The latest weekly Essential Research survey shows Labor’s lead moderating slightly to 61-39 from 63-37 in the previous two surveys. In other findings, 54 per cent approve of the government’s national broadband network, while 62 per cent think Australia’s economy “better than most countries” in the current global financial crisis. For this, equal credit is given to “the actions of the Rudd government – including the stimulus packages” and a well-regulated finance and banking sector. “The Howard government’s handling of the economy” ranks somewhat lower. Also featured are questions on potential budget measures, the role of human rights in international trade, and China’s human rights record.
What’s more:
• George Megalogenis of The Australian charts the rise of the centre left with reference to long-term Newspoll trends.
• Glenn Milne of The Australian has written a skeptically received article which speaks of plotting against Julie Bishop partly motivated by Senator Matthias Cormann’s designs on her blue-ribbon seat of Curtin. Andrew Bolt has published Cormann’s denial.
• Electoral Commissioner Ed Killesteyn advises the government to get hip by allowing voters to enrol online.
• Rick Wallace of The Australian notes the Victorian ALP is struggling to meet its affirmative action quota of 35 per cent female candidates in winnable seats, making it “almost imperative that a woman replaces a retiring woman, and that at least one in two of all retiring men are replaced by women”. While little action is expected ahead of the next federal election, speculation is said to surround the state seats of Craig Langdon (Ivanhoe), Peter Batchelor (Thomastown), Lynne Kosky (Altona) and John Pandazopoulos (Dandenong). More substantially, “former speaker Judy Maddigan has confirmed she will retire and she is expected to support former Labor staffer Natalie Sykes-Hutchins to replace her in the seat of Essendon”.
• Adelaide’s Independent Weekly reports on Malcolm Mackerras’s tip for next year’s state election: Labor to be comfortably returned, with the loss of only Norwood, Mawson and Light. The report notes something I had neglected to relate previously: SA Murray Irrigators Association chair Tim Whetstone was preselected in November as the Liberal candidate for Nationals MP Karlene Maywald’s seat of Chaffey, ahead of Citrus Growers of SA president Mark Chown and businessman Brian Barnett. Mackerras tips Whetstone to win.
• Ben Raue at The Tally Room has a post on whether the federal parliament should be enlarged, with reference to international practice.
• Possum notes the cubic polynomial distribution of two-party electorate results, and its implications for interpreting marginal seat exit polls.
Courtesy of the April edition of the invaluable Democratic Audit Update:
• The Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters will hold a “roundtable public hearing” on submissions to the green paper on campaign finance at Parliament House on Thursday, from 9.30am to 1pm.
• The Greens’ “parliamentary contract” with Labor’s minority government in the Australian Capital Territory is reviewed by Jenny Stewart in the Canberra Times.
• Brian Costar examines Electoral Commissioner Ed Killesteyn’s demolition of the spurious justifications for the Howard government’s 2005 electoral “reforms” at Inside Story.
• The Australian Parliamentary Library has published a research paper on the electoral demise of the Australian Democrats by Cathy Madden.
1,454 Comments
I see Jack the Insider has done a blog on dopey right wing blogs:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jacktheinsider/index.php/theaustralian/comments/hijacking_history_in_the_blogosphere/
(course there are no dopey left wing blogs…)
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that thought Milne was sniffing the liquid paper.
Interesting things to note from the Essential Research survey:
1. While only 54% support the NBN, only 24% oppose it while 21% have no opinion. So it looks like the NBN is a political winner (at this stage).
2. The report says that 46% of respondents would oppose cuts to defence spending, but only 33% approve. However, 53% support an increase in alcohol taxes with only 32% opposed. So it looks like the Coalition has backed a loser here as well…
SL,
The young John Lennon wrote a song for Malcolm T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqaLDhKAOs
Swing Lowe went re:alcotaxes
Can anyone think of any issue where a Turnbull position has come down on the side of majority opinion?
So saying, that probably speaks volumes about Rudd as well.
He backed the initial stimulus package – which, incidentally enough, led to his best approval ratings of his short career as Opposition leader
I think Malcom’s problem with Rudd’s $43b broadband announcement is that most voters don’t have a context for $43b…..I mean, …how many billions are out there to spend? …..how do I make sense of the proposition to spend $43b in return for faster broadband…
$43bn is the same amount of money (roughly) as:
one year GST revenue from all of Australian taxable goods and services sold.
one year commonwealth spend on Australia’s Health System
one year entire commonwealth tax grant’s to the states
two years of Defence spending
Imagine stopping Commonwealth spending on health for one year…that’s how much Rudd is thinking of spending
Poss, the Republic. (Dont tell me he ditched that one as well)
Bit of tricky wording here from the SALNP too which is quite comical.
http://www.sa.nationals.org.au/news/default.asp?action=article&ID=302
But not in one year…
True. But he’s spending it over 8 years, not 1…
That said, if Turnbull framed his arguments in those terms, he would probably be getting more political traction than he currently is by saying broadband is going to cost $100/month (or was that $200
)
If Turnbull takes the party backward in 2010 then he’s gone.
I dont think we’ll ditch him before 2010 after all who wants to be the captain of the ship when it goes down.
Squiggle
The Govt is not spending $43 billion.
Squiggle,
Heard tonight that there are fibre infrastructures set up in Afghanistan, Cambodia and Vietnam all countries arguably less well off than Australia.
Why isn’t there a fibre infrastructure in Australia so we can play in the big world economy. Howard and Costello sold off the public monopoly Telstra to a privitised monopoly. They didn’t invest in the network. They just raped and pillaged Australia for as much as they could.
Now, you probably haven’t been pillaged before. So the consequences are that we are now years behind the rest of the world.
Malcolm can whine as much as he likes. But this is a cost the country has to bear. More power to Kevvie’s arm.
Glen, turn it up.We all know that once the Dissatisfaction for the Opposition Leader is Greater than the satisfaction rating as measured by Newspoll it is Good night and Good Luck in 2009 not 2010.
Steve,
I would prefer a 2011 election.
“Kevin Heaven in 2011″
Steve we’d be even more of a joke if we went through 4 leaders in 2 years.
It is Turnbull or bust in 2010.
That said if his numbers stay at 18% or go lower anything could happen.
Bring on the Hammock man now and see how he goes.
Wrong.
It’s 51% of $43 billion over 8 years which is less than $3 billion a year.
Maybe Phillip Ruddock could lead the party
Squiggle, maybe we should cut defence spending for two years. Heck, it’s not as if we are going to be attacked within two years. Better still, the world should cut defence spending for two years and invest it in their respective economies.
Good article by Jenny Stewart.
The world should cut “defence” spending forever…
Jenny is living in la la land.
Leave it to the Greens to come up with yet another Bennite Solution.
Man’s inhumanity to man will not stop and as such we cannot cut defence spending to 0 as she would like it.
I doubt the Chinese would reduce their defence budget based on some tree hugers one worlder idea.
Maybe they could bring back Dr Nelson if the Hammock man won’t roll out the hammock.
Jenny Stewart and The Greens have nothing to do with defence spending.
Probably should have read the article, Glen.
Oz cutting Defence spending is a Bennite Solution.
That said defence spending needs more accountability.
Glen, I think you’re confusing a left-wing politician in Britain and an article about The Greens in the ACT.
So does the Federal Liberal Party need more accountability, what is stopping Costello from being Liberal Leader now?
Ah Benn gets another work out. Glen, must you abuse the best show in history in that way?
GG @ 15
Could it be that you are applesing and oranging?
It can require a military convoy just to travel between some of the main cities in Afghanistan, so I would be a bit doubtful that the fibre networks would reach anything like about 90% (?) of the population, which is the aim in Australia…
Thin end of the wedge eh Glen?
I reckon the Hammock Man faces a real dilemma. If Turnbull leads the party at the next election, they are going to lose so many seats that they couldn’t possibly win in 2013. If Cossie goes for 2010 they will only lose a few more seats but it will be the end of his political career.
Oh the joys of the liberals in opposition, I love it!
Is this the first time William has linked to Bolt?
http://anz.theoildrum.com/
good site
I agree with that article that its rather silly for those UK citizen permanent residents to get the vote whilest other permanent residents do not. Nevertheless I’d prefer it if we based ones voting rights on residents, not citizenship. There are ex-pats with the vote. Yet there are people who have lived their entire adult life in this country that have never had the opertunity to vote anywhere ever. Back in the day permanent residents could get conscripted but couldn’t vote. Today permanent residents pay tax but can’t vote. Whatever happened to NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! Plenty of other countries use residence as the basis for suffragacy (if thats a word) and it hasn’t destroyed their country.
The Defence Budget doesnt need slimming! lol aka Jumbo one of my favourite characters in Yes Minister.
I wish they made more episodes.
Boerwar,
The story on Radio national said that the infrastructure was in place to reach all parts of the country once the war is over.
I was quite stunned myself. But listen and learn. The stuff I’m talking about is 45 mins in.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/stories/2009/2537987.htm
But what about Ex-Pat Italians who can both vote and Run for the Italian Parliament ?
GG
Thanks, will do… I have to go now but will get back to it.
Cape Verde also has seats set for ex-pats but australia is a land of imigrants not emigrants.
Glen, what sort of man makes his profile as a Junior Barrister with $weets, one of the steppingstones to workchoices, gets involved in the HR Nicholls Society that pushes workchoices, is Treasurer when workchoices is introduced, then sleeps in a hammock rather than come out and face his second electoral rebuff over workchoices?
Remember Bludgers you read it here first;
a) he will be out of high school by then,
b) his voice will have broken by then,
c) an aging, balding, nerdy type,
d) their next great John Howard,
Greg Hunt to make the libs competitive again
Just can’t see it myself
steve
That article is hilarious. I like this bit;
And then to champion someone who is Mike Rann’s Minister for Water Security as being above such grubby tactics as spin is gut-bustingly funny. Maywald and Rann spin faster on water than a back-yard sprinkler, which of course we can’t use in SA.
Yeah in 2016.
OZ,
Sorry, It’s 25 minutes in.
It was a gem Diogenes.
Speaking of spin perhaps the Hammock Man could run a comical election campaign based on his economic genius. Perhaps he could begin the campaign launch with,”Interest Rates will always be lower under a Coalition Government.” His second part of the campaign launch could feature a debt truck with an explanation of how he lost control of the Current Account Deficit while he was Treasurer.
Finns
SBS just had the tree of knowledge on their new garden show
the guy called it montezuema’s tree
But that wont be too hard to bare if Prime Minister Greg Hunt stays PM for 12 years until 2028
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/will-the-assembly-eat-its-greens/1479091.aspx?storypage=0
Interesting article William!
Somehow I knew that the Greens wouldn’t succeed in improving parliamentary answer standards in QT. I just can’t see the old parties doing it. At least they tried.
Number five and counting, Grog. This is just the beginning.
From George M’s piece:
This illustrates that Labor has captured for the moment the centre demographic that both majors have been after in the past 10 years, while the LNP’s image is still hanging out to dry to the right of centre – thanks to Howard’s policies.
Malcolm has been unable to soften that LNP image because of the core rightists still lurking on his shoulder.
The left-tending voter is now looking for policiesmore life-sustaining and progressive than the ALP now offers. It has made its durge-like ”christian democrat” intentions clear as it strives only to keep the LNP out of its former territory.
But as we all now know from the previous thread, because of the unrepresentative system we have, those looking to alternative smaller groups will quite likely be sidelined while the two big players shoulder-charge each other towards the centre of the field on single seat preferences. There’s plenty of fresh air down the sideline but no-one else is allowed to run on and take the ball.
It really is a travesty of representative democracy.
Have you no shame WB!
Gus, SBS? Am watching the ABC1 Garden Show in Mexico.
But be grateful his first name isn’t Chris
The Spoonerisms would be most unfortunate 
Centre, what about “when” he lost his virginity?
JV,
Cry me a river.
Over the last 50 years or so we have had the DLP which was basically a bloc of ALP hating Catholics determined to see them out of power. Once Gough won in 1972, there raison d’etre vanished and their demise occurred rather quickly.
The second was the Democrats who started out as dissatified Libs and ended up fulfilling a role as hand ringing centrists that didn’t like any one making a decision. Once Meg Lees made a decision on the GST their popularity declined rather dramatically and they disappeared from the scene.
Now, we have the Greens who really fulfill the Bambi role in politics. They spout the doggerel of the concerned. But, as has been adequately explained here, most of their support comes from inner suburban enclaves of radical mummy’s boys and girls. Apparently, they are about to support the election of an ex Communist as their new messiah. Don’t like their chances. The Greens are yet another transitory fable of disaffection in the community. How long will they last?
Damn those tech savvy kids of mine and their penchant for renaming channels
NTS get even newer glasses
Gusface, the Bolters supporters will be over here shortly to explain to the misguided lefties here that the answer is to put Costello in now. They are always fun people to deal with.
or is it the end of the beginning??
worse things could befall the nation…
Prime Minister Alex Hawke 2016-2031 yeah there are probably worse things that could happen for your lot lol!
Gus, now is Havana’s City gardens. Amigo Guantanamera,
Glen:
Would you agree that firm and decisive action needs to be taken against the anti-vaccination organisations?
I’m all for tolerating ignorance and stupidity but the anti-vaccination folk are dangerous as well as stupid
That would be bad for your lot as well Glen – it would mean the loonies had taken over the asylum.
Finns,
For you Amigo,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vPScttpHPs
TWP that lot are as stupid as the people who oppose water fluoridation.
TWP,
Can you vaccinate against ignorance and stupidity?
GG, gracia muchacho.
Nah , its way past their bedtime.
Ms Party
Such as?
Also bastardised as “One Tony Lockett”
or my more cruder version – “One Ton of Merda” aka One Ton of “Sh*t”
Finns @ 57. He was singing what’s in 66.
Didn’t stop them from posting about Maxine’s proposed brainwashing of toddlers to be become Leftie, pinko commies on Adelaide Now at Midnight WST.
Frank why are the left bothering with ‘brainwashing’ in pre-school why not wait till they get to school that has been the usual practice.
Everything has become sooo PC now adays and anything whitebread is attacked for being racist.
Diogenes:
Anything – these people are dangerous to children and adults alike – i would pass a law legally dissolving the main Australian anti-vax organisation and confiscate its assets – i would also pass laws making life as uncomfy as possible for anti-vax parents
Who are singing this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NvLkBA9vsQ
Diog, have you been paying attention to the Knowledge Trees of Mexico?
Glen,
I know!
I’ve been so traumatise by PC that I toast all my white bread. It’s safer that way.
esp. when it wont reboot
Let’s face it things are boring now in Australian politics.
2010 will be much more fun, elections galore overseas and at home and a Federal one to boot.
Spoken like a paranoid culture warrior.
Frank, what happened to the black faces?
Frank,
Good get!
Things are dull in Australian politics.
Case in point – William now no longer mentions who is leading in the Federal polls. He just assumes that we all know that Labor is up. The question now is – when will the Coalition next take the lead in a federal poll?
I’m guessing some time in 2011 (after the next election). But I could be wrong…
And Frank, Barry was so much older than, he’s younger than that now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8SfiCnwF28
Oh god, please no… i’ll cry.
I prefer Australian politics to be boring. Much better than the divisive dogwhistling politics of Howard’s time.
Finns
No, I’ve been consoling Mrs D about the quote we got today to have watertanks and underground lines put in so we can have a lawn. I promise to download it though.
Ms Party
Unfortunately, lots of people do stupid things all the time which damage their children and the rest of society. Smoking cigarettes, drinking heavily, not vaccinating, feeding them crap etc etc. It’s pretty hard to single one out as much as we’d like to.
Our “herd immunity” to a few horrible diseases like whooping cough is dropping to the point where we are going to get serious outbreaks. But what to do is the hard thing.
Bob,
I think Glen done a mistake in his post.
He was referring to Austria not Australia
Things will heat up again after the May budget and Turnbull threatens to block everything.
Don’t worry Bob. Alex Hawke is my MP. If he ever becomes PM, and if the money is good from you Bludgers, I’ll go and rub him out
Finns, maybe e) at post 57.
61-39. Our only hope is 2013. I suggest a Victorian dream team of Peter Costello and Greg Hunt or a Queensland dream team of Mal Brough and Peter Dutton. It’s a good start.
And Barry is now a Born Again Christian singing Gospel music.
And trivia buffs should note that he recorded the original version of California Dreaming using the same backing track, which was later used for the Mamas and Papas version and if you listen very carefully to that version, you can just hear very faintly Barry singing “All the Trees”, as the vocal track wasn’t erased properly.
Bree, leadership counts but we need some good policies and Turnbull has provided 0 so far.
I really think Mal Brough should be given a safe seat for 2010 and Peter Dutton in 2013 if he loses his seat in 2010.
2013 we’ll have a good crack like the ALP had in 2001. So we have to sort ourselves out now.
Bree
option 1
go for the happy clappers- Abbott and Bishop
option 2
go for the comedy buffs- Abbott and Costello
option 3
go for the twins vote-Bishop and Bishop
option 4
go for the undead/zombie vote-Ruddock and Tuckey
option 5
bend over and kiss your ass goodbye till 2021
Wow Frank!
Next you’ll be telling us that Phil Spector produced Imagine.
I agree, Glen. We are very fortunate not to be in the same position as Labor going into the 1998 federal election. In fact, if we get the same swing Labor got in 1998, then will be in office.
Bree we just have to make sure we dont get destroyed in 2010 so that 2013 is out of reach.
Hah. Glen already preparing for the worst?
Actually, it will be interesting to see what the redistribution committee does to Dickson.
Bree,
The Libs are up the creek in a barb wire canoe catching farts with a tennis racket.
Bree, two points about your “dream team”"
1. just dont confuse H with the C.
2. Apparently the day when Hunt lost his virginity, he shouted “look, no hand”.
Frank @ 92: “All the leaves”, surely.
What’s wrong with Peter Hostello?
Errrr, William, wrong way around
Yep, that’s it – thanks for the correction
Speaking of Eve of Destruction, apparently 3AW overnight host Keith McGowan was a 6PR Good Guy when it was released in 1965 was so moved by the song he actually played it several times in a row – which is rather ironic, considering his now conservative political views.
Actually here is Barry’s original recording of California Dreaming – 3rd post. Note the Mamas & Papas doing the Backing and the Harmonica Solo instead of the flute.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2016
Gentlemans,
My point was to try and give some context to a number as large as $43bn…..and thereby highlight Malcolm’s problem in opposing the idea…nobody gives a sh1t when Rudd rolls out big numbers…they are too big to comprehend properly and they are beginning to form an integral part of his popularity
Lets look at some of the responses..
1) $42 bn is reasonable becuase the government is only up for half of it
2) $42bn is Ok becuase they will take 8 years to spend it
3) etc
As Kevin Rein would say, “My point is this” – I haven’t heard any basis for estimating the cost at $43 bn, and I’ve not heard of any business imperitive that justifies the cost…how else do you explain the failed tender
EVEN BREE doesn’t think Kevin Rudd is a one-term wonder anymore! Not a single Liberal on PB thinks so now!
But Bolt does. The poor deluded soul.
I should add, I love the idea of Australia having a Fibre to the Home network..
It truly is a nation building concept….can’t wait for it to happen
glen, youre good crack in 2013 theory assumes that the opposition sees the error of their ways and changes tactic and course- they show no sign of doing this now and a loss in 2010 may achieve that, but what if it doesnt?
Mr Squiggle, as the Three Stooges would say: “dont look at us”
You continue to excel as PB’s resident musical guru
ps dont tell me you like BM (except “mandy”)
Why does Mr Squiggle’s posts remind me of his pencil nosed namesake ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IWlOtJ5X_k
Indeed Andrew.
GP/Glen/Bree continue to be as deluded as the party they support. As http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25318028-28737,00.html says, the Liberals will need to do more than just wait for government to fall in to their lap, or even develop policies, to regain federal office. They need to dump the Howard legacy and move back toward the centre. Until they do so, they won’t regain office for quite a while.
Here’s a song for the Costello ascension….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WsvOIAOk0&feature=related
and how is bolt paid as a commentator for the herald sun and a panelist on insiders when his comments about Rudd’s so called problems and one-term wonder status are so out of touch with reality??? ok, so he is a conservative mouthpiece, far enough if you like that sort of thing, but how can he consistently get away with his Rudd pronouncements with Rudd flying high in the polls and not a shred of evidence to the contrary?? And why did he see the writing on the wall for Howard when his 2PP poll numbers were the same as Turnbulls are now?? Infuriating
I wonder if Howard would have more than 18% PPM rating right now compared to Turnbull lol!
The Whig Party,
I agree that those who resist vaccination are largely misguided. I understand that most of them were concerned about the the possible side-effect associated with various vaccines. As is the case with any other medication/therapy, these side-effects are generally rare and do not result in permanent harm to the child. It has to be noted that in the rarest of circumstance serious side-effect do develop and it is these that tend to be dramaticised and blown out of all proportions.
I think however, although there are some rationale supporting it, it will be legally challenging to outlaw an anti-vaccination party. The hygiene standard/vaccination rate in Australia is so high that it is unlikely an epidemic of the diseases prevented by vaccination will occur, due to herd immunity. Therefore it is unlikely that the potential detrimental effect of not vaccinating children will ever be revealed on a large scale. We are probably OK if a small proportion of the population is not adequately vaccinated. The rationale for outlawing smoking is a lot stronger than but unfortunately we will probably never see a law to such effect. The fine line between personal freedom and public welfare is ever so difficult to clarify.
Would you agree that firm and decisive action needs to be taken against the anti-vaccination organisations?
Such as?
Use bigger needles?
GG @ 58
I agee with you on these points GG – the DLP was a cancerous growth that attached itself to the ALP and attempted to spread its black tentacles through the veins of the (then) strong party espousing laudable ideals. Even to the extent of my letter-boxing for the 1972 election with house-mate members of the party on behalf of one of the great characters of Aussie politics in one Fred Daly in the seat of Grayndler.
The point to make from this though is that with PR, the modern DLP (its equivalent exists in phantom form, at least in NSW) or Opus Dei or worse – or even the ALP left (I know that makes you shudder) – could have its own place looking for coalition with other groups, in the feasible hope of being part of government without being subjugated to the party’s domineering faction.
All your other remarks about small parties are just a big party guy poking sticks from a complacent position of power at a large and legitimate segment of society that is effectively disenfranchised.
Mesma on Lateline to confront the Big Swinging Dicks
Oh gawd. Bishop on Lateline… I don’t know if I can stand it…
Tony has two! So that explains it.
replace (two!) with (more than one!)
Every time Labor is in power, Qantas gets into strife. Not surprised!
But it is no longer Government owned
Not Rudd’s problem 
Nor his fault.
JV,
You were there and miss the point! Good for you.
My observations are a narrative not a menu at a reastaurant.
My point is there always seems to be a disaffected group around which a small but virulent posse congregate. History seems to show that their entusiasm wains after a generation.
No one is disenfranchised in Australia. It is just that some groups try harder to get their views heard through mainstream political Parties and others choose to sit outside.
Gary,
Just because you are totally innocent is no excuse.
Surely, you have been married enough to know this truth.
William, that Mackeras article is the second page of a three page article – full thing is here. I thought it looked a bit weird when Maywald got mentioned with no introduction…
Also, Mackeras picks Brock to win in Frome (and has a good old spray at Rob Kerin while he’s at it), and Labor to beat Kris Hanna in Mitchell. I’m not sure of that one myself… if there’s a smallish swing to the Libs, then Labor would get less vote (good for Hanna) but the Liberals have a better chance of coming second (bad for Hanna). Based on that, I’d say it’s in his court – if he’s been popular locally and adds on a few %, he’ll win. If he hasn’t, he won’t.
There’s also a rather odd thing about Mike Rann maybe running in Norwood (one of the possibles to go Liberal), instead of his outer suburbs seat. Can’t see it happening, but it reminds me of the stink WA Labor kicked up by dropping candidates into seats at the expense of the existing MP. If Alan Carpenter had ditched Willagee to run in Mt Lawley, and got the same result the actual ALP candidate did, that would’ve been about eight different kinds of funny. Don’t do it, Rann…
Bishop already looking like a fool…
Poor Googly Eyes…What is the Liberal Party policy on Boat Arrivals???
Maybe she should Google it!
See what happens when you get photographed with a young John Howard ?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/14/2542721.htm?section=justin
And no, I cannot link to that picture as it seems the website no longer exists.
perhaps thats too broad a brush your using there, GG.
But I get your drift.
“Chucky’s Mum” wants to take an axe to the boats
She’s already had plenty of practice with her little sister
Man, she’s toast
Googly Eyes does not want to talk about the Big Swinging Dicks!
Swing low Sweet chariot
Definitely thick sliced
But she thinks she has Bedroom Eyes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rytEcMkk0QM&fmt=18.
133 Gusface
Yes, and the drift is to protect the big party hegemony whatever the threat, including equitable representation.
There’s an imminent smell of death in the Lateline studios this evening…
Bullbutter !!!
Tony Jones is a fool for persisting with that story by Milne.
“Every time Labor is in power, Qantas gets into strife. Not surprised!”
I was under the impression that if Qantas had been sold to the consortium as Peter Costello approved then it would now be BANKRUPT.
There are so many things wrong with your comment it is not funny
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24584759-23349,00.html?from=public_rss
QANTAS Airfares will always be lower under LABOR!
How dare he ask questions!!!
He should have know Julie wouldnt answer.
Speaking of Swing Dicks, here is the Italian Version of California Dreaming by the aptly named Dik Dik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqRmtZFMU5o
Tony Jones is sexist asking these innuendo laden questions. Whatever happened to HostieGate?
He did carry on a bit long with it, but Julie wasn’t particularly good at changing the subject
I think you are confusing quinces with cumquats
ie the party system ensures that radical views are diluted somewhat.
Under your PR advocacy we could see the rise of a radical left or right party,
if anything the majors (greens included) act as a political “filter”.
It seems to work rather well
Frank
I think number 8 in thiis gallery of Howie’s earlier days is the photo you couldn’t find
Number 1 is a corker, Howie in a dancathon! lol
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gallery/0,22056,5025864-5010140-8,00.html
Yep, socialist Alliance on the Left, and Stormfront on the Right .
Thanks for that Vera, and I’ve now pasted the direct link to the pic
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5666089,00.jpg
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gallery/0,22056,5025864-5010140-10,00.html
Howard celebrating the defeat of Hawke’s Australia Card… too bad he wanted to introduce it when he was PM.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5666071,00.jpg
And I wonder if they were dancing to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOqtmmwa0d0
LOL Frank, but the title should be “The oldest swinging dick in town”
Actually that song was a Chart hit in Perth in 1981
Just had a read of some of the comments on Bolt’s blog. Man, were all Einstiens over here compared to those neanderthals, even the Green supporters!
Always a scary and dangerous exercise. Yes, these people actually exist. They would have voted conservative in 1943.
JV,
“Yes, and the drift is to protect the big party hegemony whatever the threat, including equitable representation”.
Without me, Australia’s fair democracy would descend in to a farce of minor proportions.
I feel like I’ve done good deeds by just being normal.
It looks like Peter Costello has finally slipped the knot and fallen through the trapdoor. It’s not hard to see who this piece was aimed at. Only thing is, the polls for the past two years have shown that it doesn’t work.
Why, oh why, do they persist. Costello is showing his desperation now too.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-immoral-to-hold-the-wrong-views-20090414-a674.html?page=-1
Costello? Writing opinion pieces on SMH? Has the world gone mad?
What a self righteous, sanctimonious sore loser. That’s the sort of attitude that’s been trademark Costello throughout his entire career, and not one that will endear him to the people.
He’s a legend in his own lunchbox, and unelectable.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25336674-5005962,00.html
The Government should just focus on following its agenda and forget the polls and the Opposition. They really need to be sure footed all the way to the next election.
Rudd Labor is more likely to be a reformist government in a second term if it can get there with the right numbers. Lots of hard serious work to do.
I wouldn’t be celebrating but concentrating on the game.
Scorpio
It is a strange sort of article in some ways. Costello the snide, cynical smirker in print! But the really interesting thing for me is the comments Costello makes about climate change.
His sneer about climate change is that the issues are defined in such a way as to have a moral dimension and this enables one side to be holier than thou. I assume, because he is not transparent about it, that this is an allusion to the right orthodoxy that environmentalists who are concerned by global warming are ‘religious’ about it. (In case you are confused, this religion is bad. Hillsong religion is good.)
Here are the relevant words from the article:
‘Take climate change. The way the argument is being presented you can be for aggressive targets to cut emissions or you are for rising tides, mass drownings, increased heat-related deaths, the destruction of the planet and the death of polar bears.
Characterising this as a moral question allows the high priests of emission targets to actually measure the morality of their opponents. Supporters of a 20 per cent cut are moral, 10 per cent morally inferior, supporters of 5 per cent are grossly immoral, and so on.’
Here are some questions for Mr Costello:
1. Why, did the Howard/Costello Govenrment do nothing but go the white ant when given the opportunity to influence the development of a concrete global response to Global Warming?
2. If there really is no moral dimension to statistics or policy consequences, would killing a million or so Iraqis (as achieved by the US in conjunction with Britain and Australia) be morally the same as killing no Iraqis at all, two million Iraquis or the lot?
3. If the science predicts with a reasonable degree of likelihood that lots of people will die in various ways as a result of climate change, and, in Government, all your actions are in line with what King Coal wants, ie to promote global warming, is there a moral dimension to the Government’s non-action?
4. Or, did the Howard/Costello Government operate in some sort of vacuum in which policies and their consequences were considered to be morality-free?
I would suggest that Mr Costello goes back to the Hillsong High Priests for further instructions on the nature of Government, the consequences of Government policies and morality.
He may also wish to think about how he presents himself in the article. Is Australia ready for an Opposition Leader who is still not willing to take global warming seriously enough to do anything but sneer and dog whistle to diehard denialists?
The Liberals in Opposition have yet to get onto the following Golden Rules for when in Opposition:
Rule 1. ‘When in doubt, don’t say anything.’
Rule 2. ‘Take your time, you are likely to have plenty of it.’
Rule 3. ‘Develop some coherent policies.’
Rule 4. ‘Don’t piss off potential voters for nothing.’
Rule 5. ‘Try to look and talk the part.’
Rule 6. ‘Remember that the Government is the enemy, not your colleagues.’
Rule 7. ‘Think before you dog whistle.’
and three special Golden Rules for Costello:
Rule 8. ‘Sneerers and smirkers do not even faintly begin to look like potenital prime ministers.’
Rule 9. ‘There is a moral/ethical dimension to Government decisions.’
Rule 10. ‘When most of the population is quite rightly concerned about global warming, you would be bloody silly to make yourself look as if you are in the camp of the denialists.’
The SMH has been pretty much right of center since before the election. Labor has few friends and more enemies in the MSM.
For those of you who have become confused about appropriate GFC responses by governments.
Warning: this clip contains a cartoon scene involving the decapitation of a chook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjnD4AKVxw&NR=1http://partnerpage.google.com/dell.com/en_au?hl=en&client=dell-row&channel=au&ibd=1080907
Maybe for you Scorpio, but I’m from WA, so you’ll have to make allowances.
Who do you think the piece was aimed at? Rudd? Ms Neale? Mr Thompson? Mr Turnbull?
I could make no sense of it, other than it being a smug undergraduate attempt to show everyone what a clever dick he is in his obliqueness of reference and mastery of indirect invective.
The man gets an opportunity to contribute an article to a National newspaper at a time he is angling for the leadership of his party, and he regurgitates this temporally irrelevant drivel?
No policy exposition, no differentiation of political stance, no polemic which advances and enhances his stature as a leadership aspirant?
The best he can say for himself is that he never gets drunk enough to make a fool of himself? (In any case his sometime drinking buddy, Bressington, recently put paid to that indulgent delusion.)
This man is a personal and political sloth who would rather live in in the shadow of his past imagined and self ascribed glory than make any effort to claim a position in the real world.
The world certainly will have gone mad if we start seizing anti-vaccination activist assets (unless on “just terms” – thank you ‘The Castle’ a.k.a. ‘Constitutional Law 101). This is really authoritarian stuff. I thought the whig party were into liberalism, by 19th century standards that is. Firstly we have freedom of speech in this country and that extends to the totally bonkers like holocaust denial. Anti-vac is only slightly bonkers and they do make some good points just like the “Vitamin C is fricken awsome but the drug companies don’t want you to know” people. Secondly, you can keep your laws off my body, i’ll do what I like with it!
That dude righting in that article in the australian almost suggests that the Liberal Party should give up their principles and move to the centre of the spectrum. Whats the point? If they start acting like the ALP, even if get elected they won’t have made Australia closer to their view of the ideal. It’ll be like it is under the ALP. Unless of cource they’re only pretending to move to the centre or have absolutly no principles and just want power for its own sake + the purks.
GG says “My point is there always seems to be a disaffected group around which a small but virulent posse congregate. History seems to show that their entusiasm wains after a generation.”
The main motivators for the current disaffected group is the eco-sphere getting totally buggered over. I can’t see their entusiasm waining after a generation over that issue, can you?
What a city-centric report by Ker in the Age!
He reports that Melbourne’s water storages are nearly at a historic low 28%! Golly! What about country Victoria? Ah yes, Ker is galvanized into action on the Brumby Government’s role in either falsifying or not falsifying some stats. And ah yes, the North South pipeline…which it turns out may not be all that useful in getting water to thirsty Melburnians. Possibly because there is f/a water in Eildon.
My questions to Ker: Where is your balance? What about all those in Northern Victoria who rely on the Murray/Goulburn for their livelihoods? What about the Murray/Darling Basin storages which are at 11%? What about the algal bloom conditions from Hume to Swan Hill?
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/dam-water-levels-dwindling-to-historic-low-20090414-a697.html
Yes Bob, I just watched Bishop’s interview and was struck by the fact that she repeatedly referred to Milne’s allegations as “the internal macchinations of the Liberal Party”, to which, of course, she saw no profit in referring.
Not “Milne’s allegations” or “outrageous claims” but “internal macchinations of the Liberal Party”.
Did anyone see that program on SBS tonight about workers cooperatives in Argentina? Brilliant! They don’t need the bosses coz they run the factories more efficiently without them. Nor do they need pollies powerless to the IMF extortionists, or some bloody Marxist politburro burocrat directing them from above, trying to tell them how to run things. In short, they are most content and productive when they operate without hierachy. The grassroots taking things into thier own hands after “THE MAN” had failed them. Now if only they had continued such a process outside of the workplace.
By 2100, plus two degrees, or plus six degrees, or something in between?
The critical thing to keep in mind is that while the planetary average might be one of those figures, the actual heat will be unevenly distributed. Anyway, here is the latest on what a whole bunch of scientists think the numbers might be:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/14/global-warming-target-2c?source=cmailer
The Heysen Molotov
Argentina, along with Australia, about a hundred years ago, used to be one of the top countries in terms of per capita wealth.
For whatever reasons, Australia has managed to maintain itself as an attractive destination for foreign capital. Argentina reverso. Not only has foreign capital stayed away, but local capital has skedaddled. Capital was being bled white not by incompetent bosses (usually, after all, in the minority), or the pollies (except for coups, voted in by majorities), or even by the nasty IMF (only called in to pick up the pieces when it was game over). No, capital is shy of Argentina for an entirely different reason. I will leave it to you to figure out why capital should shy away from one of the most richly-resourced countries in the world.
Argentinians still do not seem to get it. The recent punitive taxes on the export of farming products is yet another example of why capital is shy of Argentina.
From what you are saying, having destroyed their capital markets, the only thing they appear to have left is groups of workers getting on with it, no-one else being interested.
I wish them well. But for this workers’ nirvana to be anything more than isolated flashes in the pan, they will need to be able to attract capital. To achieve this in today’s world, they will have to stop bad-mouthing all bosses, stop bad-mouthing the IMF, stop ensuring that there is little or not return on capital, and get on with developing a win-win between capital and labour markets.
Regarding Mackerras/Independent Weekly…
http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/ask-not-for-whom-the-bell-polls/1471529.aspx?storypage=0
There was an election last month? Am I going to get a non-voting fine now? lol.
bob 1234
haha… Interesting to see that those with perenniel irrigation crops around Chaffee are particularly pissed off.
Assuming that the current drought is being made worse by global warming factors (which is an assumption but a somwhat likely assumption), the sitting member could just about become the first Australian MP to los her seat because of global warming.
I still don’t know if Mackerras is right about Maywald losing Chaffey.
Advertiser polls are notoriously unreliable – the sample size was small – and it only asked what party one would vote for, without mentioning who it was – Maywald is Maywald, she is more or less an independent. They should have said National rather than Maywald. I refuse to believe her primary vote has dived from 55% to 10%.
They should have said Maywald rather than National, in the poll, is what I meant to say.
I thought it was common consensus that the 2006 Norwood result was closer than it ought to have been because of Nigel Smart’s candidacy. Smart’s not standing this time, so it’ll be tough for the Libs.
I take it Mackerras has just looked at the pendulum and chosen Labor’s three most marginal seats. He probably doesn’t even follow Australian rules football.
However, I don’t put stock in the article’s claim the Premier may contest Norwood.
bob1234
I don’t really know the ins and outs of Chaffee at all. I suspect it is near the federal seat of Mallee (the one that has Mildura in it?). If so, it is far, far right country. The issue for those with perenniel crops is that there is not enough irrigation water to keep them alive, let alone get a crop out of them. This would represent a huge investment loss per hectare – and is one of the things that will be hugely destructive of the social and economic life of several centres along the Murray.
Such folk may not have voted for Maywold in the first place, but they may feel that they have nothing more to lose.
As I posted above somewhere the latest MDBA drought report is very depressing.
Just read Brian Costar’s excellent article on Ed Kilensteyn and the AEC. Firstly its a good article, but secondly it really does highlight what a weasel Eric Abetz is. Someone shoudl ask some hard questions fo both him and whoever introduced the electoral act changes in the lower house in the next sitting. They have been proven wrong by the independant umpire.
Also the idea of on-line registration sounds very sensible. Lets give Turnbull an opportunity to vote for progress.
Carl Ungerer writes a blog piece in the OO claiming that “China is not a great power”.
No comments.
No wonder.
The disclaimer at the end of the piece says “these are his own views”. Considering who owns the OO and who is doing a lot of business with China, again, no wonder.
Carl is a fool. I said on this blog almost two years ago that the US was in or headed for a severe recession and by the time it had recovered China would have almost caught up with them. I underestimated how much the US bank collapse would take the rest of the world with them, including China. But China is still growing, and it hasn’t finished yet. They are still in the midst of building a huge expansion in capacity. When they are finished the world will be quite different.
Fulvio Sammut @ 170,
FS, I think you pretty much answered your own question there. It is clear to me that every reference is designed to lower voters perceptions of Kevin Rudd by using comparisons etc with others actions including his own (Costello’s).
The Libs seem to be locked in on the assumption that the best strategy to improve their PPM and 2PP numbers is to bring down those of Rudd and the Government. Of course, it has simply not entered their heads that they should instead be focussed on a strategy that “improves” their standing and leave the voters to make up their own minds, in their own good time about the performance of Rudd and his Government.
It will prosper or fail on the quality and effectiveness of its decisions and policies and no amount of muck throwing or negativity by the Opposition and its media sycophants and cheer squad can turn around the publics opinion of the competence or otherwise of the Government.
They prefer to make decisions like that themselves and need “NO” prompting or assistance in that regard and switch off when pounded day after day with carping negativity and low grade muck raking. The Coalition are now too stuck in past practice and too divided to see the fundamental error of their ways, although a fair number of media commentators have been pointing this out to them for a while now, unsuccessfully, it seems.
Costello seems to be despairing that Turnbull appears to be creating such a large gap in the PPM and 2PP figures that it is now totally impossible for him to coast into the job as the Party’s messiah and is throwing the kitchen sink in a vain attempt to arrest Rudd’s momentum and turn the figures around. Lots of luck min that endeavour, Pete!
For those who missed it, here is a link to that piece. It looks as though most media outlets have been offered the piece for publication as the original link was from the Oz.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/opinions-count-for-much-more-in-modern-politics-20090414-a67s.html?page=-1
That’s not the way Oppositions operate. The number of people who will actively choose to vote for an Opposition as opposed to vote against the Government are relatively small. It’s true that some type of balance needs to be struck though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/15/2543090.htm
lol
ltep @ 188,
I’ve been a close observer of politics for 40 years and I can’t remember “any” Opposition constantly employing a similar strategy so consistently for so long for so little effect.
Then how do you explain the election of the Whitlam Government, Hawke’s, Howard’s or Rudd’s. More than a “relatively small” number of the electorate certainly decided to vote against the Government in those cases and what about 1998? Your statement there just doesn’t make any sense!
Re 183,
Speaking of progressive ideas, I heard this from a cop over the long weekend. We were pulled over in a queue of cars for breath tests and while he was taking my husband’s details, he said that “there is consideration for a national drivers license and the only reason it hasn’t come off is that local areas and councils don’t want to give up the revenue.” In principle, I can’t see anything wrong with a national drivers license, seems like a wonderful idea.
At least with Hawke, Howard and Rudd I think the people had grown tired of the old governments (Fraser, Keating and Howard respectively). As long as the alternative wasn’t awful it was inevitable that there was going to be change. More people chose to vote against the government than to vote for the Opposition (although I think you could make the case that Hawke certainly had a lot of positive vote).
You can’t remember Oppositions trying to drag down the popularity of a Government? Odd.
ltep, I think you should read that again.
I never said that at all!
I can “remember Oppositions trying to drag down the popularity of a Government” but not maintaining that strategy “constantly” and “so consistently for so long for so little effect”.
It seems to me to be odd that an opposition would keep up with a clearly flawed strategy.
I think Gary’s point is the crucial one here – what’s confusing is not that the opposition is trying to drag down the popularity of the govt. More that they’re pursuing a strategy that has headed no benefits whatsoever and has led to one (and soon two) leaders’ demise.
I guess the question I would put is can you compare it to the Crean era?
The OO is running a poll at the moment that is headed “Are the stimulus packages working?” Then you find the actual question is something like “Do you agree with the Federal Government that without the stimpacs things would be far worse?”
After voting you see the results with the heading “Quantas Job Cuts: The Nation” on top of the results.
Predictably, the result is 70% NO with 3500 odd respondents. The fact that the second stimpac has just hit the streets hasn’t crossed their minds of course at the OO and the very organised Lib voting machine is in full flight.
That piece by Costello in the SMH reveals the character flaws that have been suspected for a long time. It’s a small-minded, snarky, schoolyard, low level form of attack, that inevitably dimishes him further in the process.
The MSM has been waiting with baited breath for the emergence of Gravitas Pete, the big picture man who can save the LNP; the ALP is madly researching his popularity, the moment draws near … And he comes out with a pathetic little squeak like that.
When Howard was somewhat popular I remember Labor realising that the last thing you did was attack Howard personally. Attack the policy but not the man. Later on however when Howard became less “popular” the more personal attacks on his character carried some weight and they pursued these. The more the Libs go after Rudd personally at the moment while he’s popular the more people see the Libs in a negative light. When will they learn that?
A few policies and answers to issues and agreement with the government on occasion instead of carping would go along way to helping their cause as well.
Who would the ALP more like to face in 2010 though Costello or Turnbull?
Anyone else watching the Senate Climate Policy Committee? The National Farmers Federation has appeared and told the committee that it has *no opinion* on whether climate change is real or not. How they can possibly show up with a pathetic position is beyond me.
199 Glen, both are a free kick. I’ll take either thanks.
Is there a timetable for the Senate inquiry? Eg. Who is speaking when.
There’s only one left and that is Costello. Perhaps Glen has forgotten that once an Opposition Leader’s Dissatifaction rating is higher than the satisfaction rating then Turnbull can only be seen as a follower not a Leader.
simple maths Glen MT= lose an extra 10-15 seats, hockey 5-10, Costello 0-5 (but stuff his chances of 2013) It’s actually a hard desicion
I found it.
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/climate_ctte/hearings/150409.pdf
Nothing particular exciting. The scientists should be fun though.
JV,
While I agree with your analysis of Costello from that recent article, I can’t help feeling there is a reverse ferret going on. I doubt that Costello wants the leadership atm so presents an article that is shallow and snarky to avoid having greatness thrust upon him.
I suspect Hockey is Costello’s preferred sacrifice.
The scientists are up at 2.15.
Professor Robert Carter,
Environmental Geologist, James Cook University
Associate Professor Stewart Franks,
School of Engineering, University of Newcastle
Professor David Karoly, University of Melbourne
Mr Peter Cozier, Wentworth Group of Concerned Scientists
Dr Graeme Pearman, Arts, Geography and Environmental Science, Monash University
Dr Michael Raupach, Continental Geochemical Cycles Research Team, CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research
Mr Andrew McIntosh, ANU Centre for Climate Law and Policy
I’m told that one of these is a CC-sceptic, but I don’t know which one.
It’s not graeme pearman- i know him personally
Robert Carter is the sceptic.
I don’t know if I’d call Stewart Franks a “sceptic”, but he isn’t a fan of computer modelling.
Shame they aren’t in the roundtable with the other scientists. How often do you actually get to see actual scientists and researchers in the field discuss the topic amongst one another?
Stewart Franks will be interesting with this sort of quote:
Re Carter, what do geologists know about CC? Is he going to argue that the geological record shows that climate is cyclical and that the currently observed CC is not anthropogenic?
That’s probably his thesis.
He works for the Institute of Public Affairs as well, so we already know he’s a bit dim.
This is a chapter in a paper he wrote
So he doesn’t really know anything but his trading on the fact that his profession ends in “ist” to confuse people into thinking he DOES know what he’s talking about.
That’s a perfectly reasonable statement, whether it’s correct or not, and doesn’t make him a sceptic.
I’d be interested to hear from someone credible who thinks that (a) the scientific projections on CC are correct, but (b) that CC is not anthropogenic. These are the real doomsday scenarists, because if they are right we really are doomed.
Robert Carter is the bloke who John Laws always had on his program when CC came up. Of course Laws then gave all the greenies (watermelons, he called them) and the Laborites a big serve and claimed Carter was the eminent authority on CC.
Goldman on 2SM breakfast (which is broadcast in my area) also uses Carter. Goldman can be a bigger nutter than many on CC and always makes sure that only the deniers are heard on his program.
Carter often says there is no CC because the GB Reef is fine.
Some pretty eloquent destruction of the arguments for a “market based” approached.
I suspect everyone will get what they want to get out of this CC Senate inquiry. The deniers, the skeptcs and the believers will all hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest. Back to square one. Call me cynical.
Isn’t that what usually happens at inquiries…
Government cherry picks what they want, Opposition picks what they want…
You’re cynical.
And we all will cherry pick that which supports our arguments.
Regards,
Cynical
I’m not an ALP member, but I would think either would be OK, but for different reasons.
Turnbull’s not a threat because he’s not a politician. He’s a smartarse pretending to be a politician. Once he pretended to be an internet guru. Then a banker. Then a lawyer. Then a Republican. Now a politician. Get it? He’s everybody’s man and nobody’s friend except his own.
Costello’s not a threat because he’s a coward, dressed up as a politician who can’t resist the temptation to take the low road when his urgers flatter him, especially when his opponent is likely to be weak or non-existent. And he is easily fooled, as he was when Howard (his junior in the party at the time: Costello was Deputy Leader, Howard was a backbencher) conned him into giving up the PM-ship in return for Howard having a couple of years go at it.
Actually Howard’s big con served Costello very poorly in a number orf ways. One, it deprived him of the immediate Prime Ministership. Two, it showed him to be a coward who wouldn’t even risk a slight chance of losing when he thought victory could be handed to him on a platter (which it wasn’t… ho-ho-ho… and even when it was handed to him on a platter in 2007 and 2008 he squibbed it… he-he-he). Third, it convinced Howard that Costello was not the right type of person to be Prime Minister… one of the few Howard decisions I – and millions of voters – agree with to this day.
Costello shackled (as he was at the Press Club debate with Swan prior to the last election) is a nobody. Unless he has his admiring sycophants around him, telling him how wonderful he is in QT or wherever, he’s a rather flat speaker. Turnbull is the opposite in the public speaking stakes. But in Turnbull’s case it’s all puffery and wind (as in “windbag”).
Either would be perfect to deliver Labor another term in office. To tell you the truth, I can’t think of anyone currently serving in the Libs who would be electable at the national level in the short or long term.
Govt has had 2 press conferences this morning, Julia on ABC learning centres and Swanny and Roxon announcing that Alcopops will be reintroduced in May
Oz, can you post a link to an article or paper refuting Robert Carter? I’m googling but can’t find one. (I have a good reason for asking)
Diogenes:
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25336474-2682,00.html
Adam
Here is a specific rebuttal of each of Bob Carter’s arguments.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/12/spot-the-recycled-denial-v-%E2%80%93-prof-bob-carter/
Nice one, Diogenes.
I was going to say no one bothers refuting random people who can’t even get their ideas published in scientific circles.
So it appears it’s no one besides bored bloggers.
Diogenes, contrary to all my previous statements to the contrary, you are a scholar and a gentleman. You are free to quote that back to me next time I call you an idiot.
bob1234
It’s a crock. VRE will move into whatever new area the patients move into. If Hill hadn’t cancelled the redevelopment three years ago, we would have single rooms in the RAH by now. It’s shameless fear-mongering from an imbecilic Health Minister. All he’s doing is running down his own hospitals and petrifying patients who need to go to the RAH. That’s the oppositions job!
Is he closing Flinders, the WCH and QEH? They have all had VRE and don’t have single rooms.
But that’s the whole debate. Redevelop, or move to new. The govt chose the latter.
bob
Single rooms are better for infection control but mainly it is lazy doctors who don’t wash their hands. No redevelopment or new hospital will fix that. VRE is a tiny problem and shouldn’t enter into a major decision like moving etc.
I predict we will see Hill on TV tonight using it as an argument to move and I also predict we will see Jim Katsaros making the arguments I have made.
I should add that I am ambivalent about moving or redeveloping. I remain to be convinced either way.
The article says it is a sticky disease, you only need to be in the same room. Hand washing doesn’t seem to come in to it.
Alexander the great, Vlad the Impaler, Diogenes the Ambivalent.
Nice ring to it, and not without a ring of truth.
228, So Dio this professor. Which ministry does he hold in the Rann government?
Dio will argue that Hill dumped the renovations to the RAH that would have given it single rooms – but that’s the whole debate, renovate or move.
I sometimes get the feeling Dio is against state Labor for the hell of it
Bowell is not only an ignorant fool, he is also a boor and a bully. But we already knew this.
Gary
Single rooms will slow it but not stop it. And Turnidge should know that sixteen cases isn’t an “epidemic”, even if he only works at the Children’s Hospital.
None of the MSM has reported this at all. It goes to show that “Yellow Peril” flag that was flown by Turnbull, Bishop, Hockey etc of the last few weeks never got up. They are 40-50 years behind the time. What a pitiful bunch.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/15/2543490.htm
bob
1. VRE is basically irrelevant.
2. Even if it was important, there would be no difference between renovating and moving.
Dio – “It’s a crock. VRE will move into whatever new area the patients move into.”
Actually bob, Dio did refute what the good professor was saying ie that “the only way to slow the “epidemic” was by putting people in single rooms.”
Dio then went on to blame the Health minister for this line of argument put by the professor.
That’s my reading of it anyway.
I think since the last senators vacated the premises last July it has actually been quite interesting in the Democrats. I personal was involved in setting up http://newdemocrats.org.au, which if we get the voting stuff right will be quite cool.
He’s saying exactly what we predicted he would say.
Adam, you better be working hard.
Why isn’t A-PAC covering this Environmental Senate Committee live instead of the bloody Media one?
Many people are working hard on this, never fear.
http://newdemocrats.org.au/people/aronpaul/203/
actually a well balanced article…well it does come from a democrat.
Seems the Liberal Party has changed ever since the 1980s into a far more conservative outfit then it originally started with.
That is a no brainer. But the fact remains us Non-Labor supporters are in the wilderness for probably a long time.
Who’s the lady talking now?
lol glen, I was about to post that
He’s not quite correct about the laissez faire bits but he’s more or less on the money.
And I know Adam will slam him for his stance on Labor.
HAH, well done Adam.
He is true about the part about Menzies not calling the new party Conservatives.
Still where does that leave the Liberals????
If the ALP has moved to the right then where can the Liberals go? They cant go to the left because it would destroy their base of support and they cant go to the right for fear of becoming too marginalised.
Essentially they’re stuffed because all they have is that they are superior economic managers but socially they offer nothing.
The Liberals have got to become more competitive in the States first before we ever think we have got a chance to win back the government federally.
What, swinging in hammocks doing nothing during boom times?
After Glen’s last two posts my head is spinning … In vino veritas?
Glen,
The Libs lost their “superior economic manager” mantle under Julie Bishop’s reign as Opposition Treasury spokesperson.
Fulvio,
The way Glen’s going there will definately be a “wrath of grapes” experience.
Are the Libs and Nats really going to run an argument that CC is not real? That’s what they seem to be building too.
Doug Cameron is hilarious.
Unfortunately whatever lead we did have was lost due to Rudd’s leadership during the economic crisis though Turnbull did put in a good job whilst he was against Swan.
So at best we are par with the ALP on economics, maybe ahead on defence and behind everywhere else, which is a joke! It is almost as if we’ve abandoned doing anything substantial in these areas because no one would take us seriously or support us on this issue so they just leave it up to the ALP.
If we get pumped in 2010 i would expect a push to merge the two parties on the non-labor side, but i should hope they dont make the same mistake as the LNP and instead create a new name for a political organisation.
If it is true and if the Libs get in the low 30s for a primary vote then some big questions will need to be asked. I cannot really see in Victoria my state the Liberals ever winning government, the ALP holds seats on margins of 20 or 30+ 2PP and those that were once Liberal seats under Kennett are at 10% in favour of the ALP.
Im getting disillusioned with the non-labor side of politics not so much on our policies or lack there of, i can probably only name 1 or 2 if that, but mainly because i see our electoral success as unlikely in the short-med term.
Boswell is an out-and-out denialist. Cash (and also McDonald, who doesn’t seem to be present) are more ambiguous, but certainly lean that way. I don’t know much about Colbeck’s views.
Adam to they deny climate change ever occurs or just that humans have something to do with it?
This is a pointless exercise. The Senators are laypeople and can’t argue with these guys on their own terms. There ought to be a debate between these guys and the other scientists that the Senators can listen to and learn from.
I guess when you dont know anything about the science then it is pointless for them to ask silly questions it gets you nowhere.
That’s what I said.
In the economics one, there were economics who argued with each other a lot, over a range of issues.
But in the science part, they’ve broken up the scientists into two groups. Silly idea.
THE Liberal National Party is launching legal action to force a new election in the seat of Chatsworth, claiming vote fraud.
Labor’s Steve Kilburn won the seat ahead of the LNP’s Andrea Caltabiano by 74 votes.
But the LNP is alleging vote fraud, claiming some absentee voters may have cast a ballot more than once, other voters had been taken off the roll and suggestions some people may have voted twice.
The party initially claimed that dead people may have voted in the election after a large batch of 600 absentee votes in Chatsworth heavily favoured Labor.
It has now filed legal documents asking the Court of Disputed Returns to force the Electoral Commission of Queensland to set aside the outcome and hold another election in the seat.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25336905-952,00.html
I doubt they will succeed.
Boswell denies global warming outright.
Glen will Kennet give it one last go? If he did he would come close to winning. I think what the conservatives need is a renewall policy. Look at Hawthorn- they stuck to Clarkson’s plan did the youth thing and now they hold the premiership. The libs need to do the same thing, start looking for real young talent and rebuild the party. Get rid of the dead wood and look at some new sources- not just the law fraternity, try small business, major business, medicos etc, even unionites.
Most of the questions failed to get to the point because none of the Senators, so far as I know, have any background in science. Carter and Franks could have said that the sun goes round the earth and the Senators would not have been able to refute that, even though they know it’s wrong.
Centaur the trouble with all politics is that most who go into politics are party hacks the good ones are few and far between this isnt just a Liberal problem but a problem in general plus ppl arent interested in State politics the best and brightest want to go into Federal Politics. Essentially this leaves you with a lot of duds.
Dunno if someone mentioned it but Alcopops is back on the agenda.
Cant Roxon take a hint, she’s a light weight!
Time to put your hand up Glen- seriously, if you believe in your cause, have passion, believe you can do better than the current batch then give it a go. I used to think the same about the federal/state thing but i’ve changed my mind and like the state thing- being able to work at grass roots
Ruddnet 200 Turnnet 0.
You cannot get a better endorsement from an industry player like Harold Mitchell.
http://business.theage.com.au/business/broadband-value-for-money-20090414-a6bq.html
as you said Danby has got ports so look at the state level
If the LNP can substantiate the claims they are making with evidence that these thing happened to enough votes to effect the outcome then they have as good chance. The question is whether the electorate would punish them for not excepting the result.
Glen you must know that Rudd made this decision, not Roxon. He knows that the public will support us on this, and if you guys reject the bill again you will wear that decision at the next election, maybe sooner than you think. It’s possible of course that Fielding will crack and save you from your own folly.
accepting Tom
Centaur politics is too dirty for me to want to get involved in it.
Adam if you want a DD on alcopops go right ahead we’re buggered anyway so fighting an election on a stupid piece of legislation like this is fine by me lol!
Oops.
The Malcopops DD election.
Bring it on.
It means more Greens.
Malcopops bill will sail through. the only Dd trigger will be ETS if the greens block it, but will they really vote for none as opposed to 5%- surely not
Such defeatism, Glen. Sad to see.
The alcopops legislation is new, it only validates the money collected and extends it for another 12 months.
So no DD.
I would call it realism Adam but hey.
Well either way Fielding will be between 2 rocks and a hard place lol!
They kicked Kennett out. The scare campaign against him would work a treat. Kennett’s time has passed well and truly.
Only just Gary, he would do better than anyone the libs have i dare say
Tom
The LNP claim people voted twice – easily sorted by the ECQ
The LNP claim people were not on the electoral roll – tough luck the ECQ maintains the rolls.
So that means they are asking for a by-election because dead people were supposed to have voted – how do they know this happened?
I don’t know Gary, Kennett was a tough bastard, it’s what the Liberals need to clean out the right wing nutters, he wouldn’t have`much time for them.
284 – and Labor gained HIS SEAT in a by- election and haven’t looked like losing it.
Don’t forgrt too that Labor wasn’t even expected to come close in that ‘99 election. Kennett was poison in the country.
Disappointing. A DD on the ETS would be a bigger risk. I think Rudd could win a DD on anything at the moment, but I don’t think he is by nature a risk-taker. A regular election in 2010 will certainly give Rudd a more friendly Senate (likely Labor or Greens gains in Vic or Qld), so he will probably prefer to wait.
Adam
I agree, most recent Govts. have collected a few DD triggers by their second budget. Rudd seems happy to let legislation lapse or to re-introduce it in a different form.
Although if the IR legislation or Stimpac was defeated it may be a different thing.
I reckon the Libs should run Henry Bolte. I know he’s been dead awhile. But, he’d surely do better than the card board cut out of a leader Baillieu.
Unlike Kennett, Bolte never lost an election.
Bolte would have a better chance than Kennett IMHO.
GG – [Unlike Kennett, Bolte never lost an election.]
I believe Bolte lost a prisoner though.
Kennett is a great admirer of Sir Henry, going so far as to hang (oops) a portrait of him in his own home. Problem was, the portrait was public property:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s104441.htm
Adam way back yonder went:
The reason they did that is because the farming community is split right down the center -half either believe it’s true (or are sort of wishing it’s true) and want to lobby government to allow for agriculture to create carbon offsets (biochar, carbon sinks) and sell them on the market while the other half pretty much believe it’s all a communist conspiracy.
Hi there Possum. The first half would include a lot of modern farmers who realise the implications for their livelihoods, and are taking the position of, ‘We can’t afford not to take action, in case the science is correct’
By the way (at the risk of unleashing another barrage from the of big party protection detail) what’s your take – if you have one – on how PR could best be set up for the lower houses in Aus?
JV please enough of PR for petes sake!
Glen
Hear,Hear
Yes Possum, I assumed that was the explanation. But the NFF, which has access to the science, really ought to be showing leadership. There is a real possibility that agriculture in the whole of southern Australia will soon be unviable, and the NFF is avoiding its responsibility by not telling farmers the truth about that.
Is that for costello’s sake?
Glen, a link you might like if you don’t already know about it.
Tim Andrews – yes, that Tim Andrews of tiny tory fame – has an interesting project underway with some decent backing on rebuilding the Liberal Party.
You can follow the links from his blog:
http://insidethemindoftim.wordpress.com/
Just thought it might be up your alley.
Sorry Glen and Gusface – I understand it’s a sensitive topic around the main parties, but I think you might have to get used to discusison about it in future. At present the MSM is your friend in not canvassing it
Gus,
http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/articles/2009/04/15/1239474914416.html
No
I just dont want frigging nazi’s or stalinists ever having even a sniff at governing Australia
Cheers Possum
JV it isnt a sensative topic it is just that that was all that we talked about over Easter, its time to move on to other issues for the time being.
finns
read the mitchell article on the train this morning.(was seeing swedish bro off at the airport)
he laughed at the teeth gnashing going on in the “old’ media
Europe is way way ahead of us
The MS thingy goes nicely with the CSIRO’s recent win- apparently a major Co is facing a suit re encryption software
After the Satyam thingy, We both said the skeletons will come out
Looks like its going to a whole cemetry
jaundiced view – I’m not a big believer in PR operating in lower houses, as I think that government should be formed by representatives from geographic, localised communities. But I can see how that disenfranchises some geographically dispersed views.
If I had to wave a magic wand, I’d have two thirds of lower house seats determined just as they are now – two party preferred voting based on seats representing a geographical community – with one third of the seats done with pure proportional representation based on the primary vote.
Adam went:
NFF and leadership should never be said in the same sentence. It never has been before.
Gus, from today’s Crikey:
Did i hear you say that there are billions of them?
303,
HELLO …………. you want to run the majority of us bored stiff, keep it up (talking about those topics)
… I read several posts about “where was so and so” over the long weekend and not a one of them even had a clue that what they were going on about wasn’t of “extreme interest” and so that was entirely likely why the people they were missing on the blog weren’t around 
……
C’mon Gusface, if you want to move on from the topic at least be honest in your treatment of it. You know better. Remind yourself here:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/BeginnningReading/PRsystems.htm
some more information on the GM situation in the US … 1) no idea at this juncture how this affects Holden and their employees/staff and 2) it seems that retirees health plans will be protected in so far as possible {my father and mother} (see P 4 & 5 below){source – Detroit Free Press beat reporter out of Washington}
Possum – Yes, a mixed system. That’s the way NZ went, although the proportions I think are different.
I enjoyed the PR discussion over Easter, but the basic truth is, unless your preferred party can get enough of the primary vote, your preferred party gets very few seats.
The only way our electoral system will change is if the ALP and L-NP decide it will help them. Don’t like it? Tough luck – the answer? Work hard with good local candidates and acceptable policies.
The moral? To change the system you have to be part of the system in the first place.
In NZ’s MMP system, 65 MPs are elected from single-member constituencies and 55 by PR from national party lists.
In Germany, 299 MPs are elected from single-member constituencies, and 304 by PR from state party lists.
I am being honest
we all do
still dont like it
ruawake –
yes, it was a good PR discussion, but maybe it is time to include other topics. I don’t want to be a ‘one note Johnny’ either.
To address your point though, I don’t think we need all of both the ALP and LNP to support it. It will only take one or more disaffected groups within the parties to bring it on to a vote if party discipline is lost. If I was a ‘wet’ in the Libs or on the left of the ALP I’d be tempted if the chance arose, because there might be more chance of impleenting my policies in coalition with other groups, such as tghe greens or others. At present when their parties are in government the Lib ‘wets’ and ALP left are no-where near implementing their political philosophies, even though one or two might be ministers. That must be very frustrating over a long period – which it has now been.
Weird political possibility of the day – was Alfred Deakin Jack the Ripper’s lawyer?
http://www.theage.com.au/national/missing-skull-may-hold-melbourne-clue-in-hunt-for-jack-the-ripper-20090415-a74u.html
Heh!
The ALP will never support PR either federally or in any of the states which don’t currently have it. Never ever. Full stop. If we could get rid of it in Tasmania and the ACT, we would. The reason is obvious: the rise of the Greens means that PR elections just makes Labor hostage to the 10% of so of the electorate that vote Green, giving them vastly disproportionate power and forcing us to adopt policies that harm our base voters and make us more vulnerable to Coalition attack.
Finns
expect ‘reach” to become the new buzzword
Adam – do you prefer mixed or party list voting on its own?
Gusface – Well, I reckon your view of it is through the prism of a big party’s interests. But, as I have said, that is understandable.
Adam # 317 -But I don’t think that is the situation in Germany, or in any other PR country is it? The typical outcome when PR starts is for other parties to form as stand-alone units -as in a labour left party, a moderate right party etc – mirroring the factions within the two major parties that develop under or district system.
Not going to happen, especially in the ALP. The Libs and Nats may split, but I doubt it, more likely they will merge.
As I said better to be in the system than outside – impotent.
New Zealand has 70 single member electorates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_electorates
Gus, from that immortal line:
“We will decide how we reach them and the circumstances in which we reach them”
Listening to PM tonight. Had about 5 minutes of Bob Carter and Franks. And one snippet from a guy saying Carter and Franks are nobodies in the CC world; followed up by him saying we need 30-40% reduciton by 2020, and if we’re not going to do that, then it’s time politicians start saying they’re not prepared to do enough.
And why would the ALP want that?
I repeat, my concern is for australia, if thats a big enough party for you
I do not slavishly support any party, nor do I debase my thinking by trumpetting party lines.
PollBludger is not the place for that.
Labor may not be against TPP PR.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25336474-2682,00.html
What an awful skewed poll. One Diogenes would be proud of.
How do you rate the RAH?
World class and needs little improvement (upgrade the RAH)
A good hospital, but needs work (upgrade the RAH)
Needs urgent upgrade (upgrade the RAH)
Bulldoze it, build a new one (build new hospital)
I prefer the present system. Single-members seats in the lower house, PR with a 5% threshold in the upper house.
What is TPP PR? (Tell me in an hour or so when I come back)
The ABC have the work experience kids on PM, Roxon said a “new bill” but the ABC waffle about a DD.
Why would anyone get this basic “fact” wrong? Geez ABC.
You lot will have a field day with this;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/15/2543797.htm
Anyone who say the inquiry knows that it was told a hell of lot more than that.
So is the Australian they are talking about a DD election too lol!
Yeah they are:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25337918-601,00.html
Does the legislation have to be exactly the same? I thought it just had to have the same kinda gist.
I believe it needs to be the exact same bill rejected twice three months or more apart.
Peter Dutton was saying the Libs were prepared to pass bits of the new legislation because it will be in two parts, one to legitimise the tax already collected (the libs will pass this) the other bit to extend the tax for 12 months will be opposed.
So it has to be a new bill.
As usual ABC reporting means reading the Australian.
What a sterling job St. Gillard has done with the ABC Learning saga. She is also looking better and better each day. Be afraid, be very very afraid St. Kevin. Your used by date is march 2014.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=28&ContentID=136162
In their press conference after announcing the return of the Alchopops bill in answer to a question Roxon said that it was the same bill and Swanny said the gun was loaded for a DD it was up to Turnbull if he wanted to pull the trigger
ACA decided to do a piece on the Stimpac and who did they have for “social commentary?” Let me give you a clue. He believes most people will spend their money on computer games and it will go a long way to creating jobs in China. Bloody amazing.
No Finns. St Kevin has absolutely every right to break Hawkies record. World class leaders don’t come very often, so we should space them out to maximum effect. After Ruddie and Swan, we have Julia and Tanner, and then we blood in Chris Bowen. The liberals are looking at l5 to 20 years
You’re dreaming Centre.
“We will introduce a new tariff proposal, which you will recall from the measure from last year allows 12 months to collect the revenue and for legislation then to be validated.” – Roxon.
So the bill must be different. Even if its just a few dates.
The Dutch Horse? (You know, the one that Bolted?)
Boom Boom
OK, I won’t give up my day job.
hard Labor of Centre left?
The question is can the Govt. follow Qld and get a fifth term? Saint Kev for 3 terms, Julia for one then it may get tricky.
GB – must be the reason why ACA is at the bottom of the ratings pile – they use the same tripe over and over again and still no-one is taking any notice.
I got the impression from Swannie & Nicola that the new bill will allow them to take the Alcopop hike again for another 12 months before the bill has to be finally passed or rejected. Quite innovative I thought.
Meanwhile they will get to keep what has already been collected by way of a bill which the Libs can’t help but pass seeing they called for that earlier.
I think Kev is all over that mob.
Correct Fulvio and he was at his smug best. Of course this is the bloke that reckons Rudd could very well be a one term wonder.
NOBODY gets 3 terms!!!!
Gary, it doesn’t matter what the likes of ACA say to try and knock the Stimpac, it’s how it’s received by the punters that counts
Stories like these in local papers all over the country show how well received it’s been (and will be)
http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2009/04/14/bonus-payments-just-stimulus-business-needed/
I think 2 bills are being introduced – one that is the same as the old one, and a new one to let the Govt keep the 12 months worth of tax.
Geez the Libs have to know they’re on a loser when not even Rosanna Capolingua is on their side:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/15/2543781.htm
BH, I thought the same thing which would mean if it was blocked again after 12 months the election would be about due anyway. Then hopefully Fielding will be gone and it will be passed in the first sitting of the new term of a re-elected Rudd Govt.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25338970-12377,00.html
Ahaha.
Howard in 2007: Kevin Rudd won’t get in! Speaking to people out on the streets, I don’t sense the mood for change!
Now THAT’S dreaming Glen!
Heard a Small Business bloke on the radio here that further up the Coast at Kempsey the shopkeepers are very thankful for the stimpac. Said their retailers have been busy.
Where I am the Easter break was good too – fantastic Christmas and really good Easter.
Stimpac receivers are spending their bonuses helping local tourism.
Caravan Park at Seal Rocks was chocca with a lot of first time camping families – all with new equipment. Owner/Manager said they were really enjoying their bonuses.
So old Barnaby needs a quick rethink.
I’m sure the alcopops legislation is to allow the government to get its hands on the $365 mill already collected and also to belt the Libs politically.
Fielding is a pain in the arse, but largely irrelevant as he’ll be gone in 18 months.
Yep Vera – that’s exactly how I heard it. Had a bit of a laugh at the cheekiness of it.
Put through a bill – even if it fails the money can still be collected for the next 12 months and then, bingo – the election. Brilliant.
And then there was Julia – truly, truly brilliant with her handling of the media over the ABC stuff today.
What a rude mob the Oz journos are.
I like first dog’s option – throw quoll poo at Feilding.
Boswell obviously hasn’t met many academics…
http://content.mycareer.com.au/salary-centre/education
Further to BH’s 355, we went to lunch on Thursday at a local pub. We were lucky to get a seat: it was full house. Never in the years that I’ve been going there have I seen it so well patronised.
The way Auntie is going, it wont be ABC Learning, it will be ABC Leaning. Rip them Julia.
It’s exactly the same legislation.
Is there a Liberal political career beckoning for this well known celebrity?
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25336977-5006014,00.html
Same at our local pub Cuppa. Food and prices good so instead of travelling 1/2 to restaurants we’re back at the Pub. It’s really good for community spirit as the newcomers are now meeting up with the old mob.
It means extra people for different community things going on too. Perhaps some good things will come out of this GFC.
Any such arguments that the government won’t go to an election over alcohol laws is stupid. It’s not about alcohol laws, it’s about a disruptive Senate the government wants to smash.
If this was the only bill that had been blocked by the Senate then maybe you could run that line, but it’s not even close.
Then again, just because the government has a trigger doesn’t mean it has to use it. They’ve barely been in power 18 months.
BH @ 355
Treachery camp? Ah the memories – and the surf. Beats Bells, Angourie, The Pass and Kirra combined (although Kirra is rs these days thanks to groine meddling)
It can’t be. It may be very very similar but it has to be different.
The lady on ABC just said it was and Gillard confirmed it.
“Malcolm Turnbull might load the gun but we certainly have no intention of firing it,” Mr Swan said.
No she just smiled.
Mungo MacCallum is always worth a read
I like this bit
http://www.echonews.com/index.php?page=News%20Article&article=26083&issue=400
Still a beautiful spot JV and it’s fantastic that new campers have found it.
Think of all those happy campers thanking Kev & Co for their holiday – magic stuff that Turnbull/Costello could never even dream off.
Heard Abbott on radio this a.m. – he is one unhappy little Vegemite with an absolute loathing of anything Labor at the moment. May be time for him to move on and do something else with his life.
Grog@359
Well, to be fair that looks the private sector, as most uni’s don’t advertise their professorial pay rates (they are “negotiated”…), but a Lecturer C gets around $105k (B = $90, A = $75) equally remembering these rate are determined by enterprise bargaining at each uni. I would expect a Professor to get around the $130-$140k mark, but then, they will have loads of academic publications in their field, will often be called on by the media as experts (hopefully in their field!!), and are expected to be senior administrators as well. So Boswell, frankly, is talking out of his a**e (as usual) and is only engaging in ivory tower bashing, just like JWH had a penchant for doing.
“…looks like the private sector…”
BH – like what? LOL
Glen,
He could run away and join another circus.
If sales of alcopops goes down and the sales of other alcohol does not increase by the same proportion, what the hell are the Liberals going on about. Whether it’s a tax grab or not is irrelevant. The tax was having the desired effect.
The Liberals and Fielding should stop playing ridiculous petty politics with this and just pass the bill. What is their problem?
Might take me a long time to work out Glen, but you are right – LOLLOLLOLLOL!!
It is their link (albeit very slightly) to mainstream thought.
by being seen to be concerned
they are perceived to be concerned
hehe. Are there any uni’s in Australia that offer even $100,000 a year for a Professor? My boss would love to know where to apply for one of these cushy well paid professorships
Hahahaha *zing*
There will be no $100,000 degrees.
Labor hero saves family.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/mp-rescues-family-caught-in-rip-20090415-a7a8.html
Just read the piece on ABC re alcopops bill.
Did anyone else read in crikey or somewhere last week that the Industry had got to Fielding just before the alcopop final vote in the Senate. A vote against would result in the Industry agreeing to hold back advertising for 12 months.
Xenophon said that they approached him but he ignored them. Fielding apparently didn’t .
Can that be highlighted this time?
Here’s one for Finns. And a slap in the face for the Ruddster from the Chinese.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25338970-12377,00.html
That would be the same kind of lifestyle that millions of Chinese are currently in the process of adopting.
right you are Stewart J.
As an ex postdoc, I know there was no $200k at the end of the academic rainbow…
Diog, relax 99. that is the chinese version of Maxwell Smart’s “denounce your friend to support your friend” trick.
That incident might be the one that gets him over the line in retaining Flynn at the next election!
Bullbutter.
ShowsOn
I thought this sentence was more relevant. I believe quite a few bludgers predicted this.
Boswell’s performance today was a total disgrace. Ad hominem attacks like the one cited above, wilful refusal to accept or face inconvenient facts, populist stunting about Qld jobs as though that was the only thing that matters. Even on that he’s about 30 years out of date. He thinks the only jobs in Qld are on pineapple farms, coal mines and abbatoirs. What about all the jobs that will go when the Barrier Reef dies? What about the jobs when the Gold Coast beaches are washed away? The man is a buffoon.
*Raises hand*
At least China embraces nuclear energy.
Diogs,
I suppose 1.3 billion people will probably ask him what he did to justify his intake of carbon dioxide if China does not move on reducing emissions.
David Speers had the CSIRO bloke who was at Senate hearings on Agenda this arvo.
Bloke said that he was happy with the Govt’s 5%-15% by 2020 as it would take a lot of work just to get to 5%.
Speers was gobsmacked by this because he was ready to go in hard against Rudd.
CSIRO bloke did say tho that he wanted the 60% to be upped to at least 80% by 2020.
Then Penny Wong was interviewed. How she kept her patience I will never know. Speers was rude to the point of almost yelling at her. She just quietly kept on ignoring him and got in what she wanted to say.
The rudeness to Labor pollies is becoming embarrassing. I can’t remember the media being so rude to the Howard Govt.
the MSM under Howard were so far into brownnosing, that all one heard was muffled nuzzling
Whenever Libs get their heads bashed in on climate change, they always run back to nuclear energy. So laughable.
Or as my old man says Grog – ‘you could only see the soles of their shoes’.
I used to think he was wrong but, after watching US Press Conferences on C-PAC, I can see just how rude our lot are.
I’m getting to like the way Kev asks his own questions and answers them – at least I know what he is trying to get across.
The real debate at these hearings will be between those who support the government’s 5-15% target and those who say we ought to commit to 20% or more straight up. The Coalition-denialist view that we oughn’t do anything will not be taken very seriously by anyone.
I know that we have already have two halves of the farming population. I will add a third half, and suggest that this half is bigger than either of the other two halves.
This half is about 90% sure that global warming is already happening to them. Failed crops, no crops, dead stock, empty dams…
They suspect that it is going to get worse. They know that on their current margins things cannot get worse. They can only get finished. They are hoping desperately that the evidence they are dealing with now is wrong.
I forget all those stages of grieving, but I believe one is called ‘denial’. The NFF is more or less the sum of its members. Its stance is actually something like:
‘We don’t want to know what we know.’
I think Adam has been far too complimentary to Boswell.
Adam – what’s the likelihood of the Greens agreeing to 5.15% if it includes a lot of renewables
The Australian journos favourite phrase is “perception”. Thus they repeat their own opinion and then state that “there is a perception that” or “there is a growing perception that” [insert anything you want].
Sure beats the hell out of doing some leg work and investigative reporting.
But they will try to play the spolier role ala the constitutional monarchists at the republican convention.
Here’s another argument that bludgers have predicted. Oz doesn’t really have a good comeback for that one. If China pushes this at Copenhagen, which seems reasonable, we’re stuffed.
She’s the classic, stoic, rage in silence, chinese womanhood. They dont call her “brave and gentle” (her chinese name) for nothing.
I don’t think Rudd and Wong will budge from 5-15%, unless there is a miraculous international agreement for something higher, so the Greens will eventually have to vote for that, after obtaining whatever else they can get. That will probably be Xenophon’s position too. So once again it will come down to Fielding, who asked some typically fatuous questions today despite not actually being a member of the committee.
The spoilers were the direct electionists Grog.
Exactly Grog. I was wondering if it is just that I am getting older but it galls me that the journos think THEY have the right for their opinions to be more important than straight out factual reporting.
So often their socalled ‘perceptions’ are ridiculous and they are bringing on their own destruction – and that of the Opposition because in the end they help make them look ridiculous too.
It was a convention to come up with a model for a republic referendum. They had no place being there.
If they didn’t like the model they were free to campaign against it.
There are enough Liberal Members who support some sort of action on climate change. It will be fascinating how they play their cards.
The Rudd Government has already shown that it will change course dramatically and suddenly with the FTTP. Could we have another situation?
As pointed out last night he has been seen with the immediate past Prime Minister in a photo taken when said PM was Treasurer in the Fraser Govt
I predict he will be the next Liberal Candidate for a South Australian marginal electorate
But as a certain news.ltd shock blogger is at pains to always tell us he knows of at least 2 ALP front benchers who are sceptics.
Frank,
The campaign speech will be like nothing ever spoken.
333 & 334,
Glen, Oz;
I watched SBS news (yeah, I know, delayed here in Perth so apologies if someone else has put this up already) tonight. The Canberra beat reporter was on talking about the reintroduction of the alcopops bill and mentioned the DD angle and that it is a LIVE one indeed. BY itself, only on the alcopops bill, the government is NOT going to do it. As Swan noted in the clip they showed on tv, “Malcolm may load the gun but we aren’t firing it”. HOWEVER, with that on the table (assuming Fielding shots himself in the other foot again so now both feet will be full of bullet holes) – the Coalition can not then stuff the budget by defeating it too as then the DD will be ALL FULL of
……. If PB’rs might recall (I know I read it at least on two websites last month) – various Libs and/or Nats were making noises after Parliament broke up last month about voting down the budget in May before they even had any idea what Kev was going to put into it. Well, the govt. has done an end around with them on this giving them the right shoe that they’ve already defeated once and the left shoe, daring them in the face to defeat that one as well. Pretty nice and tidy work by Kev and Albo as they will have one of two situations (assuming here again that Fielding stuffs the alcopops bill) – we either get the budget as it stands whatever is in it OR we get a DD and the Libs can take the blame for the latter 
…..
life
But he will have a pretty young female to translate
First rule of DD: the election is never about what triggered the DD.
Named Bree, with Glen and GP taking turns to wear the suit
I don’t think this is an analogous situation. The 5-15% target is more like the Fair Work bill – a carefully stitched up deal following months of negotiations among the various stakeholders. If you tinker with it, it will unravel. I suppose it’s possible that the rapidly changing scientific advise will lead to a reassessment, but I think it’s more likely that they won’t budge on this bill. The strategy of starting with modest targets is a deliberate one (remember the frog in the hot water?). They may well come back after the 2010 election, with a more responsible Senate, and revisit the targets then.
The difference is that the Coalition position is still fluid (weak as p*ss, one might say), while the ALP position has been decided by Cabinet and is as immutable as the laws of the Medes and the Persians. That’s the advantage Rudd has over Turnbull – he can enforce his decisions.
Exactly. Going all the way back to the first DD in 1914.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25339941-5005962,00.html
They don’t even bother to mention it’s not the same bill so it can’t be a DD trigger! Sheesh!
We don’t appear to know if it’s the same bill or not. If it is the same bill, and the Senate rejects it again, then it *will* be a DD trigger, regardless of what anyone says now. Whether Rudd will pull the trigger is another matter.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/15/2543917.htm?section=justin
Customs intercepts 49 in boat off WA
“We’re coming back, we’re coming back”
Sorry i couldnt resist
This could prove to become an unwanted sideshow for Rudd and Co.
Fielding says his position hasn’t changed. I’ve got to agree with his second point.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25337918-601,00.html
If Fielding was smart he’d block everything to force a DD it’s his only chance of being re-elected.
I don’t think people are as concerned about this as much as they used to be.
It’s a double edged sword. Stifling government legislation and being the cause of the DD would only hurt his chances, despite only half the quota being required.
But I don’t think he’ll be re-elected either way. And good riddance.
Labor-Greens Senate ftw!
Just how closely would it have to correspond to the original bill to be classified as the same bill? (A general question really, not necessarily about that bill).
If a bill was presented to the House, passed, rejected in the Senate and returned to the House where it was passed again but with some amendment and then rejected again by the senate after the three months had elapsed, would that not be enough to satisfythe DD trigger requirments? Have the High Court ever had to rule on such a thing as far as anyone knows?
In any case, in my view the government would be better served to have a joint HOR and Half Senate election after 1st July, either in August before the football finals start, or in October, after they finish. Besides being thumped in the House, the coalition should lose at least 4 senate seats.
And that’s because the Greens are much more willing to pass legislation than Fielding/Xenophon.
It has to be the same bill. If one semi-colon is different, it is not the same bill. If the House amends the bill before sending it to the Senate it is not the same bill as was sent to the Senate the first time.
423,
See my post about SBS news. Unless they are talking out of their backsides (the news staff at SBS), this bill as it is being introduced will be a DD trigger if blocked by the Senate. Wayne Swan says they will NOT pull the gun if Malcolm loads it with alcopops. However, if the budget is blocked that is another matter all together. They are setting the Coalition up for the other shoe to drop. Unfortunately, the story on SBS’s website is standard run of the mill news options on this story, it doesn’t add the comments of the on air reporter. Her words were “very much a LIVE issue (emphasis on the word live by her)” when referring to the possibility of the budget being blocked after alcopops had previously been blocked a second time.
They’re going to put up two pieces of legislation. One is to keep the money they’ve already got which will pass. The second is to resubmit the old legislation, which looks like going under again.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25337488-5006301,00.html
Surely Rudd must see the poll numbers and be tempted for a DD. If these poll results stuck, they would pick up an obscene number of seats. They could bury the Libs for a while and give Labor at leat two more terms after the election, if not more.
Thoughts?
Fielding is a true idiot. The whole purpose is to curb teenage or early twenties binge drinking, especially by females. There has always been binge drinking but not to the extent that we have seen since the availability of these alcopops drinks. Fielding wants to ban alcohol advertising relating to sports. Hello, that’s a totally different market, numbskull!
Now if a tax imposed by the government can restrain the consumption of alcopops (ok, and add more revenue to government coffers), well and good.
The first young person who gets killed because of excessive alcopops binge drinking lays on the shoulders of Turnbull and Fielding.
Stewart J @ 373
Listy @ 380
Currently the minimum salary for a Professor at the University of New South Wales is $140,154. This can be confirmed from the academic enterprise agreement, which is available on the University’s website, here:
http://www.hr.unsw.edu.au/services/indrel/acadea2006.pdf
Without having checked, I would guess that most if not all universities have their enterprise agreements on their websites (they are, after all, public documents).
It would be SILLY to go to a DD over alcopops IMO.
No offence to Adam, but I don’t know whether I’d ask him on what The Greens are going to do with an ETS.
The Greens have been pretty decent regarding other legislation, not really blocking it but amending it and letting it pass. Some seem to think that this is the approach they will take on the ETS.
The ETS is not like alcopops or Fair Work. It is bread and butter Greens stuff. The thing they’ve been talking about longer than either party and the thing that most Greens voters have in common when they vote for them.
What do they gain from voting for 5-15%? Sure, we get an ETS, but we get one that’s not structured properly, is expensive, has huge flaws and won’t actually do anything to stop climate change – either in real action or letting Australia take the lead.
What do they lose? Well if an ETS gets up then the impetus for the real action that we need will quickly evaporate as Labor will have convinced everyone that they’ve done the right thing and The Greens won’t be able to criticise and ask for more as they supported it.
What do they get by blocking it? Well they reassure their voter base that they’re still “green” and not just sell outs for Labor. They also appeal to the 25-30% of people who agree with them and want stronger targets. They also make sure that action on climate change doesn’t disappear off the political agenda.
What do they lose from blocking it? Well they don’t get an ETS that doesn’t do what it’s supposed to anyway.
What happened to individual responsibility…
DD’s are never fought on the piece of legislation that triggered it, nor are they ever the reason the government wanted a DD in the first place.
Fargo61 @ 429
A half-Senate election cannot be held until after 1 July 2010
Hear Hear Oz
That’s very important Oz. I’m not saying ban the whole bloody things like you wowser loonies would want
You can put in place measures to assist as a deterent.
That may be so Bob, but the fact is that alcopops were the initial cause of the DD, which would be silly.
Yes, lets do away with any sort of deterents, legalised grass, do away with the silly restrictions on tobacco too,make seat belt wearing voluntary like it once was.
Individual responsibility, I love it. Woo hoo, bring it on.
I’m not a “wowser”, I don’t want to ban alcohol, nor do I really disagree with a rise in alcohol tax.
I just think it’s a bit strange to say that the next alcohol related death or injury is the fault of the Libs.
If the tax will lower deaths from alcohol, as health experts suggest, then the Libs should be condemned for spitting in the face of that. But I hardly think that’s the same as them putting a gun to every teenagers head and saying “Drink till you die”.
But this is typical Australia – spend half the time ragging on the government because they’re always in the way and the other half complaining that they aren’t completely controlling peoples lives.
Oz, no offense taken.
If the Greens vote with the Coalition to defeat the CPRS bill, then we will all be back at square one. I don’t think that’s what the Greens want. I don’t think they will be able to play a game of bluff with Rudd. The web of stakeholders that this bill has been negotiated with (not least the blue-collar unions, who are not happy with the whole idea) is too complex for Rudd just to say, “oh OK we’ll go to 20%.” People should know by now that Rudd says what he means and means what he says. The Greens wanted the balance of power in the Senate and now they hvave it, but that imposes a heavy responsibility on them. If they reject the bill because it isn’t 100% of what they want, they get 0%, and this issue is too important to get that outcome.
I agree Oz. The Greens should ask for an amendment changing it to 15-25%. We’ll have a new Senate in 1 1/2 years anyway. Mr X and FF aren’t going to pass it anyway so why should the Greens cave for something they don’t believe in to see it flop anyway and disenfranchise their base.
Gary said earlier that he could be called cynical for saying everyone will pick the bits they like from the Senate hearings. He wasn’t being cynical, he was being a realist. The phenomenon is referred to as “confirmation bias”.
Wasn’t there a DD over the Australia Card in 1987? Did they argue about the card during the campaign, or other issues? Fill me in guys, I was too young….
Fielding, for better or worse (OK, worse) is a Senator. He also holds the balance of power. If anyone dies as a result of his illogical, ego driven response to the Governments Bill, it is his personal individual responsibility.
He holds in his hands the lives of thousands of fools. It matters not that those fools may be suicidal in their dipsomanic intent, he still bears the resonsiblity if he makes it easier for them to drink themselves to death.
But Fielding is just an imbecile.
The real villains here are the Liberal and National Parties, for whom political advantage transcends human life.
Don’t worry, if you were betting on it, the Greens rejecting the CPRS would start favourite.
445 Castle LOL.
Sireggo, the Australia Card was a very low order issue during the 1987 election campaign. Not long after the election was out of the way, an enormous groundswell of opinion built up against it. Peter Garrett had a fair bit to do with it, funnily enough.
No bike helmets!
But Adam, while action on climate change isn’t always all or nothing, The Greens (and even the environment) gain nothing from passing the legislation. They’d upset a lot of their voters, not to mention a significant proportion of the wider community, and they’d ensure that a lot of the public pressure for the government to act on climate change disappeared.
It would be bad for us generally, because the only party in Parliament that has policy in line with the science would have effectively neutered itself.
FS saying that Fielding is going to kill a young person who binge drinks because alcopops are cheaper is a spurious argument, because the chances are such a person would have done it had the tax been in in the first place.
What about the responsibility of the parents?
What about the responsibility of the schools and education/health studies system?
We tax cigerettes and yet people still smoke them and kill themselves doing so so does the fact that they arent banned mean that all politicians are to blame for these people killing themselves??
Your arguments are spurious!
So if the election was triggered by the alcopops legislation, then they would come to other issues, such as the economy, Liberal leader issues etc.
Again, I’ll state my previous quote, Rudd MUST be tempted to DD so he can bury the Libs at the ballot box.
What conventions are there about DDs?
Bob Brown’s meeting Kevin Rudd tomorrow. I wonder what they’ll be talking about…
Is it telling that the PM’s meeting him and not Wong?
If the Greens have any sense at all they will block the 5-15%.
The 5% is worse than nothing because it will only come into effect if there is no global agreement. The structure of the ETS is the outcome of a flawed series of compromises. Large amounts of Australian dollars going to o/s owned pollutors. Silly. Better to spend the money in Australia on adaptation.
They Greens, at the same time as they are blocking 5-15%, should guarantee that they will pass a 15-25% proposal with the final setting to be determined by any international agreement. It will most likely to be (a flawed) 20%.
In any case, the elephants in the room here are practically all controlled overseas. We will end up doing what we are forced into doing by countries overseas. Just one example – if we don’t fall into line with a global setting we should get ready for trade sanctions.
The greens would be sell outs if they supported KR.
The Greens would be sell outs if they don’t. Your lot won’t give them anything better.
Probably how to form an opposition when the coalition get decimated in the House of Reps.
* waits for a bite
*
They should pre-empt the ETS and come up with some motion in the Senate like “The Senate will only support carbon reduction targets that will stabilise CO2 at levels to ensure a safe environment for future generations”.
Then when Labor and the Liberals block it, bam.
Doesn’t the alcopops hike just reverse the tax loophole caused by the gst………i remember having to pay $70-$80 for a slab of johnnie walker cans years back.
Further to post 451. I’m saying there could be a strong possibility that we won’t have a CPRS – because of the Greens.
CAN U BELIEVE IT?
Geez, fancy the consequences of the whole Australian political system being bammed by 8% of the voting public, those who won’t vote for the Monster Raving Looney Party because they can’t remember the name…
Before everyone goes feral about the alchopops legislation being a DD trigger, there are two quite massive problems.
(1) Adam’s point, is it exactly the same bill that was defeated? If it isn’t exactly the same bill, it can’t be a DD triger.
(2) It isn’t 3 months since it was defeated. They have to wait 3 months before the can re-introduce the legislation, no ifs no butts, or it can’t be a DD triger.
Principle trumps pragmatism?
Politics trumps Panacea?
How?
It takes 50% to block something, not 8%.
Oz FS is not capable of understanding such a clear point as you have described.
Actually FS it takes 51 and so the majority of the Senators and by definition the people of Australia dont like Rudds ETS.
The Greens arent that stupid why shoot themselves in the foot and look like sell outs if they really believe in higher targets.
But parliament isn’t currently sitting…
Bullbutter.
When parliament sits again, it will only be 7-8 weeks since the bill was defeated. If they introduce it as a budget bill, it won’t be 3 months.
touche
Correct
Is it a 3 month gap between defeat and re-introduction, or a 3 month gap between defeats?
Oz, feigned indignation and inappropriate attribution may be your trademark modus operandi, but it won’t work on me. The Greens are your party, 8% is their vote , bam is your word. Where TF did I mention 50% of anything or t the blocking of anything?
You want to bam, bam ahead.
As I read s55, the three months extends from the date of the first rejection by the Senate to the date on which the bill is *again passed* by the House (not the date on which it is *introduced* into the House.
“If the House of representatives passes any proposed law, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Representatives will not agree, and if after an interval of three months the House of Representatives, in the same or the next session, again passes the proposed law with or without any amendments which have been made, suggested, or agreed to by the Senate, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Representatives will not agree, the Governor-General may dissolve the Senate and the House of Representatives simultaneously. But such dissolution shall not take place within six months before the date of the expiry of the House of Representatives by effluxion of time. ”
It says that the House has to pass it after a gap of 3 months after the Senate defeat. I think it was defeated 17 March, which means it can’t go back before 17 June. There is only one week of sittings after that date, so it will have very little chance of even getting on the Senate agenda in the last week of the sitting. So we are talking about August or September before it is defeated. But if it is introduced in May with the budget, it can’t be a DD trigger.
I can’t imagine them having an extended House debate on the bill.
introduced and passed in May. Anyway, the point I’m making is there are several quite specific questions that need to be answered about the legislation before it is a DD trigger.
Yes it can. “and if after an interval of three months the House of Representatives, in the same or the next session, again passes…”
“AGAIN PASSES.” It says nothing about the date of introduction. So if the bill was rejected on 17 March, and is again passed in the Reps on 18 June, the requirements of s55 have been satisfied. It is then up to the Senate to pass or “fail to pass.” We know from the 1951 precedent that “fail to pass” can mean delaying it by further references to committee etc.
I don’t know if this was put up earlier today or not, I’ve not been able to wade through all of today’s posts …
Send in the gunboats!
I think this is a case of Rudd wedging the Libs, a DD is an added bonus
Where the libs used to wedge the public, Rudd is wedging the libs
*gone*
The “bam” represented the fact that both Labor and Liberal would be exposed on the issue. I never suggested that such a wishy washy motion would have any effect, especially as I predicted it would lose.
The legislation has to be introduced by early May (can’t find the exact date) or they can’t try to keep the first years $350M alcopops tax already raised. I think that’s why they are resubmitting it early.
TPP PR is a form of list PR where instead of the seats being based on the onlies (primaries without latter preferences being an option) it is bassed on the preferential TPP.
Agree entirely Adam. Loose typing by me. I also think you mean Section 58.
Diogenes, that was my third question, but they have said they will deal with that in seperate legislation.
The new mayor of Melbourne, Robert Doyle (hopeless ex liberal opposition leader) comes up with this beauty………….
“Rowdy nightclub patrons will be warned like soccer players using a yellow and red card system in a new trial aimed at curbing city violence.”
And this……
“Patrons shown a red card would be evicted. The cards will carry on them a reason for the eviction.”
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rowdy-club-patrons-to-be-given-the-red-card-20090415-a75f.html
He had NFI as the opposition leader and has NFI as mayor!
Doyle is stuck in a previous era where cars in the city are a good thing which impediments to should be removed.
‘Radio Free Fiji’ should operate in international waters near the Fiji waters border!
And of coarse once they are shown the red card they will just meekly mutter and walk out the door…….i take it that is how it works at the Melbourne Club?
And apparently 6PR tonight were discussing whether the above may be a solution to the problem in Northbridge.
Siding with Libs to pass GST was the end of the Democrats
How fitting if siding with Libs to block ETS is the end of tthe Greens
Maybe the problem is continuing to serve someone when they are p#ssed
Imagine if the government tried to make nightclubs breathalyse purchasers of alcohol to enforce a legal limit. Great if it worked but would face huge resistance.
Red & yellow cards? wtf???
Its not as though the Greens would be voting down a good ETS (personally I prefer a strong and progressive Carbon Tax), the proposed CPRS is totally inadequate. The Greens should compromise on some elements of the CPRS but not on the target, that must be based on what cannot be over-ruled: science. Sure, we could bring in a hopeless piece of legislation and then dump it later for something better. Or we could wait till Copenhagen, coz its not too far off now, and base our policy on the outcome. But the best option in an ideal world would be to just get something in line with science right now.
‘The War on Carbon’ will not be an easy one but we must pull together and comit ourselves as was done during the fight against fascism during WW2. We were passionate and united then, sacrificing for the common good, we can do the same again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_at_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest
Perhaps we could adapt the Positional voting system used at the Eurovision Song Contest.
Can anyone suggest any improvements for the good people at Eurovision?
Interesting to note the block voting within regions and immigrants voting for home.
Republicans are a very sick bunch.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/burr-encourages-run-on-ba_n_187085.html
SNIP: See Article 2 of comment moderation guidelines.
Republicans really really hate their country. Just look what their legacy is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html
and Americans are worried about foreign terrorists…geeeeez.
and this is a little bit scary:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/news-corp-forms-unit-to-s_n_186923.html
“When the cities of Fort William and Port Arthur merged and voted on a name for the new town, the vote was split between the popular choices of “Lakehead” and “The Lakehead”, allowing the third option to win, creating the town of Thunder Bay, Ontario.” First-Past-the-Post Sucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting
Gosh Bless Wikipedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system_criterion
This has the pro’s and cons of various systems put in a nice little graph. Game theory and all that too. I note that using our system if individual preferences of each voter are inverted (123 becomes 321), the original winner may still win. oh well, i dont mind that.
Time for some tough laws about the concentration of media. The Murdoch press in the States borders on syphilitic lunacy. We hardly want that channeled through every paper in Australia as standard fare. The best thing that could happen to Rupe is to go bankrupt and be forced to break up this weird empire he has got going.
If I place little devil horns on the number I allocate One Nation or draw a penis alongside their candidates name, or for that matter put a penis in the box (giggle) besides the number, will it be valid so long as all the numbers are clearly identifiable?
and what if, for the benefit of the scrutineer, I write a short opinion piece about why the Liberal Party sux? Will my vote still count if the numbers are correctly written? Can I have fun, going between roman numerals and normal numbers or bring in my own ‘wacky’ multi-coloured pencil or use a stamp, etc. etc. etc.?
HM, writing on a ballot only renders it informal if it identifies the voter – or, of course, if it makes the numbering unclear. At the federal election, one voter in the seat of McEwen crossed out the candidates’ names and wrote above them the names of V8 Supercar drivers, which assumed importance because Labor challenged the result in court after losing by 12 votes. The vote was admitted on the basis that all the boxes were numbered clearly. The judgement from that case can be seen here – the second half of it consists of a table outlining the circumstances of each disputed vote. Devil horns or smiley faces would not disqualify the vote if the number could be reasonably discerned, though there’s inevitably an element of subjectivity here. If you drew a penis or anything else in the One Nation box, or left it blank, and ordered preferences for all other candidates, you would be treated as having given the One Nation candidate your last preference.
Note also that the judgement linked to goes into the question of Roman numerals at 79 to 81, though not in a way that necessarily answers your question. It refers to an earlier ruling that a “II” could not be admitted as a “2″ because it might have been an “11″. The inference seems to be that it might have been admitted if the situation was clearer, e.g. a “IV” on a paper that was otherwise missing a 4.
NBN – “Rash Extravagance” : AAPT
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/200904/s2538992.htm
WB, what happens if one writes one, two, three, four, five, instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?
Or writing numbers in letters in a different language?
Thanks William. Just to be safe I’ll only put numbers in the boxes. Asides from signing my name, it would have to be pretty difficult to give away my identity though. Therefore I intend to launch a proper old rant on both sides of the paper, complete with a pretty picture of a house with smoke leaving the chimney and a penis for good measure. I’ll also scrunch it up really tight so the AEC staff are forced to examine it closely as they unfold it.
writting one, two, three should be fine coz your intention would be clear, probably clearer coz a whole word is harder to mistake than one symble. Dunno about foreign languages or other scripts.
Has anyone here been a scrutineer or AEC staff and seen any interesting ballot papers? I did it once and saw a few with just a penis. Another had word plays based on the candidates names but no numbers.
umm, AAPT don’t even have any intention to be involved and were pooh poohed here last week.
what about those lines people do when they make a tally with every fifth line being horizontal? You know, to keep track of your days in jail on the wall.
William, So I can leave the last square blank? Therefore if there is only 2 candidates, I could just draw a verticle line in one box to indicate a ‘1′ or, dare I say it, deploy a tick!
It’s difficult to believe that companies are prepared to play these high risk games so soon after the whole financial system has collapsed worldwide because of this sort of stupidity. I hope the regulators sort out all these clowns from the banks right down it has been a display of how not to do business. Newscorp should know better than to laud stupidity and immoral practices as some sort of poker game that some smarty won.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25339704-3102,00.html
To be fair to Kennett, Bolte wasn’t carrying a much deadwood. They where different times, the Liberal party attracted different people.
Frank, 495:
I finish work in the city at about midnight, and have to walk through that fleapit to get home. It was particularly crazy tonight, a sea of drunken morons from the railway station to Aberdeen St, and cop cars to match… somehow, I don’t think yellow and red cards would solve that mess, unfortunately. Funny the mayor of Melbourne should pipe up… we need a bunch of smaller bars like over there, rather than the current smaller bunch of large beer barns and nightclubs. Melbourne has problems with street violence outside nightclubs too, but they’ve been dealing with it in an interesting way for the last few decades, which mostly works. Until the government clodhops their way in and comes up with stupid ideas like a curfew, that is. Hmph.
Tom, 498: I know of a nightclub that does that kind of thing; Geisha Bar on James St apparently won’t let you in if you blow over 0.12 at the door. I think there was an article in the Perth Voice about it, or maybe the West.
Matt Franklin in the OO:
“Probably” driven by focus group research?
Apart from the laziness of the word “probably” …. find out, Matt, you’re the one who calls himself a “journalist” … I certainly didn’t need a focus group to tell me Turnbull is an “arrogant toff who is out of touch with real punters”.
What a fluff piece. Do they pay Matt for writing this?
Steve 520
Its not difficult to believe – these corporate cowboys treat the whole thing as a game. They don’t crete wealth; they acquire it from other people by any means available. When I did economics it wasn’t the brains of the class that raced off to get jobs with merchant banks…
This one illlustrates the dangers of pandering to religeous fanatics:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/rejected-by-vatican-before-they-could-be-nominated-20090415-a7kb.html
Yes Pope Benedict is a religeous fanatic. But thats not the real problem here. The vatican is trying to block ambassadorial appointments on the basis of their beliefs. What country blocks ambassadorial appointments, not because they have said anything against the country, but because they have a particular moral view? If I disagree with population limits would China block my apointment? Unless I said anything against Beijing I doubt it very much.
The Vatican shoudln’t be recognised as a country anyway. This story proves why. It just gives a single religeon a platform to promote their views in international forums. We don’t do it for Muslims, Buddhists or Hindus.
There are some interesting parallels here – demographics and the Republicans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZfKFsBlII0&feature=channel_page
513 – Well GP, if HE says it, it must be so even though there are many others who disagree.
Coming back to the question of the alcopops bill as a DD trigger which we were discussing last night. I am now advised
* the new bill will not be exactly the same as the previous bill
* a bill does not have to be exactly the same as a bill previously rejected to satisfy s57 (I was surprised to learn this, but it is apparently the case)
* the timing of the bill’s reintroduction will be such that if it is rejected by the Senate, a DD trigger will exist
Telstra no longer belligerent but the Future Fund boss has given them a real kicking.
And there must be little sweet revenge in this against McGauchie. He lead the charge against the waterfront unions in the 1990s apparently.
http://www.afr.com/home/viewer.aspx?EDP://20090416000031046019§ion=news&title=Murray+calls+time+on+Telstra+chairman
Can you explain this because this is certainly not my understanding.
528 Adam in Canberra – Well Adam either you’re wrong or Turnbull is wrong. He’s on the news saying it ISN’T a trigger for a DD. I hope he is wrong.
TP,
As Glen might say, it’s hubris that got Telstra in the end. Looks like the Government have completely obliterated the McGauchie, Trujillo and Co.
Staring down these arrogant monopolists extracting monopoly rents from an essential service like telecommunications augers well for the long term fortune of the Government.
Almost makes you feel sorry for what is about to happen to Turnbull and the Libs.
More scaremongering from the coalition.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nationals-fear-increase-to-fuel-excise-20090416-a827.html
Big news:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544343.htm
One of the BSDs has got his favourite toy out again.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544232.htm
7 News is leading with that story, lol.
Oh no, it’s breaking news about the boat.
Dutton just doesn’t get it does he? You don’t unfairly criticise a popular PM. It will backfire badly.
You think maybe Labor is just “refusing to rule out an early election” to confuse the Libs?
They’re not all stupid, and they’ll know that an early election will destroy them. Maybe some of them blame Turnbull or particular factions. And if they think there’s an imminent election they might get the knives out in a sense of desperation.
Tom Elliott on 3AW. In commenting on the US stockmarket said – “It does seem the money the US government is pouring into the economy is bearing fruit.”
This coming from a financial commentator who flayed Obama unmercilessly over his and Rudd’s stimpac policy.
I have listened to Dutton in Question Time and did have some respect for what seemed to be a moderate manner of rhetorical conduct.
Unfortunately he’s clearly no better than any other Liberal. One doesn’t have to scratch the surface very deeply for their true nature to be revealed.
What a pack of sore losers.
Something I find disturbing from the US media is that people are not living in denial of their losing the election, they refuse to accept the loss. They won’t accept the decision of the umpire (electorate) and are just going craziod.
This includes the media along with the Republicans and their increasingly nutsoid hard core followers. They are behaving in bizare ways and in no way think they are wrong and do not believe that Obama should be president. The FBI/CIA did report yesterday they were worried by the increase in right wing extremism.
Now the Texas Govenor wants to split from the union. And Murdoch wants to his empire to have one shared world wide news and editorial service or the like – i.e. one ring to rule them all.
We got rid of all these turkeys only just in time it seems.
I had an awful nightmare last night. Turnbull’s approval shot up to 56% and disapproval down to 39%, and the 2pp for Labor had whittled down to 52-48. Needless to say I woke up in a cold sweat. Just thinking about a federal Liberal government, waiting in the wings to again subversively strip away my rights at work… *rocks back and forth in foetal position*
Bob
Not just yours and my rights at work, but our kids and their kids to come. These Liberals mean business when it comes to forcing serfdom on Australian employees.
Finns
Did you see this? One of your favorite places has been in the news
http://media.smh.com.au/national/breaking-news/protests-close-machu-picchu-474995.html
Adam in Canberra @ 528
Is the source of your advice more authoritative than the Chamber Research Office of the Department of the House of Representatives?
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/info/infosheets/is18.pdf
I suspect that if the Government want to use this Bill as a DD trigger then they will contrive to present it in a way to achieve that objective. At the moment they are playing mind games with the Libs.
A DD will likely see the Libs lose a number of Senators (probably 5 or more). Do the Libs really want to hasten their demise in to irrelevancy?
A DD would likely see losses of senators from both major parties.
A DD would likely see a Labor-Green majority Senate.
That’s all that matters.
Likely it doesnt mean it would happen bob.
Plus you’ll also likely get Pauline Hanson and Family First back in aswell!
ltep,
Can’t see Labor losing Senators in a DD given they are currently polling over 40% on Primaries.
The Libs on the other hand will lose a number of the 2004 ers who gave Howard his Senate majority.
The prospect of the Greens holding the BOP might be enough to scare people back to the LIbs or see the re emergence of the Democrats or like force.
Not necessarily with Family First, but Pauline would be a chance. Although she claims to have given it up now.
On second thought, given their woeful performance in ‘04 it’s likely they’d come close to staying at the amount of seats they currently have in the Senate. I doubt they’d poll substantially higher in the Senate than they did in ‘07 though and the only other example of a DD election in the modern Senate (1987) saw the ALP lose 2 senators whilst remaining roughly even on primaries (around 42%).
But who’d give them the preferences? They still need to get to a quota (7.something%).
FF only got in in 2004 on the back of a never-again-to-be-repeated preference deal, and Labor’s sillyness in giving their prefs to FF over the Greens. And Fielding would also be seen as stifling the government’s agenda which wouldn’t help him electorally either.
If current polling sticks, there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t poll substantially higher.
Hardly. They rose to a BoP position after the 2007 election and it hasn’t harmed them or Labor.
You just have a well-known hatred for the Greens.
Well I don’t think it will.
Greens don’t have the BOP in their own right which is what you are predicting post the next election (whether by DD or routine).
This is a significant change and Greens are likely to be put under intense scrutiny as a result in the lead up to the election. Will Bob Brown run again. If he doesn’t what percentage of Greens’ credibility walks out the door. Apparently, the NSW Greens also want to pre-select a former card carrying communist. I’m sure that’ll go down well. I’m sure there will be plenty of other issues.
My personal likes and dislikes are irrelevant. However, you should not be assuming the impending rise to pre-eminence of your bedraggled bunch of boofheads. Being a flake only gets you so far in politics.
Yes, you hate the Greens, we know that. But the average swinging voter won’t give two hoots about the Greens. If they’re going to vote Labor they’ll vote Labor, they won’t change it to Liberal just because of BOP questions.
I hope for media coverage of the Greens, there hasn’t been enough of it. The Greens will be able to point to working constructively with the Rudd government, not hindering their legislation, whilst still compromising and pushing for what they believe in.
Unlike Fielding, and to some extent Xenophon.
The Greens will almost definitely hold the balance of power in their own right after the next election. Xenophon better get what he can before then because in the next Senate his vote will be worthless.
It seems some just cannot come to terms with that. It’ll be good for Labor because they are the least-obstructive non-coalition Senators in there. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you…
bob1234
The SA Government wanted the RAH to take some of the burns patients from the boat that exploded. I told them we shouldn’t because burns patients are highly susceptible to infection and with VRE roaming the corridors and eating everyone alive there would be safer hospitals. They didn’t see the funny side.
Bob Debus about to give live media conference re ‘asylum seekers’ on skynoos.
lol dio
Bob Debus: “Our first priority is the safety of life at sea”
Wow. What a welcome breath of fresh air this is from a change of federal government. About time.
And interesting that David Spears said that the “softening” in border protection by Labor is supported by the majority of the Australian people?
This doesn’t sound like something Skynoos would say!
I have checked with my source and it seems that the advice I was given was a garbled version of the advice you have quoted. So it seems that the bill the government introduces into the House must be exactly the same bill that was rejected by the Senate if it is to create a DD trigger. I am firmly advised, however, that the bills (plural) that the government will be introducing will conform to the requirements of s57. I take this to mean that the original bill will be reintroduced, along with other bills. Roxon’s press release says: “When Parliament sits again in May, the Government will: Introduce a new tariff proposal with effect from 14 May 2009, ensuring the alcopops measure remains in place into the future. The Government will then introduce legislation to confirm the measure in the same session of Parliament; and Introduce legislation to validate the revenue collected between 27 April 2008 and 13 May 2009.” So it might be a suite of three bills, one of them identical to the bill rejected in March, but that’s all I know for now.
It’s a win win situation for Labor- get the tax or a DD (is Fielding really that stupid). How exciting Roxon and Swann have just said “go ahead make my day” to Fielding
It’s possible… but the old bill includes a date in it which it appears would be nonsensical if included in the new bill. Unless they introduced and passed a nonsensical bill and then requested the Senate to amend it so it made sense.
WA Premier Colin Barnett claims the boat was deliberately set alight with petrol.
Yawn.
The media smells blood and acting like a great white. Then Govt will show that this is not Children Overboard Mark 2. And if the Opps want to play as COM2, then it will back fired on them big time.
When are the Liberals going to taught to speak English correctly? How did Rudd “literally invite a surge in people smuggling”? Did he send out invitations to them? And it’s the usual nasty cheap point-scoring when people die that so typifies the low road approach they take.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25341754-5006301,00.html
The Liberal Party can only hope, because i’m sure they’d try to fight a DD on the issue.
So the Rudd Government is responsible for a boat exploding? These people are lame.
They did relax detention laws Itep, people just have to get here and they’ll be sweet.
Rudd and Co were perhaps too hasty in reducing the effective border protection policy of the previous government.
Colin had better have his facts right otherwise he is going to look a goose.
When do you reckon a MSM journo will say, “This is the end of the Rudd honeymoon”.
Read and learn Glen and put the Liberal handbook away.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25339551-5013457,00.html
Because airfares are cheap and ‘economic refugees’ are plentiful in this current climate.
If there happened to be a plane crash on a plan travelling to Australia I suppose the Rudd Government would be responsible for ‘literally inviting’ tourists to travel to Australia.
Right on Mike Steketee.
Itep i didnt blame Rudd for the deaths i merely say his detention policy is not working obviously.
And the number coming by boat is minimal. 4%.
Re the alcopops DD thingo.
It is a new bill, also a new regulation allowing the Govt to collect the excise for another 12 months even if the new bill does not pass.
So the Libs in passing the regulation for the past 12 months have guaranteed another 12 months of excise.
In 12 months time what do the Libs do? Pass the regulation again and oppose the legislation?
Glen, you may not, but Sharman Stone appears to be ‘literally inviting’ everyone else to.
Mike puts it into prespective for you Glen, There, doesn’t seem so bad now does it?
Next the Libs will be saying the refugees threw petrol on our sailors and set them alight, the China dogwhistle didn’t work so why not try and turn these death and injuries of poor misfortunate people into a trigger for race hate and hysteria to try and boost their lousy poll numbers.
Glen
You didn’t blame Rudd but Sharman Stone did. It’s very similar to Brown’s response to the Vic Bushfires. I hope that people like Bolt criticise Stone as vigorously as they did BB. Somehow I doubt it.
I recall the attitude of Liberals in the 1980s over xenophobia – Howard was in the minority.
I was hoping that post-Howard, the Liberals would revert.
It appears I and the public have been sadly mistaken.
These are the killer stats from that Steketee article:
“The latest report from the UN High Commissioner for Refugees says asylum applications in Australia increased by 19 per cent last year, from 3980 to 4750. How many came by boat? Actually, 179 or fewer than 4 per cent.
This year the number of boat people is already higher, at 221. But it still is tiny compared with those coming by air. And total refugee flows to Australia are much smaller than those experienced by other countries”.
Ever get the feeling that the Libs are overplaying their hand a wee bit?
GG we shouldnt be having illegal immigrants coming to our country in the first place and those that do should be shown the door.
Tell me Glen what were the changes Rudd made and how do they make it more inviting for people to get on a boat and head our way?
It was too much to expect that Bolt would be anything other than a complete hypocrite. He already has a blog post.
No pacific solution.
Greater chances of release into the population whilst claims heard.
Greater chances of acceptance into the country.
I’m not just talking about boat people but all people who abuse the system by coming in illegally.
Glen,
They are refugees and asylum seekers prepared to give up everything to escape persecution. The evidence in that article is that 90% of these refugees have been legitimate over the last 10 or so years.
You, seem to be advocating we send these poor souls back to their certain death.
Glen, it is not illegal to seek asylum in another country.
Diogs,
Ignore the prick. He’s only doing it to foment trouble amongst the feeble minded. Stay strong and resolute in your compassion.
“Greater chances …..”
How much greater Glen?
GG these people were living in hotels for months in Indonesia i dont think they are genuine.
I am not saying that Australia should take no refugees but for gods sakes these people should not arrive on our door step like this by the boat load.
After all “We will decide who comes to this country, and the circumstances under which they come.”
Debus on Barnett’s claim:
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/boat-people-doused-ship-in-petrol-barnett-20090416-a82t.html
Dio, don’t hold your breath waiting for Bolt to be consistent in his arguments.
Glen, have you been told when you were young, like Diog never did, that pain would lead to pleasure. You obviously enjoy being a punching bag here.
Vera, that SMH article on protest on Macchu Piccu has been removed. I wonder why. Dont tell me the refugees are heading that way.
Glen, we still do.
The proper authorities are more qualified than you or the media to determine this Glen.
yes glen, i have it from my contacts in Indonesia that most of live in the Jakarta’s Shangri La and had to be dragged out onboard to come to Australia.
Glen,
Show me a picture of these people lounging around a swimming pool sipping on pina coladas.
You’ve got no evidence. All you’ve got are your inhumane prejudices.
The actual number of refugees arriving by boat DECREASED in the first year of the Rudd govt compared to the last yr of Howard’s reign but hey Glen don’t let facts get in the way of your Lib song sheet.
I think the average person’s tolerance towards boat people has upped significantly since “children overboard”. The dog whistle won’t work this time. Fool me once …..
Except for gthose who listen to commercial shock jocks like Howard Sattler, and read News ltd blogs.
I think we should not be put under anymore population pressure at present. We should adopt a nightclub policy for Australia, One in and one out. We can start by deporting Liberal party members (about 2000 last count). When we get a new refuggee, a Lib gets sent to that refugee’s country of origin. It’s only fair and in the name of sustainabilty.
and ABC Snooze are pushing the Barnett line.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544672.htm
Centaur that would backfire as Liberal party members have the money to fly back home lol!
Perhaps Glen but they would have to cue up to come back or risk coming back in as refugee boat people- you didn’t think they would keep their citizenship now did you?
But immigration will freeze all their assests and pass legislation making it an offence for a third party to fund their return
I think the legislation banning terrorist organisations should do the trick 
The die hards like Glen and Andrew B, Frank, will never change. They’ll go about whistling as loud as they can, for political purposes of course.
Then i guess it is off to NZ or Canada to more friendly Tory regimes.
Is that a threat or a promise ?
Glen, go to the West old son.
Can you imagine Smith and Fitzgibbons sitting there at the border with hand clickers- and then to the Lib “sorry mate members night in Australia at the moment”. And the reply “but I was a member, and my friends and family are still in there”,
- “sorry mate can’t help you tonight, try in a month”
Gary Bruce @ 609,
I am SO cynical about the whole immigration/detention/boat people/etc. issues that I wouldn’t put any bets on it at all. Those with long memories will recall that I’ve mentioned my in-laws in this regard in the past. They are, as am I, firmly and always in the Vote Labor #1 camp. However, they jumped ship and boarded the Libs bandwagon in 2001 ONLY on this issue (both voted for Beazely at the election). I simply couldn’t #($(#*$(#$*#) believe what I was seeing. That having been said, I am extremely wary of discussing politics with them to this day even though I know that they vote Labor. I have no trust of anyone at all on this issue excepting my spouse and people who volunteer to me their agreement with my positions on immigration and refugees.
what a great comedy skech
-”But I know Kevin Rudd, the manager”
They call Kevin
_ “sorry mate he says he’s never heard of you”
Glen,
Send us the movie of you explaining your theories on “We will decide who comes and the manner in which they come”, to some of the local Maoris. I’ll laugh myself silly if they dunk you head first in to one of the mud flats.
That’s why Canada is my first option.
They’re far more friendly.
Glen,
Can just see you living in an igloo on an ice block hoping global warming is a fallacy and considering your options if the local polar bear gets too friendly.
Bob Brown on Agenda.
His is making sense on asylum seakers.
No i can more see myself going to Quebec and telling the wine drinkers to speak English or to geeeeet out lol!
Meanwhile in nightclub Aus- Malco is drunk in the corner on you guessed it malcopops, Gillard and Bishop are having a cat fight over the podium, Maxine McKew is doing her weirdarse dance, Rudd is watching kate Ellis, and Yvette Darth strip, Hockey’s buying hot dogs at the vendour outside, Pynne has come in drag, and Swan, Garret and BoB Brown are sharing a joint and talking about the economy
Gives a whole new meaning to this well known TV Theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNxBOmV9tUY
I suspect such dog whistling works far better from government than from opposition though. When you’re in government there are many reasons for people to vote for you other than that one issue. When you are in opposition a scare campaign run by the government against you can work a treat given the right circumstances. People don’t know what policies you have and what you will do in government on that issue.
Ruawake 626,
Is Bob more friendly to them than he was to Pete over the oil spill? Personally, BB has left a bad taste in my mouth all summer with most of his previous actions and words. I’ve not seen todays version of this program.
Bob was saying that Stone had made an error in politicising this sad event.
GG
You wouldn’t believe some of the crap I’ve had to put up with today over the asylum seekers coming to SA. A colleague said we shouldn’t take them because they belong in jail, not in hospital. I had to go over his head. It’s got quite ugly. The spirit of John Howard lives on.
Diogs,
More power to your arm.
Socrates
The Vatican is a state which is ruled by a dictator-for-life who is voted in by a bunch of old men in dresses who were appointed by previous dictators-for-life.
There used to be an even weirder system in Tibet which was also had a dictator-for-life. A bunch of monks would roam around the coutnryside until they found the next dictator-for-life using very wierd signs and portents.
But we can’t be too critical. Glass houses. We have a very weird system in which our Head of State depends on two things:
(1) a set of rules agreed over 200 years ago by a small bunch of very undemocratically-elected Englishmen who were trying to stop Catholics from ever becoming their Head of State.
(2) the order in which regal humpypumpies generate offspring.
633 – Dio, I would imagine that colleague voted Liberal last election. If he/she is a doctor he/she ought to be bloody ashamed of themselves.
Gary
He is a doctor and he certainly voted Liberal. He has been over-ruled.
Not for voting Liberal by the way but for the attitude.
Oh yes, the old 1-2 punching bags are back, no not Glen and Bree, but:
China-Indonesia-China-Indonesia-China-Indonesia
Meanwhile, that great newspaper that truly knows the pulse of OZ
Online POLL: Is the Government too soft on border control? Yes: 74% No 26%
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22073824-5013404,00.html
The Libs fast at work again. I’ve yet to see Labor come out in front in any of those polls. Same goes for Sky Noos polls.
This would be bloody right ….
Most likely Daniel Ortega of long ago Ronald Reagan era, i.e Contra rebel group mentioned in the following (from Wikepedia)
Right wing louts need to help each other out I guess >;(
Speaking of passports, has anyone ever had a pp pic that they are happy with? I’ve got paperwork to start the process for getting my Aussie one and the picture I took yesterday is downright nasty, looks like a mug shot. Don’t know why pp pics have to be so bad …
juliem,
It’s the law.
GG,
ugly pp mugs are the law? you must be joking … my US one is plain and it looks like another person … I’m not forking out money to have it done again though so will just have to live with it I guess, but I am glad I won’t have to be showing it around too often …..
If anyone is curious why there have been no Nicholson animations from The Australian in some time, here is why, I’m on their mailing list ….
GG, i fought the Law and I won
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyleH1Nc78Y
juliem
Remember you do not see the real you when you look in a mirror – the reflection is laterally inverted.
It is only when people look at a photo they see what others see.
That being said Australian Passports have a BS detector included. In my British passport I look incredibly handsome, in my Australian one I look like an old fart.
When you look like your passport photo, you need the holiday.
Juliem, can you post it up on Youtube and let us be the judge
650, no, I’m judge, jury and executioner
……
Malcolm Turnbull is quoted as saying.
“There has been a significant increase in people smuggling. That is a very bad thing.”
Can Malcolm quantify this “significant increase”. Would a fair comparison be the period since the Govt. changed the legislation, compared to a similar period prior to the changes?
I think, using this criteria, his significant increase is bull butter.
In my opinion, all the asylum seekers involved in this incident should be immediately deported upon their medical recovery. Australia should not tolerate such flagrant queue jumping.
The only ones trying to make political capital out of today’s events are the Liberals and their media cheersquad!
The authorities should be allowed to fully investigate what happened before we attribute blame to anyone.
However, Bob Debus’s performance at the press conference was abysmal(and it’s a Labor supporter writing this)!
Really? I would never have expected this view from you GP.
Seconded.
What queue?
Bob1234: Debus, Fitzgibbon, Conroy all ought to be demoted when Rudd reshuffles the front bench.
And the knuckledraggers on Perth Now are in full form.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/comments/0,21590,25341624-948,00.html
As opposed to those backpackers and other anglo-saxons who overstay their visas.
If Barnett has no information given to him that supports his claims then he should be called out as being a liar. He should be asked who told him that and then ask him why he is lying.
No one will be surprised for the Murdoch papers to go the fear and racism route on this, it is their nature. And of course the ABC news report I heard mentioned Barnett’s invention, had Turnbull’s spiel but nobody from the Govt, amazingly you might think.
And of course it is sad but true that some Liberal supporters are only to keen to condemn without evidence. They should be treated with the same standard they are happy to apply here.
This is all too predictable. Like a Pavlov dog Liberal politicians salivate at the mere opportunity to promote racism, xenophobia or fear. And that Turnbull hasn’t broken out of that mold tells you that he is a child of the Howard Govt.
No 661
They should be deported as well.
Can anyone explain the logic of the right wing nutters.
These guys came from Afghanistan, they are not real refugees – check out their clothes – the are economic refugees. They spent time in Indonesia at a luxury resort. They only came here because Rudd relaxed the “rules”.
They knew they would be sent to Christamas Island and then processed and released into the community.
So they poured petrol over the boat and incinerated themselves? Bollocks.
Once again we have Shock! Horror! headlines. Last time it was “Refugees throw their children overboard”. Now it’s “Refugees douse their boat in petrol and set it alight.”
When will the goons who run our media learn not to take every rumour, innuendo and premature piece of sensationalism (especially when uttered by a Lib Premier, or any politician, from either side, for that matter) as front page gospel?
It really disgusts me how gullible they think we, their readers and viewers, are.
No 664
ruawake, it was common in the past (during Howard’s time) for asylum seekers to deliberately sabotage their boats in order to force the Navy to rescue them. What is troubling is that the bleeding-heart left believe they should be accorded protection when they’ve demonstrated a wanton disregard for their own lives and those of their children.
GP
It was not common, the most “famous” case was shown to be utter crud.
GP you seem like a well informed person re today’s boat explosion. Your facts come from? Please supply source.
William, you’re slipping. Nominations have been closed for the three Tasmanian Legislative Council seats for over a week and there is nary a mention I can see on your site. Anyone would think you have something else to do with your time
I particularly like the fact that the Tas Greens have run a shearer for Derwent – who says we’re a bunch of middle class inner city dwellers.
There were 3 killed, 2 missing and 51 injured on a boat (according to the ABC) with 49 people and 3-4 defence force personel.
They can’t even add up.
GP, where is the queue for refugees to line up at in Afghanistan?
Don’t worry Stephen, I haven’t forgotten. Will hopefully have something up in the next few days.
GP,
What the fatuous right do is demonise people without appraising the facts, mix it in with a bit of religious bigotry or garden variety racism, quickly bring it to the boil with a clutch of self important shock jock slogans, top it off with a call to arms among the feeble minded and there you go, “xeonophobic stew”.
If Colin Barnett says so, it must be true according to our Liberal bludgers
Never, when people of generic person’s ilk are happy to lap it up unquestioningly and then let their imaginations run wild to reinforce their own perceptions.
Or if they get their ingredients wrong they’ll get this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPfaPpFSjo
Does anyone care to speculate about the leak to Barnett? Could it have come from the Navy?
GP, should these Illegal Queue Jumpers get medical help?
I thought Safety At Sea had been abandoned by Australia since the TAMPA, SIEV X and Pacific Solution.
How can we justify the huge expense of sea rescue and medical emergency when it is for rescuing Illegals at Sea?
Even if the boat was set alight, it was probably only one disturbed person who did it. We should hardly crucify all 50 people on the boat because of one persons actions. If a boat full of Aussies was set alight by one person, would we be screaming at all 50. Of course not. They are being lumped together because it is convenient for racists like Bolt.
BTW I’ve heard that at least 30 are priority one patients. A disaster that big in the middle of nowhere is a huge problem.
Frank,
You are right about the feeling sick!
No 678
They should receive medical attention. To not offer them that would be callous and unnecessary. However, they should be deported thereafter.
Why?
Source lof Barnett’s petrol claim.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2545019.htm
681
But if they are here illegally, this is a crime right and they are all criminals? Do you have the facts on each of these individuals already?
Aren’t you also encouraging more “Illegal Queue Jumpers” by helping them recover?
Isn’t being callous exactly what is needed right now by this weak Govt to show a strong determination to deter these unwanted arrivals in the future?
Statements like ’sabbotaging their boats and putting their kids at risk’ are used as excuses to promote race hate. It gives the immpression the boats are being scuttled and the Navy is having to rescue drowning children. The half truth of ’sabbotage’ is nothing more than the smashing or disabling of engines.
As Mike Steketee pointed out in today’s Australian, to do this legally, the Government would first have to withdraw from the U.N. convention on the treatment of refugees.
The problem with the previous government’s Pacific non-solution was that it wanted to formally stay within the charter, yet without adhering to it. Liberals should either put up or shut up, either Australia has international obligations that must be followed, or it should get out of a charter that it doesn’t want to enforce.
Oh, trivia question, how many asylum seekers last year arrived by boat?
The answer is 179 out of 4750, or just under 3.8%. Most asylum seekers still arrive by plane on tourist or student visas.
Doing this would be illegal and could result in the Government facing enormous compensation claims.
No 685
I love how you’re quick to label me a racist for criticising illegal immigration and our government’s current soft approach. Where in that criticism did I express hatred toward a particular race? I think you should stop verballing people.
No 682
They do not deserve to stay in Australia. If they can’t go through proper channels, they should not be allowed in. Simple.
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle
Highly, highly unlikely. The Navy guys are pros. To be found to have leaked information to Barnett (of all people!) would amount to career suicide, possibly prosecution.
Most likely someone has said something to someone else who has it on good authority that someone on the Nsvy ship said something to somebody, and then another person altogether has whispered in Barnett’s ear… and there you have it. A rolled-gold, unmitigated, urban myth.
Same old, same old.
Reith made up the “Children Overboard” myth. He blurted it out in a shock jock radio interview. ASIO monitored the radio interview and wrote it up in their daily report. Next day Reith quoted “ASIO” as his “intelligence” source.
He was quoting himself, laundered through ASIO so as to appear “official”. Barnett heard it from someone who knew someone who was absolutely, positively, there. I can hear the retraction now, months down the track, “So sorry, it all turned out to be untrue. But the principle remains…” yada-yada-yada… and so it goes.
Even Tony Jones was, once, unafraid to put thr Children Overboard bull$hit to Howard, just three days before the 2001 election. Howard removed his microphone, got up and left the studio. He could see his whole political life flash before his eyes with that one (for once) fearless question.
Someone – Crosby? Textor? – counseled him to return to the studio and put the threatening eye on Jones. Howard won the election. Jones was a lackey forever after.
Let’s hope that kind of disgrace doesn’t happen again.
GP
It is not illegal immigration.
No 686
It would be illegal under international law, but international law has no bearing on Australia unless the government passes legislation via the external affairs power.
GP,
By saying its “illegal immigration” you are fanning the winds of racism.
They are not illegal immigrants, they are asylum seekers and refugees.You know this but continue to go for shallow populist rubbish.
No 690
Sorry Frank? Can you please point to where I expressed race hate?
This perfectly summarises why you have absolutely no understanding if this issue.
People have the RIGHT to seek asylum in countries that are signatories to the U.N. convention, DESERVING something has NOTHING to do with it.
Again, if you don’t want to be a hypocritical idiot, you should simply propose that Australia withdraw from the U.N. convention, instead if PRETENDING that you support a humane humanitarian refugee program.
No, i was referring to your habit of verballing
Australia is a signatory to the U.N. convention on refugees. Stop being a hypocrite, and simply admit that you think Australia should withdraw from that convention.
No 694
Sorry GG, it is not racist to criticise our immigration policy. I resent your constant reference to the term whenever someone disagrees with you.
SNIP: Abusive comment deleted – The Management.
No 698
International covenants and treaties only apply under Australian law where the parliament has passed relevant legislation authorising the operation of the treaty. Just admit you think the Australian constitution should be abrogated and superceded by International law.
GP still believes the Peter Reith was telling the truth.
GP,
Resent it all you like. I hope it is seered in to your psyche.
Your constant misrepresentation of the status of these people can only be deliberate. That leaves you open to counter claims about your motives.
As I said, your words are helping fan the winds of racist sentiment with your pathetic attempts to demonise these people..
Prove me wrong.
BB, can you point to a reference for that story about Tony Jones and John Howard?
No 700
How is it racist vera? Just because you say so?
Did I say that Chinese people should be banned because they have a propensity to drown their children? No. I said nothing of the sort.
Just because you think any criticism of our soft immigration policy automatically infers hatred of particular races is your problem.
The convention was agreed to by the Australian government in 1994. It was signed and ratified in the same year.
The question is, why the hell does the Liberal party keep pretending it supports it!?
Just admit that you’re an idiot who has no idea what an international treaty is.
No 703
Prove that I’m a racist. Prove that I expressed race hate.
You can’t.
What am I misrepresenting? They have breached the Migration Act.
I prefer our ’soft’ immigration policy to one that involves locking up children behind razor wire.
William,
Here is the transcript BB refers to :
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2001/s412276.htm
LOL! Even KEVIN ANDREWS breached the migration act!
Not if they claim asylum and are granted it. But GP seems to be eager to pass judgment without considering evidence.
Careful deliberation isn’t a strength of people who are trying to whip up xenophobia.
And this is his theme song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2bmvUT_ZeQ
For the convention to apply, the Australian parliament has to pass matching legislation. Simple as that.
The Australian Government can sign any treaty it wants, but it isn’t in effect until there is matching legislation, passed under the external affairs power (s51(xxix) of the Constitution).
GP
Who said anything about Chinese drowning their children? you said this,
Hmm new tactic to kill 2 birds with the one stone is it? Chinese refugees, now that’s a new one
No 711
A person in the migration zone who holds no relevant visa is an unlawful non-citizen. Of course there are legal ways of getting asylum, but the method by which they arrive is illegal.
STOP PRETENDING you support the U.N. convention on refugees. You come across as a blatant hypocrite. At least have the guts to stand up for your ridiculous principles.
Who can apply for refugee status under the Migration Act.
Which is irrelevant if they are found to be refugees.
What do you propose we do? Remove Australia from the Australian migration zone?
No 715
I said that for argumentative purposes. To accuse someone of race hate means there must have been some statement in which the accused expressed hate of a particular race.
I have neither been racist or expressed hate. I have expressed condemnation of boat people who flagrantly threaten their own lives, but that is not the same as hating the race of which they are a member. Learn the difference vera because you’re looking pretty stupid.
GP,
“Prove that I’m a racist. Prove that I expressed race hate”.
I never said you were a racist. Just that you are fanning the flames with your dog whistling.
“What am I misrepresenting? They have breached the Migration Act”.
Assertion without proof or evidence is a denial of natural justice.
No 717
Don’t change the argument. Admit you have no idea how treaties become Australian law!
Asylum seekers are lawful non-citizens – they are legally claiming a status that is recognised in the UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951, and the 1967 protocol regarding the Status of Refugees, agreements to which Australia is a signatory.
Reading that Howard Lateline transcript made me sick.
I”M looking stupid!!! LOL
And both agreed to by a Liberal Govt
Oh the Hypocrisy of GP
No 720
Which is the same thing as calling me a racist GG. It is impossible to have a debate about this issue without being likened to a racist or fanning racism. If you fan racism, you must be a racist. I am not a racist and nor am I fanning racist flames.
You might dislike my politics but never I have never resorted to racism to win an argument and nor will I.
Don’t change the argument. Admit you don’t think Australia should adhere to any international treaties.
/G.P. logic on
But Australia isn’t the United Nations, therefore Australia isn’t compelled to adhere to any U.N. conventions that Australia says it will adhere to.
/G.P. logic off
True. G.P. thinks all asylum seekers should be kicked out of Australia irrespective of race or their rights. In short, he doesn’t believe that Australia should adhere to the obligations that it has repeatedly said it will adhere to.
No 722
ruawake, please quote the relevant section of the Migration Act. International Law is of no consequence unless there is matching legislation in Australia.
GP,
Maybe this blog is a voyage of self discovery for you.
You’ve been pretty loose with the facts and very quick to demonise others.
If the mask fits……..
No 727
Australia should adhere to the treaties for which the parliament has legislated. Anything else is mere academic futility.
No 730
GG, keep going. Keep calling me a racist without evidence. It’s easy to label someone a racist when you haven’t any evidential grounds on which to stand.
That seems to be the idiots approach to improving world peace and prosperity.
All countries are allowed to tell the U.N. they are going to do one thing, while doing something completely different.
So, for the last time, just admit that you don’t think that Australia should be a signatory to the U.N. charter on refugees. That’s the problem with the Liberal party these days, they can’t follow their stupid ideas to their illogical conclusions.
GP do you really want to continue the UN – no legislation line?
I thought UN resolutions were the excuse for invading Iraq? With no debate in Parliament.
The Libs will end up with a 2 in front of their primary vote if they wish to continue this crap.
Hmmm, maybe GP should expound his considered views to Department of Immigration and Citizenry as they suffer the delusion that Australia provides protection for asylum seekers. See http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/61asylum.htm
Bob Debus on 7:30 Report.
And if the libs are dinkum about their immigration policies, they should immediately expell all Liberal Party politicalns and branch members wwho were born overseas or were of immigran t parents citizens or not
Debus seems like a nice enough guy but he looks like he’s out of his depth.
SBS news reports that the explosion occured in the engine compartment of the boat – suck eggs Carps.
GP,
Cry me a river. Your words are more than enough. I’ll let the crowd draw their own conclusions from your posts.
Here rover!
GP
That’s not true. It’s easy for an opportunist like Howard to whip up a bit of populist racism to suit his political agenda without actually being a racist.
BTW I recall you condemning Bob Brown (correctly IMHO) for politicising the Victorian bushfire tragedy by immediately linking it with CC. I assume that you feel the same about anyone who would immediately politicise five dead and fourty injured Afghanis.
Carps is gone.
And 4 injured navy personnel.
Don’t you mean Barnett
Carps may have been a Testa di Cazzo for losing the unlosable election, but he can’t be at fault for this 
Freudian slip?
No way! Don’t tell me that the department of immigration is Australia’s new parliament!? And the secretary of the department is the new Prime Minister.
I don’t understand why G.P. on the one hand says the U.N. refugee convention has no baring on the Australian government, but on the other hand seems to think we should remain a signatory to it.
Why doesn’t he just admit that we should withdraw from it?
Carps? don’t you mean Barnett?
OOoops
Checking the facts, Howard didn’t get up and leave the interview, three days before the election. He certainly looked like he was about to flee the scene, but he did stay till the bitter end.
He did request a second interview on the same evening for “clarification” purposes.
Tony Jones from the transcript:
From that second interview:
Read the whole thing. It’s a hoot. Tony Jones’ last hurrah before he became all mainstream.
And once again, april 2009, we have “Defence” sources assuring us – via the WA Premier, who can clearly be trusted in these matters – that the refugees set fire to their own boat. That’s his “advice” and he appears to be sticking to it.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2001/s412276.htm
Someone tell me if I’m wrong, but regardless of what actually happened on the boat, Barnett and the Federal Lib’s stance on the issue is a perfect example of dog whistling.
On the very surface, nothing seems wrongs with it, but in addition to playing to racist segments of Australian society who’ll think “Ah, those damn Arabs – always burning themselves”, it seems to have triggered the conservative media into drumming up disturbing sentiments.
I thought Debus did rather well on the 7.30 report. He was measured, firm, and shut down the dog whistling questions pretty quick.
The parallels to children overboard are very weird.
ABC online still has the petrol dousing version on the front page.
I thought Debus did quite well too. Did well nuetralising a very contraversial issue.
The interview was pretty rubbish, but I think it was the interviewers fault.
I think she thought she might end up being the Virginia Trioli of Children Overboard Mach II and was trying to get poor Debus to say something about the cause of the explosion, which of course, he didn’t.
He did ok, but for a Minister, far too much “I dunno”.
No 750
Oz, the problem with your lot is that you think the voters are stupid. What’s increasingly ironic is that immigration policy was touted as a reason for Rudd’s ascension to the primeministership.
Has anybody noticed lately that Leigh Sayle of Lateline and Ali Moore on 7:30 Report have gone feral with their questioning. It must be a directive from ABC Politik Bureaux: “get tough with the Govt”.
as are WA Today – and their story was updated at 5.39pm WST.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/boat-people-doused-ship-in-petrol-barnett-20090416-a82t.html
Oh, maybe i should also add La Trioli, i also heard she’s gone feral
Debus was excellent.
by whom????
Debus was saying “I dunno” because he does not know all the facts at this stage. Contrast this to Reith.
Hmm, the story referring to Barnett ’s version coming from defence is no longer on the ABC News site !!!!
Hmmmmmmm……………
I don’t think voters are stupid, I think people are prone to manipulation by their elected leaders and the media. This is not their fault, this is the fault of the people who have power and are supposed to use it responsibly.
This isn’t some wacky theory I have, it’s something supported by a lot of previous examples.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2545066.htm
Front page.
Yep, just as I suspected.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2545019.htm
I wonder who ordered it be pulled ?
Ahh, so they’ve merged it into the main story.
Don’t you hate that.
Ahhhhh Clarkey and Dawe.
Legends.
That’s a bit dodgy, I don’t think they should delete old stories. Even if they’ve been updated, they should be archived.
GP should be deported to where ever he came from.
Amigo Vera – you have also gone feral, being SNIP by Bilbo.
The problem with your lot is you want to PRETEND that you support a humanitarian refugee program, but don’t actually want to do it.
That is why you think Australia should be a signatory to the U.N. convention on refugees, but don’t actually what to adhere to what that convention says. You want all the glory, without actually dealing with what is a very complicated issue.
Oz I agree, a bit dodgy, the ABC don’t usually delete old stories they just move them down the list as newer stories come in.
Thanks Frank and BB for the Howard Lateline piece. I felt just as sick reading it now as watching when it happened but time makes you forget how bad it was.
So I have printed it off and will leave it for the grandkids to show them exactly why their grandparents disliked Howard so much.
May the saga loom large in the history books to show what a small man he really was (and probably still is behind the scenes – wonder if he is advising Turnbull tonight).
Exactly. Debus made it clear what he knew, and what was not clear. He did not wish to pre-empt any investigation.
Ali Moore’s questions were akin to someone asking a witness to a car crash -”So was he drunk”.
A reasonable person (Debus) would respond, “well I’ll let the police be the judge of that when they do a breath or blood test. And I wouldn’t like to comment without knowing the facts. But it’s a sad day and I extend my sympathy to the victims and their families”
A member of the Liberal Party would say:
“The driver was stonking drunk on vodka he was drinking because alcopops are too expensive and you can’t announce a soft policy and then expect people not to loose their lives through drink driving”.
GP:
LOL!
Any Liberal MP: “Of course Rudd’s popular, anyone would be when they’re giving money to voters that would make a drunken sailor blush!”
Pot, kettle, black.
And then there’s the whole immensely popular since December 2006 bit.
Finns
I been a bad girl
Now Now Finns
I direct to you to
http://www.101usesforajohnhoward.com/2006/12/20/59-pauline-hanson/#comments
for the definitve answer to this age old conundrum
To wit:
Finns,
Here’s Vera when she was Jack Nicholson in “A Few Good Men”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg
And Donna Summer agrees with you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_bxHSNkJ0
Vera, you have to be punished by this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMEgDBj6n9g
Gus, the new media is coming along nicely
For once, I think the ABC article is reasonably balanced. Gives the facts, reports the insensitive comments by Stone and Barnett, and gives plenty of space to the response by Debus and Northern Territory Deputy Police Commissioner Bruce Wernham. The headline is a little insensitive, by hey, it’s a big improvement on their usual standard.
Ahhhh… for those dark distant days, lost in the mists of time when the “RAAF Hostie In Tears” story would “run and run”, according to the Insiders, because it showed just how Rudd was one day Mr. Jekyll and the other Mr. Hyde.
I just cannot understand why the whole of Australia isn’t still buzzing at their respective water coolers, supermarket checkout queues and when they’re out walking their dogs along leafy, suburban streets…. “Yes, that Rudd. Mr.Jekyll one day, Mr. Hyde the rest… I’ll never vote for him again on the strength of this…. poor girl, fancy having the bully PM make her cry! It’s besgusting! Thank God for whatsisname on Insiders clueing me into the real, nasty Mr. Rudd. More like ‘Mr. Rude’, I reckon!”
Oh well, a week is a long time in politics…
BB,
You must have missed one of the Lib BSD’s today……
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544232.htm?section=justin
GG Frank Finns
I very much enjoyed those songs, I’ve just been watching another bad girl on Max
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEzdyPx2HdI&feature=related
Gotta watch Solo on ABC1 NOW!
Yep – quote the Libs at length on this – let ‘em hang themselves…
Tells you how corrupted the Liberal Party have become that they see nothing wrong in going the xenophobe and racism route at the slightest opportunity. The tried the Chinese dog whistle (didn’t work), they are trying the nasty refugee invaders dog whistle now.
I guess it is a matter of being totally useless at everything they are left with ticking off all their favourite low life tricks until they find something that might work.
TP as Possum points out in his post today on Dutton; they’ve got no idea. They’re flapping around.
I don’t even know why Turnbull bothered to say anything about this issue. Rudd hasn’t made a comment. Turnbull should have left it to Sharman Stone and then… oh wait, now I realise why he made a comment.
Over in the US – Texas Gov Rick Perry threatens to secede.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html
Given the tendency of the Libs to follow the Repubs, I expect Barnett to make a similiar “threat” in the next week or so.
Bill Hassall usually makes such claims every so often, though Barnett may give it consideration if the No vote wins in the Daylight Savings Referendum
Tough questioning by reporters is not a bad thing of course as long as it is even handed. When a reporter unreasonably badgers a victim it often has the opposite effect on the viewer. They want to stand up for the person being treated unfairly.
Potential future PM Chris Bowen on Q&A soon! Observe closely Glen
Debus came across as open and honest. He didn’t have all the answers and he said so. It was refreshing to see and reflects well on his integrity.
Compare and contrast with the weasel Ruddock.
A bit of clarification for GP and Glen.
Refugees arriving by boat are not illegal immigrants – they are unlawful non citizens. They have bypassed immigration clearance and have failed to meet the legislated entry clearance requirements, however there is no legal penalty for that breach other than having any valid visa cease – the consequences of which is mandatory detention under s189 of the Act. The UN conventions on Refugees has been enshrined in the Migration Act at s36 of the Act by the inclusion of a class of visa to be known as a Portection Visa. The eligibility for which is:
“(2) A criterion for a protection visa is that the applicant for the visa is:
(a) a non?citizen in Australia to whom the Minister is satisfied Australia has protection obligations under the Refugees Convention as amended by the Refugees Protocol; or
(b) a non?citizen in Australia who is the spouse or a dependant of a non?citizen who:
(i) is mentioned in paragraph (a); and
(ii) holds a protection visa.”
Just out of interest. What does it matter if someone on the boat deliberately set fire to it and caused the explosion?
I don’t mean matter in terms of loss of life – obviously that is tragic. But what does it matter politically? What does it matter in terms of policy?
I have no problems with the Libs arguing that “softening” the boarder policy may cause an increase in asylum seekers (the arguement is not backed up by facts, but at least there is some vague sense of logic to it).
But how in the hell can anyone, let alone Sharman Stone argue:
Please explain to me how the ALP’s policy encourages people to set a boat on fire and cause an explosion?
I’ve been busy today and haven’t checked any news until now.
What the hell is going on. Sounds like reverse children overboard. Just like children overboard which was a load of crap, my money is on that the boat was not deliberately lit. The shame never stops from you liberals.
Belinda Neale was right!
It’s the line up from hell on QANDA. John Elliott?? wtf??
PIGS ARSE
Grog
You are making a common mistake in trying to use logic to work out conservative policy. That’s doomed to failure.
Have you been following the US? It’s getting worse over there than here. The Repugs are such bad losers they want to secede, revolt and overthrow their communist dictator. The Libs are bad here but those guys are on another planet. And the hypocrisy about this Tea Party crap is breath taking. All of a sudden, it’s patriotic to show dissent, when for the last 8 years you were unAmerican. And all the right-wing nut-jobs who cheered on the illegal wiretapping saying “If you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about” are going berserk about right-wing extremist groups being watched by the Government.
It is possible that the fire was deliberately lit. The reason however is most likely to be from an unfounded fear that the boat was being returned from where it came. Having travelled a number of days southeast to get to Australia, the boat is suddenly turned around and forced to travel northwest back to Christmas Island. The same route they took to get to where they were intercepted. If this is true, given the language difficulties and lack of interpreters I have no doubt the people on the boat were terrified they were being sent back and as most genuine refugees will do, they did whatever they could to prevent being sent back.
This refugee boat explosion off North-West WA is becoming very fishy by the hour. Rudd mentions nothing about it for the whole day, until after Colin Barnett calls a snap press conference to confirm that the boat was lit on purpose. Then along comes Rudd and arrogantly dismisses Barnett after a legitimate claim on what happened. Rudd wants to play WEDGE politics. Good riddance!
Bowen, what a class act with first question. Elliot – go and send another business broke – GOON.
Turned the mute off for about 30 seconds. It was more than enough!
Sophie Mirrabella… *shudder*
I bet GP/Glen/Bree are watching it with popcorn, texting their Young Liberal mates in the audience.
You call THAT wedge politics?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Interesting question on the Q&A website:
Anything can happen in 90 years…
I think Colin Barnett should piss off and resign. What an arse.
Bree should be deported to King island where the cheese comes from.
Belinda all is forgiven, please come back.
John Elliot is just so very, very embarassing
Zombie he’s the Premier of WA and ill bet he got the information from a good source he’s no fool after all he’s the only Liberal Premier in Australia!
It seems logical that they would attempt to destroy their boat, i only hope those that started it were killed. I can understand them being terrified of being sent back but they shouldnt have come here in the first place.
You’re right of course. Shan’t do it again! (smacks head in acknowledgment of stupidity)
Well said, Glen.
contradiction right there
If one is fleeing persecution (which we are both incapable of determining) then under UN charter, they indeed have every right.
Well the Minister for Immigration in 2001 got bad information…
Such compassion… you are a credit to your party.
Which was later refuted on SBS News
And one with the shortest term after the State Budget is delivered
Is Elliot drunk, or is he just always like that these days?
Glen
Why? They were being towed to be processed as refugees. If the boat went down and they were rescued, they will still be processed. Their chances are the same but this way they had to survive the explosion.
BTW I’m not an engineer but this was quite a big explosion from the injuries I’m hearing about. Would pouring petrol on an engine cause such a big explosion, ie would the engine explode?
Glen, you really should check what you’ve written before hitting the post button.
What should they have done?
Alcopops , no wait ,double malt scotch old son
Bob he’s the only one to break the social democratic lock over this great nation so he’s no fool after all he came back from well behind at the start of the campaign to smash Carps!
If anyone is liable to have inside information on the matter it is the Premier of the closest State which is WA.
Look nobody wants boat people to be killed, and we must care for these people but they should be processed and those who set the fires if still alive should be deported and or tried for murder and gbh as they caused the injuries of many people including Australian defence sailors.
Rudd and Co need to address this issue, i realise that boat people account for a small percentage of arrivals but we should be able to minimize boat arrivals it was done under Howard because we took a tough line. Rudd basically opened the welcome mat for anybody who could reach our shores. Especially in these tough economic times we shouldnt be taking any more refugees than we already do if not far less IMHO. We’ve got to look out for Australians first and only.
Good questions – and why intelligent people (Debus) wait for the full report to be made, and fools (Barnett) go straight in without waiting for all the facts.
VColin did nothing – as usual – Carps did a Latham.
Can Catherine Deveny be banished?!!! What a tool.
Is John Elliot drunk on alcopops??
Dio,
If the fuel vapour/air mixture ratio reaches the correct proportions it is classified as an explosive and the reults are quite dramatic.
Rubbish! If anyone is liable to have inside information on the matter IT IS THE MINISTER WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RESCUE OPERATION.
Border protection is a FEDERAL GOVERNMENT issue, Barnett wouldn’t know ANYTHING he is just relaying rumours, which as we all know is how all Liberals deal with issues of border protection, that is how the LIE about children overboard got started remember.
The biggest Swinging Dongle was John Eliot
Glen said “If anyone is liable to have inside information on the matter it is the Premier of the closest State which is WA.”
Hmm, so that’s why Sarah Palin understood Russia so well …
Sophie Mirabella for PM!
830
Is his nose a the dongle?
Bob Debus wouldnt know it if somebody punched him in the back of the head!
He’s a poor media performer and for that matter where is Fitzgibbon wonder if Defence will give him a proper briefing?
GP, done your homework yet reading up the DIAC website? You don’t want to be caught out so badly next time.
831
Barnett can see Christmas Island from his Office…
No 835
It’s Time, have you done your homework on the constitution? No? Thought so.
Glen, a whole lot of rhetorical waffle without any substance.
And social democratic? Were the pre-Howard Liberals social democratic? Labor is to the right of the pre-Howard Liberals, and the Liberals are to the right of everything. Social democratic my foot.
812,
Glen, on this one, I might agree with you.
It follows on from the same logic as those in detention under Howard who sewed their lips shut and/or went on hunger strikes. Detention is bad policy no matter whose watch it occurs under. I blame the atmosphere created by JH, yeah your man Glen, for not enabling Rudd and Labor to be much more friendly to immigrants. Immigration and Aboriginal policy are two areas in which Rudd has had to operate with one hand tied behind his back because of the beast that Howard created.
Let ‘em in (in the case of immigrants) and give them native title and work cooperatively with them to better their circumstances instead of arbitrarily intervening in their affairs (in the case of Aborigines). [off of my leftwing soapbox for the moment]
That would go down worse than Joh for PM LOL
Which they will be! Or are you suggesting under the current policy this won’t happen?
exactly. so why is this the big issue for the Liberal Party? Or is it just SOP now that the LIberal Party worries about small things…
What a crock. Give us some facts please. Outline the changes to legislation that put out this welcome mat? Or, like Turnbull, are you only concerned with “perception”.
No, we’ve got to look out for Australians first.
833, Lucky Elliot got two dongles
Yeah, but Peter Reith and Kevein Andrews were great media performers, they knew exactly what lies to spread and when to spread them.
It is typical that a Labor government has to clean up the messes left in immigration and defence.
Two words.
Poor – polling.
rotflmao
John Elliot text message?
Yep, great view from the 24th Floor of Governor Stirling Tower in the Terrace
Does anyone remember the beginning of the Rudd government when the Liberals were lost for what to criticise? They’d pick anything and everything, just to have a question to ask at question time, no matter how trivial.
They’ll throw any mud at Rudd Labor, hoping one day something might stick.
… will continue.
If you want to be friendly to illegal immigrants/asylum seekers check out how well Italy and Spain are going!
People are really only motivated by fear, hell it’s what won Rudd the election!
Fear is all these people have from stopping them from coming and since Rudd opened the door the fear of what awaits them is lost and so here they come.
Juliem i disagree with you on aboriginal policy, the problems of the aboriginal people werent solved by saying sorry and that sorry is meaningless because IMHO aboriginal people are no better off than before they still suffer and still are disadvantaged unless someone hopefully Rudd puts their foot down and does something meaningful then his Sorry is a waste because if we were truly Sorry for what happened to them we wouldnt allow them to suffer as they still do today!
Why isn’t Chris Bowen or Lindsay Tanner the Treasurer?
Oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them.
Though Rudd sure helped.
There has been only one change in lergislation relating to the reception and processing of refugees. That was the abolition of temporary protection visas.
The labor govt has reinforced and strengthened the requirement taht children should not be held in detentio – a policy that was commenced by the previous government prior to their departure.
What has changed is the policy relating to processing in that very strict timeframes have been placed on the pprocessing and decision on the granting or refusal of a protection visa.
And Elliott was president of the Libs……says it all doesn’t it!
LOL. You’ve been caught out, no need to bluff your way out. Have you written to DIAC to inform them that their website is incorrect in stating that “Australia provides protection for asylum seekers who meet the United Nations definition of a refugee, as defined in the 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees.”?
Elliott is a dinosaur…Bring back Howard!
sorry my typing sucks
Yeah, people’s fear that John Howard would be prime minister again.
No 855
That is a policy decision, not law.
GP,
check out s36 of the Migration Act 1958
No i am talking about Workchoices Labor used that fear and it worked.
People are very simple creatures when it comes down to it.
People feared for their jobs and the Union ads did the trick.
Elliot is evolving into the Uncle Arthur of the libs.
Was Elliott thinking of others regarding the $66 million foreign currency transfer.Would it have been manners to tell his wife first that their house had been sold and not have her read it it the Herald- Hun
Time for a Bex and a good lie down Glen, your grip on reality is starting to go.
Again, outline all the legislative changes that have opened the door. Are you seriously suggesting people are coming to Australia by leaky boat becasue now they know they’ll be processed on Christmas Island rather than Nauru? You really think they would make any distinction between the two? You really think they would even know that the polciy has changed?
Yep I can just see the family in Afghanistan who have been wanting to flee the Taliban reading the newspaper and the dad saying to the wife and kids – hey guys, that Kevin Rudd has taken away the detention camps in Nauru. So let’s all get packed. Guess what! We’re moving to Australia!! The welcome mat has been put out.!!
861
Glen, Howard was the greatest fearmonger of them all. Hats off to him!
Rudd has nothing on him to show for other than HostieGate.
Sophie the air hostie
How desperate can the meeja get? Jenny Mac didn’t declare a trip 12 YEARS AGO ffs, How sad for them that it was the USA that paid and not China
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25344305-662,00.html
If they are geniune refugees they should wait in line with the rest of them and come through the proper channels.
That’s because people were INHERENTLY afraid that workchoices would cut peoples wages, conditions, and make them easier to sack.
LOL! Let me quote G.P. from earlier on:
Howard said WorkChoices would make the country a Utopia, people didn’t believe him. End of story.
So you are saying they should stay in Sudan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc.
So you should just be honest and say you think Australia should withdraw from the U.N. Charter on Refugees.
Elliott is definitely drunk…Q&A the Pub edition
Glen, I thought you had agreed that WC was the main reason for your uncle getting the flick. Now you claim that Rudd won because of fear. Your thinking is all over the place – just like your side of politics.
As Grog said:
Bet you can’t.
No but they shouldnt just come here they can wait in another country for processing.
No 870
They should come via proper channels, not via a dinghy (which has been purposely sabotaged).
Just like those nice British Backkpackers who “accidently” overstay their visas
Yes, that’s why Aisdad finds it in Migration Act 1958 s36. That’s how they promulgate policies, isn’t it?
I like how you think all refugees can just wait around until the Australian embassy has processed their visa application. Life is just so cruisy for refugees…
Imagine you are an Afghan. You might have a bit of trouble going that route:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/missions/countries/af.html
No 871
He at least has a sense of humour unlike Deveny.
Those running from persecution can’t wait in line like the rest of them?
Chris Bowen is talking out of his arse – he can’t even maintain eye contact.
Steve K i am saying that Workchoices was the main thing that brought us down.
Because it allowed Rudd and Co to use this as a tool of fear in the minds of the Australian people and it worked!
No 879
Rubbish.
Grog try the one is Pakistan then!
Evidence? and no Colin’s “advice from the bloke in the Health Dept who may have overheard a phone call from some clerk in defence doesn’t count
No 882
Bullbutter.
Bob it is too easy an excuse if they are a genuine refugee why not go to another consulate why pick on us!
No 885
Codswallop.
How are you going coming up with all those legislative changes that have brought out the welcome mat Glen?
Glen and GP, should the refugess get medical emergency care?
No 884
Colin knew more than Debus (who, by the way, was a bumbling idiot on the 7.30 report).
No 889
I’ve already answered that question. Yes.
Sorry GP was in transit?
Why should we spend money and services if they are here illegally?
So is Alan Bond on QandA next week…(pity Skase and Holmes a Court are dead)
Rudd to be re-elected – according to Pig’s Arse John Elliott
Anyhoo enough for me. Nothing like a topic that reinforces the fact Australians made the right decision on 24/11/7.
I’d rather take the word of the minister who had a face to face conversation, rather than 3rd hand information via a llowly Health Dept Staffer based on a phone call from a command centre.
No 892
Malco, you’re clearly trying to make me out to be some sort of callous despot, but I won’t accede to your probing.
Does the UN charter state that if they don’t go to the closest country, they are not seeking asylum?
They are people, we have a responsibility to care for people who suffer misfortune on the high seas.
But they ought to be detained they ought to be thoroughly processed and those who may have burnt their boat should be tried for murder and then deported after their sentence is up.
Shame on me for having a sense of compassion for fellow human beings. I will never learn.
Anyway way back in 1788 a boatload of illegal immigrants arrived in what they called Botany Bay. Unclean terrorists the lot of em. Well they were full of disease.
Colin made more assertions than Debus.
Even Bree said Rudd will be re-elected in 2010. There’s not a single pollbludger who doesn’t think Rudd will be re-elected in 2010.
LOL
GP, I am probing to see why you support medical help even though they have no right to be here according to you.
bob1234,
if they are offered protection and refuse it – yes.
Zombie Australia wasnt a country then god get your facts straight!
GP/Glen/Bree’s views would be far more accommodated on comments sections of News Ltd articles. They’re in a 5% minority here.
The High Couurt put paid to that crud in the Mabo Case
Glen, There is fear of the unknown (boat people fit into this category) and there’s fear of the known like WC ripping into gear smashing the working conditions of ordinary Australians. Rudd didn’t play on fear – he presented the evidence and the people made a choice.
So what’s your fear of boat people based on?
Glen, indigenous Australians would beg to differ with you.
So it was uninhabited when those illegal diseased migrants/terrorists arrived?
No 904
They have no right to reside here, but they have a right to medical attention if they require it. People should not be allowed to die because they’re not a lawful citizen.
Too bad!
The prior fear of coming close to losing the 2001 election.
Game, set, match.
No 909
Biggest load of crap ever. Unions and Labor were running an egregious fear campaign on Workchoices throughout the entire election campaign and prior to it.
What a awful video mash up of Costello.
And as soon as they are in Australia’s migration zone they have a right – under Australia’s international obligations – to make a claim for refugee status, something you keep conveniently forgetting.
So the three dongles are on the loose tonight
No 915
Sorry, you don’t win because you say so. Try a different customer.
Tell that to Bennelong
but how ironic, John Howard’s seat was named by a non existant citizen of Terra Australis :0)
Glen conceded.
The pride of Howard’s xenophobic dog whistling was ressurected today. I’d be shocked and surprised if all three weren’t here.
It wasn’t a fear campaign just pointing out the FACT that most people on AWAs received less pay had worse working conditions, and could be sacked without any unfair dismissal protection.
They’re just facts, sorry they make you feel comfortable.
That is not a concession bob i hate to break it to you!
Fear of Keating cost him the election in 1996, Fear of the GST almost cost Howie 1998, Fear of Terrorism won Howie 2001, Fear of Latham won Howie in 2004.
Fear wins out because it is a primal instinct.
No 918
Yes, but that doesn’t make their entry legal and it doesn’t change the fact that they’re unlawful citizens. Until the Minister makes a decision to grant a protection visa, they’re illegal immigrants.
Sharman Stone on Lateline.
Funny Glen how you can put any election win/loss down to one single issue.
No 926
Sorry, unlawful citizens should be unlawful non-citizens.
Shame Sharman Shame.
Bob i dont put it down to one issue but i am showing how fear plays a very central role.
How quick were the libs out of the “box’ with the old “dog whistle”………..no greyhound I have backed has ever been that quick!
GP,
Again there is no such thing as illegal immigrants. They are unlawful non citizens. They have no lawful basis to be here but that status does not constitute of itself and illegal act.
I’m waiting for Elliot to come out with “pigs arse!” He’s gotta be pissed!
Is she related to the former NT Chief Minister Shane Stone ?
No 933
Unlawful non-citizen is a sanitised term for illegal immigrant.
Debus doesn’t even have the confidence to refute Barnett’s view on the explosion.
Where did I say it made their entry legal? If they are found to be refugees they get to stay, if they are not found to be refugees they will put on a plane and flown out of the country. Ultimately how they enter the country is completely irrelevant.
O RLY! You’ve completely missed the point again and are just stating self evident irrelevancies.
GP
No, WC was the biggest load of crap ever and the people could smell it a mile away. The fear campaign in 07 was Howard’s lame attempt to portray union officials as gorillas. Rudd didn’t need to run a fear campaign; he simply showed ordinary Australian’s what was happening to other ordinary Australian’s all in the name of making business more profitable. That was fact.
That’s because unlike the law three ministers responsible for border protection, Debus isn’t a compulsive liar.
John Elliot thinks he is on The Footy Show.
GP has been watching too much “Border Security”
936,
No it’s not. They are unlawful because they do not hold a valid visa which provides them with lawful status., The act of being here in Australia without lawful status does not constitute an illegal act.
Glen @ 850,
We will agree to disagree on that, don’t think that any two people on opposite ends of the political spectrum would agree on much
From the Q&A website questions:
“As assistant treasurer is Mr.Bowens job strictlt to cater for illegal boatpersons BECAUSE each one costs us a small F0RTUNE. And why are local citizens denied hospital access to CATER F0R these trouble-making MALC0NTENTS.”
How easy it is to demonise….
Unlike the Liberals, Labor doesn’t dog whistle with half-baked assumptions.
She thinks she is Sharon Stone and enjoying her 15mins of fame crossing her xxxxxxx
Grog @ 864,
Sounds like a winner, Grog, hope he takes you up on that advice
….
SBS keeps saying it was an engine explosion. Where are they getting that from?
The ABC is all “We don’t know”.
The Australia is “A Liberal said something, therefore it is the irrefutable truth”.
That’s because this is an issue the public considers them soft on bob1234 and a distraction from what they want us to worry about (ETS, Global Warming, GFC, Peter Costello).
Sharman Stone is a $^&#ing joke.
How can she sit there and feign sadness for the deaths and injuries of these people while the Howard government caused who knows how many deaths and injuries, both physical and mental, through mandatory detention and detention of children.
actually,
arabanoo ( after whom Manly is named) was first of the Eora, Phillip “berfriended”.