The latest Morgan face-to-face poll shows Labor’s two-party lead at 56.5-43.5, down from the surprisingly strong 58.5-41.5 recorded a fortnight ago. Labor is down 1.5 per cent on the primary vote to 46 per cent and the Coalition are up 2.5 per cent to 38 per cent, with the Greens down 1.5 per cent to 8.5 per cent. Other news:
• Belinda Neal faces a preselection challenge in Robertson from Deborah O’Neill, education teacher at the University of Newcastle and narrowly unsuccessful state candidate for Gosford in 2003. According to Peter van Onselen of The Australian, O’Neill’s challenge has “the tacit approval of NSW Labor Right powerbrokers”, with Labor sources backing recent reports that party polling shows Neal headed for defeat. John Della Bosca, however, is feared to be ready to “pull out all stops to save his wife”. Members of Labor’s Ourimbah have passed a motion calling on Belinda Neal to bow out, but according to Neal, the branch consists of “approximately six members”. Interestingly, the Prime Minister has been making positive noises about Neal recently. The Daily Telegraph reports police officer Darren Jameson has as expected been preselected as Liberal candidate, despite earlier suggestions former member Jim Lloyd would seek to make a comeback.
• Labor’s member for the north Queensland seat of Dawson, James Bidgood, has announced he will bow out at the next election for health reasons. Bidgood gained the seat from Nationals member De-Anne Kelly in 2007 after picking up a 13.2 per cent swing, and has been chiefly noted since for offering the media pictures he had taken of a protester setting fire to himself in front of Parliament House, and saying the global financial crisis was a result of God “bringing judgement”. Labor’s margin after the election was 3.2 per cent, which the redistribution has reduced to 2.4 per cent.
• David Elliott, chief executive of the Civil Contractors Federation and one-time press secretary to Opposition Leader Peter Collins, has launched a preselection challenge against state upper house member and Right faction powerbroker David Clarke. Imre Salusinszky of The Australian reports Elliott previously had his eyes on the lower house seat of Riverstone. He unsuccessfully contested preselection for the federal seat of Mitchell against Clarke’s arch-rival of the Right, Alex Hawke. Clarke has the backing of Barry O’Farrell, and according to Salusinszky may find unlikely support from the Left. Nonetheless, Andrew Clennell of the Sydney Morning Herald reckons Clarke to be “at serious risk of losing” due to backing for Elliott from Nick Campbell, state party president and an ally of Hawke.
• The Nationals have preselected David Gillespie to run against independent Rob Oakeshott in Lyne.
• The Australian Electoral Commission has announced the timetable for the federal redistribution of Victoria, which Antony Green explains will definitely not be in effect before the next election.
1,180 Comments
William, it’s unclear from your post whether David Elliott is challenging Clarke or Hawke. Also you haven’t mentioned that Bidgood is retiring.
I think the last sentence of the second last story should say that CLARKE is at serious risk of losing, not Hawke.
There’s nothing like a fresh page, illuminated by further polling showing the Liberals will still get the rebuke they so richly deserve.
William, in the second dot point do you mean ” Andrew Clennell of the Sydney Morning Herald reckons Clarke to be “at serious risk of losing”” rather than Hawke?
Any chance of this being a “Troothy” free zone?
I see I am much too slow.
I’m working on it.
and a dammed fine job your doing to ShowsOn
I see Labor MP for Dawson (Dee-Ann Kelly’s old seat) is not standing again.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/02/05/113035_news.html
On Robertson
He’s also a local surf lifesaving official, but is not what one would call bright, charismatic or engaging. Maybe it was the Speedo connection that got him there.
The stoush between “NSW Labor Right powerbrokers” and Della Bosca should be a doozy, as they were one and the same until fairly recently. It won’t be so easy this time to shoe-horn his wife into a desired position, as he has managed to do so often in the past when she has failed.
The other point is, if head office really wants an electable ALP candidate, they should get Deborah O’Neill to change her surname by deed poll to something that doesn’t sound so much like ‘Neal”.
According to Alexa, MyShool.edu.au is the 216th most popular Australian site on the internet: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/myschool.edu.au
ShowsOn
Popular, isn’t it? Instead of getting their misinformation from the bus drivers or the tuckshop ladies about their kids’ school, parents can instead be misled by that site. An example of technology generating rampant ignorance, on the pretence of informing.
Interesting comment by William in the intro:
David Elliott, chief executive of the Civil Contractors Federation and one-time press secretary to Opposition Leader Peter Collins,
Now I know politics is pretty incestuous, and its mates that really count when push comes to shove but drawing a few lines here:
a. Peter Collins recently had a gushy piece in one of the papers/magazines about his post political career and his promotion to a certain rank in the Reserves (I think it was Navy).
b. Elliot, the bloke who Collins employed, and set to beat Clarke, is backed by the Libs party president.
c. Collins has recently joined the staff of a lobby/PR group (need to do research to dig out its name) which is the Liberal equivalent of Hawker Britton. It was reported Collins got the job in expectation the group would become the “go to” firm, if as expected O’Farrell wins the 2011 election.
I believe psephos is Australia’s most popular website containing lots and lots of election statistics.
This result is still a 2% drop over the previous Morgan 58.5/41.5 poll of 21 January. However that poll was itself up 2% over previous Morgan polls. So isn’t this just consistent with the 54/46 to 56/44 range we have been seeing for the past two years?
Are we about to see another incompletely reported Newspoll?
People reckon the NSW ALP is corrupt.
Warren Buffett loses AAA rating. Mnmm. Makes you wonder….
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/buffett-loses-last-aaa-rating-as-s-p-cuts-berkshire-update1-.html
jv,
Why has the move on Neal been left so late, do you reckon? Was it all a factional stalemate?
A new candidate wouldn’t have much time. Although, I suppose all O’Neill would have to do is announce in a loud clear voice “I am not Belinda Neal!” (cue wild cheering). It could be her campaign slogan…
Adam@15:
On the string on google
election statistics australia
The Psephos site is number 22. Antony Green’s site is ahead at number 15.
“According to Alexa, MyShool.edu.au is the 216th most popular Australian site on the internet”
What are the other 215? Porn?
Thanks for those who have pointed out my Clarke-Hawke error, and alerted me to the fact of James Bidgood’s retirement. The post has been amended.
re: Popularity of websites
One website which may, or may not be popular, is the democracy4sale website.
http://www.democracy4sale.org/
A lot of hard work has gone into the site over many years. It provides a one stop shop for community members to search for details of political donations – by search under various criteria.
It is the Greens gift to the community which keeps on giving, providing information which the average person would not have the time, and in some cases nor the ability, to search out for themselves from original sources. This website is meeting a community need, and is something the 2 big parties have never done – one suspects because they wouldn’t want this information so easily available.
On Alexa, your traffic rank is, within Australia,
54,621
PY, when it comes to incestuous, that’s only scratching the surface where Peter Collins is concerned. Remember the antics regarding his wife. Not a mark against him… but it was an ‘icky’ saga.
As a leader though, Collins was a dud. He almost makes O’Farrell look good.
Kersebleptes
I think pre-selections were originally scheduled for later, but have been brought forward in case there is a DD. The time period they are open has also been reduced to 9 days (from 15 I think). The Robertson one opened today – as I assume did the others.
Does this mean he has a lot of friends in the construction business. Jockeying for positions on the NSW Government gravy train. Only to help their poor mates who have suffered so much under the NSW ALP Government.
K@21:
The top 20 sites in Australia are:
1.
Google Australia
google.com.au
2.
Facebook
3.
Google
google.com
4.
YouTube – Broadcast yourself
youtube.com
5.
Yahoo!
yahoo.com
6.
Windows Live
live.com
Search engine from Microsoft.
7.
eBay.com.au
8.
Wikipedia
9.
Ninemsn
10.
Blogger.com
11.
News.com.au
12.
Twitter
13.
Commonwealth Bank of Australia
14.
The Sydney Morning Herald
smh.com.au
15.
Real Estate Australia
realestate.com.au
16.
Myspace
myspace.com
17.
WordPress.com
18.
Australian Bureau of Meteorology
bom.gov.au
19.
Amazon.com
20.
SEEK
I was just kidding Don. Well, half-kidding.
Wow – Fran Kelly has a very fair article about Abbott on The Drum today and she is spot on. I give her some brickbats so she deserves the opposite for this.
Abbott is being portrayed by many as ‘honest’ but she’s confirmed he’s not. Thanks Fran for pointing out what the OO will never say. He’s also making a lot out of Barnyard’s ‘honesty’. Phew – the bloke lies like a pig in mud when he speaks of Labor’s debt and deficit.
They do. And it is corrupt in the sense that decisions are which favour mates, rather than being based on merits. However, there is no proof at a state level (c.f a council level) that it is corrupt in a financial sense.
: Popularity of websites
Porn doesn’t come in the top 20.
However, some porn sites would be up there – I reckon in the top 250.
dave 18
That is interesting. It is probably a fair assessment of the BH borrowings but I still find the whole idea that anyone gets their interest premiums determined by anything that S&P or Moody’s thinks outrageous. If any part of the financial system should have been aboilished after the GFC it should have been their role in credit markets. They were neither competent nor ethical.
More than likely it does if O’Farrell is taking a leaf out of Rudd’s book (imitating Howard) and is intending to imitate the Labor administration.
Thanks, jv.
As we speak!
Their ABC makes a serious allegation via a headline, with NO ATTRIBUTION.
PM ‘misled’ Parliament on workplace laws
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/05/2811606.htm
That’s the sort of heading I’d expect to find on the Liberal Party’s website.
So Berkshire Hathaway is a riskier investment than the subprime mortgages were? LOL
Why haven’t the rating agencies been shut down and their principals banged up for fraud/incompetence/both? And why are our state governments still sucking up to these clowns and paying them for the privilege?
i will take his money , and you can hav his rating
Hey Ron I’ve got under Peter’s skin. He thinks you’re great. I win.
Will the kids get back pay for the half hour a day they were ripped off by their employer for in one case at least 3 years?
While there is plenty of anxiety in financial markets at the moment, but the RBA is more optimistic. Economic sunshine….political rewards for Rudd and co….
ary Bruce
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 4:51 pm | Permalink
“Hey Ron I’ve got under Peter’s skin. He thinks you’re great. I win.”
j
ust back
Your blatant unmitagated sabotage of my once poor integrity reputaton knows no bounds
you hav no shames
cuppa
it now has emma rodgers as the tag
You’re just going to have to try harder Ron. Bob and Peter just hate me. Gee, it doesn’t get more satisfying than that.
Can someone please ban ShowsOn for being an obnoxious twit.
LOL. I’ll just get out the kettle. Now where’s that pot?
Gus, I don’t mean a byline (ie who the story is filed/written by …). I’m referring to who SAID Rudd has ‘misled’ Parliament.
I believe that when a news organisation publishes an allegation in a headline (especially a serious allegation such as this), they should include in the headline just who is MAKING the allegation.
Otherwise it reads like a ‘fact’ with the only qualification being a couple of small punctuation marks.
Just heard Tone on ABC radio news saying a labor deal with the greens, on the ETS, will be disaster for the economy.
Maybe Penny and Christine are getting to him.
Shows
troothy wants you to join his band
“the obnoxious twit”
He forgot that it is a solo act
It shows to me the deal is on, just like you said ru. Your fly seems mighty reliable. It’s the last thing Abbott would want.
Oh TTH, stop with the false indignation. You know that you revel, nay you wallow, in being PollBludger’s resident xenophobe and all your posts are written with the aim of conserving your eminent position.
James Bidgood, member for Dawson, not contesting the next election.
oos.
oops even
It’ll be more of a disaster for Tone I’d imagine.
bob
why oops.
If as stated:
Gary Bruce
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 5:14 pm | Permalink
“You’re just going to have to try harder Ron. Bob and Peter just hate me. Gee, it doesn’t get more satisfying than that.”
not content to malicously sabotage me , you brag as well
am gonna develop a complex ‘soft’ strategy to win back my unpopularity throne ,
with my gentle natured friend GG to advise me
LOL. Oh well, thems the breaks Ron.
#53
bob1234
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 5:23 pm | Permalink
“oos.”
#
54
bob1234
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 5:23 pm | Permalink
“oops even”
seems Troothy and Bob 123456 ar th same person
am fiting back
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Labor and the Greens don’t have a Senate majority, so a “Labor-Greens deal” on the ETS doesn’t make much since this side of the election. It would require a bill acceptable to both the Greens and the Liberal Senate defectors, which seems unlikely unless the Greens are willing to make most of the concessions. And why would they do that? Their whole election strategy is based on differentiating themselves from Labor. Do do a deal with Labor now would be to damage their brand just before the election. The time for Labor-Greens deals is when we have a Labor-Greens Senate.
It does if it is seen as an interim compromise, the Greens can still advocate their position at an election. The common enemy comes into play.
True but now the Greens have to be seen as negotiating positively in order to rescue their brand. The last image that remains in the public’s memory is that of Bob Brown sitting with the global warming denialists, Fielding and Joyce.
61
Bring on the DD.
63
Where is your evidence that that image is in the general public`s memory?
Tom, this is not a porn site.
I am sure that Psephos can resurrect a classic photo of the trio to satisfy you
The owner of the LNP in trouble again
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/palmer-sanctioned-over-corruption-claims-20100205-nibf.html
LOL. Thems are fighting words Ron. I’ll be defending my crown with gusto.
It would at least demonstrate that the government is TRYING to negotiate a new deal, i.e. it would show how unreasonable the Liberals are.
Psephos@61
Maybe they feel that a deal is inevitable, so they might as well hammer it out now, get it rejected twice, take the bill it to the next election and smash the LNP vote.
See more misinfo on CC by Greens today about Labor & Garnaut
Labors ETS IS Garnauts Final Report actual recomend in both its 5%% AND it applying till world deel is made
Labors ETS IS also Garnauts Final recomend re fist year being a carbon tax as a transiton
Kevin rudd will push this thru Senate and see if 2 or more Libs buckle , so he should
Greens (new) polisy is unaceptable to Labor as it has no end date meaning its CC deficited ( and not linked to end with a World deel , unlike Labors ,)
and Abbott will just say Govt is indecisive if they took Greens no fixed end opton having no end date
Rudd will eithr go to an electon with his defeated ETS or maybe offer Greens HIS (and Garnauts) 12 mths transiton mechanism converted to aplying UNTIL a World deel is made
ie its a fixed long term plan showing decisiv PM leadership
Labor would do NO other
but thats acadamic Senate wise without Fieldings vote , but it may mean politcaly both going to electon undivided re an ETS VS Abbotts non ETS majic pudding
that would make CC sense , but not politcaly as how would Greens separate themselves from Labor to voters , unless they left diff between them to th degree of cabon cost calced , and th poluter & consumer compo
The ALP is gearing up for the election. In Eden Monaro the volunteer office staff have been activated and are ringing around to ensure that all volunteers from last election are willing to work on the campaign trail again. They seem particularly keen to work on the newly gained area around Batemans Bay.
“Everyone seems to be forgetting that Labor and the Greens don’t have a Senate majority, so a “Labor-Greens deal” on the ETS doesn’t make much since this side of the election.”
Aren’t 2 Lib senators going to cross the floor.
One Lib senator might and I was hoping SenX might step up, but after hearing him in the Senate during the week it seems unlikely.
They crossed the floor to support the current bill, which was after all approved by the Lib-Nat shadow cabinet. But that bill is not acceptable to the Greens. If Labor agreed to a more radical bill that was acceptable to the Greens (higher targets, less compensation, no purchase of overseas permits), I doubt any Libs would support it.
hear, hear, scarpat!!
I can report that it is currently pouring with rain in Eden-Monaro, for which Mike Kelly of course deserves all the credit.
Labor has a new interactive webpage:
http://www.alp.org.au/
Sure is! And a few other places as well!
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR402.loop.shtml#skip
It does not matter, the ETS will probably not pass in its current form. Do the Greens want to fight a DD fighting Labor and the Libs on CC? I doubt it.
An interim compromise has plenty of space for wriggle room.
says it all
Apologies but having just caught up on posts….from previous thread…
Zoomster said:
Scarpat said:
So, when I posted about fast food workers who will have their Sunday penalty rates cut, and retail staff stand to lose nightly overtime pay, because the Fair Work tribunal bowed to employer complaints about the new awards, I can assume you are all happy with this? I make this assumption because no one responded with any comment whatsoever when I posted about this. Peter Young did make a post about the penalty rate cuts much later and again no one responded.
Gary Bruce
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 5:53 pm | Permalink
am fiting back
“LOL. Thems are fighting words Ron.I’ll be defending my crown with gusto.”
your ‘thems’ word
you know how i just luv those ‘e’ letters , well I just goona hav to use one now
‘themes’ , a theme that Troothy and Bob 123456 reely being one and th same person may be catchy , and that may make bob 123456 quite a happy chappy
Do the fast food workers or retail staff get penalty rates under existing conditions?
“If Labor agreed to a more radical bill that was acceptable to the Greens (higher targets, less compensation, no purchase of overseas permits), I DOUBT any Libs would support it.”
abit generous there Adam
one could lay London to a brick that will not occur
Taking out the 5+ Labor Morgan Bias this leaves us with:
Labor 51.5% to Coalitions 48.5%.
It appears the Coalition is gaining ground.
According to The Idiot:
It appears the Idiots are gaining ground
The current Senate is not going to pass a climate bill of any kind, unless the Greens back down and vote for the current bill, which they won’t.
Pegasus, as Omar Khayyam put it so poetically “the moving finger types and moves on…”
If the next Newspoll is 53 or less I will agree that the Coalition has gained ground.
For those interested in the Men & Work Coptyright fiaso there is a very good Facebook page on the subject and it seems even most of the industry is disgusted at this stupid decision – note that Larrikan Music is now owned by the US Multinational Music Sales Ltd.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/KOOKABURRA-vs-DOWN-UNDER-AN-ABUSE-OF-COPYRIGHT-LAW/334066180920?v=wall
Okay this is ridiculous.
Bob gets banned for saying the word “hack” but ShowsOn is constantly referring to me as an idiot and goes unpunished.
They should put the compensation bill to the Senate individually, and dare the Liberals to block it.
When I worked at a fast food place in 2002 I didn’t get penalty rates for Sunday. Sundays I just got paid the same rate as any other day.
Check your Super portfolio… there are bigger things to worry about than a mediocre 1980′s band.
I’m just engaging perfectly appropriately with your highly sophisticated debating style.
PS:
I never called you an idiot, I called you The Idiot.
Frank
Sorry old chum but you are WronG.
The kookaburra riff has been well known for yonks
TTH, the conclusion to be drawn is that bob1234 was in the wrong and ShowsOn is in the right.
But what I don’t understand is ALL referencing of other songs copyright infringement?
For example, jazz musicians FREQUENTLY reference other songs when they perform solos. Does this mean they should have to pay royalties for all the other songs they reference, because I don’t see references in the CD track listings. E.g. I don’t see a reference in Miles Davis’ album Filles De Kilimanjaro that the song Mademoiselle Mabury references Jimi Hendrix’s song The Wind Cries Mary. Does that mean the Hendrix estate could sue the Miles Davis estate?
I had someone telling me that the second wave of the GFC might be just around the corner.
He said that Iceland and Portugal were likely to default on their debts, Greece may well and Spain is looking dodgy.
He reckons they might fall like dominos and be hard to stop.
Has anyone else heard this?
Shows
the case decision was over 200 pgs long
I think the original non attribution and addition of the flute riff as an addendum to the song was critical to the final decision.
The kookaburra riff is being referred to as a folk song. I wasn’t aware that there was copyright on traditional songs.
So, does anyone know when the, or an, ETS bill is due to go back into the HOR??
If there is anything scheduled then that would set a time limit on ALP/Greens negotiations.
Hey, if the ALP and Greens agree, maybe that would bring Mr X along. then they only need one other. Ok, Greens, X and Fielding probably want a DD as it would give them a better chance in an election, but surely we are then back into a situation where the Libs REALLY REALLY don’t want to face a DD??
Might their machine then give a casual wink and nod to one or two senators who wont be standing at the next election anyway to help pass it, so avoiding a DD? They could have lots of meaningless bluff, bluster and theater in the meantime of course to keep their credibility (Hah!!) with their base, but still avoid a DD in second half of the year.
Unless the Govt then gets its trigger on the medicar rebate changes.
Diogenes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/business/05markets.html?hp
Dio
I reckon Joe is fighting his second wave of KFC
Or alternative conclusion:
Bobs a Greens voter, and ShowsOn’s a Labor voter and therefore gets off scott free
The ETS was reintroduced in the Reps this week.
The ironic thing about the Land Down Under song is that the owner of the Kookaburra song only sued after a 2007 episode of Spics N Specks comparing the two tunes.
How stupid is the owner of the Kookaburra song?
Scarpat@103
Actually Kookaburra itself was based on an old 17th Centuary Folk Song A Ei Di’r ‘Deryn Du
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kookaburra_%28song%29
Did ShowsOn call you an idiot seven times in the space of 180 words, after having done so hundreds or more likely thousand of times in the past? I don’t think so. Also, as a general rule, don’t come whingeing to me about my failure to protect you. It’s a pathetic way for a grown adult to behave.
Be the Chinese version of interesting times if things go pear shaped economically again. It’ll be a bugger for my super as i have that half in cash and half in ‘growth” options. To change we have to put the instruction in by the 17th of the month, and it gets actioned on the 1st of the following month. So, i have a week to decide about running for cover. Still, i’m not looking at taking it out for 15 years and have 19% contributions going in, so its no immediate tragedy for me. May just leave it alone and ride it out. It’ll be a reall bugger for people out of work though.
Politically, a dip into another GFC will i think bury the Libs, if nothing else does first. Govt will be able to adopt a steady as she goes line since there is still considerable stimulus in the pipeline, debt at only 15 – 16% of GDP and a few months of better than expected economic growth in the bank. Unemployment still at 5.??% after having expected and budgeted for more.
It will put some of the Lib ranting in 2009 about withdrawing the latter part of the stimulus package right at the forefront of people minds, just before an election. BBQ conversations would most likely include:
“things are bad, but how screwed would we be if that other lot, with Barnyard running finance were in charge!!”
Interesting you ask that.
I’ll check. I’ll give you the total amount of idiots in his 180 words in the last thread.
So soiled nappies are out?
111
Hear Hear!!!
Sloppy Joe was saying today that the stimulus should be cut back. he is such a dork.
113
Every one of those ‘idiots’ labels will be well deserved in you case.
Scarpat
Thanks for that. I’m surprised there isn’t more commentary on it.
Are France and Germany in a position to bail out Portugal, Greece etc?
I hope you weren’t the person who said they bought Spanish bonds to fund their solar plants.
Yep, the EU will not let them fail. Makes their debt of 100%+ of GDP look sad, er Sloppy ours is 15%.
Total Words: 245
Total Idiots, Idiocracy and Idiotics: 18
I think ShowsOn wins.
imacca@112:
And people who have retired and have their funds in the default, usually shares, option. Most don’t change their mix no matter what happens, they wake up one morning and find their super has lost much of its value.
What happens is that you are taking out units which have lost value, so you have to take out more of them.
The only sensible option for people in that position is cash. It makes very little, but at least it doesn’t go backwards.
I don’t need protection, i’ll just have another beer.
Psephos
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
“The ETS was reintroduced in the Reps this week.”
by Combet , and what a star he will be , Libs already scared of him
ShowsOn
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 6:29 pm | Permalink
The current Senate is not going to pass a climate bill of any kind, unless the Greens back down and vote for the current bill, which they won’t.
“They should put the compensation bill to the Senate individually, and dare the Liberals to block it.”
what a dumb politcal idea that is
ru
That has to set a bad precedent. I suppose that explains why the Euro is tanking.
Reading your postings is punishment enough, TTH.
Does anyone have Stephen Long’s address I would like to send him some razor blades. Why does he talk to financial wallies who have a proven track record of knowing crap about what is going on.
Diogenes @ 101 wrote:
I keep hearing Spain mentioned but can’t figure out why. Yes, like much of the Eurozone they are doing it tough at the moment. However, their debt amounts to around 44% of GDP. Compare that to just under 120% for Greece and Iceland, and nearly 200% for Japan. Last I heard the U.S. was about 70%. Ours is 15% of GDP. Peanuts, except if you’re a Lib/Nat scaremonger.
Spain’s problems haven’t stopped them from spending up big on solar, including solar baseload installations. They, unlike us, see what is coming and are prepared to actually do something about it even in hard times. And building a profitable industry in the process.
Okay, possibly my bad on that narrow front, assuming you’re not cherry-picking. If he keeps it up as relentlessly as Bob did over as long a period of time, it’s possible I’ll tell him to stop.
Spain had the mother of all housing assett bubbles.
There are about 2 million unsold units on the market and no buyers. Lot’s of other dwellings were purchased on the never never and the inhabitants of same are no dwelling in the nether regions of negative equity.
Spain’s real unemployment rate is likely to be about 20%.
Spain’s investment in renewables was mainly before the GFC and, if anything, if probably adding to its short-term problems because of the per unit cost of renewables.
While the financial problems of countries like Greece, Iceland and Spain are transparent the really hairy stuff that could trigger a string of sovereign defaults lies in the former east bloc countries. Western European banks are in that up the hilt and that could really get the rot going.
The euro as a currency is therefore, at the least, under a cloud.
The sovereign debt markets have the wobbles, causing a flight to quality and away from risk assets of all classes. Luckily, the economies affected – Greece, Portugal, Iceland and Spain – are not large. Nevertheless, the prospect of default by these States is putting the whole European financial and fiscal architecture under scrutiny, leading to a loss of confidence in the Euro itself and to anxiety in debt markets generally.
It is far too soon to be forecasting a new recession simply because of this turmoil, but it does demonstrate why coordinated stimulus remains a relevant policy.
Um, shouldn’t that mean our dollar will be increasing, not losing 3 US cents in a day?
morewest
Rudd just needs to put that graph up. The crap from the Libs about debt dies in one graph.
The US debt was projected to reach 100% within three years last year. I don’t know what the story is now.
The AUD is a proxy for the export-oriented growth economies of East Asia and for commodity prices. It is a high-yield/high-risk bet. So when the markets get anxious, the AUD gets belted.
At least most Liberals only pretend to care about debt. Barnaby Joyce doesn’t seem to be pretending, he turns red in the face just thinking about it.
ICAC has cleared everyone over the McGurk claims, saying there was no cogent evidence to support them.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Diog.
Another Fairfax Beat Up – with zero evidence.
“But countries on the fringe, including Greece, Portugal, Spain and Ireland, are having trouble paying for years of debt-driven expansion. Now the bill is coming due”
elephants in room is USA , Dems hav had Congess since 2007 and spent like there is no tomorrow
theory is you go into debt in a recesion , and reduce it a la oz will do when recovery takes off
Yet USA , even when they ar forcasst as being in recovery in future STILL will be increasing there debt at about a trillion a year for th NEXT 10 years
and some of those est s ar rubbery on revenues
NO one in US has will to rein in , sensible
IMHO, the market has been irrationally exuberant and a touch of reality is seeping in. The huge waves of capital raising by just about all large companies devalued existing shareholders. The market anticipated profits. The reality is not quite there. At the same time, the Chinese Government has been saying whoa to further credit, the Government being very worried about assett bubbles. Anyway, the whole has had an impact on commodity prices and with the fall in the commodity prices, so goes the Aussie.
Dio
One of our main trading partners, Japan, is at 100% (it looks like 200% sometimes but that ignores an in and out which brings it back to 100%). Still, 100% is 100%. Their problem was that at the highest company levels, bank levels and government levels the interlocking ownership meant that one down, all down and for a couple of decades this has absolutely paralysed Japan from getting rid of the toxic debt at the heart of their economic pain.
Hello? What about the Bush tax cuts that were funded from debt?
What about the Medicare prescription drug benefit, the BIGGEST entitlement the congress has passed in the last 20 years when the Republicans were in the majority, which again was funded purely from debt?
The two biggest pieces of expenditure other than those are the TARP fund, which was signed into law by a Republican president, and the stimulus package, which only passed the Senate thanks to the votes of 3 Republicans.
Ron
The trillions, the trillions!
No need to be partisan about the US mess. The contribution has been bipartisan. Its the system.
does that mean 3 more noughties added
Oh, and the government spent billions on pork barrel rural infrastructure projects that added nothing to the economy.
Paul Nash,
Any relation of Fiona’s?
ShowsOn
Posted Friday, February 5, 2010 at 7:43 pm | Permalink
elephants in room is USA , Dems hav had Congess since 2007 and spent like there is no tomorrow
“Hello?”
now you dont want me to make a complete dikhead out of you , by quoting Dems deficts & debbt increasing since 2006 do ya
ShowsON
Yep. My favourite story about what is about to happen in China is that of a certain municipality that, in order to meet its stimulus expenditure target, tore down an overhead roadway and rebuilt it.
Could be an urban myth. Maybe, maybe not.
Sounds familiar pre 2007.
there sytem is Congress plus POTUS , seeing you dont know
I well remember Bryan Palmer’s site in 2007 being swamped by insult trade after insult trade from posters. It became tiresome and ridiculous.
It became so ridiculous that one poster threatened to sue another poster for defamation.
Defamation! Can you believe it?
“Your Honour. This person defamed my good name – my good ghost name”
It wasn’t long after that, that Bryan shut down the site.
That left a bunch of us refugees without a home, so we jumped onto on a cyber boat and fled to William’s site, among others.
There’s no need for any of that drivel and William is absolutely correct in banning people for gross stupidity. Otherwise it’ll get completely out of hand.
If you don’t like his way of running things, go start your own bloody site and insult to your heart’s content!
He’s a blog monitor not a playground supervisor.
Dio, twas not me but I do have an interest in what France does
You are too stupid to realise it, but you are using exactly the same argument that the Liberals are using against the Labor government’s spending here.
Of COURSE the debt has increased under Obama, because 1) the $700 billion TARP fund was passed right at the end of the Bush presidency 2) The FIRST thing the Obama administration did was put through an $800 billion stimulus bill.
Are you somehow saying that the U.S. economy didn’t NEED a stimulus bill? If that is the case, how the hell can you support the Rudd government passing a stimulus bill here?
You also seem to be excusing the Bush administration for not even counting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as part of the U.S. budget!
Obama summed this up last week:
[[W]e came in already with a $1.3 trillion deficit before I had passed any law. What is true is we came in with $8 trillion worth of debt over the next decade — had nothing to do with anything that we had done. It had to do with the fact that in 2000 when there was a budget surplus of $200 billion, you had a Republican administration and a Republican Congress, and we had two tax cuts that weren’t paid for.
You had a prescription drug plan — the biggest entitlement plan, by the way, in several decades — that was passed without it being paid for. You had two wars that were done through supplementals. And then you had $3 trillion projected because of the lost revenue of this recession. That’s $8 trillion.
Now, we increased it by a trillion dollars because of the spending that we had to make on the stimulus. I am happy to have any independent fact-checker out there take a look at your presentation versus mine in terms of the accuracy of what I just said.]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-gop-house-issues-conference
“That left a bunch of us REFUGEES without a home, so we jumped onto on a cyber boat ”
Aristotle , Troothy will be complaining about youse coming by boat now
Show off
you hav arrogance to quote me , which clearly says Dems from 2006 ,
then you hav gall to try and switch subject to Obama from 2009
whose explanaton is dodgy anyway seeing Dems hav had Congress SINCE 2006
THEY Dems since 2006 passed th Bills FACT , a fact you seem unkowing about with how USA sytem works
Then of couse you dikhead , you still ignored because you ar scared to , re my factual openin statement that forcast for next TEN years is almost trillions a year , which IS th elephant in room per people who understand econamic
Those forcasts ar not based on your drivel , its based on US budget office , nong
LOL! I note that apart from silly name calling, you can’t name a SINGLE bill.
As usual, you’re wrong and you know it.
ShowsOn v. Ron
I’ll have a $1 on Ron. He will win cos he will b th last man standin.
Briefly@133:
Thanks very much Briefly. Economics is a dark science to me.
That post, and others like it, are one of the many reasons I come here – there are so many people here with arcane skills and knowledge which they just toss off, and mention in passing, as though everybody knows that, but on subjects that to me are like ancient greek, yet are important and illuminating.
cause i hav th facts
Obi losing a bit of gloss?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/indonesia-to-remove-obama-statue-20100205-nii8.html
Don
“Economics is a DARK science to me.”
now you know why I’m so evil ,
as well as naughty
Not quite removing?
Plus will Obama be visiting his old school when he goes to Indonesia? Indonesia works in strange ways.
Can’t say i blame the Indonesians wanting a statue of a countryman instead of a foreigner.
I wouldn’t want a statue of USA president in my local park
(especially if it was Bush! )
Hi Vera
“I wouldn’t want a statue of USA president in my local park
(especially if it was Bush! )”
and i dont like all those photos of th Queens in Parliament & everywhere either ,
she is a UK foregner
cheers don
markets in europe down again tonight, significantly, at least so far.
http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=europe
In the US non-farm payroll data is due out, which if bad will rattle the cage again. The US labor dept stats also get their yearly adjustment which are expected to show the terrible unemployment situation is even worse by a cool 824,000.
http://www.bloomberg.com/insight/birth-death-model.html
hi Ron
All those queenie photos should of been trown in the trash years ago
Briefly,
While we’re on economics, what is the difference between monetary (RBA) and fiscal (govt)?
Perhaps I should ask Barnaby Rubble.
B. Obama may have lost some shine, but he’d still be very welcome at mine for dinner anytime. I think he is great, even if the reactionaries of American politics have done their best to tear him down. Of course, Mrs Briefly will insist that Michelle O also comes. She is a huge fan.
Well, at the press club this week Senator Rubble said that the government shouldn’t of passed a stimulus, and should’ve just let the RBA cut interest rates to 1%, i.e. rely on a purely monetary stimulus instead of a fiscal stimulus.
The problem is, this would’ve been much slower, and if the economic conditions are bad, it doesn’t matter how low interest rates are, consumers just won’t spend which means businesses stop investing.
monetary policy is interest rates
fiscal policy is government spending (or not spending) etc. The stimulus re GFC and first home owners grants are classic examples of the use of fiscal policy.
Then again there is fiskal policy, but we probably should not go there.
well said senator fielding
But didn’t he call it physical policy when the jounos swarmed on fim ?
The easiest way to determine if a person doesn’t know anything about economics is if they think it is always bad for a government to be in debt.
dave
Feilding was talking about the “phsysical economy” but fluffed it to make himself appear a dill instead of checking out what he actually meant.
http://physicaleconomy.com/
vp…lol. The Barnaby is the oracle. He knows about stuff. He’s the one, so he says. And he can talk openly with Tony Abbott without jumping him. Amazing self control.
But seriously….you are right. Monetary policy is the preserve of the RBA, who, among other things set official interest rates. Once upon a time, the RBA could more or less determine market rates too – the rates paid for deposits and for lending in the financial system as a whole. These days, in a deregulated financial market, with free capital flows into and out of the Australian economy, domestic liquidity and interest rates are also highly influenced by international market pressures too.
By contrast, fiscal policy describes the taxing and spending position of the Government.
ShowsOn@173
Well I’m worried about government debt.
What is the carbon footprint of all those debt trucks?
The 10 Principles of Economics explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVp8UGjECt4
Not sure that a link has been provided to an article in the Central Coast Advocate, It’s O’Neill versus Neal in the Labor battle for Robertson .
You would have to say, that in her favour, Belinda Neal would have the highest profile of any backbencher in Australia. Practically everyone knows who she is – and those who don’t ought to be frightened.
Dow futures down 57 so far tonight.
Still a long way out from the open but not a good sign given last nights drop. After such a drop its not unusual to get (anticipate) a bit of a bounce.
So wot, its Keno.
Can we please return to a world where people make money from making stuff people want to buy?
My answer to both questions is YES
2nd question – thats exactly what the chinese are doing. Very ably assisted by companies who do not want to pay decent wages to people to make the stuff (mostly junk anyway) and consumers who do not want to pay a *reasonable* price for the *junk*.
Vera, Obi needs a middleman. i am available
The best known/most feared backbencher…..it is a toss up between Wilson Tuckey and Belinda Neal. Personally, despite any failings she may have, I would rather have Belinda than Wilson on my side. He is the original wackaloon.
Is that a question?
China makes stuff that people want to buy, it will be interesting to see how Toyota, GM and Ford react when we are driving Cherries and Great Walls.
The most feared backbencher is of course Malcolm Turnbull. The Libs fear that he is plotting a terrible revenge on those who ratted him out, and I’m sure they’re right.
I am sure he has a few mates just waiting for the appropriate moment to slip something into the public domain.
Nah Psephos, it’s Pat Secker
o as the childern return home after the first week at school the mums and dads ask whay did you learn
Barny – Dad i learn something about 1.4million = 3.2 Billion.
Farther – geez son before long you’ll be an Accountant or shoudl that be an American Banker.
Pat Secker is the backbencher most feared to be a zombie.
They’ll have to line up behind lucy.
Rua@186:
The person they should really be scared of is Lucy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew
Chinese household incomes are rising, especially when considered in real (price-adjusted) terms. As well, there is no income tax in China, so household disposable incomes are much higher than hourly labour rates might suggest. Personal thrift is also regarded as a cardinal necessity, so savings rates are very high. As a result, private domestic consumption comprises less than 40% of the Chinese economy and fixed investment is very large compared to mature consumer economies. This provides the means for the Chinese Government to control growth rates: they can and do use their control of the banking system to marshal capital resources and direct lending and investment. This is what Mao would have certainly called capitalism with Chinese characteristics – a command economy with consumerist tendencies and a mercantile approach to external trade, foreign investment and asset accumulation. The big question is, how long will it last?
but Psphos i thought that went to Peter Slipper
psephos @ 185…..lol……the Turnbull is certainly well known, but feared? I suppose that depends on how the Libs go in the year ahead. Is he known for vengeance?
Psephos, I am reminded of a well-known Labor edict: in Victory, Revenge; in Defeat, Malice.
Maybe Turnbull has a Labor streak in him after all…lol
Slipper is the backbencher most feared to be dead for so long people will start to notice.
Gus, Snap!
Don
great minds blah blah blah
And it starts sometime next week when Turnbull makes his speech to the CPRS bills.
Speaking of Sunny Coast pollies, I owe Alex Somlyay an apology – I asserted his new office was not in his electorate, it is. According to whereis it is 30 metres into Fairfax.
Mr Somlyay’s office have explained to me that the move was so his office could be in the centre of his electorate.
The saddest looking ppl last week were the Senate Turnbullites: Boyce, Humphreys and Birmingham. Without their leader they don’t know what to do.
They must feel deeply unwanted, psephos. They could defect….make a run for the cross benches.
Cross the floor and vote for the CPRS. That would be the easiest way for them to end Abbott’s leadership.
Similar to the abbottites, they don’t really know what to do either. How long can Tone keep explaining what his front bench really said?
I just can’t comprehend that voters would kick out a one term government so they can give ministries to Barnaby Joyce and Bronwyn Bishop. Those are the two things that stood out for me this week, the opposition didn’t look like the sorts of oppositions that become governments.
But then again, the Chair Sniffer is W.A. treasurer.
They should take a stand: vote their beliefs and their better hopes, or give in to the conservatives for good.
The Liberal Party operates on the fuhrerprinzip – the Leader is everything and decides everything. Liberal backbenchers only know how to follow the Leader. When they lose their Leader they are like babes in the woods. Since the Fall of Howard they have been psychologically orphaned, and they are in deep distress because they can’t find a new Leader worthy of their submission. The Turnbullites are doubly distressed – their leader candidate failed, but they reject the new one as a usurper. They are awaiting for him to come back and slay the usurper and prove himself the true Leader they crave.
Bronwyn and Philip Ruddock bring a youthful dynamism that Labor cannot match
Shows remember the good folk of WA voted 53.3% in favour of the Rodent and the Hammock dweller.
ShowsOn, I think the question is do the Government look like a worn out and discredited mob, ready to be ejected from office. Clearly not. Carpenter, by contrast, overplayed a weak hand and paid the price.
On the current investment market volatility, the most recent episode of credit induced recession/depression has been Japan. Yes Japan is different, but is indicative that like the 30s, these episodes take a long time to work through and there is a lot of volatility along the way. Since the first big leg down in 1990, Japan has had 4 cycles of 30%+ stock market moves (up and down). After the run in global equity markets over
the last 11 months, would expect a reasonable fall, for sentiment to return to more “realistic” levels. (hopefully this long term Tokyo Stock Exchange chart works out)…
http://quote.tse.or.jp/tse/quote.cgi?F=histidx/EHistIndex&basequote=151_1989&begin=1989/02/04&end=2010/02/04&mode=M&histtype=CSV
Belinda has Della, Malcolm has Lucy (described by Gary Burns as a drag queen) and Wilson Tuckey has ?
Another reason for moving off coal?
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/05/us/AP-US-Centralias-Final-Days.html?_r=1
Gary Burns is a prize idiot.
Thanks to all the gentlepeople who responded about fiscal / monetary. It is impossible to find a definition of fiscal other tha that it pertains to money and finance (duh). It seems monetary relates to the control of the amount of money circulating within the economy (as controlled by the RBA in this sea-girt country) and fiscal relates to any other measures (some of which can be controlled by the government) that can affect the economy.
#214
A pretty successful prize idiot.
He’s a successful self-publicist. But still an idiot.
- Laurie Oakes
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/abbott-must-not-pull-his-punches/story-e6frfhqf-1225827260853
Well a report says it’s true – but is it true?
Wollongong housing dearer than New York
Shows
So “people skills” is really “poople skills”.
Oakes is on drugs.
I’d just like to step in here, not having read all comments up till now and only the original post by William, nevertheless to say that I know more than a little about the Belinda issue, being as I am a member of Robertson FEC.
Firstly, contrary to the reporting in the paper, it is not the Ourimbah Branch of the ALP that passed a motion condemning Belinda Neal as a candidate for the upcoming federal election, it was the Narara Valley Branch. There is no Ourimbah branch.
Also, contrary to Belinda’s self-serving assertion that the branch only contains about 6 members, it actually has about 26 members and is a growing branch that did, indeed, pass the motion referred to unanimously.
Secondly, John Della Bosca is a spent force within the Labor Party of NSW. You may have noticed that he wasn’t reappointed to Kristina Kenneally’s new Ministry? That’s because his power base has evaporated. Sussex St. is no longer his fiefdom.
You may also have noticed that the PM has called for a rank-and-file preselection. Which also means that he isn’t going to override the will of the local FEC by forcing Belinda Neal back onto the electorate.
Finally, Deb O’Neill is uniting both the Right and the Left in Robertson behind her.
So, watch this space.
PY
Says it all really, I live on the Sunshine Coast one of the least affordable places in Aust. My house is “valued” at a million bucks (cost me $175,000) I live on a DSP pension.
In other words its a statistic, that means bugger all.
C@tmomma
out of curiousity why did rudd give belinda a wrap?
is it in your capacity as a member of the FEC that you comment here?
Or possibly “papal skills”.
ps
Ourimbah is a sub branch
#222 – C@tmomma
Thanks. That kind of inormaion makes it worthwhile logging on to PB. Particularly re the MSM stuff up about the branch.
Brian Lara’s honorary Order of Australia medal stolen:
http://beta.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/article101353.ece
What wrap did he give her? Link please.
Was the wrap a negative one, namely – I won’t step in and take the pre=selection out of the hands of pre-selectors and appoint her the candidate, but rather leave it to the rank and file. If she gets the support of the rank and file, it will show she is he best grass roots campaigner ?
Young master peter
Until you end your burmese days as the clergymans daughter,I will presume it is books V cigarettes
Gusface
So my interpretation is right. You have no link. The “wrap” was a line from a MSM report – written by a working journalist in good faith – from background information he /she was supplied by Belinda/Della.
Oh dear, how the worm has turned.
C@tmomma
I would appreciate an answer,also your research is a tad faulty.
Do i need to point out some more factual errors??
Yes, but how long ago did you buy it?
YMP
How’s the puppy luv?
Rudd can’t say “I think backbencher X is a dud and ought to be dumped.” That would become very awkward if X is preselected anyway and Rudd has to go and campaign for him/her. The leader has to support all members in public. Remember the trouble Beazley got into when he refused to say he supported Crean when he was being challenged. If Rudd wants Neal dumped he will communicate that to the NSW Branch in private.
FWIW this is what Rudd said. A straight bat. Nothing for either side to get excited about.
And what on earth is a rescission motion.
http://express-advocate-wyong.whereilive.com.au/news/story/alp-branch-remains-defiant-on-dumping-belinda-neal/
236
A motion to overturn the effect of a previous motion.
Pseph
I doubt a member of the FEC would air their opine on a blog
_________________________________________________________________
pray tell c@tmomma, how was belinda preselected before?
has rudd done this only in robbo?
Ah, the link for the so-called wrap -
Mr Rudd said Ms Neal ”had a bit of a rough start. But she’s been performing as a good local member.
”Belinda, as I’m sure she will, will stick her hand up … but the party’s preselection processes are a matter for the party’s organisation.”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/neal-comes-out-swinging-in-seat-fight-20100204-ngb7.html
Thats a wrap?
Read that “endorsement” as you like. To me it reads like – I am washing my hands of her – she has caused me enough strife. I will leave it up to the rank and file to decide what to do with her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU
It’s the minimum endorsement a Leader can give a sitting member. If he’d been asked about, say, Maxine McKew, he’d have been rather more effusive. I think Rudd really doesn’t want to wade into the internal affairs of the NSW ALP.
#235
And it is Sussex St that is alleged to be backing the challenger – so go figure.
The new ALP site is very reminiscent of the aborted New Democrats website from 2008.
If Belinda gets done over – will she get angry and accuse Rudd of being the Pontius Pilate of Robertson?
But according to c@tmomma,there is no ourimbah branch
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB126532966453340891.html?mod=BOL_hpp_dc#articleTabs%3Darticle
For a brief, but good, read on the Euro, Greece and too much debt…..
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15452594
Gusface,
Sorry I didn’t reply earlier, Lateline was on!
Anyway, to answer your questions:
1. We imagine the PM was being truthful, in a sense. She has worked hard in the electorate since Iguanagate. That doesn’t mean he was saying she was popular.
2. There is no Ourimbah sub-branch. This isn’t the RSL you know!
so who is norm hanscombe?
lateline on again?
Mmmmmm – interesting MSM report:
Sitting Labor pollies get free election ride
Solomon MHR Damian Hale said the new policy allowed members to focus on the big game.
“We’re getting told through the national secretariat that unless you’ve done something very wrong, or they feel you wouldn’t win again, you will be able to fight the election without being concerned with preselection,” he said
and
Another Labor source said that the media had been sold the line that the tainted Belinda Neal, who holds the NSW seat of Robertson, would have to face a preselection battle.
“If anyone else tries to stand they will be tapped,” said the source. “Belinda is being looked after.”
So when does the tapping happen?
Gusface, #238,
Belinda Neal was pre-selected for the 2007 election by the N40 Rule.
Also, last time I looked I was down at the last Robertson FEC meeting.
so who is norm hamscombe?
Norm Hanscombe is a former Tasmanian State Secretary of the Miscellaneous Workers Union.
It might also be noted that Ourimbah is actually in the Division of Dobell.
pseph
it is somewhat unique
but C@tmomma will tell us
Also point blank c@tmomma stated it did not exist
I call her out on this alone
Psephos@255
Unless the Division is part of the Federal Council concerned.
#250 Peter Young,
Would you agree with the proposition that:
1. Belinda did indeed do something that was very wrong re Iguanagate?
2. She is unlikely to win the seat again?
I think that qualifies her as one to be subject to a challenge.
The challenger is no lightweight. I doubt she could get a story into the Telegraph without some form of approval from Sussex St.
I also remember a story in the MSM recently which quoted confidential ALP polling on Belinda in Robertson that referred to her likely loss of some 20% of the vote from the last election levels. Sounds dire enough to do something about if I were doing the calculus for the upcoming election.
If there is an Ourimbah branch most of its members will live in Dobell. I don’t think people who live in Dobell can be pre-selectors in Robertson.
Sigh. Ourimbah is a suburb in the electorate of Dobell. Narara Valley is a combined branch containing members of the ALP who are from both Robertson FEC and Dobell FEC.
Norm Hanscombe is the President of the Branch.
Gusface, don’t try and ‘call me out’ on things you know nothing about.
pseph
C@tmomma should know and she can explain this
So
why say it didnt exist
bigger sigh
Not only is Ourimbah in Dobell, so is most of the Narara Valley. Only Narara South is in Robertson. So Neal could well be right to say that only six of this combined branch’s members (whatever the branch is actually called) live in Robertson. Does Norm Hanscombe live in Dobell or Robertson?
#260 Psephos,
You are right. The members of the branch who reside within the electorate boundary of Dobell are unable to vote in the Robertson pre-selection. They will be voting in the Dobell pre-selection.
Ok, Answer this:-)
Here is what Belinda Neal’s page from the ALP site says about the boundries of the Seat of Robertson.
http://www.alp.org.au/labor-people/belinda-neal/29
#259
I can only say:-
1. What ever happened at Iguana nightclub – Belinda Neal handled the consequences very badly. It also brought to light aspects of her – that otherwise would not have been splashed across the national media. She placed her husband in an awful position of conflict of interest.
2. Whatever the polling is, I would think that there would be a number of people who would vote Labor if there was another candidate, but will vote otherwise if she is the candidate. In other words her candidature will cost Labor votes. I doubt some of her supporters will switch votes if there is a new candidate. Thus she is a risky proposition for Labor to take on.
#264 Psephos,
Norm lives in Robertson.
There are not only about 6 members that live in Robertson area. Also, contrary to what you might be thinking, members of a branch can all vote on any motion, no matter which federal electorate they reside in.
#267, Peter Young,
I can only say that I agree with you.
Some of us want to keep the seat in Labor hands.
Technically no doubt that’s so, but how is it the business of ALP members in Dobell who gets to be the ALP candidate in Robertson?
PY is a Liberal stooge so you’d be well advised not to agree with him.
So the ourimbah branch does not exist when needed
but exists when needed
Your on crack and if you are for real you are really doing the ALP a disservice.
I guess there are a lot of retirees who would live in Robertson. You know the types who sit up all night worrying about movements in the Stock Exchange indices. Don’t think they would be falling over themselves to greet Belinda.
But alas, doubt they would be too inclined to vote Green – so that only leaves them with one option – Liberals – if they don’t fancy Belinda.
Psephos@270
Exactly, in fact from my experience during the one local ballot in Swan Hills for the 2008 State Election, it came down to what side of the street you live whether you were eligible to vote.
#270, Psephos,
‘Technically no doubt that’s so, but how is it the business of ALP members in Dobell who gets to be the ALP candidate in Robertson?’
Technically, they don’t get a say in who the pre-selected member to stand in Robertson is, not being able to be Robertson FEC delegates. They were just voting on a motion, nothing more, nothing less, and if they agreed with that motion they were thus entitled to vote for it. You can vote on any aspect of policy, or any level of government in a branch.
Didn’t Fox News report that Obama went to a terrorist school as a child in Indonesia?
Psephos – #271
Wrong. I am actually a Liberal staffer who sits in an office all day posting on here. I am not a stooge–i actually get paid for this and take my directions from Tony Abbott direct.
ROTFLMAO
Just kidding – but I do encourage conspiracy theories.
Peter Young,
There will be a better ALP candidate. THAT’S who people will be able to vote for.
Likewise, Neal is entitled to ignore their votes – they don’t live in her seat so why should she give a stuff what they think?
Gusface,
Is your avatar that of a Bonobo? ‘Cause you’re sure behaving like one. Very excitable.
I’m sober as a judge by the way.
Night darren
The ultimate bottom line is that if it is true Sussex Street are backing the challenger – it’s curtains for Belinda.
Isnt it true that Obama’s middle name is Hussien?? Sus that!!
By the way TTH would that be Besuki Public School or St. Francis of Assisi School in Jakarta??
Gordon Brown runs a live community cabinet in Exeter
http://www.number10.gov.uk/
#279, Psephos,
We’re not counting their votes. Though as an expression of general discontent I’d say she should take note.
So why haven’t the actual real Robertson branches passed motions of no confidence in her?
#286
Whats it matter if Sussex Street are backing the challenger.
The Ourimbah Narara Valley branch is a joint branch with most of its members in Robertson. ALP branches area based on state electorate boundaries. Belinda Neal was preselected by the National Executive in 2007 so technically any ALP member in Robertson could have contested that preselection.
The motion put by the branch calls on her to resign. Ultimately they cant make her do anything. The timing of the branches actions were completely coincidental. Good timing if you like.
I’m examining C@tmomma’s contention that Neal has lost the support of local ALP members. If that’s the case, why has the only branch to say they want Neal out is mostly located in another seat?
America unemployment rate down to 9.7%
So it’s Up and DOWN at the same time.
Sounds like BS to me.
hav listened to C@tmomma answers
C@tmomma is saying combined branch members can vote on any moton except a moton to say who is pre selected
Am not sure whether he has acknowleged combined branch moton HAS been passed of unhappy with Neal (seeing on what he said a combined branch could pass such a moton) OR if robertson branch members hav numbers to stop her pre selecton) so we can suss if MSN story has any legs
so C@tmomma cn you let us know
#286, Psephos,
Narara Valley IS a ‘real’ Robertson branch.
The other Robertson branches did not hold meetings over the holidays.
#291, Ron,
All members of a branch can vote on any motion.
They do not, however, get to vote in the Rank-and-File pre-selection contest.
It is still yet to be fully calculated where the numbers are re the pre-selection.
*gorn*
Real Estate agents are jumping on the opportunity MySchool website provides them to encourage parents to move suburbs and purchase a new house.
Just a pity about those who might get left behind.
Schools website leads parents to change address
C@tmomma
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 12:48 am | Permalink
#291, Ron,
“All members of a branch can vote on any motion.
They do not, however, get to vote in the Rank-and-File pre-selection contest.”
yes undrstood that from your answeres and said that in my #291
you answerd one of my ? ‘s , thanks
what about othr one re if a general moton of unhappy been passed by th combined branch
From what I can gather, despite Kev Rudd not wanting Neal (or at least not caring about her) and Sussex Street standing a candidate against her, the posters here, including Ron, want her to be pre-selected. Which I must say is surprising, given that Ron is always toeing the party line.
PY
do you want me to find my post from yestdy saying th reverse
which proves you knew that and ar a liar , seeing from my memory you were around then , or
proves you just make things up assumin what people tink
The ALP members can only vote in the seat they live
vs
The Liberal Party model of 30% of a branch can live outside the area.
Looking at those two rules it is clear why for all the whoo arr about what the head office does but in reality the ALP have a better tract record of attracting talented MPs
I don’t know a great deal about Robinson but i have a gut feeling that Belinda Neal may hold. this is one seat that the Liberals would be better placed by Tony Abbott as leader than if it had Turnbull.
#298 – Ron
Apologies Ron – I missed that post you referred to. You don’t need to find it. I believe you. It fits better into the scheme of things…you are pursuing the party line. All is normal. No need for concern.
For a while there I was afraid the sky might have turned yellow.
mex beemer
reckon they’d be more likely to hold it with an altern candidate whoever is Lib leeder
Peter Young
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 1:15 am | Permalink
#298 – Ron
“Apologies Ron – I missed that post you referred to. You don’t need to find it. I believe you. It fits better into the scheme of things…you are pursuing the party line. All is normal. No need for concern.
For a while there I was afraid the sky might have turned yellow”
Dont try humour PY , you giv it a bad name
see when you act serous , you ar a clown
ps/ i first said my anti Neal statements heres over 12 mths ago BEFORE any ofical Labor person said anything
So obvous they take notise of me , not other way around so you just wRONg , again
Ron
True there is a lot going against Neal holding it and for that reason i just have a mental picture of Kerry looking over Anthony’s shoulder and saying gee Neal is looking good in Robinson.
mexicanbeemer
Isn’t the question for Labor-
a. Which of Neal or O’Neille is likely to score the higher vote.
b. If it is Neal, no need to change.
c. If it is O’Neille – then she would be the better choice, and the only possible reason for selecting Neal would be that either candidate will hold the seat – and Labor is prepared to get a lower vote (but still hold the seat). I guess in such a case, there would need to be other reasons for preferring Neal over O’Neille.
mex beemer , th guy from Newtowns way can count , reckon he has passed on his opinon , as you would know in his timid way
Dow breaks 10,000
9960
The Pensioners are gunna have a restless nite.
Can’t wait for Monday for my cheap share buying spree
Truthy –
What makes you think that the Index is gunna be at the bottom on Monday. If it ends up at 9,800 tonight, it still has another 9,800 points to fall. Why not wait and find out where the real bottom is.
$132 Million Dollar Christmas Island Detention Centre blowout!
GEE, Thats the most expensive “white elephant” I’ve ever seen! I wonder how the Labor Party plan to turn it into a “scientific research centre” or “tourist accomodation” is going.
Imcompetent… leftwing shrill.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/04/2810658.htm?section=justin
Christ mate, you don’t know much about share trading do you.
Key rule is not to follow the sheep herd. Everyones selling off in absolute panic as their tweeds take on a new shade of brown as they see their investments drop to 5 month lows.
The only way I could see the “bottom” is to wait until share prices start rebounding, which is a stupid thing to do, because by that time it’s too late, and i’ve missed out on the bargain basement prices.
When people are selling off in a frantic you need to be buying. I think a lot of the market crash this week has to do solely and purely with the basketcase U.S economy. Australian companies(and a lot of the U.S companies) meanwhile are posting huge profit increases over 12 months ago.
Here you will find some graphical depictions of US Govt debt as a share of GDP – how it fell significantly during the Clinto years, only to burst during the Dubya years:
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2010/01/federal_debt_th.html
Not so far behind borrowings of Hellenic proportions:
And Debt:GDP going back to the end of the Depression….
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2009/03/debt_trajectory.html
Things are bad and getting worse.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/asylum-arrivals-push-christmas-island-to-limit/story-e6frg6nf-1225826896694
Gee Imagine that…. a “Enormous White Elephant” that was completely empty 2 years ago under the tought Howard Government Laws… now 2 years later, a facility designed only for 400 illegals has 1700 illegals there and is about to spill over.
I’m sorry lefties, but the Rudd Government has a FAILED policy on illegals. It doesn’t matter how you try to spin it, it’s completely undeniable that Rudd has taken a policy that worked ripped it up, and is now left with a huge mess that no amount of feel-good bleeding heart rhetoric will be able to cover up.
I love how the U.S government is reporting a drop in “unemployment” despite 20,000 more job cuts.
How does this happen? Well easy. When your economy is a basketcase and it’s impossible to find a job, people give up looking. When they give up looking it means the artificial “unemployment” rate drops.
So luckily for the Obama Administration hundreds of thousands of unemployed people have given up looking for work.
Unfortunately for the Obama Administration, the investors aren’t buying the BS and the markets are in free fall.
My prediction for Dow -1% by close.
Not doubting the cat’s mother – we live in different states, so the rules vary – but I don’t think, in Victoria, you can have branches which cover two Federal electorates.
And I can’t see how that would work. For example, it’s not uncommon for branches to be levied by their Federal Electorate assembly (the local ALP body which runs the election campaign) for money towards the Federal election.
If your branch contains a mix of people from different federal electorates, they’re going to find it onerous, either having to raise twice the funds or to raise funds for an electorate they’re not in.
The NY market finished marginally ahead on better news, and US manufacturing continues to recover…..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=axroO_CguYng&pos=1
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aeOvRuKGbapo&pos=2
#318
So Truthy missed the bottom of the market ! He was a day too late.
Hehehehehe
#317, Zoomster,
The people in that particular branch are always on the edge of redistributions, so they stay in the same branch as the electorate boundaries move about them, then adjust to the appropriate FEC, SEC and LGC accordingly.
As for funding, donations are made to the candidate of your individual choice, though you would find most members directing their money to the candidate for their electorate.
FORMER federal Labor MP Bob Brown said the “once proud and majestic ALP” had fallen prey to “spivs” who had no interest in “justice, decency and equality”.
Ex Hunter MP says Labor fallen to ‘spivs’
I’ve just been reading Laurie Oakes in the Brisbane Courier-Mail “Attack’s not always best defence” (sorry don’t know how to link) and in it he says that “Like Abbott, Joyce has a high likeability rating…..” High????
Have I missed something? I mean, I love peppermint cream chocolates which have a very high likeability rating with me but I’d never vote for one. Where is this “likeability” poll? Likeable with whom – really rusted on Libs and Nats (or Lib/Nats, Nat/Libs or whatever they are called this week)?
I actually don’t know why I spoil my breakfast reading this rubbish – I’m sure there is more entertaining news (and possibly more truth) in the Pyong Yang or Harare Courier-Mail. Thank goodness for the internet.
Oakes also says the PM has left his “simple” message on the ETS far too late and has given too much leeway to the Opposition to mount a scare campaign and it is doubtful that Rudd can undo the damage. Oh well, let’s just see on that one.
Who knows where the market will go…..Morgan Stanley are very pessimistic, others less so. The market has been betting on a very strong recovery in profits and growth, but has been disappointed, so sentiment will adjust. The volatility does not say much for the so-called “efficient markets hypothesis”, which kind of boils down to saying the markets are always right, which invites the question, how can they be right at the open and right at the close, and yet travel 4% up and down in between. The markets are a casino…
Ahhh. Markets had their own little *moon-shot* commencing the last hour and half before the close
http://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXSP%3A.INX
And the reason ?
Soo. A lot of *bad* news ignored. For now at least.
Some comments on the Herald’s website regarding falling membership in Newcastle:
@That’s the problem with the ALP. They will let you hand out how to vote cards but won’t let you select your local member.
# It is the usual hype and spin that we have come to expect from the right of the ALP. It is a bitter cycle, branchstacking and imposing candidates on electorates drives people from the party. Members leave or in some cases rebel and run independents. The party reacts be expelling people, what high handed arrogance. If such actions took place in a workplace, the nepotism, the threats, and the expulsions we would call it what it is, it’s bullying!
#One time it used to be a party for the w
#orking “class” people but today they are too interested in their own personal welfare than worry or work for their neighbour.
# Report Card? Labor – Fail. Opposition – Could Try Harder. Greens – Need Clear Direction.
#What is the use of being a member of a party that continually disregards the branches preferred candidate for elections and parachutes who they want into that particular seat.
#Greens Councillor Peter Freewater nominated for the seat of Robertson, on the front page of the Peninsula News dated the 25 of January 20010. He said he has had enough of the political corruption and immoral governance. Long suffering constituents must make sure this Federal Ballot is not a two party contest.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/party-faithful-desert-hunter-labor-branches/1742975.aspx?page=1
You are dead right on that.
I like Marcus Padley’s weekend articles in the SMH. Some bits from todays article:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/invest-wisely-or-get-flattened-by-elephants-20100205-nilc.html
The full article is worth the read.
MSM media pundits’ “People don’t like Rudd”, “Don’t warm to Rudd” meme & variations contrast strongly with what must, by now, by the longest 2PP PM “honeymoon” in Oz op polling history. Similarly, the “People warm to Abbott” meme beggars belief in the light, not only of his 2PP PM ratings, but those of predecessor Opposition leaders at the same point in their terms.
Nor does either meme stack up against what one hears or overhears in general conversation – even (though begrudgingly) from Liberal supporters. In Brisbane, esp on the Western side, the talk is all off the massive Western Freeway (much promised but never so much as started by Howard) and other fully/ part-Fed-funded traffic infrastructure, the benefits of the stimulus package and what their local schools are getting – and most people see Gillard’s My School website as a big positive. In other areas, “Black Spot” initiatives (the one on the Bruce H’way north of Cooroy is finally being fixed) is another talking point. Add to this the obvious part-Fed Funded construction work in hospitals & other health infrastructure, and frequent comments like, “Everywhere you look, there’s construction work going on.” A few threads back, I reported on the blue-ribbon Downs’ (Groom, Maranoa) main newspaper’s laudatory coverage of school improvements (hospital & private construction have also received the same treatment.
One has to ask What, about Rudd, do the MSM so dislike? That he prefers newer media? That, unlike Howard, he’s actually “doing something” with tax $$$ (as people often comment)? That, after 12 years of Howard’s “dumbed down” populist politics, dog whistles & culture wars, they can’t deal with a PM who speaks to voters as if they’re intelligent, mostly well-educated adults (anyone who doubts this should check out GenX & Y school retention to yr12 & post-school ed & completion stats)?
I love how the U.S government is reporting a drop in “unemployment” despite 20,000 more job cuts.
How does this happen?
Something about a “household survey” which showed more Americans in work than was thought, or something like that, but I don’t see how that is reconciled with the downwardly revised job losses almost totaling one million across 2009. Market was very confused to say the least, at least it was in forex world.
dave #326
In all but “blue chips” (& sometimes even them, eg currently) the share market is a form of gambling, with even more of the same type of touts, “good thing” tipsters, shonks, hype, risks & addiction than horse & dog racing; made even more so by the type of gambling, paper-shuffling & skullduggery that precipitated the GFC. There’s nothing <emrational about gambling.
Poor truthy, driven by the delusion that the boat people issue will bring his party into government, whilst praying for bad news in the US economy. He should talk to Piers about Heiner and lost dreams…
mb
But they can stand for preselection in a seat they don’t live in and presumably then can’t vote in their own preselection battle.
Hi Truthy, how long have you been a boat person for? Have you applied for citizenship yet?
A general comment about the Robertson preselection (I couldn’t care less who wins).
If the preselection battle continues to be an ugly battle played out in the media with all these silly motions being reported on the basis of 20 people voting, the only thing you can be sure of is that it won’t matter who wins coz they the voters will get sick of the Labor infighting and vote for the opposition.
It was up 1 tenth of 1%.
Hardly what I would call a “rebound” on losses.
It did reach -2.2% at one point though i’ll give you that.
Dio you are right.
nefarious forces are at work
Gus
Are you saying there are Labor people in Robertson who would prefer to see the Lib or Nat win than Neal and are acting on that, or is it just a stuff-up?
Weren’t these the same dckheads telling us to leave our Superannuation in the sharemarket during the 2008-2009 crash?
I tell you what… I saved a crapload of money moving my Superannuation into Cash. While these thugs… no wait… con-artists were on TV Ad’s telling people “keep your money in the market, it will rebound!” poor bastards dumb enough to believe that BS the country over were losing tens of thousands of dollars.
It did rebound… after a 50% loss in market value. Wow I sure did miss out didn’t I mister banker?
So does Oakes conclude Labor will lose the next election?
Shaun Carney gives a more realistic assessment of Joyce and Abbott.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/walking-the-line-20100205-niib.html
dio@337:
I have no knowledge of the matter, but on general principles I would bet on a stuff up over a conspiracy every time!
Peter Hartcher -
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbott-can-fight-but-he-needs-a-solid-corner-man-20100205-nik9.html
GB, its hard to believe that Joyce really got away with his appalling Press Club performance. Its like he gets free pass because the press knows he’s dill. Imagine if Rudd or Swan or any other minister had of made these errors? They would be baying for blood!!
Every time the MSM makes exceptions for the coalition, it dimishes their credibility even further
Diogenes,
Pretty sure they can’t anyway. All they can do is present their case for selection!
Wilfully off topic, but…
Happy birthday Frank Calabrese.
If the OZ Media is deserving of this criticism here over it’s coverage of Rudd and Abbott, it seems only fair to acknowledge that the newspapers (desperate as they are to publish school comparisons as an inexpensive way to increase their circulation) treated MySchool with an “America’s Cup Victory” level of headlines along with glowing praise for the Labor Govt. and also treated Gillard like she’s the reincarnation of Mother Teresa for presenting them with a circulation boosting gift that keeps on giving.
John Marsden, principal at Candlebark School which was the top-ranked school in the federal government’s table of 50 comparable schools for the NAPLAN 2008 reading test results, has his say on the MySchool web site. Suffice to say it is not particularly complimentary.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/raising-the-blah-20100205-nia0.html
Another ramification of the MySchool web site which will entrench and exacerbate existing inequality.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/schools-website-leads-parents-to-change-address-20100205-niqw.html
MySchool – just another populist gimmick which can be exploited by those already advantaged.
Pegasus,
You anti My Schoolers are really stretching. I suppose you think it still essential that someone walk in front of motorised vehicles with a red flag.
People move into suburbs for a myriad of reasons including access to public transport,
shops, proximity to work and the quality of schools. People moving to particular addresses to enable enrolment at a particular school is nothing new. So spare us the faux surprise. Up until now people have made these decisions based on local knowledge and perceived reality.
The electorate have spoken and it is clear that they want access to this sort of information. The argument from here will be how to make it better not whether it should exist or not.
Peg@348:
Those already advantaged are already living close to schools which have good results. Schools with good results tend to be in areas where the already advantaged live.
What this will do is motivate those who are less advantaged than those already advantaged to move to the areas with better schools, provided they can organise transport to their existing place of employment, or to another place of employment close by, and provided they can afford a house in the areas with better schools.
If they hadn’t thought of it before, they will now.
People with no choice still have no choice so far as the school their child attends is concerned.
The myschool site will allow however allow them to work out how their child is doing compared with others at the school, and may allow them to put pressure on the school to lift its game.
And it is not a gimmick. It is a measure of not just the performance of a school, but a measure of the students who attend that school in the first place.
Parents want the best for their children. If at all possible, they want their children to be in the best possible school, not just in terms of teachers, but in terms of the standard of the students themselves who show up on the first day.
A child in a class made up of others of high ability is automatically advantaged. The teacher adjusts the level of difficulty to match the calibre of the students who show up in class. Put top kids in there, and the teacher will give more difficult material, and expect more from the students.
If the school does not select in terms of academic ability, although it is a top school, what may happen is that the clientele may well drop in average ability, as people with children from less advantaged schools schools with lower expectations move to a better school, provided that the schools have enough places to take extra students.
And the poorer schools may also suffer a drop in average ability of their clientele, as well as a drop in enrolments.
However moving house just to get children into a better school is an option not open to many, I would have thought.
Yeah, cos people don’t already try to live in areas with good schools. Pillock.
Could someone tell me where Julia got this idea. Yep it was America and Britain. In America public education is under attack. In New York recently some 19 public schools were shut down because of league tables highlighting under performance. Mayor Bloomberg a well known private school supporter wants to close public schools and since 2002 in his State some 100 have been shut down.
Since the 1970′s the amount of spending on public schools per head of GDP in Australia has more than halved from 5.9 percent to 2.7 per cent.
And Labor since being in government is continuing this trend. It continues to give bucket loads of money to wealthy schools.
And isn’t it interesting that the media loves the website… The Australian said this “My School will be welcomed by everyone who understands education is the engine of productivity.” The Australian Financial Review stated this “We tend to hear a lot about industrial relations changes, reducing regulatory burdens and increasing competition. These all matter, but the evidence shows education reforms would make a much bigger difference to our gross domestic product …
The my school website is a disgrace and will further polarise education and will do nothing about the problems of learning in this country. The government should instead being spending more money on public education and less on wealthy schools, actually nothing on wealthy private schools.
happy birthday Frank
am sure an very expensive pressy is in th mail to you from William ,
from us all
ron,
I hear he needs some new pots and kettles.
And then of course, there is the elephant in the room…
Kids know these tests don’t “count” and so many don’t “try”. Source: my kids – one at a selective school, one at a good comprehensive high.
A test is only valid when it does what it sets out to do.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with shutting down under performing schools, AFTER they have been given a chance to improve performance.
They should do the same for under performing departments in universities.
OK, so the tests should be made to count. They should be 15% of the student’s final grade.
The teacher unions’ fears about the My School site have already been realised.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/teach-for-tests-teachers-told-20100204-ng6o.html
When teaching literacy and numeracy is narrowly focussed on passing NAPLAN tests – to the extent of giving 8 year old kids practice questions from the tests – then the quality of education suffers.
What about underperforming governments?
How long should we give NSW LAbor before shutting their party down?
Winston
That was entirely predictable. Any time you measure something in a very public way, you change the system. The same happens for waiting lists, times in emergency departments etc.
The local private school spent ages on homework, setting tests and tutoring students directed to the NAPLAN tests to make them look better.
Heisenberg doesn’t just apply to quantum physics.
Love to know how you are going to do it?
Maybe you should just leave it up to the NSW voters to decide whether or not they wish to have another 4 years of a Labor Government “AT” the next election!
What about under-performing idiots?
How long should we give The Idiot before shutting The Idiot down?
Why do union opinions count now? I thought they were the paragon of evil?
Which of course is the whole idea. The Federal government doesn’t think schools spend enough time teaching students the absolute basics, so they are making the results public to encourage teachers to do a better job.
Well duh
Of course the opinions of teacher’s unions are important, but they aren’t the ONLY important opinion.
SO
I haven’t seen Gillard say that she doesn’t think the schools spend enough time teaching the basics as a reason for bringing it in.
So what creates an underperforming school Shows On ?
Apparently the public shouldn’t be allowed to know
I have repeatedly, most recently a couple of weeks ago on 5AA.
If the Government doesn’t think schools spend enough time teaching the basics they could simply mandate a proportion of the school week to be spent on numeracy and literacy. Which I understand is the case in Victoria.
Lots of factors. One factor, that apparently no one is allowed to consider, is teachers that don’t do a very good job.
The MySchool train has left the station. As GG said “The argument from here will be how to make it better not whether it should exist or not.”
I don’t think the federal government should mandate this for ALL schools. For some schools it would be unnecessary because of high achievement in the tests already.
I agree. For example, the My School website should provide a detailed breakdown showing exactly what private schools spend their fees on.
Greensborough Growler
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
ron,
“I hear he needs some new pots and kettles.”
GG , were you thinking navy blue
As a concept I don’t believe tests should be used other than to determine that what has been taught has sunk in and if not it is re-taught and re-tested. That means the testing is done on a local basis only, within a classroom.
Generalised testing is for parents only who believe ranking their children against others in the school, state and country somehow helps the child. I’m yet to work out how this is so. This has been the parents and community’s love child for many years and will continue to be so.
MySchool is not educationally sound IMHO but it panders to the parents like you wouldn’t believe. They love it. Politically it is very sound, like it or not.
Diogenes,
Did you end up making it to the public meeting? The one Blees, Caldicott et al were appearing at?
If so, how was it? Well-attended or sparse?
And most importantly, did it bring out anything interesting?
So lets put all professions onto a website to judge how accountants, lawyers, financial planners, plumbers and the list goes on and judge their performance..
This is naming and shaming people. So underperforming teachers has nothing to do with inadeuate resources such as a lack of teachers or remedial teachers in schools Shows On or home life of the child.
So what school did Shows attend, a poor battling western suburbs one?
On that logic, you must be calling for an end to tertiary entrance exams. Somehow I don’t think that will happen.
How is that so when no one is named or shamed?
If you bothered to read my post, you would’ve noted I said there are many factors. But ONE that for years no one has been allowed to talk about is that some teachers are just HOPELESS at their jobs, and do extremely poorly even though they have the resources to do a good job.
Marky, just about everybody thinks that would be a great idea
except for one occupation, it would be entirely appropriate.
And, not coincidentally, just about everyone reckons the excluded occupation should be the one they themselves work in…
Ah, the humanity!
A very large public school that I caught 2 buses to get to, when I could’ve gone to a much closer school that I didn’t think was as good. Most of the teachers I had were hopeless who simply taught memorisation instead of ways to learn. The most important thing I actually learnt at high school was how to touch type. I didn’t actually learn anything properly until I started university.
And ShowsOn is at it again… with his favourite word “idiot”
I believe there is a big difference between tertiary, secondary and primary education. That must be obvious. Otherwise, are you insisting kids in kindergarten do general tests to determine there entrance into primary school?
Year 9s do the NAPLAN tests too. They are high school students. You obviously haven’t looked at the MySchool website!
Look on the bright side TTH … you are ShowsOn’s favourite idiot
So are accountants, financial planners, builders many people are hopeless at their jobs… Shows…
You can soon work out what teachers are not performing Shows… and it may not be them that may be the reason…
Again it may be things such as a lack of resources in the classroom, computers etc, home life of the child, class sizes, time limts on helping
children who are falling behind which in poorer schools is more common.
We should highlight the funding of schools i have no probs here but quite simply why not just fund the poorer schools now instead and cut funding to
the Geelong Colleges of this world. What they have got to have thier turfed wicket and electric scoreboard and rowing club oh i forgot…
This is funny!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/pms-on-air-raid/story-e6frgdk6-1225827280135
If an accountant or builder is crap at their work, they will over time gain a poor reputation and then no one will hire them! Why can’t parents have the same flexibility with schools? You are basically saying that crap schools and teacher should remain hidden so parents can’t make an informed choice to direct their money elsewhere!
I realise that and I’m saying those tests are basically meaningless as a teaching tool, which I believe tests should be used for. I taught for 30 years. I know what is going on.
But he has truth on his side. You simply have bigotry and idiocy.
Here’s a bit more good reading!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/registered-posts-could-help-untangle-a-web-of-uncivil-liberty/story-e6frg6zo-1225827007585
TheTruthHurts,
Well, you could call it a cut-and-dried case, except for all the crap you go on with. If you actually believe the things you say, then “The Idiot” seems to be a technically correct description.
We can’t even except your minor subject (making more-or-less useful statements on the stock market) because even here your problem rears its head viz your constant attribution of responsibility for a global recession to a single leader who wasn’t there when it was created, and has sharply limited ability to do anything about it.
The alternative of course, is that you don’t really hold as gospel your major stock-in-trade, and are doing it simply because (insert reason here). If so, then ShowsOn’s serial taunt is even more applicable
because you could be doing so many productive things with your time.
So if you are looking for sympathy, you’re a mug, mate…
What crap! Hidden! Yep Storm financial in Queensland got away with peoples’ life savings and was able to do it for years yep their reputation really suffered but how long did it take… parents will judge what their teachers are likeby talking to other parents throughout the year or through speaking to the teacher directly.
It is political gimic which will do my harm than good.
Some parents are finding out that the problem with underperformance is that more teachers teach at private schools than public schools
As one parent noted is it not time that the government changed the funding formula for private and public schools.
Teachers are singled out for the government lack guts to do something about the inequality in funding and most teachers do not have the
resources- simple.
Oh by the way where is Grocery and Petrol watch? And what a mess Steve Conroy is making of telecommunications.. time this dill went.
You’re assuming a generalised test will show up crap schools and teachers. Let me give you one example where that argument falls down. A teacher is given a class of children whose work standard has been very low and brings them up from well below standard to just below standard (according to the generalised tests). Has that teacher failed? Is that teacher a bad teacher?
Why are people more and more sending their chidlren to private schools? It is because of the lack of funding for public education.
Also it is fact that most people who leave university tend to be from private schools because they seem to have been spoon fed at their private
school and when they get to uni this ceases. Also most kids who become lawyers, doctors are from private schools are wealthy backgrounds
why is this so? Wealthy backgrounds? No it is what the teacher who caused it.
This situation has been the same for decades. Each year why do more students from private schools get the best marks and are more likely to
get into the best univeristy courses. Teachers or wealth of school and the resources?
scorpio @ 393,
Very funny! I think Penberthy sat down to write a standard anti-piece, but since he runs The Punch (and has to deal with the “open sewer” & its denizens fairly directly) couldn’t stop the irritation bubbling to the surface. Left an ugly stain of agreement across the middle of his article, diluting its impact.
Also most kids who become lawyers, doctors are from private schools and wealthy backgrounds
why is this so? Wealthy backgrounds? No, the teacher was the result say some- crap in most instances, the teacher helped.
This situation has been the same for decades. Each year why do more students from private schools get the best marks and are more likely to
get into the best univeristy courses. Teachers or wealth of school and the resources?
As usual my hands think before my brain!!!!!!
Seems th train has left th station , but th knockers fare evaders hav jumped on still whinging there anti MySchool stuff
by THEM defining purpose of MySchool , as a straw man and then arguing against there own narowly defined MySchool purpose !
MySchool is evoluton , of knowledge now made public not secrets any more
Change in MANY socio , educ , econamic , teaching ,etc etc areas will result , some inconvenient truths along way
putting a dot of ink on a big ppicture is for th anti labor snoopers
I would expect those who attack my wise words to do so via disproving my claims or views, instead of pathetic personal attacks.
It seems I ask too much from the lefties, even on this point.
There is something seriously amiss with the Catholic Libs. Baranby wants to take food out of the mouths of starving children and give to his National Party base. Abbot demonizes the refugees while ‘dog whistling’ racist sentiments. Kevin Andrews wantonly destroyed the life of the Indian doctor Haneff in the reckless pursuit of some fear driven votes. There is not much christian love nor compassion with this mob of fear spruikers. When you add in their reluctance to protect future generations of Australians by taking constructive action to deal with climate change, one has to wonder what kind of Christianity they practice.They are truly a revolting bunch of hypocrites!
Oh no, TTH. Don’t tell me your morphing into … a Diogenes, searching for an honest man
Scarpat,
If so, his lantern must be fuelled by diesel oil.
SO
Assuming that’s right, then I have no problems with her doing it. I just hadn’t heard her say it.
I actually agree with her from my very limited experience. I can’t see why the local primary is trying to teach my daughter Italian when I need to get a tutor for her reading and spelling.
I’m pretty sure Gillard is ultimately responsible for schools curriculum and if she thinks the State Departments of Education have got it wrong, she can step in.
I just hope that the kids are taught all of the basics and not just trained to pass the tests.
Speaking of proof, we still await proof that you’re ‘born and bred’ in Australia. Until then we assume you arrived on a boat in the recent past. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.
Kersebleptes @ 398,
All those News Ltd bloggers should be “forced” to read “every” comment submitted for publication, not just the ones the moderator deems suitable for publication to reinforce the message of the blogger plus a couple of token contrary ones!
They would soon realise just what garbage they post and how the lunatic fringe feed of it!
News Ltd should be ashamed for the way in which they try and manipulate the readership of these blogs for partisan political purposes!
They are breeding a whole generation of Troothies but the problem with this is that they live here, out in the community with us.
How long before we start to see similar crazy, lunatic activity similar to what the US has had for quite a while.
The nutter up in Darwin is a classic example. Take whatever action your twisted mind comes up with. It’s ok! Most people on XX’s blog think the same way as I do, so it must be ok!
Bird of paradox@345
Gee Thanks – damn Faxebook
Scorp
#393
just luv way Murdoch Press ignored Bill vote agreed by ALL , Greens , Libs , Labor Family First and Mr X rep ,
then said nothing for 3 weeks after Bill passed !
then writes a lie , ie intenet bloggers would hav to each supply indiv name & address , as a crap beatup ,
then uses 1000 odd blogers rants to there Site who read there beatup , conned by there beatup to spook Govt , to reverse
and NOW sanctomoniously pretends to take th high moral ground , and criticise alot of thos very bloggers THEY conned
sureley another eg of Murdoch press gutter journalisim
K man
Mrs D was sick yesterday so I couldn’t make it to the debate. As penance I started reading the Blees book today and it’s excellent. GG and ru have already read it and a few others I think.
He’s making some very good points about energy. He’s saying that even if AGW is not true, there are a large number of reasons to change what we are doing; declining oil reserves, pollution, energy security, water resources, nuclear waste and proliferation being the main ones.
He’s going to explain how IFRs will help with these issues.
Barry Brook is really good at podcasting everything he in involved in and I’m sure he will podcast the debate. I’ll link it when he does.
Diog, like Herr Doktor, the intellectual content was actually higher. Should do it more often.
Diogenes,
I expect there was a top class Doctor handy, just in case he might be needed eh?
Hope she is feeling better now!
scorpio,
That certainly is what they do on the News blogs, but (thinking of PB) perhaps natural forces in time can produce the same situation!
And you’re dead right about the creation of little (or not so little) cliques of altered reality- based on the blogs of, for example, Bolt & his ilk.
In the early C.20th, there was much concern about the number of impressionable people (often young, but not always) who would justify appalling or just stupid criminal acts with the statement “I did it because I saw it in the movies”. Now it’s “…but Alan Jones said so”.
On a slightly tangential subject, I reckon one good thing about the problems & rebuffs that Obama in the US has suffered lately is that some groups of nutters may no longer be thinking of an assassination attempt. Sniping with bullshit is still awful and counterproductive, but much preferable to the real thing.
Malcolm Mackerras has been huddled over the crystal ball again. He would get a better idea of what is going on be spending a bit of time on Possums’ and Antony’s Blogs.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/changes-lift-rudds-chances/story-e6frgczf-1225826980089
Amigo Finns
me thinks my #409 may be a problam
Finns
You are so mean to me.
I see that Obama got his way with the Goldman Sachs CEO’s bonus. Instead of being $100M it was only $9M.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/06/business/06bonus.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Kersebleptes,
Pies blog is a classic example of the abuse of a public forum to push an extreme agenda and incite the lunatics which have made his blog home!
He even throws in comments of his own regularly to throw a bit of fuel on and keep the fire burning brightly.
Bolter does a similar thing, but has been reigned in a bit lately by management because he was going too far with it, especially with the comments he was letting through.
Pies on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have the same restrictions put on him and I am just waiting for the day when the troupe of lawyers logging all his rants and blog comments, suddenly dump a truckload of writs on them and the publisher.
Diogenes,
No good to hear about Mrs D. Hope she bounced back!
I can’t find Blees’ book in a library catalogue near me, so I’ll await a podcast link for the meeting with great interest! Thanks for trying!
Gee, I wonder how the poor beggar will make ends meet now?
scorpio,
There are few bloggers on the Net that cultivate their audience more assiduously than Pies. He puts so much effort (and thus time) into it that he must see it as critical for maintaining the bubble. And he is right…
*must do some chores*
Frank
happy birthday
http://www.profilebrand.com/graphics/category/birthday/birthday17.gif
Will Barny “Bag of Hammers” Joyce suddenly go quiet on Chinese Investment, given Clive Palmer’s Alpha mine in funded by China?
Mackerras is probably pretty much on the money with his Senate predictions, but can expect some pretty lively debate on his Reps predictions.
This is his third crystal ball gaze this term. I think he might do one or two more yet, this year. Things are bound to bounce around a bit depending what happens within the Coalition! (The Turnbull/Abbott – Barnyard – Minchin factor)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/changes-lift-rudds-chances/story-e6frgczf-1225826980089
Diog, moi? mean to you? But not as mean as they were to the handsome, sexy and dashing Gorgeous George:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/follow-your-gut-he-may-be-a-better-bet-than-george-clooney-20100205-nika.html
Amigo Vera, i did tell you to stick with me rather than Amigo Ronnie, because this is so me:
Been away for a few hours, but have read the posts made in my absence. I got a shock !
Gary Bruce has come up with arguments against against MySchool, but begrudginly accepts it because it is a political winner. So Ron is the winner of the award today “Toe the Line” – for consistent effort. Ron is a true and brave foot soldier.
Kevin Rudd to destroy Australia’s way of life:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-2050-is-a-future-we-cant-afford-20100205-niwk.html
Sounds good to me.
Finns
I like fat and bald
Has anyone else been missing Malcolm
Good to see him out and about.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/turnbull-supports-emissions-scheme-20100206-njbn.html
Troothy,
You left out Hospitals and nursing homes as well as retirement homes and villages!
They will probably cost as much as that again!
What’s news about that ?
Vera, i took my OH to see Gorgeous George in “Up in The Air”. He didnt do much for her either, phew ……… Methinks Gorgeous George is losing his sex appeal being too Gorgeous.
FINNS
‘The right partner, if you are looking for one in midlife, is unlikely to be anything like George Clooney. “He’s more likely to be losing his hair and battling his weight but if he genuinely likes women, and is proud of you, consider settling.”
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/follow-your-gut-he-may-be-a-better-bet-than-george-clooney-20100205-nika.html
“Amigo Vera, i did tell you to stick with me rather than Amigo Ronnie, because this is so me:”
He’s (G Clooney) more likely to be losing his hair and battling his weight but if he genuinely likes women, and is proud of you, consider settling
ah but for th but , th gentle personalitys , and
intelectuals last a lifes times
If Turnbull really cranks up his opposition to Abbott’s CC plan and support for an ETS, then Abbott is going to have no end of problems cutting through, even with the substantial help from the MSM he has got so far.
Turnbull sure knows how to get noticed in the media! Rudd & Co will be sitting back laughing their insides out!
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/turnbull-supports-emissions-scheme-20100206-njbn.html
I am sure Turnbull will pull the media strings when it suits him.
Finns
I’ve never been keen on George
Johnny Depp on the other hand…..
Ron
Yes us gentle inoffensive types are loved by all
I saw Macca complaining about the ETS yesterday and saying how great Abbott’s plan to increase our emissions by 13% was.
I really don’t know how these people can sleep at night.
I was disappointed in Macca too, he was such a different man when he was hanging out with our Penny!
Mackerras
“Now for the House of Representatives. For the lower house I confidently predict that the result will lie somewhere in a range between a landslide to Rudd and a landslide to Abbott.”
there is a man who makes risky asessments
Vera, Ronnie and GG, the Amigos are forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vera
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 5:37 pm | Permalink
“Ron
Yes us gentle inoffensive types are loved by all
yes indeeds Vera ! ,
we models for this Thread
vera
She is obviously a good influence.
On another matter, Les Burdett the great curator of Adelaide Oval has retired after 41 years. He was internationally renowned as the best curator in the world.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/adelaide-oval-curator-les-burdett-announces-retirement/story-e6frea6u-1225827003074
Sounds like “Macca” has taken off the mask again.
Who is the curator of Veale Gardens?
While I agree Les Burdett is a “legend” – is he really retiring at 59? Or is he going to get his super tax free at 60, then return to his former role as a consultant?
… Well perhaps a little. I dunno how the crazies in Coalition-land haven’t done his head in by now.
Let’s hope he rewards them exhaustively in the coming months.
Ask Kristina to google it for you
Billy at 402
Not sure about Kevin Andrews, but both Abbott and Joyce (and Hockey and Pyne) – all Jesuit lads. Always been a very particular brand.
PY
I am sure it was not Robert Woodland.
Crikey, this is a great video. Watch it full screen and the best bit is right at the end!
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26682535-952,00.html
Truth hurts 428,
you might be able to help me here when all others i’ve asked have failed.
Apart from cutting immigration to a level below that of the previous government, what exactly has the government done to affect the 2050 population forecast?
ru
Bingo!
Yeah, what a turnaround from late November. He was so pleased with himself after his intimate negotiations with Penny and picked up a good deal of praise from a range of people on PB.
Just goes to show that most of these Coalition bods are pretty slippery and slimey creatures at heart and their true colours eventually come out!
That one was a bit quicker than usual though!
TruthHurts
“In dollar terms, the amount spent by both government and the private sector on infrastructure would need to increase by approximately $2.5 billion every year until 2050″
if your mob and Greens voted for , abd NOT against medi rebate etc legislat then there’s a 100 bill , so problam solved
Ron,
Yeah, I nearly fell of my chair when I read that bit of wisdom.
Why don’t you demand she be taken out of Italian and instead put in a class where she can receive more help with English?
I don’t give a shit who was in charge 3 years ago.
Labors in charge now. THEY are responsible for Australia’s immigration levels.
And they have cut them.
so now you can NOT use what howard ever did anymore
Truthy: Migrants = growth = prosperity. That was Howard’s policy, and it’s Rudd’s policy, and if you don’t like it you can always vote for the Greens.
And a wonderful job they are doing with it too.
I wished this rain would stop. I am over it. Too much water flowing into the street gutters and being washed out to sea.
SO
Eventually that’s what we did.
This is what MacFarlane said. He’s worked amicably and productively for months with these people in the Dept of CC and then he turns around and accuses them of deliberately distorting their analysis to produce an outcome the Govt desires.
464
Get rainwater tanks for everyone.h
Just like an increasing number of other people are doing.
Anyone who can an “h” in 466 needs their eyes checked.
Psephos is correct, and we need to continue increasing our population. What we need to do is introduce sustainabilty policies on resource use.
This is not what our governments are doing, or are doing albeit very slowly.
It’s ARTIFICIAL growth.
It’s a short term money grab to make property developers rich, while screwing over the life and lifestyles of millions of Australians
What’s it being washed out to see with?
Not water, I hope!
‘-)
Tom the first and best
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 6:12 pm | Permalink
“Anyone who can an “h” in 466 needs their eyes checked.”
could i say
“Anyone who can read antyhing in PY’s posts needs their eyes checked.”
Then you pay Billions to get the salt taken out of the exact same water, including the stuff from the sewage treatment plant.
All made with phantom “green power” sapped from the local coal fired power grid.
Yeah, I noticed that in the latest Morgan Poll results!
Oh, how we forget.
Have a guess who said this!
Signing a $69B export deal with China has made him a bit happier.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/06/2812195.htm
The Liberals almost doubled immigration levels, so you have absolutely no credibility on this or any other issue.
OK, so slow down in spreading so much bullshit else you will run out.
What bullshit are you talking about now?
And on that note I’m happy to report to everyone that YES… my household and it’s six air conditioners, large screen LCD TV and Home Theatre System is using exclusively Green Power only.
Yes you heard right, you see I am on the Queensland State Grid and somewhere 2000 miles away there is a wind farm or hydro plant creating MORE power than my single household is using. These Green Plants are connected to the Queensland State Grid, and as I am using less power than what these Green Power stations produce, I can make the same absolutely BULLSHIT Guarantee every other state government makes with their energy saping Desalination Plant and that is I am a 100% Green Powered Household.
As a Labor Party member for 30 years, my goal is not only for the Rudd government to be re-elected with at least the current majority, but also for the new Senate to have many fewer Senators who obstruct Labor’s legislation.
After 10 days of gushing laudatory newpaper coverage (the only time I can recall any Rudd Govt. action since The Apology being given frontpage, centrefold, opinion columns and editorial praise in the “Daily Telegraph”), why is it that support for the Government has not significantly increased in the most recent polls?
Is it because voters who do think MySchool is “sound” rate this as a lower voting priority than the new Coalition Leadership, or the alleged BIG new tax on everything, or our sacred soil being supposedly “flooded with illegal” boat people?
Or is it because there’s tens of thousands of teachers who might not be overly ecstatic to discover that the Party which they have supported against Howard governments for so many years has now taken an action that they consider (correctly or not) to be educationally unsound?
Or is it that the political benefit to Federal Labor from the MySchool initiative is more likely to be manifested “in the fullness of time”, as Sir Humphrey would say?
I am not discussing the educational merits or demerits MySchool here because my assumption is that the horse has bolted, but I am heeding Rudd’s admonition to Labor Caucus and Party supporters this week about the upcoming election .
By the way, given that many thousands of “BabyBoomer” teachers will soon be departing, there is no threat of job security threat involved with the MySchool for teachers. Whether MySchool will have a positive or negative impact on the appeal of the teaching profession for university students over the next few years is worth consideration.
That’s true. It’s such a pity that to harvest it we need to rebuild the entire stormwater system. I couldn’t imagine being in charge of a project like that, even if it was across only one city.
472
466 is a post by me. You need your eyes checked.
Crikey! You’d need to have a second job just to be able to afford the power bill!
Clive Palmer who just borrowed $8.6 billion from China.
Yep the use of Green Power is justification alone for running all that power.
Diogenes @ 476,
Classic! Not only does Palmer give us his hairstyle, he also does jokes.
Tom the first and best
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 6:22 pm | Permalink
472
“466 is a post by me. You need your eyes checked.”
and 472 is MY post
“could i say
“Anyone who can read antyhing in PY’s posts needs their eyes checked.”
[Yep the use of Green Power is justification alone for running all that power.
Only an idiot could think like that.
With so much Green Power floating about I could start my own desalination plant!
you hav enuf bull to do that already
Thats crap. Well maybe not crap if you want to save 100%. But there could be substantial savings of “flow-off” without too much difficulty at all. Tom mentioned tanks.
487
476 came across as referring to 466 as not my post. A simple “, such as 467,” (between “posts” and “needs”) would have cleared things up.
Truthy, high immigration is a bipartisan policy. This is just a fact and you can bluster about it all you like. Howard had record immigration levels, and in fact they’ve come down a bit under Rudd because of the contraction in employment caused by the GFC. But thanks to Howard we still have skills shortages, so when strong growth resumes we will go back to high immigration levels. As I said, if you don’t like this policy, you’ll have to vote Green. The Libs always resort to anti-immigration rhetoric in opposition but forget all about it as soon as they’re in government.
Of course continuing population growth brings problems with it, but in fact Australia is a sparsely populated country by world standards (even the closely settled parts). With better management of land and water, more investment in urban infrastructure like public transport and fast intercity rail links, and with greater housing density, this problem will be manageable. It must seen against the problem that would arise if we *didn’t* have population growth – rapid ageing and the consequent crisis in unaffordable spending on health and aged care. Take your pick.
With so much Idiot Power floating around The Idiot could start his own idiot plant.
yep only an i**** could think that i was being serious… Must resort to personals to phase me ah Shows…
Pity you can’t some independent thought.
What about the One Nation option
You’re with Ergon Energy, Truthy? How much does all that of yours use per annum?
http://www.ergon.com.au/home/electricity_for_your_home/
http://evolve.ergon.com.au/Portals/0/Clean%20Energy/Clean%20Energy%20Home%20Brochure.pdf
Not JUST that, the government around this time last year cut the immigration intake because of the expected rise in unemployment.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1011850/Government-to-cut-immigration-intake-to-preserve-jobs
The federal government should encourage government to rezone land to high density residential, especially areas close to public transport hubs. The Feds could give the states grants for each SQ KM of land it rezones to high density residential.
Compare -
And -
and again
Why does anyone listen to this man?
What about the One Idiot option?
If we did manage to capture storm water run-off there would be a lobby group complaining that a rare prawn would be endagered.
The Media would get some fisher folk to say the whole fishery was under threat and life as we know it was doomed.
An isolationist policy is always the way to go.. What next. As Psephos rightly explains to a degree we need to reduce our use of resources and
start living within our means. And we need to be more efficient in the way we do things.
High density is not exactly what all people want.. the Gold Coasts of this world look ugly and have significant affects on lifestyle.
I think medium density is a better option with perhaps cities close to cities with linked transport.
Please explain.
As you’re a boat person/immigrant, I’m surprised you’re anti this?
PY @ 491,
I wasn’t being sarcastic or spiky- that’s what I thought!
Also, once you start digging drains up for a couple of new connections, you’d be amazed at the breakages/tree roots/connections-not-as-the-plans-show that come to light. It’d cost.
But it would be bloody good once done
however, there would need to be a great change in people’s behaviour re drains. As the ad campaign some years ago said (at least in NSW) “…the drain is just for rain”.
And in a certain number of years (assuming it rains) it would pay for itself. I have no idea how long that might take.
Um, why?
This:
Contradicts this:
One resource we have that is finite is SPACE in metropolitan areas. So we must use it more efficiently by making more residential areas higher density.
This is too stupid to respond to.
Be more sustainable with our water, recycling should be introduced and stormwater harvesting… All new houses should be built with solar power
and more incentives provided for existing homes to be retrofitted with solar. More use of local produce should be adopted with people becoming more sustainable
in regards to buying produce. Greater requirement given to people in employment living near their place of living and for people to work at home or not to work short shifts so travelling to work is reduced. Moreover governments need to spend more on public transport and other vehicles which reduce carbon emissions.
This is just a start Ruawake.
That is one thing you have to give the Liberals, they pretty much destroyed “one nation”.
Did the good folk of Adelaide realise that the George Weston “flat bread” they consume is produced in Qld and trucked to SA?
Why, because the population of SA is too small to justify Tip Top establishing a plant.
Tom , i reely did thought I conveyed th post was yours , and then I altered it to give young PY a complement My precise english is normal a quite high standard here
I suggested medium density not high density, medium density would be some 6- 15 stories in height and be far more attractive than what occurs at the Gold Coast. Whilst i agree that we need to place people in pockets to encourage less resource use and to be more efficient with our resources, their is a flipside and that is the affect on amenity, noise, pollution, the strain on physical infrastructure…
About catching rainwater runoff. I agree it would be expensive and hard to achieve but was not that the same as sewage for our cities.
I think would have been a great infrastructure project/stimulus spending idea.
Something that was here for the future maybe?
New York has a population of 19 million in 17,400 km2
Marky why do you say the gold coasts of this world look ugly?
Do you think New York.London .Rio,etc look ugly at night?
I think all cities have their own charm but if you prefer the solar lights in your backyard good on you.
To each his own.
noidea,
It is one of the really positive infrastructure changes that can be made (and I’d accept sewerage systems also as really positive!), but it is a long term thing (in planning and in construction) that must involve all levels of Govt. Which alone would make it a logistical nightmare.
So, definitely a good thing, but with a high headache-factor.
459,
No need to get flustered. If you cant answer the question you cant answer the question.
509
Absorbed them more like.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs%40.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/1647509ef7e25faaca2568a900154b63?OpenDocument
Just so Truthy can keep an eye on it.
well if one is in 2010 planing for 2050 , wonder if any cost projects VS delsal altens etc over time been done , for building an addironal pipefpr all water ex homes from each new homes estates , to a new central pipe that then links to STD pipe to seas , so infra is there
guess alot of new homes & new busines will start over next 40 years in all oz cities , but maybe compare cost is killer
The Gold Coast is a city built on foredunes and reclaimed backswamp.
I don’t know the Gold Coast’s destiny, but I’m sure it won’t end well.
ru
It’s time to boycott it then due to the CO2 emissions from the transport.
A large part of The Netherlands is below sea level.
Kersebleptes
I agree but is this not a sad indictment of our times when a project like this would be knocked back because it was too hard.
Snowy mtn. scheme would still be a dream.
Yes indeed, ruawake.
But dykes don’t make for the best beachfronts.
I agree, but becuase of our small population it is cheaper to ship “bazaar” bread to Adelaide than to produce it there.
Where was the backswamp? Not from my sadly 50yr old memory
noidea,
Pretty well right. The WWII generation was used to piling into great big projects, without all of the multifarious repeated studies that are undertaken today.
But they got it wrong fairly often as well…
A lot of the land now west of the highway was swamp. Especially the canal development areas.
K
They’ve started building floating homes in Holland. Evidently it’s not as easy as it sounds.
Arrr………. poor truthy is having problems accepting the truth and Liberal policy.
Aren’t they called boats.
Diogenes,
Bloody oath it wouldn’t. I’ve only seen TV news stories on them, and I’m sure they’re very clever designs. But even in sheltered waters there’d have to be issues.
Canal developments might be the ideal places for them! Sylvania Floaters.
Didn’t Abbott have some involvement in an organisation designed to nuke one nation? My brain cell remembers slush funds from anonymous donors.
I haven’t eaten tip top bread for about 15 years.
Howard Mob being asleep at the wheel for 11.5 years is going to come back and bite us pretty hard with a potential shortage of teachers both good and bad and a growing population, enhanced at the younger end by the baby bonus, when the BB teachers start retiring en mass almost!
A similar problem is going to be apparent soon in our hospitals. The average age of nurses in Australia is somewhere in the vicinity of 56 years now and with a heap of BB Doctors and other medical specialists getting close to pulling the pin, Howard should be condemned for overseeing a “reduction” in training of these professionals!
Are the floating homes just the same as a floating pier only larger?
Ie. 4 poles with rings that rise & fall with the tide
The end according to a right wing mag.
Opps no link
http://www.australian-news.com.au/Hanson_trial.htm
Didn’t barney rubble & Sloppy Joe eschew borrowing any money from *Communist Red China* ?
There’s a big section on this shameful episode on Abbott’s Wikipedia piece.
ruawake,
That was Abbott’s most glorious moment in service to King Johnnie.
Our leader let a thousand flowers of racism bloom, but then had to call on Tony and his can of Roundup to clear the yard out (since the biggest flower was upsetting the electoral equilibrium in Queensland, or so Ron Boswell said).
Tone’s trust was “Australians for Honest Politics” maybe he needs to resurrect it?
K, noidea, fredn
Here’s an article in NPR on them.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18480769
Truthy http://www.australian-news.com.au really is for you. You can read it and hide from the truth, it won’t hurt you no more.
Kersebleptes
Our leader ?? Are you sure you don’t mean Dear Leader?
I would bet London to a brick you have eaten bread, made of flour, from George Weston Foods.
Diogenes,
The inevitable rise in sea level that comes with climate change is going to make it increasingly difficult to control flooding in low-lying Holland. But instead of cursing their fate, architects are designing a new Holland that will float on water, and the Dutch government seems willing to try out the scheme. Holland has made other countries begin to question, too. Who says you have to live on dry land?
A great example of a country willing to tackle it’s own problems.
None of this It’s to hard,expensive,computer modeling stuff.If the country is going to sink you fix the problem as best the country can{ not which political party might be able to fix it} and survive.
Is not survival in the long run all that really matters?
noidea,
What was I thinking?
The Man of Steel!
Diogenes
I am learning so that quote was your’s obviously
I mean posted by you
Just for Truthy’s edification Australia’s population is now estimated at 22,142,981
My brain has trouble reading some of the run-together nicknames that you see about nowadays.
When I see (for example) ruawake I can’t help but read “roo-a-wah-kee”; just as I see noidea but read “noy-dee-a”.
My limitation. No worries…
Discrimination at its worst.
Fairy Snuff.
Ruawake, according to the radar a bit of rain coming our way
Quick, Troothy, time to get the tinny out!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/asylum-seeker-boat-calls-for-help-off-christmas-island/story-e6frf7jo-1225827425894
These combatants are really getting serious now!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/whalers-sea-shephard-boats-collide/story-e6frf7jo-1225827422843
Fairy Snuff = Coke ?
PY,
gurgle chuckle snort!
is this not a stupid comment?
“(This is) preventing the transfer of slaughtered whales and effectively shutting down illegal whaling operations,” one campaigner said.
If the poor whale is allready dead how is this shutting down the whale operations?
Phooey! Ru will be lucky to get anything out of that!
On the other hand, if he lived in Northern NSW and Southern Qld he “could” expect to “really” get some rain!
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR663.loop.shtml#skip
No! He was suggesting thrill-killings against small supernatural flying creatures at the bottom of the garden.
Was Rockefeller into Fairy Snuff ?
This Sea Shepherd mob really do get off on making out they are the big saviour’s.
Really nothing more than cashed up wannabe’s.
scorpio
are we not in southern qld?
I agree, its a balmy 28, the ceiling fans are on, the humidity is high. Life is good.
my radar link must be faulty then!!
However, in Don’s country at Armidale, there won’t be a great rush on to buy raincoats or umbrellas.
If you’re around Don, what do you lot have to do to get a bit of rain down your way?
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR532.loop.shtml#skip
Can’t wait for Christmas Island to reach overflow capacity and see that lying bleeding heart Rudd eat his just deserts and open yet ANOTHER detention centre.
Remember folks… Howard was CLOSING detention centres… you can do that when you are stopping the flood of illegals. Now Rudd’s OPENING detention centres, putting more illegals and their kids behind the razor wire.
What has Malcolm Turnbull got to do with whales.
Interesting that the writer (or typist) of the Herald-Sun article scorpio linked used two apostrophes for their quote marks, instead of the normal ones on the very next key…
Why?
noidea,
No, probably not, but this picture doesn’t look anywhere near as good as the one I linked in 561!
Not for ruawake, anyway!
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR083.loop.shtml#skip
Who built Christmas Island?
Truthy one person every 71 seconds – get used to it.
Poor lighting conditions.
Failed the touch typing course.
It never rains in Coolum, its liquid sunshine.
Where, Troothy?
You idiot, the Christmas Island detention centre was built by the Howard government!
Distracted by something on tv?
Who OPENED Christmas Island??
You don’t need to open detention centres when you have stopped the boats coming.
Hows Labors plans to turn Christmas Island Detention centre into a Science Research Lab coming along by the way? The ALP Member who suggested that deserves cockiest-wanker of the Century Trophy and a Humble Pie as the prize.
ruawake,
God’s own country eh?
Were you kept in a detention centre when you arrived by boat, or did you manage to sneak past?
I remember reading many years ago that the two last regions of Australia to have been permanently colonised by Aboriginal peoples were 1) the central deserts, and 2) the Northern Highlands of NSW.
They must have known something!
Finger slipped because was using other hand to adjust clothing at the time.
LOL! The Idiot doesn’t realise that Howard didn’t stop the boats from coming! What an idiot!
rain on the way?
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/radar.jsp?lt=radar&lc=008&ane=1&anf=1&and=1&ana=7&anb=333&anc=3&lya=1&lyk=1&lye=1
Liquid gold is a lovely turn of phrase
If they’re suggestions re the two-apostrophes issue, I reckon it’s one of those little peculiarities that give their owners a small pulse of pleasure every time they use it.
It’s definitely more acceptable than pissing on a tree to mark your territory…
LOL!
Howard stopped the boats… the Labor Lefties are reeling at this little fact.
Gotta love it their absolute denial on the subject.
Hey Australia’s experiencing a 1500% increase in boatpeople because the worlds more unstable than it was between the years 2001 -2008!
Yes the lefties actually want us to believe that bullshit! LOLZ
#574, #575, #579 & #584
Just some (not an exhaustive list) of the possible reasons why:
Truthy 100 people every two hours – get used to it.
Or maybe 1200 people a day, does that put the piddle of boats into perspective? How about 8,400 a week – how many gulags for that amount.
I think if Truth Hater wasn’t a self loathing asylum seeker, he would be honest enough to admit at best (worst?) Howard’s policies merely pushed the problem onto other countries. The number of asylum seekers globally did not go down. In fact I daresay it went up, because of Howard invading Afghanistan and Iraq.
But hey, as long as they don’t make it to Australia, that’s all that counts.
Now that Truth Hater has made it in he wants to slam the door shut behind him.
Kersebleptes,
Here’s a classic example of what I mentioned earlier only, this time, the Hun uses a piece from AAP instead of a blog to stir up the natives. This is a similar way of doing it that the ABC uses!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tony-abbott-tells-kevin-rudd-to-bring-on-an-early-election-over-climate-change/comments-e6frf7jo-1225827099799
AND LOTS MORE GOOD COMMENTS!
So which boat did you arrive in Australia on? Should we alert the Department of Immigration to come pay you a visit?
Scorpio’ How’s the flood waters? Bushfires one season, Floods the next.
Gotta love QLD.
Howard turned the boats to planes!
Air travel gets more people here, more quickly.
Statistically, air travel is overwhelmingly more likely to bring in undercover terrorists.
Air travel is much more greenhouse-gas intensive.
Gotta love Howard, don’t you?
Look Howard did a lot of things wrong.
Stopping the boatpeople from jumping the queue was not one of them.
He stopped the boats. In 2001 there was 5500 boatpeople. In late 2001 he introduced the Pacific Solution… and the next year? 1 Boatperson.
Impressive stuff, a 99.99% decrease in boatpeople THANKS to tough laws that said Australia was tough on people smuggling.
Rudd’s done the opposite and put the “Open for Business” sign outfront and the boatpeople are now flooding in and the lies and excuses from the leftwing brigade get more and more desperate.
Well Truth Hurting, he obviously let at least one queue jumper in as evidenced by the fact you’re here? So which boat did you arrive on?
LOL! The Idiot doesn’t realise that 12176 people arrived here by boat under the Howard government, as usual he reverts to idiocy to conceal the fact he is an idiot.
Got to love The Idiot’s absolute idiocy on the subject.
Too right. 50,000+ illegals that have overstayed their visas. TTH took his eye off the ball again.
Truthy I thought you were out there in your tinny stopping these people.
How many arrived during the Pacific Solution period?
Kristina is a female. She does not lift her leg. She squats.
Females dogs do not usually “mark territory” as male dogs do, except when in heat.
However, Kristina does tend to be dominant and does “mark”, even though she has been neutered.
So what, it cost billions of bucks to “solve” a problem we did not have in the first place.
A new Australian every 71 seconds Truthy – get out you pen and pencil, take your socks off, or whatever. Who cares.
Look, The Idiot is an idiot.
Stopping The Idiot from jumping the queue was not one of them.
He didn’t stop the boats. In 2001 there was 5500 boatpeople, which demonstrates how big a failure Howard was. In late 2001 he introduced teh Pacific non-Solution… and by 2007 there was 148 suspected illegal entrants arrive on 5 boats.
THANKS to tough laws that coast billions of dollars, and that were repealed with the support of the Liberal and National parties.
I think KKK is ashamed of being a woman, hence her insistance on not using her first name in any of her online sites.
I see, so you arrived on a boat during the Pacific Solution period, Truth Hurting. Good for you. Did you get shipped off to Nauru or did you manage to sneak past the Navy?
If the latter, will definitely have to tip the Dept of Immigration to pay you a visit in Townsville.
scorpio,
Bloody hell. How many “button pushes” can a News writer pack into one short article?
The GBT; the ETS; “exploiting Australian jobs”(!); and “won’t call an election”. Well done!
The funny thing is, apart from the mention of Obama’s name, all of those comments are absolutely typical of comments on news.com
ever since Labor assumed Government! They haven’t changed a bit. Could almost be automatically generated…
Barra season opened Mid-day February 1st and the local lads are out in force trying to catch one.
The rain and floods really bring them on. I caught 14 in about two hours a while back!
With all the water rushing out to sea via the Fitzroy and Burdekin Rivers, the people in the MD catchment area must be close to tears!
Bet she realises that 71 seconds per new person makes boat arrivals irrelevant.
The same amount that arrived during the period 1997 – 1999, oh, except we didn’t pay a billion dollars for nothing. The Idiot has finally realised that Howard was a failure.
You do realise Rudd is now spending much more than Howard ever did during the Pacific Solution don’t you?
Christ the bloody detention centre Howard built had to be UPGRADED from 400 beds to 2200 because Rudd stuffed our illegal immigrants so bloody good and proper a centre that was completely empty is now overflowing.
The millions paid to Nauru and Manus was an investment… it stopped the boats therefore saving millions if not billions in the long run. Rudds gone and stuffed the whole thing up and now we’re paying for it through the nose.
Still waiting for the answer on which boat you arrived on Truth Hurting. Can ask as often as is needed!
C’mon folks, TTH was feeling neglected. He knows to get attention he just has to bring up refugees arriving by boat. He has had his ego stroked. Now back to the blog.
Bullshit.
http://illegals.weebly.com/
288 Boatpeople TOTAL for the Years 2002-2007
Now IDIOT, do you know how many boatpeople have arrived just this year?
560 Boatpeople IDIOT.
Rudd’s NO-Solution is a mega FAIL.
1) This is idiotic and wrong 2) if it was true, then you should support Rudd’s policies.
Correction, it was billions. If it was an investment, what did we get in return?
Wrong. In 2007, 148 people arrived. By your standards that means it failed.
Your idiocy means you keep ignoring the fact the Liberals and Nationals supported repealing Howard’s failed laws that let nearly 700 people in.
Great Scopio,
I’l be staying at the Clareview C/P for 2 weeks boat/esky/and drinkies ready for a good time.
Oh, that was no reference to Kristina.
Just a non-species-specific reference to putting oneself about…
The Idiot is an idiot.
Howards Pacific Solution = 288 Boatpeople over 6 YEARS
Rudd’s Bleeding Heart Solution = 560 Boatpeople over 1 month
Can the leftwing please stop your lies and excuses.
Howard did a lot of things wrong, this is not one of them. You will need to deal with this reality that the Pacific Solution STOPPED THE BOATS.
Look Truth, we know you’re an idiot, but it’s a little sad you’re calling yourself a “boatperson idiot”.
So which boat did you arrive on? We still really want to know.
And how long have you been a self loathing asylum seeker for?
Should i put a aussie flag and take my passport to prove i am not a boatperson arrival?
Well Truth Hurting, it obviously didn’t because you managed to sneak past.
Which boat did you arrive on?
Well, I’m off to Broughton Island for a while, tomorrow morning! Just off to get some ice now to pre-chill the icebox…
Can The Idiot please stop your idiocy?
The Idiot does everything wrong.
Who cares, its a few days of our population increase. It is costing squillions because the Rat Man played politics with it.
How bout you face up to the fact Rudd’s failed on border security.
You couldn’t write this stuff if you tried:
Howards Pacific Solution = 288 Boatpeople over 6 YEARS
Rudd’s Bleeding Heart Solution = 560 Boatpeople over 1 month
Just how much longer will it take the leftwing brigade before they finally admit the Pacific Solution WORKED?
The 50,000 here who have over stayed visas is a much bigger problem.
Is that what oldies use “ice” for?
Look Truthy … we have been through this … it hasn’t worked because you arrived in the country during this period. Still waiting for you to nominate the boat you arrived on. I’m patient, I can ask as often as needed.
K man
I’m assured that there will be a podcast of the debate. Here is a review of it from an IT guy. Caldicott cancelled and someone from the ACF replaced her.
This bit sums up a lot of the hard-line anti-nuclear activists. They are incredibly dogmatic almost to a religious degree and are totally impervious to new information. Their opinions were formed in their youth and they are not going to change them.
The idea of a total road block on nuclear power is almost insane given that we are the only G20 country not doing it. I’m happy for the to argue that we don’t need it, or it’s too expensive etc but to say we should never even consider it is small-minded and illogical.
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2010/02/thoughts-on-nuclear-debate.html
How bout The Idiot face up to the fact Howard failed on border security.
The Idiot can’t write even though he tries.
Howard’s Pacific non-Solution = billions of dollars wasted over 6 years.
Rudd’s humane solution = billions of dollars saved in just 1 month.
Just how much longer will it take The Idiot before he finally admits that he is an idiot?
truthy
Why do you have your gonads in a granny knot over boat arrivals? The numbers are trivial, the vast majority become valuable members of our society.
I think this is probably the most unedifying page in the history of Pollbludger.
Truthy
Howard built the detention centre on Christmas Island but Labor is increasing or has increased its capacity. It’s 97% full as you say. If it overflows the detainees will go to a detention centre in Darwin, which was also build by Howard.
I’ll be interested to see if detainees in Darwin become grist for the legal mill as we are frequently told by both Labor and the Libs as a reason for our off-shore processing at Xmas Island.
No, that would be the page where G.P. said he wanted the recession to be as long and deep as possible so a lot of people became unemployed, which would stop any future government from passing a stimulus package.
No I remember pages of waffle over the history of Isreal.
We are all in a holding pattern. Campaigning hasn’t actually started, when it does P.B. will be a lot more interesting.
How could Rudd be saving money you twit, he’s just spent another 1/4 BILLION DOLLARS upgrading Christmas Island Detention centre because of the flood of new arrivals.
Please stop your lies.
Kersebleptes,
What I often find funny is you see the “same” names posting the “same” comments on a heap of web sites, no matter “what” the subject, so there could be more to what you said there than you realise.
I have cut and pasted a sample of them from time to time here!
Why don’t you make a clean breast of things too Truthy and admit which boat you arrived on?
That’s what you think
I reckon this is week three of the current lib disinformation campaign
I fully expect more “dramas”
this election is going to be among the nastiest ever
Please stop being The Idiot.
Quantum@640
Was it this one ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2XfQo1YguY
So, there isn’t a Labor-Green senate which means if the government’s negotiations with the Greens over the CPRS come to fruition it still requires cross bench support to pass. If we know that floor-crossing Liberals from last year won’t support Greens-led changes to the existing bills, and if SenX is true to his talk in the Senate during the week that he wants the Frontier model, the question remains why is the government even bothering to neogtiate with the Greens? Why waste energy to get amendments that are unlikely to appeal to other cross bench senators? I’m not even considering Fielding or the Nats for obvious reasons.
Probably not, especially if you are referring to the Boxing Kangaroo flag.
Why is it that Australian politics is littered with aggressive overtones.
Why can’t we be known as a peace-loving nation.
Chill out folks.
Frank @ 643
Nice one Frank!
Well it certainly wasn’t this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_wFEB4Oxlo
According to Gary Bruce – every political action is based on it’s impact on the ballot box at the next election. There is no other consideration.
Accordingly, I would be looking at it from that perspective, to determine what Rudd is doing.
noidea,
Because it is fairly open and exposed there, it can be a bit of a dog for boating at times.
Camilla is not far away and is better for boating if it is too rough at Clairview and you should get some nice crabs there too!
It’s about 208 klms north of me.
confessions
It shows that Labor are acting in good faith if they negotiate with the Greens. And it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it could pass. X looks like a no, but he can surprise. I think Troeth will still cross the floor and vote for the new package so it will come down to either X or the other Lib who crossed last time (continually forget their name).
Maybe it was this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEmZ_A0UTrA
(Who else loves Charles Laughton?)
But maybe Truthy is thinking that the Boat People should be detained here ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX-pVhTZg0U
Truthy’s voyage to Australia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR7qxtgCgY
Diogenes,
Thanks for the update! The meeting summary is not unlike what I expected.
Some of it is arrogance, but I think more of it is just the extreme anxiety that results
when it is a decision we can’t afford to get wrong. Either way. No-one should shut their mind and just parrot on this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs
Are these the voters Truthy is trying to appeal to?
or this one
http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/watercraft/images/wab01_1b.gif
I won’t say it, but I sure had a lot of fun thinking about what part of PY’s clothing needed adjusting!!!
Or is this Truthy hard at work in his Tinny ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw
Me, he is great as the Southern Democrat in Advise & Consent, his last film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055728/
He also directed an amazing film called The Night of the Hunter:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048424/
HAHAHA!
Nice one Frank.
I think he is the construction worker?
Quantum #654
That “redneck” featured on the youtube video you linked to was a Hilary Clinton supporter “Hilary for President – Hilary all the way!”.
Figures.
Isn’t it PB’s The Three Amigos?
no this one
http://www.curlyflat.net/cartoons/L141099.gif
Never did things by halves, Laughton!
I haven’t seen the Brando/Howard one. But “Mr Bligh’s Bad Language” (good book) wasn’t all that complimentary about it…
K
If you have a group that literally defines itself by its opposition to something like Scientists Against Nuclear Energy (or Suspension Bridges) or anything, you immediately have a group that by definition will discount any new information and by definition has made its mind up not having heard the new evidence.
Any group that is so dogmatic has forfeited any pretense at being objective and should be treated as such.
I don’t think Truthy identifies with construction workers the same way I do.
But we both like them.
Senator Boyce? Can’t remember though.
Well I hope something concrete happens as a result of this and that the new package (if there is a new package) is supported by 2 floor crossers, whoever they may be.
Scorpio@425:
Mackerras:
Geez, there’s nothing to this prediction business, is there?
If that’s all that’s needed, we could all set up shop.
I don’t think Abbott is looking forward to parliament this week, because we will get to hear Turnbull make a speech supporting the CPRS:
Turnbull is even spouting Labor’s lines:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/turnbull-supports-emissions-scheme-20100206-njbn.html
Based on his Senate prediction he seems to be predicting a Rudd win with similar numbers to what Labor has now.
confessions
You are right, it was Boyce. Humphries decided not to in the end.
Frank
They had a story on this on triple j. It looks like an increasing problem. The fly in-fly out miners are increasingly unwelcome in the booming mining towns and the WA Govt needs to build up the towns so people live there and become part of the community.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/town-has-no-pity-for-fly-in-whingers/story-e6frg6nf-1225827296356
Turnbulls toast.
He’s yesterdays news. A has been and a consistant loser, a silver spoon elitist who is bitter he was tossed out on his arse.
The Idiot is idiot-toast.
Actually, I can tell you the real reason I hate Turnbull with a vengeance – and it really exemplifies the type of person he really is.
There was a doggy competition at a local fair. Turnbull and Lucy were the guest judges. Kristina was by far the cutest dog in the competition (IMHO). But guess who Turnbull awarded the prize to? A doggy that was entered by the wife of the financial sponsor of the event. Says it all really.
The fact that I wore a top hat – may not have helped Kristina’s chances…but geez, doesn’t he have a sense of humour?
No one cares about Turnbull.
He’s yesterdays news. Abbotts polling great against Labor since they tossed Silver-Spoon Turnbull out.
Inner City Latte Sipping Elitists will never gain government.
Ron@487:
While that is true, Ron, it is counterproductive. If we all ignore him, maybe he’ll go away.
That describes pretty much most of the Coalition since November 2007!
Reading some of the ‘comments’ to a story posted by Scropio earlier. The pain, spite, bitterness, fury and hatred of coalition supporters was palpable, even through the detached medium of the internet.
The pro- and anti-nuclear advocacy groups should make the decision easier for the rest of us. But we have to go through all of their stuff with a comb anyway.
There could be a good reason for Scientists Against Suspension Bridges to exist, however! I’m sure everyone has seen the incredible fall of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in the US many years ago, but if you missed it it’s all over YouTube.
Turnbull’s colossal ego does not permit him to be “bitter.” What he is is ANGRY and also VENGEFUL.
No one cares about The Idiot.
He’s yesterdays idiot. The new Idiot is polling like an idiot against Labor.
Now “this” is what you call boat people arrivals!
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/kylie-minogues-ancestor-died-at-the-gallows/story-e6freuy9-1225827278881
Don’t worry, the idiot will expel them all (including my grand mother).
Don,
It’s a bit like weather forcasting Don! “Rain otherwise, fine”! You can’t go wrong!
Don – #676
Keep on wishing.
But if you were up to speed, you would know that I have already announced my date of departure from PB.
After that date, it will only be special guest appearances.
Unfortunately Kylie’s GGG Grandmother didn’t make the standard required!
I hp[e you’ll forgive us if we don’t hold our breath in “breathless” anticipation of your “honoured” guest appearances?
scorpio – #686
Better that you don’t hold your breath. The number of breaths you have left, is rapidly decreasing. Don’t waste them.
Okay, that’ll do, ShowsOn.
A lot of the literature about narcissists says that they use other people as a source of self-satisfaction or “narcissistic supply” in the psychiatry jarjon. In other words, the main function of other people is to be a mirror saying back to them “Gee you really are wonderful!”. When the other person/mirror ceases to perform that function, they do what anyone does with a mirror that doesn’t reflect; they smash it.
Scorpio@568:
Scorp, I did a course a while ago about the Oz weather patterns.
At the end of it, I was more confused than when I started. Nothing new about that, I guess, but I couldn’t work out how we got any rain at all.
We are too far north for the winter rainfall patterns that bring rain to Perth, Adelaide, Hobart and Melbourne.
We are too far south to get anything out of the tail ends of cyclones – witness last week’s pathetic effort.
But still we get by. Every now and again a winter low travels too far north, and a summer cyclone tail end drops wet stuff on the patio, and we get the occasional thunder storm.
At the moment we are sitting pretty – the water tank is full, it overflowed again today after four or five ml of rain, I’ve hooked up every available roof surface, from the chook shed to the glass house to the newly installed garage (apart from the house itself), and the rain we’ve had has made the grass and weeds grow like crazy.
I spend half my time on the ride on keeping the grass under control. Place looks like a park, green sward and beautiful trees. The fruit trees and berries produced in plenty, the birds got half but the rest was ours, and more than enough. The veggie garden has never looked so good. Tomatoes, zucchini, snow peas, shallots, cucumbers (I make the world’s best pickled cucumbers) and beans, never sprayed and with not a blemish or grub. The wood ducks come through every few days and get rid of the snails.
Life is good.
Charles Laughton’s finest hour – all on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q_e61hgjPA&feature=related
So much for Saturday night.
PY,
I “may” fall off the perch before you (one can never be certain about these things, buses etc) but one thing “is” certain is that the same thing is happening to “you”!
The certainties of life, death & taxes!
I was looking forward to the return of Insiders tomorrow. I dont know why. Their first guest, why of course, Abbott. I’m boycotting.
Kersebleptes@571:
Mate, you’ve got too much time on your hands!
Kersebleptes@583:
So far as I am aware, the Aborigines never stayed here permanently. They used to come up the gorges where I now bushwalk, there were a couple of favourite ridges they used to use, and they came also from the western slopes, but they only stayed here for summer.
The tribes used to gather here in summer to trade, marry young people off, have meetings and dances and so on, but it was abandoned in winter.
Sometimes I can see why!
There are afternoons when you come home, bring in some wood, get a fire started, and slam the door.
But the air is like wine. A lovely part of the world, and with the world’s best bushwalking only twenty minutes away giving access to the thousands of kilometres of gorges east of here.
Don – #695
The definition of summer being 15 December to 15 January?
I seem to remember somebody on PB suggesting this earlier. If it was you, PY, you are too late!
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/property/stormwater-harvest-plan-for-sydney-suburbs/story-e6frezt0-1225826021386
don,
I know an ex-rugby coach, who told me of the visit of three Irish rugby types (think they may have been trainers, as opposed to representatives) to Australia in the early ’80s for a rugby camp.
They were off to “sunny Australia”, and gleefully packed their most tropical kit for the coming high-temperature sojourn.
The rugby camp in question was in Armidale, in the depths of winter. Apparently the poor trio were flitting about the place looking like confused beggars (wrapped up in as much borrowed gear as they could get hold of), saying “It never gets this cold at home!” over and over.
I don’t know if they ever came back…
PY@696:
When we first moved here in the 1970s, we used to set up the wading pool for the kids, they’d get a few days fun from it, and then we’d have to tip the water out when it got green, and pack it away for next “summer”.
We used to say “Summer came on a Tuesday this year!”
Now, we get weeks and weeks of very hot weather in summer. Global warming has a lot to answer for. We moved up here from Sydney because of the cooler climate.
Wouldn’t know it now. We’ve had twice or more the number of over 30 C days this summer compared with average.
Tony Abbott uses his weekly blog to tell a big heap of “porkies”!
Still, he can go to confession prior to going on Insiders tomorrow and everything will be ok!
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/
I love the way he responds to the nutters which his blog attracts in quantity. No challenging of their wild claims or correction, no just a polite encouragement!
Tony, you are shameless!
scorpio – #697
I am pleased, not disappointed, that I was too late. No one owns an idea. A good idea is still a good idea,whoever proposed it.
For the future of building in capital cities, you couldn’t go past the Surry Hills Library & Community Centre .
Doubt this building would ever have been built had there been a Labor controlled Sydney City Council, itself in turn a puppet of property developers.
But for Clover Moore defeating Labor’s grand plan in 2004, goodness knows where we would be today.
Kersebleptes@698:
I’ve made maps of my place (eight acres) with winter temperatures. One July it got to minus 14 C ground temperatures down in the orchard, where in winter there is no leaf cover.
I’ve had my wet socks freeze solid inside the tent when down the gorges. (you cross the rivers every few hundred metres on a gorges trip).
Had to thaw them out a bit over the stove so I could get them pliable enough to get on my feet.
The weekend AFR has drawn Barnyard Joyce as a Mule.
The AFR also highlighted some of Barnyard’s statements. The one where he didn’t know a billion from a block of flats and also the one where he said his relationship with Abbott was open but not sexual.
Why state such a thing, who is going to think it anyway? Under what cicrumstances would you bother deny such a thing? Why would it even come into your brain to say such a thing? Freud wants to know.
TP,
That’s a bit insulting to mules. Donkeys even!
You know the old saying, “better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it”!
Nobody has thought to mention it to Barnyard!
In rep;y to a commenter who posted a great big heap of tosh, Abbott added his own bit.
I bet most of the teachers in NSW would love to be on $80k per year!
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/
Psephos
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 9:12 pm | Permalink
#633
“I think this is probably the most unedifying page in the history of Pollbludger.”
Agree
What with Troothy & boat people , Show Off calling him idiot in a dozen posts , and PY
All we needed was Bob 123456 to complete a Circus Company
After struggling all day. in the last two hours of trade the Dow Jones went from -1.6% to +0.10% It seems for no other reason than, because it can.
The markets respond to the most trivial bits of information each day, like they never envisaged the data before. Like these guys never sit down and think to themselves, yes the US economy is ferked for a while. So why do the market shoots up because something suggests the economy is slightly less terrible than it was 5 minutes ago. And the next morning there will be some data that suggest the terribleness level is a little more terrible than 5 minutes ago and there will be a big drop.
The problem is these guys are traders…they just cant not trade something, anything, on any excuse. These guys would all jump on the Titanic afraid they will miss the latest boat.
This is fairly convincing proof that the blog is “editoralised” and that comments that are too anti Abbott’s post, generally don’t get a run!
Abbott’s reply;
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/
Abbott’s blog is a good place to look for clangers as he often makes one or two here!
The U.S. jobs data, unemployment down from 10.0 to 9.7%:
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/us-jobs-data-sends-mixed-signals-about-us-recovery/story-e6frfku0-1225827326081
The reduction was due to a fall in the participation rate though. They actually lost another 20,000 jobs in January, but a heap of people gave up looking.
last nite i watched a 3.5 hr movie on/abut Richard Nixon , his whole political career Starred Anthony Hopkins , on cable old movie but seemed pretty close to histary except maybe Castro/CIA bit
worth seeing if can
3.5 Hrs of Anthony Hopkins and you didn’t fall asleep?
Ron, I note and commend the improvement in your spelling. (Positive reinforcement!)
I’m afraid Anthony Hopkins will always be Hannibal Lecter for me. When I saw him in Remains of the Day I kept expecting him to bite somebody.
was an excellent movie on that polly period You may enjoy it
As good as Frost/Nixon? That would be hard to top.
Maybe the Circus Company is better entertainment than the Four Amigos.
This makes no sense! There are three mistakes in the first three words!
Psephos,
I hope somebody in your neck of the woods monitors Abbott’s weekly blog in the Tele!
There are regular clangers dropped there because he usually replies in a hurry and doesn’t have as much time to think about the replies as he would probably like!
Ron is the biggest clown here, always has been.
How is that different from, say, parliament?
Yeh I saw that, but really that is not excuse for such dramatic shift. One figure, which may get revised later, should be expected in any case. blips up and down. And all around them there are these foreboding signals about Spain, Portugal, Greece. Also the borrowing of Americans continuing to fall and their savings rate increasing doesn’t bode well for a return to ‘normal’ consumer activity. Do these people need a traffic sign, ‘caution, dip ahead’ or slow down, road under repair.
This is a brilliant Oliver Stone biopic from 15 years ago when Hopkins was at the peak of his craft. As compelling as the political scenes are during Nixon’s Watergate demise, I found some of the scenes with Nixon’s wife, Pat (fine performance by Joan Allen) are almost too painful to watch. Strong supporting cast, especially James Woods as H.R. Haldeman and Paul Sorvino as Kissinger.
Shows
A bit of envy showing there.
Ronster,
Beware matriarchs bearing cats
Psephos
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 11:40 pm | Permalink
“As good as Frost/Nixon? That would be hard to top.”
yes saw Frost , you was great
this was brutal asessment of th man and his politcs from pre Kennedy to/incl Watergate & to his resign , and up into helacopter off in disgrace
Abbott doesn’t make any sense at all
Then he says this:
So what is it, costs capped at $3.2 billion, or $10 billion? It is either one or the other.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/
It’s better than usual. One rewards improvement, not perfection.
Every word Abbott utters is monitored and logged.
Psephos,
I thought Frost/Nixon was superb also, but “Nixon” is a different genre than the battle of wits between two wily customers.
he was great
Can somebody help please.?
I’m in semi darkness here, bumped & dropped my keyboard and now the whole screen is filled up with PB.
Does anyone know how to get it back to normal!
Press the escape key. If that doesn’t work, press the any key.
At whose expense?
a. The taxpayer?
b. The Australian Labor Party?
c. The Liberal Party?
If you get thirsty, press the TAB key.
Scorps,
“ESC” upper left key?
Poor beggars!
Still, it would have to be better than monitoring and logging Barnyards!
And Greece was lying about its debt as well. Third parties found another $50bn debt that was not included in Greece’s official data. Krugman reckons Greece isn’t the main problem, it is Spain.
And if the bail out Greece they will have to do the same for Spain and Portugal at some stage.
Europe so ‘they’ say could be set for a double dip recession with further flight to the US dollar.
I wont be at all surprised to see the Dow take a 5% dip over the next few weeks.
Also Hemingway , Edward g Marshall as Mitchell
Malcolm Turnbull pays for it himself:
Tried Esc. Didn’t work.
Where’s the “any” key, please?
How did Spain kill their budget? Massive subsidies?
ROTFLMAO
A cashed up wannabe.
Show Off
now you ar part of 4 man comedy Company , with Troothy , PY and Bob 123456
what we can do is give your first billing , like starring ….
LOL!!!
I got my screen back to normal, thanks. It was either F11 or F12 that did the trick!
http://www.vexnews.com/news/7816/the-wilderness-years-malcolm-turnbull-sets-up-leaders-office-in-exile/
b.
The dishonesty and corruption of the former conservative government in Greece that is now being revealed is pretty shocking even by Greek standards. Karamanlis will probably finish up not just out of office but in jail. Papandreou is now going to have to break all his election promises because all the money will have to go to debt repayment.
740
Building boom to building bust.
Spain is also has a bigger budget than Greece and Portugal combined because it is bigger in population and economy.
Still can’t find that “any” key though!
Well, he can turn it into a positive by creating a proper progressive taxation system.
Keep looking!
#744
Oh don’t forget the historical cost – $600,000*** he personally spent (not the Liberal Party) to win the seat in 2004 ( a seat that incidentally has never, up until 2010 been held by any party other than the Liberal Party).
*** Approximately, I’ll check for the correct figure and post later.
Show Off
dont tempt me
comedy company was lite
could hav gone for
Idiot and his 3 apprentises
Bumble and his bumbl bees
Stooge and th 3 lesser stooges
And Van Onselen reckons if Turnbull votes with the Govt on the ETs that he is gooooone!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/government-finds-climate-changed/story-e6frg6zo-1225827282192
Wentworth elected an independent in 1929.
Thus proving that PvO is a fool as well as a Liberal stooge. Crossing the floor will show Turnbull to be the only person of principle in the Liberal Party, in the Reps anyway. After Abbott gets thrashed at the elections Turnbull will be completely vindicated.
well can keep going Show Off
english is just start of combinatons available
Yeah, thanks a lot!
I might just find it under my pillow!
“After Abbott gets thrashed at the elections Turnbull will be completely vindicated.”
yes , and prob elected leader
#753.
No doubt you would be right. However, I have an entirely accidental escape hatch – viz I said ” held by any party other than the Liberal Party” – so are both rIGHt and neither of us is wRONg.
Thats a bit low even for your current efforts Shows off!
Psephos,
That piece by VO is nearly as bad as Shanner’s latest effort which is right down there with some of his worst efforts.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/ets-costs-remain-a-mystery-to-labor/story-e6frg6zo-1225827292925
It may well be Penny Wongs talks to Greens is
1/ showing faith/prepares to try to compromise and so so cannot be accused of not , and 2/ open door for greens to suport ETS should just 1 libs cross floor , or 2 if mr x deserts
PVO’s most hilarious article of late was the one that ended with this:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/abbott-should-keep-himself-pure-with-a-vow-of-silence/story-e6frg6zo-1225824150940
How is this an opinion piece? It sounds like a piece of Liberal party campaigning.
Christian Kerr cops one right between the eyes by a commenter named “Fed Up”,on his blog giving Lord Monkton a leg up!
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/houserules/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_lord_of_the_climate_scpetics_comes_to_town/
PY, I didn’t say you were wrong. I just made an observation. You are correct that Labor has never won Wentworth. However if you want to get technical the Liberal Party has only existed since 1944, so the earlier members belonged to other anti-Labor parties. (Free Trade 1901-06, Anti-Socialist 1906-09, Commonwealth Liberal 1909-16, Nationalist 1916-29, United Australia 1931-44.)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704533204575046613394014150.html
$609,201.47
Thats the amount Turnbull spent of his own money in 2004, according to his Electiion Funding Return.
I think it will be HARDER for the Liberals to win the election following the one held this year. Why? Well, by 2013 the budget will either be back in surplus, or very close to it. The CPRS, or something very similar to it, will be legislated if Labor wins a second term.
So what the hell are the Liberals going to campaign on? They can’t really campaign on debt if the budget is in surplus (what are they going to do, promise to cut government spending faster?) and their fake climate policy will be completely irrelevant with a proper policy legislated and businesses adapting to it.
LOL! The 7:30 Report called him a mathematician. Did they fall for his crap?
They need to get their act together.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/05/spain-bid-calm-turmoil
# 765
Damn I anticipated you might say that, so I thought up this escape hatch – Liberal Party is understood to mean the Liberal Party as it is today plus all previous re-incarnations of it.
ShowsOn, can you please cut back on the abuse, and generally be less of a dick.
scorpio
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 12:22 am | Permalink
“Christian Kerr cops one right between the eyes by a commenter named “Fed Up”,on his blog giving Lord Monkton a leg up! ”
Scorp , it gets worser
this deniest got Nat Press Club time , 1.5 hrs
telvised by APAC , so goodness how many people he confused
Like I was saying earlier, Abbott tells some big porkies on his blog. I don’t know how he thinks he can get away with this one?
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/
Ron,
I like you so much I will provide some ammunition you may use against me.
Ron,
Over 300 at the Press Club alone, Ron. I’ve seen a heap of comments on media pieces which covered Monkton and there are sure a lot of them that think he is some sort of anti-climate change guru who has all the answers.
Both were proven long ago
ah th comedy Company strikes back at me ,
with a pebble
How about this looloo
Peter Young
Posted Saturday, February 6, 2010 at 8:39 pm | Permalink
“ #574, #575, #579 & #584
Just some (not an exhaustive list) of the possible reasons why”
now all 4 posts were by PY
He is not just bloging to himself ,
but 4 times at one times
The Sunday Telegraph has more on the Robertson by-election with an article Belinda Neal says – up yours, Mr Rudd and an editorial Belinda Neal just won’t yield
oops – by-election should read pre-selection
Scorp
biggest issue Monkton has failed to do nor presured to do is to put up a model that contradicts massive volumes of IPPCCC models all pointing to 1 anwser , on a 95% level of certaint complied by 4,000 scientists from 135 contries
so why he gets any exposure i do not know , he may as well be sayin world is flat
Another broken hearted Lib supporter desperate to see them back in Government!
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/yoursay/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/time_to_come_clean_on_rudds_ets/in_translation/P20/
Ron,
That’s basically what he is doing, Ron and so-called intelligent people fall for it!
Don’t expect him to put up any “evidence” to support his wild claims. That would only expose him as the charlatan that he is because that would be easier to refute than his multitude of wild, conspiracy theories!
Just thinking about all the rusted on Labor supporters who complain about real climate change from their own experiences, but continue to support Labor’s “political solution” to the physical problem of climate change, in preference to the Greens real action plan to confront the problem.
It leaves me wondering………
Scorp
whereas Abbott , a deniest has framed a CC polisy a deniest would creat , ie no ETS or even a carbon tax
his problam will come in electon , espec in a Debate as Rudd will call for him to make an unqualified answer , his answer will be nuansed
but voters can suss that out a mile away , that was Lathams issue , in part , pretending to be what he was not
Morgan Stanley predicts another 21% drop in the USA share market over remainder of this year. This would flow on to Australian markets.
Nice “get”, PY!
Now that she has spat in the face of Rudd and Abbott has jumped all over it, I would think that any chance she had of hanging in there has been shot to bits now!
Her arrogant, big mouth has been her undoing!
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/belinda-neal-says-up-yours-mr-rudd/story-e6frewt0-1225827411393
The DT can’t get anything right. Darren Jameson will not be challenging Neal in the Robertson ALP pre-selection – he’s the Liberal candidate!
Looks like my roll-over is going to cop another savage hit! I was hoping it would hold on and make up at least a bit of ground before I rip it out later in the year.
I have to wait till then to avoid paying tax on it. I turn 60 in Scorpio time.
Stupid things like accuracy in reporting don’t mean anything any more, didn’t you know?
It’s the “beat-up” that counts!
So what are the true facts regarding Neal and counselling -if it is a beat up (a little sloppily presented.
1. Did Rudd request or rewuire her to attend anger management counselling?
2. She says she didn’t attend counselling.
Why did she allow all the media reports at the time that she had attended anger management counselling to go un-corrected?
Psephos
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 1:13 am | Permalink
She is expected to be challenged when nominations open tomorrow by local mother of three Deb O’Neill, considered to be her main threat, and 20-year police veteran Darren Jameson.
“The DT can’t get anything right. Darren Jameson will not be challenging Neal in the Robertson ALP pre-selection – he’s the Liberal candidate!”
hope they got Deb O’Neill standing rite , Labor vote expect would be higher
rewuire = require
Mmmm.We’ll have to wait and see, won’t we!
I bet he does ask her and I bet he will not be a happy chappy when he does.
I think a lot more people will think that after the latest revelations!
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/belinda-neal-just-wont-yield/story-e6frezz0-1225827414975
scorpio,
On the internet no one knows if you’re a dog
http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-dog-pictures-dog-cannot-find-the-any-key.jpg
Bed for me, night all!
Ron -
According to all media reports Deb O’Neill is standing. Rudd’s endorsement of Neale was lukewarm. Sussex Street has been reported as backing O’Neille. Suggestions that there won’t be a vote – because a challenger will be tapped on the shoulder to stand aside – as happened in the Altona pre-selection are there – but if it is true Sussex St are backing O’Neille is true – they wont be tapping O’Neille on the shoulder. To avoid “unpleasantness” Sussex St might tap Neal on the shoulder – and these media reports might just be head office back grounded articles to apply a bit of pressure to Neal.
VP,
Just caught your post in time. At least I’m not the only silly basket who can’t find the “any” key.
That dog looks a bit like Tony Abbott when Rudd gets under his skin!
yea me too Scorp
nite all
There’s always the old fall-back!
Health reasons!
Bed awaits!
Neal appears to be right that the assertion that Rudd told her to get anger management counselling is a media invention.
A Google search shows that in all the media reports from 2008 Rudd is quoted as saying: “She has indicated that, as a result of our conversation, she’ll be actively receiving counselling to assist in her management of her relationships with other people.” The term “anger management” is used by journalists, but is never attributed to Rudd in a direct quotation.
So if Rudd didn’t use the expression “anger management,” just the expression “counselling”, and if Neal did get counselling as she says, this is another Murdoch press beat-up.
Psephos – #800
My outstanding questions – if at the time it was a media beat-up that Rudd had asked her to get anger management counselling – are:-
a. Why Neal didn’t seek to correct those media reports
b. Why she did not seek to correct later media reports, from memory, that she was attending, or had completed a course in anger management.
Though I better check the e-mails before bed and spotted this. A good one for the Pbers who stay up late and the early risers.
There was no sense in making comments that would give the story oxygen.
Another media beat-up?
The Sunday Telegraph editorial also contains this:
DESPITE its undeniable success among parents and many teachers, there has been repeated criticism of the Federal Government’s My School website by the education union, the Greens and assorted political opportunists.
The criticism centres on a belief that it would shame and harm low-income or needy schools.
The site’s architect, Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard, has long argued that the opposite would be true. Yesterday, she confirmed to The Sunday Telegraph that her words would be matched by action.
As we reveal today, Ms Gillard will use My School information to target schools that really need help by funding a longer school day for disadvantaged students, involving breakfast clubs (to ensure disadvantaged kids eat properly before classes) and after-school activities, as well as employing specialist literacy coaches and extra teachers. </i"
I am not sure how the information presently presented on MySchool and accessed by parents provides information which pinpoints (and was not otherwise available) those schools needing-
a. Breakfast clubs
b. Specialist literacy coaches
c. Extra teachers.
Maybe a specialist educator could explain it.
oops – the quote should end at “as well as employing specialist literacy coaches and extra teachers” . The words after that are my own. I tried but stuffed up the closing bracket, inserting an inverted comma instead.
It’s obviously time little white dogs went and curled up in their baskets.
*gone*
Actually, it looks like my memory was wrong, and clearly I was relying on impressions memory rather than detailed memory when I queried why Neal had not corrected the media in 2008.
An article by Brad Norington in Australian newspaper on 4 September 2008, Federal MP has learnt nothing contains this:-
Neal appears not to think she has a problem. Yesterday, she dismissed the idea her counselling was for anger management as “media creation”. She said she undertook such sessions to help things move on, suggesting it has been a charade to help get the issue off the public agenda.
Further to correct the record, an article by Brad Norrington in The Australian on 4 September 2008, Neal cleared by police, but not by PM
A spokesman for the Prime Minister said: “The Member for Robertson, like all MPs, must in the future maintain the higher standards of behaviour expected of all members.
“Ms Neal’s future in politics, like all other MPs, depends on the member’s capacity to meet the standard of behaviour expected by the Australian public.”
Mr Rudd’s office also issued a reminder that the Prime Minister had directed Ms Neal to undergo counselling to correct a “pattern of unacceptable behaviour” before the Iguanas matter was referred to police.
“Ms Neal has confirmed she has both carried out and benefited from the counselling,” his spokesman said.
But Ms Neal dismissed suggestions that Mr Rudd had referred her to professional counselling for anger management, instead blaming the media.
“There was never any discussion about anger management or agreement between myself and the Prime Minister,” she said.
“That is a creation of the media. What was agreed is that I would attend counselling to learn how to deal better with people. That I have done.
“The reason that I undertook counselling was to ensure that matters could move on and that we could deal properly with the important issues, which is the parliamentary agenda of this government.”
re: The Sunday Telegraph story on Belinda Neal.
The essence of the story is:-
Belinda Neal was ordered by Kevin Rudd to attend ‘anger management’ counselling, that she did not attend anger management counselling but only ‘dealing with people better’ counselling, and this shows a defiant attitude – of disobedience on her part to the PM’s “orders”.
Belinda Neal says the suggestion she was required to attend “anger management” counselling is a media beat up, as she was only required to attend counselling (which she did).
So the whole story may turn on what the PM required her to do – whether it was to attend “anger management” counselling or just “counselling”, what ever were the exact words he used what he intended, and whether in fact there is a difference between “anger management” counselling and counselling. Likewise, it could be said that a layman is not in a position to determine what type of counselling a person requires, that is a job for the professional counsellor e.g. if a person has a problem arising out of some behaviour, he/she seeks help for the problem, the counsellor then decides what is causing the problem and the appropriate treatment that might address it, e.g. alcohol, anger management, relationship etc.
Whatever, the exact requirement of the PM – the media almost universally referred to him having required Ms Neal to attend “anger management” counselling after the PM made the announcement on 11 June 2008. This continual reference to anger management counselling appears to have gone un-corrected by either the PM or Belinda Neal until at least the 3rd September 2008, the day Ms Neal was cleared by the Police of any charges arising out of the Iguana nite club incident. On that day Ms Neal claimed the requirement to attend anger management counselling was a beat up, but in accordance with the PM’s wishes, she attended counselling learn how to deal better with people.
Going back to 11 June 2008 the first report seems to be from Emily Bourke on ABC PM program -
From Japan, Kevin Rudd has told his MP to get counselling for what he called an unacceptable pattern of behaviour. For her part, Ms Neal has admitted she needs counselling, but says she does not know what pattern of behaviour Mr Rudd is so concerned about.
The ABC Premium News reported:
Mr Rudd has interrupted his visit to Japan to remind Ms Neal of her obligations.
“There appears to be a pattern of unacceptable behaviour here,” he said.
“She’s indicated as a result of our conversation that she’ll actually be seeking counselling to assist in her own management of her relationships with other people.
“I’ve also reminded Ms Neal that none of us are guaranteed a future in politics.”
ABC Premium News also reported Ms Neal as saying:-
“It’s been agreed between myself and Kevin, because obviously it’s very important that MPs are dealing appropriately with members of the public at all times,” she said.
“Sometimes if you’re not especially careful, that can be misinterpreted.
“Kevin and I have agreed that I will be attending counselling to learn how to deal in a way with conflict with other people that reduces it, rather than causes anything to get any worse.”
An AAP report that day was issued under the heading:
Fed: Rudd sends Neal to anger management which included this:
Mr Rudd said given Ms Neal’s “pattern of unacceptable behaviour”, she would be seeking counselling.
Ms Neal today agreed she needed help “to deal with how I deal with conflict with other people”.
She again denied swearing at staff at Iguanas Waterfront Bar in Gosford, in her electorate of Robertson, and rejected claims she had threatened their jobs.
However, she admitted an argument with staff at the nightclub last Friday night went on too long.
“Obviously as a member of parliament you can be in situations where a conflict can occur,” she told Macquarie Radio.
“And, of course you need to have the skills available to you to reduce that. That’s obviously the objective of this counselling.”
Ms Neal said counselling would help her “decelerate conflict” and she would begin as soon as possible.
……..
Faced with the mounting allegations of inappropriate behaviour, Mr Rudd today stepped into the controversy and phoned Ms Neal from Japan to talk about her behaviour.
“She’s indicated that she’ll be seeking counselling to assist in her own management of her relationship with other people,” Mr Rudd told reporters in Tokyo.
But Mr Rudd also issued a warning to Ms Neal, who could be stripped of her Labor endorsement.
“No-one, I repeat no-one, is guaranteed a future in politics and that goes for all our members of parliament.”
On 12 June 2008 The mercury reported with heagline Rudd disciplines bar row MP which included:
However, she admitted an argument with staff at the nightclub last Friday night went on too long.
“Obviously as a member of Parliament you can be in situations where a conflict can occur,” she told Macquarie Radio.
“And, of course, you need to have the skills available to you to reduce that. That’s obviously the objective of this counselling.”
Other newspapers on 12 June 2008 had headlines such as:
RAGING BELINDA – Angry? Me? Rudd sends Neal to counselling Daily Telegraph
Control your temper or I’ll kick you out – Rudd interrupts trip to carpet fiery MP – Courier Mail
Get counselling, Rudd tells MP Canberra Times
Neal to get anger counselling The Australian
Besieged MP told to get counselling The Age
Angry MP warned: Get help or else The Advertiser
Now the PM orders anger management; Belinda Neal is explosive with her husband. She keeps a list of enemies in her freezer. Sydney Morning Herald.
In the weeks after 12 June 2008, the majority of references to Ms Neal were to her attending anger management counselling, although some reports just referred to counselling.
And I wasn’t even here Adam. What a shame.
Thomas Paine…something to have with your corn flakes this morning…Speaking of the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/business/economy/07gret.html
The article is poorly written, but what say the Green supporters about this:
http://www.vexnews.com/news/8100/slur-greens-party-councillors-racial-attack-could-see-him-sacked/
It would seem that opposition to an ETS is not the only thing that binds the mad liberal right and the Greens.
It’s very curious see Rudd’s ignore strategy re:Abbott compared to the more direct attack on Howard. He doesnt seem rattled at all. It seems everyone is just waiting for Abbott with Joyce’s help implodes.
The year has barely started and they have to find more than $3b in savings to fund their climate plan to fix the climate problem that Abbott thinks is crap. They would have secured the base just as well by saying, we are not taking action until the science is conclusive and the rest of the world has legally binding targets. Now that have to find massive savings BEFORE spending on anything else.
Do they expect the public to believe that their plan is better?? Where in the world has this strategy been pursued and why is everyone having an ETS??
re: “Counselling” vs “Anger management counselling”
On the 11 June 2008 the PM made the announcement about his discussions with Ms Neal.
After that, the media largely reported it as a requirement that Ms Neal attend “anger management counselling”, even though the PM referred to it as “counselling” in all the articles I have been able to find.
Five days later PM Rudd appeared on the 7.30 Report, interviewed by Kerry O’Brien. Towards the end of the interview the subject of Ms Neal was raised:-
KERRY O’BRIEN: Okay, with the time that’s left, the brief time left, Belinda Neal’s nightclub experience. If there happens to be an adverse police finding with regard to the integrity of her actions after that incident, what range of actions is open to you and does that include expelling Belinda Neal from the Labor Party?
KEVIN RUDD: Kerry, first things first, it’s called due process. There is a police investigation under way and everyone should await its outcome. I think that’s very important. And apart from the histrionics of the Opposition in Parliament today, the key thing is that this investigation is on and it should be allowed to proceed unmolested.
I noticed when one was on last year, the Liberals unleashed one of their own to rip into the police for daring to conduct such an investigation.
The second point is this, I have said very clearly both to Ms Neal and in my subsequent public remarks that nobody, repeat nobody, is guaranteed of a future in politics. We are expected to do our job properly. I’ve said before in the case of Ms Neal there appeared to be a pattern of unacceptable behaviour. We’ve agreed that she has a course of counselling to undergo. Let’s wait to see what happens with the police investigation. But I repeat; none of us has a guaranteed future in politics.
Once again the PM referred to it as “counselling”, even though his media monitoring unit and his minders must have been aware that the media were reporting it generally as “anger management counselling” .
I for one, was left with an impression memory that Neal had been ordered to attend anger management counselling.
One wonders why the PM did not correct the record about “anger management counselling” on the 7.30 Report. Perhaps there are reasons why he didn’t:
1. There wasn’t time to do so.
2. The Rudd minders did not appreciate the subtle distinction between “anger management counselling” and “counselling”.
3. The Rudd minders did appreciate the difference, but elected to allow the false impression to remain at large because it was politically better – the community were hungry to see Neal attend anger management counselling and the false impression met that demand, despite the actual real arrangements between Rudd and Neal.
The end result is that 18 months later, the Sunday Telegraph has run an article and an editorial attacking Neal which have as their foundation stone the proposition that Neal was required to attend “anger management counselling”, not “counselling” as she did.
Hindsight is usually 100% accurate, however highly paid minders are expected to have a high degree of foresight.
fredn – #812
I haven’t even bothered to open the link. I saw the url. VexNews. Would it be worth my while opening the link? I doubt it.
Peter Young.
Reading the rest of there stuff, probable not, they really are a bunch of ratbags. But I am interested; was he really that stupid.
Crystal balls are in short supply.
Probably about as useful as reading your diatribes on Neal Peter.
Peter Young at 814
Potentially #4. If the government corrected every media inaccuracy, I doubt that it would have the time to govern.
Gary Bruce
If it wasn’t for my “diatribes” you would never have anything to say. You simply post one liner retorts.
I can’t recall you ever putting forward one fact, one idea or one proposition. It’s just negative carping.
820 Peter Young – you haven’t read everything I’ve written.
I don’t need the need to copy and paste large amounts here. I supply a statement or opinion and link the info. Do you know how to “link” Peter?
Should read -
I don’t see the need to copy and paste large amounts here.
#821 Gary Bruce
Obviously not. It must be a long time between drinks though.
Try yesterday Peter.
Gary Bruce
I know how to link to items which available on the web .
When I source things from non-web articles, I cut and paste the relevant bits.
Hi Andrew. AI agree why not go over to crickey or the ALP new site and the turnbull one and post this.
I think this blog is just for people who talk amoung them selves.
Ah? So you have articles on your computer not from the web on Belinda Neal?
#828
Absolute crap.
Do you collect newspaper articles on Belinda Neal Peter?
A yes or no would have done. They were questions not statements.
Where did you source the post 814 Rudd interview Peter?
Seems to me like Peter Young has a problem with Labor women in particular?
Are you concerned that they didn’t keep their “sacred gifts” until marriage, Peter? Tony Abbott may be the candidate you’re looking for, if so.
Where did you get this article from Peter?
From a proprietary source. It is not available to the general web user. However, it is available to university students via the Library which can be accessed from home.
Macbeth: Act 3 scene 2 (7-9)
Come, Scorpio #772 … Jesuit OBs Tone, Barnaby, Joe & Chrissy are the best Political + Shakesperean Tragic’s assignment/ paper fodder since … well, Sweet William was still writing! ‘Twas different while Howard was PM & only Tone’s attempts to force his own moral perspectives on all Aussies (RU 486, Stem cell research bans) were the real indicators. But since Tony “Weathervane’s” Coup and his Front Bench mate’s verbal gyrations on CC policy, it’s been an argumentative OzPol tragic’s delighted bonanza!
Just keep remembering (and citing to others) the Great Will’s famous take on the Jesuit trials before & after the Gunpowder Plot (Guy Fawkes 1605)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth#Date_and_text
Barnaby went to the same Jesuit college as Tony, and Will even has a line or so for him
PS Obviously not! Forgot to put the / in after “plenty”
And I guess the smiley s an eight in the original! Bother!
Fair enough. Now isn’t that better than “absolute crap” as an answer?
Gary Bruce #835
Ditto answer #836.
Gary Bruce -
No – you asserted I had copies on my computer. That was absolute crap.
As I pointed out to you previously you have lost the ability to ask proper questions. If you ask proper questions, you will get a proper answer.
Yes I made it! Sunday morning and no Insiders! I feel calmer already
I asserted nothing of the kind. I asked a question. You must take notice of question marks.
Now, you know that is spin on your part. My questions are clear and to the point. Look up what ? means.
Yep, Andrew. I gave them up in autumn 2008, when the fun of watching reactions was replaced by realisation that Kev’s win had sent AndyB, Milne, Planet Janet & other NewsLtd hacks over the edge – & Piers A (already well over it) even further into the abyss. I admit to reading transcripts for a while longer. Now I do only if an interesting comment links it.
Gary Hawker
Absolute crap.
Putting a question mark at the end of an assertion does not make it a question.
Look up the meaning of “so”.
Do some research into interview techniques and open ended questions.
836
Web source.
http://www.pm.gov.au/node/5729
Ah, the name calling. I must be getting under your skin Peter.
Indeed it does and indeed it was. I didn’t even contemplate a uni Library as a source.
I didn’t think you’d be old enough to be attending one. It’s a very fair answer. You”ll see further back I accepted that. My question was asked in good faith. The chip on your shoulder just doesn’t let you see that.
847 – thankyou fred. See that’s how it’s done Peter.
Gary Bruce – #848
I will let you have the last word. Enough of distractions.
Actually the start of the interview is quite interesting; before the GFC and everybody was worried about oil prices going up. Rudd was right, no one was predicting a rapid fall.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/07/2812384.htm?section=justin
Go, Julia!
OzPolT and Andrew – OH and I watched Insiders.. Abbott was the usual stuff – now denying that he thinks the retirement age should be 70 which he advocated last year or might have been the first year in opposition when Rudd raised the age to 67. Abbott said it should have gone further. He backtracked from that a mile a minute today.
Cassidy was pretty good. Bolt was his usual ‘talkover everyone’ self. BUT Lenore Taylor and Mischa Schubert were very fair and made really good comments about the ETS and Abbott’s plan. Mischa had good idea for Rudd to simplify messages. They were very, very listenable (if that’s a word!).
Warren Brown is obviously an Abbott fan but the cartoons were good.
Forget Abbot and Bolt but listen to Schubert and Taylor. I think Taylor is, apart from Megalogenis and JackTI, the best Murdoch journo.
Can you imagine teachers en masse voting for the Libs next election when the Libs have not said a negative word, or any word for that matter, re the MySchool site. Combined with their last efforts for education while in office I would have thought the Libs would be their last party of choice.
Thanks BH for the summary. I’ll watch it later now. I taped it. I don’t mind legit criticism of the government but wall to wall gets a bit much (and not all legit), which happened with some “Insider” programs last year.
Rudd Govt is still not winning the propaganda war on the CC issue. It has made good progress and the message is getting simpler, but it is not cutting through enough for me.
I am still puzzled why dont they keep on chanting the mantra that “The ETS is simply put a price on pollutions and the polluters will have to pay, no matter who they are” and emphasize this is the biggest difference between the two, one puts price on pollution, the other doesnt.
I am sure if a poll is taken with punters with the question: “Do you agree about putting a price on pollutions and the polluters will have to pay”. Overwhelmingly will be yes and yes.
#852
The extra $2billion is welcome. Hopefully it will be properly targeted.
Not sure what is meant by “falling behind in literacy and numeracy testing” means or how the MySchool website helps identifies those schools (or is able to identify them where as previous information available to the government wasn’t able to identify them).
No doubt expert educators can explain all and it will be revealed at a later date.
Andrew Bolt’s pontification about Lord Monckton’s Grave’s Disease (manifested physically through his bug eyed appearance) caused me to do a little research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graves'_disease
(or pick a non Wiki source if you like)
I note that some of the other symptoms include:
- Mental impairment, memory lapses, diminished attention span
- Decreased concentration
- Nervousness, agitation
- Irritability
- Restlessness
- Insomnia (inability to get enough sleep)
- Decrease in menstrual periods
So would it not be fair to question the positions of Monckton based on his affliction? How do we know which bits are based on reason, and which coming from an unfortunate affliction?
No wonder the Mad monk did not want to be photographed meeting the Mad man.
You’re right Finns – 856. Mischa S thought the same and suggest that the PM give a simplified speech outlining reasons for acting.
The Abbott mantra that ‘on $80,000 you will pay $540p.a.” is a bit of a joke. The PM should just say ‘yes – 1 coffee and cake per week to save the planet, yourself, your kids and your grandkids. Now who wouldn’t be prepared to spend that”.
They have to get down to bread and butter answers too.
Is there any reason why they don’t counteract Abbotts ‘greatbigtax’ by saying that the ETS is simply a charge like an electricity charge. It’s not a tax. Lenore Taylor, I thnk, suggested that Kev say wtte that Abbott’s plan is a great big tax on the budget.
A good line I thought.
BH @ 853
I watched “Insiders” as well. I had forgotten what a masturbatorium it is for the political commentariat. Bolt’s proposal for an “Inquiry into Climate Change science” which all the panelists readily agreed to was a wan*k too many. The continuing obfuscation on the CC action by a Denialist sycophanic MM is just plain sickening.
I’m going on a long walk to dissipate my anger.
Vote1M – We just laugh at Bolt now. He is now longer someone I yell at because he’s become a figure of comic stupidity.
Yeah, the inquiry thing was interesting tho. The Climate scientists have done nothing to defend themselves lately. If they fronted an independent inquiry perhaps they could counteract people like Plimer and Monckton. It seems to be getting too much for many people who’ve had to worry about the GFC etc so taking the easy way out -believing CC doesn’t need urgent attention – makes life less stressful. That’s when people like Plimer and Monckton step in and make themselves a fortune.
Re: Sleep deprivation, obsession & the role of Internet
OCD & OCPD are serious conditions with very serious consequences – only a few of which are highlighted in references below. Other areas of study are OCD/OCPD and Internet addiction, eg [Eight] Signs of Internet Addiction the Internet and suicide, esp of young people eg The Internet and Suicide There’s a very extensive bibliography on Net Addiction, Crime, Pathological Use, & Suicide
Please, if you know someone “The shoe fits”, urge them to seek help!
NB: The defining characteristics between OCD (itself a disturbing condition, as anyone with an OCD loved one knows) and OCPD (even more disturbing) are:
(a) individuals with OCPD believe only his/her way is correct and all others are incorrect and unacceptable
(b) explain their actions as rational
(c) Highly judgemental … OCPD derive pleasure in (a) and (b)
There’s also an increasing corpus of recent rigorous research linking sleep-deprivation and Alzheimer’s. For an easily readable summary, Sleep Deprivation Might Lead to Alzheimer’s
TP
It seems that the EU will have to bail out those countries but doesn’t that mean that Germany and France are doing so, in effect. I wonder at how voters in France and Germany would feel at having to bail out other countries; neither can be doing it too easy at the moment. I’d expect that at least some political group would take the populist stance and say “No bail outs”. I don’t think a bail out would be easy politically.
It was bad enough when the taxpayers had to bail out banks in their own country; bailing out banks and governments of other countries would have to provoke even more anger.
Quantum
Loath as I am to say anything in support of Lord Monckton, all of those symptoms of Graves Disease are in people who are untreated and have high thyroxine levels. I’m sure he is being treated and has normal thyroid levels so he wouldn’t have them.
BH
I think Kev and co were calling Abbotts CC con a “megatax” last week
Dio just read our piece on narcissism and Turnbull posted last night. What trait would you apply to Abbott who again this morning has backtracked on his own writings in Battle? something or other (I don’t intend to buy it to find out}
Vera – I hope they keep on doing it but they have to counteract Abbott’s jargon of $540 p.a. into simple form – 1 coffee 1 cake per week or somesuch.
Doesn’t sound much to give up for the sake of your descendants when it’s broken down into the same sound bites ‘the Goose’ hands out.
Is there a PBs’ rehab where I can spend some time?
Had a dream last night that I was watching TV and a panel of 3 were discussing an upcoming poll with one of them saying “This is the biggest jump in gaps we have ever seen!”
Had in my mind that it was favoring Labor but they didn’t actually say!
Ohhhh gawd! The Polls, The Polls!!!
Or as Quasimodo would say
“The bells, the bells”
Another Charles Laughton role for you Psephos
Vera – stop worrying – you would never dream that the biggest gap was for any mob other than our preferred one. I have great faith in you to keep me sane this year. lol
BH
Backtracking is just a normal political behaviour. It actually shows that Abbott has at least some insight.
Being a pathological liar, and I don’t think any of our current high-profile pollies fit that description from my superficial knowledge of them, are hallmark features of people with antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder.
BH
I’ve signed up for a couple of arvos a week at Tafe, that might get my brain functioning again
Libs out of step with the world again!
Only last week Joe was saying how Rudd must stop the stimulua spending NOW!!![Finance ministers from leading industrial nations wrapped up two-day talks on Saturday in northern Canada by vowing to continue massive public spending to bolster a shaky global recovery.]
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/g7-vows-to-continue-stimulus-20100207-nk9y.html
YES.
It’s called a protest vote, look it up.
Sounds like a wet dream, and like most wet dreams it’s a fantasy in your head.
Come election time the polls will be very close. It will be hard for the Libs to win, but who knows, if Labor stuffs up monumentally on something it could be the end of their government.
*the best Murdoch journo*
I got a laugh out of that one. About as good as *winning* an ugly competition.
Mind you Taylor in a good looking & very capable woman. Pity she is working with the scumbags. George too, he is to fair minded to associate with the pond scum.
to = too
The CC deniers can be as cute as they like with their rhetoric, but in the end they are being gazumphed by reality. Temperatures are rising, however much they may say they are not. Sea levels are also rising due to thermal expansion of the oceans. Rainfall patterns are changing and droughts are becoming more widespread and lasting. This is observable, measurable reality.
I think it’s time the govt branded Abbott as a flip-flopper. He’s simply been allowed to get away with too much ‘backtracking’ by the MSM. Weak as piss.
Tafe is great and can be a lot of fun as well. What are you doing? I love retirement but the brain started to die after 3 or 4 months of doing nothing so I got stuck into some community stuff. Still have senior moments (lol) – now, what is my name again!!
Apparently Joe Hockey is going to announce a u beaut economic package this coming week. Will be interesting if the next wave of bad news from o/s hits us too.
Dave – Lenore Taylor actually writes pretty fair articles about both sides. Don’t know how she manages to elude the Murdoch agenda most of the time.
Of course, the converse is also true. If the Coalition stuffs up monumentally, the margin could be much wider than would otherwise have been the case. Depending on the magnitude of the defeat, and how they cope morally with being defeated twice in a row, it could be the end of their party, or coalition, as the case may be.
[The geriatric army is on the march again, and it’s the same crowd as One Nation (and for that matter the same crowd as the monarchists get). What are they objecting to in the climate change thesis? It won’t affect them, for the most apart.
Moreover, doing something about climate change won’t affect them either – they’ll all be compensated. There’s no economic plea for help here. It’s simple, arbitrary crankiness. The crankiness of older, conservative, Anglo-Celtic, lower and middle-income people who grew up in an era when people like them ran things – everything from the corner shop to the Government. What they’re really angry about is that they’re no longer in control.
]Bernard Keane in crikey on Friday. He’s got a point. The talkback radio mob are stirred up again.
You’d think they might be grateful to have a
Something they wouldn’t have got from the Coalition. PLUS Johnny ‘promised’ them an ETS too.
jobraised pension thanks to the Labor government.More whingeing and whining from the old folks.
Meanwhile, in the real world the Rudd government is actually sitting down and talking with the Greens about instigating a real plan to alleviate CC, something the Rudd government refused to do in 2009.
So let’s just wait and see what the outcome of the talks is.
Just watching landline, and they’ve got that bug-eyed freak on there for Gawds sake!
Pretty hard for Coalition to stuff up, they are in opposition.
Well, I prefer the PB Insiders recap any day. i assume Cassidy didnt confront Abbott about his flip flopping on the ETS, or calling it a tax, or Barnaby’s bumbling??
And how about a poll, do you the public paying to cut emissions instead of polluters??
And, which services would you like cut for your $3b??
He’s all over the ABC. My state’s Local Radio made a big deal out of having him on the other week. A pin-up boy for the Coalition and shock jock talkback lunacy, and the ABC toasts him like a high prince.
Agree with Finns, the govt is losing the propaganda war on CC at the moment. I’m sure they have a strategy to turn this around.
Don’t be naive. You can stuff up from Opposition. Barnaby Goose showed how last week.
The government should just call Abbott’s CC plan, “A Great Big New Con”.
Parallels and parrots Abbott’s own line with their own.
Simple.
There’s something so selfish about this old folks objecting about CC action. They will be compensated, on top of their pension increase last year, but the attitude seems to be I wont be around in 2050 so it doesnt matter. Even if the science wasnt strong, and it is, wouldnt you want to give as Murdoch says the panet the benefit of the doubt??
Appalling.
The ‘Absolute Crap’ climate policy?
Let us all not forget that the last opposition leader to get such a dream run from the media was Mr Latham. It only took a few months though and the “troops home by Christmas” remark, and the gloss started to wear off. Abbott will suffer the same fate.
The simple question for Abbott is, if the CC science is crap, why would you waste $3b on it? How economically responsible for something that isnt necessary? And what sort of leader would do this simply for political gain?
#867,
All the government has to do wrt charges for CC action is to call it, “Climate Insurance”.
Everyone has insurance to cover for the prospect of catastrophic events, don’t they?
That’s all it needs to be equated to.
Simple.
I think the government really just needs to counter the claim that the ETS is a “great big tax on everything”, an entirely false claim that is being given a completely free run in the media.
If they insist on calling it a tax, let the liars show how the ATO is involved in the collection of the said “tax”.
#893
Such a complacent attitude, if it is present amongst the Rudd government, minders and staffers may cause Abbott to sneak through.
Who would ever have thought George Bush would win his first election. Presumably many Democrats believed he couldn’t.
Barnaby is highly popular in Queensland, I don’t think anyone cares if he stuffed up once.
Couldn’t find a nicer bloke south of the border.
BH #866
As per my post #837 earlier this morning:
Jesuitical!
Employing linked Jesuitical concepts equivocation and mental reservation (mentalis restricto) as used extrensively, in Oz, Canada, USA & other nations as well as Ireland; & in Oz, by Anglicans & other sects, to cover up sexual & physical abuse of those in their care – the sort that cost Howard appointee Archbishop Hollingsworth the GG’s job.
Trust them at your peril!
Especially if he keeps on bringing out Howard’s policies, e.g. the do nothing CC plan which Howard had going. Green this, Green that, but none of the incentives really worked. Hope Labor keeps pointing that out.
Paul Howes had a great answer to the OO’s carry on about the Fair Work policy on Friday. Clear, concise, cut through. He ridiculed the comments by Dean Mighell (?) of the ETU and made a lot of sense. No-one is going to accept a union scare campaign any more and Howes can talk about Workchoices freely.
Abbott will have to have good answers on every front instead of being the flipflop man.
It is simply a fact that Abbott has been given a dream run in the media. He came into the job just at the time the media (and the government) were winding out of politics for the holiday season.
So he he had virtually open slather. ABC Radio, for example, ran his grabs in practically EVERY single news bulletin, 24/7. And it was all kid-gloves stuff because media has a habit of leaving the serious stuff to other points of the calendar.
He had the regular pollie’s honeymoon – enhanced by the fact that the media’s BS meters were turned off and Labor was temporarily off the scene!
Well that’s the thing isn’t it, it’s not just once. It’s continual. He doesn’t understand what his job is (Shadow Finance Minister) and it shows. He presents a clear and present danger to the management of the Australian economy.
George W Bush was a “nice” guy too but he invaded Iraq without proof of anything and drove the US economy into the ground. Australia can’t afford to put a nice idiot in charge.
By the way Truth Hurting, still waiting for you to nominate the boat you arrived to Australia on?
He stuffed up more than once in the one speech!
And if you’re thinking he won’t come under heavy scrutiny, think again. He’s the alternative FINANCE MINISTER. Popularity alone doesn’t qualify someone for that sort of job. He’s out of his depth in running for one of the most responsible jobs in the economy!
He’s a weak link.
And Goose is just one of the weak links. Abbott’s Great Big Mouth is an inbuilt ticking time-bomb!
Thanks OzPolT – Surely all Jesuits aren’t as floppy as Abbott. I recall Abbott saying often that Kevn Rudd was vain. Seems the vanity bit is more Abbott’s persona with his constant attention to himself – the fitness regime for the benefit of the cameras, etc.
Tone lives in a glass castle.
The AFR depicting Joyce as a mule was spot on. It suits Barnaby’s type of ignorance, not self inflicted, not aware of it, he just is dumb as a mule. Though he breighs like a donkey and makes equal sense.
Wikipedia has a List of Australian Politicians Convicted of Crimes , including child sex offenders. The list may not be complete.
It is noticed that both the 2 major parties feature heavily on the list.
Rudd since he became PM has mostly ignored the oppositions’ rants and set his own agenda.
He’s onto the 3rd opponent now so he must be doing something right.
Why start debating the Libs’ claytons policies now and give them air?
That would allow them to set the talking points on the news every night and look like Rudd has lost control. Just what most of MSM and their stooges would love!
Let Abbott and Barnaby bumble on I say, and in the heat of the election campaign it will be “pass the popcorn”
No, I think Kev is a step ahead of the game
(as usual)
Give them enought rope, allready the repeated “great big tax” is losing it’s initial effect.
Repetition gets boring and the Libs don’t seem to have anything else.
Their CC is no longer “news” same for “great big tax” and they have done asylum seekers to death.
)
Even the likes of Crabbe and Maiden trying to get Abbott a boost in the female vote by their sickening school girl fawning over his budgies is old news now. (poor Tone still tries to bring it up whenever the chance asises though
What exactly have the Libs got left to fight an election on?
They’ve fired all their shots, and got the rednecks/Hansonites back in the fold and are still doing worse in the polls than at the last election.
Abbott is a bit Gollumish, he will change his story every minute to stay in with the crowd.
But the way he can change beliefs and positions day after day makes him very untrustworthy.
It must be impossible to believe or believe in someone like Abbott. You know that you can never believe what he says, or if he will say the same tomorrow, or even if he believes what he says. He is shape shifter.
You would never know what Abbott believes him from what he says. He has devalued the worth of words.
#908
The two parties which between them account for about 90 per cent of all MPs feature heavily? Golly.
I don’t think Abbott will be anymore successful than Keneally at fooling the people. Both came to the leadership accidentally at the end of the year before the summer break. Both seem to have mastered the photo-shoot (Keneally now issues media alerts advising the event will be a photo opportunity only and no traditional media conference will be held) and neither have faced tough interviews.
The SMH article Ready made for television discusses Keneally. Everyone on PB knows the Abbott situation.
BH
Gunna have a go at this
IT Tools for New Media – Certificate II (NRT)
OOps BH. Read trait as term
Traits: those identified as fundamentalism – “true believers” – often religious in nature, but generic to political, social etc life. Fundamentalism
If you look at photos of fanatics cheering for their idol – whether it’s a popular Royal, film star, rock singer or band, charismatic politician, religious or cult leader – expressions on fanatics’ faces are always the same. The same type of ecstasy is generic to fanaticism/ fundamentalism, irrespective of the object of inspiration and worship.
Dawkins defines the “symptoms” of being infected by the “virus of religion” They are remarkably akin to those displayed by sufferers of OCPD/ Anakastic Personality Disorder; probably because fundamentalism of any type requires the willing suspension of disbelief, closing the mind to alternatives, criticism etc, & derive pleasure from performing ritualistic acts.
Abbott will say he is a pragmatist just like John Howard and that will make the world right for him.
#911 – William
Actually the 2 major parties (I include the National Party by my definition as part of the Liberals) represent 100% of the list.
I am not a statistician.I am not sure if 100% of offences committed by 90% of politicians (or something like that) is statistically significant.
I don’t think this is good evidence, because there things innate in us that make us want to be fair. For example, there are tests where if someone is given $100, and asked to give someone a fair amount, most people give close to $50.
There IS something innate in us that wants to be fair.
Another reason why they cant let Spain, Greece, Portugal and Ireland fail, regardless of the domestic politics.
Another tsunami on the way if they don’t bail them and sort them.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704533204575046613394014150.html
Vera – a good one. You should enjoy that. Might be able to give some of us pointers too.
OzPolT – thanks. I’m going have to digest that properly. I think he tries to hide a lot of his religious fundamentalism. He is all smiles at the moment but I think he has quite a dark, calculating other side.
PY
You would lose your bet because Pauline Hanson isn’t from a major party.
OPT
An awful lot of those characteristics apply to political devotees who worship their leaders.
And Germany still has its own problems.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=addrty6o2WwQ
Abbott’s biggest threat comes not from the Government from his and his party’s past. He is a well-known quantity in public life and is seen as a very conservative opportunist. He has rallied his core supporters and has managed to quell the warfare in his party-room. But he can hardly have re-built the Liberal brand in just a matter of a few weeks. The Liberals are still the same bunch of divided, confused, reactionary, backward-looking ideologues now that they were in 2009, 2008 and 2007.
Of course, they know they are on a hiding-to-nothing to lose the coming election and, in a sense, have little to lose by risking their fortunes on Abbott and his pot-stirring style.
The thing is, when the vast, disengaged and sceptical public come to vote, two things will kick in for Labor, almost regardless of what Abbott might or might not say. Voters will ask themselves, is there a case for change? Their first instinct will be to say no. There is a reflexive resistance to change in nearly all of us, and it works powerfully at election time.
And secondly, they will ask themselves, which side is likely to be more reliable on the economy, jobs, inflation, interest rates. Try as they might to reverse things, the Liberals have messed up their brand on this fundamental issue, while Rudd has outperformed by any measure. The Government have shown leadership, foresight and resolve, and continue to do so. Until this changes, the Opposition have no hope of swinging the mass of voters to their column.
BH
A photo of “the other Tone” for you
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FwVuPdMPByI/SzIoHQNe5wI/AAAAAAAAL7Q/UbX_u5hFg6c/s400/tony+abbott+ape-osition+leader.jpg
#914,
Like those religious wingnuts from Idaho in the US who stole the Haitian children away from their families and tried to spirit them back to their brainwashing compound in order to show them “God’s Love”!!!
Even up until the point they were thrown back in the slammer for another 3 months until their trial comes up again they were saying that “God’s will will be done”, in order to enable them to continue on their merry, mindless way, stealing children, taking them back to the US and brainwashing them like they are. Sheesh!
Read Mike Carlton on Monckton. Why hasn’t the ABC asked questions about this. Why are they so accepting of him. His Press Club talk is on A-pac over and over again.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/debunking-the-myths-behind-the-pontificating-potty-peer-20100205-nikc.html
The Pauline Hanson one was bullshit.
She was jailed for not being part of the establishment and getting her fair cut of the AEC fund allocations.
The establishment just can’t handle a 3rd party cutting in on their parade, they have to send them to prison. Disgusting.
DIO = #920
No, no, no.
She was convicted and served her prison term. However, on appeal the conviction was over-turned. So in the laws fiction, she did not commit an offence.
My bank account details will be in the mail tomorrow. Thanks for the donation.
A nice graph might help to do the job here. I remember the Liberals using an Interest Rates graph in the last election. The government should show a graph comparing rates during the Howard years with those under Rudd. Howard never once in almost 12 years had interest rates as low as they are now.
That’s partly true. Most people give less than $50.
In those studies, subject 1 is given $100 and then told to give subject 2 some of it. If subject 2 agrees with that amount, they both get to keep it. In general, if subject 2 if offered less than $20, he/she will say rack off as it offends their sense of fairness and prefer to get nothing than see subject 1 take $80.
We do certainly punish people who try to stiff us, even if we would be better off taking the cash.
Do you guys know why Pauline Hanson was sent to prison?
Because over 1 Million Queenslanders voted for her, and she therefore got her 1 Million Vote cut of the AEC allocated funds that they give out after every election.
She was forced to pay this money back, which is a violation of our democratic rights… and no matter what side of politics you are on, anyone who supports that should be bloody ashamed of themselves.
It was that Champion of Democracy, Abbott, who ran around the countryside drumming up donations for a fund to get her put away.
Just having a look at Abbott’s interview on Insiders.
Love the way he calls Co2, Carbon Dock-side!
I’ve noticed that he pronounces it that way all the time.
Amazing likeness, Vera lol.
C@tmomma – that’s what fundamentalism does for ya. Nary a thought to telling the truth to the parents. They are all so young too – just who is brainwashing those Baptist kids. They are as trapped as the kids they were supposedly rescuing.
Truthy
She served a jail term because her appeal wasn’t heard until after she had completed the term. If her appeal had been heard and completed the moment she was convicted, she would not have “done time”. Blame the legal system for the stretch she did, not anyone else.
Vera – this may sound sexist but when Women are talking about a man, in this case Abbott it is not what they say that matters but how they act.
Women may be impressed that Abbott is a fit man but his views on Sex go against how Women view sex and their view of Men who seem against there idea of fun.
Bascially Abbott pshycially may impress Women but when he opened his mouth he leaves many feeling a little uneasy and its this that will catch up with Abbott on election day.
Bascially Women are cynical about Men who are unconfortable about Sex and may question his ability to run the country .
When Abbott became leader i predicted that Abbott might go okay with Women voters but only as long as he avoided sounding creepy
I watched Insiders too this morning. Lenore Taylor said that the Greens interim ETS proposal is worh looking at.
Truth hurts – It is quite common for people to do time while waiting for a court hearing, this time is normally taken off any sentance that is handed down.
I noticed too that Abbott repeated his claim of a single teacher in NSW on $80k per year.
Now he has added a nurse with two kids on $120k per year!
Wow, how come my BH, a nurse, qualified to work in any hospital dept including intensive care, accident & emergency, maternity etc, gets about “half” that.
PY
You are still wrong.
Excluding Hanson, there are 19 Labor-Lib-Nat pollies on that list. Assuming as we said that 90% of pollies are from the majors, that means that the probability that all are from majors is 1- (0.9 to the power of 19) which is 13.5%.
5% is considered statistically so 13.5% is not even close to being statistically significant.
You can make a donation to the Haiti Fund for me.
MexicanB – when you look above the neck you still see and hear Abbott and that’s a turnoff for most of us. I think those of us who have seen him over the past 12 years or so see behind the facade of ‘refreshing’ and ‘honest’. BTW we’d rather see younger bodies, too!!
Another renewable energy project which has been stalled.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/06/2812073.htm?site=news
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/05/2811798.htm
http://greensmps.org.au/content/media-release/rudd-could-save-musselroe-wind-farm-jobs-fixing-renewables-target
Truthy
You will remember that at pagan festival time, in response to PM Rudd’s request that people think of the less fortunate, particularly those away from their family’s at that time. I nominated groups of people I would be thinking of, including people serving jail sentences who would later have their convictions overturned (that is determined to be not guilty). You called me a latte sipping bleeding heart. I wasn’t offended, because I knew that people who were personally touched by the sets of circumstances I set out, would come to see things my way. Now I think you may have a different view of my “bleeding heart”.
Likewise my thoughts would have extended to Milton Okopoulos, if his appeal had been successful and his convictions on child sex offences overturned. It wasn’t and he remains in jail to serve out the balance of his 13 approx. year sentence.
BH #906
Nyaah! When they aren’t channelling the Counter Reformation (& every obsessive spy organisation EVAH! – I think Spooks’ Adam was probably an SJ OB) most of the ones I’ve met (inc Ivan Illich, for one seminar) are fascinating – brilliant, argumentative, many very left wing & Lib Theology – Lenin based his Troika/ Cadre structures on SJ Counter Ref structures) … and can make the Delphi Oracle & Three Weird Sisters combined look totally straight & ingenuous.
Back in the 1950s (before religious vocation numbers collapsed & lay teachers dominated) SJs were committed to elite ed with a heavy emphasis on higher level “reasoning” skills – logic, philosophy, ethics, apologetics and the like – SJ’s used to claim that half those they educated became atheists … which, you have to admit, is a probably result of training students to be far too rational! Their Ed method was widely copied & I was lucky enough to do “Senior” (Yrs 11-12) in one such school, with a heavy emphasis on logic, philos, ethics, apologetics, and I do not believe any god exists anywhere in this Cosmos or any parallel universe.
(BTW “Apologetics” definition: 1. The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines; 2. Formal argumentation in defense of something, such as a position or system.
One can’t defend one’s own position if one doesn’t know & understand all alternatives well enough to demolish them! Naturally, some end up believing it’s the original position that needs demolishing – hence the SJ’s reputation re atheists!)
Many threads back, I commented on the SJs’ role in “Liberation Theology” in Latin America & that of the truly great educator Dr Ivan Illich SJ and his work with Che Guevara & the literacy projects (among others). Right now, you & I are using a system of informal information-sharing and education – Learning Webs – we call by his term Web (the lead’s to Illich’s relevant Chapter and concepts.)
(I think Illich was asked to leave the SJ, or left of his own accord, as the Vatican control-freaks retreated from Pope John XXIII’s modernisation)
Good afternoon bludgers
I’ve just read back over the posts from after my departure last night.
Peter Young, if you’re here, thanks for your late-night research which confirmed my view that the Daily Torygraph had falsely accused Belinda Neal of defying Rudd’s instructions. I’m advised that you’re a Liberal troll. If so, it was jolly decent of you to make the effort to exonerate a Labor MP being framed up by a Liberal newspaper. You must be a Liberal of the old school.
DIO – #939
I have no idea about what you are talking about. The bet was that 100% were from the majors, not that they were statistically significant. Plus I have no idea of how you statisticians work these things out anyway.
Letter’s in the mail. Make the cheque out to the charity of your choice.
#944
You had better get better advisers.
Pauline Hanson was and remains a terrible stain on Australian politics. The public eventually saw through her style of double-speak and came to see her for what she is: an empty-headed bigot, standing for nothing but her own misguided ambition. Her biggest attempted crimes were not trying to rip off the taxpayer, but telling lies, sowing mistrust and exploiting racism to satisfy her thirst for admiration. Thank goodness this child of the Liberal Party has passed into much-deserved oblivion.
PY
Well, I’m telling you that 100% of offences being caused by pollies from the majors is not statistically significant so it is not worth commenting on.
BH – And that is why Abbott is not going to win the next election for Women may give him some credit for being fit but as you put it look above the sholders and what is seen goes against the mind set of most women that i know and this is the really bad news for Abbott i know many single professional women who live in Liberal seats or seats the Liberals need to win that feel rather unimpressed by Abbotts attitudes.
Once a women feels uncomforable about a Man it is nearly impossible for the man to change that, it is basic psychology
briefly
A third thing will come into ply. Do we really want Abbott as prime minster? And a forth, do we really want Rudd to win in landslide? It’s going to be an interesting election. My prediction, the polls on election night are not going to be that close. I think there may be a bit of strategic voting going on come election day.
My OH had the same kind of training – definitely an atheist now.
Before people point out that Abbott’s approval numbers for women and men is about the same, i suspect that is because many men and women too knmow Abbotts position on Workchoices.
Barny is popular in the bush, well that is good for the Liberal Nationals for we would expect them to do okay in regional Queensland but this election will not be won in the Liberal National Party areas but in South East Queensland and the other areas that traditionally decide Government like Melbourne’s Eastern suburbs.
In reality the Government is not banking on Dawson and Flynn for most people would see them as normally being National Party
Only too true MexicanB. Many men can’t understand that but once a woman gets that ‘feeling’ the bloke is lost forever. She may cover it up for awhile but the ‘feeling’ will consume anything the bloke may try to do. Abbott is a goner for many and even if the oldies liked his little lecture on virginity the women who don’t will be voters for many years longer.
There is hard to find any positive news out there. The best they can do is small dip in unemployment which could easily be a blip.
One wonders what the unemployment rate would be without any stimulus?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/business/economy/07gret.html?ref=business
This would be the GOP & Bush destruction of America.
I’d call him a flip-flopper
Since when has stealing money from tax payers been a democratic right?
If the government really wanted to do a number on about, then they should get out the footage of the way he acted with that petition to subsidies Alimta for asbestos victims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjklT59clE4
An add with the line : If Mr Abbott can’t sympathies for Asbestos victims, why would he care for families trying to pay the bills?
Abbott will have troubles from his own side well before the election. The moderates risk losing numbers if Abbott does badly and risk the increase of the ‘rights’ power if Abbott does well at an election. Damned if they do or don’t.
We know Turnbull’s history with G&S, cats and Packer and his love of cloak and dagger adventure. I thus suspect he would prefer some grandiose plot to deal with Abbott and co.
Dario, no, he aint one of us.
And that is why many men like Senator Brandis and Andrew Bolt mis-read Julia Gillard”s response to Tony Abbott’s comments about virginity for Gillard never said Abbott was wrong in the sense of encouraging his daughters to choose better quality men to sleep with but the way he spoke would have given women a sense that Abbott was not all together on their page.
If Abbott had been half smart he should have said something like
Ïf my daughter asks me for dating advice i would tell them that some relationships are good while relationships are not good but no matter what there are two things i want them to remember, 1 i am aways there for them and 1. never tolerate a men who hits you.
You’re a flipper flapper, not a flip-flopper.
while some
if Abbott was half smart he would believe in climate change.
Dolphins don’t flop, Finns – they dive like daggers, straight through uncharted waters. Floppers are Tabbotts.
Sunday Maths classes at PB , Uni guys PY & Diog
both wRONg
Diog acepts a silly sample and comes to 13.5 % and PY comes to 90% then changes
my much skilled level maths quals than youse being high school maths can solv this
There is NO maths % based on what has been said at all !
First we hav Green trall PY posting anyting here anti Labor he can find , no matter how insignif Its his life nite & day
So he finds a list oz convicted pollys (19) on google Yep no Greens there , will post it
Now diog mistake was to entertain PY’s stats %’s base
But seeing there has been stuff all Greens polys EVER elected to State or Fed Govt there absense is no surprise Ditto Democrats , ditto FF So of couse th list will be
only Labor & Libs/Nats pollys
so PY you posted irelevent crap , about pollys convicte JUST bcause no Greens were on list
now young PY , that diog should hav picked up not PY’s % base If you were intersted you’d take th 19 convictons as a % of total number of oz pollys ever elected in any Parlamanent in oz from 1901 ! That is th only % to talk about It wuld tell us what we know , a blip % oz poillys convictd as we been pretty lucky here in oz
BUT THEN , that was not why you posted it junior aprentise was it , you posted a patthetic anti labor post And pay up to Haiiti fund as my unskilled maths diog corect said
Amigo Vera, my place is always available, where you can bludge, all day, all night, Marienne.
ShownOn that is a big “IF”
BH, i flop all the time, story of my life
Diog, you should know. you do it almost every day.
To some degree perhaps. Abbott has a much higher frequency of use than your average polly however.
The Finnigans
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 2:58 pm | Permalink
Backtracking is just a normal political behaviour.
“Diog, you should know. you do it almost every day”.
you mean his backstep zig zag danse routine
Bank guarantee to end on March 31:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/stronger-economy-brings-end-to-bank-quarantee/story-e6frg6n6-1225827535896
Yeah that’s exactly right Ronster, he “danses” to your wrapping.
is it just me or are we beginning to be hit with the costs of carbon pollution reduction already, although obviously everything has more than one simple cause?
I mean early in the week there was a story about poorer energy users being hit hard by smart meters. Now I’m sure this isn’t just carbon pollution reduction but ‘demand management’ which is very trendy for stretched water and generation utilities, but it is all connected surely. Just what is missing is a market mechanism to punish polluters and pay some compensation. Yeah there would be some additional costs.
I saw a few grabs of insiders this morning real eye rolling stuff, how do the other journos feel realising that their whole profession, and their whole ‘inside’ is shared with bolt, kinda devalues them all down to something.
I though one of Andrew’s more ridiculous comments was about the ETS. If the ETS has a flaw it is that it is essentially a market based mechanism. This is something rightwing nutjobs should lov, but they are being incredibly dishonest with this whole big tax thing, trying to pretend it is somehow leftwing. If it was that leftwing the nutjobs on the left would have supported it.
Show Off
as one of my apprentises , you improving
MC Ronster,
1 HaV3 no PhuxOr1n’ 1d3A wH@ 7H3 H3lL jOo R 9o1N’ oN A8Ou7.
Someone has to pay for the smart meter. Are we really that surprised that it will be the person using the smart meter?
The rapidly increasing cost of energy in Australia is related to two main factors 1) energy in Australia has for a hundred years been much cheaper than other countries, so the only way is up. 2) State governments have been woeful at investing in new generation capacity.
Nah – I don’t believe you.
Jasmine – I’ve used to wonder about the other journos on the panel with Bolt, Akerman & Milne. But through last year things changed a bit – they challenged the nutters or interrupted or corrected them. Even Taylor did a bit of that today with Bolt. It is up to Cassidy to pull him up too. Or is it intentional that they let him make a fool of himself?
Have a read of Mike Carlton’s column on Monckton? I knew people called him a charlatan but surely the ABc would check him out before letting him loose. Obviously not – his lack of authenticity doesn’t seem to matter to the media.
Ronster
Thank you o wise one. I have seen the error of my ways.
Finns
Sometimes to make progress you need to take one step back and two steps forward repeatedly. It’s better than standing or swimming still. As Uncle Albert said
TheTruthHurts #899
FFS, TTH, Do you ever get anything right? Do you ever check facts before you form an opinion?
1. Barnaby IS FROM South of the Border. He’s a “Mexican”! & lives at St George- which is not far from the NSW border! Born 1967 in Tamworth and brought up in Danglemah in Southern New England. Educated as a Boarder at Riverview College Sydney – Abbott’s Old School Tie! Attended University of New England & graduated in Commerce. In 1993 Barnaby married his wife Natalie and together moved to St George in Western Queensland. Senator Barnaby Joyce
2. He is NOT “highly popular” in Qld; in fact the Nationals combined Senate vote 2004 is just over 20% of the ALP’s & about 12.5% of the Libs! In rounded figures – Nats c150,000; Lib + ALP 1.6 million … ie Nats vote was less than a tenth of the combined Lib & ALP vote – and that for the Latham election when the ALP vote was pathetic!
Check Senate results 2004 Senate Results QLD On first prefs, the Nationals (ran as a separate ticket) scored 149,673 votes – the Libs 867,070, the ALP 715,734, Greens 122,302, Hanson 102,836 Note: One Nation scored 71,032; therefore Pauline Hanson-initiated parties scored 173,868; quite a bit higher than the combined National vote of 149,673 (if they’d cross-preferenced, Pauline not Barnaby might have won!) …
Which explains why Barnaby has gone all out for the RWDB (Hansonite, ALoR, La Rouche etc) votes! Before 2004, he was as intelligent & articulate (I enjoyed his performances) as one would expect a Riverview & UNE OB to be. Since 2004, he’s been doing Son of Joh & Pauline! Anything to stay in the Senate & win the RWDB vote!
Jasmine
What Rudd will do to Abbott gradual , be patient , is say to public you can not reduce co2 unless you tax big poluters I am (it called an ETS) , then I am compoensating households & industry for what they pass on to you in costs
Rudd has already said Mr Abbott is not taxing big polluters at all , and so his claims he will reduce co2 without taxing them ar a majic pudding
this will take time to get message thru
Diog
“Life is like riding a bike; to keep your balance, you must keep moving.’
but if you keep fallin off , and hitting your head
you end up like Barnaby
Diog, Uncle Albert said i will be riding on the photon of light and moving forward all the time and nothing can go faster than me. Never look back, angel.
If you look at Sportsbet, there is absolutely no money for Rudd going any earlier than August.
Rudd holding an election in July or earlier is paying $8. October is the favourite.
https://www.sportsbet.com.au/sports/event/SportID/65/CompetitionPID/22523/RoundPID/5487/EventID/1057841
Finns
What the hell have you done to your gravatar? It looks like a dolphin superimposed on a Greek goddess.
Have you been up to mischief again?
I hope it is a D.D. Would people really vote for Abbott, and potentially give him control of the Senate too?
Diog, it was just too beautiful to ignore:
http://swansdesign.com/images/paintings/canvas_martini_dolphin.jpg
Diogenes
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 3:33 pm | Permalink
“If you look at Sportsbet, there is absolutely no money for Rudd going any earlier than August.”
Said before xmas , i expected & still do think Rudd to run his FULL term ie to Oct/Nov
Brumby goes late Nov , so early Oct has been my selecton to avoid cross ovrs
Whether a DD or 1/2 will be a polical desicon then , as on some % votes Rudd is actualy better off with a 1/2 Senate eloecton plus it is also not a one issue capaign
There are a number of red flags out there at the moment and some grim analysis. So you would think an adviser would be altering investors to the possible risk factors before investing in the share market.
That was from The Age.
I think Rudd is more likely to go in late September to avoid problems with the Victorian redistribution:
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/02/possible-election-dates-and-the-victorian-redistribution-timetable.html#more
I would have more things to support a 600 point drop in the All Ords than it is ‘a great time to invest’.
One only need to look at this chart and contemporary comments from the experts to understand how little we know…
and so on..
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001.html
Do Rudd’s minders have Sunday off? Can’t find any media stories correcting the Sunday Telegraph articles. Or are Rudd’s team purposely allowing misinformation to get stuck firmly in the public conscience?
Scorpio said
I don’t really want to defend Abbott, but my recollection of what he said was ‘a teacher and a nurse on $120k’, i.e. he was referring to their combined income.
Of course, the idea that anyone will be worse of financially is ludicrous. The whole purpose of increasing electricity prices is to get people to think a bit longer before switching on the air-conditioner. You don’t have to pay a single extra cent if you are prepared to rationalise your energy use.
The short answer to the election date question is that only Rudd knows, and he ain’t telling.
The slightly longer answer is that the opinions floating around APH are that (a) Rudd doesn’t want a DD, and (b) he doesn’t want to go early. These opinions are probably no better informed than opinions here are, but I’m inclined to believe them. I doubt Rudd wants a single-issue election on the CPRS. He wants to be re-elected on his record as a whole. Climate is a very treacherous issue, especially in Qld. He also knows that the voters don’t like early elections. So the view is that a regular election in September-October is the likely choice. That means no new Senate until July 2011, and hence no CPRS bill until later that year. That in turn would mean that the starting date of the CPRS would be put back again, to 2013.
I don’t think Rudd will be expending any political capital defending Neal. And why should he? She’s innocent of this particular charge, but she’s been nothing but trouble, and preselections are none of his business anyway.
It’s a bit sad that we on the blog are responding a bit like Pavlov’s dogs to Abbott’s desperate Talking Points. He says some nonsense :-: we in turn respond.
But since we ARE responding, I’d suggest that any family with his proverbial nurse and teacher as breadwinners would have too high a combined IQ to be a typical conservative-voting unit.
So I fear his talking points not.
For sure, fredn. I think there are other, deeper influences at work too. Maybe it is just my age and my own experience that generates these feelings, but I think there is a kind of underlying anxiety that permeates our lives.
There are so many factors at work on our hassled modern pysches. Some are almost omnipresent, like the permanent stresses on household finances, concerns about the job market, interest rates and the cost of housing. Others must simmer away in our consciousness throughout our lives – things like educating the kids, wondering about the environment, dealing with the pressures of commuting to and from work and having access to good medical care when someone in the family is hit by illness. There is the sheer pace of change in our world, and the sickening weirdness of terrorism and violence.
All these things percolate away, generating unease in many, fear in others, trauma in some. At a deep level, we choose a party that we think can comprehend and respond to all these things. I think this is why Rudd has been so popular: he is re-assuring, energetic, consistent, composed, intellectually equipped and seemingly imperturbable. In the face of anxiety, he is clear about what he thinks and about what to do. So in a troubling world, Rudd is a calm brow as well as a quick thinker and a doer.
Abbott does not come anywhere close to this. On the contrary, he represents discord and doubt. He is a reason for fear, not a salve for treating it.
ShowsOn #977
(How much exactly do smart meters cost upfront & how much do they add to your annual energy bills? Well, I’ve just spent an hour Googling & hell, I’m used to research & I still don’t know! I’ve listed the more lucid, helpful references. Someone may have better ones.)
I assume the claim (above) is based on the Choice Report. As you need to press “cached” at the end of the Google address (the URL is “Bad”) I’ll post the full google reference:
Not so smart meters with Choice.com.au
7 Jan 2010 … Mandatory installation of smart meters has begun in Victoria. … and they’re currently being trialled in some homes in NSW and Queensland. … The infrastructure costs of smart meters are passed on to all consumers. …
http://www.choice.com.au/Life…/Not%20so%20smart%20meters.aspx – Cached
This articles seems to have been followed by a spate of syndicated articles which seem to be more or less wordy variations of this short one Smart meters ‘hurt low income earners’ (Chronicle 02/02/10)
But, after many google pages of references, finding reliable hard data for Oz overall is difficult, as some power companies, and some Q Regional Council areas (eg Townsville) present different approaches, even themes & costs – I say “seems” as many of them are obfuscating spin. Some sites present info around water and power “smart meters”, as if they somehow come together.
Victoria’s United Energy Distribution’s Advanced Interval Metering Roll-out is descriptive buy not helpful in answering Cost questions; more Victorian info is @ Victorian Electricity Retailers Charging For Smart Meters with different companies charging different prices etc Smart meters – are they worth the cost? (scroll down to 10 September)
Wiki has a quick overview of the concept & International systems Smart meter
Talk aboutit is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Fascnating article by Alan Jones criticising the muck rakers at the SMH who constantly scream corruption (but, I am looking at the Greens trolls on PB who spout the same rubbish) regarding anything to do with development and developers. Seems the largely unsubantiated claims have had an impact on the NSW economy as banks refuse to have anything to do with housing developments.
The latest ICAC inquiry is calling the whole “evidence” bullshit regarding the tawdry allegations in the McGurk matter.
Alan Jones is no fan of Labor. But, obviously his health issues and the scars of the smear campaigns and trumped up inquiries against him previously overwhelm any political disagreements he might have with the Government.
From the earlier article in the SMH re Kenneally, looks like she has thus far broken the cycle of bad news for Labor in NSW. With an improving economy and a lack lustre Opposition, who knows what may happen in twelve months time.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/something-is-rotten-at-the-smh/story-e6frezz0-1225827516611
So an injustice is perpetrated and the one person who could do anything about it, sits by and watches, doing nothing.
I am so angry….I am off to the park.
Thanks Finns!
Sounds like my kinda place
Well i do not agree with Anthony Green link at all
issuing a electon writ pre 30th July just to comply with a redistrib so electoral authauritys ar not inconvenienced will not be a Rudd decider
2nd Anthonys proposed result of a Aug/sept electon does not hold eithr re a Sept timing espec late Sept timings Rudd will not want a 7/8 weeks long campaign nor run it over 4 week rugga & AFL finals series in Sept
So that leaves Aug , Oct & Nov and as i says Nov is Brumbys vic ALP mth , and aug is not Rudd m , he for many reasons as said earlier wants a FULL term Thats why think early Oct
Maybe some miss risk of a DD , it becomes a ref on one issue , very dangerous politcaly
Seeing Rudd has a great Econamic & Schools revol etc mesage to tell public a 1/2 is better for that ands if polls narrow abit Rudds senate numbers ar better maybe in a 1/2 than DD anyways Rudd will decide that at time , and not now Now is to squeeze Abbott hoping 2 libs cross floor , and if not damge to him anyways So hav bet 1/2 early Oct
A reminder that Joe and his pink fairy dress will be on TV tonight.
Thanks for the warning Vera.
Receiving information by Television is so last century.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSkVMbC2diY
Go-awn Gary, I bet you’ll have a blown up photo on the wall above your computer so you can gaze in amazement at Joe to give you inspiration
OMG GG!
We know Joe’s a wangker but no need to treat the pink dress that way!
“I’m advised that you’re a Liberal troll”
however he has a doggie , who is a Greens troll
and posts under PY as well ,
and makes more…
struggling abit on english here , how do you distinct between a Libs mind and a Greens mind
PY,
“how do you distinct between a Libs mind and a Greens mind”.
One does not exist and the other doesn’t matter.
Should hav checked my precous footy calendar on fridge magnets vs when writs can be issued Seems AFL Prelim Final is Sat 18/9 and GF is Sat 25/9
So would not expect writs pre AFL GF (NRL GF a week later) whereas issued straight after then makes a ½ on 30/10 , not early Oct
thats rite on end timing of a Brumby start for his Nov electon , so its close , but consistent with my view that Kevin Rudd fro many reasons wanting a full term (And so still does not change my view of Anthonys pre 30 July writ view)
Altern is to go for a late DD , but that means having to declare a specif electon date in week before even AFL Prelim final & running a campagn in footy finals , and having risk of single issue electon & also not running closer to a full term & selling his econamic , educ etc acheivements that you can in a ½ Senate campaign Arguments against a DD grow , unless a politcal calamitys occurred to make a Aug DD worth so many politcal risks
has anyone seen the bile that is in the agenda section of today’s sunday mail by Rebecca Wilson. The most .bias piece of B/S i have ever seen.
I am trying to find a online version but can’t as yet maybe someone smarter than myself can . But please read it . Absolut crap/
Greensborough Growler
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 5:06 pm | Permalink
PY,
“how do you distinct between a Libs mind and a Greens mind”.
“One does not exist and the other doesn’t matter.”
thanks GG , as always precise and corect
GG
You mean like this:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/the-worst-game-show-answers-ever-14662992.html
Just saw Abbott on Skynews saying Barnaby will need to learn a lot of things and swatting on fianance is one of them.
Bet Tanner can’t wait for the next QT.
gus,
Monty Python got there years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9myHhpS9s
Abbott will have to learn a few things, too. Like (a) not appointing morons to key frontbench positions, (b) lying more convincingly.
Ron
The punters agree with you and have October as a very short favourite at 2/1.
I think you are the punters are right but I’m surprised that everyone is so sure Rudd won’t go earlier than August with really big odds of 7/1.
I looked up the timing of elections since the war by month
March 5
July 1
Oct 4
Nov 5
Dec 6
Why are the last three months so popular?
but he is on TV tape re many CC positons
missed out famous Napoloeon thing date Dec 2 , not sure which defeat but Gough said it & won on that
Diogenes@1019
Small problem – October is School Holiday time in WA and it would be a bad time as people are away and thus result in a high absentee vote.
OzPol Tragic re smart meters….
DPI web site has info about smart meters, including their effects on electricity bills.
http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/energy/projects,-research–and–development2/smart-meters/smart-meters-and-my-electricty-bill
http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/energy/projects,-research–and–development2/smart-meters
992
At the moment buying stocks comes down to one point; do you believe we know enough to control our economies. My view is yes.
Back in 1930 what could be done was limited by the amount of gold. Things started to recover when gold was dumped as the measure of value. This time round, in the end the thing we call money is only paper; if fact it’s not even that, a few numbers in a computer. Sooner or later inflation is going to kick in, then owning real assets will beat paper.
Heck we have just got through a period when you couldn’t even get a letter of credit written, Europe bailing out a few member sates is nothing. In my view that is what will happen; it’s no different than the US baling out California. Europe is not going to abandon their rapid expansion over a few trillion Euros, a lot more gold than that has been burnt trying to unite Europe in the past.
Battle of Austerlitz, 2 Dec 1805, when Napoleon defeated “a ramshackle Coalition”, as Gough liked to point out.
thanks Adam
seems i just missed out on Napoleon not losing , suppose a minor error sort of , but his book I did remember had th “a ramshackle Coalition” bit did happen on Dec 2
GG
final one
I seriously hope you aren’t referring to ‘cash for comment’, which was the furthest thing you can get from a trumped up inquiry.
Surely Abbott appointed people like Joyce to make himself look better (smarter, less extreme, more competent) by comparison?
With Hockey in a tutu on TV tonight, is anyone else reminded of this effort:
http://tinyurl.com/yjj34yq
Abbott has to be joking. What did Anthony or McEwen ever do? Except lead the National Party – poor Warren.
‘Abbott will have to learn a few things, too. Like (a) not appointing morons to key frontbench positions, (b) lying more convincingly.’
“Surely Abbott appointed people like Joyce to make himself look better (smarter, less extreme, more competent) by comparison?”
sorry , but no
which given its th finance portfolio no less , leads to only a few conclusions left about Abbott apponting a moron
Sometimes, a recording device comes in handy
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/201002/programs/ZY9286A001D2010-02-07T235000.htm
Hitler did not write a book about his experiences in prison. He wrote (or rather dictated) Mein Kampf while he was in prison.
Clive Palmer bought the Libs last year. Perhaps one of the conditions was Barnaby Joyce in a senior financial portfolio.
As I said yesterday Joyce will have zero to say about Chinese investment after Clive borrowed $8.6 billion from China.
Polyquats and Scorpio,
As someone who does not believe everything that is said on PB and tries to verify the veracity of opinions and unsubstantiated comments on PB, here is Tony Abbot’s actual quote:
http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=3939
Actually.pseph
According to the book in front of me “Hitlers Secrest Book” grove press NY c1961
intro by telford taylor
“This long buried screed is hitlers secondbook or, if the two volumes of mein kamp
Actually.pseph
According to the book in front of me “Hitlers Secrest Book” grove press NY c1961
intro by telford taylor
“This long buried screed is hitlers secondbook or, if the two volumes of mein kamp
BH # 919 (& Diog #920)
Using Presthus’s patterns of accommodation, I’d rate Tony Abbott (as I did Mark Latham) as an Ambivalent; but one who, perhaps for his ego reasons, or because he’s trying to fulfil others’ expectations (& may be subjected to pressure from one or more source to do so) is trying to be a political Upward Mobile.
That type of conflict is obvious from the youth’s seminarian/ sexually active student / believed he might have fathered a child/ rabid RW RC behavioural patterns. Typically of an Ambivalent, he wants the rewards of Opposition Leader & PM, but refuses to discipline himself to act within the norms of party, parliament etc – to “play political games according to the rules” – or to temper his attitudes and policies to meet societal expectations of a PM in waiting; also like Mark Latham. At their best (or worst) Ambivalents are the change-agents, revolutionaries at whatever – innovators, lateral thinkers, early “drop outs” from the establishment – as well as the ones who want (& probably deserve) promotion within a conservative organisation, but turn up ever so argumentative at the appraisal interview with long hair & a beard, daggy T & jeans and sandals.
The Organizational Society: An Analysis and a Theory, Robert Presthus’s seminal book (source of Upward Mobiles) is one of those magical works people working in organisations (esp bureaucracies) love because Presthus describes organisational characters Soooo well they fall over one another naming & describing just such people in their workplace – even ring one up, just to describe them; spend most of a teletute & subject message board telling stories!
1034
And then proceeded to evade taxes on the proceeds.
He should never have been allowed to be naturalised in 1932 because he had been convicted of treason and was evading taxes.
Re the CPRS and calling it a tax. The Government (ALP) will not want to get bogged down in a debate on terminology. They will want to fight an election on the broader issues of the need for, and the extent, timing, and effectiveness of Climate Change mitigation action, and even more more broadly, their handling of the economy and governance in general, in respect of which they compare very favourably to the Coalition, (in my opinion).
The falsehood in the ‘great big tax on everything’ line in any case is not the word tax. It is the great, big and everything, and the way it is used to hide the farcical and unfunded ‘alternative’ that the coalition trotted out this last week.
The 2009 – 2010 budget papers (Statement 5 of Budget Paper 1), explain clearly that the CPRS is treated as a tax – see table 13 and box 5. http://www.budget.gov.au/2009-10/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst5-06.htm For the Government to try to argue otherwise would be dangerous and pointless.
“this book details in a part hitlers experiences whilst in Landsberg-am-Lech prison”
‘the reichswehr is a mercenary army….on account of suppressing his own putsch in 1923″
GB@854:
I am a teacher, and I don’t know about other teachers, but I think the MySchool site is a fantastic initiative. Should have happened a long time ago.
Information should be free, and available.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/07/2812419.htm?section=justin
So there is Abbotts slush fund gone, for one power station and electricity prices will need to increase by 20%
Finns@856:
Finns you are right yet again.
Yes it is a tax, but the debate should be framed as the government needing to pay off the pollution debt that the current generation has racked up for future generations.
If the Government says that we have to start paying now so that all the cost isn’t placed on our children and grand kids, then it will get more traction.
more scary stuff from tony on the abc thinks joyce would make a great leader
GOD HELP us not tonys god though i think he would be appauled
may i suggest that every one writes to the new abc directors by mail re the standard of journalizim at the abc
fredn at 1024
I suspect one of the “armageddon” risks for financial markets would be the collapse of fiat money. This would be particularly the case for the USD – there is a view that it is abusing its position as the global reserve currency with its monetary policy slackness.
In that case, yes holding hard assets would indeed be the go. However, shares are not and would not be – consider what happened to share values in Weimar Germany or Mugabe Zimbabwe when their fiat currencies collapsed and inflation ensued
Barnyard was quizzed about this at the press club. He said the fact Palmer donates so much to the LNP, yet Barnyard has a different opinion to him on that issue demonstrates that the LNP isn’t owned by Palmer.
If Barnaby would make a great leader how come the Nats don’t have him as their leader?
Hmmm…. let me think. Who is more likely to be right. Ronny McDonald, or Antony Green…
Let me think about that…
Tradition. He isn’t in the House. He basically is their leader anyway.
No reason why he can’t run for HOR if he’s such a good thing. When are the Nats preselections due?
1050
It comes down to; will fiat money get us out of this or not. I believe it will. It’s one of mankinds greatest inventions. Economic activity should not limited by the amount of gold available. Yes it doesn’t replace the production of goods and services, but it does prevent production stopping because private capital withdraws from the economy and hordes gold.
All the people from last time are protected. So there are no safe seats for him.
He would be a complete embarrassment in the house. The Senate gives politicians relative anonymity.
While catching up with last weeks Lateline episodes, I noticed that Senator Penny Wong clearly indicated that the Government’s CPRS reduction target is 5% by 2020, not the 5% – 25% sometimes quoted by some on this site.
I maintain my previously stated belief that the 2020 target needs to be higher to be effective, and to place us with a reasonable chance of achieving the long term target of 60% by 2050.
Hitler’s “second book” isn’t about prison either, it’s mostly about foreign policy.
Most developed countries wanted to announce 80% by 2050 at Copenhagen, but it was vetoed by China.
So in other words Barnaby doesn’t have the guts to be in the position to lead the Nats.
Instead is happy to let MSM and others misinform us of his wonderful leadership skills knowing full well his bluff will never be called.
There will always be a handy excuse made for him.
fredn 1056
Yes, I dont think the collapse of fiat currency is anything like the central case
However, with policy slackness (“printing money”), there is a signficant risk of inflation breaking out down the track (after the proverbial long and variable lags)…the transition to high inflation would not be a positive for most businesses (and therefore most shares)
Why? If that looks like happening, central banks can just put their interest rates up.
Why would Barney want to move to the HoR? Despite what he says.
He has secured a position on the Senate ticket that ensures him a job for life. Why face the electors every 3 years? Even if he could get the support for preselection in a safe seat, which is doubtful given the trials of Peter Dutton.
He has this silly belief that Senators shouldn’t be ministers.
Prior to Joyce, have there been many “County-National” Ministers from the Senate, especially in an economic portfolio?
1058 Fargo61 – You left out the rest. She also said it would be 25% if the rest of the world committed to such. This has been their policy for some time. Quite reasonable I would have thought.
ShowsOn 1063
Well I guess the question is the extent to which the horse has bolted…very low interest rates, particularly for the global reserve currency, and quantitative easing (aka printing money) by again the USD and STG has already taken place.
Yes, to try to prevent this, one could look to reverse these policies i.e. increase interest rates. Part of the jitters in the financial markets was the one dissenter in the recent US Fed FOMC meeting (who objected to wording on prolonged policy looseness, on the basis of inflation risk) and China instituting quantitative credit restrictions.
Interest rate increases in the current environment (in most of the developed world) is not a positive for economic activity, nor shares (again see the last few weeks). Consider what the US Fed did in the early 80s to rein-in 1970s inflation…severe 82 recession; or RBA in 92
An ugly scenario is monetary inflation; an ugly scenario is tightening credit policies/higher interest rates; an ugly scenario is Japan – zero interest rates, no inflation but basically a liquidity trap for 20 years as a credit bubble (amongst other things) deflates.
Lucky the cricket is going OK
1062
Inflation in and of itself does not slow down economic activity.
Once the economies start growing again yes, until then. They should be left where they are.
Comparing with Japan doesn’t make sense because Japan had a government for 40 years that spent ridiculous amounts of money on rural infrastructure projects that added nothing to the economy. It wouldn’t of wracked up so much debt if it didn’t spend money on essentially nothing.
It doesn’t make sense to say that the U.S. and U.K. printing money will result in a Zimbabwe like scenario. Zimbabwe doesn’t have an economy, we know that the U.K. and U.S. do have an economy that in a year or so will come roaring back to life as people go back to work.
The Chinese did cause much of the problems at Copenhagen and were responsible for much of what occurred.
However the Chinese are noticing that America is struggling to put in place a policy as well, in fact their legislative
may struggle to pass much of a policy at all.
The current approach is this, we will do something when you do something, no we will when you do, and Australia well
it is the same approach we will when someone else does… and by 2050 no politician in control now will be around then.
An interesting question. Under Howard, no Nat Senate ministers, but David Brownhill (NSW) and Ron Boswell (Qld) were Parly Secs. Under Fraser, Tom Drake-Brockman (WA) (very briefly), Jim Webster (Vic) and Doug Scott (NSW) were ministers at various times. Under Menzies, Sir Walter Cooper (Qld) was a long-serving Minister, and Harrie Wade (Vic) and Colin MacKellar (NSW) were also ministers. All were in fairly junior portfolios. Only Cooper was in Cabinet, as Minister for Reptriation.
One of significant problems in America is low wages and that property industry is an economic basket case.
Low wages reduce demand and do not allow a multipler affect to occur throughout the economy.
Minister for Reptriation = Minister for Repatriation. (ie, Veterans Affairs, quite an important portfolio in the postwar years).
That’s why the government should be saying that the CURRENT generation of Australians need to do something so the job isn’t left to our children and grand children.
The Government should say that if the current generation of Australian’s makes an investment to protect the environment now, there will be less for our grand children to do. Whereas the Liberal plan just places more of the burden on people who are currently 5 years old.
The Liberal approach is stone age politics, and to hear Abbott say we will wait another ten years to let the world make up its mind is quite simply
pathetic- what a weak dill. This is guy cannot be fair dinkum, what planet is he from?
Mind you Labors’ approach is not much better but at least they are attempting something. Their policy needs to be toughened.
About the only thing she is qualified to write about is drink driving
May I remind you marky mrky, if the greens had of voted for the legislation in the senate Australia would now be putting in place a scheme. As it is nothing until 2013,if we are lucky.
fredn 1069
true enough however, I didnt say the contrary; my point was that transition to high inflation would not be positive for business/shares
Showson 1070
(1) A risk is that with if monetary policy is keep really loose for prolonged periods, one does get inflation, notwithstanding weak economic activity
(2)
ZERO is a very low probability to attach to this scenario…consider most of the 1970s; stagflation is certainly been written about as a current risk
(3) Yes, Japan is very different, not just in government but also corporate behaviour (eg extent of value maximisation). However, it is an interesting case of how long it takes for a credit induced bubble/bust to work its way through
(4) I was pointing to Zim as an example of the “armageddon” scenario
So Joyce is the first Country-National Senator appointed to a “shadow cabinet” or cabinet position since 1949.
Sir Walter Cooper seems like a very good choice as Minister for Repatriation, Barnaby on the other hand…
polyquats @ 994,
Went back and replayed the interview! Abbott clearly said a teacher in NSW on $80k (which he has mentioned in previous interviews) and then talked about a teacher “and” a nurse with two kids on $120k per year.
Very slippery because he “didn’t” clarify that it was a “family” and could also be interpreted as two separate entities on $120K per year each, or as a family unit on a combined $120K.
I think he is aiming to emphasise the “cut-off point” where compensation under Rudd’s ETS starts to reduce and those people over it will be paying progressively more depending on income level. ie where Rudd’s Great Big New Tax, starts to hurt people who in reality can afford to pay a bit extra anyway.
This is to appeal to the “why should ‘I’ pay extra when others earning not much less than ‘me’, are actually $50 a week better off?” Tapping into potential dissent in that middle and upper income demographic that Howard massaged so well with his middle class welfare initiatives.
It’s a bit like addiction. Once hooked it is hard to give up and that feeling is what Abbott is aiming to tap into.
Rebecca Wilson would make a good frontbench Liberal. She use to be on an Abc show a few years ago, i either turned it off or switched channels.
That cockatoo voice and nonsenical ideas, i do not how Tony Squires could stand her.
Don,
Interesting that you should say that Don because all the teachers I have spoken to about it don’t seem to be bothered with it at all.
I think the Teacher Unions are running a separate agenda and are out of step with the majority of their membership.
Don’t be surprised to see the noise factor from the Union Officials, gently and quietly disappear as their members let their feelings known up the chain through their Delegates!
Wot no SBS gig.
I didn’t say he was the first Nat Senator to be in the shadow cabinet. Qld Nat Senator John Stone was in the Shad Cab 1987-90, when he was defeated trying to shift to the Reps (beaten by Somlyay at Fairfax). He was in fact Shadow Finance Minister IIRC.
1079
If a few conservative politician start thinking ( I know it’s hard to get the two together) then they would realise that moving to a carbon neutral economy will increase economic activity and remove the risk of stagflation. Much more useful than another war.
I suspect Turnbull’s problem is he is a liberal and can think.
What on earth do you mean “transition to high inflation”?
How? If economic growth is low, then there isn’t excessive demand for resources, so inflation won’t increase.
We aren’t in the 1970s anymore. Most countries have very low tariffs, which means countries can effectively import deflation from developing countries. That’s what Australia does, the cost of cheap Asian goods has actually declined in real terms over the last decade, which partly cancels out domestic inflation, mainly the increasing cost of domestically produced food.
The Zim scenario is in no way analogous to the U.S. or U.K. You can knock a few percent of GDP off the U.S. economy, and guess what, it is still worth $14.5 trillion.
By printing money the government is essentially borrowing some GDP from the future, when the U.S. economy comes roaring back it will be growing at 4 or 5%.
If the U.S. reserve has to start putting up interest rates, then that would be GOOD, because ONE reason we got into this mess is that idiot Alan Greenspan leaving interest rates too low for too long, which helped create the housing bubble, and created the impression that credit would ALWAYS be cheap, which everyone knows is just not possible if you want stable and sustainable growth.
Good to see the US traders are confident….not.
http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/stocks/more-dow-carnage-ahead-what-to-watch-for/#ixzz0eq8vh3DQ
Do you seriously think Abbott and his cronies give a flying fork about policy, as policy? All they care about is short-term tactical advtange against Rudd. They are trying to find some populist buttons to push – tax bad, boat people bad – so as to avert the utter thrashing they are headed towards at the election. They don’t care what high-end media pontificators say about their bogus policies, because the voters they are trying to scare don’t read high-end media. They are just trying to get through this year without losing 20 seats.
4 teachers in my family, and no complaints. Yes it’s anecdotal evidence I know, but the anti-myschoolerites have been trotting out theirs…
Pegasus #1023
Thanks Pegasus.
Must have a chat with my local MLA. Someone/ department hasn’t been the job properly if it’s a MSM topic & I can’t find a lucid (pref “dot point”) comprehensive article on it.
But if Abbott loses ANY seats then he is gone as opposition leader. This election is his only chance.
Thanks psephos.
John Stone at least had economic credentials – even though in my view he was a dud Head of Treasury.
It is an interesting comparison, will Joyce do a Stone? Stand for the Reps and lose. Who would be the equivalent to Bill O’Chee?
Wasn’t he against floating the dollar? That sums up the Nats economic credentials.
Is there an Australian copper ETF?
Going from say 2% inflation to say 10% inflation
On the other comments on inflation, the risk with monetary inflation (is that tautologous?) is not so much competition for scarce goods, rather a lot more money growth than the growth in goods
fredn – your comment on the war reminds me of the parallels to the late 60s/70s, where the US wanted to undertake both a war and keep domestic spending programmes.
Thomas Paine 1095
seems not on ASX…
http://www.asx.com.au/products/etfs_etcs/types/commodity_etcs.htm
LOL! And how exactly is that going to happen? That’s what you need to explain but haven’t come close to doing.
But when the economy is growing, there will be a “growth in goods (and services)”. So again, you haven’t explained how inflation will increase without economic growth.
Pegasus @ 1037,
My reference was to Abbott’s interview this morning on “Insiders”!
The statement he made this morning may have been intended to convey what he has up on his web-site but is different and was as I commented earlier!
Have a listen to the interview and your veracity of opinion may have to be altered!
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/
OK thanks. I also see the gold, and precious metals mix.
Bill O’Chee and Sarah Extremely-Young are good illustrations of how it is possible to destroy a promising political career by starting it too soon.
1098
Here you go! Not very user friendly I agree though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity_theory_of_money
Basically relates some measure of monetary base with some measure of nominal economic activity – but the extent to which this goes to the price level versus real economic activity is subject to the long and variable lags.
Perhaps more visibly has been recent pricing of commodities. Yes China et al are strong sources of real demand. However, the pricing of most commodities in USD also means that it can be a measure of inflation caused by more USD (monetary looseness); thus for example, could cause inflation in USD terms (but not say EUR terms).
I would think the experience/causation of the 70s stagflation is/was one of the more interesting economic controversies. The extent to which institutional structures (eg tariffs; strong organised labour etc) encouraged/caused inflation is open. Probably a reflection of my advancing years, but I am more persuaded that these factors were more important in thinking of very long term changes in supply curves and that the moves in monetary base was the essential condition to the inflation; and the US experience of breaking inflation through its tighter monetary policy under Volcker is persuasive to me on this.
Dario #109o
National Tests focus on literacy & numeracy – the educational equivalent of focusing on a tall building’s foundations. If kids don’t master literacy & numeracy, they’re, at best, seriously educationally disadvantaged – educationally “stuffed” in fact! There are very few reasons, affecting a very small number of students, why any well-taught kid with an IQ of 85 (75, with good teachers) or better should not have sufficient mastery to cope with society’s normal demands, and those of an appropriate job. All other excuses offers are just “copping out” by blaming the victim – the kid!
With good teachers, kids in a low socio-economic school can equal the results of those in elite private schools – trust me, 2 of my first 4 schools (1960s-mid70s) were in the slums, the other 2 poor semi/rural, and they did!
One result of My School is that there will be some Very Serious Arse Kicking, of principals by Dept of Ed/ CEO/ School Boards; of teachers by principals – and by principals of non-performing teachers. With a lot of luck, there’ll be an end to teaching to the latest “In” ways of “teaching” [" " sic] literacy & numeracy, and a return to “whatever I have to do to get the kid to master literacy & numeracy,” (“look & say”, phonics, whatever) and to hell with the latest teacher Ed Faculty fave.
Re Teachers Unions: At my first “induction” lecture after becoming an “Admin Team” member, a Director, a former TU President, said:
He then added words to the effect that, “You’ll discover that the worst teachers on your staff invariably pay their Union Fees well in advance,” a sentiment repeated by every Industrial Officer I knew – & I knew many!
For a long time, a teacher who didn’t pay Union Fees (unfinancial) was suspended and the Union required to notify the Dept. of unfinancial Members. I believe lists went in long after compulsory unionism disappeared. No one wants lousy teachers, not even IOs who were, themselves, teachers; but Teachers Unions’ are duty bound to look after their interests as long as they’re financial members.
You are forgetting OTHER problems in the 1970s. Most countries had relatively high tariffs, far higher than they are now, so countries couldn’t import deflation. There was also the oil shocks that massively increased energy costs in a very short period, the U.S. even had to institute speed limits and petrol rationing!
Also, keep in mind that Alan Greenspan was one of the monetarists who got the U.S. into their mess. He had this great idea that you could leave interest rates low and you wouldn’t create a bubble based on bad debt.
TP@1088:
TP, I value your occasional snippets about the share market and the US. Much appreciated.
Have all these schools worked out that rorting the NAPLAN results won’t work. If they all improve their results by 10% they all end up the same as the results are compared against each other.
WTF?? Did I just see KK playing rugby on TV???
Shows on
I suspect most monetarists have disowned Greenspan; easy after the fact of the GFC no doubt, but there was a lot of disquiet about the “Greenspan put” well before things went pear-shaped.
I think Volcker is more the monetarists’ policy monetarist.
In a way, the very loose Greenspan policy did cause inflation – except it became manifest in house prices, share prices, etc. Less so in goods (no doubt due to the structural factors you mention like tariff reductions, opening of China etc). Concerns from some commentators are that Ben Bernanke are that these policies are being perpetuated. An interesting site on this is:
http://www.prudentbear.com/
I of course, dont know if there will be a significant rise in inflation; however, I think the economic outlook is very challenging, risk of verious outcomes, one of which could be escalation of inflation. Fortunately, the AU government/RBA seems to be going pretty well working through issues so far.
Yes you did
http://www.facebook.com/khajaj?v=feed&story_fbid=294012148769#!/pages/Premier-Kristina-Keneally/334188725513?ref=nf
Most monetarists have disowned monetarism because of the financial crisis. We are all Keynesians now.
However unlikely that would be, year to year comparisons of an individual school’s scores would still look good for them if they improve by 10%
On the US economy debate- Greenspan was more knowledgeable about, and had studied more details of, the US housing market than any person on earth bar maybe half a dozen over a 30+ year period.
Yet he still persisted with his monetary policy regime that can be pretty much described as Liquidity! Liquidity! Liquidity! as being the answer to every question.
The fact that he spent so much time studying the very market his policies not only ended up destroying, but which ultimately took the US economy and a quarter of the worlds financial system with it, stands testament to just how completely and utterly incompetent that hack was at both his scholarship and his central bank stewardship.
And I say this with a clear conscience of long being a Greenspan critic, from back in the days when it was very, very unpopular to be seen as such.
This Greenspan bloke came into the central bank job with his most recent CV entry being a spiv that advised large amounts of people to invest in the S&L debacle just before it all went tits up.
He wasn’t fit to be a bank teller in Dicktown, New Jersey.
Psephos:
Surely you jest?
Just to add, Central Bankers cannot afford to be wrong – and we can’t afford for them to be grindstone ideological.
We are lucky to have not only Glenn Stevens, but his predecessor and the RBA staff.
When David Penberthy let the Daily Telegraph run with that front page story carrying the headline “Is this Australia’s most useless man” with a picture of Stevens underneath, it was the lowest point in the history of media responsibility that this country has ever, ever witnessed.
The fact that there was only a handful of us in the media that came out and smacked Penberthy around for being a complete arseclown was the moment I realised that 95% of Australia’s media wasnt worth a pinch of shit in a dark cupboard.
Google Earth can’t find Dicktown NJ, maybe it changed its name. There is a Ducktown TN. Is that where Uncle Scrooge has his bank?
Try these Psephos:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Dicktown&state=NJ
http://newjersey.hometownlocator.com/nj/camden/dicktown.cfm
Possum
Do you have a view to share on Ben Bernake?
Maybe they should run a front page picture of Penberthy with the caption ‘Is this the greatest pig in Australian media?’ Problem is there are many who would in the battle for that prize.
The Daily Telegraph should be licking his shoes about now for helping save their jobs. I wonder if Penberthy or the DT ever sent Stevens a letter of appology?
Laocoon – he’s the poor schmuck that’s left to clean up the mess. Considering the size of the monetary turd that Greenspan left on the economic carpet of the US and around the world, we’ll never probably know just how good, bad or otherwise Bernanke actually is. He doesn’t really have the luxury of doing anything other than wallow around in crisis management.
Insiders Transcript with Abbott:
And trying to get some reforms through so that future fed chairman don’t have the power to create such a mess.
There’s no town called Dicktown at that location, which is part of the suburbs of Camden, and the sites listed divert to Sicklerville, which is a few streets south. Maybe there was once a locality called Dicktown there, but for obvious reasons the name has been dropped and the area has been subsumed into Sicklerville.
This does lead me to ask, however, how the GFC has affected Scrooge McDuck’s bank in Duckburg. Why has this received no media coverage?
pseph
one of the points he makes is about the reichswehr being an instrument of the state and ultimately this opine lead to the creation of the SS etc.
Granted the book was solely not about his prison experiences,but he does mention it
I can see the distinction tho between [about] and [in]
ps have you read it and his ramblings about the south tyrol?
Here is an article by Paul Krugman about why Spain is in such trouble. Just look at how low Australia’s govt debt:GDP is. (The figures are 2007).
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/the-spanish-tragedy/
Thanks – will be interesting to see how it all unfolds
Mike Carlton takes “Lord Muck” to task!
“Debunking the myths behind the pontificating potty peer”
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/debunking-the-myths-behind-the-pontificating-potty-peer-20100205-nikc.html
Good read.
Thanks, Frank.
http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4691
Gus, I read MK many years ago. I have a German edition but my German isn’t (yet) good enough to read it, assuming I wanted to. I haven’t read the “second book” although it has now been published in English.
South Tyrol was a difficult issue for the Nazis, because it could only be claimed for the Reich at the risk of provoking Mussolini, whom Hitler greatly admired. In 1941 it was decided to solve the problem by resettling the South Tyrol Germans somewhere in the East, although of course they didn’t want to go. In 1943 the matter resolved itself when Mussolini was overthrown. Germany then annexed not only South Tyrol but also Trento, Friuli and Veneto, which of course had once been Austrian.
Possum,
Looking through Greenspan’s Wikipedia entry, It is hard to comprehend how he was given such poor oversight and let do so much of what directly caused much of the financial problems the world is now in.
He seems to be a wizard at deflecting criticism and blame elsewhere. GW cops a well deserved serve but ultimately it was Greenspan himself the was the root cause!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan
1126 – those number don’t seem to match the govt figures. They also assume the family is currently has average consumption and makes no changes to their consumption due to price changes.
Scorpio @ 1099
Before posting I went to the Insiders web site because I heard Abbott speak and I was not going to rely on my memory about what he said. Unfortunately the written transcript was not available at the time. I don’t listen to audio or view youtube clips, etc because I share a pc and we have a monthly internet quota.
You said one thing, Polyquats said something else about what he said in the same interview. I was not having a go at either of you. Politicians repeat the same mantras and spiel ad nauseum so I went elsewhere to find a quote from Tony Abbott.
I will continue to check the veracity of unsubstantiated opinion and comments made on PB.
I hope ONE piece of Labor party advertising during the election is a graph comparing Australia’s sovereign debt to every other country in the world. It could be hand delivered to every house in the country.
Scorpio, you’d be hard pressed to find a person in the last 120 odd years who has created a larger net-detriment to human welfare in the US than Alan Greenspan.
1058 Gary Bruce-
In that Lateline interview, Senator Wong was repeatedly asked if the Government would release the modelling it has from Treasury, showing the costs that would be involved in cutting emissions by greater than 5% (eg 10% – 15% – 20% – 25%). Senator Wong clearly answered in the negative, on the basis that 5% (and only 5%) is the Government target. What they may or may not do if circumstances somehow change at some future point does not change their actual position, which is 5%.
It may well be that 25% is a reasonable target if (and only if) ‘the world’ is on board, however there is still a lot of space between 5% and 25% and and I have seen no convincing argument that a target somewhat higher than 5% is not both achievable and affordable. I have also seen no explanation of how we will achieve 60% by 2050 if we only have 5% by 2020.
As you have said previously, ultimately there has to be a political solution. Hopefully the Government and the Greens can come to a suitable compromise and find two other backers in the senate. If not, we will either have to wait until after 1st July 2011, or until after parliament resumes following a Double Dissolution, to get any compromise through.
This issue aside, I have always thought (and suspected that Mr Rudd thought) that a half senate election, after serving a full term, would suit him best electorally. Given the increased negativity and belligerence of the Coalition however, Mr Rudd may now be more concerned that the Senate will block a great deal of legislation up to July 2011, and may therefore prefer a Double dissolution, in August, to prevent that.
Why do I have visions of Psephos retiring to a place like this
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2010/02/06/soviet_era_latvian_town_is_sold_for_31m/
Scorpio said:
Insiders transcript of interview with Abbott:
I will let the readers make up their own minds.
Pegasus
Should be more of it!
It’s a pity sometimes that people can regularly challenge posters here “without” checking first before they challenge.
I have no problem with being challenged as long as it is a genuine enquiry based on better information than that which I based my statement on and not just a partisan “shot”!
We can all learn from others who have access to better information than we individually do!
Possum,
The beggar should hand back all those awards given to him. He certainly doesn’t deserve them!
In 2004, Greenspan received the Dwight D. Eisenhower Medal for Leadership and Service, from Eisenhower Fellowships. In 2005, he became the first recipient of the Harry S. Truman Medal for Economic Policy, presented by the Harry S. Truman Library Institute. In 2007, Greenspan was the recipient of the inaugural Thomas Jefferson Foundation Medal in Citizen Leadership, presented by the University of Virginia.
On December 14, 2005, he was awarded an honorary Doctor of Commercial Science degree by NYU, his fourth degree from that institution.[78]]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan
Pseph
In the book the main reason given that H. didnt publish was the fact you mentioned
ie he didnt want to upset M.
The book was written in late spring 1928 and the South Tyrol issue is mentioned frequently
But interestingly the treaty of Rapallo (whereby gerrmans trained in air schools and tank training in russia-in contravention of versailles) and other intrigues also led ultimately to the book never being published in H’s time.
He states that the reichswehr role in suppressing his putsch led to his insistence that the wehrmacht stay out of poice affairs and the creation of the SS and gestapo.
Pegasus,
Not quite sure where you were going with that?
The comment you referred to was a follow-on from an earlier one where I questioned Abbott’s figure of $80k per annum for a NSW teacher.
It follows then that “if” it can be deduced that he was referring to a “family unit” in his Insiders address, that the nurse would be only on $40k if the teacher was on $80k!
Or alternatively, both the teacher and nurse singly were suddenly on $120k “each”!
Either it was a “slip-up” or Abbott was being deliberately obtuse and happy for people to make their own assumption about the figures he quoted!
those money hungry greedy US Banks , offshoots & cronies living off & there bonusess etc that helped GFC get my contempt for misery they’ve caused far & wides
ron
if you believe sarah palin its all barry’s fault and the yanks are putting their children inyo debt
Yi Yi Yi
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/sarah-palin-tea-party-speech-video.html
Pegasus
Posted Sunday, February 7, 2010 at 10:57 pm | Permalink
Insiders transcript of interview with Abbott:
“A nurse and a teacher with two kids on $120,000 a year, they’re going to be $668 a year worse off, even on the Government’s own calculations. She says 92 per cent of families will be compensated”
‘I will continue to check the veracity of unsubstantiated opinion and comments made on PB.’
I already do Found
PB a model of accuracy ,
well maybe not troothy , PY & Bob 123456
but you could use your time on Abbott acuracy , a serial liar
like th $668 figure is plucked out of what but you accept it Yet it apart from relevent othr deductions depends on incomes of both each & indiv tax payable
apart from he does not say ‘combined’ income anyway
Gus
i said its mainly Dems congress since end 2006 who passed all those Bills & deficits & increasing debt
Briefly about 5 hrs later posted a chart that proved my case showing rise of USA debt to GDP from 2006 spiking higher & highers rite up to now And it will keep going w/out rein in
As to POTUS’s Bush & Obama natural they share blame , but my focus was on Dems congress , both houses
please dont bring up Sarah Palin , it sends diogenes into sexuakl overdrive , he;s intimidate by strong women
Ron – #1143
Have you changed your style of writing or is it just that I am learning how to read it.
Ron
I blame GW Bush
from the get go he instituted a lax financial regime and the LTMC was just the start
barry is in the role of FDR and needing to create a ‘new deal’
GW is already ranked as the worst prez and his band of neocons rooted the world financial system
I doubt the house or senate dems had the balls to stand up to GW.
Remember GW had already sold the farm before barry took over
Neilsen 54/46
CPRS has 56% support.
43% support government’s climate change policies, 30% support Abbott’s.
Rudd’s approval 60%, Abbott’s 44%
Prefered PM 58/31 in favour of Rudd
http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-leads-poll-revival-20100207-nksn.html
STRANGEGLOVE
ABC 1
NOW
Take a look at the headline will ya “Abbott leads poll revival”
When I saw that I thought “Oh no.” Then had a look at the figures. Umm, not bad.
Unfortunate Gus stats ar as i said
from end 2006 fro Dems controlled both Congress houses
there ar enuf othr issues that alone make Bush prob worst POTUS in US history anyawy
Also there is terrible role of Greenspan , who Reserve Chairman had responsibilities as well incl credit worthiness critwria & liquid
Then there’s th 1998 Finance Steagle Act that got repealed that had lasted some 60 years
so alot of players incl Obama & Bush , but over in USA its all one sides fault or t th othr But it is not so , so among all blames to go around thats why selected Dems 2 houses for actualy passing Bills that created monster deficits & debt (grafs show this there from 2006) , with other players also in blame rings abit
IT’S THE NARROWING!!!
NSW looks like a problem. According to Tony Wright’s article:
Probably a relatively small sample though.
Abbott’s a one trick pony. When the honeymoon and novelty wears off where will he go then?
When the campaign begins they’ll distinguish. How can’t they with Rudd’s picture everywhere.
Yeah, and they did terrible things like passing the biggest reform of lobbyist rules ever, and passing an increase to the minimum wage. How shocking!
Mean while you completely ignore the Bush tax cuts and Medicare prescription drug benefit that caused 2/3 of the debt.
Today, the opposition will be embarrassed when former leader Malcolm Turnbull speaks in favour of the ETS in the parliamentary debate on the government’s revamped legislation, which is based on the deal done with Mr Turnbull that cost him the Liberal leadership. The former opposition leader has said he will cross the floor on the legislation.
The Age.
Is that right? If they are simply going to re-run the same bill as was presented before what is the point.
Skilled migration changes:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/crackdown-on-skilled-migrants-20100207-nksr.html
It will demonstrate that the Liberals are still bitterly divided on the bill.
Interesting how this support figure closely mirrors the Labor 2PP figure. (allowing for MOE)
It shows that voters are supporting Labor “and” the ETS in roughly equal measure. To me that spells “fail” for Abbott’s plan.
People “want” action on CC!
Mr Stirton points out that while Mr Abbott’s numbers are a significant improvement over Mr Turnbull’s final poll, Mr Turnbull had a similar start to Mr Abbott.
And Mr Abbott’s debut net approval of plus-three is ”one of the worst for a new leader in the 37-year history of the poll. Most new leaders get a net positive score of 20 to 30 per cent. But he has muddied the water on climate change and that can only help the Coalition.”
hmmm 6 of one, half a dozen of another
Show off
already pointed out th USA debt to GDP from 2006 , you nong
and its growing year by year whilst you in deniel with excuses
They believe in it and want it passed. If fails to pass it can be passed in a joint sitting after a DD if they desire to go down that path.
First signs of dissent from within the Liberal partyroom leaked to Glenn Milne:
[According to their Liberal critics,these people have dubbed themselves conservative progressives and are briefing the parliamentary press gallery that they are the future of the party because they are positioned in the centre. On the way through they clip the real Right and the moderates as too extreme to appeal to the electorate at large.
This new grouping is supposed to include Scott Morrison, Stuart Robert, Alex Hawke, Jamie Briggs and Louise Markus. According to their critics they use their genuinely held Christian beliefs to showcase their self-proclaimed social conservatism. But what really drives all of them is what drives all politicians in the end: self-advancement.
Which means the group has also been rebadged within the party room as the ambition faction. What annoys the real Right is that they see this collection as arbitrary in policy terms and only held together by the glue of self-preferment.
Says one critic of the group: "The progressive conservatives dress themselves up in a cloak of Christianity to claim conservative status but are entirely flexible when it comes to applying [or not] any principle to policy decision. They all argued in support of an ETS last year but now argue about how bad it was and how they never really supported it.”]
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/resentment-simmers-as-party-races-to-the-right/story-e6frg6zo-1225827615355
Abbott has clearly gathered up the base. The coalition will not win an election on 41% primary. They’ll need to do a lot better than that, particularly when the Green preferences, I believe, will favour Labor very heavily.
Sounds like the Liberal version of the Obeid faction.
Michelle Grattan is all excited. Game on!
http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-leads-poll-revival-20100207-nksn.html
But comes out with this contradictory piece!
That would make the Opposition minus 110% conservative and plus 10% progressive.
It would be good, though, to have some Liberals come forward with progressive ideas. There’s no hope for the Nationals in that direction.
Scorp
from article
“Mr Abbott’s alternative climate policy – for a fund to finance the reduction of emissions – has also struck a chord. When voters were presented with a choice between the fund and the trading scheme, 45 per cent preferred the fund and 39 per cent the trading scheme.”
needs more exposue of Abbotts majic pudding , not taxing poluters yet somehow reducing co2
Sounds a bit biblical to me. I wonder if Upstairs would own up to him?
Gary Bruce
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 12:28 am | Permalink
“they’ll need to do a lot better than that, particularly when the Green preferences, I believe, will favour Labor very heavily.”
you rite , 75% prefs go to Labor even when greens do not issue a HTV card !
Ron,Shows
Re the USA you are both partially right.
Howard was constrained by cossie and but for that small mercy,we would be in the same boat
rudd needs to reinforce what a danger the abbott/joyce/hockey triumvirate would do to our financial markets
Abbott won’t be able to wear his budgie smugglers after reading that.
He’ll have such a big erection believing he has won back the heartland that he’ll bust the stitching!
Oh and for our fifth columnists
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/neal-claim-nonsense-della-bosca/story-e6frg6nf-1225827626631?from=public_rss
“we will smack you down on the blogs,we will fight you on the airwaves and blow you out of the water with your shite and doubt sowing”
We know who you are
PY
“If they are simply going to re-run the same bill as was presented before what is the point.”
‘It will demonstrate that the Liberals are still bitterly divided on the bill.’
plus Bill may be passed
If 2 libs cross floor again , ar Greens silly enuf to knock back ETS a 3rd time , and look stupid when there own flaw polisy only gives a 5% reducton till 2020 , assuming PY you know your Partys polisy
This comment following Mike Carlton’s article on Lord Monckton is one of the best I’ve read for ages.
http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/debunking-the-myths-behind-the-pontificating-potty-peer-20100205-nikc.html
The announcement of extra federal funding is welcome.
1. $2.5 billion (reported Sunday morning as $2billion) to assist disadvantaged schools
2. An further extra $11 million to assist disadvantaged schools.
Although Sunday news reports indicated the $2.5 billion would be allocated based on the MySchool website, it now appears the $2.5 billion has already, in 2009, been allocated, prior to the existence of MySchool.
The extra $11 million is to be allocated to 110 schools (approx. $100,000 each) and is based on schools who are below both the national average and those for statistically similar schools in all areas on the NAPLAN national tests.
The president of the Australian Education Union, Angelo Gavrielatos, said:
”The $11 million seems to have been an announcement made on the run..
Clearly we welcome any additional resources to schools. But for the minister to suggest the schools need to be publicly ranked for the allocation of additional resources is disingenuous. All other schools that are part of the government’s national partnership for low [socio-economic status] schools were identified last year.”
Controversial My School index to be reviewed
Night all!
Hi
YMP
Fifth columnist of choice on PB
Hope you and your doggie are enjoying your emissions
#1173 – Ron
There were hopes raised this week that discussions (the first the Rudd government had with the Greens – previously Rudd refused to talk to the Greens) might result in a “compromise” by Labor, so that a real action plan for CC could be determined.
It seems instead, the talks have been a waste of time, and Rudd will be proceeding with the Liberal (Turnbull version) bill.
There will be many disappointed people – whose hopes had been raised during the course of this week.
PY
Paid for every single piece of dross in fairy floss
How’s it feel?
New thread.