The latest Nielsen poll has Labor’s two-party lead at 54-46, down from 56-44 in November. The Coalition is up four points on the primary vote to 41 per cent, with Labor steady on 42 per cent (no figure is provided for the Greens as far as I can see). The Prime Minister’s personal ratings have taken a hit, his approval rating down six to 60 per cent and disapproval up four to 33 per cent. The poll is the first since Tony Abbott became Liberal leader, and finds him with 44 per cent approval and 41 per cent disapproval. Kevin Rudd’s lead as preferred prime minister is 58-31, compared with 67-21 in the twilight of Turnbull’s leadership. The sample size was 1400. Elsewhere:
• Imre Salusinszky of The Australian reports Paul Nicolaou, the Liberal Party fundraiser who failed to retain John Brogden’s old seat of Pittwater at a 2006 by-election, will seek preselection for the state upper house. Also in the hunt for the three “at large” positions on the Liberal ticket (the remaining places are selected on a regional basis) are moderate incumbent Catherine Cusack; Peter Phelps, former chief-of-staff to defeated Eden-Monaro MP Gary Nairn (whose alleged political smarts once led him to compare Nairn’s Labor opponent, war hero Mike Kelly, to a Nazi concentration camp guard); Natasha MacLaren-Jones, Right faction state party vice-president and former staffer to Senator Helen Coonan; Dai Le, a former Radio National producer who ran in Cabramatta at the 2008 by-election held after the departure of Reba Meagher; Pat Daley, a former Salvation Army spokesman; and Frank Oliveri, a Fairfield councillor said to be backed by David Clarke. They might yet be joined by Clarke himself if he proves unable to retain his existing position as the candidate representing north-western Sydney. Clarke hopes to retain that position through a deal in which he will back Cusack in exchange for support from moderates. The Sydney Morning Herald reports Clarke’s foes in the Alex Hawke camp claim he could secure as few as 30 of the available 90 votes, with many moderates allegedly refusing to fall in as directed behind Clarke. As well as the Hawke-backed David Elliott, the position will be contested by “Robyn Preston, a Hills councillor, Tony Issa, a Parramatta councillor, and Nick Tyrrell, a Blacktown councillor”.
• Andrew Clennell of the Sydney Morning Herald reports Robyn Parker, Liberal state upper house member and factional moderate, will contest preselection for the Labor-held lower house seat of Maitland after recognising she will be unable to retain her existing position. While it was reported last year that the way had been smoothed for her to win the Maitland nomination through the amendment of the preselection timetable, Ian Kirkwood of the Newcastle Herald reports she faces rival contenders in Maitland councillors Bob Geoghegan and Stephen Mudd and Newcastle councillor Brad Luke. The issue will be decided by 30 local branch members and eight head office representatives on Saturday, February 21.
• Phillip Coorey of the Sydney Morning Herald reports three candidates have confirmed they will put their names forward for Labor preselection in Macarthur: Nick Bleasdale, the candidate in 2007, Paul Nunnari, former wheelchair athlete and adviser to state MP Graham West, and Greg Warren, the deputy mayor of Camden. Hughes is said by Coorey to be claimed by the Right, factional home to candidates Greg Holland and Brent Thomas, but the Left might yet seek to upset the Right’s applecart by putting forward Liverpool mayor Wendy Waller. Both have been made winnable by redistribution and the impending departure of their Liberal members, Danna Vale and Pat Farmer.
4,247 Comments
aww crap!
Political commentators in the MSM tend to be like stock exchange traders lurching from extreme to extreme on small pieces of information. Some of the right wing MSM girls immediately threw themselves onto their backs hoping for penetration so excited were they with Tony.
The change in fortunes I doubt is anything to do with Abbott and more to do with 1. there being a leadership change. 2. The Christmas break where people turn off, forget pretty much what went on before and push the reset button. 3. Rudd Labor is now old news, not the novelty. 4. Giving the new Opposition leader the benefit of the doubt honeymoon.
It was inevitable that the polls would narrow somewhat come closer to election time but 54/46 is still a very handy lead indeed coming into an election as the incumbent. And your leader is miles ahead in satisfaction and PPM.
And danger for Abbott and Joyce coming closer to an election is that people may pay more attention to them and some detail. They should be horrified at the prospect of those two being in government.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/201002/programs/FA0907H001D2010-02-08T213500.htm
Should be worth a look. 2135 hours AEDT.
Something for William – the Follow Up to the Video “This Is Perth”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrRZSN-6rc
The screaming headlines of the Huffington Post…just to help you sleep better.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/europe-risks-another-global-depression/
A good example of how those who have “choice” by virtue of being rich, are able to make a choice of where they go to school. Look forward to seeing a story about a kid who wants to go to another school, but has no choice because of practical or financial reasons.
No thanks, I’d rather go public: website data sways student
Anna Patty examines the claims that the MySchool website will lead to better things -
Reading, writing and number crunching
all governments encouraged high levels of growth because that was what big business wanted, especially property developers, who depended on an ever-increasing demand for accommodation to maximise their profits.
A new anti-population growth political party is proposed to be launched (well until they realise the hoops they have to go through to get registered that is – then it might be a different story)
New party wants population debate
Alas Lisa Carty is no more. The former Sun-Herald NSW State Politics editor is now Lisa Mullins (following marriage to Paul Mullins) and is now working as media adviser to Craig Emerson.
The really important numbers in this poll for Abbott are
He has a barely positive net approval rating. It will take a minor miracle for Abbott to improve on this. I think he is already cactus.
Interesting item on ABC radio this morning (4AM and 5AM but 6AM!). Chris Evans says that Australian authorities were told by people in Australia (refugee advocates, I think they said) that there was an AS boat off Ashmore Reef.
This leads to interesting questions.
Are people in Australia who know that asylum seekers are coming people smugglers?
What’s going to happen to the first journo who publishes a story about a coming SIEV and refuses to name his source?
How are the pollies and authorities going to react to communications between potential asylum seekers and people in the know in Australia?
BTW, listen to Fran Kelly after 7.30 at your own risk. She sounded pretty pumped about the opinion poll just before the 6AM news.
Nearly fell out of bed this morning when I hear News Radios
‘s poll headline – Coaltition’s ETS policy more popular the Labour’s ETS.
Sighs of relief when I actually read the numbers.
As a bonus you would get to hear Fran Kelly talking to Eric Abetz: apparently, he has some problem with the government’s IR policy.
No mention of the AS on the 7 o’clock news.
Interesting bit.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/nsw-key-to-federal-labors-worries-20100207-nksq.html
I wonder what the other state figures are?
Thomas Paine said at 2
“Political commentators in the MSM tend to be like stock exchange traders lurching from extreme to extreme on small pieces of information”
Except there are 3 piece of information all showing the shine had came off Labor and Rudd and disapproval is up significantly.
The danger of Abbott and Joyce being part of a government…. umm that was 3 years ago …. when the inflation genie was out of the bottle …. oh wait interest rate is higher now than before
Interesting analysis by Jim Middleton talking ‘newspapers’ with Triolio and O’Briend. He was all smiles about the Nielsen poll but gave no figures. Just said Tony Abbott has changed everything. Also said that Northern NSW & Qld were ahead for Abbott.
Radio networks in NSW, above the Hunter and Qld to the Sunshine Coast have been bagging the Govt. heavily for the past few months. They’ve been pushing Plimer & Monckton and the World Govt./Communism theme. It’s revolting here but I am hearing more and more people in my area talking about it as tho it is gospel. It’s becoming difficult to persuade them otherwise.
The Govt. really need to up the ante in these areas and explain themselves.
Had a professional friend yesterday tell me that the Govt. has not sent any asylum seekers back but let’s them all in. When I said that there had been returns she said she was sure there hadn’t been because it hasn’t been reported anywhere.
The way I see it is that the ETS is dead and gone. B.Brown has just said on ABC2 he will not support Labors current ETS and the voters are cooling on the Idea.
The Greens blew it when they had a chance to join the 2 Liberal senators crossed the floor.
The Rudd media machine is asleep. That’s obvious from the Neal fiasco.
When the current ETS bill goes before the Senate and gets defeated that will be the end and want be mentioned or very little mention will be made on the ALP ETS
PY #7
This guy has opened up with a fundamental error.
There are many people who are disturbed by a population projection of 35 million, but that doesn’t mean they would embrace a zero population growth target like this.
#19
To my mind a 2 children per family limit should be encouraged – at least to the extent of providing tax disencentives for those having more than 2 children per family. Any growth above that can be obtained from immigration.
Why immigrants?
Did I just hear Abbetz drone to Fran Kelly about Gillard and Labour using anecdotal evidence on WorkChoices minutes after he used anecdotal evidence on the popularity of TAbbott and his so-called Action Plan on CC? Fran didn’t pull him up on it, naturally enough.
Will have to check the transcript, don’t think I could stomach listening to it again.
To make up for the shortage under the 2 children per family program. Otherwise you would have negative growth (a declining population).
PY #20
Encouraging a cap on children per family will be extremely difficult in Australia. (I wouldn’t be a huge fan of that myself).
We are told that population growth is driven 65% by net migration, and 35% by birth rate.
It would be easier to alter the future polulation number of 2050/35 million by moderating the net migration number
Yeah, very clever but only telling half the story. Interest rates are lower than when the Libs were in power, much lower.
Or we could just provide really crap healthcare!
Is 54% – 46% good for the government? Is 60% – 33% a bloody good approval rating?
Is 58% – 31% still massive in the PPM stakes? I think we a losing sight of reality here. Under normal circumstances these a tremendous numbers for any government going into an election year. Anyone expecting a government to be getting a 58% TPP at an election is dreaming.
Another policy would be to have a CTS (Children Trading Scheme). Someone like me, who will never have children, could sell my right to have children (well 1) on an open market via the taxation system. The children trading market would establish the market price of children (we all know how perfect markets are- NOT). The price I receive, would not be paid to me but my tax rate each year would be reduced by a certain amount. The buyer of the extra child on open market would have his/her tax rate increased by a similar amount.
We could rename it the humane euthanasia program.
Just kidding…I don’t think thats a good idea.
You could even say anyone expecting an election result of 54/46 is likely to be dreaming. It will likely be much closer.
Maybe.
I agree with Thomas Paine’s comments (2).
I wonder what the latest smear will be from our resident fifth columnists?
Sad really but a reflection of the total lack of policy or values that drives the Liberals
Anything less than 100 seats to labor will be a defeat for the australian way of life.
I think we are seeing here in Australia why the world is doomed if the scientists are correct. Nothing will be done to correct CC either here or world wide.
Isn’t this exactly what was said about Rudd and Swan in Opposition by Liberal Party ‘observers’?
Let me count the differences in circumstances. I’m sure I don’t need to go through them but one main difference is that the Libs tried to tell us Rudd was something that none of us saw. Labor is telling us that Abbott and Barnaby are something we are all seeing clearly. The incompetence is on show for heaven sake.
Anyone else watching estimates? Today’s question: Is Senator Barnett the biggest moron who ever drew breath, or what?
Now we are seeing a change in narrative.
Last week CC was just a “political issue”, not a real one.
Who said that?
I’m sure he’ll have some serious competition over the next few days. Wait until we get to the PMC Department questioning.
I posted the above yesterday. It looks like nothing has changed this morning on the media.
There was NOBODY from the Govt side to counter the great big “tax” thing, on Radio RN (With Fran and La Gattan wetting themselves over Abbott as per usual), then more freekicks from Erica Betz.
Then Skynews with more freekicks from Barnyard, then a Labor Parl. Sec. trying to explain ETS with about 6 bullet points. With that PYT reporter Ashleigh Something lost in translation.
And Rudd is supposedly to have more credibility on CC than Abbott, but is he leveraging this? NO.
The real question is incremental increase in Green Party vote, especially indicative of senate vote. The 2PP is seats on the titanic. These guys are detergent brands same factory. As Jack Mundey on abc radio said last Friday ecological socialism is the moral case of the future. Greed is so 20C and younger generations get it. What was most instructive was how “uncorruptible” and the “huge amount$” in bribes offered to the green ban BLF under his leadership until the major parties and business installed Norm Gallagher, destined for criminal convictions.
Mundey works with … The Greens.
I agree Barry, however the way it stands now, like the Republic, the ETS is dead and the Greens are still wanting an unrealistic target for CO2.
People have been saying that about the younger generation for the last 40 years to my personal recollection, and probably much longer.
The Finnigans at 41 said
“I am sure if a poll is taken with punters with the question: “Do you agree about putting a price on pollutions and the polluters will have to pay”. Overwhelmingly will be yes and yes.”
That is just a simplistic approach of looking at it
The polliters have to pay ….. who are the polluter ….. so the burner of coal who give us the parts and electricity to fuel our big screen tvs have to pay more ….. guess who they will pass this down to.
And this will be added to the cost of compliance of each firm to the ETS, and then the government will have to ensure compliance with the tax and collect the tax
At the end of the day, Australian consumers will have to pay for this tax, the compliance cost, the collection cost, the transfer cost, and what is left might be paid back to some of us
Lets post the real question. ….
I am sure if a poll is taken with punters with the question: “Do you agree about putting a price on pollutions and we will have to paid or forced to give up our flat screen tv, our computer etc are you happy to really do it”
HOw about the greens on this blog, the fact that your computer is on is contributing to our CO2 emittion, are you happy to give up posting
Peter Young at 28
Possibly also a CRS (Chidren Rental Scheme). Quite an interesting business model where parents would be willing to pay to get rid of the kids for a while, and borrowers would be willing to pay to get a kid for a while (great to see kids’ movies with; sympathy from shop assistants etc). Get money coming and going. No doubt Macquarie Bank could refine this modest proposal.
Business opportunities for everyone with the right attitude.
Which probably explains why my children and their peers have so many more gadgets than I do.
I think that a lot of what you have you take for granted (and therefore wanting it isn’t greedy in your eyes, but necessary).
As for the whole ETS kerfuffle – if the CPRS is rejected again, and Labor sticks with is (as I expect them to), does this mean people will stop accusing them of only making easy decisions?
Anyone read superfreakonomics- a whole chapter on climate change- the main point too little too late. No one is willing to make any changes.
It is proposing the only solutions as sulphur dioxide into the stratosphere, or production of more clouds through sea spray.
Here in Australia there is a price Aussies are willing to pay. I think it would sit around the $400 mark per household. Any higher and there is mass attrition. Get to $1000 and you probably lose 70% not good!
GB #32.
I agree; although I would add an additional contribution from deflated expectations following Copenhagen to the small drop in ALP 2PP.
Copenhagen failed, but not because CC deniers had the ascendency.
It failed because CC believers couldn’t agree on a way forward, and that puts a serious dent in Rudd/Wong’s approach.
Let everyone be aware of the dangers of gas power:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/killed-in-power-plant-blast/story-e6frea6u-1225827676466
I’ve never said it was JUST a political issue.
Psephos 44
Supposedly Socrates said…
I said I was looking at the the political side of it.
Good grief the headless chickens are back again. It didn’t take long…
Finns
I’ve been telling anyone including you that the ETS has been sold terribly. How else can people explain why Abbott’s ridiculous plan to increase emissions by 17% is preferred to Rudd’s ETS.
ETS should be a walkover for Rudd over Abbott. Abbott doesn’t even believe in CC and his policy reflects that.
I think a DD on the ETS is well and truly dead in the water.
ETS will be shelved I’m afraid. People will wait for the scientific world before wanting anything done
WTF? The scientific world has been explaining that global warming is a problem for the last 2 decades.
Err, according to this poll Rudd’s approach is preferred over Abbott’s.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/labor-moves-on-pyne/story-e6freb9u-1225827617147
Rick Sarre’s homepage:
http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/StaffPages/RickSarre/
GB
They asked the question in two different ways.
It failed because China sabotaged it, and for no other reason.
The ALP National Secretariat is vetoing ALP candidates:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/labor-moves-on-pyne/story-e6freb9u-1225827617147
Diogenes
Easily answered
That is because the Australian Public, would prefer it to be business as usual and do not really want to do anything about climate change. As long as any action we take, will not end up making any difference…. ie if our CO2 savings, will just be negated by increase pollution by China and India and our extra cost of business (through the ETS) will export jobs to those country.
They do not want to give up their flat screen tv, their cars, their computers (and postings on blogs like this)
Unless there is universal action and everyone is doing what they are saying. A ETS just does not make sense. In that case, the only action that can be taken is government direct action.
Dio
dovif
There is a counter-argument to that. Plenty of other countries have come up with an ETS (UK, NZ, most of Europe) which has broad public support.
So you have to ask why they want to do something and Australia is more ambivalent (similar to the US).
dovif, 56% want to according to this poll and 54% are prepared to vote that way. That’s a majority isn’t it?
GB
Yes but it actually loses to Abbott’s “direct action” plan whenthey are directly compared. How can it lose to that piece of rubbish?
The Senate doesn’t want it in both the US and Australia.
What in that poll other than that one question suggests Abbott is on top of this argument?
Gary Bruce
There are 2 questions
1. “do people want to do something about climate change?”
2. “do people want to give up their cars/tv/computer to solve climate change”
I would guese the answers are
1. 56%
2. 10%
Unless you really think we can reduce pollution by 80% without a change of lifestyle
Not what I asked dovif.
Diogenes
Australia like the US, Brazil (one of those firmly in Chinas corner) and most of the middle east (less so since fuel already has a excise (ETS) in most countries) are exporters of resources like Coal, Petrol, aluminium etc. The extraction and processing of those (ie steel) uses a lot heat/CO2
An ETS will penalise countries who produces resources or who has to acquire resources (Australia/US/ China/ India) etc much more that a developed country with limited resources production (most of the EU, and NZ – with farming excluded)
dovif – what other questions in that poll other than that one question suggests Abbott is on top of this argument?
For that matter what was the exact question asked?
73 continue
That is because the developed world (EU for example) had acquired their development ETS free shall we say
pseph #62 “It failed because China sabotaged it, and for no other reason.”
That’s a big call. I think China’s sabotage merely masked a myriad of disagreement.
I would have thought that $1,000 per year ($20.00 per week) is peanuts to pay for the future. Don’t know what that $1,000 per year gets. We need 25% reduction now. How much does that cost?
People pay probably $1,000 per year for car insurance. Sell their cars and walk or bicycle. Net result- economically neutral and fitter, healthier, less obese people. Give up one bottle on fancy wine per week.
The less well off will struggle with $20 per week – but there could be some adjustment to make up for that.
You obviously haven’t read this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas
Listening to the Media ie., Radio and TV one would think that Abbot is leading in popularity and in line to win the next election. Nothing has been mentioned about the PPM nor the 2PP numbers, no mention about the fact the ALP ETS is preferred by 56% over the Abbott plan.
GB
I am arguing that Abbott has got this correct much more than Rudd on CC and he is reading the public mood much better than Rudd
While Rudd is still getting a lot of kudos from his mishandling of the GFC, when he really did nothing but madly spend money.
a. I found it hilarious most of the Labor hacks in here never gave Howard and Costello any credit for the economy – it was the mining boom….. but when Rudd gets the same help during the GFC and spend the savings from the mining boom …. the labor hacks suddenly does not think the mining boom was such an issue clouding Rudd’s great-less
b. none of the Australian bank failed or came closed to failure, becuase we had a strong regulatory environment …. which Rudd had nothing to do with
c. meanwhile when the rest of the world is cutting spending Rudd was Gocery choicing, fuel choicing, and spending 16 mill on the boardbane network … all becuase of the mining bloom again
No we can’t except to the extent that existing lifestyle components can be replaced with non-polluting components.
So any work on “replacement components” is just as necessary as cutting out “polluting components”.
Time to really reflect on whether we want existing lifestyles anyway. Which brings you to the question of the purpose of life. If the purpose of life is “to be happy” – then if you change your idea of what makes you happy, a lifestyle change is not a disaster anyway. If the purpose of life is to acquire as much wealth as possible, to own a house (or in Matt Browns case a dozen), to have a huge salary (in Bob Carr’s case it is reportedly $500,000 per year from Macquarie bank) or to have regular overseas trips by aeroplane – then you are going to be unhappy with the lifestyles necessary to save the planet.
Dovif
Howard had already wasted $315b from the mining boom before Rudd was elected.
We are fortunate enough to live in a country where people are free to figure out their life’s purpose for themselves.
Why are all the conservatives who come onto this blog incapable of doing anything but reciting Tony Abbott’s latest talking points, and even doing that badly?
SO
If that natural gas explosion which killed 50+ people had’ve been a nuclear explosion, the anties would be calling for the closure of all nuclear plants. We’ll see how if anyone asks for all natural gas to be shut down.
I suppose the bottom line is billions to make little difference, or millions to make no difference. People are going for the millions to make no difference unfortunately.
They are happy with planting a few trees,believing they are recycling some of their garbage, turning off lights not being used and worrying about their footy teams performance, and planning the next holiday.
I’m waiting for Gusface (Betty) to make exactly that argument. If he doesn’t, then he is obviously a hypocrite.
Only to the extent they are able to resist being brainwashed by the constant bombardment of advertising, aspirations by osmosis and preaching of pro-development politicians.
Anyone who believes in free choice has probably been brainwashed by the Pope into believing that people have a choice to sin or not to sin. Thus they are likely candidates for future brainwashing by other agencies.
Show’s on – I’ve read lots of articlesthat blame China for the Copenhagen debacle. I would add that CC believers who ramped up expectations should carry some of the blame, and that China’s scudding actions masked further hurdles to agreement.
How does this impact 2PP preferred figures in Australia? I have two points:
1) Unless China is considered to be a Climate change denier’, Copenhagen failed because the nations that believe in Climate Change could not agree.
2) This opens up the idea for swinging voters that there are many ways to skin the Climate Change cat. Pre-cppenhagen, Rudd/Wong were successfully asserting that you either support ALP’s ETS or you are a denial dinosaur. That assertion is now weakened post-Copenhagen.
Of course individuals should change their behaviour in order to use less resources, and make better use of what they do use.
But we can’t forget the fact that a country like Australia needs to DOUBLE its electricity generation capacity by 2050, even assuming we improve efficiency across the board by 15%. Individuals can’t double electricity generation, that is something that can only be achieved by Government planning ahead.
There’s no evidence that advertising brainwashes people.
Where is your evidence that everyone is brainwashed? How is it that everyone else is brainwashed, but not you, what makes you immune to this brainwashing?
I’ve just had to send OH back to the garden – he was yelling at McDonald and then Abetz.
What on earth is Abetz on about! He thinks most of uswould be worried about a date being changed – the bloke is demented.
ShowsOn – thanks for the link to Tiser re Sturt preselection. Sounds pretty good so hope he runs and gives Pyne a jolt – right out the door, i.e.
The blame for people being ignorant of the consequences of CC and go for the soft option can be laid swuarely and firmly at the feet of one bloke. He won’t lift a finger unless there is some political benefit in for himself.
a. So he is happy to stand by and see an injustice perpetrated against a person, when it lies solely in his power to fix it. Personally don’t like the woman myself, but she is entitled to a fair go, to due process.
b. So he fails to go out and educate the community about CC and explain how it is to be tackled, because he made the call that it would benefit him (forget the planet) politically more if he didn’t.
:angry:
Gary Bruce @ 34 wrote:
Humanity has failed miserably every time it had to deal with having fouled its nest. I don’t expect it to do any better this time round. Greed and short term self-interest will win, both at the political and personal level. They already are!
Some CC scientists are predicting temperatures could rise by 4 degrees as early as 2060 and at least one, Kevin Anderson, the consequent death of about 8.5 billion of the expected 9 billion humans, either through direct CC effects or the wars that will break out as a result. I doubt many of the predicted 35-40 million Australians will be among the survivors. Indeed, we’ll probably be among the first to go.
Diogenes @ 56 wrote:
IMO, it hasn’t been sold at all. It has been more a matter of going through the motions rather than pushing it as “the greatest moral issue of our time.” Mostly, the ETS has just been used as a political points scoring/wedge weapon.
Contrast how the ETs has been sold compared to the GST. That initially was as popular as herpes, but Howard fought tooth an nail to get it up and won an election in which is was the centrepiece policy. Does anyone expect Rudd to make the ETS the centrepiece of the next election? I bet it hardly gets a mention.
Not that it matters much. The ETS as initially presented to parliament was already a deeply flawed policy that would have done nothing to lessen our impact on CC and would probably have set back effective change for years. Accepting the Lib amendments just made it worse.
I’ve never been convinced that Rudd really cares that much about CC either. He showed more passion during the Ute affair than he ever has over CC. Sure, had the ETS gotten up he would have run with it, but it was just a political tool, initially to beat Howard over the head with, and then wedge Nelson and Turnball. The only one to have shown real passion and commitment, even to the extent of nailing his hide to the mast over it, has been Turnball. Not that it stopped him adopting some very polluter friendly policy.
weak as piss AL
I expect more from you
2/10
Will the people in Stoneyfell, Beumont, Burnside et al vote for a Professor of Law instead of a career politician? That’s basically the question. It doesn’t seem to matter if Labor gets 10% swings in the north of the electorate if they can’t get a small swing in the blue ribbon Liberal suburbs.
Hi Betty,
As expected, you are a complete hypocrite. You should now be demanding that all gas fired power stations be shut down.
bok bok bok bok BGERRK!!!
AL
Sorry your convoluted logic is a bridge too far for me.
try anotherr flavour
???? Gus, when did you do the sex change??
I know you are. It’s a pity the polls aren’t backing you up.
Herr Doktor, so it’s the fault of the Pei Ping Bandits. Coming from the great expert on China and its history, it makes perfect sense. You should stop buying “Made in China”.
54/46 equals 97 labor seats
That’ll do me
Lets not forget that Abbott is getting away with the con that his CC policy won’t cost us a red cent.
When he has to release funding for such “policies’ come election time he will be stuffed.
Just one flaw in that argument however. The GST cost Howard a huge number of seats and fortunately for him he had a huge number of seats to lose. Even on election night the Libs at some stage thought they were gorn.
Cant wait for Ken Henry’s mob to go through Barnaby’s and Abbott’s election costings
Betty, your hypocrisy is a bridge too far for everyone.
Making lifestyle changes to a low(er) carbon emitting society would no doubt be hard. However, these changes are best done gradually to minimise the adjustment costs (consider, for example, the long term change from leaded petrol).
This, and the balance of the consequences of risks (i.e. doing nothing might have really extraordinarily serious consequences), is why I think we need to start NOW (or preferably years ago), even if smaller scale to help the adjustment be more gradual
Apparently pumping enough sulphur dioxide into the sratosphere which will cool the planet by 1C will only cost 270 million
Diog, wRONg again. When there was a mutual support for ETS between Labor and Liberals under Turnbull. There was no great need for the propaganda war to sell ETS. It’s only after the take-over by the skeptics in the Liberals, and with their great lie of the ETS being “great big tax”, the propaganda war becomes necessary and imperative.
Try again.
This is almost the end of the world as we now it. NSW now makes more wine than SA.
Oh the humanity!
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/not-enough-water-to-turn-into-wine/story-e6frea83-1225827615791
Apparently Turnbull will make his CPRS speech BEFORE Question Time. First we have to listen to Denis Jensen detail his conspiracy theory.
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/asx1/hms935a.asx
Finns
Even then, there was the need for the ETS to be sold. You just have to sell a big policy like that whether you have bipartisan support or not. Otherwise you are at risk of losing your bipartisan support as the opposition see an opening.
The proof has been in the pudding. It should have been sold much better.
All Abbott has done is consolidate the base.
The ALP pv has remained stable after Abbott became leader. The Greens vote also, if not increasing. So where did he get his additional votes from?
What proof?
According to Denis Jensen, there is a consensus that God exists, therefore climate change isn’t real.
He is now quoting Michael Crichton, the guy who wrote Jurrassic Park, as an expert on the history of science.
I don’t know wine was made out of water – why does it cost so much?
GB
The proof is that we don’t have an ETS and Abbott is making hay while the sun shines by putting up a joke of a policy which should get him run out of Australia if the voters had the faintest idea of how bad it is compared to Rudd’s ETS.
Election winning polls for the ALP apparently
So why aren’t the Greens condemning it daily then?
Psephos
Evidently it takes 2000L of water to make one bottle of wine.
They must be big bottles.
But some people just say they support a policy in order to justify their party support!
Do you even think that the people who say they support Abbott’s policy have read it? They say they support the Abbott policy because they want to vote Liberal, and so they want to think that he has the better policy.
It’s a better use of water than using it to grow rice, which we should just import from Asia.
Dario
I couldn’t agree more. I heard Milne carrying on about how Abbott had joined Rudd by not making the polluters pay and welching on CC. It was truly appalling. She could say that she thinks Rudd doesn’t go far enough but his is miles ahead of Abbott’s joke policy.
I have no idea why she’s being such a d!ckhead about it. She’s being totally dishonest.
Jensen:
LOL! According to Jensen, “precious few” Liberal members support an ETS.
We know that it is actually about 48.
Jensen complaining that Kerry O’Brien, David Koch, and Tony Jones won’t invite him onto their shows to explain to us all how climate change isn’t real.
Precisely
I looked up the figures again for wine and it’s more like 600L of water for a bottle of wine. I think rice is the 2000L per kg one. Beef is even worse.
Trying to pressure the government to deal no doubt. Until the Greens can deliver the senate votes though, that is simply a waste of time. So much for the Greens being above politics.
Looks like every poll (except maybe Essential?) has the Coalition pulling in the lead by about 2 points. It is an achievement for them, at least. Thomas Paine covered most of the reasons for that – and you can add that Abbott’s alternative to the ETS has cut through a bit. Plus the summer hasn’t been a devastating one, like last year, and we’ve mostly avoided extended extreme weather conditions and bushfires etc, so people are forgetting what climate change can do. He’s been lucky there.
So, how can he capitalise on that? Well, er… The ‘Great Big Tax’ mantra has already been overused, and it’s about to get annoying – he’s about to have his “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” moment with it, I expect. He can’t develop his own policy – even the sycophants on Insiders have noticed what he’s doing is hypocritical (though Bolt believes that walking both sides of the road is a brilliant plan – he would). Either you believe in climate change or you don’t. You don’t commit money to something that you think doesn’t exist. He’s already on the back foot there.
Who can he unleash from his front bench? Nobody who can be taken seriously, not that I can see. What other area of policy can he attack? He’s only got climate change and border protection. That’s his total. Border protection is just background buzz – the only party who can ramp it up is the governing one. As an opposition you can only complain. Which has been done, and it didn’t cut through.
All can do is hold the fort and hope Labor fall over. And that the MSM continue to treat Barnyard as a quaint diversion rather than someone subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else.
He’s actually done all right. But he’s used up every avenue available to him.
So the government should invite Xenophon into the discussions.
If this Garnaut / Green plan gets up, it would be hilarious to have it all legislated before the election! Then Abbott’s policy would just become COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT!
Why? X + Greens cannot deliver the Senate. FF will not vote for anything, and no Lib will vote for anything the Greens have had a hand in either.
Who KNOWS what will happen. Did you think the CPRS would be blocked last year once the Liberal partyroom voted to support it in amended form?
What if Turnbull goes out and says he supports the Labor / Green / Xenophon plan?
Who KNOWS what Fielding would do. During the Fair Work Bill debate he SAID he would vote against amendments that he then 20 minutes later voted for!
AND what about someone like Senator Troeth who is retiring. She doesn’t have a pre-selection to lose, so she may do Turnbull’s bidding just to kill off Abbott’s leadership.
Al
how you can equate a tragedy with a line of argument is a tad precious.
If you want debate,great
but if just want to jerk off over plattitudes,keep it to yourself
I resent it when you revert to the intellectual pygmy that you obviously arent
LOL! And you only use the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to argue against nuclear power! MORE HYPOCRISY!
Until you call for a shutting down of EVERY gas power station in the entire world, then you are nothing but a completely hypocrite who doesn’t even have the intellectual capacity to see how big a hypocrite they are.
Oh good grief
You’ve said much the same yourself many times.
Turnbull is speaking in the house now to the CPRS bills:
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/asx1/hms935a.asx
AL
There are bigger fish to fry than massaging your fragile ego
Continue your attacks if it is a form of relief for you
It sounds like a leader speech. Turnbull:
Betty,
Until you call for a shutting down of EVERY gas power station in the entire world, then you are nothing but a completely hypocrite.
AL
BTW
Too much and you will go blind
Betty,
Until you call for a shutting down of EVERY gas power station in the entire world, then you are nothing but a complete hypocrite.
A few points:
- Abbott has achieved a small shift in the polls, some of the base coming back
- The MSM treatment of Abbott has been very soft, and the poll changes exaggerated. They are probably as surprised as we are
- The government is losing the CC debate on best model to combat it. Abbott’s is preferred, as he as presented it as CHEAPER. But its not, the taxpayer has to wear over $3b in other spending CUTS. Where are the cuts coming from, and what is the public support for this?
Turnbull:
Turnbull:
Turnbull:
LOL! The Government is extending Turnbull’s time by 10 minutes.
Surely an indication of how far the Liberal party has moved away from its principles under Abbott’s leadership.
He can talk all day as far as we are concerned
Turnbull:
According to Sam Maiden, Joe Hockey is in the chamber to provide Turnbull with support.
Turnbull:
No, I actually supported the ETS passing, dismal as it was, as it was better than the alternative. And there is a big difference between Rudd and Abbott on CC.
The former believes it is happening, the latter doesn’t.
I didn’t see Hockey. I only saw Georgiou and Broadbent, and later Nola Marino.
I’m wondering why Dio you are blaming Rudd for the Liberal’s change of leadership and direction.
Apparently he walked in late:
http://twitter.com/samanthamaiden
So now whatever Abbott says today is irrelevant, because the main political news story will be Turnbull crossing the floor.
If Julia Gillard is not careful, that Member for Higgins, making her Maiden Speech (?), could be the first female PM for Australia.
I doubt it, she sounds too angry.
Confessions #150
“Surely an indication of how far the Liberal party has moved away from its principles under Abbott’s leadership.”
I’d be interested to see you define (or even find) the Libs principles…..aren’t they deLIBERALly vague?
LOL! O’Dwyer prefaces her comments by saying she risks over simplification, and then proceeds to completely over simplify the last year of Australia’s economic history.
Oh, now she is asking for WorkChoices to be brought back.
Must admit I envy the Liberals a bit. Having such a talented speaker as Turnbull is a great asset. More fool them for relegating him to the back bench.
Yeah Rudd should study that speech closely, it was a good explanation of why the CPRS is better policy.
Joe was leaning forward with his chin on his forearms when malcolm was talking
Joe probably is wishing he had the guts to cross the floor with Talcs
So O’Dwyer wants a referendum for Canberra to take over water policy from the states, but she’s opposed to centralising power in Canberra. Um…
He should at least abstain.
And she says that people and businesses are better at determining how best to spend money, yet she is going to vote for Abbott’s climate change non-policy that is based on the failed 1970s approach to industry policy, i.e. letting government bureaucrats pick winners.
From the Liberals’ website:
Just like Turnbull said in relation to the CPRS, and the precise opposite of what the current Liberal leadership is offering in tackling climate change.
So O’Dwyer wants a referendum for Canberra to take over water policy from the states, but she’s opposed to centralising power in Canberra. Um…
Consistent strategy of the Right. Profess to believe in small government, but create legislation that is the exact opposite of that end while in government.
I have no idea what part of this the modern ALP disagrees with.
ShowsOn@174
The “We believe” part. For this statement from the Liberals to be true it should read:
NEW ORLEANS! NEW ORLEANS!
When you have a major river running through multiple states, and each state is selfish, it makes sense to move water policy to Canberra. She expressed it as exception. It wasn’t a contradiction.
It’s a very good sign for the government to be in front at this point in time…
Mark Davis, Sydney Morning Herald, 08 February 2010
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/alp-the-favourite-as-rudd-and-abbott-enter-the-home-straight-20100208-nlu4.html
Dio – when you’re not too busy could you repost the diet the cancer patient followed after his op please.
I think it started with red grapes for 3 weeks, grapeseed oil, etc. Sorry I didn’t take better notice but rellie is prepared to try it.
Think I need something strong after watching the Senates Estimates this am.
Unfortunately miss Malcolm but caught O’Dwyer. The woman is full of contradictions but reminds me of Bronnie. No – not PM material, but probably will be a very effective Lib poliie.
OK, so let’s say the Fed government holds a referendum, and like 38 / 44 other referendums, it fails.
What would the Liberal policy be then?
Thomas Paine
According to the AFL-NFL Superbowl indicator, New Orleans winning should be a positive for the US stock market for 2010
Compare Abbott in 2010 with Latham at the same stage in 2004. Showed early promise, had Howard rattled but fell badly at the last hurdle. And Latham didn’t have a Joyce to carry as lead in the saddle.
I would want to see a lot more polls showing continuing support for Abbott and the Libs before I believe there is any prospect of the govt being under any threat. Still Rudd may be willing to talk turkey with the Greens on another plan. Even if this doesn’t get through the Senate, Rudd can show how he is willing to be flexible in the face of changed circumstances. Better to go to an election with a climate change plan in place than some pie in the sky option.
I think Troeth could support this option. She is retiring as everyone knows so has nothing to lose. If there is no DD she remains a Senator until June 2011, but if there is a DD this year that is the end for her. How keen is she to stay on for her full term?
The what?
Nice to see some sanity out there for a change. The headless chooks outnumber them unfortunately.
BH@179
That’s strange. When she first surfaced I also got the same impression: enough to start a snarky post about “neo-bronnie”. However when you compare photos they don’t look particularly similar.
Same policy as they will always have, including the Member for Higgins – SerfChoices. OK, so it’s not a water policy, but it is a core policy…
Superbowl indicator is a curiosum of US equity market:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/superbowlindicator.asp
How would I know? Ask O’Dwyer.
Rossco 182
In any event, post whatever form of Senate election, wouldnt the most likely outcome be for a majority be ALP-Green. So would make sense to start work on that possibility?
I noticed that Kelvin Thompson quoted Bob Dylan in his speech and Dr Jensen quoted Britney Spears.
Ah, that’s what threw me. Thought you were referring to some sort of aussie rules and NFL thing.
There’s always a DD
Rossco
It seems they are talking turkey this time as opposed to the last vote in November, when the government was all ‘ducks and drakes’.
The government desperately needs to move beyond 5% – where they are being hammered – into territory into which the opposition cannot go with its ‘recycle your potato peels’ policy. The best outcome now would be to get an agreement with the Greens and Mr X on the Garnaut plan ($20 ton moving to a level in a few years reflecting world progress – probably now around 18% by 2020). The aim then would be to get the remaining support from a Lib in the Senate, or two if X doesn’t come across – although I can’t see why he wouldn’t suppport Garnaut in the end.
Surely this is the best outcome. What could be better, after all in the circumstances? It is still in line with the global target of 450 ppm carbon by 2050.
Turnbull was just delivered the government’s election campaign for the ETS.
And did a nice, professional job on it too. It sure made a refreshing change from that bloviating Barnaby’s bulldust.
Pie in the sky
Yep – wisdom against frivolity. Says it all about Jensen.
Dario
Are writing off any chance of Troeth crossing over? If so, why?
Dario
Why would you fail to make the attempt? That is, if your objective is to get a strong scheme up and running? The Garnuat plan is in line with the science and the economics. It doesn’t require a 2020 target just yet. It has a price on carbon straight away. Eveerything about it is right. To miss a chance to put it to the test would be sheer negligence. Anyway, why else is the government now negotiating with the Greens? If Turnbull were to cross the floor on the Garnaut plan, should it emege from the talks, might not a Lib or two in the Senate?
Bronnie: “Poor woman’s Wilson Tuckey” – Tanner – Gold
i think they all hate turnbull- the libs that is
It was a truly classic speech, I thought. The way he introduced the topic with evidence for global and moved through each of the arguments for emissions trading and against the Coalition’s ‘Great Big Con’. I couldn’t really fault it as a piece of elegant, persuasive rhetoric.
Its only lacking was that it wasn’t fertile lode for the pithy, punchy phrases that Labor might have wanted to mine for electioneering soundbites. Turnbull speaks at a level that makes short dumbed-down phrases redundant.
Still, I’m sure the good guys are going through it with a fine-toothed comb picking out what might be useful.
Yes, that quip of BB’s didn’t turn out so well.
The Liberals have taken a leaf from Labor and plonked Kelly O’Dwyer right in line with the camera.
In which case she needs to learn some self discipline and not flirt and gossip with her neighbour while others are talking.
Not a good look.
Zoomster – O’Dwyer’s first day was awful. She didn’t stop laughing and talking all QT but I thought, give her one day. She’s unable to stop tho and has done it every day since. Certainly not a good look. If it was a Labor woman we would already have had comments from the Oppn.
There is only 1 option in my mind regarding Turnbull… and thats a complete and total sacking from the Liberal Party.
I wish Abbott would learn his subjunctives. Not “…that this House censures the Prime Minister,” but “…that this House censure the Prime Minister.”
Psephos (44 at 9.58am),
In regard to the myth of young people being morally superior:
1) How come all the previously morally superior young people turned out like their parents and grandparents?
2) I ran into a Maoist from LaTrobe some years ago and asked him if he were still politically active. He said something about the mortgage.
I responded (440 on the Newspoll thread) to your asking me about my thoughts on MySchool. I don’t know if you saw it as when I first returned to the thread there was no comment on it from anyone and when I later returned to the thread there were too many pages for me to scan. I think there are two articles of interest to you illustrating the problems with the site:
‘VICTORIAN teachers are being told to “explicitly teach” for the national literacy and numeracy tests as part of a drive to lift the state’s overall performance with the release of nationwide test results….’
(http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/students-get-new-subject-the-test/story-e6frg6nf-1225826908368)
‘WITHIN a few hours of the My School website overcoming its quizzical technical teething problems, the grey gnomes of at least one media empire drew forth from its feverish burrowing that great false grail of accountability, state league tables.
‘Melbourne High School, one of our nation’s most accomplished schools on any measure of academic performance, was ranked by this scurrilous measure as the best performing school in numeracy in the state. As principal of the school, I forewarn that this ranking and the methodology upon which it is based is not a treasure but a piece of crock….’
(http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/why-my-school-fails-the-test-20100207-nk9c.html)
What, for having the integrity to stand by a policy that’s 90 per cent identical to one first advocated by Howard, and that the Liberals took to the last election?
Tony, in his rant against Rudd re broken promises, just reminded everyone of Howard’s core promises. Oh dear, an own goal I believe.
Chris, yes I saw, appreciated and agreed with your post on MySchool.
What are Tone and Joe raving on about, if they are trying to make a point they should make it – not spray around blatherings.
Psephos (44 at 9.58am),
Then, let us hope that even more Labor Party members agree with my post on MySchool. To save others having to find it, the zoom-out view is that MySchool has some value but some problem and you’d be silly to rely on it totally to choose a school and that politically speaking it has been good for Julia Gillard.
Musrum – that was Samantha Maiden’s tweet. Other woman spot the similarity immediately – esecially when O’Dwyer does her hair like Bronnie. I notice today she has gone for the young, leave it long, look.
I see here in Perth 6PRs top rating schlock jock Sattler has the one the only Lord Monotony on this after noon, now that will be intelligent radio,all the idiots together better get Truthy to ring in,and it will be a three ring circus.
Which puts in direct competition with Kate Ellis – she can’t win that one.
A very good reply by Rudd.
Psephos, i heartily concur with your post @ 215!! And if Julia G is looking at O’Dwyers performance closely it will only be to work out the best way to cut her down, IF that ever becomes relevant.
General query. Senate sits 22-26 of this month. So, if the Greens, ALP and Mr X are going to work a deal it should become obvious then?? Anyone know what the order of business for the next Senate sitting is going to be?
ChrisC 212 – I partly agree with you and sensible parents won’t be changing schools in a hurry. It may help some parents, who are hocking themselves to put kids through private schools, rethink their budget and their kids’ education.
I have faith that Gillard will sort out the problems but she gets top marks for getting it up and giving parents the chance to question. It may even help some parents to become more involved with their kids’ school.
Private business constantly assesses and reassesses it staff and outcomes. Why should the taxpayer not receive the same assessments.
I don’t know where this notion is coming from. The Greens, ALP and Mr X do not have a Senate majority. So what is the basis for a deal? The Greens’ whole political strategy is based on positioning themselves to the left of Labor on climate and other issues. They have no motive for doing a deal. So far as I know Xenophon still opposes the principle of the government’s bill.
BH,
There is nothing wrong with the taxpayer getting assessments, but the whole assessment of staff thing that has infiltrated schools from the private sector is a pointless, ineffective merry-go-round. I say that from having done assessments of other staff. Personally, I refused to be assessed even though it cost me several thousand dollars in bonuses under the previous government. I regarded it as unprofessional and still do.
The NAPLAN tests proved information from mostly computer-corrected multiple-choice tests, which by their nature leave out a whole lot of valuable stuff done in schools, and I don’t just mean touchy-feely stuff, but higher order thinking skills.
The problems in MySchool will get sorted out to make it a more rounded site, but it can never substitute for a first-hand look at the school you are considering for your children.
MySchool won’t make parents more involved. Involvement in this state has been through school councils, which have been in place for 35 years. MySchool is a consumerist approach, not a participative one. It provides useful information, but that is all, and it has already been misused, as the AEU said it would be.
Could the Libs lose another unloseable election?
Abbott thinks they could.
[The New South Wales government has seized on instability in the New South Wales Liberal Party, caused by a fierce pre-selection battle for an Upper House position.
Some sections of the Liberal Party are warning that World War Three could erupt if the party chooses to dump David Clarke from his Upper House spot, in favour of the business lobbyist David Elliott.
The Federal Liberal Leader Tony Abbott has written to preselectors warning the party could lose the next state election if it does not preselect Mr Clarke.
Mr Abbott says David Clarke "has been been a force for much needed tranquillity inside the party" and has been unfairly demonised as being part of the "religious right."
He fears that dumping Mr Clarke "could threaten [the party's] election prospects especially in New South Wales”]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/08/2813333.htm?section=justin
What percentage would you say “get involved” through school councils Chris? Have you ever been on a school council where they have had trouble getting members?
Turnbulls a sore loser just like Mark Latham.
He should do himself and everyone else a favour and jump off a bridge. I’m sick of hearing his constant whining “waaaa, no one cares what I want… waaaa, i got tossed out as leader!”
“He fears that dumping Mr Clarke “could threaten [the party's] election prospects especially in New South Wales”]”
No the ALP in NSW are still gone. But turmoil in the Liberal Party will turn a landslide into a bare-majority or even minority Coalition govt. The Coalition not only have to win seats from Labor, but also claw back their heartland from a rogue’s gallery of Independents.
But I love that quote about David Clarke being a “force for much needed tranquillity”. Clarke is the Palpatine to Tony Abbott’s Jar Jar Binks.
(OK, I fess up — I sat through the dreadful “Revenge of the Sith” last Saturday night. But in my defense, I had a hangover and there was nothing else on.)
Psephos
But the negotiations are taking place, and both parties seem serious about what they are trying to do. Or do you think it’s just a public relations exercise by both the government and the Greens?
I certainly don’t think that. Surely there is hope in both parties of a compromise agreement along the lines of the Garnaut plan, and that Mr X can be convinced, plus one tiddly little moderate Turnbullish Lib Senator. Otherwise, what’s the point of the current negotiations?
At least Latham waited till he left Parliament before dumping on his party. Turnbull’s strategy is much more damaging. And fun. I’m starting to warm to Turnbull…
Have they had the vote for the ETS in the HORs yet?
If so was Malcolm the only one crossing the floor and did anyone abstain?
Gary Bruce @ 105
Perhaps so, but as I pointed out, the GST was deeply, deeply unpopular to begin with and it was simply a tax to raise revenue. OTOH, the ETS was very popular initially, its prospect helped win the 2007 election, and addresses a looming crisis.
All it needed was more effort to explain it. Something that they still can’t get right, as QT has just demonstrated. Why, oh, why do ministers stonewall on Opposition questions such as: Will the Minister confirm that Joe Bloogs who earns $120K, has a stay at home wife with 2 dependent kids ages 6-12 will pay $912.11 more a year for electricity with the ETS?
Instead of ducking and weaving wouldn’t it be better to tell it like it is: Yes, if the Bloggs family does nothing to reduce its electricity consumption the family will pay more. However, if the Joe and his wife take advantage of the Government’s free insulation scheme, installs a small solar PV system and converts to solar hot water purchased with the Government’s interest free loan plus takes some simple, low cost measures to cut standby power usage they will be several hundred dollars a year better off, and they’ll have helped keep the planet livable for their children and future grandchildren.
Well, I really don’t know. I can’t believe that the Greens are going to climb down off their high horse and accept Labor’s bill. Nor do I believe that Labor is going to move so far to the left as to give the Greens what they want. It’s all a bit strange.
Not exactly a fair representation of his speech, TTH. As he said within the speech, his position now is the same as it’s been for years, and he said the same things he has said many times before.
Truthy doesn’t believe in standing on principle. I guess one has to have principles to begin with.
Not yet. I don’t know when it’s scheduled.
Thanks triton
But heres the thing: No one gives a toss what Turnbull thinks!
He’s not leader.
He’s not the PM.
He’s not even supported by anyone in his party.
He’s a silver spoon elitist who thinks his views matter more than everyone elses. But it doesn’t.
He was as popular as poo on a shoe, and has been tossed into the bin of irrelevency. He needs to realise this and move on, instead of being a whiner, loser and wanker.
Sure, stand on principal.
Just don’t assume people will listen to your bullshit. I’m certainly not.
If he thinks he’s so damn important he should start his own party. He could call it the “look at me, i’m a really really important silver spoon latte sipping elitist and i’m much smarter than everyone else” Party.
Oh… and Latham could be his running mate!
From the Marsupial:
Pollytics
Essential Report – MySchool and more Climate Change polling http://is.gd/7UVPU Two Party Preferred 55/45 with primaries 44/38 to ALP less than a minute ago from TweetDeck
Psephos, i can see where you are coming from on the likelyhood of a deal on the ETS.
But, i tend somewhat to jv’s view on this.
IF the Greens and ALP can work a deal that isnt TOO different from what has been on the table before, then its POSSIBLE that they may be able to get support from 1 or 2 Liberal Senators. If they can get X on board, whacko, then they only need 1 Lib.
Or maybe Fielding will vote for it!!
Wongs statements on Lateline last week indicate to me that the ALP/Greens may have some common ground that isn’t too different from what was previously proposed. That seems to revolve around a fixed carbon price for two years instead of 1, as in the “current” ETS bill. However, if there is to be a deal i think the Greens will have to move further than the ALP to get it done. at a purely personal level, whether or not they are capable of doing that will inform how i cast my vote in the Senate next election.
Also, from the politics as blood sport point of view, I would love to see the wailing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments, ashes and sack-cloth behavior that would occur amongst the forces of evil and darkness should something be passed in the parliament that would put a price on carbon pollution now (or at least in the same time frame as the 09 ETS bill), AND that could be seen as a lead in to a full blown ETS further down the track. Politically, i think that would be a major plus for both the ALP and the Greens going into this years election.
I’m hopeful, but then again, back in 04 i was also hopeful that Latham would win and look where that one went.
Rick Sarre is a crack candidate for Sturt. Chris Pyne is facing another nervous election.
I can’t see the Greens and Labor coming anywhere near an agreement, unless the Greens had some sense drilled into their brains during the summer break and have moderated their fantasy-land demands.
Come on Truthy, you lot are a “broad church” who can brook dissent on any issue, unlike the undemocratic communists across the chamber.
imacca
Yes, I think it (meaning the new Garnaut path forward) would at one blow make up for the wallowing of the government since Copenhagen, while also leaving the Libs stuck in quicksand. They cannot move from the useless reduction level of 5% by 2020 with their wishin’ & hopin’ policy. It would simultaneously give Rudd the chance to get his horse back into the lead position in the wagon train.
Continuing to argue about the best means to achieve 5% by 2020 with the Libs keeps the government down at the Libs level. They must go with Garnaut and rise above the fray – assuming the Greens will come down from 40% to the new Garnaut 2020 targe tof 18% ( the new 25%). What better lever to get X and a Lib or two onside – following the independent expert, Prof Garnaut?
imacca
good luck with that
The Greens are a protest party, they get support from people who thinks the ALP are now the Liberals and the Liberals are now one nation
If they do a deal, they will lose all their constituence because they sold out and became the new Labor
The Greens can only exist when they are selling out for 5%
Pancho 241 – yeah agree 100, those communists, who in league with China stuffed up Copenhagen
Gary,
I could not give you the percentage, except to say that it is a minority of parents and always has been.
I have been on four school councils – in West Heidelberg, Rosanna East, Edenhope and Hampton Park – and none of them had trouble getting members.
jaundice view, that is what the conservatives are hoping
Think a tax more regressive than the GST and at 20% and you have an ETS that would work
triton
I agree the Greens must come down from 40%, but everything I’ve heard from them before and after Copenhagen is that they are prepared to negotiate in the range of 25-40%. And remember 25% can now probably be discounted to around 18% due to the Copenhagen outcome. And Garnaut’s new plan is precisely at the meeting point between the two parties ranges. Plus the Greens already support the extended fixed price on carbon.
The prospects for agreement should be quite good objectively speaking. I would love to be a mediator working on it.
dovif
Possum’s Essential report analysis shows support for the Greens ETS already at 17%. If the Greens and govt reach agreement at the Garnaut point I’d predict that support rising.
Jaundice view
Q: Am I happy to save the environment -> 60% support
Q: Am I happy to lose my car/flat screen tv, my computer – so I can post on poll bludger to save the environment -> <10% support
Think about it this way, if you stop using the computer, you will decrease your carbon footprint ….. since you are still online …….
jv, I don’t think there’s any hope of Labor agreeing to 18%, maybe not even above 5%, in the current political climate. It would just give Abbott more ammunition in his “great big new tax” attack.
JV
the other great selling point is
Now that you have made the sacrifice …. welll um, um nothing is going to happen …. because those left wing communist bastards in China had just increased their CO2 production 300% …
Maybe we can shut down our coal mines so they cannot purchase coal
There are 4 options for a CC policy.
A Labor/Green + others negotiated one before the election.
A Labor/Green negotiated one when the new Senate sits in 2011
A Labor one via a DD
A Liberal do nothing option.
The Greens have to negotiate with the Govt. so why not do it now?
Except for one thing, no-one is saying you will lose these things.
I could list mine too and we did have trouble sometimes.
I don’t own a car or a TV, so I think I can keep my computer.
JV – So now 18% is enough? If no, then why not say 5% to start off with, same result.
Because the Greens would lose their biggest vote-winner – “vote for us so that we can have the BoP in the Senate and force Labor to bring in a tougher climate bill.” It’s a powerful statement and has the advantage of being true. If I thought climate was the only issue that mattered – and I’m getting close to thinking that – it would be difficult to resist. If the Greens do a deal with Labor now, if they give away their virginity cheaply, so to speak, what appeal will they have?
There’s a transcript of the Turnbull speech up on the ABC blog ‘The Drum’.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2813351.htm
They had Abbott on the Ten News waving his arms about and shouting. It’s not going to be too difficult for the government to portray Abbott, Hockey (after his tu. tu effort) and Barnaby as loud sideshow clowns, people you wouldn’t want running your country.
Ahh, good old Their ABC:
Some faceless ALP operative should organize a delivery of a truck load of plastic toy irons at Abbotts electorate office. Just sayin…
The Libs are becoming a sideshow act.
254
Living without a car. I approve (I don`t drive or have a car or licence). Lots of walking cycling and PT then.
Anyone who can`t see a comma after “walking” in 262 needs their eyes checked.
For all interested parties:
“Some perspective on today’s Nielsen poll”
http://www.ozforums.com.au/viewtopic.php?id=6780
I suspect I’m the only wage-earning adult in the greater Canberra area who doesn’t own a car.
While the virtuous car-less crap on. Some people need a car.
265
That has to be an exaggeration but it does have bad PT and a very road focussed layout.
I have a car, but I have rainwater tanks, so that’s okay…isn’t it?
266
Yes, SOME people. Not most people. Better PT, walking, cycling and other such things would dramatically reduce the need for cars.
268
No you`ll have to convert it into another rainwater tank.
just dont mention GAS
or Shows and Dio will go berserk self-lubricating
Ttfatb,
What, like Bjekle-Petersen’s water-powered car that you were not allowed to look under the bonnet of?
272
No, a real rain water tank for rain water storage.
I just wish my next door neighbour would hang the washing on the line, instead of using the tumble dryer which is dynabolted to the wall under the line.
Troothy
Your latest talking points
http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4698
Does Sam Maiden know something we don’t?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/tony-abbotts-direct-action-plan-is-fiscally-reckless-says-kevin-rudd/story-e6frgczf-1225827975695
All 3 Independents?
Today’s Liberal Twits, I mean Tweets
Xeno,fieldo and barno ??
How about a Tiger Tank? Then you can store water and invade the USSR at the same time.
Chris Curtis… we were allowed to look under the boot of the hydrogen car, but when the big moment came, and all the assembled media had their cameras ready, it was discovered that unfortunately the driver had walked off with the keys, and the boot could not be opened.
I can not see any Liberal senator voting for a ALP / Green deal, but I am less sure that one would not abstain, or arrive outside the doors to the chamber too late to enter.
Is Joe Hockey really going to cross the floor and vote for an ETS?
The former would work but the latter would just cause a re-vote (as that sought of thing has done in the past).
Betty,
Until you call for the shut down of all the world’s gas power plants, you are nothing but a gigantic hypocrite, and everyone knows it.
No, because he would have to resign from the front bench.
I think what will happen is the Government will announce a series of ‘direct action’ climate change policies in the budget that will actually be costed, which will make the Liberal’s climate policy obsolete.
Thanks Tom. I was not aware of that.
This comment here is a classic example of the disbelief that most rusted-on Lib supporters still have about the electorate having the audacity to throw out their wonderful Howard Government.
Shame, suck on it a bit linger, losers!
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/alp-the-favourite-as-rudd-and-abbott-enter-the-home-straight-20100208-nlu4.html
Fargo61,
A new definition of “allowed”, eh?
Forgetting, Scorpio, that since 1939 at the latest, the Oz Fed Government was debt-free only for a few years of the Howard Government – and during that 70 years, non Labor governments were in power for 45 of them, gaining the Australian Fiscal Wooden Spoon Hat Trick: – worst total debt in real terms; worst inflation in Oz history; highest interest rates in Oz history.
Psephos
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
‘I heard Milne carrying on about how Abbott had joined Rudd by not making the polluters pay and welching on CC. It was truly appalling.’
“(diog)You’ve said much the same yourself many times.”
Finns: “When there was a mutual support for ETS between Labor and Liberals under Turnbull. “
Yes , th Greens STOPPED a vote for a week in Senate in November on Rudds ETS
We would ended up with a ETS NOW , but for Greens hypocracy
There Green Senate voters were NOT needed at all , just for them to shut up in Senate for a week instead of stalling a Labor/Lib suport for Rudds 5% ETS Bill , instead Green staling has delayed Co2 reduction starting in oz
We since had dropping suport for an ETS as I predicted 3 mths ago , because of
Greens very publlic carping uneconamic 25% cuts & at every public appearanse knockin th very Rudd ETS itself So greens ar CC mitigaton vandals just to position to keep there voting base in tact , and therefore has lessened public ETS confidense alot
Queston is this Seeing Greens new polisy IS NOW a 5% cut by 2020 , based on Garnauts own modeling , how stupid will Greens look opposing Rudds 5% ETS now , when there own Greens polisy per there web site is ALSO 5% ?
(now if Troeth just abstains , then Rudds ETS can get passed now , via Greens 5 & Mr X , and maybe Penny is hoping there)
its about time Greens stood for principal in favor of CC mitigation (forget there voters) & suported Rudds 5% ETS before all public belief in an ETS in oz drops to very dangerous politcal levels
Gary Bruce
Yes, as part of the new strategy, because it is the ‘new’ 25% we had to have before Copenhagen, according to Garnaut. The developing nations’ commitments were collectively greater than expected at Copenhagen, so we in the developed world get a discount apparently, and overall the 450 ppm target by 2050 can be met now with 18% by 2020. That’ll do me in these trying circumstances. With the science and economics met in the Garnaut plan, then I’m on board.
The main problem domestically is that the government has let everyone run over the top of them without a bit of leadership since Copenhagen. Hence the poll results today on CC in the wake of the Abbott easy option, and all the sceptic noise that has not been addressed.
The govt needs to get out there so much more pwerfully to make sure everyone understands this is a crisis. As a govt member said after Turnbull’s speech today – Turnbull put the CC imperatives better than anyone in the government has yet.
Apparently – per Possum I think – the government has been inactive on CC because of some ludicrous worry about the male 45-54 demographic.
I don’t either. I walk to work and the new Redex bus service is great for getting into the Civic from my place.
I don’t know if Rudd has a speech writer or word smith but if he hasn’t he desperately needs one. He should put the vanity aside and accept that when it comes to the average non-bureaucrat he his not a good communicator with all that wordiness.
Rudd will get into trouble if he comes up against somebody good at the sound bite and explaining things in a simple matter.
Fortunately he is up against Abbott who can get in some good sound bites but also says a lot of dumb things. And of course Jackass Joyce is good at saying even dumber things.
BH
From looking around, the diet was based on the Brandt-Wortman Grape Diet. There were many other ingredients like walnuts, flaxseed oil, cottage cheese, vit C, berries etc.
On this page, they have a diet called the Hospice Cancer Diet which was similar.
I am in no way saying this will work and my patient may well have just got lucky. The diet looks very heavy duty and anyone starting it should check with their physician.
http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/cancer/grapediet/grape.htm
Ron
To say we would have an ETS now but for the Greens is rubbish. The ALP have made it clear they aren’t interested in the Greens and the chickens will come home to roost, now and into the future. If you hadn’t favoured Fielding over the Greens there would be one less vote to worry about now for a start. Rudd declined to negotiate with the Greens to begin with, abd the Greens did what they needed to do for their own support base, rather than the ALP. The failure of the ETS and the declining support for climate change rests with Rudd and the ALP, deal with it. You’d best hope the Greens and Left voters don’t decide at some stage to stop preferencing the ALP, cause you’d be screwed.
Abbott’s logic that he did not cut Health Spending.
So they reduced the spending rate, but did not actually cut the spending rate. Hmmm
Weasel.
If Turnbull thinks he is Jesus reincarnated, why doesn’t he start his own f’ing party?
Oh thats right.. because he’s a gutless turd, and no one would vote for a silver spoon elitist except for latte sipping inner city snobs anyways.
Diogenes, (off topic) what would happen if a similar case of whistleblowing were to occur in Australia (or South Australia):
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/us/07nurses.html?hpw
If there is one thing Turnbull is not it’s a “gutless turd”. Just ask Kerry Packer or any of the people he has done business with. And watching him go down fighting when the populist denialists took over the Lib Party and dumped him showed he had plenty of guts and determination.
And his electability by punters such as myself?
Oh Truth Hurting … Turnbull’s not gutless. He just believes in something positive, instead of spewing hate all the time. I wouldn’t expect you to recognise THAT.
By the way, still waiting for you to nominate which asylum seeker boat you came to Australia on?
One Nation’s vote peaked at, what, 8% federally? Not a big deal buddy. Both major parties can do without the likes of you.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbotts-ironing-comments-attract-ire-20100208-nmi2.html
Will Abbott be the gift that keeps on giving in 2010?
I’m not a housewife and I iron! (Hmmm, sound like a great bumper sticker)
Poor Mrs Abbott…
If there’s a Gutless turd on here Truthy it you
It all depends on which poll on CC you are talking about.
I reckon though Copenhagen did the cause a big diservice, not Rudd and not Abbott. The e-mail so called scandal hasn’t helped and the mistake by the IPCC. Not a good look.
Darren, I think that Tony is saying that loss of virginity puts women on the slippery road to ironing
Hmm TTH now fixated on Turnbull. TTH really must be worried him.
Should there be agreement with all those concerned, it seems quite easy for the government to implement the Garnaut plan within the original and now re-introduced bill. The first year with a fixed carbon price is already in the bill, so this would just need an extension, and the inbuilt flexibility of the bill would accommodate such an extension, surely. Does anyone remember if the bill’s wording would prevent the proposed extension to the carbon price plus the setting of that price? If it does a small amendment would do it.
Otherwise, the final 2020 target would not yet be set until the global position becomes clearer in terms of realised Copenhagen commitments. But Garnaut said in his 26 Jan speech that around 18% by 2020 looks the probable target to meet 450 ppm by 2050, and this is well within the range of the re-introduced bill with 5-25%. The interim target would be set within 2-3 years or so.
JV, did you see Aristotle’s analysis?
Poor old Bruce Billson – he was meant to only be at the photo-op to be a ‘head-nodder’ but after Abbott said housewives for a second time, he had to interject “or househusbands”. Too little too late for Abbott though!
Abbott will need a 24/7 handler once the campaign proper starts.
Scarpat
I can’t say exactly but I will make a few comments.
1. The anonymous letter would just get turfed in the bin by the Medical Board here so nothing would have happened. For the sake of argument lets say it wasn’t anonymous.
2. Either the nurse has a case or she hasn’t. If she has, the Medical Board would discipline the doctor and nothing would happen to the nurse.
3. If she was wrong but wasn’t acting maliciously, they would just say her complaint was frivolous and nothing would happen.
4. If she was wrong and it was malicious and she faked case records or something, she could get in trouble.
However one of my colleagues did the same to me and the Medical Board just told him it wasn’t interested. Which he did by promptly being suspended, found to be demented and has now died. But that’s another story.
You’d never get banged up in jail for making a complaint unless it was part of a major conspiracy with fraud involved.
OK Mr Lionheart Truthy, if you’re sooo brave, post here under your real name.
As much as I see your scenario as a good one politically for Labor JV I don’t see it passing the Senate.
Gary Bruce
The sceptics have had a free hand on that nit-picking stuff. Of course there will be some errors in any huge document produced by 8000 people. Doesn’t change the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists. It’s just that there has been no concerted campaign by government to win the debate wit the sceptics yet. With almost all climate scientists on your side, that shouldn’t be as difficult as it the govt has allowed it to look over the past 2 months.
Gregor Mendel faked his experimental data, because he couldn’t get his experiments to turn out they way he knew they should. It didn’t stop his theory about genetics being correct.
Just imagine how a Howard Govt would be “selling” an ETS. Billions of Dollars in advertising.
truthy
A few days ago you posted an article by a News Ltd journo getting stuck into the counsel assisting the coroner here in darwin over the explosion on the asylum seekers vessel. Miranda Devine made similar claims, and subsequently posted an apology on her website. Can you post the News mobs apology, and your own. The Truth Hurts
Tone has another millstone around his neck, the honest a straight talking politician. What a title to have to live up to. It will haunt him up to the election.
WTF people WTF!
For ER today via the Possum
Liberals 25%
Labor 19%
Greens 17%
Dunno 39%
And only 44% of Labor voters thought Labor has the best approach to addressing climate change.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/02/08/essential-report-myschool-and-climate-change/#more-7098
Truth Hurting only feels free to vilify others under the veil of anonymity. He won’t admit to who he is.
Turnbull has the guts to proclaim his views in real life under his own name. Much braver than Truth Hurting.
Talk about mixed messages.
But…
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/02/07/business-us-wall-street-week-ahead_7336728.html
I think I will buy something if the ALL Ords gets below 4,000
You Labor Hacks are hilarious. You’d never vote for the Coalition, yet you back Turnbull.
Heres a hint: No one cares about Turnbull anymore, especially Liberal voters. Turnbull is toast.
Gary Bruce
No, should I?
Well, at least there seems to be an attempt to get it passed this time. And don’t forget it’s mor importantly an essential one for Austrlaia as part of the global initiative. Did you read Garnaut’s 26 Jan speech?
Ok, JV, here is your chance. You need to grab the attention of those “not really tuned in or interested in CC”. Going into detail will bore the crap out of them so you need to be catchy and get the message over. Go to it old son.
Is the name of the asylum seeker boat you arrived on Labor Hack? Which detention centre were you taken to when you got here?
Psephos read:
Mud Sticks: On the Alleged Falsification of Mendel’s Data
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1840063/
Diogenes
Fortunately for the government they can pull themselves out of the quagmire with the new Garnaut plan with the assistance of the Greens, Mr X and a Lib senator. What a gift, if they pull it off.
Sorry mate, I am a 4th generation born and bred Aussie and proud.
Gary B
Where’s Turnbull’s speech again?
Err, no. I’ve watched Garnaut and taken some interest in the whole bizzo but you wouldn’t call me a devotee. On the other hand I’m not a sceptic or denier either. I do think we will probably be in trouble in the long run. I don’t trust the human race to get it right frankly.
With all this talk of saving the world by cutting Australia’s 1% of world greenhouse gas emissions by a measily 5% by 2020 they are certainly pulling something.
A female colleague today said she had quite warmed to Abbott now. I told her I thought he was sinister and creepy, she said she quite liked him.
However, she loved Howard and I doubt she would ever vote Labor.
Yeah I agree, the Liberals want to piss $3.8 billion up a wall on a policy that won’t do anything.
I agree. A very good speech. Now what parts would you take out of it to hold the attention of those uninterested, uninformed and happy to be that way? How do you get that very good speech into a sound bite or a few sound bites?
So why is Abbott blowing $10 billion bucks on it?
Because he has adopted Truthy’s new ideology of Neo-Wankerism.
Does anyone really believe TTH voted Labor last election?
Australia’s emissions proportion is actually 1.4%, I thought, which is three times the average for all nations.Another impetus for leadership is that Australia is much more vulnerable than the rest of the developed world. Take a plane from Sydney to the Alice if you need convincing, and then keep going to Perth
There’s a good line Gary B – Put it in the draft speakers’ notes, and we’ll start assembling something for govt Ministers.
I doubt he has the intellectual capacity to make a valid vote for any candidate.
The speech writers, and the writers of good political lines retained by governments can do it when they want to, in times of war “weapons of mass destruction”, “axis of evil”; in times of medical crisis such as HIV – “Who has your partner slept with before”.
THey have the measns, they just haven’t deployed them yet. Why?
Either way Australia cutting emissions is going to do jack shit, other that fill the hearts of all the tree-huggers, lefties and latte sippers out there with a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Someone ring Kev and tell him to stop sending millions of tons of brown coal to China.
If it’s that easy you shouldn’t have any difficulty JV. I’m really not trying to be clever here. I just think the degree of difficulty of the government’s job in explaining the ETS is lost on you. You seem to think that all they have to do is hand out Turnbull’s speech or a summary and everyone will read it or listen to the government while they “read” it. I really don’t think it works that way it.
Diogenes #313, Thanks for your response.
Actually its Clive’s super dooper black thermal coal.
* Well, I’m happy after all these years to apologise to Mendel.
* Australia doesn’t export brown coal to China
So you think to explain a document that is how big(?) just takes a few snazzy lines, slogans? Really? Is that what you think is needed to explain the detail which will soothe their nerves, if they have any and give them a real good understanding of it?
TP wrote :
All Ords is currently 4538. 200 day MA is 4401. IF it continues to fall, it will *probably* bounce off the 200 day MA at least to start with.
I will be looking at the percentage of stocks above their 10, 50 and 200 day MA’s and the movement of these percentages. And of course the movement in the number and percentage of stocks making new yearly highs.
All of these measure are cactus atm and have been going south since about the 12 January. These market breadth measures are *reasonably* good but not a crystal ball of course.
LOL! The Churches won’t support a charter of rights because it will make it harder for them to discriminate!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/churches-should-back-charter-of-rights/story-fn3dxiwe-1225828028161
I didnt realase Q&A has been moved to Monday night at 9:30pm. Tonight is the PM home alone.
Wow Monday will super Monday at My ABC then from 7pm-11:30pm.
With The Colbert Report on ABC2 at 7:30, if The 7:30 Report has boring stories.
And a urban legend gets another kick along. I was told the same when doing engineering 30 years ago. With my knowledge of statistics and genetics a little stronger I went back and look at the data myself as part of my honours project, I call bullshit, and it would seem so do many others.
Yep, it will be a bit of a worry if it gets below 4,000 again, but if things really go south then opportunities abound and we have seen how easy things go south. Lots of people wanting to take their profits after a good rise if things look to scary – a they scare easy now days. There are enough red flags out there, and those European PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece & Spain) … you would think the market would mark time waiting to see how that gets resolved and not forge ahead.
4,200 would be interesting too, if the Red flags are dealt with…
Not that I know anything at all about this stuff.
Lucky that Labor has Turnbull to explain their policy. After his speech I asked my climate doubting wife if she now understood. She said yes.
What! King Wally Otto in the sound proof booth is now doing voice overs for the ABC!
A comment from LP post about the Abbott “housewives” ironing gaffe:
LOL.
It’s not an urban legend, it was found to be so by a reputable scientist. If has now been found to be otherwise by other scientists, well and good. My point was that errors made by scientists, or even falsifications, do not necessarily prove the arguments made by those scientists to be false.
Dingbat
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 7:28 pm | Permalink
“Ron To say we would have an ETS now but for the Greens is rubbish”
you ar a lyar
Tunbull publicly AND in th HoR committed Libs to suport it in Senate ,
and your cowardly Greens Party staled vote for a week
chek hansard , you fool
Who can forget a state leader of the opposition ironing, the borg did not do too well.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6529391,00.jpg
maybe tone in his budgies vacuuming next?
Well, well, well, the PIIGS will not fly, just throw a BRICI as in the BRICKIE, then you shall have Brazil, Russia, India, China and Indonesia that will smash the old World Order.
I have the solution of Joyce. Never again will he sound more incoherent than Palin.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan-sirucek/did-palin-use-crib-notes_b_452458.html
Go Swannie! Describing the Hock as a “giant Tinkerbell”
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/swan-mocks-hockey-as-giant-tinkerbell-20100208-nmp3.html
Psephos at #358
If you want a good example of that sort of thing, try this one (which won a Nobel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-drop_experiment#Fraud_allegations
Ronald,
You can’t get around the ban on calling people a liar simply by spelling the word incorrectly.
TP
It wouldn’t work for Barnaby. He’d have to get someone to write the answers on his palm for him.
I heard the 2IC of The Punch talking about Barnaby (she sounded very good actually). She said Rudd should remind the Australian voters EVERY DAY that if the Libs are elected that Barnaby will be Finance Minister. What a frightening thought.
AL
Is your GAS problem giving you cranky pants???
The snazzy lines must be a part of it for those who take little interest in politics, and will never listen to a long speech. The information must be packaged, diced, re-assembled, be the subject of relentless information at all levels of the community.
Keynote speeches, packeged government information within the guidelines, Ministerial appearances everywhere, mailed packages 9with or without fridge magnets) – you name it, it has to be done as in, say, making a complex case for war to win public support.
The point is there is no choice. It won’t do for the governemnt to continue to sit back and be a small target on climat echange. It isn’t working and Abbott and the sceptics are getting some traction. Time for leadership and some heavy hitting, however difficult that may be for this government.
Show Off
so you channelling moderator now
who says your spell way is rite , anyway calledd you your spell way prev anyway , was ok , as it applied corect to you , like dingybat
And debate is still raging about whether Cyril Burt faked his research, nearly 40 years after his death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Burt
btw: BRICI has almost 50% of the World Population
Betty,
Has your hypocrisy problem caused your arse to explode?
Yes.
Even better question Ronald, who says your way of spelling is right? Certainly not me.
Greens not only stopped us having an ETS we’d hav now
They’ve taken every opoertunity espec Easter Island Milne to undermine ETS to public
Then from extreme right , Abbott has also undermined ETS to public , so ETS suport is dropping
Nats used to be th politcal harlots of principal , baton now gone to Milne
you Greens sow what you grow , ego aglow , and CC below , principal protecting your voting base
Shows On,
The only person chastised by the moderator in recent days is your good self.
Maybe you should worry about your own standards instead of reflecting on others.
Shows
Does me saying GAS upset you??
ps GAS
Showy, is the Snowy River getting too rough for you?
Oh dear me. It is simply a fact that William doesn’t like us calling each other liars, whether or not the word is correctly spelt. Deal with it.
Betty,
Does me pointing out you are a hypocrite upset you?
PS: Hypocrite.
Rudd has just admitted he is not doing enough on the propaganda war.
The Finnigans
How timely
Rudd clearly reads PB religiously.
Shows On,
You really are the most angry penguin in the parade!
That can’t be right. Ron and his acolytes are sure it’s the Greens’ fault.
And you’re the most boring.
Nice to know the ABC has turned into a platform for free ALP Party Politicals.
If they dont have the same get up for Tony Abbott then the ABC are a bloody disgrace!
Shows On,
You’re as sharp as a bowling ball!
GG, maybe Showy is the real hobo on Diog’s Boulevard of Broken Dream
G. G.,
Stop boring me.
Its Time,
The Greens pretend they are some sort of sentient beings uninfluenced by tawdry propaganda. Seems they are self delusional on that as well.
GG
Betty the wonder inflatable doll owned by shows has suffered from a GAS leak
Shows is seeking vengeance and someone, anyone will pay,
I try and help shows from time to time but his projection of Betty onto my goodself is disconcerting.
One does what one can with these sad cases beyond redemption
Last year they gave the same platform to Malcolm Turnbull having given Rudd a solo effort. I’m sure they’ll do the same for Abbott.
I wonder if some of you might feel a little guilty wasting BillBowe’s bandwidth on such childish behaviour?
Glen, it’s good to know it is still My ABC!!!!!!
Gus,
It’s sad when a seemingly happy family breaks up.
The Finnigans
Anything said by Rudd about the delicate negotiations? If not, I guess they’re still delicate.
It’s time, no not me. i paid for it. I subs to Crikey $100 per year. What about you then, my sweet petal?
Betty,
I’m doing what I can with brain dead hypocrites who are stuck 30 years in the past. See, I don’t actually think you are beyond redemption, you are just ill-informed with an inability to think critically.
All I pointed out was that we aren’t meant to call each other liars, which is an accurate reflection of the rules of this forum.
Oh, a costly Workchoices advertising campaign.
I have to agree with Adam’s earlier post that the numbers don’t add up for a Gov/Green negotiated CPRS to get through the Senate.
I’m surprised Truthy hasn’t given Rudd a pat on the back for this yet.
It sounds like we might have a dearth of cooks and hairdressers in a few years. Fortunately, I am practically bald so I say “Go for it” Ruddster.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/dramatic-overhaul-cancels-20000-visas/story-e6frf7jo-1225827616315
I think you should all be banned from talking to each other at all.
Did you predict the Liberal partyroom would support and then unsupport the CPRS in teh space of 1 week?
Who knows what will happen on this issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more parliamentary twists and turns before the election.
Shows On,
And all that has been pointed out to you is that your pathetic posts in recent days disqualify you from the privilege of criticising others for their allegedly poor contributions.
No, a costly and essential advertising campaign on a threat to all human life.
And the guidelines don’t allow spending real money on the spruiking of legislation until it is passed by Parliament, not as a propaganda exercise before or during parliamentary consideration. However the government is free to hit the airwaves and other media to push their position, which they have obviously not been doing.
G.G.,
Be less boring.
We cockroaches are biding our time and time is on our side
Putting up the bills and hope that something happens in the Senate to let it through doesn’t sound like a sound strategy irrespective of the coalitions internal tensions.
It’s Time
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 9:48 pm | Permalink
‘Rudd has just admitted he is not doing enough on the propaganda war.’
“That can’t be right. Ron and his acolytes are sure it’s the Greens’ fault.”
snap , it is
you blocked ETS and since hav sniped it
then hav gall to get a 5% to 2020 polisy , and be sanctomonious
dont try & squirm out of your hypocracy now Its Time , you past time
Glen said
I expect Abbott will get the same opportunity and I really really hope he does. Within 5 minutes he’ll have both feet in his mouth.
Some people would view it that way. Some wouldn’t. I wonder if it would “work” like the Workchoices campaign did.
The cockroaches will be flogged for the fifth year running come State of Origin.
My guess is that Labor will only accept their legislation being passed or they will accept it being voted down. The current legislation is in the form they will go to a DD with and will implement if they win.
The Greens can agree to pass the legislation with a deal for further improvements in the new Parliament. However, they will have to agree to support the current legislation if they want to have any of their agenda implemented.
It’s Time
Do you mean before or after the negotiations? Do you know what Mr X would do if the government can reach agreement with the Greens on the Garnaut line, and also what Turnbull’s friends might do in the Senate?
The Garnaut line won’t need any change to the current bill it seems. Would Mr X vote against the bill after agreement between the government and Greens when there is a chance of a Lib or two crossing or abstaining or going to the members’ bar? That would be a big call by him.
I’m not so sure things are set in concrete after events over the past week.
It nearly worked the second time they were put to the parliament.
Ron, I will tell you once again so that you have no excuse except stupidity or a careless disregard for the truth: I am not a Green. Try addressing an issue rather than attacking anyone who holds a different view to yourself.
Herr Doktor, we shall just talk to you then, what a stimulating experience it will be. I cant hardly contain my excitement.
ShowsOn
It’s not always helpful to rake over the past, but if there had been more commitment in the government to getting the bill passed in November, rather than just wedging the Libs, the bill could very possibly have been passed after negotiations then, the same as it can be this month, with exactly the same deal being considered now. Now it’s harder, because the political ground has shifted under the government’s feet.
If the Government had gone for a simpler and more transparent carbon tax option they would not have so much problem explaining it to the punters in convenient media friendly sound bites.
Gary asked earlier about both Labor and the Libs losing votes and wondering where from. If you look at Possums demographics, their vote amongst 18-35yo’s has dropped by 4% each and the Greens have increased their vote amongst 18-35 yo’s from 9% to 17%.
That has to be a good sign for the future of the Greens.
JV
Wong doesn’t appear to be talking to X or any prospective Liberal defector. So are they just flying on a wing and a prayer? I haven’t heard anyone offer a likely scenario for the CPRS getting through the Senate this time.
Amazing
Its Time snipes Labor , suports Greens , but says he is not a Green
Diog , ditto
j/v , ditto
There is a wholee Party of Greens , who say oh we ar not Greens oh deary me s not greens , oh closet Greens maybe , oh no but not reely closet Greens but Greens
I realize its embarassing for you to admit you a Green what with there lunatic , be uneconamic polisys , but Its time , you a Green man only person you tryin to fool is Its time
Well. that Tony Jones is a goose. The IINET case wasnt involved the users downloading “off” IINET’s website.
Ron, you appear to be the fool and the liar. Now, STFU.
It’s not like a carbon tax could be subject to an even bigger scare campaign is it?
j/v
“It’s not always helpful to rake over the past, but if there had been more commitment in the government to getting the bill passed in November”
BS j/v
this is YOUR narative to try to camoflage it was th GREENS who stopped ETS being passed , turnbull had committed Libs to it
again you try to hide Greens disgrace of blocking a vote ETS by a weeks yap yap , with blatent untruths
now its time
show creditials
is j/v BS
My sweet petal, you are wasting the bandwidth i paid for.
I don’t believe so, because this is not dishonest sleight of hand to do over workers’ rights.
The CC issue is a marketing winner given the extensive factual basis. It is a scientific and economic edifice. An easier sell than ‘university tests prove toothpaste X gives brighter teeth” I would have thought, as any marketing executive could tell us:
“97% of the world’s climate scientists say we’re fecked for x,y,z reasons” will eventually cut through with the right direct and unadorned presentation.
Shows On – No, it would be subject to exactly the same scare campaign and be compared to exactly the same farcical nonsense bandied about by the coalition.
Ronster
It’s just that a lot of us chardonnay-swilling, latte-sipping, elitist, independent thinking, inner-city, smug, self-satisfied intelligentsia happen to be sympathetic to the Greens on climate change.
FINNS
when faced with fact , its time went to water , and past due time date
Diogenes
that was nunased even for you
see if you look at my 3427 and say j/v is not talkin BS as i said
Rudd said: The pollutors paid. Haaaah, he should pay me for that line. i have been saying that for the last 2 days.
he paid me , i rang him Sunday
If that were the case, you would all learn a number of things:
* good manners
* sound politics (slightly to the centre of left)
* not to end a sentence with a preposition
* the Kings and Queens of England back to Eggbeater the Unready
* the words of the Horst Wessel Song
* how to live without TV, and popular culture in general
* the German pluperfect in all its glory
* it’s a grand old flag, it’s a high-flying flag
* the electoral system of Ecuador
and much else besides.
Amigo, the cheque is in the mail.
Using my hard-earned taxpayer money?
Herr Doktor, what about learning how
???
Psephos, have you joined forces with bob1234?
Psephos
How is the Ukraine election going?
Its Time
Well, I hope not, anyway. The negotiations seem to me to have been going on all last week, and both parties are playing things a lot more delicately than we’ve seen before. Also, the things Wong and Brown and Milne have been saying are much softer in tone. That’s what gives me some hope. I’d find it hard to believe they’d go to all that trouble without sounding out X and the key Libs too. And if the bill doesn’t need amending for the Garnaut plan, it could be attractive to the latter.
Rudd has been good tonight on Q&A. Concise and to the point.
Psephos
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 10:30 pm | Permalink
“If that were the case, you would all learn a number of things:
* good manners
* sound politics (slightly to the centre of left)
* not to end a sentence with a preposition
* the Kings and Queens of England back to Eggbeater the Unready
* the words of the Horst Wessel Song
* how to live without TV, and popular culture in general
* the German pluperfect in all its glory
* it’s a grand old flag, it’s a high-flying flag
* the electoral system of Ecuador”
i pass all of thems , except that grand old (1964) flags
Psephos- when were the the English under the yolk of Eggbeater the Unready? Did he have anything to do with the Humpty Dumpty nursery rhyme?
Finns
Rudd was a GAS
Diog, the Ukrainians are struggling on their Boulevard of Broken Dreams. What have you done to them.
The former communist defeated the former communist.
Gus, what is Betty rubbish?
Finns
Rudd said last week that he was going to try and talk like a normal person.
Why did Alexander Downer’s son ask the PM a Dorothy dixer?
Diogenes – there was no update on his site a couple of hours ago, but news reports say that the opposition leader has claimed victory, although the prime minister has refused to concede defeat. About 4.4% voted for ‘none of them’ (or words like it) which appears on the ballot paper there.
Oh dear, Barnyard is on Q&A next week.
Tanner v Barnaby Rubble on Q&A next week. Should be a hoot.
That was bloody good. Am looking forward to TA getting the same gig.
Fargo
CNN is saying it looks like the pro-Russian dude beat the pro-Western incumbent. I’m pretty sure Ukraine is the biggest of the splintered ex Soviet states so it’s a big win for the Russkies.
Tanner could single handedly win a 2nd term for the government in the space of 1 hour.
Which is more than can be said for most of his interrogators.
I think the problem in “selling” the ETS is the fact that the science isn’t easy to understand. Just how do you prove that CC is real using the science? No good saying it’s real and not proving it. If someone said “Here’s the proof ……… and there is no doubt about it” then people would really take notice. The deniers and sceptics would not be able to refute it. Game over, but that isn’t the case. It’s easy to doubt because the science is so bloody hard firstly to understand and secondly impossible to package in those little sound bites.
Sloppy is doomed. He actually sat along side Turnbull while Turnbull was bucketing on Abbott.
You can almost sense that the Govt’s slogan for the next election will be” Who do you trust to run the Australian Economy – Abbott & Barnyard?”
Well now she has run out of GAS, I suppose she is just rubbish.
The mere mention of Barnaby Joyce by TJ at the end got some applause from the audience… I think that says it all really
Gary Bruce
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 10:43 pm | Permalink
“I think the problem in “selling” the ETS is the fact that the science isn’t easy to understand.”
true Garry
i’d actualy take a diferent politcal approach both to that & to Abbott
What the hell is Leigh wearing. Did she got it from the Vinnie or the Great Mistake?
Aha
The wambie werchant banker faction
it all makes sense now
But it says something about the AGE we are in. Did anyone take seriously people who said the hole in the ozone layer wasn’t a problem? NO. People TRUSTED the scientists and just concentrated on a way to fix the problem, hence the Montreal protocol.
But now we are in 2010 and every idiot thinks they know better than scientists who have spent 25 years studying the problem.
Ukraine: sadly the boring corrupt Putinist KGB agent defeated the madwoman with the pretzel hair. She’s crazy but she would have been fun. Old dioxin-face got knocked out in the first round.
And she’s really hot.
“She’s crazy but she would have been fun”
you got me intersted
Is this what you mean
A bit skewiff in the Ukraine. The Ukrainians should forget the ‘Orange Revolution’ and all this alleged election fraud stuff and just become orange people in the great tradition of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh – remember him? I remember working with one or two adherents in the 1980s. The Bhagwan was embroiled in some nefarious goings on in the US and acquired many Rolls Royces before being deported. Still his teachings live on:
His syncretic teachings emphasise the importance of meditation, awareness, love, celebration, creativity and humour – qualities that he viewed as being suppressed by adherence to static belief systems, religious tradition and socialisation.
Not a bad philosophy in there either.
Betty,
He means stop being a hypocrite.
Just saw Abbott’s little performance in Parliament on Lateline. OH said “Abbott’s really cutting through. Everyone now realises he’s a moron”.
Gary Bruce
OK, if the government can’t do it, we should get Al Gore back and all do his training course and stump the country with a PowerPoint presentation and a red laser pointer. Let’s get the REAL green army going.
Gary
We got j/v saying we need a marketing plan for CC and
Show Off saying “it says something about the AGE we are in.”
so reckon answer is Gary , you ignore this above stuff , you dont sell CC , it is sold
You sell you gonna tax big polutters , and Abbott is not , he is taxing people
You sell you ar going to compensate punters for costs passed on , Abbott is not
think gary , in electons , kiss principal works , if underpined by credability of your point
Shows
My apols for revealing betty the inflatable wonder doll and her role in you getting GAS.
You must learn to move along, perhaps a berocca or two will help you with your GAS
Betty,
I don’t apologise for revealing to everyone that you are a hypocrite.
No, because “round” is a noun.
Strictly speaking, one should not say: “Are you the person I just had sex with?” One should write: “Are you the person with whom I just had sex?” This rule is, shall we say, not widely understood in the modern world.
fred, Its great your wife now understands the ETS. Can she now explain clearly how it works?
Certainly not.
I finally got the Alexander Downer’s son joke via half hour delay.
Sir Winston Churchill saved every schoolkid, saying:
“Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.”
That looked so bad. Do we really want a PM that will carry on like that?
Well, i never had SEX with that woman:
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss334/clichecityD/dolphingirl.jpg
She tried.
Unless one had GAS or a inflatable wonder doll??
Gawd you miss Betty, dont ya Shows
I am thinking of setting up teh “buy shows a new inflatable wonder doll” fund
It should be a GAS
Let’s guess, you’ve been manipulating yourself with sardines again?
No, I don’t miss your gigantic hypocrisy.
Hmmm – there are other versions of what Churchill said about prepositions ending sentences, including:
“This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.”
I just logged in like 10 seconds ago and I find Shows On and St Goulding at it. Good, it was getting freaky on PB with those two all lovey dovey. Although Psephos does not seem to remember who he had just had sex with.
ron
They’re not my Green’s party. The fact remains that the ALP gave no respect or considerations for the Greens so the Greens gave none back. You don’t expect the Greens to merely rubber stamp ALP policy do you? ALP need to accept responsibility and you need to stop blaming other people.
*gives up in despair*
Ich werde schlafen gehen
Ich gehe schlafen
Ich ging schlafen
Ich bin schlafen gegangen
Ich war schlafen gegangen
Amigo Finns, you can’t help it that you drive the women crazy
Their ABC Top Story with Abbott photo
it’s only5hrs old, i suppose it’s good till tomorrow lunchtime at least
Centre/Darth Insidious
Shows projects his inflatable wonder doll betty (tho I now suspect it’s benny) onto me.I wasnt the cause of her/him deflating due to lack of GAS.
I suspect Dio’s hiddem hand in all of this
Senator Boswell’s attempt to match the likes of Heffernan and Tuckey, and it seems he has:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1009794/watch-it-china-wong-committee-told
“Colourful” – is that the correct adjective? I don’t think so
Betty,
Your hypocrisy is showing again, you may want to tuck it in.
I’ll add anothr non greens ,
Ron
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 10:17 pm | Permalink
‘Amazing
Its Time snipes Labor , suports Greens , but says he is not a Green
Diog , ditto
j/v , ditto
Dingbat , ditto
There is a wholee Party of Greens , who say oh we ar not Greens oh deary me s not greens , oh closet Greens maybe , oh no but not reely closet Greens but Greens’
Fact is you refuse to read Hansard
ETS was to be passed by Turnbull & Labor , FACT
Greens used a whole week of yap yap to stall a vote , that wuld hav passed ETS
So Greens DID stop th ETS from being passed
your claim this is nonsense as yu said is untrue , PER HANSARD , read it
to dingbat
Saw Abbotts performance in parliament today on the abc news. Was he channeling Peter Garrett from the Midnight Oil days??
ron
did it ever occur to you that those criticising Labor that you accuse of being Greens could be either
1) Lefties – they still exist ron, some of them even vote for the ALP or
2) ALP people prepared to be critical of their party in order to improve it
3) People with an opinion and a mind of their own
Vera – notice the photo of Abbott on that ABC story is the one that Warren Brown (on Insiders) thought was fantastic. Bet they use it constantly from now on and still use the nost so good photo of Kev that they love.
Imacca – don’t be rude to Garrett – Abbott gone barmy.
Can ShowsOn and Gusface please cut it out.
Adam #492
“Ich war schlafen gegangen”?????
This sounds like the name of german baby food to me.
Is it a politically insightful comment? Some devestating repartee with deep insight?
Perhaps I should just switch off and go to sleep
This sort of report is exactly the reason the government should “Go With Garnaut” and take the high ground by reaching agreement with the Greens, who must at the same time meet the government at Garnaut and consummate the relationship. (I’m sure they’ll remember who it is with
)
Then the current bill can be put up in the light of the agreement, and the government can wave Garnaut’s revised strategy in the Libs’ faces, and there’ll be no more articles showing the Libs and the Govt as on the same hollow level at 5%:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/emissions-could-rise-under-ets/story-e6frf7jx-1225828024758
Dingbat
quote for an alleged non green
“The fact remains that the ALP gave no respect or considerations for the Greens so the Greens gave none back. You don’t expect the Greens to merely rubber stamp ALP policy do you?”
sounds like a REEL Labor person doesn’t it ????
play a nother tune , you’re fooling only you
ps/ Labor did NOT need ANY Greens votes to pass th ETS !!
It just needed Greens to shut up & allow a vote by Libs/ labor ,
instead of stalling whole Senate fora week WITH Minchin & Jpoyce as reel respectible partners Greens get into bed these days with when it suits
BH
Yeah, I noticed that, got his glasses halfway down his nose leering over the top at Kev trying to look all macho and powerfull
They had a similar one of Turnbull that was constantly on their main newstory page when he was leader.
It didn’t do him much good did it?
Bilbo
My apols for being drawn into dross.
ron
I didn’t say i was a Labor person either. My arse ain’t for sale. My beliefs on the environment require more than ALP/Libs are prepared to offer. Not so hard to comprehend is it?
Gusface
Just so long as you’re not drawn in a dress
Vera
Dont you start
Espescially not a pink Hockey fairy dress
Gusface, after dolphins lemurs are my favourite critter
Maybe he was angling for the footy show demographic?
vera
Reminds me of the great Spike Milligan’s line in the Goons. A detective investigating a murder walks into the house:
“The curtains were drawn, but the rest of the room was real.”
So if either of the majors came up with a CC policy you like you wouldn’t go with them because ” My arse ain’t for sale”? Or is it really for sale to the highest bidder (ie the best CC policy)?
He’d be right at home sitting beside Fatty Vaughten come to think of it
JV
Vera
Some bozo on one of the squawlback radio stations was sating how joe was a real knockabout type.
I reckon the fibs stategy will be built around the meme of the “knockabout type”
For some reason the footy show demographic seems to be what they(the libs) are pitching at.
Dingbat
Changed your story now , you superiority complex politcaly over everyone now
Comin here and pretending to be above politcs , hiding behind a cloke of being so caled respectfuly independent to then snip Labor does not cut mustard here sunshine
you talk Green PER th Quote I made of YOU in #505 , your words REQUOTED Green man
“The fact remains that the ALP gave no respect or considerations for the Greens so the Greens gave none back. You don’t expect the Greens to merely rubber stamp ALP policy do you?”
but if you fool yourself enuf in front of your mirror , fine
Gus
you may like to look at 3482 , its too good to miss
maybe #482 may help
JV
Spikes famous quote about Woy Woy
“If Woy means body of water,what does the other Woy mean”
I saw Q7 and Q8 ages ago and still think spike was the best improviser of his time, and maybe of all time.
Gusface
Yep, they have been pushing Abbott and Barnyard as real dinki di ockers who speak their minds, a pair of no bullshite blokes and it’s OK for them to be sexist because that’s how real Aussie men oughta act anyway.
Next we’ll see Julie Bishop in a blue singlet and king gees swigging a can of Fosters
GB
No, it means i don’t spruik ALP or Greens policy regardless of what it is. It means i am capable of supporting or criticising policy regardless of whose policy it is, and capable of voting for a party whilst criticising them at the same time. Something a couple of people here obviously have trouble with. Really not hard to digest is it.
Dingbat
You may find that disengagement from Wordle Man can be a blessed release sometimes
Here’s a Wordle of r/Ron’s last post – all of it:
http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1639986/r-Ron%27s_last_post
dingbat
I’m surprised that you are pointing that out. I’ve made the same point on a few thousand occasions to ron over about three years to no avail.
Ron doesn’t accept any of those categories as a valid position to take
1) Lefties- must be Labor traitors as anyone Left of Ron can’t be real Labor
2) ALP people who criticise the ALP- let’s not even go there
3) Independent thinkers- Ron really hates those above all.
I’ve often dreamed of Gus in a dress, but on a much less important and much less realistic plane of existence, i’m pretty sure in the bit of pm i caught on the way home i heard opposition members demanding that a govt answer a hypothetical with a specific answer and not just averages.
Surely the answer to this is simple and it is the answer to the Govt’s problems, and it is:
“If the hypothetical family in question, with whom the opposition has been playing fantasty games does not change their behaviour at all (oh i guess it was an economic model so merely changes their behaviour in line with the assumptions of an average family as posited by the particular model) then they will pay as the opposition worked out from the information they were spoon fed by the government x dollars per annum out of pocket.
However what the opposition has failed to grasp, having left the rational world behind and joined [insert journalist opinion piece hack of choice] and the rabid deniers more generally; that the whole purpose of the CPRS is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and help save humanity and the planet. Therefore, unsurprisingly to anyone who finished grade six the scheme penalises those who do least to save the planet and rewards those who do most.
It is a rare occasion where both both sides of serious politics in the country agreed (prior to the deniers hijacking the opposition and having them join with the greens in opposing the plan), that the power of the market could be used to do good, rather than the rubbish it usually does if left unchecked.
So bottom line if this hypothetical family still wants to use the tumble dryer instead of the clothes line well golly gee they can. And they will pay for it. If they want reverse cycle air-conditioning to make it super warm in winter and frigid in summer well golly gee they can. But the little buggers will pay through the nose and perhaps a few other places for it.
However if they can find ways to just switch off the airconditioning and they can throw away the tumble dryer then golly gee they will find that they are no worse off and probably better off.
What can’t happen is this hypothetical family can’t take a subsidy from the government for solar panels most can’t afford and then proceed to use air conditioners and tumble dryers willy nilly; as indeed they could under the oppositions cynical posturing which should not be confused, even for a moment with public policy or anything resembling a serious response to climate change.
Seaking of Squaakback – Media Watch really got stuck into Lord Mockton.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2813459.htm
vera, have u been avoiding me? Must be that pix of that silly girl doing the piggy back
Won’t be long before the ‘elitist’ mantra gets trotted out by the Libs. Who wants intelligent people running the country? They should be just like the bloke down the pub! God help us all.
Gusface,
Spike was a genius beyond compare, haunted by bouts of the blue devils
I thought his most famous quote about Woy Woy was that is was ‘ the world’s only above ground cemetary’.
The only time I went to Woy Woy was to see Rose Tattoo play at the country club there in 2001, 31 people turned up.
Gusface
Glad you appreciate him. I saw him in a one man show at the UNSW a long time ago.
A couple of others about Woy Woy – which I can see from my window across the body of water as we speak:
“Woy Woy, Australia’s first above ground cemetery.”
(his mother lived there, and I think his brother may be still living there)
and
“Woy, a town twinned with Woy”
oh dear, gus, u in dress? U must be the broken dream in my boulevard
Mr Squiggle
You got it.
Gusface
Did you hear about the man whho stole a calendar?
Ron
“The fact remains that the ALP gave no respect or considerations for the Greens so the Greens gave none back. You don’t expect the Greens to merely rubber stamp ALP policy do you?”
Exactly which part of that post do you disagree with. The fact that you cannot comprehend that someone could be critical of the ALP without being a Green or Liberal says a lot about your state of mind.
Rudd rolled the dice and lost. You’d best spend your time worrying about how to turn CC back into a positive for the ALP.
Finns
Me avoid you/ Never! I saw the pix and said that you can’t help being irresistible
CONTEXT politcaly is everyting :
we had ETS ALREADY in th Senate
with Labor 32 votes , needing only 7 votes to pass it
Turnbull public & in HoR as leader saying with hockey WE th liberal WILL pass th ETS l
Libs hav Senate 37 votes
Labor needs only 7 of those , prob wuld hav got 20 Libs votes anyway
so ETS was to pass
th RELEVENCE OF Dingbats comments about “respect for th Greens Party” as to affecting th success of this ETS vote is zero , it was to pass anyway so Greens votes were NOT needed !
so when he says in this context
“The fact remains that the ALP gave no respect or considerations for the Greens so the Greens gave none back. You don’t expect the Greens to merely rubber stamp ALP policy do you?”
its clearly an unhappy Green person whose Green Party was irelevent at THAT time so therefore th “respect he talks about for th Greens Party” is a clearly red herring
a Greens guy whose Greens Party has been shown to hav stopped ETS becoming law is what hurts
Ron
Get real. Minchin was never going to let the ETS pass without a fight. It was just the timing of the fight, and who won that mattered.
If there was more voter support for an ETS, Turnbull would have won. The door was left open and now the horsie has bolted and is galloping all over the paddock. Rudd needs to get that horsie back in the stables or shoot it, metaphorically.
JV
Werent they going to name the bridge the “spike milligan bridge”?
What you southern rabble don’t understand is that Barnaby Joyce is very popular in Queensland and will continue to be so.
Say what you will about him, crap on about him if you will, no one up here cares… he is popular and will continue to be so. You guys can stick to your silver spoon elitists like Turnbull, we’ll take Barnaby over him any day.
#540, in the past over time i’ve read a lot of rubbish here but without ever getting as grumpy as i’ve seen BB recently, but you are saying you’d rather have a finance minister that can barely read numbers over an almost competent one?
Whats the Scientists analysis on the impact of Kev’s reduction of 5% per cent of 1% greenhouse gas emissions by 2020?
Psephos
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
‘I heard Milne carrying on about how Abbott had joined Rudd by not making the polluters pay and welching on CC. It was truly appalling.’
“(diog)You’ve said much the same yourself many times.”
Yes Diogenes , adam nailed you
You just a Green , pretending to be rspectful independent , as a cove o snip Labor as you’ve done for 12 mths , ditto j/v fooll youself
As for minchin , you reely need to read Handard aND read Senate rules on Bills voting before making silly coments ,
and why ? simply again tby you too camoflage Greens stopping th ETS being passed by Libs/Labor , can you be more apologetic for Green s than that , hevens sake
So you’re another one out to change a person’s mind by criticising them for supporting a party. I must say I haven’t seen that approach work yet. Good luck. Far better just to argue your case though rather than putting people down for holding strong to a party.
Well Peter Garrett is enivornment minister, and though I like his music I wouldn’t trust him with a box of crayons.
Gusface
They did – that’s the cycleway bridge to Koolewong, but only after a lot of carry-on from some humourless locals who didn’t get his jokes about the Woys. Fortunately the sourpusses lost at the Council meeting, but would you believe it required the Mayor’s casting vote to get the naming through.
http://www.gosford.nsw.gov.au/news_events/media/media-releases-2008/march-2008/the-spike-milligan-bridge-plaque-unveiling/
Ron
I corrected Psephos very politely.
Yes ron context is everything, you misread the context that Turnbull would get rolled and the ALP would no longer have the numbers. And you seem to be saying that you only show respect for another party when you actually need their votes. Greens were irrelevant so and not worthy of respect so they said ditto for the ALP. If you’re going to play politics ron you can’t squeal when you lose.
The ALP played politics and lost, the Greens may have done the same, but they do have their own party base to look after. Who knows what round 2 will bring.
If climate change is real then Rudd’s ETS would do diddly-squat and we will need something a lot bigger than ALP/Libs are interested in anyway.
#545 great answer reminds me of someone who used to hang around places like these, but Passionate Pete can spell his name, walk and chew gum within a couple of hours of each other.
Oh and wait he is smart enough not to be conned by a few rabid denialists, which puts him in front of let me think from pictures of HoR today, and discounting Pink Joe who is walking on 8 sides of about 3 fences at once, all but 3 in the Lib / NP / Queensland rabble caucus?
JV
Cheers for that
I wasnt sure as i dont get down that way much anymore.
GB
I think dingbat is pointing out that is the reason why some people don’t change their minds.
As you have voted Lib and disagreed with Labor on MySchool, you are not one of them.
Dennis Atkins believes Rudd is getting rattled because of Tone? Anyone else picked up that vibe? I haven’t seen it.
GB
Not trying to change anyone’s mind. But i think criticising people for holding to a party line rather than stepping outside the spin and engaging is a legitimate point of view.
Latest from Belinda Neal:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/6777401/neal-hits-back-at-labor-branch-members/
Dio, I’ve been accused of that. It doesn’t make it right. Those people may genuinely believe in what they are saying. Whose to say otherwise?
GB
If I was Rudd I’d be rattled that I was in charge of a country so full of ignorant dimwits that they prefer Abbott planting a few trees to an ETS as an approach to AGW.
I like this little tool. R/Ron’s last post text given the Wordle treatment. It all becomes clear.
http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1640029/r-Ron%27s_last_post_%2B1
Diogenes
Amazing how you Greens spam absolute untruths about actual events
record IS in Handsard , of Greens staling for a week , despiteTurnbull’s Libs ready to vote for th ETS Bill that was already in th Senate
Mere fact of YOU trying to “spin” (and CONTARY to Hansard & public records) to protect Greens FROM being corectly accused of stopping th ETS becoming Law ,
gives you away as a Green , you dont realize how unbeilavable your claims of non Green is , in this lite
As Adam said , i requote ADAM again caue your reply was lame then to him:
Psephos
Posted Monday, February 8, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
‘I heard Milne carrying on about how Abbott had joined Rudd by not making the polluters pay and welching on CC. It was truly appalling.’
“(diog)You’ve said much the same yourself many times.”
OK well fonz, i mean truthy, i shouldn’t get all teary eyed and sentimental, i’ll leave it to the big boys to play out, but it was fun for me venting.
I still think the government should say, over and over again, in an insane mindless way, like the opposition that the CPRS isn’t simply a great big tax on everything, it is a simple scheme so that those who do most to reduce pollution benefit most and those who do least hurt most. Simple, sweet and effective.
Opps I forgot for the old lefty’s about have you appreciated Ray Davies (formerly of the Kinks) album ‘Working Class Cafe”. It is brilliant and was pre-GFC. Well worth the money.
I repeat. Those people may genuinely believe in what they are saying. Whose to say otherwise? Do you know them well enough to say that they are not genuine? Have you followed their voting history, their many contributions here and elsewhere to be able to confidently say they are only following the party line and really don’t believe what they are saying?
Gary
they’ve tried to reverse th debate to a red hering of Labor hacks
GB
They may indeed so genuinely believe, or they may not. The fact that ron obviously has issues with people who are critical of the ALP and obviously a bee in his bonnet about the Greens leads me to suspect otherwise. And pretty quick with words like liar and fool too. I’m not a liar ron, but possibly a fool, and almost certainly contrary and argumentative.
If you are referring to the Nielsen poll Dio I still don’t know how that question was framed. Do you? There is nothing wrong with planting trees. Hell I reckon that is OK. I know it’s not an answer to CC but it is worth doing.
Dingbat
I’ve proved what you said is false
Greens stopped th ETS becoming Law in #537
FACT is you can not rebut that evidense of both hansard and public comments,
and instead rely on your bias claims that Greens did not do so
spamming by you will not cover up that fact
Dingbat (unfortunate name that) – fair enough.
Gusface,
& JV,
maybe one of the best things my father did was set me up with his goonshow tapes before I had reached the age of 10 – Hardwired me into a view on life not otherwise obvious.
My mum used to work with someone who had parents next door to Spike’s mum in Woy woy. She said he used to walk in to their house with no warning, sit on their couch
and verbalise his depression about man’s destruction of nature. That was in the mid-80s,
GB
Neilsen AND ER both said it.
Ron
You have proved nothing. Crapping on about Hansard without quoting it and ignoring reality is proof of nothing except that you live in a fantasy world.
GB
perhaps ron can offer his own rebuttals if he so chooses, perhaps he’s not as precious as you. And of course i don’t him anymore than he knows i am a member of the greens or a liar or a fool.
Gary Bruce
It is fairly easy to pick ‘youse’ out you know.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But it is crystal clear when people have no clear opinion when asked as to what should happen in the future, but get vehemently defensive when there is criticism of the current party policy or actions.
I think some here ‘receive’ all their own political views from the party. They would be the ones you say who genuinely believe what they say is their own opinion. It is, in a way, I guess, but they never deviate from the party line and always work backwards. Some tend that way but can escape on occasions – a sliding scale from there.
Do you want er, names?
GB
Sorry about the precious line.
Nothing unfortunate about Dingbat.
Looks like Baillieu is trying to win the Indian vote.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/baillieu-in-race-attack-on-brumby-20100208-nna5.html
Diogenes
facts ar in Handsard Your Greens stalled a vote by Lab/libs for a week
you cannt deny that so you ar onto to crap now
your mob stopped ETS becoming law , and Labor pollys said same as me
deel with th shame Greens
No, not required. Who is to say that is wrong? You? Ok, so you don’t like it. Tough. Move on and argue your case I say. As Dio said I’m not one of them yet I bet you think I am. So who is right and who cares?
Mr Squiggle
He suffered greatly from depression and I don’t think ever got back to any equilibrium allowing a fraction of his ealier creative genius after the early 70s.
I have this theory that those who appreciate great humour are more ‘right-side of the brain’ (ie creative) and tend to be naturally left-wing. Would you agree?
The ABC may be obliged to give Abbott some free air time, but personally I hope they spare the long-suffering viewers. We have all seen far too much of him already. Rudd should be given a weekly time-slot…. imho
Gary B
It’s OK. It’s just a fact of life here. It can be fun. It’s only a matter of regret to me when a discusison is taken over by snarling defensive invective from party defenders merely because people are trying to debate issues on their objective merits rather than from party political perspectives.
But you and I have for discussed issues civilly and without any problems today, it seems to me, so your name is not on the list to be passed on to the Independent Thought police.
GB, my view…
Rudd is an unacknowldeged conviction politician. This is yet to be understood by the mainstream media
I’m totally outside of politics, but for what its worth, I have absolutley no sense that Rudd is rattled by ‘left ear’ Abbott. He has already seen off two Liberal leaders and is confident he will see off the third…….
Rudd’s recent vulnerability is, to my mind, evidence that he has been shaken to the core by the copenhagen flop and his open gaff on Australia’s Population size.
There is one main reason why the failure of Copenhagen has hit Rudd like a punch in the solar plexus….. ie Rudd is an unacknowldeged conviction politician
So far, Rudd had no electoral need to emote his convictions.
Dingbat
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 12:39 am | Permalink
“GB perhaps ron can offer his own rebuttals if he so chooses”
err , re- read my #537 careful , and not your not to point reply
It is a matter of public record , of Greens stalling for a week (plus Abbots crew) which prevented th Labor/Libs under turnbull passing th ETS
that is indesputable
Fact you & j/v and diogenes ar claiming that Greens did not stop th ETS , when evidense shows this is false , and yet all 3 of you claim to be non greens is hilarious
YOU should chek Labor’s Anthony Albanese’s coments after 4 days of Greens staling when Turnbulls leadership started THEN to look in doubt (rather than your reply made to me
this has been a typical spamm & spin job by Greens here to camoflage Greens blocking th ETS that would hav passed
Ron
Nor can you rebut the evidence that Rudd got it wrong. He got the politics wrong ron. I couldn’t give a flying saucepan if the Greens didn’t do what Rudd wanted them too. It’s not their responsibility. That’s the point i’m trying to make ron. The Govt. of the day is responsible, they chose to ignore the Greens the Greens chose to ignore them. You can’t have it both ways ron. And you may think that it’s the Greens fault, but the great unwashed masses don’t.
Why do you keep talking out you arse Truthy,thats right its the end that makes most sense.
Ron
the rebuttal comment referred to GBs claim that i was putting you down for toeing the party line. Which I was. And i may be wrong, so if i am then you can rebut me rather than a 3rd party was the point i was making.
Dingbat
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 1:05 am | Permalink
Ron
“Nor can you rebut the evidence that Rudd got it wrong. He got the politics wrong ron. ”
you mean Rudd did not expect th Greens to waste 5 days stalling an ETSTO STO AN ETS BILL that was going to pass ,
AND that would actualy start CC miigaton because th Greens sold out CC totally ,
AND that Greens wuld sleeze up to and SIDE with morons Minchin and Barnaby
yea he prob did not think Greens were such CC harlots i supose
Ahhhh…. Belinda Neal….
The prune faced, foul mouthed Labor candidate that keeps on giving.
Chalk that one up as a Liberal Party seat after the next election.
JV _ i do agree – I have seen a documentary on the last years of Spike’s life (I may be wrong on this point, but wasn’t there a documentary on this subject narrated by his daughter?)
To my mind, he was committed to his views, past the comprehension of many…. his WWII memoirs filled my teen years with uncontolled laughter and informed my approach to many issues. Death and humor seemed co-exist side by side in these books..I must dig them out again
Without direct knowledge of Milligan, i would guess him to have been Green/anarchic, but his views seemed to be tinged with a bitterness that he had discovered how the world actually worked, by comparison, I typecast contemporary green voters as aspirational airheads who have yet to witness the things Spike’s generation had put behind them before they reached 30 years of age
The Robertson pre-selection hots up. Nice headline
:
“It’s my turn now: Labor rival moves to put Neal in freezer ”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/its-my-turn-now-labor-rival-moves-to-put-neal-in-freezer-20100208-nnbp.html
dingbat , i’ve public disagreed with Rudd , so you got that wrong as well
Mr Squiggle
Yes, dig them out, they are terrific books:
“Hitler:My Part in His Downfall”; and “Rommel: Gunner Who?” for a start.
*Bed: Its Part In My Downlie*
Gusface & Mr Sq
Before I go, the answer to my earlier question:
“Did you hear about the man who stole a calendar?” is …
Yes, he got twelve months.
(Spike of course.)
Not me, D. I am guilty of drinking coffee though live a tranquil suburban life. I would be smug if I had anything to feel smug about. I am definitely abstemious and am a long-lapsed probationary candidate for the intelligentsia. Perhaps I am not qualified to be a Green sympathiser.
In any case, I am not taken by the Greens on anything much, including CC. As a person with a trivial carbon footprint, to me they just come across as sort of parasitic. Strong words, I know. But they get their support by shaving supporters from Labor. They are as curious a bunch as ever sat in the Parliament, I would say. They are quick to claim to have high purposes, and yet they have no better political morals than Wilson Tuckey. More strong words.
I would feel a lot better about them if they hammered the Liberals, along the lines of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.” But no, they make their political living by chipping away at Labor. It makes them my enemy’s casual ally, present at the battle in case there are bodies to rob. It is hard to respect the Greener-than-thous for just this reason.
The best of Belinda Neal:
You will give birth to a Demon Child:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_yHCUHC_t0
Bad Reputation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFI03pFKCzU&feature=related
TheTruthHurts
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 1:11 am | Permalink
“chalk that one up as a Liberal Party seat after the next election”
want to bet
a non Neal will hold seat , tough luck
To Belinda Neals question “Do you know who I am?”
I would answer… “Yes, a Prune Faced Bitch”
Ron, I’ve never had a reason to disagree with Rudd yet. I reckon he is great and the more I see of him, the more I admire him. More than that, I think I actually trust him. That is a big call.
They will need to roll her first mate.
HTT, on prune-faced typists, I imagine you yourself must be an Adonis, a Paris or a David. Whatever her misdemeanors, HTT, they are nothing compared to your bigotry, your sexism and your untroubled, deep-welling, freely dispensed, pig-nastiness.
Briefly
#591
I think your post sums up alot of my views re Greens ,
although you alot more agressive in your language than me
even cossie could be rite sometime , he said about Greens something like:
‘ greens hav a over superioriity complex about polisy issues espec CC , to th extent they regard everyone else as immoral ‘
‘
briefly
“they get their support by shaving supporters from Labor”
or have labor vacated that space?
“They are quick to claim to have high purposes”
they do as all parties do, they can claim this because the main parties so obviously can’t. But it won’t last forever.
“I would feel a lot better about them if they hammered the Liberals, along the lines of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.” But no, they make their political living by chipping away at Labor.”
Ditto for the ALP unfortunately. They hate the Greens, particularly the right, and it’s an outside chance that the Green voters will withdraw their preferences from the ALP in a decade or two if it continues. They won’t with a strongly conservative Liberal leadership, but some definately will with a moderate liberal leadership.
The greens, despite continued steady growth, are playing for their political lives, not just to be relevant, but to be an established and influential presence. If the ALP abandon the left side of politics then the Greens are entitled to fill it.
Well Ron, I think Costello had a point. I guess I think the stereotyping that goes on is objectionable….gets under my tanned and barnacled skin.
D, I can see why the G’s seek to differentiate themselves on the left. There is no room for them on the right or in the centre. To do this, they contrive to chip at Labor more or less continuously. The word really is “contrive”. In the same way as the Libs set out to create distinctions between themselves and the one true party of the common interest, so do the Greens. Labor have not “vacated” or “abandoned” anything. This is a falsehood. If you want to see a genuine right wing political force, have a look at the Liberals, and recoil in shock.
Dow Jones DOWN
Nasdaq DOWN
Footsee DOWN
The Obama Recession continues…
Briefly
“They (Greens) are quick to claim to have high purposes, and yet they have no better political morals than Wilson Tuckey. More strong words.
I would feel a lot better about them if they hammered the Liberals, along the lines of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.” But no, they make their political living by chipping away at Labor. It makes them my enemy’s casual ally, present at the battle in case there are bodies to rob. It is hard to respect the Greener-than-thous for just this reason.”
snap , 100% agree Briefly
Two issues i disagreed with Kevin Rudd , although I ubdrstood politcs of his positon to avoid Lathams 76 rich schoolds hit list
was re suport for 2009-2013 Schools com formula , although Julia’s 16.3 Educ Revoluton dilutes that alot because it is based on need and NOT based on School comm formula
And anothr i think of m/e re even handedness , like to see more pressure on Israel towithdraw from non israeli land they ilegaly occupy , and actualy occupy in defianse of UN resolutons incl no 242
16.3 Billions
Reading none of the above.
At risk of being called an apostate, I wish to say that Rudd is going to have to fight like hard, to fall avoid falling victim to the Great Big Stitch Up. Courtesy Abbott, but of Kev’s own making.
Flirting with clear and present danger.
The percipient among you may have noted my less than enthused, in fact so close to entirely absent comment. Not that I expect many to care.
I pondered over Kev’s push for the Climate legislation. A mysterious thing. Doubts surfaced.
Worried that maybe it was about him. World Stage and all that.
Not about the money in his case, maybe. Hard to divine.
But even worse.
My waffly thoughts re emerged.
Over the motivation of a very accomplished merchant banker.
Carbon Trading. Credits etc.
Money, money, money.
So shoot me down.
Not, I hasten to add, that Abbott’s plan/plot is any better, just that we (the taxpayer sorry) will be right there to bankroll any chosen electorate interest.
And it would seem so sensible.
To those who get the money.
Trains to nowhere.
Arbor Day, every day. Don’t worry about the water.
The markets are meandering tonight. Equities are off a bit, as is the USD. Conversely, gold and oil are slightly higher. My own assessment of things is that bit by bit consumption spending and output are picking up – especially in Asia – and despite the anxiety about sovereign defaults in Europe, the debt markets are still functioning normally. As troubling as they may be, the problems in the public finances of these states are very small compared with the avalanche of debt that collapsed in 2008.
There is no sense of renewed crisis (such as occurred in late 2008) and no sense of an impending cyclical downturn in demand such as was current in late 2007. For sure, the legacy of the great crisis lingers, but it is slowly receding, and as long as monetary and fiscal policies remain expansionary, growth in incomes, spending, investment and employment will ensue.
Any recession does harm to the fabric of an economy – to household savings and incomes, to businesses, to the capital markets and to public finances. It takes time for these things to recover. The global system was grossly imbalanced for several years and then suffered a very profound shock. The damage wreaked was much greater than usual and it stands to reason that the process of reconstructing business balance sheets, capital investment, employment, household incomes, consumption and savings will take a good deal of time. The markets have been unduly optimistic about the pace of this process and are now correcting, but certainly they are not about to enter a new bear market. The conditions for this do not exist – at least, not now.
Ron, I think Rudd has managed the education funding issue very well. The whole public perspective is shifting away from whether some elite schools get too much money or not, to the much wider issue of funding and improving the schools that most kids attend….the rancour has gone. The issue now is who needs the money, how much, what for, and how will it be administered. The “envy” factor has been left behind.
On Israel, I am with you. But I am also with Rudd. This issue is too hard for mere mortals.
He may be popular to get elected in Yokel town but please dont insult the inteligennce of Queenslanders.
Ron Boswell is well past his used by date and Barnabee seems to find out out how ofthen his shoe size fits in his mouth as he spurts out populist garbage. The old “any news is good news” may just be his trick.
In the last half senate election six senators where sent to Canberra from Queensland. 3 from the ALP, 2 Libs, 1 Nats (Boswell)
http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/Website/SenateSenatorsElected-13745-NAT.htm
There is no measure here as to see if Joyce is popular at all and the opinion polls for Queensland dont look that great for the Nats.
I dont know if popular can substansiated from sound bites. May be in your world Troothy.
Window dressing, fluff, the great pretenders !
When the vote is taken it will make for a great photo opportunity. A photo to be kept as a reminder for future generations. It will show how Labor abandoned the planet and joined the arch capitalist, one of Australia’s richest men, in implementing a do nothing policy. It will show how the fore-lock tugging Laborites, were brown nosing the capitalists, the property developers and the spivs and shonks of the business world.
Aussieguru01
Like his obsessively repeated lie “the Obama Recession”, it’s a world conceived by Lenin as repeated guilt by assertion, ironically encapsulated by the Soviet Union’s propaganda rag Pravda (Russian for truth), articulated and defined in Mein Kampf & strategised by Joe Goebells as The Big Lie – a constantly repeated lie so outrageous that gullible people accept it as true; adopted by USA’s GOP under Buchanan, Cheney and Co (especially WMD as an excuse to invade Iraq) and in Australia under Howard’s government, first obvious use by Peter Reith during the Waterfront Dispute, then as his “Children Overboard”.
By Their Fruits Ye shall know Them.
Finns@418:
I think I will slit my throat should that come to pass.
Deb O’Neill is on the front foot in the pre-selection campaign for Robertson.
She is of course aided and abetted by the big lie that Belinda Neal was ordered to attend “anger management” counselling – but in a defiant stuff you Kev gesture, failed to to do so and merely attended counselling.
There is only one person who can correct the big lie – and that is PM Rudd? But does he really want to? Is he happy to stand by and see the pre-selection decided on false information – rather than on it’s actual merits?
The SMH reports on happenings on the pre-selection campaign trail: It’s my turn now: Labor rival moves to put Neal in freezer
Ron@470:
Ron, I suspect like me you have been involved with that type of woman.
It’s not easy, it’s not predictable, it’s not good for your health or wealth, but it’s a great place to be while it lasts.
Don, Herr Doktor is a legend in his bath time.
SO@478:
SO, for crying out loud, give it a rest.
Fran Kelly of ABC RN must be still wetting her over Abbott’s red smudgies.
centre@490:
He has sex?
The world needs photos!
Peter Young @ # 610
When the vote is taken it will make for a great photo opportunity. A photo to be kept as a reminder for future generations.
A big assumption Master Peter. The caravan is moving on and at least in the near to median term and there is a very good chance that there will not be any photo opportunity. The window of opportunity was missed by a party and its supporters who are selfish and immature (both mentally and politically).
Just remember Master Peter that the only political party to vote to do anything for the environment is Labor and this is what our children will lean when they do Australian History in the years to come.
It will show how Labor abandoned the planet and joined the arch capitalist, one of Australia’s richest men, in implementing a do nothing policy.
History y will show that the Labor Party tries on at least three occasions to introduce an ETS but was blocked in the Senate by the deniers in the Liberals and the uncaring Greens who were more concerned about their political survival then in addressing the issue.
It will show how the fore-lock tugging Laborites, were brown nosing the capitalists, the property developers and the spivs and shonks of the business
This is a good example of the Greens and their supporters putting their heads in the sand. We live in a society where the economic system is run on the basis of free enterprise and private ownership of the means of production and for you to describe those who work and live and manage that system in that way shows how out of touch you are. This system is not going to transform to a centrally controlled economy any day soon. All this statement does is show your lack of understandings of the system and the role the Government plays in it.
Don @ # 618
“Although Psephos does not seem to remember who he had just had sex with
He has sex?
The world needs photos!”
Stop
Stop
I am having breakfast and I would like to keep it down if possible.
#619
Spoken and authorised by the Liberal Party, McEwen Street, Canberra
HTT@540:
Then those stories about Queenslanders are true, then. Poor buggers.
Yes, PY, we can put that photo right next to the one of Bob Brown sitting with the likes of Barnaby to vote down the CPRS.
It will show how the Greens abandoned the planet and joined the arch capitalists in implementing a do nothing policy.
The property developers will be rooting for Kristina Keneally when the 2011 NSW election comes around.
IN A move that has delighted developers, the Premier has indicated that she will extend and make permanent special planning arrangements introduced as part of the federal government’s stimulus package.
SMH, Councils angry over potential planning power abuse
Peter Young @ # 621
Spoken and authorised by the Liberal Party, McEwen Street, Canberra
That is funny Master Peter, very funny.
You have missed you true vocation.
You should be comedian.
However, on second thought it is rather sad.
Such a demonstration of ignorance and irrelevance. But then again they say that pathos and comedy are two sides of the same face.
And I thought we were regressive here in SA…
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/id-like-to-see-legal-drinking-age-lifted-to-21-says-kevin-rudd/story-e6frea8c-1225828068038
Not that it affects me, but wtf?
Dunstan and Whitlam… we need you back more than ever. Your country needs you.
#623
Labor is sitting with the arch capitalist, one of Australia’s richest men, voting FOR the bill designed by Turnull.
The fact that Turnbull’s bill is mere fluff – is beside the point.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/at-the-end-of-the-day-the-kids-caned-kevin-on-qa/
I’d love to have seen this…
bob1234 @ # 626
What is more regressive.
We sit on our hand ad do nothing while young drivers kill themselves and their friends and other road users at an ever increasing rate because of the mixture of petrol alcohol and speed.
OR
We try and do something so that all young Australians can have a future.
It seems like almost every morning we wake up to another report of young people being killed and the pictures of grieving parents, family and friends as they try to come to terms with their loss.
Something has to be done to stop this carnage.
bob1234 – #626
Unfortunately, Dunstan is dead and Gough is not in the best of health.
You seem surprised Bob by the wowserism displayed by Rudd. No shock to me. I don’t think you need be concerned.
1. Rudd won’t start a campaign to educate people so they understand why the drinking age should be 21.
2. He won’t legislate in this area unless polling indicates he will personally benefit from it (stuff the fact it might be the right thing to do – see his failure to act in the Neal case).
Hmmm…..lift the legal age for drinking to 21? What a great idea!
That is going to happen at round about the same time Rudd takes over the running of public hospitals.
Just a comment on the decision to remove private college courses in hair dressing and cooking from the “skilled migrant” intake list.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/unis-welcome-move-but-private-colleges-angry-20100208-nnbq.html
I know it will be unpopular in some quarters but this is a good decision. All this was doing was reducing jobs for unskilled Australians. However they need to go one step further, and tighten up on some universities that have relaxed english language skill requirements to very low levels.
Desperate for cash, Adelaide University and Central Queensland to name two, have let in students with very low english test scores. It is a cynical move. People who are not functionally able to communicate in english are not going to get professional jobs, so again this is just an end-run around immigration tests.
It also has a regrettable knock-on effect of lowering educational standards in the University as well. Xanthippe regularly has to lecture foreign students who cannot understand the material. They are not bright students. Lets face it, if you can’t understand basic english, you are not well educated by Indian standards. We are getting far too many Asian students who were not good enough to get into university back in their home country.
This is not meant as an anti-immigration sentiment, just highlighting a need for reform.
Diogenes – #632
I hope you mean the 10th day of Never.
If not, and its going to happen any day soon, it will make criminals out of a lot of nice people.
Will someone please think of the children!
What is the point of passing tougher anti-drinkign laws when hardly a licensing branch in Australia enforces the existing laws on not serving intoxicated persons? Populist rubbish that avoids taking on hotel owners.
Um, it’s called individual responsibility? We should not be relying on big government to be parents.
Peter Young @ # 627
Labor is sitting with the arch capitalist, one of Australia’s richest men, voting FOR the bill designed by Turnull.
The fact that Turnbull’s bill is mere fluff – is beside the point.
Even if one was to accept you assessment, which I don’t, it is still miles ahead of anything the Greens have voted for.
Again I must point out to you Master Peter that this is another demonstration of irrelevancy on your part.
The question is, how bad will it get? Will we at some point see the Liberals as more socially progressive?
Let’s see, of all the things News.com.au can run with from lasts night’s Q & A, we get this
No booze before 21, says PM
Beer
KEVIN Rudd would like to see the legal drinking age lifted to 21.
Something he specifically said he was not committed to because he had no evidence to support the idea it worked.
Bob 1234
I was of the opinion that the Liberals were more socially progressive than Labor when it was under Turnbull
For example the league table would be typical right wing efficiency pollicy, and if the Liberals proposed it, there would be country wide strike by the teachers union
Also, before you start running with media and government lines about road deaths being out of control, I suggest you take a long deep breath and actually look at road death statistics in Australia from the 20th century and compare them to today. I think you’ll be rather shocked.
Don’t believe everything you read.
dovif, you’ve taken just one example. I don’t believe the MT Libs were more socially progressive than Rudd Labor.
No, The BUSH Recession continues…
Malcolm Turnbull is certainly more socially progressive than Rudd, but the the rest of the Liberal party? Not a chance.
A personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to them, even a PM. I don’t think it will happen anytime soon.
bob1234 @ # 636
Um, it’s called individual responsibility? We should not be relying on big government to be parents.
What a cop out. This is just as bad as the Americans and their mantra on guns “Guns don’t kill people, people do.”
Of cause if we follow this sort of thinking to it logical conclusion we would not have any laws at all.
According to Bob people must take responsibility for all the silly , dagerious and illegal things (at the moment) they do but we don’t need any laws to try and to impose such behaviour. Rape, theft frauds and killing is just a matter of personal responsibility
And how do the innocent take responsibility because some kid gets a few beers in him or her and then goes and kills a family or family member who just happened to be in the wrong place ant the wrong time.
A rule of anything goes that Bob is supporting is not a mark of a civilised society. This is how the jungle works.
Zoomster
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 8:16 am | Permalink
#610
“Yes, PY, we can put that photo right next to the one of Bob Brown sitting with the likes of Barnaby to vote down the CPRS. It will show how the Greens abandoned the planet and joined the arch capitalists in implementing a do nothing policy.”
Zoomster , th photo naturaly would also show th 2 Lib Senators crossing th floor to vote WITH Labor giving 34 votes FOR th ETS Bill
and wuld show those 5 Greens Senators WITH Barnaby & Minchin voting against th ETS Bill
So kids of tomorrow will see th 5 Greens against votes , if voted for th ETS Bill (would then make 39 votes out of a 76 seat Senate) , this WOULD hav passed th ETS Bill ! So kids can reely see it was th Greens who killed th ETS Bill
Yet we had “non Green” posters saying last nite th Greens did not prevent th ETS Bill being passed , and spammed this nonsense for 2 hours
Also in addition , I supose we could also hav a photo of HoR where th Libs did vote for th ETS Bill , meaning only 7 Lib Senators out of 37 Senate Libs were needed to pass th ETS th prev week without ANY Greens votes needed
Seeing at that time Turnbull was leader of Libs , AND th Libs had passed it in HoR as Liberal polisy one expects maybe 30 of th 37 Senate Libs wuld hav voted for it in th week of Greens staling
(when only 7 Lib Senate votes were actualy needed with Labors 32 votes to pass ETS Bill)
So that photo of Bob Brown/Milne/Minchin/Barnaby as voting buddys is evidense of TWO occasions in a week where Greens stopped th ETS Bill , and they alone did so on EACH occasion
Which makes me think of Oz Tragic’s post earlier this morning of th perpetual lie I think Greens reckon if they lie enuf times that they did not prevent th ETS Bill from being passed , people on PB may actualy believe them
Storm in a teacup people. Nothing to see here.
More concern about Rudd’s “reforms”, following on from the Ark Tribe case.
Union lashes out at fair work laws .
Tom’s comment earlier on this thread that choosing between the 2 major parties was like choosing a detergent – all come out of the same factory, made me think about the welded on Labor disciples claims that reform had to be taken very slowly. Perhaps that view arises out of a “lesson” learned from the reformist Whitlam years, whose government only lasted 2 short terms, last century.
However, taking last century’s lesson and applying it today has a major flaw. The world has changed – things move much faster. By applying the same brake pressure on reform that “should have” been applied last century, means by the time you get around to it, the world is a vastly different place, and the reform opportunity is lost.
So it seems the Howard-lite Labor Party of Rudd is operating on a fundamentally flawed basis.
Is Stephen Conroy becoming a mistake-prone liability?:
“Conroy put former MP forward for key IT job”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/conroy-put-former-mp-forward-for-key-it-job-20100208-nnbj.html
It isn’t that Kaiser was accused of electoral fraud, but that it appears to have been a corrupt process of political influence that got him a job in a private company contracted to the government for which he wasn’t qualified. It’s very tacky.
Ratsars, if that were true, i’d support drinking for any person of any age, but I do not. If you wish to lower the debate to dealing in absolutes and black and whites, then you do so.
Context, people, context.
1. Rudd was asked in the context of drinking v driving age – that is, in the US you can drive a few years before you’re allowed to drink.
2. He said he thought it was a good idea (personally) but that there would be no move to legislate unless evidence showed that it was, in fact, a good idea.
I’m surprised at how the Q & A is being reported. Yes, Rudd was asked tough questions, and generally dealt with them well, getting generous applause. He dealt with all questioners (and their questions) politely and with respect, even when he wasn’t being given that back.
On a couple of occasions, I had the feeling that the audience would have been ‘on side’ if he had dissed the questioner, but he didn’t go there.
The audience clearly reacted well when he talked about tolerance and inclusion and when he outlined his vision of Australia in 2020.
Ok, so you don’t support it potentially being Rudd Labor policy? Noted for posterity
That bloody chip on the shoulder playing up again Peter?
How strange that both bob and Peter were absent yesterday and both back here today. Is bob arguing, discussing, call it what you will, with himself?
Give the chip a real good scratch bob, it may help.
I’m surprised there are some Labor fools out there that still haven’t cottoned on to how Rudd works. These people really have been walking with their eyes closed haven’t they. If Rudd wants something but may be electorally unpopular, he won’t say this is government policy full stop. No, he’ll want to be as diplomatic and bureaucratic about it as possible. “Consultations”… “green/white papers”… “community meetings”… etc etc ad nauseum, then, when he decides the charade has gone on long enough, down comes the gavel, debate is guillotined (figuratively speaking), and then he’ll release selected data which from the start was designed to work in the government’s favour, and tell us all how it’s for the good of the kids, the good of the country, and based on sound data, research, and consultation.
But at least he’s not Howard.
GB please stick to the subject rather than the posters, it does not help to facilitate debate.
LOL. Coming from the greatest stirrer and name caller we’ve had here. A bit rich. I haven’t been banned by William. Have you bob?
Bob 123456 wanted to divert Thread AWAY from Greens sellout of CC that posters had blogged tythis morning by Ratsars , Zoom etc posted re Greens knocking back th ETS Bill
LAST WEEK BOB 123456 mislead this blog with a false anti Labor Murdoch story
over SA Laws re internet bloggers
It was found th Murchdoch story to use our modorators words was a beat up
and Bob 123456 did not read th article in full
Bob 123456 is doing it again
anothr false anti labor Murdoch headline re over 21 drinking
Rudd supports lifting drinking age to 21
BS Murdoch and Bob 123456
“While being grilled by a roomful of young Australians on ABC Television’s Q&A program last night Mr Rudd was asked if he would like raise the legal drinking age to 21.
“Of course,” was Mr Rudd’s laughing reply.
However he went on to qualify his answer.
“If the evidence is there and it is capable of being proven that it works, then we (will) look at these things and make a decision,” Mr Rudd said.
Mr Rudd told the audience, including 200 high school students, that booze, like alcopops, was a concerning factor in P-Plate driving deaths.
The) drinking rates of young teenagers (is) going through the roof … and hugely affecting their ability to, frankly, manoeuvre a car.”
He stopped short of calling for a federal intervention, but said “a whole lot of work” was needed to address the alarming road toll.
“The Federal Government was working to regulate car safety standards across the states, and automatic systems in cars for better handling,” he added.
how about back to Greens preventing passing of ETS Bill bob 123456
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/7189694/Sarah-Palin-caught-with-crib-notes-on-her-hand.html
If this was Obama it would be all over Fox News. As it stands, there is nothing.
JV – $650
Mike Kaiser is from Labor Right -
# he can do no wrong
# even when he is wrong – he is right.
z
1. The evidence is well and truly in that raising the drinking age to 21 reduces road fatalities.
2. You can drive a few years before you can drink here too. You can drive at 16 in some states.
There is still no way Rudd will bring it in. He’s losing votes in the 18-35 age group to the Greens already and I can’t see him annoying them further.
Ron, unless you haven’t noticed, throughout all times on PB I have rarely debated climate change.
Two points:
a) Greens polling better than ever both currently and on trend, state and federally.
b) I can form proper sentences.
Discussion over.
Bob “please stick to the subject rather than the posters, it does not help to facilitate debate.”
LOL that’s a good one!
A survey of the world’s various laws on drinking age is interesting. 18 is the norm. The US with its legal drinking age of 21 years is up there with the Muslim states (where drinking is permitted at all). The most liberal area seems to be Europe, with many nations having no minimum age at all.
In North Korea the minimum age is 18, but they only serve alcohol on Saturdays. What torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age
I don’t believe I referred to anyone.
But if Labor supports it, it must be right
Bob “please stick to the subject rather than the posters, it does not help to facilitate debate.”
GB I can also breath air and walk around and tie my shoelaces. I can do many things. Please, stick to discussion.
I should have included the reference.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/09/29/nelson.retain.drinking.age/
Oh, so it is ok to lump everyone here into a heading of “Labor fools” is it?
Not so good is it bob when your words come back to haunt you? Take a long hard look in the mirror old son.
#654
Diagnosis:
Not up to handling the pace resulting in manifestations of delusional behaviour.
Zoom
I gave Rudd 8/10 for QANDA
Cuppla slipups and a bit terse but beyond that, areally engaging perfomance.
We should have more of it!
This chip is a constant useless part of your ‘debating armoury’ for want of a better term. What a waste of time.
If this is the standard of proof needed, Michael Jackson’s doctor is completely rooted. His medical care is so far out of the bounds of reasonable medical practice that it’s not even in the same country.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/michael-jacksons-doctor-charged-with-manslaughter/story-e6frea6u-1225828107808
Bruce and TTH
Lets stop calling it the Obama/Bush recession
It really is just the American recession, there are plenty of blame to go around
You can go back to Jimmy Carter, Reagan and Clinton for causing the bubble
Bush(s) Clinton for laxing the bank regulations
LBJ for securitising the mortgages
Obama for over borrowing and letting the first bank fail
The reserve for keeping interest rate too low
And thank god that we did not have as many problems in Australia
If that’s your problem Peter you had better do something about it.
678 – Agree totally dovif. I was just trying to show TTH how ridiculous his blame game BS is really.
bob1234
Also, before you start running with media and government lines about road deaths being out of control, I suggest you take a long deep breath and actually look at road death statistics in Australia from the 20th century and compare them to today. I think you’ll be rather shocked.
Don’t believe everything you read.
So now it is ok because less are being killed now then in previous years.
You mean like some of the facts and figures on this site?
http://163.189.7.150/roadsafety/downloads/crashes_involving_young_drivers.pdf
Here are a few quotes.
People under 26 comprise only 15% of driver licences but are involved in 36% of road fatalities.
A 17-year-old driver with a P1 licence is about four times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than a driver aged 26 or older.
Young drivers have a greater risk of involvement in a fatal crash if they have two or more passengers.
Numerous international and national studies, along with an analysis of NSW crash data, have confirmed the increased risk for young drivers at night.
Young drivers with a P licence are six times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash between 10pm and 5am than other drivers.
Or this site http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/strategy/safer_road_users/drink_driving/drink_driving.html
“Drink driving contributes up to 30 per cent of driver and rider deaths on Victoria’s roads each year.”
and on http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/strategy/safer_road_users/young_drivers/young_drivers.html
Alcohol is a contributing factor in some 20 per cent of deaths in drivers aged 18 to 20 years and some 50 per cent of deaths in drivers aged 21 to 25 years.
And if you look at the graph on that page you will see that young drivers are well over represented in road deaths.
But we will just ignore these sorts of facts and go on what Bob feels.
The reduction in the Australian road toll has been remarkable. However surely as a society we should do everything we can to further reduce the toll. However look at my 20 year old and her friends I can see that when it comes to drink driving they operate a strict risk minimization policy by having a designated driver when they go out. They are far more sensible than I ever was.
The things that would go a long way toward further reducing the toll are unlikely to get up: tachographs in all trucks and buses and banning motor cycles.
Lifting the drinking age from 18 to 21 is regressive and a deprivation of individual rights and civil liberties. Considering all of this, a lift to 21 would be a net negative, not a net positive.
Not to mention that if any 16 year old can get drunk these days, any 19 year old can if it were to come in to law.
It’s called individual responsibility. In Australia, at 18, we are universally an adult, and can do anything. To JUST raise drinking to 21 is out of step with the rest of the world sans the US.
People need to stop relying on the government to fix our problems all the time.
I really wonder what’s happened to Labor when a forum full of their supporters want the drinking age to be raised to 21. It’s so depressing.
Rudds campaign slogan in 2007 was New Leadership .
Perhaps it should have been “New Followship” (or for the god-botherer market “New Fellowship”).
bob1234 @ # 651
Ratsars, if that were true, i’d support drinking for any person of any age, but I do not. If you wish to lower the debate to dealing in absolutes and black and whites, then you do so.
bob1234 @ # 636
Um, it’s called individual responsibility? We should not be relying on big government to be parents.
Your words Bob not mine.
Bob1234
IMHO the debate about 21 yo drinking laws is a waste of space (I think thats the 2nd time I have ever agreed with Gary Bruce on anything).
The support for 21 year old drinking laws is fully explainable by the phenonemen known as “discipleship:.
That’s the problem with modern Labor PY. They’ve shifted so far to the right that their dyed in the wool supporters know internally that they are constently being hypocritical.
Whatever Dear Leader says, hey…
Won’t happen. Storm in a teacup. People with opinions only. Not supported by a majority. Politically unwise. Won’t happen. Ever heard the saying “getting one’s knickers in a knot”?
Again, you’re dealing in absolutes and black and whites. No I do not support children legally being able to buy and consume alcohol. I do however support an 18 year old adult being able to. Raising it above this is simply nanny-stateism.
If you think a level of individual responsibility = absolute anarchy, then the discussion is lost on you.
That chip again. Same debating point over and over again.
bob1234 @ # 683
Lifting the drinking age from 18 to 21 is regressive and a deprivation of individual rights and civil liberties. Considering all of this, a lift to 21 would be a net negative, not a net positive.
So now there is a right to drive while legless.
Peter, you’ve seen the light twice. Let’s hope there’s a third time in the not too distant future.
But yet no reply to it has ever been given apart from “that chip” et al. Speaks volumes really…
Huh?
Looking at this, there might be a compromise in this topic that Rudd could consider. Quite a few countries differentiate between beer/wine and spirits wrt the drinking age.
A possible outcome could be to keep it at 18 for beer/wine and increase it to 21 for spirits.
http://www.icap.org/Table/MinimumAgeLimitsWorldwide
Well, that debating point, bob, is designed to do one thing and that is stir. It ads nothing to the debate and is not worth responding to other than in the manner I’m responding to it.
Gary Bruce – #694
However, you are the true disciple. The other wannabe disciples just read the words 21 year old drinking limit and went into bat. You took the words literally – including “personal view” – and pointed out that politicians are entitled to hold personal views.
Don’t know how soon it will be before Rudd says something I agree with.
Not according to Dio and he’s right. Same chip Peter – interesting.
It seems I’m the only one without STFU.
Great. Then how about outlawing drinking altogether. It’s not only the young that drink drive and die. Or better yet, let’s outlaw driving altogether, then we’ll all be safe.
You’re not a true PB Labor supporter until you get it. Stifle debate and block opposing views now!
The main headline on the front page of the Financial Review today is that the December review of the federal budget points to the budget deficit being some $7bn lower than expected at budget time.
If government says it then it must be right.
A change of view of me bob. See Dio is correct.
Hey bob, ever voted Liberal, Green, Democrat and/or Labor?
Dio@697:
I am in favour of not having an age limit at all – but that would require a large change in Australian society, so that drinking alcohol to excess is not seen as a good thing, and all parents would have a responsibility to show by example that drinking to excess is dumb, and simply does not occur.
It’s not going to happen real soon.
Though to be fair, Australia drinks far less alcohol than many other places, including most of europe.
The “chip debating point” again.
Oh, and this was a “chip debating point” as well.
GB@701:
I don’t use it.
bob and PY and HTT and Ratsars give me a good laugh now and again at their expense. It’s good to see what those sections of the community are talking about.
Is Abbott seriously trying to scare us with the increased costs of ironing? As a scare campaign goes the thought of perpetual wrinkly shirts isn’t too terrifying. Also does it not strike anyone as ridiculous that you’d quibble on your ironing costing a few cents more with a CPRS?
Socrates@633
Some would be if their home country did not have racist entry requirements.
don@710
Neither do I. Although I was considering writing an update that had “ban” words e.g.:
ShowsOn idiot
Gusface GAS
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/at-the-end-of-the-day-the-kids-caned-kevin-on-qa?from=news.com.au
Wow the kids are seeing through Kevin Dudd as well
But that would be a SLIPPERY SLOPE!
bob1234@703
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
don
I’m too biased to venture an opinion as I see the results of drink-driving 18-25 year olds.
As you say, the culture is the problem.
bob
Rudd was asked whether he would like to see the drinking age raised. He actually answered it honestly. It peeves me when people complain about pollies being all spin and then jump down their throats when they tell the truth for once.
And Gary isn’t a hack. He’s extremely reasonable and doesn’t have the pathological hatred of the Greens which is a hallmark of hackdom.
Mus
I alsmost made to the hall of infamy
the shame the shame
The Punch bagging the PM? I’m shocked. He did fine, and just because someone asks a question saying the PM has broken a promise doesn’t make it so. The first question of the night about laptops was a prime example, and it was pretty clear the girl who asked it had absolutely no idea what the promise was in the first place.
What was the promise?
As – I’m guessing – one of the younger contributors here, let me add my opinion Re: Lifting the Legal Drinking Age.
1. It was just an opinion. You want the PM to answer honestly, he did. Doesn’t mean every 20 year old in the country should be running out to stockpile booze in case they can’t do it next month.
2. As many have noted, would it really stop excessive and/or underage drinking? Can you imagine 19 year olds wanting a drink, “but oh no, I’m legally not allowed to, I’d better not”
I’m 23, I’ve seen plenty of examples first hand, not just the sensationalist, condescending soundbites and videoclips on the news every now and then when they feel like highliting this issue. I’ve seen 15, 16, 17 year olds unable to stand or utter a coherent sentence. I’ve seen people (of all ages I might add) down half a dozen schooners, grab their keys and head straight for their car.
Rightly or wrongly, people need to learn some individual responsibility. Sure, have a good time, I sure as hell have. Unfortunately there is no legislating against stupidity.
musrum 712
That is beside the point, doesn’t justify watering down our standards, and only applies to some groups anyway. We are talking about “skilled” immigration, not the Colombo Plan Mk.II. Most Indians coming here are not barred from their universities on ethnic grounds. If they aren’t, then we could decide to take them as some form of development assistance, but then they should have some bridging courses to get them up to entry standards. But we don’t, because they just want the visa and our colleges just want the money.
My point doesn’t just apply to Indians either; I can think of Tiawanese and Korean students who have good (public) uniersities in their own country. They come here beceause they missed out getting into their free university back home but their parents have enough money to buy them in. We were helping neither the poor nor the deserving with our previous (stuid) training migration policy.
I don’t have it either but perhaps I should consider it. Socratic Irony doesn’t seem to be a sufficient deterent
Governemnt’s home insulation program foiled:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/govt-suspends-use-of-foil-insulation-20100209-no8x.html
For those who wear them, it seems now is the chance to stock up on surplus material for some new foil hats.
don @ # 707
Drinking by children and teenagers is a problem because, accordingly to the NSW Dept of Health it can cause harm.
See http://www.health.gov.au/internet/…nsf/…/drinking_nightmare_brochure.doc
Titled “Alcohol and young people: A guide for parents”
Other than that you are correct in that it is the abuse of alcohol and its combination with other activities like driving or swimming that causes the problems. Some of these like driving or using heavy machinery the community has a responsibility to try and eliminate the potential for harm and it should not be left to the “cup out” of“ personal responsibility. However, in other areas of private endeavour like swimming while legless the community can do little and it must be all down to personal responsibility.
Implicit in the drinking age debate is that as a group 21yos handle grog better than 18yos. IME, they don’t. That seems to begin from about 23 upwards.
The Tiser has a poll on raising the drinking age to 21. It’s about 50:50. The % mean very little but the numbers are interesting as a gauge of how highly it is rated as an issue and almost 4000 votes have been cast so far which is a very high number (and it’s not obviously a Labor v Lib issue so it’s probably not due to staffers).
So people, one way or another, are interested in the issue.
http://www.allsp.com/loading.php?url=l.php?id=e187
Hahaha, I can’t figure out if the Australian PM was Rudd or Howard! How coincidental
gus,
Keep trying. You can do it. I’m sure you can make it.
Be back later. Off to buy beer for my stockpile.
:LOL:
Ah, the juvenile name calling.
Hear hear!!
Saw Rudd on QUANDA last night. I thought he did pretty well. A solid 8/10.
At first i thought his manner seemed almost aggressive, but I pretty much came around to the view after watching the whole thing that he was trying to treat the gathered young folk as adults. A lot of the questions were framed in less than complementary or even provocative ways, and Rudd came back with clear, direct answers for the most part and did NOT appear in any way condescending towards his questioners . He obviously took the forum seriously and i think that will play well with that demographic.
And, given the potential for complete and utter disaster inherent in that forum he should have been taking it seriously!! Leader of the Govt that faces an election this year, alone, taking questions without notice from a large audience that includes many (shudder!!) teenagers.
I saw a post earlier in the thread where i think Glen suggested that Tony Abbott should get the same “opportunity”. YES, YES,YES!!! As someone who, shall we say, that is very unlikely to support the Libs at the election this year, I would like nothing better than to see Tony Abbott have to front that kind of audience. I’d refer people back to his woeful performance on 7:30 report a week or so ago for my reason why. And all he had to deal with was Red Kerry then, he probably got most of the questions beforehand (do they still do that in the MSM??), and he still blew it.
Well thank god we don’t decide public policy by dodgy polls.
Ron Boswell has probably escaped further censure – just.
“It wasn’t intended for her. It was intended for Parkinson. Probably if I’d been a bit more thoughtful I wouldn’t have used it.”
Boswell article link:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/china-comment-no-insult-to-wong-boswell-20100209-no8h.html
jaundiced view, the Boswell thing is a beat up. From memory he called Bill Heffernan “China” once during an argument during Estimates. I suppose we should check the tapes to see whether Penny Wong was in the room at the time.
The Liberal kids that is.
Oh, and considering Barnyard and Tanner will be fronting up to each other on the next QUANDA, i think that we can lay to rest all accusations of bias against the ALP by the ABC (at least on telly)!!
Could it become the most recorded show of the year by political tragics?? there are sure to be moments that will be watchable again and again and again……..
Take an adult with you Peter.
DaveM – it seems to me that P Platers seem to be quite aware of the risk to their licence if they are caught drink driving,
To the half wits who seem to think that reducing the road toll is a bad thing: STFU
I am not saying that under 21s should be banned from drinking alcohol. Firstly the medical evidence seems to be that it is probably at 25 that alcohol ceases to have a negative effect on the brain. However a ban to 25 would be unrealistic and have unintended consequences. But we are reaching a point where the costs to society from substance abuse are becoming out of control and something needs to be done. But what that something is I have no idea.
I had missed the earlier references to drinking age in relation to the road toll, but would like to add a few comments.
- the (per capita) Australian road toll has reduced a lot over 1970s levels and is now better than average for OECD nations (much less than USA)
- however our rate of improvement leveled off in the early 2000s decade; serious injury accidents (as opposed to fatalities) may be increasing slightly since then.
- one of the main causal facors in the recent reversal is the growing incidence of large heavy 4WDs on our roads. These have high “aggressivity” (propensity to kill occupants of other vehicles hit) and poor rollover performance, because they are usually counted as light commercials and aren’t subject to the same crash-testing regime. *** POLICY MAKERS TAKE NOTE! See
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/Other/RACV%204WD%20crash%20involvement%20patterns%20summary.pdf
- drink driving is still a problem, but mainly in rural areas. The incidence of drink-driving related fatalities in major cities is probably half what it was in the early 80s when tough DD laws were introduced. There is a particular problem with young males in rural cities; the odds of an 18 year old dying in a road crash in Dubbo or Wagga is more than double the same aged male in Sydney or Melbourne, even allowing for the distance driven. At this point I think the problem is attitude, not education or information. Most young people know it is dangerous to drink drive, but still do it.
- speed cameras make little difference; there is no substitute for police presence.
- draconian laws have an initial effect but wear off. You need to change attitudes.
- there is a growing problem with pedestrian and cyclist fatalities in cities. Our death rate per cyclist is VERY bad by international standards. We engineers have been far too guilty of biasing road investments towards cars not bikes.
Socrates@722
I agree in the general case. My point is that if we are not careful, be may exclude the rich(ish) and deserving. These are the people that when they go back to their home countries will carry a strong positive experience of Australia which will enhance our future engagement with the region… (or so we hope)
Don @ # 710
bob and PY and HTT and Ratsars give me a good laugh now and again at their expense. It’s good to see what those sections of the community are talking about.
Still holding a grudge I see don.
However, it seems you were unable to adhere to you promise to “scroll through” my posts. I think it is time you moved on and stopped feelings guilty because you were carrying on like a goose.
Itep
They were being questioned at the same time I thought, but the public servant had spoken last, from what I understood. But you’re right – it won’t go any further.
I don’t think Ratsars is anything like the other three.
Gary Bruce #654
For example, GB, try PY’s #661 post:
Mike Kaiser!! Blamed by the LNP for masterminding the 2009 election campaign which returned the Bligh Government.
Not someone who isn’t a Qlder (or just below the border) is likely to know enough about to type the above post!
Though they might be the same person, they might also not be individuals at all but aliases for any number of posters from RWDB followers of La Rouche, DLP, Pauline Hanson, ALoR, or some of the religious sects we know exist thanks to 4 Corners exposees (& more recent shock-jock instigated, supposedly-Liberal anti-Turnbull spam blogging, twittering, etc). What they hate most are significant ‘l’ liberals of any party – Turnbull’s being one of them.
Groups of this sort are well established in my area; originally (early Rona Joiner/ Bjelke Petersen era) as voluminous letter-writers, now as blog & news item posters. They hide as ex-ALP voters; as in I voted ALP/ Green in the last election, but … or as major party members/ voters (ALP, Libs) who are reconsidering resigning membership and never voting for the party again – as happened to Malcolm Turnbull (qv above).
They try to pass themselves off as L/NP (usually Liberal) or Greens; but give themselves away by singing from the same old Cold War / racist era song books and economic manifestos & throwing around the same era’s pejoratives, and using well-honed linguistic tactics.
PY’s recent OC deluge against SA all-party-supported legislation requiring bloggers to identify themselves lends credibility to my aliases & theory & methodology used. RW religious sects & small political groups were those most threatened by the SA legislation.
It sounds like Boswell has covered his rrrs well. It’s a dead issue I reckon.
If this is referring to the girl who asked about the broken laptop promise, I didn’t see Rudd on TV but did see the question in later news highlights. I thought it was one of the most obviously rehearsed questions I have seen in some time. The girl delivered it in a deadpan manner that made it sound like her parents had forced her to memorise it.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/belinda-neal-says-up-yours-mr-rudd/story-e6frewt0-1225827411393
I might be a bit late on this, but Labor needs more Women with the balls of Belinda Neal
musrum 743
If that were the case I agree it would be bad. However in reality most of the poorer quality foreign students Xanthippe has dealt with are just here to get PR, then bring their parents over. They have no intention, or expectation, of filling a skilled vacancy.
What no childish name calling this time?
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/belinda-neal-just-wont-yield/story-e6frezz0-1225827414975
Belinda Neal to Kevin Rudd “Do you know who I am”
Rudd: hope the Liberal win that seat back
GB@746:
He is a scroll through like the others, but for different reasons.
There is no point in responding to his posts because he appears incapable of having a rational discussion.
dovif,
When you brave talking Libs tap Bronnie, Wilson and Albie Schultz on the shoulder, then maybe you can start criticising the Labor pre selection processes.
Gary Bruce
Name calling, when you are pulling up the Labor hacks for name calling, then I will start listening to you.
Have you ever said anything about the Liberal flag with LIAR on it, or calling Howard Coward or Lying rodent, or Abbott the mad monk
Get off your high horse, if you are going to police name calling, start with your Labor hacks
Socrates@749
I can’t watch these sort of shows. Some of these young adults and their questions are as creepy as a five-year-old in full makeup.
dovif
I wouldn’t take much notice of the content of that Tele article, when Jameson has actually been pre-selected for the Libs.
GG
I am not criticising the Labor pre-selection process, or their preference of having talentless wives/husbands of powerbrokers in parliament
In fact I wish there was more of them. Belinda Neal had provided me with endless hours of entertainment and I hope she wins her pre-selection
Forget the others. I’m talking to you. I don’t name call. It is childish nonsense. You’re like the kid who gets caught stealing and squeals, “Well, he did it too.” Does that make it right?
Dovif, we have already established that the Daly Torygraph’s allegation about Neal defying Rudd’s instruction is false. Peter Young, hardly a Labor supporter, confirmed this. Do what he did and check for yourself – Rudd never told Neal to get “anger management.” That term was invented by the media. He told her to get “counselling”, which she did. This is a Torygraph anti-Labor fabrication.
Socrates, i watched that segment about the laptops and the girl who asked the question seemed quite worked up about it. It was almost like the question had been framed in such a way that she thought Rudd could have NO good answer for it. I think he answered it well, in a fashion that made it plain that regardless of her expectation on that issue, the govt was on track for meeting the actual commitment they made at the election.
I’d go back to a point i made earlier. Rudd appeared to go to some lengths to NOT be condescending to his audience which i think would have been an easy trap for a politician to fall into in this particular forum.
He wasn’t harsh or bullying with them, but it was aslo obvious he also wasn’t going to take any crap. If these people, and i wont call them kids as that would be condescending
,want to play with the big boys and girls on a national stage then fine. but they if they want to give it out they can take it as well.
It was a bit funny the last one. From someone who was referred to in an earlier post as “Alexander Downers son”. That was pure Dorothy Dixer but by that stage i think Rudd deserved a bit of a let off.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd refused to get involved to save Ms Neal and has endorsed a rank and file ballot.
Federal Labor MP Belinda Neal skips crucial debate in Canberra to plea to branch members in Woy Woy
Why not get involved?
A statement like this is all that is necessary:
“Recent media reports that I ordered Belinda Neal to attend anger management counselling, and that she defiantly refused to obey that direction are incorrect.
I requested her to attend counselling, not anger management counselling as reported in the media. She did attend counselling as I asked her to.
I am drawing this to your attention now to enable a fair and just pre-selection ballot to occur in the seat of Robertson. Pre-selectors should make their decision based on the merits of the candidates, not on the basis of misinformation.”
I’m not sure it’s solely the Labor side of politics that preselects partners of influencial politicians. For instance, just off the top of my head, Florence Bjelke Peterson was a senator and Helen Kroger is currently a senator. Note, I’m not calling these people untalented.
Gary Bruce
It seems you have no problems when any Labor Hacks are name calling, but you have a problem when the Liberal Hacks are name calling …. no that does not make it right
As I said, if you have a problem with me calling Kevin Dudd, you should have the same problem everytime someone refer to Abbott as the Mad Monk
If you have no problem with someone calling Abbott the Mad Monk, or have not said anything to those people, it makes you a hypocrite
dovif,
I hope the trio mentioned win their seats as well as duds like Ruddock. That will show the renewal of the Libs is years away. You’ll have happy years of being amused by colourful Labor characters because you’ve got nothing else to look forward to. I suppose you need a hobby to hide your bitterness and disappointment.
I thought William banned “Dudd” and a few other names for both sides of politics some time ago actually. By the way, most here don’t use such derogative names and when they do William stops them. I call Abbott “Tone” but that’s his name.
What? Abbott himself has used that name and wears it like a badge of honour. Try again.
No, I’d be a hypocrite if I also did the name calling. I don’t. As I said it is childish and you know it.
I don’t know the context of Boswell’s use of the word, but ‘China’ is a colloquialism that was widely used as an alternative to ‘mate’ and particularly ‘sport’ in the decades that he (and I) were growing up. It is an alternative to ‘mate’ and ‘sport’ but mostly used with a warning tone as in “Watch yourself, China,” or to indicate annoyance. I don’t know its origins, however, AFAIK, it has no racial connotations, though directing it at someone of Asian heritage would be unwise which may be why it has fallen out of favour. But then so many of our colloquialisms have, which, IMHO, isn’t necessarily a good thing.
Gary Bruce @ # 746
I don’t think Ratsars is anything like the other three.
Thank you Gary.
Don at the moment has a problem with me. I thought that he might have moved on but alas …
We had a disagreement a few weeks ago and I think I hurt his feelings by pointing out that though generally his post were clear, focused and concise on that particular occasion this was not the case.
He promised to “scroll through” my posts in future but it appears he can’t move on. It is a pity that he continues with what amounts to an electronic version of “no talkies” because a lot of his posts are quite good and there is usually a fair amount of agreement between us.
Maybe time will heal the wounds to his ego.
Gary Bruce
If there is the same rules for all, I am happy to abide by them.
I have seen Howard referred to as the Lying Rodent more than 100 times. I just think that is very mean for all the rodents of the world
China is slang, IE China Plate= mate.
That’s right, anger or anti-bullying management counselling does not appear to have been specified by the PM for Belinda. The purpose of the counselling he ordered could have been anything, I guess: Shyness? Lack of self-esteem? Fear of heights, mice or butterflies? Broccolini aversion therapy?
That was also banned by William, hence the attenpts to get around it at times using expressions meaning the same thing.
Gary, love the passive aggresive,
“Oh I don’t call people names, to do that would be childish, stupid, and you would have to have big ears and a funny nose, you so and so. I’d never do that, only silly people would do that . only people with parrot poo on their shoulders, yeh so there,.”
Oh come on, the level of discussion here has reached all time lows. there is a real by-election in Melbourne, 3million litres of petrol nearly blew the western suburbs of the face of the earth and some of the bloggers here seem to be more interested in petty nonsense.
Please.
Briefly said:
Well, I recoil in shock at Labor’s plan to extend ‘welfare quarantining’. I have been aware of this for a while and noted, as Eva Cox has, that Labor’s ‘income management’ plan for welfare recipients has received very little attention. Labor hasn’t abandoned anything – Pull the other one.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/02/05/pushing-bad-policy-against-the-evidence
By the way dovif, the “Lying Rodent” monica was coined by one of your own boys.
imacca #762
Marcus Rudd is 16, Nicholas c6 years older, Jessica c10 yrs older. I assume they all bring/ brought home friends; so their Dad is an Old Hand at talking intelligently to high school kids and uni students … putting up with adolescent rebellion & mood swings, brat-behaviour, iPods & all … the Rudd family equivalent of Tony’s daughter’s lame, gay, churchy loser.
Of course he knows how to talk to/ cope with kids! So, incidentally, does Tony; though, going by yesterday’s ironing effort, not their mothers! Must have been on the blower to those 50s’ relics Howie & Pell!
OzPol Tragic, your 747 post is spot on. Wearing a Green mask while you trot out the latest talking points is a very transparent ploy.
The Boswell quip was one of those situations where using the common vernacular can get you in to trouble if the malice police in the press get their way.
There is a famous story about the West Indies cricketers on tour in country Victoria. The WI had played the local side and a fabulous day had been had by all. Just as the team bus was about to depart a young lady jumped on board and asked if she could take a photograph.
The WI were happy to oblige. Unfortunately, the cheery smiles dissipated when the girl called out, “Now just say Coon”.
I wouldn’t think describing an act as childish as being a case of name calling. I’m using as a descriptor not a noun.
And you add to it by saying -
Gary, love the passive aggresive,
You can’t have it both ways Barking.
Gary, the quote was you, that is the type of thing you say. Dear me.
Gary,
You were expecting consistency and adherence to principle from a Greens supporter?
I posted this on the Altona by-election thread, but thought I would repost it here as no-one much goes there.
Maybe someone can answer the question:-
what is the benchmark that has to be beaten for me to be proved right?
BTW – must be office lunch-hour. The post rate has slowed down considerably.
Stick to working for the Israeli propaganda Dep dovif,at least there they guide what you write
How many other Prime Ministers could have appeared before a group as Rudd did and pull it off – not many that I can think off.
I too think it was a solid 8/10. The first 20 minutes the crowd seemed to be against Rudd and it was harder going for him. The middle 20 minutes, Rudd started to gain their respect. I thought he handled the varied questions in a manner that was understood by most of the audience – generally more clear and less wordy – this is still a work in progress.
The last 20 minutes – there was emotion, some passion to go reason and intelligence and that really made a difference. I reckon he won over many in the crowd – there was spontaneous applause.
All in all, I think was gutsy. How about he try the same with a different demographic? Say the over 50s – so he could meet head on some of the concerns they have.
Albert
Looking at that article Ratsars linked, the 21-25 yo group had a much higher % of their accidents as a result of alcohol (40% I think) than the 18-21 yo group which was 20% or so.
Perhaps a lower blood alcohol limit in under 25s might help.
Rudd about to do a press conference. You can watch it live here:
http://abc.net.au/streaming/abc-video2.asx
Rather than changing the drinking age, they should just make it that people under the age of 21 must have a blood alcohol level of 0.
Just pinpoint where I said this Barking. You still joined the discussion though didn’t you. Did you think I wouldn’t respond?
SO
Certainly worth considering. This shows BAL legal limits by country.
0.05% is the most common but a lot have a lower limit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content
I should add that the US has much stricter laws for under 21s than 0.08% (0.01-0.05% depending on state).
i supppose you have all read the story re the ironing in crickey home page.
Doesnt he know that all modern young men now iron their shirts ( well some just wear them) most young ones i know iron their own clothes even if they have a partner these days.
Oh dear, Joyce engages mouth before brain once again.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/09/2814351.htm
The problem is that Joyce actually believes what he says. Most Liberals just pretend that our level of debt is a problem, but Joyce buys what they say and it makes him worry.
The other aspect of cause is the racist lilt by saying the debt is being bought by people overseas:
This is what is wrong with journalism. Sam Maiden’s Twitter:
Rudd isn’t playing the National Security Card at all.
A better example of that would be Peter Reith saying that asylum seekers arriving on boats could be terrorists during the 2001 election campaign.
I haven’t watched a presser of Rudd for a while. He’s rambling more than ever.
The post rate has most probably slowed because since early this morning there has been probably the biggest number of “baiting” and “tr*lling” posts that I have seen for quite a while.
I bet the viewing rate has gone down as well because I can’t imagine too many viewers sticking around to witness this exhibition of moronic, childish, imbecility for too long.
They surely have much better things to do with their time!
Did Rudd come on to talk about Rudd’s plans or Abbott’s lack of plans?
I’m not going to condone something that I hated about Howard.
But I will give credit to Rudd for that little bit there about how Rudd and Labor learnt from the 80s and 90s and invested to protect Australian jobs. So basically here we have a more interventionist (left) government than Hawke/Keating economically (in some respects), yet more socially conservative than the past few Labor governments.
Is Labor going back to the Calwell days? Oh god.
If you had it installed Gary, there would be barely a post left to read!
Probably a good thing at present IMHO!
Aww, end of the presser.
What’s your evidence for this assertion?
He was asked a bloody question about it. Should he have not answered it? Sheesh.
Apparently Abbott said: “Yes, we can” (for winning the next election) on the ETS issue.
How delusional can you get. It’s the economy, stupid. Always has been and always will be.
Judging from what Abbott and Barnyard have said about the Australian economy. They have no credibility at all on economic management, and Sloppy AWOL with Turnbull. There is more than NONE.
Economic Management for Australia will be always better and trusted under Labor.
For most of the presser, Rudd was talking about Abbott. Who is running the government? Why isn’t he talking about his government’s plans and progress? Are they that vacuous…?
And it continues Scorpio. You can see it now.
LOL! Did you even watch all of it? The first half was the government announcing new air port security.
Psephos,
Don’t be so naive, Adam!
For a number of commenters here “assertions” are all they can offer.
Assertions are easy and don’t require “evidence” and are a common tactic in “baiting” and “tr*lling” which has been rampant today!
But now Abbott is stuck, if he shifts Barnyard to another portfolio, then he will look like a bad decision maker.
I watched it too you know and what you are saying is crap. Ley me ask again -
He was asked a question about it. Should he have not answered it?
AdelaideNow:
Politics is about impressions. Like with net filtering and comment crackdowns, the increasing perception is that Labor cracks down on things young people enjoy. Very regressive. The Green vote continues to reach new heights.
If you want to see what the Green vote does when people tire of Labor, just look at the basketcase of NSW – 17%. Sounds more like what you’d see in Tasmania.
Ley = let
People keep saying we’re due for it, but I really hope another 60s/70s wave of mainstream progressive thought comes along soon. With each regressive decision Labor makes, the more the people will be enraged enough to rebel…
There’s an MPI on today’s program:
“The failure of the Government to honour its explicit commitment to act with ‘integrity’” proposed by Mr A. D. H. Smith (Casey).
Similar theme to yesterday’s.
briefly
That the ALP have moved to the right in recent years is beyond dispute. As they did so, the Greens have started to fill the room on the left. Yes the Liberals are more right than the ALP, irrelevant to the point being made.
No I didn’t see that. I watched the last 5 minutes and it was all about Abbott.
Yesterday’s censure motion I mean.
I was not paying attention when the “every kid gets a laptop” myth began, but I was present at the beginning of the “Kevin Rudd said he wanted to raise the drinking age to 21” myth began. I saw it on TV and now have the transcript, which I reproduce below:
‘TONY JONES: Right. Let’s get an answer – a specific answer – to Linna Wei’s question about raising the drinking age – the legal drinking age – to 21. Would you consider it?
‘KEVIN RUDD: I don’t have the evidence in front of me to say whether we can or whether we can’t. I’d just rather be straight up with you and say…
‘TONY JONES: Would you like to?
‘KEVIN RUDD: Of course. I mean – you mean would I like to?
‘TONY JONES: Would you like to raise the drinking age to 21? Of course.
‘KEVIN RUDD: I believe in something called evidence-based policy, which is if the evidence is there and it’s capable of being proven that it works, then we look at these things and make a decision. But you’re asking me for a personal impression. You don’t run policy that way, Tony.’
(http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s2811552.htm?show=transcript)
Tony Jones asked, “Would you consider it?” Note the “consider”.
Kevin Rudd answered by saying the evidence wasn’t in.
Tony Jones then said,
“Would you like to?’, as in “Would you like to consider it?”
Kevin Rudd answered “Of course” to that question, not to the one about whether he would like to raise the drinking age. This is clear from the comments he made both before and after the “Of course” about the need for evidence etc.
Of course, none of these particulars will stop the claim that he said he wanted to raise the drinking age, just as no recitation of ALP election policy has stopped the claims that he promised every kid a laptop.
I thought Mr Rudd performed terribly poorly for the start of the program but finished strongly. I could not help but wonder how Paul Keating would have handled it. The Liberal narrative of broken promises and a ‘do nothing’ government is biting now. That does not change my view that Labor will win the next two elections. It has broken promises, but it is not a “do nothing” government. But Labor insiders had better start lifting their game on delivery. One of the holes Labor has dug for itself is to involve itself in every area of policy, instead of saying, as in a true federal system, that an issue is the responsibility of the states and if people don’t like what is happening they can vote in a new state government to fix it.
Guess what argument this is trying to fire up?
Gary Bruce,
Yeah, it’s not far removed from being “pitiful”!
I’m out of here! The drongos’ are welcome to it!
Say no more. This is just BS. I’m sorry but this is trolling at its finest.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/kevin-foley-accuses-liberals-isobel-redmond-over-chantelois-issue/story-e6frea6u-1225828182255
Yes Adam, there’s nothing to see is there Adam, bob is making a mountain out of nothing isn’t he Adam.
It’s Labor staffers like yourself that breed the complacency capable of losing elections.
gary bruce
I would have through you would have called anyone who say Barnyard childish
Chris Curtis
I think what Rudd was saying was, I do not want to lose any votes, can I sit on the fence ….. I really want to sit on the fence ….. I really want to sit on the fence …… ok you have forced my hand, well kids are dying, the populist thing to say would be that we want no more kids death …… wait do I have a position on this, who cares, it is just about maximising votes
What? I’m being honest. I did only see the last 5 minutes of the presser, but from what I did see, Rudd couldn’t stop talking about Abbott. He was using his opponent’s weakness as his tool for re-election just like Howard did. The way I see it, a government doesn’t need to do this if their policies are sound and successful.
Where’s the proof of that?
Goodie, my first question time of the year.
Wow, this is what QT has been reduced too? This is just pathetic.
*to
“I’m like Howard therefore i’m good” doesn’t wash with me.
Pass. *switches off*
So you made this comment not knowing how long the presser had gone for? That’s either a foolhardy thing to do or you were being intentionally mischevious. I have better things to do. Ba
Well that explains why you are wrong.
Gary,
I have feel for these things. The opinion polls have already settled below the stratosphere. Don’t accept my word – just watch as more and more media space is devoted to the “broken promises” and “do nothing” themes.
According to Alexa.com, MySchool is now the 197th most popular Australian (.au) website:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/myschool.edu.au
I heard KK say that she wouldn’t be looking at changing the alcohol laws in NSW as she hadn’t seen anything to indicate that she should. A Young Libs guy say the same.
hyp?o?crite??/?h?p?kr?t/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
–noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
Hypocrite – Someone who pretends that they have problem with people making fun of other people’s name, when in fact they have no problems with other people’s name being redicule, only those from the Labor party – hypocrite
Oh Goody someone hit the Crikey server with a big hammer.
lol
probably Michael Atkinson latest attempt to shut down the net?
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/iron-man-tony-abbott-defends-remarks-about-housewives/story-e6frea6u-1225828307975
What Abbott is saying is
Feminists – go back into the kitchen and iron my shirt
In early hours this morn , Briefly posted this excelent objective post on Greens
Briefly
#591
“In any case, I am not taken by the Greens on anything much, including CC. As a person with a trivial carbon footprint, to me they just come across as sort of parasitic. Strong words, I know. But they get their support by shaving supporters from Labor. They are as curious a bunch as ever sat in the Parliament, I would say. They are quick to claim to have high purposes, and yet they have no better political morals than Wilson Tuckey. More strong words.
I would feel a lot better about them if they hammered the Liberals, along the lines of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.” But no, they make their political living by chipping away at Labor. It makes them my enemy’s casual ally, present at the battle in case there are bodies to rob. It is hard to respect the Greener-than-thous for just this reason.”
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/how-to-get-a-450000-job-no-ads-required–just-a-nice-word-from-the-minister-20100209-no66.html
Now I get the NBN
Firstly we will give a $450k job to someone, What can CONroy do? Kaiser would be ideal, 15 years of union experience and 10 as an ALP head quarter man, once the NBN hire him, they cannot complain that he have no real world experience anymore.
with $43 billion we can hire at least 3,000 labor hacks, everyone in this blog except the Greens and Liberals will get a job. They will all belong to the public sector union
More donation to the ALP, more votes for the ALP
now I know why we need the NBN
Oh dear, the Coalition is so short of “talent” that they cant find another decent looking female MP to sit along side the new member for Higgins. Put Bronnie there!!
And Julia Baby, stop playing with your lips.
ron
define objective?
dovif
Did Mike Kaiser ever work for a telecommunications company? – Do some research before you reply.
OT on the latest opinion polls (but then again so are about 95% of the comments here – that’s why it’s so interesting to read) but I just received an email from Twitter saying that Godwin Gretch had asked to join as a “friend”. Given that I don’t have a Twitter Account (wouldn’t bother even if I knew how to open one) but, as a matter of interest, has this happened to anyone else?
I’m now wondering what is so fascinating about me that Mr Gretch wants to be a follower or friend or whatever it’s called. I did work in the federal AG’s department but that was so long ago that I doubt if I’d have any interesting information for him! On the topic of Mr G., is the poor lad still in hospital or has he been transferred to Goulburn Gaol yet?
The story about NSW over taking S.A. in wine production was wrong. The ABS published the wrong figures:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/abs-to-apologise-for-wrong-wine-production-statistics/story-e6frea6u-1225828311173
HINT: It isn’t actually Godwin Grech, it is someone who impersonates him as a joke:
http://twitter.com/godwingrech
Jenkins should’ve just kicked Pyne.
Ruawake
Yeah I am sure his “industry experience” got him the job, not his tie to NSW and QLD Labor
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/11/19/mike-kaiser-sails-away-with-450k-as-blighs-office-implodes/
Kaiser is “to promote a company that generates no revenue, has no customers and provides no services to anybody”.
“The latest ructions come as the $43 billion NBN begins to resemble an increasingly costly white elephant, with AAPT chief Paul Broad hammering the project yesterday as “absolute rubbish”. With basic line rental set to skyrocket, and high-speed internet hurtling towards wireless and satellite services, Kaiser’s millions could end up being syphoned deep into the project’s under-utilised intertubes for decades to come.”
Glad you admit it – bet you don’t have a clue about it though.
no I am pretty sure he worked for Labor Qld, ran their disastrous election campaign, so the ALP decided they have to move him somewhere without sacking him.
So the boardband came up ….
Wow,
I just watched question time…. and saw Kate Ellis walk the 10 metres to the despatch box like a model down a catwalk….
I can’t remember what she said, but I’ll probably agree with it.
Dingbat
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Permalink
ron
‘define objective?”
obvous you agree with Briefly’s objective post in #843 , othrwise you’d be unobjective
854
Bet you wish your mob could run such a disastrous election campaign.
Your mob is a disaster in opposition which is always a guarantee of a long time in the wilderness.
Yeah, really disastrous. The Government only won a fifth term.
Tom Hawkins and showson
Have you look at the opinion polls in Qld lately
On the one hand, his last 2 jobs are with Qld and NSW Labor … the 2 most despised government by a wide margin in Australia, SA is the 3rd most
THen again I have to look at Labor’s 2009 re-election campaigns
WA – Disastrous
NT – Horrendous
Qld was actually quite good
Thanks ShowsOn. I just trashed it anyway – was no way I was going to open it!
From the Essential Report Twitter Page:
aka get it before Bilbowe can post it
So Chris the ETS mightn’t have anything to do with it or a honeymoon for Abbott?
I have just watched the parliament. The government are honing their attack on Abbott and Barnaby. “Risk” is going to be a word we will hear a lot off. Also people in glass houses can’t afford to throw stones. Broken promises have applied to both sides and both sides will be doing a lot of reminding.
859
Are you a goose?
You are now talking about post election polling – what’s that got to do with your claim of a disastrous election campaign?
Speaking of the Qld “Rope a Dope” election campaign. Is Rudd doing the same with Abbott.
Come on show me what you’ve got – sucker.
lol, it’s in its early stages you goose
What happened to Essential Research yesterday?
Ditto.
Tom Hawkins
It has to do with the way they were elected, which made NSW unelectable for the ALP for a few elections, I suspect the same will happen in QLD
Dario
Don’t blame me, blame Andrew Cook in the crickey link
Windies have crashed again 5/62 in adeelaide
868
Now I know you are a goose. You can’t back up your claim in any credible way.
dovif
When was the last time the L-NP won a state general election in Qld?
From your query to me you ar having problams working out what is unobjective in this post i thought it was not
pray tell
Briefly
#591
“In any case, I am not taken by the Greens on anything much, including CC. As a person with a trivial carbon footprint, to me they just come across as sort of parasitic. Strong words, I know. But they get their support by shaving supporters from Labor. They are as curious a bunch as ever sat in the Parliament, I would say. They are quick to claim to have high purposes, and yet they have no better political morals than Wilson Tuckey. More strong words.
I would feel a lot better about them if they hammered the Liberals, along the lines of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.” But no, they make their political living by chipping away at Labor. It makes them my enemy’s casual ally, present at the battle in case there are bodies to rob. It is hard to respect the Greener-than-thous for just this reason.”
Dingbat
Don’t know, but I will say the next one in Qld is 2012 … I am happy to accept bets
Tom Hawkins, read the crikey links, Qld Labor wanted him out of his position long before he accepted the job. His last 2 jobs are in Qld and NSW Labor, the 2 most unpopular government headed for landslide losses …. they might just all be coincidence …. they might not
dovif
It was 1989.
dovif
A clue, what was Mike Kaiser’s job before he worked for Iemma?
Long Time Lurker signing off.
The standard of banter here has degenerated so much in 2 years. It shows how brave people can be with pompous insults with the benefit of anonymity.
Liked your posts Ron – even though they were difficult to read on my phone.
Ruawake, 876: Nah, that was when Goss cameg in. Depending on what you call 1995′s result, it’s be either then (Nats and Libs, plus an independent) or 1986 (Nats by themselves I think, under the Bjelkemander).
Sorry 1986.
Bird
Thats why I said General Election.
Wayne Goss and the ALP won in 1989.
I think the last time the LNP won in Qld was 1986!
Can’t say I blame him/her!
1892CFC,
Sad you’re leaving. But, your other basket case hobby, Collingwood, will need all the support you can provide.
http://sosnews.org/pdf/mike-kaiser.pdf
sorry all I found out about mike kaiser
It definitely make him a good Labor man
And worthy of endorsement by Richardson and CONroy
GG,
Looking forward to coming 4th again
Now here’s an interesting list… the years a Lib or Nat govt last won in any state or territory in Australia (if the most recent was a minority govt, the most recent majority for them is in brackets). Surprisingly, they’re almost all minorities… the ones in SA, Tas and NSW all caused by a first term govt having a very tight re-election after massively thumping Labor.
WA: 2008 (1996)
SA: 1997 (1993)
NT: 1997
Vic: 1996
Tas: 1996 (1992)
Qld: 1995 (1988)
ACT: 1995 (never)
NSW: 1991 (1988)
Ever get the feeling that the person Abbott is trying to convince is himself?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opposition-leader-tony-abbott-channels-barack-obama-telling-party-room-yes-we-can-win-the-next-election/comments-e6frf7jo-1225828314599
1892cfc,
Collingwood have to be favourites for the first sacked coach of the year. The replacement has already been appointed.
892CFC
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 3:56 pm | Permalink
“Long Time Lurker signing off.
The standard of banter here has degenerated so much in 2 years. It shows how brave people can be with pompous insults with the benefit of anonymity.
Liked your posts Ron – even though they were difficult to read on my phone.”
mate , if you hav time in future , give us a go here on PB more objective posters th better , will reduce th ….
GG
you a changed man , since th Judster came to town
Ed Killesteyn (head of AEC) is now at Senate estimates, the video feed is here.
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/asx2/hms10v_100K.asx
It doesnt get pointier than this.
Hi all!
I haven’t been in here much lately, because sadly the tone of this board has descended into name calling and personal abuse……and Bob is one of the worst offenders.
Surely we can rise above this sort of crap?
The people on Poll Bludger generally are an intelligent, well informed bunch!
not on APAC , cnnt get , anyone got update on AEC bit questoning
Abbott has been getting a free ride from the media, I think that accounts for the narrowing of Labor’s poll lead. And Rudd too was virtually absent for just about all of January.
“Barnyard” is the gift that just keeps on giving for the Government – it’s almost unfair to put such a lightweight hick up against Tanner.
poss
its the immigration bloke not the aec bloke
Ah, ha! I’m listening to Rudd’s demolition of the Opposition’s implied accusations re Mike Kaiser’s appointment to NBN Co. Now I know why Mike Kaiser’s name was brought up today by antiRudd hacks’ regurgitating today’s Oppo talking points!
Ooh! All today’s surprised Shock!
Horror!
But, hey, earlier today I linked, in my comment re Mike Kaiser, a Brisbane Times article of (wait for it) November 14, 2009! which states:
Now, according to my google search, Thursday, 26 November 2009 was Federal Parliament’s last 2009 sitting day; so Mike Kaiser’s appointment had been announced in the media 12 days before the Parliament rose for Christmas recess (though it did go into extra days on the CPRS); but the Coalition’s taken until 9 February 2010 to discover it!
DOH!
In addition, as noted by dovif the appointment was even announced by Crikey on 19 November 2009 a week before the last scheduled sitting day!
Know what I’ve enjoyed most about this week’s QT? The Oh, sheeeee…., we’ve stuffed up again! look on Abbott’s face!
One thing hasn’t changed about Her Majesty’s Opposition: Christopher Pyne is still an irritating dropkick!
Sorry Gus, though it was the right link,
Go here:
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/
It’s the Senate Standing Legislation Committee: Finance & Public Administration
And did you see the cameras on Turnball in QT today? He didn’t look happy.
If I was Rudd & Co, I’d be making Malcopops a serious offer to join the government as the Independent member for Wentworth – think of all the extra infastructure money that’d get spent in Bondi.
Is anyone else watching Chris Bowen answering Smith’s MPI. He’s a really good pollie. Kev needs him out there selling the good things they’ve done.
At last he brought up the Howard’s advertising spend. Labor has to keep telling us that they haven’t wasted money on advertising and that’s the reason people haven’t heard all the good things that have been done and are being done. Labor has done a poor job of selling itself. Howard never stopped doing it.
Laura Tingle on Agenda said the Oppn is verballing Labor and how true that is. They deserve to be called on it by the MSM.
Evans14 – did you get Docking & his offsider this morning. Interesting contrast there but Docking couldn’t even praise Labor for its determination to help education even when a teacher (skilled) explained what is now happening. Typical!!
Yes, they knew about it last year but the exact details of the appointment didn’t come out until Estimates yesterday.
In any case, when the Opposition learned about the appointment is completely irrelevant to whether the appointment is/was appropriate. I don’t think it was at all.
Good idea Evan14. I think Malcolm should be an independent – how on earth does he put up with the rubbish Abbott is serving up. Honest Abbott and honest Joyce – how loosely they throw that word around about themselves when they really are he opposite.
Unfortunately, at the moment time is being wasted asking seemingly irrelevant questions on ALP preselections. Given ALP preselections are not funded out of public money I don’t see how it’s relevant.
BH: I’m avoiding commercial AM radio – it’s wall to wall “Rudd is horrible, Abbott is the new Messiah”. For instance, turn on 2GB today, and Ray Hadley is having a cosy little chat with Abbott. After that you’ve got the supposedly reformed sexual predator Chris Smith and then Jason Morrison, Alan Jones’s “love child”….and that’s before you get to nights and the truly wacky Brian Whiltshire & his conspiracy theory nonsense.
But this is the audience that the Mad Monk is pitching his campaign to.
I think the question that had to be asked is. Is it appropriate to appoint someone to a post in a $40 billion company without the role being advertised, taking into account the person’s past
a. had to quit parliament over vote rigging
b. Wayne Gross called him “Scum! Scum! Scum!)
c. should have been possecuted and was only not should have been prosecuted and was only not prosecuted because of the statute of limitation
That is something that might one day bite Labor back, I think it is too risky an appointment. They should at least do a thorough headhunting job and have someone conclude he was the best candidate
What’s more embarrassing if you’re Joe Hockey?
Appearing on national television in a tutu, OR being usurped in the economic area by an ignorant hick from the back blocks of rural QLD?
Is Sloppy Joe even in control of the Coalition’s economic policy? You have to wonder.
scorpio #882
After Indep Liz Cunningham (Gladstone) agreed to support them, the Nat-Lib were in gov in Qld 12/02/1996 to 26 June 1998, following the scandalous Mundingburra by-election:
during which time
This close relationship evoked many memories of the Bjelke-Petersen era, where relations between the executive and the police service were frequently close.</blockquote.
Itep #902.
Does kaiser have any relevant qualifications, training or experience for this role?
What qualifications does Barnaby Joyce have to be the alternative Finance Minister?
He once did the books for the farm?
Joe’s gone underground. He obviously feels no loyalty to the Minchin-Abbott-Joyce insanity (no wonder- remember how they treated him?), and hopes to be alive and kicking when they are politically interred.
Evan 14 – big difference between a Minster and a job at the NBN.
I actually don’t know enough about kaiser…I’m ready to beleive COnroy has fouled his own nest and turned the NBN into a bunch of quangos, but I thought I’d check first.
If kaiser is actually suited to the role, then I don’t have a problem with his appointment. Otherwise…….
And don’t forget the tax returns! I’d be going back over mine if I was one of his clients. It’s a problem if an Accountant can’t read figures showing that Australia has lost $170+bill in tax receipts but, even so, the debt is still totally manageable.
Someone should ask what happened to all the tax receipts over the last few years of the Govt. he was part of. Why didn’t they leave a bigger surplus for a rainy day.? Lousy management I’d say.
dovif
I think Mike Kaiser is a worthy successor to the Sol Trujillo school of communications executives that now seems to enjoy bipartisan support in Federal politics. Both were politically connected (Trujillo was active in republican politics in the USA)
http://www.hispanictips.com/2008/01/08/mccain-amigos-high-places-trujillo/
That may be a bit unfair to Trujillo though – he had a record in commincations management prior to Telstra. To my knowledge Kaiser, despite originally training as an electrical engineer, has never worked as an engineer in any industry.
I find it amazing how much Kaiser has been protected over his career. He was heavily involved in the disastrous election campaign that cost Labor power in Qld in the mid 90s (I think he was State secretary). He has had a string of well paid political positions in the ALP or state governments since being forced to resign from parliament. He must have powerful friends …
ltep #902
Certain appointments are in the PM’s gift, usually ones involving lobbying / liaising on the government’s behalf. Every PM makes such appointments. Howard did, Menzies did, Curtin did … as did every PM in between. Howard, eg, appointed Gareth Evans to his UN job without advertising it etc etc
In today’s QT, Rudd listed a number of positions he’d filled in like manner … with Downer, Nelson, Costello & other former Coalition members. No Opposition screams and fake Shock! Horror! about them, were there?
Oh the hypocrisy! The hypocrisy!
Kaiser had a similar job with Hutchison Telecoms.
Ozpol Tragic
There is 2 large difference,
1. all those are retired federal politicians who will still be working for the government, with a budget set by the government. NBN is a large public company that will be privatised, with a business model
2. None of those had to quit their parliament in disgrace, and who only escaped the law, because of the statute of limitation
OZpol tragic…..so you don’t see any difference between diplomatic appointments and roles at the NBN?
Maybe its been so long since Australia publicly owned something NBN that I need to make some adjustments, but it seems to me that diplomatic and econimic appointments like those quoted by Rudd today, and a role in NBN (with its high- tech industry and partnership with private companies) is a different type of appointment
OzPol Tragic @ 908,
Well aware ot that OzPol, my comment was in response to this question, ie a “general Election” not losing government because of the Mundingburra by-election:
Today during QT, Combet answered a question and as part of his answer he mentioned that the cost of carbon under the Liberals plan would be something like $70 a Ton (or Tonne) while the cost under Labor’s ETS was something less than $20 a ton (or tonne). It was mentioned that this comes from Bloomberg
Now I was not paying attention and therefore I am unsure of these details.
Has anyone got a link to this report or have I just messed it up?
Nikki Savva demonstrating she is an equal opportunity abuser of all male politicians.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2814494.htm
Windies all out 170 !
PB has been reduced from a forum to discuss Political Polls and related matters to a chat site focused on character assassination and smear of people who are not or who are no longer politicians!
The manner in which certain commenters post personal attacks, baiting and just plain outright trolling, is absolutely disgusting!
It’s way past time for people to wake up to themselves and pick their game up otherwise one of the finest political discussion sites on the net will lose the few remaining decent posters and most of its readership.
Ratsars
The cost per ton of CO2 being saved is probably $70 under Abbott’s scheme, as he’s spending heaps to save bugger all but the cost of actual CO2 is $0. He has admitted as much.
921 – Greensborough Growler
The Drum is very dull reading indeed.
A non-Labor MP in a Labor cabinet? What do you think this is? 1904?
Scorpio @ 923:
Couldn’t agree more, Scorp. Lately, it’s “round up the usual suspects” for another tranche of head-kicking and cheap point-scoring. One gets the feeling that if one isn’t a member of the inner clique – no more than half a dozen tragics who spend all their lives here – then one had better just scarper. Classic chat room mafia tactics.
Old grudges never die. They just go on, and on, and on, at PB.
I heard that too, Ratsars, and wondered why they didn’t make more mention of it. ($70 tonne, i.e.)
“If I was Rudd & Co, I’d be making Malcopops a serious offer to join the government as the Independent member for Wentworth”
I heard this question put to Tanner on ABC radio in Melbourne today…his answer made reference to the Ute-gate email accusations and concluded that is wasn’t going to happen
Scorpio @ 923
I agree – this used to be a left leaning forum on the polls without the personal insults.
(I guess I’m starting to Dame Nellie Melba)
SA 2010?
I think Combet said the Bloomberg stuff had “just been released”. Maybe some media outlet will inform us?
Why waste a good election campaign now?
It happens somewhat in state parliaments, but never federally.
I know what you mean. I called a poster a goose earlier today so I am not going to try and claim innocence in this area. What has shocked me isn’t so much the tit for tat name calling (disappointing though that is page after page) but the incredibly nasty racist rants that come from basically one source (TTH) which are seeming allow to go unchallenged by the moderator. It’s also way past time that a far stronger moderation hand was on show. If that’s too much for one individual to manage (and I expect it is) then one or two additional moderators should be ‘employed’. A call for expressions of interest should be made.
I’m sure that there are some who would not join in discussion here (therefore we haven’t heard from them so far) as they don’t care to swim in polluted waters.
Politics in Australia has descended into farce – name calling is rife. The Speaker (moderater) of the Reps has given up booting people.
Why should pollybludger be any different?
The Media is just as bad, no discussion of issues, just patting each other on the back. The crud idea of journos interviewing commentators is puke making.
Guess what Sky News response to todays Airport Security announcements was? Airport queues to get longer – sheesh.
Pollybludger reflects this dross – except when an election is actually happening.
Evan14, there is limit to the intelligence of them humans. dont worry, i will top it up and rise above them
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/NMMP_dolphin_with_locator.jpeg
Nobody is here to request that posters “withdraw” and apologise for offensive comments as is the case in Parliament.
And “why” can’t people on PB show a bit of ethics and decorum and a bit of decency in what they post like they used to?
Just a question!
If regular readers and posters here haven’t noticed a drop in standards here, then they haven’t been paying much attention!
Hmm, more trouble in the NT Parliament.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/09/2814733.htm?section=justin
Here I was about to join back in and everyone’s leaving.
Won’t bother now. Unless someone can post some s#xy pics of Greg Combet.
marktwain
A hard task – this is as close as he gets.
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/08/05/greg_combet_wideweb__430x286,0.jpg
That would only leave the territory to TTH and bob1234 and the dinosaurs would have won.
Well the rot all goes back to bob’s totally unacceptable conduct over an extended period.
He was occasionally whipped with a wet lettuce leaf and after being briefly *banned* came back and started up again just where he left off. His hubris extended to bragging about getting away such nonsense.
I think others have just progressively started going the same way – after all bob got away with heaps and is still here ??
Phwaor. Might have to hang around now. Thanks ru
There’s got to be a growing concern within Liberal ranks if a rusted-on, long term supporter like Niki Savva feels compelled to write something like this.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2814494.htm
dovif #917
This might apply to the ones I named; but if you go back through PM (& Premiers’) similar appointments, you’ll find your assertions are not correct. Jobs for the boys, inc those who’ve been “Tapped on the shoulder” is by no means new or confined to a single party – or, for that matter, large (or small) English-speaking democracy.
The prob with being a hack is that one has to develop highly selective memory.
MT, there’s plenty available of Tony Abbott in his budgie smugglers and wearing his “bikie” outfit!
marktwain,
Here’s one! Mind you, it might just be who he’s sitting next to…
http://images.smh.com.au/2009/11/17/866341/combetcrop-420×0.jpg
PS: BTW, since when has the Liberal Party regarded “branch stacking” as a heinous crime? Qld Libs were doing it for a long time after the Kaiser affair – the last case only three or so years ago. It’s still a Lib issue in other states.
Ooh, I’m having conniptions. Or something.
I wonder what the lady with Combet in this pic thinks of Abbott?
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/22/svFRONT.jpg
Its Karen Banton.
Finally, Abbott has found his soul mate:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_14361335
Crap, crapo, crappy ……. snake, snako, snakey ….. Oil aint Oil.
For anyone suffering climate change sceptics among family, friends, occasional dinner party companions, or among fellow train travellers on the way to work, this site is terrific for the presentation and depth of material covered. It has an overview of all the sceptics’ claims, together with a succint rebuttal from the science. Click on the brief answer and get an in depth scientific answer. An excellent resource those of us in Garnaut’s Army, or if you like, the “450 Club”.
There are also articles on the latest CC issues on the home page.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
The Finns,
Forty minute speech?
How big are her hands?
I think it’s a shame that this board has degenerated into a forum where you sometimes don’t feel comfortable posting/participating in the discussions.
Sorry William, I know you do a fantastic job of moderating, it’s just that a few bad apples like Bob spoil it for everyone else.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth!
Did you all notice how cocky Abbott and the right wing idiots are…they think they’ve already won the next election.
That sort of stuff doesn’t play well with the Australian public.
As I said “Rope a Dope”. Abbott is so predictable.
evan14,
I know how you feel, Evan. Often when I see an issue brought up where I’d like to contribute to, or an issue that I have a different opinion on, I steer well clear, to avoid getting personally attacked or belittled for that opinion.
As for responding to baiting or trolling, that is a recipe for falling into the sometimes cleverly set trap/sometimes not, and satisfying the motives of that poster which are generally aligned to a particular partisan purpose or just plain self satisfaction of getting “one up on” some poor beggar.
You can just hear Barnaby saying that.
957 – I wonder what polls they are looking at. All the ones I’ve seen have gone from obliteration to a thrashing and at best (for them) a large defeat. Boy, are they easily satisfied.
The problem for them is that there side show act has a shelf life and it aint long.
And if anyone responds with “harden up you week basket”, you can go and get royally stuffed!
Weak!
Scorps
Ii was just going to suggest everyone have a biscuit
If week take this Neilson poll, labor’s primary vote is exactly the same as it was in Nov, so how is it showing a swing to the Libs?
Could it be that Fundies First and ON voters now feel safe to return to the Lib fold?
Please don’t even attempt to interpret polls if you’re silly enough to think in gross swings rather than net swings.
Thankyou
I think it stems from an ironclad assumption that appearances trump substance; indeed, appearances are all that matter (if one can be confident of friendly treatment from the Fourth Estate).
Abbott will be unable to shake the intoxication of 1995-1996 from his memory, and consciously or not, will see that as the template.
His problem with Howard’s method is that, twisted views notwithstanding, Abbott just cannot lie as well as Howard. He wants to shout his real views from the treetops.
I was talking about primary votes being the same – the swing is implied by gooses in the media – and you.
There is no doubt that Abbott has regained the hard core Liberal vote. That was easy. The hard part is attracting the swinging voters. A strong Green vote will just mean a strong preference to Labor IMHO. I really can’t see any serious Green voter preferencing the Libs.
I’m with Evan14 and the rather unfortunate Collingwood supporter (big statement from a Rabbitoh – 1971, still waiting but primed for perfection in ’10)
This site has gone alarmingly downhill over the past six months. Most of the blame can be attributed to Bob1234, who seems to sink to new depths of inanity every time I look. If I didn’t know any better, and I don’t, I’d say his objective is to drive this site to irrelevance. On the other side of the coin, we have the boring insularity of the Amigos. Whatever that term means. And of course there is the often misunderstood Ron, with his heiroglyphic posts that are apparently the font of all wisdom. Ron, can you do us all a favour and type your posts into a text editor, run spell check and then copy/paste? It will take you all of twenty seconds, and then we will all be enlightened. And the less said about TruthHurts the better. This one encapsulates everything bad about Australia. Wall to wall hate. If it wasn’t a physical impossibility, I would say TTH could almost be a descendant of J.Edgar Hoover with the hate tracts he/she is capable of.
Of course, William is the ultimate gate-keeper and if he wants to permit never ending ETS/CPRS flame wars, let alone provide a 24/7 child minding facility for the likes of Peter Young then so be it. But this place was lot better when it was an electoral site. Come back, Glen! Please! And bring GP with you…
Gary, Rua and Evan,
This comment here is a classic example of Lib denial and optimism!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/courtiers-still-marvel-at-emperors-new-clothes/comments-e6frg6zo-1225828034972
It is in response to Malcolm Colless’ latest diatribe where he pumps up the RWDB troops with statements like this!
You noticed that there was a few “cockies” around the place eh?
His body language in Parl is apalling
The BH said it was like watching a teenager showing off to his mates.
There is definitely a plan to milk the “blokey image”
What happened to Essential Research this week?
See Possum – not much
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/02/08/essential-report-myschool-and-climate-change/
Diogenes @ # 924.
The cost per ton of CO2 being saved is probably $70 under Abbott’s scheme, as he’s spending heaps to save bugger all but the cost of actual CO2 is $0. He has admitted as much.
Thanks for reply to my query. I was hoping that someone had better research skills than I did and that they had found some link to the reference document at “Bloombergs.
Because I have no verification it is a useless bit of information. Maybe Hansard tomorrow morning will help?
BH @ # 928
I heard that too, Ratsars, and wondered why they didn’t make more mention of it. ($70 tonne, i.e.)
Playing it back in my mind afterwards I think that Combet said that the report was released just before QT.
This might mean that it is not online as yet?
Thanks for your reply.
Ruawake @ # 932
I think Combet said the Bloomberg stuff had “just been released”. Maybe some media outlet will inform us?
Thanks for confirming that.
975 – Thanks ru.
Gusface,
I bet Abbott was dirty when Rudd got sprung over “Scores” and he wouldn’t have been too pleased about Kevvie’s “ute”!
scorpio@978
Could this be The Libs Campaign Jingle ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpr1lKHjP8
Hey, William,
There’s enough stuff here that you could pinch off George M, to start another thread.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/meganomics/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_mortgage_belt_or_bust/
More following. A good read and food for thought. Far better than sniping at others, by having a good gander at this.
BZZZT Wrong.
According to the latest newspoll they are 0.5% away from victory.
Gary (829 at 2.00pm),
I was going to add more straight after my other post (836 at 2.05pm), but for some reason the Poll Bludger site became inaccessible to me. It seems accessible now.
There is a virus doing the rounds of the blogs, posted in ever-growing form by various screen names, listing what it says are government failures. It does not make a detailed case, but to answer it requires a detailed case, which would take hundred of hours to assemble and then would be thousands of words and therefore not posted. That is the genius of this form of attack: just repeat the same thing over and over again, in the way that the regular idiotorials in The Australian have created a myth of big-spending teacher-loving union-controlled state governments squandering the rivers of gold of the GST, and the repetition creates its own truth. Now, only some claims have to be true for the others to be believed. Here is the most recent example I could lay my hands on:
‘He has done heaps:
‘1. 2020 – 1,000 B&B; minds, $2+m = 9 useable ideas. ?2. Save the whales – FAIL ?3. Fight Inflation Genie – Oops GFC ?4. Taxes up (Gas, Diesel, Transport, Alco pops) – inflationary ?5. Fuelwatch – cost $21 million – FAIL ?6. Grocery Watch/Choice – June, 2009 abandoned $13 million election promise – FAIL ?7. Arresting Iranian leaders – Stunt ?8. Bank Guarantee – still over 200,000 bank accounts frozen from September 2008 – $25B of savings locked up for possibly 4 years. ?9. Laptops ?10. National Broadband Network (from $4b, to $7b to $43 billion) – Experts are now saying it will cost in the region of $20,000 PER CONNECTION ?11. Cash Splash 1 – borrowed ?12. Cash Splash 2 – also borrowed = $42 billion ?13. Work Choices /Fair work – Will cost jobs Awards Back flips – special dispensation for Tourism/Food industry. Horticultural Industry warning new awards will put farmers out of business, eg, casual pickers weekend rates. – No response from Gillard yet. ?14. Immigration/Refugees/Asylum Seekers how many boats so far? Need I even mention the Oceanic Viking? ?15. Defence – cut expenditure & increase weaponry? ?16. Homeland Security Department – “a non-core promise” broken Nov 28, 2007 ?17. The buck stops with me – so where are you? ?18. Securing water on the Murray/Darling ?19. IVF Program – cuts – the caring ALP. ?20. Medicare/Private Health – rebate not to be touched – key election promise – outright lie ?21. Dental Scheme – gone – the caring ALP ?22. Cataract Surgery – costs doubled – the caring ALP ?23. Superannuation – the government needs it more than you. ?24. Home Savers Grant – a fizzer, not enough people saving ?25. First home Owners grant – increased, not aimed to generate building, inflating house prices ?26. One Stop Super Childcare Centres ?27. GP Super Clinics – $275 million borrowed – 1 open Palmerston NT, ALP stronghold – FAIL, 3 approved SA – Noarlunga, Playford North, Modbury , all ALP safe seats ?28. No compulsory University Union Fees – an outright lie voted down ?29. Worker Share Options, June 2009 – on, off, on, off, on like a light switch – blunder ?30. Carbon emissions reduction – LPG conversion subsidies being phased out l – June 2009 ?31. Carbon Emissions reduction Part 2 – Household Solar Rebate axed 9/6 ?32. Schools Stimulus/? Infrastructure Program – Subject to AG inquiry. ?33. Ruddbank ?34. Federal takeover of hospitals by mid 2009 if no improvement. – EPIC FAIL ?35. Reduce consultancies by $112 million = increase to $800 million (6354 consultancies) ?36. Govt will pay small business invoices on time = takes a lot longer ?37. No nuclear Waste Dump NT – election promise – broken June 2008 ?38. $15 million to rural research & development corporations – election promise – broken May 2008. ?39. A – E reporting on childcare standards & universal pre-school for 4 year olds – election promise – broken June 2009 ?40. ALP Uranium Policy/stance – in tatters. Garrett approves uranium mine. ?41. Diplomacy – Japan – biggest customer – FAIL. India – Uranium contract – FAIL . USA – conversations (real/imaginary) released to media. China, May 2009 – “difficult to deal with” Australia led Asia Pacific Body – thud. ?42. Boost funding for aboriginal Legal Aid – lie – actuality = cuts to funding in first budget. ?43. Scale back Intervention – ignored review recommendations. ?44. Homes /renovations for indigenous – not one shovel lifted to date ?45. Digital TV –Conroy, 2008, slash $22m from costs of changeover, figures make no sense – original estimate $16m now to cost $66m ?46. Cheaper Better Childcare – Govt regulations will see Childcare costs going up by about $1500pa on July 1, 2010 ?47. SORRY! Feb 8, 08. K Rudd ?“We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.” ?Aug 22, 09 The Australian ?“WELFARE workers have swooped on the opal mining town of Lightning Ridge in northwest NSW, removing more than 40 Aboriginal children from decrepit homes in shanty towns…….. ?Aboriginal women, stunned by the removals, say it amounts to a “modern-day Stolen Generation”, but the most recent statistics on child removals show Aboriginal children are being taken from their parents in numbers much greater than the Stolen Generations.” ?48. Skills Program, Sept 2009, The Australian – “Kevin Rudd’s $2bn skills plan in disarray” ?49. More affordable Housing – October 2009 – prices forecast to go up 20% ?50. Cheaper Books for Australians – back flip to protectionist policies ?51. ETS, Versions 1&2;–FAIL senate. ?52. 2007 Rudd promises a new era in cooperation between Federal Government & States. 2009 Rudd loses patience with NSW ALP, Qld Traveston dam. ?53. Copenhagen conference – EPIC FAIL – CLASSIC COMEDY ?54. “Ian McPhedran July 26, 2009 11:00pm ?WHEN it comes to chalking up VIP jet bills, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Governor-General Quentin Bryce leave their predecessors in a $5.8 million wake. ?During the six months from June to December last year, the PM Kevin Rudd and Governor-General Quentin Bryce team hit a record of $17.2 million in taxpayer-funded VIP flights – which equals $716,000-a-week.” – Kevin Rudd – Our “Stay at home prime minister” ?55. Relaxed restrictions on foreign ownership elevate house prices. ?56. FOI review/results. – Open and transparent government promised 2007 by 2009 promise = increased FOI requests and increased rejections of same = markedly increased secretive Government. ?57. Blunder – superannuation cuts for ADF personnel. Combet claims difficulty in straitened times = tough luck. ?58. “Obscene” homelessness numbers = War on Homelessness = increased Homeless numbers for 2010. ?59. Big Australia – “I actually believe in a big Australia I make no apology for that. I actually think it’s good news that our population is growing” Rudd 2009. “You asked specifically whether this is my target or not. I don’t have a view on that, to be quite honest.” Rudd on the 730 report 28/1/2010 ?60. 2010 – 8 boats & 630 IMAs as at 2/2/2010.
‘Heaps of FAILS that is….
‘D’oh of Brisbane (Reply)
Wed 03 Feb 10 (01:13pm)’
(http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/what_on_earth_has_rudd_actually_done/)
When Abbott was elevated to the leadership I wrote a rather scathing email to his office, pointing out a few difficulties I had with him and his style of politicking. The response arrived today (how many weeks has that been?) – complete with a pretty picture of him hard at work at his desk, apparently in earnest conversation on the phone.
“Thank you for taking the time to email me upon my recent election as Leader of the Opposition.
I have been overwhelmed by the tens of thousands of letters, calls and emails my office has received. I feel humbled and daunted by what’s ahead but I also feel proud and exhilarated at the prospect of leading the Coalition into the next election.
The job of the Opposition I lead is to be an alternative, not an echo. I want us to be a fair dinkum opposition determined to scrutinise the government and to hold it to account. I believe Australians expect governments to be upfront with them, not promising the world and failing to deliver.”
Needless to say not one of the points I raised was even mentioned but I suppose I should feel myself lucky getting a response at all – after all there were tens of thousands of others who wrote to him.
Contrast this with a post I sent to Malcolm Turnbull around the time of the leadership squabbles – I got an immediate response from him acknowledging that we seemingly did not see eye to eye on several matters but at least he respected my point of view and not the anodyne crap in the post rom Abbott above. A form letter if ever I saw one! And he did say “fair dinkum”. Do Aussies really still say that or has it gone the way of “Begorrah” and “Top of the mornin’” for the Irish and “Och Aye, the Noo” for the Scots?
For my sins I live on the Gold Coast but I don’t hear “fair dinkum” much at all, except when listening to sports commentators on TV when I’m locked in a padded cell and can’t get out!
I remember reports during his early days as a Minister that the Labor side used to go off in gales of mirth during Abbott’s speeches, because he used to emphasise key points with a pelvic thrust.
What an insult!!!!
You have to hand it to the efffing ABC Chris Ullman (?). Using Sam Cooke’s A Change Is Gonna Come to describe Abbott. Go and get ffff Chris.
I’m with Roy Orbison @ 970 and others who deplore the tit for tat name calling and puerile taunts that have predominated in large chunks of what is posted here over recent months. I’d be very sorry to see PB become an echo chamber for this sort of stuff rather than any contribution to understanding and analysis of what is happening politically.
I don’t get a lot of time to check in with PB and nowadays find I scroll past a lot of name calling tit for tat rubbish, to try and find someone saying something sensible, then the whole thread goes feral again, and I conclude why bother trying to join a conversation, when it’s no longer a conversation.
Some folk may also notice other people who used to regularly post here, such as Boerwar, haven’t been doing so. If you’re around, BW, I hope you\re O.K.
Jobs for Mates
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/george-brandis-says-mike-kaiser-was-appointed-to-nbn-role-under-a-corrupted-process/story-e6frgczf-1225828226765
Gee it certainly Pay$ to be mates with Kev.
Maybe he can get his golf buddy to run Australia’s economy next.
Roy Orbison @ 970,
(I am now definitely Dame Nellie Melbaing)
I agree with a lot of your post – although I disagree about Ron and the amigos – (inscrutable as some of the posts seem to be). The main problem seems to be that the primary ojective of a lot of the bloggers here seems to be annoying other bloggers.
(Favourite RO – “Just Running Scared”)
(PS “Unfortunate”? Collingwood supporter? Do you know something I don’t?)
HSO, agreed. There are only two or three that are the cornerstones of this behaviour. If one does not engage them then they wither and self destruct from lack of attention as they become yet more extreme.
Roy Orbison, I was all right for a while, I could smile for a while …….. But I saw you last night, you held my hand so tight ……… As you stopped to say “Hello” . Aww you wished me well, you couldn’t tell …. That I’d been cry-i-i-i-ng over you, cry-i-i-i-ng over you
Thanks, scarpat, and Finns, you are obviously a funny and intelligent bod, but you amigos can be difficult to get past if I, for instance, want to have a conversation with another poster. Srsly, a person winds up cross eyed and gorn.
The PB spectrum runs from the hate-ins of bob1234 and TTH to the love-ins of the Amigos, from the bile to the saccharine. Interesting conversations can be found in-between.
HSO
My friend who works in ICU has said that they haven’t had the patients with mental illnesses coming in with hyperthermia. I’m not involved with mental health so I don’t know if there has been a specific program targetting their vulnerability but it’s a great result.
How has your campaign gone in Vic (and did we steal it?%!)
Just one other thought before life intrudes again. We’re going into election year writ large, and yum yum for those of us who really, reeeeelly like our politics raw. Would it be too much to ask that if people want to post here, they voluntarily refrained from calling anyone names, the you said, no I didn’t/prove it interchanges, you reply once to clarify something and do not escalate beyond that.
Would that be doable, William?
Self moderation is the key. Before one posts one should consider whether what they’re posting adds value. If all your post is aimed at doing is insulting/goading someone it’s likely no one else is likely to be interested.
Now having said that I should go back and edit this post out of existence.
Diog, we have been targetting people in Victoria, particularly those with metabolic syndrome, but also all of those on atypicals. We haven’t had any admissions to ICU in our catchment area, but am not aware of stats across the state. If SA has used our campaign, I don’t know, but we tend not to be precious about sharing stuff we think might be of use to others .
BZZZT wrong. A 1.2% swing to the Liberals still is a win to Labor:
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/calculator/?swing=national&national=-1.2&nsw=0&vic=0&qld=0&wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1
Will this blog go the same way as poor bryan palmers blog? Unfortunatley it seems so and i cannot understand why unless crickey wants the controversy for some reason. William is quiet on the matter so who knows.
PS “Unfortunate”? Collingwood supporter? Do you know something I don’t?
Yes, you are unfortunate. One premiership in 50 years. Despite overwhelming support and a seemingly endless supply of finance. However, it seems everyone else hates Collingwood.
The Bunnies, on the other hand have four to show for the past fifty but the last was a long time ago. We also have overwhelming support and, for a change, an absolute boatload of money. But not everyone else in the NRL hates Souths. Well, not if you exclude Rupert Murdoch. One gets the distinct feeling that he would like to do Rudd what he did to the Rabbitohs, ie boot him out. But as in the case of Souths, public opinion swamped him and it will with Rudd (despite the claim of TTH that the margin is down to one half of one percent – WTF?). Wouldn’t it be ironic if, in early October, Rudd and Russell Crowe presented each other with premiership trophies? And Rupert and Truthy crying on each others shoulders. I can see that happening…
No idea noidea.
ltep 995
HSO`994, 991, 986
Scarpat 992, 989
Plus Roy Orbison, Samuel Clements, Ron, GG and Evan 14
I am glad you are now commenting about the poor state of communication between bloggers on this site. – (You may have commented previously, but I have become a more infrequent lurker over the past year and haven’t noticed)
This pompous point scoring seems to be S.O.P. for a lot of posters – FIIKW? SDS?
Good luck with bringing this site back to a more enjoyable read for lurkers.
Thankyou
For those who haven’t seen it yet, the Tony Abbott Vs Tony Jones interview with all the swearing left in. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs7rs3GCoJY
PS. Tony Jones is a real potty mouth
Surely this depends on whether the swing is uniform across states? I’m sure I’ll be struck down for this
but if the ALP were performing poorly in NSW and Qld but comparatively better in other states could the election not be closer than expected?
Point taken; you just chose a really bad example.
Harry, simple. just swim past.
And i just dont get it, all these moanings about this and that, posters, subjects, grammar, name calling, insults, the Amigos etc etc.
This blog is just another slice of life, no better no worse. it has the good, the bad and the ugly. You are free to come and go as you please. Nobody makes you to come and to stay.
Me? I can be serious when it is required but most of the time, my name is Mickey and dolphins? they just wanna have some fun.
Is there a story developing here? Sounds a bit odd…
http://www.smh.com.au/business/palmer-rethinks-us60b-coal-claim-20100209-np70.html
Collingwood,
Got it one with SDS! Nail, meet head. And it isn’t small dog syndrome, either.
I’m starting hum GOCF already! Maybe we can form our own clique…
Turnbull made the speech Rudd should have.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/
Laocoon 1006 – I’m not really cluey on this stuff but what reason could Palmer have for announcing the deal before he has it in the bag. Is he usually so flippant?
But you wanted to VP of the USA… shouldn’t you know a whole lot more than the next person?
Probably. All the symptoms are there: the cliques, the insults, the in-crowd and the inevitable trolls. I have a little moderation going on myself, using the Add-on-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned. It filters out the more egregious posts from those quarters.
But it’s not the trolls who get up my goat the most. It’s the cliques, the little groups of fellow travellers who run their own private agendas here. They seem to have the site to themselves sometimes. Maybe they don’t have jobs or something. I dunno. But you sure do get sick of reading the same little love-ins all the time. And that’s when it isn’t written in hieroglyphics, which is even more annoying.
Roy Orbison,
Deadwood, Dexter?
Itep
Precisely. It’s a matter of the subject at hand, and the view expressed itself rather the individual personality behind it, that should be the focus.
Personal attacks stem from either a wrecking approach to start flame wars on the part of some; or a rather too well-developed attachment to a party in others. Hence the too common rudeness and abuse in response to other posters’ views.
If you remember back to 2008, and the US election threads, that abusive behaviour resulted in a group of regular bloggers – who were excellent posters adding great value to PB – leaving to start Politic101 in disgust. Some of the perpetrators of that schism are still around, still operating the same way.
BH
I cant recall the details but I believe Mr Palmer has been subject to (unsuccessful) action from ASIC on disclosure issues before.
As they say these days, “a bit of a Barnaby”.
I don’t have a job.
Wot’s wrong with that?
No, I’m afraid it wouldn’t. It would involve sentencing myself to endless adjudication and explanation as to why commenter X’s criticism of commenter Y was deemed abusive but not vice-versa. The pay-off for all this effort would be to entangle myself in arguments that would continue to rage on regardless.
BB,
Enjoy your stuff on the PS site – a lurker there also
In regards to the question of leftie inner city latte sippers… have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16t6mIZEQuA
JV, It also stems, I think, from the two dimensional nature of a blog itself. Each person is just words on a screen. If the conversations were being held in the real world, the language would be much more tempered otherwise the end result would be fisticuffs. In addition most bloggers are anonymous behind their nom de blog.
Someone above suggested a revolving panel of moderators to take that exact burden off you, William.
P.S. Nobody else on other blogs deigns to explain their moderations. Why should moderation here be any different?
Truthy I just got the link in last few posts.
Brendan Nelson – a Labor mate getting a Govt. job.
The moderation guidelines, particularly numbers 3; 4; 5; 11; 12; 13; 14; and 15 should be referred to when posters feel an attack coming on.
Can we move on from the who, what, when, why and how people should post – its so very boring..
Laocoon – disclosure issues would certainly explain it. I didn’t know about previous problems.
If this is the bloke who bankrolls the LNP in Qld then it seems Barnaby is following in his footsteps with irrational statements.
BTW I heard Rob Oakeshott’s speech tonight on the ETS. He pointed out Abbott’s statement that the Direct Action plan was based on the NSW gas model. Oakeshott read out a piece showing that the NSW model is actually an ETS so Abbott is advocating a similar plan to the Govts. Oakeshott made some really good points and then Bronnie B spoke and, of course, tried to shoot him down in flames.
No wonder the Lyne electorate like Oakeshott. He is worth their vote.
Anna Bligh has joined KK in knocking back Rudd’s suggestion of raising the drinking age to 21. I imagine the states decide stuff like that and would have to wear the backlash from the alcohol industry if they implemented it.
I haven’t seen the other premiers comments yet but having Qld and NSW opposed to it has probably seen it off.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/raising-drinking-age-to-21-unworkable/story-e6frfku0-1225828421662
BB, To each his own – God bless the child that’s got his own.
scarpat
I agree. I think that makes it even more important to resist that easy anonymous abuse, and shows up those who fail to resist as rather cowardly.
I watched Q&A last night, and can’t recall him proposing this.
He talked about increasing car safety standards, making road rules the same nationally, he talked about the unpopular decision of increasing taxes on alcopops, and he talked about needing more research on why some young drivers are responsible and others aren’t.
I can’t recall him saying he wants to increase the drinking age to 21.
It’s amazing that Labor MP’s are Latte sippers.. who woulda known?
The AMA, NHMRC and a Qld Prof who advises the WHO have backed Rudd. Perhaps there is life in it after all.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/experts-toast-pms-drinking-preference-20100209-nogt.html
These are the sort of posts that stop everyone from taking you seriously.
ShowsOn@1029
Now let’s hear it from the Horse’s Mouth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2XjlSpGW8
There’s another undocumented smiley.
For the record, it is shock enclosed in colons.
as in :the word shock goes here:
William, how is the upgrade of the ^R&^)UI(*&()*)*&(^*((^%&%$&* software coming along?
Time to give the techie an early morning (5 am) wake up call!
William, this is getting ridiculous. You promised an upgrade over a month ago.
What the hell.
Bilbo, moderation killed Webdiary and Margo Kingston. you dont want to go down that path. it will kill you.
By far the most sensible comments to emerge from the current round of meta-commentary are Finnigans @ 1005 and ruawake @ 1024. Those of you who are complaining the site has gone downhill are remembering an idealised past. Can we all move on please.
It still isn’t clear to me that when he says “of course” that he is referring to raising the drinking age.
Mumble was confused by it too:
http://mumble.com.au/?p=1597
Oh boy, Don, is it ever so close now. You can almost touch it.
Christ give the poor bastard a break, I’m sure he has better things to do than sit on the computer 24/7 writing new scripting.
BH
I should withdraw that comment on Mr Palmer and ASIC…I was mixing him up with Andrew Forrest (all these mining magnates seem so similar!)
William,
One thing that “has” happened as a result of earlier comments is that the general decorum of the site has improved and that can only be to its advantage.
BTW, did you take the time to read my post @ 980?
At the time (Q&A) I didn’t take the PM to say that he wanted it changed. He was probably thinking what I was – he’s got a 16 yr old kid.
I reckon most parents of teenagers would love to extend the time for the kids to drink and drive – just to keep them safe. So personally he may like to have the age lifted but he governs for everyone, not just himself.
Other voters have to want it to.
Shows On 1029 – this is a transcript provided by Chris Curtis 829
‘TONY JONES: Right. Let’s get an answer – a specific answer – to Linna Wei’s question about raising the drinking age – the legal drinking age – to 21. Would you consider it?
‘KEVIN RUDD: I don’t have the evidence in front of me to say whether we can or whether we can’t. I’d just rather be straight up with you and say…
‘TONY JONES: Would you like to?
‘KEVIN RUDD: Of course. I mean – you mean would I like to?
‘TONY JONES: Would you like to raise the drinking age to 21? Of course.
‘KEVIN RUDD: I believe in something called evidence-based policy, which is if the evidence is there and it’s capable of being proven that it works, then we look at these things and make a decision. But you’re asking me for a personal impression. You don’t run policy that way, Tony.’
(http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s2811552.htm?show=transcript)
Tony Jones asked, “Would you consider it?” Note the “consider”.
Kevin Rudd answered by saying the evidence wasn’t in.
Tony Jones then said,
“Would you like to?’, as in “Would you like to consider it?”
Kevin Rudd answered “Of course” to that question, not to the one about whether he would like to raise the drinking age. This is clear from the comments he made both before and after the “Of course” about the need for evidence etc.
Of course, none of these particulars will stop the claim that he said he wanted to raise the drinking age, just as no recitation of ALP election policy has stopped the claims that he promised every kid a laptop.
I thought Mr Rudd performed terribly poorly for the start of the program but finished strongly. I could not help but wonder how Paul Keating would have handled it. The Liberal narrative of broken promises and a ‘do nothing’ government is biting now. That does not change my view that Labor will win the next two elections. It has broken promises, but it is not a “do nothing” government. But Labor insiders had better start lifting their game on delivery. One of the holes Labor has dug for itself is to involve itself in every area of policy, instead of saying, as in a true federal system, that an issue is the responsibility of the states and if people don’t like what is happening they can vote in a new state government to fix it.
The best compromise would be to say people under the age of 21 must have a blood alcohol reading of no more than 0.01.
Let’s get that implemented at a national level and then wait 5 years and see if it makes a difference in terms of deaths.
Yes I did, Scorpio.
To me it is a lot more ambiguous when you watch the video.
The fact we are parsing exactly what he said suggests it wasn’t his best answer of all time.
Thanks, William!
Scorpio@923:
Scorp, right again.
I reckon the only solution is for William to simply erase from the record, as they appear, with no explanation, anything he doesn’t like.
It appears, and when William can find the time ( I know he can’t be here around the clock) he simply makes those posts disappear, and any posts that responded to those posts disappear. No names, no packdrill, they just disappear into the ether.
I’ve worked under that system, and it works well. If the numbers on the posts don’t make sense, tough.
If you have replied to a post which has been deleted, and your post has been deleted because of that, tough.
bob and his compatriots would get the message quick enough, and we wouldn’t have the Gus and SO stupidities to look at.
There are no explanations, none of this business of “see the board guidelines number 3456 paragraph (b) (ii)” Who gives a stuff.
If William doesn’t like it, even if he’s just had a bad day and the cat is not around to kick, tough. The post is deleted as though it never was.
It’s like graffiti.
If you remove it as fast as it appears, pretty soon there is no graffiti.
Don
You’re right there Laocoon – they do merge into one another.
Mumble’s on the ball because that seems to be happening a lot lately.
William,
Can you please delete post #1048.
Thanks.
Raising the drinking age to 21 would run into the same argument as to why the voting age was lowered to 18. I was old enough to be drafted to fight in Vietnam at 18 but I wasn’t adult enough to vote. Now the argument would be I am adult enough to vote, adult enough to enlist in the army to fight for my country but not adult enough to buy a drink.
don@1048
[Scorp, right again.
I reckon the only solution is for William to simply erase from the record, as they appear, with no explanation, anything he doesn’t like.
It appears, and when William can find the time ( I know he can’t be here around the clock) he simply makes those posts disappear, and any posts that responded to those posts disappear. No names, no packdrill, they just disappear into the ether.
I’ve worked under that system, and it works well. If the numbers on the posts don’t make sense, tough.
If you have replied to a post which has been deleted, and your post has been deleted because of that, tough.
bob and his compatriots would get the message quick enough, and we wouldn’t have the Gus and SO stupidities to look at.
There are no explanations, none of this business of “see the board guidelines number 3456 paragraph (b) (ii)” Who gives a stuff.
If William doesn’t like it, even if he’s just had a bad day and the cat is not around to kick, tough. The post is deleted as though it never was.
It’s like graffiti.
If you remo]ve it as fast as it appears, pretty soon there is no graffiti.
Don]
And to send the offender an email explaining why so you don’t get posts like :why did you delete my post”
So, wouldn’t increasing the age that you can drive a car with alcohol in your blood be a reasonable compromise?
Kersebleptes@949:
[marktwain,
Here’s one! Mind you, it might just be who he’s sitting next to…
http://images.smh.com.au/2009/11/17/866341/combetcrop-420×0.jpg
If you think that is a shot of Combet looking sexy, I might have to revise my opinion of your high standards!
But Julia is hot, I’ll give you that.
Combet, I’m sorry, is a lost cause. A fine person, highly intelligent, good in QT, kind to his mother, but sexy?
Come now.
Don @ 1048,
Sounds fine to me.
If a comment is such that it doesn’t deserve to be posted here, then that poster has no right to complain or feel aggrieved, if it is deservedly erased.
or make guideline 99 “the judge’s decision is final and no correspondance shall be entered into”
Old Mate at 1036,
I’ve got a feeling I started the whinging about how crappy the communication has become. You’d know this site better than me so I’ll defer that I’m remembering an idealised past.
Finally – as promised many posts ago – this long time lurker will piss off.
Frank Calabrese@1052
Arrrgh – Can you fix my quotes please ?
I always assumed that didn’t need to be stated.
Would lowering or removing the drinking age have a similar effect to raising it?
The point the young lady on Q&A was making was that people can drive and drink at about the same age.
Krugman trying to repair the damage he did when he said the real worry wasn’t Greece it was Spain where upon …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7159456/Fears-of-Lehman-style-tsunami-as-crisis-hits-Spain-and-Portugal.html
With today’s piece
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/euro-perspective/
And…
Will the Dow Jones fall below 9,900 or rally from its 9,908 ?
Palin caught cheating on questions she already knew were coming
http://www.zeitgeistyreport.com/breaking-news/2010/02/08/sarah-palin-caught-cheating-proving-to-the-world-once-again-shes-a-colossal-idiot/
S.o., the Drink Don’t Drive slogan applies to everyone. The democratic and ideal, from a safety point of view, would be to pass a law that nobody drives with alcohol in their blood
Dave, yes but unfortunately she didn’t know which answer applied to which question.
It is frightening that she even got into the position of being a potential VP of the USA. Especially with McCain’s health issues.
Tells how dumb the US politics has become. Errr hang on…we have Barnaby Joyce.
She has a crossing out on her hand??? bwah haha She couldn’t think to rubb it off…or did she use permanent marker?
TP, it’s funny but it makes you want to weep.
The notes on hand story is just more evidence that she is an idiot.
What I think is much worse is the fact Palin attacked Rahm Emanuel (Obama’s chief of staff) for using the word “retarded” in a private conversation, ultimately saying he should resign. But when Rush Limbaugh used the word “retarded” Palin said it was just “satire”.
Of course Stephen Colbert brought the whole episode to its logically conclusion on tonight’s episode by calling Palin “f%^&ing retarded” on his show, then saying he can say that because “it’s just satire”.
Gee, then the roads “would” be a lot less crowded!
Well, since we have to deal with the real world and not just ideals, wouldn’t a good start be to lift the 0 level (or 0.01) age to ALL people under 21, and everyone who is on their Ls and Ps? That would be a good start I think, and would be something that the Feds could get through at a COAG meeting.
and obesity wouldn’t be an issue. Damn, it’s easy to solve the world’s problems
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/raising-drinking-age-to-21-unworkable/story-e6frfku0-1225828421662
Ms Bligh, unlike Mr Rudd, and unlike some dyed in the wool Labor supporters who blindly follow Dear Leader, you follow commonsense and realise that at some point, it is about individual responsibility and not nanny-statism.
Thank god we still have some leaders in this country I don’t consider to have a regressive mindset.
The retarded bit has to do with Palin getting quite upset with Limbaugh over using the word retard and then back tracking not wishing to put offside the great Limbaugh.
He was mocking Palin over the issue I believe.
OZ Tragic #747
“They hide as ex-ALP voters.. ”
AND
Billy #780
“OzPol Tragic, your 747 post is spot on.
Wearing a Green mask while you trot out the latest talking points is a very transparent ploy.”
AND
Scorpio #923
“the manner in which certain commenters post personal attacks, baiting and just plain outright trolling, is absolutely disgusting! ”
Agree with OZ Tragic and Billy and Scorpio
Th Thread is multiple being manipulated by some Greens voters , using diferent varying techniques
1/ Billys example is th most devious method ie as Billy said ‘wearing a Green mask & trotting out (Greens) talking points ”
Pretending NOT to be a Green suporter to gain th advantage of appaering respectible and Independent so that you can then felinely snipe at Kevin Rudd & Labor at will
These aleged “non Green suporters” were they to actualy tell th truth that they ar indeed closet greens suporters wuld NOT be able to snipe with either respectibility or deemed Independant thinking at all They would be deemed partisan & judged accordingley
Altern approach by these alged ‘non Greens” is to subtle bait or nasty undermine Kevin Rudd , but under th cloak of being a respectible independent non Green
When th policys of Greens Pparty ar critised or exposed , co incidently it is these VERY aleged “non Green suporters” who ar th most agitated and fierce defenders of th Green Party So committed indeeds they will spammfor hours of red herings aggressivle defening this Greens Party , that lamely they claim they do not suport
On othr occasions when Greens pPolisy is being subject of Thread criticism these same aleged non Greens suporters ar again th VERY people who will switch subjects out of th blue to an unrelated subject like India racists atacks , doctoring , & th like
If you claim you do not normal vote for one politcal Party AND also want th LUXURY of feline sniping Kevin Rudd , pss off
I do NOT believe people can alegedly swing between politcl Partys so much , and hav a pathettic feline sniping at one of those same Politcal Partys Its reely cowards castle
2/ Other Group of mischief ar admitted greens suporters who trol and bait , always looking to start a pedantic & nasty baed exchange when Thread supposed to discuss proper Politics
Furhtermore this 2nd Group selectiv pick any old story at random out of th MSN or on Google thats anti Labor , for example , posting 19 (yes only 190 oz politicansd since federaton hav been convictd of a crime , and none were Greens So what , and reely no surprise given there & Democrats representaon
This is not even cheap political point scoring , it is a deliborate manipulaton of a Thread for persoanl evil pleasures , at everyone elses expense time and loss of oportunity for Political discusion
3/ Footnotes
to throw darts I was away from PB for a long time and only returned 5 weeks ago change in this Thread caused by both abov Groups collectiveley on this PB is all bad news
Result has been dislocaton of th Thread , and often to th stage where some pages ar junk
A further result has been that when such activities ar exposed , either of th devious aleged “non Greenssuporters” or th ‘admitted Greens suporters who trol & snark’
, they spamm blatant untruths & inuendoes or further baiting crap which causes tempers & thread insults down to/up to there level
I for one join th fray as i feekl such despoictable persons should not go unchalenged Obvous that does not help Thread eithr but am not aloner in chalenging these types amnyways
There is no reason why ADMITTED Greens sympathisers and ADMITTED Labor sypathisers can not hav very spirit sometimes over tops exchanges , such is life So at no stage do I criticisie and i do repeet , I do not critisise any ADMITTED Green bloger here who wants throw darts , they go both ways and thats fine Poltical bloggs ar not for th precous
This Post is about what OZ Tragic and Billy pbloged ….th aleged non Greens suporterds who ar feline snipers and th admitted Greens suports who trol & bait affecting both admitted Greens and adsmitted Labor sypathisers
I thought this post may hav greater positiv or negative effect coming from a poster all Greens blogers just luv as am sort of not a white lilly so to speaks So post at th moment just highlite a problam , and not a soluton except maybe just pact to ignore just one & see if any improvments So temporarily hav not not name names I do sugest just sayin th kettle is calling th pot black is a copeout of issue And no , i dont hav that stfi thingy as it was intro in my absense
They all go weak at the knees with Limbaugh
ShowsOn@1070
P Platers in WA already have 0% Blood Alcohol rule – or perhaps we could increase the P plate period till their 21.
or lower it for everyone. To a certain extent the insurance market already imposes restrictions on younger drivers by having higher premiums for the under 25′s.
I think it is 0% for Learners in S.A. and 0.02 for P platters.
Not sure who mentioned it earlier, but I really like the idea of just raising the drinking age for spirits (maybe just as a first step)
They will not be happy..
Sorry…the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/09/business/AP-EU-Germany-Economy.html?_r=1
Forget the past, lets focus on the now. The real problem is all those crazy kid’s today whacked out on X, the Couriers smoking weed, Truckers on pills, Financial planners on the pipe
http://tinyurl.com/yzuen2z
I’m supposing Truth Hurting would be against lifting the drinking age to 21 because it would then be another 6 or 7 years before he could legally do so?
I don’t think we need more laws that treat different alcoholic drinks differently. Apparently the Henry Tax Review recommends treating ALL alcoholic drinks exactly the SAME for taxation purposes for the first time since 1930:
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2010/02/to-highlight-how-strange-tax-has-become.html
I’m almost certain he is a moonshiner.
OK cross these guys off the potential saviour list.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/09/business/AP-EU-Europe-Financial-Crisis.html
But the Govt will have a hard time getting the Greeks to do anything like what is required.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/09/business/AP-EU-Greece-Financial-Crisis.html
ShowsOn@1085
And lives here:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgZr8ANt3Y8
William@1016:
Not at all.
Never explain, never apologise.
If you don’t like a post, erase it. It never happened.
If someone queries why something was erased, erase that post as well.
People are not stupid, they will get the message.
I repeat, I have worked under that system, and it works.
Tax is one thing, drinking is another. Spirits pack a lot more punch for their volume, so why not?
Ron @ 1074.
Good post! It has been evident that a select few commenters have specifically targeted you in order to elicit a heated response to satisfy their perverse pleasure at someone else’s discomfort.
I bet you have had that bottled up for a while and it must feel good to let it out!
Hopefully we can all move on now and interact with each other in a better spirit!
Dario
I mentioned that a few countries had that law where they differentiate win/beer from spirits in terms of when you can drink it. I think it’s got some merit. I don’t know how much of a problem would be solved by banning 18-21 yo from buying spirits but someone must know somewhere.
I watched that youtube of Rudd and it was a bit more ambiguous than reported although he clearly thought the topic should be open for discussion. He said that he hadn’t seen the evidence from the US to prove whether it worked or not. I posted a link earlier today which showed comprehensively that raising the drinking age there to 21 reduced road fatalities and other alcohol-related problems in that age group.
There must be some options or compromises which will help.
Because the distillers will do what they did with the alcopops tax, figure out a way around the definition:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/alcopops-find-alcoloophole/story-e6frf7l6-1111117495375
We need to simplify the system by creating national laws, not relying on more complexity.
I miss the white picket fence
But we have a problem here with parents buying alcohol for their children who aren’t even 18!
Me neither, but it sounds promising
That’s just a cop out. It’s all too hard!
Frank@1052:
No, you send no explanatory emails. Never explain, never apologise.
If someone sends William an email asking “why did you delete my post” then William trashes it from his PC. If they are persistent, he marks their email address as spam, and he never hears from them again.
Works for me.
Never explain. Never apologise. Just do what you think is right, and stuff ‘em.
Despite all the laws we also still have people who drink drive. We don’t just stop pursuing drink drivers because of that.
Did anyone watch 4 corners last night ?
It was about a number of people in palliative care, ie cancer patients mainly, in the very final stage of their life.
It was very moving program which confronted all about our own journey through life.I am not always a fan of the abc, but last night I was reminded of how important the abc can be.
Keating used to say back in the late 1980′s that the abc was the only place on tv where something worthwhile was broadcast every night.
I wouldn’t go that far these days but the program was a credit to the people featured in the program and the abc.
Finns
You naughty amigos,upsetting your betters
shame on cetacean’s!
Don, I’ll politely overlook the fact that I have asked that we move on from this subject, and that your own comments (not to mention the fairly regular ones where you abuse other commenters) would be prime candidates for the chop under your own regime. These sites of yours where the night-and-fog routine worked like a charm – were they running at about 50 comments an hour? I’m guessing not. On this site, I’d conservatively estimate that 80 per cent of comments that urgently need deleting get quoted and otherwise responded to before I can do anything about them, even when I’m paying very close attention. As such, deleting the source comment does not mean they “disappear into the ether”, and there is thus no message for the commenter to get. All I achieve by chopping them is confusing other readers who come along later. The best I can do is note the fact that the comment has been snipped and state why, which brings us back to square one.
Yes. The lady who said she goes to sleep each night hoping that she doesn’t wake up was one of the saddest things I have seen. Not surprisingly, she also said she wishes the nurses would give her a tablet that would make her die peacefully.
It is being replayed tonight after Lateline Business for those that missed it.
I assume these are not the same bank?
SO
Of course that is true but it’s a red herring. It doesn’t affect the fact that raising the drinking age in the US to 21 reduced road fatalities. This study looks at it over a 23 year period.
So with strict laws on fake IDs, it could be an 18% decrease. That has to be worth considering.
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/health/autocodes/countries/united-states-america/road-deaths-kept-down-by-under-21s-drinking-laws-$1286437.htm
Its all them damn kids!
When I was a lad, hell I could tell you young one’s a thing or two………
Nowadays things have changed, for the worse if you asked me!
Sure we used to die in larger number’s, but I’m old now and I’m a bit worried that me and the missus might get whipped out by some hoon racer on his way back from a crack den.
No drinken or driven until they’re 40 I say!, common sense and statistic’s prove me right!
Things were different back in my day, back then…
we had REALLY big #’s
Well…. the smelly sloppy turd on the carpet about *too big to fail* has well and truly run it race.
Let the mothers fail ! No other way they are going to get the message.
*Banks* particularly – just nationalise them when they are about to go under, total loss to shareholders.
Counter parties and bond holders take huge haircuts and the taxpayer
in the drivers seat for the upside further down the track with refloat of the business as soon as practical.
That is what should always been the blue print.
TP
I wonder how the Greeks feel about being described as not being an “economically viable project”.
Scarpat@1071:
Dio would know a helluva lot more about this than me, but all the real alcoholics I’ve known were thin as a rake.
Maybe I’ve met an unusual subset of alcoholics.
I don’t think we should do it here. I mean, I wouldn’t support it. Drinking alcohol is more part of Australian culture than in the U.S. I think 18 should stand as the drinking age, but we should severely tighten BAC for young drivers. Maybe 0 for 18 – 21, and 0.02 for 21 – 25.
Gus, is it time for lunch?
Diog, it’s all YOUR fault by upsetting some of the posters tonight by not being wRONg for today. You got to try harder!!!
I suspect this investment adviser might be going over the top just a tad. This is FoxNews type investment reporting.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-invest-for-the-debt-bomb-explosion-2010-02-09
How many here when under the legal age used a fake ID or (as in my experience) simply entered a pub and had a drink?
Anyone anyone?
And I seek leave to make one last comment on this subject
PB is my virtual “local”, with its attendant mix of characters.
The rough and tumble in the main is light hearted and meant without malice.
What I cant comprehend is why peeps cant just scroll past ‘em.
Mine Host Bilbo Bowe is probably the Nadir of true political and admittedly sometimes other info.
It is his blog afterall
SO@1094:
My children were offered alcohol at the dinner table from a very early age, right through till they left home as late teenagers.
They sometimes had a wine or beer, sometimes not, and now use alcohol in moderation, as we do.
If it is not a big deal, it is not a big deal. The French worked that out long ago.
To Harry Snapper Organ
Haven’t seen you around much lately. Just want to thank you for your help. Good news is the *0 y.o. lady is moving into accommodation tomorrow supplied by a community based charitable organisation (not Housing Dept). So things are looking up. I have my concerns because the accommodation is a little distance from “her village and friends” – but at least she will be physically safe.
Many thanks for your help again.
Even IF it was brought into law who would obey it ?
The brewers pubs etc ? The young adults or their parents ?
I really doubt it….
You just cannot pass laws banning stupidity.
How many brain cells does it take to just plan a backup driver or taxi if you are out and about while on the grog ?
don
It’s not PC to refer to alcoholics anymore. One type is alcohol abuse (like binge drinkers who aren’t dependent) and the other is alcohol dependence (who get withdrawal).
The people with alcohol dependence are often malnourished and have hepatitis so they are very thin (which is a bad sign). But there are also plenty who are of normal or increased weight.
don@1115
You forgot the Italians who give their kids a tiny amount of wine diluted with water.
Frank
and the french
Well this is a seriously risky thing to do. Alcohol can seriously damage childhood brain development.
Ooops
meant the greeks and most eastern european coutries esp via the church
Finns
I totally screwed up on the SA thread, mainly because my bloody boss hadn’t told me he was running for parliament and leaving me to do his on-call work. How embarrassment!
I’m not sure where us being considered performing dolphins for the benefit of an audience came in.
Gusface
Don’t forget that William has a reason for putting up with this shit, though God knows why he would have chosen such a tortures method.
God help us when he completes his PHD
Once submitted, I’d be going so fast the CIA couldn’t track the vapour trail
William@1101:
William, if you want to chop my posts, go right ahead. Frankly, my dear, I really don’t give a damn.
If it is all too hard, fine. What I am saying is that deleting the posts you don’t like, even on a random basis, will change the whole system.
A culling of the worst offenders would act “pour encourager les autres”
It would be a better system, but it’s your blog. Do what you want.
Finns
Valentines day is already booked.
Here’s some fun from a Republican Primary in California. You reckon Turnbull might try something like this on Abbott.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_Ejfc5hW8
Ummm Keith,
P H D stands for
Please.
Help.
Diogenes.
I think we will be spirits in the sky when Bilbo completes that one
Keith@1113:
When I was a teenager fifty years ago, I had no idea that there was a legal limit to alcohol consumption. Hard to believe, I know, but after all I was from Queensland, an oversight since corrected.
When I used to take my girlfriend to a restaurant, I was 17 at the time, I’d order wine with the meal, I now realise I was under the age limit, and she was well under, and nobody gave a damn. Certainly not the wine waiter.
And after a bottle of wine between us, and a good meal, I drove her home, and then me home after a suitable interval, and no one was any the wiser.
Fine words indeed. It really needs a response.
What you describe just does not capture the situation where ass holes like bob willfully and determinedly setout to bring the board down over an extended period by whatever means possible and just gets away with it. Time and time again.
Many people indeed scrolled past and the conduct just got worse and worse. And nothing meaningful was done about it. Get that ?
When he REALLY overstepped the mark, he was banned briefly , he returned and just resumed where he left off.
Just but the pieces of the puzzle together yourself.
but = put
Let me guess, as part of the “SAVE THE RAH” grouping?
Dave
Bob 2.1 ,like me or you has a VALID opine
Bilbo has the sword of damocles hanging over his every decision
I think he does a damn fine job in allowing anyone to post here.
SO
Yep. To run for parliament you have to quit your public service job.
SO@1121:
They all have seriously well developed brains, trust me.
An occasional wine or beer at the family dinner table is not the same as knocking off a bottle of vodka at a sitting.
You need water, but too much and you will drown. You need food, but too much and you become obese. You need exercise, but too much and you will die of overexertion or heatstroke.
Everything in moderation.
Now that’s just mean.
Do you, by chance, know where I could buy a duck’s egg?
My kid’s would like to try one
Are Mikey Quigley, Executive Chairman of NBN and John Quigley, WA Labor politician related?
Mike Quigley, not Mikey.
Oops. :blush:
Diogenes@1134
I believe that in WA, Public Servants have to take leave during an election campaign and if they are elected they must resign- Yep, I’m right
http://www.waec.wa.gov.au/pp_candidate/candidate_information/state_elections.php#StandForElection
Diog
You don’t have to quit until nominations close, and as they close a week into the election campaign proper, you only have to quit for the last fortnight.
I haven’t had to do this, I’ve just had to refuse work for that period, but I’ve a friend who is a school principal who has done this for a couple of campaigns now (she turns up to work the Monday after the election).
Noone is officially a candidate in the eyes of the law until they’ve nominated and they can’t do this until an election has actually been called and nominations opened.
SA law can’t be different from this, simply because the definition of ‘who is a candidate’ will be the same in every state.
The Save the RAH gang made a huge mistake in including some of the biggest donors to the Liberal Party, e.g. Robert Gerard and Albert Bensimon. It makes them come across as just another Liberal front group (like Bensimon’s ‘No Hoo Haa’ party).
True, but why take the risk? The old idea that the brain is fully developed by the time a child is 10 is now known to be a myth:
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/388/harmful_consequences.pdf
Does this apply to cigarettes?
Keith is not my real name #1105
ROTFLMAO
Scorp
thanks
was relaxed and just thought a point should be made there ar alot of hidden naughty jelly beans in th jar of diferent types , and so s th black one so obvous can camiflage othrs more skilled
And notise those precous about Amigo s and cannt find scrolls but must read to say , and yet th knowlege trees scrolls of Machu Picchu of peru inca codes only known to but a fews
I don’t think so. Why just quote Newspoll anyway. Who said it was the only poll around?
Gus
The exhibits, ie bobs posts over a loong period speak volumes against his
said *valid* opinion.
Many of his posts were just out and out abusive, some vile. Please don’t associate yourself with them. You know what I am saying here is true.
We are all Williams guests, indeed. BUT he allowed bob to go much too far, something which recently, but belatedly he has done something about.
I have difficulty remembering anyone on the board being permitted to breach williams own guidelines across the board. At the time, late last year, there was speculation that bob WAS william, just stirring the pot.
No one had EVER got away with what he had. But he got WORSE. You know the details.
And he is still here.
Just give me a break Gus.
SO@1141:
No, and nor does it apply to gunshots to the head.
SO@1141:
It’s not fully developed at twenty, why would it be developed at ten?
SO
Gerard is fair enough as he’s actually got a whole wing at the RAH named after him and has donated a lot of money to the RAH. I wasn’t aware Mr Hoo-Ha was involved. Still it’s a bit much to complain about Lib backers donating money to the Save The RAH group and not complain about developers donating $25K to Labor when their development is up for decision.
z and Frank
We must have the resign rule in SA because our charming Health CEO sent out a memo ensuring everyone knew they had to resign if they stood for parliament.
Hmm… very interesting. So maybe everything in moderation isn’t a good moto after all.
Ahh let me see, how do we know it isn’t fully developed by 20…
Doom and gloom from Baron’s. RANDALL FORSYTH
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB126565028152742553.html?mod=BOL_hpp_dc
Dave
As much as bob 2.1 reviles my inner child, my outer adult respects his right to voice his view.
Bilbo’s blog,Bilbo’s rules
Dio, what’s the gut telling you about the election result at this stage? Is campaigning in full swing?
Finns back at 1005, I’m swimming all right, but sometimes I get caught in a rip.
William, not doable, then O.K.
PY, hope she’s looked after.
Night, bludgers, the sad, the mad and the bad industry is cranked up here in Victoria and it’s only going to get worse.
Pat McGorry is right. We haven’t put nearly enough into mental health, particularly early intervention and prevention. It’s interesting that Pat has championed getting refugees out of detention, but there is as much damage caused by domestic violence and child abuse, and we’re up to our eyeballs in that.
“At the time, late last year, there was speculation that bob WAS william, just stirring the pot.”
well I was not there eithr at th time
I not that man
maybees peoples re -read my last para post
The brain retains plasticity and the ability to develop well after 20. The number of synapses and nerve endings can change quite a lot after 20.
SO@1149:
Because I was once twenty. And so were you. Think about it.
Well I don’t think so. The guy is a Liberal through and through, so everything he says is tainted with pure partisanship.
I’m not complaining, just pointing out that the Save the RAH group is a partisan organisation, that is ultimately a Liberal Party front group (I imagine that is where they will direct their preferences). They even went as far as shutting down a woman who was invited to one of their meetings, who then criticised the Liberal policy:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2604527.htm
Curse the lack of preview!
Gus
Sorry too much.
Sounds too much like you stopped thinking and just drank the cool aid.
But up to you.
I think Labor will narrowly lose. There are just too many issues that the Government can’t deal with while the Premier is being stalked by a mentally unstable woman.
don
“Curse the lack of preview!’
no sympaty You wilful by passes asst moderator usurping authorities along ways , and not gone unnotised by th way
Dave
johnny taught me one thing
Interesting comment.
SO
Fair enough that it might have been a bad political decision. Of course they will preference Lib over Labor as the Libs agree with their policies and Labor doesn’t.
I can assure you they weren’t set up as a Lib front group. They asked me to be part knowing that I am way to the left. The Libs had nothing to do it at the start. I don’t know abut now.
GB
Rann hasn’t announced the election yet but I’m told Labor is very worried and panicking.
Has ANYONE asked Abbott where in the world his CC approach is being used or has shown to be useful??
Thanks for that. Isn’t it a fixed date?
The “risky” label will get Abbott. It will stick, particularly with the team he has.
My other predictions are that Labor will win comfortably in Victoria, and the Greens will support a minority Liberal government in Tasmania, thus making Erica Betz look like a moron. (Basically I think Labor will refuse to govern based on Greens support)
Oh, and Rudd will win 90 seats in the House and end up with 35 in the Senate.
GB
Yes it’s 20th March but he can choose the length of the campaign and he hasn’t officially started yet. I think he wants the Chantelois thing to simmer down so he can have a cleaner slate to start with.
Nielsen Poll
how come there is no by Party primary votes by Neilsen still these days , and per state as saw some Repot of Labor trailing in NSE , and if so must be up in othr States , presum at least Vic Th 2TPP vote does not tell alot
Isobel Redmond is mentally unstable? I hadn’t heard that. Has this been discussed in the media? Details please…
Well they have effectively been taken over.
If they didn’t want to be a partisan group, they shouldn’t of agreed to do press conferences with Martin Hamilton-Smith.
China.
Even more interesting Shows. I don’t know about SA or Tas but I reckon you are right about Victoria and certainly Fed Labor will win.
Alas. Look where it got lil johnie and his fellow cool aid sippers. He and his fellow
travelers just caught up with their karma and, probably destiny.
You though are a huge disappointment.
So be it.
I think the words to Whitney Houston’s The Children Are Our Future are particularly apt to tonight’s discussion.
Listen to the words…and enjoy.
Chantelois.
Redmond’s approval ratings are astonishingly good so close to an election.
The problem is if she does win government, she will be completely controlled by the right wing nutters. They could end up getting rid of her like they did to Dean Brown.
Dave
i have made myn stance known re bob 2.1
If you choose to read and be inflamed by bob 2.1′s rhetoric so be it
I supect bob’s audience would fill a phone box
I can only try to beat my personal best
Two questions!
Did any of you southerners watch Lateline?
Is it worth staying up for?
I’ve got an early start tomorrow and don’t wish to waste good sleep time!
Diogenes – you don’t need to worry about your boss – the Public Sector Act provides automatic reinstatement when he doesn’t get elected.
Scorps
Hans Blix
Diogs
re resignation rule.
There can’t be a different rule for SA, simply because noone is a candidate until they have nominated and they can’t nominate until the election is called (and usually not for at least a few days after that, as the state election commission has to sort out its paper work).
However, these rules are poorly understood – I have known more than one case of a person resigning either when there was no real need for them to do so or before they needed to do so, because of bad advice in this area.
You might remember that Andrew Robb’s famous google assassinations were based on a similar misunderstanding of the rules – if he can get it wrong, then so can your CEO.
My knowledge of this goes back a long long way; it is a crucial issue for me. I’ve actually argued it with constitutional lawyers….and convinced them.
Dave
think youse both sayin him a sc bag , and I agree Addressing matter perfect is not easy eithr way reely
Gus said
You are not inflamed by his holocaust and cancer patient jokes ?
That’s as you say in # 1151
Gus,
Tah!
No Ron. Gus is saying go for your life. Say and do whatever.
This is kinda off topic, but there ain’t a Tassie thread (I’m hoping that changes soon William?
)… interesting post on Bass by Antony Green. One of the popular Liberals is quitting, making it possibly less likely they’ll improve there. Currently it’s 2 ALP – 2 Lib – 1 Grn, with ALP #3 and Grn #1 really close last election (as illustrated with cool graphs of a Hare-Clark count).
Speaking of which, when was the last time Tassie had a poll? Usually they have the one which shows undecided/other winning more seats than the Greens, but I don’t think there’s been one for a few months.
Can not beleive S A voters be silly to put in a nutter govt assuming Rann trys to expose thems , over sex claims , a trumpped up stupid roylaist campaign on naming a hospital heavwns sake , lack of water falsely gets blamed on Rudd instead of riverland irrigat , and on a clown A-G Whats so bad in SA , apart from SA beer , well aslo cannot play footy
Ron in this poll the 2pp in each states are. NSW- 50 50, VIC-57 43, Q 56 44, SA 57 43, WA 52 48. So nsw is a worry with a loss of 5 seats to labor luckely they would pick up 2 in vic and SA a correction of 4 in WA and 8 in quee so all this worry for no reason
Dave
NO I’m NOT
its just that to be representative of oz society as many views need to garnered as possible.
that doesnt mean you have to agree with them all.
I dont agree with bob2.1 , but accept he has a right to express his views,however personally they may revolt me.
About 50% of Malcolm Turnbull’s campaign in Wentworth was based around his accusation that the Labor candidate was ineligible to stand – because he held an “office of profit” under the Crown (he was a relieving Consumer Claims (I think) Tribunal member). I can’t remember the exact details but they were something like:-
a. On Thursday he sent a letter resigning his position.
b. On Friday he lodged his nomination
c. On Monday the A-G received his letter of resignation.
In the end result Turnbull won, so the question was never tested. However Turnbull produced a lot of print media advertisements relying on this – to show the Labor candidate was “incompetent” and that a vote for Labor was a wasted vote ecause he was ineligible to “win” the election.
At the time (it was in the last 2 weeks of the campaign – polling was showing the parties neck and neck. Turnbull was starting to look desperate.
We both know this is hogwash and a cop out. Get real. Williams our rules do not permit his conduct.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2HX0wjqUqxk&pos=2
It is a good thing that at least some of the time the world’s treasurers and monetary authorities know what to do. HTT’s week-long recession is probably over as soon as it began.
My guess is that Turnbull will do even better at the next election, because the voters in his seat will appreciate his stand on climate change.
Basically they can have a free vote. A vote for Turnbull means a vote for the Liberals, but also a repudiation of Abbott.
I don’t know why he was unbanned.
Turnbull shouldn’t have any difficulty getting back this time should he?
Shows
let he who is without sin,cast the first stone?
viclabor
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 11:31 pm | Permalink
hell mate , thanks
I look everywhers for that Must hav obvous looked wrong place
and
“Ron in this poll the 2pp in each states are. NSW- 50 50, VIC-57 43, Q 56 44, SA 57 43, WA 52 48. So nsw is a worry with a loss of 5 seats to labor luckely they would pick up 2 in vic and SA a correction of 4 in WA and 8 in quee so all this worry for no reason”
yes indeed viclabor plus in a FEDERAL electon campaign feel voters in NSW may focus more Fed than poor NSW stae Govt so personaly I xpect NSW vote to climb on that 50/50 , like all things being equal in future
1) I’ve never been banned.
2) I don’t take biblical crap seriously.
3) I don’t send emails complaining that my posts aren’t fairly moderated.
It was a serious question. I think it was a week before Christmas, Bob was banned for saying something that I sadly didn’t see. Then when I started posting again frequently last week he was back.
Is G.P. still banned?
Gary Bruce,
Turnbull certainly won’t have the Gunns problem to undermine him this time and there is probably not a sizable RW Lib nutter vote that might vote against him!
He could always get a bit of help from “Gordon” Grech!
Why unban some one to start with unless there is some significant indication that the “banned one” had convincingly rehabilitated himself ?
When has bob every demonstrated that his ongoing abuse is ever going to change ?
I don’t think so. I think he will do even better.
However, I think his speech from yesterday has killed off his chance of leading the party again. I think he will run for the leadership, but tt best he could be Hockey’s shadow treasurer after the election. But who knows if he will bother sticking around for that job?
GB _ #1195
Who will the labor candidate be? Some real hard hitters have been mentioned, including Kerryn Phelps.
It is also true that he only holds the seat because the Greens made a decision to preference Labor instead of the former Liberal King, in 2004. If the Greens had preferenced King, King would have retained the seat.
The split in the Liberals 2004 – showed some real divisions in the Liberal Party – particularly the conservative burghers of Darling Point – who supported King and the “new money” supporting Turnbull. Interesting to see whether this time they will be prepared to cross right over, and support Labor (after all it doesn’t seem like the government of the country is going to change if Wentworth goes Labor). That change of government argument was used by Turnbull in 2004. He may have some difficulty in using it in 2010.
Shows
i was being serious
The moderation policy is bilbo’s darg (welsh)
Tho i am available as a relief moderator if needs be
Phelps deserves a safer seat. Seriously, I think Turnbull is absolute odds on to win Wentworth, so any candidate Labor puts there will face a nearly impossible task.
I doubt it. Wentworth is a Liberal seat, yet with Turnbull as candidate, they can vote Liberal but ALSO vote for Labor’s climate policy, because that’s what Turnbull supports!
I really have no knowledge of the area but it sounds as though it could be interesting Peter.
ShosOn – #1205
I think you underestimate the “dislike” the conservatives have always had of Turnbull. Wentworth is not your average seat – it is wealth exemplified….and a lot of it is old money…and old people. The Republic issue also played a big part in 2004 with the arch conservatives.
GP emailed me last week, asking for yet another chance. Perhaps I should put it to a vote.
The idea that a vote for Turnbull is a vote for a new Liberal leader could be a goer!
Have a squizz at the top story in The Age.
http://www.theage.com.au/
Does anybody know whether Mike and John Quigley are related? They look awfully similar, and if they are it simply gives more fodder to those who claim Kaiser jobs for the boys meme.
And of course the seat has some rusted on Labor voters too e.g. Paul keating, Gough and Margaret Whitlam, Neville Wran…..
Yeah maybe. But any candidate that can get a positive swing in a year that their party loses government shouldn’t ever be written off. Turnbull didn’t even go to preferences:
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/went.htm
I just can’t see the conservative voters going to Labor, I mean, wouldn’t those voters want Abbott to win, and will thus be willing to hold their nose just as long as they elect another Liberal to the House who could at least help Abbott form a government (even if he then votes against his climate policy).
With your prior comment as your guiding policy ?
God ferking help us all. Would be a useful as tits on a bull.
I vote for a removal of the ban.
I meant I WOULD vote for a removal, if there is a vote.
And I would vote for a vote if that is also put to a vote.
Whilst I’m a believer that blogs shouldn’t necessarily be run democratically I personally wouldn’t mind GP being back amongst the throng. I enjoyed reading his contributions on occasion.
Dave
undrstand your frustraton very much
However i think what we hav is clash of worlds here We hav a great moderator , andd hope he reads that bit , but volume of posts per day is imposible to vet indiv He we know has secret filters that catch did caught that guys worst that moderator ONLY disclossed when some lady in Tassie I remeber one nite tried to defend him ( actualy she said i was worser) So thats only reason we know what moderator actualy deleted without our knowlege But apart from filters its only reasonable not to ask moderator to do more it be a 24/7 job, AND espec as this guy obvous now slips now just inside thems filters delib Other issue issue is free country vs rite of one screwball to stuff all othrs , which think gus is sayin is moderator giving a open public Site for So think thems th ssues off cuff , and my recomend given moderator cannt reasonabley stop him if he bloggs under th filter rules is we should & i do now encourage posters to giv him zero i means zero oxogens Pain in necks at fist to do this but maybee even th guy when he knows no one reads past his name (that vip bit that he knows no one reads his actual words) will know he wastin his time , and not ours Of couse on footy field you just deck em , but here civilized so perhaps freeze him th gentleman way , not that i a gentleman Those my thoughts at moment
You obviously dont support transgender rights
shame and brimstone
Ron possum has the link ti the full breakdowns on his sight at nielson part 1
I’d like to put it to a quorum first
William Bowe
Posted Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 11:56 pm | Permalink
“GP emailed me last week, asking for yet another chance. Perhaps I should put it to a vote.”
yes for me william Very intell guy , had many debates at him although disagree mostly with him
I’m ok with GP. He had his moments, as we all do, but he contributed to discussions.
Check out all the financial boffins, including Glenn Stevens, that Steven Long lined up to repudiate Joyce:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2814770.htm
viclabor
Posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 at 12:04 am | Permalink
“Ron possum has the link ti the full breakdowns on his sight at nielson part 1″
thanks viclabor , will look
Gary Brice’s link :
Who in the opposition IS strong on economics. Sloppy joe is, er pretty sloppy. barney is almost over the cliff. Just give him a bit longer.
How long before Barnaby is removed? I’d say a couple of weeks at best.
GB
I disagree
I think the libs policy is break or break thru
What else have they left?
Well, it is one of those things isn’t it. Abbott is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. If he sacks Joyce, then that just makes it look like he makes bad decisions. If he keeps him on, then inevitably Joyce will say more stupid stuff between now and the election (not to mention DURING the election!).
Oh, and remember, Joyce is meant to be on Q&A next Monday!
The media is starting to push the “get rid of Barnaby” line. His mistakes will be highlighted now. Nah, he’s a dead man walking, certainly in the finance portfolio.
Nice to see that Abbott forced Hockey to do the pooper scoopering:
I’m sure Hockey is really having the time of his life at the moment.
I don’t blame The Media for doing so.
Of course the hilarious thing is that he has made these sorts of comments ALL THE TIME in the Senate, but that doesn’t seem to matter! It is now that he is a shadow minister that his wacky economic ideas are front page news.
“Phelps deserves a safer seat” hell yes!
She would make for a killer candidate, smart, focused and politically blooded (think AMA)
She deserves a shot at a better seat then Malcolm’s, hell I’d give her Bennelong! (srry Maxine)
Good enough for me. Welcome back GP, you mad dog of the blogosphere you!
#1213 – ShowsOn
Perhaps the move is a bridge too far. However, the support would be less than enthusiastic. The Labor candidate would not need them. There are huge middle class areas in the south of the electorate – the type Rudd policies would appeal to. There is a very large Jewish influence – and whilst Turnbull has got a lot of these in the bag, there is a lot that he doesn’t. A good Jewish Labor candidate would really put the screws on Turnbull (in 2007 the Labor candidate campaign HQ was managed by Rose Jackson, who as a student politician had campaigned the Palestine cause – naturally Turnbull put a lot of effort into publicising that – with photos of her appearing nervously peering out behind a door published on the front page of a major newspaper).
If anyone thinks Wentworth is a blue ribbon seat – they are misinformed.
The Greens have a strong presence–I think about 15%.
Because of Joyce, Hockey has just shot down one of the opposition’s arguments against the debt.
Michelle Grattan,
Bang!
http://www.theage.com.au/national/loose-cannon-needs-firing-20100209-npqn.html
Bilbo
the relief moderator gig for moi????
too late
William wrote ;
Why not go further and say no one can be banned in an ongoing way for anything, ever ?
Thats basically what we have now. Cancer jokes, Holocaust etc etc
As moderator it up to you, but either ban, don’t ban but please just make your mind up in a *reasonable* way and stick to it.
Why ban IF you you are going to go all weak in the knees and say come back and do it again ?
IF GP comes back that means everyone else can carry on like him and thats OK. Thats what you are saying.
Noooooo! Maxine is a hero!
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/189/wallpaper2x.jpg
Keith is not my real name@1233
I’d try either North Sydney against “Tinkerbell” or Warringah against Abbott – though I’ll bet the Fibs will dig up dirt on her batting for the other team like Wong- though having her brother Peter campaigning for her will help.
Noooooooooooooooooooooo
Maxine is a saint
I think so, Turnbull got 41% primary vote in 2004, then 50% in 2007. So it seems that a lot of Peter King (conservative / monarchist) supports ultimately had little problem going over to Turnbull.
I thought Newhouse is Jewish?
Anyway, I just think Labor would be better off going after seats like Macarthur and Hughes, which are both marginal seats that won’t have sitting members. That is where resources would be better spent, rather than trying to shoe horn Turnbull out of Wentworth, who is probably extremely popular now. If Turnbull thinks the election is going to be close, then he will just spend $500,000 of his own money that Labor has no way of matching.
dave, GP has been gone, as it were, for quite some time. Surely a person deserves another chance. Hell, I would hope for one if I blundered and incurred the wrath of the moderator.
Egregiously so.
It’s an election year, we want to read Glen and G.P. weep like last time.
Showson
He is, However, I suggested an additional adjective. He didn’t meet the requirements of the 2nd adjective.
I should hav put a conditon on my vote for GP
He was responsible personal for other guy with no name
Bennelong is silly, McKew deserves that seat for as long as she can keep winning it as the reward for knocking off Howard.
#1240: Yeah, pretty much. I think it needs to be remembered that GP and Bob are, like, two years old or something. Sending a kid to his room is all well and good, but you have to let them out eventually, if only to keep the Community Services do-gooders off your tail.
Turnbull will shoo in , if vote was now , maybe things will change politcaly
Labor wont waste lots money there
Ron
I think Bilbo has come down with the vapours at the idea of me as relief moderator,perhaps i should take it on as a full time task?
William Bowe@1251
And you don’t want to mess with Robin McSweeney either if GP whinges to her
I hold th throne Gus , and am not cheap
well not dear eithr
William
you could make each persoanly responsible for t other
someone would go mad
I did only demand my weight in gold
perhaps i should revise my renumeration
You know there is something wrong with the Liberal party’s climate change policy when one of its proponents runs coal power stations:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/report-blasts-abbott-climate-plan-20100209-nprd.html
Just goes to demonstrate Turnbull’s deep seated belief in the power of money. Also his “bully boy” attitude to people “less fortunate” than him.
Whoops, I meant Robyn
and you would as well if this pic is anything to go by 
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200707/r161467_591995.jpg
“McKew deserves that seat for as long as she can keep winning it as the reward for knocking off Howard”
That’s true enough…
I would love to see Phelps in somewhere winnable though, she has a brilliant mind
It looks like Michael Danby has taken a position of principle in regard to the Robertson pre-selection. In regards to Neal:
But it seems the troubled MP does have some friends left, among them the Labor MP for Melbourne Ports, Michael Danby, who sprang to Neal’s defence on Monday night. ”I appeal to the fair members of the press gallery not to join in what appears to be a shark attack on Belinda Neal,” he told Parliament. Danby singled out Milne, accusing him of running the story ”to negatively affect innocent preselectors in a preselection that is taking place this week”.
Neal fights off media sharks
Well I don’t know about the “legality” of the TAFE teachers strike – but I can tell you the only TAFE teacher I know has been hopping mad – since I think about November last year when he told me about the increase in work hours – rsulting in him having to attend TAFE an extra day per week, whereas he had organised his life around actually attending TAFE only 4 days per week.
SMH, Premier takes hard line as TAFE teachers go on strike tomorrow
David Marr puts an interesting spin on Rudd.
SMH, Question time, but PM’s sense of gravity is stuck in top gear
Dear me..
Is not anyone seriously concerned that the Abbott populism will pull in the ‘undecided?’
If Kev cannot get his skates on, he is going to be in trouble.
Too late to don budgie smugglers. Not too late to reveal himself.
Unless there is nothing more to be seen.
Taa, Peter Young.
Saw your reference after my post.
Have the greatest respect for the perspicacious David Marr.
Mmmh.
Is the US labour market stalling or growing? The same statistical puzzle was evident as the economy emerged from the dotcom crash. One of the factors that contributes to this is the huge service-based cash economy in the US, which provides income if not formal employment to millions.
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2010/02/reactions_to_la.html
CW, Abbott will not make the grade. His net approval rating is barely positive and can only deteriorate once a bit of return fire starts to take effect. He is anything but an alternative PM in the things he says, the choices he makes and the images he generates. He will combust.
09.02.2010
Investors bet €7.6bn against euro, the highest ever short position on any currency;
But things are still precariously poised in Europe:
http://www.eurointelligence.com/
Well this is bothersome…..
sama sama
The whole basis of the EMU and Euro currency rests on the outcome of the highly visible public tests underway. Users of the Euro surrendered their option of sovereign monetary policy with their EMU membership which has been historically the escape route for trapped political regimes.
Preliminary indications are not encouraging as the US dollar versus the Euro spike is clearly signaling. “Traders and hedge funds have bet nearly $8bn against the Euro, amassing the biggest ever short position in the single currency on fears of a eurozone debt crisis. Figures from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, which are often used as a proxy of hedge fund activity, showed investors had increased their positions against the Euro to record levels in the week to February 2.
The build-up in net short positions represents more than 40,000 contracts traded against the Euro, equivalent to $7.6bn. It suggests investors are losing confidence in the single currency’s ability to withstand any contagion from Greece’s budget problems to
the real looming problem is much more frightening. We have felt strongly since the US Sub-Prime problems unfolded, leading the world to nearly the financial abyss, that Central & Eastern Europe was actually the ultimate “sub-prime” problem. From Hungary to the Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, financial problems are prevalent and tied in some way to the hell that is the Euro.
“The massive expansion of Sovereign balance sheets has been essential to compensate for the complete collapse of the Libor market, but it has left investors increasingly nervous. If the Government is lender of last resort, then what happens when they cannot meet their obligations …… Some market discussion and sell side research has investigated the linkages between these countries – for example, the Greek banks are said to have lent heavily to Romania and Bulgaria; most of the Eastern European countries have focused their borrowing in Austria. Patterns like these will determine whether isolated defaults become falling dominoes.”
Sure, Briefly.
But the electorate, y’know. Easily scared. ETS, for one. Portrayed as taxes, imposts, and so on.
Is anyone bothering to clarify that Abbott intends to use his proposal as a slush fund?
See and nee, Howard. Telstra. Future Fund.
Same, same. The Abbott Maternity Leave proposal. Speaking of nee. It is identical to the Safety Net. Something you cannot reach unless you have the resources and time to attend your medico, day by day, or week by week.
And one has to be a high income earner.
No coincidence that the highest achievers in terms of reaching that Safety Net were in Tony Abbott’s electorate.
Doesn’t happen where I live and/or earn money.
A rort for the well able to afford the doctor.
As usual, the poorly paid have little to gain.
It’s the narrowing !!!
In Britain anyway. A hung parliament now looks a possibility.
Times, Voters will make MPs pay dear for expenses affair, Populus poll shows
The ballot for the Robertson pre-selection is on 6 March.
Terrigal-Wamberal ALP branch member Darryl Bowling was adament Ms Neal would not have the numbers to win the ballot.
In an email sent by Mr Bowling to about 70 ALP members including Ms Neal on Sunday, he pleaded with Ms Neal to “graciously” step aside in favour of aspiring candidate, Bensville mother of three Deb O’Neill.
Belinda Neal in face-to-face battle with rival for Robertson pre-selection
Big party allergy?
A minister of religion is considering standing in the seat of Wollongong at the 2011 NSW state election – as an independent.
Rev Bradbery declined to comment on the matter when contacted by the Mercury, but said Wollongong was desperate for a candidate who put the city’s needs before party politics.
“We need someone independent of the major political parties, a candidate that can represent the needs of the community without having to be accountable to other interests, someone who is not corralled by the caucus or party headquarters,” he said.
“Wollongong has unfortunately been short-changed because of its devotion to one political party.”
Wollongong is held by Noreen Hay for Labor. Wollongong City Council was sacked in 2008 following a ICAC inwuiry.
Reverend Bradbery might try politics
Lateline ran a segment, Neal urged to throw in the towel
Leading the way in greenhouse gas emission reductions.
Sydney City Council is looking to establish an Alternative Waste Technology Treatment Facility -to divert waste from landfill to biogas production or possibly energy production, see page 3 of this 6 page pdf document
Bilbo-San, i missed the excitement of last night. Yeah, i miss my Nappy-San, put him back.
I’m going to make a fearless prediction:
Joe Hockey in the next week or so will resign from Abbott’s front bench and join Turnball in crossing the floor to support Labor’s ETS legislation.
Hockey looks very unhappy to me! He is constantly having to contradict the wacky statements of “Barnyard”, and he was distinctly uncomfortable in that supermarket last week playing “retail politics” with Abbott.
The fact that he turned up to listen to Turnball’s speech on Monday spoke volumes to me!
Finnigans: GP would be preferable to Troothy, but Glen would be vastly preferable to the other two.
According to the reserve bank, excessive government spending will led to more interest rate rise. That Rudd and Swann will need to reign in their spending
Kind of like Wayne Swann saying that the “inflation genie” was out of the bottle. Except when Swann said it, it was during the GFC and he was proven to be very WRONG because interest rate felt by 3% within a year ….. I guess he did not see the bulldozer that was about to wipe out that colony of inflation genies.
Because the economy Rudd and Swann inherited was so good, the mining sector had not had any industrial dispute for years and were meeting export targets to China. Rudd and Swann has been spending more than drunken sailors, throwing millions at Grocery choice, Fuel choice, the fail bid for boardband network, tearing down and rebuilding 1 yo school halls. it will be interesting to see if they have any fiscal responsibility
The RBA has at least put them on notice
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/fine-balance-between-rates-and-spending-rba/story-e6frg926-1225828506200
Thomas Paine way bay 1150
But isn’t this just a manifestation of the global economy de-leveraging? And what makes credit induced panics/recessions/depressions so tricky to manage. Banks (et al – the Babcocks of the world) needed to de-leverage; this has unfortunate consequences for economic activity. Constrained credit growth is the way financial institutions traditionally rebuild their capital position…borrow short and invest in long government securities – with an inverse yield curve, a great way for them to make money
This suggests to me that the adjustment process will be rather long and rather volatile (e.g. US markets over night)
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2814770.htm
Barnaby and the coalition are an absolute disgrace and a massive threat to Australia’s economy.
dovif,
Nice try. But, get the story in correct context instead of blathering your Liberal party inanities.
“Wayne Swan said Mr Stevens’ comments were directed at other countries with much higher debt levels, and noted he had previously expressed satisfaction with Australia’s budget position.
“Australia government debt is around 20 times smaller than the average across major advanced economies and the Rudd government has laid out a clear path back to surplus which has won the approval of the OECD, the World Bank and the IMF, which described our fiscal position as `enviable’,” the Treasurer said.
“Governor Stevens has clearly said he is very comfortable with the government’s fiscal position and has noted – along with many other respected economists – that Australia’s debt levels are too low to impact on interest rates domestically.”
Rudd is one smart cookie, if you want more favorable tv coverage, you can always give them $250 mil from the taxpayers
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/ruddsbr250mbrlifts-tvbrprofits/story-e6frg996-1225828506347
You just cannot trust the coalition with the economy.
William – GP has my vote too. The latest sheningans with a couple of posters leaves GP looking like an angel. Naturally I want him to act like one too!!
We should hear the other side’s views as long as there isn’t blatant abuse of other posters. Pollies are fair game on all sides – posters are not.
GG
What he said was, that government should restrain spending and that would keep interest rate low, he is also saying that that unrestrained spending like the school halls etc increases interest rate. He is also saying that the government should repaid the amount it borrowed so far
Yes, no doubt Rudd inherited a great economy with no debt and currently we still have one of the lowest debt levels in the world (unless we are planning on borrowing $37 billions dollar any time soon)
He said
Speaking to central bankers from around the world gathered to celebrate the Reserve’s 50th birthday, Mr Stevens speculated about how monetary policy should be handled if governments restrained spending to pay off debts, creating a drag on economic growth. ”The straightforward answer is presumably that it would remain more accommodative than otherwise,” he said.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/interest-rate-rises-in-labor-hands-20100209-npro.html
What on earth was the Mad Monk thinking when he gave the finance gig to Barnyard?
Joyce plays well to the racists and crazy hicks who inhabit talkback radio, but the man has no concept of economics.
Dovif – this is an election year. The RBA is worried about the promises the LIbs are going to make.
Remember how Treasury and the RBA told the Howard Govt. to stop the wasteful spending in 2006. They didn’t – inflation started to become a problem and the personal debt levels were the highest ever. So the RBA whacked up the interest rates.
The message, I think, is more to the opposition than the Govt. which is following the Treasury/RBA line pretty closely.
dovif,
How many billions did Howard and the Libs donate to the advertising indusrty for all their little campaigns. Think mouse mats, think fridge magnets, think TV ads that failed to explain Work Choices.
dovif,
Actually, your first paragraph is what you said, not Governor Stevens. Verballing the Reserve Bank Governor makes you brave but stupid.
Dovif, went:
That wasnt what he was saying at all. You can read what he actually said here (Section 4):
http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/confs/2010/cagliarini-kent-stevens.pdf
GG
I am pretty sure the unions and Labor outspend the Liberals in TV ads by a large margin in the last election
I am not sure how mouse mats and fridge magnet has to do with it, since they were probably made in China.
BH
That would explain why we had 4 rate rises in the last 5 cycle…. I guess knocking down 2 yo school halls, fuel watch, grocery watch and 17 million to Conroy to reject the telecommunication plans show great spending restrainct …… as for the $40 billion NBN and $450k a year to a Labor hack to promote a company without a business ….. the RBA cannot be referring to that, when it says the government should look to reduce debt
If William is to be consistent in his policing of his blog (and of course he’s under no obligation to be consistent), then he ought either to re-admit GP (on a pledge of good behaviour), or ban bob1234 and Truthy, who are a good deal more stupid and offensive than GP ever was. GP on his good days did make intelligent contributions to debate. Bob1234 and Truthy never do – they just come here to bait Labor supporters (from opposite sides). Although to be fair to Truthy he doesn’t usually direct his abuse at named individuals here.
Psephos: I’m a little disappointed that William continues to give Bob and Truthy free rein to abuse those who don’t agree with them, and Bob is here only to bait Labor supporters.
Glen I frequently disagreed with, but we could have a civil discussion that didn’t descend into name calling.
Does anyone think Barnaby is going to make it to the next election? Abbott must be ready to kill him.
dovif,
You are just one big Liberal talking points regurgitator. However, your engine is about to overload with that all dump in one post.
Better go back to the factory for a resetting.
Psephos, I know it’s more cutting to have to deal with criticisms from the left rather than the right, but can you please just attempt to remain on topic than attempt to be some pseudo admin trying to second guess William? I doubt it.
On the RBA, some of the more interesting commentary is on potential of monetary policy on bubbles…
And I think the anti-Greenspan approach (for a want of a more elegant description):
There is also an earlier passing reference to external sustainability. I wonder what is going through RBA’s mind on the potential nexus of Australian housing prices, credit expansion and offshore funding by banks?
If one is into this type of thing, the whole (shortish) document is a worthy read, including the second paragraph, which in the original is in bold text:
GG
of course, as per normal, when your points are shown to be in error, ie advertising for example, you play the man, rather then offer anything worthwhile in discussion
Very typical of you
Possum 1294
no he was not directing it to Australia, but he does warn of continue overspending and accumulating excessive debt and he does say Australia had done a great job in the 1990s, and 2000s to not follow the rest of the world’s example
And I think fiscal responsibility is always a good virtue of a governemt
Second, and perhaps more pressing over the next few years, will governments be able
to match their expansionary fiscal activism with a corresponding degree of discipline
to restore budgets to sustainability? It is noteworthy that for a number of developed
countries, debt-to-GDP ratios have tended to trend up since the 1960s; certainly the
pattern among developed economies overall has been one of periods of rough
stability, followed by a further increase in the next recession (Figure 5). There are
exceptions to this, with Australia being a particularly striking one, where the debt
ratio actually does have a cycle around a stable mean, and many Asian countries have
traditionally had strong fiscal discipline. But there are plenty of examples of the other
pattern.
Bob,
And when has there ever been any cutting criticism from the left?
bob, in your previous incarnation you were an abusive troll posting unintelligent babble simply to cause trouble. This, apparently, is not a crime under the reign of William the Blog. But, the fact that you were unfunny is probably the reason you were snipped in the end.
Now that you have returned, you’ve adopted this mask of pseudo intelligence. You’re still the same old moron you used to be, but at least it’s amusing to read your self important brain farts of stupidity.
Craig Thomson is defending himself in the Reps.
dovif,
Don’t cry.
“no he was not directing it to Australia”
You’ve just undermined your credibility for most of your posts this morning. You did all by yourself! Wow.
And you’re baiting again…….what happened to the new and improved Bob?
dovif 1303…
Dovif/possum…do you know where there would be a chart of a comparable metric for private debt:GDP? My suspicion (but that is all it is) is that it would be even higher and show greater acceleration than public debt
I predict the government will lauch a full throttle assault on Abbott and Joyce in QT this afternoon.
I agree on Barnaby Joyce – it was a stupid thing to say and he shouldn’t be shadow finance minister. But it has made me think that there are deeper strategic problems in the opposition.
I think the Opposition’s whole strategy to attack the government has failed and they should change tack. They are attacking the government on its strengths (econmoic policy, questions to Tanner) and ignoring weaknesses of either policy (eg no laptops) or people (Smith adn Conroy). They are on course to go to the next election not only with the economy and governmetn in good shape, but without having taken a single ministerial scalp. Even the most ardent of Labor supporters wouldn’t kid themselves that not a single minister has made a major error in three years.
They would be much better off focusing on themes that resonate and play to Labor weaknesses – eg Rudd control freak/too big govenment/curtailing individual liberty/ internet censorship / airport scanners. This would allow them to focus on weaker ministers (communications minister Conroy) rather than giving Gillard or Tanner another chance to make them look like fools.
Secondly, few ministers really know much about econmics and finance; they rely on their advisors. So who advises Barnaby Joyce? Suggesting that Australia’s sovereign debt is a problem is so obviously wrong that you hae to ask who is advising/teaching Joyce economics. It is so wrong that it just undermines all the opposition’s other attacks, because it gives them an “attacking everything” image that is very negative.
Finally, having the right person in the right job is part of leadership. Abbott is hurt by this too.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2814494.htm
How is this not playing the man dovif?
Joel?
It would be very difficult for Abbott to sack or even shift Joyce, because it would reflect badly on his own judgement in making the appointment, and it would cause a lot of trouble with the Nats, who see Joyce and his brand of logic-free populism as their only hope for survival.
Socrates, apart from being dull, what crimes has Stephen Smith committed?
Conroy certainly should go next time Rudd does a reshuffle, and I’d probably add a few others to the culling list(Martin Ferguson, Brendan O’Connor, Chris Evans).
The likes of Maxine, Bill Shorten, Mike Kelly should be promoted.
Socrates,
The economy is central to every election. If the Opposition cannot match the Government on economic management, then they are doomed to a massacre. Joyce has to be on notice that he can’t keep talking in thought bubbles no matter how sincere he is.
My guess is that Barnaby is only there as part of the price demanded by Clive Palmer for bailing them out. At some time soon, this price might look too high.
How about Andrew Robb getting the gig?
He’s safe as houses while the religious right has a stranglehold over Labor.
It’s appalling and an abhorrent abomination is what it is.
Psephos
I heard a few political commentators say the same but they thought Barnaby would continue to throw the Lib narrative off and leave Abbott continually following him around with a pooper-scooper.
It’s really Palin Mark II. Except Palin is better looking.
Dovif
That argument is not valid. Both the governmetn and Treasury/RBA have made it clear that the stimulus measures are temporary. Australia’s budget will return to surplus within three years on forecasts; sooner on current trends.
RBA and Treasury heads have made some insightful and very informative speeches on some of these issues in recent months. I particulalry recommend those by David Gruen (Treasury) and Rick Battelino (RBA), two of the best economists we have IMO.
http://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/
http://www.treasury.gov.au/contentlist.asp?classification=54&titl=Speeches&ContentID=515
Dovif adn Barnaby should particularly read this speech by Gruen, and see tables 13 to 17 for why the stimulus has worked, adn why it isn’t a long term debt problem.
Sorry – last link for Gruen speech. Labor should run chart 17 in its election campaign.
http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1683/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=Economic_Outlook_and_Global_Financial_Crisis.htm
Diog, he wont it past this month, with a Chinese New Year in between and it’s the Year of Tiger ……. grrrrrrrrrrrrr …………. and i got too many Tigaressss in my life ………………
Psephos
Perhaps I was a bit hard on Stephen Smith; He bores me but no, I can’t recall any errors being made by him. Conroy has been the worst performer IMO.
Why is it that when a minister presents a new bill (as Roxon is doing now) it is always a member of the Opposition who moves that the debate be adjourned when the minister is finished?
Stephen Smith might be dull, but he’s competent, thorough and forensic – there’s no way Rudd will shift him from the foreign affairs portfolio.
GG
Rudd still won the last election by pointing to governmetn weaknesses even though we weren’t in recession. I still don’t think the opposition is choosing its battles well, or which troops to fight with.
Speaking of Clive Palmer, I hope he hasn’t been misleading the stock market:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/09/2814948.htm
I doubt this would help Anna Bligh either.
Socrates – it wouldn’t matter how many advisers Barnaby had, he’d never really listen.
He is so busy running off ‘at the mouth’ that he hasn’t got time to get his thought processes into gear. The man doesn’t have control of his tongue and he likes it that way, so he won’t change no matter how many advisers he has.
On the other hand…..Conroy is a disaster!
Just wondering how Barnaby rates with female voters.
That red faced shouting approach triggers off memories for me of male bullying, usually a result of daring to question male omniscience.
Wonder if other females have similar flashbacks when Barnaby gets going?
Abbott thinks Barnyard is going to win back for him all those Labor regional marginal seats, because of his supposed populist appeal.
And Joyce is eulogised by the right wing radio shock jocks, which makes him more attractive to Abbott!
Barnaby getting quite a bit of negative coverage on Sunrise, so I assume he is doomed. I’ve concluded that, like Palin, he is just plain stupid. The “I’m an accountant” qualification for Finance Minister reminds me of the “I can see Russia” qualification for VP. Abbott is stuck though because he has talked up Barnaby’s popularity in the bush, and Barnaby could be quite destructive if deposed.
I think Evans is the best Immigration Minister we’ve had for many years. His performance during estimates has been excellent – calm, consistent, thoroughly across his brief. The policies he is carrying out are Cabinet’s policies.
Definitely. Smith is the calm against the battered J Bishop. The difference between the poise of Smith and the arrogance of Downer is something I’m enjoying.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26696721-952,00.html
Christ, i’m agreeing with Abbott over Rudd. Scary times.
Dovif – his basic post-GFC message is that countries budgets should be balanced as early as possible after the stimulus packages cease to be needed to plug demand holes.
Our stimulus packages are already starting to wind down, the budget papers demonstrate that clearly. What people forget is that the stimulus withdrawal starts to detract from GDP right now -from the March quarter of 2010.
The critics of Conroy forget he is the Minister that brought Telstra to heal. A succession of Liberal Minsiters couldn’t handle the heat. These days I notice the absence of talking heads from Telstra threatening everyone. I notice the changing of the guard at Telstra when the American management and the chairman suddenly disappeared from the scene.
How the NBN unfolds is still unknown. But, slaying monopolist rent seekers puts Conroy up there with positive reformers
Zoomster – yes, yes and yes. Watching him during the CC debate last time was a great reminder of that old school of bloke who loved to bully. My biggest worry with Joyce is that he’s going to have a fit or stroke when his face gets so puffed up and red.
Poor La Trioli and Joe O’Brien were desperate this morning when discussing the newspapers with their guest. He was derogatory about Joyce but they were still trying to push the line that he was a great bit huge ‘asset’ to the Oppn. The guest (Professor Burton, I think) thought otherwise. Trioli had to take a deep breath to calm her poor furrowed brow.
Agree with Psephos about Chris Evans – a lovely, steady, calming hand on Immigration.
I don’t like agreeing with Abbott
The physical carrying on of Abbott in the Parliament and His own Party room meeting, you know the arms flaying like a sick chook, is very undignified. And his “Yes, we can” is bordering on the insane. Imagine comparing himself to Obama. It’s like comparing a dung fly to the Eagle.
The biggest number of speeding infringements occur on Sydney’s Northern Beaches, which coincidently is Abbott’s electorate.
So the Mad Monk is now courting the “hoon” vote?
bob,
You trying cutting criticism from the right now?
Bob: Abbott however likes to preach to young women about what they should do with their sexuality.
So it’s one rule for teenage boys, and another for teenage girls?
It’s always entertaining to watch conservatives tryintg to be simultaneously libertarian and authoritarian. They’ve all been raised on Ayn Rand and Thatcher, so they’re philosophically committed to libertarianism (no “nanny state”), but they know they have to pander to populist authoritarianism (“tough on crime” etc) to try to get working-class men to desert Labor and vote for them. So they simultaneously want no state and a stronger state.
Watch them all fall all over themselves to greet Obama in March, the very same people who not so long ago dismissed him as an “Islamic Terrorist”.
Garry Bruce
See 1290 … I am waiting …..
Bob: you’re finally revealing yourself as the Liberal troll I always suspected you were?
Labor at crossroads in test of Rudd’s character
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/labor-at-crossroads-in-test-of-rudds-character/story-e6frg6zo-1225828481744
I’m not sure, but it will be interesting viewing.
Neil Mitchell believes Barnaby is popular and the government and journalist criticising him will make him more popular.
By agreeing with Abbott once in a blue moon? Shoo please.
No, evan14, it’s just that he likes any excuse to attack Rudd – the old ‘concern troll’ stuff.
I’m waiting for him to write that he voted Labor last election but, now, alas….
Bob: News Ltd and their main newspaper are openly backing Abbott and the Liberals, so you’d hardly be surprised at more Rudd bashing from them.
zoomster,
I’m underwhelmed that another News hack at the Australian writes a piece that claims Rudd is on the ropes.
They’ve been wrong every step of the way. Why should today be any different?
Greensborough Growler: I’m usually more amazed when a News Ltd journo writes a piece that’s complimentary towards Rudd, a real rarity(and usually only George Megalogenis LOL).
Socrates #1310
Agreed! It’s been the Oppo’s problem since Day 1. They’ve been bowling lollypops to the Government’s best – Julia Gillard, their initial target, proved to be another Gilly – and nervous nellies (like Swan’s) batting prowess has greatly improved.
Rudd’s coverage of his governments’ portfolios is comprehensive; bowl one at him and it usually goes straight to the boundary. Bowl one at Tanner & someone in the crowd catches it. Try Albo & it’s usually a nb he belts out of the ground – or right back at the bowler’s head. The Oppo seems scared enough of Roxon & the TU twins Greg & Bill to ignore them most of the time.
In addition, the Oppo still behaves as if it’s in government, prefacing Qs with paragraph/s-long contorted debate (to which they want a “simple yes or no” answer) without ever considering what Costello & other top Howard gov performers would have done with a similar Oppo ALP question. Having Chrissy, Bronny & Heff jumping up & down with Points of Order, giving the Speaker an opportunity to chide them for debating the question; remind them of previous (Lib) Speakers’ rulings; or repeat his well you opened the gate style answers, is seriously stupid. Not that the ALP didn’t do it after they lost the 1996 election, or that some poor performers didn’t continue to give Costello openings; but they rattled Howard & took several wickets.
QT exists to hold the government accountable, and that depends on good intelligence networks’ digging and dogging. Only during revelations about Joel Fitzgibbon (the Oppo’s only “scalp”) & early stages of the OzCar affair have I seen the government rattled. By this time, Howard had lost several ministers, and that ceased during his PMship only after his decision to ignore his own Ministerial Code of Conduct; although he did force Wooldridge (MRI scandal), Reith (Children Overboard) and others not to stand for re-election.
GG
You get the impression that the msm have forgotten what happened in the lead up to the last election – that every time they laid a ‘killer blow’ on Rudd, his ratings either weren’t effected or went up.
Why they think this time round will be any different, when Rudd is more popular now than he was then, is a mystery. (Well, no it’s not, they’re just dumb as batshit, but one has to pretend….)
I think bludgers should read in full Michael Danby’s comments on Belinda Neal and Glenn Milne. Only Michael would dare do something like this. As I think bludgers know, I worked for Michael on and off for five years. It’s moments like this that made working for him worthwhile.
After the 8AM news on the ABC news Fran was talking to Chris Pyne. One thing he said was: “What Mr Abbott meant was …”
It’s sad that the Leader of the Opposition should require an interpreter. Maybe Chrissie really is the “Manager of Opposition Business.”
A pity that Pyne didn’t show any loyalty to Turnball the other day – what a backstabbing piece of crap he is!
I hope Labor preselects a decent candidate for Sturt – I’d love to see Pyne go down!
OPT
Yes we are on the same wavelength here OPT. As I have said previously, IIRC when Labor lost in 1996 most of their current core leadership team (Rudd, Swan, Gillard) were not even in parliament. The opposition either need to demonstrate they have the flexibility to change their approach or they need to change their personnel i.e. get the old brigade to retire and new people elected. There was never a galaxy of talent behind Howard and Costello and they need to face up to that fact.
And it can’t be long before Speaker Jenkins tosses Chris Pyne out of QT, maybe today?
It will be interesting to watch but what will Bob Brown and Sarah Hansen Young do. SHY seems to have more to say against Labor and for the Libs than any other Green lately. How will she cope with Obama.
Psephos 1355
Good post. I don’t read Milne for that and other reasons but Danby still makes a good point.
For the Libs? Since when?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/09/2814949.htm
Ouch.
If Rudd and the leadership team decide that they’d have a better chance of retaining Robertson with a new candidate, Belinda is history(despite whatever influence her husband still might have).
Milne will just say that higher standards apply to elected representatives.
dovif #1301
So, you wouldn’t have voted for Menzies in 1952 (Oz’s record inflation) or 1961 (“Credit Crunch”) and under no circumstances would you have voted fro Howard after his Worst Postwar Treasurer in the Western World (John Stone) effort 1980-3?
And you’re still ignoring the fact that Oz’s Federal Government was in debt (War loans, loans for essential infrastructure eg Snowy etc, and so on) until a few years ago. The first Oz government to “retire” debt was Hawke’s – only a few years after Fraser/Howard’s disastrous run! Howard-Costello simply finished the job (some loans, esp 50/60-year war ones (mostly from the USA), were due to expire or already had).
“Still” because I’d already typed the same in the last couple of days!
Slow learner!
Interesting too that watching QT, I’ve noticed that Belinda never gets to ask any “Dorothy Dixers” – does that mean she’s out of favour with the hierarchy?
On the other hand, Arch Bevis gets a gig every day – are Labor that worried about losing the seat of Brisbane?
Psephos,
It must be Michael Danby day. Here’s another of his considered contributions, this time regarding our relationship with China. He also puts the well known shill, Alexander Downer in his place. A good read.
http://www.breakfastpolitics.com/index/downer-china-appeaser.html
Bob, for your information:
To evan14 (1357): Labor has not yet selected its candidate for Sturt but the hot favourite is Rick Sarre, the brilliant and articulate Professor of Law at the University of South Australia.
Do I have to do everyone’s research for them?
could = COULD
1367 evan14 – That’s not correct. I’ve seen her ask questions.
Psephos – thanks for that piece from the House this morning. Couldn’t see it on TV.
So once again the nasty Ronaldson verbalises to cause damage. I guess Ronaldson considers he is squeaky clean – he’d better be.
As much as I’d like to see Pyne lose Sturt (my old stomping ground), I doubt it will happen.
Rudd was polling much better at this point of the electoral cycle last time than this time. But i’m sure all the little Laborites will come out and continue to claim that Rudd will break history and increase the 2PP on the first re-election rather than suffer a swing.
I’m predicting 51/49 to Labor.
evan14,
You’ll find that the major factor in determining which backbencher gets to ask a question is how much the minister wants to relate to that member’s electorate. You’ll find many ministers saying: “I thank the Member for … for his question. I know that he has a particular interest in …. WHEN I VISITED THE ELECTORATE WITH HIM LAST WEEK …”
Belinda had a good run in the previous session of parliament.
OZpol Tragic
The reserve bank just told us what a great job the Australian government did in 1990s and 2000s for us to not have a high debt level
Quite simply if you read any of it, it was praise for Howard and Costello for the job they did with the economy, when most other western economy (including resource rich countries like US, Brazil and SA) were struggling
Unless you (like most here) thinks that Rudd was the one reducing the debt, oh wait he has actually increase the debt. I have no doubt that if Labor was in power for the last 20 years, interest rate would be 20% (under Keating) and we might look like greece today
Some may remember that yesterday I asked if anyone had a link to a report referred to by Greg Combet during yesterdays QT.
Hansard reports that Combet said the following -
”Just before question time, a fresh analysis of coalition policy was issued by Bloomberg New Energy Finance. They have done an analysis of the opposition policy. They have estimated that the opposition climate plan ‘would result in an average carbon price of $64 per tonne over four years’, compared to a carbon price under the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme of only $14 a tonne. Part of their reasoning for that analysis, which is quite a stunning assessment of the cost of their policy, is that the CPRS will be more cost effective because it is a market based mechanism.”
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr090210.pdf
for Tuesday 9th Feb 2010
Commencing on page 5 and continuing on to page 6
The original report can be found at -
http://www.newenergyfinance.com/free-publications/press-releases/
“The Coalition in Australia offers its alternative to the CPRS, but it needs to come up with something better and get the numbers right”
9 February 2010
Then
Click on the link “research” in the second paragraph of that press release.
Some quotes –
“the analysis finds that the CPRS is likely to be more cost-effective than the Coalition’s proposals for two reasons. First, because it increases the pool of low-cost abatement options available to Australia by linking to the international market. Second, the CPRS is a market-based mechanism backed with penalties to force participants to find the least-cost abatement options. In contrast the Coalition’s approach is a voluntary mechanism and so does not penalise firms whose emissions increase, and it does not offer a permanent price signal. As such, there are fewer incentives to abate and a large fraction of the low-cost abatement options in the economy would likely remain untapped.”
“the Coalition’s scheme is unable to guarantee a specific level of emissions reduction. By setting the value of the proposed fund, it cannot set a corresponding volume of abatement. The CPRS in contrast fixes an emissions target and allows the market to find the least-cost way to achieve it.”
“the climate change challenge calls for long-term policy infrastructure which can be scaled up to achieve deep cuts in emissions over time. Direct government funding as per the Coalition’s proposals will likely become increasingly unviable once the low-hanging fruit is exhausted and more significant changes to the economy are required”
“the Coalition plan relies too heavily on sequestration through soil carbon – a high-risk approach considering soil carbon cannot currently be included in Australia’s greenhouse accounts and although Australia may include it in a post-2012 agreement, exactly how it will be treated is unknown.”
“The Coalition’s direct-action climate policy claims to achieve a 5% reduction in emissions by 2020 at a fraction of the cost of the government’s CPRS. This conclusion however appears to be based on flawed analysis. Our figures show that the CPRS would actually be more cost-effective than the Coalition’s proposals, costing less than A$1.5bn over the first four years in contrast with A$3.2bn under the Coalition’s plan.”
“The key difference between these numbers and the Coalition’s is that in our figures the costs only relate to the abatement volume, not the full allocation. Therefore in the first four years of the CPRS, at most A$1.4bn will be spent to lower emissions by a total of 43Mt from BAU levels at an average carbon price of A$14/t. In contrast, the Coalition has estimated that its direct-action approach will achieve approximately 50Mt at a cost of A$3.2bn.13This is equivalent to an average carbon price of A$64/t compared to the expected price in the CPRS of around A$14/t. “
dovif – ever heard of a GFC. Your mob would have had a surplus now but with Australia in a recession.
LOL. Prove it.
And guess what this will do to prices?
dovif
The debt here still isn’t a problem. Yes, Howard and Costello paid it down (good job). This enabled the Rudd government to respond promptly to solve the GFC (at least in Australia). Hence Howard and Costello do deserve some credit for current circumstances and Rudd and Swan shouldn’t get all the credit. But this is where the opposition comes unstuck. If you say that Howard and Costello deserve some credit for current scircumstances then you are implying that the current circumstances are OK (true). If you then turn around and say we have some problematic debt that appears to contradict the first claim. Plus its false.
As for your 20 years comment, see chart 24 of the article I linked to before:
http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1683/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=Economic_Outlook_and_Global_Financial_Crisis.htm
Economic (GDP) growth in Australia was FASTER in the Hawke – Keating era than under Howard. Likewise in comparative terms, interest rates rates in Australia were NOT worse under Hawke – Keating than Howard Costello. World interest rates in the Howard era were low; ours were about mid-field. Howard benefitted from this good fortune, but certainly didn’t cause it.
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/operation-titstorm-hackers-bring-down-government-websites-20100210-nqku.html
More on Kevin Rudd’s performance on Q&A at
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/tetchy-pm-fails-to-satisfy-young-audience/story-e6frg6zo-1225828494797
Chris 1383 – The Australian? Nuff said.
In that document I referred to in my previous post (#1378) from Bloomberg New Energy Finance the following was very interesting and raises a number of questions
“Our most recent analysis of the international policy space suggests that the threshold conditions for Australia to move from its unilateral 5% target to a 15% target level may already have been met. A full analysis of developing and developed country commitments will be presented in an upcoming Bloomberg New Energy Finance Research Note. However, a weighted average of developed country targets as outlined in Annex I of the Copenhagen Accord would suggest the Australia would need to reduce its emissions to 16% below 2000 emissions levels by 2020 to take equivalent action as the US, the EU and Japan. These current targets are shown in Table 2 . “
(The table can be found on pate 6 of that document.) I did not produce it here as tables are not all that compatible with this system.
Does this mean that if Rudd gets his CPRS through this time then the target will be 16% and is this enough to get the Greens to support in the Senate this time around?
The young (Libs) will get over it don’t worry.
Cut off their “play money” (aka Centrelink Benefits) and they might actually go find work rather than sitting on the computer all day.
Gary,
Read the comments, not just what Peter van Onselen says.
The people watching and participating in Q&A aren’t likely to be the swinging voters parties need to win over.
What’s your point Chris? There are 26, let me say that again, 26 comments. How many Young Libs are there again?
Itep,
Correct, but Q&A is just an example, and it gets coverage in the press afterwards as well.
Gary,
My points, are the same as made before: that Kevin Rudd performed poorly, that this poor performance needs to be corrected, and that the “do nothing” and “broken” promises” narratives are gaining strength. Ignore my judgement if you wish. Thousands have.
Pseph
Hear Hear
on the neal and thompson matters
Will the fibs and their press gang ever learn
Chris The Australian is a conservative paper with a conservative journalist writing the article, with largely a conservative readership. What else would you expect? 26 responses Chris. Massive response – not.
Look at the polls, all of them. Rudd is still popular and by far the preferred PM.
Not sure what you’re getting at Chris.
Which is easily counteracted in an election campaign.
Every opposition at every election accuses every government of “doing nothing” and “broken” promises”, and when it’s a Labor government the Murdoch press always joins in. Ho hum.
What percentage of the population do you reckon actually saw that show Chris? How many of them will firstly be swinging voters and secondly change their vote on the performance in one show? Come on, get real.
Easily counteracted if the government says:
1. We were a little busy dealing with a little thing called the GFC, you may have heard of it.
2. We ARE enacting our promises, but we are continually being obstructed by the Opposition Senators, even when we propose reasonable compromises (eg: ETS)
Just say it with a little less patronising than I did
Ratsars
That paper shows that as suspected the COALitions policy would cost $70 per ton CO2 not emitted but that there would still be no price on carbon. You’d think that could be rammed home to the public and they might wake up.
The 16% reduction would only be if Copenhagen’s successors can get the Annexe 1 countries to sign up, which looks doubtful. Without an agreement, our target is still 5%. I’d hope the Greens would vote for an ETS if there was an Annexe 1 agreement on 16% by 2020.
Andrew Robb just quoted Dick Warburton as if he is some expert on climate change. He actually knows nothing about the science of climate change, as he demonstrated on Lateline Business late last year:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/200912/s2759130.htm
Regarding the girl who asserted that the computers in schools programe was a broken promise, Rudd should’ve pointed out that the government was providing computers to schools in most need FIRST, i.e. schools that had the highest student to computer ratio.
He should’ve then said that the government doesn’t apologise to helping out those students in most need first.
Chris, 1392,Tony Abbot is a heartless right wing zealot posing as a christian and his finance minister is clearly unstable. You think Rudd got problems,come on now settle down.
So what are the Libs going to do with that schools computer roll out if they win? Stop it? Restrict it? What? The Libs problems are just beginning.
They have to fund their climate ‘policy’ from somewhere.
Most likely they will just not say what there cuts will be until the election campaign.
You mean at the very time people start taking any notice at all?
The CPRS vote with Turnbull’s floor-crossing can’t be far away. The third reading at the conclusion of the debate is in the program, but I don’t know how many speakers remain.
Bob @ 1375 Re: Pyne in Sturt
I agree that the election will be much closer than the 55-58 polls were predicting, but the latest Newspoll state by state breakdown shows a 6.6% swing to Federal Labor in SA, the highest in the country. Pyne and Sturt sit on a 0.9% margin.
You’re a native of SA (I gather), and I’m not, but any intel on this?
ShowsOn 1400
ROTFL – Dick Warburton is quoted by Andrew Robb as an expert on Climate Change, when he is a businessman and former chairman of Caltex Australia. We might as well ask tobacco companies if the tax on cigarettes is too high, or if there is any proof smoking is harmful.
Labor should give up trying to appease these people. They will never be satisfied till there is no ETS, and I doubt they vote Labor anyway. Swan (re)appointed Warburton to the Taxation board. Do we need one?
Tony Jones should watch his language when talking with the leaders of our country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs7rs3GCoJY
Of course up until then it will allow the government to come to their own conclusions on what the Libs will do with the program and they won’t be pretty.
DaveM – I hope they keep pushing this point. People forget so quickly once a crisis has passed. The Libs are doing everything they can to make the opposite points. If they can cut through so can the Govt. Send Julia G and Chris Bowen out – they’re terrific at cutting through.
Julia G was priceless in QT yesterday with the mouse pads. A very smart lady.
Tony Jones – not only Jones and not only to one side of politics.
They have no choice, else Labor will just run the line that their policy doesn’t do anything AND isn’t funded. George Megalogenis points out that the coalition’s climate ‘policy’ is the first time in about a decade that either major party has announced a completely unfunded policy.
GB 1410
The opposition obviously have no intention of increasing or indexing aged pensions, if they are opposed to more debt, won’t say what taxes will icnrease, and can’t admit to any cuts to reduce expenditure. Someone should warn greypower not to vote blue
Yeah,well it is a pretty big mistake to not fund a policy before announcing it.
I suppose, with their climate change policy, they’ll stop the rollout on the grounds that computers emit too much carbon.
dovif
You seem to have problems understanding what I typed. What part of Howard-Costello simply finished the job did you not understand?
Tony Jones – make that TTH.
I don’t think they seriously intend to follow through with the policy if they’re elected.
The Inner City Latte Sipping Lefties:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16t6mIZEQuA
Absolutely agree. The Libs vaudeville presentation has a shelf life and a short one. People do enjoy vaudeville for a while but tire easily of it. The Libs have problems when policy becomes the focus.
Well, that’s the other side of attack isn’t it? Rudd should be pointing out that all the Liberals and Nationals in the House, and many of them in the Senate were elected on a platform to pass an ETS. They haven’t done that, so why should any of their future climate policies be believed?
Whatever happened to the Labor “Whale Watch” program?
I don’t think they would pursue the ‘policy’ for the reason purported: ie to reduce carbon emissions.
They think the climate change thing is absolute crap.
They’ve trotted out their Great Big Joke as a strip of fly-paper to catch up any environmentally-sensitive people insane enough to consider voting their way.
Their real motivation for the ‘policy’, I’m confident, is the prospect of pork-barreling National and marginal Liberal electorates with billions of taxpayer dollars. They’ve got an outstanding tradition to continue – that of their idols, Howard and Costello….
Superglue a lump of charcoal onto each laptop and pay for them out of their CC fund, perhaps?
Sory, Stuffed up a few tags (above).
The maternity leave plan isn’t funded either, is it? Is it a plan o just a thought bubble from Abbott which Joyce will have to knock down because he can’t fund it.
SO – do you have a link for that Megalogenis piece, please
Probably the same thing that happened to Mr Rudd’s ‘meat axe’ that was to be used on the public sector.
And TTH voted Labor. LOL.
Michael Danby can say what he likes about Ms Neal, but the locals know the truth. I was saying she was a dud candidate before the 2007 election and may not win. The only reason she got to be the candidate was her husband’s factional power. Ended up she did win but it was very, very close, and Robertson is the most marginal seat. She then proceeded to flush her credibility and image completely with a pattern of unacceptable behaviour, and is now notorious throughout the electorate. She’s got to be a liability for 2010.
Surely the party would be better off with a cleanskin candidate. The Robertson branches seem to think so – haven’t heard any public support for Belinda from them, only calls for her to stand down in favour of Deb O’Neill.
I wonder what internal polling is saying. Maybe the party’s decision to leave the pre-selection to the local braches gives us the answer. That is, why ensure the loss of the seat with the head office imposition of Neal? How husband Della’s power has been eclipsed.
TTH
I suppose that leaves me as a cabernet sipping centrist
Perhaps we mislabelled urban academic types can respond with a few labels of our own for rural “intelligentsia”. How about:
“a brain like Barnaby’s”
“Townsville’s answer to Wilson Tuckey”
“pub-smart, not book-smart”
I know it is not PC to criticise peopel from the country for being, well, bumpkins. But lets face it, a lot of bush culture makes a virtue of stupidity. The sooner they admitted themselves that they are depended on the charity of city taxpayers to fund their economically unviable lifestyles, the sooner they might realise that they are no longer anything more than a historical curiosity in Australian politics. Of course, to know that, they would need to have passed high school maths, so I guess teh Truthies of this world will go on dreamign.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/political-swingers-in-this-election-year/story-e6frg7ex-1225826976869
Thanks SO – can always rely on George to write something of interest and without bias.
Wonderful political satire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNXfEpBuLrY&feature=player_embedded
Gary, Psephos and DaveM (1394 – 1398 11.17am- 11.23am),
1) Kevin Rudd is still popular, but the popularity is not as high as it was two years ago. Think about why.
2) Yes, every opposition accuses every government of breaking promises, and every opposition is right about this and will break its own promises when it becomes the government and thus contribute to the debasement of our democratic system, but that does not mean the tag does not stick.
3) Very few saw the show, but, as I have already said, Q&A is but an example and its effect is not restricted to those who saw it.
4) The government can refer to the GFC and opposition from the Senate (though the latter is a bit difficult when the Senate Opposition is trying to make the government keep its promise, such as on the health insurance rebate). However, the government is not doing these things.
Troothy
So your a right wing rotgut if we are left wing lattes
(c)
Chris c just wanted to say that I find your posts most informative especially on education. I think you gave the myschool a thumbs up overal, which i have as well from a parents point of view and from a school councilors point of view.
A PoO for “tedious repetition” on the member for Fisher. Apparently he said “great big new tax” 19 times. I thought it was more.
It should be pointed out that the Opposition is not opposing the private health changes because the Government is ‘breaking a promise’. They’re doing it because they’re ideologically opposed to the concepts of the bills. I’m sure the Opposition couldn’t care less if the Government broke promises that they didn’t mind being broken (for instance, abandoning action on climate change).
Wong v Hunt climate change debate on sky news now.
The problem with the inner city latte sippers is that they never leave their inner city apartments to come out here and see the real world. They also have a superiority complex much like the poster above who thinks because he goes to university he has all the worlds answers right from his comfy inner city apartment.
You can tell an inner city latte sipper from the following attributes:
1. They Hate White People
2. They hate White Peoples success
3. People of non-white background are always innocent
4. They know better then everyone else and anyone that disagree’s is a bigot
5. Their opinion is more important than any other voters
6. People do not have personal responsibility for their actions, especially non-whites, it’s always the governments fault
7. Australia should have an open immigration plan so we can turn into another Africa
8. Australians are the most racist people on Earth, only the white ones though
Billy (1402 at 11.35am),
Yes, the Opposition has its own woes, but I think it foolhardy for Labor supporters to so lose objectivity that they do not see the problems on their own side.
I would like Labor to have a crushing victory this year, not just a victory. Barnaby Joyce is doing his darnedest to give Labor to that crushing victory, but Kevin Rudd’s performance on Q&A is undoing Senator Joyce’s good work!
centaur 09,
Thank you. I try to be informative. I give MySchool half a tick, but I am concerned about the misuse it has already been subject to and the narrowness of the information currently on it.
TTH 1441
I take it the opposite of those false generalisations in fact represents your own prejudices? Thanks, the list is pretty much as I suspected
I take it by the “real world” you mean “your world”. Still I lived and worked in North Queensland for some years and think that counts. From that experience I can take comfort in the fact that your views are not even representative of the majority of north Queensland residents.
TTH perhaps it’s time to calm down a bit. Not everything in life is about race.
TTH 1441
PS – the mutual contradiction in your points 7 and 8 is hillarious.
And what would be the opposite of my “generalisations”
Guess what… they aren’t bigoted, and you just passed Rule Number 4.
What contradiction?
Itep,
Whatever the Opposition’s motives, it is holding the government to a promise, as it has every right to do.
Governments should at least attempt to keep their promises. Thus, Labor promised to increase the child care rebate. I think this is outrageous middle class welfare, but it was an election promise and the government should therefore do it (which it has). Labor promised not to means test the private health insurance rebate. I think the rebate should be totally abolished. However, the promise was to not means test it, so the promise should be kept.
I do not have any problem with Oppositions in the Senate voting against government election promises because senators have their own mandate. I supported Labor’s voting against all sorts of Howard government proposals on the same grounds. The Constituiton has a procedure for dealing with these conflicts. I think the procedure should be a referendum rather than a double dissolution but there is a procedure there for any government courageous enough to take it.
ltep@1445
We tend to place greater value on our own strengths.
The smart value intelligence.
The pretty value beauty.
The strong value strength.
When you’ve got nothing…
TTH,
I would hate to live in the inner city and I don’t drink lattes, but I know people who do, and they do not meet your attributes. You may be shocked to learn this, but there are Liberal voters who live in the inner city and drink lattes.
The best part from last night’s Colbert Report:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/colbert-sarah-palin-is-a_n_454744.html
I disagree. The opposition can’t on the one hand complain about debt, then on the other hand, oppose all government measures to save money.
When a government is elected it is elected to govern into the future, not pretend that circumstances don’t change from when they were elected.
Chris C – you sound like me. A nervous nellie about the election but I think the PM did very well on Monday night in an audience that was mostly very advantaged kids from Canberra colleges or the Uni.
Some questions were obviously Lib plants. The question on the computers in schools received a good answer to the kid about the promise for completion by 2012 or 14 (?) not by 2010. The answered was not listened to.
The girl who asked would she be able to get a job. What a silly question. She’d better look or work towards one just the way we all had to.
I was disappointed in a lot of the kids manner of asking the questions – they’ve been watching too much tabloid tv.
All in all – the people I have asked since Monday, who watched Q&A, were satisfied that both sides had done OK. I ask because when doorknocking later I want to know what is being said now.
Am I correct that one or two Liberal hack MPs accused Peter Garrett of murder(over the electrocution of the installation installers)?
Yep, another sign that Abbott and Minchin and Barnyard are taking their troops further into the gutter.
Wong Vs Hunt at NPC on Slynews Live.
BH
Evidently Rudd fluffed that answer and it was not a good answer at all.
During the campaign he said every kid would have a laptop within 4 years, ie 2011.
I love it when these right-wing idiots, who presumbably do not have to subside on less than $50 USD a month, walk miles to collect firewood or drink muddy contaminated water talk about the “real world.”
Criticising a demographic as though their vote is not as worthy?
True sign of a rabid right-winger with no respect for democracy.
Musrum 1450
Exactly; life’s losers are always the ones most in need of someone else to blame. Pauline Hanson and her ilk target “battlers” for a reason.
Should they really? Even if it is bad public policy? I don’t think so. They shouldn’t make the promises in the first place, and having made the promise, if they realise or concede it’s bad public policy then they should break it and wear the consequences.
Diogenes @ # 1399
Thanks for you comment.
That paper shows that as suspected the COALitions policy would cost $70 per ton CO2 not emitted but that there would still be no price on carbon. You’d think that could be rammed home to the public and they might wake up.
I think that it will be very hard to get the publicity need to push this home short of an election campaign. At the moment the MSM is very supportive of Abbott and is unlikely to publish (imo) such information. However an election campaign is completely different.
The 16% reduction would only be if Copenhagen’s successors can get the Annexe 1 countries to sign up, which looks doubtful. Without an agreement, our target is still 5%. I’d hope the Greens would vote for an ETS if there was an Annexe 1 agreement on 16% by 2020.
From my quick reading of the document it appeared to be saying that the conditions that the Government set out to be considered in respect of any increase the target above 5% may have already been met (?).
“Our most recent analysis of the international policy space suggests that the threshold conditions for Australia to move from its unilateral 5% target to a 15% target level may already have been met. “
My emphases.
However, it did say that there was a detailed analysis coming out in the future to verify that fact.
Am I correct in interpreting you post as saying that this is incorrect?
I was thinking that maybe Rudd and Wong would use this possibility of a target of 16% as a lever to prise the Greens from one side of the Senate Chamber to the other.
If I were a Green Member of Parliament I would have supported the ETS on all of its previous appearance in the Parliament. Considering that the Greens stayed fixed to those seats next to the Nats on each occasion then clearly my view is in no way aligned with theirs.
Therefore if we take the statement from Bloomberg on face value would the likelihood of an increase in the target to 16% be enough to move Brown et al across chamber?
Dio
Can you point me to that quote please. I didn’t hear that.
I thought they said they would start with years 9-12 first and then continue with the other years. I think he said on Q&A more than 200,000 have already been rolled out.
He said by the END of 2011.
Wong continues her impressive and most capable performance.
ShowsOn,
I am one of those rare beings who looks at each issue on its merits not on which side is proposing it. I can think of three circumstances in which a government can reasonably argue that it has had to break election promises – World War, Depression, pandemic (not the current swine flu panicdemic). In the case of the private health insurance rebate, the government is arguing that means testing is right, not that its hand has been forced by the GFC.
BH,
I’m not a “nervous nellie”. I do not have any doubt that Labor will win this year’s election – and the one after that. It seems to me that those arguing that Kevin Rudd did well on Q&A are Labor supporters, while those arguing he did poorly (other than I) are anti-Labor. Perhaps there were two Q&As, one beamed into Labor homes and one beamed into anti-Labor homes, and the wrong beam was sent my way.
Yes, the computer (not “laptop”) answer was clear but Mr Rudd plucked 2013 out of the air. It was f our-year promise, which we can begin with the first financial year.
I agree on the young woman who wanted a job guarantee. I wish Mr Rudd had just said straight up “No one can be guaranteed a job, but we have a stimulus package which has protected employment…’
I thought the format was good and it is a credit to Australian society that young people can get to question the prime minister live and uncensored and even critically. I just wish Mr Rudd would “make simplicity his talisman”.
Considering the Greens are at new polling trend heights, it looks as though the community is backing their decision to refuse an ETS that will entrench a policy that will do next to nothing to reduce carbon emissions.
No, but they can oppose measures that they disagree with. Of course, being a broken promise is a ridiculous argument for the Opposition to oppose the health insurance measure. According to that logic, they would support all the policies Labor took to the last election because they are promises they should be kept.
Unfortunately, promises given by the parties are unqualified, so people are entitled to expect all of them to be kept regardless of circumstances. The parties have only themselves to blame because they would jump on any attempt by their opponents to make promises more realistic and subject to economic conditions.
I live in a country town and I don’t drink coffee of any variety.
Diogenes,
Kevin Rudd never said “every kid would have a laptop”. He said schools would have computers for every year 9-12 student. NSW has chosen laptops. Victoria has not.
Here’s the report from when the policy was announced:
‘$1bn to create digital classrooms
‘EVERY student in years 9 to 12 will have access to their own school computer under a $1 billion Labor policy to bring classrooms into the digital world.
‘Under the National Secondary School Computer Fund announced yesterday by Kevin Rudd, high schools will be able to apply for up to $1 million to buy new computers or upgrade existing internet facilities.
‘The announcement was one of the few spending initiatives outlined in Labor’s campaign launch at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre. The $1 billion over four years would supply computers to about one million students, and schools would apply to upgrade their equipment every three years.’
(Justine Ferrari, The Australian, November 15, 2007)
(http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22761072-13881,00.html)
I think it fair to start the four years in 2008, the first year of government, and thus expect the $1 billion to be spent by 2012, not 2011.
Rudd really needs a huge improvement in his communication skills. He is making a rod for his own back with unnecessary waffle.
I just hope *someone* has a quite word to him about this and does it quick-time. His answer yesterday in QT to a question from Tony Windsor was woeful.
Itep,
If we follow your line of reasoning, parties can promise anything, get elected and then say we promised a bad public policy so we are not going to do ti now. That debases democracy.
Ratsars
Penny Wong had to put in the minimum target Oz would start bargaining at in Mexico or Germany or wherever and she put up the 5% target again on 31 Jan.
Bloomberg is arguing that there were enough commitments at Copenhagen and in its aftermath from Annexe 1 nations that Oz should commit to 16%. I don’t know whether that is true or not but Rudd-Wong disagreed. There certainly was a proposal that all Annexe 1 nations should commit to 15% (so I’m not sure where 16% came from) but it was never ratified although there was widespread agreement about it. The hope was that it would be this year.
The government HAS suffered massive fall in taxation revenue due to the GFC, so means testing the hand out to the private health insurance industry makes sense on revenue grounds alone.
How many promises kept vs how many promises broken and how does this compare with the first term of the Howard government, in which Abbott was involved?
BH,
There was never any promise to supply computers, much less laptops, at any time to any levels other than years 9 to 12.
393,000 have been funded. I don’t know how many have been insralled.
ShowsOn,
I have never seen a quote from Kevin Rudd saying “by the end of 2011”, but I am happy for you to supply me with one.
Governments have to govern based on the circumstances they are in, not the circumstances that existed when they were elected.
CC
Surely the 4 years starts from when you take Government which would be Nov 2011. Rudd said the promise was by “2013 or thereabouts”. That was definitely wrong.
Gary,
I don’t know, and I don’t have the time to go through every rock solid rolled gold iron clad promise ever made by everyone to see what was kept and what was not.
What is woeful about asking Tony to meet with the relevant minister to discuss his plan?
The Liberal scheme is a double joke. Hunt says their ‘direct action’ scheme would only exist for 10 years, and then they will probably shift to an ETS!
Why not just have an ETS immediately!?
Senate estimates said 154,000.
Chris Curtis, so let’s say Abbott is elected this year. Once elected he is informed that his CC policy indeed will be more costly and not allow us to meet the emissions cuts required. Should he then be tied to bad policy because it’s what he promised? Or should he go forward with the best public policy and explain it to the electorate?
I didn’t expect you would Chris but I reckon Labor will. It is relevant to counter the tactics of the opposition at the next election.
SO
Abbott is also going to commit to an ETS if Copenhagen’s successors agree to an ETS.
The logic escapes me.
ShowOn,
If the circumstances have changed, they have to argue a case based on the changed circumstances, not pretend they are not breaking a promise.
Diogenes,
The promise did not say “starting in 2007”. It is perfectly reasonable for a government to implement a financial promise over four financial years.
Hang on, so they now agree with a “massive big tax” being placed on people?
Hunt just blew the Libs argument out of the water surely.
HA HA
Greg Hunt just totally undermined Abbott’s campaign against “Labor’s Great Big New Tax”?
LMAO
Thanks for that info re computers ChrisC. I took it that it was a spending in the first budget, i.e. May 2008, so the computers will have to be rolled out by April 2012 at the latest to keep his promise.
Beats me about Kev and his waffle. He won an election with that waffle – has it only changed because Abbott (in particular) and the media having been telling us he is boring and waffly. Imagine if he said the stuff Abbott gets away with – the media would be on to him more than they already are.
Give me boring, waffly if you like but thank gawd we no longer have to listen to the monotonous, deceptive tones of John Howard and imagine how we’ll look internatinally if Tone gets to be PM. All that confected laughter and hubris hiding – what?!!
But Hunt is a moderate, like Hockey.
You might find that Hockey and Hunt go totally rogue in the next few weeks, particularly as Abbott is more content playing to the lunatic fringes of talkback radio(with his lieutenants Barnyard and Minchin).
Dio – I don’t think they can have a spend like that until the budget is passed. Psephos or someone else may be able to correct me on that.
Do you reckon Hunts comments will get a run in QT today?
I doubt it, if they were going to do that they would’ve gone to the back bench, which is what they should’ve done if they wanted to retain any credibility.
Diogenes,
Thank you.
Itep,
He should attempt to implement his election promise, and the rest of us can rely on the Senate to stop it. If he does not, he debases democracy. If I buy a car and the claims made about it are false, I can go to consumer protection. There is no such tribunal in politics, and I understand there cannot be, so it is the responsibility of all parties to get their promises right in the first place.
Gary,
Labor will no doubt do that, but all we end up with is tit-for-tat by two partisans accusing the other of doing what they do – and know they do – themselves.
The last Liberal government of Victoria got rid of more than 8,000 teachers, which was a cut in numbers of 6,787 effective full-time teaching positions. In the lead-up to the 2002 and 2006 elections Labor would tell us how many teachers “and staff” it had added to schools, the number ending up at 8,000. Now, that was not good enough for me. I wanted to know how many teachers had been restored as that was what was cut in the first place, so I did my own research and found Labor had restored 5,193 effective full-time teachers by the end of 2006. “8,000 teachers and staff” sounds better than “5,193 teachers”, but the latter is the relevant figure.
They should! He pointed out that the Liberal policy is an stop gap measure.
Yes but Adam, you’re not progressive, you’re from the Labor Right. You’d have been a Liberal 20 years ago.
Nothing wrong at all with that part. It was the rambling almost incoherent jumble that came after that. I knew what all the words he used meant. But the combination that he used them in came out like waffle to me. And *I’m on his side*.
He has to improve in this area.
The Liberal’s direct action would be enormously complex.
Can you imagine how long the legislation would be to determine when a company has cut emissions, and which companies get how much prize money?
So in other words you think you are superior to everyone else and that your views and vote is more important than anyone elses.
1451 – Chris Curtis
Hay, I resemble that remark!!!
All Labor needs to keep doing is replay or regurgitate excerpts from Turnball’s speech on Monday – arguably he put a better case in favour of an ETS than Rudd or Wong have so far done.
I’m sure though that today there’ll be a “Dorothy Dixer” for Combet, and he’ll bring up what Hunt said.
As Hunt has said, it will be a Ten Year Plan.
The Liberal Party has been nothing but a 65-year conspiracy to covertly bring Soviet-style command economics to Australia! Talk about deep cover…
Chris:
Franklin Roosevelt was re-elected in 1940 on a very clear promise to keep the US out of World War II. “I assure you again and again and again that no American boys will be sacrificed on foreign battlefields,” he said. So what should he have done when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Announced that he was bound by his 1940 promise and that therefore he would not declare war on Japan?
What you mean the non-bullshit, no holds barred, straight to the point questions?
Of course it takes many years of being an establishment suck up, leftwing hack and politician lapdogs to ask the questions in the form of the likes of the ABC and the corporate media.
BH,
The promise was to provide $1 billion over flour years. It is reasonable to allow time for the ordering, delivery and installation of the computers after the budget. The financial years are 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2011-12. The government has doubled the funding to $2 billion, which may be over a longer period
I don’t think that fact that Kevin Rudd can be boring and waffly makes his government a bad one. It is, in fact, a very good government and it will remake Australia. As I said in one of the very few letters from me that The Australian has published,
‘Irish herculean in change
‘Letters Blog | September 29, 2008 | 10 Comments
‘http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/irish_herculean_in_change/
…
‘IF Christopher Pearson had absorbed the information from his colleague David Uren a few pages earlier (“Mandarins with a market plan”), he would understand that the current federal Government is far more than a mind-the-store outfit. Following Labor’s narrow 1999 win in Victoria, Liberals told us that Labor had no policies and that the sky would fall in.
‘Steve Bracks just got on with the job, making the Upper House more democratic, investing in education and generally making Victoria a better place to live—and was rewarded with landslide victories in 2002 and 2006.
‘Some of the reformers who worked for him are now giving extra impetus to the Rudd Government. Anyone who thinks that it won’t be formidable by the next election really doesn’t understand politics. ?Chris Curtis ?Hurstbridge, Vic’
However, it does need to do a better hob in communicating what it is doing and be more upfront when things don’t go as planned. People are ready to forgive those who are honest about mistakes.
Chris, political reality mate. I like your sentiments but really do you think politics is pure or ever will be? You have an opposition (forget the party) that will use broken promises for political gain and have done and will do exactly the same thin in government. Be real please.
5000 more tham Kennett gave us. Not insignificant I would have thought.
American airmen sacrificed in the air over China was, however, a plan that he had been very keen to get going all through the later Thirties.
And fair enough. No-one else tried to help China against Japan’s…well, the word invasion makes it sound altogether too civilised, doesn’t it?
I don’t have a problem with Rudd’s communications skills.
Alas we’re living in the world of the 10 second soundbite, and Abbott constantly whining about “Great Big New Taxes” gets more airplay on the nightly TV news.
The Australian? Talkback radio? The ABC? LOL.
Hunt discussing the Liberal policy:
Lenore Taylor (The Australian)
Hunt:
So the Liberals are clearly going to consider introducing a giant new tax if they are elected.
Chris: don’t forget that the Coalition and Fielding and Xenophon in the Senate have been obstructing the passage of key Government legislation since 2007.
Chris wrote earlier that wars are one time politicians are allowed to break promises.
Psephos,
FDR is covered by one of my three exceptions – “World War”(1466)
Gary,
I know from the fact that I never got elected that politics will never be “pure”.
The biggest broken promise of this parliament is by far and away the Liberals refusing to pass the CPRS, which the government has a mandate for, and which the opposition said they supported.
Hunt doesn’t work well with the teleprompters, he looks like he is watching a tennis match.
Like Tony Jones and Kerry O’Brien?
Gary,
I said “people”!
Evan14,
I don’t regard obstructed legislation as a broken promise.
On the WW2 theme, I will return – but I won’t take as long as Douglas MacArthur.
That makes no sense. All of the Liberals and Nationals in the House, and nearly half of them in the Senate were elected on a policy of supporting an ETS. They have broken that promise.
Chris, sorry I didn’t see that. But why is world war an acceptable case of force majeur which entitles a government to change its policy, but a global depression is not? FDR was elected in 1932 on a policy of cutting government spending and balancing the budget. He did the exact opposite, and just as well. Labor’s platform in 2007 was framed in circumstances of high growth. The GFC surely made it highly irresponsible persist with policies which had been rendered unviable by changed circumstances.
I think Rudd must read blogs or Twitter a lot. He just called question time “QT”.
Who else am I disappointed in?
“Chainsaw” McFarlane, supposedly the architect of that deal Turnball did with Wong late last year.
Chainsaw has done in Turnball, all to keep his job as a Shadow Minister.
Thats a lot better Kev. Just keep that up.
Answering dixers about Barnyard’s stupidity is a free hit.
I sense a censure motion against Garrett coming up.
Is Hunt about to get turfed out by Jenkins?
Why do the Libs think they can get traction on insulation?
Sadly there have been 4 deaths.
1 from heat exhaustion, 1 from faulty electrical wiring, 2 from careless insulation installation (stapling into wiring). Surely it is the shonky insulation firms at fault?
Hockey should’ve been kicked for that completely absurd excuse for a point of order, especially considering he has been warned.
Vex contends this is what it would be like under a Greens regime.
http://www.vexnews.com/news/8176/the-green-police-what-bob-browns-regime-would-look-like/
Which everyone knows Peter Garrett is directly responsible for and the Liberals will be moving a motion to have Peter Garrett charged with murder ASAP.
The Economic credential of the Oppositions is in tattered because of Barnyard.
No I have made over $2000 this week however….
I have spoken to my associates who are actually running and doing the insulation program here in NSW. Their view is exactly that: A smaller number of “shonky operators” that is giving the program a bad name and not the fault of the Minister or the Govt.
Toothy, no wonder you are so cheap.
Kev seems to be having fun today at the expense of “Straight talkin’ Tone”
Tanner time
Yes please!
Is he wearing parachute pants like MC Hammer time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/10/2815591.htm
Don’t worry, PB Laborites say Rudd did well so it must be true, that’s that, end of the matter, case closed…
AWB admits it paid Saddam
http://www.smh.com.au/business/awb-admits-saddam-payments-20100210-nrf9.html
“Nothing short of embarrassing,” yep that’s Peter Van Onselen of the Australian.
Amigo Vera, some bludgers were upset about our “love-in”. Time for a divorce?
what is happening at crikey giving fee advice to tony why would i bother paying a sub come on crickey .
ruawake…
Hockey’s buffoonery today is pushing new boundaries.
This is a very funny piece on Barnaby!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/08/2812673.htm
The Opposition are a joke!
Pity the media spend all their time trying to convince us what a star Abbott is and that the Libs are good things to win the next election.
Seems like every night on the news they have Tone posing on his bike in his lycra suit with catty remarks about how Kev wouldn’t look as wonderful as him
Hockey has to walk a careful line, he can’t be seen to be undermining Abbott in anyway, even though he obviously can’t stand him.
i read all the comments that Eric some one wrote in one of the papers and most disagreed.( he was a journalist somewhere) i am so fed up with the papers will not allow them in the house.
they let joyce get away with what he said imagine the damage that could of been done if people in our trading block thought this was true.
i was worried about the supperannuation and shares but no mostly got away with it.
imagine if Tanner had said this.
I am starting to wonder whats going on , O for the days when journalist just wrote the stories and we decided so sick of opionions.
Finns
Hell No! Stuff em all
Us amigos will go on lovin; 
Some in the media want to portray the government as being “worried” about the opposition since Abbott took over. I’m yet to see any worried government member in QT.
we tried last year to get some insulation up and not in the free round before that
and no one wanted to do it because our house is quite hard to get in to.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/garrett-backflips-on-insulation-safety-checks/story-e6freol3-1225828783246
Am I too late?
Hear, hear mysay – I gave up them up a couple of years ago and only read a few that are linked here.
There’s always time for your Liberal trollery, bob
LOL! The News Ltd. press is hilarious. AdelaideNow version:
The Australian version:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/garrett-bows-to-50m-check-on-homes-installed-with-foil-insulation/story-e6frgczf-1225828781483
I think today has been their best day, possible because they haven’t talked about the CPRS.
Jenkins:
Tuckey:
The face of Modern Liberalism is Bronwyn Bishop.
Why did Julie Bishop have to in to bat for Wilson and Bronnie? Aren’t they old enough to look after themselves?
VP
In your statement is the clue
The interesting thing is the tactics that the Liberals take to Gillard. They can’t handle her answers, so they just take constant points of order. During Shaquille O’Neil’s prime, this was known as Whack-a-Shaq. No player could defend O’Neil, so they simply fouled him and hoped him missed his free throws.
Of course, Gusface! They’re too old to look after themselves.
TheTruthHurts@1500
No. If you are aware of the bias you can counteract it. I would slot under “smart”, so a good strategy for getting a bit of perspective on the real value of intelligence would be to find a place where ostensibly intelligent people make absolute tools of themselves…
I’ve had better luck than Diogenes with his lamp.
The Minister for Sport is in Brisbane today. The floral dress of the Minister for Health is not nearly as natty but, hey, you can’t have everything.
The Libs really don’t have any tactics, they hope and pray.
Interesting that the Libs have given up om it. To me it shows they are a one trick pony.
ruawake
,blockquote>Why do the Libs think they can get traction on insulation?
Sadly there have been 4 deaths.
1 from heat exhaustion, 1 from faulty electrical wiring, 2 from careless insulation installation (stapling into wiring). Surely it is the shonky insulation firms at fault?
Re stapling into wiring ?? With batts? We (2 adults, 1 kid) batted c1975 (Gold Batts) but batts & batt installment hasn’t changed since. All one had to do was (a) measure the width & length between ceiling joists (b) order the correct size/s (c) cut some to fit around chimneys etc (d) push them into place. We ran the extension light off a power phase separate from the one in the ceiling so the circuit was disabled.
Unless the insulation wasn’t batts (or any of other similarly-installed type, or the “spray-in” type) I can’t see how anyone would use staples!
As for faulty electrical wiring. I don’t know how many states offered the electrical check package. For c$75 a sparkie came round, checked wiring, installed the safety switch, fixed bum powerpoints & left a few (?3) e-lights. One’s mad not to have the wiring checked often!
If that house’s still covered by the builder’s warranty, s/he is liable. It should also have have the type of power box safety trip switch (forget the exact name) that immediately cuts off if that happens – inQ they’ve been compulsory for yonks. If the house is so old it had no switch, the liability is the householders’ (who should have installed one), and the employer who failed to check the electrical wiring before the job started. Every builder/ plumber etc I know has a little meter (too lazy to go to the garage for a more accurate term) to check for that – we do & we’re DIY!
So none of the deaths is the Government’s fault; it’s installer’s or builder’s, or householder’s. Unless, as I said, the insulation IS of a type that needs to be stapled into place.
re the bit by lenore taylor please pass this on to your labor member of even ring the p.,m office i worry that things like this may be over looked
Well he seems to be saying is that we will introduce the same as you latter.
wasn’t it hunt who did one of his uni papers on the ETS.
But no matter what we say it has to get in the papers.
i wonder if the papers are tyring to turn us off q/t because really thats the only place you see the truth
Roy Orbison
Just caught up on your posts bagging my good self.
And to think you once told me you were Roy Asotasi.
You wish
sorry i meant to say the same as the gov would later
Joe is getting apoplectic. Lindsay will slaughter him.
Hasn’t Joe been warned allready?
I know the government dominates QT anyway (that’s how it works) but this has been a very poor effort by the Libs today.
Did Jenkins just eject someone without even bothering to interrupt Rudd’s answer?
Yeah that was cool.
The Member for Bowman.
The APH website is down for me.
I think it is the group Anonymous who have been DDOSing government websites for most of the day to protest the internet filter.
“Joyce is sounding more and more like Jo Bjelke-Petersen every day apart from Jo’s coherence and mathematical prowess”. – Emerson.
http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/
working OK for me since 3PM.
Interesting. I noticed delays earlier too. Well, they’ve made their point and can lay off now. The filter is hardly the fault of APH. It’s not the government’s website.
Why is Hockey interjecting “be careful about China”? What’s his problem?
Yes, that works, but not elsewhere, such as Live Minutes.
Good point. Labor’s website loads fine for me.
Clive Palmer is all over the place with this iron *deal* and the story keeps changing.
A US $60 B deal and he cannot get the name of the company he is dealing with right and his on again off again hong kong IPO is now not a goer..
Mmmm. Has the odor of white shoes to me.
Clive Palmer is a charlatan. He constantly refers to himself as a Professor even though he has never been a professor. The guy has problems.
The vote on the ETS will be tomorrow going on what Combet just said.
That makes sense, so it is ready for the Senate for the next sitting.
Abbott could give Mugabe a call and see whether he is in the market for someone who could help Zimbabwe with its financial management.
Re Palmer, The World Today had an article. Anna Bligh is not backing away from Palmer and claims she has seen a document purporting to validate the statements of Palmer. Further, they had an analyst experienced in dealing with China who thought the whole thing might be a cultural misunderstanding.
Could be a cock up.
Last night the Dow was up 150 points, about 1.5%.
All Ords opened strongly and advanced about 1.5% in the first hour. Its been downhill all the way since and is currently down 0.8 of a point (ie not 0.8%).
Only 6 mins before mkt closes.
Combet had a go at Joe for sitting in on Turnbull’s speech on Monday but allowing himself to be used as the 3rd man in the leadership challenge to scuttle Turnbull’s ETS agreement with the govt.
The WT story.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2010/s2815498.htm
If Abbott explodes during QT it will be in response to goading by one or more of the Labor wymyn.
I choose Roxon as the person most likely.
Today in QT Abbott was rattled. I think the pressure has got to him. Expect an increase in stupid claims about government business as he tries to deflect attention from his personal unsuitability to the job and his party’s policy disarray.
Yes, I heard that too. The symbolic crossing of the floor from Turnbull. I don’t think anyone else will go with him. But it won’t be in vain if it encourages Troeth and Boyce in the Senate.
More
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Palmers-faux-pas-pd20100210-2HQWQ?OpenDocument&src=sph
I seem to remember this IPO was on again off again last year as well.
Palmer was spruiking 70,000 jobs. Here today, gone tomorrow.
He would by my sort of choice to finance heavily a political party.
triton,
I get “waiting” for aph.
I find it hard to get excited about $60 billion worth of coal exports.
dave and others,
That Business article was this morning. The WT story was lunch time. Might be best to wait until Palmer’s next clarifying press conference later today.
DoS by blocking won’t get them far (except for personal satisfaction and negative publicity). They should try bulk e-mails to parliamentarians with cogent cases.
Well, you’re not a Premier of NSW or Qld, are you?
According to the Twitter feed of QT at The Drum, the opposition missed a question. It certainly hasn’t been a good day.
Here’s a report from palmer’s press conference.
Seems he is sticking with his claims.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/10/2815791.htm?section=australia
confessions,
Confirmed.
Tanner about to be interviewed on Sky.
Not share of the veracity of the poll but published results indicate the vast majority of people are backing the Government’s filter proposal on the internet.
“A poll this week by McNair Ingenuity Research for the state broadcaster found 80 per cent of the 1000 respondents backed the filter plan, which was strongly opposed by free speech groups”.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/hackers-protesting-against-a-proposed-internet-filter-that-targets-pornography-shut-down-federal-government-website/story-e6frf7jo-1225828766740
ShowsOn 1600
Well export to China is driving Rudds economy
On the one hand Rudd is trying to look green to the electorate
On the other hand Rudd cannot wait for Palmer’s $60 bil of Coal, BHP and RIO’s export of Coal, Aluminum (very energy intensive) etc to refuel his coffers for his next spending spree …. laptops, NBN, statute in dedication to RUdd, and there will need to be another round of school halls in 2 years
Chairman Rudd are many things to many people, you will grow to love his $60 billion worth of coal
Craig Emerson summarises Hockey’s though processes:
Iron ore I can handle, but coal doesn’t excite me much.
a) Howard’s Tampa stance received about 80/20. A majority doesn’t make something right, nor is being populist good government.
b) I don’t believe for a second that 80% of Australians support it, nor do I believe the vast majority actually know what the implications are.
You’re welcome to stop being a Labor stooge at any time.
Stupidest ABC headline ever:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/10/2815605.htm
Pro-porn? Try Anti-censorship. I didn’t think the ABC was so desperate for page hits.
It would depend entirely on how the question was framed.
* “Are you in favour of the government stopping child porn flooding into every home?” would get a 99% yes.
* “Are you in favour of Senator Conroy deciding what you can see on your own computer in the privacy of your home?” would get a 99% no.
So what was the question in this poll?
Will be very interesting to see what the chinese have to say.
Julia Wood, a really hot but ditzy reporter on SkyNews said that Clive Palmer claims “three and a half (mining) agreements have firm signatures.”
How can an agreement be half signed?
Wood is the one on the left:
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/06/28/15210535_gallery__600x400.jpg
Exactly the same thing, China drove the howard economy.
And howards CPRS scheme is basically the same as Rudds.
I’d have gone with Pro-porn protesters PWN prudish pollies
Dave, dovef has already said he doesn’t believe Howard was being honest about implementing an ETS.
Psephos,
I agree. Hopefully, someone can find out more about the questions, the sample and the people commissioning same. However, this poll was quoted within the article and just caught my eye. It’s certainly antithetical to a number of posters on PB.
Maybe the earnest anti filterites view on PB may not represent the general view of the community.
Boerwar
reports of your leaving PB were a tad premature??
GG
Your @1621 is bound to have poss leaping from the treetops
If you access the internet via an ISP you are already being censored. Get over it.
Diogenes @ # 1473
There certainly was a proposal that all Annexe 1 nations should commit to 15% (so I’m not sure where 16% came from) but it was never ratified although there was widespread agreement about it. The hope was that it would be this year.
Accordingly to Bloomberg the 16% is the ”volume weighted average of developed country targets as outlined in Annex I of the Copenhagen Accord
Accordingly to Bloomberg the current targets for developed countries are as follows-
EU 12% on 2000 levels
US 16% on 2000 levels
Japan 29% on 2000 levels
Australia 5% on 2000 levels
This gives a weighted average level of 16% on 2000 levels.
However, this does not make sense to me because in the same document they say the US target is 17% on 2005 levels that equates to the 16% on 2000 levels. The change in he target over those 5 years (ie a decrease of only 1%) throws some doubt on these figures in my opinion. There is also the agruement that Ron has put forward a number of time that when you compare the US targets against Australia’s on a similar basis it is 3% US and 5% Australia.
From the ABC:
The ABC is quoting selectively. It would be interesting to see the full “statement.”
Alexander Downer is on the board of Palmer’s mining company.
Fair enough. In truth, he was *honest* about very few things.
Not doing his job in Cyprus. Is that why Ban had to go there and do it for him?
This has been around over a week
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/28/australian-censor-bo.html
What a load of cobblers
I’m fairly certain DDoS attacks are illegal under the Cybercrime Act. What protesters think they can manage via criminal activity is beyond me.
They get attention, which is what they crave above all else.
Plus they must be using a bot-net to do it, they are probably paying organised crime figures for this.
They are doing their cause more harm than good. A bit like Greenpeace and Sea Shephard.
ltep@1632
And proof that the those who are anti-censorship have lost the PR battle by confirming to the wavering general public that the Govt MUST act to protect the net from such nasties.
Well, the Japan fisheries minister is considering reducing whaling in the Antarctic, because it generates so much bad publicity:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/09/2814348.htm?section=justin
Frank
Hear Hear!
It is completely impossible to stop DDOS attacks from occurring with the current internet system.
Bollocks – switches detect it and reject requests. Its not like it used to be where the server was flooded with requests. I bet the sites that “anonymous” tried to bring down were still accessable from say the USA or UK.
That is precisely the point – the government is not so acting.
Thus, it is not a pro-porn v anti-porn issue. The porn will continue to be available, but censorship via a secret list will flourish with Conroy’s filter.
Hang on a second.
Civil disobedience is a long recognised form of protest against the state. It’s partly what J.S. Mill was talking about when he railed against the tyranny of the majority and the right of people to resist.
It’s pretty hard to come up with a serious form of civil disobedience that would not entail breaking the law.
There McNair question:
“Are you in favour or not in favour of having a mandatory government filter that would automatically block all access in australia to overseas websites containing material that is refused classification?”
In favour: 80%
Not in favour: 19%
Unsure: 1%
http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/access-denied
Gandhi would disagree I hazard
Thanks Dario
Seems a pretty fair question.
Except for the fact that hardly anyone knows what determines a Refuse Classification ruling, and that the criterion changes with very little input from the public.
Gusface, assuming you’re replying to me, which bit would he disagree with? I guess you mean about breaking the law? In which case you would be wrong.
Take a look at the wikipedia page for starters. He broke the law in South Africa, for starters, when:
Same for books, movies, etc.
The advocates of a censorship free internet must also support no censorship in other forms of media.
I can’t believe that my house was just about to be hit with a storm to end this string of 35 degree days, and then it just vanished on the radar, I guess because it evaporated before hitting the ground.
Rewi
Heavy man, I was referring to this bit in particular
I am intrigued by what you mean Serious?
Yep. The anti-filterites won’t be happy. They might get a little solace from the other question McNair asked, but that’s probably something that the Government may be willing to compromise on anyway:
“If a mandatory internet filter is established, are you in favour or not in favour of the community being advised which websites have been refused classification and the reason why they have been refused classification?”
In favour: 91%
Not in favour: 8%
Unsure: 1%
http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/access-denied
I was pointing out that the classification system is essentially corrupt. I don’t find the argument “but it is equally corrupt for all media” a compelling argument.
Oh please
The true Gandhian breaks the law to make a political point, but then takes full responsibility for their actions by accepting whatever punishment follows. In India in the 1930s Gandhian protesters walked calmly towards police armed with lathis (machetes mounted on long poles), and allowed themselves to be struck down, in some cases being killed, row after row. Gandhi himself turned himself in to the authorities and accepted imprisonment.
Your lack of an argument is duly noted.
Dario,
Good get with that survey information.
Seems Conroy is a genius in understanding popular opinion on such matters as the internet filter.
Judge Drwoler went:
Greeny, that poll would be spot on. Absolutely spot on.
As someone who thinks this is complete and utter bullshit devised by an arseclown, this poll would be spot on.
Never underestimate the willingness of the citizens of this country to put their boot on the throat of their fellow Australians when it comes to dictating what they should be allowed to see, hear and do.
In fact, the only example in the history of this country where we have ever collectively said “Fark off” to this sort of acceptance of the State demanding what we can see, hear or do, was with the referendum of 1951 on banning the communist party. Only the well resourced union movement propaganda campaign prevented the “Yes” case from winning (and let’s be brutally honest here, it was only the propaganda that defeated it, and then only barely – very very barely).
Of all the nations in the western world, Australia and the United States stand out as the two where their population is the most willing to place statutory limits on the consumption patterns and beliefs of their fellow citizens. What makes it superficially *look* different (and that is all it is) is that the US has first ammendment constitutional rights and that they are much more open and hysterical when debating it because of those constitutional rights.
In Australia, we have none. This country does not even debate these issues – the overwhelming majority accept that their fellow citizens need to have their behaviour curtailed to reflect a very very conservative intepretation of “the norm”.
Personal beliefs on religion, personal beliefs on the wisdom of the state and a general pursuit of conformity of behavioural norms – regardless of the consequences of *any* intellectual and political analysis – dominates Australian political life when it comes to the crunch.
It has always been the case here.We are a very, very politically juvenile nation.
I fully aknowledge as someone who was always going to be on the losing side of this argument that popular opinion was always going to support this bill. This is Australia, it was always going to happen this way.
I am just dismayed that more of you on this forum – a forum containing a politically aware demograpahic – had an inability to put your religious beliefs, your statist beliefs and your party beliefs aside, to take an honest look at how easily we, as a body politic, not only accept the state and the party of choice telling us what we should do, but ignoring all empirical reality of the technology along the way.
You folks are great and I loves youse all -but fair dinkum, too many of you guys will bend over and be shafted on serious issues of liberty without even a whimper.
Fracking Shame.
Sorry Greeny – meant Judge Growler!
Gusface,
By ‘serious’ I mean a form of civil disobedience that is more likely to be effective in achieving a goal of preventing or overturning the enactment of a perceived tyrannical law. Perhaps ‘serious’ is a peculiar way to construe this, because it’s highly likely that all those who engage in civil disobedience are ‘serious’ about their objective.
For example, even the slightest act of civil disobedience, such as a person protesting outside an office building or Parliament, is likely to contravene a law. Quite likely, police and governments will let such things slide because there is no real harm caused by the civil disobedience.
Calculated, targeted civil disobedience would, I think, be illegal almost by definition. Indeed, the first two sentences of the relevant wikipedia entry phrase it in such terms:
Lol, I’m afraid your pathetic attempt to dismiss the poll that utterly detroys the anti-filterite brigade’s hopes was argument enough
Where did the last two world wars start poss?
It is a ludicrous question because the basic assumption in it is that the filter will do something it won’t; that is, block all access to material refused classification. Additionally, I wonder how many of the respondents knew the definition of ‘refused classification’ ? Did they know that most of such material is legal? Why would 80% of people want a total ban on material that is legal?
I recall a Galaxy poll at the end of last year that didn’t ask a question that included a vague term and a false premise, and it found that over 90% of people didn’t want the government in control of what their kids saw on the internet, but wanted that control themselves. That doesn’t tally with the Hungry Beast’s poll
Cheers rewi,pseph
I understood that gandhi advocated non violent peaceful protest that was legal where possible.
I refer specifically to him spinning his own cotton for own garments as a n example
but perhaps I was wrong
I didn’t dismiss the poll at all. I just pointed out that I doubt the respondents ACTUALLY know what “Refuse Classification” means in a technical OFLC sense, and moreover, I doubt everyone would agree to the shifting criterion for RCing something.
But hey, given the simplistic way this issue has been debated here, I’m not surprised that people don’t want to confront the fact the OFLC process, which the filter will rely on, is essentially corrupt and not based on evidence of what actually may harm people.
The U.S. are way ahead of us. All the films they show at cinemas are classified, but it is done by an industry body run by the major distributors, NOT by a government body. If the body, called CARA, refuses to classify a film, it can STILL be shown at art house cinemas. Whereas under our bureaucratic system, the film is banned NOT explciitly, but by DEFACTO, in the sense it can not be distributed!
Yes, but he also advocated breaking unjust laws. The making of salt was a government monopoly in colonial India. So Gandhi led a huge march across India to the sea, and made salt by hand in symbolic defiance of the law. He then reported himself to the police as having broken the law, thus putting the British in the position of having either to arrest him or to accept the breaking of the monopoly. An essential part of the Gandhian philosophy is accepting the consequences of one’s actions.
No, that was just him saying that Indians should reject capitalism, which at the time was considered synonymous with colonialism.
Dario went:
In regimes that believed in the wisdom of the state and the need to control the behaviour of their fellow citizens at a level that we in Australia do.
Possum
Very well said. I too have been amazed by the apparently fundie conservatism of some around here with an uncritical acceptance of this Christian lobby inspired grasp at a new (or, rather old) level of censorship, which will do nothing to acieve its stated purpose of saving the kids.
However, I’m less pessimistic than you about this poll, which is a crock. It doesn’t fit with others, with less dense questions. I say if people understand what Conroy’s plan actually does, and the reasons he introduced it, they will reject it.
Possum
The internet is already filtered, ISPs use products like Trend Micro’s Network Reputation Services, there are black lists, grey lists, and black holes.
Most know nothing of these. My leukaemia support site was blocked from Australia and Japan because some idiot decided to do it. It took me 6 months to figure out a US carrier had decided it should nuke the IP.
I changed host, but to my surprise iinet had already decided I was a spammer, it took two months for them to accept they were wrong.
I would much rather have the Govt do this stuff than ISPs who are accountable to no-one and never admit they make mistakes.
When was the last film (apart from porno) to be denied classification in Australia? I believe it was Pasolini’s Salo well over a decade ago.
Possum,
Who’s the extremist now?
As I said from the ouset of this debate, the argument is twofold:
1. Whether it is possible
2. Whether it is desirable.
The first is a technical issue which I claim no particular expertise except to say there those who say it can be easily circumvented and those who say it can’t. Those who would actively break the law are alledgedly quite numerous atm when they don’t know the penalties that would occur were they caught. They may not be as brave when the crunch comes.
The second comes back to one’s opinion about whether the internet is a type of wild west adjunct to the real community or a mainstream part of society that should be subject to the same censorship restrictions as other media. At the end of the day I support the mainstream view.
Personally, I see your rant as amusing but a serious over reach of what the consequences would be. But, I’m sure that’s not going to stop you.
Yes, Australia is just like Nazi Germany, ho hum. Argumentum ad Hitlerum, and a particularly silly example of it.
pseph, shows
ta for the responses.
ruawake@1669
And Ironically they are one of the most vocal opponents of the Filter.
They must have a large collection of kitchen utensils to deal with
Quite right: those who undertake such protests do so accepting the risk that civil disobedience will most likely entail peacefully submitting to subsequent prosecution by the state. Or, to use Psephos’ example, being beaten or shot.
Greensborough Growler@1671
Totally agree, if one cannot go into Kmart to buy material which is refused classification then why should it be available online ?
Next they will be calling for Kiddie porn to be shown on FTA Television.
No Adam, you’re being a superficial dickhead.
This isnt about Hitler, this is about Australia and our willingness to let the state make decisions and mistakes on our behalf by pandering to our apathy, ignorance, and political partisanship.
Psephos (1520 at 2.00pm),
Depression was another of my three exceptions that may justify a government’s breaking an election promise, but the case still has to be argued.
Of course, the government will be condemned for breaking promises it has never made too, as the latest bout in the false “one pc/laptop for every kid/student right now” myth shows:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/tips_for_wednesdat_february_10/P60/
If you put my name and “isobar” (or “curious” or “laptops”) into the search facility on the Andrew Bolt site, you will find dozens of references to the same fact-free claims and the same patient repetition of evidence. You may wonder why I bother. It is not to convince those I correct but for the information of those readers of that site who retain some rationality. I think there has been a reduction in the frequency of the false claims over the past year, but I do expect them to resurface occasionally for years to come.
If McNair had added “even if the site contains material that has not been refused classification” the result may have been a little different.
Two questions, with no in-built assumptions, would have been even better.
No Adam, you’re being a superficial d*i*ckhead.
This isnt about Hitler, this is about Australia and our willingness to let the state make decisions and mistakes on our behalf by pandering to our apathy, ignorance, and political partisanship.
I haven’t followed their recent rulings closely, but some I recall from the last decade:
Baise Moi (2002) was released as an R18+ film, then the classification was revoked 1 week later after the federal attorney general appealed the classification:
Here is the initial R classification:
http://oflc.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/d853f429dd038ae1ca25759b0003557c/784e7259102cbd63ca25767100795235!OpenDocument
Here is the RC ruling,
http://oflc.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/d853f429dd038ae1ca25759b0003557c/d82166ba2f6e6d66ca257671007a5bab!OpenDocument
Ken Park (2003) was Refused Classification outright:
http://oflc.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/d853f429dd038ae1ca25759b0003557c/6960f6ce40dbfe94ca2576710078c3b8!OpenDocument
The Sydney film festival asked for a special allowance to screen Ken Park, but that was refused as well.
Possum Comitatus@1679
Bulldust – Every Counter argument has invoked it and China.
Pull the other other one – it plays Deutschland Du Land Der Treue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvO7HRI7ugA
Psephos,
I’m with you on the absurdity of comparing Australia with Nazi Germany. It reminds me of an old ABC program, a long-ago precursor to Q&A, about morality and politics, in which Brian Harradine wanted to talk about social justice and Catharine Lumby was obsessed with the right to watch porn. If no one else sees the connection, fine – I’ll go back to the Andrew Bolt Forum and do another post re computers.
That should have read:
“It reminds me of an old ABC program, a long-ago precursor to Q&A, about morality and politics, in which Brian Harradine wanted to talk about social justice, and Catharine Lumby was obsessed with the right to watch porn.”
The coma makes the difference as Brian Harradine did not want to talk about Catharine Lumby.
It’s still confusing to me Chris. Is the point that Conroy is the new Harradine?
I have nothing against porn, in fact I worked for Mature Media in Canberra makin’ smut movies for John Lark.
The thing the gives me the irits is that the internet is already cencored in Australia and nobody gives a stuff about it.
I would much rather have a Govt agency to complain to than an unaccountable ISP or an ATT tech who stuffed up his router tables.
Rua went:
Yours might, to varying degrees – but nothing like what is being proposed. If you want a clean feed at the moment – a clean feed where fair dinkum child pr0n is filtered – plenty if ISP’s offer it. I’m on one. But it’s not ACMA’s bullshit black list.
The probs you have with your ISP filtering are not going to get better with government involvement. It’s going to get worse as the least competent and resources people take over the system from those that actually know what they are doing.
Internode is a case in point. An ISP where you get what you pay for.
Adam, in 2009 – the non porno films banned by the OFLC were:
Matinee
Salo (again)
Nobody Is Perfect
Faces of Death 2
Faces of Death 3
Saddam Husseins Execution Video
Darling (Hentai)
Hooligan (Hentai)
Spotlight(Hentai)
My Borthers Wife (Hentai)
70K
Welcome to Greensborough (One for you Greeny!)
… and I’m a fraction of the way through the list.
Greeny,
Is it possible to stop child pr0N? Not with this filter.
Is it desirable – certainly, but this filter wont do three fifths of five eighths of sweet frak all.It doesnt deal with P2P, IRC, IM, let alone email and the plethora of direct connections. That’s where illegal stuff exists. What Conroy is proposing, 95% of the stuff it blocks will not, at law, under any definition of Australian law, be defined as “illegal”
And no – you’re spot on Greeny, it won’t stop me being dismayed at how easily some of you folks are willing to leap into this.
Frank went:
And so what?
Here’s an opportunity for a bit of misplaced nationalism. The A-G has presented the Morant pardon petition to the Queen. I hadn’t thought it would get this far:
“those who believe Kitchener wanted Morant and Handcock shot to discredit their claims that he had ordered the execution of prisoners, to facilitate peace talks with the Boers, and to appease Germany, which was considering entering the war.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/britain-to-examine-the-conviction-of-breaker-morant-20100209-npt0.html
It could be an interesting legal review, but they’ll need some evidence that Kitchener approved illegal actions such as the killing of prisoners, I’d say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYXczlVlLyY
A very effective ban, that one.
You just broke the law!
In fact, that LINK would probably be on the ACMA block list.
Adam went:
Exactly!!!
You specifically said that the regimes which started World War II (ie, Nazi Germany), “control[ed] the behaviour of their fellow citizens at a level that we
in Australia do.” This is just nonsense.
And the shares of this company are trading at more than $0.00? Amazing!
I don’t have a problem with Net censorship if it was limited to just items that have/would be refused classification, or is involved in illegal activities. But Conroy has admitted that much more would be banned and we won’t be told what these are. Even if I believed that he was as pure as driven snow and wouldn’t think of abusing the system, I have no faith that future ministers will all be so pure of heart. For example, I’d be very concerned if some members if the current Opposition ever gained control of such capacity in government.
Better turn yourself in to the authorities, Psephos.
Can someone explain WHY that footage is banned? And if that footage is banned, what about the execution of Ceausescu (which the ABC played late last year). Why isn’t that banned?
I’m opposed to banning videos of people being executed. I’m in favour of a fully public list of things which are refused classification, and full transparency of the process for classifying things. To the extent that the current proposal doesn’t provide for that, I’m opposed to it. I’m not opposed to the principle that the internet should meet the same content standards as any other kind of communications medium available to the public.
The point is, what the HELL do the OFLC think they are doing banning that footage?
And why are they banning films that in similar countries like the U.S. and U.K. and even New Zealand are freely available on DVD and can even be shown at cinemas?
Why are our idiot bureaucrats so out of touch with the classification systems in other countries?
If one of my friends is to be believed, possibly because close examination would reveal that it wasn’t really Saddam.
psephos
That makes the point very well as to the impossibility of ‘blocking’ international material. Conroy’s proposed internet “bans” won’t stop child prOn on Australian computers, but has potential to target other less ubiquitous and insistent content, of say, an anti-religious or political bent (no pun there) that Harradine and the DLP wouldn’t have liked, or that the Christian lobby doesn’t like.
Romania is the only state to have formally executed two heads of state in the 20th century.
Antonescu
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DtuOsecaN9lE%26feature%3DPlayList%26p%3D3641EA22228C6DA5%26playnext%3D1%26playnext_from%3DPL%26index%3D20
Ceaucescu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKyO2G8kGM0
Adam went:
In response to a Dario’s question:
All state sanctioned atrocities that came from a governance system that had even partial democratic tendencies, only existed because the population believed and accepted the wisdom of the state mostly unquestioningly, regardless of any philosophical and practical questions of “liberty”.
We aren’t talking about magnitudes of human depravity here Adam, we’re talking about the common theme of statist stupidity.
The question of whether it is POSSIBLE to ban various things is not relevant to the debate about whether it is DESIRABLE to try to do so.
The problem is the classification code contains a clause allowing the release of media if it has “artistic merit”. This creates absurd contradictions, because the OFLC has banned films that feature actual sex, but then for some reason, a film like 9 Songs that also features actual sex is released as R18+, which the S.A. attorney general then banned in S.A. by unilaterally changing the rating to X. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411705/
There is no consistency, because the OFLC SOMETIMES lets artistic judgments veto other aspects of the classification code.
My problem with that is that “artistic merit” it is completely subjective criterion. The purpose of classifying media should relate to HARM, what will HARM a minor if they view it? And moreover, adults should be allowed to judge that for themselves.
Classification is DIFFERENT to identifying child pornography, which is a CRIMINAL matter because it involves the exploitation of a minor. Unfortunately our classification system conflates these two issues. I think the people who are classified Avatar should be DIFFERENT from the people who determine what constitutes child pornography. As it stands, we have the same people doing both, which means films that are freely available to 18 year olds in other liberal democracies are sometimes banned in Australia.
If Conroy’s filter is introduced it will make stuff all difference, people who want to view stuff will find a way to do it.
What it will do is stop ISP’s from deciding what to block. But thats OK everyone loves their ISP ( except maybe Bigpond ).
The outrageous claims of some are bollocks, they are similar to Greg Hunt supporting “direct action”.
Adam went:
Er…. yes it is when it comes to legislation. The last time I looked, not only was politics the art of the possible, but a law that pisses into the wind carries more costs than benefits
ruawake@1705
Yet these same naysayers are the first to demand that their ISP employ a spam filter which may catch the odd legitimate email, and to block & prosecute those who do send said emails.
The beggars are too lazy to use the delete key and/or install their own filter.
The Hypocrisy they employ is breathtaking
Interesting result from an Agepoll on Barnaby today.
http://www.theage.com.au/polls/voted.html
20% said yes.
No Frank, us “naysayers” have a handle on the technological and political issues involved.
If you have a good ISP (or any ISP for that matter), you can get an unfiltered email feed. Similiarly – before Labor broke its election promise – their original policy was for an opt-in net filter.
If people want to opt in to censored internet, readers digest mailing lists or National Party talking points memo’s – more power to them.
The difference, Frank, if you’d care to look and put aside your blatant partisanship for a second, is that the latter are all voluntary.
Conroy’s filter is compulsory.
Chris Curtis
Please tell me you are not trying to argue with isobar at Bolt’s site. That way leads to madness.
To use Tone’s words – absolute crap. You don’t know what email you don’t get because you never get it.
Poss – do you think it could be because a fair few of us are older and have always lived with R or X or whatever rated movies, etc. I remember when ‘And God Created Woman’ (Brigette Bardot) was banned in SA!! Took ages to get that into theatres – now it seems a real laugh in comparison with the stuff one can see now.
Today I was looking for some coloring-in pics for kids. We hit on a site for fairy pictures and ended up with a huge picture on the righthand side of the page – very lurid and adult, not porn. Kids were all eyes so I clicked off.
It’s not going to worry me but I’m not sure that young kids should have access to some stuff. There’ll be a hue and cry but it’s your lot who has to change it if you want to. We’ve done our fighting for years and it’s our turn to rest.
Barnaby banana and Peter the pumpkin.
The insulation rebate is a good idea but the government has bungled on this program unbelievably.
I have had two insulation installers come to my home, the first one told me i did not have to have two quotes for the rebate and the rebate
could be given with the installer removing my current insulation, and second quoter said i needed insulation and they could install it on top
of current blow in insulaiton. I then got another quote and this supplier provided an honest assessment stating i did not need insulation.
I rang the government regulator on this and asked how do you know that people are taking the rebate and removing insulation as well and guess
what they could answer that question?
Whilst it is a good idea, the programs guidelines are just to flexible and lack any teeth whatsoever. The government seems to be wasting money and making a
total mess of its environmental programs. Would it not be better if they were trained and ownded government installers paid by government directly in the first place instead of subbies taking the government for a ride.
Next problems area to come Mr Conroy’s portifolio and NBN network just watch the mess to come.. .
You can easily install filters on your own computer if you want to block most access to adult content if you don’t want your kids to see adult content.
Plenty of people don’t have children in their households and shouldn’t be subject to mandatory filtering of this content. Some people who have children might even not be fussed if their child occasionally stumbles across an adult image.
Apologies, the regulator could NOT answer my query, NOT COULD.
If this is the case (which I believe it is), why implement it?
It is all in the politics.
Rua went:
I have a number of email accounts -one of which is completely and utterly unfiltered (and, should I add, completely and utterly unreadable!).
But it can be done, usually very easily – you only have to ask.
ltep@1715
Which the kids who are WAY more net savvy than their parents can easily bypass.
Itep – I’m not worried about soft adult images but the one today was certainly not that. Unfortunately the picture I wanted was on that page.
I’m not fussed whether I have a filter or not because today was an unusual event in this house and, apart from having emails filtered, it’s not a worry here.
I don’t feel like a fight. I did my fighting in SA against old Tom Playford and for Donnie Dunstan.
Why could they bypass these filters and not a mandatory Government filter? Even ruawake admits that people will be able to bypass the filter.
Is Conroy proposing to stop “adult images” ?
I heard a discussion on Coast FM (ABC – Sunny Coast Qld) They interviewed an anti conroy guy and asked for callers.
Lo and behold – “Fred” from Sydney just happened to be listening on the Net from Sydney, next caller some wally from tasmania who also just happened to be listening “on the net” to an obscure ABC FM station.
Absolute Crap.
But what if the sending ISP or the guys who monitor the tubes decide that the email to poss is suss? If you believe you are getting an unfiltered email feed – I have a bridge in Sydney going for a great price.
Certain types of adult images yes. I believe it would include certain fetishes which are not illegal. Exactly how much content will be caught by the filter isn’t clear because the Government is not being open about its plans.
The insulation guidelines state that installers cannot get the rebate for installing insulation without two quotes and cannot get the rebate if they remove existing
insulation within your home. Also the shonks come out and tell you that you need insulation when you do not.
The honest installer i approached was Brotherhood Green ( Brotherhood of St Laurence).
The program has been stuffed up.
I’m sure the filtering has been discussed many a time though so I won’t take up any more of this blog’s time/space. For anyone interested there are numerous blogs/websites that solely deal with the issue.
What a crap article.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/6787179/garrett-fighting-for-political-life/
It makes no sense to me that we have government bureaucrats determining what does and doesn’t constitute an acceptable fetish.
Again, this has nothing to do with pedophilia, because it involves the criminal exploitation of children.
Can anyone enlighten me as to why people dying, due to unbelievably dumb work practices such as stapling foil insulation in established houses, surely an OH & S issue, and the other causes of death, are somehow the fault of the fund provider. This has got me stumped and I’ll use this analogy: the Fed govt provides money to hospitals to provide treatment, if our treatment fails due to our negligence or incompetence, we are subject to consequences sanctioned by a range of primarily State legislated bodies, e.g. Worksafe, but may include disciplinery action by the health organisation. a specific organisation or other body. At no point would the Fed Minister for Health be expected to take responsibility for a death due to incompetence in our health network.
It’s the first time I’ve ever heard Liberals say that OH&S practices haven’t been sufficient. oh and that’s Peter Garrett’s fault.
Well it depends really doesn’t it? If the work was contracted out to companies without paying attention to their safety record you could say the Government should have contracted out more carefully.
Bernard Keane reviews today’s question time.
Barnaby at estimates tomorrow is the stuff of nightmares for Abbott.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/02/10/the-pursuit-of-peter-peters-out-but-more-berating-of-barnaby-to-come/
It is all in the politics. The fund provider is the government. The opposition wants to be the government – ergo – the fund provider is incompetent, the fund provider is to blame.
Shows, I thought I’d done the slip into a parallel universe thing. It seems so grossly out of kilter with how things operate ordinarily elsewhere, I wondered if I’d missed something.
Rua went:
Are you suggesting, for a moment, that bulk spam filters on the outbound side are even remotely comparable to either inbound email filters or worse, Conroy’s censorship?
Serious question.
The work wasn’t “contracted out”. Consumers went to an insulation provider of their choice, then if the job fitted with the government’s criteria, it was paid for by a 100% government rebate.
HSO
Exactly – the shonks will have to pay for the dodgy jobs. I noticed Sky News has reduced the number of people killed to two.
They must be excluding the guy who died, on his first day in the job, of heat exhaution. Surely his employer should be in jail.
Or the poor guy who went into the ceiling of a house with live wires in it, of course its Nude Nuts fault.
Before the batts program, how many guys got killed going into the roof space of old houses?
LOL! I never knew Sophie Mirabella was a socialist. She is demanding that Australian military uniforms be made in Australia with Australian fabric.
Question how many installers i getting the rebate when they are not eligble for it?
All government environmental programs are overspent and are turning out to a bunled mess.
Amazing that the LIbs are complaining about OH & S principles, i wounder if they know what such practises mean?
Thanks for this. So the only reason the Government should be accountable is because they provided a rebate? Why is this story even being aired?
Obviously the answer to that is zero. It never happened EVER.
rephrase that
Question how many installers are getting the rebate when they are not eligble for it?
All government environmental programs are overspent and are turning out to a bunlged mess.
marky marky,
I had no problems with having fibreglass bats put in my roof, which only cost the Government $800.00. Why are we not suing the Insulation installers business owners for the stuff ups. They are the ones who did not train people to do the job properly to earn a quick buck. That money should now be taken off them by the home owners for a job that was not done correctly.
Why blame the government every time some business person does the wrong thing.
Because Barnaby Joyce thinks the government is about to default on its loans.
I (my website) send about 3,500 emails a day – About 500 are bounced before they get to the ISP of the reciever, hence my assertion that a clean email feed is bollocks.
Itep, that doesn’t happen in health, which was my point. The Fed govt hands over a lot of money, and I mean a lot of money, to the States and very happily, from my point of view, our program/health network, but if things go wrong, we’d better have our bits that point at the floor pretty comprehensively covered. So, is it a sloppy industry that takes stupid risks, I’d like to know?
Yep on the one hand goods should be made here and the other we should have god save the queen in schools and the Queens’ photo on principals’ wall.
I have a niece who put insulation in their roof 12 months before this program and they had a fire in their roof because of the insulation. no one blamed the Government then.
I’m pretty sure that there used to be a Commonwealth owned company that made uniforms for many federal employees, e.g. customs, fed police, parliamentary staff, members of the defense forces etc
It was privatised by the Fraser government.
HSO – well said. It was lousy listening to the 2 Libs today who virtually called Garrett a murderer. Perhaps we could remind the Libs of all the people who died through their lack of decent OH&S policy when they were in charge.
But it makes good headlines for Tone!!
Did anyone else see his gesture (thumping chest) in QT when the PM said they will keep reminding him of his mistruths about his time in Govt.? He said something but I missed it.
That would be a very good idea if you could find out which people were the shonks and which people were taking the government for a ride.
I rang the government regulator regarding my experience, concerning a quote suggesting removal of current insulation in my home included and only one quotation needed and guess what they could not answer how they could find out about these things happening… Talk about a joke…
ruawake@1746
And woe betide if you rely on a Hotmail, Yahoo or gmail email address which sudenly is blocked by an isp who has deemed it is used by spammers. Or your ISP email address is blocked by an overseas site cos of one Wally.
Miskeimp- the oppositions’ waffle on this is about the regulations… and to me i agree they are drawing a long bow the wht deaths
of people being caused by the government, stupid stuff, but on the regulations they do have a point.
They have been stuffed up.
Possum, ruawake, I admit to being a total dunderhead here, and have only a possibly tenuous grasp of the points of contention between you guys in relation to the proposed intertubes filter. It would seem a fair bet that many others in the population would be in the same boat, which makes it hard to come to a considered position about it, much like the CPRS. Are there any sources that could assist in understanding your different POVs?
Owlmann on 7:30 report played up Peter Garrett’s predicament. Said that the oppo, tomorrow, will go through the usual what did the Minister know when routine. I hope the media, including Uhlmann, puts the related issues aired here. Hold your breath.
Thursday is the day for censure motions.
marky marky. One of our kid’s mother in law had very dodgy job done in ceiling. Others in the street had the same mob but because this lady ws very elderly the installer put ordinary patchwork wadding in thinking she wouldn’t know. Told her it was inflammable but she was a bit more cluey so called my soninlaw.
They rang the hotline and without much trouble got the bloke delicensed. Seems he had done the same to all the old widows but not to the couples. You can’t blame the Minister for laying down the rules and the instllers being crooks.
Neighbours here had batts installed properly. They are very happy with the job – decent and honest installer. There has to be a % of dodgy ones in anything.
Rua went:
The bollocks comes as a function of the ISP you *choose* at the receiving end and whether you get a run-of-the-mill email feed or a something else hosted by them.
Not all ISPs are equal, not all email filters are equal – choice is the key point here.
I will also mention the companies i were quoted by were accredited on the government website. And it was one month ago when it occurred.
So much for tightening the criteria and fixing the problems…
With the weekend coming up and another newspoll. Milne already has his story – heard him on Agenda. He will be vicious. So will Dennis Aitken from Courier Mail.
Pspehos – pass on HSO’s comment earlier comment. Garrett needs to stand up to this lot. He’s far more decent than they are.
On another federal government funded initiative, the Snowy Mountains Scheme, 121 workers lost their lives, with many more injured. Faulty equipment, poor servicing, bad practices, rock falls. I don’t remember there being any blame attached to the governments then. How times have changed.
BH, this has really got me gob smacked, and marky, if the Fed govt has not made the relevant legislation and regulations, I cannot see how they are responsible. They are the fund provider not the regulator for OH & S.Are the fourth estate that stupid or that partisan?
What about the truly scandalous part though? Was the Government informed that there were potential safety issues?
No Poss, the emails never made it to the recieving ISP. They were bounced by the mysterious “censors” the guys who own the pipes – the AT&T’s the Optus’ etc.
That is my entire point, the current situation is stuffed but nobody gives a rats.
The story of the week is whether or not Abbott has the guts to sack Joyce.
For the Liberals to even get CLOSE to winning this year’s election they need EVERYTHING to go their way, Abbott simply can’t afford to have the Joyce fiasco go on another week.
Senator Evans sounds so boring he is entertaining.
The problem your Mother in Law had concerned poor workmanship, my concern is about the guidelines,
as their may be installers out their doing good work but are doing so without being eligble under the guidelines.
Hence one quote, removal of insulation and new insulation, and the guidelines suggest that the rebate cannot be provided to installers
if they do this. Of people who get insulation would they be bothered to tell the government of such breachs occurring and in fact how would
they government know. Also concerning my second quote how would the government know of an installer installing installation not according to the size
specfications of your current installation, as the second installer was cleary breaching this guideline when he said he could put it on top of my blow in.
How do i know, the brotherhood green guy said my current installation was deep and adequate and above government specifications.
What of people who do not know, the ignorant people. And what of problems in the years to come?
marky mark, what does that have to with the safety issues? Am I missing something?
Harry SO
All the information you need is here (masses of it all linked to sources):
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html#rcpossess
There is also a short overview linked on the home page:
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan-overview.html
If you read that and then read Conroy’s press releases, you can clearly discern the attempted deception on his part in the way he describes the filtering.
I was never talking about the safety issues.. But it is about the wastage of taxpayers money and subbies taking the taxpayer for a ride.
People taking the rebate and not meeting the guidelines and getting away with it.
HSO – ‘does a bear etc. etc.’ I’m off to buy Nikki Savvs’ book tomorrow because she has squealed about the tawdriness of journos in Canberra and elsewhere in Oz.
This arvo on Agenda you could see the gleam in Milne’s eyes – he will recite all the verbally the Oppn has handed out this to Labor. Doesn’t matter whether anything is true or not.
Joe Hockey today told a few whoppers but that doesn’t matter – they were recited on the news everywhere.
jv
Do you realise the site you quoted is:
Irene Graham c/o Dynadot Privacy
PO Box 701
San Mateo, CA 94401
United States
Surely we don’t need septics to tell us what to do?
Yeah I agree Marky Marky, socialism is a failure. Direct action by governments just leads to waste and chaos.
Itep
‘ One Snowy veteran, a former tournapull operator, described the work atmosphere on the Project as follows:
“Physically, working on the Snowy Scheme was similar to being on war footing. I was familiar with this situation after having lived through heavy bombing as a child during the war. On the job, the Snowy was very much a ‘peacetime version’ of imminent danger and the will to survive.” ‘
However, its record was better than the US, which then had a target of no more than 1 death per mile of tunnelling. We achieved ‘only’ 0.6 deaths per mile. Brilliant, eh?
But on the Sawpit to Bluecow tunnel in the snowfields in the 1980s there were no deaths due to improved technology.
http://workers.labor.net.au/35/c_historicalfeature_snowy.html
ruawake@1772
Actually she is from Brisvegas.
http://libertus.net/moreinfo.html#who
Though the US Address doesn’t help.
You tell them, marky marky. Just like my SIL. If they have rules and guidelines and someone goes outside them it won’t be known unless you tell them. And 2 quotes is good – people are too quick to accept that someone is on the level. Check out the credentials. There are Associations they have to be part of or somewhere they have to be licensed. SIL looked on the govt. web site – got a number and rang it. Then followed it up.
Nikki the dope Sav, on lateline last night got me going when she said the Canberra Press Gallery was a useless lot and then the next minute she says
that they are a bunch of left wingers…
Truthy
I wonder if the people who live in the “real world” have ever lived in inner city apartments and sipped latte.
Yep accredited i looked. I will say it again what of the people who are to ignorant to do so and because they are getting it for free do not wish to tell.
Yes two quotes but what of the installer who says you only need one quote for the rebate. This whole program is going to be overspent and
possibly taxpayers money fraudulently given.
ruawake
]Surely we don’t need septics to tell us what to do?]
It’s OK, Irene Graham is Executive Director of Electronic Frontiers Australia, and the content on that topic is home grown. She just doesn’t have her own website, but is obviously using another one. EFA has a site though and I found this on it, which is well worth the read:
“The top 10 filtering questions yet to be answered”
http://www.efa.org.au/2010/01/20/the-top-10-filtering-questions/
Frank
Dynadot is a pay per click advertising scam.
try http://www.buxfly.com to see how its done.
Possum went:
That a way ……….. and never came back ……………
Result of the Howard Razor Gang, no doubt. Those of us that lived through it will never forget it.
#1430 – JV
I too think that Belinda Neal is a dud and I have no time for her. However, she, like everyone else is entitled to a fair go, with the pre-selection decided on its merits rather than false information.
Thats why I have been disgusted by Rudd’s failure to correct the record regarding counselling.
If Neal loses the pre-selection in a “fair” contest, she has nothing to complain about. Otherwise, she has grounds for a legitimate complaint, and an air of illegitimacy will hang over Deb O’neill.
To plagiarise a phrase ; Its the process, stupid
So when the shit hits the fan regarding overfinancing a project it is okay? I have no problem with the project i agree with it.
But all environmental programs are being mismanaged. Good to see that as usual you support the Government,.
jv
So why is Irene Graham using a site that pays her per click?
Yeah, but it is kind of funny that a Liberal now is going all socialist simply over Chinese fabric.
My previous comment refers to Shows On.
Yes, the troubles with the insulation program are another argument against the Liberal’s ‘direct action’ climate ‘policy’. It is hard enough for government bureaucrats to organise an insulation policy, their chance of getting a coal power operator to cut emissions is probably zero.
Exactly, i agree but do not put a different spin on it.
The one that always gets me are the servicemen/women who die in industrial accidents, and the we get the ‘died in the line of duty’ line.
The Westralia being a classic example.
BH said
We all just need to remember this comes from a person who was himself involved in a violent, drunken attack on another journalist on national television. Their abc continue to regularly welcome him onto its flag ship show, the so called ‘insiders’..
And post it over and over every time the the 8th dwarf – ie the poison ones name comes up.
Peter Young
I heard a whisper that the counselling Rudd ordered for Neal was to overcome her florid broccolini aversion.
Anyone got a handle on the socio/political history of the relationship between Ukraine and Georgia? Is there historical deep seated animity between the two peoples.
Reason I ask is that there is a big dispute atm in the doggy park between a Ukrainian born guy and a Georgian born guy (over their respective dogs naturally) and it has almost got to physical violence. I have each person’s side of the argument – but they don’t stack up?
I was thinking there may be a “historical” prejudice thing happening.
ruawake
? Do you mean there is an advertiser which pays her per click?
If not, the site is hers, so I guess she pays herself.
Either way, the content is good, in my opinion.
If we’re in the mood for exchanging dodgy insulation installer stories – I had one mob at the door a few weeks ago, trying to get me to sign up. Tried to convince me that it was OK that I was just the tenant, because it wasn’t going to cost anything. I tried to convince them to just leave the quote and I would pass it on to the agent, but they weren’t having a bar of it, wanted a signature on their dodgy form. One of my neighbours must have been more suspicious even than I was, because the police turned up and talked to them. They left the street.
Chinese Reserve Managers Notified That Any Non-US Govt Guaranteed Securities Must Be Divested
Earlier today Gottliebsen @ Bus Spectator mused in part :
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Europe-crisis-US-commodities-Australia-GFC-pd20100210-2HRG3?OpenDocument&src=sph
marky marky – to tell the truth I feel a bit put out by those people. They are wasting taxpayers’ money by not checking and doing something about it. I forgive elderly people who get a bit bamboozled but nothing is for free – somebody pays.
Will still get the Savvas book – she’s got rocks in her head if she thinks they are all leftwing. Her boss, Costello, got a great run in the press for years until he really turned to custard.
jv
Dynadot privacy is owned by buxfly, you can buy a book on how to run a blog to make money.
Why is the Aussie head of EFA using such a site?
Dave – wow, that China thing you posted will have some interesting outcomes – a bit scarey too.
ruawake
I’m not sure what you are driving at – what does the web-hosting company have to do with the site content? The web-host home page is here.
http://www.dynadot.com/company/about.html
It looks just like other web hosting sites and domain registration mobs that I have used to set up sites in the past. It’s cheaper to do it through a US web-host witha US domain name, that’s all.
Let’s move beyond red herrings (don’t get excited Finnigans
). How about reading the summary and discussing the excellent points raised instead?
dave 1797
Briefly saw a chart of credit default swap rates on ABC news…appeared to show US Treasuries at same level as Australia’s
Very good for Oz (cf Barnaby) but mainly not a good look for the US
BH – I am no guru, but things look like they are *rolling over* to me at least.
Why would the germans bail out greece ? Only if its in their own interests obviously.
But the ordinary germans have had a gutful of a lot of the EU stuff.
I read something recently that it would make more sense for germany to exit the EU as it is really the powerhaus of the so called *franco-german* empire that really is the EU.
The thinking (?) being that the euro currency could then devalue to the necessary level and the ‘new’ Deutschmark find its appropriate level.
Even if greece is bailed out, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy etc are all in the queue as well – with basically only the germans (again) to pick up the bill(s).
Next are the POMs, Yanks.
I’m sure I’ve missed some other biggies as well…
hungry beast si doing the internet thingy NOW
A filter similar to that being proposed in Australia is under discussion in the French parliament at the moment. There is a black list of sites to be blocked that is to be sent to French ISPs. The following link is to the Le Monde newspaper (for those of you that read French). The last paragraph of the article mentions that Australia has set aside 62 million euros to indemnitise Australian ISP’s for the cost of setting up the system.
Similar points to those that have been raised on PB about the feasability of blocking sites are made:
“Publiée durant l’été 2009, et réalisée par deux cabinets d’étude, Marpij et Insight, l’étude d’impact sur le filtrage de la Fédération française des télécoms, démontre ainsi que toutes les techniques de blocage, “sans exception aucune, sont contournables”.
which is basically saying ” a impact study undertaken by two research firms, Marpij et Insight, published in the summer of 2009 on filtering by the French service providers showed that all blocking techniques ‘without exception can be got around’”.
http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2010/02/10/le-filtrage-de-sites-pedopornographiques-une-mesure-efficace_1303451_651865.html#ens_id=1272137
Dave, you missed out Australia or haven’t you been paying attention Barnaby?
#1806 “attention to Barnaby”
If the opposition manage to get senator Conroy they will have done Australia a favour. Feel sorry for Peter Garrett. No good dead goes unpunished, poor guy.
Evidence here that if it were the Libs in government putting up this censorship rubbish, Labor would be opposed to it, on this record. So, what’s changed, apart from a bit of Christian lobbying?:
http://libertus.net/censor/index.html
Rudd should just stay away from the internet
We have Grocery choice and Fuel choice 2 of the biggest money wasting dudd in mankind history
We have myschool.com, who upsets teachers and pregressive groups and who is great right wing pollicy
We have NBN, who the auditor general claimed wasted $16 mill, and will move Australia into $40 billion in debt and had been paned by 3 of the main telecommunication companies
We have the censourship, again wasting millions, can be gotten around by people who really want kiddie porn and will mainly cause havoc to ordinary Australians, panned by progressive groups and comes stright out of China’s internet policy Rudd might as well import Baidu from China
All of these has the fingerprint of CONroy on it …. he is by far the weakest link in Federal politics in the last 40 years
Err, how can Fuel Watch have been a waste, when you guys blocked it?
What is wrong with Conroy? He was asked about filtering the internet and whether it would slow traffic. He said the Govt was in discussions with Google about filtering it as Google had experience filtering lots of sites for the Chinese Govt.
Not a great answer.
Ah no. Not great at all.
The internet filter discussion on Hungry Beast was OK, but I still would’ve liked it if the interviewer pointed out to Conroy that the OFLC classification process is completely corrupt because it simply relies on the subjective judgments of government bureaucrats.
Why don’t we have a system like jury duty, where people 18 years and older are called up off the electoral roll and are asked to classify different media. Say, 9 people per media all vote for the classification. That would be much more representative of community standards than our current bureaucratic system.
Again, whether or not something is child pornography is a matter for the federal police, not film classifiers.
Diogenes you would have to be a certifiable idiot to put up what Conroy has as serious government policy. You expect a better answer?
I hope the Liberals get him on jobs for the boys. And it’s a long time since I supported the Liberals. The rubbish Conroy has come out with belongs to a right wing conservative nut and they belong in the Liberal party.
If anyone missed Colbert’s take down of Palin from last night, here it is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/colbert-sarah-palin-is-a_n_454744.html
I ask one Q
Would we have this debate if howard had wanted filtering?
ie I applaud Conroy for having the balls to stump up and defend this policy as opposed to arbitarily imposing it.
Just did a little research on The Australian Christian Lobby which is working on the filter with Conroy. I hadn’t realised it is identified with the Festival of Light, and supported Fred Nile and Gordon moyes in the NSW election. God help us all.
“ACL ‘aims at defining Christian values in the way we are governed, the way we do business, and in our relations together as a community’ (New Life, 5 Sept. 2002). In practice this translates as ‘the promotion of standard Religious Right causes, especially concerning sexual morality’. For example, ACL favours heavier censorship and strongly opposes abortion and gay rights. A number of the leading personalities hold creationist beliefs.”
http://unbelief.org/groups/acl/
You support this complete waste of money because a right wing nut is willing to defend it?
Gusface –
see #1809 above on what Howard did in 1999 for Australain sites, and who opposed it.
jaundiced view; as a filter the thing will be as effective as a leaky sieve. From a civil liberty point of view we won’t need much help. The serious issue is the complete waste of money.
fredn
not so nice verbal
What I mean to say is that we are having a mostly reasonable debate about a Gvt proposal,the input from here and other places will end up as part of the final shape of the filter 4.1 (yes there has been 3 other ‘filters’ imposed but peeps conveniently forget that fact)
I think that in todays age of cyber sovereignty, a Gvt must enact rules to protect said sovereignty.
Which could be spent setting up one of the world’s best cyber crime organisations.
Poor Fred Nile’s anti-Muslim policy is in tatters. Maybe the Muslim god exists after all.
SMH, Christians give flack the flick
Mind you if you want to keep ready your crikey blogs uninterrupted it may pay to learn how to use a proxy server.
Gus
Did you see his China answer? The guy isn’t brave; he’s stupid.
More on Conroy’s filter team mates, the Australian Christian Lobby. This is the group that suggested the filter in the first place and got the private briefing with Conroy on the trial before anyone else:
“Formerly the Australian Christian Coalition founded in 1995, this group is based in Canberra and headed by former SAS chief, Brigadier Jim Wallace. Its aims are “to reclaim our society and our government for God and to have the Christian voice heard”. It advocates rules of conduct prescribed by the Bible, as contained in the Ten Commandments and the first five books of the Old Testament.”
China charges Rio Tinto quartet: report
February 10, 2010 – 10:04PM
AFP
China has charged four employees of mining giant Rio Tinto with violating bribery and trade secret laws, state Xinhua news agency reported on Wednesday.
(MORE TO COME …)
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/china-charges-rio-tinto-quartet-report-20100210-nsiy.html
Many have waited to see which way the chinese would go on this. Should soon know.
1823
Yes and in the long term a hell of a lot more useful.
What if that was also part of the long term aim and the filter 4.1 was but the first step?
No he understands what cyber sovereignty means and why we need to protect ours
Conroy’s a leftie… much like the rest of his Labor Latte sipping mates.
A cyber crime organisation is not about filtering porn, at it’s most basic level it’s about making the network safe for commercial transaction. That involves research and the catching of the people doing the damage.
fredn@1825
Last I saw Crikey blogs do NOT host refused classification content as it is already ILLEGAL to host it in Australia.
This is related to INTERNATIONAL sites only.
Stop peddling untruths like the majority of the Anti Filterites.
I don’t understand what you mean by “cyber sovereignty”. No government owns the internet (which is a GOOD thing).
The fact is that politicians and policy makers are absolutely HOPELESS at keeping up with technology. For example, when The Cadaver was attorney general, he amended the copyright act to finally make it legal for Australians to copy their CDs to a computer, for the purposes of uploading the files to an iPod or other MP3 player.
The problem is his laws made it ILLEGAL to have TWO copies of the files from a CD. In other words, you can EITHER have a copy of a song on your computer OR on your MP3 player, but it remains illegal to have two files from the same CD on different devices at the same time (e.g. on an iPod and also in your iTunes database). So these brand new amendments to the copyright act that were meant to bring the copyright inline with new technological developments were in fact IMMEDIATELY obsolete, because they don’t actually make it legal to use the technology the way it is meant to be used. That’s the problem we have with out of touch politicians making laws about technologies that they are completely unfamiliar with, and don’t seek to familiarise themselves with before making the laws.
Rudd obviously had no idea about file sharing when he answered a question about it on Q&A on Monday. Same deal.
It just astounds me that the government thinks this filter will be able to magically block people from downloading RC files via Bittorent.
Gus
I didn’t actually hear him talk about cyber sovereignty. I heard him talk about about applying the same standards to the internet as to books, DVDs etc and then we heard that the internet banned list won’t be released but they would release the books, DVDs so they weren’t applying the same standards at all.
He also didn’t explain that it is ridiculously easy to bypass the filter using PTP or just email.
He is actually in the Victorian Centre Unity faction. But we understand you never let facts get in the way of posting nonsense.
TTH
You really are an ignorant sod; the labor party ranges from left to an extreme right that would make some in the Liberal party look left.
Hell we now have the labor party trying to introduce a market based mechanism to reduce carbon as a fuel ( a good solid liberal policy) and the Liberal party supporting direct government intervention that any 1930 socialist would be proud of.
Try and get real instead of sprouting tired old crap.
I have no idea what “cyber sovereignty” means.
Frank
Tell that to Psephos. He’s been very naughty today by linking a RC youtube. Of course with Conroys filter having to block youtube videos, that will slow the internet as there is so much youtube traffic.
I use the term “cyber sovereignty” as in the same vein that the Gvt exerts sovereignty over all sorts of matters
The oceans (steady troothy)
Non internet MSM
Laws
Treaties
etcetera etcetera eetcetera
Why is the webby thingy so sacred?
Truthys’ cat is out of the bag so to speak.
He does not want the boats to come here because there is a possibility that their numbers will displace some of the numbers who have been scamming their way in by attending the number of faux trade education colleges set up during the previous government.
Now that the government has announced that the future intakes will be skilled etc before they get here and some of these colleges will have to shut down due to lack of students.
The bloke on 7.30 described it as a system of people smuggling but the only thing missing is the boats.
Ruddster is effectively putting the peopls smuglers domiciled here out of business.
Wonder why Howard did not see through it?
Is this why you are angry Truthy?
Do you own one of these faux education colleges?
Diogenes@1840
Umm, Youtube already have the merchanism of blocking content to individual countries such as China – so it would be their responsibility to comply with the legislation.
fredn – #1838
Now aint that the truth !!!
PY
labor has always been a broad church
The Australian government sovereignty over the ocean only extends about 12 KM from the continental shelf. Most oceans are not controlled by Australian laws, they are controlled by international treaties that Australia has ratified.
I’m glad to see you have so much faith in this particular human system. So much faith that is will never be corrupted, no much faith that one day it won’t be Labor calling the shots. So much faith that it won’t follow the canteen that got black listed because it overused the word “teen”.
Frank at times it really does pay to think instead of sprouting party nonsense.
I don’t know if the interstaters are aware of this but the biggest news in SA ATM is that Port Adelaide Football Club is going to be wound up at the end of the season. They have been in the league for 140 years and won more premierships than any team in Australia.
The clubs here voted that they couldn’t merge with Port Power so they are dead.
The question will have to be asked if the State Govt should bail them out (Rann and Foley are Port supporters but have rightly declined to get involved so far).
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/vote-underway-for-port-power-merger/story-e6frecj3-1225828477830
And being a human I just messed up my double negatives
So why not the same laws to cover our cyber oceans??
Maybe – but when the religious nutters, the pro-developer and love big business pews are in the ascendancy, it’s time to find another church to worship in.
Says Frank, as if Australia actually matters to the internet.
Ask your mate Conroy how long it took him to get youtube to comply with the last demand for removal his Dept sent their way.
Why are the Labor faithful trying to match the censorship policy of a military dictatorship?
All it takes is one person to download that clip, then upload it again to YouTube, then ACMA would have to add another address to their block list.
Repeat ad infinitum, and you have just come up with a situation that would be comical, i.e. you’d need a government bureaucrat spending their day searching for the banned videos so s/he can send the new addresses to ACMA for banning.
Gus and SO
We don’t even enforce the law in Australian oceans. Just ask the Japanese whalers. We’ve been just about to take them to court for 10 years now.
So the Europeans are considering bailing out Greece in some way? They may as well throw their money down a well, it will produce the same amount of positive outcome. This time next year Greece will be back to the well again.
That would be something to debate in the United Nations wouldn’t it, because the internet is INHERENTLY an international medium, kind of like the oceans.
Rann supports the Panthers (can’t you remember the SANFL adverts with Rann saying: Go Panthers!)
Quite frankly I think it is sad if they fold, they have a long and rich history. I say that as someone who supports Norwood.
ShowsOn @1814, its interesting how Conroy has managed to keep people thinking inside the box, keeping the filter within the existing classification framework. Even you end up saying..
Which is interesting, because there is no actual need for a filter to be based on the classification system. Indeed you say it yourself..
Well said. Point is that the filter, if it should exist at all, should have nothing to do with the classification system. It should instead be based on its own strict and non subjective rules. Rules enforced by the federal police, and given judicial oversight.
If Conroy were not lying through his teeth, this is precisely the approach he would have taken. The very fact he isn’t and instead is merely trying to extend existing censorship laws speaks volumes about what he is really up to, and who he is pandering to.
Howard, as usual had his own agenda. And what was that you ask ?
Lower wages as usual !
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Immigration-Chris-Evans-Coalition-ALP-Indian-stude-pd20100210-2HRSB?OpenDocument&src=sph
Yes in its own interests to talk its own book…
Make your own mind up.
ShowsOn@1854
If Youtube don’t comly, then the entire site is blocked.
So they either play by the rules or suffer the consequences.
SO
It must be Port Power he supports.
I’m the same as you, even a Redlegs supporter. I’d be very sad to see them go. Port is a SA icon and we shouldn’t let them fold.
So if the UN came up with something like the law of the sea convention you would support a similait thing for the internet?
Thomas, Europe has expanded rapidly without spending a cent on war. They have a lot of money available to hold their “conquest” together.
Frank
Youtube already ignore and barely ever comply. Are you really asking them to shut down? Where would all your music videos come from?
ShowsOn
Fred Nile would put his hand up to be that bureaucrat. I don’t think he does much else than trawl the net for nasties (all in the name of God of course).
It would be a bit like the bureaucracy Hermes in Futurama is part of. It would only take a few months to have a URL added to the list.
What a Dopus Ei Conroy is.
Nope I actually support the US position and there spending of money to stop the Chinese and people like Conroy killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Pity we are not helping the US keep the internet free instead of burning gold in the middle east.
Diogenes@1865
Tell that to the people who upload Warner Music Group recordings – they get blocked and the channels suspended faster than you can claim medicare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90ljKcpoRk
Frank
I’ve been trying for years to get Finn’s highly defamatory youtubes about me being wrong removed, and that one of him dancing when he lost a bet which doesn’t even show his flippers properly.
They just treat me with ignore.
Perhaps Finn’s web of intrigue reaches into the youtube offices.
Ok
Some have skirted the soV. issue and totally avoided why the internet should be sacred,but in the process we threw a few cheap shots at conroy.
AND YOU WONDER WHY 80% SUPPORT THE FILTER
Sheesh
It would want to be a lot faster than I can claim medicare. That takes about six weeks.
I agree good points. And the “non subjective rules” should be looser than say, the classification that relates to cinemas, because a cinema is ultimately a public place whereas a computer in one’s home is a private space that should ultimately be regulated by parents / guardians.
It is astonishing to me that the OFLC bureaucrats, who have a proven track record of inconsistency and failure (e.g. releasing films that are later banned, releasing films as MA that are later changed to R) are somehow considered perfect classification robots that always make perfect judgments inline with “community standards” (whatever the hell that means!)
We need a brand new system that classifies media in a “evidence based policy” way, i.e. what evidence do we have that certain media may HARM individuals, and how do we regulate it so it isn’t seen by minors?
Krugman blames Spain’s joining the euro as the cause of its current problem. Though he doesn’t so what their position would have been if they didn’t.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
Dio
Finns is Utube
Gus
That would explain why he hasn’t been around much recently. He’s in negotiation with Conroy about the filter and youtube.
Don’t mean to interupt the filter debate (just scan through this if you like – if you don’t already have the scottish program to avoid my posts – but if you are interested you may like to comment). Had a discussion with an experienced school teacher today and her views were interesting:-
1. She supported the MySchool site. She reckoned it would have effect of making some Principals “responsible” for their schools and smartening up their acts. She was not generally impressed by Principals and saw the majority of them as time servers – more interested in being “goody too shoes” to the education bureaucracy rather than caring for teachers or education in its broader sense.
2. She believed the lap-top computer program was a farce – a waste of money, or perhaps more importantly a misdirection of resources. However, she acknowledged it was a smart politicl move, as kids wold have encouraged parents to vote Labor so they could get a lap-top.
3. She believed one of the great difficulties faced by teachers was tryig to teach in crumbling and inappropriate classrooms. She saw crumbling structures, unpleasant climate (lack of air-conditioning) and inappropriate use or placement of materials as real barriers to providing a better environment in which to teach.e.g. lino swuares ripped up by kids, power switches to fans placed in places where kids spent lessons mischievously switching them on and off – as real barriers to teachers delivering quality lessons. When I pointed out the climate change effects of providing air-conditioning in all schools, and the alternate choice of building schools using environmentally friendly designs like the Suury Hills Library she agreed that would be a more appropriate design model. However her basic point was that most people, particularly bureaucrats and politicians worked in air-conditioned offices…yet expected teachers to perform miracles in 3rd rate physical conditions.
LOL! You are calling for ALL of YouTube to be blocked to Australians? If Rudd wants to commit electoral suicide, that would be one way of achieving it.
fredn @1864
LOL! I seriously hope you are referring to THIS century, and not LAST century!
Gusface
The internet isn’t ‘sacred’. Illegal content should be subject to police control, as it already is, and otherwise be controlled by individuals in their homes.
Legal RC content should not be banned. It should be an opt-in system asoriginally envisaged before the right-wing god botherers recruited Conroy.
And the other thing we haven’t canvassed tonight is (although we have wondered before), what will the penalties be for those who circumvent the filter, obtain legal but blocked RC content and distribute it to others?
Great! There goes my access to cooking demos.
When did the current ALP become so inclined towards a kind of proto-fascism?
About the same time as Kevin Rudd became leader.
ShowsOn@1877
I’ll remember that stupid comment next time the Pro Pornites call on “The Govt” to ban an extreme hate site.
If Youtube are blatently not complying with the spirit, if not the letter of the law, it should suffer same sanctions which apply to other illegal sites – in fact it might force them to clean up some of the far right filth they post – oh and they can easily set up a mirror site locally which would comply.
I understand they will be skinned, their flesh worn as a trophy and their blood drunk in ritual OD rites
next morning it will be pissed out and the next recidivist will be led to the altar
Stum Stum Stum
Frank ,
dont tell em that,all the bluster and blarney will evaporate in frazzled reality
Go gentle into the night
Do you mean there should be a new classification system? Because as it currently stands, RC content is by definition banned. You can’t import, distribute, possess, exhibit or do ANYTHING with it.
Probably the same as for possessing or distributing RC media now, which I think is a fine up to $100,000 and up to 3 years in jail. Of course, if the RC material is child pornography, then that is a specific crime which can be up to 20 years in jail.
Oh for goodness sake. When did they say that? The media release explicitly said it would not block bittorrent. Yet another strawman from the neo anti-filterite folk.
I see Conroy’s filter is the choice of topic again. Go easy on St Mercurial fellas. He know not what he talk about
Now, those hoping that the market crashes, for whatever reason (maybe they hate capitalism, maybe they haven’t got the marbles to invest, or maybe they are too frightened to take the current prices and want them as low as possible) had better hope that more economies go to the wall.
Two of the biggest heavyweights reported to the market today, CBA and BHP, and fair dinkum they are positioned to explode when the world economy recovers.
The last time I said that about a company was ALL. At the time they were trading at around 4.00 and are now trading at 4.55 after reporting to the market. And they have just started.
Gusface
What about the goats? – I thought fundie and opus D rituals always had goats. Disappointing without the goats…
JV
We substitute anti filterites these days-cheaper to catch and far less gaffa tape
Many Pbers & Lurkers prob now confiused by ant I filter rascals feedin youse with there fluff
Most aussies instinct ar against net child porn etc (80% per poll)
Guys and Gals , stay with your instinct , and not th free love NOW old aged hippy libartariens , intelectual dinasors mugging you with red herings
but if you wanta back up your initial instrincts , then you may wonder just how arogantly inconsistantly in logics these anti filter flower pots ar just taste thee contradictons like
like argument no 1 , its infringe of free rites a child porn net filter BUT argumnt no 2 is with grea technpogics info is th child net filter can stop child net porn
So fark me dead , if it cannot block it then and you can see that net stuff THEN there ar no rites infringed at all (they cann’t hav both arguments)
argment no 3 this is AS IF this is a brand new law , another false anti filterer point
It is a law ALREADY in existense from th 1992 Broadcasting Act which makes ilegal onlines RC & X18+ online contents Conroy simple putting in a filter to enforse exisitng law Anti filterers not menton that bit
then contradict argment 5 that th list is secret Well of couse it is secret UNTIL th bloody court case charging th law breakers Like ASIO & Tax Dept dont publisise there ‘people of interst eithr Police dont publisise Druggy Lords under surveilance Why dont th libartariens aergue all of these Law enforsment Agencies publisise there secret list and nt just th Law enfo0rsement that will prosacute net child porn law breakers
doosi is this , there anti filterers next breath say some ISP’s will publisise th secret list Well then it aint secret any more is it ! So there libartarien argument that it is secret breaks down complete if you also accept there othr argument that secret list will get ppublisised
arguments no 7 Possum says we pretty dumb & imature giving power to State , a typical free love Libartarien rant scare mongerin Well i hav more respect for aussies sense of “smarts’ than possum sitting up on his overlord branch snooting down We aussies clever to hav State stop child porn for us (brought up Hitler somewhere in that , so knew where he go is BS)
And the j/v says we all puritan fundo consevatives (us 80%) Well once youse use that argument then I can say simple: folks wanting to stop child porn ar normal (80%) , and those against ar whaco s seeing you wantta use terms of endsearments
arguments no 8 , this exact clasified stuff is already banned in newagents , bookstores , K mart BUT anti filterers you notise do NOT argue to lift that ban to be consistent with there libertarien argument Why dont theys ? Cause they’s look pretty dumb
Oh dear this is exact clasified stuff already baned on TV & videos two Now why dont they rgue to LIFT th ban on TV/Video also
..simple rason is public wld think argument is bot inconsistant and foolish
Of couse elephant in room point is 9 , is 21st century chinese & indian rise to power , and power to internet in that , but guess that is issue abit out of long range thoughts at moments
puiritan intelectual libartariens will keep SPAMMING here with red herings but only cheery pik what I says , to confuse aussie instincts sickness against net child porn that a net filter may assist
This anti net porn libartarien junk food is reel simple to camoflage there libartarien extremisims , BUT i do reely exclude genuine mis guided ones anti filterers tricked by BS tech reasons against th filter in this descripton
Got lots more to show anti filteers view baseless , but suffice above shows there reel beef is unlogical zealotry libartarism , which ordinary people (wanting to ban net child porn etc) think such libartarien ‘thinkers’ ar in th bizzarre intelectual fringe zone
Just love that 80% Poll in favor of stopping net obsenses , makes th extremes libartariens th irelevents they ar in reel world
You are equating YouTube with an unidentified “extreme hate site”? And that is meant to make sense how?
Do you realise that we have specific LAWS against inciting violence against people? We don’t need an internet filter for that sort of material to ALREADY be a crime! All we need is enough cyber police who can actually apply the laws we already have. At the moment no one thinks we have anywhere near enough highly skilled police to do that job.
I’m sorry, but saying that ALL of YouTube should be added to the ACMA blocklist, simply because, for example, they have a video of Saddam Hussein being executed is just wacky. YouTube is something like the 4th most popular website on the entire internet. If the Australian Government ever banned that site, it would instantly piss off basically every internet user in the country.
So that means it is a waste of money, because that is the major way RC videos can be shared.
I’m sorry but that’s completely illogical. Youtube is not the same as say stomrftont. Not all of the youtube content is ‘hate’ material in the way it is at that other place.
On You tube you can find footage of our parliament, footage of wine making, catch up shows such as Bill Maher and Queer as Folk (legally available in Australia through Foxtel and SBS), and sushi making videos that I’ve been watching of late. Why should any of this be denied to Australians simply because the government doesn’t want us to view assisted suicide clips? It’s madness.
No idea what the figures mean.
Is it a sign they are “underpriced” and represent a bargain – or does it mean they are “over-priced” and the bubble is about to burst.
Don’t worry I haven’t got the marbles to invest in the stockmarket -so I won’t be influencing the market tomorrow (if Bob Carr is reading here on behalf of Macquarie, I’m sure Macquarie ay have some market impact)- but i did just have $20 on the Liberals in SA at $5.10….in the expectation of a narrowing as the election gets closer and will trade out for a “win” – irrespective of the actual result
Ron
From time to time your insights are dynamite,this one is equal to gelignite
ShowsOn
“Almost all sub-categories of RC material are not illegal to access or possess in the majority of Australian States/Territories.”
“While Communications Minister Senator Conroy (and various DBCDE/governmental documents) frequently describe RC material as being material that “includes child sex abuse content, bestiality, sexual violence including rape and the detailed instruction of crime or drug use”, it should be noted the word “includes” (rather than e.g. contains/comprises) is apparently used because the foregoing brief outline describes only a small sub-set of the wide variety of material in the RC category. Senator Conroy knows that, as evidenced by his remarks on SBS TV Insight in March 2009 and his answers to Question on Notice No. 1496 tabled in the Senate on 22 June 2009.”
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html#RC
So which is it? An infringement on our civil liberties that will block sites, or a waste of money? You can’t have it both ways.
Ron
90% wanted the sites banned to be listed which Conroy refuses to do. So do you agree with the majority when it suits you and ignore it when it doesn’t.
ShowsOn@1890
If Youtube don’t want that to happen it is up to them to comply with the legislation and block said videos from being seen in Australia – they already do that with some content such as music videos so it isn’t technically impossible.
PY @ 1893
- Aristocrat trading at $4.02.
- Centre tips Aristocrat to Green Bludgers and Diogenes because I know how much they love gaming machines.
- Aristocrat reports to market.
- Shares trade 11% higher.
Well this is utterly confusing. Exhibitors can not show RC films in cinemas, RC films can not be sold by retailers, RC films can not be imported (if customs find an RC DVD they can confiscate it and send the federal police around to warn or charge you). So how can it be legal to “access or possess”? Are they encouraging people to download them from the internet?
The rest of your post just demonstrates the massive problem of people like Conroy conflating RC material (i.e. a film deemed too violent to get an R classification) with child pornography. They are completely different issues and shouldn’t even be mentioned together.
For the hundredth time, my major criticism is that relying on the OFLC to determine what webpages should be legal and what webpages should be RC is an absolute joke, because the OFLC has a proven track record of inconsistency, double standards, and complete failure. Not to mention that any OFLC decision can be over ruled by the state attorney general, so you effectively have a system where one politician will be able to decide.
ShowsOn @1884,
WroNG..
http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/australian-government-will-block-rc-content-under-mandatory-isp-filtering/
Also, the current rules for the blacklist go further than RC and include “potentially RC”, so if the filter is implemented, many sites will be blocked that are merely “potentially RC” in the eyes of the bureaucrat that initially handles the case.
It is utterly absurd to base any filter on the current censorship laws when it could be based on separate laws based on pure illegality and administered by the Federal Police. The very fact that Conroy is taking the much harder path of basing the filter on the censorship laws speaks volumes about his real goals.
ShowsOn@1900
Rubbish – RC also includes Films where actors who are OVER 18 depecting children below the age of consent.
I couldn’t care less about YouTube (which incidentally is owned by Google, one of the biggest internet companies). I am just pointing out to you that if the Australian government EVER blocked ALL of YouTube.com, it would be thrown out at the following election for massive incompetence and stupidity.
“Will the compulsory tier block only ‘child pornography’/'illegal’ material
and/or be limited to a ‘worst of the worst’ sub-set of “RC” material?”
No, as at 15 Dec 2009 the gov’t has stated that the compulsory tier will block RC material (a sub-set of “prohibited content” previously referred by the Minister/Government).
“RC material” (and the broader category “prohibited content”) is a vastly wider category of material than both ‘child pornography’ and Senator Conroy’s frequently used ‘worst of the worst’ shorthand description of the types of material that would be blocked.
The Minister has frequently referred to ISP blocking of “child pornography and that sort of thing” in an attempt to stop public criticism and opposition, for example:
“ ‘Labor makes no apologies to those that argue that any regulation of the internet is like going down the Chinese road,’ [Senator Conroy] said.
‘If people equate freedom of speech with watching child pornography, then the Rudd-Labor Government is going to disagree.’ ”
(Source: “Conroy announces mandatory internet filters to protect children”, ABC News, 31 Dec 2007)
Senator Conroy’s attempt to silence dissenting voices failed spectacularly. Instead it triggered widespread criticism of his attempt to label people opposed to Labor’s plan as people who want to view child sexual abuse material.
Before and since 15 December 2009, Senator Conroy and associated governmental documents have used a shorthand description of “RC” material. The shorthand description refers only to a ‘worst of the worst’ sub-set of RC material (much the same as their misleading shorthand version of “prohibited content”), and hence appears intended to continue to mislead the public about the type of content to be blocked by the compulsory/non-optional blocking tier.”
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html#RCexamples
Unfortunately – the minimum trade is $500 parcel. I don’t have $500 to my name. So I couldn’t take advantage of your tip.
So I will stick to having $20 on the election results (trading out for an estimated $2.50 win irrespective of the actual result).
The absurdity here is that any site genuinely illegal gets the attention of law enforcement and is shut down long before its URL can end up on a list.
Thus a filter based on sites that hosted genuinely illegal content is a filter containing dead URLs.
LOL! What about Lolita (1962 and 1997). Or more recently, what about Hounddog:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0415856/
But you provide a very good demonstration for how nuts the RC system is. Why should an ADULT not be able to watch a film where an adult depicts a child, I assume you meant in a sexual situation?
Does that mean we should ban the crime thriller Night Moves (1975):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073453/
Or what about, the Lee Marvin action / drama Prime Cut (1972):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069121/
What about Taxi Driver, which has – shock horror – a minor (Jodie Foster) depicting a prostitute who is a minor!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/
All these films are legal by the way…
But at minimal cost You Tube could construct a mirror site that would comply with the legislation
Gus
now i exposed these religous funndo libartariens , naked in there ilogical & contradict loovely words , just let them spamm & spam awhiles , then fire more pro filter logicals , but at moment amusing they like headless chooks in frenzy at a Ingams chicken farm , knowin end is nears
Gusface
“We”??? I knew you must be Opus D. Do you ge to eat the leftovers?
Yet again what this debate shows is that there is no logical argument in favour of mandatory internet filtering in a modern first world democracy. Surely the rational response is that those families who feel they need the government to supervise their childrens’ internet use can have a filter of their own. Those of us without children and/or who are confident with our internet use can say no.
JV
Only when I have a jaundiced view of life.
Gus went:
They could, but they won’t bother. Australia doesnt matter.
The last time Conroy’s Dept tried to get youtube to remove content – well, the cows came home first.
How many of you are concerned that Conroy will stop you looking at online porn?
And you mean have someone review every single video before it goes to the Australian mirror? Apparently in the middle of last year, YouTube was receiving 20 hours worth of video a day:
http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2009/05/zoinks-20-hours-of-video-uploaded-every_20.html
Being serious…….there are already filters such as Net Nanny available for families, so there’s really no need for the government to legislate in this area.
Possum Comitatus@1914
They will once they discover their site is blocked and they get hit with a prosecution
Money Talks
ShowsOn
My 1905 was for you, but I erred and posted before I’d done a heading and intro. It’s continuing on the RC bs that Conroy is peddling. The libertus site explains it all very well.
Me. Thats one (1).
Evan: I don’t watch porn, never have. For me the issue is one of fundamental liberty.
Can I ask you: If Howard had introduced such legislation in his term in office, how would you respond?
I wonder how many years it will take Google to block that Hussein execution video for Australians (well, Australians who don’t know how to use a proxy server)?
confessions@1921
Howards’s Law was for ALL Porongrfaphy, legal AND illegal.
BIG difference.
Next…..
The funny part there Evan is that the moment that happens (and it will happen) – the problem ceases to be one for those of us who give a shit about this for reasons of liberty, but becomes a problem for Conroy and Rudd as blokes get their fav porn sites blacked out.
evan14
porn is the red herring in this to me
I simply argue from the point of “cyber sovereignty”.
We already live in “brave new world” ,best accept and work within the new matrix that is “media/communication”
So my understanding from that is it means ALL RC content, including movies and books that the incompetents on the OFLC felt were too violent or sexual for Australian adults to either watch or avoid.
Frank went:
You fail to understand the regime if you think that.
I’m opposed to this, along with most of Conroy’s other wacky policy ideas.
Is it worth me changing my vote? No!
Imagine Barnyard as the real Finance Minister in an Abbott Government – enough incentive not to vote for the Coalition.
ShowsOn@1922
When there is a Financial axe hanging over their heads, plus the threat of their entire site being blocked – MUCH quicker than at present.
I agree. But governments are too shit scared to tell parents that they should monitor what their kids do on the internet the same way they do when the are watching TV.
You misunderstand.
If Howard had introduced *this* legislation having proposed opt in during the election campaign, how would you respond? Are you telling me you’d be supportive? Mandatory filtering when the campaign promise was for opt in? My sense is you’d be all over it like a pork chop.
No Australian government would ever threaten to block all of YouTube. Some politicians are stupid, but they aren’t THAT stupid.
Google could simply retaliate by closing down its Sydney head quarters. That’s basically what they have threatened to do in China.
Responsible parents would be monitoring the internet use of their kids, at least those under the age of 10.
ShowsOn went:
That’s spot on. Technology brings with it costs and benefits – there’s a trade off where you never get something for nothing.
We get new careers, higher paying jobs, information productivity and things all the way through to forums like this as the benefits. The costs – well, parents have to pull their finger out and pay more attention.
There is a trade-off, there always is.
confessions
Howard did it to Australian sites in 1999 and Labor opposed it. No-one has explained why they opposed net censorship in 1999 under Howard, but support it now under Rudd/Conroy.
The party didn’t want the censorship of Australian sites but DO want it for those offshore. Hard to fathom – if it weren’t for the ACL’s tentacle marks on Conroy’s neck.
Confessions went:
They’d be howling at the moon.
Confessions
I actualy was opposed to the filter ,but upon enlightment and all for it.with bells on. and fox tail if needs be.
I look at the bigger opicture and the realpolitik of what the Gvt is proposing
And i dont limit my thinking to insular issues
ShowsOn@1916
You try uploading a video containing music owned by the Warner Music Group – you will be blocked before you go and do your ablutions – they have a bot which detects their copyright – all it takes is for a similar bot to detect RC material.
Wanna bet? ***
*** Terms and conditions apply. Politicians for the purpose of this wager means politicians belonging to the 2 main parties.
Don’t forget that Rudd also has close ties with the ACL.
Those of us on blogs like this one can get angry, but this isn’t a big issue out in marginal seat land – I doubt that the next election will swing on whether people want the internet filtered.
ShowsOn
Yes, most of which is legal to possess. You wouldn’t know that from Conroy”s press release and FAQ’s however – he’s a dishonest Dopus.
Exactly the same hysteria was made about ‘dance halls’, early cinema, radio and even television. The moral elites said that these new forms of media would corrupt the masses who were too dumb to appreciate morally ‘correct’ forms of expression such as opera, literature or the theatre.
There has ALWAYS been a sort of snobbish hypocrisy about the media technologies that the masses could afford to consume (or simply enjoyed), and that has always been expressed as a desire to censor.
Peter Young@1939
Funny that, considering St Bob and The Greens want to overnight shut down the Coal Industry and put virtually thousands of workers out of work and close down vtowns which depend on the mines.
evan14
Does he? Old Testament loonies? Is there a link for that?
I still don’t understand how it is legal to possess it if it can’t be sold, distributed, hired, or imported.
Is it possible that that is simply a grandfathering clause? i.e. if you happened to own a book in 1990 that, according to the 1995 classification act, is now refused classification, then you haven’t committed a crime by simply owning something that was legal at the time it was purchased?
jaundiced view@1944
And I believe Peter Garrett has similar religious and moral views to Rudd and Conroy
Conversely one could say that society’s natural inclination is to bring order to its constituent parts
Rudd and Howard both attended an ACL meeting in the Grand Hall shortly before the last election campaign. However, most of the stuff Rudd said wasn’t what they wanted to hear. For example, he said that the Churches should be against WorkChoices, he told them that we should be more tolerant to asylum seekers and minorities, e.g. Muslims. It was a very Christian Socialist message from Rudd.
Sssssh….don’t mention the “S” word.
Since when has compulsory blocking of some internet sites been an “insular issue”? If we were any first world country other than Australia it would be a major issue!
And Gus, the “realpolitik” of what the government is proposing with the filter is religious fundamentalist populism. Conroy on this issue appears to be firmly in the clutches of the religious lobby.
And it remains for proponents of this potentially broken election promise to explain the benefits and rationale of a compulsory internet filter for all Australians. To date I haven’t heard any convincing arguments in its favour at all.
One could say that, but it would just be a heap of mumbo jumbo that doesn’t mean anything. I mean what the hell does “society’s natural inclination” mean? There are all sorts of different human societies that treat censorship completely differently.
ShowsOn
No, it was intentional and the current various jurisdictions’ legislation came from the Law Reform Commission’s recommendations in 1995/6:
It is not an accident that RC material (other than the sub-set referred to above) is legal to possess in the vast majority of States/Territories. The situation exists as a result of intentional decisions made by Commonwealth, State and Territory Governments to accept the Australian Law Reform Commission’s recommendations in that regard when enacting legislation in 1995/1996 to implement the national co-operative classification scheme which currently still exists.
On the matter of possession of RC material, the Australian Law Reform Commission said:
[“5.16 Recommendation. ... The Commission indicated in the Discussion Paper that it did not agree that it ought to be an offence to have possession of RC films or RC publications, regardless of their intended use, merely because they are classified RC. Classification is done for the purpose of controlling dissemination. It is not done for the purpose of controlling what a person is able to have in his or her own home. Accordingly, an RC classification does not of itself mean a person cannot possess that material. It does mean that he or she cannot disseminate it. If the possession of material is to be banned, it should be to achieve some specific policy objective, not just because it has been declared unsuitable for commercial distribution. Banning the possession of material automatically upon it being classified RC would possibly be inconsistent with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.[32] Article 19 provides exceptions to the right to freedom of expression if they are necessary
‘For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.’
Being declared unsuitable for commercial distribution does not automatically place material within any of those exceptions. Accordingly, the Commission proposed in the Discussion Paper that mere possession of RC material not be an offence.[33] This proposal was opposed in many submissions mostly on the basis of the offensive nature of RC material and its negative effect on society’s morals.[34] It was supported in one submission.[35] The Commission is not convinced there is a special policy reason to ban the possession of all RC material and recommends that, in the absence of such reason, mere possession not be an offence.”]
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html#rcpossess
You could add to that Penny Wong.
There’s a difference though. Rudd may be personally anti-abortion, but did he force that onto government policy regarding Australian overseas charities? Rudd also voted in favour of stem cell research.
There are lots of religious Labor politicians, but they actually aren’t Tony Abbott clones. Many of them think that they can have personal moral positions that they don’t then feel the need to force onto others.
Umm
Its a nice prosaic way to descibe the LAW
you know the glue that keeps a society functional
and sets the boundaries
and gives us the guidance to ‘do the right thing’
Well, this is confusing, because customs WILL confiscate RC DVDs that are imported from overseas that are RC according to Australian law.
Of course customs simply doesn’t have the resources to check all parcels, so I’m sure a lot of RC stuff gets through.
Do you seriously think the only reason most people don’t murder each other is because of laws against murder? I don’t.
Well, this doesn’t quite make sense when you relating it to RCing media. If RCing was only “guidance”. Then it wouldn’t be illegal to sell RC films, because it would only be a GUIDE.
Criminal material is a different matter.
But Rudd is tolerating Conroy’s foray from the election policy into imposing mandatory censorship from a right-wing ACL religious moral platform.
There are exceptions to every rule!
The other side of this coin is that the religious nutters in Labor realise that their personal views are totally at odds with the views of rational thinking people and are prepared to abandon their fundamental religious beliefs in order to obtain power.
The question has to be why they are prepared to abandon fundamental beliefs? For the sake of power? So its power for powers sake?
This other side of the coin applies to many of Rudd’s actions.
I see nothing wrong with that.
Gusface
LAW is legislation passed by parliament, which may or may not give such beneficent guidance. Legislation certainly should not be accepted meekly and automatically as right. There are many bad laws, proposed by bad governments. (I refrain from attempting a list). WorkChoices was one. This filter bill would be another.
Sorry never said that
I just said a society needs laws to function
if you dispute this,then i feel the debate is useless
http://www.smh.com.au/national/labors-attacks-highlight-liability-label-on-barnaby-joyce-20100210-nscz.html
So we are no closer to a rational, logical defence of the mandatory fundie filter.
Perhaps we might get there by morning….
You implied that it was THE glue, i.e. the ONLY thing that makes a society function. That assertion is obviously wrong.
This seems to be the ad hitlerum point of the debate
No I specifically stated the LAW,its effect are debatable but it is the glue that binds a society or are you suggesting a lawless society is more cohesive?
The difficulty with religious nutters abandoning fundamental principles in favour of appeasing rational people (which IMHO has a good result) is that these same people are prepared to abandon fundamental principles (e.g. fundamental left values) in order to appease what they perceive as rational thinking people e.g. adoption of market mechanism as the rolled gold standard for allocation of resources.
You can always trust Shanners to look on the bright side:
There you have it, Shanners takes the CBA boss as saying that nobody will take Joyce’s comment seriously as a positive!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/colleagues-zip-up-barnaby/story-e6frg75f-1225828943161
PY
Maybe that is the only way to bring about meaningful change short of “forced socialism”?
It completely depends on what law you are talking about. The fact humans lived together for thousands of years without a modern concept of law suggests that there are some innate aspects of our nature that helped us live together.
confesisons
We didn’t see it last time it was discussed either.
If that is any guide, the best we’ll see from ‘supporters’, despite the overwhelming evidence against, is:
a general referral to Conroy’s Press Release and FAQ’s; ignoring the demolition of those; calling filter critics porn addicts (as has Conroy); and reversing the onus by demanding answers from critics as to why a mandatory filter shouldn’t be implemented. Although to their credit the more insightful of the party faithful have broken ranks on the issue.
Which at some stage we codified into LAW and embedded in our various religious consciences
eg thou shalt not kill
or
thou shalt not abuse gusface unnecesarily
And you need to decouple the debate from the issue of child porn, which as far as I can tell, everyone agrees should be banned.
And also you need to fix the OFLC classification system, which as it stands is a bureaucratic joke.
Gusface
I thought the Godwin’s Law point was the proposition that:
A. the filter law would be good because,
B. laws are good because,
C. laws are society’s glue.
In what law is the concept of reciprocal altruism?
And your second point that a sense of morality is a religious notion is just wrong, it is based on a complete misunderstanding of evolutionary psychology. It caries the implication that people who aren’t religious can’t be moral, and the outright scary notion that religious people aren’t psychopaths simply because they are afraid that god will strike them down if they happen to kill someone.
D. glue is good, just because.
Apparently Abbott had a chat to Barnyard:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/get-it-right-abbott-tells-joyce/story-e6frg6n6-1225828980054
I wonder if that means if he will act all lobotomised in the Senate committee tomorrow?
Shows
the link to religion was perhaps because ealr societies to an extent relied on the “priestly class to set its mores.
At no stage do I entertain or imply that people who are not religious are not moral
as a devout jedi i can assure you that religion is the strating point not the end.
i do accept your premise of evolutionary psychology but merely overlay that with the reality of what shaped and still shape s our judoe christian concept of the LAW
I don’t know if this has already been covered as I haven’t got time to scroll through all posts. Earlier, there was reference to closure of the C/w Clothing Factory and blaming Fraser and then Howard. I think you will find it was during the 80s under Hawke/Keating, along with the Govt Aircraft Factory, Williamstown Dockyard, various ordinance factories and possibly others. The Libs would never have got away with it. Might have been “corparatised” first ie put under an independent board but to be run as if privately owned and eventually shut down or sold off
sorry for typo’s
nod awaits
We are interested in moral FACTS, not what some priests happened to think, most of which we now know were just superstitions.
That was me. I thought it was privatised in 1981. I must’ve got my dates mixed up.
I didn’t hear this one today, but I think it might be going a tad too far, and may be counter-productive. The sort of thing you might expect from Belinda:
Barnaby Joyce ‘like killer Ivan Milat’
Graham Perrett, the member for Moreton, took the Rudd Government’s attack on Senator Joyce’s economic credentials one step further yesterday.
“Barnaby Joyce is doing to economic responsibility what (serial killer) Ivan Milat did to backpacker holidays,” he told Federal Parliament.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26706362-953,00.html
*off to filter my dreams like a compliant citizen*
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBPJZoWhnCQc&pos=9
Just what the ALP needs, to have to correct its own members for going to far in personal attacks.
From the article linked at 1978:
ROFLMAO!
Fran Kelly on Radio ABC RN is giving Abbott a magic carper ride right now.
Compare that with her grilling of Peter Garrett as now.
Peter Garrett is following the “I’m not responsible for dodgy tradesmen line.”
MSM and Libs better be a little careful about accusing Peter Garrett of contribuiting to deaths.
Fair enough too. If he has mandated the safety requirements for installers and they haven’t followed them, I don’t see how he is responsible.
Even though Fran Kelly was determined to hold him responsible no matter what he said.
On the ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816218.htm?section=justin
No mention of “quizzing” in the article.
La Grattan: “Peter is guilty.”
There is a flip-side to that line whihc is not flattering to a number of Labor state governments though. generally, State governments are responsible for safety in the various parts of the building industry. Few have done the task well.
If you think self-regulated markets turned out to be a dumb idea after the GFC, then I can assure that privatising industry training and safety accreditation has been just as stupid, motivated by the same flawed ideology. Several unions have rightly criticised the performance of employers in not training young apprentices in safe work practices. But the states are to blame for giving up on the issue and devolving responsibility in the first place.
The situation is now so weak that many state departments don’t even have enough expertise remaining internally to know what safe work practices are. They just make sure that employers and employees are notified of their responsibilities. They imagine that that will solve the problem. It doesn’t.
In my opinion the whole thing regarding Garret and the home installers makes no sense at all and is just a beat up by the MSM and the Opposition.
As I understand it the series of events went something like this.
1) Potential problems with the work practices pointed out to the Minister
2) Minister instigates a review of the guidelines/standards and developments and implements a training scheme for installers.
3) Minister orders a review of work completed by installers after a number of deaths and reports of shonky work
4) Review show that installers are still installing in a dangerous manner.
5) Minister freezes scheme and commences review/inspection of all cases of installation that may be affected by shoddy work practices.
Considering that the Government was not employing the installers and was not a party to the contract between the installers and the homeowner what else could be done?
http://www.smh.com.au/national/labor-mp-accused-of-rorting-payroll-to-fund-election-campaign-20100210-nscs.html
NSW Labor going from disaster to disaster
Have problems such as ceiling electrification, electrocution and fires never happened in this industry until now? And if they have, has the rate of them increased?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/trust-savvy-gen-y-to-smell-a-rat-20100210-ns82.html
just letting you know what the press is saying
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/radio-ads-breach-may-cost-neals-seat/story-e6freuy9-1225828923827
Labor really trying to kick Neal out of parliament
But the media in Sydney are out to get Belinda, they have been since Igunagate!
As I said yesterday, if Rudd and the leadership team view her as an impediment to Labor retaining Robertson, she’ll be out of parliament, regardless of how much lobbying her husband can do on her behalf.
Talking about the ABC: the political news coverage on News Radio is woeful, even to the point that their announcer this morning was claiming that Kristina Keneally had been asked to resign – completely erroneous, the news story is really about one of her parliamentary secretaries getting into some hot water over financial irregularities.
Radio National? No surprise, Fran and Michelle have swallowed the propoganda from the Liberals, hook, line & sinker.
triton 1999
I am not expert on it but the last time I read figures the rate of electrocutions in Qld did incrase after the shift in regulatory approach in the 1990s.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/weekly-tickets-a-costly-stuff-up/story-e6freuy9-1225828945544
NSW Labor incompetence at its best
On 1/1/10 they raise most ticket prices without informing anyone
On 14/1/10 they had a big announcement that my-zone will reduce the prices of train travel (mainly to pre-1/1/10 prices)
On 11/2/10 they find more stuff up in my-zone prices and most people will actually now pay more
calling NSW Labor incompetant is an insult to incompetant people
evan14
I do not think it is just the Media, I think Labor does want to get rid of her, but I am sure Rudd does not want to be seen as the one pushing her ….. good idea to not anger powerbrokers
It was a stupid political move to make a big scene in your own electorate and worst to have it splash around for a week on the front page of newspaper. Any competant politician will make sure they do not get in the spotlight like this. Even if she is the best person in Labor for policy formulation, it still make her a bad politician
dovif,
Good to see you’ve been back to the Liberal talking points shop. Hope the re boot solved your little over regurgitation problem.
C-O-M-P-E-T-E-N-T
The Australian really really really going after Kaiser
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/kaiser-lobbied-pm-before-top-job/story-e6frg6n6-1225828976648
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/when-mike-met-stephen-they-cliqued/story-e6frg6nf-1225828956098
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/lets-pop-that-450k-question/story-e6frg6nf-1225828951229
Did Rudd upset anyone at the Australian?
Laborax PBers continue to deflect criticism by using such weak strawmen arguments.
I like it when they use these lines. I interpret them as “LOOK AT ME! I have no retort so I shall just call you a Liberal, like Conroy calls anti-censorshipers pedophiles!”
The ice continues to get thinner and thinner…
Thanks, Socrates.
Not surprisingly, Hunt is in the House demanding that Garrett explain himself. He’s being gagged.
Actually, it looks like Queensland has changed their approach to more active regulation since the period of concern I referred to:
http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/electricalsafety/publications/alerts/electrocution/index.htm
Still, that report only goes up to 2004, so it would be interesting to compare safety records since.
I suggest you stop making posts from the freezer.
bob,
A bit hysterical for this time of the morning.
Perhaps you need a cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down.
This identity confusion is really starting to get to you.
You aren’t serious are you? The Australian has been decidedly anti-ALP for a long time and the noise just gets louder. This doesn’t mean that nothing they publish is correct or a good point, just that you have to read it in the knowledge that the paper isn’t known for its impartiality.
The new guiding principle of ministerial responsibility seems to be that if a sparrow farts in Queensland at a building site that has even an indirect, arm’s length connection with a Federal government subsidy, then this turns the entire scheme into a “fiasco” within 24 hours and the minister must resign immediately.
The gravity of the situation is not to be considered against the good that the scheme accomplishes (e.g. an eventual saving of hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars in electricity consumption, employment for thousands of otherwise unemployed people, survival of the economy through a recession that has crippled other countries). If a death can be arranged (whether due to the minister’s actions/inactions or not) that is an extra bionus.
Also not to be considered are the numbers of sparrows that would have farted had the scheme not been implemented. The situation is to be brought to light by finding beneficiaries who, although benefiting from the scheme, feel it is their duty to ring shock-jocks and tabloid TV programs so that they can whinge and wail (saying, “I’m sorry….” while trying to stifle tears is an advantage), and by political journalists (including Michelle Grattan) who feel that it is their “duty” to deliver government ministerial “scalps” as a sign of the testosterone levels in their systems.
The bandwagon is exacerbated by the same journalists saying that the minister is “struggling” to keep his job, whether the Prime Minister has given any indication of this or not, and entirely independent of any factual basis.
The article is written by Miranda Devine. It’s not worth reading.
Julie B got 2 seconds of air time before Albo moved that she be no longer heard.
vp,
So, Parliament got to hear everything she knew, eh?
The Australian did raise a good point
Why do the 100% government owned NBN need to pay $450k for a person to do government relation…. it is like Wayne Swann employing someone to manage relationship with Rudd
Spot the hypocracy.
GG
Twice.
GG
Twice over
Is the Oppo trying to put off the moment of voting about the CPRS?
vp and gus,
How very symmetrical of youse.
Today’s SMH letters page: tons of letters getting stuck into the journalist who yesterday was bagging Rudd for his performance on Monday night’s Q&A program, but the readership of the Sydney Morning Herald is probably 60% Labor anyway.
gus is far more elequent than I am
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/respect-to-rudd-for-keeping-it-more-or-less-real-20100210-ns8y.html
BB
Crabine was positively gushing about “two ministers in deep trouble”
The rest of her report was the usual vindictive rant against labor.
Her voice is my signal to do ablutions
GG
Sorry I must be missing all your posts. I seem to only get you when people quote you.
No, I am just posting what is on the front page of all the newspapers in Australia
It seems that according to the PBs, all the newspaper, all the radio stations and all the TV station are against Labor at the moment. In fact most items on Crikey and Vexnews are also critical of Labor. I guess that makes our media the “Liberal talking point shop”
If you do not like our media, you can
a. leave the country
b. use pb as your only source of information
dovif, enjoy your days now because election time will be a disappointment for you. Abbott has his own set of problems.
PB? Don’t be silly. That’s much too biased. Try http://www.pm.gov.au or http://www.alp.org.au
so if something goes wrong and the government have put money in to it in good faith
then its all the governements fault.
just think of the institutions that the above would encompass. come on
William i beleive the purchase of news papers are down, perhpas people like us dont buy them
I think rudds problem is that he is tooo nice and doesnt like offending people
This “broken promises” campaign will come back to haunt the Libs. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
GG – rofl. A good start to my morning. I’m not near a telly. Can you guys keep let me know what is going in HoR please.
PC where I am is running too slowly to log on to HoR site
In response to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters report into the 2007 election and also in response to the CDP debacle in the Bradfield by-election the government has introduced the Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Close of Rolls and Other Measures) Bill 2010.
The bill contains provisions that will
- restore the close of Rolls period to seven days afte rthe issue of the writ for an electoin
- repeal the requirement for provisional voters to provide evidence of identity before their votes are admitted to scrutiny
- modernise enrolment processes to enable electors to update their enrolment details electronically
- allow the AEC to manage its workload more efficiently by enabling enrolment transactions to be processed outside the Division for which the person is enrolling
- enable pre-poll votes cast in an elector’s ‘home’ Division to be cast and counted as ordinary votes, wherever practicable; and
- restrict the number of candidates that can be endorsed by a poliitcal party in each Division.
Mitchell’s ad for his show earlier this morning included the words “and why Kevin Rudd is worse than John Howard” …. The “off” button was soon after employed.
itep at 2036,
what chance do you think this bill has of garnering Green, Mr X and Fielding support?
I really hope the close of rolls, and the provisional voting part of the bill gets through.
Post #1608 at 4.20 PM said 80% FAVOR th Net Filter
Anti filterers Libartariens s then spammed for 9 hours till end of nite
upset that 80% of Aussies like decency , and NOT th obsene net child porn viewed in peoples homes that anti filter Libartariens here want people to hav th “rite” to view
1/ “RC Rated” Content under th 1992 Act is banned on th Internet & that Act provides for a Net Filter if necessary to bee implamented Conroy is now implementing that 1992 Act provission:
“This includes real depictions of actual sexual activity, child pornography, depictions of bestiality, material containing excessive violence or sexual violence, detailed instruction in crime, violence or drug use, and/or material that advocates the doing of a terrorist act”
j/v #1878. Illegal content (thats th sick RC stuff defined abov) should be subject to police control, as it already is, and otherwise be controlled by individuals in THEIR homes.”
And there is th sickly Libartarien: view of anti filters all in th open now:
of let net child porn be shown in home if people want to
2/ Anothr Libartarien red hering is to say just leave it to Law enforsement They know Police enforsement of laws for ilegal cocain , Ice use etc by kids is a losing battle , and therefore they KNOW simalarly that Police enforsement of net child porn ALSO wuld be a losing battle
Show Off has used this red hering argument (when you consider it against th poor success rate of Drug law enforsement with kids) when clearly he is reely opposed to a Net Filter on Libartarien grounds , and not law enforsement grounds , but is too scared to say so
3/ Simultanously anti filterers say Net filter will NOT stop child porn at all , yet they say th Net Filter is infringing peoples rites to look at child porn
Well there can NOT be infringing peoples rites if th Net Filter stops NO child porn !
OR
Conversly There is infringing peoples rites to watch sick net child porn if th Net Filter stops child porn
Which is it anti filterers ?
4/ Anoth lame excuse is these Libartariens a j/v ?Show off argument (who support rite of people to view child porn in there own private homes) hav no “FAITH” in Classificaton Boards rulings
Red hering because even if on there questonable decency standards a Board was consistent , they would STILL oppose a net filter blocking child porn , so there point is quite hypocritical
5/ Another Libartarien red hering is “its a lot of money” , implyin mis-spent So if a Net Filter cost lots less then Libartariens will then suport th Net Filter ? , N o they will not So this is another hypocritical argument
6/ Anti filters techonological argument is a Net Filter will not work anyway Whilst that destroys there libartarien argument that peoples rites ar infringed as they cannt be if th filter doe not work , there is a further logical flaw
Anti filters points rely on a 100% of net child porn STILL occuring even with th Net Filter operating BUT they never claim that , because they know they can not claim that & be credable
So anti filterers ar ACKNOWLEGING some net child porn WILL be stopped by a filter
UNLESS they wish to argue a 100% of net child porn will still occur depite th nEt Filter operating
or unless they wish to arguee say 95% will still occur but that means they ar putting a price on th 5% of abused kids subject to child porn , that gits re posted a million times on th net per each child
Anti filters do not answer either of these 2 possible alternitives that directly arise from there view
(whereas pro filters merely hav to rely on commonnsense effect of th Net Filter that a reducton will ocur
7/ Next anti filter argument is Big Brother 1984 will get you then why do not they also suggest to hav all Police , ATO , ASIO & Medicare fraud squads lists of “criminal people of interst” publicly published ?
In a Net age Big Brother Govt data Net base has been & conquered already , and we all survive fine Geez even Big Brother Govt massive net data of all peoples personel data even under 12 yrs of Howard proves falacy of Big Brother Govt red hering
Possum , Fred & Diogenes used this flawed argument
Most Aussies will NOT care about “net child porn CRIMINALS RITES” at all , only Libartariens care !
8/ Whilst I hav exposed flaw in why th Net Crims list is secret UNTIL they ar prosecuted , question is
Possum , Fred & Diogenes etc do you suport th Net Filter if th List is published ?
(Or ar you closet libartariens who oppose th filter EVEN if th List is published , meaning your objectons that it is secret become rather lame reely)
9/ I also note that if posters go back to point 1/t which defines it to include” there is a specific legal defintion of “RC rated content” by Govt Lawers that uses tg legal word ‘includes’ (read it) Only a zealot libartarien Site that j/v uses wuld seek to ignorantly play lword hames with word “include” , simply as patthetic scare mongering
10/ Did mention future rise of powers India & China and internet use but wont expand seeing Libartariens thoughts can not see canvass of oz in a big world of comunications & politcs competing messages and instead there noses ar ground in absurbly thinking todays net kids usage can be somehow “controlled” 24/7 by Parents
Possum “The costs – well, parents have to pull their finger out and pay more attention” Stupid
11/ Next inconsistent anti filterer point forgot is th Net filter IS an exisiting 1992 Law & Conroys proposal is ONLY implementing what IS already applicable to books , 7/11 outlets , TV & video Its making Internet consistant to these publishing methods You will not hear libartariens sayig to LIFT th RC rated ban on ALL of these medium forms !
(Because if they did then public wuld see there view is absolute foolish , so anti filterers again ar hypocritical)
12/ Next smear of (confessions aided by j/v & Show Off) is that
“the filter is religious fundamentalist populism. “
Since when is objecting to child porn anything other than basic decency standards (and not your athiest bigotry)
13/ Which of Show Off , j/v , confessions , Fed , Possum and Diogenes will suport th Net Filter if it was only to block net child porn and th list published) ?
About time Libartariens showed off there colours
14/ Anti filterers forgot that opposing a Net Filter banning of RC rated content is plain ilogical on commonsense grounds because our laws basically operate NOT to make a crime imposible to perform , but just just more difficult , (and with severe penalties for not complyin)
15/ Also on tech matters , google already filter there searchs and there results results as well I also under stand they’ve got initial develop of identafying child porn via an image footprint subjects to more R & D
It seems Anti filterers Libartariens claim they oppose child porn , but hypocritically say people should hav th “rite” to view it in there own home And further even though its ilegal
th EFFECT of there objections is to say net child porn CAN continue unless police by random or luck catch an offender , but even then they sy th offender is not an offender on l;ibartarien grounds
A circalar strawman argument that leads to but one concluson , about such Libartariens
Glad 80% of Ausssies agree with me , as per th Poll
I’m really not sure at this stage. I’d imagine it’s highly likely to be opposed by the Opposition but supported by the Greens. Xenophon I’d hazard a guess will also support it, perhaps with amendments. Fielding is anyone’s guess right up to the vote.
CPRS is on in HoR
Peter Young (1876t at 10.48pm, 10/2),
There has never been a Commonwealth Labor “lap-top computer program”. NSW decided on laptops. Victoria did not. The program was for computers, not laptops, for years 9-12 students.
Ron
Facts are if you really really want to view Child Porn, the filter cannot stop you, you just use the many websites that hides you details, which those people are probably already using to ensure the police does not catch them. I also do not know how the filter work with peer to peer communication.
Then there is the matter of the Queensland Dentist getting on the list becuase 20 years ago, his site got turned into a porn site. What site gets on the list, how can they get off and how much is it going to cost Australians to monitor those sites?
If someone posted porn on facebook. is the whole site filtered?
If some religious nut (Abbott/Rudd/Fielding) decided to classified abortion as RC what happens
We are moving toward China’s model of controlling “free speech” which I am not in favour of.
I think to use just Child Porn as “the example” is like saying should all Criminals get executed … well lets talk about the child murderer to prove my point …
We have limits on free speech now.
Yes, I wish they’d hurry up. I don’t understand why there are so many speakers when they’ve spoken on it twice before.
SMH are getting as bad as their ABC with their choice of the most unflattering photos they can find of Labor pollies
Check the ones of Kev and Pete!
http://www.smh.com.au/
The Member for Tangney is an EXpert?!!
Who IS this ignoramus?
Everything I thought would happen from the MySchools website is happening – parents pulling kids out of school, or being unhappy with the school, due to completely false impressions. The information is complete b/s for assessing teaching and learning. It’s tuck shop gossip on steroids. Very sad.
This give some insight into how false the impression can be:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/my-school-numbers-not-what-they-seem/story-e6frg6nf-1225828950984
Luke Simpkins, member for my old electorate of Cowan.
vp
dunno
Was checking out the JP morgan expert on Skybusiness telling us how there will only be 5000 jobs created in Jan and that unemployment will rise to 5’6% and interest rates will rise next month.
ltep,
Thnaks. Congratulations on no longer having him in your electorate.
jv – I wouldn’t be believing much that comes out of the OO if it’s about a Labor program.
Vera – awful pictures and deliberately nasty. The shots in the weekend papers of Tone will be all the bronzed athlete stuff, of course.
Have they taken the CPRS vote yet?
Chinese Chase Joel Fitzgibbons “mate” on fraud charges:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-chase-alp-donor-on-fraud-claims-20100210-nscq.html
Gee this Joel Fitzgibbon bloke real is a piece of work…. hand in the till, and yet another corrupt Labor politician.
BH
Still debating the ETS, not sure when vote will be
Should we even begin the list of ministerial resignations that occurred during Howard’s first term?
I assume you’ll skip right past this one. I would.
BH,
No. Everyone gets a go, apparently. Guess they’ll do it before QT.
Arch Bevis (Brisbane) now on.
jv,
Justine Ferrari, in the linked article, says, “The average-sized primary school with 500 students has about two classes in each grade of 30 students in each.” This is nonsense. The average primary school has about 254 students. Prep to year 2 classes are meant to be capped at 21 pupils. The overall average class size in Victorian primary schools is 22.3 pupils. Only 0.2 per cent of classes have more than 30 pupils in them, and some of these would be team-taught.
I think the message has got through: explain the CPRS in simple terms.
Some MPs, along with Malcolm, would have had their say on the ETS on monday wouldn’t they?
There may not be too many left to speak.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/queenslander-takes-control-of-federal-court-20100210-nsd2.html
It all seems very coincidental…
Thanks vp and Vera. Good, I’ll be back home to see it.
Interesting interviews for Fran Kelly this morning, I thought. Showed her bias beautifully. With Abbott it was all easy dorothy dixers handed out in a nice pleasant manner – even those about Joyce. With Garrett it was the opposite. The media are braying for blood with Garrett but the PM should shoot them down in flames and just tell Pete to ‘get on with it”.
Itep – good letter in the SMH you linked. Also the one about the cost to laundries was terrific. Additional cost on garment worked out to be ‘bu….r all”. The Govt. need to respond in that way to every question asked by the Opposition about extra costs. Then point out the cost to the taxpayer of their scheme.
vp
Hopefully it will be easily understood by the time the DD is called in Sept/Oct
Then labor wins 100seats and it passes in a joint sitting!
vera,
They sure did. I guess the only certainty is that it’ll be over by 5PM when they adjourn to go home.
I missed the Abbott interview by Fran Kelly but caught the tail end of the interview with Garrett. From what I heard he presented his position well.
Vote’s on.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/preselection-challenges-in-tainted-labor-seats-20100210-nscy.html
Oh… goody.
Albo has moved that the question be now put. Now we’ll see who fronts. Will Joe come? Will he vote with Malcolm? Will he vote with Tone? Either way, he’ll be very unhappy.
Expect this’ll get a passing mention in QT.
Got to wait for them all to come back into the chamber first!
Perhaps he will be delayed in the little boys’ room a la Minchin
I bet Sky and ABC hate that this vote will take away focus on their “get pete’ campaign.
Vp and vera
I agree … The Labor government should argue that this will be a tax/ cost to australian business…. It is inefficient because a whole new department will need to be set up to monitor how much CO2 each company is emiting, collect and distribute the proceed. (corruption?)
The cost/tax on business will be passed on to consumers (taxpayer), the additional cost might mean the companies will lay off staff.
The ETS will increase the cost of manufacturing in Australia for example our production of big screen tv will be more expensive than a country like China or India who won’t have an ETS … ie it is exporting jobs from Australia.
The tax will do very little to reduce our CO2 output, as there is no incentive for people to spend billions on windmills, solar or nuclear technology
As long as China and India continue to increase their CO2 output, an ETS in Australia will not reduce CO2 output of the world
Yeah, I can see a DD coming
He denies it and it hasn’t been proven. Nice one TTH. And you voted Labor? LOL
Scarpat – he did. There was definitely a problem with having to hurry it out to save jobs but Garrett said that a lot is being said about what he didn’t do but nothing about what he has done. He tried to explain but Kelly was one-track as she always is with Labor.
Strangely Abbott has backed off calling for Garrett’s scalp – he was subdued on that. He may be getting word that people will not really be blaming Garrett. – except La Grattan and her ilk.
Triolio on ABC had called for emails – hoping to get derogatory stuff about Garrett but they soon let up because the opposite was happening. Seems more were blaming the installers for not supervising the work.
BH, Tony is massaging his image – trying to show that he is a good bloke, not just a bully.
Which I assume is the vote to cut off debate, not the vote on the actual bill. That will be next.
BH,
E-mails? Haven’t they learnt?
triton,
Spot on.
Things will move quickly after this first division. One minute divisions from now on.
Chrissie is NOT indulged!
Malcolm there on the govt side, according to News Radio.
Oppo’s doing its best to put it off. Dep speaker’s having none of it.
Fair dinkum, with all this MSM Labor bashing and neverending praise of their straight talkin’ Tone I’ll be surprised if the next Newspoll isn’t 60/40 to the Opposition
I think looking to hold Garrett responsible for the actions of dodgey work is ridiculous
But what I find a bit odd about this is that Garrett is almost ostentatiously punctilious about process in his environmental decisionmaking. It would seem a low probability attack that he was somehow sloppy in this particular case.
What’s Pyne up to?
Chrissie: sit down!
Poodle trying to throw his weight around lol
Being shut up again
Pyne’s warned. Sit down!
Poodle warned
He’s on track to get chucked out before QT even starts.
Can someone explain to me what’s going on? I’m watching the HoR, but I normally only pay attention to QT, so I’m less familiar with other elements.
It is excruciating waiting for you guys to tell me what is happening. Gawd, what a tragic I am!!
dovif
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 10:16 am | Permalink
“Ron
Facts are if you really really want to view Child Porn, the filter cannot stop you …”
Well so if doew not work then that just demolished your Libartarien argument didn’t it !
and your “infringing free speech argument in one go
Just luv it when anti filterers use 2 contradictory argumnts , one destroyin th othr
HoR is normally a rabble. QT is the rabble plus questions thrown in that are ignored.
Gary Bruce @ 1037:
Hahahahaha. Judging by Mitchell, Howard was an absolute paragon of virtue. His audeince are chockas with Howard-lovers as well, so God knows what they’d make of a comment like that.
BH
Oakshot just had a talk about amendments he’s put forwad 3 times now and Combet just said they don’t support the amendments
Robb gets up and says this bill is ahead of the world lol
What was Pyne whining about a few minutes ago?
He’s a tosspot!
Who is this dep. speaker?
Rob Oakshott wanted to speak to some amendments he made earlier. Albo let him.
BTW Turnball crossed the floor to vote with the Government, a pity the rest of the moderates didn’t join him(presumably Minchin’s bovver boys put the pressure on them).
For that reason it is no wonder that we dare not become a republic,
You mean – ‘the dodgy bod’ who ran away from negotiating the amendments with Wong and came back bright as a button as soon as MacFarlane and Turnbull had completed the negotiations. Then made his speech against Turnbull in the Party Room within a few days – before his sick leave was up!! Cyncial, I know, but pretty obvious now.
The Acting Deputy Speaker got lost. The Deputy Speaker is tidying up after him. Someone needs house training.
Just as well he got replaced by Anna Burke.
Upset about PoOs he claims were ignored.
This look to be more organised in the HoR now that there is a woman in charge!
Tony will not be pleased.
He should have gone before he went into the house. lol/
Good on Malcolm. He stuck to his word. Pity that the Liberal plant ‘Grech’ turned out to be Turnbull’s undoing when Abetz, Hockey and probably more of them were involved too. They left Turnbull to cop all the flack. Perhaps that’s why Joe turned up to hear Turnbull the other day.
Every QT Tony gets to look at Julia, Nicola and co. He better get used to it – until he loses his job.
“Will people quickly and quietly return to their seats”
Sounds like a kindergarten class.
Bloody pikers! No division.
Unemployment falls to 5.3%. Expect the Australian to be downcast.
UNemoployment down
5.3%
confessions,
The commentariat were predicting up from 5.5 to 5.6. Ha!
15,000 jobs created in Jan
BH
Generally true, but in this case the story is generally consistent with many other reports and what those within education who I know, and friends who are not in the industry, are saying.
It also stands to reason on the objective level, because the raw simplistic test results do not refect what is happening with individual kids relative to their inherent intellectual and emotional limitations. They just reflect the socio-economic location.
There is an ever-changing mix of kids in every school from year to year (even from month to month) which defies relative assessment by school, by teacher or by anything else – let alone the hilarious 60 ‘like’ schools which has been shown to be utter crap.
The stimpac is working a treat.
They dodged a division – there must have been some other floor-crossers besides Turnbull.
JP morgan expert on Skybusiness earlier said there will only be 5000 jobs created in Jan and that unemployment will rise to 5?6% and interest rates will rise next month.
The Australian’s take will be: with the disastrous position that Australia’s economy finds itself in under the current Government, people have stopped looking for work.
Joe will be out saying how bad these unemployment numbers are because interest rate will skyrocket
On the 3rd reading? Yes, but they had one on the 2nd.
Vera: Isn’t it striking how wrong these economists often are with their predictions, and the dumb MSM swallow them completely!
Of course there’ll be no mention of the unemployment figures on Liberal Radio, the ABC, in the Australian and other News Ltd publications etc.
The division that was taken on was, I think, that the amendments be agreed to. The ABC is wrongly reporting that Turnbull crossed the floor on the vote on the bill, There was no such division.
Ron
you just do not make any sense
The point is, if you really really want porn …. you can get it even with filter …. the filter won’t prevent illegal information from being access.
I might one day want to find information on abbortion, or might want to watch a south park episode …. that might get filtered … so I will either get it by another mean … or I might just not bother …. The filter might mean legitimate information or entertainment is not available on the internet ,,,, however Abbortion and Southpark are not illegal
The above 2 points are not contradictary
The biggest problem about the filter is how much it is going to cost
Did anyone notice if there were. I wondered about Broadbent and Georgiou because they sat with Malcolm the other day.
Great unemployment figures. Oppn line will be ‘stop spending we are doing TOO well’.
And won’t the government have fun with Sloppy Joe this afternoon…….a bad day for Hockey all round!
52,700 jobs created in Jan
the 15,900 was full time jobs
No they didn’t.
and still be ineffective.
5.3%!!!! I remember the good ol’ days when unemployment was 2% and people are allowed to take chances with employing the unemployed and are not penalised when the jobless person does not work out …. at least it gave the unemployed a chance
Yes, that’s what I just heard on Sky news. Even the presenter said it was astonishing.
Psephos
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 11:35 am | Permalink
“They dodged a division – there must have been some other floor-crossers besides Turnbull.”
Adam , maybe that also avoids record in Hansard of Turnbull crossing
Hard to believe. The News Radio parliamentary commentator is very experienced and was right there. I thought there was a division on the 2nd reading in addition to the one on the amendments.
If those nutters would leave the APH website alone I’d be able to check the minutes.
On the ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816296.htm
Excellent result on unemployment. I suggested several months ago that it had peaked after the August – September figurtes and that as more stimulus construction projects came on stream it would go lower. I was RIGHT
Rudd and Swan can deservedly claim this is one of the best results in the world, and has saved tens of thousands from losing their jobs, selling their homes, and all the damage that causes.
The real congratulations though, belong to whoever in Treasury did the calculations on how large the stimulus package had to be last November/December. A complex task, done under time pressure, with many confusing signals in world markets, yet done superbly well. It was just enough to get us through with only one negative quarter. Any more and we would have been creating unecessary debt. Any less and we would have joined EVERY other advanced economy in recession. If ever a public servant deserved a golden handshake, whoever did that analysis deserves one.
market up .86%
Presenter on Sky bus said he thought the jod figures were a misprint lol
Dovif – I remember the good old days in the early 80s when unemployment was about 11%, inflation was about 11% and interest rates were up there too. It was called ‘the days of Howard as Treasurer”. All 3 in double figures!!
triton,
I’m with Psephos: no division o nthe second reading. I was paying attention.
#2042 – Chris Curtis
OK….I should have known. Another NSW Labor stuff up.
Let me predict what the ABC will say:
SURPRISE FALL IN UNEMPLOYMENT!
Their business expert Stephen Long will be very downcast on radio!
A$ up almost a cent
The World Today should have some “informed” comments like: “This is why we got it wrong”, not.
The Midday Report on ABC1 may be better.
dovif
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 11:39 am | Permalink
“Ron , you just do not make any sense”
only to Liberals and Greens butterflys
You say filter will NOT work , ie child porn etc will STILL flow
But you say th filter must work because your libararien rites to view ar being infringed
Stop trolling 2 contradictory libartarien points
A really good comment. The Govt. should acknowledge that too – they helped an inexperienced Govt. do a fantastic job.
If Conroy starts declaring that people who watch porn are as bad as or worse than pediphiles….I will really lose my cool.
Is Conroy the Iris Robinson of Australian politics (she compared homosexuality to pedophile and came unstuck when she (60yo) had an illicit sexual relationship with a 20 yo boy).
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816203.htm?section=australia
“Figures to be released later this morning are expected to show an increase in the unemployment rate in January.”
Fail.
dovif 2132
We haven’t seen 2% unemployment since I was in primary school. Unemployment has been higher since women started remaining in the workforce after they got married in the 1970s. Most of the countries claiming lower rates than this have either restrictive labor laws/culture on women working (eg Japan) or just plain fudge the figures by not counting unemployed non citizens (eg Switzerland). This figure compares very well with most of teh Howard era, except for a few times in the boom when they got below 5%. Unemployment under Howard after the “dot-com” bubble burst in 2000 went back over 6%, so even JH didn’t do this well after a severe downturn. See chart 27
http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1683/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=Economic_Outlook_and_Global_Financial_Crisis.htm
Close:
Jobs surge stuns forecasters
Actually they did.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/info/liveminutes/index.htm
Item 9, 11:10:35 AM
vera
From my understanding of how it works, that is becasue:
1. the jobs figures mean higher business confidence and faster growth, therefore;
2. further interest rate rises are more likely to temper that;
3. which attracts foreigners to buy our dollar due to;
4. that likely higher interest rate and further appreciation of the dollar.
vera dont say that i will not sleep all week end
Swan and Rudd have credited Treasury and the Reserve governor many times.
I vauguly recall the weekend the shite hit the fan re GFC that Rudd Swan Henry Stevens and Treasury officals sat for 3 days straight and then Rudd was the first in world to announce Govt bank guarantees.
I could be wrong?
DaveM – the ABC has had those headlines every month before the figures come out.
They must be wishin’, hopin’ and prayin’ they’ll be right the next month.
Somebody needs to take their editorial staff in hand.
How funny that there’s been no mention of this on “Radio Liberal”, ie. 2GB and 2UE in Sydney.
Okay, what was the division after the division on that the question be put? That was with the male dep. speaker, prior to Oakshott moving the amendments.
Still can’t access the minutes, even if ltep can.
ltep
Can’t get to aph.
Ron
There are 2 points, I will make them simpler
Filtering won’t stop crime from being committed
Filtering might prevent people obtaining legal and legitimate information…. ie the blocked dentist, or information on abortion
No Filtering won’t completely stop me from obtaining information on the dentist or abortion, but it slow down the internet and waste my time, that I will now need to ring up the dentist or see a doctor
But the main point is how much it will cost
One wonders why they bother with these prognostications on the morning of the day of the release of figures. Can’t they wait a couple of hours?
They always get it wrong, so why bother with the last minute chicken giblet gazing?
my say
sorry about that
you take no notice of me, Aristotle is the one who makes sense of things re polls and we all feel better after his sane posts
Louise Markus is currently making the worst speech ever in the House.
The scheduled opposition speaker didn’t turn up, so now she is trying to improvise.
triton,
That division was on Rob’s amendments. Resolved in the negative. There could not have been a 2nd division reading before Rob’s amendments were debated.
Rudd on Sky
Giving “Closing the Gap” report
mysay – you’ve joined Vera and I as nervous nellies. Welcome.
But Vera is right – Aristotle calms us down. When you see his link after the next poll just click on it You’ll probably feel better after.
Well, I thought I heard the dep. speaker say, “The question is that this bill be read a second time. All those in favour…” and then they had a division.
I think he should LOSE his job,” said Wendy Sweeney,
whose 22-year-old son Mitchell died last week when a staple gun he was using pierced a live cable.
These ar word of a undrstand distressed mother
BUT they ar NOT a reason for garrett to resign due to poor training /supervison of a staple gun for gods sakes
and MSN stoops to gutter again , using a distreesed women to target Perter Garett
So has the CPRS passed through the House or is it still to come?
Reading these posts (last half hour) is like being a disinterested observer at a footie match as the urgers, welded ons and partisan supporters cheer like juveniles.
Boring in the extreme.
ShowsOn
I don’t know, I heard Michael Johnson (Ryan) making one yesterday that would be hard to beat.
Their ABCTV main story still Get Pete
wangkers
dovif wants Workchoices back. I hope Tony is listening.
It is very rare for an opposition to oppose the second reading.
The troll hates Labor good news lol
Ron – I looked at that on piece on the ABC site and most of the comments are against the installers which is interesting. Of course, PG will have to have all the answers today but seems people still think he’s genuine.
The Liberals better be careful accusing Garrett of murder, as it seems one or two of them are coming very close to doing.
As for the mother of one of the young blokes who tragically died last week – why on earth would she allow herself to be used in a Liberal smear campaign? Is this any way to deal with your grief?
what is the link to aristotle
No you’ve got it wrong. They have the second reading before the Consideration In Detail stage, which is where they consider amendments. After the CID stage they have a third reading. No division was called on the third reading but it was called on the second reading.
Because they’re just busting to be publish the words:
or
Peter Young
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
“Reading these posts (last half hour) is like being a disinterested observer at a footie match as the urgers, welded ons and partisan supporters cheer like juveniles.
BORING in the extreme.”
hav same answer as morons who complain hows i write
YOU do not fark hav to read , you choose to yourself
yes i have read them too just say i went to hospital and died
because the government fund hospitals is that the ministers fault
No of course not
Tony is trying to make people forget about branaby and other things.
dovif
I was in primary school then; how old were you? Were you actually in the job market? Weren’t workplace awards and minimum wages much more restrictive back then? Didn’t we still have the “living wage case” until abolished in 1978 IIRC?
In short, I am having doubts about your memory here.
Now you know what it is like when I turn on and there’s this poster who has post after bloody post on the NSW government and it’s leader in particular, oh and his dog.
There is a solution to your problem Peter and I think you know what it is. Do what I did with Mitchell this morning. I didn’t complain to him, I knew it would be futile, I turned off.
i remember the day we got equal pay us girls my pay went from 25 dollars a week
to 49.95 could never work that one out.
Well perhaps you could start us off on some interesting discussion then.
Fortunately, I’ve not been in her situation, but I think that a desire to lash out at anyone or anything is a real reaction to cope with the grief.
Best to give her the benefit of the doubt.
The libs will over play their hand on Garrett.
Just came across this online poll.
Gives you an idea of their quality!
With the unemployment rate falling to 5.3% the govt will certainly be feeling cocky today. Oppo will focus on the interest rate rises to come, but cant the govt still claim record lows on their watch??
Apart from the fluff and bluster about Garret and insulation (its serious for those affected and people have died, but isnt this kind of thing more covered under state OHS type laws??), seems all the Oppo have to really pursue in is CPRS.
I got an email from the Greens yesterday. Part of it said:
“Last month we wrote to you about the Greens’ proposal to break the political deadlock over the Rudd government’s CPRS. We urged all parties to embrace Professor Garnaut’s suggestion of a two year interim scheme with a fixed carbon price, no trading and no offsets.
I am very pleased to tell you today that we are now in constructive negotiations with the government around this proposal.”
It was an appeal for support by writing letters to papers so yup, the Greens are trying to pressure the Govt into a deal. Fair nuff. But, it makes me wonder whether or not the Govt is shaping up to accept Green amendments when this goes to the Senate??
I think some of the commentary, particularly in the OO about it being pollitically bad for the Govt to “back down” on anything to do with the CPRS is plain, partisan, bollocks. IF they can craft a deal that will pick up Green, X, and 1 or 2 Lib defectors in the Senate, and that sets a price on carbon NOW, then i think it will wind up being a massive political plus. It will show that they are flexible enough to accept current political reality (and that goes for the ALP as well as the Greens) and do the best job they can under the circumstances they have to work with.
How that would affect the vote/polling i’m not sure. Once something is in place I think it will solidify peoples positions for and against where they already have their attitude sorted, but may make some of the undecided’s break the Govts way on the basis that they have shown themselves effective on the issue?
Would also make Abbott look like a goose, cause Barnaby to rabidly froth, foam and say more di#$head things, and contribute to Liberal instability overall, and that has to be worth doing just on general principles and for the entertainment value it provides to PB’ers!
This filter thing is becoming an embarrassment to everyone but the ACL. Google sees through the Minister’s b/s as to what RC content actually is:
2191 link:
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html
I know some people who work in the sex industry…..maybe it’s time they got Conroy in a position where he needs to be..a la Iris Robinson.
Could be fun trying…..:lol:
BH,
It passed. And about 10 related bills.
Surprise, surprise – “The World Today” on ABC Radio ignores the unemployment figures, and leads with the supposed Garrett scandal – Ho Hum!
No, the difference was that the vast majority of women simply didn’t work, therefore they weren’t counted in the unemployment stats (they weren’t part of the labour market because they weren’t “actively seeking work”.)
Peter Young: one visual image I don’t want to see is Conroy visiting a porn site.
Feel free to leave and never come back.
QUICK, where’s Frank! According to him, the government should now block the ENTIRE youtube.com address.
Sounds like Ken Henry had to educate Barnaby.
Bet you had a great celebration, mysay. And those nasty old Union people that John Howard hates so much negotiated it for us.
BTW – I thought Tony Jones was a bit strange on Lateline last night when he kept on mentioning that the poor blokes who were killed were not members of a Union.
Is he now saying that everyone should join a Union so they will be protected from shysters like crooked insulation installers?
It’s a pretty good insurance policy. If they were union members the union would provide them with all the legal assistance they need.
Seconded.
Gary Bruce
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:09 pm | Permalink
‘Reading these posts (last half hour) is like being a disinterested observer at a footie match as the urgers, welded ons and partisan supporters cheer like juveniles.’
“Now you know what it is like when I turn on and there’s this poster who has post after bloody post on the NSW government and it’s leader in particular, oh and his dog.
There is a solution to your problem Peter and I think you know what it is. Do what I did with Mitchell this morning. I didn’t complain to him, I knew it would be futile, I turned off.”
Gary , how come you keep showin how more civilised you ar than me to PY
Ron
“hav same answer as morons who complain hows i write
YOU do not fark hav to read , you choose to yourself”
Took them till 12:21 to get around to the unemployment figure.
Just expressing my opinion. Do you have a problem with that ?
Wow, the indigenous life expectancy gap is rapidly closing. This is good stuff, and one in the eye for those who claim the apology was all symbolism and not backed up with tangible action.
Peter Young (2141 at 11.46am),
It’s not a “stuff-up” to choose laptops over desktops. There are arguments both ways.
You can bet you house on ABC giving Rudd a bad write up on “closing the Gap’ and unemployment will be lucky to get a mention in the first 15mins of their 7pm TVnews
Ron, I’m trying to help you regain your mantle as “most hated”. I’m generous that way.
I like your approach BTW.
Yes – I agree with that, SO , especially for young blokes. I was surprised at the line Jones kept pounding tho. I didn’t hear him so stridently telling Howard that a Union is the go. He would have been too scared.
Musrum’s gift never stops giving
Not at all Peter but you seem to.
We’ll be a laughing stock around the world before long:
["They [Google] don’t control the access in Australia – all their equipment that would do this is hosted overseas … and I would find it very hard to believe that the Australian government can in any way force an American company to follow Australian law in America,” Landfeldt said.
“Quite frankly it would really not be workable … every country in the world would come to Google and say this is what you need to do for our country. You would not be able to run the kind of services that Google provides if that would be the case.”]
Gary Bruce
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
“Ron, I’m trying to help you regain your mantle as “most hated”. I’m generous that way.”
indeed you ar
Ron is the real “straight talker’ unlike Abbott!
In QT will the opposition know whether they are Arthur or Martha?: unemployment, closing the gap, CPRS. All they have left is Peter Garrett and I don’t think that’s going anywhere.
Ronald, you could’ve abbreviated this simply to “Indeed U R”
Sadly the MSM aren’t interested in aborigines, so Rudd’s speech will get zero coverage, regardless of its obvious merits.
Rudd’s speech is live on Sky, i give them credit for that
All of this is verifiable, correct, and completely at odds with Conroy’s attempted snow job on the voters. Would 80% support the filter if they knew, and understood, this?:
Some producer is about to get sacked by Murdoch: how dare he or she deviate from the “Abbott Is Wonderful” script!
Poms like our voting system
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816611.htm?section=justin
jv,
Probably increase to 90%.
Good to see you out tilting at those windmills again.
Joel Fitzgibbon needs to be sacked immediately and pay and super withdrawn until the corruption charges have been fully investigated.
If we want to talk boring, this filter stuff has been done to death, over and over again
Truthy,
So sentence first, then the trial.
Australia has a system where you’re innocent until proven guilty.
Love it, or leave. Your choice.
OMG! Wasn’t Abbott listening to Rudd’s address? No evidence of change?! The life expectancy gap has rapidly declined.
Denialist claptrap on Aboriginals. The usual stuff from the Liberals.
Any studies done on the effect of a change to preferential voting? My suspicion is that it will greatly benefit the big 2 parties (Labour and Conservative).
Look TruthHurty – Unemployment down. The RUDD RECOVERY continues!
(sounds of crickets chirping)
Where are the figures available from. I would like to examine them (I wrote an essay last year on this subject and would like to update my knowledge with the latest figures – presumably 2009 figures).
Antony has a post about the issue:
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/02/uk-labour-government-set-to-adopt-alternate-preferential-voting.html
Preferential voting will help Labour in Scotland, where the Scottish Nationalists often suck votes away from Labour under first-past-the-post.
vera
Not by Conroy’s defenders. They haven’t struck a blow to justify on its merits the filter this time around – just pointed to one part of one dodgy poll.
The Rudd growth continues:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6202.0?OpenDocument
confessions
so the ABC headline will be
Not to mention that Frank thinks the entire YouTube.com website, the 3rd or 4th most popular website on the entire internet, should be banned for those in Australia.
It should really be Rudd Rebound or Rudd Recovery so you get the alliteration right, like Rudd Recession.
vera,
jv thinks his stream of conciousness rants are taken seriously.
I suppose if you stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes that’s true
jv
I don’t really give a damn about the filter, I’m happy for those who do to have their say, the scrolling through is giving my pinky RSI is all
He should see a doctor about that…
The Australian tells it how it is for once:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/unemployment-rate-falls-as-employers-create-jobs-for-52700-abs-data-shows/story-e6frg926-1225829141465
Vera
I get the sense from Abbott that he’d just love to run a fear campaign on aboriginals, just like with asylum seekers, but doesn’t quite know what would be picked up on the dog whistle. So far we’ve had a veneer of denialism over the stolen generations, no change in conditions, the glory years of past decades, and now he’s trying out the “no one rule for them one for us” which is sure to appeal to the rednecks out there.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/malcolm-turnbull-crosses-floor-in-parliament-to-support-rudds-emissions-trading-scheme/story-e6frg6n6-1225829127204
alexandra kirk abc TWT
Your use of lib talking points is duly noted!
When the Rudd government was elected, there were 10.5321 million people employed in Australia. There are now 10.9382 million people employed.
Therefore, the Rudd government has created a net 406,000 jobs, DURING the global financial crisis.
Jaundiced View
I do appreciate your comments on the Filter. You add material backed up with references and play an important role in educating people like me who do not have a working knowledge of the system.
Please continue to post quality material as you have (generally) always done.
GG
I skip most of the filter stuff but have to say the 80% for caught my eye
Abbott is going for his annual trip to Cape York later this year, but he ISN’T a ‘seagull’.
So far I haven’t heard anything of substance from Abbott, just a bunch of whiny feel good platitudes. It’s no use just wondering these things Tone, you need to have answers to back it up.
I agree with Peter JV but I will go a step further. I also welcome those that oppose JV’s views and those that have various opinions on all topics whether they be boring or not.
Petro had a toilet break. I’m sure that was a relief.
In regard to the possible move to preferential in the UK
If the House of Lords opposes it they can delay it for a year. This means it’s highly unlikely to be implemented before this election at least.
The Government should call the opposition’s bluff, and propose a national foil insulation installation training program.
vera
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:48 pm | Permalink
“GG I skip most of the filter stuff but have to say the 80% ( in favor of Filter) for caught my eye “
Hi Vera , but anti filterers want everyone not to see 80% Aussies suport decency
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
“Google says it will not WILLINGLY comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules”
So Google CAN filter per govt requirements
But we knew that already because Google already filter there searchs and also there search results
anothr own goal by anti filterers as there arguments crumble into allowing net child porn.
The proposal is for the voting method of the following election (2015).
You can be sure Abbott’s BS on closing Gap will be touted as wonderfull by all his fawning media stooges
If any government filters youtube.com, it will be thrown out at the following election.
Notice how every positive point Abbott makes about the government’s efforts regarding Aboriginals is quickly followed with a “but”.
The foreign minister Kevin Rudd says the lib female supporter on Sky. She was on AM agenda this morning backing up the poodle and cutting off Albo in the middle of every sentence
NITV reporter just said on Sky that the gap won’t be closed in a Labor tenure in government.
Soothsayer much?
And yet we have had nothing but screaming from the rooftops about how our civil liberties are a fingernail from disappearing…
I see. Well I can’t see why a Conservative Government would change to preferential. Surely they are the big winners from FPTP as the vote would be split in some electorates between Labour and the Liberal Democrats.
back on about “one term Rudd” now are we?
There’s some politics behind this, Brown wants to get Cameron to commit to the proposal, because if Labor loses, he thinks it will help Labor at the following election.
WTF?
My request is simple: name one rational, logical argument in favour of *mandatory* internet filtering that actually holds water. I’m yet to see such an argument, and have already concluded that none exist.
It isn’t likely to be a vote changer for me, but as a taxpayer I do have a preference that government policy is based on evidence of effectiveness.
Anyone got a link to the 2010 Closing the Gap report?
Or isn’t it up on the web yet?
Monckton didn’t show up to a prior-arranged engagement because he had … HEATSTROKE!!
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/musical-monckton-melts-in-remote-aussie-burg-20100211-nstj.html
For these people the only reason they need is that it’s proposed and supported by the ALP Government. There’s no arguing with some people.
Sky main story still trying to get rid of Pete, backing up the Libs
Bet if unemployment went up it would be a different matter
Vera
First principle of journalism. Good news stories don’t sell newspapers.
Do you have a problem with the “news industry”?
PY
Why dont you Google it!
Vera
the fiberistas are crying in their cups
The shame the shame
http://www.pcworld.com/article/189051/google_ultrafast_broadband_may_shake_up_fiber_market.html
Don’t worry about the Laborax on here… they’ll interpret anything in any way even if it makes no sense… it’s how their minds work…
gusface
Wonder will we get to see it on the news tonight?
We might need that filter after all
LOL, there have been plenty. You just don’t accept them. Case in point, that all other forms of media already use RC.
Aussieguru
I did. But possibly not “into google” yet (geeks can explain that-not me).
Also searched the Dept’s website, but couldn’t find it. Thats why I asked here – I thought those speaking on the subject already must have read it.
Cuppa – what access speed is the NBN supposed to deliver? (cf 1 gigabyte/second)
^ that should be ‘that all other forms of media already restrict RC’
Vera, Abbott and his gerrymen and merrywomen can huff and puff whatever they like about ETS, The Oils, Debts etc etc. As long as the unemployment is at 5.3%, basically full employment, the punters are happy and the Govt is happy.
Who do you trust to run the $1T Australia’s Economy????
Laocoon,
100 megabytes per second?
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/ets-safely-through-reps/1748519.aspx
confessions,
The reasons have been posted. If you choose to discount same then that is your choice. However, afaik the only new information provided in this latest outpouring of dreary “defence of our liberty” type guff and the “it can’t be done” droning by the know betters is the fact that a poll showed 80% of the public support the filter.
Seems like the anti filterites are about to be trumped by the tyranny of democracy.
Thanks cuppa
So which Bill is it that passed the HofR’s? The original Labor Bill or the Turnbull bill?
Peter,
It would have to be the Turnbull one: he would not have supported the original bill.
confessions
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 1:02 pm | Permalink
“My request is simple: name one rational, logical argument in favour of *mandatory* internet filtering”
to block net child porn , for any decent human being that would be enuf reason
Google per th quote CAN and WILL filter per th Govt requirements
Google we already knew can filter as said anyway , they filter there searchs and search results
Many othr logical reasons also been posted by guys here
(But Dario #2280 , your posts says it all)
The current bill is the Wong-Macfarlane agreement bill. If the Senate rejects it again Labor will have a DD trigger on that version of the ETS.
Finns
the fibs’ debt scare is coming unravelled
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/australian-govt-debt-extremely-low-20100211-ntvw.html
Same inane argument being sprouted by ltep now. You can’t agree with the government now without being accused of being a non thinker. A bloody put down if ever there was one.
I think speeds are normally measured in bits, not bytes, since that’s the fundamental unit.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/turnbull-crosses-floor-to-vote-with-labor-20100211-nts2.html
What an embarrassment.
They could already have an election with that version of the bill as a trigger. The current bill is not technically a DD bill because 3 months haven’t passed since the defeat of the Wong-Macfarlane bill.
Bring on the DD.
In 100 years time history students will read about Rudd going to the people seeking a mandate for the Turnbull designed bill.
So much for the Abbott and Pyne saying they are a Party who allows members to cross the floor. When it came to it they turned into hypocrites. Too scared to have it registered in Hansard. Were they worried that other Libs would follows Malcolm? They were a bunch of chickens when it came time to be counted.
I might be wrong but I thought Bob Katter voted FOR the bill last time.
PY
if, in 100 years time, students are in a position to read such things, it will mean that the CPRS has worked.
Of course, by about that time, the Greens might have enough numbers in the House to get a bill through themselves…
Just on unemployment
The Tories take charge in NZ and their unemployment jumped to 7.2%
There was a time when theirs was lower than ours!
I think that’s giving a little too much credit to Turnbull. Perhaps ALP designed bill with Turnbull amendments would be more appropriate.
Psephos,
As I heard it, there was NO division after they rejected Oakeshott’s amendments. So no division on the second reading.
Is that what you heard?
And they are all either illogical or fail to hold water as has been aptly demonstrated by others. The stopping child porn stuff is a classic case in point: it is illogical to advocate for a policy that won’t be effective in doing what you claim it will.
If this legislation comes into effect then I have a feeling it will end up like the hoon laws in WA: constantly exposed as ineffective, constantly getting a run in the media to that effect, and in need of constant revision. Policy that is usually unable to be backed by evidence of effectiveness often ends up this way.
Peter Garrett now talking about insulation.
Come QT he’ll just say I told you forty minutes ago.
Snore. You just ignored the point I gave. Pathetic.
confessions,
I forgot, you are far wiser than the general population.
mysay
I remember the day we got equal pay us girls my pay went from 25 dollars a week to 49.95 could never work that one out.
It was probably part of a negotiated pay claim, so there was a probably a pay increase as well as the additional “equal pay” component. If the pay scales were restructured to reward additional qualifications (in Q teaching early 1969, to recognise undergrad degrees gained “in service”, and higher degrees.) If yours happened in the 1960s-70s, esp if you were a public servant, or in a nonPS job which followed PS scales (eg private teacher/ nurse) you could just about bet on it.
Not difficult (for some)
I know it’s a bit soon, but I did predict Labor’s 2007 win to within one seat on June 3, 2007 (Idle speculation: annihilation edition), so I’m willing to semi-precisise my long-held election prediction of a Labor win this year (first made on 27/11/2007). I say Labor to get 53-54 per cent of the two-party preferred vote and 90+ seats, with the Liberals to get 40+, with the rest Nationals and independents. I just want to get this on the record now.
It was a rather confused ten minutes, so I’m not clear what was divided on and what wasn’t. It seems there was one division, otherwise Turnbull couldn’t have crossed the floor, but I don’t know exactly what was divided on. Anyway the outcome is clear – the bill passed, Turnbull crossed, no-one else did.
The three months dates from the first defeat of Wong-Macfarlane in the Senate, which was on 2 December, so the final vote in the Senate this time must be on or after 3 March. There’s only four sitting days between now and then, so debate in the Senate will barely have started.
That too has been discredited: trying to tie the internet to regulation originally deisgned for traditional media platforms is equally illogical. We end up with people advocating the entire blocking of youtube, as happened last night. Totally unreasonable.
I don’t think confessions is necessarily wiser than the general public. However, he has thought about the issues. The public seem to want the filter to stop kiddie porn. However, they haven’t thought enough to think that you don’t need a filter to do that – just a Net nanny.
You haven’t explained how we fix the corrupt and inconsistency RC classification that bans films that are freely available in other countries like the U.K. and U.S.
I have proposed a system akin to jury duty so ACTUAL members of the public can vote on the classifications, instead of leaving it to unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats.
This is wrong, Katter doesn’t believe climate change is real. Tony Windsor and Oakshott both voted for it.
No you’ve got it wrong. s 57 of the Constitutoin says:
The interval of three months is to the date the House of Representatives again passes the law. That is, today. 3 months hasn’t passed to today.
Peter Young: she, not he.
My view on Filtering, on a cost-benefit analysis
Cost – a lot of money and a department to monitor it every year.
Benefit
- effectiveness – poor – will not stop people downloading child porn, as those people probably uses websites to stop their identity or where they are going from being known by the police already
- efficiency – poor – it might stop legitimate website from being viewed
- integrity – poor – imagine Fielding getting a hold of the filter
If this was a real world organisation, this project would be canned as a big waste of money for no results
Chris Curtis #
Have you checked the betting markets? Are they offering markets on the extent of a Labor win. Might be you can have a nice “win” and add to your stack – or donate it to your favourite charity.
What exactly did Kevin Rudd say about Aboriginal life expectancy? Was he quoting ABS figures, or some other dataset?
The ABS changed the way it collects Aboriginal life expectancy data a few years ago, causing a large change (an increase) in life expectancy of about 7 years when updated figures were released mid last year (the data was collected between 2005-07). The ‘old’ and ‘new’ life expectancy figures shouldn’t be compared, due to the change in methodology.
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3302.0.55.003Main+Features12005%E2%80%932007?OpenDocument
Given that the diseases that are causing some of the biggest impacts on Aboriginal health (ie metabolic diseases like diabetes and obesity, and cardiovascular disease) likely have some of their origins in the womb during gestation (the fetal origins of adult disease hypothesis), it could take decades for changes in Aboriginal life expectancy to emerge – no matter what real improvements in health are made (or not made) now.
Toothy better boil his water, wouldn’t want him getting crook
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/e-coli-found-n-qld-towns-water-supply-20100211-ntzq.html
Utter rubbish. Youtube would never be blocked in a million years. You just want the Internet to remain a wild west when it has no rights whatsoever to do so.
confessions…sorry…..slippery fingers today…..:
ltep,
I presume the legislation will be returned to the HOR some time in March with amendments.
Most parents wouldn’t know the first thing about installing it, nor maintaining it
Julia giving presser
In regard to the argument that filtering will just be like classification of current media… so the beurocrats are going to monitor every single webpage, image, word etc. entered into the web? How possible is this?
or just parents abrogating their responsibilities in protecting their children
Or not
exactly
This might be the case (although you would think the most likely scenario would be that it’s just rejected at its second reading before amendments are moved).
However, this isn’t how a DD works. It works like this.
1) Bill (version 1) is introduced in the House, passes and is sent to the Senate.
2) Senate rejects bill, or amends it in a way not acceptable by the House.
3) Bill is introduced in House and passed by House 3 months after point 2).
4) Senate again rejects bill, or amends it in a way not acceptable by the House.
In this case the CPRS hasn’t satisfied criteria 3) so it can’t be a DD trigger.
The bills rejected in December went through all the stages, though, so an election could have been held at any time after that date on those bills (including the amendments agreed to in the Senate).
*sigh*
ChrisC – you’re a brave and reassuring bloke to come up with that so early, but I like the sound of it.
Did Tony Windsor vote today?
Do I? I don’t recall advocating such a position in the past and certainly don’t feel that way about the internet now. My position is that government policy be supported by evidence of effectiveness, especially if the main argument for change is the protection of children. On the weight of arguments I’ve seen in favour of a *mandatory* internet filter, I don’t think that is the case with this proposed legislation.
Anyway, that’s it for me. No more filter discussion. The points for and against have been made and repeated more than enough times. My parting word on the subject is ’80%’.
*off to lunch*
Must be posting on here from a work-site. Mmmmmmm……..
abrogating /= abdicating
Should we also install mandatory filters on all DVD players to filter out the possibility of people importing content refused classification in Australia and playing it?
Itep 2328
exactly, if they see an American child with no cloths on being posted on Facebook by the parent, Facebook probably get a NC rating
[David Marr on Tony Abbott - 'Never in any election campaign in this country have so many seen so much of so little.' http://bit.ly/c3PX4u
From LatikaBourke’s twitter. Must have a read – Marr turns a good word
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816658.htm
I can’t believe these idiots actually think they are helping the cause, if anything they are just resolving the government to continue.
These people are cavemen. Don’t they understand democracy? At the moment they are coming across as communist revolutionaries, attempting to force change through illegal means, rather than use democracy. Yet they call the government communists. How ironic.
Hey peeps.
haven’t been around a while, but nice to see the same arguments played out… Kind of like coming home.
Anyway, just thought I ‘d post this here as it is kind of significant for Tone and the whole Lib Denial army. Looks like the hacking of emails from Uni East Anglia last year was undertaken from somewhere in the Eastern US or Canada… Hmmm wonder hwo that might be
http://www.desmogblog.com/who-hacked-cru
Fascinating and sad.
Peter,
I have never bet on an election, though I did win $10 from a friend on Malcolm Turnbull not losing the leadership the first time around. I thought of offering double or nothing for the second bout, but I’m glad I didn’t.
BH,
Tis better to risk egg on face than go without the omelette.
Astrobleme
Barrack Obama?
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html
“This week the Computer Research and Education Association (CORE) put out a statement on behalf of all Australasian computer science lecturers and professors opposing the government’s internet filtering policy.
They said the filters would only block a fraction of the unwanted material available on the internet, be inapplicable to many of the current methods of online content distribution and create a false sense of security for parents.
CORE said the blacklist could be used by current and future governments to restrict freedom of speech, while those determined to get around the filters and access nasty content could do so with ease.”
I’m glad Rudd raised the issue of Hunt’s performance at the press club yesterday, specifically the statement that the Liberals may revert to an ETS in 2020.
Anyone see footage of the vote? If so, was it good enough to see which Opposition members other than Turnbull and Oakshott voted with the Government?
Just thinking that it would be hilarious to find out that a few people – like Hockey and Pyne himself – might have added to the “aye” noise
well see they do see things on poll bludger re hunt or did some one remind them
simple language at last hal la lu ya
PY
Thanks
Gary B – Thanks too
Only when there is agreement with the government without an expressed rational basis for it. No-one has been able to establish an overall benefit of the censorship in the light of the expert revelations about it.
None, but Gergiou abstained. Oakeshott and Windsor voted for it, the same as last time.
shows on did you see one of the blogger yesterday write that for word for word
welll done i think some here should be researchers for the gov.
Pyne is a weasel. He hops in the pocket of whom ever is leader at the time. There might have been a few Libs toying with the idea of crossing the floor. But not Chris sPYNEless.
On Monday on ABC Adelaide he kept on repeating “I’m the fourth highest ranking Liberal in the House.” as if that is some kind of prized political position.
Give me another couple of weeks and I’ll work up to it ChrisC
how weak are the Lib attacks on Garrett. Pete would work up more of a sweat swatting flies.
Garrett is batting away the questions. Not troubled at all.
Yep, Psephos. It was already out in the ether when I saw my mistake.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816727.htm?section=justin
Would this be having an effect on phone polling?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/peter-garrett-blames-slack-behaviour-for-roof-insulation-installers-deaths/story-e6frg6n6-1225829115085
Those damn slack insulation installers, they had to go and get themselves kill to make me look bad
Where is the Member for Franklin who is normally parked right behind the PM in prime camera position?
dovif
You don’t know any skeptics or denialists who are VERY ACTIVE in the Eastern US or CANADA, who might have targetted the same scientists before? Perhaps they run their own blog? Or maybe work with the owner of a Blog, that might claim to ‘audit’ data??? Hmmmm???
Not looking good for the skeptics.
Why is it the federal minister’s responsibility for OH&S practices of private companies?
You aren’t seriously participating in this beat-up are you?
ShowsOn
dovif obviously wants us to live in a socialist state, where the state is in charge of everything.
Much safer than leaving things to free markets.
Astrobleme
It is not looking too good for the people drafting the UN Paper too.
Especially when they knew the Himilayas would not have melted within 20 years, but still put it in the UN report.
When lots of scientist were claiming that was BS and the person who made the claim was found to be only making an observation, but somehow received $500,000 after making that statement
There are plenty of facts and fiction going around both side of the debate
Wow Turnbull must feel big voting against his party despite his vote not making one split of difference to the final result.
What a silver spoon, elitist, out of touch, latte sipping wanker.
I thought Liberals all had a right to cross the floor whenever they like?
2367
Funny how the liberals eat their young
Itep
No, it is really a non issue, this part from Garrett really cracked me up
“It’s not the rebate that is causing accidents in people’s roofs,” he told ABC Radio today.
“It’s negligent or inappropriate, slack behaviour on the part of a very tiny minority.”
Yeah… those damn people who got themself killed … They are making me look bad …. it is not the scheme’s fault.
Not his best moment. A bit unkind to dead people
The Australian gets a good photo of Turnbull sitting with Oakeshott:
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/02/11/1225829/186855-malcom-turnbull-crosses-floor.jpg
Abbott and Hunt haven’t laid a glove on Garrett yet. It’s easy to feel the atmosphere in the House when a minister is in serious trouble (as we last saw with Fitzgibbon), and there’s no sign of it today.
How come I can still get youtube? Frank was going to shut them down pronto if they didn’t heel to Conroy and they’ve told him to go jump in the lake.
And when are the Libs going to charge that serial killer Garrett with the wanton murder of people doing their job? It is obviously his fault, and nothing to do with the work practices of their employers.
He sent them up there to die!! It’s just like the British Generals and Gallipoli.
Roxon is revelling in Abbott’s leadership. She’s dredging up every embarrassing decision he ever made, and she still’s got her old punching bag Dutton in place for good measure.
I should add that the right wing d!ckheads (and you know who you are) continually whine about how no-one takes personal responsibility any more and that everything is always the Government’s fault.
Well d!ckheads, look up hypocrites in the dictionary and you’ll see your picture.
The Liberals have talked more about workplace safety in the last week than they did in their 11.5 years in government.
Diog
theirs was not to question why.
Bad day Diogenes?
Diogenes@2373
Gees you and Show off are Far quips – I said if the penalty for refusing to remove RC material is for the entire site to be blocked then Youtube, or any other O/S site wouid be subject to that penalty.
It would be in their own interests to prevent being subject to such sanctions to comply with OUR laws.
Youtube already comply with copyright infingments – what’s the problem with compying with the laws of a particular nation – And they do remove content when requested by law enforcement bodies – do you support kids uploading videos of bullying and committing violence on other students – you mob would be the first to complain if Youtube refused to remove them.
Hypocrites
Frank Calabrese, so if country X passed a law saying that videos criticising their government were illegal Youtube should then remove all videos criticial of the Government of country X?
You’ve completely lost it if you think a REASONABLE censorship regime could ever involve censoring ALL of YouTube, irrespective of the content.
ShowsOn – #2351
Tony Windsor told The World Today on 4 June 2009:
TONY WINDSOR: I’m not a climate sceptic. I accept climate science. But to come into this place with a piece of legislation with a target of 5 per cent and using a market mechanism to achieve that target in my view is quite ridiculous. It will achieve nothing. It probably won’t get through the Senate. And maybe we’ll revisit this issue with more common sense in terms of targets rather than this rather ridiculous 5 per cent.
On 16 November 2009 Windsor moved amendments to exempt agriculture from the scheme:
I am prepared to support this legislation if agriculture—or food production, more particularly—is excluded from the remit of the scheme. If my amendment is supported in this chamber, I will be supporting the bill. If it is not, I will not be supporting the bill. But on its return from the Senate, where, hopefully, agricultural food will be excluded, I will support the bill.
I can’t access the Hansard atm (aph website must be down) so I don’t know if his amendment was accepted in November 2009 or whether it was defeated, so I can’t work out if he voted for the ETS then or not.
Abbott having hysterics again.
*yawns*
Frank Calabrese
China had asked Australia and the US to ban any sites that said anything about Tianamen Square, becuase it did not happen
Will you be petitioning Kevin Rudd to shut down any of those Australian sites
Windsor voted for the CPRS the SECOND time (late last year) once it included the Coalition amendments that excluded agriculture.
I don’t know for sure, but I can’t imagine Windsor changed his mind.
Can anyone provide me with a list of medical procedures that Abbott banned when he was health minister on the grounds that someone could possibly die?
the member for Franklin is a great member , she answers her emails promptly
or has her staff phone .
ltep@2380
Or at least block it from being shown in THAT Country, as they do for China.
More stupidity from the Anti Filterites.
ShowsOn@2381
They do so already for Child Pormographty – I’llremember that stupid segment next time you call for some right wing nutjob’s hate video gets posted on Youtube.
Hypocrite
Does desire to ban abortion count?
ltep
Had to get up at 5.20am. It hasn’t improved my mood.
Frank
youtube have refused to ditch the Saddam video which is RC and it’s beaming into Australian homes corrupting our bodily fluids. How much longer can they flaunt Conroy? Try shutting them down.
Abbott said Garrett should be charged with industrial manslaughter. Tosser.
No, he deserves credit for staying true to his beliefs, which is more than you can say for the other supposed moderates on the Opposition benches.
OH FFS! Child pornography IS A BREACH OF THE CRIMINAL CODE!
OH FFS! A video INCITING VIOLENCE against another person IS A BREACH OF THE CRIMINAL CODE!
I’ve explained REPEATEDLY why conflating these issues is just absurd, but idiots keep on doing it.
dovif@2384
If they breached Australian Law in regards to inciting Hate Crimes of course.
Abbott is accusing Garrett of “Industrial Manslaughter” and “killed” people. he is way way beyond the pale.
So you think youtube should be doing the Chinese Government’s bididng? I don’t.
No.
I bet Abbott hasn’t got the courage to repeat this outside parliament and risk Garrett taking him to court.
Has any serving Minister being accused directly of “manslaughter” before?
A facetious remark spoken and authorised by the Liberal Party, Menzies House, Canberra.
I expect there to be a lot of dredging up of Abbott’s past history as health minister now. He is a first rate clown.
This Manslaughter accusation could be Abbott’s Latham Troop Home By Xmas statement.
Frank I posted this earlier, I am going to let the professionals explain it, ie the lecturers who knows about the internet
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html
“This week the Computer Research and Education Association (CORE) put out a statement on behalf of all Australasian computer science lecturers and professors opposing the government’s internet filtering policy.
They said the filters would only block a fraction of the unwanted material available on the internet, be inapplicable to many of the current methods of online content distribution and create a false sense of security for parents.
CORE said the blacklist could be used by current and future governments to restrict freedom of speech, while those determined to get around the filters and access nasty content could do so with ease.”
This would actually be a great sensationalist headline:
Abbott accuses Garrett of industrial manslaughter.
ltep@2396
Believe it or not, Youtube already do.
Using your logic, the Anti-Filterites are now apoliogists for those inciting Hate Crimes like the KKK and other Nutjobs.
Lovely.
Abbott just murdered his credibility
Poor Greg Hunt, he always looked like a boy sent to do a man’s job.
I wonder how many deaths resulted from Abbott reducing public hospital funding. Time for some research folks!
And I thought I was joking in 2373. The Libs just get worse and worse. I doubt even Howie would have sunk that low.
Rudd’s suggestion to Abbott that he take a ‘very close look’ at Garrett’s statement to the parliament puts me in mind of the Godwin Grech fiasco. Methinks Tone is walking into a trap.
Frank, I’m not asking if they do. I’m asking if they should. I don’t think they should.
I don’t follow you I’m afraid. Are you seriously putting incitement of hate crimes in the same basket as female ejaculation, small breasts or other legal sexual fetishes?
The Liberals wanted an audit of the insulation scheme because they thought it was a waste of money. Now the Liberals are pretending that they wanted an audit into the program’s safety.
Frank
Check out these websites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQuJtwTU0zQ
http://webworkerdaily.com/2008/08/14/dealing-with-corporate-blocking-policies/
LOL! Barnyard is currently asking about debt, everyone hold their hats.
mms://DMZVIDEO1.aph.gov.au/HMS983A
He is asking about how much CASH the federal government has on hand, relative to the amount of debt.
Dario
not a good idea, as hospital funding is mainly a state issue
Whatever you think of the merits of the allegations against Garrett, he is well prepared, well briefed and hasn’t taken a backward step. He’s also been on all the media this morning and has stayed consistent and on message.
All round, a very impressive performance.
Diog
Bad day or not i hope you haven’t been acting like this
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/nz-doctor-lets-rip-at-a-fat-patient-20100211-ntza.html
Nicola Roxon has not forgotten about Abbott’s insult to her for turning up late for their debate during the last election. She was savaged, and quiet funny too, on Abbott.
More on the Robertson electorate.
The greens have selected Peter freewater as candidate.
He said:-
“It’s not just a two-horse race, it’s not Holden versus Ford. We can win this seat and I could be the first Greens member ever in the Lower House.”
Central Coast Express Advocate, Freewater to stand for Greens in vital Robertson election
Barnyard just assumed that all public servants will retire on the same day. He was corrected on this point.
You mean apart from Michael Organ?
Barnyard doesn’t understand why commonwealth public servant super superannuation liabilities don’t count as part of the commonwealth’s debt. It is currently funded by $5 billion in the future fund, but Barnyard refuses to accept that.
Vera, for poor Diog, it’s more like his:
A a severely obese foul-mouthed patient has been reprimanded after swearing at the often wRONg Surgeon
dovif #2360
Garrett nailed it! The slack installers ARE legally liable if one of their employees is injured or killed. They are even more liable if they fail to ensure OHS guidelines are not followed and/or that employees are made AWARE of OHS site issues.
I note that none of the workers killed have been members of the relevant (or any) union, meaning that the employer had no fear of unannounced Union site inspection, no one checking that all workers were given appropriate training.
One could, therefore, argue that John Howard, his employment ministers & anti-union campaigns are responsible for the death of four non-unionist employees!
vera
I saw that. I thought is was very funny. I can imagine the surgeon being told that the patient didn’t believe in the word “diet” and would he please stop using the term.
A very weak censure. Unusually for a minister under censure, Garrett actually addressed himself to the detailed charges against him and refuted them.
dovif@2413
[Frank
Check out these websites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQuJtwTU0zQ
http://webworkerdaily.com/2008/08/14/dealing-with-corporate-blocking-policies/
Businesses are well within their rights to implemt methods to prevent workers fornot being able to access non work related websites and tools.
And remember your hero Howard had laws which allowed the dismissal of workers for spending time on non work tasks.
So you’re basically advocating the exact opposite of Workchoices
The Double Standards of the Libs and their fanbois.
Tried unsuccessfully to listen to the House Of Reps online, but the webcast is unobtainable due to server problems. I presume this due to the self-appointed guardians of free speech running a denial of service routine again.
So much for free speech.
Barnyard just stuffed up. He says it doesn’t make sense for the forward estimates to predict positive economic growth, he thinks that most likely there will be recessions in the future.
The Labor response should be that it is highly likely that there will be recessions in the future if Barnyard is finance minister.
Greg Hunt is a colossal joke – tries hard, but he’s obviously been brainwashed by Minchin’s goon squad.
Finns, poor old diog would probably have the foul mouthed obese patient abuse him then sit on him
The unions wanted such a crime put into law in cases of extreme cases employer negligence but the libs under howard would have nothing of it.
#2392
Probably true.
What people are saying now about Turnbull, one can rest assured will never be said about Labor members of parliament.
Dovif and Show Off
dovif you selectiv quote AND show off you FALSELY quoted , all from one item
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
#2199
“Google says it will not WILLINGLY comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
THIS IS TH EXACT QUOTE
“Google says it will not “VOLUNTARILY” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word
you hav copy pasted
ABD THEN changed one word
I think Labor should go easy on this Turkey, keep him in his present position up until the election, let him do even more damage to the Coalition’s economic credentials.
Barnyard is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Finns
I’m going to try it out on the next sunburnt patient covered in skin cancers who walks in here if they say they don’t believe in using the term “sun protection”.
Barnyard thinks that we will need the largest surpluses in history in order to repay the debt, the bureaucrats keep pointing out that this is not true (the treasury offical also mentioned that our largest surpluses were 2% of GDP in 70/71).
This problem is caused by Barnyard’s simplistic, almost obsessive, thinking about debt, it becomes like an all consuming topic that stops governments from thinking they have hundreds of other things to worry about.
Dovif and Show Off
dovif you selectiv quote AND show off you FALSELY quoted , all from one item
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
#2199
“Google says it will not WILLINGLY comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
THIS IS TH EXACT QUOTE
“Google says it will not “VOLUNTARILY” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word
you hav copy pasted
AND THEN changed one word !
I didn’t quote what you say I quoted.
Barnyard says that since Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain are having trouble repaying their debt, that means Australia will also have trouble paying off our debt.
Yea. I couldn’t make up my mind if he had a great distaste of what he was doing.
Accusing someone of having responsibility for anothers death is a huge call. In these circumstances the libs trying to make political capital out of tragic circumstances is way beyond the pale.
Do they really think there are votes in it ?
Any blind freddy can see he was clearly referring to elected at a general election (not a by-election).
LOL, public hospital funding isn’t. The feds and states were chipping in 50/50 until Howard and his cronies took office. IIRC it was less than 42/58 by the time they left. Abbott is therefore guilty of Industrial Manslaughter. See how easy it is to make the connection?
The censure was on the PM for not gettting rid of Peter.
If the Main Stream Mice don’t crucify TA on this one ….
So Michael Organ wasn’t a member of the lower house because he wasn’t elected at a general election? Poor Michael. I wonder if he knows this.
Where was Barnaby this morning when these questions were answered
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/australian-govt-debt-extremely-low-20100211-ntvw.html
What was the unparliamentary remark that Dutton made earlier, that Julia complained about to the speaker?
Dutton is another of the tosspots on the opposition front bench.
Barnyard yells at the Chair:
He obviously doesn’t have his hypocrisy meter turned on.
Kevin shuts down QT. 15 out of usual 20 asked.
Its not a conspiracy against free speech. Labor are moving to a stronger market based economy. The denial of service is an attempt to encourage you to take your feed from a proprietary service provider, to whom you will pay a monthly fee, rather than getting it “free” as at present.
I couldn’t hear it, but since Gillard asked for it to be withdrawn, it will most likely appear in Hansard.
The problem with Senator Rubble is he can’t handle ONE CENT of debt. All other government issues are secondary to such idiots.
Dickson is twittering about the Speaker’s ruling. Naughty, naughty.
[telling nicola to get on her broomstick is hardly "grossly unparliamentary" as joolia claimed] – Dutton
The comments linked to below are a reasonable summary of what will soon be a National code of Safety as opposed to State ones at present.
It is being nationalised so that penalties are the same in each state.
The Buck will stop where it belongs and that is with the Principal contractor/directors of the company to be responsible for the implementation of safety ina workplace.
It is ridiculous to expect Peter Garrett to be in the ceiling of each house when the insulation is installed.
If you are the Director of a company i suggest you read this and take note. Then go to the websites and see where the directors are being fined anywhere up to $100k for someone breaking their ankle etc on a jobsite.
The charge of Industrial manslaughter will be implemented because there is little or no possibility of gaining a conviction for standard manslaughter.
Creating the legislation where the Company Directors are where the buck stops obviously creates a firewall where the States and Federal OHS are non gettable.
Sorry Mr Abbott.
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=cgej
Finns,
!!!
Joe has been wronged.
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Permalink
Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word
you hav copy pasted
I didn’t quote what you say I quoted.
UNTRUE , a 2nd time HERE IS WHAT YOU QUOTED:!!!!!!!!!!!
SHOWON
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
#2199
“Google says it will not WILLINGLY comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
THIS IS TH EXACT QUOTE
“Google says it will not “VOLUNTARILY” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.”
Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word
you hav copy pasted
AND THEN changed one word !
That would be the State WHS websites in 2455.
vp, maybe Dutton is not getting his!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe is away with the fairies (of whom he is one?)
No…it would be quite clear to any blind freddy that he was saying “first Greens MP elected at a general election.”
Ronald,
I have no idea what you are going on about. You are attributing a post to me that I didn’t make.
I find Dutton’s interjection quite amusing. I’m sure Nicola has something in store in return, though.
Dutton’s previous tweet:
And a lying fairy, according to Lindsay.
Ron I give up, I do not know what you are saying, I do not know why you think you know more than experts in the field of computer science, so I am going to stop arguing with you
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html
“This week the Computer Research and Education Association (CORE) put out a statement on behalf of all Australasian computer science lecturers and professors opposing the government’s internet filtering policy.
They said the filters would only block a fraction of the unwanted material available on the internet, be inapplicable to many of the current methods of online content distribution and create a false sense of security for parents.
CORE said the blacklist could be used by current and future governments to restrict freedom of speech, while those determined to get around the filters and access nasty content could do so with ease.”
Ron
Have you throught that it might be the newspaper that change the word ie like Henry when he finally figure out an one of payment won’t perpetually sustain jobs for eternity
YEAH! What a REAL ZINGER! calling a woman a witch has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE! Dutton is extraordinarily creative and innovative. I’ve heard that, on occasion, he even puts subordinate clauses in his insults!
Bronnie MPI: the govt doesn’t recognise the achievements of older Australians. RDS.
What is Bronny waffling about?
I know it’s been done before. Doesn’t mean it can’t still be funny at the right time.
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 3:45 pm | Permalink
Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word
“Ronald, I have no idea what you are going on about. You are attributing a post to me that I didn’t make.”
Show Off , i quoted your post INCLUDING th time 12.17 pm and post no 2199
EVERY POSTER can look a few pages back and see YOU made th post
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Permalink
#2199
Kelly O, by her looks, is in the same mould as the Mackellar mauler.
WTF?
Damn – the SMH doesn’t have pictorial evidence of Labor sitting with the arch capitalist Turnbull, voting for Turnbull’s Bill. Rather just a lonely capitalist – without his fore-lock tugging sycophants beside him.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/turnbull-crosses-floor-to-vote-with-labor-20100211-nts2.html
Maybe some other photographers captured the moment
In fact the Government has made it clear that it recognises and greatly appreciates the work of older Australians such as Bronwyn Bichop, Wilson Tuckey, Ron Boswell, Philip Ruddock and Bill Heffernan in making the Opposition look like a bunch of cranky old men and women, and thus even more unelectable.
corection
ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 3:45 pm | Permalink
‘Show Off , you deliberatly changed ONE word’
“Ronald, I have no idea what you are going on about. You are attributing a post to me that I didn’t make.”
Show Off , i quoted your post INCLUDING th time 12.17 pm and post no 2199
EVERY POSTER can look a few pages back and see YOU made th post
“ShowsOn
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
2199 “
Corection:
WTF x 2
The ETS is contra older Australians. Dear, oh dear, oh dear! Time to go, Bronwyn.
Bronyard is some how accusing the government of not allowing cities to be lit.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/jobs-explosion-reignites-rates-risk-20100211-nthc.html
Rudd cannot win LOL ….. rate rise …. Rudd’s fault
There’s been some good oneliners here today.
Have any of the top Union blokes come out today and talked about Howard encouraging people to leave Unions which left industry open to slack installers?
She’s lunatic.
I don’t think it is a foregone conclusion. The RBA may want to wait to see what happens in the EU.
Slack installers … probably all union member
Govt’s sneering attitude. Stop it!
ShowsOn@2478
A reminder for those who are slow of learning.
Author@000 on nielsen-54-46
You did not attribute where you got that quote, so unless it was someone else who made it – it is of your own making
The member’s time has expired. Please.
dovif
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 3:48 pm | Permalink
“Ron Have you throught that it might be the newspaper ( not Show Off) that change the word”
poor try anti filterer to cover anothr anti filter
Show Off now is even denying in his #2463) he made th post now #2199 on PB !
Further you of all people know i’ve quoted coretly seeing you been quoting from th same articel BUT you hav NOT quoting th article’s google words either cause it makes your case zero
What’s the opposite of a maiden speech?
WTF x 3
LOL! You obviously didn’t bother reading post 2191.
WTF x 4
Earlier I said I had made my last post on the filter subject. I lied. This is my last
So which is it CORErs? It will restrict freedom of speech or it is easy to get around lol?
A valedictory speech.
Ron, is it really that Earth shattering if someone did change ‘voluntarily’ to ‘willingly’? Aren’t they essentially saying the same thing?
#2495
Is Ron off with the faeries again?
Or sniffing too much fairy dust?
We’ve already established today that calling female MPs witches is unparliamentary, so I’m not sure where that leaves us with Bronny.
Which one do you believe? If you believe it won’t be easy to get around, doesn’t the idea that it could be used to restrict free speach worry you? If you believe it will be easy to get around… what is the point of it being implemented?
Dario
Both Future government can use it to restrict freedom of speech, which they can use to do
and
People can get around it
I think you now agree that it is just a massive waste of money that does nothing
Still where we’ve always been with her, Psephos. How could we be otherwise.
2497
In the cupboard with no means of escape?
Time for a stroll in the park with < a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter124u/4289707815/". Kristina
Can’t resist… just one more post!
That is both contradictory and laughable. And you wonder why 80% are in favour of the filter. Few but the converted will be taking CORE at all seriously.
*Signing off for the day to stop myself responding any further now*
How many other people here tell us they’re taking their dog for a walk? Maybe Peter you’d like to tell us when you’re going for a pee as well.
Dario
There is absolutely no contradiction
It is a tool that can be use by the government to stop people from going to abortion websites…. that is a restriction of freedom of speech …. ie that is the aim of the government
People can get around it by using peer to peer information, emails, going to a doctor
I cannot see any contradiction, the fact is people can get around filters, if they want to, but some people won’t in case they get into trouble… those people who won’t have a restriction placed on their freedom of speech
The ones that really want kiddie porn can spend 2 minutes on the web and find ways of getting around it
So the filter is useless and can restrict freedom of speech at the same time, depending on the person
Frank
HERE IS WHAT GOOGLE ACTUALY SAID
not what anti filterers were too lazy to verify ,
and hav refused to quote
ARTICLE says at start:
‘Google says it will not “VOLUNTARILY” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” content rules.’
THIS EXACT QUOTE hidden within th anti filter story of what Google ACTUALY SAID:
‘a Google Australia spokeswoman said that, “while the company “won’t comply voluntarily with the broad scope of all RC content , it would comply with the relevant laws in countries it operates in.”
http://www.aol.com.au/news/story/Google-baulks-at-Conroys-call-to-censor-YouTube/2424890/index.html
destroys anti filterers technelogical reasons that a filter can not be done
keep a copy , they’ll bring it up again
ps/ show off , instead of smart ars denying you made th post #2199 when you DID , you could hav said your #2199 was quoting j/v’s post but j/v’s post did NOT hav a link anyway , typical
No more Ron vs ShowsOn please.
Bernard Keane getting stuck into Kev today in crikey. Doncha just love the poor fragile little dears. For Kev to win again he has to butter them up. I’d say get rid of most of them. They’re taking up space and putting out to much carbon pollution.
Tanner’s got a piece in the SMH today re blogging directly with the voters. Might be worth thinking about.
2505
that makes the filter doubly useless and better still
WASTE TAXPAYER’S MONEY
which might be Conroy’s aim, he has been really good at it
What so they can censor out any negative comment? No thanks. If I want spin I’ll go directly to their ministerial or party website.
dovif, let’s pretend for one moment the filter can filter out all porn. Do we go with it?
Yes but it is not against the law to post content refused classification in Australia on the Internet.
dovif #2485
1. The contractor (ie installer with the contract) or owner (of the installation business) is not eligible for union membership
2. What part of None of those killed were union members did you not understand
Why are rightards know so few facts?
Itep – Tanner was talking about voters being able to blog directly to public servants as well for information, etc. Not a bad idea – might get problems sorted quickly.
Re 2513 should be “Why DO righy…”
Why did Hissy Pyne and the Libs refuse a division on the ETS bill??
If it was because they knew or strongly suspected that there would be other floor crosser’s in the HoR, then that may bode well for passage of the bill through the Senate?
The only reason i can think of for refusing a division on the bill is that the Libs have more serious divisions within their own ranks than they have been letting on, and that’s surely got serious implications for Tony’s longevity as oppo leader.
I wish that were true Imacca, but I suspect that Hissy wanted to avoid the spectacle of Turnbull literally crossing the floor.
Most Libs know which side their bread is buttered, and would tow the party line. They don’t want to be seen as disloyal to Abbott at this stage. That will come later.
I’ll add another reason why I’m grumpy today. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of sympathy.
I’m in Broken Hill and the hotel I stay at is often used by film crews. Mad Max is going to be shot here later in the year and Charlise Theron is going to be staying at my hotel.
You’d think that would be great news wouldn’t you?
But I’m informed that the crew will be taking up all the rooms (it’s only got
and so I can’t stay there for the last 6 months of the year. 
GB
is porn illegal in Australia? If no…. there should be no filter on it
If the Government wants to legislate against porn, let them get it through a representative of the people in parliament
It is better than having a department of the government make the decision for everybody
Imagine if a group of religious nuts gets into those position, I am sure most of the Laborites would have a problem with that
Why is there a sunglasses face when I typed in eight?
Not content with cricket matches that nobody watches, Channel Nine has now bought into a great white shark attack that never happened.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/normally-docile-wobbegong-shark-bites-sydney-swimmer-20100211-nszo.html?autostart=1
This dickhead claimed he was attacked by a great white, got his ‘exclusive’ ($$$), and now it turns it out it was just a harmless wobbegong. Not exactly “Jaws”. More like “Gums”.
Illegal porn is illegal in Australia.
What’s illegal porn and under what legislation?
8
oh dear, according to Shanananana ………… The Govt is a victim of its own success ….. sure Dennis, sure. and Abbott and Barnyard? a victim of their own stupidity.
Ozpol
Since they are inexperience contractors…. perhaps you should raise the issue with Gillard, since they were probably employed during her watch
I still love the Garrett blaming the dead for killing themselves …. those incompetant bastards
Dio – it is. Just ask them to put in with Charlize!
Diog, dream on baby. Is Mrs. D aware of your fantasy for Charlie?
Nyaah, kakuru. I agree with imacca. Not only would a division place any defectors on record, it would also show up any “stuck in the loos/ lifts/ gym …” or otherwise deaf to the bells!
BH@2527
Or offer to work as the Unit medico, and thus ensuring a room.
I’m pretty sure this is crossing party lines on both sides of the argument. Not sure this point is warranted.
So as long as anything is legal, or more to the point, hasn’t been legislated against, then it is ok?
Dovif,
One of the poor kids who died, died of heat stress on his first day in the job. Is it Garrett’s fault that some slime left him in a roof over 50C and did not even realise he has passed out?
Who the hell is in the Speaker’s Chair ATM? She needs to be reminded that the position requires a fair degree of dignity. She is carrying on like some school kid at the end of school term i.e. can’t concentrate in class.
So, because Gillard framed the IR laws anyone killed under those laws Gillard is responsible for?
ilegal net content is a LAW , a 1992 Broadcasting Sevices Law , schedule 5 etc
it specific quotes both th words “internet” , internet filter provision to be used , and RC rated content prohibited (definition of which is referensed to a later schedule)
We know Google can do it:
‘a Google Australia spokeswoman said that, while the company “won’t comply voluntarily with the broad scope of all RC content”, it would comply with the relevant laws in countries it operates in.”
http://www.aol.com.au/news/story/Google-baulks-at-Conroys-call-to-censor-YouTube/2424890/index.html
logical reasons for th filter been given here , but anti filterers non ratonal points & continued spamming does not change this
Apparently so.
Is it normal practice to go after the PM when a minister is the one in the gun?
GB
I sense a trap
But if there is no law against it in the real world, there should be no problem for people to view it on the net
Diogenes@2520
Because 8) =
dovif
OMG. Three wrong statements in two sentences!
1. FFS Contractors are employers NOT employees.
2. Gillard is in charge of the schools programmes, NOT of environmental ones.
3. Garrett did not blame the dead employees. He blamed the shonky employers not their deceased employees.
Surely you can’t be that thick!
GB2524
that was out of context, they were arguing it was Howard’s fault
OT, do you have a link to back that up
Save your breath, he was blaming the contractors, not the employees. That is, the people responsible, not the victims. Your righteous indignation is looking a trifle sick.
In all fairness to dovif he was responding to my post 2534.
Musrum, I, too, am trying to remember “eight” not the corresponding numeral.
Oz Pol
This is what Garrett said
“It’s not the rebate that is causing accidents in people’s roofs,” he told ABC Radio today.
“It’s negligent or inappropriate, slack behaviour on the part of a very tiny minority.”
He said slack behaviour, he did not say whether it was the employee or the employer
OPT
He is
I guess when La Grattan and Shanners both agree that Garrett should not resign, it a dead parrot.
Britney Speers on the other hand, reckons Tone’s had a terrific two weeks. Is he on the same planet?
Frank Calabrese@2530
Great idea. An on location Plastic Surgeon. Soon every movie will “need” one…
Frank – the perfect answer for Dio.
I think we can expect bad news from the poll this weekend. Every journo and his dog is railing against the Govt. and the Libs have sunk pretty low to accuse Garrett of industrial murder.
I don’t think anyone accused the Libs of murder when a boatload of AS sank instead of being helped.
Scarpat
Like #2526?
Or that we have an Aussie who doesn’t know the difference between “Boss” (Contractor/ employer) & “worker” (employee)?
Or tell the difference between Red Joolz & Pete the Skull?
ruawake
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 4:49 pm | Permalink
“Dovif,
One of the poor kids who died, died of heat stress on his first day in the job. Is it Garrett’s fault that some slime left him in a roof over 50C and did not even realise he has passed out? ”
You know that rua
My worry is TV and MSN papers presenting sensatonal headline ‘Garrett accusedof deaths”
Rudd needs an attack dog , not Garrett to say
‘ how dare Abbott use th acidental workplace deaths of 4 young australians for cheap politcal motives , one died heat on ist day , one died of a staple gun acident etc We ar sorry for family but such work place deaths can not been controlld by any Govt’ Somthing like thats
Finns
Read ‘em and weep dolphin boy. I’ll provide you with an introduction to Charlize if they accept my application as Frank suggested. But you’re going to have to work for it.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/mad-max-4-fury-road-gets-green-light-sam-worthington-tipped-to-star/story-e6frfmvr-1225790701454
Oz pol
2 Gillard announced the industrial relations laws
No trap. Interesting that you support porn though, even for children to view and take part in, given that we are pretending that the filter would block out all porn and that if it were the case the porn industry around the world could be severely hampered, including child porn, by most countries adopting such a filter.
BH
Not so sure the news will be bad. Everyone’s back from hols and so it won’t be only the lovelorn, luckless and lunatics answering their phones as has been the case over the last six weeks. Plus, Kevin has been more visible (as has Tone in more ways than one) and in Tone’s case don’t think more/over exposure will do his case any good. He has the look of a criminal about him and I think if you looked into his eyes you’d see the word ‘fanatic’ tatooed on his corneas. Very strange man indeed.
They’re really trying to push this idea. Are they basing it on one poll?
If Graham Perret has to apoligise, so should Abbott.
GB 2555
that is when the parent comes in with their own filters, and it is a decisions made by the parents.
I just do not believe in faceless unelected big brother making a decision that Australian should not watch Big Brother (maybe)/Southpark etc
FYI Roofing Insulation Fact Sheet from the Melbourne Fire Brigade.
http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/News/Roofing-insulation-fact-sheet.html
Scapet and OPT
This is Garrett’s statement, when did he refer to employer or employee
“It’s not the rebate that is causing accidents in people’s roofs,” he told ABC Radio today.
“It’s negligent or inappropriate, slack behaviour on the part of a very tiny minority.”
Ahh, the good old Opposition Orifice is at it again.
Vera & mysay – entre nous is now trying to keep us calm too. Thanks.
I’m just reading some of the comments about Abbott on Poss’s site.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/02/08/tony-abbott-running-with-scissors/#commen
The latest unfortunate death was caused by a guy using a metal staple into a live wire – after they were banned by Garrett.
Yet it is Garrett’s fault, sheesh.
I did think this was an non issue, but I am not so sure now
UPDATE 3.35pm: ELECTRICIANS formally warned the federal government last October that metal roof insulation could cause electrocutions.
But it took two deaths – and more than three months – for Environment Minister Peter Garrett to ban it.
Mr Garrett yesterday ordered safety checks on about 40,000 homes fitted with foil insulation under the government’s bungled $3.7 billion roof insulation scheme after an audit revealed up to 1000 homes could now have electrified ceilings following installation of the material.
Mr Garrett, who is facing calls for his resignation, has revealed to parliament that he knew of the risks.
He met with Master Electricians Australia in October 2009, after one installer had died fitting the metal insulation.
“Master Electricians were very concerned in general terms that metal fasteners and foil insulation posed an unacceptable safety electrocution risk,” Mr Garrett said in a statement.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related CoverageGarrett fires up over insulation scheme
Emissions trading: Turnbull crosses floor on ETS
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
Master Electricians told him that “electrical problems could emerge at the time of installation or even up to several months after the work was done”.
Mr Garrett decided then not to ban the foil insulation.
Two more installers died while fitting the foil insulation after that decision.
This week Mr Garrett banned the foil insulation.
So you are comfortable with some parents choosing to allowing their children access to porn and even taking part in it?
Wow,
The ABC is almost going in harder on Garrett than TA did in QT today!
They’re making it sounds like he’s been ‘got’ by the Opposition.
I’m truly surprised, as this wasn’t my impression of QT at all. Rather, it seemed that the Opposition tried to wing Garrett but didn’t really land a punch (ie Garrett provided reasoned and confident responses – weather they were correct is another matter, of course).
Mario’s *P* ?
2565 – it may be a good idea to read Garrett’s explanation before coming to that conclusion. Besides, let me ask again is it common practice for the PM to be censured and not the “offending” minister?
dovif
So now it is two deaths – I thought the MSM were telling us it was 4?
GB, are you saying that all chidren should be de facto wards of the state as there are some parents not capable of meeting their responsibilities?
dovif
enuff of your faux concern
Getting off on peoples misfortune is pure scum tactics
Only a true fascist would revel in death
2565
What were the circumstances of each of these deaths? Were either of them the result of being left in the roof cavity when the temp was 50c+ or the case of the installer stapling into live wire? Govt policy could not avert either of these deaths.
Only if the filter worked and blocked out all porn. That was my “pretend scenario I’ve been discussing with dovif. I’m not convinced the filter works like that though. Surely we all want to see an end to child porn. Leaving it up to parents would not see an end to it IMHO given the scenario I’m talking about.
GB 2566
The problem with the filter I have is the following
The filter does not work, people can get around it, there are 2 problem here
a. we are telling people the filter will protect their kids, when it might not
b. the cost to Australia of a filter that had to be maintained regularly and does not work
If a parent choose to use a filter I have no problems, but they still need to monitor the kids
The filter can be misused by the government, I do not think the government ie China have a right to block what people want to read/watch, as long as it is not illegal, even if it is possible to get around it
As for allowing the people access to porn and taking part in it, you can use the same analogy for alcohol, drugs, cigarette etc. The parent have to bear some responsibilities.
Tom
The other death was from faulty live wires already in the roof.
The audit of the “foil roofs” will probably show the crap standards of wiring used in Oz houses 50 years ago.
dovif
Israel has a filter
Dovif @ # 2159
Filtering won’t stop crime from being committed
Filtering might prevent people obtaining legal and legitimate information…. ie the blocked dentist, or information on abortion
Am I sick of this silly argument put forward against the Internet filter.
If you take it to its logical conclusion then all laws should be abolished as not one of them stop some idiot from breaking it. The law against murder does not stop murders and the law against speeding does not stop speeding. Because there is always some goose that thicks he/she will get away with it.
The second point above is just as silly because if there was a real problem in this regard instead of a made up one then there would be problems like this in respect of all other communication platforms that are covered by the RC system that operates now.
It is also very juvenile to continue to vilify Conroy. This is Government policy and no matter who was the Minister they would have to implement it.
Gusface
If there was concerns raised with Garrett after one death by the safety association and he ignore them, then yes
Gusface, so has Iran
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/world/middleeast/11tehran.html?hp
Would Garrett be convicted of those deaths in any court of law dovif?
Checking on ‘Breakfast Politics’ this morning, as is my want every day, noted that for the nth day in a row majority of MSM are running negative stories against the government – much more so than in the past. Conceding that there are areas where the government has stuffed up, it does appear to be disproportionate and one can only surmise that the journos are tilling the soil in order to make an election that is not that close appear as if it may be closer. They really couldn’t give a fig who wins or loses so long as there is plenty of biffo and blood. The problem is that the great unwashed don’t read past the headlines and despite the saying that voters never get it wrong I believe that if the current oppo came within cooee of government it would be a disaster – and I did not feel that about Howard and his team. Also concerning is that a right wing journo such as Shanahan does not criticise Abbott and yet the left wing journos such as David Marr will stick the boot into Rudd, presumably because Rudd is considered too right wing. Marr should reflect, however, on the type of Australia we would become should the Abbott/Joyce/Bishop triumvirate take government.
Ratsars
my point 14 #2039
our laws basically operate NOT to make a crime imposible to perform , but just just more difficult , (and with severe penalties for not complyin)
rua, That makes 3. What were the circumstances regarding the 4th death? I think Garrett is as distressed as anyone in parliament over the deaths of these people – certainly more distressed than anyone on the opposition might be. Despicable for Abbott to suggest industrial manslaughter if Garrett were a company director.
2575 – Hang on, you’ve gone back to the present situation. I said earlier “pretend the filter works”. So now, given that, should parents still be given the choice of using it or should a government do it in the interest of stemming the use of children in the porn industry and their exposure to porn on the net?
Tom
It was the first metal staple death, Garrett banned metal staples the next day. Yet slimes continued to use them and its Garretts fault.
Diog, diog, weep? Me. Who needs Charlize when I got Mischa, she paid to kiss me, suffer ….
http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Celebrities+Swim+Dolphins+Grand+Opening+Atlantis+HG_SP5ShGudl.jpg
http://www.zimbio.com/Mischa+Barton/articles/287/Mischa+Paid+Swim+Dolphins
r/Ron – just to put you straight I was the poster who pasted part of the Google story from the SMH at #2191. The word “willingly” was in the article at the time I copied it to the post. It has been changed since to “voluntarily” within inverted commas. Someone must have checked the release:
“Google says it will not “voluntarily” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” (RC) content rules.”
It had nothing to do with ShowsOn. It means nothing anyway. what a carry-on.
entre nous,
Yes, you may be on to something. I know that many in this blog are quick to claim ABC bias, in favour to the Coalition. Maybe this is true. Maybe it isn’t. Frankly, I just don’t listen/read/watch frequently enough to make a worthwhile comment.
However, I was genuinely surprised today, after listening to QT. The ABC reporting seemed a little ‘odd’ – even after discounting my own particular model of ‘politically coloured sunglasses’.
BTW: How many were killed by the bribes paid by AWB to Saddam and that was ignored and sanctioned by Dolly Downer, Howie, and Mark Vale.
Where are the eulogies for 5.3% Unemployment.
jv
The SMH strikes again – why believe anything they publish?
One of my sons is a sparky and this afternoon I was speaking to him about this problem with the installation of the insulation.
I can’t repeat here what he said but to paraphrase it -
The installers are ^&**&%$#@ &*^ ( &&(^ idiots as any kid would know not to put staples through an electric cable. And that it had nothing to do with the Government. He then went on to say what he and his workmates though of Abbott and Hunt and again I could not repeat it here other wise I would be banned for life.
Gary Bruce
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 5:14 pm | Permalink
“that is when the parent comes in with their own filters, and it is a decisions made by the parents.”
So you are comfortable with some parents choosing to allowing their children access to porn and even taking part in it?
AND
j/v #1878. “Illegal content (thats th sick RC stuff defined abov) should be subject to police control, as it already is, and otherwise be controlled by individuals in THEIR homes.”
Gary ,now Google hav removed th red hering that Net can not be filtered when Google say it can , abov Dovif , and j/v (and all anti filterers liberatariens DO believe th above , its hard to understand
Oh so true.
No. Just change your name to bob.
Then you will ok. Bob’s you’re uncle?
Finally the ABC site has a news item about the big story of the day.
When will they learn that it’s all about the economy stupid?
Who would have thought 4 years ago that Labor would dominate the economic debate so much that Liberals are no longer prepared to raise it as an issue.
jaundiced view
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 5:39 pm | Permalink
#2588
“It had nothing to do with ShowsOn. It means nothing anyway. what a carry-on.”
BS
He denied in $2463 he made quote “th post” in #2199 , when he did
His post did not hav a link (nor referense a referense to your post #2191
Your post #2191 did NOT hav a liink either
Further as I’ve prooved you were too lazy to find out what Google actualy did say
which is quote
“Google says it will not “voluntarily” comply with the government’s request that it censor YouTube videos in accordance with broad “refused classification” (RC) content rules.”
proving Google can and will do it , despite nonsense to contrary
ruawake
At least it’s generally better than the Murdoch media, and in this instance the original and corrected terms used, “willingly” and “voluntarily”, are synonyms. Hence my amusement at the carry-on over it.
Ron @ # 2583
”our laws basically operate NOT to make a crime imposible to perform , but just just more difficult , (and with severe penalties for not complyin)’
I concur Ron.
Laws are a statement of community standards and for those who do not wish to comply with community standards they usually stipulate a penalty of some sort.
Ratsars@2593
Actually if you are quoting someone you’re fine:
j/v
Google quote
‘a Google Australia spokeswoman said that, while the company “won’t comply voluntarily with the broad scope of all RC content”, it would COMPLY with the relevant laws in countries it operates in.”
so stop spamming
jv
No its not, the McGurk crud, the analysis of funding for infrastructure projects, I could go on and on and on.
But I won’t ’cause my neice works for Fairfax Digital
BH
10 news if you were able to get it would have given you heart tonight
All positive comments for the govt re unemployment and showed the treasury guy saying we don’t have a debt problem then showed Henry saying he thinks the recession is over. The fact that this report was by Hugh Remington was a shock as he usually spruks the Lib talking points.
Then Paul Bonjourno did the report on Abbott calling for Rudd to sack Pete and said unless the Opposition can do better and come up with a killer blow he’d say Garrett will continue on to bigger and better things.
Feel better now?
Musrum @ # 2601
Actually if you are quoting someone you’re fine:
There are some words that I try not to use though at times of extreme annoyance or frustration I do laps I am afraid.
vera
Thanks for the good news
Vera, even the Liberal media can smell a crock when it is presented to them.
I’ve always found Bonjourno a pretty fair reporter who plays it fairly straight down the middle with both sides of politics.
THe unfortunate thing about Limited News is their overall media reach. They dominate the country’s media in most of its formats and are rarely objective.
dovif #2544
2 Gillard announced the industrial relations laws
Huh? What have IR laws got to do with it?
1. Union membership is not compulsory
2. Not one who died was a union member
3. Not one who employed a worker who died was a union member.
4. The employer has a “duty of care” to ensure s/he operate a worksite in accordance with WHS laws, regulations etc & ensures workers are aware of & operate in accordance with WHS laws. That’s why the employer is legally liable for each of those deaths.
Therefore Julia, like the flowers that bloom in the spring, Tra La
Has nothing to do with the case.
Tell EB who ever is giving you all this bum advice to check the facts before you have half a chook farm’s worth of eggs on your face!
Not that I’m implying Channel 10 is associated with Limited News. Far from it.
10 is majority owned by CanWest of course.
j/v
“and in this instance the original and corrected terms used, “willingly” and “voluntarily”, are synonyms. Hence my amusement at the carry-on over it.”
you ar doing , spamming & changing positons just like anti filter dovif is doing to Gary
WHAT YOU lazy left out was Googles words saying google would comply with Conroy !
‘a Google Australia spokeswoman said that, while the company “won’t comply voluntarily with the broad scope of all RC content”, it WOULD COMPLY with the relevant laws in countries it operates in.”
so stop spamming here , zig zagging and changing positon , then back again
Gary Bruce.
First problem – The use of children in the porn industry is illegal, and that material is already dealt with under current provisions. Second problem – there is no evidence that kids’ accidental exposure to porn is of any significance. Older kids will simply circumvent any filter at will if they wish. Third problem – the filter won’t stem porn anyway, and nor should it be aimed at legal porn.
See the expert analysis linked repeatedly. Instead of asking rhetorical questions, what about setting out the effectiveness of the proposed filter in terms of its stated aims to protest children in the light of the expert analysis?
Not according to some here who are against the filter. They say you can still access child porn.
Are you aware JV I was debating dovif in this scenario. “Let’s pretend the filter cuts out all porn, would you still be against it being used by the government”?
2584
Tom Hawkins
Yes Tom it’s the same as saying that Abbott would have been charged with industrial manslaughter for the Patel deaths at Bundaberg hospital if he had been the company director when he in fact was the Federal minister for health.
He is a grub and the coalition and the MSM are all grubs for using the deaths of these workers as a political football.
The deaths of those workers will have repercussions for the persons who were responsible for their safety if they were a PTy Ltd Company or a Head Contractor and were in “charge” of those workers. They will be prosecuted.
The essence of Abbotts statement at this point in time could well be correct. That is to say if Garrett was the Company Director of the company that employed/subcontracted these workers then he may well have found himself on the receiving end of a charge of industrial manslaughter. Same Same with Abbot if he was the director of bundaberg hospital.
As i said a couple of pages back, these kind of laws are full on the drawing board at the moment on a National scale to make the buck stop somewhere and lots of persons i?c don’t take any notice. Like Ruawake has intimated they just want to short cut to make quicker profits and injuries are the result.
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=cgej
Oakes on 9 pushing the Libs” barrow
Same with Reily on 7 (but you’d expect that from the Lib stooge_
Both had victim’s mum blaming garrett and calling for him to be sacked
OzPol Tragic – I’ll repeat, I was the one who brought up Gillard’s name and dovif if was responding.
Channel 9 led with a story about a judge and dog droppings and then about four stories later had the Abbott/Garrett imbroglio with Abbott given a 30 second sound bite and the PM about 10 secs. Still the 30 secs Abbott got showed him full fanged and giving the oppo the death stare in qt so perhaps that exposure wasn’t too helpful.
I expected nothing else Vera.
Ron @ 2598
And if you had checked whether anyone had used the sentence “Google says it will not willingly comply with the government’s request” you would have found at least 6 references all sourced to a Fairfax article. It appears that at some stage Fairfax changed the wording just as jaundiced view has claimed.
Can someone tell me why Abbott went for Rudd and not Garrett?
Thanks J V, I look forward to Ronald’s apology.
Ronald,
You can see an examination of the censorship issue here:
http://tinyurl.com/yfp468p
Something to do with organ grinders and monkeys I guess.
Correction: 5 references
More credible media companies actually track the changes to their online articles.
Gary
My answer is an emphatic “Yes”, because most of the RC materials to be filtered are legal to possess and dessimate in most states and territiories, both porn and other material. Why should this legal stuff be blocked on the net?
The illegal stuff is quite separate, and is already dealt with under current laws – although those who want it can get it, if they wish to risk the Feds at their door.
Let me turn the question around – “Should a secret list of compulsory filtered URL’s include material that is legal to possess and disseminate in Australia?”
So Fairfax, yet again, distort News.
I’m a bit surprised Google didn’t just put a up a press release here:
http://www.google.com.au/press/
Sharan Burrow certainly hasn’t helped Garrett out.
I’m glad I’m not the only one capable of making a distinction between two separate issues.
morewest,
Which makes Ron the accurate one because he actually went to the source for the quote.
Seriously, you guys are easily duped if you think a large Company like Google would tell the world they will break the law.
Your bulshitterometer should have started quivering. But, of course, you wanted what they said to be true.
9 have come another cropper, they had a “9 Exclusive” last night with a whistleblower telling stories about the state MP for Penrith.
With quips about Kenneally under pressure to sack her. then showing KK saying she was standing by her until the results of a parliametary inquiry into the matter.
All made into big deal. could bring down govt and KK etc
Well tonight 7 news reported that the whistleblower has form is under investigation lol
KK said inocent until proven guilty. came across as on top of things
Just like the Mcgurk tape would bring down the govt and half the labor MP would end up in jail!
Wangkers are full of it
vera,
Poor dovif will have scratch that one from his Liberal talking points.
That’s what they told the Chinese government:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html
GG
The dumkumffs fall for whatever beatup the media feeds them
vera,
Is that how you spell kumffs?
Ratsars #2593
I can imagine the expletives deleted from your son’s laudably concise & correct response! Not unlike my own, or OH’s, or the bloke over the road’s … or, let’s face it, every chippie, sparkie & contractor I know. All over the nation, they must be spluttering the same expletive-undeleted sentiments. 
Abbott & Co can’t seriously be so totally dumb!
So, and remember the scenario I’m working with here, we should not try and stamp out child porn if the technology exists ie the filter works. It will be more important to keep the general porn going at the expense of wiping out that scourge?
The insulation issue wasn’t even mentioned at the start of 9 News Adelaide.
The first story is about a car bomb that went off in the northern suburbs that killed a known drug dealer and a member of the Hell’s Angels bikie gang.
vera dear thankyou for that i am sewing and did not see the 10 news
but did you see the pictures on crickey front page.
Why do that.
is there anything about the job figures on abc on line i made a pledge to my self not to look at their site any more.
Abbott is trying to show that Rudd is a weak leader and cannot govern this country. To be honest Abbott has no hope of beating Rudd later
this year, Rudd has more personality, speaks like a leader and is far better looking.
i have heard of people having accidents with the nail guns for years now.
if it had been somewhere else abbott would not even have know about it.
GG
Spelling ain’t my strong point
7 story here
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/australian-news/6788759/corruption-probe-keneally-refuses-to-stand-down-mp/
Shows On,
The proof is, in this case, they did not actually threaten to disobey the law. If you think the situation is analgous to China, then you really are over reaching.
Again, I repeat, you wanted it to be true. Therefore, you were easily sucked in.
…and has better people skills.
My Say, you can read the following without too much heartburn:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816561.htm
my say
job figures only rate at number 7 story
garrett must be sacked is top of their pops of course
job report here
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2816561.htm
morewest
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 6:16 pm | Permalink
and why do NOT you deel with issue that youse anti filterers hav been deceitful claiming Google can not filter when it can
and why do you NOT deel with fact your anti filterer mates weretoo lazy to check what Google actualy did say
and why do you NOT hav nitemares that suport for viewing net child porn in someones home is about revolting as one can get ,
and all under a false bigoted libertarien argument , and stuff th kids
Abbott is a one gear car. He does angry and aggressive really really well but has trouble shifting into second. At end of qt today Rudd wished the Aussie team well in Vancouver and went on to say that as far as boxing kangaroo flag was concerned that the team should fly it as much as they liked. Abbott came back with a surly ‘good luck’ and nothing more. He doesn’t segue well from dark to light. He is very old testament in that way. Cant imagine what sort of priest he would have made if he’d stuck to his first calling.
Greensborough Growler @ 2630
It would appear that at the time jaundiced view “went to the source” it contained the word “willingly” instead of “voluntary“
One less headache for Trog Tony and The Neo Fibs
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/6791412/pauline-hanson-walks-away-from-politics/
what a disgrace the job figures are for every one the abc used to be the bastian of society thats what we thought any way. I am 60 so the members may say i had rose coloured glasses or that i have just grown up
The ABC’s online correspondent, Emma Rodgers, always appears to head her stories with quotes from Tony Abbott or the Opposition though her pieces can be reasonable. My feeling is that the headings are there to leave the quick browser who doesn’t necessarily want to read the article with a general impression of incompetence by the Government.
Morewest
that was not th souse , unless you like rest of lazy Greens just believe MSN
Google was th souse , i found it
they were too lazy , or did not want to , take your choice
so you lookin pretty foolish
Tony Abbott (Minister For Industrial Relations) in 2002, on “Industrial Manslaughter” legislation in Queensland.
http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=267
what australian resourses are we talking about that are being sold.
Telstra or most of it been sold by the other lot what else???
re the hansen story.
My choice for Razza of the Day is The Age online’s front page
I’m trying to remember another time in Oz Pol history, when unemployment dives was
BAD news!
morewest@2650
Nobody regards the old-media “content fakers” as the source anymore.
The forth estate has become the fifth wheel…
bush fire are you going to send that to Julia gillard. but i suppose they know these things.
Scarpat
I’ve noticed that, whenever it is a Labor quote it has Rudd etc alongside the headline
Ron @ 2646
Please point out where I have expressed any of the views you claim I have on this issue.
Again, it appears that at an earlier time the very source you quote was saying something different to what it now is. So take it up with that source, Fairfax.
SBS news
2 minutes in , maybe it was lead story anyway
had Abbott on video charging Garratt with responsibility of 4 deaths
and Rudd on video sayin ” hav full confidense in my Minister’
not a good look , cause his othr comments not televised
ps/ can not help feeling Garrett innocently , but loose when interviewed not saying who “minority iresponsible’ were ie employers
Gary
You haven’t grasped it – the illegal stuff like child porn is a separate issue. It is not part of a secret list or the whims of a classification board – it is already illegal to download it onto your computer. For that stufff, the “technology” does in fact work as far as it goes in blocking specified URLs, although it slows everything down. The problem is that the purveyors of illegal content are cunning and skilled and will just move stuff around from one URL to another, far too quickly for what will necessaarily be a cumbersome notification and listing process. Also there are alternative means of accessing the material, apart from going to a URL, including peer to peer and email, and any number of freeware programs to that end thanks to China’s censorship.
The illegal stuff is clearly defined and sought out by the laws covering it, even though the filter won’t stop it being downloaded onto computers in Australia. So the filter fails at the first hurdle.
The other issue is the much larger range of legal material under RC that Conroy and the ACL are after – material that can be possessed and disseminated in Australia, and not just porn. Conroy has deliberately included all RC material, most of which he knows is not illegal, but is presenting the case as if it were only the illegal stuff being targetted. Far from it.
See the libertus information for irrefutable explanation as to what exactly RC content is and how it differs from Conroy’s releases and FAQ’s. It’s simply dishonest, and I’d say the reason people here are confusing the illegal stuff with the legal all the time.
For the RC material in detail, plus the Law Reform Commisison Recommendation that resulted in the state and territory laws that quarantined the really bad stuff as illegal while leaving the majority of RC material as legal, see Libertus analysis:
http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html#rcpossess
Given that is not necessary to include legal material in order to block the illegal stuff (child porn etc) the question remains “Should the proposed filter block material that it is legal to possess and disseminate in Australia?”
Ahh, Melbournians have a second Liberal Radio Station to split the redneck audience.
http://mumbrella.com.au/melbourne-gets-second-talk-station-with-steve-price-at-helm-17986?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20mumbrella%20%28mUmBRELLA%29
Note that the last time a radio station switched from Easy Listening to Talk it was 6PR in 1976 which went from Gentle On Your Mind to Racing – with Talkback being added later.
Musrum @ 2658
It will be interesting how long it will be before those of that view cite the “old-media” to support an argument.
A fabricated quote to discredit Sir John Houghton has caught Pies with his pants down.
Looks like he has been acreddited with fudging or just plain old making things up.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=106687
morewest
“Again, it appears that at an earlier time the very source you quote was saying something different to what it now is. So take it up with that source, Fairfax.”
stop making fool of yourself
your statement above is false about souses because you an anti filterer hav bumbled in not knowing whole story and th souses
Just deel with fact I find anyone suporting th viewing net child porn in there home ar disgusting
OzPol
That Age headline is a dosey
One of my picks of the day was the female Sky political reporter saying
“Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd”
And Pies don’t want to own up either.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=106687
You haven’t grasped it. It is only a separate issue in the present scenario whereby there is doubt about the filter working and you assume that child porn is inaccessable, and both are doubtful. In my scenario the filter blocks out all porn successfully even to the point of no-one gaining access here, no way no how. I can’t see a filter being able to distinguish between child and adult porn however.
Hope he takes action.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=106687
If you seriously think Conroy is going to introduce the “Filter all of Youtube.com Act 2010″ to the Senate, then you are just in Ronald and Frank’s bizarro wacko land.
Ronald,
I look forward to your apology for misrepresenting me.
Anybody familiar with how the calculate unemployment figures in the US?
Never in the history of the English language has so much energy been spent by one man on the substitution of one synomym for another. It’s surreal.
For, “willingly” and “voluntarily” are indeed synonyms, that is interchangeable … the same … like words … echoes of each other … peas in a pod … twins … concurrent of meaning … sharing DNA … thesaurus fellows.
jv
The words are irrelevant – the fact is Fairfax changed the Google Press release.
BB #2655
Just in case Aussie Workers forget that the Liberals are still the party of WorkChoices!
So the deaths of those worker killed in the explosion in the Victorian power station wasn’t the employers’ fault, but partially their own, for failing to recognise that workplace safety is a shared responsibility between employers and employees and it shifts the workplace safety emphasis from prevention to punishment. Mind you, I didn’t hear him or his Question asking Coalition mates blaming the dead workers for their own deaths! Or blaming the employers. Oh NO! It was all Minister Garrett’s fault. Abbott doesn’t even follow his own opinion!
Next thing you know, Abbott will be arguing that vehicular safety is the shared responsibility of the passengers & driver, and “vehicular manslaughter” mindset casts the driver as habitual villain … & the victims “should also beware of the tendency to be wise after the event and seek scapegoats rather than solutions.” I suppose the passengers (or their heirs) shouldn’t sue the driver for their deaths or injuries!
Bloody unbelievable!
I look forward to Ronald redirecting his wrath towards Fairfax.
Ron @ 2668
You gave your source in #2506, Ron. It leads to an AOL reprint of the SMH version of the Fairfax article. You quoted source and jaunticed view’s is ultimately the same. The only difference is that “willingly” has been replaced by voluntary” by Fairfax. There are at least 10 independent references, excluding PB, to the article at some time having used the words “Google says it will not willingly comply with the government’s request” including the AOL source you quoted in 2506.
I again challenge you to cite where I have expressed the views you claim I have on the filter.
Don’t even know what the controversy is but “willingly” and “voluntarily” are not synonymous.
“Willingly” denotes enthusiasm in doing the voluntary act.
“Voluntarily” is a more neutral word, indicating consent but not necessarily enthusiastic consent.
Someone who voluntarily consents to a breath test when they have drunk 8 schooners in the previous two hours may not do so willingly.
That’s why we have two words… becaue they deal with two different concepts.
jv @ 2663: That is a very good summary of the limitations surrounding mandatory filtering of internet content. Thanks for that!
and of the relevant Transport Minister, if he or she happens to be a Labor Transport Minister.
I think this is behind the kerfuffle on in NSW and Victoria at present regarding P-plate deaths. It’s a build up, in my opinion. Pretty soon we’ll be seeing Kennealy and Brumbie being blamed for them.
From earlier today on Abbott’s statement re Garrett. Abbott is a disgrace that should be told to apologise to the Parliament, to Garrett and to his own party from bring them into disrepute.
In fact I might suggest Turnbull take Abbott to task publicly for disgracing himself and abusing his position in Parliament and lowering the Liberal Party into the gutter (where it has been for a while really.)
We can rest assured the right wing media wont do anything except continue on with their dishonesty, lies, misrepresentation and support for the Liberal Party. These right wing papers and ‘opinion’ writers are about as low and worthless a people as you can get.
And then of course we have our dishonest ABC – full of Howard era Liberal soppy flag wavers trying to corrupt news, opinion and report at every turn. You can see/hear some of them fawning over Abbott, laying on their backs thinking of little Johnny, for the sake of the Party.
We will get this from now to election day. Hopefully if Labor wins they will take to the ABC with a baseball bat, bottle of sulphuric acid in order to do a deep clean of the scum that has become stuck to the walls there.
Their ABC rebadges a Liberal Party talking point as a “news headline”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2817106.htm
Yep, thats our Dishonest ABC for you.
BB,
We had an example day where the mother of a young man electrocuted earlier this week has been used by our ghoulish media to crucify Garrett.
The lady is in mourning. Why does she have to be exploited for a political point. Does she really have enough knowledge to sheet home blame to the Minister or were her comments of bereaved person lashing out at the nearest target in understandable frustration at the loss of a son??
And Obama is starting to shoot himself in the foot. He doesn’t need to do that when he faces a barrage of toxic media, blue dog democrats, gutless democrats and a viral GOP.
He was right and popular to attack the banks. Now he ‘doesn’t begrudge’ them their million dollar bonuses? What on earth? I don’t suppose he meant it and was just being conciliatory, but it was a mad thing to say. It makes him look worse.
The Democrats seem to be their own worst enemy.
LOL!
Dr Ken Henry to Barnyard:
Shows On,
You clearly don’t like being made a mug by the media. Which is understandable.
My best bet is that Google will comply with the law. Cos, that’s what they said they’d do.
I don’t give a toss about the wankers in the meejia playing silly buggers on the “story de jour” pack of lazy bastards.
They feed off each other like leeches, britney could not say nude nut should be sacked, despite his truely ruley desire for it to be so, because grattan and shanners said it was not a hanging offence, press club president gig on the line, be safe.
The political toe nail clipping – uhlmann, repeats the Morgoth line that it will cost $50 million to do the inspections – bollocks.
When will we get a media that reports facts instead of sucking each others private bits.
Well if Government increases funding for a program then if there are more accidents and deaths because of the resultant increased activity of course the Minister should be charged and put in jail for 5 or 6 years. That makes sense. Maybe we could apply that to the SIEVX
So the additional injuries and deaths on building sites because 1. govt rebates for new housing and 2. the Govt saving the economy …. means the whole government should be locked up.
It is of course the most stupid and disgraceful of arguments. Something Abbott should be ashamed of.
ruawake,
Is that more gobbledygook?
From sly News:
[When will we get a media that reports facts instead of sucking each others private bits.[
When they disappear behind pay wall, the ABC is cleaned out and becomes the main source of honest up to date data and analysis. At the moment there are too many Liberal sycophants and trashy second rate journalists and radio interviewers.
Wow, so not all Americans are stupid and even a few Republican supporters have a grip on reality.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/11/palin-unqualified-president-tea-party-poll_n_457836.html
The people electrocuting themselves should be nominated for the Darwin awards
Nude Nut did well with Red Kerry.
Baraby’s twin sister?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/10/chris-matthews-rips-palin_n_456465.html
I hope Palin is the Republican nominee, if she is, Obama will win at least 400 electoral votes.
They must have Howard’s Workchoices in the USA?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/10/no-labor-market-recession_n_456797.html
With Newspoll polling the electorate between tomorrow and Sunday, it’s perfect timing for this sort of scandal to erupt.
If 54-46 holds up we’ll be very very lucky.
Do you want to block out ALL porn, however soft, however legal, including RC material that is legal to possess and disseminate? That’s going further than Conroy, and that’s saying something.
I suspect that is also the aim of the Festival of Light and Conroy’s mates the Australian Christian Lobby.
bob1234
The last newspoll was 52-48 you wally.
Indeed.
Ditto 52/48.
Is it possible?
Could Newspoll break new Rudd ground?
Could we see 51/49… or 50/50…?
I say 52/48 then.
Greensborough Growler
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 7:39 pm | Permalink
“Shows On,
You clearly don’t like being made a mug by the media. Which is understandable.”
apparently “morewest” doesnot eithr if he’d read my #2506 properly and Rua ‘s recent post , but he bumbled in with 1/2 a story & a slow leaner
fact is j/v made a post , WITHOUT a link !! , so no one cou;ld chek him ,
which turns out j/v is quoting a MSN story that was also wrong !!
AND j/v was too lazy to chek th souse (Google)
but I had cheked th souse (Google) ,
which said :
“Google Australia spokeswoman said that, while the company “won’t comply voluntarily with the broad scope of all RC content”, it WOULD COMPLY with the relevant laws in countries it operates in.”
feel reel guilty re postin that quote , sorry about that GG
think anti filterers arguments been exposed as nonsense or misleadin or foolish , time to move on and ignore thee further spammingth undefensible
Has anyone checked to see if any workers have been killed, maimed, or had a splinter in the building work on the schools from the stimulus money due to a breach of a states OH&S laws? If so, they’ll be after Gillard’s head next.
Tony Abbott really is one dimensional: totally predictable and a sleaze. He’s a one trick pony (don’t try to Spoonerise that).
For perspective: Haiti death toll now 230,000 according to 7:30 report.
Did you catch Clarke and Dawe? Hilarious.
You can bet the Germans will make any bailout as unpleasant and controlled as possible with lots of milestones to be achieved to earn each tranche of funding. It has to be unpleasant with lots of conditions to be able to sell it the German public.
The Greek population will of course hate it even more and create even more social chaos, bringing more harm to the economy and so on…until everybody realises Greece is a lost cause.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/greece-debt-crisis-eu-gov_n_455707.html
jv
A rough estimate of workplace deaths is one per day. That excludes bullying, harassment etc, just people who have been splattered at work.
Could a GST fix the American economy in the long run?
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/05/news/economy/vat_deficit.fortune/index.htm
You’re getting more tangled, tangential, peripheral, nasty, and obsessed r/Ron, the more Conroy’s filter nonsense goes down the gurgler. My link to the original article was posted on its own immediately below the post with that article.
nope
That was an absolutely awful interview by Garrett on the 7:30 report…
Both actually; this century ( the last 10 years ) has seen,Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Akrotiri , Dhekelia, Bulgaria, Romania and Scattered islands in the Indian Ocean join, all join without a shot being fired. The whole thing started in 1952, making it the previous century; without a shot being fired. I’m not aware of any territory that was taken by force, feel free to correct me.
So, bob
Peter Garrett should have … ?
Why do you come to this conclusion? I thought he did well.
My point was simply that Europe was the most war torn continent of the 20th century!
Nice baiting bob! And then since no one bit:
Thomas Paine
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 7:11 pm | Permalink
“Anybody familiar with how the calculate unemployment figures in the US?”
off cufff , i remember they do it two ways
believe one is a stat poll of unemployd , and then do a poll of unemployed re how many still looking for work
believe that result is rate drops from about 10% to now 9.7% , but number not looking went up (prev think 2 figures went reverse way) So think diferent biased pundits then cherry pik which figure they like to puish there own partisian cause
Yes and all that fire and fury achieved nothing. The new approached has achieved the worlds richest economic zone.
ruawake
Far too high. With all the OH&S laws, Workcove Inspectors, numerous standards and mandatory practices in the modern working world, I’m constantly amazed at how many breaches there are leading to injury.
The common law cases require negligence by an employer, but there are many such cases, even though workers these days in NSW need a minimum 15% whole person impairment to bring a case to be compensated for future wage loss.
Garrett did a fabulous jon on 730 report. Anyone who disagrees is a Liberal hack.
If foil insulation is so bad, why didn’t Howard ban it? Howard has blood on his hands.
I don’t agree. He did really well against someone that was really gunning for him.
2705
JV
A very large set of 18 meter span trusses collapsed (inadequate temporary bracing, not complying with the Australian Standards) on a Kelso school building while they were standing them. Fortunately no one was injured. Probably in the vicinity of $15k to $20k to replace.
That is full of basket case economies that need to be bailed out by The UK, France and Germany.
I think the point is that it’s dangerous if it’s installed incorrectly and the chances of it being installed incorrectly increase if you have a large number of untrained installers doing the work.
The link that’s being drawn is that the Government ought to have known that their rebate encouraged the fast uptake of insulation which would be installed by a large number of untrained workers.
A way around this might’ve been to specify that the rebate couldn’t be used on foil insulation, for instance.
Yeah, I hate to admit it but I think Bob Integers is right. Garrett let O’Brien hector him – instead of insisting that he be given the right to answer questions in his own way.
Despite doing well in the House today, I feel the Minister needs some toughening up so that he doesn’t let interviewers set the entire agenda.
Just had a call from Peter garrett. Wanted to know more about this bob bloke. Wants to have a chat to him. Probably wants to hire him as his advisor.
Which the Liberals would’ve attacked for distorting the market, and for wasting money by not allowing consumers to choose what insulation they wanted.
Just almost finished watching Peter Garrett.
It was terrible. I am not a Liberal hack, by the way.
Earlier this afternoon I had talked to a friend, an A Class Electrician, arguing that Garrett could hardly be held responsible for whatever, assuming, I said, that a proviso of the roll out would require the oversight of, exactly that, an A Class Electrician.
He agreed.
Sadly, Garrett just blew my argument to smithereens.
Do you think the second largest economic zone (the USA ) has states that all contribute equally?
OzPol Tragic @ # 2636
I can imagine the expletives deleted from your son’s laudably concise & correct response! Not unlike my own, or OH’s, or the bloke over the road’s … or, let’s face it, every chippie, sparkie & contractor I know. All over the nation, they must be spluttering the same expletive-undeleted sentiments.
Abbott & Co can’t seriously be so totally dumb!
Have to agree OPT. My son did not hold back in any way. I think he used every expletive deleteive that he could come up with. He thought those who installed the stuff must be brain dead and could not understand why the Government was involved at all outside of the supply of funds.
If I get a chance I will try and show him “Red Kerry’s” effort tonight on the 7.30 Report. My guess is that he will not be impressed. To him it is like having to tell someone to put on clothes before they go outside.
This is a good example of not being able to legislate against stupidity.
Gaffhook
Don’t tell Abbott, or Julia will be explaining to parliament why she didn’t attach that temporary bracing properly. She’s usually pretty good at that sort of thing too, from watching her nail the Opposition
I’d rather them wear this than risk safety issues popping up. If the Government or Minister knew there were serious safety risks involved with using foil insulation they were negligent in not considering it further.
Thomas Paine
should hav added that think reason its done as i assumed in #2578 is cause at some point in US you dont keep geting unemploymnt benefits so unlike our CES there equiv CES records can never hav no of true unemployed
TP we ar in 2700′s , my first post was 2718 thjen 2736
The U.S. isn’t an ECONOMIC ZONE it is a COUNTRY. The economic zone is all of North American thanks to NAFTA.
CES? It is called Centerlink. The U.S. does not have a CES or Centerlink, unemployment benefits are paid by the states.
confessions
Glad you appreciated it.
A gross over-simplification. Unemployment benefits are paid from the contributions a person made, when these run out it is called Welfare.
some people ar easily pleased by nonsense
There is more than one currency and no free movement of labor within the NAFTA zone. Do you believe all states within the NAFTA trading zone contribute equally?
If it’s any consolation Ron I’m not impressed by your posts – those I can read that is.
ruawake
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 8:42 pm | Permalink
The U.S. does not have a CES or Centerlink, unemployment benefits are paid by the states.
“A gross over-simplification. Unemployment benefits are paid from the contributions a person made, when these run out it is called Welfare.”
thanks Rua
I suggested when they run out there is little stat record of those people (unlike oz) w/out polling
Garrett Must RESIGN.
And he should take that sleazeball Joel “Hand in the Till” Fitzgibbon with him!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/peter-garretts-department-repeatedly-warned-about-roof-insulation-danger/story-e6frg6n6-1225829221787
Which of course is one of the reasons why Spain and Italy are in so much trouble. People have moved to Spain to receive higher wages, but now the economy has turned down, Spanish unemployment has sky rocketed because it is cheaper to employ people in other European countries. As Krugman explained it:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/06/spains-problem-illustrated/
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/anatomy-of-a-euromess/
confessions
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 8:44 pm | Permalink
If it’s any consolation Ron I’m not impressed by your posts – those I can read that is.
but th ones you can not read contain unbelievable praises for you confressions
Strangely enough Abbott went for Rudd, not Garrett. Garrett’s safe. Move on.
Now Sniffwell puts his 2c worth into Insulationgate
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/11/2817236.htm
Interesting, I haven’t read that article as yet. Before I do, I wonder if Tanner approaches it somethng along these lines:-
1. When the only way of getting information to the public was by way of radio/newspapers…journalists and politicians were in a symbiotic relationship. Politicians needed journos to get their info out there. Media owners needed “filler” – to take up space between the paid advertisements.
2. Often the recipients of the information had no choice but to receive the information – apart from switching off the radio or reading the spors pages only.
3. Blogging cuts out the need for a “middleman” to get info out to the public. However, the public have to choose to log onto the politicians website. How many Australians actually choose to do that.
#2518 – Diogenes
Welcome to NSW (although admittedly BH is more like a part of SA in reality).
I told you I wouldn’t trust Garrett with a box of crayons and I was proved right.
He should have stuck to singing.
Diogenes
Is the “painted hotel” – the one featured in Priscilla Queen of the Desert still in existence?
I heard it had closed down, but maybe thats only a rumour.
By whom?
So you voted for someone you didn’t trust? I’m not so sure Garrett is the fool.
Interesting comments about Fairfax’s SMH.
Speak to rusted on Labor supporters and it’s a rag, full of conservative bias.
Speak to rusted on Liberals and they accuse it of being written by “lefty” journalists (but admit a conservative editorial bias).
Whatever, it has got to be light years ahead of Murdoch.
I still don’t understand why they can’t track changes to their online articles.
Seven Perth had a local version of Insulationgate which featured the Mother, but didn’t mention the bit about calling for Garrett’s sacking, but they had a bloke who had Batts installed under the scheme which resulted in a roof fire – they also mentioned there were 23 reports of fires caused by Insulation, the majority were caused by insulation installed PRIOR to the Govt Scheme.
Hopefully Seven will have the video up later.
Abbott hav disgrace used deaths of 4 aussies for politcal benefit
MSN played along incl ABC to sensationalise
However think a more experience polly than Garrett always makes sure who is to blame and in Radio interview he said a “minority iresponsible” w/e saying who he meant We know who he meant , but Garrett left door open for media to pounce
not a good news story for labor , worse for grieving familys , and may hav legs tomorrow
I’m sure they do Ron, I’m sure they do. You realise I’ll be watching out now don’t you?
Belinda Neal says Up Yours Mr Rudd:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/belinda-neal-says-up-yours-mr-rudd/story-e6frewt0-1225827411393
LOL! That story is from 4 days ago, and is a complete misrepresention of what happened.
You’re literally retarded.
You mean like in a word document? Yellow bits and strike-thoughs? What is the point for feeding that kind of document to viewers.
However, no doubt they keep copies of every page that was ever displayed on the web, including earlier versions of “changed” articles. They just don’t show any version but the last version to the public.
Troothy
me old china
chk the calendar sunshine
You should be on the high seas detering and rerouting those funnily colored chappies and chappesses
Hurry along now your old sole you
Australia awaits your tinnie travails
I sense a beat up.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/radio-ads-breach-may-cost-neals-seat/story-e6freuy9-1225828923827
Frank
I sense a load of shite with a side order of spite
More own goals from our Indian Friends.
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=427661
So do I Frank. I reckon its a Labor HQ back ground briefed article to damage Neal…..
My anecdotal evidence (one person reporting conversation on telephone to brother who lives in the electorate and is a labor party member) is that HQ will get it’s way….Belinda will lose and indeed is the “laughing stock” of the area.
No, I mean if a word or sentence is changed, they should put an asterisk that you can then click on, and it takes you to the bottom of the page and explains why there has been a change. Slate.com ads corrections this way, for example see here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2244165/
The Guardian as a link at the top of all their articles called “Article History” which lists when the article was first uploaded, and details any changes made to the article since that time.
It doesn’t have yellow bits but does have strikethroughs with UPDATES listed below so readers can follow the evolution of an article as more information comes to light throughout reporting. Blogs do it more than the online MSM. It annoys me no end that things just change with no apparent reason or acknowledgmeent for doing so.
Perhaps more like Google Docs, where you can view the change history in a separate tab.
It’s just a sign of bad journalism. Good journalists admit mistakes when they get things wrong, and correct the record accordingly. Bad journalists pretend that a mistake was never made.
libs dont like belinda cos she told JB what she thought of her and gave liddle brendan a nice serve
on a plane twas, and then JB and liddle brendan cried to mummy MSM
That was smacked down like the whinge it was
Peter Young
That fact the ALP HQ has dropped its erstwhile solid support, having imposed Neal over the locals last time, and thrown her to the branch jackals suggests to me that the internal polling is right in line with your anecdotal report.
I am developing a theory that because seemingly only males attack belinda they are suffering from penile anxiety
in fact recent posts by some seem to reinforce this
#2773
I don’t think it has anything to do with working journalists. I imagine it is a management decision by Fairfax – that is simply to display the latest version only of an article.
I’ll be shocked if she survives.
Which is just a dumb newspaper mentality.
JV – #2775
I was talking about her losing the pre-selection.
However, you are possibly right that HQ have polling suggesting she will lose the election if she stands as the Labor candidate…hence HQ doing the beat-up re radio ads to ensure she is not pre-selected.
Is “industrial manslaughter” Abbott’s Latham handshake? It’s so absurd and obnoxious that even the uninterested general public might sit up, take notice and write him off. The next leadership satisfaction poll will be interesting.
#2779
Probably, thus there is no necessity to attack working journalists for the decision or question their professionalism. By all means direct your venom at management.
The public should be forced to watch one QT. It would be the only way for them realise how utterly useless and inept most of the Coalition are, and how much better the Rudd front bench are than the trashy opinions served up by the murdoch gossip columnists.
The public doesn’t even suspect how pathetic the Liberal and Nationals are.
I doubt it. No media outlets even bothered picking up the big story yesterday that the coalition would probably embrace an ETS (Big Tax on Everything) from 2021.
Please no!
Gusface
I live in Robertson, but don’t know personally the branch members who have been attacking Neal up here lately, so I can’t ask them for you. I suspect any anxiety they feel might be limited to wondering if their names have been written down and put in the freezer yet.
The Iranian president has announced that they have already produced 20% enriched Uranium:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/feb/11/iran-protests-22-bahman
#2786
ROTFLMAO :lol
Thanks BOYS for providing invaluable support for my theory
Tell us what happened than ShowOff
Belinda Neal said that her anger management course didn’t exclude her from getting angry with morons such as yourself.
Shows
LOL. Good one.
She didn’t go dckhead, so pretty hard for her anger management course to tell her anything.
Christ Labor stooges are pathetic.
Correct, she didn’t “go dckhead” because this makes absolutely no sense.
You’re avoid the subject once again ShowsOff.
Don’t you have a party hack meeting to run off to?
Truthy
PM Rudd ordered Neal to attend “counselling”, not “anger management counselling”. She attended counselling in compliance with that.
The media created a “myth” that she was required to attend anger management counselling, and unfortunately I believed that myth for about 18 months until I did the research. Therefore don’t attack Ms Neal for failing to follow orders-that is unfair.
What I am shocked about is that Rudd has not corrected the misapprehension held by community members. he has allowed the myth to flourish.
ABC news tonight said the opposition launched a “ferocious attack on the minister [Garrett]“. What? Are these people watching the same QT as me? Hunt asked him a series of soft questions which he batted away with ease, and then because it’s Thursday went for their usual censure motion which was very weak indeed. I don’t know what information some journos are using to file their reports, but obvjective fact obviously isn’t one of them.
Good to see someone else arguing with him for once, and making the same comments about being a stooge. But he will never admit it.
#2798
Are you questioning the professionalism of a working journalist?
Much depends upon perception. Maybe thats the way the journalist perceived it – whilst you perceived it differently. The journalist is still reporting “honestly” on what she/he saw.
However, to be frank, it would have been better had the journalist left out terms that are emotive such as “ferocious”. and possibly replaced attack with questioned/queried.
Marky
???
Who what when
From La Gratton:
Young Master Peter
You could never be Frank, even in your wildest fantasies!
Barnaby Joyce is a bush pig, but not as smart. He got his Finance territory now, he will snort, fart, smell, look ugly and stupid but think he is economic clever.
Gusface
Balls envy for sure! She has too many of them.
I’m questioning the accurracy of what is being reported on ABC news. The opposition’s ‘attack’ on Garrett in QT was not ferocious, not was it even well orchestrated. It was feeble and weak.
OPT
A touch of the Iron Lady for sure.
I’ve got 3 things to say:
1. Bob is a bigger Liberal Party hack than Truth Hurts – Bob, your true colours are showing.
2. Thomas Paine: Your comments earlier tonight were 100% spot on!
3. Melbournians, I feel sorry for you, you’re about to have Steve Price inflicted on you all over again.
confessions – #2806
So if you were the journalist who had to lodge your “copy” in a short time frame you would have written:-
The Opposition today made a feeble and weak attack upon Minister Garrett”
Or would it have been best (with hindsight and without time restraint) for a journalist to have written:
The Opposition moved a censure motion against Minister Garrett today over (X). It was defeated along party lines.”
And, Truth Hurts: Stop bullshiting, we all know you’ve never voted Labor in your life.
What’s wrong with “The opposition today attacked the Environment Minister, Peter Garrett, over his handling of the free insulation program.”?
gez shot off straight after my last post to watch APAC , got Senate estimates , thought it just had to improve if i watched long enuf , it damn well didn’t at all
Confessions
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 9:15 pm | Permalink
‘but th ones you can not read contain unbelievable praises for you confressions’
“I’m sure they do Ron, I’m sure they do. You realise I’ll be watching out now don’t you?
”
well treat me gentle , I may hav a soft hart ,
somewhere
confessions
I was thinking yesterday that the way political stories are reported has changed a lot in the past few years. Once it was largely controlled by the Canberra Press Gallery. They had a lot of influence over how issues played out in the newspapers. Tthe television and radio media in turn picked the slant up from them. In other words, while they did not all agree on everything by any means, the Gallery members were the key ‘opinion makers’. If something was done that was bad policy, then there could sometimes be a consensus about it. The journos in the gallery were mostly experienced and respected, so their opinions carried weight in a ripple effect out into the media. Michelle Gratten is from those ranks, as is Laurie Oaks and a few others, but they now don’t exercise the same influence on how others report political events in Canberra. Newspapers and television source their political news from a different pond including their own opinion-makers, who are becoming more and more partisan on the right.
As an example, I thought the Abbott CC policy even 10 or 15 years ago would have been absolutely demolished by the Canberra press gallery at the outset, and Abbott would have been ridiculed and humiliated for the rubbish he has put up as policy. But it didn’t happen because without an influential Gallery, a lot of TV and radio seems to take the lead from right-wing online columnists of Murdoch and Fairfax – without any in depth analysis first that would have exposed the policy. It was dealt with on a purely political level without any focus on the merits of it. Abbott did not get a blowtorch to his belly (to quote Neville Wran) but got credit without scrutiny, which I think is a new thing for political reporting in Australia. It has some US overtones.
All of the above is possibly because of the eclipse of print newspapers, and the rise of the internet.
They will put out a positive statement on supporting Greece Thursday making it seem they will put something together….Wall street will shoot up….come Tuesday it wont come together in any meaningful way, then Wall Street will take a dive.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61A14E20100211
I think Peter Garrett should resign. The government has made a mess of all of environmental programs.
The government is now doing one going going the road of blaming the individual, this is not good enough.
The guidelines have been a mess and the programs have been botched. They were rushed in without any thought about regulation.
To carry on about Barnaby making a mistake about billions and millions is silly stuff, his comments about debt however were
very embarrassing and stupid.
marky
westralia
timor leste helicopter crash
qld black hawks
Iraq deaths
Car accident fatalities
Bushfires
Where in farnuckle do we stop?
JV
I disagree with your analysis (not where opinions are beingsourced from) to this extent-
a. Journalists have the job of reporting “facts”. In doing so, their perception of things will colour what they write, although they should attempt to delete all subjective and emotive terms (something which is almost impossible to do at times).
b. Opinion writers have the job of expressing their views (no doubt coloured by their own prejudices, but which should be made apparent in the article). To be credible, such opinons should be supported by “facts”.
Now I know where the French are coming from with their attempts to ban the face-covering niqab – to avoid grim discoveries like this:
“Groom goes to kiss bride – and discovers she is bearded”
An Arab ambassador called off his wedding after discovering his wife-to-be, who had worn a face-covering veil whenever they met, was bearded and cross-eyed, the Gulf News reports.
Highly unfair of the ambassador – doesn’t he realise it’s inner beauty that counts.
In years gone past I’m sure this would’ve been the statement used. “Ferocious” is not only wrong, but emotional and subjective. Leave that to the tabloids.
Well it wouldn’t of been that because the opposition moved a censure motion against the PM. Hence the feebleness of their performance in QT.
2815 – Surprise, surprise, surprise.
So Sloppy Joe thinks “you are entitled to slip” for Barnyard.
Maybe it is important, but hell – I sure as hell know what I would prefer to get off with.
The government is blaming the people for installing insulation in an incompetent way, but hang on, yes they may be acting incompetently and treating young people poorly but are they not completing their work under the regulations set by the government. It is easy to blame the operators and yes we have alot of crooks but are they not operating under a scheme administered by the government and funded by the government?
I noticed during QT Rudd with a big smile on his face and trying hard not to laugh – hardly the sign of a government under pressure.
I think the Germans would be better off saving their money for the Spanish economy where they have lots of exposure and more likely to have a successful outcome. And I don’t think the other countries have much spare to offer.
So if all the PIIGS are going to need some bailing they might want to pick the horses that can run in a straight line.
Bet the Germans are wishing they stayed with the Deutsch-mark now. And how popular will the govt be if they bailed Greece?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8509946.stm
There’s Enough Rope for Sloppy as well after Barnyard.
Gary Bruce, another stooge?
link for 2818
http://www.smh.com.au/world/strangebuttrue/groom-goes-to-kiss-bride—and-discovers-she-is-bearded-20100211-nsrg.html
Peter Young
I agree about that distinction between reporting and opinion. And that’s what used to happen more. The political reporting was more in depth and events held up to the light through good reporting. There was also better analysis of the meaning of events and informed balanced opinion. It’s largely missing now though. Although we always look back nostalgically – maybe it wasn’t that good.
evan14 – #2824
That’s probably why many of the great unwashed consider parliament a circus, a politicians wangker talking shop and something they couldn’t care that much about.
Hockey in many respects is worse than Barnyard – he stabbed Turnball in the back so he’d keep the Shadow Treasurer gig, he went back on his word and is trying to pretend he never supported an ETS, and the man frankly has no concept of economic policy.
BTW Terese Rein is on tomorrow night’s “Better Homes & Gardens” – continuing Channel 7′s lovefest with the Rudds.
Tony Abbott – Not interested in economic
Joe Hockey – tutu wearing pretender for the Treasurer
Barnaby Joyce – Not passionately involved as a pretender for Finance Minister.
yes, it has to be the worst economic team ever assembled from both sides of politics.
So who is blame for environmental programs which are overspent and which shonks are getting paid by the taxpayer?
i will say this though the previous government i admit was much more corrupt and got away with it and this issue is so minute compared
WMD, AWB i suppose we could write a book.
Peter Young
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 10:05 pm | Permalink
PM Rudd ordered Neal to attend “counselling”, not “anger management counselling”. She attended counselling in compliance with that.
The media created a “myth” that she was required to attend anger management counselling, and unfortunately I believed that myth for about 18 months ….
What I am shocked about is that Rudd has not corrected the misapprehension held by community members. he has allowed the myth to flourish.”
Kevin Rudd has corected that publicly and slammed th misreporting
th Daily torygraph naturally do not want to give headlines to there beatup exposed
BTW , as said to you before , Debby O’Neil per a branch member who spoke to us on PB one nite , there is legs in stiory at least some in branch want her gone And that for 18 mths i’ve said same thing , not impressed
At same time 00 Milne has been ruthless & given his drunken display a few years ago , him talking about proper standards is hypocritical
jv @ 2813: I agree, and to give you a good example of that groupthink you speak of, the only press gallery journo that I’ve seen who’s been critical of the oppostion’s appalling QT tactics this week is Crikey’s Bernard Keane. If I hadn’t read Keane or watched QT myself, and just relied on the others in the MSM I’d have the impression the opposition had performed brilliantly in QT this week and that Abbott had had a good week.
In fact nothing is further from the truth: whoever is responsible for their tactics and questions should be sacked: they should’ve gone after Garrett yesterday, and had more questions about the giveaways to FTA TV, but both these came late in QT, and the FTA giveaway has now been dropped altogether. The questions to Garrett were easily batted away from him and he handled the censure motion with aplomb, which was characterised by Abbott hysterics rather than a serious opposition intent on fact finding.
Debby O’Neil has suport in branch to replace Neal
I think slipups should not be hanging offences… We all make mistakes..
But to state that we cannot pay our debts suggests he is out of depth in this portifolio.. And to think he was a Chartered? Accountant..
Ron
I must have missed Rudd’s “slamming”.
When did it happen? Have you got a reference/link to the slamming?
Hockey rarely puts in a good performance on Lateline, and tonight is no different. But Jones having a shocker as well. Does he really believe the Lateline audience wants to see cross-examination of Hockey about the tutu incident?
Maybe Labor would be wise to dump both Belinda and Craig Thompson?
rogan,
I watched the interview and completely missed the tutu reference. Just proves Hockey is a political figure of no account I suppose.
GG
I thought it was clarke and dawe
As promised here is video of Seven Perth’s take on Insulategate.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/video/perth/-/watch/18084897
Gus,
He’s the racehorse that can’t work out why he’s been gelded.
What to do.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61A1AD20100211
i cant find the video grattan refers to- anyone have a link?
And I think this is one reason why they cant bail out Greece, it would be pouring water into a sieve. The Govt will never be able to stick to its austerity measures, the economy will keep stalling and they will require top ups and become like a leaky pipe.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-11/european-leaders-hammer-out-greece-aid-before-summit-start.html
GG
There seems to be a few one trick geldings here as well.
RON
If you are having difficulty finding a reference/link, can you nominate a date ( or range of dates) when Rudd did the “slamming” and I will try and assist you with your search.
Andrew
Barnaby:
http://media.smh.com.au/opinion/national-times/ill-go-if-tony-wants-it-joyce-1112635.html&exc_from=videobox
It was a bit frightening watching Hockey on Lateline – the would be Treasurer. Phew!!
PY
I believe th quote I saw may actualy been made on PB , it was short starting with Rudd saying recent reports about Belina Neal were inacurate , and then basicaly saying th first 2 lines of your post of what th truth and untruth was I remebered it cause th inacurate word struck me as generous at first , but then thought these pollys cannot quite tell jiurno s what they reely think
Apart from peeing in your eye if you get too close for comfort, what other tricks do our local geldings perform?
Hockey was literally sweating bullets. It started with a little moisture on the upper lip and by the end he was drenched.
GG
The dance of the seven viles?
Hockey is such a total fraud. He can’t see the difference between the need to cut government spending when growth and inflation are both at 3%, and the need to continue government spending when growth is 1%. Nor can he see the difference between governments with 70, 80, 90% debt to GDP ratios, and Australia which doesn’t even have 10% yet.
And of course Hockey trots out the usual canard that Labor MPs are all robots that were delivered by storks.
More ,dunces don’t you think?
Oh for crap sake! Hockey attacks Ken Henry because he happened to take some questions on notice! What would Hockey prefer him to do, just make up stuff up? LOL! Now he says that “business creates jobs”, even though the Howard / Costello governments constantly claimed that they had created 2 million jobs.
Hockey sweating bullets puts me in mind of a Megadeth song, the lyrics of which really sum up Joe’s position.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/megadeth/sweating+bullets_20091363.html
I think that is term for the collective group of pin dancers
gus,
May all your angels be counted.
Peter Young
You should send some of your journalistic advice in Piers direction.
http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2010/02/murdoch-defamation-payout-spigot-piers.html
gus,
All your angels are belong to us.
Actually I don’t agree with that, I think she’d be to the left of the current coalition, and would find it hard to reclaim her former supporter base LOL.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/im-never-running-again-hanson-20100211-numo.html
RON
Is it possible that what you “thought” you saw on PB was a post by me, in which I wrote out a suggested Media Release to be made by Rudd ( but to my knowledge Rudd has not as yet adopted my suggestion or made a Media Release along similar lines).
I yelled at him at that point SO. How hypocritical can a pollie be. His comments about Ken Henry were woeful and Tony Jones has to be thanked for sticking up for Henry.
But we got the message. Oppn pollies are ‘real’ while, in my book, Labor pollies are ‘UNREAL’ in the language of my kids when they were younger.
As long as I dont run into right angles then I am happy.
Gaffhook – #2863
Piers Ackermann can educate himself..I have no intention of assisting him. He is also an opinion writer, so please don’t blacken the name of “journalists” by visiting any of his sins on journalists as a group.
PY
if it was yours then I must hav been drinking alot of VB’s , and even that is a ordinary let out Give me your post no and date made, I’ll look it up and I wwill remeber if i saw it
Shows
me dear old mum always says that to me (she was raised RC)
Are you with the same angel bank as her?
“As long as I dont run into right angles then I am happy”
Gus , there ar round right angles to watch out for , as well
Agreed. To claim, as he did, that the reason he turned up to listen to Turnbull’s speech was because he was the Member for North Sydney was a cop out. The reason he was there was to cover his butt when he attempts to make his run for the top job when Abbott is defeated. Joe wants to then say oh, but I supported climate change action, I was there for Turnbull etc. He’s probably a nice guy but he hasn’t a loyal bone in his body.
gus,
obtuse is much more your style.
shows on is just revealing his inner prison warden.
Yes, his comments about Henry were atrocious and of this isn’t the first time he has made them. But it does demonstrate that the Liberals have absolutely no economic argument whatsoever at the moment. They simply trash the reputation of some of our smartest public officials. I didn’t hear the questions Henry had to take on notice from Joyce, but as every sane person knows, the questions Joyce asks are often completely bizarre, so I’m not surprised Henry didn’t have that information at hand.
I think Hockey was projecting, what he meant is he WISHES that Labor politicians weren’t real, so then he could be returned to what he sees as his god given right to govern.
I would respect Hockey more if he just said what he meant. If he just said that we didn’t need a surplus, and that it would be better if 200,000 more people were on Centerlink benefits.
Ron
I had this discusiion with Mus before
http://arthistory.about.com/library/weekly/bl_leo_vitruvian_man.htm
RON – #2870
I will do it, even if it is a big ask…and I wouldn’t normally do such a thing ..even for a friend.
I don’t need an angle bank.
Get with the times G.G., it is an internet meme:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us
GG
Sometimes i get a bit acute for my own good
Shows On,
I usually wait for memes to catch up with me.
Costelloitis or jellyback as its known by its medical name?
gus,
When was the last time anyone accused you of being a cute anything?
I missed lateline interviiw
entre nous
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 11:34 pm | Permalink
“Hockey is such a total fraud.
Agreed. To claim, as he did, that the reason he turned up to listen to Turnbull’s speech was because he was the Member for North Sydney was a cop out”
did Tony Jones ask th obvous ?
like what hasHockey being th memebr for north Sydney got to do with him being there when Turnbull spoke
RON
Is this the post you thought you saw where Rudd slammed the media for creating a myth that he ordered Belinda Neal to attend “anger management counselling:…..
#763
NAB analyst Alan Oster thinks there will be 0.25% interest rate increases in May, June, August, and November.
Ron @ 2883
No he didn’t. At first I thought he meant he was in the seat adjacent to Turnbull’s (not being a Sydneysider I wasn’t totally up on the geography) but that isn’t the case so i assume he meant just because he was an MP and if that’s the case why shouldn’t all the other MPs have been there as well?
You’re making the mistake of expecting things Hockey says to make sense.
Hockey says the most absurd things, admittedly with a lot of conviction.
GG
Until I changed my email,quite regularly
normally they started with “so you think your cute saying….”
Shows On,
Seriously, these “experts” have a pretty average track record. Last week every single economist predicted a rate rise. Did not happen. Today everybody predicts unemployment to rise: it goes down.
You’ll forgive me if I treat their short term, let alone their long term prognostications with disdain.
And a bellly full of KFC helps
Gus,
Using Cutepdf does not count.
ShowsOn
You’re not wrong there. Hockey has adopted the Abbott ‘just oppose everything’ stance and it doesn’t suit him. He was all over the place tonight and achieved very little other than to insult Ken Henry, defend the indefensible Barnaby and Joh B-J, veer off into Queensland politics, put up tissue thin reasons for sitting with Turnbull, take umbrage when he should have let it go and joke around when the questions were serious.
Foxtel CEO Kim Williams thinks that NewsRadio will eventually become just an audio feed of the ABC4 TV news channel that is going to start late this year. I think he is figuring that the ABC will have to cannabilise the NewsRadio budget in order to properly fund the TV channel.
Ron
Post #763 was made on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 11:56 am .
Page 16 of this thread,
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/02/08/nielsen-54-46/comment-page-16/#comments
entre nous,
It’s because he knows the position he’s defending is crap. Last year he said he would never lie. He’s living a lie atm and he’s having trouble dealing with that.
I don’t understand his handling of the Joyce issue. He very clearly repudiated Joyce in The Age by saying that there was no chance Australia would default in its debts. I don’t understand why he wasn’t willing to make the same statement on TV. When politicians repudiate nonsense spouted by their own side they build additional credibility because people see they aren’t purely partisan.
Hockey’s defense of Joh was just as stupid. Why defend a dead politician who 75% of people accept was corrupt?
PY
must hav missed that damn 5th line when speed reading , yours ,
‘A statement like this is all that is necessary:’
but saw ” ” bit
opening words
“Recent media reports that I ordered Belinda Neal to attend anger management counselling, and that she defiantly refused to obey that direction are incorrect.
my memory was th generous word “inacurate” as I said
it was a indeed generous word in your bloody thingy of “incorrect”
so i was pretty close re softness of what “Rudds “critisism of th beat up
politicaly PY , I would not and think reason Rudd has not saiid this is to prevent furthr oxogen to story as Daily Torygragh will just keep headlining it if given more oxoxgen
SO 2885
That is possible but I increasingly treat what bank economists say with a grain of salt. They are not disinterested observers. I find they tend to err on the high side in interest rate forecasts, and that also often coincides with the interests of their bank. Minutes of RBA meetings are always the best guide.
Young PY will relate to this twitter retweeted by Divine miranda:-)
GG,
I think yer right. Someone somewhere suggested he should call it quits and go and enjoy his family. Good advice and he could always take a run at State level. He’d make a good Premier if he could get his conscience in order.
I can’t find it, but The Australian’s media section had an article about those financial analysts, they say they are really advertising for the bank.
#2897 – RON
I am astounded that Rudd has let a media myth run now for 18 months without correcting it. Further I am amazed that following the Sunay telegraph article last Sunday which portrayed neal as defiantly disobeying his orders he has not steped in to correct the myth.
I would have thought as a matter of fairness an justice to Belinda Neal (however much he dislikes her) he would have stepped in, to prevent an injustice occurring in the pre-selection battle.
Alternatively, he may have been happy with the media myth at the time it was created because it made him look tough, even though it belittled Belinda Neal. Further, he doesn’t now want to correct the record, and couldn’t give a stuff about Belinda.
Whatever the true explanation, I personally find Rudd’s behaviour strange, even bizarre. The whole incident has caused me to look at Rudd in a completely different light.
Hockey was asked to return to Sunrise up against Rudd on Fridays, but he refused:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/hockey-not-up-to-joining-kochie-and-kev-at-sunrise/story-e6frg6nf-1225828945314
entre nous
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 11:52 pm | Permalink
Ron @ 2883
“No he didn’t. At first I thought he meant he was in the seat adjacent to Turnbull’s (not being a Sydneysider I wasn’t totally up on the geography) but that isn’t the case so i assume he meant just because he was an MP and if that’s the case why shouldn’t all the other MPs have been there as well?”
thanks entre nous
agree with you no ticker , wants to liked and now into lying when reely he was doing same weak act he did on leadership spill , sat on fence then , and did it with turnbulls speech coving all bases he thinks not realizing lying not smart
and worse sitting on a fence , means you stand for nothing at crunch
BTW
Bushfire Bill
Good to see you making a more regular appearance.
#2899 – Frank
I don’t relate to the twitter cos it reads like one of Ron’s posts and I can’t understand it.
Is this Divine of You Think You’re a Man…but you’re only a boy fame ?
Perhaps the words of Divine are particularly apt to descrbe Ron…
You aint man enough to satisfy me
th Ladies do ,
you just dont hav th right equipmnt , so to speak
ask Show Off
#2908
LOL
The Guardian is live blogging events in Iran. Let’s hope the people’s uprising prevails.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/feb/11/iran-protests-22-bahman
save that for Show Off
it will send him crazy
err will rephrase , crazier
Which one, the real freedom one or the Israeli bullshit one?
More here.
And still more. And twitter.
What th hell you talk about Halftruths
people like Karroubi etc put there lives on line in last hour IN Iran rite now showin resistanse against a rotten govt
I know you guys have been talking about it but the Garrett thing is to me truly bizzare and can only be explained by a total failure of journalistic standards. And frankly I’m not seeing any distinction in quality between a journalist and an opinion piece person, they are after-all all insiders.
But back to Garrett. Home insulation is good, Fed Govt subsided it.
Given foil is a risky product, is almost certainly almost exclusively a state govt consumer affairs issue, and worker safety is either a State or Fed industrial relations matter.
How anyone could be disgusting enough to try and make political capital out of the deaths of workers, or pathetic enough to report it as if it was serious genuine politics needs to go outside take a breath of fresh air and then find a mirror and take a damn good hard look at themselves.
sense Iran has reely moved alot
“remember that even in the heady days of protests this summer, it would have been unthinkable for protesters to DEFACE an image of the Supreme Leader. In a short eight months, the demands of the demonstrators have evolved, and their tactics have advanced as well.”
“i will say this though the previous government i admit was much more corrupt and got away with it and this issue is so minute compared WMD, AWB i suppose we could write a book”.
Said, marky marky
Couldn’t Joe just turn up on sunrise, hilariously say of Rudd “he doesn’t know if he’s kev or Kevette” and be lauded for his brilliance like when he appears on Q&A?
And of course this is all relevent in the Australian context because of our Deputy Opposition Leader in today’s editorials:
And of course that’s what is happening. Why is this relevent to Australia? We as a democracy should be supporting the peoples movement against the fascist leaders who continue to subvert democracy in that country. I have confidence the people will eventually win, it will just take time. Meanwhile we should be criticisng calls for Iran to be bombed, and should offer our support to those who put their lives on the line to protest against an oppressive ruler.
Well see there is a real freedom movement in Iran… these people want freedom of speech and to free Iran from the Islamic extremists.
Then you have the faux Israeli freedom movement which only purpose is to boost the security of Israel while shitting on the rights of Iranian free speech.
Agree Jasmine , both Abbott and MSN hav sunk to new lows
What happens if a workplace acident on a new school block getting built under Educ Revoluton , does Juia get blamed
# 2921: If pro democracy advocates from Iran turned up in boats on the Australian shoreline you would no doubt be screaming for them to be returned to their country. And if you didn’t I’d be pinging you for your hypocracy. You have no credibility to comment on the misfortunes or the struggles of those in other less fortunate nations, or their attempts to protest against oppressive regimes.
Tony won’t like Peter Hartcher’s piece.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/be-like-the-kiwis-says-abbott–but-they-cant-fly-20100211-nv6k.html
#2924 Thanks Gary … the leader of her Majesty’s loyal opposition may well not like it but i loved it and i’m going to bed on its strength
no he wont Gary on 2 pointys , Abbott exposed as a dickhead on econamic , and Garratt issue not rated by Harcher , one of more clever journo s
hope rest of MSN follow that non Garratt emphsasis , but thats pei in skys suppose
Well we know that Abbott is a politically disgusting person. Using people’s death to enhance his political prospects probably doesn’t mean anything to him.
Gives a hint that given the power of govt how disgusting he would become.
Yep, and if gutless wankers don’t fight for this country I’d want to send them to the gallows as well.
Whats your point?
Iranians should be fighting for Iran, Australians for Australia. Only gutless wonders pack up and leave and take the easy option out.
Amazed you have so much blogging time Sgt Major troooothie
Must sleep now, have another $1000 to make tommorow.
Awesome economy!
Wow TTH, you really Are a nasty little lowlife tosspot aren’t you?
Guy on radio claiming it was hard to use a proxy server.
Thought I would see how hard it was googled proxy, google suggested I finish with sites ( with 11 million results) selected googles suggestion, was presented with lists of sites to use.
Oh yes that was hard, Conroy spends 100′s of million to increased the difficulty of finding a porn site by one google search. What a wank.
Transcript of Barcelona Tonight story on Insulategate.
http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-tonight-articles/home-insulation/
William, Please note post 2928 – TheTruthHurts
Seriously, you should ban that person for at least a month. There is a lot of stupid banter that goes on here at times that you call a halt to but post 2928 surely deserves serious action from you.
Up all night, off and on, nursing a sick dog. Tuned in a few times to the hourly ABC radio news bulletins. They were all about what the Opposition reckoned.
* Garrett should go as the insulation scheme is “botched”
* Joe Hockey whining “we need real people” in politics e.g. Barnarby Joyce, not “fakes” e.g. Rudd, Gillard Garrett and Tanner.
* Rudd has let aborigines down.
* Latest unemployment figures show failure of Rudd government to rein in interest rates.
That’s it. Several late night news bulletins in a row. Not a word or even a summary of the government position on any of these.
The journalists are after a scalp. It’s a rite of passage to bag a minister. I mean, no self-respecting government has made its bones until they’ve lost a mnister or two, ditto for the Opposition snaring one. It’s all in the script. Someone has to go.
Sickening.
Is that all Toothy? Like i said before, you are very very cheap.
And a Government, BB. Interesting piece from Master Electricians bloke talking to Fran Kelly. He thought Garrett had acted quickly when notified of any problem and discussed everything with them.
Hope the dog is OK.
Michelle Grattan is off again.
She almost sounds disappointed. If we had deaths in the Schools Stimulus program she could call for Gillard’s scalp. Don’t worry that every dollar “wasted” in the Schools Stimulus program meant someone had a job and that our economy survivied the GFC all the better. La Stupenda’s basic misunderstanding is to call for “efficiency” i.e. spending less in a program design to spread as much cash money as possible around to save the nation’s finances.
To a certain extent Gillard has to share some of the blame for this as it was she who spruiked the spending as part of the Education Revolution, allowing detractors to call in return for more teachers’ colleges and a revamp of syllabuses. All very worthy things, but not guaranteed to produce the immediate results required. As make-work it was a step up from $900 cash handouts or shovellind sand from my heap into your hole. But the blame attributable to Gillard is minor. The media have decided to treat the recovery as a given; anyone could have done it, either side. Except the Opposition was against the stimpac from the start. These minor details are forgotten in the headling rush to score a ministerial scalp, any scalp.
As a result the worthy insulation program, which will save billions in electricity charges over the life of the installations, is now officially classified as “ragged” and “shoddy”. Is the old boiler suggesting that we should have opened TAFE courses in insulation installation and put off the roll out by a year or two? She doesn’t say. She just carps, whinges and pontificates about a “series of debacles”.
Towards the end of the article she tells us breathlessly,
and then,
and then,
Oh really? Who are these “people”? What are their names? Which part of the public is hoping that national politics is turned into “a contest”? Would that be Coalition voters, all 35% of them? Or perhaps might it be 100% of the opinionistas, who thrive on confected chaos?
La Stupenda is $hitty that Garrett hasn’t yet resigned. The standard script says that the gallery writers get together and decide to go for a scalp. After a few days bootstrapping the story – “minister under pressure”, “fighting for his political life”, “calls for his resignation”, and so on – comes the absolutely amazing news that “leading talkback hosts” are “detecting a sharp mood swing in the electorate”. Detecting it, or trying to lead it? Go on, knock me down with a feather Michelle.
Some lip service is paid to just why the ETS is not yet enacted:
“Mostly” not the government’s fault? All those committees, green papers, white papers, negotiations, endless debates, committee hearings, hundreds of pages of proposed legislation, brought to nothing due to a recalcitrant opposition in the Senate determined to “take the fight to the government”… and somehow it’s only “mostly” not the government’s fault? Yes, that’s right because,
Highlighted by whiom, Michelle? Classic bootstrapping material. If you ever write something negative, be sure to put it in the passive sense: “… is being increasingly highlighted”. when you do it that way you make it seem like just EVERYBODY is saying the same thing. You make youself look like a genius.
Tony Abbott, apparently, has problems, too, from “the trivial to the serious”, but we only hear about “housewives” doing the family ironing. Nothing serious to see here folks, move along, move along…
Meanwhile, Barnarby Joyce has “softened” his stance that we can’t pay our debts, to someday we might not be able to pay our debts, IF we keep borrowing money like we are at the moment. That makes it alright, according to the Age’s (and ABC morning radio’s) political oracle. At least Barbarby is “authentic”. But an “authentic” what? Grattan declines to tell us.
Today’s column is a parody of political writing. It goes out of its way, like the ABC radio news bulletins overnight, to bestow credibility on an Opposition whose poll stock are disastrously low, whose Finance spokesman is a dunderhead and whose main line of attack is to hypocritically accuse Peter Garrett of “industrial manslaughter”, after their side of politics, in particular Abbott when he was the minister for Industrial Relations, did everything they possibly could to nobble such legislation in the early 2000s. If a Labor spokesperson had accused Abbott of manslaughter, of having blood on his hands over spending cuts to Health, we’d never hear the end of it.
Instead, the tired old memes… Rudd’s language is “contrived, his personality… plastic”, he has a “short fuse” (code for: “he bashes 23 year old flight attendants”), his government’s hugely successful stimpac is rife with “overloaded, shoddy administration” etc. etc. Grieving relatives are trotted out and – cop this! – the ACTU has new-found credibility as an industrial arbiter because they wrote to Garrett several months ago.
Sick and tired of having nothing to report except success, the media have decided to do a little stimpacking of their own. They have turned economic salvation into condemnation, relatively high employment figures into harbingers of interest rate doom and, most egregious of all, they have morphed the slanted, biased ravings of a few conservative shock jocks into conventional wisdom.
We’ve heard about “sexing up” a story, but this kind of maniacal bootstrapping, mostly without evidence, mostly based on the simple (some might say “simplistic”) opinions of a gaggle of overpaid, under-worked scandal mongers in Canberra, takes the cake.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/holes-open-in-labors-advantage-20100211-nuzp.html
He can’t help himself. He burls through the dog door at a million miles and hour to bark at the neighbourhood and puts his neck sometimes (fortunately, rarely) out as he goes through. It takes a day or so for him to accept that he’s hurt and then gets all depressed. He couldn’t get comfortable last night so I stayed up with him, telling him it was OK to be sick. Until the prednisone pills kick in (we have a stash in the fridge) I have to keep him quiet.
Must-get-a-bigger-dog-door.
BB,
Spot on. Haven’t heard anyone calling for Barnaby Rubble to be sacked because he is endangering foreign investment with his losse lips.
Good luck with the pooch.
lol – why not just take the whole door out!
BB – good to read your analysis to start the day. Send it to La Grattan.
Hunt now talking to Fran Kelly. Makes me feel a little sick to think the Libs have wiped out all their own mistakes and failures as tho their Govt. was perfect.
Self-serving Wanker, Moi? Department.
Graham Bradley, new Business Council of Australia president yesterday:
Well-known unbiased hack, Matt Franklin tells us that this signals Big Business “losing faith” in, not the government, but in Rudd personally. All Rudd has to do is wipe out all those bothersome state taxes, reduce income tax to companies (and grudgingly, individuals) and then lump it all into an increased GST (which business can passes onto its consumers – youn and I – in full) and things will fine.
They’ll be fine for Matty Franklin too, because then he and his newspaper can run a “Rudd betrays batters with GST hike” campaign.
But when you look at the fine print, Bradley has lost faith, he is showing “disquiet”, maybe only “concern”. But that’s good enough to go with the banner headline treatment.
All part of the “Government in crisis” meme that seems to be being run lately.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/myzone-train-tickets-need-fixing/story-e6freuy9-1225829347747
NSW Labor’s 3rd stuff up …. only 1 more year to March 11
3/1/10 price rise shock for commuters
17/1/10 big announcement on reducing price (in marginal seats) back to pre- 3/1/10 level in many case
11/2/10 figured out the pricing structure announce was incorrect
11/2/10 figured out printed brouchures were incorrect
12/2/10 figured out that pricing is in breach of maximum fare
This government could not run a corner shop properly
Link for #2943 above: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-losing-faith-in-rudd/story-e6frg8zx-1225829368700
BB – La Grattan talking to Fran Kelly was pushing exactly that line. Hunt was pushing the line earlier that if the Govt. can’t run an installation program they couldn’t be trusted to run an ETS. Guess what the journos’ meme will be in the weekend papers.
Idiot In Chief, Michael Stutchbury writes in the OO:
Oh, so the government is in “crisis mode” are they? Further money shouldn’t be “wasted” on school buildings? That’d give Stutchbury’s colleagues at the Tele the chance to trot out those “We never got our new playground/hall/classrooms/fencing” stories from “concerned Mums and Dads” wouldn’t it? A further chance to show us how Rudd has personally bungled the Stimpac: first too hot, then too cold. Never just right.
And now, a speech to the “Australia Israel Chamber of Commerce” last night by the new boy at the head of the BCS is taken to mean that all business across the country has lost faith in the Rudd government.
Rudd “must” act now so that they can trot out the violins in time for the election over the half-finished, broken-promised, debacle that the stimpac turned into. Oh and yes, increase the GST too, according to Bradley. hat’ll have ‘em marching inthe streets.
Even for a bootstrapper this latest campaign, fed off one speech to a nonentity organization, by one person new to the job, is a bottler.
It appears that the SMH is talking out of both sides of its mouth with this article.
“BIG business has openly criticised the Rudd government, questioning its approach to tax reform and infrastructure policy and urging a rethink of the controversial economic stimulus package.
The Business Council of Australia has also warned the Prime Minister not to get ahead of the international community on climate change, condemned his refusal to consider increasing the rate of the goods and services tax and urged him to get cracking on delivering promised infrastructure investment.”
…but called on it to make tough decisions on slashing needless spending.
The business leader specifically targeted Mr Rudd’s contentious $42 billion economic stimulus package, which continues to release public money raised by borrowing for spending on school halls despite apparent economic recovery.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-losing-faith-in-rudd/story-e6frg8zx-1225829368700
Initially it criticises the Government over tax reform and the stimulus package. It must be assumed that it thinks the Government is moving too slow on tax reform because it has had the report from the Henry Review for ages now – must be all of 2 weeks. It also complains about the stimulus package and it must be assumed that the article is arguing for a withdrawal of these packages. I cannot see it as arguing for “more” stimulus, as this would add to inflationary pressures within the community which of cause would lead to increases in interest rates.
However, it goes on to argue for the Government to “get cracking” to deliver infrastructure investment, which as we all knows is now winding down as the private sector picks up. What this means is that they want the Government to take money from thinks like the school halls and spend it on what the 100 largest companies want.
Funny how reducing the debt and deficit is no longer important if the money will be spent on them.
It is also notable that business wants the “average Joe in the street” to pay for this because at the same time that they want tax reform (read tax reduction for companies) they want to increase the rate of the GST.
It is also worth mentioning that again we find a group that was previously inside the Government tent in respect of climate change and the ETS is now making a move to distance itself from the introduction of such a policy. Every week there appears to be some group or other moving away from the then agreed position on this issue. Every time this happens it makes it harder and harder for the Government to move forward with this policy least it over reaches like the Howard Government did on Workchoices.
Unfortunately many in the msm do not even bother to conceal the fact they have never *taken* to rudd and take every opportunity to put the boot in.
On the other hand when labor has the opposition in a corner the likes of shamahan bleats that labor should go easy on the drongos.
This morning on abc news radio the overwhelming story continued. Labor – bad. Liberal – good.
Garrett under increasing pressure to resign. Coalition rally around Joyce.
Coalition are real people. Labor are not.
For heaven sake. Such garbage from the ab friggin c.
And I don’t listen to commercial radio. They are probably many times worse
Too draughty in winter, hot air streams in in summer.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/money/australias-embassy-at-the-vatican-blows-out-by-almost-1-million-and-remains-a-worksite/story-e6frezc0-1225829251491
how is this even news, compare with CONroys wastage, this is just small change
I don’t see what’s wrong with this. The ‘school halls’ spending was a short term stimulus measure. Large scale infrastructure will have a more long term impact.
The APH website is still offline. The sitting is over, guys. Rack off.
The OO is really up to date today
The photos it displays on its front page are
1) The guy who is the owner of the house in in which one of those installers died and he is without electricity. Of cause it is unsaid that it is Garrets fault. It ignorers the fact that they could have had the power back on safely within a short time of that tragic event.
2) An American politician who I have never heard of who died.
3) Frank Sanatra who has been dead for quite a while now
4) More supposedly new picture of the attack on the WTC. Where many people died
Is this front-page stuff?
The paper seems obsessed with death and the past.
Yes, Itep, but when they wind down Schools money, then the media can produce a thousand grieving parents who’ve been dudded by stimulus promises, and loss of funds thereto, because promises “the Rudd government knew it could never keep” were broken etc. etc.
It’s just a variation on the “Rudd should spend some of his political capital” dare they trot out every now and again.
They wish…
The fact is that major infrastructure spending is on the drawing board, and many of the projects are at advanced planning stages. You don’t build highways, airports and ports as easily as you can shoot up a school hall or a new playground. That was the point of the Stimpac: they were projects either ready to go, or that could be got going in a hurry to preserve jobs.
The BCA guy gives the game away with his call for the repeal of state taxes (which “only” deliver 10% of revenue… that’d be about $100 billion dollars in a $1 trillion economy) in favour of increasing the GST, which they can then pass onto their customer base in full. Businesses get a GST refund every month if they’re “big” and every three months if they’re small to medium. Meanwhile, the consumer pays the extra.
Not only that, but Rudd has promised not to increase the GST. It’d be another “broken promise” from a “cash-starved government in crisis” as soon as it was enacted. There are some things a government just can’t do and that’s increase taxes, especially the GST, which is exactly why the OO is spruiking the idea. They want to get at Rudd both ways.
This was a speech by one person to the Australia-Israel lobby: a nothing organization being addressed by a single person, keen to stamp his mark on the organisation he has just become president of. It is not the considered opinion of “business”, no matter how the Murdoch and Fairfax papers want to promote it as such.
We have had a tax review. Let’s wait for the results to be made public.
How could I have missed Shanahan’s contribution to the BCA bootstrapper?
Deary me, now even Rudd’s natural allies – the Business Council Of Australia – have wavered from the script.
And all based on one, single speech.
I dont usually venture into commercial channels, except Cricket.
But i was told to watch Channel 9 this morning to watch how Abbott is going to make a goose of himself over his ironing comment. Boy, did he make a goose of himself. He is really a caricature of himself. He doesnt need us or the cartoonists. He is doing that himself very well.
How many Iraqis were murdered by the bribes paid by AWB and condoned by the Howard Govt. But then the Iraqi lives were cheap, like Toothy, compared with Aussie lives.
Ltep @ #
I don’t see what’s wrong with this. The ’school halls’ spending was a short term stimulus measure. Large scale infrastructure will have a more long term impact.
As you should know the spend on “school halls” is winding down. This expenditure was spread across the nation giving each community a little boost to get it over the tough spots. Do you expect the Government now to walk away from the reminding ones that are half finished or just ready to start telling those schools and communities, tough luck, you were late in the que so you miss out?
There are large-scale infrastructure projects planned and the money has been allocated for them. They will be commenced over the next 24 months as the other stimulus projects wind down and disappear. What “new ones” do you want to start over what has already been planned. The community needs to keep the small projects going while the large projects get up and running.
If you don’t keep the small projects going in the short term then you have a recipe for an increase in unemployment.
The Government has demonstrated good judgement with these matters as the unemployment figures this week has shown. It is rather silly to go second-guessing them now.
Note to Bludgers: this link http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=267 to Abbott’s 2002 speech condemning Industrial Manslaughter laws is on his current web site.
Seems he wants to have it both ways. Our “Straight Talkin’” Tony, talking straight out of both sides of his mouth again.
Dave: Commercial Radio is just a 24 hour a day anti-Rudd/pro Abbott tirade.
However, Alan Jones this morning was getting stuck into Alex Hawke, because Jones is a David Clarke supporter.
Bushfire Bill @ # 2956
Deary me, now even Rudd’s natural allies – the Business Council Of Australia – have wavered from the script.
And all based on one, single speech.
This was always the problem once the Senate rejected the ETS. Getting all those stake holders within the ETS tent was a major achievement for Rudd and Wong but once the Senate pulled the plug it was like herding cats to keep them all on side.
I am afraid that it is likely to get worse as more and more of these stakeholders move away from the Governments policy
Yes, but you can be sure that Karl Stephanovik, that well known Liberal, was doing his best to prop up Abbott.
I didn’t watch any TV this morning: how did Rudd do on SUNRISE?
The Finnigan said
“How many Iraqis were murdered by the bribes paid by AWB and condoned by the Howard Govt. But then the Iraqi lives were cheap, like Toothy, compared with Aussie lives.”
If you think that, you would also have to agree, that since Garrett approved the insulation, any death resulting from the insulation are the fault of Garrett
Anyone who dies in a state hospital is the fault of the state government
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,1,26710734-952,00.html
,
Conroy is the biggest liability for the Labor Government, he really need to be moved
Dovif: If Rudd had to replace Garrett, it’d be a good time to punt Conroy too, drop the dumb internet filter thing. There are some competent parliamentary secretaries waiting in the wings for promotion.
There is some renewed hope in the US Senate for a way through on emissions control. It seems rather familiar in the way it would work. As Prof Garnaut says for us here to pass legislation for the interim carbon price per ton leading into a sensible 2020 target would actually help increase the impetus in the US for something sensible there. Let’s hope those negotiations in Canberra are going well:
Recognise the concept? I wonder if Bomber Beazley smuggled it to Washington in his golf bag?
By the way, Bomber has slipped over on Washington ice and now needs knee surgery before he can present his credentials.
Forgot the link to the Wahington Post story @ #2966
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/09/AR2010020903526.html
Certainly as long as the Greens stay mute on the Liberals joke of a CC policy
Insecurity breeds paranoia………
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/tasmanian-premier-david-bartlett-prepares-election-request/story-e6frea73-1225829567106
And if anyone would know that, you would bob.
#2944
Yes, but NSW Labor has a new strategy to deal with incompetence. Its called the Doggy Doo principle. Everytime there is another stuff-up, they will just roll out Kristina for a photo shoot opportunity and she will look into the camera with that expression – “ Butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth – Come on, you know I’m pretty“. Usually one falls for that – how could anyone resist.
The australian is now saying :
TASMANIAN Premier David Bartlett has arrived at Government House to request the Governor to call an election.
Caught Garrett on 10 morning news, he spoke well i thought, very calm and composed.
Straight after they spoke to a building union guy who said Abbott and the Libs were sanctamonious hypocrits and that if they are calling on Garrett to resign so should Abbott as he made workplace conditions unsafe when he was the Minister and refused to let the union do safety checks on building sites. Which has resulted in a death a day.
Bet we won’t see ABC Main Story
Nope. Of that there can be no doubt.
Also reports that Bill Clinton in hospital with chest pains
Meanwhile, back in SEQ’s electorates … (Currently we’re confined to SE Qld & the near West; so we don’t conjecture about what’s going on elsewhere.)
Schools & communities are rejoicing as buildings many could never have afforded near completion, computers arrive, tradies have had steady employment through the type of financial crisis which usually see them retrenched early & for months if not years …
Everywhere one looks there are roadworks – and Federal money has gone to more than federal roads, it’s also part-funding state and council roadworks. Forget any meme that Rudd will lose SE Qld’s highway seats, or Brisbane seats (in fact, will most probably pick up 2 with unpopular Lib incumbents who survived 2007 by the skin of their teeth) …
We are sadly in a family crisis that means we spend too much time in specialist units in public hospitals here & in Brisbane: watching new buildings rise, equipment arrive; see advertisements for more specialist staff, staff to apply for research grants, patients to volunteer as research subjects; listening to talk of increased staffing, more uni places, hopes shortages will ease … listening to waiting room chats, complaints like, “Why do we never hears about the great work being done here? The Courier Mail’s only interested in is failures. It’s all Bundy & Cairns. At least Rudd’s doing something …”
Employment’s rising! Job prospects are bright. The value of homes has risen, interest rates are still below those of the Howard Government …
Son’s limo & taxi driving friends report foreign passengers’ amazement at & congratulations on how well Australia is doing, wishing their government was as good. Even Weekend Oz’s Australian of the Year acknowledged that.
Sure the Libs are grumpy, but are openly critical about how badly their party has handled defeat, and Opposition (esp in the state House) and curse Labor’s “Timing”, especially Anna Bligh’s – by next state election (2012), roadworks will be finished, hospitals & hospital staffing improved – at the same time admitting that Lib Lord Mayor Cam Newman will also benefit from the same timing next election, when tunnels are in operation. They can’t see Rudd, Bligh or Newman losing. At least they have Cam!
IOW, opinion polls’ results reflect the general community’s attitudes. Few actually read the state & national dead-tree news (& assume, as always, the CM, Oz & their local paper are “Tory Rags”), or listen to talk-back radio, or watch any “real” (ie ABC, SBS) current affairs programmes other than the 7.30 report. Indeed, most act as statisticians know they are: most working Australians have senior/TAFE level ed; most young genX & voting age genY have some CAE/Uni education. And at least in Q (can’t speak for other states) research & critical (as in analytical & evaluative) skills have been part of the curriculum since the last pre-Radford cohort (enrolled Year 1 1961)
vera
Clinton has had surgery to put 2 stents in. He only had bypass surgery 6 years ago, so he’s not travelling well, is he?:
“Bill Clinton has heart surgery”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2817501.htm
Peter Young @ 2972
KKK bats her eye lash a few time and say world peace
and all of NSW ALP problem goes away
Wasn’t here last night or early today, but thanks to Thomas Paine for the updates on Greece & the Eurozone; confessions for the links to the sites on Iran; and to many others for keeping me sane in the midst of the MSM disappearing up its own backside (again) in hot pursuit of…well…what is usually found to be up backsides.
PB rools!
#2951
If I was editor of the paper I would have this story as front-page lead story. The reason I would do so would be to keep in the public’s mind the disgraceful waste of taxpayers money (1 cent would be too much) on religious nutters pursuing sycophantly the Pope – for f. all possible reason.
In particular, I would have asked the journo to expand further on the work Ambassador Fischer does - Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade assistant secretary Richard Maude said Mr Fischer has been discussing a wide array of issues with other diplomats in Rome including climate change and the canonisation of Mary MacKillop. and to point out there are alreay diplomats in the field who can do that work. It looks like Fischer is just a Papal King, on the diplomatic cocktail circuit, looking impressive (well as impressive as he could) and generally playing the role of an emperor without clothes.
What a damned joke.
dovif, your density prevents you from understanding of what i was trying to say. Try something more porous.
he Finnigans
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 8:50 am | Permalink
“But i was told to watch Channel 9 this morning to watch how Abbott is going to make a goose of himself over his iRONing comment. ”
Amigo , how many before make same mistake
“Boy, did he make a goose of himself.”
you too kind , a bigar gooose indeed
my worry he believe , in himself
10 news have a Barnaby v Tanner section every week, just caught the end of it for the first time. Tanner speaking with Barnaby talking over the top of him the whole time and Tanner telling him people aren’t impressed by his jibberish and know he isn’t fit for the fianance job
News presenter said well I enjoyed that but can’t remember what the question was (taking piss outa barnaby I feel
) then asked barnaby if Abbott asked him to step down would he.
Barnaby says “well he hasn’t asked me”, presenter “but would you”
Barnaby “of course”
Presenter “That was fun, can’t wait for next week”
… or even
(which is how they’d phrase a headline if someone, say the Liberal Party, was saying RUDD “must resign”.
I didn’t see anyone else post it, but it must have come out somewhere.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/pauline-hanson-walks-away-from-politics/story-e6freuy9-1225829267580
Hanson says that she’ll never run for parliament again. Thankful end to that era.
At the risk of being accused of lowering the tone of the site
Hi Ron & Finns
I don’t watch 9 (except to sometimes check their 6pm news) Has Abbott the ironing goose been on with Kerry Anne yet?
Not a bad take on things in Business Spectator from Alister Drysdale, who was I believe at one time an advisor to Jeff Kennett.
Have posted the whole article as sometimes Bus Spectator requires registration to see its articles. It just changes from time to time.
Anyway, as we all know, QT is just theatre. On both sides. Our country really would be better served if the crap that has gone on for years is cast aside.
Unfortunately thats just not going to happen anytime soon. The first step would probably have to be an independent speaker of the ilk of a Tony Windsor.
He does that a lot apparently. Mitchell is prime Alan Jones territory too, with Hawke suffering a nearly 10% swing in ’07.
Thanks JV, hope he’s OK, alway’s been a big fan of Bill
Ahh yes. You are correct of course.
dovif
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 9:20 am | Permalink
The Finnigan said
We know Saddam used AWB bribes to pay for arms his fanatics turned on their own people as well as USA, GB & Australian invaders. And AWB is a public company. Howard, remember, washed his hands of it.
By your illogic, Howard & his relevant ministers are responsible for every Iraqui death caused by a weapon AWB’s HUGE bribes bought.
So you, therefore, would be baying for Howard’s & his Ministers’ arraignment for War Crimes much more loudly & more persistently than you would be for Garrett’s or State health ministers’ blood, wouldn’t you? NOT.
Hypocrite!
Cuppa
Could you imagine if the union had called for Rudd to resign?
Their ABC would of blown a fuse, their Online site would kak itself!
The finnigan
That is because you have no point
AWB paid bribe to Saddam Hussein’s regime, so the can sell their excess rice to Iraq
John Howard may have a knowledge of this
Saddam Hussein murders Iraqis
So this is Howard’s fault
YOU ARE A GOOSE!!!!!
Have you ever had rice? It probably was purchased from the AWB. By your reasoning your money went to the AWB and Saddam, therefore you murdered Iraqis
We sells a lot of resources to China, the practice of doing business in China involves bribe for “officials of the state”. China murders Tibetans, Tianamen Square etc. The federal government knows about these bribes, they probably give out infomation on who to bribe. Therefore it is the fault of Keating, Howard and Rudd that Tibetans and Tianamen Square people dies
I am glad I am not dense enough to understand your limited views of the world
Ozpol Tragic
Any prove of this …..
We know Saddam used AWB bribes to pay for arms his fanatics turned on their own people as well as USA, GB & Australian invaders. And AWB is a public company. Howard, remember, washed his hands of it.
Too true Vera. As you said, they’re sure to leave well alone any calls for ABBOTT to resign. Doesn’t fit in with the Liberal narrative they’re running.
Dave @ 2988,
Thanks for the article. But…
What, a new set of rules that will show the actual substance of MP’s arguments? That will leave nowhere for incompetent Govt Ministers or Opposition spokespeople to hide? That will be formulated by, among others, the yobbo leader of the most shambolically incompetent, self-serving & faithless Opposition ever known? Tell him he’s dreamin’…
PS- I assume Alister means ex-UK politicians who retired with clean expense accounts. Might be a dearth of them about…
LOL
Dovif,
“howard, remember, washed his hands of it”
I didn’t pay much attention to the AWB enquiry, it was too heavily political to make much sense of the evidence, but didn’t Howard actually request the enquiry?
Some more good news:
AWB = agrarian socialism.
Not that I have a problem with agrarian socialism. However, the so called agrarian socialists are just opportunists who socialise their loses and capitalise their profits.
These days the agrarian socialists are mainly made up of old families who have seen their financial power dissipate almost entirely. Go back 50-100 years and the forebears of these socialists were living luxurious lives. Wangkers.
Tony Abbott is in such a ruch to political populaism that he contradicts himself at every turn. So much for being “authentic”. When is the media going to pick this stuff up?
Tony Abbott accused Peter Garrett of not creating a risk free environment. But look at what he says about living with risk:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,1,26696721-952,00.html
Tony Abbott wants the Nanny State to control the activity of private corporations, but he opposes it when it comes to defending children:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/02/2614334.htm
Tony Abbott says that Peter Garrett would be responsible under industrial manslaughter laws …. the same laws he opposed while in Government:
http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/Pages/Article.aspx?ID=267
The 2008 crisis is definitely waning and there is no sign of a double-dip. By the time the election rolls around in 7 or 8 months, the Australian economy will be well on the path back to full employment and the Commonwealth budget will be in much much better shape than earlier expected. Great news.
3003
Dude, so the capitalist system got propped up.
You gotta have rocks in your head if you think another crisis is not just around the corner.
They won’t. It doesn’t fit their agenda.
Compare and contrast.
Michael Stutchbury:
Actual economist through proper economics reporter:
Another FAIL for the Oz?
Tasmanian election post.
I’d love to see how the Laborax on here would mount a defense if Rudd was found to be in the same situation as Howard re AWB…
#3006
So now the Deutsche Bank are the experts on good public policy?
Yeah, I’ll believe that when the blood suckers stop taking millions in salaries for their executives etc.
Purely hypothetical Bob, and we’ll never know the answer because Rudd wouldn’t do the same crap that Howard did.
But thanks for raising a situation that will never occur. Keep it up.
Touchy!
Seems the whole point of the argument is lost on Dovif. So who’s the goose?
Amigo Vera, i do like to get very LOW sometimes, like at the bottom of the Abyss where noone understands, noone to bother me, and noone can hear me when i scream …….. shhhhhhhiiiiiitttttttttttt ………….. ffffffffffofffffff
Amigo Ronnie, it is very iRONic indeed. This will enter PB’s Hall of Fame along side wRONg.
Can I let you guys in on a little secret:
AWB is a corporation limited by shares.
It is NOT part of the Australian government. John Howard is not the CEO of AWB.
Cheers.
Guess whose headline:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2817555.htm
I’d love to see how bob1234 would defend himself if he were found in the same position as Martin Bryant.
dovif #2995
FFS, dovif, it was all over newspapers, TV, the airwaves – again & again & again as different parts of the story surfaced, inquiries (inc Cole) were conducted, a USA court action was launched & widely reported. The action not only breached local legislation, it also broke UN rules, USA trade practices legislation ….
Just this week, it was in the news again as someone from AWB ‘fessed up
By your (& the Opposition’s current claims re Garrett in the Reps & on the media) Howard, Downer Try Hansard. Try the Cole & other Inquiry/Inquiries. Try newspaper reports. Try the USA court papers … try doing your own research instead of regurgitating your own bile & others’ talking points.
Since you’re too indolent or blinkered or both to do so – (even bother to Google AWB “Oil for food” scandal) here’s TheOz editorial 30/09/2006 Time to account for AWB scandal
On 6 February 2006 Fed Govt on the defensive over AWB kickbacks scandal
Google lists “3,120 for AWB bribery scandal & Howard government”
There are “about 11,400 [Google leads] for AWB bribery scandal”. Here are a few:
Austrade named in bank bribe scandal … role in assisting the wheat exporter AWB in its dealings with Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq. … http://www.smh.com.au
(22 Oct 2009) The discovery of the “bribes” and a subsequent public inquiry led to the abolition of AWB’s position as the single exporter of Austl…http://www.watoday.com.au
Iraq sues AWB over oil-for-food bribery scandal (2008) AWB has vowed to fight a civil lawsuit brought by the Iraqi Government against it and more than 90 other companies involved in the oil-for-food bribery … http://www.theage.com.au
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Previously a low profile organisation, the AWB made headlines … alleging the Australian wheat exporter used bribery and …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWB_Limited
(AWB) CEO Resigns Over Bribery Scandal (2006) … Wheat farmer organizations are calling for US government and regulatory action against AWB in retaliation for allegations of bribery and other illegal … http://.www.ethisphere.com/australian-wheat-board-awb-ceo-resigns-over-bribery-scandal/
OOps. Wrong end tag after “Talking points”.
Cuppa – #3015
Do you have a link to the actual report as yet. I really want to read it so I can make up my own mind whether it is spin or not.
Didn’t the scale of AWB’s bribery dwarf anybody else’s?
Possibly because only AWB had the enthusiastic backing of its national Govt in following a deliberate program of corruption that constituted a gross offence against good business, international law & common decency.
I gather that while AWB had previously engaged in scattered, small-scale baksheesh in Iraq, it was not until the latter part of 1996 that the big money began to flow into Saddam’s coffers…
There’s no question, PY. It’s spin; just ask the ABC.
Cuppa – #3021
Stupid answer.
I did an essay last year on this subject. I am really interested.
BB
I think the libs have found glen’s notes and are jazzing them up to suit the times
Worth noting is that anytime the Gvt has a good news story,the MSM conspire in a treasonous manner with the Liberal Party to create a ‘distraction”
I wonder how many scandals were buried under Howie, that the compliant and parasitic MSM knew of.
While we agonise over what the meedja are doing to the Rudd Government, it’s nice to see over at Possum’s site that the odds for a Coalition victory actually drifted a little this week.
The public – as an amorphous mass – are pretty good at applying common sense to whatever overheated tosh is thrown at them. All they’re getting out of this week, as far as I can see, is: Joyce is saying silly things; Abbott is talking a lot but not much is cutting through; Garrett is being blamed for deaths but there’s no direct connection between the two; Rudd was on TV; unemployment went down
Individuals will filter that through whatever political bias they already have. But as a collection of messages this week’s not going to change much.
Stupid question! If you want the report, then get it yourself … stupid.
Just for people who live interstate, the dish that Rann and J-Lo are eating is called a pie floater, whic is the local “delicacy”. It’s an upside down pie covered in pea soup with tomato sauce and vinegar.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/fundraisings-high-price-of-dining-with-a-politician/story-fn2sdwup-1225829341039
More bad news for the country Abbott claims has come through the GFC as well if not better that OZ
This on top of their unemployment jumping to 7.3% and The Nat govt talking about raising their GST from 12’5% to 15%
I can see Abbott following suit and if (lord forbid!) he ever got into govt raising the GST to pay for all his pie in the shy policies.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/nz-house-sales-data-worst-in-18-years-20100212-nw0j.html
Peter Young: As Martin says, you can’t chuck $14b at school upgrades without employing people. His parsing of the employment stats has revealed that it’s men more so than women who are gaining employment. To test what might be responsible he speaks to a practising economist who is able to confirm that school building is pretty much the only gig in terms of non-residential construction. Whether Deutsche Bank are ripping off shareholders is irrelevant.
If Stutchbury had applied the same commitment as Martin instead of going on one of his usual anti-stimulus crusades, it would make his article a whole lot more factual. As it stands, it seems to me that because the unemployment figures don’t align with the anti stimulus message Stutchbury wants to give, the factual detail is ignored. That’s one of the reasons The Australian’s op-ed pages are considered a joke by people like myself – it’s merely partisan agenda pushing.
OPL
I have read all that and none of them said
We know Saddam used AWB bribes to pay for arms his fanatics turned on their own people as well as USA, GB & Australian invaders.
Unless you are in the inner circle of financing for Iraq, and you told Saddam “Oh! lets use the bribes to kill Australian soldiers then you are a goose”
Try again
PY
what are you on about?
Cuppa put the link to their ABC story in his 3015 post
Sounds and looks like the results of a big bender.
Diogenes,
That’s a standard hazard for any media-worthy foreigner that visits SA!
Just eat this for the cameras, please…
By the way
top avatar you have there, Aguirre!
All-shattering ka-boom!!!
Quantum
The thing is BHP, Rio Tinto etc are paying bribes to sell resources to China, that is how things work in China
Rudd knows this, Howard knew this, Keating and Hawke knew this.
Any country with excessive trade with China would be involved in some time of Bribery, if you are not paying, you are not doing business in China
So don’t think this might not happen to Rudd
The moneys paid by AWB went into an account in a Jordanian bank owned by the Iraqi government. From there it was accessible by the Iraqi regime to use for whatever purpose they liked. Since arms purchases and domestic repression were two of the major functions of the Iraqi state under Saddam, it follows that the AWB funds were in part used for these purposes. These funds were bribes to Saddam to buy Australian wheat and that was well understood by AWB at the time.
On a brighter note
Surrogacy Bill passed: Labor MPs to cross the floor on surrogacy Bill
Storm Financial investors thrown a lifeline
“STORM Financial victims are on the brink of a “history-making breakthrough” over a multimillion-dollar payout to salvage them from financial oblivion.”
THH
Funnily enough, you are meant to eat one after a big bender. The results can be spectacular if it doesn’t calm the stomach enough.
Kersebleptes @ 3033:
Thanks. It’s my “this makes me very angry, very angry” stance.
#3025
I have been looking for the report since yesterday- ever since people on here were dropping on their knees and praising PM Rudd for the great news. No one can assist me where to find it. I am not going to comment (either pro or anti) until I have read the actual report. You however have clearly made up your mind that the report is NOT spin – without having read the report. I am just wondering how you were able to make the assessment it is NOT spin.
Just a case of blind faith perhaps. Faith seems to be a foundational principle for right wing Labor. Stuff facts or the science…just have faith. Damn religious nutters admit that beliefs are based in faith – a faith in a belief that Jesus Christ “rose from the dead” – not just in spirit – but also bodily. Sorry – faith don’t cut the mustard with me.
Aguirre
Is your name a reference to “Aguirre, Wrath of God” the Werner Herzog movie about the doomed Spanics conquistador?
Try a knife
or if you are referring to its slang term- why tell us your flatulence problems
PY, what report are you looking for?
Vera
Please take more care before you comment.
I was asking for a link to the Report – so that I can decide for myself whether Rudd is spinning or not. I didn’t ask for the ABC report. That merely establishes that some one claims Rudd is spinning.
And not even in quotes. Yep the good ole ABC.
Remember, Janet and co were only put on the board to collect orders for the new iPad.
The 2010 “Closing the Gap” report.
PY
Is this what you can’t find?
http://www.pm.gov.au/node/6480
PY
If so, for someone who thinks they are smarter than any other PBer it’s a bit sad that you can’t surf the net as well as us old foogies
He was a bit of a nutter in real life, as well as in the movie (the Peruvian Conquest, and conquistadores, somehow managed to be even nastier than the Mexican).
Never was Klaus Kinski better cast…
I always felt very sorry for the poor terrified monkey he was holding at the end.
Just like Mr Perrett and Ivan Milat, you should hang your head in shame, especially as you’re a Labor staffer. That sort of comparison is completely insensitive and wrong.
Really, smartarse? Where have I said that?
Link please.
Don’t verbal me.
My beef is what brought me into the thread today: their ABC’s headline:
This headline states categorically that IT IS spin.
But in actual fact, it’s only someone’s OPINION that the report is spin.
There’s a mile of difference between fact and opinion, but that doesn’t seem to worry their ABC.
The structure of the headline does not reveal that it’s someone’s OPINION. There are no quotation marks around the word “spin”, and there is no attribution to who MADE the claim.
It’s presented as a categorical FACT, when it is NOT FACT but OPINION.
As to you having difficulty locating “the actual report”, go tell someone who cares.
dovif
What? All 14,420 + Hansard + the Cole Report ++ Dovif?
You wouldn’t recognise the truth if you fell over it lumbering downstairs! Had read the lot, you would have found it!
As for this umitigated crap, I can only wonder what delusional parallel universe you inabit.
But hey, keep going! With supporters like you, the Coalition doesn’t need any enemies!
No, no, no.
I am looking for the Report on which that speech was based, that provides the research for the bits and pieces relied upon, the facts and figures.
Sheesh!
Time to take the dog walkies I think!
#3047
It is not a question of me thinking that,..but really a question of me having the evidence available which would lead any objective person to conclude that my thoughts were justified.
On the other hand it appears to me that you believe that anything PM Rudd says is the truth.
Pity they didn’t instil an independent inquiry type philosophy, reliance on acceptable evidence etc in people last century – instead of the dogma of blind faith.
cuppa
their ABC giving Obama the same treatment
What next?
Sarah Palin writting essays for their “Drum”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2817718.htm?section=justin
There’s something hilarious about The Australian screwing up the use of plurals as it attacks the Prime Minister’s communication skills:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/yes-prime-minister-it-is-about-the-policy/story-e6frg71x-1225829338024
No more so than you saying “I’d love to see how the Laborax on here would mount a defense if Rudd was found to be in the same situation as Howard re AWB.” If you engage in silly and provocative hypotheticals you will get them thrown back at you.
PY
I listened to Rudd’s speech where he quoted from the report and was quite impressed’
You on the other hand being a Green troll hate Rudd being given any praise.
It’s pathetic Vera. I’m thinking a name change might be in order
… Australian Broadcasting NeoCons
K
Klaus Kinski was nuttier than Aguirre which is saying something. Werner Herzog actually threatened to kill him during the making of Aguirre.
Back to Musrum’s gift for the cry boy who’s full of it
Cuppa
Hate to think of their headlines when Obama and Rudd get together for a catch up!
Vera
Doggone it
Vera
[ I listened to Rudd’s speech where he quoted from the report and was quite impressed’
}
I am simply asking for a link to the report so I can read it for myself, rather than relying totally upon another person’s interpretation of it as you do.
G’day gus
woolf!
The Closing the Gap report is here.
http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/indigenous/news/Pages/ClosingtheGap2010.aspx
One is completely not like the other. You invoked a serial killer as a method of attack, like Mr Perrett. Like him, you should be completely and utterly censured as you’re a Labor staffer.
cuppa
Also notice how they have found an unflattering photo of Obama to accompany the story?
Same as they do with Rudd
Someone was earlier asking how Rudd went on Sunrise? He did very well, very at ease and engaging. I will note that when viewers had the opportunity to ask him questions, the way the media is carrying on you’d think they’d ask about insulation and roof fires. But no, IIRC the questions put to him by viewers (ie voters) were the Pacific Hwy upgrade, when are we going to allow euthanasia, and a follow up from last week about doctor shortages or something like it. IIRC the insulation question was asked by the host not a viewer.
bob1234@3067
Right Bob. He should have used mass murders and genocidal regimes for his hypothetical. Clearly he over-stepped the line…
Possum’s betting market pages, though in their early days, make interesting reading. I’m looking forward to the debates on whether betting “markets” or polling are better predictors of the 2010 election result. Worth a look and will get better as the weeks go by and he gets more data up.
Things i’d like to see out of the 2010 election:
ALP to pick up 1.5% or more on their 2007 result as a national swing.
St Maxine to retain Bennelong.
McTiernan to pick up Canning in W.A.
Christopher Pyne to lose his seat in S.A.
If the above come’s to pass, i will be a politically happy camper in 2010!!
#3066
I will read it now with an inquiring mind. After that I will make up my mind whether satisfactry evidence is available for the opinions held by various community members:-
a. That the PM’s speech was spin.
b. That the PM is the human equivalent of Jesus Christ.
Quantum@ # 3002
Tony Abbott wants the Nanny State to control the activity of private corporations, but he opposes it when it comes to defending children:
It appears that Abbot changes his mind more often that the rest of us change out underwear.
Remember his argument against any ban on fast for advertising directed at children
http://www.bandt.com.au/news/2c/0c037b2c.asp
http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/indigenous/pubs/general/Documents/ClosingtheGap2010/closingthegap2010.pdf
Vera,
Headline + Picture = the almost complete propaganda package. Fairfax, I think it was, had a shocker of a pic of Garrett yesterday, very skeletal closeup of his head.
Diogenes,
There was another Herzog movie, also set in South America (also starring Kinski), about a madman who was obsessed with the idea of hauling a very large boat over the Andes mountains.
I suppose if your star is Klaus Kinski, then you’re more or less limited to making movies about the unbalanced.
Peter Young@3072
Which is fine and good. But that will just be another opinion (albeit an informed one). The point of the OP is that the ABC is using headlines to report opinion and fact.
A response given
Desired effect achieved.
should have been be no itallics
The same link to it was in Rudd’s speech I posted earlier but I had
‘No no no’ screamed at me
http://www.pm.gov.au/node/6480
Thanks vera, I saw that but just couldn’t stand the demands anymore.
Diogenes @3040:
Yep. To be honest, it came about when I was switching after one of those predictable meltdowns that killed one forum (decidedly not political, BTW) and created another. I didn’t want to keep my old name – fresh start, new ideas, drop all the baggage etc. That forum went down the drain, but I liked the name.
I think the idea of combining crazed, raving idealist and perennially luckless hothead is somehow appropriate for a political forum.
I’ve been lurking since at least 2007, and that’ll be what I mostly do from now on too.
Peter Young,
Don’t you ever feel even just a little bit embarrassed at the rubbish and “contrived” controversy you continually post here.
You try vainly to project yourself as some sort of superior analytic intellectual but only come across as a try-hard goose!
As far as commenting on “spin”, the greater majority of your posts are spin themselves!
A bit more reading and less commenting would probably do you some good, but I have my doubts, somehow!
Kersebleptes – Fitzcarraldo! V good movie.
and = as
#3078 Gary Bruce
Before making the admission you are a Labor troll – you should have been given a warning that you were not obliged to comment but any comment you did make would be later used against you.
imacca,
The remorseless calculators in the bookies’ heads must be terrifying opponents.
Are there books run on the various economic indicators, as well? It would be interesting to put the bookies up against the economics forecasters…
vera #3068
Ah, but I see an oasis on the horizon. This is the end of Newspoll data collection week.
So the oh so transparent MSM can soon put aside all the beaten-up crap & dishonest memes for another week!
I believe you meant ‘to report opinion as fact’
3082 – Bugger, I wish I’d said that.
Beat me to it
Don’t hold your breath
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/houserules/index.php/theaustralian/comments/blow_in_forgets_labor_gospel/
Aguirre,
Yes! That’s it!
And have fun lurking! It’s very informative, but can sometimes be frustrating.
K and Aguirre
In Fitzcarraldo, Herzog made the crew actually drag that bloody ship over the mountain. I think they also came to mutiny.
You will, Gary, you will!
Diogenes,
Hell! Maybe Herzog drove Kinski mad!
I find it laughable that we have one poll showing the Libs losing comfortably as compared with 3 others seeing them lose comprehensively and some commentators think the Libs are back in town.
bob, quoting from the Oz. LOL. Still seeking that desired effect?
Gary
The Lib media need to make hay while the honeymoon shines
Your arrogance is highly amusing.
The Aussie economy is fine so long as there are no external shocks, something over which we have little control.
I wouldn’t be assuming the risks have deminished that much as yet. European and American stimulus money will wane some time soon, negative equity mortgage debt problems are still chronic in the USA and to become a larger issue mid year. Unemployment is worse than figures show according to one analysis which I think I linked the other day, which showed the lower paid segments reaching near depression levels. Unemployment is still high, and maybe improving slightly but that is still equivocal. US states without a continuing stimulus will have to balance their own budgets which will mean cut backs.
At the moment traders/commentators are going on how wonderful a peice of poo looks when the light shines on it from a certain angle. And then the market goes up.
And of course there is Europe which is struggling to get some growth going and Spain with its 19.5% unempoyment and rising, still in recession having contracted another 0.1% and recession predicted to continue until mid 2011. Debt to GDP 11.4% and rising fast. And its manufacturing sector still failing badly having contracted for 26 consecutive months and employment in that sector fallen every month since 9/2007. As Krugman pointed out they are a high cost low productivity economy. And apparently the Central government only directly conrols about a fifth of spending, not sure of the reason for that.
Then there is Greece chronic problems will use up a bit or resource as well.
So there are still some risk factors out there still in the balance and as always there is something from left field that nobody saw coming.
And if something does happen markets will over react as usual.
IMHO
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-losing-faith-in-rudd/story-e6frg8zx-1225829368700
Not before time.
The unions should be reminding voters of Abbott’s record on worker safety when in government every single day.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hypocrite-abbott-made-workplace-unsafe-union/story-fn3dxity-1225829620120
But if you are going to be anywhere in the world Australia is the place.
So is your response. Totally off the mark.
confessions
That is from the 10 news interview this morning. They should show a clip on 10 news at 5pm hopefully
3102 bob1234 – The Oz again. LOL
Tony is up to his neck in Workchoices and the electorate won’t be allowed to forget.
GB, your point? If you don’t like the source you ignore anything past it. Arrogance to the extreme.
In anticipation of questions in relation to the Closing the Gap report, Peter Young can also get some background information about aboriginal health more generally. That can be found in layperson terms here. The site is also a wealth of information for people interested in more details about aboriginal health and related issues.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26712111-3102,00.html
You poor poor QLD folk, lagging behind the rest…
Wow, the BCA asks for spending cuts and an increase to the GST to offset business tax cuts. They’ve never done that before have they.
According to Peter Martin, the Henry tax review found that Australia’s whole business tax regime is NOT higher than the OECD average which the BCA has long claimed is the case. So the BCA are basically trying to just get in some lobbying before the Government unveils its response to the Henry tax review.
It’s interesting you post these things but don’t commit. No comment, no nothing. Why? Too scared of being shot down or are you just after an effect?
Let me see if I can nail this down. Bob’s thought processes – “How can I get back at those Labor hacks? I know I’ll try and piss them off by posting anti Labor articles. Now where is the best place to go for those? I know, the Oz, they don’t read that. I won’t make any comment or commit myself because I don’t need to. Just having it there will piss them off.”
Am I close bob?
Who up until this point were fervant Rudd supporters…
GB i’m not going to bother because a) it’s not true and b) i’m not gonna be suckered in to another one of your revolving door baseless arguments.
Gary Bruce… it’s probably best just to ignore any obvious attempts at getting a reaction.
ie I got it in one.
I know you’re right ltep. I’ve had my last word on the matter.
It’s such a shame that some are so partisan that rather than judge an Australian article on it’s merits, they’ll slam the article and ignore all of it, purely based on the company it came from.
I guess it’s normal for Laborax to be full of preconceptions rather than any sort of logic-based rationale…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2817841.htm
Howard anyone?
I guess the differences really are less than ever…
LOL! According to The Australian.
The BCA has ALWAYS stated that business taxes should be cut and the GST increased. Why? Well, because that would force a greater taxation burden onto consumers and a relatively smaller burden onto “Australia’s top 100 companies.”
The Henry tax review has shown that business taxes in Australia are around the AVERAGE of OECD countries. They aren’t significantly lower, but they aren’t significantly higher. The BCA’s case has been blown out of the water.
Barnaby Joyce wants to keep his job:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/joyce-wants-to-stick-to-finance-role-20100212-nwah.html
As Joyce would say “I am confident that the next polls will show the Coalition leading Labor by 1000%, and we will go on to win the election by more than a billion votes.”
Now maybe the doom and gloomers down here will have a rethink.
http://www.theage.com.au/executive-style/melbourne-remains-no-3-for-liveability-20100211-nv4g.html
Live climate change debate, someone who knows things versus Lord Monckton:
http://media.smh.com.au/monckton-challenged-live-debate-1105706.html?%3Fautostart%3D1&sy=smh&source=smh.com.au%2F
I could be mistaken, but it seems that the moderator is Alan Jones! What a load of crap!
Baranby Joyce wants to retain Finance? Why? Does he think he is doing really well? Why not make him shadow Treasurer then?
There is a Finance career move for Barnaby in this.
It woudl be more accurate to say that the BCA represents the views of the CEOs of Australia’s 100 largest businesses. That does not necessarily mean they repreesnt the views of shareholders. The BCA is just a lobby group who lobby for the self interest of executives. They are not economists or policy makers. Sometimes they evne oppose regulatory reform designed to better protect shareholders. Take a read of their submission to the Fells inquiry on executive pay to see how they view the world (as their oyster).
The BCA complaint about the transparency of infrastructure decisions is quite false. The transparency has improved. The decision are now made by an independent agency (Infrastructure Australia), with State, Commonwealth adn business representatives. The standards for project submission and assessment are clealry documented. You can read them here:
http://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/files/Overview_3_10_1008.pdf
Is it just me or is the world getting nuttier? So Rudd is an extreme environmentalist for putting in insulation.
William, bob is making a fairly transparent attempt to get your ban on his use of the word ‘hacks’ by substituting ‘Laborax’ – which is phonetically the same.
Possum’s Betting Market Friday is worth a look.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/builders-want-money-back-if-nsw-scraps-metro-20100212-nwa3.html
The NSW ALP going from incompetent to …. ummmm cannot find a worst phase …. NSW ALP incompetant
First the proposed a metro that none of the locals wants, then start buying property before it is approved …. now that they are worry that they might lose those marginal seats because of the local blacklash … they are now backed into a corner
If insulation deaths are Garrett’s fault, why aren’t road deaths Albanese’s fault? He’s getting off scot free and it’s time to make him accountable.
Surely industrial accidents are Julia Gillard’s fault. Accidents in the country must be Burke’s fault.
and any death on airplanes is Kevin Rudd’s fault
It is Alan Jones as the moderator, which is just ridiculous because he isn’t impartial at all.
Diogenes @ # 3026
A Pie floter is not unheard of in other states. Harry’s Café de Wheels served it for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_floater
http://www.harryscafedewheels.com.au/Home.aspx?element=1&category=1
PS. Has anyone got on to Hansard today??
I have tried a number of times and it times out.
Dont expect too much honesty from the right wing media or Liberal party business supporters they get to comment for them.
They are at the begining of a long lie campaign to try and take votes off Rudd. Every manner of dishonesty will be called into action. Our dishonest ABC will also participate as much as it can get away with.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/kim-beazley-injured-after-falling-outside-washington-home-20100212-nwi7.html
The bomber is down, repeat, the bomber is down.
Ratsars
I got on to parlinfosearch and was able to use it to find the speeches I wanted. Didn’t try Hansard but would think if one part of the site was working the rest would be too.
How can carbon dioxide be in the earth’s crust when the denialists always remind us that carbon dioxide is a colourless odourless GAS? What is in the earth’s crust is various rocks and minerals that may contain CARBON.
Isn’t it good to see dovif agreeing that it is folly to be blaming Garrett for those 4 deaths?
Bob: Your baiting is getting rather obvious, why don’t you go over to Andrew Bolt’s blog where you might be more welcome?
Maybe if I was attempting to bait, I would be going there, but as I am not, I will not.
Rather simple, isn’t it…?
There are many debaters on Bolts blog too.
So the deaths of Aussie soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan muts have been Howard’s fault? Or Nelson’s?
Shows on
Carbon is stored in the crust as both hydro carbons and CO2, while the CO2 are not a high portion, when they come to the surface, some of the hydrocarbons are heated with oxygen to form CO2, Lava, hot springs etc once heated (ie vocano) all emit some CO2
dovif 3132
Well we are agreed on NSW Labor. I don’t defend them.
Don’t you love the Liberal Opposition’s feigned concern about the young blokes installed to do home installations?
Abbott is a creep, but this is the same bloke who publicly trashed a man dying of asbestosis – he’s got form in this sort of gutter politics.
Well then, bob1234, how about telling us a joke. You know the one. It starts “what is the difference between a pizza and a …. C’mon you know you want to do it.
socrate
I am just replying to 3133 and 3134 by naming Kevin Rudd as minister for Singapore airlines
Typo: I meant to say “the young blokes EMPLOYED to do roof installation”.
Gary Bruce 3142
I always said it was an non-event
The only problem I have with Garrett was his use of words for the radio interview when he might have blamed the incompetant contractors who went and killed themselves
I demand John Howard be charged with the manslaughter of Jake Kovco
I’ve got to laugh at the rank hypocrisy of Sydney radio shock jock Chris Smith trashing Peter Garrett and calling for his resignation, this from the same man who was caught groping women at the 2GB Christmas Party(and was very lucky to keep his job).
But of course the right wing shock jocks and their beloved Liberal Party mates are a cut above the rest of us, as we’re so often told.
dario
if you want to make that argument…. Rudd has said that troops should stay in Afganistan …. so Rudd should also be charged
The main difference in this case is that Garrett was warned that more poorly trained/untrained contractors might die, but he did not stop the insulation. I have no problems with that, he might do it differently next time
If ACMA was a worthwhile government organisation, Chris Smith would no longer be allowed to host a show on radio.
zoomster
I got on to parlinfosearch and was able to use it to find the speeches I wanted. Didn’t try Hansard but would think if one part of the site was working the rest would be too.
Thanks,
Still can’t access Hansard. However was able to find what I wanted via “Open Australia”
No I don’t want to make that argument. I am showing the hypocrisy of the calls for his resignation. You clearly need some work on your sarcasm meter.
Yes Dario, my comment was also only meant in sarcasm, to point out the hypocrisy. Besides, there are so many other things I’d rather see Howard jailed for…
I’m amazed that Chris Smith has never been reprimanded for sticking photos of his 4 year daughter in the bath on his website – because he pushes the anti-Labor line, Singo is happy enough to keep employing him.
Singo did most of Labor’s adverts in the 1980s.
Did anyone see The Hungry Beast taking the p!ss out of the Ruddster this week. They showed him saying about ten different things were his “number one priority”. He really needs to work on his catchphrases.
Does being told that injuries or deaths might occur as a result of some activity automatically mean that it should be stopped? Albanese knows that hoons will continue to drive cars and kill people, but he doesn’t do anything about it. Life and work isn’t 100% safe.
Garrett didn’t soften any safety standards. In fact, I thought he tightened them beyond the state standards, All that really happened was a surge in demand because of the government rebate.
Whenever something goes wrong, you should always look back at the decisions that were made to determine if they were reasonable given the information available at the time. From what I’ve seen, Garrett didn’t make any bad decisions. Things just ended up badly.
Dio, unless you’re gushing praise over the Rudd government, I wouldn’t expect much of a reply from these Laborax.
bob
But it was funny. They’ve got a sense of humour.
Dio
Its good to have a PM that can laugh at himself,unlike Howie who had legions ensuring only the “image” was seen by the public
Funny, I think this applies equally to both – and Rudd is more obvious about it.
What a load of bullshit.
Diog, but have u got one?
Bob1234
I did not know Labor had an Ax
Come to think of it I miss that funny looking guy in the ill-fitting tracksuit who seemed to just walking aimlessly rambling to himself!
what ever did happen to cliff?
Finns
I was laughing, well more snickering like Muttley but you get the drift.
Oh yeah, and thanks for that advice about telling me to how to communicate to obese patients about going on a diet. That worked out really well. I’ll let you know how the Medical Board hearing goes.
Diog, laughing is not a sense of humour, it’s more of a nervous reaction
I never said Labor had an Ax.
Christmas Island Detention centre like a Motel, better conditions than what a lot of Australians get to live in while these ungrateful illegals protest their applications not being determined in the time frame of their choosing.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/asylum-seekers-protest-processing-times/story-e6frg12c-1225824609413
Finns
The laborax bob 2.1 refers to is a little known character in the Asterix & Obelix series.
More bad news for joyce, sloppy & mad monk
Who cares. Ignore the troll.
Ah Catholis, so caring:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/catholic-student-disclipined-after-setting-up-kill-hookers-facebook-page/story-fn3dxity-1225829745107
dovif
Thanks for giving me a chuckle – AWB and rice. ha ha.
Eventually, each of these four will lose his job: Tony, Joe, Barnaby and Peter. (Sounds a bit like a holy trinity and a disciple)
Any betting on who goes first? Second? …
Seems nobody cares Beazley fell and now he requires surgery in his knees.
So much for ALP loyalty.
aph now accessible
“A CATHOLIC school student has been “dealt with” after he set up a Facebook page that appeared to advocate killing prostitutes.
“The principal of St Laurence’s College in Queensland, Ian McDonald, confirmed a student from the school had been disciplined over the creation of the page.”
This student sounds like an uptight, sanctimonious virgin who REALLY needs to get laid. I think there’s a way we can help him out… and provide the necessary discipline.
I know this is a bad topic to bring up but who is our Head of State, the Queen or GG.
Bryce says she is. Rudd and the Queen say the Queen is.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/queen-takes-on-bryce-in-right-royal-title-fight/story-e6frg6nf-1225829443148
Beazley fell over and hurt his knees. He isn’t a paraplegic. Or dead.
vp@3184:[Any betting on who goes first? Second? …]
Barnaby Joyce’s position is looking very shaky at the moment. He’s my bet for number one scalp.
The “Governor-General-is-our-Head-of-State” was/is an apologist mantra adopted by Australian monarchists. Its motive was transparently pragmatic and political.
Gusface
I am a great fan of Asterix as well.
Troothy reminds me of the battle between “lattesippersocialistsax” and the “caterersblendcretinsax”
Diog, told you it was a nervous reaction.
Back to who crossed the floor yesterday. The relevant bits from draft hansard are:
[Mr Albanese (Leader of the House), 10:59:00 AM moved—That the question be now put.
Question—That the question be now put—put.
[Div No. 297], 10:59:08 AM to 11:10:06 AM, Ayes 76, Noes 58
Question—That the bill be now read a second time—put 11:10:35 AM
[Div No. 298], 11:10:44 AM to 11:14:15 AM, Ayes 79, Noes 57
Bill read a second time, 11:14:21 AM.
Message from the Governor-General
Message No. 282, 2 February 2010, from Her Excellency the Governor?General was announced recommending an appropriation for the purposes of the bill, 11:14:29 AM.
Point of order, Mr Pyne, 11:15:01 AM
Consideration in detail
Bill, by leave, taken as a whole, 11:15:57 AM.
Point of order, Mr Pyne, 11:16:30 AM
Mr Oakeshott, by leave, moved amendments (1) to (11) together, 11:17:01 AM.
Debate continued.
Mr Combet, 11:20:42 AM, Mr Robb, 11:22:29 AM
Point of order, Mr Windsor, 11:25:16 AM
Question that the amendments be agreed to—put.
The House divided and only Mr Oakeshott, Mr Windsor and Mr Katter voting “Aye”, the Deputy Speaker (Ms A. E. Burke) declared the question resolved in the negative.
Question—That the bill be agreed to—put, 11:32:46 AM.
Consideration in detail concluded.
On the motion of Mr Combet, 11:32:54 AM, by leave, the bill was read a third time, 11:33:14 AM.]
It looks to me as if Turnbull might have voted with the government on divisions 297 and 298.
There was a division on Oakeshott’s amendments (defeated).
There was no division on “That the bill be agreed to”. That is where the opposition piked.
TheTruthHurts@3177
For you TTH:
http://www.eiu.com/site_info.asp?info_name=The_Global_Liveability_Report&page=noads&rf=0
Asterix type names for the inhabitants of this little village? I’d like to see that. After all, we already have our own Cabinet.
Why wouldn’t the government have forced the ETS to a division so that those who vote ‘No’ could be shamed in their electorates?
The “real” Asterix names are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_Asterix
He later amended his statement to read:
“The mayor of Townsville (75.0%) Les Tyrell expressed disappointment with his city’s drop in rank (down 4) and blamed the poor score on “… lack of quality of caffelatte served within the town’s limits”.
Tom,
I think it is only if there are two or more people on the floor who disagree with the speaker’s “Ithink the ayes / noes have it” and they call for a division that there is a division.
Yesterday, the Opposition ran a tight ship on that one, to minimise any damage.
Thanks, vp.
Question—That the bill be now read a second time—put 11:10:35 AM
[Div No. 298], 11:10:44 AM to 11:14:15 AM, Ayes 79, Noes 57
New Morgan Poll
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2010/4467/
triton,
The critical one is, naturally, “that the bill be agreed to.” A bill being read for a second time merely starts off the argy-bargy of debate.
Scarpat
You are a bad, bad man.
The Townsville Mayor clearly said it was the lack of availability of high quality Adelaide Hills chardonnay in the premium price bracket that caused the drop in Townsville’s rating.
News Update: The mayor of Townsville Les Tyrell then went on to say that his city’s drop in rank (down 4) was exacerbated by the lack of availability of high quality Adelaide Hills chardonnay in the premium price bracket
First two Morgan phone polls for Abbott have the same trend as the first two for Turnbull. Malcolm went down on the third one. Tony will … ?
I would have thought that the government could have created the appearance of a ‘split’ vote so that THEIR speaker (fair though he may be) would call for a division.
Further News Update: The mayor of Townsville Les Tyrell then went on to say that his city’s drop in rank (down 4) caused rumblings to be heard from under a certain rock at the Townsville Trailer Park. Fumigators are investigating.
Ratsars #3137
Tomato sauce? What sacrilege!
Since WW II (probably before) it’s been Worstershire aka Holbrooks or Black) sauce north of the border! Ketchup (tomato) was preferred by those bloody zillions of bloody “over-sexed, over-paid & over-here” bloody Yanks in bloody beige who infested Qld 1941-6 & ran off with the best looking girls!
And a REAL pie comes with mashed potato, as in:
“Watcha ya ‘havin’ mate?”
“Piez, peaz & pa tatas wiv a shake a ‘olbrooks, Mate. Ta.”
Bloody Mexicans! Doan know nuffin’!
Interestingly, “heading in the right direction” is up slightly from the last phone poll.
vp, it’s “it’s the economy stupid” effect (as always).
Regarding the Peter Garrett issue…..
Has there been any Coroner’s enquiries into the 4 deaths?
If so what was the result..I’ve tried looking but can’t find anything
dovif
Dammit, I thought I explained the difference between Contractors (eg EMPLOYERS) and workers (eg EMPLOYEES) to you yesterday! Doh!
No it isn’t. The motion ‘that the bill be agreed to’ is just the final motion in the Consideration in Detail proceedings of the bill. It is no more or less criticial than a second or third reading motion and defeat on any of the motions means the bill is lost.
Generally, negativing a bill at the second reading is done if it’s considered that no amendments to the bill could make it acceptable. Negativing a bill at the third reading might occur because the parties did not get the amendments they wanting in the CID phase of the bill.
Says it all really – nothing has changed.
OPT, you are simply not telling dovif what he wants to hear.
Two of them died of heat exhaustion. I’m still waiting for the Liberals to explain how that is Garrett’s fault. Did Garrett fail to warn everyone in Australia that it gets hot inside the roofs?
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/02/08/nielsen-54-46/comment-page-63/#comment-401549
Limestone is calcium carbonate CaCO3
It appears that the land clearing laws are working. Farmer cleared off land:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2817875.htm
ltep,
That makes sense.
I guess if a party were able to and did negative a second reading they would be accused of stifling debate. If you have any such cases in your bag I’d like to know what they are.
ShowsOn,
I guess anything heat related would be avoided by the deniers.
Show’s on – Thanks
I was listening to RRR this morning and a caller summed it up (they didn’t censor him)..
He said “working in roofs is %$%#@@ing awful” THere are so many OH&S issues:
1) dust that is probably decades old
2) cramped conditions
3) dangerous access issues getting up there
4) you could put your foot through anytime
5) the electic cables
6) the heat etc…
Also the use of foil insulation is another example of an industry pushed further than it was ready to go.
Apparantly the foil insulation is only being used because all the normal insulation has been used up by the program.
With regard to the insulation workers deaths, we’re having some renovations done, and the carpenter/tiler/roof insulator said that (with expletives deleted)
“The stupid ******** had only themselves to blame, ****ing cowboys came in, got blokes off the street, paid them almost nothing, no safety training, made a motza, do four or five houses in a day. ****ing Garrett had nothing to ****ing do with it, it’s all *******. “
Don, did you put in the asterisks or is it the Conroy filter that did that?
This story was bullshit, who the hell would steal a CD Player. You’d be lucky to get $10 bucks for it down at the swap meet these days.
TTH, were you lucky?
Sorry, unlike a lot of the leftwing dole bludgers in here I actually work for a living and am self employed.
Turned in about $3K this week, not a bad effort even if i do say so myself.
Townsville Daily
Friday 12/2/10
‘The mayor of Townsville Les Tyrell expressed disappointment with his city’s drop in rank 75.0% , (down 4) and blamed the poor score on “… a small element of reckless, criminal drivers who think they can set their own speed limits in day time , and in particular a Mr Trooth ” No reason was given why such reckless drivers disappeared after dark ‘
TTH congratulations but what’s so good about 3 Kroner?
It’s called the Townsville Bulletin.
And what the hells the “rank”?
Whoopie Doo.
Just looked at the French newspaper, Le Figaro. They are running a poll of which News Ltd would be proud:
Do you have any doubts on what is causing climate warming? Yes or No.
Mr Squiggle
Garrett said on 10 this morning that the deaths were still being investigated
So all the anti Labor and out of touch Rudd quips by the media, not to mention the murderer Pete must resign chant by the gutterpress AND their straight talker doing his ironing while telling us what a champ Barnaby is, has failed to give the Libs that winning lead that Tone said “Yes they Could” achieve
You are full of it. I reckon you’re bludging on welfare – bad back; nervous disposition; in your case it’s whatever it takes to get by from week to week.
You lied about voting Labor in 2007 so why would anyone believe anything else you say.
Scarpat@3224:
Mate, with the Conroy filter you’d get a 404 message, “Not Found” for Bilbo’s site.
Is that an improvement on a 502 bad gateway?
Truthy
Are we to assume that you are a professional burglar based on these two posts?
Fits with my theory
Rua@3237:
I thought that was when Crikey hadn’t paid its bills!
don – my faith was restored in the human race this morning listening to local ABC out of PtMacq/Kempsey. I had listened to the tripe on news broadcasts beforehand and read BB’s comments on newspaper articles so was feeling a bit despondent for Garrett.
Hallelujah! little bird on ABC, who has always sounded faithful to the National party, was inviting comments and pushing the line ‘Garrett should take the flake’.
Blokes starting ringing in and saying wtte ‘why – he did what he was supposed to do so go chase the employers and the manufacturers for allowing foil to be used in roofs’. ABC bird absolutely gobsmacked and kept trying the ‘but….’ line.
I was driving the car and cheering like mad. Rural areas so they all couldn’t have been Labor voters but were reasonable thinking blokes and a couple of women. Only 1 women said Garrett should go.
3241 – sorry, ‘flack’ not flake
don
Nah its when Eric Beecher and Diana Gribble, get tired and the treadmill no longer produces electrickery. Or When Bernard Keane runs out of gas.
Scarpet
Am happy to pay your game
If Garrett did not offer the rebate, those 2 guys would still be unemployed and ALIVE
They want people to pay for this rubbish on-line. It’s not even fit for fish & chip wrapping in the dead tree version and is getting so bad that people like myself are often not bothered to read it even when linked by someone and adding a bit of a teaser to it.
The internet is not going to save publications that try to manipulate the democratic process with misinformation,blatant lies and partisan politicking in the guise of “opinion”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/yes-prime-minister-it-is-about-the-policy/story-e6frg71x-1225829338024
Thanks dovif, you may pay me as much as you like
Flake fits in very well!
Scorpio – I’m not going to open that drivel but who wrote it. Franklin or David whatever his name is. They are setting the agenda for the Libs for the election so there’s no way they’re getting a cent out me clicking on their site.
BH@3241:
Glad to hear it’s not just me and the chippie who think the problem lies with the installers.
Garrett supplied the money, that’s all. Or rather, he did after Kev told him to. As I think someone here said a page or two back, “Are Kev and Peter responsible for all the industrial accidents on building sites?”
It’s just ridiculous.
BH@3248:
I couldn’t find an author on that page – maybe it was a group essay, or nobody was brave enough to put their name to it.
Evan14 – just read that. Is that for real?!! What the …..! The bloke should be banned.
Troothy
“Turned in about $3K this week, not a bad effort even if i do say so myself.”
Thats a Sh*tload of Caterers Blend you must of sold … well done
And you know that how?
That’s got to be the stupidest of posts. How about if the train was running late on that day they wouldn’t have got to work and therefore would be alive? Makes just as much sense i.e. nonsense
OzPol Tragic @ # 3209
And a REAL pie comes with mashed potato, as in:
“Watcha ya ‘havin’ mate?”
“Piez, peaz & pa tatas wiv a shake a ‘olbrooks, Mate. Ta.
Bloody Mexicans! Doan know nuffin’!
“The story of ‘Harry’s Café de Wheels’ goes back to the depression years of the late 1930’s.
With the world on the brink of a devastating war, an enterprising Sydneysider by the name of Harry Edwards opened a caravan café near the front gates of the Woolloomooloo naval dockyard. Word spread quickly with Harry’s ‘pie n’ peas’ and crumbed sausages soon becoming a popular part of the city’s nightlife – keenly sought by sailors, soldiers, cabbies, starlets and coppers alike. Harry operated the caravan until 1938 when he enlisted in the AIF during WWII.”
Nothing Mexican about that they are 800 K south
http://www.harryscafedewheels.com.au/History_of_Harrys_Pies.aspx
And the menu.
http://www.harryscafedewheels.com.au/Pies_Menu.aspx
Take you choice
BH,
I used to like logging on to read the latest dribble that the likes of Bolt, Milne, Ackerman, Franklin et al were gurgitating and bootstrapping but I am getting like you and find it just plainly depressing and an insult to my intelligence.
There’s barely one sprucer at the Oz now that is worth reading and even the better ones have been leaned on by management I feel to toe the company line which is to get Rudd Labor out of government no matter what it takes.
It’s sad for our democracy that media barons, no matter how twisted and demented can be allowed to exercise such power. It may have been diminished a bit since the advent of the internet, but it is still a formidable force and it is very much arraigned against the ordinary person and supporting the elite.
European Parliament says no to US accessing bank transaction database.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f81b6a96-1775-11df-87f6-00144feab49a.html
dovif
Rice – AWB – Rice (former) Australian Wheat Board. How can we take you seriously when you assert the single desk seller of Australian WHEAT – AWB sells rice.
Chortle.
Disciplined – shouldn’t he have said suspended for an indefinite period with his efforts noted for posterity. Little wangker
Methinks, as usual, Abbott is over playing his hand. The accusation of Garrett has blood on his hands over the deaths are starting to turn on him. Even Britney Speers on Slynews said it was over the top.
Ming and Holt were repeated warned not to go “all the ways with LBJ” over the Vietnam War. Do they have blood on their hands over the deaths of the Diggers, especially the draftees. Just as well Normie Rowe wasnt killed.
dovif, your density has increased, it must be the cement.
This rubbish that somehow Garret is responsible for the deaths is just that … rubbish
If you argue that line then every time someone is hurt or dies on a project that is financed then the entity that is responsible is the lender.
How silly can an argument get
Abbott is a dill.
He could have prosecuted a case against Garrett that the insulation scheme did not do enough to monitor the shonks, that cowboys were making money and ignoring the guidelines – that Garrett was slack in allowing these guys to get on the list of approved installers.
But No.
I’m certain that when Tony Abbott was health minister some people died in hospitals, ergo, Tony Abbott killed people when he was health minister.
BH,
That piece I linked to is actually an “editorial” listed as opinion. I suppose it can certainly be “both”!
The police should’ve been called immediately.
3264
Almost certainly more than 4 per year (or 18 months or however long this scheme has been going on).
Well, well, well. Poor old Joe will have to retract his ‘boring’ bit. It’s lucky for Kev that Joe turned the gig down. The way Joe is performing lately would mean the tone of the program would be lowered. I’m still trying to work out how he can blatantly lie and verbal the Govt. and get away with it.
I have freebie insulation in my roof thanks to Nude Nut, I used the website to choose an installer, I picked a local firm, I checked the business on the ASIC website, found they had been in business for 11 years.
The guy came and gave me a quote – I had to pay $400 becuase I have a large roof.
The day before installation the insulation companies own electrician came to inspect the roof, he had one of those flourescent spray cans and marked every area to be left clear.
Yet people accept door to door shonks?
Scorpio – typical. Write rot and not put a name to it.
don
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
Scarpat@3224:
‘Don, did you put in the asterisks or is it the Conroy filter that did that?’
“Mate, with the Conroy filter you’d get a 404 message,…”
sayin Ronesque lingo s ar th future ,
throw in asterisks , anytime , whenever in doubt
You know an opposition is in trouble when its big argument against the government is that it is “boring”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2818220.htm?section=justin
Geez ABC – is this NEWS? Wot next man does runner from restaurant?
bb 29459
Why not send that to Cassidy. I’m sure he’ll be carrying on about Garrett on Sunday.
cassidy.barrie@abc.net.au
3273
This is more unusual than doing a runner from a restaurant.
And if people didn’t live in houses, they would also be alive. And if their car didn’t work, they would also be alive. And if the GFC never happened, they would still be alive.
Should Garrett resign?- probably not.
After the GFC hit in Oct 08, there was a wide-ranging debate on the most appropriate way to stimulate the Australian economy. Should it be infrastructure, tax cuts..what?
The ALP settled on the school’s building program and the insulation program.
Was it appropriate to stimulate the Australian economy by pushing billions through the insulation industry – clearly not.
Its no wonder Garrett has Rudd’s support
OzPolT – 2977. Thanks for that info re local news. It’s a bit the same here. Great excitement at local school for new hall now opened. It looks great too and will hold the whole school.
3277
Sorry, could you run that piece of logic past me again? It struck me as crazy but I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Vera – That excitement still to come no doubt with KerryAnne doing what she did with Costello and Latham. Gave Costello a lovely piece and made Latham shovel cow p.. so that he looked like a goose.
Did someone say that Therese R will be on Better Homes & Gardens next week?
BTW the ALP settled on both quick AND medium term injections.
Er, Yes Squig, what are you trying to say?
BH@3280
Try tonight at 7.30pm
BH, of interest is the first point in the following paragraph where Abbott says ‘workplace safety is a shared responsibility between employers and employees’
There are three essential problems with industrial manslaughter legislation as proposed: first, it treats workers like children by failing to recognise that workplace safety is a shared responsibility between employers and employees; second, it shifts the workplace safety emphasis from prevention to punishment; and third, it introduces a new type of vicarious liability into the criminal law.
Me thinks Garrett has got off litely here Suspect Kein rudd has given him a serve private
His omission of Electricans Assoc from a 1009 Conferense even though they would be invited when held & 3 public ACTU warning pre xmas , and non later making Work Safety a huge public issue were seeds for linking to his insensitve and unpolitcal words “iresponsible minority”
Garretts words lacked compassion , seemed from a detached burocrat seeing kids had died , may hav implied kids were to blame and were politcly naïve that when blaming you always DO nominate specific who you ar blamin (in this case he needed to specific say Employers were th iresponsible minority) Garrett has no Union background or experinse in politcs so neither Workplace safety nor politcal smarts when saying those horror words were preesent
Garrett opened th door himself for Abbott (th shark) allowing his (from th outside) aparent possible untidy Minister follow up to be linked directly to those horror insensitive & unpolitcal non blaming words
Nothing excuses th bigar crime of Abbott disgustingly saying Garrett caused th deaths nor of MSN disgrace in sensationalising Abbotts version Fact that Abbott a serpent treated family griefs with such hartless disregard is what he did in 2007 electon on TV a la Bernie of asbestoss fatal misfortune
But Garrett from deed and by mouth inexperinsed non union non politcal savvy need to learn if in a tank with sharks like abbott , and you feed them freebies , and your freebies , they will eat you , and without consciense Think Rudd may tell him so on th side to learn politics seeing in 2007 election campagn Garrett also made a bad gaffe
As said last nite , Wonder what happens if an acident happens on building a library under Educ Revoluton , does Julia get th blame
There is some truth in that. The insulation industry was obviously not able to provide a service for such a huge increase in activity and so was prey to shonky fly-by-nighters coming to make a quick buck with little regard for the consequences. And we’ve seen the result of that.
They will be dealt with by the relevant legislation.
Thanks Frank – would love to but don’t get free to air. Will have to get someone to tape it.
Or, with satellite now – what do I click on the PC to watch it live or is that not possible. Still trying to get used to how to do that.
3286
Tapering the funding at the start may have helped in getting the industry up to speed.
vp:
That may be, but the dispute here was over whether there was a division for the second reading vote.
Naturally, I didn’t post that minute merely to prove that I was right. No, I wouldn’t be so petty. But, following the disagreement, I felt it was important to set the record straight for the benefit of future researchers scouring the PB archives for material for their theses.
Maybe Turnbull knew there would be no division for the main vote, so he joined the preliminary one. I would have thought that a division could have been engineered by the government somehow, to maximize the opposition’s embarrassment. Maybe the rules prevent it, though I didn’t think it was recorded who makes the calls, or maybe there’s a gentleman’s agreement between the sides on these things.
Ratsars #3255
Brisbane’s most famous pie cart – internationally famous during WW II when Brisbane was a garrison city & MacArthur’s HQ (In the old T & G building; there’s a plaque) and photos of GIs & girls being served at it appeared in USA magazines eg “Look” & “Life” (photos also appear in books on the civilian “side” of WW II) & some famous Aussie v Yanks brawls started there or nearby – had stood in Edward St (River side) near the Adelaide St corner a few steps away from the equally famous Shingle Inn at least since the Depression.
For many former USA servicemen returning to Brisbane with War bride wives, the pie cart was a ritual – eminent Q (USA-born) potter Carl McConnell (RIP), exUS Navy married to a Brisbane girl, mentions it. In the 40s & 50s, having a pie, peas & potato w black sauce was a weekend ritual on Saturday when we went with Dad to “the pictures”, and bloody great pies they were too (Mum preferred tea at Rowes, over Edward St’s other side! I can’t remember when it disappeared – I haven’t lived in Bris for 40+ years
Harry’s Cafe de Wheels may be more lairy; but Brisbane’s was a wartime icon & legend that lives on in books & stories of Brisbane during the Depression & more famously, during The American Invasion.
Definitely not called “a floater”; definitely offered with mash potatoes, & definitely with BLACK sauce!
Over a million homes have had insulation installed. This is a good outcome.
How many people died building the Westgate Bridge?
BH@3288
Seven have a similar site to the ABC’s IVIEW where they upload shows – last weeks BH&G is up, and no doubt tonight’s will be added after it’s broadcast – try after 8.30.
Link is here:
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/plus7/
Well, he can’t wriggle away from that Scarpat. In hindsight, of course it would have been better to get the program out more slowly but at the time everyone thought we were in for a colossal meltdown in employment. I guess if you thought that you had the Australian standards in place, which are higher than the rest of the world, then the employers would abide by them and have OH & S in place. And Garrett started out with those stndards and then made them more strict.
3292
Yes a million homes insulated is a good outcome but tapering the scheme might have reduced the bad outcomes (electrocution, fires, heat exaustion, etc).
Too many. It should not have been built. The money should have been spend on PT instead.
Tomtfab
So should Henry Bolte be held responsible for the 35 deaths?
BH @ 3288
Like Frank said, check here:
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/plus7/better-homes-and-gardens/
Apparently episodes are available for 7 days, so atm its still showing last week’s episode. Try later tonight or in the morning.
Oh no!! I’ve inadvertently agreed with Ron because we posted simultaneously. Our synchronicity is back.
Finns, I’m coming back to the Knowledge Tree if it’s not still under water.
3296
I am not familiar enough with the details of the causes of the collapse to say.
BH: I actually think that format suits the PM. He has a very disarming manner in interviews generally, even more so when responding to the general public. The Pacific Hwy upgrade question came from a burly truckie, but Rudd had him laughing at the end. And as it happens I’m watching Lateline from last night – Hockey is terrible, virtually shouting!
What utter drivel. So Garrett forced these people to become roof insulation installers, and the existing OH&S laws were just suspended were they?
Sorry bloggers, what I meant by #3277 is that the government’s stimpac exacerbated and amplified the pre-existing dangerous work practices in the insulation industry.
IN the period when evidence of the dangers in the insulation industry mounted, Peter Garrett had several options open to him.
He went for the option of trying to regulate and improve OH&S practices (booklets etc).
An alternative would have been to cancel/suspend/delay the program.
After all, the government’s prime motive was to provide an economic outcome, the insulation benefits have secondary importance.
Why not? It was quite an ingenious idea to combine stimulation of the economy at the same time as providing a cost effective way to reduce GHG emissions and reduce energy costs for households.
3301
That comment is directed at the second original sentence of 3292, about the Westgate Bridge.
Anyone interested in an audience member’s take on the Lambert/Monckton debate, here are his perspectives. Aside from the strange questions he lists, this bit stands out for me:
Oh dear!
http://users.tpg.com.au/tjhpnq98//pb2.jpg
I run my own business you idiot.
Rather than sitting around on poll bludging all day whining and bitching about Abbott, I’m actually out there making money.
Well if I was I wouldn’t be stupid enough to lug out a massive CD player under my arms, when there are much more expensive items that would take precendence.
Laptops, iPods, Jewellery, Blu-Ray Players and the keys for the Audi out in the Garage would take precendence.
Troothy’s business!
http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/poo-pmpr-thumb.jpg
Almost right. The government’s prime motive was to provide an immediate economic outcome is more to the point. It’s surprising how many people miss the immediacy aspect. Thank goodness THEY weren’t making the decisions when we were in crisis.
Yeah, sure.
Why would anyone believe you. I reckon you’re a welfare cheat and that’s why you can post here till dawn.
Confessions – I agree you. When Kev laughs and smiles it always looks genuine so I can’t work out why the media say he’s not. When Joe does the same I get a little suspicious because it often sounds so forced and then his face becomes clouded when he doesn’t like the question. He’s still not quite grownup.
Just watched a bit of the Jones/Palmer/Monckton debate while cooking dinner. I think Jones stacked the audience but Palmer really is no showman to go up against Monckton. It’s a bit of a farce. Guess Monckton would never front up to a real debate where he could be thoroughly challenged.
The benefits of running my own business mate.
I pull in $3K a week and work my own hours. Ace.
triton @ 3290
Agree. There’ll be quite a bit of discussion about exactly what Turnbull did or did not cross the floor on. I’m just happy that I heard what I thought I heard. Puts senility off another day or two.
BS
Apologies of posted earlier.
If Tone really wanted to score a hit he’d be pointing to the NZ economy while noting they’ve agreed to implement an ETS. But he can’t use that now he’s said NZ is doing well. Another FAIL for the opposition.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/be-like-the-kiwis-says-abbott–but-they-cant-fly-20100211-nv6k.html
Tom Hawkins@3311
Or to be more precise running a Small Business AND claiming Welfare
TTH,
I hope you’re telling the ATO about all the money you’re making installing that insulation.
3317
That’d be right Frank.
TTH is a complete BS artist.
confessions,
Clarke and Dawe waxed lyrical about Barnaby last night. If you haven’t caught it you should.
Having source other than tomato must be a Queensland thing. Am not a tomato sauce user myself but could not have pie with tomato source. It is like pork and apple source or lamb and mint source. Nothing else will do.
Your equivalent in Qld might have served the Yanks but here the last meal many a Digger had before going overseas was at Harrys’ It is also very popular with those needing a bite after a big night out as you can see from the photo gallery.
Harry’s is such an institution in Sydney that it is listed on the national trust register
He also sweats like crazy which I find very off-putting. Like when someone has something in their teeth or on their face and doesn’t know it. The Lateline interview was not one of his best IMO.
On the Morgan poll. The interesting bit is not that the economy is improving but that one might take from the poll that Tony Abbott is getting credit for it.
vp: thanks, I saw it. Very funny.
Why do lefties always attack working people getting ahead in life?
Hey Truthy I used to make that in a day, I now live quite comfortably on $671.90 a fortnight and even manage to save a few bucks.
I will admit my SLK320 is 9 years old, but its mine. I have no debts, no mortgage, my Gold Mastercard and Amex have zero balances.
It does not matter how much you earn – it depends on how much you spend.
I wonder whether Garrett reported the warnings he received onwards to caucus or to the PM’s office?
SBS reported that Garrett’s mum died in house fire 35 years ago
3325 – TheTruthHurts
No one believes you so spare us the tears
SBS TV is getting on the “pressure on Peter Garrett is increasing” bandwagon. ABC was a little more factual: even showed the CFMEU bagging both Garrett (din’t act soon enough) and Abbott (hypocrite).
I think the MSM need to be sent some of those asterisks.
Does it have personalised plates tho??
Then you know you have made it
“Teenager sucked through inlet pipe”
http://www.news.com.au/national/teenager-sucked-through-intake-pipe/story-e6frfkvr-1225829006210
I bet this URL wouldn’t have made it through Conroy’s stoopid filter.
Well that’s tacky, surely?
Meanwhile Bernard Keane demands justice with the immediate arrests of Luigi Galvani, Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla. Just don’t tell Barnaby….
Nah I’ve got little red tits on the tires – to show they are filled with nitrogen. That’s really cool
Much to their frustration news of this issue will be chip wrappings within a week and Garrett with still be minister. The media can sulk as much as they like but they will not get a scalp.
Found a song for Troothy for when he’s in his tinny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkMQJeiK50
vp @ 3323, dunno how you come to that conclusion, and the sample size! Wouldn’t take much notice of it one way or t’other.
the tits or the tyres?
HSO,
I don’t; I’m just waiting for the press.
It is plainly stupid to blame a minister for fatalities in any particular industry because a government program increases funding in it.
Most people will see it this way as it is common sense.
That the media is trying to push this stupid line simply indicates their political position and intention to attack the government to help the Liberal Party. Our dishonest ABC has made itself an active member of the Liberal Party now.
We probably know exactly which segments of the media, which editors, journalists, radio and tv people and newspapers are dishonest and corrupt, and they know that we know who they are and that they are an embarrassment and disgrace to themselves and the industry. Really these are pathetic and under-skilled people who have no self respect and deserve no respect. If their bosses were not rabid right wingers they would be unemployable in their industry.
I wouldn’t be breaking out the champagne on the economic recovery just yet.
This will make the German people even less supportive of a Greek bail out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8511954.stm
A very basic guide to the PIGS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8510603.stm
fair enough, vp. Must say I’m becoming increasingly disappointed with programs such as PM, that this evening ran an “increasing pressure on Garrett” segment that just accepted that there was such pressure (he hasn’t seemed pressured to me, more addressed the issues without raising the least sweat). Moreover, the idiocy of blaming a fund provider is never even pointed to, particularly as Garrett has said how he responded, appropriately, to the warnings he received. If he’d ignored what he was told, he might have something to answer for, even though OH & S legislation is State responsibility.
I used to think programs such as PM were reasonably reliable and less prone to the lines being fed to the ABC by the OO, and taken up by the online news, to name the obvious. Now I wonder are they under starters orders to cover “stories”, even though something like this is just risible rubbish.
Hurting Truth:
What could YOU possibly do that other people would PAY you for?
It can’t be spewing hatred. Plenty of people are giving that away for free.
Why do right wingers always think they should be able to rort the system and get away with it?
HSO – I was an avid listener to AM and PM from their inception. Never missed them unless some kind tragedy (illness) hit us. I evened listened on holiday via the walkman.
But since Lyndal Curtis and a few of her ilk have taken over I can’t stand their combatative voices when interviewing Laborites. It’s as tho they are saying ‘give me the answer I want or else’. So now I don’t bother too often. I miss it but I’m sticking with my decision. Nowdays we just get grabs of RN brekkie or ABC2 Breakfast but it’s mostly background noise. We’re not really listening.
Diog, as a custodian of the Knowledge Tree, my web cam few moment ago says it is still there:
http://users.tpg.com.au/tjhpnq98//ktree2.jpg
Maybe, we should organise a pilgrimage for those PBers with density problem to visit the KT for enlightenment. Few quiet moment under the KT will do them good and some wisdom instilled.
BTW: Where is Nappy-San? Now that he has been unbanned.
Sack Stanhope and his Green lackeys.
As predicted Germany in a difficult political position re a possible bailout of Greece.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a1ggdce_G9a4&pos=8
I have not read this newspaper for many a year, but this would seem to be an indication of (a) the really weak US economy continuing (b) challenges to the MSM business model and (c) the garbage product standards…
http://www.smh.com.au/world/usa-today-orders-unpaid-week-off-20100212-nx2y.html
HSO,
There are still some good programs on the ABC: Background briefing, Correspondents’ report, Spirit of things, anything Norman Swan does, Science show. But most of the news programs are a waste.
William’s blog doesn’t miss much political news.
I take refuge in ABC Classic FM.
Ahhh but they have the news on ABC Classic FM – thats when you have to change channels to avoid the anti govt slant they usually come out with now.
Just heard Abbott on ABC News saying that his government would bring back AWAs, and revert back to WorkChoices era unfair dismissal laws.
“Teenager sucked through inlet pipe”
http://www.news.com.au/national/teenager-sucked-through-intake-pipe/story-e6frfkvr-1225829006210
Now if we apply Abbott’s and Hunt’s logic I guess we better sack the Minister for Public Works because he now has this boys death on his hands
Is Abbott looking to commit suicide?
This is going to be the Libs’ achilles heel come election time. They cannot let go of WorkChoices, because smashing the unions is the absolute bedrock of their political philosophy. They will dodge and weave, but Abbott will not be able to convince anyone that he won’t bring in Son of WorkChoices, because everyone knows that he will.
TP @ 3339 is right. This is the hole that the MSM have dug for themselves. With News Ltd leading the way, they’ve leant right over the edge of credibility. Anyone who reads any of their articles over any period of time learns to balance what they read against what reality is telling them, and mentally adjust.
The more News Ltd play fast and loose with their reporting and opinion, the more readers wonder – even if it’s just at the subliminal level – why the overblown pronouncements coming from their pages aren’t being reflected in real life. And they just balance their thinking to compensate.
So 15 headlines with variations of “Garrett ‘Must resign’” translates into one assessment of “Garrett has something to answer for”. If after a few days the headlines don’t escalate into anything worse, the assessment becomes, “Garrett has nothing to answer for”. Breaking point comes when the MSM need to report on something that’s actually happened rather than more opinions – after that everyone switches off.
The BS meter has already been engaged, BTW. 4 deaths had to be reduced to 2 deaths – the only ones attributable to actual installation. But now that it’s crept up to 4 deaths again, you can smell that rat.
Labour should call it WorkChoices II, which sounds more extreme. Oh, and remember this old video of Abbott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXHR8k29V1Y
Dario,
I don’t think his religion would let him; maybe political suicide is exempt. Mind you, his entries in Saint Peter’s book aren’t looking good.
http://blogs.forbes.com/streettalk/2010/02/11/i%E2%80%99d-rather-get-poked-in-the-eye-with-a-sharp-stick-than-buy-equities/?boxes=Homepagechannels
That video is the REAL Abbott the Conviction Politician. It’s the only thing I trust he’s being honest about. And talking about bringing back Workchoices in the current economic climate is surely political death?
Confessions, it proved to be political death before the GFC hit – John Howard R.I.P.
ThomasPaine
AUD is also interesting…it has bounced very strongly off 86.20 odd levels, which were also support levels back in Sep 09. However January 10 peak of 93.20 did not beat the peaks in Nov 09 of 93.60 odd.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26712482-952,00.html
Joolia must go – surely.
Video of Rudd on Sunrise this morning.
The Government should call Abbott’s bluff. It should go to parliament with a special national OH&S Act for the insulation industry. If the Liberals don’t support it, then that will demonstrate that they are massive hypocrites.
Abbott has some questions to answer.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2818285.htm
ru, nah – should be the pope.
The employment cycle tends to lag the GDP/economic cycle.
There is growing evidence that flexibility in the labour force is one of the factors that kept Australia out of recesion.
Many economic commentators have remarked on the causalisation of the workforce over the last 6 months. People have kept their jobs becuase new arrangements could have been found
Oh noes! West Coast have “no Cox”, says the SEN commentator.
Shows
A good mate who is in the Union movement has a great nickname for tone -Manna
“as in manna from heaven”
First bounce of the pre-season. The long drought is over!
And the vast majority have been wrong.
Psephos,
Does this relate to your private life or the festival of the boot?
The latter.
First bounce of the pre-election season was by Tony Abbott.
Ahh good old Their ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/12/2818426.htm
Meanwhile on Seven Nooz – Mark Reilly’s attack was somewhat blunted when Barnyard basically contradicted his leader by saying that Garrett shouldn’t be responsible for the problems in any way, shape or form
There are no laws against businesses renegotiating EBAs if the business is in financial trouble.
Megalogenis wrote a good article about this.
Labour market ‘flexibility’ (which is just a euphemism for deregulation) is what helped the U.S. secure 10.3% unemployment.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/meganomics/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_misnomer_of_labour_market_reform/
The Finnigans
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 10:52 am | Permalink
“Amigo Ronnie, it is very iRONic indeed. This will enter PB’s Hall of Fame along side wRONg.”
Amigo , iRONic poster dovif a little gooose to you today , and
iRONic Abbott is a bigar gooose on Channel 9 today ,
both sprout high flutin BS ,
both ar Liberals ,
dare I say , how …….
Hahaha, you can rely on Barnaby not to follow the script
MC Ron,
Is this a new rap?
Anyone remember sievx.
146 children, 142 women and 65 men
Now, who was held accountable for that?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=af8bbtmHLfbQ&pos=1
will likely dent global economic growth expectations
eAbbott has proven in just a few short months that he is not up to the job. He, like his mates in the MSM, OVERREACHES every time, which surely makes the base squeal with glee and the middle ground squirm and shake their heads. the questions, how long will it take for Abbott’s polling to head south?
Andrew…..
just wait for the next poll!
Show Off
thanks for anothr lead in
rap on Abbott actualy
Abbott on TV iRONing for ShowOff purpose
TELLING housewivws for goodness sake how to “iRON”
Abbott is 7% in voting suport on females vs males in total polling ,
and this idiot wants to tell ladies , housewives on TV how to iRON
Ron
he was saying “I ron”
another pretender trying to steal your thunder
ron,
I thought the iRon was the latest mass market device that eliminated confusion in written communications between elitist wangkers and the common people.
Oh the iRony
GG
seeing you master of coprites and thats , hope you left a tiny % for me , and not give all to blue baggers
This bit of news along with Germany and Spains last quarter GDP contraction and the revelation that Angela Merkel is going to have some difficulty getting her govt to approve a bailout package for Greece won’t be good for the markets you wouldn’t imagine. Three unpleasant bits of news at the same time after a hesitant week and a weak recovery last night on the hope of a bailout package.
Joyce accidetally said the right thing. They say a clock is right twice a day.
China should offer to bail out Spain, and ask for Rafael Nadal as collateral.
Interesting article of how it works.
*And now off to do some work.*
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e7168fc6-1740-11df-94f6-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1
Looks like Sydney is getting a good downpour at the moment.
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR713.loop.shtml#skip
ron,
yes, the blues are my expensive passion.
But the reason the kookaburra is laughing in the old gum tree is there’s plenty of worms for everybody.
Just doing my sums again; If 1 hectare of trees (approx 400) can sequester 5 tonnes of carbon per year, and there are 100 hectares in a square km, then 20million trees = 500sqkm (lib policy)
If we need to reduce CO2 emissions by 5% (579mill 2001) then we would have to reduce it by 29million tonnes.
that would mean 5800000 hectares which would mean 58000sqkm
That means that policy will only be 0.8% of what is required!!
Is this correct??
58,000 km2 is about two-thirds the land area of Tasmania. That’s the additional land that would have to be planted with trees. Not impossible, but far from easy, since that land would have to be taken out of agricultural production.
centaur
Not even close. Our emissions were 580M in 2001. Our energy requirements will be about 20% more than that. So we actually have to provide 30% more energy and reduce emissions by 5% at the same time.
In effect, we need to reduce our emissions/energy by about 35% to cut emissions by 5%.
And that’s the reason why Abbott’s lunacy will lead to a RISE in emissions by 13%.
is my maths right?
should have “by 2020″ at the end.
scorpio – yes a downpour playing havoc with my Rugby watching…though what could one expect from an organisation with News Corp AND Telstra as shareholders
yeah but dio they are all working on 2000 levels
To be fair, it also demonstrates the lunacy of ruling out nuclear.
centaur
” Is this correct??”
well it may be I beleive that energy companys hav plans to plant far more than that to get credits if ETS goes thru , without cost of Abbotts army
as to ” Is this correct??”
It is applaling that Abbott has been let off hooks by MSN praising his Plan without demanding eithr costing or modeling
Suspect both may fail reality check
Too little, too late – The anti-Filterites have basically got themselves to blame for this.
http://www.block-the-filter.org/Condemnation%20of%20the%20Illegal%20Activities%20By%20Anonymous.pdf
centaur
If our enegy requirements are 30% more in 2020 than in 2000, all that energy has to come from somewhere. It will come mainly from coal stations so our emissions will increase by about 30% without doing anything (as Abbott is doing nothing to reduce coal emissions).
Abbott’s couple of trees will not make any difference.
[BlockThe?Filter is outraged at the recent attacks on the websites of the Australian government
perpetrated by the internet group Anonymous. “I find these attacks are detrimental to our attempts
at stopping this infringement on our civil liberties}
But dont they support freedom of speech and access to the internet,anonymous included?
All Abbott has to do to get his 2 million trees is to give every Aussie one. People who live in units, without a garden, can grow it using hydroponics and flouro lighting.
Every Australian would have their pet tree to remind them of the “environment”.
See, Tone’s plan is foolproof.
I wonder how the petals will spin this?
Gus and Frank
I’m guessing you didn’t enjoy the movie “V for Vendetta”.
I loved it.
I am now wondering why then the government or the greens presented the information in this simple way. ie The libs policy of planting 20million trees would lead to 500 square kms of trees. When in fact to reduce emissions by 5% we need 58,000 sq kms. The policy will not even be 1% effective not to mention the cost.
Cost of freeing up 500sqkm of land by sinking over head power lines you would need 5000 sq kms at even 1million per km thats 5 billion
Dio
Thanks for the spin
didn’t present! I mean
Natalie Hershlag with no hair, YUM!
I’m still waiting for a logical, rational argument in favour of mandatory internet filtering that holds water.
I’ve been waiting for some time now, I can wait a bit longer.
Perhaps not as silly an idea as you seem to think. If every Australian household with a garden (10 million households perhaps?) planted an extra tree, that would make a substantial contribution. Some could plant a lot more than one.
Confessions
I cant help your lack of comprehension and literary skills
No Gusface, you can’t.
vp @ 3351, I wouldn’t disagree with you, and would add the philosophers’ zone and Monica Attard and the psych. number following the Science Show. The poetry and story segments I also really like, and am an avid fan of the music show on Saturday am. It’s the so-called news and opinion segments that have gone down the gurgler, and it’s just odd really. There has been, in my view, a shift in what is picked up for reporting, and how it’s reported on the online news, in particular.
It worries me because if there was something to be seriously concerned about, I’d no longer trust these sources of information/analysis.
confessions
I’ve been waiting so long I’d be happy with a logical, rational argument that doesn’t hold water;
or even an illogical, irrational argument that holds beer.
Psephos@3417
Just wait till all the trees grow up. We will have never-ending domestic disputes then.
Absolutely snotting down. My front garden is flooding!!!
Confessions
Ah, the first step
even if everyone planted 1 each that’s 21million psephos and represents only 0.8% of what is required. And trees only become efficient co2 sequesters ages 5 to 20 to boot
Oooh the media were walking down the corridors of Parliament with Garrett… he MUST resign!
Oh and another interesting article on how their proposed protest rally will be as big a failure as their previous one
http://www.purplefae.com/2010/02/12/quick-thoughts-on-nocleanfeed-street-demonstrations-share/
Hahahaha, Abbott saying Garrett has to resign because he has lost the faith of the union movement! Since when did you give a rats arse what they think Tony!
I think the government need to hammer the point that these attacks on the insulation scheme and school buildings are just the Libs trying to distract from their incredible success. Not enough reminding being done.
Gusface
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 10:33 pm | Permalink
“I wonder how the petals will spin this?”
Quote:
‘These attacks have caused a number of REGULAR Australian’s to consider campaigners against this issue as “alienated “nerds” ‘
except , of couse , confessions I hastens to add
our rational pro filter arguments won th day , again
seriously this has to be the dumbest policy in the history of policies- can anyone think of a dumber one? minimum 5 billion dollars to do 0.8% of 5% emmissions reduction
Frank
the raincoat brigade gets their day in the sun
Veni vidi wanki
Predictably no mention on Lateline of the same union leader’s ripping into Tony. Their ABC at work.
So where are the Greens? Not a peep.
Gusface: some of us gals have moved to 2nd step!
I don’t think anyone has suggested that Australia’s entire emissions reduction target can be reached with tree-planting. But 20 million trees would be a contribution, and in fact I’ve no doubt we could plant a lot more than that if we tried.
True, but that’s also the time-frame we’re looking at for both “clean coal” (if such a thing exists) and nuclear. The only way we could achieve an immediate radical cut in emissions would be to make Barnaby Joyce Prime Minister, so that everyone else would emigrate.
Confessions, you have got to be joking!
If you’re expecting a logical, rational argument from the likes of St Holiness regarding Conroy’s waste of money, slow the net, unworkable filter, you will be waiting ’til the sun engulfs the earth!
Yeah, that was one of many vomit inducing moments during Hockey’s Lateline interview last night, he said that we should all listen to the unions now that they suit the Liberal argument.
Frank
Because their Mums won’t let them
Dario
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 10:48 pm | Permalink
“Hahahaha, Abbott saying Garrett has to resign because he has lost the faith of the union movement! Since when did you give a rats arse what they think Tony! ”
Maybe , this is cue for tony Albanese to roll out Abbotts workchoice views ALEGEDLY in defense of Garrett , but reminding public of th reel Abbott & is tie to Howards workchoises
Dario
I’ve agreed before about the Greens. All I got was grief so I’m gonna shut up.
Graham Morris “I think the Liberals are back in the game” LOL
Gusface@3432
Or the fact that there will be a police presence will deter those who may have their interweb habits be of interest to same
People like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4pQniAoeX4
3417
Not all “households” have tree space (take up entire block, are flats, etc).
It`s actually about 8 million “households” in Australia.
Not all households with tree space will actually plant them.
And when all trees die they release their CO2 back into the environment.
I think Abbott is the Glen Milne of politicians.
West Coast are doing pretty good for a team with no Cox.
I hereby also declare “WangerK” has also entered PB’s Hall of Fame along side wRONg and iRONic.
Wow, I thought Morris died!
Must’ve been a dream.
Jabba
You have finally recognised my divinity
Redemption is sure to follow
We could plant Great Basin Bristlecone Pines (Pinus longaeva), which live for 4,000 years.
The Cox joke is only funny once per game.
dario, he would say that wouldnt he
how about pumping sulphur dioxide into the stratosphere psephos- called Budyko’s Blanket costing 250million and reducing the earths temperature by 1 degree
I decide what is funny.
We would be best to plant natives to comply with conservation laws, and so it has a chance of surviving 4000 years.
Puritan
next you will want to ban D.H.lawrence
The 2006 (?) grand final was best, when the rucks were Cox and Ball.
Woah, steady on! I’m not the one that wants to ban ALL of YouTube.
Morris talking one term government again. Oh good grief. The guy is an embarrassment.
Well, it’s going to be an interesting Newspoll result, doncha reckon? I’ve been doing a quick look at breakfastpolitics over this last week, and it’s been unremitting bash the government all week. If there is no movement in the primary for Labor outside the MOE, the Coalition is still stuffed. However, the hostility of the MSM, including the ABC, is a concern. Not to mention, it gives me the irrits.
Personally I reckon it will move back to the government by a few points
HSO
Thank god the great unwashed can finally see what utter WANGKERS the MSM are.
I predict 54.5-45.5
Morris saying Barnaby is a ‘beauty’ LOL
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/tarp-watchdog-don%27t-be-fooled-by-calm-banks-will-be-rocked-by-2011%27s-300b-commercial-real-estate-time-bomb-422512.html;_ylt=Ak_QeSdlRMLWUVzsbC6x4aRk7ot4;_ylu=X3oDMTE3NzlqMXN2BHBvcwM4NARzZWMDYXJ0aWNsZUxpc3QEc2xrA3RhcnB3YXRjaGRvZw–?tickers=SPG,VNO,EQR,HST,JOE,BXP,RYN
And bugger feetball, cricket is the only game that matters. Philistines!
Gus, typo?
Dario, when you are down there with the “grass root”. everything is a beauty.
Morris on the Kaiser appointment “If the Howard government had tried that it would have had its throat cut”. Hilarious!
Newspoll doesn’t do halfs.
Which is Australian for YOU BETCHA!
Finns
jabba is a very attractive pizza
Bloody filter
A Greek man and an Italian man were arguing about which of their countries was superior, covering many fields like the Olympics, art and music.
Eventually, in a bold assertion of superiority the Greek said
The Greeks discovered sex…..we are superior
The Italian replied
Yes, but we discovered how to do sex with women
Peter
the punchline?
Peter isn’t it way past your bedtime, even for a Friday night?
If it doesn’t move back to the government, I’m going to be wondering about the electorate (which I certainly have before when they kept voting for Howard) or their methodology. Or, the saturation bagging of the government is having an effect. If it is the latter, what is to be done?
Diogenes
i think your first post to centaur had 20% and th next to him 30%
MOE. It just bounces up and down most of the time, and the media tries to make far too much out of every movement
The Greek said:
But the Australians discovered Cox.
Kerry 20 years ago HAHAHA
Was that cliffy young on lateline??
Yes it is. We just had a heavy storm – and it woke me up. So heavy I couln’t go back to sleep thinking of the water flowing into the Harbpur from the drainpipes…and a certain desalination plant.
Harry “Snapper” Organs
Posted Friday, February 12, 2010 at 11:14 pm | Permalink
“If it doesn’t move back to the government..”
m opinion for 2 yrs is Polls been inflatd with Libs polled NOT happy with Nelson & Turnbull , but now Abbott has got them reel Libs happy open to say vote Lib plus a honeymoon bonus of polled people that is “soft”
Ugggh. How good is it not to have to see Howard on TV much any more. Shame LL had to recap his ‘worst’ moments.
My god, was Hitchens drunk???
If I was a Minister I would be so thankful that my “horror disgrace moment” happened in this environment.
The way they have gone after Garrett, What a joke
“yep, no. No, yes” HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Peter, go back to bed and let the grown-ups worry about the desal plant. Here’s some nice pictures for you to jerk off to.
http://www.toydogs.net/maltalaiset/gallery.html
so PY ,
when we say sleep dreams to you , you dont think sex like normals , you dream of :
“to sleep thinking of the water flowing into the Harbpur from the drainpipes…and a certain desalination plant.”
Ron
I think SBS had a show on that late at night
Abbott really is stupid and obviously fuelled by some personal attraction to malice. He liked to give a short jab to a dying man and now wants to imply that Garrett has blood on his hands. The more disgusting the better it seems. Is this a Jesuit thing or just Abbott?
But this is plain idiocy. Nobody will blame Garrett or Govt no matter how hard and how disgustingly low Abbott continues to lower himself. At the end of the day if he and his media mates continue down this path people will get the sense that Abbott is a sinister character and just a bit too fond of filth to be healthy.
That’s why we are securing melbournes water supply for the future, building Australia’s biggest desal plan that will supply 1/3 of our needs.
Queensland has the big pinapple, NSW the giant sheep but Melb the biggest desal plant- I can just see all the school excursions now!
LOL! Ticky Fullarton quotes Alan Jones’ opinion of Rudd as if it means anything.
You may be right, Ron. It just really irritates me that there is a blanket bagging of the government, without any questioning of Her Maj’s Loyal Opposition, so-called. This whole attack on Garrett is such rubbish.
Just give them Darwin Awards and move on everyone
night night
Peter Young, you have seen “Best in Show” haven’t you? If not, I’d recommend it. It’s a film/movie thingie.
More disturbing economic news to add to the bad news we already have.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61B0ZW20100212
Thomas Paine, just as I was going to go to bed. What do you think this might mean for Australia, if anything?
Psephos -
Kristina is definitely NOT a Maltese.
Kristina is a mongrel.
Her mum was a pure-bred Bichon Frise and her father is believed to be a Schitzu. Luckily her mothers genes predominate.
I hope Labor stay at $1.25 to win the election by around July/Aug. I will be stepping in to take it.
On other betting news;
- St Kilds are 4.50 favourites to win the flag ahead of Geelong at 5.00,
- Richmond are actually Spoon favourites ahead of Melbourne,
- Parramatta are NRL favourites at 6.50, and
- South Sydney CAN YOU BELIEVE IT are as short as 15.00 to win the grand final
good grief
#3488
Is that the BBC ocumentary that caused a stir in the UK a few years ago?
If so, I haven’t seen it, but I have read a lot of articles about it.
Well I imagine the Wall street will take a dive tonight. The Aussie market should take a good dip too on the China data and its affect on our resources stocks.
The longer term effects I will leave to our Economic gurus here.
Centre
Aug 14/21 look thereabouts
good grief is in relation to Peter Young @ 3501. I hope you never have human children.
#3507
Rest easy….there is NO chance of that happening.
Karamanlis ought to be in jail. The EU will force an austerity plan on Papandreou, and the Greek workers will have to pay the price for the corruption, dishonesty and incompetence of the previous regime.
Mark Reilly’s Seven Nooz Story on Garrett where Barnyard contradicts his boss and the anecdotal link between a rise in fires in the ceiling and the Rebate.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/video/perth/-/watch/18107330/
No, Peter, it’s a film/movie and for your mental health, I think you ought to see it. I’m off to bed now, but if you google it as a film/movie I’m sure you’ll find it.
You and Kristina, though she’s a very cute wee dog…it’s all getting a bit…weird.
My God,
Just a few years ago when Karamanlis toured down under with his wife the Greek Aussies in Melbourne were falling over themselves to kiss his ass!
One day the Rooster. The next day the feather duster.
Yeah, I nearly choked on my beer when I heard that one. After all, it’s their ABC…
They’re Chinese, not German.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shih_Tzu
And on cue the EU problems gets people talking…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ahuQR4YFStHQ&pos=5
All Greek politicians are corrupt by our elevated standards (though George P is cleaner than most, probably because he’s really an American). But Karamanlis was rotten even by Greek standards.
When it comes to the EU economic problems, it’s all greek to me
KK may have stepped in the poo.
http://southern-courier.whereilive.com.au/news/story/keneallys-comments-about-whistleblower-referred-to-police/
The China news was a bit of a shock and will cause a little bit of panic on Asian share markets.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61A40020100211
*phut*
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/peter-garrett-resists-call-for-his-resignation-over-roof-insulation-debacle/story-e6frgczf-1225829696127
Is this, or is this not the stupidest quote you’ve ever heard? Yep, the insulation scheme wasn’t designed to increase the energy efficiency of homes, or to provide hundreds of people with employment, it was to ENSURE the creation of 1000 deadly roofs.
Seriously, what are these people on?
It seems a theme of behaviour is becoming apparent.
Keneally intends to punish the person responsible for a stuff up in a brochure, and of course she has made the intimidatory remark about a whistle blower, describing him as “veatious”.
So the narrative for Keneally’s Premiership is going to be….find someone, particularly a public servant, to blame.
Can’t wait for the next poll. How long will she last in the job. Is it too late to change leaders for the 2011 March election. Frank Sartor must be sitting back – bewildered.
#3522
“veatious”. shoul read as vexatious
Hunt makes himself out to be a stupid man too.
Who is going to think that Government set out to create a 1000 deadly roofs? The utter stupidity of it.
Hunt is licking the same vomit as Abbott. And in the end they will just make themselves look sleazy and untrustworthy.
I guess they are trying to distract from all the good economic news.
Well one good side effect of another share market crash is it might finish off a lot of these murdoch papers sooner and put their idiot out of work.
NSW Labor promised 13 major transport projects in 15 years. They delivered just 2 and scrapped 11 of their promises.
Is this a world record for broken promises?
http://www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-the-politicians-20100212-nxm2.html
More OO Beating – of those fires how many were homes with EXISTING Insulation ??
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/garretts-roofing-fire-admission/story-e6frg6n6-1225829880090?from=public_rss
The ABC online has persisted with Get Garrett headline all day. Now it reads
Wot?
You say once: impression. You say twice: impact. You persist all day and well into the night: obsession. Garrett is not going no matter how much the ABC might want it to be true.
Are NSW Libs already talking about a leadership change? Mike Baird and Gladys Berejiklian are being touted as future Premiers.
Must say I couln’t care less. No-one, no-one could be worse then Keneally and corrupt and incompetent NSW Labor.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-next-power-players-20100212-nxm3.html
HSO at 3477 and earlier
100% agree with you, vp, BH and others on ABC, Radio National and MSM. Have been an ABC listener/viewer for quite a few decades, and had always had a general respect for their standards. I used to consume some MSM as well, but gave that up a couple of years ago.
I’m still inclined to start to listen to/watch ABC’s news/current affairs programs, but only last until the first example of boot-strapping, or unfounded and manipulative government-bashing, which is usually within the first minute. Whatever happened to reasoned criticism, analysis, or just plain reporting what is actually said or done?
Thank goodness for PollBludger, Political Sword, Poison Pen and others.
I’ve also worried about/wondered if there is any worthwhile way of discouraging what I feel is an escalation of deliberate manipulation and misrepresentation by Australia’s main media sources. I have wondered if it’s happening because many ‘content producers’ are bored with their jobs, and it’s too hard to actually think. So much easier to carp about nothing in particular, to regurgitate LCD lines, to be negative simply ‘because they can’.
Helen
That is of course unbelievable…
Is the ABC corrupt?
At last a little bit of good news today for the US..
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stock-futures-remain-lower-despite-strong-retail-sales-2010-02-12
Yah – atheists are speaking out !!!
http://www.smh.com.au/national/atheisms-true-believers-gather-20100212-nxm5.html
The main story of today was of course the great unemployment numbers.
It seems the ABC has deliberately avoided that good news that would promote the efforts of the Govt to replace it with what is most obviously a beat up that draws a ridiculous bow. It is beyond the pale and just about beyond believability that it is just accident/coincidence.
Has the ABC determined it must support the program of the right wing media against the Labor party?
Ahaha.. this is the reason I couldn’t log on to Hansard this week….
http://www.smh.com.au/national/porn-fans-attack-website-to-protest-against-censorship-20100212-nxmg.html
The beneficial economic effects of the MySchool website maybe showing up already in the real estate market.
At least Labor is looking after the right people – real estate agents and their various assorted hanger ons.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/north-shore-tops-auction-sales-with-100-clearance-20100212-nxmq.html
The British economy is bad enough as it is without the further negative news today that indicates it is going to be a long slow rode to recovery. You have to love the British. Today was full of foreboding economic news that clearly spelled danger for the European economy….yet the FTSE is now up into positive territory. It might not stay there. It should be diving 1%
Spain was again shown to be knackered today, Greece digging deeper into a hole threatening any bailout, China signals its growth will slow, the German economy shock horror goes negative. US stock futures indicate the Dow may be down near 1% at the start. So I guess it must be the positive result of the French economy they are thinking about at the moment.
Bet the Indian Media won’t make too much of a song and dance over this.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/indian-students-slain-friend-charged-with-murder-20100212-nvzh.html
It has been noted earlier but it is ironic to protest censorship by censoring access to information.
I guess the US will be hoping for lots of good domestic data this morning to balance some of the ominous stuff from China and Europe.
#3538
I guess it’s all a matter of perception. I would have thought the actions were a very effective demonstration of the evils of censorship and “the filter”.
As expected .. early trade
Dow Jones -1.4%
S&P -1.3%
Truthy
This article from the Green Left Weekly, Christmas Island refugees under lock-down may be of interest to you.
I suppose it is unfair to query NSW Labor’s right to break promises.
It seems that Kevin Rudd PM makes bold statements of future intent – but then does not follow through with them – so it maybe unfair to criticise.
“On the question of Indigenous policy, I have decided that each year in Australia’s federal parliament the first working day will be marked by a prime ministerial statement reporting on progress in closing the life expectancy gap, progress in closing the gap on infant mortality and mortality of children up to five, and progress on closing the literacy and numeracy gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians”, Rudd told the Progressive Governance Conference in London. held in 2008
In 2009 Rudd made his speech 2 weeks after the opening of parliament, and this year he has improved his performance by making the speech 1 week after the opening.
I guess the difference between Rudd Labor and NSW Labor is that Rudd is a believer in the dictum Better late than never
If the markets don’t drop 2% today then they run by Joyce.
Good
1. Retail sales inched up 0.5% in January, beating expectations.
Not good
1. The euro fell to the worst level against the dollar since May 2009 after Greece’s gross domestic product fell by 0.8%, building on its 0.5% contraction in the third-quarter.
2. The Commerce Department’s December business inventories report showed a 0.02% dip — sliding from the prior month’s 0.4% uptick and disappointing economists’ projections for a 0.2% increase.
3. The University of Michigan’s preliminary reading on February consumer sentiment came in at 73.7, which missed economists’ expectations for a 75.
4. China’s central bank once again raised banks’ reserve requirements in hopes of cooling the country’s swift economic growth.
5. Spain’s official statistics revealing today that its GDP shrank by 0.1 per cent in the final three months of last year …the seventh successive quarterly fall for the Spanish economy, means that GDP was down by 3.6 per cent as a whole during 2009
6. Greece’s economy contracted more than expected in the last quarter of 2009, and was in a deeper recession than previously estimated statistics service data showed on Friday. Gross domestic product (GDP) fell 2.6 percent year-on-year in the fourth quarter, while the data for previous quarters were revised down.
7. Germany, witnessed contraction in its growth in the fourth quarter which means that the euro zone fourth quarter growth will also be revised downwards. GDP seasonally adjusted in Germany for the fourth quarter preliminary reading was revised downwards
8. German Chancellor Angela Merkel resisted a quick bailout of Greece…The German Chancellor is apparently insisting that Athens work out its own problems – as new figures showed that Germany’s own economy has lost steam. Mrs Merkel’s hesitance came as it emerged that Germans have become so disillusioned with the euro, many will not accept notes produced outside their homeland.
9. Mortagage debt time bomb for the middle of 2011
You would have to think Abbott would fit in perfectly with the Republicans..
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/opinion/12krugman.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/its-a-trap-stewart-mocks_n_459766.html
This is great.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/its-a-trap-stewart-mocks_n_459766.html
Quikc Question:
Why do you have a mixed mongrel bitch called Kristina? And can you get her to sit, stay and roll-over with bribes?
They way the US share market is rallying at lunch time from its early fall you would think there was no bad economic data anywhere. Proves that these people trade on nothing but the sentiment of the day and the bit of data they want to focus on. They are certainly paying no attention to the significant data.
They cant help themselves, they gotta buy what they think are bargains laying around in the sewage that is the American economy totally oblivious to the fact that they have just been told world growth has been set back a notch.
I would prefer monkeys doing my investing for me than these Wall street idiots.
Probably before the close there will be nervous nellies and some sell off before the weekend. The S&P rightly should now be below 1,060. That it currently sits at 1076 is warning to stay away.
#3547
I prefer to call them rewards for good behaviour, rather than bribes.
But if Kristina senses one has Smackos in ones pocket, she becomes very obedient.
Deaths must cost Abbott his job: vp
Interesting few days.
Local Lib member comes out and accuses government of costing local jobs because they’ve signed a contract which will send the work O/S.
Government comes out and says never any intention of sending the work O/S, local jobs safe as proverbial houses.
Local member claims victory, back down by government.
Local media agrees.
I would sell my soul for one decent investigative journalist!
Mike Carlton is in form this week
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/all-for-nought-as-barnaby-gets-a-job-in-the-counting-house-20100212-nxem.html
Peter Young
Only 13 “non core” promises out of 15?
So you think that challenges :
*”never never never have a GST” ,
*”build the Ipswich by-pass before the next (2007) election”,
* “fix the Pacific Highway” (?where),
*”Fix the problem in hospitals” (Abbott ripped $1billion out of the health budget);
*”never never change medicare” (yeah right)
*promise, back c 1999 & 2001, 2004, 2007 to “build the 2nd range crossing, to be opened by 2007 (never started),
*promise Vice Chancellors before the 1996 election to increase research funding, etc etc (did the opposite)
* “Not interfere with the Industrial Relations system” (Oh ho ho ho!)
* fund more university places for doctors & nurses (but actually either froze or lowered then) ….
(& I’m sure those from other states could add and add and add …)
and on and on and on for almost 12 years, to the extent that, when the Ipswich Bypass was again promised in 2007, Brisbane’s Liberal Lord mayor said he wouldn’t be counting on it until the check was cleared by the bank & the money in BCC accounts.
And that was during a boom era when government coffers overflowed with loot, not the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression!
No way any Australian government, before or since, can challenge John Howard & his Ministers’ record of broken promises!
And now for an unbiased view:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/13/2818620.htm?section=justin
vp # 3554
Exactly what is “unacceptable” about Garrett’s asking an Oz industry leader – definitely NOT an independent party – to provide hard evidence that any allegation is true, much less an allegation about a foreign product that may threaten his own industry’s market dominance?
Surely, vp, you expect the minister spending your tax $$ to REQUIRE EVIDENCE from an interested party before making a decision?
Would you countenance a minister’s making any decision in favour of an interested party just on unsubstantiated hearsay
Get real, mate!
If Garrett DID NOT ask for hard evidence from an interested party with much to lose to foreign competition – then THAT wouls have been unacceptable!
Dave
Thanks for the link to the Mike Carlton piece on Barnaby Joyce – I loved it
It must be tempting for friends to ask Barnaby Joyce for a loan. You might get lucky when he writes out the cheque
I imagin his wife must ban him from doing the internet banking too.
I happen to agree with the criticisms of NSW Labor on scrapped public transport projects. Indeed I could go further, with terrible waste and mismanagement on the projects that were delivered.
Like Howard’s federal government, NSW should have had the money to build them, thanks to above forecast revenue from both land tax and the GST for most of the past decade. The comparison of NSW Labor with Howard is valid but it makes both guilty; it doesn’t get Kennealy and co. off the hook.
An insulation vendor with the name ‘Batt’ ? Hmmm… probably changed his name to that by deed poll. He lives in a little batt house and wears a pointy batt hat.
OzPol. iRONy!
A local batt bloke complaining about imports is NOT unbiased.
I was thinking the same thing about Mr Batt, JV. Perhaps I should rename myself Mr Train?
Speaking of bias, here is a peice on the rise of atheism in the SMH:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/atheisms-true-believers-gather-20100212-nxm5.html
It is by religeon reporter Jacqueline Maley. Where is the bias? If the atheists are right, Maley shoudl eb out of a job
Peter Hartcher has a thoughtful piece today on the necessity for strong leadership on CC from Rudd.
He provides a plausible reason for the leadership vacuum on the ETS so far – to encourage the focus on the Opposition’s divisions, which worked. But while the tactic has worked, the CC strategy has failed:
”Third, the Prime Minister failed to lead opinion, failed to marshal his arguments, failed to explain his policy, failed to carry the country. Rudd’s abdication of leadership on this is no oversight. He deliberately created a vacuum because his silence guaranteed media attention on the opposition. It was a tactical success. National media attention concentrated on the opposition’s internal troubles. But it was a strategic failure. With the chief proponent largely absent, naysayers and climate change denialists got lots of air time.
While Rudd was silent, the sceptics had a megaphone. The 68 per cent who had told the Lowy pollsters in 2006 that climate change was a “critical threat” shrank to 52 per cent last year. Rudd conceded publicly this week that he had failed to communicate his policy.”
Rudd must now ‘flick the switch’ to leadership. It is relatively easy because the people are already on side. As Hartcher says:
”Can Rudd afford to stake his government on climate change? He can’t afford not to. If he walks away from this fight, he will have no credibility on the big health reform he is planning or on any other reform.”
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/for-tough-reforms-rudd-must-crash-through-or-crash-20100212-nxej.html
Socrates
Do you sell trains? There’s a shop at Pymble I pass all the time called the ‘Train Trader’ -models of course. Is that you?
I like the atheists’ forum – especially the fact that it is a 2500 person sell-out. Encouraging given the rise of the fundies and the increasing crumbling of the separation between church and state (epitomised in Conroy’s behaviour).
I’m glad that expression ‘crash through or crash’ is back, and respectable, as in hartcher’s headline. There hasn’t been enough of that sort of politics since Gough’s demise. He crashed through so much, so magnificently.
And that wasn’t the reason he ‘crashed’ in the end either, lest any conservatives suggest it was. The reason for that was an oppposition that could not accept losing power, and a corrupt G-G.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/13/2818620.htm
Up until now, I thought Garrett would survive. But this issue isn’t going away, it’s just getting deeper. I don’t think he’ll survive anymore, and bloody Abbott will be able to claim his first scalp. Grrrrr….
Xenophon used it during the 2007 federal election campaign
JV
I play with larger trains. I am a transport planner and live & work in Adelaide
Xanthippe and I are attending the atheists convention too – glad we booked early
Yes, but that didn’t make it ‘respectable’ again.
Socrates
I see. Well, why are you copping-out and enjoying the easy life over there when you should be in Sydney where you are needed, kicking government heads and fixing the transport mess?
On the religion-atheism in public policy debate, I hadn’t thought of this. Obviously we don’t accept sharia law as a reason for avoiding our law but does this constitute a restriction on freedom of religion. I’m guessing it will end up in court in the US before we get to crunch time here.
http://www.freep.com/article/20100211/NEWS05/100211044/1318/Airport-body-scanners-violate-Islamic-law-Muslims-say
STRAWMAN ALERT! STRAWMAN ALERT!
Socrates #3557
I agree. Howard was (& Abbott is; but Malcolm Bligh T certainly isn’t) IMO a typical Sydneysider heir to Grouse, Patterson, MacArthur & Co’s Rum Corps and governments that went off the rails not long after Treverthick’s Catch me Who Can did. Melbourne had to create Underbelly; Sydney’s arrived before Madam Defarge’s knitting was stained with the first spatter from Madam Guillotine!
Others have argued cogently that a NSW government is a NSW government irrespective of time political colour, more so since the NSW ALP didn’t split in the 1950s and Santamaria’s mob infested both. Any incompetence and/or corruption card one side leads can be trumped by the other – though I’m told Askin is the highest trump! One can argue similarly about Qld governments’ coziness with miners, developers & rural wannabes since way back when – certainly before 1890 (McIlwraith) & and contrary behaviour (refusing to toe the White Oz line over Blackbirding & Japanese pearlers, one of Federation’s precipitating causes).
I well recall historian Russ Ward’s arguments re when the Oz ethos developed & why – aka The Australian legend (far better in the flesh!) So the Sydney (& NSW to a lesser extent) divide isn’t ALP v non-ALP; it’s the Rum Rebellion. The Hon Mr Turnbull’s family has kept the faith with “Bligh” is each male generation’s names … and, one could argue, lost out to the Rum Corps’ political heirs in most (But Qld has the real deal in Anna
)
None of which affects honesty, honest comparisons & the damage selective amnesia does one’s cause in the new highly interactive meeja – like this. Some of us Oldies have long & very good memories, esp if our fave hobbies were also our occupations! And now we have Google to check, fill in the blanks & provide the bots we missed first time round!
!
In general terms, when it comes to public policy v freedom of religion, I think the line has to be drawn when alleged freedom of religion endangers the population at large.
How far does the general public you bend over backwards to humour superstition and stupidity? Not very far, in my view. The cut-off should be at the point where others are affected by the practice of religion – “Believe what you like, as long as you don’t don’t adversely affect anyone else.”
This could also be interpreted as a commandment to wear a condom. Does the bible have the same rule? Both books are similar. I think they used pigs’ intestines in those days, which is more modest because that material is opaque.
jv – they succeeded then so they think the same tactics will succeed again and, of course, Murdoch is helping just as he did in ’75 – only problem is that the current GG is probably deaf to Murdoch, thank goodness.
The Liberals were voted out for broken promises, so I can only suggest Oz Pol is suggesting all you Labor voters out there in New South Welshmans state vote out the broken promises Labor government at the next state eletion.
THH
Actually that is not a strawman argument. It is a red herring though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
jv
I’m not sure that you are “naked” when seen in one of those body scanners either, although you can see their point.
You can?? Well no wonder they are upset.
Diogenes
One thing about those scanners – and your expert opinion would be useful here – they might get more support if they could be turned into a public health tool. If they are tweaked up a bit further, maybe travellers could be informed as they go through by security of any apparent tumours, aortic aneurysms, gall stones, etc. to follow up.
TTH #3572
WRONG AGAIN! There was NO “misrepresentation”; just the truth of howard’s record of broken promises
vp asked whether 13 out of 15 broken promises was a world record. I responded by listing TRUE examples of Howard’s infamous record of broken promises – his infamous “core” & “non core” promises,and providing the well-reported response ON TV AT A PRESSER of Liberal Brisbane Lord Mayor Campbell Newman when Howard AGAIN promised the Ipswich Motorway in 2007. ten I asked
Your “truth” is usually a Leninist/ Goebellian “Big Lie”. Pity so many of us keep picking it!
Try being honest for a change!
For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one other statement – being presumably easier to refute than the original position – must be true. If one refutes this weaker proposition, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a “straw man” argument.
jaundiced view #3574
I agree! Especially when an adherent of one religious policy (doctrine) attempts to impose his/her religious view on an entire population …
As in Tony Abbott’s attempt to legislate against forms of stem cell research; the only real hope of curing spinal cord injuries & a range of genetic diseases, and of repairing, in even more people, the damage caused by disease & traumata.
Not only was Abbott prepared to ban the forms mentioned in his Bill – condemning untold current & future Australians to physical & mental torture & agonising martyrdom (as well as treatment $$$ and income loss) – but to burden taxpayers with billions of health & palliative care $$$ it costs to treat spinal cord etc injuries, cancer, genetic & acquired degenerative diseases like spina bifada, cyctic fibrosis, MS, MND etc – costs stem-cell research may eliminate (in much the same way as smallpox, tetanus, polio, diphtheria, whooping cough, etc vaccines did) just to salve his own RC conscience & obey Vatican decrees
And this from a health minister who, as mentioned in QT (& elsewhere) this week, ripped $1billion out of the Health Care budget.
And, of course, there’s more where that came from: RU468, tightening divorce laws … whatever his religious masters want …
Muslims & Sharia law pose few problems to Australia compared to those posed by RW “Christians” of whatever sect who want to impose their values on the nation!
I guess the truth hurts!
While I don’t claim any special knowledge about the internal machinations of the NSW Liberal Party, there seems to be a generational civil war occurring which by all accounts is about to become even more feral.
One is reminded of the old adage about foxhunting being “the inedible being pursued by the unspeakable”.
The fact that all the alleged heavyweights of the Liberal Party are lining up to preserve the status quo is symptomatic of a Party more focussed on appealing to a narrow base of true believers rather than embrace the necessity of appealing to the broader community.
It should be remembered that the Liberal true believers have delivered diddly for years. In the absence of any track record of success, the old guard are destined for the knackery as new enthusiam and people desperate for some success enter the political fray. It’s interesting to watch Barry O’Farrell absent himself from the battleground at such an important moment. Almost being able to taste the from the Holy Grail of the Premiership is clearly turning him into a softy. Unfortunately, even being a small target is no protection when the opponent scores a direct hit.
The arrival of a more populist Premier in KK improves Labor’s chances and also will cause a review of the Libs, their personnel and what they have to offer. Those Libs and others that think they will slide into political power in NSW are sadly mistaken.
Miranda Devine’s piece this morning pleads the case for the old guard.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/small-targets-and-no-bold-vision-20100212-nxeg.html
Mark Davis writes an interesting piece today as well, regarding the huge problems abbott & co are going to have framing (and funding) their election *promises*.
I just love the bit about howard & costellos *poison pill* aka “charter of budget honesty reforms ” now coming back to bite the libs on the bum.
More broadly, the election looms and the coalition’s policy cupboard is very bare. Apart from Work Choices.
Its little wonder abbott doesn’t want to talk about where the funding is coming from to pay for his promised 6 months maturity leave.
Roll on election. Abbott is road kill.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/opposition-in-budget-minefield-20100212-nxmf.html
The argument about religeons being exempted from civil laws for various aspects of religeous practice is the whole reason why atheists are protesting against recent trends. They are bad arguments. There is no philosophical justification for it. Freedom of speech and religeon are fine as long as they harm nobody else. But they are not absolute. They becomes a problem either when you wish to force others to accept/practice the same views as you, or your beliefs/views impinge on other’sfreedoms. Neither aspect is compatible witha democratic society, religeous or not. If your religeon accepts slavery, that does not give you the legal or moral right to harm others in that manner in a democracy.
The test of reasonableness is potential harm to others, not whether some religeous group is accepted. Otherwise nutcases like NAMBLA need only rebadge themselves as a religeon and they coudl argue that preventing them abusing children infringed their religeous beliefs. Too bad, you are still subject ot civil law.
In this regard I find the debating tactics of religeous types often quite dishonest. They seem to conflate the right of atheists to make a certain moral choice as being no more valid than the “right” of religeous groups to lobby to prevent such choices. What rubbish. The two points are not the same. Atheists don’t try to force their views on the religeous (we just have a quite chuckle
). Likewise, religeous adherents don’t have the right to force their views on others. If I believe euthanasia (for example) to be moral, and it harms nobody else, then why should I not be free to do so? My belief does not force religeous types to do the same. Their belief that such actions are against “god’s law” does not oblige me to act according to their beliefs. I think the main reason many religeous types want to insist on others sharing their beliefs nad practices is that the more people who think the same, the more they can reassure themselves they are right, and avoid facing their own inner doubts.
Asking Diog for expert opinion is like asking Barnyard to tell the difference between trillions, billions and millions. What is there a zero or two or three between friends.
OzPol 3582 Snap!
Oh Thomas Paine, are you there?
LOL, you are scaring the bejesus out of all the readers and bludgers who may have an interest in the stock market.
No, seriously some of your comments (and there have been quite a few, including “If the markets don’t drop 2% today then they run by Joyce”) are about the most ridiculous, uninformed, uneducated and inexperienced that could be written.
European leaders will provide financial aid to Greece. I think you will find that European banks will buy Greek bonds to help the Greek government service its debt obligations.
“I would prefer monkeys doing my investing for me than these Wall street idiots”
What a dummy spit? All because the Dow did not fall as much as you would have liked overnight.
Quite sad really
OzPol
Mistaken identity. if you will confuse me with someone best it not be Peter Young or one of his type.
Zoomster – did that local member happen to be the one for Paterson?
Now if Warrick were to marry the entertainer Pink and she adopted his name would that make her Pink Batt?
OPT
Tres interesting comments on the rum rebellion mob.
I believe that the isolation and intermarrying between our betters lead families is one of the defining points of early Oz history.
The wheels behind the scenes are sometimes driven by said families against each other but ultimately with the same interests.
The next stage of our political maturity will be the rise of the post ww2 merchant class
I doubt we will see that in our lifetimes though.
Tom Hawkins
Do you think she’d be a good foil for him?
jv
The scanners only show surfaces and are too low resolution to be used for medical purposes.
How long before we see 3D surface images of famous people, models etc taken with the body scanners?
Socrates
You could argue that wearing a burka isn’t hurting anyone, and refusing to have your body scanned isn’t hurting anyone if you aren’t carrying any explosives.
It’s pretty amazing to me that in the 9 years since 9-11, there has never been a death which would have been prevented by a body scanner and internationally billions are being spent on them.
If I was a suicide bomber, I’d just make a cut on my abdomen and stick the stuff in there. You would just need to pull one end of the suture to get access.
What the hell does what John Howard did 3 years ago have to do with hundreds of broken promises and corruption by a State Labor government?
STRAWMAN ALERT!! STRAWMAN ALERT!!
3582
OPT
Yes OPT if Abbott had taken a more positive attitude to stem cell research it may have been possible for this bloke to represent us at the real Olympics and not the disabled version, after he fell with a set of collapsed trusses on Tony Abbotts watch in 2002.
If the kid is in fact at these winter paralympics i wish him well, though i am sure he would like to be in the real ones.
http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/Documents/Publications/GeneralWorkCoverInformation/Initiatives/shannon_dallas_editorial_young_workers_5668.pdf
This was part of a comment by ‘shocked and appalled’ to the article by Erik Jensen in last Tuesday’s SMH re Rudd being taken to the cleaners by the Q&A audience.
Looks like PBers are not the only ones concerned by the lack of good, factual reporting. Of course the journos explain it away as ‘opinion’ buts that’s a sorry excuse for inaccurate reporting of events
2002 should be barnyard noughts 2000.
In addition to Mark Davis’ costing #3585 (thanks Dave), PBers might like to consider the costs of just one disease that, thanks to The Women’s Revolt over Abbott’s stem cell research bill, might, within the the next couple of decades (hopefully sooner) be very significantly reduced by stem cell therapy.
The cost of the “hardware” (machines, buildings etc) of tumour (esp cancer) treatment in just one (St Andrews) of three sites in one regional centre, catering for c 500,000 people (c 1/42nd of the national population) – this, credit where it’s due, thanks to Ian McFarlane’s intervention during the last Howard gov): ” St Andrew’s has 2 Linear Accelerators (one new) costing over $2million each … the hospital raised $3.5 million with the remaining $8.6 coming from the Commonwealth Government”. http://www.pcq.org.au/docs/ND_jan08a.pdf
That’s $12+ million, with similar expenditure (at least) on each site And that’s not counting the cost of medical & ancillary staff, wards, food etc Other clinics in the T “centre” (a Princess Alexandria adjunct) are in St Vincents & the Base Hospital. Major equipment, like the LAs, is spread across the three to maximise effective (often round-the-clock) use of machines & operating theatres.
It’s also a good example of how Qld’s new specialist medical “centres” work: not just one hospital & one hospital board managing the local hospital; but multi-systemic across the private/public divide, involving University & hospital-based research & treatment centres linked by car/bus/chopper/plane + Internet to one another & (esp remote) local medical staff in the area a centre covers (Tmba covers from inland central Q to the NT + NW inland NSW) I assume other states have similar systems; but Qld’s the only one I know well enough to post on it.
Another example of how far out-of-date & from reality Abbott’s & the Coalition’s Local Hospital Board concept really is!
OPT
We moved away from local hospital boards in SA 6 years ago for the reasons you mention. It’s been a complete disaster and Labor is going back to them after the next election. These things go in cycles; if you wait long enough you get to see all the different models fail.
Liar, Liar, My Roofs on Fire!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/garretts-roofing-fire-admission/story-e6frg6n6-1225829880090
86 House Fires! Bejezus!
Hope all those working families were insured.
TheTruthHurts # 3596
From TTH who bores us all with his constant demand that Rudd treat boatpeople the way Howard did! Over & over & over & over! Hundreds of posts. 2001 Election results.
BTW: I notice you still can’t recognise a strawman argument when you see one – even though you were actually provided with a standard definition (& URL). Are you just dumb, or are you philosophically opposed to telling the truth?!
What John Howard did 3 years ago [or any time from March 1996 to 24 Nov 2007] provides a model for others to follow – 12 years of broken promises, lies, dog whistling, buck passing, blame-throwing, “I’m not responsible”, “I know nothing about” etc
Now, where TTH is concerned What the hell does what John Howard did 3 years ago is of the utmost importance & the very epitome of relevance on issues His Hypocrisy Personified applauds (like Boat people); but utterly irrelevant on issues that don’t get His Truthlessness’s seal of approval (like broken promises) when it’s an ALP government breaking them.
How could anyone possibly believe what you post?
Lay criminal charges against the businesses involved in the installation. In a capitalist economy, surely private business should be held accountable.
Unless you think we live in a centrally planned economy?
OZPolTragic
So the reason for NSW Labor’s disgraceful behaviour lies at the feet of John Howard?
Likewise Kevin Rudd has reason to lie and cheat like Howard because Howard set a bad example.
Absolute crap.
If anyone needed proof why we need to ditch the 2 big parties, and adopt another way of doing things, OZPT has provided it.
Geez, the welded ons are in a sad and sorry state. One could say – tragic.
TheTruthHurts #3603
.
Gawd, TTH, You got it wrong again!
The homeowner is not responsible for the restoration of any damage arising from his/her/their negligence. ITS THE CONTRACTOR who has “duty of care” responsibility both for employees and for any damage occurring in the course of the work
Ah ha. Now we see the reason for this line of attack.
And you talk about the welded ons. Have a look in the mirror my Green friend.
3602 TheTruthHurts – Nothing new in this report HurtsTheTruth. Same MO as the boat people issue it seems.
Gary Bruce – #3608
I simply find the argument that disgraceful behaviour by politicians is justified because Howard set a bad example is outrageous – and tragic.
If you disagree with me, and support the proposition advanced – so be it.
Peter Young
If I had actually stated AND I DID NOT that
the you might have an excuse for that Agincourt Award level misrepresentation; but as I did not, you either lack comprehension skills, or you deliberately try to mislead readers & malign writers.
So what is it, PY? Are you dumb or deceitful?
Absolute crap.
OZPolTRAGIC – #3611
Absolute crap.
Next please……..
Okay lets just pretend my house burns down thanks to one of Garretts dodgy trademan.
What do I need to do to recur costs and damages?
You make it sound like I just need to ring Kevvie up and he’ll get it sorted for me. Utter rubbish.
Laborax should practise what they preach and just ignore TTH’s posts.
I’m aware that I’ve used the “absolute crap” retort against you and that imitation is the greatest form of flattery but, unlike you, I now realise this is a useless retort. How just saying something like that makes it true is beyond me. Hence the reason I now refrain from using it. Maybe you would like to copy me in that regard too.
Next time there is an industrial accident why not go Gillard? She brought in the laws.
Georgian luger dies:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/georgian-luge-athlete-nodar-kumaritashvili-killed-in-winter-olypics-at-vancouver/story-e6frg6n6-1225829926337
I blame Peter Garrett.
Sue the insulation installer for bad building practices.
Could someone please tell who is paying these installers to install insulation? And who is responsible for the guidelines? I do not think for one minute that the government is responsible for anyones’ death. I think Abbotts’ attack has been plain stupid politics. He instead should be concentrating on the guidelines and the laws which have allowed shonks to operate in the first place.
The envrionmental schemes have been poorly managed and that is what should be discussed instead of industrial deaths..
Governments should introduce industrial manslaughter laws than these shonks would be made to be responsible for their actions.
So, if it is Peter Garrett’s fault that he didn’t warn the house owners, isn’t that equivalent to saying that there should be a policeman present whenever someone is about to cross the street to warm him that he should be careful not to get run over?
And there we have it.
The last thing you want to do is go through the shitstorm that is the Australian Legal system, especially for large damages like the loss of a house.
I guess if you have unlimited time, money and resources it might be worth it, but I think some of those punters would have had no choice but to cop it on the chin.
I asked in another stream for some substantiation of the NSW labor disgraceful behaviour and all i got back was party political rubbish. Just saying something over and over doesn’t make it true.
I continue to be disgusted by journalists, people and politicians using the deaths and for what is an absurd and unreasonable attack. If that is the best this group have against the government least I can be sure that the govt will be in place for long enough for an opposition with some ethical standards and genuine interest in the wellbeing of Australia to take the current rabble’s place.
#3622
Actually if you go through the “shitstorm” and win, you will probably get nuffin. The shonky operator is unlikely to have insurance, the company he operates is probably a straw company and he is probably personally about to declare himself bankrupt.
So those who don’t have insurance will get nuffin. For those that do, their insurance companies may pay-up (eventually, but they will try and defend even the indefensible, and invent “loopholes”) – but then the insurance companies will just jack up their premiums for all policy-holders. So all policy holders of the insurance company’s will end up paying for the shonky operators.
Don’t you just love the capitalist system, full endorsed and enlarged by Rudd Labor.
China’s stimulus gone slightly astray…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a6i2PSZD.Jr4&pos=11
Truthy when a conservative like yourself has to trash one of our democratic institutions, essential to the functioning of our democracy and society, something is wrong. Remember those institutions that you need to save from progressive enlightened change. I think we can assume there is a problem with your argument when you have to shoot yourself in the head to try and make it.
From the beginning the environmental programs have been rushed and this no doubt is the main problem. Very little organisation and very little as it looks scrutiny.
I will state again as i did earlier in the week i have had two installers come to my home for quotes, the first said i required no second quote and the rebate included
removal of insulation, in this instance the guidelines state you cannot get the rebate for both statements. The second quote said he could the insulation on top of my existing blow in which was not sufficent. I then got a third quote and guess what Brotherhood Green said i did not need insulation as the blow in was deep enough and sufficent.
I rang the hotline and asked the question how do you know that installers are not quoting for removal in the rebate as well, answer well we just have to trust these people.. So here we have people ripping off the taxpayer and quite possibly overbudgeting a project.
These enviornmental projects which are needed and i fully endorse them.. but they have been badly managed and run from day one.
And although the previous government committed much more heinous stuff and we never could find out about it – thus if anyone probably deserved to go to Jail it probably should be John Howard for sending us off to an illegal war in Iraq.
And the slimey Peter Reith for telling lie after lie about boat people and wharfies….
In the end though i think someone has to be responsible for these programs if not Garrett maybe his department head for designing programs which are a mess.
So Peter I think in your post 3624 you highlight brilliantly why no reasonable person would hold Garrett responsible, you are discussing and intervening cause so obvious, so heinous, so immoral and so obviously the cause of the problem that even the BCA couldn’t defend it as acceptable business plunder of decent society.
And how sad to see the Greens and Libs united in attacking the pillars of our society. They’ve done it with supporting global warming denialists, why the surprise to see them joining forces to attack law and order.
As usual, you say /type things for which you have not one shred of evidence ie You write lies! How very despicable of you!
“Welded on”? I’m not a member of any political party, because IMO no one party represents the gamut of my political views. I’ve stated more than once I’m usually a Reps/Senate split voter. And I give political credit (& blame) where it’s due
A few posts back, I lauded Ian MaFarlane (Lib: Groom) for what were (i heard from a couple of ALP MLA’s /former MLAs as well as two Nats) his sterling & persistent efforts to wring! funding out of then Health Minister Tony Abbott (Ian’s not one of his fans) for the creation of the Toowoomba Regional Hospital Centre, especially for the “cutting edge” linear accelerator (St A’s) which takes much of the hell & surrounding tissue damage out of cancer radiotherapy. I’ve also (many posts ago) Lauded Tom McViegh (Fed National MP & Fraser gov Minister) for the way he managed passage of the Anti-Discrimination Legisltion (?1978) and Tony Fitzgerald MLA Nat Lockyer for his excellent work in removing discrimination from the QLD PS Superannuation Act. And the list goes on in an area that has had ONE non-Coalition MLA/MP, and only for 12 of the almost 40 yrs I’ve lived here. Smart people learn to work with all local MPs, MLAs, councillors – and their opponents – for the betterment of their communities. That’s how democracies work – especially in rural areas & outer suburbs.
We live in what I hope still is (despite Howard, Abbott & Co’s and Shock Jocks like Alan Jones’ & RWDBs worst efforts) a tolerant, multicultural, multi-religious, multi-national, multi-political society. I’m also lucky enough to live in the same sort of family. And I spent much of my life in communities which depended on such tolerance to function.
When you can’t hold an St Patrick’s Day concert, Highland Ball, Chinese NY fireworks & Dragon effort, a school fete, or whatever without veryone attending one anothers’ events & contributing stuff, serving on stalls, bringing national dancers – including aboriginal dancers, prejudice is just plain stupid! Nor could Bush Fireies, ambos (until recently) hospital, schools, sports grounds etc raise the money to exist/ keep going unless NO racial, religious or any other sort of prejudice got in the way.
#3623
How much time do you have?
Lets just spread it out over the next year.
Let’s start with 11 major transport projects promises CANCELLED out of 13.
Next let’s move to the promise re the Spit Bridge. Well prior to the last election Labor had in it’s possession a report commissioned by it which said it was not feasible to do as it had promised. However, it maintained that promise during the 2007 election campaign. A few weeks after the election it announced it could not proceed with the Spit Bridge promise – because it had received a report that said it wasn’t feasible. Is that shonky and corrupt enough for you to get the idea?
Watch this space….more to come over the next 12 months.
The same thing you’d do if no rebate was being offered?
I guess if you have unlimited time, money and resources it might be worth it, but I think some of those punters would have had no choice but to cop it on the chin.
And if it is a member of your family..
So there would be no shonky operators in existence under a Greens Government? Or there’d be no capitalist system in place under a Greens Government?
Ahhh, Laborax debating in solely black and white terms, yet again, in attempts to stifle and shut down.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so tired and predictable.
ltep, i think giving the liberals are pushing this rubbish, we should start with their individual responsibility mantra, and basically if you engaged these contractors who were dodgy to do stuff with your house and they did a bad job, start the blame game with the idiot who engaged dodgy brothers in the first place.
Then perhaps look at consumer affairs in your local state to explain why the business is allowed to carry on, why the dodgy products are allowed on the market. Then perhaps look at OHS and ask why the dodgy contractors who you are engaging to play in your house …. it is bizzare.
We are still talking about the non issue of insulation installation? Gee Abbott’s distraction from the good economic news worked a treat.
bob, I’m just trying to understand PY’s last sentence.
I’m not a party supporter in general so please don’t stoop to personal attacks on me.
William
I point out bob’s defiance of your previous ruling by substituting ‘laborax’ for ‘hacks’.
When I referred to STFU as ‘the acronymn that dare not speak its name’ I was snipped five minutes later….which I took as harsh but fair.
A phonetical substitution of a banned term is surely even worse than a cutesy reference to a banned acronym.
Anyone who works i think whow works two hours in a fortnight is not counted as unemployed. Therefore what would be the unemployment rate if these people were counted. Then the economic statistics would not look so rosy.
And by the way hours worked actually decreased last month. So much for a glossy economic rainbow. Must be that the very rich are doing very well.
Jasmine, personally I’m not sure the Government are completely absolved from blame on this one. I suppose you need to remember that the insulation program was a measure in the stimulus package, which was meant to help steady employment by giving more jobs to installers. One of the possible consequences of this is always that there will be an increase in unskilled or undertrained labour. Would a possible compromise have been to state the rebate could not be used on foil insulation? Are other types of insulation more ‘safe’ to install? Would inserting more regulation into the scheme mean that it wouldn’t have the desired effect as a stimulus measure? The questions aren’t all easy to answer.
re: Shonky and Corrupt NSW Labor
Prior to the 2007 election, Unions were concerned about the possible privatisation of electricity in NSW. They wrote to Premier Iemma (remember him – he was supported by Right wing Labor – and was Premier- a few Premiers ago). He promptly replied – reassuring Unions that “there were no current plans” to privatise electricity. Within 2 months of winning the 2007 election NSW Labor set in train a course of events to privatise electricity.
A debate ensued. Leading the anti-privatisation forces was one John Robinson – who opposed privatisation on basic principles. his campaign was successful. He was held in high esteem in Union circles because of his stand.
A vacancy was created in the Upper House. John Robinson then got a seat on the red benches, and was promoted to Prisons Minister. He then set about privatising Silverwater and Cessnock jails. A debate ensued. He backed down in respect of Cessnock (probably because all the workers lived in the one electorate) but proceeded to privatise Silverwater (where the workers live in areas scattered all over Sydney).
Don’t these cowboys ever learn their lessons?
These guys have increased their exposure to a high risk area as a ‘bet’ that somebody will fix up the risk. How reckless is that?
A business owner would normally wait and see if the problem gets fixed before investing in something that has high risk attached. As would any normal person, especially when the level of risk is quite obvious.
I can only assume they are throwing more money into the area to promote it since they already have high exposure. Which would be an even worse business practice.
And they may well get caned for it because it is not at all certain that Greece will get bailed out now, considering their latest rapid deterioration of debt to GDP and parts of the German govt saying No to approving a bailout, which would block the govt.
They deserve to fail. Problem is they take others with them.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=avRDwjUxPD6g&pos=12
Zoomster you are not an admin so please don’t act like one. MYOB. Cheers.
Peter it is called false conscienceness. And people tell me many people go into politics to do things….
Is the Transport Minister responsible for all the deaths which occur on (say) the Pacific Highway? If not, why not?
That’s a silly comparison.
I think in terms of complexity you are right ltep. I’m not sure how you sheet how blame to either the environment department or Minister in any rational way. Some in the greens and some in labor do tend more towards what liberals normally call ‘nanny state’ type measures.
I’m not in a camp that tries to trash the programmes, which deliberately by design were ‘rushed’. I think the kind of error rate in the schools and the environment programs would be matched by almost all govt programs. Remember govt programs are delivered by public servants. Both sides have neglected the public service for decades it is surprising they can deliver anything.
I am aware of one of the projects of the stimulus package. In fact the PM kicked it off himself with a local govt not to far from me. My personal view is that it didn’t create a single job, because the relevant local government could barely put the staff to manage the contractors in place. They delayed other projects etc to make the ‘stimpac’ one happen.
I don’t think this is a failure part of the stimpac was to dump a tonne of these on the economy in order to slow the recession. And end of the day you get a park.
What I object to most strongly is the linking of deaths, with the Minister. It is really very disgusting in my view. I terms of a chain of causation there are a tonne of factors. Now if the liberals were consistently nanny state people and they applied that kind of logic to all parts of society, then they may have a case for arguing there was a failure to properly regulate and protect. The liberals aren’t nanny state people and they aren’t asking the Minister to resign because he didn’t put proper regulations in place (largely because most of them would have been IR and consumer affairs regulations) they are demanding he resign because he is responsible for deaths. They have no standing, no credibility and it is in my view even lower ethically than the Gretch affair, at least in that the libs were using a single person who is still alive, this time they are exploiting the deaths of a number of people. I don’t think politics can go much lower.
John Robertson is the biggest idiot in any parliament in Australia. He thinks it is wise for an Australian state government to own coal power stations. It doesn’t get any more economically and environmentally stupid than that.
Bob it is not a silly comparison the link between a transport minister and deaths on roads as ridiculous as it is, is a lot stronger and more direct than the absurdity you are arguing.
If you want to know how big a moron John Robertson is, just read Paul Keating’s free character reference:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/11/25/banshee-on-a-rampage-the-full-keating-text/
As partly mentioned the deaths scenario was a scare and some senationalism to take the headlines away from an economy which is supposedly to be doing well, which in my view is only just treading water.
I didn’t actually know that’s what he was getting at, but even without that knowledge I had resolved to tell him to stop doing it as soon as I’d finished cleaning my room. I also ask Bob, more in hope than expectation, to desist from repetitive name-calling more generally.
Why? Offer some facts or logic instead please.
Here we go again lets privatise electricity and sell an asset for short term gain.
If you think governments should own coal power stations, then there is no hope for you
I ask the question again. Is the Transport Minister responsible for all the deaths which occur on (say) the Pacific Highway? If not, why not?
Let’s take it a step further:
Does the government provide funding for both services? Yes.
Does the government lay down safety guidelines for both services? Yes.
Is there policing of both services? Yes.
Does the delivery of both services involve private industry? Yes.
Help me out here guys (inc. Bob). What’s the difference?
Give me some reasons why we should privatise electricity then?
And do so without the personal connatations thrown in thankyou.
What is more investment from the private sector argument again?
Quantum it is simple the difference one doesn’t serve their base political purpose and the other does.
With transport issues as you describe would impact both sides of politics at all levels. I know at local government level ratepayers are always telling councillors they will be culpable for deaths if they don’t do ‘x’ to the road this week. Sometimes the ratepayers are even right and deaths do occur. Still not to many sane rational people ask them to resign.
Because as soon as an ETS of some sort is legislated, coal power stations will be rapidly depreciating assets.
I’m not a person who thinks it is a government’s job to throw tax payer’s money away.
It would be far better for governments to sell the coal power stations NOW while they still have SOME decent value, and use that money for other things such as schools or hospitals, or perhaps funding tax breaks for clean energy projects.
If the Transport Minister ignored repeated warnings that there would be a lot of fatalities because a bridge was about to fall and ignored it, they would be responsible when the bridge collapsed.
We seem to have a veritable army of strawmen arguments about this. Just because a minister isn’t responsible for all deaths or bad outcomes, it doesn’t follow that they are responsible for no deaths or bad outcomes.
Quantum @ # 3605
Lay criminal charges against the businesses involved in the installation. In a capitalist economy, surely private business should be held accountable.
Unless you think we live in a centrally planned economy?
Another ray of commonsense and relevance to this issue.
To quote Tony Abbott – “But we live with risk. That is part of ordinary life.”
The point is that the ‘warnings’ Garrett received were that things could go wrong if people did dodgey things. Well, yes. It’s like warning the Transport Minister that people can die if they drive like dickheads.
What do you do, ban people driving? I refer you to the Abbott quote.
re: SHONKY NSW LABOR
Donations have been a major problem for Labor. Sure nothing has been proved, however, the donations are there on the public record and decisions have been made to personally benefit the donors. It leaves many questions unanswered. Some Labor MP’s have been smart enough to see an uncanny repeated coincidence of donations/decisions. However, whilst recognising this connection, have sought to argue that the donations were not bribes – but merely rewards for good decision making.
We can spend the next 12 months giving examples of these coincidences, but the first coincidence I suggest you examine is the decision to hold a loud noisy car race at Homebush.
The ABC’s Quentin Dempster did a Stateline program examining the coincidence, A Question of Probity in October 2008.
Quantum
If you put in place a system which is hazardous, you have to take some responsibility for it, especially if you have been repeatedly told it is hazardous and should be improved.
I love your example Diogenes, would you have the minister for main roads who was responsible for the bridge go to? Would you have planning and infrastructure who’d built the bridge?
And a bridge falling down isn’t in the same category as ‘maybe private shonky operators in a contract with private residents, using labor under a private labor agreement will do shonky things,’ even those warnings that came from non interested parties, is not nearly the same as ‘bridge about to fall.’ I have straw-girl and I’ll eat straw girl too.
Ministers get tonnes of things all the time and have to take a balanced decision.
Again I agree Diogenes, if you put in a system that is hazardous, like a bridge, take responsibility for it. The Minister didn’t put the whole roof installation business system in place. He just funded private individuals in the market.
In principle I agree. However, it is clear that the Government laid down additional guidelines (supplementary to those that already existed) and methods of auditing compliance.
If the argument is that fundamentally foil insulation is unsound and should not be used, why didn’t Howard ban it while he was in?
If the argument is (as I put forward) that private industry wilfully and neglectfully did not follow guidelines laid down by the Government, they must needs be held accountable. It would be a tremendous corruption of Westminster tradition to hold a minister accountable for private industry wilfully and neglectfully doing the wrong thing.
If we lived in a centrally planned economy where employees of the State were performing the work, you may have a point. But as far as I am aware that is not the situation.
And as a further point, show me any industry and I will show you someone who has a problem with the standards that exist. Just because a wheel squeaks doesn’t mean it needs grease – sometimes they are just pushing their own barrow.
I am yet to see any evidence that the combination of state guidelines + additional Federal standards were inadequate and caused problems. If you have this evidence please present it.
I’m as much a nanny state person as anyone. Lets blame the Minister. But first lets absolutely ban smoking, drinking, driving in any circumstances at above 40 km/h. Lets ban the whole fast food industry completely now. Lets remove anything that isn’t purely educational and wholesome (at the whim of the minister of the day) from television or radio. Clearly we would be banning the olympic games too much too dangerous.
Have we got to the minister yet?
Mining we would need to ban mining, how often do unions say mining companies do dangerous things, and sometimes miners die, construction we will need to ban construction, same argument. …..
I’m not saying Garrett is fully responsible (the contractors are primarily responsible IMO) and I’m certainly not saying he should resign. I’m saying that he was repeatedly told there were problems with his insulation scheme and it looks like the people who told him were proven right and there has been a bad outcome which could have been prevented.
Okay you make a good point, but where are the alternative sources of power, if people are going to shift their requirements to other sources where are they?
The way i read the ETS compensation will cover extra cost for householders so their concerns will be nullified and the power companies will be well compensated as well. I see your point about asset depreciation though… But isn’t the government helping them out with carbon capture and storage money- to the tune of a few billion…Why do so if they do not consider coal to be important in the future? So i believe that the coal industry will be less important seems like a bit of excuse to privatise.
However i would like to see the power companies investing in alternatives and in Victoria i do not see it occurring at present…
Instead the Latrobe Valley in Victoria, has due to privatisation employment dropped from 10,000 to 2,500 and towns populations have struggled to increase in fact some have decreased as a result. Only of late some places are beginning to grow again.
marky mark @ 3640
That’s why the number of people who identify themselves as underemployed is also reported.
bob, there’s no use asking you nicely – you know what you’re doing and you know it’s to get around William’s ruling. I’m assuming William’s out of the office at the moment – he was very quickly on to the STFU stuff!!
If it wasn’t for the insulation beat up, Barnaby Joyce would’ve lost his portfolio this week. And if Abbott does that, my guess is that Joyce will just go back to not having a portfolio so that he can carp from the sidelines.
Please elaborate on this point – are you asserting that there are gaps in the installation standards? If so, please provide the detail on which standards were inadequate.
Or are you asserting that Garrett was told that some people were dodgey? In which case, would a ‘reasonable’ person stop the whole program because some people may break the law? I refer you once more to Abbott’s quote – We live with risk every day.
I am hammering this point because it is quite important. I have seen no evidence that, if followed properly, the installation standards were inadequate in any way.
Diog @ 3671
The evidence appears to be that, when Garrett was alerted of a problem, he firstly investigated it (as one should) and then took the appropriate action.
As he consistently says, right from the start everything to do with the program was in accordance with Australian standards. If these standards were inadequate, then one would have expected pressure to deal with this a long time ago.
As always, no one can fix problems unless they are aware they exist (which is why I always encourage people to complain about virtually anything that bugs them!)
My apologies diogs I’ll agree with you completely. In terms of standards, integrity etc I want a labor minister to do much much better. If this were part of consistent efforts to do so applied by the opposition and the media to all governments all the time, I’d just be quite. I don’t think it is. I think it is the exploitation of deaths for nasty political purposes quite unconnected to any genuine concern for anyone but them. I think it is very inconsistent for the opposition and the media to even bring it up outside of normal poking and prodding in senate estimates, and other such committees around the country.
I thought the Governments *Fair Work Australia* bill(s) had been passed throught both houses? Apartly not :
Wal King from Leighton’s was interviewed on a range of issues in Business Spectator.
To my knowledge the following bills are currently blocked in the senate :
- I.R as above.
- CPRS
- Telstra (Break-up Legislation)
So how many other bills are currently blocked ?
Q
He was told dodgy people who weren’t trained properly were installing in an unsafe way and that it could have serious consequences.
*quite quiet perhaps
Well, wouldn’t it be good if the government could use the value of the coal power stations to invest in PV, solar thermal, wind et al?
That money goes to consumers by adjusting Centerlink payments and the income tax scales, it doesn’t go directly to coal power companies.
Providing money for research is appropriate, that doesn’t count as an argument for owning coal power stations though.
[However i would like to see the power companies investing in alternatives and in Victoria i do not see it occurring at present…
Not surprising because there’s no carbon price (yet).
Peter Young #3624
FFS why hire shonks? Why not act like the intelligent adult one’s supposed to be and check the contractor out?
1. In English & Oz law/ politics, the adage is caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) and has been for centuries before governments & taxpayers started throwing money at education. Anyone who hires a tradie – or any service provider at all – without backgroung checks is a bloody idiot.
2. It’s not as if any commercial TV viewer or tabloid reader can claim not to know there are any number of shonks ripping off little old ladies, single parents, pensioners and so on: ACA, TDT & Murdoch tabloids thrive on shonks!
3. Most states (eg Q) have registration authorities one should contact about work carried out on one’s home! One lousy phonecall to them will reveal whether the contractor is licenced, has a Gold Card or whatever. Every town/city has specialist firms which do whatever re household construction, renovation etc. If they can’t fit you in, ask them to recommend someone & they usually do. Insulation contractors mightn’t need registration in some states; but “alfoil” insulation’s been around for 40+ years and, in most cases, builders handle it – & they’re registered! Q’s No Gold Card, no work is good advice. (And in all phonebooks!)
4. Registration authorities will only recommend tradies with insurance coverage – in Q, the authority must cover the work of any “Gold Card” member who goes bankrupt, or whose insurance has lapsed etc
5. Most communities / churches have centres OAPs, carers, single parents etc can ring re such matters. For anyone on any pension/ payment, Centrelink has brochures, can (and did) offer advice. And all the info we got had telephone numbers for queries – and very helpful they were too (we used them)!
I’d suggest that every person who’s had a problem – from the kid without TU coverage to any whose house burnt down – actually knows the above. Some will have hired installers with normal employer/ authority insurance. Those who didn’t check out the Installer have only themselves to blame.
Some are cheapskates, who blame others if anything goes wrong. Some never seek/ heed advice. Some are smartar#es, boasting about how smart they are for saving cash’ always the first to go to the media. Some are just dumb. Some never take out insurance of any kind, even if it’s simply “doing their homework” re something. All blame someone else (usually government) & expect taxpayers to foot the bill.
I can’t see why taxpayers & the government should be responsible for adults’ stupid decisions.
J
I completely agree. As has been said, Ministers (and all administrators) are always managing risk. They do have to take some responsibility when things go wrong but they make hundreds of risk based decisions every day.
It’s just like my job as a doctor. I have to make decisions every day which can have bad consequences and I don’t get them right all the time and I have to take responsibility for them when it goes pear shaped. But as long as you recognise your mistake and have acted in a reasonable manner, you don’t get struck off. Garrett is just like a doctor who made a bad decision and just needs to fix it as best as he can and move on.
re : SHONKY NSW LABOR
Of course there are, what look to any objective observer like deals, the arrangements NSW Labor was prepared to go to accommodate the demands of the Shooters Party. Former Premier, Nathan Rees described these as stretching to the limits Labor principles.
The reason NSW Labor was prepared to stretch its principles to the limits – was hardly for a noble cause. It was to ensure votes to enable the sell-off of NSW electricity assets.
A basic summary is contained in a Stateline segment aired in July 2008, Gun Politics .
Thankfully, the arrangementsmay have come unstuck, as reported by Stateline in June 2009 Unlikely Allies .
However, with Keneally now installed in the Premier’s office, in place of Rees,at the behest of Obeid and Tripodi – one has little confidence that things will not revert to the pre-Rees days.
Indeed, for a plastic surgeon, and particularly with chest enhancements. A different shape would be expected by the consumer, I assume. The grapefruit comes to mind, or even the rockmelon for larger jobs; but not the pear – or the durian for that matter.
jv
Banana shaped is even worse.
Actually Shows why not use the money from the profits earned each year from electricity to start building solar plants, if we did that i would not be so sceptical of your view. You see i know that you are ideological believer in free market economics and you know i am not. Privatisation is part of your neo liberal believe that the government should own public utilities or run many things..
Privatisation would decimate jobs and unions. It is not about efficency or more money for the state and to argue that the money from the asset sales could be used for alternatives is okay a good one if the actually government was considering it but what i heard they wanted to use it for public transport, social housing and health. Sorry not buying this argument and not buying the argument about the poor going elsewhere and rich doing the same in a hurry…
One only has to look at the sceptics who do not believe in Climate Change tend to be the same people who believe in neo- liberalism.
In an article written in 2005 by Sharon Beder she says this about privatisation-
Electricity privatisation and deregulation in Australia have been encouraged, facilitated and implemented by governments and state agencies. The costs of the ‘reforms’ have been borne by the electricity sector workforce, which has been decimated, and by the rural and residential consumers, who have borne the brunt of the resultant electricity prices rises. An essential public service has been transferred to private control in two states, and other states have electricity prices determined by an electricity market that is subject to price manipulation by profit-oriented electricity suppliers. Regulatory structures set up to ensure the smooth running of the market have failed to prevent this price manipulation or ensure reliability of supply. The winners have been those corporations able to buy up the former state-owned industries and impose higher prices on consumers. Electricity privatisation has thus entailed an interventionist state, instituting new forms of governance and working aggressively to secure freedoms for capital. Contrary to the pronouncements of neo-liberals themselves, neo-liberalism has not heralded a ‘withering away of the state’.
Finally Paul Keating was one of the worst treasurers this country has ever had.
It’s a pity he put too much trust in the RBA and followed their advice in 86-87 and left interest rates low when they all failed to see beyond their noses.
Re phrase that to mean neo-liberal belief that governments should not own or run things…
It is a pity they introduced negative gearing and deregulated the financial system to the extent they did.
Now we people unable to buy homes and spending a lifetime trying to pay a mortgage. Many or most of these people are working class battlers.
It was also his government that allowed casual work to get a hold in the economy and please do not talk to me about the privatisations Labor did.
Still do not understand how under a Labor Government Union Membership levels drop significantly.
Most people who are arguing the Garret is somehow responsible for those deaths are contending that the Government is in the role of a party to the contract to install insulation in people’s homes.
This is incorrect. The contract was between the homeowner and the installer.
The Government is in the role of a fiancer or bank.
If you argue that the Government is responsible then you must also argue that the fiancer or lender in respect of any project is responsible for any misadventures on any project. In its simplest terms this means that if you borrow money from the bank to buy a car and then you are in an accident and someone is killed than the Bank from who you borrowed the money is culpable because of you bad driving.
This is clearly ridiculous as it would make us all in some way culpable for any interaction with other parties no matter how tenuous.
In this case Garret has moved way beyond his primary responsibilities in that where there were no standards or training courses he had them developed and implemented.
This task was made harder for a number of reasons. One being was that there were no previous standards or training courses and that there was no indication from the previous history of the industry areas of concern. Secondly there was the need to involve stakeholder’s from each State (this being a states issue) as well as the industry and unions.
Considering these circumstances I think that he did well to get something out in the time he did.
Diogenes
Ah, that takes me back … to Papua. Nothing a bit of silicone can’t fix, of course, eh?:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gdroq_aO8Zw/SErGo9rQqhI/AAAAAAAAAnA/uJcktcvQxjM/s1600-h/Pig-breastfeeding2.jpg
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones!
Workplace death & injury:
2003 (Fed Minister, T Abbott)
Shows Sharon Beder makes these points as well-
An emissions trading scheme in Australia may see the price of electricity and manufactured goods go up but that is no guarantee that the market will invest in carbon-free alternatives. This is especially the case given that many polluters will get permits for free and others can pass on the extra cost to consumers, some of whom will be compensated by the government for the higher costs. Those not compensated are high income earners, able to afford the higher costs without bothering to change their consumption habits.
Another reason that companies are unlikely to invest in production changes and renewable energy is that the Rudd emissions trading scheme allows companies to buy unlimited offsets from within Australia and overseas. Companies will therefore be able to offset any emissions they do not have permits for, by paying for carbon reductions elsewhere. Offset projects favour cheap and uncertain methods of reducing carbon emissions, such as funding tree plantations, rather than renewable energy projects. This is because renewable energy is more expensive for investors, even though it offers more benefits to the local community and the nation.[22]
Renewable energy will not be encouraged by emissions trading either. Currently electricity generators offer quantities of electricity into the National Electricity Market at a particular price for each time period the next day. If they have to pay for emission permits, their offer price will presumably be higher. The system operator choses the cheapest electricity for supplying the predicted demand for the next day. It will, therefore, only chose electricity generated by renewable energy if it is cheaper or if there isn’t enough other electricity available. For any significant switch to renewable energy, carbon credits have to be expensive enough to make coal and gas-based electricity more expensive than renewable energy. Given the lobbying on the part of industry and the resulting low cap, compensation to coal-powered generators, and availability of offsets, this is unlikely to happen.
And finally this sums it up fairly well,,
It is a pity that the federal government has wasted its stimulus package on shopping vouchers rather than investing in renewable energy so as to set the nation up for the future and provide hundreds of thousands of jobs at the same time.[23] Although private companies have invested in a few token renewable energy plants, only governments, which don’t require high short-term returns on their investments, can make the concerted effort to invest in the sort of technologies necessary to prevent further global warming.
Citation: Sharon Beder, ‘Electricity, generation, climate change and privatisation’, Australian Options no. 57, Winter 2009, pp. 18-20.
Sorry Willam i will not do this again…
re: DISGRACEFUL NSW LABOR
Then there is the disgraceful way in which NSW Labor treats people in a vindictive way, sometimes for political gain, at other times just out of spite. The other side of this vindictive coin, is the patronage it bestows on some people. As for the patronage side of the coin, we can go through some illuminating examples over the next 12 months…but for now here is an example of vindictive and spiteful behaviour.
Extreme Dissatisfaction .
This is just a ridiculous comment, so it isn’t worth responding to any more of your posts.
Given all the posts about worker OHS I thought a reminder about Ark Tribe was in order.
Ark Tribe is a construction worker who is due to appear before the Adelaide Magistrate Court for a three day trial on 15,16 and 18 June 2010. It will be his fifth appearance before the court and he faces up to 6 months imprisonment for allegedly failing to attend a compulsory interrogation by the ABCC in 2008. He is defending his right to remain silent following a workplace safety meeting.
He was working on the Flinders University site in Adelaide where conditions were so bad that workers drew up a petition calling for safety improvements, on a handtowel. It took an intervention by the union and the state government safety regulator to get the most pressing problems fixed.
Subsequently, workers from the site were called before the ABCC. The penalties for those who don’t cooperate with ABCC investigations are – fines of up to $22,000 for things like stopping work to make sure workers are safe and jail for up to 6 months if you don’t answer their questions.
The ABCC apparently did not care about the OHS&W issues facing the workers on this site and also did not investigate why John Hindmarsh locked out all the workers from the site on the Saturday following a safety meeting on the Friday.
The ABCC has not brought any charges against the employer for putting the lives of building workers at risk.
Which Party is still supporting the ABCC? – The Labor Party.
Abbott has set up a “border protection committee” to try and figure out a boat policy. So I guess next week we will be back to boats and everyone will forget about batts?
Truthy did you get a gig on Tone’s committee?
Peter Costello was the worst because he did nothing. Then came Billy McMahon and John Howard, whilst the rest tried to do things for the good of the nation.
Keating meantime- as mentioned betrayed the working class. Other than Medicare and Superannuation not much else resulted for the good of the working class..
I do not know how decreases in the highest tax scales for the rich from 60 cents in the dollar to 49 helped the working class and this is what Keating did.
Best Treasurer by a mile was Ben Chifley because he actually believed in where he came from. Did not betray his roots.
And as usual most neo liberals tend to get personal when people do not agree with them. I say this everyone is entitled to their opinion and i respect them for it.
Would not get be able to construct ideas without everyone have differing views. It is that only some get so enraged with others when they read things they don’t like. Pity about that.
If it was not for the swill house – the ABCC would have ceased to exist two weeks ago, becoming a division of “Fair Work Australia”.
Good one Hunt, lets get in a dig about deadly CHINESE batts. This is assuming the levels of high farce. Next Barnyard will want to know how much of the money we borrowed from China was used to pay the Chinese for these deadly toxic CHINESE batts?
Hmm. I haven’t seen any evidence of “potentially deadly Chinese batts”. Can Hunt produce this evidence?
marky marky #3690
As have “working class battlers” for all of the last century and more! And at times when only one person worked (usually the male), one had to have at least 10% deposit (a block of land paid off + 10% dep preferred) and, from 1972 (MacMahon’s last year as PM – interest rates topped 6% for the first time) to early this century, one paid higher rates that 2008′s peak – from c1980 in double digits, irrespective of the party in power. Moreover, taxes were much higher as a % of gross salary.
Sure housing “affordability” fluctuates with demand + a range of “In” conditions; but … “Affordable” 50s & 60s “workers’ cottages” were small (12 squares) with 2-3 bedrooms (in pre-Pill days, often for 6 or more kids) no garage, in outer suburbia with dirt roads, no sewers & poor public transport. And yes, it did take a lifetime to pay them off. Remember also that many were made homeless bythe Depression, and there was no building during the war & for several years after.
Remember that those you think “had it good” finished most of their homes interiors DIY. One did one’s own painting, concreting, cupboard building, lino-/carpeting, curtain making, grass sowing & sooking (with hand hold hoses) mowing (push, then Victor), as one expected to grow most of one’s own fruit & vegies. Then, as now, we “traded up”, starting in what was little more than a shack. And long working hours as an excuse for not DIYing doesn’t cut the mustard with me. Overtime, infrequent transport services outside peak hours, express services meant 7.00 am – 700pm was common for a normal 8 hr working day – and many people added post-work classes in Evening school, techc (TAFE) business college, uni. (3 nights a week, my train home left Central at 10.25 pm: the bus from St Lucia never made the 9.25)
Besides today’s “Working class battlers” have (at least since early 1980s) had “adult” access to self-ed through TAFE, universities (internal, evening & external etc courses) that even some Baby Boomers could only dream of. I spent my last working decade turning “left school at 14/15″ “battlers” into graduates & post graduates – watching “working class battlers” achieve their potential as middle-aged students is a wonderfully fulfilling & rewarding job (made up for low pay)!
BTW: I’m from a large “battler” family wiped out in the Depression, financially independent since the end of yr 10 (as was OH) who studied mainly as an external in the full-fees upfront era. Our home’s interior & several renovations are DIY. We repair things. We chose a regional area because land, housing & living were cheap – they still are – in a super area where land & houses were almost impossible to sell (nearby extractive industry, since closed).
Lower your consumer expectations and raise your productivity ones! Move to the country – plenty of jobs & much cheaper to rent/buy outside, and ed is usually good (as MySchool showed). As mining picks up again, there’ll be more. Get TAFE/ workplace training qual’s. They’ll let you RPL to good regional external-studies universities. Get crafty & sell what you produce – there’s a huge market for homemade F & V, jams, pickles, cakes, soaps, toys etc
All the tools you need are provided. Just stop whinging, get the finger out and start achieving your (positive) potential. Think what our disabled athletes achieve. Stop blaming someone else for your problems!
I find it interesting that no matter how many stories concerning Garrett the ABC website creates either as a headline item or a ‘Top Story’ not one of them ever makes it to the ‘Most Popular’ list. Could it be that people just aren’t that interested?
Pegasus @ # 3697
Which Party is still supporting the ABCC? – The Labor Party.
Just a slight case of distortion with your misleading statement.
Liberals Deny Basic Rights to Construction Workers
The Liberal Party’s disallowance of the Government’s Direction to the Australian Building and Construction Commission in the Senate today shows that Work Choices is alive and well in the hearts of Opposition members.
By failing to support the Government’s Direction that would enhance procedural fairness for workers, the Opposition has decided that no rules, safeguards or guidelines should apply in the ABCC’s application of coercive powers.
One of the directions that the Liberals voted against today was the right to have a lawyer with you when fronting the ABCC. Clearly, the Liberal Party think that the right to a lawyer is going too far.
The extremism of the Party of Work Choices should not be surprising to the Australian people.
Any informed and unbiased reading of the Direction would show that the Deputy Prime Minister is simply reinforcing measures and guidelines already in place. It is seeking to ensure that the ABCC consults with a presidential member of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal when using the coercive powers.
What the Minister is doing here is reminding the ABC Commissioner to comply with the ABCC’s own Guidelines in relation to the use of coercive powers.
The Direction ensured that existing rules, guidelines and standards are followed by all parties – fairly and without bias or prejudice.
The ABC Commissioner’s activities, investigations, powers or responsibilities are not constrained by this Direction.
The Liberal Party has shown today that it still has not accepted the decision of the Australian people in the 2007 election.
http://www.deewr.gov.au/Ministers/Arbib/Media/Releases/Pages/Article_090625_161735.aspx
and
Thu, 3rd December 2009
Coalition saves ABCC
Mr Michael Keenan MP
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations (to 8 December 2009)
The Coalition has saved the ABCC from Labor’s scrap heap, despite Labor’s commitment to replace the independent construction watchdog with a toothless tiger.
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations Michael Keenan said the Government failed to include the legislation that would erase the ABCC in the legislative agenda for 2009, effectively delaying it until next year.
“The Coalition’s efforts to preserve the ABCC, and the protection it provides for workers in the building and construction industry, has forced a back down from Labor, and has kept the tough cop on the beat in Australia’s workplaces.
“We’ve already heard evidence from industry, employers and a report tabled in the Senate that have all reinforced the ABCC’s importance in keeping at bay the violence and intimidation that crippled the industry in the early 80’s and 90’s.
Mr Keenan said that while the ABCC appeared safe for now, the Coalition would continue to fight to preserve the independent watchdog in the future.
“This is only a temporary reprieve until Labor drags this legislation back before the Senate next year; however it is a victory for law and order in the construction sector and recognition of the importance of the role of the ABCC.
“This is about law and order, it’s about jobs, and it’s about productivity,” Mr Keenan said.
http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4260
I think most people can see the absurdity in holding Garrett responsible for the deaths.
If Abbott really thought this why did he not try and censure Garrett? He tried to censure Rudd.
RU
Maybe tone wil unvail his chinese batty boats policy
Maybe even a shadow ministry for batty chinese boaties?
Former WA Union Secretary and ALP Upper House Member Jlock Ferguson died of a massive heart attack aged 64.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/6798904/jock-ferguson-dies-of-massive-heart-attack/
RIP – Jock.
I took a chance and read Laurie Oakes this morning. Apart from continuing the myths of recent times re Rudd he made some very good points about Abbott and the Libs. Still worth a read.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/spin-king-rudd-has-us-baffled/story-e6frfifo-1225829855009
I see Poss is involved in a spot of bother with a curretny music “star”
http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=10334_Taylor_Swift_Plays_Possum_With_Government_Agency
Norti Marsupial
Business is now beating a path to the Liberals’ door apparently.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/liberal-party-get-election-funds-boost/story-e6frf7l6-1225829865634
It’s interesting looking at the Herald Sun – all the positive stories for the Libs and the negative ones for the government. The campaign is really on. Pity it will end badly for them.
GB do you really think so?
It was a fluff piece, saying nothing, repeating what others have said. Sad really.
Er since when Steve Lewis?
I really think the fibs have gone all guns blazing.and in the process primed their operatives in the MSM
Someone could think that they were intentionally leaked false plans for an early election in late march
Those pesky public servants,who are the libs to trust these days
ru, I didn’t mean all of it was worth reading but Oakes makes this one good point.
His comments re Joyce were spot on too.
Funnily enough said operatives have proven there quals as brain dead drones by collectively spouting WORD FOR WORD the liberal party talking sheets.
Oakes and Grattan virtually wrote the same article a couple of days apart. They used to be the pre-eminent political journalists in this country, now they write fluff pieces more suited to the Womens Weekly.
Its really, really sad.
Gus, I think the MSM (especially News Ltd) sees itself as the real opposition (just as Fox News and other parts of the Murdoch empire sees itself in the U.S.).
ozpolitics- with respect but i own my own home and did so without negative gearing, i actually care about all those people who now struggle to pay a mortgage and must work long hours to live and thats’ what they have to do to live- move to the country to live a more comfortable lifestyle than sorry to say this but that is just how out of touch you are.
Scarpat
I agree totally,this latest combined operation is unusual in both its ferocity and orchestration
The fibwells and their lapdogs of the press have really overstepped the mark.
Thankfully labor has been shown the go to and the not go to reptiles
Come the real elction this intelligence is worth its weight in gold
Actually meant to say ozpol tragic- seems like he has swallowed the neo liberal mantra and the media advertising that everyone can make it in this world. Sorry but the world is not that superficial and productivity what does that mean again especially in a work context it means, more work per individual and more output, otherwords longer hours and fewer workers.
Actually ozpoltragic may be a female so seems like he or she has swallowed the neo liberal line,
in addition to that now that i own my home i do not wish to accumulate greater wealth, the world should be about rattling on here and talking rubbish which many of you think i do and helping others.
But many people are doing exactly that. Most peoples lives exist between their home, the shops and school. If they can do it cheaper in a regional area they would have rocks in their heads not to do it.
Garrett got caned on Ch 10 News. They claimed he had received 17 separate warnings about the safety of the scheme. The professional insulator installers want the scheme suspended until the mess is sorted out.
What mess? Who are these professionals?
Yep that is the solution to solving our problems,move elsewhere you poor people because us city folk do not want you.
People move outside the city must catch a train, spend long hours travelling on it, thats if good public transport exists, live in areas which have
substandard social infrastructure and facitlites and in areas which lack adequate physical infrastructure as well.
The country lifestyle may be the way to go if you like the environment and fresh air and have small children but from a sustainablity viewpoint
it should not be encouraged. But here we have people suggesting it as a cop out to our housing affordability ills of which governments State and Federal are doing
nothing about.
The mess that the fibwells have got themselves into,one presumes
It is a bloody mess, the guidelines are a pathetic joke.
Hmmm. What mess.
Four dead people. 84 fires. The Electricians Association (or whatever they’re called) saying they estimate there are 1000 “live” houses.
That’s a mess.
Dio
recheck that talking point memo again.
Your figures and association are WronG
The Stump has a page up for discussion on this topic and plays it as a joke which where it belongs.
Too easy for Abbott and co to side track the left. Throw one of these types of bones, add a few right wing trolls to keep the topic up and running (you know who you are) and there you have it…..like pigs dogs never being able to let go of endlessly going in circles over something that should have been laughed off as obviously ridiculous.
Meanwhile there is the economy and Joyce’s awful incompetence and Abbott’s pretty bad performance in Parliament too that gets kept out of the sunlight.
Now I expect the right wing troll to answer this in such a way as to keep this topic endlessly running. But this is my last bit of wasted breath on it.
As i said earlier today on this site, either Peter Garrett should resign or the head of the department handling this should either be moved to another area, demoted or sacked. It is not only the insulation program the other day it was the Green Loans Scheme, overbudgeted and with to many assessors.
If you ignore the experts and you get it wrong, you are going to cop some pain.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/garrett-knew-of-insulation-death-risk-for-months-20100213-ny4b.html
Yesterday Jon Stewart did a very funny take on the GOP childish behaviour..as I posted last night.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/its-a-trap-stewart-mocks_n_459766.html
Diogenes #3601
Qld abolished them in July 1991. The sheer size of the state and population density (& scatter) coupled with the increasing cost of diagnostic and treatment technology meant that the cost was astronomic and, outside Brisbane, uneconomic. The 1991 decision coincided with the Swiss Loans rural crisis & beginning of The drought – 1989 was the last good rainfall until 2007-9, & even this has missed some areas. At the same time, properties were sold/foreclosed becuse of the loans, work disappeared, banks etc branches closed, government services & professionals left towm. What was, as late as the lead-up to the 1982 recession, a well-populated, very wealthy region with elegant cities, depopulated & went a long way down market. All that stopped its decline’s becoming terminal were its extensive ed, medical, Aged care & building industries.
There’s no way any government of a huge state with a relatively small, scattered population could provide CT scanners, MRIs, nuclear scanners (forget their name) LAs and all the other new machines for every hospital, even those 100k or more from the next town. As the doctor etc shortage bit, some towns had nice, well-tended & moderately equipped hospitals, but no doctor. And beyond Charleville was a vast Flying-dr serviced area with no doctors …
Just as my uni went into “train the trainers” with a vengeance & I discovered Strategic Planning, then Strat manag, then TQM, & Roseabeth Moss Kanter’s management (had long been a “Committment & Community” fan). Then Internal off-shore ed, on-line teaching & Into to Research. And eager hospital & health, mining & powerhouse, you name its all looking for a 2-3 semester research/planning topic. And the Internet’s potential. And a “let’s make at least a published paper per student per semester” goal. It’s at least as stressful supervising serious sh#t as it is putting in the hard yards to be cutting edge.
As the Q Distance Ed bloke said to the NT health Services one in remote aboriginal communities. INTERNET! And the hospital librarian & the “just been to the USA to research triage” Ambo, explained to a hospital director about operating theatres going on-line from top hospitals to remote area USA & Canadian doctors, and they all said “LET’S!” OMG! And i had to start reading – and crawling, grovelling, etc (I have a mental allergy to chem & biol so reading was scary)- like a maniac. Two of those med projects made national TV, years after I retired (& again recently). We didn’t envisage what uni place cutbacks for med & paramed, and massive fed funding cutbacks would mean.
The Q system has to work; we can’t afford for it not to. It’s either like T’s regional centre, with adjunct arrangement with Brisbane research & specialist centres; or the gov has to choose between dropping everything to equip c20 cities with the full monty, or it’s force people to travel (or go without). And all it took to apply pressure almost to breaking point were doctor shortages, a lying paranoid dr (& a bureaucratic cover-up of Vatican proportions) and a massive population growth in the Cairns area (although it & Redcliffe – even Bundy – are otherwise good.
There’s no reason why it shouldn’t, if only bureaucrats stop promoting brownie-point counting, ar$slicker bureaucratically upward-mobile “generic managers” to admin positions.
marky
I fled Sydney 30 years ago because I could not afford a house there. For your information people live happy healthy lives outside of the capital cities.
I live on the Sunshine Coast, Qld – population about that of the ACT. My next door neighbour does not catch a train to work, he catches a plane – to WA.
You seem to equate urban sprawl as regional living. It is not.
Gus
It’s the Master Electrician’s. Big deal.
And Garrett says it’s 86, when I said 84. Big deal.
Thomas @3733, cheer up. Garrett as an issue is going to last a week. Whereas Barnaby will be the gift that keeps on giving
Altona by-election post.
OPT
I’ve been amazed to discover how decentralised Qld is. Most of your healthcare occurs out of Brisbane. In SA, it’s about 90% that occurs in Adelaide. It makes it much easier to run health in SA than Qld.
And 5 seconds on google got me this:
http://www.masterelectricians.com.au/news/42-peak-electrical-body-welcomes-decision-on-foil-insulation-
which is the Master Elecrtricians, back in November, thanking Garrett for listening to them and following their advice.
Zoom
The talking points issued by the Fibwells state explicity
NO GOOGLING
I think its called the Robb rule
Garrett banned metal fasteners last year. So its his fault someone uses a banned fastening method?
The Batt guys wanted everything but batts banned, the blow in insulation guys wanted batts banned, the foil guys wanted the blow in stuff banned, etc etc.
Roof fires occured prior to the scheme, people died installing insulation prior to the scheme. 2700 homes per day are being insulated yet only a very few problems are being reported.
It is an absolute beat up.
And he took care to find out where the electric wires were, did he?
z
Two people had died by then. They met with Garrett on Oct 09 and said it should be banned. He said no and then another died. And then he banned it.
Diog
their first media release, requesting the ban, is 16 October. Their next, 1 Nov, congratulates Garrett for his prompt response.
A two week turn around is quick by anybody’s standards.
So proper mandatory training only starts next week. Isn’t that an admission that it should have been mandatory before?
z
He said No. And then someone else died and he changed to Yes. I’m not surprised he changed his mind so quickly under the circumstances.
i never said that people do not live happy lives in the country, in fact the country lifestyle has alot to offer for people- hence it has health benefits and has a much lower crime rate. However urban sprawl shouldnot be encouraged it is unsustainable and in world which climate change is becoming an issue and will become a bigger one in the future we must start making more of people live in cities and in medium density housing.
The outer suburbs again maybe an alternative for people who want to live their but you will find half of people who live their are forced to because of housing affordabiltiy and i am stating that governments should be doing something about the housing affordabiltiy crisis this and that is what i have arguing nothing about how terrible it is to live on the outskirts. I think governments should put more money into low cost housing and public housing in our suburbs to attempt to lower the price of housing..
So, Diog, you’re wRONg.
There was the first death, on Oct 14, which led to the approach from the Master Electricians.
The product concerned was banned on Nov 1.
The next death occured after the ban, on Nov 18 – so it appears the installer was working outside the guidelines.
The extreme arrogance of bankers who not only needed huge public bailout but pocketed huge bonuses in a recession are saying….if you are not nice to us we wont lend.
Yes, if you hurt their feelings they will sulk.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/11/stephen-schwarzman-bank-b_n_459025.html
z
Garrett only banned the staples, not the foil insulation.
He’s now banned the insulation.
http://www.masterelectricians.com.au/news/43-time-to-remove-foil-from-insulation-program
And that is the problem, who is checking that these people are operating in a safe manor. The government is not responsible for the deaths but it is the guidelines and this is its failure.
zoom
The November 18, 2009 death was due to live wires in the roof – nothing really to do with insulation – anyone entering that roofspace was at risk of being zapped.
I bet the inspection of the 40,000 odd roofs finds a squillion of them have dodgy wiring.
And the next day Garrett did exactly what the Master Sparkies recommended.
Geez Diog stick to McGurk and Chantelois, facts seem to be your weak point.
ru
Completely agree. What will happen when the electricians find that many of those houses have illegal wiring (which happened to me when someone put in a light). The electrician is obliged to report it so there are going to be lots of houses needing rewiring.
ru
I always said McGurk was probably making it all up. I was very pleased to be proven right yet again.
And the Master Sparkies make a motza.
Yes, in addition to checking all the 40,000 houses which had foil put in. And given that they’ve said they estimate 1000 houses are “live”, I’m guessing many people who happen to have foil will want an inspection.
Truthy needs to take action urgently. We now have lawyers saying “illegals” aren’t illegal!
Julian Burnside QC, one of Australia’s pre-eminent lawyers had this to say recently
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/pacific-solution-revival-is-unchristian-mr-abbott-20100208-nmtg.html
Truthy needs to get in touch with Mr Burnside and explain the Migration Act to him because he clearly doesn’t understand it. We know Truthy has read the Act and knows the asylum seekers who arrive by boat are “illegals”.
Either Truthy or Julian Burnside are wrong about this. Mind you, given that every human rights organisation (including Amnesty International, the Human Rights Commission, the Edmund Rice Centre, A Just Australia, ProjectSafeCom etc) and the Press Council of Australia and the UK Press Complaints Commission and even our ABC have recognised that asylum seekers are not “illegal” regardless of how they arrive, I am inclined to favour Mr Burnside. Of course I could be wrong and no doubt Truthy will tell me so.
Diog
I would say this is what’s happened:
The Master Electricians approached Garrett and advised him that using BOTH foil fasteners AND foil insulation was the problem.
One product used in isolation wasn’t.
So Garrett banned the fasteners, and the MEs pronounced themselves satisfied (as per their press release I referred to, which I assume you’ve read, which states that this action will save lives).
However, as we know, installers ignored the instruction, leading to more deaths (and these deaths cannot be laid at Garrett’s door, as it seems clear that if the metal fasteners had not been used, electricity could not have been conducted to the foil).
The ME are now engaged in what is known in the business as an arse saving exercise. That’s why their emphasising their Oct 16 release and not their Nov 1 one.
Garrett did what he was asked to do, when he was asked to do it. If the ME had any problems with this, they could have, should have and would have said so in their media release of Nov 1.
I don’t know why you’re so keen to defend the msm against the evidence – we KNOW they ignore inconvenient truths if it doesn’t fit in with their agenda.
z
I think that sounds as close to the truth as we can reasonably expect to get.
PS Did those books arrive?
rossco
Good article – thanks. We can add the Human Rights Commission to that list as well.
I like Burnside’s point about the demonisation of people smugglers too.
And of course those evil people-smuggling members of the French Resistance in WW2.
As was Albert Camus, Samuel Beckett and Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
3765
People smuggling was not the main activity of the French Resistance. They were primarily terrorists but they were on the winning side of history so they don`t get much in the way of bad press for it.
Diog
there’s a mysterious parcel waiting at the post office which I haven’t been able to collect, so I assume the answer is yes.
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, February 13, 2010 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
“Hmmm. What mess. Four dead people”
You were just running Abbotts line , by inuendo , without actualy saying so
You can NOT menton th 4 deaths unless you ar implying Garrett has somehow responsiblity
It is a grubby attack on Peter Garret
Garretts actions show such attacks ar sewer
Firsr death happens , due to metal farteners in Oct , grrett bans themselves
Next 2 deaths ( one caused by roof been live , and second from ‘heat’
Last death ‘alegedly” due to “foil use” , Electricans Asoc say ban it , Garrett does so
Diogenes your “what a mess , 4 deaths” implication is crap Thats Abbotts line
Only when facts ar shown hav you back peddled from your innuendo
Peter Garrets bad politcal mistake was a loose and insensitive tongue later , saying ‘iresponsible minority’ WITHOUT saying who he was referring to (Employers) and without mentoning grieving familys unfortunate loss Deaths of 4 australins is a disgrace red herring USING Grretts tongue as an excuse to link th two
Ron
If you don’t think it’s a mess, you are entitled to your opinion. I think it’s a mess.
Tom the first and best
Do don’t mean ‘Allo ‘Allo is historically inaccurate do you?
Diogs,
Only because it suits your nihlist agenda.
3771
Haven`t seen it.
GG
I could suggest that it suits hard-core Labor followers agenda if they consider it isn’t a mess. But I won’t. I’m much too nice to say that.
In the end, the good voters of Australia will determine if it is or isn’t.
Tom,
It’s one of those documentaries that seeks to prove that the killers of millions were really disorganised buffoons that had no idea what was going on in France during WWII.
Diog
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that this farcicle episode will make Garrett an even more formidible politician, it shows he followed process, listened to the advice of stakeholders, made correct decisions.
That is why he still has his job, why nobody has gone close to landing a punch. An election debate between him and Hunt would be a joke. I bet Hunt gets lost in the loo, like Abbott did v Roxon.
3721
How freakin sad !
How would a drag queen performance artist survive in the country? Would the Townsville RSL Club put on variety nights 3 nights a week – so the performance artist could make ends meet.
Utter crap to suggest everyone move to the “country”
People smuggling was not the main activity of the French Resistance. They were primarily terrorists but they were on the winning side of history]
Tom der erst und der beste, are you disappointed that the nazis lost?
Tom der erste und der beste, are you disappointed that the nazis lost?
(just reformatting)
Diogs,
Define mess.
Is it Abbott screeching murderer?
Is it the well known unbiased media screaming that Labor has a problem?
Is it vested intersests saying that if only their advice had been taken things would be different?
Is it passives like you that look for any reason true or not to slag the government?
Any reasonable and rational examination of the facts says this is a beat up. So, it will pass not because of my partisanship, but because it is fit up.
I suppose you’ll get further endless pleasure from being an independant mind.
However, I remind you that the lunatic asylums are full of independant minds.
B
ru
Training was also an issue which was neglected. It was clearly inadequate. Mandatory training starts next week.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/garrett-left-out-to-dry-by-actu-20100211-nv3w.html
And the ranks of zombie cadres are full of like minds
Lets think about this – what does it take to install insulation? A trained “supervisor” in the roof telling one or two “labourers” where to put the stuff.
Diog when you do boob jobs, does every person in the theatre need the same amount of training as you?
Dio, and where do you put the boobs?
3779
Certainly not!
ruawake@3783
Using his logic, should Nicola Roxon be forced to resign Dio “accidently” leaves some forceps inside the body of a patient who then dies from complications of said Surgery ?
JV,
Our resident “windmill tilter” is always critical of those who cherish teamwork and unity of purpose.
Your frustration at your irrelevance is palpable in all you post.
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, February 13, 2010 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
“Hmmm. What mess. FOUR DEAD people”
That is what you said You said 4 deaths
You were just running Abbotts line , by inuendo , without actualy saying so
You can NOT menton th 4 DEATHS unless you ar implying Garrett has somehow responsiblity !!
It is a grubby attack on Peter Garrett
Posters then reading my #2769 facts of what caused th 4 deaths and Peter Garretts actions , can see
YOUR above post as I quoted , was running Abbotts line , but innuendo nuansed , a line that was both false and grubby
Your later post on th subject camoflages that YOU specific linked “what a mess” TO “th 4 deaths” That is innuendo of Peter Garretts being responible , therefore your later post saying “it is a mess” is spamming ‘spin” against th abov evidense that you linked th 4 deaths to that
Abbott has just been more blatant in acusing , using his sewer attacks
ANY inuendo mention linking of 4 deaths and Peter Garret is disgrace
(Garrett is only guilty of a unpolitcal , looose & insensitive mouth , which I DID say)
Pyne on Insiders tomorrow.
Government closed out of the program ?
GG
Tilting? CC negotiations are now occurring, Garnaut is in the equation, and Rudd is talking about giving some leadership on it at last – I’m doing OK from my wish list, thanks. Oh, and one B Neal looks gone, and that wish goes back to before the 2007 election. Now I think about it, I’d better have a chilled flute of sparkling Cold Duck.
Now would be a good time for me to point out that I don’t do “boob jobs”.
1. The union guy says he told them they should have had mandatory training for safety reasons
2. He was proven right.
2. Garrett has now brought in mandatory training.
Of course, it is very easy to say this using the retrospectoscope (that’s not really a medical word but we love it).
Diogs,
You don’t read your posts on PB then?
Everyone seems to forget that there was an existing insulation installation industry before the government insulation stimulus package. I am sure that I can safely assume that the existing industry had existing standards and licensing requirements which were administered by the States through their OH&S organisations. I can also safely assume that the Commonwealth’s did not and could not agree to insulation that it was funding being installed in contravention of existing building standards. Therefore all contractors undertaking work which would be reimbursed by the Commonwealth were bound by all existing legislative requirements and any additional conditions which the Commonwealth place for reimbursement of the cost.
The problem then arises when the existing insulation supply and installation industry doesn’t have the capacity to cope with the huge demand generated by no-cost insulation for most householders. Shonky operators and shonky practices proliferate in the expanded industry. But the Commonwealth Department of Environment does not have the legislation or resources to police the expanding industry.
It’s obvious that the State’s OH&S organisations have been caught on the hop and have not coped. Furthermore the Commonwealth doesn’t appear to have offered the State any extra money to employ additional inspectors, nor has it taken on the task of checking work which it has paid for and assumed has been done in accordance with mandatory standards.
Hunt knows a bit of law. He has obviously sold his soul to the Minchinites if he runs with Abbott’s “industrial manslaughter” rubbish. But didn’t we already know that when he became salesman for their absurd non-ETS carbon reduction scheme? Abbott can be excused because this is just the typical low-life tactic which is expected of him.
The real story and blame will come out in the coroner inquests and subsequent prosecutions, but the media can’t wait that long.
It’s a pity that no one in the MSM is prepared to call this whole issue for the BS which it is. Hopefully most of the punters will recognise the media beatup for what it is and punish Abbott accordingly.
That is incorrect – follow up inspections are carried out, it is on the form you sign. I Fred Nurk will allow Nude Nuts mates into my roof..
Any indication of the proportion of jobs which are audited?
Snippet at the end of 9News in Melbourne tonight had an IV with Sun editor saying they will have a “massive story tomorrow that will rock the foundations of the Rudd government”
BkH,
I hope it is not just a beat up of Big Kim’s fall.
Don’t tell me they have an email?
Doesn’t matter. They will mock one up just as their sister paper in Sydney, the Daily Telegraph, did.
Scarpat@3799
Maybe they got a Medium to interview one of the dead workers “beyond the grave” ?
Given Fairfax’s recent track record. It would not matter if they had Wayne, Kev, Julia , Nicola, Pete and Penny on video naked covered in custard running down the steps of P. House.
Nobody would believe them.
What about cream?
Frank,
Any comment on the passing of Jock Ferguson today.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/western-australia-labor-mp-jock-ferguson-dies-of-heart-attack/story-e6frgczf-1225829975512
ruawake@3801
I believe, the Melbourne Sun Hearld is on of the stable of Limited Nooz publications.
But the same aplies to them as well.
Ru, did you mean Faifax or Murdoch? The Herald Sun is a Murdoch paper (or is it a comment to a different post?).
PM did a splendid job at the halftime break of the All-Star Game on Nine Network. Phil Gould gave the government some credit, but PM was quick to say there’s a long way to go. Former star Renouf spoke eloquently of what the game means to Indigenous Aussies.
Greensborough Growler@3803
Perth Now and The West has tributes from Eric Ripper, his Union and surprising ly Robin Chapple from the WA Greens – Nothing from the Libs.
I was assuming it was the Sun-Herald – a Fairfax rag.
http://www.sunherald.com.au/
Hem
kev has that natural look on TV, a nice way of showing he has the common touch.
Gus Gould I supect, is a labor man from way back
Evidently there’s a crowd of 26,000 at the All-Star Game at Robina on the Gold Coast. A remarkable for a pre-season Rugby League match. Half-time score: Indigenous Stars 10 NRL Stars 0.
Bob Katter’s Hat mentioned that he saw it on 9News in Melbourne. I am in Sydney but don’t have TV so I can’t say if it was shown as here as well.
Diogenes, whatever happened to the scandal “as big as Haneef” that you were telling us about a few months ago?
Unfortunately Ru, Limited News are going to blitz anti rudd stuff non stop right through to the election.
OK, they never really stopped, but some of this crap does get through to people. Even though many of those who ended up falling for the crap will be badly treated by the libs if they get back in.
They will be relentless, knowing they can print all sorts of lies and misrepresentation and get away with it. The whole mob are a mini-me Fox news.
The abc just re-churn much of this crap.
Was that Rann allegedly rooting Chantelois.
If so, it’s been smothered by a defamation action.
However, most thinking people have made their own minds up about that.
Well, that leaves you out Peter.
No, some sort of medical scandal i think
And is there any evidence that it has caused anyone to change their vote?
Hemingway: For Whom The Balls Roll?
It’s Time – #3817
Not that I am aware of.
However, I don’t view the world through a prism called the ballot box.
I know Rudd Labor urgers do, and that’s what makes them such tragic figures.
PY, so what do you think of democracy?
Good one, Finns!
Final Score
Indigenous Stars 16
NRL Stars 12
Top game and brilliant concept. Well done, all involved.
Just a little scratch of the chip on ones’ shoulder. Do all Greens suffer with this on here?
Diog, stop pretending. you aint no Outsider. You are more of an outcast
Must be about time for a convenient Galaxy Poll I reckon.
Good.
Tom tfab – why would you say the French Resistance in WW2 was mainly into terrorist activities? Evidence?
Excellent, PY, and how do suggest that it be achieved without the ballot box?
i knew the Chinese would be dragged in somehow. it’s in their DNA since the Bendigo Goldfield where Barnyard’s great great Grandfather was made to swallow chop suey and chicken chow mien.
I don’t think it could be achieved without a “ballot box” (although in the future it may be a data base instead of a box–which receives electors intentions).
Man of Match medal handed out by Jenny Macklin: Jonathan Thurston.
All speakers and players interviewed thanked the government.
Both teams played strong, done fine!
Just saw the preview of this on Their ABC – What they don’t say is that the States are equally responsible for providing Disability Support and their Hero Howard demonised People with Disabilities during their time.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2010/s2817123.htm
And I should know.
Especially if used to beat someone over the head.
Can’t wait for the Sunday rags and shows. They should have Abbott and Big Ted cruising to election victories in the near future.
Strange but true: two Eastern European Prime Ministers have Scottish given names! Coincidence, or Caledonian conspiracy?
Gary Bruce #3833
Great….that will make both big parties with expectations of big wins, making them complacent and lazy leaving more room for a third party to take up the slack.
Frank, if the program tells it as it is hopefully it will serve a purpose. The statistic of 1.5 million people having a severe disability rocked me.
Cannot say, conspiracies are Diogenes’ department.
Peter Young,
Your mate over on the Altona thread doesn’t seem to think so!
Does the new ABC charter of ministerial responsibility include football injuries and if so is it on a state or federal level or both?
PAAPTSEF
It’s probably the cardiothoracic case at Flinders. It wasn’t Haneef I compared it to; it was Patel.
The coroner is still deliberating so I won’t pre-empt his findings, other than to say it is disquieting when the Federal Police raid several surgeons homes and offices. They don’t do that lightly.
Which is why people call them Mr Plod.
OK, thanks for replying
I wonder if this is the Story Bob Katter’s Hat was refering to ?
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/senior-mps-unwittingly-linked-to-money-scam/story-e6frg15u-1225829891996
PAAPTSEF
This is the last that’s been reported.
http://abc.gov.au/news/stories/2009/11/30/2757824.htm?site=adelaide
I wonder if anyone else knows of this??
I suspect it is the secret technology that Monckton talks about
http://www.andrewrixon.com.au/This_is_one_of_the_Technologys_Andrew_intends_to_introduce.php
Frank
That’s a bit of a coincidence. Looks like the Federal Police have been busy in Adelaide recently.
Sydney-siders watch out! It’s coming your way again.
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR713.loop.shtml#skip
It’s flooding down in Queanbeyan, and has been all day. I think that will do for now, Huey.
[PAAPTSEF
This is the last that’s been reported.
http://abc.gov.au/news/stories/2009/11/30/2757824.htm?site=adelaide
The coroner has probably imploded trying to make sense of all that
Hmm, only possible reference is this.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/gillard-slams-raunch-culture/story-e6frf7l6-1225830064411
I hate to seem innocent and stupid, but does anyone know how to complain to the Australian?
They are running 4 photos of the death of the luge competitor.
Its just wrong.
3826
They blew up infrastructure and otherwise attacked the occupiers while blending in with the local population (which they were often part of). Things that would fit under modern anti-terrorism laws. There is a famous quote (I don`t know who said it originally) “one man`s terrorist is another man`s freedom fighter”.
‘State poll an early test of national mood’ is a headline of one of the stories in the OZ re the Tassie election. Are they serious? Hell if we’d used the state elections as a barometer to the national thinking during Howard’s time the Howard government would have fallen long ago.
Gary Bruce@3853
They said the same thing about the WA State Election 18 months ago
Found it
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/veil-of-secrey-surrounds-stephen-conroy-and-kerry-stokes-meeting/story-e6frf7jo-1225830058701
They’re kidding, right? ‘Rock’ the government? Good grief…
Well, Mr Squiggle.
You could…Incredible as this may seem!
Consider an entirely remarkable approach.
Write a letter.
On a piece of paper.
And just in case Murdoch is strapped for cash.
Provide a stamped, self addressed envelope, maybe even a few sheets of blank paper.
See how it goes.
So its a “get em” article
Ho bloody Hum
Gusface@3858
And Kev will now be asked questions of this since he and Kerry are good pals and buddies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtGD7jG8RNo
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, February 13, 2010 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
“It’s pretty amazing to me that in the 9 years since 9-11, there has never been a death which would have been prevented by a body scanner and internationally billions are being spent on them.”
and your answer , but for luck , to th USA xmas day bomber would be ?
ALL Laws , like th pre airplane body scaning (or Internet filters) is not to make terrorism (or child porn) impossible , but more dificult
Despite upsetting th precous but foolish Libartariens , th majority of sensible voters support such Laws for that very reason (ie a reduction of offenses)
Frank
they got nutting,the MSm have blown it big time with joe/josephine public
I await the headline that Rudd “eats babies”
Too bad they jumped the gun so to speak.
easily spooked and easilier conned are the Fibwells and their loyal band of scum.
I mentioned earlier a Galaxy Poll should be called upon soon.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26719236-952,00.html
Wow,let it all out sunshine,dont hold back
Something tells me 7, 9 & 10 won’t be running with the latest Ruddbash, but their ABC will be falling over themselves
The Garrett thing will die the death over this week.
Tom the first and best
Posted Saturday, February 13, 2010 at 11:40 pm | Permalink
3826
“They (French Resistanse) blew up infrastructure and otherwise attacked the occupiers (th NAZI’s) while blending in with the local population (which they were often part of).
Things that would fit under modern anti-terrorism laws. There is a famous quote (I don`t know who said it originally) “one man`s terrorist is another man`s freedom fighter”. ”
th French , like th Palestiniens (Fatah) and th Timorese (Fretlin) , were invaded
Occupiers Nazi Germany and Israel and indonesia miltarily stronger
To call any of these Groups terorists , instead of reely resistanse fighters trying to get invaders out of there lands , ar th patthetic words of suporters of those invaders
Dario@3864
In particular 7, but I’ll bet Nine will run with it emphasising the Stokes link.
Dario
Is it cos Janet sees Kevs face evertime she uses Mr Sheen to polish the doorknobs?
Gusface@3868
Do you mean she gets Howard to polish the Doorknobs ?
Mr Sheen = John Howard
No, that’s Keith’s job
Ron
You forgot the mujahadeen/taliban or in fact the IRA
Or in fact some dude called G Washington could reasonably labelled a terrorist
But we wont go there
I hope it isn’t as severe as last night. The roof of the Bourbon & Beefsteak collapsed last night at the height of the storm and both it and the Swans Club are closed until further notice.
usface
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 12:21 am | Permalink
“Ron You forgot the mujahadeen/taliban or in fact the IRA”
Gus , as always you rite
Ron
No you,GG and Finns are always rite,i just happen to follow in your slipstream
3866
The French Resistance were fighting nasty people doing the wrong thing. Their aim was good. The The PLO/Fatah/other Palestinian militant groups are the perfect example of the saying. To the Israelis they are terrorists but to the Arabs they are freedom fighters.
Tom – #3875
You are perfectly corect in your assessment.
TTFAB
Bush used the analogy of Total war to good effect in the USA
A suspension of morality occurred in places cos of the threat of terrorism.
I still think the quandry is in at what level of combat does one become the same as one’s enemies?
3876
Of course.
Notice Diogenes has dropped following nuansed posts following th rotten Abbott line against Garrett , but Tony has not Could Tony be lower than Howard
Age Newspaper :
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said yesterday Mr Garrett
”must pay for these four deaths with his job ”
Then we WA Treasurer Troy Buswell using th Diogenes innuendo techique IMPLYING Garrett to blame for th 4 deaths but not actualy by saying (Buswell) :
“his department was told by federal Environment Department officials in a phone hook-up last year that the scheme was expected to have a 10 per cent failure rate, such as unsatisfactory work.”
Mr Garrett’s former colleague Australian Conservation Foundation chief executive Don Henry:
”You didn’t blame Tony Abbott for the deaths of people in the health system when he was health minister,”
The U.S. will be as bad as the Taliban when it starts bombing schools simply because girls attend classes there.
Mr Squiggle @ 3851
Just e-mail a Letter to the Editor at letters@theaustralian.com.au making it clear it is a complaint and why you are not happy.
If you don’t get a satisfactory reply make a complaint to the Australian Press Council at http://www.presscouncil.org.au/ – they have an established procedure for making complaints, which should be used more often, in my opinion
Tom the first and best
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 12:27 am | Permalink
3866
“The French Resistance (INVADEES) were fighting nasty people (NAZI’s)doing the wrong thing.(INVADING) Their aim was good.
The The PLO/Fatah/other Palestinian militant groups (INVADEES) are the perfect example of the saying. To the Israelis (INVADORS) they are terrorists but to the Arabs they are freedom fighters ”
On your logic , th Nazi’s (INVADORS) wuld call French resistanse terorists
which proves my #3866 pont , invadors always falsely all th pop who ar resisting
terorists , instead of corectly ‘resistanse fighters , that both Palistiniens and Fetlin ar
Intentionally or as collateral damage?
By use of proxy forces or directly?
Does Vietnam count?
Ahh, the Poisoned Dwarf in fine form.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26719493-3102,00.html
Watching how Labor backbenchers these days are mainly cyphers, appearing on the Parliamentary “doors” mouthing the lies given to them by a flack from the Prime Minister’s office….
Michelle Grattan, This is no fun camp: show underperformers to the door .
It seems the real world in Canberra is imitating the virtual world on PB blog.
YMP
Michelle just wishes she was in the tent
I feel her pain
I had read that the Swans club was in serious financial trouble,about 13 Mil owed,so I dont suppose it would matter whether the club was open or shut it also said perhaps the Swans AFL club might be liable for the losses.
Mind you I dont think anyone in Sydney would care if the Swans vanished off the face of the earth.
ps
YMP
your mention of the B&B brought back fond memories of the Manzill room and the Test Tube Factory from days long past
I hope they rebuild the B&B
Gus,
PY #3885 delib changed Grattans word ‘lines’ for “lies”
We hav th anti Labor snipers : PY and Bob 123456 in th open , j/v & Diogenes nuanse
Ron
They can eat our dust,dusteaters!
Under rule 69 of the Fibwells “guide to spin”, it explicitly states
MAKE UP AS MUCH BULLSHIT AS TOU VAN GET AWAY WITH
ps Give PY a break,he is but a buoy in a sea of men
Exhibiting the downright dishonesty he always accuses others of. PY, that behaviour shows you to be nothing but a fraudulent scumbag.
TOU VAN is of course the codeword words for YOU CAN
probably a typo at Fibwell HQ
Dario
You hadnt twigged afore his latest Heffernanism
Hardly. I’ve had him stfu’d for some time
Young MP is in his elelnt on the Altona Thread
Frank
tagged him already
Night Shows
Good to see you maintaining your standards of intellectual discourse.
I await your next snipe with trepidation
#3889
That is a freakin LIE.
No peter you substituted LIES not LIE
Get your LIES straight dude
#3892 – Dario
What is your full name and address?
PY
Why avoid your LIES?
Gusface- #3900
That is a freakin LIE.
#Gusface 3902.
I have not told a lie. However, you and others have told several. Would you like to sort this out in front of an “independent” arbitrator ?
No PT
LIES Dude,what you specialise in.
Your cover is blown troll
Run rabbit run
LOL
#Gusface – 3906
I would suggest you withdraw all statements you have made about me now.
I will give you one opportunity.
PY
You are so badly done over,your best advice is just slink away and try again when you get over your freakin propensity TO MAKE SHIT UP
Ohhh
PY
So you are up to your old tricks again
Ozpolitics anyone?
Contact the IOC they are the ones selling video and photos of the dead luger and profiting quite nicely from it.
They are also removing youtube videos of the accident due to “copyright violations”.
Ahhh… money speaks it seems.
Gusface – #3908
No. I have not been done over. I am rewuesting you withdraw the false statements you have made.
Otherwise, I will ask someone else to determine whether your statements are true or not. The onus of proof lies on you.
PY
Your true mission has been revealed
TROLL
Sounds a tad icky IMHO
Gusface – #3912
I repeat @3911. You are merely exacerbating the situation. You do so at your own peril.
Is Bubbles still awake?
I cant of,I have run out of cream
Gusface – #3915
I think this has gone beyond a joke or a laughing matter.
PY
I agree,bubbles shouldn’t be up this late and anyway does bubbles need the intrusion?
Author@000 on nielsen-54-46
While Michelle Grattan wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/this-is-no-fun-camp-show-underperformers-to-the-door-20100213-ny12.html
Oh Dear – Someone is going to eat a nice Fecal Sandwhich – and it ain’t Gus
PY 3885
The article actually uses the word LINES yet magically PY’s post contains the word LIES
Bad Bubbles?
I don’t know who Bubbles is.
However, I have just gone back to the Altona thread and i have posted this which is the crux of the matter.
Frank
There is no issue that what I wrote was not correct.
The issue is set out in 3921.
Bubbles did it?
Gusface@3923
Nah, Kristina, his dog did it
Frank – #3924
No, Kristina did not type that.
Doggone it
Gusface – #3926
Please address the issue and stop making silly comments.
PY
A mini or shoulder dress
TROLL
Gusface – #3928
It is apparent you do not wish to face up to reality. So the only option left for me is to ask you to face up to the issue in another forum.
What is your full name and address?
PY
LOL
PS
TROLL
Gusface
Okay… we will do things the hard way. As you choose.
Petet
No cream?
Peter Young@3929
Oh dear, you’ve been sprung like a stunned Rabbit and you STILL deny that you deliberately altered Michelle Gratten’s Article.
You’ve been exposed as a blatent peddlar of untruths and a fecal stirrer.
No wonder nobody takes you seriously, and that includes our host – as you obviously have some serious personal issues which I recommend you get dealt with by an appropriate Health Professional – For Everyone’s Sake.
Frank
No more blowing Bbubbles?
Frank Calabrese – #3934
Are you asserting as a fact that I deliberately altered the article ?
Frank
actually scrach bubbles,just send the happy bus
STAT
Peter Young@3936
It is there in Black and white – Copy/Paste does NOT magically remove a letter at one’s convenience, so must one assume you did it purposely to imply that Labor Pollies tell untruths.
You’re just squealing like a little girl cos you’ve been caught in the lolly jar.
PS
I havent had this many “opportunitities’ since that nigerian billionaire got my email
must be my lucky date
PY, the obvious implication of the exchanges here is that people don’t believe you. You are not seen as a “good-faith” contributor. And I can see why. You claim some kind of green tendency. But in fact you are a regular and strident anti-Labor voice who pretends not to be. You are a Lib for all intents and purposes, but you feign otherwise. your outrage is quite spurious.
Gusface@3937
Where he can share a room with this person
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGDakKx4_FY
#3938
You are going to prove a fact by an assumption? You will be laughed out of the forum.
But anyway, good luck with that one Frank.
Briefly
careful,he is armed and opportunistic.
Bubbles and Cream attorneys at law
P.S.
It is not necessary for you to supply your name and address Frank. Unless of course you want to provide it on here.
Frank
I am a Hill Street Blues Tragic
“be careful out there and look out for each other”
lol Gus. I have Pavlova, Strawberries and Mango. They will give him his deserts.
Frank
Stallking and Harassment?
Or
Impersonation of an Officer of the Court
Briefly
Desserts even,deserts are where his morals are from.
PY has a touching inability to deny the truth: call him a Lib and he goes mute.
i usually have pudding
Gusface@3947
Neither, but perhaps this may describe YP’s Thought Processes at the moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1HOHzYeVQ
briefly
how can you have your puddin,when you aint eaten your meat
With apols to Pink Floyd
briefly—
Are you delusional?
Peter Young@3953
Says he who enjoys one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv12vFNMjeE
Briefly
are you delusional
what is your name and address
this is your last chance (of many last chances)
Another forum will decide your fate
ps Do you know where Bubbles blew off to
pps does Bo ever get to hump hope
ppps Dont stand in my shadow
Now that issue has been dealt with in the appropriate fashion, back to some stories in the MSM-
Minister’s secret ski tryst with Seven mogul Kerry Stokes
At lease Dio goes about his efforts with a little more subtlety. Though easy to pick after a some observation.
The MSM also has this article:-
State keeps database of Royal Adelaide Hospital opponents
The ABC has this item:-
Corruption probe: Keneally refuses to stand down MP
Peter Young@3956
Do keep up – I already posted that and it was discussed way back here:
Author@000 on nielsen-54-46
The courier Mail leads with this story:-
Anna Bligh and Labor facing electoral annihilation
The SMH has this
Belinda Neale sits tight
OBama has made a few rookie mistakes, they all do. And has been a bit to optimistic about dealing with the Republicans. And has made one silly comment supporting bankers pays.
But in all being President in the USA doesn’t give you much power to pass laws, in fact zero power almost considering the below.
At a time when the country really does need the President to govern and implement his laws…… the GOP turn traitor on their country.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/84487.html
And basically it is because of one particular person not in politics that most of the media is lying and misleading the public.
Peter Young@3961
Oh Dear, still losing your touch – Gary Bruce mentioned it here:
Author@000 on nielsen-54-46
Might pay to leave politics to the Grown Ups
The Illaarra Mercury has this:-
Jonovski, Esen plead not guilty in ICAC case
The trial starts on 30 June 2010.
This is not a smart move by Papandreou
Already according to a poll 70% of the German people don’t want the govt to bailout Greece.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-johnson/greece-derails-is-europe_b_461090.html
Old people must be frightened – even unable to sleep at night.
BT shares fell sharply yesterday after the telecoms group revealed the ‘substantial concerns’ of the pensions watchdog over a deal to plug its record £9bn pension scheme black hole.
Belfast Telegraph BT shares hit by fear over £9bn pension deficit
The Democrats are stuffed because they are gutless and find it to actually support the Democrat POTUS.
And for fs what about thinking about the unemployed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/us/politics/14memo.html?hp
The Left of politics always seem so timid and too self conscious, lacking the nasty streak the Conservatives always have. You elect them to govern but they are too scared to.
Old folks, whose decrepit bodies mean they are unable to go out and work, and whose life savings are tied up in the stock market, will be terrified by Pravdas predictions:-
Experts are expecting a recession in China along with a new wave of the economic crisis. They say that the next two years may become critical for both China and the global economy. The growth of the Chinese GPD is caused by financial bubbles that can burst and bring the country into a recession followed by a global economic crisis
China’s Huge Economic Bubble To Trigger Another Major World Crisis .
Meanwhile, the younger generation will continue to think about the things that really matter.
The volatility of markets and uncertainty of the future worth of a pension fund is one aspect that will make it difficult for Govt to play around with existing Superannuation tax treatment.
Govt might look at all the potential tax money given up to Superannuation but the alternative is people giving up on Super and putting the onus back onto a govt pension.
I don’t know what the differential is but if it means people being self funded in retirement govt should be happy and encourage it.
I posted my totally non-professional thoughts here on that:
http://ozelection2007.info/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6783
I am starting to come to the opinion that we may well be only part way through the market fall and not yet in a recovery phase. And there are a number of commentators out there that suggest there will be some further significant downward correction or worse to come.
I also posted a link regarding China’s asset bubble and vast over capacity. But I don’t think it is a problem for China so much, they have huge reserves and the govt god like powers to deal with issues. It is the countries that depend on China’s growth that will be affected.
BLOGGERS
GUS , DARIO , FRANK and BRIEFY exposed PY DELIB CHANGING Michelle Grattans article
SINCE THEN , PY has spammed almost 2 pages of Thread to camoflage ,
hoping Posters wont go back a whole 2 pages of tread posts
Those intersted can go back to page 78 or #3885 , by passing PY’s spamming ,
or earlier if wish (for posts on othr subjects that bloggers posted)
A very Happy Chinese New Year to ALL
- It’s the Year of the TIGAR. They will roar, meow, meow, meow and then Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. This is for them, and my Amigo Vera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkUpXtsJqU
We dolphins just wanna have fun. Just got too many Tigaresses in my life – - He’s looking at you, kid:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01361/Dolphin-tiger_1361198i.jpg
until then he’ll be just a Solitary Man.
With the devastating revelation that Conroy skiied with someone who has something to do with the area his department regulates, it is time that I turned myself in.
You see, dear bludgers, several years ago Steve Bracks visited this area after a disaster and I gave him a pot of homemade blackberry jam.
A few days later, he gave our local community $2 million in disaster relief funding.
I have always joked that that demonstrates the worth on my blackberry jam, but now I realise the full imiplications of my actions: I bribed the Premier.
Shorter Michelle Grattan: none of those bastards will leak to me, how I am supposed to get stories?
Finns,
I presume every year is the Year of the Dolphin?
OK, a while since I looked at the Oz, forgot how entertaining it is.
Recommend this one for sheer comedic value:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/pyne-stands-tall-as-coalition-emerges-from-the-wilderness/story-e6frg6zo-1225830044267
With quotes such as:
The author is purportedly Ross Fitzgerald, but I think he outsourced this one to Pyne’s mum.
ThomasPaine 3963
Which is probably bad for the economy in terms of public leaqdership should further stimulus, regulatory change etc, be required
zoomster
Nyaah! Ross, an historian & a Qlder, cheers for the Libs. So does Scott Prasser. Has been since way back eg before the 1983 Lib Nat split. Really stuck the ice pick into the Nats during the Moonlight State Era (didn’t they all); though a big bouquet for his support of “politically incorrect” cops who stayed clean during the Joh-Lewis-Lane horror stretch
Old Qld Lib hate list: Top, Nats; Runner up, ALP. Greens? Ignore. (Democrats used to be “a worry”)
PY
After reading the post Ron linked to (your 3885) and the altered text by yourself (inserting “lies” for “lines”, I think you need to apologise if it was an innocent mistake. Otherwise there is good reason for the rest of us not to trust what you say after that. Not clever.
As for the economics, I have two views:
On Greece, I don’t blame the Germans and others for not wanting to bail them out. There was always doubt about them joining the Euro zone and they have not kept their promises. Some of their economic reporting appears to be deliberate fraud, massaging figures to fit within EC benchmarks. Even now, with their country on the line, they still have not made major reforms, only more promises. This also has other political ramifications. Why should Turkey be kept out if the Greeks are allowed to remain in. Arguably Turkey has made more effort at legal and economic reform to join the EC than Greece has. They will now understandaly resent any future rejection.
On China, I think those projecting doom and gloom should calm down. China still has a lot of growing to do. We are talking about a country shifting one billion people to an industrialised standard of living. It took Japan 50 years to do that for 100 million. China’s growth may go through short term halts, even a few bubbles, but won’t stop within my lifetime. Read the Henry review or some Treasury analytical speeches for some salient graphs and historical comparisons with Japanese and Korean growth. Our risk is not that China will stop, but that we might fail to equip ourselves to keep up.
Two Coalition interviews two weeks in a row on Insiders? I won’t be watching today.
At least they could pretend not to be biased.
Socs, PY has had what, over 5 hours to correct his post if it was an innocent mistake.
No clarification has been posted and that really is the answer. He has been caught out falsifying grattens article in order to suit his own agenda.
Its game set and match for PY.
Rudd is in trouble. Josh Gordon in todays Age tells us that Abbott has rattled Rudd, the coalition has been united quickly, the election is a real contest, Abbott was compared to Latham but is no longer- he has been disciplined. The government will be blamed for higher interest rates. Yes, no mention of the Garrett overreaction, the choice of Barnaby, the CC flipflopping.
Rudd is in trouble in the sense that Abbott is getting and will continue to get a dream run in MSM. Any government issue is going to blown up, and opposition shortcomings buried. Rudd is not and will not be forgiven for toppling their King Howard.
If anyone watches Pyne on Insiders in full, please summarize his interview. I can’t stand to watch the twit.
Paranoid much?
A subject you’d be very familiar with bob.
Socrates
I have not explained how that error came about for this reason -
1. The experts on here had already decided (without asking) that I had deliberately altered the qote.
2. The experts on here had already decided that I had cut and paste from the original article and then went back over it and changed the word.
3. The experts on here had already decided that I had deliberately told a lie.
After posting my original article and returning to the pages I saw all the posts setting out as “fact” the above. Acoordingly, I deliberately chose not to offer an explanation about something by which stage had become a well established dogma, but rather to test whether those people expressing those known “facts” had even thought about the issues involved. Sadly their answers did not reveal much except to the extent of laughing at me by one person, and another who disclosed his thought processes:-
1. You cut and paste.
2. You then went back and deliberately altered the word.
As that person was wrong – but had expressed his defamatory statements (as had the others) in such strong terms it was apparent to me that any explanation I gave as to how the error came about would not change their minds, nor would it abate the relentless defamatory remarks. Accordingly, I chose simply to pose a few questions, request a withdrawal of the remarks and take appropriate screen shots.
I formed the view the accusers would not accept anything I said. To explain how the error occurred would be met with the same prejudged attitude. Further, I also formed the view, when proven wrong, the accusers would not apologise.
However, it is clear you have at least an open mind – so I will explain.
That quote was not a cut and paste job. It was typed by me (transposed) from the original article – and clearly incorrectly – by me typing it directly into the computer. Obviously, I did not press the “n” hard enough in the word “lines”. I did not pick up the error until numerous posts with the defamatory comments. I did not deliberately type in the word ‘lies” as was suggested, nor did I intend to us e that word.
That error has been unfortunate – because it converted what I thought was a pretty good joke (that is backbenchers repeating lines – like welded ons here repeating lines) – into a completety different thing.
Now for the apologies:
1. The first and biggest apology goes to Michelle Gratten for my inadvertent misquoting of her. It goes to show how important a mere letter may be – and I apologise for my sloppy typing.
2. To any reader of PB who relied on the misquote without opening the link below – I also apologise.
I don’t expect this post will alter the set in concrete views of some posters on here. So be it.
Thank you PY
Gave the chip on the shoulder a scratch on the way through I see.
PY,
As we’ve come to expect, nothing but lines from you.
LOL.
Finally when forced to, PY has come up with a story. Its taken him almost 8 hours.
There is a need to review his story with the way he has posted here previously and the way he goes about judging others.
If he is judged by the way he judges others, he is in big trouble.
They’re trying to analyse Rudd on “insiders”. It’s coming across as a Rudd bash.
Has anyone commented on the 59-41 Galaxy poll to the Libs in Qld?
I imagine there will be another round of leadership speculation. As I’ve said before, she can come over here and replace Rann if you don’t want her.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,1,26719236-952,00.html
GB, I no longer watch Insiders, after never missing an episode. My Sunday mornings are now so much better!!
Its patently clear that the MSM mostly hate Rudd, and will do all they can to maximise the Coalition vote. Now I dont think that means the coalition win, but they’ll do much better than they should do
Bligh’s approval rating is 28% with a disapproval rating of 64%. It looks like she’s making some tough responsible decisions early in the election cycle.
Dave
Judge me as you like. However, I challenge you to find one post where I have ever accused anyone on PM of deliberately altering a quote or called them a liar (unless I was in a position to prove it).
I must say it doesn’t have to be a thrashing for me to be happy on election night. As long as they get back I’ll be delighted.
She’s stepping in front of a moving bus?
I don’t know whether she’ll win the next election or not but I believe these figures are the result of her removing the petrol subsidy.
It is interesting though that without an election in sight a Sunday paper is regularly running a local poll.
Ah, HTT, that Labor voting son of a gun.
Well, Insiders was worth it today, with the ‘Talking Pictures’ segment – the guest cartoonist went to school with Abbott and recounted how Abbott used to throw oranges at him.
And the snippet of Greg Hunt suddenly made me realise who he reminds me of – Pitt the Younger from Blackadder. I now expect him to burst into poetry and confess that he feels all lonely and depressed.
Pyne was his usual unimpressive self, ended up contradicting his whole defence of Barnaby by signing off with a comment on the lines of Barnaby will improve, eventually.
Bary Bruce – #4000
I am wondering if it is more than interesting. Could be a part of a conspiracy.
Bligh seems to be hostage to conservative economic advice from Treasury and the opinion of the dubious ratings agencies. Credible economists have disputed her asset selloff strategy. Removing the problematic 8c fuel subsidy was an unpopular move. And, with more than 2 years to the next election, I’m sure those being polled are only focusing on current negatives rather than contemplating the alternative being offered by the LNP.
Dio 3994
I hadn’t seen the Qld poll but am not entirely surprised. I was back in Brisbane a few weeks ago and was staggered by the amount of traffic congestion – as bad as anywhere in Sydney. I know as a transport planner I take more notice of such things than most, but even so, the loss in time and quality of life for residents must be having an impact. I felt some frustration at this, because I (amoung others) had done some work on transport investment needs in Brisbane some years ago that got largely ignored. Politicians liek boasting that their city is growing by 50,000 people a year, but don’t like facing up to the unpopular decisions this entails.
Again I may be biased but, if current trends continue, we are going to have to do something serious about long term transport planning and public transport investment in particular if our cities do not all end up like Brisbane now. The Henry review projeects Sydney and Melbourne to hit 7 million by 2049 and Brisbane 5 million. at that point the usual excuses we make as to why we can’t afford European or Asian standard publci transprot won’t wash. Sydney then will be larger than San Francisco, and it will either sprawl out Los Angeles style with freeways everywhere, or require the rail network to finaly be fixed. the same is true for Melbourne and Brisbane. Adelaide is “only” headed for 2 million, but that wil still take major road and rail upgrades. Perth is in the best shape thanks to Alannah McTiernan’s efforts, but they will still have to continue with more major rail upgrades to keep up; they will have 4 million.
Please note I am not implying support for large population growth. I’d rather see restraint and force industry to train locals. But even the ABS “Low” population projections are staggering. The simple fact is that the mining boom, which won’t stop, is creating lots of jobs and that attracts people. There is a need for a fundamental shift in investment priority. They are not my field but I’m sure the same is true for provision of health and education services.
Actually GB, I think that is one vote you will have to write off
It’s Time
Are a lot of these policies motivated by Bligh’s wish to get back Qld’s AAA rating?
Where specifically? Was it impacted by the infrastructure upgrades which are currently being built?
4003 – Oh dear another spelling mistake Peter. You are having trouble.
AGoodLurk – usual PrissyPyne – he said Barnaby is such a good bloke and Pyne’s electorate loves what he says about debt, even the Labor part of the electorate. The rest was the usual Govt. bashing and Liberal spin.
Cassidy did refer to Abbott’s piece that’s been previously linked on PB re employers and employees taking responsibility for the workplace themselves. Pyne brushed that aside.
Cassidy talked about ministerial responsibility and said the holding of Ministers accountable PREDATES the Howard years. Pyne took a bit of a gulp at that one but just said ‘putting that aside …..” and went on to say Garrett should go. So anything Howard ministers did is absolutely a no go zone because they were all so pure apparently.
Mike Bower’ segment was good – cartoon drawings were ironed which was funny.
Kastilides did the Voxpop bit with Aust Sceptics who made some good points about climate change sceptics who are just deniers. They are not – they accept the science in large part.
Rudd got a really bad run – especially re the kid’s Q&A. They did not show the segment where the kids asked about tolerance in the community and for which they heavily applauded Rudd. Pyne mentioned it so they will be scouring the kids to give them what they want.
George Megalogenis made a terrific point. Said that the MSM are enjoying Abbott too much and are not questioning enough. Said Joyce is like a journalist and just says anything that comes into his head – a really good observation. Doesn’t matter whether it is factual or not just say or write it.
I thought they were fair about Peter Garrett.
Socrates
Are any of those cities considering having an underground like London, Paris etc?
YA THINK?!?
That and the 20% increase in Rego’s weeks after winning the election(no mention prior to the election of this) has really given people the shits.
She’s a gonner.
That is the only motivation. Bligh has wimped out. She was not prepared to wait for the economy to rebound and State revenues to pick up again or go into debt for the time necessary. I suspect that most of the sales will not go through but she will not completely undo the damage which she has done to her government.
Well, others in the community of yokels up there have been putting it down to other things Mr, Labor Voter.
Good. The CPRS Senate negotiations are still alive.
Peter Hartcher and I are watching closely, hoping Rudd starts the old “crash through” approach on the issue with the Libs and the othe rsceptics.
I hope Prof Garnaut was at the negotiating table in spirit too.
Truth be known Qld’s Labor government was probably for the high jump anyway. Governments have a shelf life of around 10 years here in Australia these days. Most Labor governments are coming up or have surpassed that mark by a couple of years.
Link for #4015:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ets-talks-continue-with-senators-rudd-20100214-nywu.html
jv
I saw Penny Wong yesterday in town. I really felt like going up to her and asking if there was any chance Labor and the Greens would come up with something.
Labor’s problem is not just with the Greens. After them you need to convince two more.
JV = 4015
Very welcome news.
However, I suspect many of the rusted ons will be very upset. The mantra of it’s a waste of time negotiating with the Greens looks like it will need to be changed.
Either tht, or Rudd’s approval rating will take a dive in the next poll.
Of course there is a chance Tony will get in and the opportunity for an ETS will have passed us by. We will end up with Workchoices Mark 2 though.
Let’s just give that chip on the shoulder another scratch. There, that’s better.
Peter Young #3961
Trust the CM (+Madonna) to bash Bligh, commission a galaxy poll & come up with the same story twice. Last time was 10 days after state election was called (23/02/09) and 16 before Bligh won 51 of the 89 seats (the LNP won 34)
Let’s try two Galaxy Polls before 2009′s state election:
26/02/09: Galaxy poll shows Queensland state election split 50:50
05/02/09 LNP leads ALP in Queensland election, Galaxy poll finds
One comment: The Bligh government is so out of touch, it’s only worried about winning in SE QLD
Electoral Commission of Qld: Election 21/03/2009′s results? ALP 51, LNP 34, other 4 So the LNP ended up 17 seats behind the ALP!
Qld’s electoral dynamic, since the gerrymander was abolished & an independent electoral commission installed is, “The election is won or lost in the SE corner”, and SEQ doesn’t vote Nat. The rest of the state doesn’t vote Liberal.
I’ve been told (in the Libs’ case, by one who would know) that private polling (& other research) by ALP & what remains of the Libs – the sort that looks at key voter-swaying issues – does not agree with today’s Galaxy poll, any more than it did in Election 09.
Note that repetitive hospital scandals the CM adores are in regional hospitals, mainly Bundaberg, an LNP seat site of almost all scandals & Cairns where the problems are overcrowding, staff shortages & patients being “bumped” to other regional hospitals; not malpractice (quite the opposite). Cairns – with its 10.96% Green vote, bigger Greenie/ Environmental activist population & significant Aboriginal & Islander population, + Qld’s “Op-pref” voting and very few CM readers (Regional press is more balanced, though still R-leaning) – is unlikely to vote LNP.
The next Qld state election is due around Easter 2012. The SE water grid is finished. The Children’s Hospital (a Bris Northside issue in 09) has died. Apart from staffing & building issues, there are no hospital medical issues; quite the opposite, as it has international cutting-edge centres in cancer (inc Ian Frazer at the PA) and neurosurgery (inc spinal). By 2012 problem most dusty-noisy road-building (esp Airport link) will be finished. Women voters are very proBligh, and there’s an extensive antiCM’s & Madonna King’s “Bullying Bligh” network.
Currently, not even LNP optimists can see Bligh losing Qld’s SE.
BH
I know you don’t get free to air so you wouldn’t have seen the Aboriginal All Stars league game on 9 last night.
An Aboriginal Lady sang the national anthem and then accompanied by Aunt someone, the Aboriginal elder representing the local people, mentioned the 2nd anniversery of the Rudd apology to massive cheers. (26.000+ of them
)
At halftime Kev and one of the Aboriginal ex players who helped organise it spoke with Gus Gould.
Kev was his normal humble self and when given praise for putting up the money and supporting the event he deflected the praise away to others.
He came accross really well, I felt like giving the tellie a hug
At the presentation to the winners he stayed away, Maclin and Arbib represented the govt.
I said to OH “if it had been Howard he would have made sure he was on stage hogging the spotlight like he did at the Grandfinals (kev don;t do that either)
OH said,”If Howard was still in an event like this would never have taken place”
He don’t talk much about politics but he comes out with a gem now and then.
OzPolTragic – #4023
Gary Bruce has suggested the regular polling by a media organisation so far out from a election is interesting. I have suggested it is probably part of a conspiracy.
Do you have any views on that.
From this, to celebrating 12% 2PP negative swings from a position of incumbency, it appears PB would be in massive celebratory uproar if Labor lost government in every parliament in Australia.
*scratches head*
Up where the wires broke
The pine wood and the hardwood oak
Foil Insulation and batt covered lights
Steam in forty five degrees
The time has come
To say fair’s fair
To pay the rent
To pay our share
The time has come
A fact’s a fact
It’s time to admit
That we’ve screwed up
How can we dance when our earth wires shorting
How do we sleep while our roofs are burning
How can we dance when our earth wires shorting
How do we sleep while our roofs are burning
The time has come
To say fair’s fair
To pay the rent, now
To pay our share
Diogenes
Understandable – you should have. But what is she doing wandering around Adelaide, far from the centre of the action? No offense to Adelaide, but she should be holed up in a secret conference room in the old section of Canberra, wearing a green lightshade, sleeves rolled up as far as Bruce Springsteen’s, hammering out the CPRS of the century.
Its Time
I saw severe traffic congestion in several suburbs – the CBD plus Chermside, St Lucia, Toowong, Indooroopily to name a few. I was delayed on the Gateway Arterial at Deagon (north side; well out) at 6.30AM on the way to the airport. (That road will take major work to fix – expensive). The CBD is understandable but the rest are NOT near the construction sites. No doubt things will improve when the tunnel and Gateway Upgrade projects are completed, but they will not alter the outer suburban situation. Brisbane is a 2 million city, still relying on the PT network of a 1 million city. A lot of (good) work is udnerway, but it started 5 years too late.
Dio 4011
As for undergrounds, I hope NOT, though you ask a good question! Unless you have Tokyo, Hong Kong or New York property values, or a colonial empire to pay for them, undergroudns are rarely a cost effective solution. Even in Paris and London, most of the PT demand is shifted on surface rail networks.
The answer requires a lot of complex study, so I don’t wish to sound too glib. But overall, tunnels are very expensive forms of infrastructure. If a road costs $1 million, it might cost $2 million on a bridge or $5 million in a tunnel. This is true for roads and rail systems. The real answer is to plan properly and set aside transport corridors for later construction of the infrastructure when the demand rises. It is much cheaper and you can afford to do it properly. Perth is a good example of getting it right – they set aside extra space for rail in the median when they built their freeways. (This is why NW Sydney is such a disaster – the State refused to do the needed corridor preservation when developments were approved.)
Regardless of whether road or rail is the answer, most of the successful transport projects delivered in recent years were in corridors preserved years or even decades earlier. Eg Perth Mandurah rail, EastLink (corridor preserved in the 50s!), Brisbane SET Busway (spare freeway corridor) and M7. Even the Adelaide O Bahn was built in an intended freeway corridor.
Of course underground rail may be needed in the CBD, but that is only a small part of the network. Tunneling costs at least $200 million/km for twin tube road or rail. Most of our cities have rail networks of over 100 track km. Putting them all underground is very costly. There is no gain in capacity, and accessibility is reduced.
#4028 Er, no significance in Penny’s ‘green’ lightshade. They just used to be mostly that colour in the old days, from memory
No surprise here given what we know of our resident dolphin. Dolphins are ranked number 1 as the most promiscuous animal.
We probably won’t be hearing much from Finns because he no doubt has a very full Valentine’s Day calendar.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/13/the-most-promiscuous-anim_n_450017.html?slidenumber=%2Bnb7qg1uCSQ%3D&slideshow#slide_image
Let’s see. Altona is in Victoria and Bligh is in Qld. Hmm. No head need be scatched. Two different places with different sets of circumstances. No head scratching needed, bob/Peter, which ever personality it is.
OH said,”If Howard was still in an event like this would never have taken place”
He don’t talk much about politics but he comes out with a gem now and then.]
He sounds exactly like mine. And he’s right about Howard. How can we ever forget that awful World Cup ceremony when the Poms won the rugby and Howard glumly made the presentation. I felt embarrassed to be an Aussie that night. I’ll see if the match is on Fox this week. Have just had the footy channels switched back on for the season.
After Insiders’ bashing of the ‘fake’ Rudd I needed your comment and also Frank’s youtube link of the WA Telethon. Kev is very natural when meeting people. It’s just the ‘fake’ journalists that he likes to keep away from and I don’t blame him.
When was the last time they wrote a piece about anything good that’s being done. It’s easier to write the Oppn lines I guess.
Dio
Sorry for the diatribe above. IS houdl have said we need to overhaul our rail systems with european standards of track geometry, signalling, rolling stock and frequency to move large amounts of people, similar ot the best European and Asian systems. Undergrounding should only be done at the terminal points in the CBD. For the best examples of PT systems, don’t go to London or Paris. Look at places like Munich, Vienna, Strasbourg, Toronto or Singapore.
Finns
A very Happy Chinese New Year to you too!
You got a great set of pegs there, you put the “Tap Dogs” to shame with your dancing
I even saw your pole in the corner!
It’s good to know you’re the conspiracy theory nut here and not me Peter (or is it bob?).
Socrates@4034:
How would you rate Montreal? When I was there more than forty years ago it was great.
Socrates
I was particularly wondering about underground for the city square mile and perhaps North Adelaide but at $200M per km it looks too expensive. If we want to build up the city centre for apartments and avoid sprawl, it would be something to look at as the inexpensive land around the south western CBD could become more attractive with an underground.
Gary Bruce –
Yep, bob1234 and Peter are one and the same person.
BH
Austar sports had a replay after the game finished on 9.
OH watched it as he had been watching the Waratahs when it was on 9
They only showed the game, no Anthem, no Rudd interview
Proof. An admission.
I have a feeling this Labor Government maybe a 1 1/2 term wonder like the Whitlam Government.
Gary Bruce
Rely on that alleged “admission” at your own peril.
Brilliant, so brilliant, that Godwin might even give it a run.
ie Labor will win the next election.
Gary
There’s just enough room in stfu for a pair of trolls
In summary- it seems the only actual news from today is Rudd negotiating with the Greens over the CPRS. The rest is just distractions.
Castle –
Are you stating what I said is false or a lie ?
Thanks Vera – switched on today so missed it.
BTW – just read a comment that Ch9 was going to make announcement today tht would rock the Rudd Govt. – did they?
Oh Vera, do you really want to deprive an old bloke of his Sunday morning fishing?
Go Gazza
Reel the little blighters in
BH – Thank you.
Vera,
I’m delighted that your report on the Indigenous Stars vs. NRL Stars game was very close to my posts here in PB while the game was in progress. It was of the most enjoyable Rugby League “Community” events I can recall, not to mention a real cracker of a game.
Of course, this wasn’t worthy of a mention on “Insiders” this morning, as they wouldn’t want anything to detract from their meme that “Rudd has lost the ability to communicate with ordinary people” and that he’s “burnt out” from micromanaging all his ministers.
BH
Someone scanned the Hearald earlier and all they could come up with was a story that Conway went skiing with Stoke of channel 7 when he was on hols in Canada!
Where did you see that BH?
I don’t know if this has been posted earlier, but this might be of interest, an article by Tim Gartrell:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/tony-abbott-brings-back-the-biff/story-e6frezz0-1225829994412
Who won?
delusional, py? pas moi. the pb-ers clearly do not trust you. there is no illusion about that.
Looks like Bill Gates might save the world. He’s going to invest in “nuclear batteries” which are similar to IFRs and use depleted uranium to power them. Thankfully we have someone who is capable of forward thinking because we aren’t going to get it from poll-driven politicians who can’t see beyond the next election.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/12/bill.gates.clean.energy/?hpt=T2
Gary & BH
It was said on last nights news too aparently
This is all we could find
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/veil-of-secrey-surrounds-stephen-conroy-and-kerry-stokes-meeting/story-e6frf7jo-1225830058701
Indigenous All-Stars 15, NRL Stars 12
oops 16-12
It seems NSW Fire Service fears that problems with bullying and sexual assault still exist in the workplace.
Abused firefighters urged to come forward
I find that hard to believe
Briefly
What you are really saying is that you do not trust me. That is fine…I wouldn’t expect you to do so.
As for others – they can make up their own minds.
Well if that’s it, it is a bit of a fizzer Vera.
Hemingway
I liked how the Aboriginal boys had all done some artwork on a didgeridoo during the week’s training and presented it to Darren Lockyer and his team after the game.
Nice touch, what reconciliation is all about
The reality is beginning to dawn on me from PB posts this morning about the All-Star game that most PB’ers don’t check posts from the previous evening. Ah, life is one long, unbroken education process, so thank heavens my “Barnabyish” and “Joycean” learning curve won’t bring down any school’s ranking on the “My School” League table!
Gary
Typical of the media, big headline just for the shock value, then no substance
Vera,
Thanks for bringing that up about the didgeridoo. I admit to being salty-eyed when Campbell presented it to Lockyer, two of the finest men ever to play the game.
Hemingway
I read your posts from last night, liked your comments on the game muchly.
jv
Perhaps Penny Wong was in Adelaide to negotiate with Mr X.
PY,
I reckon your comments are reasonably coherent, or at least entertaining. However, when it comes to trusting, the first image which springs to mind is that of the large sandstone rock formation in the southern part of the Northern Territory, specifically in relation to how far it could be thrown.
Vera,
Thank you kindly. And the same goes back at ya!
Gary
In the absence of any evidence that Conroy received hospitality from Stokes which he did not declare, that story is way lamer than a fizzer. It’s a complete non-event.
Socrates #4005
Funding-wise, Brisbane’s current traffic mess is a joint BCC, state gov & fed gov one. Ditto who’s responsible for what parts of the mess! You can’t have done much mingling with Briz locals if you don’t know that – or you don’t know the following:
BTW: Most Bris road/ tunnel/ bridge construction (as on the WaterGrid) is 24/7
1. Much of the current congestion is caused by Liberal Lord Mayor Cam Newman’s tunnel-building & roadworks – as every Brisbanite knows. Frustrating, yes; but LM “Cando”, who’s a good showman, has turned his mess into local tour stops – Open Weekend in Clem7 tunnel & the like. Sure there have been a heap of complaints re dust, noise etc; but against The [Liberal] Council And Brisbanites can also rattle off completion dates – most well ahead of schedule. Yes, it’s crook; but … What comes after “but” does not cheer Cam’s ALP-Opposition’s heart.
2. According to both ALP & LNP re Election 2009 (I’m told by reliable sources), Anna Bligh’s share of the mess (then inc. the water grid – her pet project now finished) is what got her “over the line” last election. As for current snafus, Yes, they’re crook; but … What comes after “but” does not cheer the State Opposition’s heart.
3. Some of the chaos is also Federal, esp the Ipswich Motorway – much promised but never delivered by one, John Howard. Most of it will be finished by the end of the year. With Brisbanite Mother, son, siblings etc we travel the IM regularly. Before the latest diversion (round the back of Booval etc) it was already faster than in 2007 (once-nightmarish Mt Ommaney intersection is almost finished).
Also Fed/?joint with state) is Airport Link, removing the old Hamilton Rd-Nudgee Rd gridlock. Currently, because it is 24/7 construction, it’s Whinge Centra: Dust & Noise (locals on TV last night).
Oh, and there’s the Gateway (Bris R) & Houghton (Pine R; Bris-Redcliffe) bridge duplication – won’t improve traffic much until refurbishment of the old bridges is finished.
So, Socrates,
why not arrange a tour of Cam’s Tunnels with City Hall – interstate/ international “fact finders” have been crawling over them since day 1. Book another with the State Minister’s office – interstate/ … Another with the Feds – interstate … You could then write the lot off on tax; maybe even get invites to the Grand Openings – seriously plural! (more tax write-offs). Perhaps get a Guest Spot at relevant conferences … (Yep! Remember “Fact finding/ conf” drill well!)
Garry it was a comment a few pages back (78 I think) that at the end of Ch9 news last night they said something big was in store for tomorrow.
If it was the Stokes/Conroy story I’m surprised. Are they like Prissie Pyne and don’t want to comment on getting all that money. I noticed he piked answering whether he agreed the TV stations should get the money. So instead of $2bill in advertising Rudd gives them a handout by reducing licensing fees – $250mill. is a long way from Howard’s advertising budget.
I wonder what Ch 9s audience was for that AllStars match. As someone said – not a mention today on Insiders except for Pyne saying they’d broken promises on indigenous intervention.
Diogenes
Of course. I that case she is provisionally excused. I think it would be difficult for X to vote against a deal that is for temporary fixed price followed by a target in line with the science combined with what other nations have done by then, despite some of the things he has said.
Wong’s in Adelaide for a “Green” conference that starts tomorrow, co-hosted by Rann.
Dio wrote :
True. But thats not the point.
The point is the election campaign is off and running and the aim is to throw as much mud as possible and hope like hell it sticks. Right out of the Limited News playbook and that of the other msm outlets.
Get ready for more China bashing stories!
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/more-flights-between-china-and-australia-20100214-nyw5.html
Geez – the NSW Parliament website:-
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/
seems to be down. I can’t access it = so it might only be my connection.
On the other hand it might be part of a larger conspiracy to bring down parliamentary websites.
How can Barnaby now bash China when his favourite bank account and transport provider, Clive Palmer, is holding hands with China?
Nup, it’s down Peter. You really have to do something about that conspiracy phobia.
Does anyone recall what Cassidy said about this earlier today ? He said -
Implied answer – *Because they just got a huge benefit from the government*
Truth Hurting -
I know from the wilds of Townsville it might have seemed oh so funny to re-write that Oils song. Because, you know, Garrett was in Midnight Oil, and he is also the current Minister for the Environment. Yeah, I can see how clever you must have thoguht you were particulalrly when you landed on “Beds were Burning”. It really writes itself, doesn’t it.
But let me just say this clearly and unequivocably – you are a turd for making light of the fact people died. And Tony Abbott is a turd for trying to make political milage out of it. I feel certain that both of you are on a “Highway To Hell” – literally.
dave
It’s fair to ask questions about the deal of cutting $250M from the license fee without writing in a clause mandating extra Australian content but the skiing thing is a load of crap. Everyone is concentrating on the wrong bit.
what a cheek their ABC goons have!
I wonder about all the soft interviews and questions not asked of the Libs interviewed on their ABC!
Gary Bruce
Is there a Conspiracy Phobia Anonymous organisation? If you are currently attending, would you recommend going to their meetings ?
I think they have a minimum age of 18 before you can attend so you would need to wait a few years…
And everyone seems to forget the switch to digital tv. which is the main reason for the reduction in the fee.
Obviously to increase the import of lethal Chinese batts.
Abbotts hospital policy, public hospital to get management board
Only for NSW and QLD though
Sounds like more money wasted on bureaucracy to me
What do you think Diog?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-unveils-coalition-hospitals-plan-20100214-nyzy.html
Palmer was interviewed by Weekend AFR.
Couple of good bits :
Why did you call your project *China First* ?
What a guy. Not.
AFR reports him a *genuine* maverick, *delightfully frank exchanges without polish or focus*.
Furking hypocrite more likely.
Vera #4024
After last week’s Q&A, I’d say today’s MSM would ignore it, but the blog/ Social networking spheres will be positive. Monday’s MSM, however, is likely to report how he can’t communicate with Indigenous people/ footballers/ etc and how insulting/ patronising he was. Either that or, as the MSM (minus SBS & some ABC) assumes a White, predominantly European audience, will just pretend it didn’t happen.
This could be the reason for Abbott’s hasty hospital “policy”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/reforms-loom-as-sick-aussies-send-health-bill-soaring-20100213-nynk.html
Ozpol
I reckon the audience for the footy 9including Kev’s interview) would be thousands of times greater than for the Insiders or other curent affairs shows.
Kev ain’t stupid, he knows where to go to address the average Aussie face to face
Vera
You see – you can’t blame working journalists for being lazy anymore.
Josh Gordon clearly wrote that article after a lot of independent research.
Nooooo. not you, nooooooo.
Could happen to annnnyone.
Though I like TTFAB better, anybody who sees/ doesn’t see the missing n is seeing not seeing things.
I have a post up on the Queensland Galaxy poll.
Geez, ruawake #4091
You wouldn’t be trying to let honesty & the facts get in the way of a Green/Tory conspiracy theory, would you?
Spoil Sport!
vera
I mentioned this last night with OPT. Health continually reinvents the wheel and goes through cycles of centralisation and decentralisation endlessly. If you stand back and watch, you will see every model fail. In SA, we’re about to shift back to hospital boards and get rid of regional health areas the same as Abbott’s plan.
These models are really just ways of bureaucrats occupying their time. They don’t actually do anything.
ru
Why is the license fee less because of the switch to digital?
Because the analog tv signal starts getting turned off in June, it costs TV stations money for new transmission equipment.
The rodent known as Glenn Milne can smell blood…
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/prime-minister-kevin-rudd-ignored-safety-plea/story-e6frf7jo-1225830145238
I could not help noticing on “impliers” this morning that for all the time that bloke in the middle, Mather i think, was as stable as a rock but, when he trotted out his little skite sheet to enable him to get his liNes right, his fingers and hands were trembling like he had a massive dose of Parkinsons.
Maybe he was afraid his liNes may not come out properly.
Would that be normal Dio that you can talk normally without any problems but when you have to read the liNes from the skite sheet your hands and fingers really tremble?
For some reason i just thought he was fearing he may be caught out telling his liNes.
Earth wires do not “short”.
What is so remarkable about post 3885 is that in “retyping” (oh that is sooo good) the passage only one character out of 177 was missed.
And so much more remarkable that missing character, missed in the retyping (chortle chortle) alters the context of the whole sentence.
What are the odds, go buy yourself a lottery ticket young man, or get your mum to if you are under 18.
but isnt the qld election some two years away
Troofies has, he is not from this planet.
Actually you can make them “Live” which is more dangerous than a short.
A short will throw out the safety switch or fuse, but a “live” Earth wire often won’t, in which case every single device in the house can become “electricified”.
Castle – thats the best he could come up with in the 8 hours or so he had.
i note u say that msm dont like rudd. I can never work out why?
can some one enlighten me. I would of thought if they want to sell papers to us
lot with Mr. Rudd rating high it would be could to praise all thing labor.
then more papers would be sold
Its a bit like ones footy team you like to read how well your team is going
so then you sell more newspapers. ?
Castle
“retyping”
LOL
Take it from a veteran of numerous NSW TAFE Department centralisation/decentralisation restructures that a prime motivation is to create even more promotion opportunities, which is why careerist bureaucrats (is there any other kind?) love them.
well what was the ch 9 announcement.
William, thetruthhurts keeps posting his very offensive “parody” song. Could you please remove the post. I think the families of the dead deserve to be treated better than having their deaths used for “parody” and cheap political point scoring. I find it dificult to imagine anything more disrespectful and offensive, short of dancing on their graves. Thank you.
Someone should make a Hitler video of this one.
Henchman pointing at map: “Sir the latest Galaxy Poll has come in from Queensland, it shows we are down in support from the last poll, with the Liberals increasing their lead”
Hitler: “Oh… yes, that doesn’t matter it’s only 2 years away we’ll make it up over that time”
Henchamn looking nervous: “My Fuhrer….. Sir…. the polls show you going into a nose dive and the opposition are now 10% TPP ahead of you, and a bloke no one has heard of is now preferred Premier”
Hitler: “Everyone thats not voting Labor next Queensland State Election, please leave the room”
*95% of people in Room walks out*
Hitler: “How could this have happened! I went on a god damn cooking show for christ sakes, and these ungrateful bastards want to vote me out!”
Memo to Milne: If Mr Fuller really wanted something done about workplace safety, he should have written to the state minister responsible for workplace safety. Mr Milne, please pass this on to Mr Fuller, urgently. Mr Fuller may also wish to hire some quality lawyers and start suing his son’s boss. Unless, of course, his son was his own boss. The son’s badly injured girlfriend may well have a case against the son’s estate, unless she had appropriate training to be in a dangerous workplace. Memo to Milne: ‘Good investigative journalists check these sorts of things out.’
Milne claims the letter was ‘dated’ 6 February. Question to Milne: “When was it ‘posted’?”
Rudd’s Office claims it was received on 10 February. This is verifiable. That is to say, some time last Wednesday. That would leave about two and a half working days for the PM drop everything else involved in running a country in order to reply to a letter which was addressed to the wrong person. The normal procedure would be for the PM’s office to refer the letter to the state ministers with responsibility for workplace safety.
Memo to Milne: The PM receives several tens of thousands of letters a year many from people who are certifiable and many who haven’t a clue about the division of federal/state responsibilities.
So, Mr Milne, Rudd ‘ignored a direct plea’ did he? I have a question for you Mr Milne, ‘How much do they pay you per paragraph inch of absolute crap?’
in today’s Australian newspaper says the Coalition leads Labor in the primary vote standings for the first time since the election.
The poll shows the Coalition’s primary vote at 41 per cent to Labor’s 40 per cent.
After preferences, Labor leads 52 per cent to 48, a narrower margin than the 6 per cent gap a fortnight ago.
Kevin Rudd leads Tony Abbott as the preferred prime minister by 58 per cent to 26 per cent.
The Opposition will see the poll boost as a good prelude to Mr Abbott’s unveiling of his climate change policy.
They’ll keep up trying to blame Rudd and Garrett for the deaths. It’s all crap.
well is this the channel nine announcement,. funny if you have apoll over weekends.
friday sat sun usually how can it turn up to day.and note the pref pm. is no difference and what about the margin for error.
and what about the other polls where is william Help
do you think this is to do with the installation.
4121 – An old article, my say.
is it did i get on to teh wrong page.
4119 – Whatever you’re taking HTT you need to stop. The hallucinations are dramatic and worrying.
#4117 – Very well then. No more parody please, TTH.
my say, that is referring to the last Newspoll nearly two week’s ago. Abbott has already released his CC policy (for want of a better title).
o thank god for that i need my wrists slapped.
to nervous to type , we are going out to night and they are liberals and i just thought i would find and excuse not to go,, well i will
cream the cheese cake after all.
silly me sorry crew how did i do that. i googled the abc news now i have read i see yes.
suppose i am sacked, but i am like vera i panic.
well what is the chanel
9 announcement do you think. I dont want to be caught
dinning with liberals before i go.
is it the conroy thing is the letter re the insallation. ???
Let me guess…. your a Labor Voter.
Pathetic.
My say
The LTD News rags like to do funny things with facts.
Jokers one and all
Quantum will do his bit of respect for the families of lost ones by voting Labor at the next federal election no doubt.
so you dont think there is any thing new.
i think you should all just ignore truthhurts then they cannot bite back
Ratsars @ 3705
What is misleading is the spin by Labor that it is abolishing the ABCC. It is abolishing it in name only.
The Building and Construction Industry Improvement Amendment (Transition to Fair Work) Bill 2009 which was Introduced into the HoR on 17 June amends the Building and Construction Industry Improvement (BCII) Act 2005.
These current amendments to the BCII Act will transfer the coercive powers given to the ABCC by the Howard Coalition government to a new inspectorate established within Fair Work Australia (FWA). The power to prosecute and compulsorily obtain information and documents from relevant parties will be retained. Most of the ABCC’s draconian powers, including imposition of fines and mandatory jail sentences for non-cooperation, will also be transferred.
The Bill provides for a six-month jail sentence as the penalty for failing to submit to an “examination notice” issued by the inspectorate (the same penalty imposed for breaches of the Howard-era legislation). Examination notices issued by the FWA can compel workers or union officials to provide documents, attend interrogations and answer questions and take an oath of affirmation if required to do so. The new legislation allows a court to impose a fine of $3300 for individuals (or five times that for incorporated bodies) in addition to, or instead of, a jail sentence for breaches of the legislation.
In a speech to the HoR on 17 June, 2009 during the Bill’s second reading, Julia Gillard argued for the retention of the coercive interrogation powers in regard to the building and construction industry. Labor accepts that separate legislation for a specific industry sector needs to remain in force.
http://www.deewr.gov.au/Ministers/Gillard/Media/Speeches/Pages/Article_090617_112100.aspx
On 18 June 2009, the Senate referred the provisions of the bill to the Senate Standing Legislation Committee on Education, Employment and Workplace Relations. Its report was published o 10 September 2009.
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/eet_ctte/abcc/report/index.htm
A minority report was written by the Greens Party. In which it recommended the Goverment withdraw the Bill and reintroduce a Bill to repeal the BCII Act, abolish the ABCC while maintaining the role of the Federal Safety Commissioner.
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/eet_ctte/abcc/report/d02.htm
The Combined Construction Unions (UCC), ACTU and the Greens Party amongst others argue that the construction industry should fall under the general laws which apply to the rest of the workforce because the bill does not, and has never, dealt with criminal conduct. The target is industrial conduct.
It is indeed welcome that some safeguards will be implemented. These safeguards include the right of a worker interrogated under the inspectorate’s coercive powers to be accompanied by a legal representative.
However, the retention of the coercive powers discriminates against building workers and breaches their civil rights. Labor is supporting legislation that essentially embodies the principle that some workers are not equal before the law.
I love it…. I criticise the government for the deaths of innocent Australians, and because some Labor voters don’t like me putting heat on their GOVERNMENT, they claim I’m the one disrespecting the families.
Christ, I’ve entered the twilight zone.
As to whats worse than making a parody song about the governments stuff up’s, I would think revoting them back in would be the biggest disrespect to their families, worse than dancing on their graves.
does any one know who the new directors are going to be at the abc
and when do the Howard appointees retire
Castle
Stop skirting around the issue. Have the guts to say, like the other fools on here that I deliberately typed it that way.
Yesterday afternoon someone said they had seen a mention on the melbourne herald-Sun website about something sensational would be in todays paper that would *rock the rudd government* or words to that effect.
*Apparently* the *thing* is the fee reduction business for commercial tv stations and conroys skiing with Channel 7 owner.
I think that is being confused with CH 9.
So lets just see how the media try and spin this.
thanks dave sound like a non issue. The voters take very little notice of things like that i believe.
I had friend say to me recently do you take notice of news stories , said she could not care less, just worries about her family. I wish i was like that too, of course family comes first. But i wish i could just shelve the others stuff. I think I disliked Howard so much it became a thing with me. Glad when this year is over.
I checked this weeks South Australian Government Gazette. No proclamation in their that exempts the internet from the Atkinson Electoral Act as yet. Clealy either he hasn’t had time to put pen to paper as yet or the issuing of the writs for the SA election is a far way off.
PY……
Patently, they have. I couldn’t care less about the things you say one way or the other. I skip them for the most part.
my say
ABC Directors…2 out of 8 current directors appointed by current government. Directors have 5 year terms, commencing as per table below, so 2 new ones this year and 3 next (retyped from the ABC web site, so hopefully no typos!)…
Mr Maurice Newman AC 1 Jan 2007
Ms Janet Albrechtsen 24 Feb 2005
Mr Steven Skala 6 Oct 2005
Mr Peter Hurley 14 Jun 2006
Mr Keith Windschuttle 14 Jun 2006
Mr Mark Scott 5 Jul 2006
Dr Julianne Schultz AM 27 Mar 2009
Mr Michael Lynch CBE, AM 27 Mar 2009
Only because you choose to be here and because of whatever it is you’re on.
Ah Ha
So the next phase will be to attack “faceless bureaucrats”
How original Tone
Boerwar
Most people would have apoplexy, I think, if they knew what really happened to their letters to Ministers.
Especially those that think the Minister is going to read their letter, link to the web site they’ve suggested, have an epiphany and immediately change Government policy. Somewhere, deep in the bowels of the Public Circus, a low to mid level drone will roll their eyes and groan before trotting out the standard responses. If the drones are lucky, it will be worth a bit of a laugh with their fellow drones.
Not saying that happens in all cases, and certainly not suggesting that is the case for the letter Milne is referring to. Some letters can create panic and a sense of crisis in a Ministers office. Most of the time, the same drone still gets the job of preparing the response. This time though, there will be no time to roll eyes or have a giggle.
Briefly
Congratulations on your ability to divine the thoughts of “them”.
Next you will be challenging “god” as the supreme ruler.
Of course – that’s if you believe in that fairy tale.
There is no reason that anyone should be killed by electricity in a domestic setting. Earth leakage circuit breakers and residual current devices (safety switches) should prevent virtually all deaths by electrocution.
vera #4093
Don’t know about Diog; but I think it shows Abbott knows F* all about the Q “Centres, adjuncts & Base Hospital” systems!
I posted on this at length yesterday – and that’s from personal experience & observation Let me add that Brisbane’s & adjuncts (inc Toowoomba) cancer treatment (with which I am much too sadly familiar) is Internationally recognised as one of the world’s best “cutting edge” centres. (OK, this one’s “at even greater length”; but it’s referenced to the most credible of sources! This is the truth the Courier Mail, & Mrs CM Ed Madonna King ignore, because they don’t want you to know!)
To help you cut through party-political & MSM spin, misrepresentation & lies, I’ve linked you to some (but not all) of the top Cancer research, treatment & surgery centres. These are generic centres They co-operate: share facilities, equipment, personnel, expertise etc (“bump” patients if necessary) – all private hospitals involved have public patients & attract federal & state, funding.
It might also help explain one (of several) important reasons there’s such a high & continuing influx of Interstate “migrants” to SEQ – its hospitals, public & private!
Each hospital has its separate management committee – the vertical structure – but Centre structures also provide a horizontal structure. If Abbott gets his “let’s all go back to where hospitals were a generation or two ago” way, he will threaten the very close “horizontal structures” that have developed in the almost 2 decades since Q Boards were abolished. Cancer’s only the area I know reasonable well; neurological surgery & transplant surgery somewhat.
Re neurological research & surgery: UQ hosts Queensland brain Institute Hospital-based centres are at Royal Brisbane (RBH) which is closely linked to Auckland (NZ) RBWH & Wesley.
Re Transplant surgery: Centres of High Quality Research: Brisbane
Qld was one of Australia’s & the world’s first renal transplant units <a href=http://www.nephrology.edu.au/researchopportunities/qld.asp
Re Cancer research & treatment:
1. It’s centred around several specialist research facilities in UQ & several Bris public & private hospitals. Diamantina Centre (PA-Public)
There’s this entry for B’ne hospitals & universities’ medical research:
Children’s Leukemia and Cancer Research Foundationis currently at Royal Brisbane – its International collaborators are listed at the page’s beginning; this is a WBP Foundation. It will move when the new Children’s hospital is built on the Mater site
UQ is host to the Pharmacy Australia Centre of Excellence (PACE) Australia’s leading facility for pharmaceutical research, education and drug commercialization, while Griffith University partners with global giants AstaZeneca and Pfizer in the natural drug discovery arena. The world’s largest agribusiness company, Swissbased Syngenta, chose Queensland University of Technology (QUT) as its international partner in the commercial development of a sugar cane-based ethanol industry. This is the first time Syngenta has established a partnership of this type with an academic body.
Then there’s Queensland Centre for Gynaecological Cancer
The Wesley Hospital is renowned for its comprehensive cancer services with an emphasis on breast & prostate cancer, “including radiation oncology, chemotherapy, positron emission tomography, brachytherapy, inpatient palliative care and bone marrow transplantation” conducted within a context of “internal and external partnerships in care, teaching and research.”
Dr Peter Swindle, specialist unologist (works from the Mater and Wesley Hs) is one of those Cancer specialists in the Mater & its adjuncts. Other Mater research areas are Gynaecology Cancer Research Team
I’m sure most if not all other states have similarly brilliant medical research centres that make a mockery of the Liberal/ MSM meme that states can’t manage health care. In fact, the MSM focuses on “the black spots” (like Q’s Bundy) and ignores the rest, in the hope that gullible readers/ viewers will fall for the MSM line.
Q’s ex-Oppo leader (of “Let’s draw straws: fame) Dr Bruce Flegg and his “Doctors/ Western Suburbs” Liberal Faction might want to go back to the “good old days”of doctor-dominated HBs before Research Institutes & Researchers dominated leading hospital structures & treatment regimes; when private & public kept a seemly distance. But Abbott’s uninformed Brain-snap is a sure way to alienate all those stakeholders in Brisbane’s World Class University-Private & Public Hospital medical structures … and that’s a hellava lot of medical, patients & families votes!
Earth Hour will be held from 8.30pm on Saturday 27 March 2010.
” From a people’s movement established in Sydney in 2007, Earth Hour
has evolved into a global event, capturing the hopes of over one
billion people in 4,400 cities worldwide. Earth Hour demonstrates
people’s concern about global warming and their willingness to take
action to reduce its impacts “ Clover Moore MP said on Friday.
How?
Financial blackmail. Or tied federal funding.
Yep, and Abbott has form on financial blackmail.
Peter Young
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 12:53 am | Permalink
‘Watching how Labor backbenchers these days are mainly cyphers, appearing on the Parliamentary “doors” mouthing the LIES given to them by a flack from the Prime Minister’s office….’
Michelle Grattan, This is no fun camp: show underperformers to the door .
10 minutes pass , NO acusation made , NO corection by PY eithr
Ron
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 1:03 am | Permalink
Gus,
PY #3885 delib changed Grattans word ‘lines’ for “lies”
a FURTHER 10 minutes pass ( now 20 minutes hav passed ,
still NO corection by PY eithr , DESPITE PY changing “lines” to “lies”
Gusface
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 1:15 am | Permalink
PY #3885 delib changed Grattans word ‘lines’ for “lies”
then Dario at 1:16 am , accusing
then Frank at 1:21 am
then a further 21 minutes later ( and 39 minutes after I highlited his delib change:
THEN PY , FINALLY answers at 1:42 am
(with a correction ? No he does not !! , PY claims its all a lie !)
then a further 3 hours of PY spamming posts , still no correcton
th “TIME PERIODS” , espec both th first 20 min , and then th fist 39 minutes , then th 3 hours , without seeking to corect , is th KO punchs ,
th now unbeleive claim that PY transposed 28 words , instead of copy pasting , 2nd KO
th now unbelieveable PY just got one (th important one) of th 28 words wrong , 3rd KO
th now even MORE unbelievable PY claim that in transposing , he got JUST ONE letter wrong , one out 146 letters ,
and that that 1 of 146 by coincidense , changes Grattan’s whole meaning , 4th KO
Claiming pattheticaly 8 hrs later , you did not tell th truth because no one wuld believe you ,is precisely th defense of someone who took 8 hours to construct such a lie defense , for which th facts above expoze
“raise funds from private patients” very interesting. Is Tone proposing that people with private health insurance have to pay extra to attend a public hospital?
Even the LNP in Qld have walked away from this loopy idea.
Believe Labor is telling th Greens they better vote for 5% ETS linked to when world makes a deel ,
RATHER than Greens stupid CC polisy that DOES provide for only th same 5% cut till 2002 ( AS PER Garnauts own modeling)
till 2020
It will be very interesting what the auditors will discover when they audit the insulation.
There no doubt will be a few registered installers with a few serious questions to answer.
Insulation bloke; Have you had your roof insulated.
Owner; no mate
In; do you want the govt free insulation.
Own; yeah mate
Ins; tell ya what i’ll do, if you can put it in yourself i will drop the batts off and give you $200.00 to do it.
Ow; Mate i did it myself about 10 years ago.
Ins; well do you want to double up on it.
The brochure has no registered installers number and only mobile phone contact.
This is in Nth Qld.
The brochure is about to be scanned and forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
From Their ABC’s Facebook Page.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/ABC-News-Online/72924719987?ref=nf
Gaffhook
I didn’t see it but shaking hands would be a sign of increased sympathetic output for whatever reason. For most people it would be that they were nervous about reading with a big audience which is a very common phobia. Or they could be nervous about what they were reading out.
Why is Abbott only saying he’ll bring in the hospital boards in NSW and Qld but not in the other states?
Gaffhook
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 1:45 pm | Permalink
“Would that be normal Dio that you can talk normally without any problems but when you have to read the liNes from the skite sheet your hands and fingers really tremble?
For some reason i just thought he was fearing he may be caught out telling his liNes.”
use th K I S S principal when people lie ,
ruawake #4157
I don’t think Abbott has a bloody clue what he’s talking about.
Every Australian has a right to treatment in a public hospital. Anyone who ever paid the medibank/care levy (OH & I certainly did) has actually PAID for the right!
Q public hospitals have private facilities. Many private hospitals, with gov funding, have public sections. The lines are very blurred. IMO, as long as you don’t want to be alone, and the hospital is a teaching one, go public, especially in a “What the hell’s wrong with me?” type emergency You get the local version of Dr House’s diagnostic team. In Q, that’s always been the case!
Like all Q’ers, OH , in hospital recently, and with private health cover, HAD to be given a choice – forms & declarations provided for reading before making a choice. Since choice of private doctor & specialists for a specific purpose didn’t apply, OH chose public; but could have had a private room & facilities across the corridor, two doors down! These days, availability of diagnostic & treatment hardware etc is a significant factor.
So, given the above, what the bloody hell is Abbott talking about?
Maybe J-PL and O’Farrell were the only ones who agreed?
Cut federal funding to the States.
They either play ball, or get the bat.
He is regurgitating the LNP policy from the Qld election.
It was called something like “Public Hospital cost recovery initiative” The Borg said he could recoup $20 million per annum by charging private patients using public hospitals.
OPT and ru
My guess is that Abbott is trying to say public hospitals should encourage private patients to go there and use their private health insurance. People have been trying to do that for ages and it never works because
1. You don’t have to use your private insurance in a public hospital
2. If you get more private patients, you have less room for the public ones and waiting lists go up.
It’s a fancifully simplistic solution to a much more complicated problem.
I think current LNP Queensland policy is to sit back and watch Blight implode.
Seems to be working a treat.
Which really sums up the Liberal Party policy we have seen this year.
Yeah – they are in Opposition in a unicameral parliament for at least another two years.
Christ get over yourself.
Gloating about being in power “for x years” while being so far behind in the polls is pathetic. We should be able to do what they did in California and have a public iniated election.
The Sydney Morning Herald has been trying it’s hardest in NSW.
“Gloating about being in power “for x years”
you so prefer to “gloat” , from th oposition benchs
Even when your side is in power HTT?
Notice how conservatives want to change the rules when Labor is in power. As someone said “Christ get over yourself”.
Gary
how can “they get over themselves” ,
when they ar full of themslves
Nah, its called gloating.
Sure.
I don’t think Howard was ever 10% TPP behind though.
4178 – Good one Ron. LOL.
So is 10% the cut off point then? What determines an early election and who?
My Mistake.
Labor is actually 18% behind in Queensland.
At the moment, according to one poll. Do we call early elections on that criteria?
Blights got no chance at the next election.
The fuel subsidy cut and the rego increases have sealed her fate.
Now it’s just a waiting game, and the shitty thing is she did this right after being re-elected(the public should be able to sue for being misinformed at the last election)
Good one Ron.
Its always amused me how the coalition, *the born to rule mob* con so ‘too many’ blue collar workers and ‘some’ people from the bush that they care a fig for them.
Up to them of course, but just look what the libs do in power, who ends up with the treasure, the tax breaks etc and who is left with the shit sandwich.
If we are to be governered by opinion poll, no govt would ever make an unpopular decision. More simplistic crud from the supporter of the party of simplistic crud.
4185 – That wasn’t the question. Do I really need to ask it again? What determines an early election and who?
Don’t know what you are talking about, I voted Labor at the last federal election.
I did vote Libs at the last state election though cos I knew after 10 Years, the government would get compacent as they always do and screw over the punters… which surprise surprise… Blight did right after the election.
Diog
In Victoria, we already have local boards ‘running’ hospitals (I know, I’m on one) and have had since at least 2000 (a couple of years before that, but that’s when I was first appointed).
If local boards are the panacea to all that’s wrong with health, as TA seems to suggest, then I suppose Vic is way out there ahead of the rest of the states, by virtue of the wisdom and local knowledge people like myself bring to running hospitals.
(Tongue very firmly in cheek there…)
It’s a pity you’re not as good at answering questions as you are with the childish name calling.
Diogenes
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 4:33
“It’s (Abbott) a fancifully simplistic solution to a much more complicated problem.”
you hav complete missed Abbotts budgie wedgies
It IS th Liberal philosofy solution to a “complicated problem.”
th first very thin wedgie to Public Hospitals to “user pay”
Liberals prefer all Hospitals on th private enterprize system , user pays , for profit
Using medical logic on Abbott ? , a Liberal politcal extreme idealogue of free enterpise , a la workchoises , Public Hospitals fit th same thoughts
Rudd Pro-crastinates on hospitals.
Just bloody take over the hospitals already you lightweight! I’m sick of Labor taking the leftie soft touch way out of making hard decisions.
You said if the health system wasn’t fixed in 1 year you’d take over hospitals. Well it’s been 1 year and they are still a mess. Stop the bullshit… stop the Rot… do what you promised at the election and TAKE OVER THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM NOW!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/kevin-rudd-concedes-reform-for-health-system-is-urgent/story-e6frgczf-1225830213617
Now you’re channeling Peter Dutton, Rudd did not say he would fix the hospital system in 1 year.
Diogenes #4163
1. Because labor looks vulnerable in both states
2. He hasn’t done his “homework” (does he ever)
3. He’s spent too much time listening to Q Liberals like Bruce Flegg who, before being elected in 2004, had a very entrepreneurial approach the provision of medical services Bruce Flegg is Queensland’s richest politician
Dio, if you cast your mind back to early 2007, Howard Gov Minister Santo Santoro was forced to resign as Minister & MP Although his failure to “reveal all” in his pecuniary interests portfolio (and lying about it) was the shove off the end of the parliamentary plank, it was this conflict of interest Santoro shares in ‘interest’ companies that forced him onto it!
He was also involved in other dirty dealings with other Q Libs, inc Andrew Lamming Santo Santoro and the PM’s poor taste in friends But, most importantly, the stench of corruption hung over Santoro’s Liberal mate’s windfall & Egan wasn’t the only beneficiary.
Q Liberals do seem to have a very NeoCon very “entrepreneurial” approach to health services, especially where their own wealth is concerned. Santo was also virilently anti ABC, abortion, euthanasia etc. Interesting!
HTT – What determines an early election and who?
Notice how this question is being ignored. No answers HTT? Surprise, surprise, surprise. All verbal garbage and no solutions. No wonder you’ll vote for Abbott.
Ahh, good old Perth Now:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/
I read that one reason for the increased stress on the health system was due to changes brought about by Workchoices. Those reports quote increased visits to GP’s since ten years ago.
That is Workchoices made it almost mandatory or gave employers power demand workers to have a medical certificate for even one day sick leave.
Previously one day crook would see you back at work next day, now with hassle and expense seeing doc more often than not turns to two.
And I didn’t say he’d fix it by 1 Year, so you are putting words in my mouth.
I said… and very clearly, he would take over the hospital system within 1 year if it wasn’t fixed.
And heres the election promise folks, Labor Hacks hold onto your seats:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/23/2012915.htm
Queue bullshit excuses and lies from the Labor brigade.
So Vic has local hospital boards, SA is going to bring them back after the election (although Labor hasn’t announced it yet and the Libs will if they win). What is the story in WA?
HTT – What determines an early election and who?
castle
It worse than that, your comment made me think of the number of forms I have had to get filled out by my GP.
Centrelink treating Doc reports, Superannuation, Disabled Parking … etc etc.
Then if you want to scuba dive, you need a form from your GP, fly a ‘plane the same. Its never ending.
Hey Truthy where does he say he will fix hospitals in a year?
Which system do you believe is best for patients Dio ?
If I had my way it would be left up to me….
Where doesn’t it say he would have a national take over if they weren’t fixed by now.
Stop the spin mate, i’m not buying into it.
It doesn’t, the fix bit is a Dutton invention, usually spruiked in a press conference where a leadership crisis is occurring in the Liberal Party.
Truthy, you yourself provided the Rudd quote, and it’s clear that he didn’t say “if they weren’t fixed by now.” He said “if state and territory governments have not agreed to a national reform plan.” No-one ever suggested the hospitals could be “fixed” in two years. So stop making things up.
Thats bullshit. He said quite clearly he would take over the public hospital system is it wasn’t fixed by the states now.
He hasn’t taken over the public hospital system so i’ll rack this one up as another broken election promise.
Dolt.
Where and when did he say that? Quotation please.
Kevin Rudd 2007:
Game. Set. Match
I’ll raise you a dolt, for an idiot. You are just confirming your incoherence.
Rubbish. Are you really this stupid? “Yield that sort of outcome co-operative with the states” means the same thing as “if state and territory governments have not agreed to a national reform plan.” And in fact that quote shows he specifically said he would NOT take over the hospitals in this term. He said he would “ask the Australian people for a mandate” to do so. That means either another election or a referendum.
TheTruthHurts #4173
1. This isn’t the USA, it’s Australia. Why not emigrate? I’d recommend Montana.
2. It’s Citizens Electoral Council of Australia policy – Proponents of the LaRouche movement fighting for peace through economic development! http://www.cecaust.com.au/ I enjoy checking TTH’s Obama posts against Lyndon’s latest rants!
Goes with those on other charming websites like Australian Identity aka Australians Against Further Immigration You can catch up with the latest “Illegal immigrant” rants on http://australianidentity.net/index.php?action=search2 There’s even a new one on Insulation deaths, starting on What you get when you elect a pop star to parliament
But for the Medium of the Week Award, it’s hard to beat the Australian League of Right’s
And here I was thinking it was Valentine’s Day, Feduary 14! I’ve lost 5 whole days!
A-bloody-mazing!
A rhetorical question, Psephos. It is TTH after all.
Now I can understand Bobs frustration with the “hacks”.
This is pathetic. He made an election promise for a federal takeover if the hospitals weren’t fixed by mid 2009, now we have all the hacks in here saying thats not what he really meant.
BULLSHIT!
Truthy thats the entire point – he did not. You may believe he did in your cesspit, but again he did not.
TTH
You are wrong again big time and you simply won’t admit it. You can’t seriously suggest that the quote from Rudd supports your claims of a broken promise. If you think that then run your logic past any 12 year old and maybe they can get you to see where you’ve got it wrong. If that doesn’t work you are simply too dumb to comprehend.
Well he did. Thats a fact.
I know you have problems handling that fact, but it’s still a fact.
In the next couple of week Rudd and Roxon will announce their new Health Policy – Abbott knows this, that is why he spouted his “policy”.
Rudd and Roxon have visited over 100 hospitals, listened to their views. That is why Rudd was beaming in QT about Health questions.
Sorry Tone hospital boards is yesterday’s policy.
OK simple exercise – find a quote. Fool.
TheTruthHurts #4211
And John Howard promised the Australia people he would “never never? introduce a GST. Why, even members of his own government called him, “The Lying Rodent”. Yes, you can google both.
Now go ahead & tell me that what Howard did in 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004, 2007 is irrelevant! Except, of course, his anti Boat people policies. Which you want Rudd to reinstate & implement.
You are such a hypocrite!
ruawake@4222
Oh and include a link, lest you don’t want to be caught out telling untruths like YMP and his creative “typing” skills.
That’s just a deliberate and obvious LIE, as you have proved by failing to provide a quote where he said any such thing. Do you really think you are achieving anything by telling such pathetic and obvious lies?
WOW!!! Blow me down! That’ll fix the health system!
A visit!
I clicked on one of these links provided by Tim Dunlop and was surprised to see that the Libs are still singing of the same song sheet as they were in early 2007.
This is a good read. Same strategy; Rudd is the key to Labor’s success, knock out Rudd and government will fall straight back in to the hands of its rightful owners.
This bit was illuminating though. They were in total disbelief that they were going to be thrown out, and in a lot of respects they still haven’t come to grips with it!
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rudd-attacks-legitimate/2007/03/14/1173722539541.html
And then he took a GST mandate to the next election.
Much like Rudd took his Hospital Takeover mandate to the 2007 election.
Now where the hell is the take over happening?
Hey I agree with Paul Lucas for once.
OzPol,
Clearly, Alaska, the home of Sarah Palin, would be the most appropriate state for TTH to emigrate. There’s an eerie similarity between Palin’s and TTH’s powers of expression.
Scorps,
Could you please let me know where you found Tim Dunlop? I have great respect for him from his “Blogocracy” days, when he was a rare voice of sanity on the News.Ltd. website.
At least Tony Abbott is running true to form.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/abbott-sinks-to-a-new-low/2007/03/14/1173722525843.html
How many Rudd visits will the Townsville Hospital need before it’s fixed by the way?
RON – #4156
Bull crap.
You tell me Truthy, what’s wrong with the Townsville Hospital?
Christ these forums could send a man to drink…
TheTruthHurts #4209
TheTruthHurts #4220
No it bloody well does NOT! And it IS NOT! YOU”RE he ine who has difficulty with the truth.
This is what he said 23 August 2007!
$2 billion National Health Reform Plan over four years to improve Australia’s health system and ensure better health services for patients in hospitals
Let me repeat:a Rudd Labor Government [would] seek to take financial control of Australia’s 750 public hospitals if State and Territory Governments have not begun implementing an agreed National Health Reform Plan
That’s it. No “Taking over Public Hospitals”, BUT “financial control” of them. And only “if” they “have not begun” “an agreed” … “National Health Reform Plan”
THAT’S ALL!
Suck it up, Sweetie Pie!
Hemingway,
I think all his blog pages are still accessible on the News Ltd web site. I picked that one up from a Crikey link by OzPol Tragic on the previous page.
http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/shares/
It may well be that there will be some “very” useful information and links on Tim’s many, many blog postings.
I think one can say with some confidence that TTH is not a swinging voter.
You spoken to that 12 year old yet or are you still deluded?
It’s not within Rudd’s power to “fix” the Townsville or any other public hospital. Hospitals are run by the states. That’s the whole point of this debate – should the federal government take over the public hospitals? That would require either a referral of powers by the states or a referendum. What Rudd is doing is negotiating with the states for a program to fix the problems in the hospitals. He has said repeatedly that if a satisfactory agreement isn’t reached, he will seek a mandate for a federal takeover. A “mandate” means either an election or a referendum.
Does the Liberal party support a takeover? Would the Liberals support a referendum? I don’t know and I doubt they know either.
The only thing about him that swings is his peanut-sized brain under his 10 gallon hat.
Frank Calabrese…
Your statement is utter bull crap.
PY,
No one takes you seriously.
Caught telling lines and a late, reluctant and qualified apology.
Next you’ll be saying it was your dog that done it.
Being a true blue mallee boy ( the only true Australians according to TTH) I can say with some confidence that TTH represents a real demographic, the demographic that votes for Pauline Hansen, the demographic that has moved from undecided to Liberal now that a moron is the Liberal leader.
If your interested in politics don’t call him names try to understand his prejudice and miss conceptions. My view is the only solution is a bit of travel, but I have met examples that managed to travel the world and learn nothing.
And I for one will be willing to believe that. From the sounds of it Kristina is much smarter than Peter.
New thread. I would be pleased if the current bout of name-calling does not continue over into it.