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WA By-Elections

Sep 30, 2010

Armadale and Araluen and Walter Taylor

Time for a new thread. Politics watchers have had pretty big fish to fry recently, but as electoral minutiae are this site's raison d'etre, here's a review of looming events which might

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Time for a new thread. Politics watchers have had pretty big fish to fry recently, but as electoral minutiae are this site’s raison d’etre, here’s a review of looming events which might have escaped your notice. Feel free to discuss what you’d usually discuss in comments.

• Voters in the safe Labor WA state seat of Armadale go to the polls on Saturday to choose a successor to Alannah MacTiernan, following her unsuccessful stab at the federal seat of Canning. I’m wondering if the date might have been chosen so as not to clash with the AFL grand final, and whether events on that front might result in a very low turnout on Saturday. With the Liberals sitting the contest out and no significant minor challengers emerging, the only other point of interest is how the Labor primary vote holds up with talk building of a threat to Eric Ripper’s leadership. Labor’s candidate is Tony Buti, a law professor at the University of Western Australia. Buti heads a ballot paper filled out by Jamie van Burgel of the Christian Democratic Party, independent John D. Tucak (who had extremely limited success as an upper house candidate for Eastern Metropolitan at the 2007 state election) and Owen Davies of the Greens. More from Antony Green.

• On Saturday week, voters in the Alice Springs seat of Araluen will choose a successor to outgoing Country Liberal Party member (and former leader) Jodeen Carney, who on August 19 announced she was retiring for health reasons. A by-election in the Northern Territory offers interesting parallels with the federal situation, as the Labor government has been on a parliamentary knife edge since the 2008 election returned a result of 13 Labor, 11 Country Liberal Party and one independent. The government assumed minority status when its member for Macdonnell, Alison Anderson, quit to sit as an independent in July 2009 – prompting the existing independent, Gerry Wood of the normally conservative electorate of Nelson, to guarantee Labor on confidence and supply in the interests of “stable government” (there was also a brief period in which Arafura MP Marion Scrymgour was on the cross-benches). As a CLP seat, Araluen gives Labor the remote prospect of improving their position, although the 24.6 per cent margin leaves them with little cause for optimism (it should be noted that election results can be hugely variable in the Northern Territory, where bite-sized electorates make candidate factors crucially important). The CLP candidate is Alice Springs deputy mayor Robyn Lambley, described by Ben Langford of the Northern Territory News as a “mediator and dispute resolution expert”. Labor’s candidate is Adam Findlay, a chef with no background in politics to speak of.

• On October 23, a Brisbane City Council by-election will be held in the ward of Walter Taylor, which has been vacated by Jane Prentice, the newly elected LNP member for the federal seat of Ryan. The LNP have nominated a former policy officer for Prentice, Julian Simmonds, who seems unlikely to be troubled given the 21.0 per cent margin from the 2008 election. Labor’s candidate is Louise Foley, who according to Tony Moore of Fairfax has “worked in the Queensland public service during the Beattie Government as a ministerial advisor in local government, planning, transport, education, main roads and with the office of Premier and Cabinet”. Also in the field are Tim Dangerfield of the Greens and independent William Borbasi. Walter Taylor was one of 16 wards won by Liberal in 2008, with 10 being won by Labor. Lord mayor Campbell Newman of the LNP serves a fixed four-year term regardless of the numbers on council.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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3307 comments

3,307 thoughts on “Armadale and Araluen and Walter Taylor

  1. Radguy

    [As long as the Gr/La alliance/truce holds true , then we can retake the ground lost way back in ‘72]

    Gus – ’07 proved that we are a soft left country, hence our “fair go ” attitude.

    I think 5% were bedazzled by the media. This will not happen next time.

  2. Frank Calabrese

    [I’m wondering if the date might have been chosen so as not to clash with the AFL grand final, and whether events on that front might result in a very low turnout on Saturday. With the Liberals sitting the contest out and no significant minor challengers emerging.]

    You forgot last weekend was also the Queen’s Birthday Long Weekend which would’ve been the major factor, rather than the AFL Grand Final, though as with last Saturday, this Saturday also has the Royal Show as a factor – with this Saturday being the closing day, and last week being the opening day ?

  3. ruawake

    How can a Federal Govt overturn Qld legislation on Rivers? Surely rivers are a State issue?

  4. steve

    How can Qld rivers be a state issue when Rabbott and Noel Pearson spent three weeks up in Cape York making it a Federal issue? Expect to be bombarded with the Rabbott, Entsch and Pearson blathering on endlessly about their right to dig up rivers for the foreseeable future. It makes no sense the attitude of any of the three but they will carry on regardless.

  5. ltep

    The previous private members bill was based on the races power.

    It’s best not to think of issues as state issues. There are few areas the Commonwealth cannot legislate if it can be stretched to fit under one of the heads of power in some way.

  6. ltep

    Although the previous private members bill did not overturn the Qld legislation but supplemented it from my reading.

  7. Dr Bogan

    The Dr is in. What is this obsession with a Mexican millionaire? He should concentrate on his own country. Why listen to these corrupt elites whose wealth is based on the poverty of so many Mexicans?

  8. BH

    Is there anyone in WA to replace Eric Ripper? I’ve seen him on telly here and he doesn’t seem all that impressive against Barnett.

    [Gus, if Lady Gaga could wear a dress made of meat why couldn’t KW wear a coat made from cheese?]

    That was funny, Scarpat – it took the heat out of whatever argument was going on last night (haven’t had time to read it all yet).

  9. The Finnigans

    [It’d be interesting to see if/how LL is reported.]

    That was from the previous thread.

    well, Their ABC24 made no mention of how poor MT was. Instead, it was focusing MT’s point of that the NBN is too expensive and linked that Amigo from Mexico.

    Hi Senorita, yes. how can anybody take notice of that the comment by the Mexican Amigo seriously, this is a country literally ran by the Drug Barons. Of course, he would go for Wireless because there is no way they can lay the fibre network for the whole of Mexico.

  10. rosa

    The coverage given to the comments of Carlos Slim on the NBN is RIDICULOUS. What on earth did the MSM expect him to say? He has a privately-owned monopoly over the Mexican telecommunications industry. He can hardly support a GOVERNMENT initiative to build a HI-TECH information superhighway without going back to Mexico and being asked why he or the Mexican Govt isn’t building something similar. As I said – ridiculous.

  11. rosa

    I see Finnigans has already made my point.

  12. Dr Bogan

    Hi Finn
    Laying fibre in a country where some regions can’t even be safely entered by elites/govt. because they are controlled by Zapatista or EPR guerrillas or by drug cartels would indeed be impossible, not to mention the mountainous and jungle terrain of many regions. Anyone who takes advise from a Mexican elite is a fool, they are corrupt and exploit their own citizens writ large.

  13. rosa

    DR – Carlos doesn’t want to go back to Mexico and be told: “Give us feeber Carlos, or we keeeel you”.

  14. Dr Bogan

    The Mexican govt. is so neo-liberal & so controlled by the IMF/World Bank and NAFTA it is inconceivable that there would be a NBN by govt.

  15. The Finnigans

    I see that Slynews also focusing on the Amigo from Mexhiho. It does give us the Amigos of PB a bad name.

    Senorita, when is your birthday? i’ll sing you a song.

  16. Dr Bogan

    Finn
    Radio National Breakfast also to do story on Mexican amigo – geez. My birthday is Nov. 28 and yours?

  17. zoomster

    [Feel free to discuss what you’d usually discuss in comments.]

    Tssk, William. What a defeatist attitude.

  18. Socrates

    This decision is exactly the sort of reasoin why NSW State Labor deserves to be kicked out on their corrupt butts:
    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/15b-housing-project-will-be-states-biggest-20100929-15xiw.html

    This decision approves land rezoning for 7000 homes in the Hunter Valley in a spot where there are no jobs, and inadequate rail services. The claim that 60% of residents will work in the town is laughable. They will almost certainly mostly commute to Sydney or Newcastle by car, chocking up the new F3 to Branxton link soon after it is completed, wasting $300M of Federal investment. This is worse than development on the Sydney fringe, because it stuffs up the National Highway system, and then still causes more problems when the traffic hits the urban fringe. So Sydney’s problems still aren’t fixed, and now the Hunter starts getting buggered too. By this evidence, Kenneally is either just a quaint sounding puppet, or as corrupt as her predecessors.

  19. OzPol Tragic

    Good morning all.

    [How can a Federal Govt overturn Qld legislation on Rivers? Surely rivers are a State issue?]

    I’ve been trying to work that out too, ru,

    If Abbott wanted to overturn it to *protect* the rivers, he’d go via the Environment Minister’s veto and/orFranklin River- World Heritage route. But he’s not doing it for the environment; he’s trying to the area open it to mining – forget altruism; this is Tony “I Luuuv miners” Abbott! There’s also pressure (Katter & Entsch) to break non-Aborigines’ hunting & fishing restrictions (as Katter said, there are many angry white anglers in the Cape).

    My guess is Abbott will try to use 1966 “Aboriginal Referendum’s” wording; but the Q Act was framed in conjunction with Cape Aboriginal communities who want their traditional lands and hunting & fishing rights preserved, and control of eco-friendly development (eg tourist facilities) as guaranteed by Wild Rivers Legislation. Even if Abbott did manage to get it through the HoR & current Senate, Q Gov would take the issue go straight to the High Court. He could hope Q Election 2012 results in an LNP government; but by 1 July 2011, he’d have lost any chance of getting it through the Senate – and the Fed Gov would overturn the legislation.

    I think it’s just typical Abbott Huff & Puff, mainly so Entsch could win back Leichhardt, and to keep pro-development (mainly mining) Indigenous leaders like NoelP onside. The Libs are useless at policy framing, costing & “due process” (as we know) He probably has no idea of how to go about getting the Bill through the Parliament, and lacks the people skills to negotiate support – he sure won’t get Oakshott’s (lthough miners would probably bankroll the constitutional lawyers an Opposition needs to frame legislation that might survive a High Court challenge).

  20. Muskiemp

    Socrates,
    Where would you suggest these 7,000 homes be built? That is of course without upsetting someone else.

  21. Socrates

    Muskiemp

    They could be built in the already identified redevelopment areas in Sydney or on the urban fringe of Sydney or Newcastle. That will upset people, because NSW State Labor has not built adequate transport links to those places either, but this is still worse. There will be exactly the same problems when the Huntley traffic hits the fringe, plus stuffing the National Highway network. I could also add long commute times, huge waste of Greenhouse gases, etc. Building new subdivisions in the middle of nowhere means you have to build long lengths of new highway, in addition to all the urban roads you have to upgrade when you get to the urban fringe.

    Besides, that is an excuse, not a reason for this project. Huntley will see 7000 homes built over 25 years or 350 a year. Sydney needs to build over 10000 new homes PER YEAR, so this will make almost NO DIFFERENCE to Sydney house prices.

    Just because NSW State Labor has failed to make development on the Sydney fringe viable, doesn’t mean this isn’t a still worse decision.

  22. triton

    I’ve been catching up with LL last night. Haven’t finished Conroy/Turnbull yet, but I thought Conroy did pretty well and had the upper hand. Turnbull will have to do much better to “demolish” the NBN.

    previous thread:
    [SMH now (almost) corrected its 1st loss since 1941 claim]

    I move that the Leader of the Opoosition be censured for misleading parliament.

  23. Muskiemp

    However how does that make this a corrupt act?

  24. rosa

    TRITON – Bits I heard, I think Conrad did very well. Loved his reference to Turnbull living in a Potts Point bubble – lot of mileage in that.

    I wish everybody would stop thinking that Turnbull is some sort of mental giant and remember the line from Citizen Kane: “It ‘s not hard to make a lot of money – it that’s all you set out to do.”

  25. John Reidy

    [What is this obsession with a Mexican millionaire?]
    Has the ABC or the OO asked the second and third richest men – Bill Gates and Warren Buffet – think about the NBN, actually I think that Gates is on record as backin something similar to the NBN.

  26. my say

    rosa said.

    [wish everybody would stop thinking that Turnbull is some sort of mental giant and remember the line from Citizen Kane: “It ’s not hard to make a lot of money – it that’s all you set out to do\]

    yes , sometimes people are just in the right spot and the right time., and then of course there is wealth that is handed down, sometimes a business is started a few generations earlier or longer.

  27. my say

    [26 John Reidy
    Posted Thursday, September 30, 2010 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    If you find someone who agrees with the gov, there is no story to tell.

  28. Laocoon

    I havent read the Huntlee material but this line in the SMH report seems, in the absence of an identified employment base, to be a heroic assumption bordering on the not credible:
    [LWP estimates up to 60 per cent of residents will work in the town…]
    Coles, Woolies and a few shops…what else?

  29. my say

    Adam Brant is on APAC today with his first speech 10 am unfortunately have to go out.
    I would like to hear Walkies, so if any one knows anything would they say, i get the feeling he will just talk about gambling.
    So far he is a big disappointment for me, he does not answer emails, probably has thous. in his box so i will give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

    Hope he gets his act together if he is representing us here,
    there are lots of things the South needs.

  30. my say

    p.s. i would also love to hear the new Muslim members speach, i wonder what he will discuss it would be very nice to listen to.

    I am sorry for my ignorance but what is his name and which electorate is he.

  31. Laocoon

    my say

    Ed Husic, member for Chifley

  32. BK

    Laocoon
    Funny that yesterday you asked me if I had received an answer from Roxon on homeopathy and other quackery funding and now in the Adelaide Ragvertiser up pops this story.
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/homeopathy-we-shouldnt-all-pay/story-e6frea83-1225932014000
    In the article Roxon’s representative said that government does not fund these practices (he used Medicare item numbers to make this argument).
    Mt argument is that government DOES fund them via the 30% rebate on privat health insurance costs. Many funds include quackery cover and therefore, at least, indirectly the government supports them.

  33. Rod Hagen

    Araluen is an interesting Alice Springs electorate. It contains a mix of middle and upper income suburban housing west of the Stuart Highway in a triangle bounded by Bradshaw and Larrapinta drives, an area in the east between the Highway and the Todd where a lot of “town” Aboriginal people live, some areas of new subdivisions south of “The Gap”, and the Town Camps of Yarrenty-Arlterre , Inarlenge, Anthepe, New Ilparpa, Karnte and Ilyiperenye.

    It ought to be a lot closer in terms of the vote than it is, but that would require a substantial turn out of highly motivated Indigenous voters. Unfortunately Labor is very much on the nose in the Town Camps because of the continuation of the Intervention, the extent to which it has been embraced by the NT government, the takeover of the town leases, etc.

    Last time around the Greens almost out equalled Labor’s vote (526 Green 618 Labor compared to 2470 for the CLP First pref). Only 74.6% of registered voters actually voted.

    I suspect that the number of people registered in the Town Camps is a small fraction of those eligible. The mobile polling booth that services them only accounted for the grand sum of 69 votes. The last population figures of the particular Camps within the electorate that I saw indicated a population of 450 to 500 residents (figures are higher with visitors, suggesting that you would expect a couple of hundred more voters than appeared last time). The mobile booth that services the camps was the only one that Labor actually won last time around.

    Warren Snowdon did MUCH better at the polling places that service this area in the latest federal election than the last Labor assembly candidate managed. Barbara Shaw, a prominent Indigenous activist (anti-Intervention) scored very well at these booths too.

    Given that there is no Greens candidate this time around Labor will do significantly better on its abysmal 1st pref count this time than in the last NT election. The divisions amongst the Libs over Leo Abbott’s candidacy in the Fed election will help Labor a bit too.

    They have one heck of a lot of ground to make up, though, and in the present climate the Labor’s policies on Indigenous affairs etc are likely to cost them. I can’t see Labor really having a chance.

  34. Socrates

    Muskiemp

    It is true sometimes in NSW State Labor you can’t see the corruption for the incompetence. but in this case the corruption (in a philosophical sense, I am not implying a crime) was in the earlier use of former Labor politicians as paid lobbyists to get the development approved. They were not planenrs or engineers; their only “skill” was in getting access to politicians. See
    http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/nsw/content/2006/s2683929.htm

    I would argue that if this development had been properly assessed it would never have been approved.

  35. John Reidy

    When thinking about Bill Gates and Buffet, someone else ocurred to me – how about this guy…
    murdoch slams slow broadband
    Anyone else here heard of Rupert Murdoch?
    Some quotes from the Nov 2006 article
    [RUPERT Murdoch yesterday condemned the quality of Australia’s broadband services as a disgrace, warning the nation would be left behind unless the federal Government and Telstra spent billions to increase download speeds.]
    it gets even better
    [“When you have broadband – real broadband, not the type they’re talking about here – where you get, say, 20Mbps of data into your home, it changes everything,” he said.]
    and this
    [He said the Government and Telstra should be spending “$10 billion or $12 billion on it to reach every town in Australia; they do it in Japan, they do it in South Korea, we should be able to do it here. We are being left behind and we will pay for it.”]

  36. Vogon Poet

    Where can I watch these speeches? Is it on the ABC?

  37. Laocoon

    Indeed BK. I noticed this line in particular:
    [Mr Hunter said doctors could use non-specific Medicare numbers to charge for homeopathic treatments while taxpayers also subsidised treatments through private-health rebates.]
    I wonder what a “non-specific Medicare number” is? A slush fund? Dio – you there?

    (i googled Ian Hunter; interesting character. SA seems to have a very broad distribution of pollies BK)

  38. BK

    Albo and Barnaby on Agenda.
    Joyce is a proven fool and he has nothing to disprove this today.

  39. Shineybum

    Dear Mr Turnbull

    I just tried to watch your appearance on last night’s Lateline program, but I gave up because my slow ADSL connection is not up to streaming video. I live 25kms from the Federal Parliament of Australia, but my local exchange does not support ADSL2.

  40. BK

    Yes, Laocoon, Ian Hunter is an ex-immunologist so obviously he knows nothing about the subject.

  41. BK

    Joyce is a (N)national embarassment.

  42. Socrates

    Further to my comments on Huntley New Town, sure enough all the relevant departments DID criticise it:
    [However, some of the greatest critics of the Huntlee New Town come from within government.

    The Roads and Traffic Authority criticised “inconsistencies” in the plans and dubbed employment estimates “questionable”.

    It savaged traffic demand modelling and said more lanes would need to be built on the New England Highway.

    “New England Highway is at capacity and in the absence of the F3 to Branxton Link Rd, an additional two lanes in each direction will be required on the highway,” it stated.

    Cessnock Council criticised the infrastructure plans and was stripped of planning powers over the project.]
    http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/boom-town-state-approves-18bn-huntlee-project/1429999.aspx

  43. madcyril

    From Lateline last night.

    [
    MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well let me just address the digital divide issue. The fact is most Australians are connected to exchanges that are ADSL2-enabled, so they can get – if they want to take it up, they can get pretty fast broadband now.
    ]

    So how come, even though I live no more than 2 kms from an exchange I can’t get ADSL2. What rubbish. This just shows Turnbull really has no idea.

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s3025517.htm

  44. Vogon Poet

    [Adam Brant is on APAC today with his first speech 10 am unfortunately have to go out.]
    Where can I watch this? Thanks.

  45. madcyril

    Vogon, if your internet is up to it 😀 you can watch here

    http://www.a-pac.tv/

  46. Vogon Poet

    That article on Murdoch’s opinions in regards to broadband before the ALP was in government is interesting. Has he actually voices his opinion in regards to this since the NBN was announced?

  47. Vogon Poet

    Thanks… ye sI can get ADSL2 here thankfully :p

  48. madcyril

    Well it didn’t take Abbott long long to jump on the Mexican bandwagon

    [
    Opposition leader Tony Abbott agrees with Mr Slim, saying the billionaire was echoing Coalition policy.

    “We’ve been saying for months now this is going to be a great big $43 billion white elephant that Australia doesn’t need,” he told ABC Radio
    ]

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/tony-abbott-demands-cost-analysis-for-the-national-broadband-network/story-fn3dxity-1225932108257

  49. Socrates

    John Reidy 37

    That is a great find! I am curious that none of our investigative journalists don’t ask Murdoch questions about his former views of broadband now? It woudl also be interesting if someone asked Tony Abbott whether he agreed with Rupert Murdoch’s view of broadband in Australia?

  50. Vogon Poet

    Though my mac doesn’t have the plugin for that page

  51. madcyril

    [
    Though my mac doesn’t have the plugin for that page
    ]

    I blame Malcolm Turnbull 😀

  52. John Reidy

    I have forwarded Rupert article link – in case they weren’t aware of it, to Conroy’s office.

  53. OzPol Tragic

    This decision is exactly the sort of reasoin why NSW State Labor deserves to be kicked out on their corrupt butts:
    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/15b-housing-project-will-be-states-biggest-20100929-15xiw.html

    Socrates, do you know where these houses are in relation to the planned Coal-to-liquids plant/s planned for this area?

    NB I know there are such plants planned for the Hunter, as they were mentioned in the NSW “secret documents” on coal etc developments uncovered by FOI – in SMH last week, I think (I posted on it but didn’t keep the link) – but google’s links mention them only in passing.

  54. Vogon Poet

    Hey just out of interested can anyone help me I am looking ofr an article… I can’t remember if it was in the SMH, Crickey, or if it was a Possum article or something or what but it was about the Howard governments waste. Can anyone help me out?

  55. BH

    [Joyce is a (N)national embarassment.]

    BK – the bloke is a joke so we just sent a note to Gillan. Thanked her for the early morning laugh and to say that, as she was laughing at the end of the interview, she must think that Joyce is as crazy as we do.

    Can you imagine him in an international setting or does he just put it on to keep his place as the best ‘retail politician’ Tone has.

  56. OzPol Tragic

    John Reidy @ 37

    Wow. Thank you. We should all use Murdoch’s quotes in the article at every available opportunity. I certainly will.

  57. confessions

    [howespaul | 46 seconds ago
    David Miliband bows out gracefully – if only all Labor politicans around the world could do that]

    I’m assuming he’s referring to Mark Arbib. 😉

  58. vik

    [howespaul | 46 seconds ago
    David Miliband bows out gracefully – if only all Labor politicans around the world could do that]

    🙁

    This’ll be picked up by the Libs to restart the “unstable Labor government” meme.

  59. OzPol Tragic

    [That article on Murdoch’s opinions in regards to broadband before the ALP was in government is interesting. Has he actually voices his opinion in regards to this since the NBN was announced?]

    VP, the reason for Murdoch’s astonishing backflip may lie in c4years’ development of communication technology conversion, and its implications for near-instantaneous internationally streamed-via-personal-computer media (inc film downloads), which he failed to foresee as a threat to his newspaper/Fox/Sky/etc empire when he made this decision:

    [Mr Murdoch also ruled his Australian arm, News Limited, out of the race to snare the new 30-channel B licence for mobile television.

    After briefing shareholders on the seemingly limitless possibilities of next generation phones and mobile devices, Mr Murdoch told Media he was not interested in bidding for the licence, which is planned for auction next year. “We would sell our content into those services,” he said, “but we are not interested in owning those platforms. There are more attractive deals elsewhere.”]

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/murdoch-slams-slow-broadband/story-e6frg996-1111112529377

  60. vik

    [howespaul | 46 seconds ago
    David Miliband bows out gracefully – if only all Labor politicans around the world could do that]

    … And it’s a particularly bad time to make such a comment after yesterday’s nice image of Kevin & Julia sitting together listening to Ken Wyatt’s speech.

  61. BH

    Nobody is going to ever tell me that Conroy is a dud – I’ve just read the LL transcript.
    Conroy left Turnbull for dead. Malcolm’s reputation as being the font of all wisdom on just about everything seems to be a bit shallow. Good to see Tony Jones actually challenging Liberal assumptions.

    [Stephen Conroy, come back to this wireless question: how will – since most people – or many, many people, like 25 per cent, Malcolm Turnbull says, people access the internet wirelessly through their telephones and iPads and other devices. How will it help them to have this fibre connection?

    STEPHEN CONROY: Well, Malcolm claims all the time he’s a techhead. Malcolm, if he’s a real techhead and is gonna be honest will admit that fibre is the best future-proof technology going around. It’s not gonna run out in 10 years, otherwise Malcolm’s gonna be claiming next that all those submarine cables built of fibre, all those interstate routes built of fibre are gonna have to be dug up and replaced by wireless.

    Fibre is the best future-proof technology. It works undersea, it works in the trunk roots and it will work to people’s homes.

    Yes, people want mobility. It’s tragic then that what Malcolm Turnbull and the Coalition’s current policy says is, “We’ll build a fixed wireless network.” That’s not a mobile network. Tony Abbott, Tony Smith, continue to argue about building a fixed wireless network, not a mobile network.]

  62. evan14

    David Miliband is doing the right thing, because his brother will be a colossal disaster and so within 2 years, the British Labour Party will be begging for the other Miliband who SHOULD have won that leadership ballot. 😉

  63. confessions

    [… And it’s a particularly bad time to make such a comment after yesterday’s nice image of Kevin & Julia sitting together listening to Ken Wyatt’s speech.]

    It’s also inappropriate given his role in Rudd Removal.

    Howes should just shut up about Rudd and let the government get on with governing.

  64. Vogon Poet

    [David Miliband is doing the right thing, because his brother will be a colossal disaster and so within 2 years, the British Labour Party will be begging for the other Miliband who SHOULD have won that leadership ballot. ]
    Why will Ed Mil be a disaster?

  65. confessions

    BH:

    Conroy was clearly across the detail of the NBN, and could refute all of Turnbull’s claims. Mal wasn’t happy at the end of the interview. He didn’t even say good night or thanks or whatever, just sat there glowering.

  66. dovif

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/labor-flouts-developer-cash-ban-20100929-15xii.html

    NSW Labor accepts $75,000 from a company of a builder, who just happen to be applying for development approval …..

    NSW Labor, incompetant one day, corrupt the next

  67. confessions

    [The official review of Regional Development Minister Brendon Grylls’ handling of a contentious Freedom of Information request involving Queensland billionaire Clive Palmer will be fast-tracked after a decision by Information Commissioner Sven Bluemmel.

    Mr Bluemmel will investigate whether Mr Grylls, leader of the WA Nationals who receive hefty political donations from Mr Palmer, had complied with an FOI request to disclose details of all meetings between the two between February last year and last May.
    …..

    Mr Grylls has faced intense speculation over his contact with Mr Palmer – who gave the Nationals $110,000 in 2008-09 – and whether it had any bearing on a decision by the Department of Environment to drop a $45 million environmental bond on Mr Palmer’s Balmoral South iron ore project in the Pilbara.. http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/8040771/grylls-foi-probe-high-priority/ ]

    Should be interesting.

  68. Laocoon

    …and while on state governments, from the AFR

    page 12: Bligh as a checkout chick: does this really play positively with Qld voters????

    page 13: Perth Arena cost blow out from $160m to $483m and c.3 years late…reources boom constraints? Or other forces at work

  69. Fiz

    Turnbull’s problem is that he really can’t do negative effectively at all. Turnbull does well when he is being positive, especially about something he believes in – thus the much more positive perception about him when he talks about climate change.

    I suspect Malcolm thinks nationwide fibre-based broadband infrastructure is actually a very good idea for both business and personal needs throughout this century, which is why when he talks negatively about it he is lost at sea. His heart isn’t in it.

  70. confessions

    [latikambourke | 38 seconds ago
    funny moment on #doors this morning when MT kept calling the NBN the ‘National Broadcasting Network.’]

    Did anyone see or hear this?

    If you aren’t across the details of your portfolio it’s very easy to be brought undone.

  71. dovif

    Confession

    There has been so many people who spoke out against the NBN, that there has to be some truth to what they are saying

    I read a report that less than 1% of internet traffic are currently business related or related to buying or selling of goods, more than 99% involve downloading, streaming of videos, twitting, web chat and games.

    It does seem a lot to spend on something that is 99% used for pleasure

  72. John Reidy

    Just watched LL.
    One point re wireless – usage is growing – I believe the 25% figure quoted by Tony Squires for wireless Internet usage (I wouldn’t call it broadband) is correct.

    More and more mobile phones, laptops and devices like the ipad will want to use wireless for connectivity.
    However if that spectrum is used for fixed Internet services as a replacement/upgrade for ADSL then there simply will not be enough wireless spectrum to go around.

    The NBN will (or should) look like this
    1) fibre backbone to every suburb/town.
    2) fibre to every house for fixed Internet connectivity. Typical speed 1Gbps/100Mbps
    3) in house wiring or wi-fi for connecting within the home, domestic wi-fi typically has a range of 20m. Typical speed 10-100Mbps
    4) mobile wireless services using 3G,4G or wifi (and other future technologies).Typical speed 1Mbps – 10Mbps.

  73. Fiz

    In fact, if Malcolm wants to be PM I think he’s going to have to wrestle it from whoever is the next Lib PM. I can’t see him winning govt from opposition, simply because he can’t point out the negative very well at all – it sits uncomfortably on him. His only other option is to win by being the inspirational voice that takes the Australian people on some terrific journey… but I’m not sure he is up for that either.

    Perhaps Malcolm will be one of the greatest political disappointments of the early 21st century.

  74. Dr Good

    AEC 2010 results web site has been updated.

    It seems that the results are now “final”. Up until yesterday each page had a warning that “results are not final”.

    This is good.

    However, for some reason the full preference counts and the preference flow results are not yet published. Normally they get published on the web pages within one month of the election. No sign of them yet for any seat. No sign of any overall stats on preference flows.

    Even more odd is that the pages that say that the preference flows are not available now also have the statement “These results are final”.

    Eg here is the page for national overall preference flows
    http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseStateTcpFlow-15508-NAT.htm

  75. adam abdool

    About Howard’s latest US Speech:

    ……….He hoped the English-speaking world saw this as a time “not to apologise for our particular identity, but to firmly and robustly assert it”: “One of the errors some sections of the English-speaking world has been to confuse multi-racialism and multi-culturalism.”

    This scum continues to look at issues which differentiates us rather than binds us. Moral and ethical values know no colour, no language, no religion. He just cannot understand this. When he said that we do not want people here who threw their children overboard (or wtte), it clearly indicated that in his mind and heart he believed that parents from a particular background were heartless. Now everyone knows that parental instinct is about one of the few things that is most consistent throughout the world. I have yet to come across a single parent who does not love his/her child and will give his/her life for their child.

    I have to be honest with all of you – I don’t know who to hate more – Howard or Abbott? I give up.

  76. Boerwar

    JR
    Are there issues with wifi in one home potentially interfering with that in the next home?

  77. Dr Good

    dovif

    How much is spent on roads and what proportion of that is for pleasure?

  78. confessions

    dovif: I don’t know what the current internet usage is, but the whole point of the NBN is about the future.

  79. Boerwar

    adam abdool

    Howard is an anglophile stuck in pre WW2 mind sets.

    He is a recalicitrant pebble in several of history’s major tides: By the end of this century more than 50% of England will be black, the majority language in the US will be spanish, the dominant empires will be non-english speaking, and AGW will be a fairly horribly reality.

    The real pity for Australia is that Howard had, and used, the opportunity to hold back a sensible response by Australia to these world trends.

  80. confessions

    PM presser coming up soon.

    Am genuinely surprised the Green Loans ANAO report hasn’t been given coverage this morning! I expected wall-to-wall Labor incompetent stories today.

  81. adam abdool

    About the NBN, do we have any here from Tassie who have the new NBN? I wanted to know about the speed both in surfing and downloading.

    We have the Telstra elite plan which is Ok but I don’t mind spending a few more dollars for speed is is twice (let alone hundred times) my existing speed.

  82. brisoz

    @dovif/75

    Link or it didn’t?

    Large Sights/companies like Ebay, Gaming distribution platforms such as Sony, Xbox Market place and Steam.

    They all businesses or related to business who are investing online.

    Alot of people also use Word of mouth to create sales, not necessarily online yet.

    Copper network, which was meant for communications, has now become an entertainment/prosperity/Entertainment/etc Industry. The same will happen for NBN.

    Wireless originally was meant to be used for mobility or hard to reach places, but now you have entertainment devices like iPhone and Blackberry with entertainment software, videos and games.

    Your forgetting the reason why Broadband was becoming popular in the first place, VIDEO, which is mostly entertainment.

  83. BH

    [Mal wasn’t happy at the end of the interview. He didn’t even say good night or thanks or whatever, just sat there glowering.]

    confessions – that came through in the transcript and Jones actually ran a good interview

  84. kakuru

    [ I have to be honest with all of you – I don’t know who to hate more – Howard or Abbott? I give up. ]

    adam, you can hate them both equally. No need to choose. 😉

  85. kakuru

    [ Mal wasn’t happy at the end of the interview. He didn’t even say good night or thanks or whatever, just sat there glowering. ]

    As I recall, Turnbull had pulled off his earpiece before the end of the interview, as Jones was winding up. Very poor form.

  86. Boerwar

    dovif

    Good point.

    Please tell Abbott because The Wrecker wants to spend $6 billion so that people can mostly have better fun. He has done no cost/benefit analysis and no feasibility study.

  87. confessions

    PM presser about regional health according to Sky. Will include Crean and Roxon as well.

  88. dovif

    Dr Good 81

    I would say at least 5/7 of road usage is for work related, people getting to work, people going home and people travelling between jobs (Monday to Friday) and the Saturday and Sunday is people get to shopping center (buying goods) and restaurants

    So I would say 90%

  89. Gusface

    prof dovif

    ta for the laffs

    are you now emeritus at hogwarts?

  90. dovif

    brisoz

    Yeah, there are business whose business is gaming, who invent game that are played over the internet, I once spend 12 hours straight playing one of those game…. while it was enjoyable, I am not sure if that was very productive for the Nation or very good for me, as I went to bed with a headache

  91. dovif

    Boerwar

    I have never said better internet is a bad idea

    But $43 billion is a lot to spend on anything

  92. brisoz

    dovif/94,

    It’s money for companies, it’s money for the broadband ISP and taxes goto the Government.

    It’s another form of Entertainment, which is growing and you lied, It’s very productive, especially in games like Starcraft 2 where you have to think on your feet.

  93. EMOL

    If there were to be a mainly wireless network, would the current communications towers in the suburbs be able to provide the service? Would there need to be more communications towers? What about in populated rural areas such as some of Victoria e.g Gippsland?

  94. Punna

    dovif

    Your argument is so compelling you might get a gig helping out MT who seems to be having a few problems …

  95. Rod Hagen

    One interesting thing about Ken Wyatt’s kangaroo skin coat.

    One of the significant cultural divisions within Aboriginal Australia involves those who used animal skins for clothing and those who did not.

    (Please note that I am not writing this as a criticism of Ben Wyatt in any way. Areas he is associated with by descent and currently represnts are ones where kangaroos skins were worn as a matter of course.)

    In eastern Australia, and on the west and south west coast people regularly used cloaks and wraps made from animal skins (mainly possum skins in the east, but kangaroo skins were used too in both areas) for warmth, and for ceremonial purposes. Skins were even used in Victoria to provide waterproof coverage of humpies.

    In central Australia, though, and the western and south Australian desert areas, such usage, especially of kangaroo skins, runs completely counter to traditional Indigenous law. The manner in which kangaroos are dealt with after killing is clearly prescribed in myth and requires the kangaroo to be cooked whole with the skin intact (after removal of the intestines for separate cooking, and the leg sinews for use as cord, the breaking of legs, and sometimes the severing of the tail). This, of course, completely destroys the skin.

    Back in the 1980’s when I was working on matters relating to the potential impact of the Roxby Downs project on local Indigenous groups I interviewed an old Southern Arrernte man called Tom Brady, who sang me one of the long ranging song cycles (this one runs from SW Victoria through the Roxby Downs area all the way to the Arnhemland coast – it even passes through the Araluen electorate in Alice Springs on the way!). It dealt with the travels of a dreaming hero who originally came from the central part of Australia, but then spent a substantial period in the south east (where kangaroos were skinned before cooking so the skins could be used).

    When he reached what is now the Roxby Downs region he killed two kangaroos and spread out their skins to dry in the south eastern manner. He had “forgotten” the law of the region he was now in. The Kokatha, Arabuna, and those people to the north and west of them, follow the central Australian law with respect to kangaroos. The skins blighted the earth, creating the great salt lakes we now call Lake Torrens and Lake Eyre.

    Back when I was living in Alice Springs a few years before this one of the town Aboriginal women who worked for the Alice Springs legal aid service got married. Unlike most Indigenous “town” people at that time she had a close relationship with traditionally oriented people from the bush, and asked a group of Pitjantjatjara families to attend her post wedding party. It was a wonderful event until one of the Pitjantjatjara men asked what the meat in the kebabs that were being barbecued was. On being told it was kangaroo there was great consternation. The kangaroo , quite obviously, had not been butchered or cooked in the correct fashion and some of the Pitjantjatjara people had eaten it. They were terribly upset and left looking very troubled. Needless to say, Maria (the bride) was terribly upset, too.

    Its for reasons like this that I wish the media and politicians would get down to the nitty gritty far more often, and go and speak directly, preferably through interpreters, with Aboriginal people in remote areas when developing policy, rather than following a “one size fits all” approaches like the Intervention in Central Australia, based primarily on the views of highly assimilated and western educated people from far way in east coast Queensland.

  96. BH

    [He hoped the English-speaking world saw this as a time “not to apologise for our particular identity, but to firmly and robustly assert it”: “One of the errors some sections of the English-speaking world has been to confuse multi-racialism and multi-culturalism.”]

    adam abdool – thanks for keeping us up to date on his US visit. I hope we’re not paying for it and I can’t understand why Beasley had to have him at the Embassy.

    It’s sad that the old devil still can’t accept changes in society. We can see where Abbott is coming from everytime Howard speaks.

  97. John Reidy

    Yes there can be interference between local wifi networks, they are generally low powered – and so have a limited range, and there are various channels available so there can be several wireless networks in the same area.

    Certainly there is a lot of traffic that could be categorised as entertainment on the net, and it will grow – particularly if you look at the volume of data transferred rather than the the number of users or connections.
    However business and non entertainment use (whatever that means) is very important, and when judged by the number of connections or transfers is much higher than 1%.

  98. OzPol Tragic

    [There has been so many people who spoke out against the NBN, that there has to be some truth to what they are saying]

    Woops, dovif! (Il)logically speaking, you’ve swallowed a red herring, been side tracked & jumped on someone’s bandwagon! What you’ve written above is an example ofArgumentum ad populum aka the authority of many aka a bandwagon fallacy of the 20 million can’t be wrong type.

    It’s correctly classed as a red herring argument

    [A “red herring” argument is one which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy…

    This fallacy is often known by the Latin name “ignoratio elenchi”, or “ignorance of refutation”. The ignorance involved is either ignorance of the conclusion to be refuted—even deliberately ignoring it—or ignorance of what constitutes a refutation, so that the attempt misses the mark]

    Of the sub-group, Latin name “Argumentum ad Populum”, known as the “bandwagon fallacy”.

    The Bandwagon Fallacy is committed whenever one argues for an idea based upon an irrelevant appeal to its popularity …

    A genuine instance of the bandwagon fallacy is the argument that you should vote for a certain candidate because the majority of people support that candidate, or the candidate is popular. This is the origin of the phrase “to jump on the bandwagon”.
    http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html

    I do most sincerely recommend you check the site at the end, in particular, the “Appeal to/Argument from…” list (LHcolumn index under A, 2nd half)

    Saves a lot of egg on the face!

  99. dovif

    Brisoz

    People who are playing those games, and Starcraft 2 is great, are already with IP providers, the moving from a current IP provider to a NBN IP provider does not generated more tax revenue and more money for IP provider, it might mean moving from one IP provider to another.

  100. confessions

    PM announcing a new round of health and hospital fund for health infrastructure applications.

  101. Rod Hagen

    (Whoops – that should, of course have read “Ken Wyatt”, not “Ben Wyatt” (curse the absence of an editing capability here!)

  102. lizzie

    [dovif
    Posted Thursday, September 30, 2010 at 10:21 am | Permalink
    Boerwar
    I have never said better internet is a bad idea

    But $43 billion is a lot to spend on anything]

    Please don’t let us perpetuate the furphy that the NBN will cost taxpayers $43bn.
    This was part of Malcolm’s rant on LL last night, and it was repeated on AM by Abbott this morning. Even though I have heard it explained twice by Conroy, the interviewer let A get away with it.
    Conroy said there would be an upfront cost of around 27bn and the rest would be raised in govt bonds. Mal said that’s still the taxpayer. Dolt!

    The two ABC interviewers on AM this morn were shameful, on all aspects. Let Abbott get off scot free with lies.