Roy Morgan has published a poll encompassing its face-to-face surveys from the past two weekends, hence not accounting for reaction to Labor’s formation of a minority government. It shows Labor opening a 54.5-45.5 lead on two-party preferred, compared with 52.5-47.5 in the last published poll of this kind conducted on the weekend before the election. On the primary vote, Labor is up half a point to 40.5 per cent, the Coalition down 3.5 per cent to 39.5 per cent and the Greens up 1.5 per cent to 15 per cent. The poll has a sample of 1632 and a margin of error of 2.5 per cent – beyond that, the recent election result provides yet more evidence that Morgan’s face-to-face polling has a substantial house bias to Labor.
UPDATE: Further from Gary Morgan:
Analysis of ‘past vote’ — how respondents claimed they voted at the recent Federal election shows, ALP (42.5%, 4.5% higher than actual ALP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election) cf. L-NP (39%, 4.5% lower than the L-NP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election). “The difference between the reported ‘past vote’ and the actual election result can be due to either — a Labor biased sample, or by an unwillingness of the part of respondents to admit to voting L-NP. This latter problem has been noted in previous polls over many years. Regardless of the reason for the difference, if the Morgan Poll is weighted correctly for ‘past vote,’ the estimate would be 50:50, exactly the same as the special SMS Morgan Poll conducted on Wednesday/Thursday this week.”
2,197 Comments
3 more years of Morgan’s rubbish F2F polls
With 54.5-45.5 to Labor, Jules should put up a no confidence in herself when the Parl. meets and go back to the poll and romp back in.
Is is possible part of the bias is that people will not admit, face to face, that they will vote for Tone? He’s a dirty little secret they have?
From the previouas Thread :
Frank Calabrese@3229
Speaking of Master Tapes – The Twilights Young girl was originally mastered locally from an Acetate Disc – hence the poor quality sound – The song was only reissued using an original Master Tape in the last two years on the following Compilation:
http://brentjamesmusic.net/Shakin_All_Over.html
As we were discussing rock concerts, among other things musical, I was lucky enough to work at the Sydney Entertainment Centre for all five of Cold Chisel’s last stand concerts.
Saw the concerts and got paid to do so.
Going back to the previous post – Chris Bowen would not make a good Finance Minister. The Finance Minister needs to be a senior party member who is not afraid to say No when fiscal policy needs to be maintained. The most successful – Lindsay Tanner, Nick Minchin, Peter Walsh – fitted this bill. Chris Bowen is too junior, brought us two of the great Rudd government successes – Fuel and Grocery Watch – and is too NSW right to be able to say No. Stephen Smith or Greg Combet would be more successful in the job.
From previous thread
deewhytony
Actually PvO has been quite even anded for the past several months.
He also had a shot at Leeson when he started sprouting 2PP, etc.
My dad took me along to Glen Campbell, when Glen was BIG. Is that impressive?
This is known in Britain as the “Shy Tory” phenomenon.
Some people do not want to admit that their selfish voting motives are not in the country’s best long term interests.
Hmm – hope they all weren’t from the same email addy/IP Addy – Could be in breach of the Spam Act
Rosa
I think part of the problem is that people do not like answering the door to people they do not know so the sampling is hard to get. I have been face to faced by Morgan once – I was actually up a ladder cleaning the gutters at the front of my house so I had no escape – but the lady told me that she had spent 2 days previously wandering around in Toorak without a single interview.
Aristotle
Listening to Barnsey is akin to having heavy duty sandpaper pulled through your ears.
gough1
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 3:36 pm | Permalink
“The spelling and grammatical errors in my last post are for iRONic effect (or not).”
ok
without googling – Which country did Nana Mouskouri sing for in the Eurovision song contest?
I wondered how long before the froot loops would start a Tea Party in Australia. Geezus.
Not back then, Dee.
He actually did sing and not screech as he did in his later career.
Plus there was Moss who also sang quite a bit with Chisel.
From the previouis thread
Dr Bogan asked
The Australian ran this article today
The article claims its info came from a senior Labor source who was privy to the discussions. I’ve been wondering who or where it came from. Oakeshott obviously thinks someone in the NSW right (or another faceless man) leaked the info.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/neutral-oakeshott-asked-labor-for-state-cabinet-seat/story-fn59niix-1225916807612
Peter Lalor? – does he have 1 arm?
Was on the Telstra site for something else and came across this
http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media-centre/announcements/telstra-receives-award-for-delivering-highspeed-broadband-to-arnhem-land.xml
Very interesting in the light of subsequent events and the upcoming slugfest.
Note “fibre” the solution in “remote communities”.
And to contrast, more recently Telstra announced this
http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media-centre/announcements/world-first-mobile-broadband-boost-puts-australia-on-top-of-the-world.xml
Make of that what you will.
Interestingly the Oz didn’t mention that Brogden publicly offered him a place in the Liberal Party ( and an assumed cabinet post) before the 2003 election. (I understand the Nats went apes*** when they heard it)
centaur009@14
From Memory was it France ??
Funny how the “senior labor source” leaks to the Australian and not to the Herald.
Take all these “leaked” stories with all the salt in the Dead Sea.
They have all the authenticity of a German jazz band.
No frank but thanks for playing
Frank Calabrese@21
Can I be correct on a Technicality as she sang in French
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_1963
Good grief. Do these people have the slightest idea why it’s called the Tea Party?
Cyprus
Aristotle, yes it was all very mischievous and a bit too neatly timed for me. I thought I heard some hack at the press conference saying they were running a story tomorrow that runs with this and actually uses named sources. Can anyone confirm.
From the previouas Thread :
Frank Calabrese
Thanks Frank. As I said, I was transferred North, so their release didn’t even make the apology for a local rag. I bought mine early 68 – but that could have been well after it was released in bris. But I don’t remember the cover problem at the time; not until it became part of the legend. It and A Hard Day’s Night were my only Oz pressings; “were” because I passed them (with my Black Sabbath & ELP) on to our “adopted grandsons” – they were played to death anyway & are only good for bragging rights – & I’m told, they’re Soo-preeem as that!
I may have failed Eurovision bingo.
Yea, they could at least be called the NewEurekaStockade
Though we don’t have any real significant anti authority historical events..
Puna: I once had a taxi driver tell me ( it was a very long trip) that the rum rebellion was caused by the government taxing rum and the people protested by throwing a shipment of imported rum into the sea. Unfortunately, a generation ago most people learnt their Australian history from Walt Disney.
Who is paying Morgan to do it’s F2F polls… and why?
Oakeshott @ 20
If I recall correctly, there was also discussion about the time of Rob Oakshotts resignation from the Nats that he would go over to the Libs. This continued even up until the Lyne byelection after Mark Vaile retired.
So that 27-29 Aug Newspoll was a good indication that (for once) people might actually have woken up next morning & thought “OMG. What have I done? I only meant to teach them [Labor] a lesson.”
This gets better & better!
I thought we had had our Tea Party – wasn’t it called One Nation?
wouldn’t be the smoking kind of tea ? hehe
Re: the morgan poll….
While the bias toward the ALP might be a couple of % — the great big new black hole was very damaging to the libs and it shows.
To me 52/48 sounds about right. I also think a few electors who wanted to protest, might understand now what they’ve done. (Sounds a little like the Libs right-to-rule rationale, I know, but when you have an overall ‘good’ govt. there is no deep or abiding reason to want to get rid of the incumbent).
If the next few polls come up with similar figs, the Indies will have been well and truly justified in their choice. It will also make the opposition crazy but cautious about trying for a new election.
The Oz story tomorrow:
Barren heathen snubbed by anti-christ
Julia Gillard’s illegitimate government was dealt a terminal blow yesterday when Labor sympathising son of Beelzebub Rob Oakeshott snubbed her offer of a ministry.
Fearing accepting the offer would limit his ability to finally find some balls and stand up against Gillard’s “loathsome” Great Big New Tax on Impoverished Mining Magnates, Oakeshott rejected the unelected Labor leader’s blatant bribe.
When we contacted the exulted Prime Minister in waiting Sir Tony Abbott he agreed with our suggestion that he should take the angle that this was a sign Mr Oakeshott was cracking under the pressure of deserting his constituents and shunning the path of righteousness to back the barren, heathen immigrant who has supplanted our rightful leader. He also agreed to us using the word “loathsome” in quotation marks in a way that made it appear Mr Oakeshott had said it.
In an astonishing coincidence 70 rightfully elected and shockingly robbed of their moral right to govern Coalition MPs all agreed this was absolutely correct.
Wyatt Roy said “who is Beelzebub?”
In other news Mr Oakeshott denied suggestions made by a top placed source who is no way connected to the Liberal Party that he once had an affair with a goat called Trevor and took part in human sacrifice.
Related stories:
Wayne Swan is a Russian agent – an Andrew Bolt exclusive
Bob Brown is raving homo
Russian forest fires linked to pink batts
Did we mention Bob Brown is gay?
Armada of boats headed to Tasmania – the Boxing Day invasion the illegitimate government tried to hide
Sky News is really fantastic says independent News Limited study
Bob Brown fails to carry man-bag to official function
Poll finds voters fear ginger haired women more likely to be unstable
He’d have turned back the water – how action man Tony Abbott would have stopped the floods
All Greens are gay loony hippies on crack
madcyril 27
Can you give me the context of your comment please.
I and my OH sat through a Dire Straights concert and used to listen to a band called Bullamakanka at the local tavern every Sunday while drinking pink champas. I probably could have used it to acid wash my concrete drivingway.
Yes, It is alleged that “the devil” Heffernan tried to get him to run as the Liberal candidate at the by-election. As Noah Vaile had resigned they were entitled to have a candidate. The last time there was a three cornered contest in Lyne was 1993 and the Liberals effectively lost by 2 votes. Talk about the Nat tail wagging the Lib dog!
I wouldn’t be surprised a post election opinion poll bounce for the ALP, it will be like any other post election honeymoon. Wait a few months till the real business of politics begins before drawing any meaningful conclusions.
Hello Michael Costa (you great big douchebag).
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Mr Thug was it.
I wouldn’t be surprised TO SEE a post election opinion poll bounce
Rosa – I’m showing my age but we took our daughter to see Glen Campbell and she was disappointed that he didn’t ride in on his horse! That was the only attraction for her but I had a ball tapping my foot along to the songs.
grey
Nah! Pop singers of Cypriot origins are also infamous for their lifestyles. George Michael{Panayiotou}& Peter Andre.
I wonder if we’ll see an increase in frequency of polling now we have a minority govt?
Janet Albretchinchin was going on about kombuya rainbow coalition and fighting over cattle or something or other on twitter. She thinks she cool and hip, just like those contestants you see on xfactor, only the crowds is laughing at her not with her. poor dear.
It is interesting that the Libs cannot make that breakthrough on the North Coast of NSW – Paterson excepted. Even in Richmond, they were comprehensively outpolled by the Nats … though of course Labor won comfortably.
One word Gos. LOL.
dogma, do you mean about the journo asking a question at the press conference. If so, I thought I heard one of the journo’s asking Oakeshott whether he had the alleged conversation with Morriss Iemma about a cabinet position. When Oakeshott said no, the journo said something about two sources who were going on the record in an article tomorrow. It was a shocking line from the press conference so it was a little hard to hear. Was hoping someone else had some info.
Dee@45
Spoiler alert for those guessing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWk4SwnsHJg
Dogma – was that at Waitara? Our kids used to go to the pub there to listen to John Williamson. We were amazed that they liked him because they only played headbanging stuff at home. Of course that stuff is now so mild when we hear it.
For those who missed it. Gary Morgan:
“Analysis of ‘past vote’ — how respondents claimed they voted at the recent Federal election shows, ALP (42.5%, 4.5% higher than actual ALP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election) cf. L-NP (39%, 4.5% lower than the L-NP vote recorded at the 2010 Federal election).
“The difference between the reported ‘past vote’ and the actual election result can be due to either — a Labor biased sample, or by an unwillingness of the part of respondents to admit to voting L-NP. This latter problem has been noted in previous polls over many years. Regardless of the reason for the difference, if the Morgan Poll is weighted correctly for ‘past vote,’ the estimate would be 50:50, exactly the same as the special SMS Morgan Poll conducted on Wednesday/Thursday this week.
Blackburnpseph – I think the North coast seats are actually a fair bellweather of the nation. 2 ALP 1 Lib 1Nat 1 Independent.
What I think is interesting is that an independent got 10% in Cowper despite having no campaign and being unknown in the southern half of the electorate ( I could add that he came from Woolgoolga and was the type of chap who keeps his head gear on during the ode at the RSL – if you take my meaning). It had to be admitted that he got most of his vote from the ALP but I think this is a further sign that the Nats will shortly be history here – I think the Libs will be a better chance then.
Best band I ever saw live was “Nansing & The Jam Tarts” one of the girls married Ben Elton I think. Beaconsville tavern. Fremantle or just Beaconsville. Frank?. I think it was the pub Robert Drewe went on about.
carole King. America oh and the girls
Oh saw the eagles in Melbourne
the beach boys but oh was to paraletic to remember so he just informed me. as 16 years old dear o me.
Carole King was about two years ago she was amazing.
They say that reclycling is a virtue so here is a slightly edited version of a piece I posted earlier in the week. It still seems apt. Have a good weekend bludgers
SAID SHANAHAN
by Socrates
“We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
In accents most forlorn,
As the global financial crisis began,
September two years gone.
The opposition stood about,
Coat-collars to the ears,
And talked of homes, and jobs, all lost,
As it had done for years.
“It’s looking crook,” Joe Hockey spoke;
“Bedad, it’s cruke, me lad,
For never since the banks went broke
Has the economy been so bad.”
“It’s poor, all right,” said young Turnbull,
With which astute remark
He pressed the accelerator with his heel
And found his merc a park.
And so around the chorus ran
“It’s all Rudd’s fault, no doubt.”
“We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
“Before the year is out.”
“If jobs don’t come this month,” said Milne,
And cleared his throat to speak -
“We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
“If jobs don’t come this week.”
A heavy silence seemed to steal
Between the two at this remark;
And each man starred into his screen,
And typed something quite dark.
“We want a quarter of growth, we do,”
Andrew Robb said quite aghast;
Barnaby Joyce maintained “we wanted two
To put the danger past”.
“If we don’t get the Liberals in,
Or get the Labor Party out,
We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
“Before the year is out.”
In quick time the cash splash fell;
And soon in the next year
Money for batts, schools and roads as well
It eased the people’s fear.
And through that year projects began,
And stock moved from store shelves
And cash registers rang and the Rudd-Swan plan
Kept the people employed quite well.
Jobs were created all day long,
And people found new work,
Till everyone knew the recession was gone.
The Labor stimulus had worked!
So Abbott came and the lies he ran,
Huge debt was the first crock;
“We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
“If this spending doesn’t stop.”
But stop it did, under Kevin’s plan;
And fears of debt were farce.
Next a climate bill that was agreed before,
Yet the Senate would not pass.
And the election came with Rudd not there,
With Liberal-hopes immense,
The boats! The waste! And other scares;
Labor offered no defence.
And, oh, the frowns on every face,
Gillard, Abbott on the precipice.
When the votes were tallied for each sitting place
It was seventy-two a piece.
Yet in the country three Members wise
Discoursed the merits of both,
And each man spoke for eternity,
Before ending Abbott’s hopes.
“There’ll be new elections for sure, me man,
There will, without a doubt;
We’ll all be rooned,” said Shanahan,
“Before the year is out.”
With apology to John O’Brien, “Said Hanrahan” 1921
Some of you lot probably have fond memories of Vera Lynn from your youth as well right?
grey@55
You mean Beaconsfield – and Anna Gare is now the host of Junior Masterchef and is the partner of Luc Longley.
I think Mr Elton might be a near neighbour of Billbowe since they both reside in Fremantle
Sophie Gare was in the Boom Babies.
Best live gig for me, and I have seen a lot, Billy Thorpe and the Aztecs Armadale Hotel, Melbourne.
You said what I was thinking Jon
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when, but I know we’ll meet again one sunny day.
Tralalalalalalallalala.
The AEC TPP counting has now covered a few small country booths in
O’Connor.
It is very early days in this count but so far the ALP is not doing quite
as well as it should. I expect the ALP to get 31% of the TPP vote but
it could be down to 25% on these early trends. If that kept up then
it might mean a drop of about 6000 in the final National ALP winning
margin. (Too early to say what will happen though).
The problem so far for the ALP TPP in O’Connor is maybe that a number of the
Greens voters are preferencing Crook above the ALP. We will see. Maybe this
is only happening in the really rural booths.
I notice that the AEC is describing the TPP count in O’Connor as
ALP versus “Liberal/National Coalition” and yet they are counting
ALP versus Crook.
I wonder if someone should say something.
Grey
I remember seeing the Jam Tarts in Sydney in my youth – might have been the Mosman Hotel – and I think one of them did marry Ben Elton. I remember they sang a song about Dianella , and another about a Toyota Corolla.
What a bunch of Nutters:
Socrates , you snuck me in alot of times there , i must hav been on your mind but take offense at any compares to Dennis Shenigans
OakshottC Remember that the OO staff sit together around a table and create the news. Didn’t say anything about “gather” or “report” or “analyse” or “check the accuracy of”. Just “create”. And nobody, for that story, created the embarrassing John Brogden.
Driving home tonight heard on the radio that the coalition agreement has *not* been re-negotiated yet, and so as such isn’t in force. Probably explains why nobody can find a copy of it online. I’m assuming it will be made public once it has been re-negotiated, and entered into again by both parties…
Has Morgan actually published this mid-week 50-50 SMS poll?
They were a great band, they went to Adelaide I saw them at the Astor. The singer was Elvis Costello ish and the girls rocked.
Is that the same Peter Lalor who writes for the Oz?
Socrates @57, do you mind if I copy and paste that to WhirlPool (when there’s an appropriate moment) ?
Dr Good
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 6:08 pm | Permalink
“The AEC TPP counting has now covered a few small country booths in
O’Connor……
I wonder if someone should say something.”
How about to Abbott , Govt IS formed by who has suport of th most elected HoR MPs
OzPol
Many in NSW today lament that John Brogden self destructed as he probably would have won the 2007 state election and saved 6 million people from that rabble there now.
I thought they’d declared O’Connor already?
From memory, in 2007 election there was only one town in the whole of Tuckey country where the ALP vote was higher than the Libs. So I wouldn’t expect the Labor vote to be doing well there?
Murdoch watch and today that rotten newspaper has continued its crap by attacking the Gillard Government on its front page yet again.
Oh how terrible NBN workers will be actually paid to much money. How does economy function Murdoch perhaps if no one got paid they wouldn’t buy your rotten papers. Earlier in the week it was deregulating the labor market.
This time Oakshott also got ripped into. He has declined the offer ministry offer, he should of accepted it. Bugger the News Limited idoits.
hope you dont mind socrates, but have copied and printed for our granddaughers scrap book about these times, So just think she will mostly likely read this about the time she votes.
She is 2 now.
confessions
Thanks for that news on the potential coalition agreement between Liberals and Nationals.
I will be interested to see if one is agreed
I hope the MSM then desist with their (apparent) error of saying the “Coalition”
Some people here have a decision to make!! Does Labor have a song??
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/10/3008278.htm
Anyone else think it appropriate that someone named Crook gives their support to the Coalition?
Diogenes@80
There goes all the Wog Funerals who play this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcrfvP11Hbo
Apparently Abbott has told his minions to lay off the Indies. I expect the Australian will follow suit with glowing support for Windsor and Oakshott.
The OO is becoming the dead tree equivalent of FoxNews.
Laocoon: That news item was followed by the Nationals saying they want increased representation on Tone’s front bench. Not necessarily in Cabinet, but in the shadow ministry. Should give Tone a few headaches!
Brogden lost me when he once said on TV that government budgets must ALWAYS be in
surplus – he was a complete noong who would have had the state in worse shape.
I just caught the tail end of Oakeshott being interviewed on local TV wtte that he didn’t take the job because the Nats were being so disreputable that they would bring the regional package down in their attempts to destroy him. A pretty good attack on the Nat’s priorities.
How is that ungracious dill Tuckey ripping into the guy, i wonder if he actually congratulated him on his win.
Fair dinkum that Tuckey is a terrible individual.
Yep.
I saw Gordon Lightfoot, but my biggest claim to fame is that I saw the Beatles live.
Diog
Labor does have a song
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internationale
What better qualification? It works in Indi.
Oh Frank!
I love Andrea Bocelli’s Con Te Partiro, especially when in duet with Sarah Brightman.
Goosebumps!
A bit off topic.
My son (with wicked sense of humour) gave me the DVD “The Howard Years” for father’s day.
I watched it today. Plenty of information and actual film of the times.
Most interesting, the worst behaved demonstrators were not the Wharfies (who lost their jobs) or other ALP types.
Absolutely thuggish were the gun lobby demonstrators who were objecting to the gun law reforms after the Port Arthur massacre.
You live and learn in this game.
Apparently Laura Tingle and George Megalogenis are on LL. For once it may be worth watching.
I saw Sabrina live in the 50′s. Naughty.
What of the True Believers instrumental..
Great reasoning from Oakeshott. He basically said he wants to see a regional support program work, and if him remaining outside the ministry is the difference between it getting up vs failing, he’s best not taking up Gillard’s offer of a ministry. Contrast him with Barnaby’s hysterics this morning.
confessions
5/13 current Nationals are already on the frontbench!
Still, not as many headaches if there is no agreement at all
victoria, yep Mega G and Laura Tingle are in da house
I always thought It’s Time is the anthem of the ALP… I mean they even released a single
BK@94
and you wished you were the Caltex Attendant in this ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbq6tDE6gnw
Laocoon
Apart from Warren Truss and Barnaby, who are the other Nats on front shadow bench?
Compared to Oakeshott Barnaby’s not worth a spit!
Hang on George works for the Australian, i wonder if he will actually say something with supported facts and is true.
Did you like the deficit announcement by Costello immediately after the Coalition won government?
Thanks Frank. It brings back early adolescent memories.
Tea Party! In Australia? Surely every rednecked ocker will see through this sham! It’s unAustralian, mate! Whot der they reckon we are? THe 50 somethingth state?
Beer party? Maybe. Bundy and Coke Party? Could work. Tea party? Nah. The CWA already have monopoly rights on that one!
Frank
Probably a silly question, but was that a “fair dinkum” commercial??!!!
Laocoon
Luke (Pruneface) Hartsuyker is another.
I saw rage against the machine in abandoned car park in LA, now that was a gig to remember…..if only I could
victoria
Don’t go there.
There’ll still be an insidious whisper campaign against Windsor and Oakeshott in their electorates. But the Coalition will be careful not to leave their fingerprints all over it.
victoria
You mean their huge profile and competencies have escaped you
Well, I had to look it up
The Hon. John Cobb MP
Shadow Minister for Agriculture, Food Security, Fisheries and Forestry
Mr Luke Hartsuyker MP
Shadow Minister for Consumer Affairs, Financial Services, Superannuation and Corporate Law
Senator The Hon. Nigel Scullion
Deputy Leader of The Nationals
Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs
Senator for the Northern Territory
They also have a shadow parliamentary secretary (sort of, I imagine, a shadow Chancellor for the Duchy of Lancaster)
Mr Mark Coulton MP
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Regional Development and Emerging Trade Markets
My best concert was U2 ZooTV tour. My kids were the youngest people there (6 & 9)… they were terrified, they’d never seen so many people.
Second best was Floyd with the flying pig in the 80s
Saw Zeppelin in 73 when I was a kid — amazing
Off to Roxy music and U2 in the coming months (I’m a concert slut)
William: thanks for your response on the other (closed) thread re my TPP question.
I went back and looked at my numbers and you are right I had overestimated the “winner” in each case, but as you say that error balanced out (My final count had about 120k for Libs balanced by about 120k for ALP in their 4 seats ea- lets see!!)
I find this Morgan interesting for a number of reasons, first Morgan’s comments pretty much admit what many have suspected (that his F2F poll overestimates ALP TPP by about 4%!). Based on the reported voting at the last election this error appears to be a sampling bias (Morgan’s sample consistently captures more ALP voters) and when this is corrected the final result predicts the actual result (so why not ask this each time and correct?) and finally, what with a F2F poll, telephone poll and now SMS poll, what about a Facebook poll, twitter poll or better still why doesnt he just save time and money and tell us his basic “Vibe”???
Pretty easy to predict all polling over the next few months:
ALP will win. This appears to be a consistent effect from my experience as voters cant be stuffed after elections and just give whoever wins “a fair go”!
Laocoon
Well you learn something new every day. I had no idea. They must be doing a hell of a job.
Another right wing group to negotiate on the Senate paper, it was full of them, Shooters, Christian Dems, Citizens Electoral mob, Family First, Fred Nile loonies, Nats, One Nation, Climate Septics, now this, like a road full of mines…
And from Sydney, The Atlantics.
Nah, he told them to lay off because the OO already has it covered. They’re all free now to concentrate on how best to portray the election result as “illegitimate”.
deewhytony@3217 on Victorian federal redistribution and other tales – The Poll Bludger
I only saw the introduction where PVO put the boot into Rudd with a ten yard run up. It included -
- Rudd a failure on FA because he insulted the Chinese by speaking mandarin to them and pointing out their human right failings.
- He also insulted the Japanese for not visiting them earlier enough during his term as PM (PVO failed to mention Rudd’s comprehensive rebuttal’s of the Jap Reporter who raised this crap – asking how many PM or Ministerial visits had been made by the Japanese to Australia and giving the detail of such visits – way way less then Australian visits)
- How Rudd IF he became FM would also probably *insult* Narua.
At that stage I switched channels – I’d had enough of the magnificent so called *balanced* crap from PVO
This whisper campaign will probably have all the hallmarks of the one that kind of occurred in Lindsay last election but done more clandestine and done more subtlelty.
As i said the courage of these Independents was amazing and they need to be proped up occasionally with some positive comments.
Actually, I just noticed as well that Joyce isn’t even deputy leader of the Nationals – “only” leader in the Senate
I wonder if there is some convention that the leader and deputy must be in the HoR
If only we could have late ones.
Obviously not! Since the deputy is from the Senate – duh!
Need to stop cutting down on the wine intake; it is effecting my simple comprehension
victoria@107
Of course
Back in the days when Aussie Ads were made and produced locally, rather than crudely revoiced Yank ads.
A Great channel of various old Aussie Ads is this one -
http://www.youtube.com/user/Conniptions886
My predictions:
Ministers:
PM – Jules
DPM/Treasurer – Swanny
Immigration – Evans
Defence – Smith
Education, Early Childhood Edu and Childcare – Simon Crean
Emplyoment, Workplace Releations and Social Inclusion – Jason Clare
Foreign Affairs – Rudd
Trade – Craig Emerson
Health – Roxon
FaHCSIA – Macklin
Finance – Bowen
INfrastructure et al – Albo
Broadband et al – Conroy
Innovation et al – Kim Carr
CC and Energy Efficiency – Greg Combet
Water – Mark Butler
Environment et al – Garrett
AG – McClelland
SPMoS, Cabinet Sec: Ludwig
Agri, Fishies, Forest: Burke
Resources et al: Ferguson
Human Services, Financial Services, et al: Wong
Vet Affairs, Defence Materiel, Defence Personell and Science: Shorten
Housing: Plibersek
Home Affairs: O’Connor
Indigenous Health, rural regional et al: Snowdon
Competition policy, et al: Gary Gray
Ass Treasurer: Sherry
Ageing: Elliot
Youth, Sport: Ellis
Employment Participation: Arbib
Promoted to Parl Sec:
D’Ath
Rishworth
Feeney
Farrell
3 others?
Yep, you have Crook, Robb, And 2 abbotts and 2 bishops and a briggs … just a few scary names
Frank
Honestly that commercial was hilarious. It looked like it was a parody.
kakuru@111
The OO will do all the heavy lifting for then anyway – nuthin new there.
Unfortunately Oakie’s decision not to take a ministership (good decision) will be interpreted by the libs and their nut job cousins in the nats as they had successfully chased Oaki off the patch and embolden then to continue to put the boot into Windsor & Oaki with more glee even if a bit more concealed
BK:
I was thinking about Barnaby’s interview today, and how he targeted Windsor with (wtte) keeping him honest while he visits there. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he’s seriously considering running in Windsor’s seat. Did you get the same vibe from his interview?
James
You missed two big newbies.
Min for Population
Min for Regional Development.
Dr Good (#64) and others:
Surely there is only one way to count the TPP in O’Connor (and all the other seats with Nats and Libs contesting) and that is to systematically exclude the candidate with the lowest number of votes, re-allocate their votes according to the next preference and then when you get to the stage that either the Nat or Lib is excluded, then you count the ALP vs Lib/Nat TPP accordingly. I suspect that is why the AEC is calling it “Lib/Nat” but counting as an ALP vs. Crook (as Crook ends up winning)…
If you dont count Crook in the mix you need to exclude the CLP in the Northern Territory and the LNP in Qld (all of which are different parties officially). Then you can forget about the TPP as ALP would win clearly (albeit artificially and meaninglessly). Whether a member sits in caucus or not has nothing to do with whether the voters in their seats preferred a conservative or labour member.
Best concert I have ever seen was Leonard Cohen when he was in town a couple of years ago.
Mesmorising – it was more like a religious event.
Dylan was good too in 2007. Well good by his standards!
What about the woman in Tasmania who is already a Parl Sec? Forget her name, but she sat behind the PM in QT.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-night-the-devil-tried-to-sympathise-with-rudd-20100910-154oo.html?autostart=1
Madcyril
Thx for that and yes that was what I was asking you. So basically the journo was writing about a story that was already out today and is old news. hmmm.
BH
No the tavern was just outside ipswich in Qld. Wasn’t my taste in music a bit folksy but was filled to the gills on pink schampas, I’d sing my heart out. I think I lost some of my hearing there
When I say Dylan some years back I didn’t understand a single word he said or sang, it was the worst concert I have ever seen!
say=saw
Frank Calabrese
Remember when the service stations had show bags for their customers?
dogma, I get the feeling it was going to be part two of the story.
Or when BP gave away smurfs.
good by his standards as I say Jon.
Didnt say a word to the audience other than to introduce his band but with Dylan its always about the music so that was fine by me.
ruawake
that is one thing I do remember. The smurfs. They were the in thing at the time.
James Bodentown
I think Dreyfuss should get a run. Maybe toss Elliot – she is substandard.
confessions
NOTHING would surprise me with the rabid one.
Julie Collins is who I was thinking of.
And I can’t see Mike Kelly in James’ list.
The Bundy Rebellion?
Yes, confessions, Mike Kelly has done everything right this last 3 years. He is a very good person.
“I just caught the tail end of Oakeshott being interviewed on local TV wtte that he didn’t take the job because the Nats were being so disreputable that they would bring the regional package down in their attempts to destroy him.”
riteon , meassage to his voters , Nats priority is politcs , his priority is regional package
Their behaviour is not only sour grapes but a message to others who may consider standing as independents in traditional National Party seats.
On a booth matched basis, I’m getting a 3.63 per cent swing against Labor on the ordinary vote in O’Connor, which moderates to 2.93 per cent if you allow for absent votes which have actually swung quite heavily to Labor – I guess because you get a lot of them in the relatively Labor-friendly Goldfields, which wasn’t in the electorate in 2007. A 3 per cent swing is exactly what I was anticipating.
“CC and Energy Efficiency – Greg Combet”
my wish also , Julia’s future and co2 mitigation , in part rests on his very talented shoulders
Mike Kelly would make a great Defence Minister, but the portfolio kills most politicians. Does he want it?
confessions – I watched that and got the impression that he will. He didn’t answer Gilbert directly but the air was heavy around him.
Oakeshott County – you guys up there need to watch carefully and keep on top of what is happening. I’ll keep my ear to the ground on what is being said and done in my area because most of the people I associate with are actually on the other side of the Highway from me in Lyne.
Certainly likely to make more of an impression in redneck country than “The Tea Party”, Kinkajou.
Windsor, if he stood again, would make mincemeat of Barnaby.
I’m not sure I follow you here. “The stage that either the Nat or Lib is excluded” is AFTER the ALP has been excluded already. The issue in O’Connor is whether you do an “ALP vs LIB” count – which means nothing more than counting votes which have ALP higher than LIB for the former and vice-versa for the latter – or an “ALP vs NAT” count. The former would presumably be better for Labor, as you would expect more Nationals voters to put Labor ahead of the Liberals than Liberal voters to put Labor ahead of the Nationals.
the Star Hotel as the only notable Oz event of civil unrest!
Mark Dreyfuss QC, from Victoria, would be a far better candidate for Attorney-General. He presents well whenever he is arguing a case. My background is quasi-legal and he has good relationships with the legal bodies and is widely respected.
Robert McClelland is a potato head, and most of his parliamentary colleagues feel the same. He has a poor relationship with the legal associations. However, to his credit, he was responsible for introducing equality at law provisions for same sex partners. Nevertheless he should be dispatched to the backbench.
It would be disappointing to see such a talented lawyer as Dreyfuss languishing on the backbench when he has so much to offer.
Chris Evans is an uninspiring offering, but of course he is Leader in the Senate and must get a geurnsey. More is the pity.
Best laugh all day.
swamp stomp in kingston back in 1981 also
William – is that better than the vote when Tuckey was there?
ModLib
There are two ways of counting O’Connor’s TPP which are in line
with the standard way used in recent elections.
One way is to treat Crook as a member of a nationwide LNP “Coalition”
and count the votes ALP vs Crook. Then you count the votes
in the same way as in the 142 normal electorates.
The other way is to treat Crook as an independent or minor party
seat-winner and count the votes in O’Connor as ALP vs
the Coalition candidate (in this case Tuckey). In that case
then you count the votes in the same way as you do in
Kennedy, New England, Lyne and Denison (which is
a mirror image of the way that Grayndley, Melbourne
and Batman are counted). Then you just make two piles:
one of voters who preferred Coalition (ie Tuckey) over
ALP, and the other of votes which prefer ALP over Coalition.
There is only one way of counting Coalition vs ALP and
making the two piles is equivalent to your suggested
method via elimination. The only difference is whether
you treat Crook as a member of the Coalition or
as an Independent (liek Oakeshott, Wilkie etc) or minor party candidate
(same as Bandt).
feeney,
She’s got to find somewhere for Andrew Leigh. He may not have the political skills yet or he may, and he could use his economics professorship to a great deal of use.
Not sure I follow, BH – are you asking if Tuckey appeared to have an impact on the vote in the Goldfields? If so, it’s a good question that I can’t immediately answer.
Barnacle is an absolute disgrace.
These indies were put in a position of choosing a government for all Australia not just for their backyards.
I hope the ALP give them all the support they need & deliver all that has been promised.
Poor buggers!
The swing is from last election to this, so it’s roughly 3 per cent worse.
Julia can’t afford to have a single dud in her Ministry. Therefore those like Elliot must go and make way for the likes of Dreyfuss, Kelly, etc.
Bundy is only partially redneck country, Agnes water and 1770 is paradise you mexicans can only dream of
Then they can get disgruntled and quit the party or resign from parliament at an inopportune time mid-term, thereby subjecting Labor to a potentially disastrous by-election. Far more than the mere fact of minority government, it is this sort of thing that makes the current situation potentially unstable.
William Bowe
You make some valid points.
There’ll be someone from the ACT in the ministry as they’ll try and have one person per state/territory at least. There have been rumors Lundy might get a promotion, but it could be Leigh instead. Lundy was one of the first MPs to publicly back Gillard.
Personally, I wouldn’t notice McClelland, Elliot, Arbib or Macklin going. From the parliamentary secretaries there’s very few that Id see as definites for promotion.
Someone mentioned Farrell possibly be promoted to parl sec. I’d think it more likely he’d replace Kerry O’Brien as Government Whip.
Hmm, William. You may have a point there. The dynamics have certainly changed.
And, Willam, seeing you are (benevolently) lurking at the moment, is it easy for you to tell us the relaive state representation of PollBludgers in recent times.
Regards, and thanks for hosting such a great website.
I don’t agree that McLelland should be junked to the backbench. He’s a Cabinet minister, which makes it tricky to divest him of a senior portfolio. Perhaps there will be minimal changes to the ministry, with only current vacancies filled, and back-filled accordingly.
Yes – I wondered if he would have picked up that vote more so than Crook but will wait until you have all the figures and see what you get from them.
Orf to watch footy for awhile and hope it’s finished before Laura & George hit LL.
You’re about 45 minutes too early BH.
A by-election in Rudd’s seat would be tantalisingly delightful
me? Melba.
Saw the Beatles at the Finsbury Park Astoria in 64 – couldn’t hear anything though. It cost about 16/11 from memory
The dream of every right winger in Australia. It’s as credible as a Lotto win dream as substitute for a retirement plan.
In 1964 my salary was 6 pounds 17 and 6.
Cheap night out.
Steve, writing off the possibility of a by-election in Griffith betrays a certain lack of imagination, I feel. However, things would have to be pretty grim for Labor to lose it.
It would be a masterstroke of genius from Rudd. It would go down in political history as the greatest payback of all time. They’d be writing about it for decades.
I don’t doubt the punters of Griffith are loyal to Rudd, his was one of the few seats in QLD(possibly only one?) with a swing TO the member.
And remember us QLD’ers are a vengeful lot.
Rudd will be FA Minister, the deal has been done. Smith gets to chose whatever he likes, that deal has also been done.
The only way Rudd will leave parliament is if he gets a gig as Sec Gen of the UN. Unlikely in the medium term.
i seem to remeber year ago they ministers for the Army etc now it all defence,
would really like to see Kelly with this ministry
Wrong as usual.
William, Labor did excel themselves in losing neighbouring Bonner where I live and lost Brisbane on the other side of that so I don’t hold out any hope of Labor winning anything at all for the forseeable future in Queensland. They are toxic.
They couldn’t even win Leichardt with a second hand Tory candidate against them.
There was not a swing to Labor in Griffith.
[In 1964 my salary was 6 pounds 17 and 6.
Cheap night out=
mine was to that was a fortnight i think and my monther took 30 shillings for board, and when decimal currencey came in i thought wow
i just needed a bigger handbag.
Which other Labor seats had a swing to the member in QLD?
Swanny got smashed 10% and he’s meant to be in a safe Labor seat.
Their ABC Repeating OO Meme re NBN:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/10/3008821.htm?section=justin
Gos
Posted Friday, September 10, 2010 at 5:52 pm | Permalink POST 38
“sham the ham” will make you an offer at the oz if you keep this up….A
Confessions 129
Yes, I agree about Barnaby running in Tony Windsor’s electorate. There is no love lost between them – didn’t Windsor call him an “idiot” and “clown” on election night? – and I recall some time back Windsor lashing Joyce about speculation he would run against him at the recent election.
Windsor pointed out that Joyce was loathed and despised throughout the electorate, wtte, and would be trashed if he ran in his electorate. Joyce remained a Senator. Interesting times ahead!!
Less than 5%. Rudd had a swing against him of less than 4%. Yvette D’ath in Petrie had one of less than 2%.
Ah yes, just looked. I must have been looking at earlier numbers. The swing is quite small compared to others such as swanny however.
They’ve added more absent votes in O’Connor, and that swing to Labor has moderated significantly, and there’s also been a big swing at the newly added Narrogin booth. I say this purely by way of correction – the number of votes is still to small to be significant.
The smallest anti Labor swing in Queensland was in Fisher, of less than 1% to Peter Slipper.
Wayne Swan ALP 35,724 41.1 -10.2
Suffice to say he made some of that back on TPP.
Pretty shocking though
Haven’t looked too closely, but my guess is the size of the swing in Lilley was to do with the Clayfield/Ascot area – this was an election where the doctors’ wives came home. TTH and many, many others like him would do well not to impute this sort of thing to candidate factors.
Sorry, I got confused there – Clayfield/Ascot is in Brisbane now.
Thanks William/Dr Good:
You R right, I didnt make that clear….in the other seats with Libs and Nats competing, you just keep excluding till ‘last man standing’ and this is usually one of them vs. ALP (therefore easy). I would think the same principle applies in O’Connor, but in this case to generate the ALP vs. Coalition TPP you dont exclude ALP (as you do in the ‘Two Candidate Preferred (TCP)’ count). In other words, whichever candidate wins (Crook) is the one you do the ALP vs. Coalition TPP count with.
In my view, using ALP vs. Lib is artificial given neither of them won the seat! Crook was a National on the Ballott paper just like any other National candidate anywhere in the country. Whether he decides to sit on the crossbenches isnt an issue, just as independents joining ALP minority government (and metaphorically sitting with them) do not count in the ALP TPP count.
To the Nats, or to Labor?
So when does Timmy Nichols tap Poodle Langbroecke on the shoulder and reignite the LNP wars, Truthy, that’s the only interest in Queensland politics these days.
He didn’t “self-destruct”; he was destroyed by NSW Liberal “dirt squad”. Not the first be a long shot and not the last; not just recently but for many decades; not only in NSW, but in Qld, Vic etc; not only at state level but federal as well; as David Marr’s Lethal whispers demonstrates:
Liberals carrying on about Labor’s factions; yet their own are so more visious. Time Libs took Matthew Ch 7, iii, v to heart
Did you know it was Gordon’s wife who prepared the drug cocktail that killed John Belushi?
Best show I ever saw was Alice Cooper when he had his original band. Late seventies at the old Sydney Showground- regretfully now part of Fox Studies and probably owned by you-know-who. Is nothing sacred.
Best show I never saw was Roy Orbison.
I wrote a comment earlier but it seemed to disappear into a black hole. I can’t recall everything in it, but i did want to make this point again:
Gos, this was terrific.
Clever, very clever indeed.
Joyce was urged many times by his own party to run in a HoR seat as was pointed out to him to win govt the coalition needed to win HoR seats.
For whatever reason, fear? not understanding the concept explained to him? he didn’t and chose the safety of 2nd position on senate ticket instead.
If Joyce had believed in his popularity and had run in a HoR seat then according to his belief in himself he would have won that seat, taken an extra seat off labor giving the coalition 74 (with Crook) labor 71 + Brandt and four independents. Libs would have formed government.
You could say that Joyce cost the coalition government because of his lack of belief in himself to win a HoR seat from labor or his fear of rejection if he failed to do so.
This may explain why Joyce is going so feral on the independents, blaming them for the coalition for not being in government when the blame lies with Joyce. It is like a little kid who drops his ice cream and turns around and blames his big brother.
My brother said he put on the best concert ever. When I saw him the sound was terrible. He cracked the shites & walked out.
Best I saw was Fleetwood Mac & Santana.
Castle, the LNP agreement meant if Joyce moved to the House, Russel Trood (a Liberal senator) would’ve got a winnable spot on the Senate ticket instead of a Nationals member. This was why Joyce didn’t make his move to the House at this election.
The LNP propaganda this side of the Tweed says that the Tories are all one big happy family with no more risk of three cornered contests etc, etc. The reason Joyce didn’t run in the HoR is his his lack of support in Northern NSW.
You could say that about lots of them. The incompetence of the Lib state branch in NSW, with very late candidate selections, poor postals campaign in critical seats, and the re-direction of valuable campaign funds away from seats they had a reasonable shot at winning. NSW state level politics isn’t just a drag on Labor, but Liberal as well.
Trood would be more entitled to a senate seat than Joyce on any indicator chosen. The man was an intelligent academic and for the LNP to choose Joyce over Trood is ludicrous.
So Joyce kept the libs from getting a Nat senate seat and cost the coalition the election. What a lovely coalition.
Has any media organisation asked Joyce if he regrets not running in a HoR seat as his colleagues urged him to and whether he feels his decision not to cost the coalition an extra seat and government>
But none of them have as many tickets on themselves as Joyce, he let fear hold him back.
Case in point. The seat of Groom. A safe Liberal seat. They spent an enormous sum of money on the campaign in Groom.
My say, with appointments like that, “capture” of the minister by the sector s/he represents is frequently seen as a problem – ie ministers become advocates for what was “their” profession, rather that the profession’s achieving ministerial aims. It’s also described as the profession’s “colonising” the ministry.
The usual way to minimise “capture” and or “colonisation” is to appoint someone from an allied field who can be effective as minister – although appointing Winston Churchill, a soldier & journalist, as First Lord of the Admiralty before WW I led to the disastrous Gallipoli campaign!
Barnyard is a sad joke
a banjo with only string
And Senator Trood was an acknowledged expert in Foreign Affairs; Barnyard is an expert in…?
Interesting comments by Assoc Prof Sarah Maddison on Labor minority government.
daveyk317 #auspol #ausvotes Assoc. Prof Sarah Maddison talks about the new OZ order. This is a perfect analysis!!!
http://bit.ly/cV3MDl
#SBSNews
Arithmetic?
Frank
In fairness to the OO and ABC, they are quoting a union guy. What do you expect them to do? Not report it?
Antony Green has come up with a spiel on what happens if the minority government stikes a rough patch.
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/09/what-will-happen-if-there-is-an-early-election.html
Given impending announcement….my 2c worth re Cabinet:
Rudd gets FA and Trade (Smith shifts within cabinet)
Albanese moves to Defence (Faulkner going to backbench)
Bowen moves to Finance (Tanner retirement)
Smith moves to Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Dev, Local Govt
Mike Kelly gets Human services/Defence personnel and veterans affairs (joins Cabinet)
Combet gets Environment protection, Heritage and Arts (replaces Garrett in Cabinet)
Garrett demoted from Cabinet. Jason Clare takes over Combet’s Non-Cabinet portfolios.
Bill Shorten might miss out given the wounds with Rudd removal, Arbib should be moved out of Ministry, but I suspect Gillard would be too scared!
Diogenes@221
But it’s still a Meme to attack Labor with.
parliamentary jester?
Why is a criticism always referred to as a “meme”? Surely they are making a valid point.
Even Morgan himself suspects that Morgan face to face polls are biassed. They’re sheer drivel.
Wonder what shadow portfolio Mirabella might get. Health or family perhaps?
Can someone tell me what’s ‘special’ about Jason Clare? I get the gist that he’s one of the potential ‘rising stars’.
I’m mainly asking because I’ll might be having some sort of dealings with him in the near future, (I’m organising something for the uni, he’s might be involved in it) so it’s a bit of personal research.
Not my familly. I love them.
One L too much.
Health, yeah. She is a really great advocate for preventative health given that she gets fatter every time she appears. Too many lunches with Laurie Oakes and Samantha Maiden dare I say.
Minister for Exorcism and Satanic Affairs.
The LNP deal was that all sitting members kept their seats. For senators this meant they kept the same spot they had on the 2004 Senate ticket. It wasn’t a conscious decision to choose Joyce over Trood.
In any case, the LNP isn’t the only party with questionable preselections. George Williams constantly gets knocked back over Labor Party hacks.
FS
So you mean party whip?
Haven’t seen anything personally. We were assured Arbib was a rising star before 2007…
Just watching PvO who’s making exactly my point about the useless NSW state Lib branch and their hopeless campaign admin, ultimately costing them seats. They’d be in govt now if it weren’t for the state branch failures.
Beelzebub comes in many shapes, Gus.
That doesn’t bode well then. Most likely this Jason Clare has sucked up to the right factional godfather and little else…
Mirabella will be lucky to keep Industry. Although perhaps I should’ve realized when Abbott signaled he’d be revitalising his front bench he meant he was dumping any moderate voices and replacing them with the loony right.
Perhaps you are selling the good voters of NSW short there?
Actually, I tend to agree as far as the 2007 NSW state election was concerned.
To be fair leftwingpinko it’s hard to tell with parliamentary secretaries. People rave on about Mark Butler and Gary Grey too.
I believe Jason Clare is from Labor Right faction. The times I’ve seen him in the media he’s been pretty impressive. I wouldn’t compare him with Arbib, who appears insincere and has a tendency to mangle his talking points when he fronts the camera – Clare seems more natural and uncomplicated. I don’t know what he’s like as Parl Sec however.
Agree Confessions, Jason Clare is a competent and well spoken find, just a bit green yet but now probably a good time to try him out. Shorten would normally be above him in the pecking order, but there are extenuating circumstances given recent PM removing history…
Gary Gray? I worry about this raving. Keating couldn’t stand him and said that it was people like him who made Beazley unelectable and sold off the ALPs economic legacy.
Reptilian Affairs, seeing she is the Indi puff adder.
I’m not impressed with Gary Gray. I saw a feature of him during the campaign on one of the channels. He didn’t look like he cared about representing the seat, appeared bored when asked about the issues confronting his voters, and made a weak-kneed justification for why he should be re-elected. The overwhelming message I got was BORED NOW!!! I wondered why he had even re-nominated.
Shadow minister for Gropers!
Mod Lib: I’m happy for Shorten to move into the ministry, given he’s proven himself competent in his current role. I think this govt is going to have to rely on competence in its front bench, so I’d be happy for the Rudd Removal issues to be overlooked when it comes to promoting proven performers like Shorten. Arbib is another matter. But I doubt Gillard would have the capacity to junk him.
Having seen Mirabella in action, I’m not sure I condemn Belinda Neal so much after all …
gaffhook @ 247,
are you referring to the fish or the activity?
link for 247
http://www.vexnews.com/news/4971/belle-of-the-ball-rose-sophie-mirabella-surrounded-by-thorns
Bah!
1st goal after half time. Still getting schooled tho.
All thorns … there are people in this world that creep you out because they ‘broadcast’ a truly negative potential. Sophie is one. Abbott is another. Morrison gives me the same feeling. It is an aura that can only be explained as tainted.
While I dislike people like Pyne … I don’t get that same ‘negative’ vibe. But the idea of the above three actually getting into power really does scare me.
Is the OO more paranoid and unhinged about the Greens than Vexnews. It’s quite hard to tell.
Dio
the OO have stirred up the Ents
I think rupe has forgotten about the franklin dam
now its
Damn Rupert!
Mirabella affects me in the same way Fierrvanti-Wells does. The Liberals have shown a remarkable talent for pre-selecting incredibly odious women.
Fierrvanti-Wells was the proud recipient of my number 84 below the line senate vote. Billy got 83.
Feeney: Mark Dreyfus is spelt thus, not as per your two s version. So I do wonder about the quality of your information.
Having worked with both, I can say that while Dreyfus is a major talent and well deserving of promotion, Macca is not deserving of your derision, and that is not the way that well informed colleagues with senior legal connections think of him either.
confessions
They have made it an art form.
What would happen if Sarah Henderson got a successful recount in Corangamite and ended up winning her seat? Would we be likely to get a new government under these circumstances? Here’s hoping!
I don’t know if this has been discussed since the election (haven’t had time to read all the posts) but in the Advertiser on the Monday after the election an article from that journo of impeccable impartiality, Malcolm Farr of the Telegraph, proclaimed that Tony was the hero.
No doubt it appeared in the Telegraph probably praising Tony more there than the Advertiser article. I don’t know what other PB’rs think but from where I sit, far from being the hero that Farr proclaims he is, I think that the reason why the Libs didn’t win outright was because of Tony not being the hero with the punters that Farr thinks he is. I haven’t come accross a person that likes him
I am always perplexed by how the lefty bloggers here all seem to hate Christopher Pyne. I cant imagine who (perhaps Turnbull??) would be more likely to defect from Libs to ALP than Pyne. He is a moderate, he is for action on climate change, against asylum seeker policy and in most things a moderate voice.
It wouldnt be his actual voice would it? I hope people dont just hate him because he sounds rich. How is that different from hating someone because they are poor? Both are forms of prejudice IMO.
Wakey, wakey, hand off snakey.
Mod Lib he doesn’t sound sound rich, he sounds shrill and the sillier he gets the shriller he gets.
Amiable Polisher,Sophie Mirabella.
He comes across as a continually whining pucilanimous born-to-rule prat. That’s why.
What would happen …?
And you have the hide to call yourself Nostradamus.
prissy is a complete twat
he revels in bile spite and innuendo
also i think he is an insult to anyone proclaiming intelligence
So you’re a Pyne fan too, Gus?
He’d get that wrong too.
Pyne is snivelling, and whingeing, and combative. And he’s the worst kind of combative: tries to run under the radar and strike from below, but runs to the umpire at the first hint of similar return fire on him. Just look at him in QT.
I have no respect for him. He perfectly embodies the Born To Rule mentality within the Liberal party.
confessions@256
In all fairness they elect quite a few asshole males as well. To the point that it appear mandatory to be an asshole to gain preselection.
I better not mention the requirement for preselected for the country party, err nats.
You’re quite right, Mod Lib. Mind you, so is BK.
Nice try Nosy — he has remained 750 votes in front for quite a while — would take a massive mistake throughout the counting for her to make that up and overtake. If you think it is likely, we could ask for the same in Hasluck.
Nor have I NJB
Err, could it be the fact he has been in parliament for 17 years, but is yet to offer a single policy idea to make the country better?
He is the consummate political hack; his only other job was working as a solicitor for 2 months and he stands for absolutely nothing positive.
Haven’t you met Christopher Pyne, jen?
Let me see …his behaviour in the house? His voice? The fact that he lies and grins like an idiot at the same time? need I say more?
Pyne is a poster boy for the Narcissism Society.
Perhaps its that he never lets his principles get in the way of his propensity to parrot the party line religiously. His voice shits me too.
Pyne has been shadow education minister for how long now? An entire term? What has he come up with as an alternative to Labor’s agenda? All I can see is a handful of tax rebates for things like school fees.
Actually I respect the fact that in spite of insurmountable odds he still clings to his limited worldview
I wish i could still be that ignorant
Under a Coalition policy, young people would again be allowed to gain full-fee entry to university courses they would otherwise have been unable to undertake. Why should you ever be denied the opportunity to pursue a career you dreamed of since you were a kid if you can afford the full cost of your education?
Kevin Rudd will become the Foreign Minister and Stephen Smith will be taking Defence.
His alternate policy was to say the MySchool website is a waste of money, then he turned around and supported it.
Therefore, Pyne’s big policy contribution in the last parliament was to support (what he thought was) wasting money.
Shows on (276):
Pyne the typical political hack? Do you think the ALP members currently provide a good cross-sectional representation of society then? Take out the Lawyers, unionists and life-long party operatives and you wouldnt reach a quorum (in fact prob wouldn’t reach party status come to think of it).
Pyne is fighting a tide of right wingers unfortunately, and thats the problem, not him.
who has finance?
Because your are too DUMB, even if daddy is rich !!
GhostWhoVotes@284
Thats fair enough.
No — praise whatever powers you choose to worship
translation from nostril warbling to english:
under the coalition things like intelligence, hard work and merit will not determine entry to university. why should we discriminate against the stupid and lazy in the conferring of university degrees? after all if they were born wealthy they shouldn’t be denied the opportunity to build bridges or hold lives in their hands because they are a drongo.
Don’t forget the violin lessons confessions, I mean, EVERY parent wants money for those.
Because you are dumb as dirt.
We do realise Nostrils is just stirring, don’t we??
What Year Will the Next Federal Election be held?
2011 2.25
2013 2.35
2012 4.00
2010 6.50
hmmmm some dosh there
Pyne comes across as Downer’s kid brother. I fault him just for reminding me of the haughty tone South Australian privilege. The only good thing I’ve heard about Pyne is that he and Minchin hate each other.
Under the New Liberal Education policy, Open University will now be changed to Blank cheque University.
I made that statement as a response to you saying that Pyne didn’t made any effort to differentiate himself from Labor in terms of education. Well the reintroduction of full fee places for Australian students is one major plank of difference in Coalition education policy. It wasn’t really sold or publicised well though.
Stephen Smith….the calmest head and the safest hands in the Government.
Talking about university, does anyone know about abbot’s own success? was he sponsored by opus dei? i am sure part of his anger is righteous – he really does emotionally if not rationally believe he is on a mission, and cannt accept or understand failure having come so far against odds. I am not exaggerating this – it is something non believers might not consider. this and his right wing catholic background – opus dei for instance “intervened” in society, consciously creating through education social elites. Is this their favored son? Ask Pell.
that reminds me of one of the reasons i detested howard so much. that swine and his cabinet benefited from free uni education. including tony abbott spending decades loafing as he screwed anything that moved and decided whether or not to become a priest or a politician. as soon as they scramble up the taxpayer funded ladder like rats they immediately start trying to kick it away so no one else can have a chance. if those liberal parasites were serious about hecs they’d pay the taxpayer back for their free education, plus interest. of course that won’t happen because they love welfare, so long as it benefits them.
Why does the concept of polishing a turd spring to mind?
GhostWhoVotes
To paraphrase Christopher Pyne, “If you say it, it must be true”
…
Wait a minute, It was you who was doing the leaking wasn’t it?
Darren Laver@294
He is not that smart
University education is a privilege that should ONLY be conferred if someone earns the right by qualifying for a degree.
Purchasing a degree should be impossible. Full fee paying can work fine for overseas students who are taking places in our institutions but locals should have precedence and only on merit. Intelligence and hard work should be the qualifying criteria — the only qualifying criteria.
I wonder whether the Liberal Party is moving to becoming a right-wing revolutionary party advocating the overthrow of elected governments… I note the following behaviour:
(a) They never just oppose something or disagree, they increasingly use the most extreme and intemperate language, often with an sort of underlying implied threat about the most minor point;
(b) they have said the current Government is “illegitmate” or “illegal” and presumably that would mean that it cannot make valid laws, and would warrant disobedience by Crown agencies (eg Police/Armed Forces); and
(c) Their Party Journal (The Australian) calls for a political party to be “destroyed” .. not voted against or not supported but “destroyed”.
Are they a security threat?
I wonder whether the Liberal Party is moving to becoming a right-wing revolutionary party advocating the overthrow of elected governments… I note the following behaviour:
(a) They never just oppose something or disagree, they increasingly use the most extreme and intemperate language, often with an sort of underlying implied threat about the most minor point;
(b) they have said the current Government is “illegitmate” or “illegal” and presumably that would mean that it cannot make valid laws, and would warrant disobedience by Crown agencies (eg Police/Armed Forces); and
(c) Their Party Journal (The Australian) calls for a political party to be “destroyed” .. not voted against or not supported but “destroyed”.
Are they a security threat?
that’s because it was stupid. it’s hard to sell something when everyone knows it makes things worse. a major difference between the liberals and labor is that the liberals want to make tertiary education worse. how do you sell that? is there a full fee paying course you can take to learn how?
Ok I’ll admit it, it is Pyne’s nasally whiny drone and resemblance to beaker the Muppet.
Despite these obvious talents unfortunately he is also a vacuous twat who has never made a significant contribution to anything.
In the past, the Howard Government would generously lend you the money for local full-fee degrees through FEE-HELP even if you couldn’t pay up front.
Far from locking out deserving students from access, full-fee playing places is about choice. Those who really wanted to pursue their chosen career would have no qualms about borrowing the funds required to get in even if they are unable to get a commonwealth-supported HECS place.
Ghost who votes and #299: Smith is indeed an officer and a gentleman and I have great respect for him but would be amazed if he gets defence. He would be chewed up and spat out by this killer ministry! Needs a hardhead like Ludwig.
Dear old Nostradamus…. the election is over and Gillard won! Forget about Corangamite (consider it Corangawont). There are no more votes to count there except a couple of postals which may have got lost in the mail, the rest are counted and its all over. On that note, given we are 50:50 to 1 decimal place for sure at this election (maybe even 2, well see) it is astonashing no seats changed hands from election night (Dennison was predicted) and hardly any on less than 1000 margins!!
Yeah, choice. You can choose to be born into the aristocracy or you can choose not to be. Simple.
BK @ 167
yeah, but she also can’t afford to piss off MP’s by dropping them from the cabinet & risking them either resigning & causing a bye-election or else siding with the opposition or abstaining on key votes.
Ah c’mon. Beazley had defence and he was a soft cock.
Well, the Liberal Party is no swelling tide: more a stagnant inlet of deceit and betrayal.
The Liberals have been enlisted by Texan Republicanism and are trying to graft reactionary American values onto Australian politics. Malcolm Fraser clearly discerns this trend and has rejected it. It is a pity that other Liberals are so dumbly going along with this metamorphosis.
has anyone seen this? maybe it’s been mentioned but mordor has become completely unhinged. i knew they’d go feral but i thought they’d ramp it up and leave themselves somewhere to go. once you’ve copied a front cover of der sturmer complete with hook-nosed
jewpm where do you go next?oh, and does this remind anyone of certain ads run by a certain party in wa?
This is what I REALLY don’t understand about the Libs (and why you have to believe that they are following some kind of ideology rather than common sense):
They espouse the degrading of education (tertiary/trades and secondary — unless it is private);
They espouse the destruction of healthcare unless it is based on private;
They seek to destroy a needed technological infrastructure (NBN) to be replaced by an ad hoc private patchwork quilt;
They seek to have the average wage earner pay for privileged groups to allow those privileged groups to excel (PPL, Private Insurance rebates, University education)
And still they manage to seduce the western suburbites from our major cities???
I really don’t get it.
It’ll very likely be 50.1/49.9 so not exactly but I get what you’re saying.
And wasn’t the Leader of the Democrats Chip a Defence Minister and that raving Lefty Malcolm Fraser did a stint as Minister for the Army or somesuch?
The only word to describe Christopher Pyne is: sycophant
free uni education was good enough for howard and his ministers. why don’t you get them to ‘generously’ pay us back?
why should people have to borrow money and start off in debt because they worked hard and bettered themselves to pay 40% more tax on average than people who didn’t go to uni? the tax payer put j-ho and his cabinet through uni and the world didn’t end. how does it feel knowing your heroes were educated by gough whitlam?
Jenauthor, Labor fail to sell themselves to “working Australians” and the Liberals appeal to their social conservatism.
Itep
Do you think there is any connection between the Labor’s inability to “sell themselves” and the fact that a lot (most?) of them are just career politicians; that is represent only themselves?
jenauthor, the liberal party is composed of rich people and mugs voting against their own interest. the rich people are quite sensible to be liberal, they like being rich and want to stay that way. the mugs are poor and engage in a cargo-cult theory of wealth (if i act like them wealth will come!), or they engage in relative class warfare (we might be living under a bridge roasting rats over a fire but at least the darkies under he next bridge have to go without rats). now do you get it?
Jenauthor: what do you think about this hypothetical.
An Australian citizen wants to be a doctor. S/he just misses out on the uni entry mark. Ergo she doesnt get in. A foreigner on the other hand can get in and pay. So our Australian citizen emigrates, changes citizenship and then pays to come back and study as a student in Australia.
Would you support that situation given you support foreign fee paying students but not Australian?
you’ve only driven past universities, haven’t you?
While I agree with your argument in theory — I think JWH is a bit too old to have had a free university education, unless he did it as a mature age student.
The enrollment of full fee paying foreign students has a lot to do with under funding of universities. Many faculties need these full fee payers just to balance the books.
you are on some substance
You do like I did, you do a different degree along similar lines but not as ‘exclusive’ and you try a different route to your goal. Thus you prove yourself. A biomed science degree for instance … then if you really DO want to be a doctor, you sit the exam at the end of your degree.
There are quite a few ways to get what you want — they all take hard work but if you want it, you can usually get it.
Feminists have always argued that we will have equality in politics when incompetent women are preselected in the same way that incompetent men are.
The presence of women like Sophie Mirabella in the Libs just shows they have achieved this sooner than Labor!
Anony: R U referring to my spelling of Dennison and astonashing in previous posts? Oops. Actually spent far too much time in my life at Universities (or one at least). Just to clarify, thats doing different things, not trying to get through just one degree!!!
All I was suggesting is that the issue becomes murky once you accept fee payers. What percentage merit, and what percentage pay? There is a financial incentive to have foreign fee payers, but a social incentive to train locals with talent.
Jen, in answer to your question how anyone could vote Liberal can we try a word association game:
Mark Latham
A party does not one man make, Mod Lib. If that were the case nobody would vote Liberal.
Word association game?
Tony Abbott
Wow, great logic… If you’re on crack. Do you understand how universities are funded?
So in the case of Tony Abbott did circa 50% (2PP) of the Australian electorate vote for the quality of the man or the quality of the party?
Dont like Tony but he just beat a first term government in primary votes and seats only to lose out to a minority govt of various independents. In short, he did very well (much better than I had predicted/expeced (perhaps even wanted in terms of Lib leadership).
Tony wouldnt be my preferred PM but he wouldnt have destroyed this country. Latham on the other hand….
Yep. Johnny graduated in 1961. Whitlam only abolished fee in 1974. Mind you, he may have qualified for a Commonwealth Scholarship (introduced by Menzies). Limited numbers of these were available on a competitive basis each year (and paid for the fees for my first three years of uni, in fact, before Whitlam abolished the fees)
I’d vote for Latham over Abbott in a heartbeat… Answers your question?
I reckon they voted for fear, Scarpat.
Mod Lib, it would be unwise to under-estimate Stephen Smith. He has risen to every challenge hitherto. Defense is a very tough portfolio, for sure. The administrative workload is very heavy and there are complex, troubling policy issues affecting national security and international relations. But he has proven already that he has the capacity to work hard and has the temperament and resolve to apply himself to all the issues in the national interest.
He has a fairly reflective nature and, if he is sometimes reserved, he is also mercifully free from the usual verbosity we see in our politicians. He is an excellent choice for a notoriously difficult job. I heard his Anzac Day Speech at Galipolli in 2009. It was a very good speech – dignified, direct, poised and tender – and I think showed he has a subtle understanding of our national psyche. He is a very good choice for this job, which is ultimately about leadership and about serving the country’s deepest interests.
Hi Vera
Thinking of you. Hope all’s going as well as possible
Good night all.
Mod Lib, it is much easier in the case for those with dual citizenship
I should add that Abbott, on the other hand, went through during the “no fees” period.
no. i’m talking about how you don’t know you could study all the related work under a BSc or BA and then take the GAMSAT and get into medicine as a graduate. if you’re going to throw up a hypothetical, at least try and associate it with reality.
then why did the liberals increase full fee places at the expense of places for talented australians who didn’t have the money but had the brains? if you really are a moderate lib, must you stick up for everything the libs do, regardless of how dumb it is?
303 anony
wouldn’t that be interesting – libs become security threat – i am sure that will try to disrupt hor proceeding – maybe they will boycott or mass evictions – what next?? is that why labor recalled, or one reason?
jenauthor, and the other 50% out of fear
George, anyone who admits to wanting Latham for PM would need to be on something more than crack, that would need heavy duty anaesthetic agents, with some neurosurgery…
The Pyne defence?
I’d trust Latham over Rabbott.
Tingles down my spine and megajourno on now
Neither would have — although both would have had a good shot at it. We have checks and balanced, praise the powers that be.
The difference between Latham and Abbott however, is that Latham had a political ideology — he just didn’t have the wherewithal on a personal level, nor any class. He was, however, censored by moderates within the party who had the strength to cut him down. He is now consumed by bitterness, that has made his stance more extreme.
Abbott however, is driven by a personal and religious ideology that gives him a messianic zeal. And he has a number of sympathisers within and outside the party that egg him on. This is, in itself, more dangerous, because he is not tempered by logic and the ‘moderates’ do not have enough power over him.
I despair at the idea of hi as leader.
I don’t like what I’m seeing from gillard re media strategy. Seems identical to pre-election: let the negative stories run whilst quietly getting on with things. Her comments re not caring about the nightly news is exactly the wrong approach to use: where dus Abbott get his slogans across, who tells the punters how the govt is going? Yes wow Swan challenged matty franklin at the presser on tues: big deal?
The govt has to take on the media. They are on the prowl. Yes they scraped back in but good guys will finish last
gusface the liberal leadership cult started by howard is still going strong. they’re like the DPRK. remember the bawling in the crowd when howard conceeded?
opus dei and abbot anyone??
rudd succeeded by killing gently with howard’s song – seems most enlightened now dont you think, agreeing to disagree
I’ll tell you what, I feel like a bit of fun tonight. Let’s try this, I’ll write down some positives about Gillard/Labor and their policies and you counter for your side, ok?
Most important policy for the nation going forward: NBN
Julia Gillard’s strongest point as a political leader: good negotiator
Your turn
Some things are just best not forgotten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjklT59clE4
Latham was the worst ever, I can’t imagine how the Leftards thought he would be their saviour. 2004 was a great result. Got a majority in the Senate, and Fielding got elected on Labor’s own botched preferencing…. lol.
Anony, as it happens I am aware of the postgrad medical degree at USYD… without explaining further. That and Jen’s alternative response are fine, but dont answer the question. Do you support Aus citizens emigrating and returning as foreign students? This is a matter of the principle not whether or not it is the only option.
BTW, it was Dawkins in the Hawke ALP govt that introduced fees for university degrees. Just as it was an ALP govt that introduced mandatory detention of asylum seekers, although you wouldnt think it given the holier-than-thou attitude of some on this!
There was similar verbal bawling on this site when Julia replaced Kevin.
Scarps
low blow
but at least most have moved on
and lew kuan decided the issue
2004 was indeed a great result as it lead to Work Choices and 2007.
I’ll play George for the libs
A majic money tree
Stopping the boats
Gus, that is why I played halfback to your second row or lock
The Chasers sussed out Rabbott pretty well years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvYzLIywCiA&feature=PlayList&p=F160F2333E738241&playnext=1&index=14
Does.Not.Compute.
George 358: I’ll see your NBN and negotiating skills (agreed):
Lib: 6m maternity leave and $1.5 billion on mental health
TA: Conviction.
I am assuming you are forcing me to say something nice about Tony and not the people I would like to lead the party???
scarps
at least you didnt go for the xmas hold
Have we heard yet hos much abbott’s final mega offer was? He of the financially responsible black hole party?
And half the voters wanted this guy as PM??
Julie…..PM
Swan….Deputy and Treasurer
Rudd….Foreign Affairs
Smith…Defense
???…….Finance…Emerson ??
Combet.Climate Change ??
Albo…..Leader in the House
This is a strong start – so much better than anything the LNP would be able to muster.
Not at all Mod Lib – we certainly appreciate Tone’s STOP THE BOATS, very IMPORTANT for this country. As was vilifying an indian doctor, a mentally sick woman, and allowing asylum seekers to drown so as to benefit politically. All good stuff.
BTW, how many Libs are members of the League of Rights? Any other groups you wish to bring up that scum from within the Liberal ranks adhere to?
Any time you want to have a holier-than-thou discussion, we all appreciate it here
See, centaur knows how to play! Damn it centaur, that magic money tree sure looks damn good – it just keeps paying out Billion dollar notes like there’s no tomorrow!
Mark Latham is a reminder that politicians are only too human, and subject to all the usual frailties. I am quite sure that if the choice had been Latham and Abbott, Abbott would have won with 30 seats to spare.
Whoa!
Laura Tingle had a go about Noos Ltd on Lateline and Mega ‘sortof’ defended by saying that Bob Brown’s argument is the ABC had ‘cut and pasted’ the Australian’s lines.
Closest thing I’ve seen to arguing bias I’ve seen!
Mod Lib, going by your choice of nom de blog (I am assuming that Mod stands for moderate) who do you see as being Moderates in the Liberal Party?
BTW, how’s support coming long from with the Lib party on that? Not to mention it’s a nice handout for small business. But then again, we Wibewals don’t care much for the struggling families out there, do we?
It seems there are many Latham lovers posting tonight, so there are laughs all round I guess!!!
Anyone want to voice support for NSW ALP next March while we are at it? It would be good to see whether the vote is going to be single or double digits (prob the only thing you can bet on for that particular election)
George: you want ALP returned in NSW dont you? Please give me this joy before I go to bed tonight. Then perhaps do the positives for Mark Latham as well (that will gaurantee my sweet dreams tonight).
Ooo! ooo! ooo! I know this one! wait! ooo! ooo! ….. nope, it’s gone
modlib, do you support sending a duck to mars? this is a matter of principle not whether or not it is the only option.
Mod Lib — this argument is really kind of silly — if they can afford to emigrate they can afford to be full fee payers in another part of the world. The numbers would be negligible even if they could/would be bothered.
Mod Lib – I guess you’re one of those who reads between the lines rather than what’s in the actual sentences. Let me make it clear so you and I are on the same page:
I wouldn’t p*ss on Tone and the Libs if you paid me. kay?
Jen
the march of the Ents has begun
sauromon tower is next
then mordock
once the NBN is built- one ring will not be enough to control the masses
It is the greatest achievement in spin thatboth Howard and Abbott are viewed by some as conviction politicians. They are both crass populists and political opportunists willing to do and say whatever it takes to win votes.
Abbott said the ppl was over his partys dead body, he said the opp should pass an ets. His only conviction is in god of maybe that he is god
Scarpat, I would have loved to see Malcolm run the party. Imagine Rudd backing down on climate change and Libs fighting for it at this last election! I would have loved to see Costello as PM (I think many would be surprised given his impression as a right winger, he is not) and basically I would love a country with a moderate small “l” liberal party rather than a right wing conservative party. Those suggesting we have an extreme right wing party though have no idea what they are talking about. Australia’s most extreme right wing pollies would fit in well with the Democratic party in US. We are well to the left of the USA and many many other countries (thankfully)!
I gather you’re joking, ModLib. The only conviction TA has besides TA is God.
Started here at 7.30 BK and it got so boring I fell asleep!
Gee, George Mega was squirming in his seat while trying to defend the OO. What a pathetic answer even if I did feel a bit sorry for him. He has to keep the $s coming in I guess.
It coming to me …..hold on…..maybe ……oh…….what about…oh ok yep um but there is always…..oh thats right………but you know thingrybob is ……oh forgot about that
A conviction politician in full flight.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663853365.html
They should be convicted for crimes against humanity and good taste as well
Gusface :ioi:
the king (well queen) is returned — there will be order in the world now that mordor is defeated.
Oh, and Obiwan would be proud of her.
Finns
I just watched The Cove.
Mod Lib, if Malcolm had remained as leader of the Liberals then the ETS would have passed (and it would have most probably have been a Rudd vs Turnbull election). If the minority Labor Government proves to be stable, would you see it likely that Abbott would be replaced in this term and would there be enough moderates in the Party to see the return of Turnbull?
I think JG’s strongest points are her warmth as a person, her clarity and her courage. I do not think she is always the most astute politician, but she seems to have the ability to learn from her errors and she is certainly willing to have a crack at things. Even if some of her moves miss their target, I think she will be given the benefit of the doubt by the public precisely because of her very visible personal characteristics – her warmth, humour and have-a-go gutsiness.
In a way, I think this is what people like about Abbott as well: he is obviously willing to have a red-hot go, win, lose or draw.
A 1 billion dollar hospital, with golden turrets, toilets and bed pans- it will be Australia’s answer to the man made wonders of the world, tourists will flock and increase Australia’s and tasmanias tourist trade.
A renovated and refurbished skills stadium for Geelong FC
(things that people really want, not faster emails and wires that tie everyone down to desktop computers)
Anyway this is by far one of the best comedy pieces of the year so far.
http://www.liberal.org.au/~/media/Files/Policies%20and%20Media/Economy/Coaition%20Economic%20Principles%2018%20May%202010.ashx
Even I could have coped with a Turnbull PM. He can handle himself a heck of a lot better than the chest-beating, knuckle dragging religious loon that presently front the party.
In all honesty, I’d be ashamed for him to represent us OS. Really and truly — he is embarrassing how he speaks etc. He has no class at all.
Hey Steve — was that link a joke? It seems I have no application to open the file. Typical of the Libs — all hot air.
This govt wont be stable. Initially all will be sunshine and smiles, but at the end of the day you have 150 people with 155 views and 130 of which think they should be PM. They will realise their individual power and make use of it I suspect….
Lets say there is stability, I think if it is looking like Tony is going to lose (say if he loses it in a major blowout as I thought would have already happened) then I think it will be someone else rather than Turnbull (prob Hockey). Then when he loses next election, that would be the only time Turnbull has a chance. Other “out there” scenario could be if Costello comes back (not doing much apart from odd paper piece is he?) when someone in a safe Vic seat steps aside, and I think he could take the leadership and win- esp if there is a double dip recession looming…
I think abbotts appeal was to the male centric view
we still live in a patriarchial society
Jenauth, well…ummm…gulp… he does represent me already…I live in his electorate
.
Totally agree Jen – although I would never vote for him, I wouldn’t be embarrassed that he was Australia’s PM. It was bad enough hoe the rest of world saw us when JWH was the PM. But Tone? gawd that would be a complete fiasco
So endeth the lesson… and now I’ll pass the donation basket around….
Yeah — I wondered whether, when push came to shove, quite a few men couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a woman.
C’mon George, do me a favour. Just put it in writing: I will be voting for ALP at the next NSW election.
(Hope you are from NSW otherwise you wont get this I guess)
centaur
Actually, it’s about the same cost per capita as the proposed new hospital in Adelaide. Hospitals are really expensive.
My sympathies, Scarpat.
so both Laura and George agree that Oakshott made the right decision not to take up a ministry with the govt.
George thinks that Turnbull should be given Finance Portfolio, because Hockey and Robb were not up to the task.
Laura thinks the noise coming from the media is going to be problematic.
George thinks Bob Brown is more upset that the ABC are cutting and paste the OO content.
Have I missed anything?
Mod Lib – Other that the US, what other developed country are we to the left of.
About time someone told the Libs this:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/opinion/post/-/blog/andrewprobyn/post/132/comment/1
Gusface@403
You wish, Dad.
C’mon George, do me a favour. Just put it in writing: I will be voting for ALP at the next NSW election. ]
SFB’s
I have invested a school at $9.00
the greens are our friends
Stopping the advertising, the bats, the boats, the cats, the dogs, the economy, the fish, the grants, the houses, the independants, the japs, the kensiain theories, the lesbians, the maternity leave, the NBN, the octopus (and its predictive powers), the poofs, the queers, the rates, the speeches, the tariffs, the useless spending, the vex, the waste, mr X, the youth, the zoloft
Diogenes@409
Only cos Drug and Medical Supply companies charge an arm and a leg for equppment and other items.
While I hate state politics and they have been responsible for much of the negative stuff the fed govt has had to cop … the state Liberals are ‘almost’ as pitiful as the state Labor here in NSW.
I’d like to abolish both sides and start again from scratch.
JV
funnilt enough when you dig a bit deep into the bogan brain,their is the male conditioning response
ie dad knows best
Hopefully JG has smashed that chimera
victoria – yes, the lovely bit where George said Abbott, Hockey and Robb had a GBNHole totalling $10BILLION. I wanted to replay that bit over and over. The intimation that Hockey and Robb were a useless pair of economic twits was also pretty good.
Centaur
stop the synapses
Mod Lib I’m from Victoria, you know, where all the lefties are. Vote for who you like mate, but you’ll never find me voting Liberal/Nats.
Jen, don’t tell me you are voting Lib in March?
Frank
The legitimacy thing probably won’t work in states that have had minority governments that worked. From what I can see in Adelaide, it is barely mentioned possibly because Rann initially had a minority govt which was probably his best term. I gather Vic had one recently which many Victorians thought worked well.
Even WA is kind of similar. I’d be interested to see if it plays out differently in different states.
Even lots of Libs I talk to here aren’t buying the illegitimacy thing. It really depends on how it runs.
BH
Yes of course. I also forgot to add that George found this election result unlike any other. He said that the coalition basically got the heartland of QLD and WA the mining states. Labor got the rest. Therefore the policies of mining tax and ets will still be opposed by the coalition, and Labor will need to pursue the policy of the ets to satisfy their base.
Sometimes you are so bad you are good.
Pedro, what about western Europe? The right wingers there are far to the right of even Pauline Hanson (who was never elected despite multiple attempts in this country once not under the umbrella of a major party and out on her own)
George
I have no shame is saying that I will be voting for State Labor here in Victoria come Nov. I see nothing from the Libs to suggest they will govern any better.
Frank
You should see how much an arm and a leg cost!!
Marrickville Mauler 258
Thank you for your nitpicking as to spelling of surname. It is obviously a matter of major importance to you.
As to “Macca”, as you so gushingly refer to him, he can’t put two sentences together, in the public arena at least – a boring waffler, and you know it as well as I do. Your deep personal affection for him obviously influences your professional judgment.
There is no comparison between Dreyfus and “Macca” – Dreyfus with a proven professional careeer at the Bar, and “Macca” a one time associate to a very ordinary Federal Court Judge, and of course an NSW Labor Right hack, and not forgetting son of Douglas McClelland, another party hack and time waster, who deprived good people of entry into federaL politics.
My knowledge and judgment is as sound as yours, though I don’t pretend to be as knowledgeable or sanctimonious as you.
I am not interested whether they are good blokes or not; competence should be to the fore, and “Macca” is clearly not.
Dio
How many have you traded?
I agree, Jenauthor. Both Lab and Lib in NSW are pretty woeful. Labor needs to drastically renew and the Libs need a charisma jolt. It will be business as usual after 2011. The Libs will win – they’ll stuff up pretty quickly and Labor had better be ready to come back with better pollies and policies in 2015.
BH
Also, what did you make of the Alliance opposing plain packaging. Surprise surprise, the Tobacco companies are behind it.
And most importantly stop the bus…..it’s going to explode
Agree Victoria
centaur
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
dont go below 50 mph
aint you see speed?
Nope — I find I might vote independent or green … depends on what’s available in my electorate.
Voting ALP in Vic is not the issue, have no problems with that. I am talking about voting
ALP in NSW. The next NSW state election is going to be fantastic as it will give us the most precise estimate of the “rusted on vote” as no-one will vote ALP in NSW other than the absolutely rusted on-would-vote-ALP-even-if-the-devil-was-leading-it voters.
Any NSW bloggers here care to disagree? Those in other states probably wouldnt understand what we are going through here…
Western Europe is well to the left of any of any anglosphere country, the mainstream “conservative” parties there sit about were our Labor party is.
jenauthor
I know that State Labor in NSW is a basket case, but what have been the main policy failures of this govt?
Watching Falling Down- one of my favorite movies- It’s Conroy on a bender!!!! hahahaha
mod lib
come march the alp will have a minority gvt
fatty couldnt tie his shoelaces let alone run the premier state
the peeps have vented
why oh why didnt we suffer so badly as the banjo state?
BH@420
Yes, the clear inference was that Economic Team Lib was B grade, and that Turnbull is the best chance to improve that standing.
Generally, Tingle and Megalogenis giving commentary is so refreshingly intelligent and incisive. I could listen to them as a team every night on Lateline.
The line from George about the ABC lifting News Ltd’s riffs was very bold. They clearly aren’t his own riffs. He’s the exception.
Gusface are you seriously suggesting NSW ALP will win the next election in a minority government? Or are you talking about the Federal minority government?
Anyone else want to barrack for NSW ALP here?
‘mod’lib. are there any liberal party policies you are opposed to or don’t approve of? what are they?
are there any liberals you wouldn’t vote for? who are they?
Queensland is on a knife edge with the Tories set to win in theory if they replace Langbroek with prissy little Timmy Nicholls, a Clayfield Toff. I think he grew up in Toorak or somewhere down south where they inject blue into their arms, but if he rolls Langbroek the LNP war starts anew so they are at a Mexican standoff and might have to close their eyes and get the lucky dip machine out again to decide the Liberal Leader.
George
Going back to the State election in Nov. One thing that caught my eye in the Herald Scum today was that the Libs want to reduce stamp duty on house purchases. Victoria pay the highest rate of stamp duty in Australia. If the stamp duty rate is reduced, it will create a big revenue hole. Therefore I don’t know where the Libs will make up the shortfall. But having said that, I think our Stamp duty rates are obscene.
more to the point
we retained the boganistas
aside benelong it was not a wipeout
bad omen for the O’barrel
mod
answer 448
otherwise continue the diatribe
victoria @440 I’d like to be able to say that before the next NSW election I’ll be able to study the alternate policies and make an informed decision – but I’m buggered if I know how to find out! And the consistent vitriol from the likes of the Telegraph make it even worse. I’ve yet to form a complete opinion about NSW. There’s something obviously weird with the power brokers. Keneally seems OK.. but I suspect that to the extent that things haven’t got done it has more to do with a dysfunctional state bureaucracy. And there’s nothing to convince me that the libs could do a better job.. or even care. For all I know they just want to make a big splash and have lots of cuts. Rather than doing the hard yards and reforming the bureaucracy.
Anyhow thats all I feel competent to comment on. Anyone want to find a simple and fair comparison of policies.. or even just fair outline of what Labor have done?
Anony, I don’t support either parties Asylum seeker policy, happy with a modest mining tax rather than the whack in the head (so don’t support just rejecting it outright when mining companies have agreed to pay it) Didnt support not signing Kyoto (although I correctly predicted that signing it was entirely symbolic and meaningless as has been the case) and not apologising to Aboriginal Australians.
As to any Libs I wouldnt vote for, how about the current leader?
I agree on both counts, but it’s the Lib’s modus operandi – pick a policy area, oversell the problem, then offer to make life better by promising to fund/cut from the ether. Yes, great “economic managers” those Libs.
I guess the other thing Id like to say is that to some extent we’re seeing the end result of Howard starving state governments and pushing the blame onto them.. it suited him after all they were all Labor.
@451, so I take it you didn’t vote for Abbott this time round. Good on ya.
BTW Vic, how on earth do you stomach reading that paper?
More lack of funding and corruption/stupid mistakes of ministers than anything. The Telegraph has been even more savage than the OO in flogging the ALP here. Nothing they do is right (even when it is) and 98% of buses and trains running on time is a DISGRACE! It should be 99.9%. (Don’t know the exact figs but its a bit like the school halls thing … nothing is good enough even when a lot of people are happy).
THe Libs have failed to capitalise — they just have nobody with personality in their ranks to take it up to the govt … thus the Telegraph is actually the main player (oh, Ch9 has a red hot go on a daily basis, too).
I hate state politics, though, and don’t really care, the above are just dispassionate observations in a way … if we have state lib govt we have a state lib govt … doesn’t worry me. Just as local govt doesn’t worry me.
These levels of government are about service delivery, they do not set the psychological tone of the country. That is why I am so passionate about fed politics — the party who leads dictates our national identity, and I, for one, don’t want my perception of my national identity to be in Abbott’s image.
Also if one looks at Britain the tories had to go with a very moderate leader in Cameron and still needed to form a coalition with a centre left party to form government ( and that in the middle of an economic meltdown.)
In Australia the liberals run with a rabid rightwinger and get within a cigarette paper of winning (despite a sound economy).
Tells us were the “centre” really lies down here.
Cud
the biggest smear the fibs have created is one of corruption in NSW
forget facts
anyhoo the real investment has been maintained over the term of the ALP
many many peeps would be unemployed if the fibs decided to ahem rationalise the states infrastructure
cud chewer
do you live in NSW? If so, you would be able to ascertain what the issues are and how they are being tackled. Labor must have a position they are taking, and the Libs must be putting forward their case as to what their priorities might be. I suppose that may be the best way to make a judgment.
george
It is a crap paper, but it reports extensively on AFL. I love my footy. Don’t judge me harshly!!
and NSW’s real take of GST has gone from 42% to 32%
Howie really wanted to screw over his hometown
Mark Dreyfus? Can’t say I know him, but anyone who puts Kim Carr AND Stephen Conroy offside can’t be too bad:
Unfortunately, the Dreyfus report hasn’t prevented the current chronic problem in the party from developing. Is he available to assist Tanner and Faulkner & friends to fix it properly, I wonder?
Like Fed Labor — the media doesn’t allow for the dissemination of policy. They are old hands at soap opera political reporting. No ALP on the east coast has a hope of getting a fair shake.
jenauthor
so the circular argument is Noos Ltd. is damaging Labor!!
Gusface 448: You are right. ALP saved govt by not losing a number of potential NSW losses (Lindsay, Robertson and Greenway in particular but surprisingly also Banks). As I mentioned in a post ages ago this will feed NSW right’s belief that they are/were/are always correct and everyone should just listen. Referred to as poison by current ALP President I believe…
Forget about the near misses in Federal seats. Have a look at the State By-elections. There have been 4 with swings of about 20-25%. In other words one in every two ALP voters changed their minds in the recent by-elections. What does that tell you about March?
Or the west coast … lets face it, having a labor govt right now is a miracle all things considered.
Mod
all i can say with certainty is that our friends the Ents(greens) will help us cross the line
One cannot extrapolate to one state (qld) then non extrapolate to another (nsw)
oh and nsw has the most intelligent goodlooking and discerning voters in the land
Source or Sauce?
Again — the difference between Fed & State — identity vs service delivery. And the above comment is correct — Howard starved the states and we are now reaping the ‘benefits’. A starved govt cannot do service delivery that pleases everyone. Infrastructure has died in the bum as a result.
State premiers could walk across the harbour bridge on their ears and they still wouldn’t be able to deliver. All I can say is thanks to the selfishness of JWH and Costello — they gave money directly to people in the form of tax cuts and middle-class welfare rather than putting the money where it was needed. 10 years is a lot of neglect to make up and state govts are really behind the 8 ball, especially Labor states.
Had a ball tonight so thanks to all for playing along! C ya next time once ministries announced…
Thanks Gus — don’t usually take comments personaly, but will do so here!
funny how the fibs and their cohorts scarper when facts are wheeled out
jen
you know its the truth
Once all this hoohaa dies down – the Libs will have to ask themselves: how did they only manage to only score 39% (on the censored Newspoll) as preferred party to form govt with the indies, mere days after a 50-50 2PP vote?
To the ALPs 47%?
I think they’ll realise sooner or later that its Phoney – good scrapper, but not a potential PM.
Gusface@472
Yeah in fact this is their theme song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysq2qmdI3g0
george
well where do we start
maybe 1998 coag?
or the seminal 2002 screwover
or the 2005 sleight of hand?
or should we start with the complicity of both the media and the business class in the virtual regression to 1893 conditions?
decisions? decisions?decisions?
I’m gonna turn in too — promised myself I’d ween myself off this addiction called PB. Not doing too well — must be everyone’s wit and intelligence.
AM going to try to abstain tomorrow — remind of my promise if I dare to comment!
Gusface@468
Now mod lib has gone I can quietly poit out that in fact she did. Technically a poison is not a disease, although the former certainly causes the latter, as it has done now federally.
jenauthor@478
Piker, gonna pull an all nighter listening to this:
http://www.innerfm.org.au/portal07/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=347&Itemid=51
signing off. night all.
JV
sunshine
try a little harder
also context man context!!
JV
remind me how many bajo strummers we lost
anna is covering her ass
Its called politics
hth
I’m slow with my bumpkin genetics but it is Rudd for Foreign Affairs and Smith for finance?.
frank
teh greenies rae our friends
remember some greenies wear sheeps fur
*from fib hq haberdashery*
Gusface
Yes, Bligh must have been taken out of context. I’m sure she wouldn’t dare say it in the context of the Tall Timbers of a Saturday arvo.
JV
i reckon anna would clean up the pussies who sip shandys at ourimbah
anyways real men drink at the chitt
Gusface@487
I must come up to the chitt and talk chitt some day.
I reckon we will see a highly disciplined Labor Backbench and Ministry. There will be a lot more attention given to developing, articulating and advocating policy, not only in relation to climate change, infrastructure, health and education but also in relation to the whole legislative program; a lot of attention on the budget and the economy; and a lot of effort given to the twin political tasks of confronting the Liberals and consulting the Independents.
This will be an activist Parliament that the LNP are going to try to disrupt. If the Government can keep the public’s attention on their legislative program and on the delivery of real services, and keep in tune on the economy, the LNP will soon start to lose traction. But it is essential that the Government not only does a good job, but is also seen to to be doing well. So discipline, achievement, cohesion, advocacy, confidence, activism…..these will be at the centre of the Government’s strategy. And of course, the Independents, having achieved the opportunity to become far more active will now find their time is fully consumed, and will be recruited to supporting Labor whenever Parliament is in session.
Labor know they have had the narrowest possible reprieve. They will be giving everything they have making the most of it.
JV
at the chitt its chitt all day
chitt chitt chitt
sometime we even chat
Gusface@490
a lot of Kiwi regulars by the sound of it.
Which is what the diggers did. Hence the expression. Getting rid of lice was sitting around chatting.
grey@492
Crikey. Thanks, just in time.
Thanks for the offer Gusface, but unless there’s a chemical dip available on the way out of the pub, I will leave you to your lice-ridden Kiwi mates, to “chitt” away the afternoon. (get it?)
Pity, I have some good tips for tomorrows races too.
As to the Opposition and it’s campaign in the House.we must remember that in all events the House will only have a brief session from late September until mid-late-October this year.
It said that they have no great legislative program ready to go,so when that session is over it will adjourn ,probably until February,for a session that will go till Easter,and then break for a Budget session in May
By then we will be close to the date when the Green Balance of Power will take effect in the Senate
While the House is in recess the Government is under NO pressure at all
Parliament always works as a force to help oppositions,not governments,so the long recesses ahead will help Julia in many ways….a hinder the opposition .
JV
tomorrow i am on home duties
ps the chitt is cool
we even get islanders as well
i must mention your lice jape to em next time
sure it will go down well
Briefly – I can’t really see how we can get much done – legislation will have to be negotiated with the independents, Wilkie, the Greens, everything will move at a snails pace.
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=185402&story=Golden_Rose_Glory_For_Toorak_Toff
deblonay
True, but it’s the same every year. The difference will be the delay in controversial bills until July, and there aren’t many of those. The other difference will be the indies/Greens propositions which they can successfully negotiate with Labor or (possibly) the Libs, which logically will be timed for arrival in the Senate in July too. It will take months to negotiate those anyway, seeing as the money side is so critical.
Deb
JG will repeat extend the sept session
abbott and co wont know what hit em
ps who actually has the DD trigger
Gvt or Oppo?
Gusface
Ah, sounds like the sabre is alight again, after its 200,000 km service. Congratulations. Go tiger.
PEDRO, you could be right, but the Independents want action on a lot of things the Government also wants. There is a lot of support for more investment in health and education, infrastructure, broadband….this runs across the board. And the I’s have insisted the Government have a public review on Tax and the Climate Change Committee will crank up. A lot of the impetus for these moves is coming from the I’s, so I think the outlook is favourable. If this Parliament gets bogged down, the I’s will suffer at the next election, but if it produces a good record, there will be very big political benefits for everyone in the Majority. I’m optimistic. And this will suit JG very well. This is one of her strengths.
Emerson to Trade…..great idea!
Any news on Finance?
Penny Wong?
Stephen is always on for a challenge.
This parliament, because of the composition that has spontaneously emerged, has the potential to be one of the most beneficial since Federation. Apart from the two world wars, the issues now are of greater importance than any since 1901. The issues now are global, complex, and life-threatening. They are scientific; economic; social and educational.
With a hung House of Reps and a hung Senate and with independents and Greens acting in good faith in the interests of the people represented, rather than in the selfish interests of a majority pragmatic big party and its adherents, we have to be starting the session with an advantage not seen in my lifetime, anyway.
I’m energised by this outcome for its promise alone. It still seems surreal to me – like winning a lottery, or even better, an argument.
Perhaps surprisingly, j v, I agree with you. I am optimistic too. The sense of things is that now is the time for boldness and resolution. And yet, the LNP are waiting, carnivores in the forest, ready to tear down their prey and consume them. Still, fortitude is what the situation demands.
Does this mean you are less jaundiced in your views?
Still no firm signs of renewed recession in the US – merely a persistent slowdown.
briefly@507
The views are on hold for sure.
This is like that first full-on sexual night with the partner of your dreams you have won over – you don’t want it to end. (Crikey, I still remember that? Don’t say anything).
So, yes, I’m hoping the government stays as is for the full term, and want to see what it can do. Like getting your leg over your first big motorbike and wanting to see how fast you can go (remarkable, still remember that too).
Well, it’s … vicarious PR. Sexy…
Unlike fantasy world of j/v , I see this minority Govt being slowed down in process on one hand , subject to th 4 HoR ‘friends instability heck not sure what all 4 agree on in actual substanse , and not able to get all 3 Undys and Greens to agree on basic Labor polisy Bills like th Mining Tax , Health Insuranse levy Bill (prev rejected twice) , a CC CPRS Bill etc
All 3 factors may damage Labor’s brand of not ‘producing’ longer this govt lasts , and with its unstable HoR nature is possible to lead to an early electon , perhaps pre xmas 2011
Therefore Labor politcal & positions prioritys i think need big scale like : should prob store some DD triggers (to introduce to new Senate early post July 2011) , ensure no repeat BER waste perseptions programs eg NBN , ensure NBN roll out is as wide spread as posible , get an understandable Climate Bill & MRRT Bills to 2 Senate votes , finish BER program , get Hospital reforms to some more tangible stage for public to see , and regioanal developmnet programs up/running This will allow a Labor govt at next Poll to sell what it stands for and has done
Can’t be any worse than the last hollow 3 years r/Ron. They’ve had their chance and blown it. They won’t change what they do in the Arbibitar rooms unless they have to. The hung parliament makes those back room slags much less influential. That’s why what has happened is Good.
The Melbourne electorate is having second thoughts about its decision to back the Greens.
Many will be saying come November “Last time I voted Green. I will not make that mistake again”
D@W, you were located some distance from the electorate of Melbourne, last I heard.
The forces of ignorance at play in this Florida “burn the book/don’t burn the book” story are more significant than this particular instance itself. The depths of insight available from it as to how imbued we are in ancient superstition are legion. Sheer basic stupidity and prejudice from centuries ago on display in 2010. It’s as if there has been no education or growth in knowledge, or anything other than straight inculcation of repetitive stubborn ignorance from generation to generation since 1492.
The other element is that the local iman, as ignorantly medieval as he is, comes across as a man of enlightenment, compared with the be-whiskered Florida pastor and his attitudes and crude signs. All this in what some would say is the most advanced western democracy in world history. Just mind-boggling. Is Florida anywhere near Salem, Massechussets?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/10/3008989.htm
The other thing about the Florida christian pastor flake is his name is Jones. Not another one. He had a gun on his desk too, I noticed.
Does anyone else think that Warren Snowdon will be dropped? If I recall correctly, he was one of the few MPs that Kevin Rudd could call a friend (and may have been picked for that reason, along with his geographic location), and he never seemed that talented.
I’m not a fellow blessed by my parental financial arrangements. Both hard workers, good and true the pair of them. I am lucky. Plenty worse off. What I hate is people well off telling me how to live.
The Dr is in: Morning all early birds
I’m with you Grey there is nothing worse than people trying to tell one how to live their life.
I should be shocked. But I’m not. I think I am suffering from NSW Labor corruption, cronyism and scandal fatigue.
Too many ethical lapses: Barbour
How minister’s playwright mate got in on the act
I should be a Whale somewhere. Diving deep into the silence
But I can’t so I wont.
Typical Radio Liberal:
I like this display of egocentricity of our Curious Snail and from their ABC.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/queensland-premier-anna-blighs-hospital-stint-is-just-a-stunt/story-e6frerdf-1225917473189
A nice piece of work.
What qualifications in political science would one have if they were to move from radio announcer to political commentator on ABC radio and/or the major Capital city newspaper?
Is a Premier entitled to any respect from radio announcers these days or are Premiers just elected to be the butt of cheap jokes?
steve,
none/no
Sorry BH, I realised my error some hours later.
I read in some Murdoch rag that Gillard will be announcing her cabinet this afternoon.
Speaking of Murdoch:
Oh, I see Frank, if you are a radio announcer in Sydney you get to question the qualifications of political advisers to Windsor but if a radio announcer in Brisbane just set yourself up as a political guru irrespective of any qualifications .
As per 2GB
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/andrew-wilkie-threat-to-block-mine-tax-as-labor-alliance-tested/story-fn59niix-1225917756151
G’day Bludgers
“Speaking of Murdoch” as Frank said; what would mornings be like without the latest revelation about just how low his minions stoop. MPs backed down from calling Rebekah Brooks to Commons: Cross-party committee allegedly abandoned plans to force News International chief to testify after being warned their lives would be investigated
Something from my years of having my head stuck in “Growth of English Freedom” books tells me that this is a “high crime” (was even at a time monarchs were still trying to browbeat the Commons into submission) meaning the Tower & usually the Block.
Recall just how much of Australia’s media this same organisation controls; how far its tentacles reach into other print media, TV, sport; the roles it has already played in destabilising federal & state governments. Read the Tories’ role in passing on Ms Brooks’ threats (aka blackmail) instead of going to the police with them, and consider how close we came in the last few weeks to having Murdoch back in our Federal Government’s “good books”.
Morn’n Ozpol amazing story, I wasn’t aware of that one.
And The Inde’s cartoont on the Hacking scandal:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/the-daily-cartoon-760940.html
Catching up on the overnight traffic, and commenting as I go, so sorry if this is out of sync:
Mod Lib – so it would appear that the only section of the Labor party you have problems with is NSW. I’d also nominate WA and QLD as concerns. That leaves Tasmania, Victoria, SA where the Liberal party is completely hopeless (and hopeless, at least in Victoria, to an extent where they’re totally unbelievable; I think we must have them on the payroll).
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove by getting posters here to say “Oh yes, NSW is crap”. Does that automatically mean that the ALP as a whole is therefore useless? Or is it just an attempt to paint us all as rusted ons?
If the first, then by your own criteria, the Libs are far worse. Even in QLD, where the ALP is travelling badly, they’re still too busy shoring up their own individual positions to bother about being an alternative government.
So if we’re to measure the relative performances of the parties by their performance in the States, I’m sorry, you lose.
If the second, you’re obviously a newbie. I haven’t seen much support from anyone for NSW Labor here. Its flaws have been well and truly discussed.
I welcome you to start a discussion about whether anyone in their right mind will be voting Liberal in Victoria and the Federal implications of this.
Dear jaundiced – the Dreyfus review was specifically into Victoria, which as a result now has the toughest rules against branch stacking in the country. Of course it hasn’t ‘worked’ on a Federal level because it hasn’t been applied there and probably couldn’t be (different rules govern each state ALP’s operations, so flaws Dreyfus found in Victoria wouldn’t be relevant to NSW or QLD).
The Vic branch has taken Dreyfus very seriously.
And for today’s smile. Does this mean Mad Mark l will live for-EV-AH?
Strength of your handshake may indicate how long you’ll live
It’s a good read!
What is the problem with the stories in your links. There is no Ministerial corruption in these stories. The Art Minister was only doing her job and the playwright was only publicising himself, where he was able, through his talent and hard work, to achieve some of his goals, just like many other aspiring playwrights before him and many in the future.
The second story shows how corrupt public servants can and will get if allowed.
Morning Bludgers!
Shock! Looks liek Australia’s corner store ownegs didn’t have the millions spare to fund the anti-tobacco packaging media campaign. Big Tobacco (Phillip Morris) was funding it all along:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/big-tobacco-hired-public-relations-firm-to-lobby-government-20100910-154yg.html
I am not a lawyer but is this any kind of fraud? They ran a lot of ads during the election campaign that did not list who really authorised or paid for the ads.
Yet another reason for the media rules, including the farcical self regulation of advertising, to be overhauled. The Greens, Labor and Indies must see that they will always lsoe more from this situation thant they gain, for as long as corporate Australia sides with the Coalition. The Rudd government was one of the most successful economic managers in Australian history, savign our businesses billions, yet they still kept mum in the campaign. They are not friends. Time to act.
STOP THE CRACKS!!!!!!!
Another CRACK:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/andrew-wilkie-threat-to-block-mine-tax-as-labor-alliance-tested/story-fn59niix-1225917756151
Ha Senorita, good morning. i am cracking up.
The media monopolies in Australia have to be broken up, root-and-branch. They are a menace to democracy. They have to be dismembered.
Regarding the SMH stories about the Arts Minister, Ms Judge, Muskiemp is right, for once I agree there is no scandal. Nothing in the SMH story suggests any power was misused. Judge did not allocate any money to Nikkas. Nor did she instruct others to do so. If she was involved in a fund allocation decision, she shoudl have declared any association or conflict of interest, but on the face of it I think this is a beat up. A lot worse goes on in the areas like land development and government contracts, so I don’t know why they bothered with this. People are allowed to have friends.
Further the second story (Barbour’s examples) is unrelated to the first. The examples in it are genuine corruption though, but none involve Judge, so I think the link is unfair.
Good Day Dr
Mod Lib @438
I’d suggest the online equivalent of a cold political shower: find LP, PB, Possum, Oz forums (now The Daily Bludge) and other OzPol blogs’s archived for the month before NSW Election07 – the election the Coalition couldn’t possibly lose – and you’ll find near identical comments.
And before QLD09, Tas10 and SA10. In fact, you’ll probably find those 3 archives easier to access than NSW07, though you should read 07.
The NSW Coalition may well win Election11; or it might, once again, snatch defeat from the very jaws of victory, despite having much (?most) MSM on its side. Indeed, despite the WA election, Australia has, since Howard’s victory in 04, tended to stop on the very brink of filling out the ballot forms and think “Hell no! But I’ll go Green/Indie 1 and preference Labor.”
And there’s no way Coalition performance on/after 21 Aug did anything to shake that view; as Newspoll 27-29 August (and yesterday’s Morgan, even minus its usual bias) have demonstrated.
In addition, NSW11 still has months of wondering how the fallout from the UK Murdoch-media phone-tapping, threats etc scandal unfolding in Westminster’s Parliament affects the credibility of Liberals major PR support base – Murdoch’s Australian empire – and the Liberal Party itself, and raises serious doubts about how far Oz can trust any political party seen to be beholden to NewsLtd.
So why not quit the spin & rhetoric and give us some analysis of Coalition appointments & policies vis à vis Labor’s, and what measures have been taken to stop branch-stacking (esp by the ratty right), destructive factional fights & the “dirt squad’s” activities.
Because all the above add up to the reason Liberals (in particular) keep losing in the Eastern states, and Nationals are losing ground to regional Independents.
Good morn everyone. Another glorious day in non-Lib country
need a coffee, or three!
I still recall earlier this year a Foxtel broadcast of a footy match, where the commentary was interrupted for a moment while the commentator had a rant about the mining tax. I’d never heard anything like that before – any political opinions at all really (beyond the odd shot of a PM in the crowd) – and it did seem completely out of place. I’m guessing it was a directive from on high, but who knows really?
OMG, you mean the independents might force Labor to gather more tax from the mining companies than it intends at present? That they might demand that Labor goes back to its original policy?
Yep, you can see the government splitting on that one.
Yeah, they certainly be sufferin’ in their jocks
No, the ABC needs to be restored as an impartial, honest and reliable media. People need to accept that commercial media don’t have an obligation to be impartial, only to make a profit for their shareowners. The great harm is where people are not able to get impartial, reliable information and this is where the ABC is increasingly falling down.
Will certainly play down well in QLD and WA.
Some never learn however…
You mean no care and no responsibility, just too bad if the private press can beaver away white anting the government and there is nothing you can do about it.
An elected Government can just be dragged down by a wealthy rabble of unelected traiters. Sounds like a brave new world not many Australians will want to be a part of to me.
g’morning bludgers. Gillard minority government caused the sky to fall yet?
OzPol @ 532.
That’s scary.
Morgan Pebbles, the revolution is almost in place now if we would just stop criticising the beautiful work being done by the press in support of there shareholders, talk one of the Labor Government into resigning in a huff and seize the moment to rush the GG’s office then the sky might just fall in.
There’s a solution for that… lots of dreams.
Truthy
the difference with the mining tax this time around is that, if it is put in place quickly, there will have been at least two years with it in operation.
This will mean that most mining communities will be able to see that the tax has resulted in real benefits to them on the ground, and the rest of the country will see improved services, continuing mining investment and no signs of the doom and gloom scenarios projected.
A mining tax implemented with enough time to bed it in should have little or no impact on the next election.
Hasn’t it always been like that?
Where is the legal requirement for a media company to be unbiased? If they’re biased and it makes them money then why would they change?
Sounds to me like all it would do is increase the vote against them in seats they don’t hold anyway. In the marginals, as they stand today, it’s going to be a raging success.
And it will also allow them to put the boot so far up the miners arses, they’ll think twice before they ever pull a stunt like that again.
Tory bias has been making them money? All I’ve ever seen from Limited News is falling circulation and a sea of Red where the profit and loss statement used to be.
Yep, Rupert is prepared to pay the price to wield his influence. But the point remains:
Where it the legal requirement for a media company to be unbiased?
TSOP @ 2335 (other thread)
It really is one of Julia’s iconic pictures …
I suppose I should change it, to avoid people getting confused …
Paul Hartcher correctly dismisses the opposition claims of illegitimacy for the government:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/coalition-lets-it-rip-but-the-spray-is-too-ferocious-20100910-154v1.html
Perhaps all journalists should read Possum Pollytics more often?
They’re reporting that the Gillard ministry will be announced today.
Some speculation that Wong may get Immigration rather than AG.
If Wilkie insists on widening the scope of the MRRT, the tax will be allowed to lapse. Labor are unlikely to forget the wholesale destruction of their vote they inspired with the disastrous RSPT. Wilkie seems to have locked on to the idea of “Super Profits”. These words are completely toxic in WA and QLD- states where Labor must rebuild its support.
He may well want a nastier tax. If he insists on it, he will kill the tax entirely, much to the relief of the Government.
zoomster @ 556
Yeah … the problem is that the longer it lingers without being implemented, the more noise the miners make & more it stays as an issue in the daily news cycle … Sort of like the GST which stayed a ‘headline’ issue only as long as it wasn’t actually implemented.
In retrospect, Julia should have immediately pushed the Mining Tax bill through the last parliament, once she had got agreement from the Big 3 & only then gone to the polls.
Vik, the Senate wouldn’t have passed it.
Except Hartcher fails to mention that it was Abbott himself that started the “illegitimacy” theme on election night
timdunlop twitter –
[Was hoping the new media paradigm might include a memory longer than 24 hrs. How’s stuff like this get past an editor? http://bit.ly/9LV9XK
The tax will never be allowed to lapse:
- The achievement of surplus by 2013 depends on its implementation
- It was the election issue on which the ALP fought the campaign
Yes, the tax is a vote-loser in WA & QLD but it’s a vote winner in VIC, NSW, SA & TAS.
There are no more seats which the ALP can lose in WA & QLD over the MRRT & quite a few seats it can gain in the Southern states once it is able to implement the MRRT & show that it has achieved something.
On balance, if Wilkie wants to raise the MRRT tax rate & enough other cross-benchers agree, then it is better to renege on the agreement with the Big 3, and implement the tax. Let the miners squeal as much as they want to … By 2013, no one will be interested & the MRRT will be a fact of life.
ltep @ 567
Why not? The Greens would have been OK , Xenophon would have been OK & I think Fielding could have been convinced to support it.
vik, the Mining Tax is a not-yet-healed wound. Labor would rather dump it than experience the upheaval a second time. You may think there are no more seats at risk, but you are completely wrong. There are three in WA and several more in QLD. I can’t think of anything more likely to harm Labor’s chances at the next election than an attempt to resurrect the RSPT.
From last Night’s Stateline in WA – note the comments re the Mining Tax:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/09/10/3008957.htm
Is fairfax settling down? Hartcher has a sensible piece, and Grattan straight piece on the front page- Rudd back on the front line.
And the cartoon on page 1- Oakeshott knocking back a ministry, saying I’ve consulted family, friends and enemies- behind him two newstands= News Ltd and News Ltd 2!!
Sorry. This answer is long, but I’ve tried to cover all implications. I hope others will correct, elaborate or add to my explanation. What we need like a hole in the head is a worse “foreign student” beat-up than we’ve had. Education is now one of our top (?3rd) “export industries” in terms of its contribution to Oz national income & BoT. We’re already losing income due to the GFC, high dollar & racist attacks. For purely economic reasons (never mind any ethical, legal “fairness” etc ones) we can’t afford to damage this “industry”.
1. The principle is citizenship, especially in an era of globalised employment. To support this, there are reciprocal rights treaties for government-paid services – education, health, pensions etc.
2. Another factor is the definition of “emigrating”. Do you mean “to move officially, as part of an emigration programme” or simply “return to” or “spend time in” another country?
3. BTW (a): “foreign students” (ie citizens of another country which does not have reciprocal arrangements with Australia), unless they have scholarships, are part of our “skilled immigrant” or refugee progs, are “full-fee paying self-supported students”. In 1997 (the last year I had contact with full fee-paying students) each uni student was worth at least $20,000 py to Oz economy.
4. BTW (b): Such students do not “take places away from Aussie students”, their places are “additional to” the number of places the ComGov funds; in fact, they may actually fund additional places for Oz students, usually by funding additional staff & resources. The same is (I’m pretty sure) true of those on refugee progs. Re the “skilled migrant prog”, I don’t know; other PRers will know.
The rationale for letting, even encouraging them to go overseas, then return, established before & esp after WW II (inc by Menzies gov) is well researched. As you don’t seem to have at least read about this, I’ll outline some.
4. Most of our top civil servants, members of internat orgs (UNO, World Bank etc, Internat courts) members of relief orgs & journos spend years abroad; so do many medical, research and academic professionals. Our top “techos” (eg civil, chemical & mining engineers, IT engineers & programmers) are considered in the world’s top rank. Many (inc members of OH & my families) have kids who’ll return to Oz, some for secondary more for post-school education.
5. We’ve a long history, especially since Colombo Plan era, of foreign students (secondary & tertiary) returning to homelands to fulfil scholarship agreements, then returning as migrants and re-enrolling for more study. In many cases, their children “went home”, or to other countries for uni study, then returned to enroll in Oz. For decades, their brilliance, diverse experience and love of Oz contributed beyond their numbers to out cultural & intellectual development.
6. Australia hosts backpackers from many countries who spend part or all of their “gap year” (either between school & uni, or undergrad and grad studies) here. Aussies travel abroad for theirs. Many extend their stay for extra years before going home to begin/ restart study. In the main, both situations enrich the countries of which they are citizens, and those in which they spend their time.
yes ABBOTT started the illegitmacy line- how can these people lie straight in bed?? And you dont you love his reasoning in the party room- they need to stop that line not because it is inappropriate or undermines confidence in our system, but because it may benefit them down the line!
very disappointed that O and W have not made more of economic responsibility in their decision. How much more was Abbott going to spend to win their votes? How about the black hole?
Fielding would never have supported it. He was always against it.
Geez, Frank. Now there’s a balanced trio. NOT.
OzPol Tragic@577
Dr Martin Drum was a former staffer for the Gallop and Carpenter Govt, and Jaye Radisich’s electorate Officer, plus was Secretaary of the Swan Hills ALP Branch
And I know him quite well
He’s one of us
OMG briefly and the bloody mining tax again. Shut up Twiggy
And journalists stupid, lazy or plain deceptive? There are NO CRACKS. The indies NEVER promised to support every government policy you idiots. They have guaranteed supply and confidence. Seriously, how hard is that to understand?
So Abbott’s is the first opposition to lose an election and claim the government is illegitimate? History-making.
So another day and more negative comments from the OO. Wilkie to block tax and Windsor experts a motely crew – debunking the experts Windsor relied on to judge his position on broadband. The ALP should have team internally working up a strategy to systematically deal with News Ltd. As highlighted in the Laura Tingle article yesterday News Ltd are a threat to our democracy. The attack from the ALP should be from a number of fronts: Economic via advertising in other sources, legisltation insisting on Aust ownership, verbal by debunking their lies and strategic by shutting out shanahan, franklin and the crew. It must be unrelenting and consistant. The OO will not stop in it’s persuit of the govt and the govt must meet them head on.
spectator, youre right but there is no indication that Labor is going to be any different towards News Ltd. I hope I am proven wrong but they have wimped it so far.
they cant just ignore them because news ltd has infected abc and fairfax
A number of 20 something former students of mine indicated via facebook, that they’d voted coalition because of the mental health money/policy, regardless of the evils in other policies (my words). Perhaps mental health is a real issue for younger voters with their broad social networks. Any thoughts on this?
Fine but soggy underfoot in Ararat.
yes vote for Abbott on health. idiots.
hope you explained that they would of had many more depressive worries
with may be NO HECS.. No pbs
and workchoices tells may be that they paid little attention to anything really
\this also worries me that some people vote just for themselves.
and what about the thing like the above dont they know with out labor they would have none of that
amamzing
Frank, have you got a copy of Rabbott’s election night speech you can pin up?
Having only just got online & not having read all the way through yet, this is going back a few pages, but:
After the election I emailed Barnaby Joyce through his special office email, objecting to his behaviour towards Swan during that election coverage, on the whole good manners & respect idea. Not heard a word back.
I understood, when he first stood, that Mike Kelly wasn’t very popular with the actual members of the Defence Force, who felt that he was playing up the soldier thing when he was a lawyer.
In the cool concerts competition, we saw Supergrass at the Bowery Ballroom…
I’m surprised that Emerson has been given Trade. I would’ve thought he would like to stick with a domestic economics portfolio. I imagine Emerson will just get completely frustrated in Trade.
Confirmed so far
Rudd-FA
Smith-Defence
Emerson-Trade
Rest later today
Why isn’t Emerson being considered for Finance?
confessions
Everyone is saying Bowen will get Finance.
So I suppose Crean will retain Eduaction. He is very good and steady hand.
After Queensland voting the way they did there would be no justification for Queensland to get Treasurer and Finance Minister.
I see. I wonder if he’s enough of a hard head for that portfolio? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
The media monopolies have to be dismantled entirely.
Smith gets finance
Wong for Finance?
Stephen will become Defense Minister
Smith is a *much* better choice for Finance.
Smith for finance? I thought it was Bowen
Excellent decision if this is the case.
How come ABC are reporting Smith for Defence? Someone is wrong here
Almost all of the ministers are expendable. The last term showed they all need to tighten up their media performance.
madcyril
603 agree, I think Smiths methodical ways will suit him for finance and he’s used to working closely with Swan.
Mark Riley says that Smith has finance so that would mean we still aren;t sure.
http://twitter.com/vote7news
Oh great, Wilkie wants a harsher mining tax.
Get ready for a decade or two if tory government after 2013 if that happens!
The big mining coys have signed off on a deal. Let it go lightweights, pass the thing and move on – or else?
Emerson is definitely Trade. Smith has competing rumors.
News Ltd is going with Defence for Smith.
We’ll see who is right.
Smith for Defence
Smith live on ABC24 now
News also says O’Connor might well get Immigration.
perhaps emerson likes trade after all they where ask for their wish list
This is an excellent article which also argues against paid political advertising.
Yep, Smith to Defence.
The “comedian” sure has his ear to the ground, doesn’t he.
BK, Riley strikes again!
Smith will be first WA Defence Minister since Beazley.
http://twitter.com/mfarnsworth
Riley got it wrong. Again.
madcyril
He is the lightest of lightweights. An unrisen souffle.
perhaps a polite email telling him thats all well and good but we just want some peace at the moment and some stability.
if you google wilkie campaign you should find it.
Brendan Oconnor would be good, there Mr. Evans was to quite.
Gillard to announce full ministry at 12.30.
Riley is on a very long losing streak. Someone in Labor must have fed him BS just to help destroy what is left of his cred. It’s quite funny really.
BK, no chance of a souffle rising twice in his case
Suckers are easy to pick, Diog.
News.com.au says Rudd will be Foreign Minister?
I can confirm that many young people are concerned about the state of mental health services.
brisoz, yes it is confirmed. Rudd is Foreign Minister
morning bludgers
BK
Riley un unrisen souffle!
Good one!!
Last 4 foreign affairs ministers; Evans, Downer, Smith , Rudd.
One of the above was certainly out of his depth in that lot
madcyril,
Interesting to see how this plays out.
Centre,
You talking about Downer ?
mexicanbeemer
I agree that mental health is a pressing issue for young people. My observations are there is a lot of anxiety amongst people today. There are obviously many factors causing this. One thing I believe would be very beneficial for young people is sport and exercise. It cannot be underestimated in my opinion.
Morning all and a glorious one it here next door to Oakeshott territory.
What a great way to start the day – the poor darling must be out of the information loop and has to make it all up!
No, what do you reckon
Of course
Diog, do i need to answer that especially for a saturday morning?
Who are these “young people” you talk about victoria?
mfarnsworth Smith asked what advice he would give the Department about dealing with Rudd… says “you can never have a crack of light between PM & FM. 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
BH
Being next door to Oakshott territory, are you able to get a feel of the attitude of the community on the ground?
slackboy72
What is the premise of your question. Can you elaborate?
oh dear, Slynews is trying its darn best to put a spin that Smithy is not happy with the “downgrade” from FM to Defense.
victoria – I think that’s right but it is quite expensive for some kids to play sport now. Is any of it subsidised now?
Labor will really have to look at mental health – it’s an enormous problem in my area for young people. There seems to be more peer group pressure than when I, or my kids, were young.
Great news that the tobacco lobby have been found out for providing money for the Alliance ads – now we can really get that sorted out with the new Parliament. I can’t see the Greens or Indies voting against outlawing this stuff.
The Finnigans
Up until a few days ago, Smith would have been unsure that he would have had a ministry if the govt was not returned. I think he would be happy with the opportunity of a ministry full stop. He knew that Rudd needed to be accommodated.
Good to see Mark Riley being sold a dummy. Labor should do that to all the Ltd News hacks as well.
BH
With regards to sport and exercise for young people. It doesn’t even have to be organised sport. I believe going for long walks, getting fresh air, clearing the mind. Think about all the noise of technology and peer pressure around young people. It sounds simplistic. A daily walk can do wonders for anyone’s mental health, but especially young people going through the normal anxieties of figuring out their lives.
Yes, Centre, it would be delightful to see the likes of Franklin and Shannahan looking like fools among their peers.
what was he told
Victoria, it is more than that Smithy has done a good job at FM but not outstanding.
Rudd is the ideal person with his personal interests and background. Gillard is very weak on FAs and has no stated vision, she needs to be properly guided and lets hope Rudd will provide that guidance to her. As long as the egos dont get in the way.
i think natural progression is from foreign affairs to defence.
Choosing between Rudd and Smith for foreign affairs is like choosing between Thurston or Scott Prince for half back. It’s all a team effort.
Labor’s side puts the Libs to shame. Compare them with the likes of Andrews, the two old Bishops, Robb and Hockey (a true featherweight).
We will never forgive Ltd News for the loss of Tanner in the war
very early in the piece months ago i heard that Mr. Smith said he welcomed more time at home with his young family he had not problem changing
my say,
I agree. First you talk to them. If they still don’t agree, you blow them up.
no g g he has all the right connections to save that happening.
my say, Mark Riley was told that Smith would be given finance. The idiot fell for it
Will get more of a feel in the next couple of weeks when I have a few meetings with people over the highway from me and in Lyne. Those I’ve spoken to on this side of the highway all like him and seem quite happy with the result, but so far I’ve avoided the old diehard National rednecks (and I really mean redneck ) who would be against him.
I have several friends in Pt Macq and have spoken with them. They were happy for him to do whatever he thought best for the electorate. They were always Nat/Lib voters while Vaille was there but have since voted for RO. They said they haven’t heard much grumbling from anyone they’ve spoken to so the media voxpops are finding the negatives I think.
While RO was in State Parliament he was always a standout in this area. I think it was because he stood up to the Nationals over the issue of his family.
Centre the ABC is tipping Sleepers EW in Race 3 horse 9 in Adelaide today.
BH
It will be interesting to get furthre feedback from you during the next few weeks.
Yes, I heard something about the issue of his family, but am unclear as to the exact circumstances. I believe it was racist in nature?
My say – I agree. Smith would be up for the new challenge and it is a good opportunity for Kev to continue our excellent international diplomacy in all affairs foreign.
Good growth opportunity for both of them. Once again, like Beazley, I would like Smith, but wifey likes him a bit too much, so I don’t like him!
The Finnigans
I agree that Rudd is the best man for the job. Of course, the media want to spin it whichever way it suits the narrative.
Radguy
How can you not like Smith? He is a gentleman.
Peter Harcher “Age’ talks to politcal elite commnetators about Labor’s legitimacy (he is correct) , but I been talking for days in lingo public understand & julia should follow me
Harcher:
‘It’s not what party people belong to but whether a government can win votes of confidence and other vital matters. It’s a very practical and operational test – who can hold the confidence of the House.
And on this test – the only test – the Gillard government has the numbers thanks to the three independents and one Green who have said publicly that they will support Labor on votes of confidence and supply.’
whereas i simply been saying…..Govt has always been formed in oz on which Party has th most ELECTED HoR MP’s supporting it …..KISS principal
Condi Rice was instantly attracted to Smith. Although hot on the heels of Downer, that wouldn’t of been hard to do
Steve, do you think it can win?
Vic – he has an awesome poker face and language skills. OH feels the same way as you. Maybe if his head was more like a busted sock, I could like him too!
Amigo Ronnie, we love
I imagine that Smith was given the choice of any cabinet portfolio other than treasury as a consolation prize for handing over Foreign Affairs to Rudd.
Vic,
I just found your comment …
…sounds like the sort of thing my dad would say. I genuinely find it amusing, like when someone calls for the re-introduction of national service. Now that would sort out all these damn emos.
victoria – yes, it was and at the time there was a bit of a revolt going here among a lot of us about Howard’s meme with asylum seekers, racism, etc. so there was a lot of empathy for RO – and rightly so.
Will post as I hear comments. My village was once in Lyne but the boundaries changed a few elections ago so we moved into Paterson. The village and surrounds are split on one side by the Pacific Highway – Paterson this side, Lyne the other so the population is about 60% this side and 40% the other.
Afternoon all …. what happened to all the boats ?
slackboy72
I am not underplaying serious mental health issues. I talk about generalised anxiety that is very common amongst people. Actually today is the anniversary of the death of a very good friend who suicided after a long battle with bi polar. Please don’t mistake what I am saying here.
Raguy
Never heard that description before
Funny!!
vic
Actually you are completely right. There is abundant evidence that exercise makes a big difference to anxiety and depression. All psychiatrists recommend it.
i am beginning to see a diferent approach with the media about time
BH
Thanks. Look forward to getting your perspective.
Diogenes
we are agreement for once! Must be something in the air. Ah yes, a Labor govt!!
they have disappeared into the CRACKS
best Finance minister wuld be Wayne Swan
One needs a behind scenes strong Docotr NO , and publicly come accross as such
In that , Chris Bowen to me is a worry , espec publicly
Smith clearly is next best (after Swan/Tanner) public for that role , he will say NO in private to labor MP’s wish list spending , but its not an easy area to get or to manage
radguy – bad luck, I’m joining your OH and Victoria. He’s a gentleman and gorgeous looking but it’s the ‘look but can’t touch’ thing that we like.
Wong in the Finance according to Slynews. take out the Abacus from her grandfather.
Wong is Chinese, never get between a bucket of money and the Chinese
Wong for Finance just reported by Sky … I like Bowen personally but it’s a reward for Penny who worked hard under difficult circumstances over the last 3 years.
Stephen Smith will be an excellent Defense Minister. He has everything that is required: a capacity for hard work and paying attention to detail; he has a clear understanding of all the policy issues that come within the orbit of Defense, including intelligence, security and international relations; he is calm, purposeful and serious about the responsibilities and has the temperament to direct this huge Department.
There is no doubt it is a very big administrative, financial, political and policy challenge, but if there is anyone in the Government that can handle this, it is Stephen.
I reckon he enjoyed Foreign Affairs, but he is also a political realist. He knows that Rudd has been assured of a prominent role in the Government. That is just the practical reality of the situation. To resist Rudd would be to re-open the wounds of the last few months. There is no point in that: far better to apply a salve and get on with things.
Rudd could make a good FM. This is his chance for political redemption. He was a failure as PM but could yet come good in this role. It will be highly beneficial for the Government if it works. Labor has to make up ground in Queensland and WA and these moves will help begin that process.
Jules’ Presser at 12:20 on the Wardrobe.
gosh she has good taste, it nice to have things in common, foster it.
my god has she the list in her handband and what colour is it
my goodness me lol??
briefly, you wouldn’t being saying that if the shonks didn’t get in and there were no house fires and deaths with the insulation, and he was properly advised with the mining tax?
Hell, it was the first time any government has responded to a GFC. Who here has ever gotten something perfect the first time you ever attempted something?
My say, she has decided on this one:
http://www.sherburnehall.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/louis-vuitton.jpg
Wong for Finance according to Speers. Has he been sold a dummy by Labor?
The Finnigans
All Julia needs now is a Bob Katter Hat special!
Stephen Smith will pick up a lot of points in the party for this. In accepting a move to Defense with such obvious good grace he is contributing to party unity and the rebuilding that has to occur. You would have to say that Gillard, Swan and Smith now comprise the core leadership group in the Government. So Smith may have given up FA, but he has certainly done his standing no harm at all.
And Rudd gets a break. This will be welcomed by a great many voters.
Vic, you mean this one?
http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/uploads/bkatt.jpg
Stephen Smith says WA members met in Canberra last week. With the lazy, disinterested Queensland journalists we will probably never know what happens with the Queensland members.
The Finnigans
Actually I was thinking of the hat Bob was wearing on qanda last week. I reckon that goes perfectly with the bag as chosen!!
if it doesn’t match her shoes, mysay, then I take my vote back!
Wot! No more hot predictions from the “comedian” Riley?
Centre, Rudd had all the power he ever wanted and, in the end, could not do the job. He wilted in both administrative and political terms. Sure, Labor’s enemies got at him too. But that goes with the territory. He fouled things up. I think the Ministry and the Caucus should have checked him, and they also failed to fulfill their responsibilities. But Rudd can blame no-one but himself for the circumstances that brought about his downfall.
He is lucky. He is going to get another chance to demonstrate he can make a contribution to the country and to the Government. Very few politicians see their incompetence and possible disloyalty rewarded by appointment as Foreign Minister. Alexander Downer is one example. I hope Rudd turns out to be a whole lot better than Downer ever was.
BH, this is her shoes to kick arses and dickheads:
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/50000018/Images/2/285/HARL063010_073657.main.jpg
Briefly
“Rudd could make a good FM. This is his chance for political redemption. He WAS a failure as PM but could yet come good in this role”
That is nonsense
And I say that as one who was satisfied Julia needed to take over in June , BASED on th expert politcal judgement of 115 elected Labor MP’s , incl published independant marginal public polls showing labor in dire problams
Kevin “lead” us to victory over rodents , kevin ‘led’ us thru GFC (no othr country so succeeded) , Kevin “lead’ labor on NBN , and historic wonderful PPL educatin and hospital TRUE CORE LEFT” reforms Kevin simply made a reel bad blue on CC defferral leaving a terrible vaccuum and created a RSPT mexican stand off….but on evidense I just listed , Kevin is a Labor hero leeder , dont forget it
Might be time to bury the hatchet briefly.
Gillard on Insiders with Cassidy tomorrow.
By putting in Rudd in Foreign Affairs, you are kind of defusing a problem, the man who leaks will not be in this country as much to do as much leaking.
briefly, you obviously have your reasons for your dislike of Rudd.
Rudd achieved many good things in his time as PM. I will never accept that he was solely responsible for his downfall.
Rudd defeated John Howard. Nobody else in the party could have. Compare Rudd’s campaign in 07 with Julia’s in 10. What a joke?
Rudd is a Labor legend along with Hawke and Keating.
Finns – perfect and just the thing to keep under the desk if any of her colleagues try to act like the DH Coalition instead of knuckling down to unity.
CENTRE – And, of course, what are the labor implementation priorities right now (NBN, Mining Tax, Health Reform) – all initiatives that Rudd started. We are yet to see anything that is really post-Rudd.
OK Julia: what are the next set of big ideas???
Ron, I did not read your excellent post at 698 before I wrote 702.
Perhaps it is best not to rehash this argument. Suffice it to say I stand by my earlier description: Rudd failed as PM. He raised everyone’s hopes and expectations, and then failed in many ways to satisfy them. This is a terrible pity for him and for the country, but it happened. It is too late to undo any of this. He is just fortunate – as indeed is the Labor Party in General – to get a second chance. This is very rare in Federal politics.
Tony Burke has been moved but sky channel not sure where, Jason Clare missed out.
steve
have sky said anymore about official annoucements by the PM?
Was Rudd really the ‘leaker’ ? The other Mark said so but there has been ample speculation that Tanner + someone from other side may have been responsible.
rosa, having said that about Rudd, I do believe the Party did the right thing by changing leaders.
It would have been a tragedy if Rudd lost to Abbott in his first term.
When history is written it will always show that Kevin Rudd deposed John Howard. Nothing was more important than that at the time.
Roxon is still Health Minister
That’s bad news for Dutton.
CENTRE – Have to disagree with you on that. But everybody knows the arguments.
BH – I actually think Howard was ripe for the picking. To paraphrase Cromwell, the Libs were stubble to the labor sword.
I am actually hoping that Rudd’s greatest historic legacy will be an NBN that destroys Murdoch’s influence in this country and massively enhance our democracy. I’m probably missing something – but I hope not.
Roxon does a good job for the next three years and she might be the successor to Julia.
Gillard to be on ABC 24 shortly followed by Rudd presser 2:00pm
Rudd v JBishop
BH @712
Quite right. He is and will remain a Labor hero.
No contest!
Jim Turnour v JBishop
No contest!
Cruel, very cruel. it’s not fair
Still bagging him, hey, Briefly? Y-a-a-a-w-n.
Regarding my “Said Shanahan” pice earlier, Cud Chewer, thanks for asking and I’m very happy for you to link it. My say, thanks glad to hear it
Ron, I would never intentionally link a well intentioned bludger (except truthy) to Denis Shanahan’s statements! If only we’d all been ‘Ronned, things would be OK, and President Clinton would have ended the US recession by now
briefly
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 12:55 pm | Permalink
698
Ron
‘ Kevin “lead” us to victory over rodents , kevin ‘led’ us thru GFC (no othr country so succeeded) , Kevin “lead’ labor on NBN , and historic wonderful PPL educatin and hospital TRUE CORE LEFT” reforms Kevin simply made a reel bad blue on CC defferral leaving a terrible vaccuum and created a RSPT mexican stand off….but on evidense I just listed , Kevin is a Labor hero leeder , dont forget it ‘
“Perhaps it is best not to rehash this argument. Suffice it to say I stand by my earlier description: Rudd failed as PM.”
Briefly you is one extreme spectrum anti Kevin in black & white summary , and Rose is othr extreme spectrum belieibing in conspirarcys & ill judged poll analysis
you left out my quote i suported th Julia change based SOLELY 9and correctly) on 115 elected Labor MP’s politcal judgement for labor to survive , but i DO recognise Kevin for what he achoeved as a success Labor PM per my list above Therefore I honor him
what uou forgets , is for exact same reason anothr sitting Labor PM hero in Hawkie also got rolled for PJK for SAME reasons , politcal polls , thats th gaem , hold Govtso one can implament left reforms , and not let consrvative with th levers of power
labor peoples STILL revere Hawkie despite gettin rolled , riteon Kevin deserving Labor leeeder hero
soc, he did
He also dealt brilliantly with the GFC, along with Gillard, Swan and Tanner, and that will be recognised even internationally. If Australia’s economy had tracked America’s as it usually does, another 300,000 people would have lost their jobs, and many their homes.
rosa, if Labor can return the budget to surplus, meet its funding commitments on infrastructure, NBN, education and health, develop a legislation for carbon abatement and rebuild its political fortunes in WA and QLD, then it will have achieved a great deal.
The MRRT may prove problematic, depending on the likes of Wilkie and Windsor, but I suppose there has to be some chance the tax will be passed.
I would like to see the Government take up the cause of media reform, as outlined in an earlier post:
As things now stand in the media world, the Commonwealth Parliament will soon be no more than a balance sheet entry in the accounts of New Corp. This has to be prevented.
Finns
I should have said President Hillary Clinton. The one they needed but did not choose
What ron said – Yeah!
Wong v Robb.
I hope she continues to get stuck into him, HOckey and Abbott over their costings deceit.
Uhlman singing Penny Wong’s praise on ABC24.
Combet: Climate
Emerson: Trade
is there an awakening
the only thing re wong, is that she cannot be at question time.
time to put this behind us i think
This is ridiculous. She’s nearly an hour late.
I sincerely hope so,my say.
in the last few weeks I have been getting an email
” you have be subscribed to alp news letter”
with no attachment, any one else get that may be just now
[]confessions
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
This is ridiculous. She’s nearly an hour late.]
may be the new way in handling the press
I hope my say is right, but I wonder if there is just going to be some “strategic repositioning” by some ABC journos now they know the current board’s days are numbered. If so that is only all the more reason for them to be reassigned to covering the agricultural news. It means they knew what they were doing and just did it to advance their careers. I don’t think Howard era-public servant style careerist-sycophants are any more what we want from the ABC than blatant right wing bias.
I just want a competent, independent broadcaster from my tax dollars. Why can’t we get what Ian Williams is to Science, or Stephen Long is to economics, in politics and current affairs?
Someone might have spat the dummy. A few commentators have said exactly what William said last night about Gillard having to be very careful to avoid demoting someone who cou.ld do something stupid.
Smith is a class act and would always accept what is a demotion with good grace as there was a good reason for it. Some of the others might not be as understanding
she needs this:
http://www.diamondzdirect.co.nz/uploads/73829/images/116811/rolex.jpg
This article is interesting. It says the chances of a member of the HoR dying in office thereby causing a byelection is 75%, based on the average age of members:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/opposition-harbours-a-secret-death-wish-20100910-154yc.html
On this basis, there is a 16.6% chance of the member dying in one of the 20 most marginal Labor seats, or in one of the independents/Green seats.
(25/150 X 75%)
If the chances of such a seat changing hands in a by-election are 60/40 – allowing for the usual protest vote – then the likelihood of a death of a member changing the balance in the House in this term is almost exactly 10% (9.96).
So, there is 90% chance that the minority government will not be brought down by a change in the balance due to the death of a member.
So the only real worries for the government are: an indie/Bandt withdrawing support; and a defection to the cross-benches from its own side.
Evans: IR
Crean: Regional Development
Simon Crean for Regional Development
Giilard on now in Melbourne
Signing off for the afternoon. Big Adelaide Hills footy finals with my local team being in A grade and B grade.
Let’s hope they cap off a good week.
Garrett schools and early childhood -is that a junor portfolio to education
Garrett in Schools, Early Childhood and Youth
Chris Bowen into Immigration
Bowen to immigration.
Conroy stays in Communications
Conroy stays in communications
Ron, you can praise Kev as much as you like. On the west coast of this wide land, he is considered quite differently: he is thought of as someone who got into trouble promising things he could not deliver, and then, in an attempt to rebuild his fortunes, proposed a politically expedient tax that would have harmed the WA economy and potentially cost every Labor seat in the State.
This is not personal on my part. These are the straight-forward facts.
For what it is worth, Labor supporters should take note: unless the Labor vote can be rebuilt in WA and QLD, the next PM will be a Liberal. If an election were held now on the new Victorian boundaries, and even if no votes were to move compared with the August election, Labor would lose one seat in Victoria (McEwen) and therefore would lose office.
Though Labor have held onto office, they failed to win the election. If they do not pick up seats in either WA or QLD or both at the next election, the chances are very high that they will lose both the election and their hold on office. It is all very well for Labor supporters from SE Australia to dismiss the concerns of the northern and western States. But to do so is absolute folly.
I appreciate everyone transcribing the presser; unfortunately I can’t get ABC24 or any other streaming stateside.
Not exactly the power and the passion.
Arbib gets Inidiginous Employment and Social Housing and Sport
Ellis takes over Arbib’s employment participation role.
What about Shorten?
Bill Shorten gets Assitant Treasuer and Superannuation
Jason Clare gets Defence procurement
Justine Elliot moves to Parliamentary Secretary for Trade
Rudd (Foreign Affairs), Wong (Finance), Smith (Defence), Crean (Regional Development), Evans (Workplace Relations), Combet (Climate Change), Bowen (Immigration), Shorten (Assistant Treasurer), Garrett (Schools, Early Childhood and Youth), Emerson (Trade), Burke (Sustainable Australia), Conroy (Communications), Pilbersek (Human Services/Social Inclusion), Oconnor (Justice), Arbib (Indigenous development, Housing, Sport), K Ellis (Employment Particpation), Sowden (Vet affairs, Defence personnel), Gray (SMOS)
I’m sure Garrett will already be calling for a meeting with Bandt and Oakshott to work out a strategy to claw back the outrageous rip-off of public school money to elitists who don’t want their precious babies exposed to the real world. *irony alert*
Who got education?
Justine Eliot requested to be demoted, apparently.
Whose da A-G?
Yes who is in Education?
McLelland is A-G
I think Garrett gets Education?
Theocrat Conroy stet; hollow Arbib stays a minister, mongrel Shorten moves up. Not looking promising for the required radical change of direction …
Gray (SMOS)…..The Minister for trying to make sure the WWOG vote does not come unstuck?
Looking forward to seeing the full, official list.
jv Shorten is a good minister he did more for disability than had did in long 11 years
than HOWARD did in 11 years
At least Shorten isn’t in Cabinet (I assume). That makes it a bit difficult for him, doesn’t it, to claim the mantle at the next change.
may be JUlia is still re education and Garrett in the mentioned areas.
No, Shorten isn’t in Cabinet.
Shorten’s Assistant Treasurer which isn’t a Cabinet position.
JAUNDICED – Thank you for your actuarial analysis. I accept your assurance that your arithmetic is accurate.
Excellent end to the presser:
“What advice would give Brad Johnson (retiring captain of Western Bulldogs)?”
“I’d tell him that a win by one point is still a win.”
Dreyfus = A-G????
my say
Don’t get me started on Shorten – I know people extol his work in disability, but believe me disability is a mere temporary tool for the advancement of Shorten. If you knew what I know about his history with the printers’ union and Richard Pratt, which I unfortunately cannot spell out here, you would change your mind.
No, McClelland is still A-G.
i suppose the big things in education have been done re the web site.
and the BER,
Now its funding etc. Who is responsible for HECS uni, education.
j v, I have it on very reliable information that Shorten’s role in the demise of KR has been, as in so many things that reflect on his supposed clout, vastly over-stated.
It is unusual of you direct so much venom towards Shorten. He is the first Minister in about 40 years to put disability issues firmly on the public policy agenda. As far as social justice issues are concerned, disability services and incomes have to be among the most neglected. Shorten has done quite well to lift the profile here imho.
Not sure it’s a good idea to give the minister responsible for the insulation scheme the portfolio responsible for the BER.
What about environment?
I know a couple of people who would concur with you, j v. The view seems to be that the term “careerist” was invented so it could be applied to Shorten.
Tony Burke is Minister for Environment
Andrew, Tony Burke.
enviroment i suppose it Mr. Combet
Evans got higher education, so i guess that means Garret is effectively education minister
Garrett is a good advocate and an intelligent, quick-thinking, creative person. He was given a dud program to implement using a Department – Environment – that has almost no experience in program implementation.
I hope he can do a better job in Education, where there are a lot of complex policy issues and political pitfalls to negotiate. As well, he is from NSW where Labor need to shore up their standing. We will see. When he is being his natural, passionate, engaged and lively self, he is very impressive.
rosa@778
No worries – I think it’s accurate. I have taken the 75% chance of a death in the next parliament from the Professor, but I have made two assumptions:
1. There are around 20 marginal Labor seats, plus 5 marginal indies/Green seats = 25
2. There would be an average 60/40 chance in favour of marginal seat falling in a by-election
If you quibble with those two assumptions, just apply your own adjustment with the formula.
a/150 x 75/100 x b/100
where a = number of marginal seats, including the 5 indies/Green
and where b = the chance of such a seat changing hands in a by-election scenario.
I’m sure Possum will chuckle if he sees my crude maths.
THEY WAY THE ABOVE HAS BEEN PUT TOGETHER LOOKS AS THOUGH I SAID THAT
well i did nt.
From Karen Middleton
http://twitter.com/karenmmiddleton
i think the young people will relate to him also
and if you didnt do this would they become disgruntaled
best to have them on side i would think
did some on say Kevin is giveing a press.conf
Here is the list from Bernard Keane
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/09/11/gillard-announces-ministry/
Don’t worry my say, everyone knows you wouldn’t say that. In the words of that great composite politician Francis Urquart,
“You may well say that, but I cannot possibly comment.”
Now we can see why Gillard didn’t draw attention to the parliamentary secretaries
JAUNDICED – However, you have not factored in the possibility of a coalition member (many of who would be too old to serve on the central committee of the Chinese Communist Party) dying in office and labor winning the seat. That improves the odds slightly as well, I suppose.
Conroy gets an extra responsibility I think
Stephen Conroy Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Digital Productivity
Julia Gillard will keep a close eye on education.
Mark Arbib has got one hell of a title
Mark Arbib Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Development Minister for Sport Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness
briefly
I concur – an ambitious and blatant opportunist is ever there was one.
I am tempted to declare this to be “An Excellent Idea” on the basis that there needs to be a much much better interface between the Caucus and the Ministry, and because fortune should favour the brave….but doubtless many others will not see it this way.
may be i went half way there, as i said, better to have them on side than
disgruntled, the press would alwasy be asking them why are you not in the ministry,
etc
Thought I’d get on here to see the bitching going on over Shorten, Arbib etc. You didn’t disappoint.
rosa -yes, true, but I don’t think that would change the chances much, given the usual protest vote in by-elections.
I expect the first two Libs to go might be Ruddock, who one hot windy day will spontaneously turn to dust and turn into a small willy willy; and Bronnie, whose increasingly brittle neck will snap under the weight of her hair when she turns her head too quickly in fear of a tap on the shoulder to retire in favour of a person under 60.
mfarnsworth Appalling reactionary Jacinta Collins is made a parliamentary secretary for Education, Employment and Workplace Relations. 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
, each person on their merits i say, if its a throw back to June its time to move on please.
JAUNDICED – Ho, ho – Wonder if it will be possible to cremate the hair. I suspect not. It might have to be buried separately.
may be julia has more of an idea who is suited to what.
i dont take notice of journalists at all, i think she is the best judge, after all she works with these people every day who are we to say from this far away .
may be julia has more of an idea who is suited to what.
i dont take notice of journalists at all, i think she is the best judge, after all she works with these people every day who are we to say from this far away .
I tend to think personal ambition and political aspiration are two sides of the one coin. And we continually elect candidates in part because they have proven they are tough enough to throw everything they have into winning elections. Think of Costello – in the end, rejected because he was not keen enough, not ruthless or bold enough. Same goes for Peacock and Nelson, Crean…even Beazley. Unpleasant as it might be, the public elect the ambitious and determined for a very good reason: we do not want any wimps trying to run the country.
Middleton and the rest of them will make that the lead for the news tonight and tomorrow’s conversation pieces.
BTW – will Joe Ludwig be any good in his job. I think Tony Burke was brilliant as Minister for AFF – he was quite a hit with the farmers by the sound of the Country Hour programs.
Gary@810
It’s not only Arbib, Shorten and Conroy appointments that are bad signs for the future well-being of the party, but even more insidious is the promotion of Feeney and Farrell. Gillard obviously owes that whole vacuous team of nincompoops.
I think Dreyfus is terrific. Presents very well on Skye Agenda and doesn’t take any nonsense from the Coalition bloke on with him.
as i thought that abc 24 is just repeat repeat
Farrell is a talent free zone, but all parties seem to ‘reward’ duds. For instance Ron Boswell was a parliamentary secretary under Howard and Wilson Tuckey was a minister. Unfortunately it’s just how party politics works.
JAUNDICED – But surely Shorten expected to get into Cabinet this time. Isn’t this a sign that his plot went sadly awry.
So Combet is the only new member of Cabinet (not really including Rudd) ?
is there a rule that the Communications minister always has to be a
f-wit? Alston, Coonan, Conroy… can’t we have someone with a clue?
Peter/825,
No, it’s part of the job requirement.
Diogenes, also Emerson.
Peter, next comms minister will be Don Farrell
Where is higher education? Surely not under skills? Maybe Innovation Dep?
jv – you may know something about Shorten and Pratt but you could also be told a few things about some members of the Coalition and Pratt which would make your hair curl too.
Shorten did a terrific job in Disabilities where nobody had for years. Arbib is responsible for getting a few kids I know jobs where none existed during the Howard years.
I’m prepared to give them a go. Farrell and Feeney I’m not so sure about but perhaps the PM is keeping them busy and where she can keep an eye on them. I would be too. The media and Abbott will scream but the blokes responsible for getting Abbott the leadership were rewarded too.
PJN
I’ve never understood why they insist on putting people in portfolios they know nothing about. It’s seen as a disadvantage to to be a minister in your area of expertise, except for AG for some strange reason.
Vincent, it’s part of Chris Evans’ portfolio.
These Ministries will get Arbib out into the community, across the whole country. It is a very interesting mix. The Senator for changing PM’s will get to apply himself to some very tough social policy areas. Maybe he can redeem his reputation at the coalface.
Don Farrell, for all his social conservatism and DLP heritage, is actually a thoughtful guy whose word is his bond.
So if the plotters are the winners, who are the losers?
You have to laugh. Online poll already started.
Not sure if unis are going to like being grouped under skills. Still suspect parts of higher ed might move to industry & science…
sorry innovation and science
Ursula Stephens has also been dropped as parl sec, as was Bryne. I’d also call Nick Sherry’s move a demotion.
Or just really hoping?
Laurie Ferguson also dropped as parl sec.
Looks like most of the room was created by people stepping down with no prominent losers.
Richard “World’s Greatest Luddite” Alston was a shocker – you wouldna thunk it coulda got worse, but then came Helen “Completely Effin Clueless” Coonan, and now Stephen “You are all kiddie fiddlers” Conroy.
What have we done to deserve these eedjits?
Looks like Abbott’s PPL is dead.
Doigenes (Re: necrotizing fasciitis)
I believe you, but it’s the first I’ve heard of ‘virus’ as layman’s terminology for bacteria, since even the most medically ignorant of us have probably heard of bacteria.
As I said to Mod Lib last night.
Monday’s Oz story
Pirate queen who stole government rearranges deckchairs on Titanic
Ignoring the giant cracks in the hull of her crippled hulk the pirate leader Captain Redhead has reshuffled the deckchairs on her sinking ship.
In a move reminiscent of Fletcher Christian appointing Captain Bligh first mate, the barren unelected leader of Australia’s illegitimate “government” has made the assassinated, dead, buried and cremated Kevin Rudd Foreign Minister.
Having hung, drawn and quartered Mr Rudd, one of Australia’s most respected ever Prime Ministers and someone who is very kind to elderly ladies and puppies, before dancing on his smouldering corpse and spitting on it, this is a bizarre move by Australia’s alleged leader.
“I have heard him speak in tongues,” said one highly placed waiter who once worked at a Labor sausage sizzle. “He once did it when I was close to him. He was speaking to people who looked Chinese. He could easily be a spy as nobody can understand what he is telling these people. They looked very similar to foreigners I have seen on TV arriving on boats who then get vast amounts of government handouts and are then given luxury mansions to live in rent free.”
Australia’s completely unelected supposed leader, who at 3.54am on September 2 was losing on every measure that The Australian thinks is important, but still somehow ended up being supported by two men of very dubious character, also named someone called Wong as Finance Minister.
Highly respected and in no way rabid right wing rabble rouser Glenn Beck lite wannabee Andrew Bolt might have said Australian people had every right to be concerned.
“We have a man who has been assassinated, garrotted, stabbed and ritually disembowelled and yet returned to life, who speaks in Chinese to Chinese people, a Finance Minister called Wong and hundreds, if not thousands of boats, which nobody but Sir Tony Abbott, PM in waiting, can stop, on their way. We’re doomed.”
Mr Wyatt Roy said: “Where is China?”
Related stories
God set to smote Australia with meteorite warns Archbishop after atheist PM installed by gay lobby
Oakeshott went out with redhead in school – Psychologist says this may have rendered him biased against Tony Abbott
Greens want heroin made compulsory – unfounded rumour denied but that doesn’t stop us
Coalition cabinet packed with youthful genius says John Howard
Windsor worry: Bald men inherently untrustworthy says News Limited rent a quote academic
Because they refuse to work in with the public Service and end up getting themselves into trouble. Doctors and Health tend to be prime examples.
Sorry, ‘Diogenes’.
Goshome: Hilarious. Permission to repost, Sir?
Hopefully, Kev will have his lines well rehearsed:
“There is one team, one PM, one Ministry, one unified Party and one common goal. Each one of us wish to serve this great country to the best of our ability. There is the past and there is the future and here on the Labor side, we are about the future. I am about the future. We are about building a better future for this country, a fairer, stronger, more prosperous and secure future. And we will do this together – united by the knowledge that the fortunes of the people of Australia are far more important than anything else. There is one team and I am proud to be a part of it……”
I do wish Kev would go for more of this kind of polemic…….sigh….
I wonder if, when Ruddie sits down tonight and opens a bottle of red, he won’t feel too bad at all. After all:
He never lost an election;
He’ll get to do what he loves;
the PM isn’t terribly interested in his portfolio and won’t want a stoush;
He won’t have to pander to the precious fools in caucus;
triton
For some reason, the media usually refer to necrotising fasciitis as “the flesh-eating virus”.
I had a few patients the media made an issue of and tried telling them it wasn’t a virus. They said correcting the terminology would confuse the public.
Go Stephen Conroy – the bloke who has made Telstra blink where no Howard Govt. pollie could. The bloke who has carried through Kev’s idea of an NBN and got Labor over the line.
Get over the filter and stop the whinging, PeterJN – we have. It’s dead in this Parliament unless George Pell tells Abbott to vote for it.
Minister for portal protection
So will schools under Garrett be its own department?
What did Smith get?
@Peter849
I would be flattered
BH: Good points re NBN etc.
Personally, the filter is serious business for me. I am vocal supporter of the need for an NBN, here and elsewhere, but the filter is positively dangerous.
I hope you are correct, and it is dead. Conroy’s attempt to paint opponents of the filter as supporters of CP was one of the reprehensible moments in political debates in this country.
steve
That makes it pretty easy for the PS to lead the minister by the nose.
Mike Kelly was the one I was thinking of in particular. Smith takes over Defence which is notoriously dismissive of the minister and I would have thought Kelly would have been a much better Defence Parl Sec than lumbering Smith with Feeney, who will presumably try to get us to bomb Iran is he’s anything like Psephos.
A bit like the lazy, inaccurate media calling the collective of the Liberal and National Parties, the Coalition, when they are not in coalition at present
You wouldn’t expect Joe Ludwig to be the farmers’ pin-up. Someone like Kate Ellis might have amused them, at least.
Richard Marles has got an interesting job. Parliamentary Secretary for reporting on Kevin Rudd. He’s going to have a hell of a job. Perhaps Rudd can send him one way while he goes in another.
Farrell is hardly a “dud”, he is union lawyer turned highly successful state and national union leader with qualifications from Harvard and a tonne of parliamentary committee work. He and Butler are responsible for 10 very effective and stable years in the SA Labor Party.
James, I suppose it’s hard to judge when he can induce coma just by opening his mouth.
Thanks, Diogenes.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/gillard-ministry-at-a-glance-20100911-155qf.html
Is this the longest patronage (I mean, ministerial) list in our political history. Why don’t they just do a list of who’s on the backbench
No Parl Sec for pacific island affairs?
Curious omission.
Dio – family members have had personal experience inside Health – very high up. I’d love to tell you what I’ve heard about 2 females in there but I can’t.
\
These 2 birds need to be shot out the door fast but they are too smart and protect their own backs very well.
Itep: I guess we’ll wait and see how he performs. Gov Whip goes to the Left btw, so Farrell was never going to get it. But I’m sure you knew that?
Maybe Feeney is just the person to sniff out all the waste and secrecy that goes on in Defence. Smith will be the gentleman and deal with the top brass while Feeney can go the ‘bogan’ everywhere else. Might just be a good appointment or …
on the other hand, Defence has a way of terminating careers before they get started!!
Rosa was there someone inadvertently left sitting on the backbench?
Or for international development?
Looks like Kerr and McMullan’s Parl Sec positions no longer exist.
thats a bit of a shame, IMO.
Ahh yes… but does looking Gillies in the eye part of the contract?
BH
I’ve read Dark Victory. I can guess one of them. When Roxon kept her on it said a lot about what to expect from Health.
Typical. Never has a good word to say about Labor.
Sorry, but somehow I can’t picture Mark Arbib at the AFL or ARL grand finals looking remotely comfortable. Is this some strange attempt to humanise the bugger.
I can just imagine Penny in her flat voice saying “no” to Ministers and, when they complain, give them a little sigh and say “no” again.
Who is Anthony Byrne?
I, too, am wondering where Higher Ed and International Ed are going.
Surprised Mike Kelly missed out on an outer ministry gig.
A serious question, but will todays book burning be televised?
I can imagine fox news or a similar channel would probably be doing live feeds.
Okay, well, the reason I know a little about it is that I spent three weeks in hospital with it. But I’m afraid I was of no assistance to the plastic surgery profession since it was internal.
I bet she does a great “Computer says ‘No’ “.
Shineybum, Education seems to be a mixture going to Garrett, Evans and Carr.
http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/prime-minister-announces-new-ministry/
What a sad story that is. I cried most of the way through the darn book so it took ages to finish and can barely look at Howard and Downer when I see them on telly.
There’s one worse in there tho. Gets rid of all the good, more competent people than her. Someone needs to be game enough to tell the story soon, I hope.
From Patricia Karvelas on Twitter
BH
I bought Dark Victory well before the 2007 election but couldn’t bring myself to read it until Howie/Downer etc were out of power. It made it a much more enjoyable read.
So Patricia Karvelas and her nasty OO will just have to put up with the quietly spoken Chris Evans when she raves on about the 2.7% BER school ‘disaster’.
triton
You might find this interesting.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article578596.ece
Overall, I think a strong selection by the PM. The two big positives I think are Peter G. in schools etc. and Penny Wong in finance.
Peter took a hit for the team and was hounded and almost destroyed for circumstances pretty much beyond his control. He will now be supported by a much stronger department tuned to delivering a big policy agenda. Julia showing her support for Peter will go over well in Caucus. He will be a good minister.
Penny is well suited for Finance. A person with a dry methodical approach I think she will do well in a dry portfolio.
BH, from what I can gather Chris Evans is in charge of the Stimulus. So yes, he will be point man on the BER
Wouldn’t Labor be a bit concerned about the ability of Swan-Wong to sell the economic message, esp as Swan-Tanner couldn’t do it?
Federal Member for Holt ,, Anthony Byrne
madcyril – Evans is so laid back and polite that the media are going to have trouble portraying him as anything but conscientious.
I’m have enormous respect for Penny Wong. She led the charge in the media in 07 and every time she was asked aggressive questions she answered quietly and put the journo off track. She is extremely capable and I think the lessons learned from the nonsale of the ETS will stand her in good stead.
Simon Crean’s portfolio will certainly put him in the spotlight from now on.
So will the Shadow Ministry of the Rabbott actually shadow these Ministers or will he adopt the Queensland Opposition’s approach and have:
A Shadow minister for turning around boats
Shadow Minister for waste
Shadow Minister for Creating Black Holes etc.
Everybody on the team gets to be Parl Sec for something.
if you had of seen him on 24/7 yesterday you would proably say thats a great thing..
So they can’t learn from their mistakes and change how they operate? I give them more credit than that. Swan has clearly improved over 2 and a half years.
anyone going to hazard a guess as to what shadow portfolio Turnbull will get?
Why don’t we have a Minister for Queensland?
well be michelle because he is a very good at his job
my say
I am very pleased that Crean got the Regional Portfolio. This is going to be followed with great interest by one and all.
victoria, I think it will be Communications, with a brief to attack the NBN for all its worth.
Overall, a good choice of ministry by Jules, especially putting Rudd in Foreign Affairs & Penny Wong in Finance.
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 3:26 pm | Permalink
michellegrattan | 43 seconds ago
And what did Chris Bowen do to miss finance and be landed with immigration? For that matter what did penny do to GET finance?
well MAY be michelle because he is a very good at his job
So, Garrett’s got Schools, Evans gets Vocational Education, and Carr gets Higher Ed (including the Humanities and Social Sciences) in Innovation?
madcyril
Yes, you are right about that too. Obviously, the coalition won’t to attack it at every turn. I hope Labor are fully prepared. Conroy knows this topic inside out.
Environment ?
Rudd’s going to love foreign affairs… fuel up the Kevin 747 boys, i’m off to China… and then Europe… and France…
We may never see him in parliament.
Turnbull will be one unhappy chappie, with three frustrating years ahead of him while Abbott is entrenched a heartbeat from the prime ministership.
madcyril
oops – won’t = want
Toorak Toff
Actually I think the Rabbott better give Turnbull whatever portfolio he wants. Otherwise I see instability ahead.
goshome , you better watch that Ltd News don’t Cut and paste your story.
Actually not ever seeing him in Canberra might be part of Gillies plan
Victoira
simons brother David was the best treasurer we ever had here, and i always admired
Simon when he was opposition leader.
Thinks long and hard before he speaks and yesterday did he put the media in their place. wtte i have a good story to tell here, to one of the jounos who wanted to go of message wtte you can ask me that when i have finished saying what I wasn’t to say
i thought great Simon keep that up
the others then actually stayed on message with thier questions
Crean was regional development before Howard govt and he did a good job.
my say
Yes, agreed. Simon Crean is one of the most experienced members of the cabinet, and it will serve Labor well.
Now that the PM has got that sorted I’m off to get organised to watch my team thrash hers tonight. I’ll get the scarves out and the flag just to make sure. Sorry about that, PM, but this is one thing I’m ain’t gonna let you win!
victoria, having said that. I’m a dunce when it comes to predicting these things so Abbott will probably leave him languishing on the backbench, or make him Shadow Minister for Nothern Ireland
Rabbott could just give Turnbull the Leader of the Opposition role and resign. That would be the best result for the Opposition but I don’t think they have got that much foresight.
madcyril
If you heard George on LL last night. I think he said that Turnbull should be offered finance or treasurer. I can’t recall exactly.
If the NBN bombs, Labor will never be elected again.
BH
Send some kisses Brett Kirk’s way!!
TT
It’s going to be very closely watched. Turnbull is the obvious person to attack it, esp the business side of it.
I think she’s a very effective ministerial performer. I saw the press conference during the election campaign, where Jules was speaking on the ALP’s Murray Darling plan & Penny would step-in & very effectively answer all the technically complex questions.
Julia seems to see eye to eye with Crean, he was a bit of a minder during the hard days. Could have worse freinds. Then again, I thought Rishworth would get a guernsey.
vic
Abbott said before the election Turnbull definitely wouldn’t get Finance or Treasury.
After listening to George Megalogenis last night on Lateline, I think that Malcolm Turnbull has played the last 3-4 months even better than I originally thought.
Abbott can’t leave him on the backbench or make him Shadow Climate Change minister as it will make the divisions in the Liberal Party clear, however if he gives him the Shadow Communications Portfolio he’ll be giving him a way to play to one of his major strengths (technology).
In Abbott’s view, the Shadow Treasurer or Shadow Finance Minister position might be the best choice (keep your friends close and your enemies closer).
I wouldn’t want to be in Mr Abbott’s shoes right now!
Truthy, I’m sure if Rudd has a job to do representing the country’s interests internationally, then they will fuel up the 747 so he can meet his committments.
I’m sure it would never be a greater waste than funding a detention centre in Nauru.
I wonder if Joel Fitzgibbon was expecting to be offered something?
Diogenes
Did Rabbott specifically say that Turnbull would not be offered these portfolios in this new parliamentary cycle?
TruthHurts @ 911
He’ll have to turn up for the votes.
victoria, he should be involved in their finance team, but I can’t see any major changes occuring at the moment. Besides Robb’s on the prowl and is after Joe’s job. Look out Joe, if Robb don’t get ya Malcolm will
madcyril
but the coalition are having a lovefest at the moment. Haven’t you heard? According to them they are brothers and sisters united.
victoria, he said he would leave the economic team unchanged if they were elected. Not sure if that promise still counts
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/tony-abbott-vows-to-leave-economic-team-unchanged-if-elected/story-fn59nsif-1225900553727
I too thought Rishworth would get a Parl Sec position.
Hockey has eye on the leadership this time around as well, big time!
victoria, yes a “band of brothers and sisters” according to Tony. What was Pyne saying about the new parliament not being a love in
madcyril
thanks for that link. I did not realise Rabbott had made this statement. Interesting to see what will actually occur.
vic
I suppose he only technically guaranteed those jobs if they won, but it would be a big flip-flop.
madcyril
it is only a love in for the coalition. For Labor it is all doom and gloom.
Remember one rule for them and another for everyone else. It is only fair.
Let the Tory brawling over the spoils of defeat begin. It is always one of the highlights of an LNP opposition. A narrow defeat means there are a herd of them searching for a piece of the action.
So JBishop not confirmed as foreign affairs then?
Interesting.
Julia has no threat to her leadership provided things run fairly smoothly. On the other side, all we will hear over the next two years will be leadership speculation between Abbott, Turnbull and Hockey.
They have ZERO policies to occupy themselves with any other issue.
There is a lot of risk in the NBN, it is likely that takeup and utilisation will drag. Home users may not necessarily jump on it straight away and business will take some time to get the server infrastructure and applications in place.
I would expect the roll-out to go smooth enough, maybe the odd additional cost etc but utilisation will be the thing.
Come next election it will give the opposition opportunity to point at it and say “look a white elephant! Nobody is using it”.
confessions
They still haven’t found anywhere they can hide her.
James Bodentown 864
What qualifications did Farrell have from Harvard? I just looked at his parliamentary biography and it only mentions his law degree from Adelaide Uni.
If I was Abbott, I’d put Turnbull in Treasury and leave Robb in Finance, I think. Paul Fletcher in Communications, probably.
Joe can have something else.
There’s always Vets Affairs!
Did well, loved by her electorate. Murdochrisy never went hard on her. She still going to sit in the same place.? Many bludgers would like that.
Ch 9 goes with the fairly obvious (and true)
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/7959926/pm-gillard-rewards-rudd-plotters
is that similar to what oakshott was offered
some one said something about the NBN,, esperieced ceo, in co operation with the gov. in place in most part of the world, may the cost will be a higher but that everything if it takes years, even if you build a home you often end up 10 percent out.
the headline is alwasy more important that the big picture
Does anyone know what Malcolm Turnbull thinks about Abbott’s Paid Parental Leave scheme?
Jon
I doubt people will not take up Broadband. It is quick and efficient. I started off with dial up. Then ADSL, and then Broadband. There is no comparison between that and Broadband. Broadband will be popular.
I hope Turnbull does get treasury. The plotting will start the next morning.
do you have inside information none of us know what really happened and so what.
people are mostly rewarded for talent and hard work.
and best to have them in the tent than out. dio
It’s probably fair to say Rishworth missed out because of Farrell, both being in SA and all that. Farrell isn’t the future, he’s in his mid 50s FFS, whereas Rishworth can, and should look forward to many years in parliament. The only reason Farrell is there is so the PM can keep him inside the tent and away from onside.
The number of people that think it is plain dumb is greater than one. Given labors near death experience I can’t understand why they continue pissing people off for no gain.
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/conroys-net-filter-still-alive-and-kicking-20100910-1540s.html
Thanks, Dio. Er, you don’t drive a Porsche, do you?
If Turnbull is going to plot (and I assume he is), it isn’t going to make much difference what portfolio he’s in.
So Abbott may as well put him in Treasury.
Labor 50.08 % 2PP and 19,705 votes ahead of the Fibs.
Diogs,
I thought channel 9 would have gone with the proven fact that you informed us all of “the dunce of her school gets finance”.
I understand Robb was the architect of CostingsGate, which has cost the coalition its credibility on economic management. It should be Robb, not Hockey who is moved to another portfolio.
confessions
but Hockey signed off on it and defended it. He is just as culpable.
Dyno, it’s much easier to plan for the top job from the second most important position
Whatever role Turnbull gets is going to cause a problem for Abbott.
If I were in his shoes, I’d give Turnbull something out of the way like Indigenous Affairs or Defence or maybe even Foreign Affairs.
Victoria,
No I am sure they will but I think the takeup will be slower that imagined, just the logistics of connecting so many people will drag it out, let alone the apathy that many people will have. Many of the benefits of a fast connection are much more obvious in hindsight. I hope Labor are sandbagging for this outcome is all.
triton
A Mazda 2 actually. I have met Henk Giele though before all that unpleasantness.
Centre
I don’t recall referring to Wong as the dunce of the school. I said she wasn’t the “sharpest tool in the shed”. There were plenty brighter than her. She certainly wasn’t dumb. She was evidently conscientious and unremarkable.
Jon
I suspect the packages to take up Broadband will be extremely competitive.
victoria: PvO says Hockey revived the coalition’s polling on better economic manager question. I would keep him there for those reasons.
Diogs @ last paragraph 971,
I was right again, you are funnier than Finns
confessions, I’m a member, out here in the sticks, the inside info is from Sneath and Gazzola. Fine people but I think the national stuff eludes us. Nuance and subtlety I get from sites like this.
Centre
Perhaps you can find the reference to “dunce of the school” if you believe you are right.
Julie Bishop on Sky. Refuses to say whether she wants to stay on in FA. Whinges and moans about Rudd and Smith.
Can anyone else tell me what degree Farrell obtained at Harvard? Is James Bondetown still there? Study at Harvard costs a fortune, unless you have a schlarship. Why would you not mention it if you havea degree from there?
Here is a link to his parliamentary webpage:
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FI0N%22
Though here is an alternative view:
http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/general/the-godfather-of-unity/1899985.aspx?storypage=0
Diogs if you are going to insult someone by saying that they are not the sharpest tool in the shed or that there are plenty brighter than her, you practically may as well have said she is the dunce of her school.
Socrates:
Perhaps he didn’t finish his studies at Harvard?
http://www.nswalp.com/labor-people/7/216/don-farrell
Will J Bishop remain in foreign affairs? She should. She is the Deputy. Any other position is a demotion. What is she scared of
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 4:02 pm | Permalink
“I don’t recall referring to Wong as the dunce of the school. I said she wasn’t the “sharpest tool in the shed”.
A disgrace condesending coment
Penny has proved that moderateness , commonsense and wisdom , (and guts genuinely defending Labor’s sensible non same sex laws when she is gay) , sure beats an elitist who thinks School marks is all that counts
Jon, NBN plans in Tassie from iinet NBN1 Bundled 10 +10 =$29.95 100Mbps and NO phone rental NBN 2 ” 100 + 100 = 49.95 ” ” ”
NBN 3 ” 200 + 200 = 69.95
NBN 4 ” 500 + 500 = 99.95
Confessions
Thanks. I suppose that could just be a short course but I still wonder how he afforded the study there? He presumably didn’t get a scholarship since he didn’t get honours in his law degree. Even back then Harvard fees were very steep. Did the union pay? I wish my employer had paid for all my further education.
Who will speak on behalf of Penny Wong in the HOR?
“Wilkie to derail ‘flawed’ mining tax”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/11/3009132.htm?section=justin
Hope Wilkie will learn fast. He seems to shoot from the hip a bit.
Yes, loose cannon is Wilkie, being obstructionist will make him a right pain in the butt.
Yes, I think it is Wilkie that had better start consulting with Industry experts and fast.
Too charitable, Confess. They didn’t have any credibility on economic management to begin with. Only a long record of self-serving spin and the good fortune to have been in government for a global boom + huge domestic minerals boom.
Bishop did seem a bit shrill in her bus stop (technically a door stop, but conducted in front of a bus stop). Rudd was always able to humiliate her in QT when he was PM, I expect he’ll be able to do the same as FM.
what’s sensible about them, other than they put human rights second to attempting to be electable. it doesn’t take guts to defend the status quo.
Last I heard Australia was among the world’s fore-runners in the take-up of new technology.
Oh, he wants the tax to expand to other commodities. Mmmm……
I suspect Wilkie is thinking of taking it back to it’s original form.
And the industry were cacking over the Greens?
may be nice to let him know nicely the public have had it with the mine
tax most of us want to put it behind us.
lets hope he is a quick leaner, its ok to say all this when you are not elected
it is a different kettle of fish when it comes down to working through a policy,.
I am sure Ken Henry knows more and he needs to talk to him.
so perhaps a few polite emails
you can alwasy add to it over time, may be next time around.
just pass the dam thing
Hmm, where the crap is Higher Education located now?
What about Home Affairs? Brendan O’Connor still?
Gut feel is that higher ed is with Kim Carr but I cant find any details.
Whilst all were delirous on day Wilkie went for Julia , i said cautions red lites , he was a dangerous cannon , & that he took too long to back Julia IN a clear 65% ‘LEFT’ hartland seat I think brandt will be as well , but more nuanced
As for othr 2 , too early to tell but suspect stability will be there over ride factor
I’m guessing the Telstra NBN plan will have a 500mb download limit and charge 5 bucks a meg thereafter…..
Lefty e Garratt, Evans and Carr all have parts of education.
Darren
Brendan is unchanged
Centre
If you can’t tell the difference between those terms, I really can’t help you.
Ron
Kevin Foley referred to himself as not being the brightest tool in the shed last year.
I don’t know if you people have noticed this but we live in a democracy and our elected politicians can vote whatever way they want. Wilkie was voted in by the people and his policies have been clear all along.
What do you PBers mean when you say Wilkie went for Gillard?
Gillard v Abbott
Swan v Hockey
Rudd v Bishop
Smith v Johnston
Wong v Robb
Pound for pound, Labor will easily account for their shadows.
Is this the first time the Defence Minister and shadow both come from WA?
Bowen v Morrison.
Cool, calm and collected vs shouty, hysterical and alarmist.
You have to be joking. Never? That’s a bloody long time.
Steve
What did Carr get in education?
If Turnballs doesn’t get a position on the front bench the fur is going to fly. It was promised to him pre-election.
Robb & Sloppy collectively have made a mess of financial costings.
When will Abbott announce his shadows?
Thanks Ron
Hello, back again.
A> Re NBN: as far as I can tell from my ISP, (this may not be comprehensive or accurate) when the roll-out is complete, there will be
1. the equity pricing scheme (i) fibre to the c93% of homes & other landline users (commerce, service etc) and (ii) satellite etc connections for the other c7%
2. other (non-equity) systems, eg (i) mobile BB using mobile phone connections (ii) mobile BB using satellite etc connections
3. Can one opt out of the NBN? (i) if your ISP still offers dial-up & ADSL – mine won’t (ii) not cheaply.
B> Will Malcolm Turnbull become Shadow Treasurer/ finance minister?
Pro: Probably the only Oppo member to whom no “costings debacle” or “uncosted, without due process bribes offered to Indies” mud will stick
Anti: If he gets it, and makes a good fist of it (and ignores leaks & leakers) you could safely bet on his challenging for the leadership (Prob after 1 July next year)
Warning: I’ve been a lousy political tipster so far
Dee
Actually I think they faked them and almost got away with it.
Vincent
http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/prime-minister-announces-new-ministry/
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
Ron
“Kevin Foley referred to himself as not being the brightest tool in the shed last year.”
he is allowed to , about himself
I was th darkest tool in any School shed with english , not that you’d know it
but what you did , and dont realize was YOU called Penny ‘not brightest tool in shed , and that is condesending Her School marks is irrelevent to her ‘Minister capacity’ she brings to tables
It would be interesting to find out exactly what Wilkie is on about and what he said. I am afraid I find a MSM headline of little significance when it comes to reality.
Has he said he would oppose or is he just interested in more information and briefings before he is prepared to commit ? If this is the case ie wants more information then good on him. Strong communication between labor and the indies can only be a good thing and will, I believe, cut down the angles for the MSM to attack the government.
And will he match them in the reps and Senate?
Barnaby may get shadowy finance back.
i dont think its the verb, its the sided with her decided on her ?
did any one hear what he actully said.
Ron
Obviously your school didn’t recognise your unique talents. You should have lent them Finnegans Wake and told them you helped write it.
I agree with that to a large extent. The actual context was that I was responding to her being described as a “true intellectual” which I disagreed with for the reasons stated above.
Another landmark, with Penny Wong the first female Finance Minister.
My say , its PBers are Poll blugders
ru
Does it create a problem for Labor having the finance minister in the Senate? Will Swan just have to bear more of the brunt?
Pls could someone give me an appraisal of Joe Ludwig. If he’s taking over from Tony Burke I’d like to know what sort of a fist he will make of it.
Can we put the tools back in the shed and build a bridge and GET OVER IT.
The Dr is in (briefly) any news apart from the ministry?
Greeting companeros!
Exactly. I think some people here are finding it tough adjusting to the new paradigm.
No signs of incompetence. Standard grade minister.
Dr Bogan
Everything as usual. Media doing usual beatup. “Smith warns PM about Rudd”, etc
Joe Ludwig is the son of Queensland AWU faction leader Bill Ludwig. Joe is a competent hardworking and methodical person according to the few people I have met who know him well. I am confident he has all the credentials to handle the job, Lizzie.
ITEP
Is standard grade enough for the new rural / CC importance ?
Thanks Steve. Between you & ITEP, sounds OK
Howard did not have a problem with Minchin in the Senate. But I guess Nick was never really a Finance Minister.
Diog, wRONg, here we go again. Swan-Wong job is to get the mechanics and processes right. It’s Jules’ job to sell it to the punters with the support of Swan-Wong etc etc.
My apology to all of the bludgers. i fail again with Diog. must do better next time.
Senorita, how was the siesta?
If Barnaby is Finance again (what’s the polite term for god forbid?) then he and Wong will be well-placed togather in the Senate.
Swong?
Lizzie, it might have been a deliberate move to make Rabbott put Barnyard in as Shadow Finance Minister.
Steve – good thought. Can’t see Barnaby’s particular brand of logic beating Wong’s detailed criticisms.
Saw an interesting piece on the tobacco lobby’s participation in the election on ABC News 24 earlier today. Very interesting.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/11/3009026.htm
I can only hope Labor continue to stand up to the tobacco and any other industries as required.
Wong – actually I meant “forensic analysis”. Much better
Doyley @1019
That is what I was referring to in terms of learning. And Diog I have no problem with him voting as an independent or seeking more information or having an opinion. Just dont negotiate a position through the media. The opposition gets enough free kicks.
I remember Dio saying a friend of his went to school with Wong said she wasn’t too bright.
Mmmmm….
What can we make out of Swan-Wong?
Swan – Wong? I do hope it’s not swansong…
Itep
Did you see the expose on the tobacco industry on Lateline last night?
Or Wong – Swan
Wilkie’s current stance on the MRRT is unsurprising as it remains unchanged from when he ran as an independent candidate. Would indicate that the newspaper reports are accurate.
http://www.andrewwilkie.org/content/index.php/site/issues/P6/
Dee
Umm no. I said she was not “very bright”. There is a difference. People start wailing here anytime there is anything not 100% complimentary about Labor. It affects their ability to reason. It’s either that or the veil of tears they have to view the screen through.
Finn the siesta was most pleasant & I have indulged in a media free day so just trying to catch up with any developments of note
Senator Joe Ludwig, son of union patriarch and Labor powerbroker Bill Ludwig
http://www.smos.gov.au/biography.html
ABC Online has turned Wilkie’s “threat” into an action, declaring in its headline that he will “derail” the tax.
Even The Australian, which actually spoke to Wilkie, or so it says, makes it clear it is a threat not to vote for the tax in its current form.
Not the ABC, who can’t even steal a story from another source without ramping up the anti-government rhetoric.
To repeat what someone said earlier today. I thought Penny Wong performed brilliantly during the 2007 campaign and that’s probably why KR gave her CC. She seemed absolutely unflappable.
Later on, she needed more persuasive techniques and didn’t quite seem to cut it.
Pegasus
Andrew Wilkie is pretty pedantic on policy detail and that in my opinion can only be a good thing. Perhaps he wants to close all the loopholes and get out free avenues.
If the article is correct he wants to include more commodities.
I dropped off to sleep during the Mega & Tingle interview last night, waking at the end to hear Mega say something about the ABC cutting & pasting.
Can anyone elaborate?
Thanks, OzPol. Sounds rather a straight up-and-down sort of chap.
He has referred to taxing “Super Profits”. I think he has missed the point. This tax is less like a profits tax and more like a royalty than the original concept. Labor’s current proposal is for a fairly moderate resource rent to apply only to iron and coal. Petroleum Resource Rent Tax will be applied to coal seam gas. This is a tax on bulk, crude commodities.
Mineral ores that require milling and refining, like gold, copper, zinc, lead, nickel, bauxite, uranium and manganese are not subject to the tax at all. Low value minerals, such as gravel and limestone are likewise not included. Mineral sands have also escaped.
It is hard to see how a resource rent tax could be made to apply in a consistent way to crude ores. What value would be placed on the ores, considering they have highly variable mineral content? Their underlying worth is realised only when they have been milled and refined, and these values are going to vary with the mineral content, the metallurgy of every different ore-body and the costs of transporting and refining various ores. Having regard to this, the originally conceived RSPT was not only an impost on mining, it was also a tax on refining.
As well, small mines are excluded on the basis that small-scale miners are more like prospectors than the large companies, and that the revenue from small mines mostly goes back into further exploration and mine development.
Furthermore, the original RSPT provided for a risk-sharing commitment from the Commonwealth. This was opposed by the entire mining industry as well as the finance sector, because it implied a kind of quasi appropriation of the equity in mining ventures. It also exposed the Commonwealth to unspecified future losses from failed mines and was one of the most controversial and irrational features of the RSPT.
There is also the question of how to define “Super Profits”. The original threshold was the Commonwealth Bond rate – an absurdly low level.
I hope that when these things are explained to Wilkie, he will feel inclined to pass the MRRT. But if he refuses, then the tax will be allowed to lapse. There is no way the Government will revisit the RSPT, having just had a near death experience because of the hostility it inspired.
If, as a result of some incomprehensible error, the Government does lose its marbles and tries to revive the RSPT, it will face complete electoral oblivion whenever the next election occurs.
Dee
Mega was trying to slide out of criticising his employer by (correctly) accusing the ABC of using headlines from the Oz.
‘Wilkie was voted in by the people and his policies have been clear all along.’
Itep
“Exactly. I think some people here are finding it tough adjusting to the new paradigm.”
Wilkie got only 21% primary first choice votes
Thats heck of alot diff to actual public suported Undys Oaky , Katter , Windsor , who got 47% , 47% and 62% primary first choise votes
otherwise on same grounds who is arguing Fielding’s polisys represent most Vic voters views I tink you will find that Wilkie and Fielding is maths accidents of voting process , whereas thos 3 above Undys plus Crooked is true reflection of there voters views
I think Don Farrell got one of those US scholarships awarded to strongly anti-communist labor leaders to bolster the free world, kind of thing.
Potential dangers to the NBN program are cost blow-outs, inefficiencies in rolling out the system and the possibility that some all-conquering new techonology will arrive on the scene.
They may have opposed it but the queer point is, when it was dropped all the other miners aside from Rio & BHP were crying foul.
I just don’t get the mining industry. They wanted an RSPT in the first instance. Then they state that we should not have one at all at any level.
Ron, we have a preferential system of electing members to the parliament. The primary vote they receive does not matter one bit. In the Senate, Fielding was elected in the same way any candidate who receives less than a quota is. They’re both as entitled to use their vote as any other member of parliament.
All Wilkie is saying is that there needs to be more consultation before he will consider passing the tax. That’s fair enough.
I didn’t see Lateline but I will posit guess.
What happens is the Australian publishes a story. It might be biased as all heck, but it is original work and contains full quotes.
These stories then reappear an hour or so later on the ABC online site, with a couple of keywords “quoted” from the Australian story and just enough rewording to the cut and pasted copy to avoid being sued for breach of copyright.
ABC Online does not appear to have any actual journalists at all, just a few sub editors who rip material from the wires or other news outlets – oh yes and a few very overpaid columnists such as Crabb and Milne.
lizzie
Thanks!
Mega did not look comfortable with the teeny, weeny bit I saw. Were his eyes darting around or was that just me?
Wilkie is not a “maths accident” either. He was elected because a majority of Denison voters preferred him over the Labor candidate.
So who got what I missed any news today?
Dee
Yes, that was the kind of gotcha moment of the whole interview. He and Tingle sailed along being very lucid and objective until Mega was asked a question about the subject that the Bludgers have discussed ad infinitum – bias in the Oz. As a straight out answer he fended it off fairly well, but not comfortable with it.
Dr B:
There’s a full list of the ministry here:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-gillard-ministry-20100911-155qc.html
Wong comes across as very methodical in thought & speech. I suppose in the thrust of childish antics in parliament this approach doesn’t cut it.
“He was elected because a majority of Denison voters preferred him over the Labor candidate.”
no , not at all
Labor got 36% , libs got 22% , Wilkie got 21% , Greens got 19%
He has no mandate to go against a ‘left’ electorate on key polisys
Dee
No, I think from what I’ve seen of Senate QT she’s fine, very firm and straightforward. Almost the dominatrix. I think it was in the sale to the public of the CC and water policies that she lacked pizzazz. Maybe she was too firm there, where she should have seemed a little more conciliatory.
Dee
Yes, that appears to be the case and is consistent with his views about the RSPT/MRRT.
I particularly liked this quote of his:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/andrew-wilkie-threat-to-block-mine-tax-as-labor-alliance-tested/story-fn59niix-1225917756151
Actually he levelled some pretty ordinary accusations against Rudd when it came to the Australian and its agenda against Labor:
He then went on to accuse the ABC of cutting and pasting the News ltd line – which at least is demonstrably true.
Ron
It doesn’t matter how Wilkie or Fielding or anyone got there. Our system of democracy has put them in the HOR and they get to vote however they want.
It’s the same as the Labor isn’t a legit government argument. That is wrong for the same reason.
Confessions thanks for the link, Wong gets finance that would be a first for a woman right
He got 51.21% of the two candidate preferred vote Ron. He was preferred. He is a validly elected member of the parliament and has as much of a mandate as any other member.
If you want to change our electoral system back to first past the post that’s another argument entirely.
Quick correction.
Obviously Fielding isn’t in the HOR, or hopefully the Senate soon.
So what’s this fuss about Rudd the- apologies plugging back in to what’s going down today.
Bogan, no. Senator Margaret Guilfoyle was Finance Minister from 1980-83.
So who will answer finance questions in the lower house instead of Penny? Will it be Swan or somebody else?
Right thanks Itep thought that might be a first for a woman they rarely get the strongly economic portfolios
Joe Ludwig’s former department sent out a Green Paper on Electoral Reform last year that was very solid.
ron, arguing that tony abbott should be pm because their primary vote was higher than labor’s. oops.
blackdog surely Swan would represent Wong in the House,
itep I was rather young in 1980-83
Probably Swan. They’ll put out a ministry list showing the “other chamber” representation in due course.
I am sure Wilkie is sensible enough to see that his view on the MRRT is not set in stone, I doubt he will vote against it, he just wants to improve it.
Bogan, I wasn’t even born
Dr Bogan, Itep
Thanks
I feel for the public servants in Foreign Affairs (though less so for the spooks
blackdog
David Bradbury is the parl sec fro Treasury. Perhaps he will do it?
Gweneth @1045,
fair call.
What are Finance questions? Who cared about Finance before Tanner?
Diogenes
Posted Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 5:58 pm | Permalink
“Quick correction.
Obviously Fielding isn’t in the HOR, or hopefully the Senate soon”
Not that I would hav pointed such an error out
Yes Itep etc I know Fielding and Wilkie is there , i can see them
But there results of getting elected although legal under our sytem is still maths accidents , wont get repeat Neither represent what there majority voters think , and in Denison case it is overwhelming ‘left’ seat , always will be & if wilke ignores that fact he is not represnting , unlike Undys primarys 47 , 47 , 62
So Itep you’re a spring chicken I was alive almost old enough to vote in fact, but not being an Australia specialist do not have all these details in my head :;
Diogenes, parliamentary secretaries can’t answer questions during question time. For anything else though it’s a possibility.
Here is the Wiki link for Margaret Guilfoyle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Guilfoyle
Evening Diog shall we be nice to each other this evening?
Ron
That is getting pretty close to saying that KOW should have gone with the Libs coz that is what the majority of their electorates wanted (according to two polls after the election).
I can’t see that you can have it both ways.
Dee says:
Dio says:
Mmmmmm…..
Other possibilities for representing Wong in the House would be Shorten (Assistant Treasurer) or Gray (Special Minister of State, which falls within the Finance portfolio).
I want Julia and Tim in the lodge, some decent cartoons from FDOTM, and the sun to rise tomorrow. Not too much?
The mining industry wants profits-based taxes in place of royalties, but there are constitutional problems with this. States levy royalties but cannot tax profits. The Commonwealth can tax profits, but does not own the resources and therefore cannot impose royalties.
Some explorers would love a Commonwealth subsidy for their operations. Which business would not want a 40% Commonwealth grant to cover its losses? But that is about as far as it goes. They can’t have it both ways: if there are to be tax concessions on losses, the Commonwealth will have to take a cut of the profits.
Twiggy and the other aspiring moguls don’t like the MRRT because it makes it harder for them to borrow against the value of their new mines and they will have to substitute equity for debt, diluting their interests in developing ventures. But that is just tough, really. If the Commonwealth is going to take some of the net cash-flow in tax, then the mines are worth less money and are more difficult to fund. Can’t be helped.
Thanks for that ltep.
Good evening Dr Bogan.
I’m always nice.
Are you also counting the days until the exodus from FA starts? I’m sure the media is.
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/360229/what_saying_labor_nbn_victory/
Dee
I think we’ve covered that already today. See Foley.
Although parliamentary secretaries can’t take questions during question time, they can appear during Senate Estimates if the portfolio being considered is not held by a Senate minister. This means Feeney, Farrell, Lundy and Collins may very shortly get their first grilling.
What! I thought I was the youngest here.
ltep
Can they wear a burkha and remain incognito?
I really like Wong. She is the calm voice of reason, reflection and forbearance.
anony
you is mixing cheese and butter
Julia is PM bcause th majority of elected HoR MP’s suport her Thats our system
That applies even if Crooked had been deciding th vote
But if Crooked had done so , he was clearly not represening his seats majority views which is an entirely diff apple to chew Ditto Wilkie , he is valid elected thats not th Q But his 21% primarys is in a clear ‘left’ seat , given Labor got 36% and Greens 19% , and for him to vote against clear left key polisys is I think not representing his seat , and i’m suggesting he may be a loose cannon , we shall see
1111
No in WA Courts.
I like Penny Wong too. I remember watching QT in the senate when the CPRS was supposed to be passed by the Libs/Nats. She handled that week extraordinarily well with all their stupid questions and the rantings of Barnyard. I would have lost my temper a lot of times, but she remained calm all the way through. I think there was only one occasion when you could see her frustration with the bullyboy tactics.
One would hope that he has learnt a great lesson from recent events. It is highly likely he has been warned.
Tom
That ruling only applied to that specific case and the judge said it wasn’t a precedent (dunno how).
It would be interesting to see what happened if someone turned up to Parlt in a burkha just to make a point.
Agree she looks like a good choice. She’s very calm and measured in her approach.
The only criticism I’ve really heard about her is that she can be a bit boring – sounds perfect for a Finance Minister!
Triffid
I’m going to miss Lindsay Tanner in Parlament. Always good for a joke and getting stuck into the opposition. Hopefully, the tradition will continue.
Bronnie should wear one for aesthetic purposes.
So Immigration has taken a turn to the right by the looks of things.
Yes Dio
always nice, I expect some early retirements, unforseen circumstance & secondments in FA before too long from what I hear about Senor Dudd
Hi Pbers
I at a friends today so am out of a loop, snuck online to get the latest. GFrom what I have been told. It looks like there is no Ministery or Parlt’y Secretary for Disability and Bill Shorten is lost to the Disability sector? I see something on aged care and mental health but I hope the ALP doesn’t think that covers out.
Can pbers please bring me up to speed, before I sent my angry email. Has disability been sold out again?
Will Arbib go to the footy tonight with Julia given that he’s Minister for Sport?
ron, let me explain. a candidate sets out their views. voters then vote for the candidate. there is no assumption that a candidate will poll his constituents before every decision and then vote accordingly. wilkie is doing exactly what he told his constituents he would do before they voted for him. he is also doing exactly what he told gillard he would do, in that he was providing her with limited support on agreed terms.
‘left’ does not equal whatever the labor right feel is acceptable today. it is completely irrelevant what his primary vote was. it was the greens who pushed wilike ahead of the liberal to actually be in a contest with the alp candidate. he then got over the line with lib preferences. so your argument doesn’t align with the facts or really make any sense. i’m sorry, but that’s just how it is.
I have a friend who will have Arbib as a minister for parts of his work, I bet that will make him so happy, not
I can’t see it on the list.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/09/11/gillard-announces-ministry/
The only senior portfolio areas I can see that haven’t been held by a woman are Treasury, Defence, Foreign Affairs and Attorney-General.
Sandra, I think what Gillard has done is give autonomy to her ministers to assign responsibility to the parliamentary secretaries that fall under their portfolios. This means that Roxon might assign disabilities to Catherine King.
Itep:
All the biggies not for women then? Geez why am I not surprised, at list we have Julia
Catherine King Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_King
Sandra @ 1123, I’d sugget holding off on angry emails until we have more information.
A few things that might be enocuraging: Jan McLucas as the FAHCSIA parliamentary secretary is someone who knows a lot about disability and used to have a shadow role for disability pre 2007.
The biggest thing in disability policy the next few years (yes bigger even than the National Disability Strategy in my view, and without saying more than I should I have had some involvement with both) is the process towards a national disability insurance scheme (for which we have Shorten and Rudd to thank and before them Brian Howe and Gough). Where is that work being done: the Productivity Commission. Which portfolio is that in: Treasury. Where has Shorten gone? … yes that’s right.
Also that everyone has been saying that Shorten was legitimately in line for promotion because of his performance on disability.
Disability I think has a high enough profile in this government’ s thinking to be fairly confident about not falling off the map. Just one example: Did you notice in Julia’s Q and A appearance when she was responding to something about how could a non-religious believer like her represent believers, in saying words to the effect that no one person could represent the Australian community in all its diversity after saying she was of course the first PM to know what it is like to be a women , she said she didnt have the experience of being an indigenous person or a person with a disability. I really dont think disability has been that far up front in political headspace before.
And of course the aforementioned National Disability Strategy is slated to go to the next COAG meeting for endoresement. Whose responsibility is that? the PM herself. Have a read of it (its in the policies section on the alp.org.au site) if you havent yet. Much work still to do but many good things in it.
anony
Your whole arguement will get demolished if Wilkie brings down this Labor govt
Thereafter he’d be lucky to get 5% in total
Labor would win seat easy , with wilkie’s 1/2 of Lib prefs returning home to libs as primarys as well
What you miss is that Katter , Oaky and windsor with primarys of 47% , 47% and 62% could hav gone EITHER way for Julia or Abbott , and they still will get re-elected next time because they is clearly there voters first choice anyway , they regarded as independants 100%
I’m back from the local footy Grand Final. My mob got up big time, Caps off a great week of victories.
First red under way.
So unhinged one, you’ve seen Julia’s Ministry. Trump that!
Isn’t it a pity you don’t have a dozen Mesmas at your disposal.
ltep: no, Sandra was right about that bit, disability is not purely a Health issue thanks very much.
The National Disability Strategy does flag an agenda for improvement in access to health services, and accountability for health outcomes, for people with disability. But it is way broader than that.
Sorry Marrickville, you’re right that disabilities appears to come within the FaHCSIA portfolio. Could be that Julie Collins or Jan McLucas get assigned responsibility for disability strategy.
Will Abbott match Shadow Portfolios to Govt Ministries? Or will he have a Ministry for Stopping the Boats, a Ministry for Stopping Big New Taxes etc?
“Or will he have a Ministry for Stopping the Boats,”
surely Tony would wait for TTH to return from patrol before demoting him
BK:
Congrats to your local footy team.
I’ve just lit the fire and poured myself a glass of red to watch the news.
I see there’s a ministry for mental health (and ageing). Was there one previously?
BK
Glass of port to be poured shortly to toast your local team (as good an excuse as any)
o the sarcasim of the media
Sorry if someone has already answered this before, but is Penny Wong the first woman to hold the position of Finance Minister in Australia?
Indeed. “The faceless men will become all the more recognisable.”
Privi, Margaret Guilfoyle was Finance Minister between 1980-83.
what was simpkin on abc saying about wtte obama and Clinton in the middle of that
and what did that have to do with anything.
when are abc just going to report news not tell us their opinion
when there is a new board in place, lets make it clear thats what is needed.
i dont think the public or qld eres would take kindley to j bishops remark about kevin, ? and his ministry of foreign affairs,
confessions and the good doctor.
Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.
Answered my own question… Yes, Penny Wong is the first female Minister of Finance in Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Finance_and_Administration_%28Australia%29
ron, now your beef with wilkie is that he makes his decisions without thinking about being re-elected. clearly a man with no moral compass. every member should only make decisions that are likely to get them re-elected. that’s how we get policy with real vision and courage.
privi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Guilfoyle
Actually, I don’t know how to read…
Dame Margaret Guilfoyle was the first female finance minister.
ja ja ja.
also it called negotiation, i have a feeling the people that voted for him will be letting him know, really all we want is this very divisive tax passed.
May be add to down the track.
As i said before no good moaning here write gentle letter to him
I think he has to see that he represents us first find out what we the voters want.
Senorita, Amigo dont do “nice” thing to Diog. We give him “nasty” stuff and he loves it
‘Your whole arguement will get demolished if Wilkie brings down this Labor govt
Thereafter he’d be lucky to get 5% in total
Labor would win seat easy , with wilkie’s 1/2 of Lib prefs returning home to libs as primarys as well
What you miss is that Katter , Oaky and windsor with primarys of 47% , 47% and 62% could hav gone EITHER way for Julia or Abbott , and they still will get re-elected next time because they is clearly there voters first choice anyway , they regarded as independants 100%’
“ron, now your beef with wilkie is that he makes his decisions without thinking about being re-elected.”
clearly I never said that Instead I simply demonstrated how foolish your argument is that Denison is not a rock sold left seat that Wilkie must represent th voters views of , and that consequenes of his failure of bringing down A labor govt will be his oblivon You just dont seem to get th diff of primary votes that th 3 Undys got , and why
Finns
has diog been prescribing dodgy ‘diogs is nice’ pills for th serierenra senorita
Here was a funny one. With the Rabbott still unable to decide how the spoils of defeat will be divided, the SA Shadow Education Minister has volunteered to rattle the sabre on behalf of Rabbott.
DavidPisoniMP
1. Gillard’s education pledge is compromised with no education minister and Peter Garrett minister for schools http://tinyurl.com/3a8o3l9 about 3 hours ago via web
Amigo Ronnie, yes. The Senorita is in training for the amigoship. She has to know rule no: 1: Never be nice to Diog.
On the (media) theme (human interest angle?) of Rudd being FM in a Gillard led government, and how fraught that is…
the ABC TV Sydney news pointed to the parallel of Obama and Hillary Clinton…surely the Hayden-Hawke dynamic is the most direct parallel, yet it seems hardly to be mentioned at all
Finns
I watched that movie The Cove for you last night. Mrs D was not impressed but I said it was for you!
sandrabekin
There are now two parl secs in the FaHCSIA portfolio – one or both of them with have disability.
here is also a Minister for Social Inclusion and the government sees a lot of the disability agenda in this light.
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet – full names of Ministries etc
http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/prime-minister-announces-new-ministry/
Of course can;t really tell full meaning until AAOs are signed.
I hope that everyone realises this will happen.
If we win the 2022 World Cup, Arbib will have a monster portfolio with Sport. The infrastructure is in the billions and hugely contentious.
Sport is normally pretty dozy but it would be Olympic-sized with the World Cup.
and like the olympics, end up being a fib PM when it is on
Gus
And didn’t that just suck!!
Gus
What’s your tip for the Rugby?
No sign of a Coalition agreement being made yet.
Obviously it is easier to negotiate in opposition, isn’t it?
And surely it needs to be done before shadow ministers get
put in place.
But where is it?
Gusface wasn’t that a weird sight the PM elbowing the GG out of the way to get in front of the cameras for the official opening of the Sydney Olympics.
lao
heartbreak and gnashed teeth
dio,steve
labor does the hard yards and the fibs get the glory
And mentioned again today on ABC radio.
Is this the beginning of something from the media?
Dr Good, this would be the first time that the Liberals and Nationals will have to negotiate with the Queensland LNP as well after an election. It will be interesting if they can get any agreement at all now that hybrid mob is thrown into the mix.
Alas with you on that…
Pre-match stat: Nonu outweighs Giteau by 19kg!!
ARU has outdone even its own appalling ability of garbage anthem singers with this NZ effort; John Willamson wildly over-rated too.
NZ has the haka; Oz has J.Williamson warbling a waltzing matilda…
And will Katter get anything from Abbott in the arrangment
for Opposition?
Lao
we need to reassess how we grade players at top level
there is a disconnect at the top methinks
I know a dolphin. He was a loner for years. He comes with us when we take the boat out. He’s got a female dolphin and a baby. We never thought he’d get around to it. He did, and when he swims up to the boat to make eye contact he’s just proud as. He showed us, rapt. Wallaroo SA, I have a friend who dives for scallops in the bay, dolphin say’s hi! all the time. In the early mornings at Bird Island they rush into the shallows to herd the mullet, seen it many times. The noise is amazing. Sorry to bore you. It’s just you hear about them here.
The fact that Shorten was involved in getting the numbers for Julia should not preclude him from a place in the ministry.
We should be looking at the competency of individuals irrespective of factions or head counters or whatever. Shorten has ability and competence by any measure. He has runs on the board with his great and compassionate work with the Disabilities sector.
The criticism of him seems to be that he is ambitious and a “plotter”. Well, Labor Party history is full of those people, and I guess it applies to all parties, and should not be a disqualifying fact for further advancement.
Let’s face it, Kevin Rudd had to go, he was out of control, wouldn’t listen to most of his Ministers, and was intolerant of criticism from anyone. Surely that is a disqualifying factor for leadership by any reckoning.
I’m not interested in factions in choosing a ministry. Performance and competence, and potential, must be more important at all times.
The omission of Kelly and Dreyfus is puzzling. Or am I out of touch with the realities of Labor Party machinations?
Here’s an alternative view of Broadband that’s doing the rounds.
http://www.coxmedia.com.au/articles/121/broadband_plan_is_smoke_and_mirrors_by_peter_j._cox.html
steve
he has his hand on it
more tripe that fact
Grey, you just carrying on keep talkin about me
Steve, the Cox forgot to mention that it will “burn you house down”
George, I liked the way he saved it for when the Rabbott won – then threw it out there anyway.
These are the great big ones.
steve,
Looks like Cox don’t get it, most of the list is already NBN doing or will be doing.
Not one to gloat but…
From the Essential Research: 51-49 to Labor thread
To Speak of Pebbles@1252
Too good!
What happened to “Sustainable Population”??!
Pebbles:
That’s pretty good.
Pebbles, easier to find this way.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/09/06/essential-research-51-49-to-labor-4/comment-page-26/#comment-619967
Gus
I reckon the structural issues are (1) No second tier – no Currie Cup/ITM equivalent (2) poor breadth – need to get into league’s heartland
His reward will he’ll get to keep his seat next election if things turn sour… the other two on the other hand…
the tiges roosters match was a cracker in the last 15 mins.
we lead the kiwis 14-6
I cant watch the 2nd half
I notice Arbib didn’t get demoted to court jester. Next time, I’m voting Green!
Gus, wow, 14-Sex – Go Wobbleby
rooters, what a win
Interesting putting Bowen in Immigration. Evans had his heart in the right place and truly believed in a compassionate immigration program but he was a hopeless salesman and debater, and got kicked around by the opposition far too easily. At least Bowen will be able to bat the crap away and even throw some back!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/opposition-harbours-a-secret-death-wish-20100910-154yc.html
75% chance a Pollie will keel over in the next 3 years forcing a by-election according to this article.
Go Wobbleby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just settle into opposition for three years and take your medicine for losing Truthy. Not enough people voted for your side that is the problem and because of that you have three years to learn how to cost your spendings.
Mate as far as i’m concerned the games just started.
Gillies hanging by a thread, i’ll be surprised if she makes it to the end of the year as PM.
my say @ 1146
He was actually making a comparison, & a good one. Hiliary was supposed to get the presidential nomination & fought Obama almost to the bitter end, with “bitter” being the operative word. Then people expected him to pick her as his running mate. Didn’t happen. But, for the good of the party, they put their differences aside to get him elected. Her “consolation prize” was the senior ministry “Secretary of State”, third in line to the presidency if Obama or VP Biden – or both – die. In fact, Hiliary has not only proved to be very good at her job, she’s also enjoying it.
Given the similarity between strong similarity between Kev & Hiliary, Julia & Barak, on a day when some online newspaper (& TV) commentators went out of their way to suggest that, because of history, there couldn’t be a close working relationship between Kev & Julia; Mark Simpkin as good as said, “Don’t be ridiculous. Look how well Obama & Clinton (who have a somewhat similar history) work together.
I thought that was very nice of him.
Even if that extremely high arbitrary figure were true, I know which side the death is more likely to come from (clue: the one with MPs dating back from the 70s)
TSOP
Since you were successful in getting right some of the Labor ministries. What say you re Turnbull?
Truthy how’s the opposition’s coalition agreement coming along or is it all too hard to work out now? Get out of dreaming about some lucky win and get the coalition agreement together would be a good move.
Was so much better when the untruthful one was banned. even the worst lib posters post something of interest now and again
I think Homer Simpson said it best
“People can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that”
Us Townsvillians did our part and handed 2 Labor marginals(though one was notional) to the LNP. No wonder Gillie was up here every week doing her media stunts.
We would have a new Lib/Nat government at this point if Victorians didn’t feel the need to subject the rest of the country to their latte lifestyles.
TTH
Are you thanking us Victorians for helping Labor to victory. Much appreciated.
Well, I am better at thinking like a Laborite than a Liberal. Definitely Abbott would want Turnbull on the front bench where he can watch him. But would Turnbull accept, or does he want to build up a reputation as a maverick outsider.
Nevertheless, if he takes up Tony Abbott’s offer, it’ll either be Treasury (Hockey really tanked in that, although Turnbull might receive some competition from Robb for that role. If Robb does get it, Turnbull might get finance.) The other option Tone could consider is giving Turnbull Climate Change, to build up the party’s cred in that area.
I dunno, the Libs are a different species as far as I am concerned…
victoria:
I think TSOP needs to prove it wasn’t just a fluke by giving some shadow minister predictions.
TSOP
Perhaps I should have put the question in the context of what Abbott would want Turnbull to have? I know Turnbull would like the Leadership, with an eye to becoming PM!!
So the Tories won Townsville and lost the rest of Australia that they needed to win Government – Whoopy, big deal. Become electable and get your coalition agreement together which should be signed now. Then you can line up at the next election with a better leader, costed policies and attempt to win.
TSOP
So you don’t see Turnbull destabilising the rock solid love fest that is the coalition at present?
Very pleased about Penny being given finance.
Thoroughness, mastery of detail and quiet competence are three things you look for in an accountant or finance minister. Penny definitely has all three and should keep the rest of the cabinet honest.
Us Victorians did our part and handed 2 Liberal marginals to the ALP. No wonder Abbott was down here every week doing his media stunts.
We would have a continuation of outright majority Labor government at this point if Queensland didn’t feel the need to subject the rest of the country to their conservative lifestyles.
Oops, cross posted.
I thought Hockey had done okay in Treasury. I think he should stay. Turnbull has already been shadow Treasurer, and I can’t recall any spectacular offering from him during that period.
i knew it. never seen you before truthy but i had you pegged straight away. no one does batshit insane like qld.
he he, what are they going to do the with the huge new building for the former Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations, which has just been completed, to house all of DEEWR under one roof?
I agree. Like parading around in swimwear, using idiotic scare campaigning, mocking up a boat to take cheap shots at desperate referees, having an idiotic jingle based on an even more idiotic catchphrase, holding twilight press conferences to avoid scrutiny on the 6 o clock news, holding a double all nighter on the eve of the election. I mean seriously, she was completely all about stupid gimmicks and one liners. She frequently avoided scrutiny, walked out of pressers as soon as the questioning got difficult, her policies were a patchwork intended only to bribe the voters and get away with opposing everything the other side does and were horribly costed – implying either financial incompetence or the intent to deceive. This woman and her team of hateful extremist hacks do not belong in power. They are too juvenile and she should never be PM!
i’m going to go out on a limb and say it will be unchanged, to show ‘stability’.
Desperate refugees
Well, since Wilson Tuckey didn’t get reelected, there goes my ideal shadow Treasurer…
TSOP
Actually, you just reminded me. What happened to the criminal investigations into leaks by Treasury? Treasury could not be trusted with the costings. Who is responsible??
I have heard nothing further. All is quiet.
And a nice DEEWR building it is. Schools people never moved in though.
For the most part, probably. They’re trying to act like they are the government. So it will be minimal.
chewwing the quick now
can we do it
Best way to slow down a potential rival is to keep them busy.
Truthy, have you heard of any logical reason why the lazy coalition has been unable to get their coalition agreement together,
did a dog eat it?
is the Lib/Nat dislike too strong?
is it a complication with the LNP?
oh, and re: the fluke remark, my predictions of the major ministry changes probably was just that…
Apparently Julia is on with Barrie Cassidy tomorrow morning. Let’s see first question. Why did you give Rudd FA?
Townsville now covers Herbert and has now swallowed a large piece of Dawson in a redistrbution, which ironically picked up the most conservative part of Townsville… the suburbs right next to the army base. lol
The minute I heard Dawson now covered the suburbs of Annandale and Idalia I knew the Labor candidates goose was cooked.
Bob Katters electorate also covers far northern parts of Townsville, but these areas don’t have very big populations so doubt they’d be much percentage of his vote.
No wonder we are finally seeing some pork up this way. The southerners will happily steal our mining dollars, but we only get a pittance back when it comes around election time. It’s take take take, and never give.
victoria, second bet on Cassidy. How long until he talks about cracks appearing in the government because the Indies have differing opinions on the Mining Tax
Tasmania and South Australia, as well as the Territorians don’t seem to mind that “latte lifestyle”.
We would have an easily returned ALP government at this point if Queenslanders didn’t feel the need to subject the rest of the country to their XXXX and inbreeding lifestyles.
Damn the sheepshaggers
Us Vics give you stuff all the time, like retirees moving up their for the warm weather.
Personally I think she should have given him FA, but instead he got a ministry. Boom boom.
THE NORTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!! YEEHAW!
madcyril
Agreed. Hopefully Julia is ready to respond effectively.
gus, i am not shearing that with you
Not sure about Garrett in the education portfolio. This term will be interesting for him – he will need to start enforcing state implementation of the new curriculum. There has been simmering hostility about the new curriculum and I imagine it will now rain down on his head. I wonder if he has the stones to stare down the education unions and professional bodies?
*shakes head*
I’m here all week, try the veal
TSOP – please dont include all of Queensland. We are civilised in the SE corner.
Actually I was most disappointed by NSW which seems to have a thing for pain, they had a chance to teach Labor a lesson after all the corruption and bungles in NSW State Parliament, but when it came time to come to bat they went all lightweight and hit Labor with a wet lettuce leaf.
NSW Residents must enjoy their pain.
So is the new Opposition member going to rush into Julia Gillard’s office and say give us some pork or Annandale and Idalia won’t vote for you next time? Get a grip.
TSOP
thats why william is a great psephologist and political analyst
NZ win. How did that happen.
Truthy, I think the NSW Liberal party actually enjoys the pain. Apparently they ran a terrible campaign. They really should have snaffled a few more seats given the swing they got.
The unhinged one reckons it’s illegitimate!
Fessions
Blame the blokes running the game
real talent is being stifled
Ah, so they won fair and square.
Lao
heartbreak and gnashed teeth
Good question victoria…is Grech, Turnbull and Arbetz getting off scot-free?
It’s Saturday night and I happened to find a debate between Tony Abbott and Mark Arbib from May last year. I thought I’d highlight a part of the interview I found very interesting:
LEIGH SALES: Well let me ask: if Mark Arbib is right, Tony Abbott, and over the next six months we see that Australia does comparatively well compared to other economies around the world, isn’t that going to severely undermine the Coalition’s argument that Kevin Rudd has mishandled the crisis?
TONY ABBOTT: Well let’s wait and see what the future brings. Obviously, all of us will, in a sense, be judged by the facts as they unfold. But my point is that all of the money that they are spending, it’s not going to stop us going into a recession. It’s not going to stop the recession being long and deep. And I would argue that the recession will actually be worse in the long run because of the measures that they’ve taken.
MARK ARBIB: But the facts don’t show that. You’ve already seen retail going up month after month. Australia’s retail is going up, the rest of the world is going backwards. Housing: 59,000 first home buyers back into the marketplace.
TONY ABBOTT: So we’re not in a recession?
MARK ARBIB: And, can I tell you, in terms of the stimulus …
TONY ABBOTT: So you think the economy’s great?
MARK ARBIB: … you voted for this one – the first home buyers’ grant doubling and tripling was through the first stimulus package. You voted for it.
But just coming back to the second nation-building package: Tony, you said that we spent $42 billion as cash splash. It wasn’t. 70 per cent of that, $31 billion, was on infrastructure.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200905/r378685_1762870.asx
When I say Southerners I mainly mean Brisvegas.
They have built how many bridges, overpasses, tunnels in Brissie again?
Perhaps for Christmas, Townsville could get the 1 f’ing bridge linking Townsville to Cairns done properly so that the 2 outbound lanes don’t go under every monsoon season. Yes that would be nice. Perhaps when Brissie’s finished off it’s super freeways and dozen bridges they can get around to it, it’s only been like that for 20 years.
Gus
The wallaby 2 Halves are just appalling
You need to accept that not everybody thinks like you. In fact, it’s a tribute to any voter – regardless of for whom they voted – if they don’t let state issues dictate their federal vote.
Is there a dream that they might fluke a win somehow if they are lucky in the next three years or so?
Wot happened? Wallabies frightened of winning?
Lao
thats the halves names
Gus: what has happened to the Wallabies? I don’t understand why we have trouble believing.
Scarps
Nup
just the wrong combo for the kiwis
Gus
And what is the right combo?
spur212
Abbott’s modus operandi has been negative all the way. Think about his slogans. Do they really marry with reality. No. I am still amazed that half of Australia voted for this fraud.
Gus, remote from the action over here but still leading 22-9 in the 68th minute…
Lao
a bit more mongrel and less doggerell
I reckon we should have a 5 person panel
the problem is that the Kiwis play every match like its their last
we play like every match will last
We do not have a consistent goal kicker and how to do proper kick start
TTH#1255
You say that things have not been done properly in Townsville for 20 years. Libs were in power for 11 years, and Labor barely 3. They had a GFC to contend with. Why don’t you have a beef with the Libs who supposedly had heaps of money in the bank.
Looking to make some word-play on the subject of flukes I ended up on Wikipedia’s article on whale tails.
Not exactly where I wanted to go.
I’m kind of amazed. But then again I am also surprised Zumba is popular.
In other words, I really need to drop all expectations of other human beings…
TONY ABBOTT: … But my point is that all of the money that they are spending, it’s not going to stop us going into a recession. It’s not going to stop the recession being long and deep. And I would argue that the recession will actually be worse in the long run because of the measures that they’ve taken.
I wonder what would happen if someone challenged Mr Abbott with this quote …
I bet he’d go back to the faceless factional men or some other version of dodging it …
HB
I learnt today a new meaning for whale tails
I think it demeans fat peeps who wear gstrings in low cut jeans
Gus
Agree on the mongrel bit, but it is tricky when the wallaby is ~10kg/10cm less than the opposition
What do you think of Robbie Deans?
TSOP
That is funny!
Had to laugh at this descripton of Andrew Robb on Vexnews in a story about him buying a car
http://www.vexnews.com/news/10874/brighton-life-liberal-shadow-finance-minister-goes-shopping-for-beautiful-imported-luxury-car/
Plenty is happening in Townsville, there’s all sorts of infrastructure being built. The Local Tories are just trying the old whinge and win theory. Gillard will be funding projects on greatest need not noise from the greatest sooks.
BR
As incredibly painful as this is, Truthy does have a point. I too live in NQ (I’m in Dawson) and it is so true that the majority of Qld’s wealth comes from CQ/NQ. SEQ sucks that wealth for fancy roads to the Gold Coast and big bridges to nowhere, just because the place is being filled up with Victorians. Neither of the two big political parties bothers to address this, then wonder why Bob Katter is popular. To make it worse for those of us in Dawson, both the last (Labor) and the current (LNP) Federal members are just embarassing – neither can string a sentence together and neither were expected to win.
Ah, the maelstrom of Wikipedia. Go on their for a few minutes, just to look up a quick trivial fact about South America. 4 hours later you are, for some reason, reading about Twilight Zone episodes – entirely unsure of how you got there.
We could naturalise the NZ halves
Is Pyne the manless face of the Libs?
BK
Laughing out very loud!
[I think it demeans fat peeps who wear gstrings in low cut jeans
I resemble that remark
Leader of the Faceless men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Commander
BK
I am still laughing!
TSOP
Another things that occurs frequently. You search for information on a health matter, and by the time you finish researching, you have a deadly disease!
Just like the Election – Jule’s Doggies just get over the line
And on that note, victoria, I’m off to bed.
I won’t be around much tomorrow morning as I’m going to be a fire victim at a large CFS training day.
BK
(albeit assisted by the demolition of a nice Bannockburn pinot)…laughing at that one too!
Stop it. He could read that. I live in the same town as him. I can hear his whining from here. If he is especially bemused, the windows shatter…
Frank Calabrese
Yes, the Bulldogs win by less than a goal. Julia was at the game. She would be pleased.
Rudd should have got climate change portfolio as per Comedy Inc skit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDg9d_MOu5E&feature=related
I suggest we invade NZ and make them all our slaves, especially the All Blacks.
BK
Good night. Enjoy being a victim tomorrow!!
Finns
even better
offer em statehood
Tell me about it. Oh, by the way, don’t ever study psychology. By the end of it, you are convinced you have every mental condition known.
Actually Laocoon, I have only had one glass of a modest local red tonight.
Sleep well – don’t think too much about the rugby. At least Julia’s Bulldogs got up in the AFL.
Put ém to work building tunnels in Townsville.
Andrew Robb – Shadow Minister for Obfuscation
I used to live in Townsville – tunnel to where fgs
They play fabulous rugby….in between World Cups.
No need for tunnels, just a new boat ramp for the tinnie!
TSOP
Too true. You start to believe you have issues that need dealing with!
Whatever happened to section 6 of the Australian Constitution
Truthy’s dark heart?
Whenever I need to remind myself that Sky isn’t too bad for political coverage, I turn onto Fox and Friends.
“I find it hard to connect with other people! OMG! I must have Asperger’s!”
“OMG! I wash my hands a lot too! I have OCD!” (conveniently ignoring the dirty laundry on the floor)
Utter crap.
I was in Brissie not too long ago and was amazed at all the bridges, overpasses, freeways and new roads being built. I often wondered where all the money from our mining bonaza up here went to and now I know. QLD needs it’s own royalties for regions program to stop SEQ leeching all our money.
Well, looks like it’s time to arm up and prepare to invade!
It’s one of the advantages of having a voice in Government, Truthy, things get done. Vote for exclusion and nothing and that is what you will get for the next three years.
If the Raiders can hang on to beat the Panthers, we get revenge on the Rugby with the Warriors bowing out of the finals in League.
What about the Tigers and Roosters! What a game! Even the womens put on a good show with the Bulldogs just beating the Swans.
For those Bludgers who do not like sport, I am very very sorry! :neautral:
Parity with the Australian Dollar and lots of Tasmanian chocolate – that should do it.
confessions
fox and friends, Hannity, and Glen Beck have been banned by me
I found that if you want to become mentally unstable just go on a diet of those programs and before long, you become a paranoid angry racist feral!!
1310, I love sport …. but follow the AFL variety
….. The PM must have given the charges a talk at half time 
And Peter, I’m stoked to see him in Education, I’ve got a 12yo and 9yo at home, he will do a wonderful job looking after them over the next 3 years
Didn’t they name one of those bridges The Go Between bridge, after the brilliant Australian band The Go Betweens. An excellent name for what is I am sure, a fine bridge.
juliem
I too love AFL. I daresay Julia would be mighty pleased that the Bullies got over the line.
She may finally be having a pretty relaxed weekend.
victoria:
I find it comedic relief. Jon Stewart, Colbert and Gawker could ply their trades solely on Fox News content!
We don’t have a Fox News, probably why we don’t have a Jon Stewart.
In tribute to our annexation of NZ, we’ll change the southern cross on the flack so that Gacrux and Epsilon Crucis are red. It’ll be in honour of the NZ flag colour scheme, as well as the fact that both of those stars are actually red. (Epsilon Crucis is closer to orange)
Nah Vic, they’re good fun. Especially Beck – it’s like the comedy hour meets crack hour. Beck should wear a smoking jacket, cravat, and large English pipe when he sprouts his craziness – he could call it “crazy story time with Beck”
Julia does it again. Another close finish and another win. Go dogs.
1316. was it my imagination or did Tim put a blond streak in her hair on the left hand side just above the ear and the whole lot slightly lightened as well? She was “different” at the news conference this morning
confessions.
On the other hand, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are compulsory viewing. That is when I see the antics of Fox being displayed and parodied by them. I especially loved Jon Stewarts’ parodies of Glen Beck. They have been genius. They are the sanity to the insanity that is Fox.
on the flag! Dammit, what is with these horrible typos tonight!
i used to watch them as comedy shows. now i just watch Slynews with Britney & friends. at least Britney and friends are topical
steve
As frightening as this is I still find myself siding with Truthy (I keep telling myself tomorrow is Sunday, a rest day). Utter crap steve. For most electorates the local member is irrelevant unless they are a star performer. In NQ we see it time and time again – the wealth gets sucked south never to be seen again. In the meantime we have goat tracks for national highways and we have to beg for any sort of infrastructure. We had a local ALP member during the Rudd/Gillard Govt, and it was just embarassing. Even the promises they kept were scaled back to pocket money.
Be very aware, regions like ours are sick of both sides of politics sucking us dry. And when the next election comes around (it’s a few years Truthy) they will pay once again, if the balance is not redressed.
3 mins to go, can the Raiders hang on
george
Initially, I found Hannity, Beck et al amusing. But no more. It has gotten to a stage that their influence has become nefarious. It is they who are behind propping up The Tea Party. They are influential. They are deliberately assisting in dividing the nation. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that take them very seriously indeed. I no longer find it amusing.
well said victoria, and a great warning for those that trivialise right wing media outlets here.
What was that famous line – “I learnt everything I know from watching Glenn Beck”
Now that is chilling.
Parochial or what, do you work in mining TTH? Does proximity to something make you entitled to it now? Money is distributed according to population density, how else should it be done in a democratic system?
TSOP
As I said earlier on. I am still amazed that half of Australia voted for Abbott and Co. In no small part assisted by repeated messaging by our MSM. I always believed that Australians could smell a rat from a mile away, but yet they were fed a line, and we nearly bought it. The right wing noise cannot be underestimated. This election has been the proof in the pudding.
You might think me mad, but I think their presence is a good thing. They have drawn out the nut jobs (and their financial supporters) and now they’re all out in the open for everyone to see. There out there regardless of Beck, and it’s about time progressive Americans dealt with them and their hateful message. While they expose themselves and their stupid slogan-based illogic, they can be shown up for the crazies they are.
I like this bit of prose taking the “real Americans” to task (just replace the ** with the correct letters: f**thesouth.com
Centre
tonite was the night of certain outcomes
sadly
Jon, we ought to take care of all (regions or cities) along same logic as Labor looking after disadvan. with Medicare, FTB, etc. etc. …… you look after one and all no matter where they are and the more well off sacrifice to bring the less well off back to the center line.
One of my favorite quotes cut and paste from my FB page – I’m not a leftist; I’m where the righteous ought to be. ~M.M. Coady
Cheers, have a good weekend, Julie
Don’t forget a good portion of these people don’t seek out balanced and critical news publications. They rely on A Current Affair, The Herald Sun and brainless twits around the water cooler for their nooos.
Gough got 49.76%
…. bites tongue ….. Jon, nope. Money should be distributed on a needs basis. If we followed your line the many small aboriginal communities in NT, Qld and WA would be worse than they are now.
And is it reasonable to ask for money to upgrade the Peak Downs Highway from Mackay to Australia’s richest coal area in the Bowen Basin because it is one of the most dangerous roads in the country – they are earning those mining dollars for you – over getting people to their holidays on the Sunshine Coast quicker?
… bites tongue again and stops ranting….
nappin, I live in Perth, and prior to that – Melbourne, Sydney and Canberra. Going back to Melbourne at years end for good, no more moving around (hubby in Defence). I hear you loud and clear, some of the city type voters “get the plan”
george
Just looking at the US at present. After Bush and his cronies syphoned the US treasury through its wars and dodgy dealings by banks et al, and giving tax breaks to the rich. Americans find that they are so far behind economically that it may take a generation to recover. The Democrats are getting pummelled and blamed for everything that is impossible to rectify in the short term. and who are getting traction? The Tea Party.
America is in a very precarious situation. On the surface it looks like just a bunch of nut jobs making some noise. That is just a side show to what is really going on behind the scenes.
juliem
nice to see you posting again
did your dad do ok with GM?
victoria:
I’m with george. These outlets de-legitimise genuine conservative political mindset in the same way the tabloids do here. The Bolts, the Blairs, the Ackermans are not conservative, but populist rightwing. They are curiosities rather than leaders of genuine political movements, in the same way Beck and Gretchen whatshername and Doocy are.
juliem – talking of money and Melbourne, I was there the other day and wandered down to Docklands. Other than Etihad I am not sure why that area exists. The shops are never open, the chilling wind tunnels up the river, and the buildings have no soul (some have pretty colours!!). Pick a nice part of Melbourne.
I agree, the difficulty becomes the allocation of pork when the cost for provision of infrastructure relative to population becomes unsustainable. For example roads are upgraded depending for the most part on traffic, how do you devise a fair funding allocation otherwise?
confessions
I doubt you can compare Bolta et al with their American Counterparts. Hannity and Beck organise many rallies for their followers with a great deal of financial backing. I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
And yet it only seemed like last year!
Gus, my father is retired from GM, for their health care plan don’t know what has become of it. Not too close to home, bit of a long story. Parted ways to a large extent with my family in 1998/9 ….. for serious things, I keep in touch and know about it, but his health care plan details no idea …. never heard or read what GM did about that anyways ….
I always read but post infrequently, depends on how other things in life are going at any given time
…..
juliem,
Long time no see here. Hope to see you post more regularly.
Cheers, Scorpio.
confessions@1345
I remember being on IRC with a whole lot of radio nets and the net going REALLY slow – I then listened to a live feed of FireComms which was suddenly interrupted with REM’s The End Of The World” and then they pulled the stream.
1343, I suspect that will be Simon Crean’s new task now. Give the regions X$ and they can spend it how they see fit? Presumably, they will make wise decisions, if not then perhaps the local councils ought to be voted out? Local council in Mt. Isa has more idea about what is needed around town then bureaucrats in Canberra …..
victoria:
Bolt would love to become the next Rush Limbaugh! You saw Albrechtsten’s tweet when she discovered Limbaugh was following her, and Bolt and Blair have been similarly gushing when Limbaugh has linked to them. Whether these people are in the same league is only a matter of population and circulation. And remember that Bolt got serious linkage in the US over his so-called Climategate exposes.
The MO of Beck and co is almost identical to that which Bolt uses. Create poutrage, and scandal, generate notoriety and infamy. The fan base and the revenue follow.
Nappin, I am a Victorian at heart and Melburnian to be specific. “Soul” is relative, depends on where your “heart” is and what you are used to. ‘Nuff said about the buildings in the Docklands
… as for temperatures? If you aren’t used to cold you aren’t used to cold. Can’t change the weather LOL …..
confessions
You reminded me. I forgot about Rush Limballs! He is another oxygen thief!!
juliem
How long have you been away from Melbourne?
Apparantly Townsville will be one of the first places to get NBN.
I’m still waiting however…
As well as an Oxycontin thief!
TSOP
Touche’
Scorpio, I would love to and will when time permits.
confessions@1350
Ahh Rush – who was a Top 40 DJ as Jeff Christie – sort of like John Laws and Bob Francis and their ilk.
Predict Kyle Sandilands to becaome a Liberal Shock Jock once he becomes too old to appeal to teens.
Truthy
i think you still havent found what you’re looking for
juliem – lived in Tassie for many years and still own a wonderful part of it at the base of Mt Roland – I know what cold is.
Admission – many, many moons ago I was born in Melbourne. Grew up in Qld though, so that’s the temperature of my blood.
My beef is not with Melbourne, it’s with SEQ. I am a North Queenslander, so that’s in my blood as well. Simon Crean may make a difference – he is one of those politicians that can make a difference. I hope he does.
1353 …… Born in the USA, married an Aussie in 1996. Lived in the US first 8 years we were married (I came into this relationship with minor children from a previous relationship, custody issues). Naturalized Aussie January 2007 and gave up US citizenship June 2009.
Came back to Oz Dec. 2004. Hubby born and raised in Melbourne, that was where we set up shop. Sydney from March 2006 to December 2007. Canberra calendar year 2008. Perth since January 2009.
Not been resident in Melbourne since March 2006 …. too long too long
TOT
but i was discussing bradfield with some peeps and how the snowy scheme was meant as a pilot scheme- two of em had dads who worked on the scheme-they thought it was one of 5 locations
ie we were to replicate it up the east coast
just saying
juliem
What an interesting journey you have had! I am sure Melbourne has room for you whenever you decide to return!!
Frank
Kyle interviewed TA during the campaign. Didn’t hear it as I live in Brisbane. From reports he said wwte I know you love God,and hate gay people, What else do we need to know about you? I thought this was typical Kyle. Did anybody happen to hear this.
1363, thanks much, will be setting up shop in Sunbury to be specific ….
Scorpio et. al, heading to bed …..
Julia was interviewed in the Bullies changerooms after the game. She was asked by commentator Steve Quartermain if Barry Hall could have helped speed up the negotiations with the indies. He may have been convincing. Was a nice light hearted interview. Unlike the crap she gets from Noos journos.
Victoria
I’m waiting up to watch the end of the AFL, as it didn’t start in Brisbane until 8.30pm I thought she may be interviewed. She has a great sense of humour. I watched the game on Main event, so already know the score, but want to see her interview. One classy lady.
blackdog
I was under the impression that if the game was interstate, it would be shown live in other states. Obviously this is not the case?
i am sick and tired of the 911 carry-ons.
Victoria
If you don’t have pay TV here, you never get to see any of the night AFL games live. During the season channel 7 on Friday night will show the game about 11.30pm , but channel ten have the Saturday night game usually at 7.30pm. Last night channel 7 had the game on at 9.30pm and tonight channel 10 started at 8.30pm. You should see the complaints in the CM. They should be extremely bad this week as Collingwood/Geelong on Friday won’t be live.
blackdog
I know AFL is not as popular in Qld as elsewhere, but I did not realise that games would be shown so late.
7/11 has a new competitor?
Victoria
It is very disappointing, especially when they are trying to promote the game. They usually don’t want to run the games against the Rugby league, but then they only show repeats of movies that have been on so many times before. The Lions get around 30,000 people to their games, but channel 7 especially don’t help at all.
Yeah, for the most part they were silly movies. Was unaware that so many were made though…
blackdog
You make a very good point. If the AFL are trying to promote the game in Qld, this is not a very good way to go about it. In fact, I would say quite a silly strategy.
Gus, what would they do next year with the 10th Anniversary of 911. What about 318? Breakfast At Tiffany.
[Operation Menu was the codename of a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970, during the Vietnam War leading to the destruction of over 1,000 towns and villages, the displacement of 2,000,000, and the deaths of over 700,000 to 1,000,000[2] Cambodians. The supposed targets of these attacks were sanctuaries and Base Areas of the People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) and forces of the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (NLF or derogatively, Viet Cong), which utilized them for resupply, training, and resting between campaigns across the border in the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam).
The campaign failed in its objective of preventing North Vietnamese offensives, which continued during Operation Menu. It also enraged the Cambodian public and helped to create a climate that allowed the Khmer Rouge to come to power.]
Victoria
I hope channel 7 lose their rights when they come around again, they don’t deserve them the way they treat Qld and NSW. Get really cranky when on Sunday you want to watch the game you would get, but instead they couldn’t be bothered and take Foxtel’s coverage and stick their puppets in before and at the breaks to pretend .
Sure, how do you assess need is the question? What is the criteria for instance and is living in a region a qualification? Roads are typically allocated funding based on traffic and accidents, many people commute daily from the sunshine coast to Brisbane and the Gympie section of the Bruce is the most dangerous stretch of road in QLD.
Incidentally I grew in in FNQ and I do understand that services are harder to access in the regions, but I think the NQ vs SEQ thing is simplistic.
Finns
and the US denied it ever happened
Until the photos came out
TSOP
Very funny. They were silly movies, but got a few laughs.
george 1332
I agree. In the USA the Oklahoma bombing in 1995 sort of coincided with the real “explosion” of the internet. This has enabled many strange groups to communicate and promote themselves, but their on-line presence actually helps the police etc.
I think it is great to see things out in the open, like the Tea Party. Their recent “march” at Washington on the anniversary of the Martin Luther King “I have a dream” speech was somewhat surreal – the oppressed majority complaining about what exactly?
It reminds me of the 1998 Queensland election – as a one-time Queenslander the possibility of a Liberal-National-OneNation coalition government was pretty tough to contemplate, but part of me sort of wanted it to happen, just to show Australia what would happen if ON was a part of government. (It didn’t, thanks to conservative independent Peter Wellington who backed Labor, and has held his seat comfortably at every successive election despite the threats and dire predictions of the media and conservative parties)
Gus, like Nessie? i saw the photo of Nessie
blackdog
Even in Melbourne, Channel 7 has not been up to standard. Many share your sentiments that they should lose the rights next time around. Will be interesting to see what happens in that regard.
On that note, I bid all a good night
Truthy,
At least your getting the NBN early, us others will be waiting on years before they beef up workforce till full speed ahead.
Finns
i have seen wilfred B’s photo’s
some are still deemed classified in the good ole US of A
Gus, we need more BIG forwards for the Wobblebys.
Finns
sadly I am not available
Gus, me too. what about Diog?
Finns
I have been trying for awhile now to get him into the kiwi’s as team doctor
Once he is there we will win every game
The Reason the AFL don’t get much cover in NSW and QLD is it get beaten very badly by Rugby League on FTA TV and Pay,Seven would be happy to lose the rights in NSW and QLD,as would 10 it would mean they would be able to show some that might get a bigger audience.
I live in Perth I want to watch Rugby League I have pay, if you don’t like it move to Melbourne,AFL in the Northern States is propped up by the AFL to the tune of god knows what with 2 new teams it will cost them more why I have no idea.
I assume when they have dropped a couple of hundred million they will get the message,though given the size of Vlads ego he might manage to send a few Melbourne club bust first
John R
the NBN will change sport in Oz for ever
the AFL aint silly
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/11/3009229.htm?section=justin
Gus, i was thinking that Diog could perform plastic surgery on our Wobblebys so they will look more like the Kiwis, and at least scare the shit out of the Springboks, Poms etc.
Finns
my idea was for Dio to make the kiwis all look like prissy
then we would have a chance
Is gorgeous Kate pregnant?
[The outer ministry] – Do they wait outside the room while the Cabinet meets?
[Parliamentary Secretaries] – And they make coffee and serve scorns?
they dont hear the secrets
they sort out the accomodation
Gus, i am waiting for the OH to finish her hair blowing, what’s your excuse?
Finns
I have to take some yucky milkshake
too bad it dont include milk
Gus, it looks like you and me against the world, bur where TF is the world?
Finns
sadly the world is not enough
1400
Around.
Too much idle speculation – insufficient power prediction. My $10 says we get 3 years of real open honest government. Agreed?
By the way, in the build up to the big event the Wallabies were superb tonight against the cheats. They are now panicking – yet again – in NZ about the World Cup. We have them rattled and ripe. :lol
Gus, the OH has finished whatever she was doing. it’s time to rock and roll into the dream world.
jaundiced, I hope your $10 is on the right horse. I think the outlook is difficult to predict.
I can see an Opposition that has everything to gain by fomenting disruption and contention, but which is aging, internally divided along party lines, fundamentally short of ideas as well as personnel, and which stands for not much more than a doctrinal and tribal reflex resistance to Labor.
I can see three Independents who have a lot riding on a successful and long-lived Parliament. I can see a Government that has to rebuild its fortunes in WA and QLD and which needs time to do this. I can see the Greens hunting for votes from both sides of the divide. Everything will depend on whether the forces that comprise the Majority can all optimise their prospects by working together or whether they end up competing for ascendancy. This will be a real test of their inter-personal relations and political skills.
There is a lot of scope for achievement, but also a lot of potential for things to unravel.
briefly
Isn’t it wonderful to consider these unusual elements that you have so well brought together? One of the subscripts in what you have described is the additional pressure on fewer people than is usual in the House. What power the party whips? Who is Wilkie’s whip? It goes on. I love it. The real pressure is behind the scenes within the two majors. Can they keep every single MP in the tent?
It’s all good though. There is no downside going forward, as they say in the boardrooms.
How can this possibly be justified?: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/elite-private-schools-rake-in-profits-20100911-1561o.html
Public monies appearing in private school balance sheets as Profit”.
they didnt even spend it. Its just “profit”. Straight from taxpayers pockets.
Did it make them more affordable? No. they raised their fees.
Embezzlers. This organizations are simply embezzlers.
Its time to shut down this scam.
lefty e
Yep. I pointed it out, yet again, about 24 hours ago. Gillard’s lasting toxic legacy. Or one of them if you include the Arbibistas. Will Garrett fix it? *Cough*
Just watching my favourite guitarist David Gilmour on You Tube. I challenge anyone who likes theatre, music, or anything involving artistic talent to dislike this performance at the Royal Albert Hall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwht3dDPL_Q&feature=related
Then see the related songs. Beautiful.
The obscene funding of elite private schools is a fight that must occur. It is the biggest beef I have with Julia. Does any one know the stance of the undies and Wilkie on this one?
Gweneth@1411
all I’ll say is remember what happened to the last ALP Leader who fought on this issue.
His name was M Latham – and we all know what happened there.
Oh and read a few private school newsletters online – they lay down the laws about funding as an election issue. One example:
http://www.merici.act.edu.au/parents/downloads/National_CEC_election_commitment_from_Political_parties_for_2010_election.pdf
Gweneth@1411
Oakeshott has a handle on it I think, but we need to know more about all the indies’ understanding of the distinction between lots of money for education and the legacy of JWH rorting the public systems. If Labor continues the Gillard path on schools she is kfracked, and rightly so.
I also remember Latham – and remember some polling that said that the backlash was a media beat up and in fact people were not as unhappy with his plan as everyone said. 70% of parents send their kids to public schools. The numbers didn’t add up to me either. I also think it is about how you sell it – did you see the Chaser skit where they went to a public school and stood at the gates with tins to collect money so that Kings could have a new rifle range (or something similar?)
Simple argument – why spend tax money where it patently isn’t needed?
You are a faint milksop Frank. You trade in fear.
Anyway, my son says I should go to bed now. This parenting business has knobs on it
Ciao
As I understood it, Labor was working on a tactic to gradually improve the funding of more needy schools and allowing the richer ones to gradually fall back by effectively letting their funding stall over time.
That’s how I remember it. It’s certainly going to take time and a certain amount of subterfuge to correct the Howard rorts – and I’d love to see any good ideas on how this can be done without getting the privileged and the “aspirationals” up in arms.
jaundiced view@1415
I trade in political REALITY – try it sometimes – You go the way you are heading and you WILL get an Abbott Majority.
It shows just how powerful the christian lobby is when even Penny won’t stand up for gay marriage. Its about time our so called journalists earned their wages and started investigating the methods by which the extremists win undue influence over Parliamentarians.
Um.. what the hell are you two arguing over?
Frank for those who understand th forrmuli , coag’s and agreements , they’d find j/v’s ignoranse on education public polisy alarming , but we know with j/v its par for th couse
Let him wallow
Kevin/Julia were quite clever with BER but , with that in mind
cud chewer@1417
I know, but the more up their arms we get, the better. They understand nothing. The power of the less priveliged shuold be on the flag of any decent government. Focus groups and letters to the papers gave us more money for private schools. I say kfrackem. Is Garrett up to it?
By the way where’s Adam?
If you really believed that you would have said something about ‘trading in fear’ long ago.
Anyway I’m not arguing the toss with you, last time I heard anyone use milksop as a term of criticism was not long enough ago.
grey
grey
Listen to (and watch) the music. That will ensure a framework of political understanding for the next 3 years- i.e. High Hopes.
Great theatre. Great music. Great guitarist. Great Hopes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwht3dDPL_Q&feature=related
When the great gig in the sky happens for me, I want to be elsewhere.
yeah, with music, on a boat.
Disabilities area
earlier a few , forgot who , queried what happened to disability that Bill shorten did handle as a Sec , and did so well
It is under Jenny Macklin , and she’s got 2 Parly Sec’s Jan McLucas & Julie Collins , and one of them is to be allocated it Julia has left it to Jenny to decide which one seeing her total job responsible is wide scope with families, housing, comunity services & Aboriginee affairs to divide between those 2 Sec’s
Too late r/Ron, Mr Shorten is exposed. A small man with a very little agenda.
Disabilities-R-Us”. Franchises are available. See Bill Shorten.
And lots of dolphins.
Goodnight people, last post.Alarm set for insiders.
Insiders will all agree that a hung parliament is the best thing since RSVP with Photoshop
oh gawd.. as if insiders is worth waking up early for anymore…
Other thingo with so many changes is to see who actualy got promoted and there fit , seeing alot sort of moved horozontal like
before announcement Chris Bowen was MSN story for finance that i said then i opposed for reasons then stated incl needing to be a Dr NO whereas Penny will be fine there
For mine most obvous uppers up ladder is Penny (and well deserved) , feel her only weakness of not being a razzle dazzle spruiker is not vip in finance
Criag Emmerson also went up th tree with Trade , well qual for it too , and gets into inner sanctum this term
Bill Shorten another winner , good on him done outstanding job in disability , and now gets into finance area of govt
Clare has made a slite movement up chains , but given his youth and obvous ability even better days ahead for him
Finally th very talented Greg Combet also gets a cabinet coloured gurnsy for first time with CC Ibgelieve he’ll both negotiate well here with all stake holders in Industry & workers but still may get no where espec with th Greens & Undys , and anyway irrespective prosecute Labors CC case
Great selections overall by Julia and all very deserving , except one I supoose am allowed to hav a Q on Perhaps don farrell is a tad old to me to be a new comer , but sometimes balansing genders and States and ability is a cross word , and Farrell coming from SA th water bit of his Sec role is sensitive down there ways
http://www.abc.net.au/classic/weekendafternoons/operashow.htm
Music to one’s ear.
Ron,
Justify it however you like. Applaud the good people. That’s fine.
However, the plotters did nicely out of it. Julia has sent a very bad message. I am disappointed that she should have done so, when she had the best opportunity ever of stamping her own authority over the government. Having won the election, her moral authority will never be as high again, as it currently is.
After all the talking, the spoils go to …
So Feeney got a parliamentary secretary position and Arbib and Shorten got minor promotions. Big whoop. It’s not as if any of them went to cabinet.
Latham mishandled school funding issue as badly as Rudd the mining. Both dramatised for supposed political gain issues that needed to be done carefully and gradually – both put issues which were important back years (hopefully not too much for mining). Latham brought issue up during election campaign I think
The Dr is in, greetings to fellow early birds or left-over night owls!
Here’s some background on likely new Victorian DLP Senator John Madigan.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/redleather-day-for-the-dlp-20100911-15629.html
Morning Doc, if you ever want to become a Victorian Senator this is how it is done according to the preceeding link.
Morning Steve
Not being victorian might block my senate bid however
No Doc when it comes to the last place on the Victorian Senate ticket obscure and unaccustomed to the spotlight of Melbourne is a serious advantage. You seem to qualify.
Are you calling me obsure?
I am an Adelaidean & loving that town of Boganvillia
What’s been on the agenda of discussion overnight I haven’t caught up as I am reading for classes this morning
Move to Victoria immediately,Doc. If you can set up a loud speaker on your car and get support from 2.3% of the population – that would be plenty of support. Not much effort for a huge pay increase.
Well family first nearly stole a senate seat here so there are prospects here in home town. Must read for class!
what is the pay rate anway?
hey hey hey. See I missed out on a partisan pissing match last night.
And apparently mean old wabor are evil and crooked because the evil faceless men (all of whom can be indentified by both name and face) that helped get Julia elected (also helped get Rudd elected, but we ignore that bit) have been given all important parliamentary secretary and outer ministry positions!
Morning TSOP yes I noticed the “promotions”
I mean Mark Arbib might as well be running the country, considering the powerful position he has been appointed to.
I guess politics is a cynical game. I mean many young Australians like to believe they could grow up and one day reach the pinnacle of political power: Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Development, Minister for Sport, Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness but it’s really just for the hacks, isn’t it…
Morning Dr B and others. Dr B just sent you an email. Was flat out yesterday with worldly matters.
Yes….those promotions.
Doc,I’ve found a great new way for you to deliver your info to your class today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/video/video_3012.html?1284057345
#1452
“Politics is a cynical game”
nooooo you shock me TSOP
Don’t worry. It shocked me at first.
I was reading the newspaper over a breakfast of eggs and toast when I commented that the newspaper was taking a rather cynical approach to the very people who run our country, when my dear wife retorted with the astute observation that “politics is cynical”
Completely blew my world view right then and there. Up become down, left became right, black became… not so black. Most important day of my life!
“A time to shine”
September 12, 2010
“Despite its many dangers, minority rule could bring out the best in Julia Gillard …”
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/a-time-to-shine-20100911-155y6.html
Strange, isn’t it?
Tony Abbott lavishly rewarded those who put him in the OL seat almost immediately – the divine Sophie got promoted to Shadow Cabinet, for example – and I didn’t see any suggestion in the msm or elsewhere that this was inappropriate, despite the fact that they had not only knifed their leader, but reneged on an agreement made between their party and the government and a commitment made to the Australian people at the previous election.
Julia gives modest promotions (and, given the experience of the people involved, there’s an argument that these were on merit), months after the event, and it’s banner headline news.
I can understand the msm carrying on like cut snakes, but I thought that one of our self appointed tasks here was not to let them get away with hypocritical stances like this?
TSOP
I nearly swallowed my egg
Buenos días Senorita, where were you when Gus and I were fighting the world. In Boganville?
I was either asleep – getting fit to fight or reading for my class tomorrow (on Marxism ie laying the ground work for fighting)
Standing for nothing you almost lost government, still to scared to stand for anything so your going to stand for nothing again, great plan, you might lose next time. Spineless bastards.
Fortunately it won’t matter much when the new one comes into action, but I wonder which would actually be worse in a tight Senate like the one that we will have until July. Having “the balance” in the hands of Family First or the DLP?
Zoomster
I’ll never use that adjective again!
i hope the symbolism of julia s footy team was not lost on your all
5. points.
I couldn’t agree more on schools, unis also have been increasingly privatised, poor subsidising the better off – now that sucks
Off to weed for a few minutes
honestly the people in the street dont know any of this understand it or care neither we should, we are here to support Julia. time to stop broadcasting the above to the world, this site has many hits.
karma below this has made my weekend.
a sydney team v the pm melbourne team 5 points. …
another thing may be you all read the msm to much, millions dont read it at all
Morning My say
Now Grog is being blamed for the political deadlock happening.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/on-the-road-to-nowhere-20100910-15512.html
Hagen, it’s not only about parties but personalities. Fielding was a volatile individual who reacted emotionally and didn’t have the mental capacity required to hold balance of power. It would’ve been a different 3 years with a different Family First senator there for instance. Can’t say yet whether Madigan will be more suited than Fielding, but it’d be hard to be worse.
Good Morning, Bludgers
What better was to start Sunday than with a conversation between David Attenborough and Richard Dawkins on the meaning of life and the nature of things:
Of mind and matter: David Attenborough meets Richard Dawkins We paired up Britain’s most celebrated scientists to chat about the big issues: the unity of life, ethics, energy, Handel – and the joy of riding a snowmobile
Wonderfully eclectic, full of non-linear mental “quantum leaps”. Here’s a sample:
One to file away for “what’s the use; why keep going” times. Enjoy.
[1470 steve
Posted Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 8:12 am | Permalink
Now Grog is being blamed for the political deadlock happening.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/on-the-road-to-nowhere-20100910-15512.html
what did shakespere say about protesting.
we have made it, any advertising they say dont they grog for australian of the year i say.
[Now Grog is being blamed for the political deadlock happening.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/on-the-road-to-nowhere-20100910-15512.html
Tony Wright, argualbly the most boring person to listen to on radio, laments the absence of info from the pollies on the campaign trail. He basically says the journos have to write SOMETHING from the scraps they are given.
Well, the answer is – no, they don’t. If the scribes refused to write anything other than the fact that the pollies refused policy explanation or scrutiny the resultant lack of “oxygen” would drive the pollies mad.
My Say, those pesky South Australian keep moving the goalposts of the known universe.
steve
We have a sense of duty.
What have us pesky SA bogans done now?
It has been settled Labor policy since the 1960′s – since Gough Whitlam became leader – that the Commonwealth will make grants to private schools. The scale of grant varies with the income of the families sending children to each school. The grant to Scotch college appears to be about $2,600 per student per year, or about $15.00 per student per school day. I imagine this would be one of the lowest grants made, reflecting the high income profile of the school’s intake.
In WA, about 50% of all High School students are enrolled at Non-Government schools. The private education sector is a fact of life, in the same way that private health services are a permanent part of the health system.
Instead of trying to undo more than 50 years of funding policy in relation to private education, effort should be going into substantially improving the capital and recurrent funding that go to state schools, into pre-school and early childhood learning, tertiary education and into adult education.
The funding of private schools is just one part of a big picture and far too much is made of the supposed injustice being perpetrated. Parents of children enrolled at private schools are taxpayers and have a strong expectation that some public funding will be directed to their schools. Latham showed just how sensitive voters are to the suggestion that the Commonwealth may reduce the grants made to the schools to which they send their children.
The one thing you can say about the current situation is the funds go directly to the schools, rather than as tax credits or grants to the parents of students. At least this ensures the funding is visible and can be compared between schools over time.
One final point, there seems to be an objection to schools running their budgets in the black. What is the alternative? Run them in the red? These institutions, whether publicly run or privately run, have to operate in the black. Like any other organisation, if they don’t stay in the black most of the time, then eventually insolvency and collapse will await them.
Luckily, Labor do not seem to want to pick a pointless fight with half the parents in the country, giving them one less headache to deal with and the opportunity to put Commonwealth money into public education services of all kinds.
Alternative headlines for Wright’s article:
Media admits not up to the job
Media can’t keep up with new technology
Media out of touch with voters
Media can’t adjust to changing strategies
Only rookies and incompetent on election trail
Er. Surely the speed of modern technology should work to journo’s advantage? The second they receive the media release, bang it goes through to those more experienced and savvy journos back at HQ, who can then tweet/text questions to ask back instantaneously.
Hell, those pundits at HQ can even watch the pressers in real time and feed questions through to their minions.
As indicated by my suggested headlines above, Wright basically says that they don’t bother sending the good journos out on the campaign trail, which simply confirms what grog – and many of us here – have been saying all along.
Signing off for the morning. I’m off to act as a cadaver or burn victim at a big CFS training day.
Enjoy Julia on The Insiders.
Who was on Meet the Press?
Albo was on Meet the Press saying appointments were on merit and we are only dealing with the parliament the voters gave us so get used to it.
Perhaps Gary Morgan is unaware of research findings about the plasticity of memory. It is well within the bounds of possibility that some people genuinely, sincerely, and honestly remember voting Labor even though in fact they voted Coalition–just because Labor ended up the winner.
Off to tidy up and paint a couple of family graves
Wow, really stuffed up predicting those ministerial allocations! I guess that confirms I cant think like an ALP leader. Congrats to those predicting Smith for Defence and did I see some suggesting Wong for Finance??? I get the impression some of you are insiders, how did you pick that one? Not that she isnt bright, but does she have any background or track record in this? Given the economic storm brewing Finance would seem to be quite an important portfolio.
Agree with Jason Clare but other promotions look very much like payback surely. Do those predicting all sunshine and light want to recant now that the plotters have their pieces of silver? At least none of them are at the Cabinet table- would have loved to be a fly on the wall for Cabinet meetings had that been the case! How can there be no room for Mike Kelly to get a promotion, but there is room for Sen Feeney!
AND if an obscure (sorry, grog) blogger had that much impact on the journos, prompting this kind of soul searching, you have to assume it’s because what he said touched a nerve.
It’s not like they handed around the post details because it made them split their sides laughing at its ignorance. The media obviously recognised the description because it fitted.
There’s also the old media double standard at work here. I’ve done (sorry, pretentious moi) dozens of media interviews, off the cuff, over ten years now. I’ve never had one where I could have said “Sorry, I’ve only just got the media release, so I can’t answer that question” or “Sorry, that’s a pretty obscure bit of policy, I’m not really up to speed on that” and I’d have been let off.
In fact, quite the opposite – I’ve had journos openly sneer at me for not knowing some obscure aspect of a policy announcement which had nothing to do with my electorate (e.g. not knowing the state of the Pacific Hwy above Newcastle, when the electorate I was campaigning in was in Victoria).
If very obscure pollies are expected to be across every policy detail in a very short time frame, then it’s not too much to expect that journos – especially those who style themselves ‘political reporters’ – should be able to do the same.
And while I’m on this, the idea that having access to leaders leads to better political reporting (as inferred by this article) is also tosh. The silliest piece of journalistic opinion I ever heard came from a Victorian reporter whose job it was to follow Kennett around.
His exclusive concentration on Kennett meant that he was out of touch with community feeling – he regarded Kennett as a mate and a hero and couldn’t see any flaws in him at all.
The talkback calls woke him up a bit!
Briefly, you have been sucked into the trap that has been perpetuated by governments over the last 20 years and turned into an art form by the Howard years, i.e. instead of every child having access to a high quality, free and inclusive education,the education has been made into a commodity that can be bought by the highest bidder.
This neatly fitted with Howard’s Aspirational’s because it was an easy idea to sell to the electorate: that ‘if you work hard and get ahead you have a right to seek out the best education you can for your little aspirationals’.
Problem is , that commodifies education and in the process we have the obscenely inequitable system of Federal education funding that has just been extended by another year!
At least with the ALP nominally in government, they have the commitment to review this funding and there is a chance of restoring balance and equity to all students regardless of choice of school.
Sadly however, the elephant in the room is that parents want to have their child educated away from the ‘bogans’ (sorry Dr. Bogan) and while ever funds are kept away from public schools, this trend will not not abate. Howard knew this and widely discredited SES funding model has just served to make the differences between public schools and private/religious schools wider. And so the elephant gets larger.
ltep, how could you have forgotten the last Senator of the same religious/ “moral” right persuasion though he stood as an Independent; Tasmania’s Senator Brain Harradine
Although his stance on some social issues, especially those affecting the more socially disadvantaged (eg the GST) won him widespread praise, his Catholic Action “moral” agenda makes Tony Abbot’s look liberal, and his legacy of trading his vote for implementation of his rigidly religious right “moral” agenda – inc the Wik Legislation
Re funding private schools,
Like picking conspicuous fights with big dirt, playing class warfare is why they got into trouble IMHO, grandstanding instead of just getting on with it.
Cassidy nit-picking
Morning all.
Heh, Jools slaps Sky News: “journalists endlessly interviewing journalists, politicians no longer requried.”
Good one Jools! Whack, whack … take that News Ltd, Sly News. Whack. And another biff for luck … great!
She went pretty softly softly on News really.
I agree Jon. Are there votes to be won in pursuing a politics of envy and resentment? No. None. Has this been accepted inside the ALP? Yes, since the 1960′s, for the most part.
Does this prevent Labor committing resources to the public sector? Not at all. Not one bit. By no means. In no way. Never.
May I amend that to … “Good one Prime Minister of Australia …”
Scringler
Are you able to summarise Julia’s interview with Cassidy? I missed it.
By the way Front page of the Herald Scum. Lovely picture of our PM surrounded by happy bulldog supporters. A really nice picture.
While everyone’s pointing out the ‘plotters’ being rewarded, nobody’s mentioned Rudd supporters like Emerson were also promoted. I was pleased that Henderson made that observation.
Insiders is repeated on 24 at night I believe
Julia’s had an amazing go at the press, editorialising need to report thanks media personalities act as if involved rather than reporting, journalists interviewing journos love it go you good thing crikey mentions ethics I’m loving this one, suck sky, suck Murdoch wow!
Yes Cassidy can’t find a meaningful angle now he & other journos have been put in their place!
Dennis Atkins admits on insiders that newspapers sometimes campaign
She said she likes to read accurrate news reports or wtte of. Sublte, but to the point.
Dr Bogan
Thanks for the commentary re Insiders. I will attempt to see it either on line when it is posted or ABC 24.
wtte? what’s that phrase?
Now attacking Undies on insiders pathetic!
wtte = words to the effect
jig34
wtte = words to that effect
Well blow me down with a feather- the herald scum approves of Gillard’s ministry with a My Way headline, positive coverage and a very positive editorial. Just plain weird
Andrew
Did you notice the front page picture. The Herald knows which way its bread is buttered!
yes victoria, a great picture. one who think the herald sun is biased towards Labor today!!
victoria
He seemed to be nit-picking, usual stuff … Arbid, appointments … best bit was the stuff about bias in the media. It allowed Ms Gillard to politely smack the Oz and Sky News.
Let me outline a little of that commodification: the growth of elitism in what had been working/ professional middle class “public schools”, and why, after c1800, even poor parents would go to great lengths to buy children (until C20, mainly sons) a place among the rich, socially elite and powerful.
After England’s civil wars “died” during the 7 Years’ War 1756-63), the aristocracy flooded into Public Schools which, like Oxbridge, were, since the Middle Ages, domains of able middle class +poor “charity” scholars (and some upper class younger sons bound for the clergy). London’s Harrow, Rugby, Eton, Charterhouse, Merchant Tailors and provincial equivalents had been urban Guildsman strongholds (Christ’s Hospital, for the clergy’s sons). “Aristocrification” meant, for the first time, schoolboy sons of “cits” (city men) could forge valuable friendships & social connections with “The Upper Ten Thousand”.
This period also saw the Industrial Revolution’s initial impact and resulting very rich Industrial Magnates, many of whom had been poor, with little formal education (eg Charles Darwin’s maternal grandfather, Josiah Wedgwood). Sons’ climb up the social ladder began with a good education. Not that many sons (inc Wedgwood’s) wanted it; but they were the last generation of that mind.
Schooling with “the right” people at “the right school” was in its heyday when Oz’s first GPS (Great Public Schools) with their boarding facilities were established. Oddly, in Oz, the earliest State high schools were included: Brisbane State High, Fort Street Boys High etc. Oz’s religious climate ensured even small cities sprouted multiple GPSs: Anglican, multiple Catholic (run by several religious orders), Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran as well as Grammars. Oz’s “right schools” were not as socially elite (toffs went “home” to England), but there were more of them and they were cheaper.
Interestingly, commodified elitism has been more socially important in Vic, SA, NSW (but to a lesser extent, probably because Fort Street was the top “scholars” school); but not so much in Qld (esp after public exams ended 1972); poss because of the state’s size, decentralisation, isolation (inc probs with travel in early years).
Scringler.
Thanks. As I mentioned earlier, will try and see it when it is posted online. I always have to run errands around that time, and seem to miss it lately.
Considering the faction Convenors helped avert what was looming as a complete electoral catastrophe for Labor, and they have been pilloried every day since, I think it is time to give it a rest.
The brains-trust that ran the campaign, on the other hand, need to be replaced….or was one of them the PM? Who knows!
Politics is a very messy business when viewed in the peace of a Sunday morning with muted rain still falling.
Fielding is from the same religious right. He is also brainless.
briefly
however many times something is reflected upon, a different perspective can be reached. My own perspective tells me that whatever decisions taken by Labor were necessary. Labor would view this outcome as a great success.
Henderson was his usual ponderous self on Insiders, but at least he had the grace to “approve” the ministerial appointments.
victoria, I am with you on this. The present situation is not great by any means, but it is a lot better than the likely alternative, which was crashing defeat. I think Labor MP’s are just plain relieved.
I have to say I’m looking forward to parliament sitting. I can’t wait to see the unhinged antics of the opposition.
Bracksy in the frame to conduct a review of the Labor campaign
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/insiders-tip-bracks-as-labors-mr-fixit-20100911-15628.html
Interestingly, the article also speculates on the centre of power in the Labor party moving away from NSW to Victoria
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/insiders-tip-bracks-as-labors-mr-fixit-20100911-15628.html
madcyril:
A shift to Victoria and the less rabid, more balanced Labor types there would be a good outcome. NSW Labor needs time to find its way again.
Are you some sort of masochist?
Ah. The base of NSW v Vic political power has shifted back to Melbourne! From my Qld outsider viewpoint, Vic’s the one with the biggest emotional investment in interstate rivalry; has been since the earliest Federation talk. Vics it was who wanted a DC-like capital. Knowing that means understanding the impact of Howard’s Kirribilly House not The Lodge slap-in-the-face.
Pity there was no Vic poll on how Abbott’s obvious preference for KH changed Vics’ votes!
I am a glutton for all kinds of thing!
Gee, the MSM are still harping on about Rudd becoming Foreign Minister – actually the least surprising of Julia’s announcements yesterday.
And……..Psephos is now working for a parliamentary secretary.
OzPolTragic
We Victorians do not have an inferiority complex.
briefly – the injustice is that the money is not even fairly allocated among private schools. there are private schools, often the only school in an area that have to make do with de-mountables and substandard equipment while we give public money to kings college to build another swimming complex or equestrian programme. if we are going to give money to private schools, the poorest schools should get the most and, in fact they should get all the spending. how many sports grounds does a school need? rich private schools increase fees, year on year, they contribute to society in a very limited fashion and still they take taxpayer money. it’s wrong. this is quite apart from the fact that in the oecd we rank third lowest out of 28 on public school spending and 4th highest for private schools. that’s a ridiculous waste.
let me give you a comparison. i grew up in many countries, some of them were ‘third-world’ countries. i can tell you now that the idea of de-mountable classrooms would be absolutely scandalous in all of the places i went to school, absolutely unthinkable as govt. policy. further, education, was seen as an opportunity, not a right. i went to one of the top 50 ranked private schools (by results in an international curriculum) and we were required to do 6-12 hours of community service a week, more depending on which service you wound up doing. it was not optional. looking at the private schools in australia, like brisbane boys college, i don’t see any culture i’d want my son to imbibe in. though we were lucky to be privileged, our school showed us how privileged we were and that we had a duty to give back to the people who weren’t lucky enough to have it. we don’t have that culture at elite private schools in australia.
now, when someone threatens the elite private schools’ govt. money iv line, they pick up the phone, ring an old-boy journo and shazam! headlines like ‘latham’s school hit list’. mugs read this and think, ‘when my middle class job magically gives me enough money to afford the fees to send my kids to kings college, i want the fees to be low!’ typically forgetting the dire circumstances of the school their child is currently going to.
I agree Vic. We just know we’re better
george
Exactly!
victoria, we have a superiority complex. Well I do anyway
madcyril
Good one.
Only if you’re a LibNat supporter. And even more fun if Abbott & co have only 30 secs for a Q in QT. It will have to be “scripted and rehearsed”; otherwise most time will go in his usual stammering & squirming when lying through his teeth!
OzPolTragic
Where could Victoria’s version of Kirribili House be?
Excellent and very Prime Ministerial slapdown of the media. Referencing journos interviewing journos during an Insiders interview was priceless.
Crabb gets worse with her pathetic attempts at humor but couldn’t match Henderson’s hilarious rant about Oakeshott bringing financial markets to a halt for 17 minutes. At least I think he was joking.
Victoria and Briefly
I would disagree on the election being thought by Labor as a success. They would be thanking their lucky stars that they scrapped in.
I say move on but find out honestly what it was that went wrong and then don’t bloody do it again.
dogma
A success in terms of what the other option was, a complete whitewash.
If you thought the Liberal petulance during 2007-2010 was bad enough, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
I’m looking forward to the first sessions of parliament, and the imminent meltdowns from the Conservative sore losers.
How about Como House
OzPol:
At least there’s no more Tuckey to fling PoOs from the backbench!
But I think whoever is Speaker will have their hands full with the opposition and these new rules.
evan14
My only hope is that Labor are fully prepared for the onslaught. They need to make sure all the “i”s are dotted and the “t”s crossed. The coalition will not give them a solitary inch.
Er…Ozpol…those issues had no impact on the Victorian vote.
The simple explanation is that ‘the ALP can’t manage money’ ‘the ALP is a shambles’ are lines that resonate in states like QLD & NSW with their notorious state govt problems. They don’t resonate in Victoria where we’ve enjoyed an economically sound Labor government which also delivers high quality services on the ground.
The vote recorded for federal Labor in Victoria is remarkably similar to the polling for Labor at a state level.
victoria and evan:
Who would you like to see as Speaker?
george
I thought Como House was haunted?! Would be good if it could scare the Rabbott off.
Lol!
I’m none the wiser about where Higher Ed is going. If it goes to Jobs, Skills and Workplace Relations, the Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences sector won’t be happy. They won’t be happy if it goes to Innovation, Industry, Science either.
zoomster
As a sideline to to high quality services on the ground. Have you seen the Royal Children’s Hospital development. It is fabulous.
confessions
I am biased. My member for Scullin. Mr Harry Jenkins to stay in the role.
victoria:
Yes, good choice. I’m a Jenkins fan too.
Braved insiders just the Gillard bit- she was very good. Weird to hear the freebie questions on news ltd. Where did that come from?
Gillard very good on the MSM missing the biggest story of the campaign- costings. Cassidy didnt know what to say. Where WAS the pressure on the opposition over costings?
Shineybum, from what Julia said this morning, undergraduate higher education was going to Garrett (Schools), while the research and post grad was continuing on with Kim Carr (Innovation, Industry and Science).
I thought Gillard said undergrad stuff was with Evans – jobs, skills etc?
Ah, yes I think your right confessions. It is all very confusing
So Garrett is schools, ie Primary and Secondary ?
So did any of the people who helped oust Rudd no get a promotion- no. She shows no courage to not reward them.
Completely the opposite of the independents whom showed guts to back Gillard.
Fair enough Victoria, I want ALP to be a success but in QLD they have alot of rebuilding to do and have to do it without the support of the curious snail. Its a tough one.
Maybe time with her in government will give ppl up here time to get use to her and find out that they like her.
Marky I think that she would have to use the ppl who have the most experience and the ppl who want the responsibility. I don’t care about the three getting portfolios and better positions, just as long as they give 100% in that position.
madcyril:
Yes, and early childhood education, etc.
I think this is an area where Garrett can exert a positive influence without any of the baggage of either the previous Rudd government or his past activism.
Nyaah. Vics are a wonderful study in bipolar inferiority/ superiority complexity.
SA’s the state with the Pharisaical, pursed lip “Oh, you convict scum. Thank God we’re not like the rest of Oz” disdain. Pity “God” didn’t see fit to lavish it with gold and a decent independent fresh-water river-lake, though. The River & Mineral Gods seem to have preferred the other states.
Mind you, I do love SA. Love opals, love Flinders Ra, love Bool lagoon & the caves, love the red desert with its cobalt skies & silvery spinifex … love Adelaide’s art gallery (though crowding ?6 glorious small, delicate but important French Impressionists in a small corner, over Bugatti’s (I think) wildly “in your face” Deco furniture, shows a certain aesthetic lack likely to cause all the gallery’s PreRaphaelite, Morris & other Arts & Crafts artworks & artifacts fatal strokes if ever a magician brings them to life!
Or maybe that shocker has been redressed in the last 7 years!
It’s a great state to visit.
Anony and Oz P, thanks for your comments re; Public Ed Funding. I have no bone to pick with private schools as I’m a product of one myself but as a career classroom teacher, the best thing I every did was to move to teach in a public school after 10 years in the private system and now have 25 years of service in a country comprehensive high school.
My three sons attended the same school and have all done exceedingly well at tertiary level and professionally. They benefitted from the social mix offered by the local public schools and received a first class education even though they were in classes with students from a wide socio-economic background and academic motivation.
Yes, if you pay taxes you do deserve some of that back in services and education is one area, but I pay taxes and don’t expect the govt. to pay me the dole, dissability support, family allowance etc. I expect that money to go to those who need it (I don’t). It makes our society more equitable and stable. Equity is not about giving everyone a ‘hand-out’ but providing for those in need and who would struggle without it. Sad to say public education is in this category thanks to governments of both major afflictions and it is time to do something about it.
Best place to start would be to git rid of this ‘tax cuts for all’ mentality and start providing services again.
I believe so. I’m assuming TAFE comes under Evans (jobs, skills, workplace), and not Carr (industry).
Very confusing.
Gillard said on Insiders that Universities stay where they always were or wtte.
Undergrad with skills & training, post grad (research) with Innovation.
Thanks for the clarification guys.
Briefly @1478 the argument you put up to justify the waste of tax money on elite private schools is sophistry. The argument basically says because we have been doing it and people expect it then we have to keep doing it or they might get mad at us.
We are spending MILLIONS of dollars where it is completely unnecessary – why? Because of an argument that says: “I pay taxes so I expect to get my share of that tax back”. Since when is that the way taxation works?
We are talking about using tax money to advantage the already advantaged. The mantra is that it increases choice. And yet there is no evidence that fees at elite schools have been kept down – in fact they increase. Why can’t we be honest – this funding model is about creating and exacerbating class divisions. And if we challenge this they shout “envy” and we all shut up!
I don’t know if you have seen this but it is worth a read:
http://www.kellysite.net/classwar.html
And as for accountability – they are only now actually being asked to tell us what they do with all that money. And we don’t even get a good return on our “investment” – the results between the public and private are still close enough for us to wonder why we “reward” schools that burn so much money for so little return in terms of results.
We need to change the mantra – this is not about envy but gluttony. When too much just isn’t enough. And it is simply bad economic policy. Same applies to propping up private health.
Gwyneth, spot on! Thanks for the link. Great post.
Surely Cassidy’s most ridiculous question to the PM was whether she needed a minister advising her on the status of men?
1559
Too right!
confessions it was a joke. i thought he was quite pleasant towards her in general
Gluttony not envy.
Put perfectly Gweneth.
The effort Mr & Mrs Madonna, & Ch 10′s blatantly anti-Labor Cathy Border put into destroying Peter Beattie, then Anna Bligh, has been as ferocious as it is phenomenal. Not that CM hasn’t always been one of the Tory press’s bluest Tory rags; but it used to be a NEWSpaper not a more-hysterical-than-thou Murdoch tabloid.
CM also used to be very good at investigative journalism. It’s pursuit of police-political corruption included important articles on the National Hotel scandal (1963) & Whisky au Go Go firebombing (8/3/73) as well as Phil Dickie’s series of articles which, with the related 4 Corners The Moonlight State precipitated The Fitzgerald Royal Commission It did a good (but much belated) job on the Dr Death scandal – probably because, by that time, destroying the Beattie government had become its raison d’être.
With the CM the only Brisbane daily paper, NewsLtd’s ownership of The Cairns Post, Townsville Bulletin, Gold Coast Bulletin, Quest Community Papers & Brisbane News; and commercial TV’s as well as a significant number of radio & TV journos’ blatant anti-Labor, anti-Bligh bias, it’s very difficult to tell to what extent “Q government corruption” is real & what is anti-ALP “created” news.
PS It’s should be Its
The risk of running “in the red” is a red herring. This is about transparency in the use of public monies. Check the buffers of these elite schools! Millions!
We need to reform funding now: clearly any school that raises their fees after a HUGE profit on public funds needs their funding lowered: in favour of poorer public, indie and catholic schools. Its not just public v private, as others have noted.
In fact thats the way through: its equity, irrespective of who owns the school.
I also think they should have to purpose-apply for funds. Why are they even able to hoard surpluses like that? Who else gets to do that with public funds?
Note that none of the schools contested the figures .
Many of these private schools are ending up like the banks – super profits, super fees and have got the government of the day by the balls!
Personally I would like to see less public money going to private schools. I went to public primary and high schools myself and as people have said, the academic benefits of going to a private school seem fairly marginal in the scheme of things.
However.
Don’t ignore the politics of the situation. Latham did stumble badly when he tried to tackle the issue. Maybe that was just Latham, being as unhinged as he was, and maybe it was not approached in the best possible way – that’s kind of the point though, the Labor party is taking a very softly-softly-catchy-monkey way at the moment.
Many of our middle class are now incredibly ‘aspirational’. This is partially JWH’s fault of course, but partially also the inevitable result of living in a very capitalist society. People have all that they need, so they move up the hierarchy and start focusing on non-essential stuff – status primarily. Private schools are not about academic achievement – they are about status for the students but more importantly for the parents. This means an attempt to cut off subsidies for private schools reads as a direct attack on the private school families, as well as the public school families that aspire to be private school families, with the truth that their aspirations are not worthy of public subsidy – if they value it so much they should pay for it themselves. That doesn’t play well, mostly because it is pointing out peoples’ own shallow agenda to keep up with the Joneses.
The other problem is it is definitely an area of lies-damn-lies-and-statistics. It is altogether too easy to compare apples and oranges in the debate. Usually people on the left just look at federal funding of private schools. The problem with that is that it leaves out state funding of public schools as a comparison. As I recall, even with the distorted Howard funding formulas, overall public funding for private schools per place is still substantially lower than that for public schools. I’d argue that private schools probably deserve less, or at least a genuine needs-based-funding model, but not that they should receive nothing. The opportunity cost argument is valid where if students who weren’t able to afford private school places went to the public school that the cost to the public would be greater.
As always, I don’t think it’s useful to oversimplify the issue, which all sides of the debate seem wont to do. As I’ve said before, I actually think myschool has the potential to be a politically astute strategy to neutralize the issue by being the first step to transparent needs-based funding – we just haven’t seen the tie-in to the funding model yet. Fingers crossed.
Henderson hates the term the mad monk
good stuff, will keep referring to abbott as the
Atkins admits that the msm campaign
the msm are well and truly scared of what will happen to em
good stuff!
Higher Ed is confusing. Whereas some unis are more vocational (ex-TAFEs really), all universities have a mix of teaching and research. I don’t know what JG said on Insiders (I refuse to watch that show), but splitting uni funding along those lines is problematic. And with the new ‘Melbourne Model’, a lot of teaching is now post-grad.
Maybe Higher Ed’s going to be the responsibility of the Parl Sec, Jacinta Collins?
I’ll find out the detail tomorrow.
so what? wow, the government spends more on the schools it runs than on the schools it doesn’t run. how is that a sensible argument? the problem is the proportion of spending. we have the 3rd lowest proportion of expenditure on public schools and the fourth highest on private schools in the oecd. this ridiculous idea that it’s ok until we spend more on private schools than we do on public is just nonsense.
anony – so if we removed all subsidies to private schools tomorrow, say 15% of the total student population would be put back in the public system, and the government would be spending more overall, along with having a lot of very unhappy families. That sounds great.
Jackol, many teachers wonder if the funding part of My School website will ever kick in. I agree, the site , far from being a problem for schools can be the best argument ever for looking at the disparities between schools. A simple check of student numbers and divide that by the full-time staff figure from each school tells a powerful story of inequity. It just isn’t flagged with red/green colour bands.
In its current form MySchool is a league table and a cynical attempt by an ideologically misinformed education minister (JG).
For afters, try this link to see what a s— heap the NAPLAN data is as far as a comparative high-stakes testing tool. Margaret Wu does an excellent job:
http://www.appa.asn.au/index.php/appa-business/news-items/733-interpreting-naplan-results-for-the-lay-person-
Pensioners get rent assistance. People who are rich do not. If the rich become poor then they could qualify for rent assistance and that would cost us more. On your logic we should give the RA now.
Of course, they wonlt choose to become poor and they pay a price for that (no rent assistance) – similarly they choose to send their kids to schools with greater amenities and they pay for that choice loower sbsidies)
lefty e @ 1571
In WA auditing of some large public senior high schools revealed that they were putting aside money for sorely needed capital investments and some had some large sums for that purpose. The MSM cried foul- wasting tax money! The money was taken off them as they obviously didn’t need it. When an elite private school hoards millions AND puts up fees it is seen as good management of funds???
A bit more truth to inform the argument: many low fee poorer, indie and catholic schools rely on tax money for 70% or more of their income. In an interesting reversal of the standard argument – if the tax money was pulled they could not afford to operate. They build buildings with low or no interest capital grants and loans from the commonwealth. The public system could take over their operations with very little difference to the overall education budget by simply redirecting money from those schools that obviously don’t need to be propped up by the government.
On top of this they operate in competition with the local public school. In secondary this means that whole communities are denied the economies of scale over staffing and resources because there are too many schools for any one school to provide all the subject choices.
In country towns that have only one high school – ie no competing private school – all their students do better academically than in towns where this is not the case.
Then we have the social penalty we pay – the lady down my street sends her daughter to a low fee paying “Christian” school because she doesn’t want her mixing with Aboriginals. At least she is honest.
I would like the “choice” of a high quality local secular primary and secondary education for my children. In some affluent areas the local high school has closed down and the residents are forced to send their children to a religious school and pay through the nose for it.
I would like a proper debate in the public domain on this one. The biggest issue is as stated by Kenneth Davidson:
“Once the middle class have switched their children into private schools because they believe it is superior, their enthusiasm for paying taxes for an education system they don’t use drops off. Worse, why should they fund a system that, properly funded, is capable of achieving a level of excellence that might intensify competition for places in the best faculties in the best universities? The core issue is never articulated publicly: for middle-class parents the real attraction of private education is its exclusivity and the real turn-off of government schools is their inclusiveness.”
how can you say that when on this page there’s a link to rich private schools counting public money as profit? wake up, kings college is not the same as a small country private school, yet the funding allocation is skewed towards richer schools. why should an ultra-rich school receive a single dollar, which they don’t spend and count as profit, while there are poor private schools doing without? do you get a pat on the head and a biscuit from a rich person every time you argue for them?
Gus: I switched off Insiders after Gillard’s interview so didn’t hear the panel, but I’ve noticed with the PM and other ministers of late is they’ve started talking about accurrate reporting. I’ve heard Crean and Swan say the same thing in recent weeks. I hope they keep it up.
this quote from gwneth’s post is pretty much why the tories have been trying to strip funding from public schools and hand it to private schools. their world view is eternally of two classes, the ownership class and the servant class. if you’re a member of the owner class, you get to go to a good school, go to uni and take your place overseeing the servant class. if you’re a servant, you go to a crappy school, learn a trade if you’re lucky and tug the forelock to your betters. they do the same thing to everything they touch, whether it’s health, education, whatever, it’s always a 2-tier system for them. and of course there is an endless supply of useful idiots for them to use.
Er, Poll Bludger seems to lock up about here. Keeps looking for the pretty little pictures at http://www.gravatar … is it me?
Philmour – I had a look at that website page – I haven’t read the full paper, although glancing at a few of the sections does not fill me with confidence about the author.
Ms Wu’s summary is somewhat laughable since she highlights in her summary
However she hasn’t actually identified what the ‘great harm’ is, apart from suggesting potential defamation of teachers.
If she was less concerned about putting in a sensational unjustified statement in her summary I might trust her slightly more.
Most of what she says is that caution is needed in interpreting the NAPLAN results – that is perfectly true. The implicit conclusion is that something terrible will happen when over-zealous parents jump to conclusions based on NAPLAN data. It’s still not clear to me what the ‘great harm’ associated with misguided parents doing something – an unspecified something – actually is.
I also have reservations about some of Ms Wu’s analysis. She focuses to begin with on how much variability there is for an individual student between tests – perfectly reasonable, but also true of every single piece of assessment each child will do in their entire educational studies. She then goes on to assessing school/teacher performance. Less variability, she says, due to a larger sample size, but curiously she talks about assessing teachers based on the results and suggesting that teachers will be subject to unwarranted criticism based on different cohorts of students passing through their classrooms resulting in variability outside of the teacher’s control. That is true as far as it goes, but the great thing about having lots of information is you can analyse in multiple different ways, and the ability to longitudinally analyse individual students over time, or collectively for a particular class means that you can actually identify those cohort effects and normalize for them. This is basic stats, but Ms Wu seems to be focusing on some very narrow processes.
Regardless, Ms Wu seems only to be complaining about the public nature of the NAPLAN results, not their inherent worth for guiding investigation. I still haven’t heard any good arguments for why public disclosure will ‘do great harm’. Until I do, I’m not buying this criticism.
I am sure many religious schools will now refuse to accept funding from a government headed by an atheist that they campaigned against. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.
Private school funding started cause of a leaky dunny in a School in Goulburn town , so plumbers got alot to answer for
since then pro and anti incl here , hav distorted this whole Debate , often in ignoranse , but a good starter wuld be coag and formuli’s
anyways , Those intersted in reform do understand vip stepping stones of BER , MySchool , testing , and then 2013
Jackol
That argument was true when the baby boomers were moving through the system but most public schools could easily and happily absorb 15% because of economies of scale. In fact there is an optimum size for a well functioning secondary school in terms of capacity to offer range of choice (see my comments above) and the number of mid range private low and mid range fee schools are messing with this to the detriment of all. Meanwhile the elites suck on the fat with relish.
Wow anony – this is a fail of a debating point
Thank you for your patronization.
I’d also appreciate it if you actually read what I wrote before trying pin an argument I wasn’t making. I said:
Based on that I don’t think that means you can justifiably say I support:
I certainly never said that.
I have just been reading the ABC online version of the Ch10 interview with Fielding this morning. They have picked up the early part of the conversation and left off the end.
Result: headline – Fielding threatens to shoot down mining tax.
Correct, he did say that he didn’t believe in taxes of any kind and thought this had been ill-conceived, but in true Fielding manner, by the end of the interview he said that he would consider the mining tax on its merits.
Mind you, a typical rambling illogical interview form Fielding.
I hope Rudd’s backers keep the leaks coming to force an overthrow of the Gillies.
It will be in their best interests to do so.
Como, or one of the nat trust houses near the sea, or down the Mornington. There is one there, with a super art collection – hosted the exhibition of Emma Minnie Boyd’s pics a few years back. Or a new one on the hills above Great Ocean Rd. What a place to host official gov guests, like Barak & family!
][Goshome
Posted Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
I am sure many religious schools will now refuse to accept funding from a government headed by an atheist that they campaigned against. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.]
this does show you do not know anything about the catholic system then
most of our schools now are half and half, some classes have 70 percent non religious pupils with 30 per cent catholic, some classes are the other way around.
so i think it may be time you found out a little about the catholic system we take all comers.
Also if we closed our schools tomorrow, you find that educating Australian children would nearly double.
And yes we do pay taxes, ,most small poorer catholic school and i know nothing about the wealthy ones , the parents pay very small fees.
The politics of envy would get the labor party know where and if you look through the lists of ministers you will see many of them came from catholic colleges with grand traditions in sport and scholastic achievement
Gweneth
I think George hit the nail on the head in this comedy piece where he touches on class & taxes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwOQV32rHg
OzPolYTragic#1592
Some good suggestions. But Julia will do the right thing and stick to the Lodge. She is a realist after all!
Fessions
I listen to inciters on abc newsradio at 11am
that way i dont get to see their deranged grimaces and smarmy smiles
william really are you going to let tth stay here when adds nothing to the debate just
chatter about what he thinks should happen to the labor party.
fed up
reg my say
my say
Don’t take Truthy to heart. He is good for a laugh!
problem is victoria i dont enjoy those kind of laughs
sorry i suppose i am very serious person most of the time, and dont see the funny side of him at all
my say
truthy brings to light
let him ramble
Ditto Comrade, especially Crabby Annabelle. She is just as annoying as Diog, if not more.
And you never say what you think should happen to the Labor Party? Or Lib Party.
If your complaint against me is that i’m not pro-Labor, then guilty as charged.
Jackol you said:
but earlier you said:
where did i argue for no public funding for private schools? if you come at me with a silly false dilemma don’t act surprised when i ram it back up where it came from, ok?
our funding mix is terrible because ultra rich private schools get more money than they should, while poor private schools get less. the end.
lizzie: this is how Fielding’s interview is reported in The West:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7926971/fielding-keeps-open-mind-on-mining-tax/
I just think Rudd… seeing as he hasn’t quit parliament… and his backers who were quietly working behind the scenes during the election, will be working towards a come back.
I can’t imagine Rudd just sitting back and being happy with a foreign affairs portfolio to shut him up, he wants his job back.
Ron @1587 I fully understand what you are saying re stepping stones – and am hopeful but the debate also needs to be reset in terms of logic and reality. There are some really dumb assertions that are repeated without challenge. I blame JWH. It will take a generation to re-right the wrongs of his time in power.
@tth
Remember the words of a wise Australian:
confessions
That’s amazing … presumably that report wants to keep The West people angry that it still might go through. Meanwhile the ABC is just promoting conflict. sigh
I should probably do the same. The show is really only worth it for the interviews with politicians, the rest is just recycled journo groupthink as they rehash stuff that’s already done and dusted.
Insiders – I thought it was interesting this morning that Gerard Henderson did a real dummy spit about Oakeshott. Didn’t have a good word to say about him and carried it farther than I have seen elsewhere.
Anony, yes I jumped to a conclusion about your rather tetchy initial response which included this:
Which, given I had said it was an opportunity cost issue (ie if the students aren’t part of the private system, they’re in the public system – at the moment the government overall pays substantially less money per student if they are in the private system – ie they save money), implied that you were suggesting there was no opportunity cost and therefore government wasn’t justified in putting any money into private schools. I apologize for leaping to that conclusion.
All this enthusiasm of the middle classes for private schools,
this politics of snobbery, is fortunately going to be a
short lived phenomenon.
Australia will have to fund public schools properly soon
as education gets increasingly important for the workers in new service
industries and new technologies of renewable energy and
information. The snob value of being able to send kids to
a school where some neighbours can’t attend will be not worth it.
We already know how poorly privately schooled kids
perform at Uni, after being coached for exams
instead of educated broadly.
Also, the days of ferrying kids ling distances twice a day in the
4WD will be over.
And this will be good. As those parents with more resources and
time for making a fuss about failings in schools return to the
public sector then all the kids benefit, and all of society
benefits.
lizzie:
I didn’t see the Fielding interview, so can’t say who has the more accurate report. It’s incredible though the different take on his interview!
Does anyone here have any more info about the Oppn. “Putting it up to the govt” in the future Parliament? I’ve seen or heard a reference to them blocking by endless calls for division, or something like that. I’d be interested to know what Pyne is up to. Was it him doing the threat?
confessions
Well, they’re both right, really. Selective quoting. That’s why I listen right through to interviews even when I’m not enjoying them. “I want the facts, man!”
and i apologise for getting annoyed at that part of your argument. i don’t see the opportunity cost the way you do because the real opportunity cost is in the funds that would be better spent supporting schools that are struggling are being spent on schools that have more money than they know what to do with. if we take your assumption re: spending per student to be true, then you too should probably be looking at it that way. how much more saving could be had if poor schools got more money, improved their infrastructure and took on more students, as opposed to rich schools taking that money instead and not taking on more students?
Truthy, just change a few words here and there and your post could equally apply to Malcolm Turnbull.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/kinder-gentler-welcome-back-to-the-nasty-old-paradigm-20100910-154v5.html
good read
Gweneth@1563
Best post of the morning. Most others are mere apologia for Labor policy as usual.
You want to drive your car rather than catch the train? Fine, but the taxpayer won’t subsidise your fuel and purchase costs.
ron catholic school funding started because no one was willing to to the out back places and central australia with no modern conveniences only the nuns, the ones that came from Ireland as missionaries,
most of the time we catholics funded these places and i may say for all comers alwasy never just catholics, we put money on the collection plates and most of that money did not stay in the church it was sent to what we called the missions. These where mostly in central Australian qld . w.a and Nt. and also far reaching places of nsw.
this was of course began around late 1800, many of the high school that you know today that are old and established where built in about 1900., 1911, and so on,
they had classes as high as 60, we took the catholic children first in the cities then if there was room we took any one who wanted to come.
The catholic system was then recognised as needing help, and was funded in a very small way to start with, keeping in mind that NO wages where paid the nuns lived off the generosity of our parents and grandparents.
We use to have a day called larder day, we thought the tinned fruit and vegetable where going to the poor in the community i found out recently from a friend of mine it was what the nuns had for their kitchen, this same friend told me her father would go to the jail every morning about 7.30 and collect left over bread and take it to the nuns and brothers.
Very often though the nuns and brothers would feed the children who came to school with no breakfast.
As the years went by and there where less vocations, then lay people came to teach and wages had to be provided, this was when funding had to be stepped up.
so for years the Australian public got children that where educated for next to nothing by the state.
We alwasy paid for our own school books, etc, the nuns even cleaned the schools morning and night,
At week ends they spent time making things for school fairs etc.
So there is allot of ignorance out there by a lot of people that need to find out a little more, about how children where educated before the gov. decided to put school in to places that no one wanted to go to.
People also your really think of the debt of gratitude to these people who came from far off places.
I know the first reaction will be the negative things that happened but well i dont really think to much about that because there was never any negative for me my husband or our children we the same with our catholic friends , others can say what they like but we are more than happy with the education our children received and also with which our grandchildren will receive our children are all successful and have uni deg. and well thats beside the point they are all so very good citizens which what one really aims for.
As i said if the catholic system closed to tomorrow then you lot complaining would have higher taxes, for a start you would have to build more schools and class rooms, and that would be just the start of it, so i say stop complaining aus,. has got a good deal and and by the way we never pulled up in our 4 wheel drive bmw or merc.
gusface – that was a good read. seeing as all economic indicators are pointing the right way for us and the stimulus has primed the pump, what will the media say as the economy really starts up again next year? i know, bang on about interest rates.
ABC24 – The death of Newspapers and The Traditional Media now.
my say
The Catholics did it to brainwash before the age of 7 and then reinforce and further inculcate their new recruits with ritual and discipline, not to provide an altruistic service to the bush.
The public systems did, and still do, the latter -”free, secular and universal”.
anon @ 1621,
the increase in the price of living, increae in unemployment rate, etc. i’m sure that if they don’t find anything legitimate, they’ll manufacture something.
Well in my area the catholic high school takes so many non-catholics, that many catholics (including me) have no hope of getting our kids in there. Odd.
The Australian state public education systems are unique in the world. They have been a tremendous force for egalitarianism in the grand Aussie tradition. They are free; open to all and secular. They do not reflect the prejudices of the local community or broad religious factions, so they tend to free up young minds rather than trap them in the prejudices of their parents.
Public education should be protected, supported and expanded. Those who want to segregate their kids into exclusive brainwashing facilities or privilege factories should should not be subsidised.
That is the philosophical starting point from which good policy should spring.
Dee – I enjoyed that clip – spot on!
ABC24 is a fantastic channel, it gives both sides of the story.
jv @ 1623,
actually, we do subsidise the costs to some degree.
however, the allocation of government funding towards private education seems somewhat perversely skewed. and parents who send their kiddies to private schools should NOT expect a 1:1 funding ratio from government to subsidise what seems a ‘life-style’ choice. but which government is going to suck it in and confront the private school lobby? it’s certainly not going to be a coalition government. it’s strange the coalition stance on private enterprise and how government should back off to let the market do its thing; however, it doesn’t seem to apply to the propping-up of the private school system, the private health system, bailing out companies that go belly-up, etc…
bloggers
church funded schooling in this country is one of the major outstanding constitutional and political (and social and educational) problems in this country. it is a distinctly australian problem – we rank in top few highest funding of private schools in world – in bible belt US 98% of education funds fund to public, ditto on most of ex catholic europe. problem is our hastily patched up constitution did not deal with church state relations (or many other things). the relation between church state has been ad hoc, and while it might be too late to reverse church reform is urgently overdue. the state CANNOT fund and cause social and educational inequity – nor should churches be an agent for inequity. it is not business as normal – and a real challenge what political philosophy can retrospectively justify an arrangement that is hard to justify in most places of the world, for very good reasons. that philosophy might need to include a progressive christian/religious voice – but the current segregation of student populations along race/religion/class at public expense needs to be addressed, and neither party will touch the issue
geoffrey
Garrett is fairly strongly religious too – not sure which sect – but it isn’t a good start for the public schools, although I haven’t heard his personal views on state aid.
TTH – you mean the right and the far right.
Er, NO, it wouldn’t. This is a complete myth and, like most myths, aimed at shoring up revenue, power & control. Rigorous studies & stats show that not only could it be done easily; but, within a short time, additional state school costs would be more that offset by the savings from not having to fund non-state schools.
There are also (roughly) two tiers of non-state education:
1. RC schools under the CEO umbrella + a number of small “christian” (usually Evangelical), & non-christian religious schools, usually cheaper that other Inde schools, which survived without gov funding for religious reasons ( RC for over a century) and would probably do so again
2. Other Independent+non-CEO RC schools, many of them GPS or the next tier of elite private schools, from which some students would withdraw if funding ended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Australia states that, c2008, c66% of Oz kids are educated in state schools, c33% in non-state; of which c20.2% are in Catholic schools & 13.7% in Independent schools. If we take say 15% of students from Group 1 (above), where the least student loss is likely to occur, and add in about the same percentage from non-CEO RC schools; we’re probably looking at about 10% overall to the state system.
There were several well-researched studies on this topic (loss of private students to the state system) during the Fraser & early Hawke years. Excluding country boarders, moving the rest of those who would leave was quite cheap, as most could be absorbed by existing schools & their grounds (“campus” hadn’t migrate here yet) with very little extra building – a once off cost, if built well enough to last most of a century (as good buildings do) – and with not many more teachers, specialist rooms & facilities.
The school at which I taught during that time doubled in student population during my stay, with less than a third additional classroom buildings – in a period where the average class size crashed from c50 to half that & staffing doubled! From c1960-90, as school leaving age stats climbed while class size fell, most secondary schools in most states went through the same processes. Sure new schools were built; but between c1960 & 1990 Oz’s population doubled, so building schools from the time government funding started to be rorted (Fraser era) would have factored that in.
In addition, the lesson Q learnt in the period after public exams were scrapped, was that State HS results on standardised tests & student competence outstripped Private (inc academicaly selective) schools. NAPLAN tests show that there is little academic benefit in choosing a Private rather than a state school.
* State schools would be available, so (rural boarders excepted (they’re usually gov funded) there are no equity issues.
* If the state systems could handle huge population growth & train extra teachers as class sizes plummeted, the threat of costing the states Big Bucks is BUNK!
* In short, the only reason for continuing funding is political – the backlash of mainly elite private schools shoring up revenue, power & control.
Murdock needs to be exposed in everything he says and does. The pressure has to go right on him. A grub of the highest order.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/12/rupert-murdoch-british-media
Agreed and thanks jv.
My say – I have no problem with people choosing to operate private schools and I am happy to acknowledge the work of the churches in providing education in the (very) early days. What I object to is the insistence that this choice must be funded from the public purse to the detriment of the quality of the public system.
Even in the Catholic system there is a two tiered system though – schools for the poor and schools for the rich?
To try and clarify the University situation, here’s the transcript from this morning’s Insiders:
I’ve already forgiven Julia G for her team beating mine last night but I can’t seem to find the photo of her with Doggie supporters. Can someone from Vic please link it for me?
Much cheering and shouting here this morning when the PM spoke to Cassidy about the media – ‘journalists interviewing journalists’ and some thinking they were players, etc. Then Atkins virtually admitted they’d been lousy in running opinion instead of fact. Golden moments for sure.
OzPol Tragic @1633 Exactly!
not in my state there isnt,.
Tassie has many things to recommend it then
In 2005, non-government schools educated one-third (33%) of all school students, including 29% of all primary school students and 38% of all secondary school students. Catholic schools have traditionally educated the largest proportion of non-government school students, although this proportion has fallen from 67% in 1995 to 61% in 2005. Approximately one-fifth of all school students were enrolled in Catholic schools in 2005: 19% of all primary school students and 21% of all secondary school students.
Although Independent schools have the smallest number and proportion of all school students, they have had the largest proportional growth in student numbers over the past ten years. Between 1995 and 2005 the number of students enrolled in Independent schools has increased by 46% (or 135,300 students) compared with Catholic schools (11% or 65,200 students) and government schools (2% or 38,200 students).
google, AUSTRALIAN SOCIAL TRENS
my say
They follow the money, don’t they?
And your actual evidence to back up this assertion TTH? Or are yoy simply parroting the OO?
If one wants to stir the pot, one should have more than supposition to stir it with.
I’d buy a vintage car for my private use if a got an establishment grant and recurrent funding and paid no tax. I might get two.
Zoom
journo’s is so lazy with who is doing Education , and which parts It was clear yesterday
Julia YESTERDAY said same as when she had it , only change was separation of focus on early to High for Peter Garrett I can undrstand non journo’s not realizing this bit , but these Journo’s get paid to know who does what , because they IS supposed to “report” (spin”) on what they actualy do
Try harder Truthy
There is no way Labor will cause any instability with a minority government. The Liberals in opposition on the other hand, with Abbott, Turnbull, Hockey and Morrison, pass the popcorn
BH
A photo of Julia with Doggie supporters was on the front page of today’s Herald Sun.
I can’t seem to find it online at present.
the non government school issue should not be discussed only pragmatically eg cost to government, past services od catholic church etc. these reasons are NOT tendered in most other western countries. if universal fees or tax needed to cover extra costs so be it. same as gambling – pragmatic argument of income does not justify.
re schools the fundamental issues are church/state – deep constitutional issues at heart of western society, and australia is in limbo on this issue, more in step in education with some middle eastern countries. sorry to say it. now it might be necessary to justify religion in society, but how does one do that on a progressive basis and avoid fieldings and brethren and pells and abbots of the world.
right now quality of state schooling is affected, and julia is one supporting tests that can seem to underpin inequities. however tests are not main issue – issue is, what form of government/state do we have that funds churchs? this is not a critique of religion – look at america – but no church in america wants state funding or control of its freedom of faith!!!
90% students should be in comprehensive state schools that local community are proud of and involved in – whether these have to have some church affiliation in some cases because of past this has to be decided – but all schools should have similar funding, similar equity, similar state ownership. no brethren schools, no angligan, no islam – not in current form at least – if you chose to opt out do so entirely. private=private. the nsw education act 1870? “SECULAR, UNIVERSAL AND FREE” how we progress!!!!
Gaffhook
Thanks for linking that article re Rupert. The biggest threat to our democracy IMO!!
Gweneth
George Carlin’s view of the world reflects my own thoughts.
Shame he is dead.
Do you know what the Herald Sun can go and do with their front page???
They have probably read PB and are ESSING themselves over the fact that media ownership should be restricted for the good of our democracy!!!
Dee
George Carlin did not suffer fools gladly. What would he be saying if he were alive today in the US with all the controversy re 9/11 and burning the Koran?
Centre
The Herald Sun do wjat is in the interests of selling the paper. The Bullies winning and the PM being there with fans will sell papers. Democracy or no democracy. Lol!
oops – wjat = what
Did that nut go through with the burnings of the Koran?
Religious hypocrisy, is there any greater?
Good to hear that Julia could do a deal with Fielding to pass the MRRT.
I think Fielding is quite reasonable about many ALP policies & it would have been preferable for him to stay in the Senate if the alternative is to get the DLP’er. (The DLP are totally opposed to the mining tax.)
Centre
Don’t know. Last I heard was the FBI was going to have a chat with him. They were going to discourage him because it was going to be a threat to national security. Apparently, citing a danger to service people fighting the war in Afghanistan against the Taliban as a main point.
Yeah victoria, people are going to see Julia on the front page of the paper with the Bulldogs, so they will buy the paper if they were not going to in the first place?
Centre
for some footy followers yes. Why do you think the Herald Sun are happy when Collingwood do well. They sell many more papers! Are you a Melburnian?
i am so amazed at your attitude
I will ask you one thing have your ever had need to go to a private hospital
most of course where set up by the nuns,
here is another link you may like to go to jv for more education’
http://www.marymackillop.org.au/marys-story/beginnings.cfm
victoria, fair enough!
Of course not, I’m a superior sydneysider
my say
everyone has their own opinion about education including elite private and catholic education. I have sent all three of my children to catholic schools. The closest secondary school to my house happens to be a co-ed catholic school. I decided after investigating schools in the area, that I was prepared to pay for their education. The fees that I pay to send my children to school, is actually the shortfall that the govt does not cover per student in the catholic system. I am prepared to cop that because it was my decision to send them there. I look at it this way. If all my children went public, the govt would have to foot the whole bill. Sending them through the Catholic system, I am paying the difference. The last letter I received from the school confirmed that the shortfall is 37% In other words $5.000 per student, which is the amount of fees I pay.
Centre
As a Sydneysider, you may not realise our fixation with AFL here in Melbourne, but it certainly makes a huge difference in newspaper sales.
and I am an even superior Melburnian!!
Actually no, jv. A couple of days ago I posted (re Oz secular Constitution) re the two major periods of sectarianism in Oz’s C19 history.
* c1830 when rigid Scots Presbyterians went berserk re funding RC schools (Macquarie actually requested RC priests etc who could teach – when teaching Irish RC kids was a capital crime!) initiating state/ non-state divide.
* c1870, at the hight of European secularism and nationalist revolutions/ wars in most European countries. In this case, the problem was fueled by Henry Parkes & the loss of the Papal States (1867) to Garibaldi’s Red Shirt Risorgimento (A few of you here might enjoy this bit of history!)
BTW, Emigration to Oz of Garibaldi’s son & others with Red Shirt ties didn’t help!
1867 marks the beginning of what would become International Catholic Action Groups (later inc Santamaria’s NCC) primarily to recover both Papal States & Papal authority, and to defeat secularism (later morphed into Communism). At the same time, in Oz, an assassin’s shot stirred up a colossal sectarian brawl; the most interesting part (for a history tragic) being Henry Parkes’ speeches/ newspaper articles in florid Victorian rhetoric: “the snapping jaw of the Papist crocodile” is an unforgettable image!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Parkes
In the midst of this, c1870 a Papal delegate (?Nuncio) visited Australia (I’ve tried in vain to find this on Google, so others whose NSW history is more recent might correct & elaborate).
As florid an orator, and at least as over the top as Parkes, he stirred up a right old brawl; the result of which was to strengthen and entrench the state/ Catholic divide. When our RC’s seemed reluctant, the Vatican invented a new Commandment of the Church just for Oz Send Catholic children to Catholic schools and a brand new mortal sin for not doing so My mother’s and my generations grew up with that threat hanging over their heads. Mum, then living in a remote small town, had gone to a state school, and was terrified her mother would burn in hell for it, which Redemptorist priests (Wow could they do “Burning in Hell forever” imagery; eat y’r heart out Hieronymus Bosch) reinforced.
Commandment & sin disappeared during Vatican II; but not before they’d done almost a century’s of psychological & financial damage.
OzPolTragic
As I admitted in earlier post, my children have attended Catholic schools. I can tell you from firsthand experience, they are nothing like their historical counterparts. As a reference, all my children proclaim to be atheists!
victoria, I do realise Melburnian fixation for AFL.
Last night in the closing stages of the game, with the Bulldogs clinging to a 1 goal lead, the cameras showed a women literally praying that they would hang on.
Centre
Yes, I would say the AFL is our religion!
victoria@1665
I love stories of survival against all odds.
I too survived the clutches of the church, and was treated like a rebellious smart-arse for bucking the paradigm as a 12 year old. (Come to think of it, things haven’t changed
)
Speaking of footy, Dragons v Manly starts very soon. If Manly (the most hated Sydney team) wins, the Tigers will exit.
Unfortunately for the Mexicans, their most hated team will go on and beat Geelong, then St Kilda in the grand final.
Centre
not sure about that. We will just have to wait and see.
Any idea how many of those Independent schools taking part in the growth are actually part of the “new wave” of fundamentalist Christian schools, my say?
that is may be why i dont care that much for football then, everything these days is attached to big payment for what kicking a football from one end of the ground to another.
actually my son just played in a preliminary final today for his suburban club. They were four goals down in the last quarter. As the siren was about to go, both teams were level. Our team marked and kicked goal after siren. It was a brilliant win.
Nah, Centre!
Hawthorn have already got the boot! No chance of my “most hated” beating anyone this year!
Cheers
Devout Essendon supporter
People who think Labor taking a stand now on funding of private schools is a good idea must love opposition.
Such a move would be portrayed as an attack on religion by an atheist led government.
I want to see incremental change in focus back to the state system and a steady move towards an admittedly unattainable dream of free tertiary education. It will take many years under Labor. It will have no chance whatsoever under the Liberal government that will be elected if Labor goes to the electorate proposing an end to funding of private schools.
Rod Hagen
Bite your tongue. Hawks are my second favourite team. Very sad to see them out.
Great read. Thanks Gusface. I wasn’t going to comment again – done more than my share today. But this was SWEEEEET!
Goshome
I personally attended state primary and state secondary school. Whilst state primary was fantastic, secondary school was pathetic. It wasn’t for lack of amenities. It was all down to attitude, laziness and no accountability. As a result, my education suffered greatly. There was absolutely no incentive and no drive. I don’t know what is needed to fix this malaise.
mysay
Get away back, proselytiser.
Personally — I am anti-religious schools (and elite non religious private schools) and anti religious education of any kind before a child is over 16.
No human being has the capacity to discern whether a religion is right for them under that age. Until about 16 (and probably older for males — as the brain development is slower in areas of male brains, so I am reliably told by a lecturer in clinical psych from Syd uni) NO teenager should be indoctrinated into a belief system of any kind.
I am not advocating atheism for atheism’s sake. But I do feel children can be scarred (and scared) into certain behaviours by religious instruction and/or indoctrination. And as adult, can hold what I consider irrational views because of it.
Thus any school that advocates/teaches/stipulates religious instruction as part of its curriculum should NOT be funded by the state as far as I am concerned, beyond a basic, per child rate that is equal across the board. ALL other funding should be delivered to state schools with a decidedly NON-religious curriculums. That is not to say an outline of belief systems should not be taught from an objective historical context … but having classes in religious instruction are anathema to me.
From a personal experience point-of-view, I was working in a high school and was in the room nextdoor to a ‘scripture’ class. The person teaching ti was a lay preacher. The utter drivel this man spoke appalled me until I almost walked into the room and challenged him — common sense held me back (I would have likely been suspended) but to this day the misinformation that these people speak in the name of God frightens me.
jenauthor
As I said in earlier post, my children attended catholic schools. They are atheists.
I don’t know of any student that has been brainwashed by attending a catholic school. In fact, you would find that the majority of them would never attend church. I think indoctrination is something that happens at home.
Gweneth
Posted Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 12:38 pm | Permalink
“Ron @1587 I fully understand what you are saying re stepping stones – and am hopeful but the debate also needs to be reset in terms of logic and reality. There are some really dumb assertions that are repeated without challenge”
we is fighting an undeclared war re equity , and those 4 stepping stones I mentioned ex Julia is part of it Liberals know where we going and am sure they frustrated we did learned from th Latham battle
further as an asides to above , Howard embeeded many middle class welfares into oz incl in education ‘tricks’ , and even non politcaly it takes time and plan to unbed
unfortunate most of info posted today does not help cause , because its either mis info , biggotted , nuanced red herrings as religon hating which is diff issue to equity & equal educ opportunity , or prejuducives or not understand formala’s and mechanisms and agrees and varying criteria’s used to calc and measure Its like having a Barnaby Joyce a la j/v (and others) at your side
Victoria
your 2 fine posts help cause as eg’s of what is a posible guide post and why no of footy fields held & fees levels is reverse factors , and socio econamic locations $ trend diff
jenauthor
Hear, hear! Unfortunately, Garrett has an irrational blind spot too.
Goshome
It isn’t a matter of ‘taking a stand’ – that implies a General Custer type of confrontational suicide mission. As I said earlier, it is a matter of going back to the correct philosophical and ethical position as to what is right. The next step is to devise long-term strategies to fix what needs fixing. That includes the schools funding system which has gone completely awry.
The attitude that “It’s too hard” is cowardly in the extreme, and is at the heart of Labor’s electoral problems today. People can see that the philosophical heart has disappeared. What is government for if not to fix social evils? Labor is no longer in favour of egalitarianism. What does it stand for?
jenauthor
do you know how much it costs the govt to educate each child as a base figure?
victoria
boom boom!!
BK
Yes, it was devine.
By the way, how did your CFA session go?
No — funding comes via the states, and changes for age, ESL etc. in the state system. And I have been out of the school system for about 7 years now so my knowledge is reliant on friends who still work there.
My stand comes from a moral/ideological basis — principally twofold i.e firstly the state should only ever cater to state bodies in an egalitarian manner (I don’t think religions should get tax free status either), and the other is the brain/personality development one.
As Victoria says, her children wound up atheists … and that is also a common reaction — people can lose all affinity with spirituality of any kind.
I do agree also that religious zealousness (is that a word? zealotry perhaps?) stems from the home. But religious schools are not just catholic (which can be the least extreme). Fundamentalists from many religions pervade education around the world … and fundamentalists can be very damaging.
jenauthor
with regard to fundamentalists, I agree entirely. I find it actually quite frightening on so many levels. I suppose my point is that catholic schools in terms of their religious aspect these days, is benign. If for one minute I thought they would be influential in any way, I would not dare have had my children educated in that system.
Here in the State of Victoria, the govt in 2008 paid $11,880.00 for each student in the state system. The govt pays $7,427.00 for a student in the catholic system. Therefore the shortfall is paid by the parents. Say for eg. religion was no longer taught as a subject in any catholic school, they would then need to be funded the same as a state student. I wonder how much it would cost the govt every year in extra funding?
The public funding for non government schools is a tricky one. I was brought up in a “non religious” household myself, attended government schools, and have not the slightest belief in God. (The nearest I came to “indoctrination” involved my mother giving me Bertrand Russell to read when I was about 13. I loved it).
But I’m not at all sure that a “one size fits all”, state funding for state schools only, model is the right approach. I’ve never been one for “monoculture”, whether it comes to belief systems, education or even agricultural practices!
There really is some value in diversity. At one time or another I’ve seen some great things done by small independent schools operating in the “alternative education” area (though there have been some shockers, too, I hasten to add). In some circumstances, in fact, practices pioneered in such places have simply become part of the mainstream system over time.
I’ve also seen some great endeavours in Indigenous education come through similar processes. Yipirinya school in Alice Springs, which was established to service the town camps in the late 1970′s did some great work, getting many of the town camp kids to school for the first time ever. It always operated on a shoe string, but without some government funding it wouldn’t have been able to operate at all. The government schools in Alice Springs simply weren’t capable of delivering what was needed. (The local Catholic school, by the way, did rather better than the government ones in the area at that time).
On the other hand one of my best mates in high school had the misfortune to go to a particular Christian Brothers school that clearly did him as much harm as good. He was fortunately able to get out of it for his last couple of years of high school.
In the course of my own education I went to three different primary schools, all government run (two in Australia and one in England). One of the Australian ones was very good, and one was very ordinary. The English one was probably the best of all three. THe large “north of the harbor” government high school I went to in Sydney was at the time meant to be one of the better ones in the state at that time, but it was pretty danged ordinary. Yes, it got me good enough marks to score a place in medicine at Sydney Uni, which was seen as a good “aspirational” career in those days but it left me so fed up with “aspirational” notions that I didn’t take it up.
It was certainly nothing like as interesting a place to be as my younger daughter’s high school in Melbourne (Eltham High) but I’ve had a bit to do with school councils down here during my daughters’ educations and I’d have to say that a lot of other government High Schools that I’ve had dealings with as a result seem every bit as dead as my time at old “Forest High” was, I’m afraid.
So on balance I think there is something to be said for diversity, something to be said for at least some money in education going into the “non-government” sector, even, perhaps, something to be said for some real educational competition to ensure that the government sector doesn’t simply slide backwards itself.
That said, the notion of spending government money supporting the wealthy non-government schools appalls me. Anyone who spends time around government high schools but has the opportunity to visit the wealthy schools knows that the imbalance in facilities is absurd. There is simply no case for the expenditure of public money in wealthy schools when so much more needs to be done in the mainstream ones.
Like I said, its tricky.
Hi victoria. There were 180 firefighters from many towns all rotating around a series of exercises. Ours, in a woolshed, simulated the scene of an earthquake with smoke inside. They had goggles full of bubble wrap to render them rather blind so they had to go in with guide lines and feel their way through to locate, triage and extricate the victims.
The Governor of SA, Kev Scarce, and the OH were cruising around for the day.
Probably because CEO offices were (a decade & a half ago; had no contact since) hotbeds of Liberation Theology, largely as the result of Dr Ivan Illich’s visit to Oz & most capital city unis (1972, from memory). Marvellous intellect & humanity, esp re poverty & what was happening in Latin America! In the lead up to that visit, Oz RC’s had experienced Vatican II, were led by the liberal centralist Cardinal Norman Gilroy (despite Mannix & the NCC push’s displeasure).
Refused parental permission to enlist in WW I, Gilroy volunteered as a telegraphist and sailed for Egypt as junior wireless officer in the transport, Hessen.
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A140312b.htm pretty much explaining why he had little time for Mannix & less for “concho” Santamaria.
Illich’s visit came not long before Whitlam’s victory, and less than 2 years before Chilis’s President Allende’s government was overthrown by Pinochet’s 1973 Chilean coup d’état and United States intervention in Chile
My first Amnesty letter writing began with this coup, at the urging of Cath Ed & state RC colleagues. Whitlam’s fall – so soon after he extended school funding to RC schools (the biggest beneficiaries of the first round, as religious nuns, brothers & priests, still dominant in RC schools, weren’t paid, so salary bills were low) and Gair’s & Field’s roles in it – added to their ire.
20+ years later (last professional contact), CEO Brisbane’s ire might have mellowed, but not Liberation Theology principles, esp since Bris hosted Latin American refugees. I can’t imagine Pell’s elevation helped. The CathEd people I know at a personal level aren’t complimentary.
BK
Sounds like you had an interesting day out!
We weren’t talking about hospitals, now were we? Hospitals are there to make a profit. Schools are there to indoctrinate.
OzPolTragic
I have to say the mere mention of George Pell repulses me.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/media-missed-the-story-of-coalition-costings-black-hole-says-julia-gillard/story-fn59niix-1225919405976
Yessss!!! More please, Julia.
here is a thought experiment. does the labor party exist to:
a) advance policies it believes are in the best interest of all australians?
b) be elected to government as many times as possible?
i can see it now:
‘let’s abolish child labour!’
‘nah, we won’t get elected on that’
‘ok, how about a 5 day working week?’
‘enjoy opposition, lefty idealist!’
‘well, what about a fair days pay for a days work?’
‘maybe you should join the anarchists!’
jenauthor
I might add, that the last of my considerations in sending my children to a catholic school was for religious education. I know I am being a hypocrite, but my only interest in religion is in an historical context.
Centre @ 1651
I just LOVE the Herald Sun front cover.
When the Murdoch press publishes something like this , then it’s proof that Julia’s won!
It’s amazing that he is so reviled by so many people.
Ron @1682 I think we need to spend about equal time worrying about whether the softly softly approach loses as many votes as upsetting the aspirants. I am happy to go incremental but my argument isn’t as much about religion as it is about economics. It just doesn’t make sense. I know that the Libs will try and make that the argument. I still think it is important to challenge some of the logic out there.
I think he’s great for secularism.
Thanks Victoria – will hunt through the sports pages and see if I can find it.
BH
Are you disappointed re the Swannies?
Speaking of George Carlin and religion, here’s one of my favourite Carlin lines:
Tom Hawkins
George Carlin was genius.
As I asked earlier, I wonder what he would make of the goings on in the US with the Pastor and burning of the Koran. I would love to have heard his insight.
Amigo Ronnie, dont forget Diog, life is just not complete.
JV i actually had to look up this word,,[,proselytiser.[
no idea what it meant i
gave you the link so you could see how the system started
noy to convert you , that would be the last thing on my mind
so i will just leave you all to it then
1696
Yep, slowly slowly Gillard needs to expose the shameless msm and debased political journalists who make up the msm.
If Fran Kelly or Dennis Shamaham want a coalition govt, they should resign and run for office.
my say
I respect immensely your spirituality. No need to feel isolated by other people’s viewpoints. Everyone has something to contribute. We are not all the same. That is what makes it great. My mother is also very spiritual, and I love that about her.
So Stephen Hawkings was right. there is no GOD
Only joking my say. You’re harmless.
Off to billiards – involving cannons unrelated to the funding and religious canons inherent in our discussion today.
Amigo Finns
yep
well I thought in error diog knows he’s always included , but then again you’ve reminded me last time i left hims out he was quite upset and felt unwanted , thought I’d forgot him
dear blogger folk
the issue with education funding is not the quality of any school or dedication of teachers or experience or one’s own children. there is need to be more objective than any of these relative factors. the issue is one of social and constitutional policy, and i think australia is unaware of what is at stake in not having church/state relations defined in constitution etc. Neither is issue one of religion – this is problem in many of left who too readily bring out anti religion bias that has long been associated with left. It is possible that a progressive, left wing ‘coalition’ of religious and political interests could manage education in a publically responsible way. Thanks lot a to discussion on history of education policy and 19century generally – this has been a valuable discussion and it is pity gillard will not allow it like she has boats as this truly is important. without saying it again overseas countries with longer history than ours do seem monocultural – do not speak of choice at state’s expense – eg finland BANS religious schools, even though it sponsors elements of state lutheran religion. I am not saying churches should not be involved – the horse seems to have bolted – but there really does need to be some deep and sustained political thinking about the terms of which funding continues and the relation of church and state. anyone who thinks this issue can be ducked in name of their alma mater or their own belief or child’s needs or electioneering or how much they pay in fees is simply not doing serious political thinking and after all that is what this blog is about. all the above reasons matter but not fundamentally. what is fundamental is: on what justification does a modern pluralist secular govt have giving money to churches esp for education of young? if you don’t think there is an issue with church/state or theocratic links look a)at european history b) history of early american colonies and exit from europe c) iran today – sorry to be firm it might be nature of this medium and thanks for some great discussion and history on this issue post election though it might be
Victoria – Momentarily for Brett Kirk and Roosey but I’m a very old Swannies supporter – we get used to this but we still love watching them. Actually I didn’t get to see it – we got organised early to sit down by 7.00 pm but no FTA here so I had to wait until 11.30 pm for FoxFooty. A South Aussie friend kept texting me the score throughout the game. I didn’t have the heart to say don’t do it so when the final score came in I went to bed instead of waiting for Fox. I’ll watch it later in the week.
The Swannies are a bit like the Labor party over my lifetime – one has to learn to roll with the punches but I was so pleased to hear Julia G’s comments re the media this morning. At last we may be getting somewhere with misreporting and awful opinion pieces. The Libs are entitled to be strong in opposition but they are not entitled to lie and have the media cover up for them anymore.
I heard Dutton this mornings say that Peter Garrett was responsible for 4 deaths. I would have liked the journos to ask Dutton who was responsible for the deaths that occurred under Howard’s scheme!
BH
I have a soft spot for the Swans. Roos has been a brilliant coach, and Kirk a fabulous player, not to mention, gorgeous! Though sad for them, I was happy for Bulldog supporters. They usually end up on the wrong side of winning as well.
Julia was great this morning on Insiders. But I did not see Dutton, was he on Meet the Press?
Regarding the US “pastor” and his cheap publicity stunt, I would say the best thing anyone can do, whether christian, muslim or atheist, is to ignore him.
The guy is a failed preacher. As Juan Cole points out he was fired from his job in Cologne, Germany last year for abusing members of the congregation. His Gainsville “church” has just 50 members. He probably has next to no income, so he craves the publicity. Don’t give it to him! For all we know he could just be a silly old man suffering from a mental illness, or another preacher conman. If the story didn’t even get reported, it would make no difference. So why report it? See
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,716409,00.html
Meanwhile genuine religeous leaders in the US and Iraq, who represent thousands of people, make positive statments of a more tolerant nature, and it is hardly reported. So the trivial becomes major, and the major gets ignored. Lousy journalism isn’t limited to Aussie election campaigns. It is one thing to say that sensaltional stories always lead, but when media start doing that with international politics, they are playing a dangerous and irresponsible game.
See Juan Cole’s excellent post:
http://www.juancole.com/2010/09/top-stories-more-important-than-quran-burning-nut-job.html
If Muslims do hate Americans, the real reason is far more likely to be something like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers
Is Tony watching his Manly team go down?
Mm, I dunno so much, jenauthor. I have been irreligious as long as I can remember. One of my early recollections is attending Sunday Service at St. Michaels at the age of 11 and thinking, “This is so boring and such a lot of rubbish – how can it be that all these grown ups are falling for this stuff.” Born into a family of vehement god-botherers, I have been religion free my entire life.
Glad you’ve got a soft spot for Swannies. AFL’s been a religion in my SA family since it started there. Everyone was involved with the Glenelg Tigers til we moved to Sydney.
Dutton was on Sky with Van Onselen, Paul Kelly, Malcolm Farr & Sue Dunleavy. He spouted the same old stuff. It just rolled off his tongue and not one of them stopped or questioned him. It is still Labor bad, bad, bad for past 3 years. He is so difficult to watch.
Actually the comments by Kelly were that the new ministry is a good one except the worry that Education is split. He obviously didn’t know what was happening over the past 3 years with Kim Carr having the research/science side of things and employment having the TAFE side.
It made more sense when Julia talked about it on Insiders. I’m not sure how our PB teachers feel about it but I thought putting the ‘work’ side of it away from the ‘schools’ side would help integration of employment more.
How impressive was she this morning? I shouted for joy a few times. She really doesn’t get flustered too easily. Denis Atkins’ hypocrisy now that the election is over was something to behold. I wondered if Murdoch is worried about his chances of getting the Asia/Pacific thing away from the ABC now that Labor is back. Paul Kelly and Malcolm Farr were also more balanced today so something is going on or is this the lull before storm for Labor.
While we’re still debating school funding, I’ll repeat some of my comments (when BER guidelines appeared) re Commonwealth role in school funding, primarily a state responsibility,developed by the first government (Lib/Country) to initiate it.
Non-state school funding, a divisive issue since c1830, became more so when Menzies’ near loss in 1961 was followed by 1962′s Goulburn Diocese School strike.
Aware federal funding of education was a mine field, Menzies’ gov had begun funding Commonwealth university scholarships and established the Australian Universities Commission. When it moved into school-level funding (1966) it did so in areas outside State constitutional & legislative jurisdiction, funding specialist Science Blocks & Libraries. Despite the States-Commonwealth agreed Whitlam reforms, direct federal funding, like BER, followed the Coalition’s demarkation; hence no “normal” classrooms were built in states under the BER; but specialist rooms (computer, special ed, multipurpose etc) could, as well as halls, etc.
We had a similar experience in our family, victoria. No amount of humbug, talk of elitism or misleading assertions that we have been “specially-favoured” will persuade me we did the wrong thing for our kids, who received a good education, partly paid for by our family and partly by Government. I have the privilege of knowing that my hard-won, income tax has contributed to the education of my children, as well as to that other children who did not attend private schools. Now, tell me I’m a burden on society!
Soc, the problem with the Yanks is that they are all addicted to fame, the more notorious the better. So they are probably saying to themselves “why didnt i think of that first”.
Gweneth
Posted Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 4:27 pm | Permalink
“Ron @1682 I think we need to spend about equal time worrying about whether the softly softly approach loses as many votes as upsetting the aspirants. I am happy to go incremental but my argument isn’t as much about religion as it is about economics…..I know that the Libs will try and make that the argument. ”
Indeed they will , plus ‘we pay our taxes why shouldn’t we get $$’s for Kings School
Which is why th ground work is being laid wuth th Public via MySchool , Testing etc It is also one but not only reason behind BER & computers in classrooms which is totally opposite to Howards funding formula & current agrees so as to start a base base Furthers until 2013 these calcs , formala’s , coags and process cannt be changed , why Julia was mum on it
Finns
I agree but then my question would be: why pick up the story as world news outside the USA? It isn’t major news. It is lazy journalism – copying stuff off a wire service to fill up column inches. He’s just a silly old man. You could find similar if you went into the loony fringe of any large city.
There was a recently exposed fundy cult in Adelaide where the founders have run off to Vanuatu. Was that world news too?
I agree with Jenauthor at 1680; children should not be allowed to be brainwashed into any religeon under age 16-18. Others who study philosophy of mind tell me similar things about adolescent brain development. As briefly proves, not everyone is vulnerable to this, but many still are. Plus, not everyoen is taught to think critically about such stuff as a child, which woudl help them defend against it.
This is also why cigarette companies love to hook smokers when they are teenagers: they are far more likley to be adicts for life.
BH
I would like to believe that the MSM is getting their act together, but sadly it is more likely to be the calm before the storm.
briefly
I will say you are not a burden on society!
thanks ozpol tragic – great informed points
‘we’ve paid our taxes’ argument should be exposed for what it is – a simplistic rationalisation of a complex problem. try running that up flagpole in most western countries and you’d be laughed at. there are VERY good reasons why governments should not fund churches. QED. Finland is one place australia could learn from about education – the value it is given, the funding, the outcomes and resources. All public, all free (even tertiary) and ALL secular. If we want another system we need to argue much much harder than we have – what are public benefits, how is fundamentalism and intolerance to be avoided, how is equity to be guaranteed, why why why so many church schools etc
You are a good-hearted blogger, victoria. Nor are you a burden – quite the contrary.
briefly
thanks kindly.
Soc, for the outside world. One – it’s a circus show, it can only happens in the USA. Two, for the Islamic countries: “see we told you that USA is anti Islam”.
So everyone is happy.
Briefly, you are a burden on society, you are a burden to society.
Is that enough? or you want more.
victoria – it is just curious that they seem so ‘kind’ today. Quite different to the past few weeks. Is the outcry from so many journos like Tim Dunlop and tweeters like Poss and Grog having an effect. They have been getting very heavy criticism from all quarters now – hang on, 1/4 is missing and that’s the Opposition.
Hugh Mackay had a terrific piece in the SMH yesterday. Will try to find the link for you.
I actually bought the paper yesterday simply because I want to support Coorey, Taylor. Gittins and Mike Carlton. I won’t buy it every day but will look at it online heavily. I won’t be doing the same with newslimited.
Here’s the Hugh Mackay link – he’s a sensible fella
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/cries-of-illegitimacy-false-and-irrelevant-20100910-1551o.html
Hehe, Finns. You are an obliging wit yourself.
I can see the advantages & the problems. The real divide comes at Year 10. Beyond that, senior secondary, TAFE, other FET (further ed & training) and undergrad uni should follow well delineated, criteria referenced/ competency based international paths through Yrs 11-12 and/ or Certificate 1-4 and/or undergraduate studies. In a global society, International is the key word.
Many secondary senior sections have long since had school-TAFE Certificate 1-4 structures;
“Schools of Excellence” (by whatever name) join with post-school Academies & colleges to cater for gifted students in the fine & performing arts, and sport;
Many are already moving their “academic” (uni bound) Yr 11-12 students onto the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme (IBDP)
13 years ago, the “dream” plan was to move students through (& between) vertical programmes & institutions at their own pace, tailoring each step to internationally recognised criteria & credentials . I’ve now only tangental contact with such progs (most of my teacher/academic friends are long-retired) so I don’t know how widespread this restructuring has spread and how far it’s reached.
IMO, it’s a smart move now, as population continues to increase, to build cluster senior secondary colleges close to TAFES, Unis, Sports & Arts academies. So a bold step along the way would be for Gillard to appoint a Minister for childcare, preschool & yr 1-10 school ed, and another for Post yr10 education & training.
briefly, no, i am here just to make Diog miserable.
Has the on-line ABC reported at all today’s comments from the PM regarding journalistic standards?
They (ABC) seem to have 2 stories on Fed politics today
and
The OO has at least has run with this line
Have I missed the ABC story on this significant comment?
comment 1651
the herald sun will sell more papers to the non-collingwood supporters like myself when geelong roll them next friday night, the night the arrogance stops and Eddie has to cry himself to sleep
Oh dear. it’s time to put the Super into all CASH
I think Gillard has an excellent approach to education. It is all about lifelong learning and the relationships between learning, social empowerment, employment pathways, skill development and renewal, personal and family prosperity; and the wider landscape of economic development, science, technology, excellence and innovation. She has certainly moved on from the 1970′s and the arid arguments we have seen recapitulated here.
arguing for both Educ Secular and Educ $ equity
Libs will just love that suicide with th Public
first wont happen anyways , but will make 2nd one unlikely
BH
Thanks for posting that link. I hope you are right. Perhaps there has been a bit of reflection going on in light of all the criticism that has gone their way. For eg Julia today emphasised the failing of the media to investigate the coalitions costings, and that it took the 3 indies for it to be exposed. I will try and be optimistic that it may be a sign of things to come.
They wouldn’t want to be seen to be doing a bit of ‘cut and paste’ from the OO.
Of course they could have reported it first themselves seeing that it was on the Insiders which I think is still the ABC. lol.
Thanks Finn,
I didn’t lose my super because it was in cash. Not that I know much about it but I got antsy when there was a problem with Aussie stocks or something and switched it. I forgot about it and never switched it back. When I rang up in the GFC, the nice fella on the super line said, “Yours is fine, hasn’t lost anything.” I was relieved, but as I said, more by luck than design,
lol
Of course, there is no need for that sacrifice on your part. Diogenes, according to the stories, is an incorrigible pessimist and retailer of gloom. Nothing you can do will change his character either way.
We can live in hope I guess. I think the Indies and the Greens will draw attention to all the misreporting as we go along. They’ve got nothing to lose and they’ve all said they want a 3 year long Govt.
Puffy, it’s good to see a financial genius on PB
I see Mega is taking 6 months off from The Australian. What’s the bet he won’t be back? Don’t be surprised if we see him in the Fairfax papers.
He said he is doing quarterly essays and writing a new book.
Somehow, I think his statement that the Rabbott was not fit to govern may have bitten him on the bum.
One plus with the Swannies loss is that Fran Kelly is a rusted on supporter
THIS has been my rant for months. Yay Julia — glad you noticed this too!
Everyone knows that Gary Ablett Sen. is God, and Gary Hocking is Buddha….
Don’t they?
Finn
Well, if I wasn’t going to have it, I would’ve rather spent it. It is a wonder everyone didn’t rip their super out and go on a long holiday. Just tell the financial sector to get ‘effed.
Finns
Oh, the hypocritical US. They have extremely violent movies which top the box office. Sex is the staple diet in most if not all their sitcoms & yet Janet Jacksons tit falls out of her costume and they want to hang her.
I don’t know if this has been posted already. But it makes interesting reading.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/a-time-to-shine-20100911-155y6.html
One can be highly spiritual without having any association with organised religions. That is basically my MO.
As to the shortfall between public and private school, public school funding is, as I understand it, meant to cover all costs to a school (building, supplies, staffing etc.) They cannot enforce any kind of fees (minimal as they are) in state schools
This is why wealthy private schools have such good facilities — they charge exorbitant fees, over and above the funding from the govt. Olympic pools, archery ranges, ten playing fields etc etc. All these things come about because of the big disparity between the fees wealthy privates charge vs the per student cost.
(And, yes, I know they do heaps of fundraising etc as well — a friend of mine’s hubby did a stint as a paid fundraising officer — got paid twice as much as me to get more money out of alumni and corporates). Public schools are restricted on such activities.
Ah, Bludgers, what’s a day without another Rupert “When I rule the world” Murdoch?
News International plan to sponsor academy school causes concern Critics of Rupert Murdoch alarmed by ambitions to enter Britain’s education sector.
And we’re worried by the possibility of religious “brainwashing”!
Victoria
Grrrrrrr….Makes the blood boil doesn’t it?
Just read three articles including your link. The Rabbott & his crew are acting exactly the same as when they lost the 2007 election.
Instead of developing policies and renewing the party they riled against the decision of the voters as if it was one big mistake.
Dee
yes, that is why as I mentioned to BH, my optimism is tempered. I believe what the govt should repeat over and over to Abbott and CO, and obviously for the rest of Australia to hear is
“do you have Australia’s interests at heart, or your own quest for power”? This should be asked of the coalition at every turn.
OzPolTragic
I can’t find a link online, but The Age newspaper has a piece by Don van Natta jnr, Jo Becker and Graham Bowley headed “Hack Attack” It discusses the taping of the royal family and others by Murdoch owned paper. I believe you posted some links to UK papers recently re the same. Murdoch, I daresay is under some pressure.
has anyone got a link to the actual admin orders for the ministry – not the press release, or haven’t the admin orders been issued yet?
They said on teh news that Tone is set to make only minor changes to his front bench. It seems to me as though they seriously regard themselves as ‘waiting to govern’, and are simply waiting for the government to fall over.
I hope they keep this up – it reeks of hubris and arrogance, and failure to treat voters with respect by developing into a genuine alternative govt.
confessions
If Abbott does this, I see trouble ahead for the party. If they do not take the time to renew they will fail. The National Party will lose relevance and unless the Libs have some progressive policies, they will not garner support in the long term.
So he is basically keeping the Turnbull shadowy ministry? Surely he has the cojones to stamp his authority on his party?
Roxanna@1753:
Who are they? Are the relations of Tony Abbot and Joe Hockey?
Never heard of either of them.
ruawake
where is he going to put Turnbull?
Shadow minister for the Gap.
Victoria
They ‘promised’ him a senior role on the front bench pre-election. If this doesn’t eventuate I wonder what tack Turnbull & his supporters will take?
Finns
Don’t worry about your super, worry about your house.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/police-investigate-house-sale-scam-20100912-156to.html
Under a bus?
Or will he put Mr Ozemail, the guy who bought up all the small ISPs and screwed competiton, into Communications?
“Minor changes” probably means losing Bronnie, Kevin Andrews, their communications spokesperson, and bringing back Mal and a few others. He’s also supposed to be accommodating the Nats’ request for extra representation.
Doubtful, these are the kind of guys who support Abbott the most. Tony will not dump them in a fit.
Now that the AEC has finished counting for the
seat winner and declared many seats they will
turn to other more esoteric counts like the
TPP count in the non-classic eight seats
(Denison already done) and also to determining
preference flows between eliminated candidates
and the final two in each seat.
These results will be published over the coming weeks.
However, it is possible to have an early estimate of
some of these already by looking at the way that the
two candidate counts in each booth relate to the
first preference counts in each booth.
I have had a look at a few seats.
One of the most interesting flows, it seems, is the
flow from Greens to their new alliance partners
the ALP.
As mentioned, the flow from Greens to ALP has
looked to be pretty good in 2010, despite hopes
by right wing media commentators that the pref
flow rate could not be that high.
Eg, in Fremantle maybe about 89% of Green
prefs went to the ALP compared to 80% in 2007.
Swan seems to be up to about 85%.
On the other side there seems to be only a few important
seats that were disappointing so that if the Greens
and the ALP had worked together better on getting
Green voters to think more sensibly about their
preferences then the whole outcome of the
election could have been much happier, sooner.
Eg,
in Hasluck, it looks like the only about 72% of Green
preferences went on to the ALP (down from
77% in 2007). If it had been 81% instead,
the ALP would have won Hasluck.
I haven’t looked at the full details but
Dunkley and Solomon could have been
just or almost won with better preference
flows.
Breifly
A couple of observations – part of the problem with the education debate is that we can’t really run the experiment again. We have no real way of knowing whether a different choice would have led to better or worse outcomes. In this respect parents tend to look for the argument that rationalises their decision. We wouldn’t really want to think that we had wasted all that money -but maybe we did, may be we didn’t. So looking at individual cases is not much help – and that is not to make any comment at all on your choice.
Secondly, the recent research says that the most common final decider parents give for choosing a school is the buildings and grounds. Quality teaching is a great intangible and very hard to measure from the outside looking in, and as I said, hard to assess unless things go really pear shaped.
Many parents I speak to want to choose the local public school but their confidence has been undermined by the relentless media attacks, the eroded infrastructure, the mythology that by doing this they are ‘helping’ the poor people. In fact they are choosing private, not through choice but by their perception that public is no longer a choice.
I think a strong campaign can be constructed to bring the public with the Labor party on this. I know that it is a long term plan.
At present we have a strange shift in thinking – kids used to fail at school because they were lazy, or naughty. Now it is all about the choice of school. High stakes – if you choose the wrong school your child’s chances will be ruined blah blah blah Solution – spend money. Market forces. Education as a commodity. Backed by the government policy? Dangerous stuff. We need a broad debate – not a set of anecdotes – my kid went here and was happy etc. We need to think about how is all this impacting on all of us as a nation? Does paying for the education really improve the outcome or does it just reassure parents that they are demonstrating their level of care for their children becuase we are now so confused by the debate we don’t see the most important variable in the outcome is the world we as parents create for our children?
I want to know why all children in Australia can’t have the same level of quality education. Do they deserve less because their parents have less – what is the opportunity cost for not trying to maximise the outcome for all students?
Anyway – good to have a bit of a debate. Love the history stuff Oz.
PS why do I keep getting ? question marks instead of other punctuation?
question marks are only in the check/ preview section it seems.
Then he’s a fool. For as long as dinosaurs like Bronnie and Andrews are kept in shadow ministries, they are cluttering up positions that could be used to develop newer MPs.
Let’s try to be objective.
Is Robb as incompetent as my biased point of view tends to think?
Gaffhook, this looks very fishy for me (ah… we dolphins love fish) …. what sort of managing real estate agent that he got that would sell his client house based on emails. Hello, hello, there is a thing called the mobile phone.
My managing real estate agent calls me just to ask me for permission to change the taps.
Hi Victoria
here’s today’s The Independent story: Read all about it: The secret dossier of lawbreaking that spells trouble for Rupert Murdoch…and David Cameron
The article has the following links so you can catch up with one of the biggest British scandals for many a long year (?decade):
* Phone-hacking: Where does it all go from here?
* Search the news archive for more stories
I get the feeling, from UK online papers, blogs etc, that the floodgates of British resentment & wrath are being opened, with a determination to scour the Augean Stables of Murdoch’s muck and corruption through a House of Commons’ investigation. As each day passes, it seems ever more stories surface of stand-over tactics; police “decisions” to ignore evidence, not to pursue leads, not to prosecute; threats to members of the first Commons committee; now, today, the story of the intention to “buy” a school.
No wonder NewsLtd journos are so furious about the Oz election! Bad enough they’re losing power on boards, losing the battle to rein in conpetition in “their” 24/7 & other paywalled news “domains”; that NBN will further erode their media control. Now there’s no hope they can avoid questions about how far the Murdoch’s interference in USA & UK, especially in political matters, is replicated here.
Fairfax have almost everything to gain by the Murdoch exposee; “almost” because, unless they’ve been sold, Murdoch owns shares in Fairfax.
I actually hope he does keep them on. It belies the arrogance of his ‘govt in waiting’ line.
The coalition have serious questions to ask themselves about this election result, yet they are treating it as if them being in opposition is all happenstance, together with spite on the part of the indies. Why was their vote so appalling in Vic and Tas, and why didn’t they win more seats in NSW, the home state of their leader?
They didn’t do any of the heavy lifting during their first term in opposition, simply turning over leaders when things got tough going, and consequently they had no credible policies to take to an election. It seems they might fall into the same trap this time around. It makes their indignant outrage all the more laughable.
A PBer mentioned here awhile ago that it is possible that the ALP leaks could have been phone taps.
Who knows with this unscrupulous rag.
o course the “choice” discourse in education was brought in by Howard. It was part of a failed convert effort to privatise all education esp primary and secondary. “choice” talk is at odds with national goals, the greater good and entitlement of all to a quality education regardless not because of class or religion or culture. australia is a resource rich economy and mixed economy with public stake in education and health is best sensible and fair direction. “privately” owned schools are a trojan horse in the common weal and there is no evidence labor knows how to deal with this growing unchecked ‘monster’ inside society. of course churches will not be banished from the scene – this makes issue that much harder.
Anyone seen Laurie Oakes doing the big media stories since the election?
sandraom
1. Who out there had heard of Don Farrell before #spillard. I don’t even know what he looks like … #reshuffle #auspol 5 minutes ago via Echofon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Farrell
confessions,
The Opposition are a heart attack or a disaffected Independent away from power.
Why would they change their modus operandi if their behaviour has got them this close?
I suspect they’ll stick pretty much with what they have done in the past. Turnbull will probably be given the role of opposing the NBN or a Carbon Tax.
You are giving the Libs too much credit if you think they have learnt anything.
It sounds awfully spiteful but I hope the backlash is so immense that it shuts his empire down. Ouch!
And to think that the monster was spawned in our Adelaide.
Merde!
Dr Good, you might be interested in this comment I posted on Mumble:
maybe peeps in adelaide could ask that he be expunged from the records
no city should bear that shame
People will only put up with the hatchett jobs like Madonna King pulled on Anna Bligh in the Curious Snail on Saturday for so long too. If King wants to be Opposition Leader in Queensland she can get herself elected for the LNP and fight off Nicholls and Langbroek for the title in the Party room with a lucky dip for the final decision if necessary.
Not me. But often Parly secs are appointed without having any public profile. Not sure what her point is there steve.
OTOH there are plenty of others with supposedly higher profiles that I’d never seen: Bob Baldwin, who I understand is in Tone’s shadow ministry, but whom I can only recall from his alarmist tweets on Boats!, not from any dazzling shadow ministry performance. And the oppn broadband spokesperson, who I saw for the first time in the campaign when he launched their policy. Given broadband and communciations had been such a hot issue with Conroy before the election, why was he not more vocal?
I skipped over to The Daily Telegraph. Horror, horror!
Alan Jones article. Well you could have knocked me down with a feather.
His opinion of Penny Wong.
Probably doesn’t have the same profile interstate, but he is known as being very influential on the right of the party here in SA.
Confessions I took her to be a journalist who wants to keep on top of her work and genuinely wants to know who the players in the new Ministry are so she can do interviews with them etc.
1785
As your link shows he is faceless on Wikipedia.
Quite probable. I just find it hard to accept that they’ll allow themselves to make the same mistakes all over again.
Common sense tells me it’s no good just waiting for the govt to fail. They need to give people a reason to vote for them that goes beyond cheap slogans.
This might get Wyatt Roy and the Libs jumpimg.
Australian Constitution – Section 34 – Qualifications of members:
Until the Parliament otherwise provides, the qualifications of a member of the House of Representatives shall be as follows:-
(i.) He must be of the full age of twenty-one years, and must be an elector entitled to vote at the election of members of the House of Representatives, or a person qualifies to become such elector, and must have been for three years at the least a resident within the limits of the Commonwealth as existing at the time when he was chosen:
I was at a school that had vertical integration curriculum for a time — worked great and had social benefits. Allowed my son to do accelerated maths and a uni course while at school. But it was phased out again when the school grew and became, I think, unwieldy as the population got bigger.
Briefly, I don’t think your choice makes you a burden, unless your children attended wealthy private schools. Those schools can afford swimming pools etc. while state schools have to photocopy textbook pages because they cannot afford ‘class sets’ at times. The inequity of it is what makes me so mad.
People choose private schools for a variety of reasons, but like private health insurance, I believe that choice means they should forego govt funding. Like the Libs PPL scheme, you have, in effect, low income wage earners helping to finance elite wealthy students education, to the detriment of their own kids educational benefits.
Another example of wealthy school clout is the fact that they poach the best teachers and the nest students from the public system. At my school we had a brilliant maths HT. He lasted only a few years before one of the local elite schools made him an offer he couldn’t refuse … and he took his deputy, also brilliant, with him. Thus the state kids, who might be full of potential, lost out.
Be prepared for the ramping-up of more anti NBN rhetoric in to OO:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1531107&p=-1#bottom
BTW cud chewer, you are not related to another ungulate on Whirlpool by any chance?
Gweneth
I certainly did not choose my childrens’ school based on the buildings. I chose the school based on the co-curricular activities on offer. There are so many different activities for students to participate in. They are varied and ecletic. Examples are Chess club, design club, computer, dance, fitness, debating, culture, cycling, masterchef, and the list goes on. An extensive sports program. Also the school has a hospitality wing with a training restaurant. The restaurant is open to the general public one night a week. Also the arts department is well resourced with drama and music being very well resourced and very popular. There a various programs that students participate in including working with refugees, Social justice programs where students are placed in various organisations including special schools, aged care facilities and drug rehab programs, and the sacred heart missions. There is something for everyone. It is not all about academia. There are no swimming pools or fancy auditoriums, just a wide and varied list of avenues of activities to participate in to develop the whole person.
GG
wyatt obtains his majority next year
maybe he could wait until then afore taking his seat
I know, steve! I gather anyone who’d type before #spillard is, at best, a Liberal, though is probably from the dumber right. I mean, it’s been … how long now since good web search engines started?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google
Took me less than 10 seconds to google & find the ALP site with a pic!
And they wonder why Aussies in general, as well as Indies, prefer Labor to Abbott’s technologically challenged Party & allies!
Murdoch was born in Melbourne. You can have him back.
grey
well then the melburnians need to start erecting scarecrows!!!
time is running out
1798
UNTIL PARLIAMENT OTHERWISE PROVIDES! Parliament has otherwise provided. Trying to use that bit of the constitution to say Wyatt Roy can`t be in Parliament is like the Lib claim to have won the 2PP.
gus,
I’m sure he could wait. But, representing his community can’t.
This could end up like the Kennett demise where a bi election sealed the win for Labor.
Afterall, I’m sure that Wyatt’s personal following will be worth 2% to Labor.
gus, where is the lurve for the melburnians?
Dee
I confess I was the one suggesting that maybe the leaks came via phone tapping!!
September 12 1977 is the day Steve Biko died in police custody in a cell in Pretoria.
http://africanhistory.about.com/od/stevebiko/a/bio-Biko.htm
Tom,
Where and when did they provide?
GG
roy
abetz
wyatt
crook
et al
gawd the fibs are a rabble
Finns
well they did creat that other arch villian
carl williams
He’s a bloody Pisces, Oh the horror. I am changing my starsign
Hi Victoria, just in and catching up with all the blogs…I do believe Abbott wants to go to another election sooner rather than later, the members of the Coalition are still in election mode with their non stop abuse, lies and gutter attacks on the Govt and the Indies. I was appalled to hear that miserable creep Pyne making a disgusting personal attack on Peter Garrett yesterday, including yet another regurgitating of Garrett being responsible for the 4 deaths in the insulation programme. Frankly had he been near me he would have collected one , have had a guts full of those attacks.
On a lighter note I thought the quote of the day came from the sad sack Gerard Henderson on Insiders this morning….his “Tony Abbott is not mad and neither is he a Monk”was said with conviction and complete earnest. I had laughter convulsions
, Cassidy started to explain it was a nik name but gave it away…Henderson is the most dour sad human being I have ever encountered, surely it is a big put on, no one can be that miserable every day of his life.
victoria, you are a naughty person. expect a call from ASIO soon.
1811
When the Whitlam Government legislated to lower the voting age it also legislated to lower the candidacy/membership age. The Electoral Act 1918 was amended.
victoria – the research says it is not the only reason but a significant tipping factor in the choice especially if they don’t know much about education. I am sure that it wouldn’t be that way for many people as well.
gus, is he related to Bilbo?
gus,
If your’e looking for an argument, you are not looking in the right spots.
grey
that one is a bit harder
why are the cuttle fish are allowed to have group sex?
Who’s a pisces?
He renounced his Aussie citizenship to gain a larger market share in the US. He is now an American citizen.
They can have & keep the old cronie.
victoria:
Tapping phones is enough to get you a visit from ASIO. Or the Sex Party.
David
I missed Insiders on TV, but then watched it online later. Henderson was quite laughable when he was going on about the mad monk reference. He reminds me of a cartoon dog, with a sad demeanour. I just can’t remember the character’s name.
Anyhow with regard to these workplace deaths, I too have had a gutful and I suggest that they are threatened with libel, if they do not cease this ridiculous tact.
Finns
bilbo is THE arch villian
or was that the arch Villiam
I always get confused
Why is the 2PP in O’Connor being calculated on an ALP v NAT basis?
The official Coalition candidate was surely the (now ex) sitting member Mr Wilson Tuckey of the Liberal party. How does the actual seat result change that?
The Finnigans/Confessions
Well as it turns out Murdoch’s minions have been hacking phones in the UK for years. Who is to say, it has not happened here. As I often say, truth is stranger than fiction!
Gus, i thought Bilbo is Arch Wilhelm
The Finnigans
Because they jellyfish wrestle in front of Spanish Dancers.
http://www.ukdivers.net/life/rs/spanish_dancer.jpg
GG
I understand clives boy was advised the same thing.
too bad the fibs dont share info
Me AND Rupert Murdoch. Groans, checks birthday. Sighs…
jv, maybe they belongs to the Sex Party
gus,
The Libs share information Just not with each other.
GG, Mesma?
GG, it provided here.
grey: commiserations.
William,
Nothing like a good red herring on a Sunday night.
Droopy?
BK
You got it in one!
GG
he he
i should stop pranking fib MP’s
can i help it if i sound like howie
The Finnigans@1834
Haven’t seen any cuttlefish at the SP meetings. I think they all attend Family First functions, where they are admired for their intelligence, and for this sort of thing. Dolly Downer turns up sometimes too.:
http://whyfiles.org/shorties/156cuttlefish/
Finns,
The “eyes” have it.
It’s in the upbringing, vivtoria.
Everyone in my life but me. Grey, take heart in the knowledge that there are many good people in the world who share your birthday.
1837
Why it allows someone who is not an elector (elector= someone on the electoral roll) to stand when enrolment is compulsory is a question I would like answered. I think this should be changed.
gus,
“can i help it if i sound like howie”
Check your eyebrows daily, comrade.
Nyaah. He officially emigrated to USA & dumped our citizenship for USA’s; so none of us Aussies has to claim him! Like those who share his RW politics, he’s just another bad advertisement for C21′s “Land of the free & the home of the brave” & you have to admit, he’s put a lot of effort into changing that.
BK, do tell.
Victoria this from wikipedia….
Droopy is an American animated cartoon character, an anthropomorphic dog (supposedly a Basset Hound) with a droopy face, hence the name Droopy. He was created by Tex Avery, for theatrical cartoon shorts produced by the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer cartoon studio, in 1943. Essentially the polar opposite of Avery’s other famous MGM character, the loud and wacky Screwy Squirrel, Droopy moved slowly and lethargically, spoke in a jowly monotone, and, though he didn’t look like much, was shrewd enough to outwit his enemies and, when finally roused to anger, capable of beating adversaries twice his size with a comical thrashing.
The character first appeared, nameless, in Avery’s 1943 cartoon Dumb-hounded. Though he would not be called “Droopy” onscreen until his fifth cartoon, Señor Droopy (1949), the character was officially first labeled Happy Hound, a name used in the character’s appearances in Our Gang Comics. After the demise of the Droopy series in 1958, the character has been revived several times for new productions, often television shows also featuring MGM’s other famous cartoon stars, Tom and Jerry.
Not sure that Henderson would be capable of being roused to anger though, roused indicates action, speed, get up and go…he sits in the same position almost motionless, if the mouth wasn’t moving he could almost be a fixture. But I mustn’t be too cruel he approves of Julias front bench, so he has some good qualities. Just like to see him smile some time
Poor Rupe wasnt too smart though. He married Wendy Deng thinking she belongs to the Chairman Deng “Rich is Glorious” Xiao Ping’s clan. It turned there are millions of Dengs and Wendys in China.
Thank you Dee.Much appreciated.
Oops Finns, not much space between the c and the v.
do you know religious schools are generally exempt from anti discimination laws – ie can employ on basis of belief, and presumably exclude on all sorts of grounds. truly amazing – govt rewards/encourages people on basis of religion, or class, or race. i truly believe we need a reality check in this country – and i speak as someone with belief!!
Thanks William
(sorry was out walking the dog)
Yes. As I said on Friday, the early TPP results from O’Connor don’t look
fantastic for the ALP.
A few weeks ago I thought the ALP might get about 31% of the TPP
in O’Connor but now it may well be a bit less than that. From the
early booths it looks like the ALP is getting very few prefs from
Tuckey (of course) and maybe the Green to ALP flow is low.
But they are very small country booths (and one Hospital).
The difference will shave a few thousand off the final National ALP
TPP winning margin but that could still be of the order of 20,000.
Yes, it would be better for the ALP TPP margin if the count was
Coalition(Tuckey) versus ALP rather than
NonCoalition National Crook vs ALP but the AEC has
its traditions of counting every Lib/LNP/Nat/CLP as
part of the Coalition and doing the count using the
one ofthose who gets more votes after eliminations.
tis precious whim,to separate quiff from quim
Another brilliant post by Grog regarding the new Labor Ministry.
http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com/2010/09/cabinet-picks-and-pans.html
Gus
A comment along those lines did initially spring to mind, but, being a gentleman and all that . . . .
For those of you who may be interested.
I wrote about an hour ago (7.00pm EST) to Julie Bishop concerning her comments regarding the appointment of Kevin Rudd as Minister for Foreign Affairs.
I must give her top marks for a prompt reply – something many other MP’s don’t do – but I can’t say that I agree with it. This is her response:
I do wonder what the “risk” is – gunboats at dawn perhaps? – but I can’t be bothered corresponding further. Her reply just cements in my mind the shallowness of her ideas (not to mention the typical LNP innuendo in the tail that I had not, perhaps, read her interview – worthy of Fran Kelly indeed). There were several other points in my e-mail which remain unanswered so perhaps this was simply a computer generated response to many complaints on the issue and I credit her with too much when I say she has been prompt in reply.
I am not one of those who believe that Rudd should not have been given a senior cabinet post and I do believe he will make an excellent Minister for Foreign Affairs.
He was treated shabbily by his colleagues, notwithstanding his supposedly autocratic style of leadership. I’m afraid I subscribe to the idea that, had he been approached earlier and with some vigour, then he would have listened to the criticism and changed his style accordingly. Alternatively an ultimatum, but much, much earlier than a few weeks before an election.
However, the faceless ones (faceless no more) are now wallowing in the spoils and this fact alone gives succour to such remarks as made by Julie Bishop. We can expect a lot more of the same, eg illegitimate government, etc. over the coming months from both the MSM and the opposition. I sincerely hope that the PM nips such rubbish in the bud with force and with more vigour than her henchmen tried to persuade Rudd.
I’m also bemused at the many remarks that “internal polling” showed that the figures indicated toxic opinion polls. Well how about letting us see those polls if they were so toxic and showed him to be unelectable?
Others have written that the “official” opinion polls were in fact beginning to sway the Government’s way. We will never know, now, and I sincerely hope that Julia Gillard remains PM for many years. However the Labor party needs to take a long hard look at itself and any whiff of leaks or disunity will spell the end of this Government before you can say John Kerr.
BK
I have never been accused of being a genteleman
Allan
JB is prompt indeed
kev isnt the sort to stir the custard
whereas JB does like to cut the mustard
Kev is happy,and MORE importantly still breathing
power that kills is power no-one needs
As a matter of interest only I was wondering what will happen now that ministerial responsibilities have been rearranged?
For example, now that the responsibilities of the Education Department have been further split between ministers does it mean new departments will be established or that the head of the Education Department will now be responsible to three ministers? If this remains the case wouldn’t confusion re “chains of responsibility and reporting” be a distinct possibility? What usually happens when these circumstances arise?
Just wondering how far departmental heads etc would go to protect their turf and positions of importance ala Yes Minister.
gus,
Who was the polly caught in flagrante delicto with a pie that said he was “forking dis custard”?
Gusface
It does show us the calibre of the opposition that they are already out in full attack mode and the Parliament hasn’t even convened yet. Personally I think (and hope) that they will shoot themselves in their collective feet based on the comments we’ve been getting from Bishop, Pyne and others. Nobody likes a SORE LOSER!!
GG’
Surely that can only have been Hockey – or is it too obvious?
TurnbullMalcolm sobering piece in nyt by tom friedman – is he right to blame poor school results on the students? http://j.mp/bfuNRC 12 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/opinion/12friedman.html?_r=1&emc=tnt&tntemail0=y
Allan,
I’d suggest the Libs believe they need to break the new Government asap otherwise legitimacy and boredom will rule post July 1 next year.
David@1851
What would we do without wikipedia!
Doyley
From my many years in the public service, departmental heads fit in pretty well with new administrative arrangements. It’s sometimes those further down the ranks who get the s***s.
The rearrangements can cause a bit of confusion but it normally settles down pretty quickly. They are a much maligned professional body, after all, the good old PS.
GG
Very disgusted in fact
Allan Moyes:
Thank you for posting Bishop’s reply email, and I agree with the sentiments you’ve expressed in your comment.
You’re welcome, Confessions.
GG
I think that will be the strategy – try and cause as much discord now before July 2011. In a perverse way it makes sense for the opposition to try this but I, of course, hope they fail miserably.
Apparently Paterson is all tidied up tomorrow when the declaration of the Poll is held.
I’ve been thinking Julia Gillard should be seen more in the regions. Take the Canberra press gallery out of play to an extent. Answer local questions from local journalists. Take the entrenched journo’s with agendas out of play. As much as that is possible. Use her people skills and have a go. It’s sounds a bit naive I know. The other tack is to fight them on their ground. No, she sets the agenda.
Aren’t we talking about the same people?
I wonder what Malcolm Turnbull is up to posting all these articles on climate change, the economy and education …
He sure has a wide range of interests …
Tony “Mad Monk” Abbott
Correct me if I am wrong but I was watching the Insiders and the reference was made to Tony Abbott’s characterization as a mad Monk was a reference to his Catholicism.
I always thought it was a play on his name. The Abbott and his bald spot on his head not just his religion which was a secondary consideration.
Which one is it and what is the truth.
PI
papal knight?
one of only 77
that belongs to an order that is contemporaneous with the knights templar
spur,
If Turnbull were Leader of the Opposition, would the Indies be inclined to switch their allegiance?
I think the Independents wouldn’t switch to Turnbull, but I think it would definitely put pressure on Gillard because he provides an excellent leadership alternative.
Housing is another portfolio with parts split between two ministers. Some is with Jenny Macklin and some is now with Tony Burke.
Victoria my son 16, says there should be a site called sexapedia, so he can contribute to the pages…I suggested only thing he would be contributing to would be a loss of income per week and grounding, such suggestion brought a couple of friendly short arm jabs to the midriff and the retort, come on old fellah lets go a round, 30 secs should do it and that raucous laugh teenage sons seem to reserve for their old man. He has a redeeming feature though, has decided Julie Bishop should audition for the role of wicked witch of the North,reckons that cold stare would freeze Cardinal Pells water works
, sigh so much for a Catholic education.
spur,
If in twelve months the Indies were peeved with Labor but wouldn’t support the Coalition for all the nasty things said about them, wouldn’t “Clean hands” Turnbull be a viable compromise.
NAb is running some tres serious ads about banking
apparently $46b more than the other 3 banks was lent by the NAB
wonder why they waited till after the election
David
Your son is one switched on young man!
Given the damage Murdoch has done to the USA I’m surprised they haven’t come and bombed the shit out of us.
David,
My daughters do the same. They don’t take nonsense from anyone.
I read some trivia in the papers today. Apparently James Packer (son of Kerry) and Lachlan Murdoch (son of our esteemed Rupert) share the same birth date the 8th September. James Packer is 4 years older.
Why do people think Turnbull is such great leadership material? He showed appalling judgement over Gretch, and failed to unite his party. Remember those endless QTs where it was all Boats!, and nothing else. The govt started saying things like x days since a question on the economy, x days since a question on health. He won’t be great leadership quality until they weed out the luddites and denialists in the party.
Democracy Censored
Oh I forgot I have been censored for debating that way the Senate vote is counted, and as such my comments will not appear in the context of debate. Why is it I think a lot of this has to do with my criticism of the Green party as much as it has to do with criticism of the Senate and its flawed counting system. Only the ill informed ex-Senators thinks the Senate voting system is not flawed. To them black is white or is it Green. The maths indicate that the outcome is wrong, Little wonder why Queensland Greens said nothing about the counting error.
confessions
I think it may be because when comparing Malcolm to the Rabbott, Malcolm has so much more substance and is progressive.
And he won’t be great leadership material until he stops with the egomaniac stuff. He has to do the hard work to win the PMship, it won’t fall to him just cause everything else in his life has, as we’ve already seen from his past stint as Liberal leader.
confessions
Yes his judgment is definitely his biggest weakness, however over the last few months, his judgment has been awfully sound. If there is one thing that you can say about Turnbull is that he is extremely persistent. If he gets knocked off the bike, you can be guaranteed that he’ll have another go.
The other fact is that he’s the best thing that’s ever happened to the Liberal Party. He doesn’t believe in the nasty suburban reactionary policies that define John Howard and Tony Abbott. It’s about time the Liberal Party joined the 21st century!
If Gillard holds this bunch together and/or doesn’t get knifed, ala Rudd, within a year, then she’ll deserve the PMship but at the moment, like it or not, it’s hardly a legitimate government. Centrebet has slight odds-on for the end to come before Dec 2011. I can see Windsor crossing over before then when he realises that NBN ain’t what it’s cracked to me and certainly not in the next year or two. Unlike most on this site I wanted to see a Labor win, not a Labor-Greens, and second choice Libs. GG’s derision of Julie Bishop is a bit arrogant. What did she say that was so wrong? Tred to get an answer out of Rudd when you email him. Has anyone ever received a personal answer from HRH? Rudd is an egomaniac and will never take orders from Gillard when he’s strutting in the UN so stay tuned for that. She should have just told him to rack off but of course she can’t given the 1-seat majority. It’s a tough gig for Julia and she’s not as smart as I thought she was given the disastrous election campaign. Abbott has some very easy targets and some very easy stirring between the players so again, if she survives a year or so, well done and she’ll deserve the PMship. At the moment I think it’s still a bit embarrassing for her to move into the lodge, carried in by Wilkie, Bandt/Brown (shudder), Windsor and Oakeshott .. don’t you think Bludgers?
There is a struggle on right now for the soul of the liberal party, and quite frankly I don’t know who is ultimately going to prevail. It is my opinion that Costello would have eaten Gillard for breakfast. So the base of the libs is still very strong. It has to be said, that I never had anything against costello. His pointed divergence from Howard with regard to the walk for peace was very much why I would have voted for him.
Without that moderation, I think they’re permanently in opposition. Both Costello and Turnbull have the potential of causing massive swings against the government, or the hung parliament. I don’t think this is possible with the right-wing libs as they stand.
Mick 77, Please, it is “Good Will Week” this week and you come over here with this?
How does good old ageing looking J Bishop know there will not be any trust and confidence between the Foreign Minister and the PM?
Rudd and Gillard are professional people and I’m sure they will conduct their business and relationship accordingly. No more or less than Howard and Costello I’m sure, Julie!
Surely Mesma will not chicken out of opposing Rudd directly in Foreign Affairs now will she?
Not GG sorry – Allan Moyes re: corre with Bishop
Because libs elect a leader, not a party. They’d elect Turnbull (or Abbot) for what they supposedly stand for, not for anything they’ve said or done.
i don’t think this is exactly the case, nobody gets to have the money he has by poor judgement. his biggest weakness is how he actually go there – I hope Tanner bequeathed his Turnbull dirt file to his successor.
on communications, yes he does understand it better than his pinhead colleagues, but how he made his millions out of not only Ozemail but also FTR could be an issue
victoria: Turnbull showed during Gretch he was prepared to breach and corrupt whatever conventions we have when it comes to our system of government, to gain power. He thought he could cheat the system in order to bring down a government. I don’t want such a person anywhere near the levers of power, sorry. I know many Labor people would prefer Turnbull leading the Libs because he’s less intense and fundamentalist, but in a lot of ways he’s no better than Tone, who at least doesn’t try to hide his deceitfulness behind a warm and cuddly facade.
Besides, it will be great to see Tone’s face if Gillard can pull of majority govt next time around.
privi izumo
I doubt Costello would have been a popular leader.
Ah kids, Raymond came out with..mum says I have her looks and brains, so he asked what did he have of mine? My beloved apparently laughed and said a mortgage probably,nice they are ganging up on me, still he hasn’t started pinching my beer “yet”..am lucky have 3 lovely kids 2 boys and a girl, she who must be obeyed is not too bad either. Good solid Labor family so far, am very fortunate.
Enough on my family, I was bit annoyed with Mrs Speers comment yesterday that Rudders put on a big act and when he knew he was on camera waved to a non existent audience…got news for her I heard that presso and there was in fact a chorus of people singing for he’s a jolly good fellow and that is who he was waving to…the damn msm just keep on attacking.
Agree Confessions. Turnbull as opposed to Abbott could do something instead of nothing as PM but the bloke is 95% reputation!
confessions
I agree with what you say, but have you considered that perhaps Turnbull was led down the garden path by his supposed supporters in the party?
Costello probably has more integrity then the mad monk
Neither was Keating. But leader he was.
privi izumo
I see what you mean, but still I think Costello’s permanent smirk did not endear him.
david
ditto here with the tin lids
ps the msm are old dogs-new tricks are beyond em
sprocket_
Paul Keating no him better than anyone and he says that his lack of judgment is his biggest weakness.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/brilliant-and-fearless-but-paul-keating-was-right-about-turnbull-20090626-czt7.html
Part of the reason he’s had such a great business career is because he doesn’t judge, he acts.
1895 – I simply can’t follow your logic, the Libs had a moderate leader in Turnbull and couldnt poll better than 46 – 54 under his leadership, as soon as they went with Abbott they were back in the ball game.
In fact Abbott has been running the country from opposition- the ets backdown, the Rudd sacking, the East Timor “solution” all down to Abbott.
We have to get realistic and stop all this whisful thinking, this election showed that Howard moved the centre ground in this country to the centre right, and it would take at least two further terms of a Labor government to “recalibrate” that centre ground.
victoria:
Personally I think it’s a stretch to say he was led down the garden path. He tried to stamp his authority all over the Liberals in pushing for the CPRS, which ultimately led to his deposing, as the Howardia old guard seemed to dig their heels in in order to hang onto control of the party.
I agree with Turnbull’s stance on climate change. I agree with him on same sex marriage. But I don’t want him as alternative PM. There are potentially too many voters who would be taken in by the warm and cuddly image only to find they’ve wound up with yet another Liberal PM (this time a judgement-deficient one), prepared to sell their job and their family’s wellbeing down the line in order to directly profit the business owner who employs them. And Turnbull is much more one of the company chairperson elite than Howard ever was.
If the Libs are going to get in again, let it be on the back of an incompetent populist like Tone, bearing promises galore, whose wares are on display for all to see.
That is fair dinkum dellusional!
ETS backdown – Labor Party decision.
The Rudd sacking – Pink Batts and mining tax.
East Timor – That is not a bad policy if an agreement can be reached.
confessions
I doubt the coalition will want to dump Tone. He is a hero to them at the moment. They believe if the pressure is put on the govt., they can regain power sooner rather than later. I doubt Turnbull is going to be that patient. He wants the top job, and will have his eye on the prize. IMO the coalition is not as united as it is showing itself to be at present. Of course, the msm will not delve into the coalition unless there is some obvious rifts coming to the surface.
Centre
the witching hour?
Centre
Spot on!
don’t forget Hockey Bludgers. It’s his time this term
Centre – all under pressure applied by Abbott and polling, regardless of what you or I may think of him Abbott has been an effective opposition leader and Turnbull was not.
To some extent, yes … but at the same time Abbott also had to move somewhat to the centre to convince the people (or rather fool the people) that he was a moderate. For example: saying that workchoices is dead & buried, claiming that he’ll spend more on hospitals (while hiding planned cuts to PBS), coming up with a parental leave scheme more generous than Labor’s …
Pedro,
Abbott the best Opposition Leader of all. Long may he reign.
GG
Hear Hear!
Well he can produce his latest coalition agreement immediately then can’t he?
PEDRO:
I don’t think that’s true. Commentators such as Mega George have observed we have a split country at the moment, with Qld and WA going the way of the coalition, and the other states going the way of Labor. This doesn’t suggest a shift to the centre-right to me.
victoria:
Yes, I agree with that. They will probably keep Tone until the Senate changes over, and then dump him if it becomes apparent the oppose, oppose, oppose tactics have failed.
The only pressure came from the glorious opportunity presented to the MSM from the pink batts fiasco.
Think about it! What would the election result have been if the insulation scheme had been implemented smoothly and proper consultation had been conducted from the start for the mining tax.
99% good fortune for Abbott. The bloke is an imbecile! Couldn’t count to 21 if he was naked without a microscope
I think it is under the folder with the coalition costing of his promises which Rabbott was unable to produce during the election campaign.
confessions
with regards to Mega’s comments which I heard in make on LL other night. Would you say that now Simon Crean has the regional portfolio, and together with the indies input, the govt can make some good policy initiatives in Qld and WA?
Greenborough Growler – I enjoy reading your posts, you are brighter than that, if we on the left continue to underestimate Abbott we will pay the ultimate price, the Libs always do better under socially consevative leaders provided they can keep the neo liberal economics on a leash, because it attracts working class voters.
Centre
That has been my feeling all along. The insulation stuff ups sealed Rudd’s fate, but then when he decided to pick a fight with the miners, it was over red rover. If Rudd took a different approach with the mining tax initially, or in fact waited to announce it after the election, it would have made a huge difference to the way things turned out.
Abbott had absolutely nothing to do with this whatever.
Pedro,
If you on the left continue to be spooked by Libs saying nasty things then you deserve the ultimate price.
Us middle of the road centrists, who only ever get very concerned about those on the edge of the white line, laugh uncontrollably when Abboptt is proposed as a potential Leader for Australia.
Turnbull, on the other hand, is someone who can capture support across the traditional Party lines.
Yes victoria, I bet your not just a pretty face
Mick 77 @ 1894 and corrected @ 1898.
In what way was I arrogant in my “derision”. Read her email again and then my response. She basically questioned that I had even read her interview, so why shouldn’t I be a bit miffed?
Also it is sheer stupidity and presumptuous to say:
and quote a puff piece from an ancient academic as proof. To my knowledge Hugh White hasn’t had real “hands-on” experience in the public service for around 10 to 15 years but is still regularly dragged out by their ABC to give his “expert” opinion on strategic and defence matters (although his “expertise” is apparently in Pacific and Asian Studies). Now I’ll grant you that strategy and defence are linked to Foreign Affairs, but they are not exclusive, otherwise why bother having a Defence Ministry? There is also more to the world than Asia and the Pacific.
Anyway where is the risk? Risk to what? War with Eurasia? Selling wheat to Iraq?
See Centre’s reply @ 1897. It saves me repeating myself.
Also you’re not above a bit of “derision” yourself, calling Kevin Rudd, HRH. He must have upset you in some way, did he? Oh and it is very much a legitimate government. I’m tired of telling people that Labor got 72 seats, LNP got 72 seats. Labor negotiated an arrangement with the Green and some independents. Or are you saying that previous Liberal/National govts were illegitimate because they had an arrangement?
centre#1932
Extremely clever too!!
Lets take a reality check – the general consensus on the left was that Abbott was far too right wing and unelectable.If that was the case Labor should now have an increased majority, instead they have won 74 seats counting Wilkie and the Green.
Sugar coat that anyway you like but the centre ground in this country is on the right. The challenge now lays with Gillard to change that, I wish her well, if she can succeed history will judge her as one of the great Labor leaders.
Pedro,
Can entirly agree with that summation.
Labor’s almost demise was nearly all their own doing. Performance is the only way they can expect any respect from anyone.
However, the other side is that Abbott has risen without trace and could disappear just as quick.
victoria:
If Crean can’t make a success of the regional development portfolio, then I can’t think who can! My fingers are crossed that he succeed in those difficult states.
confessions
I am thinking that Crean’s portfolio may be the key to the govt. strategy this term.
Pedro, I wouldn’t get too excited with that theory because government tends to veer left for the first half of their term and swing back to the right the last half and during election campaigns.
PEDRO, the real reality check is that the Liberals got their batting order wrong! They should have gone Abbot or Nelson then Turnbull. Lucky for Labor, Turnbull would have been PM right now!
What can Abbott do? What are his policies? What does he stand for? What can he propose in parliament to win the support of the house on a particular issue?
Let’s see;
- cut the waste?
- pay back the debt?
- no new taxes?
- stop the boats?
Abbott has NOTHING!
Turbull is the Liberal that some centre labor voters would like to lead the Liberal party, like most conservatives they wouldn’t vote for him, but at least the idea of Turbull as prime minister doesn’t offend their sensibilities like Abbot does. I personally think he is a puffed up pratt.
Growler – Abbott can disappear if were cunning enough to handle him right, maybe as Gillard grows in the job she will start to find the target a bit more.
Pedro:
That’s waaaay too simplistic an assessment. This assumes that the electorate is accurate and repeatable in selecting the political alignment of the government to suit their tastes. This is obviously a very long way from the truth – so much of the way voters make their choice is sentiment and based on superficial ideas about competence rather than a political spectrum alignment. What swing there was to the Liberals wasn’t a swing to the right, it was a lack of confidence in Labor’s ability to govern effectively, which is where Abbott was successful in his relentless attacking style, aided and abetted by the MSM.
I hate to say it but the history of which side has spent the most time in government tells me you may be correct. That instinct for self interest perhaps?
And why do they do that Steve, because as we speak the right is were the swinging voters hang out.Gillard now has the challenge to change that and given she is leading a minority goverment if she succeeds she is one of the greats.
Yes Pedro but her first move will be left and will make Abbott look and act like a shrill, raving, knocking lunatic, barking mad from a hard right perspective. He will instinctively move from right to further right and eventually turfed right out.
A fair indication of where the votes are at can be seen on the order of issues of importance to voters.
From memory according to one survey, the cost of living and boat people both ranked more important than climate change. The Greens would love that
Ben Packham is a Liberal Party hack? Correct me if I’m wrong …
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/we-cant-halt-boats-says-immigration-minister-chris-bowen/story-e6frf7l6-1225919840337
Jackol – I partly agree with you, but the liberals took the unorthodoxed approach for an opposition of moving away from the centre rather than toward it in the lead in to an election campaign and it worked, they were heading for a thrashing and instead nearly won.
I can’t ignore this fact, others may choose to, and their arguments are far from indefensible, but I don’t fully buy them.
There is nothing wrong with E Timor plan, if it comes to fruition. The problem was that Gillard literally announced it when it was an idea, and it looked half baked and not thought out. then she acted as if the boat people issue was ticked off her list
Centre: From memory exit polling on election night showed Boats! to be a second order issue for voters.
Expect the Gillard Government’s first few months to be about hearing messages, listening caring, sharing,reconciliation, summits, participation, democracy, humility etc
Rabbott will be stopping boats,incompetence, waste, illiegitimacy, robbed, brutal attack, hold to account, at the end of the day, Fire, plunder, profligate and he’ll isolate the population.
wow confessions. There are a lot like Truthy out there
*night guys’ n’ gals*
The Labor Party made boats an issue. In 2007 election they were a non-issue because thanks to Howards Pacific Solution the boats had all but stopped.
Labor decided they’d make it an issue again by being complete lightweights on the issue and rolled over for the people smugglers allowing them to once again sell a product.
Just remember… if you want to make boats a non-issue, you must take the measures necessary that they no long come.
steve@1952
You forgot smoke ceremonies. Anything, as long as there is no Citizens’ Assembly of the Grand Bogans. I think it’s dead, but it hasn’t yet been cremated. I want to know all 6 names from the focus group who told Karl that was a good idea.
I’ve never seen so many boats in Townsville as there is now that Labor has won. There’s a people smuggler under every lightpole. Oh woe is me.!
Turnbulls great weakness to be frank about it is that he is too rich.He brings out the latent class envy in working class voters, I really hope the tories return to him because I don’t think he can win.
Riviera’s in the marina don’t count.
Riviera’s in the marina don’t count.
Oh
The Citizens’ Assembly so offends the smarties. I wonder why that is. I don’t think the knockers are claiming that they are more able to reason, or have better cognitive faculties than your average punter, are they? Surely if the evidence and explanations have so convinced you, JV and Diog and others, it would convince any person of reasonable intelligence who gave it their full attention?
That was the point, ultimately: to go through the process of setting out the case to ordinary people who were giving the matter their full attention. I thought it was a fine idea to neutralize the attacks of the talkback hosts and the Bolts and Ackermans of this world.
A delaying tactic you say? Well, look where we are – nothing is going to happen for the next 10 months until the Senate changes over anyway. What do we do with this time? Oh hey, we could have a consensus building dialog. Who would have thought?
I’ m not conviced by those exit polls, people lie to pollsters on these kind of issues.
In the last week of the campaign the Tories focused almost exclusively on the boat issue and Labor definitelt lost ground in that last week- coincidence, maybe?
Like an election campaign? Or a hung parliament?
Contrast how many Boats! arrived during both these periods, and the media focus given to them. There’s your answer.
Jackol
If the party still thinks the Cit. Ass. idea it is so good, why did they agree so readily to a small committee of experts who are already there on the need for a price on carbon – thereby leaving the Cit. Ass. concept stillborn?
Answer: because more voters are smarter than Karl and Mark gave them credit for, and gave it a big no. The voters are way ahead of this government on the need for strong action on carbon. They saw the Cit. Ass. as an excuse to do nothing for longer as part of the party’s emerging general cowardice on critical and controversial policy. (Karl and Mark and Bill and David and the Farrell guy, again)
What Labor need to do is a better job of convinci ng anglo blue collar workers that it is in their economic interests to vote Labor, then issues like boats will not bite so hard.
Well let me put it this way. The first order issues identified by exit polling included things like the economy, cost of living and health.
Are these disputable?
JV, in case you hadn’t noticed, during the campaign a whole bunch of smarties, just like you, made a lot of jokes about the CA. Not for any justifiable reason; like you they just took an immediate dislike to it and felt quite superior about it. Like the chaser eg.
Once enough people think something is a joke, it becomes self fulfilling, whether or not the basic concept is worthy or not.
The CA probably is dead. I don’t see that as a victory for commonsense and reason. If we’re lucky we’ll get strong action anyway. I certainly hope so.
I do ask, again, if it was all simply a delaying tactic, tell me what is happening right now, and what will happen in the time until the Senate changes over? That’s right, nothing but talk/negotiations. This period could legitimately have included a CA without delaying any legislative action.
What bugs me is that jokey superior dismissal from those commentators such as yourself and the Chaser.
I’d love to think that was correct but the last state WA election where the Labor Government lead on every economic indicator and got turfed out because some voters felt left out cured me I’m sad to say.
Abbott’s got a long way by using the word “incompetent” in every second sentence – it’s a meme that seems to have paid a certain amount of dividends for him, and Labor just take the hit in the guts each time with not even a whimpering protest. It’s about time the Labor party came out with their own meme to repeat constantly for the next three years; I’m thinking along the lines of a dismissive “just another Abbott lie” in response to everything he says, repeated endlessly over and over until the words “Abbott” and “Lie” enter the Australian subconscious.
I apologize if I’m reposting this:
Headline: We can’t halt boats says Immigration Minister Chris Bowen
NEW Immigration Minister Chris Bowen has warned he won’t stop the flow of refugee boats coming to Australia.
A day after being handed one of the toughest portfolios in the Government, Mr Bowen told the Herald Sun: “I’m not going to raise any sort of expectations that boats are easy to stop.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/we-cant-halt-boats-says-immigration-minister-chris-bowen/story-e6frf7l6-1225919840337
All I know is the Tories went very hard on boats in that last week and Labor definitely went backward in the polls in that last week so anecdotal evidence tells me that it did bite. Remember we are ot talking huge numbers here, maybe a couple of percentage points, but that can swing elections.
This idea that 4 or five people are the puppet masters is X-files stuff, right up there with illuminati conspiracies.
spur212 1969
So much for Labor avoiding making the boats an issue. Abbott just ticked that one off on his wish list.
PEDRO: Boats! weren’t mentioned in the MSM during the campaign. Nor have they been mentioned in the post-election period, yet we’ve seen polling which favours Labor despites Boats! continuing to arrive.
I have never had one. If someone did own one I reckon it would count a bit. 4.5 m fishing boat and dibs in a 31 foot sailing boat. Best I’ve done . A Riviera and a marina berth would be 500,000 dollars at least. Big stinkboats are very expensive. Wonder what the poor people are doing. This one is posting on Crikey. A lot of these owners think engine power will save them, what if it fails?. No bloody idea. Having money has never made anyone bright. Just cocky.
What else was Bowen going to do? I think it’s probably a good plan – be honest, upfront. If anything they are trying the under-promise and over-deliver strategy, which is good for avoiding disappointment/disillusionment in the electorate. As others have said, seasonal conditions probably mean there’s a lull in boat arrivals coming up soon.
Mick77
#1 It’s by Ben Packham
#2 The headline says something very different to the content. Not raising expectations is very different from not being able to do it (which is what’s being reported).
1971 – State elections are different Steve, Canberra is the major league and when Labor can show blue collar voters it is in their economic interest to vote for them, they will.
Think 2007 , think work choices, and then look at the demographics of the seats Labor won at that election.
Immigration, refugees …. neither party goes far enough, Labor better than Libs but not good enough. I’m with the Greens on this one …..
1973 – During the last week of the campaign all I heard on the radio at work were Liberal ads about boats so I think it got a mention somewhere.
Pedro in Qld we had the whole Tory campaign was geared on and around state issues. Leichardt was clearly won on an anti Wild Rivers agenda and the Tories like Pearson and Entsch are proud of that statebased campaign.
I saw the Redlands newspaper the week after the election apologising for misleading voters about some legal Graffiti that Laming and the paper seemed to be implying was something else.
On and On it went.
I think Bowen could have expressed the boat issue better and he should have, so now get ready for … “pick up the phone to the President of Nauru” … after every boat arrival followed by Bowen interviewed on progress re: East Timor, which Rudd is never gonna let happen and will start contradicting Bowen when he’s interviewed. Gillard should just have left the knife in him methinks.
Also I have members of my extended family(who I don’t particularly care for) who voted for them at least partly because of it.
jackol
Thanks – it’s nice to be bracketed with the Chaser guys.
There is so much that should be being done, and should have been done, but hasn’t. The government should be getting the populace geared up and informed as to what must happen. There should be a massive information blitz that is unrelenting. It’s a bit like a war situation. Decisions have to be made and carried through with the people. This is life and death. This is not a situation where we rehash what we already know in a dishonest shallow process that trivialises the science and economics of climate change. Is is patronising, condescending and pointless to have 150 people off the streets to determine whether or not we go ahead with strong action, which was the stated purpose of the idea according to Gillard.
The experts already know we need strong action. We already know we need strong action. The people in general already know we need strong action. So the best course is clearly to initiate – strong action, not a dead-and talk-fest of non-experts. The time for rehashing lost arguments is passed.
At least the Greens allowed the government to save face in dropping the CA, and adopt something useful – an expert panel to look to the best implementation methods that is not going to toy with idiots and deniers, but takes as a given that there must be a price on carbon. That needs to be worked through well before July. There is so much in the Treasury modelling to be put into practice. The government has to make up for lost time and provide leadership on the issue.
How can you say nothing but talk and negotiations can happen in the meantime? That would be madness. We have to get our act together.
Steve – I can’t comment on Leichardt I’m not close enough to it, but I really think modern Labor’s core problem is that a lot of working class people in places like Queensland and WA no longer feel any tribal links with the Labor party and therefore are tempted by the Tories via what you might loosely call cultural issues.
The only way for Labor to combat this is to emphasise to working class voters that it is in their economic interest to vote Labor.Labor had big swings to them from this demographic at both the gst elections and the work choices election – this demographic is very “hip pocket sensitive”
If on the other hand it perceives little economic advantage in voting Labor then state issues, wild rivers, boats, whatever will tempt it away.
I say this because any of the important stuff is going to require legislation, there’s only a limited amount you can do using only executive powers. The current senate isn’t going to pass anything meaningful – that was kind of the point about the stalemate over the last term.
But talk/negotiation is essential anyway – once July 2011 rolls around there are bills to pass the Senate, get the horsetrading out of the way now and pass things in July.
One minor tiny little hiccup with the plan… not a biggie though really…. East Timor said NO.
Other than that, in Labor land it’s a brilliant idea. In other announcements New Zealand will be Australia’s nuclear dumping ground, China’s going to be taking our land fill rubbish and Germanys taking our criminals. We’ll worry about the little details of contacting them later, thats how Labor do negotiations… ANNOUNCE the policy, then talk to those affected.
Failed his portfolio on Day 1.
Quite an achievement, is this a new record?
As opposed to not announcing policy, talking to those affected, and then being accused of ‘not telling the Australian people what you plan to do’.
This whole concept that governments can somehow negotiate anything substantial in a media vacuum is absurd, and the MSM would have a field day if it got a whiff that there was any substantial policy being discussed without clearing it with them first…
Labor’s sin in that regard (and it was very similar to the RSPT fundamentally) was not finessing the situation slightly more – ie they didn’t spin the issues in quite the right way. They needed to be -better- spinners and announce stuff in such a way that it was slightly less committal, slightly more casual as it were.
The RSPT they failed at this because Rudd was trying to use some hairy chestedness over the RSPT to make up for perceived or real backdowns on other policies. The East Timor solution failed in presentation because Julia was in too much of a rush to get something about asylum seekers ‘squared away’ before the asap poll.
Jackol
Posted Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 11:07 pm | Permalink
“JV, in case you hadn’t noticed, during the campaign a whole bunch of smarties, just like you, made a lot of jokes about the CA. Not for any justifiable reason; like you they just took an immediate dislike to it and felt quite superior about it. Like the chaser eg.
Once enough people think something is a joke, it becomes self fulfilling, whether or not the basic concept is worthy or not.
The CA probably is dead. I don’t see that as a victory for commonsense and reason. If we’re lucky we’ll get strong action anyway. I certainly hope so.
I do ask, again, if it was all simply a delaying tactic, tell me what is happening right now, and what will happen in the time until the Senate changes over? That’s right, nothing but talk/negotiations. This period could legitimately have included a CA without delaying any legislative action.
What bugs me is that jokey superior dismissal from those commentators such as yourself and the Chaser.”
good post
voters need to be brought along with accepting that a feel good idea of reducing co2 (which is ALL that Polls so far hav measured) , ALSO needs acceptance of paying higher enegy costs , befor Libs run there great new carbin tax scare campiagns
So Bowen is expected to stop the boats tomorrow is he? Geez some people talk crap. Of course he can’t stop them over night. He’s telling the truth, something the Libs fail to do.
Things like East Timor are a waste of time, no one who cares about the issue is ever going to believe Labor are going to be as hardline with refugees as the tories so getting into bidding wars with them is simly nonsense.
Labor needs to campaign on economics, on thew financial advantages to lower middle income earners of voting Labor: thats the key to winning.
On Day 1 of his job he says and won’t and can’t stop the boats.
Thats an admission of failure. He won’t stop the boats, tommorow, next week, next month or next year, he’s just admitted that.
Imagine putting a bloke in charge of a ministry that says he can’t fix the problems and it’s all too hard on DAY 1. Un-bloody-believable.
I was here a year or so ago warning that boaties will continue to be an issue until Labor FIXES the problem. Doing nothing doesn’t fix a problem, in fact doing nothing oftern results in problems getting worse.
We are now seeing overcrowding in our detention centres, riots, drownings, almost had our brave navy boys blown to smitherines yet you think doing nothing the problem will somehow go away. The only way to fix a problem is to do something, and the only way to fix this problem permanently is to stop the boats. Hoping to focus on other issues won’t work because the Aussie people have decided this is an issue to them and it’s electoral poison to Labor. The boat arrivals are increasing exponentially so Labor are running out of time to deal with this issue.
TheTruthHurts
Posted Monday, September 13, 2010 at 12:17 am | Permalink
“On Day 1 of his (Bowen) job he says and won’t and can’t stop the boats.”
provide HIS quote sayin this , and not Heraldsun’s words ,
or retract
But you have to be a realist Labor will not ‘deal with the issue’ because it’s membership simply feel to strongly about it , so the only realstic alternative is to muddle through on the issue and try to push the focus elsewhere, until eventually like the coalition on labor market deregulation it admits defeat and moves in line with the mainstream.
PEDRO
Posted Monday, September 13, 2010 at 12:28 am | Permalink
“But you have to be a realist Labor will not ‘deal with the issue’ because it’s membership simply feel to strongly about it , so the only realstic alternative is to muddle through on the issue and try to push the focus elsewhere,..”
nonsensense
I’m a Labor party member , people do care & do want issue fixed humanely under UN Convention w/0 TRP’s which C I did (and which Howards polisy did NOT)
public do hav legit fears , but not fears Abbott implies , its health & security cheks wanted that they fear not happens if boat just turn up on our mainlands That was Julia point
E Timor polisy is to save boat people from drowning , they need not then risk more boat travel , they get processed there , cheked health , security & refugee status , then get to come to oz
Ya don’t say! Glad some-one has woken up at last.
Ron – Ifind this a very disturbing issue, because on the one hand I have great sympathy with those fleeing barbarism in places like Afghanistan and the coalitiond dog whisling on the issue discusts me.
But it’s a vote winner for them so they are not going to let up anytime soon and anything short of a ‘Naru’ type solution means a drag on the Labor vote, how bigger drag depends on how many boats,.
I really think the answer lies in a humane solution somewhere between open boarders on the one hand and”Naru” on the other, but in the long run we have to do a better job of convincing lower middle income earners of the economic advanages of voting Labor otherwise these sort of issues are going to make it hard for us to win the seats needed to win elections
Puffy Dragons
Bowen did not say that
thats why TTH cann’t find that false quote either that i asked of him in #1994
Ron
I should know better than believe an msm headline!
PEDRO
Posted Monday, September 13, 2010 at 12:58 am | Permalink
“Ron – Ifind this a very disturbing issue, because on the one hand I have great sympathy with those fleeing barbarism in places like Afghanistan and the coalitiond dog whisling on the issue discusts me.
But it’s a VOTE winner for them so they are not going to let up anytime soon and anything short of a ‘Naru’ type solution means a drag on the Labor vote, how bigger drag depends on how many boats,…”
Pedro
Labor did address issue and DID undo all of Howards unhumane treatment It did not walk away and still hav not (refer details in my #1966) …..not that you’d get that impression from radical left bloggers here nor from MSN/Abbott
C I is proper set up , its under UNHCR , boat people is proper processed for health , security and complianse to convention , 4% get sent hokme , 86% pass all 3 tests
what Abbott/MSN did is zap into fact boats is still coming , well yes , but hey did NOT claim any got to our mainland cause none EVER did They got processed in CI as abov
so last piece of zig saw to neuter Abbot scares is to get boats from travelling on seas hitting out search/rescure area so they dont drown on route Hense E Timor type off -shore soluton It is OUR humane reponsible to solve , and Julia said as much , and voters been so told by her , cann’t be scared of voters on it and Julia was not
what you seeing Pedro is MSN/Abbott distorion of what i said abov is Labor past actions & future plans , that also get misrepresnt here by j/v types
Yeh I know Ron it is very hard to have a rational discussion about this issue or the ets (which I think is a bigger drag on the labor vote than asylum seekers) on this blog.
From the little I know about it East Timor seems about as “liberal’ approach as Labor can really afford, what a lot of our fellow bludgers do not appreciate is that we both want to win elections and sometimes politics is about what you can and can’t get away with.
Enjoy your posts mate always intersting keep em coming.
yep Pedro , riteon there
The Dr is in … anybody out there?
Hi senorita, good morning. it’s you and me against the world.
Ah, the CRACK ………. Boy, has she got a crack:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pms-stepdaughter-poses-in-bra-20100913-1577x.html
An Onymous Lefty has put it well.
http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/what-are-they-thinking/
Labor almost lost an election and thy are carrying on with the same shit, what are they thinking. Ph well. at least we now have a parliament that will put a stop to the sillier ideas.
When’s the next poll out
Morning Finn any significant news this morning? Seems quiet to me.
Senorita, “PM’s stepdaughter poses in bra” – this is big news as far as SMH is concerned. they call it the Naked Half Truth.
Geez that’s trawling for news who cares what stepdaughter does it’s her business
How is this woman Julia’s stepdaughter when Julia and Tim aren’t even married?
tokenyank why let the facts spoil a beatup, anything that can smear Julia or Labor in particular will do, the war continues be alert AND alarmed
Someone emailed SkyNews this morning refering to Mesma’s “To the Manor Born” attitude and how she would strut the international stage as FA Minister.
Fran and Michelle telling us how WE will interpret things…again. Tell us what you think, NOT what we might think.
Conroy very solid this morning…he’s one filter short of a strong minister.
This letter in the SMH is spot:
spot on
ThrTruthHurts
The truth hurts, doesn’t it.
Ross Gittins has a direct swip at the odd Alan Mitchell article in the AFR last Friday:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/will-to-negotiate-could-be-the-making-of-gillard-20100912-156xz.html
Had to chuckle at this headline in The Australian
‘Greg will keep the Greens in check’
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/greg-will-keep-the-greens-in-check/story-fn59niix-1225919900355
Alas, no venting about the Greens from The Australian Editorial today
Finns, If she’s prancing around in her undies, it’s gotta be StepdaughterGait.
A moderately interesting article on pokies. The part that caught my eye was this bit: there has been a expert process reviewing this industry (notwithstanding the LNP’ Senator Joyce’s penchant for using it as lavatory paper); it is not simply a knee-jerk reaction to some independents.
No doubt the Liberal’s “ferocious opposition” will be based on an appropriate policy analysis
http://www.smh.com.au/business/number-is-up-at-the-pokie-palaces-20100912-156xt.html
This is a piece in today’s Herald Sun by Alan Howe. It is a good read.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/alls-fair-as-julia-wins/story-e6frfhqf-1225919832528
The media is mistaken in assuming that Simon Crean is the Minister for ‘keeping the independents happy’.
My reading of it is that he is more the Minister for “wining back regional seats i.e. QLD”.
He gave a very intelligent AM interview where he said he wanted to ensure that everything the govt done is regionally tailored to give a better outcome. He seems like he actually wants some influence over all Departments.
If he could pull it off it would be excellent. Even when Rudd was riding high in the polls, the centralist tendencies of the Federal Environment Department had already wasted the time and greatly annoyed pterry much every person and organisation working in the field (either volunteering or professionally).
The “Canberra knows best” attitude infiltrated down to the tiniest detail of policies and grants. If the ALP govt p_ssed off a latte sipping small-l lib greenie like me then then I can imagine how people in central QLD responded.
—stops to sip latte—
Having said that about Crean, what a stupid decision to leave out Universities and Research (at least in name) from someones Ministry.
So we have instead:
Skillz Rule
Schoolz Rule
Yippee
Who’s the Minister for ABC Reform? Again this morning I heard opinion as news and the world-view of the Opposition.
A News Radio story about ceiling insulation inevitably preceded by “the Government’s bungled”, was followed by: “Even before it’s been sworn in, the Federal Opposition has found fault with the new cabinet…”
Never did an organization so need a complete overhaul to ensure adherence to its Charter – or to a new one.
I suspect you need a competitor tv network to raise the issue. Maybe Mel and Kochie can blow the lid on it. Or the 7PM report
Conroy was good on RN this morning.
I’m enjoying seeing the ministers starting to smack down the media. Gillard’s comments about Sky yesterday were gold, but I think the best comment I heard may have been Q and A last week where someone (can’t recall whom) noted that while the Oz has been appalling, worse has been the ABC cutting and pasting the Oz for its news.
Burgey
George Mega on Lateline.
BK
Mega also said this (one of THE best quotes of the year):
In other words, you can’t win an election on bogans alone.
Yes b_g, a great insight.
I actually heard on Radio during newsbreak, that an insulation company is being investigated as a result of their shoddy work causing four house fires. No mention of the Govt. Did not hear any more than that.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/gillard-lashes-out-at-media-coverage-20100912-1570l.html
Its seems like the ALP are now taking a less than precious line with the media.
Simon Crean this morning said WTTE “Get off it Lyndal”, in response to a q about plotters.
Mitch Fifield on Agenda. “We got a majority of votes”. Unchallenged by flak Gilbert.
So Hockey has changed his tune on the costings *difference of opinion*. Now he is doing his Sgt Schulz impersonation.
Infighting in the libs off to a good start, Hockey – robb ??
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/hockey-in-the-dark-on-costings/story-fn59niix-1225919871022
Victoria Greg Hunt was prattling on about that seems he doesn’t want a police investigation.
GregHuntMP Police probe fires linked to Rudd-Gillard Govt batts scheme – http://bit.ly/ailiRn about 1 hour ago via web
For all the Michelle Grattan fans out there, I thought you’d like this description of Rudd losing the Prime Ministership
Was it a beer hall putsch, or a Chinese restaurant putsch
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/from-the-boss-down-new-ministry-has-much-to-prove-20100912-1570i.html
Steve
Thanks for posting that link. When did you hear Greg Hunt suggesting police investigation not warranted?
dave, so Robb can’t get the costings right and Hockey didn’t even bother to be involved. Thats some choice
Oakeshott character assassination continues afresh.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/far-from-an-outsider-or-innocent-20100912-156uu.html
Dave 2025
I understand that Hockey had his staff numbers reduced and shifted to Abbott’s office after the leadership spill. He hasn’t had the staff numbers to run a shadow treasury.
Its all part of the sh-t sandwich that many chose to devour when Tony took the reins.
The only one who opted out was Helen Coonan. It will be interesting to see if she picks up portfolio.
blue-green
it would be nice if the heat were turned on to the coalition for a change. I doubt things are hunky dory over their in Lib Land. The Nats want a bigger share of the pie and Hockey and Robb are not best buddies. Throw Malcolm in the mix and you have a nice bit of instability.
Victoria I just took that from the tone of his Tweet. It just read as though he was disappointed.
Its funny how “common sense” has become a euphemism for “not what the scientists say is needed”.
Am I right to be cynical that a heavy hitting unionist is put in the climate change role to be protectionist and not to actually reduce emissions?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coal-industry-is-safe-says-greg-combet/story-fn59niix-1225919936683
Victoria
The coalition is still on cloud nine really. A year ago about 20 MPs thought they might lose their seats. Its only really the ones on the moderate fringe who are feeling put out (Hockey etc).
The divisions will take time to show themselves. The ALP just need to govern quietly for a while.
@ Victoria
The LNP are only 1 negative headline away from a decent internal stoush I believe. If the ALP can keep it’s stuff together until christmas the media will have to look elsehwhere for copy to fill their rags.
Blue_Green, I thought that the Heavy hitting unionists were tied up in Court today.
Ark Tribe in court 9am (9:30am EST). News and announcements as they come to hand. Signt the ‘Don’t Jail Ark’ petition: http://bit.ly/aklPZ7 25 minutes ago via web
Steve
What is that all about?
When people talk about protecting coal jobs I think about the typing pool workers and the workers at the polaroid film factory and all those people who made telex machines.
Blue_Green Liberal Party IR laws following the Cole Inquiry still possibly leading to people being jailed.
Ta. He’s a a scary looking man. I hope its not a jury case.
Scary? You ain’t seen scary until the establishment starts jailing unionists. I think it was Clarrie O’Shea they tried it on last time and that went well didn’t it.
Could someone remind me who was Prime Minister when the last unauthorised boat bearing asylum seekers reached the Australian mainland?
Laura Tingle’s take on the new ministry in the AFR:
Rod
John Howard: PM
Unauthorised boat: Exide Challenger
Unauthorised arrival: Tony Bullimore
Cost to Australia: $6 million
Laocoon
So Tingle not too impressed then. What didnt she like?
So Rabbottis expected to name his Shadowy Ministry tomorrow, meaning there is no reason why he can’t bring out his coalition agreement today.
For those who will be shocked if unionists are jailed, here is what happened when Clarrie O’Shea was Jailed by Sir John Kerr the person who sacked Gough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarrie_O%27Shea
LOL.
I seem to remember that Johnny Howard might have been the lad in power when boats were last pulling up in places like Cairns, the Kimberleys and the WA west coast, too. Can’t remember any at all during the Rudd / Gillard period.
Funny how this seems to have been lost sight of in the hullaboo about “invasions”. I guess the person drawing all those red arrows on the Lib advertisements before the election must have not noticed where they really arrived!
So strange to me that suddenly Shanahan sounds sensible and Tingle scathing.
Neither Grattan nor Fran Kelly think Gillard’s criticism of the media failure to unearth Costingsgate is fair. Journos don’t have access to Treasury modelling says Grattan. You don’t it, you just needed to keep relentless pressure on Tone on costings, instead of simpering at him and allowing him to repeat ad nauseum Boats!, Waste!, Debt!.
Why would Greg Hunt want a police investigation? It will take away his right to exist because the police will find that the installer ignored the OH&S rules plus the extra safety regulations put in place by Peter Garrett.
The real culprits will be revealed and Greg Hunt’s attack on the Govt. will be shown for what it is. Of course, the police could also investigate the deaths that occurred while Howard was in power. That could be very revealing – no safety regulations at all then.
I expect to see Cory Bernardi in the shadow cabinet. Warren Ensch will also come back in. I think there may be some moderate blood letting.
Joe to be demoted to something like health. Malcolm Turnbull- god knows. Robb to Shadow Treasurer. Abetz to be promoted (despite screwing over the Tas Lib vote).
Hunt to keep CC and Environment. Maybe even Matthias Cormann promoted. Sharman Stone will be demoted. Simon Birmingham and Jamie Briggs will be the only sensible one promoted to the outer Ministries. They will put someone more strident than McFarlane in the Resources portfolio (maybe Abetz).
I fully expect Tony to push the party further to the right. And then he can use the phrase ‘unity or death’ to quell the moderate rebels.
With the dirty mood the Liberals are in at present they would vote for death if given that choice.
Tingle’s article is very good. She draws attention to the questoinable decision to include Don Farrell and the fact that she’s given two ministry spots previously held by the left faction to the right faction.
The fact that Gillard “forgot” to include a minister for the status of women and the surprisingly small number of women on the front bench also speaks volumes.
Steve
The moderates need to develop a firmer idealogy to unify around. Until then they will be bashed from pillar to post by the conservatives.
There is no mood for dissent within the Libs ATM. Nats revolt will come later.
You mean “climate action”
. Abbott won’t want the word ‘climate change’ in his ministry.
Worth remembering possum comitatus’s piece on the insulation issue at http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/02/24/did-the-insulation-program-actually-reduce-fire-risk/comment-page-1/ on the probability of insulation related roof fires before and after the program was set up.
blue-green:
What about dinosaurs in Bronnie and Andrews?
Bludgers, some morning reading:
“All the news that’s fit to print.”
http://ozforums.com.au/forums/index.php/topic,7158.0.html
confessions – I listened to Grattan and thought she had finally lost it. Her comment about the Govt. questioning the costings was “a bit of hyperbole”. If that is what she thinks then it’s time to hang up her pencil. She obviously didn’t read Laura Tingle’s article about the liars and clunkheads nor Peter Martin’s dissection of the costings.
Absolutely loved Crean telling Curtis to “get on with it” and Conroy taking no nonsense from Fran Kelly who couldn’t hold her sarcasm back in the end when Conroy said the Telstra shareholders will like the NBN proposal. She said, sarcastically, ‘let’s hope the shareholders will like it or you’ll be in trouble’.
I want this minority Govt. to succeed even more than I did the 07 one.
Blue_Green is Barnyard going to be the Shadow of Penny Wong’s Finance Ministry. That would be the mismatch of the century.
Confessions
I reckon they will stay put.
There are now noisier and more ambitious conservatives than those two. I can’t wait to see Dennis Jensen miss out and complain again though.
I haven’t been reading this thread muhc over the weekend, but this is one obvious criticism of the Gillard Cabinet that will at least need explanation: there is no education Minister?
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/unis-hit-gillard-cabinet-changes-20100912-15703.html
As well as funding increases, our university sector badly needs reform, to cut bloated bureaucracies, and get a higher % of funds spent on research and teaching. Large armies of administrators will not voluntarily cut themxelves, so this portfolio needs a minister who will actually do something.
BH
I agree. I want this govt to be more successful, and render Abbott irrelevant.
Steve
I imagine that Banyards power is slightly greater now with more QLD nat mps. I still expect his role (regardless of his formal role) will be “keep regional qlders hating the ALP’
Well you are being a tad cynical I’ll give you that much. I often wonder what some people think should happen to the Coal industry? And in what time frame?
blue-green
That is why I hope Crean will be able to effectively negotiate the regional development portfolio. This will be the key to Labor’s success
Soc
Snap (from earlier)
BH:
Yes, the ‘hyperbole’ comment was pretty incredible. They all sooked when the PM and Rudd met in private during the campaign, yet on an important public interest issue like whether the alternate govt can fund its campaign promises, they run dead. Grattan’s attitude says it all about the incompetence of our media, and why we get idiotic pieces about ear lobes and handbags.
Geoffrey Barker writes a good piece in today’s AFR on Coalition claims of Labor ‘illegitimacy’.
He then throws in some unrelated, but amusing asides:
Dollar now over 93 cents, All Ords up 1%
blue-green:
An Abbott opposition that moves even further to the right? I don’t think I can even picture what that looks like.
confessions @2083
Let me see, now.
Reintroduce fault-based divorce, jail suicides, perhaps even consider stoning adulterers. Bring back the death penalty.
Funnily enough, when Tone gets that “mad” look in his eyes, I can imagine all of these.
blue_green, I think Abbott is too smart a politician to drop all the moderates. He’ll just move them into ‘uninmportant’ portfolios. He already started this off by putting Payne into the silly COAG portfolio.
Thanks Ari – a good laugh to start the week and especially this beautiful dig -
http://ozforums.com.au/forums/index.php/topic,7158.0.html
Did anyone else see Howard, in his running gear, talking about Govt. changing on the floor of Parliament and not needing an new election. He was leering and saying ‘there’s a precedent for it’. I thought yep, you cunning old devil, you’ll be telling Abbott exactly how to go about using that precedent.
BH
Yes, I saw it, but I’m afraid I was overcome with such a rush of revulsion at his leering expression that I missed the detail (and it really was ‘leering, wasn’t it).
Suddenly Costa is a credible source?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/far-from-an-outsider-or-innocent-20100912-156uu.html
lizzie: EEK!
Seriously though, how much further to the right can Abbott feasibly go without losing mainstream appeal, and on what issues?
Confessions
Grattan and Fran Kelly should turn in their memberships of the AJU and retire if they couldn’t work out that Abbott’s costings were false. I posted several examples of it here myself over the campaign, but more to the point, several recognised economists expressed concerns. Did they even read them?
Here is Peter Martin’s comment back on 19 August, before the election. He writes in The Age!
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2010/08/costings-is-that-all-there-is.html
Somehow, in the event that such a thing transpired, I suspect Abbott, given the absence of a World War quite apart from other things, would have rather greater difficulties than Curtin in maintaining the necessary support of the house for more than about five minutes!
The poor kid having to work with Ruddoch! Oh hang on the work was unpaid too.
Did anyone else notice the touching affection between Ruddock and New Boy Roy? Every time he appeared in the camera, Ruddock was hugging his new chum.
This was an interesting contrast with Chrissie Pyne, who is possibly so sensitive about his Adelaide Chrissie image, that he metaphorically leapt a mile from the “group hug”.
lizzie – yep and also conniving. I could see his mind working it all out but he’s reckoned without the Indies and the Greens. I think they really are determined to make it work and if Labor can keep together then it should work quite well.
I still think it could be quite exciting.
Costa, the ugly face of the NSW right – absolutely not credible. What is it about these old Labor pollies that they can’t keep their mouths closed.
Socrates:
Peter Martin and Laura Tingle were really the only ones who tried to blowtorch the coalition on their costings. Grattan was a member of the travelling press pack present when Tingle tried to ask questions of Tone, including at his NPC speech. The exchange this morning was incredible to say the least.
Confessions @ 296:
-Mega George also had a blog titled WTTE: Sorry, Tony Abbott is not fit to govern; which made that call based on the Opposition’s costings errors.
Samantha Maiden has decided to let Hockey walk away with his no care no responsibility for the numbers mantra again.
[Mr Hockey has said he was responsible for the overall debt-and-deficit strategy but that the individual numbers were a matter for Mr Robb.
Mr Hockey declined to comment specifically on these claims when contacted yesterday by The Australian, but said he shared responsibility. "I accept my fair share of responsibility for all of our policies," he said.
"The process is part of the cut and thrust of election campaigns but our numbers are absolutely right."
Mr Hockey criticised Julia Gillard's suggestion yesterday that the media had failed to prosecute the Coalition over the failure to submit costings to Treasury.
"She is just playing a political game. We stand by our costings. We stand by our determination to pay off debt and deficit.
"It's a bit rich someone who oversaw the Building the Education Revolution to give us a sanctimonious lectures on responsible budgeting.
"Julia Gillard has been elected PM but it gives her no right to give us a sermon on fiscal responsibility."]\
Phil Coorey with another interesting piece
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-20-a-lumbering-beast-that-might-just-avoid-extinction-20100912-156uv.html?autostart=1
If Iemma was still Premier and Costa was still Treasurer, NSW Labor would have a chance of winning the next state election.
I’d like to have been a fly on the wall too -
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-20-a-lumbering-beast-that-might-just-avoid-extinction-20100912-156uv.html?autostart=1
Blue-Green and Socrates
You have been misinformed about ministry names to some extent.
Kim Carr is Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research
http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/home.aspx
Turnbull getting Defence would actually be a good move for Abbott. He’d get little attention as policy is mostly bipartisan. I’d stick him there.
Shanahan went through a “sensible” phase last year, too, to the extent that his fanboys and girls started telling him he was a closet Lefty.
The headline about forming a “suitably credible cabinet” gives the game away. It’s the usual condescending Shanahan claptrap that (amazingly) sets him up as the arbiter of good taste and judgement when it comes to forming governments. It half-heartedly give Gillard a tick for trying to do play the best poker game she can, having been inevitably – it’s Labor after all – dealt a bad hand.
Then there’s the “good cop/bad cop” angle. Shanahan likes to be both. He assumes the role of senior advisor to Labor governments, trying to give them helpful advice (but only when they deserve it, in his eyes) and then turns on them when they don’t take it, ro when they muck it up. Thsi is how he earned the title “Shamaham”… it’s all so he can go in harder, later on. No point wasting ammunition at this early stage. He’s just pretending to look helpful.
Don’t be fooled.
I’d rather ten critical Tingle articles than one slightly softer Shanahan tome. You get the feeling with Tingle that she says what she believes, and can back it up. She’s no hack like Dennis, or a has-been like La Stupenda down at the Age, or Pretty Boy Hartcher at the SMH.
Fancy Grattan complaining they didn’t have access to the inner workings of Treasury! That the costings were an attempted scam was as obvious as Abbott’s ears. There was not one word of criticism from any of the “majors” about the Coalition’s hypocracy in complaining about a leak to Lenore Taylor, but suddenly forgetting that they had had Godwin Grech who was not only prepared to leak for them from Treasury, but also to lie, forge, corrupt internal processes and give false evidence to a Senate committee on their behalf. This nearly led to the bringing down of a government. It took up days and days of Parliamentary time in questions, speeches and committee hearings. A leak to Taylor about a conflict over which was the correct interest rate to charge on a hypothetical loan was small beer compared to that. If the tidbit of information Taylor printed was a “leak” then Godwin Grech was the full Dambusters.
But not a word from our denizens of free speech in the major dailies, or on TV. Their profound skill lies in thinking up something over their cornflakes and writing it up before they forget the inspiration. What an easy way to earn a couple of hunded thou! Mark Latham, Kevin Rudd, listening pat to “We will always keep interest rates lower” (whilst maintaining a straight face), and pretending something ineffably stupid had not been said at all was their raison d’etre. Not only did they not have Treasury access, they didn’t even bloody try to get it, or to probe the scammers themselves on the subject. Didn’t ask one question about the costings. They just said, “Oh well, I guess we don’t get the costings then”. Only Gittins and Colebatch said anything about it. Did any of our brave political gurus amble down to their economics colleagues’ offices and ask what they were talking about? No. So much more pleasurable for them to just tell us they werwe “bored” with the whole thing because it was a circus… a circus of their own making because they elevated the unimportant to national significance and ignored the seismic, plate-shifting stories that should have been written.
And when the Three Amigos brought the costings heist all out into the light of day what happened? They ignored it still. If we’d had a Coalition win we would now be in a position of having a minority government that was $11 billion dollars out on their own treasury Department’s calculation, trying to execute a legislative and executive program built on shifting sands and vague, uncosted expressions of interest masquerading as “policy”.
That’s the point. And that would have been a story.
Thank God we were spared the need for it.
Dr Good, all the ministry lists that have been floated around since Saturday don’t have the word “Research” in his title. I think that was just a typo though.
Interesting that Ruddock, Peter Garrett and Rod Oakeshot are all products of the same High School (albeit in different eras)!
Whoops – That would be Rob Oakeshott!
Thanks Itep.
But now I look at it, maybe I’m wrong.
Maybe “Research” does comes under
“Innovation” from now on. If that is a problem for Universities then
I suggest that they think carefully about what kind of research
they are doing.
Bravo, Bushfire B. You are one of the reasons I’m so glad I dicovered this Blog.
Anyone closer to the action know what was the “technical hitch” that delayed the ministry announcement? I’m thinking it might have had an effect on the accuracy of the lists.
Colvinius Suppose a duck would be out of the question? @penbo on hung parliaments past and present. http://tinyurl.com/2ej7oft” 2 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad
discovered, not dic covered!
Perhaps problems with Arbib, Farrell and Feeney’s fax machines when they were sending back their corrections?
Ozymandias:
Mega George’s blog post appeared after the election I believe. Not much use then.
Itep
Further explanation of the education triumvirate – second time it’s appeared somewhere. Obviously the message not getting through.
I think scientists would all agree with you, Dr Good.
Who would now have “control” over CSIRO????
steve, thanks for the link. Not being from SA, I’d never heard this one. Classic
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/minority-government-sounds-crazy-but-just-might-work/
Dr Good
I don’t see how that changes my point. Somebody has to explain who will be responsible for the university sector. Labor’s promises to the tertiary education sector in the 2007 election campaign were one of its worst areas of non-delivery. They are falling apart.
As per BH at 2071 Conroy left Fran Kelly utterly frustrated this morning – and I suspect messed up an ABC strategy.
The ABC news agenda was fairly clear today.
The instruction for Fran Kelly was to get a grab from Conroy were he stated a speculative price for individual homes to connect to the NBN.
That was to then be extrapolated into the ABC’s new modus operandi, where they take two or three words from an answer (not even sentences anymore) and completely invent a story – “NBN slug for families” is my guess at the headline they hoped for.
Conroy destroyed Kelly’s attempts methodically. Kelly’s voice actually rose an octave when she thought he had fallen into the trap and committed to $100 and dropped away in disappointment when she realised Conroy was much too smart for her and it was nearer $50 or $55.
Kelly had given the game away that her questions were very deliberately planned. She failed to listen to the answer, so when Conroy said that the copper network would be removed completely, Kelly didn’t pick that up and continued to ask her pre-planned gotcha question about people wanting to stay with copper.
Then as BH mentioned, she tried to trap him on Telstra shareholders but that too was stymied, prompting the sarcastic comment.
If they are truly desperate the ABC may try a “Telstra shareholders kept in dark” angle. This will completely misrepresent the case but that’s par for the ABC course these days.
Conroy was excellent.
Obviously the message is not washing with those who know the reality.
I guess we effectively have two education ministers now.
Or three even.
dave@2035 posted a piece about Hockey and the costings
It struck me that the dirty work re ‘the leak from Treasury’ meant the costings wouldn ‘t be released was typical Andrew Robb. He’s the fella who always comes up with dirty tactics prior to an election and this one was a doozey to keep the costings from being seen.
Joe was probably sent into the electorates and kept in the dark on purpose. Robb would have had no compunction in making up costings but Joe may have wanted a little more honesty in them. Very clever tactics by Robb and Abbott and I’m pleased they failed. Joe can now demand Treasury I reckon.
Bushfire Bill @2104 – excellent analysis, as always!
Anyone who seriously thinks the ALP will do anything on carbon reductions should read this. Industry protectionism at its worst. I wonder if Asbestos was a major export would we be delayings its demise too?
Still talking up the ridiculous CCS (that would cost ~$100 per tonne even if it worked)
Combet:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coal-industry-is-safe-says-greg-combet/story-fn59niix-1225919936683
Socrates: What’s so hard to understand?
Chris Evans
(Minister for Jobs, Skills and Workplace Relations, Senator for Western Australia)
-Minister responsible for undergraduate university.
Kim Carr
Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research, Senator for Victoria
-Minister responsible for postgraduate university. He has ALWAYS been responsible for postgraduate university.
Peter Garrett
Minister for Schools, Early Childhood and Youth, Member for Kingsford Smith
-Minister responsible for Schools and early childhood education.
Gos – Pleased you saw the Conroy interview in the way that OH and I did this morning.
Conroy refused to be talked over or allow FK to distort what he was saying. We both said well done, Conroy.
BushfireB – How right you were about Shamaham when many of us thought he had changed and would be fairer to Labor. That’s a lesson learned.
blue_green,
ahh another article that mysteriously been put up on TheAustralian!
Here’s the latest economic snapshot.
http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/treasurer-s-economic-note-%282%29/
So Hockey is now trying to position himself away from Robb in the costings debacle …
“The Great Unhinging” has well and truly begun!
Anyone want a good job at SBS?
ValerioVeo Last week at SBS before I head over to Ten Digital next week – anyone interested in my job?? http://bit.ly/bXW1DW 11 minutes ago via TweetDeck
I am not sure that you need one minister for Universities
(i.e. I am open to argument one way or another). Here
are some reasons
Coursework teaching is provided by Unis in cooperation
and/or competition with TAFEs and private providers.
Parts of Universities also undertake a very different
activity in research and research training. That is done
in cooperation and/or competition with CSIRO,
state govt operations, and industry.
The two different activities of teaching and research do not
need to have the same federal government bureaucrats
with oversight. Perhaps both will be done better
when the separate goals are clear.
Also, actually over the last few years there have been some
bold new activities and plans for Universities, eg much
increased funding for Australian postgraduate researchers
and details of plans for expansion of University education
for a wider group of students into the future.
Scroll down the SMH website to “most read” of the WA Times. Top story: Shortens Future in Balance because of Marriage collapse rumours”. Click on: story posted in 2008 and refers to his first marriage. Wierd.
And now Unis can double their bureucrats to match the commonwealth structure.
And what about the uni infrastructure- perhaps we can now have PhD student toilets and undergrad toilets too.
I am no expert but I thought the PM made the situation very clear on Insiders with regard to the education responsibilities. At least one stayed exactly were it was before.
From above
Does pollbludger count?
That what I really want. It would elevate the Defence discussion in Australia and therefore improve the quality of our strategic decisions.
I have been saying here for a while that we will probably need to spend up big soon on a Defence rejig. We need to have the public discussion before we start writing the big cheques.
Perhaps WA really IS in a different timezone
Nudge,nudge,wink,wink,SSH! TPD has a secret for you.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s3009875.htm
Blue Green
You seem to be under the misapprehension that Unis are managed by the
Federal Government.
They are not. They can build their own buildings etc, just like a commercial
enterprise or charity, or householder … without a minister looking
over their shoulder.
The Federal government has got a small bureaucracy which manages
investment of tax payer funds in research, and an even smaller
one which watches the quality of undergraduate teaching.
If you want an increase in bureaucracy then your suggestion of having
Unis managed from Canberra seems to be the way to go.
Steve
The sh-t sheets are coming thick and fast. 2010 is the year of the character assassination
Pls could someone explain for a political novice (me) why Julia is “one vote away from losing government”. Many journalists have written it but I though Labor had 2 votes up. Sorry to be so dumb.
Dr Good
Unis receive direct funding for research and research infrastructure. They also receives funding though HECS/international students etc.
But they also recieve block infrastrucutre grants. If the funding pipeline for these things are further split it will make integrated uni palnning more difficult.
Its like having a Fed minister for hospitals and one for health.
If one Indy jumped ship it would be difficult.
I think that two would need to go for her to lose the confidence fo the house.
JG would have to really stuff it to lose the confidence of the House. There will be policy fights with the Indies but I doubt a loss of confidence.
Hockey must be the Shadow Minister for no cars by the looks of things.
LiberalAus Labor splurges another $63 million on car industry http://bit.ly/dvB0vZ #MyLiberal 8 minutes ago via twitterfeed
Once again Blue-Green, the Federal government does not manage the
Unis. They are independent organisations which are vaguely non-profit,
although they do invest and manage their capital and income over the
long term. They get money from fees, from grants for undergrad
teaching, grants for research (from Federal govt, state govts, private
companies, charities, etc etc).
Eg you say that they receive funding for eg international students. Yes, they do.
They do that by charging the students fees. There is no Ministry in Canberra
that funds Unis for that.
Your suggestion seems to be that you want some big Canberra department
that manages all the money going into Unis and all their policies.
Really? Which school was that. My local school is (in)famous for churning out Fred Nile.
And Shows On, don’t forget that Iemma had fatally bad opinion polls toward the end and Costa, while a good Treasurer was equally disliked.
My point is that there are two different tasks that should be managed from
Canberra (teaching and research)
Unis are indeed split across the two. So what?
Under teaching unis are with tafes and private providers.
Under research Unis are with CSIRO, commercial R&D, charity research orgs etc.
By the way, Unis are also big players in Trade (4th largest export
industry) and in Immigration (tens of thousands of overseas
student visas per year) and in Health (teaching hospitals
need special funding and facilities) and in the regions.
Are you upset about that?
Take another simple example of an eco-tourist company operating in a national
park in the NT. They have to deal with the Minister of the Environment and the
Minister of Tourism. Are you upset about that?
Josh Frydenburg covering himself in glory in an interview with Helen Dally. Not. Kevin Rudd should be outside the tent. Why? Kevin Rudd is outside the tent. But you just said… Kevin Rudd should be outside the tent. Japan! China! East Timor!
Where the hell did the Liberals find this bloke?
Confessions
He is meant to be a good one.
Bring back Petro.
Confessions
the gist is well credentialled by arrogant.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/the-battle-for-kooyong/2006/03/24/1143083990278.html?page=3
I prefer that to the ideological hacks.
LOL! Poor old Cleveland St has a lot to live down!
Ruddock, Garrett and Oakeshott all went to Barker College in Hornsby, Hamish.
There’s a couple of rugged stories coming out of the West today. Palmer is on Q&A on ABC tonight.
G_Parker From this morning’s paper: Clive Palmer says if he really wanted to influence Brendon Grylls he’d pick up the phone. http://bit.ly/cu3Zww 10 minutes ago via TweetDeck
G_Parker And former CCC targets Brian Burke and Julian Grill say they aren’t suprised public hearings have led to a suicide. http://bit.ly/9bxnlD 8 minutes ago via TweetDeck
Tks blue_green
So it’s all part of the instability narrative.
Ah, cheers.
Crown Street actually. I’m always amazed that someone like Nile could have come from Surry Hills.
Lizzie
Yep. If an independent jumped ship they then would be hated by both parties supporters and hardly look like a strong-spined independent.
If the Greens and Libs both get hardlined in the Senate it will make it difficult for the ALP to have a strong legislative agenda though.
Is Crikey going to update the links to its ‘latest’ daily mail? The election now being Abbott’s to lose now seems a bit dated.
They’d need to find one to begin with. It’s been embarassing watching Gillard try and answer what her top priorities are. She has none.
blue-green:
Perhaps he’ll improve with experience. So far my assessment is he looks good on paper.
He’s just said (albeit indirectly) the coalition won’t be moving forward on climate change. Oops.
Mining interests being represented by Fatty Arbuckle on QandA tonight.
To make the education jumble a bit more confusing, Chris Evans (responsible for tertiary education) will be taking control of the rollout of the primary school building upgrades under the BER.
BK
I did not know who Fatty Arbuckle was, but guessed being rotund would feature. Checked wikipedia. Lol!
I got hammered by people here for suggesting that the Indies had more of a legislative agenda than the ALP.
I have seen no sense of urgency or sense of big ideas to date. I fear that JG will fall into the managerial mode, if she is not already there.
Itep
I suspect the confusing distribution of education may have been deliberate.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/man-shot-dead-in-melbournes-west-20100913-157pg.html
media-lotto : which will be the firt media outlet to say “Just … km from the Prime Minister’s house in Altona”
My prediction – SkyNews, closely followed by Herald-Sun
I am sure someone like Frydenberg has some big ideas. I hope he doesn’t keep them under his hat.
Or he may just be an overambitious cloud of hot air. We shall soon see.
In what way?
Agreed. She has been praised on all sides for her consultative methods. I believe that Rudd as “inspiration guy” and Julia as 2IC were a good combination – if only Rudd’s “it all goes through me” had not interfered. I was definitely disappointed in Julia’s climb down on mining.
blue-green
On the basis that each minister will need to consult with each other more as their portfolios may overlap at times. Therefore creating a more consultative and involved ministry, rather than being in isolation.
Victoria
Interesting point. But when it comes to the current fad of a few ‘key deliverables’ ulitmately the Ministers spend their dosh and their effort where they are accountable.
Making Ministers speak to each other is a good thing though. It is a bit sad that this point needs to be reinforced though. Cabinets tend to be a key feature of the Westminister system.
Bit of vacuous, looking forward type thing…if the HoR runs its approximate full term, the next election will be Sept 2013…which is also the expiry of the customary 5 year term of the current Governor General
blue-green
I believe Julia is going to make sure that this cabinet will operate in a much more broader consultative manner. It is the only way to keep everyone in the loop and part of the action.
Laocoon
Can she get another go?
Victoria
I hope so. It is bizzare that the process broke down.
blue-green
it kind of gives a bit of clarity as to why Rudd had to go.
Victoria
Or be read the riot act. Did no one have the courage to tell Rudd off.
b_g
I imagine so. The term of the GG’s appointment is at HM’s pleasure, so anything could go.
Having said that QB would be 71 in 2013, so she may have had enough of tea parties, consitutional crises and what not by then!
blue-green
As Julia said at the of the Leadership change. She will never discuss it. I suspect we have to wait until her and Rudd’s retirements before introspection.
oops the = time
Laocoon
There would have to be some good ones around. Will there be a mood for an Indigenous GG? We have had the military and the religious ones.
I doubt there is a mood for a Republic.
Can somebody ask Rabbott how Ministers can be faceless men? Abbott and Hockey have gone bonkers. The whole idea of faceless men was supposed to be that unelected people were exerting influence on the Party.
steve
haven’t you noticed the Libs modus operandi. Say something once. Say it one hundred times!!
I was really looking forward to the AFL / NRL grandfinals. but now I’ll have to watch Mark Arbib as Sports Minister pretending to be a man of the people. Jesus wept.
Julia has obviously rewarded him by giving him a portfolio that will let him burnish his tattered image and pretend to be a retail politician. But, of course, it’s a hopeless case. This is going to be awfully painful
Julia Gillard and Mark Butler both went to Unley High School.
Do people think the Greens embracing the more militant ‘industrial left’ and associated unions from Labor will limit their electoral appeal?
steve
key words
stop the boats, stop the waste, great big new tax, faceless men, illegitimate government.
So Rabbott will just pick the best by merit and not influenced by anybody, Victoria?
steve
The Libs are above party politics. They are honourable, honest and full of integrity. Didn’t you get the meme?
My guess is that the SMH probably pays Paul Sheahan somewhere between $150,000 and $250,000 a year for his right-wing ranting. Surely any readers who find that sort of stuff interesting defected to the Oz long ago. So what’s in it for the herald? Has anyone got any thoughts?
I did think it was more to push him outside the world of focus groups and actually have conversations with people.
b_g
If the political situation in 2013 is looking like the current one, then I suspect a lawyer with a “sound” understanding of constitutional conventions might be the go…having said that, Whitlam might have thought that about Kerr
Based on QB’s appointment, the announcement might be in April 2013
rosa
SMH probably attempts to appease both sides of peoples’ political persuasions.
Maybe they should call Arbib the “Minister for Shortie”.
Maybe, William Dean changed the nature of the purely legal role though. I think we expect more from them as statesmen these days.
VICTORIA – I’m sure that’s the theory. But I have trouble believing there are many SMH readers as far to the right as Sheahan. But, on the other hand, I suppose it’s better than having a right-wing commentator who makes any sense.
Victoria
I know many lefties who read Miranda Devine just to have someone to hate.
victoria
Geoffrey Barker in a pretty tough opinion piece in the AFR goes after this theme:
Hardly surprising when Abbott used the term “ferocious” in his “concession” speech
New thread.