In the event that we do face an election sooner rather than later, one difficulty Labor will have to factor in is what looks like an unfavourable redistribution in Victoria, draft boundaries of which were released during the election campaign. Despite the fact that the number of electorates in the state has not changed, the redistribution commissioners propose a radical overhaul that will abolish the rural electorate of Murray and create the new electorate of Burke in Melbourne’s northern outskirts. While this involves the abolition of a safe Liberal seat and the creation of a new one with a notional Labor margin of 10.8 per cent (as calculated by Antony Green on the basis of the 2007 results), knock-on effects make Corangamite and Deakin notionally Liberal, and McEwen (newly acquired by Labor at the recent election) very safely so.
According to the redistribution commissioners, the sweeping changes have been deemed necessary because relative population decline has made it unfeasible to preserve the existing northern regional trio of Murray, Mallee and Indi. However, this has been disputed in a highly critical submission from Tim Colebatch, a senior journalist for The Age, who calculates that one-in-six Victorian voters will be transferred to different electorates. Colebatch complains there has been a failure to account for future growth in outer suburbs and the inner city, which in partisan terms will mean bloated enrolments in nine Labor seats by 2018 and deficient ones in four middle suburban Liberal seats. It is tempting to speculate the commissioners have been influenced by the fact that redistributions of New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia turned Labor’s 83 seats from the 2007 election into a notional total of 88.
However, another submission from Jenni Newton-Farrelly of the South Australian Parliamentary Library reaches a very different conclusion. Newton-Farrelly has brought to the process her jurisdiction’s enthusiasm for electoral fairness, with reference to margins she has calculated from both the 2007 election and preliminary results from 2010. When these are adjusted to a 50-50 two-party outcome, Labor is found to receive more than its fair share: 20 seats to 17, with no margin in any seat lower than 1.4 per cent. On the results from the recent election, Newton-Farrelly finds the Liberals would have won Corangamite by 0.8 per cent and McEwen by 6.6 per cent, while Labor would have gained Aston by 1.5 per cent.
Elsewhere:
• Antony Green crunches the numbers from seven electorates where there were only Labor, Liberal and Greens candidates and finds “little difference between the 2010 preference flows and the flows in the same seats at the 2007 election”. This comes as a profound shock, as we were repeatedly warned not to trust two-party opinion poll results based on exactly this assumption. Dennis Shanahan of The Australian, for example, wrote on August 2 that Labor’s primary vote had fallen into “the fatal zone below 40 per cent, where the party has only a slight hope of winning, and then based only on heroic assumptions about the results and the delivery of Greens preferences”. I like to think that the moral of this story is that even in this jaded and cynical age, heroism can sometimes still win the day.
• Amusingly, Labor has pulled ahead at the time of writing on the AEC’s meaningless national two-party vote figure, which excludes results from eight electorates. In the past few days I have heard Andrew Bolt, Barnaby Joyce, Kerry Chikarovski and Kenneth Wiltshire (no doubt there were many others) use the progress score on this count to assert that the Coalition had won, which is very clearly untrue. As Peter Brent of Mumble points out, it is almost certain that the complete figures which will be available in a few weeks’ time will show Labor the winner, by however narrow a margin. Smarter Coalition operatives have been limiting their pitch to the perfectly reasonable observation that the Liberal and National parties won “more votes and seats” than Labor.
• In the comments thread from the Mumble post linked to above, Peter Brent tells a reader that “Newspolls will take a breather for a little while”. Speaking of Newspoll, here’s an exchange from Sunday’s edition of Insiders:
Barrie Cassidy: (The Australian) ran the results of a poll on Saturday, not talking about individual seast but country-wide, that more people were in favour of a minority Labor government than a minority Coalition government. Now Glenn, you’ve had some experience with this, they actually polled a week ago and published six days later. That’s unusual, isn’t it?
Glenn Milne: Well, it’s clear they didn’t like the poll results.
3,234 Comments
JV
I wasn’t suggesting that Arbib and Bitar are the only changes I’d like to see. But those two as a minimum cannot be allowed to run Federal campaigns again.
anony i enjoyed reading your post thoroughly how long have you been a member of the greens for?
my wife since 2007, myself just recently. she’s always been smarter than me
. i’ll actually start attending meetings now though. i know that will bring me back to earth with a bump.
My life is ordered by your thinking Glen, it’s about time you understood it.
Anyone that has anything to with the NSW Labor machine shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the federal party.
Nice snark Billbowe
hmmm … new electorate just south of Bendigo which is safe for the ALP. what do they reckon that Burke will be?
we have our priorities right here in Melbourne. First report on the news Fevola banned from Brisbane Lions pending investigation into indecent exposure!!
William,
You’ll always be my hero.
anony the bug really hit me today reading the vile conservative bloggers on the news.com.au at work
today, it was like the final straw in doing something to fight it
Someone`s been giving Glen those sodium pentathol jabs again. Always tough to get the dosage just right – flu medication my arse.
George
Oh, George! North or South?
Wonder how the Downer is going as ‘negotiator’ in Cyprus.
Scott, have been thinking about it while … there are times I feel ‘impotent’ where politics is concerned. This election I have actually felt less so (courtesy of this blog) but it has also highlighted the nastiness of the media and I really want to fight the negative propaganda in some concrete way.
repost from end of thread
Diogenes
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 6:37 pm | Permalink
1/ “Ron I was MORE referring to Arbib/Feeney/Bitar/Farrell.”
but you were refferring to Conroy as well Fact is NBN stands as proof he is one of Labor’s most success Ministers with NBN itself a far reaching infra , tech and econamic effect on this Country that you obvous not realize how significant it will be , nor that only a very competant minister par excellency could hav got NBN to its current roll out stage
Conroy is prob oz’s greatest ever communications Ministers
and in passing , it further histary making inviolves monopoly separation of Telstra , someting Libs/Alston tried and failed
2/ “He’s still an idiot though.”
reely , given th above you look quite foolish
Socrates@1
No, or tell a PM (along with Gillard and Swan) he must dump a critically important policy – so he is mortally wounded. Reminds me of the antics of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
As you say the malaise is much deeper. It cannot and will not be fixed without a split.
We had properties/home in north Cyprus (in Morphou) – my parents lost everything during the war
and Downer in Cyprus? *facepalm*
a few months ago i started writing what i felt like on my facebook page. it brought the evolutionary throwbacks in the extended family out of the woodwork (there is a social conservative streak in australia a mile wide). i didn’t tone it down, i gave them no mercy in my replies and just kept doing it. i’m sick of pretending that the mass insanity and stupidity around me is normal and that my only recourse is to feign apathy. now i drop the hammer on stupid.
So in this new age of everybody getting their say and all these nice things are there going to be six to ten contenders throwing their hat into the ring for Leader of her Maj’s Opposition or is the Opposition still stuck in the rut of one Glorious Leader calling all the shots?
victoria,
I’d take it all with a gain of salt.
Fev is of elephant trunken dimensions. There is no car that could hold him if his member were to escape.
Corangamite will see massive growth over the next 3 years with a huge new housing area in south west Geelong called armstrong Creek. In the long run it will be a safe Labor seat.
GG
I am wondering if Brisbane are just looking for an excuse to cut Fevola loose?
Ditto George.
My grandparents died as refugees. We lost properties in Salamis & Ayios Seryios.
Downer is hated by the Greek Cypriots.
someone was asking about Tony Crook on the previous thread … heard on the ABC yesterday that he has only guaranteed supply, etc. to the coalition if they were to get into power. will sit on cross benches and reserves his right to vote his own way on policy. he won’t cozy up to the coalition officially until such time as Tony Abbott guarantees him the same cushy deal that the Nats statewide have recieved here from Colin Barnett. Royalties for Regions or some such rubbish they called it at the last state election. Very similar situation here, Barnett and Labor neither of which had a majority and the Nationals said “who’s gonna give to us” and put out their WL. Barnett blinked, Libs are now in power and Crook won’t sit with Federal Libs unless Abbott promises same deal on a federal level ….
Victoria
As a Lions fan the Fevola news could be perversely good for the club. The trade for him was a huge mistake. It has already cost the Lions Bradshaw and Lachlan Henderson, and indirectly Michael Rischitelli. Fevola hasn’t done much in an injury plagued season, and hasn’t looked very committed to getting fully fit again. The money they save coudl be used to keep Brennan, Drummond and others.
your missus has always been active/interested in politics? anony
Socrates
As I just mentioned on earlier post, this could just be the excuse Brisbane is looking for to get rid of Fevola. He has been nothing but trouble for them all season. Add to that he has been unable to deliver on the field, and they would be very happy to see the back of him.
I like the comments from the ‘stalking horse’, Kevin Andrews.
That is code for we (the conservatives) won and you (the moderates) lost. So go and suck eggs. And ‘If I see you doing any independent thinking, I will accuse you of destabilising our party’.
Labor 2pp >1000 votes ahead – where are the front page stories?
CC
There are plenty of highly intelligent idiots. And Conroy isn’t one of them. He still doesn’t understand his portfolio after 3 years.
Henry
I agree. The resemblance is uncanny.
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/07/19/1702994/bitar-200×0.jpg
http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images/klaus-kinski-herzog-nosferatu-the-vampyre1.jpg
Ron
Any idiot can say they will spend $42B of taxpayers money to create a huge infrastructure project.
WE ARE ONE, BUT WE ARE MANY………………………………………….
It (Labor) cannot and will not be fixed without a split.
Numerous bloggers long lists of Labor’s great left reforms achieved in past 3 years been posted on PB , only Labor hating morons copying th MSN bias dont accept that fact
rud FA
we both have. her highlight of turning 18 was getting to vote against howard.
All this constant rearrangement of individual seat boundaries begs the question of why we have single member seats in the HoR.
Why not multi-member seats of 5 members (i.e. Tassie = 1 seat) with proportional representation. Quota would be 20%+1.
Advantages: 1/. Seats still have a degree of ‘localism’, 2/. Most constituents would be likely to have at least one local member representative of their views, 3/. The ‘local’ members would be likely to compete to be seen to deliver for their communities – i.e. no ‘safe seats are ignored syndrome’, 4/. More independents / greens / other minorities would be likely to be represented in many seats.
This could be a mechanism for reinforcing the ethos of the new federal parliament.
To my understanding it could be introduced by a vote of the parliament – as was compulsory voting and the change to proportional representation inthe senate.
Perhaps the Indies, Greens, etc might like to raise it with the new government.
Dee, have you been back for a holiday? Cyprus has come a long way economically.
Now that labor is ahead in 2pp wlll ANY media outlet report it? Frank! Twitter !
Any gossip on Amanda Rishworth?
juliem:
I heard a replay of a Colin Barnett interview on breakfast radio on newsradio this afternoon. He was in meltdown about the Labor minority govt, carrying on about the Greens, and how Bob Brown had made “extreme statements” about his land acquisition.
I was shocked. He sounded like Ron Boswell.
Andrew
All I am hearing in the Newsbreaks, is that “cracks are starting to appear in the Labor minority govt”! Geez!!
Tony Windsor on the Abc News, To suggest that the Greens are in an alliance with the Labor Party when they do not have the majority in the House of Reps is just crazy stuff, commenting on the Libs views and the Murdoch hegemony who carried on about it.
This guy is no dumbo, the libs and nats and the idoitic murdoch media were trying to treat him as a dumbo and rightly so he fired back correctly.
Yes, Lu KeWen for FM and then No: 1 at UN after 3 years
marky marky
I missed some of what Windsor was saying. I don’t know if I misheard, but did he say something about being threatened?
Diogenes
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
“Ron Any idiot can say they will spend $42B of taxpayers money to create a huge infrastructure project.”
firstly you could get th figures rite
secondly NBN from start up to now operational roll out requires Minister management , finesses , tech & negotiate skills far beyond your doctors comprehension to understand
Diog, did you?
vic
That’s all we’re getting in Adelaide as well. The MSM want a new election. We’ll see what the Labor-Greens-Wilkie coalition do to stop the meme propagating. A few runs on the board would help but they probably need to get Parlt to sit to really stop it.
7:30 report says Gillard to model the government on Labor in Victoria after 1999. Weekly briefings for the independents on upcoming legislation.
Shorten and Gary Grey to get promotions
madcyril
if Gillard models govt on Bracks Govt, it will be a great success.
Wasn’t Gillard Brack’s CoS at the time?
madcyril@46
Gary Grey being from WA will boost our ministerial Coomponent to 2 after Stephen Smith
Yes, these things matter in WA – hence Mesma being spot welded as Lib Deputy.
I do not think i heard that bit, but Windsor to me would or should be our next Governor General as suggested by a blogger last night.
This guy when he sees a dill or stupid policy he states it. He can’t stand fools or people who think he is idoit and especially hates stupid media.
Something to note about the six day gap in the reporting of the Newspoll result is that the Document Title of the official document is:
It is quite clear that the people at Newspoll thought that this one had been thrown in the vault.
OMG, Tony Blair is such a bore. why oh why we have to listen the idiot on our ABC.
“Mainstream Media Party of Australia” has a good ring to it, no?
3 including Chris Evans (also Leader of the Government in the Senate). I’d imagine Chris Evans will want to move on from Immigration.
In addition, Crook DEFEATED the Coalition sitting member, Wilson “Iron Bar” Tuckey; so how could Tony claim his seat as a Coalition one?
ruawake@48
Close but no cigar
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/is-julia-gillard-a-leader/story-e6freon6-1225883460828
ruawake. She was Chief of staff to Brumby from memory. I think she was gone by 1999 though
ltep@54
Whoops, forgot about Chris Evans
It is only a theory. Still trying to make sense of Katter.
I have been mulling over the Katter decision yesterday. Apparently Laurie Oakes said that Abbott went to bed Monday night thinking he had all three indies. What made him think that? Did the other two say to Katter they would go with coalition expecting him to tell Abbott beforehand. Then of course, after Katter makes his announcement, the other two can make theirs. Katter seemed surprised which way they went.
Reason why I say this is maybe they did not want Katter in the tent. He is a loose canon and would be hard to control. They would rather not count on him and risk him destabiling the govt. with his outbursts.
Stephen Smith also volunteered to step out of Foreign Affairs half way through the campaign, according to 7:30. I hadn’t heard this.
As reported by others according to 7:30 report Rudd will get Foreign Affairs
Yep wrong as usual.
Finns
If Conroy, who is widely considered by people in the Communications industry as the worst Minister ever, can say he’ll do it with $43B I’m sure I could as well.
I’d give you a call to help out.
George
I was born here. My father was going to take me over the year the invasion happened. He went anyway & had everything confiscated. I was going to take dad back several years ago when the borders opened but I was unable to. My brother took him instead. He was not impressed when he was asked to pay to show my brother inside St. Barnabas.
My aunty comes from around Morphu.
The place is full of land grabbers.
This is a basic summary of the Coalition reaction today
It had to come
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX99gwUQ1rs
Was not going to watch it,
but was the tipping point when you take action against Iran’ nuclear weapons?
What about a nearby country which has them, what about them Kerry?
Frank, shame they couldn’t get one of their current senators to step down and appoint Allanah MacTiernan.
I also wonder whether Melissa Parke might get a promotion to parliamentary secretary.
I wrote a very brief little submission on the effect of the redistribution of McEwen etc on my own little neck of the woods, which you can find on the AEC site at http://www.aec.gov.au/Electorates/Redistributions/2010/vic/objections.htm . My primary concern was simply simplicity of representation for the people of the area (we get split between three different electorates, with the school in McEwen, the police station in JagaJaga and many of the lkids who attend the school in Scullin) , but I would have liked to have the time to have thought about it on a more general level. Certainly Tim Colebatch’s comments impressed me. I was surprised how many of the other cobjections were basically simply mass production photocopies!
Comments on the objections can be provided by email etc up until 6PM this Friday (Sept 10, 2010).
Conroy has even got the certificate to prove it.
http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/worst-comms-minister.jpg
Proud of my little girl………first election……..voted Labor….and when the news came through that Julia got the nod from the Indies sent me a text “Suck on that Tone”
Ghostwhovotes,
You are a mysterious figure, aren’t you?
Perhaps you are the Dr Jeckyll to Shanahan’s Mr Hyde.
That’s the only explanation I can come up with about how you get the inside gossip.
anony my wife has said i should get involved because of my heated passion (must be the medertaranian (spelling) blood.
What – Stephen Conroy obviously deserves a medal too?? There is no end to the baubles being handed out to the warrior architects of this debacle.
One thing is for sure with this Labor cabinet, the right will have the numbers with centre left members having the controlling numbers and the left will have fewer cabinet members.
If Kate Ellis loses her portfolio – and I don’t know why, can we sit her behind Jules next to D’ath.
George and Dee pame sti taverna na ta spasoume. Psephos you can come too!
ALP lead now 1,125 from AEC Virtual Tally Room.
Diog, he might or he might not but NBN won the Govt for Labor.
It doesn’t matter. The election is over, so it has no more leverage power.
It only needs bringing up when some Liberal drone wants to claim that they won the popular vote.
JV, once a dickhead always a dickhead
centaur
I think Amanda Rishworth was behind the PM this term and she got the biggest swing to her of any Labor pollie. That must be a coveted spot (although you probably can’t yawn much and have to pretend you are interested).
Can we have her sitting between Jules and Tone?
victoria, yes I was thinking back to when Bracks first took office. As I remember it he was called the accidental premier for quite a long time. The Liberal party and their boosters just assumed the whole election had been a mistake and the people didn’t really want to get rid of Jeff. Of course, Bracks went on to win a famous victory at the next election.
Without the NBN there would be no Indy backing of any kind.
@redwombat, trust that wasn`t just after her `suck on that, fxxxxts` tweet to the Sprinboks was it?
Finns
The NBN was Rudd’s idea.
madcyril
I found Bracks to be a gentleman. It was certainly a big change to when Kennett was running the state.
centaur – remember you’re going to organise a night for all us tragics!
Redwombat
My daughter voted for the first time too. I got a “whoo hooo” texted to me after the Oakeshotte monologue.
Mike Symon was also right behind the PM. He won a famous victory in Deakin. Becoming the first ALP member to gain re-election in the seat.
Made me grin. Say thanks. The world is better! Anyone thinks otherwise is the percentage I will never understand.
Hence her nickname Noddy I suppose.
Best part of watching Question Time was to watch Yvette D’Ath and Amanda Rishworth make faces at the Opposition (Juile Bishop).
Conroy could have just paid lipservice to the NBN if it was Rudd’s idea. The development of it to the point where it is attractive to Country members is a feather in Conroy’s cap as far as I am concerned.
steve
As I have said on earlier postings, I thought the NBN was going to help get Labor over the line.. I never envisaged that it would have been in such dramatic circumstances!!
bought today’s sydney telegraph … a museum piece of a low point of msm … front page defamation of JG – fascist technique of questioning legitimacy – plus valorised two page on TA. astounding by any standards. has there been worse in this country???
Diog, it dont matter. it was Labor’s idea and it saves the gOVt.
The NBN, a huge whole-of-government decision, helped Labor by the barest margin be able to form a minority government dependent on others.
That, after after serial idiot decisions on policy, including the Stephen Conroy personal crusade on a stupid and laughable internet filter which turned off young technology savvy voters en masse.
Conroy stood shoulder to shoulder with the Australian Christian Lobby as his idea was ridiculed and mocked all over the internet and the general media, as the votes dropped away, and the majority was lost. What a hero. Come on, let’s give him a medal.
my member out here will be prominent some time aswell
Congratulate her for her taste, from me, Redwombat.
My daughter’s text was “All’s right with the world” Does make you proud that your offspring have common sense as well as intelligence, doesn’t it!
JV, you’re just anti-Labor, a split would be catastrophic and condemn the progressive side of politics to then wilderness for a generation.
Victoria some Queensland Ministers have always treated Indy’s with respect because they might be needed in a tight scrap. The Tory way tends to be abuse and ignore them in equal measure and from what I have seen today nothing has changed as far as the Tories are concerned.
Aguirre, my only interest in the 2PP is the fact the MSM and coalition are still spruiking it as evidence against Gillard. I want to see egg on faces
The Spanish Inquisition time, where is Amigo Vera and the Senorita?
I know. Probably couldn’t compete with Rpwan Atkinson, who was at the same school (Cathedral Choristers’ School, Durham), in the same class (I bought my son a book on RA with the class photo in it):
[Only in the class who did not laugh at him, was a serious boy named Tony Blair (the future Prime Minister of Great Britain was keen on learning, not grimaces eccentric Atkinson) (sic)].
http://persona.rin.ru/eng/view/f/0/29967/rowan-atkinson-rowan-atkinson
A bit like Kev the Nerd & His Gorgeousness Swannie, the long-haired Surfie Spunk (also sang in the school musical) elected School Captain by students, very much to the spiteful displeasure of a number of teachers (though they weren’t in the same year level, much less class).
And he’s even lost the flashllght grin. I turned off.
I suspect the Labor MPs sitting behind Julia this time will be Deborah O’Neill and Laura Smyth, with Rob Mitchell also featured very prominently on the TV pictures from parliament.
The Finnigans@78
You say that with some authority, and often. It’s intriguing. Do you have personal insight through bitter experience? Is there a scar on your forehead?
Finns
I agree with that. It was probably the most obvious difference between Labor and the Libs.
Speaking of Rudd, his 2PP in Griffith has just risen to 58.5%.
Looking at the replies of other daughters to their parents I am wondering whether I should have sent her to a catholic school
The sour grapes from the Coalition and the media have a joy to watch & listen to – may it continue for the next 3 years!
Along with one side could get there costings to add up.
whoops…..”shouldn’t have….”
steve
Julia has shown to be a tough operator, and has handled post election superbly. The Tories are not going to go away quietly, and the MSM are aiding and abetting. Thank goodness Oakshott and Windsor appear to be very sensible people.
steve
That only fully came out after the election though. I wonder how that AFP inquiry is going?
And talking AFP, what the hell has happened to the Grech investigation? Have they given up on that or something?
jv, how did you know. have we met?
Ah yes, that explains Labor’s great results in WA.
Victoria, Jules has done well, Swan too for mine he is a former State Secretary of Labor in Queensland and is one tough cookie. Rudd still has skills the Opposition has no idea about. It is not going to be a one way street even though it will be nasty, bitter and nervewracking for Labor. They will dish out plenty along the way.
This would have to be the biggest, Opposition in history and I frankly doubt Rabbott has the peopleskills to handle them.
@ 69, WOO HOO, you raise them right at your house LOL …..
Victoria
What’s this I hear about the indies being threatened?
While you go in search of that, they’ll just be moving on to find some other way to discredit the government. It’s just a tactic they tried out. It failed, they’ll drop it. They couldn’t care less about it really.
This idea of a split is pretty silly from my p.o.v.
The ALP must be a varied party that takes in a range of views and ideas to be successful. Any major political party must be to survive in this day and age. Splintering and fracturing for the sake of ideologies is self-destructive.
A pragmatic party that reads the electorate and responds in such a way as to fulfill expectation without going against its underlying philosophy will always win out over a narrowly focussed group. The greens have become more successful because they have, in fact, broadened their appeal while still maintaining its basic premise of envirnmentalism.
The 2 Indies have just done that on a personal level, as well, by choosing policy over partisan politics while keeping to the integrity of what will most benefit their constitents.
It has another name — compromise — and JUlia is a dab hand at it. So I wouldn’t pay attention to your rationale JV
Dee:
some have suggested the indies need police protection because they will be at risk of a backlash from some of the more extreme coalition supporters in the community.
Jon@99
I’m anti right-wing parties that stand for nothing.
With Labor gone to hell in a hand-basket and having abandoned the left (including me) quite consciously and deliberately, it is worth looking at what that means.
For a start, as I have pointed out repeatedly without a response, how is the new left-free party going to get its primary vote out of the 30s on a consistent basis?
Given the party’s decision by those who now run it unfortunately, it seems to me that the best interests of Labor would be best served by a vote for PR in the House. This would result in an easy combination of Labor and Greens forming government for very long periods.
Other things would occur over time, like splits in the two majors, and various new parties etc. It would be fantastic.
Wash your mouth out — redwombat!
This is a snapshot of the coalition unhinging that was documented on ABC news tonight.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-mps-vent-over-independent-duos-decision-to-back-labor/story-fn59niix-1225915920922
Aguirre, they need to care about it- they harped on about it
http://australianteaparty.blogspot.com/
Not big on support. Seems more like a lone gunman than a movement. But I really have no idea how this crap on rights and liberties relates to Australia.
I reckon some people just confuse Gettysburgh and Gallipolli.
Although Australians would fight in any war to defend our rights to take sickies on the Monday before Melbourne Cup day.
It should have said “shouldn’t of sent her to a catholic school’…….her mums idea
Perfect Analagy :
If the coalition actually really want to be able to ever get the Indis to cross the floor in the course of the forthcoming parliament then they had better learn to back off on the bile and vitriol pretty quickly!
Was your choice — I worked in state schools and my kids attended state schools. Both did very well despite some of the less savoury elements that were there (state schools can’t just toss the ones that ‘don’t fit’).
There are good and bad arguments for both sides.
I live surrounded by 3 of the most expensive private schools in the country. They drip money and facilities.
My sister-in-law worked for 11 years to pay for her daughter to go to an exclusive private school — when the girl failed her HSC my sister-in-law was distraught that she had spent all those years slaving for nothing (daughter wasn’t stupid — just lazy and with a crowd who were well-heeled so didn’t care).
Am glad my kids have their heads on straight, and I think their school experience has a lot to do with that.
blue-green: I linked to a Facebook page which is modeling itself on the Tea Partiers, “fighting for a return to freedom and democracy” or some such. It seems some are definately trying to get a similar type movement running here.
Confessions:
There is a really bizzare misunderstanding about Australian culture and history if people think ‘rights and liberty’ are what we as a nation are about.
#2887 (last thread) Anony,
beautiful story
Frank,
Unlike the Melbourne Storm, the Libs never won a Premiership.
Same-sex adoption bill passes the NSW Legislative Council with amendments. If approved by the Legislative Assembly it will become law?
had an email from the greens its senator Scott Ludlam to email re the abc.
Rod the LNP is petrified that these Indy’s are going to be so successful that the Nationals will become obsolete. On that basis expect the Fear rate to accelerate as time goes on. The poor dears are frightened and it is showing. The Indys are starting to win National Party seats by huge margins and have more flexibility as the three showed yesterday.
The perils of a narrow majority
In the UK, there have been cases where Members of Parliament were wheeled from far afield to vote for the government on a crucial vote. Former MP Joe Ashton remembered a case from the dying days of James Callaghan’s government:
“I remember the famous case of Leslie Spriggs, the then-Member for St. Helens. We had a tied vote and he was brought to the House in an ambulance having suffered a severe heart attack. The two Whips went out to look in the ambulance and there was Leslie Spriggs laid there as though he was dead. I believe that John Stradling Thomas said to Joe Harper, ‘How do we know that he is alive?’ So he leaned forward, turned the knob on the heart machine, the green light went around, and he said, ‘There, you’ve lost—it’s 311.’ That is an absolutely true story. It is the sort of nonsense that used to happen. No one believes it, but it is true.”
blue-green: except for indigenous folk maybe.
I’m worried about this and how far it might go. If Howard wasn’t prepared to stamp on Hansonism, I’ve got no faith in Abbott to denounce any tea party style uprising among the groups you’ve previously identified.
One should never accept as fact anything one reads. One should always check it out for oneself. When you do, you would be surprised what errors can be made if you just relied on what you read.
Dee
I had the news on whilst I was doing stuff in the kitchen. I was listening, but was not sure if I heard correctly. I thought I heard Windsor saying something about being threatened and that he did not expect it. I may have misheard. This was on Channel 9 in Melbourne.
VP,
Being dead has never been a problem with voting in the Labor party.
confessions
Abbott took rode on the coattails of these types of sentiments (at least partly) to take the mantle of the Libs.
o what sour grapes
If Rabbott is elected unopposed then we know we are looking at a pack of irrelevant sooks.
Clarification:
There have been some minor skirmishes about the ‘right’ to mine
steve,
The experience in Victoria was that the Libs stuck loyally to their leader until just before the next election (who lost). They rinsed and repeated in 2006. Expectations are that the same thing is about to happen.
I nodded off after having celebrated long & hard last night & then working all day today has anything signicant happent sincr 6.30 Eastern time? I am working through the blog to catch up.
What do people think about the idea of developing something like an e-book of the ‘Best of Pollbludger in the 2010 Federal Election’? I know I’ve cut and pasted some very insighful and worthwhile posts, and I’m sure I would have missed hundreds of others. Maybe the allocation of a special thread for candidate posts would be a good starting point.
I only happened on the site one day early in the election while looking around crikey. The various blogs had maybe 10 or 20 comments listed against them, and there was this one blog that had a couple of thousand. It’s been irresistable, and a credit to William and the many regulars.
victoria, Channel Nine stated that Tony Windsors office had received personal threats against him.
blue-green @ 143:
I know. I remember that 4Corners episode on AGW denialism in the coalition, and how Barnaby and senior Liberals actively courted these types. Abbott owes his leadership to Minchin (“global warming is a communist conspiracy”), and Abetz, who you’ve already identified as trying to create a rightwing reactionary type movement in Tas.
b g,
The biggest battles in Australia have been bikey gangs laying claim to a pool table at the Miranda Hotel.
More on the Speaker for the new parliament
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/squabble-over-speaker-role-brewing/story-fn3dxity-1225916085655
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
“He will make himself available for the new position,” a spokeswoman from his office said.
]
madcyril
thanks for clarifying that. So I heard correctly. Do you recall what Windsor said about these threats?
What is wrong with these Coalition idiots?
If they had won the indies support they would be claiming legitimacy.
Finn
La senorita is back
Just have each party propose a Speaker and the usual secret ballot. No need for a whiney public campaign.
victoria, Channel Nine basically sprung the news on him when he arrived at the airport. They didn’t show his response other than to say he didn’t know that he’d received the threats. It was all a bit A Current Affair to be frank. No surprise it was Ben Fordham doing the reporting
madcyril
thanks. The media sucks!
I said this would happen within a month. If they got Police protection it would send a signal to the majority of Australians how kooky some of us are.
Who won?
blue-green
what I do not understand. What are people upset about. Things are going relatively well here. We have a good welfare system, and if you need medical treatment, you will get it. What are people so angry about??
please enlighten me who was threatened by whom?
my say
Coalition ministers have been drowning the airwaves whinging that Gillard is illegitimate & the independents are traitors.
Ahh the advantages of a “selective school” education, all the advantages of a good education (because they took all the good hard working students) with none of the toil/”guilt” of going to a private school.
Though I think it’s just a Sydney thing? I don’t recall them being popular anywhere else.
Make us the ultimate hypocrites though when we advocate how we support public schools…
Victoria
Just saw a newsbreak on channel 10 with Sandra Sully, and she said threats had been made against Mr Windsor. More in the late news tonight.
I’m still unclear as to how the Speaker is actually going to be Independent. They may not sit in the party room but they will still be relying on their party for re-election.
b g,
Democracy.
Yes, this just in:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5530/mandyrowlf.jpg
victoria
Aside from the Coalition & their rusted on cheer squad who is angry?
Thanks blackdog forexplaining threats to me I’ve been out of th e”loop” for a couple of hours – sound asleep with lots of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZs
Sertse
Selective schools are also alive and well in Melbourne. I know several students that have attended these schools.
In this zero sum game of your there is “nothing” and “JV’s view” this idea is patently absurd. Most people above the age of 12 are able to broaden their perspective beyond such simplistic rhetoric,you do deserve credit for persistence.
Is Amanda in the left or the right?
Re Windsor Threats:
Ltep, that is the most brilliant idea from you on many levels. It would test out the legitimacy argument that has been swirling around today.
Right.
Extraordinary. The OO caught red-handed pushing the coalition barrow,and deceiving the public by omission.
Zero. credibility. rag.
Blackdog
Thanks. I will try and watch it.
For those who criticise the role of State Govt in Australia:
The fact that we can balance the political ‘victors’ is a actually a safety valve to extremism. Everybody gets a bit of power.
Lib Fed govts and ALP state govts (and reverse).
Look at France, they have one fed govt and no states. Thats why they don’t have protests they have riots.
GG, she was behind
Dee
Exactly. Hopefully, this silliness will stop, and if it is true that the indies have been personally threatened, they should get proper protection.
[redwombat
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 8:10 pm | Permalink
whoops…..”shouldn’t have….”[
lol
bet u thought it wouldn't be long before i popped in.
our daughters went to catholic schools , one has married in a labor dynasty and the other as labor as you could get and our son also was green . green now labor
so why would you think that.
the catholic schools they went to where not posh with all comers at the schools.
They put stuff on their face books that made me so proud during the election and had things to say also and pressed the share button.
The nuns taught us and them compassion and caring for your family and always placing your self in others shoes, isnt that the labor way
#137 Steve,
Tony Winsor is the member for New England, the safest electorate in the country and the most archetypal rural seat in Australia (As it encompasses Tamworth, home of country music). The LNP are squealing because this is the sort of seat it EXPECTS to side with them. Luckily for the progressive side of politics it’s sitting member has a brain and can descide for himself what side of politics can best help his constituants.
Someone should remind Prissy that Tone said he was happy to keep the current speakr
Oh wait, that was an unscripted statement wasn;t it
If Milne turned from the dark side and did an expose on the inner working s of the OO. Now, that would be an excellent read.
Problem is the retribution on Glenn would not be pretty.
does milne still work at the oo, if so how come he writes on the abc
Exactly VP, the Opposition offered Jenkins the Speakership just a week or so ago and were singing his praises. Just leave it in the hands of the House. Whoever loses the ballot for the Speaker can be elected as Deputy Speaker unopposed.
Anyone know who is on LL tonight?
My say, Milne was let go from News Ltd a while back.
Ah Senorita, Buenas noches, Mucho gusto Encantado
Finns,
And a lovely one I’m sure.
She’s obviously talented but lining up against the next in lines, shes down the list. Would need to do over Kate Ellis to advance in the near future.
Victoria 172
I get what you are saying. Australia is just great to live in by comparison with much of the planet. This is my explanation I wrote earlier this morning.
Conroy and Pyne I believe victoria.
Muy buenas a ti Finn!
Victoria, gorgeous Leigh
Senorita, Por favor hable más despacio
es-ta bi-en eso es su-fi-ci-en-te len-to pa-ra ti?
Gracia
Barnett still not happy:-)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/08/3005684.htm
Are you a native speaker of Spanish Finn? I’m not.
The people I used to know who had been hidden in the bushes in Warlpiri country as children in 1928 while their parents were cut down by Murray’s “punitive expedition” near Conisiton might have disagreed a bit about that one, G.G.!
Senorita, me Spanish? No no, Finnish.
Itep
I think I will give it a miss if Chrissy Pyne is going to start whinging again!
Finns
blue-green
are you saying that it is the older generation that if ranting and raving about this election result?
Gus, what fight are we doing now? i am in.
Enseno politica de America Latina y del tercer mundo (no digale a nadie) por eso hablo espanol
but i’d barely got started.
thanks, i’ll be here all night. try the veal.
Frank,
You pays your money, you make your choice.
Barnett is the first big loser outside the Federal Libs.
(apart form McCorrie)
My Finnish is non-existent my Bogan is ok though
Senorita, can i answer that in Mandarin?
Michelle Grattan is so out of touch. Today she called Oakeshott “Centre-Right”.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/gillard-all-smiles-but-it-could-end-in-tears-20100907-14zle.html
You only need to read half a dozen of his speeches in the House of Representatives to know that he is more left wing than most Labor MPs:
looks that way. all the people my age (under 30) are overjoyed at the result, just about the best outcome. though i tend not to associate with idiots and scions of the wealthy so i couldn’t tell you what liberals my age think.
How ’bout orange instead?
Orange? methinks Mr. Rudd cannot do that.
finns
spoke to a greens person today
the ducks are being lined up
Bobby brown may well yet go back into my good book
I will be more focused this weeked
Don’t worry by the time the Libs finish, Oakshott will be a lover of Democracy.
There is no greater condemnation of the man possible.
As to the oldies supporting Fibs & being angry, well they’ll pass on soon & us progressives & youngsters will rule the world, aha aha the world I tell you
Gusface
You are speaking in riddles again. R U suggesting that Brown will take on the media?
Victoria,
yes, largely. Also the very small groups of new-right youngies who get their ideology from US politics.
But the base is the “oldies” losing their grip on the political/policy balance.
e.g Climate policy perceptions is clearly divided by age. How many 24 year olds do you know that think “climate change science is crap”?
Just how are independents “traitors?” They are bloody INDEPENDENT for goodness sake.
Gus, i fought the Evil Empire before. Let’s do it again.
blue-green
so we are talking about the grey brigade, or those over 40?
Victoria Brown already has attacked media twice this week for right wing bias
Nate Anderson writes for Ars Technica:
“Fiber lives on! How broadband decided Australia’s election”
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/fiber-lives-on-how-broadband-decided-australias-election.ars
Frank Calabrese@200
Even better (or worse for the Nats).
The WA Farmers Federation President Mike Norton says:
not all over 40s (winks)
Vic
now ia msaying that the greens are not willing to step backwars when it comes forwrad in regarads to the MSm
ABC really dropped the ball in terms of greens/minors coverage
come 1 july the weight of numbers will be indeed impressive
Senorita, i am practicing my Spanish again so next time when i go back to Macchu Picchu so that i can ask: “How do you cook that guinea pig?”
Finns,
Sounds like the Twist to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVQ0MXp-8ds
Vic,
grey brigade.
the 40-50s tend to be pretty evenly divided ALP/Lib and not think that this result is the end of Australia as we know it.
Dr Bogan
I know Brown has already called out the media. I am wondering if Gusface is alluding to Brown maybe raising the stakes with the media.
Guinea pig is quite tasty but the bones are a pain
Finns
We need a definitive website that encapsulates all the various sources
And a name
Victoria
Here’s hoping
GG, surely you are too young for that. i am.
#200 Frank,
Screw Barnett!
Gus, i will talk to you offline
blue-green
Fair enough.
Finns,
I used to be.
A great line from Windsor that will be good bait for Tories for a solid three years.
Vic
i recieved an email asking me to call
I think the Greens have as much to gain as anyone else by afairer media
I could only nominate SHY and BB as peeps I had seen pre and post election
whatever your opine of the tofu brigade
they are in the main the users of new media
Do you get tomato sauce on your guinea pig?
Apparently Penny Wong is to resign from the Ministry. A fairly wise decision I would say.
Repeat that 100 times a day:
“you do [broadband] once, you do it right, and you do it with fibre” , …
“you do [broadband] once, you do it right, and you do it with fibre”, …
“you do [broadband] once, you do it right, and you do it with fibre” …
“you do [broadband] once, you do it right, and you do it with fibre” …
GG, yes, those were the days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KODZtjOIPg
‘Shows on’ you should go Ranga.
redwombat
guinea pig is served with salsa not tomato sauce and tasty it ’tis
That’s nuts.
The “Tyranny of Distance” matters, you may not be able to travel but you will be able to communicate. Broudband is going to make an enormous difference to country electorates.
Gusface
It would be invaluable if the Greens are able to do something constructive regarding the media. They obviously know that between the Libs and the media, the Greens are going to be in the firing line, especially when the new senate starts next year.
wombat will be nice with tomato sauce, especially the red one
Well Penny should change portfolios but leave all together not sure that’s a good look for soooo many reasons
Why?
Grog:
Two party preferred results now starting to come on for Denison, one of the missing eight seats.
Not quite as good for ALP as hoped but maybe not a typical booth.
A big shame if Wong resigns.
The Liberals are banking on a cost blowout to the NBN. And the shockjocks were going bananas. They’re telling everyone that there is already a split between Swan and Windsor over the mining tax. Sore losers
That’s all I’ve heard on politics today.
Is Wong really going?
Could be worse.
Colombia was so politically divided in the 1960′s that two major parties signed an power sharing accord to alternate govts.
Worked really well.
Dr Good, we know from the election night figures tat Denison was better for Labor than that so it’s probably just a bad booth(s).
Bloody Sloppy used so many cliches, he makes Diog looks like Shakespeare
If Wong goes that’s a lot of high profile exits from the left faction. Wong, Tanner and Faulkner.
I can’t wait to see the composition of this climate committee negotiated. I really hope Prof Garnaut is asked onto it. I see from the article the mining industry will be screaming if any real change to BAU is suggested, let alone mandated. No doubt Ferguson et. al. will be lobbying for a mining industry rep on the committee, but all being well the indies and Bandt can block any such strategic and obstructive sop by the deniers.
This is the big one.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/08/3006435.htm
If she resigns from cabinet, then it suggests to me that she is going to quit parliament when her term expires in 2014.
TWT tried that one but the dude basically refuted that tripe
Also the other meme being floated is that the cities will suffer cos the bush will get the NBN first
also shot down as both telstra and optus have 100Mb capacity already
optus has just turned on syd and mel and telstra mel so far
we have been conned peeps conned
I am not complaining. However, from my small focus group – she sent a lot of votes directly to the Greens. Why? – Because she just mouths RWN policy, rather than saying – This is the RWN policy. I am bound by it. I disagree with it and I will work my butt off to change the party policy.
Dr Bogan
Also repeat 100 times a day
Trust the Libs and Nats with money? They can’t count
Trust the Libs and Nats with money? They can’t count.
Robb must be feeling very depressed when he floated the idea of challenging Mesma. Even more depressed when it was knocked out for 6.
That can’t be true.
Peter, you ever heard of Cabinet solidarity?
Which will be packaged with other services and offered VERY soon… little birdie
Blackdog
I’ll happily repeat your line too
Hate to be a spoilsport, but for people like me who know about 6 words of German, a couple of French and about 3 Italian, can we please have translations from those posters fortunate enough to be conversant in more than English? I’d prefer not to have to dig out my Enigma code-book and, in these LNP conspiracy laden times, who knows what skullduggery is going on on this blog?
Telstra only has 100 Mbps speed if you are willing to pay $100 a month for your internet AND have Foxtel installed. Plus that service is only available in parts of Melbourne and Sydney.
Once NBN is built, Foxtel’s HFC network will be obsolete. Foxtel will be delivered via the NBN. In fact, every commerical TV station will deliver content via the NBN. The digital TV network will basically be obsolete too.
What about Robb challenging Bishop for Deputy?
They obviously have an abundance of talent on the tory side. And they expected the Indies to give that real poor lot the nod!
Allan it is only harmless banter about Spanish language & saying hi so don’t sweat it will resort to monolingualism from now
How so?
Apparently she’s worked very hard behind the scenes to make the party less homophobic, and more receptive to the kinds of reforms Rudd introduced for same sex couples.
Personally, I think your focus group is suffering from Bitar Syndrome.
More Unhinged Barnett:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/7905908/barnett-queries-constitution-change/
ltep@264
Exactly. And the inference to be drawn is a very clear one. The party is dying from the inside, from the same affliction that caused the NSW death.
#268
I may have got that wrong. Wong may be just changing portfolios…..not certain.
Wong tipped to move from climate
Allan, Ni Hao Ma? Wo ai ni, xie xie.
Dr Bogan
Thankyou
Finns
careful
allan is a compadre
#279
In her opposition to gay marriage.
confessions@279
Young Peter is nothing more as a Bitter Queen who hates Strong ALP Women like Wong and KK.
He should really stick with his dogs and his fellow Oxford St types abnd leave politics to the Grown Ups.
Frank,
I smell a back down.
264
I’ll say one thing for the Right faction – they may not know how to avoid losing 16 seats after running an economically successful government, but they do know how to cement their grip on power afterwards without admitting they screwed up.
The Labor right is a great force for the good of the Labor right. Still, I shoudln’t criticse them – they are a self-sacrificing lot. I bet there isn’t a single member of the Labor Right who doesn’t live in a modest worker’s cottage in the western suburbs smaller than Chifley’s
your welcome blackdog
WA should just secede & be done with it … & us with them (take north Qld with them too)
ah gus, it was from Lu Kewen: “how are you? I love you and thank you”
I’ve been away from the cut-and-thrust all day, thankfully working on a production project that takes up nearly all my time.
But having a quick squizz around the MSM websites… it’s all negative,isn’t it?
All the things that have/might/could-conceivably/may-in-a-month-of-Sundays/in-you-wildest-dreams/couldn’t-possibly-but-may-go-wrong have been canvassed, tossed, convolved and workshopped in all their gory details.
Splits, misunderatandings, facing the music, home to front the backlash, destabilisation, hold the government to account etc. etc. are the soup de jour today. There’s no other game in town other than how this minority government is gonna fail, and fail miserably. Not one person I’ve read in the Press wants it to succeed. All they can harp on is how disaster looms.
Talk about a “conservative media”! I’m talking “conservative” in the literal sense: they don’t want change, any change.
These movers and shakers, these tellers of wisdom, these intellectual conduits through which all political wisdom flows are all telling us the same thing: they can’t get used to a Parliament where there’s a chance of some actual co-operation, thoughtful analysis of bills, soundbite-free examination of issues and politics. They’re starved, deprived of their sport, lacking a contest and a context where they can pitch one side against another… so they just make it up and print it, whether it’s bullshit or not.
If ever there was an indication of which way the Australian media thinks, it lies in the weeping, renting of garments and gnashing of teeth we’re seeing in our newspaper and our electronic media today. They just can’t get settled with the fact that things have changed, hopefully for the better. There’s not one whit of optimism or cheerfulness in anything they’ve written.
Sod the lot of ‘em.
Dr Bogan
Thanks but I was trying my usual feeble attempt at humour. You are all free to natter away in whatever language you like (I may even try some Gaelic) as I have the Mac Widget translator anyway.
Finns – are you being cheeky?
GG
I smell the scent of an englishmun
Thanks Gusface.
Peter Young@286
Nice try at verballing people – not all Gay People approve of Gay Marriage.
And you KNOW it.
I’m not that paranoid yet. You can go for your life. I’m holding off.
Prissy Pyne is so, so overexposed.
Stick to betting PY.
gus,
Your personal hygiene is your own concern.
BK
cleo beckons?
Frank @ 287
I don’t think Oxford Street is the “in” place these days but it is a while since I’ve been part of that scene so I may be wrong.
Wong, although ineffectual in communication, to her credit opposed the initial dumping of the ETS in April along with Lindsay Tanner, against the aliens from the planet Sicilia, Gillard and Swan. Extremely significant if she goes, along with the other two high profile left wingers. We haven’t even seen the beginnings of what is to come in the party. And you thought the 1950′s were bad?
Yes. I think however the new paradigm moves beyond old concepts like “cabinet solidarity”. It cost Labor votes. Is it worth retaining ? How about the cost to personal integrity? is it worth retaining in any event ?
Combet would be a good replacement. They need someone with better communication skills than Wong.
Allan
that was my dry wit back to your humour
Diogs,
You don’t like being told the truth by a woman, do you?
Yes
26%
No
55%
Maybe
19%
let it all out soon the pain will go away
Funny, that’s not what Google Translate came up with.
But what it suggested wasn’t physically possible – well not for me anymore anyway.
If Wong is just changing portfolios, I think that is a good idea, after what the right has put her through. She might be an anti Arbib force within the parliamentary wing, while Tanner and Faulkner commence their work in the organisation.
That’s right Itep
I’ve had a look now and it is actually all the non ordinary votes for Denison that have been Tpp’d.
So we would expect them to be better for theLiberals.
MSM?
gus,
The next period up to July1 next year will be a nightmare. After that the problems will really start.
Gus
Ughh!
GG
Wong had no idea about climate change so she wasn’t worth listening to. And when I listened to her, I fell asleep. She is Labor’s answer to Robb.
Why Rudd didn’t toss her I’ll never know.
What does Google translate make of the commenters on Bolt’s Blog?
Based on your unrepresentative focus group?
Yes it’s worth retaining. In any case, the entire party is based off of solidarity, the arguments are (supposed) to happen within caucus and then the collective acts together.
The Greens demonstrate even less dissent from party policy than Labor. Word is that Bob Brown overrules party room decisions he doesn’t like and the other politicians don’t dare oppose him.
Peter Young: Yes, it must be difficult for Wong to abide by the Party platform. But as she’s said publicly before, she feels she can best change party policy from the inside rather than the outside, and if we want our public institutions to better reflect our society, that sort of commitment requires our support rather than derision.
I especially take issue with your assessment of her ministerial capacity based on her stance on same sex marriage. I think that’s a very shallow appraisal of what constitutes ministerial competence.
GG, I AM NOT A WOMAN. The Senorita is.
Phew
had me worried there for a sec
Diog can’t cope with anyone telling him anything GG
Diogs,
I hear Penny got your dams to overflow. She made it rain. You must have been asleep.
DR WARS
Senorita, are you auditioning to be the 5th Amigo?
And Wong was given the boot by the Labor-Green coalition. Her position was “untenable”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/greens-at-odds-with-wong-on-climate-change-action/story-e6frg6nf-1225915569986
yes Finn I am
Err, could you come across as any more homophobic Frank?
Is it an open call?
I tap dance as well (around policy anyway)
JG
The Finnigans, #2852 previous thread
Ditto. Thank you, Margo.
Finding WebDiary many years ago changed my life in several ways. I very quickly moved from dial-up to broadband so I could read WebDiary more efficiently, and that gave me freedom to explore the wider online worlds of opinion, analysis, blogging etc.
And thank you, William. Following Pollbludger (and Poss, Daily Bludge etc) has been particularly therapeutic in the last few days.
Over the past few months there’s been a growing rumble on various blogs to work out ways of confronting the dishonesty and/or bias of media (excluding, of course, ‘opinion’ pieces) in relation to their “code of ethics”, “charter” etc. It’ll be interesting to see how a specific digital or online community might evolve. Hope I can be part of it.
Dr B,
Diogs always loves to quote a News link as a credible source.
We giggle at his naivety.
where is Amigo Vera when you need her?
Rocket Rocket @ 64
[This is a basic summary of the Coalition reaction today
It had to come
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX99gwUQ1rs
Very funny … and yes … when the Hitler parody of the Rabbott comes out, then that’s when we’ve won!
Really? Where is the word from?
“a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”
Steve @ 316
I think it goes into meltdown!
GG
That was her water policy, to pray for rain. Of course, all the water is just flowing out to sea.
Yes where is Margo K these days – we miss her so
DR B,
325 comes in as if I ordered it from a menu.
Diogs,
Bitch, bitch, bitch!
Helen2, Arigato Gozaimasu
ShowsOn@327
Young Peter uses his Homosexuality as a tool to Attack Penny Wong’s Sexuality.
He needed to be responded to in kind.
Deal with it.
Senorita, the last time i emailed her was a couple of years ago. She was up north somewhere, over the rainbow.
GG
is that like
beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice!
So will Chrissy cry on LL tonight?
#318 -confessions.
You clearly did not understand what I said. I did not make an assessment of Wong’s ability as a minister. I had merely pointed out that in my focus group there is a deal of anger towards her. It actually resulted in people voting Greens (and I am not complaining about her efforts on behalf of the Greens). The strength of anger expressed at the time was viral.
Dr Bogan @ 306
Sorry – I didn’t recognise it (I did say my attempts at humour were pretty feeble!) It must be the dour Scot in me.
My dog avatar says hello to your cat by the way!
Diog BS.
GG
They seemed to know a lot more than you about Rudd getting knifed by his own party.
And it looks like they will be right about Wong’s departure.
Ok. Webdiary has been preserved by the National Library at:
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/21852/20050825-0000/webdiary.smh.com.au/index.html
yes, we fought the Fairfax Press well.
george
That standard of argument might work with the kiddies and the Labor faithful but it won’t really convince anyone else.
Diog @325
That article said that the leadership team were too busy “herding Cats” to talk about ministries. Interesting summation of events over the past two weeks.
#343
Not at all. My focus group saw her as having sold out, as being a traitor and a judas. Her only way out of that perception would have been to say publicly that she personally disagreed with the party policy, even though bound by it, and added she would work her butt off to change it.
Haven’t they heard of wheelie bins?
She doesn’t represent your focus group any more than JG represents people with red hair.
The longer the Coalition remain angry with their present situation, the longer they will remain in Opposition.
…
I hope it’s safe to let this secret loose on this site. If the Coalition gets hold of this information they might start to get their act together and god help us all …
Penny is a good person. She got a huge job. Anyone who could have done better quickly post and enjoy the ridicule. She was hung out to dry, give her a break.
I could give a F what you think when you compare Wong to Robb.
spur212
so true.
redwombat
She’s getting death threats!!
also worth noting was this pertinent point
labor now has the handcuffs off
and hopefully the boxing gloves on
george
She is as boring and soporific as Robb. I was only talking about her media skills.
gus,
But Diogs will always have News to tell him what happened and how to think.
Lucky him.
Greesnsborough Growler @ 331
Even worse, the Oz article itself admits at the end:
“Senator Wong could not be reached for comment but Labor insiders said she was unlikely to lose the climate change portfolio.”
This little bit, of course, was something which Diogenes neglected to cut & paste.
Paul Keating used to say in question time when Alexander Downer and co were making fun of him “I’m glad your happy over there, because that’s the recipe for staying on that side of the house”
The only ways Oppositions win government is if the incumbent is woefully bad or their policies are awfully good. I think the Independents bought some good policy hence why the ALP are still in government.
Peter Young@353
Umm She Did, but your Bigotry towards her failed to notice that small point.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/wong-backs-labors-antigay-marriage-stance-20100725-10q37.html
GG
For a lemming who followed Rudd off the cliff without a single word, it’s quite amusing to hear you talk about uncritical thinking.
vik,
Thanks.
Diogs, so Wong knows nothing about climate change?
No, you obviously know more than her.
Finns I think Diogs is funnier than you!
Diog, I respectfully disagree, and I read your comment correctly. You might find her “boring”, but maybe because she is a true intellectual and can argue a point using logic, that might certainly “bore you”. As opposed to Robb who sounds like grandpa Simpson on drugs – not boring, just “stab me now before I have to listen to any more pain”.
Unlikely to lose the climate change portfolio? Who’d want it?
Couldn’t agree more itep.
I’ve seen other reports that she would move from climate change (which I personally think would be a pity , too) but she would certainly be a major loss of real talent if she really is going altogether.
I’d actually dabbled with the idea that, despite the obviously lower status than FA, Rudd is just the sort of character who might have chosen Climate Change instead.
swmbo has just regaled me with how oakeshott left the nats
politely i said I know
she impolitely said everyone should
bludgers therin lies the nub
vik
Oh I get it. So now you trust the OO when it says something you like but dismiss it if you don’t like it.
Can’t we offer a job to Paul? What about Minister for Fingering the Opposition
Centre, he is? Yep, i taught him well. Eat your heart out, El Senorita!!!!
dio ltep
you guys are on crack
admit it
Jon
You seem to have what a magistrate once described in one of my young male clients as “an attitude problem”. On the blogosphere principles of debate, you lose every time, failing repeatedly to address the substantive issue raised.
If you try to stick to the objective issue under discussion you will be better able to avoid “losing it” and devolving yet again to the easy way out – personal abuse.
Gusface
Where did you read this? I really hope it is true as I felt that they squandered a lot in the last Parliament by not knocking down the crap made against them. Of course a Liberal compliant media didn’t help.
I did like the comment of “That’s not true” by both Swan and the PM at the presser the other day when some w****r made some stupid comment about costs (if I recall correctly). There has to be a lot more of that.
Centre
If you actually read about climate change from climatologists, they don’t even bother mentioning what Wong says as she had so little idea that she was irrelevant.
oh
and you as well JV
Spur 212 @ 356
Yep …
Very true … and the signs are looking very promising so far …
Does anyone know what is going on with Boothby?
Peter Young:
I’ve taken your comments here at face value, which have been that you agree Wong exiting her ministry “would be a good thing”. When pressed you present your focus group talks which identify her as spouting “RWN talking points”. When pressed further you say this is about her stance on same sex marriage.
This can only mean that you are holding Wong, a gay person, to a higher standard of ministerial competence because of her stance on same sex marriage. Do you think Conroy should also resign because of his stance on same sex marriage? How about Gillard? I’m sorry, but that’s bigotry, and the very thing that Wong herself is working within the ALP to try to eradicate. If you want to critique Wong’s performance on the front bench, do it from a performance perspective, rather than one which invokes her personal life.
This is post-modernist cultural relativism gone mad. There was a cultural, religious and historical view that there shouldn’t be inter-racial marriage. Should we reintroduce bans on inter-racial marriage?
There should be a conscience vote on ending marriage discrimination in the current parliament. It will pass easily if there is a conscience vote. I doubt the no case would have even 50 members in the House and 30 in the Senate.
allan
i gave my email out and had a response from a greenie staffer
that was what he said
not moi but I liked it
Diogs,
You have never shown either loyalty or fidelity to any cause or person. Criticisng me for living those attributes is a cause for personal celebration and a badge of honour.
george
Penny Wong is not a true intellectual. She isn’t very bright. I know people who went through uni and high school with her and she was not the sharpest tool in the shed.
What has happened to Wong no doubt is that Bitar and Arbib have focus group results from the western Sydney marginals and found some young men there are homophobic, especially against gay women. Therefore Wong must go. This is the new Labor way.
Um were they regressing or just following your advice?
The Victorian redistribution also cross the Yarra and bring the City’s new Dockland area into Melbourne Ports, whilst Melbourne Ports reverts back to its former Eastern Boundary of Williams Road. This has left Melbourne Ports incumbent with a large portion of his personal support base no longer within the Port Melbourne. This is one seat that the notional ALP value will be interesting to watch. Given that most of the Dockland voters voted outside of the Docklands region it may be more difficult to calculate the notional 2PP. A comparison of the Senate vote should also give a good indication as to the likely outcome in the Victorian Upper House. 39% not 40% state wide is the crucial tipping point.
GG
That is completely wrong. First of all you would have no idea what I do outside the blog. And I have loyalty to plenty of causes and people, but I do not blindly follow a party no matter what it does.
Hello Allen, how are you? I love you, thank you.
Diogs,
We didn’t have to go to school with you to realise you’re not very bright and a pretentious poseur.
btw
on Gay Marriage
Why not call it
everyone wins
Gusface@381
yeah, don’t leave me out.
As for you, I reckon you stole a bottle of Pethidine at your surgery visit last week.
Good evening. Has the revolution started yet?
Diog, I wont even respond to that directly. Good luck with the operation.
Vik,
I wet myself watching that You tube piece
OK, thanks Gusface
JV
AHEM buddy
a trolley full sunshine
in for a penny in for a pound(ing)
TSOP
You have dumped Gir for Julia I see.
This is a case were the 2PP based on the Senate vote will provides confirmation as to which party overall won the 2PP vote. Once all the vSenate vote is data-entered it should be easy to do an accurate 2PP count.
Senorita, this is a family show
Diogenes, what is the worst thing you said about Julia Gillard?, I remember it well,It was nasty. It was not a good look. cowards were mentioned. Taking it back?
Diogs,
Only got what you’ve shown on the blog which is a shallow dilletante with a pre dispostion to assuming News know all and a personal enjoyment of salacious gossip.
Any news on whose on lateline yet?
If the ALP forgets about what the media and the Opposition say and pays attention to being a good government with great policies, the next election will be a landslide.
From what I’ve seen, it happens every time a hung parliament works and I get the feeling that this one can definitely work (especially as they don’t have to rely on Bob Katter).
PS Don’t spread the secret plan I outlined earlier for the Coalition. Just enjoy the vitriol safe in the knowledge of what I said.
Oh & how goes the AEC 2PP vote?
Pyne and Conroy on LL tonight.
When it does I get the Porche
Yes but Gir will always be in my heart!
Mick S @ 393
Well that’s very nice of you but we hardly know each other
Remind me
That is low.
How many times do we hear that type of statement rolled out to support a point of view?
Conroy (Mongoose) vs Pyne (Cobra)
Enough said
Oh democracy I see you answered my question, I withdraw my question on 2PP
#355
Wong does not “represent” the focus group in a constitutional sense. Nor does the combined Labor MP’s represent in a constitutional sense the focus groups of Arbib & Bitar. However, Arbib & Bitar use their focus groups to inform them of attitudes, which are then used to form/change Labor policy/actions.
It is fair to say my focus group had high expectations of Wong. They felt let down by her, even betrayed. That sense of betrayal, caused anger. It caused them to vote in a particular way. I envisage the same degree of anger against Labor would not have arisen if they felt the policy was formulated and defended by “strangers”, but when a perceived “friend” defended it (without promising to work to have it overturned), the loss of faith – led to extreme anger.
Ron
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 7:36 pm | Permalink
Diogenes
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
‘Any idiot can say they will spend $42B of taxpayers money to create a huge infrastructure project.’
Ron: “firstly you could get th figures rite”
Diogenes
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm | Permalink
“Finns If Conroy…. can say he’ll do it with $43B I’m sure I could as well.”
In just 29 minutes Diogenes found a billion a la Barnaby standard ,
And further he even reckons he could roll out one of oz’s biggest infrasturcture & tech & econamic projects th NBN including planning rite up to current operational roll out
Fortunate that history will record Conroy as oz’s greatest Comunications Ministers
red
the porche?
oh ok
can I have the verandah?
Pebbles indeed it has; the Liberal supporters are revolting.
Victoria @ 410. Do we get extra Qantas FF points if we watch? Although Pyne with the mute button on could be bearable.
Senorita, the Three Amigos are present, we are missing the fourth Amigo Vera.
steve/TSOP
not only are the Lib supporters revolting, they are apparently making threats as well.
“s”
especially up close
The ugly stick wasnt spared that day
redwombat, I’ll drive shotgun
Finns,
I feel an Amigo annointing coming on.
steve,
that should read “truly revolting”
Allan Moyes
If you watch Pyne tonight. You should be entitled to double FF points at the very least!!
Dee
It’s a fact. You might like to live in a fantasy world where you discount any information you don’t like but I don’t.
Now that the euphoria of surviving a near death experience has passed and sobriety has returned, what is the real state of play in oz politics.
The next couple of years may well make or brake Labor for a generation to come, the challenges it faces are very signifant indeed, how effectively it meets these challenges will depend on what (if anything) it has learnt from it’s dismal peformance on August 21.
What will make the task even more difficult is that this government is not even the master of it’s own destiny.Tony Windsor’s freudian slip at yesterdays press conference let us know why he really backed Labor – he is a shrewd operator and will cause us a lot of headaches.
The party itself is being stretched to it’s limits ideologically, it’s middle class base drifting “leftward” to the greens whilst it’s anglo working class vote – at least in Queensland, Western Sydney, and West Australia is drifting to the right.
Will Labor start taking a serious look at the demographic, and related ideological challenges it faces as we move into the the second decade of this century, or will it be content with carving up the spoils of a very meagre victory.
If the answer is the latter then this victory will merely have delayed the inevitable by two or three years, and jaundiced view will indeed see his “split”.
What’s wrong Diogs?
jv @ 389 That’s nuts!
I thought you two would be happy with a greater representation in the parliament?
Senorita, keep up the good work
red
OK
well i still want the verandahs
Diog, why are you so extra annoying tonight?
Gee Diogenes, you really are an unpleasant fellow…….aren’t you???
So have the sorry arse Libs that lost their seats (that’s you Jason Wood) left the building yet?
Pyne – Bearable nope doesn’t fit, do not compute
Now that the euphoria of surviving a near death experience has passed and sobriety has returned, what is the real state of play in oz politics.
The next couple of years may well make or brake Labor for a generation to come,]
Situation normal then
they tried that. it didn’t work out so well.
Victoria
Victoria, you always get a few hotheads when big decisions are made but once they see Rabbott relected unopposed and firmly entrenched as Official Opposition Leader they will settle down to the world they know and love. It’s just a few people gave them a little false hope for a while.
markjs,
Diogs is having trouble adapting to a world he advocated.
No they skipped out on the good policies front.
Labor in front by about 1200 votes nationally at about 9.30.
In Dennison they are now reporting counting of 2PP for the some of the declaration votes – see
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionScrutinyForInfo-15508-194.htm
One does not have to be “the sharpest tool in the shed” at school or uni in order to be a good minister.
FWIW I think Wong did a very good job. She came within a whisker of delivering us a price on GHGEs, but was stymied by the Liberal leadership change. Claims that she couldn’t consult or negotiate are clearly wrong in this regard.
maybe you should ring oakshott and windsor and tell them.
Rod Caneron – look at me look at me
Dr Bogan @ 439. You’re right. On reflection I’ll pass on even double QF points.
Fessions
I well remember chainsaw following pen like a puppy
Finns
Someone has to re-introduce you people to reality, which seems to be a painful process. I would have thought that Rudd being dumped by his own party when everyone here had cheered on everything he did might have taught them how foolish it is to ignore reality but some peoples biases are clung to very tightly.
steve
I am counting on things settling down. I just think the MSM are trying to create a narrative for the long term. “Instability”
Rod, thanks for that pleasant news, pedro you’re not an evil young Lib are you – copting that MSM crap, if you are chingate pendejo if not, disculpame
This from wikipeadia
“They typically avoid the cobra and have no particular affinity for consuming its meat……..The mongoose emits a high-pitched noise, commonly known as giggling, when it mates’
ltep, I heard the “I” word was used today. I hope this isn’t true. I pleaded so hard to make sure we didn’t use it if the decision didn’t go our way, I was hoping the Libs would do the same and not undermine our system like that…
Remeber Abbott was a Rhodes Scholar – you don;t get that without a few academic A
Intelligence turns out not to be everything
cept me of course
Dr B
I like the cut of your jib
I’ll pay that!
I dont think Wong lacks talent but she is cautious.
Attacking her for not disagreeing with a Labor policy is hardly fair. However she could have said – there are a range of views in Labor about gay marriage, the majority position is that marriage should be…..That shows that there is a debate occurring and encourages people to join the debate rather than just sticking with a party line.
Labor conferences are supposed to debate such issues. Lack of debate is one factor that stops people joining political parties.
Hi Squiggle,
You over the disappointment.
How do the Libs re group.
Finn I await annointing as amigo with baited breath & contented heart
Unfortunately not Pebbles. I’ve started up an “illegitimate” tally. So far I’ve only spotted the 1 surprisingly.
Hockey believes they’re still a government in waiting,
Very pleased to see Rudd will likely get Foreign Minister.
I mus say, I’ve been stunned at the churlishness of those who would seek to deny him that, after he took Labor to government in 2007.
Gus: I remember her slaying all before her in the Senate during that final sitting last year. All these apoplectic ageing white men humiliated each time Wong addressed the Chamber.
If I was an evil young lib why would I waste my time here ,I’d be checking what the ftse was doing.
I think you can add “illegitimate” there. I’ve heard that term a lot today.
Possum was right on the money.
It’s amazing the double standards here. There is continual criticism and abuse of non-Labor pollies or journos, and when one Labor pollie is criticised you all start whining and sooking about people being mean.
Diog, I reckon if you lie down on a comfy couch, put on Sex in the City, good bottle of wine in hand, and let all that pent up emotional anger come out (have a really good cry now) you’ll feel a lot better.
Utter nonsense – she was stymied by the gutless capitulation of Rudd/Gillard, the inevitible failure or Copenhagen and the common sense of the Greens
Frank #
You must have better eyesight than me. I have read the words from the article 3 times and:-
* I can see where she says what the party policy is.
* I can see where she says she respects the party policy (I’ll take that as meaning she is bound by it)
* I can NOT see where she says:-
a. She personally disagrees with it.
b. She will work tirelessly to change the policy by which she is bound.
(It was the lack of a&b that people were really angry at, a sense of personal betrayal that counted most)
If a. and b. are in your quoted words then you might like to point them out. I might be going blind…
GRUMP GRUMP GRUMP
Think I;ll back Diog from now on
Vernula Publicus
Two of my cousins were Rhodes scholars. One went on to fairly lofty heights in his profession, the other languished in a dead-end job, so as you say, “intelligence turns out not to be everything”.
Dio
If you are not careful you are going to outdo Play School with your retorts.
I don’t know how many times I have heard this statement rolled out by so-called former classmates of those who end up in high profile or high ranking positions.
It’s the ugly Tall Poppy Syndrome.
leftye
kev is happy
thats enough for me
others may want to creat a gollum
For you: http://tinyviolins.com/
Diogs,
That’s your rationalisation for appalling behaviour?
No wonder no one takes you seriously.
That’s treason talk! I’ll have you hanged for this!
Dr Bogan
No way! I’m not having five amigos getting stuck into me, although vera seems to have joined me on the fence.
Yes. She became a hate figure by the climate sceptic faction of the Liberal Party who openly referred to her as High Priestess Wong and claimed she wanted to burn people at the stake.
P. Vernula
You are a compadre
(we have better parties)
Not all of us Dio be fair,
no offence intended Pedro
We actually already know what the two-party count in the polling booths from Denison will look like, as they conducted one on election night before they realised it would be Labor versus Wilkie. These were the among the figures the AEC famously removed early last week. I don’t have them immediately to hand, but they were about 66-34 in favour of Labor.
Rod Cameron – Mindless Repetition of Meaningles Slogans bad
thanks – perhaos you could mention STOP THE BOATS
She has said that, and has admitted that she has a difficult challenge ahead of her if she is to change views within the party.
According to Graham Richardson they do, and it is members like Wong who have had a strong presence in trying to flip the status quo within the party on gay issues.
Gusface
GREAT – never been in a gang before
Any banks we can rob
Bullsh*t! Most people 70 & under belong to the war-time-Boomer generations – the R&B/ Rock. anti-nuclear, hippy, anticonscription/ antiwar, “save Cooloola/ Fraser Is/ The Rocks/ Lake Peddar” generations – have been & are still predominantly LP/ Green voters.
When Whitlam was elected in Dec 72, one had to be 21 (ie born before Dec 1951 to vote. So just how old now are those who maintained their rage? Do you genuinely think they’d ever vote for Abbott?
Read some history. Do your maths. Slur someone else.
Get a life.
Not any more!
Of course they do. They won’t learn a thing from this election (except where they went wrong strategically.) Credit the Labor party for realising it has a bit of restructuring to do, even though they won.
As for their claims of “illegitimate”, to quote Inigo Montoya (appropriate because I have heard inconceivable used a lot):
Some of us weren’t old enough to vote in 75 but we still have the rage
Given the polling suggests older people favour the Coalition, yes.
Diog, the reality is that Labor is still in Govt. It is in the hands of Julia Gillard and her 50 Thieves to rectify the wRONgs of the past and do better. It is 100% better than Abbott and his 40 Thieves with his inane chanting of “Stop The Boats”.
I love my thieves. You dont even have any thieves to love, that is your problem.
Hay GG, disappointment is there in the heart, but the head says big inroads were made and to look forward, not back.
The Ruddslide looked like a three term victory in November 2007. Two years of the ALP at 60-40 in Newspoll seemed to confirm it.
Now we’ve got the ALP exhausted after crawling over the line, a wierd mix of ALP/Wilkie/Greens/Rurals and, with Tony A in the leadership, just the man to divide and conquer.
Its not too bad, but yes, a bit disappointing though
Nah, we just mainly have dance offs with rival gangs…
pluuze eggsplane
confessions 485 – the Q and A session with Wong and Richardson was quite illuminating but I thought Wong on that occasion could have put a position similar to Richardson and helped the debate rather than appear to say the issue is not for debate?
George @ 469
Technical question from someone who prefers drinking wine from a glass. Is is possible to “lie down on a comfy couch” with a “good bottle of wine in hand”? Wouldn’t you just spill it and waste a good drink? As you can tell I have little experience drinking in the reclining position.
Diog, yes, you gave your the chance, but you blew it. So dont come crying back to Mama.
TSOP
dammit
you gave away our innermost creed
disco at dawn dude!
And who is that? So far I’ve seen Arbib, Shorten, Conroy and Wong come in for criticism. I’ve agreed with criticism about Arbib and Conroy, but have defended Shorten’s and Wong’s performance on grounds of competence and ability (and Wong criticism on grounds of bigotry as a side issue).
William, do you have any idea how long it should take for a recount to be completed in a division like Corangamite?
OzPol as a late baby b(l)oomer I agree older generation not source of all bitching about outcome of election, but there are also some older rusted on Fibs supporters who will start dying off before to long & there’s a lot of youngsters out there just saying no to the Fibs (not all of them of course).
JV you just repeat the same thing with impotent rage over and over, you don’t raise substantive points, just empty grand sweeping tosh. You’re “point” about labor primary vote is based on one election extrapolated forward to fit your assumptions.
39.44 % in 1990
37.84 % in 2001
37.6% in 2004
43.38% in 2007
35.2% in 2010
You interpret this as an irrevocable fatal decline for labor because it fits a prejudice you have.
The campaign was crap, Rudd couldn’t communicate to save himself, literally. It is more complex than the black and white view you seem to have and spout with monotonous regularity.
Wong is bright and well spoken, if only we had more like her.
Finns
I am ecstatic with the result, esp with Wilkie, the Greens and the two Indies being part of it. But that doesn’t mean that ignoring every problem and dismissing any criticism is a sensible strategy.
BTW have you bought that David Mitchell book yet?
damn, you got me there….. ok, what about this: I meant a “recliner” when I said “couch”… (I think I got away with that)
Centre@433
Mere idle cheeky speculation on my part centre, although obviously you found it quite believable. Apologies.
Anyway, don’t say ‘nuts’ at the moment with Gusface around – he’ll be crushed.
Squiggle,
Bad news for your side is the model Labor will use is Victoria 1999.
Unexpected victory followed by a smasharooing of “Government in waiting” Libs.
Generalisations about age groups or any group are hopeless. Just because >55s tend to vote coalition says nothing about the people who supported Whitlam. Half of them are dead now. And unfortunately Labor voters tend to die much tounger on average.
503 – Or jv is correct and 07 was a work choices inspired abberation.
JV
more the pointy end of town
but really
what point are you trying to make?
srsly!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/after-two-hectic-weeks-gillard-can-at-last-draw-breath-20100907-14znq.html?autostart=1
Diog, this brings home the bacon.
Wakefield @ 496: I recall Wong was featured on 4Corners or a similar program which focused on her private life.
The Manager of Opposition Business, Princess Whine on LL now
MUTE BUTTON NOW
With the average age of the Libs in parliament do they hold their party meeting at a lawn bowls club?
I with you on that last comment Dio, helathy self-criticism is vital to the health of any party, let’s hope the Fibs can’t do this & thus, self-implode – there are already promising signs (not that I’m cheering or anything, ha) I guess the cost of this comment is to be denied honorary membership of amigo status? drat!
testicular is completely different to prostate
just so you know in advance
confessions
My comment was a general one. The culprits know who they are, and you are not one of them.
And before Gusface asks me, no I will not name names dammit!!
JG never elected by the Australian People to be Prime Minister and the government has no legitimacy.
BITE ME
Poodle looks like a ventriloquist doll. The mouth is moving, that is all.
prissy
I feel good
Boy Blubber on LL
Note – I was quoting Prissy (unfortumately can lip read and mute buttton didn;lt help)
Dio
your saving grace from a gusification is your support for Obi
I know we can save you
Finns,
And makes Conroy the genius behind Labor’s victory.
The Robber Bunny has backed down the New Great Big Black Hole and won;t challenge.
usface and TSOP
Can we hold the next dance off on top of Prissy’s head
George
Nice to chat with another of G/Cypriot heritage.
Goodnight all & you too Dio
I knew it couldn’t be long: first Hitler downfall spoof on Abbott.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX99gwUQ1rs
Senorita, the key attributes of the amigos are: “We ride, We fight, We love”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJmesqycoQU
Diog failed because he aint love
#384 Confessions.
You really have grabbed the crocodile by the ears. You are now ascribing to me personally the views of my focus group ……. but I am sure thats just an error.
However, in any event you fail to grasp of the nettle of what i have been saying….it’s the feeling of betrayal that caused the anger….not some form of bigotry. Maybe you should come and meet the focus group and explain to them that their attitudes are based on bigotry. I am sure they will be thrilled to learn that.
As for Conroy, i am sure certain special interest groups such as the RWN religious people would be just as outraged if Conroy now came out and said the filter would be dropped and he respected the party policy, unless he got a message to them that he believed in the filter he had pursued so vigourously on their behalf, and he would work tirelessly to have it reinstated.
I am not sure whether you can understand the concept of “expectations” and “betrayal” that I am attempting to articulate, or whether you have either personally experienced such concepts or seen it operating in others. If not, then I can understand how you cannot understand what I am trying to say, and thus must find some other explanation e.g. bigotry, for what has happened.
Gus
If you can take a few steps towards nuclear, anything is possible. Actually you were the only one who said you’d respect the Indies right to decide for the Libs, if that was how they went. So you are a lot more reasonable than I thought.
P. vernula
Its booked until 2013
I tried belive me I tried
Smacked bottom has a standing booking I hear
Jon
slightly better.
You apparently believe that given the large drift of primaries to the Greens in 2010, and the apparent course being fixed in the party to sail away form the left/progressive vote, that it will be a ‘natural’ readjustment for the Green vote to come back, and the Labor PV to revert to a place where a parliamentary majority is normal too.
I don’t see why that will just ‘happen’ the way things are. It would require a complete change of direction, totally at odds with the world-view of the current bosses with the party in their firm grip.
Lefty e, have seen that video in so many different takes, but the nazi uniforms seem to work well here, no?
I wonder about the wisdom of the LNP attacking the independants.
In the previous term they could control the govt in the senate with fielding. Now they have lost control of the senate and can only be relivant by wooing the independants on specific issues.
They seems to be pushing the independants into being more strongly supporting Gillard
Dr charges port glass to toast right royal pyne in the arse as lateline about to start over here in Boganvillia
Dio
my jedi won over my dogma
Works a treat George!
Pyne is such a hateful little weasel
I would rather jam knitting needles in my eyes and ears than listen/watch Pyne
pouvoir
has Pyne said something useful again?
OzPolTragic, I was born in 1965, feeling a bit tired.
Gus, can we have a peek?
Toasting Poodle with red (his favourite colour, not)
Huh?
Gusface
Of course, the problem would be at the pointy end.
Use a laser pointer.
Kumbaya
the rallying call of the US Neocon
Pyne is really a twig
Tell me he wasn’t the kid that got the bejesus belted out of him at school
The Abbott reacts to the independents Downfall video is better than the average Downfall video because some of the words (single ones at the end of some of the sentences) are the same as in the actual dialogue.
No, he’s just inciting hatred as he no doubt did with a nasty little clique at high school
“Bite Me” Americanism rough translation f… me
TSOP
I was quoting Prissy
The bite me was my own
Notice how the other day he had a big grin on his face? I’m sure he was certain by then that they had it in the bag!
more “f… you” surely
Ah, I thought your account was hacked or something
TSOP
What is better than winning by a landslide? The Libs losing by a whisker!!
I reckon Pyne is happiest in opposition where he can whinge to his hearts content
” For anyone to think that the Greens will influence regional policy in the lower house is simply ridicilous,
they ought to go and get their head examined” Tony Windsor summed up those idoits perfectly.
See that old f wit Boswell, looks like he is ready to fall of his perch, fair dinkum when is going to gotten rid of.
Actually she was. 150 seats were up for grabs, with the electors in each voting for a representaive in parliament. A majority of those 150 representatives have decided on one of their number to be the PM. Gee I think they call that democracy Australian style.
Whatever happened to Abbott’s kinder, gentler polity?
no “f.. me what are you talking about?”
Itep
Abbott did not put it in writing. It doesn’t count.
The govt need to knock this “illegitimate” line on the head. And soon.
The Libs are good at setting the scene in people’s heads. They did it with “pink batts”, “debt and waste”, and “school halls”. The govt need to counter this quickly and not let the meme get settled on people’s minds. It was a fatal mistake during the last term to allow the Libs’ claims appear to go unchallenged.
If they haven’t done so yet, they need to hire the best strategic media advisers in the country. Whoever was in charge of that before wasn’t effective.
lefty e @ 530
It is indeed well done. The original film “Downfall” was pretty good too. Abbott wasn’t in that though!
PY: I’ve simply taken your comments at face value, as I said.
If you didn’t intend for that meaning, you should simply say so.
I worked for him in government – he whined there also
(must stop giving my fomer ministers’ names away)
What school did Pyne go to?
Prior to preselection he allegedly claimed he’d retire partway through his term.
Time’s ticking Ron.
PB would be a good place to start
Boswell was so effective they replaced him with Barnyard
Proof of the pudding is in the eating, not the pre-dinner drinks.
For me, I wouldn’t be comparing LOO Tony A to a Kennet-less state Liberal party that had just lost power, but that’s just me
I’d rather win by a landslide, personally, but yes I see your point.
Gary
I heard a constitutional lawyer asked the same thing. He said no PM is elected by the Australian people. The PM is the leader of the party which forms government so the argument that she wasn’t elected is completely bogus. But talkback is full of that kind of crap (I heard some by mistake!).
You know you could have got away with justified homicide
No VP
Keep that name-dropping going I getting a feel for your identity now
Are you betty windsor perchance?
Just reading what you folks are saying about Pyne’s comments are (1) making me feel sick and (2) glad I’m not watching.
Those of you who are watching deserve a special Poll Bludger medal for doing something above and beyond the call of duty.
Whiskers are good until suddenly someone dies.
TSOP
I would take a Labor landslide in a heartbeat. But imagine the Libs, so close yet so far. It is delicious!!
Adelaide Girls College?
Fiz
Completely agree. Either announce a few things or recall parliament and get the ball rolling (dunno how soon they can do that).
I would be delighted with the result if we were not reliant on the independents.
Windsor has laid his cards on the table, he believes Labor are in too weaker position to head to an early election, so he will enjoy an extended period of whip cracking.
With two rural independents holding the balance of power all this talk of gay marriage and the like is the stuff of fantasy.
Norhern Daily Leader
Princess Whine really put on a show
close
wait until I start on the Santoro stories
cud chewer
for the benefit of us who did not have the stomach to listen to Princess Whine. Can you summarise? Thanks.
Yep Vic, like losing the GF by a point after the siren! Love it more divisive for Fibs & Natties too
Indeed. I see, too, that Pyne tonight is still running lines about the Coalition “winning more seats” (they didn’t. Crook wasn’t a member of the “Coalition” at the time of the election and is still not today, to the best of my knowledge, though he agreed to support Abbott in government) , and winning the 2PP (they were not at the time he said it, and certainly won’t be by the end of the count). They were also slaughtered by the combined Labor/Green primary vote.
fiz 466
I have been trawling through these pages and when I read this one I freaked out – deja vu! Really feel I’ve seen it before, which given the circumstances is impossible.
Diog – what is the go on deja vu? is it a dominant/non-dominant brain thing?
Also – I feel like we need an internal Labor truce!
Squiggle,
So far the story is a re run.
Country Indepedents make a decison to back a Labor regime. Libs line up to hurl abuse. Nothing changes. Life goes on and Libs begin the slide in to irelevance.
I’m sure there’s a video.
That’s because everyone over 55 gets lumped together as a single demographic; under 55 are some Boomers, Gen X, Gen Y Gen Z. You get old, the psephologists take away even your generational identity.
How would you under 55 ers like to be lumped, for statistical purposes in the same generation as preschoolers? Does it make sense?
My mother-in-law is Edwardian (as were my late parents); my elder siblings Jazz Age/ Depression; my youngest a Boomer. Yet until we reach 55 we have generational identity – experiences & events which have significant effects on our “realities” and attitudes – different eras, different ethos, different music, different heroes, different educational & work patterns. Reach 55, none of that matters – you’re a single demographic.
It’s bullsh*t thinking; it’s ageism; it’s unfair, it’s junk demographics, its bloody bad market stats (boomers with the same buying/ spending patterns as Depression Era survivors – ffs gimme a break!) – and it stinks!
Pyene – school-
Prissy Boys Boganvillia High
I didn’t hear a thing as I was struck by her natural pristine beauty
This from Twitter
The Govt needs keep on spruiking about the how it saves Australia from the evils of GFC.
Arh the Libs…..so close……bit like picking up one of those really “hot ladies” in a Bangkok bar
I actually like Windsor and Oakshott, they have stood up to the media and whining bunch of Fibs and Nats intimidation and bullying and in the process been very good
at negotiating a better outcome for regional Australia and for executive government. It took courage to do what they did, immense guts and they should warmly thanked and allowed to get on with their lives and to allow good governance to occur.
Re Pyne , I’m not going to Nude School, Painters & Dockers can say what they like. I’m being not Christopher.
OK. I’m off to sleep.
Night Bludgers.
So, goodnight and godbless.
red
Do you mean hot “ladies”?
While I can understand the disappointment, what I dont get about the LNP vituperation is this:
If the minority ALP govt is “illegitimate”, what precisely would have made an LNP minority govt any different?
Finn
I really don;t think people know what that means.
HEALTH REFORM, CLIMATE CHANGE, BETTER AGED CARE,
this they get
I am of the view that this election result was the second best possible for Labor without spin.
Sure, I would have loved to have seen the tories experience a record defeat, and it would have been without any pink batts or mining tax fiasco, but if Labor had a moderate but clear win, the MSM would have destroyed Julia before the next election. The Indies provide cover.
Pyne and his school, he just looks like one of those private schooliees who just studied and studied and did nothing else.
I bet he was into elucation lessons, good manners and lessons on how to speak to people, he looks like the type who has never spoken to a working class person or been to a worksite or gone to Football game in is life.
Vernula Publicus
I was in the public service in Canberra for what seemed an eternity (actually 34 years) and worked under many ministers – too many to recall. Only one stood out and that was Nick Bolkus and that was only because he invited us to Christmas drinks in his office. Vanstone was a pain, she insisted on everything sent to her reduced to one side of an A4 sheet of paper – I don’t think she could take in much more. OK when you were preparing a PPQ (Possible Parliamentary Question for the uninitiated) but useless for complicated legislation briefings.
I could drop lots more names but I’ll wait until my scandal-laden autobiography is published with all the juicy bits.
I expect it to be remaindered in less time than Tony Blair’s will be.
They had more votes… no wait…
They had more seats… no wait…
They are born to rule… there you go!
Actually I did politics in HSC and was told that. As for talkback radio that will do your head in. “Intelligent discussion” and “talkback radio” have absolutely nothing in common.
george,
Kick it to me!
So dah Poodle thinks Gillard isnt the legitimate PM?
Well, having lost the 2PP, his Coalition having lost the PV to the ALP/Greens, and having fewer members of the HoR want him as PM than Julia Gillard, I’d say Tone’s had definitvley been legitimised as Ooposition leader by the Australian people following proper due process.
Suck it up Prissy!!
Vp thanks for revelations, here’s a reciprocal gift
http://flinders.edu.au/sabs/development-studies/
Really, if the Libs had any ethics whatsoever, they should be doing it. After all, it’s their camp that’s using the I word.
I have no problem with them opposing everything Labor does and working to defeat Gillard next election but to undermine the legality of the government is just wrong!
I hope the tories do keep on banging on about the government being “illegitimate”. The general public will soon get bored with that, we should encourage them to continue that line of attack for as long as possible.
Pyne in the arse admits deputy leader wranglings bad for Fib Party
TSOP
You were concerned that they would go down this path and they have. Should they go unchallenged and perhaps get people offside? Or does it have to be knocked on the head?
The answer to Pyne is, “Well, what you going to do about it”.
It’s a fire without ignition.
There you go again GEORGE!!, defining the ALP within a framework set by the Libs.
Its actually a good question, most new governments can claim a mandate for something…what exactly can Gillard claim she has a mandate for? on the back of this result?
She has no real mandate for any of her initiatives
So if the Independents sided with the Fibs what would it be?
marky marky
a mandate
She does if 76 elected MPs support them.
Squigggle,
The mandate will be fought out on the floor of the Parliament.
Mr Squiggle
So what mandate would Abbott have got if the indies had gone with him?
Hypocrisy?
Why are the Coalition so sore? They can introduce legislation in the lower house and try to win the numbers just like Labor.
Let’s see;
- stop the waste?
- pay back the debt?
- no new taxes?
- stop the boats?
Go back to being sore you useless frauds. They have no policies, they can’t count, and they stand for nothing. *gives Abbott and Sloppy the finger*
No one has a real mandate for anything. This applies to all parties.
The decision of the voters is for no one to have a mandate and time to the time negotiate every thing in the next 3 years.
This is the “new paradigm”
Mr Squiggle, mandate theory is a load of bunkum. Gillard has formed Government subsequent to a legitimate election and will go about executing government until the next election.
This is exactly the same as what would occur under an Abbott minority government.
Centre
Hear Hear!
*and instead to negotiate
Hypocrisy– perfect
JG doesn’t need a mandate she’s got Tim
for everything else she’s got 76 votes
Hopefully Gillard will be less willing to trot out the “get out of our way” line this parliament.
Which of you is Walt Secord please?
I certainly think the government, without being too arrogant, should correct claims that they are illegitimate. They should do so with the caveat that it’s fine to oppose them, oppose their legislation and want them defeated at the polls. But it’s just destabilising falsely claiming that the government has been illegitimately returned. Then put it onto Tone and co. and say that they should act like adults and be making this clear to their supporters too. This country is very divided right now and we need to heal that wound. etc.
VP,
Very Good!
This BS on mandate is exactly that squiggles. No one party in this country get’s more than half of the nation voting for them, so a “mandate” is formed while in government.
Thanks for playing though…
Only on supply and confidence.
Hear hear!!! – it’ll be like the unfilmed 11th episode of Steven Spielberg’s ‘The Pacific’.
People gonna have nightmares for decades after they live through it, trouble adjusting to society afterwards, write memoires and stuff, o lordy
P Vernula
sometimes i think I am walt disney
does that help?
TSOP
I think the only thing the Libs will do is what Abbott has stated. Be a ferocious opposition. He is good at that.
TSOP
I see you have adopted the Gillard avatar.
I was half expectng another user to nab it. He is now personalised avatarless – since deciding to dump the Rudd avatar (after that day in June).
The ALP have to mandate to govern executively but, legislatively, all 226 elected representatives have an equal mandate.
More seats, votes etc line rolled out again. Attacks Undies esp. Windsor & what he said yesterday. On election being forced? Opposition will be reasonable (can we have that in writing?) but sstill be a ferocious opposition, no frivolous no confidence motion hints at possibility if repeat of alleged incompetence of Rudd/Gillard govt. On bipartisanship, will anyone join climate change committe esp. you Pyne, No hippie kum ba ya smoking peace pipes nonsence says Pyne due to Greens influence. Raises Turnbull on climate change, near agreement with ALP, attacks integrity of ALP on doing Carbon Trading scheme, claims appeal of Tony is his conviction and you see what you get, attacks labor for not doing this (predictable). What will ALP do on climate change now, attacks ALP policy lauds Fibs so-called direct acrtion, why not do both, claims Fibs will support govt when good & attack when bad, why not try for a bi-partisan approach, Pyne Let’s see what climate change committee does. Attacks Windsor & Oakeshot again for not choosing for national interest (sleeze bag). Asks again about Turnbull joining CC committee. Rules out bi-partisan efforts in effect, attacks Greens, Wilkie & independents & so-called Rainbow Alliance, kum ba ya line again. Tony: so back to politics as usual
There you go what Pyne in the arse said
Gus
No (but its revealing) – Secord owes me money on a policy bet
I think that if the Govt is going to knock the “illegitimate” tag on the head, they need to be smacking down any of the commentators that try and run with it. Mercilessly. They will lose nothing by doing that as a lot of the MSM will be against them anyway.
They have assumed executive power according to the proper processes. To brand them “illegitimate” is the statement of a fool. But hey, is is from dah Poodle after all.
Its really not a good thing when a senior politician seeks to undermine our political process in this way. Yup, be annoyed at the result. I would have been if it had worked out the other way! But the process is sound and that process is at the root of the rule of law in this country. Pyne is a nasty, dangerous little tool. He should be called to account by the parliament for that statement.
Indeed. My 89 year old mum, who normally lives with us in McEwen and is registered to vote here accordingly , but happened to be up in Sydney looking after her 95 year old sister at the time of, and immediately prior to, the election, very deliberately took the bus down to the local AEC office there to get hold of a postal voting form so that she could, very deliberately, vote Green with Labor prefs in McEwen .
Took her a couple of hours getting to the office to get the form. (Yes, I know she could have obtained the postal vote far more easily, but she was determined to do it that way). Took her another trip on the bus to get to post it. All this with an artificial hip and spinal problems that make it very hard for her to walk a hundred yards in five minutes.
She’d never end up in a focus group, and she’d never be polled, because she is so deaf these days that she never answers the phone herself, but she’d be outraged if someone suggested that she was likely to be a Coalition voter because of her age.
I’m over 55 myself, and just about everyone I know well of my age or more actually votes either Green or Labor.
Nostrils owes me money too $100,000 wasn;t it)
Lucky for you Gus your friends didn;t answer when you thought about taking my 10-1 odds on the fibs
Dr Bogan
Thanks for the summary.
Am I surprised. No. It is business as usual.
Peter Young, I like Gillard. It’s not a hackery thing though. I have always liked Gillard and thought she’d be a great PM. While I was upset at the events of June, I was glad it was her that took the reins and not Swan or Shorten.
However, don’t let my avatar fool you. If she screws up, I will criticise.
TSOP is JG TSOP is JG
Gus – this means we’re dancing with JG
No she has not got 76 votes for everything else, the rural indies have not promised her anything other than supply.
Rod Hagen
Your mum is a champion!
Rod,
What an inspiration.
I love your mum.
I think their behaviour over the last fortnight was another reason the Indies supported Labor, they treated them as dills and patronised them.
And i love Windsor today they ought to get their heads examined,
what may they find?
I thought I was Wilson Tucky
No. If it is left unaddressed then the general public will start taking it as fact – just as they did the the batts, ber, and debt/waste mantra.
The Libs are actually quite good at weaving their memes into their interviews – much better than the ALP who tried the repeat-the-same-line-no-matter-what strategy. Remember those packages put together by the 7:30 Report that showed minister after minister repeating the same line: “Tony Abbott could be Prime Minister” for example. It is far too unsubtle for today’s audiences. The Libs seem to have had better training – they focus on a concept rather than a phrase, unless they have a killer word to use instead (i.e. “illegitimate”). The phrase – e.g. “pink batts”, “school halls”, debt/waste” – comes after the concept has been implanted in the public’s (and media’s) consciousness. They don’t use the phrase itself as the propaganda at the outset. Even “stop the boats” came about after the Libs had been banging away about ‘illegal immigrants’ for a few weeks before.
The govt need better media strategists. Desperately. Right now.
Night all.
If this was We3st Wing, the White House would go dark and let the Fibs tear themselves apart
But that relies upon a real media – DAMN
TSOP
I thought you were sophie M trying to atone for your sins
Fiz, I agree
they seem 100% on ALPs NBN policy, actually.
Some form of mining tax will clearly pass as well.
The rest will have to be negotiated.
DEE
Dee
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 10:25 pm | Permalink
Diogenes: ‘I know people who went through uni and high school with her and she was not the sharpest tool in the shed.’
Dee: “That is low.
How many times do we hear that type of statement rolled out to support a point of view? ”
Diogenes
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 10:28 pm | Permalink
“It’s a fact. You might like to live in a fantasy world where you discount any information you don’t like but I don’t.”
Usually Diogenes is a bit more nuanced in his feline anti Labor posts , whereas j/v th flowerpot just cannt help himself Its th later nuancing to ingratiate back to th ‘PB fold’ thats funny , a sort of Diog split persnality
The first sitting of Parliament can’t come soon enough. The Coalition whinged just like this in Victoria in 1999, but once Parliament got going, people by and large just got sick of it. And they still are! Hence Labor’s victories in 2002, 2006.
I look forward to seeing the new Ministry sworn in, and then the commencement of Parliament. The media will tire of this “Illegitimate” meme, but I’m hoping Tony and his cohorts don’t.
One thing for sure – they are making it very easy for any future independents to work out which way they should “swing” in the event of another “hung” parliament whenever there is a federal election in the next 10 years or so
Yep. “No more Mr Nice Guy”
I have no problem with them negotiating things and going through each part of the legislation, this is good governance and democracy and Labor i think should respect their wishes entirely. Actually i think it is great for the country.
Sorry victoria, my brain refused to process it.
http://flinders.edu.au/sabs/development-studies/
Did you get this VP?
Windsor supported Labor because he believes he has more power over them than he would the tories, and therefore can extract more from them for a longer period of time.
He comes over as a very crafty character indeed, and Labor will find him no pushover.
Don’t even joke about that!
“Gee, Clarke, how come you always seem to be missing when Superman’s around?”
Dr B
I think I did
Cuban cigars with your wine?
Yup, and that seems silly considering that a by-election could change the dynamic quite abruptly??
Pedro,
I think the decsion was more complex than just a power trip. But waving his arse at the Nats would have been an exhilerating experience.
In 2002, after Labor opposition Opposition Leader Rann got the support of independent Peter Lewis and thus had the numbers to form government, the Libs acted like completely ungracious cry babies and even refused to concede. It had to wait until a vote was taken on the floor before the Governor could be allowed to swear the new Premier in. And the kept the outgoing Premier, Rob Kerin, on as leader because they were hoping to milk an “illegitimate” meme at the following election (instead, Labor were returned in a landslide)
VP si Cuban cigars with my port
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/two-asteroids-to-pass-close-by-earth-nasa-says/story-fn3dxity-1225916141631
Now if one of these had hit, i’m sure that Pyne would have been claiming it was all Dogs punishment on us for having an illegitimate unmarried childless woman who lives in sin with a man as PM, and not his pure devout and fecund Tones!
Or maybe Fielding………
I know you are referring to Clark Kent but I keep picturing Clark Griswold (Chevy Chase’s character from the “Vacation” movies) when reading that…
The mail around the stock market is that the mining tax may not raise as much revenue as initially thought.
That means there could be some problems funding the planned infrastructure, tax cuts for small business, lowering the coy tax rate, and increasing the super contribution.
Maybe it’s wise for all in the Indies to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.
Night all
Got a country to run tomorrow
Night, Madame Governor-General!
Nightie Night VP
Greensborough Growler
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 11:45 pm | Permalink
“Pedro,
I think the decsion was more complex than just a power trip.”
yeah you nailed it GG
things like NBN , aBbott a CC denier & Windsor pro CC , 11 billion hole that he said was a ‘trust’ issue etc I think however he is wily , and how he will love llookin at those Nats from today …after sticking it up em a la Teddy
P. Vernula
Nite Mr Chavez
Cohiba Especiales I hope
I’d laugh a lot if Windsor gets the mining tax back on the agenda for further discussion at the upcoming tax summit. My understanding is that what Henry proposed was WAYYYYY more onerous for the miners than the deal actually done by Gillard??
Campaigning against the ALP could go down as somewhat of an own goal by the miners maybe??
imacca,
Rudd and Swan were looking for $12 billion. My prediction is that is what they will extract in the end.
I love how the media get into a frenzy whenever an asteroid passes the Earth. There’s all these “what if” and “phew!” comments. Even though Asteroids frequently cross the Earth’s path and come “close” (in space terms) space is extremely big and asteroids’ trajectories are extremely predictable. An impact event is highly unlikely (can happen, yes, but there is little to fear.)
Comets are more dangerous, as they are harder to detect, more unpredictable (as they get closer to the sun, they break apart and change in behavior) and in an impact, their damage is scattered)
imacca @ 687 I agree?
The miners are worried about the Greens in the Senate. But Julia did make a deal with the big mining coys and I think that will get through both houses.
Laura Tingle good article again today saving today’s Fin. Review for leisure reading.
Growler – If you listened closely to the press conference his logic was thus -
If i back the tories they will be back at the polls within twelve months, win an outright majority and this once in a lifetime opportunity will have quicly passed me by.
If I run with Labor they will not be heading to the polls anytime soon so I will be wielding unheard of power for an independent at federal level for an extended period of time.
I’m not suggesting it’s an ego trip,he would see it as like winning lotto – a miracle that will allow him to have a not insignifant influence over this nations public policy and future direction.
To Speak of Pebbles
Posted Wednesday, September 8, 2010 at 11:56 pm | Permalink
“Comets are more dangerous, as they are harder to detect, more unpredictable (as they get closer to the sun, they break apart and change in behavior) and in an impact, their damage is scattered)”
is there a Abbott comet
Hi Ron,
Yeah agree all the other items were high on Windsor’s shopping list. People don’t undrstand how much shit these guys have taken from the Nats in the past. However, they seem to be cultivating a good crop at the minute.
Darn, Rod Cameron has put a jinx on my focus group.
Veteran pollster pans Labor’s campaign
No, no Comet Abbott. (Comets are named “Comet Name”) But there is a Comet Thatcher…
Finally caught up skimming all the pages. For whoever asked, Pyne went to St Ignatius College Adelaide, which Wiki says is a Jesuit school, with a few campuses. Doesn’t say which one Pyne attended.
St Igs seems to have a broad mix of alumi, including…
So we can’t blame the school, it is all down to Pyney himself.
Just on the National Party, the penny may drop for the voters in their electorates given what the Indies may achieve for the people in the bush.
The Nats have been so impotent in their coalition with the Libs that they couldn’t get a pulse beat out of it if Elle MacPhearson walked past in the nick
*night guys*
Found interesting paper from 2002 on asteroids.
http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/120.pdf
Particularly about the frequency at which they do hit earth, and explode in the upper atmosphere with a BIG bang, and which virtually no-one who doesnt have access to the satelites designed to detect nuclear events notices.
On the proposed tax summit, i hope the miners are crapping themselves.
“People don’t undrstand how much shit these guys have taken from the Nats in the past.”
yes G , even Bob Katter when I watched his Presser , having already said he’d back Abbott only got reel agitated actualy quite angry at mention of Nats reactions !
he’s got heaps in past from Nats as did other 2
Time to test out this gravatar thingo …
Sorry, I should’ve clarified that I was talking about those that are big enough to cause an event. Crap hits the earth or burns up in the atmosphere frequently.
Newspoll
Queensland State Government
Primary Votes: ALP 29 LNP 44 Greens 14
2 Party Preferred: ALP 43 LNP 57
The Australian: Anna Bligh joins NSW Labor on critical list: Newspoll
Tomorrow’s SMH:
GhostWhoVotes@703
Hmm, leakage of LNP Federal Campaign linking Bligh to Fed ALP ??
#703
Anna Bligh’s government is about 20% more popular than Keneally.
Wowsers! Is that a plausible assessment, QLDers?
If so, considering they don’t have to go to the polls until 2012, if we see polling like this continue, we probably will see a challenge.
pouvoir
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:12 am | Permalink
“Time to test out this gravatar thingo …”
I’ve often wondered if everyone else started with my X , as a default avator
thought risk of changin it is you just might disappear in to cyba
To Speak of Pebbles@707
I’d take any State poll taken shortly after a close Federal poll with a salt mine – especially considering one where a State leader is linked to a federal one.
Centre
I am just waiting for that one too. The country party/nationals have done stuff all for decades other than act as handmaidens to the Liberals. Serve them right.
It’s a losing argument. Their answer is “fair enough, let’s go to the polls again.”
Anna Bligh doesn’t have to go to the election for about three years.
Be careful what we wish for, something will eventually replace the nats and it may well not suite our tastes.
Frank Calabrese
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:16 am | Permalink
“Hmm, leakage of LNP Federal Campaign linking Bligh to Fed ALP ??”
yes Franky
Libs very clever ran Fed adds saying Bligh was Fed ALP Pres and was Julia’s boss ,
so trying to draw a linking of unpolular Bligh govt to Julia/Fed labor
Well, its a losing argument for them in the end. No polls for the Fibs, sadly, unless there’s a by-election in a ALP marginal!
Most probably. I mean I wouldn’t be concerned over just one poll. Especially because they’ve still got another 2 years to turn it around. However, I have heard for a while about a growing dislike of Bligh. Wait and see, I guess.
Hi Puff!
Still not in power over a decade later though, and unlikely to change at the next election either.
WTF ?
Abbott offered a slice of power
sadly, yes it is (speaking as an ex-QLDer). Entirely consistent with everfyhting Im hearing from friends in Brisbane.
Bligh seriously screwed the pooch with the privatisation issue. She’s totally on the nose, and was before Rudd even went down. Nothing to do with federal issues.
All I’m sayin is that it’s useless gettin into this specific argument with the conservatives. Their answer to everything is to rip it all down, and then build it back in their own image.
Personally, I don’t see a problem with this at all.
In other words, if the opposition has some good legislative proposals, they should be allowed to propose them. They are trying to make the legislative independent of the executive. I wish the media would stop being cynical and treating it like “they’re letting Abbott in the back door”
Peter
relax the govt (yes repeat Govt) is just trying to make Rabbot look like he’s got nothing beyond carping to offer pushing him closer to the unhinging.
Queensland Newspoll post.
So if at least 2 independents back it then we can have 26 weeks and super in the PPL.
the Great Unhinging that should have said!
Privatisation issue, it’s just killed her up here.
No, Queensland is the only jurisdiction that still has three year terms. More like 18 months.
Hi Doc
thats the reality, Peter. I was trying to explain that to Nostrils as he waxed orgasmic about the potential for Abbott PM.
Of course, the obverse is true: libs can pass policy in this Parliament if they get 76 votes. Which is possible.
the question is whether they will – clearly that press release is an invitation from the cross benches for the Libs to pay nice. Im not sure theyll go along with it. They may try to make mischief with that opportunity, but the indis will sniff them out.
they’d need Crook, katter AND two more votes to pass anything.
Like we’ve been saying – its a whole new deal.
Still…. a long long long time, especially in todays climate. In 18 months, we might have gone through another federal election.
729
Bet they wish they had 7 year maximum terms like the UK until the Parliament Act 1911
They’d need the support of the greens in the senate.
Shutting Down for the night
Night all
It’ s sad really because she is the best Premier Queensland has had in my lifetime.
True, but only after July next. before that, they dont.
Let’s brainstorm some policies that the Libs could convince the other parties to pass then.
The libs just need all the rurals and they can get stuff through.
@Ron … you were right … I disappeared into cyberspace for about half an hour fiddling with my gravatar … couldn’t decide between the upheld sword and the sad little penguin.
Tim Wilson scorns the notion of a “Beautiful” minority “unity” government,, as this the same Tim Wilson that stood on a “Unity” ticket with Labor Party Lord Mayor Candidate (Missed out on Corangamite) Peter McMullin?
I know the principle here is to try and get the Libs to stop being a bunch of shrill lunatics, but there are inherent problems with this approach. How on earth do you get opposition bills to fit in with the govt budget? The Lib PPL, for example? And that goes for any myriad of other policies that could be put up by anyone that end up affecting a budget that the ALP desperately wants to get back into surplus by 2013.
pouvoir
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:42 am | Permalink
“@Ron … you were right … I disappeared into cyberspace for about half an hour fiddling with my gravatar … couldn’t decide between the upheld sword and the sad little penguin.”
glad you made it back , and your decision was very excellent , as it makes me tink sadly think of those US oils spills and what man does without proper enviro controls
742
The Budget is the main obstacle to PPL extension. It can probably be overcome though.
And the MSM Smears continue:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/broadband-champ-tony-windsor-cant-even-use-a-computer/story-fn5zm695-1225916116740
Fiz
I thought I read somewhere that bills which stuff up the gov’ts budget can get knocked back by the GG or something to that effect.
That was always going to be the case given the nature of this new parliament. Had Abbott been given the nod Labor would have had the same opportunity. The MSM is still yet to get used to the new way of working.
Constitution s56: “A vote, resolution, or proposed law for the appropriation of revenue or moneys shall not be passed unless the purpose of the appropriation has in the same session been recommended by message of the Governor?General to the House in which the proposal originated.”
i.e. The executive government has to agree.
what is this silly nonsense about passing the ppl re abbott is that the lib policy or what.
if so is this constitutional and if so who is running the country, the greens or labor or who
Tom the first and best
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:51 am | Permalink
742
“The Budget is the main obstacle to PPL extension. It can probably be overcome though.”
How ?
And anyway is not effect that govt then is not th govt , yet is responsibel for budget outcomes , from which interst rates , growth , investment and unemploy etc can flow , what a nitemare that is to try to gover ungovernable , labor would hav to call a new election
Frank
I submitted a positive comment but it probably won’t get published; none of mine have been so far.
Abbott only needs to bide his time, In 10 months time he can plot to seize control,
A by-election, death or disgrace or a collapse in the support offer of the two amigos and a vote of no-confidence will see TA become PM. Two votes rejected including a referendum proposal presented to the Senate and BANG we off to the polls with a Double Dissolution and a referendum. There is no value in rushing back to the polls now. In 18 months time Abbott would be in a much stronger position and standing.
The Greens Tax proposals will be seen for what they are when the light of detailed scrutiny shines on their “tax policies”.
If things are going off the rails than Gillard would be well advised to try and distance herself from the inevitable train wreck and jump before she is pushed. Both Labor and the LNP will be better off with a Double Dissolution at the next election after July 1, 2011.
I assume the PPL involves an appropriation.
Ron
Sometimes Sen Brown goes walking in pattycake-land; this time he thinks you can negotiate with a riled snake. I assume when the implications become clear, he will get the wisdom (fingers crossed).
Hmm, some of those Katter demands don’t need money though? Wild Rivers stuff? Indigenously title deeds? That registry showing foreign ownership of farmland?
lol… Though it’s 1am and I’m not thinking properly..
DatW
The party that dares to send the voters to the polls inside of three years will get shredded.
James J
That must be what I was thinking off, appropriation bills. There is not much that can be done that doesn’t involve money.
751
You are a minority Government and will do what the majority of the HoR wants.
Fiz
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:47 am | Permalink
“THE Greens and the independents have offered Tony Abbott the opportunity to help govern from opposition, saying they would pass any policies with which they agreed, including paid parental leave, whether Labor liked it or not.”
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-offered-a-slice-of-power-20100908-151cf.html?autostart=1
There can be only ONE Govt , responsible for budget & its econamic outcomes of rates growth tax levels invest supa employment exports etc etc its whole cup of tea in that pot , and for natonal security etc etc That Govt is a Labor Govt and thats what Wulie Greens and 2 Undys signed up for
So bob Brown’s above comments mean Julia will hav no choice but to call at early election as his idea makes Govt totaly ungovernable
and if ‘private members bills is back door method of running actualy Govt of oz , th effect is still th same…ungovernable
If bob Brown is serious , this will end in tears , and it wont take 3 years eithr by a long shots if bob brown realises how unserious his views is he needs to retract them before he is locked in on credibility of having to folow them …to darkness early electon
and Tom
“You are a minority Government and will do what the majority of the HoR wants.”
then fair chance you’ll end up with Abbott govt , with a HoR majority , then dont complain from a high horsey
It’ll be ugly, but it’s going to be beautiful in its ugliness.
I think, ultimately, the Indies will just have to trusted that they won’t do anything reckless. So far, they’ve shown themselves to be quite responsible individuals, e.g. Wilkie refusing Tone’s $1 Bn Hospital offer for Jules’ much lower, but affordable offer.
It’s certainly true that you might get policies enacted into law which aren’t part of the ALP platform, but that’s the reality of a minority government.
Ultimately, the key thing is to retain incumbency & keep the economy on an even keel. If both these things go the ALP’s way then it’ll do well in the next election, irrespective of whether the Coalition’s PPL plan is enacted instead of the ALP’s etc.
No, there are provisions to prevent that sort of chaos and I am sure bludgers with a more intricate knowledge than me of parl’t processes and the Constitution will explain here tomorrow.
vik
If it were that easy the Fibs would not be squealing like stuck pigs.
Section 56 of the constitution is pretty clear.
It’s not just a question of the appropriation bills – anything which initiates or moves to increase appropriations and taxes requires a recommendation by the Governor-General to the House, which in effect means the compliance of the Prime Minister.
Thanks William.
There is not much that can be done that doesn’t involve mooney somewhere.
money
If anyone’s interested (Dr Good perhaps), the election night two-party counts which the AEC earlier removed were:
Denison: ALP 36818, LIB 18661
Batman: ALP 44507, LIB 14714
Graydler: ALP 49295, LIB 20012
This pretty much accounts for the entirety of the ordinary vote. So the score in Denison is ALP 40067 (65.5 per cent), LIB 21073 (34.5 per cent), with 3832 declaration votes yet to be added.
Ta, William.
Damn. I was so enjoying telling people Jackson had obtained a 2PP swing to Labor despite losing the seat. On these figures it is a 0.1% swing to the Liberals and they are on track to recapture the seat in 465 years.
Kurking with intent, morning all
Oops not quite awake yet that should be Lurking with intent
Puff you are the font of wisdom this morning.
Not wise to call election for trivial reasons, greens are playing with Fibs, they are not seriously offering Fibs a role that they know it can’t play, money is needed, can’t simply over ride Qld. Govt on Wild Rivers, etc, etc. Meanime hope for & try to hasten Fibs self-implosion of which there are already signs, await with baited the breath the great unhinging oof the Mad Monk (aka The Wabbit)
Adelaide Now doing their bit for the Lib revolution. They have posted two articles today which are very anti-government. One is inferring that the Gillard minority government will ignore SA’s needs whilst the other is saying SA’s road needs are neglected by the federal government. They need to plant those seeds of discontent in this state and make it harder for Labor to have any luck next time round…
ALP now 1 267 ahead on 2PP
TSOP wonder if Adelaide Now will publish my comment on that article?
They might do. If it’s pro-ALP, it needs to either be very polite or make Laborites look like idiots. Any point that is well researched or reference, or calls out any fallacy in the article will be ignored.
If it’s anti-ALP, it just needs to have words in it. It doesn’t matter how false, unhinged or nasty it is. As long as it calls out the true cause of all of life’s problems: “Media Mike” “Dullard” and “Crudd”
Ooh and I hear the rumble of thunder in the distance. Omen of the upcoming political future of this country, or weather phenomenon that is known to occur regularly at this time of year to which I have just arbitrarily applied a superstitious political interpretation?
TSOP “rumble of thunder”
climate change dear climate change
Ron. There’s a difference between Parliament and Government. The Parliament can pass legislation not supported by the Government without effecting the legitimacy of the Government.
it’s actually a highly debated section and since it includes the words “proposed law” it’s non justiciable.
Puff at 766:
Winning the seat of Herbert?
(Sorry, I’m half-cut…
)
The problem with this is that it costs about 4.3 billion a year for one thing and the other is Abbott wouldn’t want Gillard to be implementing his policies.
Tony Windsor could be a real bonus for Gillard in some ways as his opinion will be sought after by the media and his level headedness will be a stark contrast to Abbotts style.
I should add that the view that s 56 matters are non justiciable is backed up by transcripts of the Constitutional Conventions in which it was agreed that provisions containing the phrase “proposed laws” were intended to be matters in which questions would be resolved between the Senate and the House of Representatives and merely a question of order. Use of the word “law” signified that that It must comply with certain conditions to avoid being declared constitutionally invalid.
Morning’ all
William writes -
is this to give the OO and Abbott time to get the new messages in about the ‘bad illegitimate, minority Rainbow coalition’?
The pieces by Possum and Bernard Keane yesterday should be compulsory reading and should be burned into our brains. After watching Pyne on LL and Hockey yesterday I reckon it’s going to get pretty ugly over the next few months.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/08/let-the-great-unhinging-begin/
Tony Windsor’s comments in response to Ron Buswell & Co were terrific.
Perhaps if the Indies and Bob Green can keep up their critical comments of the MSM we may see some changes. The journos treat them differently to Labor or have done to date.
Yep, and you can bet their thugs on the ground level will be mobilised too, to be as disruptive as possible.
BH
Good morning
ABC showed some piccies last night of Abbott at the Veterans’ Day in Parliament House. He couldn’t hide his feelings and looked woeful. My OH said “he’s just lost the extra money he needed for his mortgage!”
Another beautiful Gillard Govt. day, Dr Bogan. Makes me feel good to know that she is regarded as a better negotiator than Abbott. I never thought I’d see a female PM in my lifetime so this is extra special.
\
VP – so we can blame you for not doing the whining little sod in while you had the chance. Surely you could have organised some kind of scandal. ah, public servants – you can’t trust them to do the right thing.
BH:
Yep second that
Senorita, you dont sleep?
TSOP … do you have links to those Adelaide Now articles? I’d happily submit a reasoned and restrained comment and see if it makes it past the censors.
pouvoir:
This first one gets on my nerves. It claims outer suburb voters are getting a raw deal because, get this, the government may also want to represent the needs of regional and urban Australia and not just focus on keeping their mortgages cheap and babysitting their children. Then it goes on to claim that because of the independents Gillard has had to deal with, SA will be ignored. Here it is:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/middle-australia-losing-its-voice/story-e6frea8c-1225916113137
The second one, although it does make a valid point about SA being short changed regarding road funding (if true) it doesn’t hesitate to paint the Gillard government and the Rann government as entirely at fault for what is probably an oversight. The readers waste no time with their feral remarks:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/south-australia-gets-federal-road-funding-crumbs/story-e6frea83-1225916087157
Democracy at Work @ 753
Not necessarily. A by election could well result in another ALP member being elected.
That’s certainly what happened in Victoria in 1999. From memory, there were three by elections within months of the poll, all in what were considered safe Coalition seats, all of which went to Labor.
You can’t assume that ANY by election will result in a Liberal gain.
Why? A trigger for a DD does not mean that an election is called. Both Howard and Rudd sat on DD triggers for months and did not use them.
The only way a government can be forced to the polls in through a vote of no confidence in the HoR.
As for the referendum, I don’t think there’s anything saying that this will automatically happen at the next poll. It would be very unlikely to happen in a snap election scenario such as you describe. Referenda take time to develop – it’s not just a case of whacking down a question on a piece of paper and voting on it.
If you want to identify yourself with Democracy that’s fine, but it would be good if you actually showed some understanding of how it all works.
There is no value in rushing back to the polls now. In 18 months time Abbott would be in a much stronger position and standing.
Or if they reach the deadline of either house (ie term expiry)
Also, one thing that slipped my mind re: DD trigger debates. While, of course, you only need the one to justify a DD election, it seems that historically, governments who’ve opted to call a DD have collected a few trigger legislations. Which makes sense – if you are going to go through a process that could end in a joint sitting (the only time such a move can be used) you want as much rejected legislation to qualify for it. Although, interestingly, a joint sitting has only once ever occured.
Zoomster – or may be, and here’s hoping, he won’t be. The Nats may give him a bit of trouble if they feel threatened by more independents. Tony Windsor is right when he says that the electorates will come to realise that he and Oakeshott can make a greater difference than the Nats.
If we can get 3 years of good constructive Govt with the Labor coalition then Abbott won’t get a look in and 18 months may be enough too.
Are your paddocks drying out?
Sorry, the last bit of Democracy @ Work’s post didn’t get put into brackets – damn!
So mine should read:
No, sorry, there’s no evidence to support this whatsoever.
If he plays wrecker to deliberately destabilise the government, the indies will be pointing this out. They don’t want an early poll and will actively resent any efforts to force one.
Moreover, though many voters backed an early poll to resolve the deadlock, now the deadlock’s been resolved they would also resent an early election.
If he works constructively with the government, a role which would not suit him at all and therefore is unlikely, he will lose votes. (Look at what happened with Nelson and Turnbull).
Beazley narrowly lost to Howard in 1998, despite achieving a much better result than Abbott. History shows that that was his best shot, and Beazley was a far more disciplined and responsible leader than Abbott.
BH
bottom paddock’s still flooded but the rest are actually drier than they have been all winter – the flood seems to have sorted out some of my drainage problems.
There’s some interesting bits of debris – quite big tree trunks, one at least 10 metres long – poking out of the water, so can’t wait to see what’s under there.
Meanwhile, the ducks are having a lovely time.
Dr B
You and others might be interested in this site which was created by an “old journalist” whom blogs under the name Mr Denmore. He is very scathing of the medias commentary and might help direct those who want to effectively complain to areas where they can get the most attention.
http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/
Yeah, I will call out anybody who wants to speculate what polling position either leader will be in, in 18 months. It’s not like we just saw a 12 year old government scrape back in (where it’s a good bet they will be thrown out next time.) Gillard is relatively untested as PM, her stock could go up after she’s governed for a while. On the other hand, Abbott could hit the right chord with the electorate and invoke a “he should’ve won” mentality. We just don’t know.
any one who was around here between 12. 2.am, did your computer go down, with big pond, thought it was just me but may be not
just what we said,, then i thought he may be praying
i thought he had left crickey
You know, Tone, you did do a lot for the big money types in the last 8 months. I am sure plenty of those corporations would happily set you up for a highly paying position on one of their boards or something. Seriously, if you find yourself a nice plum position now and quit parliament, you’ll have that mortgage paid off in no time!
Geoffrey Robinson is taking up the cudgel against the Vatican, arguing that it shoudl be treated as a “rogue state” until it stops sheltering paedophile priests, and that canon law is really no law at all. Having served on a diocesan pastoral council before I became an atheist, I think he is right.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/call-to-treat-vatican-as-a-rogue-state-20100908-151cg.html
The abuse of power within the catholic church is no better than in any political party.
They just don’t get it, these whining Libs. The current government IS constitutionally legitimate. No more or no less than if the indies had gone the other way.
The PM is legitimate, having been put there by members of the House – not voted in a la a US President.
TPP has no consitutional relevance whatsoever.
The number of seats held by any one political party vs another is is no constitutional relevance. Rather it is the abilty of groups of individual members who can present a proposal of stable government to the GG that will be given a charter to govern.
So, Prissy Pyne, Sloppy Joe, unhinged one, Barnaby and others, have your tears, get the chin up and get on with the job you were individually elected to do. That is, represent your electorate, work constructively in the newly formed and remodelled parliament and do some good!
As for the OO, try being a responsible and balanced analytical journalistic organ for a change.
If NSW State Labor does one bit of good before being flushed from office, this could be it: they will get started on the Parramatta Epping Rail link. They need to start the tender process within weeks to sign a contract before the March elections.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/full-steam-ahead-for-epping-rail-link-20100908-151d1.html
BK what is your opinion on the above, is this trying to rein in the libs.
i am not happy with the above, what do you think and any other wise person here
Yes, BK, if the number of seats won by ONE party is the criteria for legitimacy, than the COalition has rarely had a legitimate government.
Why is it OK for the Libs and the Nats to get together in order to form government but it’s not OK for Labor to form similar alliances?
Because the Libs are ‘born to rule’ I suppose.
BK
I don’t think most punters have ever read the constitution, so those sorts of arguments, and Labor’s defences, will be a waste of time. Saying they won the final vote taly will be far more important: something simple that people can understand, adn that will prove Abbott was wrong on election night. Gillard should rub that in, given Abbott’s virtual failure to congratulate her on winning as tradition normally dictates. The Libs are quite selective on following traditions.
Even its political structure is that of a rogue state. It’s a non democratic (the conclave doesn’t count) theocracy. All it is missing is the illegal nuclear program.
my say
IT sounds pretty odd to me, particularly when directed at an opposition so antagonistic that they voted against the second stimulus package.
well that is a big reflection on us this country, it should be manadory reading in high school, perhaps its time we pushed this an also how to vote.
i have expressed my disquite to Sen Brown this morning think we all should.
One of those seats was Jeff Kennett’s seat of Burwood. What a sweet victory that was
TSOP
Agreed. If the crime of harboring criminals and criminal conspiracy were applied impartially to bishops, quite a few woud be headed for jail. Catholic theology says ordained priests and bishops woudl rather go to jail than break the sacredness of the confessional, but they much prefer to lobby politiicans to make sure they never stand trial instead. I’d love to see just one charged. There are several Australian candidates.
I have decided I will contact Pyne’s office today, not as a Labor supporter – just as a citizen, and politely request that he and the rest of the Libs not use the word legitimate. I don’t care if they oppose Labor and will try to block all legislation and beat us. However, giving the impression that a government is not legit just undermines stability and in the very worst case scenario (which I am not suggesting it will lead to) could lead to internal unrest – even civil war.
I am serious about this language needing to stop. Dividing this nation up like this is killing it.
my say
I don’t know about “wise” but I think Brown was making the point that in this parliament there is the opportunity for any proposition to be put, debated, modified and voted upon, regardless of the source of the proposal. Given the previous – and, by the look of it – current attitude of the Coallition, he might have been taunting them.
mysay
I agree. My observation about the MSM backlash is that it will only appeal to those rusted on for the right. Most of the young people at my work are very “over” the election now, if not sick of it. Unless they are interested in politics, they don’t want to hear it. So if I were Labor I’d just let it go through to the keeper, even laugh it off, make a poitn at the final vote tally, then just govern.
Off to work.
I see that Robb has raised doubts about the NBN costings
Anytime, anywhere clods like Robb, Hockey or Abbott speak about costings blow outs Labor must say loud and clear that “this is coming from the party that had a 12 billion dollar black hole in it’s costings which it tried to hide from the Australian people – they cannot be trusted with their statements and cannot be trusted with the running of the economy.”
Only through repetition can that scandal become like auto suggestion i.e. Think Liberal – Think Black Hole In Costings.
Finn, yes I sleep, quite normal hours actually but am an early bird.
For those interested in the media debate, check out my new blog here:
http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/
I think people are not so stupid that they don’t realise if the independents went with Abbott, Pyne, Hockey et al wouldn’t be claiming Abbott is illegitimate, hasn’t been ‘elected as PM’ etc. Sour grapes all around.
I’m also not getting what all the fuss is with the idea of the Parliament passing non-Government legislation. This happens fairly frequently in parliaments around the world. Do these people not know about the separation of powers?
unfortunately, ltep, it’s easier to get people against something than it is for something. Subversive rhetoric is easy.
1. Is there anything wrong with your life?
Yes – go to #3
No-go to #2
2. Yes there is – go to #3
3. Blame the government.
Sorry. It works better as a flowchart.
Socrates at 805 – sounds to me like you and I have trodden a similar path in life – ie parish councils and atheism. If you are ever in SE QLD we should have a beer some time.
People keep repeating the nonsense that Windsor’s saying that the coalition would be likely to win a fresh election means he has supported an undeserving government. Niki Savva just said it again on RN. The implication of this is that any time an opposition clearly leads in the polls the government doesn’t deserve to be the government, ignoring that we elect governments for three years regardless of their popularity during that time.
morning bludgers
It seems that Bob Brown is trying to curry favour with the Libs. Wonder what his strategy is all about?
Brown on ABC radio this morning saying that they won’t be able to put through any laws which impact on the budget bottom line, more ones which alter non budgetary items e.g. voting regulations
victoria: I think he wants their PPL scheme passed.
So, what if the parliament passes an expensive piece of legislation such as Abbott’s parental leave scheme? Where does the money come from, and where would it leave the budget and all the other government programs that the money was intended for? Who is running the country, the government or the opposition?
It’s okay if you go to the election with the alliance in place. It’s a little different if you form it afterwards.
confessions
Yes, but this scheme would cause a budget blow out. I doubt it can go anywhere.
The latest scandal from the Abbottariat: Julia doesn’t use a handbag!
And of course that means drawing attention to her never having carried nappies and baby gear around, because she’s barren!!!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/julia-enjoys-the-high-life-free-of-old-bags/story-e6frg6nf-1225916057081
So much for Abbott’s supposed mandate:
Latest 2PP figures show Labor leading by more than 1,000 votes
50.01 – 49.99
The MSM can take that one and choke on it!
confessions
I am not even going to read it. The “Abbottariat” has lost me.
evan14
I am astounded at the closeness of these figures. It is as close as a 50/50 split you will ever get. What are the odds?!
The Executive exists to execute laws passed by the Parliament.
On the question of who is ‘running the country’. The Opposition does not have anything to do with the execution of laws, but has some say in the passing of laws in the legislature. They cannot enter into contracts on behalf of the Commonwealth, cannot sign up to treaties; or any other Executive function.
It’ll be the Government’s responsibility to convince the Parliament to pass certain laws that affect the Budget one way or the other. They might do this by making public modelling on how certain laws will effect the Budget, in concert with the Parliamentary Budget Office. If the Parliament disagrees that’s just a normal part of parliamentary democracy.
Vomit alert!!!
Sophie Mirabella on Agenda.
One thing I want to say regarding the Libs’ PPL proposal: I don’t think the Libs would go for it at all. I think the proposal was created merely as a way to Santa Claus their way into power. And, as soon as they got in, cite budgetary reasons and drop it. I don’t think they had any real desire for real change in that area. And, if they did, they will not want it to get passed under a Gillard government – who could easily take credit for it.
Sure it might give Labor some budget nightmares for a little while, but they would be able to overcome that and look like the winners.
Spiers is doing a good job in cutting down the puff adder.
TSOP
That is why I stated earlier, what is Brown’s strategy? Is he testing the Libs on this policy to see how important it really was to them.
BK:
Speers is giving her a nice lesson in the Constitution. She seems not to understand it.
BK
Can you elaborate? You know I am weak and have difficulty digesting these Liberal Hacks!
ABC News Breakfast reads out an email from a viewer claiming the Government is ‘illegal’. These sort of people show how little most people understand our system of government.
Lynchpin
Interesting; that sounds very similar. I grew up in SE Qld and only moved to Adelaide earlier this decade. I met a lot of people in the catholic church I still remember very fondly, but found my dealings with those at the top quite dissillusioning in the end. One of the hardest parts of leaving the church was the loss of contact with many people that inevitably followed, even more so after I moved to SA. A beer sounds good.
I do like that Abbott and his supporters are certain that they will be in government before too long (if as late as the next scheduled election.) Let their SA Liberal 2002-2006 hubris level be their undoing.
If Gillard governs well, Labor improves its structure and drops this “cautious, demographic friendly” campaign style, 2013 should not be much of a problem. Especially if the Libs are still convinced they’ll win it in a walk.
confessions
The Libs page 3 girl, as you said, IS getting a schooling from Spiers.
She always was and always will be a nasty, poisonous bit of work.
TSOP
How can this dummy spit by the Libs be endearing to them. Only the rusted on will accept this behaviour. Most level headed people will not be amused. Another thing, are there any real moderates in the Liberal Party who are appalled with this behavior. Are any of them brave enough to stand up for the Party before they jump the shark!
triton
my comment is more related to the ‘legitimacy’ question – that is, the Coalition is stating that the SINGLE party which wins the most seats has legitimacy.
As they are not a single party, this is a bit twee of them.
If we are talking ‘which combination of parties’ then that’s different.
they need to make up their mind – either they are a conglomeration of parties, in which case the Liberals only won 44 seats, a drop of 10 since the last election, compared to Labor’s 71, or they are one party, in which case let’s drop the farce that the Nationals/LNP/The Nationals/CLP are entities in their own right.
ltep: Sophie Mirabella has used similar language this morning. She’s had the constitution shoved in her face by the interviewer in response.
But that is the kind of public reaction the flaming from the opposition will encourage. I was alarmed to hear last night that Windsor’s office had received death threats.
victoria
She started off sprouting that they had won the popular vote. That didn’t last long because Spiers told her that Labor was noew in front.
Then she moved to the next already tired argument which was similaerly cut down.
She’s a shocker!
The OO front page says “NBN to cost Billions”.
The sources: Mr Robb-adon and a Tamworth Dairy Farmer.
I kid you not.
hand bags for gods sake i stopped taking them to e.g. dinner etc a long time ago, my glasses are my problem and a nice handkerchief, which i still think is nicer than some dirty old tissue that crumbles.
thats why when i make my clothes i put a nice long pocket in my side jacket.
reading glasses etc or if casual just put the glasses on a chain.
Now going to the shops different story, love real leather even if is old, sunglasses wallet etc.need a bag.
what century are they living in or dont they have any news at the moment.
i would just them to say move on,
Brown on ABC AM was asked about the PPL scheme specifically and basically ruled it out.
Seemed to be saying he would support the superannuation part of it, if it didn’t come at a cost to govt (so employer contribution).
BK
I am surprised that Spiers did not allow her to get away with it. Good for him. Did it get through her thick head at all?
A great piece on the Lateline interview with Rod Cameron that sums up so well why the Labor campaign “experts” were so wrong in this last, terrible, Labor campaign.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s3006629.htm
As I have said before, losing 20% of your sitting MPs (18 our of 88) after running the most successful economy in the developed world, must be some kind of record for almost plucking defeat from the jaws of victory.
Can I ask a favour of Bludgers.
If your local MP, or an MP in the same city starts using language implying the “illegality/illegitimacy/unconstitutionality” of this government, could you please give their office a call and, without abusing the staffer or using partisan rhetoric, please request, for the sake of national stability, that they refrain from using subversive language like that. Inform them that it’s fine if they block everything or do whatever they can to legally take government back, just not to use purposely misinforming language that infers Gillard has illegally seized power.
One interesting matter in the course of the current parliament may involve the possible retirement of a number of older Coalition members.
The Coalition have 10 of the 11 oldest members of the House of Reps (the other being Katter), all in their 60′s (apart from Albie Schultz, who is 75). They are all in seats that Labor is unlikely to win in any by-election, but in the current mood it isn’t inconceivable that an independent might be successful in at least a couple of them.
Labor’s oldest member is Simon Crean. If he happened to retire mid term his seat doesn’t appear to be vulnerable.
zoomster
Thanks for the update on Brown’s position re PPL. I was getting confused about his stance.
The question is, do the opposition want to get involved in any form of bipartisan (with the Greens or anyone else) law making. They may decide their best option is to continue their tactics from the last few months of constant attack, obstruction and criticism. To hang it all on trying to delegitimise the government to their ultimate advantage. They have certainly started out on this path.
victoria
I don’t think anything would get through that head.
I see that Mme Kelly and RN Breakfast have given up any pretence at balanced commentary by having a Friday Panel (on Thursday) comprised of Nikki Savva, and a hack each from “News Ltd” and the The Worst. Needless to say they were bowled up dollies and proceeded to dispatch them to boundaries all over the ground.
Kelly makes the Pakistani cricket team look like they are trying.
victoria @ 848
I completely agree with you. In fact, we see the Libs carry on like this every time Labor win a minority government. And they’re always certain that they’ll win the next election easily. Of course it never happens, does it?
Are we fast approaching the time when newspaper opinion pieces are more important for their “comments” than the actual piece itself. That just becomes a coat-peg. This thought occurred to me as I chuckled my way through some of the comments on Barrie Cassidy’s latest on The Drum. Overall, he cops a pasting (with reason).
The Drum also seems to close down the comments sections pretty fast. Any reason why?
TSOP
Harrry Jenkins is my Federal Member. I doubt he would be spouting this stuff! If he retains speaker role maybe he could announce it to the Parliament? Lol!
Sophie Mirabella is my local member. She shall forthwith be dubbed “Puff Adder”, which is an excellent description of her. I shall pass it around to my friends, family and colleagues!
Thanks BK!
Obviously I meant Lib members!
That’s good to know. Thanks for the update.
TSOP
I know. I am just being silly with you!
i am wondering who in the next few weeks wil even bother going over there love to see the day when there are NO comments.
also Senator Scott Ludlam is the man to write to re the abc and what they are spending on drama and news and the charter. Had an email back from Senator Browns office.
People with actual experience in fibre deployment say the opposite of course.
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/359869/nbn_will_cheaper_than_43b_nextgen_chief_phil_sykes/
On a different note. Apparently two young guys in Melbourne stole a Black Python and Lizard from Pet Store and took them to a McDonalds and proceeded to scare the customers last night! If I were at the Macca’s store, I reckon I would have caused anarchy!! I am petrified of snakes.
Free advice to all: put fingers in both ears and sing lalala. The MSM and coalition can scream and carry on as much as they like. The only thing that threatens stability (and the only real crack) would be if O or W voted for a no confidence motion. All this hysteria will make them more determined than ever to make it work
I dont think all the MSM and opposition are that dumb- many know that if this does work, they could be out of power for a while
Fiz
Firstly, commiserations for having to be served by the lovely Sophie. It must be a difficult thing to bear.
My recollection is that Basil Fawlty, in one of his many troubled moments, referred to his overbearing wife, Sybil, as a puff adder. Mind you, she once called him a brilliantine stick insect.
rang abc news to ask them to give all their journalists a copy of the constitution actuly got a very good reception,.
Well it seems that the illegitimate line is well and truly entrenched now. The govt needs to get on top of this right now. They need to be churning out press releases galore responding to these claims so that every article has a govt response. Otherwise it will just become the new ‘truth’ – the ALP simply can’t afford to keep vacating the field when the Libs start creating their new concepts.
Where is the govt response to the illegitimate blizzard this morning? Surely they saw it coming two days ago?
my say
good for you. I hope the ABC lift their journalistic standards.
Fiz
The Labor Party are meeting today to get down to the business of governing. What are they to do?
Carbine says Gillard facing ‘serious instabilty”
NOW SHE IS DEFENDING THE BLACK HOLE
FMD
Gusface
What Black Hole?
After watching Sophie Mirabella on agenda and choking on my toast, I couldn’t help but be reminded of my first visit to Sydneys Kings Cross and watching in amazement at the ‘ ladies of the night ‘ plying their trade.
While on that thread, what about the Sky blonde bimbo out side parliament, in extacy over the appearance of Wyatt Roy, she was swooning and giggling like a 12 yr old groupy.
TSoP:
But being still in opposition I’m sure they’ll stick with it for a while yet, since they’ll be able to use it to divide Labor and Greens.
zoomster:
The Liberals and Nationals have a formal coalition agreement and in most respects they vote together and act like one party, and they go to elections with people understanding that. There is no corresponding alliance that Labor has. Greens and independents will vote their own way on everything. So it’s reasonable for the Libs/Nats to state their combined vote as their total. Where they fall down is:
(1) Using primary votes to argue for Labor’s illegitamacy, since we don’t have FPTP here.
(2) Claiming that Labor and Greens are a “coalition” but still using Labor’s vote PV alone to argue (1).
(3) Continuing to repeat that they won the 2PP (or, as Barnaby did yesterday, claim they were “leading” at the time the indies were deciding) when we’ve known for more than a week that Labor will probably win it.
So, their coalition argument is fine. It’s just that they can’t use it for any useful purpose without being dishonest.
Vic
wtte
the coalitions costings werent so bad
Gus
This is serious. The government needs to get on the front foot quickly and stay there. Don’t let a single ball get through. Not like last time.
BK
What strategy can Labor employ at this stage. They are proceeding today to discuss ministries, portfolios etc. The media and opposition noise can’t be stopped really.
just rang and complained
G’day Bludgers!
Currently it IS being rolled out to part of Windsor’s electorate; not only that, I know because I saw it on national TV! His electorate also contains the University of New England, Oz’s 1st rural university, its 2nd university (after UQ) to offer external studies, the first to offer external graduate studies in a wide variety of disciplines.
I should also add that education is one of Oz’s strongest industries, export earners & Balance of Trade contributors. As the world’s first developer of Distance ED both at school and university level, OZ is still (with UK OpenU) a world leader in the international delivery of Distance Ed (inc computer-delivered); but many of the main inter/national providers (UNE, USQ, SCU, JCU etc) are in regional areas with slow/poor BB services
THAT’s why NBN delivery was already underway in New England, and one of the reasons (with military bases) Townsville’s is also underway & Toowoomba in the 2nd round.
PS: During the mid 90′s, I was part of the initial Oz uni delivery of on-line graduate & undergraduate DE, including to numerous OS centres. We were still using inter/national phone hook-ups – with the promise of skype-like linkages just as I retired. We used to watch tapes of our OpenUni colleagues’ programmes for Africa in the belief fibre was but a couple of years away. Pity about Johnny Howard, who cost us at least a decade.
Ed would have been an even better export earner if he’d rolled out BB.
victoria
It can only be done by consistently stopping fallacious assertions in their tracks and countering with facts. Unrelentingly.
And with that I’ll sign off for several hours.
BK
Have a good morning.
David: I was reminded of Hollywood where stars walk the red carpet and get pulled aside by interviewers who fawn and simper over them. I can’t remember Sky doing this after the last election, it was exactly like groupies.
martin corbin is the ABC 702 sydneys program director
Looks like we can pencil in Crook as a genuine cross-bencher.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/pointless-to-back-abbott-in-opposition-crook-20100908-150no.html
If Wilkie or Bandt get Boslhie on any single piece of legislation then the ALP still have Katter and Crook.
I think this is where the ‘governing from opposition’ has come from:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-offered-a-slice-of-power-20100908-151cf.html?autostart=1
Anita Quigley in the SMH gives the new government a spray:
You see, although we didn’t know it, Tony Abbott was going to fix all the potholes in Western Sydney streets and get the trains running on time. It also seems that driving times to work will always be lower under a Coalition government. Lablor’s 90 minutes would have become … hmm… may be even as low as 85! Pity two of the Western Sydney seats that were supposed to be lost – Lindsay and Greenway – returned Labor members instead. Apparently the voters there, the “disillusioned in the vast tracts of suburban Sydney,” weren’t disillusioned enough. If they had been and gave the Coalition a majority, Tony could have had a crack at eliminating street crime in Werrington too, maybe even Cambridge Park.
It’s all because the country independents don’t have the interests of the country at heart. They want broadband, optical type, before the city. Hey, those rural internet users are already spoilt rotten with their 56k modems, now they want fast broadband! The bloody cheek!
While they’re concentrating on the narrow best interests of their electorates, they should have been concentrating on the narrow best interests of someone else’s electorates. Now, THAT makes sense, doesn’t it?
Oakeshott is a dummy, lazy and slightly sinister:
See what Anita means? Totally unsuited for office. He’s holding the country to ransom. I mean, it’s not as if he was elected or anything. He should be doing what independents do best: sitting down, shutting up and getting nowhere. How dare he and Windsor arrogate to themselves the right to actually have a say in how the country is governned?
Just because the Coalition didn’t win enough seats to form a government doesn’t mean they aren’t the only legitimate party to rule. We know who really won the election. Why a couple of seats – each won with majorities of about a gazillion per cent – should interfere in the rights of the born to rule is beyond me.
Anita wraps it all up with thi
Yeah, what a clever little Dick he is. He plotted and schemed for this, hung around doing nothing, not turning up for work, took all the perks, just biding his time waiting when we got a hung parliament. He’s a bloody disgrace, I reckon. There ought to be a law against the Rob Oakeshott’s of this world. Maybe Tony can think one up for the next campaign?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/behind-the-nice-bloke-facade-is-just-another-wily-politician-20100908-1519k.html
Time for work, later bludgers!
victoria:
This is where their media strategists need to step up. They may not be able to field out ministers to counter claims every five minutes, but there should not be deafening silence either! Press releases – especially to AAP who absolutely rely on them to create new news – should be flying out of those offices. It’s what you have staffers for, surely?
The ALP’s strategy of getting a couple of ministers to give a response in interviews, and then seemingly thinking that the issue has been dealt with, clearly hasn’t worked. The Libs keep building the concept until it is accepted reality.
As I said last night, if they haven’t already (and it sure doesn’t look like it!), they need to hire the best media strategists that money can buy, who can deal with the media reality that the ALP has to work with. The people they’ve got running strategy now are ineffective. This morning we’ve heard over and over the illegitimate lines – but where is the response? Also, they should still be banging on relentlessly about the Libs’ costings. Now is not the time to go deep and quiet!
BB
What classy muckraking
That is particularly indefensible by Carbine. At best she has done no research and is talking in ignorance. The ABC’s own economics correspondent, Stephen Long, explained why the $11B black hole had occurred, in this post:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s3000980.htm
Long said that:
Peter martin categorised the causes of the errors between the inexcusable, the inexplicable and the understandable. Some are deliberate double counting.
The “black hole” is not Labor spin. It is the exposure of a series of coalition lies.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2010/09/coalition-costings-inexcusable.html
Fiz
You are right that perhaps a Media strategist should be directing the govt to respond in an appropriate way as soon as the need arises. Let’s see if anything comes out today after the Labor caucus meet.
On the Liberal party’s PPL policy, my understanding was that the Nationals opposed it – is this correct?
Therefore, if the Nationals are to display any backbone, they would vote with Labor in the HoR against the Liberals+Greens (would not matter where the independents go).
Of course, this would show up what a ridiculous position there is in Qld with the LNP (and NT with the CLP).
But if Nationals vote for it, just more grist for the mill for prospective rural independents which look like an existential threat for the Nationals.
Time for Labor to come up with some nice wedges between Liberals and Nationals (in the nicest, most consensus, new-age parliamentary way, of course
)
Soc
It made me sick listening to her drivel
confessions@893
This seems like just another example of the confusion of some journos. It isn’t news – it’s the whole basis of how this next parliament will work. Apart from supply and confidence motions, which are the subject of agreement, any general bills will be voted on according to how the members of the House call it. A minority government doesn’t necessarily get its way. Other parties might carry the issue.
In these circumstances why wouldn’t the independents and the Green talk to the LNP to try to get support for their own initiatives (and vice versa) if Labor isn’t interested? They’d be crazy not to.
Some of the MSM still haven’t grasped the reality of the situation.
Squealing like stuck pigs, just hold tight the thrashing will stop once they have bled out.
There is very little Labor can do at this point that will be heard above the racket they just need to get on with the business of government.
Bushfire Bill: That piece looks eerily similar to an article David Penberthy wrote for the Tele not long after the election. Right down to the Western Sydney angle, and the commuting and paying for parking.
I live in Willunga SA, and am pleased to report that men/women and machines are going full tilt at rolling out the NBN (main road was blocked yesterday)………can’t wait to get connected!!
The first part of the fibre to the premises is done free of charge by NBN Co, and then it’s up to the ISP‘s to determine what they will charge for a live connection……….same as now.
Andrew Bolt has a way with words that really makes me like Oakeshott and Windsor more and more.
I Really Like his use of Capital Letters too.
@markjs/905,
Good to see, lets home they get more people on the ground to move more quickly.
More generally, has the National Party and Liberal Party signed up to be in coalition, now that they are in opposition?
confessions
Penberthy has a similar article in todays paper.
Basically saying the bush has got it good and yet now is trying to paint itself as the poorer cousin.
He then says ‘who is going to pay for it….’
It has more than a grain of truth to it. What he didnt say was that both major parties played this game and would have willingly diverted money to secure govt.
The other question is how could these indies succeed in drawing focus to the bush whilst the Nats failed.
TSoP @ 857
Hear, hear.
Baffling isn’t it? And it’s presented as if it’s some sort of bad thing.
I’m sure it has been mentioned but The Australian reports David Feeney is set ot take over from Mark Arbib as convener of the right faction. However, ‘murmers from the NSW right’ suggest they might not want the position leaving NSW.
Incidentally……it occurs to me that my electorate of Kingston could be seen as a very large “focus group” when it comes to the issue of the NBN……..
I haven’t checked the final figures, but believe that Amanda Rishworth achieved a swing to her of almost 10% (?highest in the country)……….does anyone agree with me that this represents a massive tick for the NBN?
blue-green: The stupid thing about these columnists is the coalition would be in exactly the same situation had it been able to form a majority to govern. I don’t understand why our media seem to be in a state of collective denial about the reality of the election outcome, and the resultant state of our parliament.
The astonishing thing – to me – is that we’re all getting used to the idea that the ALP are fighting the media as well. It’s becoming a given.
While on the topic, I’m not happy about this either:
Feedback is ok, but when it’s completely wrong, it makes no sense to legitimise it on air – unless you want to perpetuate that mistruth. No branch of the ABC ought to be indulging in that kind of malarkey. It suggests to me an intentional dumbing-down of their content.
In my experience, rosa, a preponderance of posts indicating ALP/Green views.
Sometimes RW “letter writer” brigade are slow off the mark (all comments have posting time on them) and there will be a long list of leftie comments – or replies to rightard ones. Then, quite suddenly, there’s a flood of rightard ones, inc replies to original posts. When they start to predominate, you know comments are about to close. The same used to happen on some Murdoch papers’ comments. In the Hun, it still does, especially if the article’s an early posting. The lefties are the majority, sometimes for hours. Then it’s almost as if there’s a text/etc to a key rightard, and the flood starts! Get suspicious if the posting chronology is reversed – latest first!
I actually tracked this at one stage, so I could post the analysis; but family matters derailed it. I used to enjoy watching “comment” sections which somehow eluded the RW “letter-writers”. Sometimes they’d stay open for long hours (even days) before the rightards arrived; sometimes “Comments” would simply disappear. I haven’t resumed tracking, so I don’t know if patterns have changed.
Quigley has a blog at the Daily Telegraph.
And just on that – they can’t talk 2PP any more anyway. They can’t talk seats unless they want to get into a dispute about the difference between, say, Crook and Wilkie (fundamentally there is none).
And on primary votes, somebody might want to query them as to exactly how many seats they’re advocating for the Greens, then?
This deal is not good enough for the bush
This deal is too good for the bush
You hear it on ABC local radio all the time. Apparently all opinions are valid, no matter how factually wrong. Goulburn Murray’s Joseph Thompson is a particularly egregious culprit. He allows outrageous comments to go unadressed by saying wtte “we accept all opinions here at the ABC”. Sometimes I want to jam his microphone up his nose.
Let’s see, what would the Greens be supporting Abbott on?
Paid parental leave upgrade? (Labor would probably compromise on this)
Gay marriage?
Treatment of asylum seekers?
Sacking 14,000 public servants?
Wild Rivers legislation?
Reducing company tax?
Getting rid of the mining tax?
MDB water?
Allowing fishermen to decide where, if any, marine parks will go?
Continuing the war in Afghanistan?
Allowing the market to cobble together a broad band?
Brown is having a go a white-anting executive government with his invitation to Abbott. But he is waving around a dangerous petard. Abbott might well take him up on it in relation to some populist measure or other. Budget management would also go out the window if sets of third parties started passing legislation requiring appropriations.
I an’t see the public putting up with it, which would suit Abbott but perhaps not Brown.
There is another interesting element in negotiations here. The Greens apparently refuse to do trade offs except within the topic area. So, they will not trade off some marine parks for allowing in asylum seekers. This considerably reduces both their flexibility and Labor’s capacity to negotiate.
Let’s hope it is just a rush of Bob’s ageing blood because if he keeps up the silly buggers he won’t be getting my vote next election.
It is interesting the Crook has confirmed that he will sit on the cross benches. I suspect Crook wants to get pork for his electorate, without obviously voting for the minerals tax. I get the feeling he would be happy for the minerals tax to get up, and then ask for a share of it for his electorate. The Govt. should be shrewd in their dealings with Crook. He can be persuaded in some other areas me thinks?
As I understand the number of division the House of Representatives MUST be twice the number of Senators. A quota being a ratio of the number of people on the role by the total number of divisions allowed. ( Twice the number of Senators) is determined. The minimum number of Divisions per state must be 5. A state is then allocated a number of House of Representatives seats based on the quota determined. If a State has more then 50% of a quota remaining they are entitled to an additional seat. No division can cross State borders. (Its a messy formula and obviously allows for distoritions in the equality of the vote.
Members of the House of Representatives are entitled to sit for three years after the date in which the house first sits follwing its election. (This is a good reason for a house to delay its sitting for as long as possible as it could extend the time of the executive government)
The qualification to be a senator is the same as that for the House of Representatives. A quorum for their house is one third of its membership.
The president of the Senate has a deliberative vote and if the vote is tied then the matter is resolved in the negative. Resolutions of the House of Representatives are determined by a majority of the house excluding the Speaker who can vote only in the case that the votes on the floor are equal. Unlike the President the Speakers vote does not have to be in the negative.
There is also still out-standing the issue of a member of the Parliament entitlement to stand for office if that person was in receipt of remuneration directly or indirectly paid for by the Crown. Any person can sue a member of parliament who is not entitled to remain a member of Parliament for each day they remain in office. A determination of a members qualification in respect to payments from the Crown is determined by the house in which they sit.
Those members who were in receipt of a Councillors allowance at the time they nominated may still have their nomination declared invalid.
ltep@912
What a brave and powerful act, rooting out as it does all that is wrong in the party. It clearly signifies a genuine and fundamental rebuilding, from the foundations up, of what the party stands for; its structures; philosophy; and direction.
Boerwar
I sense that Brown is sounding out the Coalition. Not sure what strategy he is playing at.
How long until we see a Government in Crisis headline?
Possibly, but early signs were that the Libs were really behind the game in their campaign there. Posters of Rishworth lined the streets and the Libs’ candidate was only selected on 22 June and didn’t have a campaign office as of late July, as this preview of the seat explains:
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/labor-incumbent-looks-safe-in-seesaw-seat-20100725-10qlg.html
Whether they did some catching up by election day I don’t know.
I just love the fact the city newspaper are now BAWWWWING about not getting their share since stuff is being directed to regional areas. FFS the status quo up until now if you getting your share at the expense of them!
Aguirre
Is that agreement a public document?
I couldnt find anything on the Nationals’ site. (I cant get onto the Liberal Party site – maybe blocked or its getting reconstructed as “Her Majesty’s loyal legitimate government but not actually in office” site)
If David Feeney gets a bigger profile I will finally get to see he has a ‘face’ after all.
I thought the constitution allowed for the quorum number to be altered, and that it indeed has been.
Sky announce that Wyatt Roy is tipped as a future leader of the Liberal party.
It’s also the correct position to take. If you believe one thing is bad, getting given something else doesn’t make the original thing good. Each vote should be looked at on its own merits.
Democracy at work
Really?
Would not compliance with s44 of the Constitution be up to the High Court, not a determination of a House?
confessions
did they say when? Next year? or in twenty years time. Sheesh!
And to think the IPCC cop flak for their projections.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen David Feeney.
I believe that, in the next few days, Tony Abbott should call a press conference and directly address his supporters – especially the more rabid among them. He should call for calm and endorse the legitimacy of the Gillard Government and its right to govern.
It would be the honourable thing to do.
markjs – definitely. Is there any explanation for the increase in Tony Zappia’s vote in Makin. Is thre NBN being rolled out anywhere there or is it just that he is an excellent member for his electorate.
Scringler
Abbott and Honourable in the same sentence?
victoria: “in a couple of decades’ time” was the clarification.
I think it’s the Sky groupies getting a little over-excited at seeing so many Lib MPs at once.
The great thing about the present situation is that the govt (and indies) have a MASSIVE incentive to do things and pump out legislation. Otherwise they will get called lame duck, feeble, etc etc. If they let that image take hold, they will be dead in the water.
So what Julia should do is put her head down, bum up and just keep trotting out new initiatives. Rather than get into a slanging match with Tony, she should march stuff across her desk and through the parliament.
Not saying she should go quiet. But maybe she can allocate a few bruisers like Emerson to take on Tony. Emmo is just the right man to bring off the subs bench as an impact player.
Therefore it will never happen
Confessions
His image is on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Feeney
It has. The Senate (Quorum) Act 1991 altered the quorum for the Senate to a quarter of the whole number of senators. The House of Representatives (Quorum) Act 1989 changed it to one fifth of the House of Representatives.
confessions
Yes, this is the biggest opposition ever, I daresay.
10 months time I would guess.
It may have I was just paraphrasing the provisions of the constitution which is a very outdated and poorly worded document.The Parliament may have otherwise made provision in relation to a quorum.
I reckon the best role for Turnbull would be Defence.
Australia needs an intelligent Defence debate right now and some serious strategic thinking.
Turnbull is the person to lead that.
OZPOL – Thank you. That is very interesting. It would be interesting to know what proportion of people go down and read the comments. I would have thought it was pretty high.
ITep thanks. Looks like they have reduced the quorum.
Excellent point. Big party rooms are hard to manage.
blue-green
apparently Turnbull was asked if he would accept a role from the govt. He answered with an emphatic no. He wants the top job.
Christopher Pyne was all over the place when Tony Jones was mentioning climate change and Malcolm Turnbull last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhNA-da4Avw&feature=player_embedded
A sign of things to come.
blue-green: Ha! Very droll.
I thought Simon Crean was good this morning. He didn’t allow Fran Kelly to override his comments and he said they will just get on with governing and producing good policy. I think Julia G is lucky to have Crean’s experience close at hand. I don’t think Kev took advantage of it.
Re the crap in The Australian about the NBN (posted on Bolt’s blog):
From article in The Australian:
If Mr Somerville had taken just a few moments to actually inform himself by reading the NBN Implementation Study he would have learnt:
According to The Australian:
This is simply not true. According to the implementation study the Government expected the NBN “to be rolled-out, simultaneously, in metropolitan, regional and rural areas”. The $43 billion cost estimate included roll-out scenarios which applied “a uniform roll-out, where fiber is deployed uniformly to higher and lower density areas, and areas with different competitive environments (HFC, multiple DSLAMS, one or no DSLAMS).” The study recommended the adaptation of the uniform roll-out plan to reduce build costs.
Andrew Robb and The Australian are, at best, mistaken, at worst deliberately deceitful.
Victoria,
Unless he accepts a role in the shadow cabinet he will not be a sufficiently good team player to be be considered for the leadership.
Defence is the ideal place for him to demonstrate his calibre,
Who is saying that “the Liberals and Nationals have a formal coalition agreement”?
I have not heard that that has been negotiated yet alone agreed as yet.
Even if it does go ahead smoothly this time, which is questionable, it is
not clear whether Crook will sign up.
If we did have a National, one big electorate, first past the post system, and
if everyone voted for the same party that they gave their first preference to
in August, then the AEC says very clearly which party gets the most votes
and wins.
Australian Labor Party 4,702,681 votes
Liberal 3,768,355 votes
If the Liberals want to argue that something along those lines gives
legitimacy then they have to get their act together and not be
split into regional competitors for the national first preference vote.
From Samantha Maiden on Twitter
Are they going to start calling each other comrade?
Dr Bogan @ 338
Margo is here:
http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=
Margo is a very decent person. Happy reading.
The new members will proably all be going to ‘Liberal School’ to learn how to get the message out to the media – bad, illegitimate Gillard Government.
Hockey was ridiculous at a doorstop this morning. I didn’t catch it all but he raved on about ‘stop light coalition’ already in trouble. Somebody needs to take panadol or somesuch. It sounded so stupid.
I noticed it was only the 2GB person who was asking dorothy dixers tho with both Hockey and Scott Morrison. The others were trying to ask about Robb’s push for Deputy Leader which neither of them liked.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/pointless-to-back-abbott-in-opposition-crook-20100908-150no.html
It’s pretty clear, at least for now.
BLUE-GREEN – He’s about as elusive as Kaiser Soze.
I’m yet to see any usefulness for the quorum requirement other than for when votes are taken. Opposition members frequently draw the Speaker or President’s attention to the state of the house, apparently just to frustrate and delay the government during a debate while it rounds up some members, when it really doesn’t matter how many are present to listen to a boring, partisan speech.
TPP results coming in thick and fast and strongly for ALP
in Denison so the National TPP tally going further ahead
for ALP now.
50.01 to 49.99 and set to rise
rumours are tha malcolm will get telecommunications
BH: The Unhinging is manifesting in all manner of different ways.
The SMH has set up an online poll on betting in sport. The complete failure of logic between the question and the choices given neatly sums up the general value of online polls. Hopeless:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/nrl-failed-to-act-on-betting-warning-20100908-151fi.html
blue-green
I daresay Malcolm would accept a shadow portfolio. I think he may have been answering this question in general terms.
victoria, madcyril
I know, I know. This all reminds of of the time when John Howard had the opportunity to halt Hansonism. Instead, he provided succour.
Tony Abbott now has an opportunity to prove that he is, indeed, an honourable Member of the Australian Parliament.
Scringler
Abbott should start by telling his own members to stop the meme about illegitmacy, but he won’t. Obviously because he is directing them to say it whenever possible. He has no moral fibre whatsoever.
Section 47 of the Constitution provides that until the Parliament otherwise provides, questions relating to the qualification of a member of the House or Senate shall be determined by the relevant House.
The Parliament has provided otherwise in the Commonwealth Electoral Act (ss 376-381) but it is worded as either House may refer the matter to the Court of Disputed Returns (rather than must). This means either House may still decide the matter itself if they choose.
I did.
I don’t know much about their formal agreement, but I thought they had one, even if it is re-negotiated periodically.
I think it is very clear now that Tony Crook will not sign up for it.
triton
Crook will not sign up for it. Therefore, Labor have more seats now. What are the coalition going to say now?
I wonder why the aBC doesn’t report this – all I heard this morning was the conflict between the Indies and the Govt. on the mining tax and that the crack are already appearing but Maiden has made these comments re Robb trying for Dep Leader.
It’s important for questions of parliamentary privilege. It also provides a buffer to allow a member who is meant to be in the chamber to rush to the chamber. It’s used as more of a disturbance in the House of Representatives than the Senate, although this should now decrease because members will be able to fillibuster through debate rather than other devices. May this be the death of the undemocratic gag.
Scringler, yes I agree with your sentiments.
I was under the impression the coalition agreement prevented members from one party from standing against a sitting member of another party. If so, it would appear clear that Crook doesn’t feel he is party to the coalition agreement as he ran against Wilson Tuckey.
What was the peak amount that the coalition were ever ahead on 2pp? Somewhere around 5-6000?
so they are going to give him a s**t sandwich, trying to argue against the very popular NBN, so that’s how you treat talent in the Libs, noice!
rupert is having some real trouble with his minions illegally tapping phones in the UK – and his rivals putting in serious money to nail him
http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/538/news-corp-is-freaking-out.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
[Willunga stats…
Population statistics (2006 Census)…
Approximate Willunga District: 3060
Location… 46 kilometres (28.5 miles) or 43 minutes south of Adelaide, South Australia.
Main industry… viticulture, tourism, horticulture & agriculture and associated industry. http://www.willungafestivals.com/
Gawd, markjs.
Another rural bushie stealing funding that rightfully belongs to Melbourne & Sydney (Sydney’s western suburbs, according to one of today’s online paper rants) snatching bread from babies’ mouths. Bloody selfish Regional git! Think you’re entitled to an unfair share, just because you grow all those export crops! Pi^sing off all us journalists fighting for the cities’ rights! 
Lucky you. Onya, mate!
Crook will want to be able to vote on bills according to his own views (in his case his electoral interests). Otherwise he will spend the next three years putting up his hand when told, proposing nothing himself, in complete impotence, while he watches Windsor and Oakshott in the limelight individually putting up bills helping the bush and the national interest, one after the other. It would be suicidal for him to enter into the usual coalition.
I think it was around 10,000 at one stage.
Crook could pull a Harradine and sell his vote on particular pieces of legislation for cash for his electorate. Distasteful, but it’s certainly an option.
ltep: I was under the impression that in WA the Libs and nats are not in a coalition like they are elsewhere.
I’m not surprised about Crook.
Besides the mining tax, he has no reason to support the Coalition in Opposition.
Another sign that the National Party is becoming obsolete.
Thanks Triton
Can you please point to your evidence?
All I have heard about “the Coalition” agreement lately is a radio
comment from respected WA University politics commentator
Harry Philips saying (a few weeks ago) that the agreement that covered the
Coalition under the last Rudd-Gillard parliament, has lapsed.
victoria, I think Brown is just making sure the focus remains on the Greens. As well, he has probably realised that – at least for the time being – it is counterproductive for him to continue to strip votes away from Labor.
For some time now Brown has been saying how well he gets on with Tony Abbott and the Liberals, while also signaling that he intends to chase National votes. His strategy at the moment seems to be to consolidate his hold on a left-Labor base while reaching out to conservative voters.
After all, among the LNP-voting population, there must be a significant number that have concerns about environmental issues – especially climate change – but who for tribal reasons will never vote Labor. So, if politics is about market share, we can trace out Brown’s strategy. First, he managed to get himself elected to the Senate on an anti-dams, anti-forestry, pro-wilderness franchise. Second, he consolidated that base and gradually consumed the “third-voice” position formerly occupied by the Democrats. Third, he has sliced share away from Labor by appealing to the disaffected leftish vote.
Now he is consolidating his position with Labor and unfolding a new gambit – to try to take share away from the LNP. It will be very interesting to see how he goes about doing this. There are probably two categories of LNP supporters he will target at first.
Farmers are an obvious category. First, a good many of them see themselves as custodians of the land and know that environmental issues are at the heart of their long-term viability. If Brown pitches a pro-farmer green agenda that will be funded by (urban-based) big business, he will find an audience and, you would think, by allying Green support with independent voices, will begin to make progress.
Second, there is probably scope to target young voters by appealing to them around social issues and on climate change policy, which, when all is said and done, is the sine qua non issue for the young.
Considering the Liberal base is among voters aged 50 or more and that they have almost no policies that will appeal to the young, the Greens have a lot to gain over a period of time by articulating positions that will appeal to voters who are gojng through the process of forming their political attachments.
I think it is not at all clear that Brown will succeed with this next phase. But he probably has concluded he has to try.
ltep@985
Except I think that behaviour would attract some provisions of the Commonwealth Crimes Act.
Abbott’s mental health policy is the most likely first joint venture for the libs, indies and Greens as they all support it. Labor can’t have it both ways; a majority of the house decides what happens including forming government and passing bills. If they don’t like it they can ask for a new election.
One or two people on The Drum this week argued quite convincingly that this would be a very good portfolio for MT because he’s comfortable arguing on both technical and financial aspects of telecommunications. Financially there’s certainly an opportunity for the NBN to be attacked in the hands of someone of his capability.
Hi William. I haven’t read all the posts in this thread so apologies if someone has already asked this question, or if I’m missing something obvious, but you seem to be agreeing with the Liberals line that they have won more seats in the lower house.
I see this as a really important point, for the optics of it, and surely the result was 72 -72. Crook took the seat off a liberal and his party, when he ran, was not affiliated with the federal coalition and did not have any agreement with the liberal-national coalition. He is also still maintaining he will sit on the cross benches.
Surely this puts him in the same situation as the Greens and Wilkie at least.
Labor needs to win the argument that the lower house vote in terms of seats was a draw, and then they have negotiated to form government. Abbott can’t be allowed to go unchallenged that his side won more seats in the lower house. They didn’t. It was a draw.
He’d be protected by parliamentary privilege. In essence it’s the same as members of the Shooters Party selling their vote on non-related legislation in exchange for loosened regulations on hunting\fishing. Distasteful, but not illegal.
Specialising in emails?
I don’t have any evidence. FWIW, Wikipedia thinks there’s an agreement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_(Australia)
ltep
Thanks for that. Though s 353 provides that the CofDR has sole jurisdiction on election:
Diogenes@991
I’m not sure there is common ground on the funding source for the Libs mental health policy; as it stands, other areas of the health budget. But I’m sure it can be the subject of improvement by agreement between all parties and the indies with the funds coming from somewhere else – middle class welfare perhaps?
I also heard that and heard Abbott say that a new agreement has to be negotiated with the Nats. It happens after every election I think. I bet the Nats will be asking for more jobs this time.
I am not at all anti-Penbo.
He generally delivers some very sensible editorials that reflect the values of the mortgage belt.
He is not extremist or unthinking at all.
It is perfectly reasonable to question whether the greatest needs are in regional areas. (I do like his quote about the poor landholders of Tamworth riding around on their $10,000 ride-on lawnmowers).
But it would have been better to balance these views against the parliamentary reality.
Abbott has to give Turnbull the communications portfolio.
If he keeps him on the backbench, it will cause a nightmare in the media and cause tensions with the moderates.
If he gives him the Shadow Treasurer portfolio, not only won’t he be able to get anything done (different views on certain issues such as climate change and the PPL), the media will continually be speculating of when he’ll make his move.
You have to give Turnbull credit for creating this anxiety inducing dilemma for Mr Abbott.
This is my understanding too. I remember someone here yesterday (ruawake?) said the Nats had asked for more shadow ministers, and it was expected the LNP would also ask for greater representation, given their increased numbers in the parliament now.
Actually the Penbo article on the Punch did talk about the Parliamentary reality. it was not at dig at JG and ALP.
Wikipedia thinks there is an agreement – love it!
The problem JV is that the introduction any bill that involves expenditure like Tone’s back of envelope mental health policy requires a request from the Governor General for the allocation of funds. The GG is advised in such matters by the executive council which, with 1 possible exception, is composed of Labor members. The independent speaker will rule such a bill out of order. It is deeply concerning that Bob Brown is not aware of this or maybe he is just stirring the possum.
Triton
Wikipedia, on “the” Coalition, also says
1) the Coalition has 73 seats in parliament (see graph at side)
2) “Crook and the WA Nationals remain independent and not in a coalition”
So I would not take Wikipedia as the best reference here.
Jv
Evidently you can pass a bill that requires funding without specifying where the funding will come from.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-deliverance-of-cash-to-those-who-squeal-loudest/
victoria @ 971
I’m afraid you’re right. (BTW: I’m in Victoria and still have awful flashbacks to the vile Kennett years. Oh, the horror!)
This was the basic proposition he took to the election. He also said his major demand will be a “royalties for regions” program. This makes sense in a State context, because the State actually levies the royalties and has the cash. In a federal context, it is just hypocritical: Crook opposes the MRRT but has the nerve to ask for $900 million a year in “royalties”.
Of course, the finer points do not matter. The political impulse is simple: a lot of voters in WA reckon the Commonwealth has been short-changing them on GST revenue and that WA interests do not rank very high up the list in Canberra, regardless of who is in power.
There are many dangers in this for the Liberals. They are the dominant representative group from WA in the Commonwealth Parliament. If the Liberals give ground to Crook, they will spawn a dozen new would-be National Party-clad Independents. The recent State election showed that voters are easily seduced by the sectional appeals of the Nationals, who gained seats the Liberals had expected to win.
So Crook will get not much of anything from Abbott. And yet, because his political DNA is hostile to Labor, he will get not much of anything from Gillard either.
The largest single party in parliament (HOR) is the ALP with 72 members.
Other parties include:
Liberal 44 seats
LNP of Qld 21
Nationals 7 (although they probably won’t all sit together)
Greens 1
CLP 1
plus 4 independents.
Quick search of liberal.org.au….no sign of a “coalition agreement”
Is this a secret document only for the faceless people of the so-called “coalition”
The strategy is to pass “feel good” bills from Opposition and cry outrage when the Government (rightly because of budget reasons, but that’ll be ignored) “refuses” to implement them.
sprocket
Not being picky or pedantic but the better description of these thugs is myrmidon;
Ruperts myrmidons or MSM myrmidons.
Minion;
Myrmidon
This may be good for the opposition and indies but is it good for the budget and Australia? I guess as long as all sides are sensible about it it could work. A big IF though.
blue-green: If Penbo is on the rampage about the country being held to ransom, that he supports the mining tax, and opposed the tactics used by the mining industry to subvert the government governing in the national interest?
I do not expect that the Libs will try to pass many private members bills unless they are political wedges to to split away the Indies.
I expect marine parks and wild rivers legislation will come up.
I look forward to the Free Puppies and Kittens Act of 2011.
That section of the Constitution is likely not jusiticiable because it contains the phrase “proposed laws”. The House could reject the Speaker’s ruling and proceed with the bill.
The GG may also consider themselves advised by the Parliament on purely legislative matters rather than the Executive council. This is all an unclear area of constitutional law (including whether the GG can decline to assent to laws once passed by the parliament).
Dio
Yes, mental health.
Governments, when managing budgets, are involved in an endless series of internal budgetary trade-offs. Abbott was not suggesting new money for mental health, as I understand it. He was going to take money away from physical health elements of the budget. During the election campaign no-one took too much notice of this. But $1.5 billion out of the physical health system is serious money. A lot of people are going to get hurt.
While everyone likes to dip into the trough, nobody likes to tip the ready into the trough. It means raising taxes or robbing Peter to pay Paul. Hitherto, the trade-offs were done as part of executive government policy and program decision-making processes. There was accountability for pain as well as for the gain.
But now, if Abbott puts forward a Bill (supported by the Greens and Independents) tied to $1.5 billion in spending and everyone but Labor supports it, where does the money come from, and who takes accountability for raising taxes or robbing Peter to pay Paul?
Brown’s public invitation to Abbott did not go to this issue, naturally. IMHO, Brown is going to go through a process of learning about accountability and the electoral pain that goes with it. No more magic pudding.
The Indies and the Greeens have all indicated they will not block Supply. Supply is shorthand for an appropriation for a given amount of money. Will the Indies and the Greens go for a larger appropriation to cover their wish list? Or will they leave it to Labor to sort out where the cuts are going to be so that the Indies and the Greens can get their wish list. This leaves everyone snouting the trough, except Labor, who will be given the unenviable task of finding the ready to fill the trough. I can’t see Labor taking the crap for everyone else. Labor would, at the very least, tie the accountability pain to folk getting their wish lists.
I suggest that while the firm of MSM, Abbott&Truss are focussing on what the voters did as well as constitutionally irrelevant notions like ‘mandate’ and ‘illegitimacy’, they should really be focussing on how the funds are going to be raised and spent. That is where the real instability will lie over the next three years. That is where Gillard will need all her manifest negotiation skills.
OzPol Tragic@982
Yes……….it’s a great place to live Oz……..safe ALP seat, NBN, beautiful countryside and wonderful wines (off to stock up my cellar later today….:) ), metropolitan train extension underway…….great schools (including a brand new library for the primary school…….thanks Julia!!)……..and lovely neighbours (not too close)……
And I backed ALP last week when they were $3.10………it don’t get much better than that
the role of the executive council (along with the constitution, standing orders and conventions) is something which the MSM and members of parliament should be doing boot camp in. what used to rubber stamps are now highly relevant procedures with who controls the agenda critical.
Tone very triumphant in addressing his party room.
Dio
Section 56 of the Constitution:
A vote, resolution, or proposed law for the appropriation of revenue or
moneys shall not be passed unless the purpose of the appropriation has in the
same session been recommended by message of the Governor-General to the House
in which the proposal originated.
Just out of interest, does anyone know if there is an overall media strategist for the govt? I assume there are a significant number of media advisers, but is there someone coordinating strategy? And if so, who is it?
Dio
an Abbott mental health bill would not “pass” (into law) unless
the ALP supported it.
First, it would have to pass the lower house and the Greens will not support
it (they have announced that they won’t support non-government bills
which have budgetary implications).
Then it would have to pass the senate, without the Greens and ALP.
Unlikely.
Then it would have to be taken to the GG by the government
for signing into law. Doesn’t have to happen.
And this is all good, as mental health needs a proper set of policies
that fits in with the rest of health care, instead of scavenging
resources from those areas.
I hope Tone has many more losses to gloat over.
Long time lurker here.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts on this site over the past few weeks and even accidentally learned things that I never thought I needed to know! It spurred me on to help campaigning in Makin and the increase swing Tony Zappia received was very satisfying.
For those that wanted to know, Pyne went to St Iggies in SA. He was in the same class as various family members and friends of mine. Through his influence, they are now mostly fervent ALP supporters.
Did anybody hear that old painted python Bronnie Bishop sprouting the “illegitimacy of the government” line this morning?
She, of all people, should know about the constitution of this country.
i doubt it, unless we want to exhume John Kerr. convention is that the the advice of the PM is followed, and any instruments for ascent come from the executive council.
Since 1949 the Liberal Party has only won 2 federal elections on their own (75 and 77) and they got 75 seats in 96 and 04.
Without the National/Country party, they’d be in deep trouble.
The Inconvenient Truth on Carbon reductions is that China’s politcal system allows for massive reductions.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/beijings-iron-fist-on-emissions-has-industry-gasping-20100908-151ew.html?skin=text-only
The terrrible Chinese politcal system is able to reduce emissions through punitive measures.
So the upshot of all this is that Bob Brown’s “governing from opposition” invitation to Abbott is just populist nonsense designed to hog the media spotlight?
JV
Section 56 and the 3 sections before it which say money appropriated by bills can only be used for that bill – look pretty solid to me. I guess the coalition could try to overturn the speaker’s ruling and it could then go to the high court but I think it would all look fairly rabid to the public.
Whitlam lost a lot of good-will and opportunity for renewal of the ALP by acting as a “government in exile” during 1975-77
As to funding bills not proposed by the government, I was thinking of agreement being reached before the vote on where the money is coming from. I would have thought that element is the key to agreement, and in the interests of the government to reach agreement on.
I don’t believe the executive council has the effective power of veto over any proposed bill on advice to the GG. Every proposal costs money, and it would mean a minority government could block any bills not proposed by it. Cannot be.
Labor have skipped out to a 6000 vote lead in the 2PP, after Dennison had some further 2PP counts added, and some of the big Labor seats had some more votes counted.
Did anyone hear Neil Mitchell this morning suggesting that the floods may not really be that bad. That Brumby was just hyping them up for his own political purposes. He asked people in country areas to ring in to see if this theory was correct.
Channel 7 News thought they were so bad that they conducted their news service atone of the flood ravaged towns. The floods have headed news services on TV and on radio including Mitchell’s own station. Is this bloke for real?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-mps-meet-threatening-world-of-hurt-for-gillard-government/story-fn59niix-1225916281105
Hey JV
Why would the government agree to its budget being disrupted by the opposition’s policies?
I have a good idea – ring Alan Jones and start a meme that the GG has to be replaced because she is obviously impartial because she takes advice from a government that includes hes son in law. There really is only one person who can replace her and represent the nation and that is Alan himself
a tony love in on sky “band of brothers and sisters ” vomit gag vomit
How would Labor look if when bills not proposed by them are passed by both houses, but they purport to block them by advising the GG not to approve the allocation of funds?
Dangerous.
I wasn’t taking it as the best reference, only as a “FWIW” reference. One picks up things here and there over time. I believed, as someone else said, that the coalition agreement is re-negotiated after every election (makes sense, since the Nationals’ clout depends on their representation), but I didn’t have any “evidence” for it. Anyway, if this dispute is only in relation to claims of vote totals then it’s only a technical argument. We know they are in coalition and we know they’ll formalize it somehow, so it’s fair enough to combine their votes and seats.
I welcome a rational and balanced scrutiny of the Greens Party policy on taxation. It includes measures that would result in a fairer and more equitable income distribution within our society.
http://greens.org.au/policies/sustainable-economy/economics
The MSM and Coalition scare-mongering is to be expected, as is its blatant omission of the taxation thresholds listed above. If the details were widely known the Greens vote would increase imo as many people who survive on low incomes would understand that it would be in their financial interests to see such measures implemented.
Good idea. When people ask what other programs are to be slashed to pay for an opposition policy the government can list them and say “we all agreed on it”, including the opposition.
mickt, the General Surgeon warns that viewing Sky News can be detrimental to your well being.
Why would the government agree to its budget being disrupted by the opposition’s policies?
Because it doesn’t have the numbers. Therefore ‘its budget’ is not its budget. ‘Its budget’ is subject to the majority decisions on the floor of the House.
Ring Alan Jones? Me?
If you are read the constitution, the executive council certainly has the power to advice the GG not to assent. This however would not be necessary as after assent a bill has to be proclaimed and the executive council decides the date of proclamation. The executive council also controls, unless they are in the bill, the regulations under which an act functions.
JV, If you represent the liberals’ mind-set then I can see this parliament being similar to the 74-75 one. Fortunately after June 30, the Senate will not play along and the Liberals will lose this one.
I can only refer you to section 56. A bill requiring the allocation of funds without the request of the GG – can not be lawfully debated in parliament. This is the first step. It is not a matter of the bill being passed and the government then finding the money.
george,Im leaving for intensive care right now
That’s definitely not a settled area of constitutional law. See this paper by Anne Twomey:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1007341##
Essentially, the argument is that the GG, as the representative of the Queen (who forms part of the legislature) is acting in a legislative manner rather than an executive manner when involved in the legislative process. This means that the GG should not act on the advice of the Executive on these occasions, but that of the Parliament.
Contains this extract on withholding of assent (amongst many other passages) and you could potentially extend this to the appropriations issue too.
Gary@1042
If this minority government wishes to survive, there will be many discussions about money between Labor, the Green and the indies. Similarly, there will be – fewer – discussions between the Green,, the indies, and the coalition. Such discussion about money will be the lingua franca of this parliament.
They can provide the advice, but many constitutional scholars would argue the GG would be obliged to reject the advice.
An incredibly balanced an well thought out editorial on the Libs campaign and their next steps.
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/09/09/33155_editorial.html
Oakeshott Country@1045
Hold her, hold her. In this parliament I represent the indies and Bandt mindset, thank you. This hung parliament is a fantastic outcome as far as I’m concerned. A minority Labor government is exactly what I wanted. (and not because of the serial bets I had on Labor.)
Actually it is their budget. The government has been founded on the written assurances by the Green and three independents that they will support supply.
I have thought for some time that Bob Brown has been loosing his mental acuity. Apparently at yesterday’s presser, Milne was giving him sotto voce prompts ( a la Nancy Reagan), this suggestion of government in exile, if it has been reported accurately, gives me more evidence for my theory.
Sorry JV – it was ltep who was raising the spectre of John Kerr.
A green / conservative program passed legislatively would be a gift for labor – if they can sell a message this term – early signs really bad for govt message wise
Well, let’s face it… the media and the Coalition are clearly going to do everything in their power to trash and destroy this government, the sooner the better.
There’s be no “kinder gentler” politics, no spirit of co-operation. It’ll be mean, nasty and (to use Oakeshott’s word) “ugly” from the get-go.
Their proposition is absurd: that somehow a Labor minority government with a 2 vote majrity is illegitimate, even (some say) illegal, but a Coalition minority government on exactly the same numbers – but reversed – would be a shining light on the hill, beckoning the nation to a prosperous, democratic future, steeped in abundance and decency. But that’s what they’re saying and they’re ramping it up, not toning it down.
Not one article I’ve seen by any of the major commentators has been positive. They have all been about how “the first cracks appear” or “split in Sunshine Coalition”. No-one in the 4th estate wants this to work. Thus they betray their arch conservatism, their seeming inability to countenance anything new or novel, even if just to see how it might work and benefit the country. The verdict is already in: the Labor minority government is a failure… they’ll see to that.
Ignored will be the obvious proposition that pork and benefits for rural electorates were just as much on the Coalition’s agenda as presented to the Indies as they are on Labor’s. Why is it I get the feeling that if the Coalition had been given the gig everything that happened would be a glorious win for regional Australia, and the Indies true heros and statesmen? Instead we get potholes in Penrith traded off against hospitals in Hobart, 90 minute driving times in Sydney neglected in favour of 100 megabits to Tamworth.
Suddenly it’s all City v. Country in the worst possible way: those bludgers in rural areas are benefiting in place of the huddled masses of Western Sydney. Let’s lynch a few farmers! Country Australia is another nation, and we’re at war. Our city-based sectional interests are much more important than their Country-based sectional interests. Any fool can see that.
Who needs cows anyway? And if we must have cows, what are dairy farmers doing on the internet when they should be in the milk shed? (see the OO‘s front page if you don’t get what I’m talking about ). The spite, the vitriol and the nastiness are so thick you could cut them with a blunt knife.
Where the National Party fits into all this is anybody’s guess, but one thing’s for sure: we’re not reading any articles about how they’ve been rendered obsolete overnight by the Indies getting more for the regions than the Nats ever did. No journalist or other commentator seems to have noticed that the Indies and Labor have formed a de-facto coalition that will do for regional Australia what’s been neglected to be done for 20 years, as the Nats sold their souls to fat miners and monocultural agribusiness interests. The Nats’ neglect of their constituency, and the miserable way they treated Oakeshott and Windsor have come back to bite them in the bum, with a terrible, beautiful vengeance.
But justice and delicious irony don’t matter a hill of genetically modified canola beans. The conservatives will not accept this government in any way, shape or form. They will snipe and seek to obfuscate, to filibuster and bludgeon it out of office. The Indies are relying on “good faith” in governance. They will get none of this from the Coalition or the right-wing media.
Labor, trying to be positive, is making the same mistake they made under Rudd. But doing the decent thing doesn’t impress the Coalition. They see decency as a weakness. We thought they were vicious and dishonest before the election. I don’t we’ve seen anything yet.
Part 1: Honesty with figures
ltep, Crook BEAT the Coalition candidate; so how could any honest person claim it as a Coalition win – as Tony did?
Crook repeated over & over, he was sitting on the cross-benches (as an independent). Like Wilkie – whom the Coalition ISN’T counting as an ALP win – he promised only two things if the Coalition won office: to back it on Supply and Tony on a no-confidence vote. (I do expect him to vote with it against the mining tax)
Katter (maybe, perhaps) promised the same.
AS the ABC still shows it:
Coalition, won 42 + Crook + Katter
ALP, won 42 + Green + Wilkie + Oakshott + Windsor.
So the reality (in Soccer terms) is: 42/42 draw; shootout: Coalition 2, ALP 4.
If the shootout outcome been reversed, would the Coalition be screaming, “We are an illegitimate government!”? Not until pigs started flying, it wouldn’t!
The Truth? The Opposition kicked too many own goals
1. Labor’s NBN (& e-services) and Abbott’s cheap “wireless” alternative proved to be the pivotal decision, with rival policies on health & education also key issues.
2. Costings the Coalition took to the election were shonky – up to $11 billion’s worth of shonky; the ALP’s stood up to scrutiny
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/cajoling-strategising-paid-dividends-for-alp-20100907-14zla.html
3. The Hobart Hospital bribe: coming after the costings debacle, an unfunded $1 billion offered without “due process”, showed how desperate the Coalition was.
4. NewsLtd’s “new election” campaign – which either reflected or informed the Coalition’s attitude (until Aug 27-9 Newspoll results were in, though not reported for long enough to let the campaign die)- backfired spectacularly.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s3005830.htm
5. “Labor lost the war but won the peace”. Ben Altham states what several columnists have notes. The ALP remained disciplined: As early as election night, the Coalition abused, maligned & harassed the Indies, especially Windsor & Oakshott, who were also bombarded with phonecalls & email.
In summary
(a) two pre-election issues – NBN/e-services and costing for policy implementation – proved “deal makers/ breakers”
(b) Coalition abuse and indiscipline, even if it did not affect the Indies’ decisions, was a replication of what delegitimised the electoral viability of Vic’s Coalition after Election99. Too obviously, federal colleagues learnt nothing from that … BUT
(c) The real deal-breaker was NewsLtd’s “Call for a new election” (because Abbott will win it) campaign. Vibrations of that in Windor’s negotiations with Coalition members, ensured he backed Gillard.
Dr Good
I looked up Browns comments and he said he was very mindful of Labor having to manage the budget so you are probably right that he won’t support ppl etc. However there are enough indies to pass the bills easily and I don’t know if they have the same agreement the Greens have.
If Neil Mitchell wants to come down to my place I could tie him to the $400 worth of fencing I will have to replace because it was ripped out of the ground by the floods. It would be inconvenient to get him to the destroyed bits of the fence because some of it is tangled around tree branches now well above water level and some of it is on the river bed. But I give this guarantee to Neil Mitchell: I will give it my best shot to tie him to some of my destroyed fencing.
Then, if he wants to, he could tell me that the floods were all a political trick.
Breaking News
I wonder how Abbott would have handled this news if he was now PM elect – probably said it’s a sign of what a good opposition he lead and how things will now get even better.
Yes, but after 1 July 2011 it’d need the Greens support to pass the Senate.
Oakeshott Country@1053
The logical basis of your main point is that the executive has greater power over the allocations within the overall budget than does parliament itself. That is a courageous assertion.
The agreement on supply doesn’t mean agreement to accept whatever the minority government proposes itself as to how the monies are spent. That would obviously be ludicrous – it would mean that a minority government functions as a majority one does.
How the monies within the budget are allocated is clearly a matter for the parliament.
The power over the purse is one of the greatest powers any legislature holds over the executive. If you speak to people in other parliaments around the world they’d be shocked at how weak ours is.
I agree. Still a deafening silence from the govt on the “illegitimate” line. The last term showed that when you let these Lib concepts get oxygen, with no dampener from the govt, then they become a cemented mind-set. They seem to be doddling down the same path as last term, which we have seen doesn’t work and only creates huge problems for them. It’s not enough for the Greens and the independents to be calling the Libs and the media on their crap – the govt need to seriously step up to the plate.
OK so my earlier post was based on ignorance that Brown had said that any of the Opposition’s Bills would not be money bills. I resile my related comments.
What is there to get? The Greens Party is a political party in its own right with a policy platform it wants to see implemented. Why wouldn’t it seek to negotiate with Abbott or anyone else in policy areas that have overlap.
The angst displayed by some here is just a denial of the fact that the Greens are not simply the left/progressive rump of ALP disaffected voters who will come back into the fold. Greens supporters consist of a wide range of individuals who support the Greens Party policies not the ALP per se.
Labor should not be waiting for Tony Abbott to rein in his MPs. For heaven’s sake has nothing been learned from the past few weeks?
The PM should make a statement – not a presser but a live statement – at which she without equivocation slaps down talk of illegitamacy.
The PM should also challenge Tony Abbott to explain why he took part in the process with the independents if he believed the government that resulted would be illegitimate.
She should say that she would have respected Mr Abbott if he had refused to take part from the outset and stated his belief that he would not have accepted legitimacy for a coalition government coming to power by that process.
The PM should point out that Mr Abbott [did] accept and take part in the process and only now, when the result has gone against him, is he standing to one side to allow the legitimacy of an Australian government to be challenged by people under his leadership.
She should also make the strongest possible references to threats towards the independents and make it clear that these are beng fanned by highly irresponsible and hypocrital comments from senior opposition figures.
This is a very important time and allowing vacuums to be filled by the vacuous is a big mistake.
I quite like the Government not worrying about the ‘legitimate’ line. Why should it worry? The Independents are not. The Greens are not. Let the Coalition froth, fume and vent. The timing of the next election will not depend on ranting about ‘illegitimate’ or ‘mandate’. It will depend on an entirely different set of factors. Whatever the timing of the next election, the agenda will not include maundering about legitimacy or mandate. The fact of the next election wipes these issues as issues.
Boerwar 1068
I agree and once some crackpot does something stupid, then blame Tony for fostering it.
Meanwhile, just bloody govern.
Unemployment down to 5.1% from 5.3% last month.
Hopefully a terrific, positive press release is being bombarded to all the news agencies and media outlets. Followed up by Swannie getting his mug on TV talking up the positives, talking about how well we’ve come through the GFC so far, and what a relief that we don’t have a Lib govt now who can’t use calculators appropriately.
This is the first I’ve heard of the Greens possibly taking the Climate Change portfolio as part of their deal with the Government.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007037.htm
Denison officially declared: http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-15508-194.htm
51.2-48.8 to Wilkie.
Brown is a shrill populist, known for talking out both sides of his mouth, and counter to his own party’s policies.
It’s entirely valid to hold the Greens to account for their public comments.
agree with this obesrevation about the role of parliament , but “weakness” is relative. eg the US Senate has many independently minded parochial senators – many bills get “tags” added to get through, which are basically local pork barrells – which get eventually resolved by commitees. is this where we are headed? is this a reflection of a stronger parliament?
Except that the “illegitimate” line becomes cemented in people’s brains and will be trotted out at every opportunity throughout the term whenever a difficult piece of legislation goes before the parliament. By then you won’t even need Lib MPs to be using the legitimacy line – it will be taken as fact and used frequently in media reports.
If only more Pbers would do this rather than go off half-cocked instead of checking sources for themselves
m @ 1071
This tends to confirm a view I proffered during the campaign that SHY could make herself the most hated woman in Australian politics.
how would keating deal with abbotts tear them down strategies ?
BB
I think the test for the Nationals will not be felt in metropolitan dominated media; I suspect it will be manifest in more grass-roots, local communication: particularly as some pork starts flowing
This is what BB said.
“The Greens will not be supporting bills which require a new tax without the agreement of the Government. It’s a pretty simple guideline,” he said.
Perhaps what Julia should do is see if this meme with the coalition continues into next week, and then when she announces her ministry she could make a comment. Not sure exactly what she should say, but make a statement.
Your bigotry is plain to see.
I agree. Now if only the MSM could see that without going into the “fragile” and “split” crap.
Such hyperbole.
OK, this is what Brown is reported to have said.
“The Greens will not be supporting bills which require a new tax without the agreement of the Government. It’s a pretty simple guideline,” he said.
In other words we get our snouts in the trough and Labor gets the odium of raising taxes or robbing Peter to pay Paul. Magic pudding politics. We gain, they get the pain if it goes ahead. Or, if they refuse to raise taxes or rob Peter to pay Paul on some piece of populist crap, they get the pain anyway. Cute.
I resile from my resiling.
Great article from Robert Reich on why basic inequality is destroying the US economy and there won’t be a real recovery until that is addressed.
Big lessons for us
http://robertreich.org/post/1060844316/the-real-lesson-of-labor-day
I note that he calls Australia a “chinese mine shaft.”
I see. So criticising the public conduct of political leaders now amounts to bigotry in the eyes of some.
Interesting.
2PP now up to an 8615 vote lead for Labor (ALP 50.04%)
Bob Katter was terrific on Q & A. So much passion for his electorate(which covers Charters Towers where I used to live, and the outer Northern suburbs of Townsville) and for Australia as a whole.
What we really need up here in Townsville is our own Bob Katter. I was disappointed when voting to see I only had 4 dud options when voting, a LNP member I’ve never heard of, LAB(Tony Mooney whom already got tossed out by the Townsvillian people at the Council elections.. get a hint mate), some leftwing Greenies and the christian nuts FF. Come on wheres the choice there?
We’ll happily swap the Isa for their member.
Here is what Bob Brown said
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007037.htm
I wonder when Tone will announce his front bench? I imagine he’ll be under pressure to move on from Howardia and refresh shadow ministers like Bronnie and Kevin Andrews with new people.
The government at this stage cannot reply with any surety regards to TPP etc. When the count finishes and Labor wins the TPP then they can just quote the exact figures everytime this BS comes up. Don’t want egg on one’s face do we.
Gos @ 1067
Yes, agree.
My suggestion that Tony Abbott step up publicly and stop this nonsense was an appeal to his sense of decency. A forlorn hope, obviously …
This is exactly what I mean by talking out both sides of his mouth. Which is it – new taxes, or impost on the public purse? The two aren’t necessarily the same.
The best form of legitimacy for this govt is to turn up to the office every day, work their arses off and talk about the big issues.
This will only cement in the brains of cement-heads.
Look what happened the last time labor got down into the gutter with the libs (boat people). Didn’t help at all.
Rosa
I think you have nailed it.
By telling them to all go and get f__ked.
Wow. Jobless rate drops to 5.1%
http://www.theage.com.au/business/jobless-rate-drops-to-51-20100909-1521k.html
Pegasus
If you want hyperbolic crap, follow SHY. It is the only thing she at which she excels.
Wong is several classes above SHY in every way. Wong’s response to SHY was let’s not get personal about it. SHY is a wet-behind-the-ears puppy who may learn some home truths about magic puddings over the next three years – no more high ground, unaccountable sniping for starters. Only a dope would reduce the complexities of what happened in relation to CC under the Rudd Government to a personal attack on Wong.
Let’s hopes SHY learns a bit about proper respect for people with high integrity and high intelligence while she is at it. Given her performance to date, I would not bet on it.
rang abc news and current affairs Sydney the reporter there agreed with me that what should of been pointed out was the constitution, wtte, suggest all journalists should have a copy, went further and said if you work in an area such as news should ‘nt you have a knowledge of the constitution, agreed and said he would look in to it.
may be the independents will dig their heels in more
my say
Good work.
confessions
Instead of all of this junk about ‘splits’ and ‘fragile government’ the MSM should be educating people how such a parliament should operate and how effective it can be if done properly. I think I’m whistling in the wind however.
What will happen when the Greens call in their favours and start demanding Labor pass this and that or lose their support?
Will the Independents accept these Greenies demands and roll over?
In my view it was a moment of absolute stupidity by the two independents to go Labor. The 3 independents could single handedly had a grip on power, finally being able to pass the legislation they wanted. Instead they basically now share this power with 2 Greens who are ideologically and morally their complete opposites and will be demanding this and that which the Independents won’t be able to swallow. The whole parliaments going to end up in a complete stalemate and we’ll probably be heading back to another election before the years out.
If these blokes reckon the Greenies will compromise on anything, they really are in lala land.
Then link it to Brandis’s and Bishops claim that the party who wins 2PP should govern.
Dio – so that puts an end to that theme BUT
very briefly this is an interpretation of S56 by a constitutional lawyer -. As he points out the basis of responsible government is control of the budget.
Section 56. Since by convention the Governor-General writes such messages (as he does most other things) on the advice of the Government, this section guarantees that legislation on expenditure must conform to Government policy. Sections 53 and 56 are the closest the Constitution comes to saying that our federal system of government follows the conventions of Responsible Government
Truthy
Do you like Katters committment to raising tarrifs and pegging the exchange rate?
well tone really only had 44 followers as they say on face book
Ideologically and morally there opposite? I think you should have a look at Oakeshott’s web page.
who let truthy back william …….
confessions, I think Bob Brown means they won’t pass any non-government bills that impose new taxes or involve new appropriations without the agreement of the Government.
A large proportion of private members/senators bills don’t impose new taxes. For instance, laws relating to food labelling, same-sex marriage etc.
Gary
and yet we have heard from all and sundry that this has been the worst govt in history. Go bloody figure!
Poor Dio, always being picked on. What is intersting is that you don’t mind doing just that yourself and this comes from someone who has experienced it. I think none of us is beyond giving and receiving criticism. The trick is to deal with it and move on and stop complaing about it.
TheTruthHurts
Your name sake says it all. The truth hurts that Labor are back in power.
ltep
#778
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 5:27 am | Permalink
“Ron. There’s a difference between Parliament and Government. The Parliament can pass legislation not supported by the Government without effecting the legitimacy of the Government.”
Itep , not read any posts since yours , but what you is saying is not my #760 point
There only can be one govt in practice (and not two concurrent govts …one ex Govt benchs and one ex opposition benchs , with polisy decided by a floating HoR BOP of 4 Undys) , otherwise Govt becomes ungovenable which is what i explained
it is why bob Brown has to be total unserious with what he proposd
This Bob Brown idea that i oppose total , is a COMPLETE diff concept from 4 undys (if in agree) trying to at margins change what Labor wishs to legislate , which provided within budgetry & Labor philosofhical reason , is fair enuf This was whle point of my off cuff ‘Govt’ practical response to bob Brown view , and still is
I see Crook has reconfirmed gthat he is NOT a member of the coalition, and will sit on the cross benches.
see http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/pointless-to-back-abbott-in-opposition-crook-20100908-150no.html
That article is essentially a an interpretation that would make my avatar proud. Having visited America is amazing what a messed up society they have. Los Angeles is essentially a few small pockets of wealth glued together by vast swathes of semi poverty. I never felt scared in Central LA because most of the people looked so depressed and disspirited that they didn’t have the get up and go to mug me. And the old manufacturing cities are even worse.
lwp
but we should all embrace right wing dogma. The top 10% will trickle down some morsels to the bottom 90%
Yes, and we’ve seen some of those in recent years, including from the opposition/cross benchers.
My point is that Brown’s statement is unclear. I did not hear his interview, and am only going on what has been reported in the media, so don’t know if this point was actually clarified with him or not.
Trouble is you can also link it to Gillard’s comments which, like Brandis’ and Bishop’s were too quick to judge.
TTH
If the Independents went with the Coalition, they would have had to justify a $10.6 Billion hole in their election costings as well as backing down on other issues such as the NBN and regional infrastructure funding.
Frankly I can find very few reasons why they could have supported the Coalition. All the business about them being in conservative electorates is nonsense. If it was such an issue, why would their constituents vote for an independent instead of the National party?
Also, if you’ve taken a look at Tony Windsor’s newsletters, Bob Brown is featured in a lot of them. This so called ideological divide is being over played by News Limited.
http://www.tonywindsor.com.au/newsletters.html
PINKO – And Reich isn’t nobody in the US: he’s a former labor secretary under Clinton and has a voice. I look forward to reading his new book.
lwp
on a serious note I have been reading and listening to Robert Reich for quite some time. It is a shame that the US are not listening more closely to him. I recall he served in the Clinton administration. I don’t know why this administration did not call on his services. I suspect it is because his ideas are in conflict with the ruling class.
boerwar if you go back to this morning you will see link to a msm have a read
its very confusing.???
Tarriff’s on food, sure, check out the EU they had no qualms about doing it.
The argument that food prices will go up is moot anyways, because the real rise in food prices in the last 10 years has been because woolies has been buying up all the smaller competitors who had cheaper prices, and running scams such as the uncompetitive woolie petrol plus “fuel discount” cards(guess where the money comes from to discount the fuel??) that the smaller retailers just aren’t big enough to manage to do.
For example, here in Townsville near where I live I have around 5 woolworth supermarkets. These supermarkets are about 1km apart from each other. Imagine that… 5 supermarkets… seperated by less than a kilometer… all owned by the same company. Imagine what that does to food prices. And btw, these weren’t ALWAYS Woolworths supermarkets, most were run by the smaller competitors and over the last 10 years been bought up by the woolies duopoly with Coles buying up the other ones.
There should be an immediate ban on fuel discount cards, they are pushing up prices of groceries, driving out competitors in both the fuel station and supermarket sectors yet no one in Canberra has the balls to do anything about it.
rosa
snap!
Boerwar, Thanks for your opinion
No wonder young people become disenfranchised and disengaged with the political arena. The derogatory appellation, “Sarah Extremely-Young-Hanson”, and similar admonishments is a reflection of the arrogance of some older people.
So effectively he is an independent. Libs have 72 seats then the same as Labor.
If Bob really wants to put a bomb under things, better he dedicated some quality time to nutting out (with Larissa W, Oakshott, Windsor & Combet) regional strategies re protection of prime cropping land, GAB & inland waterways, green farming & green energy, improved services etc – to announce with maximum media presence (and that includes getting in regional reporters, who complain bitterly about having to rely for relevant copy on city journos). Lot of regional journos became Rudd & Gillard fans because they sought out regional paper & TV journos instead of taking busloads of the usual Canberra press club hacks.
do you have a title, please Rosa
Are they back in “power” though.
Think about that for a moment.
TTH1126
I didnt realise you were such a market interventionist.
And do you agree with Katter’s view on the dollar?
If the AEC keeps counting the TPP of Denison without starting
on any of the other eight delayed seats then the ALP
will get up to about 50.14% vs 49.86%.
Then the TPP will start to go up and down again a little
depending on which of the other seven seats are being
counted until it settles on what I think will be a
comfortable ALP win (maybe over 50.14).
now i wonder why we dont read it
Yes they are. The Executive will function exactly the same as it always has. The Legislature will function a little differently.
TheTruthHurts
If Labor are not back in power, who is?
Why didn’t they vote for the Labor Party?
And why wasn’t the Labor Party even in the race in these electorates?
You haven’t asked those questions, and until you do you won’t understand.
These are conservative electorates, but with disenfranchised voters who are sick of the two party system. That and the fact the Nats are a dying party lets Independents come to power.
Bob Katter was a federal member for the Nats in Kennedy for many years, but when he turned Independent, people were voting for Bob Katter the person, not Bob Katter the party.
Gary 1121
What is the “trouble” with linking the final TPP win to the ALP
(as we all think is most likely) with the
initial claim by Gillard?
Maybe it was hasty but she will surely stand by it while
Brandis, Minchin and Bishop will probably (but not certainly) want to try
to retract their comments or weasle out of them.
my say @ 1101
I doubt that would help and could backfire.
My concern is that some nutter will do something silly. The political brawl is one thing and Labor should be able to handle that in due course – but I fear there are other forces at work, aided and abetted by the likes of Bolt and others.
I think one could argue the 2 Independents and the 2 Greens.
TheTruthHurts
What does conservative electorates really mean?
I agree with others that Gillard needs to come out and issue a live statement re: the illegitmacy talk. Could slip in a reference to the 2PP if she wished! Crook is certainly NOT one of tone’s numbers- back to either 72, or 73 with Katter I’m afraid, although Katter doesnt really know
@Pegasus, not SHY`s youth which worries me, more the fact that she`s a royal pain the arse.
TheTruthHurts
So therefore if the greens and indies backed the coalition. It would be the same?
Andrew
Katter is like Abbott, a weathervane
Dr Good
Any indication of when the official 2pp will be confirmed?
Name calling
Truthy
Even if it may not have applied to many people in the past, I am sure that
it crossed the minds of many and it will surely be
a strong argument in future that people can vote for an Independent
with the hope that they will be a pivotal part of a government
made of many alliances.
They got what they wanted (and it wasn’t a Liberal/TrussNational
Coalition majority government).
My Say
The editorial is worth a read.
I read the OZ today ( hairdressers). It is surely the worst national daily ever produced – not even a patch on its first few years. The news was slanted, the headlines not based on content, the commentary hilarious and the cartoons dull. The business pages are very ordinary, mainly WSJ and the sports coverage is third tier stuff. Not a single interesting piece in the entire rag. I just think of the hundreds of dollars I’ve saved over the past 20 years by not buying it.
I have no difficulty with that. I just don’t think NOW is the time to do it. Let’s wait for the final result. A couple of people are suggesting, I think, that Labor should be defending themselves now on this. I just happen to think that could be a mistake. Better to be sure than sorry.
?? what the independents being more determined in the way they work with labor?
Five sitting weeks before xmas break.
i was surprised that the opp, leader here felt that the offer of 1 billion for the hospital was a good idea.
Thats not exactly hiding until the new Senate starts.
Some people say that the TPP will not be known until later next week.
Denison is the only one of the eight delayed electorates to start TPP
already and they are maybe already one third of the way through
after less than a day. So it does not take long.
However, in some of the other seven there is still ordinary counting going
on and that must take precedence.
There are also many of the normal 142 electorates which still have
a little counting to go.
Maybe we will be close early next week unless some challenge or recount
turns up.
What a silly question Hurts. Of course they are. Gillard is PM. Would you be asking this question if Abbott had been given the nod?
Dr Good
Thanks.
2PP now out to a labour lead of 12,600
I trust the indies read this article – I think it is a stated priority for Oakeshott. Gillard should read it too and feel ashamed, given her repeated abject failures on school funding.
Time to adjust the ledger:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/bad-mark-on-school-funding-20100908-151cj.html
Brown is steering the Greens into a position where, he hopes, it will eventually be impossible for either side of the Labor/LNP divide to govern without the Greens.
He is not very far away from achieving this. The Greens already have an unassailable hold on the balance of power in the Senate. They have taken one Labor seat in the House, have designs on several more and can probably count on Wilkie as a fellow-traveler.
There are other opportunities for them in both rural and metro seats. In regional electorates, if the Greens are able to form a unity-ticket with independent voices they may take NP seats in the lower house. Consider, Windsor and Oakeshott are demonstrably Green-friendly. There will be other such allies to be found, especially if this new Parliament can be made to function effectively for anything like three years. As much as Labor, the minor voices have a great deal to gain from ensuring this Parliament is workable and has a long life.
In the metro areas, the Greens can probably see some rich pickings among Liberal seats. First, If they are able to pick up primary votes from both Labor and Liberal supporters and are able to poll ahead of Labor on primary votes, they may start to win seats from the Liberals. This is some way off, but you can bet it is Green objective. In the meantime, they will be seeking to obtain policy concessions from the Liberals in return for Green preferences in the H-o-R.
I think that in terms of pure, naked numbers, the Greens are indifferent to both Labor and the LNP. They want the balance of power and they will pursue it at the expense of both sides of the aisle.
I think this is the coming shape of politics in Australia and it reflects the indisputable reality that environmental issues will affect every single person and every single vote. The major parties have to get up to speed on this, or they will inevitably be slowly eaten alive by the Greens. This the ‘real politik’ of this century.
Those five weeks of parliament are going to be a cracker! I can hardly wait.
2PP Update
Labor 50.05
Abbott’s Army 49.95
Confessions said:
Your appraisal of BB and the words you use indicate a rigidly held belief or perception that would not be swayed by any evidence. This is indicated by “known for”.
Indeed it is. However you expressed a personal opinion only and did not provide any facts or evidence to back up your emotively laden assertion.
Ditto.
jv
public school funding cuts, and equally increased funding in private schools started many moons before under Howard.
If any party is at great risk from the new political dynamic, it is the National Party. They are being assaulted on all sides: by Labor, the Greens, Independents and the Liberals. They are an endangered species in a habitat dominated by their predators. They really have to have a long hard look at their chances.
Confessions
It will be mining tax, mining tax, mining tax in QT.
Plus some interesting committee work.
I guess we should look back to the 1st parli sessions of 1998 to see what tight second terms are like in QT.
The principle argument being advanced by Tories in the post election period as to why the independents should have backed them has been about the ideology of their electorates. Nothing to do with competence or policy. Not for a second. Little wonder they lost.
I’m inclined to agree, Gary, for a slightly different reason.
THere isn’t any doubt that Labor will win the 2PP, but the size of the lead will probably come back quite a bit when the 2PP is worked out in Windsor, Oakeshott and Katter’s seats. By focusing on it now too much (though pointing out Labor is in the lead whenever the Coalition claim otherwise is important) will undoubtedly futrther down the track refocus attention on the “views of the electorates” that the Indis hold when those particular figures arrive on the scene.
spur212
I agree with you, Windsor seems very considerate in his appraisal of the situation. I thought he might do what he did, and did you check his vote, jeez he got 56000 or so votes, the highest percent in NSW, they voted for him because of what he thinks not their so called conservative alliance ( whatever that means between the ALP and the LP these days). They are independents like it or not , like, as truth hurts says, Katter. They got in where the ALp and Libs and NP didnt and by a huge margin, and They used their vote to do the needful because they had the guts to go it alone, IF the Nats want to go it alone then they could do they same, but they have been cap in hand to the libs , the very reason why they dont win in those regional seats.
Bruce Baird: “Wyatt Roy reminds me of my granddaughter’s boyfriend.” LOL.
briefly
yes, the Nats should be worried, which in turn should worry the Libs. They can’t gain power without them.
I suspect the indies are going to ask a lot more questions in QT.
I suspect the indies are going to ask a lot more questions in QT.
If today’s displays of self-delusion and sour grapes from the Fibs are anything to go by, the resumption of parliament should be a cracker!
Bronwyn Bishop thinks that Abbott won the election!
A number of private members bills have become legislation, but AFAICT no private members bill expressly opposed by the Executive of the day has done so.
(If anyone can tell me that I’m wrong now’s a good chance.
)
evan14
How so?
Ah, Billy Snedden strikes again.
No, forget the 2PP and everything else. Abbott did not sit back and say we will not negotiate because the only mandate we will accept is most votes, most seats or the 2PP.
He was happy to go along with the negotiations until he lost. Now he is happy to see his party members claim that process did not deliver a legitimate government.
Abbott needs to be called on it. People like Bolt who are making allegations about bribery meed to be called on them. Don’t forget Brandis’ cricket allegory was a deliberate reference to bribery too.
Anyone thinking that either the Libs or the media will suddenly change their tune is living in the same la-la land that put Labor in a mess over pink batts and the BER.
Ooh I found this from the 98 hansard. took a while to come to fruition
1st q of qt 1998
So will Tony ask about the impact of mining tax on pensioners, perhaps?
Pegasus
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Confessions said:
‘Brown is a shrill populist, known for talking out both sides of his mouth, and counter to his own party’s policies.’
“Your appraisal of BB and the words you use indicate a rigidly held belief or perception that would not be swayed by any evidence.”
Evidense is something Pegasis you never rely on
Bob Brown blatant cheap popularism ?
How about Labor’s historic PPL , developed over years of Labor conferenses
Abbott a vile opponent of PPL for a decade , and then a johnny come lately pro PPL when Labor annouses a new PPL Bill in 2010 is PRAISED by Brown
‘Tony on PPL has out-Greened th Greens”
sick
It’s actually based on evidence of his own public statements on a variety of different issues: PPL, company tax, ‘governing from oppositon’ remarks today, even climate change.
I get that you can’t tolerate criticism of the Greens – in that regard you are no different from any of the other rigid partisans here. But that doesn’t make those of us willing to call out populism, hypocrisy and incompetence among our MPs bigots.
blue-green:
I expect the NBN to feature heavily in QT as well.
Someone has corrected the Wikipedia entry on “the Coalition”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_%28Australia%29
It now mentions it in the past tense and has the slightly
more correct figure of 72 seats.
Although how a non-existent entity has any seats is
a moot point.
Oh, SHY is young? I would not know her age but she is arrogant, tactless, inexperienced and dopey. Being young should actually be a relative advantage for SHY.
It means that she she should have plenty of time to learn from experience. Such as not making baseless personal attacks on individuals such as Wong who have demonstrated high integrity and high intelligence. Compared to Wong, SHY has so far demonstrated that she has absolutely nothing of substance to offer. She can flap her lips. It is time to show she can fly.
the fact that Crook does not want to be included in the coalition speaks volumes about their precarious situation as a coalition. I am of the opinion that this election result may very likely cause a split in the coalition, unless the Nationals get a bigger share of the power.
Likely,
the coalition succeeded in turning the BER from a plus to a minus.
I guess they’ll try the same with the BB.
The ALP need to counter with how it is good for Telstra shareholders.
Now, Bludgers, a very interesting story.
Less than 48 hrs after Tony Windsor identified the Coalition’s desire for a new election as the “decider” for supporting Labor (Thanks for that, Murdoch media), the Dirty Digger faces another possible blow – “possible”, for ever so familiar reasons Roy Greenslade states in the last para (below):
Coulson – and Murdoch – feel the heat as phone-hacking story gains traction
Surely this is the result that will legitimise the Government in the eyes of the Libs. Now I’m waiting for a retraction from Mesma.
Here is a link to a radio interview transcript which supports the
idea that there is currently no Coalition agreement in force.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2010/s2994912.htm
Judging from the Coalition’s response post-Independents’ Day, Tony Abbott’s “kinder, gentler polity” was clearly a non-core promise.
Parliament to be recalled on September 28.
I completely agree, victoria.
I think the result of this election and the aftermath pose great risks for the LNP, which is one reason why they will do whatever they can to destroy the new Parliament as thoroughly and as quickly as they can.
Of course, the majority have everything to gain making it a success.
This will be fascinating.
Crean just slapped back Gilbert who, strangely, was not interested in good job numbers. This continues a post-election pattern where Government Ministers are simply refusing to allow journos to distort the political agenda with loaded questions.
gary, at time Gillard made the 2PP remarks, Labor was projected to win the 2PP. This has NEVER changed since then
Dr Good#1196
I refer you to my comments at 1192.
I daresay the new agreement may have to be very different to satisfy the Nationals.
Will members be able to effectively use Question Time to ask non Government members questions? Perhaps on private members bills especially regarding funding or costing ?
When it comes to allocate shadow ministeries, how do they share between Libs, Nats and LNPers? Is there some sort of agreed framework between the three entities.
Gary
You misunderstand my point. I enjoy being criticised.
I was pointing out that a lot of criticism says a lot more about the person complaining as it is not “reality-based commantary”.
Micheal Danby is opposing the redistribution boundaries changes for Melbourne Ports. I think he has a case in terms of the electorate crossing the Yarra But that is all. The inclusion of South Yarra, Prahran and Windsor are within the community of interest criteria. Danby obviously wants to hang on to the Caulfield section of this electorate. Not sure what his chances in seeking a reversal of the recommendations are. Best of luck.
Not sure it’s living up to the independents’ agreement to have extra sitting weeks to have exactly the same number of sitting weeks as previously planned.
1203: That’s not the purpose of QT. QT is designed to keep the executive government to account. There will be ample opportunity to debate individual bills. Questions and debate in the committee of the whole for example.
Boerwar
I wonder if the ratio of seats held by each entity, determines the portfolio allocation?
What is more subversive of the constitution and political process: a minority government attempting to govern, or the opposition and the MSM banging on about illegitimacy?
I really hope Gillard has learnt that the softly approach wont work- I have not seen her make any comments about the legitimacy issue- she needs to
The Liberal Party since 1949 have only won two elections on their own (75 and 77) and came awfully close in 96 and 04 (where they got 75 seats in both elections).
The fact is that Oakeshott and Windsor have taken the first step to invalidate the National party which represents a huge threat to conservative politics in Australia.
How can the National party claim to stand up for country people when two independents (plus Katter and Crook) are doing more for regional Australia outside of a political machine?
Andrew
As I posted earlier, perhaps when Julia announces her ministry she may make a reference to it then.
Beat me to it James J. Moves to expand question time to non-ministers would be a deform rather than reform. Question time is already pretty much a waste of time as it is.
Will be interesting to see how ministers go without reading out prepared responses any more.
spur212
this may be the best opportunity yet for the govt to cause the destabilisation of the LNP. Now wouldn’t that be ironic.
Itep
What makes you think that responses will no longer be prepared?
1090
Truthy
There is a good reason why you should move back there and have “the hat” as your member.
If you go for a drive down past the Cleveland Youth Detention Centre, which is a fair size, you will get a big eyefull of the new extensions to the centre. These extensions are massive by comparison to the existing centre and probably as big as Xmas Island.
Maybe they are just working away and it will then be used as an onshore processing facility for all those brown skins that arrive by boat, the ones you don’t like, and they could be right on your doorstep.
Go and have a look next time you are out and see how easy it would be to land at the Townsville International Airport, taxi to the end of the runway, open a gate in the fence and move them in to their new massive big dormitorys being constructed there.
Maybe you could get a few of your racist redneck mates and some sandwich boards and run the fence line in protest.
The other option of course is to move back to Charlies Trowsers where the new arrivals will be out of sight and out of mind, and you can have a vote for bob in three years time.
By the way it is too late to stop it, it is half built.
I think Labor should challenge this legit Govt argument now , and head on , usin Tony’s method of slite of hand figures
and simple say
Seats under our system is decided on 2 PP votes , and we won it , and not liberals
If tony abbott by counting Liberal prefferred votes only he is therefore advocating converting system to a first past th post voting intentions test , and Labor won that also by….
Part of the parliamentary reform agreement is that there is to be less reference to notes by questioners and answerers.
Some ministers are worse than others. Senator Conroy just reads directly from his laptop.
Boerwar, I’m pretty sure that part of the reforms were a bar on Ministers reading from pre prepared speeches in response to questions. ltep will know more
How does this legitimacy argument work?
Labor won more primary votes than any other party, is leading in the 2PP vote and can command a majority on the floor of the Reps.
Why then is the Gillard Govt illegitimate?
Indeed he does
Whoops, forgot to count the Country Liberals. The Liberals have won 3 federal elections on their own (75, 77 and 96).
My point is still valid.
Was Natash Griggs, the new CLP member for Solomon, in the Libery Party Room today?
Or does she intend to caucus with Nationals?
Diogenes
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 1:08 pm | Permalink
“Gary You misunderstand my point. I enjoy being criticised.”
BS
how could you possibly enjoy being critisised when you is always wRONg
The CLP is affiliated with The Nationals federally.
Thanks ltep
Dorothy dixers are another problem. Makes half of question time even more of a joke than the other. It’s meant to be Questions WITHOUT notice. Though i think all backbenchers should have the right to ask questions of the executive and thus unfortunately bar the breaking down of party discipline and allowing government MPs to think for themselves, not much can be done.
I think the assumption that the media will pick up blatant lies needs to be killed. JG also needs to go beyond a simple rebutall the op are really good at diffusing being caught lying with a he said she said smoke screen. They need a further attack that even the ABC will report. Something like rebutall + opposition are only interested in themselves not the country. I would prefer it if it were true but it isn’t critical these days. I think they should have had 9 months of Tony is just a weather vane I think this might still be usable. What do u want govt or a weathervane? I dunno it just annoys the he’ll out of me that there is no way a journalist can say ‘x said this but it is patently untrue’
hoping that others here may of watched ,Simon Crean. he called the press conference to talk about the good job figures, also very determined to talk about what he wanted to talk about and told the journalist that was off message to wait that he had a good story to tell.wtte.
Then at the end said that it is realised that the message of the GFC policies did not get out and where not fully understood, re us as comparing with other countries,
I do beleive there seems to be a different atmospheres he mentioned that caucus was to be the decision making area ( remember how they talk about only 4 people before) also said he was graeatly looking forward to negotiation with all ,wtte.
greens and independents.
I think it s a great start.
Actually the CLP is affiliated to BOTH the Nats and Liberals.
The primary vote and seat count and TPP are all complete bunkum and irrelevant to the “legitimacy” argument. Referring to them as valid measures is actually helping the Libs.
The only measure of legitimacy is the ability to form Government, with support from the majority of Reps. Gillard has that. End of story.
Toff the reason we are so frustrated is that we know Labor and the MSM would not have run the illegitimacy line had Abbott been chosen. And 76 for Abbott would have been stable, but for Gillard it is not.
We know that the public is sensitive to what the MSM dish out, and its not a good start. Gillard must come out fighting. And the NBN defences must be up- Abbott and the MSM have indicated its their BER for this term
ltep
‘Are they back in “power” though.’
“Yes they are. The Executive will function exactly the same as it always has. The Legislature will function a little DIFFERENTLY.”
Not at all under Bob Browns idea
Legislature would be 2 concurrent Govts (Labor and Libs) with polisys in all key admin & process areas changeable by issue endless , with 4 Undys as BOP
If bob Brown sticks to that , there will be an early election as it makes Govt ungovernable
Dio, if only Abbott accepted that it was end of story. As much as it annoyed me at the time (and he had far more reason to complain), Gore’s statement post the high court decision is exactly what Abbott needed/needs to do.
Well if the Country Liberals are associated with both the Liberals and the Nationals, I’ll give the Liberal Party 75 and a half seats for the 96 election, therefore the Liberal Party have only won two federal elections since their inception.
SMH is running a “rumour” story on the NSW Government.Written by some-one called State Political Editor. What has journalism come to – run rumors,report responses or no-responses, say anything and publish. Fairfax is becoming very Rupert-like. Graham Perkin would be shifting in his grave.
How does the requirement to answer without notes square with the requirement to not mislead the House? Sen Conroy has to answer a technical questions on BB. What does he do, stand in his office with a coach, memerising details in case he is asked a question?
MY SAY – ROBERT REICH
Here is the Amazon link to the Robert Reich book, “Aftershock”. Unfortunately, I bet you will find it cheaper to get it from Amazon (even with shipping) than in Oz.
Shamefully, I’ve pretty much given up buying books in this country.
http://www.amazon.com/Aftershock-Next-Economy-Americas-Future/dp/0307592812/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284002759&sr=8-2
Why would the Gillard Government be a nine-day wonder?
In a confidence motion it can command 76, 77 or 78 votes.
Barring an unfortunate death, it is hard to see this changing (unless Wilkie, particularly, can be conned on some cooked up scandal). The indies and Green seem pretty well committed and would not welcome an early election.
But they sit in The Nationals party room right James? I should learn to be more precise.
Ron, Brown’s comments appear really silly. You’d think he’d have the good sense to not feed directly into the instability/illegitimacy argument by suggesting the opposition policies could pass
Diogenes @ 1231
You heard it here first folks.
The LNP are sore losers……so close yet so far! Labor should depict for what they are: whinging losers who do not accept the electoral and Parliamentary processes.
But the Parliament passing non-government legislation has absolutely nothing to do with the Government’s legitimacy or the stability of government.
How come a $1 Bill dollar hospital is pork, but a $340 Mill dollar hospital isn’t pork?
Andrew Wilkie and Labor are hypocrits. Wilkie shouldn’t have been offered 1 cent from either party, the bloke didn’t even win on Primaries.
“CLP members of the Federal Parliament are directed by the CLP where they are to sit. This could be with the National Party, the Liberal Party or on the cross benches.
Indicative of CLP affiliation with both Federal Coalition partners, former Senator Bernie Kilgariff sat with the Liberal Party and the National Party during his time in Canberra.”
What are the chances that Tone will accept Bob Brown’s offer of a meeting once a week? 100-1 1000-1. I don’t think so.
Toff you are spot on. Its likely that Katter and Crook would vote against or abstain in a no-confidence motion- Abbott starts at 72, and needs to get to 76 for a motion to succeed.
BTW thought it silly for Oakshott to say wtte of I’ll support Gillard until a no-confidence motion. During his indulgent speech, at pains to say how close it was (he protested WAY too much), he sounded far from decisive which didnt help his cause
I agree , we can see the legitimacy and NBN issues getting a long run by the NBN and it needs to be stopped now.
Re. The NBN, has the Govt spent time with the business groups to get them on board?
Andrew
All the people who are trying to use the TPP, primary vote and seat count as arguments are destabilising the Government.
1. TPP- is irrelevant to start off with and it has gone back and forth, so voters will think “if TPP is that important, it’s hasn’t made it’s mind up so the Govt isn’t legit”, Rann isn’t legit if TPP is that important
2. Primary vote- Irrelevant and hopelessly subject to spin using different definitions
3. Seat count-ditto
The only measure is support in the chamber and Gillard has that. The rest should not be mentioned as it turns into “he said, she said”. Support in the chamber is black and white, incontrovertible and happens to be the truth.
Diogenes#1250
Wonders never cease. I agree with you!
Unlike in other hung parliaments of the past where Oppositions have come to power as the momentum is in their favour, we have a previously sitting government heading into opposition whose party only hold on to power is through 2 independents and 2 greenies and will be dreading another election.
For example in WA the opposition took hold of power with the help of 2 independents, but there is little doubt if another election occured they would win easily.
Here we have a case of a previously sitting government on the verge of losing power. This means the independents and greens can demand all and sundry knowing they have Labor over a table. Labor are going to spend every day trying to keep the indies and greenies happy and will have little time to actually set their own policies. So no I don’t agree Labor are in “power”… a better word for it would be “powerless”.
TTH
The reason the ALP offer is not pork is because there is a great big left wing conspiracy in the media.
…
Seriously, your suggesting that Wilkie should have accepted the $1 Billion offer when the project cost a third of that amount.
From my understanding, the ALP had that projected planned and fully costed. The only issue was the timing which they’ve bought forward in order to accommodate Mr Wilkie.
I gather Gillard understand’s this, hence recalling parliament for the 28th
How come a $1 Bill dollar hospital is pork, but a $340 Mill dollar hospital isn’t pork?
Andrew Wilkie and Labor are hypocrits. Wilkie shouldn’t have been offered 1 cent from either party, the bloke didn’t even win on Primaries.
they both are pork….the 1 billion was ham-fisted the 300m brought home the bacon
Please be true
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/parliament-to-be-recalled-on-september-28-as-julia-gillard-confirms-election-review/story-fn59niix-1225916420525
I guess your argument about Wilkie not winning on the primaries means that the ALP should have won Denison.
I think Possum, might be right. The great unhinging has well and truly begun!
More of this please.
WOOHOO!
Truthy is back from exile!
And Diogenes is right. This is precisely the rebuttal that was put to Sophie Mirabella this morning when she started on about “more votes, higher TPP” etc.
‘Governing from opposition’ is the best newspeak ive heard in a long while. thats a really desperate try. A party of sociopaths.
Pyne on LL last night had moved from “illegitimate” to “unelected”. That is “faction powerbrokers” installed Julia as PM and now independents have installed her as PM therefore she has never been elected.
Never mind that “unelected” in this sense applies to every PM.
The general populace have invested emotionally in the idea that our leaders are directly elected.
This sounds less shrill than “illegitimate” and has the potential for a lot of legs if not stamped on.
I noticed that TJ let Pyne get close to the end of his exposition before pulling him up to answer the actual question.
I think you will find the Coalition offer was for a brand new hospital whereas Labors plans to just do up the current crumbling 206 year old hospital.
The punters of Hobart should remember what Wilkie knocked back next time they are at the polling booths.
confessions I completely disagree. Joe Public doesnt give a jot what happens in parliament. Abbott with the help of the MSM has dominated news coverage, which is what the punters want. Labor needs a more aggressive media strategy not bury their heads in the sand and just try to do a good job. That happened last time
I am not asking for it to be refuted by using the 2PP figures, either now or when the count is completed, but that the legitimacy line is killed.
If not, it will colour everything the Govt does, one criticism of the NBN, i heard was “how can you trust the Govt with a $43bn network when they can’t install pink batts”
Dio @ 1231
Exactly. This is no time to start debating on irrelevant issues. Abbott accepted the method needed to decide government. He lost, so now he is trying to pretend that the very system he went along with makes the government illegitimate.
Call him on it, repeatedly.
TTH
How can you fund $1 Billion for a new hospital when you have a systemic $10.6 Billion hole in your election costings?
Wilkie is likely to lose Denison at the next election regardless of who he supports. The Greens would preference the ALP ahead of him if he supported the Coalition. He got there on a loophole and I see no reason why he shouldn’t take full advantage of it.
TruthHurts
Brand new hospital or not the $1 billion was never meant to happen it was only to be “factored into long-term plans” as stated by Robb.
How’s this for the opening paragraph of this fairy story which starts on the front page of the Adelaide Advertiser today:
There are fears Julia Gillard’s “rainbow coalition” Government will overlook voters in the suburbs as it panders to the Greens and country independents.
It’s largely an anonymous piece, though there’s a small tagline “with Sarah Martin” at the end on Pag4 4.
“Political sources” are cited and Business SA boss Peter Vaughan thinks pork barreling to secure a parliamentary majority has “disenfranchised the bulk of voters in middle Australia”.
Lib Senator Simon Birmingham warns there’s a danger SA could be left behind.
Nineteen paragraphs into the story, Senator Nick Xenophon delivers something positive:
I think this will be a new era of politics, it will be a high-wire act, but I think there is enough goodwill there for it to work.
Oh dear. Rupert’s tentacles are stretching out everywhere.
Why hasn’t 10 Years of Labor-Greens government not fixed the Hobart Hospital problem?
That is afterall a state issue. I find it very disgraceful that Wilkie should take the hospital issue up federally without blasting his Labor-Green failed state government for failing to deliver.
Confessions,
Actually, I rarely become involved in personality politics. I never make personal comments about any individual politician of any persuasion. My posts usually consist of sourced evidence in response to the more egregious BS bandied about here of Greens Party policies and emotive, unsubstantiated opinions designed to discredit individual Greens parlimentarians.
You really don’t get it. I do not agree with every aspect of any political party’s policy, religion, creed, or philosophy. On balance, for me, the Greens Party platform best represents, for me, at this point in time, the vision of a fairer and more equitable society which I hope for.
It will not happen in my life time but I retain my optimism. My feet are firmly grounded in reality. I do not care if the Greens disappear from the political scene so long as aspects of many of their policies and its long term vision are adopted by the major parties.
By all means, criticise the Greens but I prefer a rational and evidence-based argument rather than opinions solely based on belief.
Ron
Yeah, right. Coming from you that is hilarious
Boerwar
She was born December 23, 1981 which makes her 28 yo. From where I sit that is indeed young
The Coalition also held its first party room meeting, with Tony Abbott telling MPs they had made the country proud, and would continue to do so for the next three years.
How exactly have they made the country proud? By using divisive and scaremongreing tactics. STOP THE BOATS treating AS as nothing but a politicas toy to fight over. Or have they made Australia proud by using outright lies and deception to win at all costs. GBBH. Or perhaps could it be that have deceived almost half the population with their Waste and debt manstra and are still dividing the nation over the “We won” argument.. Yes they should be very proud of themselves.
If Gillard recalls the parliament for September 28 then this parliament term of office will be until September 28, 2013. I am still of the belief that the next election will be a double dissolution and may be held within 18 months. Much depends in the Greens and their ability to support stable government. If they continue to push for the policies they pursue then YES we will be back at the polls son after July 1. I doubt Bob Brown will be seeking another term of office and with his retirement the Green support will drop.
Truthy
You forgot the bit about the boats. If GP was known to be lurking, I would refine by saying that you forgot the bit about the egregious boats.
nothing more legitimate than having the GG sewar in the new ministry, with lots of photo ops
and then the ceremonial opening of the new parliament, GG’s speech written for her by JG, and the first QT with the ALP sitting to the right of the speaker
The Greens and to a lesser extent the IND’s would be losers in a DD election and given that O and W want the parliament to go 3 years they will be determined to make it work to justify their decision. Make no mistake Labor is in government and in power.
cheers
It seems that Abbott has already bitten the hand held out to him by the greens. No thanks, what me work with you lot of stringy-haired, mungo-bean-eating, tree hugging whale copulators? No, we are going to be too busy trying to topple the usurping, tax-hiking, empire destroying Labor-scum.
Business as usual.
Adam Bandt was just saying it is such a shame because there are areas for co-operation e.g. mental health.
Andrew:
You’ve misunderstood me. I totally agree the govt should get on the front foot and tackle this stuff. But they should do it using the reality of the circumstances. The ireality is that in the event no party wins a majority in their own right, they have the chance to try to form a govt. Both sides had the same opportunities to form a govt, but only Labor was able to achieve this. Therefore Labor gets to govern.
blackdog
Not to be needlessly pedantic, but should that be Liberal Party (not Coalition)?
It is still not clear to me that Liberals and Nationals are in coalition
although the legitimacy issue may seem minor….i think these things grow…at first a small kernel that grows until it talks hold….if you look at the last term attacks…at first small attacks on rudd…his temper, his overseas travel, his dictatorial style…every time adding bit by bit to the seed germinating in the minds of the unaware and uncommitted…..until it reaches a critical mass…..then you get the conditions for the “waste”, “bad government” and “poor economic managers” themes that nearly brouaght the whole house down…
Stamp on this now
You could give Pyne a swift knee to the groin and his voice would be the same.
That’s lost me a bit DaW. Are you suggesting the Greens will stop supporting Labor and cause the election, or will Labor get frustrated with the Greens and call the poll, or will the independents vote no confidence because the Greens are pushing their policies?
He might be gently reminded that he’s arguing against minority government per se there, not Gillard. Abbott is unelected, and according to Pyne’s logic would remain so if the independents had sided with him. If he’s got a problem with the way our government is constitutionally decided, then he is free to argue that. I don’t know how far he’d get, though.
If he has an issue with the way Gillard became PM in the first place, there’s two answers:
1. She ran, unopposed, when Rudd decided not to contest. Therefore she has unaninmous party support. And in this country, the party is elected by the people and the leader is decided by the party.
2. She put that to the test in this election, and was able to form government. Once again, if he doesn’t like minority government, he can take it up with the constitution. Or he can shut up, which is what I would recommend.
TT – and I commented on that story, pointing out that whenever the Libs are out of office, they and their shills in the business industry become glass half-empty doom merchants, regardless of how well the economy is ticking over (as it is now). I also made mention of how Xenophon’s response is the correct one: it may well work, why don’t we just wait and see rather than just pooh-poohing it before anything has happened in the parliament.
I also said that if The Advertiser wanted to print every press release verbatim rather than engaging journalists to ask intelligent questions and report the responses accurately and honestly then they needed to start doing it for BOTH sides of the political divide, not just for the Coalition.
Needless to say, they didn’t print my comment.
I voted Greens in the Senate and I sincerely hope that they learn enough reality fast enough not to get us all mugged on their behalf.
If SHY wants to attack individuals on their AGW record, she could start with the arch AGW wrecker – Abbott, and she could support allied thinkers such as Wong. Instead of stupidly doing the opposite.
1279: It was the coalition party room. The Liberal and National parties have a written coalition agreement. That agreement is still in force. They are in coalition.
And it’s been pointed out to you several times that there is no way that Gillard can compel Windsor and Oakeshott et al to provide a DD trigger. But whatever.
Lacoon
Obviously not my words but the words of the OO
As I said they should be ashamed of themselves.
He seems to be suggesting the Greens will obstruct Labor, and Labor will renege on their government deal by calling a DD election and waltz back into power without the Greens holding the balance of power in the Senate.
In other words, pure fantasy.
Abbott said that ‘Australia’ is ‘proud’ of the Liberal Party. Methinks that 50% or thereabouts of Australia have utter contempt for the Liberal Party.
Actually I do. I call out Brown’s populism wrt governing from opposition, and talking out of both sides of his mouth on taxes vs impost on budget, and get called a bigot by you for doing so.
I’m happy to participate in evidence-based argument, but if you just want to call people names when they post something you disagree with, then leave me out of it. I’m simply not interested.
Thanks.
It’s interesting that the formal agreement between the Liberal and National parties is being talked about. Normally it isn’t considered an issue.
More evidence of the great unhinging.
Great… we’re going to get our own birthers.
What can we call them… “counters” maybe?
Don’t forget Abbott won the Lib leadership by one vote.
As time goes by, will this motley crew stick together?
Weren’t Labor’s parents married? What a bastard.
A bit like the $1bn Abbott offered wilkie to get him onside.
Grey
With Abbott being the unhinged one, maybet Pyne could be the undescended one.
slightly off topic, but notice how no one in the media repeated Wilkie’s comments at the press conference when he announced support for Labor, and then on 7.30 report. The comments I refer to is regarding Howard and the false pretense of going to War in Iraq. I could be wrong, but I have yet to read any commentary by a journo analysing Wilkie’s statement.
Did anyone see this bit on the ABC yesterday, which was later editted out for the news? Julia Gillard PM (as I will deliberately denote her, and so should all newsreaders; the ABC is not!) and Tony Abbott were getting ready to to into a hall (I think it was a Remembrance Ceremony). Julia asked”Do we go in together?” An aide said “You go first.” Julia seemed a bit disconcerted obviously thinking the polite thing to do was for both to go in together.
But Abbott had to wait and follow Julia Gillard PM into the official function. Abbot’s expression was interesting to see. The loss could not have been shafted home any clearer. Later in the ABC news that little scene was cut out.
Julia really needs to understand she really is the PM, moving into the Lodge should help.
Back row to front row of the vienna boys choir
James J
Thanks…do you have a link to the agreement? I have searched both their sites without success.
The SMH reports it as a Liberal party room meeting; NewsCorp, with its usual journalist standards of accuracy, refers to as a Liberal and Coalition party room meeting in the same article
BK
My son has a Tenterfield Terrier pup with that problem; he has to take him to the vet to be fixed. Wonder the vet will do a discount for two?
Vets don’t like doing feral animals, they might bite… or in this case, whine
I expect Abbott to ask Pyne to ring Cameron in the UK and tell him that his government is illegitimate and that he hasn’t been elected by the British people. That will show how well we colonials understand the system left to us and should go down very well.
Truthy,
How do you expect Tony to pay for all these big bonuses for Independents? + the 11 billion dollar hole?
I reckon Pyne’s problem is that they haven’t dropped. BK more than hinted that.
Labor now 16,186 ahead in the 2PP.
The SMH has gone with the Libs’ legitimacy line, and still there is no response from the govt:
As I said earlier, the Libs are good at growing a concept. Pyne using ‘unelected’ is just another way of saying ‘illegitimate’ – it’s the concept that matters. They are far more practised and highlight the amateur approach Labor took before and during the election when ministers would trot out the exact same phrase in one day. The Libs seem to have a more protracted and patient approach and grow concepts that ultimately lead to the desired phrase (that’s where their focus groups kick in).
I agree with you imaXXXXXandivote @ 280. The govt should have press releases going out to the news services and not rely on a few good words uttered by Simon Crean on a TV show that no one was watching. They need to blitz the media outlets. The submarine tactic hasn’t worked in the past term, and I’d say it is clearly not working right now.
If Sharman Stone’s seat does go in the redistribution, will she retire or try to move to another seat?
Dio
I have never said that the TPP of first preference votes are a way of giving
a government legitimacy. I agree that it is who can maintain the
confidence of a majority in the house that is the legit PM.
However, the right-wing cheerleaders are claiming all sorts of incorrect things
about the numbers of votes and seats etc, and what that might mean.
We don’t have to stay silent when rubbish is spouted and I don’t intend to.
Interestingly I think that, with a rather muddy connection between
the election platforms and the final government make up,
the government should now be claiming what is called a “Doctor’s Mandate”
do be able to do whatever is needed to keep the economy going well
and tackle the major issues of the day, including climate change.
Puff: I am a vet and the really small ones are harder to find and should cost more (lol)
because the proposed hospital already planned around the existing one
costs around 550 million thats why truthy
the tax payer and the libs where giving us more than required.
How would this scenario play in relation to Senate/ Half Senate elections in the future?
ALP plays things cautiously until the new Senate forms in July 2011. Then ALP with Indies in HoR and Greens in Senate take on the media. I don’t mean in piddling little reforms but to crush them totally with the full weight of resources of the Govt behind them. The ALP could well lose the following next election but if the Senate were to stay in ALP/Green control for some elections after that then I think that could well be a sacrifice worth making in the short term.
My reading of the above extract is that a bill can originate inn the House of Representatives. It does not have to be a Government bill, it could be a private members bill or a bill proposed by the opposition. If that bill is then rejected by the Senate (Twice) The Governor General on her own volition can be called on to dissolve the parliament. The trigger for a DD can be initiated in the current session, if the bill is further rejected within 3 months of the first rejection. I am not sure if an DD is triggered before July 1 is that will also result in the expiration of the new senates term of office before they take office. This could be an interesting turn of events. Obviously if the commencement of the trigger does not occur before April then the second rejection would have to be undertaken by the new Senate.
The provision of Section 57 does not apply to votes of no-confidence or Supply.. It can be any bill. Such is the potential threat of a Private members bill.
Brisoz
Don’t forget that it was a systemic hole in the Coalition’s costings. A $11 Billion hole implies one policy (which is grossly inaccurate)
I did enjoy watching Maxine McKew blame all and sundry for her losing one of the very NSW seats that went to the Coalition.
The ego of this woman is incredible. After watching her performances and snobbiness on Q & A I knew she was a done dinner. But did she take it on the chin when she lost? Of course not, her ego wouldn’t allow it so she blamed the “Labor Party Campaign”(which for all it’s criticism managed to stop big swings in all but Maxines seat in NSW).
Perhaps if Maxine spent some more time in here electorate talking to the “great unwashed” and less doing her make-up and hair in Canberra she might have held on.
I grow; I prosper:
Now, gods, stand up for bastards!
King Lear, 1. 2
Not sure if the GG is compelled to act under such circumstances. It coulod be optional or on advise from the Government.
The trouble is that if you get rid of them we in the gallery lose most of our entertainment. I don’t think Nicola Roxon, for example, was asked more than three or four questions by the opposition for the entire parliament. You’ll ruin QT if she can’t use DDs to get under Peter Dutton’s skin.
Yes. I’m sure Nicola and the others had not the faintest idea what question would be asked.
Can you prove otherwise?
State responsibility.
Why aren’t the Labor-Green alliance in Tassie getting a grilling. They’ve only been in power for what… 10 years?
Thinking about the truth, what happened to the dozens of boats, and thousands of asylum seekers, that the MSM were saying were on their way to arrive during the election campaign?
is that doubleplusgood?
no we had been over this for so long about two years in fact, it was going to be at the old ship yards an area that in my opinion and others is far to beautiful a spot to put a hospital ( hope that does sound awful) but park lands would be more suitable for all people well or unwell. Then it was decided to keep the hospital closer to the city center as this benefits the trade in the city, especially after the Myer fire.
so the plans are well and truly drawn, if we had accepted the 1 billion this would of been used up in feasibility studies and years and years of more talk.
no we had been over this for so long about two years in fact, it was going to be at the old ship yards an area that in my opinion and others is far to beautiful a spot to put a hospital ( hope that does sound awful) but park lands would be more suitable for all people well or unwell. Then it was decided to keep the hospital closer to the city center as this benefits the trade in the city, especially after the Myer fire.
so the plans are well and truly drawn, if we had accepted the 1 billion this would of been used up in feasibility studies and years and years of more talk.
1314: The GG would act on the advice of the Prime Minister.
VICTORIA – The White House won’t listen to Robert Reich because the US is a Donocracy (or is that Donorocracy?) That’s why political donation reform might be the most important thing that a gillard minority govt does.
TTH #1317
I did enjoy Maxine McKew defeating a sitting Prime Minister in 2007.
The ego of Honest John is incredible. After watching his performances as Prime Minister for 11 years, I knew he would eventually lose his seat. Of course could stay out of the spotlight this year when his love child with Bronwyn Bishop was the Opposition leader? Of course not!
Perhaps if Honest John spent some time talking to people in his electorate in 2007 instead of preaching his pre-copernican obscurantism to the nation, he might have held on, but instead he was the first sitting Prime Minister in 80 years to lose his seat at an election!
Ministers not being able to check their QT briefs is ridiculous. If it gets too difficult, in terms of arcane detail, Ministers will do what they have always done: answer the questions by taking the questions on notice.
rosa
Political donations are made by vested interests. These vested interests are huge monopolies. Do you recall the recent Supreme Court ruling that corporations are deemed to have rights under law as legal persons? The US is a democracy in name only.
BOERWAR – When I was watching the Gathering Storm (Albert Finney playing churchill) I was a little surprised to see that Churchill spoke in the Commons (1930s) with a little pad of notes. Would that have been true?
I do recall that Churchill used to memorise his speeches to the commons. Indeed, in 1908 he spoke on a topic for about 40 minutes and then “dried up”. Some people thought the episode was the end of his political career.
So if legislation is proposed in relation to say the definition of unauthorised migrants or rejecting the right of Gay Marriage and it is passed by the Hour of Reps and rejected by the Senate. The same legislation is once again proposed unamended by the House and the Senate refuses to pass the legislation this would trigger the possibility of a DD. As we already know the trigger of a Double Dissolution does not need to be the focus of an election campaign. it is just a means of flushing out the Senate. Such a move would not be in breach of the undertaking given by the Independents. Its all part of the game play. One that the opposition will be sure to consider when the time is right.
Yep which gave her an ego trip all the way up to the next election when the punters saw her for the snobby stuckup socialite that she was.
Say what you will about Howard but he was graceful in defeat, Maxines been jumping around yelling how awesome she is since election day.
Bennelong should still be a Labor seat, but with such an awful candidate it’s no wonder it’s a Lib seat again.
I did not enjoy McKew’s public denial of the obvious in relation to Rudd’s resignation. I did not enjoy McKew’s defeat speech. I did not enjoy McKew’s defeat.
From hero to no-one in three short years. A pity.
Ahhh — Truthy you’re back! Wonderful. Too few posters here that made me laugh as hard as you do, in recent weeks, so you’ve been missed.
Dio — agree with your assessment of the ‘statistics’.
2PP favours Labor now at 51%, so it is no longer relevant according to the opposition, at least. Though I note Madame Mirabella tried to tell Speers this morning that the coalition had won that — which he corrected quite vehemently (and of course, she just brushed it aside as irrelevant then) — there might be hope for Speers yet, although I do expect that it is more self-preservation … if we get 3 years of ALP govt, he’ll need to balance things out a little for a while, I expect.
The primary? Well ALP is the only single party to win the primary vote with 8% more than the Libs:
Australian Labor Party 4,705,486 37.99 -5.40
The Greens 1,456,437 11.76 +3.97
Liberal 3,770,359 30.44 +0.74
Liberal National Party of Queensland 1,130,947 9.13 +0.61
The Nationals 462,216 3.73 +0.16
Country Liberals 38,335 0.31 -0.01
If the Libs want to maintain that the ALP and Greens are in coalition … then between them they got 49% of the primary vote — a darn sight more than the 4 party coalition of 43%.
Confidence on the floor of the house is justified on primary vote count, if the above is the case, or the 2PP is taken to be most meaningful — ALP dominates.
The coalition can jump up and down and carry on as much as they like … their arguments are moot.
gosh around 1938 it was built not 207 years ago truthy Bowen and gov Collins settled Hobart 206 years ago just out side my kitchen window at risdon cove then moved to Hobart the following year.
there was no hospital only tents so are you thinking we still have a tent
there where many old building that served as hospitals in early days even the woman factory where single mums and convict woman where sent, then another hospital in Battery point called the queens alexandra for woman etc.
and other building long forgotten.
I like the sound of that but I’ve got no idea what it is!
VICTORIA – totally agree. Best hope for the US I suppose is if the Republicans get back in (show that they are totally inept – as they will) and then the Democrats trounce them in 2012 and finally do something to fix the mess. But that means things will get a lot worse before they get better.
Truthy,
I am still waiting for you to answer whether you agree with Katter on pegging and devaluing the AUstralian dollar?
I am looking forward to John Alexander defending the rights of failed property developers and publically mourning the loss of backyard tennis courts in our leafy suburbs.
He should be a massive boost to the intellect of our parliament.
There’s a difference between referring to notes for details of specific programs and reading, word for word, a prepared speech in response to a Dorothy Dixer (or question they’ve anticipated). This is the distinction the government agreement seeks to make and that both parties have signed up to.
What you continue to fail to recognise is that the bill has to pass the HoR twice, appropriately spaced, to serve as a DD trigger. In other words at least 4 of the 6 indies/minors have to vote for the bill the second time around in the full knowledge that they are setting up a DD trigger. If they don’t wish to provide a DD trigger they will vote against the bill in the HoR second time around and there will be no DD trigger.
The Gillard government cannot compel Windsor and Oakeshott et al to provide a DD trigger. It shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
Hold on tight everyone.
Perhaps the first big spray of the new term.
TTH@1317
MM was correct. The Labor campaign was just not focussed and I am sure that the review carried out will determine all the areas that they fell short in. That is one good thing about Labor – it always does a review. Libs don’t do review because they always think that they won but that it the othe team that cheated them.
Your statement
tells me that you are a very small small man.
Maybe. This is the GG perogative is it not? How long would a trigger remain in play? For the term of the existing House of Represestatives, up until the April 28, 2013?
If a double was on the cards then it would be in the interst of the Govrnment to go to the polls before being pushed. This was the mistake Gough made in 1975. He should have called the election and been on the front foot.
I still wonder if that’s one of Katter’s points Abbott agreed to.
1320: Wasn’t there a government QT strategy document or something leaked or accidently sent to journalists a year or two back which detailed questions backbenchers would ask to ministers? I seem to recall something along those lines.
adam abdool @1344
Everyone knows the best place to get your hair done is Mosman and not Canberra.
The drier air in Canberra gives you split ends.
vivi63
re the undescended. You could charge a finders fee?
Amen to that!
rosa
Churchill is one of my least fav pollies. Vastly over-rated by anglophones everywhere, IMHO.
It does not have to be a governmnet bill. And yes I am aware of the fact that it needs to pass the lower house twice.
McKew will always be remembered as the 2nd person in Australian history to defeat a sitting Prime Minister in their electorate.
The result at this election for her was disappointing and it understandably showed in her concession speech on the ABC, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that she got rid of Honest John and she will always be a Labor hero!
spur212
Ms McKew was also one to few to respond to me email criticising the govt for dropping the ETS. Not even my local member responded.
I think the government can just not present the bills for Assent. I think it has been done before. But still, to think the Indies would go back to an election one millisecond before they have to is IMO fanciful.
Of course it would. Gillard agreed to the next election being held no sooner than September 2013.
The Opposition cannot choose the timing of a DD election. That is completely in the hands of the Government. There’s also the possibility (very slight) that a GG will refuse to grant a DD if the PM cannot provide at least some evidence of the unworkability of the parliament. If it’s clear that the triggers were manufactured the GG may refuse to grant the election. The obvious precedent against this is 1975, when Fraser was granted a DD on legislation his party opposed.
Itep
Who cares whether someone reads a speech? The real issue is whether the Speaker turns into a a short-tempered, short-patienced dictator on relevance in answers, and on fact and not policy in questions.
If so, QT will work; if not, not.
I imagine that the first task of Abbott will be to try a no-confidence motion. The second task will be test the Speaker. I anticipate plenty of questioners banished to the parliamentary coffee shop in the early sittings.
Although the response was ever so brief.
(“Doctor’s mandate”)
Maybe something like doing what’s best for the health of patient, with permission or not.
Triggers can be stored up by the Government for any length of time, up to 6 months prior to the expiration of the House of Representatives by the effluxion of time. This was proved by the 1983 DD.
More speculation.
Wong for AG which she would be good at.
Feeney to replace Arbib as Right overlord.
And would Oakeshott have a new portfolio or an existing one if he jumps in?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/politicians-return-to-rainbow-parliament/story-fn59nqgy-1225916226113
I agree with Dio posts at 1231 and 1250 on the legitimacy of the Labor Government. I also agree with imaxx post at 1280 that there is a danger that the “illigitimacy” meme could do great harm. The proper response is for Gillard to use the first opportunity to call upon Abbott to exercise discipline over the irresponsible members of parliament on his side who ought to know better. For a member of parliament to even imply that the Government is in any way illegitimate is to undermine a fundamental tenet of our democracy that whoever controls the confidence of the HoR holds executive power. Further, that for so long as Abbott stands by and allows our democratic parliament to be traduced, he is not worthy of holding the responsible post of Leader of the Opposition, a position in which he publicly asserts he is exceptional, without any evidence. Now is his chance to start to demonstrate it.
Such a statement would properly refocus the debate, not on the nonsense of legitimacy, but on the proper conduct of Abbott as Leader of the Opposition. It is pertinent to note that under section 80.2 of the Criminal Code provides:
(1) A person commits an offence if the person urges another person to overthrow by force or violence:
(b) the Government of the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory; or
(c) the lawful authority of the Government of the Commonwealth.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 7 years.
Whilst there is no suggestion any of the foolish fibs are urging others to overthrow by force or violence “the lawful authority of the Government of the Commnowealth”, there is no doubt that their misleading comments regarding the legitimacy of the Government are but a short, admittedly significant, step away.
dio have decided not to respond to the aust. links.
BOERWAR – Churchill only did a year of good work when all of his flaws, strangely, became virtues.
blue-green:
Are you being serious about John Alexander boosting the intellectual capacity of parliament? Or is that your dry sense of humour? I can’t tell sometimes.
Personally I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen. I can’t see him making any great contribution, but maybe I’ve misjudged him.
Diogenes, don’t forget the rumours that a Greens senator is being considered for a ministry
Looks like Sartor is likely to quit NSW politics before the March election.
I don’t like the guy, but I respect him. He was the only one who could have driven the necessary reform NSW needed. They would have been better of choosing him over a pretty face.
Is Wilson Tuckey’s press conference at 3pm AEST or WA time?
triton
We can do that if it’s an emergency and the patient isn’t able to give consent. Otherwise we always speak to the family, Guardianship Board etc.
DIOGENES – How does one get appointed as “Right Overlord”. Is there a formal ceremony? Is there a sacrificial offering? Do you have to put your hand in a vat of burning coals and keep it there?
There is no harm in having a trigger or right to call a double dissolution, If a fresh election is required then a double dissolution would be the best option. Its a question of who will go to the polls.
CONFESSION – John Alexander won’t even improve the tennis ability of parliament. Did he ever get out of the quarters in a major?
Confessions,
He is a lightweight who was pre-selected in a proper grassroots pre-selection on the sole basis that he would personally bankroll the local campaign- and thus saving the pockets of local members.
If I could shred only two ‘maiden speeches’- it would be his; and Lee Rhainnons
Any bill can be a DD trigger but the PM must advise the GG that a trigger exists under section 57 and request that a double dissolution be granted. The GG cannot act alone without a request.
So after the dismissal of the Whitlam government, Malcolm Fraser as Prime Minister used the DD triggers created by his own party while Whitlam was PM to request a double dissolution which Sir John Kerr granted. His actions to appoint a new Prime Minister to be given that advice is controversial.
It is the Governor General’s choice whether to allow the double dissolution, but she must act on advice before considering the request.
I would think it is implicit in the Constitution that a double dissolution should not be granted until after the new Senate takes its seats. The Governor General would be certain to request independent legal advice if she was asked to grant a double dissolution before July 1 next year and there is precedent of govern generals seeking such advice.
ltep
Over a lot of people’s dead bodies!!
smccredie
Time to start building another Tower, in Canberra.
Itep
That’s what I thought. Having such a trigger up your sleeve could be useful if and when the time comes. I would not think the government would be afraid of such, in fact I would think they would like to have this option.
Any bill that has met the requirements of Section 57 that is.
There will be no DD. The Indies will not set up a trigger for a DD.
Business deals ending up in the high court is not a great CV item for a new MP.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/extennis-ace-hopes-for-end-to-dispute-over-white-city-20100206-njv6.html
We’ve had 6 DD’s all-up — 4 of which were called by Libs — the last of which was 23 years ago.
Funny how the press speculate about it so much since it is a rarity.
blue-green: I thought you were being wry!
Antony Thanks
My thoughts exactly.. At what stage must the POEm advise of the trigger.. When calling an election I guess. So the trigger could be created within the next 10 months and used anytime between then and the expiration of the term of office of the lower house less six months (April 28, 2013).
rosa
I’m pretty sure there is a tattooing ceremony and a few rituals. The Simpsons had an episode on it.
If you are against the Liberal Govt’s land grab of James Price Point on the Dampier Peninsular and its deliberate attempt to by-pass native title traditional owners then you can at least make a start by going to Get Up’s site on this issue.
Here is the link;
http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/Homelands&id=1386
Yes, John Alexander is in the pantheon of Australian tennis greats with such luminaries as Mark Kratzman and Broderick Dyke. He wore great sweatbands though.
To his credit he doesn’t seem like your nasty liberal in the Sophie Mirabella style.
Where in the consitution does it provide for such a limitation? or is this convention only?
Via Crikey’s Tiips & rumours Section
Alexander’s ‘maiden’ speech should be brilliant if his interviews are anything to go by
It almost up there with JG’s/Kodos’ “twirling, twirling” rhetoric.
Anthony or willimam, what is happening with the Abetz court case, re his passport.
It is entirely unclear, but at least two GGs, on occasions of three DDs, have either explicitly or implicitly asserted their power to refuse a DD request (despite acceding to these requests).
It is almost certain (IMO) that a GG would refuse such a request where the government presented a bill that it had opposed in the House as a trigger (1975 notwithstanding!), or where there was clear evidence of collusion between the government and opposition in order to provide a trigger.
sorry william
my reading of Section 57 is that the limitation is on the term of the lower house not the upper-house. If that is the case then a trigger before July 1 would still apply and be available for use.
thank you to who
ALP way ahead on 2PP now. What seats have gone back in? Just Denison, or others?
I really hope and pray his speech is all about this. The lost of tennis courts is the greatest tragedy (insert emoticon crying crocodile tears)
Diogenes: I’ve deduced from your comments that you have very eclectic reading and viewing tastes!
It can be implied from the nature of the mechanism. The nature of the mechanism is that it is a method to resolve deadlocks between the House of Representatives and the Senate. If another mechanism is available (ie the changeover in Senate composition) the GG might consider this to be the correct course of action.
The term “Doctor’s Mandate” was used with respect to a coalition government
in the UK in the early 1930s because it was not clear what parts of the
coalition had what sort of mandated platforms from the people.
It allowed the government to claim that it was able to do whatever was
necessary to keep the country in good order.
No! Any request for a trigger based on existing Senate votes before July 1 next would almost certainly see the GG request the bill first be submitted to the new Senate to test the bills support. The Senate has fixed terms and it would be implicit in the constitution that you could not dissolve the terms of the Senators elected this year on the basius of deadlocked legislation that they themselves have not voted on. The GG would almost certainly ask for senior legal advice for such a request.
Just Denison at the moment.
AEC Virtual Tally Room at 32:18 pm.
ALP : 5,898,461.
LIB/NAT : 5,881,315.
ALP 17,146 votes ahead.
Stop the Boats.
Wishful thinking. I do not think the GG would be in a position to pick and choose. If the recommendation is to call a dd on what ever grounds the GG would be obligated to consent..
NOWHERE
As explained only about 8000 times, the government will need the support of independents/minors to create a DD trigger, and these will almost certainly not do so.
blue-green:
I’m definately keeping an ear out for JA’s maiden speech after that effort!
when yuou bring in melbourne it will increase the ALP 2PP voet also. Preliminary Analysis of the Senate vote indicates also that the ALP won the 2PP vote in the upperhouse also.
The message from this election is this “Every one of the 150 seats is important, and every vote counts, and it is democracy at it’s best”. May the proactive, hardworking members be returned, and may the ones that aren’t be turffed out (eg McKew)
Wilson on ABCNews24 Now
On Assent issues, after some readings, Im coming to the following view. Just want to ehck it with teh PB brains trust:
Quentin Bryce would actually be ill-advised to refuse assent to any bill passed by both houses, irrespective of the advice coming from the Federal Executive Council (ie ALP + possibly Oakeshott).
Hence, the main tool in the government’s hands will be whether or not to declare a given piece of legislation an issue of confidence, will resging if passed etc. This they can certainly do this – though the bill would need to have a certain gravity in and of itself. If Gillard did do this, reckon the indies would no doubt run a mile from any such bill proposed by the opposition, for reasons of their own self-interest (not wanting an election).
the only thing Im not clear on about bills that have a major impact on the budget and expenditure. Are these potentially in a different category – requiring assent from the “GG in Council” rather than the “GG” i.e on the advice of the executive?
I gather the Greens have already said they wont support bills in this category from the opposition.
As I say, thats just my preliminary reading – but Im far from clear on it – so feel free to comment….
I would be surprised if this were the case actually, as I think the history of the reading of this section has been fairly formalistic.
I would not be surprised if a GG presented with such a request would refuse on the basis that the incoming Senate should be permitted to conisder the question.
Wilson unloading now…
Having a good cry about primary votes etc.
People are still claiming that there is a Coalition agreement in force.
There is no evidence for this.
Even Wikipedia has now been corrected: it is in the past tense.
I went:
I meant:
Confessions
Its all about the tennis courts. If only he was a cross-bench Indy. We could have had an urban tennis court fund. It would enable multi-millionaires to get subsidies to buy and knock-down their neighbors property to build a tennis court for their private summer parties.
As stated a thousand times it is not just the government that can cause a double. And yes IT NEEDS to be passed by the lower house twice without amendment BUT it could be on the basis of both the government and or opposition. I would think Marriage and or Asylum detention would secure cross party support without independent/Green approval. A private members bill is all that is required.
What is Wilson talking about with the Senate?
As Antony just said (since you clearly won’t listen to me) GGs (eg Munro Ferguson, Sthphen) have traditionally asserted their right to refuse a DD election – it is a reserve power. They are not obliged to act on advice in this regard.
Wilson’s right on Senate representation.
100 party votes = 1 Senator
lefty e, did you read the paper I linked to earlier by Anne Twomey? Esteemed commenter Graeme Orr provided it a couple of weeks ago:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1007341
Essentially it’s uncertain which way the GG would decide and the Government would be ill advised to put the GG such a position.
I don’t understand. He isnt’ a Senator.
ABC still getting it wrong
I realise it would be more efficient to only comment when they get it right, but I noticed Antony Green a little earlier on the Blog.
Error 12763875
When will theABC Election coverage graph show LNP at 72 not 73 – how can a WA National who stood against the LNO candidate be counted, especially when he has confirmed he will sit on the crossbench. Pit him in the independents.
Error 12763876
Can Antony please instruct all ABC journalists to challenge any Opposition member who claims that they won the primary vote (not true as governing colition or even ALP.Green coalition won more than LNP, that they won the 2PP (clearly not true now) and that they won the most number of seats (see above).
Confession
i think he is talking problems not solutions
MartinB – the reason for Section 57 is the fixed terms of the Senate, giving a government the ability to break the fixed terms where it can prove a deadlock exists under the terms of Section 57. But before July 1 next year, how can you dissolve the newly elected Senators claiming a deadlock when those Senators have not had an opportunity to express an opinion on the legislation. It is implicit that the Seats of Senators can only be declared vacant if a deadlock with those Senators exists.
She should try working for a Friday or Saturday night in an Emergency Department. That would be a real eye-opener for her.
Same thing for any member in a very safe seat.
I think Wilson has had a few emu exports over lunch.
He’s due for a nap.
To have the government and opposition vote together in the House and separately in the Senate to create the formal requirements for a DD trigger would show clear evidence of collusion and abuse of process. I have little doubt that the GG would refuse a request on this basis, less doubt that the public would be appalled and no doubt whatsoever that this will not happen.
Denison is 78% counted now in terms of the TPP vote.
The ALP has 65.87% of the vote.
You will see that in my prediction of early last week I suggested that it will be 66%
in the end in Denison.
http://dr–good.blogspot.com/2010/09/latest-tpp-counting.html
Henry@1427
Now paying out on Crook
Henry
What is Wilson saying?
Wow, Wilson is very, very bitter.
Current election: 72 all
ALP lost 11 seats Coalition picked up 8 seats
1998 election:
Coalition lost 15 seats, ALP picked up 18 seats.
Somehow, I don’t think Abbott can be considered a hero.
Wilson on Crook “he is a nobody!”.
The bitterness is amazing.
Thanks Itep – cool!
He does have a point about Crook’s hypocracy on no mining tax, but yes to more royalties at fed level.
Well it’s just my opinion, and I’m a sub-expert
but I suspect that the High Court would pay more weight to the formal requirements rather than the intention.
But as I said, I would expect that a GG would hold off on such a request for precisely the reason you give.
A Bill that reuires expenditure cannot even be considered y the house with a message from the GG recommending an appropriation for that purpose. she makes that recomendatio on the advice of te govenrment, So no money bill can even get debated without the goernment allowing it.
Iron Bar massive dummy spit.
Scringler he is just rambling all over the place.
Taking potshots at everything – tv campaigns, the non entities in the senate and so on.
Saving the most bile for Crook though. The hatred is palpable.
Unbelievable.
Henry
why so angry with Crook? Because he won?
Martin B, whilst not entirely analagous I think one of the constitution alteration bills that Whitlam put up for referendum in 1974 (all of which were passed by the House of Representatives only and rejected by the Senate twice) was rejected in a manufactured way in the Senate (Government voting against it). The GG chose to allow a referendum to go ahead but its legality wasn’t able to be found because it failed at the referendum.
It’s certainly not clear cut that the GG would reject an obviously manufactured DD trigger.
does this mean Crook will definitely not sit with the coalition?
Now he’s attacking the indies.
Now the Indies are getting the bar to the head.
Basically victoria yes. Apparently Wilson is the only member for OConnor ever and therefore Crook or anybody for that matter has the right to take it off him.
Henry
I think Tuckey better go home. Take a bex and have a lie down.
Rage rage against the dying of the light!!
Diogenes is obviously a man of refinement. The Simpsons will, in time, be regarded as one of the great artistic works of the last century. You can hold me to account for that.
Wilson is basically saying this
Just Denison.
Perhaos Wilson hadn;t yet qualified for the full parliamentary pension.
He might even start a blog!
Get him on PB!!
I reckon he’ll run in o’connor next election.
Henry@1453
He’s already posting as TTH
what did he say about the indies?
Has he mentioned how he helped to knife several Liberal leaders?
victoria:
lights never on in their offices after 5pm, always vote with Labor, why do they want a ‘pair’ system for Speaker etc.
Section 57 does not make reference to the term of the Senate. Only the term of the Lower house. If the trigger is created within the term – less six months in April 28, 2013) then the trigger is cocked and ready for use. Yes of course the GG may decided not to consent to a dd. But in all honesty a dd dissolution is the best option for the next federal election. The DD trigger should be put in place asap. If need be the government should act and call an dd election if and when required.
Surely imaXXXXXandivote, you heard/ viewed/ read this at the time; or, since you;ve joined PB, the (probably) 100s of our comments about it!
Wilkie applied a political version of “due diligence”; as did Katter, Oakshott & Windsor before signing a contract to support either Abbott or Gillard. In this case, his criteria came from Howard’s Charter of Budget Honesty. Wilkie announced support for Gillard on 2 September, the afternoon after Windsor revealed Abbott’s $7-11 Billion “Black Hole” in his costings on lateline (1 August)
[Due diligence" is a term used for a number of concepts involving either an investigation of a business or person prior to signing a contract, or an act with a certain standard of care.] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence
As several MSM journos wrote/ said, Wilkie, a top brain & whistleblower, with a reputation for integrity (& a score to settle with Liberals) devised a political version of the honey/sucker trap: testing Abbott’s honesty – and ability to work within the framework of Howard’s Charter of Budget Honesty. Abbott failed.
According to Wilkie himself (from what I recall):
1. $1Billion offered
* Was “new Money; ie not part of election costings; no indication whence (considering the $7-11 billion “black hole) the money would come, or what programmes would be cut to fund it (not in accordance with Charter)
* with no initial assessment of the hospital’s cost/ need, and was almost double what the hospital would cost
* was offered without any “due process” (again, not in accordance with Charter)
2. $340,000 offered
* As hospital had not yet submitted all required documentation, it would be helped complete that
* Plans, costings etc would go through due process (with required documentation); but would be fast-tracked, with undertaken given to manage it with state government
* Assessment would occur & funding allocated during the next round; some provision was already made (I guess presuming RHH & TasGov got their act together)
* Extra funding would come from savings in other areas
This offer stayed met Charter of Budget Honesty & “due process” criteria.
$1 billion, no “due process”, no costings: not within the Charter – pork.
$340,000, with costing, due process & on needs basis: within Charter – not pork
confessions.
He is obviously embolding the indies to stick with Labor with this rhetoric.
its time for Wilson Tuckey to move to Texas or Arizona where his pre-historic views MAY be accepted in society. Tuckey losing his seat was the best thing that happened in the election
The term of the Senate plays no role in Section 57.
Tuckey asks the media not to forget him. What, the two-second news cycle? Never!
Abbott and all future Liberal leaders will be breathing a sigh of relief that they don’t need to deal with Mr Tuckey any longer.
Now the media cops a serve.
Regrets he’s had a few…
Perhaps not, but I suspect that current and future GGs will not rely to heavily upon precedents created by the 18th.
I can’t see it. Is Uncle Tuckey giving us a rambling Richard Nixon type farewell (My mother was a saint … don’t hate your enemies … blub, blub, blub)
He looks like he’s wavering on the verge of tears.
Probably been mentioned, but more rubbish from the media here:
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/leaders-face-drama-of-rewarding-their-political-victims-20100909-1523f.html
and
Why the quote marks? This implies that Abbot only “lost” in some unverified and doubtful way, and that Gillard only “won” in the same way. Bloody ridiculous. Abbott lost the election. Lost. Not “lost”.
Can someone tell me, as pithily as possible, exactly why Tuckey lost? I thought his electorate was as ante-diluvian as him.
Any questions?
Theres no one there Wilson!
Rosa- the transcript.
Tuckey says he is unlikely to contest next election.
blue-green
so you think he makes more sense that Katter?
Whoops that DD was granted by Hasluck…
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/environment-minister-frank-sartor-has-denied-rumours-he-is-set-to-resign/story-e6freuy9-1225916443342
It wasn’t a DD Martin, it was a referendum.
There are emergencies for plastic surgeons?
Victoria
Tuckey is way smarter than Katter.
He was able to wreak havoc within a parliamentary party for decades.
it takes brains to do that. Doesn’t stop him rambling though.
He says Crook won on fraudulent advertising.
D@W do you know what the word implication means?
House of Representaives Practice
The requirement of section 56 of the Constitution for appropriations to be recommended by a message of the Governor-General is supplemented and given effect to by standing order 180:
(a) All proposals for the appropriation of revenue or moneys require a message to the House from the Governor-General recommending the purpose of the appropriation in accordance with section 56 of the Constitution.
(b) For an Appropriation or Supply Bill, the message must be announced before the bill is introduced.
(c) For other bills appropriating revenue or moneys, a Minister may introduce the bill and the bill may be proceeded with before the message is announced and standing order 147 (message recommending appropriation) applies.
(d) A further message must be received before any amendment can be moved which would increase, or extend the objects and purposes or alter the destination of, a recommended appropriation.
As the Governor-General acts on ministerial advice, it is not possible for a private Member to obtain the Governor-General’s recommendation for an appropriation.
Mercifully ABC 24 pulls the plug.
In his second hour he will recite Shakespeare…
Journo: are you going to congratulate Mr Crook
Tuckey: “I don’t intend to be gracious”
LOL
blue-green
Yes, I was referring to his ramblings by comparison to Katter. Even if Tuckey is rambling, he probably still makes a great deal more sense than the Hat man.
Tuckey thinks Crook won on fraudulent advertising. His party of Fibs nearly did the same thing.
You could not dissolve half the Senate under Section 57 claiming a deadlock if that half of the Senate has never had the option of voting on the legislation. Any Senator in that half of the Senate would be able to seek immediate injunction from the High Court preventing the Governor-General from dissolving their seat. You have to read Section 57 in conjunction with Section 7 and 13 on the terms of the Senate.
Victoria
Without Tuckey it is likely that we wouldnt have had Abbott.
Rosa: here’s the article from the local paper on the Crook win:
http://albany.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/mpelect-digs-in/1924409.aspx
Patrick
Iron-man “pecs” Abbott lost to the Ginja Ninja, a woman without even a husband to keep her in line. For some it is “loss” too far.
blue-green
Are you referring to leadership spill with Turnbull?
It would seem the political landscape looks a tad barren for Mr Tuckey.
Section 53.
Antony Green,
When will you be publishing the next election calculator?
No rush
Although I am interested in getting a feel for the likely election battlegrounds.
And here’s another one
http://albany.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/tuckey-holds-on/1924412.aspx
Oh dear. Too bad. Never mind.
OK RTFC now.
Eh? that makes no sense. There’s no incentive for a governemnt to manufacture such a result.
blue_green is a background noise agitating for a new election soon.
What does not involve money?
Yes. It was Tuckey’s open rebellion with TUrnbull over the ETS that precipitated the rapid spill.
A more ordered leadership challenge (not over policy) but over bad polling would have seen Hockey installed.
Blue-green
I would say to Tuckey. Meet Karma!
And why arren’t the WA Media calling for Gryll’s Head ?
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7911038/grylls-palmer-documents-kept-secret/
If newslimited and the Liberal Party can’t get that happening, then surely I can.
your reading much more into Section 57 then exists. There is no option to dissolve half the Senate under section 57. The senate is a single body it is not two separate Senates. if the double trigger is created in the Senate then it remains on the oaks and can be used without or without consideration by the new Senate. Its a case of loading the gun just in case it needs to be fired.
Stupid
How did we get onto DD triggers? We haven’t even had a Parliamentary sitting.
More people voted for the other candidate
Where is the AEC conspiracy theory: removal of 8 seats, LNP ahead, MSM blanket coverage. Decision for Gillard, seats start to be added: ALP ahead again
Tuckey also said something about the Greens and claims about his age. Anybody could guess that this election campaign would be ripe for his opponents to use that against him, in particular to raise the question of whether he’d see out the term. No point whingeing about it now though.
The Senate has no “Sessions” as such under the constitution. it is a body that exists. it is not prorogued as the lower house is. It remains in existence in succession. EXCEPT when there is a double dissolution. the fact that half the Senate (Some old and some new) take office does not constitute a new Senate. yes the balance of power my change but that is all.
1. The Nationals got ahead of Labor, which they didn’t do in 2007 (although they would have fallen short even if they had). This needs to be understood in the context of the Nationals resurgence in WA generally (see state politics).
2. The redistribution added the Goldfields to his electorate, which has never been his turf. I said on the day the redistribution proposal was unveiled that Tuckey would be unhappy, but strangely he wasn’t. Clearly he should have been.
3. A feeling no doubt that at 75 he should have bowed out gracefully.
4. I like to think he offended people with his attempt to link the Congo plane crash to the mining tax.
CONFESSIONS – Re Crook – Thanks. A strong independent and labor preferences: a sitting Nat’s (or in this case, lib’s) nightmare.
WILLIAM – Thank you – much appreciated. I wondered if the Congo crash was a factor.
ALP now 20,000 ahead in 2PP!
Great result for Labor and, even though a large number of Australians are not yet aware, for the country.
Julia totally outplayed Abbott and the MSM over the last two weeks and I believe she will continue to play the right game.
As I have commented in earlier posts I believe labor in this term needs to get their message out more effectively than under Kevin and I believe “information packages” on policy issues across all the MSM is the best way to go.
Saying that I do believe that we should wait and see how Julia plays the MSM in the next few weeks up until Parliament resumes. I hope she continues the cool calm approach that has been in evidence and let the MSM and the libs/nats huff and puff until they are hoarse. The story will play out in its own course. Swearing in of the new ministers, including perhaps Rob O, the build up to the first sitting, the constant noise raised by Abbott and co sweapt aside by Julia saying she is not paying attention and is concerned with running the country,the no confidence motion by Abbott defeated 75-71 ( Crook and Katter abstain, the pairing off of speaker and one coalition) destroying the line of fragile one seat majority.
I think we must keep in mind the everyday punter out there has the attention span of a knat when it comes to politics so once they see how this plays out and realise that the country will not revert to chaos they will say “what”s the drama?” and move on.
Julia and labor can then begin to govern and deliver policy and push their agenda directly out to the public every day in every way.
Thats my theory anyway!
I should also add that the Nationals have made tremendous inroads in the Goldfields in particular, where they traditionally haven’t had a presence. At state level, former Labor MP John Bowler won Kalgoorlie at the 2008 election as an independent and has since become a de facto National – he is enormously popular in the region and campaigned for Crook.
I assume there will be a Morgan Poll tommorow.
Anyone?
Most pieces of legislation. The two houses also disagree about the exact meaning of s 53 and it’s non-justiciable so this will never be resolved.
Well on September 28 the new term of office of the lower house commences it’s first session. It has the right to stay in power until September 28, 2013 unless an early election is called. The odds are that the next election will be a double dissolution. Both the ALP and the Liberal party would be better positioned in a double dissolution then at a half Senate election or a mid term election. In order to meet the Constitutional requirements of a Double Dissolution section 57 must come into play. Its a question of tactics which differ depending on if the trigger is created now of after July 1 when there is a change in the balance of power in the Senate. It pays to consider the options well in advance so when it comes it will not be a surprise. Its coming.
My electorate, Moreton in Qld is now winning the most marginal seat contest by about 100 votes.
Sorry, I meant in Qld.
WA Paul Murray on the Warpath with the Two Amigos:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/opinion/post/-/blog/paulmurray/post/2376/comment/1
For Wilson Tuckey:
Don’t let the door bang on your arse on your way out.
Didnt Clive Palmer also bankroll the WA Nationals (TV advertising)?
The next Federal election called before April 28, 2013 will be a double dissolution.
I am at a loss.
The AEC Vitual Tally Room for Denison has :
TCP : ALP 31,642.
TPP : ALP 35,199.
How can this come about?
I think that’s a pretty safe asssumption, blue_green.
William Bowe@1517
You forgot to add Vince Catania (Spit) into the mix.
dwt
It looks to me like you are at two losses.
Deewhytony, 31,642 is the Labor-versus-Wilkie score. 37,946 is the Labor-versus-Liberal score.
comment 1524
For Wilson Tuckey:
And now I’m standing on the corner all the world’s gone home
Nobody’s changed, nobody’s been saved
And I’m feeling cold and alone
I guess I’m lucky, I smile a lot
But sometimes I wish for more than I’ve got
What about me, it isn’t fair
I’ve had enough now I want my share….
Don’t let the door bang on your arse on your way out.
Here Here im in total agreeance, good riddence Tuckey bugger off.
Sorry could be March 28, 2013. Six months before September 28.
deewhytony
TCP compares ALP to the independent – essentially put all ballot papers into two piles depending on which of these two gets the hiher preference
TPP – dittor but compares ALP to LNP candidate
Yes, that too, Laocoon. The WA Nationals’ ads on regional TV have been brilliantly effective, at both state and federal level.
eek bad tags
You are the only person in Australia who thinks that either of these statements is true, let alone both of them.
Iron Bar Tuckey. Good riddance. He was a total embarrassment for all concerned. He will not be missed.
The tories have got rid of two dead weights in McGauran and Tuckey. This should simultaneiously lower the average age and the increase the average IQ of Abbott’s mob. Are there anny other luminaries in the out tray?
I was sms polled this morning.
Example = Ballot paper that is 1 LNP 2 ALP 3 IND is in the ALP pile in the TCP and not in the ALP pile in the TPP
Jason Wood?
Ummm yes. Massive facial trauma, chopped off limb, necrotising fasciitis (flesh-eating virus), severe burns, gunshot injuries, explosions etc etc.
I NEVER get polled
He offended me.
I worked in Kalgoorlie for a couple of years, I think Barry Hasse was the member.Graham Campbell’s big brother came in and shot the breeze. Bit of an insight into Politics, W.A style.
LOL… let me assure you both parties are of the major parties are of the view that they would be better off with a Double Dissolution. The numbers are clear. Only Green supporters are the ones playing down such an option.
Bronnie and Ruddock should go too. And I’m sure there are some ageing never-before-seen Lib Senators hiding away int he Senate.
D@W, you’re aware this would have the effect of backdating Senate terms to 1 July 2012 right? And that this would require the next Government to hold either a half Senate election or a shortened next term?
Bronnie and Ruddock will leave Parliament in a Hearse – what else do the have to live for.
Jason Wood. So, the tories will be younger, smarter but they will have fewer orgasms:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2008/06/03/1212258766824.html
blackdog 1521
Is that the final count? If not does that mean the ALP could lose it?
Hmm – A taste of things to come:
Some background info:
The ALP has five senate seats in Victoria if it goes to a half Senate election it will have four. If it opts for a Double Dissolution it will retain have a better chance of retaining 5.
The same applied to other states and also with the Liberal Party. The Greens are not in coalition with the ALP. You will see a swing back towards the main parties in the next election as Australia ties of a hung parliament and a minority government. The last thing Australia will want is to leave the balance of power into the hands of the Greens. God help us if that was the case.
Roy Morgan has posted a somewhat rambling and somewhat insightful (Tuckeyesque?) artcicle ont he various perceived needs and wants of the various Indy electorates.
Here is may favorite part. It is actually quite wise.
http://www.roymorgan.com.au/ (Scroll down to the pdf)
32 pages already!!!!!!! I cannot keep up. The housework has gone to the dogs since I joined crikey!
Er, okay then. But I do have one up on you: necrotizing fasciitis is bacterial.
PTMD
You are lucky being able to leave your housework to the dogs. Our Jackie’s sole contribution to housework is to shed hairs and to sleep.
The ALP is now ahead in the 142 normal seats as well as in Denison
in the two-party preferred count.
Total counted so far for the 142 normal seats:11736472
Total ALP so far:5869656
Total ALP so far:50.01%
Total LNP so far:5866816
Total LNP so far:49.99%
That’s a margin of 2,840. (I expect the final result to be similar)
Then Denision adds another 18,383 (and rising) to the ALP margin.
(I expect a margin of about 21,000 in the end)
I expect that the other seven missing seats will also
increase the ALP margin by about 10,400 votes.
So ALP to win in the end
by about 33,000 votes, i.e. 50.15%-49.85%
Johnny Button
No, they have allocated 81,059 votes and it says 92733.enrolled. It is still a margin of about 1,800 votes in front, but is closer than Brisbane roughly 1900 behind.
What are you two talking about. Surely Julia PM is not getting the blame for all that too?
Question
Who is longest serving ALP MP not to be given a ministry?
I bet Anna Burke
Feeney coming up on ABC24
triton
Umm, I’m aware of that but I thought that someone who didn’t know what emergencies plastic surgeons dealt with would need the laymans terminology.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ministry-bid-sacrificed-to-help-julia-gillard-bob-brown/story-fn59niix-1225916125465
I will leave others to idly speculate about BB’s character and lack of insistence on a Greens appointment to a ministry
Mine are currently flattening the wrinkles in the sheets on my bed.
I’m sure its been pointed out before, but one shouldn’t get too excited by the increase in the 2PP for ALP that is occuring at present. It is only occurring because Denison is the first of the missing 8 seats where the 2PP is being counted. When they start to count New England, for example, the 2PP for the ALP will decline. There are still almost 10,000 of the votes in Denison to have the 2PP distribution done to them, so for a while the 2PP will continue to increase. Once all 8 seats have their 2PP finished, the ALP will definitely be ahead on the 2PP, but it may only be 10 to 30,000 ahead in total.
Good. I’ll get to see what he looks like.
Frank
Perhaps he doesn’t want to be a faceless man anymore?
And watch out for Psephos in the background.
Blackdog 1559
Thanks for the update. I nearly got a fright as I misunderstood your post. I live in Moreton too.
Cheers
Diogenes@1568
Nah Studio discussion with the Libs Jamie Briggs.
Peg
BB is doing a lot of straight talking at the mo
Wow, The Australian certainly didn’t hold back in it’s Editorial today
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/needed-a-policy-for-julia-direction-for-labor/story-e6frg71x-1225916087426
I think Possums on to something with his unhinging theory
Johnny Button
Sorry about that. Just excited that never having lived in a marginal seat, will finally have Julia visit many times I hope.
DIOG – Feeney is going to show off his new “warlord” tats.
LOL. Another who doesn’t respect the electorate’s verdict.
Unbelievable.
confessions
Obviously the Australian not happy with Bob Brown calling them out.
its clear they dont like the electorate
If you look at the Greens vote combined with the microleft vote (mainly the Sex Party) then on 2010 figures the Greens would clearly get 2 Senators in every state except maybe NSW, but against that would probably get 3 in Tasmania.
Feel free to base forecasts on your own personal prejudices, but it’s not borne out by the recent election.
MADCYRIL : You mean, the Oz didn’t deny it was trying to “wreck” the alliance, as distinct from just report the news?
God, they’re pissed off at the Oz, aren’t they: relevance deprivation syndrome. Hurts most when you’re a megalomaniac.
victoria: how dare Brown call out the blatant agenda pushing of the Oz!
Professor Dennis Altman on 774 basically putting to rest the “illegitimate” government BS.
The reason is the Greens have no-one who could fulfill the tasks of being a Minister.
confessions
We can safely assume that none of us here are paranoid about the media bias. The Australian has removed any doubts.
Bob is a smart boy. He should up the ante with the Oz, because he’s got nothing to lose and the Oz has to lose what little credibility it’s got left. Drag out its agenda and expose it to the sunlight so nobody (including its readers) can be in any doubt.
Give Bob Brown a hug – let’s hope he keeps us the commentary on the OO.
rosa
I suspect that Brown has a strategy in place. Even if there were doubts about the Oz’s bias. It is now confirmed.
victoria: Bob Brown has also had a go at the ABC as well and has written to them accordingly.
I hope he makes the ABC’s reply to him public. I’m assuming he’ll get one.
confessions.
Well I hope so. We should not be surprised with Murdoch, but for the ABC, a taxpayer funded service. It should just report the facts. It has been the biggest disappointment to not be able to trust it anymore. Let’s hope some sense is restored.
Exactly. Labor can’t call the Oz and ABC out on what they’ve been doing. BB picking a fight with the Oz might take the heat off Julia for a while.
No they don’t. The quota for a full senate election(0.76923) is not half at a half Senate (0.142857) election. The Greens #2 become the wasted quota or do not survive the count. The Green vote will drop in the next election reducing their chances even more. Its a question of odds a chance to win 5 or 4 which one would you opt for if your a major player..
The Australian needs to let it be. No point going tragic.
The media has gone feral against Labor/Greens/Indies with the assistance of the Fiberals. Brown has taken it on, but obviously with the backing of others. There needs to be some sense restored.
I love the way the editor uses the term “we” as if it means anything other than a few molly-coddled right wing hacks at the OO.
Gee, I wonder what that means? Perhaps it means that if there was a price on carbon, there would be more jobs in renewable energy.
It was very pleasing to see the Indies, BB and Julia dumping on the OO.
I think it is the supreme irony that we now have the most left-wing government realistically possible and we have News Ltd partly to thank. They must be almost suicidal.
This is an assumption based upon nothing but your own bias.
Diogenes
Yes, it is ironic, but they are not going down without a fight. Why do you think Brown has gone down this path.
Which brings us back to Mr Denmore’s thesis that the Australian is no longer of the business of reporting news but is trying to create it, because that’s the only way to hold together its dwindling readership.
rosa
the media is very important for the cause of democracy, but it should not undermine it though, and that is what has been happening of late.
” The quota for a full senate election(0.76923) is not half at a half Senate (0.142857) election.”
I understand that
“The Greens #2 become the wasted quota or do not survive the count.”
Not once Sex Party and other microleft votes flow through to the greens (which they will).
Green + Sex Party provisional quotas as calculated for a DD on 2010 figures:
NSW 1.59 Vic 2.18 Qld 1.99 WA 2.10 SA 1.95 Tas 2.63
Sometimes I really wonder when people question whether or not the MSM is biased!
It’s like people back in the 60′s continually questioning whether the wrestling was real or rigged!
Of course the wrestling was rigged, and of course the MSM is biased in favour of the Libs.
Whenever you question whether the MSM is biased (like some here on PB) remember, you are more STUPID than those back in the 60′s.
vic
How many votes could BB lose by hammering the OO? It’s all win for the Greens. Someone has to call them out, or put them down like a rabid dog.
Haven’t checked the Senators, confessions, but the oldest members of the House of Reps now are:
Surname/Seat/month&year of birth,
Coalition
Schulz, Hume, 5/39
Neville, Hinkler,3/40
Bishop, McKellar, 10/42
Ruddock, Berowra, 3/43
Scott, Maranoa, 10/43
Moylan, Pierce, 2/44
Gash, Gilmore,7/44
Washer,Moore, 8/45
Solmlyay, Fairfax, 1/46
Truss, Wide Bay, 10/48
Forrest, Mallee, 8/49
Cobb, Calare, 2/50
Independent
Katter, Kennedy, 5/45
Labor
Crean, Hotham, 2/49
Gibbons, Bendigo, 9/49
Hall, Shortland, 11/49
Snowdon, Lingiari, 3/50
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/needed-a-policy-for-julia-direction-for-labor/story-e6frg71x-1225916087426
Don’t you just love this! I wonder why the OO editorials didn’t point out to the Howard Govt that ‘making the mining boom pay’ was very important. Why did we have so little infrastructure and money left in surplus in 2007.
Murdoch’s henchmen seem to be a little desperate at the moment and are providing a few good laughs for us.
1511: The Parliament (Senate and House) usually is prorogued not long before the House is dissolved before an election.
Hilarious stuff! Perhaps if the Oz spent less time pandering to climate denialists, they might know what that means.
I have had people call me paranoid for days. Thank you I’m not alone!
Senators aged 60 and above:
Coalition
Boswell, the Hon Ronald Leslie Doyle (69)
Eggleston, Alan (68)
Heffernan, the Hon William (Bill) Daniel (67)
Adams, Judith Anne (67)
Macdonald, the Hon Ian Douglas (64)
Coonan, the Hon Helen Lloyd (62)
Back, Dr Christopher John (60)
Australian Greens
Brown, Robert (Bob) James (65)
Australian Labor Party
Hogg, the Hon John Joseph (61)
We need an ABC whistleblower. Staff memos, emails, good gear like that. Surely there’s someone in there with a conscience …
David Feeney looks completely different to how I’d imagined. I pictured and ageing lothatio type, but he doesn’t look at all like that!
confessions
what did Feeney have to say?
James is right. In fact up until a point, the Parliament used to be prorogued several times a parliament, so you’d have multiple sessions. Nowadays we almost always just have the 1 session but there have been occasions where the Government has considered proroguing during a Parliament.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/needed-a-policy-for-julia-direction-for-labor/story-e6frg71x-1225916087426
If the head of the ABC had a real desire to strive for independence and even handedness in its presentation of news and current affairs he would distance the organisation from the OO and its gaggle of journalists after this outburst.
Rod: The coalition have a lot of fodder to work with in order to renew!
Speaking of old MP’s that should be replaced, there are many more on the Libs side than Labor, but some oldies do provide valuable experience. I’m glad Crean is still in parliament for one.
I doubt it; currently a conscience and an analytic mind are two traits guaranteed NOT to land you a job at the ABC
Look! I have a face!
Itep
Lol!
Bob shells it out to the OO:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ministry-bid-sacrificed-to-help-julia-gillard-bob-brown/story-fn59niix-1225916125465
According to one or two regulars on this blog, there’s not a problem. It’s us who’ve got the problem.
What about that Wyat Roy? If I ever had any inclination to stand for parliament, I think I would be jealous.
This guy is 20, and, he WILL be PM by the time he is 40. I’m cheesed he is on the tory side of politics. I think Labor better start planning now for when he runs the country.
GP, that could have been you
victoria: He’s on with Sen Birmingham. He actually did say he has a face, and took the jokes in his stride.
He’s quite articulate and very personable. Not at all like Arbib, who seems shifty and untrustworthy. Gave an account of the Caucus meeting, and emphasised the PM saying no more playing to the 6pm news cycle. Interestingly Birmingham said the same for the coalition, Tone wants them to be passionate and real.
Nothing more needs to be said,
Confessions
Thanks for the summary.
Isn’t supreme irony wonderful, an election fought over right wing trivia, a left outcome.
There aren’t lifetime pension for parliamentarians anymore right?
What we need to do is keep Wyatt in parliament long enough that he’s not “young” anymore, and by the time he’s voted out he’ll be middle aged and no experience in anything else and completely unemployable!
Pure gold. Ain’t karma a bitch.
Centre
Many a slip between cup and lip.
But is it any consolation for a boring life?
My latest missive to the ABC
No guys, you are wRONg!
This kid is the real deal. Will be PM by the time he is 40. So we had better conquer the MSM by then or we are rat sh!t.
I would love to see the gold card done away with and all the free flights for ex pm.s
no matter what party, hope some one introduces a private members bill, now i wonder who would, that would be very interesting.
Boring life?
Dragon, he’s taken to politics like a duck to water! He must love it!
Looking at the combined Rep and Senate figures, itep, it looks like the “out of touch with the needs of today” line could be quite productive for Labor!
I’ve always thought that sticking Bronwyn Bishop’s picture on the hoardings would scare anyone under the age of 50 away from voting Liberal, but maybe a photo-collage of the 11 Coalition members over 65 would be even more impressive!
With 17% of their HofR reps and 20% of their Senators over 60 it wouldn’t be hard to convince many voters that they are getting rather long in the tooth.
Completely ageist, of course, but heh, I’m pushing 60 myself!
Annabel Crabb has a fairly long piece about the ‘new paradigm’ The overall argument is that there is a vicious cycle between journalists and politicians where they use each other for their benefit.
The full article is here.
Better find a safer seat then. He could just be an ex-MP by the time he’s 30.
Watching Greg Hunt on Agenda carrying on with the line that the Libs have the belief in their ability to make Australia the best place on Earth.
He has religion.
Like Jimmy Swaggart.
O’Connor starting to report TPPs.
ALP will take a hit.
Seems like the ABC is outdoing even the OZ in supporting the Libs. This look like they are doing their PR work.http://bit.ly/ceQo2w
RE Feeney.
Don’t judge a book, etc. My OH has experience.
“He is a nasty piece of work … self-centred.”
Suffice to say: Treat with extreme care.
The margin is now out to over 23000 on the 2PP.
Puff, the Magic Dragon.@1560
They’re the expected injuries to Arbib and Bitar and their mates when Faulkner and Tanner get hold of them with a posse of party protectionists.
Confessions, just catching up,
What did Bob say about the ABC, and is there a link please?
Will someone teach Wyatt Roy to tie a decent tie knot.
was it abetz
The assumption that the greens will retain or increase their support is based upon nothing but your own bias.
Try counting the 2010 Senate vote based on a full senate election. The results will surprise you. Again the ALP and the LNP would have better odds of winning 5 seats at a full then winning 3 at a half senate election. It is the odds that come into play when deciding to opt for a Full Senate election or a half Senate Election. A Full Senate is a possible win/retain the other is a go backwards..
Centre:
You could very well be right about The Kid, he has all the hallmarks.
It will be interesting though whether society will go more progressive or conservative as climate change affects (effects?) start to bite. Under threat human groups tend to go conservative (eg the Bush years’ War on Everything, and the fundamentalist religions-of-all-sorts’ ‘we must defend the Great Pumpkin’) but we tend to look to the progressive to fix up messes.
So it could be that the kid may turn into the right person at the wrong time.
I understand Greens Senator Scott ludlam is the one who is following up on all things abc.
rua thet’s the trend these days
you could have a betz on that
Re greens and the ABC
This was Bob brown’s office’s reply to my email of congats and complaint
I did, and put up numbers to back my point. If you disagree, put up your own numbers: what do you say Greens + Sex Party numbers look like at a DD on 2010 figures?
The Greens would not go backwards at a DD and would likely go forwards.
Moreover the Libs would belled seats to micro-right parties in several states, not just one.
Your supposition is wrong.
The kid might also walk under a bus or be caught in a compromising situation or receive an opportunity outside of politics that’s too good to refuse.
A decade too early to be talking about leadership material.
What happened between 1975-82 and 1996-2007. I thought we became a bit smallminded and selfish. Gimme, gimme, gimme!
AEC somewhat controversially (but I think correctly) have decided to count the seat O’Connor
on a two-party (ALP vs Coalition) preferred basis as a competition between
the ALP and Crook. This is rather than ALP vs Tuckey.
I think this is correct as the AEC does not officially recognize that there is a
Coalition (which is just as well as there is not one now).
It has always just done the TPP counts as the ALP versus the
best performing Liberal, LNP, National, or CLP candidate. When there are more
than one of the latter, they choose the one who ends up with the highest
number of votes after all but the last two candidates are eliminated.
belled = bleed
when does one have to pay to read news limited on line, its very soon isnt it
Labor might want to do a JR on Dallas and set him up with a couple of sheillas to use against him for when he becomes PM.
They had better wait ’til he’s married of course.
did some one actually say that that 20 yr old will be pm
Surely he’s gay
More corroboration for the view that caucus knew nothing about a coup against Rudd, and expressed no sentiment for a coup against Rudd before the deed was done. It was all done by the faction bosses without reference to caucus. We know this anyway, because caucus would have leaked if there had been calls for Rudd to be knifed.
This of course is not the narrative the Arbibista wish to propagate. Their self-serving lie – which has been run here on PB too – has been that the faction bosses only acted against Rudd because of the incredible pressure they were under from a near rebellious caucus.
Just how gullible do they think people are? (Very gullible, if their election strategy is anything to go by.)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/gillard-calls-on-labor-to-stop-the-leaks-20100909-152gy.html
I hope that Julia told the labor caucus (particularly the blokes) to stay off the porno sites and, if they’re caught, tough it out.
Just saw shots of the coalition post election gathering. Nice to see them celebrating an election defeat and applauding a loser. .
Wonder how long it will take before reality sets in.
I’m sorry to disagree with you about Wyatt Roy. I think he is a smartxxxx. I was listening the their ABC when the public forum was on the Thursday before the election. All he did was repeat the exact same slogans as TA. ALP John Longman was only telling the man who lied about his child the truth, that he shouldn’t have waited two years to take his child to see a specialist. Apparently after this incident, Wyatt Roy made the most of it. I know it is politics, but he was morally wrong to use this against John Longman.
I’m more than willing to set up a factchecking blog to rebut MSM and Liberal lies. We could write for an hour a day each on a misleading headline/statement/….explaining what was wrong in their messaging and reporting. People really appreciate it because the information they get now from the media confuses them with its emotional rhetorics. I do this at school with my grade by talking and updates and there’s also a higher level of interest now they can partially explain how politics works.
Crikey and the prominant left of centre political blogs could provide links to it and Labor and other parties to the left could direct people there (using apparatchiks and online media). Psesphos? PB? what do you think of it?
rosa yeah,
Only Fred Nile is allowed to check out the porn sites.
I understand that Wyatt Roy did about 6 per cent worse than the rest of the coalition in Qld (which suggests his age was a factor). correct?
rosa@1660
I’m sure they only look at the sites for the articles.
Todays’ Murdoch watch- saw the front of the Rotten Australian Rag and guess what not one article on the front providing anything positive for Labor.
This paper should be called the Tory News. Felt like burning it in the shop today, they lost the election and now it is pay back time, with lies and more lies.
not explain, understand. but some can do that too now.
There is no way any of us can gaze into a crystal ball and accurately assess what will happen inside the life of the new Parliament, John Edward and his ouija board contacts on ‘the other side’ notwithstanding, but we can start to make some semi-informed predictions, even 2 days into the newly minted, 2nd term ALP Government.
We can say with some degree of assurance that:
(1) The Coalition will be unrelenting in pursuing their already ritualistic chanting of the ‘illegitimacy’ mantra, regardless of the known facts.
(2) The News Ltd organisation will be in lock step with the Coalition in their unflinching support for all things Abbott, and their opposition to any and all ALP/Green/Independent policy initiatives as either (a) wasteful, (b) incompetent (c) porkbarrel.
(3) The ABC will continue to diminish, shrinking down to an ever more faint and feeble echo of ‘The Australian’ newspaper as more and more News Ltd hacks swarm the corridors of the national broadcaster, and dilute the already preciously small reserves of independence that remain.
Lock in these 3 pillars of political wisdom as immutable over the next 3 years.
Now, the question is – what will actually happen during this Parliament, even given these known obstacles for the ALP?
If the Coalition, their pale shadows in the ABC and their pack of gibbering cheerleaders in the News Ltd media are to be believed, we are headed for inaction, incoherence, instability and insurrection in that order, with an early election, or a switch to a Coalition minority Government, occuring within 12 to 18 months.
Why do we need to accept these dire paradigms, framed by those with a vested interest in the predicted outcome? Why is this right wing journalist’s worldview any more valid than, say, those predicting a move forward into broad, sunlit uplands of political co-operation? Why accept the naysaying of the nattering nabobs of negativism?
I am going out on a limb now, and predicting that we are on the verge of an exciting and progressive full 3 year Parliament, with major initiatives on Health, Education, Climate Change and infrastructure (including the NBN rollout) to be successfully commenced, or completed, and the Independents and Greens to perform a constructive and stabilising effect on policy outcomes. The facts are all there before us in terms of the proposed legislative programme, either explicitly stated already by the ALP in the election campaign, or implicit in the words of the Greens and the Independents as to what policies are important to them.
Why would we not take these people at their word as pledged at the election and since, and why would the Australian people not respond with their support, as reflected in the opinion polls to come? Why would anyone believe that, now that the heat of the election campaign has passed, the Coalition’s negative carping and constant doomsaying will have any effect? It did not have any effect, it must be remembered, until the ALP shelved the ETS only a bare 6 months ago, and started to decline in the polls.
Someone has to call it early, so I am prepared to have a go:
(1) The new Parliament will go full term.
(2) The Coalition will fade in the opinion polls as the Government starts to legislate a progressive agenda in conjunction with the Independents and the Greens.
(3) The negotiated terms of the new Parliament’s operation will be seen as a success over time, and will be unable to be reversed by any future Government without a backlash.
(4) the ALP will be returned to power in 3 years time with an absolute majority.
History is on the ALP’s side, as minority Governments in Australia, at least at the State level, have mostly gone on to win the subsequent elections by large margins.
I have heard him repeat slogans too, including the laughingly ironic one: “Tone is authentic”.
Rosa
Labor was ahead in that seat until the Thursday, I have described above happened. I think he was very lucky to get that seat.
Has anyone got good email address for the indies, bob brown and for anyone good to lobby for inquiry into the abc, please.
Wyatt Earp even looks like a smart arse.
SHY is one and a half times as old as Roy. Schulz is three and half times as old as Roy but is two and third times older than SHY.
Q. Going forward, which of the three will make the most valuable contribution to Australian political life?
Especially when the guy who made the claim has admitted he was talking crap, he had seen plenty of Docs re his kid, they all said he was OK. He just wanted something to be wrong so he and his wife could get higher centrelink payments.
Roy’s problem is that Longman will be an out Brisbane suburb soon.
So the reason that (correct me if I’m wrong) Maxine had the biggest swing against her in any NSW seat was because “Labors campaign sucked”.
Sorry, not buying it. Bennelong should be a safe Labor seat, but the problem for Labor in that seat was one thing and one thing only, called Maxine Mckew. They should have dumped her in preselection, but unfortunately the Labor Party were too busy patting themselves on the back about getting Howard to care about putting up a decent candidate.
THANKS BLACK DOG – will look.
And while your at Lobby them to do something about the monopoly a certain media entrepeneur has in certain states, get the Accc to do something about it.
CENTRE / JAUNDICED – Nope, Conroy’s gonna put filters on all their computers.
The OO did say in an editorial today that the new Govt needs to be;
Yes – just like WorstChoices right? I mean it was so motivational to the average worker being paid peanuts and being told to be greatful for it.
The Murdoch press, don’t ya just love ‘em? they think the world of work is just like their son of a milionaire boss says it is – a place where fairie roam in the botom of the garden. (Sarcasm button off)
Truthy
Not enough boats, that was McKew’s problem.
Puff
I got a reply to an email to this address in 24 hours
senator.bob.brown@aph.gov.au
Definitely Liberal leadership material then.
Ruawake
Exactly, and I have been waiting for an apology or some king of acknowledgement of these facts from the morning programme that organised that forum. Guess what? Nothing. Labor should try very hard to get that seat back.
BTW, after a bit of early fanfare we don’t seem to have heard much about the hordes moving from paper to i in order to read The Australian. Could it be that all round they are they having an Annus Horribilis?
Puff, the Magic Dragon.
Posted Thursday, September 9, 2010 at 5:21 pm
I wrote to Senator Brown via a formal letter.
Senator Bob Brown
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
Labor Govt’s “legitimacy” is already damaged
rite to govern legitimacy is determined simple , by which party has most MP’s suporting it
I think this is a simple poitn Julia should make to Journo’s , in asking THEM why THEY is peddling drivel ie. put journo’s on back feet from on on I suggest
But legitmasy to continue as a govt also goes to public perception of if a govt is “stable’ and potentially crisis riden Bob Brown has destroyed labor’s legitimacy in that area , and it will fester more and more in public’s mind against this Labor govt as Bob Brown starts suporting Lib Bills on floor of HoR
….cynical popularism treachery that MSN will play up day by day against labor…a meme of no ‘legitmacy’ , in polisy crisis , its non functoning , its an unstable Govt
Just watched Greg Hunt on Agenda. What a twit. Yes tell us about your green army Greg. Please.
Plus I’m sure he buys his suits from Myer for Kids.
I heard the Abc at lunchtime today state that the new member for Bennelong John Fitzgerald got a heroes reception at parliament house today.
I wonder if John Fitzgerald beat Alexander in a tie breaker.
Our Abc no idea about who the pollies are.
blackdog
Radio Courier Mail could noy give a stuff, they got their boy elected.
Hmm, I suppose we will not be hearing that the Standing Green Army Corps of 16,000 would never have had more than 4,000 men and women in uniform at any one time. Talk about inflation.
rosa@1677
That’s as far as he’ll get with it now – plus his own family home, I guess.
Seriously though, I wonder if he’ll try to settle for an optional filter now?
Bloody good on Bob Brown for calling out the Oz. Take em on Bob you have nothing to lose. In fact your fan base will love it. I’m sure the ALP have similar thoughts but are rightly wary about being so blatant as Brown.
No wonder we lost Bennelong
Maxime was playing singles, turns out JA was playing doubles
Roy was quite right to draw to the electorate the extraordinarily insensitive Bernie Banton moment of his ALP oppo during the election. The fact that the questioner was an agent provocateur is neither here nor there.
Based on the current results and the assumoption that the party Ticket applies the results of a double dissolution in Victoria is as follows.
Note the ALP wins five seats. If under a half Senate election the ALP wins two seats + two won this time, that is a net loss of one. Now where is the motive to not hold a double Dissolution?
And possibly the worst and laziest local candidate in living memory.
She certainly lived up to her nickname Maxine McWHO?! After the election they did some street polling and found people had seen hair nor hide of her for 3 years.
Once again I think Bennelong should be a safe Labor seat, it goes to show how a bad local candidate can affect the result no matter how much support you have for your party.
BTW I make the interesting point that the last time a sitting PM was defeated in their own seat was when they attempted to bring liberalisation of workers rights. Not a coincidence by any means imho.
I read somewhere once during the campaign Boerwar that it would take fifteen years for the coalitions green army to get up to the numbers that they bandied about.
15 years! Do you think there was serious analysis of this totally bogus policy? Course not!
Boerwar
Are you an agent provocateur
Mmmm. Looks like Truthy has switched ‘Maxine’ for ‘boats’. It is going to be a long three years.
Re: Sullivan losing Longman due to the questionable dad – here is the article that provides much more insight.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/dad-who-took-out-alp-mp-jon-sullivan-recants/story-e6frg6nf-1225913546804
VP
Provocation is sometimes a by-product but rarely the objective. My point was that it is a little bit silly to criticize Roy for doing what any red-blooded Labor candidate would have done in the same circumstances.
Hang on a moment Fiz that is the Australian Newspaper you sure they are telling the true? Or is it another propaganda story to help their mates the Tories.
VP
Besides, it is about time we had someone in parliament who knows more about strawberry growing than the law.
the big ship,Im hoping your right,the more things become positive for us the more extreme and bizarre the libs and their media friends will become,hopefully making them unelectable for many years to come.
I heard somewhere that if the two independents get the shits with Labor, they can call a no-confidence vote and then the Governor-General will ask if an alternative government can be formed, and then the two independents can say yes, side with the coalition and you have a coalition government all without a new election needing to be declared.
Your right the ABC was way to pro Green. The bias was amazing.
Sullivan was unlucky and apparently gave a pretty reasonable answer to the idiot crapping on about his kid.
What parent would wait two years to find a specialist? The disgraceful MSM and in particular the Oz shitcanned him unfairly.
I read a letter to the editor from someone who was at the event who thought that Sullivan answered fairly and honestly to this idiot and even received a round of applause for saying what he said.
Perhaps he was naive in a way but it can safely be said that Wyatt Roy is now a parliamentarian based on a lie.
Mmmm… Hunt has spotted an emerging descent into chaos.
FIZ – thanks – that’s extraordinary.
Does this mean that Sullivan might have a chance next go-round? Or will the mud stick?
In Abbott’s Budget in Reply speech he only budgetted for 1,000 in his Green Army and I reckon that was taking into the account the some of the Land Care groups already doing stuff.
Er yep, but why would it happen? They hate the Nats.
Truthy
You don’t know where you heard that? Was a detention centre?
marky marky:
Ironically enough, out of all the coverage of that story, the Australian is the one that provides details about the specialists the child had access to.
The nats are their natural enemy in their electorates(Labors not even the hunt), so I can understand this.
But at the end of the day it will be about saving their own hides, so don’t be too sure they wouldn’t switch if and when it suits them.
Fiz- that amazes me, they actually care for a battler. Next week their editorial will suggest further changes to Medicare and more spending on private health care.
Cuppa:
It was reported in the SMH yesterday or day before that Brown has written to the ABC complaining about the lack of coverage the network gave to the Greens during the campaign.
I have to say, I’ve seen more Greens on Sky than I have any other network, including the ABC, so I have sympathy for Brown and the Greens.
The Big Ship
Evidently the history of minority Govt federally is that all 3 didn’t go full-term and all lost.
The Nats should be the ones worried, once spending rolls into their seats people will start asking,
if the independents can get us services why couldn’t the Nats do it in the 11 years of a Howard Government.
who said that
TTH
Paul Keating successfully liberalised workers rights.
He might have lost government after he did it, but he didn’t lose his seat!
He looks more like a mad academic than a parliamentarian
Aren’t minority governments normally formed from OPPOSITION? (except perhaps in Tassie where there is strong support for leftwing governments).
I would say history is against ALP’s side. Untested and dangerous territory of a sitting government descending into hung parliament hell.
my say@1718
Editorial in the Australian
TTH
I think differently. Having lived there for 20 years I can tell you that it is still far too “North Shore” to be considered a safe Labor seat. Bennelong will have to shift further westwards before it could be considered “safe”. It’s marginal, it’s as simple as that.
Another major problem for the Nats is that miners and farmers have different agendas. When it came to a policy choice between miners and farmers, the Nats have invariably supported the miners.
Denison has finished TPP counting.
ALP gets 65.82% of the TPP vote. The margin is 20,525 added to the National TPP
for ALP.
Early last week I predicted that the ALP will get 66% of the TPP in
Denison with a margin of 21,373. (Which is not bad)
http://dr–good.blogspot.com/2010/09/latest-tpp-counting.html
But Denison is easy compared to O’Connor.
Last week I predicted that O’Connor will be a
LNP win by 32,476. (ALP to get 31%)
So far the ALP has 33% of the TPP vote in O’Connor
but there are a very very few votes counted.
If no other seats starts counting then the Libs
might be back in front in the national TPP total
temporarily by tomorrow afternoon.
TTH (again)
Repeat it often enough and you might start believing it.
The Australian editorial writers mysay.
As for the Oz’s “balance” in Sullivangate, easy to appear balanced after the event when the poor bloke has lost his seat.
We report, you deride!
Hunt is overdue a promotion. He has one of the best policy brains in the Opposition. But he believes fervently in AGW. And is a bit damp.
Confessions,
Ah, found it. Thanks!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abc-snubbed-greens-complains-brown-20100906-14y25.html
Untested for Labor governments’
State- Queensland Labor minority rule worked
State-South Australia Labor minority rule worked
State- Victoria Labor minority rule worked
State Tasmania Labor minority rule working and the people seem to love it…
Yep but it will not work, oh it is terrible, oh it is hell- lie down and have another bex you may feel better.
I don’t mind Greg Hunt and don’t think he’s a twit. He’s one of the few coalition MPs with any substance.
He looks like a jockey jenauthor!
Dr Good you are a wizard, do you get off on this stuff, poring over the entrails the way you do?
Next election may see lots of “high profile” independents running. It may make majority Govt harder for either major party.
Why is Abbott so happy, from my reckoning he has just had the worst election result (swing and seats won) for an Opposition Leader against a first term Govt for over 50 years.
So you live in the electorate fo you TTH?
If not, pull your head in, they’re looking for wood.
Senator Scott Ludlam is handling the abc so i was told by Senator browns office via email
And he SOUNDS like one!
Does he have the same (undescended) problem as Pyne?
Boerwar
No, this is no Bernie Banton comment.
While it was an insensitive comment and inopportune, it turns out he was right. He asked what parent takes two years to take their kid to see a specialist. I also thought it seemed a bit suss at the time.
The parents later admitted they didn’t wait two years. They said they has seen various specialists who found nothing wrong, and could not get the ‘right’ diagnosis so the child could get extra funding for help at school.
I might be being a bit harsh, but frankly, I think that family situation might need looking at.
Yeah but he’s bought the koolaid unfortunately confessions.
He could be one of the less disagreeable libs but sadly like so many of them he drifts into nastiness a bit too often.
Just saw add for Channel 9 news Brisbane “Exclusive interview with Wyatt Roy” Will certainly be watching that. NOT!!!
From opposition or from government?
Tassies a different kettle of fish because you have 2 leftwing parties ruling the roost.
h/v
peddling your untruthful statements here that Labor Caucus did not want a leedership change is typical of your anti Labor bile naratives
I do know there were approx 85 of 115 MP’s to vote for Julia , which is why Kevin did not th contest Ballott , whereas you know nothing about caucus ar all, xcept your insubstantiated bias ex MSN , hardly pro labor
Unlike you , Labor peoples here hav moved on & suport Julia 100% , despite 90% of them here feeling sad that a Labor hero in Kevin , he who brought down a rodent , is gone but most Labor poples accepting
that a mea cuppa ,
that a CC defferral that HE kevin made th FINAL call on as PM (unless youse is insulting Kevin by sayin Kevin PM was so weak he just followed orders), and
that a Mining tax stand off against 100 million war chest , all 3 combined were in part self inflicted
Fact that 115 elected Labor MP’s made a decision based on there knowledge of there seats is democracy
Part of my job is to be able to model things like the trends
in the counting so it is good practice for the techniques.
PTMD
Bottom line: Roy used in the same was as labor candidate would have.
so whats that supposed to mean do you think the liberals are irrelevant then truthy
The “right” diagnosis so they could get welfare basically.
o and its tasmania if you dont mind so sick of this tassie bit
so its queenie country then truthy,
No, but listening to reports and seeing Maxine on Q & A she came across as a “average joe” snob, that is too busy having socialite dinners in Canberra to bother talking to the punters.
I’d bet she was pretty unelectable anywhere.. not just in Bennelong. She put a lot of effort into the 2007 campaign but getting rid of Howard went straight to her head and she’s been useless ever since.
Yep. ‘Boats’='Maxine.’ Weird.
In Tassie, probably… it will be a long time before the Libs get power there.
The rest of the country is a different story.
RUAWAKE – Labor spent a whole game coughing up the footie on the first tackle (the first tackle) and Tone and his team still couldn’t win.
But is there any chance that anyone in the lib party room is thinking: we were f… crap and we’ve got to get rid of this burke?
Nope. now is the time to hold hands and learn all the wrong lessons. Long may that continue.
Truthy-
they all formed a governments together with Independents and in all cases they were conservative independents.
We will wait and see, but i think it will work and work well. And the left wing argument in Tassie, well actually it failed when Labor was last in coalition with the Greens their.
TTH
Your comments represent the major problem with the current Liberal Party: the belief that assertion is the truth.
that is where you are wrong we lead others follow now nsw may be out of the loop but soon as the other states smarten up and get some greens and have a
accord with them will mark the end of the right may be,
Yes, Sullivan was a victim of the nice little cleft stick the msm has for pollies.
If a pollie doesn’t answer a question, they are spinning.
If they answer a question honestly, the chances are that they offend someone.
If they don’t answer the question honestly, they are lying.
I’ve had the same experience – media pushing for an honest answer to a question, but the answer wasn’t the one they wanted (that no matter how hard I fought for it, the chances of landing a particular project were slim, simply because the case for the project wasn’t strong enough). As a result, I was accused (front page stuff!) of not having the guts for a fight.
So apparently I was supposed to encourage people to waste time and energy fighting for a project which wouldn’t get up, rather than getting them to go back and look at their submission and fix it so that it had a chance of flying.
Fiz, you might recognise the scenario!
Not really relevant Dio. If you discount that virtually all Liberal governments have been coalitions. In the decade 1901-1910 there were only 3 elections but all the governments were minority- the parliaments all lasted about 3 years. There were a number of changes of government during the parliaments but that was because the house was divided into three almost equal and antagonistic blocks. This is a very different situation more like 1940 when government was decided by 2 country independents. The minority government then failed because the United Australia Party fell apart due to personality clashes and weak leadership. The parliament still lasted 3 years after Curtin was given the baton.
Will Question Time on Sept 28 — the first day back — be the most watched QT in the history of the Australian Parliament? Quite possibly.
This raises the fascinating question of the Opposition tactics. All the indications are is that they will be more ferocious than usual. I wouldn’t mind betting that Labor and its new friends decide to change the tone of their conduct by refraining from yelling, heckling and so forth. This could produce an intrigueing dilemma for the Coalition: Do they bat on with politics as usual? Or do they risk looking Neanderthal in the light of at least the possibility of a changed tone in the House?
Henry: I didn’t like the pink batts deaths accusations – totally OTT. But at least when he talks about climate change, he knows what he’s talking about. Like Hockey, I don’t think serving in an Abbott team has been good for him.
RON – 115 caucus members made a decision knowing that there was an election was around the corner and disunity is death. They had an electoral gun at their heads. What other choice did they have?
pit failed when Labor was last in coalition with the Greens their.]
the greens are older and wiser now an all different, may be the greens that are not part of the deal will get up set time will tell but i think the two that make up the gov. front benches are there to stay, but in the long run i think they all will be.
Also the last time we where in gov, with them there was a lot of financial problems and to often the greens then wanted to change things re conservation the state was not ready for that.Now there is a new generation who understand these things a lot better than their forefathers.
Sorry TTH — you cannot make assertions like you did without having actual knowledge. Your opinion is based on personal dislike — which has no basis in actual fact.
When I bag Tony Abbott — I don’t pretend it is anything more than personal hatred of his politics and ethics. He may well be a hard working local member — of that I have no idea, so I would NOT base any argument on his viability as a local member of that.
Get some facts please — from people with first hand knowledge.
The Ents have awoken
Of course Hunt know what he should be talking about, he wrote a Masters Thesis on an ETS. It is a shame politics has eaten his soul.
I noticed also Virgina Palms Asylum Seeker resort didn’t work out too well for Wayne Swan.
A 10% swing(one of the largest swings in QLD) and now he’s seat is considered marginal.
I can only warn, but these politicians just don’t listen until election day.
Simon Booooda on national narne news.
i know of people in her community and she was very very highly thought of.
truthy do you know some one in that area
BTW: I think there was at least one earlier Minority government 1901-c1922, but I haven’t found it/them yet (busy day & evening). Here are the 3 I knew.
Australian Governments 1939-1945 lists
(1) Menzies 1939-41 Intermittent
[In the party room meeting of 18 April 1939, Menzies was elected leader of the UAP and two days later in Parliament, Page launched a vitriolic attack on Menzies, giving vent to the years of political hostility and personal bitterness between the two men.
Page refused to serve in a government headed by Menzies and withdrew the Country Party from the coalition. The new government which took office on 26 April consisted only of UAP members and relied on Country Party support to remain in office ...
When war broke out in September 1939, Robert Menzies was Prime Minister of Australia, heading a minority UAP Government ... it was not until 14 March 1940 that a UAP-Country Party Coalition Government was formed, after the government had lost a by election to Labor following the resignation of Richard Casey ...
2. Menzies 1940-1
the federal election held some five weeks later on 21 September. Following the ballot the ALP and the Coalition parties (23 UAP and 13 Country Party) each held 36 seats in the House of Representatives, leaving two Victorian Independents, Alex Wilson and A.W. Coles, holding the balance of power. In the Senate, the UAP and Country Party won 16 Senate seats and Labor won 3; from July 1941 the Senate had 19 government and 17 Labor Senators.
Menzies had hoped for a clear decision but the Coalition Government now relied on the support of the two Independents to remain in office. ALP leader John Curtin, while supporting the war effort, resisted Menzies' offers to form an all party national government....
On Menzies return [from London], he found the coalition deep in political intrigue. Under pressure from his own party and his coalition partner to resign,he stood down as Prime Minister and as leader of the UAP on 28 August 1941.
3. Fadden 29 August – 7 October 1941
Stood down when 2 independents shifted support to Curtin
I think they’ll be more feral and won’t temper their outbursts. We know from watching QT that what is reported on the news is in stark contrast to what actually happens – all Tone had to do was get a killer quote that would be picked up by all outlets. The govt response rarely got shown. The oppositon won’t care how feral they get because they know most people don’t watch QT.
But I’ll be watching. In fact I can’t wait.
Wil Anderson on the Drum.
One good thing about John Alexander winning and only good thing, i do not have to listen to this twit this Summer commentating on the Tennis.
Oh zoomster are you famous!
Do people still watch tennis anymore?
ruawake: he should’ve gone to the back bench with Malcolm, rather than serve in a denialist shadow ministry. I wanted Hockey to do the same too.
You will during the Oz Open. He’s planning on keep his gig with channel 7
Wyatt will be talking about the issues that affect teenage Queenslanders, such as… um… the Coalition’s Action Contract?
(It’ll be the first contract these wet-behind-the-ears toad lickers enter into, and what a pearler it will be! Their political imaginations will explode with sunshine!)
Greeting PBers I’m back. What happened today?
Oh well back to the Radio coverage again Tom.
z
Sullivan gave a really insensitive and dumb reply. There is no hiding from that. He actually apologised to the father for his comments.
He was the author of his own demise.
It’s a good idea for politicians not to blame parents of disabled kids for poor outcomes.
He got what he deserved.
John Alexander apparently believes grass tennis courts and croquet lawns must be installed into every new dwelling into Sydneys northern beaches as a matter of priority.
Diogenes @ 1716
It hasn’t happened since 1940 at the Federal level, and I think we can safely say that by the time that minority Government collapsed in 1941, WWII was a significant factor. It only occurred prior to that in the first decade after Federation – hardly a valid guide to 2010.
State Government experience is more recent, and more relevant.
At the state level we’ve had minority Government’s in NSW, Victoria, SA, Tasmania (now 3 times), QLD and now WA, all within the last 20 years, and in Queensland, Tasmania, SA and Victoria these minority Governments went on to achieve absolute majorities at the subsequent elections. Only Nick Greiner’s NSW Government did not, and that was because the Independents (including Tony Windsor, a state member at that time) withdrew their support for him because of allegations of corruption, and John Fahey became Premier of the minority Coalition Government, subsequently losing to Bob Carr in the election of 1995.
The Big Ship,
I’ve got a different view to the convention that the election is determined by an even bigger % of undecideds. The rusted on voters may be diminishing in numbers but many of those who see themselves as swinging probably vote the same way on a regular basis–they don’t classify themselves as rusted on. I think elections are still decided by a few and those few are the Daily Terror readers.Looking back at the rise of Abbott the conservatives in the community were quiet under Nelson and Turnbull because they didn’t represent what they really thought. But when Abbott came along the cons. came out and shouted from the rooftops.
In NSW on a daily basis I come into contact with these people and they read the Terror, love the rugby league and hate the boats–and in the car they listen to Jones and Hadley.
These are the people we are dealing with and these are the people who decide elections–anyone more intelligent and caring knows not to listen to the garbage.
So to think that good policy and good government will see us through is wrong.
We need to break the Murdochracy and as a footnote after 12 years of Howard , how true is PJK’s statement that if you change the government , you change the country-look how entrenched the Tories are in what was Our ABC.
Is their a creche in parliament for Wyatt? Are thing some swings and a slide. And is their a candy bar.
Thank Gawed! Would this be classified as an “infrastructure” project?
Diogenes@1777
Rubbish, and YOU know it.
Some people I’m afraid need to be told a few home truths about their kids situation – this was one such case.
There are some parents who rort the system and use their kid’s disability as a meal ticket.
He apologized because he had to, for political reasons.
His answer was 100% correct.
Rosa
your point applies equally both ways Any leedership change is known in advance by all MP’s that it will create perseption of dis-unity , which in fact it did
Q is not whether you agree or disagree with a 115 decision but that one at least accepts 115 MP’s sure aint gonna vote against a PM who they tink will win them an electon !!
So they made a value judgment based on there electorate/national views , and whilst less informed than thems here may hav a diff view of end result & may be rite or wrong in there own thoughts , they th 115 made a call
Whereas j/v’s anti Labor ideas is just ex MSN biased faceless nonsense spin , (and further quite an insult re cc deferrall to kevin’s strength of character)
Feeney is pretty busy with this and dumping Bitar.
What! Is this allowed?
George its nation building!
Err at the very least northern beaches building!!
What should they do to disabled parents trying to make a buck out of their normal kids?
Diog
Source?
The Vic ALP went through a lot of hand wringing and came to an agreement about what was going to happen several months ago – that Reece would be replaced after the election by Noel Carroll.
I haven’t heard anything to suggest that this agreement is under question and would be surprised if it is reneged on.
I agree with Frank and Diog (gulp)
1) Some people need to be told a few home truths about their kids situation – this was one such case. There are some parents who rort the system and use their kid’s disability as a meal ticket.
2) the middle of an election is not the time to be telling home truths
cool. So instead of a “computer for every child” it will be a “tennis racket for every rich bogun” – awesome!
Confessions i was thinking the same thing?
I find that offence. The kid has quite obviously got Autism yet you feel the need to denegrate them because they are the son of a Lib candidate.
Are Lib Candidate kids less disabled than those of Lab candidates?
Correction to my 1792…his name is Noah.
And I know him like the back of my hand….ooohhh, where did that spot come from?
Truthy
WTF do you think you’re talking about? Because it’s not the case we’re discussing here!
Diogenes
I’m sorry, but that man was lying about his real situation. I would scrape together the $200 hundred dollars anyway I could to get my child to a specialist. John Sullivan was being honest as a parent. At first the man didn’t even identify that his child was disabled, just blamed the government for everything saying that he hadbeen waiting for two years. I’m sure he could have used some of the stimulus money he has received over the past couple of years.
TheTruthHurts@1796
I have a Nephew who has Autisim and I KNOW how little funding there is – unfortunately there are some parents who use the system to benefit themselves, rather than for tgheir child.
Yes George but it must be a wooden tennis racquet for every child. Slazenger preferably.
Tally ho! Who wants a Pimms at lunch?
TTH os talking abouy himself
Er proof? The Docs he has seen have said he is OK, the parents reckon he has a disability. But the Docs cannot find one.
Odd don’t you think.
Confessions@1769
That is a sound point you make. However, this will change if in fact the issue of QT tactics becomes a “story” in the eyes of the MSM. I think this is at least a possibillity if Labor plays its hand right.
You could have a scenario where the Coalition are carrying on like stuffed pigs as usual, while Labor soberly goes about its business — seeking to bring about a new style of politics. That would make quite a “sexy” MSM story: the Coalition failing to budge an inch from the old politics etc. Perhaps I’m giving the MSM too much credit but I think it could play out that way.
The flipside is this: If Labor joins in the usual raucous bout of name-calling and heckling, then there is every chance that the MSM will mock all this talk of the “new paradigm” and the “kinder, gentler polity” that Abbott spoke of.
I think Labor could, if smart, stitch up the Coalition big time in this respect.
He is quite obviously talking about this:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/mp-apologises-for-disabled-child-gaffe-20100820-12ttn.html
I don’t think disabled kids should be the target of attack, thats just my opinion though.
marky marky:
It’s okay if he’s just a guest commentator – we’ve had MPs host a short spot during the cricket, and I think Rudd turned up in the AFL GF last year or year before. But to do his normal commentating role for Ch7 is wrong when he’s an elected MoP.
I’m sure there must be rules about members engaging in outside employment. There are for public servants.
Had to leave after I posted the Oz editorial before and missed out on all the Oz bashing
Oh well, there’ll be plenty more where that came from I take it.
confessions, says it all really. Sore losers in my book!
Yes, Truthy, but the child in question is not the child of a Liberal candidate, which kind of negates the point of your original post.
But you agree autism is very hard to diagnose right?
Truthy you miss the point, the story was bollocks, the father admitted he bullshitted.
So what about Andrew Peacocks’ gaffe in the campaign about intellectually disabled people, did he apologise?
PS Minority governments – I thought Fisher & Hughes led minority governments at some time in their careers & they did – although this was during the period (1901 c1922) of loose & changing coalitions.
Billy Hughes’ case was different & involved the divisive conscription referenda. In November 1916 he Billy Hughes was expelled from the Labor Party and his followers formed a minority Government (briefly using the title “National Labor”)
I’m fairly sure there are more in Federation’s first decade & a half
So: 1. More than 3 minority governments 2. Not all lost subsequent elections.
Why not? It’ll be January and Parliament won’t be sitting. Don’t even ask about him collecting two pay packets and whether that’s fair – most of them do it whether it’f writing columns in the newspaper or running their family business etc.
The LNP should be derided as sore losers who are trying to subvert the Parliament. They have to accept the outcome of the election and the message of the people: They cannot be trusted with Government.
They will be full of rage and bitterness, but the facts are they did not win and their peers in the Parliament have rejected their claims on office. They are the party of false pretenses and deserve to remain in Opposition for a long time to come.
I haven’t seen or met the kid so I wouldn’t know. I have seen other kids with Autism however, and despite being “weird” they physically look very normal.
Toolman on ABC24 telling the “media” that it needs to take a good look at the way they reported this election. Has the man no shame?
alias: I’m not sure if the coalition will moderate their QT behaviour, but we’ll see. I’m not convinced the media will run any narrative against them – they haven’t to date, so why start now? But I’m open to surprises.
Who does Toolman work for?
markey marky, Chris Uhlman works for ABC TV
Annabell Crabb has written a piece on The Drum in which she was talking about much the same. Reporters are going to have to change the way they report
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007376.htm?site=thedrum
What did Uhlmann say exactly?
He read Mark Scott’s bit about Grog.
Good evening everyone
I see that there is some talk tonight on the thread about Maxine McKew, with someone trying to belittle her and make out she was a no-hoper as a member of parliament. And the decent comments back – does anyone know Maxine??
She was my local member and I was very sad to see JA get more votes and end up in Canberra. Damn!! 3 years of yobboville!!
Maxine worked hard especially on education issues – she recognised that the electorate contains important education, training and research facilities and that the North Ryde area is an ICT and technology industry hub. She also gave strong support to disabilities schools in the electorate
My impression was that she worked hard for the electorate – I suspect that some, not all Asian voters turned against Labor because of the perceived loss of face for Rudd, and despite Maxine being linked to him – he really supported her candidature in 2007 – she bore the brunt of that.
She refused to use dirt on JA which some apparently encouraged her to do – she has always been highly ethical and certainly approachable and a good listener!!
God only knows what people who voted for JA thought he would do for Bennelong – what a glory boy – in the one and only “chat” I had with him when he intruded into a private chat I was having with a long term friend I hadn’t seen in some time he put out the Abbott spiel – waste, worst government in history, boats – so I explained that the facts were quite different – his parting comment to me was:
“it’s good to know that there are intelligent women in Bennelong!!”
Yes intelligent enough never to vote for you – I didn’t say it but I certainly thought it!!
ABC24 is a fantastic news channel I have found it neither left or right leaning and seems to give both sides of the story.
I’m glad they started afresh and used new news commentators, rather than the usual mob we see every night on the normal ABC news.
Labor have to defend their claim to office. They are entitled to govern and they should let it be known that the Opposition did not win and have no valid contrary claim. They are resentful and bitter, but that does not give them the right to raise havoc in the Parliament. Labor have to insist on this: the Opposition have to accept the outcome of the electoral and constitutional processes whether they like them or not.
Labor absolutely must not let the LNP raise hell, as they certainly will try to do. The Opposition have no valid claim on office and they should be defined as sore losers from the word go.
Who were the faceless men who nobbled Mr Mogadon’s shortlived tilt at Mesma’s sinecure?
ru, LP has a great post on just this problem
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/09/how-facts-backfire/
Apparantly my dislike for McKew extends all the way down to Bennelong, afterall they were the ones who tossed her out on her arse.
Remember there were very few electorates lost in NSW, what happened in Bennelong that made it one of them?
Renowned cacademic thinker, David Harvey on Beyond Capitalism, if anyone’s interested
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqOP2V_np2c0&h=3a7a9
mmmm The Japanese have picked up the captain of a Chinese fishing boat near some contested islands which are supposed to have oodles of oil under them.
Truthy — read the above post from an actual constituent.
The fact that a large portion of the electorate is usually disengaged, allows for erroneous propaganda to take hold. And you know as well as I do that just one or two people in a 100 swinging voters can cause a change, even when it might be against the tide or against better judgment.
The fact that people like Dutton get returned, even though they are obvious thick-heads, defies all logic to intelligent people — yet it happens! The same as someone like Katter having such a big following when it seems obvious his world view is narrower than a gnats. His rambling, nonsensical speeches might lead some to believe he has the beginnings of dementia — though I tend to think this erratic behaviour might be a ploy.
As if the braindead Tory cheersquad that passes for the media in this country is going to change its tack. In the medias eyes Windsor and Oakeshott are now members of the ALP.
Sharman Stone interviewed on Sky. Not happy. Anothery.
Well, well, well – Our friend at Their ABC. Mark Scott, was the one that killed off Margo Kingston’s Webdiary.
Boerwar@1698
BW – Its pretty easy to let his stuff go through to the keeper.
Plus the clock is ticking – he will blow-up at some stage.
Softly softly….
Note that the Greens win 2 – as I said and you denied – and the Lib/Nats only win 4.
Your argument was that both majors would do better and the Greens would do worse. Your own numbers show this is not true.
Now i know who toolman is, ha ha…
So if the Abc board changes does that mean the ABC becomes more objective. Or does it mean more room for Murdoch hacks like Piers, and Bolt Brain.
Or does it mean that the Abc will cover the Greens, have they been told.
She’s been taking charm lessons from the Indi puff adder.
Boerwar@1830
Being Japanese, they probably “picked up” the poor sailor by harpoon and dragged him up the transom slide on a wire line. And then checked every orifice and his pockets for oil. Obnoxious chauvinism, arrogance, and self-righteousness is not unknown amongst the Japanese, as the Sea Shepherd people know.
Coalition waste watch Item No 1: Coalition members wasting their breath talking about legitimacy and mandates.
Coalition waste watch Item No 2: Coalition members acting as if they won government.
Coalition waste watch Item No 3: 17 members above the age of 60. What are they Going Forward to?
Coalition waste watch Item No 4: Robb sniffing the Deputy Wind.
Don’t these people have constituents they need to be seeing?
Truthy
Two specialists disagree. It is too easy to look for a medical diagnosis for bad behaviour.
On ABC bias.
If the ABC or ABC24 is not biased then why do they call in right wing hack journos from the Murdoch camp to run commentary? Why is it that all their political talking points are taken from the Oz?
Nyaah. More likely
Munchausen by proxy
Had the media used journalistic due diligence, inc checking the medical records – which would have shown that the child HAD gone through everything the father lyingly claimed hadn’t, the alarm bells should have screamed Munchausen by proxy
Her seat is to be abolished under the proposed redistribution.
jv
Given a choice between a democratic nation which has not had a war for over half a century and a dictatorship that routinely locks up and tortures its citizens, and which has been involved in several wars and an imperial occupation of a peaceful country, and which routinely supports thuggocracies in places such as Zimbabwe and Burma, I would go with the Japanese every time.
But did Sullivan know the parent was munchausing?
Dr Bogan Very interesting thanks for link
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqOP2V_np2c0&h=3a7a9
confessions
ah… so, what are her prospects, if any, in the new arrangements?
TruthHurts
I think the difference is in the age of the government. The Gillard government was just 1 month old before it went to the election & got no incumbency benefit. And before that, the Rudd government was in its first term.
I think sitting governments (e.g. Greiner) tend to be judged harshly only if they are “old” governments which are perceived as trying to hang-on despite being exhausted of ideas.
The Gillard government is a very young government … very few voters were expecting it to lose the election … and so it should do fine at the next election, as long as it can keep the economy chugging along.
What do you find so nutty about Katter?
Does the EU not have subsidies? Does the U.S not have subsidies?
Australia has gone it alone, hoping all will work out in Agriculture for us. It hasn’t. Thats the reality. How can we compete against and EU that gives money to it’s farmers just for having a farm? How can we compete against the U.S which has a 100% Sugar tarriff?
Truthful wrote:
His enthusiastic endorsement is another reason to be wary of their ABC.
Doe’s the media want to fight the war again? Oh Rupert, spend the dosh on character building.
I don’t think Munchausen’s is the problem. As I stated before, many parents look to the medical profession for answers when they have a child with bad behaviour.
For some, learning new ways to deal with bad behaviour is just tooooo much work. They would rather give them a pill. It’s easier for them & it vindicates them as parents.
Although, I can see how you would come to that conclusion considering his false statements during the election.
JV, this is how the Japanese see themselves. This is a direct quote.
The Japanese are the biggest bunch of hypocrite.
This was my question earlier, esp wrt Tone’s reshuffle. Is she intending on switching to another seat? Or retiring, in which case why continue with her on the front bench when he can get a younger person into shadow ministry.
Are you crazy? What medico would expose medical records of a child to a journalist?
Gotta love this headline at the ABC
And it sounds like Wilson’s press conference was a classic
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007438.htm
Can someone please name all the seats that weren’t “notional” ALP seats in NSW that the Libs won other than Bennelong.
I mean for christ sakes, ROBERTSON… Belinda Neals old seat was won by Labor.
Please stop the crap… Maxine McKew is the reason Labor lost Bennelong. Stop blaming the weather, the party, the alignent of the moons… this was a MAXINE LOSS.
One for the vault. The oldest MP sat next to the youngest MP.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007032.htm
Fair’s fair – I agree Maxine lost fair and square.
The truth of the matter would seem to be that the electors of Bennelong voted for Maxine in 2007, but then voted against her in 2010 when the Liberals put up a better candidate.
Boerwar@1845
Yes, there are worse, but one does not excuse a rapist because he is not a murderer.
The behaviour we have observed in the whale, dolphin and fishing domains is untenable. No respect for the environment or any other views whatsoever.
State lies and obfuscation; state international bribery and corruption; criminal negligence and ramming at sea – it’s outrageous.
And there is a glaring element as to why haven’t had ‘a war for over half a century’ – the fact that they lost the last arrogant imperialist adventure so badly, and the world prevents them from having unfettered armed forces.
Maybe this is evidence that John Howard was the reason that Libs lost Bennelong.
Just logged on. Welcome back TTH and…STOP THE FERRIES!
In fact the Japanese did lock up two of their citizens recently for exposing the fact that whale meat is sold to restaurants with government approval. So much for whistle-blowers over there.
confessions
Perhaps he is doing this because as you said a few hours earlier today:
I am now “letting go” of this light-hearted argy bargy
The first 6 ministries pre-fusion, the brief National Labour ministry of Hughes and the 3 ministries between 1940 and 1943 were minority ones.
So there have been exactly 10 minority governments before this one.
There have only been 4 of these to go to an election. The Curtin government was returned with a majority in its own right, while Deakin was returned twice as PM in a minority government while famously losing once.
So 3 of the 4 minority administrations to go to the polls have been returned.
As pointed out this is of limited relevance to current situations.
There’s a difference between blatant agenda pushing of media outlets, and the willful populism of MPs.
I’m consistent in calling out both.
jv
The Japanese armed forces are several orders of magnitude more powerful than ours. We continue to choose war. They have continued to choose peace.
Every single person I know who has spent time in Japan loves Japan and enjoys the company of Japanese people.
In terms of relative bad national behaviour, Australia has been in/helped start several very nasty wars: Iraq, 2 million external refugees, 2 million displaced internally, more than a 100 000 dead, etc, etc. We are in no place to cast stones at the Japanese because they want to harpoon a few hundred or even a few thousand whales. We shoot literally millions of kangaroos every year.
And if you think our law enforcement somehow has moral superiority, try talking to Indigenous people in WA and Qld.
Boerwar
Norway kills more whales than Japan, but heck why let the facts get in the way of a good protest?
Frank
If he didn’t stuff up, why did he apologise?
Peter Garrett had a once ion a lifetime chance of doing a deal with Japan to enforce a blanket ban on endagered species with the guaranteed right to commericlaly whale the “Rabbits of the sea” Mikie whales.
But of course ideology got in the way of logic and Labor and Garrett sent a “Stuff you alls” instead.
Utter Stupidity. Japan will continue to whale endagered species now because Labor are so bloody useless they can’t bring themselves to compromise for results.
Just discovered – full text of LNP manifesto
STOP THE WASTE of time and space that is the LNP
STOP THE BOATS so we can get on and leave the country
PAY OFF THE DEBT cause we have got a Great Big New Black Hole to replace it
END BIG NEW TAXES except for those that twe are going to introduce
THS, OC and OPT
Thanks for that about the history of minority Govt. I know nothing about Oz politics pre-Fraser.
Madcyril
Tuckey was so gracious in defeat. Not! He called Crook an unknown nobody.
What is it with these rednecks? Me thinks they suck too many lemons.
Diogenes@1871
You know perfectly well why – he was forced into doing so politically.
Honestly, you think your moral supiority here suggests we are mugs.
Well perhaps you should look a bit closer to home
TTH, the swing against Labor in Sydney was 6.1 per cent. In Bennelong it was 4.5 per cent.
BW, they have no choice.
The true Tory breeding of the born to rule Libs has very quickly come to the surface.
Sickening!
Boerwar@1868
That is an exercise in ‘others are just as bad’. Yes, there are other environmental criminal and literal criminal states, but that is no reason to pardon any of them. The havoc caused to the oceanic ecosystems by the Japanese in particular is dreadful (and, yes some other recalcitrant nations on a smaller scale too) – with longline fishing, illegal fishing, dolphin and whale ‘harvesting’ in international and Australian waters.
I like Japanese people when not talking about killing whales and dolphins and albatrosses too. They are very polite, just like they are in Finnigans’ image earlier. So are most rapists.
Reprehensible behaviour is reprehensible behaviour. It isn’t excused because the perpetrator has good manners at the dinner table, and is good company at the karaoke bar and on the ski slopes. I think you know this.
zoomster
Feeney want someone called Nathan Lambert. The article says your guy has the numbers.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/queen-makers-at-odds-over-factional-deal/story-fn59niix-1225916541398
An observation on Twitter:
In safe Labor electorates and mainly to the Greens.
The seat of Robertson actually had a SWING to the Labor Party.
It’s convenient for Maxine to blame everyone but herself, but quite clearly she was the only one in NSW that got voted out of power.
suppose some of you are watching the abc 7.30 report
I never knew the Chaser boys did a pursuit trivia on Tony Windsor. Fantastic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rwm9kWso2E
TTH believes ALP only lost one seat on NSW
TTH also clearly acknowledges the ALP is in power
my say
not worth the effort tonight.
unfortunately
if not i sugest you watch the 7.30 report
Diogenes
Imagine that – ‘loyal to Bill Shorten and Stephen Conroy’. *shudder*
Just shows you how far the former ‘socialist left’ ship has drifted away from the wharf at Proletariat-ville
Do the ALP members get a say on who the next president in Victoria should be?
No, to the Liberals. We’re talking two-party here. It so happens that I’d like to agree with you – I had McKew pinged as a political idiot when she said this shortly after she was elected. But the fact is that there’s little reason to think she was defeated by anything other than the swing against Labor in Sydney.
There was only 1 sitting ALP member in all of NSW voted OUT of power, and that was Maxine McKew.
Make of that what you will.
Remember even “devil child” Belinda Neals old seat went to Labor.
ashame it about Mr. Ganaut ???.
“The seat of Robertson actually had a SWING to the Labor Party.”
Retiring member effect.
Says it all when the right wingers support a left winger to be PM.
I suspect Belinda Neal was a drag on the Labor vote in Robertson even before she was elected.
Fielding, milking the dying months of his relevancy for every last drop.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/swan-wont-bully-me-on-mining-tax-says-fielding-20100908-151d2.html
Confessions,
I began our interchange in response to your comment:
I responded to this and you followed up with:
followed a few hours later by your comment:
There is a difference between blatant character assassination and an evidence-based response to back up your assertion.
You are consistent in denigrating BB and the Greens when it suits your partisan political outlook. You are consistent in praising BB and the Greens when it suits your partisan political outlook.
Now, it really is time for me to wander off and complete a cryptic crossword.
JV, as long as you dont try to be one of them. Just be a gaijin (“outside person.”) and they will love you to dearh.
Vernula Publicus,
How about
STOP THE SLOGANS – Render the conservatives mute.
Why didn’t Robertson go the Libs way then? Or Lindsay?
730 attacking Garnaut for being chair of a mining company
All part of ABC plot to undermine ALP agenda
STOP THEIR ABC!!!!!
i have been watching it. how come they have just suddenly found this out?r
Frank
You are mugs. The guy stuffed up and made a comment which possibly lost him the election. He showed very poor judgment and the voters told him what they thought of him.
That is what happens in a democracy. People like him get the boot.
William Bowe@1897
William, you’ve got it in one. The Labor vote was at absolute rock bottom here in Robertson before Neal nearly failed to win it in 2007. Word of mouth is a powerful thing on the Central Coast. The demographic influx should have made it a relatively easy win for Labor in 2007. Deborah O’Neal should be safe from here for a long time, as long as she keeps out of Iguana Joe’s when she’s full of ink.
Diog
I’m very fond of both of them!
On farmers and subsidies:
1. A very dear friend of mine complained that her councillor allowance meant that she had to pay tax (couldn’t find enough offset expenses) – her gripe? She’d never paid tax before because “I’m a farmer.”
2. Another friend was excited when the next door farm went up for sale. He sat down and worked out he could pay it all off within five years. Went to the bank manager and laid out his financials before him. The bank manager knocked him back on the basis that he hadn’t paid any tax for 10 years so how could he say he had enough income to pay off the loan?
3. A friend of mine works in the insurance business. Gets tired of farmers telling him that they can’t afford the premiums but they must insure their new car, tractor, harvester, etc. When he asks them on what terms they’re paying these back, he gets told that they paid cash for them.
Our farmers are heavily subsidised, because our taxation system means that they can structure their affairs so they never pay tax, but in times of hardship we pay them to continue what (by their own books) appears to be a loss making proposition.
Which is, of course, why so many Collins St doctors want to be farmers and why the more successful you are professionally the less likely it is you will make money farming.
Get Eddie Groves into their ABC! That will fix them.
This is the poor form we have come to expect from the Rabbott.
Diog, we Australians, must show manner, even in public.
Partly because it’s not in Sydney. Beyond that, good question.
Because the margin was bigger. As was the swing.
I would like to see a non-Maxine candidate run in Bennelong… but alas I must wait until the net election now. That should be a good indicator on whether this was a Labor problem or a Maxine problem.
Although i like Maxine McKew i do think their is something in what truthy says. Although Maxine probably always acted in the best interests of her electorate,
she may have been seen as a bit full of herself and a bit aloof at times.
Nonetheless i would get McKew into a safe seat somewhere for the next election. However this may not occur because she is non-aligned.
I am not disputing his points of argument — but his delivery is so erratic that there is obviously an issue with how his mind works. Joyce and Fielding suffer from the same meandering — which tends to confuse not only their listeners, but also themselves.
Diogenes@1906
Hello, he was responding to information taken at face value, which subsquently was proven to be correct – ie he was being strung along by the parent.
Now who is the mug again ?? – looks at the so-called Doctor who got his Degree out of a Wheeties packet by the way he posts.
The Finnigans@1900
No problem playing that role.
We need a whale on every roof.
While the timing of the report may be questionable, so is dumping tailings in the sea. How could it not affect the marine environment? I am seriously concerned by this.
Katter’s problem is that he talks before he thinks, and that he tends to have a mind which does not have a long concentration span, it jumps from one thing to next very wquickly.
Brief summary of Abbott at meeting on 7.30 report.
wwte
Very close to my heart was in 2007 a terrible wrong happened. It is my great pleasure to say that this wrong has been righted. Please welcome the new member for Bennelong JA. What is wrong with these people. Born to rule doesn’t even begin to cover this.
Frank
You just don’t get it. He is a politician. His job is not to attack individual parents for their parenting skills.
He admitted he got it wrong. But you just cannot cope with the truth.
The voters had the final say on his comments. Fortunately, someone with that complete lack of tact didn’t get elected.
deflationite@1918
Indeed. Terrific insulation is whale fat – sure beats pink batts. They wear whale fat on cross channel swims in the North Sea. What didn’t the government think of that last year?
Frank, why do you hate Bob Hawke so much?
JV, dont push your luck
In all of this it needs to be remembered as well that Maxine got over the line because of Green votes in 2007 and the seat became increasingly marginal before 2007 for Howard because Andrew Wilkie got around 16% primary vote in 2004.
Most of the pre-election and election day supporters Wilkie gathered in 2004, moved to Maxine in 2007.
Pegasus: I’m happy for you to believe anything you want about my comments. It doesn’t bother me one way or another. Like I said, in my view you are no different from the other rigid partisans here who find criticism of their political party difficult to tolerate.
What is of interest to me however, is that you can’t provide a substantive response to my observations about Brown’s comments on ‘governing from opposition’, in particular his talking out both sides of his mouth when he says he won’t put forward bills that increase taxes, vs he won’t put forward bills that impact the budget. I think it’s entirely justifiable to question these little inconsistencies, not only in the context of our parliamentary circumstances, but given that, as I’ve noted on many occasions here and elsewhere, the MSM does not scrutinise the Greens other than to write them off as communists or economic vandals or some other juvenile description.
Most Japanese have never seen let alone tasted Whale meat. It is reserved for the absolute elite and probably 10 times more expensive than caviar.
This stereotype that Japanese are picking up whale meat from their local woolies equivalent is a complete furphy.
Having said that there are roughly ~1 Million Minke Whales floating around the ocean, how can someone claim it is evil to hunt a few hundred of them every year when we kill tens of thousands of Kangaroo’s just in culls?
i am sure senator brown will be sending off another letter to the abc.
When does the present board expire.
And abandoned her in 2010?
William Bowe@1924
I Love Hawkie – Dio is no Hawke
Diogenes@1922
Sometimes Pollies have to question people’s true motives – this is one such case.
Deal with it
But I forgot if it were a Lib Pollie who did it you’d excuse it.
confessions
The deal is in writing and signed. Did they release it? Then we’d know what it really means.
On the face of it, I couldn’t see anything wrong with what BB said until BW raised the point that he could campaign for something (mental health for eg) and then say Labor refused to raise taxes to allow it which would be pretty ordinary.
Back in 1967 tinned whale meat was available at the local woolies equivalent – whether present day scientifically tinned whale meat is available I cannot say.
BB@1930
Too true – almost added it myself but thought others would gather that –
However they did not rush to JA – he had a sufficient coterie of the entrenched believers from all over!!
I overheard one say to 2 young women handing out at a booth that he was shocked that pretty young things supported the Greens – just confirmed their views of older male Libs!
Frank
Umm that is where you are wrong. I would say the exact same thing no matter who said it.
You are the one who thinks being blindly partisan is a good thing. I don’t.
But Frank, Sullivan lost. A more diplomatic response by him may have saved his seat.
Deal with it.
It’s Time@1936
Wrong – It HAD to be said.
It’s called being honest with someone.
Funny how Libs can get away with it – like Andrew Peacock.
Factual error: The Japanese did not lock up two of their citizens.
how long is this going on for? 7.30 tonight was a 10 minute love fest for the liberals – joe hockey had another 5. hardly anything from the “government”
and insights SBS had a captive audience of climate sceptics
I’m going to US for a break.
This was the first thing I thought of when I read the SMH article this morning: a wrecking strategy. When comments came through here with links to his ABC interview, it became apparent he’d said ‘taxes’ in one breath, and ‘cost to budget’ in the next. Who knows what he means, it certainly isn’t clear from his public statements. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt that the Greens wouldn’t hamstring the govt in such a way, but I’m coming off a low base.
where is the umpire? will someone blow the whistle – game over.
I suppose jg is avoiding a stoush with bullies – which they want
an argument over legitimacy
legitimacy. illegality. criminality. this is language of fascists. who let the
elephant into our national living room (BB are you listening??)
Is this the real TTH or an imposter, his posts seem to have a slightly more considered element to them – just slightly. perhaps he has had some time to improve his intellect in his down time.
When we stop killing millions of kangaroos a year we will be in a position to criticize the Japanese killing a few hundred whales and dolphins in a non-hypoctical way.
Just imagine what would have happened if Sullivan had batted off the question in a way that didn’t cause national headline news.
Geoffrey
Also as in my post above Abbott saying that great wrong that was done in 2007 was righted by winning back the seat of Bennelong. Who exactly is the government? Julia got about two minutes coverage. Truly pathetic.
It had to be said on local ABC radio and in front of a crowd? Obviously he has been taking lesson in hard love from you. One would expect a professional pollie to give a more diplomatic answer in such circumstances. It’s not as though this was a private meeting in his office.
Who cares what people do with kangaroo meat or whale meat?
Frank give up it is a pretty simple double standard a labor pollie has to say exactly what they think it has to be 100% or more accurate and the media can write a week of false stories on it and he lost for saying something stupid. At the same time the conservatives can run a whole campaign on lies supported by the media and be congratulated for such a fine campaign. Ultimately the voters get what they deserve and caboolture and I assume without checking morayfield get what they deserve ad did bennelong
A lots changed since the “colonial days”.
You should go back there sometime.
Frank
Peacock did not get away with it. His comments were even worse.
In general I prefer fresh meat to tinned meat.
I’ve been in banland for about 2 months, it gives some time for thinking.
TheTruthHurts #1928:
Codswollop. Whale meat is widely available in Japan and is not overly expensive.
No wonder the truth hurts, It destroys your every blithering utterance.
It’s Time@1946
Ahh a Mollycoddler – Any person dealing with such such a question would respond in EXACTLY the same way – if niot more bluntly.
And I know from personal experience.
You try applying for ANY Centrelink benefit or dealing with various funding bodies – they give you the 3rd degree to make sure you are kosher.
and that is the TRUTH.
Dio
You’ll be pleased to know that Anna Bligh is doing her orderly stint in the hospital tonight in the emergency ward. Not exactly Friday night or Saturday night but I’m sure it’ll be busy enough.
Diogenes@1950
Bullshit – his comments did NOT get the same amount of ferocity as Sullivan’s.
Nice try though.
Peacock was not a candidate.
I trust that Bligh knows the technical term for when the medical system kills some one as part of the health experience.
It’s Time
Everyone in Brissie should go out, get drunk, get into fights and turn up and say hello.
Good on her. I’m sure she is accused of a stunt but I think pollies need to get out a bit more. And ED is a real eye-opener.
geoffrey, you may want to read Possum’s posting yesterday. Expect more of it. And BTW, would people refrain from diagnosing Munchaussen’s by Proxy on a political blog. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
It seems the dad lied about having had the child assessed, disagreed with the findings, i.e., there was nothing abnormal found, but also admitted he’d lied = not Munchaussen’s.
The politicians’ reactions, both of them, as well as the so-called reportage, says more about how our polity operates. Neither of the politicians would have had a clue how to react to this father, and the MSM just sucked it up to feed whatever they wanted to push.
My previous post @ 1781 re: minority Governments.
Another aspect to that minority Government (with 74 seats in the House split 32 ALP, 36 UAP/Country Party, 4 Non Communist Labor and 2 Independents) under Menzies and Fadden from September 1940 through to October 1941 was that it was succeeded by another minority Government under John Curtin that continued in power with the support of the 2 Independent MPs, Arthur Coles and Alex Wilson until the election in August 1943 which was won in a landslide by Curtin and Labor.
So the last minority Federal Government we have had in Australia was Curtin’s which lasted nearly 2 years, and he won the subsequent election by claiming 17 extra seats in the 74 seat Parliament taking the ALP to 49 seats, then went on to win the War – not too shabby a set of achievements from a minority staus.
Frank
This has got noting to do with the Sullivan incident. People don’t vote in Centrelink staff or funding bodies; they vote in pollies like Sullivan who was on display. That poor presentation may have cost him his seat.
So, business as usual?
HSO
Have you dealt with any Munchies by Proxy? I’ve only seen one (who was injecting her kid with insulin). It was a harrowing experience.
TheTruthHurts
More like TheAssertionsDon’tHurt
It’s Time@1962
You have no clue as usual – When you go and speak to a pollie they do exactly the same thing.
Sullivan was set up, pure and simple and you and Dio fell for it like the mugs you are.
admit you are BOTH wRONg.
BW
It’s not us she has to worry about; it’s the patients and relatives.
Am I allowed to tell my story of the director of the ED in Chicago again?
Boerwar
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/activists-arrested-200608/
Frank
I’m guessing the guy who lost the seat and admitted he was wrong is probably the best bet on who was wrong. But that’s just my reality-based opinion.
Express empathy with the person. Accept that there appears to be a problem but that this is the exception to the rule and we have a fine health system here and we intend to make it better. However you would like to speak to the father afterwards to get more details and see if we can assist further.
Is that clueless, dishonest or insulting? Not rocket surgery.
When I was listening to this forum, the father didn’t say that he thought the child was suffering from a disabiity until well into the exchange. He began by saying that he had been waiting to see a specialist for his child for over two years, which clearly was a lie, and only after Mr Sullivan replied “what parent would wait for two years to take their child to see a specialist” did he then go on to claim that he could not afford to see a specialist about the possibility his child had autism. Mr Sullivan then asked if they had been to the doctor to get a referral and the man replied yes, but hadn’t taken his child to the specialist. As I said before, if I had a child I would do anything to scrape that money together to take my child to a specialist.
It’s Time
After Mr Sullivan found out his child possibly had autism he did do this, and they met later and discussed how he could help him.
Actually he never said that, he said his son had issues which the doctors couldn’t diagnose.
The Lab candidates suggestion that you should know your kid has a disability well before 2 years was a moment of stupidity. A lot of diseases you will not notice until well into the childs development.
Heard some interesting news on ABC radio. The “polls” show that most Australians want a new election and that they would vote the Coalition in. Huh? What polls? The only one that bears any relationship to the this story would be the JWS that shows a slight edge to the coalition in 2PP. They are just making things up now.
Loved the negative spin on everything: unemployment down? Economists warn of interest rate rises, complete with economist saying he DIDNT think interest rates would rise as a result of this fall.
I still havent heard Gillard come out against the illegitimate charge. She needs to ask Abbott and his folk to pull their heads in and not undermine our electoral system. I really hope she isnt going back to keeping quiet and letting the opposition and the MSM control the news cycle. Come on Eileen!
Frank, you don’t appear to know the difference between a meeting in the member’s office and a OB event at the local shopping centre in an election open to the public.
Thats Friday night
It’s Time@1975
Neither do you it seems.
Read Blackdog’s posts – or don’t they fit into your Anti-Labor Meme ?
Call it what you like Dio but it was a crude Gotcha that had nothing to do with what the media claimed in the 48 hours prior to the poll. I did see somewhere that Sullivan was well ahead in the polling the previous night.
Dio, his choice of words were poor. But the basis of the man’s question that generated the response ie. that he had waited two years to see a specialist, was a complete lie.
And the father failed to correct the record and only felt sick to the stomach after the election.
The issue is not whether something is wrong with the son. Its why a father would lie about his son’s circumstances and then not correct the record until it was too late
Actually isn’t Thursday often quite a big night. Dole cheques etc come out on Thurs and I remember it being fairly busy in ED on Thurs night (not nearly as bad as Sat or Fri). The worst night I ever had was on the Friday night of the first Grand Prix in Adelaide. That was absolutely hell.
blackdog
I know that. However it was not broadcast over local ABC radio or published in the papers. The damage was done publicly, the repair was done privately. For a seasoned politician he behaved very naively.
Frank
Thankyou. This is exactly what happened. I felt really sorry for Mr Sullivan, as the media twisted it it suit their own agenda.
Actuallly the issue was about why someone would attack the dad for not taking his kid to a specialist to diagnose the problem within the first 2 years of their life.
It was poor taste, stupid and inconsiderate.
I still don’t know why Bligh does all this Masterchef and roaming hospitals at night. I think that has been a large part of her problem all this sideshow stuff.
Andrew
I agree with all that. The funny thing is the dad is evidently a Labor voter. I don’t understand where he is coming from. Perhaps he was just attention-seeking.
But Sullivan only gets judged by his own actions, not those of others.
TheTruthHurts@1983
It’s a perfectly legitimate question.
If the father was a drug addicted Alcoholic – DoCs would be on his door before you get even complete your daily ablutions.
Andrew,
Well said. It was a setup and M King played it over and over. Wyatt earp sat behind with an idot grin (still is). Same as he did when his worker assaulted a labor worker.
TTH
Would you not do anything in your power, do any job you could find to earn the extra money to take your child to a specialist. Why wait two years.
Tuckey’s unhinging is the top story at the Oz. Part of me feels sorry for him. He obviously expected to win, as he’d done at each election in the last 30 years. Probably why he didn’t object to the redistribution, as William expected him to.
When my grandfather retired (as a result of company restructuring) he and my grandmother went into a bit of shock at the change in circumstances. Ma still tried to go about her usual daily routine, but this time had Pop cluttering underfoot and getting into her space. Pop went into a bit of denial, taking on every project around the house he could find, starting everything, but finishing nothing.
I hope the Tuckeys find a way to deal with the shock of their change of circumstances, and go onto a happy and productive retirement. Maybe Wilson should start a blog and tell us all about those constitutional amendments he wanted to purse in office.
So if your kid had autism, you think you’d know before the age of 2?
Seriously?
Regardless of the scumbag father’s behaviour, a politician who has a natural tendency to blame the victim is not the right person for the job.
The candidate would have acquitted himself well if he’d said in response wtte of: “Ooh. That doesn’t sound right. Can you give your details to my assistant so I can look into it and bring it up?”*
*(The old “mirror and spew” the politicians’ friend. The lesson for Labor from this is that every candidate should have Mirror and Spew Training, so such situations don’t happen again)
Diogenes
We constantly hear about doctors being overworked. How do you find so much time to blog on this site? Are you semi-retired?
lol
So Frank, you think it will win friends and influence voters by calling out a parent making a complaint at a public event which is being broadcast on local ABC radio during the last week of an election campaign?
Perhaps you should read #1970 to get a clue as to how to handle it better.
He stated in his presser that this was exactly what he was going to do. Start a blog that is.
I’m very pleased to see the great amount of faith you are all putting in this mythical specialist. However I would suggest that seeing the doc would only be the start of a very long journey. A single visit would not make much difference (unless there was nothing wrong when it also wouldn’t make much difference!)
Dio, IMO he is one of those Labor voters that says I usually vote Labor but this time I’m not- ie. a fake Labor voter.
How could a real Labor supporter sit by and see the grilling Sullivan got and the commentary that it could cost his seat, without correcting the record?
My understanding of Sullivans question was why did you wait 2 years to see a specialist or wtte. Maybe saying something like are you on a waiting list, do you have a referral etc may have been better, or what reasons have you been given for the 2 year wait? The latter may have caught him in his lie
TheTruthHurts@1990
If you saw that something wasn’t right, you would visit EVERY Health professional you could find in order to see what the problem is – even if it takes two years to get the correct diagnosis.
Truthy the claim was that there was a two year wait and there clearly wasn’t, it was a fiction on the eve of an election with only one outcome possible and front page of the Statewide paper the next day. A beatup from start to finish.
Dio, youre missing the point, probably deliberately. The whole thrust of this man’s question was the failure of the system, ie. waiting 2 years to see a specialist. No one is suggesting that would have fixed him, obviously. The issue is that this was a lie. Surely you get that??
It’s Time@1993
See Andrew’s and Blackdog’s posts and get a CLUE.
Oh I forgot, it ruins your constant Anti ALP Meme here.
Dee
I’m at home. I mainly work 9-5 five days a week now. It’s pretty easy to skim read a few posts during the odd break and chip in during the day.
Frank, this is what they did apparently, and got a number of opinions that their son was OK, which they do not accept. They had done everything but wait the two years. When is the ACA expose??
Dee: I hope he does. Not only will a Mad Uncle blog be a continual source of amusement (
), but it might give him the outlet he evidently needs, as in his presser he talked about not being ready to leave politics.
Andrew@1999
It seems both Dio & It’s time in their haste to bash an ALP person seem to omit that small point.
I think this might be what terrifies Abbott and co. Each of the ‘winning’ minority govts (state & fed) have gone on to win, and win well atthe following election — because it stops the ‘gameplaying’ in politics for the period of the minority govt.
They couldn’t unseat Labor, even with the vehement ‘might’ of the press. And post election we have seen their ‘undoing’. They have given Labor good fodder against them, and with the checks and balances now in place, Labor cannot ‘govern badly’ because it’ll bring the govt down.
Thus ANY smear campaign from the opposition will be very difficult to embark upon. What will the coalition do? The press cannot get worse — it was as blatant as anyone would dare in this campaign.
Plus, ALP learned lessons. After so long out of office, they forgot how to use incumbency both during the term and during the campaign. They won’t do that again — the intelligence of the front bench will not allow it (they complacently thought good govt would speak for itself).
Plus, the changes that will now come about (advertising and procedures) will prevent a lot of the coalition ‘stock in trade’ nastiness having such an effect. All of which makes the opposition resentful and fearful.
I am looking forward to seeing WHAT tactics the opposition attempt to employ during the term.
It’s Time- rocket surgery???? LOL. I guess a combination of rocket science and brain surgery??
AEC Website at 7:54pm.
ALP leads by 23,435 votes.
Andrew
Umm no. The issue is Sullivan’s response. Surely you get that??
I should add that it is not uncommon for patients to have to wait two years to get to see a specialist in SA.
So Sullivan didn’t know how to deal with a person who might have been lying or exaggerating after all these years as a pollie?
Frank I’m a one eyed Labor gal but honestly, this guy is a politician dealing with the public. You can’t always say what you think. Yes, the father is a liar but he didn’t know that at that time. You have to be diplomatic to hold public office.
I think the whole issue stinks but surely, during the heat of an election he could have engaged his brain before opening his mouth especially in light of the hostile media.
I’m amazed that the Coalition would in fact want an election any time soon given the costings fiasco.
In fact, I think the only reason they’re pushing this whole legitamacy/fresh election line is that they think Labor is scared of an election.
Perhaps Julia Gillard should call Tony Abbott’s bluff? Ask him directly in Question Time if in fact he wants an election. Of course he’d bluster about letting the Government have an opportunity to govern, and about reserving the right to press for polls should the Government stumble, but really, unless Gillard somehow tackles this head-on the whole “legitamacy” line is going to be relentless.
It’s Time@2009
Anyone can spin a plausible bullshit story on a radio show and can usually get away with it.
Admit you’re wrong on this.
jenauthor youre spot on- the reason the coalition and MSM are so angry is that they realise Labor can work in this situation and win the next election handily. Bracks did exactly this in 1999 and won the next election in a huge landslide.
in terms of learning lessons, Gillard and Swan to need directly address the charges Abbott made re: debt and explain to the public how this is being reduced. I think this was one of the most succcessful parts of the campaign ($100m a day)
Good feel.
Libs won’t like it.
Interesting but useless and irrelevant.
OK then, a whale, peacock and a crocodile on every roof.
Jenauthor @ 2005
You did not hear Jones & Hadley on 2GB this morning? Worse than ever!!!
They’ve just started adding votes from O’Connor (a whole 73 so far), so brace yourself for a short-term reversal.
Let me get in before Frank does.
Another anti-Labor troll plying your lies and distortions and not having a clue.
Diogenes@2008
It all depends if you are a public or private patient – I hear if you can pay – you get seen YESTERDAY.
and you want to help youur kid you would do ANYTHING to get the money to see a specialist.
Dee@2010
Dee
At least you have one working eye.
But when a loyalist’s head is so far up the party’s body politic that only the soles of his shoes are visible, even the one peeper is useless.
It’s Time@2018
Jen at least has said it was either a poor choice of worrds or they came out the wrong way.
YOU on the other hand are the Anti Labor Troll.
Nice try at verballing me as usual.
Yes Frank I admit that Sullivan did not give a diplomatic and neutralising response in a public forum which was also being broadcast on local ABC radio during the last week of an election campaign. Now, where am I wrong, apart from having to now be represented by Roy boy?
jaundiced view@2020
Looked in the miiror yourself recently ?
Jaundiced GREEN
Boerwar:
There is no doubt that there were many more of the great whales in the oceans in 1788 than there are now, BW. European settlement of Australia established a huge number of permanent surface water sources and as a result, kangaroo populations are vastly higher now than they were in pre-settlement times. The culling of kangaroos in come areas is actually an environmental positive.
No more on the Jon Sullivan issue please.
Frank
That wait is obviously in public. You could easily wait a few months in private to see a developmental paediatrician.
And obviously you would hope that most parents would do anything to get the money but you’d really be surprised that quite a few don’t. Criticising them for it doesn’t help the kid.
Not uncommon but didn’t the father state that his son had been seen by a specialist within two weeks?
The second visit to a private specialist was about the same?
Where Frank? Put up or shut up.
I’m happy with that – I completely missed it in the first instance so I have NO idea why everyone if fighting over it, and all of today/tonight – must have been good I guess
William – in O’Connor if they measure Crook v Labor that would be a major distortion as lots of Labor people would have voted 1 Crook. If they did a Tuckey v Labor the result would be a lot different?
Frank
I agree with you. This man was very aggressive from the start, and I honestly would have said the same as John Sullivan. He started blaming the state system, then he couldn’t afford to go a specialist. John Sullivan did ask whether he had seen a doctor and got a referral to see a specialist. It really sounded like like a set up.
The child in question is 6, not 2. Read what the father said, and his admittance of lying, here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/dad-who-took-out-alp-mp-jon-sullivan-recants/story-e6frg6nf-1225913546804
Sullivan’s mistake was in speaking his mind instead of telling the father to leave his details so he could get back to him at a later time. Amateurish.
It’s Time@2028
See post 2018
Sorry William. I didn’t see your post.
Sorry William, I was too busy typing and deleting and didn’t see your missive.
William Bowe@2025
Thanks. Great idea
I’m afraid, Frank, that I’m with Dee on this one too. Forget what subsequently transpired. If you are a candidate in a marginal outer city seat, surrounded by hostile media, in a community which is already fed up with the local state government of your own political persuasion, of which your wife happens to be a member, you just don’t go looking for trouble like this.
Doing what looks like picking on kids having a hard time getting medical attention (even if they are not) never goes down well. Sure a Wilson Tuckey might get away with something similar in the backblocks of WA, but you just can’t afford to do anything that looks like “hitting the voter” in a situation like this one. It invariably goes down like a lead balloon. I wouldn’t be surprised if it knocked a few votes of other Labor candidates in the Brisbane “child belt” too. Really not a clever reply. An experienced Pollie like Sullivan should certainly have known better.
Whopps. Sorry William. Your warn off came after I had started posting.
The kid is the real loser
Which is another beef with the media coverage of the saga. Why did a newspaper choose to put photos of the kids on the front page of a paper last week, I thought that in itself was weird.
Wilson is obviously taking it very well.
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/wilson-tuckey-exits-politics-with-a-spray-at-nationals-mp-tony-crook/story-e6frfllr-1225916656053#ixzz0z1tME3zc
Frank – Don’t include me here — I have deliberately stayed out of the Sullivan discussion!
Evening all, been off marking & writing an article like a good girl. Now poured my evening port to catch up with all my PBer companeros. Hi all anything much happen today?
So did you guys hear about my “concession speech” to Crook today? I owned the dirtbag good! I am gonna start a blog soon telling everybody what’s wrong with everything!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a bag of poo I am going to light on Crook’s porch!
perhaps he has helpers
jenauthor@2042
Whoops, sorry, I meant Dee.
Hi Doc,
Good to see you new avatar.
Pebbles,
I lurved your concession. Dont forget the hubris!
No worries Frank
It’s good that you can have some sympathy for him, Confessions. I find it difficult myself because of his (and party’s) ideological commitment to the ‘right’ of employers to fire without cause. If it’s good enough for him to strive to abolish protection from Unfair Dismissal, meaning women and young workers can be dismissed instantly even if they’ve done nothing wrong … then I can feel no sympathy for him over the voters of his electorate dismissing him. I mean, it wasn’t like the election date came at him out of the blue or anything. He knew the election was coming up and should have prepared himself in advance for the possibility of defeat. That’s a luxury a “regular” employee who is liable to dismissal on the spot without even an explanation required doesn’t have. Further, if Tuckey was taken by surprise by the election result, this indicates an entrenched born-to-rule entitlement complex, in which case it’s a good thing he’s been turfed.
TSOP — love your new avatar — hey, if all us a ‘lefties’ used the same avatar, do you think we’d confuse TTH?
Post Earlier Today:
Yep it will be Zimmer frames at high noon
evening paddy yes finally worked out how to change the avatar
Nah. It’d make us easier to identify though.
I support Gillard and like her.
Although she’s not above (valid) criticism.
Quickly lose that part of you that feels sympathy for Tuckey. Remember this was the individual who felt apologising to the stolen generation was beneath him and walked out of the Apology to the Aborigines. He deserves no sympathy whatsoever and is clearly a mean spirited nasty individual and karma has come to get him. Good riddance I say.
Hi TSOP stopped talking to me have you
Hey Doc,
You are way in front of me. I can barely type proper.
I like Julia’s sense of humour, and her acerbic wit — which I think Tony just cannot come to grips with.
Paddy
I get to practice everyday!
TSOP
you look amazing. Julia obviously got a new makeup artist after she became PM. She is looking radiant.
Why can’t we be friends?,
fantastic words, Dips lid.
Good Evening Senorita, dont forget “We ride, we fight, we love”
Doc,
So do I but it doesn’t help!
Hey Dr B, ‘sup?
I am vastly running out of things to talk about on here. While we wait for both teams to organise their front benches, all we can do is have empty debates of “shoulda coulda woulda”
I hear parliament will resume on 28 September. Isn’t that Julia’s birthday?
Evening Finn
Count me in then
spectator:
Yeah, you’re right. I’m obviously having a melancholy moment.
#2050 jenauthor,
attn TSOP,
Personally I prefered the Venus avatar myself being an astronomy fanboi
She is. Very presidential too.
Now if only she can get better salesmen and slightly more audacious policy advisers.
TSOP
Just stirring your pot Pebbles like you say this has beena bit dull on the political front after all the recent excitement
Gillard’s birthday is the 29th
Diog, you are a real bludger. no wonder this country is going down the tube
The 29th is a sitting day, I believe.
TSOP
And according to the OO today she doesn’t carry a handbag. Isn’t that exciting news.
and to use another word from the days of Jane Austen so stoic,
Julia’s policies are different, her ways, are different but her determination will similar to
Thatcher.
I remember how Thatcher would put the media in their place, that has just come back to me, the one liners.
Hehehe. It was really great, last evening. At one point, we had Venus, Mars and Spica forming a triangle in one side of the sky, with Saturn just hovering over the horizon and, on the other side of the sky, Jupiter watching over them. Was just lovely. Of course it’s cloudy here tonight.
I’m into astronomical pix too Mick — but I was more thinking of causing a reaction in TTH and others of his ilk.
cuppla things
the greens are going to take the msm on
its in their interest to do it
The real argument is about process not result- afew of the harpies are already trying to cover their smears
bad luck crabby toolman et al
So will the ALP front bench be parcelling up a nice new present (in parliament ) for her to enjoy on the 29th?
She doesn’t??? Lesbian! Right! I’m voting Abbott next time!!!
I like jenauthor’s avatar. Is that the great Ramesses?
#2074 TSOP,
Fantastic! I am stuck in urban China until Febuary next year, I cant wait to get back to clear skies and of course my telescopes.
According to the OO, Tim is her handbag.
Well thats the revelation of the day, my goodness me.
You know i dont think our Princess Mary does either.
Handkerchief in the pocket, glasses ( some any way) around the neck. why would you.
Handbags are for shopping.
TSOP
i’m so glad I found this blog about four weeks ago. You have given me a lot of laughter with your great wit, and intellect.
Good evening all.
Can anybody recommend a suitable condiment for deep-fried fedora?
William
Because he basically ran as an independent?
I note that the meeting is described on the Liberal Party web site as the “Liberal Party Room meeting” – not Coalition
(BTW, looks like Natasha Griggs of the CLP, Solomon, is sitting in the Liberal Party)
So is there any solid evidence, either way, that the Liberals and Nationals intend to continue the coalition?
we are glad you found us allso,
Thank you.
This place is addictive. A lot of good souls wonder here.
Re the Handbags article,
It is times like this i am glad we still have the OO, I wasn’t enjoying it as nearly as much when it was the GG.
Mmmmm…I smell Twiggy’s influence on Oakshott.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/rob-oakeshott-and-wayne-swan-collide-on-mining-tax/story-fn59niix-1225916141507
Oh you mean to say I missed the great handbag scandal, geez stupis me taking a day of this blog to get such vital news!
TSOP
I do wonder about you sometimes
Julia Gillard better makes sure the NBN is properly executed and implemented. She should have two “Ministers” overseeing this project.
One with admin & technical skills to execute and implement the project. The other with PR and people skills to sell the project to the punters, stakeholders and trouble shoot.
Else she is FARQ just like the ETS.
On the split Liberal Party and National party votes (eg respective leaderships etc.) where do the LNP members sit?
Thats you and me to a tee
well i notice Dr. Bogan has just arrived and others as well, you will probably be all chattering, when i wake up and cannot sleep about 2 am , which happened this morning then big pond went down, .
so night all i think these last few weeks have drained me of all my energy. Most of the time now i just read, run out of things to say,
LNP members sit on their mouths and talk out their …
Geez, Liberal MPs get asked some tough questions from media. Julie Bishop would still be smarting from this opening gambit from Leigh Sales early last week:
And I’ve just heard Joe Hockey suffer the following impertinence at a parliamentary doorstop interview:
Gus baby, which is which? i carry the handbag?
In a previous job at SGI I was involved with display system engineering at the Beijing planetarium, if you haven’t seen it and need a fix it’s pretty impressive…for a fake sky anyway.
My Say
I might add that it was a great comfort also, during the dark days of the past few weeks. Have enjoyed reading everyone’s posts. Have stayed up long into the night and morning when I couldn’t sleep because of worry.
Yeah, that one was a real doozy William – any idea who the journo was?
Any news on who’s on lateline yet?
I know. Day one of handbaggate, and so far no word from Gillard or her spokespeople. How this will affect the polls, we are yet to see. However, most analysts here at Sky News think that the government will be moving into damage control.
We have just contacted Wayne Swan’s office to ask if there is a leadership challenge brewing. His office has replied with “No. Of course not.” What that means is anyone’s guess. We’ll keep you updated and informed as events unfold.
Now for commentary on this shocking scandal, here’s Graeme Morris…
is this the same story as two days ago , or has been refreshed, i think wayne just should ignore it.
TSOP
I can see the Headlines now “Swan denies trying to grasp the handbag”
It was rehashed today although the speak is different. It is now a hurdle instead of a crack.
hurry up pebbles, tell me your being silly i need a good sleep.
Meh, some Liberal or two.
This LV handbag will go well with Jules
http://groundmart.net/images/lv-bag-azur-berkeley.jpg
i thought i heard wtte that Mr. Windsor more or less said, it was a beat up.
My say
Our mission is to keep you up
Yes, I am being silly. I have a little faith in our system that the mass media won’t go after her like that over not carrying a handbag…
…I hope.
The ALP, Greens and indies should take a leaf out of Fijis no nonsense attitude towards foreign ownership of media when it banned foreign media ownership.
The problem being of course is that Stephen Smith has come out publically denouncing Fijis hard lines.
Stephen Smith and the ALP should take a step back and have a think about what they are saying.
Banning foreign ownership does not block freedom of speech, Murdock and his Myrmidons would be free to write as many op-eds as they like for the Fiji media with the only hurdle being that, just like we want to write to a bolta blog, it may just not get printed.
Murdock and his Myrmidons are not going to go easy on the government just because Smith is pandering to him over Fiji. They will continue to trash the government without respite.
After reading OPT’s links to the phone hacking in the UK Murdocks foreign ownership of any australian media should be banned purely on the grounds that, as a foreigner who is paying out millions in out of court settlements because of the unbecoming conduct of his news organisations and employees, he is not a fit and proper person to own media in Australia.
Same as Fiji if he wants to he can write op-eds for any Australian owned media who will have the opportunity to either bin it or print it.
That will give him the same freedom of speech as we all get trying to write letters to his media, some get published, most do not.
I am sure Bill Bowe will let him have some space on this blog if he desires.
It is time to take the gloves off and move forward with some real action in the media circles.
http://australianetworknews.com/stories/201006/2939455.htm?desktop
TSOP
“Designated” LNP Nationals are
In HoR
?The Hon. Warren Truss MP/Wide Bay
?Mr Paul Neville MP/Hinkler
?The Hon. Bruce Scott MP/Maranoa
?Mr George Christensen/Dawson
?Mr Ken O’Dowd/Flynn
In passing, I note Nationals claim Crook as well
In the Senate, Joyce and Boswell
http://www.nationals.org.au/OurTeam/TheNationalsParliamentaryTeam.aspx
my say
the msm is conflating two issues
the mrrt (rspt) and royalties
I suspect abit of sillybuggers by the MSM till the tax is bedded down
ps Senator Ludlum (greens) is cordinating the ABC/msm thingy
send him an email
Thanks for the clarification, Laocoon. Wasn’t sure how the internal politics of the federal LNP would work. Thank you.
Good. He’s a competent Green as opposed to a media tart Green. Something might come of it if he’s marshalling the effort.
I’m surprised they aren’t second guessing where she keeps her accoutements.
Me too — peeved my OH that I stayed up till all hours seeking solace from like-minded people. Just so RELIEVED that we can now talk about inconsequential things like Tony’s font bench and the media’s really NASTY tough questions to the Coalition.
Whoops! That should have been ‘accoutrements’.
fessions
the truce has a lot of beneficial side effects
Who would have thought we’d have a situation where a bunch of labor voters were trying to persuade a tory about the benefits of orthodox economics? We must be in 1983…
Speaking of the Nationals, any possibility of Joyce challenging Truss?
Did Nationals have a leadership spill?
confessions
what thingy is that?
Re the NBN, IF (and on past performance it is a big if) the ALP sell it properly, it could do really well for them on 2 fronts.
One is the regions , already discussed here.
The other area is big business.
An example is our friends the mining companies.
In the next 5 to 10 years they plan to switch to remote management of mines, particularly those in the north west.
Apart from mechanics and technicians to maintain the equipment , all other staff would work remotely, e.g. From an office in Perth using high speed links.
How much is an NBN worth to them?
This would save them a lot of money and make it easier to hire workers.
Gus: I’m reserving judgement in order to see how it plays out.
Impressive! I wonder how other political parties around the world can claim that more than half their parliamentary members (if you ignore Crook) are over 60!
George
My recollection about the traffic light coalition was that Sloppy said it first and then it was repeated back to him in a question – such class in MSM -
jenauthor
May be able to continue to do this for a long time to come.
TSOP
Does anyone??
fessions
I am hoping it is but one of the thousand cuts
Oh, the Footy Show is p***ed off because of the election result. Without the Rabbott, Manly won’t get it’s new oval.
John Reidy @2125 that’s only one small element of NBN. The impact on business/education/science into the future is like a key to a door. Without it we will be a second-rate economy. It is vital to the decades ahead.
Dr Bogan:
Greens are muscling up to the MSM. Some are of the view this might have spin off benefits for Labor.
Well if they’re french Dee, we know where she’d keep them!
Can see the scandal now. Day two of handbaggate will dawn with “informed” (hah) speculation by the commentariat that its the Protective Services guys who follow her around and that this is an expression of her lax attitude to national security and so we must have Tony as PM now or we’ll all be roooooooned……………
Boo-fing-hoo – about time we started realising that there’s a lot more important stuff to fund in this country than sports stadiums for boofheads!
For those worried about Wilson Tuckey’s post-parliamentary life: relax, he is the ultimate multi-skiller. I have seen him guide jets to their parking areas at Carnarvon airport, then drive the passengers into town on the shuttle bus. He has served me a beer and booked me a room at Tuckey’s Port Hotel, Carnarvon, then presided over local council meetings as the town’s Mayor.
He survived for so long as the Member for O’Connor because in person he is, actually, a very charming and charismatic man -in a similarly reptilian way to Heffernan and Abbott- and he always told his constituents what they wanted to hear.
I am sure Wilson will find some way to occupy himself, once he has finished vomiting.
And it wasn’t an iron bar, BTW, it was an iron pipe.
Gus: I hope so too, but I’m too cynical to think they’ll have any success. I hope I’m wrong.
Rod Hagen
The Nationals have moved with the times. I just saw one of their pressers:
2PP Update:
Labor now on 50.10!
fessions
like a hornets nest
we will sting and sting and sting
funnily enough the G’s have had the wrong end of the pineapple for much longer
redemption thy name is legislation
Ah, so these are all the friends of Rabbott.
http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2010/09/09/Tony-Abbotts-remarks-to-the-Liberal-Party-Room-meeting.aspx
George @2137
Sports stadiums was the initial reason for Alexander to try for Bennelong supposedly!!
It serves Manly right(the NRL team) for letting themselves be run by Abbott & a bunch of Liberals.
Which says it all, doesn’t it *facepalm*
I agree George @2133, I was just picking the most counter intuitive case – mining companies.
george@2137
Didn’t they on the same program Julia was on were praising Labor over funding to another Oval in Grayndler (Ablo’s electorate) ?
Ozy:
Okay, I’ll accept my sympathies were wrongly placed.
I don’t like to see people upset, but perhaps I should make an exception for wilson.
Modern day Gladiator ring. Keep them entertained & ignorant.
Seen this?
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/09/09/the-australian-announces-that-it-wants-to-destroy-the-greens/
From Pure Poison
Until today, I’d never seen a national broadsheet with pretensions to fair and balanced reporting actually admit that it wasn’t just biased against a party supported by 14% of the country, it wanted to “destroy” it. But that’s just what The Australian did in its editorial today:
“Greens leader Bob Brown has accused The Australian of trying to wreck the alliance between the Greens and Labor. We wear Senator Brown’s criticism with pride. We believe he and his Green colleagues are hypocrites; that they are bad for the nation; and that they should be destroyed at the ballot box. The Greens voted against Mr Rudd’s emissions trading scheme because they wanted a tougher regime, then used the lack of action on climate change to damage Labor at the election. Their flakey economics should have no place in the national debate.”
.
fredex
yup
they have made a big boo boo
the OO just dealt the best evidence yet of BIAS
Frank
Yes they were, and they had a pre recorded interview between Fatty and Julia on the Thursday night before the election. After it was finished and they went back live to Fatty Vautin he forgot her name and Peter Stirling was laughing at him and was embarrassed.
Tone is still the local member for Warrigah. If he felt so strongly about the oval, why isn’t he prepared to push for it, even though he’s opposition? Seems like a fair weather local MP, just like my mother said.
Frank, I’m a complete troglodite when it comes to sports – don’t follow a footy team, don’t watch the olympics and couldn’t watch more than 10 seconds of cricket without reaching for a rusty stanly knife.
I certainly don’t watch the “footy shows” – gawed no!
Sports stadiums are now a staple promise for Liberal campaigns, as it gets all the bogans with 5 braincells in their heads to all go to the Liberal camp. I saw it happen in the state election. Plenty of men opted to vote against their own economic interests, in return for the possibly empty promise of a new sports stadium.
generous
Thanks My Say, you are a trooper, love this blog.
Well, well, well!
If they smash the Greens where do they think their voters are going to go? Certainly not to the Coalition.
Or is this a case of divide & conquer by The Australian?
Destroy the government by any means possible.
The only reason I watched this one was because Julia was on it. Much rather watch the AFL one but it doesn’t come on here until about 11.30pm.
I rest me case yer lordship
Unfortunately my OH does at very high volume. YUK !
Tone’s pushing for the oval upgrade would fit well with his irrational push reported in Costello’s book about wanting to put all electricity wires in his electorate underground when he was a cabinet minister!!
Right dingbat!!
George
It was disgraceful actually. How could he not remember her name. After all she is only the PM.
I noticed Brown getting stuck into MSM enjoyed him on that too, Labor’s been a bit more feisty towards the journo rubbish too
And Fatty’s a ranga!
The television media were all over Wyatt Roy today – I wonder how he’ll go as a 20 year old MP?
Well, it’s to bed for me & dreams of a News Ltd. corporation crash.
Latest from Grog:
http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-world-and-old-sigh.html
Isn’t fear intriguing!
“We wear Senator Brown’s criticism with pride.”
“We believe he and his Green colleagues are hypocrites; that they are bad for the nation; and that they should be destroyed at the ballot box.”
Wilson’s karma finally arrived – how long before we see some for OO!
I think that vexnews.com has more credibility than The Australian.
evan14
I would answer you but William has told us that are to be no further commments in relation to a particular matter relating to Roy.
HA HA
I liked the serve that Brown gave to the Liberals today(and by association, their media allies).
The attitude of her majesty’s opposition obviously won’t be constructive nor helpful to the operation of this new parliament, particularly as most of Abbott’s troops still think that they won the election & they was robbed by those 2 Labor stooges posing as country independents.
Frank, thanks for Grog’s link.
not surprising
Blackdog
puberty?
And so you should. VexNews doesn’t pretend to be anything other than what it is. And it breaks almost as many real stories.
Gus
No weren’t you here for the argument several hours. It involved the guy he beat.
I am trying to catch up; what is this ‘handbag-gate’?
A matter that has nothing to do with what evan14 said.
Blackd
OK
William
I apologise.
Puff
There was a story in OO saying that Julia doesn’t carry a handbag. Riveting stuff isn’t it.
Puff
on the farm the only gate was-
shut the bloody gate
Puff:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/julia-enjoys-the-high-life-free-of-old-bags/story-e6frg6nf-1225916057081
Hi Puff the OO had a big story on how the Ranga doesn’t carry a handbag.
Didn’t Thatcher always carry a particularly oversized handbag with bricks in it?
From grogs blog.
http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-world-and-old-sigh.html
This is what stuck me the most about the press galleries response to Oakeshott’s speech,as a collective group they seemed to have the attention span of a flee.
No, that was the cranium.
The Murdoch press said much the same about the Democrats in many editorials I read in the Australian and here, in the Adelaide Advertiser, when the Democrats were at their height, under Haines, Coulter, Powell, Kernot, Lees and Natasha.
After the last Democrat MP in any parliament in Australia resigned to go Independent last year, the Advertiser then wrote a very wistful editorial bidding a regretful adieu to the Democrats.
So, now the Greens have inherited the title of the most evil party in Australia according to Murdoch’s minions, they must have something going for them.
Lateline on over there in the East yet?
Oh for heavens sake, handbags???? With not-so-veiled references to Julia’s child-free status.?
LL on party room meetings
Puff, it’s the biggest scandal to rock Canberra for years! Get this: Julia Gillard, despite being a woman, does not carry a handbag!
just started
the usual fib five minutes
I carry a backpack and I am doomed?, whoa,
Steve thanks keep me informed it’s not on until later here & I’d quite like to call it quits earlier to curl up with an old fashioned novel.
The handbag seems to be a MSM metaphor for uterus
Oh no just realised I don’t have a handbag either good grief the shame of it
Next up, does her partner, Tim carry a *manbag*??
Stay tuned
‘Real women’ must carry a handbag but if she did there would be endless analysis of it’s fashion cachet, taste and cost
And the bigger and more expensive you have, the more woman you are.
vivi
And the lobe length of course ;-0
Is it Fibs only on LL?
You should watch it Dr B, otherwise you’ll miss a rare shot of the beloved Bronnie Bishop
“Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air”
Err, sorry to take you to task Pebbles but the ALP in SA are promising over half a billion (but will be much more) for an upgrade to Adelaide Oval which is being heavily backed by the brainless sports scribes in this fair city but not apparently by the majority of the public in SA according to an Advertiser poll which they neglected to release – forcing them to redo the poll asking which type of stadium did people prefer.
Yes, I know the Libs here support a stadium too – it seems both major parties were trying to outdo each other to spend our money to bring the SA Cricket Association out of debt and destroy the north parklands.
Stopped in before bedtime after a good night with friends (Labor for a change) and found this
Gor blimey, what’s William doing criticising the media. That’s our job isn’t it?!!
Hockey himself was the one who gave the little darlings the ‘traffic light’ line this morning with a big smirk all over his face. Yesterday it was rainbow coalition but today it’s ‘traffic light’. I wonder what he will come up with tomorrow.
george-hopefully not the Polanski version with old naked witches
george well that settles it the how could I miss Brownie?
I have a tough satchel thingy which for some reason has a bullet-proof kevlar patch on the front. If I want, can fit a notebook pc in it. Apparently costs hundreds new, $15 at the Salvos.
They’re a stable promise for both sides. – every town has a sporting oval that could do with an upgraded grandstand.
Well tough titties, OO!! We’re bigger than ever, and coming to GET YA!
I expect we’ll dominate Senate BOP for the next 12 years at least, incidentally, so get used to it.
Incidentally, you can believe how gratifying your attack is.
‘First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you. And then you win.’ Gandhi.
I think we just graduated to stage 3.
They did have a quote from Crean about Labor needing to sell its message better. Quickly to some bookburning Florida pastor who wants to burn Korans on 9/11.
Oh God no, I remember seeing that in High School and it put me off witches for life.
Seeing as Manly-Warringah is the most hated football team in the NRL (unless you live in the silver-tail triangle Manly-Terry Hills-Palm Beach) why would anyone be upset if the$10M does not come to Brookvale Oval?
At present there are signs all around Brookvale Oval saying “Save Our Hill”, “No Grandstand”, etc., etc.
Of greater importance is that a level 5 hospital has been promised at Frenchs Forest since forever, but the local member (Tony) has not ever made any noise about it.
p.s. I have one white eye & one maroon eye.
leftye
first we take manhattan
then we take berlin
viv, thanks for that visual – I need some sandpaper for my eyes…
steve;
Yep heard the loonies were at it again in the US
I got quite fond of Katter’s old beaten up brown leather bag.
TSOP, its stories like this that make you reflect: It must be bloody tiresome being a female senior pollie and having to deal with idiots and knuckle-draggers 24/7.
Doc, time to pick up the book and kick the TV. Worst LL in years.
Please not on here too, it would not be an issue if everyone just ignored him. It would just be utube vid number 134^1000. Look, now even I am commenting on this beat-up. William please, please ban this topic.
Something about pies.
Unfortunately, at this election, fleas and gnats would be an apt description of our press gallery.
They switched off every time a policy announcement was longer than 3 words each only a single syllable. Why do you think ‘Stop the Boats’ and ‘End the Waste’ worked so well? ‘Stand up for real action’ died because it as 5 words.
This also why Labor’s policies were lost — they extended to sentences with multi-syllabic words at time — completely beyond the press corp.
IT
joe is going to eat his words?
IT, the Adelaide oval upgrade was a response to the Libs promise backed by the Advertiser to build a new stadium. The state government did not want to build a new stadium yet, as it saw other infrastructure as a priority. It was only the relentless campaigning turning it into a winning issue for the Libs which caused the ALP to pursue the oval upgrade policy.
I just can’t imagine how I’ll be able to vote for Jules again, I mean really no handbag, let’s start a rumour about the Wabbit’s man bag
It’s just the lead up, tomorrow the revelation that Tim carries a manbag, with product in it…..
Rainbow lights Coalition traffic.
“Traffic light coalition” is often used in German politics to describe coalitions between the Social Democrats (red), the classical liberal Free Democrats (yellow) and the Greens (self-explanatory).
I’ve noted this before, how the PM is referred to in the MSM and by the opposition in particular.
FWIW I sometimes refer to Gillard as Jools as a piss take of Tone who in the campaign always referred to her as Julia, or Julia Gillard, but never Ms Gillard or the Prime Minister.
And I refer to Abbott as Tone as a) a piss take of the MSM who keep banging on about how authentic and real the man’s supposed to be, and b) as a de-legitimizing strategy because I don’t think he’s worthy to be leader of the Liberal party.
Isn’t Vexnews the wikipedia of news… that is… anyone can invent any rumour they heard down the pub as a valid news source
William
I think Joe meant
Stop
Go
as opposed to your explanation
Traffic light coalition is not an original expression. It started in Germany and was last used in the UK after their election:
Abbott also borrowed David Cameron’s ‘no sleep in the last 36 hours of the campaign’ garbage from the UK election.
snap William
No, we’ve seen enough of that in the campaign!
Watching The Goodies on ABC2. Funny how the same issues they were sending up then are still with us.
Only when he runs out of pies.
so add plagiarism to the long-list of Fibs sins
Joe couldn’t even get that right; who is the yellow party?
Where did this Joe and pies thing come from?
TSOP
you got my double entendre!
Diog, sorry to be late in replying. Went off to be transfixed by the possibilities of nanotechnology and sky elevators and so forth. Yes, have encountered one case of confirmed Munchaussens by Proxy in my work. A number of small children dead, method varied but mostly similar. Ghastly business. It engendered huge debate between the Adult and Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists involved. The person at the centre of the furore was actually charged by the police and convicted on a number of offences. Didn’t stop dissembling to the end.
Re Sullivan and the father – my 2 cents worth
I’m the mother of 2 teenage boys with Asperger’s Syndrome – part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder. We went to specialists both private and public and spent all the money and then some that we could on getting help for them.
My family’s reaction was the same as Sullivan’s – it just seemed inconceivable that you wouldn’t beg borrow or steal to get the diagnosis and treatment your child needs. His story rang false to us right from the start.
Sullivan should have been more diplomatic but I think he was saying what a lot of parents of children with a disability were thinking.
Yellow = Wilkie double cross & cowardly Undies
further
joe said on PM? that the wtte
the gillard Gvt was a stop/go one- the greens would determine the running..
2229
Using it in the context of the current situation it seems that he is describing Windsor and Oakeshott as yellow. What is Hockey`s basis for doing this?
We won`t have talk of Germans other colour descriptive coalition, the Jamaica Coalition (CDU/FDP/Green).
The Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull party used an awful lot of yellow during the election, hardly any red or blue
I thought Julie Bishop invented plagiarism.
Pebbles
You are right in the facts you quote, but that doesn’t excuse the ALP jumping on the bandwagon and then driving it. I know Mr Rann is chummy with Melvin Mansell but I didn’t think the SA ALP is the political action department of The Advertiser.
jenauthor – you’re right there. I haven’t got a clue what Abbott’s policies were apart from PPL but the slogans became imbedded. The Howard mob trained the media well over their long term in office.
Steve
mesma made them available to the masses,regularly
Pebbles – Labor in SA has been promoting stadiums/ia? for some time – $100m upgrade of Football Park, Soccer World Cup upgrade etc. Why us tax payers would put money to help AFL and cricket – by far the wealthiest sproting codes, is a mystery.
The indies that supported Gillard are “yellow” – by not just voting the way their electorates would normally vote in the 2PP sense, they’re being cowards.
Wilkie is being a coward by not being manly enough to support Abbott. I mean, Abbott apologised to Wilkie for all the grief he gave and offered a $1 Billion hospital. What more does the little crybaby want?
Tried scrolling thru tonites posts and Sullivan of Longman fame arose from ashs , again
Amazing how a Polly in this case Sullivan , can be both rite and wrong at th same time
I heard this bit , a set up , aggressive Liberal stooge on National radio anti labor message But Sullivans response was dumb , & made him look uncompassionate which he isn’t
Why dont pollys think like ordinary people and say i’ve never heard of a child having to wait 2 years for a specialist before , but i’ll get your details afterwards and assist you
Where are all the boats anyhow?
mea culpa pica
What’s funny is that vexnews is much more entertaining than The Australian (mostly for the wrong reasons).
LL:
Turnbull looked so happy, not
Stopped by a series of Liberal ads apparently.
Ron – spot on. Pollies getting out of control abusing people is no credit to them.
Of course it doesn’t. The worst part is the dodginess around the facts of how much the upgrade will cost and the suppression thereof has really hurt Labor dearly here. Foley has become poison to the party now and if they want to have any hope in 2014 (or at least not lose by a huge margin) they need to start cleaning house. The government has become consumed by its own cynical politics.
Tone – suppresses vomit!
Indeed, Gus.
Incidentally, I dont like to skite, but since the Organ started it: just a reminder that TWAS I, none other than Lefty E, c/- Victorian Greens, who christened you the Government Gazette.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/24/sky-news-exit-poll-53-47/all-comments/#comment-100914
And Im glad HAHAAHAAAAAA!
Its only a shame my new suggested title after Rudd won didnt take off:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/24/sky-news-exit-poll-53-47/all-comments/#comment-100980
Though whoever thought of ‘Opposition Organ’ at the time, I salute you.
lets recap scores at this point:
Lefty E 1 – The Australian 0.
Senorita, finito. bueno sentimiento
Thanks William – I thought Joe had been up all last night making it up. After he said it he waited for the big laughs and questions and got a dorothy dixer from 2GB. Then he raved on about having to take panadol!! I’d given up listening at that stage so don’t know what that was about.
When I heard the Sullivan comment I thought it was reasonable because I couldn’t believe that a parent would wait 2 years for treatment. I would have been trying to bash down doors by that time or finding the money somehow. Then I heard Madonna King was involved in the forum and thought it might have been a setup.
Only problem for Sullivan was that the real story didn’t come out until after the election. Madonna King needs to answer some questions I think.
Pebbles 2261 – spot on.
Steve, apparently that will be argued over in a patent court. Someone else claims Bishop copied his invention.
I think we all sort of settled on OO after throwing around a lot of names but I can’t remember who it was who originally came up with it. It took on pretty quickly tho.
Finn, enseguida, con muy buen sentimiento (Right away,with very strong sentiment)
Mine
Yeah, I liked it as soon as I saw it.
The only issues I ever remember being brought up in The Goodies was how much torture it is listening to Rolf Harris singing.
Opposition Organ?
Oh, my mis-perception. I thought you said “Opposition Orifice”.
leftye
a jedi never takes credit
Last time I was in NSW The Nationals used Yellow as their party colour.
So -
Red= Labor
Yellow= Ind (ex-Nationals)
Green= Brown
One thing that strikes me and others might have said this previously … the new media and the independent media (like crikey and all the independent blogs) are growing at an exponential rate (sorry if any of the press gallery are reading this — will explain what exponential is for you at the bottom of this rant ;P ).
This means that once the mainstream press disappears behind its paywall they’ll cease to have such relevance. Those getting media on iPads, for instance, tend to flip pages even faster than the hard copies, so it is likely the effect will be lost even further.
3 years is a helluva long time in terms of technology, and I foresee the wave getting bigger and faster and those who aren’t tech savvy will be really left behind. That includes the part of the electorate that predominantly votes Coalition.
If Labor plays this well (and the relative ages of the ALP caucus/Lib Partyroom will be a factor) means that Labor will better use the fora available.
Now I know these are sweeping generalisations in some ways, but just look at the coalition’s inability to embrace the NBN. Any twit can see where the world is headed, yet they stick their collective heads in the sand because of the cost — something which is arguably a nonsense anyway.
This is why renewal was so important for the coalition, and it’ll be interesting to see if all the dinosaurs remain on the front bench — because if they do, the ‘new’ world will go by so quickly they won’t even notice!
closed
They were strange accusations when you’d think Bishop could have written easily on the topic.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/bishop-in-second-plagiarism-row-20081027-595c.html
Si Si, Senorita. This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. This is what i do in my spare time:
http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PYR/MPP50024-Dolphin-Trio-80mm.jpg
Meh. I’m a Wookie.
leftye
i knew that
Just reading through the 2007 election thread.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2007/11/24/federal-election-live/comment-page-2/#comments
2007 was the best election.
A wookie cop!
While I hope your optimism is right, I fear Bolta’s blog demonstrates that even those who can’t string a sentence together will still be with us.
Night all.
THH
One has to have some intelligence to see the irony and satire of that show. For example, the last bit in tonight’s episode was on asylum seekers landing in boats.
But I know, for some the message would go straight past.
In a fitting end to his career, Iron Bar goes out without a skerrick of grace:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/09/3007438.htm
Even from my hazy childhood memories I can recall episodes satirising apartheid and the cod war.
“Now I know these are sweeping generalisations in some ways, but just look at the coalition’s inability to embrace the NBN. Any twit can see where the world is headed, …”
6 pm news may end up via a diff source base than now , but its character wont change
still MSN bias , unless it becomes viables to get un biased competing ‘net news live I tink Net a la crikey types has failed , just brought committed tragics closer but to mass of peoples living there lives that Newspaper at Coles etc or TV 6 pm News is th go , but only as long as it doesn’t interfere too much with rest of there lives I’m sytill checking an net exposure alternitive
William
the cod war was a truly fishy tail
Response to ModLib’s comment from the Queensland thread:
You appear to be estimating anti-Labor swings of 8%, 9%, 16% and 11%, all of which are far too high. Preference flows from last time suggest 2% in New England and 7% in Kennedy, and Senate figures suggest about 2% in Lyne and 3% in O’Connor. So you’re short-changing Labor by about 40,000 votes.
These on the other hand are flattering to Labor, but not by as much. We know what the ordinary vote swings were from Grayndler and Batman, and from this we can surmise 24k from Grayndler and 34k from Batman. You’re also a few grand on the high side in Melbourne. So roughly speaking you’re giving Labor 15-20k too many.
It would be just like the Goodies to satirise the cod war.
Does anyone remember the ep where the mining machines/vehicles/went feral? And the pirate radio station that played nothing but ‘A walk in the Black Forest’?
Night!
2288
The South Africa one is quite funny. Haven`t seen the Cod War one (it is not one of the handful that has been released on video/DVD).
I remember it, thanks a barnarby billion.
Puff, the Magic Dragon.@2293
Yopu mean this classic episode ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8celEsW17E
Which puts us pretty much where we are at the moment after the swings and roundabouts?
Thats a great game
Yes, I’d say so Rod.
I wonder how you can count anti-Labor votes in places like Kennedy.
Does a vote for the independents count as a vote for Labor despite having one of the most conservative politicians in the country?
confessions @ 2282
A hard-fought & unexpected victory is always the sweetest …
Yeah, where are The Goodies when you really need ‘em? I wanna see Tony in a British flag vest, Julia drapped in the Aussie flag a la Pauline, but with a handbag in each paw, Wayne Swan with a basket of eggs in in his beak, labelled Treasury, RBA, Mining Tax. You know the sort of thing First Dog does with the interpretive ABC bandicoot? Makes sense to me.
I mispelt his name. Not sorry Barnaby.
It’s the same as the seat of Melbourne – where the vast majority voted Labor or Green and this is somewhat artificially turned into a Labor-Liberal TPP. Antony Green discusses this over on his blog – he said that in the unusual 1998 Queensland State Election the QEC did not bother doing a “state-wide” TPP.
One interesting example is the seat of O’Connor, where you would get a different result on Labor-National or Labor-Liberal (when the actual TCP contest was National-Liberal). Why do they do it? As Antony says, because all the media demand it, to compare results between seats and between elections.
Frank
Yes, that’s the one. Now we have pirate online content, prophetic weren’t they?
TTH, I suppose you’re referring to Bob Katter as one of the most conservative politicians in the country? Jeez, it’d make me laugh to witness an encounter between you and Bob.
Harry
What about Joe Hockey?
What makes you say that, he used to be my local member back in Charlies Trousers(Charters Towers)
Jeez, yeah well an encounter between Joe Hockey and TTH would be pretty funny as well, Puff
How surprisement – NOT.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/neutral-oakeshott-asked-labor-for-state-cabinet-seat/story-fn59niix-1225916807612
Ever met him, TTH? Had an extended convo with him?
And this:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wage-blowout-threat-to-nbn-rollout/story-fn59niix-1225916794348
Oh and a BER story as well.
Were there any ministry appointments today from Team Julia or Mr Rabbott and his mindless minions?
I think the LNP oppose the NBN on several related grounds. First, they have a purely doctrinal opposition to State ownership of business enterprises; second, they have a similar opposition to State-owned corporations competing against privately-owned business; third, they wish to limit – and if possible, reduce – the scope and range of activities in which the State may legitimately be engaged.
If this was the 19th century, the LNP would now be actively opposed to the Commonwealth becoming involved in rail transport, postal services and telecommunications. And in each case, they would be arguing about cost, alleging waste and crying about the public debt.
In the present day, they are trying to protect the commercial interests of privately owned communications and media businesses. Their motivation is not candidly expressed, but is beyond dispute. Having just recently accomplished the privatisation of Telstra, they will certainly resist the creation of a new Commonwealth-owned enterprise operating in the telecom/media market. This is an affront to everything the Liberals imagine is important.
re: the republic again, I think Queeny or Phil the Greek will kark it within 3 years from now, with that f@#$nuckle Mr Rabott as Opo leader, what Hope the republic to Come Up
They will try hard to take her down. I think she is tough enough.
centaur 900, I don’t believe anyone said anything about actual appointments today, apart from the meedja.
jenauthor @ 2050
I think that’s a great idea
And I’m definitely a Gillard-ist.
[How surprisement – NOT.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/neutral-oakeshott-asked-labor-for-state-cabinet-seat/story-fn59niix-1225916807612
Morris Iemma backstabs Federal Labor … yet again ….
The rat has been trying to undermine the government from Day 1 … like on the day after the election when he ranted to the media about Karl Bitar
No, a vote for the independent is counted for the LNP if they are higher in the preference order than the Labor, and vice-versa.
Can someone please tell the Australian that the election is all over. They lost
Found it
(Whatya know? The Goodies invented fish farms)
Lips. or Cod Almighty
http://www.viddler.com/explore/Mocksure/videos/10/
Could not have happened. Doesn’t fit their script.
Wong staying in Ministry, but moving to another role …
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gillard-asks-mps-to-name-wish-list-ahead-of-labor-reshuffle/story-fn59niix-1225916755889
Good to hear, She was OK.
Re Shorten
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gillard-asks-mps-to-name-wish-list-ahead-of-labor-reshuffle/story-fn59niix-1225916755889
Disability getting a ministry at Federal level would be HUGE.
Please, please let it be so (with Shorten as Minister.)
Shorten would be great.
Greg Combet is by far th most talented of Labor’s non senior ministers and deserves a senior role, hope its CC he is a guy that can manage , negotaite , and sell
With Combet as CC Minister , I see biggest stopper preventing a price on carbon thats Julia’s aim by 2012 is th 3 Undys and Greens guy Brandt I not only doubt all 4 of them could agree amongst themselves on a CC stanse , i doubt whether even 3 of these 4 could ie even before labors polisy is looked at
Labor should attmept via its new committee and 2 Assembys to get consensus , and if its lacking Lbor should put its own 5% ETS up in HoR with a mechanism to increase % if world agrees (as original also had)
This Bill of a 5% ETS should be CALLED “th 30% co2 reduction Bill between 2013 ans 2020″ , seeing thats what a 5% cut delivers to get back to 2000 levels
If its rejected by Undys or greens in HoR , or by Senate then Labor should seek a mandate on it next election , no backing off Let Greg Combet loose , he’ll procute it publicly very effectively
ps/ notice silence here by non labor peoples about th billion Julia has allocate for connection to electric grid from solar , geo thermal & wind enegy sources spread in oz that then shall feed direct into domestic and business enegy useage , wonder why
Morning! Anyone out there at this hour? Puff?
Dr B, good morning!
TSOP Good Morning I see the OO is in full OO mode this morning!
Dripping with antagonism to the govt that is
I would suggest that the OO is becoming a parody of itself, if it weren’t for the fact that they still wield a bit of influence.
vik, I love your avatar!
The way the OO is going with its free publicity for Oakshott campaign they will turn him into a huge well known identity capable of running a whole campaign to kill off the remnants of the National Party himself in a few years time.
Murdoch is losing his battle. They can’t go really hysterical because everyone would notice.
Pebbles, their influence seems to be more one of unethical, national laughing stock and a training prop for journalism students in how not to approach journalism really.
Yep, and the same thing was said of Fox News and clowns like Glen Beck and then, overnight, they became the voice of a counter-revolution. Trivialise the media hacks at your own peril.
grey, look at the circulation figures for the Australian, its biggest readership group is Pollbludgers and even that is falling steadily.
TSOP:
I’m working on a conference paper for mid-Sept, will drop in from time to time to keep you company in the deep of night
Morning Steve!
Morning Grey!
Morning Doc. My last day of work for two weeks and I am looking forward to the rest.
It would be nice if I didn’t get up early sometimes. This’ll catch up on me soon, and I’ll have 12 hour sleeps again. It’s strange.
Getting up this early is great in summer but horrid in winter/early spring.
Firstly, good morning!. The Australian, like The Advertiser here in SA is the rag that all the lazy journos read. It get’s around. 891 in the mornings here is an example. If it wasn’t for David Bevan I would be really depressed.Matt Abraham is not impressive recently. A little passive. He wouldn’t have anything to say if he didn’t read it first.
Morning All
I wonder if this generous package will get a mention at The Australian.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/no-sale-abbotts-enormous-deal-the-independents-rejected-20100909-153am.html
TSOP
Yes great in Summer less so in winter!
And If you are lurking ABC radio guys, I know where there are 2 coco mugs. Tickera.
Ah senorita, manha da carnaval?
Morning all – bad all year if the old ‘Arthur’ calls and says get up and move!! the garden’s great at 5am in summer tho.
Watched Cheryl Kernot and Bruce Baird on Skye yesterday. They were saying that Joe Hockey will be the leader after Abbott because he is such a ‘hail and well met’ fellow. I reckon he’s becoming more like a desperate clown every day.
I have the Goodies’ box set, and my boys are sensible enough to adore it!
Unfortunately, it doesn’t have my favorite episode (or the Cod one, which features a segment on how to make fish angry) which was where the Goodies form a puppet government.
From memory, members of that government included Lucy and Dougall from the Magic Roundabout.
Some interesting letters in the SMH today – a nice change from the OO
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/support-of-76-mps-makes-government-legitimate-20100909-15334.html
Dougal was the best, some of my childhood was spent looking for his legs.Great mover.
TSOP
Si manha de carnival (cafe) And I see it is the SA club dominating PB this morning, guts of conference paper is done now just the ornamentation with pics etc. to finish off.
O likely to announce re Ministry Ragional Affairs today
oops regional
Is Oakeshot gonna accept it? Will be interesting to see. Seriously, he has been the most pleasant surprise out of this entire experience.
Senorita, it must be the double shot latte cafe
Dr Bogan
What is your academic area?
The character assassination of of Rob Oakeshott has begun, led by? Surprise, surprise, The OO:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/neutral-oakeshott-asked-labor-for-state-cabinet-seat/story-fn59niix-1225916807612
Am I the only one who has noticed that the turd media loved the Greens when the conventional wisdom was that they’d be a thorn in Labor’s side, but as soon as Brown and Gillard demonstrated there is no mutual acrimony and they’ll be able to work together, the Greens are now “dangerous extremists”
The coalition costings had the credibility of a Nigerian email, hey speaking of emails!
He’s an extremely pleasant bloke to meet, too but I’m worried about the slander that’s going on. What one earth is Iemma doing in talking to the press about him. I could never stand Iemma as Premier and I’m thinking a lot less of him now after his outbursts against Labor during the campaign.
It’s interesting that once the Labor blokes leave Parliament and become entrenched in the business world they have to open their big mouths and act like tarts against their own side. We’ve had Richardson, Costa, Iemma, Latham, Beattie (the worst of all) and Bob Carr. Only Fraser and Hewson make comments about the Libs. One was brave enough to leave the Party and the other only mildly says anything against it. I’d like to put the Labor blokes in a bag and dump them somewhere nasty.
Johnny Development Studies with a Latin American Politics focus, Indigenous people in Oaxaca, Mexico at the moment which is what I’ve been doing this morning.
Castle re Fibs costing you got it!
O also has a brilliant web site
I like Michael Farnsworth’s tweets –
http://twitter.com/mfarnsworth
TSOP @2362
They are going to try, Donald Horne described it as “Vendetta Journalism”, that was in 1975, same old. He was a liberal before that.
That sounds really cool.
And Latin America is definitely a worthy focus of developmental studies.
I blame Cortés!
A nice comment to start the day from a journo (obviously non Murdoch)
and things might be looking up as more and more are complaining about the media -
Here’s a prime example of below-the-belt mainstream journalism. Memo to ACMA & MEAA: clean up your industry! http://bit.ly/ayJ6jG about 16 hours ago via web
http://twitter.com/seearjay
I hated Iemma as Premier. I thought him a horrible conservative premier and was glad to see the back end of him. If he was going against anyone but Debnam back in 2007, I would’ve wanted him gone. It annoys me that a lot of leftists out there were revising history to make Iemma out as some progressive idealist, simply because he spoke out against the Labor Party.
Yes it’s good to see press getting some stick.
TSOP: Cortes has a lot to answer for!
Johnn article to be published later this year if you’re interested , find me on CDS web site at one of the unis here in SA (clue try G.P)
I don’t know if Dio is about but Xanthippe put me onto some excellent sources re: dubious scientific research in the health industry, being corrupted by private money. Manufacturing Doubt by Michaels is a good read, as is the Healthy Skepticism website.
http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/
I have found it staggering the sheer volume of questionable “research” in health areas, much of which seems to be little more than thinly disguised marketing for new products. Between this area and the OO in politics, I find it quite remarkable to realise just how many people have a full time job of manipulating opinions in a false and mislaeading way, who do not actually work in the advertising industry or political offices.
After this and reflecting on the election campaign, there really is a huge need for media reform in this country. The abuse of media to distort policy against the public interest is quite out of control. No wonder Americans don’t know what to believe, with their situation even worse.
TSOP –
me too – his vision wouldn’t fit on a match head and I was disappointed that he won that election. It was all smoke and mirrors but the silly Libs didn’t have the nous to run good candidates or a good campaign. Iemma was a do nothing person and I don’t want to hear from him now. It’s pretty small minded to be leaking stories about Oakeshott when he knows every word will be used negatively by the Opposition.
2PP now has Labor 23,437 ahead.
Castle, I love this line of yours
I hope it’s picked up and used by the government. I’m sure Kev can iron out any creases it might create through the normal diplomatic channels.
Soc
a friend of mine (a double doctor) lectures on fraudulent research reporting, using examples from his time as a peer reviewer.
He argues that only 1 in 20 medical papers come to reliable conclusions.
His argument goes that, given the number of research programs happening in the world at any one time, it is likely that at least 20 teams are working on the same problem.
If one comes to the expected conclusion and publishes, and the other nineteen don’t, then this suggests that the one is actually wrong.
He further argues that the pressure to publish (because scientists are judged by the number of papers produced) means that there is pressure to ‘adjust’ data and gives several examples of papers submitted to him where this had happened (lines left off graphs, readings adjusted to fit a pattern, etc).
Dr B 2365
Very interesting material. Hope the paper goes well.
Dr B
Thanks for the tip. I’ll have a look for it. I’m in economics up here in QLD.
Apart from its partisan crusade against the Greens, the Murdoch stable is also going full-on to smear the independents, on the basis of nothing at all. The paper has decided Oakeshott is now responsible for waste and mismanagement – just like that! If you didn’t see it, you wouldn’t believe it.:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ber-hall-so-small-it-cant-hold-39-kids/story-fn59niix-1225916807499
What a laugh. He isn’t a judge. He can be as impartial or prejudiced in his decision as he wants. The Australian really has spat the dummy.
Zoomster
I can’t comment on the 1 in 20 but certainly Xanthippe would have a similar view of the pressure to publish and willingness to use biased samples. She also gives lectures in health ethics and warns of the difficuty in finding impartial research. She is trying to ensure that our (future) health professionals will have some critical thinking skills.
It is an aweful conundrum though, because on the one hand we need to have healthy skeptics aware that research can be false, and on the other hand we have another group of dissemblers using skeptical arguments trying to raise doubt about areas like tobacco and climate change research. Another book “Doubt is their Product”, talks about this exacctly opposite, yet equally dangerous trend.
Soc
the other pressure is, of course, the need for funding.
Go down too many dead end alleys and, however impeccable the research which led you there (or indeed, the importance of your ‘nil’ result) neither University boards or private sponsors are going to keep paying.
Ok Johnny I’ll have a look later. I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to find & email me if you wish.
Yep “publish and, or Perish” tis the academic game (aka Academic wank)
The OO really is full of brown substance today
Yes the media have had one of the worst elections ever and before the election on of the aggressive against Labor. Their reporting on the campaign was a botched and patchy, but Labor has to look at itself and realise that going to election 1month after getting rid of a PM and not explaining what “lost his way” meant and how she differed from him, it was stupid.
If you look back to when the spill happened the comments here were to the effect that it was wrong. Gillard will make a great PM she has the brains and the communication skills when she fronts the press. But Labor really need to fix up their every day communications. They need to rebutt the silly comments and cut them off at the root, not let them grow.
I’ve yet to see that they’ve learned that lesson, as of this morning, no comment on the illegitimate government and they haven’t come out in defence of Oakshott or Windsor.
We need to look to our mistakes and learn from them and Labor needs some tough love not fake praise.
What’s the deal with The Australian and its front page photograph’s. It always features in a large photograph, a person or persons related to the story, looking oh so serious and concerned. It really does make me want to throw up. It is so contrived.
Why is Murdoch in newspapers? Do they make money? Is it the sense of control ? If it is to make money, why does he alienate 50% of his potential readership to the extent that many of that 50% won’t buy his papers? Any thoughts?
dogma
Yes, Gillard went too soon. She had the perfect argument for a late election – if she’d said March 2011, for example, she could have argued that she needed time to turn things around.
As it was, we had difficulty getting troops on the ground, partly due to resentment about Rudd. Interestingly, a couple of the disaffected members got back on board in the last week, suggesting that – given more time – we would have won more back.
Loss of troops on the ground leads to lack of booth coverage, and that costs votes.
Zoomster 2383
Sadly yes, funding pressures are a huge issue too. That even affects my own area (transport). There is very little money out there to fund post hoc investigations of the effectiveness of governemtn funded transport projects. For example, there is an obvious need to investigate the planning and modelling that went into toll forecasts for the Sydney Cross City Tunnel, Lane Cove Tunnel and Clem7 in Brisbane. All three have badly underperformed, over $3 billion has been written off, and they have technical aspects in common, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for any government to want an investigation of those processes.
[2347 Johnny Button
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 6:23 am | Permalink
Morning All
I wonder if this generous package will get a mention at The Australian.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/no-sale-abbotts-enormous-deal-the-independents-rejected-20100909-153am.html
Johnny hope you dont mind me re posting this as a good read.
This morning’s OO’s front page is a sight to behold.
I just hope that the government, the Greens and the indies come out fighting.
This garbage must be called out for what it is as it happens.
Will there be press conference this morning? Like to see labor and Julia give them a whack. Can’t happen soon enough for me.
Combet for Cabinet as Climate Minister
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/pm-eyes-combet-for-climate-20100909-15374.html
Off to work, have an Abbott-free day everyone
BK. Snap.
RNM1953
Have a read of Mr Denmore’s blog http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2010/09/kin-in-game.html. He is a old journo and reckons that its all about volumn of hits, so the more controversial the article the more hits the more revenue.
Every time a PB’er links to a OO article your actually helping them with the revenue.
bk
you wonder if the press will kill its self in the long run
Thx Zoomer, I beleive that given time she would have made her PM’ship everyday normal thing in the eyes of the voters, but some smuck said look at your honeymoon numbers go now. People were still getting their heads around having a different PM, still checking her out.
They not gettin out there with rebuttal and plans. Silence is deadly.
I hit the OO vary rarely but have gone back to reading the SMH for Coorey and Taylor and a quick check of the letters to ed which really is crazy because how would I know whether it is a good cross section of what they get?
RNM1593 – Murdoch is in newspapers only for the power it brings with it altho if he gets clobbered with the hacking of mobile phones then he might rethink it. With new media he can’t hide any more from outside criticism. Everyone is on to his agenda now hence the comments by Brown and Tony Windsor. They don’t care anymore.
They’ve already gone hysterical.
Gillard needs to approach the press gallery like she does the opposition. They are the opposition. Go for them, go for them.
The Australian’s editorial rant about the Greens was almost as amusing as Morgan’s tax rant. Not quite though.
DOGMA – You are totally right. People shouldn’t give the Oz web-site hits. That is why I very rarely even access it. I just glance at the copy of the paper in our reception area or a news agency.
While glancing at the front page this morning, I started off feeling very angry. But by the time I’d finished, I was giggling. Couldn’t stop myself. These people have really, really lost it.
Keep prodding them Bob. Push them into a corner.
CONFESSIONS – If the Oz was a living breathing person they would have called for a straight-jacket by now, put it under heavy sedation and tossed it into a rubber-room.
It reads like a newpaper send-up. Who says Australian doesn’t have a version of the Onion.
I dont no how to get past the word press area or how to get establshed on the site
HELP
RNM – Rupert is in newspapers, because he loves power without responsibility: the last perogative of the harlot.
Newspaper power gives him political power gives him economic power.
They finally start to get it.
Looks like Tone offered the indies more money, but couldn’t identify where the funds would come from, except “unidentified savings”.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/no-sale-abbotts-enormous-deal-the-independents-rejected-20100909-153am.html
Dogma, Thanks for that. At a simple level Murdoch would see the politics of a country as just another form of entertainment or sport. One side has gone to a huge lead, then in the second half the other side claws its way back. From an entertainment/sport point of view what better result than a nail biting draw. Gee its cynical isn’t it!
BK – Barnyard is on Skye telling Gilbert that he’s off to New England to see family and to keep Tony Windsor ‘honest’. Gilbert asked if he would stand down from the Senate and run for New England. Non commital answer from Barnyard but it sounds like a possibility. He’s scathing about Windsor letting down his conservative electorate.
confessions
Are you watching Aganda this morning? Barnaby is wall to wall trashing the indies.
BH
Yes, I’m watching. “Rabid” is a word that immediately comes to mind.
BK: Yes, Barnaby left the reservation many years ago.
#2408 Confessions
surely not
Lightweight Gilbert feeding the rabid Barnaby with OO headlines now.
Go to Mr, Denmore new site and read about what happens when you put your paper behind a pay wall,.
Its in red letters on the article
Mr. Denmore if you are reading here to day, i cannot get past the registration area.
of course its me not up on these things.
HELP
Keep talking Barnaby- the only (slim) hope the coalition have of governing is for the indies to vote no confidence in Gillard. Keep attacking them barnaby, that should do the trick.
Sorry if already mentioned but great exchange between Marius Bensen and Prissy on ABC radio: we wont the most preferred votes and seats. q. But the latest AEC count has Labor over 22,000 votes ahead. Pyne- well, you can use any measure that suits your argument or wtte, we got more primary votes q. but our system doesnt work like that, Pyne- well we wont more seats (73-72) Q. But you need 75 (sic) to govern.
Gold, well done ABC (for a change)
sorry won instead of wont (a Freudian slip)
Barny may be in for a shock who knows why people vote independent if you are liberal wouldn’t you vote liberal
just wondering barny
Andrew
Prissy Pyne is behaving like a little college boy who has just lost a footy game against a public school.
Pathetic!
BK
Abbott must be complicit in allowing people like Barnaby, Hockey etc trashing and undermining the decisions made by the indies. I believe it is to show other Nationals that they are united against them. Abbott needs the Nationals more than he needs the indies. Without the Nationals, the Libs can never gain power again. That is why he rejected any suggestions to work with the greens. This is all about saving the coalition. I wish the media would call them out on this.
So Barnaby isn’t going to heed Abbott’s directive to his MPs to lay off the indies?
Can’t Abbott control his colleagues?
Michelle Grattan on Aganda.
Who said humans and dinosaurs never walked together?
confessions
don’t believe the hype by Abbott. He wants Barnaby (who is a National) to trash the indies. See how there is a suggestion that Barnaby may go against Windsor in future. It is a concerted campaign for unity between the Libs and the Nats nothing more. If Labor were smart, they would play a very good game at destabilising the Nats relevance in regional Australia.
Not Fielding, that’s for sure.
BK
Were you a comedian in another life?
Laura Tingle has a big opinion piece in the back of the AFR this morning entirely devoted to News Corporation’s campaign against the government and the independents.
This seems very important to me, because usually, among newspapers, there is honour among thieves. But she has definitely taken the gloves off.
As others on this site have mentioned, the Murdoch Vendetta only has power because other lazy reporters use it as a source. So the more its agenda is exposed, the less justification there can be for that happening.
Rosa
i dont click on the australian links I have just been reading a great piece form an independent news on line i did not know existed, about the numbers of papers sold and the amount of “clicks” to a site so fascinating,
but you have to go to Mr. Denmore new site the link a page back and the link is in red letter in the article.
rosa
Murdoch and his minions have jumped the shark. Hopefully, there will be a turning point.
No, victoria. Manufacturing and business management. But a bit of laughter in tough times always helped.
dogma
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 8:11 am | Permalink
RNM1953
Have a read of Mr Denmore’s blog http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2010/09/kin-in-game.html. He is a old journo and reckons that its all about volumn of hits, so the more controversial the article the more hits the more revenue.
Every time a PB’er links to a OO article your actually helping them with the revenue.
Tony Abbott knows all about 1 vote victories and legitimacy.
*Giggles* quite loudly actually.
i have alway wondered about this, why not be different to attract readers.
IT is like any product, if everythings the same why buy it, no matter what you purchase.
I’ve set the paper aside to read over a cup of coffee later on. Tingle’s Friday columns are now compulsory reading as far as I’m concerned.
Dr B 2384
So true about academia…huge wank.
Have located you in SA. I’ll send an email to get your paper.
Thanks
If the unhinged one retains the likes of Bronnie Bishop, Kevin Andrews, etc in frontline positions it will tell us a lot.
BK
Agreed laughter definitely always helps. But you do come up with some good ones!
In future, if people want to refer to articles in Murdoch papers would they please (so far as possible) cut and paste so that we don’t have to give it any hits?
Why did abbott have to say what he said so it was on tv for all to hear about the
Bennalong seat i felt so sad for Maxine.
Hope she stand for the senate now that would be Karma
my say
Abbott is a nasty piece of work.
but bk question time is so much fun, it would be so boring with out the little book
BK
I am not aware of the new members on the Libs side, but surely they have some talented new people to choose from?
Rosa 2429
Would you mind summarising the Laura Tingle article
My Say
I’m sorry re: Mr Denmore’s comment section is open for me and I didn’t log in. I’ll twitter him and ask him for you.
AUD at 92.4 US cents. 4 months high.
Any comment Mr Hockey?
Rosa, sole will buy Fin Rev just for that article!
can you imagine if that type of thing happened in a class room situtaion what would be said by the teacher.
as i said we should encourage Maxine to stand for the Senate, start working on it now.
BK
I don’t know what Joe thinks but Mr Katter is apoplectic
Johnny ok
but please don’t quote my paper as copyright now belongs to a journal – will tell you which when you email
That one was better, thanks.
Yes. Are my pies cooked yet?
thank you for that, i think we all need to encourage these areas we love it here but we need the net to have so much new press,
I sent a link to one of the new independants, of our site and Mr. Denmore and the daily bludge and crickey also.
wil go and do some work around here now, so when i come back it will be at this spot and i may find how to link in.
Thanyou dogma, so one and all send these wonderful new links to family and friends
so much better that buying news papers.
La Grattan just told Gilbert on Skye that the Indies didn’t really consider Abbott’s offer. They went with Labor to protect their own seats for 3 years. I think she was suggesting that Abbott’s offer was better but she didn’t say where the money would come from to pay for it. Nor did Gilbert ask.
For some reason we are all a bit light headed today.
Evolutionary biologists, anybody who has an elementary understanding of the history of this planet.
Will be happy when this 9/11 anniversary stuff is passed. Who cares about these nutty priests in US?
Few of which can be found in the south of the USA.
Latest from News Ltd – Oakeshot really is a Labor stooge.
Yes?
MY SAY – the things you make me do.
She says that when labor won the 2007 election News Corp thought it was going to be put on the A-grade leak drip. But that didn’t happen. It was a point of pride, for Rudd, not to give in to its pressure.
However, people in Labor are still rather puzzled about why News Corp turned so feral.
Bob Brown has now decided to call out News Corporation, etc etc and take it on.
The govt now has to decide how to handle News Corp because there is a large range of decisions which will affect News. Those decisions include:
1. What to do about the anti-siphoning laws;
2. What happens to national broadband has long-term implications for Foxtel and internet broadcasting;
3. Govt sponsorship of ABC’s 24 hour program is another commercial threat becuase it is three times more popular than Sky News.
4. Bob Brown has raised the possibility of a Senate inquiry into the Melbourne Storm.
Does anybody else agree with my speculation that if OW backed Abbott, the Libs would be acting like they had just won in a landslide and that they were above opposition criticism?
I’ve always thought that, as the various news organisations engage in a dance of death they would be more prone to call each other out. Maybe that’s going to start happening now.
Speers has been approached to host debate forums in the indies electorates.
RootyBush?
Seemn News ltd are going to help the Nats win back those seats.
Hey Dr B
Devt studies. Very cool. I did a MA in that.
Well, that’s the fun for the morning. The “handbrake” has just presented me with a list of things to do so I better get on with it.
Have a good morning, all.
Of course. We all saw Tone’s triumphalism on election night, even though it was clear he hadn’t actually won the election.
Looks like things are definitely changing under Julia
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/queue-of-ministers-at-julia-gillards-door/story-fn5zm695-1225916752086
True. But other than some country western singers, some conservative American politicians, a few baseball franchises (including the Tampa Bay Rays, which I HATE) what can be found in the south of the USA?
Morning all.
Would someone explain why Rupert Murdoch’s Organ is so rabidly opposed to the NBN? How does it threaten News Ltd revenue? Or is it simply because it’s a Labor initiative and, therefore, wrong?
I have also resolved to never access any News Ltd website. No hits from me, Rupe! I wish to send you broke. So there! Instead, I’ll rely on brave Bludgers to report the OO’s “journalistic” excesses.
(BTW: I was here in 2007 under another name, which I forget. Then I became politically complacent. Time to wake up. I am horrified by the behaviour of the ABC. I reckon the Communications Minister should do a Gareth Gareth and storm the next ABC board meeting with a bobcat and a walloping big broom and muck the joint out, then disinfect. There’s a product called Wheelie Bin Phenyle Cleanser that, if used in sufficient quantity, will eradicate the stench. Might pay to open the windows, though. Then, proceed to The Drum office and seize the IPA and Menzies Foundation computers …
Anyway, you get the drift. End rant.)
VICTORIA – Re jump the shark – I think a good deal of the hysteria at the Oz is the knowledge that they took all of their credibility (such as it is), put it on black AND LOST. Now, they’re trying to double-down on that bet (if that’s the right term) – which means they are likely to become even more of a fringe-dweller in Australian journalism.
Next time they run a BER-style campaign? (NBN waste of course), far fewer people will listen.
DOGMA
i tried different ways to try and leave comment but nothing worked for me.
The Museum of Creation and Earth History?
Yep if Fibs got the nod would’ve been dubbed landslide
Yep dev st is cool!
SCRINGER – See my summary of Laura Tingle above. Surely, in the future, the NBN will eat into foxtel revenue. Foxtel has lots of content, of course, but competitors could slowly eat into that.
MadCyril2468
That is absoulutely brilliant. What a sign of good government. Innovation- or more likely politics catching up with society.
If Gillard can manage a proper cabinet process, combined with better input from back-benchers then it will be a good govt.
G’day Bludgers
Just popping in for a while (bad day) to share the good news, as non-NewsLtd journos count down the days till Howard’s appointees’ terms of public broadcaster boards end.
Rupert Murdoch accused as [UK] MPs vent anger on NoW phone hacking Politicians use [Westminster] parliamentary privilege to attack police inquiry and target News International figures over claims
Take heart, Bludgers. We Aussies are not alone!
I haven’t time to check at the moment, what with a drs trip in 10 mins, but has anyone gone through the anti-NBN articles in That Paper & have any constructive criticism? Or links to people who have? OH for reasons not clear to me seems determined to believe every bad thing about it – not usually that silly.
A not entirely unrelated question is why people will believe bits of any paper that supports their views, but otherwise agree that the msm is at the very least foolish…
It’s going to lower the barrier to entry for subscription television (IPTV being much cheaper to deploy than cable or satellite). So, huge threat to Foxtel.
my dear old day would of said a good dose of the epsom salts is needed
It’s called “The Palin Museum of Truth” now…
Pebbles
Love it!!!
Yes blue_green, that article made me smile. I was hoping that all this talk of a change in the way the government was going to be run wasn’t just spin. Here’s to more of it.
MY SAY – This is a cut and paste of Mr Denmore. I’ve summarised Tingle above.
During the two-weeks of negotiation after the federal election, The Australian’s resident political editor Denis Shanahan published an astonishing piece in which he told his readers that the nation should “forget the three amigos and go back to the polls”.
Accusing the country independents of blackmail and cynically using claims of a new paradigm in politics to feather their own electoral nests, Shanahan promoted a view (dutifully echoed by the ABC and others) that the independents’ position was somehow illegitimate and that democracy was not being served.
Some decried Shanahan for posting another piece of shameless political spin in support of his ideological masters. But while he is clearly not a Labor sympathiser, the real motivation behind his call for a return to the polls may be somewhat more pedestrian. Take a look at this article on the spike in news traffic through the election.
While popular independent bloggers attract increasing traffic, they pale in comparison with the mainstream news sites. And while Murdoch says he is committed to putting his content behind a paywall, early results are not encouraging for him.
That means the way forward for News Ltd and other mainstream media companies online is still more likely to be through click rates and ad dollars, which brings us back to why Mr Shanahan and his ilk were champing at the bit for another election – and why critics of the MSM need to think beyond the left-right, culture war ‘straw man’. This is about dollars.
do you know its very hard to get the AFR here.
Ltd News fears the nbn cos it will allow a regional hub type arrangement
ie peeps in one area will be able to conveerse and creat more efficiently
the idea of a regional hub also means that memes can be quickly smacked down and across all areas simultaneously
personally the abilty to effectively become a TV station is the most exciting part
One thing that we should all take to heart is the fact that the fibs are in denial. And those that aren’t only think they lost because they didn’t go hard enough.
In other words, they haven’t learnt a thing. Compare that with the ALP. Who, although actually won the election, realises they are in poor shape and needs serious introspection…
From the OO:
is the daily tele, is that murdoch also
my say
yes Daily telegraph is a Murdoch paper.
my say, yes it is.
BUSHFIRE – totally brilliant.
This is a great day. Is there anything better than seeing your enemy go mad and start running around in circles trying to bite its arse. A day to treasure.
has any one pointed out to the author that fibre is in europe and japan and parts of asia for some time ,
TSOP
The Libs did come within a hair’s breadth of winning the election.
For example. if the Libs had just managed to win back Belinda Neal’s seat alone then we would have a Lib govt today.
They would be thinking all we need to do, is stick to our parliamentary tactics, labor will explode and if we manage the next election marginally better we will win.
Whereas the ALP realise that they need to govern for a while yet, to reclaim incumbency and shed the instability that plagued them for the last 12 months. They also need the public to forget it.
Blue Green 2434
Thanks, I love it
Julia should start her next press conference:
“I think Tony Abbott once said…”
BK
Yes the Aussie dollar is proving surprisingly resilient to Labor mismanagement
Unemployment figures too were good this week. A good election to lose? I don’t think so.
BB
You have too much time. But well done anyway.
I make it my business to comment on the Australian and CM websites just so an alternative view gets an airing. Since the Labor win I have called the OO and CM out on their many anti-Labor beatups. I also conclude by saying “Labor won. Get over it.” Occasionally the comments get past the resident censor. Makes me feel better anyway, and maybe if enough of us do it someone may just get the message that not all of us are sheeple.
Please, stop boasting about the NBN. Everybody knows the NBN was a policy of the Howard government. All Labor did was blow out the costs!
Bushfire Bill:
Do you have a link for that?
Just joking! That’s hilarious.
Closed temporarily for domestic chores, will return with AFR & will summarise Tingle piece should be an hour or a little more.
blue-green
I maintain that if Labor do as promised for regional Australia, the Nats will be under a lot of pressure. The Nats relevance is extremely important in the big picture. The Nats have not achieved much for their electorates. If Labor with the indies can produce outcomes, the Nats are finished, which means the Libs can gain power.
Having heard that,
I am so excited that Julia is using the public service way of getting a job, for all in sundrie , reminds me of the 7 years i spent in CPS.
doing interviews etc, and then being able when you had the position to talk to the mangement above this time is the PM
Gee you see it take woman,
may be time for a Helen Ready song.
oops – cannot gain power
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/helen-reddy/i-am-woman.html
Bushfire Bill’s send-up of the Oz above his hysterical (if it is a send-up).
The OO continues its war on Labor’s deal with the indies.
Very melodramatic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd-5jZA0HNw
So much for Abbotts order to stop attacking the Indies
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/joyce-pours-scorn-on-rubbish-oakeshott-20100910-153n8.html
The more they attack the Indies, the more likely the Indies are to stick to Labor.
Abbot has again described the Opposition as the ‘government in waiting’.
You know BB, I sort of half believe that is an ‘Australian’ article.
You’v got the methodology down pat.
By the way I kow we call the Australian the OO but I think a new nomencature is appropriate.
What about the “Ugly Australian”?
This Laura Tingle article is very direct and pointed. A good old-fashioned Fairfax vs News Corp stoush, good to see – Tommy Raudonikous and Les Boyd stuff
The other component of Foxtel is the 50% owner, Telstra. News Corp (and Packer/Stokes) a 25% shareholder, I suspect covets it relentlessly. With the NBN changing the competitive landscape of media delivery in Australia, it is reasonable to expect that pressure on forced Telstra divestiture of its stake in Foxtel, will decline. NewsCorp would not be happy
One senses that Laura Tingle will not be passing her CV NewsCorp’s way for a while. As someone (here?) well pointed out, one of the key issues in the subversion of the ABC is the direct infiltration of the NewsCorp employees (from Board to “free-lancers”) and indirectly, through journos “one-day” possibly needing to apply for a job with NewsCorp.
My Say, I left a comment and I did have to log in with google. You have to sign up to google account then you can access the comments section. Just click on the arrow button near the comments section on the website and scroll down to google account. That will take you to a sign up section. Just follow the prompts after that. Remember your account because I forgot I signed up under another old email and couldnt access it. Now I’ve worked it out.
Agree the nats are in trouble, not finished though. The sea-change /tree-change trends will make it hard in the coastal/leafy seats. The increase in coal mining labor may change the balance in more inland seat.
I feel that the ALP will want to keep a rural focus. One- they have some QLD rural seats to win back and some rural vic-nsw seats to hold at the next election. Two- a rural focus makes the nats more prominent in the coalition – which turns off the doctors-wives away from the Libs. Three- The ALP will want the coalition to spend all their cash and policy effort to unseat the Indies- thus relegating city issues at election time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUBnxqEVKlk&NR=1
the original version.
I really don’t get this strategy. They are sounding more and more like the Liberals post 1999 state election in Victoria. And that didn’t go well
I suppose the Coalition are trying to maintain a sense of illigitimacy about the Government, while doing their upmost to bring about its fall.
madcyril
Abbott only made the instruction to the Liberal party room.
Joyce is from the LNP and sits with the Nationals. So fair game.
AFAIK, there is no evidence that the Liberals and Nationals are currently in coalition.
GOUGH1 – Bushfire should be very worried that he can channel Dennis Shanahan so well.
What about calling it The Murdoch Vendetta; The Surry Hills Vendetta; Das Australian
One wonders what the Weekend OO will have in its pages tomorrow. Perhaps an Op Ed from Bushfire Bill might fill it out.
Nice one BB 2488, I off to do some teaching with a grin on my dial, enjoy the continued unhinging today PBers
Julia, making specific reference to Matthew Franklin at the start of press conference:
TRANSCRIPT OF JOINT PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER
CANBERRA
7 SEPTEMBER 2010
Subject: Australian Government
PM: Thank you Mathew Franklin for joining us, and thank you very much to everybody. Obviously, I’m joined by the Deputy Prime Minister, Wayne Swan.
Can I say we live in a lively and a resilient democracy – and it works. We have democratic institutions and conventions that work well at the most important times when they’re put to the test by the Australian people at an election….
X is feeling the early onset of his own irrelevancy
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/fellow-independent-nick-xenophon-says-rob-oakeshott-would-lose-if-he-took-ministry/story-fn59niix-1225917059588
Thinking about how far gone the OO is now, and observing that most right wingers in Australia mindlessly follow American trends, I doubt we will see the OO return to anything vaguely resembling sanity any time soon. Consider Fox News: once they went far right, they just kept going further. After the outrageous “swiftboating” reporting scandal in the 2004 election, things got worse, not better. I expect the Ooze will be the same.
So what to do? How do you deal with an opponent who will always react negatively, and will lie deliberately whenever it suits?
One thing is you expose their lack of credibility to the middle ground. Highlight past glaring errors. Ask the Oz journos “what about the last time you said…” to their face. See how they react.
Another is to starve them of information and relevance. The Glen Milne’s of this world long for people to talk about tme, and their thoughts. Don’t read them. Don’t discuss them. Marginalise them. In this respect, while I can understand the frustration of some people here with these groups, the obsession with them is self-defeating.
The ABC is a different story. They are a public broadcaster and obliged to be independent, so that needs ot be dealth with. A nomination process for the new board members that included the independents would be good, and improve their credibility.
Rosa @ 2461
Thanks, Rosa.
Laocoon
The formal arrangments between the Libs and Nats is like the Australian govts position on China and Taiwan.
Yes we have a policy on Taiwan and China.
What is it?
A policy.
Can I see it?
Its here somewhere, I just can’t quite work out where I put it.
OK. What does it say?
It says what our policy is about China and Taiwan.
OK. Does Australia support ‘One China’
Yes
OK. Does Australia support Taiwan’s right to internal democratic proceeses and international trade.
Yes.
Isn’t there a conflict there?
Ummm.
OK. Does Australia support Taiwan in developing its military? Ordoes Australia support the China taking back Taiwan by force?
You’ll have to read the policy document.
Can I see it?
Latest attack.
Seven’s Morning Show.
Julia Gillard’s step-daughter to appear in Zoo magazine. Screen shows unflattering photo.
7 presenter no.1 : Will this affect Julia Gillard?
Graham Richardson (guest) : Not at all.
7 Presenter no.2 : You can go now.
BB great evil article
We should start a website that takes the 2-3 key articles from the OO and get “redone” BB style. A nice way to confuse with the articles appearing within google results in amongst the original article
LAOCOON – Once the NBN is built, what will stop football codes (AFL, NFL) etc from selling their games direct to homes? Why would they even need Foxtel?
Xenophon makes a lot of good points that I’m sure Oakeshott would’ve taken into account. It’s a tough choice.
Socrates
[I don’t know if Dio is about but Xanthippe put me onto some excellent sources re: dubious scientific research in the health industry, being corrupted by private money. Manufacturing Doubt by Michaels is a good read, as is the Healthy Skepticism website.
http://www.healthyskepticism.org/global/
Mrs D wrote her Masters thesis on that topic last year. Coincidentally she asked me for a book to read last night. I gave her Manufacturing Doubt and she said she knew it all and that the book I was reading was more interesting. It was Economic Gangsters and is about corruption, violence and poverty and foreign aid. She stole my book and now I’ve had to move on to the Dig Tree about Burke and Wills (the 150th anniversary was last month).
FWIW I would prefer Oakeshott on the x-benches.
It would be a hard gig for him to run a ministry without it ending in tears.
Of course. Because Graham Richardson knows Gillard isn’t the problem.
Gold, gold, gold, for Julia G and especially Craig Emerson who could have a lot of fun with that.
BushfireB – classic – between you and Jenauthor we’re doing well here.
How about “The Turd Estate”?
b_g
Perhaps…so much for transperancy. And faceless “men”
The documented arrangements between the ALP and the Greens and each of the independents are publicly available.
The OO would be better named “Volkischer Beobachter”!
Laocoon, politically I would have thought if Abbott genuinely wants the attacks to stop, the Nats should pull their heads in. It does seem the Liberals may be genuinely worried though. Or is it all part of the game? Let the Nats do the running in attacking the Indies
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/dont-attack-independents-abbott-20100909-1537g.html
rosa
Well, I am no tech-head, but I suspect nothing much (aside from control of content)
Which is why Telstra is starting to offer a nice bundled internet-Foxtel package. There is a difference watching Rugby on a ~12″ PC screen and big plasma
NBN is going to be a further major challenge to the media companies’ business models for sure
Socrates:
The Greens policies on media diversity are probably what News ltd outlets are afraid of. The Greens will soon be in a position to at the very least get some kind of parliamentary review of media diversity laws. Tingle’s article today says there is sympathy within the government ranks for Brown’s calls for a Senate inquiry into Melbourne Storm stuff, something else News fears.
In a way they are bringing about their own demise with these hysterical attacks on the Greens, the indies and the government. The more hysterical they become, the more it lends credibility to those who say they are waging their own agenda against our elected MPs, and the more momentum is created for parliament to take on News ltd.
Fellow bludgers, this might be of interest while you enjoy a morning brew:
A “malevolence of myths”.
http://ozforums.com.au/forums/index.php/topic,7151.0.html
These myths are coming so quickly, I had to develop a new collective noun.
ShiftyPhil @ 2479
Thanks. I see.
my say @ 2480. Ah, epsom salts. My dear old mum, now long departed, was a bush nurse. She swore by epsom salts. It was the cure-all. All ills, in her book, could be cured by a good purge. Regards.
one thing driving NewsLtd here is the success of FoxNews in the US.
All of the other there networks are either left leaning (msnbc) or reasonably balanced (cnn) – compared to FoxNews cnn looks left wing.
FoxNews effectively has around 50% of the market to itself and is now doing very well.
I think they would like to reproduce that with SkyNews and the Australian.
But because NewsLtd is so big there are so many issues 2 of which are
paytv (threatened by the NBN).
paytv (again threatended by Conroys plan to change the anti sports syphoning rules).
I wonder if ABC24 is also looking at FoxNews (aka FauxNews) as a model as well.
madcyril
Interesting.
Certainly, the Liberals-Nationals are well versed in letting someone do the dirty work (in this case, the Nationals), while the leadership/mainstream feigns shock/ignorance/disapproval.
An alternate view is that the Nationals perceive the independents as a existential threat, and that being tied to the Liberals is a major handicap in that fight.
I would imagine, as well, that if the Nationals do split from the Liberals (or rather, do not form a coalition), the last place we will read about that is NewsCorp media; does not do the “stability”/legitimacy argument much good
JOHN – Totally agree. News Corp is hemorrhaging [sic] viewers/readers in Australia. They want to circle the wagons and rust on the right-wing loonies
New name for the OO: the Pustralian.
How about the “Coalition Raconteur (And Propaganda Sheet)”?
John Reidy
Just to add, also, that NewsCorp is also currently looking to take out the other shareholders in BSkyB – they like the pay TV business
You can watch internet viewing through your plasma through the HDMI socket, so footy (and much more) through the internet is really going to be popular
NBN download speeds mean almost the whole online world’s open to subscribers, inc sport! Somewhere in the world someone will be offering free the very sport you pay Sky to watch – probably India, given the way its entrepreneurial cits, mainly poor women who bought satellite dishes, cabled their neighbourhoods and offered access at a pittance they could afford, beat a way around his intransigence (there was a great ABC ?4 Corners prog on it). Or China.
Consider what Oz free-to-air sport Murdoch has a stake in, owns/wants to, but can’t as yet paywall. Little chance now the situation will change; that he’ll get SBS’s soccer, especially given that by Election2013, most of the nation, esp “west of the Great Divide” as well as cities, will get NBN, and SBS/ABC charters have special provisions re services to special interest groups & regional & remote Oz.
ABC has already moved into his 24/7 news domain – the nearer the new Boards loom, the more competitive it (& SBS for sure) will become.
Newspapers are no longer his big money spinners, paywalled TV networks are. In Oz, public broadcaster charters + NBN pretty much mean that most Aussies will be asking themselves Why should I pay for what I can NBN-stream free
So cheer up. NBN was the big “deal breaker” in Oakshott’s & Windsor’s decisions (as the “New Election” meme also was in Windsor’s )
I wonder to what extent the Opposition’s cheaper, slower, more limited, more expensive (in the long run) “wireless” BB was influences by Tone’s relationship with Rupert and his Oz minions.
Many good suggestions PBers
I am also mulling over the “UnAustralian” as it the paper offends the real australian ethos of the fair go!
Might be something our politicos could run with
OZPOL – As I said above, why wouldn’t the Rugby League, AFL etc etc just bundle their own games and sell them direct to consumers via the NBN. At the least they will be able to get a much better price from Foxtel.
Dio
Yes inter-spousal book-napping can be a problem! We must browse the same book review lists
Thanks for the suggestion on Economic Gangsters; I’ll have a look at that too.
What about the “Australiar”
Confessions
I haven’t read that Greens policy but it sounds like it would be strongly in Labor’s interests, both in terms of beign seen to work with the Greens and Indies, and for its own sake, to introduce it. Even Mr X in the Senate shoudl support it. Fielding won’t, but he is irrelevant after 1 July.
Very good piece by Aristotle.
Aristotle
Fellow bludgers, this might be of interest while you enjoy a morning brew:
A “malevolence of myths”.
http://ozforums.com.au/forums/index.php/topic,7151.0.html
Luv ya, Ari. Luv ya posts, an’ I dips me lid
Eric Abetz was re-elected unopposed as Opposition Leader in the Senate. He claims to have heard nothing further about the case against him re citizenship.
Bushfire Bill, hope you don’t mind, but I posted an edited version of your hilariously accurate mock unAustralian story on Andrew Bolt’s blog. Hopefully the Bolta has a sense of humour.
Does anyone know the circulation of the Australian in Port Macquarie and Tamworth?
BB. Excellent.
George @ 2526
Brilliant idea. Satire is a powerful weapon. I hereby nominate the Right Honourable Bushfire Bill as resident PB OO Satirist. Just to sweeten the deal, he’s now officially pencilled in for an appropriate gong.
What is the Ugly Australian complaining about?
They endorsed Gillard Labor. WOW and the Greens are just agreeing with them.
Bushfire – as someone else said, if you are scanning the Australian and find an editorial on the labor/green alliance, please post it.
We’re demanding, I know.
There are many simple ways of streaming internet based video (HD included) to TVs already these days, Laocoon. I must confess that I hadn’t thought much before about the potential impact that the NBN might have on News Ltd Pay TV interests. It could indeed, be substantial, and effectively render existing cable and satellite services (all we can get in our part of Hurstbridge – less than an hour’s drive from the Melbourne CBD) completely obsolete.
Although the writing has surely been on the wall for a while when it comes to such things, the hodge podge of approaches contained in Abbott’s “broadband” plan would certainly have given Foxtel more time to adjust.
Alan Shore
Under what heading of Bolta’s blog did you post BB’s piece?
A few practical difficulties with what is fundamentally a sound approach:
We love controversy. We love being outraged and we love talking about being outraged. At base that’s what keeps this site alive. It only takes one mean-spirited or hubristic post by the likes of GP or TTH to spark off a barrage of angry responses, a fair proportion of which take the original piece of trollery at face value. And who knows how much of a role misinformation and deceptive reporting inspires others (who may not have bothered otherwise) to go out and find and report the truth of the matter?
That’s one issue. Another is highlighted by the excellent new site by Mr Denmore. It links OO articles, and to understand the context of his pieces, you kinda need to read them. That causes hits, but in a way it’s necessary. Understandably, with his site focusing exclusively on media grotesqueries, it’s going to happen. But Grog, to cite another brilliant blogger, does the same thing. You have to, if you want context.
In that sense, it suits the OO to be outrageous, and it forces us to read. It also sharpens our debating skills, but that’s just a side-effect I suppose.
The worst problem comes not from the hits to the OO site, but the insidious effect it has on the wider media. The ABC swallows the News Ltd line whole, and feeds it straight back to us. So they get the message out whether we want to hear it from them or not.
I don’t know what the answer is, though. I’d advocate a clean-out of the ABC, and an insistence that they source their own material rather than relying on a commercial entity. That’d be a good start.
For the OO? Well, I liked the way Possum occasionally gets under their hackles; and that continued highlighting of their partisan politics has started to permeate some areas of the wider media. More of that may force them to play a bit more nicely over time. Once the bias is acknowledged, it makes it easier and easier to refer to it over time, until it becomes accepted fact.
Keep up the good fight, I guess.
davo1943
Thanks davo…I can see my 20 something nephew having to make a visit…
AGUIRRE – I think the more extremist the Ugly Australian gets, the less chance there is that other publications (e.g. the ABC) will be able to justify copying it.
Not sure their coming campaign against NBN waste is going to have quite the same effect as before.
Aristotle
Excellent commentary – that piece should be sent on to all the independents, which I may link to them myself.
Oakeshott’s site is down, does anyone have his email address?
Victoria, I posted it to:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/but_whats_an_extra_billion_or_two_to_labor_these_days/
But the comments haven’t been updated yet.
Yeah, I wouldn’t bet on that. They’re pretty good at refining their smear-campaign until it’s palatable enough for human consumption. It looks unhinged now, but it’s just a work in progress.
It’s important to remember that, although the insulation scheme and NBN reportage didn’t succeed in ousting the ALP, it did create an “accepted truth” of sorts that the ALP are incompetent and wasteful. That smear was never wiped away. And it will be the starting point for the next one.
A relentless and massive DDOS attack….. tongue in cheek of course.
It baffles me a little why the Murdoch’s empire has mangaged to escpape the wrath of the hackers around the world, they would seem a prime candiate for disruption.
Anyone discussed this yet?
Probably getting DDOSed by angry Nationals supporters (leaving aside the obvious jokes about them and computers).
Didn’t Abbott say that Barnaby was the best retail politician ever? He will be the go to man for any dirt or sludge now.
So they are after Speers to run forums in the Indies’ seats. If that is the case then Labor and the Greens had better organise a really good turn up and keep the bast..ds honest. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander!
Fairly low I’d have thought.
Would NewsLtd have carried at Rob & Tony’s presser about “robbing the city, esp Sydney’s western suburbs” if they owned the regional dailies, and the Terrorgraph & OO had a big readership? In addition, in many areas (lots of mountains, their shadows, valleys, and towerless places) satellite reception is almost non-existent.
Fairfax has a pretty good hold. Regions are more fond of local papers & Country Life.
PS: I’ve decided to (try to) give up my former abbrievation for the OO.
Well if 100Mbps becomes the standard for minimum bandwidth then those satellite dishes that FoxTel relies on to get the signal to your home will become redundant.
An AAPT board member said during the campaign that 15Mbps was the bandwidth required for streming HD content. At the minimum speed you will be able to get 6 streams recording to a storage device. The strain will not be on delivery but on storage by the user.
We already have internet and DLNA enabled TVs ready to wirelessly plug into your home network. You can get a 42″ LG from JBs for under $1,300. Sony are going to make connectivity standard soon on their Bravia line. So the technology is already working sweet
Imagine if you will a hypothetical future where Ten and 7 snag the NRL rights for the knockdown bargain-basement price of roughly 3 times what PBL and News currently pay for it. They then sell access to non-televised games at $5 a pop or possibly their own monthly or yearly subscription service. If they could do this subscriptions to FoxTel would fall through the floor in NSW and QLD. Remember when 7 and Ten bought the AFL rights and Fox Sports refused to meet their price of $55M a year? Telstra had to make Fox Sports (joint venture of PBL and News) get on board after people started canceling their subscriptions across Vic, SA and WA.
FoxTel have already seen this hypothetical future which is why they are trying to get to XBoxLive subscribers via the net. It’s coming later this year.
The NBN is bad news for FoxTel and News. It makes the closed market fro Pay TV delivery would just become open slather and uncle Rupert doesn’t want that.
Rosa #2557 – virtually zero in Port Macquarie. If you want to see some fiery blog debates. Go to the Port Macquarie News site (the paper is mainly supportive of Oakeshott) – the comments are fairly evenly split but it is fairly obvious that a lot of comments are by out of towners. It suits the MSM narrative to say his decision is grossly unpopular in town but I just don’t think that is the case. If I was a Nat I would be very worried – these independents have taken their supposed raison d’etre ( as distinct from raison toast – which is on the blackboard menu of a cafe here)
Already exists – it’s called ‘farming’.
On a more serious note, this is unconstitutional. Can’t be bothered looking it up, but the Constitution mandates that there can be no difference made between areas when allocating money, raising taxes, etc.
This is why, for example, the extra money for rural/regional students under the Youth Allowance is called a ‘scholarship’ and is paid separately rather than being rolled into the YA.
It is also why you are entitled to the same minimum wage no matter where you work.
This was put in the Constitution – ironically enough – to protect rural and regional Australians from a ‘user pays’ taxation system, where they could be taxed more because it is more expensive to provide them with basic services.
Even this is becoming much less of an issue, hard drives of very large capacity are very cheap, you can fit a lot of compressed content on a 2 terrabyte drive which you can buy for just over $100.
Strange as it sounds the problem becomes the organisation of content, with 10′s of thousands of media files it becomes a nightmare.
OzPol @2547
Thanks for that. Any updates on phone bugging in UK?
Imagine some pirate receiving the footy finals on Foxtel digital TV and then rebroadcasting it on the net… for free… in HD. Rupert would have a stroke.
The thing is we don’t really know what’s going to happen once ordinary users have 6 times the bandwidth that Foxtel has.
Boutique studios? One-off pay broadcasts (without the underlying yearly subscription fees)… say the Sydney Opera House decided to netcast its own sold-out shows? An HD YouTube channel? The possibilities of grief for Foxtel are endless.
OPT is right – local papers are more the go in the rural areas apart from the Daily Terror in NSW for the sports pages.
Every local areas has its free paper as well and that is highly read. The OO, SMH and AFR are very small piles in our newsagent. On the Tuesday after the election I had to go to a physio which is at the back of a newsagency. A van was parked at the back door and the bloke was loading large bundles of weekend papers into it to go back for credits. This was the largest newsagency in a tourist/seachange area so I said ‘you bewdy’.
SLACKBOY72 – Thank you. Very illuminating. And I know so many people who are pissed off about paying Foxtel over $100 per month when they want so little of the programming. Won’t it be great when people can pay for the slices of content that they really want.
I can well imagine that Soccer Australia will be delighted if it can sell its programming direct to consumers for say $10 a month. That way, everybody who is interested in local soccer can access games (rather than being dependent on access to Foxtel)
Naughty mark to Laura Tingle, refering, in her inside paper story, to yesterday’s “Coalition party room”
It was not. It was Liberal party room.
Dennis Glover making sense
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/labor-pains-could-foreshadow-political-rebirth/story-e6frg6zo-1225916743021
And, of course, if the NBN is a big success in Australia it will be copied overseas where Uncle Rupe has lots of other cable networks.
I looked up yesterday’s OO “vox-pop” stooge, one Karrie Whitten (a dairy farmer from Tamworth). Unusually for an OO stooge, it wasn’t too hard. They often have no Google history at all. It’s af if they don’t exist. But in Karrie Whitten’s case she was (relatively) all over the net, cited in newspaper articles for her innovative dairy farming techniques.
Her point was that they had wireless internet on her farm and she couldn’t see why anyone needed anything faster. Wireless was perfect.
Google Mapping her address showed she lives about 2 kilometres from the centre of Tamworth, where wireless reception would have to be pretty strong. Someone who had a farm on either far side of the mountain ranges surrounding Tamworth might have more of a problem, methinks.
Oh, and yes, Karrie voted for the Coalition (mentioned halfway down the article).
I didn’t hear it on RN, but Fran said before the 7am news, wtte, coming up later “should the NBN be delayed…”
Afterwards I looked at the Aust site and of course there was today’s article re the NBN saying
oh and there was this
P.S. Thanks to those who appreciated my poor attempt at humour. Unfortunately I’m head-down/bum-up on a time and finance-critical project at the moment and so don’t have a lot of time on my hands. Just the odd blog post here and there for ol’ BB lately (and for the next few weeks at least).
As per:
Good luck with that James – you and the other Murdochs hate the NBN and what it will mean for your empire.
Jon went:
Not with software like Windows Media Center and plugins like Mediabrowser (which is a groupware effort based in Sydney)
I use that combination to run my entire home entertainment system. I’ve got over 16TBs worth of blu-ray, dvds and tv shows ripped to 9 hard drives and streamed via Windows Home Server.
The great thing about the NBN is the potential to do away with centralised storage solutions and instead stream blu-ray quality hd movies (40Mbps) on demand directly to your home. You could either rent a movie or buy it outright and stream from your local Blockbuster Video On-demand Broadband Service Provider, operating in the local community and plugging into the local Fiber Area Network or Fiber Servicing Area.
OakeshottCounty fhas a point. Friends in Pt Macq who were Nat/Lib voters before Oakeshott told me yesterday that they are happy with his decision because he will do his best for them. They know what Mark Vaille didn’t do for them. It was interesting that they said if Oakeshott doesn’t run again they will vote Green/Lab but never again National. I think Oakeshott may have changed a few minds in that way – the Nats are not the be all and end all for many rural people now.
He will be having many strokes then; all of his precious content will be simulcast in fibre, all of his films already get diverted, all that will happen is that it will be done at a higher quality, delivered faster. His print empire is doomed, his idea of paywalls are a joke that has been tried and failed, his pay tv channels will leak, and myspace is fading. He is a fossil from a bygone era and It’s all going up in smoke.
I understand that zonal taxation is ruled out in our Constitution.
Batman has now been declared. Have to watch and see if the start the TPP today.
Reopen for business
Ltep, I’d have thought most “rural area” people on low incomes would be on Centrelink’s payroll (& already get rural allowances & tax deductions) and/or have very good accountants; therefore would have a very low taxable incomes (which come with a lot of Centrelink freebies; reduced private health costs, ed subsidies/ allowances etc.)
There are even greater differences between rural “fat cats” and “the rest” than there are in cities. Rural pay is lousy & locals loath to take cases to the authorities; rural small-business returns often marginal (especially through drought/ disaster years); bills are rarely paid on time (& many are never paid) – that, and the Tyranny of Distance are why small businesses & professional practices have left. Yet, when it comes to taxable incomes … Yeah!
Those in the and/or have very good accountants category – which, as a rural (St George) based Tax accountant, Barnaby would know only too well – rarely pay more but minimal tax, should at least have to pay that!
Perhaps we could have a zero tax rate for people who were able to prove they had voted for or financially supported the coalition? I suppose Barnaby has accurately predicted the amount the lost tax revenue fomr this policy would increase the nation’s debt lelve by too? Or have the debt boats of waste been turned back?
Did you hear that Blockbuster in the US (dvd rental outfit like VideoEzy) is in bankruptcy proceedings there?
They will probably survive, but in a much smaller form.
Blockbuster in the US were huge, movie studios would edit movies to suit their ‘family friendly’ policies.
what is the updated figures re the pv and 2pp
some one here is writing that we have neither, so like to know what stage we are at now
When I lived in Darwin I used to get a remote zone tax rebate. Maybe Barnaby is thinking about something like this for rural areas?
I like how a meritocracy applies in the city but not in the bush.
In other words, if the NBN goes ahead (here and in modified form overseas) then Uncle Rupe’s whole empire could be pretty much over in 5 to 10 years.
Love how this is news:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/confidential/julia-gillards-de-facto-stepdaughter-staci-child-to-strip-for-magazine/story-e6freq7o-1225916769198
For those talking about data/hard disk space/etc.
When we go beyond “movies” and the like, and start thinking more about slicing and dicing information important to scientists, journalists, etc, this is where the management of the data becomes important and the smarts behind the data need to be a lot more robust than simple “search”.
For example, I have (close to) 17 terabytes of video/audio on a raid server. The hardware setup was dead simple.
The video comes from SBS/ABC and some other broadcasters, and spans close to 8 years of information. With almost every piece of video/audio there are transcripts stored in an MS SQL database.
My main interest is Indigenous Affairs, and I have written software that automatically flags transcripts where Indigenous issues are discussed. The software further slices and dices the transcripts (identifies key people, places, etc).
At any time, I can press one button on a local webpage and create a visual timeline (utilising javascript based open software) – scroll through all transcript titles/summaries and link directly to video/audio and full transcripts. As I research a specific topic, I can easily flag those item most relevant and have them sit in “research containers” to allow me to hone in on the topic.
Now, imagine taking away all the hardware required, the requirement to write your own software and the cost of managing the hardware/software: it now all sits in the cloud, accessible to everyone, with high level sophisticated analysis software available through the web/NBN. Even at a modest charge rate, it would take me 30+ years to recoup what I’ve spent in time/money designing my own system.
Imagine what this would do for students, scientists, journalists, and people from all walks of Australian life – from simple news (possibly aggregated by intermediaries) to full blown analysis of terabytes of data within seconds/minutes. The future looks good with what the NBN, de-shackled from the likes of the ars*hole Murdochs, will bring.
Benji – I opened that link and there is some good stuff in that article for Labor to consider.
Julia G’s push to spread sustainability throughout the rural regions could be of great benefit to centre/left people, whether Indies, Labor or Greens.
It is a matter of pride to many people in this area that they pay none or minimal tax. I often ask ‘how are we supposed to pay for health, etc. if you don’t think you should pay any tax – what if everyone felt like that’.
thank you dogma
Well, most of his empire is in the US and the UK, so I wouldn’t go that far. The best thing we can hope for is that Rupert dies soonish. I don’t think his kids are particularly fond of his approach to editorial and they may be a breath of fresh air.
Over the USA, chains like Blockbuster have had a tough time competing with online DVD rental companies like NetFlix, which deliver DVDs to your mailbox (and fairly cheaply too!). This is a sign of the times.
Why is Andrew Catsaras’ piece described as ‘excellent’? His commentary is correct, but there is no need to rush to praise him for writing it. All he has done is state the obvious.
In other words, if the NBN goes ahead (here and in modified form overseas) then Uncle Rupe’s whole empire could be pretty much over in 5 to 10 years.
PLEASE LET IT BE SO
Correct, it is entirely based on a model that is becoming rapidly redundant, and to make matters all the more terminal, the sheer size and lack or manoeuvrability of media companies like news corp. renders them incapable of structural reform at pace fast enough to adapt. It’s the perfect storm.
You only have to look at the way Google aggregates news and doesn’t pay a cent for any of it, Murdoch complained about it and then all of a sudden stopped, I expect Google offered to stop indexing their content and the reality of their vulnerability dawned.
I have asked a colleaugue who subscribes to the Finn Review whether he is able to cut & paste the Tingle article to me to upload to PB for all to see.
remember what rosa said about clicking on to msm
Hello Bludgers,
Regarding recent calls to action against shoddy / biased journalism, I have the following to offer. I’m a card-carrying member of GetUp – an online progressive action community (the ones who brought you those extra 100,000 votes for the disenfranchised at this election) and they’re conducting a survey on future campaign directions for the organisation.
When asked about future strategy directions, I suggested:
I think one of the major letdowns in the election campaign was the performance of journalists . I detected a very pro-coaltion bias (particularly in the murdoch press), a tendency to not check facts prior to publication, a bias towards sensational headlines and stories rather than balanced ones, and a tendency for journalists not to challenge politicians when they were clearly lying (claims of ‘illegitimate government’ is the clearest recent example).
I think that the GetUp membership could exert a powerful influence by writing letters to media outlets about particular journalists and stories, and becoming actively involved in commenting online, particularly on those stories that distort the facts, are unbalanced or push a non-progressive platform.
If anyone else is interested in contributing their suggestions, the survey can be found here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5TVNTKG
I’d also be interested in anyone’s thoughts on how we can take effective action against poor journalism … is there a watchdog we can complain to? Should one be created? Is an inquiry into journalistic integrity a reasonable possibility?
I personally think that PBs becoming even more involved in commenting on online stories (particularly early in the morning when those comments are most likely to be at the top of the list) to provide balance, point out obvious bias and correct factual errors would be a powerful initiative as it’s obvious that many of these outlets have a very vocal following from the dark side of humanity.
Betchya Kerry Stokes is looking at the NBN with incredible focus. This might be his big chance to jump past Rupert.
Google and Verizon are trialling 1Gbps (1,000Mbps) and 100Mbps FTTH networks respectively in the US already.
Can you run Wonkavision on 1Gbps?
You know the one where you can move blocks of chocolate around the world by TV.
Spinsup,
Ari’s article is praised because its a factual account, not an article washed through that news service PR department.
[If anyone else is interested in contributing their suggestions, the survey can be found here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5TVNTKG
as much as i would like to take the survey having read it i feel
its NO ONES business except tasmanians re the GUNNS
issue so i will not take the survey
I always wondered if the incredible bias shown by the media during this campaign – and the LIBs irrational approach to the NBN was due to the threat posed by this technology to the entrenched monopolies in the media.
Keating said once something like “Always back self interest in a two horse race” … i am leaning more and more down that path as to the reason for the over the top rabidness we have experienced for the last term and still experiencing now in the new paradigm.
The NBN is going to change the media landscape in ways that we can’t even imagine and the current monopolies don’t like that idea one bit.
Way to stop it – attack the ALP to ensure the LIBs get in and voila – NBN dead – profits continue.
Good idea pouvoir – it makes sense to get GetUp involved, the issue should be non partisan reporting – which should suit GetUp.
re. existing watchdogs – there is the Press Council, however it is a self regulatory body – which is funded by the papers/media themselves, and so does not do a very good job.
Fair enough My Say, but I reckon your input is still important, even if only to make that point.
Netflix also has an online service in the US for PS3s and Xbox360s (hence the name).
The future is already here.
I didn’t say it was ‘excellent’. I said it was good. Personally, I’m a fan of factual pieces that counter some of the more hysterical depictions of recent events. To each their own though.
pouvoir
Hasn’t Getup have Liberal members and exLib members on their board?I remember that Costello, I think, was a member of the board. I don’t think they will go for it. Be glad to be proven wrong though.
Any journos in the US reading this? If so, would it be possible to whip out and corner Rupert Murdoch and ask him a couple of questions, like:
Is the NBN good for Australia? Are you looking forward to it?
(Further questions to be supplied.)
JOH – “Perfect storm” for Rupe – I love it. So the moment his studios don’t put out a big hit to bolster revenue then News Corp might sink like the well… “Titanic”.
Wonder if his kids have the answer – snigger, snigger.
Hi Dogma,
I think it’s probably the opposite, and if anything GetUp has been accused of being a Labor front in the past (which is something I think they need to work on) …
The board members (according to Wikipedia) are:
David Madden, a co-founder
Jeremy Heimans, a co-founder
Amanda Tattersall, a union researcher
Anne Coombs, a historian and online opinion author
Brett Solomon, former Campaigns Director of AVAAZ and former Executive Director of GetUp
Stokes is as bad as Murdoch when it comes being a right winger. Have you watched the 7 news and that arse clown Mark Riley?
Hewson was on the board of GetUp, I think the they would go for it, media bias can go both ways.
Maybe Rupe can go back to tits and bums on page 3. That might save his empire.
SpinsUp@2609
I described it as excellent and do not resile from that. I also sent the link on to the indies (although I couldnt get Oakshott’s email from his site, which appears to be having load problems.)
Everything is relative. In the current ignorant and wilfully ignorant MSM climate we can’t get enough impartial, rational, and informed analysis. If only other journalists were writing at the same standard as Mr Catsaras’ piece.
Any idea where trendy inner-city types can expect a connection to the NBN (if there is no liberal coup)
I would expect all of the media barons are looking, problem is they are all facing the same walk to the gallows. I don’t know what the media landscape will look like in 10-15 years, but it will look nothing like the current one. I expect huge pillars like Time Warner, Viacom, Disney and news corp. etc will be radically different, if they survive at all and I would also expect a whole lot of floundering and consolidation.
I would say it is likely personalisation of indexing and context searching of content will continue to be the way it goes i.e. aggregation. I don’t know who will pay for the making of content given that it has to be payed for somehow. Truth is nobody has an answer to the media train wreck coming. The NBN will be real game changer IMHO.
where = when
A chance for the Indi puff adder after the next election perhaps?
JON – Thanks. Very illuminating.
Unfortunately for him, I think the Internet has dominated that market already.
He’s still doing it in the UK, The Sun still has page 3 girls.
I’ll second that because Ari gives us factual insight which is lacking in opinion only pieces.
Thanks Ari
Rob has asked people to send snail mail for the moment as his email box was overloaded – maybe from cranks.
Theres Laura Tingles article in the AFR
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kathleenjoy/4975677542/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Thanks BH – it will be out of date by snail mail.
Paul J – Thank you very much
From twitter
[GreenJ
New media paradigm cont: Laura Tingle for non AFR subscribers http://flic.kr/p/8zFDzQ
BK
Is the Contrarians on today?
pouvoir @ 2614
Thanks for the link.
Paul_J. Thank you for the link. A most excellent read.
Ok I see some put in a link to AFR Tingle piece already
Like these guys?
from the comments
http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2010/09/08/australian-election-2010-we-might-have-lost-this-battle-but-we-will-definitely-win-the-war-in-jesus-name-by-pr-daniel/
Oakeshott makes his decision today, its reported. I guess we’ll finally know around Thursday next week, along with Julia.
Ziggy – Much appreciated
If when the NBN is rolled out the US is still in recession, I have these mental images of the Navy trying to turn back boat loads of asylum seekers from California and Seattle.
Well, when they are processed we can ship them out to the regions (which will already have Broadband)…
The economy, the NBN and Medicare might boost immigration from the US.
Thanks Paul J for posting Laura Tingle’s piece. It pretty much sums up the state of play.
al paster
Is Ministry to be announced next Thursday?
If Rupe’s hero, Ronald Reagan was alive, he would say: “Mr Murdoch, tear down these paywalls”.
victoria, it’s expected to be announced by early next week
madcyril
Thanks.
To quote M Thatcher, “It’s a funny old world” all of a sudden. A few years ago when Gunns were prosecuting the greens who would have imagined that today:
1. Gunns would get out of logging native forests altogether:
Victoria, It was my pathetic attempt at satire on Mr Oakeshott’s well known ability to get to the point quickly. I suspect the Ministry will be announced Tuesday. Its good news that J is not following a media timetable.
brackets error in the middle of 2659
No worries regarding the Tingle Link
I think the govt should attack Murdoch head on, News isn’t going to let up on Gillard , O&W or the Greens so they may as well inflict damge on Murdoch as best they can IMHO.
al paster
re-reading your post. I get it. Maybe Oakshott is scared to give an answer because Barnaby has accused him of seeking a ministry in the Iemma govt. Oakshott apparently doesn’t recall this. Barnaby dumped on him. The fun and games ensue.
leftwingpinko @ 2629
Yes, I had the misfortune to see that Riley arrangement briefly the other day. He referred to the Indies as “barbarians”.
I was considering a direct, polite email to Kerry Stokes – if I can find an address – asking was he aware of the standard of journalism on Channel Seven, etc. And, of course, the immediate sacking of Riley.
The key take away from the Laura Tingle piece is the ALP must be agressive toward the News Ltd press. There is no room whatsover for shrinking from this issue. that was done prior to the election and news ltd cleaned up big time. Confront them head on and dismiss their issues. grant no access of shanhan. franklin etc. Going soft with these people yields nothing they will attack regardless. a simple analysis of the front page of the OO over the last 12mths would shows 80% negative for the ALP guaranteed. The alp must be merciless in this approach.
PAUL J – I think one of the big problems for News Corp is that they have made it quite clear that they’re all stick and no carrot. So what incentive does the govt have to play their game (even if they wanted to).
Further, they really have a lot less influence than they think.
Paul J
I believe the Govt should continue to pursue good governance and conduct interviews providing straight up information as to policy matters. They should do with the Libs do, repeat repeat repeat.
The bookies and Betfair are paying on the overall election result – I just checked my accounts. Coopers Sparkling Ale anyone?
Never in doubt.
You’re kidding right? If it was up to me everything that rupert creates would be behind that wall… so normal people didn’t even accidentally have to be exposed to that poisonous drivel.
Yes, victoria, at 4:15 AEST.
I’ve done the chores and can now settle down to a nice Friday afternoon/evening.
Life is good.
I agree. Simply say “If i need to talk to the liberal party, I’ll do it in question time” and be done with it. Never answer a single question from a news ltd journalist.
BK
Sounds like a good idea.
Any indication who the guests will be?
PRIVI – You have a point (a good one). But my real point is that Rupe, the supposed paladin of capitalism (despite the nepotism within his organisation) looks like he’s going to have a real blast of competition (see blogs from “Jon” above) for once.
privi izumo
don’t you think that it will make them more feral. They will start accusing the govt of censorship.
Hippy soup drinker hey
Little Creatures pale ale is a nicer beer IMHO.
Why I have no faith in winning this fight with News is twofold.
Half the Australians bought it hook line and sinker.
Our economy is going great guns. Imagine if we were in the doldrums like the rest of the globe. News Ltd’s narrative for the past 12 months, has been that this is the worst govt ever. Blah Blah Blah. Yet, we have outperformed the rest of the world.
This govt is not going to get a break from them.
News Corp ain’t gonna support this govt while it keeps rolling out the NBN;
This govt can’t stop rolling out the NBN;
So this News Corp ain’t gonna support this govt;
So this govt has no incentive to be nice to News Corp.
However, I’m not sure that the government should “attack” News Corp. It doesn’t want to look like its being distracted or getting into vendettas. Rather, it should clearly and dispassionately point out (when appropriate) that News Corp clearly has an agenda, which is to bring down the government.
In other words, don’t “attack” them. Rather “isolate” them.
A mighty fine drop, jv.
Coopers is a very good example where the products themsleves have been responsible for a great success.
“Lunatic soup”, if you don’t mind.
jon
Having worked for several weeks in Perth last year said drop became the clear favorite.
Little Creatures is OK for one or two. No good for a decent session though – too much louche flowery hopping on top.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/conroys-net-filter-still-alive-and-kicking-20100910-1540s.html
Why won’t this disgusting policy just die. I really hope Conroy is shown the door (he won’t of course)
It’s why I’m here. I lived in the US for 10 years, but I’m Aussie-born and moved back to Oz a few years ago. My missus is a Yank – an American refugee who fled the Bush administration, and hasn’t looked back. She’s a Fulbright scholar with a postgraduate degree, who loves living here in Australia. Sometimes the brain drain works the other way.
victoria
I have no idea who will be guests on the Contrarians today.
James J
Don’t worry about it. Conroy has to stick to his guns. Otherwise he is seen as backflipping. This will die a natural death.
We have a method of controlling feral client scope creep using vicious stabbing at the hip pocket nerve. Works every time. Exposure of seedy dealings and inflicting bottom line cost are the only method that will work, appeasement is not an option.
BK
I ask because if I am guaranteed that Bolt or Piers are not on, I will venture a look in.
al palster @2651 …
I’m thinking Oakeshott needs to say no to the ministry if only to defuse the criticism he’s copping from the coalition and in his own electorate and to preserve his ‘independence’ … he’s in a powerful position regardless …
I know people (most of them retired) who vote Labor, and buy the Daily Telegraph just for the news. They aren’t influenced at all by the DT’s inveterate Labor-bashing. They’ve bought the paper for so long that it’s become a habit.
When does O decide, anyone know? Oh yeah & I send a comment to that Christian zealout’s site with the Tag Gezzabelle – so you can guess the sort of message I left – bet it’s not published!
@ Rosa and Victoria
News has a lot of influence via redneck radio who have a large audience. I was listening to 2gb @ 04:00 and they quote exclusively from the o o’s . Alan Jones does this as well as giving their journos airtime daily. Every person in this country knew about the [Waste,Boats,Batts] fiasco for the govt. Furthermore News has signaled it’s intention to go hard at the govt on everything. Low unemployment figures were reported as interest rate rises imminent !
BK
A terrific Aussie company. The way the Cooper family went about firstly protecting their company from takeover by the dark raiders of the Federation; and since then developing and sandbagging it from further raids is a great lesson. Their advertising has been superb and perfectly focussed. For example the association with Rockwiz on SBS.
Paul J
Yes, agreed. So what realistically can the govt do?
Good. Time to bin this dog turd of a policy.
Censorship? There’s no censorship of question time. Why bother answering liberal flunkies, when you can simply answer the question from the guy himself. The fox network is the media arm of the conservatives. Treat it as such and isolate them.
It serves no purpose treating them like a news organisation when they’re clearly not one. You achieve as much by responding to the chaser… and at least the chaser is funny.
Well my overflowing recycling bin says the contrary
The Bright Ale is a little over the top on the hopping. Still nice for a few though.
Under Howard and Rudd, the ministries didn’t mean much – prestige and not much power.
It should improve under JG, but I can’t see the attraction, when weighed against the problems.
Even Cooper’s beer has improved again after a small lapse after they 1st moved locales
I see Sen. X was advising O against taking a ministry
Dr Bogan, Oakeshott is making his announcement late this afternoon
@ Victoria
As Tingle mentioned enquiry into Melb Storm and then BoB Brown heading a committee to review foreign media ownership laws in this country with reference to News’s problems in the UK.
Me too Dr Bogan. I really hope they publish mine.
I doubt Oakeshott is scared of Joyce at all.
Sure he doesn’t
. Standard politician line.
James J@2682
This proves Conroy really is a far-right religious zealot – shoulder to shoulder all the way with his co-sponsor fruitcakes, the Australian Christian Lobby.
Given the perfect opportunity to let it die a natural death, he keeps going like the Energiser bunny.
Conroy should be banished to a desert island with no music, together with that other amoebic priest from Florida who wants to burn the Q’uran.
I note also that the Abbot as Hitler youtube has been censored for copyright reasons too, bloody free trade agreement with US has really f…d up copyright for educational purposes as US earns so much from its favourable copyright regulation maintain the rage against extension of this unders TRIPs
victoria
I don’t think Peter van Onsolen has ever had either if those two clowns on, so it’s probably safe to have a look.
Paul J
We will see what happens I suppose. I just don’t trust Murdoch and his minions. They are unscrupulous!!
BK
I thought they have both been on with PVO. Maybe I am confusing it with Agenda.
I will brave it and get a look in.
I love when Alan Jones called him Peter Van Insolent.
Abuse from Gloria would be regarded as praise.
Laura Tingle on Flikr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kathleenjoy/4975677542/
Unless it’s in a public dunny in London.
It will be interesting to see what position PVO takes on Abbott over then next 12-18 months. He was one of the few Liberal Insiders to take an anti-Abbott stance.
I have heard Jones was ‘deliberately barren’.
Thanks for that Cyril
I can’t quite figure if Conroy is a religious zealot or merely zealously enacting policy.
Help me out here.
Closed: Out to Lunch
Dr Bogan
Buon Appetit!!
I can’t top that one, jv!
Thanks Gaffhook.
Here is a PDF file version in case people want to print it (sorry about the page orientation!)
http://accidentalaustralian.bravehost.com/tinglemedia.pdf
cud chewer@2715
Come on, it isn’t difficult. He knows it’s bad policy in itself. He also knows it is electoral poison among the tech savvy. What’s left? That’s right, blind religious moralistic misguided zealotry.
One way of attacking their hip pocket as previously suggested was to insist all govt adds are placed online. this would severly cripple the cash flows of govt positions in news ltd papers. when I say attacking it needs to be done in a measured way and not be distracted. however I do not think they can leave allegations unchallenged – that was done with the BER and News ltd went to town.
Jon @2686,
Agree that inflicting bottom line cost is the only method that will work, but how to make that happen….
Over time changes like the NBN will hopefully inflict some pain.
Cutting back on Government Advertising (which Abbott’s PS freeze would have achieved anyway) would also help.
An organised boycott of companies that advertise in the OO would also help, but would take some effort to get off the ground.
The only possible reason it can still exist is to placate Fielding.
Well that’s done Labor a lot of good over the past three years.
The only reason it exists is to appease the Christian lobby.
Conroy might just think it is good policy.
—ducks—
@2719, thanks for that. Its good to see the beginnings of a backlash against news limited. I just fear there isn’t enough competency/professionalism needed to systematically fight it.
I like the symmetry in this phrase
I just watched Wayne Swan’s interview from the Today show yesterday. Lisa Wilkinson’s effort was just plain embarrasing.
Firstly, she claimed Labor had lost the 2PP vote, lost on primary vote and had less seats than Labor. Wayne Swan corrected here and pointed out the count was still going on and Labor would likely win the 2PP vote. But no, that didn’t stop Lisa, according to her the final 2PP was 49.9 Labor to 50.1 Liberal and this was according to the AEC. Swan kept explaining to her the count was still taking place and on it went. This kind of idiocy really does boggle the mind.
Yes, but whose blind religious moralistic misguided zealotry?
Problem here is I see Conroy as someone who could happily push a very much stupid and hated policy purely because he believes in the party and its policies, however they came to be. Julia is an atheist and still pushes several policies she clearly doesn’t believe in. Its testament to the power of the number crunchers going yes that’s gonna lose us votes, but it’s gonna lose us more votes with this other mob if we don’t.
Lateline tonight. Laura Tingle and Mega G (George Megalogenis)
The Oz needs a national political contest or policy brawl to raise/maintain its circulation.
Its positioning on issues is best seen through this prism.
Without a fight, circulation is miserable.
When they picked a fight on cc/ets their readership went up. Then they did the same on the mining tax to maintain their readership.
Stable governance = declining sales.
So the had the chain of events to boost their readership- CC/ETS/#spill/SpartacusTony/Miningtax/#spill2/election/hung/KOW/Rainbowcoalition
If Gillard governs well and puts the nation to sleep for a while the Australian is toast.
I dont see a Murdoch conspiracy I see a sales conspiracy.
jaundiced view?
Sounds like he is trying to stop something you apparently “enjoy” doing!.
.
interesting tweet from Turnbull, seems like he still wants to contribute to the ETS debate – a shame Abbott has said that coalition MPs will not participate on the new Climate Change Committee.
it would be karma if Abbott gets wedged on climate change
Under such circmstances Ministers should say “Listen, when you can get your facts right then try asking some questions. Until then, this interview is finished.”
They are rendered defenceless.
I am not sure you can drive in a wedge with a Blancmange of a climate policy.
Well the filter has buckley’s of getting through, so being seen to be trying may be an attempt to appease the nutters of God without actually having to implement anything. Old fashioned having your cake and eating it too.
Unfortunately, said minister would be perceived as cranky and uncooperative. Never a good look, no matter how justified.
I hope that the first order of business once the new Senate sits in July next year will be sweeping reform of media ownership laws, as follows:
1 100% exclusion of foreign investment in newspaper or magazine publishing or printing, cable networks, satellite broadcasting, free-to-air tv, radio broadcasting and broadband communication products
2 Immediate divestment requirements to be imposed on foreign investors on the proclamation of such a law
3 Prohibition on any one person or corporation owning more than 5% of:
any one metropolitan newspaper, or
any two regional newspapers, or
any one metropolitan free-to-air tv broadcasting license, or
any two regional free-to-air tv broadcasting licenses, or
any one cable broadcasting network, or
any one satellite broadcasting license, or
any one metropolitan radio broadcasting license, or
any two regional radio broadcasting licenses, or
any one internet or broadband based news, entertainment or advertising service
This will ensure an enormous increase in the diversity of ownership of media and communications assets, and greatly liberalize the market for advertising products as well as encourage real diversity on the presentation of news, opinion, entertainment and information.
4 There should be a clear distinction drawn between the ownership and supply of telecommunications technologies, such as telephony, satellite, internet and broadband systems, and the the supply of news, entertainment and advertising products, and
5 A general prohibition on the owners of telecommunications technologies from also supplying news, entertainment and advertising content on their systems. This would, for example, prevent owners of broadcasting networks also owning sporting codes or the rights to market sporting events.
This should be done at the first opportunity. It will forever break up the media monopolies in Australia, which have been a great burden on advertisers and a blight on politics and public affairs generally.
I also think there should be a requirement for balanced reporting of news and so-called commentary, so that all news, public affairs comment and political reporting be strictly required to observe a balanced content code. I think that if
You gotta wonder. But nothing will appease the religious nutters until we have a theocracy.
BK, I laughed when after Swan pointed out that there was still 8 seats to be included and Labor would probably end up in front, she switched to the following, wtte “well you suffered a five percent swing against you”. Swan then pointed out that was primary votes and in 2PP terms labor had sufferd a 2% swing. She the complained about him using 2PP!
Inside Story special on minority governments in Australia. You wouldn’t know it from the media hysteria, but there’s been loads of them…
http://inside.org.au/the-fabulous-fiftieth-nsw-parliament-and-other-minority-governments/
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/industry-sectors/tanner-joins-lazard-bank-as-policy-adviser/story-e6frg96f-1225916753295
madcyril
It’s just so shallow and pathetic!
briefly @2738, sounds like a nice list. I wonder which of those could be politically doable?
Tell her to check the Virtual Tall Room figures, the Libs are 23,000 behind ATPIT.
Watch how British M.P. Chris Bryant deals with Sky News interviewer regarding News Ltd tapping M.P.’s phones. The despicable Yank Murdoch would be more honest if he called the OO the American.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDYalpZhG_8
yes i did try, but there was once criteria re the tick ect. that well just did not fit how i felt so that was that i could nt continue
Thanks to all the bludgers who commented on my piece earlier. JV, Oz Pol tragic, Itep, BH, sorry if I’ve forgotten anyone.
JV, I did send an email copy to the three rural Indies and Bob Brown.
cud chewer
Is that a pun? – if so, not bad.
Kate Lundy reported that the filter originated meetings between Conroy and the ACL. The ACL was given advance details of the “trial” before anyone else. It is either a misguided attempt to win votes – of the infamous focus group variety, or a bit of zealotry by Conroy. I’ve long suspected his religious associations. I think he’d rather dei than keep his policies secular.
Maybe it was like this:
Scene:
Circle of 6 randomly selected (by the ACL) churchgoers from the Hills district of Sydney sitting with Mark or Karl in the chair.
Karl/Mark: “If the government introduced an internet filter, would you vote Labor?”
Answer in unison: “Oh, yes. Oh, yes we would. Praise the Lord and hellelujah!”
Email later from Karl/Mark to Conroy: You must cuddle up to the ACL and introduce a mandatory internet filter. It will win us the religious vote. Voluntary if you like
Email from Conroy to Mark/Karl: No problem. Way ahead of you. I’ve already danced around the sacrificial goat with the ACL on the filter. But it has to be mandatory – we read it in the blood of the beast.
My answer to murdoch would be in part accelerating the NBN. This will eventually break foxtel and it hasten the decline of printed newspapers and it will encourage people to go looking for more diverse sources of news online – especially all the new IPTV channels that will pop up once enough people have a decent connection.
Briefly @ 2738
You really are in cloud cuckoo land!!
By the time you work through your list you will have one telecommunications provider (Telstra) as Optus and AAPT would be knocked out … and two media providers .. the ABC and SBS … as no media outlet in the country would be viable as there would be no economies of scale.
Besides that , the level of sovereign risk implied by such a scheme would put any conjecture reagrding the mining tax in the shade.
Money from sales is but a small part of the pie, circulation serves only to set the price for advertising with the added bonus that it gives you influence. Smoke em out by tendering government advertising as a fixed contract. There are ways the government can apply subtle pressure both directly and by using the greens as cover.
Of course, Conroy may just be trying to make sure that censorship laws are consistent across all forms of media.
Or is that too simplistic?
Not particularly fair. I’m not sure the more zealous parts of the religion would support his views on surrogacy. The fact that he’s from the right faction is well known, but not a crime (as much as you’d like it to be).
BK
A bit like Malcolm Fraser recently, who complained to the ABC interviewer that it was not her role to provide “balance”, when some Liberal party person was not available
(Feels so funny writing that…a Liberal party person to balance Malcolm Fraser!)
I thought Swan handled the interview well. He didn’t let the errors through. I did think he might have liked to have pointed out that Howard suffered worse in terms of the vote numbers in 1998. But maybe the Labor party are trying to avoid that look. He kept getting back to the fact that Labor accepted they had been given a message by the people etc.
Pretty much
.
Aristotle@2748
Good stuff – they need all the support they can get, as tough as I suspect they are.
I missed getting it to Oakeshott – he apparently needs a new site enlarged to match his changed circumstances.
Wrong. As discussed here last night, the last federal minority government was Curtin’s first ministry, which far from collapsing “in internal disunity and scandal” was returned at the 1943 election with a majority in its own right.
And please remember, Conroy is no zealot – when he had the laws on surrogacy and IVF changed in Victoria (and yes, it was his initiative) he also had them extended so that lesbians and single mothers had the same rights as couples.
billy @2746
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDYalpZhG_8
I would like to see more of our pollies defend themselves like this,
I think the majority voices in both the H-o-R and the new Senate all have a very clear political interest in this kind of reform. They face a relentless, hostile campaign in the print media, cable news and radio platforms and can only benefit from dismantling the media empires. They should do it. If they have the nerve, it can be done very easily. Advertisers will approve, because there will be real competition in the market, and the public will approve because there will be more variety and integrity in publishing generally. The public should demand this.
Cud chewer @ 2750
You seem to ignore that there need to be authoritative sources of news on line. There is not only a demand side there also needs to be a supply side. There needs to be infrastructure or news and information as we know becomes atomised with no rigour and no responsibility. At the end of the day, it is just a recipe for ignorance and conjecture. There is nothing to stop anybody starting a media organisation especially in these days of online communication but there is still the basic problem of making it pay.
hs this been on the news here in aust,
If you don’t already, bookmark and follow The Guardian (centre left; usually backs Labour but, this year, backed LibDems) and The Independent (some will remember the famous pre-election invasion of the Independent’s office and threats by James Murdoch & minders – seriously No Love Lost there.
Here’s The Indie’s latest on the erupting scandal involving David Cameron’s Murdoch “minder” (Andy Coulson) and illegal tapping of thousands of celebs (inc members of the Royal Family) during his watch as News of the World (NoW’s) sub/editor.
Enjoy it! Rupert & James Murdoch went to such great lengths to ensure their boy Cameron won UK2010: leaning heavily on & openly campaigning against the BBC; getting Coulson in as his media chief; trying to rough up any other opposing media; launching a campaign of denigration against LibDem leader Nick Clegg; chucking tantrums over the referendum to reform voting (inc introducing PV) that watching the fallout from Yesterday’s unanimous decision to launch a parliamentary inquiry that you’ll be sharing the fallout with readers from UK & USA as well as Oz. No matter how bad things are, that should put a grin on your face (it will ours)!
Commons declares war on ‘media barons and their red-topped assassins: New parliamentary inquiry will have the power to force senior newspaper executives to give evidence
billy @2746, damn! I’d love to see more media bimbos over here treated exactly like that
My latest email to NINE
@zoomster – that Pope wannabe? I doubt it.
—
On Murdoch, I don’t think the new anti-siphoning laws are going to go his way, which is why he continues to stir things up. If i was the government I would 1) shift all government ads to the internet and the Canberra Times, 2) And seek new “disclaimer” laws to ensure that all news outlets report truthfully, 3) eliminate shows like Insiders and The Drum on the ABC. Where journalists and political commentators are given more voice than they should. Opinions other than those coming from politicians should not be funded in order to maintain impartiality. 4) scare the bejesus out of Murdoch by saying the ABC would start a national daily newspaper.
zoomster
Not just simplistic; but also completely wrong, both in intention and effect. After all the discussion here and the links provided about it, you know that too. It isn’t worth starting another war about it just to defend your mate Conroy. It’s over. Won’t happen.
Next we’ll have the usual loyalists trotting out the “If you oppose the filter, then you must be a porn lover” line that Conroy himself kicked off last year.
Of course, it should be permissible to own communications systems – such as those provided by the telcos – but not to also supply the news, information and advertising content delivered on those systems. So, It would not be possible for, say, Telstra to own both internet communications technologies and Crikey.com. They could one or the other, but not both.
The sovereign risk argument in relation to foreign ownership of media companies is neither here nor there. We have a far more important risk to deal with. The sovereignty of our Parliament is being jeopardized by the partisan, commercially-driven self-interest of a global media monopoly. We should expel them from the media and communications sector.
Does anyone here know what the attitude of the independents is to the filter?
I would have thought under the new political circumstances that the Internet filter will have been quietly laid to rest never to raise its ugly head again.
Oakeshott is against the filter.
Don’t know about the other two, but Katter being the all round “freedom fighter” he is I don’t see supporting personally?
Rosa – Possum used to tell us that the OO was ineffective but look how successful they were with helping Abbott on the BER waste. I no longer believe they are ineffective because every other media outlet picks up what they are writing.
Doesn’t really matter the independents view on the filter. It’s not getting through the Senate if it involves legislation and if is just a regulatory change it’ll be disallowed in the Senate. It’s dead and Conroy needs to stop clinging to its rotten, stinking corpse.
Hell yeah – bring it on!
blackburnpseph….
Media enterprises will make money, even as small stand-alone businesses. They will not be able to charge extortionate rates for advertising and they will not be able to squeeze each other out of business, but they will be viable. Even some very small radio stations, newspapers and tv broadcasting businesses make money.
ltep
You are usally so dispassionate
Yep and tell Swannie and Julia to stop telling us they’ve got the message. It’s driving me insane as much as apology for insulation did. It’s been said now get on with it.
Just tell us the positives of where they would like to take us in the next 3 years.
Conroy is likely to feel vindicated, NBN saving the government and all that, like I said I think its sop to the God squad that will die in the senate.
Is our postal system censored? The phone system?
4.15 Oakshott presser starts………
OzPol @ 2765
Many thanks. This looks like it has taken off and will spread. Good.
Talk about the agony and the ecstasy
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/greens-son-jailed–for-drug-crime-20100910-1542h.html
My say, not to my knowledge.
I would hate to see newspapers disappear,would much rather they employed real journalists and let them get on with their work. Instead Media owners provide a right-wing gravy train for selected sycophantic hacks as a kind of partisan welfare for the likes of Bolt, Akerman, Milne, Henderson etc., so long as they continue to spew out their hateful but boringly predictable right-wing rants.
Today’s release of the latest NAPLAN results has led me to evaluate the literacy and numbercy skills of members of the LNP
At year 7 level, the minimum standard requires students to be able to generally structure a story to include a beginning and a complication, although the conclusion may be weak or simple. Students typically include sufficient information for the story to be easily understood by the reader and there is usually development and elaboration of ideas which all relate coherently to a central storyline.
At year 5 level, by constrast, students at ter minimum standard generally write a story with a few related ideas which are not well elaborated, and attempt to create a clear context by providing brief descriptions of the characters and/or setting. The vocabulary used is usually simple.
Clearly some LNP members, the better one, are able to operate at Year 5 level, with Year 7 something of a tretch. STop the Boats. End the Waste. etc
Briefly
Sovereign risk in an open globalised economy is definitely a here and now issue, especially as we are a country dependent on foreign capital. I do not disagree that we need a broad range of media outlets, and online communications allows that to happen. However, we do have to live with the decisions of cross media ownership and concentration made by governments past – both ALP and Coalition. One issue not raised is that in an organisation like Fairfax, journalistic standards have been sacrificed to the bottom line. Like it or not, The Australian provides the greatest volume of high standard mainstream journalism in the country on a daily basis, my worry is that once Rupert shuffles off the mortal coil that The Oz will either be closed down or dumbed down so that the bottom line improves. The old media proprietors of which Rupert really is the last maintained the quality of their newspapers.
yes i would love all the labor ministers to see the above.
Should that be ‘soliloquy’?
The reason I mention the independents is that I’d rather the filter die in the house or reps than trust that the Fibs will vote it down in the senate.
Nice work VP
OzPol 2765
Thanks I will indeed enjoy watching that unfold. A British Parliamentary Inquiry into Murdoch newspaper practices – delightful, considering how long and painstaking such processes usualyl are. There will be months of embarrasement
Any chance the Aussie Lib advisors who went over to help the conservatives will be involved? We can only hope.
I’d rather that than a soundbite
Lisa Wilkinson is married to Peter Fitzsimons, and to the best of my knowledge, both of them aren’t paid up members of the Abbott media cheersquad.
I’d assume Lisa is under pressure from her employers at Channel 9 to push the anti-Labor line(her co-host Karl is in contrast a pro-Abbott man).
VP, sadly too many voters operate at Year 3 level.
So, what’s the betting?
Will Oakeshott accept the PM’s offer?
ALP 24k ahead on TPP at last look. Well last look at AEC figures not LNP figures obviously.
LNP NAPLAN numeracy
Here, unfortnately I think we would have to agree thatt he LNP struggles to achive Year 7 status (perform calculations involving key percentages or addition and subtraction of decimal numbers with the same number of decimal places. ) but, with some charoty can be said to have reach Year 5 status (recall addition and subtraction facts of small numbers – although the claim that their 72 seats is nore than the ALP’s 72 seats can only be allowd if we agree that 72 is not a small number.)
blackburnpseph, what we have been observing is the calculated, systematic and orchestrated corruption of our electoral and constitutional processes by New Ltd. They should be required to divest their assets.
This really is a case where concentrated corporate power is being wielded with the plain intention of dislodging a duly constituted Government. It is outrageous. The Government of the country is not something to be toyed with by a NY monopolist for any reason. The underlying issues are probably just about control of the media market and advertising income in Australia. In other words, the posture of News Ltd is driven by greed.
The Parliament of the country should not be an asset on the balance sheet of New Corp.
There should be wholesale reform.
cud, if the Liberals fold on the filter it’ll pass through both houses easily.
Ari wrote a good piece here the other suggesting that when the media does something like this we should let them know by email, not in a derogatory way, but pointing out they are wrong and that we need to be informed factually or some such. Virtually said they don’t like to be seen as fools but also won’t take any kindly to pure denigration and will scrap it before giving it thought.
Did anyone keep that reference – or perhaps Ari can post it again and I’ll print it off to stick on the desk, read it constantly and follow it.
I think he will but am not sure he should.
evan14, I think that whole interview was more stupidity than conspiracy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/09/george-osborne-cut-4bn-benefits-welfare
is the team / dem/ lib going to last in the uk
its different to here, labor/ greens have similar thoughts on pensions so lab want be doing that.
are these two really like liberal and the democrats , putting aside the gst though.
i doubt the dems there would be like the greens
Someone may like to let us know whom they come close to here.
One would think the british people would of thought about this one
The moment there is any denigration the receptionist will just delete it.
Are any of the agencies taking bets on when the presser will finish?
blackburnpseph 2787
You should work in the advertising industry conflating dissimilar arguments like that! Australia’s sovereign risk is virtually zero. The government has a tiny debt (6% of GDP) and effectively no net debt, due to having creditors and assetts. The balance of payments is now back in surplus, so no problem for private cash supply either. Even if it was, media ownership is such a tiny fraction of the overall economy (perhaps a few tens of billions in a trillion dollar economy) that it would be absurd to compromise overall monetary policy to suit the media interests from an economic viewpoint.
As for standards in The Australian, I don’t read it any more, but I would observe that for reporting arts, science (except climate change) and foreign events not related to Israel, yes it was a good paper. But for economics and politics it was both biased and remarkably uninformed. You might as well go straight to the Liberal Party website and download their pressers for yourself. Try going back in The Australian archives to before September 2008 and see how clever they were at predicting or understanding the GFC. Murdoch sacked a lot more journos than Fairfax in the past two decades, and it shows.
Peter Fitzsimons,
did he write a book about kim Beasley
Hrmm.. yes ltep, you’re right. I need more sleep
5.27 Oakshott presser concludes…..?
You know, we have the situation now where the Liberal Party is a partly-owned subsidiary of New Corp, while the National Party is an almost wholly-owned subsidiary of Clive Palmer’s Mineralogy Pty Ltd.
The political process in this country is on the road to becoming a sham: a charade played to the script of a handful of incredibly wealthy individuals who will readily subordinate our most important institutions to their private commercial interests.
The Parliament should stop them while they have the chance.
There should be media reform, campaign finance and party-donation reform as a matter of national interest.
I hope Oakshott & Windsor have hired extra security for themselves & their families, because the anger being whipped up by the Fibs and the MSM might persuade some loony tunes right wing idiot to do something stupid.
I’m not defending anyone when it comes to the filter, and I’m not necessarily for it.
It’s just that, despite repeated debates here, I haven’t seen much convincing argument against it.
I repeat: if you’re against all forms of censorship, on all forms of media, then I respect your opposition to the filter.
If you’re trying to argue, however, that other forms of mass media should be censored but the net shouldn’t be (and the argument rarely seems to get beyond ‘because I say so”) then I don’t.
And, for the record, I have never used any reference to kiddie porn in the argument.
The anti filterites generally sound like internet NIMBYs to me.
The only argument which holds any water as far as I’m concerned is the one about speed, and it appears that that’s largely speculative at present.
Chris Mitchell would appear to be deaf to sarcasm.
Labor should get a few of the ministers in more junior portfolios to start bouncing journalists on the crap they go on with (step forward Craig Emerson). But Julia and Swan should, so far as possible, stay above the fray. Indeed, when asked about media bias, Julia should just smile benignly and say the govt is getting on with the job without worrying about distractions, etc etc. Nobody likes a narky PM.
Nothing wrong with beating up a few journalists. But it is important to make sure that the right people do the job.
It is possible that the News Ltd’s phone tapping, as a news gathering strategy, has migrated down under, being they did not get the access they expected from Rudd. They did every thing else that they could to destroy him, so why not?
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/chris-bryant-mp-my-onair-spat-with-sky-newss-kay-burley-2075473.html
the story after the video re uk phone story.
this reminds me of what my spiritually minded friend mentioned to me two weeks ago about the negativity going and karma taking place.
Too funny. “Smugglers feared Abbott victory” is my personal favourite.
zoomster @2814,
While you might expound on your ideas about it because the rest of your post doesn’t really give one much to go on.
As my brother used to say “sounds like a personal problem to me”
We’ve been down this road before. The attributes of the filter itself have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the attributes of the people who support or oppose it.
See above
See my first comment. I’ve not seen you construct a rational argument for or against the filter.
Again, you seem to be hung up about people, not the filter.
That exposes the superficiality of your thinking.
Looks like the blogosphere’s got new competition…
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/10/tuckey-2-0-ironbars-foray-into-the-blogosphere/
Tuckey “2.0″ to get a blog…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDYalpZhG_8
Thanks, Billy. Sunlight on a cold, blustery, fogged-in wet day.
Hope Julia & her “Rainbow Coalition” watched and are following the House of Commons revolt. If you haven’t found it, there’s an inspiring article, also in The Independent. Steve Richards: Welcome to a more vibrant Commons: Excitement is in the air. For the first time in many years, MPs have the power to challenge – and in some cases to stop – proposals from going ahead
Definitely something the new Government should take on board.
We have a very highly concentrated media ownership structure. This should be dismantled. There is no reason why reform should not be undertaken. When it comes to the global media market and our ability to attract capital, I think we are on safe enough ground.
What we should be saying is our Parliament and our electoral and Constitutional processes are robust and will not be dictated to by a NY monopolist. It seems to me that such action, rather than diminishing our standing in the word, would do us a lot of good.
By what perverse construction of things does Rupert Murdoch believe he is entitled to up-end the Parliament? By virtue of what great right does he think he should be able to do challenge and then corrupt the time-honoured processes on which we rely?
He has no such rights, simply a position of power and privilege. His interests are in conflict with the rights and interests of ordinary people and we should call for reform while we have the opportunity.
Grog made fun of the media having to wait … God forbid! … 17 minutes to hear Oakeshott’s decision. Thank God for Grog, Aristotle, Possum Ad Astra and others like them for pulling the journos apart. Grog and Possum take the mickey out of them on twitter and it makes for entertaining reading at times. Samantha Maiden particularly doesn’t like it.
What do you mean? I’d oppose handing the Executive power to censor the internet in any country.
Exactly what problem are we trying to fix and can it be fixed in a better way that doesn’t hand the Executive too much control? These are the primary questions that need to be answered.
Fitzsimons wrote Beasley’s biography. They are also good firends.
Wilkinson has hosted/MCd Labor Party functions.
What about the cost of doing something that is useless?
What about the potential for its abuse?
What about the false sense of security it will give parents?
Net Filter
Despite the intense opposition, Senator Conroy is pushing ahead with the filter and has revealed “a suite of transparency measures to accompany the policy and ensure people can have faith in the RC content list”, a spokeswoman said.
“The government does NOT support Refused Classification material being available on the internet. This material includes child sexual abuse imagery, bestiality, sexual violence and detailed instruction in crime,…”
Given Google plus 3 main ISP’s (Telstra Optus and Primus) hav said they can comply with conroys filter , and that will comply with Conroys filter , AND given definitons issue of RC is to be satissfactory adressed , AND given transparency issueJluia had promised to improve….I fail to see legit objections to a net filter
unless peoples wish to defend th libartariem rites of sick people incl pedofiles wanting to watch such filth in there own homes , good luck getting community suport for such morons
It is not a religous issue much as some zealot anti filterers want to spin it that way , but a decensy & security issue I wish there was more consenus in overcoming peoples concerns so we get a fair net filter to do good I expect Liberals in time to suport a net filter
ltep, the fundamental issue about the filter is about whether a group of people with a particular view should impose their view on others. The filter is an extension of the same thinking that brought us the suicide of Alan Turing and is brought to us by people who share a common philosophical root with the theocracies of the Taliban and Iran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_indecency
ltep, the fundamental issue about the filter is about whether a group of people with a particular view should impose their view on others. The filter is an extension of the same thinking that brought us the suicide of Alan Turing and is brought to us by people who share a common philosophical root with the theocracies of the Taliban and Iran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_indecency
zoomster @ 2814
What a mealy-mouthed and grossly disingenuous ramble. Rather than waste time telling you again what you already know, I’ll link the facts once again. You won’t look at it but those new here not rusted onto Stephen might.
http://libertus.net/censor/isp-blocking/au-govplan.html
It must be very difficult for Lisa Wilkinson. She knows what the Ch9 policy is and how RW Karl Stefanovic is. How does she balance that. Same for Uhlmann except that McKew did it perfectly. She treated them all the same way and perhaps should be appointed to the ABC Board to rewrite the journos ‘balance’ agenda.
davo1943@2547
A range of IPTV LED TV’s are also available overseas, particularly South Korea for example.
The only reason they haven’t been offered here is because of the crappy broadband speeds and the very restrictive download allowances telcos have offered.
But that is going to change and very quickly.
Hope NBN Co ups the rollout timetable of the NBN so that if there is an early election or a change of government because of a VNC etc its gone too far to stop.
But the unhinged one would just sell it to murdoch or telstra and we would be back to where we started from.
BTW if turnbull become shadow minister for telecommunications he is going to have a huge conflict, arguing about something he knows is in the national interest. Won’t stop him of course.
cud chewer
Indeed. It is precisely that historical thread in both major religions based on ignorance and superstition that drives the mandatory filter, and censorship and wowserism generally.
http://unbelief.org/articles/australias-theocratic-right/
Well I agree. But the simple answer to that but proponents of the filter is “Why not? They do it with other things.”. This is why I prefer to present the argument as the fact that their is no problem that exists that a mandatory filter is required to fix.
You can tell its a dull day politically when this site is full of comments about media bias and anti-filter rhetoric.
their = there of course.
Are they talking about the budgie variety?
@2833, you know that raises an interesting possible future. The NBN gets built or part built and at some stage, Abbott or one of his ilk succeeds in hoodwinking enough people to vote for him.
But, the Senate still remains with the Greens having BOP.
In that situation Labor would find itself having to reverse its present policy (if it hadn’t already) and vote to block the sale of the NBN. Ah.. I have such a black sense of humour..
@2836, oh I agree – the filter solves no problem. But I’d love to see ordinary people become more aware of the creeping influence of the hard core religious zealots. They see the ongoing opposition of gay marriage and wonder what all the fuss is about. But they don’t see the linkage between that and other issues.
ltep 2836
I think that is a good argument. The filter is a lot of work and potentially another bug slowing down computer systems. The burden of proof should be on those proposing it, that it will both be effective and not disruptive. So far I am convinced of neither.
The fall-back position.
I believe it was Gillard gloating about winning the TPP one day after the election while hundreds of thousands of votes were still left to be counted and Labor was only 0.05% ahead.
This was never a meme of the coalition and I never heard Tony Abbott say anything about TPP… it was GILLARD who said she deserved government because her party won the TPP.
The argument against it is exceptionally simple, even when you take the slightly murky ethical considerations of censorship out of it: It will not work . It will not stop the flow of illegal content. All it will do is lull people into a false sense of security and obscure the transfer of illegal content by pushing it into realms the police are unable to track. It will be counterproductive, it will fail to address the issues it is intended to and it will divert resources from policing. It really is that simple.
Just like Greg Hunt – he will sell his soul all to be leader of the Liberal Party. Of course he has to redeem himself with Goldman Sachs too because he failed to get the ETS it wanted. They were counting on all that lovely lucre. It will be interesting watching him if Labor and the Greens get a CC bill into Parliament.
What do people think about Lindsay Tanner getting a plush new board role on some obscure Merchant Bank?
Truthy,
you never answered my question of whether you think Katters idea to peg the Aussie dollar is a good one.
umm, no, she wasn’t gloating.
Again, she didn’t actually say that she “deserved” government on the TPP vote – nothing hinged on that. And whatever either Tone or Jules has said, our political democracy has worked exactly the way it was meant to.
where can we read their twitters
TTH – George Brandis said on election night that the 2PP was the most important number.
Haven’t read the full policy so can’t comment
why not,
As I pointed out before, Conroy is no zealot – his actions regarding IVF clearly demonstrate that. He could easily have pushed for the laws to be changed and for them to continue to exclude lesbians and single parents.
If anti filterites scorn ‘playing the man’ then why the constant attacks on Conroy?
The reason I didn’t go into arguments was that a previous commentator had stated that we’d already done it to death, and I respected that point of view. I was simply trying to lay out, without getting into the details of the debate, the problems I had with the way it was debated.
Given the posts above, I don’t really see that my view has been disproved.
All of this over the top comparisons to the Taliban etc weakens the argument, if anything (a bit like refences to the Nazis, and I’m sure some of you would have gone there but for the fear of Godwin’s).
The simple question hasn’t been answered – do you support withdrawal of all censorship of media, or do you simply think the internet should be treated as a special case?
(Oh, and as for the references to NIMBYism; I’ve had a lot to do, as a local councillor, with genuine NIMBYs. They begin with an emotional position on an issue and then construct arguments to support that. Sorry, but the arguments here against the filter seem to fit into that kind of mindset – and the people I’ve talked to who are anti filter are obviously driven by an emotional response rather than reason).
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/10/3008318.htm
article on tanner
He must have something that Costello doesn’t have.
THH
By “GILLARD” I presume you mean the Right Honouable the Prime Minister, Julia Gilard MP.
I thought little public school boys were always taught to have good manners.
I wonder if any plans that Rupert had to put his papers in Australia behind paywalls will have to be put on hold for the term of the Labor Govt. Will possibly be too hard to influence the next election with a total readership of just slightly more than nil. He can probably still rely on the private media but with luck the sledge hammer approach might take the ABC out of the equation. I hope that three years is the minimum term. Labor should start working towards 2113 now.
So you didn’t hear George Brandis on the BC election night say the Libs should govern because they were ahead on the 2PP?
BC = ABC
Some no-name backbencher.
The LEADER of the Labor Party said 1 day after the election Labor deserves to win because they got the most TPP.
If this isn’t the case, she will look like an idiot.
If you are going to make a statement, you’d wanna make sure it’s not in doubt first. Gillie made this claim when Labor was leading 50.05% on TPP with hundreds of thousands of votes still to count. STUPID
ah now that may be why she lost her seat, this her job in life.
o what karma
we should suggest it to Senator Brown.
Gos
Brandis was also involved in BC elections – that’s how old the LNP’s ideas are.
cud chewer
The ACL – Conroy’s brothers’ in arms on the filter is arguably a theocratic organisation too:
*shudder*
http://unbelief.org/articles/a-bunch-of-theocrats/
mysay –
http://twitter.com/latikambourke/journalists
and then you can open any other twitter link there.
Pretty stupid of her to have given us free will then.
TTH, you’re reminding why I banned you (ignorance and stupidity). George Brandis is the Shadow Attorney-General. Granted that I haven’t heard Abbott say it, but I HAVE heard Joe Hockey and Barnaby Joyce say it. So you’re at best overreaching in saying it was “never a meme of the coalition”.
TTH, so the F what? If she had also said “if it rains three days in a row we should be given government” should we go by that also? Enough with the pointless arguments.
At the end of the day our system is one where if Labor (or the Coalition) were to win 50.1% of the 2PP in every seat across Australia they would have 150 members in parliament. Full Stop.
George Brandis is Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate.
OMG, Christians support a filter!!
Well, we’d better not have one then.
Honestly, guys, you’re being silly.
TTH, your argument about Gillard is entirely correct, but you’re not doing that argument any favours by making up bullshit in support of it.
Senorita, i am trying my best as i have just ore-opened for business as well. After reviewing so many business plans this morning.
It was around 50.7% but it was still a silly comment to make.
Well Tony wouldn’t say it because the results too close to call.
Gillard called it 1 day after the election when they were barely over 50%. Thats a big call to make when you have hundreds of thousands(or was it still millions at that point) of votes to count.
If it had swung heavily into Lib territory, the “We got the most TPP so we deserve government” line would have been end game for Gillard.
George Brandis – Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Tough luck Truthy. Try another tack.
BTW who [is] leading the 2PP?
rang channel 7 because i was so angry and seeing gillard written on the bottom of the screen, we should make sure we let them all know what we think
You know i think all this is starting to have an effect.
O and has any one noticed last night the ABC news theme is different its well sort
of comprised, when are they going to stop tampering with our net work we the tax payer enough is enough had enough consider my taxes pay their wages, all of them
Paul Keating is chair of local Lazards where Tanner is going. lazrads have some NBN work
conflicts of interest all round IMHO
Oh yes and if it does end up with Libs 50.00001% TPP I can’t see the media not going to town with those comments.
But Brandis did. Nuff said.
They can go to town, the city and into the middle of the ocean for all I care. Doesn’t change the way our parliamentary system works.
You mean the progressive 2PP count? The ALP is by 20,000+ votes out of around 12 million. This is as meaningless as it was a week ago when the ALP was behind by between 1-10,000 votes.
if you dont give the Prime Minister s name respect i will ask william to ban you again.
Then say Tony Abbott wouldn’t have said it. Don’t say it “wasn’t a Coalition meme”, because it was. On top of which, Gillard’s offence is mitigated relative to the others by the fact that a) she qualified her statement (“Labor appears to have won the two-party preferred vote”) and b) she was very likely correct. The statements from the Coalition MPs who have been named were unqualified falsehoods.
Zoomster,
It’s about the technical efficacy of such an approach. What’s the point if all is doing is soothing the sensibilities of the ignorant?
Fair enough, but Gillard made it at her post-election speech in front of millions of viewers and a packed news gallery.
It’s not the sort of place or time that you can make off the cuff comments and not expect them to come back to haunt you. I saw it as one of Gillards worst misjudgements of the entire campaign.
Diog, tell us how much it has cost you so far?
Yes, but I’m sure that after counting has finished the Coalition will have a difference of opinion over the AEC’s “counting” assumptions
zoomster
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 2:43 pm | Permalink
As I pointed out before, Conroy is no zealot – his actions regarding IVF clearly demonstrate that. He could easily have pushed for the laws to be changed and for them to continue to exclude lesbians and single parents.
If anti filterites scorn ‘playing the man’ then why the constant attacks on Conroy?
All of this over the top comparisons to the Taliban etc weakens the argument, if anything (a bit like refences to the Nazis, and I’m sure some of you would have gone there but for the fear of Godwin’s).
The SIMPLE question hasn’t been answered – do you support withdrawal of all censorship of media, or do you simply think the internet should be treated as a special case?”
well put Zoom
my #2828 post addressed th multitude of alleged anti filterers concerns , but instead of re-addressing them filterers rebuts seem to rely on emotion , or anti religion , or big Brother , or norty Conroy , or Tailaban or th generic libartarien rites of sick viewers of such filth/security dangerous Net stuff
If they oppose all such ‘CURRENT law enforsed censorship’ of Films and video as well , then anti filterers should just say so up fronts
If Abbott had won about 52% of the TPP then he would probably
be PM but he wasn’t good enough
TTH
Y-A-W-N
Truthy – I’m pretty sure Minchin said it as well
Finnigans @2886… cheeky
and Pyne.
If he won more seats maybe, but I doubt that would have changed the Independents views, they seem more interested in running their own agendas.
Finns,
How much has Diogs cost us by being on here during working hours asking how much the filter costs?
Weird huh? Them being ‘Independents’, and all.
Dr Bogan@2705
Dr Bogan – If you use the Firefox browser, there is an excellent plug-in called Keep Tube
which enables download of Utube stuff in very good quality – always choose the MPEG high Quality option.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/upgrade.html
http://keep-tube.com/
So when you hear of someting good – grab it while you can
Like supporting the party with better, properly costed policies? Heaven forfend.
Brandis made it on election night on TV with millions watching. So?
Super change of subject from truthy there as the going gets difficult. Had the nationals had the same agendas – getting better services and investment for the electorates they represent – then there wouldn’t have been any independents.
I think that was one of the National Party’s worst misjudgments of this and indeed many previous campaigns.
William, TTH is not correct. At the time Gillard made the statement, the ALP was projected to win. I have never seen a projection contradict this. All we have seen is the hysteria when the coalition took the lead
GG, i was just trying to be kind with Herr Doktor Diog.
when do we get the gillard pic in the banner?
ABC is refusing to consider my complaints on the spurious grounds that Vernula publicus is not my name.
How would they know.
Gus, is Gos your brother?
What a gas.
Finns – he could have given me 3 facelifts in that time!!
I’m perfectly happy for Truthy to mis-describe George Brandis QC, Shadow Attorney-General as “some no-name backbencher” because I don’t this week have to call him “Minister” or “Mr Attorney”.
#2903
Hadn’t given that any thought, Andrew. Eventually. That Labor have hung on to power resolves a dilemma for me – do I use the banner as an honour roll of prime ministers, or election winners?
People shouldn’t pick on Diogs about being on line now (says I who are also on line now).
If we assume that the average workers has to clock in 48 * 40 hours in a calendar year, then Senior Public Servants and Political Staffers passed that sometime in March or April this year. The rest we do out of love.
I am declaring from now that I am on:
STOP THE CRACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Watch.
Now i am starting with some of the leftoever liquid cement that i still have. So far, i have filled in the CRACK between Swannie and Her Maj over the Great Big New Mining Tax. Any assistance is welcome.
The Crack will always be wider under Labor to suck in the Wangkers
Apologies to Joe Hockey, if he’s reading. It turns out he had the sense to say only that the Coalition was “ahead” on two-party preferred. My animus is for those who have been claiming they had “won”.
blackburnpseph@2764
you are describing exactly what has gone on with the murdoch media and sadly the ABC as well……a recipe for ignorance and conjecture.
which we can borrow more cheaply than just about any other nation
What you wrote above is NOT the way overseas commentators/ economists see or report it; in fact, it’s quite the opposite.
Several newspapers (not all within the UK or English-speaking) print graphs following GFC matters like sovereign debt, cost of borrowing, key indicators – house/commercial sales/ rentals, employment and the like. Australia is almost always (I’d say “always”, but I didn’t see them all) the most successful of the developed nations. Usually, the accompanying article mentions (usually heaps praise on) Australia’s management of the GFC.
* BTW, we could, currently, borrow many times what we have, need & would like at the most favourable international rates, because
1. our sovereign debt is such a low % of GDP
2. so much was incurred to build much-needed national infrastructure
3. our bank regulation saved us from the worst NeoCon excesses which caused the GFC.
4. our budget will be returned to surplus ahead of most (if not all) developed nations.
Nor is it the way ordinary people in England saw it. Our assurance that we really were Australians (apparently we don’t sound broad enough) was frequently greeted with comments about how lucky we were to have survived the GFC so well, and what a pity etc. The more cuts Cameron’s ministers & other European leaders announced, the more we heard it.
You need to do more thorough, less biased research. Take a trip to Europe, UK, USA, where the GFC is shockingly obvious in government bank guarantee withdrawals, fading “for sale” & “to rent” signs; announcement of pension / pension fund cuts, public housing cuts, education cuts, health cuts, art & sport funding cuts; in soaring unemployment; in domino-like collapse of property & development companies, many with 100s, even 1000s of half-completed hotels/ homes/ apartments etc
BH, makes that 4
Filtering the Internet.
It won’t work.
The End.
Hey TTH
Updated: 10/09/2010 2:17:02 PM
Does the truth hurt TTH?
On this basis we would give up Democracy, Freedom,
zoomster@2870
But that’s the point. That’s the genesis (pun intended) of the idea – the theocratic ACL through Conroy – now with his inexplicably tenacious support against all reason. It must be his religion.
Bh,
If you’re up to 3 facelifts a day, how long before you’ve got a new moustache?
Election winners would make sense William.
You cheeky devil, Finn. I ain’t that bad – I hope.
GG – norty, norty. I’ll tell your wife!
I hope Oaky stays an Indie for his sake, as much as I would like to see him in a Labor Ministry. I don’t think his constituency would take too kindly to him going with Labor.
Hmmm…I wonder though if his electorate would like to have a gov’t minister as their representative? While the right may cause a rumpus over it, the constituency might see benefits in having their member as Minister for Rural and Regional Affairs. It is probably the only chance he may have of becoming a Federal Minister. So it is a distinct possibility he may take up the offer.
Barry O’Farrell has announced the NSW Opposition will not support Fred Nile’s bill to ban the burqa. Kristina Kenneally announced the Government’s opposition to it 2 weeks ago.
Googled “Vernula” and guessed “Publicus”? (I did, cos I’d forgotten “vernula’s” meaning)
What a load of old cobblers. Cannot see how anyone can describe anything in murdochs papers, particularly the OZ as *quality*. A far more accurate describtion is murdochs *personal vendetta sheet*.
But this debate is going to grow louder and louder and it boils down to, how dare a legally and democratically elected government put the nation interest above the commercial interests of foreign citizen murdoch.
That is what this is all about – murdoch is demanding a government of HIS choice. Well stuff him!
and a lovley name it is your mum must be very proud,.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/act-students-top-literacy-numeracy-tests/story-e6frfku0-1225917391795
ACT top, QLD bottom. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.
Perhaps junior minister or secretary; he’d need to learn the role.
Abbott didn’t seem to disagree with Alan Jones assertion that the Coalition had won the two party preferred vote. Can’t say I’ve seen him say they won the 2PP though
http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2010/09/08/Tony-Abbott-interview-with-Alan-Jones.aspx
There’s no way Oakeshott will accept anything less than a Cabinet position.
At that time Labor were leading only just over 50% on TPP. This was 1 day after the election with millions of votes still to count ad a ton of postals which usually go the Libs way.
Big call to make when you are using that as the primary basis for being PM with results being so close.
What we really need is a whistleblowing journo to come out and do an expose on systemic News Ltd bias
Good man BOF
Damn their impertinence!
TTH
It seems that your record is stuck in a groove. Get a new turntable.
I should add Nile claims he has been approached by members from both parties who support the bill.
VP
Technically, it is not possible. Maybe one day, like teleporting or a stairway to the moon, it could happen. Think about it. There are over 1 trillion webpages at the moment, how do you peruse, rank, list and block even the old ones, without the new ones that come on board every second? It is like Conroy coming out and saying “I am going to filter all the blue seaweed that comes to Australia’s shores.” So that is why I say ‘It won’t work. The End.”
Tony Abbott from his graceless concession speech.
“The coalition won more votes and more seats than our opponents but sadly we did not get the opportunity to form a government,” he said.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/tony-abbott-admits-disappointment-coalition-did-not-get-chance-to-govern/story-e6freuy9-1225915512964
Come on Truthy, is the most serious error of judgement Abbott made in the whole election. Get into him or your a hypocrite.
Is it a bad sign, that when I saw this headline, my first thought was why is a musical about Joe Hockey opening the Toronto film festival?
Hockey musical opens Toronto film festival
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/hockey-musical-opens-toronto-film-festival-20100910-154jy.html
GG, it’s true that the Coalition won more votes than Labor and the Liberal and National parties collectively hold more seats than Labor.
GG
Especially since Crook confirmed that he is not to be included as part of the coalition. He maintains he will sit on the cross benches.
TTH
You need to get a new recording.
When he said that he was talking about Primary votes… which he also mentioned in his post election speech.
Nothing wrong with that claim as they are miles ahead on primaries and it’s without doubt. Gillards claim is within doubt.
may be its the heat?
may be its the cold, tas out in the cold again o well we like to keep secrets
ltep,
So only Labor was their opponent?
What’s the rabble Coalition on about today?
Slackboy 72
The scholl test results mirror the elction results with the dumbest states and territories voting coalition and the smartest voting labor.
I’ve always said you shuld have an intelligence test to vote.
I’d ask one question? Are you intending to vote coalition.
A yes precludes you from voting. p:-)
Finns
It’s not costing you a cent. I’m in my private practice. I claim my time spent educating the ignorant here are a tax deduction though under the heading of charity work.
GG we should file this one for another day, may be send it on
No, but his statement was tehnically correct. Also meaningless. Who cares which party receives the most primary votes and which party receives more seats than others if neither wins a majority?
I agree with Fred Nile that Burqas should be banned from pornography sites.
The spelling and grammatical errors in my last post are for ironic effect (or not).
Dee
I think basically Barnaby Joyce is bullying Oakshott. Barnaby is daring him to accept a ministry. Oakshott should be making a decision soon.
William to add to your list Pyne was still this morning claiming that the coalition won the “preferred vote”. Marius Benson pointed out that they were approx 22,000 behind, and which point he said “you can choose whatever measure suits your argument”. Then spoke of seats(AGAIN including Crook as #73), and it was pointed out they didnt win enough seats. Sigh, but at least he was called on it
Lisa Wilkinson for one
gough1
I figured it was for ironic effect, but you can never tell. You may be from QLD.
Audio link to the above
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/newsradio/audio/20100910-pyne.mp3
I have posted this before but I think it is important when talking about Oakeshott’s future. Looking at Possum’s analysis of the vote in Lyne between 2007 and 2010. If we assume a 90% preference to him from ALP and Green’s, the Nats have to take back more than 80% of their disaffected voters who went to him this time. Given the amount of Pork we are swimming in and the poor performance of 60 years of National Mps – I think this is close to impossible. If he joins the government, I presume that the ALP and Greens will probably not run – which will make the nats target considerably harder. I think he is quite safe in Lyne.
Benson should’ve said “Well isn’t that what you’re doing?”.
How many hits have Nile’s staffers made to muslim sites in their research on the burqa?
ltep,
A wise person said, you can have your own views, but not your own facts.
The Libs and their sychophants seem to have made a song and dance about this issue, So, it obviously matters to them.
I’ll count the number of votes in Parliament as the most reliable measure of who won the election.
No the Greens got about 13% of the vote.
madcyril@ 2941 – don’t know about Hockey the Musical, but do you know Warren Zevon’s Hit Somebody: The Hockey Song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PokDj9u09A
seems pretty apposite to me when you listen to it …
And road laws don’t work, either, they’re broken every second. Let’s repeal them, they’re obviously worthless.
Oh, and Christians (I’m an atheist, myself) support laws against murder, better treatment of refugees, more housing for the homeless – better scrap all of those, too, because they’re suspect as well.
Honestly, I don’t mind you opposing the filter, but I do mind the level of silliness you descend to in doing it.
A couple of points -
1. None of you have dealt with the censorship question I raised. Why not?
2. I got into this because of the abuse of Conroy. Again, please explain why, if your arguments are based on rationality, the abuse of the Minister charged with delivering the policy is necessary?
Oakshott’s presser is at 4:15 – any guesses on when he will actually say if he is accepting a ministry? Or how many f words will be uttered from gallary before he gets there?
I’d like to see him go for a personal best time of 30 mins.
Oakshott Country
Barnaby and his cohorts are afraid that the indies will succeed in delivering for their electorates. Nothing more, nothing less. They want indies to fail and are trying to undermine them at every turn. The Nats survival depends on it.
slackboy72@2929
I’ll wait for Possum’s regression analysis…
Morgan Poll
Yeah I beat the gohostwhovotes
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2010/4580/
4:17
Greensborough Growler said,
In this era of botox, silicon, collagen and brazilian waxing, who knows what the hell would end up there.
(no reflection on BH, who I am certain is ALL woman)
victoria said,
I do need a new stylus for my aging turntable, does anyone know where they can be bought? So much vinyl going to waste.
I’d love to see Bob “The Hat” Katter up there
zoomster, road laws exist to solve a problem and provide the best means to solving that problem.
The mandatory filter won’t solve any problems that can’t be solved using other, less intrusive means.
If you want to have a stab at exactly what problem it seeks to address go for it.
Shows you what a terrible campaign the ALP ran
2958 Andrew – thanks! I’ve been hanging out for that all day!
How rude.
I’s form queesnland and my spellig is fine.
Its wasnt the length of Oakeshotts speech the other day that was the issue (but yes I was screaming at the tv), it was the lengths he went to to make it seem how close his decision was, when by all accounts he was leaning Labor more than W. It fact he was so ridiculous(“toss of a coin”) it made him look flaky and uncertain in his decision.
It’s a face to face Morgan people
Maybe bump some of our less memorable PM’s… Keating or Fraser.
victoria@2967
So the Nats have moved from complete indifference to their electorates to subversive hostility?
With the re election of the Gillard Labor Government, Australia is the election winner.
If my comments are always off subject it is because I am following along about 600 to 1000 blogs behind. I hope that with half a dozen Morgans later to make even less sense. Please take this as a Pre-apology.
But QLD has been the big improver. I put it down to the influx of families from the southern states boosting the average basically overnight.
Jon
No offence intended. Hey, we had a smart PM from Qld after all.
Alright Julia – back to the polls NOW
Its F2F but still a nice number. Lets say that again
Labor (54.5%) surges to lead ahead of L-NP (45.5%)
madcyril: another one for the musical, this time from a band actually called Hockey, the song is called “Too Fake” !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2kVL85X2Fc&feature=related
I’m glad you didn’t ask for the record to be flipped over as the B side only plays BOATS BOATS BOATS
Wow, they asked people how they voted at the 2010 election and they were 4.5% out.
OK, looks like its still 50:50 then.
This is pre “the decision”. The only way is up!
Someone’s coughing up a lung on ABC24
yes buts thats only 2PP, which as we all know doesn;t count for anything
Wonder if part of the up-tick in the Morgan poll is that voters feel they have “punished” labor enough. If so, that is an excellent sign.
Puff, the Magic Dragon.@2939
Yes, and the filter has been the subject of lies and misinformation by the minister all the way though.
The filter:
1. Brings in a new level of censorship that flies in the face of the Law Reform Commission recommendation adopted by the states after 1996 that mere possession of RC material not be an offence.
2. Will ban RC material which it is legal to possess in all states other than WA.
3. Will have a secret list of banned sites.
4. Does not hinder the operation of paedophile rings or individuals.
5. Tells parents/carers that their kids are safe on the internet.
6. Will not block, nor even attempt to block, material unsuitable for children
7. Will not block any X18+ pornography, nor any R18+ content
8. Will not block any material available via non-Web protocols, e.g. chat rooms, email, peer to peer (P2P) networks, Instant Messaging, Usenet newsgroups, IRC (Internet Relay Chat), FTP (File Transfer Protocol), etc.
9. Will not block access to services that can be used to circumvent/bypass ISP server level blocking such as Google Translate, Google Cache, etc.
10. Will not block, nor attempt to block, “illegal material” in the context of copyright infringement.
11. Glosses over the criminal sanctions that would accompany the filter for circumventing and/or facilitating access for others around the filter.
Marrickville Mauler, thanks for that. I don’t know that one from Zevon. I only know a couple of tracks like Back in the high life. Will have to try and get into Zevon at some point.
I imagine he has, but the fact is that in Australia we cannot impose such a ban, as they can in France. Nile should know this, he is just trying to get the spotlight pointed his way. (Though there could possibly be an avenue where he could get an act to impose it in areas where full-face helmets etc are banned.)
In Europe there is IMO, a reaction to Islam rooted partly in history; a fear of the replay of the invasion by the Moors in whatever century that was. (No matter the benefits brought to Europe by the Moors.) It is complex and not necessarily just based on racism because Islam is a religion, not a race. It is often presented as race-based but it is religious tension. France has reacted by banning all religious symbols in schools. We do not have such a historical record driving Australia, but as our population is mainly of European descent, it can still shape attitudes.
Speaking of Qld and education levels.
The best for the ALP make ground against the boats rubbish and climate denialisim is to actually massively invest in University for the 3rd Age.
gg,
I wish I’d said that.
centaur
But you need to check the porn sites about 200,000 times just to make sure that it’s a problem.
Andrew
Did you consider that maybe Oakshott played it this way as a way to diffuse the hostility from the Libs. Imagine if he was abrupt and unapologetic about his decision, the Libs would have behaved even more feral than they did.
thanks for the update b_g – isn’t there some tendency for people to misreport how they voted at the previous election though … particularly a bias towards the eventual winner?
Well this says everything you need to know about f2f morgan polls:
“Analysis of ‘past vote’ — how respondents claimed they voted at the recent Federal election shows, ALP (42.5%, 4.5% higher than actual ALP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election) cf. L-NP (39%, 4.5% lower than the L-NP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election).
“The difference between the reported ‘past vote’ and the actual election result can be due to either — a Labor biased sample, or by an unwillingness of the part of respondents to admit to voting L-NP. This latter problem has been noted in previous polls over many years. Regardless of the reason for the difference, if the Morgan Poll is weighted correctly for ‘past vote,’ the estimate would be 50:50, exactly the same as the special SMS Morgan Poll conducted on Wednesday/Thursday this week.
And morgan does it again…. the 1 poll before the election suddenly comes in alignment with all the other polls, while every other poll they have done for the last 3 years has been Labor biased.
Can someone please explain to me why they only get it right just before the election
You assume the AEC has correctly reported the vote – how many boxes went missing.
I’ll deal with it, I think censorship is wrong. Criminal law is the correct avenue in the cases of exploitation. People have a right to view whatever they want unless someone/something has been harmed or exploited in the making or acquisition.
Oz Headline tomorrow: “Voters Don’t Realise Gillard Govt is Illegitimate”
JAMES J – I think quite a few people are probably a bit embarrassed about mentioning that they voted for Tony. I would be after his recent performance.
Looks like the unhinged one has had his one day in the sun.
Why would people be too “shy” to admit they will vote for the Coalition but wouldn’t be too shy to admit they voted for the Coalition?
The censorship argument is a red herring as well as a straw man.
It’s already illegal to watch kiddie porn etc. They can catch people if they want to.
I wonder if the coalition are keen to go back to the Polls.
Diog, it wasnt me, it was my amigo GG. i was simply asking about your well being
If you want to see the Morgan Poll report in the OO tomorrow look in the Obituaries section.
BK#3015
Good one!
wasnt 7 who publised morgan lead up to election
ok whos going to send it to riley
and their abc will it still important
will it be
Breaking news. and bomb shell
They’ve started the 2PP count in O’Connor now so we should see the national 2PP go towards the Coalition.
Maybe the 4.5% difference in how people thought they had voted.. people who dont take how-to-votes and others may just have got it wrong on their ballot paper. And judging by those test results, they were probably mostly in WA and QLD.
Morgan isn’t the only polling organisation that does this.
Itep – we’ll take 2pts off for that and we’re still ahead.
now how many years have you had mrs bk in stitches lol.
F2F Morgan polls have been entirely discredited. Now Morgan himself admits it’s got serious problems and gives us the numbers to confirm it. Why do they keep bothering with it?
Diogs,
“The censorship argument is a red herring as well as a straw man”.
Is this an answer to that well known jibe that “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle”?
One of the independents seem to think so and they said it was one of their main reasons for not going Lib.
The media seemed to have got their panties in a knot about the independents not wanting to go Lib because they would probably win an election. My interpretation however was that the Indie was worried the coalition would WANT their government to fail to force another election as soon as possible.
my say
I asked earlier in the day if BK had been a comedian in another life. He has been on the ball of late!
From memory, the bias has been assessed to be in the range of 4 points. I prefer to just think of them as unreliable in general.
She sometimes doesn’t quite get my sense of humour but we’ve had 41 great years together.
Aristotle@2971
Depending on your Cartridge you can either tyry http://www.decibelhifi.com.au or if it is an obscure one http://www.needledoctor.com
3021: Morgan says it’s really 50:50.
Julia, quick – call the election.
Ari, buy a new TT, it comes with a new stylus
rosa, I think this is the direction the Oz is heading in
Oz Headline tomorrow: “Freddie Starr ate my hamster”
http://sunheadlines.blogspot.com/2008/11/classics-freddie-starr-ate-my-hamster.html
If we expect maturity from the media it would be good to show it here.
What do we know about this Morgan Poll
1) Its face to face and most experts seem to agree this is not the most accurate method.
2) Its answer on the one question that is related to fact (how you voted last time) is not in line with reality and when corrected back to reality the poll gives a 50-10 result on the 2PP now.
3) There is no reason why the poll would have moved so quickly in any case – the independent hadn’t decided and Tone was at his hinged best.
All in all lets call it rogue and keep our powder dry for a poll we can really celebrate. Otherwise we could be like the child who cried wolf.
al paster
if Julia calls another election. There will be leaks!! Actually, I wonder if the leaks occurred as a result of phone tapping. After all it seems to be endemic according to those in the UK.
Stop The Cracks – No: 2
Now, what do i use?
VERNULA – I’ve already had my poll “hit”. Now I’m stable again.
the abc have the morgan now lets see if its news
I wonder about Rudd hanging around in the background. It will be interesting to see if in the next few years assuming Gillard’s government starts flailing if he doesn’t make a challenge for leadership.
Afterall he can hold no blame for Labors near election loss, yet can claim credit for their decisive win in 2007.
rosa,
You’re kidding yourself if you think you are in control your poll addictions.
i never understand why thats so, its the only poll i have ever been polled on
some time ago and was completely honest
I’ll bet Oakeshotts first words will be:” Thank you. I have decided to accept Prime Minister Gillard’s offer of a Ministry. I hope that offer will be the Ministry for Regional Development – but that is the PM’s call”.
He will accept, and won’t stuff around. He will have been counselled.
Looking at pictures of the big fire near San Francisco it struck me as strange that in fire-prone areas the Americans persist in usuing that strange particle board method of construction.
3038: Why should they report it? It’s clearly not reliable. There’s a pretty good reason why Morgan hasn’t been taken seriously by the media for a decade now.
my say
I’ve never been polled so I don’t trust any of them
ah but its nice to see a few red faces
They’ve also started the 2PP count in Lyne.
The unhinged one will counter the Morgan Poll setback by sending Sophie Mirabella out on an extended charm offensive.
An Oakeshott presser? Damn, there goes the rest of my day.
Finns
Today I discovered that it isn’t a good idea to make jokes about Dr Patel with doctors of Indian background. I’m a bad boy.
I agree with James though, why does Morgan bother? Is it not more expensive to do F2F? Why bother if it is proven to be less accurate?
no not on the phone me neither.
i just accidently clicked on your avatar great poem
I notice Toolman on “Their ABC” thinks that Oakeshott won’t accept Julia’s offer.
When I said 4:17 earlier as to when he would say whether or not he would take the job at his 4:15 presser I meant one or the other of:
a) 4:17 pm
c) 4 minutes and 17 seconds in
d) 4 hours and 17 minutes in
– (b) has been left deliberatly blank so I can claim victory later
if was mrs oakeshott, and had a 4th baby on the way any day i dont think i would want him to either unless we could have a nanny ,
but i suppose the media want mention that
TTH
Of course he (Rudd) can. The party’s poll numbers hit the floor toward the end of his leadership. If Rudd had been kept on as leader I strongly suggest we’d have an Abbott govt – and you’d be even more unbearable.
Morgan does F2F on politics because its simply tacked on to F2F stuff for commercial clients – doesn’t cost anything, except a few minutes of the interviewers time.
It would be much better for Oakeshott, at this stage, to say that he had been taken to the top of the temple, shown the cities of the plain and decided that he wanted to keep his independence and tender to his electorate.
Of course, if he makes a good job of the ministry, I’ll be shown to be a crap-artist, again.
The Dr is in!
Apology in advance for what may be a stupid question(s).
If Morgan recognises a problem in their F2F polling re a labor bias why do they continue with F2F ? Why not just stick to phone polling which I understand gives a more balanced response?
I love Toolman on ABC24 “he is a man [Turnbull] who set up Ozemail, he is a tech-head…”
yeah, and I’m a “chef” cause I just put away the shopping
KAKURU – Oh, God. Rudd was 52 – 48 when he was deposed. Sensational numbers for a PM at that stage of the electoral cycle (mainly because Tone truly is a dud).
Indeed, all the crap we were getting that Green preferences being soft also seems to have been rubbish.
may be our hearts are lighter,
Again, I think Oakeshott will take the ministry but probably shouldn’t.
Sorry to all. Andrew asked the same question at #3051! I am not a gunslinger when it comes to typing speed.
And just imagine the lampooning he (O) would get from the Coalition in QT.
DOYLEY – My guess is that he has to do the polling anyway (for soap detergents, etc etc) so why not just throw in a political question or two.
I reckon Oakeshott’s first words will be: “Well it’s been a crazy few weeks hasn’t it … and I know you’re all here to hear which way I’ll go on Prime Minister Gillard’s offer of a Ministry, but before I get to that I think it’s only fair to the people of Australia and of my electorate to explain how I came to my decision … “
my say
even though the Liberals and the media are behaving disgracefully, my heart is definitely lighter at the moment.
may be he will say because of family matters and that is very reasonable i would think
and i would say very truthfull, and then i would think well good on him hes a good dad and hubby.
wonder how the msm will spin it
Shanners? Planet Janet? Matt Franklin? Sheridan? (Where’s Caroline Overington these days?)
Shanners no longer publishes my corrections of his “facts” (with online references, inc those showing he’s contradicted himself); but he still needs frequent correction. That Possum & ?PB had to teach him how to interpret an opinion poll correctly & the meaning of MoE (2007-8) – didn’t he hate it too! – is a measure of his, er, “standard” of er, analysis!
Janet – well, JH appointed her to the ABC Board in ?Feb 2005, nuff said. Franklin; the one whose moronic question at a Press Club luncheon broke up speaker & the gathering? If your colleagues think you’re ridiculous, what more evidence do you want? Sheridan? I remember when he was a good journo – conservative but incisive. Bob Hawke was PM.
Let’s be honest. Caroline Overington’s work on the AWB bribery scandal was the OO’s last bit of genuine investigative journalism: the handling of the Dr Haneef case was good, but journalists didn’t suss out the truth, Haneef’s legal team leaked the documents. Since Matt Price’s died & Tim Dunlop closed his blog, just about the only OO national news journo worth reading is George Megalogenis (+ articles from bloggers like Mumble etc, which are usually also posted elsewhere)
Today’s journos – as more than one analyst has said – are just plain lazy. They expect the news to come to them via RSS feeds, twitter, etc; not go to have to go out & do their own digging. Howard fed them a rich diet of government leaks; Rudd, especially after Mitchell’s claims over the G20 call with George Dubya, didn’t & Mitchell still resents that. OO Journos had a great time “leaking” about what was in the StimPacks, esp the 2nd (eg Tax cuts)- and got them wrong (by that time Treasury knew it had a mole!). Most of them swallowed Grech’s “leaks” whole – until the truth choked them. It was the ABC, not the OO, which broke news of the coup against Rudd.
BTW: Fairfax journos are more even handed, more incisive, and more often correct that the OO, probably because people trust them and their papers further.
So, because all the above is on public record – much of it on PB & Possum – I know your comment has to be a joke. But you forgot to add
If you don’t, people might think you’re being serious!
George are you really a chef? wow i never knew that
Vitato Fumare- i’m not suprised you don’t get polled witha name like that
Mysay, it was will be a severe blow/disaster for Gillard if he says no. She would have failed the first test of the new term
me to i am i feel so refreshed to day, but cannot concentrate on much yet,
must get back to the quilts so i have christmas presents, i am sitting here starting to hem one and then its to the machine quilting, so gives me an excuse to be here.
but soon there will be lots of weeding etc..
7 Noos took them very seriously during the campaign.
My bet on O’s first words well this won’t take tooooooooooo long, let me be brief
yes spin it is. doesnt matter what you say, it s the spin thats spot on
Morgan’s phone polls have always been closer to the other main polls than the F2F. For this reason they are considered more reliable. The 7 polls were phone polls.
Gary, Mark Riley and Gary Morgan. The perfect match
At least Morgan has the decency to conduct a poll …
Yes, where would be without fearless news-gathering that produces stories like these http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/09/10/handbag-gate/ and of course we must never forget Lobegate.
I think a Gillard government will be interesting but lets stick to the facts ( the labor right might not like them, tough), polytrend had the two party preferred at 52% to labor and rising, the bottom had past.
This was followed by Gillard, the upward trend disappeared almost immediately and then started falling. Where we are now had nothing to do with Rudd.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/08/09/newspoll-and-galaxy-monday/
BK
I can’t watch Contrarians today. Foxtel is otherwise occupied. Can you tell me if there is anything of substance being discussed?
Thanks in advance.
when I said almost all experts agree F2F are not as accurate I was not including Morgan (either because he is an expert who doesn;t agree or because he isn;t an expert – your choice)
My analysis of the completed TPP vote count in Denison.
We will get some more information about preference flows in the
coming days but my modelling of the TPPs and TCPs and
FPVs in the various booths suggest that the flows were
roughly as follows.
Out of the 21% of voters who voted Wilkie 1:
50% of them went on to put ALP above Libs in their prefs and
50% put Libs above ALP.
Out of the 19% who voted Greens 1:
95% of them went on to put ALP above Libs, 5% put Libs above ALP.
Similar analyis of the TCP votes suggests the following.
Virtually all the 23% of people who voted Lib 1 went on
to put Wilkie above ALP.
Of the 19% who voted Greens 1:
about 62% of them put ALP above Wilkie.
So we know that this is a strongly left-leaning seat:
ALP 66% vs Libs 34% ( in TPP).
However, the winner of the seat, Mr Wilkie, is supported
in first preference votes by people who are exactly
divided down the middle in preferring ALP or Libs.
If we look at Mr Wilkie’s win over the ALP in the TCP
race for the seat, in which he got 51% or 33,000 TCP votes,
vs ALP’s 49% or 32,000 votes we get the following.
Mr Wilkie’s 33,000 preference votes are made up of (approx):
14,700 Liberal 1 voters who preferred him over the ALP.
6,900 people who voted Wilkie 1 but then went on to prefer Lib over ALP.
6,900 people who voted Wilkie 1 but then went on to prefer ALP over Lib.
4,700 people who voted Green 1 but then went on to prefer Wilkie over ALP.
plus
a few hundred people who voted Socialist Alliance 1 but then preferred Wilkie over ALP.
victoria
Your wish is my command.
Dr. Patel & Mrs. Gandhi?
Diog, do tell
3057: May be so, but it’s just damaging their reputation now.
Where is Oakeshott? I thought it was 4:15 for the announcement
Morgan’s FTF polls have been reported in the past at times. Even compared to their following phone poll for extra effect, usually showing a swing to the Libs of course.
I think you have some words missing aftert “The Australia”
you meant
The Australian blog Pollbludger provides the greatest volume of high standard mainstream journalism in the country on a daily basis,]
Do I make that ALP 32, 527 ahead on 2PP now?
rosa
The numbers weren’t so sensational in the marginals, where Labor was being killed.
Lyne is now being TPP’d
This will be interesting because no-one knows how Oakeshott’s voters
split up in their preferences for ALP vs LNP.
victoria
Guests on Contrarians are Julian Leeser (Menzies Research Ctre), O’Marnie (ex ALP strategist), Time Wilson (usual IPA flack).
Starting subject is a bagging of Rudd’s inability to handle Foreign Affairs Ministry.
No. 22,527. It’s starting to come down as they’ve begun counting in Lyne and O’Connor.
Thanks Rosa #3067.
BK
Good grief!
Oops that should be 12 527 ahead, so much for this Fib line na–na-na-na-na–na
One more try Dr Bogan
Dr Good
Thanks for your analysis on Denison. It will be very interesting to see how Lyne pans out.
BK
They wuz robbed.
some one ask on the above has any one seen J bishop with one, come to think of it at the mine protest i did not notice one.
Here’s O
Victoria, PVO is pretty. the other three are ugly
Finns
Let’s just say I’m an insensitive bastard and leave it at that.
OAk declines
Oakeshott has declined http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
Says no to offer of Ministry
rua
I know!
I read about it in the OO.
Oh yes remind us again about the secret internal polling being peddled by the labor right as they tried to whip up support to dump him.
You got the meme wrong, it was supposed to be ” it was only 52% because of soft support from Green voters”.
Oakeshott has declined the offer.
Short and sweet
The Finnigans
Yes PVO is quite a sympathetic fellow!
Senorita, dont forget. “We ride, we fight and we love”. As Gus would say: where is the lurve?
KAKURU – The numbers weren’t great in the few marginals where the NSW ALP Right machine were getting polls taken. Funny we haven’t heard about any polls in marginal Vic, SA, etc etc.
ltep keeps his tipping record intact.
Oakshott has declined the offer
Said that Abbott also offered a porfolio
Extraordinary hey ruawake
I think Oakeshott has made the correct decision. You can’t be both independent and solid.
Diog, you only find that out today? you mean i have wasted all these years
Reason : not electorate pressure; did consider seriously, offers from both sides, so why: esp. family (+ friends & also political ramifications too), independence important,
Leeson says Libs have a greater mandate than Labor.
What unmittigated crap!
Twitter is suggesting I might like to follow Karl bitar
Smart fella.
Maybe if the “alliance” is going alright in a year or so the question can be revisited.
come on now and me i know what his wife may have said, to him
gee with a 4th baby any day come on who would not my oh either we would need 2 nannies
Wants to ensure regional package carried out by keeping independence, appreciated offers of both sides, refers to political orgs. that might threaten regional plan (doesn’t answer, refers to “faceless men”) refers to something that happened to day (I don’t know what that is – a vague reference to media I think perhaps the OO?)
In the current political climate Oakshott would have been torn to shreds if he accepted a ministry.
Who was the News journo having a go at him about something I couldn’t discern (bad connection on ABC24), and then said “you’ll see it published in the Australian” and Oakeshott said something along the line of “go for it”
ZIZEK – Have you watched any of the docos about Zizek – especially the one where he admits to being terrified when he has to play with his 4 year old son? Very interesting guy (as, of course, you would know)
Didnt he get a come-on from Iemma as well? he gets more come-ons than the whores on the 7th Avenue.
4.31 and the Australian story is still on about
‘Oakeshott warned against taking ministry ‘
Get your political news first n Poll Bludger.
Diogs,
“Let’s just say I’m an insensitive bastard and leave it at that”.
You’re a pussycat.
off of the end of a short plank?
Finn
… if it’s too hot in the kitchen …
Lots of Luv
i think he is very wise, to. In 12 months may be, by then he will have had more experience, being an idependent would may be not give you a lot of experience
portfolio work perhaps.
Tony Burke would be great in that ministery.
Wise move from Oakeshott.
It would have made stable government extremely difficult had he accepted the offer and it reduces the impact of this ridiculous smear campaign against him by News Limited.
Peter Brent said that Oakeshott would be more likely to lose his seat than Windsor, as his support at this election was not nearly as high and he hasn’t been in long. And that if he took a ministry he’d probably lose his seat. So I think he made the correct decision.
I think his 17 minute speech announcing the government. It had to be comprehensive so that the nasty little Nats here couldn’t say “you didn’t think of this/you didn’t think of that” etc.
Probably good Oakeshott didnt take the Minsitry. keeps the legislative/ executive lines clean, and that distinction actually matters in this situation….
spur 212
I’m sure fear of News Ltd had absolutely no part in his decision. I think he’s bigger than that. (It won’t stop them anyway.)
GWEEDS – I’ve developed a real respect for Peter Brent. He was the first out of the blocks to say the Julia move was not smart. How did he call the election?
What’s news pussy cat Diog. whoa whoa whoa whoa……………
GG
Can I use you as a character reference at the hearing?
Ali Moore on ABC24 “selected not elected”!
Thanks, Signore Calabrese for the sylus advice.
Finns, it may come to buying a new one, but I’d like to try to rescue my old one first. Very attached to it, lots of memories, some I actually do remember.
Oh I bet News Limited had no part in his decision.
Still, it does take the heat out of what they’ve been doing over the last couple of days.
Antony Green, on the other hand, in one of his rare predictions, thinks he is safe. (OMG – 2pp in Lyne -early postals 80% to Nats!)
ah Ari, but do you have the first print of “Sgt. Pepper”?
does she mean the gov,. or the pm
would she say the same re the other way around i wonder.
no wonder i dont watch any thing on that 24/7 u know i wonder if it will last
i dont know any one who actully turns it on the through the day, do any of u.
Diogs,
Any time.
They’ll find out my bite is worse than my bark.
From Poss:
This is a general thanks to William in particular and all the other regulars for this very lively blog. I have been reading this for the past three years, and especially over the last two months. Generally the quality of information and debate has been very high (although it tends to fall off a little late at night…). Together with related blogs, it has come to offer a frequently more interesting, more accurate and (mostly) less strident account of Australian politics than that presented in the MSM, as you call it. And clearly you treat politics as if it has real consequences for the country, rather than simply an amusing game. Keep up the good work.
One thing News Ltd. have demonstrated is they hate honest ethical politicians. They will go all out to discredit those who have demonstrated their integrity, yet, the likes of the Rabbott who has no ethics or integrity gets their undying support.
They are having Potshotts at Oakeshott at the Slynews.
Just for fun I thought I’d compare the headlines of Vexnews with The Australian:
Vexnews:
-THE TROUBLE WITH LABOR: A sad story of a VIP Room and a party that went horribly wrong
-LABOR WORRIED: Katter could lead his country cousins to Abbott because of Greens pact
-BANDT RANT: The Australian explores new Greens MP’s communist past (Interesting that they’d copy and paste a story from The Australian which ironically is a more honest way of reporting what the story intends to convey)
-CANCEROUS: Greens party policy would kill cancer patients including kids
-OWN GOAL: Queensland’s disastrous Labor Premier is Abbott’s delight
The Australian:
-Wage blowout threat to NBN
-Oakeshott ‘asked Labor for state cabinet seat’
-Libs’ broadband plan ‘not understood’
-DILEMMA: What to do about Kevin?
-BER hall so small it can’t hold 39 kids
-Jobs surge could trigger rate rise
I don’t know about everyone else, but I prefer vexnews. At least they’re honest about their angle.
Finn
Miao
Rosa 3141
I’m being very unfair to Peter Brent but this is one of his more unfortunate predictions!
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mumble/index.php/theaustralian/comments/no_hung_parliament/
Yes Rosa, he has been quite perceptive for some time about outcomes. I remember when he wrote that Latham was a unelectable nutter when he had really high approval ratings. This time he was wary about a hung parliament and predicted that the ALP would just stumble over the line. But he predicts that if it goes smoothly he would expects Labor to get the electoral ascendency. (and let’s hope he’s right again!). He also already stated that the ALP has won the 2pp vote.
victoria
Contrarians Report
Good thing you didn’t watch it. You would have blown your top.
my say, it was “put to” Stephen Jones (Lab) after Josh Frydenberg-god-i’m-gonna-enter-a-comma-if-i-keep-listening-to-him-drone-on remarked they [Coals] received more votes.
DEE – What’s the point of being Rupert Murdoch and having press power if there are ethnical politicians around who can’t be bullied. Must absolutely hate them.
Miao? Senorita, i am working on a song for you.
Lol
george asked something about powerful influences in Parliament – I can only assume he meant the “faceless men” of the ALP, did OO have a story on that today? is this journalism or self-promotion?
I think he’s still trying to live down the demise of President McCain as well.
TRAWLER – Much appreciated. Sorry to be difficult, but I’m trying to avoid giving the Oz any hits. Is it possible to cut and paste?
BK
Did PVO try to have a balanced discussion as moderator at least?
Ah, another CRACK?
Diogs,
You keeping track of other people’s wrong predictions as a hobby.
Now that is ironic!
Yes, victoria. He usually does.
First print? I doubt it. Unless the copy I have was sitting out the back of the shop for a few years before it was put out for sale.
I do, however, have several first print editions of Demis Roussos and Nana Mouskouri. In pristine condition. Worth at least 5 or 6 dollars.
Diog, is this another declaration of war?
BK
Thank goodness for that. I gather from your initial comments that they don’t want Rudd to get Foreign Affairs?
Finn a song? … Purrfect!
you’re dreamin’
Ari, not sure i have Nana Mouskouri. Nana Moussaka i have. She cooked it often.
You mught find me facing you across the trench
Tom Hawkins
New Zealand dollars.
Gus, where is the lurve for the senorita?
The really mad thing is that would not surprise me. So am I mad or they.?, after today I’m not sure of anything.
finns
funny you should say that
So did Newspoll. Aug 27-9. Then sat on it for most of the week while they killed the “go back to the polls” campaign.
(Pardon caps, I don’t have time to retype at my crippled snail pace) …HUNG PARLIAMENT. WHICH ONE OF THE FOLLOWING PARTIES WOULD YOU MOST PREFER THE INDEPENDENTS AND MINOR PARTIES TO HELP FORM A GOVERNMENT?
THE LIBERAL AND NATIONALS COALITION 39%
THE LABOR PARTY 47%
UNCOMMITTED 14%
Woops! Yeow! Waaah! so, what do we do now? I know. Hide it until we can bury the “go back to the polls” meme.
Pity Tony Windsor had already confirmed that the Coalition wanted a new poll too!
hell yes
Rosa #3161
I won’t quote the entire article but you can get the gist from the first few paras. It’s a shame that this is the one post of his that sticks in my mind. (HINT You can always good the link and check the Cached version, that shouldn’t generate any hits)
Gus, do tell
Oops, type in 3184… good the link = google the link
Nana Moussaka! Ah even more great memories.
Along with that exquisite Greek tipple – Retsina.
And what we didn’t (couldn’t) drink we used as paint stripper and oil stain remover.
Now you’re talking Aristotle.
TRAWLER – Thanks a lot. Can’t hung him for that prediction. On the facts available, a hung Parliament probably wasn’t likely. Did he call it Lib or Labor at the end????
GG
I tipped Labor Fed to win, the indies to go with Labor, SA Labor to win. Apart from my perennial loss on the Melbourne Cup, my tips are money in the bank.
OZ HEADLINE: OAKESHOTT VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN GILLARD
Oh dear Ari, i will stick my CRACK
Dio
wRonG
on obi you were Wright
He has realised he would never be home to see the kids!.
Don’t blame him, running a government is one thankless task!.
Gus, this could be the end of a beautiful friendship
Good on him
Oakshott refusing the Ministry is the end of the the post election negotiations.
Regardless of the campaign, Gillard has clearly out negotiated Abbott and the Libs and has skillfully achieved Government for Labor.
The selection of the Labor Ministry will need to have all the talent on display and on song. The best talent needs to be selected.
Finns
GG, stonemason? especially to fill in those CRACKS
Oakeshott is wise. And it makes it easier for Gillard, too.
I paid $50 to see Nana Mouskouri. Great concert.
Paid $100 to see Led Zeppelin & was deaf for two days.
ITEP – Nice compliment to his wife
Any ideas on who the Libs will put forward as Dept. Speaker, given that he/she will not sit in the Party Room?
Ru, mad uncle?
On the ministry, the papers seem to be saying
Rudd-FA
Smith-Defence
Wong-AG
Combet-CC
Bowen-Finance
Diog, Wong should do Immigration
Please. Not Bronnie or Prissy!
Where’s Wilson when he’s needed?
Don’t worry about the early TPP counting results in O’Connor and Lyne.
The AEC are not actually reporting any new counting as yet.
They have just entered the first-preference numbers for ALP and Nats
into the corresponding TPP columns. (Eg, a first preference ALP
vote is obviously going to preference the ALP above Nats).
Thus these few early results do not tell us anything about how
the preferences of Oakeshott voters (or Tuckey voters) split.
These early results in these two seats will also be skewed to the
LNP.
Diogs,
Gillard PM
Swan Treasurer
Tom Hawkins@3208
Unemployed – victim of Workchoices by the good voters of O’Connor
Finns
Actually Evans was one who was tipped to be in trouble so Immigration might be free. Crappy job though, although not as bad as CC.
Wong – AG. What about Dreyfus? I don’t think much of silk (most are grubs) but surely he must feel entitled?
Reminds me of the story of Garfield Barwick (when he was A-G) explaining a legal issue to Cabinet. Billy McMahon chimed in tried to assist. Barwick told him to be quiet.
Billy said that they were colleagues and he was trying to help a fellow lawyer.
Barwick replied: “Maybe, but there is a hierachy in the profession.”
Just saw Frydenberg on ABC 24 banging on about primaries.
Live in the now dude. Game over!
Said this last night, Amanda Rishworth to something she can prosper in, Nick Champion to get a minor portfolio, My tips. Obvious I’m from SA.
What’s the world coming to?
Is this the Rapture?
Just seen the end of Sky Contrarians.
Presenter Peter van Osterlen(?) actually put hard questions to Lib and IPA (Lib thought bubble) members of panel.
Lab member of panel temporarily looked like a stunned mullet (could not believe it).
If Gillard is smart politically, that what she should do. If Wong in Immigration, Bennelong is in the bag.
We paid 2quid to see Louis Armstrong and Johnny Ray, so there!
Rosa at 3189
He predicted Labor to just fall over the line.
Thoughts I’m about to raise may already have been addressed. I started at about 8.00 this am , am back now and boy there is some catching up to do. I’ve found some really helpful theories and explanations on what makes Murdoch tick and how NBN will affect his business. As I say this may already be covered in which case I’ll find out as I read on but my 2 main thoughts now are
1) is there a way of having 1 central site that I can get onto from which I can get easy access to the variety of like-minded sites. Eg I go to site A which then has links to Crikey,Daily Bludge etc. I don’t think all of these sites should be rolled into one because diversity is the key.
2)now that I am happy and talk to people with similar views, as a group how can we get those views out to the broader public in competition to MSM?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-broadband-plan-not-properly-explained-and-not-understood-says-andrew-robb/story-fn59niix-1225917399939
What the headline SHOULD have said:
On the strength of that I’ll go back to buying the weekend SMH. Gotta help out the good guys somehow.
The fist Oz shipment (ex UK) & I think master discs for Oz pressings, were caught in the Suez Canal blockade & blockages during the Yom Kippur War (5 June 1967) as were my FinL’s & many others’ Christmas stock: fourteen cargo ships known as “The Yellow Fleet” remained trapped in the canal for over eight years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal#Arab-Israeli_wars_of_1967_and_1973)
Most of the cargo caught in the blockage was scrapped / trashed – today, it’d be auctioned as memorabilia.
From memory, Sergeant Pepper wasn’t available until the following year (mine was prepaid so Palings gave me a refund when I was transferred north). We survived on radio DJ’s copies flown out from England, & copies friends either brought back with them or were sent for Xmas.
Apperently Abbott is going to make minimal changes to the shadowy cabinet. Howard still rules the Libs.
I saw AC/DC with just 7 or 8 other people many years ago.
I also saw the Zeps at Kooyong (row 6) and was reasonably impressed.
Didn’t pay to get in either.
grey
I’m from NSW.
Jason Clare should get a gig in the ministry. Looks like Bowen, Burke and Combet are already on track for promotions. But Garrett (my local member) should be out on his ear.
OzPol Tragic@3224
Not quite correct – it was the covers which were held up because EMI weren’t capable of printing the Gatefold covers and the various inserts properly.
The actual discs were mastered locally, as I assume the Master Tapes were flown in from the UK.
ruawake
What about Turnbull? Orange boy?
RNM1953
Have a look at http://www.politicalsword.com
It has lots of links to other sites.
The Garrett experiment never really ‘worked’ IMO
Curously, on ABC 24, the ALP guy (member for Thrisby) was saying Phoney was “custom made for oppositon, he’s great at it – but a bit of a no-show for government itself, see the costings debacle etc”
The funny thing about was that Frydenberg appeared to be nodding in agreement!!
New thread.