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Gillard 71, Rudd 31

Phillip Coorey of the Sydney Morning Herald reportedly reports that Julia Gillard's winning margin over Kevin Rudd in this morning's Labor leadership vote has been 73-29, coming in at t

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Phillip Coorey of the Sydney Morning Herald reportedly reports that Julia Gillard’s winning margin over Kevin Rudd in this morning’s Labor leadership vote has been 73-29, coming in at the higher end of market expectations.

UPDATE: The official announcement has actually been that the margin was 71-31. Headline amended. Apologies that comments are currently off, which has been necessary to manage Crikey’s notoriously shaky bandwidth.

UPDATE 2: Ongoing apologies for the offness of the comments. Essential Research has come in at 56-44, up from 55-45 last week and 54-46 the week before. Labor’s primary vote is down a point to 32 per cent and the Coalition’s is up one to 49 per cent, with the Greens steady on 11 per cent. Further questions have 39 per cent blaming Julia Gillard for Labor’s problems against 18 per cent for Kevin Rudd, 23 per cent for others in the party and 10 per cent for the media. Reactions to the Gonski report are typically social democratic, with 61 per cent preferring more education funding to a return to a budget surplus and 68 per cent supporting the report’s recommendations as described against 13 per cent opposed.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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4059 comments

4,059 thoughts on “Gillard 71, Rudd 31

  1. shellbell

    If Arbib did go back to Summer Bay, he could see, across Pittwater, Currawong which was bought by the NSW Government in doubtful circumstances just before the 2011 state election.

  2. confessions

    Yes, victoria that’s it.

  3. This little black duck

    Surely the biggest question for QT today is whether the Floor Mop will chance another prime ministerial bollocking.

  4. roaldan1000

    Grattan (I apply the same manners to her that she does to the PM) today defended her fellow journalists on the basis that what they wrote was “partly” true. That is how far the media has descended now – writing things that are “partly” true makes it okay if the other elements are not.

    That said the PM should be very clear today on what happened when. If she does not the story continues to drag on.

  5. sustainable future

    This has probably already been discussed.

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/mtr-teeters-as-cash-dries-up-20120301-1u4fw.html

    I am proud to be Victorian – can we, (and possibly SA, Tassie and the ACT) secede when the rest of the states vote Abbott in please? The smarter and nicer people (check ABS stats for levels of education and charity work/ donations to back up my claims for Victorians anyway) can leave the dumb and selfish bogan states to reap as they vote, and set up a nice social democracy in the south. Refugees from the north will be allowed if you let us send you Sam Newman and Andrew Bolt (& we’ll throw in Peter Costello, Kroger, Fryenberg and Mirrabella for free).

  6. Tom Hawkins

    We could also chip in a dollard each sustainable future if we could palm off Jeff Kennett to NSW where he rightly belongs

  7. victoria

    sustainable future

    Dont forget to include Kelly O’Dwyer

  8. Tom Hawkins

    dollard = dollar but you get my drift

  9. This little black duck

    triton,

    Koala stamp for you.

  10. Son of foro

    [Refugees from the north will be allowed]

    Everyone in Victoria under the age of 30 is from Queensland anyway. And everyone in Queensland over the age of 80 is from Victoria.

    There’s been an unfair cultural convection flow going on for years.

  11. Aguirre

    Don Argus? Not much of a start there, quoting a businessman who doesn’t like carbon pricing.

  12. lizzie

    I’m sure others have noticed that in Slipper’s new “answer the question and nothing but the question” world, the LOTO is framing his snarly attacks within almost unanswerable questions.

  13. triton

    [Koala stamp for you.]

    Thanks very much, Ducky. Of course it was pure brilliance on my part; I got no clue at all from the subject of the MPI and the frequent practice of starting QT on that subject.

  14. Diogenes

    I don’t watch question time but I’ve noticed that both the Labor people here and the very Lib Bolt are both very complimentary about Slipper as Speaker. He must be doing something very well to keep both sides happy.

  15. Rex Douglas

    Bowen should be moved as he clearly doesn’t have a plan B

    The govt should be getting on with formulating a new asylum seeker policy that eliminates people smuggling/queue jumping

  16. Tom Hawkins

    [The govt should be getting on with formulating a new asylum seeker policy that eliminates people smuggling/queue jumping]

    There is so a plan already. It’s called, in some quarters, The Malaysian Solution.

    Abbott rejects that plan as it might be a solution to the problems you have identified.

  17. DavidWH

    Dio I listened to a replay of yesterday’s QT and Slipper seemed to be being fair to both sides. Personally I think a MP should receive a warning before being asked to leave however at least everyone knows the rules and they are being evenly applied.

  18. Diogenes

    Of there were no leaks, there would have been no Carr story.

  19. Aguirre

    Ah right, I get the strategy now. Quote as many people as possible who have complained about carbon pricing, Make dubious claims, get the questions and not the answers reported on: “The Opposition grilled the Government over costs blowouts due to the Carbon Tax etc etc”

    Give it about 6-8 hours and we’ll have concern trolls calling that a failure of Gillard’s in not explaining/anticipating/preventing/denying emphatically or early enough. It doesn’t matter if she did or didn’t, it’s her fault that these false claims are out there, and they will continue if she blah blah blah…

    And off we go again – Hockey with a bit of rabble-rousing.

  20. The Finnigans

    TheFinnigans天地有道人无道 ‏ @Thefinnigans Reply Delete Favorite · Open
    As Kevin Rudd used the #MSMhacks to destabilize PM Gillard. Abbott simply just relies on #MSMhacks to do the same #qt #auspol

  21. The Finnigans

    [there would have been no Carr story.]

    Diog, you crashed your carr!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. triton

    [The govt should be getting on with formulating a new asylum seeker policy that eliminates people smuggling/queue jumping]

    Oh, is that all it has to do, Rex? I’m sure a competent new minister can whip up a good plan for that soon enough.

  23. gigi

    Yvette d’Ath always reminds me of a famous French cartoon character called
    becassine.

  24. Rex Douglas

    Tom Hawkins,

    The Malaysian Solution would’ve worked – but would’ve/could’ve doesn’t get the job done – time to move on

  25. sustainable future

    Tom Hawkins – Kennett counts as a ‘wet’ nowadays, but would happily send him north if he took Stockdale and David Davis with him. Stockdale was the iron fist behind the Kennett court jester hand-puppet. Kennet is just a very arrogant, dumb born-to-rule type who is so dumb that he doesn’t realise how dumb he is ( like Sam Newman). Kennet has ‘Liberal Loser’ tattooed across his forehead, so we could keep him as a reminder that Victorians don’t like economic rationalists.

    Victoria – I almost said O’Dwyer, but I’d keep her for comedy value – she obviously doesn’t believe the crap she spouts, but as part of the debating team will spout it anyway (a bit like Greg C Hunt). She’s hilarious to watch, is useless/harmless, and make people hate Libs – so I vote we keep her. The ones I want to swap are dangerous – I don’t think she is because once all her mentors left she’d have no ideas of her own (not that that wills top her talking with that Aliens mouth of hers).

  26. This little black duck

    Yvette is also known as the Petrie dish.

  27. triton

    DavidWH
    [Personally I think a MP should receive a warning before being asked to leave]

    So they need a fresh warning each day to know they shouldn’t be disruptive?

  28. victoria

    sustainable future

    You make a reasonable argument. 🙂

  29. Tom Hawkins

    [The Malaysian Solution would’ve worked – but would’ve/could’ve doesn’t get the job done – time to move on]

    You are right on both accounts Rex; the MS would have worked and it is time to look for another plan.

    Do you have any suggestions?

  30. Diogenes

    Finns

    That kangaroo tried to kill me.

  31. Rex Douglas

    triton.

    sitting on ones hands sulking is not the answer

  32. Leroy

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/1600/

    [AUSTRALIAN CONSUMER CONFIDENCE VIRTUALLY UNCHANGED AT 113.5
    (UP 0.1PTS IN A WEEK)

    Article No. 1600 – This weekly Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence Rating is based on 1,166 face-to-face interviews conducted Australia-wide with men and women aged 14 and over last weekend, February 25/26, 2012.: March 01, 2012

    Consumer Confidence is virtually unchanged at 113.5pts (up 0.1pts in a week), according to the Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence Rating conducted last weekend (February 25/26, 2012). Consumer Confidence is now 0.5 points lower than a year ago, February 26/27, 2011 (114.0).

    Consumer Confidence has barely moved with declining worry about Australia’s economy over the next five years offset by falling numbers of Australians saying now is a ‘good time to buy’ major household items.

    …………

    Gary Morgan says:

    “Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence is virtually unchanged at 113.5 (up 0.1pts) on the weekend before the leadership showdown between Prime Minister Julia Gillard and former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Incumbent Prime Minister Gillard easily won the ballot 71-31.

    “The uncertainty created by the leadership speculation may have contributed to the mixed results for this week’s Consumer Confidence. In 3/5 categories those answering ‘can’t say’ was at its highest for 2012 — including both questions relating to personal financial situations.

    “While fewer Australians thought they were ‘better off’ financially than this time last year (27%, down 4%), Australians were less worried about the Australian economy in the future with 20% (down 5%) expecting ‘bad times’ for the next five years and 33% (down 1%) expecting ‘bad times’ over the next 12 months. What will concern the Australian retail industry is the rising number of Australians saying now is a ‘bad time to buy’ major household items (19%, up 1%) — now at its highest for the year so far.”]
    more in the link

  33. Rex Douglas

    Tom Hawkins,

    Of course not that’s the govt challenge

  34. DavidWH

    Dio we are all limited by bounded rationality. Basically on the Carr issue we all have to consider the issue without all the information so our conclusions are likely to be less than optimal. Who’s cinclusions are more rational than all the others is pretty well impossible to know unless we have more information than we now have.

    Personally I believe the rational conclusion lies somewhere between the Aussie article and the PM’s “the story was completely incorrect” but the fact is I don’t really know and doubt few if any PB’ers do either.

  35. The Finnigans

    TheFinnigans天地有道人无道 ‏ @Thefinnigans Reply Delete Favorite · Open
    So Gerry wants us to spend to save him. He’s the laziest businessman, improve values, services in his shops we’ll spend – http://t.co/PaaqF2Om

  36. Leroy

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4750/

    [L-NP (52%) LEAD OVER ALP (48%) UNCHANGED
    BEFORE GILLARD CRUSHES RUDD IN ALP LEADERSHIP SPILL

    Finding No. 4750 – This face-to-face Morgan Poll on Federal voting intention was conducted over last weekend, February 25/26, 2012 with an Australia-wide cross-section of Australians aged 14+ including 981 electors, of all electors surveyed, 3.5% did not name a party.: March 01, 2012]

    I await others dissecting it re preferences (nominated vs past elections), followed by foolish tweets on a poll using a format no one takes too seriously anyway.

  37. triton

    Slipper was pretty lenient on Macklin then.

  38. DavidWH

    Triton 3787 yes. It a place for robust exchanges and one warning seems about right or one general warning when warranted.

  39. gusface

    poor tones

    i think he has a crush on bob carr

    🙁

  40. The Finnigans

    [That kangaroo tried to kill me.]

    just for the killer dolphin 👿

  41. This little black duck

    I notice that the Floor Mop didn’t get to ask the Carr question.

  42. The Finnigans

    Slipper has just whacked Poodle Pyne, Kaapow!!!

  43. triton

    DavidWH
    [It a place for robust exchanges and one warning seems about right or one general warning when warranted.]

    If many members are understandably a little excited over something then I agree. But if the Speaker calls for order and that the member will be heard in silence (i.e. a general warning), then I don’t think that any further warning is necessary before ejections begin.

  44. DavidWH

    Triton I think it de

  45. centaur009

    The labor party is getting ready for the big assault ala Gallipoli…ah the waste of it all!

  46. triton

    Oops, I didn’t take in the general warning part of that post.

  47. DavidWH

    Sorry fingers not working. Triton I think it depends on what circumstances are happening. Some days are more robust due to issues at play. However that’s what the speaker is there for and under our system you have to respect and accept his judgement.

  48. Rex Douglas

    Julie Bishop, the Tracy Grimshaw of the parliament

  49. lizzie

    JulieB is so fired up she can’t stop talking, even through Slipper.

  50. Aguirre

    I’d be surprised if Bishop gets to the end of her speech before being sat down. She’s just using the SSO to run up a list of insults.

  51. triton

    I thought all this Carr stuff was settled and there’s nothing in it.

  52. Bushfire Bill

    Sit her down… she’s rambling. Sounds like one of those one-minute member’s statements just before QT.

    Gillard is the only one who can make an offer of a ministry to anyone. She did not make an offer to Carr.

    Therefore…

    THERE WAS NO OFFER!

    Jesus, how many times does Gillard have to point that out?

    Bishop is not speaking to the motion. She sounds like a school girl having a hissy fit in the gym.

  53. This little black duck

    I spoke too soon.

    Anyone left on the government benches?

  54. Bushfire Bill

    OH right, so now if Gillard gives Smith the FM, then that’s proof he heavied her.

    I give up.

  55. triton

    I don’t know, Ducky, but it looked like a mass exodus including the PM.

  56. Marrickville Mauler

    nice sarcasm from Slipper about whether there is a seconder …

  57. This little black duck

    BB,

    Turn the sound off. Works for me. And then you won’t have to listen to Whiney either.

  58. Bushfire Bill

    [OH right, so now if Gillard gives Smith the FM, then that’s proof he heavied her.

    I give up.]

    See reason (n) for why Gillard is gone from comment #3714:

    [(n) Whoever she appoints she is {weak|scared|under the sway of faceless men|lacking authority|lashing out|defying the Press Gallery|finished}]

  59. Bushfire Bill

    Pyne really sounds quite bitchy. Would a dickhead like this be tolerated in any other parliament in the world?

  60. lizzie

    Bushfire

    I noticed yesterday, Abbott (and now JulieB) keep to the motion by talking rubbish/accusation/smear and ending with “that’s why, Mr Speaker, etc.”
    Very clever, but doesn’t make their accusations any less vicious.

  61. DavidWH

    I’d be shocked if it was anyone else but Smith.

  62. imacca

    Oh dog. Just caught the end of Bishops rant. This woman’s style is just so petty and schoolgirl bitchy. And she expects to be taken seriously as shadow FM.

    Pyne is just pathetic.

    Like this SSO is the most important thing the parliament could be doing at the moment.

    Oh and now he’s saying Shamahan has put the agreed facts?

  63. victoria

    Poor Albo he has to listen to this drivel

  64. Bushfire Bill

    Pyne says, “Mr. Speak, the Australian people deserve better than this.”

    For once I agree with him.

  65. victoria

    Frankly what does it matter to the oppositom who the PM speaks to about anything. This is beyond ridiculous

  66. imacca

    Albo up. Hope he tears them new ones.

  67. dave

    The Grand Project to see the Murdoch family with mouths full of ashes continues to come all just fine.

    The Guardian does a great job at putting the boot into ‘lil Jimmy Murdoch –

    James Murdoch does not have a role at News Corp. He is the shadow man. Nobody talks to him – not even, at least not meaningfully, his father. (They once spoke two or three times a day, managing the affairs of their world.) His siblings shun or pity him. He has not existed as a force, and hardly as presence, since the meltdown of the News of the World last summer.

    And, to say the least, there is no possibility that he will inherit the top job.

    The reality is stark: everybody in the company blames James for the terrible things that have happened in London. They blame his father for falling under James’s sway – but blame James more for swaying him.

    In a way, it’s even starker than that: since he left the top job at BSkyB at his father’s behest and took over News Corp’s operations in Europe and Asia, James has become the most disliked man in the company.

    This is partly because, for all the obvious reasons, Murdoch’s entitled children would breed a predictable resentment. But additionally, it is because James is an extraordinarily cold, abrasive know-it-all.

    “Who would have thought anybody could make Lachlan look good,” said one of Murdoch’s close executives, referring to the contrast between James and his brother Lachlan, who once was the heir apparent – and, in his moment, another headquarters albatross. But starker still, within News Corp, there is a structural analysis of why everything in London went so wrong – with James as the faulty linchpin.

    …The story, however, is not completely over. He will not be the chief executive of News Corp, or much of anything else, but even from jail, if that is where he finds himself, he will be one of four siblings who each control 25% of their birthright company.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/29/james-murdoch-exit-news-international

  68. imacca

    This SSO is really just the Fibs having a hissy fit that Julia wont follow their agenda.

    Disgust really doesn’t cover it.

  69. This little black duck

    Albo is doing a nice line in ridicule.

  70. This little black duck

    Short one Bronnie for 60 minutes.

  71. Aguirre

    Bronnie kicked, and gets a couple of verbal boots up the bum from Albo on the way out.

  72. This little black duck

    Did Albo just say that the future of the Liberal Party was walking out the door?

  73. dave

    Yep – As bronnie left 🙂

  74. muttleymcgee

    Loved Albo’s comment when Bron got the Skipper wtte:

    “A very popular decision on both sides of the house, Mr Speaker”

  75. Bushfire Bill

    [Frankly what does it matter to the oppositom who the PM speaks to about anything. This is beyond ridiculous]

    Shanahan has instructed them to defend his honour.

  76. The Big Ship

    Rex Douglas @ 3792

    [sitting on ones hands sulking is not the answer]

    Is Wilkie doing this in preparation for performing ‘The Stranger’ on himself?

  77. muttleymcgee

    Skipper = Slipper

  78. DavidWH

    Wilke will probably get his revenge at an optimal time.

  79. sprocket_

    new Morgan Face to Face

    ALP 50 LNP 50 (last election distrib)
    ALP 48 LNP 52 (elector allocated)

    981 voters

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4750/

  80. Gorgeous Dunny

    BW3745
    [Messers McClellend, Ferguson and Carr have have not impressed others nearly as well as they have impressed themselves.]

    I’d agree with that. However, I think Ferguson would be harder to dispose of with his minerals industry contacts. Maybe the best option might be to trim the sails a bit. Leave him with minerals, but give energy to Combet’s super ministry, which links it more with the future (not my idea, by the way, Grog suggested it with his piece on the last reshuffle).

    Tourism could also go to a rising junior, linking in with the more senior trade ministry.

  81. kakuru

    The Finnigans:

    [ So Gerry wants us to spend to save him. He’s the laziest businessman, improve values, services in his shops we’ll spend]

    Yep, ol’ Gerry wants us to rack up our credit card debt so he can make more money.

    Nice evisceration by Michael Pascoe:

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/retail-market-working-as-it-should-20120301-1u4se.html

  82. sprocket_

    I notice Wilkie has joined Katter in abstaining from many of the votes now occurring in the House.

  83. Leroy

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/03/01/media-briefs-jill-singer-gets-the-slip-leveson-latest-mtr-defaults/

    [Thursday, 1 March 2012
    Jill Singer gets the slip … Leveson latest … MTR defaults …]

  84. Leroy

    I believe Wilkie is away today, attending his mother’s funeral.

  85. Leroy

    http://stephenkoukoulas.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/australian-house-price-falls-continue.html

    [Wednesday, 29 February 2012
    Australian House Price Falls Continue, But Business Investment Booms]

  86. Son of foro

    [Wednesday, 29 February 2012
    Australian House Price Falls Continue, But Business Investment Booms]

    More money going into the productive side of the economy, that’s very good news.

  87. Burgey

    3839 – sprocket – they must have polled families of Caucus members.

  88. Centre

    Albanese absolutely put the cleaners through Julie Bishop in QT.

    Not only has Bishop failed to ever ask a decent question on foreign policy in the house, her leader has categorically implied that she knows nothing about foreign affairs.

    How could Julie B just sit there and take such humiliation? Maybe she was enjoying it. 😈 😆

    Something else from QT today, Abbott looks more and more like this by the day :mrgreen:

  89. Bushfire Bill

    Jacqueling Maley manages to repeat the Opposition allegations re. Bob Carr, while telling us all they’re untrue (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

    Classy lady. Regurgitate all the Shanahan bullshit, then say the charges are damning… but only if they’re true (heh, heh).

    [If you believe the reports (which Gillard has repeatedly urged people not to), when Senator Mark Arbib abruptly quit his senate spot on Monday, Gillard got on the phone to the former NSW premier and invited him to hit the road and come on down to C-Town (although it’s possible she used different words).

    Intelligent, statesman-like and at least as tall as Barack Obama, here’s a guy who could represent us overseas, she no doubt thought.

    But in an effort to fill the foreign minister spot vacated by Kevin Rudd with an ”outsider”, she created a most unhappy Vegemite in the form of her Defence Minister, Stephen Smith. Or so the stories go.]

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/bobs-not-running-and-pms-left-by-the-side-of-the-road-20120229-1u3hl.html#ixzz1nq6cQldI

    Not much above the quality of the New Weekly.

    No effort to set the record straight, or do her own investigation. Just a rehash of crap… why?

    Because Tony Abbott was told to say it by Dennis Shanahan.

    Disgusting.

  90. Son of foro

    [Intelligent, statesman-like and at least as tall as Barack Obama, here’s a guy who could represent us overseas, she no doubt thought.]

    No doubt? No doubt at all? Not even the tiniest bit of doubt in Maley’s cracked mind?

  91. Bushfire Bill

    [No doubt? No doubt at all? Not even the tiniest bit of doubt in Maley’s cracked mind?]

    Only of the snarky kind.

  92. Diogenes

    Foreign Affairs jobs are heavily vetted. I don’t believe Gillard would have gone anywhere near offering Carr the job before that.

    Both deny she offered him FA.

    Meh.

  93. victoria

    Btw did Crook vote with the govt on the SSO today?

  94. Bushfire Bill

    [Foreign Affairs jobs are heavily vetted. I don’t believe Gillard would have gone anywhere near offering Carr the job before that.

    Both deny she offered him FA.

    Meh.]

    Mesma set up a nice one today: whoever gets FA, it’s because they’ve strong-armed Gillard. Apparently there is no other possibility, except that she’s PM with the largets majority of any leadership challenge and can make up her own mind, but nah, couldn’t be that. A third of the caucus hate her!

    Neat, and no way out (in Mesma’s fevered imagination… and wasn’t she fevered today?).

  95. ltep

    Victoria, he voted with the Opposition.

  96. victoria

    Thanks itep. I missed the division.

  97. daretotread

    Dio

    You raise a very interesting question
    What role DOES security have in vetting foreign affairs (and Defence) appointments.

    Imagine a situation where there was a Greens government – could someone suspected of being pro Palestinian be made Foreign Minister? or if there were say tensions with another country eg Malaysia, China, could a person who had formerly been a citizen of that country become Foreign Minister (or Minister for Defence)? Would someone with a strongly anti US position be allowed to be in either role???

    Just curious

  98. Toorak Toff

    Bloggers here may not like Mr Pyne, but the Greens don’t seem to mind him. They split their preferences between Pyne and the ALP candidate, Left-aligned university law professor Rick Sarre, in Sturt at the last election.

    Mind boggling.

  99. BH

    Just a quick one – have received an email from head office that members will be able to vote in Labor Community pre seclections for local Councils soon. That’s good news.

  100. ltep

    TT, it might just be that a good number of Libs protested Abbott’s leadership by lodging their first preference with the Greens candidate, but ultimately could not allow their vote to go to the ALP.

  101. Leroy

    http://www.news.com.au/national/law-allows-women-to-see-pharmacist-for-birth-control-pill-supplies/story-e6frfkw9-1226286363622

    [Law allows women to see pharmacist for birth control pill supplies
    By Malcolm Farr, National Political Editor
    From: news.com.au
    March 01, 2012 4:24PM

    Law allows women to get pill resupply from pharmacist
    Means “patients will not have to risk missing medication”
    Will be conditions to the sale of the non-prescription drugs

    A NEW law will come to the rescue of women who have run out of birth control pills when they are a long way from their doctor but feeling close to the man in their life.
    Women caught short will be able to get resupplied by a pharmacist without needing a doctor’s prescription under legislation passed by the Senate today.

    The same will go for people who need anti-cholesterol drugs to keep going, but have run out of stocks, according to the National Health (Fifth Community Pharmacy Agreement) Bill.]
    more in the article

  102. Greensborough Growler

    Diogs,

    Good point.

    There seems to be a push against Smith from ‘stakeholders’ if you follow some of the comments by Wurth this morning in the Oz. Could be the real story behind the Oz anti Carr campaign.

  103. Toorak Toff

    I’m talking about the Greens’ official HTV card.

  104. Leroy

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-01/employee-jeers-abbott-during-workplace-visit/3862954

    [Employee jeers Abbott during workplace visit
    Updated March 01, 2012 16:40:54

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott was confronted by frustrated worker Steven Bailey when visiting a building supply company in Canberra.]
    Video link!

  105. victoria

    Leroy

    The gentleman was short and sweet and straight to the point!

  106. Brian Mc

    BH @ 3859
    [Just a quick one – have received an email from head office that members will be able to vote in Labor Community pre seclections for local Councils soon. ]

    No, not as fast as that. Only City of Sydney Council election at this stage.

    A good article in the SMH by Meridith Burgmann (a friend of mine from Union Days) on how it could be a good step for the NSW ALP.

  107. The Finnigans

    TheFinnigans天地有道人无道 ‏ @Thefinnigans Reply Delete Favorite · Open
    Smithy (the pussycat) is the new ruthless faceless man who heavied PM Gillard? Gimme a break #auspol

  108. billie

    A casual perusal of Bob Ellis blog http://www.ellistabletalk.com shows that he thought Bob Carr had been offered the NSW Senate vacancy and had been offered Foreign Affairs. Ellis takes pains to establish his closeness to Carr and the centre of Labor power broking

  109. ltep

    How long will it take the media to suggest Gillard’s office put that man up to jeering at Abbott 😉

  110. Leroy

    http://inside.org.au/gonski-the-game-changer/

    [Gonski the game-changer

    The Gonski report has brought together an enormous body of evidence to show why equity must be at the centre of school policy, writes Chris Bonnor, and has decisively shifted the terms of the debate

    29 February 2012]

  111. gusface

    billie

    bob is lobbying to be the next ambassador to the usa

  112. The Finnigans

    [A casual perusal of Bob Ellis blog http://www.ellistabletalk.com shows that he thought Bob Carr had been offered the NSW Senate vacancy and had been offered Foreign Affairs. Ellis takes pains to establish his closeness to Carr and the centre of Labor power broking]

    Billie, i must be blind, the only thing i can see is a missing wedding ring 😉

  113. victoria

    The Finnigans

    Same here!

  114. The Finnigans

    Well Vic, if you chuck your wedding away, so will I. Our OH can go and please themselves.

  115. daretotread

    TT

    Pyne is or was of the moderate persuasion and is a little greener than most libs. I imagine you will find him VERY progressive on issues such as Gay rights. Not all that surprising that Greens quite like him.

    Watching him on QT yesterday – he clearly has had voice training- much less whiny.

    Must be planning a challenge:)

  116. lizzie

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-01/gillard-admits-speaking-to-bob-carr-over-vacancies/3862972

    [Prime Minister Julia Gillard has, for the first time, publicly confirmed that she did speak to Bob Carr earlier this week as part of her search for a new senator and foreign minister.

    Ms Gillard is fighting off claims that a rebellion by key frontbenchers forced her to drop plans to parachute the former NSW premier into the plum job.

    Mr Carr released a statement yesterday confirming that “party officers had talked to him about the possibility of him filling the NSW Senate vacancy and be able to be considered for the office of foreign minister”.

    But he added that “Prime Minister Gillard had definitely not made any offer about the foreign affairs ministry nor had any one on her behalf”.]

  117. daretotread

    sorry 🙂

  118. Marrickville Mauler

    yes we can trust Bob Ellis to be accurate!! FFS. Just ask the Abbott and Costello families.

  119. victoria

    the Finnigans

    My OH has never worn a wedding ring. I dont wear mine either. I wear a newish ring given by my OH a few years back, but it isn’t my wedding ring

  120. Gorgeous Dunny

    Hold everything!

    Ch7 News reckon the opps are making progress with their heavy probing. Apparently they got the PM to admit she’d spoken to Bob Carr on the phone, “…in contrast to what she’d said yesterday.” Time to call in Hercule Brandis SC, surely?

    What she said earlier, AFIK, was WTTE “Don’t believe everything you read in the papers.” and “That story is completely untrue.” She didn’t say anything about talking or not talking to Carr in those answers.

    She didn’t say anything about the conversation just now, as far as I know. Very likely it could have been,

    “Look Bob, sorry about all the fuss. We can’t just parachute you into FA. If you want to be a Senator, fine, that’s NSW’s call, anyway.”

  121. lizzie

    Not a good week for Clive. All his toys are failing to amuse him.
    [The Hyatt Regency Coolum Golf Resort on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast has been placed into voluntary administration.

    The resort’s owner, billionaire Clive Palmer, last week terminated Hyatt’s management contract and the case has gone to the Supreme Court in Brisbane.

    Mr Palmer, who bought the property last year, says Hyatt failed to manage it properly.]

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-01/coolum-resort-placed-in-administration/3862660

  122. geoffrey

    even bob ellis knew about the carr offer – this is more than a leak, it is a warragamba overflow. i wish the govt and most pb’s would stop blaming the msm for bad publicity -the government is mainly responsible for its own publicity (carr would know that). carr is the grand-daddy of the labor malaise. nsw will suffer for years for his failure to provide infrastructure, and his style of government. he is not only part of the problem, he is the problem – somehow he escape scrutiny, but thank goodness we are spared his pontificating comments at a federal level. of course arbib would recommend him.
    julia? a bit power drunk, and punch drunk. the steely fighter in a fight of her own creation, spun out by forces she does not acknowledge or understand. thank good plan b is in the chamber – the sin bin will help chasten KR. o for this purgatory to end.

  123. BH

    [o, not as fast as that. Only City of Sydney Council election at this stage.]

    Brian – Yes, I did get excited. Just reread it and see it’s a trial Are the SCC elections held at the same time as the others in the State. We’re due for them in September I think.

    Anyway good first step and I hope it’s successful.

  124. Greensborough Growler

    GD,

    Tomorrow the Cabinet re shuffle is announced.

    Heavy probing will be revealed as pushing shit up hill.

    The caravan will have moved on.

  125. BH

    [Ellis takes pains to establish his closeness to Carr and the centre of Labor power broking]

    Not any more, billie, from what I heard.

  126. victoria

    GG

    Any guesses on the reshuffle?

  127. jenauthor

    HI folks. I was really impressed at the opps in today’s QT NOT!

    I am seriously thinking of sending a bill for my wasted taxes.

  128. lizzie

    If abolishing capital letters is the new black, I’m not wearing it.

  129. 1934pc

    [Tomorrow the Cabinet re shuffle is announced.]

    Put Kevin back as FM, that will stuff them all UP!.

  130. Greensborough Growler

    vic,

    All the families troubles will be settled.

  131. BH

    [She didn’t say anything about the conversation just now, as far as I know. Very likely it could have been,

    “Look Bob, sorry about all the fuss. We can’t just parachute you into FA. If you want to be a Senator, fine, that’s NSW’s call, anyway.”]

    GD – wouldn’t that have been the line to take in responding to the Oppn and the MSM.? That’s how Howard used to do and they all just shut up.

  132. victoria

    jenauthor

    The coalition have shown they really have nothing to offer the Aust public. All they are good at doing is smearing the PM. As far as i can tell, Abbott is on a mission of mutually assured destruction

  133. Jackol

    Put Kevin back as FM, that will stuff them all UP!.

    It certainly would, and at this point might not be a bad idea.

    It would obviously be magnanimous and offset dumping Carr/McClelland from a Rudd-support point of view.

    If Stephen Smith is staying in defence to finish the job he started, then there is a question mark over who would actually be a good choice for FM.

    It would show a lot of confidence on Julia Gillard’s part.

    Meh, I dunno.

  134. victoria

    GG

    I am not so sure that it will be happy families

  135. Greensborough Growler

    vic,

    Get a copy of Godfather 1. It’ll be like the ending.

  136. victoria

    GG

    I cant remember the ending of part 1.

  137. Gorgeous Dunny

    Followed up the Ellis blog writings. All over the place -wouldn’t place too much on reliability. Seems to have badly fallen off Rudd – thought he was once a fan. Still thinks Beazley is a hero and Crean a troublemaker.

    Seems to think there was something in this Carr thing and that Smith vetoed it, seemingly on the grounds that Condi Rice fancied him.

    Can’t make much sense of it, except that Ellis may not be such an insider as he believes.

  138. ShowsOn

    My mum wants to censure Julie Bishop.

  139. Gorgeous Dunny

    [geoffrey
    Posted Thursday, March 1, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    even bob ellis knew about the carr offer – this is more than a leak, it is a warragamba overflow]

    You can turn a phrase well at times, geoffrey.

  140. ShowsOn

    [GG

    I cant remember the ending of part 1.]
    There were credits where it lists all the actors and crew that made the film.

    I like the credits for Part II better.

  141. ShowsOn

    McClleand would be a good minister for foreign affairs.

  142. leone

    Sigh! Sky News is STILL pushing the Bob Carr story. They happily admit the PM said she didn’t ask CArr to fill the senate spot and that CArr confirmed this, then they just keep going with ‘but some things still need to be explained…’

    I think a lot of journos, news hacks and PBers need to be reminded – or informed for the very first time- about the way a senate vacancy is filled. So read this –
    http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/Factsheet06-CasualvacanciesintheSenate/$File/Fact+sheet+06+Casual+vacancies+in+the+Senate.pdf

    The PM does not, repeat, does not choose a new senator. The NSW parliament has that duty and with a coalition government you never know what might happen. Think back to the troubles Whitlam had with state governments electing dodgy candidates.

    If the PM talked to Bob Carr so what? She might have wanted his advice on possible candidates.

    The procedure for filling a casual Senate vacancy rules out ‘hissy fits’ from federal Labor MPs. All that crap about Smith vetoing Carr is bulldust. I can’tbelieve that all those learned journos and highly educated Opposition MPs don’t understand the process.

    Someone insignificant in NSW Labor probably blabbed to someone else who blabbed to Shanners that the PM had talked to Bob Carr. Shanners then put two and two together, came up with eleventy three and rushed to get his garbage into the papers.

  143. Greensborough Growler

    Showsy,

    I see you are a movie boof as well as a real life boof.

  144. ShowsOn

    Or what about Bob Carr?

  145. DavidWH

    Leone so you don’t think NSW Labor discussed the vacancy with anyone in federal Labor?

  146. Leroy

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/03/01/turnbull-again-misleads-the-public-on-nbn/

    [ANALYSIS, TELECOMMUNICATIONS – Written by Renai LeMay on Thursday, March 1, 2012 16:40 – 1 Comment

    Turnbull again misleads public on NBN

    analysis Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has this week again made a number of misleading and factually inaccurate statements in a series of interviews and comments about the Government’s National Broadband Network project, on topics ranging from the technology used in the project to its cost and retail broadband prices.]
    good detailed response

  147. Oscar

    [ Sigh! Sky News is STILL pushing the Bob Carr story. ]

    Forget about it. It will be old news tomorrow – as will the real story that these media mongrels hope most people will have missed today … which is the heir of Mordor falling on his sword after having his various crimes and misdemenours exposed so publicly in the UK.

    What odds he’ll turn up back here in the colonies shortly? After all, compared to our usual media bods, James Mordor is a perfect paragon of honesty and integrity!

  148. Gorgeous Dunny

    I earlier mentioned the big task ahead for Combet in soothing industry and employees concerns about the impact of carbon pricing.

    It does run deep. I had a passenger, a meatworker, in the cab. He claimed to have been addressed by management that their current power bills of $5000 per month will increase by 100%. I think Dare reported something similar from some manufacturers in her area.

    That figure doesn’t seem to make sense from the Treasury estimates. From memory they calculated a maximum of about 15%, probably before offsets or compensation allowances kicked in.

    Either Treasury has got it terribly wrong, or someone is spreading misinformation.

  149. ShowsOn

    [Leone so you don’t think NSW Labor discussed the vacancy with anyone in federal Labor?]
    This morning I heard that Michael Fullilove is nominating:
    http://www.lowyinstitute.org/StaffBio.asp?pid=975

    I feel he would be a better candidate. Handing a casual Senate vacancy to Warren Mundine just seems too tokenistic for my liking. He should be pre-selected to a safe house seat instead, like Reid or Blaxland.

    The first indigenous Labor MP should be elected by the people rather than just appointed by the NSW parliament.

  150. ShowsOn

    [Showsy,

    I see you are a movie boof as well as a real life boot.]

    [I have always preferred the reflection of the life to life itself.]
    – Francois Truffaut

  151. Mod Lib

    [Sigh! Sky News is STILL pushing the Bob Carr story.]

    As they absolutely should, unless they are meant to be an ALP Press outlet.

  152. Oscar

    [ Either Treasury has got it terribly wrong, or someone is spreading misinformation. ]

    Hmmm … now let me think … which one is more likely … 🙂

  153. Oscar

    [ As they absolutely should, unless they are meant to be an ALP Press outlet. ]

    Aren’t they supposed to be a news outlet?

  154. Mod Lib

    How is it not news that the PM said talk of her talking to Bob Carr was “completely untrue, completely untrue” only to find today it was “completely true” that she talked to him?

  155. daretotread

    GD
    It is a bit of both

    Electricity prices are reportedly set to sour at about 10% a year (compound) which does mean doubling in the near future

    Electricity prices can be quite crippling for small businesses and costs of $2-3000 per month not uncommon.

    Electricity costs are approaching wage costs for many.

  156. leone

    DAvidWH

    I’m sure people from federal Labor discussed possible candidates with NSW Labor people, you’d expect that they would. I can’t see anything wrong with phone calls for this reason. But as I said, it all depends on the NSW parliament, not on Julia Gillard or Stephen Smith.

  157. Oscar

    [ How is it not news that the PM said talk of her talking to Bob Carr was “completely untrue, completely untrue” only to find today it was “completely true” that she talked to him? ]

    What is “completely untrue” is your bizarre and twisted version of events.

  158. Jackol

    As they absolutely should, unless they are meant to be an ALP Press outlet.

    I still haven’t heard anything that resembles a newsworthy element about this “incident”.

    The original reports were trying to make something out of the fact that there was some pushback about a suggestion that Bob Carr could get FA, but … that’s it. It doesn’t mean anything to anyone, and once Bob Carr said he wasn’t interested, that was it. Nothing will come of it.

    The original “Factions!” angle was a non-story anyway, and doesn’t appear to have any basis in fact.

    Now, with Julia Gillard dismissing the original report, the angle is “Untrustworthy!” – again, without any evidence beyond some suggestion that Julia Gillard should have been more precise about exactly which bits of the original story were “completely untrue”.

    Christ on a cracker, the whole thing is absurd nonsense.

  159. Mod Lib

    Oscar:

    If you are a door-knocker for the ALP, please make the point that there was nothing misleading about Gillard’s statement of yesterday…should go down a treat I reckon!

    🙂

  160. MTBW

    leone

    [it all depends on the NSW parliament]

    No it doesn’t! The ALP selects the candidate to replace Arbib/

  161. Mod Lib

    [Christ on a cracker, the whole thing is absurd nonsense.]

    A PM getting caught telling a porker is newsworthy to non ALP-hack Australians

  162. DavidWH

    Leone I agree with you on both counts. The issue, if there is one, seems to be more about how it was handled rather than what may have been proposed.

  163. Think Big

    [A PM getting caught telling a porker is newsworthy to non ALP-hack Australians]

    The media telling porkies is an everyday occurence however and barely raises any eyebrows

  164. ltep

    [How is it not news that the PM said talk of her talking to Bob Carr was “completely untrue, completely untrue” only to find today it was “completely true” that she talked to him?]

    So the question was simply “Did you talk to Bob Carr”?

  165. Thornleigh Labor Man

    There’s an obvious solution for Gillard, in relation to the Foreign Affairs portfolio: give Kevin Rudd his job back.
    And don’t demote Bowen, McClelland, Carr, Ferguson.

    She won’t do the first, obviously, but will she have the good sense not to take out retribution on McClelland and Carr(who I presume are the most endangered of the Ruddites)?

  166. ltep

    When the thing that saves Carr from demotion is his factional support will people still be decrying the ‘faceless men’ and the power of the factions?

  167. Jackol

    A PM getting caught telling a porker is newsworthy to non ALP-hack Australians

    What “porker”?

    The story in the Australian was headlined “Mutiny Kills PM’s Bob Carr Plan” with a subheadline “Rebellion by Ministers Undermines Gillard’s Newfound Authority”.

    No evidence for a “Mutiny” or a “Rebellion by Ministers”, and I think it is quite reasonable to describe that story as “Completely Untrue”.

    Provide any evidence that Julia Gillard was suggesting that “Completely Untrue” related in any way to her approaching Bob Carr?

  168. zoidlord

    @leroy/3908,

    No surprise there!

  169. Lord Barry Bonkton

    Jen , great photo. Ha Ha Ha , have saved it.

  170. This little black duck

    Mr Palmer and his Football Australia might have the odd problem with FIFA.

    Billionaire Clive Palmer has announced he is starting an independent football body called Football Australia, aimed at holding Football Federation Australia (FFA) accountable for running the game.

    h­ttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-01/palmer-initiates-independent-football-body/3863084

  171. Mod Lib

    The good thing is that, finally, some of the media will pursue the sneaky legalise wording Gillard uses and ask for absolute specifics.

    I have been saying for 18 months that we didn’t know why Rudd was deposed, roundly criticised by the PBers, only to find on Monday that Gillard was admitting exactly that!

    …just in case you guys thought I hadn’t noticed!!!!

  172. Gary Sparrow

    So it took 24 hours to destroy her legitimacy as PM after winning the ballot.

    Me thinks 71 people have their collective heads in the sand eh Mod Lib?

  173. Oscar

    [ If you are a door-knocker for the ALP, please make the point that there was nothing misleading about Gillard’s statement of yesterday…should go down a treat I reckon! ]

    Okay, Mod Lib.

    I’ve just held my nose and re-read the confected nonsense contained in the various stories on this subject on the OO website (I’m presuming you are using this as your primary source of information? Or is it some other Murdoch rag that is your primary source?). In any case, I cannot find any possible interpretation of events that makes this anything more than a desperate beat up.

    But perhaps I am simply not clever enough to understand. I certainly had trouble following Shamaham’s particular brand of logic – espcecially since his main argument seemed to rest on the fact that Gillard was obviously lying when she said the story was untrue because the story was very nearly true. Or something like that.

    Perhaps you would like to do me a favor and lay out a timeline of events and statements that you think substantiates your claims that there is any story here? Other than the obvious one, I mean – i.e. that the OO just likes to make shit up.

  174. This little black duck

    Leveson tonight should be QI:

    evidence from former Met commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson, ex-assistant commissioner John Yates, former assistant commissioner Andy Hayman and ex-deputy assistant commissioner Peter Clarke.

    h­ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/feb/29/leveson-inquiry-williams-maberly-surtees-live

  175. Aguirre

    As they absolutely should, unless they are meant to be an ALP Press outlet.

    Which they’re not. Any suggestion that they are or should be is utterly abhorrent.

    They’re a Coalition press outlet.

  176. Diogenes

    TLBD

    Palmer is just starting a think tank about soccer in Oz. It’s not a rival league; basically it will be his lobby group.

  177. Jackol

    Oh, ModLib, have a look at how the ABC reported the context of the “Completely Untrue”:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-29/carr-foreign-ministry-speculation/3860482

    Straight after the shots of the front page story in the Australian with “Mutiny Kills PM’s Bob Carr Plan” “Rebellion by Ministers Undermines Gillard’s Newfound Authority”, so it was clearly in relation to that story. That story was obviously trying to play up “division within the ALP” “Julia Gillard lacks authority”; describing it as Completely Untrue is obviously in reference to the Mutiny/Rebellion aspects.

    That there are other facts contained within the story is irrelevant. The context is clear, unless you are wilfully blind. Yet another bootstrapping non-story to use as evidence of Julia Gillard being “untrustworthy” and a “failure”.

    Someone get me a bucket.

  178. Mod Lib

    Aguirre:

    I would be interested to hear your perspective of Carrgate….

  179. roaldan1000

    ML is right, the story was not “completely” untrue.

    Okay, Carr wasn’t spoken to before the weekend, he wasn’t offered the FM post by the PM and there wasn’t a mutiny, which was the thrust of the story., but let’s not quibble over irrelevancies like that.

    It is outrageous that, just because a few of the accusations made in the story were compeletely untrue, the PM called the whole story completely untrue.

    Bits of it were true, Carr is called Carr, for example and that should be enough for our PM to bend the knee to the other minor inaccuracies.

    It is this lazy insistence on actually telling the truth in stories that is threatening our freedom of speech and the very existence of our Australian way of life.

    Yes, it might be slightly contradictory that reaction to a story in which the salient points were made up is now being used to paint the PM as a liar, but that’s modern day political coverage for you.

  180. poroti

    Mod Lib

    [The good thing is that, finally, some of the media will pursue the sneaky legalise wording Gillard uses and ask for absolute specifics.]
    Mod Lib when it came to legalise sneaky and weasel words there is only one king .So all hail King John “I was not informed” Howard. All others pale into insignificance.

  181. zoidlord

    @Mod Lib/3934,

    I never critisised rudd, but I think he’s got an ego problem.

    There is an old saying, there is plenty ways to skin a cat, and one of the was to be premier of QLD.

  182. Thornleigh Labor Man

    Gary Sparrow: never doubt the collective wisdom of the Labor Caucus. 🙂

  183. leone

    [No it doesn’t! The ALP selects the candidate to replace Arbib/]

    And the NSW Parliament in a joint sitting gets to vote on that candidate. Here’s how it happens –
    http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20111013002

    Simple, all over in minutes and Arthur Sinodonis fills the vacancy created whenh Helen Coonan left.

    But they can vote no. Take a look at what happened to Whitlam after Jim Cairns’ dismissal. Labor put up Mal Colston (not such a great choice) and the Bjelke Petersen government knocked him back twice. Labor refused to put up another candidate so Joh did it for them. He chose Albert Field and convinced parliament to vote for him. Field declared that he would not support Whitalm. It got even messier when Labor expelled Field for standing against Colston, with MPs boycotting his swearing in ceremony.

    If Fatty O’Barrell has a bad hair day who knows….

  184. Jackol

    Leone – stop pursuing that one, it’s a formality now after the 1977 referendum.

  185. Thornleigh Labor Man

    Glen/Gary Sparrow: Where has Bruce Bilson been lately? Very quiet shadow minister. If he’s really going to take Abbott’s job, he better start campaigning for it. 🙂

  186. Oscar

    [ If he’s really going to take Abbott’s job ]

    Abbott’s job is to be trounced at the next election, and so far he’s exceeding his KPIs.

  187. joe2

    roaldan1000, nice with koala stamp.

  188. daretotread

    Zoid

    Ego problems are shared by
    Julia Gillard
    Tiny Abbott
    Julie Bishop
    Wayne Swan
    Chrissy Pyne
    Malcolm T
    John Howard
    Paul k
    Bob Hawke
    Gough W

    Need I go on

    Why just pick on one of them?

  189. ltep

    leone, the Constitution was changed after the Joh/Field fiasco.

  190. jenauthor

    [How is it not news that the PM said talk of her talking to Bob Carr was “completely untrue, completely untrue” only to find today it was “completely true” that she talked to him?]

    Modlib — it was mostly crap and you know it.

  191. Mod Lib

    [Modlib — it was mostly crap and you know it.]

    What Gillard said?

    Yes, I know…

  192. smithe

    [ billie
    Posted Thursday, March 1, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Permalink
    A casual perusal of Bob Ellis blog http://www.ellistabletalk.com shows that he thought Bob Carr had been offered the NSW Senate vacancy and had been offered Foreign Affairs. Ellis takes pains to establish his closeness to Carr and the centre of Labor power broking]

    Taking tips from Ellis about what’s going on inside the Labor Party is like getting tips from Malcolm Fraser on the inner workings of the Libs these days.

    Ellis is an un-reconstructed Ruddista who has had at least one excruciatingly maudlin and boring paean to Rudd published on The Drum website in the last 12 months. Fair dinkum, it read like a print version of Don Mclean’s The Day the Music Died, dedicated to The Great Man hisself.

    [‘A long long time ago
    I can still remember how that leader used to make me smile
    And I knew if I had my chance
    That I could make the Party dance
    And maybe they’d be happy for a while….’]

  193. leone

    Jacko

    Sorry, I’ll talk about anything I like, if you don’t like it then scroll past.

    The 1977 referendum intended to ensure that the balance of power in the senate could not be upset by the appointment of a new senator to fill a casual vacancy. It didn’t quite solve the problem. State parliaments can decide not to elect a candidate. In 1987 the Tasmanian parliament rejected the Labor candiate in a tied vote, saying that they did not have to accept the nomination of any candidate. No new candidate was elected to fill the vacancy until the next federal election.

  194. daretotread

    Garry and Mod lib

    For our own edification how does the faction system work in the coalition

    Ie who belongs where and how tight are they.

    Now I guess that on the
    Dripping and very wet side there is :Broadbent

    Wet: Hunt,Pyne,Turnbull,Hockey, Brandis

    Damp: Abbott (except on social issues)

    Dry: Bishop, Bishop,Robb??

    Dessicated: Heffernon, Bernadi, Mirablella

    Am I right and can you expand the list please

  195. ltep

    Mod Lib, lets say you called jenauthor and discussed with her the potential of joining your knitting class. A journalist then asks you whether you offered jenauthor $1 million to join your knitting class but you were bullied out of it by a passing pack a hyenas. You say “that is completely untrue”. Would someone who described your statement as ‘legalise’ be stretching it just a little bit?

  196. Dr John

    Gary Sparrow – how could Julia Gilliard’s legitamacy be destroyed since the Monday ballot as a result of a nothing story about filling a Senate vacancy?

    Clutching at your avatar picture ‘pork pie’ (lie) hat old boy!

  197. Oscar

    [ Modlib — it was mostly crap and you know it. ]

    Mod Lib’s argument (like Shamahams) seems to refer to the use of the word “completely” – i.e. it was not “completely untrue”, it was just “untrue”.

    But as roaldan1000 correctly pointed out, the story was not “completely untrue”. For example, I think the reporter spelt their own name correctly, and possibly even got the date correct.

    However, it was “completely untrue” with respect to all the facts salient to the story.

  198. Aguirre

    Aguirre:

    I would be interested to hear your perspective of Carrgate….

    Carrgate. Not sure that one’s going to catch on.

    I’m viewing it as an unhealthy public obsession with what is an internal ALP matter, at this stage. Certain interested parties, in the press and the Coalition, are scouting about for anything they think they can conflate into yet another insinuation.

    In this, as with most topics we’re being asked to treat as “urgent”, I see no connection with issues to do with policy. There might be some interest in who is best to fill the FM position, but the process by which they come to that choice is of no real interest to me.

  199. Oscar

    [ In this, as with most topics we’re being asked to treat as “urgent”, I see no connection with issues to do with policy. There might be some interest in who is best to fill the FM position, but the process by which they come to that choice is of no real interest to me. ]

    But, Aquirre – the story is not about who would be best as FM – the real story is about how Jula can’t even fill a simple senate vacancy without completely confusing Shamaham! So it logically follows that she must be a lying, conniving, untrustworthy b*tch!

  200. Mod Lib

    I see no stringent defence in those words Aguirre, just a desire for another topic.

    If I were you I would hope the media was discussing something other than the PM’s use of words to mislead as well!

    Its just good news that the media (since 4C I think) are cottoning on to the fact that you cannot take anything Gillard says at face value- look for the deception.

  201. jenauthor

    What makes me laugh (until I cry) is that the Oppsotion just says ANYTHING and it gets printed/shown.

    I saw JBish on doors this morning and the PM would be well within her rights to sue – JBish talking like she has ‘privilege’ like inside chamber.

    If it was me, I’d be going her with a ‘meat axe’ lawyer!

  202. zoidlord

    @D2D/3951,

    Never said any politician listed didn’t have an ego, it’s just that Rudd’s showed it more open than others.

    In my view, All politicians have ego’s.

    Now go back to you’re box and stop trying to put other people’s words in their own mouths.

  203. Diogenes

    Aguirre

    [Carrgate. Not sure that one’s going to catch on.]

    It’s Carr Crash. 😀

  204. Jackol

    So, ModLib, how do you explain the way the ABC reported the “Completely Untrue” quote?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-29/carr-foreign-ministry-speculation/3860482

    Your accusation that Julia Gillard was referring to whether she talked to Bob Carr is simply incorrect, and the fact you persist with this tells me you have no interest in the truth, only what you can do to assist propagating spin and, fundamentally, lies from the opposition and some parts of the media.

  205. Thomas Paine

    Gillard was dishonest, simple.

    People trying to spin their her way out of it.

    She was unnecessarily stupid in going the absolutely completely didn’t didn’t offer Carr FA.

    She could have said that she spoke him in general terms…etc… but that it wasn’t in her power to offer anybody a Senate position.

    Seems she likes to choose the sneaky route.

  206. Jackol

    She was unnecessarily stupid in going the absolutely completely didn’t didn’t offer Carr FA.

    Where is Julia Gillard quoted as denying talking to Bob Carr about a Senate Position and FA?

  207. lizzie

    Mod Lib
    [Its just good news that the media (since 4C I think) are cottoning on to the fact that you cannot take anything Gillard says at face value- look for the deception.]
    I thought you were more sensible than that.

  208. jenauthor

    ModLib, TP and others:

    Were you there? FMD – you people talk like you were sitting in the room and know exactly what was said.

    It says a lot about anyone’s ability to discern fact from fiction if you simply believe the first thing you see that reinforces your bias.

    Am out of here – I’ve got no time for this rubbish on a daily basis. Invite me back when you are willing to discuss politics without playing up the idiocy dished out by our media.

  209. Mod Lib

    [ltep
    Posted Thursday, March 1, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink
    Mod Lib, lets say you called jenauthor and discussed with her the potential of joining your knitting class. A journalist then asks you whether you offered jenauthor $1 million to join your knitting class but you were bullied out of it by a passing pack a hyenas. You say “that is completely untrue”. Would someone who described your statement as ‘legalise’ be stretching it just a little bit?]

    I have a better one:

    Oz front page about Carr offered FM job but ALP blocked it

    [JULIA GILLARD (at press conference): The story that’s on the front page of the Australian Newspaper today is completely untrue.

    JOURNALIST: Were you …?

    2ND JOURNALIST: Can you give us some details?

    JULIA GILLARD: I’ve just said completely untrue.

    JOURNALIST: (inaudible)

    JULIA GILLARD: I’ve just said completely untrue. ]

    The next day Julia admits she talked to Carr about the reshuffle

    Or this one:

    [ (wtte: There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead]

    Then she introduces a carbon tax and agrees with Heather Ewart when she asks:

    [HEATHER EWART: With this carbon tax – you do concede it’s a carbon tax, do you not?

    JULIA GILLARD: Oh, look, I’m happy to use the word tax, Heather. ]

    Or this one:

    Gillard and Wilkie have a pact for an ALP government if she passes a pokie bill

    Gillard walks away when she gets a Lib defector to be speaker

    How would you describe such an individual?

  210. ltep

    [How would you describe such an individual?]

    A politician?

    You can play these games with just about any person who has held a senior ministerial or leadership role with a political party.

    I can think of a fair few for Mr Abbott, for instance.

  211. Mod Lib

    [jenauthor
    Posted Thursday, March 1, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink
    ModLib, TP and others:

    Were you there?]

    Run away if you wish Jen…

    I wasn’t there, but I don’t need to have been there, I am only commenting on what Gillard herself said yesterday versus what she said today.

  212. roaldan1000

    TP is absolutely right. JG should have been very specific.

    She should have said:

    “The bit about me taking to Carr before the weekend was completely untrue.

    “The bit about me offering him the FM position was completely untrue.

    “The bit about the mutiny was completely untrue.

    Some of the sentences in between might have been true, who knows these days with NewsLtd?”

  213. Thomas Paine

    No wonder she seems shifty and untrustworthy to the public, she takes fefuge in smenatics and literal translations. Is unable to speak straight and direct.

    If the people in Labor did something, then she has to mention that if she knows it when answer a question on it. No, I absolutely didn’t blah blah….knowing full well that others have. It is dishonest. It means reporters will have to ask their questions in such a way to cover every possible angle they think Gillard may find to weasel out from answering in good faith.

  214. Boerwar

    IMHO, Mr Abbott would have contemplated a reshuffle many a time.

    The first question would be who do you keep? Being generous:

    (1) Himself
    (2) Ms Bishop the Elder (for sentimental reasons)
    (3) Mr Morrison

    That leaves all those who have failed to make their marks because:

    (1) they have come up with no policy at all
    (2) what they have come up with is a crock
    (3) they have failed to lay a glove on their opposite numbers.

  215. Aguirre

    ModLib:

    I see no stringent defence in those words Aguirre, just a desire for another topic.

    You’re absolutely right. That’s been my general attitude lately. If it didn’t happen in parliament or isn’t policy-related, I struggle to maintain interest. I know you’re into the gossipy rumour stuff, and I don’t want to hold you back. I just may not give you the bickering you’re after.

    If I were you I would hope the media was discussing something other than the PM’s use of words to mislead as well!

    Its just good news that the media (since 4C I think) are cottoning on to the fact that you cannot take anything Gillard says at face value- look for the deception.

    You asked for my take on it. I don’t know why though, since you’ve made up your mind about what I think already by the sound of it. \

    Let me know if I change my mind at any stage. 🙂

  216. imacca

    [Mod Lib’s argument (like Shamahams) seems to refer to the use of the word “completely” – i.e. it was not “completely untrue”, it was just “untrue”.]

    What i cant work out is what they think is the story here? Its a beat up they are madly spinning to support the proposition that Julia Gillard lies. Direct, personal attack on the PM over something which is so amazingly trivial, and unimportant as to beggar belief.

    I mean, she has no responsibility to report on her conversations with anyone about internal ALP matters.

    And the idea they have introduced that if Smith is re-appointed FM it somehow reflects badly on her authority is simply absurd. Cant these people actually find REAL things to write about??

    Like, for one example, there are two big floods in the East at the moment. Wot, thats so last fracking year is it?? Bet the people who are getting hit by them dont think so? So, maybe the jouro’s or even Dog forbid the Opposition could be asking what the Govt is doing to help and pressuring them to do even more??

    But seems like, according to the MSM thats not even worth discussing while they can navel gaze and debate how many times you can print the word “completely” on the head of a pin and what did she mean by it anyway.

    New depths for trivial irrelevance to real life are being plumbed here people.

  217. Jackol

    JULIA GILLARD (at press conference): The story that’s on the front page of the Australian Newspaper today is completely untrue.

    ModLib, what was the story in the Australian about?

    Let’s take the headline:
    “Mutiny Kills PM’s Bob Carr Plan”

    Saying that was untrue would imply what? That there was no mutiny.

    Let’s take the sub heading:
    “Rebellion by Ministers Undermines Gillard’s Newfound Authority”

    Saying that was untrue would imply what? That there was no rebellion.

    So at what point does saying the story was “completely untrue” come to be about denying talking to Bob Carr?

  218. jenauthor

    [Run away if you wish Jen…]

    Sorry Modlib but I cannot abide deliberately nonsensical arguments for the sake of arguing. I also don’t need to witness people arguing against their own best interests. If anyone is that deluded, I might feel sorry for them, but I am not going to waste my brainspace with such ludicrous nonsense.

  219. Mod Lib

    [A politician?

    You can play these games with just about any person who has held a senior ministerial or leadership role with a political party.

    I can think of a fair few for Mr Abbott, for instance.]

    Absolutely you can, and you can criticise both sides as I do….

    Or you can claim Gillard has done nothing wrong and then thrash about wildly when Howard did the same thing…

  220. Boerwar

    Those Morgan figures appear to undercut the meme that Labor got a lift because the punters thought Mr Rudd was going to get a guernsey.

    Maybe what actually happened was that they thought an election might have been in the offing and they finally had a bit of a closer look at the Coalition.

    Or maybe, with less than a 1,000 polled, the MOE is a bit larger than usual.

  221. ltep

    [Or you can claim Gillard has done nothing wrong]

    I’ve never said such a thing. I just think this particular instance is a complete beat up. I’ve criticised Labor, under both Rudd and Gillard, many times – sometimes on issues where I’ve been severely outnumbered on here.

  222. Bushfire Bill

    The sole function of the current “scandal” will be to add to the “list” of Gillard “Gaffes”, as in,

    * Labor Party Conference catastrophe

    * Reshuffle debacle

    * Australia Day cover-up

    * Cabinet mutiny over Carr.

  223. imacca

    [Sorry Modlib but I cannot abide deliberately nonsensical arguments for the sake of arguing.]

    You realize Jen you have have just counted yourself out of EVER qualifying for a spot on the Fib/Nat front bench? 🙂

  224. ltep

    Boerwar, or maybe it’s a Morgan F2F 😉

  225. smithe

    [So at what point does saying the story was “completely untrue” come to be about denying talking to Bob Carr?]

    Don’t bother jakol. It’s nothing more than the latest confected Fiberal talking point.

    They’ll try and keep the focus on anything but their own empty policy cupboard and tawdry threadbare leader, a self-admitted liar.

    And that’s ‘completely true’.

  226. Mod Lib

    [So at what point does saying the story was “completely untrue” come to be about denying talking to Bob Carr?]

    Jackol:

    Was Bob Carr offered the FM position by anyone in the ALP?

  227. Bushfire Bill

    [So at what point does saying the story was “completely untrue” come to be about denying talking to Bob Carr?]

    What was completely untrue was that Bob Carr was offered the role of FM. Only Gillard can offer that. If she did not, then the story is completely untrue.

  228. shellbell

    Morgan has some interesting baromoters such as its confidence meter and its own way of measuring unemployment

  229. Aguirre

    Modlib:

    Or you can claim Gillard has done nothing wrong and then thrash about wildly when Howard did the same thing…

    Ok, now this interests me. Give me some examples of Howard doing the same thing.

  230. Jackol

    Don’t bother jakol. It’s nothing more than the latest confected Fiberal talking point.

    Sorry, I’ve got to fight on this one: this one is so clearly twisting Julia Gillard’s words.

    When a story in the Australian is about “Mutiny Kills PM’s Bob Carr Plan” and “Rebellion by Ministers Undermines Gillard’s Newfound Authority”, and Julia Gillard rejects the story as “Completely Untrue”,

    How on earth does that equate to her denying talking to Bob Carr?

    Honestly? It’s so absurd. And in defending Julia Gillard there are accusations of “weasel words” etc – there’s nothing tricky or ambiguous or polly speak here. The article in the Australian about a “mutiny” was completely untrue.

  231. shellbell

    BW

    While you are here, on the assumption that Mr Rudd is not reappointed as FM, do you expect changes to foreign policy or just approach?

  232. poroti

    Amazing to see the attack of the vapours the PM’s supposed “porkies” have caused the Coalition supporters here. I feel concerned for their health considering the word of the leader of their party cannot be trusted as “the gospel truth” unless it is written down on paper and signed by him. He signs SFA these days.

  233. roaldan1000

    Carr says he wasn’t ModLib. SAre you saying he is lying?

  234. Jackol

    Was Bob Carr offered the FM position by anyone in the ALP?

    It was canvassed.

    Julia Gillard has not denied this – please provide a quote where she denies discussing the Senate position and FM job with Bob Carr.

    The story in the Australian that she rejected as “completely untrue” was talking about “Mutiny Kills PM’s Bob Carr Plan” and “Rebellion by Ministers Undermines Gillard’s Newfound Authority”. There was no mutiny, no rebellion; the story was completely untrue.

  235. Mod Lib

    [Ok, now this interests me. Give me some examples of Howard doing the same thing.]

    Howard was a master of using specific phraseology to skirt along the edges of the truth. He would say what he needed to say to get out of a hot spot “Never ever GST” or “We won’t abuse our Senate majority to pass contentious legislation” etc etc….I am sure you guys can come up with rheems of this stuff (beware Crikey bandwith limits!!!!).

    The complete blindness to Gillard’s failings here, with the associated need to imply that the entire Australian electorate is stupid and the entire Australian media is corrupt, is what intrigues me!

  236. Jackol

    The complete blindness to Gillard’s failings here

    Except that in this specific case, your accusations (and the opposition’s and the Australian’s) are clearly wrong.

  237. poroti

    The reason the Noalition is so worked up about “Carrgate” is that is yet another reminder that they are not in government and are irrelavent when real decisions of state are made :). That and they have nothing else in the locker.

  238. Gary Sparrow

    http://www.actforaustralia.com/sites/default/files/JohnHoward3.jpg

    Mod Lib

    Totes buyers remorse with this Labor Govt (2007-2013)!

  239. Mod Lib

    So we have some here saying “yes” the FM position was discussed and others ridiculing me saying where is the evidence!!!

    LOL, just the usual night at PB I guess.

    Well, I wasn’t there so there is no way of me knowing, I can just go on reports that say Carr said “yes” when asked the specific question about whether he was:

    [Ms Gillard’s claims were at odds with those of Mr Carr, who said yesterday he had been offered the foreign ministry. “Yes,” he said, when asked directly if there had been an offer.]

    The whole point is whether Gillard is under the thumb of the faceless men who put her in her current position. Even if it wasn’t Gillard, if it was one of the faceless men, its still a significant story.

    The other issue is how did this story come out into the open ?

    Any takers?

  240. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Modlib,
    I know that you Liberals are sucking on ashes at the moment and that makes your throats really dry but the Carr beat-up is not the lozenge you crave.

  241. Mod Lib

    [Mod Lib

    Totes buyers remorse with this Labor Govt (2007-2013)!]

    Completely uncalled for Gary!!!!

    They are already so angry, don’t wind them up any more please!!!! 🙂

  242. Tricot

    Bit rich for the few tory hacks who come here and pontificate about Gillard lying.

    John Howard lied many, many times and was called by his own party member a “Lying Rodent”. The Honest John title was an irony which many conservatives were just a little to obtuse to understand.

    Meanwhile, Abbott is a self-confessed, in public, admitted liar.

    Remember his interview with Kerry? Though, of course, as Health Minister he already had a track record for lying.

    Lying for politicians is in their DNA. It goes with the territory.

    But when the sad sacks from the conservatives come here an try to wag their “naughty, naughty” finger at Gillard, I have the rank odour of hypocrisy coming from them.

    Of course, these sore losers from the right, will say anything, do anything and believe anything to console their aching, aching disappointment that Abbott is likely to remain on the opposition benches for some time to come and possibly for ever.

    I wish this lot had something constructive to add, but then they fit the stereotype.

    Watching Oakie and Windsor take Abbott to pieces yesterday was great.

    The best part was where they contrasted the fact that the PM had kept her word to them, but Abbott as we know, even with his ‘ass’ on the line, after 17 days, failed completed to win over any of the key personnel. Cos, they didn’t trust him.

    Not only is Abbott and abject liar but and abject failure in his ability to lead anyone other than a pack of nay sayers.

  243. confessions

    [The sole function of the current “scandal” will be to add to the “list” of Gillard “Gaffes”]

    And consequently the only people still pushing the ‘OMG Gillard lied about Carr!!!!’ non-story are:

    – Liberals

    – The media (and those sucked in by the media)

    -anti-Gillard Rudd Cultists

    Have a look at the commenters who are still flogging this crap for all it’s worth. They tick one, if not more of the above boxes.

  244. Jackol

    Ms Gillard’s claims were at odds

    Sorry, which claims – a quote please – I’m not going to trust the press in this matter saying “Ms Gillard’s claims” without knowing what those claims actually were.

    “Completely untrue” refers to mutinies and rebellions.

  245. poroti

    May as well re link a reminder that the LOTO and truth are like ships passing in the night . Margot Kingston in 2003
    [Now Abbott lies about lying, copies Howard’s Manildra]
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663853365.html

  246. Gary Sparrow

    Portoi

    I think we can all agree Tories (Abbott) and Laborites (Gillard) are liars.

    Flame war over

    BTW

    I am reading Ann Henderson’s biography of our least know PM’s Joseph Lyons called The People’s Prime Minister. It’s a great read!

  247. Mod Lib

    [“Completely untrue” refers to mutinies and rebellions.]

    Which brings us back to my question:


    [The other issue is how did this story come out into the open ?

    Any takers?]

  248. Jackol

    Which brings us back to my question:

    Ah, so you’ve given up claiming that Julia Gillard denied talking to Bob Carr. Excellent.

  249. confessions

    [While you are here, on the assumption that Mr Rudd is not reappointed as FM, do you expect changes to foreign policy or just approach?]

    My own view: Under Rudd’s watch as FM the opposition were able to get traction with the line about needing to have a Jakarta focus rather than a UN focus. The assumption being that Rudd was too preoccupied with sucking up to northern hemisphere nations to pay any attention to our own region.

    This needs to change.

  250. poroti

    Gary Sparrow
    [Portoi

    I think we can all agree Tories (Abbott) and Laborites (Gillard) are liars.

    Flame war over]
    I bloody well hope the “flame war” is over. The phrase “Much ado about nothing” comes to mind.

  251. confessions

    [The other issue is how did this story come out into the open ?]

    We dealt with this earlier. There is a claque of Rudd supporters who haven’t yet got the memo that the Rudd ship has sailed.

  252. WeWantPaul

    Defending modlib doesn’t appeal to me greatly but calling him an idiot based on the rather tenuous belief that the only way the PM could possibly make an offer is directly herself takes the irrational cult of Julia to new depths. It also assumes an independence from the factions which she can repeat ad nausea and sane people will never believe.

    While I’m here the hopeful view that this Carr crash rubbish (which I fully agree should not be important) is irrelevant seems to neglect that the publics starting perception of Julia is being reinforced. The view she is a liar controlled by the factions running the worst ever Australian govt is very strong notwithstsnding it is largely wrong.

  253. smithe

    [Which brings us back to my question:

    The other issue is how did this story come out into the open ?]

    Who cares?

    Conduct your own pogroms, comrade>

  254. Oscar

    [ Well, I wasn’t there so there is no way of me knowing ]

    Ok – we finally agree on something. So how about you STFU about something you have just admitted you know nothing about?

  255. smithe

    [the publics starting perception of Julia…]

    That’d be Shanahan’s startling percrption of Julia (which he never tires of repeating tom any who will listen), I think you’ll find.

  256. smithe

    BTW comrades, has Toolman sobered-up yet?

  257. Gary

    [While I’m here the hopeful view that this Carr crash rubbish (which I fully agree should not be important) is irrelevant seems to neglect that the publics starting perception of Julia is being reinforced.]
    Only if they are taking any notice, which I don’t believe they are. It isn’t making a big splash on the nightly news services and nor will it matter in a few days time. A politician that lies or stretches the truth, well I never.

  258. Mod Lib

    [Ok – we finally agree on something. So how about you STFU about something you have just admitted you know nothing about?]

    Oscar:

    Let me spell it out for you.

    The only people who know whether an ALP Prime Minister spoke to an ALP Premier about an ALP Cabinet position is the ALP.

    If the Media got wind of it, then it must have come from the ALP.

    So much for the resounding win Gillard had on Monday, and the end of the leaks eh?

  259. confessions

    [While I’m here the hopeful view that this Carr crash rubbish (which I fully agree should not be important) is irrelevant seems to neglect that the publics starting perception of Julia is being reinforced.]

    And I refer you to my comment above about those pushing this stupid meme. It is being pushed in order to undermine the PM’s authority and assertiveness she gained from Monday’s ballot. You only have to look at those feeding it to see where it’s coming from.

    Compare and contrast to Helen Coonan’s resignation. Nobody batted an eyelid when Howard era staffer Sinodinos replaced her, yet they should’ve as it fed directly into the very real perception that Abbott’s leadership is only about Howard Restoration and nothing more.

  260. Jackol

    A politician that lies or stretches the truth, well I never.

    The annoying thing is that, in this case, I don’t think Julia Gillard has stretched the truth at all, let alone lied.

    My feeling about this is that various interests are strategically putting out all these little “Julia Gillard lied” events (whether she did or not), assuming that by putting out hundreds of them they can’t all be swatted down, and collectively add to an overall impression that is impossible to refute.

    That’s why I don’t think any of these should be allowed to go through to the keeper.

    Julia Gillard did not lie about her interactions with Bob Carr. She didn’t even dissemble.

  261. confessions

    [So much for the resounding win Gillard had on Monday]

    And there we have it, just as I claimed @ 4023.

    It’s disappointing to be proved right in so short a space of time. After the Rudd stuff, I’m used to having to wait months.

  262. Dr John

    [ Flame war over ]
    ‘Pork pies’ is still lying!

  263. Aguirre

    I think I’ve just had a post sent into moderation. First time for me. No idea why.

  264. Darn

    A handful of PBs may find this Carr stuff riveting but trust me the great unwashed out there couldn’t give a shit.

  265. Mod Lib

    [And there we have it, just as I claimed @ 4023.

    It’s disappointing to be proved right in so short a space of time. After the Rudd stuff, I’m used to having to wait months.]

    Gosh what a shock, the story is about Gillard, Rudd, the vote, the faction leaders, the faceless men, leaks….yes, of course. I would have thought that was pretty obvious Confessions, but you take it as a cunning win on your part if you wish!!!

  266. poroti

    Just in, News Poil polling has found that 99.9995 % percent of the population when asked about their view of “Carrgate ” said
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjC_VCKG0tE

  267. imacca

    [You only have to look at those feeding it to see where it’s coming from.]

    LOL! That would be the tools is the MSM who have been pretty much wRONg about everything since Gillard became PM??

    The way this is going it will become standard Shamahan practice to include a statement that “The sky is up and the ground is down” at some point in every article so that no-one can ever state that any article of his is “completely” wrong. Since when has relevance ever mattered? Its all about agenda.

  268. The Finnigans

    Amazing, no #leadershits or PM Gillard bashing tonight on #ABC730. Now @CUhlmann that wasnt too painful, was it? #auspol

  269. Gary

    [A politician that lies or stretches the truth, well I never.]
    I actually used this to indicate what the effect the perception a politician lied would have on the general public.

  270. Oscar

    [ If the Media got wind of it, then it must have come from the ALP. ]

    Got wind of what exactly? The story you and the OO seem to be trying to spin here (as far as I understand either their bizarre logic or your bizarre logic) is that Julia lied when she says she didn’t offer Bob Carr the FM positition. But sadly for you, both sides – being the only ones who would actually know – have categorically denied it.

    So WTF are you claiming the story is about? Some nebulous “mutiny” which you cannot seem to substantiate? Some cracked notion that Julia was “overruled” that (again) you cannot seem to substantiate?

    I’m sorry, Mod Lib, but I am really at a loss to understand just what you think the actual story is … other (of course) than the regular daily dose of “Julia is a lying b*tch!!!!”

  271. Boerwar

    Shell bell

    Some unstructured thoughts:

    (1) Bearing in mind that Mr Rudd has to all intents and purposes run FA since he was elected PM and down to a lowish level of detail, it would be highly likely that there would be significant changes with a change in Minister for Foreign Affairs. In his earlier days there were criticisms that he tended to drop done deals on the regional neighborhood. IMHO, both Mr Rudd and his colleagues (with the possible exception of Mr Ludwig) appeared to have learned from that. So a basic, more collegiate style, is likely to persist.
    (2) The Government may decide to save some money and gain some friends by dropping the quest for Security Council Seatdom.
    (3) It appeared to me that Mr Rudd rather set the agenda for FA and tended not to focus on some issues which were of greater interest to the government as a whole. A new FA might be more amenable to collegiate priorities.
    (4) It would be unlikely that a new FA minister would substantially alter our stance on Afghanistan, Iran or the US alliance.
    (5) Just how much Mr Rudd ran FA as a means to the end of a post-political significant international job is not known.

  272. Jackol

    I know Gary, apologies for not being clear I wasn’t criticizing your post.

  273. Gary

    [Gosh what a shock, the story is about Gillard, Rudd, the vote, the faction leaders, the faceless men, leaks….yes, of course.]
    And the eyes glaze over when this stuff is mentioned.

  274. poroti

    The Finnigans
    [Amazing, no #leadershits or PM Gillard bashing tonight on #ABC730. Now @CUhlmann that wasnt too painful, was it? #auspol]
    A rainy night on a Canberra park bench works wonders 🙂

  275. imacca

    Wow. Must be something in the water in N.Z.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/winston-peters-ejected-from-parliament/story-fn3dxity-1226286530586

    [Mr Peters is the first MP to be kicked out of the debating chamber this term.]

    How many have been chucked out of ours in the last week??

  276. confessions

    ML:

    You are flogging a horse which never bolted. A concoction of the NEws ltd press, dreamed up in concert with the Liberals, who have been similarly flogging said horse.

    Why do you bother with this superficial, irrelevent tabloid rubbish?

  277. WeWantPaul

    Smithe @ 4020

    I wish it was that narrow. It is so deeply entrenched people who would normally try to stay neutral (say because their job description includes influencing govt) are openly mocking the govt.

  278. Rex Douglas

    Lying – we’ve all done, to a certain degree, so who are we to throw stones

    Who cares if Howard lied, or didn’t lie – who cares if Gillard lied, or didn’t lie – no big deal to me – media propaganda tool

    For politicians, it’s what they’ve achieved – it’s the reform they’ve implemented that counts – the big picture

  279. zoomster

    So the Ruddialists are saying that the real point of the ‘Carr Affair’ is that someone in caucus leaked.

    In other words, either:

    1. Kevin and his followers were lying when they said they would unite behind Gillard, and are treacherously undermining the elected leader of their party contrary to their public utterances;

    OR

    2. Kevin was perfectly sincere about not undermining the PM, but is unable to command the respect of his followers.

    Given those two options, I really think, if I were in Ruddenial, I’d be blaming the media.

  280. Mod Lib

    [Got wind of what exactly?]

    How did the media find out Gillard had spoken to Carr?

    How did the media find out Carr had been offered the FM position (whoever made the offer)?

    All of this could only have come from the ALP….the leaking continues.

    You contend that the Australian is making up the report that Carr answered “yes” to the question whether he was offered the FM position. Fine, lets wait for more information, we all know more will come with this ALP and the various unhappy components thereof

  281. poroti

    imacca

    [Wow. Must be something in the water in N.Z.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/winston-peters-ejected-from-parliament/story-fn3dxity-1226286530586

    Mr Peters is the first MP to be kicked out of the debating chamber this term.

    How many have been chucked out of ours in the last week??]
    That and the speaker takes no shit from anyone. Last year he turfed a cabinet minister for not stopping speaking immediately the speaker stood up. He said in wtte tough titties if he did not see him stand up, dems da rules.

  282. Cuppa

    smithe
    Posted Thursday, March 1, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/02/27/gillard-73-rudd-29/comment-page-80/#comment-1184180

    [Its just good news that the media (since 4C I think) are cottoning on to the fact that you cannot take anything Gillard says at face value- look for the deception.

    ______

    You sir are a complete wangker. She’s probably one of the straightest PMs we’ve ever had, honesty wise.

    Recall that during the recent leadership ructions she released all journos from any and all ethical obligations to keep her as a source mute, and invited them to ask each other whether she’d ever said a disloyal word to any of them about Rudd when he was PM. You could hear the crickets.

    Then, when she invited Rudd to do the same, he effectively took the Fifth.

    As for you boys Howard and Abbott, they run on lies. Not the unleaded kind, but ful-strength porkies.

    Abbott admits it and Howard, well, look no further than WMD’s, Children Overboard and the AWB fiasco. That plonker used to pull his Government into the Propaganda Station every morning and fill ‘er-up with untruths for the days politicking.

    And you’ve got the cheek to come along here and tell us Gillard is a liar and unfit for office?

    Oh puhleeeeeeze.]

    Right-Wing Projection, Smithe. Right-wingers projecting their own behavior / motives onto their opponents. It comes as instinctively to RWers as breathing.

    Take, for another example, this character, who popularised the term “Juliar”…

    http://www.news.com.au/national/police-baffled-by-alan-jones-claim-convoy-of-no-confidence-trucks-stopped-at-act-border/story-e6frfkvr-1226119691411

  283. confessions

    [Ruddenial]

    😆

    Great term. Thanks zoomster!

  284. deblonay

    French Socialists to hit the Super Rich
    ____________________
    If they win the coming election(and kick out the poisoned dwarf..Sarkosy)the Socialists are planning a Suoer Tax on the SuperRich…of 75% on very high incomes
    WOW How would Abbot like that tax on Palmer and Forrest and Reinhardt and the likes

    The Curtin Govt did something like that during WW2

  285. Oscar

    [ All of this could only have come from the ALP….the leaking continues.

    You contend that the Australian is making up the report that Carr answered “yes” to the question whether he was offered the FM position. Fine, lets wait for more information, we all know more will come with this ALP and the various unhappy components thereof ]

    So the story is about “leaks” now? Not about who said what to whom? Is this the new party line now – “We can’t lay a glove on Gillard, she’s too clever – so let’s undermine her by claiming that someone is undermining her, and implying that it’s Rudd!”?

    And by the way, I believe Bob Carr has denied he had been offered the FM position by Julia. Are you claiming he is also lying? After admitting that you actually know F*** all about any of it?

    What’s left of your shamaham arguments now?

  286. Thomas Paine

    [2. Kevin was perfectly sincere about not undermining the PM, but is unable to command the respect of his followers.]

    And a myriad of other possibilities. By all means blame Rudd, it is become a standing joke as the public that this ‘it is all Rudd’s fault’ is a load of bs.

  287. BK

    Go and have a look at george’s latest effort.
    tinyurl.com/7ape73w

  288. ShowsOn

    Bob Carr would make a good minister for Foreign Affairs.

  289. Oscar

    [ Go and have a look at george’s latest effort.
    tinyurl.com/7ape73w ]

    Oooh! I like it!

    May the Farce be with you!

  290. the spectator

    [You contend that the Australian is making up the report that Carr answered “yes” to the question whether he was offered the FM position. Fine, lets wait for more information, we all know more will come with this ALP and the various unhappy components thereof]

    Impossible as that question was never asked of Carr. he was told he would be “considered” for the position which is very different from being “offered”. But that is only a minor fact in this complete fabrication of a story by a thoroughly discredited “news” organisation ofcourse.

  291. zoomster

    I am not blaming Rudd – I am pointing out the logical consequences of assuming the story is the result of an internal leak.

    IF it was, then the obvious assumption is that it came from the Rudd camp (applying the ‘who benefits’ rule).

    My own opinion, for what it’s worth, based on my knowledge of the way the party works, is that the decision is purely NSW Labor’s, and they would be the first to kick and scream blue murder if there was even a hint that the PM usurped one of their few real powers.

    And no Labor PM, knowing this, would go beyond merely indicating – after the event – whether the choice was acceptable to them.

  292. the spectator

    [Bob Carr would make a good minister for Foreign Affairs.]

    On what basis? For starters the man is good mates with Henry Kissenger who many consider to be akin to a war criminal. secondly he left the state of NSW as a complete shambles decaying infrastructure etc.

  293. Gorgeous Dunny

    3955 smithe
    [Ellis is an un-reconstructed Ruddista who has had at least one excruciatingly maudlin and boring paean to Rudd published on The Drum website in the last 12 months. Fair dinkum, it read like a print version of Don Mclean’s The Day the Music Died, dedicated to The Great Man hisself.]

    I was drawn to his blog by the mention here. He has turned off Rudd in a big way: likened him to that Doc Martin character on TV, and suggested that he had aspergers. But it hasn’t converted him to Gillard. Most of his other writings don’t make much sense – so the Ruddistas shouldn’t take much offense from it.

    He is unreconstructed in regarding Beazley as a hero and the saviour of the Labor party. It is there that he loses me. As likeable as he may have been, I have come to the conclusion that Beazley’s leadership was a major liability for the Labor party throughout the Howard years. As is clear in the Latham Diaries, not only did he run away from the economic legacy of Hawke and Keating, he hardly developed any major policies relying instead on an evening news style point-scoring and fighting yesterday’s battles (GST).

    Ironically, the very time he could have gone negative with success was in the 1998 campaign. But he chose the GST (with no alternative plan) and ignored Reith’s attack on the waterside workers with scab labor and bottom-of-the-harbor companies employing people. A simple campaign on ‘How safe is your job?’ with shots of those masked thugs and dogs, plus Howard and Reith shaking hands and backslapping would have cut through. He didn’t lose by much anyway.

    If Bob really feels that way, I don’t think there’s much hope. Such a wordsmith at his best, too, but always erratic.

  294. Oscar

    [ Bob Carr would make a good minister for Foreign Affairs. ]

    Showie! Get with the program! It is not about how good he would be, it is about how Julia lied!!!! Or at least confused Dennis Shamaham – which must be the same thing!!!. Or something.