
‘Mr Lynch said he had no time for accusations against the ABC of left-wing bias.’
Oh oh. House prices in the US continue crashing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/economy/01econ.html?_r=1&hp
This is not good news at all from the USA. Another 3rd to go?
The news is bad but the US Markets are climbing and the Aussie dollar getting stronger.
Boerwar, yep, I read that, he will have to experience it himself – at the same time he probably won’t hear about right wing bias too. The other appointee has a journo background unlike JA who is a opinion writer rather than a journo.
Ah hopefuly balance
Oooh, I wish I were a subbie, I really do:
‘Albrechtson goes barking mad at Rudd’s dog whistle!’
After eleven years of failing to spot, or condemn, a single one of the Howard Governments’ racist or xenephobic dog whistles, dog whistles to flag thugs, and dog whistles to fringe religious fruitcakes, Albrechtson has finally spotted a dog whistle.
Yes, that sinful, sinful Rudd is dog whistling. And Albrechtson reacts as if she had been bitten on the ars* by a rabid German Shepherd:
‘His (Rudd’s) failure to mention the independent, non-partisan CIS and his shift on economic rationalism reveals a politician driven by political expediency rather than fundamental principles. Dog-whistling to the Left, he has politicised and polarised the economic debate as an election strategy to fight a new culture war.’
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/hayek_hatred_a_handy_dog_whistle/
Of course it could also mean that Rudd has noticed something odd about the world’s financial sitution lately and is capable of shifting ground to incorporate new realities.
Memo Ms Albrechtson: Devil-worshipping Howard is sooo passe. Howard is gone. His Government is gone. His seat is gone. His Party is gone. The Global Financial Crisis is a direct result of his ideology, which is also gone (for all money, as it were). The things that have not gone are a couple of failed wars.
Breaking News from the People Daily:
There is a report coming off Beijing that Pres. Hu is going to use the G20 Summit to announce that China is making an offer to buy a majority stake in Australia and Kevin Rudd will be appointed as its first CEO.
http://english.people.com.cn/90002/96808/6624143.html
TP 613
That article may be a little pesimistic but it is true that there is more bad news in their housing market to come. The trend of “resetting” sub-prime mortgages is not finished. Typically they “reset” to higher (often unpayable) mortgage rates one or two years after commencement. The last batch written before things went bad in 2007 does not reset till this year. So there will be many more mortgage failures this year as well. It shuld stop by the end of this calendar year, because after late 2007 US banks finally stopped selling them on such dubious terms.
However I don’t think that automatically means their prices will sink further. The bottom has already fallen out of the market, in the vulnerable markets. But they probably won’t recover till this clears.
You can see the Case Schiller Index of US House Prices here:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/case-shiller-index-falls-19/
Age columnist Peter Costello reviews the 2020 summit.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/rudds-grand-talk-fest-proves-all-process-and-no-outcome-20090331-9i8m.html?page=-1
TP,
“The ABC I hardly bother with any more especially the on-line nonsense seemingly run by a Gheghis Khan’s drag queen concubine”.
Love it!
Speaking of the ABC there was a headline on their late news bulletin (8.30 headliens) last night I found particularly disagreeable. It reported the governor of the Reseve Bank warning of a probably recession as indicating the failure of the stimulus package! WTF? Apart from not being true, that is not what the governor said. The newsreader was jsut reading, but I’d love to know which Liberal stooge employed at public expense in “our ABC” wrote that line.
TP, The most balanced even handed journalist for me is Paul Bongiorno on Channel 10. He doesn’t resort to sarcasm or ridicule (although occasional, moderate doses of either can be appropriate) but instead speaks fairly and plainly and doesn’t allow his ego to get in the way. I heard him on radio last week (I don’t get time to see much of him on 10) and he was like a breath of fresh air. He’d be a good replacement for Chris Uhlman who would be better suited to Channel 9.
Socrates,
Try this one
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2531341.htm
for a total disconnect between the interviewer and interviewee. PM’s Stephen McDonell not even in the same book as Simon Crean, let alone on the same page.
Steve K
I completely agree about Bongiorno. I normally only watch Ch 10 news for logistic reasons. I’m always scratching my head when people here complain about MSM anti-left bias. He’s absolutely straight down the line. I actually find the three major TV channels are pretty fair in politics.
A little on U.S politics:
1. It seems that Obama might soon have his 59th senate seat. A court decision to be handed down later today will make it more likely that Democrat Al Franken’s victory in the Minnesotta senate race is confirmed.
2. There’s a special election today in a New York state congressional seat.
620,
Funny, I missed the announcement of the by-election in Higgins
Netanyahu showing his claws …..
On the OO website there’s a pic of Obamah arriving in London and the caption reads
Has the Presidential plane been renamed? It used to be Airforce One.
Airforce One is the plane, Marine One is the helicopter.
Lindsay Tanner will be on 2UE at 9.30. You can listen here
http://www.2ue.com.au
…debating Tony Abbott no less
631, thanks for the heads up and thanks for the link. Normally something like this would pass me by at 6:30am and just as much for the time difference as not knowing what/where to link up to hear it.
Sounds like they are running a little late
Jack the Insider makes an interesting, and unproven, point.
I’m not sure if it’s true but the furry one could do a regression analysis and tell us.
Just listening to nova 106.9 in Brisbane and they have a email petition running concerning the axing of medicare concerning IVF and birthing costs. Meshel was saying of all the emails sent to Kev and Swanny, who has responded ….. Peter Costello.
One could extrapolate that Peter Costello is getting all his ducks in a row, readying himself for a leadership challenge. Plus with the “mentoring” of Joe the bully Hockey, I would suggest that he is positioning himself for Deputy Opposition leader.
At least Abbot tells it like it is in the end – ” …. I’m always happy to keep on talking …. ”
Goodness, that’s one mother of a helicopter in the picture.
Regarding the ABC board, who is leaving? They say it will have seven members but there are six now and two have been appointed. Who is going? Albrechtson’s five year term expires in February 2010.
http://www.abc.net.au/corp/board/board_members.htm
In the USA is there a canoe called Boy Scout One?
Hmmmm ……
And Glen, I think you and others were commenting on Iran yesterday (vis a vis Israel). I think Pakistan will fly in under the radar and probably will be more of a problem for Australia, US et. al. than will Iran. Thing is the loonies in the Taliban who are daily gaining more control in Pakistan are more unstable than the govt. in Iran. Not saying that Iran isn’t a problem BUT that Pakistan will come to a head first.
Not as big as this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-12
The Presidential helicopter fleet is due to be replaced in the next couple of years by a European helicopter, a variant of the the AusgustaWestland EH101. There has been some speculation that the Airforce One fleet of 747’s might also be replaced by Airbus A380’s in a few years, but I think it’s far more likely that they’ll replace them with new 747-800’s (if Boeing ever actually builds them).
I did hear on a quiz show a while ago that the Presidential car is referred to as ‘Cadillac One’
oops – Augusta, not Ausgusta …
The difference is that Iran is a sovereign state, whose head of state has repeatedly threatened to exterminate a neighbouring state; a state which is clearly determined to build nuclear weapons which would enable it to carry out that threat, and may indeed be very close to achieving that. Neither Pakistan nor Afghanistan is a threat of quite the same kind. Now with Netanyahu threatening pre-emptive action against Iran (and not unreasonably) the danger level is rising rapidly. I suspect, however, that the Mullahs will use the forthcoming Iranian presidential election to get rid of Ahmedinejad and replace him with someone a bit less scary, and then to draw back from the brink.
Soon to be renamed ‘Toyota One’?
The view of the China daily re the “China debate”.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-03/31/content_7631973.htm
You wonder what happened to Malcolm Fraser’s party. The government which opened its arms to ten of thousands of poor war refugees from Vietnam. Just a memory.
I really thought this stuff was behind us when Howard was turfed out. Clearly I was wrong.
Adam
your Islamaphobia is showing
the most potent threat is Nth Korea.
The M-E is just a sideshow compared to what NK could do.
Pakistan is probably the No 2 threat, IF it descends into Civil War.
If oil supplies continue their downward trend Obama might finish up on Malvern Star One
I’ve read that the heavily armoured car he’ll have in London is known as The Beast.
Thinking about Aristotle’s comment:
“I really thought this stuff was behind us when Howard was turfed out. Clearly I was wrong.”
You were not alone in thinking this. Perhaps one danger we bloggers have is that we over-analyse and assume that the poiticians do the same. We consider what would be rational strategy for them but they just act on their prejudices. The number who are genuine political strategists may be few. Howard may have been a xenophobe as a tactic, but many of his backbenchers were the real thing I suspect.
So if after the 2007 election there were lots of moderates in marginal seats who lost, and lots of right wing nutbars in safe seats who stayed in office, the Liberals might well shift to the right in attitude, precisely when they need to go the other way. I don’t see it changing any time soon.
If that means it’s not a helicopter but a plane, there’s a simple explanation. The Presidents plane is usually providing by the US Airforce, thus Airforce One. The helicopter is usually provided by the Marines thus Marine One. However, if the President was going to use a Marine plane it would be called Marine One also.
I don’t believe the DPRK has actually threatened to nuke any of its neighbours, unless they attack it first. Iran has repteadly said that Israel must be destroyed. Also there are serious doubts that the DPRK really has the capacity to build an ICBM. Iran already has the rockets (thanks, Mr Putin), all it needs is the warhead, and it is working very hard to develop that.
Not quite.
Not quite.
Nah, maybe you read the headlines that say “Iran calls for destruction of Jews/Israel” based on press releases from the Israeli government, but you should probably read or listen to what he’s actually said, in Farsi.
Btw, I’m not a fan of Iran or it’s leader, but there’s enough reasons to dislike them without making stuff up.
Dennis criticises Rudd for not travelling enough. Basically it’s any straw in the wind time. He must really choke every time a new poll comes out.
“After promising to elevate relations with Latin America — including the key emerging economies and G20 members Brazil and Mexico — Mr Rudd has cancelled two trips to South America in the past six months.
Mr Rudd had indicated he would accept invitations to visit Brazil and Chile, at least, as part of his current trip to Washington and London but cancelled only two weeks before leaving for the US.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25272771-5013404,00.html
And while he (@ #644) didn’t know this, my 4 year uni degree is from University of Michigan in political science with a concentration in SW Asia, I learned those details a long time ago.
Which were the moderates that lost seats at the 2007 elections? I can’t think of any.
What? You mean Keven 737?
The Herald Sun has stooped to new lows given that Melbourne is a sports mad town and the heartland of the AFL
#*($&#*($&#*$&*(#&$*(#&$*( !!!
#655 Oz
There was the widely reported comment by the Iranian president that he will wipe Israel off the map. Was that false?
JulieM
check what todays date is
It’s been demonstrated to be false numerous times. The Iranian president was referring to the current “Zionist” government regime in Israel, not the people or country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation
The point that should stand out, and is pretty funny -
659
It’s an April Fool’s Day Joke – although it’s about as serious as the crap that’s been dished up by Fairfax on the subject of Rudd / China over the last week.
661 and 663,
My family knows this but outside of my family no one would have a clue. I was hiding behind the barn door when they passed out various personality traits in that period between lives. I didn’t get the one for “getting the joke”. When people talk about someone “playing the straight bat” (or words to that effect), I’m like that all the time and can’t help it.
That having been said, yes, I knew it is April 1st but my goodness, to joke on ANY topic which involves China (whether peripherally or not) over the last 10 days to 2 weeks is NOT even funny.
If the HS didn’t have such a bloody good footy section, I wouldn’t even bother with their website …….
#662
Okay, Oz. Our media has let us down pretty badly then. I heard fairly recently that he had repeated the comment.
Tax case still being argued today …
Gus and Steve K.
From the comments (which I’ve just been working through) it seems on the level, the commenters aren’t taking this as a joke ….
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/comments/0,22023,25273609-661,00.html
From one of the comments, this
and it is that sentiment, tying into the current crop of dogwhistling, that the HS is trying to tap into. This may or may not be on the level (would tend to think that it is judging from the venom of the comments) but the HS is trying to get the political results that it wants with the sports angle since the JF angle isn’t buying it with the electorate.
April Fulton- gedditt
and yes a pathetic attempt at “humour”
sad really
I don’t see the humour in it at all…
Don’t you just love it!
Quite often April Fool’s Day jokes lack humour. They are designed to fool you, not make you laugh.
April Fools is lame.
Unless it is the episode from the Simpsons, when Bart put the Duff Beer can in a paint mixer and then when Homer opened it the can exploded.
Hey Guys,
Just a quick one and excuse my ignorance, however a friend has received the ~$900 stim pac twice. Once as a student and again as a single parent (her tax clearly places her under the threshold).
Does this sound correct?
Jules
Yep Julian W – there are two different payments. So if you qualify for both you get both:
http://www.economicstimulusplan.gov.au/bonus_payment_details.htm
April f- BOOM!
lol
Centre
Hey and I don’t wear skirts!
Bunnies in New Zulland on Sunday. Not very confident about their chances
Juliem, we aren’t in Sydney, about 2 hours south of there
What about Rudd, how smart is he, he’s getting a bit of extra protection from the man upstairs just incase the rioters get out of hand at the G20 on Thursday. He spent yesterday hanging out in 2 Catherals. With his good mate Gordon Brown in one and with Prince Charles in the other.
674 – hang on, that stimpac is yet to be delivered. High Court challenge etc.
#679 GB
A caller to ABC radio talkback weeks ago said he’d received his payment. What’s been delayed by the challenge is a big 7 April mailout of cheques.
Gary I think the stimulus was being handed out in stages, I think the people with kids got it first, then the students and the rest were due to get theirs in April.
^^ That is correct.
Just found Howard’s Liberal Party training manual.
http://www.expotv.com/videos/reviews/18/168/AspenPetAristoSilentDogWhistle/164924
But if the target is not inherently scary then ask the media for some demonisation.
Yes, people can qualify on more than one front. Our family because of circumstances qualifies on all fronts so (legal challenge not successful) we will get 5 payments.
2 on account of our two kids
1 on account of being a single income family
2 on account of both adults earning less than 80,000
Kim Beasley telling it like it is.
http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/manchurian-candidates-and-learner-drivers-20090401-9iwd.html?page=-1
So this guy is a former National Party office bear who wants to get in before government payments are made (the remaining) because he is concerned about the government of Australia being able to give money to Australians. Because? Intellectual curiosity?
My wife, politically naive, seems to think that he is just trying to stop the stimulus package because it could hurt Australia and thus help Turnbull, based on the fact that him being a former National Party officer bearer, he would be a Turnbull sympathiser.
I pointed out to my wife that he was an academic and would be driven by pure academic curiosity. Yes, it could hurt the country and damage the Government’s rescue plans. But as I explained to her, some academics find it more important to answer the curiosities. I explained to her there was no possible way that he would let political motivations (if any one way or the other) drive him to hurt Australia just to damage the Governments chances of reelection. No one is that low in Australia I told her. She didn’t seem convinced.
Ahmadinejad: Israel a ’stinking corpse’
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Thursday that the state of Israel is a “stinking corpse” that is destined to disappear, the French news agency AFP reported. “Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken,” the official IRNA news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as having said. “Today the reason for the Zionist regime’s existence is questioned and this regime is on its way to annihilation.” Ahmadinejad further stated that Israel “has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese” – referring to the Second Lebanon War in the summer of 2006.
That took five seconds googling. There’s lots more where that came from.
Diogenes went:
Your wish is my command.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/04/01/does-labor-get-a-bounce-when-parliament-sits/
#687
What’s your point exactly there?
Poss, is it the possum’s habit to burrow everything at the bottom? and they have the nerve to complain about Amigo Ronnie’s spelling.
Triton: that the leaders of a country pursuing the acquisition of nuclear weapons are publicly committed to the destruction of Israel, and that Israel can hardly be expected to take comfort from Juan Cole’s hair-splitting over the precise meaning of “wiped off the map”? Pretty clear, I would have thought.
Finns, generally yes
And yes again on “it” as a description of Labor being a poor one.
#691
The state of Israel is mentioned at the beginning as a ’stinking corpse’, but after that it refers to the Israeli regime, including as a stinking corpse also, so on the whole it appears to be suupporting Oz’s interpretation. However, common sense suggests that he’s unlikely to have any love for the Israeli people or care whether the country slides into the sea.
I asked the question because I wondered if it was related to my comment on being let down by the media.
I told you so that the Chinese is taking over Australia. I think the HS got it wrong, it wont be called the Mekong CG. It reminds people of the Mekong Club in Cabramatta that was owned by Phuong Ngo, the convicted killer. Not good for the brand.
I got it from a very good source that the Central Committee of Chinese Communist Party
wants it to be called the “Manchurian Cricket Club” for a couple of reasons. First, to encourage cricket in Manchuria and second, in honour of the Ruddster. nudge nudge wink wink, you know what i mean.
Has anybody here read ‘Nudge’?
Named one of the best business books of 2008 by The Financial Times
Finalist for the 2008 Book of the Year Award, presented by ForeWord magazine.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/career_and_jobs/article4330267.ece
Labor trashes Australia in key Asian capitals – http://liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=2854
Who’s been trashing who exactly???
The China daily story has already picked on the fact that the Turnbull Opposition are playing anti-China race politics. And of course governments around the world know what is going on.
Bishop is just trying to cover up the Liberal Party’s xenophobic tracks.
I still think this is risky business for the Liberal party. Not only can their anti-China dog whistle backfire because of the GFC it also invokes memories of the low things about the Howard govt years. People will get a reminder why they don’t like this crowd.
Labor really should be making that connection. Tying this current behaviour back to previous xenophobic dog whistling of the Howard Govt.
Reported on The World Today was that an OECD report has praised Australia’s stimulus package as the most effective in the world, not just its size but the way it was spent. No doubt the government will be trumpeting that assessment.
Thomas Paine @ 697.
“Whew”, say the Libs. “It’ll all be OK now Julie’s on the job”.
Re the above discussion: there’s no real distinction between the state and people of Israel on the one hand, and “the Zionist regime” on the other. Israel was created and settled with Jews by the Zionist movement. All the Jewish inhabitants of Israel are by defintion Zionists, or they wouldn’t be living there. To threaten to destroy “the Zionist regime” can only mean to destroy the state of Israel and to kill or drive out its present Jewish population. That is certainly how the Israelis interpret Iran’s rhetoric. If Iran means something different, it should say so, although it’s hard to see what else it could mean.
#700 Adam
Well, it is a translation, and ‘regime’ in politics usually means government, and that’s also the French etymology of the word. If ‘regime’ is used as a synonym for ’state’, including the population, then people reading the English translation are likely to misunderstand it.
Can you spot what’s wrong with this article at Crikey?
http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20090401-Chinese-linked-attempt-to-dominate-Australias-media.html
Dogma, As kids we used to say that if you play the trick after noon on April 1st it made you the fool. Is that the answer you were after?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the article. It even got the date correct.
A very factual article. We should all be very afraid.
April Fool’s Day is so tedious.
God Steve, it’s been too long since I’ve been to school that I forgot that one. Going by the school yard rulz then Bernard is tagged back as the fool. But he did such a good job and made a important point that I think that the fools in this one will be The Australian’s coverage by their opinion writers and MT and JHokey.
Scarpat, lol God love ya!
dogma, Years later I realised that the post noon thingy was probably invented by the teachers so that there was an early end to all of the silliness during school hours.
Shorten not too bad at National Press Club
Triton, if that were the case, it would seem that Iran’s objective is to remove the “Zionist government” of Israel and replace it with a “non-Zionist government” of Israel. But this is nonsense. Any Israeli government is by definition “Zionist” because Israel is a creation of the Zionist movement, which the overwhelming majority of Jews both inside and outside Israel support. To be an Israeli Jew is by definition to be a Zionist. When Israeli Jews decide they are not Zionists (as a small number do), they emigrate. Presumably a “non-Zionist government” of Israel would have to be committed to abolishing Israel, organising the emigration of 6 million Jewish Israelis and then handing the empty territory over to the Palestinians. You may think this is a good idea but Israelis obviously do not. So this distinction between “government” and “regime” is a total furphy. Iran’s stated aim is to destroy Israel, and that can only be achieved by force. The Arabs, recently joined by Iran, have been trying to do this for 60 years by conventional means, without success. Now this rhetoric is being deployed at the same time Iran is developing nuclear weapons (as even the French and Russians agree!). What do you expect Israel to do in these circumstances?
Possum
Thank you very much for the analysis. I’m pleased that Jack’s comments were ill-informed of the OO would have created a first by making a correct and original psephological observation. Anything which creates doubt about the polls reflecting reality can be spun by the OO to excuse the Libarals poor polling.
So Rupe thinks he is conquering the world but China conquered, conquers from within. So was the misses a plant and a ’sleeper’. Get onto it DSD.
There are pages of analysis here of whether Ahmadinejad has ever threatened Israel. It looks like his comments can be interpreted according to whatever position you take on the ME.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
This looks pretty unambiguous to me.
Dio, Somehow I don’t think that Israel can take that chance.
Conroy is backpedalling …..
D-Day on Friday …….
Dogma, relax. i was the first one to break the news this morning (see #617) that the Central Committee CCP has decided to buy out Australia and appointed Ruddster as its first CEO. Anything else after my scoop is just pathetic, I have a copy of the whole “take over plan”. The Crikey leak was just a crumb we throw at the media chooks.
Do you actually think there will ever be an Israeli government that doesn’t believe in the sovereignty of the state of Israel?
If he actually thought this, then there would be no reason for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.
Any PB’rs affected by this?
It should be noted that The Age has NOT included the article and information @ the ‘G’ from the earlier HS story as an example.
SO
BS. What about nuclear deterrence? MAD has been a great way of limiting conflicts.
There’s something very amusing about members of a theocratic government being unwilling to accept the legality of a democratically elected government.
#710 Adam
All that makes perfect sense. The question then is, where is ‘regime’ coming from? Is it a poor translation, maybe from a Persian word that has multiple meanings, or is it a loose usage by Ahmadinejad and he expects it to be understood by everyone as Israel the country, or has he chosen the word carefully to hide the fact that he means Israel the country (i.e., political spin), or is he just focusing on the regime because the leadership makes all the decisions to bomb Gaza and Lebanon etc. but by extension he obviously also means the country for the reason you’ve explained? Maybe this just looks like nit-picking, but I think it’s of some importance.
The problem with this is that Israelis and Jews generally have long memories. For them the Hitler analogy is simply inescapable. When he was speaking to the foreign press or foreign leaders, Hitler frequently said things such as the above quote. When he was speaking at Nuremberg rallies, he said something different. With the benefit of hindsight, we now know when he was telling the truth and when he was lying. Israelis see this as an exactly analogous situation.
Deter what? He said that Israel is going to collapse on its own, so why doesn’t he spend money on economic development, health, and education instead. You know, do something about the 18% poverty rate, the 12% unemployment rate, and the 24% inflation rate.
I refuse to accept that the world will be safer once more countries possess nuclear weapons.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2306571/Clark-confirmed-in-UN-role
No this is not an April Fool. Congrat to Ms. Helen Clark. she has done very well in securing this job. It’s No: 3 in the UN hierarchy. There is a big possibility that she could be the first female UN Chief. I bet Dolly was praying for this job as well.
The Finns, You mean that Dolly wanted to be first cross-dressing UN Chief?
Finns, a few days ago I read about a joke Hillary told. It went something like this
“After a nuclear war the only ones to survive and crawl out from underneath the rubble would be the cockroach and Helen Clark”
SO
To deter Israel from nuclear bombing Iran. At best, Iran will get a couple of nukes. They couldn’t destroy Israel with a couple of nukes. There is a lot of hysteria about Iran blowing Israel off the face of the earth, mostly fed by Israeli’s looking for a casus belli. It can’t happen.
The MAD doctrine (Mutually Assured Destruction) may have died with teh advent of the suicide bomber – all we need is a suicide state and we are all gone.
Here’s to you Mr Jefferson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLAg8a0vCZQ
Grog (way back at #675),
Thanks for that.
Jules
#727, what else can i add?
http://www.crikey.com.au/Media/images/070424-downer-7ca20b00-b855-4891-b7f9-575dc2850560.gif
No 729
Incapacity to cause total destruction is not a tenable argument supporting the possession of nuclear weapons by lunatic rogues like Ahmadinejad.
Well now that’s an interesting comment if you understand Ahmedinejad’s theological views. He belongs to a sect of Shia Islam called the Twelvers. They believe that the return of the 12th or Hidden Imam is imminent, which will presage the end of the world. So he really doesn’t care about the health or housing of the Iranian people, because all that is about to end anyway. He cares about destroying what he sees as an affront to Islam, namely the existence of a non-Islamic state on the territory of Dar-al-Islam, the House of Islam. This affront must be removed before the Hidden Imam can return. It’s difficult to make rational calculations about what a man motivated by such beliefs might do.
Diog, just see how Hillary struts:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123852188758874429.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Dubya: “You either with us or against us”
Hillary: “You either with us or talk to us”
Go Hillary, go.
Invade Iraq?
No 736
As if Hillary Clinton actually has any credibility anyway, having falsely claimed in the election campaign that she came under sniper fire upon her arrival in Bosnia.
GP,
You proposing we introduce a Bill of Rights to Australia?
How very leftist of you.
Diogenes, I’m afraid I have come to expect such stupid remarks from you. I know you enjoy having a stir, but that doesn’t aleviate the stupidity of such comments. OF COURSE it can happen. Israel is a very small place, and within easy range of the Russian rockets Iran possesses already. They are along way ahead of North Korea in both rocketry and developing a warhead. Once they have even a primitive warhead, nuking Tel Aviv from Iran would be much easier than dropping a bomb oh Hiroshima was in 1945. It’s easy for you to be flippant when you don’t live under such a threat.
oh dear, GP, are we still sore that the Repug has lost.
The Devalued Prime Minister of a Devalued Government:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
David Hannan in the European Parliament.
No 739
No, that would be your pathetic strawman.
But Amenajahd said that Israel is going to die on the vine by itself, therefore, Iran shouldn’t need nuclear weapons! Either he spoke the truth, and thus Iran doesn’t need nuclear weapons, or he was lying, and wants to bring about the destruction of Israel, or its regime (government), hence he is helping Iran procure nuclear weapons.
WHAT!? The fact Iran could get two nuclear weapons and thus potentially killed hundreds of thousands of people is OK because that wouldn’t count as destruction of the entire state? That’s just crazy talk.
Most of it fueled by the President of Iran acting like an utter anti-Semitic nutcase.
Diog, how many times do i need to tell you not to upset Mr. Historian. It’s time I have a another chat with Mrs D again about you.
That’s Dr Historian to you.
No 741
I’m sore that Ron Paul is not the president, but that is an immaterial discussion given the present reality.
“If he actually thought this, then there would be no reason for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.”
Except, of course, as a deterrent against the only state in the ME who DO have nukes. The same state that considers it a god-given right to attack any country that it considers a threat.
Janet is excellent as per usual:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/janetalbrechtsen/index.php/theaustralian/comments/hayek_hatred_a_handy_dog_whistle/
Adam, I’m afraid I have come to expect such stupid remarks from you.
You don’t understand what “destroy” means. A few nuclear bombs would not destroy Israel. A few decent chunks of a few cities at worst. Your concern and hand-wringing about Israel being on the brink of annihilation if Iran gets a nuclear bomb is more to do with belligerent hysteria than reality.
Rudd’s essay really got under the skin of the rabble and its cheers squad.
No 750
And the fact that only a “few cities” would be obliterated in a nuclear holocaust somehow justifies Iran possessing nuclear weapons?
What are you smoking Dio?
The Borg will stand as deputy leader of the LNP. Talk about weird.
GP and SO
I don’t recall arguing that. Please show where I said that Iran should have nuclear weapons.
I’m saying that Iran cannot obliterate Israel. The idea that Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth with nuclear weapons is risible.
Well considering that some of Islam’s most holy sites are in Israel, I doubt Iran would attack with nuclear weapons.
“The idea that Hitler wants to kill all the Jews on the face of the earth with poison gas is risible.” Many people said almost exactly those words in the 1930s, and even during the war, despite the fact that Hitler actually *explicitly advocated* gassing Jews in Mein Kampf. Do you think Israelis, of all people, have forgotten this? They certainly have not, and it is this historical experience that motivates all of Israel’s current behaviour. As Disraeli said: “I come from a race that never forgets a friend or forgives an enemy.” I sincerely hope that Israel does not attack Iran. But if they do, no-one will be able to say that they weren’t warned.
It would just kill hundreds of thousands of people. I don’t understand why you seem to think that is acceptable.
Adam
My point is that they CANNOT do it even if they wanted to. Israel has 8M people and lots of cities. Israel would easily survive a nuclear attack and obliterate Iran in about 10 minutes.
They do want to, that is why they are trying to make nuclear weapons. That’s the whole point.
NY House Race Too Close To Call, 65-Vote Dem Lead
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/31/ny-house-race-too-close-t_n_181553.html
SO
It’s not even remotely acceptable. I’m saying that the threat is being overstated of the amount of damage Iran could do.
In the worst-case scenario, if Iran tried to act as a “suicide state”, which is an interesting concept, they would be cause perhaps 200,000 deaths and be quite rightly obliterated from the face of the Earth. I’m trying to say that launching a pre-emptive War on Iran to prevent them getting nukes would end up with an awful lot of Israeli’s that wouldn’t be justified by the potential risk.
Is Herr Doktor ok?
Dio,
If it is any consolation to you, I understand what you meant. Your comments haven’t been totally lost on PB today. I think that you were referring to no more than the fact that Israel would survive an attack as did Japan. A nuclear attack doesn’t make a country disappear into thin air. Not that it is alright if it were to happen just that there would still be an Israel existing after the fact.
Your message got through to me in Perth
…..
Hurray the Republicans are still in the hunt in New York lol!
It was a solidly Republican seat until the last Democrat won it.
Should Iran be allowed to have a civilian nuclear power industry to provide electricity for its population?
The capability to kill a few hundred thousand people is enormous.
Yes provided IAEA inspectors can visit whenever they like, and as long as they don’t posses nuclear weapons. If Iran wants to posses, or possess nuclear weapons, then they shouldn’t be allowed to have a nuclear power industry.
ShowsOn
So you are saying that no country, that does not have IAEA inspections and wants to possess nuclear weapons, should have a civilian nuclear power program?
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25274973-29277,00.html
ShowsOn calls on farmers in the Northern Territory to stop pressuring the Government on climate change until ALL Farmers in the world agree that climate change isn’t influenced by human activities.
Considering the other day I was labelled among the One Nationers
I would empathatically say NO
There is no legitimate reason for any country that doesn’t currently have nuclear weapons to want or need to posses them.
Some countries have nuclear weapons still essentially as a relic of the Cold War, and aftermath of WWII. There is no reason NOW for any non-nuclear states to need nuclear weapons capabilities, it simply can not be justified.
Look at Russia and the U.S., they agreed to dismantle 1000 nuclear warheads each in 2002. That nuclear material is now being used in the U.S. to generate electricity, that’s exactly what should happen to nuclear weapons, the world is safer without them.
ALL is certainly a tall order. Just as it’s not possible to get ALL historians to agree that the holocaust took place it will be impossible to get ALL scientists to agree on anything except that they need more research funding.
That spokesman is a fool.
But ShowsOn Iran is a member of the IAEA and has stated its nuclear power program is for domestic power production.
Of course they could be telling huge porkies – but on the other hand there were no WMD in Iraq.
to paraphrase Herr Doktor
“the evil towelheads want to obliterate peaceful,fun loving Israel, for no other reason than Iran is a death(deaf?) cult”
But don’t you know that things aren’t true until the moment that ALL scientists agree that they are true!
So that means they should be more than willing to allow inspectors in to ALL of their nuclear facilities.
This has nothing to do with Iraq.
Whats it to them?
What farmers? Mango trees, bok choy, bananas.
Well Barnett is not singing from the Liberal Songbook re China.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/barnett-says-he-supports-chinese-investment-in-australia-20090401-9jb6.html
ShowsOn
“IAEA spokeman Melissa Fleming asserted that the IAEA had no reason at all to believe that the estimates of low-enriched uranium produced by Iran were an intentional error, and that no nuclear material could be removed from the facility for further enrichment to make nuclear weapons without the agency’s knowledge since the facility is subject to video surveillance and the nuclear material is kept under seal”
The February 2009 IAEA report
But of course beleive what you like –
When the President of a country says he wants a country obliterated, and when that same President holds a holocaust denial conference, I feel comfortable not trusting that political leader. This is especially so when the REAL political overlords of the country are theocratic despots who have spent the last thirty years holding back the country’s economic, social and political development.
Can someone sms me on 0400 BORING when the discussion changes from Israel? Thanks.
I thought a democracy would inherently receive more support in this forum than a regime run by unrepresentative theocratic nutcases.
I remember when the Mohammad Reza Pahlavi arrived at Fairbairn in Canberra – of course he was a “good guy”.
That shows how naive you are, ShowsOn. The infatuation of the western lumpen intelligentsia with anti-democratic regimes has become such a commonplace that it’s hardly worth commenting on any more.
Israel???
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi may not have been perfect but at least he didnt want nukes or to destroy Israel.
So says Glen.
Adam,
Sad but true.
beside your pet cause,an other examples you wish to back your statement with!
or is it just another of your sweeping statements
Iran is playing the Libyan Gambit.
I suspect the China bashing will change to the next new subject for Turnbull
Brendan O’Connor.
Job Services Australia……tender went to via independent probity adviser ….. out of 400 hundred tenders….116 contracts……72% of winners are existing services providers
The last time i check, You still cannot eat democracy , you still cannot drink democracy, you still cannot shelter under democracy and you still cannot be cured by democracy if you are sick.
But you do get a $900 handout…
Job Services Australia is a radical change to the old Job Network. But I bet the two overseas companies that were succesful tenderers will cop a spray from the rabble.
And thank goodness the Salvation Army’s Employment Plus aren’t amongst the winners – trying to ram down religion while finding work for people.
YES, makes me want believe there is a GOD
OK Gusface, let’s try a little test. Is Fidel Castro (a) a brave anti-imperialist fighter and statesman who has brought his people free health-care? or (b) a Stalinist dictator who has kept his country in poverty for 50 years?
Gus, every time i want to do something that the missus said i shouldn’t. i just say “God want me to do it”. It works every time. You gotta love GOD, he is so useful.
Frank
Are you sure the Salvo’s missed out? I heard about 80% of succesful tenderers were not for profit outfits.
Adam your question is spurious.
Castro was a Stalinist dictator who kept his country in poverty for 50 years and while giving his people free health care they have had no political freedoms to speak of for shame, which is a disgrace.
I was thinking a Stalinist dictator who has brought his people free health-care? but then again he could be a brave anti-imperialist fighter and statesman who has kept his country in poverty for 50 years?
Probably a mixture of Both.
That said, I believe the USA/Russia/China need a boogeyman to reinforce thier systems of Gvt.
And therein lies the rub, in essence the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So whilst not supporting ANY regime per se, i prefer to see events in a geoploitical perspective,rather than as a clash of absolutes.
From The Age comes this, and from all accounts it looks like one of the Howard Government’s poster boy’s for the Jobs Network will be itself looking for a job
http://www.theage.com.au/national/local-job-agencies-jittery-as-canberra-looks-to-britain-20090323-97hi.html
Herr Doktor, i also got a test for you:
Has the Communist regime been good for the chinese nation & people …… ….. (fill the blanks)
or
The Communist regime has been a disaster for the chinese nation & people …… ….. (fill the blanks)
The very question shows an inability to see grey. The Manichean world-view is very common on the right, as exemplified by George Bush. It makes things simpler but it loses a lot of information. The world is not black and white.
I would have thought that most of the blame for the poverty of Cuba could be sheeted home to the US embargo.
Diogenes:
You must be a fan of that wonderful old hymm Sucking on Lenin’s C*ck
BRING BACK BREE
Ms Party
I’m more of a post-rock, indy rock person. I don’t believe I know that one.
Gusface:
seen more then enough Diogenes at the Wikipedia Lenin Stalin etc articles
It’s soured me
Cuba despite the sanctions has a higher life expectancy to it near neighbours like Jamaica (a democracy I may add).
No Big Macs, KFC, Pizza Huts?
I think if I saw more than enough of Dio, I would be soured too
Ms Party
That’s kind of funny because I’m a capitalist who believes in Enlightenment values. I have no time for communism, Marxism or any of the variations.
It’s hard to imagine how such an intelligent person could get it so wrong.
Diogenes:
It was your insistence on shades of grey when it comes to Cuba that pinged my radar – that’s been the exact same tactic used by Communist Wikipedians to whitewash the Red Terror, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Castro articles
My apologies for my jadedness
I wonder if Employment PLus’s status is due to this small problem.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1604688.htm
Gus,
The HS have ‘fessed up. Please please (memo to self) do NOT read any news sites at all on April 1st from now on.
Didn’t see this one though earlier today (in the same vein)
– Broadband site Whirlpool reporting the sacking of Communications Minister Stephen Conroy.
And while more than one site/place claims this is a running issue with Aussies every year, I’ve not seen it before and this is my 5th AF day in Oz.
Ms Party
No worries. I have a talent for getting up people’s noses. Hence the name.
When I say there is no black and white, only grey, I definitely don’t mean that every grey is the same. I’m not a moral relativist. Stalin was just as bad a person as Hitler IMHO. Hitler was quite irrational, whereas Stalin was highly rational so he was probably more evil.
Dio
Stalin and Mao were far worse than Hitler.
My ranking goes…
Mao
Stalin
Hitler
My ranking goes…..
GP
Bree
Glen
All conservatives are evil, everyone beware
Mao
Stalin
Hitler
Pol Pot
.
.
.
… Howie
.
.
… Tony Abbott
.
.
.
… Chris Uhlmann.
Go Socceroos, go
Glen, it is possible that some people are SO EVIL that it simply beggars belief that you can rank “degrees” of being evil. The 3 you mentioned all fall into that category.
We’re ranking evil now?
Ru
Where would costello rank???
juliem, if you want the flavour of OZ political satire, have a look at Shane Moloney’s piece in Crikey.
What about Idi amin, Atilla the hun, Ivan the terrible? Don’t they get a mention?
I think Hitler goes first, setting up factories to process a population has got to take the cake. If he’s not the antichrist I don’t know who is, and God’s people to boot
How can a hammock dweller gain a ranking?
grog, why not rank ebil? Just the thing for April 1. I vote for Cheney and Rumsfeld as next ranking top evil creatures, just behind Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot.
agreed juliem – such debates are stupid at best, insulting at worst.
Go Australia!!!
And for the forces of good:
Jesus
Budha
The prophet Mohamad
Gandhi
Kevin Rudd
then forces of good cont:
Martin Luther King
JFK
mother theresa
batman
Paul Keating
Goff Whitlam
Bob Hawke
Gough
Based on a 58-42 2pp in 2010 would Turnbull win his seat?
Good question Glen!
Glen, not a good indicator. Turnbull would have lost his seat in 2007 if the swing was uniform.
This is twaddle. All governments that are not representative democracies are by definition despotic regimes that do not have any moral AUTHORITY to make ANY decisions on behalf of other people. This is why in England there was a constant struggle so the Parliament would have the authority to make laws instead of the Monarch ruling at will, and why the U.S. fought a war of independence so America could be Governed by Americans, instead of kowtowing to the British.
I couldn’t care less if Cuba has great health care and very high rates of literacy. The right of people to have a direct say via a democratic process to determine how they are governed is a fundamental right that can’t be bargained away with free health care and reading lessons.
But that was 53-47 even if it was 55-45 he’d be in trouble.
Plus he will probably get a bit of a swing to him since he is opposition leader. People like voting for a candidate who would become PM if his party wins.
I was talking about his twin brother Geoff Whitlam often spelt Goff (known for doing many good deeds)
Diogenes where are you? The subject is good v bad, come on you know what to say
Imagine if the actual election results were 63- 37, like essential says. What would they be left with?
Tuckey?
The federal election saw a 2pp swing of 5.44% to Labor. In NSW it was 5.61%. In Wentworth there was a 1.34% swing TO THE LIBERALS. As leader he could only be assisted further.
Wentworth has always been a blue-ribbon seat, and will never fall to Labor, unless a bizarre redistribution bowls it for 6.
On his own…..lmao imagining parliament
Assuming a uniform swing from 2007 (not a chance), they’d be left with 13 seats (8 Lib 5 Nat).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_2007/Post-election_pendulum – everything from Farrer onward.
Imagine question time with 5 libs, 2 nats and 3 independants
Oh yes, good vs. bad on April 1. Does anyone recall the judging of the witch in the Python series?
Then we’d be a one party state virtually.
13…unlucky for some
To continue, you’d be left with: Sussan Ley, Alex Hawke, John Cobb, Bronwyn Bishop, Mark Coulton, Brendan Nelson, Julie Bishop, Steve Ciobo, Bruce Scott, Kay Hull, Wilson Tuckey, Sharman Stone, John Forrest.
They’re all wooden harry, burn them
Yes, Bob1234 @ 841, but doesn’t that swing include the little factor of Turnbull opposing a former Liberal member for the seat in the ‘04 rlection, which wasn’t a factor in ‘07?
844, Centaur, that is enough to put a smile on my face
….. they wouldn’t have enough to field a full front bench unless some folks wore more than one hat 
…..
Fulvio, do you understand how preferential works?
If someone votes ind, lib, alp, it’s a lib 2pp vote.
centaur009, that would be sad, wouldn’t it.? You can imagine various ALP people going to the Opposition benches with little people bringing carts to get them to the despatch box, and then back to their seats, just out of the kindness of their hearts.
They’ld still be fighting over opposition leader, having leadership spills….first Brendan would want another go, (hold on he’s leaving) then the two Bishops would fight it out. There would be confussion on the vote people putting just Bishop and not specifying, Tuckey would put his hand up and they’ld go with Ciobo for a while……It is all too funny to think off…..I’ll prey to the Easter Bunny, Jesus, all Godds and Kevin….make it so
The Left faction of the ALP would be the opposition.
bob1234, Nelson is retiring at next election, we don’t know yet whom might replace him …..
No, if they float they’re wooden…oh, we’ve moved on…
An accountant looking for an early retirement most likely.
And who’s to say that a significant percentage of Ind. voters didn’t in the prevailing circumstances in ‘04 preference Turnbull after Labor?
Ahhh, that Goff, my apologies.
Bob1234, 13 that’s a baker’s dozen. They could become the Hot Cross Bun party. Pity hot cross Joe isn’t one of the 13, he’d have a feast on his fellow members
The Opposition really, officially, formally does not know it’s rear end from it’s elbow. Critically fractured across base support. And I gotta say, what do you do with that part of the population who think Bolt speaks for them? Serious question. You can’t just dismiss them..
They could make Tuckey the shadow minister for parliamentary objections
Glen, Is this your contribution to the list of evil people?
If they did that, bob1234, the Speaker (be he Jenkins continuing or someone else) would have a heart attack
…….
King had his supporters. After he was shafted by Howard and Turnbull in ‘04, a good many of them, in the knowledge that realistically a Liberal could not lose the seat ,(Turnbull or King) would have registered a protest preference vote.
I can’t imagine many of those who would vote lib then alp would suddenly go ind alp lib.
The pro-Liberal 2pp swing in 2007 can be put down to two words: George Newhouse.
You had to be there, Bob.
the ALP had put up a decent candidate.
A big opportunity missed there.
MInd you given the disunity behind Turnbull, it’s probably no bad thing in the long run.
Is ind lib alp not a protest vote?
Geez the socceroos are not switched on tonight… need Cahill.
No Tuckey is funny but it’s sad he’s wasting a safe seat which we could use to blood new talent.
You’re aware of what the WA redistrib will do to his seat next election don’t you?
Yeah, like an accountant looking for an early retirement. They are the sorts of people that count as star Liberal recruits these days.
ShowsOn id rather an accountant than a Union boss.
Not if you hated the Lib candidate’s guts, as some King supporters did AT THE TIME (sorry can’t do bold letters). They would almost certainly have returned to the fold by ‘07.
I dont think a Union Boss would want you, big boy
Was Mao Zedong’s regime good or bad for the Chinese people? A fair question. Obviously it wasn’t very good for million or so people classified as landlords who were killed without trial in 1949-51, or the 30 million or so who starved during the Great Leap Forward, or the several million more who died or were killed as a result of the Cultural Revolution. Nor was it very good for the many millions who have disappeared into the labour camp system, rarely to be ever seen again. Nor was it much good for the intellectuals, the middle class and Christians in the first 30 years of the regime, although things have improved for them since 1979. On the other hand, the majority of the population, the peasantry, certainly benefitted from the land-reform of 1949 and the suppression of warlordism. Things got much worse for them with collectivisation in 1958, but since 1979 they have profitted enormously from decollectivisation and the restoration of a free market in grain. Women, particularly peasant women, gained enormously, particularly in education. But in China as everywhere else, socialism ran into a dead end, both socially and ecomically, after 25 years or so. If it had not been for Deng Xiaoping’s reforms, China would have finished up like the Soviet Union, or worse. But the restoration of a free market has allowed the Communist Party to remain in power for another 30 years, by keeping nearly everybody reasonably happy as a result of massive exports of cheap goods. Now the crunch is coming, so we will see how much longer the Chinese will put up with corrupt and undemocratic rule when it is no longer delivering prosperity as compensation.
Yet your chameleonic party has chopped and changed who it wants over the years. Where is the conviction?
I still laugh at Liberals equating keynesianists to communists. Menzies Liberals would be rolling in their graves.
Costello’s feathers have been ruffled in Higgins and he’s come out punching (well with a wet lettuce) in the local leader.
http://stonnington-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/higgins-i-m-still-here/
Thing is Glen – can you ever see a leader of the party coming from Tuckey’s seat? So at best you might get a minister, but it’s not exactly Bradfield.
Why not we were close to having a WA leader of the Party when Holt died and Hasluck looked a dead cert that was until Gorton got drafted in?
Still we could at least get a Minister out of the seat one day.
Why is O’Connor any less fit for a prime minister than, say, Wannon? Because it’s in WA rather than Victoria?
Well
we all know WA is where our junior MP’s come from
the lack of ,ahem, a high collective IQ also is a disadvantage
and the fact that all WA is good for is mines and farms
Why hasnt Australia scored yet??
We’re are playing Uzbekistan for crying out loud!
But we ALMOST had a WA Based Prime Minister in Beazley in 2001 if it wasn’t for a certain maritime incident and certain events in New York.
Adam@879,
Arguable, the main contributor to the marked downturn in national economy of China in 1958 was the unrealistically ambitious and disruptive policies (there were talks of exceeding UK and/or US’s steel production) coupled with three years of severe weather conditions. These policies were officially reversed in 1964 and the economy was on the rise, only for the unmitigated disaster that was Cultural Revolution to kick in two years later.
Currently, Chinese economy is also feeling the pinch of the global recession. People are more cautious and some are out of a job. However, somewhat similar to the situation in Australia, there was no wide-spread panic, nor is the population in general seriously hit financially. I really do not think the current recession will be all that destablising.
vera
Labor = good, Liberal = bad. I’ve learnt my lesson.
SO
I greatly prefer a country to be a representative democracy but it doesn’t make it right all the time. It’s the least bad form of government. Lots of great governments haven’t been democracies and have ruled very well, eg many times during the Roman Empire.
wasn’t Beazley technically “closer” to being elected in 1998? I thought in that election he actually had a situation a la Al Gore in 2000, had more of the popular vote. Don’t think he replicated that in 2001 …..
Who was the last PM from a rural seat?
Adam:
The Party can always use the military to retain control, as they did in 1989
Yep, my mistake it was 98, but Beazley still had a chance in 2001, but those events I mentioned frightend the kaka out of the electorate.
Fraser???
Malcolm Fraser I think.
GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO Aussies, they got one in
Aust 1 – Uzbek 0
Fraser from Wannon.
GOALASO!
The Hon P J Keating, who represented the rolling green hills of Yagoona.
Penalty for OZ
I note your sarcasm Adam.
But it’s nice to see you stop talking about overseas dictators and Israel!
Wild about Harry, Aust 2 – 0 !!!!!
I have no probs with Perth producing a PM. But rural WA? Nup.
The way the demographics ar eno, I doubt any rural seat will give us another PM – unless you start classing electorates like say FLinders as rural
2-0!!!!!!
Uzbeck house of cards is crumbling fast
Let us not count our chickens yet…
Vale 2-2 against Iran (1998)
Glen, Iran has nuke, Uzbek doesn’t.
Just finished a cup of tea with 1 block of pineapple and then strawberry cadbury snack. It was yum!
That Bishop, I think it was, in the UK was spot on when he said the election of Rudd was an Obama moment fo Australia. Rudd is coming across like a real leader at the G20. A far contrast to just another minister for the US like Howard.
Am I right in saying no PM has come from SA? And Kevin is the first from Qld? And Joe Lyons is the only one from Tas?
Glen
NEVER mention that match again EVER. You can vote for Howie etc but you must NEVER mention that match.
DaveM
True. Never has a PM from SA, although Bob was born in Bordertown.
What about Forde?
And was educated in WA
Yes, No, Yes.
Andrew Fisher and Arthur Fadden were PMs from QLD.
Joe Lyons is cool.
Fisher, Fadden and Forde were all from Qld.
Andrew Fisher was also the first Australian PM to hold a majority of seats in either house, at the 1910 election. Fisher Labor implemented many things that are still around in some form today.