The latest Essential Research survey was conducted during the worst period for Labor of the “utegate” saga, from June 17 to 21, but it shows Labor’s two-party lead steady on 57-43. Further questions: would respondents support tax increases to improve spending on services and infrastructure (mostly not); which taxes would you most and least care to have increased (alcohol and cigarettes okay, GST and petrol big no); whether the government’s emissions trading scheme is tough enough (leaning towards no, but with a high don’t know response); who should or will be Labor’s next prime minister (big win for Julia Gillard on both counts); whether Peter Costello’s departure will be good or bad for the Liberal Party (split decision).
UPDATE: Essential Research have been in touch to point out that their results are composites of two weeks’ polling, and each survey is mostly completed by the weekend, so the impact of the OzCar issue should not be overstated.
Two news nuggets to go:
• State upper house member Lee Rhiannon has been confirmed as the Greens’ lead Senate candidate for New South Wales. The Greens have only previously won a Senate seat in the state in 2001, when they benefited from the one-off of One Nation preferences, but it’s conceivable that a rise in the Labor vote at the next election (assuming it’s a half-Senate rather than a double dissolution) could deliver them enough preferences to secure a seat at the expense of the Liberals. Rhiannon will quit her state seat when the election is called, at which point the Greens will choose her replacement.
• The Australian Parliamentary Library has published a newly updated elections timetable, laying out what might happen and when at federal, state and territory level.
Finally, a reminder that I’m on semi-holiday so apologies if comment moderation isn’t being dealt with promptly.
3,436 Comments
57-43 beats 55-45 but I wonder what the next newspoll will show? 61-39?
Lee Rhiannon will make a fine senator. She has already proved herself in the field. I congratulate her and wish her every luck. I think its also possible that she could be elected at the expence of the ALP.
As for the poll. If this is the result “during the worst period for Labor of the “utegate” saga” then I think the Libs will poll even worse in the next one.
On the speculation about Mr Grech’s possible motives discussed in the previous thread.
I doubt he is the author or instigator of the sham email. My guess is he was set up by somebody BECAUSE he was a diligent, thorough ,efficient and HONEST man.
i.e. Who ever sent him the email hoped he would simply act on it without question because he’d be the last person to suspect a fraudulent communication.
My thought’s are he’s the patsy of a Lib sypathizer in Treasury (if that’s where it came from).
Iceland has become really interesting since the economy collapsed. Once just the land of Bjork and Sigur Ros it has now become a bistallion of the libertarian Left. With the local Tories embattled by even more corruption scandles, it would apear that the real opposition to the Social-Democratic Party/ GreenLeft Movement coalition government comes from the Anarchists!
http://aftaka.org/tag/english/
Oops, here is the link.
Now four Liberals have revolted against Turnbull’s Alcops position in the HoR with the rest of the Libs locked in the toilet while the vote was taken.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2605370.htm?section=justin
Grech was seconded for a short time to Hockey’s office. No wonder Laurie Oakes and Hockey could have a cosy chat tossing names around above the heads of the television viewers in early June. Nor did any of the Liberal senators mention it on Friday when grilling Grech in the Senate.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25674993-5013871,00.html
Seriously, for Australia’s sake. Peter Costello should re-nominate for Higgins and should become the new Opposition Leader.
Turnbull has no credibility left and is now a figure of ridicule.
Tragic.
NSW Newspoll.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/23jun-nswnewspoll.html
Labor done two points to 31, Coalition up 1 to 41 for a 2pp of 45-55.
Rees is satisfaction is done 4 points to 30 and dissatisfaction is up to 49.
Not that good for Rees but today’s the latest caucus meeting for months and no one expects Sartor or anyone else to launch a leadership attack.
My opinion is that the 2pp for Labor is inflated as I expect The Greens to recommend exhausting.
Like I said, for Swannie, lots of bullets on the floor, but no smokin’ gun.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/shock-car-salesman-gives-pm-a-reference-20090622-cu0t.html
Crabby is getting better.
Yes I doubt anyone else will want leadership of the NSW ALP for some time now. Once the public have decided they’ve had enough there’s virtually nothing you can do to stop the inevitable.
Oh dear, all the MSM “commentators” have been very savaged on Turnbull, eg:
Shanananana OZ.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25674946-17301,00.html
Just to clarify: Lee Rhiannon’s replacement will be chosen alongside the state upper house ticket for 2011 in a preselection later this year, which will (almost certainly) be before a federal election is called.
Rudds experience at very senior level in Qld government has held him in very good stead in all of this. He has been kicking goals all over the paddock while turnbull is bloodied and injured and in great danger of being dropped. Maybe not straight any, but the wheel is turning.
Hell hath no fury like a (more than usually) RW NewsLtd hack with a face covered by egg hurled by the one it’s gone overboard on hyperbole & spin to support.
Ah, and back in Oct-Nov 07, TheOz “Kingmaker” clique thought it would have a new King in Malcolm.
BTW: As Cossie made it clear in a speech to the Faithful (last year, I think; it was raised again when he retired) he expected Rudd to win the next election, as the last single term government was Scullin’s which took the brunt of the Great Depression.
PS, Dave @13 Checking its facts before taking action is (all to obviously) not a Liberal characteristic. All I can assume is that Malcolm & Co fell for Rudd’s mild-mannered, boring Clark Kent of politics routine, and forgotten that he really does turn into Dr Death, relentless, nit-picking pursuer of a previous government’s loyal PServants playing political silly-bug#ers.
If Piers A had gone for this tack instead of the Heiner Affair, Canberra’s fakers might have done their homework before pulling this stunt. Any QLDer would have told them (and did say on blogs before the eggs hit Malcolm) Rudd would bring in the heavy ammo & pursue the issue relentlessly,
SNIP: Defamatory comment deleted – The Management.
As predicted the News Ltd papes have dumped on Turnbull as well as Fairfax. Its all over for him.
At this point Rudd, Swan and co would be wise not to overplay the counterattacks. They will be better off loking like the innocent victims rather than those who got down to the same level. There is plenty of ammo in pursuing this chapter to its conclusion. Issues like seeking an explanation from Abetz or an apology for comments on Dr Martine would be justified.
This is News Ltd, they’ll probably concoct a good poll for the Libs, like last week.
Still a far bit to play out in the overall story – like what is the real story on grech ?
Was thinking last night looking at the clip of him from friday that he looks a heck of a lot older than 42. Yep we know he was/is in poor health, but still ?
Was he set up or what ?? If so by whom ?
Or is it another 42 year old from the the same suburb who are “helping police with their enquiries”.
Re: The Movie.
Turnbull would of course be played by Turnbull
Turnbull on ABC AM raised white flag on Rudd and now pushing the line that it’s all Swannie’s fault because the email was faked in the Treasury. Also accused Martine of intimidating Grech. Agree with Soc, an apology to Martine is needed.
* Sloppy Joe called Grech yesterday to “enquire” about his well being.
Evan14, we at PB frown upon such unsubstantiated attacks on politicians such as this! I hope you have the email to prove it
Tom
I think people are still missing the real story here. The government, now that they have Grech’s private email account have teased out a single thread in the whole tapestry of unofficial communications. Grech’s account will have links to other accounts which will have links to yet other accounts, all going back for 7 years.
If everyone has been meticulous in their use of this “unmonitored” medium, then it will all blow over. However…
From today’s front page story in The Age:
Hockey this morning on the Sunrise show, tells Koshie that he phoned Grech on the weekend to equire about his health and only spoke to his answering machine.
Is this one of the reasons why Grech was in a safe house?
Haven’t posted for a while but have had a bit of a read of the last few days adventures – have to go to work shortly
but wanted to get people’s thoughts on the following on the way out
1 – How will Labor blow away the Turnbull argument that as the email was produced in Treasury it’s nothing to do with him (well at least until the link is drawn)? Personally I’d go harder on the due diligence arguments.
2 – Is Hockey really stupid enough to believe that he can continue with the argument that there was an email so all is fine?? It’s a fake you IDIOT
3 – Will Turnbull go this week or hold on for the winter break???
4 – Finally, will the Senate get to vote on Alcopops this week and if they do – has Turnbull got the numbers to get it through????
Have a great day
Curious as I am I cant help but feel that this little lot has FAUX NEWS opps sorry the Australian and NEWS LTD all over it.
It started with that fine honest paper The Telegraph,as we know they don’t make things up,and slotted in with The Australians anti Govt attacks and Conservative columnists attacks as well,Ackerman must have egg all over his face did the Bolter say much ?
ABC National Radio replayed part of an interview between Turnbull and Koche,who asked him all the questions O’Brien should have. Extraordinarily, he stuck to the “its Swan’s fault” line and refused to apologise to Rudd or admit fault. He pointedly avoided the question of whether he saw the email before Friday. Its amazing if he can’t see that its all over for him. He’s not fooling even the lightweight media figures.
Labor should just sit back and watch the AFP and media do the work now. Lines like “can we move on from this distraction and focus on returning protecting the Australian economy” would go down well.
Re Grech – at the hearing, and moments before saying that there may or may not have been an email, Grech turns in his chair and looks at someone in the gallery behind where he is sitting. His body language is that he is signalling that he is about to fold. I wonder who that person was that Grech was looking at as I suspect he/she may be a significant link in the email chain.
Turnbull starting to unravel
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25675742-5005962,00.html
Following on from Steve Price’s shock yesterday that his listeners weren’t interested in this affair at all, far more concerned with the GFC, he doesn’t want to talk about it. Even though he was all excited first thing yesterday morning. As far as he’s concerned the whole thing blew up in Turnbull’s face.
This is his summary of his listeners views: Overwhelmingly not interested in the affair, and they could not see anything unusual or mass conspiracy from Rudd or Swan.
There’s a message there.
Yet, the thickhead Libs will still pursue it today.
And Grech has been in communication with Turnbull’s office, directly or indirectly (probably through Lewis).
Working on the assumption that Grech is tied up in all of this, I wonder if Labor suspected as much before Friday? That might explain the Senate business. It might also explain the safe house stuff. If he were under suspicion, he may have been moved for his own safety, but also to keep him away from possible evidence, contact from other parties etc.
Why would Joe Hockey phone Grech on the weekend if, as he contends, the man only worked in his office for 2 weeks 10 years ago?? Can’t imagine any of my former employers (and I worked for all of them for years, not weeks) ringing me in that situation. I would have thought you’d want to keep your distance.
After Sloppy Joe’s self-immolation yesterday in the House, it would be folly to try and explain his actions using rational thought.
Steve Price’s wife works for Hockey, Price is yet another right wing radio shock jock.
If the appearance of anything untoward is enough to hang a bloke, as the opposition would have had us believe the last week or so, then Hockey has the appearance of a man who just put his own head in a noose.
A good pick up and very interesting clue.
Where is there vision of the hearing? (not a philisophical question or riddle)
We know that Turnbull, Hockey and Abetz all knew about the email by Friday (before it was in the papers). Did they discuss it in Shadow Cabinet? Surely someone must have asked how they got hold of it? Public servants don’t just volunteer information in committee hearings, so someone must have told Abetz what questions to ask to bring out the allegations sought after.
Far too “sloppy” from Joe!
And Turnball’s bizarre performance on TV last night provided Rudd & his tough guys with more avenues for attack today, QT should be hilarious!
TP – it is the only time he turns right around in the chair so if footage can be found shouldnt be hard to fast forward and pick the moment. Unfortunately I didn’t record proceedings (wish I had as would be fascinating to revisit as events unfold).
And remember they’d been asking questions in the House for weeks – based upon what?
They were clearly establishing in the public’s mind that there was a strong link between Grant and the PM (I think I can remember one question on it that came out of nowhere, everyone expected a follow up and there wasn’t one, it was left hanging – if it was part of building a case, then it becomes explicable).
The goss from the ground (referred to by the PM and others, backed up by Turnbull’s ‘conversation’ with Charlton, and Charlton’s clear linkage of that with Grant – even Charlton’s version has him saying something like ‘I’ve never talked to Grant’, when Grant had not been mentioned in Malcolm’s comments) seems to be that MT had been foreshadowing this for sometime.
To suddenly shift the timescale to ‘we only discovered this on Friday, after estimates’ is audacious, to say the least.
On Hocky and Grech, if I was Hockey I’d be stressing that I hardly remembered the guy, not that I had his home phone number.
No 41
Evan, “Turnball” is a banned name. Please refrain from using it.
Evan at least he didnt talk over Kerry like Rudd…
Funny that you were singing his praises 3 days ago, how the worm has turned.
My Wikipedia article on Grech has been nominated for deletion, on the grounds that he isn’t notable enough! We should all rally around Our Godwin. This is really an attack on Australia, suggesting that our political scandals aren’t very important. Well they jolly well are!
Glen, the only time a leader hasn’t tried to talk over Kerry was Turnbull last night. And that was only because he was feeling like a fragile, broken man, scrambling around with his notes and Homer Simpson glasses.
On another note, surely the AFP will be able to tell from this computer if there is contact with anyone in Liberal circles – former staffers or whatever. Then their computers will be seized. If there is any thread back to ‘I only got it on Friday after timetravelling to Saturday for the Tele’ Turnbull, that lie should be the final straw.
Adam then write an article on Ute-gate then you’d have two links…
Psephos @ 47: You *do* know about how wikipedia works, don’t you?
Hey Glen: how about Bruce Bilson for Liberal leader? He’s actually got some decency, unlike the rest of your front bench.
QT today at 2pm will be a corker. Here is the link for those interested.
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/
Hockey trying to contact Grech after the Senate hearing is bizarre and again shows a complete lack of political judgement on his part. It weems that Hockey wants to deal himself into the controversy and become the centre of attention.Sure the guy worked for him 10 years ago for two weeks. But, the Opposition have been hollering about arcane definitons of special dealings by Rudd and Swan. It can only lead to questions of Hockey’s motive and in the hot house of Parliamentary politics is bound to make him look shabby.
If Turnbull resigned then Bruce should get a senior shadow portfolio, i can see him as a future leader but if Turnbull went id give Julie Bishop a shot then after 2010 then Hunt or Bilson, about time a Victorian lead the Libs…
Peter Hartcher on ‘Utegate’ – http://www.smh.com.au/national/leader-who-cried-wolf-gets-caught-by-the-crowd-20090622-cu08.html
One of the many things that annoy me about this affair, is that the media will get off without any scrutiny. While Turnbull started the ute issue, the media fell for it. As Hartcher still does, they bang on about the naivety of Rudd accepting the ute. A $5000 ute was never going to get Mr Grant any favourable treatment – Mr Grant knew it, Rudd knew it and the media should have known it.
What frustrates me is that Mr Grant could have contributed to Rudd $10,000 in cash no questions asked but instead gave him a $5000 ute. Instead of the media realising that, if indeed there was any favouritism, a $5000 ute would clearly garner less favour than $10,000 cash they continue to assert that Rudd is politically inexperienced.
Clearly, the only thing Rudd is naive about is that he overestimated the intelligence of the media. If a $5000 ute will get favours from a Minister then every political donation in the country should be stopped.
Yes, since when did the Liberal Work”Choices” Party become concerned for the welfare of employees?
Don’t mind Bilson some of the time but then has a complete loser as a staffer so I question his judgement.
Sloppy Joe is truly an idiot
G’day womble @ 27. If the Libs have any sense, they’ll drop this whole deal, expecting that the whole deal will fade fast in the polled public’s mind.
If they do, the ALP will go back to what precipitated this whole attack at the time it did: Good economic news, and start sticking it to the Opposition where it will hurt more than a few polled Jo Publics who might have been swayed by a Turnbull victory – rolling the legislation guaranteeing construction companies’ line of credit.
This one really has lead-ballooned, as Turnbull knew when he decided to go with the faked email scam … and it’s lead ballooned in the Liberal heartland the bill tried to protect – the construction industry, from the developers, engineers & major suppliers … all the way down the food chain to subbies & tradies, their families & the flow-on effect to suppliers & community services when companies collapse, subbies go bankrupt & jobs are lost.
Rudd’s government has bent over backwards to be even-handed, ensuring that no “pork-barreling” claims would survive scrutiny. In a way, it might prove to be the best wedge ever, and I’m sure, given when utegate started, the Coalition realise this.
May your Oz Lotto ticket be a winner!
If the Liberals had anything to do with the origin of this illegal material, with which they tried to bring down an elected government to seize power for themselves, this will be the political scandal of the decade! This story is yet far from unfinished. Turnbully should get out right now. And maybe not him alone either.
Kit at 55.
Rudd’s problem is that a lot of the media do not like him. This is widely known and was mentioned by Shaun Carney in The Age recently.
Therefore when these allegations surfaced, many in the media were very happy to believe Rudd was corrupt.
If they liked him, they would have been more circumspect. They wouldn’t have had such a clouded judgement.
They assumed Rudd was lying and Rudd was corrupt. Over what? Nothing but a rusty ute as a basis for corruption? The absurdity of it underlines how much some of them dislike Rudd.
Glen @54 “but if Turnbull went id give Julie Bishop a shot then”
O please, o please any god who might be listening MAKE IT HAPPEN! Even die-hard Tories (male & female) say they’d vote informal rather than put her in power!
Annabel Crabb reduces the atack against the Government to it’s core.
“After all, when you strip away the sizzle from this sausage, when you get to the matters which are – as the Prime Minister actually put it yesterday – “core and foundational”, the real-world corruption equation against the Government is kind of thin.
Prime Minister receives rusty ute from Queensland car dealer, who in return gets diddly-squat.
The technical point on which the Opposition is probably right turns on something far more cerebral; whether Grant got a warmer degree of hand-holding and nicer biscuits in the waiting room than his professional brethren, and whether Wayne Swan misled the Parliament on this point”.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/shock-car-salesman-gives-pm-a-reference-20090622-cu0t.html
Chris Uhllman and Barry Cassidy dislike Rudd, the ABC was doing its best last night to dent the attacks on Turnball’s credibility.
GG, yes, Annabel nailed it, but, in typical media style, she does it now (when the attack fails) rather than identify the attack’s shaky grounds from the start.
My view is Rudd has taken advantage of modern media and basically sidelined the press Gallery, this was a chance for them to prove they still had power and he had better dam well take them seriously.
I haven’t seen an Antony Green post since Sunday, I’m curious if he still holds Steve Lewis in high regard.
Kay Hull: she’s far more competent than Julie Bishop. Why not Kay for Deputy Leader?
Many in the media would have been being fed false info by Turnbull and other sources in the weeks leading up to this explosion. They would have been backgrounded on what was to be a big story/scoop, and in their cloistered Canberra world, would have put themselves in this mindset. That being the case it took some of the…less cerebral (paging Mr. Uhllman) members of the gallery a couple of days for their analysis to catch up with events. But the way they have oscillated wildly has made for a very Shakespearean couple of days. And still we don’t know who is Othello and who Iago.
The press gallery don’t like it that Rudd appears on SUNRISE and FM radio regularly.
When people are in pressure situations like this, about to do something wrong under heavy scrutiny, they will seek out a mentor or co conspirator if they happen to be nearby. If Grech did do that then the person he was looking to may have been someone with more knowledge than just an email.
As I said yesterday, the way Hockey carried on yesterday, I think he is in it up to his neck.
Tom.
To be fair, Annabel Crabb not only gets it right now, but I don’t recall her being one of those to most vigorously pursue this on Saturday either. Some people just held judgement till more facts came out, which was the correct approach IMO.
Glen if Turnbull goes ( which I don’t think he will) it needs to be Hunt that gets the nod and the rest of the front bench has to resign. Time to start afresh. But that isn’t going to start until after the next election, and even then the Liberals future depends on getting good candidates. And why would anyone in there right mind bother when they have to fight back right wing nutters.
I have only just come on board and was replaying AM on another tab and got quite a surprise.
Hockey said that he hadn’t spoken to Grech for at least a couple of years and yet I just read that he rang Grech over the weekend.
Something smells about this. I said last night that Hockey may be involved.
Hockey wants to get Swan
Turnbull wants to get Rudd
This e-mail scam would have given them “both” and probably brought down the Government in the process. They have been playing for high stakes.
Only supposition, mind and may be hard to prove but looking more and more likely by the hour. If someone spills the beans and the whole facard comes crumbling down, then this could prove the biggest political story ever.
The media are so blinded in their quest to prop up the Opposition that they caren’t see the wood for the trees or are deliberately ignoring it.
Where is the smart, investigative journalist that really could get their name up in lights over this. Lewis thought he had it but has been so compromised in his dealings with the Libs that he missed it. He thought he had it but did it the typical lazy way, blinded by his enduring love for all things Liberal.
The new leadership team should be:
Brownyn Bishop and Wilson Tuckey, a sort of Ma and Pa Kettle homely look.
It wasn’t that the media journos were willing to believe Rudd was corrupt or anything like that, in fact I think they all know that Rudd is much straighter and down the line than his predecessors.
It was the media’s personal dislike of Rudd that makes them more than willing to take any opportunity to smear him, regardless of the flimsiness of their case. So they recklessly and negligently smeared him to the max, even when he had alerted them to the fact that an email didn’t exist. These guys know Rudd isn’t in any way corrupt, probably why they take even the tiniest opportunity and blow it up.
The corruptness is within the media.
This is big. The government must leave no stone unturned.
The AFP likewise.
Yes, Thomas Paine, but will thh media learn its lesson? No.
Let’s hope that Media Watch will have a good go.
Turnbull will only resign if someone challenges him, he’s not the type to give something up without a fight…
One thing for sure, Mr Turnbull’s approval rating reached its zenith in the last Newspoll. It’s only downhill from here.
I’m afraid you may be right, TP, the corruption is in the (mainstream) media. I think we are witnessing the death-throes of the MSM in the face of sites like this one, where a range of views is accessible, in real time, instead of one “expert’s”/”insider’s” one-sided analysis. The old media just can’t keep up with the blogosphere when it comes to fast-moving stories like Fakemail.
TP
Agreed. I said on Friday that given the implausibility of what was being said about Rudd, this thing would expose who his enemies were. Simple solution: no more interviews for any of them.
And heres the crux of the matter.
The media so in bed with politicians and particularly a vexed Liberal Party that they make themselves part of the game and rather than be analysts and journalists — they joined in with Turnbull, agreeing to help prosecute his campaign rather than look at merits. And in so doing they missed the biggest scoop of all, a faked email, a prearranged job, a scam and possible further corruption elsewhere.
Some in the media have been as ‘exposed’ by this as Turnbull. Their colors are well and truly revealed, as Liberal Party campaign agents and sabateurs and not journalists.
The fact that Steve Lewis’s wife works for Hockey is surely important. The AFP should go after the lying Liberal stooges that run The Australian. They’re in this pit of slime up to their eyeballs.
Who was the staffer whose name has been mentioned who once worked for Costello?
On the plus side for Rudd, regardless of whether the media likes him, he is sure to gain sympathy popularity from the public. He has been attacked unfairly, and had his integrity questioned on the basis of a fraud. As long as he doesn’t get too bitter in the counter attacks (just stick to correct process) he will come out well ahead.
I still believe that Rudd needs to go on tv at some stage and make a statement to the nation, since the office of PM has been sevrely slandered.
I think he should do it from the back of his ute
i have often wondered why the American Presedent always sends out his press secretary to do the interviews. i think this is a very good idea.
But i have heard Mr. Obama uses his phone and the internet widely.
We dont buy papers any more because the news they print is often over by the next morning.
Do you mean Steve Price? Or does Joe run a doss-house for media spouses?
Skynews’ rubbish online poll (which never even reveals the number of votes) has changed to calling this the “OZ car-fake email issue”. Not surprisingly, Skynews’ conservative-skewed demographic has voted 54% that they are “over it”!. Wishful thinking on their part, I’d surmise.
If they just took electoral rejection with grace, humility and acceptance they wouldn’t get into such a mess. But no, WE made the mistake in voting them out because they’re Born To Rule.
Oh Joe!
“Our smear campaign is based on fact”
85 Psephos
Blood hell. That’s explosive information. Plus Hockey calling Grech on Saturday.
How do you think Labor should handle this in QT? Avoid mentioning either issue or fire both barrels?
Didn’t know that.
Imagine if it was the other way around, a reporter whose spouse worked for a senior labor frontbencher, was attacking the libs – there would be the hell to pay.
I don’t think the media are personally hate Rudd, at least not initially. Its just that the Rise of Rudd sold stories, and then so did Most Popular PM, and now the Fall of Rudd would be an even better scoop. I do think they have been a bit annoyed that he has refused to Fall though. He just isn’t playing fair.
So Steve Price’s wife works for Hockey and Steve Lewis’s wife also works for Sloppy Joe? That explains a lot. Price was boasting yesterday that the Libs had told him weeks ago they had the smoking gun to bring down Rudd.
Um, maybe I have my Steves mixed up. If so I withdraw, Mr Speaker.
The bosses of The Australian hate him, because they are Liberal stooges.
Kieren Gilbert’s latest Skynews’ report is even tougher on Turnbull than Spiers was earlier this morning. Gilbert says Turnbulls attack on Rudd has “backfired spectacularly” and MT’s the one who now must face “serious questions”.
Skynews’ next item on the Opposition Alcopops backflip vote is being portrayed as having “effectively split” the Opposition because a few of them voted against it,so perhaps our Glen’s speculations about a new leader could be valid.
Anything to win, win at all costs. That seems to be their motto.
Glen @ 54,
If you’re still posting, I’d be most interested to hear why Tony Abbott is not on your list of potential future Opposition Leader.
The problem we have with the political media in Australia is that it is polarised between conservatives and leftists. There are plenty of right-wing commentators, who support the Liberals and attack Labor from the right, and plenty of left-wing commentators, who support the Greens or other left groups and attack Labor from the left, and a few impartial commentators who don’t support anyone. What we DON’T have is ANYONE who supports the centrist positions by Labor (which the majority of the Australian people vote for), and who openly and consistently supports Labor. In every newsroom across the country, it’s fine to be a Liberal, and it’s fine to be a Green or a “left Labor” critic. The one thing you’re not allowed to be is right-wing Labor.
For the record, these are the people that voted against the alcopops bill:
Darren Chester (Nat)
Alby Shultz (Lib)
Tony Windsor (Ind)
Paul Neville (Nat)
Wilson Tuckey (Lib)
The real story though is that no Liberals voted FOR the legislation, all the other Libs and Nats abstained.
This is very strange when Dutton said yesterday that the Liberals were now going to support this legislation.
Psephos(Adam): What’s the Rudd tactics committee got planned for the Libs today?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/BushHoward-press-conference/2004/06/04/1086203597415.html
Steve Lewis has form as a liberal tool.Check out this piece of Kabuki in the rose garden.
Glen is a wet, Abbott is a dry.
The government in exile.
Psephos,
A-Bloody-men
We need a Dr Rachel Maddow, Rhodes Scholar, openly left, very fair minded and is a killer at interviewing without creating enemies. Australian media has dumbed down to the extent that watching commercial political reporting @ night is like reading Australia Picture Mag.
By the way I think it’s Steve Price who’s wife works for Hockey although I might be wrong, I can go back because BLOODY OPTUS have capped my broadband @ 64kbps.
Dogma, dunno if I’d call Rachel Maddow centre-right, and Adam I reckon your lot generally does OK. There is still some realigning going on as those in bubbles realise that power has shifted, but I don’t reckon the Labor right should be crying poor about ‘media bias’. Reminds me of another bunch.
Getting Brenda to restand and putting him in the leadership again is a much more reasonable option.
Might just save the libs from annihilation at the coming DD election, which will be irresistible to labor given the damage turnbull has inflicted upon himself.
Psephos @ 104: “In every newsroom across the country, it’s fine to be a Liberal, and it’s fine to be a Green or a “left Labor” critic. The one thing you’re not allowed to be is right-wing Labor.”
Psephos,
I’d appreciate your listing a couple of the “left Labor” critics in the MSM as I’d like to read or hear something other than Lib and Green critics.
ShowsOn i dont ascribe to factions as im not alligned…
I have both wet and dry beliefs…hence a moderate in the true sense of the word…
I’ve been following Maddow since she started on Air America Radio—she’s exceptionally articulate and incisive with a pleasant self-deprecatory sense of humour.
ShowsOn @ 107 Abbott is a hard-line Papist, with rumours he’s part of Opus Dei. His attempts to limit the “abortion” drug & stem cell research led to two victorious multi-party “women’s revolts” in the last years of the Howard government.
Draw up a list of likely Liberal supporters who regard this as a crime greater than being a communist; starting with certain Lodges, Christian sects, women’s groups, a host of “medical” support groups like Spinal Injuries, MS, MND and on and on and on.
I doubt even Julie Bishop generates this much enmity!
pancho
She’s left in US which is more to the right than Australia. If she was in Australia she would be considered close to centre-right.
Oh that’s right, there are no such thing as factions in the Liberal party.
Whenever the federal parliament has a conscience vote, the non-religious based position wins by a 2:1 margin. Abbott seems to enjoy being part of the 1/3 that lose.
I disagree. If she was in Australia she would be part of the Labor Left.
Yesterday was Pearl Harbor. I think today will be more like Stalingrad.
#105
By “support” he meant grudgingly allow it to pass. In his speech he attacked it and disputed Roxon’s arguments the same as he did when they opposed it. I can’t imagine any Liberals being able to stomach actually going into the chamber and sitting with the government.
To save myself the effort of re-writing this in other words, this is my view of the whole farce as expressed (in slightly shorter form) to Malcolm Farr over at his current blog on the subject. Please forgive me quoting myself:
Which is even worse since the try and make and destroy democratically elected governments and individuals as a personal revenue decision, thus having no interest in honest journalism. They should be in jail.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/23jun-nswnewspoll.html
Christ, you know both leaders are a shambles when undecided beats either choice as Preferred Premier.
dogma @ 116
My knowledge of Australian politics/media isn’t nearly as extensive as yours, but I do know Maddow’s views are very far “left” for American journalists.
In foreign policy, she opposed both invasions of Afghan. and Iraq, which is to the “left” of Obama and Rudd’s enthusiastic support of the Bush/Howard Afghan occupation.
jj
Agree. Maddows is about the same as Glenn Greenwald, who she regularly interviews. They are way to the left of Obama and are continually bagging him, as they should.
She also advocates for prison reform, gay marriage and universal healthcare (a bigger deal in the US, granted). It’s hard to say for sure, but I think she would be more ideologically inclined further left. She’d probably get on with Jules.
BB 121
Hear Hear!
I wonder how Ralph Willis is feeling today.
I heard Steve Fielding say yesterday that he was definitely voting against the ETS. He didn’t mention not believing in AGW. He said he wanted to wait until after Copenhagen because it would be “suicide” to “go it alone”.
A DD must be looking awfully tempting at the moment to the Ruddster.
On reflection, I think it will more like Bull Run
The only reason they are letting alcopops pass is that they are terrified of an early election. They will eventually pass the CPRS for the same reason, although there will be a lot of floor-crossing in the Senate.
For anyone who missed them, here are some of today’s newspaper headlines:
The Advertiser – Grand Fake Auto
Herald Sun – What a Car Wreck
The Australian – Turnbull’s Fake Email Nightmare
Daily Telegraph – Backfire
Courier Mail – Ute Backfire
The Age – Fake Email Trips Turnbull
I’m dissapointed that “MAL-FUNCTION” didn’t get a run.
jjulian,
Maddow’s great isn’t she.
She is sometimes far left on climate change, but she is centre left on the economy and health care. Remembering American are trying to design a new health care system in which everyone can have healthcare not just the rich.
My opinion is that American politics is futher right than Australia and in Australia we might bitch around the edges but we’ve got the balance right of Greens left, Labor left/right, Liberals Moderates/conservatives. I just don’t happen to agree with alot of the Liberal ideology.
What she does when interviewing is, debate the Pat Buchanan’s (very far right republican) and win that debate with logic and class. I agree with showson that she is Labor left and labor centre, but that doesn’t stop her from having a debate with the far right evangelists – wiping the floor with them – all with class.
SteveK @127: Thanks. I’ve been trying to find a way of getting that off my chest ever since this idiocy all started.
Adam I was thinking more of ‘the Nek’….
Via Annabel Crabb’s twitter:
She also says that Chris Pearce has announced he is going to retire at the next election.
Liberal frontbencher and Costello numbers man Chris Pearce will not contest his seat of Aston at the next election.
http://www.vexnews.com/news/5054/leaving-liberal-mp-for-aston-chris-pearce-is-retiring/
ShowsOn, snap!
“Their ABC” puts a possibly different subliminal angle:
Rudd off the hook, Turnbull admits
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2605642.htm
“Steve Fielding has just issued a press release saying he is taking Tamiflu.”
But there have been less swine flu deaths this month than last. ??? I put it to you Fielding that swine flu is a fraud, and you should not take Tamiflu until we have more evidence.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25676850-2862,00.html
Why is it a blow for Turnbull? Just cause he’s a Costello man…?
I don’t see why anyone should be even labelled as “left” for supporting public health care. It simply works better than private health care. Even the UK has a public system. Private health care always winds up costing more than public and rarely works as well. Health care is a classic case of a service that people underestimate their need for until they are actually sick, and then can be made to pay anything. It should be public on principle.
US private health care costs more per capita than Australia’s health care by a margin so large that it would pay for our entire education system with the change. And people in the US still die from lack of medical treatment!
The by-election will be fun.
Whoa!
http://www.theage.com.au/national/cleary-likely-to-take-brunswick-off-labor-20090622-cu01.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Cleary to contest Brunswick at the next state election! He came first in a record field of 22 candidates at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wills_by-election,_1992
What by-election?
He doesn’t trust scientists on climate change, why should he trust the scientists who invented Tamiflu?
I don’t understand why some sections of the media keep talking about the June 30 deadline for nominating for Higgins.
If the Liberals had some sort of massive catastrophe, then whoever wins the nomination for Higgins would step aside to allow Costello to run.
Buried in Michelle “La Stupenda” Grattan’s column this afternoon:
If he was the Oppo’s source, then how can they possibly say they don’t know him?
Wonder if Joe was sloppy enough to leave a message on Grech’s answer machine on the weekend? Something like ‘ keep your trap shut or i’ll come over and sit on you’
I’d vote for Phil if i was in Brunswick…hope he wins and not the Greens…
Good that Pearce has gone that’s another seat to get new blood into…
Oh dear, the AFP suspects that HE made the email, and HE was the one who showed it to the media and the opposition!
If that is true, he is completely stuffed, not only will he lose his job he could be charged with all sorts of things.
Last year we were told that Pearce WAS an example of Liberal new blood!
Were you told that by me?
He’s 46 yes that is youngish but we could get a 30 year old to replace him
Aston is a safe seat even if there was a by-election we’d hold it easy but.
This is looking like a big investigative job for 4 Corners …
You almost lost it at the by-election…
That list of newspaper headlines is interesting.
Here’s another.
I was driving back from the far far north of SA having just heard on radio that the e-mail was found and fake and stopped at a deli in Liberal party heartland selling the local newspaper the ‘Northern Argus’ which had the front page headline:
“$11.5 million stimulus package for far north schools”
And continued with details like ‘this school got $2 million for a library, this school got $2 million for something else, this school got …..” and so on.
Not a bad day for the ALP.
FYI the Senate has begun. House to start in another 90 minutes.
He’s a socialist!!!
He’s young and only came in in 2001! Sheesh! Do you like revolving doors in the Liberal Party?
Well wasn’t he on the backbench when Nelson was leader? And he was shifted to the front I guess cos he voted for Turnbull in both ballots?
You got to love the Senate, they are currently debating whether or not to debate the CPRS bills.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2605642.htm
Hockey has contradicted what he said earlier when he denied having any contact with Grech for years on AM.
If the Feds are any good they will already have a big chart on the wall and be drawing lines between all possible players. Grech, a possible Mr/Ms X in Treasury, Lewis & his wife, Hockey & his wife (Crosby), Costello, Pearce, etc, etc.
The Libs “dirt unit” has probably not been disbanded at all and has probably been working overtime since the election. I would be tempted to have a detailed look there too. All supposition, mind, but all worth a close examination.
BB121 – Fantastic. A PBer linked Farr’s Friday article so I read it. Was a bit stunned by it because he has been relatively fair on Sky Agenda & Insiders lately. As you say he got conned into joining the bandwagon.
And Lewis and NewsLtd. should not be allowed to get away with it. Rudd needs to keep the punters aware that Murdoch mob are madhatters.
Great work. I’ll even link to his site today to see your work it in all its glory.
Sorry, I left out Turnbull. He has lines drawn away from him in multiple directions, especially from his office.
Only supposition, mind!
Come to think of it – Ruddie is a clever little devil and will score very well out of this inquiry by AFP – shows he got the guts to go after things which defame Labor and thats good.
May get rid of a lot of future problems in one hit.
I heard Hockey say this a.m. that until last weekend he hadn’t spoken to Grech in 18 months. The next interview changed it to 2 years.
Turnbull, in talking to AM, said that he has had many conversations with Grech since the election. Interesting, isn’t it. I hope Grattan is right and I will then have to take back my comment that I felt a bit sorry for Grech and his health.
Forget the supposition Scorpio – it looks glaringly dangerous for him. As somebody else said earlier Turnbull has only said that no Lib Party pollies were involved.
A clever statement by a far too clever lawyer/merchant banker.
Looks suspiciously like the Young Libs are a bit unhappy that their main trump card in the scam failed in his mission!
Well, there haven’t been too many of them lately. More like a pile of very silly comments.
Here goes Fielding…
Oh god, not Fielding. After one and a half Senate terms, he’s still completely out of his depth. The sooner the next election puts him out of his misery, the better.
I would think Young Labor fanatics would be leaving “Thank-You” cards at Grech’s house. He has pretty much guaranteed the Libs will lose the next election. If you follow the Lindsay timeline and subsequent legal action the trials will be occurring around the time of the next election. Early or late election, the Liberal goose is cooked.
That beggars belief. He is probably banking on all tracks having been covered comprehensivly but he himself seems to be backpedalling and changing his story continually so there is a fair chance that once a link or two in the chain is exposed, the whol sorry mess may come crumbling down and take a number of players down together.
This is where the media should be focussing all their efforts, the Libs are toast and not worth any effort to prop up now. They could be on the crusp of the biggest political story in Australia’s history. They are so far being found wanting!
The Senate is currently voting to delay debating the CPRS. It looks like delaying it will win with the support of Xenophon and Fielding but not the Greens.
Fielding is still in his first term, he was elected in 2004, took his seat in 2005.
Well, not if the AFP investigation proves that Grech had something to do with creating the email. And not if the AFP proves he knew the email was a fake when he referred to it in the committee last Friday.
Not that they were going to win the next election anyway… but what on earth are you smoking?
Oops, guilty of misuse of terminology. But you know what I meant
Rudd may be late to Q. Time then. A quick trip to the GG…
Turnbull is running up the white flag. Probably as a result of pressure in the Party Room Meeting to clean up his mess.
He has stated he is prepared to do a “mutual” apology with Rudd.
Fat chance of that happening. Why would Rudd want to apologise to Turnbull. Turnbull has just put Rudd through an excruciating week, threatened his job and the Government.
This is just a ploy by Turnbull to try and get himself of the hook. Rudd has done nothing wrong and now has the chance to play him like a Marlin until his credibility is totally exhausted and will then hoist him up on the petard!
Shows on 173,
Incorrect. Fielding is in the 2nd cycle of 6 years, the senators elected in 2007 took their seats in 2008. His term expires on 30 June 2011. Next election will (hopefully) be his last
Polyquats 168 – Turnbull is being clever. He is just saying ‘no Liberal politician’. He specifically left out no Liberal staffer or adviser or sympathiser so if any of those are involved he can say that he never said they were not – thinks it will keep him in the clear.
It may have at first but I think it has now gone too far with all the press front pages today. They are mad at him.
Why not? Labor supporters wouldn’t be worried about it. Grech is currently the gift that keeps on giving.
I would have thought disgruntled Young Libs would be the likely suspects.
Forgot my quote for my post @ 178.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25675742-5005962,00.html
Senators do six-year terms, and Fielding is four years into his first term. This is the second Parliament during which he has been a Senator, but that’s not the same thing.
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=(Id:handbook/allmps/e4r);rec=0;
There is no such thing as “2nd cycle”, there are just terms, Fielding has been elected once, he is in his first term as a Senator for Victoria.
Your answer itself demonstrates this he took his seat in 2005, he is nominally elected for 6 years, that means his term expires in 2011.
This relates to the fact the Senate is a permanent chamber with fixed terms, it is the House of Representatives that has variable term limits. This is also why when a new parliament is elected, everyone moves into the Senate before moving into the House of Reps so those members can be sworn in.
Errr, he would say that, wouldn’t he. What a prawn!
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25675742-5005962,00.html
What a dishonest dog. Rudd never said that, and Turnbull knows it.
183-184
my bad. either way, hopefully this will be his last term.
What’s the bet that Turnbull makes an offer in Question Time to apologise to Rudd if Rudd apologises to Turnbull!
For what? Trying through one of the grubbiest smear campaigns ever, to destroy Rudd. He’s gotta be kidding!
Need more popcorn!
I can’t understand why everyone is being so polite to Fielding. I would be quizzing him on other aspects of science which he has trouble accepting eg. the theory of evolution for starters.
I do understand tho’ that he has now accepted that the earth is oblate spheroid orbiting the sun.
I think Turnbull is referring to Rudd’s analogy that Turnbull has “his finger prints all over this email”, which was a great piece of imagery, but of course doesn’t in the slightest imply that Turnbull wrote the email.
Labor will probably persevere with trying to extract an apology out of Turnbull to Rudd and I think he now has no option but I think they will also be putting the heat on for a raft of apologies to Swan to bury them even deeper.
Steve Lewis scoop: ‘Rudd eggs Grech’s house’.
…email with photos to follow.
Actually Adam he did so he should apologise…
Check Hansard
Benji – did you notice our fab. member (only joking) stuck next to Hockey yesterday during the first censure motion. His face was a picture when Rudd started speaking. Glad I watched because it added to the day.
Someone mentioned earlier about Grech turning around before he ’spilled the beans’. I noticed that and wondered what he was doing.
Finns has got it on video but I think the people in the background were out of range of the camera. If it is important I think Doug Cameron or someone else would have picked it up and maybe the AFP if they look at the tape of the proceedings.
It was awfully obvious.
Love this bit from Annabell Crabb. Where was she a couple of days ago?
http://www.smh.com.au/national/shock-car-salesman-gives-pm-a-reference-20090622-cu0t.html
Didn’t Malcolm call Kevin Rudd corrupt?
If you are so confident it is in Hansard, you should be able to find it and paste it here.
Rudd never stated or implied that Turnbull himself, or any other opposition M.P. wrote the email. Turnbull was in such a terrible position yesterday that he had to refute assertions that hadn’t been asserted.
I do however note that Turnbull only promised that no opposition M.P. had anything to do with writing the email, he didn’t refute the possibility that a Liberal staffer wrote it.
Update!
Photo’s show conclusively that Rudd was joined by Pauline Hanson in the egg-gate scandal now unfolding!
He didn’t use the word corrupt, he just said that Rudd had mislead parliament, and offered his mates a financial advantage, which of course counts as corruption.
Don’t think so Glen. Rudd has been cleared.
There is more to play out before Turnbull can claim any innocence in this saga!
Anyone notice that Piers has switched off his comments?
BB – Farr must have read your piece because he answered someone else just below it.
Let’s see what happens to Lewis & Milne. Won’t hold my breath in expectation of them going because Murdoch has no scruples.
BH,
Yes I saw and big Bob didnt look happy. What is his shadow portfolio by the way?
Probably under instructions by his Editor after my comment yesterday about the possibility of a full in-tray of writs that I have been predicting for some time.
The dialog box was still there five minutes ago, but I have to say (after finally summoning up the courage to read his diatribe) even Pies has precious few mates on this one. some quite long anti-Pies comments were included, but the total still only came to 26 at last viewing.
This is a very poor show for the wingnuts’ leading light (well, you could hardly miss him, could you?). Pies’ last feedback comment saying that being biased towards the Libs is understandable because there is “nothing wrong with highlighting integrity over manipulation” is hilarious.
Meanwhile, the scumbags at the Tele, seemingly denied in their quest to further harass Godwin Grech have posted this plea:
[Do you know Godwin Grech? Call us in confidence on (02) 9288 3413 or tell us via the feedback form below.”
These turkeys really don’t have any idea of common human decency.
I have a good mind to ring them up and fake knowing GG. Fraud seems to be the modus operandi over at News these days.
Bernard Keane has a piece in Crikey – one paragraph is here
BB, it just says:
So I say, we tie up the phone line by all calling it and saying “no, I don’t know him”
Benji – he is Shadow Defence Personnel I think. Always got a piece in paper up here praising himself for being so good with the old Vets in the area. Always trying to get face in paper with the Vets. Truly painful I can tell you.
Not see up here very often in person tho. My greatest excitement was seeing him outside local bakery one day with a pie in each hand. I think he has given them up a bit now by the look of him. Must be on a health kick.
Scorpio @ 185 I’d judge Malcolm’s communications on what he did not say rather than what he did. The truth will lie in what he refrains from saying. For example, is he saying Liberal Parliamentarians, rather than Opposition members, or members of the Liberal party etc. He’s a barrister – pay close attention to his language.
News Ltd outlets might start getting a flood of fake e-mails now. They won’t know what to believe now.
Serves themselves right.
OzPol – yeah, I agree. His words are very carefully managed at the moment. Also trying to cover himself by saying Rudd has accused him of being involved in the fabrication of the email.
Rudd hasn’t actually said that but Turnbull is good at implying plausibly.
I knew it was HIM all along. You gotta trust your instinct.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/06/15/newspoll-53-47-2/all-comments/#comment-290869
Hmmmm, Sloppy Joe’s role is getting more and more murky. AFP should follow the trails.
Has everyone got their popcorn handy.
OzPol @ 211
Howard would be proud!
The Bennelong Car Yard attack!!!!
Glen, can you quote Hansard where Rudd accused Tunrbull of “having a hand in fabricating the email?” It’s certainly not my recollection, although I may have missed something. Turnbull has tried very hard to turn the question into one of whether the Oppo *wrote* the email in order to avoid the question of how they *used* the email, and where they got it from.
Well, Rudd DID say that the Rainmaker’s fingerprints were all over it. Does that count?
#211
Yes, here’s a good example:
Okay, but did he describe it some other way?
Later in the same answer:
I wonder where the Libs are leading to with this. Seems as though they feel they might be able to take some bark of Rudd in relation to a representation by Maxine through Rudd’s office?
The Libs don’t get that the great unwashed are sick of the whole ute thing and don’t care. It is a big *yawn*
There was an email frm Charlton to Grech re another car dealer. Perhaps it is the bloke from Bennelong. But Kev already mentioned it in Parliament a couple of weeks ago.
So the live feed of Parliament makes you accept a disclaimer which says in part:
‘The material shall not be used for: [...]
* satire or ridicule’
That’s a bit rough isn’t it? I hope A.Crabb never looks over this service before writing a column. Democracy could collapse. Oops, have I just contravened something?
So they’re asking about Longreach Motors? Wouldn’t a conversation with a car dealer just support the contention that Swan was even handed? Or is it that Swan did NOT have a conversation? Whatever, does it matter now?
Heh! Heh! “Sloppy Joe” gets another guernsey
The Libs are rattled. Swan called Tuckey “sloppy joe’ and no PoO, just Hockey belatedly jumps up to slag him.
Dont laugh, this is getting serious.
http://twitter.com/annabelcrabb
Christ! I’m trying to get out of the house, but this is hilarious!
Tony Abbott now making pre-emptive points of order!
Too ridiculous.
Very strange. Swan calls Hockey sloppy joe twice, no outrage by Hockey and no support given by any other Lib including Abbott.
Me thinks Hockey is in deep do do in Ute-gate and the rest are keeping their distance.
Turnbull has lost the plot. Maybe he needs federal police protection too.
Turnbull has lost it completely
Peter Martin reports Swan helping out the ute sales.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/06/swan-delivers-stimulus.html
Hells bells, Turnbull getting desperate now. he’s almost had a fit!
The rabble are trying to totally sabotage QT!
I think it’s kev that needs the police protection, Turnbull looks like he’s about to jump the table and throttle him.
Poor Harry – the Oppn are touchy little things today. A bit different to when they were throwing around accusations about Kev’s integrity.
Now their own is so very important to them.
How funny is Albo? Didn’t know he had it in him.
I am not watching QT. What are the oppn so upset about?
Did Albo just declare “email security awareness week”?
It was 2 weeks ago. And he is outlining the tips that were given to primary school kids, like be careful about attachments from unusual sources. Directed the opposition to staysmartonline.com.au.
I was right. Hockey is in the frame now!
This is a fantastic alternative to the “comedy channel”.
Swannie has done his job spectacularly well.
‘Of course they weren’t all dealt with by me you moron’ LOL go Swanny
Here comes Tanner!! on the AFP investigation.
Actually, referring to the Member for Grey as a “moron” is not a good look.
Benji – really just pointing out Libs integrity – Lindsay leaflets got Abbott standing up and down but Albo was trying to get digs in around his ‘email security’ answer to the member for Lindsay.
Every dig got Abbott or someone else seeking point of order.
The Oppn is still trying to get Swan to say that he had no other telephone calls to car dealers other than the one to John Grant. That really is their point re preferential treatment from Swan.
More pressure on the Opposition to open up their computer systems to the AFP.
Dont tell me Grech created the email himself on the Treasury system, then sent it to his own private email at home and then delete the email from the Treasury system.
Tanner is accusing the Liberals for not co-operating with AFP.
Turnbull is is foaming at the mouth. He needs to be put down. Is there a vet in the House?
Judi Moylan should really be on the Oppn’s front bench. She at least doesn’t come across as shrill or a lunatic.
In fact, I’d reckon Judi Moylan would like to strangle Turnbull and Hockey at this point. They have really cast the Liberal Party in a poor light.
RT: @DarrylMason: home fax? Come clean Treasurer. We know about the carrier pigeon rookeries in your backyard! RESIGN!
ZM – what is RT
oh ‘retweet’ heh
“The fake email that was used by the LOTO to smear the PM and the Treasurer was the fault of the Treasurer – where did he get that logic from?” – Swannie – classic.
ZM – Thanks but how is that different to twitter?
I listened to it yesterday, entertaining it was. The Labor party were well organized, at no time did the accuse the Liberals of actually writing it. They closest they came as Lindsay Tanner saying he would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn’t.
The suggested several times that they should cooperate with the federal police and make their computer system available for search.
And one member, I can’t remember which gave them lessons on where the delete button was.
The first direct mention of the possibility was Turnbull claiming the Liberals had no involvement.
Stranger still was Abbot early in the debate pushing the line, “we have a police state” because Rudd called in additional resources to work out what was going on.
But then Abbot was the only one that treated the issue as a political problem the rest thought they where in front of a judge and could win on a trivial point.
Tony Burke can now be dubbed as the Rainman.
Mike Rann’s take on the last few days events in the context of SA’s dodgy document affair that has all but ruined the leadership of Martin Hamilton-Smith:
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/dodgy-lib-documents-are-deja-vu-all-over-again/
It looks as though Labor are going to turn “every” question into an opportunity to attack the Coalition.
Rainman now being brought up in relation to seasonal forecasts.
That seems to be the emerging view. Yesterday I though Grech was the victim of someone else’s scam, but it’s beginning to look otherwise. I also hear a suggestion that he was involved in Liberal politics at Melbourne Uni when he was a student.
It can’t be. Abbott complaining about “grubby smears.”
nah i is a twitter thing. It’s like cc in emails. and we know about that sort of thing by now
The Rainman was bulleyed with the magician Turnbull from turning a $2m grant into a $10m for his “mate” for rain making.
Cleary running in Brunswick probably makes it unwinable for the ALP (unless they get Libs` preferences) as he would attract voters who would otherwise vote ALP and if eliminated sent most of those vote on preferences to the Greens.
I would think that the Libs would preference him ahead of the Greens so who is eliminated second last is crucial to who is elected (I don`t think that that happens very often in Melbourne electorates). If Cleary is eliminated second last then his preferences would put them around 40% and the Libs` preferences would decide the outcome, if the Libs are eliminated second last then their preferences will flow to Cleary and he would be elected on Green preferences and if the Greens are eliminated second last (unlikely) then their preferences would flow to Cleary and he would be elected on Lib preferences.
BH, i have to look at that video now about Grech’s body language.
Tanner on political donations now,
Finns – it is very, very obvious. I think just before he said ‘yes’ to the email from PM.
Definitely turned his body and looked behind him at somebody as if either apologising for or seeking approval to answer
Another PB scoop!
Tanner now reviving the Political Donations Bill!
Tanner reads newsheadline from before last election “Turnbull takes cash from market vulture”
http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-keeps-pressure-on-turnbull-to-resign-20090623-cuge.html
“hang in there” – Joe, what happens if he really did. are you encouraging him to do it?
where is everyone seeing, viewing, listening to this? ABC only shows it between 2-3
Sertse
Skynews and Apac
http://media.smh.com.au/national/breaking-news/live-turnbull-vs-rudd-again-597513.html
#272 – APAC on Pay TV
Watching on A-pac. should be able to get it through the web
apac link
http://www.a-pac.tv/
Try this. You can watch and still blog or read the posts while watching on small Media player.
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/
And he was a staffer for Joe Hockey 10 years ago.
the age has a link
Grech was acting chief of staff for Joe Hockey, I would assume this would have been a political appointment?
Here we go on alcopops. Go Nicola.
Roxon pities Turnbull for the lack of support by coalition members. Ouch.
It’s not fair. all the muds are flying from right to left in the parliament house.
Here we go.
It appears they are trying to rile Turnbull as much as possible as they know his character. Will he explode and lose all control….the handshake.
Ouch!
Benji – I love it Albo is giving our member heaps on misinformation to locals re schools spending
Yes.
The most telling thing about Grech is that the Libs considered he was one of them.
And Joe Hockey who says he hasn’t had close contact with Grech sends a text telling him
Stuffed that up – last sentence should read
And Joe Hockey who says he hasn’t had close contact with Grech in the past 18 months send him a text message telling him “mate … hang in there”.
He also said to day Grech only worked for him for a couple of weeks so how come he can send such a familiar sounding message.
Abbott is so much better as manager of opposition business than Pyne.
The Liberals have limited resources which they then exploit in an absurd way.
I think this endless focus on Swan is likely to backfire on the Coalition.
Every answer contains a reference to “grubby opportunism” which will have a lingering effect on the Libs and they are no way going to get “any” mileage out of this line of attack.
Don’t pass this on, but, they would have far better served to try and focus “every” question on a Minister and subject, no matter how trivial and which makes it difficult for the Government to return fire and turn the question straight back against them.
Political fools.
291
More indicative of a closer than your average employee for a couple of weeks ten years ago is that he had his current mobile number (unless he got it from a mutual friend but their is no indication of that) because few people in his situation would have the same mobile number they did ten years ago (I would guess).
Rudd now letting rip with an upper-cut. Ouch!
Turnbull can only blame his own big mouth for this one.
It sounds like Hockey made a stupid interjection, hopefully it will be in the Hansard tomorrow.
Another person has died of swine flu in Victoria.
Yes Tomtfab – bit suss really.
Where was Turnbull going with the question to Rudd about whether he was aware of the outcome of an approach to the Ozcar fund by a dealer in Bennelong?
It’s called FUD – Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
296
I believe that, in Hansard, interjections are recorded only as interjections not the what was said.
I understood Grech was a PS officer in Hockey’s office, not a political staffer. If he was the latter we would have heard all about it.
Simple questions that Swan couldnt answer, he is a joke and Jenkins lost control he couldnt get the government Ministers to be relevant to the question…
Swan cant answer simple questions about whether he personally spoke to car dealers other than Mr Grant and whether he had their cases raised in special meetings like Grant did…Grant might not have got anything in the end but the process is really really dodgy IMHO…
#299 just so long as its not going to start all over again – don’t think my heart could take it.
Unless the person who has the call responds to the interjection, then what was said in the interjection is recorded.
It’s over, Glen. Let it go.
Jenkins ensured the ministers remained as relevant to the questions as the standing orders required.
If you want a stricter definition of “relevant” you should’ve told your Liberal representatives to amend the standing orders when you last controlled the House of Representatives.
Psephos
What do you think that Cleary running in Brunswick would do to Labor`s chances there? Do you think the he or the Greens would be Labor`s two candidate preferred opponent?
Psephos
Grech was acting chief of staff to Hockey for a brief period. Is this a PS role?
This could be “ground hog day” all over again.
This is how Turnbull started out leading up to “Ute-gate”, with a short reference question, the build-up to follow!
Seems like he has learned nothing. Notice, no one else seems to be in on the strategy so far. Maybe they are smart enough to leave it to Malcolm to dig his own hole. He is almost over his head now and if he keeps digging, might soon strike water, not oil. The hole is likely to fill up and drown the silly blighter!
Tom, it depends on whether Labor can find a strong candidate with good local credentials. I understand that under the factional peace deal in Victoria, Brunswick is allocated to the SL, so I’m not optimistic about that.
Maybe he has another email ?
Some useless info.
http://www.directory.gov.au/department/subreport575.rtf
Rudd seems very sure re this Bennelong car dealer. It seems Turnbull can’t leave well enough alone.
Chief of Staff is a political appointment, Acting Chief of Staff will be the most senior/ best equipped person be they political appointment or public service secondment.
To answer own question I do remember now that there was a bit of argy-bargy concerning Maxine McKew referring the dealer on to the PMs office.
Turnbull seems to think Rudd contacted this car dealer to see how it was all going or Rudd got in contact with someone or a department to find out about it.
If more journalists feature this in a similar way, then Turnbull’s attack on Swan will soon be commonly accepted as just a grubby smear campaign be him and Hockey.
The crucial point that will eventually stand out is this one!
http://www.smh.com.au/national/ute-affair-backfires-on-shaken-turnbull-20090622-cu07.html?page=-1
Found it:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25588622-5018473,00.html
I may be very wrong on this.
I challenge any pollbludger to come up with an excuse for Swan not answering how many car dealers he phoned up, had mentioned in meetings and was updated on the progress of their claim…if you cant do this i dont see how you can defend Swan.
Anoither day or two of negative press and media coverage will make it difficult for Turnbull to hang on.
The troops will desert him in a steady stream. The ones in marginal electorates must be starting to be concerned.
If Things carry on as they have, then we may see a revision of a “marginal electorate” come the next election which, if it keeps looking dire for the Libs, could be not all that far away.
Especially a DD which will tick quite a number of boxes for Labor.
A view on Brunswick: the Labor Green contest seems to ebb and flow for reasons not related to the overall Liberal/Labor battle. Greens went backward in their target seats in 2006 except in Brunswick. Cleary’s appeal is towards Anglo blue-collar voters and the workerist end of the middle-class left. Not many of the former in Brunswick (more of them in Pascoe Vale), the Greens have made up ground in the later group and I doubt Cleary would add much to their appeal against the right ie. left sort of Labor candidate.
No, that would be a political staffer’s job, although a public servant could be seconded to it for up to three months and then return to the PS. I’m advised that this is quite a common arrangement, and doesn’t imply anything about the public servant’s politics.
I’m advised that, for example, Snowdon’s chief of staff is a public servant, not a political staffer, because he wanted someone with appropriate expertise. They would not be expected to handle party-political issues.
321 – So Hockey saying in parliament that Swan had answered that question Glen, means nothing?
Fixed for you.
There is nothing at all wrong in ringing a car dealer or anybody for that matter if a Minister wants to, and nothing wrong with ringing up and asking ‘how did it go’ either, in fact I can say that is common practice across all govts, it is call being a good member and Minister. It matters not if it were one or two or more.
There isn’t the slightest thing wrong with being updated with one or more progress reports. There is no improprietry in these things. Even if a minister or member takes an interest in only a few of the outcomes. This is really splitting hairs. Saying that if the process is not identical with every person or business that there is favourtism or something untoward.
There is nothing to be defended over.
Peferential treatment means trying to get someone a better outcome than another. But as we have seen in the other emails there were other businesses that got better treatment but none got an outcome they were not entitled to.
Because he can’t speak to (politically) dead people?
This really is over Glen. Swan has survived and will continue to do so.
Labor would want Turnbull to stay on now. He is a loose cannon, his reputation is shot, his methods on the nose and he is more likely to do something stupid later as he cannot control himself.
There’s a lot more to come out of Hockey,s phone call to Grech.
My view is that Hockey knows him well and rang him after the Senate estimates to offer congratulations and thanks, and to console him over his obvious discomfort. This was on Friday, when there was no suspicion over Grech.
Then Rudd dropped the bombshell of the AFP involvement.
On Sunday/Monday it became obvious to His Great Obtuseness that the AFP investigation would reveal his telephone answering machine message and after agonising over it all day Monday he decided to out himself over the contact yesterday evening rather than be outed by the AFP.
I think he still believes (or hopes) that this is the only set of his finger prints they’ll find.
But his excuse or reason for the contact is so transparent, feeble and risable, that all he’s done is dug the hole deeper for himself.
Even his cronies in the Parliamentary Liberal Party, some of them up to their elbows in it themselves, are running from him as fast as they can, as exemplified by their lack of support for him in QT.
RIP politically, Joe.
Glen,
I’m on record here as saying I’d be most pleased, for the benefit of the Rudd Government, to see Swan replaced by Tanner or Gillard, but it can’t be proven Swan has always done the right thing anymore than it can be proved that he’s done any wrong or misled Parliament. Anymore than it’s going to be proved that Turnbull has done any wrong in relation those fake-email related questions he won’t answer, such as asked by Kochie on tv this morning (Kochie’s response was “Why not?”). At this point, it’s in danger of turning into a silly game of “gotcha”.
The PM has been invited to drive the ute made famous by the OzCar controversy in an outback rally
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1032356/latest-from-wire/
Musrum, lol!
323
So Cleary would be better to run in Wills and might make it competitive between either him or the Greens and Labor.
Glen 321,
How many voters are there in the average metro electorate? Tens of thousands? How many might at any point in time have a problem with some interaction with a department, say social security? Let’s assume 10 just so we have a number to work on.
So 10 people have a problem. For whatever reason the member speaks on the phone to one of the 10 about their situation for around four minutes and then passes the person over to the department. Is the member now required to make sure the other 9 people are called on the phone so that there’s absolute equal ‘treatment’? How absurd to suggest that’s what should take place just as it’s absurd to suggest that not one of the ten should have received a call to ensure there’s absolute equal treatment. That’s the absurdity that your mob is suggesting.
Swan will not resign and nor should he. Turnbull should do the decent thing and resign as he has been caught out playing dirty politics with a fake email which is an offense under the crimes act.
Turnbull, Hockey and any other member of parliament who has spoken with Grech during that last couple of months are in this up to their collective neck and there’s an excellent chance they’ll be interviewed by the AFP to establish exactly how they received the email and what they did with it so it can be held alongside what Grech has had to say. I reckon has spilt his guts big time in the last 24 hours so there’s more to come.
This is going to get much much worse for your mod than you could possibly imagine.
337
2nd last sentence should read:
I reckon has Grech spilt his guts big time in the last 24 hours so there’s more to come.
I saw an interview with Turnbull, replayed on Agenda, saying that he knew what Grech would say in the Senate Enquiry before he gave his “evidence”.
How was he aware of this?
Yes. They are really starting to sort themselves out into Pigs and Chickens.
MT and Joe are the definitely committed.
#334 I predicted that something like this would happen. All together now…
Rudds gotta ute, Rudds gotta ute
You beaut, you beaut
Rudd’s gotta ute
Speaking of Songs, Here is a song previously posted, but a much newer clip from Top Of The Pops dedicated to Malcolm & Sloppy Joe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPzhiTB46o
Its not a song, its a poem.
Some have been saying that the liberals needed a clean out after the grimy Howard years and now such a clean out might take place on their front bench.
Sloppy Joe Hockey, Malcolm in the middle Turnbull and copy/paste Julie Bishop might all go in one foul swoop. Priceless.
Steve @ 337/8
Speaking of Grech spilling his guts in last 24 hours, has any PB post commented on Piers Column in Tele today?
When you’re in deep, deep trouble like Grech, who’scallyagonnatake? Why, Ackers, of course, who revealed excerpts from a phone chat he had with Grech yesterday.
Grech’s response to accusations that he lied about the PMO email to the Senate C’tee was “I qualified that”. And so he did, which certainly didn’t stop most of Piers’ stablemates and “our” ABC (both Sat. and Sun. National News) reporting Grech recalled the PMO email without bothering to mention that Grech “qualified that”.
On Friday evening, Rudd cited Grech’s “could be totally false-faulty” qualification a half-dozen times in his press conference, so there was no possible excuse to deliberately ignore it after that. While only to be expected from the Murdoch media, I am saddened beyond description by the appalling state into which ABC-TV journalism has fallen.
jjulian1009 @345, I didn’t see the ABCTV coverage, but in their online coverage they mentioned the qualification.
I did, however, see Michael Brissenden’s report last night, and noted his failure to comment on allegations that a former Treasury official was a figure of interest to the AFP. I haven’t read through all of the posts here, but is there any particular development that explains the silence on this today?
Is it just a matter of people not necessarily trusting the original source of this allegation?
You want it in terms the average Australian can relate to.
No he didn’t approve 10 million for a mate when the department recommended 2. He got a a fax, made a phone call, god know what happened because of the fake email. In short he didn’t brake the rules, he just helped out someone he know.
Is that a hanging offense, well as the guy handed over 8 million that was not recommended by the department is now leader of the opposition, I suspect not..
I have been asking myself why a reasonably senior PS might risk his career in the way that Grech has.
I had assumed that it was a bit of an ego trip for him – he became a ‘Somebody’ he became a ‘Player’.
Now I’m wondering if it’s a little murkier than that. Is it possible that he was promised a fast track promotion or two for a political favors rendered from a party not yet in government?
Or he was being blackmailed by somebody over something.
Bongiorno’s report on 10 News concentrating on Turnbull’s admissions that he and Abetz were in contact with Grech and knew what he was going to say before the Senate C’tee. Bongi also speculates Grech’s apparent closeness to the Libs might have been what misled Turnbull to overly rely on Grech’s testimony to support his case against Rudd.
I have belatedly put a post up on the NSW state Newspoll.
Bule,
That’s why I was so stunned by the ABC National News.
I read it late last night, Jjulian, admittedly only to see what possible spin the bloated dope could put on the cesspit the Liberals are duck diving in.
He certainly didn’t disappoint.
I posted a response, but obviously it didn’t please the benighted duffer as he didn’t add it to his blog.
He must have been given heaps by others as well, only half a dozen of his usual managerie of paranoid troglodytes came to his aid, and the other twenty posts blasted him. He stopped adding comments after number 26.
Or was cash handed over?
So there are 3 other possible motives in addition to the boring one of ego.
If Grech was the leak, and has been used in this way then this is poetic justice.
It sounds like they kept pushing him for more and more, until he felt he had to make things up to please his masters.
The good news is that the PS will see what the Liberal Party means when they talk about a “relationship”.
Because it is to the case that Swan mislead the House as saying last year was hotteer than 1998 is to the Climate Change debate.
It’s cherry picking. Swan said he didn’t treat Grant any different. That doesn’t mean he was syaing he did exactly the same thing with every single dealer ever single time.
But please, keep barking.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/crikeyshop/t-shirts/3303165-2-christopher-pyne-because-somewhere-a-unicorn-is-dying
That’s the second time you’ve alluded to blackmail,Psephos.
Anything you’d like to share with us?
Six: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying
Very amusing QT, Labor taking every opportunity to smear Turnball!
Tanner is a legend, Chris Bowen is rather good too!
And when Swan called Hockey a “moron”, I laughed out loud!
Can we get all Dorothy Dixers from the government to include a “… and how this relates to honesty in leadership” clause?
Meanwhile in WA, Colin Barnett is trying to STOP Public Servants from commenting publicly.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606232.htm
I wonder if this decision is based on young Godwin ?
jjulian1009, the simplest explanation I can think of is the repugnance of weasel words such as ‘I am advised by my office…’ or ‘as I understand it…’ or ‘to the best of my recollection…’
All of them perfectly legitimate qualifications, don’t get me wrong, but all convenient ways of avoiding saying ‘I don’t know’, or ‘Don’t hold me to this’.
I thought the blackmail angle could be possible too. You leaked these stories to us before and we have the proof – want your bosses to find out?
Tom.
The AFP are investigating the alleged “Impersonation of a Public Official”.
If, as some media reports suggest, Grech was the person who faked the email. Surely he has not committed an offence until the email was shown to someone else.
So to establish that an offence has occured the AFP must find who the email was passed on to.
Can you be an accessory after the fact to impersonating a public official?
Frank, no it’s about Tim Marney.
Barnett has been burned before by an Under Treasurer and knows how it feels.
Fulvio @353
Good on ya for posting on Piers’ blog. He’s the lowest of the low of Australian media in my book.
From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Dixer
Haven’t heard that one much lately.
If he had already been feeding them inside information that they could use against the Government, then he would be a classic case of someone who, when pushed to go a bit further, would be in a no-win position to refuse as he could easily be exposed.
Yes, but I’m sure recent events involving his federal counterparts may also be a factor
Fulvio, I don’t recall mentioning blackmail before, but I’m sure you’ve heard the saying, “Never ask a man over 40 why he’s single.”
Excellent Musrum.
It’d be fun to run a poll to see which is the most likely. I’d punt on money at this stage.
Oh dear…
So what are we saying happened here?
Did Grech mention Grant in his conversations with Ford Credit because he had received a fraudulent email and was acting in the belief that it was real, or because he was building a case that he had been asked to favour Grant?
Either way, all Grech’s emailing of Treasury etc is explained – he was the one who gave Grant preferential treatment, either in the belief that he was doing the biding of the PM or to create the perception that he was.
But of course blackmail can work both ways. Any politician involved could get taped and trapped as well. Blackmail is a very dangerous game.
Musrum, I could be wrong but I think successive Speakers have waged war on the use of the ‘alternative policies’ Dorothy leading to its dwindling use.
Someone pointed out earlier with the Section of the Act that there is an offence of an Official representing themselves an another Official.
Apparently, not as harsh penalty as for Impersonation of a Public Official.
You don’t need an excuse. Or put alternatively, there is none. The telephone is there to talk to people with. The implication is that because Swan may have talked to Grant and not to other car dealers that talking on the phone is preferential treatment. But it’s not, at least not necessarily.
Swan sent more emails on others’ cases than on Grant’s. If he hadn’t talked to Grant but had sent more emails on Grant’s case than others’ then the Opposition would have gone for email volume as the determining factor of “preferential” treatment. All the Opposition has done is cherry pick the item that Grant received more of than others and gone for that as proving he received “preferential treatment”. It’s a fundamentally pointless task to undertake, but Swan and Rudd have wrongly let the Opposition blow it up into a matter of national importance.
There is no law that says a minister has to time his calls, count his emails, or his words, or the number of times he shakes hands with someone, or whether he smiles when he meets them or whatever, so that thereby we can figure out who got what kind of treatment, good or bad.
Grant got time on the phone and less emails. Someone else got more emails and no time on the phone. So bloody what? It’s splitting hairs to a microscopic degree. You can’t possibly be suggesting that time on the phone is more important than the number of emails sent regarding the case. If you do, however, want to pursue that line of enquiry, how do you quantify that? Are two lines of email equal to 10 seconds of phone time? 20 seconds? 5 seconds? It’s a silly game to get into.
Pollbludgers may think I’ve gone feral on this one but I don’t think Swan has an excuse for not answering the question. Rudd got off on what amounts to a technicality, by proving the email was fake. But in doing so he failed to confront the illegitimacy of the charge. In effect he agreed to the Opposition’s stupid approach was a valid one, avoiding it on the facts, not its fundamental emptiness.
We now have a situation where journalists are waiting in an electrically supercharged atmosphere for the slightest hint that someone might have talked on the phone or sent more emails or kissed a constituent’s baby or whatever, as if this proved anything!. In the meantime, on the other side of politics, Turnbull gives one of his donors and a committee member of his electoral fundraising “Forum” $10 million dollars for a crackpot rainmaking contraption and gets away with it. Why? Because he brazened it out. Swan, on the other hand, every time he evades the question, is wimping it, as well as legitimizing the tactic of hair-splitting. We have the result that journalists are writing acres of newsprint on a call that took two minutes, and are letting Turnbull off the hook over $10 million dollars.
No-one is perfect. No one has faultless judgement. No process is perfect. some people do get slightly more in one area than others do. I ask again… so what?.
The fundamental (but by no means only) metric by which we should judge whether Grant received preferential treatment is whether he benefited by it. He did not. Whatever amazing influence Swan used for his (or Rudd’s) “mate”, it didn’t help. Ford Credit did not buckle under. They can’t have been too desperate to sign up to the OzCar scheme or else they’d have tugged their forelocks, taken the risk, signed Grant up, and written off any losses. In fact it was more the government being desperate to get them to along with it. All this “Ford is Ford and Kia is Kia” business is crap. The point was: the Kia finance facility had dried up. This was the whole point of OzCar: to get companies with some experience in dealer floor stock finance to move out of their brand loyalties and to take on an industry loyalty which kept eveyone afloat and people in jobs.
Evading the question – which Swan is clearly doing – is just avoiding having to say the words, evading the “gotcha” moment that the likes of Milne, Akerman and anyone else in journalism is hanging out for. There wouldn’t be a person in the country with half a brain who doesn’t realise he used the telephone only to Grant. This is not the point. The point is whether Grant received preferential, corrupt treatment, which he did not.
There is no scandal except the fact that Rudd and Swan are making it much harder for everybody else in politics – both sides of politics – to do their democratic duty by responding to the needs of constituents. That’s the real metric that should be looked at.
To set up the sting on Rudd and get Swan at the same time?
Potentially bringing down a Government by participating in a major sting operation with this potential result could make someone “VERY” nervous in a Senate Hearing!
Unlikely in this case as he was a long time foot soldier to the Liberal cause which is now becoming very evident!
I can see elements of all except money in play.
Initially Ideology (One of us) and Disaffection (2007-11-24) with a background of Personal Relations (maybe friendship* with Joe or MT staffers).
The process of leaking info and watching the Media run with it would potentially feed his Self-importance.
Finally, Coercion (even if it is just the pressure to keep feeding the monster) would have also been a factor. This the best explanation I can think of for why he allegedly faked the email.
*Getch’s perception. I imagine these creatures held him in contempt.
Is tonight Newspoll Tuesday?
When will Hockey resign? He is the obvious scapegoat for Turnull. I know nothing it was all Joe’s fault.
382
I saw footage of the Member for North Sydney talking about his text to Grech and it did not look like he held him in contempt to me.
From AAP at Yahoo7:
Former ABC foreign correspondent Peter Lloyd has been freed after spending six months in a Singapore prison for drug offences.
A spokesman for the Singapore Prison System on Tuesday confirmed Lloyd had been released from Changi prison four months before the end of his sentence due to good behaviour.
“We can confirm that Peter is no longer in our custody,” the spokesman told AAP.
Lloyd was jailed in December for 10 months for possessing a small amount of methamphetamine, or ice, and implements used to consume it.”
Does this help explain why ABC TV reporters, unfathomably, can’t seem grasp the basic facts of a story as important as the fake-email smear?
383
Newspolls generally come out on Monday nights and in the Tuesday press.
I find it interesting that MT admits having conversations with Grech over the last few months whereas Hockey hasn’t spoken to him in years (taking the rather doubtful punt that they are both sturdy upholders of the truth).
Grech’s in Treasury. Hockey – I know we all need to be reminded of this occasionally – is the Shadow Treasurer. If it was the other way around (MT having spoken to him once or twice and Hockey talking to him reasonably regularly) it might make sense.
The Leader of the Opposition talking to a Treasury official (because, according to MT, he is an important public servant) and the ST not doesn’t make sense at all.
Someone needs to ask Turnbull what those conversations were about. It’s an absolutely legitimate question in the circumstances.
Newspoll Monday was last week and will be next week.
BB, that may all be true, but you know that in the current media climate Swan cannot say “Yes I gave 10 seconds more attention to Grant than I gave to Buggins or Bloggs,” because then he is dead meat. He has staked out his line and now he has to stick to it, come what may.
Turnbull would say that he was simply reminding Grech of the importance of always telling the truth and not lying to cover up for his boss.
And praise from his handlers. “Good work, Godwin”, Abetz! “Well done Godwin”. Abetz!
“Hang in there Godwin”, Hockey.
etc. etc.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned:
10 News Adelaide just said that Russell Broadbent, Judi Moylan and Petro Gergiou plan to cross the floor tomorrow to support Government amendments to asylum seeker laws that remove the need for asylum seekers to fund their detention.
Also, Barnaby Joyce has stated that he won’t be supporting the alcopops bill in the Senate, but he wouldn’t reveal if he will vote against it, or just abstain.
No one is going to publically show contempt towards someone who may potentially hold their political future in their hands as to what they say under interrogation!
Steve Lewis has form as a liberal party tool.The first time I really noticed him was when,during a rare rose garden press conference featuring Bush and Howard,he stood like the dutiful servant he is, until Howard pointed him out to Bush. Lewis then asked a’dorothy dixer’ style question, that Bush used to tip a bucket all over Latham`s policy to bring the troops back home by Xmas. You can read near the end of this article http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/BushHoward-press-conference/2004/06/04/1086203597415.html
Maybe. But then our ability to detect lies through the TV, has be dulled by years of suspending belief watching cheap imported American soaps*.
*Or the domestic stuff.
Pseph, unfortunately I agree with you (and adverted to the situation in my post). Labor have a fundamental inferiority complex when it comes to being in government. They should rid themselves of it pronto. This week has been good for them. One of the commentators (can’t remember who) said Rudd showed “a new side”. Golly gosh! I thought he was only allowed to have one side!
They should wait until this fizzes out and confront the issue, or else it’s going to give them hell in the future.Change the rules, invent new one… anything except allow this ridiculous status quo to continue. Secretly, Lib backbenchers will thank them too. Labor can’t rely on the Liberal Dirt Unit and News Ltd hacks being so clumsy next time.
Who is on with Red Kerry tonight?
No one from the Opposition if they have any sense.
And in a refreshing development: the Daily Telegraph has completely expunged Ute-Gate from their on line front page. Not a mention anywhere: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/
Be quick.
As this stuff dribbles out it will be similar to a “death by a thousand cuts” Turnbull must think it is worth it!
[And today it was revealed that Mr Grech once worked for the Opposition's treasury spokesman Joe Hockey.
"It was around 10 years ago and he was a departmental officer in my office for a matter of weeks and if there is somehow any suggestion at all that there was a relationship between Godwin Grech and I in this matter, it's absolutely wrong because I haven't had a conversation with him for at least a couple of years," Mr Hockey said.
However, Mr Hockey confirmed he left a message on Mr Grech's phone on Friday after the explosive Senate inquiry.
"Because I saw this very fragile person before a Senate committee, I mean when you know someone like that, what are you going to do? You're going to ring them up and say 'are you okay' and I did that. I left a message on his phone on Saturday and that was it. I did not hear back from him," he said.
Mr Turnbull says he too has had contact with Mr Grech, but has not specified when.
"Mr Grech is very well known and I have certainly spoken to Mr Grech. I know Mr Grech as I know many public servants in Canberra. He is a very highly regarded public servant," Mr Turnbull said.
Mr Rudd says Mr Turnbull has some questions to answer.
"Mr Turnbull to the nation has an obligation to outline all dealings that the Opposition has had with this fake email [and] to outline all dealings that the Opposition has had with this public servant,” he said.]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606342.htm?section=justin
[And in a refreshing development: the Daily Telegraph has completely expunged Ute-Gate from their on line front page. Not a mention anywhere:[
Look further down under National
10 News Adelaide called it “Email-Gate”.
I said yesterday Turnbull needed to go quick as stuff will dribble out bit by bit bringing back the focus to him and the party in a negative way.
They should have dumped him last night.
The be fair to Sky Noooz the called it “the ozcar email affair”.
Now this is a real political scandal:
Berlusconi party scandal deepens
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606395.htm?section=justin
So much for Rudd’s glass jaw that reporters were claiming before the election. He was calm, calculating controlled and was able to think clearly and strategically. Executed the defence and the attack very well. Man is good enough to be a leader.
Good advice. Tomorrow we are introducing the Enabling Act 2009. Because I am fond of all of you, I suggest that if any of you have ever said anything disrespectful about the Leader, you find your passport *now.*
The worst thing for this unsuccessful on Rudd is it has given him some valuable practice, improved him no doubt, made him stronger and given him and the party a strong psychological advantage over the Opposition. Rudd pwns the Liberal Party.
ruawake @ 405
To be even more fair, the Skynooz poll calls it “Ozcar fake-email issue”!
This is starting to look a bit more like what should be reported.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25678949-5005941,00.html
408
The criticism of this government as having an inferiority complex is not that they are not banning opposition but that they are not taking enough hard decisions on policy.
And this. These sort of bits should be noted right across the Media spectrum. I don’t think the Coalition would survive for very long!
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25678949-5005941,00.html
News reports tonight.
Both Ten and Nine reported Lib sources said Turnbull and Abetz were the only two involved or knew etc about the email. Looks like there’s some distancing going on now.
Riley on Seven reported that Grech was shifted out of a better PS position to treasury when Rudd came to office.
So much for my view early last night that Grech was some innocent schmuck caught up in something not of his making.
What is coming out now is that he looks seriously like the long suspected mole in Treasury.It will start to be reported tonight around the place.
Turnbull said on AM that he had had a number of converstions with Grech in the last few months. Why?
Psephos, Grech is a common Maltese surname, so he would certainly be Catholic and probably, as are almost all Maltese, deeply religious.
Being over 40 and single, as you quaintly put it, could be something of a concern.
On the other hand, he’s an intelligent man, so he may not give a rats.
I’d say Turnbull has two aces which he expects/hopes is going to save his arse.
1. He owns the fundraising of the Liberal Party.
2. He’ll take every one down with him in a detailed description of who is up who and who is paying the rent.
Laurie Oakes didn’t hold back on Nine News. He kind of tipped a bucket of smelly stuff on Turnbull.
I think he will do well to hold out under this sort of pressure. I bet the phones are running hot between Liberal Parliamentarians at the moment.
They will be surfing all the news services and many will have sore fingers tomorrow!
Must admit I was with you on that Poss.
The sentence below from the news report that Scorpio at 511 references is an illustration of journalists wasting our time.
‘In another point of order, Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull said Mr Albanese was effectively accusing the opposition of faking the email and should either present evidence or withdraw the accusation;’
Its correct that there was a point of order on this, but as Albanese pointed out at the end of QT, it was due to a misunderstanding of what he said. He was not accusing the Opposition of faking the email. That should have been the end of it.
But because the media have reported Turnbull’s misunderstanding we will now probably get a lot of people believing Albanese did accuse the Opposition of faking the email. This wastes everyone’s time and does not add value to the political debate.
395 billy – geez that is an awful Dorothy Dixer asked by Lewis.
What did he say?
My impression of Grech from the hearing was this is a weak character, easily used, lead and pressured. I should have also thought that maybe also a person who is keen to please. Blackmail did cross my mind, but not the official movie type, just the threatening implication type.
Grech is still a suspect I believe or is there an official admission to something? If so everything is in the ‘alleged’ category if it is to do with criminal activity.
Still like to know who he turned and looked at just duging the Senate Committee just before he made his statement on the email. Any other camera angles?
He’s absolutely perfect. Who would suspect someone like that?
Karen Middleton on SBS also stressed Grech’s prior conversations with Turnbull and replayed last week’s statement by Turnbull that Rudd and Swan had lied to the Parliament and must resign to drive the point home of how badly Turbull’s shot himself in the foot——-make that feet.
Thomas Paine, there were different camera angles throughout the proceedings, so it should be possible to identify the people sitting behind him.
417
Here is an example of how Catholic Malta is.
They (allong with the Philippines) do not allow divorce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce
RT @Colvinius: I understand that Chris Uhlmann has a BIG scoop about Utegate on tonight’s ABC News at 7pm.
Hmm
Doesn’t look good for a lot of people. I get the feeling there are a lot of foot prints in the sand to follow.
johncanb @ 421,
Yeah, missed that. Still it is typical of pretty every media commentator.
They cherry pick everything and leave out anything even slightly damaging that they think they can get away with!
Grog, he mentioned that Turnbull admitted to contacts with Grech and a number of other damaging inferences and just the general understanding that Turnbull is now damaged goods.
I should have taken more notice of the detail, I’m sorry.
It was an act of God -win ?
He obviously didn’t share it with RN. 6pm news didn’t even mention anything about utes, emails, or any exciting goings on in parliament. Missed most of PM so don’t know what was covered there.
I’ve got the popcorn ready. Looking forward to the 7.30 Report also!
Ulhman was pretty desperately the other day saying that Swan still had a case to answer on AM. He sounded a little anxious that people might forget about it. Probably he has been digging as hard as he can.
Godwin is Howards love child?
Grech was head of Industry Policy in PM&C under Howard. PM&C is PS heaven – only DFAT has the same prestige, although Treasury is not to be despised. My PS contact tells me that Grech was *not* shifted out of PM&C because of the change of government. He took sick leave from PM&C and then was given a new position in Treasury – not a demotion really, but he might have seen it that way.
You can bet there will be a bunch of committed Liberal journalists out there desperate to save the day for the Liberal Party trying to find anything to turn it all around.
Only problem with that is, it keeps the current affair going and exposes Turnbull some more.
OK team, we await your reports…
RT @Colvinius: Watch ABC News at 7. Red hot political scoop on the way.
He’s desperate to push Toolman’s Story.
I think what the need to do in the PS is that each department, division and so forth have a subtly different email format where it might look the same but there would be telling differences.
The quicker the Libs give up on Hurnbull and Tockey and start thinking about Plan B, the better for them.
ABC News live here
http://www.abc.net.au/streaming/abc-video2.asx
Hells bells. This is dynamite!
GRECH IS A LIBERAL MOLE.
GODWIN IS THE MOLE -ABC
He has leaked to the Coalition like a sieve.
“Routinely providing information to Malcolm Turnbull”.
Including stuff on FuelWatch.
I hate windows media player.
Turnbull’s TOAST!
and it’s Liberal sources saying it
MAL is dead
Ha ha I was right! The AFP were watching!
Stuff the popcorn, who bought the champers?
Tom.
Yep, and he LOOKS like a mole as well
Glen and Generic Heffalmp – Defend THAT !
Well Grech was kind of Howards love child then.
This is getting more and more curious. Albo said something interesting today at QT. He said never trust email with an attachment.
Hmmmm, i seem to remember yesterday there was a discussion about PDF. Could it be:
1. The fake email was actually a PDF document. created by ??????? and can be created anywhere.
2. This PDF copy was sent by Grech as an attachment to himself to his private home emailid. Maybe with the subject line and content empty.
3. This could explain why it was not found when the Treasury was looking for it, as David Martine was stating in the hearing.
4. The attachment was then saved in a folder and then the carrier email deleted.
5. This PDF doc was found by AFP because they searched the content of every doc or file on Grech’s computer
6. And by looking at the “properties” of the PDF document, they can see all the details of who, where and when it was created. This could also explain that it took no time for the AFP (leaked to ABC) that it was a fake.
Bugger feeling sorry for the bastard. Suffer creep.
OK I will never complain about pdf files freezing my computer again.
Finns, he probably logged on to a hotmail/gmail account from work in an attempt to bypass the gov email system.
Tom.
Use VLC:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
Ulhuman will be as proud as punch of himself.
Did Malcolm Turnbull actively encourage a person whom he described as a ’senior public servant’ to repeatedly breach the Australian Public Service Code of Conduct?
Try Foxit Reader instead of Adobe Reader:
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/
Hi folks, I’ve just registered – I’ve been following this whole shebang since it broke and I haven’t had this much fun since Channel 9 “shredded” Johnny on Election Night! Now can someone tell me why young Malcolm gone with the news that the mole has been found out? Is that damaging? and if so how?
Thank you all for the wonderful couple of days! I do love a liberal implosion..it smells so lovely in the morning
OzPat
Unless Treasury and other Public Service Computers have those sites blocked.
OK I will never complain about my wife again.
(anything Shows?)
Surely there will be a new leader of the opposition in the chair at QT tomorrow.
That ABC dump was massive.
mfarnsworthABC TV news says the Rudd government has believed there is a mole in Treasury for some time and Grech has been under watch.
Frank, possible, but unlikely.
Tom.
VLC 73million downloads!
And it won’t be hockey. I said yeaterday, after seeing his ’speech’ he is in it up to his neck.
Tom.
I was wondering if the AFP were still watching from previous investigations or had some surveillance software in.
Now who scoffed at me in wondering if this was a reverse scam by Rudd?
ABC Online would appear to be quicker at conveying Sky’s breaking news than their own…
Second swind flu death – 35yo Victorian. I guess I have to retract my view that it’s harmless.
We’ll never know all of the facts in this scandal but I still wouldn’t be surprised if a sting was in operation these last 2 months. Turnbull has walked straight into the trap.
Ahh I remember VCL. I have it on my Linux Ubuntu drive.
Would Abbott put his hand up for the leader of the Libs job? he was a cut above the rest of the rabble yesterday and today.
TP 471
Apologies if it looks like I’m stealing your thunder. You are The Man. I’ve simply caught up with your line of thinking.
It would have to be Abbott or Bishop – they have no-one else of any standing.
So Shanahans story in the OO tomorrow – Public Servant victimised by Rudd
Tom.
The calls to Costello will be thick and fast.
In both cases the person has had other health complications as well. So even though these are young people 26 and 35, they obviously had very weak immune systems.
Rudd to announce Government job for Costello?
OK, self noting time:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/06/15/newspoll-53-47-2/all-comments/#comment-291518
Why exactly would Turnbull resign?
Cossie is tangled in his hammock from killing himself laughing…….can someone please go around to his house and see if he is ok
“Psephos
Posted Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 7:15 pm | Permalink
Second swind flu death – 35yo Victorian. I guess I have to retract my view that it’s harmless.”
You need to have an underlying condition. ‘Flu kills every year.
ltep,
You can’t lead the Opposition from prison.
I bet Julia’s dirty. Missing all the fun.
Gotta take your hat off to Rudd. Turnbull vastly underestimated him through his own conceit and self importance.
He didn’t take “ANY” advice from Howard who also did in the early stages but we know he certainly didn’t during 2007 but still paid the ultimate price.
Because he has knowingly been a party to illegal leaking of confidential information by a public servant? and perhaps also a partty to forgery and impersonation of a public official?
After Grech’s testimony on Friday I told my spouse that one day we’ll find out that he’s a Liberal mole. Took only a couple of days!
Itep, I’d need to know more details of what Uhlman is suggesting, but the argument would go something like this:
How can Malcolm Turnbull lead the Australian Government as Prime Minister, responsible for the standards of the Australian Public Service, if he has been involved in a conspiracy which featured actively encouraging a senior public servant to repeatedly breach the Australian Public Service Code of Conduct, the document that all public servants are contractually bound to uphold, and which is the only legal obligation that ensures the political neutrality of our public servants?
ABC story on their site now
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm?section=justin
ltep
I agree, a public servant has been leaking info – what are the opposition supposed to do? Say no thanks?
If there was some kind of incentive for a public servant to leak stuff, that would be a different matter.
I wonder how Fielding is feeling right now? The Senate should keep him in isolation. It’s where he belongs!
Now that we have seen how corrupt the Liberal party can be in opposition just imagine how corrupt they must have been in government. Howard had intimidated the PS into the role of Liberal party operatives. Turnbull and Co just didn’t know how to get by without that major dose of corruption.
Free at Last! Free at Last!
GG, it’s a pity Larry Adler has departed from the prison, otherwise the culprits of FAI & HIH will be together again!!!!!!
And here I was defending Grech the last few days, saying he was a poor innocent.
From Uhlmann’s sotry it sounds like a lot of Libs are quickly distancing themselves from Turnbull…
In the words of one Liberal, “he has been sympathetic to us for some time”
The ABC understands that Mr Grech will also be questioned about other leaks from Treasury.
It looks like the truth is not going to set Grech free.
Spycatcher Revisited, starring M Turnbull and company
Ah, yes, actually.
He probably won’t. Expect a special Party Room Meeting called in the morning and a motion for a spill passing overwhelmingly.
No idea who will end up Leader though. There will be a Melbourne Cup field.
Agreed – ok the public servant may be in trouble, but Turnbull would not be the first oppositon member to get a leak from inside the govt… though he is possibly the first to get a fraudulent lead from his prime source
7.30 Report up now!
Public servants leaking is illegal, and knowingly receiving what they leak is also illegal. Of course it happens, but there’s no excuse if you get caught.
Is there a message that comes up if your comment is in moderation?
Tony “People Skills” Abbott will be the new LOTO.
Kudos time: me at 2.20am Saturday:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2009/06/15/newspoll-53-47-2/all-comments/#comment-291070
Is this “Yes Minister”, “House of Cards” or “Spooks”?
To think, from Truth Overboard onwards, I’ve waited to watch those scumbags self-destruct over a government scandal. I thought Victory 2007 was sweet; but this …
Dig out your rock band manager past & celebrate, PK! Down the bubbly, Bob! Kim, they finally committed suicide! Pity it wasn’t years earlier. Gough & Marg, you’ll need to such a dozen lemons to cure that grin!
Time someone beat the Liberals 1949-Dec72 record!
The PBs, our part in Turnbull’s downfall.
Salute to all.
Yes, well done BB.
# mfarnsworthJoe Hockey’s 2001 Parliamentary speech thanking Grech and others is shown again…even a speech in the House can look suss…1 minute ago from TweetDeck
#
Malcolm Farnsworth
mfarnsworthMichael Brissenden on 7.30 Report describes Grech as “nervous, diminutive” whilst recounting the history of Grech’s time in Canberra…2 minutes ago from TweetDeck
Brissenden has turned on the Bull 180 degrees.
Put it all down to Dr Death
Well considering their master source of goss has been exposed, I’m not surprised.
Ullman said it wouldn’t be illegal for Turnbull to receive the material. It just looks bad politically.
But it would be funny if it turns out Turnbull ASKED Grech for any material he had relating to John Grant, then Grech manufactured the email.
A senior Liberal has fed the story to the ABC. Now who is the senior Liberal with nothing to lose?… Who could be feeding the ABC to undermine Turnbull?…
Have fun bludgers
mfarnsworthBrissenden says legitimate questions to Swan were deflected easily today…Turnbull says Swan has misled the House and must resign…2 minutes ago from TweetDeck
Yes, in your comment. Only viewable by you.
He’s being Rudd to Uhlmann’s Swan.
What type of surveillance from the AFP. I asked the other day if they were allowed to phone tap in this type of thing. Any clues?
The soon to be former member for Higgins ?
Forget all your ridiculous theories people. Here is the real reason;
Ruddy had bet Julia 20 bucks that they’d be facing Costello at the next election. Imagine his horror when Cossie made his announcement at the start of the week!!
20 bucks down the tubes!! ‘F*** that,” says Kevin “this bet isn’t lost yet…” and launches ‘Operation Red Rag’.
Cossie back in play, and the 20 bucks back in play! take that Julia!
Surly Labor won’t be unhappy with the 7.30 report tonight, all Turnbull could do was remind us Rudd has a Ute.
Who thinks Abetz was actually the recipient of the leaks? Aftr all, he undeniability had the text of the fake email on Friday. Turnbull would want to have plausible deniability, and Abetz is a born courtier, who does the King’s dirty work.
Key Loggers for a start.
From memory it has to do with a technicality of being able to prove that you knew the material you had was confidential – or something along those lines. I know it’s what journalists and editors use when Cabinet documents are published.
I think Turnbull would be safe in that he has not published the documents himself, so he probably has no case to answer . Grech on the other hand.
But I wouldn’t go to court on any of my advice, it’s just my recollection of how it works.
All I know is leaking confidential documents is something pretty stupid to do – especially in this case were it is certainly not a whistleblower type scenario.
It might also be part of the explanation why we have heard the term, “produce Treasury’s economic modelling” as the most common response to whatever this Government has proposed over the past eighteen months.
Erica Betz should not be let off lightly. Anyone who watched the hearing on Friday would have seen and heard (listen again to my MP3) his cocky and triumphant body language and tone just before he launched into “reading” that fake email and led Grech in to his, now immortal words “There was a short email from the PMO”.
Also dont forget, he was the first person to make that email public. IF Turnbull goes, he should also go.
chk chk chk ka boom boom.
Thanks Oz. In which case, folks, rather than iterate, the basic argument against Turnbull, as I see it, is at 492.
That’s my bet.
Yeh I mentioned key loggers too.
This is going to fun then.
Of course AFP can request phone taps from a judge if they think someone is breaking the law.
So do you mean you think Abtez got the email directly from Grech, then pretended he got it from “a journalist” (Lewis).
So Grech had flagged to Turnbull that he had an email from PM&C to Treasury, then Turnbull told Abetz to ask if there was any “communication” between PM&C and Treasury, then Grech gave the answer that he had already told Turnbull he was going to give.
WOW! That would be a conspiracy.
If Turnbull or the Liberals weren’t complicit in the manufacturing of the email then it means Grech came up with this masterplan all on his own accord. Anyone believe that?
And Hockey has stood pretty closely by Turnbull as well.
But I do have to say, how much better is Abbott as Manager of Opposition Business than Pyne? Calling a point of order in advance! Now that’s good!
Pierce?
What’s wrong with tony Jones and lateline, it is not breaking any story. ABC News are breaking all the stories.
This from Uhlman:
I thought that when pressure was ‘lifted’, it meant ‘relieved’, but maybe the ABC Guide to Modern English Usage differs…
What is the time frame for a spill? What is the earliest or latest it could happen?
Gee, I am on a role here. I also suggested that it would be good if Erica was subject to a star chamber himself one day. The worm is turning.
The Finnigans:
It’s not too late for Lateline to break Turnbull’s resignation tonight.
English is a funny language, you cut a tree down so you can cut it up into logs.
Hopefully during a Live Interview
Under what circumstances would MT talk to Grech? Does MT visit Treasury? Are they mates that have a chat now and then? Do they go to the same functions? I find it hard to believe that they would innocently come across each other regularly.
Turnbull is now a public embarrassment to the Liberal Party.
Wow, just think about it.
Cozzie was once aligned with Labor.
Nelson ditto.
Turnbull ditto.
Don’t the Libs have anyone who hasn’t at one stage inthe career batted for the other team?
Earliest it would happen, I assume, would be tomorrow morning, if someone wanted to bring one on.
534 ShowsOn, check out the similarity of the wording in the Turnbull question to Rudd on June 4.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/06/22/lead-poisoned-crack-head/comment-page-1/#comment-13612
Bushfire Bill, I’m pretty sure Christopher Pyne hasn’t batted for the other team.
Hubris, lads, hubris.
I’m channeling GP and Glen,who are curled up in a corner in the foetal position, sucking the corner of their security blankets.
A man who is conceited, has extreme self confidence and looks down upon all is often incautious. Never imagining that he could err.
If Malcolm is rolled they would have to stop attacking Wayne Swan. I think he’ll last until that little fire has been extinguished
Laurie Oakes was asked this morning whether the senior Libs were going to tap Turnbull on the shoulder, to which Oakes replied,” you couldn’t get rid of Malcolm Turnbull by tapping him on the shoulder, you’d have to tap him on the head!”
Who’s got the hammer?
It’s as simple as:
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp
Surname: GRECH
Initial: G
State: ACT
Suburb: CALWELL.
Try it. It works.
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/initResSearch.do?subscriberName=grech&suburb=Calwell&street=
Well the accusations on ABC tonight is that Grech frequently leaks information to the Liberals.
Alll the President’s Men updated:
All the Opposition Leaders Men:
Uhlmann: “Grech said…”
Deep Throat: “Don’t concentrate on Grech. You’ll miss the overall…”
Uhlmann: “The meeting that destroyed the Fitzgibbon’s Ministry…”
Deep Throat: “You’re missing the overall.”
Uhlmann: “What overall?”]
…
Turnbull will not go, think about it, what comes after. They have no-one left. Having Peacock and Howard fighting over the leadership was a high point.
That tap on Turnbull’s shoulder Rudd advised could be happening now…..
Bule, no, this would be better:
http://api.ning.com/files/gwyN58nUMpdSZyJ0vq8zQMtwVsNVJ4-lBwYSFrrpCQT0qb2XVW7jABDzAgF-CGlgckE2rqTvOpVrEjK9ixJ0×0oac8YIF*UP/a5sittingbeforeall.jpg
And, according to an apparent “senior Liberal source”, Turnbull knew it.
I wonder how Lewis is feeling now.
He could have been famous for breaking a really hot story. Instead he is only going to be seen as a small bit player in the whole scam or a stupid tool that was used by the Libs for their nefarious purposes.
His bosses won’t be too pleased!
Let me try again:
http://www.logoi.com/notes/img/harakiri.jpg
Yeah – generally pressure is “added” when there is more of it.
I’d never put the two together before but now it makes sense:
mole and deep throat.
Sorry the Finnigans, that link wouldn’t work for me.
561 – scorpio – yep Uhlmann has got the big story now.
I asked a day or two ago if there were any emails from Grech regarding Grant cc’ed back to Charlton. That would have been the natural thing to do – include an update for the initiator of the issue. I think I have my answer now. Grech faked the email and made the representations to Ford Finance but didn’t include Charlton in his report back because Charlton would have asked himself “Why the hell am I being told this? What’s going on?”. So Ford Finance can confirm that Grant was being pushed as a friend of the PM.
Wonder why Grech would have deleted teh email? Second thoughts? Realised it could be shown to be a fake if anyone who knew what they were doing looked seriously at it?
I wonder how Milne is feeling now….
He may go down forever as “Turnbull’s journalist of choice”.
Bule, if that man has any honour left in him, that is what he should do.
http://www.operainfo.org/images/madama/harakiri.jpg
The Finnigans, yes, better.
Another side to this is that it has really sorted journalistic wheat from chaff for the government. Any journo who may have harboured resentment to the government but kept it under check before this let themselves go over the weekend.
Labor memories – some of the longest in the business – will now have a much clearer idea about who gets the good stories. Andrew Bolt’s decision to go with the Deputy Prime Minister now looks to have been quite wise, as is his decision to give her some favourable coverage on IR.
Turnbull has to survive for two more days – then it will be back to electorates for the pollies for the “long winter break”.
The winter of discontent for the Libs.
By the way I did call Gretch deepthroat, Friday, 19 June 2009 7:27 PM in an email to a fellow bludger.
If the AFP have been watching, and they have been for a long while, and if they ran across illegal activity, and they did, they could get phone tapping from the court and video surveillance if needed I gather, plus implement all surveillance techniques necessary. I don’t imagine they simply stopped looking at Grech’s back door. They would have kept following the path(s).
If any of the above happened for a while it could have some very interesting results. One can only hope.
There would be enough members on less than 4% who might beg to differ. They want to save the furniture. The Libs have to not lose any more than say 8 seats. Even that would give the ALP a 92-55 lead – hard to turn back in one election. Their only hope for Govt in 2013 is to not lose too badly in 2010.
Will the Libs give MT till the newspoll, to see if any of this has resonated?
Rudd should recall parliament!!
Well, given the Opposition’s decision to frustrate the CPRS, an extension of the sitting might not be out of the question…
#555 ShowsOn
Yes, but what I’m getting at is how is MT going to elaborate on his admission that he has spoken to Grech recently? He can’t get away with refusing to answer. He might as well plead guilty as do that.
It’s a good reason to do it Bule….
Unlikely though
They’d need the Opposition and Fielding’s agreement to extend the Senate sittings which isn’t going to be forthcoming.
Who did Swan call a moron in parliament?
They wont know then if their phone conversations have been tapped. Wonder how well some will sleep tonight?
Grog
I think news poll will come in at 57 max, and if it does it will be a remarkable outcome, the government has just lifted the retirement age by two years.
Do you really think the liberal party in it’s current form has got the gumption to take a gamble with the next generation. Look at the current fount bench, not one of them is capable. Their future lies in the back bench, it won’t happen.
The Member for Grey, Rowan Ramsey.
Have I missed anything?
We worked out Grech was the mole days ago but did he create the fake email and contact Lewis?
How’s my Grech and Turnbull to go bet going?
Joe Hockey is the moron, not a good look, Joe was relentless in his questioning..
I can see the opposition trying to offload Malcom here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs
Tom.
Oh, we can do better than that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcO4MMzdYE8
I think swan was using you in the plural in reference to the entire opposition when he said you morons. he could have said yous but people would have brought up the sauce bottle
Time to bet on the next leader. I go for the reinstatement of Nelson.
#587
I heard it as the singular.
Diog, as per usual. you are wLATEg
Grog – Ptty it wasn’t someone more deserving. Still, the fact that he is perceived to have Liberal sympathies adds somewhat to the impact.
Further to my argument as to why Turnbull must resign if these allegations are well-founded outlined at 492, I’d point out that the current Minister responsible for the Australian Public Service Commission is Senator Joe Ludwig in his role as Special Minister for State, and that this position falls within the ambit of the responsibilities of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.
That is, the APSC is an agency under the Prime Minister’s Department.
The APS Code of Conduct includes, relevantly:
How can any man who has been allegedly involved in systematic breaches of this code hold himself out to take Ministerial responsibility for these standards?
Pity!
Herr Doktor, didn’t realise there is mean streak in you
I wonder if Turnbull may have screwed up in another way: By putting the email allegation against Rudd he allowed Rudd to put the feds in the direction of Grech. I wonder if this has accelerated the investigation into the moles. If so then Turnbull’s tactics have screwed the Liberals long term by eliminating their sources in treasury.
There are a lot of Godwin Greches in the Australian Public Service. Not many of the SES in my department have served under a Labor Government before now. A lot of ‘em owe their meteoric rises to being good little Libs. A DLO in Hockey’s Office in 1999 would have been an ASO6 or an EL1. Shortly after leaving Hockey’s Office (after a short stint as Chief of Staff apparently) and returning to the APS, Grech, predictably, makes SES. The current SES across the APS is riddled with Lib stooges.
Does the Grech go to jail for this? The AFP obviously have all the evidence they need. That “quietly watching Treasury for a while” bit sounds a bit threatening.
Any possibility of Turnbull being charged with anything?
Hunt, installed after Turnbull’s 2011 concession speech.
And aided getting rid of their last best chance in Turnbull (admittedly extremely slim) into the bargain. QLOLWSOT
(Quadruple-LOL with sugar on top)
And we must admit, PB-ers, Uhlmann must have known or realised this all the time, the double-dealing little skunk.
I can’t wait for insiders this Sunday.
What sort of slant will Cassidy and Kelly put on this one.
Still four more days of developments to go too!
*shakes fist* UHLLLLLLLLLLLLMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!
Grech will top himself, turnbull will resign, after the next poll and probably while on the winter break
I wonder if Abetz is now saying “Well done Godwin!” Another fine mess you’ve got us in to.
If he made the email, then he could be charged with both creating the forged document, and also impersonating another member of the public service.
I believe the maximum penalty for the later is 3 years in jail.
The Libs won’t let Turnbull hang on any longer. They would mostly all be aware that the “Chinese Water Torture” will continue and that the AFP would most definitely have far more information relating to this case than has so far been released with more to come!
And the opposition will then blame Rudd & Swan for hounding him to his grave.
Cant see that Turnbull can survive. There will be more to come you can bet.
Is Turnbull the Arfur Daley of Australian politics dealing in second hand information.
Grech can do a deal if there are bigger fish and crimes involved, but probably not.
Has Abetz ever been on the 7.30 report or Insiders?
[Does the Grech go to jail for this? The AFP obviously have all the evidence they need.] I’m pretty sure that anyone who leaks from inside the APS can go to jail for it. I’m thinking of the guy who leaked the non-classified report about security at airports. It embarrassed the Howard government and even though it was not classified in any way but he was still sentenced to jail time.
Some in the News may be a bit nervous if they have ever paid money for information.
Godwin reminds me of Dobby the house elf. In manner as well as looks. But looks like their stories will end differently.
http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/hp2cs_331Dobby.jpg
Is this connection with Grech what Tim Dunlop was referring to last night on his twitter where he wrote that there was more to come, and it would be bad for Turnbull?
Under surveillance for two months minimum. This could be quite bad for a number of people. If there have been promised recorded or taped or witnessed in exchange for anything it wont be very good. That is is the real danger for anybody involved in this.
And of course their record be evidence that some people KNEW that certain stuff was fake.
Newspoll surveys Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday don’t they. If so there is Wed, Thurs, Friday for further developments and heaps of publicity now. No one will want to be left out on feeding on the carcase.
My tip *** 68-ALP, 32-LNP. Any takers.
Please, I don’t think we should get flippant about such things.
I think it was Bernard Keane who said that, and it’s probably what he was talking about.
Great line GG – let’s hope Albo is reading this! (it would sound perfect coming from him)
Don’t know, at the beginning there was a universal smear against Rudd and Swan. News will be hoping that this hurt Rudd’s standing.
Crech has certainly breached the APS Code of Conduct and he can kiss the APS goodbye. Even though he’s a creepy Lib stooge who’s brought this upon himself, I hope he’s got some support, ‘cos he’s definitely a suicide risk. Someone has to convince him that there’s life outside the APS, but that he might have to leave the country to find it. Nothing’s worth killing yourself over; you’re a long time dead.
ShowsOn @ 613 Is that the same Dunlop, former news.com.au blogger? I’d really dig reading his lucid commentary again. Do you have a link?
Probably eliminated any other sources of information they may have been getting from other Departments now too.
Could be a few more worried people around. Who in the PS will be game to take any risks now.
This is probably the best thing to happen to improve accountability in the Public Service ever!
you’re right grog I retract that flippant remark
Think it was called Blogocracy?
I looked back at the now famous transcript from Friday.
ruawake tipped us off about Grech and said this would all backfire on Turnbull. Another PB first.
I still want to know if Grech was set up or if he faked the email. And who rang Lewis?
Is anyone else looking forward to seeing Malcolm on the witness stand at Grech’s trial?
Diogs,
In the dock don’t you think?
Grech could be the Arnold Horshack to Turnbull’s Vinnie Barberino out of Welcome Back Kotter.
If they find anyone guilty of inducing Grech to break the law, i.e. hand over confidential information, they are gorrnn.
Tom
It will take the libs ages to recover from this. Even a change of leader will have them blowing in the wind for months to come. Every coment will be brushed off on any issue for lack of credibility.
Barnaby Joyce for opposition leader I think. A new direction!!!- all hail tomatoe head thane of the senate, all hail tomatoe head thane of the opposition, all hale tomatoe that shall be king.
All those long conversations Turnbull had with Grech in recent months begging him not to pass over confidential information. Everyone will accept that at face value, won’t they.
GG
As someone said, this crisis now has a life of it’s own and has become a rogue elephant. It could squash a few people in a very messy, messy way.
I have not been so excited since the ALP victory in 07!
Diogs,
Is there any other way to be squashed?
Politicians Respond to Emailgate.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200906/r389063_1817554.asx
Check out Bob Brown and the Libs.
Lots of denials from The fibs.
More looking forward to seeing Grech in the witness stand at Turnbulls trial.
Tom.
Can’t see it. Nothing else has worked so far. They should have given up during 2007 because every time they push something to damage him, Rudd just comes up smelling of rose water and the polls just carry on as normal.
There is a new normal in PPM polling which they haven’t come to grips with yet.
They, (Libs & Media) would have been better off trying to starve him of oxygen and just let the polls slowly return to a realistic level.
the truth is, they were under the illusion that they could knock him off in one term which was stupid and vain because Rudd started this term at such a high water mark, that it was and is, nothing but fanciful dreaming and a nonsense.
“While mystery still surrounds the fake email, which police suspect was fabricated by Treasury official Godwin Grech, Mr Turnbull admitted he had spoken to the public servant in the past two months”.
This takes Turnbull’s involvement back to April not February when the fake emails were allegedly created. Interesting he is making such a specific point.
Also, Lindwall left Turnbull’s employ in April I believe.
More dots to join………
Do we have one of those “impeachment” equivalents in Oz or does Turnbull just go to Federal Court?
You would think he’d remember better than he did if an email from the PMO was sent to his home email (or so he thought). That’s very odd indeed (notwithstanding Swan’s explanation for getting email at home). OTOH, if you wanted to fake an email, perhaps to forward it to someone else later, you’d want to send it somewhere first (say, from your office to your home??) to mimic a genuine email you’d received, though you’d have to be naive about email technology not to know that it would easily be identified as a fake.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25668005-5001030,00.html
Errr. Yeah, right Steve. Whatever you say.
Can anyone remember any leaks from Treasury during the last few years of the Howard era?
just asking, just in case
This is Dunlop’s twitter:
http://twitter.com/timdunlop
The original comment I attributed to him was made by Bernie Keane:
http://twitter.com/BernardKeane
I seriously doubt Turnbull has committed a crime simply by receiving leaks.
He could only be seen to have committed a crime if he told someone to make the email.
Of course it just looks really bad for Turnbull politically that he was constantly being fed leaks by someone in treasury. Most people won’t realise that actually isn’t illegal.
What if Grech claims that Turnbull asked him to fake the email and be seen to give preferential treatment to Grant? Whether it is true or not, how does Turnbull disprove it?
Yeah, Godwin. Remember to always tell the truth. Now, don’t forget that will you. It’s very important that you do. You have a very good career and you wouldn’t want to do anything to prejudice that would you?
Yeah, ok Malcolm. You’re such a good friend and so truthful too!
As I said earlier, if it can be proved that grech was induced by somebody to break the law it is then conspiracy to commit. Jaundiced View, where are you when we need you…
Tom.
I am seeking advice on this very interesting point. No doubt others are too.
The other point to make is that Grech might now seek to do deal whereby he names all the people he leaked to, in exchange for not being sent to Norfolk Island in chains.
Grech the double agent? If this materialises “it’s time” he will be the cleverest man in Australia
I suspect Grech will sing like a canary.
Psephos, it was a great tactic used by Tony Fitzgerald to get to the top level corruption in the National Party and Queensland police force. Offer “Indemnity against prosecution” provided the witness told the whole truth.
I can’t see Turnbull being stupid enough to give his friendly advice to Charlton last week if he had helped to concoct the fraudulent email. More likely Grech or an accomplice created the email, Grech made it known to Turnbull some time ago (early June) and Turnbull couldn’t help himself at the Ball because he had arranged for Erica to sping the “trap” on Friday.
Good point, but if Grech is a Liberal stooge as we now suspect, do you think he will voluntarily reveal details that will harm Turnbull?
The worst thing for Turnbull would be if Grech is charged, which leaves a cloud over Turnbull concerning his involvement.
If Turnbull contacted Grech and said “Do you have anything related to John Grant motors”, then it wouldn’t even matter if that doesn’t constitute an illegal act on Turnbull’s part, it would be be a political death sentence.
Turnbull’s credibility was critically damaged yesterday, but if it turns out he asked Grech to leak him material, then it would be a fatal injury that surely the Liberals would deal with by sacking him.
So the libs think of themselves as the masters of the universe and born to rule. Ha!
What a comedown onto top of being caught with the racist pamplets in lindsay on the eve of the 2007 election, work choices and the SA fraud.
This was another attempt to steal government by any means.
Not the same as the dismissal in 1975, for which I will NEVER forgive them, but
aimed at the same outcome.
Well they had virtually destroyed brand name, liberal. And all by their own hands.
May they rot in hell.
Isa there still a penal colony on Norfolk Island? Though those Commonwealth games participants looked a bit dodgy
If Turnbull helped make the email then that’s a no brainer, he he has just committed a criminal act.
But what I am wondering is what if he called his ‘Treasury contact’ Grech and said “have you got any documents related to John Grant motors?
That may not be against the law, but it would be a political death sentence, cos he would’ve encouraged a public servant to leak for his own political advantage.
Adam
It’s harder to get into Norfolk Island (chains or not) than into max security prison these days.
If the alternative is the guillotine, I think he might.
Is there ANYONE who thinks Turnbull will survive this
Anyone know the lineup on lateline tonight yet ?
Glen and Generic Heffalump
Oh and speaking of Lib Bludgers where’s Patrick Fogarty and Joel the Tr*ll ? THey haven’t been sighted since Friday.
#659, yes, Turnbull to commit harakiri – LIVE – on national TV and then DEAD
Probably helping the AFP with their enquires frank
Depends on the time frame Diogenes.
He’ll survive until the end of this week and I figure until the election.
Unless Costello re enters, there’s no obvious successor.
Frank
Oz was head of the lynch, rudd and turnbull mob for over the 3000 plus total comments in the last thread
Wasn’t Crech’s meeting (as patsy or perpetrator) with Ford Credit in February 09? When did Turnbull start asking questions in Parliament about Grant’s donation of the ute?
Either way the libs will be bending over backwards to pass everything in the senate in order to avoid a DD
He’ll probably be relieved to get it all off his chest. Maybe he did it all for love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXW480B4ENs
No I think Glen and GP have cut the Bull loose. Glen is a Hockey man now I think.
I think you’ve ignored my posts and substituted them with a fantasy of your own.
Fantasising about me is not a healthy sign, Dave. Tut tut.
And for those who missed it, or want to relive it his is THAT Story from tonight’s ABC News
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200906/r389193_1818241.asx
No.
It is becoming obvious that the next Liberal PM is not even in parliament yet. The real question is whether the next Liberal PM is even eligible to vote yet?
For my mind…No.
Apologies if this has already been posted …
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/article.aspx?id=345205
one other frontbencher?
I don’t see him resigning anytime soon…
If Labor is smart, they won’t have anyone available for Lateline tonight. They should insist that the spot goes to the Libs.
Trouble is, it could be difficult to find anyone amongst them to try and whitewash this.
If Turnbull & Hockey have any brains at all, they will certainly lay low. Then again!
Abetz is the front bencher.
You’d think there would be a few Libs feeling very uneasy about this now. If I were a journo I’d be out there pushing them for comment. Surely they won’t all stand behind Turnbull much longer.
Turnbull will come to regret that flippant answer to the question in the corridor.
And I think Uhlmann is wrong to say “there’s nothjing wrong with receiving the information.”
The dark side is turning against Turnbull too!
“As the revelations about Mr Grech continue at such a rapid pace, and coming from inside the Coalition no less, Turnbull’s judgement, and position, is looking more and more fragile”.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/is-turnbull-about-to-go-off-line/
He was always such a horrible turd. It will be nice to see him fry.
Just check out a selection of what you wrote. Its all there.
ShowsOn,
Muchas Gracias for the Dunlop link.
Well we already know some have been briefing against Turnbull.
Yes, but that doesn’t appear to gel with the Nazi-like interrogation Abetz was using on Grech in the Senate inquiry.
Ironically, MT is probably in the clear legally for receiving the “leaked email” from GG as it was faked.
A bit like getting sprung by the coppers for possession only to discover the dealer has sold you dried chervil instead of pot.
MT’s career: Spy-catcher to Mole-hugger.
Guy Rundle has gone through the options. Turnbull stays cause there is no one else.
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/06/23/malcolm-turnbull-is-the-coalitions-mark-latham/#more-8583
That one is self evident.
My money is on Hockey for sure.
Too many links already.
I’m very aware of what I wrote. Probably more so than you (if you can believe it!).
But this blog is certainly not about me or whatever problems you have with me.
Hockey said today he hadn’t spoken to Grech since the election apart from his “cheerio” text on Saturday. If this is not true, then he is finished.
Erica should remember that anything he says may be taken down and used in evidence against him in a court of law.
Unless Abetz knew the email existed, but not that it was (detectably?) false. He thought he was hammering the alp committee members for trying to silence Grech.
Norfolk island may be out, but there is the pacific solution!
Full wrap-up from tonight’s ABC Reporting including TV News video, here.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm
Sorry, I mistakenly thought Erica was fronting Lateline tonight. Perhaps he is attending another interview.
Gitmo has capacity…
A couple of clips from QT:
Treasurer Swan “answers” questions in Parliament over Utegate affair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5MknIeo8Nk
Anthony Albanese provokes angry response from Opposition over Utegate affair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9DiVJrf88
If anyone is in real trouble I think will boil down to if any sort of remuneration was in anyway promised or given in exchange for information. Cut and dry then, criminal offence.
If the AFP have been watching for some time then I gather they would have that sort of evidence if it existed. They would no doubt at least have a list of the number of time certain politicians and their staffers contacted him at home, work, email and mobile phone.
Maybe this could be part of the conditions of accepting some of the Prisoners from Gitmo.
I think Oz played a useful role in making the Labor triumphalists (like me) justify our positions.
But not for receiving genuine leaked Treasury info, such as the Fuelwatch stuff.
Not if he was in a bit deeper. He would be looking at “Conspiracy to commit a Crime”.
Jail time!
A prisoner exchange, hay.
TP, not just remuneration. How about favour and promotion under the next coalition government?
Favours are remuneration… I mean by that any benefit or promise of.
Maybe one at AFP Headquarters!
I would have thought whoever leaked (ie you know who) is in deep, ineradicable sh1t. Testifying against others (and doing a deal) may well reduce the problem, but the Calwell one’s career is surely completely finished.
As for Turnbull? Well he is stuffed (barring a truly bizarre turn of events), as some here predicted over the weekend, but I was slow to realise. The Libs will have to get rid of him.
I wonder who knew, when, that the AFP was tracking all this.
It will be enough to say that X politician called and emailed etc Grech 25 times over the past 2 months and another…etc. It would be enough to finish them politically.
Turnbull has enough money to buy out AFP
For gretch – a more senior role in PS ?? Accerated promotion ?
I don’t think a leaker has to be getting paid for leaking to be committing a crime.
Tracy Ullman does a hilarious take on Arianna Huffington in this show on ABC.
Might be why the Christmas Island Detention Centre Funding issue was brought up in Parliament today! lol
“Turnbull caught in OzCar spotlight” (By political editor Chris Uhlmann – exclusive )
“Several Liberals have told the ABC they believe Mr Grech has been supplying information to Mr Turnbull, and one says he knows it to be the case. However, the nature of that information is not known.” http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm
Rats in the ranks! Who ratted out Malcolm?
A conspiracy is one of the most difficult things to prove, I believe.
And no doubt Grech’s email records are being checked to see which Pollies he contacted, and they will check phone records both mobile and landline.
Nah, the leaker’s gone, there was speculation and what laws Turnbull or any of the Libs may had broken if they encouraged the leaker to leak.
Any rat smart enough to know the ship is sinking…
Tony Abbott.
I don’t know why people have it in for Swan. Yes Tanner is the better communicator, better than Rudd but Swan has been doing a darn fine job. His body language now is great.
Apparently, Rudd offerred to take all the meanest and unreconstructured terrorists for Abetz, Turnbull and Grech but Obama said, “No way”.
I can’t see why some (not all) Laborites have a problem with Oz. Oz says what he thinks, which is supposed to be what a blog is for. Back on the weekend the motivation of GG to lie about this was a key unsolved mystery. It was reasonable for Oz and others to raise it as such.
Worse. If Grech turns out to be truly an unbound spirit:
Just chatting to my sister who has been flat out at work for the last week and so hasn’t seen any news etc; rang me asking “what’s all this OzCar stuff?”
After I told her she said, it sounds like Turnbull has thought he is in a Grisham novel, and when he’s got the email he skipped straight ahead to the end expecting to see himself as PM, and has thus failed to see that there were a few twists in the plot to come…
The Libs are throwing Grech to the wolves. Do you think he would maintain any loyalty to them in such circumstances?
Wonder if they will do a cartoon of Turnbull as Icarus and Rudd as the Sun.
Don’t know about that, but it was pretty clear from Abbott’s somewhat non-committal effort on last night’s Lateline that (a) he doesn’t fancy Turnbull’s chances of survival and (b) he thinks he personally won’t be touched by this.
Perhaps we could have a Southern Ocean Solution – a new prison on Macquarie or Hird Island? It would seem apropriate; with oen of those nice, caring private security firms to look after them
Mind you, if I was in Abbott’s shoes, I’d be non-committal at the moment as well.
I can see why Rudd kept Keelty on now and didn’t give him the chop.
A grateful Commissioner ensuring a comprehensive investigation is carried out in this matter, as he should, I might add, will make that a very sound investment in a vote of confidence.
Very smart man, that Rudd. Pitty someone forgot to warn the stupid Libs especially Turnbull.
Swan has been great in Parliament today – and yes I know Glen will say he didn’t answer the quesitons, but that’s not the point – he hasn’t looked like he was in trouble – in fact he looked supremely confident – laughing at Turnbull. Anyone who thought his comment to Hockey of “you moron” showed him cracking under pressure, wasn’t actually watching. It was a “you can’t really be that stupid can you?” line.
It was actually the type of reaction Keating would’ve made.
Actually where is PJK??? Thought we would have heard from him once Costello went.
It would be interesting to compare the number of times Turnbull has spoken or communicated with Grech to the number of times Swan spoke to Grant?
dyno,
I expect he’ll be leader. He’s handled himself well in the Parliament this week. Let’s face it, he is a superior performer to Pyne as MOOB. Problem how far away is cranky Tony?
dyno, I have made “two” posts reminding OZ of his posts.
Thats all. Get over it !
Swan’s got away with this. He’s lucky.
Grech does not look the type to me who would enjoy prison life. I think he will rat out whomever he needs to rat out to get off with a dishonourable discharge.
Swan’s got away with what?
scorpio @ 687
Seconded.
BTW: Do you suppose the reason Malcolm knew the utegate info was faxed to Swan at his home address because Grech sat on them until he could send them to Swan’s home address, then “leaked” the info to Turnbull?
If he did, what’s the story behind the Benelong case Turnbull leaked today? More entrapment?
Well he did describe something I wrote on Saturday as
but I took that as a compliment
dyno,
It was always a put up job. Rudd has done nothing wrong legally, politically, or ethically. The whole drama has been fanned by an over enthusiastic media looking for a scalp.
Given that leaking government departmental information (eg Grech to Liberals) is a crime for the leaker, I wonder if Uhlman’s report will eb sufficient evidence for the AFP to question various Liberal politicians on what they knew? They may not be the liable parties, but they woudl still have to answer the questions. There’d be no privelege if the conversations with Grech were outside parliament.
After the fact maybe, but if the AFP have been monitoring this for some time, then they would already have some damming stuff!
I’m not sure Greensborough. I suspect that when Costello returns from the ME there’ll be a posse of Libs at the Airport bearing alms (and perhaps arms as well), prostrating themselves and begging him to take the job. Most people are susceptible to that kind of flattery.
Failing Costello, we could end up with Abbott. He’d be an electoral disaster, but I’m pretty confident he wouldn’t get caught up in this week’s kind of rubbish!
Tosh. The *only* unusual thing Swan did was phone Grant, and he did that because Ripoll asked him to. That was the *only* favour Grant got, because a Labor MP put in touch with Swan (NOT because he knew Rudd). The phone call was of no subtance and got him no favours. Swan is innocent.
Are we talking Treason Musrem ??????
And I suspect he’ll laugh long and loud.
From the wording of ABC news the Feds have been on the job ongoingly since previous leaks.
The Feds are looking good on the investigation – unless something else comes along.
dyno,
The only reason Cossie would take it would be if it looked like Abbott was the next in line.
Well ladies and gents, I’ll make a confident prediction: Turnball will resign by the end of this week, if he’s not arrested by the AFP and charged with knowingly circulating a fake email.
There would be no compulsion on a Lib pollie to answer any AFP questions. However I’m sure such refusal would be leaked to the media.
Now this:
Pathetic.
He wasn’t intimidated when he was leaking to Turnbull…
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25681647-12377,00.html
I had suspicions about Abbott’s leadership ambitions yesterday and they were reaffirmed by his Lateline performance.
“non-committal” is a good way to put it.
Have to say OZ was definitely playing Devil’s Advocate, but honestly so. I think he did a pretty good job of checking the flaws in our argument. He argues well, and asked a lot of salient questions.
dyno @ 733 wrote “Swan’s got away with this. He’s lucky.”
Swann, like Rudd, is looking more & more like the victim of a sting / entrapment. I think you’ll find that’s illegal (Criminal law)
Could be, Grog.
What a pity Julia is out of the country, I’d love to watch her savaging the Libs in parliament.
Have the Libs been out of power for so long they can’t remember how to abuse power?
You pick up the phone and call your Department Head, not your constituent!
“Upside down Miss Jane!” as Mr Squiggle might say.
I did hear in Federal Parliament this afternoon that the Opposition has refused to allow the AFP to examine the Liberal’s computers.
… confirming that Heffernan has the worst judgement about when to keep his trap shut of any politician in Canberra. Another toxic Howard legacy to the Liberal Party.
We have fun though Grog, so it’s alright. =)
Minchin has been unusually quiet. He would be furious at Turnbull. He’s at the top of my leakers list.
steve,
Turnbull said in Parliament the Liberals would fully co-operate with the AFP inquiry. I doubt if he’s got any wiggle room.
dyno – mostly I think that necause nothing has changed form his poitn of view. He would have been welcomed as a saviour of the party all alst year, and even for some of this year. He didn’t want the job. Now the chance of winning the eleciton would be even worse. Why would he take it now?
Especially when you get the feeling instead of the Libs thinking he will lead them to victory, they’d be just hoping he is able to keep the furniture.
Geez Bill, I’m trying to keep my spag bol down!
Now that’s cheek for you. Coming from the moron who tried to stitch up Justice Kirby ona phoney rent-boy charge using faked Comm Car logs, I find Heff’s comment rather staggering.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25681647-12377,00.html
Maybe Heffo hasn’t been keeping up with the breaking news.
I reckon if Abbott was on tonight’s Lateline then TJ would ask him if he still supported Turnbull. That’s how quickly things are moving.
Well there is the old excuse of wanting to spend more time with family.
Regarding libs drafting costello. What was the turn of phrase Keating used when his
first attempt to roll hawke failed.
Something along the line that “the party will have to come to him like christmas beatles, crawling up the corridor with heads bowed to get him back”.
Hmm, I wonder if there has been furious transferring of data which does NOT incriminate them onto new Hard Drives, while the originals are physically destroyed ?
Team Labor. Just watch out for the hubris. The elephant is rogue. There could be more twists.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25681647-5005962,00.html
One suspects the Labor members of this committee would be very eager to get Grech in the witness box again.
The last gasping grasp at a flimsy straw by a drowning man!
I don’t see how Turnbull could even front up tomorrow! I wonder if Parliament will be extended just to drag out the misery?
Oh Heff! I am reminded of a line in a film I can’t remember now where a furious cop type berates those trying to keep him from himself:
‘you want tact, talk to a tactician’.
Heffernan has a hide to accuse others of intimidation.
Another nasty leftover from the Howard era that the Libs need to purge.
Grech won’t be back in the Senate witness box again. He’ll cry off due to ill-health.
Yep, I’ll just say this – and it’s not vindictive, because yesterday I was posting that Grech was innocent. But on Saturday you wrote:
And to be honest at the time I couldn’t think of a reason why Grech would lie.
In fact for most of the weekend I couldn’t work out what the hell Grech had done – nothing made sense. But in hindsight it all does (sort of!)
This story has moved damn fast.
Turnball’s gone, but I’ll think they’ll wait until this dies down a bit, just in case it looks like claiming a potential successor.
I also think Hockey is Grech’s other contact, did anyone notice his demeanour when he was asked why he rang Grech on the weekend? He had a cheeky grin, which is a dead give away for being loose with the truth (in my case anyway).
Who does that leave, Abbott? I hope not, as I would, at the very least, have to consider fulfilling my drunken promise to a cab driver some years ago of leaving the country if Abbott ever became PM.
Highly unlikely I know, but any suggestions for my new homeland should things pan out for the Mad Monk?
Maybe his excuse would be that he has been unexpectedly detained.
Be funny if it turns out that Grech was “threatened and intimidated” by the libs.
Tony Burke did a nice number on Turnball today, forever to be known as “Rainman”.
But if Malcopops doesn’t turn up, there’s always “Sloppy Joe” to stand in as comic relief.
I wonder if Christian Kerr has checked Turnbull’s son’s Facebook account like he did aftrer Costello made his announcement?
Heffernan is the fool we expected him to be. What does he expect to get from this? Public sympathy for them or Grech. Or just give the HOR something else to go over. Lets talk about intimidation….Kirby. Wow these guys never know when they are well off..lol
And that’s what I think! And why I didn’t think Turnbull would get into *too* much trouble – I just thought there *had* to be something to all this, because otherwise what the hell was Grech going!?
Well now we (seem to) know.
TP et al
Everything you say about Heff is true but all it takes is a few Labor guys in Treasury to have verballed Grech and then they end up facing the Senate hearing for intimidating a witness in a hearing. Fortunately, Grech looks so bad that no-one would believe him unless there was a witness.
I wouldn’t worry Nate, I’m a Lib and I’d vote for Abbott, but realistically he’d be Latham squared when it came to gaffes, stuff-ups, etc. He’d lead us to disaster.
Having said, he is at least a professional politician, which is more than you can say for some people …
This morning I was defending Grech to a friend of mine!
I don’t think anyone could answer that question on Saturday. Everyday it appears that more info comes to light and it radically twists the whole story. It was only four days that most people here were tipping a new PM.
The only point I wanted to dispute was that I had “led a lynch mob” calling for Rudd’s resignation.
Also, if we’re going to go dredging up questions raised prior to every new bit of evidence, almost everyone here is going to made to look a bit silly in hindsight. But that was always going to be case as, most of the time, we were speculating.
There is no way that Costello would accept the poison chalice as Leader of the Opposition. He has committed to leaving Parliament.
Who is on Lateline tonight?
I would think that Hefferman is just putting out a straw man diversion here.
Grech is most probably in Police custody now and I can’t imagine the AFP releasing him and potentially compromise the investigation.
I may be wrong though, and sometimes are!
I think Oz you were more after Swan than Rudd…
Grech will be spilling his guts right now. They moved him to a safe house? To stop people interfering with his story? Or just to keep him away from the media?
What does Heffernan expect? ‘ Well yeh, when I was working for Costello the PMs office told I was dead meat if i didn’t leak like a seive’ ‘I felt fairly intimidate as I was doing a few dodgy documents and illegally leak stuff’
Labor guy asks…can you tell me when you leaked, to whom and and how often, have you spoken to anybody in a political party……
Heffernan would mess his pants if Grech did make himself available.
Oz
I was the first to knife Rudd so you can blame me. If you look back at the transcript, it’s very instructive.
Interestingly it is only News Ltd who are reporting the Heffernan story but didn’t report the ABC Scoop.
I wonder if they are still trying to salvage some cred ?
Yes…I remember uttering something about perspective
You doth protest too much. Much too much. Very touchy – somethings hit a nerve.
It is all a matter of record. Not that it matters a hoot. Just electrons on a screen.
Get over it petal.
For those of you who liked Band of Brothers, check out the preview for the HBO series The Pacific which is coming out next year – it’s basically a Pacific war version – Tom Hanks and Spielberg are invovled. Should be bloody good.
A lot of it was filmed in Australia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClnWj11rQFY
Why should I feel sympathy for a man who’s been acting as the Liberal mole in Treasury since November 2007?
With all due respect, the conservatives on this forum are desperately clutching at straws if they think Heffernen will get them out of their mess.
I woudn’t like to go back and read my predictions on things!
I will say I held that Swan had done nothing worng. I still stand by that.
No corruption, or abuse of power.
As Annabel Crabb would say Grant got “diddly-squat”
Member For Gray asking Swannie THAT Question about Bennelong Car Dealer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e739_0h-gKo
Dyno
Whether its to be Abbott or not, I take it you agree Turnbull must go now? Personally I think he is not just a liability, the Libs would look very weak to keep him as their leader. A bad look.
You do all need to keep reminding yourselves that News Ltd is not a news organisation. It is a propaganda organisation. Its purpose is to further the political agenda and the commercial interests of Rupert Murdoch and his family, and no other.
Notwithstanding that I seem to have been wrong (or should that be wRONg) about Turnbull, I would like to point out that I never doubted for a moment that Rudd and Swan would stay.
Even if the faked e-mail had been real, you just don’t lose a PM or a Treasurer over a “grants to mates” affair where no-one actually ever got any money.
Grog – I like the Ken Burns docos. Lotsa good stuff there.
I was getting my car rego checked today and once again tried to cajole my Greek mechanic, George, into giving me the keys to his cliffside, northwest cost villa on Corfu that he knocked back a 3 million euro offer on last month.
I promised to mow the lawns and whitewash the exterior, do the washing up every night and generally look after the place, honest.
“That’s nothing Bill,” he said, “the German b@$tard who wanted to buy it offered to suck my dick, and I still said no.”
Still hoping though.
It is ironic that the Grech would have been working for Dr Peter Shergold, the Secretary of Howard’s PM&C, who constantly told us that he regarded all leaks, even those in the public interest, as democratic sabotage.
In a speech to the National Press Club in 2006, Shergold said that public servants do NOT have a moral responsibility to act on their own judgement of the public interest when they assess the Government has got it wrong. Jail was not good enough for Shergold.
Not only did the ‘loyal, hardworking, well respected’ Grech thumb his nose at all that stuff from the Head of the Public Service, but Howard’s ministers did as well .
I am with Adam on this as well. Multiple episodes of leaking and the fake will mean jail time. There could be some plea bargaining or immunity if he has some hot stuff on being enticed to commit a crime. Or reduced sentence if just spills all the beans on everyone.
Remember that by the end of the senate hearing labor heavy weights were willing to let him answer questions, I suspect that by Friday night they knew they where on a winner.
Soc, in view of the twists and turns of the past few days, not to mention my own dodgy track record, I would prefer to put it as “unless something significant emerges that changes things, Turnbull should go in the next few weeks”.
If I was a Liberal MP I’d probably be waiting for the AFP (and perhaps even the AG enquiry) to finish before stabbing Turnbull.
Hockey’s on. This will be goooooddd.
Agreed – except Band of Bros wasn’t a Burns doco,
I’ve got Burns’s Baseball (for some reason I’m a baseball nut), Civil War and “The War” on DVD. All great viewing.
Joe and turnbull refusing to deny getting leaks from gretch.
Lets see how msm treat this.
Dyno: So you admit you were wrong in calling for Rudd’s head on Friday?
Grech will get off without jail time if he hooks a bigger fish.
Any decent defence lawyer knows that.
Band of Brothers was excellent. The Pacific looks good too.
The Civil War one is great, the Jazz one is terrible.
evan, I’m not sure if I did call for Rudd’s head on Friday, did I?
One thing we should remember is that MT is LOTO *because* of Grech.
MT won a narrow vote because (in part) of a perception that he had the goods to take it up to the Government.
However, the runs he was getting were due to his pet mole (or moles).
Hockey will be twaddling that black is white.
And who is now a member of the WA State Govt Economic Audit Group.
http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/WACabinetMinistersSearch.aspx?ItemId=130793&minister=Buswell&admin=Barnett
If the AFP find out that he is responsible for any leaks then he will just be sacked.
If it turns out he wrote the email then he will be sacked and charged.
I still think Nelson is the lower profile smaller target more publically acceptable alternative to Turnbull at the moment. He comes with that sign ‘mostly harmless’.
And really the Libs if they learn anything should want to lay low for a while with an anonymous leader. Unless he and they haven’t learned and they start bringing in cardboard cut outs again…this time of Malcolm Turnbull.
Anyone think Chris Pearce was linked to Godwin Grech?
Personally I don’t pretend to have known what was going on but I was always suspicious of Grech. His appearance didn’t ring true, nor did his failure to keep a copy of the email and who sent it. Moreover, the allegations against Rudd and Swan made no sense. Why risk a government for a ute? This was never a resignation offence, even if proven true. There was no crime or abuse of power in the first place.
Consider by comparison that under Howard an immigration minister gave a PR Visa to a mafia figure whose family donated money to a Liberal relection fund. It was done against advice from the department and Italian police, yet said Minister kept his job!!! We know now because the mafia figure has sicne been arrested for drug importation into Australia. You don’t get the boot for that, and yet your party then asks for a resignation on the basis that you did some lobbying for a constituent that involved no governmetn funds changing hands??? SNIP: See article 2 of comment moderation guidelines – The Management.
I’m current working my way through, “The West” by Burns. Again very good.
Grech seems to be a liberal stooge. It seems to me he created the email with possible help of others, liberal party people? And he
attempted it seems to make out he recieved it from the P.M and Treasurer.. In the process it may have sucked some Libs into his story such as Turnbull or they were in on it.
To me Turnbull has been telling porkies and to me he is damaged goods long term. He seemed believable on 7.30 Report yesterday by suggesting he did not know a great deal and very little about the email in treasury but now it seems he has links. He has a credibility problem and put simply has been smeared by his smear.
It may have served the Liberals right and Malcolm Turnbull. Again long term he is encapable to lead the opposition.
As i said last night the coalition are in a mess at present, senators and members of the House voting everywhere on issues. Turnbull is leading a party tearing itself apart. They will not be in government for a very long time.
Lastly i have changed my mind on this this issue is now a very serious matter, even though the lay public have very little interest in it.
Hockey is runnnnnnnnnnnnnning away asfastashecan
Hockey may or may not be guilty in Grechgate ©, but he has revealed himself this week to be a complete dunderhead.
I dind;t mind Jazz – but then I’m not a purist. Haven’t seen The West.
I like the one on New York whcih I think was done by his brother,
Joe – out of his depth.
He is the libs future ? Lets hope !
Dyno
Fair enough; there has been too little caution of late. Though I’d say that the Libs can’t let this go on for more than a week or two at most. They should really hope for a speedy conclusion to the AFP investigation now.
His speech from yesterday is even funnier when you re-read it.
Summary: The Prime Minister said no authentic email exists, but the federal police just found a fake one, therefore he should resign!
Let’s not forget that the MSM have continued to prop the Liberals up until this week, there’s been no serious analysis of the lack of policy development coming from the opposition.
I think the lay people have enough interest in it to know Turnbull smell’s a bit off.
IN fact if they only have a little bit of interest, all they will see is “fake email, Turnbull”
Joe is trying the old – Look over there trick. Maxwell Smart would be proud.
It struck me on Monday that the only person on the Liberal front bench that looked like they had any sort of political strategy was Abbot, but it would be a disaster.
If Turnbull goes then Labor has payback for what the Liberals did to the Whitlam Government 33 years ago, the complete destruction of the Liberal party.
Actually the funniest speech yesterday was Abbott defending the integrity of News Ltd Journos. Oh well, at least the Libs look after their mates.
Jazz is too heavily influenced by the Stanley Crouch / Wynton Marsalis axis that proposes that hardly anything after 1965 counts as “real Jazz”. Basically there needs to be another comprehensive documentary made where Burns ends the documentary, yet he still asserts that it is a comprehensive account of the entire genre.
Now that would be cause for a celebration.
Murdoch media become less and less in tough with reality as time goes on. Caught between the dilema of having to bring down Labor but somehow maintain enough credibility that people will still believe them and buy their papers.
What they gonna do if the old rupes doesn’t have the long life like mum.
In the USA all know FoxNews is a rabid right wing snake so not many would be fooled. Well you would hope that.
Surely at this stage any newpoll that doesn’t show a move to Labor would have be treated as a rogue poll.
Is there any way Turnbull’s satisfaction rating or preferred PM could improve after this???
If it does, I think I’ll have to ask for the world to be stopped, so I can get off.
Nothing will ever be payback for what happened in 1975.
Another day, another non-event. No-one has lost their job. Everyone is prim and proper. Good.
OMFG
Hockey is trying to dredge up AWB and who was Rudd’s source
He has well and truly swallowed the kebab
Shows On – agreed, but I have to admit there isn’t a lot of jazz in my collection post Miles Davis.
Joe Hockey looking very rattled.
Has there ever been a bigger waffling imbecile than Sloppy Joe?
Burns also did a series on Mark Twain I believe
Wow now he’s suggesting the email might not even be fake.
ah GP. Nice work.
Joe Hockey seems to think that writing slanderous emails and suggesting they came from the elected government is trivial. It may be trivial but it is a crime Joe.
Joe’s gorn for all money.
Does he think AWB is a good news story for the Libs?
The difference of course is that the Libs were paying kickbacks to a mad dictator to buy weapons to use on his own people while the ALP were doing nothing.
Joes switched to the old, “Time and distance” trick now. He is a regular agent 86.
Splutterin’ an’ ummin’ and ahhh’ like a priest caught with an altar boy…
This is bloody great.
Well someone had to read Downer’s emails.
Joe is rattled.
Well GP I hope you’re right. I hope the Libs keep the headless cadaver of Malcolm Turnbull hanging there on the gibbet till election day, by which time it should be good and ripe.
Joe ’s breaking out in a sweat
“rivulets of fear”
Well the fact some senior Liberals have confirmed that Godwin Grech regularly leaks to the Liberals will end Grech’s career, and most likely Turnbull’s leadership:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2606434.htm
If Turnbull in anyway requested information from Grech, then he is screwed.
What is a torch for accountability?
Oh Joe. Please. Keep going son!!!!!!
There you go again joe – the old “being in opposition is a very difficult job” trick.
sob sob !
Hockey is appalling on Lateline… Such a lightweight. Why can’t he admit he’s discussed Grech with Turnbull and then just say that the conversation(s) were confidential? I just find not answering such an obvious question to be amazing…
They could never run him up against Rudd. Talk about no ticker…
If it’s not MT (and I still think it will be), Abbott is the best of a bad bunch. Shoulda renewed in 2001 and 2004 when they had the chance…
I guess Hockey deserves credit for courage for facing the media tonight.
They were calling for the crucifixion of Rudd because he’d had a meal or two with Brian Burke. Then what about Turnbull (and the “other Liberal frontbencher” with their x number of contacts with Grech?
Abbott might save some of their furniture, but it’d still be a landslide win to Rudd regardless.
rogan – you are dead right about Joe’s political mass. It’s appalling that he is the best that the Libs can put up in a safe seat like North Sydney.
Why didn’t Tone take him up about the misleading statements on the DT mock up of the “email”?
Turnbull said that he had spoken with Grech on a number of occasion in ‘recent’ times. Now if the allegations that Grech regularly leaked to Turnbull is true then those contacts/calls would not have been very wise. Just the public impression would be terrible.
Super arrogance leads to total blindness. Malcolm’s wax wings are melting fast. Watch out below.
Normally the Liberals send Abbott out for these salvage efforts.
Abbott might be busy counting numbers and knifing Malcopops.
Abbott is actually looking reasonable compared to the circus of the last few days. I think he is great, but it’s not the right time for him to be leader. Maybe after a couple of terms of spin and bullshit from Rudd, the electorate will be ready for a straight-talking, people skills Abbott.
Adam – Joe is a log of a front row forward that they pass the ball to from the ruck to take the “big hits”. There are big questions he has to answer.
And maybe after a couple of terms of Rudd, the electorate will be ready for a straight-talking Julia Gillard.
GP are you really sure that the electorate is ready for a mad right wing Catholic corpratist who takes his riding instructions from Pell?
Who was on 7.30 Report?
Um, rugby talk. No comprendo.
The best thing for the ALP is Turnbull unlike most others, has no ability to recogise he is ever wrong, so he’ll never do the right thing and step down. Which means he’ll be there swinging in the breeze up until election day, unless the Liberal Party has the gumption to cut him down.
Does the Liberal Party not realise the type of adverts the ALP will run about Malcolm during the election? You know some “let’s tell you a few things about the leader of the opposition” type ads…
Hockey was woeful tonight. Not sure whether he is culpable, or if he just knows stuff, or if he is just rattled, but that was a poor effort.
Albert Ross @ 866 -It’s the denial of reality that really gets me, as if they might have been talking about ANYTHING ELSE other than the bloody email, it’s provenance and factors relevant to its reliability and trustworthiness for these last four days. Ridiculous.
If he HASN’T discussed all those issues with MT he’s grossly negligent and not qualified to talk about the issue at all, let alone try and salvage it on Lateline.
No 876
Grog, since there is no need to be factual in political advertising, the Coalition can come up with similar “deals for mates” stuff on the PM and Treasurer.
Yeah, his speech yesterday was going through the motions, but at least it wasn’t embarrassingly incoherent like Hockey’s.
A lady given chemotherapy she didn’t need, and playright Edward Albee.
Too bad Enough Rope has finished they could invite Grech or Turnbull.
I think that interview with Hockey was the very worst effort by a politician I have EVER seen, and that includes Mal Meninga’s shocker. Just utterly unbelievable. And he is my frigging local MP no less. If the Libs had any sense whatsoever they would shaft him
Yes, since there is no need to be factual in advertising, GP …
At the risk of being sued, yeah, I guess you are right.
They may as well spend their election money hiring defence lawyers.
Abbott is no leader, and is unelectable. The libs do not have anyone within their ranks who can win them an election at present, admittedly they need a clean out and some new faces. Democracy requires a strong opposition but at present the next election will be a landslide for Labor.
Amazing when we are in times of economic malaise.
Albert Ross @ 873 – Abbott knows with reasonable good grace that some of his views are broadly unelectable, and curbs them appropriately, at least in his rhetoric. It’s a lesson some of the other NSW happy clappy crazy MPs could learn.
marky marky
Turnbull tries to pull a similar stunt 33 years later; that is the rapid destruction of a government; and the result is the destruction of the Liberal; if you don’t see the poetic justice in that your a very hard man to please.
Dario: those of us who live on Sydney’s North Shore, like you and I, are stuck with Liberal MPs forever. Ruddock will never retire from Berowra(my seat), they’ll have to carry him out in a box.
I suppose we can start getting ready for an election on November 15th or 22nd then.
err GP – have you been asleep the last 4 days?
What would be the ads? They would be lies! And the public would know it!
Turnbull has loads of borderline stuff from his past to just bring up.
ALso the Libs hardly have the funds to do a mail drop, let alone a full on ad campaign.
I am advised that “aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring a criminal offence” is itself a criminal offence.
Better him than the religious right.
Advice from PollBludger to Joe Hockey:
“Hey loppy Joe, whatever you do don’t mention AWB.”
Sad isn’t it Turnbull was celebrating being leader without Costello hovering and now he is at the Dinner without any guests.
Or even to pay for students to hand out How To Vote Cards
And if Turnbull goes before then, keep the ads but just replace the words “the leader of the opposition” with “the Liberal Party”.
He’s already in the box, so that shouldn’t be too difficult.
I quite like the idea that the Liberal backbench is going to be turned into a field of failed leaders, former deputy leaders, and hangers on like Wilson Tuckey.
Also, political advertising is still bound by the laws of defamation. Injunctions would fly at any such suggestion.
I think this tawdry affair will give rudd the excuse to clean out a few more “gretch’s”
in the system
Ruddock used to be my MP before I moved. He is 1000 times the MP Hockey is.
marky @894 – a bit like Brogden.
Shh BB, I want them to bring it up in QT tomorrow!
Wilson Tuckey is starting to look like the eleder statesman the party can turn to in its hour of need.
I wonder how Turnbull is enjoying the “clear air” now?
I might have let it slip once but I think I got away with it.
Hopefully there is an adult left in the party that can point out that the party has pretty much destroyed itself with that sort of behavior.
Don’t you mean 1000 times older?
Fred the circumstances are different. Whitlam was a Labor icon, an ideas man and the leader of the party which got the party out of the wilderness. He is charismatic, hhhumorous and a powerful figure with a strong labor heart.
Surely Hockey knows it is dumb at this stage to repeat the fact the Liberals asked Rudd to resign. Why would remind viewers of that mistake?
[I quite like the idea that the Liberal backbench is going to be turned into a field of failed leaders, former deputy leaders, and hangers on like Wilson Tuckey.}
The league of very ordinary gentlemen
Either that or the fear of exposure causes the leaks to dry up now that they know that Rudd won’t be afraid to call in the AFP etc
Hockey is too embarrassing, I turned him off.
Grech is discredited as being a impartial witness, and a Liberal leaker, now it’s proven that it had something to do with the fake email. How can the Turnbull prove that anything Grech said at the senate enquiry was a correct version of avents when it comes to the opposition’s attack on Swan?
And then some
I want a Minister tomorrow to say in his answer that he has to disagree with the PM on one thing – while he agress it is in the best interests of the country for Turnbull to resign, speaking with his ALP hat on, he hopes with all his heart that the Liberal Party keeps Turbull swinging, stinking up the Liberal Party all the way till the next eleciton.
proof reading not my forte
Hockey was all over the place on Lateline. He wouldn’t admit that alleged email from PMO was a fake saying it could be true!!
We’ve been over this before. An election this year can only be for the Reps alone, unless it is a DD, and it is very unlikely that the Libs will give Rudd a DD trigger. A Reps election would not improve Rudd’s position in the Senate, and it would mean that a seperate Senate election would have to be held late next year. A “regular election” (Reps plus half-Senate) can’t be held until next July. Unless the Libs give us a DD, that is the earliest an election can be expected. (But I’ve been wrong about this before!)
Why does Ruddock remind me of Grandpa Munster ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFdemSzaR1o
Hockey “Uhlmann should reveal his sources”.
Does Hockey think it helps the Liberals to remind the audience that Liberals are leaking things to the media?
Then he talks about AWB, does Hockey think reminding viewers of wheat for weapons helps improve the image of Liberals?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25681452-661,00.html
Ruddock is a fake, he likes to show empathy for human rights issues by being a member of Amnesty but in reality he was the man who
hated them and let them rot on a boat and behind wire and on far away islands.
Frank
Cos he is
With the Labor attacks on some news papers one wonders if they have anything on them out of this as well.
After the Liberals successfully delayed the first vote on the CPRS to August, do you think that means the Liberals will then vote for it in November? Copenhagen conference is in the 2nd week of December.
I am assuming that it gets blocked in August.
Assuming the current enquiries end up where we all think they are heading, the Liberal Party won’t keep Turnbull. His roots in the party are shallow and he has mainly been tolerated because people thought (in that foreign country known as “the past”) that he could do a half-decent job at the next election. Very few Liberals like him.
If this all ends in disaster (this seems certain but my motto is now “expect the unexpected”) there’ll be no “APEC week” reprieve for Malcolm.
Phillip Ruddock has been dead since 1987
mfarnsworthWho is Godwin Grech – http://twurl.nl/lywvcz – some interesting and funny observations from a collection of Canberra commenters – RiotAct
Maybe Labor can lend the Lib’s Shorten or Combet for a while as fill in leader while they get their act together.
One of the best things about ABC evening news, 7:30 Report and Lateline is that they keep replaying what Turnbull’s press briefing from last Friday night in which he unequivocally states that Rudd and Swan have lied to Parliament and must resign. No if, ands, or buts about it.
So, how can Hockey be so thick as to try and can get away with egregious revisionist history tonight by spinning that Turnbull was only saying Rudd would have to resign IF he’s lied to Parliament and, therefore, what’s all the fuss about?
To quote Dario, “I think that interview with Hockey was the very worst effort by a politician I have EVER seen, and that includes Mal Meninga’s shocker………”
It’s getting so bad they’ll be calling Honest John back.
marky
Whitlam and Keating changed Australia, Howard will be forgotten.
I suspect one of the reasons Whitlam’s legacy lives on was Frasers feeling that his government wasn’t legitimate. If Fraser had waited Whitlam probable would have still lost, the resulting government would have been more sure of itself, and probable more of the changes unwound. Every cloud has a silver lining. It would seem Whitlam has forgiven Fraser, I think you should to.
Enjoy the poetic Justice if it comes to pass.
If Howard was under this pressure he would come up with some sort of alternative to shift the focus, his shifty political brain would have done something to turn it around but Malcolm i think has no idea what to do.
Turns out it is the sort of clear air you get after you kick the stool out.
Who have they got in the Senate that they can parachute into a Reps seat ?
TP
I think labor will rely on the old maxim
never give a sucker an even break
make sure it’s a multiple fracture
I was a bit surprised Rudd attacked News Ltd as vigorously as he did. Daily Telegraph readers are much more likely to believe what the DT says about Rudd, than they are to believe what Rudd says about the DT. And who cares what the Australian’s three readers think?
A curious fight to pick.
This is a really funny interview. Hockey goes on to talk about Wayne Swan, and all Tony Jones does is talk about Godwin Grech, Malcolm Turnbull and a dodgy email.
Oh, and Hockey says the opposition is going to give full cooperation with the AFP, except they won’t reveal who gave them the email.
Sorry Fred, no labor person should ever forget how a democratically elected government was sacked and how Fraser was the main reason in my mind as to why it was.
The born to rule mob do anything to win power.
I don’t think he attacked News Ltd. in to-to, he attacked certain journalists such as Glenn Milne, Turnbull’s “journalist of choice”.
No 933
Whitlam is only remembered because he was sacked.
Well Adam, the dogs are barking in Chifley that Pricey has been asked to empty his desk drawers and do the right thing a bit sharpish.
Who have they got in a safe Reps seat that they can boot out to make way for Honest?
Psephos 919
Penny Wong on PM when asked if she was getting legal advice on a delay on voting on a Bill constituted a rejection of the Bill, wouldn’t answer. So a reintroduction of CPRS in August, if rejected, maybe a DD trigger.
Shorten is no leader. Prediction he will never win Labor an election.
Frank @ 936 – What, Minchin? Like Abbott, but without the charisma.
>>Whitlam is only remembered because he was sacked.
And of course because he was the third greatest PM after Curtin and Chifley.
Give him credit where credit is due.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Ruddock
The Libs pleading message to Godwin Grech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAcUM7i8vFE
That’s bait if I ever saw any. Nobody reformed as much in as little time as Whitlam. Not to mention ceasing socialism in Labor policy.
How about Fisher Albert.
OK, fourth place for EGW.
In ten years time all Howard be remembered for:
A consumption tax, SlaveChoices, and being voted out of his own seat.
Steve Lewis is still publishing his articles from inside the Tardis.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25681452-661,00.html
Malcom Farr in his Tele column today reckoned the level of loathing between Labor and Coalition is now at it’s highest level since The Dismissal. I’m still mulling it over.
Cuppa
A month or so ago I trotted out one of my hobbyhorses
To Wit:
One J Howard, is not gorn but merely licking his wounds and still pulling the strings
If one were to go all machievellian, one could almost believe that “howie” is still in play
Stranger things have happened
(insert spooky music)
end rant
Albert @ 943 – Heard that, but my info is that it’s not being driven by Bradbury in Lindsay (contra the Crikey rumour). Maybe something to do with the Searle shenanigans one seat further west?
Whitlam never went around selling assets Bob and introducing Financial Deregulation. The death of socialistic policies came later in my view.
Don’t forget presiding over spending cuts then a mining boom!
I;m surprized the media and Libs haven’t blamed Rudd and Swanny for this too
http://livenews.com.au/news/godwin-grechs-home-egged-amid-ozcar-scandal/2009/6/23/210829
My tip for LOTO: Truss.
Reason: It is a conservative tradition to put the leader of the country/national party up front as the senior party transitions into dust.
What, you think everything is either socialism or capitalism? LOL
Whitlam embraced social democratic policies. This is NOT socialism.
And using surpluses to provide tax cuts for the wealthy, whilst our debt skyrocketed.
But according to Rudd Costello has talent, still wondering talented in what, certainly not economics.
Yeah you’re right, and:
Medibank, the Anti-Descrimination Act, the Australia Act, the Order of Australia, cutting tariffs, abolishing university fees, urban planning, recognising China, federal legalisation of abortion, federal legalisation of no fault divorce, legislative repeal of White Australia.
What a bunch of cliquey snob b*stards you PBs are!!
The Whitlam government cut some tariffs, that counts as deregulation to me.
Not to mention that Howard and Costello left Australia in structural deficit.
Whitlam Bob would have done alot more if he did not have a Senate blocking everything and a party made up of ministers who seemed to encapable of adjusting from oopposition to government. The Hawke period had a more harmonious senate and they embraced economic rationalism.
Gus, I’m glad I’m not alone in my speculation. I can’t see how it can be too wide of the mark:
1) Their other leadership options are narrow
2) The Liberal faithful would have him back in a flash
3) Honest himself would be back in a flash, given the chance
Some MSM will be looking around or trying to invent something dramatic in revenge on Rudd. How dare he not let himself get smeared.
Still reckon Rudd should do a tv address. Maybe wait until most of the AFP and AG info is out.
A better DD trigger would be a bill nationalising all of MT’s assets.
Trouble is, I don’t know how you would get the Senate to block it.
Will will you vein lot get over playing the victim?
Marky@968
quite point of history
EGW also had the vietnam war,conscription,oil shock etc
also it had been 23 odd years since labor had last been in Gvt
Ya GP
Medicare.
End of Conscription.
Started the process to wind back tariff protection.
First western country to open diplomatic links with china
Independence for Papua New Guinea.
university education free to its recipients
You may think there is nothing to remember because you are young, and when it comes to politics, uneducated. There is a lot to remember Whitlam for. I got the free education, my marble didn’t get added to a game that resulted in you being shipped to Vietnam if you lost, I support free trade, and I believes our early ties with china have helped us as china has developed.